UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Opposing Pat on October 18, 2013, 04:39:46 PM
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Seeing as they have funded various private investigations which have proved unsuccessful, should they wholly or part fund the SY investigation ?
I believe they should as Gerry has stated the SY investigation is the best option to find Madeleine's abductor !
Thread title edited...
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They have already paid, in the same way I have, should I need the police to investigate anything, through their taxes.
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What is the purpose of the fund if not to fund the search for her?
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Hi Jazzy, let me rephrase, should the Find Madeleine Fund contribute finances to the SY investigation ? If you believe that it should not would you then conclude that the fund should become defunct ?
No not at all. On either count.
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The Home Office have set aside funds for the Met review which has become an investigation and have been quoted as not fund or time limited although I imagne it cant go on indefinitely..without a result of some kind, the has decided to fund it, imo the question is a bit of a non starter
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Scotland Yard are already funded by public taxation. I can't think of an instance where the victim of a crime has been obliged to pay for a police investigation into that crime, even if they had the means to do you.
Imagine if the Mccanns were to be seen to be paying the police to investigate, the publicity and the reaction to the Mccanns paying the costs of the investigation, it would hardly be favourable, would it?
The fund was never exclusively for investigating, it was set up as a response to a child going missing, it had no agenda at that point. The fact the PJ failed to investigate meant it was obliged to pay for private investigators. Now it can be used in any way the trustees deem most effective. Do you want it made defunct?
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Do I think the fund should become defunct ? Absolutely given the fund objectives - http://www.findmadeleine.com/about_us/madeleines-fund.html
Fund Objectives
The full objects of the Fund are:
To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice;
And
To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.
Given that the UK exchequer is now fully funding the investigation what purpose does the fund serve ?
The only function the fund is presently providing as per it's objectives is to provide support including financial assistance to Kate & Gerry and their 2 remaining children.
the investigation isn't over
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Scotland Yard are already funded by public taxation. I can't think of an instance where the victim of a crime has been obliged to pay for a police investigation into that crime, even if they had the means to do you.
Imagine if the Mccanns were to be seen to be paying the police to investigate, the publicity and the reaction to the Mccanns paying the costs of the investigation, it would hardly be favourable, would it?
The fund was never exclusively for investigating, it was set up as a response to a child going missing, it had no agenda at that point. The fact the PJ failed to investigate meant it was obliged to pay for private investigators. Now it can be used in any way the trustees deem most effective. Do you want it made defunct?
Sorry to pick you up but its important to remember that MM is the victim. The parents are relatives of the victim and suspects in the eyes of some but it does suit certain agendas if they are portrayed as the victims.
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Sorry to pick you up but its important to remember that MM is the victim. The parents are relatives of the victim and suspects in the eyes of some but it does suit certain agendas if they are portrayed as the victims.
the whole of maddies family are also victims
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the whole of maddies family are also victims
no maddie is the victim
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Do I think the fund should become defunct ? Absolutely given the fund objectives - http://www.findmadeleine.com/about_us/madeleines-fund.html
Fund Objectives
The full objects of the Fund are:
To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice;
And
To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.
Given that the UK exchequer is now fully funding the investigation what purpose does the fund serve ?
The only function the fund is presently providing as per it's objectives is to provide support including financial assistance to Kate & Gerry and their 2 remaining children.
The fund was set up mid May 07 IIRC, how can those first two have been objectives of the fund.....that was the polices job at the time...could they forecast the future? That the police would close the investigation and / or that they would need PIs?
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no maddie is the victim
as far as I am concerned maddie and all her family are victims..what you think is up to you
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No I don't think so . How much is left ?
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Sorry to pick you up but its important to remember that MM is the victim. The parents are relatives of the victim and suspects in the eyes of some but it does suit certain agendas if they are portrayed as the victims.
No sorry to pick you up, the Mccanns are the victims of a crime, someone took their child. I think you'll find that I'm legally correct there.
No one, certainly not me forgets that Madeline is missing, that she is also a victim.
Which agendas do you mean? People who don't want the Mccanns hung high?
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no maddie is the victim
You do recall she insisted on being called Madeline, don't you?
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The issue I have with the British tax payer payint includes that the crime didn't happen on British soil, terratory etc, they set up a fund to continue searching, Ben Needham didn't get any help in this manner or anyone else I can think of and the issue of this wouldn't have happened but for the fact the Mccanns left their children alone and now the tax payer is paying for their error.
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as is maddie and yet pros and gerry and kate supporters dont care about that
No, that's not the case carly, and you can't post it as fact.
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The issue I have with the British tax payer payint includes that the crime didn't happen on British soil, terratory etc, they set up a fund to continue searching, Ben Needham didn't get any help in this manner or anyone else I can think of and the issue of this wouldn't have happened but for the fact the Mccanns left their children alone and now the tax payer is paying for their error.
I don't mind the tax I pay helping to find a missing child this is about madeleine not a bash at her parents.
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The issue I have with the British tax payer payint includes that the crime didn't happen on British soil, terratory etc, they set up a fund to continue searching, Ben Needham didn't get any help in this manner or anyone else I can think of and the issue of this wouldn't have happened but for the fact the Mccanns left their children alone and now the tax payer is paying for their error.
But that's not Madeleine McCanns fault is it?
I would no more expect the fund to pay SY than I would expect April Jones fund to pay towards the £3million that searching for her cost the taxpayer.
To begrudge any of the money spent in trying to find missing children, whoever they are, is mean-spirited in the extreme IMO.
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But that's not Madeleine McCanns fault is it?
I would no more expect the fund to pay SY than I would expect April Jones fund to pay towards the £3million that searching for her cost the taxpayer.
To begrudge any of the money spent in trying to find missing children, whoever they are, is mean-spirited in the extreme IMO.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
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But that's not Madeleine McCanns fault is it?
I would no more expect the fund to pay SY than I would expect April Jones fund to pay towards the £3million that searching for her cost the taxpayer.
To begrudge any of the money spent in trying to find missing children, whoever they are, is mean-spirited in the extreme IMO.
well said 8((()*/
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Perhaps since we are paying for the search for Madeleine through our taxes (which I fully support) it would be nice if the find Madeleine fund was donated to a missing children charity?
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No it's not Madeleine's fault, it's the fault of the parents and if SY fund one case abroad then they need to fund all of them as apose to one case, not to mention what exactly did the money spent on individuals throw up? It looks like nothing of any value that I have heard, they've effectively spent the fund money on what? Then the charged for wrist bands, flyers etc. In the case of Shannon Matthew, the locals got them printed off for free, surely this is a better incentive than to charge or if they want to charge, spend it on something productive.
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Perhaps since we are paying for the search for Madeleine through our taxes (which I fully support) it would be nice if the find Madeleine fund was donated to a missing children charity?
I agree.
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Perhaps since we are paying for the search for Madeleine through our taxes (which I fully support) it would be nice if the find Madeleine fund was donated to a missing children charity?
It already has been, MISSING Madeline Mccann.
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No it's not Madeleine's fault, it's the fault of the parents and if SY fund one case abroad then they need to fund all of them as apose to one case, not to mention what exactly did the money spent on individuals throw up? It looks like nothing of any value that I have heard, they've effectively spent the fund money on what? Then the charged for wrist bands, flyers etc. In the case of Shannon Matthew, the locals got them printed off for free, surely this is a better incentive than to charge or if they want to charge, spend it on something productive.
It's actually the fault of whoever took their child, as a matter of fact.
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It's actually the fault of whoever took their child, as a matter of fact.
Although there is no proof of abduction.
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It already has been, MISSING Madeline Mccann.
Children. Plural. Madeleine Mccann is being looked for by Sy, paid from taxes. Madeleine is not the only lost child out there.
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Perhaps since we are paying for the search for Madeleine through our taxes (which I fully support) it would be nice if the find Madeleine fund was donated to a missing children charity?
The McCanns have already raised over £50,000 for missing peoples charities.
I notice that once again the fact that a huge amount of the money in the fund is the McCanns own money - which they could have put into their own private bank accounts, but they didn't. I have yet to find a 'sceptic' who will even acknowledge that quite significant fact - let alone comment on it.
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Children. Plural. Madeleine Mccann is being looked for by Sy, paid from taxes. Madeleine is not the only lost child out there.
People contributed to that fund in her name. Others were also looked for using UK tax funds. Other missing children should have similar funds. The fact is, this one belongs to Madeline. Do you want it taken away from her then?
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Missing Madeleine McCann has not been granted charitable status Jazzy, therefore it is not a charity !
You are quite right.
The fund was given in her name though. Would you like to see it taken away from her, Opposing Pat?
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Children. Plural. Madeleine Mccann is being looked for by Sy, paid from taxes. Madeleine is not the only lost child out there.
Whether Madeleine is found or not, the fact is a huge amount of information, knowledge and expertise will have been gained by our police force because of the McCann case, which will help other children who go missing in the future - which sadly they will.
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Missing Madeleine McCann has not been granted charitable status Jazzy, therefore it is not a charity !
yes you are right its not a charity its a private fund madeleines fund ..and ?
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Do I want what taken from her ? The name of the fund or the cash held in it ?
The cash.
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Although there is no proof of abduction.
No proof her parents "did it" either. Scotland Yard are following abduction as a line of enquiry and the Mccanns are not persons of interest to them, not conclusive, I agree, but the recent Crimewatch did point to an abductor.
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No proof her parents "did it" either. Scotland Yard are following abduction as a line of enquiry and the Mccanns are not persons of interest to them, not conclusive, I agree, but the recent Crimewatch did point to an abductor.
No, a possible one......
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Seeing as they have funded various private investigations which have proved unsuccessful, should they wholly or part fund the SY investigation ?
I believe they should as Gerry has stated the SY investigation is the best option to find Madeleine's abductor !
Thread title edited...
So what do you think? Should the Mccanns give the considerable (in my circumstances and income, not in any major sense) sum I donated to the police to do what I already pay them to do through my taxes?
I'd like to know what your view is.
As a tax payer, I have already paid the police, what I gave to the fund when Madeline went missing wasn't given to enable the police to do their job, it was to help the Mccanns and their child.
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No, a possible one......
As was always the same in reference to her parents. Elipsis is a good device, isn't it?
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As was always the same in reference to her parents. Elipsis is a good device, isn't it?
were talking about redwood and what he says and means...he has only always said there was a possibility of abduction...steady on
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Absolutely, what purpose does the fund hold from this point forward if the tab for the SY investigation I'd being picked up by the UK exchequer ?
Would it not be utilized in better ways by registered charities in other areas rather than sitting in a bank account doing nothing ?
if SY come up with nothing, with a team of 40 odd and spending what is said to cost 11 m pounds, thats on top of what the PJ spent and LP initially, and what they paid or didnt pay to private investigators, I doubt the fund could be justified to be used after that in hiring ever more PIs, as none of the seven lots or so have been fruitful at all, it will probably be used for private publicity campaigns and things like that......
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And that is why the fund should now become defunct i.e. there is no need for future donations as the UK exchequer is now footing the bill for the investigation !
I didn't contribute to fund an investigation, I contributed to help Madeline and her parents. I did that irrespective of the exchequer. I fully expected a full and professional police investigation by the PJ at the time. That was already funded when I mademy contribution.
So why should it become defunct?
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But given that the vast majority of the fund's cash reserve was spent on investigation expenses are we now more likely to see a further escalation of a public awareness programme for Madeleine ?
Surely by this stage the world and his wife is aware of Madeleine's plight, no ?
What more can be done to further raise awareness of this case ?
Nothing imo
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Nothing imo
Obviously.
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Obviously.
Its saturated....and has been for years.....you can do sporadic and yearly appeals but the mass publicity this has had globally cant go any further can it? Be sensible/pragmatic.
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Have you read the fund objectives of the Find Madeleine Fund ? By making a donation you were contributing to fund an investigation, a private investigation outside of a state police investigation !
As I've replied to you previously, now that that investigation is being paid for by the UK exchequer there is no further need for the Find Madeleine Fund !
P.S. There are 3 'e's in Madeleine.
Fair enough, as many as as you like,.
I paid into that fund before the objectives were established, I just gave what I could to help them all.
Things have changed and it's finally being investigated.
Why is there no further need for a fund?
It was initially given to help the family, then used to investigate where the PJ didn't.
Did you contribute?
Could you now, with your current view ask for your possible contribution to be refunded? That would be your objective met, wouldn't it?
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Jazzy you keep contradicting the need for the fund, you've agreed that the SY investigation is being funded by the UK exchequer and now you've agreed with Red that no more can be done to raise awareness of Madeleine's plight !
So once again, why should the fund not now become defunct and any cash reserves held within it not be distributed to other registered charities ?
No, no contradiction, my view hasn't altered one iota, I was commenting on Redblossom's.
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None on the day I contributed.
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None on the day I contributed.
Well seems over a million pounds in contributions wasnt enough a few weekss later after the fund was created they started selling merchandise! or is that normal?
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the whole of maddies family are also victims
I am desperately trying to be open minded about this case and not take things as fact before there is the evidence to do so. If we start referring to the parents as victims , this has to be based on the fact that their child was abducted. As is proof from so much debate, this has yet to be proven. Hence the fact that I have to object to the referral that they are victims rather than "possible victims" . I am sorry if this appears anal but if we accept certain things a fact before proved, little gets acheived. The spin off is that by picking up on use of such language takes the thread off topic and for that I am sorry.
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I didn't contribute to fund an investigation, I contributed to help Madeline and her parents. I did that irrespective of the exchequer. I fully expected a full and professional police investigation by the PJ at the time. That was already funded when I mademy contribution.
So why should it become defunct?
Do you not think that since Madeleine is being looked for and her parents are able to support themselves that the money would be better spent on missing children who don't have a special SY task force or a father earning in the region of three times the average wage?
It seems that the money could really benefit other children in a way that it can't now benefit Madeleine. In fact I think it would be a rather touching gesture if the donation of the fund was made in her name.
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How much is left ?
It's like saying if Madeleine is found should everyone donate the money they have made from her name ? No why are people bothered about money
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It might even make some people despise them just a tiny fraction less.
April Jones' parent gave all the donated money to help a little girl in Africa have a better life.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/funds-memory-april-jones-sponsor-6092936
I always thought Coral Jones was a remarkably dignified woman. Watching her grief was truly heart breaking.
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Jazzy you keep contradicting the need for the fund, you've agreed that the SY investigation is being funded by the UK exchequer and now you've agreed with Red that no more can be done to raise awareness of Madeleine's plight !
So once again, why should the fund not now become defunct and any cash reserves held within it not be distributed to other registered charities ?
I would assume the majority of money now in the fund has come from the profits from Kate's book. It was her decision to make that contribution and I don't see how it can be anyone else's place to tell her what she should or should not be doing with her own money.
If nothing comes of the SY investigation it will up to the McCanns to decide how to continue the search for their daughter and how to fund it. One thing is for certain, just like Kerry Needham, they will not give up until they find out what happened to their child.
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I would assume the majority of money now in the fund has come from the profits from Kate's book. It was her decision to make that contribution and I don't see how it can be anyone else's place to tell her what she should or should not be doing with her own money.
If nothing comes of the SY investigation it will up to the McCanns to decide how to continue the search for their daughter and how to fund it. One thing is for certain, just like Kerry Needham, they will not give up until they find out what happened to their child.
Add to that the Express payouts to the McCanns and their friend too.
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Add to that the Express payouts to the McCanns and their friend too.
Yes indeed LB - I'd forgotten about that. That's another £900,000 that could have gone straight into the private bank accounts of the McCanns and their friends, but was paid into the fund instead.
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that she is also a victim.
What ? Also a victim ? She is the only victim and you don't know what happened to her. As long as the crime isn't defined, the McCanns are not victims, which doesn't deny their suffering.
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Yes indeed LB - I'd forgotten about that. That's another £900,000 that could have gone straight into the private bank accounts of the McCanns and their friends, but was paid into the fund instead.
Instead of going straight, it passes through the fund before coming back somehow. No PI is appointed any more, so what is the money for ?
I don't mind their business, only "the money will go to the search for Madeleine".
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Yes indeed LB - I'd forgotten about that. That's another £900,000 that could have gone straight into the private bank accounts of the McCanns and their friends, but was paid into the fund instead.
The first crooks, Metodo3, and the second crook, Halligen, had to be paid, isn't it ?
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The first crooks, Metodo3, and the second crook, Halligen, had to be paid, isn't it ?
Hardly the McCanns fault that they became one of several victims of a very skilled conman.
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The first crooks, Metodo3, and the second crook, Halligen, had to be paid, isn't it ?
Except some of these crooks as you call them, gave info to the PJ, and it was ignored. NR box I expect!
You never mention all amaral's friends who are crooks ?>)()<
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The first crooks, Metodo3, and the second crook, Halligen, had to be paid, isn't it ?
what about the third crook..amaral...and the fourth crook..tavares
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What is your reasoning on both counts ?
The Fund states that the vast majority of expenditure is spent on investigative purposes, seeing as SY are the only agency investigating the abduction does it not follow that the Fund should be contributing finances to the search ?
Pat here in the UK the police are an independent body. It would be totally unacceptable for a body or individual to contribute to a police investigation as it could be argued that this would affect the police impartiality. Your argument is a total non starter
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The money could be donated to an independent charity.
Should be no problem on that one.
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Pat here in the UK the police are an independent body. It would be totally unacceptable for a body or individual to contribute to a police investigation as it could be argued that this would affect the police impartiality. Your argument is a total non starter
An excellent point Davel.
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Pat here in the UK the police are an independent body. It would be totally unacceptable for a body or individual to contribute to a police investigation as it could be argued that this would affect the police impartiality. Your argument is a total non starter
I did point that out last evening.
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Kate jst raised £21000 and donated to missing peope
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9061383/Private-firms-give-UK-police-forces-millions-of-pounds-to-investigate-crimes.html
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Off topic posts have been removed. A Poll has now been added to this thread as requested.
This polll misses the point
Of course the fund serves a purpose
... the question is, is the purpose it serves legitimate and honestly declared
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To maintain integrity a police investigation should not receive funding from a limited company.