UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Anna on November 16, 2014, 11:17:39 AM
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Cops quiz British gardener
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccann-cops-quiz-british-4636949
Maddie McCann cops quiz British gardener who worked near holiday flats in the resort of Praia da Luz
Nov 16, 2014 00:11
By Matthew Drake
The ex-pat, who still still lives in Portugals' Algarve, is being questioned about his whereabouts between the "critical hours" when little Maddie went missing.
A British gardener is being questioned about his movements over a critical two-and-a-half-hour period on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.
The ex-pat, who still lives in Portugal’s Algarve, was working near the apartment where she vanished on May 3, 2007.
This week he has been quizzed by police over his whereabouts between the critical hours of 7pm to 9.30pm, the Sunday People can reveal.
That evening Madeleine’s parents Gerry, 45, and Kate, 46, went for a meal with friends at the Ocean Club resort, Praia da Luz, where they were staying.
They left Madeleine, then three, and their two-year-old twins in their holiday flat about 80 yards away.
The self-employed gardener and handyman was seen by British and Portuguese officers at a police station in Faro on Wednesday.
The gardener, who has lived in Portugal for more than a decade, has strongly denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.
According to the official timeline of that night, dad Gerry left the meal to check on the children at apartment 5A at 9.15pm.
Kate raised the alarm at 10pm when she realised Madeleine had gone.
During the original Portuguese police probe, the gardener said he left a bar at the same resort at around 7pm that night.
The gardener, who lived with a companion in Praia da Luz until 2006, gave a mouth swab to Portuguese police when he gave his statement in 2007.
In his original interview he denied seeing anything strange at the time of Madeleine’s abduction or having ever seen the family before the abduction.
He has now been identified as one of seven new possible suspects – five men and two women – who detectives believe could hold vital information.
A British woman is also believed to have been questioned this week by officers from Operation Grange, the fresh Madeleine inquiry ordered by David Cameron three years ago.
Four others are men from Portugal and the seventh is understood to be a woman of Central or Eastern European origin.
All of them were ordered to provide fresh DNA samples which will be matched against samples of evidence taken from the resort in Praia da Luz.
Insiders said they will be classed as persons of interest – known as “arguidos” in Portuguese law.
It is understood some of the possible suspects know each other or worked together at the Ocean Club resort.
At least two are believed to have criminal records and some exchanged phone calls on the night Madeleine vanished.
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4605808.ece/alternates/s615/Praia-da-Luz.jpg)
Search: British and Portuguese police teams search a site on the outskirts of Praia da Luz in June
A source said: “Officers from Operation Grange have reviewed several statements given at the time Madeleine went missing and have identified several points they believe still need answering.
"They will interview, re-interview and then review several people and their statements and then refocus again at the end of the month.”
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said the force would not officially comment on the continuing investigation.
The developments come two weeks after it emerged that forensic experts were unable to find a DNA match for 98 hair strands found during the original police probe.
Scotland Yard experts believes these hairs could hold the key to solving the case.
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Growing suspicions!
Child abducting anaestatist burglarising paedophile gardeners.
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I find it interesting that they are taking fresh swabs. Does this mean the DNA could have gone off in the original swabs?
Oh, on rereading it, it appears that we only KNOW that one of the number had swabs taken before
But could the DNA have gone off? Is thta possible ?
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Interesting that Robert Murat translated for this British gardener &%+((£
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He is easy to find. Must be investigating the flower bed alert.
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The British gardener did provide a mouth swab when interviewed in 2007.
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The British gardener did provide a mouth swab when interviewed in 2007.
How long before this chappies pic appears in the UK nationals?
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How long before this chappies pic appears in the UK nationals?
A day after it appears in PT tabloids, I would expect.
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I think someone has already been named on Facebook, or some such.
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I think someone has already been named on Facebook, or some such.
Really? On a "Sceptic" page no doubt. But then, his name is presumably in the Police Files, is it not? So sensible of the PT authorities to release these to all and sundry. Not.
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Post subject: British gardener quizzed by police in Portugal...
Sun Nov 16, 2014
Sunday Express
British gardener quizzed by police in Portugal over Maddie McCann
A BRITISH gardener is being questioned by police over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
By: Emma Thomas
Published: Sun, November 16, 2014
The ex-pat is being quizzed over his whereabouts in a two-and-a-half hour period on the night the youngster went missing.
The man still lives in the Algarve and was working near the apartment when she went missing, reported the Sunday People.
Gerry and Kate McCann left Maddie, then three, and their two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie in their holiday apartment when they went for a meal at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.
Kate McCann called police at 10pm when she realised Maddie had gone.
The gardener and handyman has been questioned by British and Portuguese police and has strongly denied any involvement in the toddler's disappearance.
He confirmed to the newspaper he attended a police station in Faro last week.
He has been identified as one of seven new possible suspects - five men and two women.
A British woman is also thought to have been questioned this week.
Four of the men are from Portugal and the last woman is from central or eastern Europe.
The newspaper says they were ordered to hand over fresh DNA samples and some of the group knew each other or worked together at the resort.
A source said: “Officers from Operation Grange have reviewed several statements given at the time Madeleine went missing and have identified several points they believe still need answering.
"They will interview, re-interview and then review several people and their statements and then refocus again at the end of the month.”
The Met Police would not comment on the investigation.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic23928.html
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Really? On a "Sceptic" page no doubt. But then, his name is presumably in the Police Files, is it not? So sensible of the PT authorities to release these to all and sundry. Not.
Yes it's in the files Alfred.
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The game is called elimination IMO.
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Very strange about the gardener. When I read the staff statements years ago it was the first statements I went back to and read it twice. If this is the one who ate sandwiches while looking at the sea..
He also has an alibi and his alibi is quite precise:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE-JONES.htm
If his mobile data doesn't match his statement that would be interesting..
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Very strange about the gardener. When I read the staff statements years ago it was the first statements I went back to and read it twice. If this is the one who ate sandwiches while looking at the sea..
He also has an alibi and his alibi is quite precise:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE-JONES.htm
If his mobile data doesn't match his statement that would be interesting..
Perhaps it was who he rang at the camp site which was of most interest.
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Perhaps it was who he rang at the camp site which was of most interest.
Where this comes from?
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Where this comes from?
From his statement
*snip*
After this he went home to take a shower and had dinner. He left again to return to the Rainbow Bar around 21H30 and stayed there until about 23H30.
At the bar he contacted a British individual whose name is ***** who he knows has a mobile-home and was parked in the Espiche camping site and who left on Monday, 7/05/2007.
Depends on the interpretation of "contacted", I suppose.
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From his statement
*snip*
After this he went home to take a shower and had dinner. He left again to return to the Rainbow Bar around 21H30 and stayed there until about 23H30.
At the bar he contacted a British individual whose name is ***** who he knows has a mobile-home and was parked in the Espiche camping site and who left on Monday, 7/05/2007.
Depends on the interpretation of "contacted", I suppose.
I see.. I somehow missed that..
There could be lots of things. If he for example wasn't at the bar, or he said to someone else he was elsewhere or the police can track how close he was to the mast, or his phone changing masts.. but it can also be that he was telling the truth and he was interviewed for some other reason..
It's also been reported that his DNA sample was taken back in 2007. I never knew this.
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I see.. I somehow missed that..
There could be lots of things. If he for example wasn't at the bar, or he said to someone else he was elsewhere or the police can track how close he was to the mast, or his phone changing masts.. but it can also be that he was telling the truth and he was interviewed for some other reason..
It's also been reported that his DNA sample was taken back in 2007. I never knew this.
I knew that the PJ had searched his car, but I don't remember seeing the DNA authorisation when I first read his statement. I probably wouldn't have noticed it as so many other DNA swabs were requested from OC staff at the time. The files have been played around with, maybe just put in a slightly more orderly fashion by whoever has the authority....
However, I feel that he is most likely in the clear because this info would not have been released to the press otherwise.
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I knew that the PJ had searched his car, but I don't remember seeing the DNA authorisation when I first read his statement. I probably wouldn't have noticed it as so many other DNA swabs were requested from OC staff at the time. The files have been played around with, maybe just put in a slightly more orderly fashion by whoever has the authority....
However, I feel that he is most likely in the clear because this info would not have been released to the press otherwise.
I am thinking the same. Maybe he is not among the 7+5 people. Maybe they are preparing the questions for these others by questioning the gardener and the woman who had also been questioned.
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I am thinking the same. Maybe he is not among the 7+5 people. Maybe they are preparing the questions for these others by questioning the gardener and the woman who had also been questioned.
Does he have an alibi for between 7.30pm and 9.30pm?
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No doubt his mobile phone record will show his whereabouts every step of the way.
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No doubt his mobile phone record will show his whereabouts every step of the way.
I'm actually not sure how this phone thing works. I thought it was some sort of proximity. I gather that he was living somewhere in Praia da Luz.
I just find it a bit odd that he left the bar at 7.30pm and then went back at 9.30pm.
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I'm actually not sure how this phone thing works. I thought it was some sort of proximity. I gather that he was living somewhere in Praia da Luz.
I just find it a bit odd that he left the bar at 7.30pm and then went back at 9.30pm.
I was being a little facetious.
His phone should show movement back and forth, but as he lived in PDL, it is reasonable to his phone to register there, rather than it being a cause for suspicion.
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I was being a little facetious.
His phone should show movement back and forth, but as he lived in PDL, it is reasonable to his phone to register there, rather than it being a cause for suspicion.
I suppose it depends on who he was speaking to, but he still might need an alibi for those two hours. And being at home is hardly that, unless someone else was there.
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I'm actually not sure how this phone thing works. I thought it was some sort of proximity. I gather that he was living somewhere in Praia da Luz.
I just find it a bit odd that he left the bar at 7.30pm and then went back at 9.30pm.
I've got his address from the files. He lived in Espiche not PDL. He is now 60 years old.
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I've got his address from the files. He lived in Espiche not PDL.
Thanks, Pathfinder. Do you know where Espiche is?
This is odd in itself. Why go to a Bar in Pdl, leave, and then go back again? Okay, I am asking questions that probably can't be answered. But The Police aren't interested in him for no reason.
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Thanks, Pathfinder. Do you know where Espiche is?
This is odd in itself. Why go to a Bar in Pdl, leave, and then go back again? Okay, I am asking questions that probably can't be answered. But The Police aren't interested in him for no reason.
Just north of PDL - 15 minute walk.
(https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=U4aSnIyhBFNIJ3A8fCzUmaVIwyWq6RtIfB4QKiGq_w,bEtoCzxXzRdgdAMQYSCUFrEV92wz3icqSAK25c9Kiu8tcfWxROq7MxOQrhM9AsJRX3vfXxBZr2tlWxGaYKH0sPXWakenUZFDvBG0qpGXNf2FKf_0Ou_Z7T-HFQZPE34obK9PyObwt0iJ4mbf7cd776J3Uw,N_TKFyVNvxS0Su8wAeKCp0y8tj_ZI9uMxLSZjkohcGreBc[Name removed]XDX-nekVllEqp8NCWlJHElsYE-jHsNq_9Uct_ZSyl05brXBhBsLpZEz9IUvk7UnSXAbx4UrhYq7RtkaOsNKjf0ZFnF59Nr84kSE6gxAywefsOyIUocH6QWxbs_z5j6qsvlCAJvPyFTpOe_5bXntIruIvWG62N7B70vOemqeNrrmWD3XBd7KGxWpBzNGJS11OJ542FzMP9OVL9y02NKAxbsWeussLv2TlsolOq5OHYHVleoTxXy_om-onZlkcSmK7Atjf2AzWNrngT0lkZg&h=200&w=555&scale=1)
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I suppose it depends on who he was speaking to, but he still might need an alibi for those two hours. And being at home is hardly that, unless someone else was there.
I should think that there were many people who would admit to being in PDL that night who didn't have alibis? Doesn't really implicate them in anything.
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The gardener's home was searched re the files. 12 May 07. His vehicle was searched.
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Thanks again, PF.
I suppose I am basically interested in why he appears to have left PdL during the time that Madeleine went missing, and then returned again afterwards.
Okay, lots of people without alibis, perhaps. But let's face it, no one involved in an abduction is going to have an alibi.
If he had a shower during that time, did he change his clothes? I don't suppose the Bar owner will remember now.
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Thanks again, PF.
I suppose I am basically interested in why he appears to have left PdL during the time that Madeleine went missing, and then returned again afterwards.
Okay, lots of people without alibis, perhaps. But let's face it, no one involved in an abduction is going to have an alibi.
If he had a shower during that time, did he change his clothes? I don't suppose the Bar owner will remember now.
So this is a process of elimination?
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He said he went straight to the pub in Espiche after finishing work in PDL at 4pm so he would have changed out of his work clothes when he returned home at 7pm and had a shower. He went back to the same pub at 9:30.
(http://espiche.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/rainbow.jpg)
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So this is a process of elimination?
Yes, it is, one supposes.
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He said he went straight to the pub in Espiche after finishing work in PDL at 4pm so he would have changed out of his work clothes when he returned home at 7pm and had a shower. He went back to the same pub at 9:30.
(http://espiche.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/rainbow.jpg)
So when was his cell phone in PdL? And why? His cell phone was in PdL at sometime that evening, wasn't it?
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Probably yes to be investigating him but the masts are close between the two so there may be an innocent explanation. They probably want to know more about his phone call to the camp site and his DNA for elimination. A flower bed alert would indicate that gardeners are at the top of the list as possible suspects i.e. working in the gardens. But this looks like a process of elimination.
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Probably yes to be investigating him but the masts are close between the two so there may be an innocent explanation. They probably want to know more about his phone call to the camp site and his DNA for elimination. A flower bed alert would indicate that gardeners are at the top of the list as possible suspects i.e. working in the gardens. But this looks like a process of elimination.
Thanks again. Your research is excellent.
No doubt Scotland Yard will have precise information. Whether or not he told the truth in 2007 is possibly debatable. Very few people in those days, appear to have known that you can be traced by your cell phone, so he could have been fibbing in ignorance of this fact.
On the other hand, he could have been visiting his mistress. If he had a mistress.
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So when was his cell phone in PdL? And why? His cell phone was in PdL at sometime that evening, wasn't it?
I believe he was in PDL between him having a shower and going back to the pub, I find his contact who was in the campsite and owned a motorhome/camper, of more interest.
Who do we know who was British and had a camper that possibly left PDL on 7th may ,,,,,,,,,,, I think this would be of interest to SC
Who (british) owned a motorhome, that we know of.
Hewlett ..
and the friend he travelled in morocco with -ex army
The musician
Roderick
The couple who reported seeing Hewlitt
Any more?
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I believe he was in PDL between him having a shower and going back to the pub, I find his contact who was in the campsite and owned a motorhome/camper, of more interest.
Who do we know who was British and had a camper that possibly left PDL on 7th may ,,,,,,,,,,, I think this would be of interest to SC
Who (british) owned a motorhome, that we know of.
Hewlett ..
and the friend he travelled in morocco with -ex army
The musician
Roderick
The couple who reported seeing Hewlitt
Any more?
Thanks, Anna. Does anyone know exactly where the campsite was/is?
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Thanks, Anna. Does anyone know exactly where the campsite was/is?
I believe it is in Espiche ( I will find it shortly) however it was probably close to the pub. Having owned several motorhomes, I know what a caper it is to pack things away before driving anywhere, so he would cycle or walk to pub, where he was well known.
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I believe it is in Espiche ( I will find it shortly) however it was probably close to the pub. Having owned several motorhomes, I know what a caper it is to pack things away before driving anywhere, so he would cycle or walk to pub, where he was well known.
So the friend of The Gardner, who owned a Motorhome, was also well known? Or am I getting mixed up here?
But this doesn't explain why The Gardner's phone was in PdL. Unless Pathfinder is right about The Mast.
So we have The Gardner's house. The Campsite. The Bar. Or some other place in Espiche that was on the PdL Mast, some fifteen minute walk from PdL. All possible, I suppose.
But why make him an Arguido?
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So the friend of The Gardner, who owned a Motorhome, was also well known? Or am I getting mixed up here?
But this doesn't explain why The Gardner's phone was in PdL. Unless Pathfinder is right about The Mast.
So we have The Gardner's house. The Campsite. The Bar. Or some other place in Espiche that was on the PdL Mast, some fifteen minute walk from PdL. All possible, I suppose.
But why make him an Arguido?
The contact of the gardener.......The Gardener said he was british, had a motorhome at the campsite and was well known. Whether he meant he was well known to the pub or he was talking of generally known, I do not know. His association with this man, may be of interest to SC.
There are several pubs in Espiche which are close to the campsite. The phone mast may cover espiche, which is only a 5-10 min drive from PDL.
I wonder if they have questioned Roderick yet?
A review on the campsite near pubs....
Review of campsite . Turiscamping..Bungalow park
Snip:=
Espiche is literally next door to the site and is worth the short walk with several cafes and bars and three good restaurants.
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The contact of the gardener.......The Gardener said he was british, had a motorhome at the campsite and was well known. Whether he meant he was well known to the pub or he was talking of generally known, I do not know. His association with this man, may be of interest to SC.
There are several pubs in Espiche which are close to the campsite. The phone mast may cover espiche, which is only a 5-10 min drive from PDL.
I wonder if they have questioned Roderick yet?
A review on the campsite near pubs....
Review of campsite . Turiscamping..Bungalow park
Snip:=
Espiche is literally next door to the site and is worth the short walk with several cafes and bars and three good restaurants.
Me too.
I am wondering about Roderick. And in liue of what you, Misty and others have found out, is he Roderick ? ... or is he another man?
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Does anyone know when The Motorhome left the camp site?
As for the number of people involved in an abduction, it certainly had to be more than one person. More like at least three, I would say.
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From R Augostina Silva to Espiche is 2 km by car 5-10 mins. Walking is 1.8km about 25 mins. But it would depend on where in PDL to where in Espiche so 0.5km could be added or subtracted there.
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Does anyone know when The Motorhome left the camp site?
As for the number of people involved in an abduction, it certainly had to be more than one person. More like at least three, I would say.
The gardener said that his pub contact (from campsite with M/home) left on 7th may. If the record is anything like the record of boat movements in the area, the date could be wrong.
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The gardener said that his pub contact (from campsite with M/home) left on 7th may. If the record is anything like the record of boat movements in the area, the date could be wrong.
I am beginning not to like the sound of this. Or maybe I am, if it is pointing to an organised abduction to sell on for adoption.
I don't think it points to Paedophiles. In my opinion, of course.
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I am beginning not to like the sound of this. Or maybe I am, if it is pointing to an organised abduction to sell on for adoption.
I don't think it points to Paedophiles. In my opinion, of course.
A sort of one-off, never to be repeated transaction you mean?
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Thank you Anna for checking it out for me. 8((()*/
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A sort of one-off, never to be repeated transaction you mean?
Hardly likely to be repeated anywhere near Praia da Luz. But it does happen.
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I suppose this guy is still working as a self-employed gardener, when he could be living it up on ill-gotten gains.
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Me too.
I am wondering about Roderick. And in liue of what you, Misty and others have found out, is he Roderick ? ... or is he another man?
The man at the campsite was called Malcolm, no surname stated.
The Arco Iris (Rainbow Bar) has a Facebook page, if anyone is interested, with several photos on it. It is a footie-themed bar.
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I suppose this guy is still working as a self-employed gardener, when he could be living it up on ill-gotten gains.
It depends on how much one might get for an abducted child, especially if the money had to be shared.
Lots of reasons for why he might not have done a runner. It is not easy to disappear these days.
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You think that if several participants had shared not very much money, none of them would be tempted by the reward?
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You think that if several participants had shared not very much money, none of them would be tempted by the reward?
No one involved in this sort of crime is going to admit it. And I very much doubt that they would be allowed to benefit from a reward anyway.
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No one involved in this sort of crime is going to admit it. And I very much doubt that they would be allowed to benefit from a reward anyway.
Which sort of crime did you have in mind?
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No one involved in this sort of crime is going to admit it. And I very much doubt that they would be allowed to benefit from a reward anyway.
They wouldn't dare admit it.
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You think that if several participants had shared not very much money, none of them would be tempted by the reward?
Any participant in Madeleine's abduction would face a lengthy stay in jail and get no reward, maybe that's why none has been tempted?
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So the friend of The Gardner, who owned a Motorhome, was also well known? Or am I getting mixed up here?
But this doesn't explain why The Gardner's phone was in PdL. Unless Pathfinder is right about The Mast.
So we have The Gardner's house. The Campsite. The Bar. Or some other place in Espiche that was on the PdL Mast, some fifteen minute walk from PdL. All possible, I suppose.
But why make him an Arguido?
Where does it say he was made an arguido?
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Where does it say he was made an arguido?
I don't know. Is he? Perhaps I got mixed up with "The British Couple." I lost the plot a long time ago.
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When they mentioned the gardener I remembered this..
http://madeleinemaccann.blogspot.co.uk/2007_11_27_archive.html
I also remember reading the English version of it but I cannot find it now.
The photos on the bottom are of the garden I think across the road to 5A where this blogger found indication that someone stood for a long time..
These photos are from 2007! The blogger believed he photographed the place where the person watching Madeleine was standing. And that was in someone's garden. I remember this blogger was later told something, cannot remember what by the gardener of this property.. I wonder if this was the same gardener.
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To me it seems the gardener is not being treated as a suspect but as a witness.
The new suspects will be questioned from the next week but when the witnesses will be questioned or if they were already questioned we weren't told.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/11/madeleine-mccann-british-expats-seven-new-suspects?
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Thanks, Anna. Gosh, what a mess. No wonder I've lost the plot.
Is his ex partner the British Woman in question, I wonder.
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Thanks, Anna. Gosh, what a mess. No wonder I've lost the plot.
Is his ex partner the British Woman in question, I wonder.
I doubt his ex-partner is one of the SC interests, but he does keep in contact with his ex partner, so who knows.
I think the motorhome is a link, since it keeps coming up about a van and one was also seen in the Joana case...Reported by family and ignored, IIRC.
The british woman.......Could it be the one who was in PDL with her partner at the crucial time of 9-9.30
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I doubt his ex-partner is one of the SC interests, but he does keep in contact with his ex partner, so who knows.
I think the motorhome is a link, since it keeps coming up about a van and one was also seen in the Joana case...Reported by family and ignored, IIRC.
The british woman.......Could it be the one who was in PDL with her partner at the crucial time of 9-9.30
Yep, I think the Motorhome might be a link as well. And as you say, there was one seen in The Joana Cipriano Case.
By the way, I think I read that he was still living with his ex partner when Madeleine disappeared. And if this is so, them she could well know something of what he was doing at the time.
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I just love the way people clutch at straws @)(++(*
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I just love the way people clutch at straws @)(++(*
We call it Hope. Scotland Yard call it Evidence.
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We call it Hope. Scotland Yard call it Evidence.
People staying in motorhomes at campsites.
That sounds like evidence of camping to me.
What use is that?
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Well I hope that the person(s) responsible for her disappearance are brought to justice. I don't expect anything else.
There - I've made my position clear, how about others ?
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4 May 2007
At 08.00 the GNR Search and Rescue sniffer dog team came into action, searches were begun from the resort in the direction of the beach, covering a 2 km area; in Praia da Luz 300m radius searches were made as well searches of abandoned houses, wells and waste land, the radius subsequently being expanded to 600m including the verges of the EN 125 motorway.
Subsequently an attempt was made to reconstruct the route taken by Madeleine by giving the dogs a blanket/towel used by her, but the results were not significant, given that the dogs are more trained for use in rural areas rather than urban or populated areas, the existence of more odours in the air making it impossible for the tracker dog to identify/locate the “target smell”.
Searches were also carried out in two camping parks in Espiche and in Praia da Luz to inspect the bungalows whose occupants had left on the day of the disappearance; the searches were extended to line searches with the help of Portimao GNR soldiers over a larger area, searches having been made of all the vehicles parked in the Praia da Luz car parks. Subsequently, the searches were extended to the villages of Barao de S. Joao, Burgau, Bensafrim and Salema.
A few days later 6 members of the Algarve canine team also participated in the searches.
On the following day, SNBPC helicopter searches were made, covering the entire area between the coast line and the EN 125, in sweeps, from N/S direction to try to find the girl, under the hypothetical possibility that she could have left the resort on foot, got lost and could be walking in the area.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
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4 May 2007
At 08.00 the GNR Search and Rescue sniffer dog team came into action, searches were begun from the resort in the direction of the beach, covering a 2 km area; in Praia da Luz 300m radius searches were made as well searches of abandoned houses, wells and waste land, the radius subsequently being expanded to 600m including the verges of the EN 125 motorway.
Subsequently an attempt was made to reconstruct the route taken by Madeleine by giving the dogs a blanket/towel used by her, but the results were not significant, given that the dogs are more trained for use in rural areas rather than urban or populated areas, the existence of more odours in the air making it impossible for the tracker dog to identify/locate the “target smell”.
Searches were also carried out in two camping parks in Espiche and in Praia da Luz to inspect the bungalows whose occupants had left on the day of the disappearance; the searches were extended to line searches with the help of Portimao GNR soldiers over a larger area, searches having been made of all the vehicles parked in the Praia da Luz car parks. Subsequently, the searches were extended to the villages of Barao de S. Joao, Burgau, Bensafrim and Salema.
A few days later 6 members of the Algarve canine team also participated in the searches.
On the following day, SNBPC helicopter searches were made, covering the entire area between the coast line and the EN 125, in sweeps, from N/S direction to try to find the girl, under the hypothetical possibility that she could have left the resort on foot, got lost and could be walking in the area.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
So they inspected the vacated (rental) motorhomes. What are you saying?
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Why would they want to examine holiday home that had been vacated the day of the disappearance? Examination of those vacated in the following days would make more sense.
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Why would they want to examine holiday home that had been vacated the day of the disappearance? Examination of those vacated in the following days would make more sense.
Do you think the Met are really, really stupid? Just wondering...
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Why would they want to examine holiday home that had been vacated the day of the disappearance? Examination of those vacated in the following days would make more sense.
Exactly Jassi.
Why were the occupied, owned, motorhomes not searched, by PJ, I wonder and did they get the Numbers of those who left in their own vans. The site should have licence numbers on their records.
Anyway, I think we are going off topic.
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So they inspected the vacated (rental) motorhomes. What are you saying?
A caravan park is not the wisest place to bring a kidnapped child with prying eyes and a place where the police would go to search! Did anybody report seeing a child like Madeleine being seen at a campsite just after she disappeared or strange behaviour? I wonder if the caravan was parked on the beach @)(++(*
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Well I hope that the person(s) responsible for her disappearance are brought to justice. I don't expect anything else.
There - I've made my position clear, how about others ?
That is my view too!
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Well I hope that the person(s) responsible for her disappearance are brought to justice. I don't expect anything else.
There - I've made my position clear, how about others ?
Do you not think everyone feels the same or do you think some don't want the guilty punished
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A caravan park is not the wisest place to bring a kidnapped child with prying eyes and a place where the police would go to search! Did anybody report seeing a child like Madeleine being seen at a campsite just after she disappeared or strange behaviour? I wonder if the caravan was parked on the beach @)(++(*
Link at bottom. There was another in france, but not got it
Also don't forget that places where children play are target areas for such people
RR Sexually assaulted a few girls in a boat , where the father was in the next room and assaulted again in a caravan site. They are not too clever
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-groggy-looking-girl-identical-823747
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(http://i.imgur.com/1OkONTZ.jpg?1-Espiche-Madeleine_McCann-camping)
Noticeable that the village of Espiche is on the main route into and out of Luz. The tourist camp is the first thing you come to as you approach the village from the east, located adjacent to the N125 marker on the above map.
(http://i.imgur.com/QJyLq1u.jpg?1-Espiche-Madeleine_McCann-camping)
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When they mentioned the gardener I remembered this..
http://madeleinemaccann.blogspot.co.uk/2007_11_27_archive.html
I also remember reading the English version of it but I cannot find it now.
The photos on the bottom are of the garden I think across the road to 5A where this blogger found indication that someone stood for a long time..
These photos are from 2007! The blogger believed he photographed the place where the person watching Madeleine was standing. And that was in someone's garden. I remember this blogger was later told something, cannot remember what by the gardener of this property.. I wonder if this was the same gardener.
Thank you for this link, V.
The photographs give a real idea of the amount of cover given by the trees in front of 5a, particularly the one with the blue recliners in the foreground.
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"left a bar at the same resort at around 7pm"
Typical UK newspaper inaccuracy.
As pointed out by Misty and John, the bar was not at Luz, it was at Espiche.
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From his statement
*snip*
After this he went home to take a shower and had dinner. He left again to return to the Rainbow Bar around 21H30 and stayed there until about 23H30.
At the bar he contacted a British individual whose name is ***** who he knows has a mobile-home and was parked in the Espiche camping site and who left on Monday, 7/05/2007.
Depends on the interpretation of "contacted", I suppose.
I never rely on internet translations, always check the original, it is easy to do.
The internet translation "contacted" is wrong.
Original text is "foi contactar"
Which means approximately "was contacted"
I suggest it means "spoke face to face" as there is no mention of a phone.
All irrelevant anyway.
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I never rely on internet translations, always check the original, it is easy to do.
The internet translation "contacted" is wrong.
Original text is "foi contactar"
Which means approximately "was contacted"
I suggest it means "spoke face to face" as there is no mention of a phone.
All irrelevant anyway.
Murat did the translation from English to Portuguese. Are you suggesting he didn't know the difference between contacted & met in Portuguese?
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Murat did the translation from English to Portuguese. Are you suggesting he didn't know the difference between contacted & met in Portuguese?
I was talking about Mr Amaral's book which is in portuguese (not about a statement).
The internet translation into English is unofficial, very useful, but does have inaccuracies.
Therefore it is a simple and fair thing to refer to the original where the text reads "foi contactar".
It is easy - and I don't speak portuguese - copy the text from the original portuguese and paste into a translation site.
I can give you a link to the original portuguese text if you want?
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I was talking about Mr Amaral's book which is in portuguese (not about a statement).
The internet translation into English is unofficial, very useful, but does have inaccuracies.
Therefore it is a simple and fair thing to refer to the original where the text reads "foi contactar".
It is easy - and I don't speak portuguese - copy the text from the original portuguese and paste into a translation site.
I can give you a link to the original portuguese text if you want?
Sorry - your previous post was referring to the "contacted" in the gardener's statement.
I have looked at the original text & am surprised at the obvious omissions in the English translations - namely where he had worked on the afternoon of the 3rd & for whom.
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Sorry - your previous post was referring to the "contacted" in the gardener's statement.
I have looked at the original text & am surprised at the obvious omissions in the English translations - namely where he had worked on the afternoon of the 3rd & for whom.
Mr Amarals book is in portuguese. It is good to look at his original portuguese book (and not rely on some internet english translation).
The witness statement was given in English but we do not have the original English. The most original version we have is the portuguese version in the files. So is good to read that portuguese (and not read a internet translation back to english).
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So : COPS QUIZ BRITISH GARDENER.....
Well I dont think they have yet have they or am I missing something? I thought the visit to PDL was cancelled....?
Or am i going into the twighlight zone again *&*%£. You see clever editing by Editor of Daily Express it almost reads as though they have already spoken to him............
The article reads:
“Officers from Operation Grange have reviewed several statements given at the time Madeleine went missing and have identified several points they believe still need answering.
"They will interview, re-interview and then review several people and their statements and then refocus again at the end of the month.”
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said the force would not officially comment on the continuing investigation.
The developments come two weeks after it emerged that forensic experts were unable to find a DNA match for 98 hair strands found during the original police probe.
Scotland Yard experts believes these hairs could hold the key to solving the case..................
..................................................................
So now this gardener by the powers of the Internet, forums and facebook has been named and shamed, and is a pervy pedophile who snatches young blonde children whilst tending the daisys, and also oh yeh belongs to a trafficking gang............................and we wonder why people kill themselves...............
jeez....give this guy a break. It would be remiss not to go over some of the statements again, perhaps that is all they have left.....as to hairs well if he was tending garden in Apartment 5A perhaps over time he has been in there when the apartment was vacant to get water to water the garden etc who knows......
The Daily Express is like the Daily Mirror full of inaccuracies....weird that I cant find this anywhere on Portugese news sites only about Murat.....
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I never rely on internet translations, always check the original, it is easy to do.
The internet translation "contacted" is wrong.
Original text is "foi contactar"
Which means approximately "was contacted"
I suggest it means "spoke face to face" as there is no mention of a phone.
All irrelevant anyway.
Sorry, but the internet translation is correct. "Foi contactar" means "he contacted". "Was contacted" would be "foi contactado" in Portuguese.
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So : COPS QUIZ BRITISH GARDENER.....
Well I dont think they have yet have they or am I missing something? I thought the visit to PDL was cancelled....?
Or am i going into the twighlight zone again *&*%£. You see clever editing by Editor of Daily Express it almost reads as though they have already spoken to him............
The article reads:
“Officers from Operation Grange have reviewed several statements given at the time Madeleine went missing and have identified several points they believe still need answering.
"They will interview, re-interview and then review several people and their statements and then refocus again at the end of the month.”
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said the force would not officially comment on the continuing investigation.
The developments come two weeks after it emerged that forensic experts were unable to find a DNA match for 98 hair strands found during the original police probe.
Scotland Yard experts believes these hairs could hold the key to solving the case..................
..................................................................
So now this gardener by the powers of the Internet, forums and facebook has been named and shamed, and is a pervy pedophile who snatches young blonde children whilst tending the daisys, and also oh yeh belongs to a trafficking gang............................and we wonder why people kill themselves...............
jeez....give this guy a break. It would be remiss not to go over some of the statements again, perhaps that is all they have left.....as to hairs well if he was tending garden in Apartment 5A perhaps over time he has been in there when the apartment was vacant to get water to water the garden etc who knows......
The Daily Express is like the Daily Mirror full of inaccuracies....weird that I cant find this anywhere on Portugese news sites only about Murat.....
My post to you was in precise reference to two points you made...it has everything to do with your post...not sure about your reference to starting a war
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccann-investigators-quiz-british-4678191
Maddie McCann investigators quiz British expat for second time
Nov 23, 2014 00:01
By David Collins
Gardener who worked in Praia da Luz, Portugal, when the youngster went missing denies ever seeing her
A British gardener quizzed for the second time over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal has said: “I never saw her.”
The expat, who worked at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz where Madeleine went missing, was grilled on his whereabouts on the night she vanished aged three in May 2007.
But the man, who still lives on the Algarve, insists: “I wasn’t there. I was in a bar somewhere else.”
He denied giving a swab for DNA in the original probe – though Portuguese police papers claim he did.
A British woman is also believed to have been questioned in Operation Grange, the fresh inquiry ordered by David Cameron.
Four Portuguese men and a Central or Eastern European woman are also believed to be involved in the new probe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can the PJ files on the internet really be trusted?
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccann-investigators-quiz-british-4678191
Maddie McCann investigators quiz British expat for second time
Nov 23, 2014 00:01
By David Collins
Gardener who worked in Praia da Luz, Portugal, when the youngster went missing denies ever seeing her
A British gardener quizzed for the second time over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal has said: “I never saw her.”
The expat, who worked at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz where Madeleine went missing, was grilled on his whereabouts on the night she vanished aged three in May 2007.
But the man, who still lives on the Algarve, insists: “I wasn’t there. I was in a bar somewhere else.”
He denied giving a swab for DNA in the original probe – though Portuguese police papers claim he did.
A British woman is also believed to have been questioned in Operation Grange, the fresh inquiry ordered by David Cameron.
Four Portuguese men and a Central or Eastern European woman are also believed to be involved in the new probe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can the PJ files on the internet really be trusted?
Or is it the media, Portuguese or British, who can't be trusted ?
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccann-investigators-quiz-british-4678191
Maddie McCann investigators quiz British expat for second time
Nov 23, 2014 00:01
By David Collins
Gardener who worked in Praia da Luz, Portugal, when the youngster went missing denies ever seeing her
A British gardener quizzed for the second time over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal has said: “I never saw her.”
The expat, who worked at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz where Madeleine went missing, was grilled on his whereabouts on the night she vanished aged three in May 2007.
But the man, who still lives on the Algarve, insists: “I wasn’t there. I was in a bar somewhere else.”
He denied giving a swab for DNA in the original probe – though Portuguese police papers claim he did.
A British woman is also believed to have been questioned in Operation Grange, the fresh inquiry ordered by David Cameron.
Four Portuguese men and a Central or Eastern European woman are also believed to be involved in the new probe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can the PJ files on the internet really be trusted?
Sorry anyone who follows the rubbish in the red top newspapers, and believes its truth well ...... nuff said.
These papers make things up as they go along or use poetic licence.........and get away with most of it.
I do not TRUST ANYTHING in the Red Top newspapers ever thats why i never read them......most people can hardly get past page 3 anyway.
And please tell me when was he quizzed for the second time? SY have cancelled their visit .......... or did they do it on Skype? &%+((£
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Everything is being played around with Misty, even GEarth. Clouds suddenly appear over interesting bits. GEarth street scene doesn't go past the interesting places, but turns off despite the blue line going to the right place.
At one time of you entered Flat 5a, Ocean Club, Praia de Luz, Lagos ... GEarth would fly you east, several miles away along the coast .... and you would be looking at a cliff top villa near Carvoeiro
Something very sinister is happening IMO
Something mega is being hidden. Some massive moneymaking scam IMO
What worries me is that we, the pr0s, are providing information that these people now know they must hide or change ... otherwise they will lose. We are proving too much
Sinister and frightening for the future of Justice in the World, if facts can be altered.
Do you remember the Pat Brown Fiasco? How a beautiful run of trees was cut down and new very brash lighting was introduced, then Pat Brown brought in to "prove" .. ahem ... that of course no abduction could have happened via that window.
She claimed it was too overlooked. Was she in on what had happened, how the trees had been felled and new lighting fitted, or not?
VERY sinister
No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the universe gets that.
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No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the universe gets that.
This must be thursday.
I never could get the hang of thursdays.
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This must be thursday.
I never could get the hang of thursdays.
@)(++(*
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Updated version of earlier report.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-investigators-quiz-british-4678191
Perhaps Admin or someone would be good enough to upload the pictures as I'm no good at the technical stuff.
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4675816.ece/alternates/s615b/gardner.jpg)
Questions: The Brit, his identity hidden, who worked at Maddie resort.
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Updated version of earlier report.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-investigators-quiz-british-4678191
Perhaps Admin or someone would be good enough to upload the pictures as I'm no good at the technical stuff.
Another innocent person being hounded. He seems like a nice man and deals with it very well.
BTW remember the Smith family saw a man walking south on Rua Escola, now the Mirror have used their geographical expertise to draw a route which makes the smith sighting absolutely impossible (photo from above article)
http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2435054.ece/alternates/s1227b/mccann-route.jpg
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Another innocent person being hounded. He seems like a nice man and deals with it very well.
BTW remember the Smith family saw a man walking south on Rua Escola, now the Mirror have used their geographical expertise to draw a route which makes the smith sighting absolutely impossible (photo from above article)
http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2435054.ece/alternates/s1227b/mccann-route.jpg
That map is a load of garbage. No surprises there then where the English press are concerned. %£&)**# @)(++(*
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what IQ one must have to get a job as a reporter?
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Or is it the media, Portuguese or British, who can't be trusted ?
I am not sure who is lying... either the files or the UK papers or the gardener
There is a consent of taking a swab from him mentioned in the files, there is a photo of it on the left.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE-JONES.htm
consent letter
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_977.jpg
but then as long as I understand the concern is about his car, not him..
Further, I am thinking if they were to examine his car they would definitely take his DNA sample so they are able to distinguish his sample from other samples in the car..
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Updated version of earlier report.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-investigators-quiz-british-4678191
Perhaps Admin or someone would be good enough to upload the pictures as I'm no good at the technical stuff.
Here you go Misty. The main photo only, I am afraid cos when I copy and paste the article it brings up hidden names and words that are not in the actual article.
http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4675816.ece/alternates/s615b/gardner.jpg
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4675816.ece/alternates/s615b/gardner.jpg)
As Angelo says, unless The Smiths are totally lying the map drawn is a load of rubbish, so I am not downloading that either.
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Thank you, Sadie.
He has a good head of hair for a middle-aged British guy.
As Angelo says, unless The Smiths are totally lying the map drawn is a load of rubbish, so I am not downloading that either.
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I am not sure who is lying... either the files or the UK papers or the gardener
There is a consent of taking a swab from him mentioned in the files, there is a photo of it on the left.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE-JONES.htm
consent letter
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_977.jpg
but then as long as I understand the concern is about his car, not him..
Further, I am thinking if they were to examine his car they would definitely take his DNA sample so they are able to distinguish his sample from other samples in the car..
In this instance, neither the PJ nor the gardener appear to be lying.
It seems that the Mirror didn't spend much time checking facts.
I can't find anything in the files concerning a DNA mouth swab for this person. All I can find is a mistaken heading in English on Pamalam's site (mccannpjfiles) of a document in Portuguese that wasn't translated anyway. The heading stated that the document was a consent form for a mouth swab, but it wasn't. The document in question was a consent form for a house search, not a mouth swab. (There is also a consent form to search a car and a search warrant, but still nothing to do with a DNA swab.)
That's it.
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In this instance, neither the PJ nor the gardener appear to be lying.
It seems that the Mirror didn't spend much time checking facts.
I can't find anything in the files concerning a DNA mouth swab for this person. All I can find is a mistaken heading in English on Pamalam's site (mccannpjfiles) of a document in Portuguese that wasn't translated anyway. The heading stated that the document was a consent form for a mouth swab, but it wasn't. The document in question was a consent form for a house search, not a mouth swab. (There is also a consent form to search a car and a search warrant, but still nothing to do with a DNA swab.)
That's it.
Well done Carana.
You are correct, page 978 is consent for a house search.
As you say the party that gets its facts wrong is the UK newspaper through investigative laziness.
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Well done Carana.
You are correct, page 978 is consent for a house search.
As you say the party that gets its facts wrong is the UK newspaper through investigative laziness.
Yes, well done Carana.
Question is, why did the translators put the wrong header on the document & index?
Now, I'm going to throw something else in here - I thought he had a 4th name when I first read his statement - something like Lane - does anyone else remember that or is my memory playing tricks?
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In this instance, neither the PJ nor the gardener appear to be lying.
It seems that the Mirror didn't spend much time checking facts.
I can't find anything in the files concerning a DNA mouth swab for this person. All I can find is a mistaken heading in English on Pamalam's site (mccannpjfiles) of a document in Portuguese that wasn't translated anyway. The heading stated that the document was a consent form for a mouth swab, but it wasn't. The document in question was a consent form for a house search, not a mouth swab. (There is also a consent form to search a car and a search warrant, but still nothing to do with a DNA swab.)
That's it.
A good example of why we should take ALL translations put on the net by amateurs with a pinch of salt.
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A good example of why we should take ALL translations put on the net by amateurs with a pinch of salt.
Particularly amateurs who may be promoting an agenda ... perhaps even subconsciously.
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Particularly amateurs who may be promoting an agenda ... perhaps even subconsciously.
Such as yourself and alfred. 8)-)))
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A good example of why we should take ALL translations put on the net by amateurs with a pinch of salt.
Well, mistakes happen. It wasn't a mistranslation as such since the content of the form doesn't appear to have been translated, but a mistaken reference title (the same mistaken one is on maddiecasefiles as well).
The translators were doing this in their spare time for free, but the red top hacks are paid - twice, in fact. Once to say that he'd been swabbed and again a few days later to say that he denies it.
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It is strange how the soggy note had the full name written including middle name.
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It is strange how the soggy note had the full name written including middle name.
One has to wonder why.
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It is strange how the soggy note had the full name written including middle name.
I cannot find any reference to this note, nor any reference to the reservoir actually being searched despite many references to the intent. Maybe the shelving of the case overtook events.
**snip**
The decision is not believed to follow any specific new intelligence but the realisation that the beauty spot has not been properly checked.
It was given only a cursory search on May 7, four days after Madeleine went missing.
New chief investigator Paulo Rebelo, 45, has also demanded searches in all areas within 10 miles of Praia da Luz.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/is-madeleine-mccann-in-reservoir-513599
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I cannot find any reference to this note, nor any reference to the reservoir actually being searched despite many references to the intent. Maybe the shelving of the case overtook events.
**snip**
The decision is not believed to follow any specific new intelligence but the realisation that the beauty spot has not been properly checked.
It was given only a cursory search on May 7, four days after Madeleine went missing.
New chief investigator Paulo Rebelo, 45, has also demanded searches in all areas within 10 miles of Praia da Luz.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/is-madeleine-mccann-in-reservoir-513599
I can't find any reference to searches of the dam after 8 May (which involved a boat checking the surface).
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I've already pointed out that the UK press is IMO misquoting this honest witmess.
What they are misquoting him on is the date the note was found.
The UK press claim he said it was found on 3 May 2008.
And they use that misquote to accuse the PJ of ignoring it.
The truth IMO is that the note was found 3 Oct 2007 latest, and when it was handed to PJ, they immediately diverted resources away from the searches based on phone forensics very close to and southwest of PDL, to search this distant lake and the surrounding forest with no phone forensics pointing there.
Never trust the UK press when they accidentally misquote an honest witness then invent a story which falsely critisises the PJ.
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If a UK newspaper assures you it is p***ing down, but you look outside and see peeps in shirtsleeves standing on dry ground in the blazing sun, or releasing balloons over a church into an almost clear sky and not a brolly in sight, who do you trust? Your eyes and the photographs and the rainfall records? Or the newspaper?
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Where are you getting PDL weather forecast? I can get Faro. There was rain on Tue 13 May. Gardener works Wed.
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Where are you getting PDL weather forecast? I can get Faro. There was rain on Tue 13 May. Gardener works Wed.
Most weather sites are no help however this one is great
The column to look at is PP (rainfall in millimetres)
Weather preceding 3rd May 2008
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/SAGRES/05-2008/85330.htm
Dry as a bone.
Confirming our photos, and rubbishing the UK newspaper.
Weather preceding 3rd Oct 2007
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/SAGRES/10-2007/85330.htm
Rain, rain.
And you did ask for a Wednesday right?
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Most weather sites are no help however this one is great
The column to look at is PP (rainfall in millimetres)
Weather preceding 3rd May 2008
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/SAGRES/05-2008/85330.htm
Dry as a bone.
Confirming our photos, and rubbishing the UK newspaper.
Weather preceding 3rd Oct 2007
http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/SAGRES/10-2007/85330.htm
Rain, rain.
And you did ask for a Wednesday right?
Thanks Pegasus. I will have a look tomorrow. Goodnight.
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Thanks Pegasus. I will have a look tomorrow. Goodnight.
This witness worked daytime.
So the rain, as he says (video), is the preceding night.
3 Oct is the only Wednesday which has rain preceding and which is anniversary.
The witness is 100% honest.
The newspaper IMO misquoted by adding their own wrong date.
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This witness worked daytime.
So the rain, as he says (video), is the preceding night.
3 Oct is the only Wednesday which has rain preceding and which is anniversary.
The witness is 100% honest.
The newspaper IMO misquoted by adding their own wrong date.
Pegasus, why do you always state "The witness is 100% honest"? I can understand if you added IMO.
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Pegasus, why do you always state "The witness is 100% honest"? I can understand if you added IMO.
See signature.
Obviously just my opinion but I did research it, everything checks out, for example the newspapers are talking 100% rubbish when they say a swab was done in 2007, and the man is telling the truth when he says it wasn't, look at the page the lazy papers say is a swab, it's not.
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See signature.
Obviously just my opinion but I did research it, everything checks out, for example the newspapers are talking 100% rubbish when they say a swab was done in 2007, and the man is telling the truth when he says it wasn't, look at the page the lazy papers say is a swab, it's not.
I have no idea whether this guy is 100% honest or not. What I've been able to verify is that he did not have a DNA swab taken in 2007, so he's quite right about that.
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See signature.
Obviously just my opinion but I did research it, everything checks out, for example the newspapers are talking 100% rubbish when they say a swab was done in 2007, and the man is telling the truth when he says it wasn't, look at the page the lazy papers say is a swab, it's not.
When the official files lead you to believe a DNA swab has been taken from a suspect whose house & vehicle the PJ felt they had a reason to inspect, it is rather strange to subsequently discover that no swab was ever requested. I wonder what specific reason the PJ had for suspecting this man to such a degree that a house/vehicle search was deemed necessary?
!00% innocent my ****. He's had 6 years to go to the local press about that note.
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When the official files lead you to believe a DNA swab has been taken ...
No, there is absolutely nothing in the official files which say a dna swab was taken.
Which page number in the files are you claiming mentions a dna swab?
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No, there is absolutely nothing in the official files which say a dna swab was taken.
Which page number in the files are you claiming mentions a dna swab?
The misleading main index & header of p 978.
Rather like the Ukranian witnesses - recorded in such a way as to mislead.
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The misleading main index & header of p 978.
Rather like the Ukranian witnesses - recorded in such a way as to mislead.
No, page 978 is not misleading, it is clear and easy to understand, with no mention of any dna swab.
Are you sure you are not referring to a website owner's accidental mistake on an index page of his/her useful but unofficial website?
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See signature.
Obviously just my opinion but I did research it, everything checks out, for example the newspapers are talking 100% rubbish when they say a swab was done in 2007, and the man is telling the truth when he says it wasn't, look at the page the lazy papers say is a swab, it's not.
No problem. It just implies some evidence behind the assertion.
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No, page 978 is not misleading, it is clear and easy to understand, with no mention of any dna swab.
Are you sure you are not referring to a website owner's accidental mistake on an index page of his/her useful but unofficial website?
The page itself is not misleading, merely the index & the header. None of us had checked the translation - why would we deem it necessary to check the wording of a consent form - the question is why somebody would want us to believe the guy had been DNA tested & therefore effectively ruled out of the PJ investigation?
If we have to question the accuracy & validity of everything in those files then all arguments for & against are worthless.
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No problem. It just implies some evidence behind the assertion.
Yes indeed evidence has already been posted showing the witness is telling the truth about the rain, about no swab having been done, and about the location of the bar.
If you prefer to believe the UK newspapers who mistakenly give a find date that was dry, who wrongly state the bar was in PDL, and who mistakenly state a swab was done, that is your privilege.
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The page itself is not misleading, merely the index & the header. None of us had checked the translation - why would we deem it necessary to check the wording of a consent form - the question is why somebody would want us to believe the guy had been DNA tested & therefore effectively ruled out of the PJ investigation?
If we have to question the accuracy & validity of everything in those files then all arguments for & against are worthless.
The index and header you refer to are not part of the files, they are an index written by an independent website.
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Yes indeed evidence has already been posted showing the witness is telling the truth about the rain, about no swab having been done, and about the location of the bar.
If you prefer to believe the UK newspapers who mistakenly give a find date that was dry, who wrongly state the bar was in PDL, and who mistakenly state a swab was done, that is your privilege.
I didn't say I did...
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I didn't say I did...
Checked 3 discrepancies between what the witness said and what journos added, found evidence that the witness is honest and accurate on all 3 points, so my conclusion is 100% honest.
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The documents are correctly labelled elsewhere on that site. For some reason, there was a mix-up on the pages close to his statement.
And, no, there was no DNA swab.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_4_1.htm
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Thanks Carana. Confirms that the witness who says "no swab done" is honest. And that the UK media who say "swab done" are wrong.
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The documents are correctly labelled elsewhere on that site. For some reason, there was a mix-up on the pages close to his statement.
And, no, there was no DNA swab.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_4_1.htm
Yes, it is clear there was no request for a DNA swab.
So, why has Ines the translator apparently omitted the details of where the gardener was working on the afternoon on the 3rd, and for whom?
Again, what is there in the statement to suggest that this man, rather than many other OC employees, warranted having his house & car searched by the PJ?
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Checked 3 discrepancies between what the witness said and what journos added, found evidence that the witness is honest and accurate on all 3 points, so my conclusion is 100% honest.
Please consider ... what the witness said matched the statement he gave to the police.
Its honesty and accuracy, in line with the majority of witness statements, seems to have been accepted as such at the time since no further investigation appears to have been carried out.
Some of that lack of investigation seems to have been remiss given that Operation Grange discovered so many persons of interest they thought it necessary to interview again.
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The interest may go no further than wanting to clarify something from the original statement.
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... why has Ines the translator apparently omitted the details of where the gardener was working on the afternoon on the 3rd, and for whom? ...
Forum translators sometimes omit ancillary names and addresses out of respect for privacy.
They have have done a fantastic job for us, and deserve our thanks IMO.
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Forum translators sometimes omit ancillary names and addresses out of respect for privacy.
They have have done a fantastic job for us, and deserve our thanks IMO.
Sorry to disagree, pegasus, IMO the release of the files into the public domain concerning Madeleine's case in the manner they were, are a huge breach of the confidentiality of witnesses.
Apart from being unprecedented ... it doesn't half drive a coach and horses right through alleged judicial secrecy laws. The fact that they are sometimes inaccurate and certainly incomplete makes them of little true value.
It remains to be seen if they may not yet compromise the present investigation and perhaps have the potential to prejudice the prosecution of perpetrators if and when found.
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Sorry to disagree, pegasus, IMO the release of the files into the public domain concerning Madeleine's case in the manner they were, are a huge breach of the confidentiality of witnesses.
Apart from being unprecedented ... it doesn't half drive a coach and horses right through alleged judicial secrecy laws. The fact that they are sometimes inaccurate and certainly incomplete makes them of little true value.
It remains to be seen if they may not yet compromise the present investigation and perhaps have the potential to prejudice the prosecution of perpetrators if and when found.
It was not forum translators who released the files. When forum translators blank out some names, I think that's good. I do the same.
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Sorry to disagree, pegasus, IMO the release of the files into the public domain concerning Madeleine's case in the manner they were, are a huge breach of the confidentiality of witnesses.
Apart from being unprecedented ... it doesn't half drive a coach and horses right through alleged judicial secrecy laws. The fact that they are sometimes inaccurate and certainly incomplete makes them of little true value.
It remains to be seen if they may not yet compromise the present investigation and perhaps have the potential to prejudice the prosecution of perpetrators if and when found.
Clearly Clarence Mitchell did not think so as he thought the Portuguese Judiciary should hand the files over to McCanns investigators.
Items taken from this link.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id126.html
Mr Mitchell said the family wanted to know whether police now planned to stop searching for Madeleine.
If so, he said, all the information held by the police must be made public so the McCanns could carry on their own hunt.
"What happens to all those leads, all those contacts? There are thousands of pieces of information in those files," he said.
"What we don't want is that information to lie on a shelf somewhere gathering dust.
"Surely it's only humane and decent that information that could help find Madeleine comes to the investigators who will keep looking for her even if the police feel they can't."
The McCanns have their own "very sophisticated intelligence gathering operation", Mr Mitchell added.
The content of this snip is interesting.
Given the fact that the investigation considered the possibility that Maddie's disappearance, on the evening of May 3, 2007, from an apartment in Praia da Luz, Lagos, originated from a homicide, the Public Ministry understands that the exposure or abandonment, or simple neglect, are crimes of a lesser importance. Therefore, the case returns to zero, with the McCann couple, but also with Robert Murat, the British man who was a formal suspect for abduction, since the beginning of the investigation, cleared in this entire process.
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We know for a fact that the note had written on it the full name including middle name.
If the note was a prank, or a real clue, or a deliberate diversion away from the searches southwest of PDL, why would it include the middle name? It seems pointless and strange to include it.
(PS could it be simply a dropped page from a journo's notebook?)
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We know for a fact that the note had written on it the full name including middle name.
If the note was a prank, or a real clue, or a deliberate diversion away from the searches southwest of PDL, why would it include the middle name? It seems pointless and strange to include it.
(PS could it be simply a dropped page from a journo's notebook?)
Apart from a tabloid ... where is the provenance of this letter?
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Apart from a tabloid ... where is the provenance of this letter?
Exactly. We don't know anything 'for a fact'.
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Exactly. We don't know anything 'for a fact'.
We have more than what a tabloid journo wrote (much of which as usual is incorrect).
We have video and audio of the witness talking about the note, that much you can trust and take to be true.
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We have more than what a tabloid journo wrote (much of which as usual is incorrect).
We have video and audio of the witness talking about the note, that much you can trust and take to be true.
Sr. Amaral was televised talking about a fridge, whilst standing next to a fridge, as he claimed that Madeleine had been stored in a fridge before being disposed of by her parents.
Now, what did that handyman/gardener say in his innocuous statement which gave the PJ grounds to search his house & the car he was using when Madeleine went missing?
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A witness said he was seen there on the night. He said that in the mirror interview so I presume the PJ heard from the same witness and searched his home and car.
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Sr. Amaral was televised talking about a fridge, whilst standing next to a fridge, as he claimed that Madeleine had been stored in a fridge before being disposed of by her parents.
Now, what did that handyman/gardener say in his innocuous statement which gave the PJ grounds to search his house & the car he was using when Madeleine went missing?
I think there were elements of the investigation who did an exemplary job, unfortunately those foot soldiers were let down very badly by the insistence of pursuing Dr Amaral's theory to the exclusion of all others.
I think tailoring the evidence to suit the theory rather than following the evidence ruined any other investigative possibility as well as the chance of recovering Madeleine shortly after her disappearance.
If the gardener was investigated to that extent the PJ must have had good reason for it and it would appear that SY are following that information. We need to keep reminding ourselves that they are privy to professional translations of the files including those which were never in the public domain.
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I think there were elements of the investigation who did an exemplary job, unfortunately those foot soldiers were let down very badly by the insistence of pursuing Dr Amaral's theory to the exclusion of all others.
I think tailoring the evidence to suit the theory rather than following the evidence ruined any other investigative possibility as well as the chance of recovering Madeleine shortly after her disappearance.
If the gardener was investigated to that extent the PJ must have had good reason for it and it would appear that SY are following that information. We need to keep reminding ourselves that they are privy to professional translations of the files including those which were never in the public domain.
And we need to keep reming ourselves that SY pointed Summers and wife to the very same file translations you and your ilk try continuously to undermine.
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A witness said he was seen there on the night. He said that in the mirror interview so I presume the PJ heard from the same witness and searched his home and car.
Thank you for confirming that, I wasn't sure I had heard the remark correctly as the audio is garbled.
Interesting, especially looking at his build & haircut.
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Thank you for confirming that, I wasn't sure I had heard the remark correctly as the audio is garbled.
Interesting, especially looking at his build & haircut.
Yes the audio isn't great. I thought I heard him say he was seen in a white van but I'm sure his car was searched not a van.
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Thank you for confirming that, I wasn't sure I had heard the remark correctly as the audio is garbled.
Interesting, especially looking at his build & haircut.
Also I found it difficult to make out the audio because of traffic noise in the background, but from what I could catch I thought his English had an interesting accent.
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Also I found it difficult to make out the audio because of traffic noise in the background, but from what I could catch I thought his English had an interesting accent.
He was born in Hertfordshire.
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He was born in Hertfordshire.
From listening to the audio, it is easy to deduce that it had been raining the preceding night this is why the note was soggy.
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Approximately two weeks before that diligence, in early January, the investigators spent five minutes in an informal conversation in a parking lot in Praia da Luz, with an English gardener, after an anonymous email had been sent to British newspapers and to the PJ, associating him to the scenario of Maddie's abduction, because of being a "weird" person. The PJ, that did not even consider the possibility of summoning the man for an interrogation, did not attribute any credibility to this lead, as it is suspected that the email that denounced the gardener was sent by someone who had had personal problems with the person.
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Approximately two weeks before that diligence, in early January, the investigators spent five minutes in an informal conversation in a parking lot in Praia da Luz, with an English gardener, after an anonymous email had been sent to British newspapers and to the PJ, associating him to the scenario of Maddie's abduction, because of being a "weird" person. The PJ, that did not even consider the possibility of summoning the man for an interrogation, did not attribute any credibility to this lead, as it is suspected that the email that denounced the gardener was sent by someone who had had personal problems with the person.
It is strange thing around the gardener, one thing he finds the letter about Madeleine, the other is that someone sends an email naming him as a suspect
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It is strange thing around the gardener, one thing he finds the letter about Madeleine, the other is that someone sends an email naming him as a suspect
When he allegedly found the letter on the doorstep of 5a he was described as a 'handyman' wasn't he? Wonder what he was doing in that particular location, the door is recessed and the path leads nowhere else.
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When he allegedly found the letter on the doorstep of 5a he was described as a 'handyman' wasn't he? Wonder what he was doing in that particular location, the door is recessed and the path leads nowhere else.
Very good point. Although translations are not to be trusted.
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When he allegedly found the letter on the doorstep of 5a he was described as a 'handyman' wasn't he? Wonder what he was doing in that particular location, the door is recessed and the path leads nowhere else.
As a handyman, could he not have been doing a job within 5A ?
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As a handyman, could he not have been doing a job within 5A ?
I have not seen any explanation of what he was doing in 5a, just as I haven't seen any corroboration of the tabloid story that a letter was found and handed in ... have you?
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I have not seen any explanation of what he was doing in 5a, just as I haven't seen any corroboration of the tabloid story that a letter was found and handed in ... have you?
No. Do you expect any ?
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No. Do you expect any ?
I have learned to take ... nothing ... at face value.
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As a handyman, could he not have been doing a job within 5A ?
No. OC used their own employees for repairs inside apartment (see the repair sheet for adult bedroom shutter repair by employees MDM and LFMF). GJ was a contractor not an employee. GJ statement clearly states he never worked inside these apartments, and had never been in 5A.
GJ statement describes what areas he worked on. There may may be a transcription problem of this statement because it says "block 4" when it is clearly referring to block 5. I think it means block 5. He maintained the gardens of the carpark area (not the gardens on the south side), and he cleaned the stairs in the stairwell, and the windows of the stairwell area only. This work was done always on Wednesday, every week, starting at about 14:00 and finishing at about 15:30 or 16:00.
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No. OC used their own employees for repairs inside apartment (see the repair sheet for adult bedroom shutter repair by employees MDM and LFMF). GJ statement clearly states he never worked inside these apartments, and had never been in 5A.
GJ statement describes what areas he worked on. There may may be a transcription problem of this statement because it says "block 4" when it is clearly referring to block 5. I think it means block 5. He maintained the gardens of the carpark area (not the gardens on the south side), and he cleaned the stairs in the stairwell, and the windows of the stairwell area only. This work was done always on Wednesday, every week, starting at about 14:00 and finishing at about 15:30 or 16:00.
But this letter was found a year later, apparently.
Anyway, he was questioned last week, and apparently not within the time frame of the latest Rogatory Letters.
And I would quite like to know what he was doing between 7.30pm and 9.30pm when he doesn't appear to have had an alibi.
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But this letter was found a year later, apparently.
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IMO it was found (at latest) afternoon Wed Oct 3rd. The UK tabloid says May 3rd 2008 was soggy and photographs tell us it wasn't soggy. Who to believe? Maybe the photos are forged and the tabloid is telling the truth?