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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: pegasus on January 30, 2014, 09:09:18 PM
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_4/o_apenso_4_Vol_2_p287.jpg
This interesting handwritten note says that on 9th May 2007 two officers found, on the floor at the back of the parents bedroom, an elasticated hairband.
Please can any Portuguese speaker identify the last word on the 3rd line? Just before the closing bracket. Something like "zircines"?
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_4/o_apenso_4_Vol_2_p287.jpg
This interesting handwritten note says that on 9th May 2007 two officers found, on the floor at the back of the parents bedroom, an elasticated hairband.
Please can any Portuguese speaker identify the last word on the 3rd line? Just before the closing bracket. Something like "zircines"?
whilst waiting for a chicken scrawl translation could you reply to my post here thanks, check back tomorrow, have to run now
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3251.msg124743#msg124743
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It may look like chicken scrawl but IMO the finding of an elasticated hair band in the adult bedroom is important.
The word "chao" if correct indicates that the hairband was found on the floor.
The word "traseira" if correct indicates it was found at the back of the room.
IMO "back" means the south end of the room.
So why was it not found until 9th May? Maybe it was not clearly visible.
For example - just one possibility - maybe the elasticated hairband was under the single bed closest to the adult bedroom door-window?
Current investigators would need to ask the 2 officers from Aljezur who found the hairband.
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_4/o_apenso_4_Vol_2_p287.jpg
Re the elasticated hairband found on 9th May 2007.
Because of the possibility this might hypothetically have belonged to the victim IMO it is important to decipher this handwritten note.
Re the possible presence of the words "chão" and "traseira"
Do those words (if correct) mean that the elasticated hairband was INSIDE on the floor at the back of the south bedroom?
Or that it was OUTSIDE on the ground to the back of the south bedroom?
Needs a native speaker to transcribe the portuguese handwriting word by word?
SY and PJ Porto can easily check the exact location by contacting officer SB (Aljezur station 2007), and also by checking whether the item is still stored in archives and if so whether or not it matches the one worn.
(Corrected)
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_4/o_apenso_4_Vol_2_p287.jpg
Dia 09 Maio de 2007, circa des 0600, Satchela
Barroco de Posto de Aljizur entcontran nos traseiros do
quarto des pais da Maddie ( local que ditto encontrava ditto / zircines )
un elastico para e cabelo, abandamento/perdido no chão.
El elastica foi recolhido e ??? ??????. ????? informando.
Please can a native speaker improve this transcription by confirming whether the portuguese words and grammer are correct and by filling in the blank words.
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Yes it's interesting that it was found at the location where I think she exited the apartment. Fell off as she was being carried out is a possibility. Was that the pink hair band that is seen in her last photo?
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/02/13/mccann276.jpg)
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It may look like chicken scrawl but IMO the finding of an elasticated hair band in the adult bedroom is important.
The word "chao" if correct indicates that the hairband was found on the floor.
The word "traseira" if correct indicates it was found at the back of the room.
IMO "back" means the south end of the room.
So why was it not found until 9th May? Maybe it was not clearly visible.
For example - just one possibility - maybe the elasticated hairband was under the single bed closest to the adult bedroom door-window?
Current investigators would need to ask the 2 officers from Aljezur who found the hairband.
I have read a page that mentions the hairband found in the parents bedroom but cant locate it right now....and its not page 287 of vol II
Do you know the page it was referred to, apart from this handwritten note, also why is this important anyway?
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Outros Apensos IV; vol 2.
Pages 285 - 287
Guide
Complainant : PJ
Arguido: Robert Murat and others
NUIPC: 201/07.0 Galgs, Section: 4th Brigade. Inspector Joao Carlos
The undersigned officer remits the following articles to the PJ:
Portimao 14 December 2007
To be Deposited:
1. An envelope containing one elastic band made of synthetic material, used to tie hair.
2. An envelope containing one plastic bag from C.M in Lagos and one woven bag containing a stone.
3. An envelope containing a green children’s jacket with the label “Saccor”, size 4 and a child’s vest, with the label Palomino, size 98 with a floral pattern.
4. An envelope containing a pink and orangey brown blanket.
5. An envelope containing a pair of “Chico” children’s sports shoes.
6. A plastic bag from the “Alisuper” supermarket containing various items of clothing, namely a checked shirt, two pairs of trousers and three empty and torn bin bags.
7. An envelope containing one pair of blue and grey children’s socks.
8. A plastic bag containing baby toys.
9. An envelope containing six buccal swabs with samples, supposedly blood (Rua 25 de Abril nº 14, P da L).
10. An envelope containing one blue and red Clarkes sports shoe.
11. An envelope containing a pink child’s sock.
12. An envelope containing a cotton corset, edged with a floral border.
13. An envelope containing a red and white piece of child’s clothing.
Page 287
Handwritten note referring to item 1
On 9th May 2007 at 06.00 a police officer from Aljezur found (at the back of Maddie’s parents bedroom) an elastic hair band abandoned/dropped on the floor.
(Can’t make out the sentence that follows).
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9. An envelope containing six buccal swabs with samples, supposedly blood (Rua 25 de Abril nº 14, P da L).
Anyone know anymore about this? Smithman last seen on this street.
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I don't understand the significance of this, but as a matter of interest, when was this rubber hairband first mentioned by Kate - before or after it was found ?
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Depends where it was found. They didn't know about it. This was found on 9 May by police. They moved into 4G on the 4 May.
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Thanks pathfinder, got the page now though I still dont see the relevance of anyone finding a hairband on the floor or anywhere else on any day
8()-000(
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Thanks pathfinder, got the page now though I still dont see the relevance of anyone finding a hairband on the floor or anywhere else on any day
8()-000(
'Hairdresser Suspects"
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Potentially important because the missing person was wearing an elasticated hairband on 3rd May.
What if SY have missed this hard to read handwritten portuguese note?
Hope SY/PJPorto retrieve the hairband out of the archives to obtain colour - what if it is pink?
And ask officer B of Aljezur for exact location. South bedroom? Garden below it?
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'Hairdresser Suspects"
PMSL!
stop it!
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Potentially important because the missing person was wearing an elasticated hairband on 3rd May.
What if SY have missed this hard to read handwritten portuguese note?
Hope SY/PJPorto retrieve the hairband out of the archives to obtain colour.
And ask officer B of Aljezur for exact location. South bedroom? Garden below it?
pegasus, you are very cryptic and not the spit it out kind of person
So what? If a hairband of Madeleines was found? In a place she lived for a week?What can this mean?
Sorry if Im being slow or thick here!
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pegasus, you are very cryptic and not the spit it out kind of person
So what? If a hairband of Madeleines was found? In a place she lived for a week?What can this mean?
Sorry if Im being slow or thick here!
If it is the same hairband as worn on 3rd May (might not be but easy for PJ Porto to check) and if officer B confirms it was on ground outside the south side of apartment then it would possibly indicate exit of missing person via one of the south doors.
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If it is the same hairband (might not be) and if officer B confirms it was on ground outside the south side of apartment then it would possibly indicate exit of missing person via one of the south doors.
Oh I see but does it mean hairband fell off via an abduction? Or fell off any other time
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It could be a clue on how she left the apartment if she was wearing it that day. How did she lose it? Where it was found seems to connect with scent alerts outside the parents bedroom window. I believe Madeleine left 5A that way. The hair band found location may connect with that hypothesis and she lost it whilst being moved through that bedroom window/door.
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It could be a clue on how she left the apartment if she was wearing it that day. How did she lose it? Where it was found seems to connect with scent alerts outside the parents bedroom window. I believe Madeleine left 5A that way. The hair band found location may connect with that hypothesis and she lost it whilst being moved through that bedroom window/door.
Possible only by a stretch
Sorry
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If it is the same hairband as worn on 3rd May (might not be but easy for PJ Porto to check) and if officer B confirms it was on ground outside the south side of apartment then it would possibly indicate exit of missing person via one of the south doors.
Madeleine had a bath before going to sleep.. she would have her hair washed and would not be wearing a hairband
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Oh I see but does it mean hairband fell off via an abduction? Or fell off any other time
I have no idea what the exact solution is. It is simply that in any scenario, if that elasticated hairband found by officer Barruco does (when PJ Porto retrieve it from storage) turn out to be small and pink, then it would be ludicrous for PJ Porto to not ask him the exact location he found it (in the files it is IMO ambiguous whether it was inside on the floor or outside on the ground).
Assuming the hairband was removed at bathtime, one would reasonably expect it to be found for example on top of a chest of drawers that same night, not found on the floor (or ground) five days later.
PS @pathfinder: the south bedroom "window" is a hinged double door IMO.
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I have no idea what the exact solution is. It is simply that in any scenario, if that elasticated hairband found by officer Barruco does (when PJ Porto retrieve it from storage) turn out to be small and pink, then it would be ludicrous for PJ Porto to not ask him the exact location he found it (in the files it is IMO ambiguous whether it was inside on the floor or outside on the ground).
Assuming the hairband was removed at bathtime, one would reasonably expect it to be found for example on top of a chest of drawers that same night, not found on the floor (or ground) five days later.
No sorry, kids hairbands can be discarded anywhere anytime and it means nothing, wasnt a gold necklace or somethng, just a shitty cheap hairband
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No sorry, kids hairbands can be discarded anywhere anytime and it means nothing, wasnt a gold necklace or somethng, just a shitty cheap hairband
So no point in SY asking PJ to do a quick check in the store and see whether it happens to be pink?
It would only take a minute.
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Yes if it was found outside when she is not meant to be out once back at 5.40 then it could be important.
Pegasus, so it's not a sliding door re bedroom like the patio door? It's different?
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So no point in SY asking PJ to do a quick check in the store and see whether it happens to be pink?
It would only take a minute.
What?
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Yes if it was found outside when she is not meant to be out once back at 5.40 then it could be important.
Pegasus, so it's not a sliding door re bedroom like the patio door? It's different?
Pathfinder hairbands have a life of their own lol and when they dont kids chuck and leave them anywhere anytime
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Possible only by a stretch
Sorry
Only by a s-t-r-e-t-c-h --
Oh my
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Only by a s-t-r-e-t-c-h --
Oh my
Like hairbands SH lol
think will leave it here now for the night
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Like hairbands SH lol
think will leave it here now for the night
Good Night, red!
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There seems to be a "bunch" of people making jokes about hairbands.
IMO it is perfectly logical for PJ and their SY assistants to check if that elasticated hairband in PJ storage matches the one in the photo.
Its in the store. And if it is small and pink, they know where to contact officer B to resolve location found.
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This is a new thread.
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Maybe it was Kate's.
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There seems to be a "bunch" of people making jokes about hairbands.
IMO it is perfectly logical for PJ and their SY assistants to check if that elasticated hairband in PJ storage matches the one in the photo.
Its in the store. And if it is small and pink, they know where to contact officer B to resolve location found.
I'm with Red on this one. They do have a life of their own. It would probably be more strange to not find a small pink hair band in a location that a little girl had spent a week in.
They also come in multipacks. Even if it could be found to be small and pink, there's no way of knowing that it was the hair band.
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Maybe it was Kate's.
It would have been interesting if there had been more detail written about this hairband. For example, you can usually tell if they have been used or not.
And there is often hair attached to the ones that have been used.
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I'm with Red on this one. They do have a life of their own. It would probably be more strange to not find a small pink hair band in a location that a little girl had spent a week in.
They also come in multipacks. Even if it could be found to be small and pink, there's no way of knowing that it was the hair band.
If it was found outside the bedroom window then Madeleine was there at some point. If she was seen wearing it that day and at 5.40 she went straight in and had a bath then how did it get there? It would question what actually happened when she returned to 5A if it was the pink one seen in last photo.
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If it was found outside the bedroom window then Madeleine was there at some point. If she was seen wearing it that day and at 5.40 she went straight in and had a bath then how did it get there? It would question what actually happened when she returned to 5A.
I wonder if this will turn out to be the Columboesque jigsaw piece that icabod is looking for, that cements the whole case.
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@)(++(*
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Original handwriting:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_4/o_apenso_4_Vol_2_p287.jpg
My transcription:
Dia 09 Maio de 2007, circa des 0600, Satchela
Barroco de Posto de Aljizur entcontran nos traseiros do
quarto des pais da Maddie ( local que ditto encontrava ditto / zircines )
un elastico para e cabelo, abandamento/perdido no chão.
El elastica foi recolhido e ??? ??????. ????? informando.
Please there any Portuguese speaker who can look at the handwriting, last word on third line, and improve on my incorrect transcription "zircines".
For example could it be "incerto" or some similar word of same meaning?
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I have learned that "traseiras" means behind (outside).
Therefore it seems likely that this elasticated hairband was found outside behind the south bedroom.
This makes sense because the GNR officer who found the elasticated hairband is likely to have been stationed outside the apartment.
P.S. Also that "no chão" (last two words on line 4) is likely to mean that the elasticated hairband was found on the floor of the veranda.
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I wonder if this will turn out to be the Columboesque jigsaw piece that icabod is looking for, that cements the whole case.
I don't suppose that it will be that crucial piece of the jigsaw that Gerry insists is out there.
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I have learned that "traseiras" means behind (outside).
Therefore it seems likely that this elasticated hairband was found outside behind the south bedroom.
This makes sense because the GNR officer who found the elasticated hairband is likely to have been stationed outside the apartment.
P.S. Also that "no chão" (last two words on line 4) is likely to mean that the elasticated hairband was found on the floor of the veranda.
Thanks I would say it's a significant find if it's the pink one. I believe she left via there so that's a possible clue that she did which connects with the cadaver alerts. It also questions bath time.
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Possibly, but it's also possible that she had a number of hairbands from a multipack as previously mentioned. It would be very difficult to make this lead anywhere. If it had traces of blood on it then it could be linked to a head injury but there's no mention and therefore not likely.
Even if this is the only pink hairband it could still have easily been discarded at any time prior to a bath.
Tend to agree with that...the only link between the two we know of is the cadaver dog alerted at the same spot, outside the parents bedroom on that very balcony
No info if the blood dog found was deployed or found anything there though
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Possibly, but it's also possible that she had a number of hairbands from a multipack as previously mentioned. It would be very difficult to make this lead anywhere. If it had traces of blood on it then it could be linked to a head injury but there's no mention and therefore not likely.
Even if this is the only pink hairband it could still have easily been discarded at any time prior to a bath.
Also possibly shared with her sister, along with toothbrush, jimjams and sandles
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Possibly, but it's also possible that she had a number of hairbands from a multipack as previously mentioned. It would be very difficult to make this lead anywhere. If it had traces of blood on it then it could be linked to a head injury but there's no mention and therefore not likely.
Even if this is the only pink hairband it could still have easily been discarded at any time prior to a bath.
Sensible comment Buzz. How true.
It would be difficult to use this as evidence unless blood or hair or DNA of another was found on it.
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An EVRD on the veranda indicated with his nose through the railings (also on the ground below the railings).
Therefore IMO an elasticated hairband found, probably on or near the veranda, would be something to check out, by simply retrieving said object from storage to check colour, and if colour is deemed relevant, ask the named GNR officer who found it for the exact location. OK 95% likely it may prove to be irrelevant, but what if its not?
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This more interesting:
The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by the door.
Living room, behind sofa.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.
NUIPC: 201/07.0 Galgs, Section: 4th Brigade. Inspector Joao Carlos
The undersigned officer remits the following articles to the PJ:
Portimao 14 December 2007
To be Deposited:
1. An envelope containing one elastic band made of synthetic material, used to tie hair.
Handwritten note says:
"On 9th May 2007 at 06.00 a police officer from Aljezur found (at the back of Maddie’s parents bedroom) an elastic hair band dropped on the floor".
(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1895656.ece/alternates/s1023/Madeleine-McCann.jpg)
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_4/o_apenso_4_Vol_2_p287.jpg)
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A hair bobble discovered by an un-named officer was found on 9th May but not sent off for analysis until December. Does that discovery yet again call into question the CSI examinations carried out prior to 9th May?
Does the report say what colour the hair bobble was?
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No that's it but the officer should have said what colour it was. SY should contact him for further details on the colour and exact location found.
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No that's it but the officer should have said what colour it was. SY should contact him for further details on the colour and exact location found.
Do you really think either the "conspiring parents" or the "abuctor" would have bothered to remove that hair bobble? Have you ever tried getting one, twisted round so many times, out of long hair? You usually end up cutting the bobble out & some hair with it.
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Do you really think either the "conspiring parents" or the "abuctor" would have bothered to remove that hair bobble? Have you ever tried getting one, twisted round so many times, out of long hair? You usually end up cutting the bobble out & some hair with it.
Her Mum probably used the same to hold her hair up...............I do! but she would have more hair so less likely to tangle and possibly a thicker band. There is very little detail about the band and they usually come in packs of several. No mention of hair attached to it, so possibly unused, but who knows?
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This topic relaunched.