UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on March 21, 2014, 11:52:04 PM
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The longer this goes on the more I believe Mr Edgar could be right when he declared some time ago that Madeleine might not be far from PdL.
Despite pictures of fair-haired children being taken in places like Morocco and Brussels, encounters of blue-eyed children in gypsy camps in Portugal, Greece and Ireland and claims of sightings on Mediterranean islands and elsewhere, there hasn't been a single verifiable sighting of Madeleine in nearly seven years which in itself is bad news and can only really lead to one conclusion.
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The longer this goes on the more I believe Mr Edgar could be right when he declared some time ago that Madeleine might not be far from PdL.
Very enigmatic,John; do you mean alive and kicking in "the lawless hinterland" (yawn) or the other possibility?
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Very enigmatic,John; do you mean alive and kicking in "the lawless hinterland" (yawn) or the other possibility?
It doesn't take a genius to work out that Maddie is almost certainly deceased and her remains near PDL...but there are other possibilities and one, however remote is that she is still alive. Who can blame her parents for clinging to that faint hope
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It doesn't take a genius to work out that Maddie is almost certainly deceased and her remains near PDL...but there are other possibilities and one, however remote is that she is still alive. Who can blame her parents for clinging to that faint hope
I beg to differ davel.
I have something, which I cant disclose ... and I am not 100% about it
But if I am correcrt she was certainly alive and physically well a couple of years ago ... and nowhere near PdL
Then have we forgotten the barrister who went to the police sometime about aug / sept last year. S/he was dreadfully upset because a friend at a party had disclosed that he had met Madeleine with a man at another party on a Meditteranean island.
And there was something about what this man said that convinced her/him that he was telling the truth. We dont know what that was.
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Not just a living Madeleine, IMO. Even if she's dead, and Amaral continues to lead people to believe that the parents were responsible, they would be less likely to come forward with any clues as to who may have taken her or where her body might be.
One case (whose details I've forgotten) was solved many years after a disappearance by people (family?) clearing out the house of someone who'd recently deceased. They came across suspicious items which they handed to the police. They could just as easily have chucked the items in a skip along with everything else and some bereaved family would never have had closure.
That's it, give them goal posts a shove, no one will notice.
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That's it, give them goal posts a shove, no one will notice.
It's not about changing goal posts: whether she's alive or not, she still deserves to be found or at least what actually happened to her needs to be known.
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I beg to differ davel.
I have something, which I cant disclose ... and I am not 100% about it
But if I am correct she was certainly alive and physically well a couple of years ago ... and nowhere near PdL
Then have we forgotten the barrister who went to the police sometime about aug / sept last year. S/he was dreadfully upset because a friend at a party had disclosed that he had met Madeleine with a man at another party on a Mediterranean island.
And there was something about what this man said that convinced her/him that he was telling the truth. We dont know what that was.
Sadie, just think about what you have just posted for a minute. Do you honestly think someone would take the worlds most sought after child to a party for all to see? Apologies in advance but... (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c022.gif) (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c022.gif) (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c022.gif) @)(++(*
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Maybe it wasn't the kind of 'party' you, I or Sadie would be attending, John...
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Maybe it wasn't the kind of 'party' you, I or Sadie would be attending, John...
Very true but if it had been Madeleine and had been reported as claimed I'm sure we would have heard by now.
About these parties on Mediterranean islands, care to share?
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/shades-animated-animation-shades-smiley-emoticon-000387-medium.gif)
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Sadie, just think about what you have just posted for a minute. Do you honestly think someone would take the worlds most sought after child to a party for all to see? Apologies in advance but... (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c022.gif) (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c022.gif) (http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/c022.gif) @)(++(*
I think it was in another country, little visited by Brits or PTs. Madeleine was virtually unrecogniseable by this time, from the little tot we remember .... and it was felt safe.
About 2 or 3 years ago, John, there were whispers on the internet that Madeleine was out again amongst people. She would not know who she was, she would be quite changed, possibly wearinng contact lenses or dark galsses and she would speak the language like a native.
May I suggest that you think again John. Re-evaluate.
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Maybe it wasn't the kind of 'party' you, I or Sadie would be attending, John...
You mean a Kiddie birthday party sort of thing?
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I think it was in another country, little visited by Brits or PTs. Madeleine was virtually unrecogniseable by this time, from the little tot we remember .... and it was felt safe.
About 2 or 3 years ago, John, there were whispers on the internet that Madeleine was out again amongst people. She would not know who she was, she would be quite changed, possibly wearinng contact lenses or dark galsses and she would speak the language like a native.
May I suggest that you think again John. Re-evaluate.
So she has forgoten her name and all memory of her family & has never mentioned any of them or who she is to anyone ever again.
Possible I suppose, Amnesia from the shock of being abducted or brainwashed by a religious cult.
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So she has forgoten her name and all memory of her family & has never mentioned any of them or who she is to anyone ever again.
Possible I suppose, Amnesia from the shock of being abducted or brainwashed by a religious cult.
Yep, there are people who can erase the memory. A nasty process involving mental cruelty and the multiple splitting of the personality, IIRC, along with drugs to aid the process.
Once done the person can be re-progammed apparently to do as bidden ... and immediately forget what wrong doings they have done under command.
And a child of not yet 4 would not remember much anyway about her childhood, especially if her mind was full of distress. Madeleine appeared to be a highly intelligent little girl. maybe she would remember to an earlier stage that a less intelligent child.
Personally I can only remember back with any certainty to when I first started school at the age of 4. And I only have snatches of memory of that.
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Yep, there are people who can erase the memory. A nasty process involving mental cruelty and the multiple splitting of the personality, IIRC, along with drugs to aid the process.
Once done the person can be re-progammed apparently to do as bidden ... and immediately forget what wrong doings they have done under command.
And a child of not yet 4 would not remember much anyway about her childhood, especially if her mind was full of distress. Madeleine appeared to be a highly intelligent little girl. maybe she would remember to an earlier stage that a less intelligent child.
Personally I can only remember back with any certainty to when I first started school at the age of 4. And I only have snatches of memory of that.
I think you have to give us more information here, sadie. Too general / speculative.
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You mean a Kiddie birthday party sort of thing?
No, I mean a 'party' with sinister goings-on. A close ring of people who would need collectively to keep their dirty secrets.
Can't think of any other situation one would risk bringing Madeleine into.
I do accept that if Madeleine is alive she is most probably unrecognisable - by what process I do not know - but nonetheless, how could a person risk bringing her into a public space?
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Ha!
I remember clearly going to kindergarten and sneaking in to the teachers office with Glenn Burke to have a sneaky strum of her guitar.
I remember they never had real birthday cake, but one made out of a cornflake box.
I remember being six months old and being photographed by a guy who came to the house. I remember what room the photo was taken in, also the toy I am shown holding had a pink front and a blue back, but only the pink shows in the photo.
I remember my embarrasment at being forced to attend kindy with a handkerchief pinned to my dress.
Yep 4 year olds cant remember jack.
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Ha!
I remember clearly going to kindergarten and sneaking in to the teachers office with Glenn Burke to have a sneaky strum of her guitar.
I remember they never had real birthday cake, but one made out of a cornflake box.
I remember being six months old and being photographed by a guy who came to the house. I remember what room the photo was taken in, also the toy I am shown holding had a pink front and a blue back, but only the pink shows in the photo.
I remember my embarrasment at being forced to attend kindy with a handkerchief pinned to my dress.
Yep 4 year olds cant remember jack.
Well you haven't been subjected to mind control
Remarkable memory you have from 6 months old .... Wow !
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You are off again, aren't you Icabod? Cant resist it can you?
Now you have the cites perhaps you will apologise
As if !!
True to form, everyone else is Wrong, Crazed, or Paranoid instead of Team McCann.
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True to form, everyone else is Wrong, Crazed, or Paranoid instead of Team McCann.
I feel sure thta Icabod can speak for himself
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I feel sure thta Icabod can speak for himself
Who said he couldnt?
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Very enigmatic,John; do you mean alive and kicking in "the lawless hinterland" (yawn) or the other possibility?
I fear the signs are not good, 8(8-))
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True to form, everyone else is Wrong, Crazed, or Paranoid instead of Team McCann.
This is true. Glad we agree on that.
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Quote from: Silkywhiskers on March 23, 2014, 02:27:35 AM
True to form, everyone else is Wrong, Crazed, or Paranoid instead of Team McCann.
This is true. Glad we agree on that.
@)(++(* 8@??)(
Touchee Eleanor !
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Quote from: Silkywhiskers on March 23, 2014, 02:27:35 AM
@)(++(* 8@??)(
Touchee Eleanor !
Ah..........Glad to see you so cheerful, ssadie......(Feeling smug, rather than bullied and without a voice at the moment, then?)
Jolly good show!
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No, I mean a 'party' with sinister goings-on. A close ring of people who would need collectively to keep their dirty secrets.
Can't think of any other situation one would risk bringing Madeleine into.
I do accept that if Madeleine is alive she is most probably unrecognisable - by what process I do not know - but nonetheless, how could a person risk bringing her into a public space?
By behaving normally to the outside world. Whatever that creep's name was who had a daughter with Amanda (US case)... who would have suspected an abnormal situation?
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True to form, everyone else is Wrong, Crazed, or Paranoid instead of Team McCann.
You got it one.
Some people seem to enjoy their fantasies though, and that is very sad.
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By behaving normally to the outside world. Whatever that creep's name was who had a daughter with Amanda (US case)... who would have suspected an abnormal situation?
Amanda Berry and Castro......Is that the one?
Really bad! He only lasted a short time in prison where he was sentenced to life.
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You got it one.
Some people seem to enjoy their fantasies though, and that is very sad.
Is it just me, or is the tone of Team McCann disturbing?
Crowing over missed opportunities (the cancelled reconstruction) imagined failures of the dogs, DNA etc -
They seem to be more concerned with being "right" than with one tiny little girl who has been lost.
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Madeleine McCann: more than 50 new leads
More than 50 potential new leads into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann surfaced last night as details of a previously unknown police file were released.
Caroline Gammell in Portimao
7:20AM GMT 03 Mar 2010
Scores of sightings were reported after the Portuguese police formally closed their investigation in July 2008 but the majority were not followed up.
The 2,000 page dossier contains hundreds of witness statements, photographs and unsolved lines of inquiry.
The sightings ranged from Europe to the west coast of the US, Hong Kong and Australasia and were passed on by independent witnesses and international police forces.
Madeleine was three when she vanished from her family’s apartment in the Algarve resort town of Praia da Luz in May 2007.
Her parents Kate and Gerry, both 41, have fought to keep their daughter’s plight in the spotlight, hiring their own private investigators to continue the search.
They only discovered the existence of the Portuguese police file last month during their court battle against Goncalo Amaral, the disgraced detective who tried to publish a book accusing the couple of covering up their daughter’s death.
The extensive dossier was released by the Portuguese authorities in Portimao yesterday after a request by The Daily Telegraph and includes:
:: Information about a British-registered white Mercedes box van which travelled on a ferry from Tarifa to Tangiers to Morocco from Spain with false number plates in the week Madeleine went missing. Its driver could not be traced
:: CCTV footage of a young girl resembling Madeleine which was taken in a supermarket in New Zealand in December 2007.
:: Repeated sightings of a girl who looked like Madeleine in Gent, Kortrijk and Bruges in Belgium in November 2008.
:: Information about a girl similar to Madeleine wearing a pyjama top similar to the one she was wearing when she disappeared who was with an “unkempt” couple in Agua Marina, near Murcia in Spain on May 15, 2007.
:: Reports in October 2008 of a girl matching Madeleine’s description being dragged along a road towards Faro airport on May 3, 2007 – the night she disappeared.
:: An account from lorry driver Michel Guidard who saw how a young girl who looked like Madeleine wearing a dirty yellow jumper and naked from the waist down being held at gunpoint at a motorway toll on the A20 near Paris in August 2008.
:: Photographs from the internet uncovered by a female French detective showing images of sexual abuse which involved a girl resembling Madeleine.
The previously unseen CCTV footage from New Zealand was sent to the Portuguese police by Interpol in Wellington in July 2008, just as they closed their investigation.
A female security guard at a supermarket in Dunedin, on the south island, thought she saw Madeleine on December 6, 2007.
She said the girl and the man holding her hand had British accents. Attempts to identify them failed and the information was passed to the Portuguese.
A hand-written note on the papers in the file said: “This has been checked by PJ and has no relevance to this investigation.”
The McCanns, from Rothley in Leicestershire, are furious that they were not told about the leads at the time and that they were not followed up to their satisfaction.
After successfully blocking the publication of Mr Amaral’s book The Truth of the Lie last month, Mrs McCann said: “There are instances where information which we think is very credible and worthy of information has not been actioned.
“We’re gutted, it’s absolutely shocking and difficult. Some of the information handed in was very credible, it’s heartbreaking to know that it seems to end there.”
Mr McCann was angered by Inspector Ricardo Paiva, their former liaison officer, who was responsible for collating any information that came into the police about Madeleine after the formal Portuguese investigation came to an end.
He said: “Inspector Paiva believes Madeleine is dead. How can he investigate thoroughly if he believes that?
“We know now there is a lot of information just filed away – and that is not acceptable.
“Once the file has been closed, what has actually been done? Next to nothing.”
Isabel Duarte, the couple’s solicitor, asked to see the police file after Inspector Paiva mentioned it during the court case.
“It is a disgrace that none of this information was given to Kate and Gerry. Some of the photos are shockingly similar to Madeleine.
“Every piece was treated the same way – Ricardo Paiva writes on it ‘this is not relevant to the investigation’.
“I said to him ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html
With reference to the early sightings of Madeleine – and I know that it was possible for reported sightings to be for the same day and in different countries and continents – of those which were investigated, how thoroughly was that carried out?
I know that a New Zealand sighting was eliminated using a DNA test.
Does anyone know if tests were done in the sighting in Belgium or did the police just take the gentleman’s word for it that the child was his daughter and her Moroccan nanny.
Even Kate and Gerry McCann could not tell from CCTV footage whether the girl was their long-lost child. Previously they have always known immediately it was not her.
But now Belgian police have said a man has come forward to say the girl is his daughter and that she was out with her nanny.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/fresh-heartache-for-mccanns-as-police-say-belgian-sighting-is-not-madeleine-6874533.html
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And so it starts again.
Mr McCann was angered by Inspector Ricardo Paiva, their former liaison officer, who was responsible for collating any information that came into the police about Madeleine after the formal Portuguese investigation came to an end.
He said: “Inspector Paiva believes Madeleine is dead. How can he investigate thoroughly if he believes that?
“We know now there is a lot of information just filed away – and that is not acceptable.
“Once the file has been closed, what has actually been done? Next to nothing.”
Maybe Gerry should go and suck on his lollipop.
"We were actually trying to understand if it was really a demand for ransom. We were trying to negotiate with that individual who was in Holland. Us Portuguese who were there and the English, we watched it in stupefaction. He was sitting there with a lollipop laughing on the phone and we were all waiting. Completely detached from what was going on and about to happen. Maybe it was his way of reacting to that tension, maybe it's justifiable but to us, we were shocked. We were searching for his daughter, doing our job." (G. Amaral)
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And so it starts again.
Mr McCann was angered by Inspector Ricardo Paiva, their former liaison officer, who was responsible for collating any information that came into the police about Madeleine after the formal Portuguese investigation came to an end.
He said: “Inspector Paiva believes Madeleine is dead. How can he investigate thoroughly if he believes that?
“We know now there is a lot of information just filed away – and that is not acceptable.
“Once the file has been closed, what has actually been done? Next to nothing.”
Maybe Gerry should go and suck on his lollipop.
"We were actually trying to understand if it was really a demand for ransom. We were trying to negotiate with that individual who was in Holland. Us Portuguese who were there and the English, we watched it in stupefaction. He was sitting there with a lollipop laughing on the phone and we were all waiting. Completely detached from what was going on and about to happen. Maybe it was his way of reacting to that tension, maybe it's justifiable but to us, we were shocked. We were searching for his daughter, doing our job." (G. Amaral)
I have looked for independent provenance of Dr Amaral's lollipop statement which I believe is in his book, but can find none.
Did anyone else remark on it?
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You think he invented it?
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You think he invented it?
I would appreciate another verifiable source, after all there were plenty of people present.
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Yes but they were still serving in the police. Amaral resigned so maybe that's why he wasn't giving their names out.
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I would appreciate another verifiable source, after all there were plenty of people present.
So now we're questioning the veracity of a lollipop?
8-)(--)
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So now we're questioning the veracity of a lollipop?
8-)(--)
you know what i dont get british people do NOT show emotion people decribe many british people as cold and its true denial run riff in the uk especally about this case imo
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Someone who loses a child in such circumstances must inevitably go through just about every emotion under the sun. Laughing and sucking on a lollipop Kojak style is better than the alternative imo.
How hard it must have been to endure the emotions relating to a possible discovery only to have them cruelly dashed by hoaxes and con merchants!
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I would appreciate another verifiable source, after all there were plenty of people present.
Indeed. Especially as Amaral never met or spoke to the McCanns and throughout his book he covers that up by the use of the word ...'We'.
He was just as 'astonished' at Kate's reaction when they were called back to the police station to look at a photograph on May 4th. He wasn't there either.
It is more likely IMO that if they were having to wait for a long time in a tense situation that one of the UK policemen tried to ease the tension for Gerry by talking to him about football.
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Or maybe knowing the truth explains their reactions.
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Indeed. Especially as Amaral never met or spoke to the McCanns and throughout his book he covers that up by the use of the word ...'We'.
That is not true Benice ... why do you keep repeating it like a mantra ?
Gerry met Amaral