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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on September 04, 2013, 01:06:05 AM
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Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten.
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Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten.
'Sent packing' ?
I don't understand ... the McCanns were able to 'sack' policemen who displeased them ?
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Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten.
On the 5th of May there were 6 PO from the LC present in PDL : the inspectors Caroline Burrows, Eleanor Johnson, Michael Graham, Neil Holden, Jim Mc Garvey and Stephen Markley.
Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 7-14
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On the 5th of May there were 6 PO from the LC present in PDL : the inspectors Caroline Burrows, Eleanor Johnson, Michael Graham, Neil Holden, Jim Mc Garvey and Stephen Markley.
Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 7-14
A British child was reported missing in Portugal on the the 4th of May ... and by the 5th of May six police officers from her home locality had already been shipped out and had arrived in Portugal ?
Is that normal procedure ?
This case is astonishing in so many ways
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'Sent packing' ?
I don't understand ... the McCanns were able to 'sack' policemen who displeased them ?
They weren't sacked. They were sent home.
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A British child was reported missing in Portugal on the the 4th of May ... and by the 5th of May six police officers from her home locality had already been shipped out and had arrived in Portugal ?
Is that normal procedure ?
This case is astonishing in so many ways
Somewhat bizarre wasn't it Ica??
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Somewhat bizarre wasn't it Ica??
More than bizarre ... it is inexplicable
Less than 24 hours after a child is reported missing abroad a considerable amount of police man-power is already on the move ... it makes no sense given that she might have been found at any moment, injured perhaps, but hopefully alive
Why on earth would six officers from Leicester police be sent to Portugal within hours ?
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Why should this be considered "bizarre," or even unusual? There was a British child reported missing abroard - she was either abducted as the parents claimed, or the parents were involved in some kind of infanticide. Of course the police from her home county were going to be intensely interested in the investigation into whatever crime had been committed, as it was clear within 24 hours that she hadn't just woken and wandered off somewhere.
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A British child was reported missing in Portugal on the the 4th of May ... and by the 5th of May six police officers from her home locality had already been shipped out and had arrived in Portugal ?
Is that normal procedure ?
This case is astonishing in so many ways
Fascinating, icabod.
Do we know if there are any prior examples of this kind of thing? Chinagirl?
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I have no idea about any other examples, but of one thing I am confident, and that is that those officers from Leicester Constabulary were there in PdL with the sanction of the Portuguese authorities. They didn't just arrive without invitation and muscle in on the investigation.
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More than bizarre ... it is inexplicable
Less than 24 hours after a child is reported missing abroad a considerable amount of police man-power is already on the move ... it makes no sense given that she might have been found at any moment, injured perhaps, but hopefully alive
Why on earth would six officers from Leicester police be sent to Portugal within hours ?
Icabod, The abduction happened on May 3rd; the police arrived May 5th. Please do not exaggerate. Less than 48 hours is fine, but NOT less than 24 hours.
OK so why did police come so early and in such numbers?
Maybe because Gordon Brown came from Glasgow like Gerry? Maybe because Gerry was an active member of the Labour Party (i believe)? There was talk that Gerry was in one of the Government "think tanks", but I am not sure if that was true.
Maybe they knew each other?
The Mccann family are go-getters. Bet it wasn't long before Gordon Brown knew ... and got things moving.
Direct interest from the Chancellor would cause ripples and some action pretty quickly by the Leicestershire Police.
Have no idea how many Officers would normally go out on such a case ... and I doubt ChinaGirl would have either. We are not members of the Police Force
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Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten.
Your only source for the sent packing story is Amaral, a convicted liar. I think that says it all.
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Your only source for the sent packing story is Amaral, a convicted liar. I think that says it all.
It could also be true.
Have you considered that possibility ?
Have the Mccanns told any lies ?
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Does Amaral say that it was the McCanns - specifically Kate - who "sent [the officers] packing?"
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Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten.
Where is it recorded in the files?
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On the 5th of May there were 6 PO from the LC present in PDL : the inspectors Caroline Burrows, Eleanor Johnson, Michael Graham, Neil Holden, Jim Mc Garvey and Stephen Markley.
Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 7-14
I don't see anything that says that they all arived on May 5.
Statement by Jim McGarvey
In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers.
Statement by: Stephen Markley
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers.
The others just say that they were sent out in 2007.
In 2007 in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was sent to Portugal in the official role of liaison officer to the McCann family.
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Has anyone worked out who the two police officers were who were sent home for daring to suggest that Kate McCann knew where her daughter was located?
Looks very like the Met were having their strings pulled by Downing St.
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Has anyone worked out who the two police officers were who were sent home for daring to suggest that Kate McCann knew where her daughter was located?
Nope.
Kate did say in her book that she blew her top at FLOs at not organising an interpreter when they'd said they were frustrated that they'd spent the day not understanding what was going on as they didn't have anyone to interpret for them. (p. 114)
However, I've never seen anything to suggest that they were sent packing. How long would FLOs stay on a foreign assignment? There might have been a rotation of two at a time, which would seem more logical and would tie in with the fact that only two stated that they were there on the evening of 5 May.
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Nope.
Kate did say in her book that she blew her top at FLOs at not organising an interpreter when they'd said they were frustrated that they'd spent the day not understanding what was going on as they didn't have anyone to interpret for them. (p. 114)
However, I've never seen anything to suggest that they were sent packing. How long would FLOs stay on a foreign assignment? There might have been a rotation of two at a time, which would seem more logical and would tie in with the fact that only two stated that they were there on the evening of 5 May.
Do you really seriously believe km told the whole truth and never lied at all ?
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Nothing indicates that the 6 PO were or weren't together in PDL. Between the 23th and the 25th of April 2008 they made 6 stereotyped statements mentioning "in 2007" and answering negatively to the same unique question :
I am police officer ... of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.
In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.
According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My reply to the question was: No.
By chance two of the six PO felt they had something to add (nobody seems to have asked any of them whether they had something else to say) and mention the date of their observations (extremely similar).
Stephen Markley added :
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
And Jim Garvey added :
In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.
I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared. Kate asked herself whether this fact could have any relation with Madeleine’s disappearance.
Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.
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Nothing indicates that the 6 PO were or weren't together in PDL. Between the 23th and the 25th of April 2008 they made 6 stereotyped statements mentioning "in 2007" and answering negatively to the same unique question :
I am police officer ... of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.
In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.
According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My reply to the question was: No.
By chance two of the six PO felt they had something to add (nobody seems to have asked any of them whether they had something else to say) and mention the date of their observations (extremely similar).
Stephen Markley added :
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
And Jim Garvey added :
In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.
I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared. Kate asked herself whether this fact could have any relation with Madeleine’s disappearance.
Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.
But just further up you'd stated this as fact.
On the 5th of May there were 6 PO from the LC present in PDL : the inspectors Caroline Burrows, Eleanor Johnson, Michael Graham, Neil Holden, Jim Mc Garvey and Stephen Markley.
Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 7-14
I wondered if you'd found something other than the 6 statements to substantiate that all 6 FLOs were there on 5 May, as I hadn't.
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Has anyone worked out who the two police officers were who were sent home for daring to suggest that Kate McCann knew where her daughter was located?
Looks very like the Met were having their strings pulled by Downing St.
That may well be the conclusion that one is supposed to reach. 8(0(*
For the moment, I've filed "sent packing" just after "satellites"...
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Do you really seriously believe km told the whole truth and never lied at all ?
I do. She may not have got everything right or been completely accurate in her recall - as memories are not tape recorders. However I don't believe either the McCanns nor any of their friends ever deliberately lied.
If the McCanns had wanted to they could have lied about what Madeleine said to them on the morning of the 3rd about her and Sean crying - even though it left themselves open to criticism. They told the police about that episode because they thought that maybe the abductor had been in 5a the night before. However, they could just as easily have said Madeleine told them she'd had a nasty dream about seeing a man in her room - or something similar. But they didn't.
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Something at the back of my mind is saying that the 'Social Worker' asked Kate where Madeleine was. I will have to dig it out.
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Something at the back of my mind is saying that the 'Social Worker' asked Kate where Madeleine was. I will have to dig it out.
I doubt whether a Family Liaison officer would ask such a question Lace. They were there to 'befriend' the McCanns not interrogate them. They would also observe their behaviour and I would presume report back to their superiors in Leicester.
Apparently none of the FLO's observed any suspicious behaviour, unlike in the Shannon Matthews case when it was the FLO who first noticed that the mother's behaviour was not the behaviour of someone whose child had gone missing and reported her observations to her superior officer - which ultimately led to Karen Matthews arrest.
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I doubt whether a Family Liaison officer would ask such a question Lace. They were there to 'befriend' the McCanns not interrogate them. They would also observe their behaviour and I would presume report back to their superiors in Leicester.
Apparently none of the FLO's observed any suspicious behaviour, unlike in the Shannon Matthews case when it was the FLO who first noticed that the mother's behaviour was not the behaviour of someone whose child had gone missing and reported her observations to her superior officer - which ultimately led to Karen Matthews arrest.
But then again Karen Matthews wasn't very bright, was she ?
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The introduction of the cadaver dogs is all the evidence anyone needs to prove that the British police agreed with their Portuguese counterparts.
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But then again Karen Matthews wasn't very bright, was she ?
8@??)(
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But just further up you'd stated this as fact.
On the 5th of May there were 6 PO from the LC present in PDL : the inspectors Caroline Burrows, Eleanor Johnson, Michael Graham, Neil Holden, Jim Mc Garvey and Stephen Markley.
Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 7-14
I wondered if you'd found something other than the 6 statements to substantiate that all 6 FLOs were there on 5 May, as I hadn't.
Have you found something indicating they weren't together ?
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But then again Karen Matthews wasn't very bright, was she ?
And the McCanns are not Oscar winning actors. If they were such geniuses that they pulled the wool over the eyes of highly trained FLO's and also the very experienced trauma counsellor Alan Pike, amongst others - they would not be doctors - they'd be using their amazing talent to earn a fortune in Hollywood - and Gerry would not be peddling to work on a pushbike. IMHO of course.
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And the McCanns are not Oscar winning actors. If they were such geniuses that they pulled the wool over the eyes of highly trained FLO's and also the very experienced trauma counsellor Alan Pike, amongst others - they would not be doctors - they'd be using their amazing talent to earn a fortune in Hollywood - and Gerry would not be peddling to work on a pushbike. IMHO of course.
I think it would be hard, even for an experienced police officer, to tell the difference between the grief displayed by a parent whose child is dead and one whose child is missing.
And as to Gerry riding a bike to work, do you really think he does that to save money ? @)(++(*
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Have you found something indicating they weren't together ?
I was wondering if you'd found something in the files that would have substantiated that they were, as you stated it as fact.
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I think it would be hard, even for an experienced police officer, to tell the difference between the grief displayed by a parent whose child is dead and one whose child is missing.
And as to Gerry riding a bike to work, do you really think he does that to save money ? @)(++(*
If they were so devastated and grief-stricken by their daughter's death then they would not have been able to dispose of her body as if it was no more important to them than an inconvenient sack of rubbish. To do that they would have to be psychopaths - and those sort of people cannot naturally show empathy or sorrow and have no conscience - and can only ACT as if they have. They would eventually have been sussed out by the FLO's and the trauma counsellor IMO.
IMO people who seek a lavish lifestyle - as it is often claimed the McCanns do - would not contemplate anything less than a classy car to ride around in. A Jaguar perhaps?
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But then again Karen Matthews wasn't very bright, was she ?
You can't be suggesting that the FLOs weren't bright enough to notice if the McCanns had displayed suspicious behaviour, surely?
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If they were so devastated and grief-stricken by their daughter's death then they would not have been able to dispose of her body as if it was no more important to them than an inconvenient sack of rubbish. To do that they would have to be psychopaths - and those sort of people cannot naturally show empathy or sorrow and have no conscience - and can only ACT as if they have. They would eventually have been sussed out by the FLO's and the trauma counsellor IMO.
IMO people who seek a lavish lifestyle - as it is often claimed the McCanns do - would not contemplate anything less than a classy car to ride around in. A Jaguar perhaps?
I think the McCanns had a "people carrier". A Jaguar would cost quite a lot to buy and run, so unlikely to be affordable on a doctors salary.
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Your only source for the sent packing story is Amaral, a convicted liar. I think that says it all.
From a link.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
km's diaries.
'MONDAY, MAY 14: I slept well last night after a not very good end of the day, frustration with the FLO (Portuguese police family liaison officer) asking me where would my little M be.'
Now was this just the Portuguese officer, or were UK representatives there as well ?
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I think it would be hard, even for an experienced police officer, to tell the difference between the grief displayed by a parent whose child is dead and one whose child is missing.
Psychologists say pain tends to calm down in the first case and increase in the second.
But it is generally speaking because much depends on variables like how the child died or went missing.
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If they were so devastated and grief-stricken by their daughter's death then they would not have been able to dispose of her body as if it was no more important to them than an inconvenient sack of rubbish. To do that they would have to be psychopaths - and those sort of people cannot naturally show empathy or sorrow and have no conscience - and can only ACT as if they have. They would eventually have been sussed out by the FLO's and the trauma counsellor IMO.
Isn't that where Bundleman came in?
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2nd paragraph of OP, Angelo:
"According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten."
Is there any credible evidence that it took place at all?
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2nd paragraph of OP, Angelo:
"According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten."
Is there any credible evidence that it took place at all?
and if did ?
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From a link.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
km's diaries.
'MONDAY, MAY 14: I slept well last night after a not very good end of the day, frustration with the FLO (Portuguese police family liaison officer) asking me where would my little M be.'
Now was this just the Portuguese officer, or were UK representatives there as well ?
Well as it says Portuguese police family liaison officer I think its fair to assume hes Portuguese. So amaral wrong again.
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I think the part in brackets has been added by the newspaper, as was the part was about Cherie Blair being the PMs wife. I can't imagine Kate having to remind herself of both those facts ( unless it was writen for public consumption ).
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I think the part in brackets has been added by the newspaper, as was the part was about Cherie Blair being the PMs wife. I can't imagine Kate having to remind herself of both those facts ( unless the was writen for public consumption ).
Ricardo Paiva was her PT FLO at some point, wasn't he? If so, when did this happen? I haven't found anything to verify when this actually occurred, nor whether UK and PT FLOs were contemporaneous at some point.
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Your assumption is that Amaral is wrong.
It doesn't mean it was. >@@(*&)
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Ricardo Paiva was her PT FLO at some point, wasn't he? If so, when did this happen? I haven't found anything to verify when this actually occurred, nor whether UK and PT FLOs were contemporaneous at some point.
Yes he was, and ceased to be after the McCanns were made arguidos.
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and if did ?
Come up with some credible source that this incident actually occured. In the absence of that, no point in discussing further. The ball is in your court Stephen.
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Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten.
I think you slightly altered what Amaral say's. He doesn't mention anyone "sent packing"
According to Amaral,
I had worked with Glen on several cases of violent crime or linked to organised crime; I was aware of his skills, his great capacity for work, his kindness and his modesty. Our relationship went beyond that of a simple professional connection. I was a bit worried when he told me that he wouldn't be around a few days later. He had a lot to do.
On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, were, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.
Curiously, the English do not consider it expedient to disclose the incident and the PJ are not informed. Myself, I only learn of it indirectly. Finally, a solution is found quickly: the two men are replaced by a Portuguese man who speaks fluent English.
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I think you slightly altered what Amaral say's. He doesn't mention anyone "sent packing"
According to Amaral,
I had worked with Glen on several cases of violent crime or linked to organised crime; I was aware of his skills, his great capacity for work, his kindness and his modesty. Our relationship went beyond that of a simple professional connection. I was a bit worried when he told me that he wouldn't be around a few days later. He had a lot to do.
On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, were, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.
Curiously, the English do not consider it expedient to disclose the incident and the PJ are not informed. Myself, I only learn of it indirectly. Finally, a solution is found quickly: the two men are replaced by a Portuguese man who speaks fluent English.
' The officer will be sent packing'.
You can read, can't you ?
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I'm lost. Exactly which officer was supposed to have been "sent packing"?
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' The officer will be sent packing'.
You can read, can't you ?
OOPS, Sorry. appointment made at Dolland
Glen Power wasn't sent packing, though, he had a lot to do!
As not one Liason Officer mentions anyone asking Kate, where Madeleine is or going packing, I don't believe it!
So who else is left besides Paiva?
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LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE FORCE
05-Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 9 - 10
cr5_9
cr5_10
Statement by: Stephen Markley
Occupation: Police Officer
This statement (composed of 2 pages and signed by me) is true and in accordance with my understanding.
Date: 25th April 2008
Signature____________________________________________________
I am police officer Markley of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.
In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.
According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My reply to the question was: No.
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
TRANSLATIONS BY INES
05-Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Pages 11-12
cr5_11
cr5_12
Witness Statement
Statement by Jim McGarvey
This statement consisting of two pages is true and consistent with my understanding.
Date: 25th April 2008
I am police Inspector McGarvey of the Leicestershire police force, currently based in the criminal unit.
In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation carried out into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of communication officer for the family.
In accordance with the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during various contacts that could raise any suspicion that they could have had any knowledge of what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators.
My reply to the question: No.
In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.
I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared. Kate asked herself whether this fact could have any relation with Madeleine’s disappearance.
Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my knowledge.
TRANSLATIONS BY INES
05-Cartas Rogatorias Vol 5 Page 8
cr5_8
LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE FORCE
Witness Statement by Caroline Burrows
Occupation: Police Officer
This statement, consisting of two pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief
Date: 23 April 2008
Signature:
I am police inspector 4186 Caroline Burrows of the Leicestershire police, currently based in the criminal unit.
In 2007 in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was sent to Portugal in the official role of liaison officer to the McCann family.
According to the letters of request from the Portuguese police, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.
TRANSLATIONS BY INES
05-CARTAS ROGATORIAS 5 Page 7
cr5_7
Witness Statement by Eleanor Johnson
Occupation: Detective DC 4356
This statement, consisting of one page, signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief .
Date: 22 April 2008
Signature:
I am police inspector 4356 Johnson of the Leicestershire police, currently based in the criminal unit.
In 2007 in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was sent to Portugal in the official role of liaison officer to the McCann family.
According to the Letters of Request from the Portuguese police, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.
TRANSLATIONS BY INES
05-Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Page 13
cr5_14
LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE FORCE
Witness Statement by Michael Graham
Occupation: Police Officer
This statement, consisting of one page, signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief .
Date: 21 April 2008
Signature:
I am police inspector 1127 Graham of the Leicestershire police, currently based in the criminal unit.
In 2007 in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was sent to Portugal in the official role of liaison officer to the McCann family.
According to the Letters of Request from the Portuguese police, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is in accordance with my understanding.
TRANSLATIONS BY INES
05-Cartas Rogatorias Vol V Page 13
cr5_13
LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE FORCE
Witness Statement by Neil Holden
Occupation: Police Officer
This statement, consisting of one page, signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief .
Date: 25 April 2008
Signature:
I am police inspector 607 Holden of the Leicestershire police, currently based in the criminal unit.
In 2007 in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was sent to Portugal in the official role of liaison officer to the McCann family.
According to the Letters of Request from the Portuguese police, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is in accordance with my understanding.
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@ DCI
I looked at all of that.
I can't find anything to substantiate that anyone was "sent packing" (which, in common parlance, would be interpreted as being dismissed with immediate effect).
Unless it was yet another misunderstanding of people who had gone to pack their bags prior to catching a pre-arranged flight back.
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A reminder of the OP:
"Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten."
Maybe this is something else that Amaral "Misremembered" whilst writing his book.
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If someone could provide an indication of the chapter or approximate page number - it could be checked against a potential translation error.
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A reminder of the OP:
"Several British police officers spent time in Praia da Luz after Madeleine's disappearance. The first to arrive was British Embassy liaison officer Glen Power on 5th May. His brief was to facilitate communication between the two police forces. Two days later a further two British police officers arrived, one being Bob Small from Leicestershire Police, whose function was to act as support officers between the McCanns and the Portuguese investigators. Other officers arrive from Scotland Yard including specialists and technicians.
According to Mr Amaral, an 'incident' occurred on 14th May when Kate McCann was asked by one of the highly experienced British liaison police officers as to where Madeleine was. The question did not go down well, the officer and his colleague were sent packing back to England having only been there a week. The two officers are later replaced by a Portuguese speaker.
Curiously, the incident has been conveniently forgotten."
Maybe this is something else that Amaral "Misremembered" whilst writing his book.
Just as Kate 'misremembered' telling a police officer of her concerns over the twins, yet not one officer, translator or friend mentions her doing any such thing
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Just as Kate 'misremembered' telling a police officer of her concerns over the twins, yet not one officer, translator or friend mentions her doing any such thing
What are you referring to, Faith?
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Icabod, The abduction happened on May 3rd; the police arrived May 5th. Please do not exaggerate. Less than 48 hours is fine, but NOT less than 24 hours.
OK so why did police come so early and in such numbers?
Maybe because Gordon Brown came from Glasgow like Gerry? Maybe because Gerry was an active member of the Labour Party (i believe)? There was talk that Gerry was in one of the Government "think tanks", but I am not sure if that was true.
Maybe they knew each other?
The Mccann family are go-getters. Bet it wasn't long before Gordon Brown knew ... and got things moving.
Direct interest from the Chancellor would cause ripples and some action pretty quickly by the Leicestershire Police.
Have no idea how many Officers would normally go out on such a case ... and I doubt ChinaGirl would have either. We are not members of the Police Force
By the 5th of May six police officers from Leicester were in Portugal
The child had gone missing as night fell on the 3rd and any action by Leicester police would not have begun until the morning of the 4th ( unless you believe Gordon Brown was so close to Gerry McCann that he was on the phone during the night, waking up sleeping senior officers as if it were some kind of national emergency )
During that day ( when everyone was expecting the child either to be discovered, possibly trapped or injured, or sadly for a little body to be found ) Leicester police were urgently arranging flights, accomodation, re-organising work loads, and cancelling leave so that six officers could go to Portugal straight away
By 8pm on the 5th they were in the McCann's apartment, where, less than 48 hours before the
missing child had, according to her parents, been safely tucked up in bed
It is not just the speed and urgency with which the British police acted, it is the 'foresight' ... I mean, the child had beed been missing for one night when arrangements were made for the six officers to be deployed, and she could have turned up at any moment
I don't see how anyone can think the response from Leicester police was remotely what might normally be expected in the case of a British child having been missing for less than 24 hours in a European country where the police were already investigating
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By the 5th of May six police officers from Leicester were in Portugal
The child had gone missing as night fell on the 3rd and any action by Leicester police would not have begun until the morning of the 4th ( unless you believe Gordon Brown was so close to Gerry McCann that he was on the phone during the night, waking up sleeping senior officers as if it were some kind of national emergency )
During that day ( when everyone was expecting the child either to be discovered, possibly trapped or injured, or sadly for a little body to be found ) Leicester police were urgently arranging flights, accomodation, re-organising work loads, and cancelling leave so that six officers could go to Portugal straight away
By 8pm on the 5th they were in the McCann's apartment, where, less than 48 hours before the
missing child had, according to her parents, been safely tucked up in bed
It is not just the speed and urgency with which the British police acted, it is the 'foresight' ... I mean, the child had beed been missing for one night when arrangements were made for the six officers to be deployed, and she could have turned up at any moment
I don't see how anyone can think the response from Leicester police was remotely what might normally be expected in the case of a British child having been missing for less than 24 hours in a European country where the police were already investigating
The British Embassy already knew about The Cipriano Affair, and The Michael Cook Affair. More than enough reason if you ask me.
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What are you referring to, Faith?
From Kate's book :
'On the night Madeleine was taken, you may remember, Gerry and I had been very concerned that Sean and Amelie had hardly moved in their cots, let alone woken up, despite the commotion in the apartment. Since Madeleine was snatched apparently without making a sound, we had always suspected that all three children might have been sedated by the abductor. We mentioned this to the police that night and several more times in the following weeks, but no testing of urine, blood or hair, which could have revealed the presence of drugs, had ever been done'
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Amaral didn't want to share Kate's fingerprints results, with Stuart Prior. I wonder why when he was part of the investigation.
He had UK investigators every move followed, then he doesn't want to discuss, what I would have thought, they are obliged to let them know.
Even Murat knew he was being followed, so I'm sure the UK police would have noticed @)(++(*
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I thought it was the 'social worker' who asked Kate where her daughter was?
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I thought it was the 'social worker' who asked Kate where her daughter was?
Not as far as I can see, Lace.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
Paiva is the only one, that seems to have said this to Kate!
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Just as Kate 'misremembered' telling a police officer of her concerns over the twins, yet not one officer, translator or friend mentions her doing any such thing
Try again:
Statement by: Stephen Markley
Occupation: Police Officer
This statement (composed of 2 pages and signed by me) is true and in accordance with my understanding.
Date: 25th April 2008
Signature
I am police officer Markley of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.
In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.
According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described tothe Portuguese investigators?
My reply to the question was: No.
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine’s revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
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Try again:
Statement by: Stephen Markley
Occupation: Police Officer
This statement (composed of 2 pages and signed by me) is true and in accordance with my understanding.
Date: 25th April 2008
Signature
I am police officer Markley of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.
In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.
According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described tothe Portuguese investigators?
My reply to the question was: No.
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine’s revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
And on the night of the third of May when, Kate claims, she raised the subject with a police officer ?
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And on the night of the third of May when, Kate claims, she raised the subject with a police officer ?
Nothing in the files.
Thanks to Stephen Markley and Jim McGarvey, we know that the McCanns just wanted to know whether the PJ had found evidence in the children's bedroom (they don't seem to have analysed the parents' room). Nothing more.
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It is very obvious that those identical statements by the English police officers were carefully worded in order to give as little as possible away as to what their actual thoughts were.
Having had another read through Señor Amaral's book again I noted he made reference to one of the English bobbies taking off his Madeleine armband when he realised what the evidence actually amounted to.
Were the English cops actually convinced of their guilt too?
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I meant to mention this before when the subject of the doping was discussed on another thread. Both the McCanns are qualified medical doctors. If they were so concerned about the possibility of the twins being doped why didn't they arrange for independent testing?
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It is very obvious that those identical statements by the English police officers were carefully worded in order to give as little as possible away as to what their actual thoughts were.
Having had another read through Señor Amaral's book again I noted he made reference to one of the English bobbies taking off his Madeleine armband when he realised what the evidence actually amounted to.
Were the English cops actually convinced of their guilt too?
Those statements were simply the 'condensed' impression they had of the McCanns. I think it's obvious that very detailed reports of their observations would have been submitted by the FLO's to their bosses back in Leicester, and are part of the files that we have not seen - but SY have.
I don't think the officer who removed his armband did that for any other reason than it was inappropriate for a policeman to wear it - as the case had not yet been solved.
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Those statements were simply the 'condensed' impression they had of the McCanns. I think it's obvious that very detailed reports of their observations would have been submitted by the FLO's to their bosses back in Leicester, and are part of the files that we have not seen - but SY have.
I don't think the officer who removed his armband did that for any other reason than it was inappropriate for a policeman to wear it - as the case had not yet been solved.
He chose to wear it at the outset but removed it. What changed?
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I meant to mention this before when the subject of the doping was discussed on another thread. Both the McCanns are qualified medical doctors. If they were so concerned about the possibility of the twins being doped why didn't they arrange for independent testing?
The Liaison officers don't mention sedation of the twins but of Madeleine in order to take her more easily. As doctors the McCanns could have insisted Madeleine couldn't have been taken without being heavily sedated and that a proper sedation would leave traces on the bedding. Madeleine's one was analysed and revealed nothing. But what if Madeleine disappeared from her parents' bed ?
The concern about the twins came later. As Icabodcrane once said, why lose time sedating sleeping children that you don't intend to steal ?
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He chose to wear it at the outset but removed it. What changed?
I can only speculate that he wore it because he believed Madeleine had been abducted. However, as a policeman he would be required to put his personal opinions to one side and look at the case from the point of view that it had not been solved and until it was - no assumptions of innocence should be made. I don't have a problem with that John - as IMO the first thing the PJ should have done was look at the parents and rule them in or out - before they did anything else. Although how Amaral could come to the firm conclusions which he did come to about the parents - when he never met them or spoke to them is a mystery to me.
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He would have observed them behind the glass or on CCTV in the interview room. It is quite normal for senior officers to keep in the background and leave the interrogations to more junior officers.
Remember that Señor Amaral was the equivalent of a Detective Superintendent in the UK. He was the coordinator, it was not his job to interview witnesses or suspects.
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He would have observed them behind the glass or on CCTV in the interview room. It is quite normal for senior officers to keep in the background and leave the interrogations to more junior officers.
Remember that Señor Amaral was the equivalent of a Detective Superintendent in the UK. He was the coordinator, it was not his job to interview witnesses or suspects.
I'm sure Amaral would have mentioned it if they had rooms with 2-way mirrors. If Amaral sees nothing wrong in the fact that he never met or spoke to the McCanns then why does he go to such lengths to hide that fact in his book? Unless you happened to know beforehand that he'd never spoken to them, there is no way anyone reading his book would realise that was the case.
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I'm sure Amaral would have mentioned it if they had rooms with 2-way mirrors. If Amaral sees nothing wrong in the fact that he never met or spoke to the McCanns then why does he go to such lengths to hide that fact in his book? Unless you happened to know beforehand that he'd never spoken to them, there is no way anyone reading his book would realise that was the case.
He didn't need to speak to them to know what was going on. That is what detectives are employed to do, interview and report.
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He would have observed them behind the glass or on CCTV in the interview room. It is quite normal for senior officers to keep in the background and leave the interrogations to more junior officers.
Remember that Señor Amaral was the equivalent of a Detective Superintendent in the UK. He was the coordinator, it was not his job to interview witnesses or suspects.
I seem to recall that at the time they didn't even have tape recording facilities, so CCTV and two way glass may have been undreamed of technology.
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I'm sure Amaral would have mentioned it if they had rooms with 2-way mirrors. If Amaral sees nothing wrong in the fact that he never met or spoke to the McCanns then why does he go to such lengths to hide that fact in his book? Unless you happened to know beforehand that he'd never spoken to them, there is no way anyone reading his book would realise that was the case.
Did the McCanns ever request to speak to Amaral ? Surely if the were truly concerned about the way the case was being handled that is the first thing they would have done ?
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He didn't need to speak to them to know what was going on. That is what detectives are employed to do, interview and report.
I disagree. Any policeman worth his salt would want to meet and speak to the parents - so that he could weigh them up and make his own assessment of them. IMO it was relying on secondhand accounts and other people's opinions that resulted in him getting so many facts wrong in his book. How can you make personal judgements about other people's demeanour or behaviour when you weren't even there to witness it?
IMO It also means that he always had someone else to blame when he got things wrong.......... ''It wasn't me who got it wrong m'lud - I wasn't there - I was told that's what happened'' I suspect that is what his defense will be - if the case goes to court.
He had no trouble talking to Robert Murat when he was taken in and made an arguido.
Pure speculation on my part but as he was made an Arguido on the 4th May in relation to his other Missing child case, I do wonder whether he decided to distance himself from the parents in this case as a self-protection measure. I could be completely wrong about that but I can't think of any other reason why he decided to have no contact whatsoever with the parents this time round.
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I disagree. Any policeman worth his salt would want to meet and speak to the parents - so that he could weigh them up and make his own assessment of them. IMO it was relying on secondhand accounts and other people's opinions that resulted in him getting so many facts wrong in his book. How can you make personal judgements about other people's demeanour or behaviour when you weren't even there to witness it?
IMO It also means that he always had someone else to blame when he got things wrong.......... ''It wasn't me who got it wrong m'lud - I wasn't there - I was told that's what happened'' I suspect that is what his defense will be - if the case goes to court.
He had no trouble talking to Robert Murat when he was taken in and made an arguido.
Pure speculation on my part but as he was made an Arguido on the 4th May in relation to his other Missing child case, I do wonder whether he decided to distance himself from the parents in this case as a self-protection measure. I could be completely wrong about that but I can't think of any other reason why he decided to have no contact whatsoever with the parents this time round.
You obviously don't understand how police investigations work Benice. According to your reckoning Chief Constables are only worth their salt if they personally interview every witness and suspect. @)(++(*
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Did the McCanns ever request to speak to Amaral ? Surely if the were truly concerned about the way the case was being handled that is the first thing they would have done ?
That would have been funny to watch since they cannot speak Portuguese and Mr Amaral cannot speak English.
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You obviously don't understand how police investigations work Benice. According to your reckoning Chief Constables are only worth their salt if they personally interview every witness and suspect. @)(++(*
Chief Constables aren't normally in charge of one specific case are they Angelo? Amaral was the Lead Investigator in the McCann case and was not involved in any other cases at the same time - as far as I know.
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Chief Constables aren't normally in charge of one specific case are they Angelo? Amaral was the Lead Investigator in the McCann case and was not involved in any other cases at the same time - as far as I know.
It isn't the job of a 'coordinator' to interview people. End off!!
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It isn't the job of a 'coordinator' to interview people. End off!!
Mrs McCann's letter to the second coordinator wasn't answered.
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Not as far as I can see, Lace.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
Paiva is the only one, that seems to have said this to Kate!
Sorry, my mistake.
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It isn't the job of a 'coordinator' to interview people. End off!!
In that case he should not have written a book pretending that he HAD interviewed people and that he knew the McCanns well enough on a personal level to make judgements about them. That was so dishonest IMO.
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In that case he should not have written a book pretending that he HAD interviewed people and that he knew the McCanns well enough on a personal level to make judgements about them. That was so dishonest IMO.
Can you point to the passage in Amaral's book where he said he had met the McCanns ?
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Can you point to the passage in Amaral's book where he said he had met the McCanns ?
He said that in an interview, as I suspect you know full well ..,.
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He said that in an interview, as I suspect you know full well ..,.
Then a quote from the interview then ?
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Then a quote from the interview then ?
It was the El Mundo interview:
Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.
A - [Amaral] So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory [that Madeleine fell off it and died]. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
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It was the El Mundo interview:
Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.
A - [Amaral] So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory [that Madeleine fell off it and died]. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
Two-way glass perhaps ?
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Two-way glass perhaps ?
I doubt it. They used old-fashioned typewriters to bash out the interviews.
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I doubt it. They used old-fashioned typewriters to bash out the interviews.
But possible ?
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But possible ?
No.
By Portuguese law, it would be illegal to ask such a question before the McCanns were arguidos and there's no record of that question being asked in the arguido interviews.
Amaral lied.
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No.
By Portuguese law, it would be illegal to ask such a question before the McCanns were arguidos and there's no record of that question being asked in the arguido interviews.
Amaral lied.
The quote doesn't say the McCanns were asked a question. We are told 'we' set out the sofa theory. Kate in her book confirms there was a meeting like this.
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Dr Amaral didn't understand English I understand so his attendance at an interview was unnecessary. His foot soldiers will have reported back to him as to what occurred, they will also have made notes which he would have had access to.
It was the El Mundo interview:
Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.
A - [Amaral] So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory [that Madeleine fell off it and died]. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
When he states "we set out the sofa theory", it does not mean he was there, he is talking in the third person.
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Show me someone who has claimed never to have lied and I will show you a liar?
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Show me someone who has claimed never to have lied and I will show you a liar?
What is A Lie?
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To state that I have a problem is also an insult. I am merely retaliating to your original statement. Or do I have no right to do that, in your opinion?
So you may insult whoever you please, without right to their reply?
So why do you have a problem with standard police procedure across the world, when they observe potential suspects behind one way glass ?
Why does it make you feel ill ?
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There are white lies, black lies, little lies and big lies and many many more but is a lie really a lie?
If "this sentence is false" is true, then the sentence is false, which is a contradiction. Conversely, if "this sentence is false" is false, then the sentence is true, which is also a contradiction...hmm 8-)(--)
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Dr Amaral didn't understand English I understand so his attendance at an interview was unnecessary. His foot soldiers will have reported back to him as to what occurred, they will also have made notes which he would have had access to.
When he states "we set out the sofa theory", it does not mean he was there, he is talking in the third person.
Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
How could anyone not there note a detail like that (other than by not being there and making it up)?
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Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
How could anyone not there note a detail like that (other than by not being there and making it up)?
As I have already said, he could have been viewing the scene through a two way mirror or the scenario could have been described for him by one of his officers.
Ferryman if you have absolute proof that Amaral has claimed at any time to have had a face to face meeting the McCanns then bring it here, otherwise you have no case.
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As I have already said, he could have been viewing the scene through a two way mirror or the scenario could have been described for him by one of his officers.
Ferryman if you have absolute proof that Amaral has claimed at any time to have had a face to face meeting the McCanns then bring it here, otherwise you have no case.
For someone not fluent in English he was doing a remarkably good job of synchronising facial expressions and body language with the flow of the interview.
Especially hearing it through all that glass ...
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For someone not fluent in English he was doing a remarkably good job of synchronising facial expressions and body language with the flow of the interview.
Especially hearing it through all that glass ...
Just answer the question Ferryman. Do you have definitive proof ?
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So why do you have a problem with standard police procedure across the world, when they observe potential suspects behind one way glass ?
Why does it make you feel ill ?
Because it is creepy when he went out of his way never to confront The McCanns face to face. He would have been spying on them for his own ends, which he then proceeded to use to make money. If you can't see a problem with that then you have a problem.
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Just answer the question Ferryman. Do you have definitive proof ?
I've often wondered what language this conversation between Amaral and Prior was conducted in where Amaral contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results.
Is Prior fluent in Portuguese, do we know?
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Because it is creepy when he went out of his way never to confront The McCanns face to face. He would have been spying on them for his own ends, which he then proceeded to use to make money. If you can't see a problem with that then you have a problem.
..... removed ..... As Stephen said, it is accepted police practice the world over.
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I've often wondered what language this conversation between Amaral and Prior was conducted in where Amaral contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results.
Is Prior fluent in Portuguese, do we know?
Amaral understands and speaks English. It can be said he doesn't, till the cows come home, but I am assured he can. From a very good English source, who has interviewed him, and his wife 8((()*/
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Thank you Eleanor. So that Amaral watched the meeting through a two-way mirror or similar is a possibility and therefore it is presumptive for you, or anyone else, to claim he lied.
I don't believe for a second that he did that Faith. If that was the case he would have said so in his book - and elsewhere - as that would be a MAJOR reason for him to use to explain why he did not meet or speak to the McCanns during the whole of the case. Not only that but if the McCanns were being interviewed in a room with a 2-way mirror - they would know about it - they're not daft. If they thought they were being observed in that way, they too would have said so at some stage IMO as it's not a small detail that's not worth a mention in anyone's book- (no pun intended).
Neither he nor the McCanns have ever commented on what IMO would be a factor in the case pertinent enough to guarantee a mention - and I would bet my last penny on the fact that no such 2-way mirror existed.
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By the 5th of May six police officers from Leicester were in Portugal
The child had gone missing as night fell on the 3rd and any action by Leicester police would not have begun until the morning of the 4th ( unless you believe Gordon Brown was so close to Gerry McCann that he was on the phone during the night, waking up sleeping senior officers as if it were some kind of national emergency )
During that day ( when everyone was expecting the child either to be discovered, possibly trapped or injured, or sadly for a little body to be found ) Leicester police were urgently arranging flights, accomodation, re-organising work loads, and cancelling leave so that six officers could go to Portugal straight away
By 8pm on the 5th they were in the McCann's apartment, where, less than 48 hours before the
missing child had, according to her parents, been safely tucked up in bed
It is not just the speed and urgency with which the British police acted, it is the 'foresight' ... I mean, the child had beed been missing for one night when arrangements were made for the six officers to be deployed, and she could have turned up at any moment
I don't see how anyone can think the response from Leicester police was remotely what might normally be expected in the case of a British child having been missing for less than 24 hours in a European country where the police were already investigating
I missed your post earlier Ica but you have raised a very valid point as to why six senior British police officers (referred to mostly as Inspectors) were in PdL less than 48 hours after she disappeared and just as the sea and land search for her was in full swing. I have never ever heard of such a thing happening in any other case of an abduction abroad.
It is also very revealing that the Chancellor of the Exchequer namely Gordon Brown saw fit to telephone the McCanns directly. It would certainly appear that there was an awful lot more going on behind the scenes than the public or the press were ever aware of at the time.
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Not as far as I can see, Lace.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
Paiva is the only one, that seems to have said this to Kate!
Most interesting DCI. Seems very early on and a matter of a mere13 hours it wasn't just the Portuguese who thought the McCanns were involved in Madeleine's disappearance. The comments about Dr Payne are also most revealing!!
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I missed your post earlier Ica but you have raised a very valid point as to why six senior British police officers (referred to mostly as Inspectors) were in PdL less than 48 hours after she disappeared and just as the sea and land search for her was in full swing. I have never ever heard of such a thing happening in any other case of an abduction abroad.
It is also very revealing that the Chancellor of the Exchequer namely Gordon Brown saw fit to telephone the McCanns directly. It would certainly appear that there was an awful lot more going on behind the scenes than the public or the press were ever aware of at the time.
First of all, has it been established that six senior officers from LP were in PdL less than 48 hours later?
- Two FLOs arrived on 5 May, according to their statements, from LP, but would they have been senior officers?
Kate mentions that three arrived in her book, although it's not clear who the third one was (pp.102-3).
- Forensic psychologists from CEOP and an analyst from NPIA arrived the following week.
- It's not clear when exactly DCS Bob Small arrived (he was obviously there for the van episode).
- José de Freitas (SOCA) was there at some point over the summer, though I'm not sure when he turned up.
It's not clear how long these people actually stayed.
- What's odd about Gordon Brown phoning Gerry, the father of a missing child? Or Cherie Blair contacting Kate?
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I missed your post earlier Ica but you have raised a very valid point as to why six senior British police officers (referred to mostly as Inspectors) were in PdL less than 48 hours after she disappeared and just as the sea and land search for her was in full swing. I have never ever heard of such a thing happening in any other case of an abduction abroad.
It is also very revealing that the Chancellor of the Exchequer namely Gordon Brown saw fit to telephone the McCanns directly. It would certainly appear that there was an awful lot more going on behind the scenes than the public or the press were ever aware of at the time.
The only other case I know of a British child being abducted abroad was Ben Needham 16 years before. Things were very different then.
Gordon Brown didn't phone the McCanns until about a fortnight after Madeleine disappeared and then I presume as with other MPs who phoned the McCanns - it was mainly to offer his sympathy on a personal level.
I'm wondering whether it was the British Consul who instigated many of the first actions - including the arrival of the police from Leicester - as he lived in Portugal and knew all about the assaults which had happened to UK children in their holiday apartments in the same area. He met the McCanns at the police station on the morning of the 4th and I presume was convinced that they were telling the truth about what happened - and as he would have access to the appropriate people, and the necessary clout to make suggestions that would be acted upon - I think it's possible that it was he who first got the ball rolling.
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What about the 5-year-old British boy kidnapped in Pakistan in 2010?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/10/kidnap-sahil-saeed-father-pakistan?guni=Article:in%20body%20link
It doesn't take that much to imagine why the potential extent of UK involvement may not have made headlines in that case. Nor was the mother's diary leaked to tabloids as far as I'm aware...
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Amaral understands and speaks English. It can be said he doesn't, till the cows come home, but I am assured he can. From a very good English source, who has interviewed him, and his wife 8((()*/
Interesting DCI...can you prove this statement?
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Interesting DCI...can you prove this statement?
Not without revealing my source, no. Do you know what language he spoke to Pat Brown in? She doesn't speak Portuguese.
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Interesting DCI...can you prove this statement?
Angelo, English is taught at school, you can't escape it. And poor countries broadcast UK and US series with subtitles.
But many people here say they don't speak English when they don't speak currently, just read in English.
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Angelo, English is taught at school, you can't escape it. And poor countries broadcast UK and US series with subtitles.
But many people here say they don't speak English when they don't speak currently, just read in English.
- Were all the GNR officers on the night of the disappearance fluent in English?
- Was Amaral fluent in English or not?
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Have you been taught a foreign language at school ?
If so, for how many years ?
Are you fluent in that language ?
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Have you been taught a foreign language at school ?
If so, for how many years ?
Are you fluent in that language ?
Was Amaral fluent in English or not?
Various people say that he wasn't, others say that he was...
Was he? Or not?
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Not without revealing my source, no. Do you know what language he spoke to Pat Brown in? She doesn't speak Portuguese.
What kind of crap is this? my *sources* ? the rules of this forum determine you are not allowed to post claims without proof/back up, so basically its prove it or shut up or expect a ban
Oh and we all know that Mr Amaral was accused of saying fk the mccanns....when he doesnt even speak english....the weasly little midget reporter osullivan eckoned he did only to be followed by the bbc agreeing he got it wrong LooooooL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA5R7c1c42A&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2011/06/mccann-case-complaint-against-biased.html
http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2012/01/biased-bbc-east-midlands-1691966.html
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Not without revealing my source, no. Do you know what language he spoke to Pat Brown in? She doesn't speak Portuguese.
I imagine the same person who took the photos of Mr. Amaral and Ms. Brown meeting in Lisbon served as an interpreter. You should know by now DCI that that old pro excuse that Mr. Amaral speaks, reads, or understands English in a fluent way has been proved to be a lie, one of many that has been used online by McCann supporters, such as yourself, only to denigrate Gonçalo Amaral's image. Those ad hominem attacks besides being laughable, clearly indicate that you and your pro McCann colleagues aka trolls and cyber-bullies, have no substantial arguments to refute or disprove the conclusions reached by two PJ teams and by the English officers who worked with them, all thoroughly explained in both Mr. Amaral's book A Verdade da Mentira and in the process.
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Amaral understands and speaks English. It can be said he doesn't, till the cows come home, but I am assured he can. From a very good English source, who has interviewed him, and his wife 8((()*/
That can only be Jim 'mad dog' Murray ... are you saying that this senior reporter from the Express is sharing information with you ?
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I imagine the same person who took the photos of Mr. Amaral and Ms. Brown meeting in Lisbon served as an interpreter. You should know by now DCI that that old pro excuse that Mr. Amaral speaks, reads, or understands English in a fluent way has been proved to be a lie, one of many that has been used online by McCann supporters, such as yourself, only to denigrate Gonçalo Amaral's image. Those ad hominem attacks besides being laughable, clearly indicate that you and your pro McCann colleagues aka trolls and cyber-bullies, have no substantial arguments to refute or disprove the conclusions reached by two PJ teams and by the English officers who worked with them, all thoroughly explained in both Mr. Amaral's book A Verdade da Mentira and in the process.
I'm not sure what point you're making.