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This is the defaced poster on the M537 just outside Praia da Luz pictured in April 2009. The blame for this handiwork has been put down to a local disgruntled by the negative publicity the case has brought to the village.
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00779/SNF13SPDA-682_779978a.jpg)
This defaced billboard appealing for information about missing Madeleine McCann is on the main road into Praia da Luz, from where the little British girl vanished aged three on May 3, 2007.
One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster's heartbreaking "Help me!" plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign's hotline number.
As the second anniversary of her disappearance approaches, the spoiled hoarding is a chilling reflection on how locals in the seaside town feel towards Maddie still being in the news.
They are angry the tot continues to be associated with the resort and would gladly forget the whole affair.
Emotions are especially high at the Ocean Club complex from where she disappeared, where 21 employees have been sacked due to a downturn in trade.
The first line in the letters of dismissal blamed negative publicity caused by Maddie vanishing. Some workers heckled dad Gerry McCann, 40, during his recent surprise visit to film a reconstruction of events. Others are said to be considering legal action against the family for loss of income.
A middle-aged barmaid at the development's empty tapas bar — which should be bustling with British tourists during the Easter holidays — revealed she is among those being let go on May 9.
Gazing out to the deserted pool area, where Maddie's mum Kate McCann, 41, took the last photo of her daughter, she confirmed many locals resent the continuing impact of the disappearance.
The woman, who did not want to be named, said: "We need peace in this village. Since Maddie vanished there has been a black cloud hanging over it.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/2373773/How-Praia-da-Luz-turned-on-Maddie-McCann.html
253
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Here is the site of the defaced poster in August 2009 when the Google van passed by. In truth, so sad, the posters have disappeared just like Madeleine.
(http://i.imgur.com/nigLtxs.jpg)
https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=37.098832,-8.714025&spn=0.006692,0.033023&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.098834,-8.718115&panoid=5qFCS8E_S7YcPynzgWojtA&cbp=11,193.33,,0,7.74
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Bonny didn't go around vandalising posters of Madeleine and posted that she did so on a forker forum, now did she?
No she didn't. Bonny simply moderated the largest McCann-sceptic forum the net has ever seen, making her conversion little short of miraculous.
And I don't believe in miracles.
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No. Good old Bonny wished more terrific things for the McCann. She did not a 180 degrees swirl, it was more a 480 and is still seeking for her North, or South...poor thing!
"One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster's heartbreaking "Help me!" plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign's hotline number."
Spiteful wicked sick vandal is what the newspaper article labelled you. Vandalism in Portugal is a criminal offense, not so?
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/ScuK-sHQvnI/AAAAAAAAEQ4/7xuHwiSO-TY/s400/torn.jpg)
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Monday, 6 April 2009
Now Some People Want To Blame the McCanns For Portugal's Tourist Trade Plummeting In A Global Recession!
You couldn't make this up really but as they have mentioned, I thought it only fair to counteract.
There is a report in the Sun today about a couple of disgruntled workers suing the McCanns because they lost their job in a global recession, I have heard of some really stupid things that the McCanns are being blamed for but this is the most stupid to date!
http://thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article2362875.ece
But here is some facts for them.
These disgruntled people would be better off blaming the real culprits for the predicament they find themselves in.
They also need reminding that Madeleine is a victim and so is her parents of the heinous crime of child abduction that took place in Portugal in the town of Praia da Luz, whether they care to admit is or they like it or not, this is the truth.
Then they should think about blaming all those that have given their country and their town a bad name ever since and this falls on the shoulders of Portuguese nationals like Claudia, Luz, Alsabella, not forgetting the odious blood sucking leaches that write books and make money out of children they failed, enter Paulo Cristovao and the fat arsed wonder Goncalo Amaral.
What did they think the publicity that their very own odious fatso Gonco Bunter (Goncalo Amaral) brought to them, actually did for them?
Forget the biased opinions of dubious mediocre minds of the Janet and John type book circle that actually read this book and thought is was the best thing since the proverbial loaf of sliced bread, their banality doesn't really count.
However, this book 'The Truth of the Lie/True Lies' or something (even the title makes no sense) has done much to harm the already tarnished image of Portugal. The fat arsed wonder had already tarnished Portugal's and PDL's image when he was in charge of the Madeleine investigation for four months! The book just had normal sane people looking at it and shaking their heads in total disbelief and making a mental note 'never' to risk their children there until something had been done to rectify the glaring problems that make Portugal an attractive destination to any old passing paedophile, from ANY country as well as their own home grown Paedophiles!
If people feel unsafe to come to PDL with their children, then instead of blaming the victims of the crime, they should blame the ABDUCTORS and their thick headed corpulent ex PJ turned book writer, and pimp extraordinaire who has sought out every way imaginable to pimp on the little girls memory, the little girl he failed abysmally!
It is the likes of of Goncalo Amaral and his constant barrage of bizarre and often unfathomable unfounded allegations, leaks and smears against these parents, that has constantly highlighted Portugal and brought it into disrepute, not the poor unfortunate parents that suffered the desperately sad plight of having their daughter abducted and then suffered further as the finger of blame was pointed at them based on noting, zero, zilch evidence. For this Portugal can again turn and point their fingers at Goncalo Amaral.
I kept warning that if the obvious right wing Portuguese nationals did not let up on their agenda to attack the McCanns and accuse them at every given opportunity, that Portugal and Praia da Luz in particular, would suffer a catastrophic fall in tourism, you cannot keep saying the things these people were saying without it having a detrimental affect on their tourist industry. they were warned but they scoffed and laughed and carried on and now others are suffering because of the foul minds and mouths of these people.
Why blame the victims of crime? There is too much of this blame the victim mentality and if people are going to do this, then they have to be prepared to pay the consequences.
If I had little children, regardless of Kate and Gerry McCann, I would NOT even think of going to PDL and taking them there because I do not think it is a safe enough country.
I would make this decision based on all the facts and not just Kate and Gerry McCann and Madeleine.
I do not want to visit a country where I have no trust in the police to do a good and unbiased job should anything go wrong.
I do not want to visit a country where there is no DNA based sex offenders register in place.
I do not want to visit a country that pretends it is family orientated, but turns out it is not. It turns out that the smiles were only as they took our holiday euros, as soon as our backs are turned, we turn into those filthy British tourists again!
I do not want to visit a country, that thinks nothing of booing and heckling a mother as she faces the most agonising time in her whole existence.
I do not want to visit a country, that thinks nothing of allowing an a disgraced ex police chief SACKED from the investigation of a missing child, to write books, write columns in newspapers, make films, give interviews to journalists, magazines, radio and television and get paid thousands of euros for doing so.
I do not want to visit a country, that allows such a disgraced man, to make completely fabricated and unfounded allegations against two people who could not fight back, because he is effect had silenced them by making them arguidos (suspects) in a hurry before Portugal's law changed just 8 days later, when he was in charge of the investigation. (Again - Goncalo Amaral)
I do not want to visit a country, that thinks nothing of journalists being given highly confidential and sensitive information about witnesses, told these witnesses names, addresses and telephone numbers by an "unknown source close to the PJ" and then this journalist 'Felcia Cabrita' turns out to be a bit of a close friend of the ex lead detective on the Madeleine case, one Goncalo Amaral. (Again)
I do not want to visit a country, that cannot accept responsibility for the catastrophic blunders that dogged this investigation from start to finish without even trying to put them right.
I do not want to visit a country that thinks it is a good thing to boo and heckle a a distressed man, there to make a filmed reconstruction in the hope of jogging a few people's memories that may lead to information in finding his abducted daughter.
I do not want to visit a country, that thinks nothing of allowing the defilement of the posters of a missing child and the obliteration of the telephone numbers that one may call if they had information, that could help bring this tragic affair to an end. It is hard to figure, of the people of Praia da Luz are so worried about their tourist trade, then how come they do nothing about the wanton vandalism at the door to their town?
How do these people think that adding vandalism and defacing the image of an innocent child to the already very long list of reasons, why a family may not choose Praia dal Luz or Portugal for their hard earned vacation, will do thier sinking trade any good?
I do not want to visit a country, that cannot accept that a child was abducted and then put in place laws that may make future abductors think twice before doing this again and I do not want to visit a country that cannot accept responsibility for the great wrongs that have been done to this couple at the hands of the fat arsed wonder! Goncalo 'Walter Mitty' Amaral.
I have voiced many of these opinions before and was promptly told by the "delightful" Portuguese nationals Claudia, Alsabella and Athena, good don't come, we don't want your sort in our country.
Well it looks like they have got their wish, because a lot of people are my sort and it looks like we have stayed away in our droves!
This predicament of the workers in PDL has nothing to do with the McCanns, but it has everything to do with the fat laughing all the way to the bank policeman, who not only failed one small little girl abysmally, he failed his country and his people in a way that cannot be measured.
Perhaps those workers should sue Amaral? after all he is the one making the millions and spending it on his wife keeping her kitted out in designer frocks, frocks paid for by Madeleine McCann!
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So, blame the vandals now? What about the parents of the missing one, they hold some responsibility here?
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.... inappropriate content removed ...
My big sin?!
Thank you so much for showing these quite revealing examples of the stupidity that people engaged into...
However I maintain the idea that I expressed on that post I wrote so long ago that I'd forgotten about. I never did use or distribute leaflets, because my life is not built around this, but I would if I had the time. I believe in revealing the facts so people can make their own minds about the truth instead of having it shoveled into their throats wrapped in pretense victim's sugar coat.
And by the way, I'm very happy that Rosiepops doesn't come to Portugal, lease give her my thanks.
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This is the defaced poster on the M537 just outside Praia da Luz pictured in April 2009. The blame for this handiwork has been put down to a local disgruntled by the negative publicity the case has brought to the village.
(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mitts1.jpg)
This defaced billboard appealing for information about missing Madeleine McCann is on the main road into Praia da Luz, from where the little British girl vanished aged three on May 3, 2007.
One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster's heartbreaking "Help me!" plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign's hotline number.
As the second anniversary of her disappearance approaches, the spoiled hoarding is a chilling reflection on how locals in the seaside town feel towards Maddie still being in the news.
They are angry the tot continues to be associated with the resort and would gladly forget the whole affair.
Emotions are especially high at the Ocean Club complex from where she disappeared, where 21 employees have been sacked due to a downturn in trade.
The first line in the letters of dismissal blamed negative publicity caused by Maddie vanishing. Some workers heckled dad Gerry McCann, 40, during his recent surprise visit to film a reconstruction of events. Others are said to be considering legal action against the family for loss of income.
A middle-aged barmaid at the development's empty tapas bar — which should be bustling with British tourists during the Easter holidays — revealed she is among those being let go on May 9.
Gazing out to the deserted pool area, where Maddie's mum Kate McCann, 41, took the last photo of her daughter, she confirmed many locals resent the continuing impact of the disappearance.
The woman, who did not want to be named, said: "We need peace in this village. Since Maddie vanished there has been a black cloud hanging over it.
That has to be one of the saddest photos... Why would anyone obliterate a phone number for a missing child?
Were the Portuguese not aware of the Euro crisis which affected tourism... or are the McCanns also responsible for that?
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That was two years later?
English newspapers launched what can only be described as xenophobic attacks on Portugal less than seven days after the disappearance.
So who should be ashamed?
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That was two years later?
English newspapers launched what can only be described as xenophobic attacks on Portugal less than seven days after the disappearance.
So who should be ashamed?
The tabloid press in both countries should hang their heads in shame, in my opinion.
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I do not condone the destruction of the posters and I don't believe it was done by the good people of Praia da Luz.
I don't know if you remember but at that time the Media campaign against Portugal was at the peak and, because there was nothing new to publish, those images made front pages for most newspapers for a few days.
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I do not condone the destruction of the posters and I don't believe it was done by the good people of Praia da Luz.
I don't know if you remember but at that time the Media campaign against Portugal was at the peak and, because there was nothing new to publish, those images made front pages for most newspapers for a few days.
Luz pack it in will ya! More than one person saw you post, gloating how you destroyed posters. Just because people can't produce the screenshot doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know it does, because I sent a copy to Carter Ruck.
I would suggest you hang your head in shame, but then again it seems you don't have a heart or a soul. Cold calculated vandal who like Amaral will lie to save her own skin.
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Luz pack it in will ya! More than one person saw you post, gloating how you destroyed posters. Just because people can't produce the screenshot doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know it does, because I sent a copy to Carter Ruck.
I would suggest you hang your head in shame, but then again it seems you don't have a heart or a soul. Cold calculated vandal who like Amaral will lie to save her own skin.
Nobody saw that because I never did anything of the sort, much less gloat about it. Trying to destroy my reputation is not going to help your friends.
And I refuse to enter this petty internet battles I've sadly watched for many years, so consider this my ultimate post ever directed to you.
I won't even report you because you don't deserve that much credit.
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Luz
As I believe in the presumption of innocence, I'm willing to assume that you may not have been actually involved in these painting-defamation incidents.
However, if I try to examine issues from your perspective... can you prove that you weren't?
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Please keep to forum rules. Ta ?>)()<
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Luz
As I believe in the presumption of innocence, I'm willing to assume that you may not have been actually involved in these painting-defamation incidents.
However, if I try to examine issues from your perspective... can you prove that you weren't?
what kind of question is that? Can you prove you didnt?
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what kind of question is that? Can you prove you didnt?
Wasn't it Gerry who said you can't prove a negative ?
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Wasn't it Gerry who said you can't prove a negative ?
Yes, unfortunately it dont cut both ways, as I was saying before the thread was culled, a general question about ill feeling in Portugal and in PDL in general, which was very real, for a variety of reasons, mainly the Mccanns actions and the consequences, has been used to castigate and victimise a single poster here, cowardly and shameful, oh well, to be expected, had enough for one afternoon
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Luz
As I believe in the presumption of innocence, I'm willing to assume that you may not have been actually involved in these painting-defamation incidents.
However, if I try to examine issues from your perspective... can you prove that you weren't?
The Mccanns supporters are very fond of asking for proof.
Can you provide proof of these allegations ?
If you can't an apology is due, and then some.
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The Mccanns supporters are very fond of asking for proof.
Can you provide proof of these allegations ?
If you can't an apology is due, and then some.
Witness statements would qualify as proof of allegations. I know there was at least a half a dozen who saw those posts by Luz.
Also a little difficult to obtain, but not impossible, would be a copy from the place it was sent to. Who knows! it might even feature in the libel trial as proof of actual damage done.
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Please keep to forum rules. Ta ?>)()<
Which forum rules would that be? I am so confused. My posts are quickly removed while others posts, who do the same and worse, are allowed to stay. ?>)()<
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The Mccanns supporters are very fond of asking for proof.
Can you provide proof of these allegations ?
If you can't an apology is due, and then some.
Would you please address this statement to amaral...I feel it is very appropriate...oh the irony
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Would you please address this statement to amaral...I feel it is very appropriate...oh the irony
Amaral's is a theory.
The abduction is a theory.
Any comments ?
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Would you please address this statement to amaral...I feel it is very appropriate...oh the irony
Derailing again from the thread topic?
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Amaral's is a theory.
A theory that concludes the parents had something to do with her death and concealment of body. Contradictory to the AG's final report. A theory full of defamation and misinformation. A theory that has been sold for financial gain by its creator.
The abduction is a theory.
Does not accuse the parents of murder and concealment of body.
Any comments ? in blue
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Which forum rules would that be? I am so confused. My posts are quickly removed while others posts, who do the same and worse, are allowed to stay. ?>)()<
Please do not bring old posts by anonymous individuals made on other internet sites to this forum. Ta
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Now did Amaral say the parents cause Madeleine's death ?
Yes or No ?
Now remember GM's words.
'..ALL POSSIBILITIES...'
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Please do not bring old posts by anonymous individuals made on other internet sites to this forum. Ta
Luz is not anonymous, she even admitted that she made that one post (throw tomatoes at the McCann's). And besides, it goes to illustrate the thread topic (bad feelings) how people with anger towards the McCann's will post anonymously and deface posters anonymously, because they know they are in the wrong.
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Witness statements would qualify as proof of allegations. I know there was at least a half a dozen who saw those posts by Luz.
Also a little difficult to obtain, but not impossible, would be a copy from the place it was sent to. Who knows! it might even feature in the libel trial as proof of actual damage done.
Then maybe one of those half a dozen people who saw Luz's alleged post will send a screenshot of it to you so you can post it here because until you do that your honesty, and integrity, will continue to be severely damaged by your unproven claims against another poster.
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Then maybe one of those half a dozen people who saw Luz's alleged post will send a screenshot of it to you so you can post it here because until you do that your honesty, and integrity, will continue to be severely damaged by your unproven claims against another poster.
Sense at last
8((()*/
8@??)(
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This defaced poster issue was discussed some time ago in the thread "locally to PdL" Anyone who hasn't already read it might find some of the comments interesting.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1787.msg60890#msg60890
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I saw the posts that Luz made on here about the paint damaged, defaced and torn posters and her justification for it.
www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1787.msg60895#msg60895
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I saw the posts that Luz made on here about the paint damaged, defaced and torn posters and her justification for it.
www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1787.msg60895#msg60895
Thanks for that Angelo.
Definitely relevant.
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Then maybe one of those half a dozen people who saw Luz's alleged post will send a screenshot of it to you so you can post it here because until you do that your honesty, and integrity, will continue to be severely damaged by your unproven claims against another poster.
You question my honesty and integrity, but you support the person who is known to spread falsehoods. She has not yet produced the paper that confirms the below claim, a paper that does not exist, while the material that proves she defaced posters does exist. Luz admits so herself by claiming it was made by someone using her name.
davel -If Amaral has donated a substantial sum to charity then I applaud him. However the information is coming from Luz who has also claimed that Amaral has been cleared of charges in the Cipriano torture case. She also claims to have seen a paper that confirms this. As we know Amaral has not been cleared so Luz has lied and therefore may also be lying on this occasion.
Luz claims someone else made that post under her name. Usernames on forums can not be dublicated. When you register a 'same' username it tells you you need to choose another as one already exists.
It doesn't surprise me that someone would use my name to try to denigrate me
In other words, the post DID exist. The person she claims posted under her name, admitted to destroying posters. She, Luz does not deny the post exists, which is what my claim is in the first place. And seeing Luz is known to twist the truth, many have seen it, more evidence exists that it was indeed Luz and not an imposter who posted up that defacing posters post.
Sadie - Strange that someone should use your name, and on your usual forum. With your dogged interest in the case I am surprised you didn't see it at the time, and stop it. Talk about it went on for weeks ... and you were about all the time
Your username wasn't changed either to avoid this person from using it again, was it? You just continued "it went on for weeks". Odd that. I'd thought that she'd be worried someone else was posting under her name?
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Oh dear me Luz. Looks like you are in a bigger hole than the Costa Concordia @)(++(*
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You question my honesty and integrity, but you support the person who is known to spread falsehoods. She has not yet produced the paper that confirms the below claim, a paper that does not exist, while the material that proves she defaced posters does exist. Luz admits so herself by claiming it was made by someone using her name.
Luz claims someone else made that post under her name. Usernames on forums can not be dublicated. When you register a 'same' username it tells you you need to choose another as one already exists.In other words, the post DID exist. The person she claims posted under her name, admitted to destroying posters. She, Luz does not deny the post exists, which is what my claim is in the first place. And seeing Luz is known to twist the truth, many have seen it, more evidence exists that it was indeed Luz and not an imposter who posted up that defacing posters post.
Your username wasn't changed either to avoid this person from using it again, was it? You just continued "it went on for weeks". Odd that. I'd thought that she'd be worried someone else was posting under her name?
As far as I can see Luz is saying that IF something was posted with regard to defacing posters it was not done by her. So far you have provided no evidence that anything WAS posted.
So over to you Mo Stache. Either put up or shut up.
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As far as I can see Luz is saying that IF something was posted with regard to defacing posters it was not done by her. So far you have provided no evidence that anything WAS posted.
So over to you Mo Stache. Either put up or shut up.
I don't want to get involved in this spate but will point out merely that Luz admitted to posting on that account so it can only be hers. Unless of course she is claiming that someone hacked it??
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As far as I can see Luz is saying that IF something was posted with regard to defacing posters it was not done by her. So far you have provided no evidence that anything WAS posted.
So over to you Mo Stache. Either put up or shut up.
Not IF something was posted...... Something WAS posted. I don't have to provide the proof because Luz admits that the post (allegedly under her name) was posted up. Luz has provided everyone with the proof that the post exists, there is no need anymore to find a screenshot of the post. The post did exist. If you looking for proof that it was an imposter posting under her name, she made that claim and therefore needs to provide the evidence of such.
If your account was hijacked by someone else, would you not make a fuss about it, especially if the person has been posting that you have caused criminal damage to posters? Would you not 'out' the rascal who used your name to post up such a despicable act? It's easy. Contact the admin of the board and ask them to check the IP of the poster who posted allegedly under your name. An imposter always leaves a electronic trail.
If someone has hijacked your username they would have to:
-know your password, either:
*with permission from the account holder.
or
*without permission/hacked account in which case surely Luz would have kicked up a fuss for being hacked and obtained the hackers IP for reporting.
-have your permission to post using your account details (in which case Luz could easily offer up the person's identity who posted that post)
Fact is. Luz acknowledges that the post exists. She is yet to prove that it was an imposter and provide the proof that someone else posted it under her name.
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I don't want to get involved in this spate but will point out merely that Luz admitted to posting on that account so it can only be hers. Unless of course she is claiming that someone hacked it??
So WHERE is the post ?
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I don't want to get involved in this spate but will point out merely that Luz admitted to posting on that account so it can only be hers. Unless of course she is claiming that someone hacked it??
Yes, it can only be hers. And if she was hacked why would she have left it and done nothing about it, seeing she was being accused of such a terrible act?
Hackers leave electronic foot prints that can be easily be traced. IF she was hacked, why did she not endeavour to trace the hacker and clear her name by providing proof of such?
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So WHERE is the post ?
It looked really bad for the forum (it was posted on) so they removed it. They didn't want it being used to lodge a complaint with the forum host or owner. Not that the owner gave a toss, because it was left up for weeks before the heat the forum was receiving became to much and they were worried about legal action being taken.
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It looked really bad for the forum (it was posted on) so they removed it. They didn't want it being used to lodge a complaint with the forum host or owner. Not that the owner gave a toss, because it was left up for weeks before the heat the forum was receiving became to much and they were worried about legal action being taken.
But you or your half a dozen friends must have a copy, surely ?
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But you or your half a dozen friends must have a copy, surely ?
No need to provide one, because Luz has provided the proof that it did exist.
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No need to provide one, because Luz has provided the proof that it did exist.
I'm sorry I must have missed Luz's post. Care to repost it ?
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8-)(--)
You have claimed Luz admitted that the post you claim existed actually did exist. Unfortunately I failed to see Luz's post so perhaps you would repost it ?
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You have claimed Luz admitted that the post you claim existed actually did exist. Unfortunately I failed to see Luz's post so perhaps you would repost it ?
Angelo - I don't want to get involved in this spate but will point out merely that Luz admitted to posting on that account so it can only be hers.
You don't believe me, so maybe you will believe Angelo, because he also saw it.
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You don't believe me, so maybe you will believe Angelo, because he also saw it.
TBH I don't mind who provides verification, just that someone does.
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Then maybe one of those half a dozen people who saw Luz's alleged post will send a screenshot of it to you so you can post it here because until you do that your honesty, and integrity, will continue to be severely damaged by your unproven claims against another poster.
Yes and that's why the McCann's are suing Amaral because their honesty and integrity has been severely damaged.
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Yes and that's why the McCann's are suing Amaral because their honesty and integrity has been severely damaged.
No one can damage anyones honesty or integrity, what a silly thing to say, it either exists or does not
@)(++(*
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No one can damage anyones honesty or integrity, what a silly thing to say, it either exists or does not
@)(++(*
Lux has been accused of defacing the posters of Madeleine. The McCann's have been accused of faking an abuduction and hiding Madeleine's body.
Someone could produce the e.mail that Lux sent, showing Lux of being guilty of defacing the poster's.
The McCann's cannot produce the abductor.
Nothing was proven against the McCann's.
Now if Lux was taken to court and it was proven that she/he didn't deface the poster's then this person's honesty and integrity has been restored, proving that all along this person was truthful.
Amaral wrote a book accusing the McCann's of faking the abduction and hiding Madeleine's body. Also of giving the children calpol to sedate them. Saying that they did do this, even though the McCann's have said all along they are telling the truth, that he was wrong they didn't do this.
Many many people would believe what Amaral has written as he was the co-ordinator of the case, he was respected as a senior officer. Many many people would be saying the McCann's have not told the truth.
If Amaral loses the case then surely the honesty and integrity would be restored in part as some would say 'maybe they were telling the truth after all' Amaral wrote this book and nothing was proved.
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Verification was provided by Luz herself. She has not denied the post exists. She has on more than one occasion said it exists, but that the author of the post wasn't her. She claims someone had used her 'name'/account to make the post. I don't see why people are still demanding to see the screenshot when Luz has verified it existed. Don't they believe Luz when she says it was made, but alledges it was made in her name but wasn't her? It would now seem that they are questioning the authenticity of everything Luz says. And wasn't that the point to begin with. Luz twists the truth so much, it would appear even those who support her don't even trust her when she acknowledges the post was made.
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I don't believe for a second that Luz damaged any posters. She might have wanted to and boasted about doing so but that is where it ends. Isn't that right Luz??
My question is, with all this money sitting dormant in a bank account wouldn't it be better used to search for Madeleine? Why have they effectively abandoned her?
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I don't believe for a second that Luz damaged any posters. She might have wanted to and boasted about doing so but that is where it ends. Isn't that right Luz??
You are entitled to your own view, as are those who do believe she damaged the posters.
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I don't believe for a second that Luz damaged any posters. She might have wanted to and boasted about doing so but that is where it ends. Isn't that right Luz??
My question is, with all this money sitting dormant in a bank account wouldn't it be better used to search for Madeleine? Why have they effectively abandoned her?
What do you mean 'effectively abandoned her'? SY have taken over for the time being.
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You are entitled to your own view, as are those who do believe she damaged the posters.
You edited your post after I replied to you, asking a question that is off topic for this thread. As a moderator should you not also be abiding by forum rules?
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You edited your post after I replied to you, asking a question that is off topic for this thread. As a moderator should you not also be abiding by forum rules?
My question isn't off topic. Why haven't they replaced those billboards with something more substantial and less liable to be damaged. Why have they not bought time on Portuguese TV channels promoting Madeleine? Or is it a case of much ado about nothing?? @)(++(*
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My question isn't off topic. Why haven't they replaced those billboards with something more substantial and less liable to be damaged. Why have they not bought time on Portuguese TV channels promoting Madeleine? Or is it a case of much ado about nothing?? @)(++(*
8)--)) Yes it is. That question addressed the "why didn't they search" issue.
Here is the correct thread for that issue (mind you there has been a few threads on the searching issue) =
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2198.msg73585#msg73585
I don't know why they did what they did. I don't always agree with what they do. I can only assume that because of the strained relationship between the Portuguese and the McCann’s they thought it wouldn't help putting up posters less liable to be damaged. Or that it would cost too much. Remember there was a stage that the fund was almost depleted, pre book release. However, whatever they do it is always met with scrutiny. Why should they put up posters that can't be tampered with when it's common human decency not to deface posters in the first place?
They did do interviews on Portuguese TV. People forget they just parents. Not some professional PR machine. And the people they have employed along the way to help them, haven't always turned out to be there for them and acting in their best interests. That is no fault of theirs, they only human, they make mistakes, as was evident the night Madeleine disappeared. But, that does not automatically make them guilty of murdering her. There is a huge leap from 'making a terrible parenting mistake' to 'they killed their child'. And people tend to want to fill that gap with whatever they interpret the facts to be. And in that lies the problem. Those interpreting the facts are also human and can make mistakes. I believe Amaral made such a mistake. He misinterpreted the fact and based his theory on that misinterpretation. Unfortunately instead of back tracking and acknowledging this, he saw it as a means to use his right to freedom of expression and make some money. This intern has resulted in groups either in support of or against one of the parties. Those who can see the correct interpretation of facts and those who can't.
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You missed out abductors 8(0(*
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Give us a new theory Sadie. Take your mind off it ?{)(**
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So they went on Portuguese TV once Sadie? Was that the occasion that Gerry walked off set on one of his Irish huffs leaving Kate looking lost and silly??
Maybe you mean the time he ignored and blanked Portuguese journalists outside the Palace of Justice because he didn't like their questions??
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I don't believe for a second that Luz damaged any posters. She might have wanted to and boasted about doing so but that is where it ends. Isn't that right Luz??
My question is, with all this money sitting dormant in a bank account wouldn't it be better used to search for Madeleine? Why have they effectively abandoned her?
Why are you making excuses for Luz, Angelo?
The very fact that I epened a new thread just for her asking the question, Then had to keep challenging her and PMing her, proved she was hiding things ... and no longer wanted to admit what s/he did. It took her weeks and weeks to respond to my questiion to her about it.
DCI irrevocably proved s/he was lying, then Admin whooshed that .... or was it you that did that?
Sykes even commented on davidbretisagod.forumotion.co.uk about it .... about the injustices on a so called "Justice forum" in removing proofs that two posters were lying.
Apart from that so many of us have seen Luz s original bragging posts about defacing the posters of a missing child. What sort of person does a thing like that?
Actually I hope that s/he is sued. Some of those big posters must have cost an arm and a leg. Perhaps the Fund will get the money back frm her?
But the worst thing of all is that she was trying to stop the search for a missing little girl. Toerag!
No doubt you will whoosh this ... or slap penalty points on me for telling the truth
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Sadie, this obsession with what may or may not have happened two years later is irrational.
The search was already severely damaged by English xenophobia, which began within seven days and which continued without a break.
Why aren't you talking about that?
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But the worst thing of all is that she was trying to stop the search for a missing little girl. Toerag!
No doubt you will whoosh this ... or slap penalty points on me for telling the truth
What I will do is award you a few extra points for calling a fellow member a toerag when you haven't even been back 24 hours.
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My question isn't off topic. Why haven't they replaced those billboards with something more substantial and less liable to be damaged. Why have they not bought time on Portuguese TV channels promoting Madeleine? Or is it a case of much ado about nothing?? @)(++(*
Interesting. Are you suggesting that buying PT advertising time could have constituted a legitimate "search" expense?
Some people seem to have a more limited understanding of what "search" expenditure should have been.
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Interesting. Are you suggesting that buying PT advertising time could have constituted a legitimate "search" expense?
Some people seem to have a more limited understanding of what "search" expenditure should have been.
The fund spent £111,522 on legal fees and expenses and £81,904 on posters and television and newspaper adverts appealing for information about Madeleine. Mr and Mrs McCann, both 40, set up the fund in May 2007.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1131284/Where-2m-gave-Madeleine-McCann-gone.html
The couple will continue to campaign for their daughter's safe return, Mr Mitchell said, and an £80,000 poster campaign was launched yesterday to target remote villages in Southern Portugal and Spain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488007/We-DONT-believe-Madeleine-dead-Gerry-McCann-insists.html
And cinema ads
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-465825/Madeleine-cinema-advert-upsets-Shrek-audiences.html
I wonder whose wonderful idea this was? To scare young kids?
So, 80k, a meagre amount in the big scheme of things really
Guess this thread might die a death due to uncomfortable questions
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8)--)) Yes it is. That question addressed the "why didn't they search" issue.
Here is the correct thread for that issue (mind you there has been a few threads on the searching issue) =
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2198.msg73585#msg73585
I don't know why they did what they did. I don't always agree with what they do. I can only assume that because of the strained relationship between the Portuguese and the McCann’s they thought it wouldn't help putting up posters less liable to be damaged. Or that it would cost too much. Remember there was a stage that the fund was almost depleted, pre book release. However, whatever they do it is always met with scrutiny. Why should they put up posters that can't be tampered with when it's common human decency not to deface posters in the first place?
They did do interviews on Portuguese TV. People forget they just parents. Not some professional PR machine. And the people they have employed along the way to help them, haven't always turned out to be there for them and acting in their best interests. That is no fault of theirs, they only human, they make mistakes, as was evident the night Madeleine disappeared. But, that does not automatically make them guilty of murdering her. There is a huge leap from 'making a terrible parenting mistake' to 'they killed their child'. And people tend to want to fill that gap with whatever they interpret the facts to be. And in that lies the problem. Those interpreting the facts are also human and can make mistakes. I believe Amaral made such a mistake. He misinterpreted the fact and based his theory on that misinterpretation. Unfortunately instead of back tracking and acknowledging this, he saw it as a means to use his right to freedom of expression and make some money. This intern has resulted in groups either in support of or against one of the parties. Those who can see the correct interpretation of facts and those who can't.
8((()*/
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Interesting. Are you suggesting that buying PT advertising time could have constituted a legitimate "search" expense?
Some people seem to have a more limited understanding of what "search" expenditure should have been.
Most certainly. A national TV advertising campaign would reach the vast majority of the Portuguese and Maddie too if she is still alive. What's the point of having money sitting dormant in a bank account when your child is missing. Isn't that what the money was for??
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Most certainly. A national TV advertising campaign would reach the vast majority of the Portuguese and Maddie too if she is still alive. What's the point of having money sitting dormant in a bank account when your child is missing. Isn't that what the money was for??
Madeleine is almost certainly NOT in PT now, anyway.
And had they done what you are suggesting, then people on here would have been moaning about wasting the fund money.
It would have given them another stick with which to beat the Mccanns.
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Truly shameful that anyone could do this to a missing childs poster no matter what they believed.
http://news.sky.com/story/688705/portuguese-town-is-fed-up-with-madeleine
Portuguese Town Is 'Fed Up' With Madeleine
11:11am UK, Friday 01 May 2009
Madeleine poster vandalised
Video: Sympathy Wanes For Missing Madeleine
Enlarge
By Jason Farrell
A billboard about missing Madeleine McCann has been defaced and letters appealing for information ripped up in the Portuguese town where she disappeared.
Sympathy for Kate and Gerry McCann is running out in Praia da Luz, where their daughter vanished two years ago this Sunday, a Sky News investigation has found.
Gerry returned there last month to film a reconstruction but he was heckled by some residents who blame the couple for a downturn in business.
At the town, he backed a poster campaign and sent out 10,000 letters to locals, appealing for information about the British girl, who disappeared on May 3, 2007.
But they were received with little sympathy by many people, including builder Jose.
He said: "Nobody liked it and I think it was a shame that they sent out those letters. Many people just ripped them up."
Many expats there are equally hostile.
When asked how she felt about Gerry coming back to film a reconstruction, one resident, Nana, said: "Horrible, absolutely horrible. He was totally ignored.
"People didn't put up any posters. They're fed up and we're very angry."
This level of anger stems from a fear that the town has become too quiet.
The Ocean Club where the McCanns stayed and where Madeleine went missing is perhaps struggling the most.
In 2007, it employed 130 people, now it employs 48. Some 27 of them have just been sacked which will leave just 21 staff.
Laid-off laundry workers said the reasons given were the economy and the impact of Madeleine's disappearance.
But some people in Praia de Luz still support Kate and Gerry's efforts to find their daughter.
Local priest Haynes Hubbard, said: "People are tired. People don't like to be reminded of something awful being perpetrated in their own home, back yard.
"It's understandable but it's not right. It's easier to forget and move on. It's not right but it's easier."
The place is dependent on tourism but is famous for a missing girl - a face many want to forget when the McCanns' only hope is that people remember Madeleine
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Members are reminded that it is contrary to forum rules to import material from outside this forum with the sole intention of harassing or haranguing fellow members. I will take no action on this occasion except to remove the offending posts but be warned that this will no longer be tolerated.
No exceptions! ?>)()<
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=485.0
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Members are reminded that it is contrary to forum rules to import material from outside this forum with the sole intention of harassing or haranguing fellow members. I will take no action on this occasion except to remove the offending posts but be warned that this will no longer be tolerated.
No exceptions! ?>)()<
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=485.0
Admin
I dont understand it.
Why is it that some posters can import material but others can't ?
The posters that can import seem to be the Mccann [ censored word ]s.
The posters who cannot import seem to be the pro Mccanns.
Why is that? >@@(*&)
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Admin
I dont understand it.
Why is it that some posters can import material but others can't ?
The posters that can import seem to be the Mccann [ censored word ]s.
The posters who cannot import seem to be the pro Mccanns.
Why is that? >@@(*&)
The clue is in the 'with the sole intention of harassing or haranguing fellow members' bit Sadie.
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In which case, without the benefit or permission to bring the evidence here, I will repeat that I think the people like the Luz who posted that despicable comment on another forum is a vicious nasty s..mbag as are all other posters who post such evil comments regarding the disappearance of a missing little girl and the parents'/police actions to find that child.
And I repeat my question, is such vicious nastiness (as evidenced by the stream of such comments on other forums, confined to anti McCanns or is there also a stream of such evidence that Pro McCanns have behaved in the same way?
Anyone in my view who seeks to viciously damage the search for a missing little girl is beneath contempt and the more such evil people are exposed on forums and in the media the better for society. I regret that admin apparently don't agree that in this case the bringing here of such evidence of malicious comments is worthwhile.
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Admin
The posters that can import seem to be the Mccann [ censored word ]s.
The posters who cannot import seem to be the pro Mccanns.
Why is that? >@@(*&)
And why use the language "Mccann [ censored word ]s"? That says as much as anything. I do NOT Hate the McCans, I hate what they did in leaving their three young children alone; that does NOT make me hate them. If you must differentiate between posters, why not simply pro and anti (although even that is only a portion of the reality)
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Members are reminded that it is contrary to forum rules to import material from outside this forum with the sole intention of harassing or haranguing fellow members. I will take no action on this occasion except to remove the offending posts but be warned that this will no longer be tolerated.
No exceptions! ?>)()<
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=485.0
This thread is about the defacing of posters therefore I'm not sure why you don't like my post 8-)(--)
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In which case, without the benefit or permission to bring the evidence here, I will repeat that I think the people like the Luz who posted that despicable comment on another forum is a vicious nasty s..mbag as are all other posters who post such evil comments regarding the disappearance of a missing little girl and the parents'/police actions to find that child.
And I repeat my question, is such vicious nastiness (as evidenced by the stream of such comments on other forums, confined to anti McCanns or is there also a stream of such evidence that Pro McCanns have behaved in the same way?
Anyone in my view who seeks to viciously damage the search for a missing little girl is beneath contempt and the more such evil people are exposed on forums and in the media the better for society. I regret that admin apparently don't agree that in this case the bringing here of such evidence of malicious comments is worthwhile.
Is there any evidence that the Luz you refer to did anything other than boast of his or her efforts on a forum? I for one find it hard to believe that this person single-handedly managed to destroyed the 10,000 posters referred to by Mr Michael Wright while testifying last Friday at the Tribunal in Lisbon.
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Is there any evidence that the Luz you refer to did anything other than boast of his or her efforts on a forum? I for one find it hard to believe that this person single-handedly managed to destroyed the 10,000 posters referred to by Mr Michael Wright while testifying last Friday at the Tribunal in Lisbon.
No evidence whatsoever that I am aware of that this particular Luz did what he claimed. But someone did damage posters in PDL.
However I would expand my point and explain that I think anyone who countenances or expresses the idea that such activity is a good idea in the case of a missing little girl is a despicable s..mbag? Would you agree?
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She was the only one from memory boasting about it on forums that I saw at the time...then it happened so decide for yourself whether she was involved or not.
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No evidence whatsoever that I am aware of that this particular Luz did what he claimed. But someone did damage posters in PDL.
However I would expand my point and explain that I think anyone who countenances or expresses the idea that such activity is a good idea in the case of a missing little girl is a despicable s..mbag? Would you agree?
Most definitely Gilet. I was shocked as much as you to learn the numbers involved in the Praia da Luz area.
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The clue is in the 'with the sole intention of harassing or haranguing fellow members' bit Sadie.
Admin, with all due respect, that is not correct. It is very one sided.
The [ censored word ]s/sceptics regularly bring stuff from other forums/blogs with the express purpose of harrassing and haranging fellow members of the Pro inclination.
Undoubtedly also with the express purpose of putting out disinformation / propaganda against the Mccanns and the Tapas group. This has been allowed since the forum started.
If the [ censored word ]s can do it, why cant the pros ? Perhaps some changes should take place for a more level playing field?
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Admin, with all due respect, that is not correct. It is very one sided.
The [ censored word ]s/sceptics regularly bring stuff from other forums/blogs with the express purpose of harrassing and haranging fellow members of the Pro inclination.
Undoubtedly also with the express purpose of putting out disinformation / propaganda against the Mccanns and the Tapas group. This has been allowed since the forum started.
If the [ censored word ]s can do it, why cant the pros ? Perhaps some changes should take place for a more level playing field?
You are wrong Sadie. If you have an example of what you claim however we would be pleased to see it.
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Is there any evidence that the Luz you refer to did anything other than boast of his or her efforts on a forum? I for one find it hard to believe that this person single-handedly managed to destroyed the 10,000 posters referred to by Mr Michael Wright while testifying last Friday at the Tribunal in Lisbon.
Sorry Admin, but POOF !
S/he probably wasn't the only one, but she did it and bragged about it.
Sheer hatred and malice .... Luz, a low-l^fe who tore down and threw paint all over posters put up to try and find a stolen little girl. Specifically the phone number and contact address had been destroyed
Hmmm? >@@(*&)
FGS. What had Madeleine done to deserve that? Why was that done? THere has to be a reason.
Luz ?
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I doubt that it was just one person who went around tearing down posters unless that person was on a personal rampage. A small group, perhaps?
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No evidence whatsoever that I am aware of that this particular Luz did what he claimed. But someone did damage posters in PDL.
However I would expand my point and explain that I think anyone who countenances or expresses the idea that such activity is a good idea in the case of a missing little girl is a despicable s..mbag? Would you agree?
There is evidence gilet and it has been posted on here by DCI, but Admin / mods in their wisdom took the evidence down. Others will have it too and many of us saw the original boasts from Luz.
Commented on by Sykes also.
She not only tore down the posters thru Madeleines face, but also splashed paint all over the investigators telephone number and contact details ... to prevent anyone giving information to help find her
To prevent anyone giving information to help find her. Why? There has to be a reason., Hmmm? >@@(*&)
What a despicable way to treat a little girl who had been stolen from her parents.
And the sceptics/[ censored word ]s here claim that they are taking their stance for Madeleine ... Yeah, Right!
I agree totally with your word s..mbag, but I was politer calling her a toerag, for which I received 15 bad points and have just received a threat of banning. Maybe you all have, but it was timed for me
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There is evidence gilet and it has been posted on here by DCI, but Admin / mods in their wisdom took the evidence down. Others will have it too and many of us saw the original boasts from Luz.
Commented on by Sykes also.
She not only tore down the posters thru Madeleines face, but also splashed paint all over the investigators telephone number and contact details ... to prevent anyone giving information to help find her
To prevent anyone giving information to help find her. Why? There has to be a reason., Hmmm? >@@(*&)
What a despicable way to treat a little girl who had been stolen from her parents.
And the sceptics/[ censored word ]s here claim that they are taking their stance for Madeleine ... Yeah, Right!
I agree totally with your word s..mbag, but I was politer calling her a toerag, for which I received 15 bad points and have just received a threat of banning. Maybe you all have, but it was timed for me
Sadie. For the last time, boasting about doing something on a forum is not evidence that they did it. Please desist.
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Sadie. For the last time, boasting about doing something on a forum is not evidence that they did it. Please desist.
tut tut and its only Monday Sadie!! @)(++(*
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Well we know some posters were damaged.
So what was the purpose?
Was it to prevent information being given about the case?
Or was it simply because there were a number of sick individuals who could not bear to see attention being given to a missing little girl (maybe because she was not Portuguese)?
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Well we know some posters were damaged.
So what was the purpose?
Was it to prevent information being given about the case?
Or was it simply because there were a number of sick individuals who could not bear to see attention being given to a missing little girl (maybe because she was not Portuguese)?
Its a strange old world, the publicity generated by the defaced posters then and the libel case now is free publicity money couldn't pay for. ?{)(**
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Its a strange old world, the publicity generated by the defaced posters then and the libel case now is free publicity money couldn't pay for. ?{)(**
Cynicism of that nature gets you nowhere in the long run.
I suppose you think the McCanns paid all those Portuguese people to comment at the time of the posters.
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Cynicism of that nature gets you nowhere in the long run.
I suppose you think the McCanns paid all those Portuguese people to comment at the time of the posters.
No, what I am saying is there is no such thing as bad publicity gilet. 8)-)))
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No, what I am saying is there is no such thing as bad publicity gilet. 8)-)))
They say that Angelo, but it ain't true
Repeated bad publicity becomes disinformation and propaganda.
Propaganda is most damaging.
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Please dont call SIL Luz. That is an insult too far. S/he was the one that tore down and defaced the early posters of Madeleine appealing for information as to her whereabouts. Then bragged about it.
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Please dont call SIL Luz. That is an insult too far. S/he was the one that tore down and defaced the early posters of Madeleine appealing for information as to her whereabouts. Then bragged about it.
Is that right?
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Is that right?
Yes it is.
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Yes it is.
Tore thru Madeleines face and threw paint all over the contact details for anyone with info. Disgusting.
Obviously didn't want any infom getting thru IMO.
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Tore thru Madeleines face and threw paint all over the contact details for anyone with info. Disgusting.
Obviously didn't want any infom getting thru IMO.
Is this the large advertising board to the east of Luz that had paint on it when Gerry came back on the 1st anniversary?
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Is this the large advertising board to the east of Luz that had paint on it when Gerry came back on the 1st anniversary?
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00779/SNF13SPDA-682_779978a.jpg)
THOUGH splattered with paint her face is unmistakable.
This defaced billboard appealing for information about missing Madeleine McCann is on the main road into Praia da Luz, from where the little British girl vanished aged three on May 3, 2007.
One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster’s heartbreaking “Help me!” plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign’s hotline number.
As the second anniversary of her disappearance approaches, the spoiled hoarding is a chilling reflection on how locals in the seaside town feel towards Maddie still being in the news.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/2373773/How-Praia-da-Luz-turned-on-Maddie-McCann.html
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(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00779/SNF13SPDA-682_779978a.jpg)
THOUGH splattered with paint her face is unmistakable.
This defaced billboard appealing for information about missing Madeleine McCann is on the main road into Praia da Luz, from where the little British girl vanished aged three on May 3, 2007.
One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster’s heartbreaking “Help me!” plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign’s hotline number.
As the second anniversary of her disappearance approaches, the spoiled hoarding is a chilling reflection on how locals in the seaside town feel towards Maddie still being in the news.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/2373773/How-Praia-da-Luz-turned-on-Maddie-McCann.html
Has it ever occurred to you, just how many lives the actions of the Mccanns have disrupted, including Madeleine of course ?
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Has it ever occurred to you, just how many lives the actions of the Mccanns have disrupted, including Madeleine of course ?
I'm sorry.
I cannot see what the relationship is between your post and the fact that some saw fit to deface and rip down notices designed to help find Madeleine McCann ... at a time when the only searching for her was was being carried out by private detectives being paid for by the Madeleine Fund.
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Has it ever occurred to you, just how many lives the actions of the Mccanns have disrupted, including Madeleine of course ?
You prefer that Madeleine is NOT looked for ? You prefer that these expensive posters were destroyed so that people with information, could not find the number to pass on that info ?
Please dont tell me that it is Madeleine that you are supporting, because it will not wash anymore.
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You prefer that Madeleine is NOT looked for ? You prefer that these expensive posters were destroyed so that people with information, could not find the number to pass on that info ?
Please dont tell me that it is Madeleine that you are supporting, because it will not wash anymore.
Those who defaced the billboard clearly don't believe Madeleine was abducted. In that case the billboard could be seen as an attempt to point the finger of suspicion at the people of Luz.
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Those who defaced the billboard clearly don't believe Madeleine was abducted. In that case the billboard could be seen as an attempt to point the finger of suspicion at the people of Luz.
What a weak response, Gunit.
How could the people of Luz know what happened? More likely that the people behind an abduction would do such a thing.
They wouldn't want any witnesses reporting back to the investigators so they whipped up fervour, tore down posters and most especially blanked out the phone number.
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What a weak response, Gunit.
How could the people of Luz know what happened? More likely that the people behind an abduction would do such a thing.
They wouldn't want any witnesses reporting back to the investigators so they whipped up fervour, tore down posters and most especially blanked out the phone number.
Probably just sick to death of the whole issue.
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Probably just sick to death of the whole issue.
And that gave them licence to tear down images of a missing little girl?
Posters which were designed to bring in information to help find her. 8()(((@#
Sick barstewards. Morally bereft.
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What a weak response, Gunit.
How could the people of Luz know what happened? More likely that the people behind an abduction would do such a thing.
They wouldn't want any witnesses reporting back to the investigators so they whipped up fervour, tore down posters and most especially blanked out the phone number.
You can't use 'the abductor's' point of view to explain something until it's proved that an abduction took place.
I find it quite possible that the people of Luz objected to the billboard for other reasons. The same reasons they wrote this, I expect;
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/07/1404744702859_wps_1_General_view_of_the_stop_.jpg)
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And that gave them licence to tear down images of a missing little girl?
Posters which were designed to bring in information to help find her. 8()(((@#
Sick barstewards. Morally bereft.
There comes a point where those not closely involved in a child's death want to move on, they are not morally bereft, just want their lives to return to normal.
Do you concern yourself in seeking justice for the 60 children who died from deliberately inflicted injury, abuse or neglect in 2015?
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And that gave them licence to tear down images of a missing little girl?
Posters which were designed to bring in information to help find her. 8()(((@#
Sick barstewards. Morally bereft.
It all depends on your point of view. Your outrage stems from your passionate belief in the abduction hypothesis, but it's not an incontrovertible fact. You could be wrong, you know!
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You can't use 'the abductor's' point of view to explain something until it's proved that an abduction took place.
I find it quite possible that the people of Luz objected to the billboard for other reasons. The same reasons they wrote this, I expect;
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/07/1404744702859_wps_1_General_view_of_the_stop_.jpg)
Let's get this right, Gunit. That was not the action of "the people" of Luz.
That was the action of a tiny group of sickoes, or people who wanted the investigation to stop ... cos they were involved in some way?
Now you must excuse me, work to be done.
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Let's get this right, Gunit. That was not the action of "the people" of Luz.
That was the action of a tiny group of sickoes, or people who wanted the investigation to stop ... cos they were involved in some way?
Now you must excuse me, work to be done.
That is your belief Sadie and no more than that.
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You can't use 'the abductor's' point of view to explain something until it's proved that an abduction took place.
I find it quite possible that the people of Luz objected to the billboard for other reasons. The same reasons they wrote this, I expect;
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/07/1404744702859_wps_1_General_view_of_the_stop_.jpg)
Was there any other Madeleine news running around the date on the photo? 7 Jul 2014. The dig was over. When did the 4 get made arguidos?
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Was there any other Madeleine news running around the date on the photo? 7 Jul 2014. The dig was over. When did the 4 get made arguidos?
What are you thinking SIL ?
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What are you thinking SIL ?
Graffiti 1 and graffiti 3 were 'sloppy' or 'amateurish'.
Graffiti 2 was relatively professional, and UK media were on it like a flash.
So I wonder how it fits in with what was going on in the media at the time.
For the record, I have not heard any feedback in Luz about any of these pieces of graffiti. This is odd, in the sense that people like to let on they are in the know, whether they are or not.
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I must confess I was upset at seeing little Maddies face covered in paint on that poster- if it were the parents and directed at them then that is one way to show disafection of their presence in PDL- the stop sign is more in keeping with showing dissatisfaction at the way the poeple of PDL were being tarished by the Tapas crew. It really is strange how people turned against them so quickly for a couple who had their daughter 'abducted' while they sat in a garden like place...
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I must confess I was upset at seeing little Maddies face covered in paint on that poster- if it were the parents and directed at them then that is one way to show disafection of their presence in PDL- the stop sign is more in keeping with showing dissatisfaction at the way the poeple of PDL were being tarished by the Tapas crew. It really is strange how people turned against them so quickly for a couple who had their daughter 'abducted' while they sat in a garden like place...
It is apt to happen once you start playing the man rather than the ball. And the risk there is it may give rise to thoughts like "if they're having to resort to playing the man, what do they have?"
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I must confess I was upset at seeing little Maddies face covered in paint on that poster- if it were the parents and directed at them then that is one way to show disafection of their presence in PDL- the stop sign is more in keeping with showing dissatisfaction at the way the poeple of PDL were being tarished by the Tapas crew. It really is strange how people turned against them so quickly for a couple who had their daughter 'abducted' while they sat in a garden like place...
Cite please to back up your claim that the people of PDL were being tarished? (trashed?/tarnished?) by the Tapas crew.
IIRC it was the tapas group whose reputation was being trashed by the person who took it upon himself to announce to the general public the massive lie that they were 'swingers'.
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Graffiti 1 and graffiti 3 were 'sloppy' or 'amateurish'.
Graffiti 2 was relatively professional, and UK media were on it like a flash.
So I wonder how it fits in with what was going on in the media at the time.
For the record, I have not heard any feedback in Luz about any of these pieces of graffiti. This is odd, in the sense that people like to let on they are in the know, whether they are or not.
Drop the dead donkey...
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Let's get this right, Gunit. That was not the action of "the people" of Luz.
That was the action of a tiny group of sickoes, or people who wanted the investigation to stop ... cos they were involved in some way?
Now you must excuse me, work to be done.
You have no more idea than I do who did the graffiti. You have no factual basis for the things you say. We know, because SIL has told us, that the people of Luz aren't interested; they've moved on and I don't blame them. either.
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Graffiti 1 and graffiti 3 were 'sloppy' or 'amateurish'.
Graffiti 2 was relatively professional, and UK media were on it like a flash.
So I wonder how it fits in with what was going on in the media at the time.
For the record, I have not heard any feedback in Luz about any of these pieces of graffiti. This is odd, in the sense that people like to let on they are in the know, whether they are or not.
Thanks for the response SIL.
I am not clear by what you mean with Graffiti 1, 2 and 3
Are you talking the defaced posters asking for information to help bring Madeleine back ... or are you talking about the altered road signs ... or both of them
If the last I am still not clear.
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Thanks for the response SIL.
I am not clear by what you mean with Graffiti 1, 2 and 3
Are you talking the defaced posters asking for information to help bring Madeleine back ... or are you talking about the altered road signs ... or both of them
If the last I am still not clear.
Graffiti 1 - the defaced advertising board to the east of Luz in April 2009.
Graffiti 2 - STOP mccann circus, in July 2014
Graffiti 3 - The parents killed Madeleine, stupid English police, in June 2014.
Thanks for this Sadie. I now realise I need to swap 2 and 3 to fit the timing.
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Graffiti 1 - the defaced advertising board to the east of Luz in April 2009.
Graffiti 2 - STOP mccann circus, in July 2014
Graffiti 3 - The parents killed Madeleine, stupid English police, in June 2014.
Thanks for this Sadie. I now realise I need to swap 2 and 3 to fit the timing.
Thanks SIL
I have never seen Graffiti 3. Didn't know that had happened. What a dreadful and libellous thing to put up!
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Thanks SIL
I have never seen Graffiti 3. Didn't know that had happened. What a dreadful and libellous thing to put up!
Yes, I saw the full graffiti.
The UK press cropped it to only show the "stupid police" bit.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/11/article-2654890-1EA9CA5200000578-996_634x394.jpg)
One of Amaral's fan club had objected to "censorship" at the time and posted a photo of the full spray-painted message.
ETA. Found it:
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01997/SNN1209GX2_1997797a.jpg)
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Thanks SIL
I have never seen Graffiti 3. Didn't know that had happened. What a dreadful and libellous thing to put up!
Id imagine the graffiti writers didnt give a rats arse about being taken to court lolol
This is what can happen when you court the whole worlds media
Mccanns reaped the whirlwind, they should take the rough with the smooth and not complain
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Id imagine the graffiti writers didnt give a rats arse about being taken to court lolol
This is what can happen when you court the whole worlds media
Mccanns reaped the whirlwind, they should take the rough with the smooth and not complain
I doubt they would be, but if they were I doubt that in Portuguese Courts anything would happen to them. Seems anyone can say what they like in PT, true or untrue, and get away with it.
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I doubt they would be, but if they were I doubt that in Portuguese Courts anything would happen to them. Seems anyone can say what they like in PT, true or untrue, and get away with it.
Dont be so silly
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Dont be so silly
Not so much of the abuse if you dont mind.
PT seems to have very loose libel Laws. Surely you have noticed how Amaral has got away with it ?
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Here is the site of the defaced poster in August 2009 when the Google van passed by. In truth, so sad, the posters have disappeared just like Madeleine.
(http://i.imgur.com/nigLtxs.jpg)
https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=37.098832,-8.714025&spn=0.006692,0.033023&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.098834,-8.718115&panoid=5qFCS8E_S7YcPynzgWojtA&cbp=11,193.33,,0,7.74
Just a reminder...all that was left in 2009 of the Madeleine billboard and poster asking for help.
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00779/SNF13SPDA-682_779978a.jpg)
This defaced billboard appealing for information about missing Madeleine McCann was on the main road into Praia da Luz, from where the little British girl vanished aged three on May 3, 2007.
One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster's heartbreaking "Help me!" plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign's hotline number.
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Not so much of the abuse if you dont mind.
PT seems to have very loose libel Laws. Surely you have noticed how Amaral has got away with it ?
If calling your comments silly is abusive you will surely be flagellating yourself by now sadie for some of the awful stuff you direct personally on so many posters, lol
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Just a reminder...all that was left in 2009 of the Madeleine billboard and poster asking for help.
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00779/SNF13SPDA-682_779978a.jpg)
This defaced billboard appealing for information about missing Madeleine McCann was on the main road into Praia da Luz, from where the little British girl vanished aged three on May 3, 2007.
One day after it was put up sick vandals ignored the Maddie poster's heartbreaking "Help me!" plea — and instead maliciously obscured the campaign's hotline number.
No one knows who did it and why
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No one knows who did it and why
I assume the Portuguese police never prosecuted anyone for doing it. Just image it was your child who had disappeared and then this vandalism to add insult to injury...appallingly bad taste whoever was responsible.
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I assume the Portuguese police never prosecuted anyone for doing it. Just image it was your child who had disappeared and then this vandalism to add insult to injury...appallingly bad taste whoever was responsible.
It would indeed add insult to injury if the parents were universally acknowledged as completely innocent, but they aren't. Hence the vandalism. It doesn't make the vandalism right, but it makes it understandable.
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I assume the Portuguese police never prosecuted anyone for doing it. Just image it was your child who had disappeared and then this vandalism to add insult to injury...appallingly bad taste whoever was responsible.
What would you suggest the appropriate charge might be ?
Was this a private advert board set up on behalf of the McCanns or a police advert?
It's easy to get emotive, but was a criminal act involved?
Do police usually get involved in defacement of hoardings etc ?
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It would indeed add insult to injury if the parents were universally acknowledged as completely innocent, but they aren't. Hence the vandalism. It doesn't make the vandalism right, but it makes it understandable.
I find it inexplicable that anyone would even attempt to justify the cruel actions of someone who, having appointed themselves judge and jury in a missing child case, then arrogantly decided that she should receive no help from the public and did their best to make sure she didn't get any.
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I find it inexplicable that anyone would even attempt to justify the cruel actions of someone who, having appointed themselves judge and jury in a missing child case, then arrogantly decided that she should receive no help from the public and did their best to make sure she didn't get any.
Madeleine has been searched for to no avail.
I'm afraid the mantra that '......she should receive no help from the public....' didn't and doesn't wash.
DOES IT.
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Here's a thought.
If a Portuguese child had gone missing in the UK on holiday, would :
1. The case still be in the news ?
2. Would posters still be up after nearly 10 years ?
3. Have posters on billboards never , ever been vandalized before ?
4. It isn't Madeleine, the people who did the vandalizing are angry with, it's her PARENTS.
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What would you suggest the appropriate charge might be ?
Was this a private advert board set up on behalf of the McCanns or a police advert?
It's easy to get emotive, but was a criminal act involved?
Do police usually get involved in defacement of hoardings etc ?
Criminal damage is universally recognised in any language.
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It would indeed add insult to injury if the parents were universally acknowledged as completely innocent, but they aren't. Hence the vandalism. It doesn't make the vandalism right, but it makes it understandable.
What is understandable is that there are mindless hooligans running around PdL damaging posters and daubing graffiti on traffic signs and the police have failed to stop it.
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What is understandable is that there are mindless hooligans running around PdL damaging posters and daubing graffiti on traffic signs and the police have failed to stop it.
....and what happens all around the world Angelo.
Hardly unique to Portugal.
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....and what happens all around the world Angelo.
Hardly unique to Portugal.
Can you cite any other missing child poster which has attracted such hate or is this case unique after all?
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What is understandable is that there are mindless hooligans running around PdL damaging posters and daubing graffiti on traffic signs and the police have failed to stop it.
Did you mean, what is understandable?
Or is not? (understandable!)
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What is understandable is that there are mindless hooligans running around PdL damaging posters and daubing graffiti on traffic signs and the police have failed to stop it.
This is true. In my younger days along with about 90% of the juvenile male population of the time we shot at signs and hoardings with catapults, air rifles and air pistols.
Not that long ago in SA along the road from Jo'burg to Pilanesburg the signs and hoardings were shot at with rifles and hand guns and if there was an animal slihouette on said sign or hoarding it looked it like a colander in short time.
A sign or hoarding is a target one way or another. The question here is the motivation. Prove it was due to malice against the McCanns .......... &%+((£
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This is true. In my younger days along with about 90% of the juvenile male population of the time we shot at signs and hoardings with catapults, air rifles and air pistols.
Not that long ago in SA along the road from Jo'burg to Pilanesburg the signs and hoardings were shot at with rifles and hand guns and if there was an animal slihouette on said sign or hoarding it looked it like a colander in short time.
A sign or hoarding is a target one way or another. The question here is the motivation. Prove it was due to malice against the McCanns .......... &%+((£
Is daubing "mcann circus" on traffic signs not somewhat self evidencing?
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Can you cite any other missing child poster which has attracted such hate or is this case unique after all?
It's not hatred of Madeleine.
More loathing and dislike for her parenylts Angelo
After all, their actions initiated this case.
Likewise the UK tabloid press which has frequently insulted the Portuguese bears responsibility as well.
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Here's a thought.
If a Portuguese child had gone missing in the UK on holiday, would :
1. The case still be in the news ?
2. Would posters still be up after nearly 10 years ?
3. Have posters on billboards never , ever been vandalized before ?
4. It isn't Madeleine, the people who did the vandalizing are angry with, it's her PARENTS.
Defacing posters publicising a missing child really is the lowest of the low. The defaced image of Madeleine John posted was from 2009.
In the hypothetical scenario you suggest, I doubt very much if it would have been necessary for the parents of the missing child to employ private detectives to pursue their own investigation into their missing child's case.
The police would have attended to each aspect of the child's disappearance in exactly the same manner in which all cases of missing children are dealt with, obviating the requirement for the victim's family to devise their own strategy.
On those occasions when police investigations are unsuccessful absolutely no-one faults the families for keeping the case alive. In Keith Bennett's case all his mother wanted was for his body to be found so that she could bury him properly ... no-one castigated her for that, nor would they.
Why are the McCanns castigated for trying to find their daughter who may well be alive ... why are there campaigns to stop them from looking?
(http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7680/17161731609_16aab3396c_m.jpg)
Weather-beaten memorial to Moors-murder victim Keith Bennett at Wessenden Head, West Yorkshire
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Is daubing "mcann circus" on traffic signs not somewhat self evidencing?
That much of it is.
But I would suggest all defacing of all signs isn't.
Most folk find what they are they looking for and bother not about looking further.
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It's not hatred of Madeleine.
More loathing and dislike for her parenylts Angelo
After all, their actions initiated this case.
Likewise the UK tabloid press which has frequently insulted the Portuguese bears responsibility as well.
So you justify the defacing of posters trying to find information about maddies disappearance
That just about sums up the morality of the sceptics
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One of the linked topics points to this story in the UK media http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-465825/Madeleine-cinema-advert-upsets-Shrek-audiences.html
In July 2007, Shrek 3 opened, deemed suitable for those aged 4 and over. (Does such a film category exist?)
In front of it, there was a 90s advert, which stated that Madeleine had been snatched.
UK parents complained that this was upsetting for their children, making them fear they could be snatched too.
So the advert was removed from the front of Shrek 3, though it remained on other films.
What I find odd is the imbalance. That UK children are to be protected from Madeleine, with no public outcry, yet it is OK to flood Luz with the same concept two years on, and all in Luz are supposed to accept it.
8()-000(
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One of the linked topics points to this story in the UK media http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-465825/Madeleine-cinema-advert-upsets-Shrek-audiences.html
In July 2007, Shrek 3 opened, deemed suitable for those aged 4 and over. (Does such a film category exist?)
In front of it, there was a 90s advert, which stated that Madeleine had been snatched.
UK parents complained that this was upsetting for their children, making them fear they could be snatched too.
So the advert was removed from the front of Shrek 3, though it remained on other films.
What I find odd is the imbalance. That UK children are to be protected from Madeleine, with no public outcry, yet it is OK to flood Luz with the same concept two years on, and all in Luz are supposed to accept it.
8()-000(
You find it odd because of your preconceived viewpoint
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Defacing posters publicising a missing child really is the lowest of the low. The defaced image of Madeleine John posted was from 2009.
In the hypothetical scenario you suggest, I doubt very much if it would have been necessary for the parents of the missing child to employ private detectives to pursue their own investigation into their missing child's case.
The police would have attended to each aspect of the child's disappearance in exactly the same manner in which all cases of missing children are dealt with, obviating the requirement for the victim's family to devise their own strategy.
On those occasions when police investigations are unsuccessful absolutely no-one faults the families for keeping the case alive. In Keith Bennett's case all his mother wanted was for his body to be found so that she could bury him properly ... no-one castigated her for that, nor would they.
Why are the McCanns castigated for trying to find their daughter who may well be alive ... why are there campaigns to stop them from looking?
(http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7680/17161731609_16aab3396c_m.jpg)
Weather-beaten memorial to Moors-murder victim Keith Bennett at Wessenden Head, West Yorkshire
Two, but not limited to two, possiblities here :
1.You don't see the difference.
2.You do see the difference but think everyone else is too kin thick to.
Faites vos jeux.
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One of the linked topics points to this story in the UK media http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-465825/Madeleine-cinema-advert-upsets-Shrek-audiences.html
In July 2007, Shrek 3 opened, deemed suitable for those aged 4 and over. (Does such a film category exist?)
In front of it, there was a 90s advert, which stated that Madeleine had been snatched.
UK parents complained that this was upsetting for their children, making them fear they could be snatched too.
So the advert was removed from the front of Shrek 3, though it remained on other films.
What I find odd is the imbalance. That UK children are to be protected from Madeleine, with no public outcry, yet it is OK to flood Luz with the same concept two years on, and all in Luz are supposed to accept it.
8()-000(
A picture of a child on a poster or billboard will barely attract the passing attention of those who can barely read the displayed words.
An audio narrative shown in conjunction with pictures on a large cinema screen has a much greater impact.
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Almost all the Ocean Club employees would have been on contract for the season
No more
So the talk of mass redundecies is bogus
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Almost all the Ocean Club employees would have been on contract for the season
No more
So the talk of mass redundecies is bogus
I take it you have no idea how employment works here.
Since there was more than one take on these lay-offs, you are going to have to supply something more solid than this.
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It isn't a fact that Madeleine McCann was abducted. If she wasn't, no amount of appeals will bring her back. She may have the right to be looked for, but does that override the right of others to live in peace? Must they be forever harangued because a child disappeared from their town?
Just when the local people thought it had gone away, it came back;
The initial focus of 'the search for Madeleine' was international. After two years the focus, driven by Dave Edgar, returned to the place where she disappeared. A new campaign was launched;
''Around 10,000 leaflets are being handed out and posted through letterboxes in Praia da Luz and the nearby towns of Lagos and Burgau.
The Algarve campaign is being backed by billboards, posters and advertising on local buses.
The appeal has been criticised by part of the local population who have dismissed it as a waste of time and claim it is affecting the resort's image.
Resident Maria Afonso said: "It's stupid to think this campaign will bring Madeleine back two years after she disappeared. It's just sullying the reputation of the Algarve." Local Rute Fernandes added: "It's a waste of time. "There's not a single person on the Algarve that is unaware of this case and doesn't know who Madeleine McCann was."'
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/23-MARCH9/TELEGRAPH_26_03_09.htm
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No one knows who did it and why
I dont know where you would find them now, but the poster Luz was on record of bragging that s/he had defaced the posters.
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I dont know where you would find them now, but the poster Luz was on record of bragging that s/he had defaced the posters.
Even if true doubt their motivation was to stop the missing child being found as alledged
If a child was abducted from two doors down from your house would you be happy with endless years of posters being stuck on your house? Especially in a "circus" situation? And in a situation where the parents of said missing chikd were suspects? I doubt it very much
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I take it you have no idea how employment works here.
Since there was more than one take on these lay-offs, you are going to have to supply something more solid than this.
Perhaps you would like to supply something more solid
The OC was not open all year round so most employees would be on a casual basis
Nothing to substantiate redundancies has ever been produced but has been blindly accepted
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Perhaps you would like to supply something more solid
The OC was not open all year round so most employees would be on a casual basis
Nothing to substantiate redundancies has ever been produced but has been blindly accepted
Make up your mind as to whether they were on contract so lay-offs did not happen, or whether they were on a casual basis therefore termination does not constitute redundancy.
It's called waffling.
At the START of the 2009 season, 21 people were told they had no job. Any reasonable person would equate that to redundancy, with or without a contract.
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Even if true doubt their motivation was to stop the missing child being found as alledged
If a child was abducted from two doors down from your house would you be happy with endless years of posters being stuck on your house? Especially in a "circus" situation? And in a situation where the parents of said missing chikd were suspects? I doubt it very much
How many were stuck on houses? Cite please.
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Make up your mind as to whether they were on contract so lay-offs did not happen, or whether they were on a casual basis therefore termination does not constitute redundancy.
It's called waffling.
At the START of the 2009 season, 21 people were told they had no job. Any reasonable person would equate that to redundancy, with or without a contract.
It amazes me how people will argue black is white over the most trivial of matters.
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Make up your mind as to whether they were on contract so lay-offs did not happen, or whether they were on a casual basis therefore termination does not constitute redundancy.
It's called waffling.
At the START of the 2009 season, 21 people were told they had no job. Any reasonable person would equate that to redundancy, with or without a contract.
Unless you can provide a cite to back up your claim then you are waffling
Go ahead and try not to be so rude
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In a thread with the word -redundancies- in the title, it would help if you read the links on how this was reported.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/2373773/How-Praia-da-Luz-turned-on-Maddie-McCann.html
This appears earlier in this topic. Dated 13 Apr 2009, it covers the billboard, the posters, Gerrys return to Luz to help make Madeleine Was Here, and the 21 Ocean Club staff being laid off.
~Emotions are especially high at the Ocean Club complex from where she disappeared, where 21 employees have been sacked due to a downturn in trade.
The first line in the letters of dismissal blamed negative publicity caused by Maddie vanishing. Some workers heckled dad Gerry McCann, 40, during his recent surprise visit to film a reconstruction of events. Others are said to be considering legal action against the family for loss of income.
A middle-aged barmaid at the development’s empty tapas bar — which should be bustling with British tourists during the Easter holidays — revealed she is among those being let go on May 9.~
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In a thread with the word -redundancies- in the title, it would help if you read the links on how this was reported.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/2373773/How-Praia-da-Luz-turned-on-Maddie-McCann.html
This appears earlier in this topic. Dated 13 Apr 2009, it covers the billboard, the posters, Gerrys return to Luz to help make Madeleine Was Here, and the 21 Ocean Club staff being laid off.
~Emotions are especially high at the Ocean Club complex from where she disappeared, where 21 employees have been sacked due to a downturn in trade.
The first line in the letters of dismissal blamed negative publicity caused by Maddie vanishing. Some workers heckled dad Gerry McCann, 40, during his recent surprise visit to film a reconstruction of events. Others are said to be considering legal action against the family for loss of income.
A middle-aged barmaid at the development’s empty tapas bar — which should be bustling with British tourists during the Easter holidays — revealed she is among those being let go on May 9.~
So you are basing your claim on a newspaper article in the Scottish Sun
Is this your only source
Need I point out to you how unreliable these articles are
It seems I do
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In a thread with the word -redundancies- in the title, it would help if you read the links on how this was reported.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/2373773/How-Praia-da-Luz-turned-on-Maddie-McCann.html
This appears earlier in this topic. Dated 13 Apr 2009, it covers the billboard, the posters, Gerrys return to Luz to help make Madeleine Was Here, and the 21 Ocean Club staff being laid off.
~Emotions are especially high at the Ocean Club complex from where she disappeared, where 21 employees have been sacked due to a downturn in trade.
The first line in the letters of dismissal blamed negative publicity caused by Maddie vanishing. Some workers heckled dad Gerry McCann, 40, during his recent surprise visit to film a reconstruction of events. Others are said to be considering legal action against the family for loss of income.
A middle-aged barmaid at the development’s empty tapas bar — which should be bustling with British tourists during the Easter holidays — revealed she is among those being let go on May 9.~
I just need to clarify the situation
When the papers write about you it's all lies
But at all other times it's true
That won't wash
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I just need to clarify the situation
When the papers write about you it's all lies
But at all other times it's true
That won't wash
What the papers wrote about me wasn't all lies. Fortunately, they got some key bits correct, one being that I do not charge for tours.
Since the original source, The Mirror, had not spoken to me, they were forced to invent large chunks. One example is that I take people inside the church, when I have never been inside the church in my life.
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So you are basing your claim on a newspaper article in the Scottish Sun
Is this your only source
Need I point out to you how unreliable these articles are
It seems I do
The article is accurate in all other respects.
But if you choose to accept the bits that support the McCanns whilst you reject the bits that cast aspersions in the directions of the McCanns it simply means you are using dyed-in-the-wool McCann supporter tactics.
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How many were stuck on houses? Cite please.
Never asserted any were, youre missing the point
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Never asserted any were, youre missing the point
You are twisting words mercury.
You said,
Even if true doubt their motivation was to stop the missing child being found as alledged
If a child was abducted from two doors down from your house would you be happy with endless years of posters being stuck on your house? Especially in a "circus" situation? And in a situation where the parents of said missing chikd were suspects? I doubt it very much
You intimated that the posters WERE stuck on houses.
In my book that is malpractice. Twisting of words to make an untruth. ?8)@)-)
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You are twisting words mercury.
You said,
You intimated that the posters WERE stuck on houses.
In my book that is malpractice. Twisting of words to make an untruth. ?8)@)-)
It was an illustration, an example, most half intelligent people will have understood the reference.
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It was an illustration, an example, most half intelligent people will have understood the reference.
No, they would not.
No houses had posters stuck to them to my knowledge ... nor to yours either it appears, cos you cant provide a cite.
Please do not make things up, it is misleading.
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What the papers wrote about me wasn't all lies. Fortunately, they got some key bits correct, one being that I do not charge for tours.
Since the original source, The Mirror, had not spoken to me, they were forced to invent large chunks. One example is that I take people inside the church, when I have never been inside the church in my life.
So the paper invented large chunks but you believe what is written in this case
You prove my point
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So the paper invented large chunks but you believe what is written in this case
You prove my point
You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.
The Mirror never spoke to me and wrote a story from Manchester or London, or wherever the Mirror is based, but certainly not in Luz.
The 21 lay-offs article came from a reporter on the scene in Luz, and the same story is reported by other sources. Easy to Google, but I dare say you will do as per norm and see no (McCann) evil.
21 people had good reason to feel anger towards the McCanns. A McCann billboard got vandalised.
Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters. The thread title says it all.
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You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.
The Mirror never spoke to me and wrote a story from Manchester or London, or wherever the Mirror is based, but certainly not in Luz.
The 21 lay-offs article came from a reporter on the scene in Luz, and the same story is reported by other sources. Easy to Google, but I dare say you will do as per norm and see no (McCann) evil.
21 people had good reason to feel anger towards the McCanns. A McCann billboard got vandalised.
Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters. The thread title says it all.
You have only given one cite to support redundancies
A tabloid
You don't know how reliable this story is
Simple
Most of us realise tabloids cannot be trusted
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You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.
The Mirror never spoke to me and wrote a story from Manchester or London, or wherever the Mirror is based, but certainly not in Luz.
The 21 lay-offs article came from a reporter on the scene in Luz, and the same story is reported by other sources. Easy to Google, but I dare say you will do as per norm and see no (McCann) evil.
21 people had good reason to feel anger towards the McCanns. A McCann billboard got vandalised.
Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters. The thread title says it all.
There was a worldwide financial crash of the money markets occurring during the period under discussion. To blame the effects of that on the local economy in Luz in relation to Madeleine's disappearance is in my opinion absolutely ludicrous. It is more than likely that Mark Warner's venture into the Ocean Club was hit by the knock on collapse of the sub-prime mortgage debacle.
There is no excusing those in Luz who have taken it upon themselves to obstruct anything which may jog peoples' memories or even consciences.
Whatever the thoughts about Madeleine's parents ... she is the one who is being targeted by the vandalism.
Madeleine vanished from holiday accommodation in Luz.
The person or persons who took her may still have an association with Luz ... and these are the people who have the most to gain if Madeleine were to be erased from public consciousness as many would like her to be.
I vehemently disagree with you that anyone in Luz - let alone the twenty one you mention - have any reason whatsoever let alone a good one for feeling any anger towards the McCanns.
If anyone of your acquaintance is irrational enough to do so ... it might be worth asking how far that anger includes Madeleine particularly as the Luz Banksy is very keen to make sure her name is brought into disrepute or forgotten.
(http://vse-katalogi.ru/p/3/gornichnaya_308x192.jpg)
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You have only given one cite to support redundancies
A tabloid
You don't know how reliable this story is
Simple
Most of us realise tabloids cannot be trusted
As I said, if you are too lazy to Google it, you are too lazy.
-
There was a worldwide financial crash of the money markets occurring during the period under discussion. To blame the effects of that on the local economy in Luz in relation to Madeleine's disappearance is in my opinion absolutely ludicrous. It is more than likely that Mark Warner's venture into the Ocean Club was hit by the knock on collapse of the sub-prime mortgage debacle.
There is no excusing those in Luz who have taken it upon themselves to obstruct anything which may jog peoples' memories or even consciences.
Whatever the thoughts about Madeleine's parents ... she is the one who is being targeted by the vandalism.
Madeleine vanished from holiday accommodation in Luz.
The person or persons who took her may still have an association with Luz ... and these are the people who have the most to gain if Madeleine were to be erased from public consciousness as many would like her to be.
I vehemently disagree with you that anyone in Luz - let alone the twenty one you mention - have any reason whatsoever let alone a good one for feeling any anger towards the McCanns.
If anyone of your acquaintance is irrational enough to do so ... it might be worth asking how far that anger includes Madeleine particularly as the Luz Banksy is very keen to make sure her name is brought into disrepute or forgotten.
(http://vse-katalogi.ru/p/3/gornichnaya_308x192.jpg)
Whatever led to the failure of Mark Warner's foray into the Ocean Club, from a local perspective the problems were the result of the disappearance Madeleine McCann. Mark Warner seemed to share that 'ludicrous' opinion;
The holiday company at the centre of the Madeleine McCann disappearance has launched a legal action against its insurers to recover lost earnings.
Mark Warner says holidaymakers stayed away from its Praia da Luz resort in Portugal because of the huge media coverage of the disappearance of Madeleine, then aged three, almost two years ago.....The Mark Warner spokesman said yesterday: "It is a matter of public record that Mark Warner's bookings to Portugal were affected by events nearly two years ago
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/04/madeleine-mcann-disappearance-holiday-resort
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There was a worldwide financial crash of the money markets occurring during the period under discussion. To blame the effects of that on the local economy in Luz in relation to Madeleine's disappearance is in my opinion absolutely ludicrous. It is more than likely that Mark Warner's venture into the Ocean Club was hit by the knock on collapse of the sub-prime mortgage debacle.
There is no excusing those in Luz who have taken it upon themselves to obstruct anything which may jog peoples' memories or even consciences.
Whatever the thoughts about Madeleine's parents ... she is the one who is being targeted by the vandalism.
Madeleine vanished from holiday accommodation in Luz.
The person or persons who took her may still have an association with Luz ... and these are the people who have the most to gain if Madeleine were to be erased from public consciousness as many would like her to be.
I vehemently disagree with you that anyone in Luz - let alone the twenty one you mention - have any reason whatsoever let alone a good one for feeling any anger towards the McCanns.
If anyone of your acquaintance is irrational enough to do so ... it might be worth asking how far that anger includes Madeleine particularly as the Luz Banksy is very keen to make sure her name is brought into disrepute or forgotten.
(http://vse-katalogi.ru/p/3/gornichnaya_308x192.jpg)
Personally, I have no idea what component of the OC issues was due to the Madeleine effect, though I doubt it was zero.
And, not having seen a lay-off letter, I cannot state with certainty that the letter started by linking the lay-offs to Madeleine.
However, McCann supporters in this thread seem remarkably devoid of empathy for the 21 people who suffered significantly as this time, with one even trying to deny it happened.
There was no absolute right of the McCanns to trample Luz underfoot then, just as there was no absolute right of Operation Grange to trample Luz underfoot in June 2014, make people arguidos based on what in July 2014, or haul 10 people to Faro and expose them to the media in Dec 2014.
If you think otherwise, you are seriously disconnected about what happens when significant numbers of people are made to suffer through no fault of their own.
The leaflets and posters of that time were dumb, in the extreme. They were always likely to provoke hostility, and if Team McCann could not foresee that, it is yet another error on their part.
I did a blog entry on this subject without realising this thread existed. I wish I had known because it would have saved me hours of effort and would have clarified quite a few points.
After reading this thread and a linked thread on the same subject, I am of the opinion the motivation for the defacement was not to prevent communication of information. It doesn't achieve that because the poster is in Portuguese and anyone here would recognise that the number is 800 etc etc - a Freephone number. The number could have been obliterated very easily but it wasn't.
There was no need to fleck Madeleine's photo with paint if the aim was to halt communication.
Therefore, I am now of the opinion that the act was designed to go through the media, thus ensuring the McCanns had to be aware of it.
It is a message from someone saying f off to the McCanns.
Whether you agree or disagree with the message, people who were fed up with or angry at the McCanns were entitled to their opinion. The issue was how to express it. The McCanns stuck posters up, without consulting the people of Luz. Someone in Luz chose poster defacement to express their opinion of it.
The McCanns could have used the money to place the same 'advert' in one or more of the newspapers, reaching not just the Algarve but the whole of Portugal. Instead, they chose to blitz Luz. I wonder how much cooperation they expected to get from the people they were blitzing? It was unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling. A very poor choice indeed.
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Personally, I have no idea what component of the OC issues was due to the Madeleine effect, though I doubt it was zero.
And, not having seen a lay-off letter, I cannot state with certainty that the letter started by linking the lay-offs to Madeleine.
However, McCann supporters in this thread seem remarkably devoid of empathy for the 21 people who suffered significantly as this time, with one even trying to deny it happened.
There was no absolute right of the McCanns to trample Luz underfoot then, just as there was no absolute right of Operation Grange to trample Luz underfoot in June 2014, make people arguidos based on what in July 2014, or haul 10 people to Faro and expose them to the media in Dec 2014.
If you think otherwise, you are seriously disconnected about what happens when significant numbers of people are made to suffer through no fault of their own.
The leaflets and posters of that time were dumb, in the extreme. They were always likely to provoke hostility, and if Team McCann could not foresee that, it is yet another error on their part.
I did a blog entry on this subject without realising this thread existed. I wish I had known because it would have saved me hours of effort and would have clarified quite a few points.
After reading this thread and a linked thread on the same subject, I am of the opinion the motivation for the defacement was not to prevent communication of information. It doesn't achieve that because the poster is in Portuguese and anyone here would recognise that the number is 800 etc etc - a Freephone number. The number could have been obliterated very easily but it wasn't.
There was no need to fleck Madeleine's photo with paint if the aim was to halt communication.
Therefore, I am now of the opinion that the act was designed to go through the media, thus ensuring the McCanns had to be aware of it.
It is a message from someone saying f off to the McCanns.
Whether you agree or disagree with the message, people who were fed up with or angry at the McCanns were entitled to their opinion. The issue was how to express it. The McCanns stuck posters up, without consulting the people of Luz. Someone in Luz chose poster defacement to express their opinion of it.
The McCanns could have used the money to place the same 'advert' in one or more of the newspapers, reaching not just the Algarve but the whole of Portugal. Instead, they chose to blitz Luz. I wonder how much cooperation they expected to get from the people they were blitzing? It was unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling. A very poor choice indeed.
May I suggest that your comment is unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling.
If you had lost a child, as I did, maybe you would understand the desperation better
Any reasonable person with any knowledge would have responded to the posters .... but perhaps not only were the posters unreadable in many cases BUT also seeing the venom that had been needed to destry them, perhaps they were too frightened to respond.
An opportunity lost.
Have you any suggestions as to how the Mccanns could have satisfactirily consulted the people of Pdl ? All suggestions on a stamp please.
The paint was thrown at the contact number ... and it did a damned good job of obliterating it.... before the vandal cleared off at the double.
Hard enough when driving along such a road to get the number without that splattered all over it. The vandalism WAS designed to prevent people reporting anything they saw. No doubt about it .
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Personally, I have no idea what component of the OC issues was due to the Madeleine effect, though I doubt it was zero.
And, not having seen a lay-off letter, I cannot state with certainty that the letter started by linking the lay-offs to Madeleine.
However, McCann supporters in this thread seem remarkably devoid of empathy for the 21 people who suffered significantly as this time, with one even trying to deny it happened.
There was no absolute right of the McCanns to trample Luz underfoot then, just as there was no absolute right of Operation Grange to trample Luz underfoot in June 2014, make people arguidos based on what in July 2014, or haul 10 people to Faro and expose them to the media in Dec 2014.
If you think otherwise, you are seriously disconnected about what happens when significant numbers of people are made to suffer through no fault of their own.
The leaflets and posters of that time were dumb, in the extreme. They were always likely to provoke hostility, and if Team McCann could not foresee that, it is yet another error on their part.
I did a blog entry on this subject without realising this thread existed. I wish I had known because it would have saved me hours of effort and would have clarified quite a few points.
After reading this thread and a linked thread on the same subject, I am of the opinion the motivation for the defacement was not to prevent communication of information. It doesn't achieve that because the poster is in Portuguese and anyone here would recognise that the number is 800 etc etc - a Freephone number. The number could have been obliterated very easily but it wasn't.
There was no need to fleck Madeleine's photo with paint if the aim was to halt communication.
Therefore, I am now of the opinion that the act was designed to go through the media, thus ensuring the McCanns had to be aware of it.
It is a message from someone saying f off to the McCanns.
Whether you agree or disagree with the message, people who were fed up with or angry at the McCanns were entitled to their opinion. The issue was how to express it. The McCanns stuck posters up, without consulting the people of Luz. Someone in Luz chose poster defacement to express their opinion of it.
The McCanns could have used the money to place the same 'advert' in one or more of the newspapers, reaching not just the Algarve but the whole of Portugal. Instead, they chose to blitz Luz. I wonder how much cooperation they expected to get from the people they were blitzing? It was unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling. A very poor choice indeed.
Equating the loss of a job to the loss of a child
I'm surprised the McCanns didn't jump at the chance of working with you
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May I suggest that your comment is unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling.
If you had lost a child, as I did, maybe you would understand the desperation better
Any reasonable person with any knowledge would have responded to the posters .... but perhaps not only were the posters unreadable in many cases BUT also seeing the venom that had been needed to destry them, perhaps they were too frightened to respond.
An opportunity lost.
Have you any suggestions as to how the Mccanns could have satisfactirily consulted the people of Pdl ? All suggestions on a stamp please.
The paint was thrown at the contact number ... and it did a damned good job of obliterating it.... before the vandal cleared off at the double.
Hard enough when driving along such a road to get the number without that splattered all over it. The vandalism WAS designed to prevent people reporting anything they saw. No doubt about it .
Since you repeatedly request other to stick to facts, let's see what the facts are.
I have not seen 'other posters'. If you have, then kindly post them or a link. If not, speculation about other posters is simply speculation.
In the absence of such, we have the single OP billboard at Valverde, east of Luz. It is in Portuguese and has a Portuguese phone number to contact. That number is (8)00 814 028. Only the 8 is close to full obliteration and the rest of the number is clearly visible.
Anyone Portuguese, or able to read Portuguese would recognise it as a Portuguese Freephone number. Portuguese Freephone numbers all start 800.
The important part for communication is the 6 digits that follow 814 028. Obliterate, say, 3 or those, and communication would be prevented. Yet no such attempt was made. They are perfectly clear.
To prevent communication, there was no need to spatter Madeleine's photo.
The idea that the vandalism would scare someone into not communicating is pure speculation. IMO, trying to scare off some unknown person to prevent them using a Freephone contact number is a weak concept.
May I ask you, if you want the help of someone do you alienate them before doing so? Were the McCann's smart in dumping on Luz whilst asking for the help of Luz citizens? In 'Madeleine was here', Kate makes clear that she knew Luz was suffering. Do you think it was wise to impose more suffering, whilst asking for help from those suffering? IMO, you do not kick someone then ask if they will help you. The McCann's thought otherwise.
Contact method from the McCann's to Luz was easy. In 'Madeleine was here', it seems some of the locals were present, along with a large media crowd, when Gerry went to apartment 5A. That means Gerry's visit to Luz was advertised. Tough cookie about the impact on Luz, and Gerry did not have the decency to interact with the citizens who turned up. Communication would be one-way, as per usual, with Clarence berating the citizens of Luz for their misdeeds.
Luz has a mayor and a town hall, as anyone can establish very easily. So, was the mayor consulted? It would seem not. Was the suggestion made that perhaps a meeting in the town hall would be a good chance to talk to the citizens of Luz about the posters and the documentary? Nope, Team McCann demonstrated utter disregard for the citizens of Luz.
Did Team McCann put these events on their website and invite feedback? No, from Fortress Rothley it was decided that this type of inclusive approach was not the way to go. Stuff the citizens of Luz.
Perhaps Edgar was an influence in this. In the documentary, he states that it is necessary to do a reconstruction in Luz because that is where the incident occurred. OG seems to have thought much the same. I wonder if Rebelo ever watched 'Madeleine was here', and if so, what he thought of it.
It was dumb. One does not alienate people one wants help from. Unthinking, unfeeling, uncaring.
The 800 phone number is still up on the Find Madeleine website. I wonder if anyone answers.
21 people out of a job. Why is it there seems to be no empathy from McCann supporters for them? And the number of restaurants and cafés that have closed. Is there no empathy for them? Does empathy start and end with the McCanns?
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Equating the loss of a job to the loss of a child
I'm surprised the McCanns didn't jump at the chance of working with you
Are you wondering what I am wondering davel ?
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Equating the loss of a job to the loss of a child
I'm surprised the McCanns didn't jump at the chance of working with you
21 jobs on this occasion, with many more to come, whilst the McCanns were economically comfortable in Rothley.
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It isn't surprising that some families would be put off from making a booking at the same holiday complex from where a little child had disappeared whilst on holdiay That would be the case regardless of whoever the child was or whether posters were put up or not.
On the other hand that would be offset to some extent by those people who go to PdL because of their interest in the McCann case -which still happens today according to SIL.
Also the local economy must have received quite a boost from the hundreds of media folk who were around for months -all of whom would require food and accommodation during their stay - and were obviously over and above the usual nos. of visitors.
So swings and roundabouts to some extent imo - and the financial world crash must have had an impact.
However, it would not occur to me in a hundred years to even consider for a second (in advance) - that anyone could be so unfeeling that billboard posters asking for help re a missing child would be vandalised. The argument that they should have known that was a possibiity is completely unrealistic imo.
I wonder how many parents in PdL were extra vigilant over their own children's safety after what happened - in the same way that parents living in April Jones community were. - even after the perpetrator had been caught.
Would there have been such resentment if it had been one of their own? I don't think so.
IMO
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Perhaps you would like to supply something more solid
The OC was not open all year round so most employees would be on a casual basis
Nothing to substantiate redundancies has ever been produced but has been blindly accepted
There is no doubt that there were many redundancies following Maddie's disappearance from Ocean Club. The internet is full of such stories from both employees and operators.
"On the day Gerry McCann flew out to film a reconstruction of his daughters disappearance, 21 Ocean Club workers were axed.
They were told by letter that as well as the world economic crisis and the falling pound, there was a downturn in business due to Maddie's disappearance in 2007."
www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2362875/Praia-da-Luz-workers-to-sue-Maddie-family.html
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Madeleine McCann holiday firm pulls out of Portuguese resort where she vanished
The holiday company at the centre of the Madeleine McCann case has quit the Portuguese resort where she vanished.
Mark Warner will no longer operate the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz on the Algarve.
The firm has been struggling to attract bookings there following the three-year-old’s abduction in 2007.
British holidaymakers shunned the complex as worldwide media coverage of the case raised safety concerns and profits dwindled.
A source said: “Mark Warner ended the deal recently after trying to make it work for a few years."
“Now people feel the resort will become deserted. It is a huge blow.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-holiday-firm-pulls-4915169
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There is no doubt that there were many redundancies following Maddie's disappearance from Ocean Club. The internet is full of such stories.
"On the day Gerry McCann flew out to film a reconstruction of his daughters disappearance, 21 Ocean Club workers were axed.
They were told by letter that as well as the world economic crisis and the falling pound, there was a downturn in business due to Maddie's disappearance in 2007."
www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2362875/Praia-da-Luz-workers-to-sue-Maddie-family.html
Impecible timing eh?
Done to try and ruin the filming of the recontruction by the Mccanns?
£5%4%
-
It isn't surprising that some families would be put off from making a booking at the same holiday complex from where a little child had disappeared whilst on holdiay That would be the case regardless of whoever the child was or whether posters were put up or not.
On the other hand that would be offset to some extent by those people who go to PdL because of their interest in the McCann case -which still happens today according to SIL.
Also the local economy must have received quite a boost from the hundreds of media folk who were around for months -all of whom would require food and accommodation during their stay - and were obviously over and above the usual nos. of visitors.
So swings and roundabouts to some extent imo - and the financial world crash must have had an impact.
However, it would not occur to me in a hundred years to even consider for a second (in advance) - that anyone could be so unfeeling that billboard posters asking for help re a missing child would be vandalised. The argument that they should have known that was a possibiity is completely unrealistic imo.
I wonder how many parents in PdL were extra vigilant over their own children's safety after what happened - in the same way that parents living in April Jones community were. - even after the perpetrator had been caught.
Would there have been such resentment if it had been one of their own? I don't think so.
IMO
I don't think 4 visitors per year now is making any significant difference.
The Ocean Club and OC staff suffered, as the media repeatedly point out it happened there. But the media don't stay at the OC, even if they are staying in Luz. I don't know where OG stayed. No swings or roundabouts.
May I ask you why the McCanns couldn't foresee it? Did they think they were popular in Luz in particular or Portugal in general? Did they do any image building in either?
The McCanns cannot simultaneously be intelligent as doctors but unintelligent as to the feelings of the locals. The truth is in the documentary. They knew and they didn't care.
Resentment about one of their own? I have not heard a single word of resentment towards Madeleine, not one. It is the attitude and actions of the parents that attract resentment.
And if someone from Luz had lost a child in similar circumstances, then returned to England to economic comfort while Luz rotted, would that person be popular for saturating Luz with posters and leaflets 2 years on? I think the most likely emotion would be resentment.
The posters were dumb. The response was predictable.
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Madeleine McCann holiday firm pulls out of Portuguese resort where she vanished
The holiday company at the centre of the Madeleine McCann case has quit the Portuguese resort where she vanished.
Mark Warner will no longer operate the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz on the Algarve.
The firm has been struggling to attract bookings there following the three-year-old’s abduction in 2007.
British holidaymakers shunned the complex as worldwide media coverage of the case raised safety concerns and profits dwindled.
A source said: “Mark Warner ended the deal recently after trying to make it work for a few years."
“Now people feel the resort will become deserted. It is a huge blow.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-holiday-firm-pulls-4915169
That was interesting to see they made an insurance claim to cover the losses that occurred.
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Impecible timing eh?
Done to try and ruin the filming of the recontruction by the Mccanns?
£5%4%
No Sadie, just your imagination in overdrive.
-
Since you repeatedly request other to stick to facts, let's see what the facts are.
I have not seen 'other posters'. If you have, then kindly post them or a link. If not, speculation about other posters is simply speculation.
In the absence of such, we have the single OP billboard at Valverde, east of Luz. It is in Portuguese and has a Portuguese phone number to contact. That number is (8)00 814 028. Only the 8 is close to full obliteration and the rest of the number is clearly visible.
Anyone Portuguese, or able to read Portuguese would recognise it as a Portuguese Freephone number. Portuguese Freephone numbers all start 800.
The important part for communication is the 6 digits that follow 814 028. Obliterate, say, 3 or those, and communication would be prevented. Yet no such attempt was made. They are perfectly clear.
To prevent communication, there was no need to spatter Madeleine's photo.
The idea that the vandalism would scare someone into not communicating is pure speculation. IMO, trying to scare off some unknown person to prevent them using a Freephone contact number is a weak concept.
May I ask you, if you want the help of someone do you alienate them before doing so? Were the McCann's smart in dumping on Luz whilst asking for the help of Luz citizens? In 'Madeleine was here', Kate makes clear that she knew Luz was suffering. Do you think it was wise to impose more suffering, whilst asking for help from those suffering? IMO, you do not kick someone then ask if they will help you. The McCann's thought otherwise.
Contact method from the McCann's to Luz was easy. In 'Madeleine was here', it seems some of the locals were present, along with a large media crowd, when Gerry went to apartment 5A. That means Gerry's visit to Luz was advertised. Tough cookie about the impact on Luz, and Gerry did not have the decency to interact with the citizens who turned up. Communication would be one-way, as per usual, with Clarence berating the citizens of Luz for their misdeeds.
Luz has a mayor and a town hall, as anyone can establish very easily. So, was the mayor consulted? It would seem not. Was the suggestion made that perhaps a meeting in the town hall would be a good chance to talk to the citizens of Luz about the posters and the documentary? Nope, Team McCann demonstrated utter disregard for the citizens of Luz.
Did Team McCann put these events on their website and invite feedback? No, from Fortress Rothley it was decided that this type of inclusive approach was not the way to go. Stuff the citizens of Luz.
Perhaps Edgar was an influence in this. In the documentary, he states that it is necessary to do a reconstruction in Luz because that is where the incident occurred. OG seems to have thought much the same. I wonder if Rebelo ever watched 'Madeleine was here', and if so, what he thought of it.
It was dumb. One does not alienate people one wants help from. Unthinking, unfeeling, uncaring.
The 800 phone number is still up on the Find Madeleine website. I wonder if anyone answers.
21 people out of a job. Why is it there seems to be no empathy from McCann supporters for them? And the number of restaurants and cafés that have closed. Is there no empathy for them? Does empathy start and end with the McCanns?
You should see the town I live in. Virtually half the shops and restaurants have closed. Loads are unemployed.
It is called the recession ... and it is global.
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It isn't surprising that some families would be put off from making a booking at the same holiday complex from where a little child had disappeared whilst on holdiay That would be the case regardless of whoever the child was or whether posters were put up or not.
On the other hand that would be offset to some extent by those people who go to PdL because of their interest in the McCann case -which still happens today according to SIL.
Also the local economy must have received quite a boost from the hundreds of media folk who were around for months -all of whom would require food and accommodation during their stay - and were obviously over and above the usual nos. of visitors.
So swings and roundabouts to some extent imo - and the financial world crash must have had an impact.
However, it would not occur to me in a hundred years to even consider for a second (in advance) - that anyone could be so unfeeling that billboard posters asking for help re a missing child would be vandalised. The argument that they should have known that was a possibiity is completely unrealistic imo.
I wonder how many parents in PdL were extra vigilant over their own children's safety after what happened - in the same way that parents living in April Jones community were. - even after the perpetrator had been caught.
Would there have been such resentment if it had been one of their own? I don't think so.
IMO
If that argument held any water why are Manchester and Cannock not completely devoid of population?
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Impecible timing eh?
Done to try and ruin the filming of the recontruction by the Mccanns?
£5%4%
Why would Mark Warner make 21 people redundant with the aim of ruining the McCann's film? Did Mark Warner want them to stay away too?
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You should see the town I live in. Virtually half the shops and restaurants have closed. Loads are unemployed.
It is called the recession ... and it is global.
Do parents put up billboard posters of 'snatched' children in your town? In Luz, the livelihood is tourism. What is it in yours?
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Why would Mark Warner make 21 people redundant with the aim of ruining the McCann's film? Did Mark Warner want them to stay away too?
Highly likely.
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Why would Mark Warner make 21 people redundant with the aim of ruining the McCann's film? Did Mark Warner want them to stay away too?
Were they gone by then or only notified that day? Rather odd timing I admit £5%4%
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Do parents put up billboard posters of 'snatched' children in your town? In Luz, the livelihood is tourism. What is it in yours?
Global recession Shining, although undoubtedly Madeleines abduction will have affected some initially. But others having seen on TV what a pretty place PdL is, will visit .. when they might not have done before, possibly because they had never heard of it.
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Were they gone by then or only notified that day? Rather odd timing I admit £5%4%
It was said that they were all kitted out in new uniforms ... am no longer sure if they were OC or MW uniforms, but I think the former.
And in those uniforms they gathered to shout at and heckle Gerry ... on the very day that the filming started.
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I don't think 4 visitors per year now is making any significant difference.
The Ocean Club and OC staff suffered, as the media repeatedly point out it happened there. But the media don't stay at the OC, even if they are staying in Luz. I don't know where OG stayed. No swings or roundabouts.
May I ask you why the McCanns couldn't foresee it? Did they think they were popular in Luz in particular or Portugal in general? Did they do any image building in either?
The McCanns cannot simultaneously be intelligent as doctors but unintelligent as to the feelings of the locals. The truth is in the documentary. They knew and they didn't care.
Resentment about one of their own? I have not heard a single word of resentment towards Madeleine, not one. It is the attitude and actions of the parents that attract resentment.
And if someone from Luz had lost a child in similar circumstances, then returned to England to economic comfort while Luz rotted, would that person be popular for saturating Luz with posters and leaflets 2 years on? I think the most likely emotion would be resentment.
The posters were dumb. The response was predictable.
What is interesting is how anti McCann you are after initially claiming to be neutral
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What is interesting is how anti McCann you are after initially claiming to be neutral
I am noticing exactly the same davel.
And it has shocked me.
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Someone on this thread was asking for proof of other "Help find Madeleine" posters being defaced in PdL
I tried searching for it on the internet and all images have vanished .... and yet I only saw one of them in the past couple of weeks.
However, I have finally found one
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/ScuK-sHQvnI/AAAAAAAAEQ4/7xuHwiSO-TY/s400/torn.jpg
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/ScuK-sHQvnI/AAAAAAAAEQ4/7xuHwiSO-TY/s400/torn.jpg)
I found it on here !
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"Bill Posters Will Be Prosecuted" herald the signs.
That is a miscarriage of justice because Bill Posters is, as everyone knows, innocent of the crime, it being the dastardly Bill Stickers who is the guilty party.
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The global recession worked in more ways than one ... the people from "these dark Satanic Mills" lost their jobs and couldn't afford to visit tourist areas which may have resulted in the people from these areas losing their jobs in turn.
These events coincided with a high level of crime associated with the Algarve ...
Martin Brunt reports
Police statistics for the Algarve coast show that crime has been falling steadily since the high levels of 2008.
At that time a wave of burglaries provided rich pickings for companies selling burglar alarms to well-heeled owners of the luxury villas built around the big resorts of estates such Vilamoura.
http://news.sky.com/story/algarve-residents-worry-despite-crime-drop-10345481
(http://madeleinemccannthetruth.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/crime.jpg)
Snip
In the latest violent attacks on tourists, two British men were admitted to hospital after they were mugged in Albufeira on June 24 and, the day after, two Irish women were assaulted on the way back to their hotel in Praia da Rocha.
Snip
“We have spoken with the former Minister of Internal Affairs, Rui Pereira, about this matter and are hoping that the new Government recognises that the crime problems we have in the region can only be resolved with more policemen. Tourism, which is essential for the Algarve, will unquestionably be affect by rising crime. It’s imperative that tourists feel and are safe.”
Snip
And Albufeira Mayor Desidério Silva is concerned that rising crime in Albufeira is “undermining the image of tourism in the region”.
Snip
Portimão Mayor Manuel da Luz, meanwhile, has called for the installation of CCTV surveillance in the bars area of Praia da Rocha and the downtown area of Portimão in order to detect criminals.
“Crime occurrences are increasing and we need to implement CCTV surveillance in the busiest areas of Portimão council,” he said.
The subject of CCTV surveillance being installed in popular tourist areas of the Algarve is currently under discussion.
ines.lopes@theresidentgroup.com
https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/and-so-the-economic-climate-is-the-mccanns-fault/
Madeleine McCann is also a victim of crime as were the other British children who were assaulted in their beds with their parents asleep in the next room.
It gives me a really bad feeling to know that what happened to these children has been derided by some and swept under the carpet by others in an exercise it seems not to protect the children who were assaulted and those who would be assaulted, but to 'protect' the tourist industry.
The obvious way to do that would have been to do everything possible to catch the perpetrator thus protecting industry and children in one go.
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The global recession worked in more ways than one ... the people from "these dark Satanic Mills" lost their jobs and couldn't afford to visit tourist areas which may have resulted in the people from these areas losing their jobs in turn.
These events coincided with a high level of crime associated with the Algarve ...
Martin Brunt reports
Police statistics for the Algarve coast show that crime has been falling steadily since the high levels of 2008.
At that time a wave of burglaries provided rich pickings for companies selling burglar alarms to well-heeled owners of the luxury villas built around the big resorts of estates such Vilamoura.
http://news.sky.com/story/algarve-residents-worry-despite-crime-drop-10345481
(http://madeleinemccannthetruth.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/crime.jpg)
Snip
In the latest violent attacks on tourists, two British men were admitted to hospital after they were mugged in Albufeira on June 24 and, the day after, two Irish women were assaulted on the way back to their hotel in Praia da Rocha.
Snip
“We have spoken with the former Minister of Internal Affairs, Rui Pereira, about this matter and are hoping that the new Government recognises that the crime problems we have in the region can only be resolved with more policemen. Tourism, which is essential for the Algarve, will unquestionably be affect by rising crime. It’s imperative that tourists feel and are safe.”
Snip
And Albufeira Mayor Desidério Silva is concerned that rising crime in Albufeira is “undermining the image of tourism in the region”.
Snip
Portimão Mayor Manuel da Luz, meanwhile, has called for the installation of CCTV surveillance in the bars area of Praia da Rocha and the downtown area of Portimão in order to detect criminals.
“Crime occurrences are increasing and we need to implement CCTV surveillance in the busiest areas of Portimão council,” he said.
The subject of CCTV surveillance being installed in popular tourist areas of the Algarve is currently under discussion.
ines.lopes@theresidentgroup.com
https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/and-so-the-economic-climate-is-the-mccanns-fault/
Madeleine McCann is also a victim of crime as were the other British children who were assaulted in their beds with their parents asleep in the next room.
It gives me a really bad feeling to know that what happened to these children has been derided by some and swept under the carpet by others in an exercise it seems not to protect the children who were assaulted and those who would be assaulted, but to 'protect' the tourist industry.
The obvious way to do that would have been to do everything possible to catch the perpetrator thus protecting industry and children in one go.
A quaint expression, but no-one was working in "these dark Satanic Mills" in the 21st Century, They were gone 30 years before the millenium.
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Someone on this thread was asking for proof of other "Help find Madeleine" posters being defaced in PdL
I tried searching for it on the internet and all images have vanished .... and yet I only saw one of them in the past couple of weeks.
However, I have finally found one
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/ScuK-sHQvnI/AAAAAAAAEQ4/7xuHwiSO-TY/s400/torn.jpg
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/ScuK-sHQvnI/AAAAAAAAEQ4/7xuHwiSO-TY/s400/torn.jpg)
I found it on here !
The issue was not 'were other posters defaced', because all the evidence points to other posters being defaced. That is not in question.
The issue was 'was it intended to prevent communication?' The defaced poster you have put here quite clearly has the contact details intact, so it is not an attempt to prevent communication.
It is intended to express the feelings of the defacer towards the McCann parents.
Whether you like that message or agree with the method of sending it is not the issue. The reality is that by April 2009 at least some of the people of Luz had turned against the McCann parents.
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I am noticing exactly the same davel.
And it has shocked me.
To be honest, I find this line of thought both offensive and unintelligent.
Those supporting it appear to think it was perfectly OK for the McCanns to alienate Luz.
Alienating Luz lowered the chances of finding out what happened to Madeleine.
Silvia Batista and husband Joao had both worked at the OC for around 20 years. Both got made redundant. So what do the McCannites think? After their family life got wrecked, did Silvia think it was fine to get hauled to Faro by OG in Dec 14? Did she enter that process neutral? Did she give her all for Madeleine?
The issue I have with this thread is McCann supporters unthinkingly accepting everything the McCann parents did as good, when an audit trail reveals a litany of errors.
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I am noticing exactly the same davel.
And it has shocked me.
Maybe being attacked by supporters has that effect?
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Maybe being attacked by supporters has that effect?
They are unable to perceive their opinions are 1-dimensional on this case.
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Do parents put up billboard posters of 'snatched' children in your town? In Luz, the livelihood is tourism. What is it in yours?
I would imagine if a child had been snatched from Sadie's town, then most definitely posters would have been up, as they would in any town.
Are you forgetting Portugal was facing a recession at the time?
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The hatred towards the McCanns by the Portuguese started at the arguido interviews long before any so called redundancies
Any uk citizen seeing the vile behaviour of the Portuguese lynch mob may well have felt it wise to give PDL a wide berth
That's far more likely to have been responsible for the decision by some to stay away from PDL
What a vile lot the Portuguese crowd looked
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I don't think 4 visitors per year now is making any significant difference.
The Ocean Club and OC staff suffered, as the media repeatedly point out it happened there. But the media don't stay at the OC, even if they are staying in Luz. I don't know where OG stayed. No swings or roundabouts.
May I ask you why the McCanns couldn't foresee it? Did they think they were popular in Luz in particular or Portugal in general? Did they do any image building in either?
The McCanns cannot simultaneously be intelligent as doctors but unintelligent as to the feelings of the locals. The truth is in the documentary. They knew and they didn't care.
Resentment about one of their own? I have not heard a single word of resentment towards Madeleine, not one. It is the attitude and actions of the parents that attract resentment.
And if someone from Luz had lost a child in similar circumstances, then returned to England to economic comfort while Luz rotted, would that person be popular for saturating Luz with posters and leaflets 2 years on? I think the most likely emotion would be resentment.
The posters were dumb. The response was predictable.
How can you know how many people who are interested in the McCann case go to PdL each year?
The McCanns have had loads of support from the locals, any suggestion that every one of them has since turned their backs on them can only be speculation.
You say the McCanns were dumb to put up posters. IMO the hostility openly displayed by some locals by vandalising posters and daubing walls and signs is counter-productive from the POV of the tourist industry. As a UK citizen I for one would not like to visit a a place where the intention of the locals towards the parents of a UK missing child is publicly 'advertised' to be as unhelpful to them as possible, to daub the place with insults, and to tell them to go away.
What sort of welcoming,caring signal does that send out to potential tourists?
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How can you know how many people who are interested in the McCann case go to PdL each year?
The McCanns have had loads of support from the locals, any suggestion that every one of them has since turned their backs on them can only be speculation.
You say the McCanns were dumb to put up posters. IMO the hostility openly displayed by some locals by vandalising posters and daubing walls and signs is counter-productive from the POV of the tourist industry. As a UK citizen I for one would not like to visit a a place where the intention of the locals towards the parents of a UK missing child is publicly 'advertised' to be as unhelpful to them as possible, to daub the place with insults, and to tell them to go away.
What sort of welcoming,caring signal does that send out to potential tourists?
Another bland and meaningless statement.
'.....the McCanns have had loads of support from the locals,...'
You can provide evidence, for this 'loads of support' ?
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Another bland and meaningless statement.
'.....the McCanns have had loads of support from the locals,...'
You can provide evidence, for this 'loads of support' ?
Well, didn't many people search for Madeleine? Didn't may people give to the fund? Have you forgotten that already?
The tides turned when they were made arguido's.
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Well, didn't many people search for Madeleine? Didn't may people give to the fund? Have you forgotten that already?
The tides turned when they were made arguido's.
Many people searched for Madeleine, unlike her parents.
Their's stopped after a brief stroll the following morning.
The parents would be investigated in this kind of case, as you know well.
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Well, didn't many people search for Madeleine? Didn't may people give to the fund? Have you forgotten that already?
The tides turned when they were made arguido's.
And all the evidence that instigated the arguido statement was found to be worthless
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The issue was not 'were other posters defaced', because all the evidence points to other posters being defaced. That is not in question.
The issue was 'was it intended to prevent communication?' The defaced poster you have put here quite clearly has the contact details intact, so it is not an attempt to prevent communication.
It is intended to express the feelings of the defacer towards the McCann parents.
Whether you like that message or agree with the method of sending it is not the issue. The reality is that by April 2009 at least some of the people of Luz had turned against the McCann parents.
I have no doubt that after all the propaganda put out , some people in Luz did turn against the Mccanns ... and the rest very wisely, but unfortunately for Madeleine, kept their heads down.
The poster is destroyed and a piece of paper flapping over the number. The people of Luz not only had to lift this paper to read it all ... but would also be aware that a nasty element was about. Better to keep their heads down.
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I have no doubt that after all the propaganda put out , some people in Luz did turn against the Mccanns ... and the rest very wisely, but unfortunately for Madeleine, kept their heads down.
The poster is destroyed and a piece of paper flapping over the number. The people of Luz not only had to lift this paper to read it all ... but would also be aware that a nasty element was about. Better to keep their heads down.
The Luz community have had an interminable blight brought upon them so it is not surprising that a few frustrated souls chose a more unorthodox route to impart their displeasure. However, the loss suffered by Luz was undoubtedly picked up as a benefit by other resorts in the Algarve.
What I believe the good people of Luz fear most is that one of their own is found culpable in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann because that alone would cast a very dark shadow over this small community.
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The Luz community have had an interminable blight brought upon them so it is not surprising that a few frustrated souls chose a more unorthodox route to impart their displeasure. However, the loss suffered by Luz was undoubtedly picked up as a benefit by other resorts in the Algarve.
What I believe the good people of Luz fear most is that one of their own is found culpable in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann because that alone would cast a very dark shadow over this small community.
.......................or of course, no one from that community of Portugal was involved.
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.......................or of course, no one from that community of Portugal was involved.
A bit early to say as yet. Until the case is solved we just don't know.
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To be honest, I find this line of thought both offensive and unintelligent.
Those supporting it appear to think it was perfectly OK for the McCanns to alienate Luz.
Alienating Luz lowered the chances of finding out what happened to Madeleine.
Silvia Batista and husband Joao had both worked at the OC for around 20 years. Both got made redundant. So what do the McCannites think? After their family life got wrecked, did Silvia think it was fine to get hauled to Faro by OG in Dec 14? Did she enter that process neutral? Did she give her all for Madeleine?
The issue I have with this thread is McCann supporters unthinkingly accepting everything the McCann parents did as good, when an audit trail reveals a litany of errors.
You are putting the blame for the effect of a worldwide recession on the McCanns ... that is hardly fair.
The McCanns neither hauled nor caused to be hauled either Silvia Batista and husband Joao or anyone else to Faro.
That would be the policing authorities investigating a missing child case.
Never having had the experience of having a child stolen from them it was all a learning curve for the McCanns. That you and others may believe that they acted inappropriately is neither here nor there. The problem you should perhaps be addressing is that it became incumbent on the victim's parents to carry out their own investigation because they could see at first hand that the initial Portuguese one was going nowhere towards finding Madeleine. Which may very well have been because they weren't looking for her.
There was a theory to be adhered to ... and the McCanns could see that in operation.
The perplexing thing is the absolute resistance to any meaningful investigation into Madeleine's fate. This was typified by vandalising reminder posters and the later 'work' carried out on walls and traffic signs.
You constantly criticise Scotland Yard.
Even the BBC and the Crimewatch programme come in for criticism ... yet you make excuses for the defacement of posters on the grounds that everyone knew the number anyway?
Scotland Yard and the BBC programme are trying to solve a crime against a little girl. Those in Luz who have behaved in the manner they have ... ... err, what exactly is it they are doing and what is their intent in doing it?
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The biggest threat to tourism in PdL is a child molester/child murderer on the loose.
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The biggest threat to tourism in PdL is a child molester/child murderer on the loose.
Who would that be, then?
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The biggest threat to tourism in PdL is a child molester/child murderer on the loose.
How do you know that ?
Pure speculation, and we know why.
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Murat was Anglo Portuguese the scion of a very important Portuguese family. The English bit was fine but the Portuguese side was able to afford a good lawyer to ensure he enjoyed the rights he was entitled to.
The McCanns were British ... Kate would have fitted the bill perfectly, but they too were in the position of being able to employ good lawyers.
Years later, Euclides Monteiro would have been fine. Dead and an immigrant from Cape Verde. He didn't look like any of the efits though.
Truly amazing that not a single native resident of Luz (Murat apart) who may have had the time, the opportunity, the motive and the 'expertise' to kidnap a child ever seems to have been looked at or questioned.
You say that because the only scenario you and your fellows want considered, is abduction.
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Murat was Anglo Portuguese the scion of a very important Portuguese family. The English bit was fine but the Portuguese side was able to afford a good lawyer to ensure he enjoyed the rights he was entitled to.
The McCanns were British ... Kate would have fitted the bill perfectly, but they too were in the position of being able to employ good lawyers.
Years later, Euclides Monteiro would have been fine. Dead and an immigrant from Cape Verde. He didn't look like any of the efits though.
Truly amazing that not a single native resident of Luz (Murat apart) who may have had the time, the opportunity, the motive and the 'expertise' to kidnap a child ever seems to have been looked at or questioned.
That's random for you. Maybe no one from Luz was involved.
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To be honest, I find this line of thought both offensive and unintelligent.
Those supporting it appear to think it was perfectly OK for the McCanns to alienate Luz.
Alienating Luz lowered the chances of finding out what happened to Madeleine.
Silvia Batista and husband Joao had both worked at the OC for around 20 years. Both got made redundant. So what do the McCannites think? After their family life got wrecked, did Silvia think it was fine to get hauled to Faro by OG in Dec 14? Did she enter that process neutral? Did she gives her all for Madeleine?
S
The issue I have with this thread is McCann supporters unthinkingly accepting everything the McCann parents did as good, when an audit trail reveals a litany of errors.
I find your post unintelligent
We have a missing child
The investigation into her disappearance takes precedence
The ill feeling towards the mccanns started very early on
As soon as they were made arguidos
You need to read up on this
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I find your post unintelligent
We have a missing child
The investigation into her disappearance takes precedence
The ill feeling towards the mccanns started very early on
As soon as they were made arguidos
You need to read up on this
I find your post arrogant. 'We' don't have a missing child, the McCanns do. The investigation into her disappearance is the job of the Portuguese authorities. It always was and it remains so.
The McCanns chose to carry out their own investigation almost from the beginning, but their efforts have precedence only in their minds, no-one else's. Their belief that the everyone in the world should put the investigation into their daughter's disappearance before their own concerns is understandable, but not realistic.
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I find your post arrogant. 'We' don't have a missing child, the McCanns do. The investigation into her disappearance is the job of the Portuguese authorities. It always was and it remains so.
The McCanns chose to carry out their own investigation almost from the beginning, but their efforts have precedence only in their minds, no-one else's. Their belief that the everyone in the world should put the investigation into their daughter's disappearance before their own concerns is understandable, but not realistic.
Are you saying that if a child disappears while on holiday abroad they aren't worth the bother of being looked for?
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I find your post arrogant. 'We' don't have a missing child, the McCanns do. The investigation into her disappearance is the job of the Portuguese authorities. It always was and it remains so.
The McCanns chose to carry out their own investigation almost from the beginning, but their efforts have precedence only in their minds, no-one else's. Their belief that the everyone in the world should put the investigation into their daughter's disappearance before their own concerns is understandable, but not realistic.
We do have missing child
It is societies responsibility to investigate her disappearance
you may find my post arrogant but in the light of the fact that almost every post by sil insults other posters it's quite reasonable
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Are you saying that if a child disappears while on holiday abroad they aren't worth the bother of being looked for?
I have read my post again and cannot see the opinion you mention expressed there, so my answer is no.
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The thread topic is Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters. is there any chance that members could try to fit discussion of that into the conversation? Please stay on topic. Thank You
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I have sympathy for those who were no longer employed by MW but it pales into insignificance compared to the loss of a child....can you really not see something so obvious
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I have sympathy for those who were no longer employed by MW but it pales into insignificance compared to the loss of a child....can you really not see something so obvious
That is purely your opinion. I'm sure other might think differently.
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Interesting that some posters here see the loss of a job to be at a similar level to the loss of a child
It certainly explains a hell of a lot
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Luz, like many other towns & villages on the Algarve, realised a few decades ago that tourism was the way forward for the area to flourish. I wonder how many of the fisherman & farmers who, having contributed much to the region for years, lost their jobs & land to make way for surfing schools & hotel developments? The tourist industry is of prime importance to the region and, like the Spanish & Greeks, the locals have to swallow the rough with the smooth if they wish to keep the money pouring in. If 30 jobs at OC were the only collateral damage to Luz following Madeleine's disappearance, then imo the area escaped quite lightly. I think we'd all be interested to know if there were any other job losses in the village as a direct result of May 2007.
One of the first accusations levelled at the Tapas 9 was that they were swingers. Did that accusation demonstrate Luz's reputation, as perceived by its own country's police force, was not in keeping with the widely-promoted family-friendly holiday destination? Rather than welcoming the continued investigation into the disappearance of a child from their midst, you are suggesting that the locals have every right to be obstructive because of the effect it has had on their lives. Maybe it is this obstruction which prevented the crime from being solved a long time ago.
NB. Sergei was investigated because he was less than truthful with the PJ about his association with the 1st arguido. And a few other matters.
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Interesting that some posters here see the loss of a job to be at a similar level to the loss of a child
It certainly explains a hell of a lot
Should it happen to me the loss of my job would be at around 10 in my life whereas someone else I didn't know losing their child would scarcely figure above 1. That's the way it is. Anyone who professes differently is most probably trapping off for effect.
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Should it happen to me the loss of my job would be at around 10 in my life whereas someone else I didn't know losing their child would scarcely figure above 1. That's the way it is. Anyone who professes differently is most probably trapping off for effect.
I think that sums it up very nicely 8((()*/
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Luz, like many other towns & villages on the Algarve, realised a few decades ago that tourism was the way forward for the area to flourish. I wonder how many of the fisherman & farmers who, having contributed much to the region for years, lost their jobs & land to make way for surfing schools & hotel developments? The tourist industry is of prime importance to the region and, like the Spanish & Greeks, the locals have to swallow the rough with the smooth if they wish to keep the money pouring in. If 30 jobs at OC were the only collateral damage to Luz following Madeleine's disappearance, then imo the area escaped quite lightly. I think we'd all be interested to know if there were any other job losses in the village as a direct result of May 2007.
One of the first accusations levelled at the Tapas 9 was that they were swingers. Did that accusation demonstrate Luz's reputation, as perceived by its own country's police force, was not in keeping with the widely-promoted family-friendly holiday destination? Rather than welcoming the continued investigation into the disappearance of a child from their midst, you are suggesting that the locals have every right to be obstructive because of the effect it has had on their lives. Maybe it is this obstruction which prevented the crime from being solved a long time ago.
NB. Sergei was investigated because he was less than truthful with the PJ about his association with the 1st arguido. And a few other matters.
8@??)(
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I think that sums it up very nicely 8((()*/
No one here lost a job because of the effects of Madeleine's disappearance on PdL did they? If not then Alice's point was completely irrelevant.
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Luz, like many other towns & villages on the Algarve, realised a few decades ago that tourism was the way forward for the area to flourish. I wonder how many of the fisherman & farmers who, having contributed much to the region for years, lost their jobs & land to make way for surfing schools & hotel developments? The tourist industry is of prime importance to the region and, like the Spanish & Greeks, the locals have to swallow the rough with the smooth if they wish to keep the money pouring in. If 30 jobs at OC were the only collateral damage to Luz following Madeleine's disappearance, then imo the area escaped quite lightly. I think we'd all be interested to know if there were any other job losses in the village as a direct result of May 2007.
One of the first accusations levelled at the Tapas 9 was that they were swingers. Did that accusation demonstrate Luz's reputation, as perceived by its own country's police force, was not in keeping with the widely-promoted family-friendly holiday destination? Rather than welcoming the continued investigation into the disappearance of a child from their midst, you are suggesting that the locals have every right to be obstructive because of the effect it has had on their lives. Maybe it is this obstruction which prevented the crime from being solved a long time ago.
NB. Sergei was investigated because he was less than truthful with the PJ about his association with the 1st arguido. And a few other matters.
If you have any evidence whatsoever that fishermen were prevented from fishing, kindly present it. Luz did not have then, and does not have now, a harbour for fishing vessels. It seems they used to string nets across the bay when the tuna came, but when the tuna stopped using Luz as a migration point, end of the fishing industry.
If you have any evidence whatsoever that farmers were forced off their land to develop Luz, kindly present it. The best information I have at the moment is that the bulk of the land was owned by one single lady, and if correct, that would mean farmers were renting from her before she sold up.
Collateral damage? Oh dear, I was dreading this turning up like a bad penny. Is there something about you and your husband/wife are out of a job that you do not understand? Or perhaps further posters and further collateral damage are OK. Because there is going to be further 'collateral damage' on the 10th anniversary.
There have been many other job losses in Luz, but in honesty, I cannot say how many were due to the Madeleine effect. The OC got hit particularly hard. I would assume other businesses in Luz fared somewhat better.
To be blunt, Misty, I find your insinuation that I have approved of the vandalism distasteful. Check back through the thread.
From memory, not a single poster has approved of such vandalism. Frankly, if anyone does, the post will hit the cutting room floor faster than s**t off a shovel.
From memory, there has been widespread condemnation of the defacement, typically from McCann supporters. This has been allowed to stand in its entirety.
There has been a flagellation of the people of Luz, or a sub-set of the people of Luz, for this act of vandalism. These comments have been allowed to stand. The vandalism happened, and forum opinions on this are valid.
There has been a very grudging acceptance that perhaps people other than the McCanns suffered. However, this seems to be a balance between the greater evil (Madeleine gone) and the lesser evil (both earners redundant/'collateral damage'.)
The thread title is 'Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters'. It is not about May 2007 when Madeleine disappeared. It is about 2 years later when someone in Team McCann decided plastering Luz with posters was a good idea.
It wasn't.
It was unintelligent, uncaring, and it harmed the search for Madeleine, IMO. The response was entirely predictable.
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I am sorry if you consider the placing of Madeleine posters in public places in Luz and the additional questioning & investigations carried out by SY/PJ as dumb. I can't honestly see why you are spending so much time & effort researching & blogging about the case if you believe those who are trying to act in Madeleine's best interests are, in fact, dumb.
I have every sympathy with innocent people who have inadvertently been caught up in this drawn-out case. However, had it been THEIR child who had gone missing in similar circumstances, I'm sure they would have been the first to expect continued co-operation from the local residents for as long as it took to reach a conclusion. Maybe if the PJ had been more adept the matter could have been concluded well before a job loss situation was reached but, like Soham & Dunblane, the village will always now be synonymous with Madeleine McCann.
Would you like to know in whose computer records I discovered searches for swinging in the Algarve?
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There are people, both on this forum and elsewhere, who claim they would never EVER give up physically searching for their daughter if it was them, and it they were the McCanns they would have stayed in Portugal until she was found. I just wonder what sort of impact that would have had on PdL - the McCanns in permanent residence, knocking on doors day in day out, digging little holes on the beach, stopping tourists to ask them if they'd seen a blonde girl who looked like Kate, all the while being followed by the world's media - yes, they could have becoming tourist attractions in their own right, maybe even incorporated in a Ghouls Tour visit? It's a thought isn't it.... &%+((£
I feel confident there have been better more constructive thoughts.
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It's a good marketing ploy.
They could even sell high quality wrist bands and a 'Desperately seeking Madeleine' lapel badge to every punter as part of the tour. 8)--))
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It's a good marketing ploy.
They could even sell high quality wrist bands and a 'Desperately seeking Madeleine' lapel badge to every punter as part of the tour. 8)--))
Dancing to the music of Boris Pickett and The Crypt Kicker Five?
"The ghouls all came from their humble abodes to cop a jolt from my electrodes."
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It's a good marketing ploy.
They could even sell high quality wrist bands and a 'Desperately seeking Madeleine' lapel badge to every punter as part of the tour. 8)--))
But the poor, beleaguered residents of PdL wouldn't like it. 8)><(
Come to think of it, is advertising PdL as "Maddieville" on a blog and offering tours of all the Maddie hotspots really something the poor, beleaguered residents of PdL would be particularly pleased about?
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Plenty of opportunities for B&B and Tapas-style restaurants - should keep the locals happy.
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Plenty of opportunities for B&B and Tapas-style restaurants - should keep the locals happy.
Perhaps you and SIL should join forces to exploit all these marketing opportunities. together you could turn around the fortunes of poor beleaguered PdL, treated so cruelly by those unintelligent McCanns and the everso dumb Metropolitan Police.
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Sadly, I don't travel well, so it's unlikely that I would ever go there.
Regretfully I think I'll need to pass this golden egg opportunity by, and leave it to those who travel regularly to the place.
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I have sympathy for those who were no longer employed by MW but it pales into insignificance compared to the loss of a child....can you really not see something so obvious
Thats basically saying that people losng their jobs is justified by the possiblity of some strangers sprog havingbeen alledgedly abducted from there and in the circumstances where said sprog was left all on their own might be found
really?
would you be happy to sacrifice your job for the possiblity that years later posters MIGHT still find some strangers child, give over
No wonder mark warner left and claimed on their insurance
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I am sorry if you consider the placing of Madeleine posters in public places in Luz and the additional questioning & investigations carried out by SY/PJ as dumb. I can't honestly see why you are spending so much time & effort researching & blogging about the case if you believe those who are trying to act in Madeleine's best interests are, in fact, dumb.
I have every sympathy with innocent people who have inadvertently been caught up in this drawn-out case. However, had it been THEIR child who had gone missing in similar circumstances, I'm sure they would have been the first to expect continued co-operation from the local residents for as long as it took to reach a conclusion. Maybe if the PJ had been more adept the matter could have been concluded well before a job loss situation was reached but, like Soham & Dunblane, the village will always now be synonymous with Madeleine McCann.
Would you like to know in whose computer records I discovered searches for swinging in the Algarve?
Along the beach, many of the canning plants were closed and replaced by windsurfing and diving schools, as well as discos, restaurants and shops tailored to the needs of the seasonal visitor.[5] The once prominent casino closed, and was replaced by a local primary school, before becoming the seat of the parish government and health centre.
Has anyone EVER visited Luz?
'Many of the canning plants'? I can take you to one café (Fabrica) which was a 'canning plant'. If you can take me to more, please do, because I am interested in the history of Luz from the 70s and 80s. Nothing to do with Madeleine. Just old age nostalgia.
Windsurfing and diving schools? Let me see. There is a windsurfing school out towards Burgau. And there are two banana boat type amusement centres which operate from the local beach. I cannot find you a diving centre in Luz.
Discos? In 2007 there was precisely one, under the Habana. Unless you include Carlos Bar under O Poço, which is stretching it a lot for an Elvis impersonator.
The once prominent casino closed, and was replaced by a local primary school, before becoming the seat of the parish government and health centre Casino? Certainly not in Madeleine's day. The primary school is the location of the Smithman sighting. It has absolutely nothing to do with the parish government in Vinte Cinco de Abril. And what the f is the local health centre? The Luz choice is Dr Otto at the top of Primeiro de Maio or LuzDoc (by Martin Smith). The health centre is in Lagos.
If you get your info from Wiki and don't cross-check it, the quality of your info is as per Wiki.
Would you like to know in whose computer records I discovered searches for swinging in the Algarve?
The short answer is yes. After perusing Textusa's theorem about swingers, it took me 15 or 20m to discover a historical record for swinging in the Algarve in 2007, just a few miles north of Luz. AFAIK, it has nothing to do with anyone in the Tapas 9. Does it have anything to do with the citizens of Luz? That I do not know.
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Along the beach, many of the canning plants were closed and replaced by windsurfing and diving schools, as well as discos, restaurants and shops tailored to the needs of the seasonal visitor.[5] The once prominent casino closed, and was replaced by a local primary school, before becoming the seat of the parish government and health centre.
Has anyone EVER visited Luz?
'Many of the canning plants'? I can take you to one café (Fabrica) which was a 'canning plant'. If you can take me to more, please do, because I am interested in the history of Luz from the 70s and 80s. Nothing to do with Madeleine. Just old age nostalgia.
Windsurfing and diving schools? Let me see. There is a windsurfing school out towards Burgau. And there are two banana boat type amusement centres which operate from the local beach. I cannot find you a diving centre in Luz.
Discos? In 2007 there was precisely one, under the Habana. Unless you include Carlos Bar under O Poço, which is stretching it a lot for an Elvis impersonator.
The once prominent casino closed, and was replaced by a local primary school, before becoming the seat of the parish government and health centre Casino? Certainly not in Madeleine's day. The primary school is the location of the Smithman sighting. It has absolutely nothing to do with the parish government in Vinte Cinco de Abril. And what the f is the local health centre? The Luz choice is Dr Otto at the top of Primeiro de Maio or LuzDoc (by Martin Smith). The health centre is in Lagos.
If you get your info from Wiki and don't cross-check it, the quality of your info is as per Wiki.
Would you like to know in whose computer records I discovered searches for swinging in the Algarve?
The short answer is yes. After perusing Textusa's theorem about swingers, it took me 15 or 20m to discover a historical record for swinging in the Algarve in 2007, just a few miles north of Luz. AFAIK, it has nothing to do with anyone in the Tapas 9. Does it have anything to do with the citizens of Luz? That I do not know.
If Wiki is incorrect & you are interested in the history of Praia da Luz, then perhaps you should contact Len Port or read his books. I certainly don't know the full history of the town I've lived in for 30 years & glean much information from the memories of elderly neighbours.
If you truly don't know the answer to my last question then you haven't gone through the available files with a fine toothcomb. Perhaps if you did it may alter your theory.
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Should it happen to me the loss of my job would be at around 10 in my life whereas someone else I didn't know losing their child would scarcely figure above 1. That's the way it is. Anyone who professes differently is most probably trapping off for effect.
So you loss of job would be considerably more important than a lost possibly abused and murdered child
You obviously think far more about your own problems than those of others
So if you had lost a child would you be not at all concerned for those who had lost a job
You wouldn't
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So you loss of job would be considerably more important than a lost possibly abused and murdered child
You obviously think far more about your own problems than those of others
So if you had lost a child would you be [NOT] at all concerned for those who had lost a job.
You wouldn't
Seems logical to me. if the word NOT is included.
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So you loss of job would be considerably more important than a lost possibly abused and murdered child
You obviously think far more about your own problems than those of others
So if you had lost a child would you be at all concerned for those who had lost a job
You wouldn't
Too bloody right sport.
That about covers it I think.
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The attitude seems to be that only one family matter in all of this. Lost your job? Tough, but THEY have lost a child. Had doubts cast on your reputation by being suspected of abduction or child trafficking? Tough, but THEY have lost a child.
It's an attitude that has prevailed throughout and is used to justify anything. The problem with that is that no-one has been able to provide any evidence that there's a living child out there to be found.
Showering Luz with leaflets and posters two years after the event was never going to produce new information. Anyone who knew anything would have come forward at the time. All it did was reopen old wounds.
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The attitude seems to be that only one family matter in all of this. Lost your job? Tough, but THEY have lost a child. Had doubts cast on your reputation by being suspected of abduction or child trafficking? Tough, but THEY have lost a child.
It's an attitude that has prevailed throughout and is used to justify anything. The problem with that is that no-one has been able to provide any evidence that there's a living child out there to be found.
Showering Luz with leaflets and posters two years after the event was never going to produce new information. Anyone who knew anything would have come forward at the time. All it did was reopen old wounds.
How could anyone know that no-one would come forward 2 years later without being able to see into the future? The recent activity regarding Ben Needham is as a result of someone coming forward years later. Would that have happened if Ben's mother had not done her best to keep him in the public's mind over the last 25 years?
Families who put up posters to try to jog people's memories are following the experts advice. I'm pretty sure that the only thing that matters to all of those families who do that - is finding their loved ones. Only those totally devoid of empathy could even remotely translate that into a 'selfish' act IMO.
You appear to have completely changed your opinion on how people should react to publicly having doubt cast on their reputations. IIRC you stated that if it happened to you - then you and your friends/family would all laugh it off - because you and they knew the allegations being made were untrue - and that would be all that mattered.
AIMO
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Posters are again reminded that comments unrelated to the thread topic will be removed.
If you wish to start a new topic please do so.
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I had a bad feeling that would happen.
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Should have been warned earlier so as to not waste time searching for evidence against arguments, now all wiped as off topic, time wnd effort stolen..whatever....
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Should have been warned earlier so as to not waste time searching for evidence against arguments, now all wiped as off topic, time wnd effort stolen..whatever....
You have to be quick around here. I thought there were some interesting questions being asked.
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Just so you know about the current situation on graffiti in Luz, here is a photo taken by my guest on Luz Tour 4 in Oct 2016.
The 'mccann circus' bit has been spray painted over in a red that nearly matches, but not quite.
There are 'blood'-like drops dripping onto the pavement.
The sign has been defaced again. Nowt to do with the McCanns. This time it is bicycle rides. And fracking. Perhaps Luz just cares about the environment?
For those interested, the sign is at the east end of Vinte Cinco de Abril, where it joins Primeiro de Maio, and feeds into Direita