Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 12:42:55 AM
Title: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 12:42:55 AM
To me it was a catharsis which Kate badly needed. And if the book made money, which it did, then good.
One gets a very strong sense from the narrative that the purpose is really catharsis. The book was written primarily for Kate McCann - not for anyone else.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: icabodcrane on February 26, 2014, 12:57:28 AM
One gets a very strong sense from the narrative that the purpose is really catharsis. The book was written primarily for Kate McCann - not for anyone else.
We all sense things differently, I suppose
The 'sense' I get is that the book was written for two reasons ... neither of which was for it's cathartic value to Kate McCann
I sense that the book was written in an attempt to re-enforce the McCann 'narrative' ... and in order to make enough money to pay the enormous legal fees they are piling up
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 01:01:23 AM
One gets a very strong sense from the narrative that the purpose is really catharsis. The book was written primarily for Kate McCann - not for anyone else.
And why would anyone be intereted in"kate" rather than "madeleine"
The book was to make money but in being written had to rewrite history too
Four months before it was launched she went on morning tv saying her role in the campaign was " income generation"
and shed been writing it for six months apparently
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 01:07:28 AM
The 'sense' I get is that the book was written for two reasons ... neither of which was for it's cathartic value to Kate McCann
I sense that the book was written in an attempt to re-enforce the McCann 'narrative' ... and in order to make enough money to pay the enormous legal fees they are piling up
Those things are definitely important.
But there are many ways of making money and gaining publicity - for people who are tenacious and well-connected.
This was a highly personal way of doing that.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 01:15:24 AM
But there are many ways of making money and gaining publicity - for people who are tenacious and well-connected.
This was a highly personal way of doing that.
yea writing a book about what the worlds media had been writing about for donkeys years but from "the horses mouth" as it were This time
Bound to be a best seller, whatever was in it really
One of the reasons Kate said the book was important was it might jog peoples memories, shame she never put the smiths efit into it hey. DANG! every other tom dick or harry but not the only person seen by a load of witnesses carrying a four yr old blonde child on the night, how very very strange sherlock
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 01:19:49 AM
And why would anyone be intereted in"kate" rather than "madeleine"
The book was to make money but in being written had to rewrite history too
Four months before it was launched she went on morning tv saying her role in the campaign was " income generation"
and shed been writing it for six months apparently
We're speaking about what Kate's motivation was. The public are probably not interested in every last thought of hers, yet the book is as much about her thoughts and ideas as it is about Madeleine herself.
Of course money comes into it, that is a given.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: icabodcrane on February 26, 2014, 01:20:31 AM
But there are many ways of making money and gaining publicity - for people who are tenacious and well-connected.
This was a highly personal way of doing that.
Are there ?
What ways of making money are you thinking of ? ... sponsored events ? ... begging bowl to the rich and famous ? ... appeals to the public ? ... magazine deals ?
Those avenues had been exhausted, and still the legal fees kept piling up
They had to be paid somehow ... the 'book' was the answer
What they do now though, with financial resources drying up, whilst legal fees just keep on growing, is anyone's guess
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 01:25:22 AM
We're speaking about what Kate's motivation was. The public are probably not interested in every last thought of hers, yet the book is as much about her thoughts and ideas as it is about Madeleine herself.
Of course money comes into it, that is a given.
She would have been better off answering the 48 questions! Not rewriting history, not embellishing facts, and not whinging complaining and blaming so many people, its quite abhorent her pointing her finger to so many innocents as well as the ingratitude to those who helped, she is quite unforgiveable all in all
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 01:26:08 AM
What ways of making money are you thinking of ? ... sponsored events ? ... begging bowl to the rich and famous ? ... appeals to the public ? ... magazine deals ?
Those avenues had been exhausted, and still the legal fees kept piling up
They had to be paid somehow ... the 'book' was the answer
What they do now though, with financial resources drying up, whilst legal fees just keep on growing, is anyone's guess
I mean that if the McCanns are as well connected and powerful as they are sometimes portrayed as being, with wealthy sponsors and friends in high places - not to mention the British tax payer, who seems to have been very magnanimous of late - then there would be different ways of securing funds.
Going by the logic that the book was mainly for financial reasons and that funds must be drying up, do you think we should be expecting a sequel?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: VIXTE on February 26, 2014, 01:31:17 AM
IMO the book is a result of her inner struggle to come to terms with her loss... and also to write her own answer to all of the stories she as well can read on the net..
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 01:34:25 AM
Had "Madeleine" a cathartic virtue, the case against Amaral would likely have been dropped. The motivation was making money, Mrs McCann said it many times. Making money and attempting to set in stone their account of the truth. There was the rub ! How much could she free herself from history to rewrite it, betraying, omitting, suggesting ? Nevertheless the first objective was pretty well achieved, the second, neither informative nor "written", only convinced those who were already fans.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 01:39:16 AM
Had "Madeleine" a cathartic virtue, the case against Amaral would likely have been dropped. The motivation was making money, Mrs McCann said it many times. Making money and attempting to set in stone their account of the truth. There was the rub ! How much could she free herself from history to rewrite it, betraying, omitting, suggesting ? Nevertheless the first objective was pretty well achieved, the second, neither informative nor "written", only convinced those who were already fans.
+1
Nothing but a money making exercise
one catharsises themselves to their counsellors or priests, friends or family, but they dont normally pay you for doing so
But the SUN will give you half a million pound for extracts from your book about a missing child and shove in our faces that I COULDNT MAKE LOVE TO GERRY because of what happened
the same group they complained about notw printing kates diary and how mentally raped she felt! as she told leveson inquiry
Got over it quick i suppose after the 125k payment as apology and half a million for extracts from her book deal
PUKE!!! at the hypocrisy and lies
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 01:45:01 AM
I mean that if the McCanns are as well connected and powerful as they are sometimes portrayed as being, with wealthy sponsors and friends in high places - not to mention the British tax payer, who seems to have been very magnanimous of late - then there would be different ways of securing funds.
Going by the logic that the book was mainly for financial reasons and that funds must be drying up, do you think we should be expecting a sequel?
"Answering 48 questions and one" would possibly sell well, especially the "one".
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 01:52:44 AM
I mean that if the McCanns are as well connected and powerful as they are sometimes portrayed as being, with wealthy sponsors and friends in high places - not to mention the British tax payer, who seems to have been very magnanimous of late - then there would be different ways of securing funds.
Going by the logic that the book was mainly for financial reasons and that funds must be drying up, do you think we should be expecting a sequel?
You believe, then, that the McCanns are mystically 'well connected and powerful' .... and can get all the money they need to pay the enormous legal fees they are relentlessly running up by relying on weathy sponspors and 'friends in high places' ?
I always thpought that was a myth, myself
That's why I believe the book was written out of financial necessity
As to whether there will be a 'sequel' I do hope not ... there comes a point when the child that disappeared at the tender age of three should be better honoured
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 02:35:05 AM
You believe, then, that the McCanns are mystically 'well connected and powerful' .... and can get all the money they need to pay the enormous legal fees they are relentlessly running up by relying on weathy sponspors and 'friends in high places' ?
I always thpought that was a myth, myself
That's why I believe the book was written out of financial necessity
As to whether there will be a 'sequel' I do hope not ... there comes a point when the child that disappeared at the tender age of three should be better honoured
Actually I don't believe that they are 'mystically' well-connected and powerful. On the contrary; they are two provincial doctors from ordinary families whose connections, insofar as they can be called that, were only made in the context of this tragedy.
Some people like to portray the McCanns as all powerful people in whose presence international leaders tremble, and that is certainly a falsehood with overtones of conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: icabodcrane on February 26, 2014, 02:41:27 AM
Actually I don't believe that they are 'mystically' well-connected and powerful. On the contrary; they are two provincial doctors from ordinary families whose connections, insofar as they can be called that, were only made in the context of this tragedy.
Some people like to portray the McCanns as all powerful people in whose presence international leaders tremble, and that is certainly a falsehood with overtones of conspiracy theory.
Well then we agree
Now, how do you propose these two provincial doctors from ordinary families could have raised the money necessary to pay the astronomical legal fees they have incurred without 'the book' ?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Silkywhiskers on February 26, 2014, 02:42:47 AM
They were well connected.
Gordon Brown stepped in and supplied them with Clarence.
They were supplied with private jets by Branson, who wouldn't miss a few million if he felt he was helping find a little lost girl.
This initial support, which is understandable from a human level, has fallen away.
The result of this is Operation Grange.
They are going to solve this. They have more or less told us that they already have ("we have names"), it's now just paperwork and cooperation and of course, the arrest itself.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 02:47:04 AM
Now, how do you propose these two provincial doctors from ordinary families could have raised the money necessary to pay the astronomical legal fees they have incurred without 'the book' ?
I think it is hard to say exactly what might have paid for what.
Funds came from several sources of which the book was certainly an important one, and combined they paid the legal fees - and many other things besides.
There is no doubt that regardless of how the accounting was done, this level of activity cannot be sustained much longer. Once the British taxpayer is out of the equation and SY have reached the end of the line, it will be very hard for the McCanns to persuade anyone else, however wealthy, to donate to a bottomless pit.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: icabodcrane on February 26, 2014, 03:01:53 AM
I think it is hard to say exactly what might have paid for what.
Funds came from several sources of which the book was certainly an important one, and combined they paid the legal fees - and many other things besides.
There is no doubt that regardless of how the accounting was done, this level of activity cannot be sustained much longer. Once the British taxpayer is out of the equation and SY have reached the end of the line, it will be very hard for the McCanns to persuade anyone else, however wealthy, to donate to a bottomless pit.
No, no ... no obsfucation now Sherlock
You said that 'the book' was was written, primarily, for Kate McCann's personal cartharsis, whilst I said it was written, primarily, for financial reasons ( to pay the increasingly overwhelming legal fees )
One of us must be wrong
You must provide reasoning for your assertion that the 'primary reason' for writing the book was not financial ... and in order to do that you must offer an alternative source of funding that the McCanns could rely on to pay their ever growing legal fees ( thereby making 'the book' a cathartic, stand-alone, personal homage by Kate McCann to her lost child )
Can you do that ?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 03:13:08 AM
You said that 'the book' was was written, primarily, for Kate McCann's personal cartharsis, whilst I said it was written, primarily, for financial reasons ( to pay the increasingly overwhelming legal fees )
One of us must be wrong
You must provide reasoning for your assertion that the 'primary reason' for writing the book was not financial ... and in order to do that you must offer an alternative source of funding that the McCanns could rely on to pay their ever growing legal fees ( thereby making 'the book' a cathartic, stand-alone, personal homage by Kate McCann to her lost child )
Can you do that ?
A few things, icabod.
First of all, I don't think it's an either / or - cathartic vs financial. The McCanns have many sources of funding and we don't know exactly which of those went into financing court costs. So to pitch that against the idea that Kate wrote the book for cathartic reasons seems to be jumping the gun a bit.
But I appreciate what you are saying at a more general level. Yes, money was obviously needed, and the book must have helped.
I was really speaking of the literary style and personal content - of which Redblossom gives us a lovely example above - which is redolent of Kate's personal feelings and views. The book is not, I would say, an homage to Madeleine at all.
That was the initial distinction that I was making - the distinction between the book's title, and its content, which relates more to its author than its subject.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: icabodcrane on February 26, 2014, 03:42:49 AM
First of all, I don't think it's an either / or - cathartic vs financial. The McCanns have many sources of funding and we don't know exactly which of those went into financing court costs. So to pitch that against the idea that Kate wrote the book for cathartic reasons seems to be jumping the gun a bit.
But I appreciate what you are saying at a more general level. Yes, money was obviously needed, and the book must have helped.
I was really speaking of the literary style and personal content - of which Redblossom gives us a lovely example above - which is redolent of Kate's personal feelings and views. The book is not, I would say, an homage to Madeleine at all.
That was the initial distinction that I was making - the distinction between the book's title, and its content, which relates more to its author than its subject.
It's late, and I'm not really up to a discourse on the 'loveliness' of Kate McCann's book
The subject you and I have been debating is the primary reason for the book having been written in the first place
You said it was 'primarily' written by Kate McCann for herself ... a necessary personal catharsis
I said it was 'primarily' written for financial reasons ... to pay the ever growing legal fees that could not have been met without the book having been written
I guess neither of us can definatively be proven right, but let us, at least, agree that there is no blurring of the lines where the question of 'primary' motivation is concerned
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: John on February 26, 2014, 05:01:08 AM
I always understood that the book was written to fund the search but the cathartic suggestion has much value.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: slartibartfast on February 26, 2014, 08:21:40 AM
Gordon Brown stepped in and supplied them with Clarence.
They were supplied with private jets by Branson, who wouldn't miss a few million if he felt he was helping find a little lost girl.
This initial support, which is understandable from a human level, has fallen away.
The result of this is Operation Grange.
They are going to solve this. They have more or less told us that they already have ("we have names"), it's now just paperwork and cooperation and of course, the arrest itself.
As mentioned, only well connected from an abduction pov.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on February 26, 2014, 08:57:21 AM
You believe, then, that the McCanns are mystically 'well connected and powerful' .... and can get all the money they need to pay the enormous legal fees they are relentlessly running up by relying on weathy sponspors and 'friends in high places' ?
I always thpought that was a myth, myself
That's why I believe the book was written out of financial necessity
As to whether there will be a 'sequel' I do hope not ... there comes a point when the child that disappeared at the tender age of three should be better honoured
I agree with you Icabod on the highlighted points. The interesting thing for me is why Esther McVey dropped it like a hot brick after a few weeks. Apart from being drop dead gorgeous she is nobody's fool. I am also interested in what the half million restricted funds are in the company accounts. "Restricted funds" is normally an accounting term for charities where the donor has specified how they should be spent. In this instance one can only speculate. Martin Roberts described Kate's book as "a defence document looking for a trial". I agree wholeheartedly with your last point too.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 09:03:47 AM
I believe the book was written for carthartic and financial reasons, but mainly cathartic.
Kate has said that she needed to put their side of story out there. How frustrating it must have been with Amaral's book in the public domain with what he believed had happened to Madeleine. It must have been devastating and would bring a feeling of helplessness.
By writing her book, I believe it would have been good for Kate to get all her feelings out on paper, to tell her story.
Kate had kept a record of what happened right from the beginning in her diary, she wanted the details in order for Madeleine to know what happened and that they had been trying to find her from the start.
Of course Kate McCann is no writer in that sense, she obviously had help and I can imagine when asked of the way she was feeling when in the depth of knowledge that her daughter had been snatched by who knows who, all the feelings of desperation would come out. Also how everything had affected her relationship with Gerry. Everything came out as it was, she was very honest.
I believe this book was written firstly to get the truth out, secondly because it would help Kate to get it all out and thirdly it helped to fill the fund.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: slartibartfast on February 26, 2014, 09:13:17 AM
I believe the book was written for carthartic and financial reasons, but mainly cathartic.
Kate has said that she needed to put their side of story out there. How frustrating it must have been with Amaral's book in the public domain with what he believed had happened to Madeleine. It must have been devastating and would bring a feeling of helplessness.
By writing her book, I believe it would have been good for Kate to get all her feelings out on paper, to tell her story.
Kate had kept a record of what happened right from the beginning in her diary, she wanted the details in order for Madeleine to know what happened and that they had been trying to find her from the start.
Of course Kate McCann is no writer in that sense, she obviously had help and I can imagine when asked of the way she was feeling when in the depth of knowledge that her daughter had been snatched by who knows who, all the feelings of desperation would come out. Also how everything had affected her relationship with Gerry. Everything came out as it was, she was very honest.
I believe this book was written firstly to get the truth out, secondly because it would help Kate to get it all out and thirdly it helped to fill the fund.
So the books are Amaral's truth vs. Kate's truth.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 09:23:05 AM
I believe the book was written for carthartic and financial reasons, but mainly cathartic.
Kate has said that she needed to put their side of story out there. How frustrating it must have been with Amaral's book in the public domain with what he believed had happened to Madeleine. It must have been devastating and would bring a feeling of helplessness.
By writing her book, I believe it would have been good for Kate to get all her feelings out on paper, to tell her story.
Kate had kept a record of what happened right from the beginning in her diary, she wanted the details in order for Madeleine to know what happened and that they had been trying to find her from the start.
Of course Kate McCann is no writer in that sense, she obviously had help and I can imagine when asked of the way she was feeling when in the depth of knowledge that her daughter had been snatched by who knows who, all the feelings of desperation would come out. Also how everything had affected her relationship with Gerry. Everything came out as it was, she was very honest.
I believe this book was written firstly to get the truth out, secondly because it would help Kate to get it all out and thirdly it helped to fill the fund.
That's my impression as well, Lace, although I think the diminishing fund may have been higher up as a priority as, at the time, they didn't know that the case would be reviewed.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: stephen25000 on February 26, 2014, 09:43:34 AM
I wonder how many times in history a 'fund' has been set up to finance, including legal costs, the result of blatantly incompetent parenting ?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 09:48:24 AM
I wonder how many times in history a 'fund' has been set up to finance, including legal costs, the result of blatantly incompetent parenting ?
This is what sticks in peoples throats imo. What has been done is not illegal [unless at some point it can be proved the McCanns knew Madeleine was dead before the company was set up] but there is a history of misleading language surrounding it which aims to lend an air of "respectability" to it. IMO it is not much better than a Crown and Anchor game.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: colombosstogey on February 26, 2014, 10:29:23 AM
Had "Madeleine" a cathartic virtue, the case against Amaral would likely have been dropped. The motivation was making money, Mrs McCann said it many times. Making money and attempting to set in stone their account of the truth. There was the rub ! How much could she free herself from history to rewrite it, betraying, omitting, suggesting ? Nevertheless the first objective was pretty well achieved, the second, neither informative nor "written", only convinced those who were already fans.
It took her six months to write a book about the disappearance of her daughter, and yet only a few minutes to make her disappear in the first place.
I found the book what I read of it, almost sickening especially the lurid detail on page 129:
"Haltingly, I told him about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart..."
What a horrible thing to write about....I found also it was a cathartic attack on Amaral in the main....
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on February 26, 2014, 10:37:29 AM
Warped? what images would you have if you thought your child had been abducted by a Pervert? Kate told it as it was, if the truth is too much for you then tough.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on February 26, 2014, 11:07:14 AM
Warped? what images would you have if you thought your child had been abducted by a Pervert? Kate told it as it was, if the truth is too much for you then tough.
Not those thoughts that's for sure. Kate told it for sensationalism. Were it any one other than Kate McCann you would not be supporting such a gross statement. The question I would ask you is would you recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit your ass.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 11:18:08 AM
Not those thoughts that's for sure. Kate told it for sensationalism. Were it any one other than Kate McCann you would not be supporting such a gross statement. The question I would ask you is would you recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit your ass.
You wouldn't have those thoughts? You wouldn't imagine what could have happened to your child? I don't think you would have any control over what would jump into your imagination if it happened to you. All parents of an abducted child would say that they would be plagued by unwelcome imaginings. You are not being realistic at all.
What truth are you talking about that I wouldn't recognise?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on February 26, 2014, 11:37:42 AM
You wouldn't have those thoughts? You wouldn't imagine what could have happened to your child? I don't think you would have any control over what would jump into your imagination if it happened to you. All parents of an abducted child would say that they would be plagued by unwelcome imaginings. You are not being realistic at all.
What truth are you talking about that I wouldn't recognise?
Most certainly I would not think in the terms expressed by Dr K McCann. However you may wish to excuse it it is gross sensationalism. The rest is speculation on your part as to what I may or may not think based on guessing what I may or may not be like as an individual.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 11:41:35 AM
Most certainly I would not think in the terms expressed by Dr K McCann. However you may wish to excuse it it is gross sensationalism. The rest is speculation on your part as to what I may or may not think based on guessing what I may or may not be like as an individual.
You don't know what you would think or do as you have not been in the position that Kate McCann was in. To call it gross sensationalism just shows that you have no idea how or what a person would think if their child was abducted. Kate was honest about what she was thinking, it is a shame that some are not adult enough to understand.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: colombosstogey on February 26, 2014, 11:42:38 AM
Not those thoughts that's for sure. Kate told it for sensationalism. Were it any one other than Kate McCann you would not be supporting such a gross statement. The question I would ask you is would you recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit your ass.
I think its an horrific statement to make in a book that could be read by younger people. Also really it makes no sense, as IF the McCanns do think she is with a pedophile they are not naive enough to believe she is still alive surely?
I just felt the statement was totally unwarranted and not necessary. SENTIONALISM at its worse IMHO because really apart from flogging or flaggeration of poor Mr Amaral there was nothing else in it but then I honestly only did speed read it as I ran out of peptopismal as it made my stomach churn.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 11:47:38 AM
I think its an horrific statement to make in a book that could be read by younger people. Also really it makes no sense, as IF the McCanns do think she is with a pedophile they are not naive enough to believe she is still alive surely?
I just felt the statement was totally unwarranted and not necessary. SENTIONALISM at its worse IMHO because really apart from flogging or flaggeration of poor Mr Amaral there was nothing else in it but then I honestly only did speed read it as I ran out of peptopismal as it made my stomach churn.
There are millions of books that could be read by younger people that have a lot worse than that in them.
Kate give her thoughts about how she felt very frankly and if that upsets some, then it should make them understand how Kate felt, do you think she wanted to imagine these things? If you are offended by what she said then don't read a book about a missing child.
I will tell you what made my stomach churn, the idea that loving parents could hide their child, dig her up weeks later, stuff her in a freezer then transport her in a car. THAT'S sickening and all in Amaral's book that could be read by younger people.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2014, 11:49:20 AM
I think its an horrific statement to make in a book that could be read by younger people. Also really it makes no sense, as IF the McCanns do think she is with a pedophile they are not naive enough to believe she is still alive surely?
I just felt the statement was totally unwarranted and not necessary. SENTIONALISM at its worse IMHO because really apart from flogging or flaggeration of poor Mr Amaral there was nothing else in it but then I honestly only did speed read it as I ran out of peptopismal as it made my stomach churn.
That is the conundrum - something that in general, McCann supporters don't wish to think about.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: stephen25000 on February 26, 2014, 11:51:59 AM
The book was clearly written for financial reasons, that's not even counting the serialization rights in the 'sun', and clearly has more to do with km's view of the world, and that it should revolve around her.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 11:57:56 AM
Not those thoughts that's for sure. Kate told it for sensationalism. Were it any one other than Kate McCann you would not be supporting such a gross statement. The question I would ask you is would you recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit your ass.
All those books are produced by ghost writers in collaboration with the "author". I really don't think that the reserved and modest Mrs McCann would have written those "sensationalist" and vulgar details, appropriate to the Sun publication of "best' pages. As a selling ploy it was a psychological mistake.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on February 26, 2014, 12:03:03 PM
You don't know what you would think or do as you have not been in the position that Kate McCann was in. To call it gross sensationalism just shows that you have no idea how or what a person would think if their child was abducted. Kate was honest about what she was thinking, it is a shame that some are not adult enough to understand.
Horsefeathers. Thank you again for telling me what I would or would not do based on your arrogantly presumed vast knowledge of me which in reality is three fifths of five eighths of sweet Felicity Arkwright. I wonder how I have managed to survive so long without you behind me telling me what to do or think next. The statement was gross imo. I would never say such a thing or even think it. If you don't believe me don't bother to reply because no amount of blether on your part will alter my mind on the topic.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 12:03:35 PM
The book was clearly written for financial reasons, that's not even counting the serialization rights in the 'sun', and clearly has more to do with km's view of the world, and that it should revovle around her.
It was more of an autobiography with plenty of blame and guilt shifting sprinkles on every other page
And scathing of so many and casting aspersions at all and sundry!
Pretty awful read all in all with the overly dramatic and exagerrated language too....not to mention the excuses, half truths and downright deceptions...Im sure she didnt write it all herself either, too contrived in so many ways for one person alone
Still my 3.50£ was worth it to read half the gunk
Anyone who thnks KM is an honest person needs their head examined IMO
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 12:05:04 PM
Horsefeathers. Thank you again for telling me what I would or would not do based on your arrogantly presumed vast knowledge of me which in reality is three fifths of five eighths of sweet Felicity Arkwright. I wonder how I have managed to survive so long without you behind me telling me what to do or think next. The statement was gross imo. I would never say such a thing or even think it. If you don't believe me don't bother to reply because no amount of blether on your part will alter my mind on the topic.
Quote - 'The stament was gross imo' well there you, don't read adult books then.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Benice on February 26, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
That is the conundrum - something that in general, McCann supporters don't wish to think about.
So no cases then of children being kept for years by paedaphiles? Are you sure of that?
The fact that some people want to deny Madeleine's right to be considered to be alive and to be searched for - when there is no evidence that she is dead is appalling IMO.
Im sure Kerry Needham would be equally appalled.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
It was more of an autobiography with plenty of blame and guilt shifting sprinkles on every other page
And scathing of so many and casting aspersions at all and sundry!
Pretty awful read all in all with the overly dramatic and exagerrated language too....not to mention the excuses, half truths and downright deceptions...Im sure she didnt write it all herself either, too contrived in so many ways for one person alone
Still my 3.50£ was worth it to read half the gun
Anyone who thnks KM is an honest person needs their head examined IMO
Entitled to your opinion Red.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 12:10:23 PM
So no cases then of children being kept for years by paedaphiles? Are you sure of that?
The fact that some people want to deny Madeleine's right to be considered to be alive and to be searched for - when there is no evidence that she is dead is appalling IMO.
Im sure Kerry Needham would be equally appalled.
No dear, not three yr olds!! You will find those that are kept for years are quadruple that age at the very least
And stop crowing about people denying Madeleine any right to be considered alive.....in this scenario it simply is not an option IMO Of course if you can come up with any case anywhere to show otherwise
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 12:13:50 PM
All those books are produced by ghost writers in collaboration with the "author". I really don't think that the reserved and modest Mrs McCann would have written those "sensationalist" and vulgar details, appropriate to the Sun publication of "best' pages. As a selling ploy it was a psychological mistake.
@)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Benice on February 26, 2014, 12:28:25 PM
No dear, not three yr olds!! You will find those that are kept for years are quadruple that age at the very least
And stop crowing about people denying Madeleine any right to be considered alive.....in this scenario it simply is not an option
Why the rude remarks? I haven't been rude to you.
How can anyone possibly know how many children have been abducted and kept for years by paedaphiles. It's only the ones we hear about that we know about. There are billions of people in the world and paedaphiles are paedaphiles wherever they live.
No-one knows why Ben Needham was abducted - or if he is still alive. But until his mum has the evidence that he is dead she will continue to search. That is Ben's right and his family's right too. And that is exactly the same position for Madeleine.
No-one has the right to declare that other people's missing children are dead imo.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 26, 2014, 12:34:22 PM
How can anyone possibly know how many children have been abducted and kept for years by paedaphiles. It's only the ones we hear about that we know about. There are billions of people in the world and paedaphiles are paedaphiles wherever they live.
No-one knows why Ben Needham was abducted - or if he is still alive. But until his mum has the evidence that he is dead she will continue to search. That is Ben's right and his family's right too. And that is exactly the same position for Madeleine.
No-one has the right to declare that other people's missing children are dead imo.
You were rude to me and others by proxy, by sayng we are appalling. Still, evading the question I see. If you think a paedophile took a three yr old and she is alive today youre living in cloud cuckoo land. IMO of course! There is nothng in any shape or form to back up your theory, if there is, please share. No good sayng there are billions of people in the world.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: stephen25000 on February 26, 2014, 12:41:03 PM
You were rude to me and others by proxy, by sayng we are appalling. Still, evading the question I see. If you think a paedophile took a three yr old and she is alive today youre living in cloud cuckoo land. IMO of course! There is nothng in any shape or form to back up your theory, if there is, please share. No good sayng there are billions of people in the world.
Well said Redblossom. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 12:56:31 PM
You were rude to me and others by proxy, by sayng we are appalling. Still, evading the question I see. If you think a paedophile took a three yr old and she is alive today youre living in cloud cuckoo land. IMO of course! There is nothng in any shape or form to back up your theory, if there is, please share. No good sayng there are billions of people in the world.
There are paedophiles who have taken young children and kept them.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Benice on February 26, 2014, 01:06:23 PM
You were rude to me and others by proxy, by sayng we are appalling. Still, evading the question I see. If you think a paedophile took a three yr old and she is alive today youre living in cloud cuckoo land. IMO of course! There is nothng in any shape or form to back up your theory, if there is, please share. No good sayng there are billions of people in the world.
I wasn't rude to you at all. IMO Insisting that a child is dead - when there is no evidence of that at all - is dismissing a child's life and her right to be found as well as as seeking to destroy all hope in the grieving families.
IMO that is an appalling way to treat other human beings. If you don't think it is - then that's up to you. it doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion.
As far as I know paedaphiles do not have rules about ages. Even babies are not safe from them.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2014, 01:10:54 PM
No dear, not three yr olds!! You will find those that are kept for years are quadruple that age at the very least
And stop crowing about people denying Madeleine any right to be considered alive.....in this scenario it simply is not an option IMO Of course if you can come up with any case anywhere to show otherwise
EXACTLY.
There is no way a pedophile is going to keep a three year old ALIVE for their amusements and use. They snatch children under 5 and most are found dead within a few hours sadly. Why would a pedophile want to be burdened with looking after a crying 3 year old. GET REAL REALLY.
Most children are snatched over 7 years old and yes sadly kept in terrible conditions and used by pedophiles there is no denying that. Sick bastewards, they should have their testes cut off...
But 3 year olds no way.
Also sexual abuse is rife in families with their own children and they can be under 5 years old, even babies it makes me feel sick to my stomach to even think people can do this to their own children.
To be honest IF the child was taken by a sick pedophile she would have wished to have died without doubt and if she was my baby I would wish that for her, rather then have her abused constantly I cant bear to think of it.
Its too blo*dy naive to think the child if taken by a pedophile is still alive sadly.
thats being honest and not showing any disloyalty to the child.
Poor baby. 8(8-))
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Lace on February 26, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
There is no way a pedophile is going to keep a three year old ALIVE for their amusements and use. They snatch children under 5 and most are found dead within a few hours sadly. Why would a pedophile want to be burdened with looking after a crying 3 year old. GET REAL REALLY.
Most children are snatched over 7 years old and yes sadly kept in terrible conditions and used by pedophiles there is no denying that. Sick bastewards, they should have their testes cut off...
But 3 year olds no way.
Also sexual abuse is rife in families with their own children and they can be under 5 years old, even babies it makes me feel sick to my stomach to even think people can do this to their own children.
To be honest IF the child was taken by a sick pedophile she would have wished to have died without doubt and if she was my baby I would wish that for her, rather then have her abused constantly I cant bear to think of it.
Its too blo*dy naive to think the child if taken by a pedophile is still alive sadly.
thats being honest and not showing any disloyalty to the child.
Poor baby. 8(8
A lone paedophile they say would have killed within the first two hours or so, as there was no body found, this was ruled out.
I cling on to the hope that she was taken to be sold for adoption, which does go on.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2014, 02:08:32 PM
It's late, and I'm not really up to a discourse on the 'loveliness' of Kate McCann's book
The subject you and I have been debating is the primary reason for the book having been written in the first place
You said it was 'primarily' written by Kate McCann for herself ... a necessary personal catharsis
I said it was 'primarily' written for financial reasons ... to pay the ever growing legal fees that could not have been met without the book having been written
I guess neither of us can definatively be proven right, but let us, at least, agree that there is no blurring of the lines where the question of 'primary' motivation is concerned
The fact that the book focuses so heavily on Kate, her feelings, thoughts, ideas, and has a prose style that is heavily inflected with emotion and subjectivity, shows that emotional reasons were very important in its creation.
Yes, it was going to make money. But if it had been written with investigative value in mind, it would have been more fact and less emotion focused. As redblossom mentions, for example, no reference to the Smith e-fit (though they were not mentioned anywhere at that point so for continuity's sake Kate would have had to omit them).
This book was not merely a money spinner, or a setting straight of records; nor was it an homage to Madeleine whose name is mentioned far less frequently than one would expect it to be. It is an emotional mother's emotional response.
Note that she is the author - not Gerry or a joint project.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 02:53:10 PM
A lone paedophile they say would have killed within the first two hours or so, as there was no body found, this was ruled out.
I cling on to the hope that she was taken to be sold for adoption, which does go on.
Predators are now well informed about DNA, they wouldn't leave the body in some waste land, but put it in a bin. A couple of hours later it would be on a landfill, not having the shape of a body.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 03:00:45 PM
one catharsises themselves to their counsellors or priests, friends or family, but they dont normally pay you for doing so
But the SUN will give you half a million pound for extracts from your book about a missing child and shove in our faces that I COULDNT MAKE LOVE TO GERRY because of what happened
the same group they complained about notw printing kates diary and how mentally raped she felt! as she told leveson inquiry
Got over it quick i suppose after the 125k payment as apology and half a million for extracts from her book deal
PUKE!!! at the hypocrisy and lies
Don't know about this, red.
Not everyone has priests in today's world. People use the press and social media to display their innermost thoughts and ideas. Look at celebrity culture and the personal details that we have to hear about (as you tell so well above!) People seem to feel the need to bear themselves in public like this - with the added benefit of being paid. And there seems to be an unslakable thirst for it among the public. That's what we have become used to, unsavoury as it is.
I do not see this book as anything different from any other celebrity offering.
Show me how it has helped the search, as presumably that would have been one of the goals in setting records straight.
Show me how it has helped the public image of the McCanns or appease their detractors.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2014, 03:42:36 PM
Not everyone has priests in today's world. People use the press and social media to display their innermost thoughts and ideas. Look at celebrity culture and the personal details that we have to hear about (as you tell so well above!) People seem to feel the need to bear themselves in public like this - with the added benefit of being paid. And there seems to be an unslakable thirst for it among the public. That's what we have become used to, unsavoury as it is.
I do not see this book as anything different from any other celebrity offering.
Show me how it has helped the search, as presumably that would have been one of the goals in setting records straight.
Show me how it has helped the public image of the McCanns or appease their detractors.
The McCanns did, though, right from the start.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 03:45:48 PM
All those books are produced by ghost writers in collaboration with the "author". I really don't think that the reserved and modest Mrs McCann would have written those "sensationalist" and vulgar details, appropriate to the Sun publication of "best' pages. As a selling ploy it was a psychological mistake.
You think that the Sun suggested to her that she write about her daughter's genitals?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on February 26, 2014, 03:46:15 PM
Quote - 'The stament was gross imo' well there you, don't read adult books then.
Typical response. Change the subject and avoid the issue because it is uncomfortable. There is a load of pious twaddle spouted by the McCanns with reference to Dr Amaral's book and the effect it will have on the surviving children. Dr Amaral's book must be banned world wide because of this. But it is perfectly acceptable for the children to read the contents of Dr K McCanns book.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 03:53:03 PM
How can anyone possibly know how many children have been abducted and kept for years by paedaphiles. It's only the ones we hear about that we know about. There are billions of people in the world and paedaphiles are paedaphiles wherever they live.
No-one knows why Ben Needham was abducted - or if he is still alive. But until his mum has the evidence that he is dead she will continue to search. That is Ben's right and his family's right too. And that is exactly the same position for Madeleine.
No-one has the right to declare that other people's missing children are dead imo.
This is a very important point. Organised Paedophile groups and child trafficking groups in general account for tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands of people. It is impossible to compile accurate statistics on who ends up where for what, but it is reasonable to assume that there are large numbers of people who have been kept alive for many years for one purpose or another.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 04:04:05 PM
This is a very important point. Organised Paedophile groups and child trafficking groups in general account for tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands of people. It is impossible to compile accurate statistics on who ends up where for what, but it is reasonable to assume that there are large numbers of people who have been kept alive for many years for one purpose or another.
It seems to me that it would be impossible to compile accurate statistics on how many people are involved in organised paedophile groups or child trafficking groups, perhaps we could try asking our local Labour Party candidates.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 26, 2014, 04:11:15 PM
It seems to me that it would be impossible to compile accurate statistics on how many people are involved in organised paedophile groups or child trafficking groups, perhaps we could try asking our local Labour Party candidates.
Good idea!!
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Carana on February 26, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
.... quote removed as argumentative ...
I've already provided a link to Tara Burke at least twice. She was only three and was only rescued because another little hostage managed to escape and alert the police.
Statistics on the age of abducted and murdered children can only be compiled the bodies / murderers are found (or other compelling evidence indicating a suspicious death). Otherwise the child is still missing.
If no trace of the child is found, then murder may seem likely, but not a fact.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2014, 08:04:57 PM
It was more of an autobiography with plenty of blame and guilt shifting sprinkles on every other page
And scathing of so many and casting aspersions at all and sundry!
Pretty awful read all in all with the overly dramatic and exagerrated language too....not to mention the excuses, half truths and downright deceptions...Im sure she didnt write it all herself either, too contrived in so many ways for one person alone
Still my 3.50£ was worth it to read half the gunk
Anyone who thnks KM is an honest person needs their head examined IMO
In think KM is honest and I think you...and several others..need their heads examined.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2014, 08:18:54 PM
Typical response. Change the subject and avoid the issue because it is uncomfortable. There is a load of pious twaddle spouted by the McCanns with reference to Dr Amaral's book and the effect it will have on the surviving children. Dr Amaral's book must be banned world wide because of this. But it is perfectly acceptable for the children to read the contents of Dr K McCanns book.
The court will decide wether amarals book is libellous...simple as that...not the McCanns
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2014, 09:17:37 PM
It seems to me that it would be impossible to compile accurate statistics on how many people are involved in organised paedophile groups or child trafficking groups, perhaps we could try asking our local Labour Party candidates.
And your ISPs (including giant telecommunications companies), as they shared the NCCL's philosophy (but that isn't mentioned by the Mail's simplistic politically-motivated witch hunt).
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: ferryman on February 26, 2014, 09:35:57 PM
I'm glad we've got that sorted - courts decide what is and what is not libel.
By the same token, terminological inexatitudes such as that Eddie had "no hesitation" in reacting to the Renault (when Eddie did no such thing!); that Madeleine was transported somewhere dead in the Renault by Kate and Gerry (when both the forensics and the canine reactions say the opposite); that cadaver scent was detected all over the place (when both Harrison and Grime say the opposite); that he (Amaral) was more knowledgeable on forensics than Prior ... (etc.)
ought to be persuasive evidence that Amaral has perpetuated falsehoods that tend to lower the reputations of Kate and Gerry ...
That ought to weigh heavily in favour of Kate and Gerry.
And did Kate ever sack a liaison officer from the Leicestershire police who asked her where her daughter was?
There's no evidence of it anything we read ....
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 09:43:11 PM
And your ISPs (including giant telecommunications companies), as they shared the NCCL's philosophy (but that isn't mentioned by the Mail's simplistic politically-motivated witch hunt).
Why wouldn't they hunt trolls for a change ?
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on February 26, 2014, 10:09:21 PM
The fact that the book focuses so heavily on Kate, her feelings, thoughts, ideas, and has a prose style that is heavily inflected with emotion and subjectivity, shows that emotional reasons were very important in its creation.
Yes, it was going to make money. But if it had been written with investigative value in mind, it would have been more fact and less emotion focused. As redblossom mentions, for example, no reference to the Smith e-fit (though they were not mentioned anywhere at that point so for continuity's sake Kate would have had to omit them).
This book was not merely a money spinner, or a setting straight of records; nor was it an homage to Madeleine whose name is mentioned far less frequently than one would expect it to be. It is an emotional mother's emotional response.
Note that she is the author - not Gerry or a joint project.
It was actually promoted as somethng that might jog someones memory...and it will be a piece of evidence as well, appended to the PJ process for future reference and use as was their documentary. Both as good as witness statements.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 27, 2014, 02:01:16 PM
It was actually promoted as somethng that might jog someones memory...and it will be a piece of evidence as well, appended to the PJ process for future reference and use as was their documentary. Both as good as witness statements.
It may well have been promoted as that, and useful for other things too, but that is separate from the motivation.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Carew on February 27, 2014, 05:39:55 PM
Goes without saying that the financial was a big part of it - not denying that.
But the cathartic element was strong. And I agree with you, Luz. The purpose of Catharsis is emotional purge, not exposition of facts.
The purpose of Catharsis ( in psychological terms ) is the purging of repressed emotions
I have read Kate's book and I do not see any such cathartic process ... there are no emotions expressed in it, that I can see, which have not been expressed previously ( and often )
What are the emotions you are refering to ? ( which Kate repressed prior to writing the book )
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Silkywhiskers on February 27, 2014, 06:33:08 PM
The purpose of Catharsis ( in psychological terms ) is the purging of repressed emotions
I have read Kate's book and I do not see any such cathartic process ... there are no emotions expressed in it, that I can see, which have not been expressed previously ( and often )
What are the emotions you are refering to ? ( which Kate repressed prior to writing the book )
Not only are there no emotions, there are no descriptions of Madeleine the little girl.
We get Madeleine in the Tennis Ball photo, Madeleine in her new outfit, all descriptive of PHOTOGRAPHS.
There is nothing personal, or emotional at all, when she talks of her daughter. Madeleine has become her own image rather than a living, breathing, much loved baby.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Redblossom on February 27, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
The book was also to be a record of events for the three kids to read when they are older? Its in the intro somewhere. IIRC
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 28, 2014, 02:42:15 AM
The purpose of Catharsis ( in psychological terms ) is the purging of repressed emotions
I have read Kate's book and I do not see any such cathartic process ... there are no emotions expressed in it, that I can see, which have not been expressed previously ( and often )
What are the emotions you are refering to ? ( which Kate repressed prior to writing the book )
The term 'catharsis', as far as I remember, is Aristotelian. It is certainly a Greek word, and if not coined by Aristotle himself, was used by him to refer to purging and cleansing, often through the production of works of creativity.
Repression is a nineteenth century term and concept, and I do not believe Catharsis is necessarily the purging of repressed emotions, but merely the removal of strong and important ones.
As we have mentioned before with regard to Gerry and Kate McCann, people obviously have different ways of expressing those emotions. Kate is clearly uncomfortable displaying her feelings, and over compensates in the book by making crude references to extremely personal thoughts and ideas, out of the blue.
There are indeed few direct references to Kate's feelings in the book, and more significantly, as Luz points out, few warm references to Madeleine. In fact there isn't that much in there about Madeleine at all.
A book entitled 'Madeleine' should really be about someone called Madeleine (forgive me my simplicity, I'm just a high school English teacher!). This book 'Madeleine', however, is really far more about Kate. That essential narcissistic element indicates that the book was really written for Kate herself - whether she puts in fluffy and emotional comments or not.
The process of writing and displaying that writing in the shop window was more important for Kate than the actual 'Madeleine' content. Quantity (of words) constituted the purge, rather than their emotional quality.
The act of catharsis lies in the process of creating. Whether the final product is what the audience was expecting is something else.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 28, 2014, 02:50:16 AM
I am surprised you are indulging me in my psychobabble, icabod, but I appreciate it. ?{)(**
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: valeria on February 28, 2014, 09:03:16 AM
catharsis in Aristotele is the effect of the tragedy on the viewr in theater. Although the importance of the term has risen over the centuries the intellectuals,the most accepted meaning of the term is atonement that comes after you pass the process of pain. The exact etymological sense of the word in greek is exemption from something harmful. Was the writting of the book a painful experience for Kate...i dont know. I havent read it. You can understand better.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 28, 2014, 06:09:39 PM
catharsis in Aristotele is the effect of the tragedy on the viewr in theater. Although the importance of the term has risen over the centuries the intellectuals,the most accepted meaning of the term is atonement that comes after you pass the process of pain. The exact etymological sense of the word in greek is exemption from something harmful. Was the writting of the book a painful experience for Kate...i dont know. I havent read it. You can understand better.
Thanks for the clarification, valeria. It seems we are mixing up the idea of catharsis with the more modern concept of the expulsion of repressed or other emotions.
These technicalities aside, it is well known that many people write books about major events in their lives, and that the process of writing is of assistance to them - whether the title hits the bestseller list or not.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Carana on February 28, 2014, 07:34:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification, valeria. It seems we are mixing up the idea of catharsis with the more modern concept of the expulsion of repressed or other emotions.
These technicalities aside, it is well known that many people write books about major events in their lives, and that the process of writing is of assistance to them - whether the title hits the bestseller list or not.
Or composing songs, hitting punch bags or whatever else. A way of releasing pain, anger, frustration.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Silkywhiskers on February 28, 2014, 10:49:14 PM
Again, she wrote an "account of the truth".
Not The Truth, but an Account of the truth....Kate's account.
Like the unasked for "timeline", both adjusted and carefully planned to skip around any questions as to who was where, when.
They protest too much....!
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on February 28, 2014, 11:15:50 PM
One person's account is only ever part of the Truth. All of our views are subjective.
The timeline would certainly have been asked for whether or not it had not been written down voluntarily at the start.
I disagree. The police would have constructed their own timeline from the statements made by various witnesses. By having a timeline presented to them as a fait accompli , they were led towards accepting the Tapas one as being essentially accurate.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2014, 09:18:18 AM
I disagree. The police would have constructed their own timeline from the statements made by various witnesses. By having a timeline presented to them as a fait accompli , they were led towards accepting the Tapas one as being essentially accurate.
What is important is WHY the tapas wrote down the timeline..your and my view would be completely different...mine would support innocent parents
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: jassi on March 01, 2014, 09:49:54 AM
One person's account is only ever part of the Truth. All of our views are subjective.
The timeline would certainly have been asked for whether or not it had not been written down voluntarily at the start.
While that is true, people tend to believe that what they're relaying is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and therefore tend to refer to it as The Truth.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2014, 10:40:26 AM
Indeed they would. My interpretation is so that they would all be singing from the same hymn sheet.
My interpretation is that they were using brainstorming techniques to make sure the information they would give the police would be as accurate and as helpful as possible...a perfectly innocent explanation
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: peter claridge on March 01, 2014, 10:51:45 AM
My interpretation is that they were using brainstorming techniques to make sure the information they would give the police would be as accurate and as helpful as possible...a perfectly innocent explanation
My interpretation would be that it was a complete fabrication brought on by the Smith family sighting... there was certainly a storm brewing in O'Brien's head the writer of said timelines, he couldn't recall the events specific to himself
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 01, 2014, 05:55:46 PM
What is important is WHY the tapas wrote down the timeline..your and my view would be completely different...mine would support innocent parents
Good points all, but this is the main one. It is the intention behind constructing the timeline that is the most important factor. The intention of T9 was to record events before they were forgotten in the fray.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: AnneGuedes on March 01, 2014, 06:09:23 PM
While that is true, people tend to believe that what they're relaying is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and therefore tend to refer to it as The Truth.
An "account" is a version.
Kate's version of The Truth is not The Truth, if it was Smithman would be included.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Carew on March 02, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
The book was also to be a record of events for the three kids to read when they are older? Its in the intro somewhere. IIRC
Yes...........with Kate`s famously " leaked" diary, the writing of which was apparently suggested by her sister-in-law, Ms. P. McCann and intended as a record for Madeleine herself to read.
This to show how hard they had tried to find her........and as is revealed in the book, seems to be primarily about Kate herself...........her feelings and needs.
Maybe this diary should get a mention in this thread, because otherwise it could seem that until the creation of the book, Kate McCann had found it difficult to express her emotional responses to issues surrounding Madeleine`s disappearance.
I don`t feel that the book revealed any emotional release which had not been already expressed...........and although the diary was not intended for public view, the act of writing it for her daughter would possibly have served its purpose as "cathartic."
Imo the book was simply a way to reinforce the "abduction" idea to a wider readership and add to the fund.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Estuarine on March 02, 2014, 01:36:06 PM
Yes...........with Kate`s famously " leaked" diary, the writing of which was apparently suggested by her sister-in-law, Ms. P. McCann and intended as a record for Madeleine herself to read.
This to show how hard they had tried to find her........and as is revealed in the book, seems to be primarily about Kate herself...........her feelings and needs.
Maybe this diary should get a mention in this thread, because otherwise it could seem that until the creation of the book, Kate McCann had found it difficult to express her emotional responses to issues surrounding Madeleine`s disappearance.
I don`t feel that the book revealed any emotional release which had not been already expressed...........and although the diary was not intended for public view, the act of writing it for her daughter would possibly have served its purpose as "cathartic."
Imo the book was simply a way to reinforce the "abduction" idea to a wider readership and add to the fund.
And in the opinion of many others one suspects 8(>((
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: icabodcrane on March 02, 2014, 03:38:27 PM
I don`t feel that the book revealed any emotional release which had not been already expressed...........and although the diary was not intended for public view, the act of writing it for her daughter would possibly have served its purpose as "cathartic."
Imo the book was simply a way to reinforce the "abduction" idea to a wider readership and add to the fund.
I agree Carew
I maintain that in psychological terms catharsis is reached by expressing previously withheld or repressed emotions
Kate's book is largely emoted through anger ... an emotion that no-one can claim has been withheld or repressed at all
The emotions that Kate has never expressed are those of guilt and shame
Whether that is because she is repressing those feelings, or because she doesn't actually feel them, we cannot know, but, in any event, they were not expressed in her book
Had she expressed such previously unshown emotions then the book might be viewed as cathartic
She did not, leading me to agree with your view that the motivation for writing it was to reinforce the McCann narrative, and to generate money to cover ever increasing legal fees
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Benice on March 02, 2014, 08:22:51 PM
Yes...........with Kate`s famously " leaked" diary, the writing of which was apparently suggested by her sister-in-law, Ms. P. McCann and intended as a record for Madeleine herself to read.
This to show how hard they had tried to find her........and as is revealed in the book, seems to be primarily about Kate herself...........her feelings and needs.
Maybe this diary should get a mention in this thread, because otherwise it could seem that until the creation of the book, Kate McCann had found it difficult to express her emotional responses to issues surrounding Madeleine`s disappearance.
I don`t feel that the book revealed any emotional release which had not been already expressed...........and although the diary was not intended for public view, the act of writing it for her daughter would possibly have served its purpose as "cathartic."
Imo the book was simply a way to reinforce the "abduction" idea to a wider readership and add to the fund.
Where did you read that Carew? IIRC According to Kates book it was a Counsellor who first suggested that she should keep a journal. I believe she found it very therapeutic - which I am sure many people can relate to.
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Carew on March 02, 2014, 09:49:57 PM
Where did you read that Carew? IIRC According to Kates book it was a Counsellor who first suggested that she should keep a journal. I believe she found it very therapeutic - which I am sure many people can relate to.
It was channel 4 news, Benice. I have tried to copy the article , because half the link was missing when I pasted it. ( I`m not very good skills-wise, but I wouldn`t make a point without an honest reason.)
Kate may have found the journal therapeutic, but that wasn`t the point..........which was that the book "Madeleine" may not have been the only cathartic opportunity she had for her emotional expression.
What's in Kate McCann's diary?
By Lewis Hannam
Updated on 13 September 2007 . Kate McCann's family have shed light on the contents of her diary, as Portuguese authorities seek to examine it.
The diary is among a number of personal items prosecutors want from the parents of missing Madeleine McCann, sources close to the investigation have said.
Portuguese police have passed on a request to the British authorities to take the possessions from the family's home in Rothley, Leicestershire, according to reports.
Philomena McCann, Mr McCann's sister, said she advised her sister-in-law to keep the diary to show Madeleine how much they loved her.
'She's been writing down everything that we've been doing so we can prove to Madeleine that we have worked so hard to try and find her.' Philomena McCann She told The Sun: "I asked Kate to keep this journal because at first the Portuguese police were doing very little.
"A lot of the things that happened were only because of the family contacting the media.
"So I said to Kate that it would be a good idea if someone wrote down, for Madeleine, notes on everything that was happening, because we have to prove to Madeleine how much we looked for her and how much we love her. "That wee girl will be thinking, 'They're not looking for me. My mummy, daddy and my aunties - they don't love me because they can't find me'.
"I was just thinking about how insecure Madeleine would be, so Kate has been keeping that journal faithfully every day.
"She's been writing down everything that we've been doing so we can prove to Madeleine that we have worked so hard to try and find her, that we've put our lives on hold to search for her and show our love for her is unending."
Ms McCann questioned why the Portuguese authorities wanted the diary now, saying: "God knows what they are expecting to find.
"And why didn't they ask for it before? It's just another way to stick the knife in."
Title: Re: Was the book Madeleine written for cathartic or financial reasons?
Post by: Carew on March 02, 2014, 09:53:32 PM
It was channel 4 news, Benice. I have tried to copy the article , because half the link was missing when I pasted it. ( I`m not very good skills-wise, but I wouldn`t make a point without an honest reason.)
Kate may have found the journal therapeutic, but that wasn`t the point..........which was that the book "Madeleine" may not have been the only cathartic opportunity she had for her emotional expression.
What's in Kate McCann's diary?
By Lewis Hannam
Updated on 13 September 2007 . Kate McCann's family have shed light on the contents of her diary, as Portuguese authorities seek to examine it.
The diary is among a number of personal items prosecutors want from the parents of missing Madeleine McCann, sources close to the investigation have said.
Portuguese police have passed on a request to the British authorities to take the possessions from the family's home in Rothley, Leicestershire, according to reports.
Philomena McCann, Mr McCann's sister, said she advised her sister-in-law to keep the diary to show Madeleine how much they loved her.
'She's been writing down everything that we've been doing so we can prove to Madeleine that we have worked so hard to try and find her.' Philomena McCann She told The Sun: "I asked Kate to keep this journal because at first the Portuguese police were doing very little.
"A lot of the things that happened were only because of the family contacting the media.
"So I said to Kate that it would be a good idea if someone wrote down, for Madeleine, notes on everything that was happening, because we have to prove to Madeleine how much we looked for her and how much we love her. "That wee girl will be thinking, 'They're not looking for me. My mummy, daddy and my aunties - they don't love me because they can't find me'.
"I was just thinking about how insecure Madeleine would be, so Kate has been keeping that journal faithfully every day.
"She's been writing down everything that we've been doing so we can prove to Madeleine that we have worked so hard to try and find her, that we've put our lives on hold to search for her and show our love for her is unending."
Ms McCann questioned why the Portuguese authorities wanted the diary now, saying: "God knows what they are expecting to find.
"And why didn't they ask for it before? It's just another way to stick the knife in."
Thanks for that Carew. I presume they both advised her then - as it is something counsellors do advise can be helpful. BTW it's on page 126 of her book - but too much for me type out here.