UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on September 25, 2013, 02:51:49 PM
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On 17 September 2008, Gonçalo Amaral's wife and the mother of his daughters wrote an open letter to Kate McCann pouring scorn on the criticism she had afforded her husband.
Sofia Leal did not pull any punches in her letter and made several specific references to the 'disgrace' comment attributed to Kate (Healey) McCann.
I have reproduced the letter below.
188
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Open letter to Mrs Kate Healy
Dear Madam,
You will forgive my boldness, but after I read your comment (in an interview to Expresso newspaper) concerning Gonçalo Amaral, my husband and the father of my daughters, I cannot avoid sending you these words of gratefulness. For many years, I have been trying to make myself heard in this sentiment that unites us both: "…as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace." Look at it closely:
a) Professionally
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
But if it was only the fact that he was subject to the weather, it wouldn't be serious, as our climate is not too bad, as you know. The problem is that this dedication to the cause has earned him a non promotion in his career. Indeed, I will explain this to you, even because this case happened when the searches for your daughter were under way. My husband applied to the category of Superior Coordinator, and in between drug apprehensions, sequestrations and homicides, he somehow managed to produce a thesis about drug trafficking by sea, which he defended in Lisbon, in front of a Jury that congratulated him. Full of hope, Gonçalo Amaral returns to the Algarve and awaits the result. To his surprise, he was passed over by other colleagues (real coordinators, truth be told), because he had not been able to score points in the "professional formation" parameter. That's right, Mrs Kate, my husband spent his life working, involved in complex investigations, he was the man who apprehended the highest volumes of drugs in Portugal, but given the fact that he had no time to go to Lisbon to parade himself up and down the corridors of the PJ's Institute, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!
- As you probably know, even because you seem like a very well informed person to me, my husband's salary was less than 1.5 times the lowest salary in your country. But as a wife, as a mother and as a Portuguese citizen, I can't complain, because Gonçalo Amaral's salary was equal to 4.5 times the lowest salary in Portugal. But pay attention to the following, which is an example of what I'm going to explain next: At some point, an individual shoots a member of the PSP [urban police] and flees into neighbouring Spain. A PJ team follows him, including my husband. They stayed there for over two weeks. Now at that time, the international expense coverage was around 100 euros. As you can easily imagine, it's not possible to sleep and eat in Spain with this amount of money, much less shortly before Christmas and taking into account that the value will only be paid at around Easter time (if one's lucky). But Gonçalo Amaral never refused, not even for one day, to search for the escaped murderer, relaying the expenses onto our family accounts. And this is just one example among many. At some point in time, I suggested that we should create a fund or something similar to deal with these extraordinary expenses, but he never listened to me. You see, we also have mortgages to pay around here… A disgrace, Mrs Kate, a disgrace!
b) As a person, his behaviour has also been a disgrace, because to begin with we could never distinguish that he even had a personal life, due to the manner in which he dealt with the profession that he embraced. But if my good friend Mrs Kate allows me, I can offer you some examples:
- 5 years ago, a child named Joana "disappeared". Her mother, just like you, Mrs Kate, tried to project the case into the media, but she didn't make it any further than SIC…
Eight days later, came the confessions and the evidence: during an incestuous act between mother and uncle, the child was beaten, then dismembered and her body dumped who knows where. Mother and uncle went to jail, in a process that was coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral and which earned them almost 20 years in jail, each. But let us go a bit back in time. The child died on the 12th of September. On Christmas eve, our family was reunited for prayer, when my husband asked me to prepare a bag with some food and warm clothes, because he had not carried out his Christmas act of penance. Can you, Mrs Kate, imagine where Gonçalo Amaral went on that Christmas night under heavy rain and thunder? He went to the Olhão Prison, where João Cipriano, Joana's uncle, a confessed murderer and a clinically diagnosed psychopath, is detained. According to my husband, to simply offer an alimony to some beggar was not a sacrifice to him. The fact that he embraced and shared his Christmas meal with João Cipriano was the sacrifice that he offered to God, in memory of Joana. Is this not a disgrace? You should also know that every year, on the 12th of September, my husband has a mass celebrated in memory of Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro. He says that nobody will ever remember the poor little girl again. Right, but they remember to unjustly accuse him of actions and crimes that he never committed. Isn't this a disgrace, Mrs Kate?
- There is a last episode that I will report to you, one that I still find hard to talk about. Last year, in May, we started to move our family to Portimão. My husband was supposed to enjoy a holiday period starting on the day after your daughter's disappearance. "For obvious reasons" that didn't happen. I started on a new job, looked for a house, moved house, and tried to integrate our daughters in new schools and new routines. All of this I did alone, without any help from my husband, who for obvious reasons, was looking for your daughter, Mrs Kate. In October, on his birthday, a week after our daughters started school, Gonçalo Amaral was dismissed and returned to Faro. This was supposed to be the time of the family's reunion and it turned out to be another separation. Isn't this a disgrace? Our daughters never managed to understand, and we never managed to explain to them what obvious reasons were those that rewarded in this manner a father who left his own daughters to go looking for a child that he had never met and whose parents had neglected her. It was a pity that my dear friend Mrs Kate was not around anymore at that date, because you could have been very helpful to me in explaining these "obvious reasons" that led to their father's dismissal, to our daughters.
Finally, I can only report to you that intimately, Gonçalo Amaral is precisely what the latinos are famed for: shameless, as my pudency does not allow me to write any further.
I ask you, my good friend, to forgive these confidences from a wife and mother, but I'm certain that you will understand. I finish this letter asking you to send your mother my most sincere praises. She sounded so sincere to me, when during an interview she referred that she felt like slapping the face of the person who left her grandchildren alone. She spoke so openly that she sounded like a genuine Portuguese grandmother…
My dear friend Mrs Kate, without wishing to bother you any further, I would like to request one last favour from you: now that you have started to tell some truths, please continue, and let the world hear the truth that it has been waiting for.
Best regards,
Sofia Leal
Wife and Mother of the Daughters of Gonçalo Amaral
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Disgraceful, whining, whinging, letter ...
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Disgraceful, whining, whinging, letter ...
Agreed. Leal really makes herself look stupid.
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Disgraceful, whining, whinging, letter ...
Agreed
That's right, Mrs Kate, my husband spent his life working, involved in complex investigations, he was the man who apprehended the highest volumes of drugs in Portugal, but given the fact that he had no time to go to Lisbon to parade himself up and down the corridors of the PJ's Institute, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!
And what has that got to do with the price of fish and chips? Surely if her husband refused to walk the corridors to further his career that was his own doing. Not the doing of Kate and Gerry McCann or poor wee Madeleine.
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Agreed
And what has that got to do with the price of fish and chips? Surely if her husband refused to walk the corridors to further his career that was his own doing. Not the doing of Kate and Gerry McCann or poor wee Madeleine.
Leal trying to infer that Kate and Gerry McCann damaged Dear Hubby's career, again just makes her look stupid.
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You have to laugh though. 9 months earlier he was threatening to kill her. She reports him to his superior as has been proved.
When was it she lost her job in the Mayors office, and why?
She was also included in the fraud case with Amarals brother being ripped off for thousands!
Yeah it's rich isn't it DCI! Trying to portray herself as a humble, blameless wife and mother when in fact she was complicit in the ripping off of Amaral's brother. She needs to clean up her own act before having a go at Kate McCann.
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Yeah it's rich isn't it DCI! Trying to portray herself as a humble, blameless wife and mother when in fact she was complicit in the ripping off of Amaral's brother. She needs to clean up her own act before having a go at Kate McCann.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
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Sofia Leal had just as much a right to write an open letter as Kate had to write her whingey, whiney, cringing book, "Madeleine". You people here criticising the letter are a truly venomous and nasty lot.
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Sofia Leal had just as much a right to write an open letter as Kate had to write her whingey, whiney, cringing book, "Madeleine". You people here criticising the letter are a truly venomous and nasty lot.
Leal isn't exactly whiter than white though is she, Montclair? Ripping her brother in law off for a large amount of money. So again, she needs to clean up her own back yard before having a go at Kate McCann. And having a go at a Mum who's child is missing did not do her any favours at all.
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Sofia Leal had just as much a right to write an open letter as Kate had to write her whingey, whiney, cringing book, "Madeleine". You people here criticising the letter are a truly venomous and nasty lot.
Well Angelo, one of the mods, started the thread. So I'm sure it was posted for us to discuss. Not just to read!
It was a truly venomous and nasty letter. Why not send it to Kate, instead of selling or giving to newspapers.
Yes Kate also had as much right to write her book, as amaral had to write all his lies and filthy insinuations about Murat, and David Payne. Wasn't his book whingey, whiney, and cringing?
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Leal isn't exactly whiter than white though is she, Montclair? Ripping her brother in law off for a large amount of money. So again, she needs to clean up her own back yard before having a go at Kate McCann. And having a go at a Mum who's child is missing did not do her any favours at all.
Yes that was a bad move and quite disgusting imo.
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Yes that was a bad move and quite disgusting imo.
Anyone who sees fit to pick on a devastated Mum, not caring how much distress and upset will be caused, is the lowest of the low. Leal is vile.
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Anyone who sees fit to pick on a devastated Mum, not caring how much distress and upset will be caused, is the lowest of the low. Leal is vile.
Totally agree.
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This case never ceases to amaze. lt must be unprecedented that the wife of the coordinator in a child disappearance case feels she needs to send an open letter to the mother of that child on the basis of her criticism of his handling of the case.
She obviously blames the McCanns for her husband's premature removal from the case and subsequent failure to attain the post of superior coordinator.
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This case never ceases to amaze. lt must be unprecedented that the wife of the coordinator in a child disappearance case feels she needs to send an open letter to the mother of that child on the basis of her criticism of his handling of the case.
She obviously blames the McCanns for her husband's premature removal from the case and subsequent failure to attain the post of superior coordinator.
Can you imagine the wife of DCI Redwood, for example, publishing a vile letter like this? A letter deliberately designed to bring further pain to an already devastated Mum. Leal is disgusting.
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Having read through the mccann supporters 'views' on the letter, I can truly say they are disgusting comments.
Then you have the nerve to criticize others for lack of emotion and feelings as regards the Mccanns.
That is rank hypocrisy.
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Can you imagine the wife of DCI Redwood, for example, publishing a vile letter like this? A letter deliberately designed to bring further pain to an already devastated Mum. Leal is disgusting.
Hold your horses hey Granada? What exactly was in it designed to bring pain? She wasnt even rude! less of the ranting and emotional blackmail hey? This line of the mother or father of a missing child being targetted is getting laborious when no one knows if they were involves or not......
Kate Mccann went on national Portuguese TV and said her husband as a person and as a professional was a disgrace! What did you expect? She defended her husband and outlined various reasons why he wasnt! what Kate Mccann had accused him of being. She had every right to do so, so less of the indignation! Hey? IMO it was a very good and measured letter!
8((()*/
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Sofia Amaral wrote a very dignified letter addressed to a woman that instead of searching for her daughter was spending time giving interviews and parading like a movie star. While doing it, she forgot that she had told the world she had left her 3 babies alone in an apartment and instead called disgraced to the police inspector that was investigating the disappearance of her daughter.
Mrs. McCann behaved like a B****, and if it was me in Sofia's place I would have written a much more edgy message.
'Quem não se sente não é filho de boa gente» - portuguese proverb: those that do not resent do not come from good parents.
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Sofia Amaral wrote a very dignified letter addressed to a woman that instead of searching for her daughter was spending time giving interviews and parading like a movie star. While doing it, she forgot that she had told the world she had left her 3 babies alone in an apartment and instead called disgraced to the police inspector that was investigating the disappearance of her daughter.
Mrs. McCann behaved like a B****, and if it was me in Sofia's place I would have written a much more edgy message.
'Quem não se sente não é filho de boa gente» - portuguese proverb: those that do not resent do not come from good parents.
8@??)(
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Sofia Leal had just as much a right to write an open letter as Kate had to write her whingey, whiney, cringing book, "Madeleine". You people here criticising the letter are a truly venomous and nasty lot.
It should better be compared to the letter to Inspector Rebelo, a letter that had no answer as well.
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Hold your horses hey Granada? What exactly was in it designed to bring pain? She wasnt even rude! less of the ranting and emotional blackmail hey? This line of the mother or father of a missing child being targetted is getting laborious when no one knows if they were involves or not......
Kate Mccann went on national Portuguese TV and said her husband as a person and as a professional was a disgrace! What did you expect? She defended her husband and outlined various reasons why he wasnt! what Kate Mccann had accused him of being. She had every right to do so, so less of the indignation! Hey? IMO it was a very good and measured letter!
8((()*/
At least the twins will never be scared reading a curse of Mr Amaral on their mother wishing her "to be miserable and feel fear", as Mr Amaral's little daughter will if one day she finds "Madeleine" in a bookshop.
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At least the twins will never be scared reading a curse of Mr Amaral on their mother wishing her "to be miserable and feel fear", as Mr Amaral's little daughter will if one day she finds "Madeleine" in a bookshop.
Yea indeed Kate Mccann cursed people who tried to solve a case and find her kid as a good catholic does but forgives the abductor, insane or what
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At least the twins will never be scared reading a curse of Mr Amaral on their mother wishing her "to be miserable and feel fear", as Mr Amaral's little daughter will if one day she finds "Madeleine" in a bookshop.
I think Kate McCanns words were mild considering the circumstances. If I was Amaral I would be more concerned about how to explain his criminal conviction to his daughter when that time arrives. That's one thing he can't blame on the McCanns.
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At least the twins will never be scared reading a curse of Mr Amaral on their mother wishing her "to be miserable and feel fear", as Mr Amaral's little daughter will if one day she finds "Madeleine" in a bookshop.
Your post just got me thinking, Anne.
What about the potential damage to the twins that could be caused by reading 'Madeleine'?
Or watching Gerry and Kate McCann in one of their many interviews - no 'Dr' Amaral in sight?
Couldn't the twins be damaged by the topics under discussion -or by Kate's graphic descriptions? Will the McCanns, chez McCann, be banning their own book?
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Open letter to Mrs Kate Healy
Dear Madam,
You will forgive my boldness, but after I read your comment (in an interview to Expresso newspaper) concerning Gonçalo Amaral, my husband and the father of my daughters, I cannot avoid sending you these words of gratefulness. For many years, I have been trying to make myself heard in this sentiment that unites us both: "…as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace." Look at it closely:
a) Professionally
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
But if it was only the fact that he was subject to the weather, it wouldn't be serious, as our climate is not too bad, as you know. The problem is that this dedication to the cause has earned him a non promotion in his career. Indeed, I will explain this to you, even because this case happened when the searches for your daughter were under way. My husband applied to the category of Superior Coordinator, and in between drug apprehensions, sequestrations and homicides, he somehow managed to produce a thesis about drug trafficking by sea, which he defended in Lisbon, in front of a Jury that congratulated him. Full of hope, Gonçalo Amaral returns to the Algarve and awaits the result. To his surprise, he was passed over by other colleagues (real coordinators, truth be told), because he had not been able to score points in the "professional formation" parameter. That's right, Mrs Kate, my husband spent his life working, involved in complex investigations, he was the man who apprehended the highest volumes of drugs in Portugal, but given the fact that he had no time to go to Lisbon to parade himself up and down the corridors of the PJ's Institute, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!
- As you probably know, even because you seem like a very well informed person to me, my husband's salary was less than 1.5 times the lowest salary in your country. But as a wife, as a mother and as a Portuguese citizen, I can't complain, because Gonçalo Amaral's salary was equal to 4.5 times the lowest salary in Portugal. But pay attention to the following, which is an example of what I'm going to explain next: At some point, an individual shoots a member of the PSP [urban police] and flees into neighbouring Spain. A PJ team follows him, including my husband. They stayed there for over two weeks. Now at that time, the international expense coverage was around 100 euros. As you can easily imagine, it's not possible to sleep and eat in Spain with this amount of money, much less shortly before Christmas and taking into account that the value will only be paid at around Easter time (if one's lucky). But Gonçalo Amaral never refused, not even for one day, to search for the escaped murderer, relaying the expenses onto our family accounts. And this is just one example among many. At some point in time, I suggested that we should create a fund or something similar to deal with these extraordinary expenses, but he never listened to me. You see, we also have mortgages to pay around here… A disgrace, Mrs Kate, a disgrace!
b) As a person, his behaviour has also been a disgrace, because to begin with we could never distinguish that he even had a personal life, due to the manner in which he dealt with the profession that he embraced. But if my good friend Mrs Kate allows me, I can offer you some examples:
- 5 years ago, a child named Joana "disappeared". Her mother, just like you, Mrs Kate, tried to project the case into the media, but she didn't make it any further than SIC…
Eight days later, came the confessions and the evidence: during an incestuous act between mother and uncle, the child was beaten, then dismembered and her body dumped who knows where. Mother and uncle went to jail, in a process that was coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral and which earned them almost 20 years in jail, each. But let us go a bit back in time. The child died on the 12th of September. On Christmas eve, our family was reunited for prayer, when my husband asked me to prepare a bag with some food and warm clothes, because he had not carried out his Christmas act of penance. Can you, Mrs Kate, imagine where Gonçalo Amaral went on that Christmas night under heavy rain and thunder? He went to the Olhão Prison, where João Cipriano, Joana's uncle, a confessed murderer and a clinically diagnosed psychopath, is detained. According to my husband, to simply offer an alimony to some beggar was not a sacrifice to him. The fact that he embraced and shared his Christmas meal with João Cipriano was the sacrifice that he offered to God, in memory of Joana. Is this not a disgrace? You should also know that every year, on the 12th of September, my husband has a mass celebrated in memory of Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro. He says that nobody will ever remember the poor little girl again. Right, but they remember to unjustly accuse him of actions and crimes that he never committed. Isn't this a disgrace, Mrs Kate?
- There is a last episode that I will report to you, one that I still find hard to talk about. Last year, in May, we started to move our family to Portimão. My husband was supposed to enjoy a holiday period starting on the day after your daughter's disappearance. "For obvious reasons" that didn't happen. I started on a new job, looked for a house, moved house, and tried to integrate our daughters in new schools and new routines. All of this I did alone, without any help from my husband, who for obvious reasons, was looking for your daughter, Mrs Kate. In October, on his birthday, a week after our daughters started school, Gonçalo Amaral was dismissed and returned to Faro. This was supposed to be the time of the family's reunion and it turned out to be another separation. Isn't this a disgrace? Our daughters never managed to understand, and we never managed to explain to them what obvious reasons were those that rewarded in this manner a father who left his own daughters to go looking for a child that he had never met and whose parents had neglected her. It was a pity that my dear friend Mrs Kate was not around anymore at that date, because you could have been very helpful to me in explaining these "obvious reasons" that led to their father's dismissal, to our daughters.
Finally, I can only report to you that intimately, Gonçalo Amaral is precisely what the latinos are famed for: shameless, as my pudency does not allow me to write any further.
I ask you, my good friend, to forgive these confidences from a wife and mother, but I'm certain that you will understand. I finish this letter asking you to send your mother my most sincere praises. She sounded so sincere to me, when during an interview she referred that she felt like slapping the face of the person who left her grandchildren alone. She spoke so openly that she sounded like a genuine Portuguese grandmother…
My dear friend Mrs Kate, without wishing to bother you any further, I would like to request one last favour from you: now that you have started to tell some truths, please continue, and let the world hear the truth that it has been waiting for.
Best regards,
Sofia Leal
Wife and Mother of the Daughters of Gonçalo Amaral
Oh dear. Someone who can make the Liverpudlians look stiff upper-lipped.
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Oh dear. Someone who can make the Liverpudlians look stiff upper-lipped.
I never found stiff upper lips particularly attractive myself
This woman has done no harm to anyone that I know of
The venom directed at her takes my breath away
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I never found stiff upper lips particularly attractive myself
This woman has done no harm to anyone that I know of
The venom directed at her takes my breath away
She's not (was not) the first woman to be married to a man with a demanding career who puts in many extra hours and spends nights away from home. Instead of addressing her frustrations, she takes them out on Kate McCann. Completely irrational.
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She's not (was not) the first woman to be married to a man with a demanding career who puts in many extra hours and spends nights away from home. Instead of addressing her frustrations, she takes them out on Kate McCann. Completely irrational.
And in this whole sorry saga, and amongst all the sorry characters that have played a part ... THIS woman should be reviled ?
I don't think so
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I never found stiff upper lips particularly attractive myself
This woman has done no harm to anyone that I know of
The venom directed at her takes my breath away
Leal would have known full well that this letter would have brought further upset and pain to someone already vulnerable. As I said before, Leal is disgusting.
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You will find that those who support the MccANNS will think she had no right to write the letter and she should be ashamed of herself and those who support amaral will think she is in the right. I think she should keep her big mouth shut
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You will find that those who support the MccANNS will think she had no right to write the letter and she should be ashamed of herself and those who support amaral will think she is in the right. I think she should keep her big mouth shut
'You will find that those who support the MccANNS will think she had no right to write the letter'
WHAT A PRETENTIOUS AND ARROGANT THING TO SAY.
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'You will find that those who support the MccANNS will think she had no right to write the letter'
WHAT A PRETENTIOUS AND ARROGANT THING TO SAY.
Have you got your head in the sand.......read the posts...I think her letter is pretentiious and arrogant
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Have you got your head in the sand.......read the posts...I think her letter is pretentiious and arrogant
Of course you do, you support the Mccanns.
Now just remind me............
Which 2 people are responsible for this whole case ?
Tough question, isn't it. 8((()*/
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Of course you do, you support the Mccanns.
Now just remind me............
Which 2 people are responsible for this whole case ?
Tough question, isn't it. 8((()*/
In my opinion the abductor is responsible for the case...I didn't realise there were two of them
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Have you got your head in the sand.......read the posts...I think her letter is pretentiious and arrogant
Well you will point out which parts are pretentious then and arrogant
!
Seems a pretty simple letter to me, outlining facts, good on her!! I suppose if someone went on tv and called your wife a slag eg you wouldnt respond, hey? And very measured she was too.
@)(++(*
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In my opinion the abductor is responsible for the case...I didn't realise there were two of them
Once again the mythical abductor.
No just two people and we all know who they are,don't we davel ? 8((()*/
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Once again the mythical abductor.
No just two people and we all know who they are,don't we davel ? 8((()*/
The nutters on the internet think its Kate and Gerry, SY don't. Ill go with SY
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The nutters on the internet think its Kate and Gerry, SY don't. Ill go with SY
Yes, I'm going with SY too. They've been on this for almost 2 and a half years now and know much, much more than any conspiracy theorist on the net.
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The nutters on the internet think its Kate and Gerry, SY don't. Ill go with SY
Really.
So who was it it that left 3 children in an unlocked apartment, unprotected, whilst they wined and dined ?
The tooth fairy ?
If that's the best you can do , go back to the drawing board.
If SY really had a clue, pun intended, Madeleine would have been found by now, or has that fact escaped your attention ?
I do wonder why the kind of almost religious devotion seen on here and elsewhere is given to this pair who placed their social recreation over their children's safety. 8-)(--)
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Yes, I'm going with SY too. They've been on this for almost 2 and a half years now and know much, much more than any conspiracy theorist on the net.
and they've found.........................
ZIP. 8((()*/
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Your post just got me thinking, Anne.
What about the potential damage to the twins that could be caused by reading 'Madeleine'?
Or watching Gerry and Kate McCann in one of their many interviews - no 'Dr' Amaral in sight?
Couldn't the twins be damaged by the topics under discussion -or by Kate's graphic descriptions? Will the McCanns, chez McCann, be banning their own book?
How can they ? The graphic reductive description is damaging not for what it is but for who wrote it.
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I think Kate McCanns words were mild considering the circumstances. If I was Amaral I would be more concerned about how to explain his criminal conviction to his daughter when that time arrives. That's one thing he can't blame on the McCanns.
Don't you think better to leave curses to witches ?
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Don't you think better to leave curses to witches ?
I think Leal has got that one covered.....
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How can they ? The graphic reductive description is damaging not for what it is but for who wrote it.
[/b]
That's really what I mean. The fact that their parents have chosen to place sensitive personal material in the commercial domain - with the publication of 'Madeleine' - does not speak of any sensitivity to the twins.
Kate and Gerry can tell the twins that Amaral is a crook who has published for his own gain and doesn't care about the feelings of others. But what about 'Madeleine'? It may refute Amaral's thesis, but in so doing brings up topics that the McCanns are arguing they don't want the twins knowing about. Unless they prevented the twins from reading it, it is inevitable that the twins are going to encounter the ideas of Amaral. So why go to such great lengths to sue him?
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[/b]
That's really what I mean. The fact that their parents have chosen to place sensitive personal material in the commercial domain - with the publication of 'Madeleine' - does not speak of any sensitivity to the twins.
Kate and Gerry can tell the twins that Amaral is a crook who has published for his own gain and doesn't care about the feelings of others. But what about 'Madeleine'? It may refute Amaral's thesis, but in so doing brings up topics that the McCanns are arguing they don't want the twins knowing about. Unless they prevented the twins from reading it, it is inevitable that the twins are going to encounter the ideas of Amaral. So why go to such great lengths to sue him?
Just the same as leal has decided to enter the public domain with her letter criticising the McCanns then she has made herself fair game for anyone who wishes to criticise her.......as I said she should have kept her big mouth shut
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Just the same as leal has decided to enter the public domain with her letter criticising the McCanns then she has made herself fair game for anyone who wishes to criticise her.......as I said she should have kept her big mouth shut
Personally I find Leal's letter to be reasonable and well-constructed. I have no problem whatsoever with what she's said and I can completely understand her reason for doing it. I know that you will find my opinion infuriating and/or invalid but there's the rub... I'm still entitled to it. Sofia Leal had every right to write that letter as from her point of view the McCanns were damaging her husband. You are in no position whatsoever to criticise her for standing up for what she believed in especially as she did it in a reasonable manner.
You and others who share your opinions continually criticise and accuse those of us that don't of hating the McCanns, harassing the McCanns and god knows what else. I've seen nothing from the so-called [ censored word] on this board aimed at the McCanns that has anything like the vitriol, venom or, indeed, hate that I have seen aimed at Amaral in particular and now his (ex) wife. If you've seen worse elsewhere, go and argue with whomever is doing it but leave it off this board please as it has no place.
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Just the same as leal has decided to enter the public domain with her letter criticising the McCanns then she has made herself fair game for anyone who wishes to criticise her.......as I said she should have kept her big mouth shut
Exactly. Doesn't the same apply to Amarals daughters?, who are old enough to read and understand what her father wrote about, Madeleine. And I'm sure they watch TV, and see his interviews.
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Personally I find Leal's letter to be reasonable and well-constructed. I have no problem whatsoever with what she's said and I can completely understand her reason for doing it. I know that you will find my opinion infuriating and/or invalid but there's the rub... I'm still entitled to it. Sofia Leal had every right to write that letter as from her point of view the McCanns were damaging her husband. You are in no position whatsoever to criticise her for standing up for what she believed in especially as she did it in a reasonable manner.
You and others who share your opinions continually criticise and accuse those of us that don't of hating the McCanns, harassing the McCanns and god knows what else. I've seen nothing from the so-called [ censored word] on this board aimed at the McCanns that has anything like the vitriol, venom or, indeed, hate that I have seen aimed at Amaral in particular and now his (ex) wife. If you've seen worse elsewhere, go and argue with whomever is doing it but leave ot off this board please as it has no place.
Im not arguing with anyone just stating my opinion as is my right under European Law...perhaps you forgot that one... so I will repeat as you question my right...she should have kept her big mouth shut
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Im not arguing with anyone just stating my opinion as is my right under European Law...perhaps you forgot that one... so I will repeat as you question my right...she should have kept her big mouth shut
What's your evidence that she's got a big mouth? Sounds libellous to me. 8**8:/:
So you've kind of shot yourself in the foot with that post. Me and every other person that doubts the McCann version of events are just stating our opinions as is our right under European Law. Therefore can you leave us to it and stop being all aggressive and shouty as it ruffles our peaceful karma. Ta. 8((()*/
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Just the same as leal has decided to enter the public domain with her letter criticising the McCanns then she has made herself fair game for anyone who wishes to criticise her.......as I said she should have kept her big mouth shut
Exactly - Leal should have kept her trap shut. Can you imagine the wife of one of the UK team publishing self-serving crap like this in the press? It would never happen.
She has seen fit to heap more pain on a devastated Mum, so she is fair game.
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What's your evidence that she's got a big mouth? Sounds libellous to me. 8**8:/:
So you've kind of shot yourself in the foot with that post. Me and every other person that doubts the McCann version of events are just stating our opinions as is our right under European Law. Therefore can you leave us to it and stop being all aggressive and shouty as it ruffles our peaceful karma. Ta. 8((()*/
Don't need evidence to quote an opinion...ask amaral
Libellous... again ask amaral whats libellous
you are the one who told me to stop posting my opinions on this forum... I suggest you read your own posts
Me and every other person ...what appalling grammar....me is an the object not the subject
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Exactly - Leal should have kept her trap shut. Can you imagine the wife of one of the UK team publishing self-serving crap like this in the press? It would never happen.
She has seen fit to heap more pain on a devastated Mum, so she is fair game.
But Rachel... Davel just said it's ok to state an opinion under European Law. He's just given her every right to speak her mind. Publicly or otherwise. You're just sounding like an irate bully because someone's spoken out against your beloved McCanns.
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Exactly. Doesn't the same apply to Amarals daughters?, who are old enough to read and understand what her father wrote about, Madeleine. And I'm sure they watch TV, and see his interviews.
Amaral defended Madeleine, a thing her parents failed to do. Even today they keep using her to make the news and make money over her name.
I hope that Amaral's daughters are proud of the father they have,
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Personally I find Leal's letter to be reasonable and well-constructed. I have no problem whatsoever with what she's said and I can completely understand her reason for doing it. I know that you will find my opinion infuriating and/or invalid but there's the rub... I'm still entitled to it. Sofia Leal had every right to write that letter as from her point of view the McCanns were damaging her husband. You are in no position whatsoever to criticise her for standing up for what she believed in especially as she did it in a reasonable manner.
You and others who share your opinions continually criticise and accuse those of us that don't of hating the McCanns, harassing the McCanns and god knows what else. I've seen nothing from the so-called [ censored word] on this board aimed at the McCanns that has anything like the vitriol, venom or, indeed, hate that I have seen aimed at Amaral in particular and now his (ex) wife. If you've seen worse elsewhere, go and argue with whomever is doing it but leave it off this board please as it has no place.
my opinion has a place on this board...who the hell do you imagine you are
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Don't need evidence to quote an opinion...ask amaral
Libellous... again ask amaral whats libellous
you are the one who told me to stop posting my opinions on this forum... I suggest you read your own posts
Me and every other person ...what appalling grammar....me is an the object not the subject
Yeah, keep trying to play grammar games with me, I dare you @)(++(*
Where did I tell you to stop? I think you'll find I said stop posting opinions as fact. And not just to you.
You're just getting shoutier and shoutier. Is it a big day tomorrow honey? Got butterflies? Making you a bit stressy?
By your own admission, everyone under European law has a right to speak their opinion. Amaral is even fighting a legal battle about it. Therefore unless you wish to appear as the massive hypocrite you currently appear to be, you can't really criticise Sofia Leal for voicing her opinion now, can you?
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But Rachel... Davel just said it's ok to state an opinion under European Law. He's just given her every right to speak her mind. Publicly or otherwise. You're just sounding like an irate bully because someone's spoken out against your beloved McCanns.
An opinion is one thing, Ripping into Kate McCann who had not long lost her daughter, is another. Leal will have known full well how much distress the letter will have caused but she didn't give a toss.
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my opinion has a place on this board...who the hell do you imagine you are
Get over yourself. If I hadn't put that in there you'd simply have said "oh but but but <splutter, choke, rage> I've seen far worse things said, etc." My point is that on here you haven't. Not recently anyway. Your venom and disgust for Amaral and Sofia Leal is evident for all to see.
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But Rachel... Davel just said it's ok to state an opinion under European Law. He's just given her every right to speak her mind. Publicly or otherwise. You're just sounding like an irate bully because someone's spoken out against your beloved McCanns.
I cant believe you are so stupid.. She states her opinion ...I state mine..whats wrong with taht
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An opinion is one thing, Ripping into Kate McCann who had not long lost her daughter, is another. Leal will have known full well how much distress the letter will have caused but she didn't give a toss.
You have no idea what Leal was/was not thinking. She was defending her husband and she had every right. Just because you disagree with her does not diminish that right.
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Yeah, keep trying to play grammar games with me, I dare you @)(++(*
Where did I tell you to stop? I think you'll find I said stop posting opinions as fact. And not just to you.
You're just getting shoutier and shoutier. Is it a big day tomorrow honey? Got butterflies? Making you a bit stressy?
By your own admission, everyone under European law has a right to speak their opinion. Amaral is even fighting a legal battle about it. Therefore unless you wish to appear as the massive hypocrite you currently appear to be, you can't really criticise Sofia Leal for voicing her opinion now, can you?
I just did and you got it wrong...you made the mistake of putting me as the subject of a verb...lets play grammar games as you put it...defend your appalling grammar
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I cant believe you are so stupid.. She states her opinion ...I state mine..whats wrong with taht
taht? (pathetic picking on these things, isn't it...)
We all state our opinions. You and the McCanns apparently want to censor (or even have prevented it ever having been said - "she should have kept her big mouth shut") anyone whose opinion isn't the same as yours/theirs.
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I just did and you got it wrong...you made the mistake of putting me as the subject of a verb...lets play grammar ganes as you put it...defend your appalling grammar
Dunno what ganes are. Sorry.
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You have no idea what Leal was/was not thinking. She was defending her husband and she had every right. Just because you disagree with her does not diminish that right.
she has every right to act as an absolute ******** (please insert word of your choice) and everyone else has the right to refer to her as the word of her choice
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Dunno what ganes are. Sorry.
you don't understand very much obviously
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she has every right to act as an absolute ******** (please insert word of your choice) and everyone else has the right to refer to her as the word of her choice
I agree with you. She has every right to act as an absolute pillar of strength/lady/wronged wife/human being.
Those were the same words you were thinking of, right? Right? Did you mean "their choice" near the end? Or can she pick the words that other people use to refer to her?
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you don't understand very much obviously
I'm just thankful that wives of UK police officers don't lower themselves like Leal did with her letter, dave.
They clearly have a lot more dignity, and wouldn't dream of heaping further pain onto a devastated Mum.
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you don't understand very much obviously
I understand that you're boiling with rage that Sofia Leal stood up to the gutter-mouthed angel, Kate McCann. How dare that foreign strumpet question our Kate, eh? Where does she get off opening that big mouth of hers and exercising her right under European Law to voice her opinion eh? Damn her and her opinions, how dare she, etc...
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I agree with you. She has every right to act as an absolute pillar of strength/lady/wronged wife/human being.
Those were the same words you were thinking of, right? Right? Did you mean "their choice" near the end? Or can she pick the words that other people use to refer to her?
his is what I said at 7.333 this morning
You will find that those who support the MccANNS will think she had no right to write the letter and she should be ashamed of herself and those who support amaral will think she is in the right. I think she should keep her big mouth shut
Its as simple as taht
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I'm just thankful that wives of UK police officers don't lower themselves like Leal did with her letter, dave.
They clearly have a lot more dignity, and wouldn't dream of heaping further pain onto a devastated Mum.
Well if ever a UK police officer comes under the kind of attacks that Amaral did, it will be interesting to see if his wife feels the need to speak out. Which she had every right to do, yes?
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his is what I said at 7.333 this morning
You will find that those who support the MccANNS will think she had no right to write the letter and she should be ashamed of herself and those who support amaral will think she is in the right. I think she should keep her big mouth shut
Its as simple as taht
Peachy. We agree at last. Taht's taht, eh? 8(0(*
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Well if ever a UK police officer comes under the kind of attacks that Amaral did, it will be interesting to see if his wife feels the need to speak out. Which she had every right to do, yes?
Attacks? Or do you mean the truth being spoken. The UK press have only ever printed the truth, apart from the mistake about the "Forca McCanns" business.
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I understand that you're boiling with rage that Sofia Leal stood up to the gutter-mouthed angel, Kate McCann. How dare that foreign strumpet question our Kate, eh? Where does she get off opening that big mouth of hers and exercising her right under European Law to voice her opinion eh? Damn her and her opinions, how dare she, etc...
the pros and the mcanns wpuld love the internet to be banned or censored of free speech well they are shit out of luck
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the pros and the mcanns wpuld love the internet to be banned or censored of free speech well they are shit out of luck
being kind..I don't think you have a clue. Being kind..the internet gives everyone...however stupid ...a voice
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the pros and the mcanns wpuld love the internet to be banned or censored of free speech well they are shit out of luck
I can't believe that to be true.
They have used the internet to continue their search for Madeleine.
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Well if ever a UK police officer comes under the kind of attacks that Amaral did, it will be interesting to see if his wife feels the need to speak out. Which she had every right to do, yes?
has any UK officer ever come under this attack
Would any uk police officer be in charge of an investigation when he was currently being investigated for his role in the torture of a suspect
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has any UK officer ever come under this attack
Would any uk police officer be in charge of an investigation when he was currently being investigated for his role in the torture of a suspect
A UK Police officer under investigation would have been immediately suspended.
Amaral should never have been allowed within a million miles of the Madeleine case.
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has any UK officer ever come under this attack
Would any uk police officer be in charge of an investigation when he was currently being investigated for his role in the torture of a suspect
Good point, davel. A nonsense.
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Im not arguing with anyone just stating my opinion as is my right under European Law...perhaps you forgot that one... so I will repeat as you question my right...she should have kept her big mouth shut
There's fortunately no European Law allowing people to be crude.
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Good point, davel. A nonsense.
A nonsense of the Ministério Publico ? This is the justice system of a country that you're accusing here.
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A UK Police officer under investigation would have been immediately suspended.
Conclusion, if you feel like leaving your kids unattended, make sure you're at home ?
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There's fortunately no European Law allowing people to be crude.
So being crude..as you put it ...is censored in European law...I just love to laugh at the things you say
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Conclusion, if you feel like leaving your kids unattended, make sure you're at home ?
Conclusion: Amaral should never have been allowed anywhere near this case.
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in 6 years no pros have ever grasped the mcanns would never be in this sitation if they had been responsible parents and stayed with their kids nothing will ever take that away
you obviously haven't been paying attention for six years
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has any UK officer ever come under this attack
Would any uk police officer be in charge of an investigation when he was currently being investigated for his role in the torture of a suspect
So xenophobic ! As if all human cadavers weren't smelling the same.
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Conclusion: Amaral should never have been allowed anywhere near this case.
You're libelling a State, Rachel. Be careful.
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You're libelling a State, Rachel. Be careful.
I don't think Portugal could defend this statement.
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So being crude..as you put it ...is censored in European law...I just love to laugh at the things you say
Why are you pretending I said the opposite ? A little crisis of xenophobia ?
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I don't think Portugal could defend this statement.
Think more.
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Just a thought... If Sofia Leal had wanted to genuinely reach out to Kate McCann, why didn't she just right to her -privately?
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Just a thought... If Sofia Leal had wanted to genuinely reach out to Kate McCann, why didn't she just right to her -privately?
She didnt want to *reach out to her*
@)(++(*
in the same way Kate Mccann didnt want to *reach out* to amaral by calling hm a disgrace
LoL
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A nonsense of the Ministério Publico ? This is the justice system of a country that you're accusing here.
Well, it is hard to digest that Amaral was presumed innocent until proven guilty, yet managed simultaneously to publish a book about the McCanns in the capacity of judge, jury and executioner - with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
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She didnt want to *reach out to her*
@)(++(*
in the same way Kate Mccann didnt want to *reach out* to amaral by calling hm a disgrace
LoL
Different thing completely. If Leal was trying to actually do the mother to mother, wife to wife claim she could have written privately.
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Different thing completely. If Leal was trying to actually do the mother to mother, wife to wife claim she could have written privately.
Dont be so silly kate mccann went on NATIONAL TV TO SLAG OFF AMARAL.get it no? His wifes response was very tame compared
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Dont be so silly kate mccann went on NATIONAL TV TO SLAG OFF AMARAL.get it no? His wifes response was very tame compared
Under the circumstances I think I would've done the same thing. An open letter means anyone can read it leaving no room for any words to be misconstrued at a later date when giving interviews, and it's there on the internet to check for accuracy should a sentence or paragraph be quoted.
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Under the circumstances I think I would've done the same thing. An open letter means anyone can read it leaving no room for any words to be misconstrued at a later date when giving interviews, and it's there on the internet to check for accuracy should a sentence or paragraph be quoted.
Are you condoning this attack on a struggling Mum? Leal had no business doing this.
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Different thing completely. If Leal was trying to actually do the mother to mother, wife to wife claim she could have written privately.
Agreed. This was a cynical attempt to bring more pain to Kate McCann, and it is inexcusable.
Kate McCann is a better person than me. I would have written back with a few home truths about Dear Hubby and asking a few questions about when they swindled Amaral's brother. The Golden Bullets tape would have got a mention too...
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Well, it is hard to digest that Amaral was presumed innocent until proven guilty, yet managed simultaneously to publish a book about the McCanns in the capacity of judge, jury and executioner - with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
I havn't read Amaral's book ( and am presuming you have )
If his thesis has, as you say, "no supporting evidence whasoever" ... what has he written about ?
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I havn't read Amaral's book ( and am presuming you have )
If his thesis has, as you say, "no supporting evidence whasoever" ... what has he written about ?
Let's start with Madeleine's frozen remains being transported in the Scenic.
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Let's start with Madeleine's frozen remains being transported in the Scenic.
Do you agree with Sherlock then, Rachel ... that Amaral's book contains no evidence whatsoever to support his theory ?
( I'll have to read it one of these days, but for now I'll take the word of forum members about it's content )
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I havn't read Amaral's book ( and am presuming you have )
If his thesis has, as you say, "no supporting evidence whasoever" ... what has he written about ?
I'm very surprised that you haven't read his book Icabodcrane! May I suggest you do - -- keeping in mind that Amaral had never met or spoken to the McCanns when he wrote it.
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Do you agree with Sherlock then, Rachel ... that Amaral's book contains no evidence whatsoever to support his theory ?
( I'll have to read it one of these days, but for now I'll take the word of forum members about it's content )
It's packed with deception. icabod. He gives the impression that he was there, on the ball - yet he had never even met or spoken to Kate and Gerry McCann.
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I'm very surprised that you haven't read his book Icabodcrane! May I suggest you do - -- keeping in mind that Amaral had never met or spoken to the McCanns when he wrote it.
I've only just finished reading Kate McCann's book, but I will track Amaral's down on line I think ... I sometimes feel unqualified to contribute to threads/debate because I havn't even read the book this trial is about
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Leal's letter has done plenty of damage to Portugal.
Can you imagine the wife of a UK officer writing an "open letter" heaping further pain onto the Mum of Sarah Payne, or Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman?
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An example of Amaral's attempts to con the reader into thinking he was there.
From Kates book
It was seven thirty by the time one of the PJ officers drove us away from the polilce station. Angela Morado came with us. Ten or fifteen minutes into our journey the police officer had a call from his station. He said something to Angela, who explained that he'd been ordered to return us to the police station straight away. He wasn't alloed to tell us why. Already driving at quite a scary speed, he suddenly swung the car into a U turn, floored the accelerator and drove us at a life-threatening 120mph plus back towards Portimao. I cannot overstate how terrifying this was. Had Madeleline been found? Please God. Was she alive? Was she dead? Gerry and I clung on to each other for dear life. I was crying hysterically and praying for all I was worth.
Back at the police station we endured at least another ten minutes of torture in the waiting area before somebody showed us a photograh,clearly taken from CCTV, of a blond child with a woman in a petrol-station shop. We weren't told anything about this, just asked whether the little girl was Madeleine. . She wasn't. And that was that. Again we were sent on our way, utterly devastated.
From Amarals book
FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION
Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.
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IMO in those circumstances - to call them back like that with no explanation, even if it was unintentional, bordered on the sadistic. It's quite plain to me that even the driver thought something momentous had happened which is why he drove like a bat out of hell.
Amaral wasn't there to witness their reaction - but would you know that from what he says about the incident in his book? I think not.
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I havn't read Amaral's book ( and am presuming you have )
If his thesis has, as you say, "no supporting evidence whasoever" ... what has he written about ?
Well to be honest I haven't read the book yet either - kind of putting it off.
Perhaps it was a bit sweeping what I said, but the point I was trying to make was that, as far as I can gather, he is attempting to construct a scenario, for whatever reasons he may have, where the McCanns are guilty, rather than looking at what evidence there actually exists and work from there. As far as I understand, he does say that the McCanns covered up the death of their daughter, for example - no evidence for this at all.
I was really pointing out the irony of him, as defendant, having the privilege of innocence until proven guilty, when he is accusing others of things that he - or anyone else for that matter - is manifestly unable to prove.
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Well to be honest I haven't read the book yet either - kind of putting it off.
Perhaps it was a bit sweeping what I said, but the point I was trying to make was that, as far as I can gather, he is attempting to construct a scenario, for whatever reasons he may have, where the McCanns are guilty, rather than looking at what evidence there actually exists and work from there. As far as I understand, he does say that the McCanns covered up the death of their daughter, for example - no evidence for this at all.
I was really pointing out the irony of him, as defendant, having the privilege of innocence until proven guilty, when he is accusing others of things that he - or anyone else for that matter - is manifestly unable to prove.
Amaral never met or spoke to the McCanns, Sherlock. Yet he saw fit to write a book cashing in on their misery.
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Amaral never met or spoke to the McCanns, Sherlock. Yet he saw fit to write a book cashing in on their misery.
Sheer misuse and abuse of 'power'.
I am going to start calling him 'Amaral'.
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Sheer misuse and abuse of 'power'.
I am going to start calling him 'Amaral'.
How the devil can someone write a book about people they have never met or even spoken to. In his book, Amaral gives the impression that he was there, on the ball, speaking to them.
Garbage.
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An example of Amaral's attempts to con the reader into thinking he was there.
From Kates book
It was seven thirty by the time one of the PJ officers drove us away from the polilce station. Angela Morado came with us. Ten or fifteen minutes into our journey the police officer had a call from his station. He said something to Angela, who explained that he'd been ordered to return us to the police station straight away. He wasn't alloed to tell us why. Already driving at quite a scary speed, he suddenly swung the car into a U turn, floored the accelerator and drove us at a life-threatening 120mph plus back towards Portimao. I cannot overstate how terrifying this was. Had Madeleline been found? Please God. Was she alive? Was she dead? Gerry and I clung on to each other for dear life. I was crying hysterically and praying for all I was worth.
Back at the police station we endured at least another ten minutes of torture in the waiting area before somebody showed us a photograh,clearly taken from CCTV, of a blond child with a woman in a petrol-station shop. We weren't told anything about this, just asked whether the little girl was Madeleine. . She wasn't. And that was that. Again we were sent on our way, utterly devastated.
From Amarals book
FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION
Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.
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IMO in those circumstances - to call them back like that with no explanation, even if it was unintentional, bordered on the sadistic. It's quite plain to me that even the driver thought something momentous had happened which is why he drove like a bat out of hell.
Amaral wasn't there to witness their reaction - but would you know that from what he says about the incident in his book? I think not.
That's really interesting Benice ... how the same event can appear so different when told by either side
Now I really must find Amaral's book on the net ... I have Kate's already, and it will be very interesting to compare both versions of events ( and try to read between the lines of both )
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That's really interesting Benice ... how the same event can appear so different when told by either side
Now I really must find Amaral's book on the net ... I have Kate's already, and it will be very interesting to compare both versions of events ( and try to read between the lines of both )
Yes, give it a read icabod. Bear in mind when you read, that Amaral had never even met or spoken to Kate and Gerry McCann.
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Sheer misuse and abuse of 'power'.
I am going to start calling him 'Amaral'.
I really don't think you should
If others start calling Kate and Gerry the 'McScams' in response, it will be difficult to object
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An example of Amaral's attempts to con the reader into thinking he was there.
From Kates book
It was seven thirty by the time one of the PJ officers drove us away from the polilce station. Angela Morado came with us. Ten or fifteen minutes into our journey the police officer had a call from his station. He said something to Angela, who explained that he'd been ordered to return us to the police station straight away. He wasn't alloed to tell us why. Already driving at quite a scary speed, he suddenly swung the car into a U turn, floored the accelerator and drove us at a life-threatening 120mph plus back towards Portimao. I cannot overstate how terrifying this was. Had Madeleline been found? Please God. Was she alive? Was she dead? Gerry and I clung on to each other for dear life. I was crying hysterically and praying for all I was worth.
Back at the police station we endured at least another ten minutes of torture in the waiting area before somebody showed us a photograh,clearly taken from CCTV, of a blond child with a woman in a petrol-station shop. We weren't told anything about this, just asked whether the little girl was Madeleine. . She wasn't. And that was that. Again we were sent on our way, utterly devastated.
From Amarals book
FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION
Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.
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IMO in those circumstances - to call them back like that with no explanation, even if it was unintentional, bordered on the sadistic. It's quite plain to me that even the driver thought something momentous had happened which is why he drove like a bat out of hell.
Amaral wasn't there to witness their reaction - but would you know that from what he says about the incident in his book? I think not.
A very interesting illustration there, Benice. Thank you. I really have to bring myself to read this book..ugh.
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I really don't think you should
If others start calling Kate and Gerry the 'McScams' in response, it will be difficult to object
Good point. I will try to restrain myself.
Can feel another dose of the seven per cent solution coming on...
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A very interesting illustration there, Benice. Thank you. I really have to bring myself to read this book..ugh.
Give it a read, Sherlock - and as I said to icabod, bear in mind when reading that Amaral had never even met or spoken to Kate and Gerry McCann.
OT: What do you make of this American woman who is trying to claim the rights to Sherlock Holmes? Perhaps we could start a discussion in the OT area of the forum?
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Good point. I will try to restrain myself.
Can feel another dose of the seven per cent solution coming on...
It's difficult, but icabod has a point!
Another bottle of Leffe for me! 8)-)))
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Give it a read, Sherlock - and as I said to icabod, bear in mind when reading that Amaral had never even met or spoken to Kate and Gerry McCann.
OT: What do you make of this American woman who is trying to claim the rights to Sherlock Holmes? Perhaps we could start a discussion in the OT area of the forum?
Thanks for that advice, Rachel.
I didn't hear of this claiming of rights.. will get on to this straight away. Sometimes Dr Watson can be a bit too loose with the literary leash...
Enjoy the Leffe!
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Thanks for that advice, Rachel.
I didn't hear of this claiming of rights.. will get on to this straight away. Sometimes Dr Watson can be a bit too loose with the literary leash...
Enjoy the Leffe!
Yes saw it in the UK press this week that an American woman is trying to stop the UK BBC drama series "Sherlock" as she claims to have the rights, will try and come up with the link for you.
Leffe - you either love it or hate it. I love it! 8((()*/
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Are you condoning this attack on a struggling Mum? Leal had no business doing this.
My reply was in response to LagosBen's question (although looking back I see I hit the quote button on Redblossom's post for some reason):
“Just a thought... If Sofia Leal had wanted to genuinely reach out to Kate McCann, why didn't she just right to her -privately?”
My reply had nothing to do with whether or not I condone anything. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion from my words.
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Let's start with Madeleine's frozen remains being transported in the Scenic.
Just my personal thoughts, considering the investigation was beginning to look at an accidental death rather than an abduction then I'm more inclined to believe that what might have been transported in the car was items that had been in contact with Madeleine's body. That's IF Madeleine died in Praia da Luz and IF her parents had something to do with hiding her body.
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My reply was in response to LagosBen's question (although looking back I see I hit the quote button on Redblossom's post for some reason):
“Just a thought... If Sofia Leal had wanted to genuinely reach out to Kate McCann, why didn't she just right to her -privately?”
My reply had nothing to do with whether or not I condone anything. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion from my words.
You said "Under the circumstances I think I would've done the same thing".
So, if you were the wife of a police officer you would have published a letter to a devastated Mum, knowing how much pain it would cause?
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Just my personal thoughts, considering the investigation was beginning to look at an accidental death rather than an abduction then I'm more inclined to believe that what might have been transported in the car was items that had been in contact with Madeleine's body. That's IF Madeleine died in Praia da Luz and IF her parents had something to do with hiding her body.
On what grounds were they beginning to look at an accidental death?
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You said "Under the circumstances I think I would've done the same thing".
So, if you were the wife of a police officer you would have published a letter to a devastated Mum, knowing how much pain it would cause?
My full quote:
"Under the circumstances I think I would've done the same thing. An open letter means anyone can read it leaving no room for any words to be misconstrued at a later date when giving interviews, and it's there on the internet to check for accuracy should a sentence or paragraph be quoted."
I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear Rachel. The mainstream media were (in my opinion) reading more into things than they should (hypodermic needle and bloody footprint as examples). This is an extraordinary case that has resulted in one persons word against another.
No, not normally, but in this case I would be nervous writing anything in private in case my words were later misquoted or misconstrued and expanded on by the mainstream media. So, under those circumstances I would have done the same.
I seem to be spending more time trying to explain what I mean than I am discussing the case 8(8-))
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My full quote:
"Under the circumstances I think I would've done the same thing. An open letter means anyone can read it leaving no room for any words to be misconstrued at a later date when giving interviews, and it's there on the internet to check for accuracy should a sentence or paragraph be quoted."
I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear Rachel. The mainstream media were (in my opinion) reading more into things than they should (hypodermic needle and bloody footprint as examples). This is an extraordinary case that has resulted in one persons word against another.
No, not normally, but in this case I would be nervous writing anything in private in case my words were later misquoted or misconstrued and expanded on by the mainstream media. So, under those circumstances I would have done the same.
I seem to be spending more time trying to explain what I mean than I am discussing the case 8(8-))
OK cheers Jacinta, but the point I am trying to make is that Leal should not have written anything at all.
She had no business having a go at Kate McCann.
Can you imagine the wife of a UK Officer writing a nasty letter to the Mum of Sarah Payne, thankfully it would never be allowed to happen in the UK.
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Oh strewth. I've tried staying out of this one for a few days but this is ridiculous. I just read the last three pages straight off. The primary two things that leap out are both from Rachel which are "he (amaral) never even met them, you know" and "Leal had no right"... "can you imagine the wife of a uk officer, etc." both repeated over and over and over...
This line of - not even argument - it's not much short of gossip is just pointless. It doesn't matter whether Amaral met the McCanns or not! Good grief, he's using "we" as an investigative force not as an "I was there so I know" boast or something. You were perfectly happy for him to get caned by the portuguese courts for being involved with the Leonor Cipriano debacle when he wasn't present at the time, but now it suits your argument suddenly you find it invalid for him to comment as he wasn't there. Don't you think, as coordinator, that he was in a prime position to collate all this information and be in a position of authority to subsequently write about it. Maybe he could have written it in a different style, but maybe he did and it was mistranslated or maybe he's not a great author. It doesn't matter as the facts he is describing are those that are in the official files and/or reported directly from his officers.
Once again you (Rachel and Benice) are assuming that all in Kate McCann's book is true and therefore anything that contradicts it is false. This is not an objective position to be taking.
As to the Sofia Leal thing. Comparing Kate McCann to the parents of Wells/Chapman/Payne is not a fair comparison in the slightest. None of those parents have been under investigation for involvement in what befell their daughters. Neither were any of the police roundly criticised and abused in the gutter UK press. If, say, one of those parents did start to use the press to criticise the police handling of the case and started specifically picking on one particular senior officer and he received condemnation in the press for what happened I would fully support the wife of that officer writing an open letter to that parent stating the truth from her point of view if she found the criticism unfair.
The problem is there is no comparison. The McCanns caused the problem however you look at it (either directly or indirectly via their absence - regardless of what they could or could not have expected to happen). They then went on the offensive rather than admit their mistake (please don't try and say they have admitted it, this is a pro myth. Do I have to mention "responsible parenting"?) and quite happily allowed (maybe even fed, who knows) the press furore and abuse towards amaral and his men. Simply, it appears, because they had the temerity to disbelieve the McCann version of events. Amaral came in for some furiously xenophobic treatment (remember the idiotic "f*ck the mccanns" stupidity from BBC EM?) and I do not blame Sofia Leal one bit for sticking up for her husband.
All this tugging at the heartstrings, Barbara Cartland-esque prose you come out with about "poor hurt, grieving Kate" is nonsensical. Whilst one or both of them may well be completely innocent of any involvement in their daughter's "disappearance", they have manifestly failed to demonstrate that thus far, which is exactly why we are still having conversations like this 6 years on.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SYlxuSsQyeI/AAAAAAAADeQ/0c6O_hvvytY/s200/kate+happy2.jpg) (http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_03/mccannsmilerG1609_468x665.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4Pi-N74IFsA/Tkx0i9yrMNI/AAAAAAAABTU/E31jMVUv7vQ/s400/mccann%2527s4.jpg)
Simply devastated, poor love.
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Cherrypicking photographs in an attempt to prove a point is a cheapshot as there are far more photos of them looking absolutely distraught which could also be produced.
As far as Kate's book is concerned, I remain convinced that it will have been examined to the Nth degree before it went to publication to ensure that there is nothing in it that can be proved to be a untrue - and there is nothing in it that can be construed as libellous. No-one is suing the McCanns for libel re her book.
If the fact that Amaral has never met or spoken to the McCanns is so unimportant, then why does he conceal that fact in his book? It appears it was very important to him to hide that particular fact from his readers and IMO it was a deceitful action to convince the readers of the veracity of some of his claims - which would not be so convincing if they knew they were based on 'hearsay' or on second/third hand opinions of other people.
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This line of - not even argument - it's not much short of gossip is just pointless.
I agree absolutely with this quote from your post above.
To pretend that your pathetic cherry-picking of photographs is in any way relevant to what happened to Madeleine McCann is pointless.
It is no more than the harridan cackling of nasty women picking on each other at the school gate, gossiping over the way each of them act. It is no more valid than the squawking from some anti McCanns about the fact that Kate felt it important to dress properly. Yes, she did smile occasionally, she has two other children to support and life must continue for them. Yes, she and Gerry do believe that dressing appropriately is important. A certain other person who is currently in the dock in regard to this case clearly does not believe the same. Gossip works two ways, you know.
And I disagree with you completely that it is irrelevant that Amaral met the McCanns. He made personal judgements based on their character and did not even look them in the face before doing so. Then he made allegations about them in his book (designed to rescue his lost honour and make him substantial monies) whilst hiding the fact that he had never even been in contact with them.
Your attitude about the lead detective in the case of missing Madeleine claiming its perfectly natural for him not to bother even talking to the parents of the missing child he is searching for is quite shocking.
Can anyone believe that the lead detective in a British case would not meet the parents of a missing toddler simply to reassure them that his team was doing everything possible?
Can anyone believe that a caring parent coordinating a team of detectives in the hunt for a missing child would not think that part of his duties?
Can anyone truly believe that a father of a child the same age would not want at least to offer his assurances that he was doing his best for the parents of a missing toddler?
And as for your harping on about Kate's book not being truthful Well when you manage to prove a single lie in the book, then and only then might we take your cynicism with anything other than a very large pinch of salt.
The fact remains that the letter from Sofia Leal to Kate McCann has no equivalent that I know of from any other officer's wife in any other case. It is a spiteful letter defending the indefensible. And the oddest thing about it is that even Joana Morais could only describe it as having been written "ironically" when she published it. It is one of the few things on which I agree with the woman.
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I find the hypocrisy of the Mccann supporters increasingly stupid and downright pathetic.
The Mccans directly or indirectly through friends and associates have attacked others.
Amaral's wife whether they like it or not had every right to write a letter.
The obvious abuse and hatred is evident in km's work of fiction, ignoring the Mill's and Boon element.
It is all about her and her husband, and their pursuit of revenge and money.
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I find the hypocrisy of the Mccann supporters increasingly stupid and downright pathetic.
The Mccans directly or indirectly through friends and associates have attacked others.
Amaral's wife whether they like it or not had every right to write a letter.
The obvious abuse and hatred is evident in km's work of fiction, ignoring the Mill's and Boon element.
It is all about her and her husband, and their pursuit of revenge and money.
they clearly are damaged people it shows by their menacing tone about GA layers child it doesnt matyter how old someones child is if they are adult or not they are still that persons child at least they didnt abandon the child like the mcanns no matter how old the person is as i say i wonder if some pros were sent away as a child they are cold hearted
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I find the hypocrisy of the Mccann supporters increasingly stupid and downright pathetic.
The Mccans directly or indirectly through friends and associates have attacked others.
Amaral's wife whether they like it or not had every right to write a letter.
The obvious abuse and hatred is evident in km's work of fiction, ignoring the Mill's and Boon element.
It is all about her and her husband, and their pursuit of revenge and money.
What is increasingly evident is that you are calling Kate McCann's book a work of fiction without offering any evidence to show us why you actually believe that.
Your inability to provide a single example of a lie in the book is what is pathetic, because even without such you are continuing to lie about the book.
Your post above highlights perfectly the anti McCann stance. It is a very bitter and rather twisted post in fact.
You have no proof of your claims but still think it perfectly reasonable to post extremely abusive claims about the McCanns, the parents who are still hoping one day to be re-united with their missing daugther, Madeleine.
Your post is pure libel and I hope that the adimin of this forum realise that and deal with it.
And I repeat it is wholly significant in my view that Joana Morais, that staunch Amaral fan told us all that Sofia Leal was ironically writing such a letter.
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they clearly are damaged people it shows by their menacing tone about GA layers child it doesnt matyter how old someones child is if they are adult or not they are still that persons child at least they didnt abandon the child like the mcanns no matter how old the person is as i say i wonder if some pros were sent away as a child they are cold hearted
It is not abandoning a child to allow an adult to go to hospital for a scheduled appointment for surgery on the hand. It is reneging on your professional duties to pretend that this is some kind of urgent request when you knew about it the night before, so that a whole group of people have their day disrupted so that you can be at the hospital before a small piece of surgery. Could the lawyer not have comforted the poor adult child before he or she left for the hospital?
It is not actually correct to state that the McCanns abandoned their child either. As that crime was dismissed by the Portuguese court it is libel to state that openly in the way you have done.
Your rather irrelevant comment about boarding schools really does you no favours. The lawyer's child is an adult. Are you seriously suggesting the world would be a better place if everyone, like you, lived at home with mummy and daddy till they were 34 years old?
The vast proportion of the population of Portugal, the UK and even Australia are able to cope with the perils of adulthood including minor pre-arranged surgery without the need for mummy and daddy to be permanently present in their lives. Indeed, I have known a good few Australians who over the years have travelled all the way across the world at the young age of 18 or 19 and worked in such perilous places as bars and clubs over here in the UK and they haven't to the best of my knowledge brought mummy and daddy with them.
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And I repeat it is wholly significant in my view that Joana Morais, that staunch Amaral fan told us all that Sofia Leal was ironically writing such a letter.
Are you really - REALLY - unable to see what is ironic in Sofia Leal's letter? Honestly? You are choosing an interpretation that suits your agenda and entirely missing the point, if that's so @)(++(*
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What is increasingly evident is that you are calling Kate McCann's book a work of fiction without offering any evidence to show us why you actually believe that.
Your inability to provide a single example of a lie in the book is what is pathetic, because even without such you are continuing to lie about the book.
Your post above highlights perfectly the anti McCann stance. It is a very bitter and rather twisted post in fact.
You have no proof of your claims but still think it perfectly reasonable to post extremely abusive claims about the McCanns, the parents who are still hoping one day to be re-united with their missing daugther, Madeleine.
Your post is pure libel and I hope that the adimin of this forum realise that and deal with it.
And I repeat it is wholly significant in my view that Joana Morais, that staunch Amaral fan told us all that Sofia Leal was ironically writing such a letter.
Well prove the entire contents of the book are true.
Meanwhile, we have the classic LIE in the book that only the mccanns searched for Madeleine, NEVER REMOVED.
Abusive claims, my derriere.
This pair ,left their children unprotected and open to any danger because of their arrogant stupidity.
You can argue til the end of time, but that won't change the truth of what they are...............
I suggest you get real and put the blame where it belongs for Madeleine's disappearance, HER PARENTS.
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It is not abandoning a child to allow an adult to go to hospital for a scheduled appointment for surgery on the hand. It is reneging on your professional duties to pretend that this is some kind of urgent request when you knew about it the night before, so that a whole group of people have their day disrupted so that you can be at the hospital before a small piece of surgery. Could the lawyer not have comforted the poor adult child before he or she left for the hospital?
It is not actually correct to state that the McCanns abandoned their child either. As that crime was dismissed by the Portuguese court it is libel to state that openly in the way you have done.
Your rather irrelevant comment about boarding schools really does you no favours. The lawyer's child is an adult.
For goodness' sake. The judge checked the request and admitted it was valid. Stop stamping your foot and crying "unfair" like a petulant schoolgirl.
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Are you really - REALLY - unable to see what is ironic in Sofia Leal's letter? Honestly? You are choosing an interpretation that suits your agenda and entirely missing the point, if that's so @)(++(*
I choose the interpretation which fits the dictionary definition of the word "ironically". Do you believe there is another interpretation? If so. please do specify what it might be.
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For goodness' sake. The judge checked the request and admitted it was valid. Stop stamping your foot and crying "unfair" like a petulant schoolgirl.
Valid in law maybe.
Necessary is an entirely different matter.
And whether it was a truly professional action...?
There is nothing petulant about expressing a view that the lawyer could perfectly have easily spoken to his adult child before setting off to the court before doing the work he was supposed to be doing. I am perfectly entitles to express that opinion without you describing me abusively as having been stamping my feet about it.
What is petulant is the posting of Carlymichelle about her need for mummy and daddy to be ever present at the age of 34 and her presumption that the rest of the world should think the same.
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There is nothing petulant about expressing a view that the lawyer could perfectly have easily spoken to his adult child before setting off to the court before doing the work he was supposed to be doing. I am perfectly entitles to express that opinion without you describing me abusively as having been stamping my feet about it.
Aha. yes, of course. Not libellous to be describing a lawyer as unprofessional then?
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Picking flies out of the way the McCann's dress and look, is a bit silly, if you compare them with this.
Here's an example of Amaral on a day out, with his daughter. I have cut the child off, for her privacy!
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn315/itsonlyme_08/Gonc%20crap/Goncy.jpg)
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That's his court outfit isn't it?
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That's his court outfit isn't it?
No, he had black pumps or shoes on, that day, not brown. @)(++(*
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Why do you McCann supporters persist in irrelevancies? What has his dress sense got to do with this thread? Do you see anyone on this thread mentioning the McCanns' dress sense apart from one of your own?
As to the accusation I was "cherry picking" photos... bear in mind that the McCanns, according to themselves, are suffering permanent depression and/or anxiety and/or hemorrhoids or god knows what else because of Amaral. Why should they ever be in a position to be photographed smiling?
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Aha. yes, of course. Not libellous to be describing a lawyer as unprofessional then?
Not at all as the evidence for that is clear. You are correct.
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Why do you McCann supporters persist in irrelevancies? What has his dress sense got to do with this thread? Do you see anyone on this thread mentioning the McCanns' dress sense apart from one of your own?
As to the accusation I was "cherry picking" photos... bear in mind that the McCanns, according to themselves, are suffering permanent depression and/or anxiety and/or hemorrhoids or god knows what else because of Amaral. Why should they ever be in a position to be photographed smiling?
Dear, dear. Such petulance. Have you not read the reams of pages of anti McCann garbage about the dress sense of the McCanns.
And on looking back I see it was you who started all this silly gossip with your cherry-picked photos trying to gossip about whether Kate should never ever smile again in her life or some such inanity. Do you seriously believe that any living person, no matter what the circumstances of their past, should be condemned to a life in which they cannot ever smile again? Do you think the McCanns would be benefiting their twins by being permanently morose?
And could you please offer up the relevant quotes where the McCanns have ever said as you rather nastily claim, that they"are suffering permanent depression and/or anxiety and/or hemorrhoids or god knows what else"? Until you do show us those quotes we are entitled to presume that is just nasty gossip from you.
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Dear, dear. Such petulance. Have you not read the reams of pages of anti McCann garbage about the dress sense of the McCanns.
And on looking back I see it was you who started all this silly gossip with your cherry-picked photos trying to gossip about whether Kate should never ever smile again in her life or some such inanity.
I'm not the one stamping my ruby slipper and bawling "unfair! Mum! Tell him!" or words to that effect.
No, I've read nothing about the McCanns' dress sense. Perhaps you could point out where it is mentioned on this thread?
Try to stay calm. You're repeating "gossip" quite a lot whilst you're ranting. I'm just sticking to the facts. Permanent depression and anxiety doesn't allow people to smile, oddly enough.
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they clearly are damaged people it shows by their menacing tone about GA layers child it doesnt matyter how old someones child is if they are adult or not they are still that persons child at least they didnt abandon the child like the mcanns no matter how old the person is as i say i wonder if some pros were sent away as a child they are cold hearted
Sorry but... @)(++(* @)(++(* at both your silly posts.
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Why should they ever be in a position to be photographed smiling?
They do have other children, do you think it's good for them if they don't ever see their parents smiling?
People who suffer depression/anxiety aren't allowed to smile?
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I'm not the one stamping my ruby slipper and bawling "unfair! Mum! Tell him!" or words to that effect.
No, I've read nothing about the McCanns' dress sense. Perhaps you could point out where it is mentioned on this thread?
Try to stay calm. You're repeating "gossip" quite a lot whilst you're ranting. I'm just sticking to the facts. Permanent depression and anxiety doesn't allow people to smile, oddly enough.
I have posted no such quote (and nothing similar to that quote) as you wrongly claim.
Ah so I am ranting and you are posting facts when you claim " that the McCanns, according to themselves, are suffering permanent depression and/or anxiety and/or hemorrhoids or god knows what else "?
You really are showing yourself up when you claim such things. Do you not see that?
Please provide the relevant quotes if you wish to be taken seriously and not simply be seen to be being petulant.
And I suggest you are the one who needs to read and post more calmly. Then you would not get confused so much. As in the assertion that I have posted what you mistakenly claim I have posted above and in your assertion that I claimed dress sense had been mentioned previously on this thread.
Calm, down dear and read more carefully. Then you won't make such wrong-headed claims.
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Why should they ever be in a position to be photographed smiling?
They do have other children, do you think it's good for them if they don't ever see their parents smiling?
People who suffer depression/anxiety aren't allowed to smile?
Why indeed? Although I think you've made an error in your post there 8(0(*
Yeah, yeah. My point is that they seem to be entirely functional people. A long way from the depressed anxious people they claim to be.
Why did they request - or demand - the removal of the "happy smiley faces" photo from Amsterdam from associated reports? If they are allowed to smile and laugh for whatever reason, why remove that photo? It's almost like some PR agency was advising them it didn't look good to be seen so happy when they were supposed to be so anxious and depressed.
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Why should they ever be in a position to be photographed smiling?
They do have other children, do you think it's good for them if they don't ever see their parents smiling?
People who suffer depression/anxiety aren't allowed to smile?
Pretty pathetic isn't it.
Much like the one the [ censored word] pass around of the couple smiling outside the Church and bitch bitch bitch about it. When in fact someone had accidentally let go of balloons and the whole crowd was smiling about it.
I'm pretty sure had the McCanns looked grim faced at the time the [ censored word] would have an even bigger bitchfest about the how those darned McCanns are stuck up and aren't appreciative of supporters.
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...
Yeah, yeah. My point is that they seem to be entirely functional people. A long way from the depressed anxious people they claim to be.
Why did they request - or demand - the removal of the "happy smiley faces" photo from Amsterdam from associated reports? If they are allowed to smile and laugh for whatever reason, why remove that photo? It's almost like some PR agency was advising them it didn't look good to be seen so happy when they were supposed to be so anxious and depressed.
Rather ironic that you should be pronouncing on the state of mind of this couple who you have never met and who you only know from snippets on the internet of their lives, while elsewhere on this forum posters are damming Mr Pike for his comments about the McCanns when he has professional qualifications relevant to those comments and has spent long periods with the McCanns.
Are you really claiming to be in a better position than him to comment on this couple's state of mind or are you just a typical know-it-all internet anti McCann who thinks he is so clever he can determine such matters over a few forum posts, a few cherry-picked photos and no actual interaction, conversation, or anything else that normally forms the basis of such judgements?
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I have posted no such quote (and nothing similar to that quote) as you wrongly claim.
Ah so I am ranting and you are posting facts when you claim " that the McCanns, according to themselves, are suffering permanent depression and/or anxiety and/or hemorrhoids or god knows what else "?
You really are showing yourself up when you claim such things. Do you not see that?
Please provide the relevant quotes if you wish to be taken seriously and not simply be seen to be being petulant.
OK, on the basis that you're obviously hard of understanding I shall explain things. Sorry I can't show you fingerpuppets or something to help you further, you'll just have to try and muddle through.
The McCanns, via their libel claim and the Daily Mirror claimed that Amaral's book caused the parents “'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear.” Kate McCann is, in addition, “'steeped in a deep and serious depression.” And "totally destroyed from a moral, social, ethical, emotional and family point of view, beyond the pain that the absence of their eldest daughter causes them"."
Yes, I admit that I added in the bit about hemorrhoids for comic effect to exaggerate my feelings about the stupidity and unprovability of their claim and that they seem to want to hold Amaral responsible for all the ills that befall them. That you are unable to appreciate this is not my problem. Deal with it.
As to your other suggestions about me showing myself up and being petulant, you're welcome to those opinions. I'll try and sleep tonight but I'm afraid your words may have caused me anxiety and depression. And maybe hemorrhoids too, so it may be tough.
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Rather ironic that you should be pronouncing on the state of mind of this couple who you have never met and who you only know from snippets on the internet of their lives, while elsewhere on this forum posters are damming Mr Pike for his comments about the McCanns when he has professional qualifications relevant to those comments and has spent long periods with the McCanns.
Are you really claiming to be in a better position than him to comment on this couple's state of mind or are you just a typical know-it-all internet anti McCann who thinks he is so clever he can determine such matters over a few forum posts, a few cherry-picked photos and no actual interaction, conversation, or anything else that normally form the basis of such judgements?
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Sorry, that's priceless. You're really trying to claim that Pike (stupid boy) did a good job? @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Oh my sides. I've seen the McCanns out (well, Kate anyway) at a shopping centre in Leicester before. She looked pretty happy to me that day too. Although she was out with just what I assume was a friend and not inconvenienced by childcare of her twins so that may explain it. I know I failed in my duty but I completely failed to stop her and abuse her. I'm such a disgrace to [ censored word] everywhere. 8(8-))
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OK, on the basis that you're obviously hard of understanding I shall explain things. Sorry I can't show you fingerpuppets or something to help you further, you'll just have to try and muddle through.
The McCanns, via their libel claim and the Daily Mirror claimed that Amaral's book caused the parents “'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear.” Kate McCann is, in addition, “'steeped in a deep and serious depression.” And "totally destroyed from a moral, social, ethical, emotional and family point of view, beyond the pain that the absence of their eldest daughter causes them"."
Yes, I admit that I added in the bit about hemorrhoids for comic effect to exaggerate my feelings about the stupidity and unprovability of their claim and that they seem to want to hold Amaral responsible for all the ills that befall them. That you are unable to appreciate this is not my problem. Deal with it.
As to your other suggestions about me showing myself up and being petulant, you're welcome to those opinions. I'll try and sleep tonight but I'm afraid your words may have caused me anxiety and depression. And maybe hemorrhoids too, so it may be tough.
Your petulance is shining through that post once again especially in that last paragraph where you seem to be claiming that my posting opinions which don't match your opinions but which are at least equally valid are causing you to lose sleep. If that is the case then I fear you are in need of medical help.
Comic effect is all well and good, but when taken as part of a post in which you are damming the McCanns for having the audacity to smile at any point in their lives, it really does not fit well.
And you still have not explained why you believe that people suffering anxiety and depression should never, at any point in their lives, smile. Nor have you explained why you cherry-picked those few examples of smiles from the tens of thousands of more serious (even, may I say it depressed) photos of the McCanns which exist?
You posted those photos here for a reason. You have not explained that reason.
Do you actually believe that this couple should never be allowed to smile again? Is that the reason you have shown us the photos or do you have some other reason?
Please explain your reasoning because it surely cannot be that you think a couple who are trying to maintain as normal a life as possible for their other children should simply never be allowed to smile again? Can it?
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No further questions, your honour. 8)-)))
-
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Sorry, that's priceless. You're really trying to claim that Pike (stupid boy) did a good job? @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Oh my sides. I've seen the McCanns out (well, Kate anyway) at a shopping centre in Leicester before. She looked pretty happy to me that day too. Although she was out with just what I assume was a friend and not inconvenienced by childcare of her twins so that may explain it. I know I failed in my duty but I completely failed to stop her and abuse her. I'm such a disgrace to [ censored word] everywhere. 8(8-))
Please point to any post I have made on this forum where I claim that Pike did a good job?#
You cannot because I have not. Your inability to read plain English does you a great disservice.
I did explain, quite correctly, that Pike has much more authority to be able to pronounce on the matters than you have.
In making this error in your reading you have completely swerved the question I posed to you about your own abilities in determining the mental state of the McCanns without expertise or contact with the couple. Instead you post more inanity.
And let's take this new scenario you present as truthful for a moment. You claim now that you have had an encounter with Kate McCann. Well there you go! That surely is all anyone needs before pronouncing on the mental state of another person, that they spotted them out shopping.
You really are a most wonderfully informed person about the case. Not only have you now claimed to have actually spotted Kate McCann while out shopping but you have also got not one but two PJ bods (who if I am not mistaken you called LP bods in the past) secretly informing you of all the details of the case.
We can all see that it is this in-depth knowledge of the case which is clearly sustaining your presumptive guesswork about the state of mind of the couple whose child is missing and who you are posting about here for comic effect.
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No further questions, your honour. 8)-)))
Yet more of that pathetic comic effect I presume?
You really are not helping the anti McCann cause with such posts when it is clear that you are simply avoiding the question I posed to you in the post above it.
And I don't believe you have explained why you think Joana Morais was correct to state that Sofia Leal was writing ironically to Kate McCann.
You do seem to swerve questions when they don't suit you, don't you?
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Please point to any post I have made on this forum where I claim that Pike did a good job?#
You cannot because I have not. Your inability to read plain English does you a great disservice.
I did explain, quite correctly, that Pike has much more authority to be able to pronounce on the matters than you have.
In making this error in your reading you have completely swerved the question I posed to you about your own abilities in determining the mental state of the McCanns without expertise or contact with the couple. Instead you post more inanity.
And let's take this new scenario you present as truthful for a moment. You claim now that you have had an encounter with Kate McCann. Well there you go! That surely is all anyone needs before pronouncing on the mental state of another person, that they spotted them out shopping.
You really are a most wonderfully informed person about the case. Not only have you now claimed to have actually spotted Kate McCann while out shopping but you have also got not one but two PJ bods (who if I am not mistaken you called LP bods in the past) secretly informing you of all the details of the case.
We can all see that it is this in-depth knowledge of the case which is clearly sustaining your presumptive guesswork about the state of mind of the couple whose child is missing and who you are posting about here for comic effect.
Whoa princess. Timeout. I never once claimed my friends were pj! You made that mistaken assumption and I already pointed that out once! You made the same mistake on the stm forum, by the way.
When I saw km out shopping with a mate she was happily chatting and laughing. She didn't look devastated, anxious or depressed to me. Maybe pike (stupid boy) would have been able to see the inner pain that a mere mortal like me failed to spot. >@@(*&)
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Yet more of that pathetic comic effect I presume?
You really are not helping the anti McCann cause with such posts when it is clear that you are simply avoiding the question I posed to you in the post above it.
And I don't believe you have explained why you think Joana Morais was correct to state that Sofia Leal was writing ironically to Kate McCann.
You do seem to swerve questions when they don't suit you, don't you?
Sorry, I'm too busy laughing at you to answer questions at the moment. Maybe later @)(++(* @)(++(*
-
Your petulance is shining through that post once again especially in that last paragraph where you seem to be claiming that my posting opinions which don't match your opinions but which are at least equally valid are causing you to lose sleep. If that is the case then I fear you are in need of medical help.
Comic effect is all well and good, but when taken as part of a post in which you are damming the McCanns for having the audacity to smile at any point in their lives, it really does not fit well.
And you still have not explained why you believe that people suffering anxiety and depression should never, at any point in their lives, smile. Nor have you explained why you cherry-picked those few examples of smiles from the tens of thousands of more serious (even, may I say it depressed) photos of the McCanns which exist?
You posted those photos here for a reason. You have not explained that reason.
Do you actually believe that this couple should never be allowed to smile again? Is that the reason you have shown us the photos or do you have some other reason?
Please explain your reasoning because it surely cannot be that you think a couple who are trying to maintain as normal a life as possible for their other children should simply never be allowed to smile again? Can it?
8@??)( 8@??)(
Excellent post.
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Sorry, I'm too busy laughing at you to answer questions at the moment. Maybe later @)(++(* @)(++(*
Yet more of that "comic effect" used to swerve questions. It is becoming a very tedious and rather obvious ploy now.
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Whoa princess. Timeout. I never once claimed my friends were pj! You made that mistaken assumption and I already pointed that out once! You made the same mistake on the stm forum, by the way.
When I saw km out shopping with a mate she was happily chatting and laughing. She didn't look devastated, anxious or depressed to me. Maybe pike (stupid boy) would have been able to see the inner pain that a mere mortal like me failed to spot. >@@(*&)
Patronising comments such as that from you about me being a princess are a form of abuse as is your attempt to bring in comments (which you seem to think were made by me) on other forums.
As for your friends in Portugal who morphed from their positions in Leicester, whether PJ or GNR or simply roadsweepers working for the local council, they don't make you an expert on this case,
Nor for that matter does your claiming to have seen Kate McCann once while out shopping.
What is perfectly clear is that you have not answered any of the questions I have posed to you about your claiming to be able to pronounce on the mental state of a person who you have had no contact with and about your other claims made today.
So instead of posting patronising words, anecdotes about seeing someone out shopping and other inanities for "comic effect" it would be appreciated if you could address the actual issues.
I still do not see how anyone can defend the public letter which Leal sent to Kate McCann. It reeks of jealousy about higher salaries, and makes a laughig stock of the now disgraced ex-detective when she refers to him being a scoundrel (presumably referring to his bedroom exploits).
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Patronising comments such as that from you about me being a princess are a form of abuse as is your attempt to bring in comments (which you seem to think were made by me) on other forums.
As for your friends in Portugal who morphed from their positions in Leicester, whether PJ or GNR or simply roadsweepers working for the local council, they don't make you an expert on this case,
Nor for that matter does your claiming to have seen Kate McCann once while out shopping.
What is perfectly clear is that you have not answered any of the questions I have posed to you about your claiming to be able to pronounce on the mental state of a person who you have had no contact with and about your other claims made today.
So instead of posting patronising words, anecdotes about seeing someone out shopping and other inanities for "comic effect" it would be appreciated if you could address the actual issues.
Gosh. Didn't realise I was on trial. My friends haven't morphed into anything you nitwit. You seem to think they're Portuguese for some unfathomable reason!
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@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Sorry, that's priceless. You're really trying to claim that Pike (stupid boy) did a good job? @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Oh my sides. I've seen the McCanns out (well, Kate anyway) at a shopping centre in Leicester before. She looked pretty happy to me that day too. Although she was out with just what I assume was a friend and not inconvenienced by childcare of her twins so that may explain it. I know I failed in my duty but I completely failed to stop her and abuse her. I'm such a disgrace to [ censored word] everywhere. 8(8-))
dont you love their you have never me tthe mcanns speech so predictable lol
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dont you love their you have never me tthe mcanns speech so predictable lol
Is that Australian slang? Or is it meant to represent English?
If you translate it into proper English then people may understand it.
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Gosh. Didn't realise I was on trial. My friends haven't morphed into anything you nitwit. You seem to think they're Portuguese for some unfathomable reason!
Do you get off on being abusive as its such an important part of your posting style.
Morphed or otherwise you still have not answered the questions have you?
Swerving like mad to answer.
And what is this nonsense from you about you being on trial?
Forums are founded on questions, answers opinions and such like.
Just because you can't see that does not mean it isn't so!
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Please point to any post I have made on this forum where I claim that Pike did a good job?#
You cannot because I have not. Your inability to read plain English does you a great disservice.
I did explain, quite correctly, that Pike has much more authority to be able to pronounce on the matters than you have.
In making this error in your reading you have completely swerved the question I posed to you about your own abilities in determining the mental state of the McCanns without expertise or contact with the couple. Instead you post more inanity.
Saying that Alan Pike has 'more authority' to pronounce on matters of psychiatric illness ( of which suicidal depression is one ) than a forum member here is a bit like saying a vet has more authority to perform surgery on a human than a butcher
Alan Pike has no background in medicine at all, let alone the specialist medical field of psychiatric illness
When Kate McCann told him she was having suicidal thoughts he was not qualified to evaluate whether she presented an actual suicide risk ... yet that is what he did, according to his testimony ... he arbitrarily ( for he believes Kate did not discuss her suicidal thoughts with anyone else ) came to the conclusion that she she would not actually 'do it'
Pike did NOT, and does not have the authority to pronounce on such matters
He is not a mental health professional .... not even an 'actual' psychologist ... just a self-proclaimed 'crisis councellor'
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Do you get off on being abusive as its such an important part of your posting style.
Morphed or otherwise you still have not answered the questions have you?
Swerving like mad to answer.
And what is this nonsense from you about you being on trial?
Forums are founded on questions, answers opinions and such like.
Just because you can't see that does not mean it isn't so!
Its a ploy, to get rid of you Gilet. Or make you say something that will get you banned. Edwards is known for it. Amazon must have lost its fun eliment. Ignore!
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Patronising comments such as that from you about me being a princess are a form of abuse as is your attempt to bring in comments (which you seem to think were made by me) on other forums.
As for your friends in Portugal who morphed from their positions in Leicester, whether PJ or GNR or simply roadsweepers working for the local council, they don't make you an expert on this case,
Nor for that matter does your claiming to have seen Kate McCann once while out shopping.
What is perfectly clear is that you have not answered any of the questions I have posed to you about your claiming to be able to pronounce on the mental state of a person who you have had no contact with and about your other claims made today.
So instead of posting patronising words, anecdotes about seeing someone out shopping and other inanities for "comic effect" it would be appreciated if you could address the actual issues.
I still do not see how anyone can defend the public letter which Leal sent to Kate McCann. It reeks of jealousy about higher salaries, and makes a laughig stock of the now disgraced ex-detective when she refers to him being a scoundrel (presumably referring to his bedroom exploits).
How, what and why I post is nothing to do with you. If admin/mods have a problem, they will let me know. You know, I assume, where the "report" button is, right? It appears from my exchanges with you today (half of which were whilst I was out walking the dog) that you're struggling with the ability to understand certain things. In evidence I give your failure to understand the meaning of the word "petulant", your utter and complete misreading of Joana Morais's post "Open Letter: Gonçalo Amaral's Wife reacts Ironically to Kate's Attack" (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/09/open-letter-gonalo-amaral-wife-reacts.html (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/09/open-letter-gonalo-amaral-wife-reacts.html)) in which you have failed to spot the irony Joana is referring to in general terms and SPECIFICALLY the bit where you think she is being jealous about salaries! and lastly your failure to pick up on numerous turns of phrase which you've interpreted literally and in between that you've been ranting and tantruming like a tired out toddler. As to you not being the person who posted on STM with the same mistake about my friends/// yeah, course you're not T2, course not 8(0(* I frankly don't give a damn, but I don't even see why you'd bother denying it.
Anyhow, have lost track of all your demands if you really want to carry on having sand kicked in your metaphorical face, please feel free to relist them and I'll get back to you if I'm interested enough.
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Its a ploy, to get rid of you Gilet. Or make you say something that will get you banned. Edwards is known for it. Amazon must have lost its fun eliment. Ignore!
When, precisely, did I last post on Amazon. Just out of interest, you know. If tr... I mean gilet wants to get banned then it's entirely his lookout.
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Its a ploy, to get rid of you Gilet. Or make you say something that will get you banned. Edwards is known for it. Amazon must have lost its fun eliment. Ignore!
@)(++(*
If you think CE would waste his/her precious time and energy doing any such petty thing, then, frankly, you are an extremely bad judge of character, and obviously of many other things....
@)(++(*
Not projecting were you? Perchance?
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I still do not see how anyone can defend the public letter which Leal sent to Kate McCann[/b]. It reeks of jealousy about higher salaries, and makes a laughig stock of the now disgraced ex-detective when she refers to him being a scoundrel (presumably referring to his bedroom exploits).
Well thats YOUR problem, its called right of reply! To public abuse! And slander.Sofia Leal had the right to reply likewise in PUBLIC with examples to refute the accusations! YOU would have done exact same and MORE IF youre honest.
AS for jealousy of higher salries, cant you read or comprehend? Amaral did not go for promotion/higher salary to sit in some swanky office.....AS A CHOICE..... wanted to remain doing his on the ground job! DOH
8-)(--)
As for any sexual references, her prerogrative, just as Kate Mccann had to fill our eardrums or eyeballs rather with details of how and why she couldnt make love to Gerry! Puke! Serialised in the SUN as part of their half a millin quid payment for it! You know the newspaper group she complained about at Leveson that made her feel mentally raped! By printing her diary!
Hypocrite!
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This is a spanking good thread, well worth bringing back.
Open letter to Mrs Kate Healy
Dear Madam,
You will forgive my boldness, but after I read your comment (in an interview to Expresso newspaper) concerning Gonçalo Amaral, my husband and the father of my daughters, I cannot avoid sending you these words of gratefulness. For many years, I have been trying to make myself heard in this sentiment that unites us both: "…as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace." Look at it closely:
a) Professionally
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
But if it was only the fact that he was subject to the weather, it wouldn't be serious, as our climate is not too bad, as you know. The problem is that this dedication to the cause has earned him a non promotion in his career. Indeed, I will explain this to you, even because this case happened when the searches for your daughter were under way. My husband applied to the category of Superior Coordinator, and in between drug apprehensions, sequestrations and homicides, he somehow managed to produce a thesis about drug trafficking by sea, which he defended in Lisbon, in front of a Jury that congratulated him. Full of hope, Gonçalo Amaral returns to the Algarve and awaits the result. To his surprise, he was passed over by other colleagues (real coordinators, truth be told), because he had not been able to score points in the "professional formation" parameter. That's right, Mrs Kate, my husband spent his life working, involved in complex investigations, he was the man who apprehended the highest volumes of drugs in Portugal, but given the fact that he had no time to go to Lisbon to parade himself up and down the corridors of the PJ's Institute, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!
- As you probably know, even because you seem like a very well informed person to me, my husband's salary was less than 1.5 times the lowest salary in your country. But as a wife, as a mother and as a Portuguese citizen, I can't complain, because Gonçalo Amaral's salary was equal to 4.5 times the lowest salary in Portugal. But pay attention to the following, which is an example of what I'm going to explain next: At some point, an individual shoots a member of the PSP [urban police] and flees into neighbouring Spain. A PJ team follows him, including my husband. They stayed there for over two weeks. Now at that time, the international expense coverage was around 100 euros. As you can easily imagine, it's not possible to sleep and eat in Spain with this amount of money, much less shortly before Christmas and taking into account that the value will only be paid at around Easter time (if one's lucky). But Gonçalo Amaral never refused, not even for one day, to search for the escaped murderer, relaying the expenses onto our family accounts. And this is just one example among many. At some point in time, I suggested that we should create a fund or something similar to deal with these extraordinary expenses, but he never listened to me. You see, we also have mortgages to pay around here… A disgrace, Mrs Kate, a disgrace!
b) As a person, his behaviour has also been a disgrace, because to begin with we could never distinguish that he even had a personal life, due to the manner in which he dealt with the profession that he embraced. But if my good friend Mrs Kate allows me, I can offer you some examples:
- 5 years ago, a child named Joana "disappeared". Her mother, just like you, Mrs Kate, tried to project the case into the media, but she didn't make it any further than SIC…
Eight days later, came the confessions and the evidence: during an incestuous act between mother and uncle, the child was beaten, then dismembered and her body dumped who knows where. Mother and uncle went to jail, in a process that was coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral and which earned them almost 20 years in jail, each. But let us go a bit back in time. The child died on the 12th of September. On Christmas eve, our family was reunited for prayer, when my husband asked me to prepare a bag with some food and warm clothes, because he had not carried out his Christmas act of penance. Can you, Mrs Kate, imagine where Gonçalo Amaral went on that Christmas night under heavy rain and thunder? He went to the Olhão Prison, where João Cipriano, Joana's uncle, a confessed murderer and a clinically diagnosed psychopath, is detained. According to my husband, to simply offer an alimony to some beggar was not a sacrifice to him. The fact that he embraced and shared his Christmas meal with João Cipriano was the sacrifice that he offered to God, in memory of Joana. Is this not a disgrace? You should also know that every year, on the 12th of September, my husband has a mass celebrated in memory of Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro. He says that nobody will ever remember the poor little girl again. Right, but they remember to unjustly accuse him of actions and crimes that he never committed. Isn't this a disgrace, Mrs Kate?
- There is a last episode that I will report to you, one that I still find hard to talk about. Last year, in May, we started to move our family to Portimão. My husband was supposed to enjoy a holiday period starting on the day after your daughter's disappearance. "For obvious reasons" that didn't happen. I started on a new job, looked for a house, moved house, and tried to integrate our daughters in new schools and new routines. All of this I did alone, without any help from my husband, who for obvious reasons, was looking for your daughter, Mrs Kate. In October, on his birthday, a week after our daughters started school, Gonçalo Amaral was dismissed and returned to Faro. This was supposed to be the time of the family's reunion and it turned out to be another separation. Isn't this a disgrace? Our daughters never managed to understand, and we never managed to explain to them what obvious reasons were those that rewarded in this manner a father who left his own daughters to go looking for a child that he had never met and whose parents had neglected her. It was a pity that my dear friend Mrs Kate was not around anymore at that date, because you could have been very helpful to me in explaining these "obvious reasons" that led to their father's dismissal, to our daughters.
Finally, I can only report to you that intimately, Gonçalo Amaral is precisely what the latinos are famed for: shameless, as my pudency does not allow me to write any further.
I ask you, my good friend, to forgive these confidences from a wife and mother, but I'm certain that you will understand. I finish this letter asking you to send your mother my most sincere praises. She sounded so sincere to me, when during an interview she referred that she felt like slapping the face of the person who left her grandchildren alone. She spoke so openly that she sounded like a genuine Portuguese grandmother…
My dear friend Mrs Kate, without wishing to bother you any further, I would like to request one last favour from you: now that you have started to tell some truths, please continue, and let the world hear the truth that it has been waiting for.
Best regards,
Sofia Leal
Wife and Mother of the Daughters of Gonçalo Amaral
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Angelo, why have you highlighted the phrase: " let the world hear the truth that it has been waiting for"? What truths do you believe Kate has yet to reveal?
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This is a spanking good thread, well worth bringing back.
Open letter to Mrs Kate Healy
Dear Madam,
You will forgive my boldness, but after I read your comment (in an interview to Expresso newspaper) concerning Gonçalo Amaral, my husband and the father of my daughters, I cannot avoid sending you these words of gratefulness. For many years, I have been trying to make myself heard in this sentiment that unites us both: "…as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace." Look at it closely:
a) Professionally
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
But if it was only the fact that he was subject to the weather, it wouldn't be serious, as our climate is not too bad, as you know. The problem is that this dedication to the cause has earned him a non promotion in his career. Indeed, I will explain this to you, even because this case happened when the searches for your daughter were under way. My husband applied to the category of Superior Coordinator, and in between drug apprehensions, sequestrations and homicides, he somehow managed to produce a thesis about drug trafficking by sea, which he defended in Lisbon, in front of a Jury that congratulated him. Full of hope, Gonçalo Amaral returns to the Algarve and awaits the result. To his surprise, he was passed over by other colleagues (real coordinators, truth be told), because he had not been able to score points in the "professional formation" parameter. That's right, Mrs Kate, my husband spent his life working, involved in complex investigations, he was the man who apprehended the highest volumes of drugs in Portugal, but given the fact that he had no time to go to Lisbon to parade himself up and down the corridors of the PJ's Institute, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!
- As you probably know, even because you seem like a very well informed person to me, my husband's salary was less than 1.5 times the lowest salary in your country. But as a wife, as a mother and as a Portuguese citizen, I can't complain, because Gonçalo Amaral's salary was equal to 4.5 times the lowest salary in Portugal. But pay attention to the following, which is an example of what I'm going to explain next: At some point, an individual shoots a member of the PSP [urban police] and flees into neighbouring Spain. A PJ team follows him, including my husband. They stayed there for over two weeks. Now at that time, the international expense coverage was around 100 euros. As you can easily imagine, it's not possible to sleep and eat in Spain with this amount of money, much less shortly before Christmas and taking into account that the value will only be paid at around Easter time (if one's lucky). But Gonçalo Amaral never refused, not even for one day, to search for the escaped murderer, relaying the expenses onto our family accounts. And this is just one example among many. At some point in time, I suggested that we should create a fund or something similar to deal with these extraordinary expenses, but he never listened to me. You see, we also have mortgages to pay around here… A disgrace, Mrs Kate, a disgrace!
b) As a person, his behaviour has also been a disgrace, because to begin with we could never distinguish that he even had a personal life, due to the manner in which he dealt with the profession that he embraced. But if my good friend Mrs Kate allows me, I can offer you some examples:
- 5 years ago, a child named Joana "disappeared". Her mother, just like you, Mrs Kate, tried to project the case into the media, but she didn't make it any further than SIC…
Eight days later, came the confessions and the evidence: during an incestuous act between mother and uncle, the child was beaten, then dismembered and her body dumped who knows where. Mother and uncle went to jail, in a process that was coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral and which earned them almost 20 years in jail, each. But let us go a bit back in time. The child died on the 12th of September. On Christmas eve, our family was reunited for prayer, when my husband asked me to prepare a bag with some food and warm clothes, because he had not carried out his Christmas act of penance. Can you, Mrs Kate, imagine where Gonçalo Amaral went on that Christmas night under heavy rain and thunder? He went to the Olhão Prison, where João Cipriano, Joana's uncle, a confessed murderer and a clinically diagnosed psychopath, is detained. According to my husband, to simply offer an alimony to some beggar was not a sacrifice to him. The fact that he embraced and shared his Christmas meal with João Cipriano was the sacrifice that he offered to God, in memory of Joana. Is this not a disgrace? You should also know that every year, on the 12th of September, my husband has a mass celebrated in memory of Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro. He says that nobody will ever remember the poor little girl again. Right, but they remember to unjustly accuse him of actions and crimes that he never committed. Isn't this a disgrace, Mrs Kate?
- There is a last episode that I will report to you, one that I still find hard to talk about. Last year, in May, we started to move our family to Portimão. My husband was supposed to enjoy a holiday period starting on the day after your daughter's disappearance. "For obvious reasons" that didn't happen. I started on a new job, looked for a house, moved house, and tried to integrate our daughters in new schools and new routines. All of this I did alone, without any help from my husband, who for obvious reasons, was looking for your daughter, Mrs Kate. In October, on his birthday, a week after our daughters started school, Gonçalo Amaral was dismissed and returned to Faro. This was supposed to be the time of the family's reunion and it turned out to be another separation. Isn't this a disgrace? Our daughters never managed to understand, and we never managed to explain to them what obvious reasons were those that rewarded in this manner a father who left his own daughters to go looking for a child that he had never met and whose parents had neglected her. It was a pity that my dear friend Mrs Kate was not around anymore at that date, because you could have been very helpful to me in explaining these "obvious reasons" that led to their father's dismissal, to our daughters.
Finally, I can only report to you that intimately, Gonçalo Amaral is precisely what the latinos are famed for: shameless, as my pudency does not allow me to write any further.
I ask you, my good friend, to forgive these confidences from a wife and mother, but I'm certain that you will understand. I finish this letter asking you to send your mother my most sincere praises. She sounded so sincere to me, when during an interview she referred that she felt like slapping the face of the person who left her grandchildren alone. She spoke so openly that she sounded like a genuine Portuguese grandmother…
My dear friend Mrs Kate, without wishing to bother you any further, I would like to request one last favour from you: now that you have started to tell some truths, please continue, and let the world hear the truth that it has been waiting for.
Best regards,
Sofia Leal
Wife and Mother of the Daughters of Gonçalo Amaral
perhaps she could ask her husband to tell the truth re cipriano falling down the stairs....which we know is a lie
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That letter has always sounded like sour grapes to me.
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That letter has always sounded like sour grapes to me.
Not very empathetic?
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Her attempt to paint her husband as some sort of Christ-like figure, underpaid, overworked, under-appreciated is really all rather cringe-worthy IMO. And it's all 'Mrs Kate's' fault too, somehow?!
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Not very empathetic?
No, her letter is not remotely empathetic you're right.
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Eh, he was a Police detective wasn't he? don't Police detectives do all that as part of their job?
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Eh, he was a Police detective wasn't he? don't Police detectives do all that as part of their job?
Do what? Empathy or brutality ?
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Do what? Empathy or brutality ?
The work that poor Amaral had to do -
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
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The work that poor Amaral had to do -
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
I suspect she didn't know what he was up to most of the time. This was probably a good thing for him.
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Why does Leal keep referring to "Mrs Kate" as her "good" and "dear" friend?
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Her attempt to paint her husband as some sort of Christ-like figure, underpaid, overworked, under-appreciated is really all rather cringe-worthy IMO. And it's all 'Mrs Kate's' fault too, somehow?!
I can understand the motives behind Sofia's open letter extremely well considering what occurred.
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I can understand the motives behind Sofia's open letter extremely well considering what occurred.
what about her motives behind teh other letter she wrote....to the PJ condemning amaral as I recall
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yes here we are........
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal complaint to the police
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal
Excellency
Dr. Guilhermino Encarnação
Faro's Director of the Judiciary Police
Faro, 23/12/2007
Dear Sir:
As you know I'm the wife of the Coordinator of Criminal Investigation Gonçalo Amaral, with whom I have a daughter minor of age, with 4 years old, named Inês Sofia. You know also that Inês Sofia is living temporarily with her father
By the present way I want to expose to you:
1. As agreed with my husband, Inês Sofia should spend Christmas with me, since last Thrusday, day 20th. In that day, I contacted Gonçalo by mobile phone, and I was informed that Inês was with him, in trip to Coimbra and would only return on the following day;
2. On Friday 21th, I called again my husband, around lunch time. He informed me they were still on trip and at soon he arrive to Faro he will give me Inês. I waited until 8 PM without any news and Gonçalo never answered my phone calls. I then decided to go to a pub where I encountered Gonçalo and other colleagues of him consuming alcoholic beverages, Asking him by Inês Sofia, he answered, visible drunken, that “she was resting” and that he will give me the child the following day. Then he departed, driving an Audi car from the police.
3.On Saturday 22nd , and after many attempts, my husband finally answered the phone in the middle of the afternoon, and asked me to get Inês in home. I rushed to the residence, but nobody was there. After a while, Gonçalo appeared driving the same car, and again in a notorious state of drunkenness. Having asked him for Inês Sofia, he ordered me to go inside the house, where he insulted me and threatened me of death.
4. Today, Sunday 23th, and after numerous attempts, Gonçalo never answered his phone and he is not at home.
Unfortunately, this situation is not an unique and isolated act, and you Sir well know about other times in the past where I've also asked for your help. Once more, I ask again for your help, in order to guarantee Inês Sofia integrity, and in order to localize her.
Best Regards,
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal
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I can understand the motives behind Sofia's open letter extremely well considering what occurred.
The main motivation seems to be vindictiveness. Why does she keep referring to Kate McCann as her dear friend?
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what about her motives behind teh other letter she wrote....to the PJ condemning amaral as I recall
The poor woman appears to have had a terrible time of it what with one thing and another. Was it ever revealed if the 4-year-old child Inês Sofia, who was home resting according to Amaral, was being supervised while he was getting suitable oiled down the local PJ boozer?
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I suspect she didn't know what he was up to most of the time. This was probably a good thing for him.
As is the case with every police officer's partner. Amaral's behaviour was nothing unique I can assure you.
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The poor woman appears to have had a terrible time of it what with one thing and another. Was it ever revealed if the 4-year-old child Inês Sofia, who was home resting according to Amaral, was being supervised while he was getting suitable oiled dpwm the local PJ boozer?
so had amaral left the 4 yr old home alone