UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Kazcutt on October 25, 2013, 10:19:00 PM
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Do you think the massive reaction from us to madeleine mccanns story didnt help her fate ? Was the original mirror forum and 3arguidos the passing of information so fast through internet damaging for her .
I feel guilty sometimes that this can not be helping but then i remember her parents begging for us to stick with them .
Id hate to think amaral was influenced by US thats all of us both sides . He did at some point send info on 3as ....................
I hope not
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No, we are not to blame. All that we have done is to refute the scurrilous lies and deliberate misinformation. The appalling campaign against The McCanns and ultimately Madeleine would have gone on unchecked without our involvement.
Our efforts have helped to keep the search alive and to keep Madeleine in high profile. And Kate and Gerry know what we do.
Apart from that, The British Government and The Portuguese Government know how appalled so many of us are.
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I agree Eleanor, the damage to the search has been done by those pretending that they know with certainty that Madeleine is dead and then proceeding to persuade others of that when there is not a shred of evidence which proves that to be the case.
Such people are quite beyond my understanding. Why they have hearts of stone and cannot even hope that a missing child might be returned to her parents I will never, ever understand.
And the kind of person who plays at being Zeferrelli in order to spam the internet with videos which claim a child is dead when there is no proof of it is the lowest of the low in my opinion.
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There are people who still work on 'recruiting' new believers that Madeleine is dead.
This would potentially mean that if someone even sees Madeleine alive they wouldn't report it due to the pushed belief that she is dead.
Luckily now the two teams of professionals are working on the case and there is no centralised old fashion style of policing which Mr Amaral pursued.
Everyone can have a theory but in real professional world behind 'the theory' there should be hard facts supported by modern technology proofs, luckily again, available in professional environments in our modern times.
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I am not even sure that The British Government would have done anything about this farce if we hadn't kept up a relentless stink against Internet Abuse. And The Portuguese Judiciary almost certainly would not have done.
And then no one would ever have know what a horror story Goncalo Amaral is.
And it's no good telling me that we abuse him. He started this. We merely retaliate. And glory be, it seems to have worked. Everything is now back on track where it ought to have been in May 2007. Although I sometimes wonder from where I got the strength to carry on for six and a half years.
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There are people who still work on 'recruiting' new believers that Madeleine is dead.
This would potentially mean that if someone even sees Madeleine alive they wouldn't report it due to the pushed belief that she is dead.
Luckily now the two teams of professionals are working on the case and there is no centralised old fashion style of policing which Mr Amaral pursued.Everyone can have a theory but in real professional world behind 'the theory' there should be hard facts supported by modern technology proofs, luckily again, available in professional environments in our modern times.
Indeed. Also I doubt if modern day policing would entertain the idea of anyone's 'dream' being a credible reason for a significant change in the whole direction of a case to take place.
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Indeed. Also I doubt if modern day policing would entertain the idea of anyone's 'dream' being a credible reason for a significant change in the whole direction of a case to take place.
Thank you! That is what I was trying to say.. They must have a real physical evidence and a clearer picture now to be able to reopen the investigation.
The technology has improved so much in 6 years and the policing methods as well.
Also, maybe if this crime has happened in some small English town it would cause a similar way of dealing with it.. kind of the way shown in black and white movies in Sherlock Holmes times.. the way the Amarals team worked on it.
There is lot that can be done actually, computer forensics, mobile phone forensics, bank transactions.. all of this still can be checked and analysed better than it was the case 6 years ago..
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You could argue that if it hadn't been for the [ censored word] and Amaral in particular then Madeleine's disappearance would never have received the massive worldwide exposure it has done.
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You could argue that if it hadn't been for the [ censored word] and Amaral in particular then Madeleine's disappearance would never have received the massive worldwide exposure it has done.
Quite a perverse argument considering that one of the great bugbears of the [ censored word] is the amount of exposure the McCanns have garnered for themselves.
And rather missing the point that exposure of the wrong kind as in proclaiming that a child is dead is not in any way conducive to the aim if at all possible of finding their daughter alive. It rather puts people of even bothering.
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do you think we are to blame ....
No....defiantly not ....so many have suffered.....blamed for one thing or another ...like it is everyones fault but theirs
IMO .....the only ones to blame is k & g mcc........who left their children alone in the first place...
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do you think we are to blame ....
No....defiantly not ....so many have suffered.....blamed for one thing or another ...like it is everyones fault but theirs
IMO .....the only ones to blame is k & g mcc........who left their children alone in the first place...
Yet another poster who for some bizarre reason lays no blame whatsoever with the abductor.
Why do so many anti McCanns seem to excuse the vile crime of child abduction so glibly?
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Yet another poster who for some bizarre reason lays no blame whatsoever with the abductor.
Why do so many anti McCanns seem to excuse the vile crime of child abduction so glibly?
because........ IMO ,,,,,,,there was no abductor ...OK
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because........ IMO ,,,,,,,there was no abductor ...OK
Ah so now you are far cleverer than all those stupid professional policemen in London and Oporto who really don't have a clue as to what is going on and are just wasting millions of pounds chasing their own tails. I see.
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because........ IMO ,,,,,,,there was no abductor ...OK
But what if your opinion is wrong?
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I don't think "we" (as in forums or forum posters) have had any influence one way or another over the years.
The main thing "we" have done - is argue in a very tiny corner of the internet with those who don't have the same opinion.
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Of course there are always the exception that proves the rule - the person who stepped out from forums and into the High Court.
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I don't think "we" (as in forums or forum posters) have had any influence one way or another over the years.
The main thing "we" have done - is argue in a very tiny corner of the internet with those who don't have the same opinion.
Actually some people might think that but I can tell you that is not the case. Cyberspace and the real world are not as far apart as you might think.
We have information and requests coming in all the time from behind the scenes. Only last night a person of interest contacted us and we were glad to help him.
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Ah so now you are far cleverer than all those stupid professional policemen in London and Oporto who really don't have a clue as to what is going on and are just wasting millions of pounds chasing their own tails. I see.
Now did i say that .....i don't have to explain myself to you...... but you neither know what the out come of this is going to be do you...end of
by the way i was giving my opinion ...to the title of the thread ...
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I agree re the parents not murdering her but the hatred they have had to endure is sad all they want is Madeleine alive & home.
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I agree re the parents not murdering her but the hatred they have had to endure is sad all they want is Madeleine alive & home.
I can't say I have ever seen anyone claim Madeleine was murdered by anyone close to her. What has been alleged over the years however is that she succumbed to a tragic accident of some sort and that her parents and possibly others conspired to invent an abduction story. This is certainly the thesis that Dr Amaral promotes and one which the Attorney general mentions in his final archiving report.
To return to the opening question..."Do you think we are to blame?"
No we aren't. That blame ultimately lies at the feet of her parents, her guardians, her protectors. They failed the task and according them some monster took advantage of that failing. That monster, if he exists, is most certainly to blame for abducting her but her parents are to blame for allowing it to happen in the first instance.
Unfortunately, two wrongs don't make a right and Madeleine has most probably paid the ultimate penalty because of it all.
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Yet another poster who for some bizarre reason lays no blame whatsoever with the abductor.
Why do so many anti McCanns seem to excuse the vile crime of child abduction so glibly?
Yet again you say the 'abduction' as if fact.
it isn't.
Please don't.
As to paedophiles/abductors, s..m, pure s..m.
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I can't say I have ever seen anyone claim Madeleine was murdered by anyone close to her. What has been alleged over the years however is that she succumbed to a tragic accident of some sort and that her parents and possibly others conspired to invent an abduction story. This is certainly the thesis that Dr Amaral promotes and one which the Attorney general mentions in his final archiving report.
To return to the opening question..."Do you think we are to blame?"
No we aren't. That blame ultimately lies at the feet of her parents, her guardians, her protectors. They failed the task and according them some monster took advantage of that failing. That monster, if he exists, is most certainly to blame for abducting her but her parents are to blame for allowing it to happen in the first instance.
Unfortunately, two wrongs don't make a right and Madeleine has most probably paid the ultimate penalty because of it all.
8@??)( well said john maddie may well have been abducted but she wouldnt have been if her parents had been looking after her like they should have been and not wining aand dining with friends
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8@??)( well said john maddie may well have been abducted but she wouldnt have been if her parents had been looking after her like they should have been and not wining aand dining with friends
would you mind correcting the title to your mrs fern topic to Mrs Fenn
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8@??)( well said john maddie may well have been abducted but she wouldnt have been if her parents had been looking after her like they should have been and not wining aand dining with friends
Oh My. Are we changing our tune, Carly?
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8@??)( well said john maddie may well have been abducted but she wouldnt have been if her parents had been looking after her like they should have been and not wining aand dining with friends
oh my here we go again ..can you not debate a topic on whats new instead of repeating the same old mantra ....its getting sooooo boring now parrot!!
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would you mind correcting the title to your mrs fern topic to Mrs Fenn
Also giving that child the name her parents gave her, the one she insisted on being called.
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8@??)( well said john maddie may well have been abducted but she wouldnt have been if her parents had been looking after her like they should have been and not wining aand dining with friends
Over and over. I think you could safely assume that that fact is known by us all now, Carly. Yes they left her alone. They left her alone and some s..mbag took her. Why not turn a fraction of your spite against whoever it was took her from her bed?
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I can't say I have ever seen anyone claim Madeleine was murdered by anyone close to her. What has been alleged over the years however is that she succumbed to a tragic accident of some sort and that her parents and possibly others conspired to invent an abduction story. This is certainly the thesis that Dr Amaral promotes and one which the Attorney general mentions in his final archiving report.
To return to the opening question..."Do you think we are to blame?"
No we aren't. The blame ultimately lies at the feet of her parents, her guardians, her protectors. They failed the task and some monster most probably took advantage of that failing. The abductor(s) is most certainly to blame for abducting her but her parents are to blame for allowing it to happen in the first place. Unfortunately, two wrongs don't make a right and Madeleine has most probably paid the ultimate penalty because of it.
That's true. If we absolutely have to apportioning blame then I would say:
- The abductor, assuming there was one, was criminally, wilfully culpable
- The McCanns were negligently culpable, leaving their children as they did
- The investigating authorities were incompetently culpable, failing to make any kind of case against anyone, failing to find Maddie dead or alive, and very possible getting distracted with misplaced suspicion and self spiraling conspiracy theories.
But in fact I believe there is little point in casting stones. Blame is emotional vomiting, it serves no other purpose. Haven't the McCann's suffered enough as parents? And blaming the police achieves nothing. The crucial thing is to look forwards and not back and if the police and the McCann's can through their efforts find Maddie alive and well there will be some redemption in that.
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"The McCanns were negligently culpable, leaving their children as they did"
so that means half the world that use babylistening services are negligent and culpable ?
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That's true. If we absolutely have to apportioning blame then I would say:
- The abductor, assuming there was one, was criminally, wilfully culpable
- The McCanns were negligently culpable, leaving their children as they did
- The investigating authorities were incompetently culpable, failing to make any kind of case against anyone, failing to find Maddie dead or alive, and very possible getting distracted with misplaced suspicion and self spiraling conspiracy theories.
But in fact I believe there is little point in casting stones. Blame is emotional vomiting, it serves no other purpose. Haven't the McCann's suffered enough as parents? And blaming the police achieves nothing. The crucial thing is to look forwards and not back and if the police and the McCann's can through their efforts find Maddie alive and well there will be some redemption in that.
Why do "we" need to do anything but hope there is closure and wait for the police to do their job, finally?
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"The McCanns were negligently culpable, leaving their children as they did"
so that means half the world that use babylistening services are negligent and culpable ?
Yes it does follow. I think that if a baby listening service was used and had allowed this to happen, there is a high chance they would have been seen as legally culpable and sued.
But I take the point you are making. The McCann's carried out a risk assessment.
They didn't do it scientifically of course, but under classic risk assessment theory, you compare the consequences of risk failure with the likelihood of occurrence, rating each from 1 to 5. Undertaking that calculation in this case, I think consequences clearly rated a 5 (catastrophic). But likelihood was probably just a 1 or a 2 (very unlikely or unlikely).
I am sure that lots of parents have in the past and probably still do take the same risk. I think they have to accept culpability if the worst happens. But I also think that, if the worst does happen, they should be treated sympathetically in the absence of any other aggravating circumstances.
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Yes it does follow. I think that if a baby listening service was used and had allowed this to happen, there is a high chance they would have been seen as legally culpable and sued.
But I take the point you are making. The McCann's carried out a risk assessment.
They didn't do it scientifically of course, but under classic risk assessment theory, you compare the consequences of risk failure with the likelihood of occurrence, rating each from 1 to 5. Undertaking that calculation in this case, I think consequences clearly rated a 5 (catastrophic). But likelihood was probably just a 1 or a 2 (very unlikely or unlikely).
I am sure that lots of parents have in the past and probably still do take the same risk. I think they have to accept culpability if the worst happens. But I also think that, if the worst does happen, they should be treated sympathetically in the absence of any other aggravating circumstances.
a risk at all times ..so why provide the service..it should be against the law..i cant believe its still being used...ive never used it myself and never will its too risky like you say ..but no one can really call it negligence or abandonment if its allowed by law..
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a risk at all times ..so why provide the service..it should be against the law..i cant believe its still being used...ive never used it myself and never will its too risky like you say ..but no one can really call it negligence or abandonment if its allowed by law..
Benita, the law is an ass!