UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: carlymichelle on January 05, 2014, 12:11:20 PM
-
UK police believe they know who kidnapped Madeline McCann australian story
UK police say gang of thieves snatched Madeleine McCann in a burglary 'gone wrong'
STAFF WRITERS
news.com.au
January 05, 2014 4:06PM
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/uk-police-say-gang-of-thieves-snatched-madeleine-mccann-in-a-burglary-gone-wrong/story-fni0d7e6-1226795199295
UK police say they know who kidnapped British four-year-old Maddie McCann in Portugal seven years ago, and are angry and frustrated they cannot swoop in and arrest the men.
Three men who were members of a gang of thieves are now prime suspects in Maddie's abduction from a Portuguese beach resort in 2007.
Scotland Yard police officers have identified the men in the enduring mystery of the girl's disappearance.
British detectives have analysed mobile phone records of the men who are believed to be members of a burglary gang preying on tourists in the Algarve beach resort town of Praia da Luz around the time Madeleine vanished.
The police have tracked a high volume of calls between the three men in the hours after Madeleine was reported missing from the holiday apartment rented by her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.
Kate and Gerry McCann outside the hotel in Portugal where their 4-year-old daughter Maddie was abducted in 2007. Picture: AFP...
Kate and Gerry McCann outside the hotel in Portugal where their 4-year-old daughter Maddie was abducted in 2007. Picture: AFP. Source: AFP
They are frustrated with the incompetence of the Portuguese investigation into the case, and with delays in pouncing on the suspects.
The UK police's leading scenario is the thieves broke into the apartment, disturbed the young girl and fled with her in what was a burglary gone wrong, rather than earlier speculation she was targeted by paedophiles or child abductors.
Mr and Mrs McCann, who had been dining with friends at a nearby location returned home to find their daughter had vanished.
Checks into the three men's criminal history and family backgrounds are believed to be made, but UK authorities are hamstrung by the fact they cannot make arrests in a foreign country, and none of the men are British.
Photograph of missing Madeleine McCann taken during the holiday at Praia Da Luz, Portugal, from where she was kidnapped in 20...
Photograph of missing Madeleine McCann taken during the holiday at Praia Da Luz, Portugal, from where she was kidnapped in 2007. Picture: AP. Source: News Limited
Widespread criticism of the bungled Portuguese police investigation into the McCann case includes they gave little weight to the fact the McCann's holiday flat ad been broken into.
Scotland Yard believes the thieves accidentally woke Madeleine up, panicked and decided to take her with them when they fled the premises.
The burglars are now the focus of their inquiries, which has been thwarted by Portuguese authorities refusal to co-operate formally in a joint investigation.
UK detectives are said to be keen to arrest the men for questioning, but have to await diplomatic negotiations between the respective governments for permission to operate within Portugal.
UK police believe they know who kidnapped Madeline McCann, the 4-year-old daughter of Kate and Gerry McCann (above) in 2007. ...
UK police believe they know who kidnapped Madeline McCann, the 4-year-old daughter of Kate and Gerry McCann (above) in 2007. Picture: AFP. Source: AFP
They have also discounted a theory favoured by Portuguese police, that a 40-year-old former employee at the holiday complex where the McCanns stayed was Madeleine's kidnapper.
The man has since died in an accident.
The British detectives who have examined the records of mobile of thousands of people who were in Praia da Luz in May 2007 describe the phone analysis as "compelling".
In another development, Kate and Gerry McCann have been refused permission to give evidence at a defamation trial in Portugal over a book written by a former local police chief about the case.
-
Don't hold your breath.
-
Is this not the same as the Daily Mail ran yesterday?
-
Is this not the same as the Daily Mail ran yesterday?
Yes it is more or less word for word lol....load of rubbish poor poor poor reporting its disgusting.
-
I do wonder about media motivation - is it just money or are they just taking the piss to show how ridiculous it has all become ?
-
Is this not the same as the Daily Mail ran yesterday?
Yes i tried to start a thread on it but it was......supressed
-
Offer one uk paper an exclusive, on condition the paper uses the provided wording.
Clone that one article worldwide.
And Voila! Worldwide coverage, all with the desired wording.
-
Jeez not another thread on this news story,its yesterdays news carly,and is already being discussed on another thread (latest news on madeleine)
-
I do wonder about media motivation - is it just money or are they just taking the piss to show how ridiculous it has all become ?
Good question.
The stories have become worse than a farce and SY look even more ridiculous.
-
Good question.
The stories have become worse than a farce and SY look even more ridiculous.
not as ridiculous as Portugal's key stone cops @)(++(*
-
not as ridiculous as Portugal's key stone cops @)(++(*
dont insult the keystone cops
@)(++(* @)(++(*
-
not as ridiculous as Portugal's key stone cops
They don't pretend to be the world's finest, of course.
-
dont insult the keystone cops
@)(++(* @)(++(*
@)(++(*
-
dont insult the keystone cops
@)(++(* @)(++(*
Actually, the keystone cops would have been more likely to solve the crime than the current crop. 8)--))
and they of course are fictional.
-
Actually, the keystone cops would have been more likely to solve the crime than the current crop. 8)--))
and they of course are fictional.
the current cops wouldn't have to solve anything if the pj had done their jobs properly in the first place,stick in ya pipe stephen25000 ?>)()<
-
the current cops wouldn't have to solve anything if the pj had done their jobs properly in the first place,stick in ya pipe stephen25000 ?>)()<
Stupid comment as per usual.
Pray tell me what evidence is there of abduction ? 8)-)))
-
Stupid comment as per usual.
Pray tell me what evidence is there of abduction ? 8)-)))
a child is missing duh! 8-)(--)
-
the current cops wouldn't have to solve anything if the pj had done their jobs properly in the first place,stick in ya pipe stephen25000 ?>)()<
No cops would have had to have solved anything if the parents had done their jobs properly in the first place
-
a child is missing duh! 8-)(--)
So a missing child is proof of abduction ?
I strongly recommend you don't try joining any police force. 8-)(--)
-
No cops would have had to have solved anything if the parents had done their jobs properly in the first place
ohh get you, still up to the cops to do their job that's what they paid for 8((()*/
-
ohh get you, still up to the cops to do their job that's what they paid for 8((()*/
And up to the parents to do their job - in general, that's what they have children for
-
And up to the parents to do their job - in general, that's what they have children for
less of the crap about the parents we heard it all before, "it happened" now its up to the cops to do their jobs!! 8((()*/
-
And up to the parents to do their job - in general, that's what they have children for
Oh Dear. I must have got that one wrong. I was hoping that they would keep me in comfort. Still hoping, actually. But things are not looking good at the moment.
-
less of the crap about the parents we heard it all before, "it happened" now its up to the cops to do their jobs!! 8((()*/
Less of the rubbish digs at the Portuguese police - we've heard it all before. If "crap" parents did their job, the cops would not need to do so much of theirs in response
-
Oh Dear. I must have got that one wrong. I was hoping that they would keep me in comfort. Still hoping, actually. But things are not looking good at the moment.
Well, with any luck, Eleanor if you did do your job well when they were children, they will keep you in comfort as adults! Sorry things are not looking good at the moment .....
-
Less of the rubbish digs at the Portuguese police - we've heard it all before. If "crap" parents did their job, the cops would not need to do so much of theirs in response
oh I say 8)-)))
-
Well, with any luck, Eleanor if you did do your job well when they were children, they will keep you in comfort as adults! Sorry things are not looking good at the moment .....
[/quote.
Exactamente. All around fifty years old, and can't afford to keep their poor old mother. What a waste of time that was.
-
Here is an example of the sort of phone analysis done by the original 2007 PJ investigation using Met experts
These are 3 mobile phones (two portuguese and one from another euro country) all 3 located in PDL and these calls/txts are all on 3 May 2007, and 9 of them are in the period 1740h and 2216h.
Between mobiles A and B total 6 calls or txts
Between mobiles A and C total 2 calls or txts
Between mobiles B and C total 3 calls or txts
The PJ and Met together did this analysis (of links via PDL masts between 3 mobiles) back in 2007.
As you can see there is nothing to indicate such three-way links are burglars.
-
Here is an example of the sort of phone analysis done by the original 2007 PJ investigation using Met experts
These are 3 mobile phones (two portuguese and one from another euro country) all 3 located in PDL and these calls/txts are all on 3 May 2007, and 9 of them are in the period 1740h and 2216h.
Between mobiles A and B total 6 calls or txts
Between mobiles A and C total 2 calls or txts
Between mobiles B and C total 3 calls or txts
The PJ and Met together did this analysis (of links via PDL masts between 3 mobiles) back in 2007.
As you can see there is nothing to indicate such three-way links are burglars.
That doesn't tell us much unless we know more about the nature of calls made between those phones at other times as well.
-
That doesn't tell us much unless we know more about the nature of calls made between those phones at other times as well.
I think the point is that the nature/content of the calls is not available, only the times and numbers involved. SY won't be able to get any more.
-
I think the point is that the nature/content of the calls is not available, only the times and numbers involved. SY won't be able to get any more.
Depending upon the date range of information available, it can still tell the authorities rather a lot.
-
Not much beyond proving when and where a certain phone was active. It can't prove who was carrying that phone at the time, or what they said.
-
Not much beyond proving when and where a certain phone was active. It can't prove who was carrying that phone at the time, or what they said.
You need to think outside the box a bit, old chum.
-
You need to think outside the box a bit, old chum.
enlighten me.
-
Victoria, I'm still waiting to be let out of this 'ere box that you think I'm in. 8)><(
Surely you don't want me to remain in ignorance ?
-
Victoria, I'm still waiting to be let out of this 'ere box that you think I'm in. 8)><(
Surely you don't want me to remain in ignorance ?
It's quite simple, really. If there is enough data available to establish a pattern of behaviour over the preceding period, then it will be possible to tell whether activity over the period in question (ie the abduction window) was anything out of the ordinary. If a picture can be built up over several days (ideally longer) of how or if these phones contacted each other, then that can be compared to contact that occurred during the abduction window.
Then, if it is believed that these phones were contacting each other during the abduction window in a way that wasn't consistent with a pre-established pattern, their pattern of contact post abduction window could also be looked at, including where the phones were in the following days. Even if the owners of the phones weren't known, knowing where they were at particular times, especially if there were three of them and they were in unusual locations, may be enough to start tracing the owners or users of the phones.
It's a painstaking, long-winded process, but potentially can lead to a breakthrough. The biggest difficulty though will be in getting the information from the various providers, let alone the analysis and generation of leads that then follows.
-
Thank you.
The drawback is that mobile phone companies might not have that information now. The PJ requested some information for various days around the 3rd, but this may not be enough to provide the patterns you are talking about.
-
It's quite simple, really. If there is enough data available to establish a pattern of behaviour over the preceding period, then it will be possible to tell whether activity over the period in question (ie the abduction window) was anything out of the ordinary. If a picture can be built up over several days (ideally longer) of how or if these phones contacted each other, then that can be compared to contact that occurred during the abduction window.
Then, if it is believed that these phones were contacting each other during the abduction window in a way that wasn't consistent with a pre-established pattern, their pattern of contact post abduction window could also be looked at, including where the phones were in the following days. Even if the owners of the phones weren't known, knowing where they were at particular times, especially if there were three of them and they were in unusual locations, may be enough to start tracing the owners or users of the phones.
It's a painstaking, long-winded process, but potentially can lead to a breakthrough. The biggest difficulty though will be in getting the information from the various providers, let alone the analysis and generation of leads that then follows.
Hmmm. Given that mobiles can probably by located to about 50 meters in a area with coverage. I am not sure what this analysis could do apart from identify numbers and connections in the area. It doesn't indicate what they were doing.
-
Hmmm. Given that mobiles can probably by located to about 50 meters in a area with coverage. I am not sure what this analysis could do apart from identify numbers and connections in the area. It doesn't indicate what they were doing.
Then again, you're not thinking hard enough.
-
Then again, you're not thinking hard enough.
I think you are making an assumption that mobile phone use has definite pattern which IMO is incorrect.
-
Does anyone know how long phone companies would have stored their traffic data for back in 2007 ?
I have to say that I have little expectation that this will lead anywhere useful.
-
Does anyone know how long phone companies would have stored their traffic data for back in 2007 ?
I have to say that I have little expectation that this will lead anywhere useful.
I think they would store it indefinitely in this case.. until the case get solved!
Nobody is stupid to delete this data!
-
I think they would store it indefinitely in this case.. until the case get solved!
Nobody is stupid to delete this data!
No, you misunderstand. I don't mean the data that the police have, I meant the traffic for the whole area that the phone company would have had at the time, that the police may not have collected.