Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Redblossom on October 11, 2013, 06:40:01 PM
Title: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 11, 2013, 06:40:01 PM
@)(++(*
gosh and his eyes all lit up
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: icabodcrane on October 11, 2013, 06:55:07 PM
If his wide-eyed moment of revelation turns ut to be something that's been known on the forums for years this 'investigation' will be exposed as a farce
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: drummer on October 11, 2013, 07:07:18 PM
On the other hand if it's not something that's been known for years , what then? I'm sure people will still find a new revelation something to take the mickey out of. Monday evening's going to be quiet on here for a while though, then probably the most activity this forum's ever seen.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 11, 2013, 07:09:02 PM
On the other hand if it's not something that's been known for years , what then? I'm sure people will still find a new revelation something to take the mickey out of. Monday evening's going to be quiet on here for a while though, then probably the most activity this forum's ever seen.
Impossible its something not known for years.......
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2013, 07:09:53 PM
If his wide-eyed moment of revelation turns ut to be something that's been known on the forums for years this 'investigation' will be exposed as a farce
Be charitable. It might be new to the Met.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 11, 2013, 07:10:24 PM
If his wide-eyed moment of revelation turns ut to be something that's been known on the forums for years this 'investigation' will be exposed as a farce
Sadly I think this is what it will be...but....not lost my confidence in SY
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lace on October 11, 2013, 08:28:42 PM
Why are people slagging off SY?
I remember the anti's saying they wanted a review of the case, the McCann's don't really want a review of the case.
Then when it became very obvious that yes the McCann's DID want a review of the case. It was yes SY will find the truth, tick tock, McCann's, every faith in SY.
THEN, as soon as SY came out with the 'They believe Madeleine was taken by a stranger' it was well can't trust SY to get anything right look at the Dando case.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: drummer on October 11, 2013, 08:30:24 PM
I remember the anti's saying they wanted a review of the case, the McCann's don't really want a review of the case.
Then when it became very obvious that yes the McCann's DID want a review of the case. It was yes SY will find the truth, tick tock, McCann's, every faith in SY.
THEN, as soon as SY came out with the 'They believe Madeleine was taken by a stranger' it was well can't trust SY to get anything right look at the Dando case.
I remember the words Lace, "Bring on Scotland yard to sort them out".
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lace on October 11, 2013, 08:37:13 PM
On the other hand if it's not something that's been known for years , what then? I'm sure people will still find a new revelation something to take the mickey out of. Monday evening's going to be quiet on here for a while though, then probably the most activity this forum's ever seen.
We don't really know anything substantial from the files because the vast majority of the statements are ridiculously basic i.e. "I was in XYZ place and I know nothing and noticed nothing....the end". In fact, the case was a bit like reality TV show - i.e. certain "so called facts" were manipulated and fed to us like some storyline from an amateur novelist and the vast majority of everything else was just brushed under the carpet. Personally, I can't wait for Monday because there are a number of people in those files who warranted further investigation and one thing SY is good at, is noticing the "invisible" candidates that nobody has thought twice about..... You never know - bundle man might well be amongst them - in which case, we should all feel very sorry for Jane Tanner and all the flack she has taken. I have a feeling she gave an excellent description.....but time will tell.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Benita on October 11, 2013, 09:37:05 PM
had the pj not made a ash oops that's (hash) of the investigation in the first place SY wouldnt be cleaning up after them would they ..so I 8@??)( SY keep up the good work guys 8((()*/
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 11, 2013, 09:43:11 PM
We don't really know anything substantial from the files because the vast majority of the statements are ridiculously basic i.e. "I was in XYZ place and I know nothing and noticed nothing....the end". In fact, the case was a bit like reality TV show - i.e. certain "so called facts" were manipulated and fed to us like some storyline from an amateur novelist and the vast majority of everything else was just brushed under the carpet. Personally, I can't wait for Monday because there are a number of people in those files who warranted further investigation and one thing SY is good at, is noticing the "invisible" candidates that nobody has thought twice about..... You never know - bundle man might well be amongst them - in which case, we should all feel very sorry for Jane Tanner and all the flack she has taken. I have a feeling she gave an excellent description.....but time will tell.
Dream on but welcome lol
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Benice on October 11, 2013, 11:55:50 PM
I remember the anti's saying they wanted a review of the case, the McCann's don't really want a review of the case.
Then when it became very obvious that yes the McCann's DID want a review of the case. It was yes SY will find the truth, tick tock, McCann's, every faith in SY.
THEN, as soon as SY came out with the 'They believe Madeleine was taken by a stranger' it was well can't trust SY to get anything right look at the Dando case.
Exactly Lace. Some people have short memories.
Also Crimewatch has always been a respected programme, regarded as doing a valuable public service - and not seen as an entertainment prog. But just like SY - it will be trashed and bashed to bits if it doesn't fit the bill according to some of the [ censored word]. In fact it's already started with some calling it a 'silly' programme.
The programme hasn't even been aired yet - and is already being slated and condemned. No doubt after it's been on we can look forward to a mega bashing of the parents. Their clothes, their expressions, every word they utter will be sneered at and torn to shreds and so will anyone else who speaks a single word in support of them. There are even plans to jam the switchboards by some [ censored word]. How sick is that.
From what has already been posted here and elsewhere - the fact that this programme might just help to find out what happened to a missing little girl - seems to be the last thing on their minds.
Very sad IMO.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 12, 2013, 12:04:28 AM
Revelations?! Like the one angel Gabriel made to Virgin Mary?! @)(++(*
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: icabodcrane on October 12, 2013, 03:31:53 AM
Also Crimewatch has always been a respected programme, regarded as doing a valuable public service - and not seen as an entertainment prog.
Up until now, that is.
But Monday's programme has become a show. The hype has been on an epic scale for a Crimewatch programme.
Kirsty Young gushes: "The case that has captivated the world".
One of the Met's finest (DCI Andy Redwood) claims - unconvincingly - to have had a "revelation moment".
Yet beneath all the hype, the person they're allegedly featuring in this soap opera documentary is merely 'a person of interest', and after 2 years and 6 months investigation at a cost £6 million and counting, they don't know who he is yet. If he ever existed, that is.
The 30-second promo clip shown by the BBC countless times yesterday is not a promising sign.
The child carried the wrong way round according to Jane Tanner's discredited evidence.
Madeleine's bed laying against built-in-cupboards - inaccurate.
A bright shaft of light on Madeleine's bed - inaccurate.
If there are at least three basic errors in a 30-second clip, goodness knows how many there will be in a 30-minute programme.
It's hardly surprising that people are already 'phoning the BBC on 03700 100 222 to complain.
I'm surprised that the McCanns themselves haven't complained about these inaccuracies.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2013, 09:10:06 AM
In answer to the original question, the answer is yes, there is something new, but how much of it features in the programme, I don't know.
If Redwood and the Chuckle Bros had anything of any consequence we would have seen arrests in a blaze of publicity as the Met leak machine goes into overdrive. Be prepared to be bored silly on Monday night.
Just read your post blonk...I haven't seen that clip yet but if what you say is correct...OMFG!!" Mark Williams-Thomas and the fiasco Bamber documentary all over again.
Isn't it really ironic that the Muppet who was instrumental in banging up the wrong guy for the Jill Dando (ex Crimewatch presenter) murder should now take part in Crimewatch??
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 09:31:57 AM
Slightly off topic, but is Crimewatch to be a McCann Special, or will it feature other crimes as well, like most of their programmes do ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Benice on October 12, 2013, 10:06:26 AM
But Monday's programme has become a show. The hype has been on an epic scale for a Crimewatch programme.
Kirsty Young gushes: "The case that has captivated the world".
One of the Met's finest (DCI Andy Redwood) claims - unconvincingly - to have had a "revelation moment".
Yet beneath all the hype, the person they're allegedly featuring in this soap opera documentary is merely 'a person of interest', and after 2 years and 6 months investigation at a cost £6 million and counting, they don't know who he is yet. If he ever existed, that is.
The 30-second promo clip shown by the BBC countless times yesterday is not a promising sign.
The child carried the wrong way round according to Jane Tanner's discredited evidence.
Madeleine's bed laying against built-in-cupboards - inaccurate.
A bright shaft of light on Madeleine's bed - inaccurate.
If there are at least three basic errors in a 30-second clip, goodness knows how many there will be in a 30-minute programme.
It's hardly surprising that people are already 'phoning the BBC on 03700 100 222 to complain.
I'm surprised that the McCanns themselves haven't complained about these inaccuracies.
Is it wrong to advertise this important programme (well - at least from Madeleine's POV it's important) in order that as many people as possible watch it? That's the whole point isn't it - to get as big an audience as possible when you are making an appeal to the public.
It doesn't matter a fig if it's not an exact replica of everything if that doesn't affect the information the prog. wishes to convey.
Are you going to be complaining because the actor who plays Gerry has slightly different coloured hair, or is a fraction of an inch taller or thinner than he is?? What a silly question - of course you are!
The whole programme will be put under a microscope by some [ censored word] with the express purpose of finding fault with every micro second of it. And this will keep them happy for months - regurgitating it and embellishing it ad nauseum. The 'sneer' factor is going to go through the roof.
However, its not those fanatics the programme is aimed at and in the meantime, someone who isn't watching just to gather new material to make a big pile of new sticks to beat the McCanns with - might just phone in with crucial information about Madeleine. Yes Madeleine - remember her?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 12, 2013, 10:07:39 AM
Is it wrong to advertise this important programme (well - at least from Madeleine's POV it's important) in order that as many people as possible watch it? That's the whole point isn't it - to get as big an audience as possible when you are making an appeal to the public.
It doesn't matter a fig if it's not an exact replica of everything if that doesn't affect the information the prog. wishes to convey.
Are you going to be complaining because the actor who plays Gerry has slightly different coloured hair, or is a fraction of an inch taller or thinner than he is?? What a silly question - of course you are!
The whole programme will be put under a microscope by some [ censored word] with the express purpose of finding fault with every micro second of it. And this will keep them happy for months - regurgitating it and embellishing it ad nauseum. The 'sneer' factor is going to go through the roof.
However, its not those fanatics the programme is aimed at and in the meantime, someone who isn't watching just to gather new material to make a big pile of new sticks to beat the McCanns with - might just phone in with crucial information about Madeleine. Yes Madeleine - remember her?
a tad hypocritical and much exaggerating there Benice....even for you! calm down dear.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 10:25:00 AM
It does seem to have been hyped somewhat, compared with earlier programmes.
A serious consideration is that if this programme contains errors or inaccuracies that are then highlighted, it will deal a severe bow to the creditability of future Crimewatch programmes.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 12, 2013, 10:30:09 AM
It does seem to have been hyped somewhat, compared with earlier programmes.
A serious consideration is that if this programme contains errors or inaccuracies that are then highlighted, it will deal a severe bow to the creditability of future Crimewatch programmes.
no, not to crimewatch, they are the platform only.......I think...
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Benice on October 12, 2013, 10:32:07 AM
a tad hypocritical and much exaggerating there Benice....even for you! calm down dear.
Well we'll wait and see shall we. Nothing would please me more to be wrong - but I doubt it. It's already started and the programme hasn't even been on yet.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2013, 10:35:42 AM
Is this really the best the @BBC could have produced?
A comedy of errors??
The 30-second promo clip shown by the BBC countless times yesterday is not a promising sign.
The child carried the wrong way round according to Jane Tanner's discredited evidence.
Madeleine's bed laying against built-in-cupboards - inaccurate.
A bright shaft of light on Madeleine's bed - inaccurate.
If there are at least three basic errors in a 30-second clip, goodness knows how many there will be in a 30-minute programme.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 10:38:47 AM
But the general public dont have a clue whether or not it is accurate or misleading......I predict it will be a much ado about nothing.....just mho
Oh, I agree with that. I believe nothing constructive will come of this, except that SY will look as if they have actually achieved something for all the millions spent.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 12, 2013, 11:08:16 AM
Oh, I agree with that. I believe nothing constructive will come of this, except that SY will look as if they have actually achieved something for all the millions spent.
achieved what? Having an e fit of a possible suspect? or someone who may be a person of interest or entirely innocent? We have had about 25 to date.......thats alot of millionsof pounds spent for this achievement
As for the hoohah about thousands of peoples mobile phone activity tracked over 31 countries, purleese.....cynical? Yup
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Montclair on October 12, 2013, 11:13:52 AM
Is this really the best the @BBC could have produced?
A comedy of errors??
The 30-second promo clip shown by the BBC countless times yesterday is not a promising sign.
The child carried the wrong way round according to Jane Tanner's discredited evidence.
Madeleine's bed laying against built-in-cupboards - inaccurate.
A bright shaft of light on Madeleine's bed - inaccurate.
If there are at least three basic errors in a 30-second clip, goodness knows how many there will be in a 30-minute programme.
Also, the bright presence sensitive light on the wall next to the sliding doors shown on the clip and which doesn't exist in PDL. Someone else pointed out that in the clip the sliding door was in the wrong direction. Not sure on this one.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
achieved what? Having an e fit of a possible suspect? or someone who may be a person of interest or entirely innocent? We have had about 25 to date.......thats alot of millionsof pounds spent for this achievement
As for the hoohah about thousands of peoples mobile phone activity tracked over 31 countries, purleese.....cynical? Yup
Exactly. Perhaps this is vehicle to enhance SY's image as much as anything.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2013, 01:10:38 PM
Also, the bright presence sensitive light on the wall next to the sliding doors shown on the clip and which doesn't exist in PDL. Someone else pointed out that in the clip the sliding door was in the wrong direction. Not sure on this one.
See for yourself...
The actual patio door at apt 5a wasn't recessed like the one in the BBC clip but apart from that they both opened from left to right so another myth.
Because I have contacts and that means I know of a technique that they are using and it is a scientific one, involving technology. It may not be a great secret, but those involved have asked for sensitivity over it. If it is used in the programme I will mention it afterwards, but if not I won't.
Would that be a similar scientific technique to the one the boffins used to try to prove that Barry George had gunshot residue in one of his pockets?
Shame on them!!
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: BigFatBlonde on October 12, 2013, 01:22:22 PM
Well, that depends on how stiff they are really. My 3 year old can open our patio doors, but then again ours are quite well lubricated.
Mind, if she had opened them herself you would expect lots of handprints on the glass I think.
N
those ones look about 7 feet tall and 6 feet wide, very chunky .Are yours as big and as heavy. Ive always found these doors quite hard to open
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2013, 01:31:06 PM
Here's another view of it from inside....
I would say it is about 4' wide. I agree, had Maddie opened it her prints would have been all over it. Noticeable that her prints weren't found on the front door or the bedroom window either!!
those ones look about 7 feet tall and 6 feet wide, very chunky .Are yours as big and as heavy. Ive always found these doors quite hard to open
Ours are certainly over 6' tall and around 8ft wide. They are made of wood and very heavy - but the mechanism itself is very smooth so she is able to open them. Then again she only needs to get them wide enough to fit out, she doesn't open them the whole way.
N
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2013, 01:38:38 PM
Are you sure you don't mean 8' overall with a 4' door? An 8' patio door would need a 16' gap to open fully.
...and it is my experience that when a child opens a patio door and slips out they don't close it again.
Kate didn't report the patio door as being open did she?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Mr Gray on October 12, 2013, 01:47:46 PM
Ours are certainly over 6' tall and around 8ft wide. They are made of wood and very heavy - but the mechanism itself is very smooth so she is able to open them. Then again she only needs to get them wide enough to fit out, she doesn't open them the whole way.
N
sounds as though they are very modern and expensive..not like the one in PDL. I would be surprised if a 3 yr old could open them
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: BigFatBlonde on October 12, 2013, 01:59:45 PM
Actually it isn't. It can still provide useful information. And if if you know about this then you should know why it has potential too.
Hmm, but we don't know about it do we - only you do - so all we can do is speculate about this mysterious 'scientific' thingy that (for some obscure reason) you won't talk about.
N
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: BigFatBlonde on October 12, 2013, 02:12:43 PM
Others may know about it too. It is to do with the phones as you know. If you can work it out from there, it would mean it has been made public and I'll confirm it, but as they asked for sensitivity I won't until I know that it is no longer deemed sensitive. I'm sure you can understand that nobody wants to damage the chance of a happy outcome whether that happens or not.
well it's good to know that SY want to show sensitivity and discretion over some aspects of their investigation - because the rest of it has been freely advertised in all the tabloids.
I don't have any insight into what the phone records could reveal to be honest, certainly some intelligence but strong leads? Will just have to wait until the 'big reveal' on Monday.
Let's hope it's not as disappointing as the last episode of 'The Prisoner' or (for our younger viewers) 'Lost'.
N
N
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Montclair on October 12, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
Are you sure you don't mean 8' overall with a 4' door? An 8' patio door would need a 16' gap to open fully.
...and it is my experience that when a child opens a patio door and slips out they don't close it again.
Kate didn't report the patio door as being open did she?
I'm curious as to how Kate and Gerry managed to open the doors each time they went in and out unless they left a tiny gap so that they could get a hand in to push the sliding glass door open. If the doors were closed all the way, the only way to open them, if they were not locked, would be to press your palm on the glass and try to push it to the side.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 02:19:39 PM
I'm curious as to how Kate and Gerry managed to open the doors each time they went in and out unless they left a tiny gap so that they could get a hand in to push the sliding glass door open. If the doors were closed all the way, the only way to open them, if they were not locked, would be to press your palm on the glass and try to push it to the side.
Perhaps they had a handy jemmy
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 12, 2013, 02:21:14 PM
Dont worry dhingra not only will it be on i player and on sky on demand but it will be uploaded to youtube for posterity.....
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 12, 2013, 02:23:59 PM
Actually it isn't. It can still provide useful information. And if if you know about this then you should know why it has potential too.
I cant know anything about anything that I dont know about....I will await the redwood damascus moment on Monday....or big fat flop depending on your viewpoint @)(++(*
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2013, 02:27:59 PM
I'm curious as to how Kate and Gerry managed to open the doors each time they went in and out unless they left a tiny gap so that they could get a hand in to push the sliding glass door open. If the doors were closed all the way, the only way to open them, if they were not locked, would be to press your palm on the glass and try to push it to the side.
That's a very good point Montclair. Did anyone else notice that there are no handles on the outside of the patio door? If you look at the two pictures I posted though you can see that there is a handle on the door but on the other end. I would hazard a guess that not only was the door unlocked but that it wasn't completely closed either.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 12, 2013, 02:44:02 PM
If there are at least three basic errors in a 30-second clip, goodness knows how many there will be in a 30-minute programme.
Nobody will notice, except for a few persons (the Tapas group, JW, the Smith family and posters who read the files). Most watchers will be entertained and SY proved to do many efforts. All this has been said by others in Reply #30
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 02:48:22 PM
I don't think I could bear to watch at all - the still from the trailer clip that someone posted on here put me right off.
I'll no doubt be able to catch up on the salient points via the internet.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: BigFatBlonde on October 12, 2013, 02:58:06 PM
Oh I'll watch it after all, despite my cynicism, you never know something might come out of it.
Wasn't too impressed with the trailer like where KM says 'we did nothing wrong' - hmmmm >@@(*&)
N
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 12, 2013, 03:03:30 PM
Are you sure you don't mean 8' overall with a 4' door? An 8' patio door would need a 16' gap to open fully.
...and it is my experience that when a child opens a patio door and slips out they don't close it again.
Kate didn't report the patio door as being open did she?
Strangely enough they never mentioned the security barrier on top of the stairs, a bit tricky to open in the darkness. Mrs McCann, informed likely by the forums, for the first time says, in "Madeleine", they opened and closed it every time they checked. One more reason to disbelieve the Oldfield's check at 21:30 (those barriers are obviously not easy to open, especially in the dark). Yes, had Madeleine gone out, she wouldn't have closed the door behind her.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: faithlilly on October 12, 2013, 03:05:03 PM
Is it wrong to advertise this important programme (well - at least from Madeleine's POV it's important) in order that as many people as possible watch it? That's the whole point isn't it - to get as big an audience as possible when you are making an appeal to the public.
It doesn't matter a fig if it's not an exact replica of everything if that doesn't affect the information the prog. wishes to convey.
Are you going to be complaining because the actor who plays Gerry has slightly different coloured hair, or is a fraction of an inch taller or thinner than he is?? What a silly question - of course you are!
The whole programme will be put under a microscope by some [ censored word] with the express purpose of finding fault with every micro second of it. And this will keep them happy for months - regurgitating it and embellishing it ad nauseum. The 'sneer' factor is going to go through the roof.
However, its not those fanatics the programme is aimed at and in the meantime, someone who isn't watching just to gather new material to make a big pile of new sticks to beat the McCanns with - might just phone in with crucial information about Madeleine. Yes Madeleine - remember her?
Slowly trying to catch up on this forum's discussions.
I agree with your post, Benice.
Whether every immaterial detail to set the backgound is accurate or not, what will be important is what the police are actually asking the public to be attentive to. And we can't know exactly what that is until the programme is aired.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 12, 2013, 03:11:40 PM
I can only see a handle on the inside of the part open one. Do you mean that the right-hand opens as well ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: BigFatBlonde on October 12, 2013, 03:30:13 PM
I raised this in an earlier post but this isn't a 'reconstruction' it is a dramatisation. A reconstruction would take into account the times that people claimed to have checked on the children and their location at the time of any alleged activity. that is to say it is a repetition of known (or alleged) events. The are used to construct timelines and check the veracity of witness statements.
That's not to say nothing could come of it, but it isn't a reconstruction.
N
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 12, 2013, 03:31:10 PM
The whole programme will be put under a microscope by some [ censored word] with the express purpose of finding fault with every micro second of it. And this will keep them happy for months - regurgitating it and embellishing it ad nauseum. The 'sneer' factor is going to go through the roof.
However, its not those fanatics the programme is aimed at and in the meantime, someone who isn't watching just to gather new material to make a big pile of new sticks to beat the McCanns with - might just phone in with crucial information about Madeleine. Yes Madeleine - remember her?
I find unacceptable your calling "fanatics" people who don't insult you for being unconditional of the McCann doxa. Why in fact should the actor carry the child as in Ms Tanner's statement ? Didn't the Emma Loach's actor carry the child contrary to the Smith statement ? Why do it right when you can do it wrong ? And why do it right if doing it wrong you get more phone calls ? Thousands of abductors ! A dream..
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Redblossom on October 12, 2013, 03:34:38 PM
I raised this in an earlier post but this isn't a 'reconstruction' it is a dramatisation. A reconstruction would take into account the times that people claimed to have checked on the children and their location at the time of any alleged activity. that is to say it is a repetition of known (or alleged) events. The are used to construct timelines and check the veracity of witness statements.
That's not to say nothing could come of it, but it isn't a reconstruction.
N
Well they cant reconstruct any abduction as no one knows if and when and how it happened...the best they can do is put forward a possible scenario.....based within the last time she was seen and when found to be missing
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 12, 2013, 03:37:27 PM
I raised this in an earlier post but this isn't a 'reconstruction' it is a dramatisation. A reconstruction would take into account the times that people claimed to have checked on the children and their location at the time of any alleged activity. that is to say it is a repetition of known (or alleged) events. The are used to construct timelines and check the veracity of witness statements.
That's not to say nothing could come of it, but it isn't a reconstruction.
N
I understand Crimewatch type reconstructions (cameras, actors, dramatisation in order to jog memories through emotions) are very different of police reconstitutions of events (the most accurately possible and necessarily by those who have lived them). You seem to suggest that this kind of re-enactment exists in Common Law countries. Does it ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: BigFatBlonde on October 12, 2013, 03:41:31 PM
I understand Crimewatch type reconstructions (cameras, actors, dramatisation in order to jog memories through emotions) are very different of police reconstitutions of events (the most accurately possible and necessarily by those who have lived them). You seem to suggest that this kind of re-enactment exists in Common Law countries. Does it ?
As far as know Anne they only exist on second rate TV shows. I just take offence when they are described as reconstructions when they clearly are not.
Like so many hollywood 'B' movies it is a story 'based on true events'
N
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Rachel Granada on October 12, 2013, 04:17:37 PM
I give Madeleine dignity by not bashing her parents, or those trying to find her, at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Montclair on October 12, 2013, 05:07:20 PM
I give Madeleine dignity by not bashing her parents, or those trying to find her, at every opportunity.
Madeleine's parents certainly didn't give their daughter much dignity, putting her in a creche all day and leaving her and her siblings alone at night every night of their stay. Didn't these people ever interact with their children during their time in Praia da Luz?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Rachel Granada on October 12, 2013, 05:54:10 PM
Madeleine's parents certainly didn't give their daughter much dignity, putting her in a creche all day and leaving her and her siblings alone at night every night of their stay. Didn't these people ever interact with their children during their time in Praia da Luz?
Another parent-bashing post.
I rest my case.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 12, 2013, 05:57:07 PM
Regardless of whether you believe or doubt the abduction claim, imo it is distasteful in the extreme to tout this upcoming CW like some kind of trailer for a crime thriller or an episode of CSI. I do not know who wrote the script but in no way is captivate an appropriate verb to use. Grabbed the world's attention, mystified the world, held the world in its grip.....
there is nothing captivating about the disappearance and possible death of a small child.
Let Madeleine have some dignity for God's sake.
Hopefully it may shed some light on what happened to Maddie , that's the least she deserves
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lyall on October 12, 2013, 10:49:53 PM
This the answer to OP? >@@(*&)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWaB17sCAAA1-1c.jpg)
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lyall on October 12, 2013, 10:51:39 PM
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Mr Gray on October 12, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
So who has got it wrong..they cant mean those on the ..... forum...they cant mean those on jill haverns forum...so for me ..it has to be the PJ..led by Mr Amaral
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lyall on October 12, 2013, 11:42:13 PM
So who has got it wrong..they cant mean those on the ..... forum...they cant mean those on jill haverns forum...so for me ..it has to be the PJ..led by Mr Amaral
8-)(--) And the witness?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: faithlilly on October 12, 2013, 11:45:53 PM
No, the timeline is being reviewed on the basis of mobile phone evidence, suggesting that she went missing earlier than previously thought. Watch BBC news on its news channel just after midnight.
How does that affect Tanner's sighting and Gerry's check just minutes before ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 12, 2013, 11:54:06 PM
I think they mean everyone up to this point has had it wrong. The investigations have been based on an incorrect timeline. The new one, which is evidence-based is suggesting that she went missing earlier than I presume between 9.30-10.00. I will watch the coverage to see if they mention the thing I know about, which I think is the basis for this.
But everyone assumed Madeleine went missing at 9.15-20 not 9.39-10.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: sadie on October 13, 2013, 12:22:34 AM
I would say it is about 4' wide. I agree, had Maddie opened it her prints would have been all over it. Noticeable that her prints weren't found on the front door or the bedroom window either!!
DCI Redwood: "Primarily we're focused on the time between 8.30 and 10".
I bet you are 8)-)))
Oh, no..
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lyall on October 13, 2013, 12:41:38 AM
James Murray doesn't know what's going on either >@@(*&)
EXCLUSIVE: Events and timings on night Madeleine McCann vanished under 'intense scrutiny' http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436291/EXCLUSIVE-Events-and-timings-on-night-Madeleine-McCann-vanished-under-intense-scrutiny (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436291/EXCLUSIVE-Events-and-timings-on-night-Madeleine-McCann-vanished-under-intense-scrutiny)
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Montclair on October 13, 2013, 12:46:06 AM
That is why the Portuguese authorities wanted to carry out a reconstruction of the night of 3 May, so that it could be ascertained what actually happened that night, who was the last person to see Madeleine alive, etc.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lyall on October 13, 2013, 12:47:40 AM
A Yard spokesperson would not be drawn on details but added: ‘‘Through meticulously drawing together specific information the team have been able to refocus the timeline and now place more significance on events that night.” [my italics]
Curiouser and curiouser 8)-)))
At least they'd have the good sense not to use the word intelligence.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 13, 2013, 01:11:22 AM
That is why the Portuguese authorities wanted to carry out a reconstruction of the night of 3 May, so that it could be ascertained what actually happened that night, who was the last person to see Madeleine alive, etc.
2 years and a half to reach that conclusion, filming Madeleine picking up balls running on a court between players' legs... Nobody invented "the accepted version of events that has been in the public domain to date", the TP9 imposed it !
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 13, 2013, 01:15:17 AM
At least they'd have the good sense not to use the word intelligence.
8)-)))
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: kmc on October 13, 2013, 01:58:25 AM
SY don't bring in CPS unless they have a known suspect/suspects in the frame and sufficient evidence to go for a conviction. I would put money on Crimewatch being a chance to "widen the net" because they believe they are dealing with a larger "organisation"..... make no mistake, in my opinion, they already know the person/couple/trio who abducted her and they have probably been preparing international arrest warrants for months.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 13, 2013, 02:08:39 AM
SY don't bring in CPS unless they have a known suspect/suspects in the frame and sufficient evidence to go for a conviction. I would put money on Crimewatch being a chance to "widen the net" because they believe they are dealing with a larger "organisation"..... make no mistake, in my opinion, they already know the person/couple/trio who abducted her and they have probably been preparing international arrest warrants for months.
Would it be safe for the little one ? Isn't she priority ? Do international arrests need CW to be made effective ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 13, 2013, 02:10:16 AM
SY don't bring in CPS unless they have a known suspect/suspects in the frame and sufficient evidence to go for a conviction. I would put money on Crimewatch being a chance to "widen the net" because they believe they are dealing with a larger "organisation"..... make no mistake, in my opinion, they already know the person/couple/trio who abducted her and they have probably been preparing international arrest warrants for months.
8@??)( My thoughts exactly
..... But we shall see.......
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on October 13, 2013, 02:19:09 AM
Because it is a technique that has been used in other cases and if it has been referred to other than where I found it, then it would no longer be sensitive and I could confirm, knowing that someone else knew and that the sensitivity over it has ended. So far nobody has indicated that its use in this case is known about. Hence I am not saying.
You're answering my question : But why exactly did you say you knew something you couldn't say ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 13, 2013, 02:26:15 AM
Fine. My answer remains the same. They asked for sensitivity and are getting it. You don't like that, I really don't care. If I see it mentioned, I'll confirm it. That is all that is on offer.
You don't understand : the question isn't what you know or ignore. Why do you claim you know things that for whatever reason you don't want to reveal. Is it to attract attention on you ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: icabodcrane on October 13, 2013, 05:27:13 AM
Is this really the best the @BBC could have produced?
A comedy of errors??
The 30-second promo clip shown by the BBC countless times yesterday is not a promising sign.
The child carried the wrong way round according to Jane Tanner's discredited evidence.
Madeleine's bed laying against built-in-cupboards - inaccurate.
A bright shaft of light on Madeleine's bed - inaccurate.
If there are at least three basic errors in a 30-second clip, goodness knows how many there will be in a 30-minute programme.
Well there is the short clip of Madeleine collecting tennis balls
The clip shows Kate and Gerry playing tennis together, apparently in the evening ( with long shadows being cast )
In fact, the photo of Madeleine carrying the tennis balls was taken by Kate ... who was not playing tennis
The occasion was Tuesday morning ( 1st of May ) when Gerry was having a tennis lesson from 10.15am and Madeleine was taking part in a mini-club session on an adjoining court with other children
The Crime watch programme is billed as showing a reconstruction of events leading up to and surrounding Madeleine's disappearance
What is the signigicance of the 'tennis ball collecting' episode which happened two days before, and why has it been depicted inaccurately ?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: icabodcrane on October 13, 2013, 05:58:37 AM
It was interesting that Redwood emphasised the timeline they were investigating, specifically, was between 8.30pm and 10pm
He says that 8.30 was when the McCanns went to dinner, and 10pm was when Madeleine was reported as missing
What about Gerry's 9.15pm visit to the apartment then ? when he says Madeleine was alive and well, tucked up in bed
Surely that would put the crucial time to focus on as between 9.15pm and 10pm
Wasn't the principal time of interest always 8.30 - 10?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 08:44:16 AM
This is looking even more significant a breakthrough than I first hoped. How advanced was triangulation back in 2007? How precisely are they able to place phones within the town? And perhaps more importantly, did they also gather data from surrounding areas, or is it available now, in order to see not just who was in PDL at the time in question, but who also left the town that night?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: sadie on October 13, 2013, 08:55:06 AM
SY don't bring in CPS unless they have a known suspect/suspects in the frame and sufficient evidence to go for a conviction. I would put money on Crimewatch being a chance to "widen the net" because they believe they are dealing with a larger "organisation"..... make no mistake, in my opinion, they already know the person/couple/trio who abducted her and they have probably been preparing international arrest warrants for months.
Please correct me, if I am wrong, but I think that Jane returned later to relieve Russell, so that he could get his meal ,
Heri thought that it was later and IIRC thought it tied in with Janes later trip. Presumeably he thought that she had misremembered which trip it was and mistakenly tied it inn with when she passed Gerry and Jez chatting
Only assumptions about Jane on my behalf .... but i do seem to remember that Heri was on to it, timewise.
Maybe he got the whole lifting theory right?
An extra-ordinarily clever guy is Heri. Such a shame peeps upset him and he left
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Cariad on October 13, 2013, 10:05:31 AM
It was interesting that Redwood emphasised the timeline they were investigating, specifically, was between 8.30pm and 10pm
He says that 8.30 was when the McCanns went to dinner, and 10pm was when Madeleine was reported as missing
What about Gerry's 9.15pm visit to the apartment then ? when he says Madeleine was alive and well, tucked up in bed
Surely that would put the crucial time to focus on as between 9.15pm and 10pm
Certainly between 9-10 anyway. Unless they're discounting Gerry's 9.05 ish sighting.......
Hypothetical question:
If there were no checks at all, and some were invented to mitigate responsibility by the parents, how would people feel then? Especially if it had taken 6 and a half years to come to light?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Mr Gray on October 13, 2013, 10:12:45 AM
This is looking even more significant a breakthrough than I first hoped. How advanced was triangulation back in 2007? How precisely are they able to place phones within the town? And perhaps more importantly, did they also gather data from surrounding areas, or is it available now, in order to see not just who was in PDL at the time in question, but who also left the town that night?
8@??)(
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 10:25:19 AM
The problem is, although we now have the technology to pinpoint a handset within metres, even if its turned off, this wasn't available in 2007 and I don't see how it could be recovered retrospectively.
It also appears that the Met have been analysing the data that was already available to the PJ which is only from cells in PDL as far as I'm aware. They need to be looking wider, in my opinion, but again can this data be obtained retrospectively?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 10:35:00 AM
Would the Portuguese legal system have allowed them to cast a wider net though? As I understand it, they take the protection of private information a lot more seriously than we do. I read some interesting information a couple of years ago about the tracking of mobile phones across the US but it relied on the a federal government obtaining this information. Would it happen so easily across Europe? Whose consent would be required?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Montclair on October 13, 2013, 11:06:25 AM
It seems that Russell O'Brien was asked in his rogatory about a call/message he received from Germany. That could be significant.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 11:20:27 AM
After this last week’s frenzy with news that are no-news (not to call it fabricated) – 2 german suspects + 1 british arrested + handful of nothing but a ridiculous advert for a TV show – I’m more convinced than ever that Scotland Yard is probably hoping for Sherlock Holmes to come home and put some sense into their chaos (after all, they are still trying to find out who was Jack the Ripper).
But the most astounding news are those that put in question the timeline of events. Considering that such timeline was mainly produced and vouched by Mrs & Mr. McCann and their faithful friends, what does it say about them if their depositions are now questioned or totally dismissed as false?!
Everyone can check the documents, but there is a summary, made by Kazlux for 3 and 4 May 2007) available in http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html)
Saying that the timeline of events was wrong is saying that all the Tapas forged that timeline, lied to the Police, that is obstructed the chance to find out what occurred with little Madeleine McCann.
Yet, as Mrs. Murphy, the ex-USA Prosecutor said, I make mine her own words: "I'm not buying it. I think this is more PR than anything," Murphy said. "I think this is all related to a civil suit now underway in Portugal." [ http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/10/10/new-image-suspect-be-released-madeleine-mccann-case (http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/10/10/new-image-suspect-be-released-madeleine-mccann-case) ]
In my humble opinion, it's high time people start to think with their own neurons and stop acting like puppets or parrots that are trained (poorly, because as time goes by more and more question the ridiculousness of what is being announced) by whoever runs the Press and the process.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Mr Gray on October 13, 2013, 11:30:32 AM
After this last week’s frenzy with news that are no-news (not to call it fabricated) – 2 german suspects + 1 british arrested + handful of nothing but a ridiculous advert for a TV show – I’m more convinced than ever that Scotland Yard is probably hoping for Sherlock Holmes to come home and put some sense into their chaos (after all, they are still trying to find out who was Jack the Ripper).
But the most astounding news are those that put in question the timeline of events. Considering that such timeline was mainly produced and vouched by Mrs & Mr. McCann and their faithful friends, what does it say about them if their depositions are now questioned or totally dismissed as false?!
Everyone can check the documents, but there is a summary, made by Kazlux for 3 and 4 May 2007) available in http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html)
Saying that the timeline of events was wrong is saying that all the Tapas forged that timeline, lied to the Police, that is obstructed the chance to find out what occurred with little Madeleine McCann.
Yet, as Mrs. Murphy, the ex-USA Prosecutor said, I make mine her own words: "I'm not buying it. I think this is more PR than anything," Murphy said. "I think this is all related to a civil suit now underway in Portugal." [ http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/10/10/new-image-suspect-be-released-madeleine-mccann-case (http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/10/10/new-image-suspect-be-released-madeleine-mccann-case) ]
In my humble opinion, it's high time people start to think with their own neurons and stop acting like puppets or parrots that are trained (poorly, because as time goes by more and more question the ridiculousness of what is being announced) by whoever runs the Press and the process.
it is precisely by thinking things through, not accepting statements at face value but by going back to the source to verify them...by not believing gossip that has no factual basis..by taking a scientific approach to the available evidence...that I can state that there is very, very, little doubt that Maddie was abducted
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 11:34:36 AM
it is precisely by thinking things through, not accepting statements at face value but by going back to the source to verify them...by not believing gossip that has no factual basis..by taking a scientific approach to the available evidence...that I can state that there is very, very, little doubt that Maddie was abducted
The evidence supporting the parental coverup theory seems to be a combination of hearsay and rather lurid supposition, the main strands being - Kate was irritated by a police car going too quickly, Gerry was seen sucking a lollipop and David Paye once touched his own nipples.
That's it, really, isn't it. Utter nonsense.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Lyall on October 13, 2013, 11:36:34 AM
it is precisely by thinking things through, not accepting statements at face value but by going back to the source to verify them...by not believing gossip that has no factual basis..by taking a scientific approach to the available evidence...that I can state that there is very, very, little doubt that Maddie was abducted
A scientific approach to the available evidence? Show us what evidence you have about what happened between 5.30 and 8.30. Show us the evidence that says she was still alive at the end of that time period.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Mr Gray on October 13, 2013, 11:38:43 AM
post deleted
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: kmc on October 13, 2013, 11:40:06 AM
After this last week’s frenzy with news that are no-news (not to call it fabricated) – 2 german suspects + 1 british arrested + handful of nothing but a ridiculous advert for a TV show – I’m more convinced than ever that Scotland Yard is probably hoping for Sherlock Holmes to come home and put some sense into their chaos (after all, they are still trying to find out who was Jack the Ripper).
But the most astounding news are those that put in question the timeline of events. Considering that such timeline was mainly produced and vouched by Mrs & Mr. McCann and their faithful friends, what does it say about them if their depositions are now questioned or totally dismissed as false?!
Everyone can check the documents, but there is a summary, made by Kazlux for 3 and 4 May 2007) available in http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html)
Saying that the timeline of events was wrong is saying that all the Tapas forged that timeline, lied to the Police, that is obstructed the chance to find out what occurred with little Madeleine McCann.
Yet, as Mrs. Murphy, the ex-USA Prosecutor said, I make mine her own words: "I'm not buying it. I think this is more PR than anything," Murphy said. "I think this is all related to a civil suit now underway in Portugal." [ http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/10/10/new-image-suspect-be-released-madeleine-mccann-case (http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/10/10/new-image-suspect-be-released-madeleine-mccann-case) ]
In my humble opinion, it's high time people start to think with their own neurons and stop acting like puppets or parrots that are trained (poorly, because as time goes by more and more question the ridiculousness of what is being announced) by whoever runs the Press and the process.
The vast majority of us have spent the last 6 VERY long years listening to the anti-McCann's diatribe including rants about dogs, cuddle cat, Madeleine herself being a hoax, overdoses etc. etc. etc. This week can we not allow SY to take "the stand" with an open mind and a bit of grace. There are always two sides /interpretations of any story and God knows we have all heard and considered more than enough from just ONE side.....
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 11:43:21 AM
None of the tapas group had the profile of child abusers, whether sexual or otherwise. They were all happy to let their kids go off with nannies and child minders for most of the day - if they were abusing their children there is no way they would have ceded this much control over their children. Abusers, especially sexual abusers, would spend a lot more to with children when they had the opportunity, and would certainly not have allowed other people access to their children because they would not want to give up a position of control.
So child abuse on the part of any of the parents can be completely discounted.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: C.Edwards on October 13, 2013, 11:47:01 AM
The problem is, although we now have the technology to pinpoint a handset within metres, even if its turned off, this wasn't available in 2007 and I don't see how it could be recovered retrospectively.
It also appears that the Met have been analysing the data that was already available to the PJ which is only from cells in PDL as far as I'm aware. They need to be looking wider, in my opinion, but again can this data be obtained retrospectively?
You are not very clued up in the area of phone triangulation, are you? What do you think makes it possible to pinpoint phones so accurately now? Two things: more masts (if you have more masts in an area then you have more triangulation opportunities) and GPS capabilities. As the GPS capabilities of a phone now are not "broadcast" anywhere by default, they're irrelevant now let alone back in 2007 and as the number of masts in 2007 cannot be retrospectively changed, your "revelatory breakthrough" is not worth a hill of beans.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 11:48:12 AM
The vast majority of us have spent the last 6 VERY long years listening to the anti-McCann's diatribe including rants about dogs, cuddle cat, Madeleine herself being a hoax, overdoses etc. etc. etc. This week can we not allow SY to take "the stand" with an open mind and a bit of grace. There are always two sides /interpretations of any story and God knows we have all heard and considered more than enough from just ONE side.....
So you are ready to accept that the whole group made false declarations to the police since the first day their child went missing?! ...and allow me to correct you, I am not anti-mccann, I am anti-liars and pro-justice.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 11:49:54 AM
None of the tapas group had the profile of child abusers, whether sexual or otherwise. They were all happy to let their kids go off with nannies and child minders for most of the day - if they were abusing their children there is no way they would have ceded this much control over their children. Abusers, especially sexual abusers, would spend a lot more to with children when they had the opportunity, and would certainly not have allowed other people access to their children because they would not want to give up a position of control.
So child abuse on the part of any of the parents can be completely discounted.
It's you that is calling to the plateau the question of child abuse and/or sexual abuse. Maybe you know something that none of us do!
But allow me just to make a small remind: until caught, no abuser or sexual abuser has a record.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 11:50:40 AM
You are not very clued up in the area of phone triangulation, are you? What do you think makes it possible to pinpoint phones so accurately now? Two things: more masts (if you have more masts in an area then you have more triangulation opportunities) and GPS capabilities. As the GPS capabilities of a phone now are not "broadcast" anywhere by default, they're irrelevant now let alone back in 2007 and as the number of masts in 2007 cannot be retrospectively changed, your "revelatory breakthrough" is not worth a hill of beans.
Um...I think you need to read my post again, old chum. It's meaning seems to have passed over your head.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: C.Edwards on October 13, 2013, 11:52:30 AM
Um...I think you need to read my post again, old chum. It's meaning seems to have passed over your head.
I think you need to re-read your post "old chum" as your first sentence is utter pigswill, regardless of what the second one is trying to say. "we now have the technology to pinpoint a handset within metres, even if its turned off" is utter and complete poppycock!
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: sadie on October 13, 2013, 11:53:30 AM
So you are ready to accept that the whole group made false declarations to the police since the first day their child went missing?! ...and allow me to correct you, I am not anti-mccann, I am anti-liars and pro-justice.
@)(++(* Sorry,
BUT .... !
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 13, 2013, 11:59:47 AM
None of the tapas group had the profile of child abusers, whether sexual or otherwise. They were all happy to let their kids go off with nannies and child minders for most of the day - if they were abusing their children there is no way they would have ceded this much control over their children. Abusers, especially sexual abusers, would spend a lot more to with children when they had the opportunity, and would certainly not have allowed other people access to their children because they would not want to give up a position of control.
So child abuse on the part of any of the parents can be completely discounted.
Why have you brought that topic just now? As far as I'm aware, no one on this thread has ever made such a suggestion.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 12:01:25 PM
Having looked a bit more closely, I've managed to find some pre 2007 news stories regarding triangulation. It seems one of the 7/7 bombers was apprehended using this technology. Even in 2007 triangulation could place someone within a hundred metres or closer, depending upon the number of towers, obviously. The question is, given that its the Met investigating and the abduction took place in another jurisdiction, have they secured the network provider's cooperation? If they have, and they have secured cooperation across several European states, it opens up some exciting possibilities and may go some way to explaining the appeals in Holland and Germany.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 12:02:19 PM
Having looked a bit more closely, I've managed to find some pre 2007 news stories regarding triangulation. It seems one of the 7/7 bombers was apprehended using this technology. Even in 2007 triangulation could place someone within a hundred metres or closer, depending upon the number of towers, obviously. The question is, given that its the Met investigating and the abduction took place in another jurisdiction, have they secured the network provider's cooperation? If they have, and they have secured cooperation across several European states, it opens up some exciting possibilities and may go some way to explaining the appeals in Holland and Germany.
The bolded bit is irrelevant. If the same number of masts are in place now as then, then triangulation can do nothing more than it did then! You're trying to make it sound like there's been some incredible breakthrough in technology that now allows the police to retrospectively analyse phone records (the PJ already did triangulation (look at the antenna activation details) and mast activations) when in reality there's absolutely nothing more that can be gained other than getting the phone records from foreign providers and that will only be of any use if any "know paedophiles" are dumb enough to have had their own handset with them. You talk about "plausible" in other threads and then come up with this?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: kmc on October 13, 2013, 12:07:23 PM
So you are ready to accept that the whole group made false declarations to the police since the first day their child went missing?! ...and allow me to correct you, I am not anti-mccann, I am anti-liars and pro-justice.
I am willing to accept that anyone having enjoyed an evening of wine and laughter - faced with the mind-blowing trauma of a child "going missing" - might quite reasonably muddle/confuse the exact timings /sequences of events. Anyhow you are clearly not pro-justice if you declare people to be liars without balanced consideration.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 13, 2013, 12:09:06 PM
Even if a phone can be placed to within 100 meters, it would only indicate the the phone was in PDL or wherever and would provide no proof as to who was actually carrying it at the time.
I believe that even amongst the Tapas group, phones were swapped about because of flat batteries, etc. This could obviously happen with other people as well, so identifying a phone position may not be as useful as it first appears.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 12:09:30 PM
The bolded bit is irrelevant. If the same number of masts are in place now as then, then triangulation can do nothing more than it did then! You're trying to make it sound like there's been some incredible breakthrough in technology that now allows the police to retrospectively analyse phone records (the PJ already did triangulation (look at the antenna activation details) and mast activations) when in reality there's absolutely nothing more that can be gained other than getting the phone records from foreign providers and that will only be of any use if any "know paedophiles" are dumb enough to have had their own handset with them. You talk about "plausible" in other threads and then come up with this?
You've misunderstood me. You will see on reading my posts that I also expressed doubts about new technology being applied retrospectively. What I'm curious to know is whether the Met have obtained further data from the providers, which I assume would bring with it complications based on matters of jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 12:11:52 PM
Even if a phone can be placed to within 100 meters, it would only indicate the the phone was in PDL or wherever and would provide no proof as to who was actually carrying it at the time.
I believe that even amongst the Tapas group, phones were swapped about because of flat batteries, etc. This could obviously happen with other people as well, so identifying a phone position may not be as useful as it first appears.
What about phones that were in PDL between 8:30 and 10:00 but were travelling quickly away from PDL later that night, perhaps towards the Spanish border?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 12:14:37 PM
I am willing to accept that anyone having enjoyed an evening of wine and laughter - faced with the mind-blowing trauma of a child "going missing" - might quite reasonably muddle/confuse the exact timings /sequences of events. Anyhow you are clearly not pro-justice if you declare people to be liars without balanced consideration.
From early May 2007 until July 2008 they had plenty of time to correct anything there was to correct. Furthermore they were given ample chance when they were called by Leicestershire police, in answer to the rogatories, and they were shown their previous depositions, and even helped in order to correct themselves by comparing with their mates/colleagues' accounts.
No chance. If there is a new timeline it is a fake. Or, which I find hard to believe, not only the Tapas group lied all the way, but dozens of other people did.
If you make a "balanced consideration", you will arrive at the same conclusion that I did. Someone is not telling the truth (since you don't like the term liar).
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: C.Edwards on October 13, 2013, 12:19:04 PM
You've misunderstood me. You will see on reading my posts that I also expressed doubts about new technology being applied retrospectively. What I'm curious to know is whether the Met have obtained further data from the providers, which I assume would bring with it complications based on matters of jurisdiction.
ok, what could they get? A cellphone activation record (from a mast) will record the number of the phone (from the SIM) and the IMEI (from the handset). These can be used to indicate that a particular handset and/or sim was in a position to activate that mast. Cross-referencing this with other mast activations in the area will allow triangulation to be done and in a relatively rural area like PDL, that triangulation result will be kilometres, not hundred of metres.
The SIM used will provide details on the "home" carrier (i.e O2/giffgaff/vodafone/orange/whatever in the UK and their foreign equivalents in other countries). I would be highly surprised if any operator would hand over personal details for the registered owner of sims (even if there is a registered owner - you can pick up PAYG sims all over the place and put credit on them with untraceable cash) unless there was a relevant warrant handed over. Otherwise the infringement of privacy is potentially enormous.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: kmc on October 13, 2013, 12:20:36 PM
From early May 2007 until July 2008 they had plenty of time to correct anything there was to correct. Furthermore they were given ample chance when they were called by Leicestershire police, in answer to the rogatories, and they were shown their previous depositions, and even helped in order to correct themselves by comparing with their mates/colleagues' accounts.
No chance. If there is a new timeline it is a fake. Or, which I find hard to believe, not only the Tapas group lied all the way, but dozens of other people did.
I think you are right about dozens of "other people" lying about their timelines......I reckon SY have not analysed phone data to the extent they have because it is the T9's timelines that they are concerned about.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: C.Edwards on October 13, 2013, 12:22:10 PM
What about phones that were in PDL between 8:30 and 10:00 but were travelling quickly away from PDL later that night, perhaps towards the Spanish border?
That would be relatively easy to achieve. It would be a case of picking another mast or two along the route into Spain and simply checking if/when the number in PDL activated at those masts. But as I said, any criminal who can tie his own shoelaces attempting to flee the scene of the crime with his personally registered mobile phone both with him AND turned on would be a rare find in my opinion. It is, I agree, worth checking for of course.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 12:27:01 PM
That would be relatively easy to achieve. It would be a case of picking another mast or two along the route into Spain and simply checking if/when the number in PDL activated at those masts. But as I said, any criminal who can tie his own shoelaces attempting to flee the scene of the crime with his personally registered mobile phone both with him AND turned on would be a rare find in my opinion. It is, I agree, worth checking for of course.
It doesn't have to be registered to anyone to be significant. In fact, I doubt it would be registered, hence the need for other information and public appeals with e-fits etc.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Benice on October 13, 2013, 12:29:06 PM
I am willing to accept that anyone having enjoyed an evening of wine and laughter - faced with the mind-blowing trauma of a child "going missing" - might quite reasonably muddle/confuse the exact timings /sequences of events. Anyhow you are clearly not pro-justice if you declare people to be liars without balanced consideration.
None of them except Gerry with his 9.05 time claimed to be able to give accurate times. When they do give times they prefix them with ... 'about' or .....'around'. Many of the witness statements of staff members differ wildly when it comes to times.
There is obviously scope for error there, but discrepancies would not be automatically regarded as suspicious by experienced police officers. In fact they would regard them as normal - especially when dealing with a large group of people.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 12:30:48 PM
You all are forgetting that the presumed abductor was a clumsy, swarthy looking guy (I know that recently they are trying to make him a German or Scandinavian) that abducted a child from an apartment and went to a nice walk around the village, with the said child, for almost an hour. The moron didn't even have a car to make a swift escape and to avoid being seen, how could he be going towards the Spanish border?!
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 12:37:45 PM
Of course discrepancies are expected, of course nobody expects people to be looking at their watches when a traumatic even is announced, but that is not what a change of timeline means.
According to one of the BBC trailers, Madeleine is going to be shown in the tennis court while her father and mother were playing "just hours before she was abducted"...where does it fit with the account made by Mr. McCann, Mrs. McCann and Mr. Payne that he was sent by the father to check on the family in the apartment at 18:30h(?)!!!No witness ever mentioned that Kate McCann and/or the child were in the tennis court that afternoon.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Victoria on October 13, 2013, 12:43:58 PM
Of course discrepancies are expected, of course nobody expects people to be looking at their watches when a traumatic even is announced, but that is not what a change of timeline means.
According to one of the BBC trailers, Madeleine is going to be shown in the tennis court while her father and mother were playing "just hours before she was abducted"...where does it fit with the account made by Mr. McCann, Mrs. McCann and Mr. Payne that he was sent by the father to check on the family in the apartment at 18:30h(?)!!!No witness ever mentioned that Kate McCann and/or the child were in the tennis court that afternoon.
Have the BBC, crimewatch, or the Met said that part of the reonstruction is 'just hours before she was abducted' or was it a newspaper? Check your facts.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 13, 2013, 12:50:41 PM
None of them except Gerry with his 9.05 time claimed to be able to give accurate times. When they do give times they prefix them with ... 'about' or .....'around'. Many of the witness statements of staff members differ wildly when it comes to times.
There is obviously scope for error there, but discrepancies would not be automatically regarded as suspicious by experienced police officers. In fact they would regard them as normal - especially when dealing with a large group of people.
The quotes in the papers say 'significant changes'. To me that sounds like more than a few minutes discrepancy between different accounts. SY obviously consider it to be important.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Cariad on October 13, 2013, 12:56:54 PM
None of the tapas group had the profile of child abusers, whether sexual or otherwise. They were all happy to let their kids go off with nannies and child minders for most of the day - if they were abusing their children there is no way they would have ceded this much control over their children. Abusers, especially sexual abusers, would spend a lot more to with children when they had the opportunity, and would certainly not have allowed other people access to their children because they would not want to give up a position of control.
So child abuse on the part of any of the parents can be completely discounted.
This is utter nonsense. A friend of mine has a daughter who only had contact with her father for about 6 hours on one day a week. He used that time to sexually abuse her. It took her a year to be able to tell her Mother.
I'm not suggesting that that means any member of the Tapas 9 were child molesters, I'm just not capable of letting the above comments go by unchallenged.
Children are abused in all kinds on situations that we find difficult to understand, however, when you insist that "it's not possible" you do extreme damage to any child wishing to report the abuse.
Once again, this is a general statement and I am not suggesting for one moment that any of the adults in Madeleine's group we paedophiles or that any of the children were subject to abuse.
I am saying that child abuse happens and that victims need to be listened to with an open mind.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 01:14:55 PM
This is utter nonsense. A friend of mine has a daughter who only had contact with her father for about 6 hours on one day a week. He used that time to sexually abuse her. It took her a year to be able to tell her Mother.
I'm not suggesting that that means any member of the Tapas 9 were child molesters, I'm just not capable of letting the above comments go by unchallenged.
Children are abused in all kinds on situations that we find difficult to understand, however, when you insist that "it's not possible" you do extreme damage to any child wishing to report the abuse.
Once again, this is a general statement and I am not suggesting for one moment that any of the adults in Madeleine's group we paedophiles or that any of the children were subject to abuse.
I am saying that child abuse happens and that victims need to be listened to with an open mind.
Thank you for emphasizing this. God knows there are too many abused children and teens that go on for years and years afraid to ask for help.
NOTE: Like the above poster, it is not my intention to insinuate that this observation has anything to do with the case under discussion.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Benice on October 13, 2013, 02:45:11 PM
The quotes in the papers say 'significant changes'. To me that sounds like more than a few minutes discrepancy between different accounts. SY obviously consider it to be important.
I agree. My post was in relation to the suggestion that discrepancies in times proved people were lying.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: DCI on October 13, 2013, 02:54:25 PM
I'm curious as to how Kate and Gerry managed to open the doors each time they went in and out unless they left a tiny gap so that they could get a hand in to push the sliding glass door open. If the doors were closed all the way, the only way to open them, if they were not locked, would be to press your palm on the glass and try to push it to the side.
I wonder why no adequate fingerprints were retrieved by forensics, on the patio door, except for a GNR's print.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 13, 2013, 02:57:46 PM
quote " Of course discrepancies are expected, of course nobody expects people to be looking at their watches when a traumatic even is announced, but that is not what a change of timeline means. "
Agree,, but there were SO MANY inconsistencies, a huge red flag to any police officer.
My job involves me highlighting discrepancies and interviewing people under caution. Too much consistency in a group is another red flag. But Kate in her book gave an exact time for Gerrys check. And iirc said by his watch ! Clarrie said no watches worn that night, maybe the checks were between courses rather than by the clock. I think the revelation will be that the checks were not as frequent as claimed which will open a whole can of worms.
oh and the last independent sighting of Maddie, from a person outside the group.
eta I am not at liberty to describe my work other than to say it is for the Home Office and that I have signed the OSA.
The Smith family were outside the group. Do we mean a different sighting from that?
I agree there must be new information coming in here, which alters the interpretation of the timeline so far given by T9. A simple revision of the exact times does not constitute a new timeline.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Cariad on October 13, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
The Smith family were outside the group. Do we mean a different sighting from that?
I agree there must be new information coming in here, which alters the interpretation of the timeline so far given by T9. A simple revision of the exact times does not constitute a new timeline.
Is that now a confirmed sighting of Madeleine?
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on October 13, 2013, 06:27:58 PM
If there were no checks at all, and some were invented to mitigate responsibility by the parents, how would people feel then? Especially if it had taken 6 and a half years to come to light?
That's what the AG report clearly calls "untruths" about the checks. One of the reason why they requested a re-enactment.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 08:42:43 PM
This is utter nonsense. A friend of mine has a daughter who only had contact with her father for about 6 hours on one day a week. He used that time to sexually abuse her. It took her a year to be able to tell her Mother.
I'm not suggesting that that means any member of the Tapas 9 were child molesters, I'm just not capable of letting the above comments go by unchallenged.
Children are abused in all kinds on situations that we find difficult to understand, however, when you insist that "it's not possible" you do extreme damage to any child wishing to report the abuse.
Once again, this is a general statement and I am not suggesting for one moment that any of the adults in Madeleine's group we paedophiles or that any of the children were subject to abuse.
I am saying that child abuse happens and that victims need to be listened to with an open mind.
Thank you for sharing that, Cariad. Though it's probably not the case here, this is a reality that must be contemplated. All loving parents will agree.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Luz on October 13, 2013, 08:49:07 PM
Pffff
whatever
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 13, 2013, 08:49:58 PM
you can pick up PAYG sims all over the place and put credit on them with untraceable cash) unless there was a relevant warrant handed over. Otherwise the infringement of privacy is potentially enormous.
You can only put credit through a bank account. Infringement of privacy is the reason why access to Mr McCann's sms wasn't granted by the judge.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: C.Edwards on October 14, 2013, 07:54:51 PM
You can only put credit through a bank account. Infringement of privacy is the reason why access to Mr McCann's sms wasn't granted by the judge.
Not true Anne - you can buy prepaid sims. Or certainly could in 2007 because I bought one from a small shop in Southern Spain back then whilst on holiday and wanting to avoid ruinous roaming charges. I could have had €10, €25 or €50 I think? Not sure if they've changed rules/regs since but it was available in Spain then so no reason to believe it wouldn't be possible in Portugal really? I'm pretty sure my wife used to top up the kids' PAYG sims in the local corner shop with cash too.
Anyhow, I digress.
It seems we now know what the "revelation" will be. Namely that the window for abduction has moved. Obviously at some point SY found out that the window of opportunity was ridiculously small and made it hard to see things as they would like. Therefore what's the easy solution? Yup, chuck away Tanner's sighting, therefore opening up the evening to the opportunistic abductor from any time after Gerry's check onwards up to Kate's check.
Of course it does also then call into question the several OC staff who claimed the alarm was raised much earlier than 10pm according to their statements. Never mind. Will all be glossed over, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: Mr Gray on October 14, 2013, 07:58:02 PM
Not true Anne - you can buy prepaid sims. Or certainly could in 2007 because I bought one from a small shop in Southern Spain back then whilst on holiday and wanting to avoid ruinous roaming charges. I could have had €10, €25 or €50 I think? Not sure if they've changed rules/regs since but it was available in Spain then so no reason to believe it wouldn't be possible in Portugal really? I'm pretty sure my wife used to top up the kids' PAYG sims in the local corner shop with cash too.
Anyhow, I digress.
It seems we now know what the "revelation" will be. Namely that the window for abduction has moved. Obviously at some point SY found out that the window of opportunity was ridiculously small and made it hard to see things as they would like. Therefore what's the easy solution? Yup, chuck away Tanner's sighting, therefore opening up the evening to the opportunistic abductor from any time after Gerry's check onwards up to Kate's check.
Of course it does also then call into question the several OC staff who claimed the alarm was raised much earlier than 10pm according to their statements. Never mind. Will all be glossed over, I'm sure.
do you think the whole of SY are in on it ..like the tapas...part of the pact of silence
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: jassi on October 14, 2013, 07:59:44 PM
I have every expectation that the entire SY ream will do exactly what is expected of them.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: C.Edwards on October 14, 2013, 08:06:53 PM
Not true Anne - you can buy prepaid sims. Or certainly could in 2007 because I bought one from a small shop in Southern Spain back then whilst on holiday and wanting to avoid ruinous roaming charges. I could have had €10, €25 or €50 I think? Not sure if they've changed rules/regs since but it was available in Spain then so no reason to believe it wouldn't be possible in Portugal really?
I don't think it existed in Portugal at the time, unless you buy a new number that always comes with some euros credit. But then, to put money on it, you need a bank card.
Title: Re: Anyone have any idea what redwoods revelation was??
Post by: sumcc on October 15, 2013, 06:43:34 PM
I hope SY do what they're best at - l think they are sick of the Mccanns bleating, have their own suspicions and are putting on a 'show' of getting justice for them - but probably have their own obvious ideas who are to blame.....they are nobodys fool hopefully