UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: AnneGuedes on January 15, 2014, 10:11:31 PM
-
Things are said off the record, once they're on the record, it's too late, you can't deny them.
That's what happened to Gonçalo Amaral, he wasn't expecting the journalist to repeat that the British were manipulated by the McCanns.
-
Things are said off the record, once they're on the record, it's too late, you can't deny them.
That's what happened to Gonçalo Amaral, he wasn't expecting the journalist to repeat that the British were manipulated by the McCanns.
It's not that controversial a comment on its own. Doesn't he think there were other factors involved also?
-
It's not that controversial a comment on its own. Doesn't he think there were other factors involved also?
It was controversial, not published in a kind of tabloid like the Correio da Manha, but in a serious newspaper.
The question is, was or wasn't the journalist aware ? Was he himself f... up with the saga ?
I'm not sure (I could check this) whether it's the same journalist who wrote, on the 5th, that the McCann story was a badly told story. Portuguese medias (see Panorama) felt that the McCanns were performing for the media.
-
It was controversial, not published in a kind of tabloid like the Correio da Manha, but in a serious newspaper.
The question is, was or wasn't the journalist aware ? Was he himself f... up with the saga ?
I'm not sure (I could check this) whether it's the same journalist who wrote, on the 5th, that the McCann story was a badly told story. Portuguese medias (see Panorama) felt that the McCanns were performing for the media.
I remember it. But doesn't Mr Amaral think the decision may have also had something to do with other factors like witnesses or the direction the case was taking? He thinks the decision was political doesn't he? So the interview may just have been used as a convenient excuse?
-
I remember it. But doesn't Mr Amaral think the decision may have also had something to do with other factors like witnesses or the direction the case was taking? He thinks the decision was political doesn't he? So the interview may just have been used as a convenient excuse?
Had Alipio Ribeiro pointed to him the diplomatic gaffe, they could have rectified it, it wasn't as enormous as that.
Therefore I think that the occasion was there and was seized to have him away. It was very clear from the very beginning that the McCanns would never be sued in Portugal, since nobody thought they had murdered their daughter. There was nothing to gain but problems. Amaral risked to go too far, obsessed by finding what happened to a little girl for whom he cared, without having a global view of the situation. I think MeM had GA in mind in the AG report when he mentioned The Pledge. Requiem for the police novel of Friedrich Dürrenmatt.
-
Had Alipio Ribeiro pointed to him the diplomatic gaffe, they could have rectified it, it wasn't as enormous as that.
Therefore I think that the occasion was there and was seized to have him away. It was very clear from the very beginning that the McCanns would never be sued in Portugal, since nobody thought they had murdered their daughter. There was nothing to gain but problems. Amaral risked to go too far, obsessed by finding what happened to a little girl for whom he cared, without having a global view of the situation. I think MeM had GA in mind in the AG report when he mentioned The Pledge. Requiem for the police novel of Friedrich Dürrenmatt.
8((()*/ That all makes sense to me.
-
Are you ? I think he was used for proxy.
How do you mean Anne?
-
Had Alipio Ribeiro pointed to him the diplomatic gaffe, they could have rectified it, it wasn't as enormous as that.
Therefore I think that the occasion was there and was seized to have him away. It was very clear from the very beginning that the McCanns would never be sued in Portugal, since nobody thought they had murdered their daughter. There was nothing to gain but problems. Amaral risked to go too far, obsessed by finding what happened to a little girl for whom he cared, without having a global view of the situation. I think MeM had GA in mind in the AG report when he mentioned The Pledge. Requiem for the police novel of Friedrich Dürrenmatt.
My impression is different. The diplomatic gaffe criticising an overseas police force that had provided as much support as possible may well have been the last straw. A broader issue, building up to that, is that Ribeiro would no doubt have been aware (or could have worked out) that the team was leaking half-truths like a sieve, all intended to sway public opinion against a family, while in reality the team was wildly out of its depth. For a country in which judicial secrecy is supposed to be respected, and in which the media spotlight was on the competence of the investigating team, a public professional fault could have been an opportunity to halt what may have been felt as an escalating national embarrassment.
Like any human being, I've no doubt that he would have been proud to have found Madeleine, however I feel less convinced than you that he was obsessed by finding out what really happened to her as opposed to pursuing a hypothesis requiring such leaps of logic that, in view of the plethora of alternative "parentswhatdunnit" theories, even his fans don't seem convinced of how it could have been feasible in practice. Trying to shoehorn a seriously flawed understanding of numerous aspects (to put it generously) to fit his hypothesis doesn't come across to me as someone who is truly concerned with discovering the truth.
-
My impression is different. The diplomatic gaffe criticising an overseas police force that had provided as much support as possible may well have been the last straw. A broader issue, building up to that, is that Ribeiro would no doubt have been aware (or could have worked out) that the team was leaking half-truths like a sieve, all intended to sway public opinion against a family, while in reality the team was wildly out of its depth. For a country in which judicial secrecy is supposed to be respected, and in which the media spotlight was on the competence of the investigating team, a public professional fault could have been an opportunity to halt what may have been felt as an escalating national embarrassment.
Like any human being, I've no doubt that he would have been proud to have found Madeleine, however I feel less convinced than you that he was obsessed by finding out what really happened to her as opposed to pursuing a hypothesis requiring such leaps of logic that, in view of the plethora of alternative "parentswhatdunnit" theories, even his fans don't seem convinced of how it could have been feasible in practice. Trying to shoehorn a seriously flawed understanding of numerous aspects (to put it generously) to fit his hypothesis doesn't come across to me as someone who is truly concerned with discovering the truth.
Excellent post Carana - which I completely agree with. IMO Amaral thought that if he could get the public to find them guilty - he was almost home and dry - which IMO is exactly what happened in his previous 'missing child' case. He was hoping for history to repeat itself.
-
Excellent post Carana - which I completely agree with. IMO Amaral thought that if he could get the public to find them guilty - he was almost home and dry - which IMO is exactly what happened in his previous 'missing child' case. He was hoping for history to repeat itself.
That's it, precisely. Trial by public opinion. It worked the first time so why not again.
But surely the information that Scotland Yard are uncovering was also available to The PJ? Including the phone pings around certain burglars, enough to be very noticeable. Right time, right place and lots of them.
But Amaral was far more interested in the phone records of The McCanns and friends. So by pursuing one aspect of The Phones and ignoring the other, this can only been seen as prejudice, and an attempt to push the investigation in the direction of his theories.
Attempting to interfere with evidence in fact.
-
That's it, precisely. Trial by public opinion. It worked the first time so why not again.
But surely the information that Scotland Yard are uncovering was also available to The PJ? Including the phone pings around certain burglars, enough to be very noticeable. Right time, right place and lots of them.
But Amaral was far more interested in the phone records of The McCanns and friends. So by pursuing one aspect of The Phones and ignoring the other, this can only been seen as prejudice, and an attempt to push the investigation in the direction of his theories.
Attempting to interfere with evidence in fact.
Why do you think he never investigated these burglaries?
Is it due to his ego? Due to him thinking he is more clever than others? Why his colleagues all followed him blindly and nobody did the own search? Maybe they never in past investigated the phone data? ( due to PDL and even Portmao being small towns) Why did he not pursue the technology more? ( Maybe the modern policing using technology wasn't his strongest point?) I notice he even did not get the DNA results on the beginning, he mixed up the reference number in his letters.. Maybe this was due to a language barrier? Maybe for number of years he got used to an easy-peasy work style where he pursued things the way his 'police intuition' said.
-
My impression is different. The diplomatic gaffe criticising an overseas police force that had provided as much support as possible may well have been the last straw. A broader issue, building up to that, is that Ribeiro would no doubt have been aware (or could have worked out) that the team was leaking half-truths like a sieve, all intended to sway public opinion against a family, while in reality the team was wildly out of its depth. For a country in which judicial secrecy is supposed to be respected, and in which the media spotlight was on the competence of the investigating team, a public professional fault could have been an opportunity to halt what may have been felt as an escalating national embarrassment.
Like any human being, I've no doubt that he would have been proud to have found Madeleine, however I feel less convinced than you that he was obsessed by finding out what really happened to her as opposed to pursuing a hypothesis requiring such leaps of logic that, in view of the plethora of alternative "parentswhatdunnit" theories, even his fans don't seem convinced of how it could have been feasible in practice. Trying to shoehorn a seriously flawed understanding of numerous aspects (to put it generously) to fit his hypothesis doesn't come across to me as someone who is truly concerned with discovering the truth.
Amazingly expressed, Carana, if I may say.
-
Why do you think he never investigated these burglaries?
Is it due to his ego? Due to him thinking he is more clever than others? Why his colleagues all followed him blindly and nobody did the own search? Maybe they never in past investigated the phone data? ( due to PDL and even Portmao being small towns) Why did he not pursue the technology more? ( Maybe the modern policing using technology wasn't his strongest point?) I notice he even did not get the DNA results on the beginning, he mixed up the reference number in his letters.. Maybe this was due to a language barrier? Maybe for number of years he got used to an easy-peasy work style where he pursued things the way his 'police intuition' said.
I think he simply wanted it to be a case of The Mother Done It. Plus he needed help after being made an Arguido in the beating of Leonor Cipriano.
His attitude to women in general is not good. And his understanding of modern policing techniques is abysmal. But that doesn't alter the fact that he pursued The McCann phone records while ignoring any others. This is prejudice.
Many a case has been solved by Mobile Phones being where they shouldn't be, and it was always likely that the abductors would communicate by mobile phone, if there was more than one of them, which I have always believed to be the case.
-
New thread.
Was Dr Gonçalo Amaral the author of his own demise after making the off-the-record comment about the British being manipulated by the McCanns? In reality, was this the opportunity his bosses were waiting for?
-
New thread.
Was Dr Gonçalo Amaral the author of his own demise after making the off-the-record comment about the British being manipulated by the McCanns? In reality, was this the opportunity his bosses were waiting for?
What on earth could have made Amaral think his remarks wouldn't be repeated by The Media? Every other thing was.
The only thing different about about this was that a name was put it.
Personally, I doubt that it was serious enough in itsself, so there must have been more to his removal.
-
Why do you think he never investigated these burglaries?
Is it due to his ego? Due to him thinking he is more clever than others? Why his colleagues all followed him blindly and nobody did the own search? Maybe they never in past investigated the phone data? ( due to PDL and even Portmao being small towns) Why did he not pursue the technology more? ( Maybe the modern policing using technology wasn't his strongest point?) I notice he even did not get the DNA results on the beginning, he mixed up the reference number in his letters.. Maybe this was due to a language barrier? Maybe for number of years he got used to an easy-peasy work style where he pursued things the way his 'police intuition' said.
He didn't investigate the burglaries because he didn't think they were relevant. Burglars do not tend to steal children. Not that there is any evidence that Madeleine was stolen by a stranger in the first place.
-
He didn't investigate the burglaries because he didn't think they were relevant. Burglars do not tend to steal children. Not that there is any evidence that Madeleine was stolen by a stranger in the first place.
You simply do not know what burglars will steal if the price is right. But the cluster of phone calls was the most important thing. It now appears that these were between known burglars. It isn't difficult to work out.
-
You simply do not know what burglars will steal if the price is right. But the cluster of phone calls was the most important thing. It now appears that these were between known burglars. It isn't difficult to work out.
Police have never confirmed this - its all down to a certain spokesperson and the media.
-
Amazingly expressed, Carana, if I may say.
@)(++(*
-
Police have never confirmed this - its all down to a certain spokesperson and the media.
Absolutely and in spite of having been requested to support that claim, the believers chose to ignore it and go on spreading the myth.
-
New thread.
Was Dr Gonçalo Amaral the author of his own demise after making the off-the-record comment about the British being manipulated by the McCanns? In reality, was this the opportunity his bosses were waiting for?
All were thinking the same, John. Gonçalo said it aloud, he shouldn't have. They took advantage of it. Without that opportunity, they wouldn't have allowed certain initiatives, like a reconstruction of the Smiths crossing Smithman. Look at what Rebelo did ! Apart of reviewing what existed, nothing. About the Smiths, he sent by mistake the rogatory letter to the UK and then that was it. The rog was lost in the sea for ever.
-
All were thinking the same, John. Gonçalo said it aloud, he shouldn't have. They took advantage of it. Without that opportunity, they wouldn't have allowed certain initiatives, like a reconstruction of the Smiths crossing Smithman. Look at what Rebelo did ! Apart of reviewing what existed, nothing. About the Smiths, he sent by mistake the rogatory letter to the UK and then that was it. The rog was lost in the sea for ever.
- Members of the Smith family went over in May 2007 to do a reconstruction of their sighting.
- I haven't found any ILoRs sent by Amaral in the files, have you?
- Rebelo was trying to pick up the pieces. I'd agree that it was more of a review than really taking the whole investigation back to the beginning, but time was running out in terms of PT legal deadlines.
-
Excellent post Carana - which I completely agree with. IMO Amaral thought that if he could get the public to find them guilty - he was almost home and dry - which IMO is exactly what happened in his previous 'missing child' case. He was hoping for history to repeat itself.
Thanks. I do find that his thinking and the media leaks resemble a drop-down menu of the Cipriano case.
-
- Rebelo was trying to pick up the pieces. I'd agree that it was more of a review than really taking the whole investigation back to the beginning, but time was running out in terms of PT legal deadlines.
You must be kidding, Carana. Rebelo coordinated the investigation during 9 months, GA for 5.
The deadline was due to Murat, a failure.
-
Thanks. I do find that his thinking and the media leaks resemble a drop-down menu of the Cipriano case.
@)(++(*
-
Thanks. I do find that his thinking and the media leaks resemble a drop-down menu of the Cipriano case.
Gosh, you lot are so glib about talking about children who are missing/murdered/
...'drop down menu - how depressing all this is......hideous, ugly...
-
To respond to the title of the thread......I think there are people in the case of Madeleine who have been the author of their demise........
...but they are not Amaral.......
Let us just look at the McCanns and their friends........what they said/how they behaved that night.........
-
I think he simply wanted it to be a case of The Mother Done It. Plus he needed help after being made an Arguido in the beating of Leonor Cipriano.
His attitude to women in general is not good. And his understanding of modern policing techniques is abysmal. But that doesn't alter the fact that he pursued The McCann phone records while ignoring any others. This is prejudice.
Many a case has been solved by Mobile Phones being where they shouldn't be, and it was always likely that the abductors would communicate by mobile phone, if there was more than one of them, which I have always believed to be the case.
The work on mobile phones in May 2007 was done by experts provided to the PJ by the MET.
-
Was Dr Amaral architect of his own downfall? If by downfall we mean his removal from the case in October 2007 then yes most likely. That he was removed because of a largely inconsequential political gaffe then I feel that is unlikely. I would suggest that Gordon Brown and Milliband D. had more pressing matters on their plates at the time having not that long taken office but not so the Portuguese police. The Portuguese police were faced with solving what had become the most publicised child disappearance since the Lindbergh case. It may reasonably be adduced from available information that there were already storm clouds brewing over Dr Amaral’s actions in the Cipriano case. Under those circumstances as Dr Amaral’s bosses boss what would you do?. With the worlds press parked on my doorstep I would want to look beyond reproach and deprive an opposition brief of the opportunity to play the "bent copper card" so I would have insisted he was shuffled off sideways just in case.
-
The DCCB's report was recieved by the PJ on Friday 28th Sept 2007.
There were several rather interesting things in that report.
Mr Amaral was removed from the case on Tuesday 2nd Oct 2007.
-
Was Dr Amaral architect of his own downfall? If by downfall we mean his removal from the case in October 2007 then yes most likely. That he was removed because of a largely inconsequential political gaffe then I feel that is unlikely. I would suggest that Gordon Brown and Milliband D. had more pressing matters on their plates at the time having not that long taken office but not so the Portuguese police. The Portuguese police were faced with solving what had become the most publicised child disappearance since the Lindbergh case. It may reasonably be adduced from available information that there were already storm clouds brewing over Dr Amaral’s actions in the Cipriano case. Under those circumstances as Dr Amaral’s bosses boss what would you do?. With the worlds press parked on my doorstep I would want to look beyond reproach and deprive an opposition brief of the opportunity to play the "bent copper card" so I would have insisted he was shuffled off sideways just in case.
Amaral certainly blames political interference for his removal from the investigation. I would agree that the storm clouds were gathering over the Cipriano case even though he got two convictions. It could very well have been a case of damage limitation to remove him just in case Kate ended up with a back eye (accidentally of course!)
-
IMO he would have been taken off the case anyway with or without the phone interview comment about UK interference.
Remember what happened in the days leading up to his removal.
Report by DCCB.
Plans to bring Irish witnesses back.
Maybe it was just a coincidence he was removed just before he could investigate those items?
-
Amaral certainly blames political interference for his removal from the investigation. I would agree that the storm clouds were gathering over the Cipriano case even though he got two convictions. It could very well have been a case of damage limitation to remove him just in case Kate ended up with a back eye (accidentally of course!)
Well here we go again. He wasnt even attending the mother when she was supposed to have been beaten....
I think he criticised the british and he was removed for diplomatic reasons .........
-
Well here we go again. He wasnt even attending the mother when she was supposed to have been beaten....
I think he criticised the british and he was removed for diplomatic reasons .........
So if Amaral wasn't around when Leonor Cipriano was in the police station being beaten, then how was he in a position to say that it didn't happen, and that she fell down the stairs?
-
So if Amaral wasn't around when Leonor Cipriano was in the police station being beaten, then how was he in a position to say that it didn't happen, and that she fell down the stairs?
He didnt he trusted his officers that said nothing happened, that is why he ended up in trouble....the moral of the story is DONT TRUST your officers......he got his hand burnt. HE should have never done that he made an error of judgement like a lot of people in office do all the time.
-
He didnt he trusted his officers that said nothing happened, that is why he ended up in trouble....the moral of the story is DONT TRUST your officers......he got his hand burnt. HE should have never done that he made an error of judgement like a lot of people in office do all the time.
He signed a statement under oath. He committed Perjury. Who told him nothing happened? He knows who they are.
Honour among thieves, is it?
-
So if Amaral wasn't around when Leonor Cipriano was in the police station being beaten, then how was he in a position to say that it didn't happen, and that she fell down the stairs?
Absolutely right Eleanor. Well observed 8@??)(
Amaral was head honcho. He would have sent for the "Heavy mob" [the anti terrorist section] from Lisbon. Of course he knew what was going on.
And allegedly he personally "tortured" Leandro to give a false witness statement.
-
Absolutely right Eleanor. Well observed 8@??)(
Amaral was head honcho. He would have sent for the "Heavy mob" [the anti terrorist section] from Lisbon. Of course he knew what was going on.
And allegedly he personally "tortured" Leandro to give a false witness statement.
Many a thing you have to do to find a missing child. 8(0(*
-
Many a thing you have to do to find a missing child. 8(0(*
Shock, Horror. I can't believe you said that. Leandro Silva wasn't ever even arrested, let alone charged. Just put in hospital for two days.
Still, as you seem to believe, anything is worth a go.
-
Shock, Horror. I can't believe you said that. Leandro Silva wasn't ever even arrested, let alone charged. Just put in hospital for two days.
Still, as you seem to believe, anything is worth a go.
How far would you go Eleanor if your child was abducted and there was a chance some Muppet knew where she was?
-
How far would you go Eleanor if your child was abducted and there was a chance some Muppet knew where she was?
I am not a violent person, and I would not be allowed anywhere near a suspect anyway.
But surely you aren't suggesting that beating up any old suspect or possible witness is justified?
These children are never the children of Policemen investigating the case, so what would be their excuse?
-
I am not a violent person, and I would not be allowed anywhere near a suspect anyway.
But surely you aren't suggesting that beating up any old suspect or possible witness is justified?
These children are never the children of Policemen investigating the case, so what would be their excuse?
I'm with Eleanor. Violence is never justified. You can't just beat the crap out of a suspect in the hope that they'll confess.
That's a general comment, not about any case in particular.
-
How far would you go Eleanor if your child was abducted and there was a chance some Muppet knew where she was?
once you sanction violence against suspects you no longer have a justice system you have an injustice system
-
I'm with Eleanor. Violence is never justified. You can't just beat the crap out of a suspect in the hope that they'll confess.
That's a general comment, not about any case in particular.
All you can ever hope to get from a torture victim is what you want to hear. It can never be trusted. So you have to wonder about the motives of people who do this.
No Case in particular.
-
Absolutely right Eleanor. Well observed 8@??)(
Amaral was head honcho. He would have sent for the "Heavy mob" [the anti terrorist section] from Lisbon. Of course he knew what was going on.
And allegedly he personally "tortured" Leandro to give a false witness statement.
Is that your get out clause to avoid libel, by use of the word 'allegedly' ?
So you can't object if other people use the same term on possible actions of the Mccanns.
Can you ?
-
All you can ever hope to get from a torture victim is what you want to hear. It can never be trusted. So you have to wonder about the motives of people who do this.
No Case in particular.
Exactly. They tell the suspect what to say and then torture them until they say it. Whether it's the truth or not is immaterial. Case solved and without having to do any irksome policework - and it makes the crime detection figures look good too. Obscene 'criminals in uniform' - whichever Police Force they infest. IMO.
-
Is that your get out clause to avoid libel, by use of the word 'allegedly' ?
So you can't object if other people use the same term on possible actions of the Mccanns.
Can you ?
Amaral has been charged with this offence. The McCanns have never been charged with anything.
-
Amaral has been charged with this offence. The McCanns have never been charged with anything.
Has he bee charged directly with torture himself ?
-
Has he bee charged directly with torture himself ?
On this occasion, Yes. He is an arguido and awaiting trial. Someone tried to get it thrown out, but it has been reinstated.
And, No, I am not going to crawl through the blogosphere looking for a link. If you don't like it then report me. I don't make up lies for fun. There is no purpose in that.
-
On this occasion, Yes. He is an arguido and awaiting trial. Someone tried to get it thrown out, but it has been reinstated.
And, No, I am not going to crawl through the blogosphere looking for a link. If you don't like it then report me. I don't make up lies for fun. There is no purpose in that.
Without a link it is therefore irrelevant.
A 'trial' need I remind you, does not mean guilt.
It is your and some other mccann supporters hatred/loathing of Amaral that fuels your comments, as does your support of your cousin.
-
On this occasion, Yes. He is an arguido and awaiting trial. Someone tried to get it thrown out, but it has been reinstated.
And, No, I am not going to crawl through the blogosphere looking for a link. If you don't like it then report me. I don't make up lies for fun. There is no purpose in that.
Quote
http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/mp-acusa-exinspector-da-pj-goncalo-amaral-de-tortura-a-leandro-silva-1389690
MP accuses former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral torture Leandro Silva
The Public Ministry (MP) accused former Inspector of Judicial Police Gonçalo Amaral assault Leandro Silva, companion Leonor Cipriano, convicted of murder and concealment of a body of her daughter Joana Cipriano, in 2004, in the Algarve.
According to documents from the MP, that the agency Lusa had access, Gonçalo Amaral is accused of a crime of torture in co-authorship. The indictment states that on 13 October 2004 at the premises of the Judicial Police (PJ) in Portimao, the former inspector grabbed the neck of Leandro Silva and struck him two blows in the abdomen and two slaps in the face while asking you to indicate where the child was (Joan). As a direct result of the attacks, according to the MP, Leandro suffered several injuries, including "the rib cage injury" that kept him from work for five days. In May, the Court of Faro Gonçalo Amaral sentenced to a year in prison on probation for making false allegations in the case of attacks on Leonor Cipriano.
Was established as a fact that Leonor Cipriano was assaulted by members of the PJ Judicial unidentified fell on the stairs and not, as had been hypothesized. However, the court failed to determine which were the perpetrators of the attacks. This case dates back to 2004 and is related to the so-called "Joana case", which refers to the disappearance, on 12 September of the same year, a girl eight years the village of Figueira, Portimão. Accusations prosecutors against five inspectors and former inspectors Judicial emerged following the interrogation PJ in Faro in 2004, when Leonor has appeared with lesions on the face and body in the Establishment Odemira Prison, where he was in custody. Joana's mother and uncle João Cipriano are condemned by the Supreme Court to 16 years in prison each, for the crimes of murder and concealment of a body of the child.
End quote
-
Quote
http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/mp-acusa-exinspector-da-pj-goncalo-amaral-de-tortura-a-leandro-silva-1389690
MP accuses former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral torture Leandro Silva
The Public Ministry (MP) accused former Inspector of Judicial Police Gonçalo Amaral assault Leandro Silva, companion Leonor Cipriano, convicted of murder and concealment of a body of her daughter Joana Cipriano, in 2004, in the Algarve.
According to documents from the MP, that the agency Lusa had access, Gonçalo Amaral is accused of a crime of torture in co-authorship. The indictment states that on 13 October 2004 at the premises of the Judicial Police (PJ) in Portimao, the former inspector grabbed the neck of Leandro Silva and struck him two blows in the abdomen and two slaps in the face while asking you to indicate where the child was (Joan). As a direct result of the attacks, according to the MP, Leandro suffered several injuries, including "the rib cage injury" that kept him from work for five days. In May, the Court of Faro Gonçalo Amaral sentenced to a year in prison on probation for making false allegations in the case of attacks on Leonor Cipriano.
Was established as a fact that Leonor Cipriano was assaulted by members of the PJ Judicial unidentified fell on the stairs and not, as had been hypothesized. However, the court failed to determine which were the perpetrators of the attacks. This case dates back to 2004 and is related to the so-called "Joana case", which refers to the disappearance, on 12 September of the same year, a girl eight years the village of Figueira, Portimão. Accusations prosecutors against five inspectors and former inspectors Judicial emerged following the interrogation PJ in Faro in 2004, when Leonor has appeared with lesions on the face and body in the Establishment Odemira Prison, where he was in custody. Joana's mother and uncle João Cipriano are condemned by the Supreme Court to 16 years in prison each, for the crimes of murder and concealment of a body of the child.
End quote
i.e. an allegation which has not proceeded any further.
So why is that ?
Meanwhile we are dealing with, in the case of the Cipriano's with two convicted criminals serving sentences, and who have lied.
-
Without a link it is therefore irrelevant.
A 'trial' need I remind you, does not mean guilt.
It is your and some other mccann supporters hatred/loathing of Amaral that fuels your comments, as does your support of your cousin.
I do not hate or loath Goncalo Amaral. But I do despise him.
I am related to Clarence Mitchell merely by virtue of the name Mitchell. All Mitchells are related.
-
Thank you, Benice.
What does "Indicted" mean, I wonder?
-
i.e. an allegation which has not proceeded any further.
So why is that ?
How would I know? Although it seems taking years to actually get cases into court is not unknown in Portugal.
-
Thank you, Benice.
What does "Indicted" mean, I wonder?
Not sure - I'm no legal eagle. I thought 'indictment' meant 'the charge'
-
Not sure - I'm no legal eagle. I thought 'indictment' meant 'the charge'
Indicted does indeed mean Charged. However, as you say, this could take forever. If we ever get to hear about it at all.
-
It is a supreme irony of this case that those who loathe/despise/hate Amaral, always support the two parents who willfully and selfishly placed their eating and drinking over their children's welfare.
You could not make that up.
-
It is a supreme irony of this case that those who loathe/despise/hate Amaral, always support the two parents who willfully and selfishly placed their eating and drinking over their children's welfare.
You could not make that up.
You really don't get it, do you. Or do you?
-
So why is that ?
That's where it all started. This is why Metodo3's contract was renewed in March 2008.
No âmbito do seu trabalho com a agência Espanhola de detectives Método 3, agência contratada pelos pais da criança também raptada Madeleine McCann, o Advogado Marcos Aragão Correia, interessado pelas notáveis similitudes entre ambos os desaparecimentos, visita Leonor Cipriano, sendo que esta se queixa de João Grade dos Santos, afirmando que o mesmo sempre a ordenara para se manter calada.
-
You really don't get it, do you. Or do you?
"It"? >@@(*&)
-
You really don't get it, do you. Or do you?
No, I get it.
You clearly support parents whose actions placed all three of their children in danger, and led to the 'disappearance' of MADELEINE.
-
No, I get it.
You clearly support parents whose actions placed all three of their children in danger, and led to the 'disappearance' of MADELEINE.
Yes, I do. I support The McCanns whole heartedly.
-
Yes, I do. I support The McCanns whole heartedly.
Therefore you support what they did.
Enough said.
-
Oh dear, oh dear. It is abundantly clear to me that Amaral was removed from the case due to British interference. He heading in a direction that the McCircus Brigade did not want anyone to head in.
He could smell the red herrings from a thousand paces, and so could the rest of the team.
There is one child I feel very sorry for. Madeliene. Very sorry indeed.
And now I find myself looking at quotes from the book cover of Kate's book Madeleine (prompted by the thread title 'author of own demise')
"My reason for writing (the book) is simple: to give an account of the truth'.
(Notice: she did not write: the reason is to obtain justice for Madeleine'.
'What follows is an intensely personal account, and I make no apology for that.'
Kate and Gerry like to get other people to apologise to them rather than the other way round. In my opinion, it is they who should be apologizing.
'Nothing is more important to us than finding our little girl.' This sentence is tacked on at the end and, as with so many things that Kate McCann says, is a curious use of words.
The use of the word 'nothing' in the context of 'finding our little girl' is rather unfortunate. Starting the sentence with a negative gives it a strange double meaning. What is more important than finding Madeleine? Nothing.
It appears to me, at least, that there are other principal players in the McCircus who are likely to be the authors of their demise.
Sometimes, when you are in a hole, it is best to throw the spade away.
-
Poor Old Amaral. Who would want to be the messenger in this right royal McMess? The messenger gets shot, remember?
-
Poor Old Amaral. Who would want to be the messenger in this right royal McMess? The messenger gets shot, remember?
The same Aragao Correia who wrote the passage I posted above, explaining how Metodo 3 sent him to defend Joana's parents, writes this a bit further (in a long letter to the International Committe against torture) :
Existe uma evidente preocupação por parte das forças extraterrestres moralmente superiores com a maldade que tem imperado entre a população terrestre. E que, na sequência, os governos terrestres tenham sido interditos, por essas mesmas forças, de voltar à Lua.
There is an obvious concern, among the morally superior extra-terrestrial forces, about the evil that overwhelmed the terrestrial population. Following this, the terrestrial governments were prohibited, by those same forces, to go back to the moon.
-
The only plan Amaral had was nailing The McCanns. He talked about it incessantly for several years.
Utter rubbish.
He tried with with others to solve the mystery of Madeleine's 'disappearance'.
-
Utter rubbish.
He tried with with others to solve the mystery of Madeleine's 'disappearance'.
It seems the McCanns have not the right to be guilty.
-
It seems the McCanns have not the right to be guilty.
Certainly not. Unless you can prove otherwise.
-
very sadly not the truth he decided the parents did it????? never followed any other line of enquiry this is fact please don't come back and tell me he did because that is not true. Very tragic for Madeleine.I feel little sorry for him as he has caused major probs. for himself and The McCanns. We all know so do the McCanns and have said on occasions they only wish they had not left their children very foolish.