UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Wonderfulspam on June 06, 2014, 08:21:31 PM
-
All the evidence points toward a trio of drug dealing burglars & 5 ex ocean club employees having squeezed into 5a & murdered Maddie.
They must already be in custody right now, because SY wouldn't just do a silly thing like warn them via mass media that they are onto them now would they.
-
So the Portuguese prosecutors allowed questioning these new 8 suspects just for fun?
-
So the Portuguese prosecutors allowed questioning these new 8 suspects just for fun?
The info about these suspects comes from media and theor foggy sources. SY keep their pieholes firmly shut.
-
So the Portuguese prosecutors allowed questioning these new 8 suspects just for fun?
Since when were the "new 8 suspects" questioned?
SY have told us, they haven't questioned anybody.
But apparently, you know different, so please link this latest "fact".
-
So the Portuguese prosecutors allowed questioning these new 8 suspects just for fun?
Do you not find it even slightly odd, that the burglary 3 & the 5 OC workers, who between them all murdered Maddie, have been forewarned by mass media that the cops are gonna get 'em?
-
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been granted permission to question eight key suspects.
Police identified the local men after they were traced from phone records linking them to Praia da Luz on the night the missing youngster was last seen alive.
The suspects, three of whom are convicted drug dealers, are believed to have been former employees at the Ocean Club resort.
Analysis of phone data suggests they were in close contact with each other in the hours that followed Madeleine's abduction.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-question-eight-key-suspects-portugal-1451655?
(http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/419577/police-believe-these-two-portugese-men-were-involved-charity-collection-scam-time-madeleine.jpg?w=720&h=405&l=50&t=50)
-
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been granted permission to question eight key suspects.
Police identified the local men after they were traced from phone records linking them to Praia da Luz on the night the missing youngster was last seen alive.
The suspects, three of whom are convicted drug dealers, are believed to have been former employees at the Ocean Club resort.
Analysis of phone data suggests they were in close contact with each other in the hours that followed Madeleine's abduction.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-question-eight-key-suspects-portugal-1451655
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I believe the original source was Portuguese TV RTP.
Should you require more links, please feel free to ask me._
-
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been granted permission to question eight key suspects.
Police identified the local men after they were traced from phone records linking them to Praia da Luz on the night the missing youngster was last seen alive.
The suspects, three of whom are convicted drug dealers, are believed to have been former employees at the Ocean Club resort.
Analysis of phone data suggests they were in close contact with each other in the hours that followed Madeleine's abduction.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-question-eight-key-suspects-portugal-1451655
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I believe the original source was Portuguese TV RTP.
Should you require more links, please feel free to ask me._
[/quote]
Believed to be?
Believed by whom, exactly?
-
Do you not find it slightly strange, that these suspects have been given an advanced warning of their impending arrests?
-
Do you not find it slightly strange, that these suspects have been given an advanced warning of their impending arrests?
not at all
-
not at all
Must just be me. Oh well, never mind.
-
I can provide you with this source too - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-question-eight-key-suspects-portugal-1451655
It does not matter for me how many links you'll provide. What is written in these articles does not come from the official statements of the SY, as the SY does not talk to the media right now. When I hear it straight from the mouth of the SY I will believe it.
-
Must just be me. Oh well, never mind.
yes its just you...makes absolute sense to me and SY
they cant hide...where are they going to go
-
yes its just you...makes absolute sense to me and SY
I'd have thought a series of unannounced dawn raids would be a better idea, but then I'm not a policeman.
I don't think I'm cut out for it, not with those kind of hairbrained ideas.
-
I'd have thought a series of unannounced dawn raids would be a better idea, but then I'm not a policeman.
Espeially that the suspects are supposedly the professional criminalists. For them obtaining fake documents and vanishing somewhere in the world should be a piece of cake. So why to announce that the police wants them? To make their escape easier?
-
I'd have thought a series of unannounced dawn raids would be a better idea, but then I'm not a policeman.
I don't think I'm cut out for it, not with those kind of hairbrained ideas.
perhaps if ILORS were not involved they could have done that
-
perhaps if ILORS were not involved they could have done that
Did I miss something and the ILORS require announcing it to the general public? >@@(*&)
-
Espeially that the suspect are supposedly the professional criminalists. For them obtaining fake documents and vanishing somewhere in the world should be a piece of cake. So why to announce that the police wants them? To make their escape easier?
They left town weeks ago...all 38 of them...?
-
Espeially that the suspects are supposedly the professional criminalists. For them obtaining fake documents and vanishing somewhere in the world should be a piece of cake. So why to announce that the police wants them? To make their escape easier?
so they have left their families and children and will never return...think again
-
Did I miss something and the ILORS require announcing it to the general public? >@@(*&)
The 3 burglars story has being doing the rounds for several weeks now. Perhaps the gentlemen in question are presently incarcerated & unable to do a runner.
-
The 3 burglars story has being doing the rounds for several weeks now. Perhaps the gentlemen in question are presently incarcerated & unable to do a runner.
So.
The reason they haven't been interviewed yet is...................................???
-
So.
The reason they haven't been interviewed yet is...................................???
the Portuguese haven't allowed it
-
So.
The reason they haven't been interviewed yet is...................................???
As previously posted.
Who are we to question the methodology of the Met?
-
All the evidence points toward a trio of drug dealing burglars & 5 ex ocean club employees having squeezed into 5a & murdered Maddie.
They must already be in custody right now, because SY wouldn't just do a silly thing like warn them via mass media that they are onto them now would they.
Scotland Yard have stated frequently that they refuse to give an ongoing commentary.
This is because they do not wish to fall foul of Portuguese secrecy laws.
Portuguese TV and press do not seem to be employing the same restraint.
-
Scotland Yard have stated frequently that they refuse to give an ongoing commentary.
This is because they do not wish to fall foul of Portuguese secrecy laws.
Portuguese TV and press do not seem to be employing the same restraint.
Oh I see, so it's the PJ who have given the burglars a heads up.
It all makes sense now, thanks.
-
They left town weeks ago...all 38 of them...?
At least one individual did. The question is was he ill or was he a 'person of interest'?
-
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been granted permission to question eight key suspects.
Police identified the local men after they were traced from phone records linking them to Praia da Luz on the night the missing youngster was last seen alive.
The suspects, three of whom are convicted drug dealers, are believed to have been former employees at the Ocean Club resort.
Analysis of phone data suggests they were in close contact with each other in the hours that followed Madeleine's abduction.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-question-eight-key-suspects-portugal-1451655
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I believe the original source was Portuguese TV RTP.
Should you require more links, please feel free to ask me._
The title '...8 key suspects' might have more than one significant meaning.
-
The title '...8 key suspects' might have more than one significant meaning.
Wasn't it the media that invented "key suspects" and "imminent arrests"?
There are people that the police would like to interview. They are persons of interest in a generic sense. For all anyone knows, some could be a granny or a child at the time who may simply have some information to offer.
-
Press reports indicate that SY have found 3 of these peeps communicated with each other by phone both before and after the alarm. For two short periods that night there is in the files complete traffic of communication between all mobiles where both are using a PDL mast. By combining the two sets of data, one in table form, the other in diagram form, it is possible using only the published periods to find an interconnected group of 3 mobiles.
-
The title '...8 key suspects' might have more than one significant meaning.
They dont need portuguese permission to question the tapas
-
Look what the BBC is saying.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27745593 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27745593)
Portuguese police sources told the BBC that no questioning of suspects would take place in the coming week.
They also said all interviews would be conducted by Portuguese police. British police would be allowed to sit in during the questioning, but they would not be allowed to intervene at any stage, they said.
So it seems that someone will be questioned, but not now, and not by SY.
-
Do you not find it slightly strange, that these suspects have been given an advanced warning of their impending arrests?
Not really. The police release information regularly about suspects that they wish to question in connection with serious crimes. Ever watched Crimewatch? Perhaps the precise whereabouts of the people they wish to interview is unknown at this present time?
-
Not really. The police release information regularly about suspects that they wish to question in connection with serious crimes. Ever watched Crimewatch? Perhaps the precise whereabouts of the people they wish to interview is unknown at this present time?
And after such an info in the press they certainly will be much easier to find. Yupppp.
-
And after such an info in the press they certainly will be much easier to find. Yupppp.
That tends to be the case yes, when appeals are put out to locate suspects.
-
They dont need portuguese permission to question the tapas
Just an apparent reluctance - as far as we know.
-
Just an apparent reluctance - as far as we know.
Which isn't very much.
-
So true.
-
They dont need portuguese permission to question the tapas
Common sense prevails, yes that's correct.
But seperate to that, and looking at other interviews, not requiring portuguese permission:
I doubt that Mr Redwood would say:
"Oh it's an important case, but I will spend millions of pounds on it without even bothering to interview the 9 most important witnesses".
-
Just an apparent reluctance - as far as we know.
we don't know
-
IMO anyone, who proposes that Mr Redwood has not already interviewed in depth all the 9 most important witnesses, is being a bit unrealistic.
-
They dont need portuguese permission to question the tapas
I've never understood the logic of the one or two posters who have been asserting the contrary.
-
Maybe the whereabouts of these so called "key suspects" (well we have heard it all before) is well known to the police and they can be picked up anytime the jolly old rozzers wish.
Which suggests, among lots of other things of course, they are not of prime importance at all if the interview date is so open ended, or they are Mr Bigs and banged up.
Then on the other hand...
could be this....could be that...might be this ...might be that...which one do you think it is
-
IMO anyone, who proposes that Mr Redwood has not already interviewed in depth all the 9 most important witnesses, is being a bit unrealistic.
That is an assumption, and no more.
..and the channel 5 program showed the unreliabilty of tanner with Mr. No Face.
-
That is an assumption, and no more.
..and the channel 5 program showed the unreliabilty of tanner with Mr. No Face.
its more than an assumption its a certainty....if you watched the channel 5 program they made a point how unreliable identification was in general...not just tannner
-
its more than an assumption its a certainty....if you watched the channel 5 program they made a point how unreliable identification was in general...not just tannner
We know.
They found FA, as expected.
-
They dont need portuguese permission to question the tapas
I believe you have discovered a third significant meaning Dave...I think MM was referring to the "key".
I notice that Correio da Manhā is reporting the telephone links by these drug dealers as significant yet Amaral reported that the only significant calls made the evening Madeleine disappeared were made by Murat. Could this be a case of the PJ protecting informers... and along comes Redwood and spoils it all.
-
I believe you have discovered a third significant meaning Dave...I think MM was referring to the "key".
I notice that Correio da Manhā is reporting the telephone links by these drug dealers as significant yet Amaral reported that the only significant calls made the evening Madeleine disappeared were made by Murat. Could this be a case of the PJ protecting informers... and along comes Redwood and spoils it all.
I'm surprised nobody noticed this little tidbit at the end of the article translated by Joana Morais:
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html)
The PJ, meanwhile, has discarded Euclides Monteiro as primary suspect, and believes now, that the man who may have taken Madeleine, was a foreigner that has committed an isolated crime, at a time when he was spending his holidays in Portugal.
So either the PJ believes that Maddie was simultaneously abducted by the eight local lowlives and by the foreign holidaymaker or...
Or their real suspect is said holidaymaker and the eight locals are just the persons of interest with potentially important knowledge.
-
I'm surprised nobody noticed this little tidbit at the end of the article translated by Joana Morais:
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html)
The PJ, meanwhile, has discarded Euclides Monteiro as primary suspect, and believes now, that the man who may have taken Madeleine, was a foreigner that has committed an isolated crime, at a time when he was spending his holidays in Portugal.
Thankyou, I had missed that, and it is good of you to point it out.
-
I notice that Correio da Manhā is reporting the telephone links by these drug dealers as significant yet Amaral reported that the only significant calls made the evening Madeleine disappeared were made by Murat. Could this be a case of the PJ protecting informers... and along comes Redwood and spoils it all.
It could simply be that SY had more data to work with than the PJ, or just decided to broaden their search when it came to the cellphone activity in the area.
I'm surprised nobody noticed this little tidbit at the end of the article translated by Joana Morais:
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html)
The PJ, meanwhile, has discarded Euclides Monteiro as primary suspect, and believes now, that the man who may have taken Madeleine, was a foreigner that has committed an isolated crime, at a time when he was spending his holidays in Portugal.
So either the PJ believes that Maddie was simultaneously abducted by the eight local lowlives and by the foreign holidaymaker or...
Or their real suspect is said holidaymaker and the eight locals are just the persons of interest with potentially important knowledge.
The interpretation that I made of that information is that the PJ is only interviewing/questioning those eight local "lowlifes" because of the SY investigation and their request. The fact that it came out that the PJ "believes now, that the man who may have taken Madeleine, was a foreigner that has committed an isolated crime, at a time when he was spending his holidays in Portugal," shows how the investigations of the two police forces are heading in different directions.
Also, we can't be sure that SY believes completely that those three/eight people are responsible for Madeline McCain's disappearance or if they are just questioning them as possible witnesses.
Cheers,
-
From what I have read recently in both the British Press and the Portuguese Press the PJ and SY are not only not on the same page but are not even on the same book.
-
I'm surprised nobody noticed this little tidbit at the end of the article translated by Joana Morais:
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/dogs-geo-radar-and-probes-used-to.html)
The PJ, meanwhile, has discarded Euclides Monteiro as primary suspect, and believes now, that the man who may have taken Madeleine, was a foreigner that has committed an isolated crime, at a time when he was spending his holidays in Portugal.
So either the PJ believes that Maddie was simultaneously abducted by the eight local lowlives and by the foreign holidaymaker or...
Or their real suspect is said holidaymaker and the eight locals are just the persons of interest with potentially important knowledge.
A holidaymaker could indeed be involved, but I don't see how the PJ has come to that conclusion if they haven't yet interviewed the eight POIs. Is this an official stance, or some cop thinking out loud again?
I'm not aware that they have ruled out a possible connection with whoever assaulted the children in those other cases.
-
I think they are working to specific information and they are tying up all the loose ends in the process.
Snip from Mail article
Search for Madeleine McCann to move to new site around water treatment plant linked to suspect
Officers due to start scouring area near Praia da Luz resort on Wednesday
Police will focus on area by a small water sub-station, farmhouse and well
Heroin addict Euclides Monteiro working at water and sewage plant in Lagos
It was four miles from Ocean Club where Madeleine was staying with parents
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651846/Search-Madeleine-McCann-new-site-hard-water-treatment-plant-linked-suspect.html#ixzz341zRQG9z
-
Suspects ???
or should it say, persons of interest ?
-
Suspects ???
or should it say, persons of interest ?
Personally I prefer persons of interest as it's a more neutral term for arguido.
Police also confirmed all the suspects still live in Portugal and that interviews would take place at either of the two Algarve police stations, Faro or Portimão, conducted by Portuguese detectives with their British counterparts allowed to sit in but not intervene.
Those police want to talk to will be immediately constituted as arguidos, a Portuguese term for someone who is a suspect, which garnered infamy when Madeline's parents, along with a British expatriate called Robert Murat, were given the status by Portuguese authorities. All three were cleared by a prosecutor in 2008.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-police
-
So, The McCanns were Suspects, but these 8 people will just be Persons of Interest. Funny how the goal posts change.
-
Well The Grauniad and Smellygraph seem to be at their customary churnalism trick of retreading what The Mirror print on this topic. If there were a crime it was committed on Portuguese soil so one could argue that the only view that counts is that of the Portuguese judiciary.
It is nonetheless baffling that there can be so many permutations.
I don’t find it at all baffling that there are so many permutations.
Then I have never gone with the absolute that it was the parents wot dunnit, preferring instead that all avenues are investigated.
As perhaps the most investigated couple in history with their every action and statement subject to endless conjecture and speculation, I think it is time attention was directed to those who were in the area at the time who apparently have records for entering holiday makers homes for nefarious purpose. ie the 'suspects' who will be questioned when this phase has been concluded.
-
So, The McCanns were Suspects, but these 8 people will just be Persons of Interest. Funny how the goal posts change.
There is no proven link between these people and the case.
That isn't true of the mccanns.
-
There is no proven link between these people and the case.
That isn't true of the mccanns.
Care to share?
-
I think they are working to specific information and they are tying up all the loose ends in the process.
Snip from Mail article
Search for Madeleine McCann to move to new site around water treatment plant linked to suspect
Officers due to start scouring area near Praia da Luz resort on Wednesday
Police will focus on area by a small water sub-station, farmhouse and well
Heroin addict Euclides Monteiro working at water and sewage plant in Lagos
It was four miles from Ocean Club where Madeleine was staying with parents
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651846/Search-Madeleine-McCann-new-site-hard-water-treatment-plant-linked-suspect.html#ixzz341zRQG9z
Can it really be the case that all these digs are centred on the, conveniently dead, black man ?
They're not actually trying to pin it on him are they ?
-
I'm sure they will do their best, but a dead man won't do.
Without a conviction there will never be a true resolution.
-
Press reports indicate that SY have found 3 of these peeps communicated with each other by phone both before and after the alarm. For two short periods that night there is in the files complete traffic of communication between all mobiles where both are using a PDL mast. By combining the two sets of data, one in table form, the other in diagram form, it is possible using only the published periods to find an interconnected group of 3 mobiles.
I believe there are at least 2 masts in PDL. I researched this and found at least 2.
-
Can it really be the case that all these digs are centred on the, conveniently dead, black man ?
They're not actually trying to pin it on him are they ?
if they find maddie's remains there...what would you think
-
From what I have read recently in both the British Press and the Portuguese Press the PJ and SY are not only not on the same page but are not even on the same book.
Bring Amaral back @)(++(* They can't be tracking a black Smithman 8-)(--)
-
what if you felt the evidence was weak ...would you still accept the conviction of the abductor
Miscarriages of justice do occur, but I feel that one has to respect the decision of the Court.
If evidence was weak, then a conviction might not occur, or might well be overturned on appeal.
-
Miscarriages of justice do occur, but I feel that one has to respect the decision of the Court.
If evidence was weak, then a conviction might not occur, or might well be overturned on appeal.
no...convictions occur on weak evidence
-
no...convictions occur on weak evidence
I know - which is why I said might. So much depends upon the persuasive skills of the lawyers, at least when a jury is involved.
-
Ah! you have been reading The Mirror again!
A vast improvement on Correia de Manaha ...
-
Can it really be the case that all these digs are centred on the, conveniently dead, black man ?
They're not actually trying to pin it on him are they ?
No idea. Probably tabloid rubbish as usual.
Is anyone seriously suggesting that a guy who apparently died in 2009 is on the shortlist of people to be interviewed?
-
Having just edited this thread, two things are noted.
* It states at the bottom of the Guardian article that the McCanns were cleared by the Portuguese when their arguido status was lifted. That is an inaccurate representation of the situation.
The facts are that the nature of the crime was undetermined. Unknown crime unknown perpetrator.
It was not the function of the AG to clear anyone, that is the job of a court and properly directed jury. Consequently, although the arguido status was lifted this has no relevance to guilt or innocence.
* My second observation relates to the three burglars who apparently were in telephone contact with each other the night that Madeleine disappeared. I find it very very hard to believe that three men who were burglars shared a predisposition to paedophilia. It just doesn't happen. These perps usually operate on their own due to the nature of the crime. I think SY are way off on this one.
-
Having just edited this thread, two things are noted.
* It states at the bottom of the Guardian article that the McCanns were cleared by the Portuguese when their arguido status was lifted. That is an inaccurate representation of the situation.
The facts are that the nature of the crime was undetermined. Unknown crime unknown perpetrator.
It was not the function of the AG to clear anyone, that is the job of a court and properly directed jury. Consequently, although the arguido status was lifted this has no relevance to guilt or innocence.
* My second observation relates to the three burglars who apparently were in telephone contact with each other the night that Madeleine disappeared. I find it very very hard to believe that three men who were burglars shared a predisposition to paedophilia. It just doesn't happen. These perps usually operate on their own due to the nature of the crime. I think SY are way off on this one.
I thought that one theory they were working on was an interrupted burglary that ended in the death or abduction of Madeleine, not that all three burglars were also paedophiles? Though it's not beyond the realms of possibility that paedophiles would work together to hunt their prey.
-
I thought that one theory they were working on was an interrupted burglary that ended in the death or abduction of Madeleine, not that all three burglars were also paedophiles? Though it's not beyond the realms of possibility that paedophiles would work together to hunt their prey.
That is called clutching at straws.
-
Interrupted burglary is a good line to investigate IMO.
But what is the first possible stage at which a burglary might be interrupted?
Why assume the burglar gets as far as even entering?
-
Interrupted burglary is a good line to investigate IMO.
But what is the first possible stage at which a burglary might be interrupted?
Why assume the burglar gets as far as even entering?
Except of course that there is no evidence of burglary.
'NOTHING OF VALUE WAS TAKEN FROM THE APARTMENT'.
-
Except of course that there is no evidence of burglary.
'NOTHING OF VALUE WAS TAKEN FROM THE APARTMENT'.
You can see at the pictures, that the apartment was not even searched by th hypothetical burglar.
-
You can see at the pictures, that the apartment was not even searched by th hypothetical burglar.
seems like SY are on the wrong track then
-
seems like SY are on the wrong track then
Seems we don't know what track SY follows. They did not confirm anything officially, did they?
-
Seems we don't know what track SY follows. They did not confirm anything officially, did they?
We are told they are due to be questioned
-
Except of course that there is no evidence of burglary.
'NOTHING OF VALUE WAS TAKEN FROM THE APARTMENT'.
That means nothing. Maybe they were disturbed, held Madeleine. After having an accidental murder no burglar would remember or be keen to take any items.
Or imagine they were surprised with the children in there and Madeleine recognising them..
-
That means nothing. Maybe they were disturbed, held Madeleine. After having an accidental murder no burglar would remember or be keen to take any items.
But he would open the window for no apparent reason & then leave with Maddies body via the front door, locking it behind him.
-
But he would open the window for no apparent reason & then leave with Maddies body via the front door, locking it behind him.
he may well have entered through the window
-
That means nothing. Maybe they were disturbed, held Madeleine. After having an accidental murder no burglar would remember or be keen to take any items.
Not very probable scenario. The burglar would have to bump into Maddie straight at the door, as there was no trace of any ransacking done.
Or imagine they were surprised with the children in there and Madeleine recognising them..
If he observed the routines of the family or if he was working in the Ocean Club, he would know that there were the children in the flat. And if he was a person known to the McCanns or their children, he would have to be insane, to attempt a burglary not being sure if there was someone in the apartment.
-
he may well have entered through the window
Why? , he had a key.
-
That means nothing. Maybe they were disturbed, held Madeleine. After having an accidental murder no burglar would remember or be keen to take any items.
Or imagine they were surprised with the children in there and Madeleine recognising them..
You have any evidence for this speculation at all ?
-
That is called clutching at straws.
Is it incorrect to say that one theory SY are pursuing is that of a burglary gone wrong in Apt 5a? Is it wrong to suggest that sometimes paedophiles work together when commiting their crimes?
-
Is it incorrect to say that one theory SY are pursuing is that of a burglary gone wrong in Apt 5a? Is it wrong to suggest that sometimes paedophiles work together when commiting their crimes?
What evidence is there of any connection whatsoever ?
-
What evidence is there of any connection whatsoever ?
Could you answer my questions first please?
-
Why? , he had a key.
@)(++(* Some people will believe anything when the truth is staring right at them. He had a key but opened a window facing the car park 8-)(--) An abductor/burglar definitely didn't have a key and he definitely didn't pass through that window.
-
Having just edited this thread, two things are noted.
* It states at the bottom of the Guardian article that the McCanns were cleared by the Portuguese when their arguido status was lifted. That is an inaccurate representation of the situation.
The facts are that the nature of the crime was undetermined. Unknown crime unknown perpetrator.
It was not the function of the AG to clear anyone, that is the job of a court and properly directed jury. Consequently, although the arguido status was lifted this has no relevance to guilt or innocence.
* My second observation relates to the three burglars who apparently were in telephone contact with each other the night that Madeleine disappeared. I find it very very hard to believe that three men who were burglars shared a predisposition to paedophilia. It just doesn't happen. These perps usually operate on their own due to the nature of the crime. I think SY are way off on this one.
Who says that three burglars did share such a predisposition? You could be conflating what's reported in the media via groundhog-day dodgy leaks with the leads that SY are actually investigating, some of which may be separate lines of inquiry, or may simply have potential connections.
-
Who says that three burglars did share such a predisposition? You could be conflating what's reported in the media via groundhog-day dodgy leaks with the leads that SY are actually investigating, some of which may be separate lines of inquiry, or may simply have potential connections.
Surely it's absolutely ridiculous to start digging for a body if you haven't yet questioned your main POI ?
-
Surely it's absolutely ridiculous to start digging for a body if you haven't yet questioned your main POI ?
I agree Faithlilly
What is the point in digging up PDL only to find out later that the person (s) of interest are actually of no interest whatsoever to the investigation ?
Cart before the horse
-
I agree Faithlilly
What is the point in digging up PDL only to find out later that the person (s) of interest are actually of no interest whatsoever to the investigation ?
Cart before the horse
Maybe they are hoping to find some evidence to plant 8(0(*
-
Surely it's absolutely ridiculous to start digging for a body if you haven't yet questioned your main POI ?
Why?
-
Why?
You need to be tracking the right person. No good going to a campsite if you have no proof that Smithman was there. It is ridiculous to think they're tracking other possible suspects in the area using their phone for buying and selling drugs. One person was seen carrying the child away on foot not 3.
-
I agree Faithlilly
What is the point in digging up PDL only to find out later that the person (s) of interest are actually of no interest whatsoever to the investigation ?
Cart before the horse
Permission was only granted to question people in the last few days.
IMO the Met went with what they had permission to do ~ not necessarily in the order they might have wished.
-
Permission was only granted to question people in the last few days.
IMO the Met went with what they had permission to do ~ not necessarily in the order they might have wished.
Nonsense. With the small fortune that is being spent on the dig I'm sure SY would have waited until they had all the information they could possibly have in order to target the right areas to search. If, as been reported, they are looking for a body then there really sing any need to rush, is there ?
-
Nonsense. With the small fortune that is being spent on the dig I'm sure SY would have waited until they had all the information they could possibly have in order to target the right areas to search. If, as been reported, they are looking for a body then there really sing any need to rush, is there ?
I think you tend to underestimate and devalue the work of two professional policing bodies.
In the absence of an official statement, no-one knows exactly why the Met were digging and neither does anyone know why they chose the particular areas to be searched.
Permission was granted to search ~ this they are doing.
Now that permission has been granted for the PJ to interview on their behalf ~ this they will do.
No-one has said officially that they are looking for a body, I for one am relieved that so far one has not been found.
Your statement that there is no "need to rush” is IMO a tad insensitive.
-
I think you tend to underestimate and devalue the work of two professional policing bodies.
In the absence of an official statement, no-one knows exactly why the Met were digging and neither does anyone know why they chose the particular areas to be searched.
Permission was granted to search ~ this they are doing.
Now that permission has been granted for the PJ to interview on their behalf ~ this they will do.
No-one has said officially that they are looking for a body, I for one am relieved that so far one has not been found.
Your statement that there is no "need to rush” is IMO a tad insensitive.
Not insensitive, realistic.
Why do you think they are digging Brietta ?
-
Not insensitive, realistic.
Why do you think they are digging Brietta ?
And using cadaver dogs?
-
Gonçalo Amaral:
'Well, I heard an earlier version where they were digging but still maintained the hope that she is alive, so they are looking for a hole where the child is living, so there is some confusion here, also from the British police. But in fact the theory that the child is dead and that it died that night in that apartment exists since that time, since September of 2007, and it was a conviction both from the Portuguese police and the British police that worked on the case. So it’s not something new.
-
Not insensitive, realistic.
Why do you think they are digging Brietta ?
That is one area which the air surveys and detective work showed to be worthy of being looked at closely.
It now seems to have been eliminated.
We shall just have to wait and see what information is returned from the next two designated and approved areas.
By the time that has been completed they will be able to attend the interviews with the persons of interest for which approval has just been allowed.
Why do I think they were digging? ~ just doing their jobs, and bearing in mind that they are in a foreign jurisdiction, perhaps not quite in the order they would wish or as they would conduct business at home.
They have a job to do and they have demonstrated they are undoubtedly going to do it as best they can.
-
That is one area which the air surveys and detective work showed to be worthy of being looked at closely.
It now seems to have been eliminated.
We shall just have to wait and see what information is returned from the next two designated and approved areas.
By the time that has been completed they will be able to attend the interviews with the persons of interest for which approval has just been allowed.
Why do I think they were digging? ~ just doing their jobs, and bearing in mind that they are in a foreign jurisdiction, perhaps not quite in the order they would wish or as they would conduct business at home.
They have a job to do and they have demonstrated they are undoubtedly going to do it as best they can.
Just doing their job ? Could you expand please Brietta ? Do you really have no thoughts on what SY may be looking for ?
-
Gonçalo Amaral:
'Well, I heard an earlier version where they were digging but still maintained the hope that she is alive, so they are looking for a hole where the child is living, so there is some confusion here, also from the British police. But in fact the theory that the child is dead and that it died that night in that apartment exists since that time, since September of 2007, and it was a conviction both from the Portuguese police and the British police that worked on the case. So it’s not something new.
And since even after these searches there is no proof yet that she has died she might still be alive.
-
And since even after these searches there is no proof yet that she has died she might still be alive.
There's no denying that.
Do you envisge her living with a paedophile, or have you some other fantasy?
-
Surely it's absolutely ridiculous to start digging for a body if you haven't yet questioned your main POI ?
What if your main POI can no longer be questioned...??
-
What if your main POI can no longer be questioned...??
Then they are almost certainly on a hiding to nothing as regards a satisfactory conclusion as they can never bring him to trial - assuming that he was guilty, of course.
-
Then they are almost certainly on a hiding to nothing as regards a satisfactory conclusion as they can never bring him to trial - assuming that he was guilty, of course.
The police don't stop trying to solve a crime just because the main suspect is dead, nor should they stop trying to find the child, alive or dead.
-
The police don't stop trying to solve a crime just because the main suspect is dead, nor should they stop trying to find the child, alive or dead.
Did I suggest they should?
-
The police don't stop trying to solve a crime just because the main suspect is dead, nor should they stop trying to find the child, alive or dead.
Smithman ain't dead. He alive and kicking at cops very soon. They are interviewing drug dealers on the street now to see if he was seen that night.
-
There's no denying that.
Do you envisge her living with a paedophile, or have you some other fantasy?
Fantasy? I wouldn't make conclusions. There is no proof she is dead, therefore she might as well be alive.
-
Fantasy? I wouldn't make conclusions. There is no proof she is dead, therefore she might as well be alive.
Would you care to hazard an opinion regarding her likely circumstances?
-
Would you care to hazard an opinion regarding her likely circumstances?
What I am trying to say is that in this case ( and in any other) you cannot make firm conclusions.
I tend to trust physical evidence more than any 'theory'.
There is no proof anyone died in that apartment.
She might have recognised the intruder who might have had been working there and performing a role of a good law abiding citizen. She even might have been taken for order by telling a drug user 'give us a child, we give you drugs'.. or if she accidentally died in that apartment IMO it is impossible that the cadaver scent was developed there.
The police has to work by eliminating and this is exactly what they do.. So one week we hear it is the ex OC workers. the other week we hear other news, IMO this is just the police working on certain clues and eliminating them.
What they definitely have are the phone records. So they might have a handful of people in mind who happen to match the phone masts areas.
If any of them left the area the day after this would be the most alarming. Like this tractorman who was reportedly signed off work in the following days.. this is why they suspect him.. etc etc..
-
What I am trying to say is that in this case ( and in any other) you cannot make firm conclusions.
I tend to trust physical evidence more than any 'theory'.
There is no proof anyone died in that apartment.
She might have recognised the intruder who might have had been working there and performing a role of a good law abiding citizen. She even might have been taken for order by telling a drug user 'give us a child, we give you drugs'.. or if she accidentally died in that apartment IMO it is impossible that the cadaver scent was developed there.
The police has to work by eliminating and this is exactly what they do.. So one week we hear it is the ex OC workers. the other week we hear other news, IMO this is just the police working on certain clues and eliminating them.
What they definitely have are the phone records. So they might have a handful of people in mind who happen to match the phone masts areas.
If any of them left the area the day after this would be the most alarming. Like this tractorman who was reportedly signed off work in the following day.. this is why they suspect him.. etc etc..
That's all speculation and no more.
-
What I am trying to say is that in this case ( and in any other) you cannot make firm conclusions.
I tend to trust physical evidence more than any 'theory'.
There is no proof anyone died in that apartment.
She might have recognised the intruder who might have had been working there and performing a role of a good law abiding citizen. She even might have been taken for order by telling a drug user 'give us a child, we give you drugs'.. or if she accidentally died in that apartment IMO it is impossible that the cadaver scent was developed there.
The police has to work by eliminating and this is exactly what they do.. So one week we hear it is the ex OC workers. the other week we hear other news, IMO this is just the police working on certain clues and eliminating them.
What they definitely have are the phone records. So they might have a handful of people in mind who happen to match the phone masts areas.
If any of them left the area the day after this would be the most alarming. Like this tractorman who was reportedly signed off work in the following days.. this is why they suspect him.. etc etc..
So, you think she is still alive, but are unwilling to consider what sort of existence she may be living. OK.
-
What I am trying to say is that in this case ( and in any other) you cannot make firm conclusions.
I tend to trust physical evidence more than any 'theory'.
There is no proof anyone died in that apartment.
She might have recognised the intruder who might have had been working there and performing a role of a good law abiding citizen.
And was dumb enough to try and burgle the apartment without checking first if it was empty. What should be easy peasy for him if he worked in the Ocean Club.
She even might have been taken for order by telling a drug user 'give us a child, we give you drugs'
Drug addicts are not the most reliable workers and they are not known from being exceptionally secretive and non-talkative, so again, a very dumb paedophile at work. And It's hard to imagine anyone high or craving , who manages to steal a child from a darkened apartment, leaving totally no trace.
-
Did I suggest they should?
No, you seemed to intimate that because the protagonist may be dead that there could be no satisfactory outcome, hence the police are wasting their time. If I misunderstood your meaning I stand corrected and apologise most profusely.
-
^^^^^^^
This would be dismissing the possibilities before checking them up.. This is exactly what happened a lot in this case and IMO this is why this case hasn't been solved.
Metodically checking up everything bit by bit is what is needed.
The have the phone data.. they know who was there..
-
Well why don't you give a large voluntary donation to the search ?
What? You really are fond of the non-sequitur aren't you?
-
^^^^^^^
This would be dismissing the possibilities before checking them up.. This is exactly what happened a lot in this case and IMO this is why this case hasn't been solved.
Metodically checking up everything bit by bit is what is needed.
The have the phone data.. they know who was there..
They know which phones numbers were in and around PDL, but not necessarily identities, nor positions, with any accuracy.
-
They know which phones numbers were in and around PDL, but not necessarily identities, nor positions, with any accuracy.
I think they have more sophisticated data analysing methods.
For example it is possible that Smiths sighting area is covered by different mast to 5A area. If it was then bingo..
-
I think they have more sophisticated data analysing methods.
For example it is possible that Smiths sighting area is covered by different mast to 5A area. If it was then bingo..
It would all depend on how many masts there were at that time and whether the raw data is able to provide relevant information.
-
It would all depend on how many masts there were at that time and whether the raw data is able to provide relevant information.
I checked it out, I found at least two masts. Now the question is where they are..
The thing that is quite curious is mention that 3 suspects SY wanted to question are identified from the phone data..
Then the PJ added 5 more to the list.
They obviously have reasons to suspect them.. and now what they are looking for is more info in connection with these people..
-
So is this your new strategy , to get report people for the very things you do to others ?
I asked you a question and you were unable to reply, so out came the quip in latin.
Seen that before. >@@(*&)
You asked me a question that was completely unrelated to what I wrote before. Hence the use of the term non-sequitur. I will answer questions related to my posts, not questions designed to deflect or de-rail.
-
You asked me a question that was completely unrelated to what I wrote before. Hence the use of the term non-sequitur. I will answer questions related to my posts, not questions designed to deflect or de-rail.
What question or questions i may choose to ask , is solely up to me.
If you don't like it don't answer don't reply, but don't play the victim, it doesn't wash.
Your modus operandi is well known.
-
Just doing their job ? Could you expand please Brietta ? Do you really have no thoughts on what SY may be looking for ?
Evidence which will help to explain what happened to Madeleine McCann in 2007.
-
i dont see how this can be true @ suspects in pdl - wouldnt they be gone by now into hiding? with all the warnings also they are digging FIRST interviewing second which is the wrong way round
-
i dont see how this can be true @ suspects in pdl - wouldnt they be gone by now into hiding? with all the warnings also they are digging FIRST interviewing second which is the wrong way round
Possibly not the preferred order of doing things ~ but time is money ~ they’ve just got to react to events as they get permission to do so. They’ve only just recieved permission to carry out interviews.
-
Evidence which will help to explain what happened to Madeleine McCann in 2007.
So if not a body, what ?
-
So if not a body, what ?
You seem to be in anticipation of a body being found ???
-
You seem to be in anticipation of a body being found ???
No, I'm simply interested in what evidence you think SY are looking for ?
-
That means nothing. Maybe they were disturbed, held Madeleine. After having an accidental murder no burglar would remember or be keen to take any items.
Or imagine they were surprised with the children in there and Madeleine recognising them.
That is a very valid point. There are few circumstances in which an intruder would even want to take a three-year-old child but if he thought for a moment that she had recognised him then that would be a trigger. Another trigger would be if he thought she was about to yell or scream thus attracting attention, in those circumstances he might feel desperate enough to put his hand over her mouth resulting in asphyxiation.
-
Given that she seems to have spent the greater part of her holiday in the creche, how likely is it that she would recognise anyone, other than the nannies?
-
I have to agree with the earlier comment about putting the cart before the horse. Carrying out digs before they have questioned any of the eight suspects is bizarre detective work indeed.
While still on the subject of digs, has anyone observed that they are not using mechanical diggers in terrain which is extremely challenging, I wonder has the magistrate who authorized the work limited the digs to hand tools? Surely in such a large area the odd JCB would have come in handy? Even Tony Robinson and Time Team use one and their excavations tend to be on a relatively small scale.
-
Given that she seems to have spent the greater part of her holiday in the creche, how likely is it that she would recognise anyone, other than the nannies?
On a recent holiday our kids spent the greater part of their holiday with us (in fact - all of it), but were still able to recognise members of hotel staff who had engaged them in pleasantries, served them meals, drinks, done activities etc.
-
I have to agree with the earlier comment about putting the cart before the horse. Carrying out digs before they have questioned any of the eight suspects is bizarre detective work indeed.
While still on the subject of digs, has anyone observed that they are not using mechanical diggers in terrain which is extremely challenging, I wonder has the magistrate who authorized the work limited the digs to hand tools? Surely in such a large area the odd JCB would have come in handy? Even Tony Robinson and Time Team use one and their excavations tend to be on a relatively small scale.
I'm glad you have pointed out how challenging the terrain is, particularly challenging I would imagine if you didn't have access to any sort of digging equipment, never mind mechanical diggers.
-
On a recent holiday our kids spent the greater part of their holiday with us (in fact - all of it), but were still able to recognise members of hotel staff who had engaged them in pleasantries, served them meals, drinks, done activities etc.
So are you suggesting that Abductorman was a member of staff?
-
So are you suggesting that Abductorman was a member of staff?
No, I'm replying to your point that's all.
-
OK
-
The logistics may well be a problem but the extent of the dig necessary needs to be appreciated. 1000 x 400 x 350 deep would do the trick. Not major groundworks by any stretch of the imagination.
Please note what I haven't said before you go off half cocked !
You haven't said a lot of things. Not sure what you're on about tbh (no change there then!)
-
So are you suggesting that Abductorman was a member of staff?
Why would this be a surprise? Mark Warner employed their staff from all over the world and they never had power and time to check up their past. It was organised as a 'fun work holiday' for young people and they were low paid staff. I remember reading their work adverts, one being for a cook. We even discussed this 7 years ago. When Madeleine disappeared Mark Warner quickly moved the staff who worked with Madeleine to their Kos - Greece resort.
-
Given that she seems to have spent the greater part of her holiday in the creche, how likely is it that she would recognise anyone, other than the nannies?
She could have recognised the person who drove them from the airport, the person who served their lunch, the person who took them sailing, the person she saw in the supermarket, the person who fixed their blinds and washing machine, the person who showed them their apartment, the person who brought in cots. She was 4 at the time, old enough to remember people.
-
I have to agree with the earlier comment about putting the cart before the horse. Carrying out digs before they have questioned any of the eight suspects is bizarre detective work indeed.
While still on the subject of digs, has anyone observed that they are not using mechanical diggers in terrain which is extremely challenging, I wonder has the magistrate who authorized the work limited the digs to hand tools? Surely in such a large area the odd JCB would have come in handy? Even Tony Robinson and Time Team use one and their excavations tend to be on a relatively small scale.
I think they simply got the permission for the digs much earlier and they set up the digging date in advance.
The suspect questioning permission came in later, therefore will be performed at later time.
-
I think they simply got the permission for the digs much earlier and they set up the digging date in advance.
The suspect questioning permission came in later, therefore will be performed at later time.
One consideration may simply be the logistics involved in organising such an operation.
-
She could have recognised the person who drove them from the airport, the person who served their lunch, the person who took them sailing, the person she saw in the supermarket, the person who fixed their blinds and washing machine, the person who showed them their apartment, the person who brought in cots. She was 4 at the time, old enough to remember people.
Yes, this was my main hypothesis for the last 12 months, and is my main hypothesis yet: a lone burglar (who attempt to steal objects of value) that Madeleine could recognize because he was a member of the OC staff. I think the by then OC employees in the group of "8 key suspects" will be worth to be carefully scrutinized.
I have also indicated in my blog an area that should be searched more thoroughly: http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com)
-
I think they simply got the permission for the digs much earlier and they set up the digging date in advance.
The suspect questioning permission came in later, therefore will be performed at later time.
So how does that work then ? They dig before questioning the main POI and find nothing so they pack away their equipment and fly the dogs back home. They then question the main POIs who give them information that pinpoints the general area were they should be digging.
Do you really think that is how it would work ?
-
It has been reported all 8 are living in Portugal
Not any more I'd wager !
-
Not any more I'd wager !
If they've moved country then that looks somewhat suspicious don't you think?
-
Not any more I'd wager !
As far as i could find out, all of the names had already made an appearance in the PJ's first inquiry, but none of them had the status of suspect.
This is from the latest Portuguese article I posted in news thread
-
So how does that work then ? They dig before questioning the main POI and find nothing so they pack away their equipment and fly the dogs back home. They then question the main POIs who give them information that pinpoints the general area were they should be digging.
Do you really think that is how it would work ?
Hmmm ... why do you think information gained from interviews will lead to more digging? It could just as well indicate who took Madeleine, where she was taken and where she may be now. Let's hope so until we hear to the contrary.
-
If they've moved country then that looks somewhat suspicious don't you think?
They cannot move country. They know they are being suspected. It must be a nerve-racking time for them..especially if they are innocent..
Plus even if they are innocent one day their names will be published and they will need to clear their names the same way Murat or McCanns did.. not a pleasant time in front of them.. if Madeleine doesn't get found in that small village they will always have fingers pointed at them..
-
Hmmm ... why do you think information gained from interviews will lead to more digging? It could just as well indicate who took Madeleine, where she was taken and where she may be now. Let's hope so until we hear to the contrary.
And what if it does mean more digging ? Do you really think SY would take that chance by not waiting to interview the POI first ?
-
And what if it does mean more digging ? Do you really think SY would take that chance by not waiting to interview the POI first ?
IMO when these digs were organised the SY still had no permission to 'question' the suspects. They expected to question 3 of them but the PJ said it will be 8 of them.
Not sure if people here are aware but Portuguese media has published that permission for questioning these suspects is not needed from the Prosecution office in Portugal. The questioning depended only on PJ.
-
IMO when these digs were organised the SY still had no permission to 'question' the suspects. They expected to question 3 of them but the PJ said it will be 8 of them.
Not sure if people here are aware but Portuguese media has published that permission for questioning these suspects is not needed from the Prosecution office in Portugal. The questioning depended only on PJ.
I'm sorry Vixte but where is all this nonsense coming from ?
-
To clarify - this is from the Guardian
Portuguese police sources have confirmed to the Observer that a number of suspects identified by Scotland Yard detectives will be taken in for questioning "in the very near future" over the disappearance seven years ago of Madeleine McCann.
Police confirmed that "several people" had been identified by the Metropolitan police, who have had officers and two sniffer dogs in the Algarve all week searching a large area of scrubland close to the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz where the McCann family were staying when the three-year-old disappeared in May 2007. The search of that particular area, a Portuguese police source said, would end on 8 June and shift to another area.
It has been six months since the initial request by the Met for access to "three prime suspects" for questioning, although it is believed that as many as eight could be on the interview list. They would be the first significant arrests in the case. The three are thought to be burglars who may have carried out raids in the holiday resort and live locally, although the Portuguese would not say whether the men had criminal records.
The development comes after a cold-case review by British officers and involved the painstaking examination of hundreds of phone records from the area on the night the toddler vanished from her bed as her parents ate supper with friends at a nearby restaurant.
On Friday, officers in Met uniform were seen studying a flat area of ground at the opposite end of the area. They had previously focused on a hole covered in undergrowth. Forensics officers sifted through soil in large sieves inside a white tent set up to cover the void but nothing of interest has been found.
Portugal's attorney general's office said in January it had received an international letter of request in regard to "prime suspects" sent by British police investigating the disappearance. On Saturday the source said there was still no date set for questioning to take place but it definitely would not happen during the current search phase of the investigation, which they said would expand to new sites on Wednesday (11 June), culminating by "no later than next Friday".
Police also confirmed all the suspects still live in Portugal and that interviews would take place at either of the two Algarve police stations, Faro or Portimão, conducted by Portuguese detectives with their British counterparts allowed to sit in but not intervene.
Those police want to talk to will be immediately constituted as arguidos, a Portuguese term for someone who is a suspect, which garnered infamy when Madeline's parents, along with a British expatriate called Robert Murat, were given the status by Portuguese authorities. All three were cleared by a prosecutor in 2008. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-police
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are set to question a number of suspects "in the very near future", Portuguese police have told the Guardian.
Police confirmed that several people had been identified by Met police officers and that they are "mostly Portuguese". They did not say whether these suspects had criminal records.
While not setting a date for the questioning to take place, police said they would not take place during the current phase of the investigation, which would expand to new sites on Wednesday and finish "no later than next Friday".
Searches on the current site would end on Sunday, police said.
Police explained that no date had been set for questioning to take place. The venue would depend on Faro Polícia Judiciária (PJ) director, Mota Carmo, who could question the "suspects at one of the two PJ police stations in the Algarve" located at Portimão and Faro.
Police also confirmed that all the suspects are still resident in Portugal.
No approval is required from prosecutors to question the suspects and the decision rests solely on PJ police, the source said.
British detectives would not be able to intervene at any stage during questioning but they would be allowed to sit in during questioning, the police source added.
The people police want to talk to would be immediately constituted as "arguidos" – or formal suspects – and would not be questioned as mere witnesses, the police source told the Guardian/Observer.http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-near-future-police
-
To clarify - this is from the Guardian
Which will of course, give them the right to refuse to answer any questions.
Those police want to talk to will be immediately constituted as arguidos, a Portuguese term for someone who is a suspect, which garnered infamy when Madeleine's parents, along with a British expatriate called Robert Murat, were given the status by Portuguese authorities. All three were cleared by a prosecutor in 2008. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-police
-
Which will of course, give them the right to refuse to answer any questions.
Those police want to talk to will be immediately constituted as arguidos, a Portuguese term for someone who is a suspect, which garnered infamy when Madeleine's parents, along with a British expatriate called Robert Murat, were given the status by Portuguese authorities. All three were cleared by a prosecutor in 2008. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-police
This is what I thought too.. What happens then? I mean if they refuse to talk?
And arguido is not equivalent of a suspect.. the status is given to them for their own protection.
-
To clarify - this is from the Guardian
Portuguese police sources eh ? Are these the good, honest 'Portuguese police sources' circa 2014 whose leaks can be relied on 100% or the 'boo hiss bad Portuguese police' circa 2007 whose leaks proved how corrupt the PJ actually were ?
-
Portuguese police sources eh ? Are these the good, honest 'Portuguese police sources' circa 2014 whose leaks can be relied on 100% or the 'boo hiss bad Portuguese police' circa 2007 whose leaks proved how corrupt the PJ actually were ?
The Guardian is a respectable source. They would not allow printing of any article if they had no back up. My ex was at one point a journalist for them. They don't publish a single word without a legal advice.
-
The Guardian is a respectable source. They would not allow printing of any article if they had no back up. My ex was at one point a journalist for them. They don't publish a single word without a legal advice.
That doesn't really answer my question though Vixte, does it ?
-
That doesn't really answer my question though Vixte, does it ?
And what was your question?
-
She could have recognised the person who drove them from the airport, the person who served their lunch, the person who took them sailing, the person she saw in the supermarket, the person who fixed their blinds and washing machine, the person who showed them their apartment, the person who brought in cots. She was 4 at the time, old enough to remember people.
Remember too that she was acquainted with other staff outwith the Ocean Club resort.
-
She could have recognised the person who drove them from the airport, the person who served their lunch
You mean Kate, or Gerry? McCanns ate their lunch either in their flat or at the Payne's, depending which statements you believe.
the person she saw in the supermarket
The McCanns do not mention any visit in supermarket, with their children in tow.
the person who fixed their blinds and washing machine
Luis Ferro, a handyman:
This serviced was carried out between 10H00 and 11H00, together with his colleague who is named Mario, and consisted of the repair of a blind in the room of the parents of the minor;
. In this sequence, the deponent and his colleague also taught the mother of the child how to operate the washing machine;
. The woman in question was alone in the apartment;
the person who showed them their apartment,
Fiona Payne, rogatory:
Yeah, we arrived, erm, at the sort of main reception area, got everybody out, I think the men went in to do the actual booking-in, I remember just standing out with Kate outside with all the baggage and the children, erm, you know, so it's either both Dave and Gerry or just Dave went in and, erm, and booked us all in. then we had to wait for the sort of MARK WARNER bus to pick up and take us to the apartments, there was a bit of a wait there, about fifteen minutes or so and then, yeah, a chap came with a minibus and we all sort of piled in with all the luggage and he took us to the apartments.
It seems nobody showed them their apartment. But maybe Maddie remembered the back side of the head of the bus driver...
the person who brought in cots.
According to the statements of the cleaning lady, Maria Julia da Silva,, the cots were brought in before the McCanns appeared in the appartment.
When preparing apartment A, where the Mc Cann family were to be installed, she says that she carried out the preparations with the help of her colleague DNA, on Saturday the 28th. She remembers that when preparing this apartment, she had just been notified that the apartment was to be occupied by 5 (five) people; she was unaware of children in the group. However, at the exact moment when she and her colleague DTNA were preparing the room, personnel from the company MARK WARNER entered the apartment and proceeded to place two children's beds. It was at this moment that they learned that children would be sleeping in the apartment.
-
Portuguese police sources eh ? Are these the good, honest 'Portuguese police sources' circa 2014 whose leaks can be relied on 100% or the 'boo hiss bad Portuguese police' circa 2007 whose leaks proved how corrupt the PJ actually were ?
The latter obviously. All police leaking by the PJ is bad and indicative of a lack of discipline within the force. Doesn't mean all the information they are leaking is false however.
-
The latter obviously. All police leaking by the PJ is bad and indicative of a lack of discipline within the force. Doesn't mean all the information they are leaking is false however.
All police forces leak.
The mccanns leaked, one way or the other.
So your point is .....
-
You mean Kate, or Gerry? McCanns ate their lunch either in their flat or at the Payne's, depending which statements you believe.
The McCanns do not mention any visit in supermarket, with their children in tow.
Luis Ferro, a handyman:
This serviced was carried out between 10H00 and 11H00, together with his colleague who is named Mario, and consisted of the repair of a blind in the room of the parents of the minor;
. In this sequence, the deponent and his colleague also taught the mother of the child how to operate the washing machine;
. The woman in question was alone in the apartment;
Fiona Payne, rogatory:
Yeah, we arrived, erm, at the sort of main reception area, got everybody out, I think the men went in to do the actual booking-in, I remember just standing out with Kate outside with all the baggage and the children, erm, you know, so it's either both Dave and Gerry or just Dave went in and, erm, and booked us all in. then we had to wait for the sort of MARK WARNER bus to pick up and take us to the apartments, there was a bit of a wait there, about fifteen minutes or so and then, yeah, a chap came with a minibus and we all sort of piled in with all the luggage and he took us to the apartments.
It seems nobody showed them their apartment. But maybe Maddie remembered the back side of the head of the bus driver...
According to the statements of the cleaning lady, Maria Julia da Silva,, the cots were brought in before the McCanns appeared in the appartment.
When preparing apartment A, where the Mc Cann family were to be installed, she says that she carried out the preparations with the help of her colleague DNA, on Saturday the 28th. She remembers that when preparing this apartment, she had just been notified that the apartment was to be occupied by 5 (five) people; she was unaware of children in the group. However, at the exact moment when she and her colleague DTNA were preparing the room, personnel from the company MARK WARNER entered the apartment and proceeded to place two children's beds. It was at this moment that they learned that children would be sleeping in the apartment.
Remember, also, that it was dark in the apartment, which would reduce the likelihood of her recognising anyone.
-
All police forces leak.
The mccanns leaked, one way or the other.
So your point is .....
I have made my point.
-
I have made my point.
Not really, you merely ignore what you would rather sweep under the carpet.
-
Not really, you merely ignore what you would rather sweep under the carpet.
Once again you are attempting to derail the thread by making baseless accusations - what is wrong with you? I answered Faithlilly's question full on, you then responded with your usual strawman, and here we are again, bickering over nothing. Please, please, please grow up.
-
Once again you are attempting to derail the thread by making baseless accusations - what is wrong with you? I answered Faithlilly's question full on, you then responded with your usual strawman, and here we are again, bickering over nothing. Please, please, please grow up.
Bickering no.
Merely an observation.
Baseless accusations ???
-
Bickering no.
Merely an observation.
Baseless accusations ???
What, specifically, have I ignored or swept under the carpet in my response to Faithlilly's question? Bearing in mind the question was about the PJ, and not all the other police forces in the world....
-
What, specifically, have I ignored or swept under the carpet in my response to Faithlilly's question? Bearing in mind the question was about the PJ, and not all the other police forces in the world....
You were implying only the Portuguese leak.
-
You were implying only the Portuguese leak.
Perhaps you could highlight the post where I implied that ONLY the Portuguese leak? I wait with baited breath....
-
The latter obviously. All police leaking by the PJ is bad and indicative of a lack of discipline within the force. Doesn't mean all the information they are leaking is false however.
If they are leaking at all.
-
If they are leaking at all.
So when the Guardian quotes "Portuguese police sources", what could that possibly mean, in your view...?
-
It ought to mean an official source, but probably means a police cleaner or canteen worker.
-
It ought to mean an official source, but probably means a police cleaner or canteen worker.
Yeah, probably. LOL.
-
I'm sure whenever the Guardian or the Observer wants to know what's really going on at the heart of a police investigation they always seek out the cleaner or the canteen worker - they're always privy to the inner machinations of any investigation after all!
-
My theory has always been the same: Madeleine was took to order.
OC staff entered using the key, waited for the person who is to take Madeleine, when they arrived he-she opened the window, took Madeleine from her bed and passed her through the window to accomplice. Then the OC staff exited the apartment using the key again.
This was perfectly organised except for the delay in arrival of the accomplice.
Accomplice then carried Madeleine all the way the GNR dogs route to a parked car. GNR dogs caught this trail.
-
My theory has always been the same: Madeleine was took to order.
OC staff entered using the key, waited for the person who is to take Madeleine, when they arrived he-she opened the window, took Madeleine from her bed and passed her through the window to accomplice. Then the OC staff exited the apartment using the key again.
This was perfectly organised except for the delay in arrival of the accomplice.
Accomplice then carried Madeleine all the way the GNR dogs route to a parked car. GNR dogs caught this trail.
Why?
-
So when the Guardian quotes "Portuguese police sources", what could that possibly mean, in your view...?
It means absolutely nothing unless the source is named.
-
It means absolutely nothing unless the source is named.
Why so? There clearly is a source leaking information from the PJ, unless it's your contention that the Guardian / Observer is making stuff up?
-
Why so? There clearly is a source leaking information from the PJ, unless it's your contention that the Guardian / Observer is making stuff up?
I think the Guardian probably accepted the press release in good faith.
-
I think the Guardian probably accepted the press release in good faith.
The Guardian would never publish it unless they can come back with the names if ever questioned. They are not The Star or The Sun.
-
The Guardian would never publish it unless they can come back with the names if ever questioned. They are not The Star or The Sun.
Don't be silly Vixte.
-
I think the Guardian probably accepted the press release in good faith.
The press release? From whom?!
-
The press release? From whom?!
Now that is the $64000 question, isn't it !
-
Now that is the $64000 question, isn't it !
Now who's being silly?! You are intimating that the Guardian and the Observer would simply accept information fed to them by a "third party" about what is going on within the PJ's investigation, and credit them to "Portuguese Police sources" - puh-lease!
-
First line of the article in question:
"Portuguese police sources have confirmed to the Observer that a number of suspects identified by Scotland Yard detectives will be taken in for questioning "in the very near future" over the disappearance seven years ago of Madeleine McCann". - so Faithlilly would have us believe that the Observer journo received a press release from a "third party" and then wrote that - what nonsense she spouts.
-
Now who's being silly?! You are intimating that the Guardian and the Observer would simply accept information fed to them by a "third party" about what is going on within the PJ's investigation, and credit them to "Portuguese Police sources" - puh-lease!
Didn't you watch any of Leveson ?
-
Didn't you watch any of Leveson ?
Relevance?
-
Relevance?
Stop being obtuse Alfred, I think you appreciate the relevance.
Then again having read your posts for some time now, perhaps not !
-
This is like German and Latin. All the the excitement is in waiting for the verb!
You were so excited you "the"d twice.
-
Stop being obtuse Alfred, I think you appreciate the relevance.
Then again having read your posts for some time now, perhaps not !
No, I don't understand the relevance, clearly I am very stupid as you seem to imply. That being the case perhaps you could elucidate further? What I need explaining to me is how the Leveson enquiry relates to the article in the Guardian / Observer which appeared recently, which is under current discussion.
-
So I did; at my age "the'd ing" twice in one day is a bonus. I am not sure the old ticker could stand another one.
You take it easy Les, would really miss your stinky trolling if you pegged it.
-
The correct diminutive of "Leshovik" is not Les but Leshy which also my name in Slavic.
My Alfie but you are sadly ill educated.
Not being Slavic, I prefer Les. It's more earthy. I hope you don't mind. And you got my diminutive right, well done (much prefer Alfie to Fred, though I answer to both).
-
No worries, whatever turns you on sport, us Leshies tend to be earthy and somewhat devious by legend.
Meanwhile back on topic.
Why do you think SY wish to have the Portuguese question 8 local ne'er do wells ?
What information do you think these people will have?; in your considered opinion of course.
Not having inside info on the Met's investigation, I really have no idea. I could speculate wildly, but what would be the point of that?
-
Back to 8 suspects something just occurred to me.
How did SY and PJ come to these 8 people of interest.
It has been reported their ID came as a result of a phone mapping.
And we were also told that the recent searches of the land have to do with the phone mapping.
Then it has been reported that these people were near 5A on May 3
So why only 8 of them?
Is it possible that they looked at the phone data at other times, like the times of the known robberies or times of holidaymaker's children being abused?
Whatever it is the further weeks will be interesting.. I cannot wait for the further developments...
-
As yet, we don't know who these people are and they may turn out to have nothing to offer.
-
As yet, we don't know who these people are and they may turn out to have nothing to offer.
Would they be made arguidos if the McCanns were the Met's key suspects?
-
Who can tell? It wouldn't be SY that have made these people aguido. It would be a Portuguese court as a step to protecting their rights.
-
Who can tell? It wouldn't be SY that have made these people aguido. It would be a Portuguese court as a step to protecting their rights.
Well put it this way - is it LIKELY that SY questioning these 4 arguidos signifies that they are pursuing the McCanns as their chief suspects?
-
At last?
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-06-30/scotland-yard-to-question-four-formal-suspects-in-madeleine-mccann-investigation/ (http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-06-30/scotland-yard-to-question-four-formal-suspects-in-madeleine-mccann-investigation/)
Scotland Yard is to begin questioning four formal suspects in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, ITV News understands.
Officers will begin questioning the four people - identified as arguidos, meaning formal suspects - tomorrow at a police station in Faro, Portugal.
Eight key witnesses will also be questioned.
Would SY be questioning suspects in Portugal when the PJ have re-opened the case and have primacy ?
-
Well put it this way - is it LIKELY that SY questioning these 4 arguidos signifies that they are pursuing the McCanns as their chief suspects?
As we have no idea what questions are going to be asked of these four, it is impossible to know where it may lead.
-
Just a reminder that the Guardian / Observer reported earlier in June that according to Portuguese Police sources arrests and questioning would take place shortly http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-police
This rather proves that the PJ are still leaking like a sieve.
-
Where would we be without leaks ?
-
Just a reminder that the Guardian / Observer reported earlier in June that according to Portuguese Police sources arrests and questioning would take place shortly http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-questioned-police
This rather proves that the PJ are still leaking like a sieve.
No need to rush on this is there? More time equals more surveillance. More time to study, refine the line of questioning / traps to be laid during questioning. Time also gives them a chance to uncover physical evidence once the tourist season is over.
-
No need to rush on this is there? More time equals more surveillance. More time to study, refine the line of questioning / traps to be laid during questioning. Time also gives them a chance to uncover physical evidence once the tourist season is over.
Evidence of what exactly ?
-
Would SY be questioning suspects in Portugal when the PJ have re-opened the case and have primacy ?
Officially, the Met would be "sitting in" (possibly behind the scenes) on the interviews in PT, with the PJ actually conducting the interviews, wouldn't they? Just as the PJ appear to have done in the rog interviews in the UK. If that's the case, I would expect that there will be police on both sides in a back room taking notes, conferring and passing on any additional points to get clarified.
-
Evidence of what exactly ?
Clue is in the 'physical' part of that term Stephen.
-
Officially, the Met would be "sitting in" (possibly behind the scenes) on the interviews in PT, with the PJ actually conducting the interviews, wouldn't they? Just as the PJ appear to have done in the rog interviews in the UK. If that's the case, I would expect that there will be police on both sides in a back room taking notes, conferring and passing on any additional points to get clarified.
I think that's exactly what's happening Carana.
-
Clue is in the 'physical' part of that term Stephen.
i.e.'persons of interest', with no evidence of abduction.
-
I'm rather confused.
Unless SY and the PJ are now conducting a joint investigation what is the point of SY, albeit through the PJ, questioning anyone ?
I only hope all the arguidos take Kate's lead and refuse to answer any of the questions put to them.
-
I'm rather confused.
Unless SY and the PJ are now conducting a joint investigation what is the point of SY, albeit through the PJ, questioning anyone ?
I only hope all the arguidos take Kate's lead and refuse to answer any of the questions put to them.
Indeed.
I'm sure the mccanns supporters will agree on that. @)(++(* @)(++(*
-
I only hope all the arguidos take Kate's lead and refuse to answer any of the questions put to them.
That's their right, but I find that statement interesting.
Your implication being that even if they are guilty, you hope they don't further incriminate themselves...
What a mindset.
-
That's their right, but I find that statement interesting.
Your implication being that even if they are guilty, you hope they don't further incriminate themselves...
What a mindset.
I guess if they do answer all the questions it will mean they are innocent. I don't know why we even bother with trials when this is seemingly such an important signifier of innocence or guilt.
-
That's their right, but I find that statement interesting.
Your implication being that even if they are guilty, you hope they don't further incriminate themselves...
What a mindset.
Are you fond of the word 'Manichaean' 'gadfly' ?
Now that rings a bell. 8((()*/
-
That's their right, but I find that statement interesting.
Your implication being that even if they are guilty, you hope they don't further incriminate themselves...
What a mindset.
Or if they are innocent that they don't give the police any information which they can twist to make them look guilty.
Isn't that what Kate did ?
-
Or if they are innocent they don't give the police any information which they can twist to make them look guilty.
Isn't that what Kate did ?
Context my dear.
Context.
Mother accused of killing own child in foreign country = anger/aversion to pressure being placed on her by PJ
or...
Non-family member accused of abducting Madeleine = ???
-
Context my dear.
Context.
Mother accused of killing own child in foreign country = anger/aversion to pressure being placed on her by PJ
or...
Non-family member accused of abducting Madeleine = ???
What has it got to do with context flower ?
-
Meanwhile, will the new 'argudos' write a book shortly after their questioning , then express their opinion of certain police the way kate mccann did ?
8)-)))
-
What has it got to do with context flower ?
People act in the context of the situation they are in...
If you take that behaviour out of its context, a person's becomes warped.
In England, our young people study that in A-level history so they don't go through the rest of their lives making silly comments, and getting rolled eyes from people who could promote them...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ln1fb_stewart-lee-s-comedy-vehicle-s03e04_fun - from 19 minutes 30 on here, it'll explain the idea of context to you in a funny way.
-
[ quote removed ]
I have no idea what will come of interviewing what are obviously key witnesses.
I have no idea if any of the arguidos will be able to provide answers about what happened to Madeleine.
This is the closest her family have been to finding out what might have happened to her since she disappeared on the 3rd May 2007.
The comments from some who decry this progress have been nothing short of disgraceful and certainly shows them in their true light.
-
Why don’t you keep an eye on current events as they unfold, it could be a long road yet, but the PJ and the Met will walk every inch of it.
If the arguidos exercise their legal right to silence … and I think they may well do so … there is a singular difference between them and the Drs McCann.
It is my understanding that the Drs were constituted arguido a few days before a change in the law which would have required evidence to do so.
That law is in force now. The PJ are making them arguidos … what does that tell you?
Persons of interest who don't have to answer questions.
Now where have we heard that before ? 8)--))
-
Why don’t you keep an eye on current events as they unfold, it could be a long road yet, but the PJ and the Met will walk every inch of it.
If the arguidos exercise their legal right to silence … and I think they may well do so … there is a singular difference between them and the Drs McCann.
It is my understanding that the Drs were constituted arguido a few days before a change in the law which would have required evidence to do so.
That law is in force now. The PJ are making them arguidos … what does that tell you?
If we are to believe what has been written the arguidos are suspected burglars. Perhaps that has more to do with them being made arguido than any part they are suspected of playing in Madeleine's disappearance.
-
If we are to believe what has been written the arguidos are suspected burglars. Perhaps that has more to do with them being made arguido than any part they are suspected of playing in Madeleine's disappearance.
Why is it important to you that the people who will be interviewed by the PJ in relation to Madeleine McCann's disappearance should be as a result of their activities as burglars and nothing at all to do with Madeleine?
You are insulting those who are conducting a highly efficient criminal investigation, imo, and you are at risk of making yourself look rather foolish by doing so.
-
Why is it important to you that the people who will be interviewed by the PJ in relation to Madeleine McCann's disappearance should be as a result of their activities as burglars and nothing at all to do with Madeleine?
You are insulting those who are conducting a highly efficient criminal investigation, imo, and you are at risk of making yourself look rather foolish by doing so.
Because she and the other doubters are clinging to the bizarre belief that the Met think these burglars might have seen the McCanns acting suspiciously on the night in question, laughable I know!
-
Why is it important to you that the people who will be interviewed by the PJ in relation to Madeleine McCann's disappearance should be as a result of their activities as burglars and nothing at all to do with Madeleine?
You are insulting those who are conducting a highly efficient criminal investigation, imo, and you are at risk of making yourself look rather foolish by doing so.
You misunderstood me. The information SY/PJ allegedly have on the alleged arguidos may have been about their burglarising activities and it is this that makes both forces ( if it is both forces ) believe that they had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance. However to question them on their burglarising activities they would have to be made arguidos.
Tell me Brietta why is it so important to you that these arguidos are guilty of Madeleine's abduction ? Unfortunately the bald truth is that if they are involved Madeleine is almost certainly dead but hey, the McCanns would be absolved of any guilt and that's the main thing, isn't it ?
-
If we are to believe what has been written the arguidos are suspected burglars. Perhaps that has more to do with them being made arguido than any part they are suspected of playing in Madeleine's disappearance.
Yeah right
Soz Faith .... but that is kinda straws, grasping at, dont you think?
-
You misunderstood me. The information SY/PJ allegedly have on the alleged arguidos may have been about their burglarising activities and it is this that makes both forces ( if it is both forces ) believe that they had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance. However to question them on their burglarising activities they would have to be made arguidos.
Tell me Brietta why is it so important to you that these arguidos are guilty of Madeleine's abduction ? Unfortunately the bald truth is that if they are involved Madeleine is almost certainly dead but hey, the McCanns would be absolved of any guilt and that's the main thing, isn't it ?
I think I understood you very well.
The most important thing which is happening at the moment is a professional investigation into the case of a missing child.
Hopefully it will lead to a positive conclusion as far as she and her family are concerned, although it is happening seven years later than it should have been.
If the persons under investigation and the witnesses can throw any light on what happened to Madeleine McCann, I will take the greatest pleasure in that. But you know that old slogan “Justice for Madeleine” … that is what the PJ and the Met are in the process of enacting.
I'm afraid you are going to have to live with that.
-
I think I understood you very well.
The most important thing which is happening at the moment is a professional investigation into the case of a missing child.
Hopefully it will lead to a positive conclusion as far as she and her family are concerned, although it is happening seven years later than it should have been.
If the persons under investigation and the witnesses can throw any light on what happened to Madeleine McCann, I will take the greatest pleasure in that. But you know that old slogan “Justice for Madeleine” … that is what the PJ and the Met are in the process of enacting.
I'm afraid you are going to have to live with that.
Obviously you didn't understand me and then spent the rest of your post trying to cover your embarrassment.
Situation normal !!
-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-quiz-four-3791323
Madeleine McCann cops to quiz four suspects including Russian businessman
Jun 30, 2014 22:59
By David Collins
The four individuals have been given “arguido” status, making them formal suspects in Portuguese law, and Scotland Yard detectives will sit in on the interviews
Share
Share
Tweet
+1
Email
PA
Missing: Maddie
Scotland Yard detectives will on Tuesday help question four new suspects in the Madeleine McCann investigation – one of them a Russian businessman.
Officers are due to begin a series of interviews on Tuesday as the four individuals are given “arguido” status, making them formal suspects in Portuguese law.
Detectives from Operation Grange, the British arm of the investigation, are to sit in on interviews led by their Portuguese counterparts.
One of the four suspects is understood to be a Russian businessman who runs a computer business, the Mirror has learned.
Eight key witnesses are also set to be questioned as the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine reaches a new phase following searches carried out at the Praia da Luz resort on the Algarve.
British police earlier this month travelled to the town to examine scrubland close to the Ocean Club holiday apartment where the McCann family were staying when three-year-old Madeleine went missing in 2007.
They also carried out searches on two sites on the outskirts of the resort.
Madeleine McCann police begin to search a patch of scrubland just outside of the small town as the search for clues enters a second week
VIEW GALLERY
It has taken six months to gain access to the four prime suspects since Scotland Yard’s initial request.
Sources said up to eight individuals could be on the full interview list. Three are thought to be burglars who may have carried out raids in Praia da Luz.
Most suspects on the list are thought to still live in Portugal and interviews will be carried out at a Faro police station.
Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann, said: “It is a matter for the Metropolitan Police what they do and when they do it.”
Scotland Yard refused to comment.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-quiz-four-3791323#ixzz36AHN30TH
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
-
One thing's for certain, in order to be made arguidos since the law changed in 2007 there needs to be some solid evidence against these 4 - and Operation Grange are not flying to Portugal to question them about their role in burglaries ffs!
-
One thing's for certain, in order to be made arguidos since the law changed in 2007 there needs to be some solid evidence against these 4 - and Operation Grange are not flying to Portugal to question them about their role in burglaries ffs!
Guess is: mobile data + surveillance + properly compiled witness statements (fresh) from people who knew him but aren't so close to him anymore...
Imagine they'll also be testing him with a few location names to see his reaction...
-
I can't see any reports in the CdM online about all this - or am I missing something?
A headline suggesting baby Daniel's mother was planning to sell more than one child though.....
-
I can't see any reports in the CdM online ....
Tuesday CdM front page has small headline "4 arguidos no caso Maddie"
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/capa.aspx?channelid=00000020-0000-0000-0000-000000000020&contentid=4D0865D3-38FC-4181-BDB6-BBD78CF5CDA4
-
Tuesday CdM front page has small headline "4 arguidos no caso Maddie"
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/capa.aspx?channelid=00000020-0000-0000-0000-000000000020&contentid=4D0865D3-38FC-4181-BDB6-BBD78CF5CDA4
Thanks, Pegasus. Page 40, eh? No wonder I missed it. They're better at burying bad news than our politicians.
-
There is no doubt that many internet campaigns have been waged against the Drs McCann.
Some have been sophisticated and all certainly sustained.
It was all started by someone and I have often asked the question, cui bono?
Apparently if latest reports are correct, a computer expert specialising in setting up web pages with a connection to the initial investigation is to be interviewed by the police. Hmmm
-
Well it seems that on the radio news this morning the people being questioned VOLUNTEERED TO DO SO.
So before some people wet their pants, it might pay to get a sense of proportion.
-
Well it seems that on the radio news this morning the people being questioned VOLUNTEERED TO DO SO.
So before some people wet their pants, it might pay to get a sense of proportion.
you don't understand how the police work...they would be asked to attend the police station ...they can refuse or go voluntarily...if they refuse....they would be arrested
-
All of them volunteered, so it would seem they nothing to fear, unless of course they could be in danger of being fitted -up.
[ moderated ]
-
Using Doubter logic - as the McCanns went to the police station voluntarily, they must have had nothing to fear right?
-
The interviews which will take place today are only part of the continuing process of investigating what happened to Madeleine.
First the existing information and witness statements were analysed. It should be borne in mind that unadulterated files were used.
Witnesses were re-interviewed eg Tannerman.
Public appeals were made for fresh information and some was forthcoming; eg the assaults on British children in the Algarve and probably much more than we have been told about.
Then the real step back in time to searches on the ground in Portugal.
Interviews are now being conducted and the Met have told us this will be the start of a long process.
It is my opinion that the police are at the point now which they should have been at in 2007.
They reached a dead end which resulted in Madeleine’s case being archived because they did not keep all their options; instead they concentrated on and tried to prove her parents perceived guilt.
It was a failure of procedure made all the more glaring when the progress made by the new PJ and Met investigations is considered.
They are working a cold case, but much of the information was available when it was fresh back in 2007 and 2008.
I think eventually there will be an inquiry into that.
-
I can't see any reports in the CdM online about all this - or am I missing something?
A headline suggesting baby Daniel's mother was planning to sell more than one child though.....
Ahahaha! That newspaper really is nothing but a mouthpiece for bent cops isn't it!
-
I haven't noticed a great degree of accuracy or reliability from any newspaper.
-
Well it seems that on the radio news this morning the people being questioned VOLUNTEERED TO DO SO.
So before some people wet their pants, it might pay to get a sense of proportion.
Seems the first arguido is being questioned without a lawyer.
-
Seems the first arguido is being questioned without a lawyer.
I'm not familiar with Portuguese Law, but shouldn't this person have a lawyer present, or do they feel they don't need one ?
-
None one has to have lawyer if they don't want one. If they feel safe without one.
-
None one has to have lawyer if they don't want one. If they feel safe without one.
And have nothing to hide.
-
Seems the first arguido is being questioned without a lawyer.
Where is this information coming from?
Not that I mind, you understand 8)--))
-
And have nothing to hide.
Indeed.
..and that is the key point it seems.
Meanwhile SY are merely trying to justify the money spent on wild goose chases.
-
And have nothing to hide.
I am a teensy bit bothered by the pornography angle, but he doesn't seem to have committed a crime with that. At least, not in Portugal.
Actually, i am a bit stunned because he disappeared off the radar very quickly. But as an Arguido they must be questioning him about something that could incriminate him if he does answer questions. Could it be just burglary?
Certainly, if he was involved in anything illegal, or not, I would keep my mouth shut if I was him.
-
From the news: "There are three other suspects to the British investigation, residents in Praia da Luz, who, from this moment on, are also arguidos following the analyses of the mobile communications of phone calls done on the night the child disappeared."
One of them should be JC, a by then OC employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and a call made at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds), according to the PJ Files (see my blog).
According to Joana Morais @xklamation
Breaking: 1 arguido is a former OC driver
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than a year now will be investigated ...
-
And have nothing to hide.
Neil Connery
@neilconneryitv
ITV News understands delay to questioning of first suspect because the man did not have a lawyer with him
Absolutely nothing wrong with the very sensible decision to be accompanied by a lawyer when being questioned by the police.
Making a virtue of not having one to get the boot in at Dr Kate McCann because she exercised her right to do so and to remain silent on that lawyer's advice is questionable.
Just as no one should question the right of these arguidos to remain silent if that is what they chose to do. Just one of the drawbacks of living in a civilised society.
-
I see some differences in Police procedures between the UK and PT here.
In PT, witnesses cannot be asked incriminating questions unless they are made into arguidos.
SY have produced the questions to be asked as if the interviewees were under caution in the UK.
It follows that the PJ have had to make the interviewees arguidos for the questions to be asked.
-
I see some differences in Police procedures between the UK and PT here.
In PT, witnesses cannot be asked incriminating questions unless they are made into arguidos.
SY have produced the questions to be asked as if the interviewees were under caution in the UK.
It follows that the PJ have had to make the interviewees arguidos for the questions to be asked.
It clearly demonstrates they have no commonsense, or they know they are going to find diddly squat.
-
I see some differences in Police procedures between the UK and PT here.
In PT, witnesses cannot be asked incriminating questions unless they are made into arguidos.
SY have produced the questions to be asked as if the interviewees were under caution in the UK.
It follows that the PJ have had to make the interviewees arguidos for the questions to be asked.
from what I have read they cannot be made arguidos unless the pj have some evidence against them
-
from what I have read they cannot be made arguidos unless the pj have some evidence against them
Just like with the mccanns then ?
-
From the news: "There are three other suspects to the British investigation, residents in Praia da Luz, who, from this moment on, are also arguidos following the analyses of the mobile communications of phone calls done on the night the child disappeared."
One of them should be JC, a by then OC employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and a call made at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds), according to the PJ Files (see my blog).
According to Joana Morais @xklamation
Breaking: 1 arguido is a former OC driver
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than a year now will be investigated ...
Seems you've done a very thorough job, Heri, well done and thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention here and elsewhere.
-
Just like with the mccanns then ?
no Stephen...you show your complete ignorance of the facts of this case...for someone who posts so much you have no basic knowledge
-
Just like with the mccanns then ?
No, very different
When The Mccanns were made Arguidos, there was no need for evidence against them.
The Law was changed soon after and it was thought by many that Amaral had NO evidence and in his eagerness to charge them he rushed the Argiodo status in order thta he had them in his clutches.
No evidence , Stephen .... just Amarals ideas, which had no grounding.
-
From the news: "There are three other suspects to the British investigation, residents in Praia da Luz, who, from this moment on, are also arguidos following the analyses of the mobile communications of phone calls done on the night the child disappeared."
One of them should be JC, a by then OC employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and a call made at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds), according to the PJ Files (see my blog).
According to Joana Morais @xklamation
Breaking: 1 arguido is a former OC driver
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than a year now will be investigated ...
I know which building he lived in, and presume that you do too.
You seem to be accusing this guy for using his mobile in the town where he lived.
-
... with a previous record for theft ...
Are you sure? Does the complete name match exactly?
(For example, I find a totally different person with same last name, in same exact building, with a record).
-
Are you sure? Does the complete name match exactly?
(For example, I find a totally different person with same last name, in same exact building, with a record).
pegasus, the record of theft for this man is indicated in the same PJ files, closed in 2008 ... Of course the PJ may be wrong ... but taking into account that the McCanns and Murat were investigated for very much less, this man should be investigated, if only to discard him ...
By the way, one of the arguidos would be this former Ocean Club employee with a theft record, and another arguido would be the man he called at 21:51:32, who I have identified as R.R. and sent his pic and data to Operation Grange in February 2014.
-
Seems you've done a very thorough job, Heri, well done and thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention here and elsewhere.
Thank you Victoria. I have more info ...
One of the arguidos would be this former Ocean Club employee driver with a theft record (PJ files 679-680), and another arguido would be the man he called at 21:51:32, who I have identified as R.R. and sent his pic and data to Operation Grange in February 2014.
-
Thank you Victoria. I have more info ...
One of the arguidos would be this former Ocean Club employee driver with a theft record (PJ files 679-680), and another arguido would be the man he called at 21:51:32, who I have identified as R.R. and sent his pic and data to Operation Grange in February 2014.
I'm sorry Heri but are you sending them data they have in the files already ?
Don't you think that with 39 officers and civilians and £7 million spent they may have discovered whatever you sent them for themselves long ago ?
Beyond ridiculous !
-
Interesting - according to the Mirror this is the PJ's working theory:
Policia Judiciaria officers now believe Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner no longer in the country, although they have still not ruled out the involvement of a ex-junkie burglar who died in a tractor accident in 2009 three years after being sacked from the Ocean Club over a financial dispute.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-you-know-madeleine-mccann-3795516#ixzz36GA0XMt3
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
-
Interesting - according to the Mirror this is the PJ's working theory:
Policia Judiciaria officers now believe Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner no longer in the country, although they have still not ruled out the involvement of a ex-junkie burglar who died in a tractor accident in 2009 three years after being sacked from the Ocean Club over a financial dispute.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-you-know-madeleine-mccann-3795516#ixzz36GA0XMt3
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
If the Met are smart, which we know they are, they haven't told the PJ everything they've unearthed (no pun intended). I believe that they are slowly dismantling the web, strand by strand, to get to the spider sitting in the centre. The real perps are still sweating.
-
Interesting - according to the Mirror this is the PJ's working theory:
Policia Judiciaria officers now believe Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner no longer in the country ...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-you-know-madeleine-mccann-3795516#ixzz36GA0XMt3
the word "foreigner" potentially includes UK
-
Interesting - according to the Mirror this is the PJ's working theory:
Policia Judiciaria officers now believe Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner no longer in the country, although they have still not ruled out the involvement of a ex-junkie burglar who died in a tractor accident in 2009 three years after being sacked from the Ocean Club over a financial dispute.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-you-know-madeleine-mccann-3795516#ixzz36GA0XMt3
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
Officially the PJ have made it plain they are ploughing their own furrow, which might be fine if eventually they converge with the Met. There are possible advantages to seperate investigations particularly if the information is being pooled and as long as the Met have the permissions to do what they want to do I think things will be fine.
It is my opinion there is a faction in Portugal who are anxious to cause friction between the Met and the PJ. Quite simply, they want to throw a spanner in the works. Insidious leaking to the press is a favoured method.
I don't think it is working out for them as far as disruption goes. The PJ and the Met want this case brought to a satisfactory conclusion. Certainly the PJ don't want to end up with any more egg on their face as in 2007.
I think the present PJ and Met teams have a good working relationship going.
So I think it is wait and see time.
-
If the Met are smart, which we know they are, they haven't told the PJ everything they've unearthed (no pun intended). I believe that they are slowly dismantling the web, strand by strand, to get to the spider sitting in the centre. The real perps are still sweating.
For sure there are seriously worried people about; I don't think they expected the Met to be able to move as quickly as they have; IMO that can only have been done with the full co-operation of the PJ.
The perp has had it easy for the past seven years;no-one has been the least bit interested in looking in that direction; that is now over.
-
Correio Da Manha front page Wednesday
"Suspeitos por cabelos e chamados"
Possible translation: "Suspects by hair and phonecalls"?
-
Correio Da Manha front page Wednesday
"Suspeitos por cabelos e chamados"
Possible translation: "Suspects by hair and phonecalls"?
Here's the snippet you get when clicking on the header on the ticker tape
4 calls and hair plot suspects Sergey Malinka because defendant had couch with hair whose DNA "resembles" to Maddie.
Ler mais em: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcorreia%2Bda%2Bmanha%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D669&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/chamadas-e-cabelos-tramam-4-suspeitos-001901200&usg=ALkJrhidRZ6nEQGj1yoLyL2TuYn70vs4Og
-
"Chamadas e cabelos tramam 4 suspeitos.
S***** M****** arguido porque tinha sofá com cabelo cujo ADN 'se assemelha' ao de Maddie".
Suggested translation:
"Phonecalls and hairs point to 4 suspects.
S***** M****** is arguido because he had a sofa with hair on it whose DNA 'resembles' that of Maddie".
-
I think SY may have been reanalysing some forensic samples collected in 2007.
The CdM report says hair from a "sofa", but here for example is hair collected 2007 from the front right seat of car:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2356.jpg
and possibly related:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2358.jpg
BTW I think they are after totally the wrong guy here.
-
"Chamadas e cabelos tramam 4 suspeitos.
S***** M****** arguido porque tinha sofá com cabelo cujo ADN 'se assemelha' ao de Maddie".
Suggested translation:
"Phonecalls and hairs point to 4 suspects.
S***** M****** is arguido because he had a sofa with hair on it whose DNA 'resembles' that of Maddie".
I'm lost on this one. "resembles" what does that mean? The hair must have been collected in 2007, couldn't have been recent could it?
I fear this type of reporting is in danger of prejucing any future trial should there be enough evidence to warrant one.
-
"Chamadas e cabelos tramam 4 suspeitos.
S***** M****** arguido porque tinha sofá com cabelo cujo ADN 'se assemelha' ao de Maddie".
Suggested translation:
"Phonecalls and hairs point to 4 suspects.
S***** M****** is arguido because he had a sofa with hair on it whose DNA 'resembles' that of Maddie".
When was this?
I don't like the word "Resembles" because I don't think it applies to DNA.
This is not a criticism of you, by the way.
-
the word "foreigner" potentially includes UK
Yes, but the word "snatched" cannot really be interpreted as "given an accidental overdose and buried somewhere local" can it?
-
I'd take anything written in CDM with a large pinch of salt. Will be interesting if confirmed elsewhere though.
-
bump
-
If the Portuguese authorities are of the firm belief that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner then why have they allowed Portuguese nationals to be declared arguidos, cross-questioned by British police and have their faces splashed across the world's media?
-
Perhaps the Portuguese are quite relaxed about the idea of parallel strands of investigation.
They are controlling the interviews. not SY and those being questioned have been made aguido to protect their rights.
-
Perhaps the Portuguese are quite relaxed about the idea of parallel strands of investigation.
They are controlling the interviews. not SY and those being questioned have been made aguido to protect their rights.
Indeed SY are merely bystanders there and no more than that.
-
Perhaps the Portuguese are quite relaxed about the idea of parallel strands of investigation.
They are controlling the interviews. not SY and those being questioned have been made aguido to protect their rights.
. It's a bit rough on the Portuguese nationals, if the authorities in their own country think they have nothing to do with one of the most high profile cases in recent years but still allow them to be subjected to such an ordeal, don't you think?
-
As these things seem to be regulated by a judge, presumably he had enough information placed in front of him to justify approval of the questioning of these men. I don't suppose that the feelings of the individuals enters into it.
It may not be much of an ordeal - not likely to be a Gestapo-like interrogation with bright lights and sleep deprivation.
-
As these things seem to be regulated by a judge, presumably he had enough information placed in front of him to justify approval of the questioning of these men. I don't suppose that the feelings of the individuals enters into it.
It may not be much of an ordeal - not likely to be a Gestapo-like interrogation with bright lights and sleep deprivation.
You don't think having your name and picture splashed across the world's media as a suspect in the disappearance of the most famous missing person in the world constitutes an ordeal? Never mind the 258 plus police questions, and the prospect of spending the rest of your life tainted with the air of suspicion. Yeah, Silly me for thinking that what these arguidos are going through is an ordeal that their own country's authorities have seemingly put them through for nothing!
-
Perhaps they won't answer them , just like Kate.
I don't think judiciary care very much for an individual's feeling - they are more interested in the process of justice.
-
Perhaps they won't answer them , just like Kate.
I don't think judiciary care very much for an individual's feeling - they are more interested in the process of justice.
My point is - if the Portuguese authorities believe that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner then clearly they do not believe that any of these PT nationals had anything to do with it. However, if they have allowed this action "in the process of justice" then they can't be completely wedded to the idea that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner after all...
-
My point is - if the Portuguese authorities believe that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner then clearly they do not believe that any of these PT nationals had anything to do with it. However, if they have allowed this action "in the process of justice" then they can't be completely wedded to the idea that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner after all...
I take your point.
I can only assume that they are under instructions to cooperate with the British police, no matter how ridiculous they consider a request to be, provided that it complies with Portuguese law procedures.
-
I take your point.
I can only assume that they are under instructions to cooperate with the British police, no matter how ridiculous they consider a request to be, provided that it complies with Portuguese law procedures.
Under request by whom? You don't think it seriously concerning that the Portuguese authorities are happy to carry out a "ridiculous" request that undoubtedly will have such serious consequences for four of its own?
-
Under request by whom? You don't think it seriously concerning that the Portuguese authorities are happy to carry out a "ridiculous" request that undoubtedly will have such serious consequences for four of its own?
I Imagine that the Portuguese authorities view this from a complete impersonal stance. Do you think our CPS care about the individual?
-
My point is - if the Portuguese authorities believe that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner then clearly they do not believe that any of these PT nationals had anything to do with it. However, if they have allowed this action "in the process of justice" then they can't be completely wedded to the idea that Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner after all...
Maybe someone of duel Nationality?
-
I Imagine that the Portuguese authorities view this from a complete impersonal stance. Do you think our CPS care about the individual?
I don't think they're likely to indulge "ridiculous" requests from foreign countries that would have serious repercussions for British nationals just to keep the foreign country happy.
-
No names given. Cant be smug atm
Have a feeling it is coming on tho. 8(>((
-
Maddie: "These are not suspects PJ"
The interrogations in PJ of Faro are led by Portuguese inspectors. But the research is English.
Fifteen days after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in May 2007, Sergei Malinka left at dawn the premises of the Judicial Police (PJ) in Portimao. The Russian citizen was interrogated for several hours by investigators, who had taken two computers and other material from his apartment on the third floor of a building located near the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, Lagos.
Although at the time was one of the main suspects in the case - along with another foreigner, Robert Murat - the Russian defendant was not constituted, unlike Murat. And since then there has never been evidence or strong indications that the incriminating.
Scotland Yard does not have the same opinion of PJ, and questioned the Russian during the day, at the premises of the PJ in Faro. Sergei Malinka is one of the four main suspects in the British police, who accused the coming hours will be be made. Two of them were to be heard this morning. The inquiries are going to prolong this week.
Is the Portuguese police to conduct interrogations, but the Judicial there is a clear conviction, summarized in one sentence by a source close to the case: "These are suspicious Scotland Yard and not of PJ, which merely fulfill what is asked . " Another investigator says the Judicial not understand the logic of British colleagues. "So far, have not brought anything new."
In addition to the four potential defendants, the English team has a list of eleven witnesses who also wants to hear very soon. Regardless of who is or is not, in the sights of Scotland Yard, one fact seems certain: "The Portuguese investigation does not point in this direction," says an official of the PJ Express.
That is, in the view of PJ, there is a high risk of men who traveled from London to Faro, instigated by Prime Minister David Cameron (who has spent more than € 5 million in the budget for this research), return home with a handful of nothing. Excavations carried out a few weeks ago near the village of Luz Church typified by a failure. No evidence that points toward the child was three years old when she disappeared from Praia da Luz found.
www.expresso.sapo.pt/maddie-estes-nao-sao-os-suspeitos-da-pj=f878681
-
British Press press for results...
Some British newspapers continue to push for Scotland Yard to get results. Others are limited to hearing the official police sources. What is certain is that in London there is the conviction that someday, Madeleine McCann will be found, dead or alive.
The "Daily Mail", "The Guardian" and the BBC are some of the media that more closely follow the investigation. "The suspects were all identified by Scotland Yard. Interrogation is conducted by detectives from PJ. All suspects have been notified and will be interviewed on Tuesday and in the coming days," sums up "The Guardian".
www.expresso.sapo.pt/maddie-estes-nao-sao-os-suspeitos-da-pj=f878681