UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Heriberto Janosch on June 30, 2014, 07:36:54 PM
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http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-06-30/scotland-yard-to-question-four-formal-suspects-in-madeleine-mccann-investigation/ (http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-06-30/scotland-yard-to-question-four-formal-suspects-in-madeleine-mccann-investigation/)
Scotland Yard is to begin questioning four formal suspects in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, ITV News understands.
Officers will begin questioning the four people - identified as arguidos, meaning formal suspects - tomorrow at a police station in Faro, Portugal.
Eight key witnesses will also be questioned.
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Malinka is an Arguido. Did you expect this, Heri? I am a bit stunned, although I don't really understand why I should be.
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Malinka is an Arguido. Did you expect this, Heri? I am a bit stunned, although I don't really understand why I should be.
There have always been suspicious circumstances about Malinka, Eleanor. A good number, but I preferred not to speculate.
They were multiple and diverse, but again I prefer not to speculate. Let's not risk spreading myths. Lets see what comes up
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There have always been suspicious circumstances about Malinka, Eleanor. A good number, but I preferred not to speculate.
They were multiple and diverse, but again I prefer not to speculate. Let's not risk spreading myths. Lets see what comes up
The worrying thing about it is that someone is leaking information yet again.
It is no surprise that it is Portuguese television which has named Malinka. IMO his name should not be in the public domain.
Door stepping a police station to see who is going in or out is good information gathering and good journalism; but this has surely come from a leak.
Leaking details of an investigation is illegal; but it seems no-one in authority is doing anything about it.
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The worrying thing about it is that someone is leaking information yet again.
It is no surprise that it is Portuguese television which has named Malinka. IMO his name should not be in the public domain.
Door stepping a police station to see who is going in or out is good information gathering and good journalism; but this has surely come from a leak.
Leaking details of an investigation is illegal; but it seems no-one in authority is doing anything about it.
Yes, but leaking is also a tactic too. It was used against the McCanns. It increases the pressure, and with pressure, comes mistakes. It also can help to bring yet silent people out of the shadows... And puts pressure on them too... especially if they've known bits and bobs that they've withheld out of loyalty/denial.
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The worrying thing about it is that someone is leaking information yet again.
It is no surprise that it is Portuguese television which has named Malinka. IMO his name should not be in the public domain.
Door stepping a police station to see who is going in or out is good information gathering and good journalism; but this has surely come from a leak.
Leaking details of an investigation is illegal; but it seems no-one in authority is doing anything about it.
All being leaked deliberately IMO! Only a week before court again.
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All being leaked deliberately IMO! Only a week before court again.
For what reason ?
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For what reason ?
Same reason as all the other leaks, near court dates.
I wonder if Amaral has found a new lawyer yet? Why does he need to employ one, when he's supposed to be one, and so is his daughter. He could have had this free and he wouldn't have had lawyers chasing him for payment.
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Same reason as all the other leaks, near court dates.
I wonder if Amaral has found a new lawyer yet? Why does he need to employ one, when he's supposed to be one, and so is his daughter. He could have had this free and he wouldn't have had lawyers chasing him for payment.
But why leak near court dates. You surely aren't suggesting these leaks are good for Amaral ?
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Leaks will have nothing to do with Amaral.
The PJ don't give a stuff about this guy and he has no pull with them. He went his own way, took his own path.
The leaks are from the PJ to scare a suspect*edit before the interview... all over TV (he thought it would be a non-threatening chat to go over past statements), scare the mum, repulse anyone who knew him and had their doubts and might have covered for him...
In Portugal right now, this guy is watching himself at the top of every new bulletin. He'll be thinking through his story... wondering what they know... Restless night ahead.
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Same reason as all the other leaks, near court dates.
I wonder if Amaral has found a new lawyer yet? Why does he need to employ one, when he's supposed to be one, and so is his daughter. He could have had this free and he wouldn't have had lawyers chasing him for payment.
Does having a degree in Law automatically make you a lawyer?
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Malinka is an Arguido. Did you expect this, Heri? I am a bit stunned, although I don't really understand why I should be.
I do think Sergei Malinka is not involved in the abduction.
It is only my opinion.
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I do think Sergei Malinka is not involved in the abduction.
You do know, don't you heriberto, it is still classified as
'type of crime unknown' ???
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I do think Sergei Malinka is not involved in the abduction.
It is only my opinion.
Thanks, Heri.
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Thanks, Heri.
Do you agree Eleanor with.....
'type of crime unknown' ?
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I believe that The McCanns are innocent, Stephen.
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Has there been any more information regarding the missing person, Ricardo de Jesus Fernandes, has any trace of him been found?
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Has there been any more information regarding the missing person, Ricardo de Jesus Fernandes, has any trace of him been found?
Haven't heard anymore about him.
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From the news: "There are three other suspects to the British investigation, residents in Praia da Luz, who, from this moment on, are also arguidos following the analyses of the mobile communications of phone calls done on the night the child disappeared."
One of them should be JC, a by then OC employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and a call made at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds), according to the PJ Files (see my blog).
According to Joana Morais @xklamation
Breaking: 1 arguido is a former OC driver
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than a year now will be investigated ...
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than one year now will be investigated ...
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Here we are dave.
July 2007 Herald Sun
'Kate McCann: 'I'm not going home without Madeleine', 29 July 2007
Gerry, who is on unpaid leave from Glenfield Hospital, Leicester, has spoken about returning to Britain.
But his 39-year-old wife refuses even to countenance leaving Praia da Luz.
Whenever the subject is broached, her response is always the same.
"I'm not going home without Madeleine." '
Your response is welcome 8)-)))
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From the news: "There are three other suspects to the British investigation, residents in Praia da Luz, who, from this moment on, are also arguidos following the analyses of the mobile communications of phone calls done on the night the child disappeared."
One of them should be JC, a by then OC employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and a call made at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds), according to the PJ Files (see my blog).
According to Joana Morais @xklamation
Breaking: 1 arguido is a former OC driver
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than a year now will be investigated ...
It seems at last the man I was talking about since more than one year now will be investigated ...
Could you remind us why you think he needs investigating? Thanks in advance.
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Could you remind us why you think he needs investigating? Thanks in advance.
In my blog ...
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In my blog ...
Thanks. As he lived in the area, is it not reasonable for his phone record to reflect that?
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I don't understand why people are jumping to conclusions that these "leaks" to the media are coming from the PJ when these questionings are related to Scotland Yard's investigation and as such these are SY's suspects.
Additionally, a lot of people, such as administration clerks, are involved in the preparations for the question of the suspects, so the leaks might not be coming from the main police forces involved in the investigation. [sarcasm] Who knows, the media might even be wiretapping the investigators' phones to stay on top of the case... [/sarcasm]
Cheers,
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Thanks. As he lived in the area, is it not reasonable for his phone record to reflect that?
Depends which antenna he activated and when ... it also depends on who he phoned and when ... and who that person phoned etc; etc;
Heri gleaned a great deal of information from the files in the public domain and was able to pinpoint named (to the authorities) individuals who should be looked at. This was way before the case was re-opened.
If one man can do that with only data from the files ... imagine what the PJ and the Met can achieve with the resources they command and access to all the information.
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Depends which antenna he activated and when ... it also depends on who he phoned and when ... and who that person phoned etc; etc;
Heri gleaned a great deal of information from the files in the public domain and was able to pinpoint named (to the authorities) individuals who should be looked at. This was way before the case was re-opened.
If one man can do that with only data from the files ... imagine what the PJ and the Met can achieve with the resources they command and access to all the information.
Yes, I understand the theoretical capabilities of phone tracking. I was commenting that being tracked in a small place like PDL is hardly surprising given that he lives there.
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Yes, I understand the theoretical capabilities of phone tracking. I was commenting that being tracked in a small place like PDL is hardly surprising given that he lives there.
I don’t … but there are people, like you, who do. When one of them devotes a lot of time and effort to analysing the available information; explains in language even I can understand how he has reached a particular conclusion which requires to be looked at; I back his expertise against conjecture, however logical, and your point is logical.
It is interesting that it seems the PJ and the Met have followed his line of reasoning too by inviting the person he indicated in for questioning. I remind you that they have far more resources than Heri had when he carried out his initial study.
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I don’t … but there are people, like you, who do. When one of them devotes a lot of time and effort to analysing the available information; explains in language even I can understand how he has reached a particular conclusion which requires to be looked at; I back his expertise against conjecture, however logical, and your point is logical.
It is interesting that it seems the PJ and the Met have followed his line of reasoning too by inviting the person he indicated in for questioning. I remind you that they have far more resources than Heri had when he carried out his initial study.
Isn't this SY's show. I am lead to believe the PJ do not agree with them.
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Isn't this SY's show. I am lead to believe the PJ do not agree with them.
They've probably been there, done that already and just going through the motions in the spirit of cooperation.
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They've probably been there, done that already and just going through the motions in the spirit of cooperation.
Indeed Jassi.
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Isn't this SY's show. I am lead to believe the PJ do not agree with them.
So we are told.
You believe the speculative gossip if you like, I shall wait for the official statements confirming exactly what is happening.
There is a lot more to come … a long game is being played here and witnesses are there to be ruled in or ruled out; what some like you fail to appreciate is the value of following the evidence and ruling people out.
I don't think the Met choose a scenario then stick to it at all costs. I think they investigate and progress systematically from one step to the next.
Someone somewhere must feel the noose tightening ... and I hope they do feel fear ... because for seven long years the vilification which should have been theirs has been deflected.
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So we are told.
You believe the speculative gossip if you like, I shall wait for the official statements confirming exactly what is happening.
There is a lot more to come … a long game is being played here and witnesses are there to be ruled in or ruled out; what some like you fail to appreciate is the value of following the evidence and ruling people out.
I don't think the Met choose a scenario then stick to it at all costs. I think they investigate and progress systematically from one step to the next.
Someone somewhere must feel the noose tightening ... and I hope they do feel fear ... because for seven long years the vilification which should have been theirs has been deflected.
Sadly, whoever actually took Madeleine will not receive a tenth or even a hundredth of the vilification that the McCanns have received in the last seven years, when he or she is finally caught.
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They've probably been there, done that already and just going through the motions in the spirit of cooperation.
Well, given the absolute hash they made of things (collecting evidence without proper forensic kit, for example) I'm sorry to say that whether the PJ have previously 'been there' or not, it's unlikely they were thorough, hence the need to revisit the investigation from the beginning.
Four new arguidos looks like pretty big news to me, and to the majority of people with an interest in this case. The fact that a handful of Amaral's diehard fans want to dismiss it as nothing is very telling, IMO.
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So we are told.
You believe the speculative gossip if you like, I shall wait for the official statements confirming exactly what is happening.
There is a lot more to come … a long game is being played here and witnesses are there to be ruled in or ruled out; what some like you fail to appreciate is the value of following the evidence and ruling people out.
I don't think the Met choose a scenario then stick to it at all costs. I think they investigate and progress systematically from one step to the next.
Someone somewhere must feel the noose tightening ... and I hope they do feel fear ... because for seven long years the vilification which should have been theirs has been deflected.
People like me ? @)(++(*
My dear Brietta we are all guessing at the moment, yourself included so it would be great if you would stop giving your opinions any more weight than they actually deserve.
As to the long game, let's hope Madeleine is nice and comfy because SY, to my view, don't seem to be in too much of a hurry to find her.
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So we are told.
You believe the speculative gossip if you like, I shall wait for the official statements confirming exactly what is happening.
There is a lot more to come … a long game is being played here and witnesses are there to be ruled in or ruled out; what some like you fail to appreciate is the value of following the evidence and ruling people out.
I don't think the Met choose a scenario then stick to it at all costs. I think they investigate and progress systematically from one step to the next.
Someone somewhere must feel the noose tightening ... and I hope they do feel fear ... because for seven long years the vilification which should have been theirs has been deflected.
You have never said a truer word 8(0(*
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You have never said a truer word 8(0(*
Will you stop vilifying the McCanns when the real abductor is apprehended, or will you carry on regardless...?
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Will you stop vilifying the McCanns when the real abductor is apprehended, or will you carry on regardless...?
You keep on with this 'abductor'.
..and I get criticized about my perceived mantra.
So here we go.....'type of crime unknown'.
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Will you stop vilifying the McCanns when the real abductor is apprehended, or will you carry on regardless...?
I shall be satisfied when the perpetrator has been convicted.
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I shall be satisfied when the perpetrator has been convicted.
That's not answering the question.
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That's not answering the question.
Oh, I think it does. I shall accept the verdict of the court without reservation.
Will you the same?
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Oh, I think it does. I shall accept the verdict of the court without reservation.
But in the meantime you'll defame and abuse whoever you want. Brilliant. 8-)(--)
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But in the meantime you'll defame and abuse whoever you want. Brilliant. 8-)(--)
I don't do either.
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People like me ? @)(++(*
My dear Brietta we are all guessing at the moment, yourself included so it would be great if you would stop giving your opinions any more weight than they actually deserve.
As to the long game, let's hope Madeleine is nice and comfy because SY, to my view, don't seem to be in too much of a hurry to find her.
Festina lente is what the Met is doing, faithlilly. In my opinion.
Only meticulous professional detective work will give any solution here.
That it is being carried out at a remove of seven years is deplorable; that there are those who do not want it carried out at all and have done as much as they could to prevent it happening is immoral.
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From the files, the page featuring the 58second mobile call which Heriberto mentions
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3334.0;attach=3451;image
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TVI news journalist Marisa Rodrigues [in Faro] -
Good afternoon, the information that we have is that the questionings are still taking place. Today we observed the arrival of the four suspects to the Judiciary Police headquarters, where they were constituted, formally, as arguidos, as well as the 11 witnesses who will make statements. By the sheer quantity of people that were called here we foresee that these questionings will take a number of days, we don't know yet how many days exactly.
At least two arguidos arrived here to the Judiciary Police headquarters in Faro during the morning - in total there are four arguidos who have in common the fact that all of them are residents in Praia da Luz, they have contacted each other by phone at the time of the disappearance, some just a few hours before and others after the event - and this is what makes them to be considered as suspects by the English investigation.
Among these four arguidos - they are all Portuguese except one who is Russian - there is a former Ocean Club worker, the driver who used to pick up tourists from the airport to the Ocean Club resort. The Russian was also a witness in the Portuguese authorities' process [2007/08], was questioned, the Judiciary Police searched his house, his computers were seized for forensic examination, he was thoroughly investigated and nothing was detected.
The third arguido, TVI knows that is a person with a psychiatric disorder, suffers from schizophrenia, is a 51 years old man and was allegedly identified by a witness who said he had similarities to one of the numerous e-fits divulged by the English Police. This man arrived accompanied by a friend who told us - though he didn't want to be filmed - and guaranteed that this man, who is now a suspect, stayed all night in his own house on the 3rd of May 2007 and that he isn't involved in this case in anyway.
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TVI news journalist Marisa Rodrigues [in Faro] -
Good afternoon, the information that we have is that the questionings are still taking place. Today we observed the arrival of the four suspects to the Judiciary Police headquarters, where they were constituted, formally, as arguidos, as well as the 11 witnesses who will make statements. By the sheer quantity of people that were called here we foresee that these questionings will take a number of days, we don't know yet how many days exactly.
At least two arguidos arrived here to the Judiciary Police headquarters in Faro during the morning - in total there are four arguidos who have in common the fact that all of them are residents in Praia da Luz, they have contacted each other by phone at the time of the disappearance, some just a few hours before and others after the event - and this is what makes them to be considered as suspects by the English investigation.
Among these four arguidos - they are all Portuguese except one who is Russian - there is a former Ocean Club worker, the driver who used to pick up tourists from the airport to the Ocean Club resort. The Russian was also a witness in the Portuguese authorities' process [2007/08], was questioned, the Judiciary Police searched his house, his computers were seized for forensic examination, he was thoroughly investigated and nothing was detected.
The third arguido, TVI knows that is a person with a psychiatric disorder, suffers from schizophrenia, is a 51 years old man and was allegedly identified by a witness who said he had similarities to one of the numerous e-fits divulged by the English Police. This man arrived accompanied by a friend who told us - though he didn't want to be filmed - and guaranteed that this man, who is now a suspect, stayed all night in his own house on the 3rd of May 2007 and that he isn't involved in this case in anyway.
"At least two arguidos arrived here to the Judiciary Police headquarters in Faro during the morning - in total there are four arguidos who have in common the fact that all of them are residents in Praia da Luz, they have contacted each other by phone at the time of the disappearance, some just a few hours before and others after the event - and this is what makes them to be considered as suspects by the English investigation."
Surely that's not all SY have on these individuals ?
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pegasus, the record of theft for this man is indicated in the same PJ files ...
Usually I am good at finding things.
We are talking about JCFDS aren't we?
I cannot find any mention of a "record of theft" in the case files.
What page number is it on please?
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"At least two arguidos arrived here to the Judiciary Police headquarters in Faro during the morning - in total there are four arguidos who have in common the fact that all of them are residents in Praia da Luz, they have contacted each other by phone at the time of the disappearance, some just a few hours before and others after the event - and this is what makes them to be considered as suspects by the English investigation."
Surely that's not all SY have on these individuals ?
Hmmmm ... TVI news journalist ... that's a definitive analysis from an impeccable source ... relayed by one who has the highest regard for the work of the Met detectives ...
The genie is out of the bottle, Faithlilly, and all the snide remarks in the world won't put him back in.
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Hmmmm ... TVI news journalist ... that's a definitive analysis from an impeccable source ... relayed by one who has the highest regard for the work of the Met detectives ...
The genie is out of the bottle, Faithlilly, and all the snide remarks in the world won't put him back in.
Not sure what you mean about the genie Brietta but if all SY have on these individuals is that they live in PDL and made phone calls before and after the disappearance I fear this is not the breakthrough you all fervently hope it is.
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Not sure what you mean about the genie Brietta but if all SY have on these individuals is that they live in PDL and made phone calls before and after the disappearance I fear this is not the breakthrough you all fervently hope it is.
What sort of breakthrough are you hoping for, Faithlilly?
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What sort of breakthrough are you hoping for, Faithlilly?
That this mystery is solved of course.
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Usually I am good at finding things.
We are talking about JCFDS aren't we?
I cannot find any mention of a "record of theft" in the case files.
What page number is it on please?
Yes we are talking of JCFDS. But I have more info ...
One of the arguidos would be this former Ocean Club employee driver with a theft record (PJ files 679-680), and another arguido would be the man he called at 21:51:32, who I have identified as R.R. and sent his pic and data to Operation Grange in February 2014.
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Yes we are talking of JCFDS. But I have more info ...
One of the arguidos would be this former Ocean Club employee driver with a theft record (PJ files 679-680), and another arguido would be the man he called at 21:51:32, who I have identified as R.R. and sent his pic and data to Operation Grange in February 2014.
I have read the original portuguese pages 679 and 680, and they contain no mention of a "theft record".
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That this mystery is solved of course.
... and what sort of breakthrough is it you suppose I "fervently hope it is"?
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... and what sort of breakthrough is it you suppose I "fervently hope it is"?
Oh I think we both know that Brietta.
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@Heriberto which page of the files says he has a "theft record" please?
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I have read the original portuguese pages 679 and 680, and they contain no mention of a "theft record".
Maybe missing from some of the BS English language translations that are floating around the web?
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Maybe missing from some of the BS English language translations that are floating around the web?
I am not relying on any translations, I have read the original images of those two pages in the files, in the portuguese language, and there are no portuguese words anywhere on those two pages which mean anything like "theft record".
So presumably Heriberto is referring to another page in the files - I cannot find it - but I would welcome being proved wrong - so that's why I'm suggesting that if he posts a page number it would add solidity to the accusation that this man has a "theft record".
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So that was another non event then.
BBC news, interviews completed, nothing new. End of well there is a surprise NOT lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123433
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So that was another non event then.
BBC news, interviews completed, nothing new. End of well there is a surprise NOT lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123433
You fervently hope lol. Why not wait and see what happens next lol before getting your hopes up lol.
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No doubt SY will be revising their theories in light of any information they may have gained. This may take some little time.
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So that was another non event then.
BBC news, interviews completed, nothing new. End of well there is a surprise NOT lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28123433
You lot are so gullible..whats the source for this quote..no source..so you believe it 100%
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I take it you don't think SY have finished their questioning and are on their way home ?
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No doubt SY will be revising their theories in light of any information they may have gained. This may take some little time.
Exactly. From what has been leaked to the press it seems they have uncovered some potentially very significant information - just because their suspects did not spill the beans this week does not mean that new information gleaned from the interviews won't have been relevant and helpful. Wait and see before writing off the investigation as a failure, that's what I say!
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I take it you don't think SY have finished their questioning and are on their way home ?
Aren't they using dogs today?
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Aren't they using dogs today?
Don't think its clear. There was some talk of dogs, but no real details regarding where & when as far as I'm aware. Maybe more today.
An unnamed source " explained that the elements of the Scotland Yard, accompanying interrogation, sniffer dogs brought to Portugal to be used in home visits, particularly in the car of one of the suspects, but that diligence has been refused by a judge for "lack foundation. "
See more at: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php%3Farticle%3D749643%26tm%3D8%26layout%3D121%26visual%3D49&usg=ALkJrhhP18SGDKx5nOSsjdLXNI0JVQvjdQ#sthash.ia77Ibnt.dpuf
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Does anyone know if this particular driver brought the McCanns from the aiport?
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Here are mobile to mobile calls and txts in PDL for a different period: 21:00 to 21:20
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA_11V/Relatorio_de_analise%20dos_primeiros_11_volumes_Page90.jpg
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In Crimewatch special they said a witness saw two men talking at 11pm.
That is the same time and place as where and when the driver on his balcony was alerted to the disappearance by two searchers below.
So it's likely to be the two same searchers I think.
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Exactly. From what has been leaked to the press it seems they have uncovered some potentially very significant information - just because their suspects did not spill the beans this week does not mean that new information gleaned from the interviews won't have been relevant and helpful. Wait and see before writing off the investigation as a failure, that's what I say!
From what has been leaked to the press it seems that they uncovered absolutely nothing!
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From what has been leaked to the press it seems that they uncovered absolutely nothing!
The leak is obviously from a very embarrassed Portuguese source who is totally humiliated that the PJ could not carry out a proper investigation and SY have had to be called in
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The leak is obviously from a very embarrassed Portuguese source who is totally humiliated that the PJ could not carry out a proper investigation and SY have had to be called in
From what I have seen and heard so far, I am trying so hard not to think that SY are that dumb. The bases for their suspicions, in the rogatory letters, were so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh. Now one knows why the judge only allowed the interrogations and refused house searches.
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From what I have seen and heard so far, I am trying so hard not to think that SY are that dumb. The bases for their suspicions, in the rogatory letters, were so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh. Now one knows why the judge only allowed the interrogations and refused house searches.
If you think SY are dumb you must be a fool
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From what I have seen and heard so far, I am trying so hard not to think that SY are that dumb. The bases for their suspicions, in the rogatory letters, were so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh. Now one knows why the judge only allowed the interrogations and refused house searches.
I haven't seen the contents of the rogatory letters. If they are online, who gave them to the press?
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From what I have seen and heard so far, I am trying so hard not to think that SY are that dumb. The bases for their suspicions, in the rogatory letters, were so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh. Now one knows why the judge only allowed the interrogations and refused house searches.
Where did YOU see the Rogatory letters?
Please share.
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Where did YOU see the Rogatory letters?
Please share.
The rogatory letters were quoted in the Portuguese newspapers.
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If you think SY are dumb you must be a fool
So what have SY found dave ?
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The rogatory letters were quoted in the Portuguese newspapers.
Quoted? Are you sure about that?
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Quoted? Are you sure about that?
Yep, the papers gave the so-called evidence SY put in the rogatory letters and it is obvious that this "evidence" came from the McCanns' PIs. SY also wanted to obtain DNA and fingerprints illegally but PJ put their foot down.
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In any case, the Judge hasn't laughed at the Met's request to interview multiple witnesses and suspects, or to carry out various searches. It's clear from the scale of the operation the Met are carrying out in Portugal that Portuguese authorities are taking the requests very seriously indeed.
The 'sources' who are trying to downplay the Met's activity in the Portuguese media appear to be a small number of very bitter ex-officials (that crackpot who used to be in government for one, and I've no doubt Amaral's fingerprints are to be found somewhere behind CdM's stories).
The truth is, this is a large scale investigation by the Met that simply would not be happening without both cooperation and permission on Portugal's part. There have been no information released by either the Met or the PJ via official channels - any leaks are more than likely coming from people either on the periphery, or who are simply making things up.
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Yep, the papers gave the so-called evidence SY put in the rogatory letters and it is obvious that this "evidence" came from the McCanns' PIs. SY also wanted to obtain DNA and fingerprints illegally but PJ put their foot down.
You said they 'quoted' the rogatory letters. Are you sure about that? They were 'quoted'? If so - where?
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The rogatory letters were quoted in the Portuguese newspapers.
Which papers? Citation please
Soz, Victoria. Great monds and all that @)(++(*
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Which papers? Citation please
Soz, Victoria. Great monds and all that @)(++(*
No probs. @)(++(*
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I've heard on the grapevine that SY want to use sniffer dogs in a shop.
However, we already know dogs are useless, aren't they GERRY and KATE ?
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Yes indeed Stephen!
and what are they sniffing for... a little missing alive girl?
What do you think Stephen?
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Yes indeed Stephen!
and what are they sniffing for... a little missing alive girl?
What do you think Stephen?
Absolutely.
With a really nice family and totally unaware who she really is.
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Absolutely.
With a really nice family and totally unaware who she really is.
No...they will be looking for evidence that Maddie was in that shop...and in that case evidence of maddies death..because there is none yet
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No...they will be looking for evidence that Maddie was in that shop...and in that case evidence of maddies death..because there is none yet
I've seen some stupid things in my time but this is taking the biscuit.
So dave, how many people have been in the shop already, eh ?
...and contaminated the scene.
and of course dogs do work,but not when the mccanns are involved, is that it ?
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From what has been leaked to the press it seems that they uncovered absolutely nothing!
You must be reading different papers to me.
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You must be reading different papers to me.
No, just using common sense.
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Sniffer dogs will sniff about a shop and find evidence of Maddie's death?
Oh! o k a y. You make me smile.
It was good to see others who were made arguidos did not refuse to answer questions - all over 200 in all.
Shame none of them confessed though.
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Sniffer dogs will sniff about a shop and find evidence of Maddie's death?
Oh! o k a y. You make me smile.
It was good to see others who were made arguidos did not refuse to answer questions - all over 200 in all.
Shame none of them confessed though.
It's magic, what these dogs do.
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Sniffer dogs will sniff about a shop and find evidence of Maddie's death?
Oh! o k a y. You make me smile.
It was good to see others who were made arguidos did not refuse to answer questions - all over 200 in all.
Shame none of them confessed though.
well if they answered question they must all be innocent...as for confessions...they wont be doing that with SY present
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Sniffer dogs will sniff about a shop and find evidence of Maddie's death?
Oh! o k a y. You make me smile.
It was good to see others who were made arguidos did not refuse to answer questions - all over 200 in all.
Shame none of them confessed though.
perhaps if you could read... I said they will look for evidence of maddie's death ...not find
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perhaps if you could read... I said they will look for evidence of maddie's death ...not find
It's Madeleine dave, not maddie.
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It's Madeleine dave, not maddie.
I call her maddie
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The rogatory letters were quoted in the Portuguese newspapers.
Newspapers ?? For godssake has Portugal learned nothing from 2007 ?
It's time we knew just WHO is giving them the information.
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Newspapers ?? For godssake has Portugal learned nothing from 2007 ?
It's time we knew just WHO is giving them the information.
Sourced close to the mccanns, on so many occasions.
Orchestrated by CM no doubt.
A person who likes to control the media, as we saw in the blair era.
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The newest article from Daily Mail claims the 4 people interviewed in past few days were identified as being close to 5A at the time Madeleine went missing.
Does this mean Malinka is known to be close by too?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680858/Madeleine-McCann-investigators-sniffer-dogs-shop-suspect-seen-child.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
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I dont think he lives too far away from the apartment block.
Sad things is that anyone who may have been involved has had 7 yrs to destroy any links or evidence.
This should have been done right at the start.
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Which papers? Citation please
Soz, Victoria. Great monds and all that @)(++(*
Correio da Manhã, Diário de Notícias, Jornal de Notícias, SIC TV, TVI. That enough.
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Correio da Manhã, Diário de Notícias, Jornal de Notícias, SIC TV, TVI. That enough.
dates please.
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dates please.
Yesterday and today. I can't do links on this computer so if you wish, you can google these papers and find the articles.
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Yesterday and today. I can't do links on this computer so if you wish, you can google these papers and find the articles.
None of them quote the rogatory letters and you know it.
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None of them quote the rogatory letters and you know it.
Don't call me a liar. I know that they all mentioned what SY asked for in the rogatory letters and if you don't want to believe it that is your problem not mine. I can mistakes but I don't invent and I don't lie.
BTW, the articles were mostly day before yesterday and yesterday. Today, in Portugal hardly anyonbe is talking about it anymore.
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Don't call me a liar. I know that they all mentioned what SY asked for in the rogatory letters and if you don't want to believe it that is your problem not mine. I can mistakes but I don't invent and I don't lie.
BTW, the articles were mostly day before yesterday and yesterday. Today, in Portugal hardly anyonbe is talking about it anymore.
None of the papers quoted the rogatory letters. They may have speculated on their contents, and quoted various unnamed sources summarising what was in them, but that amounts to sweet FA. The fact is, the Judge took the requests seriously, the PJ took them seriously and this is a large scale operation involving two police forces.
I don't know whether you [ moderated ] simply don't understand the words you use, but the fact is none of those papers or news outlets quoted the rogatory letters, despite your repeated claims to the contrary.
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Crimewatch: "and later on at around 11pm, two men talking with raised voices"
Driver statement: "he heard about it ... at about 23.00 because he was on his balcony and two men passed by and asked him whether he had seen a small girl who had gone missing "
Same time, and (I have worked out) same place
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Crimewatch: "and later on at around 11pm, two men talking with raised voices"
Driver statement: "he heard about it ... at about 23.00 because he was on his balcony and two men passed by and asked him whether he had seen a small girl who had gone missing "
Doesn't sound like the same event, to me.
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Crimewatch: "and later on at around 11pm, two men talking with raised voices"
Driver statement: "he heard about it ... at about 23.00 because he was on his balcony and two men passed by and asked him whether he had seen a small girl who had gone missing "
Good spot.
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Good spot.
Location of both the above events: outside LuzTur.
Time of both the above events: about 11pm.
IDs: I think (from rogs) two innocent T9 searchers outside same building
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None of the papers quoted the rogatory letters. They may have speculated on their contents, and quoted various unnamed sources summarising what was in them, but that amounts to sweet FA. The fact is, the Judge took the requests seriously, the PJ took them seriously and this is a large scale operation involving two police forces.
I don't know whether you [ moderated ] simply don't understand the words you use, but the fact is none of those papers or news outlets quoted the rogatory letters, despite your repeated claims to the contrary.
All the newspapers had copies of the rogatory letters and reported on the contents. An example: SY wanted to question 2 of the "suspects" because they made calls coinciding with the checks made by the Tapas group on their children. Another was the fact that SY wanted to obtain fingerprints and DNA by sneaky methods and this was also in the rogatory letters.
[ edited ]
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Location of both the above events: outside LuzTur.
Time of both the above events: about 11pm.
IDs: I think (from rogs) two innocent T9 searchers
- SNIP - Police have also been told about two men speaking with raised voices close to the 5A apartment about an hour after Madeleine disappeared.
When they spotted the witness, they walked away talking in hushed tones.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436796/Men-seen-lurking-near-flat-may-have-planned-Madeleine-McCann-s-kidnap
I have seen a more detailed report than this, I think it was noted by two women searchers who found it strange.
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The rogatory letters were quoted in the Portuguese newspapers.
This reads as tho you have read the rogataory letters. but seems you haven't actually seen and read them
Now seems you have changed it to the newspapers reported on the contents [of the Rogs]. A bit different, dont you think? Room for error there and bias.
All the newspapers had copies of the rogatory letters and reported on the contents. An example: SY wanted to question 2 of the "suspects" because they made calls coinciding with the checks made by the Tapas group on their children. Another was the fact that SY wanted to obtain fingerprints and DNA by sneaky methods and this was also in the rogatory letters.
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All the newspapers had copies of the rogatory letters and reported on the contents. An example: SY wanted to question 2 of the "suspects" because they made calls coinciding with the checks made by the Tapas group on their children. Another was the fact that SY wanted to obtain fingerprints and DNA by sneaky methods and this was also in the rogatory letters.
Anytime anyone gives you information that does not fit your vision, you call the poster a liar or sometime who doesn't understand what they write.
I hardly think Scotland Yard would want to obtain evidence by sneaky methods. This would be illegal and render the evidence useless in a court of law.
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I hardly think Scotland Yard would want to obtain evidence by sneaky methods. This would be illegal and render the evidence useless in a court of law.
I don't understand why the Portuguese would have a problem with taking DNA swabs from arguidos or suspects. They took many swabs from staff & guests at OC back in 2007 after the individuals gave their own consent.
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I don't understand why the Portuguese would have a problem with taking DNA swabs from arguidos or suspects. They took many swabs from staff & guests at OC back in 2007 after the individuals gave their own consent.
me too...why not? this could clear people if they were innocent!
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That's always a good indicator for police... Ask for a DNA swab to help the investigation. 90% of people will help out straight away... 9.9% might be wary. And the odd 0.1% will refuse. This doesn't imply guilt but raises questions.
In these cases, it can always be cross-referenced by sneakily getting DNA from members of the family closely related to the person... even if that can't be used in court.
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me too...why not? this could clear people if they were innocent!
So the next time a serious crime happens near you would you expect the police to be able to search any property nearby and take DNA samples from anyone local? In the UK defiantly a no no.
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So the next time a serious crime happens near you would you expect the police to be able to search any property nearby and take DNA samples from anyone local? In the UK defiantly a no no.
Yes I would actually, if there were grounds for suspicion. Are you saying this is not allowed by law?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Pitchfork#DNA_profiling
Leicestershire police took DNA samples from 5000 local men in this case.
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Yes I would actually, if there were grounds for suspicion. Are you saying this is not allowed by law?
Exactly, if there were grounds for suspicion agreed by a judge. Fishing expeditions are not allowed.
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So the next time a serious crime happens near you would you expect the police to be able to search any property nearby and take DNA samples from anyone local? In the UK defiantly a no no.
Oh c'mon there are cases where the police took DNA from whole towns!
Both in the UK and France..if I remember correctly..and in Germany too when a boy on bike went missing.
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Exactly, if there were grounds for suspicion agreed by a judge. Fishing expeditions are not allowed.
Err...did you miss my link above?
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In any case if there were no grounds for suspicion these 4 individuals would not be arguidos!
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Err...did you miss my link above?
The Leicestershire Constabulary and the FSS then undertook an investigation in which 5,000 local men were asked to volunteer blood or saliva samples. This took six months, and no matches were found.
Note the key word. SY wanted PT to authorise searches and DNA sampling. It didn't ask those involved to cooperate.
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One thing is: If they are asking fir a DNA they have a sample to compare it with! Otherwise, why would they ask for a sample???
And if they do have it then it would be natural to have arguidos samples!
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One thing is: If they are asking fir a DNA they have a sample to compare it with! Otherwise, why would they ask for a sample???
And if they do have it then it would be natural to have arguidos samples!
I don't see your point, I would expect the arguidos to have given samples, SY wanted samples from other locals?
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Note the key word. SY wanted PT to authorise searches and DNA sampling. It didn't ask those involved to cooperate.
Well perhaps they should ask nicely then. In any case these men are arguidos, there are grounds to suspect them, the police has asked them hundreds of questions including did you kill Madeleine McCann. If the police have grounds to suspect them then they should be allowed to take a DNA sample and search their homes - in my opinion.
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That's always a good indicator for police... Ask for a DNA swab to help the investigation. 90% of people will help out straight away... 9.9% might be wary. And the odd 0.1% will refuse. This doesn't imply guilt but raises questions.
In these cases, it can always be cross-referenced by sneakily getting DNA from members of the family closely related to the person... even if that can't be used in court.
Anyone who refuses to cooperate raises questions.
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Well perhaps they should ask nicely then. In any case these men are arguidos, there are grounds to suspect them, the police has asked them hundreds of questions including did you kill Madeleine McCann. If the police have grounds to suspect them then they should be allowed to take a DNA sample and search their homes - in my opinion.
These requests are being done as nicely as possible. Those at the top of the investigation are skilled politicians. They work well with the leading Portuguese. This is evident by the progress -the digs, questioning, searching of cars.
All the rest is mid-level PJ sounding off and a former Home Secretary of Portugal having a moan about Portuguese sovereignty to get his name in the newspaper.
If requests are refused, it will be because they'll have been told to come back when they can provide corroborating evidence.. (which in itself, they will often receive some kind of warrant to go and find...).
I repeat, the FO have a good working relationship with Portugal and SY are savvy enough to do it the way the PT authorities want it done -- even if that takes forever.
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Anyone who refuses to cooperate raises questions.
Yes - namely 'why isn't this person cooperating?'
a) Political beliefs?
b) Experience with police before / antagonistic relationship resulting in a refusal to cooperate?
c) Wary about being linked to a different event / crime?
d) Frightened about being linked to the actual crime under investigation?
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Yes - namely 'why isn't this person cooperating?'
a) Political beliefs?
b) Experience with police before / antagonistic relationship resulting in a refusal to cooperate?
c) Wary about being linked to a different event / crime?
d) Frightened about being linked to the actual crime under investigation?
I assume d) includes being involved?
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d) Involved in one aspect potentially. But yes, involved.
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I think the big unbelievable thing about Heriberto's theory, is his remarkable assumption that the child, being awoken by the loud shutter noise (which he so accurately demonstrates in his video of the correct 3-stage opening method) would go towards the window, I find that to be exactly the wrong direction.
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I think the big unbelievable thing about Heriberto's theory, is his remarkable assumption that the child, being awoken by the loud shutter noise (which he so accurately demonstrates in his video of the correct 3-stage opening method) would go towards the window, I find that to be exactly the wrong direction.
If a member of staff, anyone especially female who Madeleine knew, was there and offering her sweeties or the like.
The right enducement by the right person ... and she would soon be there.
Heris theory is possible, but I prefer the entered by the front door scenario.
I especially like it since so many on here have tried to shout it down with no reason. That has raised a double red flag in my mind.
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If a member of staff, anyone especially female who Madeleine knew, was there and offering her sweeties or the like.
The right enducement by the right person ... and she would soon be there.
Heris theory is possible, but I prefer the entered by the front door scenario.
I especially like it since so many on here have tried to shout it down with no reason. That has raised a double red flag in my mind.
Now what did Mitchell say sadie about a 'break-in' ?
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Does anyone know if the arguido driver brought the McCanns from the airport? Anything about that in his statement?
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Does anyone know if the arguido driver brought the McCanns from the airport? Anything about that in his statement?
Suggest you ask Heri
He keeps tabs on everything. He might know.
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Does anyone know if the arguido driver brought the McCanns from the airport? Anything about that in his statement?
He worked Saturdays, often extra hours because that was the busiest changeover day.
However he did not drive Maddie's family from Faro to PDL on Sat 28th April.
Her family did not fly from London to Faro.
They flew from East Midlands Airport to Faro.
From Faro to PDL I think they used an airport taxi minibus, not an MW minibus.
However it is possible that after checking in at reception on the 28th, they may have been driven to block G5 by an MW minibus? If so it is possible he might have been the driver for that short drive of a few hundred metres, or maybe not, as there were other drivers.
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Re the "shop", or "commercial premises", that wish to search with Tito and Muzzy.
If it is a rented premises, would PJ need permission from the building owner, or from the tenant?
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Re the "shop", or "commercial premises", that wish to search with Tito and Muzzy.
If it is a rented premises, would PJ need permission from the building owner, or from the tenant?
I would think the tenant.
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There are identical shutters close by to my house, and I am completely unaware when they are raised or lowered.
I then suggest then that you take a hearing test. I hear everyone's shutters on my street.
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I then suggest then that you take a hearing test. I hear everyone's shutters on my street.
Perhaps you are listening for them while I am not. And I doubt that anyone else was in PdL at the time.
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Some newspaper articles have said that SY, supposedly based on a new witness, wish to search a "shop"/"commercial premises".
Any ideas about whether this is on the assumed smithman route?
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Some newspaper articles have said that SY, supposedly based on a new witness, wish to search a "shop"/"commercial premises".
Any ideas about whether this is on the assumed smithman route?
The media said so.
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Some newspaper articles have said that SY, supposedly based on a new witness, wish to search a "shop"/"commercial premises".
Any ideas about whether this is on the assumed smithman route?
Yes! I've seen the article claiming this..
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Don't be silly.... Jane never mentioned a hat!! But I can understand why you would think... I mean the likeness...The DETAIL
I was just wondering about this situation. You know because I read it thrice on this forum that the police need evidence to question suspects...
I was hoping they would confess, It was good that they answerd ALL the questions-even though they wavered their rights to remain silent.
Back onto the shutters? I thought it was established that the burglars had a key they stole-were watching so they knew the doors were not locked or....Hmm I think were were 'other' reasons. lol @ The shutter entry.
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I've seen some stupid things in my time but this is taking the biscuit.
So dave, how many people have been in the shop already, eh ?
...and contaminated the scene.
and of course dogs do work,but not when the mccanns are involved, is that it ?
Perhaps they will search for blood stains?
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Maybe if there was more co-operation between SY and the PJ we'd be a little closer to finding out what happened to Madeleine.
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Maybe if there was more co-operation between SY and the PJ we'd be a little closer to finding out what happened to Madeleine.
Here's a little question no one seems to have asked today. Is there proof the PJ aren't cooperating ???
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Here's a little question no one seems to have asked today. Is there proof the PJ aren't cooperating ???
Well let's see - have they agreed to all of SY's requests so far and if not why not?
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Well let's see - have they agreed to all of SY's requests so far and if not why not?
Why should they ?
They would have to justify with reasoning and evidence why they wanted say for example, D.N.A. samples and fingerprints.
Have they done this ???
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Why should they ?
They would have to justify with reasoning and evidence why they wanted say for example, D.N.A. samples and fingerprints.
Have they done this ???
they wont be telling us ..we will hear when the ILORs granted
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they wont be telling us ..we will hear when the ILORs granted
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i thought the UK police had already requested these from Portugal and they had been refused.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but i thought the UK police had already requested these from Portugal and they had been refused.
The ilors to interview the suspects were initially refused but SY persevered and they were granted...AFAIAC... the ilors for dna and fingerprints have not been considered yet
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The ilors to interview the suspects were initially refused but SY persevered and they were granted...AFAIAC... the ilors for dna and fingerprints have not been considered yet
We shall see, as the interviews achieved jack.
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We shall see, as the interviews achieved jack.
you have no way of knowing that
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The ilors to interview the suspects were initially refused but SY persevered and they were granted...AFAIAC... the ilors for dna and fingerprints have not been considered yet
It seems that the ILORs for DNA and fingerprints were rejected. Otherwise, why did SY want to try to obtain the DNA and fingerprints by stealthy means?
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It seems that the ILORs for DNA and fingerprints were rejected. Otherwise, why did SY want to try to obtain the DNA and fingerprints by stealthy means?
You are assuming they were rejected....may not have even applied for them at the point but feel they need tehm after the interviews.
Who said they tried to obtain by stealth...more assumption......pj would no doubt have the power to take dna and fingerprints if they wished...
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It seems that the ILORs for DNA and fingerprints were rejected. Otherwise, why did SY want to try to obtain the DNA and fingerprints by stealthy means?
Can you tell us who told you that, please?
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you have no way of knowing that
Really ?
So what have SY achieved ?
.......and more fundamentally they have no idea what happened to Madeleine.
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Really ?
So what have SY achieved ?
.......and more fundamentally they have no idea what happened to Madeleine.
Or so they say.
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Really ?
So what have SY achieved ?
.......and more fundamentally they have no idea what happened to Madeleine.
enough to have sufficient evidence to apply for an ilor re dna and fingerprints...enough evidence to make several people arguidos
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enough to have sufficient evidence to apply for an ilor re dna and fingerprints...enough evidence to make several people arguidos
Thd Portuguese have refused and this farce has gone on for far too long.
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Thd Portuguese have refused and this farce has gone on for far too long.
only in your biased opinion
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only in your biased opinion
No dave.
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Thd Portuguese have refused and this farce has gone on for far too long.
Well there you go - there's the proof you asked for that the PJ aren't co-operating fully with SY.
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Well there you go - there's the proof you asked for that the PJ aren't co-operating fully with SY.
Hardly, since these people had been inerviewed, nothing was found and they had been eliminated from the inquiry.
The simple truth being SY have nothing and that was visible in the Express article, no matter the bluster from Hogan-Howe.
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Hardly, since these people had been inerviewed, nothing was found and they had been eliminated from the inquiry.
The simple truth being SY have nothing and that was visible in the Express article, no matter the bluster from Hogan-Howe.
I don't think they have actually been eliminated, Stephen.
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I don't think they have actually been eliminated, Stephen.
We shall see on that one Eleanor.
Why else would the PJ refuse to provide blood or D.N.A. samples, if they were 'persons of interest' ?
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We shall see on that one Eleanor.
Why else would the PJ refuse to provide blood or D.N.A. samples, if they were 'persons of interest' ?
This Rogatory Letter thingy is a nightmare, Stephen. it has to be done absolutely correctly, and rightly so. Otherwise the evidence is worthless. Even Britain can't obtain DNA and Fingerprints without an arrest. And none of these people appear to have been arrested.
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Hardly, since these people had been inerviewed, nothing was found and they had been eliminated from the inquiry.
The simple truth being SY have nothing and that was visible in the Express article, no matter the bluster from Hogan-Howe.
So by not granting SY's requests you would say that the PJ ARE co-operating fully with their investigation then, would you?
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So by not granting SY's requests you would say that the PJ ARE co-operating fully with their investigation then, would you?
Why should they send information, if they have been already eliminated from their inquires and SY know that ?
You do realize of course, that SY are trying to justify what is now well in excess of £7,000,000 of tax-payers money, well and truly down the drain ?
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Why should they send information, if they have been already eliminated from their inquires and SY know that ?
You do realize of course, that SY are trying to justify what is now well in excess of £7,000,000 of tax-payers money, well and truly down the drain ?
Let's wait and see, shall we?
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so you admit that these suspects have not been eliminated........
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Why should they send information, if they have been already eliminated from their inquires and SY know that ?
You do realize of course, that SY are trying to justify what is now well in excess of £7,000,000 of tax-payers money, well and truly down the drain ?
It is premature to suggest anyone being eliminated from the inquiry as there has been no official statement to that effect and these four men remain arguidos.
I don’t know if it is the PJ who are the stumbling block in acceding to the request for joint working etc; or if it is pen pushers in the Portuguese government, in either case the apparent lack of urgency in resolving what happened to Madeleine is surprising.
To the eyes of the world what seems to be deliberate Portuguese obstruction to finding out what happened to a little girl missing from a Portuguese holiday resort cannot be playing too well.
I think Madeleine's case and its conduct over the past seven years risks defining Portuguese attitudes and mores into the foreseeable future and beyond.
Surprising you complain about the cost to British taxpayers in relation to the SY investigation. Conspicuous by omission is any censure of the mind boggling very expensive and time consuming impediments introduced by the Portuguese state.
If you actually had real concern about discovering ‘the true story of Madeleine McCann’ you would be pressing for the speedy progression of her case and not criticising those endeavouring to complete that task as timeously as possible.
IMO you betray an agenda which is more interested in hounding Madeleine’s parents than any concern about what may actually have happened to her; criticism of expense and the body searching for her to the exclusion of criticism of those hampering progress speaks volumes to me.
I wonder what your opinion of the expenditure would be if the investigation pointed toward your favoured suspects and not directly away from them?
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It is premature to suggest anyone being eliminated from the inquiry as there has been no official statement to that effect and these four men remain arguidos.
I don’t know if it is the PJ who are the stumbling block in acceding to the request for joint working etc; or if it is pen pushers in the Portuguese government, in either case the apparent lack of urgency in resolving what happened to Madeleine is surprising.
To the eyes of the world what seems to be deliberate Portuguese obstruction to finding out what happened to a little girl missing from a Portuguese holiday resort cannot be playing too well.
I think Madeleine's case and its conduct over the past seven years risks defining Portuguese attitudes and mores into the foreseeable future and beyond.
Surprising you complain about the cost to British taxpayers in relation to the SY investigation. Conspicuous by omission is any censure of the mind boggling very expensive and time consuming impediments introduced by the Portuguese state.
If you actually had real concern about discovering ‘the true story of Madeleine McCann’ you would be pressing for the speedy progression of her case and not criticising those endeavouring to complete that task as timeously as possible.
IMO you betray an agenda which is more interested in hounding Madeleine’s parents than any concern about what may actually have happened to her; criticism of expense and the body searching for her to the exclusion of criticism of those hampering progress speaks volumes to me.
I wonder what your opinion of the expenditure would be if the investigation pointed toward your favoured suspects and not directly away from them?
The intrinsic truth remains.
The Portuguese have refused passing on the fingerprints and D.N.A. samples.
Now why would they do that if they want the case solved ?
The simple answer being of course, that themen involved have been eliminated from their inquiries.
and why do SY want them ?
Well that's simple too, they are trying to justify the expense.
As for Hogan-Howe.....
'Hogan-Howe didn't even know what Operation Grange was a few months ago when a caller on a radio phone-in asked him for an update on it!'
Now that really says it all, doesn't it ?
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One might do well to remember the fuss and bother there was about The Rogatory Letters sent by Portugal to The UK. The delays seemed very odd to some.
They weren't, of course. Just the due process of things being absolutely correct. Although Portugal never did get to interview Martin Smith and family because Portugal got the country wrong, and didn't re-apply.
This is not a criticism of Portugal. Just an example of what happens if The Rogatory Letters are not pukha.
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It is premature to suggest anyone being eliminated from the inquiry as there has been no official statement to that effect and these four men remain arguidos.
I don’t know if it is the PJ who are the stumbling block in acceding to the request for joint working etc; or if it is pen pushers in the Portuguese government, in either case the apparent lack of urgency in resolving what happened to Madeleine is surprising.
To the eyes of the world what seems to be deliberate Portuguese obstruction to finding out what happened to a little girl missing from a Portuguese holiday resort cannot be playing too well.
I think Madeleine's case and its conduct over the past seven years risks defining Portuguese attitudes and mores into the foreseeable future and beyond.
Surprising you complain about the cost to British taxpayers in relation to the SY investigation. Conspicuous by omission is any censure of the mind boggling very expensive and time consuming impediments introduced by the Portuguese state.
If you actually had real concern about discovering ‘the true story of Madeleine McCann’ you would be pressing for the speedy progression of her case and not criticising those endeavouring to complete that task as timeously as possible.
IMO you betray an agenda which is more interested in hounding Madeleine’s parents than any concern about what may actually have happened to her; criticism of expense and the body searching for her to the exclusion of criticism of those hampering progress speaks volumes to me.
I wonder what your opinion of the expenditure would be if the investigation pointed toward your favoured suspects and not directly away from them?
8@??)( 8@??)(
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Why should they send information, if they have been already eliminated from their inquires and SY know that ?
You do realize of course, that SY are trying to justify what is now well in excess of £7,000,000 of tax-payers money, well and truly down the drain ?
It really ISN'T possible to have a normal, straightforward discussion with you is it? We were debating whether or not the PJ were fully co-operating with SY. You asked for proof that they were not and then provided it yourself, yet still you seem to be under the impression that the PJ ARE fully co-operating! Either they ARE fully co-operating or they are not - you can't have it both ways simply to score a point on the internet.
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It really ISN'T possible to have a normal, straightforward discussion with you is it? We were debating whether or not the PJ were fully co-operating with SY. You asked for proof that they were not and then provided it yourself, yet still you seem to be under the impression that the PJ ARE fully co-operating! Either they ARE fully co-operating or they are not - you can't have it both ways simply to score a point on the internet.
They have cooperated.
The 4 people were interviewed and they found nothing.
For you what cooperating means, is bending over backwards to do what SY tell them to do, when the PJ already know they are flogging a dead horse.
Your posts as with some others are getting desperate.
it is time that you realize that not everyone is going to bend over backwards and do what 'Simon Says' , i.e. bow down to SY and/or the mccanns.
Then again, maybe that is hoping for too much.
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They have cooperated.
The 4 people were interviewed and they found nothing.
For you what cooperating means, is bending over backwards to do what SY tell them to do, when the PJ already know they are flogging a dead horse.
Your posts as with some others are getting desperate.
it is time that you realize that not everyone is going to bend over backwsards and do what 'Simon Says' , i.e. bow down to SY and/or the mccanns.
Then again, maybe that is hoping for too much.
You do not know they found nothing...making things up again
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as I have said you do not know what SY have found but it seems they are moving forward with dna and fingerprints of the arguidos
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The question is, will it lead them anywhere, or is it just something to do for completion?
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They have cooperated.
The 4 people were interviewed and they found nothing.
For you what cooperating means, is bending over backwards to do what SY tell them to do, when the PJ already know they are flogging a dead horse.
Your posts as with some others are getting desperate.
it is time that you realize that not everyone is going to bend over backwards and do what 'Simon Says' , i.e. bow down to SY and/or the mccanns.
Then again, maybe that is hoping for too much.
So they've co-operated up to a point - but not fully. Which is what I said in the first place and for which you asked proof. Yet again you have made the case that the PJ have not fully co-operated with the SY investigation - so it seems we both agree and it didn't even require me to provide you with the proof after all. Result!
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as I have said you do not know what SY have found but it seems they are moving forward with dna and fingerprints of the arguidos
'moving forward'
Now where have I heard that expression before ? 8)-)))
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So they've co-operated up to a point - but not fully. Which is what I said in the first place and for which you asked proof. Yet again you have made the case that the PJ have not fully co-operated with the SY investigation - so it seems we both agree and it didn't even require me to provide you with the proof after all. Result!
Pray tell me why do the PJ need to jump to every request of SY ?
After all the interviews revealed nothing at all, regardless of what some would like to think.
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Pray tell me why do the PJ need to jump to every request of SY ?
After all the interviews revealed nothing at all, regardless of what some would like to think.
I didn't say they need to, I said they weren't fully co-operating, which they aren't.
But why do they need to you ask? Well they don't if they don't particularly care one way or the other if the case is solved. But if they DO want SY to get on with their investigation (without being denied access to certain information which may prove important) then they do need to co-operate fully. Understand now Stephen? Probably not.
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Stephen, according to you the recent interviews of the arguidos revealed "nothing at all". Can you please provide a Met statement to this effect? Many thanks.
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Stephen, according to you the recent interviews of the arguidos revealed "nothing at all". Can you please provide a Met statement to this effect? Many thanks.
I presume you took note of the BBC report on the evening of the last interview in Portugal ?
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I presume you took note of the BBC report on the evening of the last interview in Portugal ?
Why, did it include a statement from the Met that the interviews revealed "nothing at all"?
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I didn't say they need to, I said they weren't fully co-operating, which they aren't.
But why do they need to you ask? Well they don't if they don't particularly care one way or the other if the case is solved. But if they DO want SY to get on with their investigation (without being denied access to certain information which may prove important) then they do need to co-operate fully. Understand now Stephen? Probably not.
Which may perchance be absolutely true, maxime vero as one might say. Under the EU MLA protocols it is perfectly permissible not to cooperate under certain circumstances. The failure to cooperate may be because the Portuguese do not wish to or what is being asked is contrary to their own system and possibly because the MPS have yet to apply properly. The truth is we do not really know but it is good fun to make ill informed guesses to suit whichever tale we wish to peddle at the time.
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I didn't say they need to, I said they weren't fully co-operating, which they aren't.
But why do they need to you ask? Well they don't if they don't particularly care one way or the other if the case is solved. But if they DO want SY to get on with their investigation (without being denied access to certain information which may prove important) then they do need to co-operate fully. Understand now Stephen? Probably not.
No, what you really mean, is that any diversion provides a means for SY blaming the PJ for the case going nowhere.
Has it ever occurred to you that the PJ know what they are doing, and that they have already excluded these people from the investigation ?
Tell me one simple thing, would you accept it was OK if , in a reverse case, the PJ wished to organize and oversee a CRIMINAL case in the UK ?
Would any UK force accept that, let alone the government ?
It's a very simple question.
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Why, did it include a statement from the Met that the interviews revealed "nothing at all"?
I seem to recall it was stated, they were back to square one.
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Which may perchance be absolutely true, maxime vero as one might say. Under the EU MLA protocols it is perfectly permissible not to cooperate under certain circumstances. The failure to cooperate may be because the Portuguese do not wish to or what is being asked is contrary to their own system and possibly because the MPS have yet to apply properly. The truth is we do not really know but it is good fun to make ill informed guesses to suit whichever tale we wish to peddle at the time.
Would you care to point out which are my ill-informed guesses? We know for a fact that the PJ are not fully co-operating with the Met's investigation.
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I seem to recall it was stated, they were back to square one.
stated by who....an anonymous statement has no validity
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No, what you really mean, is that any diversion provides a means for SY blaming the PJ for the case going nowhere.
Has it ever occurred to you that the PJ know what they are doing, and that they have already excluded these people from the investigation ?
Tell me one simple thing, would you accept it was OK if , in a reverse case, the PJ wished to organize and oversee a CRIMINAL case in the UK ?
Would any UK force accept that, let alone the government ?
It's a very simple question.
Seems like you are wrong yet again...
The Judicial Police has rejected a joint investigation with Scotland Yard to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but the British police is "cautiously optimistic" to proceed with due diligence in Portugal soon, said Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Martin Hewitt.
"The ideal would be a joint investigation, but the Portuguese police does not consider it necessary," said today in a meeting with reporters.
Hewitt ensured being "normal inside the European structure" such joint investigations and said remember "three or four examples" in the UK, between the British police and foreign police forces.
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There hasn't been any information from either the Met or the PJ regarding the people who were questioned as witnesses - the ones legally obliged to answer questions put to them - but whose identity remains unknown.
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September will start with 4 new suspects on top of already 3 identified. =7 arguidos total for time being.
What is still unknown is how many are about to become suspects in UK. I bet at least 1 Briton will be picked up in Portugal.
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September will start with 4 new suspects on top of already 3 identified. =7 arguidos total for time being.
What is still unknown is how many are about to become suspects in UK. I bet at least 1 Briton will be picked up in Portugal.
That's my bet too.
Well maybe not in Portugal, but at least one Brit will be picked up, I think
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September will start with 4 new suspects on top of already 3 identified. =7 arguidos total for time being.
What is still unknown is how many are about to become suspects in UK. I bet at least 1 Briton will be picked up in Portugal.
It bothers me somewhat that the intelligent arguido has apparently been declared by certain press as being "no longer under suspicion".
It bothers me somewhat that a schizophrenic, a 16 year old & a man suffering with lung disease or brain tumour (take your pick) could possibly have carried out one of the crimes of the century.
It bothers me a lot that we are about to be sold a very dubious & unsatisfactory version of what happened that night with no chance whatsoever of discovering the whereabouts of Madeleine.
Cue the final curtain.
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It bothers me somewhat that the intelligent arguido has apparently been declared by certain press as being "no longer under suspicion".
It bothers me somewhat that a schizophrenic, a 16 year old & a man suffering with lung disease or brain tumour (take your pick) could possibly have carried out one of the crimes of the century.
It bothers me a lot that we are about to be sold a very dubious & unsatisfactory version of what happened that night with no chance whatsoever of discovering the whereabouts of Madeleine.
Cue the final curtain.
The perpetrator/s will not have been sitting still for the last seven years.
While the eyes of the world have been conveniently directed elsewhere; whoever is responsible will have had seven years without let or hinderance to have worked on their narrative of events; they will have swept all traces of their actions into oblivion; and only if the worst comes to the worst will a convenient 'fall guy' appear.
I think Euclides may have been the original choice.
As to the "no longer under suspicion" declaration; I seem to have missed the 'official' announcement about that.
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The perpetrator/s will not have been sitting still for the last seven years.
While the eyes of the world have been conveniently directed elsewhere; whoever is responsible will have had seven years without let or hinderance to have worked on their narrative of events; they will have swept all traces of their actions into oblivion; and only if the worst comes to the worst will a convenient 'fall guy' appear.
I think Euclides may have been the original choice.
As to the "no longer under suspicion" declaration; I seem to have missed the 'official' announcement about that.
At least they will have done their best to do so.
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Impossible to guess but here goes anyway.
If that suspicious conversation story reported in PT press is true, maybe SY have identified its location?
Or maybe the posters that SY put up in PDL in July, showing the two photofits, and worded in both english and portuguese, with a number to call, produced some calls?
One name will have been out forward without doubt but excluded as he is no longer a suspect or a person of interest apparently.
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When all is done and dusted who would hazard a bet that it will come down to this...the dead man wot done it?
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One name will have been out forward without doubt but excluded as he is no longer a suspect or a person of interest apparently.
I doubt Mr Malinka is a pauper, if he had anything to hide I reckon he would have skipped the country when they made him a suspect previously.
Remind me John, which of the former arguidos left PDL when they were made suspects?
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I doubt Mr Malinka is a pauper, if he had anything to hide I reckon he would have skipped the country when they made him a suspect previously.
Remind me John, which of the former arguidos left PDL when they were made suspects?
There are arguidos who areand were domicile in Portugal and who are Portuguese nationals. There were arguidos who are domicile in Great Britain.
What was the point you were insinuating?
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When all is done and dusted who would hazard a bet that it will come down to this...the dead man wot done it?
IMO that might suit the PJ very well. IMO I don't think that will be the 'solution' as far as the Met are concerned.
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There are arguidos who areand were domicile in Portugal and who are Portuguese nationals. There were arguidos who are domicile in Great Britain.
What was the point you were insinuating?
I'm unsure as to how many people fled the country when they were made arguidos.
I know of 2 that did.
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I'm unsure as to how many people fled the country when they were made arguidos.
I know of 2 that did.
I don't know of any who fled the country: however your 'superior knowledge' is apparently a bit flawed since the latest batch of arguidos does not appear to include any of the original lot.
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When all is done and dusted who would hazard a bet that it will come down to this...the dead man wot done it?
Would that be the "officially pardoned" Cape Verdean who was 43 at the time of his tractor accident or the "officially pardoned" Cape Verean of the same name who was 47 at the time of his tractor accident?
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I don't know of any who fled the country: however your 'superior knowledge' is apparently a bit flawed since the latest batch of arguidos does not appear to include any of the original lot.
An interesting choice of words my dear. Do yo believe the police are doing them, so to speak, in batches? How many more batches before the conclusion I wonder.
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An interesting choice of words my dear. Do yo believe the police are doing them, so to speak, in batches? How many more batches before the conclusion I wonder.
If you want the answer to that question you would need to ask a source close to the investigation...and it would be an advantage to speak portuguese
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Would that be the "officially pardoned" Cape Verdean who was 43 at the time of his tractor accident or the "officially pardoned" Cape Verean of the same name who was 47 at the time of his tractor accident?
Oh interesting. Two completely different ages given.
I wonder why?
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Oh interesting. Two completely different ages given.
I wonder why?
Each of the pardons was signed by a different person on different dates. Some bright spark on another forum suggested there were probably 2 ELM's from Cape Verde in the Portimao district who had both been granted Presidential pardons in 1996.
Strangely, both the copy documents which made their way onto the internet last November no longer seem to be there. Wish I'd kept copies - but I'm sure someone must have saved a copy to a memory stick so perhaps they could oblige here.
I did spend ages trawling through the Algarve Resident 2008-2010 to find details of the tractor accident, as well as World Health & Safety accident records online. Seems the Portuguese journos could report on a trivial runaway tractor, but not a tractor death. Perhaps we weren't supposed to find out about him.
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Each of the pardons was signed by a different person on different dates. Some bright spark on another forum suggested there were probably 2 ELM's from Cape Verde in the Portimao district who had both been granted Presidential pardons in 1996.
Strangely, both the copy documents which made their way onto the internet last November no longer seem to be there. Wish I'd kept copies - but I'm sure someone must have saved a copy to a memory stick so perhaps they could oblige here.
I did spend ages trawling through the Algarve Resident 2008-2010 to find details of the tractor accident, as well as World Health & Safety accident records online. Seems the Portuguese journos could report on a trivial runaway tractor, but not a tractor death. Perhaps we weren't supposed to find out about him.
The tractor accident took place up in the north of Portugal, so it would not be in any of the Algarve newspapers. I see, almost every day, articles about someone dying in a tractor accident in the Portuguese newspapers and it is possible that it was reported.
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The tractor accident took place up in the north of Portugal, so it would not be in any of the Algarve newspapers. I see, almost every day, articles about someone dying in a tractor accident in the Portuguese newspapers and it is possible that it was reported.
Obviously the North will have newspapers too as does the Algarve region.
Would it be possible for you to do a search, Montclair, and find a report of the accident or even an obituary notification. I don't think that a tractor accident which resulted in a death are such an everyday occurrence that this one would be totally ignored.
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You're really gonna hate the yard when they come out with the same timeline @)(++(* Or maybe they already have and you missed it. They definitely haven't used 10:03 + 10 minutes 8)-)))
"Four phone records between José Silva and Ricardo Rodrigues, made at the day of the crime, are under suspicion: the phone call made at 17:26 which coincides with the time that Maddie left the crèche; a text message at 21:25 when two members of the McCann's group went to check the children; another at 21:38, when Jane Tanner left the Tapas bar and the last at 21:51, when Kate, Madeleine's mother goes to the apartment, before alerting to the disappearance."
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You're really gonna hate the yard when they come out with the same timeline @)(++(* Or maybe they already have and you missed it. They definitely haven't used 10:03 + 10 minutes 8)-)))
"Four phone records between José Silva and Ricardo Rodrigues, made at the day of the crime, are under suspicion: the phone call made at 17:26 which coincides with the time that Maddie left the crèche; a text message at 21:25 when two members of the McCann's group went to check the children; another at 21:38, when Jane Tanner left the Tapas bar and the last at 21:51, when Kate, Madeleine's mother goes to the apartment, before alerting to the disappearance."
So where do these individuals fit into your version of events?
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So where do these individuals fit into your version of events?
The times are interesting and anything that connects need to be investigated. Silva was a driver wasn't he so it doesn't make sense for Smithman to be roaming the streets with a missing child all alone.
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I recall searching for a press report of this accident on a prior occasion but I don't think I found any. There must have been some report but it could be it didn't get onto the internet. I did however find an interesting interview with Euclides Monteiro's widow who claimed that she had found evidence on his computer that he was working on a poem at home at 9pm on the evening that Madeleine disappeared.
(http://i.imgur.com/pYghNDS.jpg?1)
RTP exclusive interview of Euclides Monteiro's widow by Sandra Felgueiras.
www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/05/rtp-exclusive-interview-of-euclides.html
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I recall searching for a press report of this accident on a prior occasion but I don't think I found any. There must have been some report but it could be it didn't get onto the internet. I did however find an interesting interview with Euclides Monteiro's widow who claimed that she had found evidence on his computer that he was working on a poem at home at 9pm on the evening that Madeleine disappeared.
(http://i.imgur.com/pYghNDS.jpg?1)
RTP exclusive interview of Euclides Monteiro's widow by Sandra Felgueiras.
www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/05/rtp-exclusive-interview-of-euclides.html
You can't really get a more independent or unbiased view than that of his wife..what did she say the poem was about?
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You can't really get a more independent or unbiased view than that of his wife..what did she say the poem was about?
The link isn't working for me.
If the hard drive was checked and a poem found, IMO it means zilch.
Obviously if his wife accessed it he did not have a secure password; but that apart there is no proof that he was the person using the keyboard - whereas the PJ have located his phone in LUZ at the time in question, so it must have 'pinged' but what other 'pings' data did the transmitter record?
I do not believe the Met have him down as a suspect ... but if the PJ do ... they must have their reasons.
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The link isn't working for me.
If the hard drive was checked and a poem found, IMO it means zilch.
Obviously if his wife accessed it he did not have a secure password; but that apart there is no proof that he was the person using the keyboard - whereas the PJ have located his phone in LUZ at the time in question, so it must have 'pinged' but what other 'pings' data did the transmitter record?
I do not believe the Met have him down as a suspect ... but if the PJ do ... they must have their reasons.
How many heroin addicts steal children and no valuables. How many black men were seen carrying a child? How many scooters were seen? Blame it on the dead black man who can no longer defend himself.
"I can’t see how - in a village like Praia da Luz, well lit up – was possible for a person to carry a child on foot or in a scooter without being seen."
Yes he was seen and his name is Smithman who ironically doesn't like to talk to reveal his strong easily recognisable accent.
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Hardly, since these people had been inerviewed, nothing was found and they had been eliminated from the inquiry.
The simple truth being SY have nothing and that was visible in the Express article, no matter the bluster from Hogan-Howe.
Eliminated from the inquiry? SY have sent a letter requesting to interview them again.
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I don't think we know what the letter requests, as neither SY nor the Portuguese judiciary have told us.
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By now, it seems only three arguidos remain: Jose Carlos, Ricardo and Paulo. I had written about them in my blog:
" One of the four new official suspects is Jose Carlos (38 years old), a former Ocean Club employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and who made a phone call at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds). At last, this man that I was talking about since more than a year now (I had sent his data to Scotland Yard Operation Grange in June 2013), will be investigated. "
" Another of the four new suspects is Ricardo (23 years old), the man who received the Jose Carlos phone call at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007. I had sent the full name of Ricardo and other data to Scotland Yard Operation Grange in February, 2014. "
Paulo (51 years old) is a friend of Jose Carlos and Ricardo. All lived in Praia da Luz when Madeleine was abducted.
" A QUESTION ... I have found, in June 2013, in the first volumes of the Polícia Judiciária Files, that a man is referenced who: (a) was living near the 5A apartment, (b) was living near the location where the Smith family saw the suspect, (c) had a previous record for theft, (d) was an Ocean Club employee, (e) was not working between 09:00 pm and 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, (f) might know well the Ocean Club apartments, (g) was in the zone at 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, and (h) was in the zone at the time Madeleine was abducted (confirmed by his mobile phone records). The block 5 (where the 5A apartment is) had a theft on 5L on April 17th. 2007, and an intent of theft on G5 (5G) on approximately April 26th. 2007. That is, 17 and 7 days before the abduction of Madeleine. Was this man already investigated and ruled out? "
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-new.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-new.html)
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By now, it seems only three arguidos remain: Jose Carlos, Ricardo and Paulo. I had written about them in my blog:
" One of the four new official suspects is Jose Carlos (38 years old), a former Ocean Club employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and who made a phone call at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds). At last, this man that I was talking about since more than a year now (I had sent his data to Scotland Yard Operation Grange in June 2013), will be investigated. "
" Another of the four new suspects is Ricardo (23 years old), the man who received the Jose Carlos phone call at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007. I had sent the full name of Ricardo and other data to Scotland Yard Operation Grange in February, 2014. "
Paulo (51 years old) is a friend of Jose Carlos and Ricardo. All lived in Praia da Luz when Madeleine was abducted.
" A QUESTION ... I have found, in June 2013, in the first volumes of the Polícia Judiciária Files, that a man is referenced who: (a) was living near the 5A apartment, (b) was living near the location where the Smith family saw the suspect, (c) had a previous record for theft, (d) was an Ocean Club employee, (e) was not working between 09:00 pm and 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, (f) might know well the Ocean Club apartments, (g) was in the zone at 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, and (h) was in the zone at the time Madeleine was abducted (confirmed by his mobile phone records). The block 5 (where the 5A apartment is) had a theft on 5L on April 17th. 2007, and an intent of theft on G5 (5G) on approximately April 26th. 2007. That is, 17 and 7 days before the abduction of Madeleine. Was this man already investigated and ruled out? "
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-new.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-new.html)
Do any look like the Smithman efits? I will rule out the 16 year old mastermind.
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Do any look like the Smithman efits? I will rule out the 16 year old mastermind.
As per usual, they are clutching at straws.
It just remains now for the Portuguese to be blamed YET AGAIN for the unsolved disappearance of Madeleine.
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The link isn't working for me.
Link sorted...
www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/05/rtp-exclusive-interview-of-euclides.html
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By now, it seems only three arguidos remain: Jose Carlos, Ricardo and Paulo. I had written about them in my blog:
" One of the four new official suspects is Jose Carlos (38 years old), a former Ocean Club employee, a driver, with a previous record for theft, and who made a phone call at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007 (duration: 58 seconds). At last, this man that I was talking about since more than a year now (I had sent his data to Scotland Yard Operation Grange in June 2013), will be investigated. "
" Another of the four new suspects is Ricardo (23 years old), the man who received the Jose Carlos phone call at 21:51:32 on May 3rd. 2007. I had sent the full name of Ricardo and other data to Scotland Yard Operation Grange in February, 2014. "
Paulo (51 years old) is a friend of Jose Carlos and Ricardo. All lived in Praia da Luz when Madeleine was abducted.
" A QUESTION ... I have found, in June 2013, in the first volumes of the Polícia Judiciária Files, that a man is referenced who: (a) was living near the 5A apartment, (b) was living near the location where the Smith family saw the suspect, (c) had a previous record for theft, (d) was an Ocean Club employee, (e) was not working between 09:00 pm and 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, (f) might know well the Ocean Club apartments, (g) was in the zone at 11:00 pm on May 3rd. 2007, and (h) was in the zone at the time Madeleine was abducted (confirmed by his mobile phone records). The block 5 (where the 5A apartment is) had a theft on 5L on April 17th. 2007, and an intent of theft on G5 (5G) on approximately April 26th. 2007. That is, 17 and 7 days before the abduction of Madeleine. Was this man already investigated and ruled out? "
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-new.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-new.html)
Fabulous work Heri
Have they, I wonder, checked the phones of these men for the dates of the previous break ins? Would be interesting to see, not only if they pinged close to the apartments broken into, but also if their Modus Operandi of phoning each other, happened on that/those occasions too
Wouldn't prove anything on its own, but would possibly be a minor pointer if the MO was similar
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http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-06-30/scotland-yard-to-question-four-formal-suspects-in-madeleine-mccann-investigation/ (http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-06-30/scotland-yard-to-question-four-formal-suspects-in-madeleine-mccann-investigation/)
Scotland Yard is to begin questioning four formal suspects in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, ITV News understands.
Officers will begin questioning the four people - identified as arguidos, meaning formal suspects - tomorrow at a police station in Faro, Portugal.
Eight key witnesses will also be questioned.
Why AT LAST!
Did you know that a maintenance guy, a drug addict or mental patient were suspects of taking a little child? Do you believe that a 16 year, IF burgling a place would take a child with him and not leve any forensics.
Malinka was offended by PJ, calling him again was an arrogant mistake by SY.
But then this Operation Grange is making suspects of people that used their phones close to OC antennas, and forgetting those that were closer to the children.
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Why AT LAST!
Did you know that a maintenance guy, a drug addict or mental patient were suspects of taking a little child? Do you believe that a 16 year, IF burgling a place would take a child with him and not leve any forensics.
Malinka was offended by PJ, calling him again was an arrogant mistake by SY.
But then this Operation Grange is making suspects of people that used their phones close to OC antennas, and forgetting those that were closer to the children.
The person closest to Madeleine McCann at some time on the evening of 3rd May 2007 was the person who abducted her and took her from the love and companionship of her family.
Your resistance to any search for that person is extraordinary to say the least.
You still haven't answered the question I asked;
are you the person who has torn down and defaced posters of a missing child? If you refuse to answer yet again I shall take that as a "yes".
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The person closest to Madeleine McCann at some time on the evening of 3rd May 2007 was the person who abducted her and took her from the love and companionship of her family.
Your resistance to any search for that person is extraordinary to say the least.
You still haven't answered the question I asked;
are you the person who has torn down and defaced posters of a missing child? If you refuse to answer yet again I shall take that as a "yes".
Are you crazy?!
I'm not resisting anything, I simply haven't been online for a long time.
Do you think my life revolves around the McCann?
I have a family and friends, I have a job I adore, why would I dirty my hands with this case?! The McCann don't deserve so much attention from me.
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Unlike many Mccann apologists I would never get out of my way to do anything improper. I may express my indignation online but I don't, cowardly perhaps, take any action.
I don't know who defaced the posters in PDL and I don't know who painted the wall and STOP signs.
My work is in Lisbon and even though I used to go frequently to PDL, I don't anymore. The McCann stenched it for me.
I still have properties in PDL as I have in several other places in Algarve; and yes, I am annoyed with the continuation of this harassment from the MSM on Algarve.
If UK MSM feels better by insulting other countries by publishing lies in order to excuse their own home dirt, so be it, but I don't use dirty methods and much less go on the streets.
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Are you crazy?!
I'm not resisting anything, I simply haven't been online for a long time.
Do you think my life revolves around the McCann?
I have a family and friends, I have a job I adore, why would I dirty my hands with this case?! The McCann don't deserve so much attention from me.
Why have you focused so much of your attention on them for the last 7 years then?
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Why have you focused so much of your attention on them for the last 7 years then?
It happened close to home. I have houses close to OC-PDL, and my family took direct part in the searches. My uncle and aunt paid a weeks wages for their employees to keep on the searches, my younger brother, a CEO, wasted three or four days without sleep...
But for me the case was resolved when the parents decided to flee after being named arguidos.
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Unlike many Mccann apologists I would never get out of my way to do anything improper. I may express my indignation online but I don't, cowardly perhaps, take any action.
I don't know who defaced the posters in PDL and I don't know who painted the wall and STOP signs.
My work is in Lisbon and even though I used to go frequently to PDL, I don't anymore. The McCann stenched it for me.
I still have properties in PDL as I have in several other places in Algarve; and yes, I am annoyed with the continuation of this harassment from the MSM on Algarve.
If UK MSM feels better by insulting other countries by publishing lies in order to excuse their own home dirt, so be it, but I don't use dirty methods and much less go on the streets.
I accept what you say about not having a hand in the graffiti or defacing posters in PDL; very sad you consider that inaction may be cowardly when it is indeed the people who do these things who are the cowards and who are giving the Algarve a very bad press particularly for families with children.
It is opinions such as yours posted here which tend to show the Algarve in a very poor light; profit and tourist euros reign supreme; it has become increasingly obvious that the collateral damage to individual families tolerated by the Portuguese authorities was preferable to finding people intent on preying on children in their own beds.
I can assure you that is a very, very bad advert for tourism.
A dedicated concerted effort at stamping out such outrages would have played so much better in a family orientated market - it amazes me that people with several properties in Portugal are blind to that.
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I accept what you say about not having a hand in the graffiti or defacing posters in PDL; very sad you consider that inaction may be cowardly when it is indeed the people who do these things who are the cowards and who are giving the Algarve a very bad press particularly for families with children.
It is opinions such as yours posted here which tend to show the Algarve in a very poor light; profit and tourist euros reign supreme; it has become increasingly obvious that the collateral damage to individual families tolerated by the Portuguese authorities was preferable to finding people intent on preying on children in their own beds.
I can assure you that is a very, very bad advert for tourism.
A dedicated concerted effort at stamping out such outrages would have played so much better in a family orientated market - it amazes me that people with several properties in Portugal are blind to that.
I don't care about your opinion.
I know Algarve lives from tourism and, as I don't, egotistically, I don't care much if the British prejudiced people (because there are intelligent and open minded Brits, namely in my kinship that find this McCann story a farce) keep out of Portugal all together.
Unlike you, I do believe that Portugal should have taken action long ago, not by going on the streets, but by diplomatic means. What we been enduring is outrageous.
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I don't care about your opinion.
I know Algarve lives from tourism and, as I don't, egotistically, I don't care much if the British prejudiced people (because there are intelligent and open minded Brits, namely in my kinship that find this McCann story a farce) keep out of Portugal all together.
Unlike you, I do believe that Portugal should have taken action long ago, not by going on the streets, but by diplomatic means. What we been enduring is outrageous.
Diplomacy of any kind would seem to be something entirely lacking in the Portuguese and ex pats of your acquaintance.
One can only hope your opinions do not typify those of decent Portuguese people ... and do you know what? ... I do not believe that they do.