UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: gilet on October 03, 2013, 11:18:43 PM
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVrrP1TIYAADHoz.jpg)
(http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag1/gilet2013/600ADffffHoz_zps54151771.jpg)
Gerry and Kate McCann will assist in a Crimewatch Reconstruction of the case on October 14th.
-
Have they invited Amaral? Oh no he wasn't there was he? >@@(*&)
-
oh good took them nearly 7 years but hey it is what is 8@??)(
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVrrP1TIYAADHoz.jpg)
(http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag1/gilet2013/600ADffffHoz_zps54151771.jpg)
Gerry and Kate McCann will assist in a Crimewatch Reconstruction of the case on October 14th.
Now that will be interesting.
-
Have they invited Amaral? Oh no he wasn't there was he? >@@(*&)
I cannot imagine what the cop who never even spoke to them might have to contribute to a reconstruction.
Thankfully Scotland Yard are not merely concentrating on the parents as he was but having ruled out the parents have not simply given up and have discovered all those leads that Amaral and his team clearly missed.
-
I cannot imagine what the cop who never even spoke to them might have to contribute to a reconstruction.
Thankfully Scotland Yard are not merely concentrating on the parents as he was but having ruled out the parents have not simply given up and have discovered all those leads that Amaral and his team clearly missed.
Unless they lead to finding Madeleine or what happened to her I'm afraid these 'leads' mean absolutely nothing.
Aren't you just a little concerned gilet that announcing these 'leads' to the public when they have not been fully investigated may put Madeleine, if she is still alive, in danger ?
-
As this is in the Daily Fail I won't build my hopes up too high.
Still, it would be great news if progress was being made.
N
-
I cannot imagine what the cop who never even spoke to them might have to contribute to a reconstruction.
Thankfully Scotland Yard are not merely concentrating on the parents as he was but having ruled out the parents have not simply given up and have discovered all those leads that Amaral and his team clearly missed.
And all the detectives 8(0(*
-
Unless they lead to finding Madeleine or what happened to her I'm afraid these 'leads' mean absolutely nothing.
Aren't you just a little concerned gilet that announcing these 'leads' to the public when they have not been fully investigated may put Madeleine, if she is still alive, in danger ?
Not at all. Because unlike many anti McCanns I retain some faith in the officers of Scotland Yard and I believe they know what they are doing. Announcing these leads and exposing them on Crimewatch will be something they have considered very carefully.
And I am not aware that the kind of question you are using here has been used by you or anyone else for that matter in regard to other Crimewatch reconstructions. Are you seriously suggesting that programme is dangerous or is that just an anti McCann kneejerk response to this announcement?
-
And all the detectives 8(0(*
Yes, all those other detectives Amaral co-ordinated.
-
That sounds promising
That chap who gave an interview following his resignation as Chief Inspector in charge of th review ( can't think of his name sorry ) said that a 'forensic' examination of phone acitivity during those last crucial days was an inportant investigative lead
Three people eh ? ... and the Yard know who they are ?
-
I retain some faith in the officers of Scotland Yard and I believe they know what they are doing.
I think here everybody unless believes at least hopes !
-
That sounds promising
That chap who gave an interview following his resignation as Chief Inspector in charge of th review ( can't think of his name sorry ) said that a 'forensic' examination of phone acitivity during those last crucial days was an inportant investigative lead
Three people eh ? ... and the Yard know who they are ?
Ah the digs!
Only to be expected from those who cannot get past certain notions.
Of course the Yard know who they are. They have bothered to conduct a thorough and professional investigation, the kind that would have been beneficial to Madeleine 6 years ago.
-
I think here everybody unless believes at least hopes !
Is that a deliberately cryptic clue to something or is it supposed to be clear what you mean?
-
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
3/3 Met appeal for info expanded to Germany, Netherlands and Ireland. 41 people still of interest to Op Grange inc 15 from UK #findmadeleine
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
2/3 Met Police currently have 31 requests in various countries for info on phone usage in Praia da Luz at time of Madeleine's disappearance
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
1/3 New public appeal by Kate and Gerry McCann and Met Police on #BBCCrimewatch on Oct 14. Further appeals on Dutch+German TV #findmadeleine
-
The article states they have identified 3 more persons of interest and they are going through the phone records.
I would guess that they know who the phones were registered to 6 years ago - but being able to prove it was the registered owners who made the calls / texts is a different matter.
Really it's a typical Daily Fail article, not a lot of information in it really.
But - the Yard must be close to releasing something or the article would have been slapped with a D notice - so expect some news over the next 10 days or so.
N
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVrrP1TIYAADHoz.jpg)
(http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag1/gilet2013/600ADffffHoz_zps54151771.jpg)
Gerry and Kate McCann will assist in a Crimewatch Reconstruction of the case on October 14th.
Projecting in the future?
Another psychic?!
-
And I'm Saint Nicholas.
-
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
3/3 Met appeal for info expanded to Germany, Netherlands and Ireland. 41 people still of interest to Op Grange inc 15 from UK #findmadeleine
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
2/3 Met Police currently have 31 requests in various countries for info on phone usage in Praia da Luz at time of Madeleine's disappearance
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
1/3 New public appeal by Kate and Gerry McCann and Met Police on #BBCCrimewatch on Oct 14. Further appeals on Dutch+German TV #findmadeleine
New public appeal by Kate and Gerry McCann and Met Police on #BBCCrimewatch on Oct 14.
Very interesting 8(>((
-
Not at all. Because unlike many anti McCanns I retain some faith in the officers of Scotland Yard and I believe they know what they are doing. Announcing these leads and exposing them on Crimewatch will be something they have considered very carefully.
And I am not aware that the kind of question you are using here has been used by you or anyone else for that matter in regard to other Crimewatch reconstructions. Are you seriously suggesting that programme is dangerous or is that just an anti McCann kneejerk response to this announcement?
It's not the reconstruction I have a problem with, in fact I look forward to it. What I am concerned about is the constant revealing of new leads even before they have been fully explored. Have we ever seen such blatant endangerment of a presumed abductee before ? What are they achieving by announcing that phone records are being checked ? The public certainly can't help them with this task so why broadcast the current state of play when the only thing it will achieve is to tip off any alleged abductor that SY are on to them.
-
Is that a deliberately cryptic clue to something or is it supposed to be clear what you mean?
It's perfectly clear to me.
-
I think that NSY are under quite a bit of pressure to come up with results - after all it costs a lot of money to keep 30 odd detectives working on a case.
Or it could just be spin to divert attention away from Lisbon - who knows?
Personally I hope they have something concrete to pursue, but it just doesn't carry much weight coming from the Daily Mail
N
-
I think that NSY are under quite a bit of pressure to come up with results - after all it costs a lot of money to keep 30 odd detectives working on a case.
Or it could just be spin to divert attention away from Lisbon - who knows?
Personally I hope they have something concrete to pursue, but it just doesn't carry much weight coming from the Daily Mail
N
Daily Mail?
-
The article states they have identified 3 more persons of interest and they are going through the phone records.
I would guess that they know who the phones were registered to 6 years ago - but being able to prove it was the registered owners who made the calls / texts is a different matter.
Really it's a typical Daily Fail article, not a lot of information in it really.
But - the Yard must be close to releasing something or the article would have been slapped with a D notice - so expect some news over the next 10 days or so.
N
Such cynicism from one so new to the forum!
This is the kind of information often released by forces in order to increase the viewing of important and potentially case-breaking Crimewatch reconstructions which they are involved in.
And you seem to be very much off target with your reference to this article coming from the paper you suggest by your rather nasty reference. That reference is usually reserved for the Daily Mail. Never mind, you might realise that after posting for a while. After all we don't expect anti McCanns to get even simple details right when they read things and you seem to be fitting the bill perfectly.
-
New public appeal by Kate and Gerry McCann and Met Police on #BBCCrimewatch on Oct 14.
Very interesting 8(>((
Absolutely.
-
I should apologise - it isn't the Daily Fail - it is of course the Express.
I just hope you can find it in your collective hearts to forgive me 8)><(
N
-
Such cynicism from one so new to the forum!
This is the kind of information often released by forces in order to increase the viewing of important and potentially case-breaking Crimewatch reconstructions which they are involved in.
And you seem to be very much off target with your reference to this article coming from the paper you suggest by your rather nasty reference. That reference is usually reserved for the Daily Mail. Never mind, you might realise that after posting for a while.
I have personally never seen such in depth information revealed by any investigating police force when the abductee's fate is still unknown. What cases do you know of where this has happened ?
-
Well, 195 clues, 38 potential poi, 12 witnesses, ....now 3 more for October 14th
Who has a calculator?
-
Madeleine McCann case: Police launch huge trawl to trace phones of people who were in Praia da Luz when she went missing in 2007
Paul Peachey
Friday 04 October 2013
Police are attempting to trace mobile phones linked to 31 countries to identify thousands of people who were in the Algarve town of Praia da Luz when Madeleine McCann went missing six years ago, Scotland Yard said.
The scale of the huge trawl emerged as police said that they had identified 41 people of interest, including 15 Britons, during an investigation by the country's biggest police force after an appeal by the family to Home Secretary Theresa May in 2011. The girl, then aged three went missing from a holiday apartment on May 3, 2007 as her parents Kate and Gerry dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
“What we're trying to do is to use every route available to us to identify as many of them as possible and the phone data is one route into that,” said Detective Chief Inspector (DCI) Andy Redwood, the senior investigating officer on the inquiry. “If you were in Praia da Luz at the time, you may get a routine phone call from the police.”
The girl's parents are to make a new television appeal in light of “fresh, substantive” material unearthed as part of a British police investigation. In the week Crimewatch airs, equivalent programmes made in Holland, Germany and possibly Ireland, are expected to be broadcast.
Detectives have issued 31 international letters of request to mostly European countries in relation to some of the persons of interest as well as accessing phone records. A large but “manageable” list of phone numbers identified as being present in Praia da Luz - though not necessarily used to make phone calls - has been drawn up by detectives with a “significant” number unattributed to any named person.
And significantly, police officers are now able to create a log showing calls being made at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. Mr Redwood said his team could never say for certain that it knew everybody who was in Praia da Luz when Madeleine disappeared. He said 99% of the phone numbers are likely to belong to “completely unaware and innocent individuals”.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: “Kate and Gerry remain very grateful to the Met for the work they are doing in liaison with the Portuguese authorities.
"Their forthcoming appearance on Crimewatch is an important stage in that ongoing process. Naturally, they hope it will lead to information that will provide the breakthrough to finding Madeleine."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-case-police-launch-huge-trawl-to-trace-phones-of-people-who-were-in-praia-da-luz-when-she-went-missing-in-2007-8857404.html
-
I have personally never seen such in depth information revealed by any investigating police force when the abductee's fate is still unknown. What cases do you know of where this has happened ?
I don't follow all cases but I do have respect for the officers at Scotland Yard and I more than suspect they have a better idea of how to deal with this than forum posters do and I prefer to trust the judgement of those officers rather than forum posters whose anti McCann pedigree colours their posts on the issue.
-
Such cynicism from one so new to the forum!
This is the kind of information often released by forces in order to increase the viewing of important and potentially case-breaking Crimewatch reconstructions which they are involved in.
And you seem to be very much off target with your reference to this article coming from the paper you suggest by your rather nasty reference. That reference is usually reserved for the Daily Mail. Never mind, you might realise that after posting for a while. After all we don't expect anti McCanns to get even simple details right when they read things and you seem to be fitting the bill perfectly.
My comments about the phones comes from my previous experience of carrying out forensic investigations on hard disks. It's one thing finding the files and another altogether proving who put them there.
I was off target with the paper, and though I may not have posted much on here I have been online since 1991, back when the internet was pretty much the domain of of the military and academia so I have posted quite a bit over the years.
As for getting everything right - well we all make mistakes, a sentiment which I'm sure your ...removed unnecessarily provocative comment ...
N
-
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
3/3 Met appeal for info expanded to Germany, Netherlands and Ireland. 41 people still of interest to Op Grange inc 15 from UK #findmadeleine
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
2/3 Met Police currently have 31 requests in various countries for info on phone usage in Praia da Luz at time of Madeleine's disappearance
Clarence Mitchell @mitch_1uk 2m
1/3 New public appeal by Kate and Gerry McCann and Met Police on #BBCCrimewatch on Oct 14. Further appeals on Dutch+German TV #findmadeleine
Clarence Mitchell is tweeting about this at this time of the night/morning ?
He's been conspicuosly absent for quite a while ... and now this ? ( perfectly coinciding with the mail article )
Blimey, the trial must be going worse than even we thought for this little ploy to be necessary
-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-case-police-launch-huge-trawl-to-trace-phones-of-people-who-were-in-praia-da-luz-when-she-went-missing-in-2007-8857404.html
Another wild goose chase ?
-
Well, 195 clues, 38 potential poi, 12 witnesses, ....now 3 more for October 14th
Who has a calculator?
I really am shocked that you could post so nastily about the search for a missing child. You appear to show no hope in your heart for her at all.
And how many of these leads did the Portuguese Police simply ignore? Perhaps a calculator could be applied to that issue too.
Here is one clear example to start with.
Swiss police officers were immediately struck by the physical similarities between Ylenia and Madeleine, who had both gone missing within weeks of each other. They alerted Interpol which, in turn, contacted the Portuguese authorities about its suspicions on August 17.
When it did not get a response, it contacted them again on September 3. Again, there was no response, we were informed by sources in Interpol.
We now know why.
Just four days later, on September 7, Kate and Gerry McCann were named as arguidos in the Portuguese investigation. On September 11, police submitted a summary of their case against them to prosecutors.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330660/Madeleine-McCann-Was-Maddie-snatched-monster-killed-little-lookalike-British-detectives-uncover-dramatic-new-lead--Portuguese-refusing-investigate.html
-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-case-police-launch-huge-trawl-to-trace-phones-of-people-who-were-in-praia-da-luz-when-she-went-missing-in-2007-8857404.html
SURE. After the Public Ministry forbade the portuguese PJ to trace phone calls, they were going to authorize a foreign police force to do it? In your dreams.
Mr and Mrs may do all the appeals they wish, in fact they are trying to work for it, but after this trial I doubt they will have the "energy".
In any case, I do hope that there is something positive going on towards finding what happened to little Madeleine - she is the only one that counts.
-
Another wild goose chase ?
Or a potential lead to what happened to Madeleine?
Readers can judge whose attitude is more supportive of the child, yours or mine?
-
I really am shocked that you could post so nastily about the search for a missing child. You appear to show no hope in your heart for her at all.
And how many of these leads did the Portuguese Police simply ignore? Perhaps a calculator could be applied to that issue too.
Here is one clear example to start with.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330660/Madeleine-McCann-Was-Maddie-snatched-monster-killed-little-lookalike-British-detectives-uncover-dramatic-new-lead--Portuguese-refusing-investigate.html
Get out of the "shock". Don't be an hypocrite. The Scotland Yard is not announcing anything, the journos are. And I suspect it is a Clarence Mitchel release, and I am sorry if I am wrong.
-
It's not a Daily Mail article icabod.
That's two anti McCanns now who have proven that they don't actually read properly. It really could not be much clearer in the OP.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVrrP1TIYAADHoz.jpg)
-
Or a potential lead to what happened to Madeleine?
Readers can judge whose attitude is more supportive of the child, yours or mine?
That's a surrealistic question. The pertinent issue would be "how can we help the McCanns in the mess they've put themselves in ?".
-
I call this marketing.
It's obvious that this news release was orchestrated by the PRs in order to influence the trial that is ongoing.
Wait and see.
-
Get out of the "shock". Don't be an hypocrite. The Scotland Yard is not announcing anything, the journos are. And I suspect it is a Clarence Mitchel release, and I am sorry if I am wrong.
And who announced the information to the journalists? And who arranged the Crimewatch Reconstruction? Do you simply not understand that this information is not the kind of information that Mitchell would have without SY? Do you simply not understand that BBC Crimewatch Reconstructions are done in conjunction with POLICE FORCES?
It is Mitchell's job as spokesperson (unpaid I believe) to highlight things such as this when they are proposed by the BBC and SY. You appear to think he controls these organisations. Such cynical thinking looks quite silly.
-
Gilet, people might have more faith if the investigation didn't appear to be being run like a PR campaign, with announcements in all papers simultaneously.
That's just one of the numerous reasons why people are cynical.
-
I don't follow all cases but I do have respect for the officers at Scotland Yard and I more than suspect they have a better idea of how to deal with this than forum posters do and I prefer to trust the judgement of those officers rather than forum posters whose anti McCann pedigree colours their posts on the issue.
So you claimed knowledge of how missing persons investigations are carried out without being able to bring to the forum one single case to illustrate your claim, is that correct ?
-
I call this marketing.
It's obvious that this news release was orchestrated by the PRs in order to influence the trial that is ongoing.
Wait and see.
Don't forget the position taken by the authorities, they do have to protect themselves. As long as possible.
-
Gilet, people might have more faith if the investigation didn't appear to be being run like a PR campaign, with announcements in all papers simultaneously.
That's just one of the numerous reasons why people are cynical.
Yes, Panem et circenses times are gone...
-
It is Mitchell's job as spokesperson (unpaid I believe)
Are you dreaming, Gilet ? Mr Mitchell was paid by Mr Kennedy !
-
Yes, Panem et circenses times are gone...
8((()*/ Policemen should just be policemen. Not politicians. Increasingly difficult to tell the difference in London.
-
Don't forget the position taken by the authorities, they do have to protect themselves. As long as possible.
Of course. The Scotland Yard or any other police force would not be announcing future actions 10 days in advance. Only Mr. Mitchell could ever believe that the public was stupid enough to take that pill blindfolded (well, some are taking it).
-
Are you dreaming, Gilet ? Mr Mitchell was paid by Mr Kennedy !
And then the fund.
-
That's a surrealistic question. The pertinent issue would be "how can we help the McCanns in the mess they've put themselves in ?".
Nothing surrealistic at all in my post.
One poster suggested SY were conducting a wild goose chase thus showing little hope for Madeleine.
I prefer to remain more optimistic and hope that some kind of truth may emerge from these investigations.
As I said, readers can judge for themselves which stance is more supportive of Madeleine.
As for your question. It is premised on an attack on the McCanns which I refuse to accept is either a helpful or even decent way of looking at the situation. Again readers can judge for themselves whose post to consider most helpful to the McCanns' missing daughter.
-
8((()*/ Policemen should just be policemen. Not politicians. Increasingly difficult to tell the difference in London.
It could be the justification of the Indian varnas. As in the Bhagavad Gita Krisna says to Arjuna, better do badly your dharma than perfectly the dharma of another varna.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVrrP1TIYAADHoz.jpg)
(http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag1/gilet2013/600ADffffHoz_zps54151771.jpg)
Gerry and Kate McCann will assist in a Crimewatch Reconstruction of the case on October 14th.
Excellent news .
Thanks for posting it gilet
-
And then the fund.
And now is, as I said, unpaid. Do try to keep up with the latest information. It really helps.
-
Can someone clarify please
Has Scotland Yard chosen to make this announcement today ... in the middle of the libel trial ? ... or has Clarence Mitchell supplied the papers with this timely 'up-date' on the investigation ?
Do we know ?
-
It could be the justification of the Indian varnas. As in the Bhagavad Gita Krisna says to Arjuna, better do badly your dharma than perfectly the dharma of another varna.
Oh so pretentious!
8(>((
-
Nothing surrealistic at all in my post.
One poster suggested SY were conducting a wild goose chase thus showing little hope for Madeleine.
I prefer to remain more optimistic and hope that some kind of truth may emerge from these investigations.
As I said, readers can judge for themselves which stance is more supportive of Madeleine.
As for your question. It is premised on an attack on the McCanns which I refuse to accept is either a helpful or even decent way of looking at the situation. Again readers can judge for themselves whose post to consider most helpful to the McCanns' missing daughter.
The Press is not going to help find Madeleine or what happened to her. By now you should have learned that for them what counts is selling.
For six years the Press has been selling news and no-news, with little or no respect for little Madeleine or for her family.
But it is your choice to believe them.
-
It could be the justification of the Indian varnas. As in the Bhagavad Gita Krisna says to Arjuna, better do badly your dharma than perfectly the dharma of another varna.
Wow ?>)()<
-
Oh so pretentious!
8(>((
oh so nasty
8(8-))
-
Can someone clarify please
Has Scotland Yard chosen to make this announcement today ... in the middle of the libel trial ? ... or has Clarence Mitchell supplied the papers with this timely 'up-date' on the investigation ?
Do we know ?
The announcement is due to the fact, I suspect, that the papers have picked up on the early information sent to them by the TV channels of their upcoming programming. The BBC will have listed the Crimewatch details and SY will have supported this Crimewatch programme as Police Forces usually do with extra information in order to increase the viewing figures of the programme and hence its usefulness as a reconstruction and public appeal.
If you are trying to suggest the McCanns are capable of dictating the timing of a Crimewatch Reconstruction being undertaken by the BBC and SY then I have even less respect for your notions than previously as that is simply bonkers.
-
oh so nasty
8(8-))
Not at all. It was a factual comment about the post Anne Guedes made. That post was utterly pretentious flim flam as was her "panem et circenses" reference when even her English is perfectly adequate to use the terms 'bread and circuses'.
-
The announcement is due to the fact, I suspect, that the papers have picked up on the early information sent to them by the TV channels of their upcoming programming. The BBC will have listed the Crimewatch details and SY will have supported this Crimewatch programme as Police Forces usually do with extra information in order to increase the viewing figures of the programme and hence its usefulness as a reconstruction and public appeal.
If you are trying to suggest the McCanns are capable of dictating the timing of a Crimewatch Reconstruction being undertaken by the BBC and SY then I have even less respect for your notions than previously as that is simply bonkers.
Do you ?
You don't think there's a chance that Clarence Mitchell alerted them to it ? ... and that maybe it had to do with the fact that things are not going well in Lisbon and a major distraction is needed ?
No chance of that possibility ?
-
Of course. The Scotland Yard or any other police force would not be announcing future actions 10 days in advance. Only Mr. Mitchell could ever believe that the public was stupid enough to take that pill blindfolded (well, some are taking it).
You clearly are so entrenched in your views that you cannot accept anything which does not fit your rather narrow focus.
Here TV programme schedules are announced well in advance (10 days to 2 weeks is normal) to the newspapers and indeed with non-live programmes and non-live sections of programmes the papers recieve prior copies in order that reviews can be prepared in advance.
It is also normal her for police forces to give details of upcoming Crimewatch Reconstructions well in advance to the press so that the public can be encouraged to watch as unlike Portugal we do not hide such reconstructions from the public. Our view differs from that of Amaral who told us that such requests for assistance from the public were a waste of police time and effort.
-
Oh so pretentious!
8(>((
So ignorant of our Indo-European roots !
-
Do you ?
You don't think there's a chance that Clarence Mitchell alerted them to it ? ... and that maybe it had to do with the fact that things are not going well in Lisbon and a major distraction is needed ?
No chance of that possibility ?
No I don't think there is much chance at all of that possibility as I know that the papers will be getting the TV schedules directly from the TV companies around this time for programming two weeks hence.
I don't think it had anything to do with Lisbon.
You may think cynically and conspiratorially all the time. I don't. I understand the rhythm of the media and think that is the simplest and most likely option.
-
Do you ?
You don't think there's a chance that Clarence Mitchell alerted them to it ? ... and that maybe it had to do with the fact that things are not going well in Lisbon and a major distraction is needed ?
No chance of that possibility ?
Gilet is totally neglecting the fact that authorities compromised themselves in this saga.
-
I understand the rhythm of the media and think that is the simplest and most likely option.
Lovely !
-
So ignorant of our Indo-European roots !
Not at all. Your presumption of my ignorance is mistaken.
But that does not affect the fact that I believe your posting of the latin 'panem et circenses' instead of the more normal 'bread and circuses' and your allusions to Dharma were both utterly pretentious and a pretence at greater intelligence than other posters here. Unfortunately it just looks rather pathetic when you try to sound so clever while avoiding the simple ways of expressing the same ideas.
-
Lovely !
So glad you agree. The simplest solution to a problem is always the best. The simplest explanation for an action is always more likely than convoluted conspiracy claims. And the simplest way of expressing an idea is almost always more acceptable, more easily understood and more useful than pretentious attempts to befuddle people with reference to latin terms which translate perfectly acceptably and flowery references to ancient beliefs which don't translate so easily.
-
I've been informed (that's exceptional) that the McCanns will make an appeal and appear on TV in regard to new information on phone records. It seems they have an interview on the 16th with Redwood to do a TV appearance in Germany.
What should one believe ? Probably think that's time lost.
-
Gilet is totally neglecting the fact that authorities compromised themselves in this saga.
Indeed they did. By ignoring so many potential leads such as the one offered to the PJ by the Swiss via Interpol in early September 2007 the Portuguese authorities definitely compromised themselves in this case much to the detriment of justice and of course to the poor little girl, Madeleine at the heart of the case.
Thankfully SY are now making up for these mistakes by the PT Police.
-
You clearly are so entrenched in your views that you cannot accept anything which does not fit your rather narrow focus.
Here TV programme schedules are announced well in advance (10 days to 2 weeks is normal) to the newspapers and indeed with non-live programmes and non-live sections of programmes the papers recieve prior copies in order that reviews can be prepared in advance.
It is also normal her for police forces to give details of upcoming Crimewatch Reconstructions well in advance to the press so that the public can be encouraged to watch as unlike Portugal we do not hide such reconstructions from the public. Our view differs from that of Amaral who told us that such requests for assistance from the public were a waste of police time and effort.
A TV show I believe. In fact the Murdoch portuguese friend, Expresso, is announcing it also. But before you call me names and insult me, check yourself in a mirror.
-
So glad you agree. The simplest solution to a problem is always the best. The simplest explanation for an action is always more likely than convoluted conspiracy claims. And the simplest way of expressing an idea is almost always more acceptable, more easily understood and more useful than pretentious attempts to befuddle people with reference to latin terms which translate perfectly acceptably and flowery references to ancient beliefs which don't translate so easily.
Don't spit on culture, if you please, we're all made of it !
-
I've been informed (that's exceptional) that the McCanns will make an appeal and appear on TV in regard to new information on phone records. It seems they have an interview on the 16th with Redwood to do a TV appearance in Germany.
What should one believe ? Probably think that's time lost.
Yes, I agree, I believe they are desperately trying to make up for the time lost by the botched PJ investigation. Yes.
If you read the news articles I have posted in this thread you will see that there are further details about the interviews and appeals. The first is on the 14th I believe when they will appeal on the BBC Crimewatch programme alongside DCI Redwood.
-
And now is, as I said, unpaid. Do try to keep up with the latest information. It really helps.
Cite please ?
-
Indeed they did. By ignoring so many potential leads such as the one offered to the PJ by the Swiss via Interpol in early September 2007 the Portuguese authorities definitely compromised themselves in this case much to the detriment of justice and of course to the poor little girl, Madeleine at the heart of the case.
Thankfully SY are now making up for these mistakes by the PT Police.
But five years later than might have been. And 29 months after the start of their review. This is another reason why people are cynical, gilet.
-
Thankfully SY are now making up for these mistakes by the PT Police.
You better pray and even wake up during the night to pray !
-
Yes, I agree, I believe they are desperately trying to make up for the time lost by the botched PJ investigation. Yes.
It was over two years before they petitioned for a review.
These facts cannot be erased, gilet. Though they may be forgotten by most.
-
Yes, I agree, I believe they are desperately trying to make up for the time lost by the botched PJ investigation. Yes.
If you read the news articles I have posted in this thread you will see that there are further details about the interviews and appeals. The first is on the 14th I believe when they will appeal on the BBC Crimewatch programme alongside DCI Redwood.
If only you could be true, Gilet ! Do try to comfort your convictions though.
-
Another piece of front page sensationalism by the Great British Press intended only to fill the coffers of [Name removed] Desmond. Shall we look at the reality shall we?
Back 6 years ago the vast majority of mobile phones used in Europe were analogue and most of the Sim cards used in them were never registered. It was the age of the throw away Sim. Scotland Yard might very well have received telephony records from the various service providers in the Luz area but without registration they are meaningless. Looking for a needle in a haystack doesn't even go there.
Another reality my dears is that serious criminals and child abductors fall into that category have not been in the habit of registering their Sim cards for obvious reasons. Thus we have a quandary for SY in the matching of the calls to the individuals who made and received them. A neat trick which I fear they will never pull off for all the reasons previously stated. And it was all going so well too....... 8)><(
-
Yes, I agree, I believe they are desperately trying to make up for the time lost by the botched PJ investigation. Yes.
If you read the news articles I have posted in this thread you will see that there are further details about the interviews and appeals. The first is on the 14th I believe when they will appeal on the BBC Crimewatch programme alongside DCI Redwood.
You mean they are desperately trying to look believable. If it took them six years to start moving their behinds to do anything, they chose indeed a very interesting period.
-
A TV show I believe. In fact the Murdoch portuguese friend, Expresso, is announcing it also. But before you call me names and insult me, check yourself in a mirror.
A number of TV programmes as a matter of fact in various parts of Europe where leads are currently being followed up.
I am simply glad that Expresso has picked up the story. It shows that there is still interest in finding out in Portugal, among some of the population at least, what happened to Madeleine McCann. Thankfully, not everyone even there is fixated on the un-evidenced speculation of Amaral.
I am sorry you did not show the same courtesy to readers here as I have shown. It is a shame you simply referred to the post in Expresso and could not even bring yourself to provide a link. Little courtesies like that go a very long way you know. I shall post the story shortly for the benefit of readers.
-
Indeed they did. By ignoring so many potential leads such as the one offered to the PJ by the Swiss via Interpol in early September 2007 the Portuguese authorities definitely compromised themselves in this case much to the detriment of justice and of course to the poor little girl, Madeleine at the heart of the case.
Thankfully SY are now making up for these mistakes by the PT Police.
Are they ? Has Madeleine been found ?
-
No I don't think there is much chance at all of that possibility as I know that the papers will be getting the TV schedules directly from the TV companies around this time for programming two weeks hence.
I don't think it had anything to do with Lisbon.
You may think cynically and conspiratorially all the time. I don't. I understand the rhythm of the media and think that is the simplest and most likely option.
OK ... let's run with that
The Express 'happen' upon this development because of TV listings
The minion on the paper who mundanely works on the TV schedules spots the 'scoop' ... and rings the editor ( who naturally takes the call from the minion )
"You are onto something here" late working editor tells wannabee Jimmy Olsen ... "Put me through to my man at the Yard"
Scotland Yard, having been scooped by the minion in TV listings, tells the editor all .... even post Leveson, the editor's man at the yard spills his guts about a very sensitive investigation that has cost the public about five million pounds
The editor ... pleased ... runs his story
But he is a generous editor, and decides that he will share Jimmy TV listings Olsen's scoop with otherl newspapers ... so they can all break the news together
Is that how you think it worked ?
-
Google Translation
Original here
http://expresso.sapo.pt/judiciaria-volta-a-apoiar-britanicos-no-caso-maddie=f833825
Judicial back to British support in Maddie case
The British authorities sent a letter rogatory to the Portuguese authorities on the Maddie case. The British have 37 detectives working and 38 suspects.
Hugo Franco
12:01 Friday, October 4, 2013 Last updated 48 minutes ago
Lusa Maddie's father, Gerry McCann being carried off the court in Lisbon last week.
"The British authorities forwarded a letter rogatory to the Portuguese on the Maddie case. Portuguese And the MP referred it to the Judiciary Police for their fulfillment in the usual terms." Is this the only comment from the deputy national director of the PJ, Pedro do Carmo, the news that the Judiciary has formed a new team to work on the lines of research identified by British police about the disappearance of British child Madeleine McCann, as advances Lusa.
According to officials of Scotland Yard, interviewed by Lusa, a group of six officers of the delegation of Faro was formed to assist the British unit responsible for "Operation Grange" Metropolitan Police, which is reviewing all clues related to the case after the intervention of the British Prime Minister, David Cameron.
Portugal is one of 31 countries whose authorities were sent a letter of request with a request for assistance concerning elements that British police want to see clear, related persons and telephone data.
38 suspects and 37 inspectors working on the case
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, responsible for the team of about 37 people working on this case, said that the British police are trying to find the owners of mobile phones identified as being in the area and height of the disappearance.
This database related to mobile phones, he said, "had already been observed, but not to the level of detail" that are now doing. In June, British police announced the existence of "38 people of interest" they want to question, including several Portuguese. "These are people who were in a location radius disappearance and who there is reason to be suspicious. It takes a little more than circumstantial issues," said Redwood.
At 12 British initially identified yet joined three more, which are already being investigated, but the inspector believes that "possibly be eliminated" in the list soon. A Scotland Yard, working on the case a year ago, is confident of having found "new information" relevant, based on 40,000 documents and clues collected by police Portugal, UK and eight different companies private detective.
New broadcast appeal on October 14
Scotland Yard will launch a new broadcast appeal, first in BBC, October 14, and the following days at stations in Germany and the Netherlands, and is in talks to do well in Ireland.
Remember that Madeleine McCann disappeared a few days before making four years, May 3, 2007, the room where she was sleeping with her two twin brothers, younger, in an apartment of a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, Algarve while the parents dined with a group of friends at a nearby restaurant. After one of the most expensive investigations carried out by the Portuguese authorities, one year later, July 21, 2008, the prosecutor decided to close the case of the disappearance of Maddie, for lack of evidence, and withdraw the status of the accused girl's parents English, who disappeared in May 2007.
Three years after Portugal shelve the inquiry, the British launched an investigation into the case. And now in July this year, the London Metropolitan Police, known as Scotland Yard, has advanced to a new stage in the criminal investigation that has to run on Madeleine McCann. Heard at the time by Express, a source of PJ assured that until now had not been found by the British evidence to justify reopening the criminal investigation. "At least in the light of the Portuguese law, there is no evidence," said the same official.
-
You better pray and even wake up during the night to pray !
No need. I don't have to pray for UK police to do a good job. If you think you have to pray for PT police to do such a job then I simply pity you.
-
Another piece of front page sensationalism by the Great British Press intended only to fill the coffers of [Name removed] Desmond. Shall we look at the reality shall we?
Back 6 years ago the vast majority of mobile phones used in Europe were analogue and most of the Sim cards used in them were never registered. It was the age of the throw away Sim. Scotland Yard might very well have received telephony records from the various service providers in the Luz area but without registration they are meaningless. Looking for a needle in a haystack doesn't even go there.
Another reality my dears is that serious criminals and child abductors fall into that category have not been in the habit of registering their Sim cards for obvious reasons. Thus we have a quandary for SY in the matching of the calls to the individuals who made and received them. A neat trick which I fear they will never pull off for all the reasons previously stated. And it was all going so well too....... 8)><(
Absolutely.
And any record that existed in portuguese mobile companies, were destroyed because the judge ordered that they would be a breach of intimacy.
-
Cite please ?
I refer you to his many interviews where he has stated this.
-
It was over two years before they petitioned for a review.
These facts cannot be erased, gilet. Though they may be forgotten by most.
Was it really two years? Cite!
-
Not at all. Your presumption of my ignorance is mistaken.
But that does not affect the fact that I believe your posting of the latin 'panem et circenses' instead of the more normal 'bread and circuses' and your allusions to Dharma were both utterly pretentious and a pretence at greater intelligence than other posters here. Unfortunately it just looks rather pathetic when you try to sound so clever while avoiding the simple ways of expressing the same ideas.
Come on, Gilet, latin expressions are common knowledge, it's yokel to translate them in modern language !
Now about dharma I'm not sure your knowledge is acute. In fact this is a very complex notion and it has no straight translation. That's why I illustrated it with the order Krisna gave to Arjuna before the battle against the Kauravās, his uncles and cousins.
-
A number of TV programmes as a matter of fact in various parts of Europe where leads are currently being followed up.
I am simply glad that Expresso has picked up the story. It shows that there is still interest in finding out in Portugal, among some of the population at least, what happened to Madeleine McCann. Thankfully, not everyone even there is fixated on the un-evidenced speculation of Amaral.
I am sorry you did not show the same courtesy to readers here as I have shown. It is a shame you simply referred to the post in Expresso and could not even bring yourself to provide a link. Little courtesies like that go a very long way you know. I shall post the story shortly for the benefit of readers.
Courtesy to you?!!!
Give me a break!
-
But five years later than might have been. And 29 months after the start of their review. This is another reason why people are cynical, gilet.
Cynicism is not a very nice attribute.
And people are expressing cynicism now over the very action that they have been calling on the McCanns to undertake. Somehow the falsity of the position some posters are taking is shining through.
-
I refer you to his many interviews where he has stated this.
I have read none of the interviews you mention so it would be helpful if you could post some evidence of your claim.
-
Courtesy to you?!!!
Give me a break!
Not to me at all. But to readers of the forum.
It is not without some reason that I refer to this lack of courtesy on the part of such as yourself.
Why is it I wonder that you are so unhelpful with such basics as providing links to posts you are referring to?
Why more generally is there such a lack of information from Portuguese posters such as yourself as to the timetable of the Amaral case, as to the normal processes involved in such cases. Why do you hide so much?
-
I find it dam amusing that gilet has to resort to google to translate a Portuguese newspaper article after spending most of the day apparently criticising Anne and her use of the English language. The words prize hypocrite are on the tip of my tongue @)(++(*
I have this image of a startled hare standing up in a field every time the British Press bring out yet more Madeleine stories.
(http://www.innyangling.net/innyangling_Report11_files/Hare5.jpg)
-
I have read none of the interviews you mention so it would be helpful if you could post some evidence of your claim.
And you claim to know the case?
Oh dear.
When I have finished responding to people here I will indeed post such evidence but I am busy at the moment.
Don't wait up though, it may not be for some hours.
-
Cynicism is not a very nice attribute.
And people are expressing cynicism now over the very action that they have been calling on the McCanns to undertake. Somehow the falsity of the position some posters are taking is shining through.
You know the etymology of cynism, Gilet, no use to ask the dogs, isn't it ?
-
And you claim to know the case?
Oh dear.
When I have finished responding to people here I will indeed post such evidence but I am busy at the moment.
Of course you will gilet, don't doubt it for a moment.
Shall I remind you if you forget ?
-
I am busy at the moment.
Be careful, Gilet, no excess please, we need you !
-
I find it dam amusing that gilet has to resort to google to translate a Portuguese newspaper article after spending most of the day apparently criticising Anne and her use of the English language. The words prize hypocrite are on the tip of my tongue @)(++(*
You really don't follow do you?
There is NO hypocrisy on my part at all.
Your nasty post has proved that you have not grasped the basic difference between me and Anne Guedes.
Unlike Anne Guedes I profess no proficiency in Portuguese.
She claims that she is competent in English and Portuguese and can follow and record a trial in those languages while regularly demonstrating that she does not even have the requisite skill to write in comprehensible English.
I claim no such thing. It is not hypocritical of me to address the claims made by Anne Guedes whilst making no similar claims of myself. That you think otherwise is a sad reflection on your understanding of the position.
-
Of course you will gilet, don't doubt it for a moment.
Shall I remind you if you forget ?
Please do.
-
I find it dam amusing that gilet has to resort to google to translate a Portuguese newspaper article after spending most of the day apparently criticising Anne and her use of the English language. The words prize hypocrite are on the tip of my tongue @)(++(*
I have this image of a startled hare standing up in a field every time the British Press bring out yet more Madeleine stories.
(http://www.innyangling.net/innyangling_Report11_files/Hare5.jpg)
so funny @)(++(* I love that picture
-
You know the etymology of cynism, Gilet, no use to ask the dogs, isn't it ?
It is most appropriate that those who profess to believe without question the barks of the dogs are evidence, when the expert clearly states that they are not, should post with such an ingrained cynicism on other issues.
-
she does not even have the requisite skill to write in comprehensible English.
You manage to understand me sometimes though..
-
Come on, Gilet, latin expressions are common knowledge, it's yokel to translate them in modern language !
Now about dharma I'm not sure your knowledge is acute. In fact this is a very complex notion and it has no straight translation. That's why I illustrated it with the order Krisna gave to Arjuna before the battle against the Kauravās, his uncles and cousins.
Merely continuing with the silly pretentiousness does not enhance you to potential readers. It demonstrates an inability on your part to express yourself more pragmatically.
And when you insert latin phrases simply to impress you actually fail to impress.
-
You really don't follow do you?
There is NO hypocrisy on my part at all.
Your nasty post has proved that you have not grasped the basic difference between me and Anne Guedes.
Unlike Anne Guedes I profess no proficiency in Portuguese.
She claims that she is competent in English and Portuguese and can follow and record a trial in those languages while regularly demonstrating that she does not even have the requisite skill to write in comprehensible English.
I claim no such thing. It is not hypocritical of me to address the claims made by Anne Guedes whilst making no similar claims of myself. That you think otherwise is a sad reflection on your understanding of the position.
So you spent the day labouring a Portuguese tweet when you haven't got the first clue what it really meant? Is that it in a nutshell Gilet?
-
You manage to understand me sometimes though..
Only when your posts are comprehensible. The majority are, some are very much not.
-
So you spent the day labouring a Portuguese tweet when you haven't got the first clue what it really meant? Is that it in a nutshell Gilet?
Not at all. I consulted with a fully qualified professional translator before I ever commented on the tweet. There was no threat to kill anyone within the tweet as Anne Guedes claimed.
-
It is most appropriate that those who profess to believe without question the barks of the dogs are evidence, when the expert clearly states that they are not, should post with such an ingrained cynicism on other issues.
Be ignorant of the etymology of cynism is a thing, persisting on that ignorance another one.
-
Not at all. I consulted with a fully qualified professional translator before I ever commented on the tweet. There was no threat to kill anyone within the tweet as Anne Guedes claimed.
She never said there was and mores to the point your posting that she was sent death threats (plural) was wholly inaccurate and only intended to scatter gun the issue. Very disingenuous of you Gilet ?? tut tut
-
Be ignorant of the etymology of cynism is a thing, persisting on that ignorance another one.
Again you are completely wrong. I am wholly aware of the etymology of the word cynicism. Perhaps you failed to understand the little English joke in my response which demonstrated my understanding?
-
I consulted with a fully qualified professional translator
Did you really ? That's killing me !
-
Did you really ? That's killing me !
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* and did he come with a certificate?
-
Again you are completely wrong. I am wholly aware of the etymology of the word cynicism. Perhaps you failed to understand the little English joke in my response which demonstrated my understanding?
I confess I failed. I'd appreciate your clarifying..
-
Again you are completely wrong. I am wholly aware of the etymology of the word cynicism. Perhaps you failed to understand the little English joke in my response which demonstrated my understanding?
In the same way you misunderstood the Portuguese lawyers thinly veiled threat. The threat which you spend all day posting never existed. tut tut again Gilet.
-
She never said there was and mores to the point your posting that she was sent death threats (plural) was wholly inaccurate and only intended to scatter gun the issue. Very disingenuous of you Gilet ?? tut tut
You have clearly been hoodwinked to believe that by those who have covered up as best they can here. But the proof is posted in a number of places that Anne Guedes did indeed make the claim that she had recieved a threat on her life. Sorry if you missed it. A shame the powers that be decided to hide the evidence from you.
And you didn't see the little humour in my use of the word 'threats' as opposed to 'threat'. Sorry you missed that but it paralleled the use of 'kills'. I did think at the time it might be missed by many whose attention to such fine detail was not so enhanced but went ahead anyway.
-
Did you really ? That's killing me !
It wasn't a threat on my part. Let's not have a whole thread now saying I threatened to kill you as well!
It is simply a fact.
Sorry if your cynicism is getting the better of you again.
-
and did he come with a certificate?
My fourth laugh in 24 hours ! Great, I better go to bed, I'm sure I'll wake up during the night just to laugh a bit more !
Many thanks for that, all of you !
-
Seems the accounts are still stating that media liaison is being paid for by the fund. What do you think gilet, do those readies have Clarence's name on them ?
BTW no Clarence quote as yet and no example of a missing person's case where ongoing investigations were made public. Not doing too well in the proof department tonight, are we ?
-
You have clearly been hoodwinked to believe that by those who have covered up as best they can here. But the proof is posted in a number of places that Anne Guedes did indeed make the claim that she had recieved a threat on her life. Sorry if you missed it. A shame the powers that be decided to hide the evidence from you.
And you didn't see the little humour in my use of the word 'threats' as opposed to 'threat'. Sorry you missed that but it paralleled the use of 'kills'. I did think at the time it might be missed by many whose attention to such fine detail was not so enhanced but went ahead anyway.
There you go again Gilet, blaming others. Why are you now denying your claim that Anne said she received death threats? Are you backtracking Gilet?
You do know what the real meaning of the phrase 'he kills me' is don't you Gilet?
-
It wasn't a threat on my part. Let's not have a whole thread now saying I threatened to kill you as well!
It is simply a fact.
Sorry if your cynicism is getting the better of you again.
If you kill me it will be out of laughing and I do have to bless you for that !
-
I confess I failed. I'd appreciate your clarifying..
My use of the genitive plural of the word dogs to be precise.
-
There you go again Gilet, blaming others. Why are you now denying your claim that Anne said she received death threats? Are you backtracking Gilet?
Please reread more carefully.
Then you will see you have misread and I have retracted nothing, merely explained the joke you missed over the plural of the word.
-
Please reread more carefully.
Then you will see you have misread and I have retracted nothing, merely explained the joke you missed over the plural of the word.
So it is a joke now? Apparently it is on you if you get my meaning Gilet.
I notice from the mods board that you spend yesterday calling Anne a liar. Have you apologised yet?
-
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* and did he come with a certificate?
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
-
My use of the genitive plural of the word dogs to be precise.
You are a must! 8(0(*
-
Tomorrow you will have the Expresso article translated, but not by me
Judiciária volta a apoiar britânicos no caso Maddie
Ler mais: http://expresso.sapo.pt/judiciaria-volta-a-apoiar-britanicos-no-caso-maddie=f833825#ixzz2giAWKEW2
-
My use of the genitive plural of the word dogs (SIC) to be precise.
I was going to bed when suddenly your genitive plural (I would say plural genitive) killed the sleeping mode in me. I had to check. What genitive form is there in your sentence ?
It is most appropriate that those who profess to believe without question the barks of the dogs are evidence, when the expert clearly states that they are not, should post with such an ingrained cynicism on other issues.
-
Another piece of front page sensationalism by the Great British Press intended only to fill the coffers of [Name removed] Desmond. Shall we look at the reality shall we?
Back 6 years ago the vast majority of mobile phones used in Europe were analogue and most of the Sim cards used in them were never registered. It was the age of the throw away Sim. Scotland Yard might very well have received telephony records from the various service providers in the Luz area but without registration they are meaningless. Looking for a needle in a haystack doesn't even go there.
Another reality my dears is that serious criminals and child abductors fall into that category have not been in the habit of registering their Sim cards for obvious reasons. Thus we have a quandary for SY in the matching of the calls to the individuals who made and received them. A neat trick which I fear they will never pull off for all the reasons previously stated. And it was all going so well too....... 8)><(
Is it at all likely that certain things could be inferred - such as the number of people involved in a particular episode - from a pattern or patterns of calls made at at given times?
-
I was going to bed when suddenly your genitive plural (I would say plural genitive) killed the sleeping mode in me. I had to check. What genitive form is there in your sentence ?
It is most appropriate that those who profess to believe without question the barks of the dogs are evidence, when the expert clearly states that they are not, should post with such an ingrained cynicism on other issues.
In order that you do not yourself bring discredit upon your claim to be a grammarian, I would ask that you reconsider the content of the post you have made.
Firstly if you were to insist upon the phrase "plural genitive" rather than the correct "genitive plural" then you would be going somewhat against the grain and showing a lack of fluency in English as the normal usage is the form I have used.
Secondly your inability to apparently recognise the genitive plural phrase within the sentence is quite incredible as it is in the prepositional (partitive) construction common in both French and Portuguese rather than the apostrophe 's' construction which is also used in English. For you not to recognise that "the barks of the dogs" is a partitive genitive construction is quite shocking for one who supposedly prides herself on her knowledge of grammar particularly in Romance languages where that construction is so widely used.
-
So it is a joke now? Apparently it is on you if you get my meaning Gilet.
I notice from the mods board that you spend yesterday calling Anne a liar. Have you apologised yet?
You can notice what you like. It is frankly none of your business.
As for the joke being on me. The very fact that you have clearly not yet understood the joke stands your claim upon its head.
-
anne its salt how gulliblle gilet is i wouldnt worry one iota about them 8)-)))
-
"salt"?
-
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said the revelations in the Crimewatch documentary would throw a “substantially different” light on the case.
He said: “It’s not just a bland ‘can you help us’ appeal. There is different material and a different understanding to be presented. There is new information not previously presented – fresh, substantive material.”
Mr Rowley said the documentary was “significant” for the McCanns because it would show the couple working with police.
He said: “In view of the history of this case and how the McCanns were presented originally this is the first time they will have sat alongside police officers. From their perspective it is quite significant.”
-
anne its salt how gulliblle gilet is i wouldnt worry one iota about them 8)-)))
I am neither salt nor gulliblle (sic). However, I thank the Lord that I am literate.
Perhaps that is because i was studying at age 11 instead of throwing embarrassing toddler tantrums?
Or perhaps it is that I left home at age 18 and became a university student (instead of simply sitting at home letting mummy and daddy look after me)?
-
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said the revelations in the Crimewatch documentary would throw a “substantially different” light on the case.
He said: “It’s not just a bland ‘can you help us’ appeal. There is different material and a different understanding to be presented. There is new information not previously presented – fresh, substantive material.”
Mr Rowley said the documentary was “significant” for the McCanns because it would show the couple working with police.
He said: “In view of the history of this case and how the McCanns were presented originally this is the first time they will have sat alongside police officers. From their perspective it is quite significant.”
That is a hopeful sign and (I am afraid) quite a blow to those who are dedicated to denying the McCanns their due rights as the parents of a missing child.
-
reported to moderator you have no f..king idea about disabilities its ignorant people like you who make the disabled community afraid to go out now f..k off you are on ignore permanatly kiss my ass.sorry mods but i have had enough of this persons nastyness and ignorance
It wasn't me who brought up those facts about you. It was you who proudly posted that you had had a toddler tantrum aged 11 and that you were at home aged 34. If you feel that we should not comment on those matters then perhaps you should not have posted them.
And what has disability got to do with it? I never mentioned disability.
And really do you have to demonstrate what a potty mouth you have with all that effin' and blindin'?
-
Madeleine McCann investigation police vet every phone call made from resort
DETECTIVES investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann raised hopes of a breakthrough yesterday after revealing a major new line of inquiry.
By: David Pilditch
Published: Fri, October 4, 2013
A Scotland Yard squad is trawling through mobile phone calls made in the days before she vanished.
Officers are building up a detailed picture of who was in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz at the time and the contact between them.
They believe the investigation could be the key to solving the six-year mystery.
The Yard yesterday revealed new evidence has been uncovered about the fate of the youngster and announced that three more suspects or “persons of interest” have been identified.
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry will take part in a Crimewatch special and make a new appeal for information in the light of the “fresh, substantive” material unearthed.
Investigators will reveal a new theory that they say will give a “different understanding” about the case.
The programme, which will be screened on October 14, will ¬feature a reconstruction of events in the Portuguese resort on the night of May 3, 2007. And it will highlight a series of new leads found by the team of 37 Yard detectives.
The squad has identified 41 potential suspects – up from 38 – including 15 UK nationals. Three of the British suspects are expected to be cleared in the next few days.
Senior officers revealed yesterday that any person who was in Praia da Luz on or around May 3 could receive a phone call from the Metropolitan Police. Last night detectives appealed for anyone who was in the resort in the days running up to Madeleine’s disappearance who has never before been contacted by police to come forward.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, who is leading the inquiry, said: “We are trying to establish precisely who was nearby when Madeleine disappeared.
“A lot of the sources of information we would use to solve a crime in London are not available to us in Portugal. There is no CCTV footage so we are having to do it the hard way.
“We are working outwards from the spot where Madeleine was last seen. It is like peeling the layers of an onion.
“Everything is designed to bring us to that core moment when she disappeared. We hope to speak to everyone who was in Praia da Luz at the time.
“The majority will be entirely uninvolved in what happened but some will be witnesses and others may be suspects. This is not just a general trawl. This is a targeted attack on the mobile phone database. It has not happened before.”
A lot of the sources of information we would use to solve a crime in London are not available to us in Portugal. There is no CCTV footage so we are having to do it the hard way
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood[/li]
The vast log of mobile phone traffic is made up of thousands of calls from people who live in 31 countries.
In an international operation, detectives have contacted police forces around the globe in their attempt to identify everyone who was in the resort at the time Madeleine disappeared.
Police say 99.9 per cent of those who left their phone footprint will be innocent residents, holidaymakers or workers. But they could lead to new witnesses and potentially unearth an abductor.
Officers have established the majority of foreign nationals in the resort are from the UK, Ireland, Holland and Germany.
Madeleine was three when she vanished from her family’s Ocean Club apartment while her parents were dining with friends in a nearby tapas bar.
When worldwide appeals failed to produce any positive sightings, Portuguese police named her parents as suspects but later backtracked, lifted the couple’s “arguido” status and closed the investigation.
Since then Kate and Gerry, both 45, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have fought for the case to be re-opened.
A direct appeal to David Cameron prompted the launch of the UK police review which uncovered so many new leads it has turned into an active investigation.
Last night the couple’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Kate and Gerry remain very grateful to the Met for the work they are doing in liaison with the Portuguese authorities.
“Their forthcoming appearance on Crimewatch is an important stage in that process. Naturally, they hope it will lead to information that will provide the breakthrough to finding Madeleine.”
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said the revelations in the Crimewatch documentary would throw a “substantially different” light on the case.
He said: “It’s not just a bland ‘can you help us’ appeal. There is different material and a different understanding to be presented. There is new information not previously presented – fresh, substantive material.”
Mr Rowley said the documentary was “significant” for the McCanns because it would show the couple working with police.
He said: “In view of the history of this case and how the McCanns were presented originally this is the first time they will have sat alongside police officers. From their perspective it is quite significant.”
[/quote]
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/434211/Madeleine-McCann-investigation-police-vet-every-phone-call-made-from-resort
-
im sorry to everybody else for my language but a person can only take so much and why should i be picked on because of things i cant control
-
im sorry to everybody else for my language but a person can only take so much and why should i be picked on because of things i cant control
Perhaps if you were not so rude to other posters you would be treated better
-
im sorry to everybody else for my language but a person can only take so much and why should i be picked on because of things i cant control
Why are you suggesting I picked on you? I did not.
I responded to the initial abusive post you made about me. In responding to your abuse I referred only to facts which you had proudly posted on a recent thread. If you are so touchy about such matters the answer is simple. Don't post such things about yourself and don't post abusively about other posters either.
-
Madeleine McCann investigation police vet every phone call made from resort....
This is proper policing..proper investigation. Why didn't the PJ do this...because they were convinced the parents had done it
-
Madeleine McCann investigation police vet every phone call made from resort....
This is proper policing..proper investigation. Why didn't the PJ do this...because they were convinced the parents had done it
Thank God someone is finally doing this work.
The PJ never made any effort to check on the visitors to PDL who were in the area at the time of the disappearance. They failed Madeleine in that regard.
And before people try to blame the McCanns for not doing this work themselves or with the aid of the private detectives they should remember this is not the kind of work that anyone but police can do.
-
Yet again.
Where is the proof of abduction.
Not one iota.
This has simply become the cover up of two parents who REPEATEDLY AND RECKLESSLY ENDANGERED THE LIFE OF ALL THEIR CHILDREN.
THERE has not been one trace of Madeleine in this time, despiter their being an extensive reward being on offer.
The SY investigation is a joke, REDWOOD was involved in the Jill Dando in the conviction of the mentally impaired Barry George.
i.e. The bottom line hasn't changed one iota.
There was never any evidence of abduction and that still remains the case.
TO THE MCCANN SUPPORTERS, PROVE ME WRONG. >@@(*&)
AND TELL ME WHERE MADELEINE IS. >@@(*&)
LIKEWISE 41 PERSONS OF INTEREST ??????
-
Yet again.
Where is the proof of abduction.
Not one iota.
This has simply become the cover up of two parents who REPEATEDLY AND RECKLESSLY ENDANGERED THE LIFE OF ALL THEIR CHILDREN.
THERE has not been one trace of Madeleine in this time, despiter their being an extensive reward being on offer.
The SY investigation is a joke, REDWOOD was involved in the Jill Dando in the conviction of the mentally impaired Barry George.
i.e. The bottom line hasn't changed one iota.
There was never any evidence of abduction and that still remains the case.
TO THE MCCANN SUPPORTERS, PROVE ME WRONG. >@@(*&)
AND TELL ME WHERE MADELEINE IS.
i wouldnt hold your breathe they think she is alive and unharmed with a pedo thats got to tell you something
-
The above two posts from stephen and Carlymichelle respectively are off-topic and irrelevant.
-
i wouldnt hold your breathe they think she is alive and unharmed with a pedo thats got to tell you something
Precisely Carlymichelle.
All that is visible is a whitewash of her parents.
No more, no less. >@@(*&)
-
The above two posts from stephen and Carlymichelle respectively are off-topic and irrelevant.
Rubbish, they are directly relevant.
You just don't like the truth.
-
.
-
Precisely Carlymichelle.
All that is visible is a whitewash of her parents.
No more, no less. >@@(*&)
it makes you wonder why doesnt it
-
Rubbish, they are directly relevant.
You just don't like the truth.
Yes it is perfectly clear that Stephen25000 is once again trying to disrupt a thread and post off topic material. I hope moderators recognise this fact and remove these off topic posts.
I have opened a new thread to deal with the issues he raises.
-
Yes it is perfectly clear that Stephen25000 is once again trying to disrupt a thread and post off topic material. I hope moderators recognise this fact and remove these off topic posts.
I have opened a new thread to deal with the issues he raises.
This is not off topic, and not disruption.
However, my posts are directly relevant.
Why are you afraid of them ?
-
Madeleine McCann investigation police vet every phone call made from resort....
This is proper policing..proper investigation. Why didn't the PJ do this...because they were convinced the parents had done it
And who knows whether the PJ are right or wrong? Not you, for one. Not I, for another. Whilst something remains unresolved, both possibilities remain. If you're still clinging to SY's "persons of interest" line then you're really not up to speed on how police forces work.
-
And who knows whether the PJ are right or wrong? Not you, for one. Not I, for another. Whilst something remains unresolved, both possibilities remain. If you're still clinging to SY's "persons of interest" line then you're really not up to speed on how police forces work.
theres so many denial from the pros it makes you wonder why are they really in that much denial they think the mcanns did nothing wrong??
-
I have always thought it frankly crazy that people still think the editors of our red tops are just sitting at a phone waiting for Clarence to give them their headline for the day - ludicrous
The Express ( and remember this is the paper that paid out 1/2 mil + costs ) will print what they like - If Desmond thought that there was any chance that the McCann's were involved then believe me they would get both barrels
I do think that at least SY is getting down to some derailed forensic police work - phone records in todays digital world can reveal a lot - you would be surprised how many crims get caught by being careless with calls - even throw away phone numbers leave a trail
will this reveal the culprits - not sure but a little bit closer than last week
will this make any diff to the libel l trial - doubt it . The judge doesn't read the express or the forums !!
My own prediction on libel trial is that the McCann's will get some hollow victory but no dosh - nominal figure and then both parties walk off claiming victory
-
I have always thought it frankly crazy that people still think the editors of our red tops are just sitting at a phone waiting for Clarence to give them their headline for the day - ludicrous
The Express ( and remember this is the paper that paid out 1/2 mil + costs ) will print what they like - If Desmond thought that there was any chance that the McCann's were involved then believe me they would get both barrels
I do think that at least SY is getting down to some derailed forensic police work - phone records in todays digital world can reveal a lot - you would be surprised how many crims get caught by being careless with calls - even throw away phone numbers leave a trail
will this reveal the culprits - not sure but a little bit closer than last week
will this make any diff to the libel l trial - doubt it . The judge doesn't read the express or the forums !!
My own prediction on libel trial is that the McCann's will get some hollow victory but no dosh - nominal figure and then both parties walk off claiming victory
Excellent post.
I am not sure I agree with your prediction about the trial but am wholly in agreement with your depiction of the idea of Mitchell dictating to the press as madness.
-
And who knows whether the PJ are right or wrong? Not you, for one. Not I, for another. Whilst something remains unresolved, both possibilities remain. If you're still clinging to SY's "persons of interest" line then you're really not up to speed on how police forces work.
You mean the bungled investgation led by the bent cop
-
You mean the bungled investgation led by the bent cop
Here we go again.
Prove it was a bungled investigation.
For goodness sake, it wasn't only Amaral who believed her parents covered up what happened to Madeleine.
-
Here we go again.
Prove it was a bungled investigation.
For goodness sake, it wasn't only Anaral who believed her parents covered up what happened to Madeleine.
Anaral....is that a freudian slip
-
In regards to the OP, any new information can only be a good thing. Though waiting till the 14th will be hard, the suspense is already killing me!
I'm not going to read too much in to the timing of this, in just the same way as I won't read too much in to the libel trail being postpones on the day Dr Mccann wanted to testify. Without concrete evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is probably the right one.
I would like to know what usual practice is regarding information in a missing person case. Is it normal to divulge leads like this? Is this case so unusual that normal practice doesn't apply?
-
I have always thought it frankly crazy that people still think the editors of our red tops are just sitting at a phone waiting for Clarence to give them their headline for the day - ludicrous
Interesting choice of word... "ludicrous". Anyhow, the McCann media machine knows they can get a story in the press when they need to. Why this surprises anyone is, in itself, surprising. The timing of this release is not in the slightest bit accidental.
The Express ( and remember this is the paper that paid out 1/2 mil + costs ) will print what they like - If Desmond thought that there was any chance that the McCann's were involved then believe me they would get both barrels
No they wouldn't. Not until/unless they could prove it. "thought that" is beyond doubt, I think he thinks they're both in it up to their eyeballs. Will he print it? not a chance in hell until there is more evidence/proof he can use to defend himself.
I do think that at least SY is getting down to some derailed forensic police work - phone records in todays digital world can reveal a lot - you would be surprised how many crims get caught by being careless with calls - even throw away phone numbers leave a trail
Stupid crims get caught this way, yes. All we have to hope is that said stupid crims made some revealing phone calls/text messages and, more to the point, that the collected evidence of said data is admissible in court. Sadly this is not always the case and with Portugal's odd data collection laws, this may never happen.
Now, to get to what you were talking about - yes throwaway phones leave a trail. Not one that is helpful in any way, shape or form in 99% of cases, but if there was a huge increase in traffic from unregistered phones in the direct vicinity of Praia da Luz at the relevant time then that may indicate something even if it cannot be directly traced anywhere.
will this reveal the culprits - not sure but a little bit closer than last week
Yes indeed.
will this make any diff to the libel l trial - doubt it . The judge doesn't read the express or the forums !!
It can't make any difference to the libel trial! Talk sense. "Stop the trial! The McCanns have made a press release!"
My own prediction on libel trial is that the McCann's will get some hollow victory but no dosh - nominal figure and then both parties walk off claiming victory
It's a possibility that the book could be ruled to have infringed on their civil rights, I agree. There is no way in a month of Sundays that you can separate out the damage they caused themselves from the alleged damage caused by the book alone, nor quantify it.
-
You mean the bungled investgation led by the bent cop
Why was it bungled. Why is Amaral bent? What is your evidence for either claim?
-
Anaral....is that a freudian slip
No.
Don't you know 'm and n' are next to each other on the keyboard. 8((()*/
-
You can notice what you like. It is frankly none of your business.
As for the joke being on me. The very fact that you have clearly not yet understood the joke stands your claim upon its head.
I am finding you more remarkable by the day Gilet. After all the abuse you rolled out yesterday you have the audacity to now turn round and say it was a joke?? I'm afraid my dear you have let yourself down very badly.
-
Interesting choice of word... "ludicrous". Anyhow, the McCann media machine knows they can get a story in the press when they need to. Why this surprises anyone is, in itself, surprising. The timing of this release is not in the slightest bit accidental.
Why is the choice of word, "ludicrous" so interesting to you?
Just a shame that you have posted no evidence of your speculation about this being non-accidental timing and that the McCanns control the media in the way you suggest. Is there any?
No they wouldn't. Not until/unless they could prove it. "thought that" is beyond doubt, I think he thinks they're both in it up to their eyeballs. Will he print it? not a chance in hell until there is more evidence/proof he can use to defend himself.
Again pure speculation on your part. You have no idea what anyone in any newspaper thinks. And you seem to forget that the Express is not the only paper posting about this and that other papers are still very gung-ho about making unsupported claims.
Stupid crims get caught this way, yes. All we have to hope is that said stupid crims made some revealing phone calls/text messages and, more to the point, that the collected evidence of said data is admissible in court. Sadly this is not always the case and with Portugal's odd data collection laws, this may never happen.
And yet it may happen. But if we followed your negativity there would be nothing to offer the court anyway. That would be more than a shame if such was indeed available and no-one had bothered to analyse the data.
Now, to get to what you were talking about - yes throwaway phones leave a trail. Not one that is helpful in any way, shape or form in 99% of cases, but if there was a huge increase in traffic from unregistered phones in the direct vicinity of Praia da Luz at the relevant time then that may indicate something even if it cannot be directly traced anywhere.
But if said unregistered phones suddenly turned up in London or Rotterdam or Berlin or some such place and local police were able to trace the calls to a location where a current suspect (for other reasons maybe) lived, then it could be a real breakthrough. Again your unwillingness (rather like the PJ) to go that extra mile for a missing little child would deny any such breakthrough before it even had the chance to exist.
Yes indeed.
It can't make any difference to the libel trial! Talk sense. "Stop the trial! The McCanns have made a press release!"
It's a possibility that the book could be ruled to have infringed on their civil rights, I agree. There is no way in a month of Sundays that you can separate out the damage they caused themselves from the alleged damage caused by the book alone, nor quantify it.
So you may believe, but you do not have a full grasp of the law or the experience of a senior judge so we should really wait and see what she decides shouldn't we instead of just guessing what might happen?
-
That is a hopeful sign and (I am afraid) quite a blow to those who are dedicated to denying the McCanns their due rights as the parents of a missing child.
Did Madeleine have rights?? The right to be properly looked after.....the right not to be abducted??
-
I am finding you more remarkable by the day Gilet. After all the abuse you rolled out yesterday you have the audacity to now turn round and say it was a joke?? I'm afraid my dear you have let yourself down very badly.
i reported his abuse to me to a mod did you see it?? in any other forum he would be kicked out going on and on about how i had a meltdown when i was 11 etc and other nasty stuff and crapping on about how he is educated etc well so am i!!! being disabled from birth doesnt mean im stupid and i think any nasty comments about disability should be banned i brought it up yes but he doesnt have to harrass me for it now im 34 not 11
-
I am finding you more remarkable by the day Gilet. After all the abuse you rolled out yesterday you have the audacity to now turn round and say it was a joke?? I'm afraid my dear you have let yourself down very badly.
That is simply not true. My reference to joke was in relation to the use of plurals in my post, a reflection on the incorrect addition of an 's' to the word 'kill' in Anne Guedes' original post, not to the content of the post as a whole.
I do not make posts as a joke, ever, though I may include jokes very occasionally within posts.
-
Did Madeleine have rights?? The right to be properly looked after.....the right not to be abducted??
yes she did and her rights were violated
-
i reported his abuse to me to a mod did you see it?? in any other forum he would be kicked out going on and on about how i had a meltdown when i was 11 etc and other nasty stuff and crapping on about how he is educated etc well so am i!!! being disabled from birth doesnt mean im stupid and i think any nasty comments abput disability should be banend i brought it up yes but he doesnt have to harrass me for it now im 34 not 11
Ah! would that be the non-abuse which consisted entirely of information which you had posted previously?
And would that be the non-abuse I posted in direct reply to the abuse you initiated against me?
And could you point out where in any of my posts I have referred in any way to your disability or to that of anyone else for that matter?
-
reported to moderator you have no f..king idea about disabilities its ignorant people like you who make the disabled community afraid to go out now f..k off you are on ignore permanatly kiss my ass.sorry mods but i have had enough of this persons nastyness and ignorance
noted
-
noted
sorry about my swearing angelo i hope i dont get banned i was just angry and frustrated i couldnt sit back and say nothing
-
yes she did and her rights were violated
And they still are being violated. While mummy and daddy wrap themselves up in sanctimonious cotton wool a youngster is out there somewhere totally oblivious that she has been forgotten.
But on the other hand she had the right to a decent funeral.
-
Did Madeleine have rights?? The right to be properly looked after.....the right not to be abducted??
Of course she had rights.
And as you well know the McCanns have expressed their regrets as to their poor decision in using the checking system they did.
But your inability to look beyond that is very sad.
Are you denying that the parents also have rights or do you think that one mistaken decision to implement those checks forever denies them any rights?
And far more importantly are you trying to suggest that Madeleine no longer has rights. The rights being begged for by her parents for a proper and complete investigation into her disappearance.
Scotland Yard are working on this case because Madeleine's parents begged for a review as part of their rights and their child's rights and now support this inquiry. Would you deny the child that inquiry or what is your actual point with regard to the news in the OP?
Do you support the SY investigation or not?
-
Carly, you chose to share with forum land information about your disability and personal life, no one asked you to supply this info.
I am sure you're not the only poster who is disabled or suffers health issues in their daily life. Maybe there are posters among us who have suffered from neglect/abuse/painful memories etc. whilst children but have not felt the need to share this private information with people from the internet who they have never met.
Most disabled people like to be as independent as they can and I'm sure they don't think their disability gives them the right to abuse people and not expect the same in return.
I also know that most disabled people do not like too much sympathy from friends and family let alone able bodied strangers.
Stop playing the sympathy card.
-
And they still are being violated. While mummy and daddy wrap themselves up in sanctimonious cotton wool a youngster is out there somewhere totally oblivious that she has been forgotten.
But on the other hand she had the right to a decent funeral.
There is no proof that Madeleine, who you disgustingly wish to consign to a grave, is dead.
Madeleine McCann deserves a proper investigation, one that follows up all the leads which the PJ ignored.
It is not her parents who have begged for this review and who are fully supporting the Inquiry or Scotland Yard who are violating Madeleine's rights but people like Amaral and yourself who without any proof at all wish to consign the child to her grave. I find that quite disgusting, personally.
-
Interesting choice of word... "ludicrous". Anyhow, the McCann media machine knows they can get a story in the press when they need to. Why this surprises anyone is, in itself, surprising. The timing of this release is not in the slightest bit accidental.
No they wouldn't. Not until/unless they could prove it. "thought that" is beyond doubt, I think he thinks they're both in it up to their eyeballs. Will he print it? not a chance in hell until there is more evidence/proof he can use to defend himself.
Stupid crims get caught this way, yes. All we have to hope is that said stupid crims made some revealing phone calls/text messages and, more to the point, that the collected evidence of said data is admissible in court. Sadly this is not always the case and with Portugal's odd data collection laws, this may never happen.
Now, to get to what you were talking about - yes throwaway phones leave a trail. Not one that is helpful in any way, shape or form in 99% of cases, but if there was a huge increase in traffic from unregistered phones in the direct vicinity of Praia da Luz at the relevant time then that may indicate something even if it cannot be directly traced anywhere.
Yes indeed.
It can't make any difference to the libel trial! Talk sense. "Stop the trial! The McCanns have made a press release!"
It's a possibility that the book could be ruled to have infringed on their civil rights, I agree. There is no way in a month of Sundays that you can separate out the damage they caused themselves from the alleged damage caused by the book alone, nor quantify it.
I honestly think you give the " McCann media machine " a bit too much credit - they have appeared in the press pretty much on a consistent basis for the past 6 years - mainly because this is still a big story it is why you and I and others are all still on forums discussing it - I bet the next Express headline will be as much as a surprise to them as us. I would have thought that that SY are leading the agenda now might have a bit to do with the news agenda that whatever the McCann's want to see in the newspapers - anyway as we both agree this will not affect the libel trial ( I did agree so not sure why you were urging me to talk sense )
The tabloids could turn on the couple in an instance - they don't have to prove they did it - thsy could still write anti headlines if that was their whim regardless of what the PR wants - they do not have control of the tabloid never had never will
The point about throw away phones is not about who owned the phone it is about calls to it and then calls to that no - complex software can now churn out stats and look at patterns of calls - it is how many anti terrorist work is done. If certain no's crop up or are linked to calls/no's made from the area it will show - it is pretty painstaking work and why drug dealers have multiple sims and then use them once and throw away - but even then mistakes can be made -
-
i reported his abuse to me to a mod did you see it?? in any other forum he would be kicked out going on and on about how i had a meltdown when i was 11 etc and other nasty stuff and crapping on about how he is educated etc well so am i!!! being disabled from birth doesnt mean im stupid and i think any nasty comments about disability should be banned i brought it up yes but he doesnt have to harrass me for it now im 34 not 11
But it was not me who told the forum about your meltdown aged 11 and your being at home aged 34. It was YOU.
I merely posted that same information back as a reply to the clear abuse you posted about me.
And I made absolutely no mention of disability as it was utterly irrelevant to the point I was making.
-
There is no proof that Madeleine, who you disgustingly wish to consign to a grave, is dead.
Madeleine McCann deserves a proper investigation, one that follows up all the leads which the PJ ignored.
It is not her parents who have begged for this review and who are fully supporting the Inquiry or Scotland Yard who are violating Madeleine's rights but people like Amaral and yourself who without any proof at all wish to consign the child to her grave. I find that quite disgusting, personally.
So gilet, what is the limit in terms of time , money and other resources to this investigation ?
How many more years ?
How many decades ?
As to the PJ, for the umpteenth time, they found NOT ONE IOTA OF EVIDENCE OF ABDUCTION. >@@(*&)
-
So gilet, what is the limit in terms of time , money and other resources to this investigation ?
How many more years ?
How many decades ?
As to the PJ, for the umpteenth time, they found NOT ONE IOTA OF EVIDENCE OF ABDUCTION. >@@(*&)
here in australia you are declared dead after 7 years something like that
-
There is no proof that Madeleine, who you disgustingly wish to consign to a grave, is dead.
Madeleine McCann deserves a proper investigation, one that follows up all the leads which the PJ ignored.
It is not her parents who have begged for this review and who are fully supporting the Inquiry or Scotland Yard who are violating Madeleine's rights but people like Amaral and yourself who without any proof at all wish to consign the child to her grave. I find that quite disgusting, personally.
Whilst I agree further investigation is necessary, I can't help but think that the releasing of this information by SY at least implies that Madeleine is no longer alive.
-
There is no proof that Madeleine, who you disgustingly wish to consign to a grave, is dead.
Madeleine McCann deserves a proper investigation, one that follows up all the leads which the PJ ignored.
It is not her parents who have begged for this review and who are fully supporting the Inquiry or Scotland Yard who are violating Madeleine's rights but people like Amaral and yourself who without any proof at all wish to consign the child to her grave. I find that quite disgusting, personally.
These are just slogans, gilet. Why aren't you, and the mass media, asking why this phone analysis wasn't done five years ago?
-
Of course she had rights.
And as you well know the McCanns have expressed their regrets as to their poor decision in using the checking system they did.
And there we have it. McCann supporter/sympathist/apologist excuse myth no. 1 written in letters of fire inside their skulls.
"Expressed their regrets". It's not like they're exactly taking responsibility for it, is it? And what about "We have been advised that legally our behaviour was well within the bounds of responsible parenting" and "but at the time, we felt our actions were responsible" ?
The bloody McCanns have never, NEVER taken responsibility for what they did. It's always someone else's fault. "how could we expect a nasty abductor..." there IS no proof of an abductor you halfwits, all we have is a missing child. Even if things did happen the way you say, then an abductor among a dozen other dangerous things is exactly what you can expect from an unlocked apartment a significant distance from where you are currently enjoying yourselves. Give me strength. And you - you people who support them and claim you're protecting their right to not be abused, etc. you're as bad as they are in your excuses and apologist posts on their behalf mentioning decades-old habits in Butlins as a reason why the McCanns were perfectly sensible and loving parents to persistently abandon their children night after night in a strange location.
I don't know what twisted morals you have to try and make it sound like you're the ones who are whiter than white and those of us that just want the bloody McCanns to stand up and be counted and unequivocally take responsibility for all their current ills are the bad guys.
-
There's been numerous headlines like this over the years that fizzled out to nothing so it's difficult to believe anything the mainstream media say now.
The exception being the bit about Crimewatch. I don't understand how things work so I hope I'm forgiven if I sound silly. I thought Crimewatch aired unsolved cases to bring hardly known cases to the forefront because the police have run out of leads or ideas and need the help of the public? Yet according to the mainstream Scotland Yard still have leads? The McCann's have had a lot of coverage over the years that I can't see there being anyone left who doesn't know what Madeleine looks like or what the McCann's say happened so I wonder what can be offered that hasn't already been covered.
If they get Jeremy Wilkins involved then maybe the puzzle of who was standing where will be solved at least. Also Jeremy Wilkins said he saw a woman in purple outside an apartment when he first took his son out in the buggy (note to DCI … I haven't stated any times lol). In a later statement he identifies the woman in purple as being Jane Tanner. He also says he saw a man in combat clothing with his blonde raster style hair tied back. As far as I'm aware those two items haven't been explored so Jeremy Wilkins involvement is important. Or has the man with his hair tied back been identified now?
-
And there we have it. McCann supporter/sympathist/apologist excuse myth no. 1 written in letters of fire inside their skulls.
"Expressed their regrets". It's not like they're exactly taking responsibility for it, is it? And what about "We have been advised that legally our behaviour was well within the bounds of responsible parenting" and "but at the time, we felt our actions were responsible" ?
The bloody McCanns have never, NEVER taken responsibility for what they did. It's always someone else's fault. "how could we expect a nasty abductor..." there IS no proof of an abductor you halfwits, all we have is a missing child. Even if things did happen the way you say, then an abductor among a dozen other dangerous things is exactly what you can expect from an unlocked apartment a significant distance from where you are currently enjoying yourselves. Give me strength. And you - you people who support them and claim you're protecting their right to not be abused, etc. you're as bad as they are in your excuses and apologist posts on their behalf mentioning decades-old habits in Butlins as a reason why the McCanns were perfectly sensible and loving parents to persistently abandon their children night after night in a strange location.
I don't know what twisted morals you have to try and make it sound like you're the ones who are whiter than white and those of us that just want the bloody McCanns to stand up and be counted and unequivocally take responsibility for all their current ills are the bad guys.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
-
And there we have it. McCann supporter/sympathist/apologist excuse myth no. 1 written in letters of fire inside their skulls.
"Expressed their regrets". It's not like they're exactly taking responsibility for it, is it? And what about "We have been advised that legally our behaviour was well within the bounds of responsible parenting" and "but at the time, we felt our actions were responsible" ?
The bloody McCanns have never, NEVER taken responsibility for what they did. It's always someone else's fault. "how could we expect a nasty abductor..." there IS no proof of an abductor you halfwits, all we have is a missing child. Even if things did happen the way you say, then an abductor among a dozen other dangerous things is exactly what you can expect from an unlocked apartment a significant distance from where you are currently enjoying yourselves. Give me strength. And you - you people who support them and claim you're protecting their right to not be abused, etc. you're as bad as they are in your excuses and apologist posts on their behalf mentioning decades-old habits in Butlins as a reason why the McCanns were perfectly sensible and loving parents to persistently abandon their children night after night in a strange location.
I don't know what twisted morals you have to try and make it sound like you're the ones who are whiter than white and those of us that just want the bloody McCanns to stand up and be counted and unequivocally take responsibility for all their current ills are the bad guys.
best post ever you said it all!!!!
-
And there we have it. McCann supporter/sympathist/apologist excuse myth no. 1 written in letters of fire inside their skulls.
"Expressed their regrets". It's not like they're exactly taking responsibility for it, is it? And what about "We have been advised that legally our behaviour was well within the bounds of responsible parenting" and "but at the time, we felt our actions were responsible" ?
The bloody McCanns have never, NEVER taken responsibility for what they did. It's always someone else's fault. "how could we expect a nasty abductor..." there IS no proof of an abductor you halfwits, all we have is a missing child. Even if things did happen the way you say, then an abductor among a dozen other dangerous things is exactly what you can expect from an unlocked apartment a significant distance from where you are currently enjoying yourselves. Give me strength. And you - you people who support them and claim you're protecting their right to not be abused, etc. you're as bad as they are in your excuses and apologist posts on their behalf mentioning decades-old habits in Butlins as a reason why the McCanns were perfectly sensible and loving parents to persistently abandon their children night after night in a strange location.
I don't know what twisted morals you have to try and make it sound like you're the ones who are whiter than white and those of us that just want the bloody McCanns to stand up and be counted and unequivocally take responsibility for all their current ills are the bad guys.
Actually they have taken responsibility for it. Have you not even bothered to listen to the interviews where they have done precisely that?
Your post is a tirade of abuse towards the parents of a missing child and do you and other [ censored word] with you absolutely no credit whatsoever.
That you cannot see the absolute nastiness in your own post, the damming of the parents of a missing child, the loathsome abusive reference to everyone who disagrees with your rant as "halfwits", your complete ignorance of the fact that the very checking regime used by the McCanns is still today in use in holiday resorts, your complete inability to move on and arrive in 2013 where there is still a search for Madeleine McCann going because her parents begged for it to happen...
All those factors within your post are the perfect example of how anti McCann posters think and behave.
You are doing yourself no favours by demonstrating this to everyone who reads here.
This thread is about hope.
This thread is about the positive moves being made by the UK police force you derogatively call a 'joke'.
This thread is about missing Madeleine McCann and the possibility that we may discover what happened to her, who took her from that apartment in PDL.
And you post a nasty negative tirade of abuse both to the parents whose desperate pleas where necessary to force this investigation into being and you post abuse to fellow posters who wish to support those parents in their hope that Madeleine may be found and justice be achieved for her.
Honestly, I am totally disgusted by the content of your post.
-
Indeed they did. By ignoring so many potential leads such as the one offered to the PJ by the Swiss via Interpol in early September 2007 the Portuguese authorities definitely compromised themselves in this case much to the detriment of justice and of course to the poor little girl, Madeleine at the heart of the case.
Thankfully SY are now making up for these mistakes by the PT Police.
This lead was already looked into and the Swiss police had been contacted. They Swiss concluded that there was no connection between the cases and informed the authorities accordingly. Why do they keep bringing up the same stories time and time again? Trying to distract from the disastrous court case here in LIsbon and maybe trying to influence it.
-
Actually they have taken responsibility for it. Have you not even bothered to listen to the interviews where they have done precisely that?
Your post is a tirade of abuse towards the parents of a missing child and do you and other [ censored word] with you absolutely no credit whatsoever.
That you cannot see the absolute nastiness in your own post, the damming of the parents of a missing child, the loathsome abusive reference to everyone who disagrees with your rant as "halfwits", your complete ignorance of the fact that the very checking regime used by the McCanns is still today in use in holiday resorts, your complete inability to move on and arrive in 2013 where there is still a search for Madeleine McCann going because her parents begged for it to happen...
All those factors within your post are the perfect example of how anti McCann posters think and behave.
You are doing yourself no favours by demonstrating this to everyone who reads here.
This thread is about hope.
This thread is about the positive moves being made by the UK police force you derogatively call a 'joke'.
This thread is about missing Madeleine McCann and the possibility that we may discover what happened to her, who took her from that apartment in PDL.
And you post a nasty negative tirade of abuse both to the parents whose desperate pleas where necessary to force this investigation into being and you post abuse to fellow posters who wish to support those parents in their hope that Madeleine may be found and justice be achieved for her.
Honestly, I am totally disgusted by the content of your post.
I've stepped in things left by dogs in the park whose opinion I care about more than yours.
You still persist in the absolute belief there was an abduction. This is not an opinion shared by all. If you could get that through your demonstrably thick skull then maybe we;d get somewhere.
Yes, there could have been an abduction. If there was, then the absence of the parents caused it. Nothing else, it was their fault. They owed a duty of care to Madeleine, they failed and now they are whining that everyone else should be helping them and looking. They would have a point IF and only of they ever did bother - as you erroneously state they already have - to admit their mistakes unequivocally, without wrapping in an "everyone does it" caveat. No, everyone does not do it. The VAST majority of the British public do not do it and do not believe the McCanns were responsible in doing so. Check out the comments on every media story that allows them (and if you're still going to persist in that insane pro myth that a handful of sceptics is responsible for the tidal wave of negative opinion they get then you're an even bigger fool than I think and that's saying something).
Now if there wasn't an abduction, which is equally likely and - in fact - logically MORE likely then this is where the problem lies. The parents, being the ones who naturally fall under most suspicion have a responsibility to cooperate (no, they haven't) and to assist the police in their enquiries (no, they haven't.) They also should work tirelessly (not expect others to do so on their behalf) to rule themselves out of suspicion so the police can go and concentrate on other lines of enquiry. That they failed to do so demonstrates why the PJ continued to look closely at them and their associates. Your assertion that the PJ were wrong to so do is ridiculous as you have no way of knowing if they are right or wrong and obviously they know far more than you.
You let your irrational hatred of the former coordinator get in the way of any grains of logic there may be left in your pink fluff-filled head and just assume that he's evil, corrupt, bent, disgraced and, most importantly, wrong just because his opinion differs from yours. You are displaying a simple tribal response to a perceived threat to your beliefs and reacting like a fundamentalist.
I'm glad you're disgusted by my post. Honestly I am. People like you make me utterly sick and if I'm upsetting you and your cronies then I'm doing something very, very right.
-
Thankfully SY are now making up for these mistakes by the PT Police.
And who pray tell is making up for SY's mistakes?
-
This lead was already looked into and the Swiss police had been contacted. They Swiss concluded that there was no connection between the cases and informed the authorities accordingly. Why do they keep bringing up the same stories time and time again? Trying to distract from the disastrous court case here in LIsbon and maybe trying to influence it.
Do you have a reference for that conclusion by the Swiss. Only earlier this year a newspaper posted that the matter was actually ignored by the Portuguese when the Swiss informed them about it via Interpol?
-
I've stepped in things left by dogs in the park whose opinion I care about more than yours.
You still persist in the absolute belief there was an abduction. This is not an opinion shared by all. If you could get that through your demonstrably thick skull then maybe we;d get somewhere.
Yes, there could have been an abduction. If there was, then the absence of the parents caused it. Nothing else, it was their fault. They owed a duty of care to Madeleine, they failed and now they are whining that everyone else should be helping them and looking. They would have a point IF and only of they ever did bother - as you erroneously state they already have - to admit their mistakes unequivocally, without wrapping in an "everyone does it" caveat. No, everyone does not do it. The VAST majority of the British public do not do it and do not believe the McCanns were responsible in doing so. Check out the comments on every media story that allows them (and if you're still going to persist in that insane pro myth that a handful of sceptics is responsible for the tidal wave of negative opinion they get then you're an even bigger fool than I think and that's saying something).
Now if there wasn't an abduction, which is equally likely and - in fact - logically MORE likely then this is where the problem lies. The parents, being the ones who naturally fall under most suspicion have a responsibility to cooperate (no, they haven't) and to assist the police in their enquiries (no, they haven't.) They also should work tirelessly (not expect others to do so on their behalf) to rule themselves out of suspicion so the police can go and concentrate on other lines of enquiry. That they failed to do so demonstrates why the PJ continued to look closely at them and their associates. Your assertion that the PJ were wrong to so do is ridiculous as you have no way of knowing if they are right or wrong and obviously they know far more than you.
You let your irrational hatred of the former coordinator get in the way of any grains of logic there may be left in your pink fluff-filled head and just assume that he's evil, corrupt, bent, disgraced and, most importantly, wrong just because his opinion differs from yours. You are displaying a simple tribal response to a perceived threat to your beliefs and reacting like a fundamentalist.
I'm glad you're disgusted by my post. Honestly I am. People like you make me utterly sick and if I'm upsetting you and your cronies then I'm doing something very, very right.
hit the nail on the head the pros dont like being told the truth do they
-
And who pray tell is making up for SY's mistakes?
Can you point to any mistakes they have made in this case?
Do, please, list them for us.
-
Can you point to any mistakes they have made in this case?
Do, please, list them for us.
Never mind mistakes...what the hell have they achieved to date in the case except to spend countless £ millions on a ghost.
-
Madeleine McCann investigation police vet every phone call made from resort....
This is proper policing..proper investigation. Why didn't the PJ do this...because they were convinced the parents had done it
The PJ asked to look into the phone calls but the judge in the court in Evora did not allow it for privacy reasons.
-
As a new member you might not be aware that we operate a points based warning system. You might also not have noticed that the member concerned has already been warned as can be seen by the indicator immediately under his username.
Yes think so!!
-
Can you point to any mistakes they have made in this case?
Do, please, list them for us.
One big glaring mistake SY has made so far is that they have been giving press conferences to let the world know what they plan on doing so that any possible perpetrator will have the chance of fleeing or covering up his tracks. Never saw a police force giving a run by run account of their investigation like this. It makes me believe that they have zilch and want desperately to justify the money spent.
-
Yes, I'm new. Only joined yesterday in fact. But I have followed the forum for a couple of weeks and must say at times it is more akin to a school playground.
I mean seriously, do we all really have to pretend to be SO offended when someone calls someone else a name?
Personally I thought Carly had a point as the comment was a little underhand, but I don't think she or Gillet need anyone to leap to their defence as they are both grownups.
N
-
I've stepped in things left by dogs in the park whose opinion I care about more than yours.
Why do you think posting such vile abuse is necessary? Do you really think it makes you look clever or better than me that you post such nastiness to fellow posters? My view is that readers see your personality coming through such nastiness, not mine. So I never worry about such uncalled-for nastiness, In fact I have come to expect certain posters to highlight their own inadequacies by their reliance on it.
You still persist in the absolute belief there was an abduction. This is not an opinion shared by all. If you could get that through your demonstrably thick skull then maybe we;d get somewhere.
You are now totally misrepresenting my position. I have stated over and over but you refuse to read properly, that I believe there is neither proof of abduction, nor of Madeleine being dead. No-one knows what happens. I suspect you have misinterpreted the statement I made about someone taking Madeleine from the apartment as meaning abduction but a little thought would tell you that dead or alive she was taken by someone from the apartment unless she walked herself and was later taken from the street. By repeating this same erroneous allegation about me when I have already corrected you on this forum numerous times, you are showing either a silly obstinacy or some kind of problem with understanding. I don't know which. By being so disgustingly abusive towards me in the same paragraph, once again you tell the reader just how nasty a person you really are.
Yes, there could have been an abduction. If there was, then the absence of the parents caused it. Nothing else, it was their fault. They owed a duty of care to Madeleine, they failed and now they are whining that everyone else should be helping them and looking. They would have a point IF and only of they ever did bother - as you erroneously state they already have - to admit their mistakes unequivocally, without wrapping in an "everyone does it" caveat. No, everyone does not do it. The VAST majority of the British public do not do it and do not believe the McCanns were responsible in doing so. Check out the comments on every media story that allows them (and if you're still going to persist in that insane pro myth that a handful of sceptics is responsible for the tidal wave of negative opinion they get then you're an even bigger fool than I think and that's saying something).
You really have a nasty turn of phrase don't you. To describe the heartfelt pleas of the parent of a missing little girl as "whining", like the rest of your nasty post, does you absolutely no credit at all. How nasty such comments appear to readers here?
As for your insistence that the McCanns have not admitted their responsibilty in the case, then you are simply refusing to accept what those who have taken the trouble to listen carefully to the McCanns have seen. I have checked out the comments on such sites as you mention and find the comments, just like many of yours, to be quite disgusting. But unlike you I know from having witnessed the calls to arms on various anti forums and on Twitter that the postings on these sites and news reports are indeed coordinated and do not represent the vast majority of the population. Other evidence of that is the fact that no Anti McCann petition has ever got more than a couple of thousand signatures.
Now if there wasn't an abduction, which is equally likely and - in fact - logically MORE likely then this is where the problem lies. The parents, being the ones who naturally fall under most suspicion have a responsibility to cooperate (no, they haven't) and to assist the police in their enquiries (no, they haven't.) They also should work tirelessly (not expect others to do so on their behalf) to rule themselves out of suspicion so the police can go and concentrate on other lines of enquiry. That they failed to do so demonstrates why the PJ continued to look closely at them and their associates. Your assertion that the PJ were wrong to so do is ridiculous as you have no way of knowing if they are right or wrong and obviously they know far more than you.
They were sensibly advised by lawyers not to cooperate with the PJ who in September 2007 were ignoring all possibilities but the parents. That was not an investigation into the disappearance at all.
But you are unable to accept that the parents have since then begged for a review and are now as a result of that review cooperating fully with a properly competent police force which is investigating all possibilities and they are about to undertake a reconstruction as well.
That you should suggest these two parents have not worked tirelessly is simply ludicrous. Have you not followed the case and seen their incessant activity?
I have no idea where you have come up with the notion that I have ever said the PJ should not have investigated the parents. They should have done so but they should have also left open all other options. By mid July they were basing their entire case (as Amaral tells us) on the dogs and we all know how badly confused Amarals' team was over the forensics which did not back up any of the alerts regarding the potential death of Madeleine. The error of that judgement was proven by the AG report.
You let your irrational hatred of the former coordinator get in the way of any grains of logic there may be left in your pink fluff-filled head and just assume that he's evil, corrupt, bent, disgraced and, most importantly, wrong just because his opinion differs from yours. You are displaying a simple tribal response to a perceived threat to your beliefs and reacting like a fundamentalist.
Your inabilty to differentiate between my logical and reasoned and completely accurate descriptions of Amaral's criminal behaviour, his civil offences against his own brother, his threats to his own wife and his incompetence in the McCann case which eventually resulted in him being thrown off the case with some kind of hatred is a great shame. I don't assume anything about him. I read the proof of his actions.
You are clearly projecting your own reactions about the McCanns who are guilty of no crime, who have not been charged with any crime and who are not even suspects in this crime onto me. I am sorry for that but I understand your frustration that Amaral is the proven criminal while the McCanns are simply parents who are doing their best to find their missing child and are fully cooperating with the police in that activity.
I'm glad you're disgusted by my post. Honestly I am. People like you make me utterly sick and if I'm upsetting you and your cronies then I'm doing something very, very right.
That last comment does not deserve a response other to repeat that it says more about you than it ever will about me. Your need to upset people is quite sickening. The more you post in that manner the more you expose the inadequacies of the anti McCann case.
-
hit the nail on the head the pros dont like being told the truth do they
Another nasty and uncalled for comment about a whole group of other people. It would seem your only purpose for being in this forum is to attack everyone who disagrees with you with your spiteful one-liners. Maybe you should read the forum rules and at least make some attempt to contribute something meaningful to debate instead of this tedious repetitious abuse of other posters.
-
Yes, I'm new. Only joined yesterday in fact. But I have followed the forum for a couple of weeks and must say at times it is more akin to a school playground.
I mean seriously, do we all really have to pretend to be SO offended when someone calls someone else a name?
Personally I thought Carly had a point as the comment was a little underhand, but I don't think she or Gillet need anyone to leap to their defence as they are both grownups.
N
yep i can speak for myself and swearing is not a sin not as muc has leaving 3 babies alone and saying it was a mistake and everybody does it
-
Can we keep on the topic, please? I hate coming in on a thread and having to scroll down for pages because people are calling each other names.
-
Never mind mistakes...what the hell have they achieved to date in the case except to spend countless £ millions on a ghost.
So you cannot tell us about any of these mistakes which you said existed and you now want us all to forget you posted about them. Did you make the idea of SY mistakes up or can you actually describe any?
As for what they have achieved. Firstly and most importantly they have told us that they have eliminated the McCanns and their friends as suspects. That is major progress in the case. They have told us that they are focussing on stranger abduction. Having narrowed the search down that is clear progress. They have told us that they have persuaded the McCanns to take part in a reconstruction. That is clear progress and something the PJ could not persuade them to do because of their clearly narrow focus.
And once again you cannot help being rude about the missing child, Madeleine McCann, can you. By referring to her as a ghost, you show your own nastiness towards that child. Such rudeness towards a missing child by a supposed "moderator" here does the forum no credit at all.
-
yep i can speak for myself and swearing is not a sin not as muc has leaving 3 babies alone and saying it was a mistake and everybody does it
you really are pathetic why are you here girl ? if the mccanns left their kids quote is all you can add then zzzzzzzzzzzzz boring!!
-
He just happens to be a she!! @)(++(*
And how would you happen to know that? Oh dear, are you certain of that?
-
I thought that this site was above the petty insults and name calling and was a place where some robust debate could take place -
I appreciate that at least here you can have a debate unlike other sites where you have to tow the party line or be banned
Making personal attacks and calling groups of people halfwits seem to me to be just provocative in nature and goading a fight
-
So you cannot tell us about any of these mistakes which you said existed and you now want us all to forget you posted about them. Did you make the idea of SY mistakes up or can you actually describe any?
As for what they have achieved. Firstly and most importantly they have told us that they have eliminated the McCanns and their friends as suspects. That is major progress in the case. They have told us that they are focussing on stranger abduction. Having narrowed the search down that is clear progress. They have told us that they have persuaded the McCanns to take part in a reconstruction. That is clear progress and something the PJ could not persuade them to do because of their clearly narrow focus.
And once again you cannot help being rude about the missing child, Madeleine McCann, can you. By referring to her as a ghost, you show your own nastiness towards that child. Such rudeness towards a missing child by a supposed "moderator" here does the forum no credit at all.
Come on now, be reasonable. I think both sides can agree that the investigations carried out by all parties have been far from stellar. I mean 6 years on and we still don't know if she was abducted, murdered, wandered off or had an accident.
The UK force was helping out at the start as well. The whole thing has been a bit of a dogs dinner really ...
N
-
One big glaring mistake SY has made so far is that they have been giving press conferences to let the world know what they plan on doing so that any possible perpetrator will have the chance of fleeing or covering up his tracks. Never saw a police force giving a run by run account of their investigation like this. It makes me believe that they have zilch and want desperately to justify the money spent.
Seriously. You expect us to believe that your knowledge both of this particular case and police procedures in general is greater than that of 30 officers at SY (including some senior officers), and of the specialist team of people at SY who deal with press releases.
What expertise do you have in order to trash the behaviour of these experts? Do reveal.
Actually you have no idea why precisely the Met have told us what they have told us. You have no idea what their precise aims were. You simply wish to find some route to trashing the investigation.
I prefer, as I am sure most people do, to trust in the judgement of the cops on such matters rather than the amateurs here.
-
Your honour, I refer to exhibit 1:
Where is the call for a ban on Benita for abuse?
I'm sick to death of this persistent running around after the referee waving an imaginary card trying to get someone booked or sent off. It's getting faintly ridiculous now. The sanctimonious proselytising from the McCann supporters is getting tedious.
i will continue to say they left the children alone because they did and whatever befell maddie was due to that neglect and lack of care
-
Come on now, be reasonable. I think both sides can agree that the investigations carried out by all parties have been far from stellar. I mean 6 years on and we still don't know if she was abducted, murdered, wandered off or had an accident.
The UK force was helping out at the start as well. The whole thing has been a bit of a dogs dinner really ...
N
We know for a fact that the PJ investigation was not stellar but on what basis do you describe the SY investigation as such?
What errors can you suggest in the SY investigation to deserve your clear criticism?
-
Yes, I'm new. Only joined yesterday in fact. But I have followed the forum for a couple of weeks and must say at times it is more akin to a school playground.
I mean seriously, do we all really have to pretend to be SO offended when someone calls someone else a name?
Personally I thought Carly had a point as the comment was a little underhand, but I don't think she or Gillet need anyone to leap to their defence as they are both grownups.
N
They are indeed although one appears to be more grown up than the other. And they call us whinging Poms
-
Interesting new bits of information here.
Kate and Gerry McCann to appear on Crimewatch, as Scotland Yard combs Portugal mobile phone traffic
Friday 4 Oct 2013 10:10 am
The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are to make a television appeal on Crimewatch it has been announced, while British police attempt to deconstruct a substantial set of new material.
Scotland Yard is preparing to analyse the mobile phone traffic in the Praia da Luz region of Portugal, which was conducted at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance.
Detectives have said that this means anybody who was in the local area in or around May 3 2007 could be contacted by police and questioned about their whereabouts.
Most importantly, police can map the calls that were made at the exact time of the then three-year-old’s believed kidnap.
The fresh evidence comes as Kate and Gerry McCann prepare to appear live in the Crimewatch studio, in a segment which will feature a reconstruction of Madeleine’s disappearance in addition to pre-recorded interviews with the couple.
‘It’s substantially different. It’s not just a bland ‘can you help us’ appeal, there is some different material and a different understanding to be presented,’ assistant commissioner Mark Rowley of the Metropolitan Police, said about the broadcast.
The programme will air on Monday October 14, while similar appeals are expected to be broadcast in Holland, Germany and possibly Ireland in the days following.
The log of telephone numbers that British police will now comb through has previously been held by Portuguese authorities, but had not been as closely scrutinised.
‘[Kate and Gerry’s] forthcoming appearance on Crimewatch is an important stage in [the] ongoing process’, said the McCanns’ spokesman, Clarence Mitchell.
‘Naturally, they hope it will lead to information that will provide the breakthrough to finding Madeleine.’
http://metro.co.uk/2013/10/04/kate-and-gerry-mccann-to-appear-on-crimewatch-as-scotland-yard-combs-portugal-mobile-phone-traffic-4134010/
-
i will continue to say they left the children alone because they did and whatever befell maddie was due to that neglect and lack of care
So far you have not managed to make any comments that I have noticed about the topic of this thread. Any chance you could comment on what the thread is actually about?
-
So far you have not managed to make any comments that I have noticed about the topic of this thread. Any chance you could comment on what the thread is actually about?
Can I start holding my breath yet gilet or are you too cowardly to admit you were wrong?
-
You utter hypocrite. You're persistently trashing the performance and actions of the PJ and the chief coordinator at the time, all of whom know WAAAAAAAY more about the case than you do.
There is nothing at all hypocritical in my posting.
I merely post facts about the ineptitude of the PJ in that case. Facts which even Amaral had to admit such as their lack of expertise in fingerprinting, such as the fact that the initial poor photofit was due to the fact that the PJ could not produce side on photofit images etc.
They may know more than me about the case. That does not make them perfect and beyond criticism when clear failings in their actions have been demonstrated.
-
We know for a fact that the PJ investigation was not stellar but on what basis do you describe the SY investigation as such?
What errors can you suggest in the SY investigation to deserve your clear criticism?
Because they have come up with nothing after spending millions. Literally a couple of 'persons of interest'. When you don't know what happened everyone in the area is a 'person of interest'. So they have identified three new people who happened to be there at the time (perhaps). Hardly stellar IMO
The investigation is at a dead end and going nowhere. Hence the need for tabloid coverage and TV shows. If they had anything of any value they would be investigating it but instead they are getting ready for crimewatch? Hardly stellar IMO.
They advertise to the world what they are doing via the media. IF they had anything of any worth then they would be investigating it - not doing the rounds of breakfast TV et al. Hardly stellar IMO
It has taken them 2 years to look at a bunch of 6 year old phone records. Wtf? What do they really expect to get from that? Oh this phone was in Porto and now it's in Germany but the owner is English - Maddie might be in Germany! Good police work? Hardly my friend the 'evidence' is so old now it is useless. Hardly stellar IMO
Perhaps you could tell me what is so darn GOOD about their investigation? What have they achieved in 2 years? How much further forward is the nation is learning the young girls fate?
N
-
Because they have come up with nothing after spending millions. Literally a couple of 'persons of interest'. When you don't know what happened everyone in the area is a 'person of interest'. So they have identified three new people who happened to be there at the time (perhaps). Hardly stellar IMO
The investigation is at a dead end and going nowhere. Hence the need for tabloid coverage and TV shows. If they had anything of any value they would be investigating it but instead they are getting ready for crimewatch? Hardly stellar IMO.
They advertise to the world what they are doing via the media. IF they had anything of any worth then they would be investigating it - not doing the rounds of breakfast TV et al. Hardly stellar IMO
It has taken them 2 years to look at a bunch of 6 year old phone records. Wtf? What do they really expect to get from that? Oh this phone was in Porto and now it's in Germany but the owner is English - Maddie might be in Germany! Good police work? Hardly my friend the 'evidence' is so old now it is useless. Hardly stellar IMO
Perhaps you could tell me what is so darn GOOD about their investigation? What have they achieved in 2 years? How much further forward is the nation is learning the young girls fate?
N
the thing is too IF maddie is alive she would not know her parents or family she would more then likley not speak english people who live in this fantasy land of her coming home into kate and gerrys arms like nothing had ever happned is so delsuional if maddie is found alive it will be traumatising for her all over again ( we would love maddie to be found alive but you know what i mean)
-
You've got in one C. Edwards. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Gilet is firmly entrenched in the Mccann camp, NO DOUBT AT ALL.
You really are failing to read and understand. Seriously, that does not surprise me at all.
I stand for justice and truth, not the McCanns per se. But as it is the McCanns who are not getting justice and truth then it is hardly surprising that I defend them more than Amaral who is very difficult to defend in any way at all as so much has been proven in both court and in his own book about him.
-
I honestly think you give the " McCann media machine " a bit too much credit - they have appeared in the press pretty much on a consistent basis for the past 6 years - mainly because this is still a big story it is why you and I and others are all still on forums discussing it - I bet the next Express headline will be as much as a surprise to them as us. I would have thought that that SY are leading the agenda now might have a bit to do with the news agenda that whatever the McCann's want to see in the newspapers - anyway as we both agree this will not affect the libel trial ( I did agree so not sure why you were urging me to talk sense )
The tabloids could turn on the couple in an instance - they don't have to prove they did it - thsy could still write anti headlines if that was their whim regardless of what the PR wants - they do not have control of the tabloid never had never will
The point about throw away phones is not about who owned the phone it is about calls to it and then calls to that no - complex software can now churn out stats and look at patterns of calls - it is how many anti terrorist work is done. If certain no's crop up or are linked to calls/no's made from the area it will show - it is pretty painstaking work and why drug dealers have multiple sims and then use them once and throw away - but even then mistakes can be made -
Interesting post. Thank you.
I thought the PJ had done a good job on that aspect and, judging by the report, it was no easy task.
Still, technology has moved on and more sophisticated software may well shed more light. I'm not even sure that the PJ had the most up-to-date software available at the time to work with.
I still believe that there were many fine officers doing the best they could in what seems to have been less than optimum conditions.
-
There is nothing at all hypocritical in my posting.
I merely post facts about the ineptitude of the PJ in that case. Facts which even Amaral had to admit such as their lack of expertise in fingerprinting, such as the fact that the initial poor photofit was due to the fact that the PJ could not produce side on photofit images etc.
They may know more than me about the case. That does not make them perfect and beyond criticism when clear failings in their actions have been demonstrated.
So you've never generically referred to the investigation as a whole as being bungled or inept. Or you've never referred to Amaral as being inept or bungling. You've just referred to "facts" alone? And you are happy to stand by your assertion that SY are doing a good job, even though we don't yet know all the facts?
-
There is nothing at all hypocritical in my posting.
I merely post facts about the ineptitude of the PJ in that case. Facts which even Amaral had to admit such as their lack of expertise in fingerprinting, such as the fact that the initial poor photofit was due to the fact that the PJ could not produce side on photofit images etc.
They may know more than me about the case. That does not make them perfect and beyond criticism when clear failings in their actions have been demonstrated.
If you can criticise the PJ I certainly have the right to criticise SY. It seems that the Met and other British police forces have their share of scandals lately and are hardly blameless when it comes to miscarriages of justice. BTW, which police force has never made a mistake in an investigation? As for the photofit, the PJ did not want to release it the but the McCanns and the British authorities put pressure on them to do it.
-
An old article I'd saved to back up my early point. I don't have a direct link I'm afraid.
20 May 2009
PJ Laboratory receives 24 thousand requests per year
by Joana de Belém
The PJ’s Scientific Police Laboratory (SPL) receives one hundred and fifty requests for tests per day, which sum up to two thousand every month. Last year, the SPL received 24 thousand requests. The waiting time “is high”, admits the director of the Scientific Police National Laboratory, where approximately two hundred people work. An “activity that faces the difficulty of the lack of resources and the response within useful time”, says Carlos Farinha.
Nevertheless, the same senior official, who spoke yesterday during the 4th National Congress for Criminology, in Oporto, noted that the Portuguese lab was rated, in an international study whose results were known last week, the sixth best among a total of 71 bodies.
Carlos Farinha also mentioned that the increase in television series like CSI creates some equivocations. “We’re not as good looking as they are, but the main difference is the time notion”, not only as far as test results are concerned but also concerning the data that investigators have access to. “Nobody accesses that much information at the simple touch of a button. Apart from that, if any policeman could access information in that manner, we’d have a big brother, a society without balance between justice and freedom”, the investigator stressed.
Today, at the Polícia Judiciária’s School, in Lisbon, a crime scene practises manual is launched, establishing rules on how to enter, how to mark the investigators’ passage, how to photograph and/or draw a crime scene, among other procedures. “The potentialities in the collection of a certain type of residues are incommensurably different today from what they were years ago”, said Carlos Farinha, according to whom “nowadays the level of collection of elements on location is scarily superior”. Hence, he adds, the need to “reorganise and think about the manner to proceed on a crime scene”.
When questioned about a possible connection between the launch of this manual and the allegedly careless manner how policemen entered, two years ago, into the room of Madeleine McCann – the little English girl that disappeared in the Algarve, in 2007 -, Farrinha asserts that “it’s a reducing perspective”. “I’m not associating this to anything at all”, he concluded.
Presently, the laboratory develops efforts to improve the photofits of missing persons, namely their adjustment to physiognomic changes that take place.
Still during the congress, inspector Jorge Duarte explained the change in the profile of the computer criminal. The first protagonists, in the 90s [the so-called hackers] “weren’t seen as criminals but rather as geniuses, were between 14 and 24 years old, students, generally middle class”. The “social profile has changed, the age has stretched to 34, it includes medium level professionals and re-offenders”, the member of the PJ’s High Technology Criminal Investigation unit explained, adding that, due to the easiness in escaping justice, the number of re-offenders tends to increase over time.
Maria Carneiro, a service chief at the Forensics Medicine Institute, mentioned the few cases of homicidal women. “Women are not as criminal in violent terms as men and the cases where they kill for pleasure are extremely rare”. When that happens, “those are cases of serious psychopathology and generally not imputable”, she concludes.
source: Diário de Notícias, 20.05.2009
-
There's been numerous headlines like this over the years that fizzled out to nothing so it's difficult to believe anything the mainstream media say now.
The exception being the bit about Crimewatch. I don't understand how things work so I hope I'm forgiven if I sound silly. I thought Crimewatch aired unsolved cases to bring hardly known cases to the forefront because the police have run out of leads or ideas and need the help of the public? Yet according to the mainstream Scotland Yard still have leads? The McCann's have had a lot of coverage over the years that I can't see there being anyone left who doesn't know what Madeleine looks like or what the McCann's say happened so I wonder what can be offered that hasn't already been covered.
If they get Jeremy Wilkins involved then maybe the puzzle of who was standing where will be solved at least. Also Jeremy Wilkins said he saw a woman in purple outside an apartment when he first took his son out in the buggy (note to DCI … I haven't stated any times lol). In a later statement he identifies the woman in purple as being Jane Tanner. He also says he saw a man in combat clothing with his blonde raster style hair tied back. As far as I'm aware those two items haven't been explored so Jeremy Wilkins involvement is important. Or has the man with his hair tied back been identified now?
Jacinta,
Jeremy Wilkins stated both of the above, in one statement, his rogatory. I've left the times on, as Jez mentions the media announcing the time, he met Gerry, when he was unsure.
Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time.
Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry'
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner. At the next crossing, I turned right and continued on down the hill. At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing. When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area. He also was in the WC but appeared to be a taking a long time. I do not remember if he was still in that place when I left. I did not see a woman in that zone. I had never before seen this man and did not see him after this.
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
He wasn't the only one that saw Rastas man! Supposedly identified. There is no proper statement from the Sperry's.
MICHAEL SPERREY
CLARE SPERREY
------ In the main reception (open 24h) of the Ocean Club, the signatory [undersigned] was able to observe a person with long hair, curly, blonde in colour, with camouflage shorts and green sweat-shirt, which fit the description of the suspect of the "Rastas", it being that I questioned the receptionist about him, who said that this individual and his wife are guests in the hotel and he has been tireless, since yesterday, in search of the missing girl. Attached are photocopies of their passports as well as the hotel registration form.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm#sperrey
-
An old article I'd saved to back up my early point. I don't have a direct link I'm afraid.
20 May 2009
PJ Laboratory receives 24 thousand requests per year
by Joana de Belém
Nevertheless, the same senior official, who spoke yesterday during the 4th National Congress for Criminology, in Oporto, noted that the Portuguese lab was rated, in an international study whose results were known last week, the sixth best among a total of 71 bodies.
source: Diário de Notícias, 20.05.2009
wow, 6 out of 71 is good. I would expect to see the US and UK in there and probably the Germans, Australians etc so they are doing well.
Makes you wonder what 71 is like though - a kids chemistry set and a magnifying glass 8)--))
N
-
Also, why would SY just limit themselves to the abduction theory? Any decent police force would look at all options, even the parents. Leicestershire police stated to the court during the hearing when the McCanns tried to get hold of their files: Although one or both of the parents may be innocent, no evidence has been found which eliminates them from the investigation.
-
Jerry Lawton @JerryLawton 3h
Madeleine #McCann parents have filmed pre-recorded segments for Crimewatch and will be live in studio
Jerry Lawton @JerryLawton 3h
Portuguese police has appointed team of 6 senior detectives based in Faro to assist Met 37-strong squad with Madeleine #McCann investigation
-
Holidaymakers from across the world who stayed in Praia da Luz in southern Portugal in May 2007 could receive a call from the officers to ask them what they were doing there at the time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10354466/Madeleine-McCann-detectives-appeal-for-help-from-31-countries-in-mobile-phone-trawl.html
@)(++(*
-
Holidaymakers from across the world who stayed in Praia da Luz in southern Portugal in May 2007 could receive a call from the officers to ask them what they were doing there at the time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10354466/Madeleine-McCann-detectives-appeal-for-help-from-31-countries-in-mobile-phone-trawl.html
@)(++(*
I'll believe it when I see it. So many of these stories just fizzle out and it is no coincidence that they are coming out now at the same time as the libel trial.
-
Jerry Lawton @JerryLawton 3h
Madeleine #McCann parents have filmed pre-recorded segments for Crimewatch and will be live in studio
Jerry Lawton @JerryLawton 3h
Portuguese police has appointed team of 6 senior detectives based in Faro to assist Met 37-strong squad with Madeleine #McCann investigation
Really good news that they are involving Portuguese detectives as well. It needs to remain a joint operation. Personally, for the first time in the last five years, I am hopeful of a breakthrough.
-
Really good news that they are involving Portuguese detectives as well. It needs to remain a joint operation. Personally, for the first time in the last five years, I am hopeful of a breakthrough.
It was a joint operation from the very beginning in 2007 and let's not forget that the British were the first to come up with the possibility that Madeleine was dead.
-
It was a joint operation from the very beginning in 2007 and let's not forget that the British were the first to come up with the possibility that Madeleine was dead.
She may well be dead, and I doubt Portuguese detectives didn't consider it a possibility after the first twenty-four hours, exactly as the British would have done.
-
I'll believe it when I see it. So many of these stories just fizzle out and it is no coincidence that they are coming out now at the same time as the libel trial.
I think those that believe sy will solve the case and find some scarlet pimpernel abductor are deluding themselves....sy will no doubt wind down the case and issue some kind of statement...then again...the unthnkable might happen....thry may find some evidence against the mccanns or their friends, who knows hey?
I just thought it was funny that article saying they would ask holidaymakers what they were doing there....err, on a holiday inspector plod,can i go now?
-
If you can criticise the PJ I certainly have the right to criticise SY. It seems that the Met and other British police forces have their share of scandals lately and are hardly blameless when it comes to miscarriages of justice. BTW, which police force has never made a mistake in an investigation? As for the photofit, the PJ did not want to release it the but the McCanns and the British authorities put pressure on them to do it.
Which photofit are you talking about?
-
wow, 6 out of 71 is good. I would expect to see the US and UK in there and probably the Germans, Australians etc so they are doing well.
Makes you wonder what 71 is like though - a kids chemistry set and a magnifying glass 8)--))
N
I'm not quite sure how the PJ’s Scientific Police Laboratory (SPL) achieved this rank. Hopefully, they'd got more funding by 2009.
It took me a while to realise that the SPL and the INML were different entities. The INML (which was responsible for the Portuguese side of the DNA analyses) seems to be very competent.
-
If you can criticise the PJ I certainly have the right to criticise SY. It seems that the Met and other British police forces have their share of scandals lately and are hardly blameless when it comes to miscarriages of justice. BTW, which police force has never made a mistake in an investigation? As for the photofit, the PJ did not want to release it the but the McCanns and the British authorities put pressure on them to do it.
Are you sure about that Montclair? Computer says no!
From the PJ
To: The Assistant Prosecutor
Public Ministry
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press
As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.
I enclose a model for divulgation.
With best compliments
The Coordinator of the Investigation.
G. Amaral
Letter from the Lagos Public Ministry
To: Portimao DIC
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by Means of the Media with Reference to the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
This letter serves to communicate to you that within the framework of what is laid down in Article 86 n? 5 of the CPP I authorise this police force to divulge the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann by means of the organs of the press with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts, in accordance with the press release model that was sent to us.
With best compliments,
Signed
The Deputy Prosecutor
Sandra Marques
-
Are you sure about that Montclair? Computer says no!
From the PJ
To: The Assistant Prosecutor
Public Ministry
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press
As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.
I enclose a model for divulgation.
With best compliments
The Coordinator of the Investigation.
G. Amaral
Letter from the Lagos Public Ministry
To: Portimao DIC
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by Means of the Media with Reference to the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
This letter serves to communicate to you that within the framework of what is laid down in Article 86 n? 5 of the CPP I authorise this police force to divulge the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann by means of the organs of the press with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts, in accordance with the press release model that was sent to us.
With best compliments,
Signed
The Deputy Prosecutor
Sandra Marques
So it was Amaral who asked for its release all along! Should have known he was lying again when he tried to say it was someone else!
-
Also, why would SY just limit themselves to the abduction theory? Any decent police force would look at all options, even the parents. Leicestershire police stated to the court during the hearing when the McCanns tried to get hold of their files: Although one or both of the parents may be innocent, no evidence has been found which eliminates them from the investigation.
do you honestly think that SY haven't done that - do you think that they have spent the last 2 years going through the whole case and haven't thought about the parents / friends . Looked at the statements and looked at the evidence - which will be a lot more detailed than the public see.
Any detective worth his salt in this case would have considered the parents - and then either stuck with it or moved on to other theories
-
Are you sure about that Montclair? Computer says no!
From the PJ
To: The Assistant Prosecutor
Public Ministry
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press
As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.
I enclose a model for divulgation.
With best compliments
The Coordinator of the Investigation.
G. Amaral
Letter from the Lagos Public Ministry
To: Portimao DIC
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by Means of the Media with Reference to the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
This letter serves to communicate to you that within the framework of what is laid down in Article 86 n? 5 of the CPP I authorise this police force to divulge the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann by means of the organs of the press with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts, in accordance with the press release model that was sent to us.
With best compliments,
Signed
The Deputy Prosecutor
Sandra Marques
That relates to a press release of Madeleines disappearance NOT a press release of any abductor e fit!!
which is what Montclair was talking about
-
do you honestly think that SY haven't done that - do you think that they have spent the last 2 years going through the whole case and haven't thought about the parents / friends . Looked at the statements and looked at the evidence - which will be a lot more detailed than the public see.
Any detective worth his salt in this case would have considered the parents - and then either stuck with it or moved on to other theories
Absolutely. The idea that they haven't looked at the parents yet is ridiculous. They will have looked at the parents before anything else. The reason they're trying to work their way through a list of 40 suspects (probably a list of known sex offenders) and all the phone data is because the parents have already been eliminated.
-
So it was Amaral who asked for its release all along! Should have known he was lying again when he tried to say it was someone else!
What are you talking about? When and where did he say it was someone else who did...er what
-
You really are failing to read and understand. Seriously, that does not surprise me at all.
I stand for justice and truth, not the McCanns per se. But as it is the McCanns who are not getting justice and truth then it is hardly surprising that I defend them more than Amaral who is very difficult to defend in any way at all as so much has been proven in both court and in his own book about him.
Why the pretense ?
Anyone reading you5r post independently will clearly see you are backing the mccanns.
-
do you honestly think that SY haven't done that - do you think that they have spent the last 2 years going through the whole case and haven't thought about the parents / friends . Looked at the statements and looked at the evidence - which will be a lot more detailed than the public see.
Any detective worth his salt in this case would have considered the parents - and then either stuck with it or moved on to other theories
No, I don't think that they have looked at any other possibilities. If they have found strong evidence of an abduction, why haven't they passed it on to the Portuguese authorities? This is such a farce and all this media deluge is only to distract people from the disastrous libel trial.
-
Absolutely. The idea that they haven't looked at the parents yet is ridiculous. They will have looked at the parents before anything else. The reason they're trying to work their way through a list of 40 suspects (probably a list of known sex offenders) and all the phone data is because the parents have already been eliminated.
You dont know that as a fact...all that has been said is the Mccanns and their friends are not persons of interest, in July, when asked, that does not necessarily mean thry have been looked at and investigated...thats just your opinion....
-
To all the conspiracy theorists who think this latest piece of news was orchestrated by Clarence Mitchell, you might want to have a look at the following link:
http://content.met.police.uk/News/Update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-Madeleine-McCann/1400020366124/1257246741786
The Met organised a briefing last night to announce the latest developments, which is why it's in the papers today.
-
Have the Portuguese authorities approved the request yet? The article failed to mention that. Also, the Met pointed out that this inquiry does not necessarily mean that the Portuguese have or will reopen the case. Reading this update is certainly different from what we read in the papers.
I still believe that it is very unprofessional for the Met to be on such close terms with the parents.
-
No, I don't think that they have looked at any other possibilities. If they have found strong evidence of an abduction, why haven't they passed it on to the Portuguese authorities? This is such a farce and all this media deluge is only to distract people from the disastrous libel trial.
well the SY will have to answer up the line sometime - Redwood et all are not their on some jolly - they are there to try and solve this case - you might think it is a farce - but I still have some notion that SY are at heart professional and also good at their job. Individual mistakes are always possible but these officers are accountable and pretty experienced - to say that they are ignoring the fact that the parents could have been involved just doesn't make sense
This whole master media manipulation of the press by the arch McCann PR machine - just don't buy it . Firstly I doubt that the libel judge reads the Express or logs into forums like this - so of this is part of some global PR strategy to influence the case then I doubt it will work.
Things are happening - the press reports - it still has interest in the UK
-
I don't see any mention of a reconstruction in this update either.
-
More information available on the Guardian, confirms that six PJ detectives are carrying out the Met's enquiries and negotiations about a closer working relationship are ongoing.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/madeleine-mccann-inquiry-mobile-phone-data
-
Quick point about petitions. Kerry Needham has set up a petition in order to force the government to review Ben's case as they did Madeleine's. She has advertise the petition over several different social media platforms for quite a few months yet only has just over three thousand signatures. Are you suggesting that the small number of signatures is a reflection of public support for Kerry, as you did with sceptic petitions, or is it simply that Kerry's petition, like the sceptic one, has not enjoyed the wall to wall publicity afforded to the McCann's petition ?
From Kerry's Facebook page :
Ben Needham Needs more backing by British Government
Responsible department: Home Office
Ben Needham was abducted from Kos back in 1991. His Mum Kerry has funded the search and followed every lead since his disappearance. Following the recent overhaul by Scotland Yard & The Government we ask for David Camerons help to give the same recources and fundings given to Madeleine Mccann to be given to the Needhams. Whats right for one missing child abroad should be the same for all.
Sign this petition
-
More information available on the Guardian, confirms that six PJ detectives are carrying out the Met's enquiries and negotiations about a closer working relationship are ongoing.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/madeleine-mccann-inquiry-mobile-phone-data
Why don't newspapers just reproduce the update from the Met instead of putting their spin on the text?
-
Have the Portuguese authorities approved the request yet? The article failed to mention that. Also, the Met pointed out that this inquiry does not necessarily mean that the Portuguese have or will reopen the case. Reading this update is certainly different from what we read in the papers.
I still believe that it is very unprofessional for the Met to be on such close terms with the parents.
I thought that that was the whole point? The investigation can't be reopened until there is sufficient evidence to convince the prosecution service. But without an active investigation, such evidence is unlikely to emerge.
-
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/maddie-snatched-by-algarve-paedo-ring-say-cops?previewId=r39vkli#.Uk6mQBdR7a8.twitter
Sunday World
Maddie McCann was snatched by an Algarve paedo ring according to police
Friday 4th October 2013
By Gerard Couzens
Madeleine McCann
PORTUGUESE cops working on behalf of the Metropolitan Police in the UK are focusing on the theory Madeleine McCann was snatched by an Algarve-based paedophile ring, it was claimed on Friday.
A team of six Portuguese detectives are taking statements, searching police records and making other inquiries following a British police request for help, Met Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley revealed on Thursday
Local reports said they were working on the premise Madeleine, who was three-years-old when she vanished from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, may have been a victim of paedophile rings operating in the area.
Respected Portuguse daily Correio da Manha, quoting unnamed sources, said: "The work of the Policia Judiciaria inspectors is based on a line of investigation which points to paedophile rings operating in the Algarve."
The reports came as Met police raised hopes of a breakthrough in the case by revealing they had identified three new potential suspects after trawling through the phone data of holidaymakers from 31 countries who were in the Praia da Luz area when Madeleine disappeared.
The Met, which announced a £5million review of the case codenamed Operation Grange during the summer, is now examining 41 "people of interest" including 15 from the UK and said new evidence had been uncovered.
It also emerged on Thursday that Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate will make a new appeal for information in the light of the "fresh, substantive material unearthed".
Investigators are expected to reveal a new theory that they say will give a "different understanding" about the case.
The programme, which will be screened on October 14, will feature a reconstruction of events the night of May 3, 2007, when Madeleine disappeared.
Equivalent programmes in Germany and the Netherlands, where most other tourists in Praia da Luz come from, will broadcast the material.
Kate McCann wrote of her fear her daughter was kidnapped by a paedophile in her May 2011 book on Madeleine's disappearance and the search for her.
She accused Portuguese police of covering up a series of child abuse sex cases before Madeleine went missing.
Kate and Gerry McCann
The McCanns were first warned of an alarming number of cases in the Algarve by British consul Bill Henderson.
When police made public their files on the case in the summer of 2008, Kate discovered five cases of British children being sexually abused in their beds while on holiday and while their parents slept in another room.
She wrote in her book: "It broke my heart to read the terrible accounts of these devastated parents and the experiences of their poor children.
"What these cases do demonstrate however, is that British tourists in holiday accommodation were being targeted.
"It is so hard not to scream from the rooftops about how these crimes appear to have been brushed under the carpet."
She has also revealed she is tortured by a belief an abuser is responsible for her daughter's disappearance.
She wrote in the book: "When Madeleine was first stolen, paedophiles were all we could think about, and it ate away at us.
"The truly awful manifestation of what I was feeling was a macabre slideshow of vivid pictures in my brain that taunted me relentlessly.
"I was crying out that I could see Madeleine lying, cold and mottled on a big grey stone slab.
"The idea of a monster like this touching my daughter, stroking her, defiling her perfect little body, just killed me over and over again."
Three paedophiles thought to have been in Portugal when Madeleine McCann vanished were said to have been put on a list of suspects British police drew up after announcing their review.
They included two Brits. One, child molester Raymond Hewlett, died in 2010 from throat cancer after refusing to speak to investigators hunting for Madeleine McCann.
One theory officers were said to be investigating was that Hewlett (64) snatched Madeleine to sell her to gypsies who were apparently trafficking children to Morocco. Scotland Yard has refused to discuss him.
Urs Hans von Aesch, who shot himself dead after kidnapping and murdering five-year-old Ylenia Lenhard in his native Switzerland, has also been put in the frame over Madeleine.
A new Portuguese police team was mobilised to make inquiries on missing Madeleine after Home Secretary Theresa May sent an official request for assistance to Portugal's Attorney General's office in July.
The Algarve-based officers are understood to work for the Policia Judiciaria's Faro-based southern division, the same division tasked with the original probe into Madeleine's disappearance headed by disgraced former police chief Goncalo Amaral.
He is currently being sued by Kate and Gerry over a controversial July 2008 book he wrote accusing them of covering up their daughter's death in their apartment by faking an abduction.
British police were expected to work along Portuguese police on the new inquiries but that has so far failed to materialise.
Pedro do Carmo, the Policia Judiciaria's National Deputy Director, refused to discuss the work Portuguese police were doing.
He said: "British authorities sent a rotatory letter to Portugal which was forwarded by the Public Prosecution Service to the Policia Judiciaria so it could be complied with in the normal way."
-
Also, why would SY just limit themselves to the abduction theory? Any decent police force would look at all options, even the parents. Leicestershire police stated to the court during the hearing when the McCanns tried to get hold of their files: Although one or both of the parents may be innocent, no evidence has been found which eliminates them from the investigation.
They did get files though. The files everyone has said, Kate couldn't have had. Namely other cases reported in Portugal!
It became clear that if today's hearing proceeded on a fully contested basis a number of areas of law of great interest to lawyers would have had to be considered. However Gerry and Kate McCann are not lawyers and so far as they were concerned the legal proceedings were moving further and further from the only matter which concerns them: the search for Madeleine. The proceedings were in danger of becoming a distraction from rather than an aid to that single goal.
Also there have been two recent developments which have greatly affected Gerry and Kate's views on these proceedings. The first is that the Leicestershire Constabulary has now agreed to release an important, though limited, part of the information which they have been seeking; I shall come back to that. The second is that, as has been widely publicised, it is expected that Gerry and Kate's status in Portugal as arguidos or suspects will be lifted soon. When that happens it is hoped and expected that a substantial further amount of information will be released.
Since Gerry and Kate have always wanted to work with all law enforcement agencies on a cooperative basis, they decided to withdraw the application against the Leicestershire Constabulary. We therefore come to Court today to ask you to approve an Order which all parties consent to.
The first part of the Order recites that the Chief Constable of Leicestershire has agreed to provide by today a document in accordance with Paragraph 50 of the Skeleton Argument which has been presented to the Court on his behalf. That Paragraph is at 34. It says that the Chief Constable is currently preparing a document which will provide the parents with the contact details of persons that have been forwarded to the investigation by the parents or those acting for them. This document will also contain a brief resume of the information that it is believed the person informed the parents or those acting for them that they wished to pass on to the investigation.
I said earlier that this is an important but limited amount of the information which Gerry and Kate had hoped to obtain. I would like to explain why it is important. Although the Leicestershire Constabulary were quick to set up a major incident room and to provide a telephone number which anyone with information could call, there was a period of time before this became widely known.
During that time Gerry and Kate's solicitor, Ms Ann Thomas of The International Family Law Group, who sits in front of me, had already been retained. Her firm’s number was publicised and a large number of people called in.
All of these callers were given the number which the Leicestershire Constabulary had set up for the purpose. The solicitors thought it right that the police should be receiving it. In fact with few exceptions the solicitors did not even retain any notes on what the callers were saying or even their contact details.
So what the Chief Constable is now voluntarily providing is the contact details and a summary of the information provided by a substantial number of people who were among the first to try to help the investigation. It is because these were on the whole people who came forward to volunteer information in the period immediately after the abduction that it is likely that the information which they provided will be most helpful.
So on that basis Gerry and Kate McCann are content to withdraw their application for any wider disclosure. Paragraph 4 of the Order provides that the documents in the case shall remain confidential to the Court. This of course is completely normal in wardship. An exception is made to enable the Chief Constable at his discretion to reveal the contents of his evidence and the legal arguments advanced on his behalf.
-
Why don't newspapers just reproduce the update from the Met instead of putting their spin on the text?
It was a briefing. The papers asked questions and got answers that weren't necessarily in the Statement. In any case, do you really expect papers to simply reproduce government statements? This isn't a dictatorship!
-
It was a briefing. The papers asked questions and got answers that weren't necessarily in the Statement. In any case, do you really expect papers to simply reproduce government statements? This isn't a dictatorship!
Quite.
And welcome to the board (I'd forgotten to do so earlier).
-
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/maddie-snatched-by-algarve-paedo-ring-say-cops?previewId=r39vkli#.Uk6mQBdR7a8.twitter
Sunday World
Maddie McCann was snatched by an Algarve paedo ring according to police
Friday 4th October 2013
By Gerard Couzens
Madeleine McCann
PORTUGUESE cops working on behalf of the Metropolitan Police in the UK are focusing on the theory Madeleine McCann was snatched by an Algarve-based paedophile ring, it was claimed on Friday.
A team of six Portuguese detectives are taking statements, searching police records and making other inquiries following a British police request for help, Met Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley revealed on Thursday
Local reports said they were working on the premise Madeleine, who was three-years-old when she vanished from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, may have been a victim of paedophile rings operating in the area.
Respected Portuguse daily Correio da Manha, quoting unnamed sources, said: "The work of the Policia Judiciaria inspectors is based on a line of investigation which points to paedophile rings operating in the Algarve."
The reports came as Met police raised hopes of a breakthrough in the case by revealing they had identified three new potential suspects after trawling through the phone data of holidaymakers from 31 countries who were in the Praia da Luz area when Madeleine disappeared.
The Met, which announced a £5million review of the case codenamed Operation Grange during the summer, is now examining 41 "people of interest" including 15 from the UK and said new evidence had been uncovered.
It also emerged on Thursday that Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate will make a new appeal for information in the light of the "fresh, substantive material unearthed".
Investigators are expected to reveal a new theory that they say will give a "different understanding" about the case.
The programme, which will be screened on October 14, will feature a reconstruction of events the night of May 3, 2007, when Madeleine disappeared.
Equivalent programmes in Germany and the Netherlands, where most other tourists in Praia da Luz come from, will broadcast the material.
Kate McCann wrote of her fear her daughter was kidnapped by a paedophile in her May 2011 book on Madeleine's disappearance and the search for her.
She accused Portuguese police of covering up a series of child abuse sex cases before Madeleine went missing.
Kate and Gerry McCann
The McCanns were first warned of an alarming number of cases in the Algarve by British consul Bill Henderson.
When police made public their files on the case in the summer of 2008, Kate discovered five cases of British children being sexually abused in their beds while on holiday and while their parents slept in another room.
She wrote in her book: "It broke my heart to read the terrible accounts of these devastated parents and the experiences of their poor children.
"What these cases do demonstrate however, is that British tourists in holiday accommodation were being targeted.
"It is so hard not to scream from the rooftops about how these crimes appear to have been brushed under the carpet."
She has also revealed she is tortured by a belief an abuser is responsible for her daughter's disappearance.
She wrote in the book: "When Madeleine was first stolen, paedophiles were all we could think about, and it ate away at us.
"The truly awful manifestation of what I was feeling was a macabre slideshow of vivid pictures in my brain that taunted me relentlessly.
"I was crying out that I could see Madeleine lying, cold and mottled on a big grey stone slab.
"The idea of a monster like this touching my daughter, stroking her, defiling her perfect little body, just killed me over and over again."
Three paedophiles thought to have been in Portugal when Madeleine McCann vanished were said to have been put on a list of suspects British police drew up after announcing their review.
They included two Brits. One, child molester Raymond Hewlett, died in 2010 from throat cancer after refusing to speak to investigators hunting for Madeleine McCann.
One theory officers were said to be investigating was that Hewlett (64) snatched Madeleine to sell her to gypsies who were apparently trafficking children to Morocco. Scotland Yard has refused to discuss him.
Urs Hans von Aesch, who shot himself dead after kidnapping and murdering five-year-old Ylenia Lenhard in his native Switzerland, has also been put in the frame over Madeleine.
A new Portuguese police team was mobilised to make inquiries on missing Madeleine after Home Secretary Theresa May sent an official request for assistance to Portugal's Attorney General's office in July.
The Algarve-based officers are understood to work for the Policia Judiciaria's Faro-based southern division, the same division tasked with the original probe into Madeleine's disappearance headed by disgraced former police chief Goncalo Amaral.
He is currently being sued by Kate and Gerry over a controversial July 2008 book he wrote accusing them of covering up their daughter's death in their apartment by faking an abduction.
British police were expected to work along Portuguese police on the new inquiries but that has so far failed to materialise.
Pedro do Carmo, the Policia Judiciaria's National Deputy Director, refused to discuss the work Portuguese police were doing.
He said: "British authorities sent a rotatory letter to Portugal which was forwarded by the Public Prosecution Service to the Policia Judiciaria so it could be complied with in the normal way."
-
More information available on the Guardian, confirms that six PJ detectives are carrying out the Met's enquiries and negotiations about a closer working relationship are ongoing.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/madeleine-mccann-inquiry-mobile-phone-data
What brilliant news we're having today, six new policemen from Faro not previously involved in the case working along with the Met, PT/Uk relations must be improving.
DCI Redwood said: "I have no reason to be anything other than confident in the McCanns. They have been thoroughly supportive of our inquiry and our relationship is very strong."
There is different material and a different understanding to be presented. There is new information not previously presented – fresh, substantive material.”
In view of the history of this case and how the McCanns were presented originally this is the first time they will have sat alongside police officers. From their perspective it is quite significant.”
Super news .
-
Thank you DCI ?{)(** I haven't quoted you because there's a risk of going off topic with me mentioning Jeremy Wilkins but will say that I didn't mention the times because I realised (and mentioned) on the other thread that I'd mistaken a policeman's statement as belonging to Jeremy Wilkins which is what was confusing me with the times. Thanks to you I can now forget about the man with blonde hair and probably get rid of my last paragraph from my original post leaving (and hopefully keeping on topic):
There's been numerous headlines like this over the years that fizzled out to nothing so it's difficult to believe anything the mainstream media say now.
The exception being the bit about Crimewatch. I don't understand how things work so I hope I'm forgiven if I sound silly. I thought Crimewatch aired unsolved cases to bring hardly known cases to the forefront because the police have run out of leads or ideas and need the help of the public? Yet according to the mainstream Scotland Yard still have leads? The McCann's have had a lot of coverage over the years that I can't see there being anyone left who doesn't know what Madeleine looks like or what the McCann's say happened so I wonder what can be offered that hasn't already been covered.
I still hope that Jeremy Wilkins will be part of Crimewatch though.
-
We'll see on the 14th what their new theory is, hopefully. I would say though, given the recent revelations in the uk about prolific sex offenders, that a ring of some kind might not be too far fetched.
-
What brilliant news we're having today, six new policemen from Faro not previously involved in the case working along with the Met, PT/Uk relations must be improving.
DCI Redwood said: "I have no reason to be anything other than confident in the McCanns. They have been thoroughly supportive of our inquiry and our relationship is very strong."
There is different material and a different understanding to be presented. There is new information not previously presented – fresh, substantive material.”
In view of the history of this case and how the McCanns were presented originally this is the first time they will have sat alongside police officers. From their perspective it is quite significant.”
Super news .
Yes, it does sound as if progress is being made.
-
We'll see on the 14th what their new theory is, hopefully. I would say though, given the recent revelations in the uk about prolific sex offenders, that a ring of some kind might not be too far fetched.
too right Victoria --no point in jumping the gun eh but they do they knock every positive thing that might just be the ending to this sad case.
when I say they that's the anti gangs
-
Yes, it does sound as if progress is being made.
Agreed. Good news at last.
-
Thank you DCI ?{)(** I haven't quoted you because there's a risk of going off topic with me mentioning Jeremy Wilkins but will say that I didn't mention the times because I realised (and mentioned) on the other thread that I'd mistaken a policeman's statement as belonging to Jeremy Wilkins which is what was confusing me with the times. Thanks to you I can now forget about the man with blonde hair and probably get rid of my last paragraph from my original post leaving (and hopefully keeping on topic):
I still hope that Jeremy Wilkins will be part of Crimewatch though.
Not sure about that. Aren't they normally done with actors?
-
too right Victoria --no point in jumping the gun eh but they do they knock every positive thing that might just be the ending to this sad case.
when I say they that's the anti gangs
That's because unfortunately it always turns out we're right. Sadly.
-
You remember the report done last year by Hamish Campbell's former No. 2 Ian Horrocks Red?
I'll bet the 'new theory' is pretty much described the way Horrocks did his.
-
too right Victoria --no point in jumping the gun eh but they do they knock every positive thing that might just be the ending to this sad case.
when I say they that's the anti gangs
How can Madeleine being in the hands of a paedophile gang be seen as positive in any way, shape or form ? Have you any idea what these people actually do to children ?
If the McCanns already know this is the line of investigation SY are pursuing it does make you question Gerry and Mrs Healy's wide grins on Wednesday.
Though as long as the McCanns are in the clear that must be a positive development, right ?
-
Firstly if you were to insist...
Secondly your inability...
I see that your knowledge in etymology, grammar, and dog's barking (that's a genitive form !) leave a lot to be desired..
-
I have the newspaper Correio da Manhã right in front of me and the sentence reads thus:
A linha de investigação da Scotland Yard aponta para a tese de rapto, num contexto de pedofilia.
The line of investigation of Scotland Yard points to the idea of an abduction, in the context of paedophilia.
Nowhere in the article does it say that the PJ is following this line of investigation. Newspapers in Britain aren't really bothered very much about printing the truth, are they?
-
Inside Scotland Yard's new Madeleine McCann hunt HQ
(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8859003.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/mad1.jpg)
Hard work: Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood in the incident room
Justin Davenport, Crime Editor
Published: 04 October 2013
Updated: 12:39, 04 October 2013
This is the nerve centre of Scotland Yard’s £5 million investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The Standard was today allowed exclusive access to the incident room in London where detectives are running the world-wide inquiry into the missing child.
(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8859004.ece/ALTERNATES/w460/mad2.jpg)
Restricted access: The door to the incident room
Located on the second floor of Belgravia police station, the room is the centre of a massive inquiry involving tens of thousands of documents and files. Detectives work surrounded by shelves stacked with 39,000 or so documents from the Operation Grange inquiry. A separate room contains more files from police and private detectives.
Detectives are poised to release a new appeal with “fresh substantive” material and a new theory of what happened when the three-year-old vanished.
Officers are combing through a huge log of mobile phone traffic identified in Praia da Luz, in Portugal, at the time of Maddy’s disappearance while she was on holiday in the Algarve with her parents Kate and Gerry McCann and her twin siblings six years ago. Detectives are focusing on a list of 41 so-called “persons of interest” including 15 British nationals.
The McCanns will appear live in the studio during an episode of BBC Crimewatch on Monday October 14 which will also feature a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared in Portugal — and equivalent programmes are expected to be broadcast in Holland, Germany and possibly Ireland.
Detectives said new material uncovered by the inquiry does not implicate the family or their friends.
http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/inside-scotland-yards-new-madeleine-mccann-hunt-hq-8858835.html
Portuguese Police already had access to the list of phone numbers but it has not previously been as closely scrutinised.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-make-tv-6136916
-
BTW, Correio da Manhã never stated that the Portuguese police were following the abduction and paedophile line of investigation. It stated that it was Scotland Yard's thesis.
-
You remember the report done last year by Hamish Campbell's former No. 2 Ian Horrocks Red?
I'll bet the 'new theory' is pretty much described the way Horrocks did his.
Not sure what you mean Lyall...Horrockswas convinced She was taken by a loving couple
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/06/new-report-finds-madeleine-mccann-could-be-alive-and-living-as-someone-else-s-daughter.html
-
BTW, Correio da Manhã never stated that the Portuguese police were following the abduction and paedophile line of investigation. It stated that it was Scotland Yard's thesis.
Thats right, its clear from this article as well, the PJ are assisting SY, and it is SYs line of investigation, one which they will outline in their crimewatch programme
-
Inside Scotland Yard's new Madeleine McCann hunt HQ
(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8859003.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/mad1.jpg)
Hard work: Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood in the incident room
Justin Davenport, Crime Editor
Published: 04 October 2013
Updated: 12:39, 04 October 2013
This is the nerve centre of Scotland Yard’s £5 million investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The Standard was today allowed exclusive access to the incident room in London where detectives are running the world-wide inquiry into the missing child.
(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8859004.ece/ALTERNATES/w460/mad2.jpg)
Restricted access: The door to the incident room
Located on the second floor of Belgravia police station, the room is the centre of a massive inquiry involving tens of thousands of documents and files. Detectives work surrounded by shelves stacked with 39,000 or so documents from the Operation Grange inquiry. A separate room contains more files from police and private detectives.
Detectives are poised to release a new appeal with “fresh substantive” material and a new theory of what happened when the three-year-old vanished.
Officers are combing through a huge log of mobile phone traffic identified in Praia da Luz, in Portugal, at the time of Maddy’s disappearance while she was on holiday in the Algarve with her parents Kate and Gerry McCann and her twin siblings six years ago. Detectives are focusing on a list of 41 so-called “persons of interest” including 15 British nationals.
The McCanns will appear live in the studio during an episode of BBC Crimewatch on Monday October 14 which will also feature a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared in Portugal — and equivalent programmes are expected to be broadcast in Holland, Germany and possibly Ireland.
Detectives said new material uncovered by the inquiry does not implicate the family or their friends.
http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/inside-scotland-yards-new-madeleine-mccann-hunt-hq-8858835.html
Portuguese Police already had access to the list of phone numbers but it has not previously been as closely scrutinised.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-make-tv-6136916
'Detectives said new material uncovered by the inquiry does not implicate the family or their friends.'
And that's what's important, isn't it ?
It doesn't really matter to you supporters that Madeleine may have been passed around by a paedophile ring or killed when she was of no further use to them. As long as the McCanns aren't implicate everything else is 'positive news', isn't it !
If any member is still in the dark about what really befalls a victim passed around by a paedophile ring google Jason Swift.
-
Please remain on topic. TY
-
'Detectives said new material uncovered by the inquiry does not implicate the family or their friends.'
And that's what's important, isn't it ?
It doesn't really matter to you supporters that Madeleine may have been passed around by a paedophile ring or killed when she was of no further use to them. As long as the McCanns aren't implicate everything else is 'positive news', isn't it !
If any member is still in the dark about what really befalls a victim passed around by a paedophile ring google Jason Swift.
No, I've got no interest in paedophile's, and I don't go looking on google for them.
-
No, I've got no interest in paedophile's, and I don't go looking on google for them.
I'm sure you don't DCI, all a bit mucky for you eh, but, according to SY, that is Madeleine's likely fate.
If only the McCanns had locked those doors and windows eh ! 8(8-))
-
theres so many denial from the pros it makes you wonder why are they really in that much denial they think the mcanns did nothing wrong??
Please don't tell me what I or anyone else thinks, Carly. You might like to explain your comment that I think the Mccanns did nothing wrong?
-
the thing is too IF maddie is alive she would not know her parents or family she would more then likley not speak english people who live in this fantasy land of her coming home into kate and gerrys arms like nothing had ever happned is so delsuional if maddie is found alive it will be traumatising for her all over again ( we would love maddie to be found alive but you know what i mean)
So if she were found, living in a foreign country, speaking a foreign language, she should just be left where she is then? Living with an abductor or other people who didn't have her there legally?
-
I'm sure you don't DCI, all a bit mucky for you eh, but, according to SY, that is Madeleine's likely fate.
If only the McCanns had locked those doors and windows eh ! 8(8-))
I find it rather wierd and perverted that some do, and enjoy looking for filth!
-
Because they have come up with nothing after spending millions. Literally a couple of 'persons of interest'. When you don't know what happened everyone in the area is a 'person of interest'. So they have identified three new people who happened to be there at the time (perhaps). Hardly stellar IMO
The investigation is at a dead end and going nowhere. Hence the need for tabloid coverage and TV shows. If they had anything of any value they would be investigating it but instead they are getting ready for crimewatch? Hardly stellar IMO.
They advertise to the world what they are doing via the media. IF they had anything of any worth then they would be investigating it - not doing the rounds of breakfast TV et al. Hardly stellar IMO
It has taken them 2 years to look at a bunch of 6 year old phone records. Wtf? What do they really expect to get from that? Oh this phone was in Porto and now it's in Germany but the owner is English - Maddie might be in Germany! Good police work? Hardly my friend the 'evidence' is so old now it is useless. Hardly stellar IMO
Perhaps you could tell me what is so darn GOOD about their investigation? What have they achieved in 2 years? How much further forward is the nation is learning the young girls fate?
N
There is certainly some sense in what you write BFB.
-
Not sure about that. Aren't they normally done with actors?
I think you're right Carana 8((()*/ It's been a while since I last watched it. Wouldn't they be required to talk with the people involved though so the actors knew what to say and do?
-
I find it rather wierd and perverted that some do, and enjoy looking for filth!
And I think you are in deep denial of Madeleine's possible fate, according to SY that is.
-
I think you're right Carana 8((()*/ It's been a while since I last watched it. Wouldn't they be required to talk with the people involved though so the actors knew what to say and do?
The programme will feature a reconstruction. Maybe an old version. We'll have to wait and see.
"The McCanns will appear live in the studio during an episode of BBC Crimewatch on Monday October 14 which will also feature a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared in Portugal — and equivalent programmes are expected to be broadcast in Holland, Germany and possibly Ireland."
-
I think you're right Carana 8((()*/ It's been a while since I last watched it. Wouldn't they be required to talk with the people involved though so the actors knew what to say and do?
I would point out that a 'reconstruction' is based on the known facts. What crimewatch provides are actually 'dramatisations', i.e what the police think may have happened. Two totally different things.
The McCanns and their friends would not take part in a reconstruction, for whatever reason.
They are however prepared to take part in anything where they are able to exercise some editorial control.
Read into that what you will.
N
-
And I think you are in deep denial of Madeleine's possible fate, according to SY that is.
De Nile is deep @)(++(*
Do they?
Jerry Lawton @JerryLawton 3h
Portuguese newspaper source claims police probing if Madeleine #McCann was snatched by Algarve paedophile ring - report unconfirmed by Met
-
Three paedophiles thought to have been in Portugal when Madeleine McCann vanished were said to have been put on a list of suspects British police drew up after announcing their review.
They included two Brits. One, child molester Raymond Hewlett, died in 2010 from throat cancer after refusing to speak to investigators hunting for Madeleine McCann.
One theory officers were said to be investigating was that Hewlett (64) snatched Madeleine to sell her to gypsies who were apparently trafficking children to Morocco. Scotland Yard has refused to discuss him.
Urs Hans von Aesch, who shot himself dead after kidnapping and murdering five-year-old Ylenia Lenhard in his native Switzerland, has also been put in the frame over Madeleine.
If that is part of SYs theories they are clutching at straws as there is ZERO evidence....
-
'Detectives said new material uncovered by the inquiry does not implicate the family or their friends.'
And that's what's important, isn't it ?
It doesn't really matter to you supporters that Madeleine may have been passed around by a paedophile ring or killed when she was of no further use to them. As long as the McCanns aren't implicate everything else is 'positive news', isn't it !
If any member is still in the dark about what really befalls a victim passed around by a paedophile ring google Jason Swift.
In no particular order, what matters is:
Justice for Madeleine
Justice for the McCanns
The truth of what happened to Madeleine.
We know that neither Kate and Gerry nor any of their friends had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance.
Kate and Gerry in particular learning the truth (whatever that might be) would be one, big, step.
A second (and incalculably valuable) added bonus would be to see Madeleine reunited, safe and well, with her loving family.
But let's get to the truth as the first step first.
But perhaps something to be hoped for rather than expected
-
In no particular order, what matters is:
Justice for Madeleine
Justice for the McCanns
The truth of what happened to Madeleine.
We know that neither Kate and Gerry nor any of their friends had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance.
Kate and Gerry in particular learning the truth (whatever that might be) would be one, big, step.
A second (and incalculably valuable) added bonus would be to see Madeleine reunited, safe and well, with her loving family.
But let's get to the truth as the first step first.
But perhaps something to be hoped for rather than expected
Do share your WE KNOW knowledge then we can all go home
@)(++(*
Never ceases to amaze me how you post things as fact when they are not...unless you know different....boring
-
To all the conspiracy theorists who think this latest piece of news was orchestrated by Clarence Mitchell, you might want to have a look at the following link:
http://content.met.police.uk/News/Update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-Madeleine-McCann/1400020366124/1257246741786
The Met organised a briefing last night to announce the latest developments, which is why it's in the papers today.
More fluff !! 8@??)(
-
I would point out that a 'reconstruction' is based on the known facts. What crimewatch provides are actually 'dramatisations', i.e what the police think may have happened. Two totally different things.
The McCanns and their friends would not take part in a reconstruction, for whatever reason.
They are however prepared to take part in anything where they are able to exercise some editorial control.
Read into that what you will.
N
What the police think may have happened, and what they want the public to pay attention to, would be the result of their analysis so far, wouldn't it?
The purpose of the two types of reconstruction seems to be quite different: the Portuguese type seems more for internal use, whereas the Crimewatch one seems to be more orientated towards trying to trigger the memories of potential witnesses.
-
De Nile is deep @)(++(*
Do they?
Jerry Lawton @JerryLawton 3h
Portuguese newspaper source claims police probing if Madeleine #McCann was snatched by Algarve paedophile ring - report unconfirmed by Met
Not denied though. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
ETA Is the appeal and reconstruction being shown in Portugal ?
-
What the police think may have happened, and what they want the public to pay attention to, would be the result of their analysis so far, wouldn't it?
The purpose of the two types of reconstruction seems to be quite different: the Portuguese type seems more for internal use, whereas the Crimewatch one seems to be more orientated towards trying to trigger the memories of potential witnesses.
Yes, the English reconstruction is based on suppositions which in turn are based on the current line(s) of investigation.
The Portuguese one seems more angled towards the verification of witness statements and the confirmation of timelines.
The crimewatch ones are designed to bring in as many viewers as possible @)(++(*
N
-
SY have to be seen to be doing something after the resources they have squandered on the Madeleine case thus far. Remember that David Cameron has become personally involved in this case for some unknown reason so SY will be keen to please their political masters regardless.
A point about the mobile telephones. Even if through some miracle they were able to identify those involved, proving it is yet another matter since telephone conversations are not recorded.
-
Yes, the English reconstruction is based on suppositions which in turn are based on the current line(s) of investigation.
The Portuguese one seems more angled towards the verification of witness statements and the confirmation of timelines.
The crimewatch ones are designed to bring in as many viewers as possible @)(++(*
N
Its all very cynical isn't it blondie? 8)--))
-
Its all very cynical isn't it blondie? 8)--))
Well once the media and politicians get involved that's the price one must pay ...
Of course, it all contributes to the overall obfuscation of matters 8((()*/
N
-
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/maddie-snatched-by-algarve-paedo-ring-say-cops?previewId=r39vkli#.Uk6mQBdR7a8.twitter
Sunday World
Maddie McCann was snatched by an Algarve paedo ring according to police
Friday 4th October 2013
By Gerard Couzens
So who are the other victims? I have never ever heard of a paedo ring who only ever abducted one child. 8(0(*
-
Not denied though. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
ETA Is the appeal and reconstruction being shown in Portugal ?
Good question, from the press reports dont think it is
-
So who are the other victims? I have never ever heard of a paedo ring who only ever abducted one child. 8(0(*
Its normal to be cynical after all the rubbish printed over six years.....I dont respect any press report these days unless it prints facts and most journalists are utterly incapable of doing so, Im sure most of them left school with no qualifications whatsoever
targetting dead paedos is utterly pathetic as there has never been any evidence whatsoever of their involvement in is case.....
-
Its all very cynical isn't it blondie? 8)--))
I don't see the problem.
We don't even know what exactly they want members of the public to try to remember. There could be details which might have seemed insignificant at the time but which may now be considered potentially important in the light of the analysis thus far. Some of it may simply be to eliminate other possibilities under consideration.
-
It doesn't really matter to you supporters that Madeleine may have been passed around by a paedophile ring or killed when she was of no further use to them. As long as the McCanns aren't implicate everything else is 'positive news', isn't it !
They probably at least unconsciously know it didn't happen.
-
previous crimewatch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzXsLHSn-lM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
-
So who are the other victims? I have never ever heard of a paedo ring who only ever abducted one child. 8(0(*
There is normally other evidence, photo, video, audio, clothes purchases, online communications etc. To imply that a 'ring' is involved also implies that a 'ring' has been discovered. A 'ring' being two or more people who share information, pictures or individuals.
It could just be one sex offender who has accomplices that help him/her to procure material but take no part in using that material.
The truth is the press love to use the phrase 'ring' because it is a highly visual word - it brings up all sorts of images of seedy underworld shenanigans.
I did work with sex offenders for about a year and the public image of them is so inaccurate it is laughable.
N
-
To all the conspiracy theorists who think this latest piece of news was orchestrated by Clarence Mitchell, you might want to have a look at the following link:
http://content.met.police.uk/News/Update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-Madeleine-McCann/1400020366124/1257246741786
The Met organised a briefing last night to announce the latest developments, which is why it's in the papers today.
There's no conspiracy theorist on this forum.
-
Its normal to be cynical after all the rubbish printed over six years.....I dont respect any press report these days unless it prints facts and most journalists are utterly incapable of doing so, Im sure most of them left school with no qualifications whatsoever
targetting dead paedos is utterly pathetic as there has never been any evidence whatsoever of their involvement in is case.....
Dead paedos may be the ones that they are close to conclusively eliminating from their list. If international cooperation is working well, even if these dead ones had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, this investigation could always bring to light information as to whether they may have been involved - or not - in other unresolved cases.
-
Dead paedos may be the ones that they are close to conclusively eliminating from their list. If international cooperation is working well, even if these dead ones had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, this investigation could always bring to light information as to whether they may have been involved - or not - in other unresolved cases.
Shall we stick to one thing at a time? Im sure SYs remit is not to consider other cases when any info is up tut
Just pray no one is made a patsy this leadership has form for it!!!! And how disgusting was that!
-
I expect that if they arrest anyone other than the McCanns, no matter the evidence, no matter if there is a conviction, the conspiracy theorists on here will still be saying it's a patsy.
-
Shall we stick to one thing at a time? Im sure SYs remit is not to consider other cases when any info is up tut
Just pray no one is made a patsy this leadership has form for it!!!! And how disgusting was that!
I never said that it was part of its remit - it clearly isn't. But there is always a possibility that cooperation might help other forces to solve their own crimes.
-
Because they have come up with nothing after spending millions. Literally a couple of 'persons of interest'. When you don't know what happened everyone in the area is a 'person of interest'. So they have identified three new people who happened to be there at the time (perhaps). Hardly stellar IMO
The investigation is at a dead end and going nowhere. Hence the need for tabloid coverage and TV shows. If they had anything of any value they would be investigating it but instead they are getting ready for crimewatch? Hardly stellar IMO.
They advertise to the world what they are doing via the media. IF they had anything of any worth then they would be investigating it - not doing the rounds of breakfast TV et al. Hardly stellar IMO
It has taken them 2 years to look at a bunch of 6 year old phone records. Wtf? What do they really expect to get from that? Oh this phone was in Porto and now it's in Germany but the owner is English - Maddie might be in Germany! Good police work? Hardly my friend the 'evidence' is so old now it is useless. Hardly stellar IMO
Perhaps you could tell me what is so darn GOOD about their investigation? What have they achieved in 2 years? How much further forward is the nation is learning the young girls fate?
N
That's the rub. After 2,5 years reviewing the work of PJ + UK police officers, they have not yet finished to analyse the files but include in their investigation two dead men and will desperately attempt to make a reconstruction ! This is surrealistic. What will the taxpayers finally say ?
-
I expect that if they arrest anyone other than the McCanns, no matter the evidence, no matter if there is a conviction, the conspiracy theorists on here will still be saying it's a patsy.
Oh I dunno. I'm no fan of the McCann clan however if someone is found guilty in a court of law for Madeline's disappearance I'd like to think I'm mature enough to admit to my mistake.
N
-
Oh I dunno. I'm no fan of the McCann clan however if someone is found guilty in a court of law for Madeline's disappearance I'd like to think I'm mature enough to admit to my mistake.
N
I didn't have you down as one of the conspiracy theorists in any event. I assumed you were on the fence.
-
I didn't have you down as one of the conspiracy theorists in any event. I assumed you were on the fence.
I'm not totally convinced either way to be honest, but I do hold some serious concerns regarding the parents behaviour over the years.
I used to think 'time will tell' but more and more I'm believing that we will never see closure in this case.
N
-
They probably at least unconsciously know it didn't happen.
I'm sure you're right Anne.
-
That's the rub. After 2,5 years reviewing the work of PJ + UK police officers, they have not yet finished to analyse the files but include in their investigation two dead men and will desperately attempt to make a reconstruction ! This is surrealistic. What will the taxpayers finally say ?
I still don't see the problem.
We don't even know if they are the people on the verge of being eliminated.
We don't yet know what the reconstruction will seek to highlight.
I'm sure we'll find out in due course.
-
That's the rub. After 2,5 years reviewing the work of PJ + UK police officers, they have not yet finished to analyse the files but include in their investigation two dead men and will desperately attempt to make a reconstruction ! This is surrealistic. What will the taxpayers finally say ?
This is what the tax-payers are saying Anne :
https://www.facebook.com/missing.child.alerts.uk
-
So who are the other victims? I have never ever heard of a paedo ring who only ever abducted one child. 8(0(*
good question...does anyone know the number of abductions or attempted abductions in Portugal in the last 5 years
-
This is what the tax-payers are saying Anne :
https://www.facebook.com/missing.child.alerts.uk
I find it great to see that some of these initiatives are getting more attention.
-
good question...does anyone know the number of abductions or attempted abductions in Portugal in the last 5 years
Here you go davel
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=stats+on+child+abduction+Portugal&oq=stats+on+child+abduction+Portugal&aqs=chrome..69i57.17975j0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
-
good question...does anyone know the number of abductions or attempted abductions in Portugal in the last 5 years
The only abduction that I know of in the Algarve since 2007 was that of a Portuguese father taking his daughter from her Irish mother. And they found her hidden by the father's family in Madeira.
-
The only abduction that I know of in the Algarve since 2007 was that of a Portuguese father taking his daughter from her Irish mother. And they found her hidden by the father's family in Madeira.
If this is the same one, I was just reading about it.
http://www.reuniteellie.com/#!letters/c23hf
-
I think you're right Carana 8((()*/ It's been a while since I last watched it. Wouldn't they be required to talk with the people involved though so the actors knew what to say and do?
Be funny to watch them sidestep the Jez encounter. @)(++(*
-
Be funny to watch them sidestep the Jez encounter. @)(++(*
Somehow I doubt that they are really seeking witnesses to place Jez, Jane and Gerry towards one side of the road or the other 6 years later.
-
Somehow I doubt that they are really seeking witnesses to place Jez, Jane and Gerry towards one side of the road or the other 6 years later.
If they were being thorough it's a glaring uncertainty from the McCanns' own documentary that could do with being resolved. Some people may be prepared to just brush it off as irrelevant, others find it a lot more significant. That an investigating force would find such a crucial thing as establishing the credibility and location of a (possibly the only) eyewitness unnecessary would seem a little haphazard.
-
Here you go davel
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=stats+on+child+abduction+Portugal&oq=stats+on+child+abduction+Portugal&aqs=chrome..69i57.17975j0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Thanks...seems Portugal is right up there with Tunisia,Swaziland and South Africa
-
Thanks...seems Portugal is right up there with Tunisia,Swaziland and South Africa
Based on what, davel?
-
Thanks...seems Portugal is right up there with Tunisia,Swaziland and South Africa
They are the stats for kidnappings though, not necessarily children.
N
-
If they were being thorough it's a glaring uncertainty from the McCanns' own documentary that could do with being resolved. Some people may be prepared to just brush it off as irrelevant, others find it a lot more significant. That an investigating force would find such a crucial thing as establishing the credibility and location of a (possibly the only) eyewitness unnecessary would seem a little haphazard.
How do you suggest that that could be resolved? Calling for witnesses 6 years later as to whether one, two or three people were standing in the middle of the road, to one side or the other, up 2 metres, down 2 metres?
CCTV would have resolved it, but there wasn't any there.
-
How do you suggest that that could be resolved? Calling for witnesses 6 years later as to whether one, two or three people were standing in the middle of the road, to one side or the other, up 2 metres, down 2 metres?
CCTV would have resolved it, but there wasn't any there.
I'm pretty sure they all remember something as crucial as where they were standing and talking. After all, they have the statements to work from to help them out too 8**8:/:
-
Thanks...seems Portugal is right up there with Tunisia,Swaziland and South Africa
I've heard of no abduction nor by stranger nor from bed.
-
I've heard of no abduction nor by stranger nor from bed.
So you are saying Portugal has never had a stranger abduction...perhaps they always blame the parents.
-
Thanks...seems Portugal is right up there with Tunisia,Swaziland and South Africa
you're very welcome, though what I provided was a link to Google. I'd appreciate a link to the article you got the above info from?
-
you're very welcome, though what I provided was a link to Google. I'd appreciate a link to the article you got the above info from?
It's the 2nd or 3rd one down. It's not about abductions it's kidnappings so isn't really very relevant in this context.
N
-
you're very welcome, though what I provided was a link to Google. I'd appreciate a link to the article you got the above info from?
Yeah, I asked that earlier too but davel doesn't like to actually back up his claims with facts so don't hold your breath. 8(0(*
-
BTW, Correio da Manhã never stated that the Portuguese police were following the abduction and paedophile line of investigation. It stated that it was Scotland Yard's thesis.
Scotland Yard tonight is dismissing as speculation reports that the new investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, is focussing on a paedophile ring on the Algarve.
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/
-
Scotland Yard tonight is dismissing as speculation reports that the new investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, is focussing on a paedophile ring on the Algarve.
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/
Good God! Can it get any worse? 8(8-))
-
Scotland Yard tonight is dismissing as speculation reports that the new investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, is focussing on a paedophile ring on the Algarve.
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/
Speculation can often, in the fullness of time, be proved to be correct. I noticed there was no absolute denial.
-
So you are saying Portugal has never had a stranger abduction...perhaps they always blame the parents.
From bed, no. From home, as well no. From garden, i don't know.
The bed detail, only in the Lindbergh baby case and in the Kent child one... which were no abductions..
-
I've heard of no abduction nor by stranger nor from bed.
You have. I have told you about them. Over and over.
Have you forgotten so soon, Anne ?
Eight stranger abductions, one every two years. Four in a small area around Porto and four in a small area around PdL
-
Good God! Can it get any worse? 8(8-))
What I don't understand is why the press have been briefed, ten days in advance, that Scotland Yard will be unvieling a 'new theory'
A THEORY !
What purpose will that serve then ?
Nearly three years and six million pounds later, they have a Theory ? ... in other words, they don't 'know' what happened but they are going to announce ( whilst the investigation is still ongoing ) what they they think 'might' have happened
Is that normal protocol for Scotland Yard ?
-
What I don't understand is why the press have been briefed, ten days in advance, that Scotland Yard will be unvieling a 'new theory'A THEORY !
What purpose will that serve then ?
Nearly three years and six million pounds later, they have a Theory ? ... in other words, they don't 'know' what happened but they are going to announce ( whilst the investigation is still ongoing ) what they they think 'might' have happened
Is that normal protocol for Scotland Yard ?
Could be that they simply want to 'advertise' the impending Crimewatch programme to as many people as possible.
-
Could be that they simply want to 'advertise' the impending Crimewatch programme to as many people as possible.
Possibly
But what I don't understand is why Scotland Yard would be announcing a 'new theory
A 'theory' afterall is merely a suggestion of what is possibly true, but not known or proven to be
Surely the job of the police is to investigate any such possibility, and only when it is proven, to act on it
What is the point, exactly, of Scotland presenting an unproven theory to the public whilst the investigation is ongoing ?
Do they usually do that ?
-
Possibly
But what I don't understand is why Scotland Yard would be announcing a 'new theory
A 'theory' afterall is merely a suggestion of what is possibly true, but not known or proven to be
Surely the job of the police is to investigate any such possibility, and only when it is proven, to act on it
What is the point, exactly, of Scotland presenting an unproven theory to the public whilst the investigation is ongoing ?
Do they usually do that ?
I don't know Icab - as we don't have a similar case to compare like for like with. However, I'm sure SY know what they are doing and know what it is safe to reveal or not as the case may be. It would seem that they have reached a point where they need the public's help - in order to progress their investigations - hence the Crimewatch prog.
-
Jeezuz. I don't think I can cope with much more of this. This has got to be the best and the worst laugh that I have ever had.
And now my ribs are giving me a serious hard time.
Justice? Phfutt. Let's hear it for Jeremy Bamber. The poor old b....r has got to have something going for him if this travesty of Justice is anything to go by.
-
Jeezuz. I don't think I can cope with much more of this. This has got to be the best and the worst laugh that I have ever had.
And now my ribs are giving me a serious hard time.
Justice? Phfutt. Let's hear it for Jeremy Bamber. The poor old b....r has got to have something going for him if this travesty of Justice is anything to go by.
I don't understand what you are getting at here Eleanor
-
I don't understand what you are getting at here Eleanor
So why would you wish to engage with me? Or do you wish that I would be banned?
I have never in all of my born days seen such supported bias. And of course, you are all wasting your time. As no doubt I am doing.
.... provocative comment removed ...
-
So why would you wish to engage with me? Or do you wish that I would be banned?
I have never in all of my born days seen such supported bias. And of course, you are all wasting your time. As no doubt I am doing.
.... provocative comment removed ...
I wasn't goading you Eleanor
We've engaged in the past, with no problem that I was aware of ... I genuinely thought you were making a point that I was missing
-
I wasn't goading you Eleanor
We've engaged in the past, with no problem that I was aware of ... I genuinely thought you were making a point that I was missing
Oh do come on, Love. You cannot be totally unaware of whose side I am on, as I cannot be unaware of whose side you are on.
Was I making a point? Of course I was. And I very much doubt that you are that thick.
Do I think that you are winding me up? Almost certainly. But don't ever imagine that I don't know of what I am talking about, or what the likes of you can do. And do you think that it is possible to make me say something that I will later regret?
Not a hope in Hell's chance.
I can always be wrong. And if I ever am proven to be, then I will not have done any harm to anyone. I will not ever to have accused without cause. And funnily enough, I thought that you could see this.
Do you not see that that what you do is so dreadful. None of us has to be right.
Just think "Logistics". That's about it, really.
-
What I don't understand is why the press have been briefed, ten days in advance, that Scotland Yard will be unvieling a 'new theory'
A THEORY !
What purpose will that serve then ?
Nearly three years and six million pounds later, they have a Theory ? ... in other words, they don't 'know' what happened but they are going to announce ( whilst the investigation is still ongoing ) what they they think 'might' have happened
Is that normal protocol for Scotland Yard ?
Now let me think.
Who was it that had a theory? ... and wrote a book about it, whilst he was still at the helm?
Then immediately published it as soon as he was removed / left the PJ
A THEORY
A theory ... in other words, he didn't 'know' what happened but he announced ( whilst the investigation was still ongoing ) .... what he thought 'might' have happened
Seriously blackened the name of a grieving couple with NO proof what so ever.
Made a bomb out of it too .........
That was Ok for Amaral to do, wasn't it , Icabod?
-
Now let me think.
Who was it that had a theory? ... and wrote a book about it, whilst he was still at the helm?
Then immediately published it as soon as he was removed / left the PJ
A THEORY
A theory ... in other words, he didn't 'know' what happened but he announced ( whilst the investigation was still ongoing ) .... what he thought 'might' have happened
Seriously blackened the name of a grieving couple with NO proof what so ever.
Made a bomb out of it too .........
That was Ok for Amaral to do, wasn't it , Icabod?
Sadie, if you're going to chuck in abuse about Amaral, that's all fine and dandy and totally your prerogative but it would help if you occasionally got some facts right. Try looking into publication dates of Amaral's book and the archiving summary for a start.
-
Now let me think.
Who was it that had a theory? ... and wrote a book about it, whilst he was still at the helm?
Then immediately published it as soon as he was removed / left the PJ
A THEORY
A theory ... in other words, he didn't 'know' what happened but he announced ( whilst the investigation was still ongoing ) .... what he thought 'might' have happened
Seriously blackened the name of a grieving couple with NO proof what so ever.
Made a bomb out of it too .........
That was Ok for Amaral to do, wasn't it , Icabod?
Why don't you publish your theories Sadie ?
Honestly, I'm not taking the mick.
You could then open them up to wider examination. >@@(*&)
-
Now let me think.
Who was it that had a theory? ... and wrote a book about it, whilst he was still at the helm?
Then immediately published it as soon as he was removed / left the PJ
A THEORY
A theory ... in other words, he didn't 'know' what happened but he announced ( whilst the investigation was still ongoing ) .... what he thought 'might' have happened
Seriously blackened the name of a grieving couple with NO proof what so ever.
Made a bomb out of it too .........
That was Ok for Amaral to do, wasn't it , Icabod?
You have not addressed the question I posed at all
What purpose will it serve for Scotland Yard to present a 'theory' that is unproven ?
-
You have. I have told you about them. Over and over.
Have you forgotten so soon, Anne ?
Eight stranger abductions, one every two years. Four in a small area around Porto and four in a small area around PdL
What the hell are you talking about?
-
You have not addressed the question I posed at all
What purpose will it serve for Scotland Yard to present a 'theory' that is unproven ?
Maybe after more interviews with certain people, they will be able to prove it.
Let's wait and see, shall we?
-
You have not addressed the question I posed at all
What purpose will it serve for Scotland Yard to present a 'theory' that is unproven ?
Amaral's theory is unproven but he presented it in a book and a documentary--
so whats your theory icab ? you must have one surely ;)
-
What the hell are you talking about?
Really, I cannot go thru all this again.
This has been gone over at least 5 times on this forum and three times in depth.
I will give you the names tho
Jorge Sepulveda
Claudia Silve e Sousa
Rene Hasse
Rui Pedro
Rui Perriera
Joana Cipriano
Carolina Santos (failed abduction)
Madeleine Mccann
The last three:
Joana, a pretty seven year old vanished just 7 (SEVEN) miles away from PdL, at Figueira ... and 2 years 8 months before Madeleine was taken
Carolina Santos, a pretty little 3 year old, abducted about 18 miles away at Silves This abduction was thwarted and Carolina returned to her parents without damage.
THis was under 5 months before Madeleine was abducted.
Madeleine Mccann at PdL, another pretty little almost 4 year old.
All three girls were blond or fair haired, noticeably pretty and seven years or younger. No other Stranger abductions of under 15 year olds in the whole landmass of Portugal
So three abductions within 18 miles in less than 3 years. There was a predator around.
-
Amaral's theory is unproven but he presented it in a book and a documentary--
so whats your theory icab ? you must have one surely ;)
Well I can guess why Amaral presented his theory ... putting the record straight, as he saw it, from his own point of view ( and making money in the process )
This business of Scotland Yard presenting an unproven theory, though, is baffling
I am sure there must be a purpose to it ... but I simply can't fathom what it is
Any ideas ?
-
Really, I cannot go thru all this again.
This has been gone over at least 5 times on this forum and three times in depth.
I will give you the names tho
Jorge Sepulveda
Claudia Silve e Sousa
Rene Hasse
Rui Pedro
Rui Perriera
Joana Cipriano
Carolina Santos (failed abduction)
Madeleine Mccann
The last three:
Joana, a pretty seven year old vanished just 7 (SEVEN) miles away from PdL, at Figueira ... and 2 years 8 months before Madeleine was taken
Carolina Santos, a pretty little 3 year old, abducted about 18 miles away at Silves This abduction was thwarted and Carolina returned to her parents without damage.
THis was under 5 months before Madeleine was abducted.
Madeleine Mccann at PdL, another pretty little almost 4 year old.
All three girls were blond or fair haired, noticeably pretty and seven years or younger. No other Stranger abductions of under 15 year olds in the whole landmass of Portugal
So three abductions within 18 miles in less than 3 years. There was a predator around.
OK.
Let's try this.
How many child abductions are there within 18 miles of London, within a 3 year period ?
On a per capita basis.
-
Well I can guess why Amaral presented his theory ... putting the record straight, as he saw it, from his own point of view ( and making money in the process )
This business of Scotland presenting an unproven theory, though, is baffling
I am sure there must be a purpose to it ... but I simply can't fathom what it is
Any ideas ?
There is a massive difference between Dr Ameral writing a book after he retired and Dci Redwood broadcasting info on an ongoing investigation.
To answer your question Icabod, I can't think of any that don't involve wild conspiracy theories about the Dr's Mccann influence on the press and SY, which is just so unlikely it's not worth discussing.
It doesn't make a great deal of sense does it?
-
Really, I cannot go thru all this again.
This has been gone over at least 5 times on this forum and three times in depth.
I will give you the names tho
Jorge Sepulveda
Claudia Silve e Sousa
Rene Hasse
Rui Pedro
Rui Perriera
Joana Cipriano
Carolina Santos (failed abduction)
Madeleine Mccann
The last three:
Joana, a pretty seven year old vanished just 7 (SEVEN) miles away from PdL, at Figueira ... and 2 years 8 months before Madeleine was taken
Carolina Santos, a pretty little 3 year old, abducted about 18 miles away at Silves This abduction was thwarted and Carolina returned to her parents without damage.
THis was under 5 months before Madeleine was abducted.
Madeleine Mccann at PdL, another pretty little almost 4 year old.
All three girls were blond or fair haired, noticeably pretty and seven years or younger. No other Stranger abductions of under 15 year olds in the whole landmass of Portugal
So three abductions within 18 miles in less than 3 years. There was a predator around.
I don't know anything about the other children on that list but why have you included Joana Cipriano on it ?
... She was not abducted ... she was murdered by her mother and uncle, who are currently serving long sentences in prison for the crime
-
There is a massive difference between Dr Ameral writing a book after he retired and Dci Redwood broadcasting info on an ongoing investigation.
To answer your question Icabod, I can't think of any that don't involve wild conspiracy theories about the Dr's Mccann influence on the press and SY, which is just so unlikely it's not worth discussing.
It doesn't make a great deal of sense does it?
I'm not one for conspiracy theories either Cariad, but I just can't see what is to be gained by Scotland Yard making public a 'theory' that they are still investigating
-
Really, I cannot go thru all this again.
This has been gone over at least 5 times on this forum and three times in depth.
I will give you the names tho
Jorge Sepulveda
Claudia Silve e Sousa
Rene Hasse
Rui Pedro
Rui Perriera
Joana Cipriano
Carolina Santos (failed abduction)
Madeleine Mccann
The last three:
Joana, a pretty seven year old vanished just 7 (SEVEN) miles away from PdL, at Figueira ... and 2 years 8 months before Madeleine was taken
Carolina Santos, a pretty little 3 year old, abducted about 18 miles away at Silves This abduction was thwarted and Carolina returned to her parents without damage.
THis was under 5 months before Madeleine was abducted.
Madeleine Mccann at PdL, another pretty little almost 4 year old.
All three girls were blond or fair haired, noticeably pretty and seven years or younger. No other Stranger abductions of under 15 year olds in the whole landmass of Portugal
So three abductions within 18 miles in less than 3 years. There was a predator around.
~
Claudia Silva e Sousa went missing in 1994 in Braga, almost 20 years ago! How you find a connection there?
Rui Pedro was 11 years old and went missing in 1998; Jorge Sepulveda was 14 years old and went missing in 1991 (22 years ago!); Rui Pereira was also 14 years old when he went missing in 1999. You can hardly compare these cases with a 3 year old going missing.
Joana Cipriano was murdered by her mother and uncle and their convictions have been upheld by all of the appeals courts, inclulding the Supreme Court. I suppose João Cipriano's confession and the evidence must have been rather strong.
As for Madeleine McCann there is no evidence to support the abduction theory, so you cannot put her name on the list of abductions. Missing yes.
AFAIK, René Hassee disappeared on a deserted beach right in front of his parents. Hardly likely an abduction but JMO.
ETA: Regarding Rui Pedro Afonso Dias had always been the main suspect and was convicted and sentenced to 3 years and 6 months in prison on 4 March 2013 for abduction of a minor.
-
I don't know anything about the other children on that list but why have you included Joana Cipriano on it ?
... She was not abducted ... she was murdered by her mother and uncle, who are currently serving long sentences in prison for the crime
Convicted on TORTURED out evidence = NO EVIDENCE
Nothing there, except TORTURED OUT CONFESSIONS
NO FORENSICS ... NOTHING
And in a case "solved" by a convicted liar, Amaral ... and another officer Cristavao who is currently up, on 7 (SEVEN) fraud and other charges. Of course with Cristavao, he has to be considered innocent ... until he has been proven otherwise
So you think this unsafe trial using only tortured out evidence, proves them as murderers, Icabod ?
Something lacking in your cognative perspectives there Icabod.
Thinking cap on, I cabod:
Is tortured out evidence a suitable form of evidence for convicting a person ... or is it a gross miscarriage of Justice?
-
Convicted on TORTURED out evidence = NO EVIDENCE
Nothing there, except TORTURED OUT CONFESSIONS
NO FORENSICS ... NOTHING
And in a case "solved" by a convicted liar, Amaral ... and another officer Cristavao who is currently up, on 7 (SEVEN) fraud and other charges. Of course with Cristavao, he has to be considered innocent ... until he has been proven otherwise
So you think this unsafe trial using only tortured out evidence, proves them as murderers, Icabod ?
Something lacking in your cognative perspectives there Icabod.
Thinking cap on, I cabod:
Is tortured out evidence a suitable form of evidence for convicting a person ... or is it a gross miscarriage of Justice?
Even if you choose to disregard the rule of law, there is simply no evidence that little joana was 'abducted' and you have no business producing a 'list' that asserts she was
You really must stop presenting your imaginings as though they were fact sadie ... it is wrong of you to do that
-
Convicted on TORTURED out evidence = NO EVIDENCE
Nothing there, except TORTURED OUT CONFESSIONS
NO FORENSICS ... NOTHING
And in a case "solved" by a convicted liar, Amaral ... and another officer Cristavao who is currently up, on 7 (SEVEN) fraud and other charges. Of course with Cristavao, he has to be considered innocent ... until he has been proven otherwise
So you think this unsafe trial using only tortured out evidence, proves them as murderers, Icabod ?
Something lacking in your cognative perspectives there Icabod.
Thinking cap on, I cabod:
Is tortured out evidence a suitable form of evidence for convicting a person ... or is it a gross miscarriage of Justice?
You seem to forget that Leonor had confessed two days before the alleged torture in the company of her lawyer. She was being questioned by the other inspectors to find out where the body was hidden when she was supposedly beaten up. João Cipriano her brother confessed in court in front of the judge and a confession in court is irrevocable and the only valid one in Portugal. Any other confession made during the course of an investigation has no value unless corroborated by one made in the court room. How can you people support this horrible excuse for a mother. She was convicted and it was no miscarriage of justice FGS.
-
~
Claudia Silva e Sousa went missing in 1994 in Braga, almost 20 years ago! How you find a connection there?
Rui Pedro was 11 years old and went missing in 1998; Jorge Sepulveda was 14 years old and went missing in 1991 (22 years ago!); Rui Pereira was also 14 years old when he went missing in 1999. You can hardly compare these cases with a 3 year old going missing.
Joana Cipriano was murdered by her mother and uncle and their convictions have been upheld by all of the appeals courts, inclulding the Supreme Court. I suppose João Cipriano's confession and the evidence must have been rather strong.
As for Madeleine McCann there is no evidence to support the abduction theory, so you cannot put her name on the list of abductions. Missing yes.
AFAIK, René Hassee disappeared on a deserted beach right in front of his parents. Hardly likely an abduction but JMO.
ETA: Regarding Rui Pedro Afonso Dias had always been the main suspect and was convicted and sentenced to 3 years and 6 months in prison on 4 March 2013 for abduction of a minor.
Yep, it all started in 1991, up in the north near Oporto and 16 years before Madeleine went . Approx every 18 months to 2 years, another child was taken, mainly in the North, but Rene Hasse was taken from the Atlantic Coast of the Algarve, just 18 miles WNW of PdL in 1996.
In, or about, 1999 the son of an Elite was taken in for questioning and IIRC charged. Someone got him off. I now think I know who that son of an Elite was .... and who that man was who got him off ... a very powerful man ... loads of clout.
All information now whitewashed off the internet ... which I find very intersting, tbh.
As far as I am aware there was a gap then for about 5 years altho IIRC a child went missing in Madeira and another child vanished in peculiar circumstances.
Anyway, it all started up again in the Algarve region when Joana went missing in 2004 after what seems to have been a five year break. Then as stated previously, Carolina (late 2006) and Madeleine (2007)
So 1991 to 2007 is 16 years and it had been going on for that time .... 16 years. More or less every 18 months to 2 years a child had been taken.
-
Yep, it all started in 1991, up in the north near Oporto and 16 years before Madeleine went . Approx every 18 months to 2 years, another child was taken, mainly in the North, but Rene Hasse was taken from the Atlantic Coast of the Algarve, just 18 miles WNW of PdL in 1996.
In, or about, 1999 the son of an Elite was taken in for questioning and IIRC charged. Someone got him off. I now think I know who that son of an Elite was .... and who that man was who got him off ... a very powerful man ... loads of clout.
All information now whitewashed off the internet ... which I find very intersting, tbh.
As far as I am aware there was a gap then for about 5 years altho IIRC a child went missing in Madeira and another child vanished in peculiar circumstances.
Anyway, it all started up again in the Algarve region when Joana went missing in 2004 after what seems to have been a five year break. Then as stated previously, Carolina (late 2006) and Madeleine (2007)
So 1991 to 2007 is 16 years and it had been going on for that time .... 16 years. More or less every 18 months to 2 years a child had been taken.
Sadie, this is delusional nonsense. Stop posting your beliefs as facts, it's confusing and clutters the place up.
-
I don't know anything about the other children on that list but why have you included Joana Cipriano on it ?
... She was not abducted ... she was murdered by her mother and uncle, who are currently serving long sentences in prison for the crime
I haven't come across any tangible evidence to indicate what happened to that little girl. From the few documents online, it doesn't even seem clear that she ever even got home that night.
Has anyone found the original trial documents online (including the forensic report)?
-
Yep, it all started in 1991, up in the north near Oporto and 16 years before Madeleine went . Approx every 18 months to 2 years, another child was taken, mainly in the North, but Rene Hasse was taken from the Atlantic Coast of the Algarve, just 18 miles WNW of PdL in 1996.
In, or about, 1999 the son of an Elite was taken in for questioning and IIRC charged. Someone got him off. I now think I know who that son of an Elite was .... and who that man was who got him off ... a very powerful man ... loads of clout.
All information now whitewashed off the internet ... which I find very intersting, tbh.
As far as I am aware there was a gap then for about 5 years altho IIRC a child went missing in Madeira and another child vanished in peculiar circumstances.
Anyway, it all started up again in the Algarve region when Joana went missing in 2004 after what seems to have been a five year break. Then as stated previously, Carolina (late 2006) and Madeleine (2007)
So 1991 to 2007 is 16 years and it had been going on for that time .... 16 years. More or less every 18 months to 2 years a child had been taken.
I understand that you have a tendency to get carried away with your imaginings sadie, and those on the board who are familiar with that aspect of your character are generally tolerant of it ... but there are a lot of new members here now, and some of them may mistake your imaginings for factual information
Indeed, they might be forgiven for doing so, since you present your imaginings as if it were factual information
-
I haven't come across any tangible evidence to indicate what happened to that little girl. From the few documents online, it doesn't even seem clear that she ever even got home that night.
Has anyone found the original trial documents online (including the forensic report)?
No, Carana, if you're really interested you'll have to go to Portimão to consult the files that were never published because this case is a low profile one and was only talked about in the UK because of Madeleine McCann.
As Montclair said, the judgement of his case was confirmed by the higher court in Portugal. Doubting the Supremo Tribunal de Justiça equals doubting the whole Portuguese system of Justice. Of course this is your right, but I'm not sure it's fair to publicly insinuate they're wrong or biased or whatever as far as Joana and Madeleine are concerned.
-
You seem to forget that Leonor had confessed two days before the alleged torture in the company of her lawyer. She was being questioned by the other inspectors to find out where the body was hidden when she was supposedly beaten up. João Cipriano her brother confessed in court in front of the judge and a confession in court is irrevocable and the only valid one in Portugal. Any other confession made during the course of an investigation has no value unless corroborated by one made in the court room. How can you people support this horrible excuse for a mother. She was convicted and it was no miscarriage of justice FGS.
No she didn't, she didn't have a lawyer, until she attended court.
Have you read the grotesque descriptions Amaral used and said they had done, to Joanna? Cut her torso up and put in bags, placed in a car, that Joao drove, fed to the pigs, put in a fridge freezer. He couldn't make his mind up which to use. How did he know, all this?
Why was he allowed to use a video in court, when it couldn't be used as evidence? To sway the jury.
Doesn't it all sound familiar?.
Thank god Kate wasn't intimidated, and was never on her own with that lot.
-
No she didn't, she didn't have a lawyer, until she attended court.
Have you read the grotesque descriptions Amaral used and said they had done, to Joanna? Cut her torso up and put in bags, placed in a car, that Joao drove, fed to the pigs, put in a fridge freezer. He couldn't make his mind up which to use. How did he know, all this?
Why was he allowed to use a video in court, when it couldn't be used as evidence? To sway the jury.
Doesn't it all sound familiar?.
Thank god Kate wasn't intimidated, and was never on her own with that lot.
I've got to agree. Amaral has a very lurid and paranoid mind if his book is anything to go by. The fact that he's got a criminal conviction for falsifying evidence suggests that he would have gone to any lengths, if he had been allowed to, in order to get the result he wanted. Thankfully his superiors stepped in at the right time and got shot of him.
-
No, Carana, if you're really interested you'll have to go to Portimão to consult the files that were never published because this case is a low profile one and was only talked about in the UK because of Madeleine McCann.
As Montclair said, the judgement of his case was confirmed by the higher court in Portugal. Doubting the Supremo Tribunal de Justiça equals doubting the whole Portuguese system of Justice. Of course this is your right, but I'm not sure it's fair to publicly insinuate they're wrong or biased or whatever as far as Joana and Madeleine are concerned.
I find it a shame that the original documents aren't online.
I'm not criticising the entire system of justice. The supreme court may have found its hands tied in terms of the legal issues that it could address.
-
No, Carana, if you're really interested you'll have to go to Portimão to consult the files that were never published because this case is a low profile one and was only talked about in the UK because of Madeleine McCann
As Montclair said, the judgement of his case was confirmed by the higher court in Portugal. Doubting the Supremo Tribunal de Justiça equals doubting the whole Portuguese system of Justice. Of course this is your right, but I'm not sure it's fair to publicly insinuate they're wrong or biased or whatever as far as Joana and Madeleine are concerned.
*bit in bold*
How sad that this poor little girl, whose miserable life was cut short so brutally, is a mere foot note in the story of another child ... used, rather disgracefully, as a stick with which to beat Amaral
-
No she didn't, she didn't have a lawyer, until she attended court.
Have you read the grotesque descriptions Amaral used and said they had done, to Joanna? Cut her torso up and put in bags, placed in a car, that Joao drove, fed to the pigs, put in a fridge freezer. He couldn't make his mind up which to use. How did he know, all this?
Why was he allowed to use a video in court, when it couldn't be used as evidence? To sway the jury.
Doesn't it all sound familiar?.
Thank god Kate wasn't intimidated, and was never on her own with that lot.
As they say in Portugal : Mentir é feio. To lie is ugly and that is what you have just done. Leonor had a lawyer, his name is João Grade in the beginning and then all of a sudden Marcos Aragão Correio shows up and takes over. An arguido cannot be questioned without the presence of a lawyer. It's amazing what you people come up with! If Leonor Cipriano had not had a lawyer it would certainly have been a good reason to have her conviction overturned and this has not been the case.
-
Even if you choose to disregard the rule of law, there is simply no evidence that little joana was 'abducted' and you have no business producing a 'list' that asserts she was
You really must stop presenting your imaginings as though they were fact sadie ... it is wrong of you to do that
Produce any evidence, prior to the case - facts or forensics that Leonor and Joao did it. Cites please. prior to the case.
-
I've just been having a browse through the insane world of CMOMM - the posters there are already sending complaints to the BBC, before the show has even aired! Unbelievable! What truly idiotic specimens they are.
-
Produce any evidence, prior to the case - facts or forensics that Leonor and Joao did it. Cites please. prior to the case.
Little Joana's mother and uncle have been convicted of her murder, and are currently serving prison sentences for the crime ... it isn't necessary for me, or anyone else to 'produce evidence'
You, however, asserted that Joana was 'abducted'
Now .... you produce evidence - facts or forensics to prove that she was
You won't be able to, of course ... because it is something you 'imagine' happened
That is what you must stop doing sadie ... presenting your imaginings as if it is factual information
-
I've just been having a browse through the insane world of CMOMM - the posters there are already sending complaints to the BBC, before the show has even aired! Unbelievable! What truly idiotic specimens they are.
What is CMOMM ?
-
What is CMOMM ?
It's another forum that discusses this case, which has, unfortunately, gone downhill. I used to visit it more frequently, until I found this place.
-
As they say in Portugal : Mentir é feio. To lie is ugly and that is what you have just done. Leonor had a lawyer, his name is João Grade in the beginning and then all of a sudden Marcos Aragão Correio shows up and takes over. An arguido cannot be questioned without the presence of a lawyer. It's amazing what you people come up with! If Leonor Cipriano had not had a lawyer it would certainly have been a good reason to have her conviction overturned and this has not been the case.
No I haven't. and she didn't. Grade wasn't her lawyer when she was charged. You mean an Arguido, shouldn't be questioned without a lawyer, but she was. Fetched from the prison at 6 in the morning while the head was away.
Grade gave his position up after drugs were planted on him, or so he said. Then low and behold he goes on to be Amarals lawyer.
When Leonor was tortured there was no lawyer at the place. Fact confirmed by the Courts.
-
I find it a shame that the original documents aren't online.
I'm not criticising the entire system of justice. The supreme court may have found its hands tied in terms of the legal issues that it could address.
That's what will happen in the libel case even though Sadie thinks differently. Fortunately thanks to Anne's efforts they won't be able to cover it all up this time round.
ps Next Report about to be posted!
-
That's what will happen in the libel case even though Sadie thinks differently. Fortunately thanks to Anne's efforts they won't be able to cover it all up this time round.
ps Next Report about to be posted!
Power to the people.
-
Convicted on TORTURED out evidence = NO EVIDENCE
Nothing there, except TORTURED OUT CONFESSIONS
NO FORENSICS ... NOTHING
And in a case "solved" by a convicted liar, Amaral ... and another officer Cristavao who is currently up, on 7 (SEVEN) fraud and other charges. Of course with Cristavao, he has to be considered innocent ... until he has been proven otherwise
So you think this unsafe trial using only tortured out evidence, proves them as murderers, Icabod ?
Something lacking in your cognative perspectives there Icabod.
Thinking cap on, I cabod:
Is tortured out evidence a suitable form of evidence for convicting a person ... or is it a gross miscarriage of Justice?
IIRC the court didn't believe the 'motive' for her murder given by the PJ either (Incest).
So the court decreed that LC had been tortured. They didn't accept the motive for why LC would murder her daughter and no forensic evidence was submitted. PJ officers were later found guilty of perjury and altering documents. I believe LC was also persecuted via a smear campaign in the press to turn the public against her before she even got to court.
Why on Earth a re-trial at the very least didn't happen is amazing.
-
That's what will happen in the libel case even though Sadie thinks differently. Fortunately thanks to Anne's efforts they won't be able to cover it all up this time round.
ps Next Report about to be posted!
I haven't a clue what you actually mean, John.
I thought that this was a forum about potential miscarriages of justice.
I still haven't found any evidence that the child actually got home that evening.
-
I've got to agree. Amaral has a very lurid and paranoid mind if his book is anything to go by. The fact that he's got a criminal conviction for falsifying evidence suggests that he would have gone to any lengths, if he had been allowed to, in order to get the result he wanted. Thankfully his superiors stepped in at the right time and got shot of him.
This is just lazy distortion of the facts. You all know damn well what happened and that subsequently cipriano was found to have been lying anyway. His conviction was on a technicality and, according to some analysts (google it so you can't accuse me of cherry picking) driven by the prosecutor involved who had an axe to grind. To hold someone up as a potential serial offender due to a conviction on a technicality is just twisting facts to suit your agenda. It's clear to people what the McCann supporters are trying to do. Good luck with that when the defence witnesses start speaking @)(++(*
-
I find it a shame that the original documents aren't online.
I'm not criticising the entire system of justice. The supreme court may have found its hands tied in terms of the legal issues that it could address.
A shame ? Are you suggesting that the Portuguese Ministry of Justice must provide the files of any trial on line regardless of how quick you now fly from the UK to Faro ? Is it like this in your country or is it also a shame ?
-
To hold someone up as a potential serial offender due to a conviction on a technicality is just twisting facts to suit your agenda. It's clear to people what the McCann supporters are trying to do. Good luck with that when the defence witnesses start speaking @)(++(*
Yes, sincerely, good luck !
-
I've got to agree. Amaral has a very lurid and paranoid mind if his book is anything to go by. The fact that he's got a criminal conviction for falsifying evidence suggests that he would have gone to any lengths, if he had been allowed to, in order to get the result he wanted. Thankfully his superiors stepped in at the right time and got shot of him.
Amarals apparent lurid paranoid mind is far less disturbing to me than Kate & her thoughts of paedophiles tearing her daughters genitalia, & imagining her lying cold on the mortuary slab.
-
Amarals apparent lurid paranoid mind is far less disturbing to me than Kate & her thoughts of paedophiles tearing her daughters genitalia, & imagining her lying cold on the mortuary slab.
Those terrible thoughts would eventually push themselves into the minds of any parent who thought their child was in the hands of a paedaphile no matter how hard they tried to block them out. They would not be normal if they didn't.
-
Amarals apparent lurid paranoid mind is far less disturbing to me than Kate & her thoughts of paedophiles tearing her daughters genitalia, & imagining her lying cold on the mortuary slab.
In Kate's case they were fears; in Amaral's case they were prejudices. Important difference.
-
Those terrible thoughts would eventually push themselves into the minds of any parent who thought their child was in the hands of a paedaphile no matter how hard they tried to block them out. They would not be normal if they didn't.
To actually picture that specific stuff in your mind & to then keep having them same thoughts? Very sick mind.
Not every parent would think like that, in specific detail, no.
-
Those terrible thoughts would eventually push themselves into the minds of any parent who thought their child was in the hands of a paedaphile no matter how hard they tried to block them out. They would not be normal if they didn't.
Constantly the McCanns are accused of lying, yet when Kate the mother of an abducted child writes with honesty and openness that's pulled apart too. To me it was from inside the mind of a mother in pain, who had these terrible thoughts in her head.
Mrs.McCann isn't stupid, she must know that the horrendous thoughts crossing her mind, could well be happening. Damned if they don't and damned if they do.
-
Constantly the McCanns are accused of lying, yet when Kate the mother of an abducted child writes with honesty and openness that's pulled apart too. To me it was from inside the mind of a mother in pain, who had these terrible thoughts in her head.
Mrs.McCann isn't stupid, she must know that the horrendous thoughts crossing her mind, could well be happening. Damned if they don't and damned if they do.
"allegedly" abducted child.
-
Constantly the McCanns are accused of lying, yet when Kate the mother of an abducted child writes with honesty and openness that's pulled apart too. To me it was from inside the mind of a mother in pain, who had these terrible thoughts in her head.
Mrs.McCann isn't stupid, she must know that the horrendous thoughts crossing her mind, could well be happening. Damned if they don't and damned if they do.
8@??)( Nothing that The Mccanns do is right in the eyes of some. As you say damned if they dont and damned if they do.
Poor Kate, with all these nightmare thoughts.
As a lady doctor with gentle demeanour, she may well have been given the rape cases to assess and treat. Possibly including child rape. She would know exactly what happens on occasions
Poor Kate 8(8-))
-
Amarals apparent lurid paranoid mind is far less disturbing to me than Kate & her thoughts of paedophiles tearing her daughters genitalia, & imagining her lying cold on the mortuary slab.
She was a doctor. I don't find it particularly surprising that she had those kind of thoughts. I am a little surprised that she spelled them out so graphically in a book she wrote for her twins and possibly Madeleine herself.
-
She was a doctor. I don't find it particularly surprising that she had those kind of thoughts. I am a little surprised that she spelled them out so graphically in a book she wrote for her twins and possibly Madeleine herself.
Totally, a bit ott don't you think.
-
To actually picture that specific stuff in your mind & to then keep having them same thoughts? Very sick mind.
Not every parent would think like that, in specific detail, no.
So what do you think a parent who thought their child was in the hands of a paedaphile would be imagining then? They are sexual predators - vile monsters who have taken a child for one reason and one reason only. How can the implications of that not enter the parents' minds at some stage.
Unless a person has been there themselves - how can anyone purport to know more about the horrific thoughts of a mother who is actually going through that worst of all nightmares - than the mother herself.
Its the paedaphile who is sick in the mind - not the parents.
-
To actually picture that specific stuff in your mind & to then keep having them same thoughts? Very sick mind.
Not every parent would think like that, in specific detail, no.
Strongly disagree there.
An abductor had taken Kate's child, she was in torment of what she was imagining her child was going through. Of course these thoughts would enter the mother of a child who the parent thought had been abducted.
Kate chose to tell in her book the thoughts [probably not all] that were going through her mind. If you think that is odd then you really cannot understand what this mother was going through and god forbid never will.
-
So what do you think a parent who thought their child was in the hands of a paedaphile would be imagining then? They are sexual predators - vile monsters who have taken a child for one reason and one reason only. How can the implications of that not enter the parents' minds at some stage.
Unless a person has been there themselves - how can anyone purport to know more about the horrific thoughts of a mother who is actually going through that worst of all nightmares - than the mother herself.
Its the paedaphile who is sick in the mind - not the parents.
8@??)(
-
Totally, a bit ott don't you think.
No I don't John, Kate was giving an insight into what she was going through. Just touching on the hideous imaginings that would enter the mind of a distraught mother who thought her little girl had been taken by paedophiles.
Yes Kate said she had written her book for Madeleine and the twins. Obviously I would think when they are old enough to understand what she had written.
-
There is no proof Madeleine was abducted by an organised paedophile gang, with egg shaped heads, efficient at rapid ,traceless child abduction.
I know it & so does Kate.
-
There is no proof Madeleine was abducted by an organised paedophile gang, with egg shaped heads, efficient at rapid ,traceless child abduction.
I know it & so does Kate.
Do you know who produced the egg shaped egg? The PJ.
You KNOW do you, well give your information to SY.
-
Do you know who produced the egg shaped egg? The PJ.
You KNOW do you, well give your information to SY.
Likewise, you know the girl is in the hands of paedophile gangs, you go help SY with that one,
I'll stick to the most likely scenario, the one the UK police agreed on, she is most likely dead & her parents hid her body.
-
Likewise, you know the girl is in the hands of paedophile gangs, you go help SY with that one,
I'll stick to the most likely scenario, the one the UK police agreed on, she is most likely dead & her parents hid her body.
No, I don't know if Madeleine is in the hands of a Paedophile gang. It is only a possibility.
You stick to your scenario, it's is wrong as SY has said the McCann's are in no way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.
-
The UK police do not think Madeleine is dead
No way do they think they hid her body.
What sort of sicko are you?
A sicko that uses logic, as opposed to someone willing to believe nonsense theories of elite paedophile gang involvement.
-
A sicko that uses logic, as opposed to someone willing to believe nonsense theories of elite paedophile gang involvement.
Well can you use your logic and explain how the McCanns without a car, and with no knowledge of the area or friends living in PdL managed to hide their daughter's body in a place where the biggest search in the history of Portugal couldn't find it. And then after finding this unfindable place, how did they manage to move it again in the full glare of the worlds press to another place - and why would they want to anyway when they had already found the perfect place? Where's the logic in any of that?
-
Well can you use your logic and explain how the McCanns without a car, and with no knowledge of the area or friends living in PdL managed to hide their daughter's body in a place where the biggest search in the history of Portugal couldn't find it. And then after finding this unfindable place, how did they manage to move it again in the full glare of the worlds press to another place - and why would they want to anyway when they had already found the perfect place? Where's the logic in any of that?
OK, I'll have a go,
1) Give body to someone else to hide temporarily, in a house which won't be getting searched,
2) Hire a car,
3) Get a relative or friend* to take the body from the house, hidden of course & move the body to somewhere outside the search radius.
*Whilst were told the McCann's had no friends or relatives in de luz, we can't rule out the possibility that one of their group of 7 friends did.
That do?
-
Likewise, you know the girl is in the hands of paedophile gangs, you go help SY with that one,
I'll stick to the most likely scenario, the one the UK police agreed on, she is most likely dead & her parents hid her body.
wheres your proof on that one ?
-
wheres your proof on that one ?
Did the UK police not assist in the original PJ investigation?
-
I'm sure I have replied to this post before tonight.
Obviousy deleted.
Again I think your post is utter tosh.
8)><(
-
I'm sure I have replied to this post before tonight.
Obviousy deleted.
Again I think your post is utter tosh.
yep its bollox 8((()*/
-
OK, I'll have a go,
1) Give body to someone else to hide temporarily, in a house which won't be getting searched,
2) Hire a car,
3) Get a relative or friend* to take the body from the house, hidden of course & move the body to somewhere outside the search radius.
*Whilst were told the McCann's had no friends or relatives in de luz, we can't rule out the possibility that one of their group of 7 friends did.
That do?
I never said it was fact, or the only possible scenario,
I was ask to explain how, I had a go, but merely calling it tosh or testicles does not disprove it's possibility.
-
I'm so sorry Wonderfulspam but the mere idea that you could make such a post turns my stomach.
Well when your stomach has settled, perhaps you could counter the hypothetical scenaria presented with logical argument, rather than emotive revulsion
-
Well when your stomach has settled, perhaps you could counter the hypothetical scenaria presented with logical argument, rather than emotive revulsion
8((()*/
-
Tosh is so more acceptable don't you think? @)(++(*
8((()*/
-
I never said it was fact, or the only possible scenario,
I was ask to explain how, I had a go, but merely calling it tosh or testicles does not disprove it's possibility.
when are you lot gong to "get it" madeleine's parents "are not" suspects and are not being investigated in the disappearance of their daughter madeleine.
"Neither her parents
or any members of the group
that were with her
are persons of interest
or suspects."-DCI REDWOOD
8((()*/
-
when are you lot gong to "get it" madeleine's parents "are not" suspects and are not being investigated in the disappearance of their daughter madeleine.
"Neither her parents
or any members of the group
that were with her
are persons of interest
or suspects."-DCI REDWOOD
8((()*/
And then let us suppose they were suspects,
Would he be announcing that?
-
Lets not suppose they are suspects hey?
They are not. So your stupid theories are just that.
Stupid.
Have the police never mislead the public or suspects before?
-
Have the police never mislead the public or suspects before?
Don't they even occasionally have them make 'public appeals' ... so that they can be observed by criminal profilers ( like Lee Rainbow ) ?
-
Don't they even occasionally even have them make 'public appeals' ... so that they can be observed by criminal profilers ( like Lee Rainbow ) ?
Mick Phillpott, Tracey Andrews
-
Mick Phillpott, Tracey Andrews
You beat me to it. Tracie Andrews.
My father in law plays golf with her boyfriend's dad. 8(8-))
-
You beat me to it. Tracie Andrews.
My father in law plays golf with her boyfriend's dad. 8(8-))
You have my deepest sympathy,
1, In respect of not beating me to it,
2, for having even the faintest connection to her.
-
Keep repeating it Benita.
One day you may get through to the intellectually challenged. 8((()*/
8((()*/
-
You have my deepest sympathy,
1, In respect of not beating me to it,
2, for having even the faintest connection to her.
My father in law really does still play golf with the dad. It was a huge story here, and Tracie is out now, with dark hair, surgical enhancement to her jaw, a new boyfriend and a job in a pub. She's basically picked up her life as though nothing happened. She looks like Kat Slater from Eastenders.
-
My father in law really does still play golf with the dad. It was a huge story here, and Tracie is out now, with dark hair, surgical enhancement to her jaw, a new boyfriend and a job in a pub. She's basically picked up her life as though nothing happened. She looks like Kat Slater from Eastenders.
No improvement in her looks then.
-
No improvement in her looks then.
Ha!! Not really. The mahoosive underbite got corrected, but she's still got eyes like scary headlamps.
She's on facebook. So I'm told.
-
OK, I'll have a go,
1) Give body to someone else to hide temporarily, in a house which won't be getting searched,
2) Hire a car,
3) Get a relative or friend* to take the body from the house, hidden of course & move the body to somewhere outside the search radius.
*Whilst were told the McCann's had no friends or relatives in de luz, we can't rule out the possibility that one of their group of 7 friends did.
That do?
You don't mention any timelines - can you elucidate? When did all this happen?
When did they give the body to someone else? When did they hire a car and who from and how? When and how did they establish which houses would be searched and which wouldn't? Why are these relatives and friends all so eager to become accomplices? Do you know anyone who would help you hide the body of a dead child?
-
You don't mention any timelines - can you elucidate? When did all this happen?
When did they give the body to someone else? When did they hire a car and who from and how? When and how did they establish which houses would be searched and which wouldn't? Why are these relatives and friends all so eager to become accomplices? Do you know anyone who would help you hide the body of a dead child?
Excellent Benice
Now that's engaging in debate !
-
It sure is.
And your reply to Benices excellent post is?
Benice wasn't debating with me
... I was just congratulating her for taking on the substance of an argument that had been raised by another ... rather than just batting it away defensively
-
Benice wasn't debating with me
... I was just congratulating her for taking on the substance of an argument that had been raised by another ... rather than just batting it away defensively
Thanks for that Icab. Much appreciated.
-
Madeleine McCann's parents are "greatly encouraged" by new information about the disappearance of their daughter, they said in a statement.
Published: Sun, October 6, 2013
0Comments
A new Crimewatch appeal is being launched for information on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
A reconstruction of the "latest, most detailed understanding" of the events around the time she went missing will be shown on BBC Crimewatch on Monday October 14.
It comes after the Metropolitan Police revealed a vast log of mobile phone traffic could be the key to finding out what happened to the-then three-year-old.
Scotland Yard detectives, who have interviewed 442 people as part of their review-turned- investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, hope to track down as many people present in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on or around May 3 2007 as possible.
Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, said: "We are greatly encouraged by new information coming to light with pieces of the jigsaw now fitting together. We are really hopeful that the forthcoming appeal on Crimewatch will bring further new evidence which will take us a step closer to finding Madeleine and to bringing those responsible for her abduction to justice."
A three-year-old actress is to play Madeleine in the Crimewatch reconstruction, as a small production team from the programme spent a week filming abroad for the new appeal.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, the senior investigating officer, said: "We now believe we have the most complete picture to date of the events surrounding her disappearance.
"We are now making targeted and new appeals for help from the public. I truly believe there are people out there who hold the key to Madeleine's disappearance, and that so far they may be completely unaware of that fact."
Crimewatch presenter Kirsty Young speaks to the McCanns in the new programme, while presenter Matthew Amroliwala has been to Praia da Luz to explore the new focus of the police investigation.
The McCanns and Mr Redwood will also be speaking to Kirsty live in the studio.
Crimewatch editor Joe Mather said: "We've been working very closely with the Metropolitan Police on a new Madeleine McCann appeal for several months.
"We're very hopeful that this major reconstruction along with the substantial new lines of enquiry will prompt viewers with vital information to get in touch with the officers in studio on the night of the programme."
Earlier this week, Scotland Yard revealed that since launching its own investigation, 41 people of interest have been identified, including 15 UK nationals, up from 38 people of interest including 12 UK nationals established in July.
Detectives have issued 31 international letters of request (ILOR) to mostly European countries in relation to some of the persons of interest as well as accessing phone records.
A large but "manageable" list of phone numbers identified as being present in Praia da Luz - though not necessarily used to make phone calls - has been drawn up by detectives with a "significant" number unattributed to any named person.
And significantly, police officers are now able to create a log showing calls being made at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.
The latest appeal will also be broadcast in Holland and Germany.
Madeleine went missing from a holiday apartment as her parents dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
The Portuguese investigation officially closed but authorities there are backing the Scotland Yard inquiry and officers from both countries will work together in pursuing new leads.
The Metropolitan Police now has a team of six Portuguese detectives based in Faro, who are carrying out inquiries on its behalf.
The McCanns are currently suing former police chief Goncalo Amaral for libel over claims in the book The Truth Of The Lie.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/434650/McCanns-encouraged-by-information.
-
Thanks drummer for that.
-
Thanks drummer for that.
You are in North America, are you not Sherlock ? ... are you not aware that 'The Express ' is not the equivalent of the Washington Post ?
-
You are in North America, are you not Sherlock ? ... are you not aware that 'The Express ' is not the equivalent of the Washington Post ?
I was thanking drummer for taking the trouble to post at this hour. My opinion of 'Express' staff writers is another discussion
-
I was thanking drummer for taking the trouble to post at this hour. My opinion of 'Express' staff writers is another discussion
That was nice of you ... but to stretch the point, what is your opinion of Express staff writers ?
... what do you make of that newspaper article drummer posted ?
-
You don't mention any timelines - can you elucidate? When did all this happen?
When did they give the body to someone else? When did they hire a car and who from and how? When and how did they establish which houses would be searched and which wouldn't? Why are these relatives and friends all so eager to become accomplices? Do you know anyone who would help you hide the body of a dead child?
When did this all happen?
Sometime in 2007.
When did they give the body to someone else?
Sometime in 2007.
When did they hire a car?
When they required one.
Who from?
A hire car company.
How?
By paying the necessary funds to the hire car company. I'm amused you fail to understand the concept of exchange of money for goods & services.
When & how did they establish which houses would be searched & which wouldn't?
Sometime in 2007 & the police couldn't enter an occupied home without a warrant, therefore not every house would be fully searched.
Why are these relatives & friends all so eager to become accomplices?
I never said they were.
Do you know anyone who would help you hide the body of a dead child?
Yes.
-
Just heard that the Crimewatch program will not be shown in Portugal as the Portuguese have had enough of the hype over this case.
The so called reconstruction was done in Spain, so completely valueless, and as Anne Diamond just said on SkY TV, what do WE really know from $5,000,000 and 30 DETECTIVES WORKING At SY.
There are 38/41 persons of interest.
Forget the hype in the newspapers today, that's it.
Oh apparently some lawyer speaking in a pub to someone else said he saw Madeleine..............
Well that's it case solved. 8((()*/
-
Stop your mocking Stephen. It really sickens me to see someone so full of glee that a crime watch appeal for a missing child will not be shown in the country where she disappeared.
How can you be so happy about this? Don't you want the case to be solved?
-
Stop your mocking Stephen. It really sickens me to see someone so full of glee that a crime watch appeal for a missing child will not be shown in the country where she disappeared.
How can you be so happy about this? Don't you want the case to be solved?
Mocking, NO.
I want the truth to come out.
Not hysteria and propaganda.
As to the Portuguese people, how can you not get, that they have had enough of the abuse and hysteria they have received in the UK press and people like you.
-
Mocking, NO.
I want the truth to come out.
Not hysteria and propaganda.
As to the Portuguese people, how can you not get, that they have had enough of the abuse and hysteria they have received in the UK press and people like you.
It looks as though you want the truth to come out Stephen, you are full of joy at the prospect of the Portuguese people not seeing the Crime watch appeal. Full of smiley faces.
So now you speak for all the Portuguese people.
You are so important aren't you, it's all hysteria and propaganda, how do you know that?
What are you talking about 'people like me' what you mean discussing the McCann case on a forum with you?
-
Yet another lie in the Express.
k and g 'banned' the reconstruction in Portugal.
What a load of cobblers.
-
No, I don't know if Madeleine is in the hands of a Paedophile gang. It is only a possibility.
You stick to your scenario, it's is wrong as SY has said the McCann's are in no way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.
There have been quite a few posts about SY saying that the Mccanns are not suspects, I'm quoting yours Lace cause it's the first I came across this morning.
TrueSardine posted a link to an interview with Dr Amaral on another thread yesterday and this line caught my eye
Once again, we were inhibited. We thought about asking the parents to test their hair, in order to understand whether there were sedatives, but as soon as it was found out, it would be said that we were suspecting the parents, and it was being avoided at all costs that it became public that those suspicions existed.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/interview-with-gonalo-amaral-cadaver.html
My bold by the way. I'm just wondering whether SY could feel the same way?
With thanks to truesardine for finding the link.
-
There have been quite a few posts about SY saying that the Mccanns are not suspects, I'm quoting yours Lace cause it's the first I came across this morning.
TrueSardine posted a link to an interview with Dr Amaral on another thread yesterday and this line caught my eye
Once again, we were inhibited. We thought about asking the parents to test their hair, in order to understand whether there were sedatives, but as soon as it was found out, it would be said that we were suspecting the parents, and it was being avoided at all costs that it became public that those suspicions existed.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/interview-with-gonalo-amaral-cadaver.html
My bold by the way. I'm just wondering whether SY could feel the same way?
With thanks to truesardine for finding the link.
I'd take anything Amaral says with a pinch of salt.
By the by, I always struggled with his obsession with sedation - if he thought the kids were drugged to keep them asleep, why did he also think Maddie may have been climbing around the sofa?
-
Yet another lie in the Express.
k and g 'banned' the reconstruction in Portugal.
What a load of cobblers.
and you know its cobblers because ?? >@@(*&)
-
I'd take anything Amaral says with a pinch of salt.
By the by, I always struggled with his obsession with sedation - if he thought the kids were drugged to keep them asleep, why did he also think Maddie may have been climbing around the sofa?
I take anything the McCanns say with a mountain of salt, they have changed their stories so often you never know what is true and what is a lie.
Why didn't the twins wake up during all of the hullabaloo after Madeleine disappeared? Why did the McCanns not allow the twins to be questioned? Their excuse was that their language skills were not very good. Looks like they were not that desperate to find out what happened that night. Of course, Madeleine could have been sedated and fell off the sofa because she was groggy.
-
I take anything the McCanns say with a mountain of salt, they have changed their stories so often you never know what is true and what is a lie.
Why didn't the twins wake up during all of the hullabaloo after Madeleine disappeared? Why did the McCanns not allow the twins to be questioned? Their excuse was that their language skills were not very good. Looks like they were not that desperate to find out what happened that night. Of course, Madeleine could have been sedated and fell off the sofa because she was groggy.
8@??)(
-
I take anything the McCanns say with a mountain of salt, they have changed their stories so often you never know what is true and what is a lie.
Why didn't the twins wake up during all of the hullabaloo after Madeleine disappeared? Why did the McCanns not allow the twins to be questioned? Their excuse was that their language skills were not very good. Looks like they were not that desperate to find out what happened that night. Of course, Madeleine could have been sedated and fell off the sofa because she was groggy.
The problem I have with this sort of senario is that they were both doctors and could easily have weathered any fall-out over a tragic accident caused by having medicated the children themselves, if this had been the case.
-
There have been quite a few posts about SY saying that the Mccanns are not suspects, I'm quoting yours Lace cause it's the first I came across this morning.
TrueSardine posted a link to an interview with Dr Amaral on another thread yesterday and this line caught my eye
Once again, we were inhibited. We thought about asking the parents to test their hair, in order to understand whether there were sedatives, but as soon as it was found out, it would be said that we were suspecting the parents, and it was being avoided at all costs that it became public that those suspicions existed.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/interview-with-gonalo-amaral-cadaver.html
My bold by the way. I'm just wondering whether SY could feel the same way?
With thanks to truesardine for finding the link.
Amaral's claim doesn't tally with the statements of the FL Officers who record the McCanns asking them to make enquiries to the PJ about the possibililty of sedation. So the McCanns were certainly not 'inhibiting' Amaral - quite the opposite - they were trying to pursue the matter.
I note Amaral says ''It would be said...' Not ...''It was said. He is making his own assumptions.
How could testing for drugs be detrimental to the parents - when it was highly likely that an abductor may have used them?
IMO it's Amaral trying to excuse the fact that he ignored the parents enquiries/questions to him made via the FLOs, on this subject.
IMO the first thing SY would have done at the beginning of the review would be to put the parents and their friends under the microscope in order to rule them in or out before even attempting to look elsewhere. And I have no doubt that same advice that would have been given to the PJ from UK police - if advice had been requested. It's simply normal practice.
-
Yet another lie in the Express.
k and g 'banned' the reconstruction in Portugal.
What a load of cobblers.
Yes, Kate & Gerry are so important politicaly, legally, globaly these days, they have the power to choose how police investigations are undertaken & indeed, in which direction planet earth rotates.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVrrP1TIYAADHoz.jpg)
(http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag1/gilet2013/600ADffffHoz_zps54151771.jpg)
Gerry and Kate McCann will assist in a Crimewatch Reconstruction of the case on October 14th.
Probably another Panorama re-do: "poor us" mistreated parents.
I don't believe the Metropolitan Police is behind that sort of entertainment show - if they are then the little respect I still fight to have for them is down the gutter.
-
Last 4th of October, both the PJ National Director and the Attorney General gave an interview in SIC TV channel, where they stated that 3/4 SY agents had been to the Algarve for a couple of meetings with the Faro PJ Director. So far only a few diligences required by the UK rogatory were carried on, and all involved portuguese people and none implied questioning those persons.
The phone analysis the SY is carrying on are based on the initial PJ logs which were done just weeks/months after the event - at that time it was not possible to take much from those phone information for the reasons recently invoked by the British themselves, there is no way to tag PAYG phones to their owners. What is different now, more than 5 years later????
The Press is just publishing bullocks in order to sell.
P.S. Seven or six years ago, when I traveled to spend a few days in another country, the first thing I would do when arriving at the airport was to buy a SIM card that I could dispose of as soon as I went home. I bet that was what most people did.
Trying to find out who were the people that stayed in PDL by their cell phones is a joke.
-
Last 4th of October, both the PJ National Director and the Attorney General gave an interview in SIC TV channel, where they stated that 3/4 SY agents had been to the Algarve for a couple of meetings with the Faro PJ Director. So far only a few diligences required by the UK rogatory were carried on, and all involved portuguese people and none implied questioning those persons.
The phone analysis the SY is carrying on are based on the initial PJ logs which were done just weeks/months after the event - at that time it was not possible to take much from those phone information for the reasons recently invoked by the British themselves, there is no way to tag PAYG phones to their owners. What is different now, more than 5 years later????
The Press is just publishing bullocks in order to sell.
P.S. Seven or six years ago, when I traveled to spend a few days in another country, the first thing I would do when arriving at the airport was to buy a SIM card that I could dispose of as soon as I went home. I bet that was what most people did.
Trying to find out who were the people that stayed in PDL by their cell phones is a joke.
While I largely agree with you, I wonder if it is possible to eliminate the phones ( not people) that were no where near the holiday complex at the time? I'm not sure how reliable triangulation would be.
-
When did this all happen?
Sometime in 2007.
When did they give the body to someone else?
Sometime in 2007.
When did they hire a car?
When they required one.
Who from?
A hire car company.
How?
By paying the necessary funds to the hire car company. I'm amused you fail to understand the concept of exchange of money for goods & services.
When & how did they establish which houses would be searched & which wouldn't?
Sometime in 2007 & the police couldn't enter an occupied home without a warrant, therefore not every house would be fully searched.
Why are these relatives & friends all so eager to become accomplices?
I never said they were.
Do you know anyone who would help you hide the body of a dead child?
Yes.
Welcome to the forum, Wonderfulspam. What do you make of the fridge theory if I may ask?
-
While I largely agree with you, I wonder if it is possible to eliminate the phones ( not people) that were no where near the holiday complex at the time? I'm not sure how reliable triangulation would be.
I really don't know. But you can have a look at the PJ files, interesting data:
-Phone information http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm)
-deleted calls from the McCannhttp://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm)
-
I really don't know. But you can have a look at the PJ files, interesting data:
-Phone information http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm)
-deleted calls from the McCannhttp://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm)
I think you'll find that the Met are looking at a lot more phone data than what you have linked to. You see, they are looking at all phone data, and not confining themselves to the Data that relates to the McCanns and their friends, who have been eliminated from the enquiry.
-
I think you'll find that the Met are looking at a lot more phone data than what you have linked to. You see, they are looking at all phone data, and not confining themselves to the Data that relates to the McCanns and their friends, who have been eliminated from the enquiry.
I know. And I find it very disturbing that the Media has been announcing that the McCann and friends have been eliminated from the enquiry without offering any explanation for that. I may be wrong, but I don't believe what the Press puts out as coming from the SY.
But I will believe it if there is a video interview where someone responsible from SY says it.
-
I know. And I find it very disturbing that the Media has been announcing that the McCann and friends have been eliminated from the enquiry without offering any explanation for that. I may be wrong, but I don't believe what the Press puts out as coming from the SY.
They Met don't owe you an explanation. As for what comes from the press and what comes direct from the Met, its quite easy to tell between the two. The Met gives briefings and makes public statements which can be relied upon. anything that comes from an unnamed police source is probably made up.
-
As SY appear to have, as yet, no idea as to what happened, merely a couple of theories, I don't really see how they can have definitively eliminated anyone from their inquiries.
-
As SY appear to have, as yet, no idea as to what happened, merely a couple of theories, I don't really see how they can have definitively eliminated anyone from their inquiries.
Then you don't understand police work.
-
As SY appear to have, as yet, no idea as to what happened, merely a couple of theories, I don't really see how they can have definitively eliminated anyone from their inquiries.
The Met have been on this for 2.5 years, jassi. Do you not imagine that they have done all the groundwork to eliminate the McCanns and the holiday party from their enquiries? In fact DCI Redwood stated back on 4/7/13 that they were not persons of interest.
Or do you imagine that you know better than those who have to hand all the relevant information?
-
As SY appear to have, as yet, no idea as to what happened, merely a couple of theories, I don't really see how they can have definitively eliminated anyone from their inquiries.
That's a pretty insulting indictment of the work of the PJ, who spent the best part of two years investigating the McCanns and could find no evidence against them.
-
That was nice of you ... but to stretch the point, what is your opinion of Express staff writers ?
... what do you make of that newspaper article drummer posted ?
Having re-read today's Express article this morning, my overwhelming feeling is one of sadness. After six and a half years, we are reading that police are looking at phone traffic in PdL, and that this is one of the main aspects of their investigation. So sad that a little girl is still missing, partly because basic matters were not properly investigated in those early days.
One would have thought that a proper analysis of phone data would have been one of the first things an investigating force would have taken charge of, but as we know, police only had a cursory look at the matter at the time.
We can debate endlessly about phone technology, and the limitations on what can be accomplished in an analysis of phone traffic given the technology then, but the bottom line is that this is only one of many matters that were swept under the rug during those crucial first few hours and days of the investigation. If not for the failure to conduct the early investigation in a professional manner, it is very possible that Madeleine would have been found and we wouldn't be sitting here today having these debates.
I am not saying anything at all new here, I realise. I am just struck today by how sad it is that after all this time, police are still doing basic spadework.
Much as I am willing to extend criticism to the McCanns if they appear to be doing something counterproductive in the search for their daughter, the bottom line is that they and successive detectives have had to direct enormous resources merely at making up for some of the very basic measures that ought to have been undertaken by police at the start.
-
I think that The Met do not expect it to get as far as showing the reconstruction. The mention of phones will have set the hare running.
-
I think that The Met do not expect it to get as far as showing the reconstruction. The mention of phones will have set the hare running.
I see.
So you're a member of the Operation Grange team then are you, cherrylight?
-
They Met don't owe you an explanation. As for what comes from the press and what comes direct from the Met, its quite easy to tell between the two. The Met gives briefings and makes public statements which can be relied upon. anything that comes from an unnamed police source is probably made up.
Fair enough. You keep with your Press sources and I'll keep with my no media sources.
-
Don't understand the question. 8-)(--)
-
Having re-read today's Express article this morning, my overwhelming feeling is one of sadness. After six and a half years, we are reading that police are looking at phone traffic in PdL, and that this is one of the main aspects of their investigation. So sad that a little girl is still missing, partly because basic matters were not properly investigated in those early days.
One would have thought that a proper analysis of phone data would have been one of the first things an investigating force would have taken charge of, but as we know, police only had a cursory look at the matter at the time.
We can debate endlessly about phone technology, and the limitations on what can be accomplished in an analysis of phone traffic given the technology then, but the bottom line is that this is only one of many matters that were swept under the rug during those crucial first few hours and days of the investigation. If not for the failure to conduct the early investigation in a professional manner, it is very possible that Madeleine would have been found and we wouldn't be sitting here today having these debates.
I am not saying anything at all new here, I realise. I am just struck today by how sad it is that after all this time, police are still doing basic spadework.
Much as I am willing to extend criticism to the McCanns if they appear to be doing something counterproductive in the search for their daughter, the bottom line is that they and successive detectives have had to direct enormous resources merely at making up for some of the very basic measures that ought to have been undertaken by police at the start.
Maybe you should give less attention to the Express, that since they had to pay £550.000 to the McCann became their apologists, and start looking at the PJ files before accusing anyone of anything.
I feel as frustrated as you, but not about the flabbergast theories around this case, I feel frustrated that if there was any chance that a little 3 year old was alive in May 4th 2007, nobody that should have protected her, and I mean absolutely no single person in her family and friends moved a hand to help her. The Police and many anonymous people looked for her that night and for countless days, but not her parents, family or friends. Twelve hours later not a single car in the Algarve could travel without being thoroughly inspected. The sea, the land, the airports, everything was under scrutiny. And yet it is the police that is to blame and not the ones that probably allowed her to have a fatal accident! It's frustrating indeed.
And I don't want to believe that the Scotland Yard is covering up a crime like this.
And I'm sorry Sherlock, I don't want you to be the target of my frustration.
-
Maybe you should give less attention to the Express, that since they had to pay £550.000 to the McCann became their apologists, and start looking at the PJ files before accusing anyone of anything.
I feel as frustrated as you, but not about the flabbergast theories around this case, I feel frustrated that if there was any chance that a little 3 year old was alive in May 4th 2007, nobody that should have protected her, and I mean absolutely no single person in her family and friends moved a hand to help her. The Police and many anonymous people looked for her that night and for countless days, but not her parents, family or friends. Twelve hours later not a single car in the Algarve could travel without being thoroughly inspected. The sea, the land, the airports, everything was under scrutiny. And yet it is the police that is to blame and not the ones that probably allowed her to have a fatal accident! It's frustrating indeed.
And I don't want to believe that the Scotland Yard is covering up a crime like this.
And I'm sorry Sherlock, I don't want you to be the target of my frustration.
For goodness sake Luz - there were hundreds of reporters - all starved of information - lying in wait - desperate for copy to send back to their newspapers. Do you really think anyone in the McCann family could have gone out to search without being mobbed by the Press! IIRC even a couple of the Nannies were moved out of the area shortly afterwards - and IMO for the very same reason.
The McCanns knew that a huge search was already being conducted in PdL - and anyway the advice from the police is always for the parents to stay at home, where they can be swiftly and easily contacted if necessary.
Your 'expectations' of parents who are in the first throes of the worst nightmare of every mother and father on the planet are unrealistic IMO and show no compassion or understanding whatsoever.
-
Maybe you should give less attention to the Express, that since they had to pay £550.000 to the McCann became their apologists, and start looking at the PJ files before accusing anyone of anything.
I feel as frustrated as you, but not about the flabbergast theories around this case, I feel frustrated that if there was any chance that a little 3 year old was alive in May 4th 2007, nobody that should have protected her, and I mean absolutely no single person in her family and friends moved a hand to help her. The Police and many anonymous people looked for her that night and for countless days, but not her parents, family or friends. Twelve hours later not a single car in the Algarve could travel without being thoroughly inspected. The sea, the land, the airports, everything was under scrutiny. And yet it is the police that is to blame and not the ones that probably allowed her to have a fatal accident! It's frustrating indeed.
And I don't want to believe that the Scotland Yard is covering up a crime like this.
And I'm sorry Sherlock, I don't want you to be the target of my frustration.
I understand what you are saying. I think we are all frustrated with various aspects of this situation.
As you know, Luz, I am not slow to criticise the McCanns and their friends and family, who are the people ultimately responsible for what happened here. The flaws in the early investigation are by no means the only problematic elements in this case.
All police forces make mistakes - there have been enormous miscarriages of justice in Britain owing to bad police work- and therefore I don't think it is unreasonable to point out some of the flaws in the investigation in PdL, admitted even by Amaral.
-
One would have thought that a proper analysis of phone data would have been one of the first things an investigating force would have taken charge of, but as we know, police only had a cursory look at the matter at the time.
Have you read the phone date analyses that are in the files ?
Do you think the parents' cellphones should have been analysed straight away (revealing the deleted calls which, I reckon, can have been deleted for being too private) ?
Do you think that a person who abducts without the help of a car has a cell phone ? If he has, what for ? To call a taxi ? ;)
-
I don't think it is unreasonable to point out some of the flaws in the investigation in PdL, admitted even by Amaral.
It isn't, but it's difficult to imagine (imo) that, had Madeleine been abducted, not a single clue had been left that could be investigated.
I don't like the way Facelessman carries Madeleine.
I don't like the feeling the Smith couple had about the carrier carrying her clumsily.
I don't like Eddie getting excited as soon as the 5A's door was open.
I don't like Rex ignoring the trail through the car park that Facelessman necessarily used.
-
Your 'expectations' of parents who are in the first throes of the worst nightmare of every mother and father on the planet are unrealistic IMO and show no compassion or understanding whatsoever.
Are you aware this is argumentum ad hominem ?
-
Last 4th of October, both the PJ National Director and the Attorney General gave an interview in SIC TV channel, where they stated that 3/4 SY agents had been to the Algarve for a couple of meetings with the Faro PJ Director. So far only a few diligences required by the UK rogatory were carried on, and all involved portuguese people and none implied questioning those persons.
The phone analysis the SY is carrying on are based on the initial PJ logs which were done just weeks/months after the event - at that time it was not possible to take much from those phone information for the reasons recently invoked by the British themselves, there is no way to tag PAYG phones to their owners. What is different now, more than 5 years later????
The Press is just publishing bullocks in order to sell.
P.S. Seven or six years ago, when I traveled to spend a few days in another country, the first thing I would do when arriving at the airport was to buy a SIM card that I could dispose of as soon as I went home. I bet that was what most people did.
Trying to find out who were the people that stayed in PDL by their cell phones is a joke.
In Italy as a consequence of the anti terrorism provisions you would need your passport or ID card to obtain an Italian SIm card whether this is the case in other countries I do not know.
-
James Murray says police have found part of the needle in the haystack. The Mirror says...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV7GIDXCAAA5XUg.jpg)
8)-)))
-
James Murray says police have found part of the needle in the haystack. The Mirror says...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV7GIDXCAAA5XUg.jpg)
8)-)))
Well, if she was still alive and being held then this may not have been the shrewdest announcement they could have made. We'll see.
-
Well, if she was still alive and being held then this may not have been the shrewdest announcement they could have made. We'll see.
Just made the same observation on another thread CE.
I really can't imagine any paper would now quote a 'family source', when they know the McCanns are so litigious, if that's not indeed where it came from. Which begs the question why does it seem the McCanns are doing their damnedest to spin this development instead of just leaving it be ?
-
Well, if she was still alive and being held then this may not have been the shrewdest announcement they could have made. We'll see.
It's just Mirror hype I'm sure CE. Murray's closer to the truth no doubt.