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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on October 25, 2013, 02:05:47 PM
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I have been following the libel trial with interest and the common question which arises time after time is did the book or the documentary damage the search for Madeleine? The answer from the investigating officers comes back each and every time as an overwhelming "no".
So who did hinder, obstruct, curtail, circumvent or damage the search for Madeleine. I am very sure that if Madeleine is still alive she herself will want to know this some day.
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I have been following the libel trial with interest and the common question which arises time after time is did the book or the documentary damage the search for Madeleine? The answer from the investigating officers comes back each and every time as an overwhelming "no".
So who did hinder, obstruct, curtail, circumvent or damage the search for Madeleine. I am very sure that if Madeleine is still alive she herself will want to know this some day.
The sun? Not the news paper, the celestial body. Didn't Kate say it was too dark?
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My own view is that the tapas 9 effectively strangled the investigation which in turn meant Madeleine was for all intents and purposes abandoned.
The tapas group refused to cooperate with the PJ when asked to return to take part in proper reconstruction. This is spelt out in the AG archiving report.
The McCanns themselves got out of Portugal pdq when they realised the spotlight was on them. Innocent people don't run as Kate pointed out in her novel... they did run all the same!!
They damaged the search for Madeleine by their own actions and now they want to blame Amaral. I have news for them... they are gonna lose just as they lost the injunction against his book!
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My own view is that the tapas 9 effectively strangled the investigation which in turn meant Madeleine was for all intents and purposes abandoned.
The tapas group refused to cooperate with the PJ when asked to return to take part in proper reconstruction. This is spelt out in the AG archiving report.
The McCanns themselves got out of Portugal pdq when they realised the spotlight was on them. Innocent people don't run as Kate pointed out in her novel... they did run all the same!!
Agreed.
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I have been following the libel trial with interest and the common question which arises time after time is did the book or the documentary damage the search for Madeleine? The answer from the investigating officers comes back each and every time as an overwhelming "no".
So who did hinder, obstruct, curtail, circumvent or damage the search for Madeleine. I am very sure that if Madeleine is still alive she herself will want to know this some day.
This libel trial, among other interesting ones, raises the search issue. Before examining what could have "hindered, obstructed, curtailed, circumented or damaged" the search, to use your words, Angelo, wouldn't it be useful to reflect upon the "search for" concept. What does it stand for exactly ? Do, for instance, the McCanns' supporters have executed some action they can depict as "search for Madeleine" ? It's no excuse to live in the UK, because Madeleine, from the start, could be anywhere. So what are our mental representations of the search for Madeleine ?
I live in Lisbon and when I'm in the street, I like to look at kids, I daily cross little blond girls, it never passed my mind they could be Madeleine. Why ? Because nothing suggests they're not fine. If something suggested it, whether brown or blond hair, whether blue or dark eyes, whether 3 or 5 or 7, whether cute or not, I wouldn't pass my way without trying to know more.
No child cries in the public space in Portugal without having immediately dozen of people, not only ladies, around.
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This libel trial, among other interesting ones, raises the search issue. Before examining what could have "hindered, obstructed, curtailed, circumented or damaged" the search, to use your words, Angelo, wouldn't it be useful to reflect upon the "search for" concept. What does it stand for exactly ? Do, for instance, the McCanns' supporters have executed some action they can depict as "search for Madeleine" ? It's no excuse to live in the UK, because Madeleine, from the start, could be anywhere. So are our mental representations of the search for Madeleine ?
I live in Lisbon and when I'm in the street, I like to look at kids, I daily cross little blond girls, it never passed my mind they could be Madeleine. Why ? Because nothing suggests they're not fine. If something suggested it, whether brown or blond hair, whether blue or dark eyes, whether 3 or 5 or 7, whether cute or not, I wouldn't pass my way without trying to know more.
No child cries in the public space in Portugal without having immediately dozen of people, not only ladies, around.
"I like to look at kids"
Careful Anne.
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I have been following the libel trial with interest and the common question which arises time after time is did the book or the documentary damage the search for Madeleine? The answer from the investigating officers comes back each and every time as an overwhelming "no".
So who did hinder, obstruct, curtail, circumvent or damage the search for Madeleine. I am very sure that if Madeleine is still alive she herself will want to know this some day.
So who did hinder, obstruct, curtail, circumvent or damage the search for Madeleine.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2765.0
SO – What reason did you have to comment on this case?
MF says that first it is his job. He does it professionally because he has experience of being a police inspector and has connections with the police. In this particular case he says that very early he claimed that the police were making errors.
SO – Why?
MF Because they should have considered all the possible hypotheses instead of restricting the investigation to the prefabricated idea of abduction.
McCann supporters will no doubt delight at "police were making errors"
Problem is those errors appear to be not investigating the parents & trusting them when they claimed abduction.
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Anne is right in what she asks. What constitutes "The Search".
I must say I am somewhat surprised that the honourable Lady Judge has not in the first instance saw fit to determine an answer to this question.
Does sitting in a TV studio being interviewed about your life constitute searching?
Does taking part in public sports events constitute searching?
Does raising civil actions against critics constitute searching?
Does meeting the Pope constitute searching?
Does working as a cardiac specialist constitute searching?
If any of the above is answered in an affirmative, please tell me how Dr Amaral has sabotaged it by writing a book?
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That's interesting because my son who isn't usually interested in these things asked me last night if the McCanns did any searching for Madeleine?? I must admit I had to think about it but then again have they??
If you compare their efforts to that of Ben Needhams family then the answer must be an emphatic no. So why are the McCanns getting so much public money spent on them when they have a huge fund yet the Needhams get next to nothing and have very little anyway? There surely is something very wrong here.
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That's interesting because my son who isn't usually interested in these things asked me last night if the McCanns did any searching for Madeleine?? I must admit I had to think about it but then again have they??
If you compare their efforts to that of Ben Needhams family then the answer must be an emphatic no. So why are the McCanns getting so much public money spent on them when they have a huge fund yet the Needhams get next to nothing and have very little anyway? There surely is something very wrong here.
I can see the basis of a new thread here Angelo.
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"I like to look at kids"
Careful Anne.
I"m not a man and to-day kids will built a world I shall not be part of, so I speculate about what that world will look like.
Suddenly it occurs to me I never heard of paedophile women, but why not ? What I heard of is a woman sexually abusing her daughter.
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That's interesting because my son who isn't usually interested in these things asked me last night if the McCanns did any searching for Madeleine?? I must admit I had to think about it but then again have they??
If you compare their efforts to that of Ben Needhams family then the answer must be an emphatic no. So why are the McCanns getting so much public money spent on them when they have a huge fund yet the Needhams get next to nothing and have very little anyway? There surely is something very wrong here.
They have a huge lobby supporting them... and the lawyers. Unfortunately other families don't.
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I"m not a man and to-day kids will built a world I shall not be part of, so I speculate about what that world will look like.
Suddenly it occurs to me I never heard of paedophile women, but why not ? What I heard of is a woman sexually abusing her daughter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Plymouth_child_abuse_case
Vanessa George. I think evil is a suitable word to describe her! She abused the children (babies and toddlers) in her care!
I don't know why, but it always feels worse if it's a woman commiting a crime like that.
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What damaged the search ?
Well I would say one thing that almost certainly damaged the search was the media circus the McCann people invited to PDL before the McCanns had even set foot inside Portimao police station
To this day I cannot understand why they contacted the British press/media that very night
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I"m not a man and to-day kids will built a world I shall not be part of, so I speculate about what that world will look like.
Suddenly it occurs to me I never heard of paedophile women, but why not ? What I heard of is a woman sexually abusing her daughter.
Mass hysteria over paedophilia around the time of Madeleine's 'abduction' is what made the public buy it.
Operation Ore etc
Ever seen the award winning 'Brass Eye..Paedogeddon'?
It was a satirical look at the way the media went & got hyped up over nonces, and forced it into the public mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcU7FaEEzNU
Folk will fall for 'abduction by paedophiles' because of the media.
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Another thing that I think probably damaged the search was the McCanns relentless 'awareness' campaign
I know that may be a controversial opinion, but I really do feel that chasing 'sightings' reported from all over the world took valuable resources and police manpower away from the immediate job at hand
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Another thing that I think probably damaged the search was the McCanns relentless 'awareness' campaign
I know that may be a controversial opinion, but I really do feel that chasing 'sightings' reported from all over the world took valuable resources and police manpower away from the immediate job at hand
Not controversial at all - plenty of police would agree with you I think, probably including review boss Hamish Campbell after his experience on the Dando investigation. Information overload is a huge problem on high profile cases like these.
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There are a very limited number of people who can actually help to locate Madeleine. Unfortunately, no one knows who they are, and they probably don't know themselves. So it is necessary to keep the profile of Madeleine high in the minds of everyone. This is what The McCanns seek to do.
But if people think that she is dead then some people simply won't bother to even think about anything that might be suspicious.
There is no doubt that the word of the PJ Inspector who coordinated the case will have been taken into account as more reliable than most, which is one of the reasons for why his word had to be challenged.
He was also becoming more vociferous as the months went by.
Personally, I believe that if he had stopped with his book then The McCanns would have let it go by. It was the video and the numerous interviews that made it obvious to anyone that he was just going to go on and on with even more explicit theories., which have fuelled the most appalling Internet campaign against The McCanns, and consequently Madeleine.
I have no idea what will become of The Libel Trial, but one must remember that this was instituted some considerable time ago when Amaral was at his worst in defaming The McCanns. No Police Officer ex or otherwise should be allowed to do this when he has absolutely no proof.
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I agree with icabodcrane and Lyall. And John.
Also, with such a media overload, it always struck me that if somebody had taken Madeleine then she was now especially dangerous to them and that might make them think the only thing they could now do is get rid of her all together (i.e. kill her).
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The sun? Not the news paper, the celestial body. Didn't Kate say it was too dark?
no she didn't..you do believe some rubbish
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The sun? Not the news paper, the celestial body. Didn't Kate say it was too dark?
Direct quote from Saint Kate: "As soon as it was light, Gerry and I returned to our search..." I'd agree that this indicates that, prior to it being light, it was too dark to search for some reason best known to the McCanns.
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the clue is in "dark"
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the clue is in "dark"
Please elaborate. I don't follow your argument?
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Please elaborate. I don't follow your argument?
just to elaborate - it was dark
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Direct quote from Saint Kate: "As soon as it was light, Gerry and I returned to our search..." I'd agree that this indicates that, prior to it being light, it was too dark to search for some reason best known to the McCanns.
and what do you think "retuned to our search" indicates
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just to elaborate - it was dark
So are you saying that Kate McCann is saying, implicitly at least, that it was too dark to search prior to the point at which they determined it was light enough? Too dark to go out and look for their missing child. With torches, perhaps?
Oh, you may want to point out to davel at some point that he's made a bit of a whoopsie of himself again a bit further up there ^^^ if that's the case. Angelo has a less polite way of putting it that I shan't repeat 8(0(*
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Two questions.
Firstly, in light of this forum rule, "ensure that any material posted is accompanied by the relevant links" could I ask Angelo to provide links to support his claim in the OP that investigating officers always say 'No.'?
Secondly, with respect to the matter of the McCanns' searching. What other methods of searching is Angelo proposing that the McCanns should have undertaken besides hiring Private Investigators and maintaining a very high profile for their daughter in order that millions of people keep a look out for her? Is there some suggestion that they should have perhaps done as Birch did illegally and break into properties to dig up gardens? Should they have spent the last six years searching bins in the neighbourhood of PDL? Should they have personally learned to drive bulldozers and spent their lives digging over the sand and rocks of PDL beach? Just what are they supposed to have been doing in the eyes of Angelo I wonder?
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So are you saying that Kate McCann is saying, implicitly at least, that it was too dark to search prior to the point at which they determined it was light enough? Too dark to go out and look for their missing child. With torches, perhaps?
Oh, you may want to point out to davel at some point that he's made a bit of a whoopsie of himself again a bit further up there ^^^ if that's the case. Angelo has a less polite way of putting it that I shan't repeat 8(0(*
You can do it yourself kate never said it was too dark to search...could
you try and stick to the truth
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So are you saying that Kate McCann is saying, implicitly at least, that it was too dark to search prior to the point at which they determined it was light enough? Too dark to go out and look for their missing child. With torches, perhaps?
Oh, you may want to point out to davel at some point that he's made a bit of a whoopsie of himself again a bit further up there ^^^ if that's the case. Angelo has a less polite way of putting it that I shan't repeat 8(0(*
"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
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"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
I still can't believe that the McCanns think it is in any way reasonable to spend the night making phone calls/texting/deleting texts/whatever and then only popping out to search once they deem it light enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have been out there tearing up bushes with my bare hands looking for a missing daughter of mine. Banging on doors, looking around, you know... "searching" I think it's called?
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"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
I would be interested in seeing evidence of that.
Could you provide a few examples of cases in which the parents have "searched through the night" as you claim?
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I still can't believe that the McCanns think it is in any way reasonable to spend the night making phone calls/texting/deleting texts/whatever and then only popping out to search once they deem it light enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have been out there tearing up bushes with my bare hands looking for a missing daughter of mine. Banging on doors, looking around, you know... "searching" I think it's called?
Just because you and others may have done something at a particular time of stress does not mean that is what everyone would have done.
There is clear evidence that the McCanns did physically search from daylight, at least one GNR officer having seen them. And of course they spent the rest of the day being whisked to Portimao to give statements so could not have physically searched then.
But I repeat my questions relating to what people are claiming here.
What physical searching should the McCanns have been doing for the last few years. The OP certainly suggests that they should have been doing some.
And where is the evidence that other parents who are actually in that situation physically "searched all night" as opposed to the claims by those who have never been under that stress that that is what they would have done? Is there any evidence for people having done this in other similar cases?
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"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
IIRC April Jones parents didn't search once the police had been called. Maybe they were in no state to search mentally or physically, or maybe it was because the police always ask parents to stay at home in case the child returns and so they they (the police) know exactly where the parents are.
Missing Ayrshire toddler Sandy Davidson's mother Margaret told Lorraine Kelly that she couldn't physically take part in the search for her son because she was too afraid that she might be the one to find him and she was afraid of what that might be.
I've never seen a word of criticism for those parents.
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IIRC April Jones parents didn't search once the police had been called. Maybe they were in no state to search mentally or physically, or maybe it was because the police always ask parents to stay at home in case the child returns and so they they (the police) know exactly where the parents are.
Missing Ayrshire toddler Sandy Davidson's mother Margaret told Lorraine Kelly that she couldn't physically take part in the search for her son because she was too afraid that she might be the one to find him and she was afraid of what that might be.
I've never seen a word of criticism for those parents.
That is the reality.
I am waiting now for those who claim that other parents in similar situations have "searched through the night" to provide examples.
Anti McCanns (who thankfully have not been in the same situation) loudly proclaim that is what they WOULD have done but that is irrelevant. Lets see the real cases where it has been done.
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I am sure that some parents would search and search, just as others wouldn't.
However, if the Mccanns had searched through the night, they would have been accused of hiding the body in that time.
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That is the reality.
I am waiting now for those who claim that other parents in similar situations have "searched through the night" to provide examples.
Anti McCanns (who thankfully have not been in the same situation) loudly proclaim that is what they WOULD have done but that is irrelevant. Lets see the real cases where it has been done.
Quote from: Wonderfulspam on Today at 06:27:25 PM
"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
No mention of parents there, & note the "heard" bit.
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IIRC April Jones parents didn't search once the police had been called. Maybe they were in no state to search mentally or physically, or maybe it was because the police always ask parents to stay at home in case the child returns and so they they (the police) know exactly where the parents are.
Missing Ayrshire toddler Sandy Davidson's mother Margaret told Lorraine Kelly that she couldn't physically take part in the search for her son because she was too afraid that she might be the one to find him and she was afraid of what that might be.
I've never seen a word of criticism for those parents.
The Jones were the targets of critcism, as well, all for daring let thier child play outside on her bicicly.
Once the police are called, parents are not encouraged to search, initial searches are carried out by the police not least because of concern about what parents or any other member of the public might find.
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(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZytE8Wn_FEHDIquQJ7jcJnJ_7gXEXouBOx2BpU6ZC1njEcdte)
what size torch would you need?
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Quote from: Wonderfulspam on Today at 06:27:25 PM
"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
No mention of parents there, & note the "heard" bit.
Am I right in thinking you are saying the Mccanns missing child wasn't important enough to them for them to search for her?
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From Kates Book
On my insistence Gerry and Dave went out again to look for some sign of Madeleine. They went up and down the beach in the dark, running, shouting, desperate to find something; please God, to find Madeleine herself...............................
...................................At one point I went out to speak to the police, needing some reassurance. It was difficult and exasperating as communication was so limited and there was no reassurance to be had. I walked briskly up and down Rua Dr Agostinho da Siva, sometimes breaking into a jog, clinging to the hope that I'd spot something in the dark. The fear of Madeleine being dumped somewhere and dying of hypothermia started to hijack my thoughts.............................
............................As soon as it was light Gerry and I resumed our search. We went up and down roads we'd never seen before, having barely left the Ocean Club complex all week. We jumped over walls and raked through undergrowth. We looked in in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster type bin and saying to myself please God, don't let it be her
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I am sure that some parents would search and search, just as others wouldn't.
However, if the Mccanns had searched through the night, they would have been accused of hiding the body in that time.
You made a claim that you have seen examples of parents who "searched through the night". Can you provide examples or is that just an opinion as now seems likely from this post?
You are right of course that had the McCanns been searching that would have been turned on them.
But it is not as far as I can see, the norm for parents in a similar situation to actually search through the night.
Can anyone show otherwise by citing actual examples of it having been done rather than trite remarks that that is what they WOULD have done?
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(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3h7SRCi5lse4pC4hFl3tYd24rDW69-t1FkzTd0iINRnzaO1V-)
floodlights?
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Quote from: Wonderfulspam on Today at 06:27:25 PM
"Searched through the night" I've heard used in missing persons incidents before. Seems she wasn't important enough for that.
No mention of parents there, & note the "heard" bit.
But are there ANY examples of that ever having been done by parents in similar situations?
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That is the reality.
I am waiting now for those who claim that other parents in similar situations have "searched through the night" to provide examples.
Anti McCanns (who thankfully have not been in the same situation) loudly proclaim that is what they WOULD have done but that is irrelevant. Lets see the real cases where it has been done.
Gerry went to sleep that night ... a matter of hours after Madeleine was found missing
Not only was he not 'searching through the night' ... he was asleep !
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hours after Madeleine was found missing
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Yes ... the same night that Madeleine disappeared, instead of searching for her in the darkness, Gerry was sleeping
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Direct quote from Saint Kate: "As soon as it was light, Gerry and I returned to our search..." I'd agree that this indicates that, prior to it being light, it was too dark to search for some reason best known to the McCanns.
You posted this. Are you acting bit thick on purpose. It clearly states that the McCanns returned to their search on daylight...indicating that they had already been searching in...wait for it..what do you get before daylight..darkness
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Gerry went to sleep that night ... a matter of hours after Madeleine was found missing
Not only was he not 'searching through the night' ... he was asleep !
How do you know Gerry went to sleep just hours after madeleine went missing icab ..were you there in his bed ?
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Gerry went to sleep that night ... a matter of hours after Madeleine was found missing
Not only was he not 'searching through the night' ... he was asleep !
what time did he go to sleep..you have made a serious accusation..don't run away
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For God's sake. They slept from 4am to 6am, if in fact they slept at all. What did anyone expect them to do? Fall down into the road works in the dark?
This is so cruel and so utterly unreasonable.
And then that next day they were at the mercy of the police.
Why are you trying to tear them to shreds like this?
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For God's sake. They slept from 4am to 6am, if in fact they slept at all. What did anyone expect them to do? Fall down into the road works in the dark?
This is so cruel and so utterly unreasonable.
And then that next day they were at the mercy of the police.
Why are you trying to tear them to shreds like this?
What do you think the local residents and holidaymakers were doing all night and many for several days afterward ?
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For God's sake. They slept from 4am to 6am, if in fact they slept at all. What did anyone expect them to do? Fall down into the road works in the dark?
This is so cruel and so utterly unreasonable.
And then that next day they were at the mercy of the police.
Why are you trying to tear them to shreds like this?
Yes, Gerry slept ... Kate confirms he did in her book
You can offer all the rationale you want Eleanor ... I find it unbelievable that any father in those circumstances would be ABLE to sleep
Gerry was able
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What's that strange quote from Kate In her book about checking a wheelie bin for Madeleine?
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yes he should have searched all night till he was so exhausted that he fell aslepp during daylight hours and missed being interviewed but the Police.
If he had been out all night he would have been accused of hiding the body.
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What do you think the local residents and holidaymakers were doing all night and many for several days afterward ?
They all packed in around 4am, and the police left. There was no one around when Kate and Gerry went out at daylight. And this is not a critisism. Just a fact.
After that The PJ took up much of their time, and that isn't a critisism either.
Meanwhile Goncalo Amaral was having lunch, or breakfast or dinner. and it was all too bloody late.
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and when were the first interviews with the police?
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Gerry went to sleep that night ... a matter of hours after Madeleine was found missing
Not only was he not 'searching through the night' ... he was asleep !
Perhaps you are not aware what shock can do to people?
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some people don't even have 20/20 hindsight they are so blinded by their prejudice and hate.
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They all packed in around 4am, and the police left. There was no one around when Kate and Gerry went out at daylight. And this is not a critisism. Just a fact.
After that The PJ took up much of their time, and that isn't a critisism either.
Meanwhile Goncalo Amaral was having lunch, or breakfast or dinner. and it was all too bloody late.
'all too bloody late'
Not if the Mccanns had taken proper care of their children.
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Perhaps you are not aware what shock can do to people?
Whatever reason you ascribe it to, we can agree that the reason Gerry was not out 'searching through the night' was because he was asleep
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I still cannot find a single example of a couple in the same situation as the McCanns having "searched all night".
It was suggested earlier by a poster here that somehow this might be the norm.
Without a single example of it ever having happened, how can it be normal in any way?
It may well be what people think they should do, what they even think they would do but the reality appears that it is not what is actually ever done.
So the McCanns were acting perfectly normally.
There was also the matter in the OP of those investigating officers "each and every time" stating that the Amaral thesis (book and film) had not damaged the search. So far not a single example of such officers has been given as the forum rules suggest they should be. I am sure they exist, just would like to see them so that I can consider the actual wording.
And what about the nature of the "search". What is it, in the opinion of those who decry what has been done, that the McCanns should have been doing over the last five years? Digging up private gardens? Bulldozing the beach? Digging up the municipal drainage system? Please explain what you believe should have been the physical priorities of the McCanns.
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Asleep?
So the Police were not interviewing him and getting the facts?
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Whatever reason you ascribe it to, we can agree that the reason Gerry was not out 'searching through the night' was because he was asleep
the fact is that you can believe what you want and come to any conclusion you want..and so can any other poster on here...the fact is that what you believe makes absolutely no difference and is of no significance..the case is now open and we may get some real answers
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Whatever reason you ascribe it to, we can agree that the reason Gerry was not out 'searching through the night' was because he was asleep
Yes, a perfectly normal activity. Even soldiers in battle are encouraged to take short breaks for sleep you know. The two hours of sleep which has been (though I haven't seen you or anyone else provide any definitive evidence) suggested is not abnormal as you seem to think. It is necessary even when under the greatest possible stress.
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I wonder if the Police actually suggested they get a couple of hours sleep?
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Asleep?
So the Police were not interviewing him and getting the facts?
A good point. Why did the POLICE pack up and not bother searching? Could they have also possibly needed to sleep?
And of course there is Mr. Amaral who made a couple of calls after returning home and then promptly went to sleep pondering how lucky he was with his daughter at home. Did he stir himself and coordinate a physical search?
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do I need to point out that doctors have years of training and coping in stressful situations and grabbing a little rest when they can to enable them to carry on
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do I need to point out that doctors have years of training and coping in stressful situations and grabbing a little rest when they can to enable them to carry on
Yes. That is true. Better than most they know the need for short breaks for mental and physical recuperation.
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I still can't believe that the McCanns think it is in any way reasonable to spend the night making phone calls/texting/deleting texts/whatever and then only popping out to search once they deem it light enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have been out there tearing up bushes with my bare hands looking for a missing daughter of mine. Banging on doors, looking around, you know... "searching" I think it's called?
You're not alone here, C.Edwards.
Nobody doubts McCanns were in absolute distress and nobody feels but compassionate whatever happened. It is moving to see Mrs McCann's mute sobbing when her husband makes his first appeal, I can imagine how Mr McCann impressed Mr O'Brien who had never seen a father orphan of his child, and how he disturbed the first GNR officers with his head on the ground and his arms raised in a supplication. Anyone who has lived the horror of a child's death by accident or suicide will know what I mean.
But nothing of that is searching.
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Mr. Amaral who made a couple of calls after returning home and then promptly went to sleep pondering how lucky he was with his daughter at home. Did he stir himself and coordinate a physical search?
Defaming again ! Do you by chance do something else sometimes ?
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and when were the first interviews with the police?
First Interviews: 04 May 2007
11h15 Gerry McCann
11h30 Jane Tanner
11h30 Matthew Oldfield
14h20 Kate Healy (McCann)
14h45 David Payne
19h20 Fiona Payne
19h20 Rachael Mampilly (Oldfield)
20h45 Dianne Webster
21h45 Russell O'Brien
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From Kates Book
On my insistence Gerry and Dave went out again to look for some sign of Madeleine.
There's no statement of Mr McCann confirming this.
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I still can't believe that the McCanns think it is in any way reasonable to spend the night making phone calls/texting/deleting texts/whatever and then only popping out to search once they deem it light enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have been out there tearing up bushes with my bare hands looking for a missing daughter of mine. Banging on doors, looking around, you know... "searching" I think it's called?
You're not alone here, C.Edwards.
Nobody doubts McCanns were in absolute distress and nobody feels but compassionate whatever happened. It is moving to see Mrs McCann's mute sobbing when her husband makes his first appeal, I can imagine how Mr McCann impressed Mr O'Brien who had never seen a father orphan of his child, and how he disturbed the first GNR officers with his head on the ground and his arms raised in a supplication. Anyone who has lived the horror of a child's death by accident or suicide will know what I mean.
But nothing of that is searching.
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There's no statement of Mr McCann confirming this.
Would that be because the PJ forgot to ask him?
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Two questions.
Firstly, in light of this forum rule, "ensure that any material posted is accompanied by the relevant links" could I ask Angelo to provide links to support his claim in the OP that investigating officers always say 'No.'?
Secondly, with respect to the matter of the McCanns' searching. What other methods of searching is Angelo proposing that the McCanns should have undertaken besides hiring Private Investigators and maintaining a very high profile for their daughter in order that millions of people keep a look out for her? Is there some suggestion that they should have perhaps done as Birch did illegally and break into properties to dig up gardens? Should they have spent the last six years searching bins in the neighbourhood of PDL? Should they have personally learned to drive bulldozers and spent their lives digging over the sand and rocks of PDL beach? Just what are they supposed to have been doing in the eyes of Angelo I wonder?
Read the Reports Gilet its all there. Every single PJ officer and every journalist said the same thing and that is that neither the book nor the documentary hindered the search.
As far as searching is concerned I refer you to the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks. Getting off ones ass and doing some real searching appears to be a novelty for the McCanns.
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A little reminder, the title of this thread is >>> "So who or what did hinder the search for Madeleine??"
Since there a number of off topic posts I will endeavour to return them under a new heading.
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Read the Reports Gilet its all there. Every single PJ officer and every journalist said the same thing and that is that neither the book nor the documentary hindered the search.
As far as searching is concerned I refer you to the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks. Getting off ones ass and doing some real searching appears to be a novelty for the McCanns.
If you think that amounts to giving links as the forum rules require you really are not very au fait with the meaning of the word links are you?
Unless you bother to provide links rather than merely your word that something happened then perhaps we are entitled to presume you cannot do so?
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Read the Reports Gilet its all there. Every single PJ officer and every journalist said the same thing and that is that neither the book nor the documentary hindered the search.
As far as searching is concerned I refer you to the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks. Getting off ones ass and doing some real searching appears to be a novelty for the McCanns.
you make fantastic point in support of the McCanns..bless you///while the Needhans and Fitzpatricks have got off their asses and searched the Mccanns have managed to do far more than them to help find their daughter. they have, through their lobbying managed to organise a 5 million pound police investigation...well done the McCanns
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you make fantastic point in support of the McCanns..bless you///while the Needhans and Fitzpatricks have got off their asses and searched the Mccanns have managed to do far more than them to help find their daughter. they have, through their lobbying managed to organise a 5 million pound police investigation...well done the McCanns
Lobbying after doing little the previous two years.
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If you think that amounts to giving links as the forum rules require you really are not very au fait with the meaning of the word links are you?
Unless you bother to provide links rather than merely your word that something happened then perhaps we are entitled to presume you cannot do so?
Where is your 'link' to the independent witness who, you claimed, said with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at 10pm on the night Madeleine disappeared
In fact, forget the link ... just give the name of the staff member who said he saw Gerry in the tapas bar at that precise moment, and quote that part of his witness statement that leaves it in no doubt
Don't demand of others that which you do not do yourself
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If you think that amounts to giving links as the forum rules require you really are not very au fait with the meaning of the word links are you?
Unless you bother to provide links rather than merely your word that something happened then perhaps we are entitled to presume you cannot do so?
I have told you to read the reports. I am sure you are quite capable of finding them. 8((()*/
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you make fantastic point in support of the McCanns..bless you///while the Needhans and Fitzpatricks have got off their asses and searched the Mccanns have managed to do far more than them to help find their daughter. they have, through their lobbying managed to organise a 5 million pound police investigation...well done the McCanns
A £5 million flop you mean?? Taxpayers money down the drain on a witch hunt. This farce gets worse by the day.
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Where is your 'link' to the independent witness who, you claimed, said with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at 10pm on the night Madeleine disappeared
In fact, forget the link ... just give the name of the staff member who said he saw Gerry in the tapas bar at that precise moment, and quote that part of his witness statement that leaves it in no doubt
Don't demand of others that which you do not do yourself
all this claming this, claiming that, what a load of rubbish.Witnessess will not have looked at their watches and could be 10 minutes out..it doesn't matter anyway..Gerry isnt involved
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A little reminder, the title of this thread is >>> "So who or what did hinder the search for Madeleine??"
Since there a number of off topic posts I will endeavour to return them under a new heading.
Thanks for bringing us back on topic
Here's something else that we can now say was most definately a hindrance to the investigation
... the McCanns insistance on relentlessly pushing the 'abductor' as seen by Jane Tanner
We even had it tied with Gail Cooper's 'creepy man' who, Kate McCann assured us, was not 'that dissimilar' to Jane's 'abductor'
They had everyone looking for the wrong bloke for six years ! ... how's that for a hindrance ?
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A £5 million flop you mean?? Taxpayers money down the drain on a witch hunt. This farce gets worse by the day.
no I don't mean that..it isn't over yet...we have 2 billion pounds a year stolen by health tourists...foreigners dare I say..I don't see you complaining about Julian Assange..
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Thanks for bringing us back on topic
Here's something else that we can now say was most definately a hindrance to the investigation
... the McCanns insistance on relentlessly pushing the 'abductor' as seen by Jane Tanner
We even had it tied with Gail Cooper's 'creepy man' who, Kate McCann assured us, was not 'that dissimilar' to Jane's 'abductor'
They had everyone looking for the wrong bloke for six years ! ... how's that for a hindrance ?
well if the police had done their job properly there would have been no need
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Would that be because the PJ forgot to ask him?
I don't think so. In September the PJ wondered why he hadn't searched for his child, and he said it wasn't true, he had gone to the main reception to see if they had called the police. Nobody corroborates he did. He didn't ask to call the police either (the police hadn't yet been called). Instead he went back to the flat and asked Mr Oldfield to go back to the main reception and to insist about the police.
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no I don't mean that..it isn't over yet...we have 2 billion pounds a year stolen by health tourists...foreigners dare I say..I don't see you complaining about Julian Assange..
and 70 billion on tax avoidance! I going to get a telling off for going off topic now, I blame you davel!
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well if the police had done their job properly there would have been no need
Most importantly, if the McCanns had done their job properly as parents, there would be no need for any of this.
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Yes, Gerry slept ... Kate confirms he did in her book
You can offer all the rationale you want Eleanor ... I find it unbelievable that any father in those circumstances would be ABLE to sleep
Gerry was able
Yes, but you don't doubt he was a loving father, do you ?
Think of his state, told by Mr O'Brien. Something impossible to describe had happened. That's my reading of their obvious intense suffering and yet the lack of searching up to dismaying of exhaustion.
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Where is your 'link' to the independent witness who, you claimed, said with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at 10pm on the night Madeleine disappeared
In fact, forget the link ... just give the name of the staff member who said he saw Gerry in the tapas bar at that precise moment, and quote that part of his witness statement that leaves it in no doubt
Don't demand of others that which you do not do yourself
The name was in one of the posts I made actually. Also I gave the full quotation and the folio page number from the files.
I don't demand of others what I don't do. I provided full references to the material I posted.
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I don't think so. In September the PJ wondered why he hadn't searched for his child, and he said it wasn't true, he had gone to the main reception to see if they had called the police. Nobody corroborates he did. He didn't ask to call the police either (the police hadn't yet been called). Instead he went back to the flat and asked Mr Oldfield to go back to the main reception and to insist about the police.
Links or folio numbers please.
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Most importantly, if the McCanns had done their job properly as parents, there would be no need for any of this.
There's a good point, well made. Who started all this? Did the police kick the McCanns out of their apartment and insist they left it unlocked to assist anyone that may want to abduct a child? Did they insist they did this night after night? Did they force the McCanns, under duress, to leave their children in a dangerous situation? (as evidenced by one of them going missing, can't get much more dangerous than that, eh?)
Some people, naming no obvious names, made a judgement call to do all those things voluntarily. Had they exercised what most people would agree is even a modicum of common sense then they wouldn't have been in this position, would they...? Regardless of how Madeleine came to be missing, one way or another it was all, 100%, caused by the initial decisions made by the McCanns.
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The name was in one of the posts I made actually. Also I gave the full quotation and the folio page number from the files.
I don't demand of others what I don't do. I provided full references to the material I posted.
It's not true gilet
... what you posted is not true
There IS no independent witness who said, with certainty, that he saw Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
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There's a good point, well made. Who started all this? Did the police kick the McCanns out of their apartment and insist they left it unlocked to assist anyone that may want to abduct a child? Did they insist they did this night after night? Did they force the McCanns, under duress, to leave their children in a dangerous situation? (as evidenced by one of them going missing, can't get much more dangerous than that, eh?)
Some people, naming no obvious names, made a judgement call to do all those things voluntarily. Had they exercised what most people would agree is even a modicum of common sense then they wouldn't have been in this position, would they...? Regardless of how Madeleine came to be missing, one way or another it was all, 100%, caused by the initial decisions made by the McCanns.
Same old tired mantra.
Why do you excuse the behaviour of the abductor? Don't you ever consider that person to be partly to blame at least?
It is simply wrong to state that it is 100% the fault of the McCanns and by pretending that is the case it would strongly appear that you are condoning the abduction of a little child.
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It's not true gilet
... what you posted is not true
There IS no independent witness who said, with certainty, that he saw Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
Wrong.
Folio 122
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The name was in one of the posts I made actually. Also I gave the full quotation and the folio page number from the files.
I don't demand of others what I don't do. I provided full references to the material I posted.
You sure about that? I've been through your recent post history as much as I could bear and all I've found is:
Not one of the so-called mistakes you have highlighted is a mistake.
Every one is fact.
Martin Smith waited after seeing the BBC News report on 9th September a whole eleven days before reporting his suspicion by telephone to the LP on 20th September as recorded by the Holmes Indexer at Braunstone Police Station. (Folio 2873)
A worker at the Tapas Restaurant places Gerry McCann at that scene at precisely the time of the disappearance. (Folio 122)
And I repeat there is only one statement from the Smith family which states that Gerry McCann may have been the man they sighted. If there are others please give links to them so that we can read where that is mentioned as a possibility. If you cannot provide such links to these statements then we will be forced to the conclusion that it is not in fact me making mistakes here.
Is the member of staff a "Mr A Worker" then?
"precisely" is also the word you used. Feel free to put me right here.
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I have been following the libel trial with interest and the common question which arises time after time is did the book or the documentary damage the search for Madeleine? The answer from the investigating officers comes back each and every time as an overwhelming "no".
So who did hinder, obstruct, curtail, circumvent or damage the search for Madeleine. I am very sure that if Madeleine is still alive she herself will want to know this some day.
What about if it were those that are claiming the book had any interference?!
They were the ones that contributed to the archival of the process for not cooperating. They were the ones that had the chance to avoid that archival within the first 20 days after the publication of the AG Decision, as assistants to the process.
Even since July 2008 when the investigation was formally filed until last week they had the chance to request for that reopening, simply by offering to present further information.
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Links or folio numbers please.
I'll provide them, but please do first provide the name of the waiter and the complete quote of his statement as Icabodcrane gently asked you.
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Wrong.
Folio 122
What is this folio 122 nonsense? Stop being coy and post the bloke's name.
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Wrong.
Folio 122
Folio schmolio ... what is the witness's NAME ? ... and what did he say about seeing Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at precisely 10pm ?
It's not true
You have posted something that is not true
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They were the ones that contributed to the archival of the process for not cooperating. They were the ones that had the chance to avoid that archival within the first 20 days after the publication of the AG Decision, as assistants to the process.
It seems they were badly advised. Short term expedients instead of global analysis of the situation and anticipation of the future. I shouldn't say it because they can't reply, but I really suspect Mr Abreu, Mrs Duarte and Mr Alves behaved too much like lawyers and not enough like caring human beings.
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Wrong.
Folio 122
That number doesn't apply to witnesses statements: «121 to 125—External diligences carried with OC staff followed by copies of passports»
Correction, it does, but doesn't display what was insinuated in the above post.
Index may be consulted at http://www.mccannfiles.com/id198.html
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Here's one to get you started gilet, totally independent witness:
Arlindo Epifanio Goncalves Fernandes Peleja
Date/Time: 2007/05/08 21H10
Executive Chef
Portuguese
Concerning the issue of the process said;...
. He records that the past Thursday, 3rd of May, he left the central kitchen with the objective of going to the Tapas restaurant in order to determine that everything was functioning smoothly;
. When he arrived there, by vehicle, at around 21:10, he remembers that next to the Tapas reception, he saw a vehicle, dark blue in colour, with Portuguese license plates. Although he cannot be definite, he believes it was a Fiesta or Focus. The deponent furthers that is was not a small car, and for this reason it could very well have been a Focus and not a Fiesta. He tells that he does not remember any sticker indicating that it was a rental car. Inside the vehicle he saw no one.
. After parking his vehicle, he entered through the reception of that restaurant, in the left hand direction, toward the side opposite the pool, and passed by the esplanade. He remembers having seen in that esplanade, one table, occupied by three couples, without children, and all of them adults. On the esplanade, he encountered no one else.
. A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;
All done and dusted well before ten. Your go.
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Page 122
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_122.jpg)
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Page 122
image snipped out
Nice work Luz. No doubt you'll be accused of linking the wrong version of the files now. Gilet is completely unable to back up his claims. I have no doubt there's be more bluster coming though.
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I have given full answers to your questions which you spam on every thread on this forum.
The fact that you either do not understand those answers or deliberately choose not to accept them is your problem not mine.
Now do you have anything to say that is on the topic of this thread or are you going to continue disrupting it?
I am not disrupting anything.
The 'search' for Madeleine has continued since the beginning, either by police forces or by private investigators, so how has the 'search' been 'hindered' exactly ?
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This is all the anti McCanns now have.
They cannot accept that Amaral in his blundering thesis which did not tally with the full evidence as outlined in the archival report hindered the search for Madeleine.
They have too much invested in their viewpoint. Too much time spent seizing on minutiae and endlessly twisting and discussing it as evidence of guilt. "Read the files" they shriek, and what do those files say? No evidence against the Mccanns. Two new investigations, both say the Mccanns played no part in any crime and they are still here, entrenched, holding on to old myths and spouting them as fact, still demanding "evidence". The facts and reality of the situation will never make a difference to them.
Edited to refelct removed post.
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I am not disrupting anything.
The 'search' for Madeleine has continued since the beginning, either by police forces or by private investigators, so how has the 'search' been 'hindered' exactly ?
Exactly by the very nasty attempts to persuade the public whose assistance is needed by PIs and by Police that there is no point in looking for her because she is dead.
And who has led those attempts though he has not a shred of evidence to prove his claims? Why that would be Senhor Amaral!
When a child is missing and when there is hope that she may be found alive there is a greater impetus to assist than when there appears less point because finding a dead child is not so urgent.
If you cannot understand the fact that when a person is persuaded that a missing child is dead it makes a big difference to the way in which that person will assist in the search then I truly am sorry for you.
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Please stay on topic. Evidence of abduction is another issue.
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Please stay on topic. Evidence of abduction is another issue.
Thank you.
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Please stay on topic. Evidence of abduction is another issue.
Thank You
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Exactly by the very nasty attempts to persuade the public whose assistance is needed by PIs and by Police that there is no point in looking for her because she is dead.
And who has led those attempts though he has not a shred of evidence to prove his claims? Why that would be Senhor Amaral!
When a child is missing and when there is hope that she may be found alive there is a greater impetus to assist than when there appears less point because finding a dead child is not so urgent.
If you cannot understand the fact that when a person is persuaded that a missing child is dead it makes a big difference to the way in which that person will assist in the search then I truly am sorry for you.
Crimewatch's role is to give police a platform to say here's what we know, please help us, but on October 14th it was perfectly obvious they still know nothing. That will have done nothing to encourage the public to believe Madeleine is still findable. The programme showed nothing but the usual irrelevant background story.
If, as you claim, they have facts they didn't tell us they failed Madeleine in that programme. Crimewatch did not give the public a single fact to go on.
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Crimewatch's role is to give police a platform to say here's what we know, please help us, but on October 14th it was perfectly obvious they still know nothing. That will have done nothing to encourage the public to believe Madeleine is still findable. The programme showed nothing but the usual irrelevant background story.
If, as you claim, they have facts they didn't tell us they failed Madeleine in that programme. Crimewatch did not give the public a single fact to go on.
Not true...they may have things we do not know
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Not true...they may have things we do not know
But if they want the public to think Madeleine did not sadly suffer the same fate as very nearly every other young child who disappears, a programme being shown six and a half years later needs to give viewers more than just the usual irrelevant background story of the holiday.
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But if they want the public to think Madeleine did not sadly suffer the same fate as very nearly every other young child who disappears, a programme being shown six and a half years later needs to give viewers more than just the usual irrelevant background story of the holiday.
who says so
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who says so
I say so. I was hoping Crimewatch would show us something new, but it didn't. All Crimewatch gave us was details of people 'acting suspiciously' in the days before the disappearance. You get claims like that in every single case, and huge numbers of them. It's a notoriously difficult, and unreliable, area of police work. And that's all Crimewatch had.
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Exactly by the very nasty attempts to persuade the public whose assistance is needed by PIs and by Police that there is no point in looking for her because she is dead.
And who has led those attempts though he has not a shred of evidence to prove his claims? Why that would be Senhor Amaral!
When a child is missing and when there is hope that she may be found alive there is a greater impetus to assist than when there appears less point because finding a dead child is not so urgent.
If you cannot understand the fact that when a person is persuaded that a missing child is dead it makes a big difference to the way in which that person will assist in the search then I truly am sorry for you.
Has it occurred to you that people can read the files/information available on the case and come to different conclusions to yours because there was no evidence of abduction , namely that nothing has hindered the search, and the PJ investigated the parents , ?
I wonder if you have searched for Madeleine yourself, or do you just type on the keyboard ?
I accept other people have a different viewpoint to mine, but your posts indicate a one dimensional aspect and no more.
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Wrong.
Folio 122
Morning, I have the PJ files open in another window, could you please supply the name of the employee?
Thanks in advance!
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Crimewatch's role is to give police a platform to say here's what we know, please help us, but on October 14th it was perfectly obvious they still know nothing. That will have done nothing to encourage the public to believe Madeleine is still findable. The programme showed nothing but the usual irrelevant background story.
If, as you claim, they have facts they didn't tell us they failed Madeleine in that programme. Crimewatch did not give the public a single fact to go on.
I am sorry that is your opinion. Indeed I am quite saddened. But I am very glad it is not the opinion of all those who clearly saw quite a different programme to you and who responded so generously to it.
Crimewatch was appealing for specific assistance. They made that very clear. And they did it very effectively. That has resulted in truly massive coverage and an unusually large response.
However this is totally off topic.
The topic is the hindering of the search by Amaral.
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Morning, I have the PJ files open in another window, could you please supply the name of the employee?
Thanks in advance!
No I am not in the habit of naming witnesses on demand. Match the folio page to the quote I made and you will find the name.
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But if they want the public to think Madeleine did not sadly suffer the same fate as very nearly every other young child who disappears, a programme being shown six and a half years later needs to give viewers more than just the usual irrelevant background story of the holiday.
Clearly you missed it but the programme gave a great deal more than the background story. That is why it receieved such a massive response.
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Morning, I have the PJ files open in another window, could you please supply the name of the employee?
Thanks in advance!
There is no employee who said, with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at precisely 10pm
We all make mistakes occasionally and Gilet has been given ample opportunity to retract the incorrect information he/she posted ... or to back it up
He/she had repeatedly chosen not to
I feel it is within forum rules, therefore, to make it clear to members that Gilet posted a lie
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There is no employee who said, with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at precisely 10pm
We all make mistakes occasionally and Gilet has been given ample opportunity to retract the incorrect information he/she posted ... or to back it up
He/she had repeatedly chosen not to
I feel it is within forum rules, therefore, to make it clear to members that Gilet posted a lie
Yes and it is not the only one, with all due respect to Benice.
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Yes and it is not the only one, with all due respect to Benice.
Your post shows no respect whatsoever.
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I say so. I was hoping Crimewatch would show us something new, but it didn't. All Crimewatch gave us was details of people 'acting suspiciously' in the days before the disappearance. You get claims like that in every single case, and huge numbers of them. It's a notoriously difficult, and unreliable, area of police work. And that's all Crimewatch had.
E-fits mainly, that why more than 2 thousands people called. That says more on Crimewatchers than on "acting suspiciously'' individuals.
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Your post shows no respect whatsoever.
No respect for rumour, myth and other collective belief propagators.
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No I am not in the habit of naming witnesses on demand. Match the folio page to the quote I made and you will find the name.
Ok, here's a copy and paste of page 122
JERONIMO TOMAS RODRIGUES SALCEDAS (Phone No "91 768 ####) - bartender:
- He saw the missing Madeleine, for the last time, yesterday at 16.45h next to the restaurant;
- He did not notice if from the group of British citizens (in number 8 or 9) that yesterday dined in restaurant (which was partly made up of the parents of the missing [child]), someone left [absented themself] during such dinner;
- He saw a walkie talkie on top of the table of the group, [like] those that are used to monitor noises of children, from a distance;
- He did not see a person of blonde "rastas", while he was working last night. ----------
I must have the wrong page/witness as he makes no comment about Gerry at all!
I'm not asking you to go searching through hundreds of files because I can't be bothered to, I'm asking you to point me in the right direction so I can do it myself.
Please may I have the name or the correct page number?
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There is no employee who said, with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at precisely 10pm
We all make mistakes occasionally and Gilet has been given ample opportunity to retract the incorrect information he/she posted ... or to back it up
He/she had repeatedly chosen not to
I feel it is within forum rules, therefore, to make it clear to members that Gilet posted a lie
Ok icad...you have set precedent..if you say Gilet posted a lie then you are calling him a liar
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Ok icad...you have set precedent..if you say Gilet posted a lie then you are calling him a liar
Yes, I am
Note that Gilet has not objected
All he/she has to do to defend the accusation is to post the name of the staff member who said, with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at precisely 10.00pm
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Ok, here's a copy and paste of page 122
JERONIMO TOMAS RODRIGUES SALCEDAS (Phone No "91 768 ####) - bartender:
- He saw the missing Madeleine, for the last time, yesterday at 16.45h next to the restaurant;
- He did not notice if from the group of British citizens (in number 8 or 9) that yesterday dined in restaurant (which was partly made up of the parents of the missing [child]), someone left [absented themself] during such dinner;
- He saw a walkie talkie on top of the table of the group, [like] those that are used to monitor noises of children, from a distance;
- He did not see a person of blonde "rastas", while he was working last night. ----------
I must have the wrong page/witness as he makes no comment about Gerry at all!
I'm not asking you to go searching through hundreds of files because I can't be bothered to, I'm asking you to point me in the right direction so I can do it myself.
Please may I have the name or the correct page number?
Sorry to quote my own post, but I see gilet has been muted. I wonder if either davel or Benice who have supported gilet's claims could help me find the statement.
As you'll see from my quoted post, I'm not being lazy, I found gilet's page, it just didn't contain the information that he claimed it did. I'm assuming that I was looking at the wrong page so if I could have the correct page number or witness name I'd be very grateful.
TIA!
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There is no employee who said, with certainty, that Gerry McCann was in the tapas bar at precisely 10pm
We all make mistakes occasionally and Gilet has been given ample opportunity to retract the incorrect information he/she posted ... or to back it up
He/she had repeatedly chosen not to
I feel it is within forum rules, therefore, to make it clear to members that Gilet posted a lie
Literally no body commented on Gerry's absence from the bar at the point of Kate's alert.
If he was absent, even just visiting the gents, that omission is remarkable.
You'd have expected a full commentary in the files, of efforts to try to find him, where he was when found and who found him.
The absence of any such commentary can mean only one thing: Gerry was in the Tapas Restaurant at the time of Kate's alert, just as Joao Carlos says he was in his final report.