Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Benice on June 14, 2014, 08:08:28 PM
Title: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Benice on June 14, 2014, 08:08:28 PM
IMO it was the handler's behaviour which changed. The dog showed no more interest in the hire car than he did in the other cars until after he had been brought back to it several times - culminating with Grime actually tapping the side of the car with his hand several times - drawing Eddie's attention to it. Eventually Eddie alerted. Maybe if he had done the same with the other cars for the same amount of time - Eddie would have eventually alerted to one or more of those cars as well.
Car search video.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 14, 2014, 08:12:47 PM
IMO it was the handler's behaviour which changed. The dog showed no more interest in the hire car than he did in the other cars until after he had been brought back to it several times - culminating with Grime actually tapping the side of the car with his hand several times - drawing Eddie's attention to it. Eventually Eddie alerted. Maybe if he had done the same with the other cars for the same amount of time - Eddie would have eventually alerted to one or more of those cars as well.
The dogs behaviour changed when passing the hire car. That change in behaviour made Grime bring Eddie back.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: gilet on June 14, 2014, 08:24:30 PM
The dogs behaviour changed when passing the hire car. That change in behaviour made Grime bring Eddie back.
When passing the hire car the dog showed no interest in the car, rather a great deal of interest in the wall. The dog had to be called repeatedly back to the car which was clearly the car of interest to the humans because contrary to all UK rules it was the only one plastered with McCann posters.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Benice on June 14, 2014, 08:30:58 PM
The dogs behaviour changed when passing the hire car. That change in behaviour made Grime bring Eddie back.
So how does racing off in completely the opposite direction to the Renault - indicate that Eddie had sensed something when passing by that particular car? He ran off from the other cars just as quickly - but Grime made no attempt to bring him back. In fact he didn't even do a full circuit of car No 2 before being allowed to move on.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 14, 2014, 08:34:20 PM
When passing the hire car the dog showed no interest in the car, rather a great deal of interest in the wall. The dog had to be called repeatedly back to the car which was clearly the car of interest to the humans because contrary to all UK rules it was the only one plastered with McCann posters.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: gilet on June 14, 2014, 08:38:16 PM
Mr Grime and his dogs were taken to PDL with a pre-determined Police focus, the PJ under Amaral having only the single reason to use the dogs (ie to prove that Madeleine was dead and that the parents had hidden her corpse). Unconscious handler bias is a recognised problem when dealing with dogs.
It is part of the reason that dog alerts are not considered evidential unless corroborated by forensics.
And when Martin Grime can apparently claim that he was not aware that the Renault, which had featured on just about every news broadcast in the UK for a month or more and was the only vehicle being examined whicGrimeh was a) a hire car and b) plastered with Madeleine posters, was in fact the McCann hire car then you really have to wonder what he was thinking. Perhaps he was trying too hard to be unbiased?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 14, 2014, 08:38:44 PM
Eddie found the scent and was chasing it after passing the hire car. So of course he would call him back to find the source where his behaviour first changed. You have that, clothes, inside outside 5A - you can't make excuses for that - it is clear cut. Grime wouldn't give a shit about the McCanns - he was just doing his job.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 14, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
Eddie found the scent and was chasing it after passing the hire car. So of course he would call him back to find the source where his behaviour first changed. You have that, clothes, inside outside 5A - you can't make excuses for that - it is clear cut. Grime wouldn't give a shit about the McCanns - he was just doing his job.
Excellent points. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Benice on June 14, 2014, 08:59:13 PM
Eddie found the scent and was chasing it after passing the hire car. So of course he would call him back to find the source where his behaviour first changed. You have that, clothes, inside outside 5A - you can't make excuses for that - it is clear cut. Grime wouldn't give a shit about the McCanns - he was just doing his job.
He may not have cared about the McCanns but as he was on the verge of becoming self employed and these dogs were going to be his source of income, then it was obviously very important to him not to miss anything in a case that was being watched all over the world. IMO being under such pressure - he may have unconsciously over-egged the pudding.
Incidentally Eddie failed to alert to the clothing in the villa - which was later alerted to in the Gym. Also IIRC - Keela's alert at the curtain in 5A also produced absolutely no trace of blood, despite stringent forensic testing by the FSS.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 15, 2014, 12:32:40 AM
Excellent post Buzz 8((()*/
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: gilet on June 17, 2014, 02:41:03 AM
Grime called Eddie back to the first car, then back to the second car. Then the third car Eddie sniffed all round without direction.
As Eddie approached the fourth car (scenic) his behavior CLEARLY changed. He without a shadow of doubt entered the scent cone as evidenced by his sudden HEAD IN THE AIR DEMEANOR. As a result, in his eagerness to find the source did not pay attention to the Scenic at all. It is NOT a case of Grime showing prejudice. Grime did his job perfectly by first realizing his dog had entered the scent cone and second bringing Eddie back to perform the necessary checks that he did not previously perform.
It is the dog handler's role when performing a vehicle search to direct the dog to the door seals and tailgate seal. FACT!
Had Grime allowed Eddie to pass the Renault without performing those checks then he would have been CLEARLY negligent in his approach.
When a dog enters the scent cone it's demeanor changes. The next step from there is to find the concentrated source. With Grime's expert direction he was able to locate that source and ultimately was proved TOTALLY CORRECT.
As for the relevance of your uniform argument.....so what. The dog is trained with a cue for when it's time to perform it's role. That can be a number of things such as a certain collar or vest but in Eddie's case it was clearly the click of the fingers combined with a specific verbal cue. AT THAT POINT THE DOG KNOWS IT'S TIME TO WORK. It's nothing to do with the dog seeing a uniform. Each dog is trained with different cues.
My own dog will empty his bowels to a specific command. I let him off leash for a variety of reasons but once I give that command he knows without a shadow of doubt what is required of him. IMO Grime trained his dog well and his dog knew exactly what was required by that command.
The bottom line is when searching vehicles it is the handlers role to direct his dog to the relevant areas. The only reason Grime struggled with the Scenic is not because the dog was disinterested but because the dog was distracted by hitting the scent cone. At that point the handler knows that the source is somewhere close by. Eddie found the source.
I dispute your claim that I am posting from a position of total ignorance. I have done what research is possible and am not ignorant of the events in PDL or of Cadaver dog handling as you rudely claim.
In what way was Eddie proved to be "totally correct"? The only place he alerted was to the driver door adjacent to where the key was on which blood was found. There is no evidence at all that Eddie pointed to anything other than that drop of blood on the key fob.
I have watched videos of the car search, the clothes search and the apartment and other building searches. I have also read the Cadaver Dog Handbook and am therefore aware of the principles of scent cones. And though I am not in any way an expert on the subject I am entitled to an opinion just as you are. I am not convinced that there was not handler direction of the dogs (almost certainly unintentional) in relation to the car which was visibly that belonging to the McCanns and the cuddle toy which the handler knew was in the cupboard.
Until the expert Mr Grime appears on the forum to answer questions then our non-expert opinions will have to differ.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pegasus on June 17, 2014, 03:02:35 AM
I dispute your claim that I am posting from a position of total ignorance. I have done what research is possible and am not ignorant of the events in PDL or of Cadaver dog handling as you rudely claim.
In what way was Eddie proved to be "totally correct"? The only place he alerted was to the driver door adjacent to where the key was on which blood was found. There is no evidence at all that Eddie pointed to anything other than that drop of blood on the key fob.
I have watched videos of the car search, the clothes search and the apartment and other building searches. I have also read the Cadaver Dog Handbook and am therefore aware of the principles of scent cones. And though I am not in any way an expert on the subject I am entitled to an opinion just as you are. I am not convinced that there was not handler direction of the dogs (almost certainly unintentional) in relation to the car which was visibly that belonging to the McCanns and the cuddle toy which the handler knew was in the cupboard.
Until the expert Mr Grime appears on the forum to answer questions then our non-expert opinions will have to differ.
Every vehicle there was of interest to the investigation. The idea that it was supposed to be a blind test is not realistic - for example there was at least one other vehicle there which was driven by an arguido.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: gilet on June 17, 2014, 03:11:36 AM
Every vehicle there was of interest to the investigation. The idea that it was supposed to be a blind test is not realistic - for example there was at least one other vehicle there which was driven by an arguido.
But considering that the PJ had specifically brought Grime and his dogs in on the premise that their theory was that the Madeleine had died and the parents had covered this up, the clear evidence in the car which made it obvious which car belonged to the parents must have been impossible for Grime not to notice.
It is extremely odd that he takes the trouble to tell us that he didn't know which car was the McCanns when every person watching the video of his handling of the dog in that garage immediately recognises the McCann car from the posters in the windows which were removed when the blood dog was put in the car so that the actions of the dog could be seen clearly.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pegasus on June 17, 2014, 03:28:14 AM
But considering that the PJ had specifically brought Grime and his dogs in on the premise that their theory was that the Madeleine had died and the parents had covered this up, the clear evidence in the car which made it obvious which car belonged to the parents must have been impossible for Grime not to notice.
It is extremely odd that he takes the trouble to tell us that he didn't know which car was the McCanns when every person watching the video of his handling of the dog in that garage immediately recognises the McCann car from the posters in the windows which were removed when the blood dog was put in the car so that the actions of the dog could be seen clearly.
Have you considered the possibility, that the video of Eddie checking the vehicles may be incomplete, and that Mr Grime had Eddie examine closely every vehicle (the video being compiled afterwards to show only the one vehicle which had been signalled)?
For example, I might be wrong but the judge's warrant for the Rua Das Flores villa search authorised search of house and grounds IIRC, but where in that video is the Eddie's search of the grounds? That video is all indoors.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2014, 02:37:28 PM
I do apologize. You are able to give me the title of a book that relates to cadaver dog training therefore I retract the claim that you are totally ignorant. [....moderated...]
Your previous claims.....
"When passing the hire car the dog showed no interest in the car, rather a great deal of interest in the wall."
....does not show any degree of understanding of scent cones, nor does it show any degree of observance regarding Eddie's change in behaviour.
Your previous claim......
"The dog had to be called repeatedly back to the car"
....does not show any degree of understanding regarding Grime's role as a cadaver dog handler.
Even a well trained dog will not perform well without a handler that can guide the process.
Could you explain why SY have stated that Maddie may still be alive and the mccanns are not suspects in light of the dogs alerts
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pegasus on June 17, 2014, 02:50:43 PM
So are some peeps claiming that if UK police use a cadaver dog to check a house (say for example in south london or somewhere), should they have the dog check 10 houses, 9 of which are known clean, and ensure that the handler has no knowledge which 1 of the 10 houses is of interest? If the police don't do that, does it mean the dog's signal is invalid?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2014, 02:53:09 PM
no it isn't...from an evidence point of view that is exactly what they would need to do validate the alerts...thats exactly why the alerts cannot be used as evidence.
The whole point you miss and fail to understand in the majority of searches the dogs are looking for victims or remains...actual physical evidence...thats what counts...not the bark
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2014, 04:06:07 PM
Davel, you are wrong. Read Pegasus' post instead of just parroting your usual mantra.
Who said I missed or failed to understand? You jumped onto a post that related to the dog and handlers behavior. What's this got to do with that?
the dogs alerts are not calibrated and that's why they cant be used as evidence..there is no evidence to support them....
again...why are SY ignoring the dogs alerts when they say Maddie may still be alive and the mccanns are not suspects..
You cant answer the question
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2014, 04:16:32 PM
the point I am making is that all your debates about the details of the alerts are irrelavent...the alerts by themselves are meaningless...thats why SY have said maddie may still be alive and the mccanns are not suspects
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2014, 04:22:54 PM
the point I am making is that all your debates about the details of the alerts are irrelavent...the alerts by themselves are meaningless...thats why SY have said maddie may still be alive and the mccanns are not suspects
It has been pointed out to you dave that the argument isn't as simple as that.
The findings of the dogs are indicative.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: ferryman on June 17, 2014, 04:24:13 PM
How about you remove yourself from your little evidential bubble and tell me what you see regarding Eddie's behavior and Grime's behavior whilst searching the vehicles?
After all that was the post which you felt the need to reply to.
Having watched the videos several times, I see a dog sniffing and moving past several vehicles until they come to the McCanns vehicle. The dogs behaviour does not change, but his is recalled again and gain until he alerts.
I see someone making a promotional video for his new venture.
And I see the words "Duarte Levy" on the video.
I see no provenance and no record of what has been edited.
I see no point in trying to draw any conclusions or any evidential context from those videos.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2014, 05:22:34 PM
So are some peeps claiming that if UK police use a cadaver dog to check a house (say for example in south london or somewhere), should they have the dog check 10 houses, 9 of which are known clean, and ensure that the handler has no knowledge which 1 of the 10 houses is of interest? If the police don't do that, does it mean the dog's signal is invalid?
Why did they get Eddie to check a number of cars in PdL then?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2014, 06:09:50 PM
The dogs behavior changes by his sudden head in the air demeanor. FGS, Eddie's almost jumping with excitement because he's hit a scent! He's recalled to perform the vehicle check by his handler because handlers guide their dogs. Perhaps you are classing that as cueing because you don't understand the cadaver dog handlers role?
I have absolutely no problem with eddie being cued...its important he is as far as Im concerned. Hes there to find evidence and its important he is led over a suspect area again and again if necessary to make sure no evidence is missed..in this case he found no evidence
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 17, 2014, 06:10:46 PM
The dogs behavior changes by his sudden head in the air demeanor. FGS, Eddie's almost jumping with excitement because he's hit a scent! He's recalled to perform the vehicle check by his handler because handlers guide their dogs. Perhaps you are classing that as cueing because you don't understand the cadaver dog handlers role?
Perhaps you could pinpoint the precise moment on the video footage (stating the exact time on the clip) when his behaviour changes?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pegasus on June 17, 2014, 06:22:06 PM
Why did they get Eddie to check a number of cars in PdL then?
Because they were all vehicles of interest to the PJ/UK team, which the PJ/UK team wanted checking by Eddie.
Eddie spent two days checking RM's house and garden. The handler knew it was a property of interest to the PJ. The handler pointed Eddie where to sniff probably hundreds of times at that property. Zero alerts there. Which proves that the handler telling Eddie where to sniff DOES NOT cause the dog to alert.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2014, 06:22:21 PM
Because they were all vehicles of interest to the PJ/UK team, which the PJ/UK team wanted checking by Eddie.
Eddie spent two days checking RM's house and garden. The handler knew it was a property of interest to the PJ. The handler pointed Eddie where to sniff probably hundreds of times at that property. Zero alerts there. Which proves that the handler telling Eddie where to sniff DOES NOT cause the dog to alert.
Who apart from Murat and the McCanns did the cars belong to?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 17, 2014, 06:38:36 PM
Because they were all vehicles of interest to the PJ/UK team, which the PJ/UK team wanted checking by Eddie.
Eddie spent two days checking RM's house and garden. The handler knew it was a property of interest to the PJ. The handler pointed Eddie where to sniff probably hundreds of times at that property. Zero alerts there. Which proves that the handler telling Eddie where to sniff DOES NOT cause the dog to alert.
Don't you find it odd that, considering Eddie alerts to dried blood from a living person, he did not find a single speck of blood in the whole of Murat's house and garden after 2 days of searching?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: pegasus on June 17, 2014, 06:39:51 PM
You could argue the same about 5B 5D 5H and 4G, and (minus the clothes) the Rua Das Flores villa. Lots of pointing by the handler at all those properties, watch the footage, and the handler knew all those properties were of interest - yet ZERO alerts by by Eddie at those properties, again proving that pointing does not make the dog alert.
The above examples, and examples in other cases, like the zero alerts by black labrador Carla at two houses in England recently, indicate to me that cadaver dogs do not signal specks of dried blood from living people, but I am no expert.
We've just had Buzz (seemingly very knowledgeable on the subject) say that Eddie alerted to Gerry's dried blood on the key fob. So, I repeat my query - don't you find it odd that no dried blood was alerted to by Eddie in any of the other locations he was used in?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 17, 2014, 09:04:03 PM
Tbh I'm on my phone and about to go spend some time with my wife so I can't be bothered to search for an exact time. What I will say, from memory is that it's after Eddie has checked the third car and heads off toward the Renault. The first 3 cars are spent searching with his head down, the first two with direction from Grime. As he veers over to the Renault he begins to get more excited and his behavior changes by him suddenly running around with his head in the air. You can see it plain as day. To me this signifies Eddie hitting a scent cone.
It would be easy for Grime to pick up on this behavior change because he would have seen it many times before with Eddie. Cadaver dogs do not just immediately find the source of the scent as soon as they hit on it any more than tracking dogs.
Grime realized Eddie's behavior had changed but also realized the McCann vehicle had not actually been checked at that point. It was however in close proximity. Grime did not relocate Eddie to the other end of the garage to check the car. The car was already quite nearby when Eddie's behavior changed. Had Grime not directed Eddie to perform a check on that vehicle then he would surely have been negligent in his duty.
I've watched the video again twice and I would say Eddie's behaviour only changes after he's been called back to the car repeatedly. There's certainly no instant change in his behaviour when he approaches the Renault that I can see.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 17, 2014, 09:14:52 PM
"As Eddie approached the fourth car (scenic) his behavior CLEARLY changed" - this is the bit of Buzz's statement for which I would appreciate a video clip link, with the specific time this allegedly occurs.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 18, 2014, 08:29:01 AM
So you accept that Eddie's behavior changes? Why do you think that is? Do you think it's more likely because Grime called Eddie back (which he also did with 2 of the 3 previous cars) or because Eddie found an airborne scent?
Do you accept you were wrong when you stated that Eddie's behaviour clearly changed as soon as he approached the Scenic? Because it didn't did it? In fact he started getting excited when he was at some distance from the Renault, closer to the next car to be checked in fact. Grime repeatedly calls Eddie back to the Scenic, he is way more insistent than he is with the other cars. I would dearly love to see the video of Grime and Eddie checking over the next car in the carpark to compare.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 18, 2014, 10:33:17 AM
Do you think Eddie needed to be right on top of the Renault to find an airborne scent. Or do you think it's possible that Eddie having passed the Renault could have passed because the airborne scent was present?
When you say repeatedly, how many times? I count once and then the next commands appear to be direction although Eddie is out of shot before Eddie then runs away again sniffing the air. Are you saying Grime should have left the Renault unchecked? Or should Grime actuallly have checked it more thoroughly, as he did because of Eddie's change in behavior?
Did you not hear the second voice say to Grime "he's jumping about"? Would that comment have been made if Eddie's behavior was consistent? I think you know the answer Alfie but your apologist stance doesn't allow you to accept it.
Are you still on the phone or whatever excuse it was last night for not supplying a link to support this statement of yours?
"Grime called Eddie back to the first car, then back to the second car. Then the third car Eddie sniffed all round without direction.
As Eddie approached the fourth car (scenic) his behavior CLEARLY changed."
So, we're looking for video evidence that as Eddie approached the fourth car his behaviour CLEARLY changed. I have seen the video and I can't see that CLEAR change in behaviour. I can see a change in behaviour only after Grime has called him back to the Renault, and the change happens when he is closer to the 5th car, than the Scenic.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 18, 2014, 10:46:49 AM
Do you think Eddie needed to be right on top of the Renault to find an airborne scent. Or do you think it's possible that Eddie having passed the Renault could have passed because the airborne scent was present?
When you say repeatedly, how many times? I count once and then the next commands appear to be direction although Eddie is out of shot before Eddie then runs away again sniffing the air. Are you saying Grime should have left the Renault unchecked? Or should Grime actuallly have checked it more thoroughly, as he did because of Eddie's change in behavior?
Did you not hear the second voice say to Grime "he's jumping about"? Would that comment have been made if Eddie's behavior was consistent? I think you know the answer Alfie but your apologist stance doesn't allow you to accept it.
Am I saying Grime should have left the Renault unchecked? No, but I would like to know why he only allowed Eddie an average of 10 seconds to check the first 3 cars - was that very thorough, in your view? The first car Eddie sniffs for less that that, barely touches one side of it at all. Is that thorough? Grime calls Eddie back once at each of the first three cars and barely stops walking past them, then comes to a grinding halt at the McCanns car - why?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 18, 2014, 05:39:38 PM
Quote
Secondly, if I walk into a restaurant one of the first things that happens to me is that I smell the food. Do you think I should only be able to smell that food if I put my nose to the grill? Or is there a point where it just gets stronger? Let's say that very same restaurant has the windows open and a nice draft is blowing toward the entrance. Would this help me determine the direction of the scent? Of course it would. On this basis, how do you know whether or not any breeze was present in that garage? It's Grime's job to factor in whether things like that are happening. That parts speculation of course but still possible.
Did Eddie display any behavior even remotely similar to his "jumping about" whilst he was checking the other cars? If he didn't then why do you think this is?
You have failed to acknowledge that you were wrong to say Eddie's behaviour clearly changed when he approached the McCanns' car - because of your repeated refusal to acknowledge this, it seems pointless trying to have any sort of serious discussion with you.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Brietta on June 18, 2014, 08:28:32 PM
I've just watched the video of the cars in the garage. I know Eddie barks when alerting ... but I thought Keela stood stock still with her nose above the object of the alert.
Why did Keela start licking at something in the boot?
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
The first time I viewed the video of the dogs in the garage despite knowing nothing of VRDs something just didn't hang right for me. I did see the posters in the windows so that ruled out the anonymity of the car and I thought Eddie was far more interested in the wall than anything else.
Having looked at the video of the Renault in the garage again ... I think one of the things that should have been there is a date and time stamp and an official statement of start and stop times and all names of all who were present. Indeed I think all videos which are to be presented in evidence should have that. Does anyone know if that is a prerequisite?
Why do I think it important?
We discussed at length Cuddle Cat and the cupboard, but I think there are similar anomalies in the garage scenes.
For example after the fade in to Keela in the boot, obviously the posters have been removed from the windows of the vehicle but the vehicle itself has been moved.
This is evident by checking difference in the chevron markings on the floor of the garage in the last part of the video with Keela and the first part with Eddie.
IMO editing a tape makes it useless for use as evidence but physically moving objects like CC and a vehicle off camera without reference or explanation make it really suspect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF4JTLeOWA
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Moderator on June 20, 2014, 07:45:18 PM
For anyone who hasn't yet viewed the dogs searches here is an extended video of the event.
Car searches start at 1:11:52
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2014, 10:56:01 PM
Thanks for that clip Mod.
I don't think the dogs alerts would stand up as evidence in court.
In the first clip the dog knocked over a basket and what looked like cuddle cat fell out-no barking-later on the dog barked in what looks like a kitchen cupboard and cuddle cat was brought out.
I don't know what to make of it. How to interpret it. The dog certainly picked up a scent!
Could I just remind people that it was the UK police who suspected the family were not being quite helpful with regards to helping with the investigation-they suggested the dogs.
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2014, 10:59:08 PM
I don't think the dogs alerts would stand up as evidence in court.
In the first clip the dog knocked over a basket and what looked like cuddle cat fell out-no barking-later on the dog barked in what looks like a kitchen cupboard and cuddle cat was brought out.
I don't know what to make of it. How to interpret it. The dog certainly picked up a scent!
Could I just remind people that it was the UK police who suspected the family were not being quite helpful with regards to helping with the investigation-they suggested the dogs.
uk police said family should be suspects...thats standard procedure and totally acceptable...amaral thought they said..it was the parents wot dunnit
Title: Re: Eddie and Keela - the car inspections revisited.
Post by: jassi on June 21, 2014, 09:06:00 AM