UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on January 30, 2015, 04:13:33 PM
-
Haven't we been told by the faithful that the leaks from the PJ stopped as soon as Amaral was replaced by Rebelo as co-ordinator ? And wasn't Rebelo in place when the reconstitution was suggested ? so why would they fear any leaks ?
Either Rebelo was the new broom who swept away all vestiges of Amaral's tenure or he wasnt. You really can't have it both ways.
69
-
Haven't we been told by the faithful that the leaks from the PJ stopped as soon as Amaral was replaced by Rebelo as co-ordinator ? And wasn't Rebelo in place when the reconstitution was suggested ? so why would they fear any leaks ?
Either Rebelo was the new broom who swept away all vestiges of Amaral's tenure or he wasnt. You really can't have it both ways.
Didn't Rebelo have to return to Portugal in a hurry, during The Rogatory Interviews, because The PJ was leaking again?
-
Didn't Rebelo have to return to Portugal in a hurry, during The Rogatory Interviews, because The PJ was leaking again?
Did he ? You'll have a cite for that then.
-
Did he ? You'll have a cite for that then.
I am asking the question. Can you prove he didn't?
-
Didn't Rebelo have to return to Portugal in a hurry, during The Rogatory Interviews, because The PJ was leaking again?
a story was leaked to the press under Rebelo's tenure that all the children from the group had been sleeping in the same room on the night of the 3rd. This was reported in 24 Horas quoting "a police source".
-
Didn't Rebelo have to return to Portugal in a hurry, during The Rogatory Interviews, because The PJ was leaking again?
This what you think of? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/police-deny-bid-to-smear-mccanns-in-leaks-furore-26348877.html
-
Beat me to it Alfred
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/1895667/Madeleine-police-hit-back-at-McCanns-claims.html
-
This what you think of? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/police-deny-bid-to-smear-mccanns-in-leaks-furore-26348877.html
Very interesting.
-
This what you think of? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/police-deny-bid-to-smear-mccanns-in-leaks-furore-26348877.html
Thanks, Alfred. I remember him leaving before The Rogatory Interviews were conclude, mainly before David Payne was interviewed, because, it was said, that The PJ had been at it again the minute his back was turned.
-
Thanks, Alfred. I remember him leaving before The Rogatory Interviews were conclude, mainly before David Payne was interviewed, because, it was said, that The PJ had been at it again the minute his back was turned.
The PJ stenuously denied leaking details of the McCanns initial statements to the press which begs the question - who else had access to these statements who wasn't in the PJ at the time...?
-
The PJ stenuously denied leaking details of the McCanns initial statements to the press which begs the question - who else had access to these statements who wasn't in the PJ at the time...?
Not Amaral, surely? Statements do seem to have had a habit of wandering off on his watch.
-
Published: 14 April 2008 London Evening Standard
The head of the Portuguese police federation, Carlos Anjos, accused Clarence Mitchell of engineering a fight with officers to sabotage a reconstruction of the disappearance.
But Mr Anjos told the respected Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias: 'He is a liar and a Machiavellian.
"Mr Mitchell wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared.
"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."
-
The PJ stenuously denied leaking details of the McCanns initial statements to the press which begs the question - who else had access to these statements who wasn't in the PJ at the time...?
Clarence? &%+((£
-
The PJ stenuously denied leaking details of the McCanns initial statements to the press which begs the question - who else had access to these statements who wasn't in the PJ at the time...?
What parts of the first statements were printed in Spain?
Wasn't it just why didn't you come when we cried last night?
-
Snip from the link Alf posted>>>>
"The Policia Judiciaria regrets the baseless intervention of the spokesman above all at a moment when significant moves were being made in the investigation," the statement said.
Exclusive
It added: "At the end of last week, the Spanish television station Telecinco broadcast a news piece saying it had exclusive access to alleged declarations by the McCann couple to 'investigators' looking into the disappearance of Madeleine.
"On the basis of this news, the spokesman for the couple, Clarence Mitchell, publicly expressed the view, to diverse media outlets, his certainty that the PJ was responsible for the leaks.
Snip>>>>>
My mate know a bloke whose next door neighbour is related to a woman in the next village who thinks .......
Pull the other bell it has legs on (yes I know).
*&*%£
-
Snip from the link Alf posted>>>>
"The Policia Judiciaria regrets the baseless intervention of the spokesman above all at a moment when significant moves were being made in the investigation," the statement said.
Exclusive
It added: "At the end of last week, the Spanish television station Telecinco broadcast a news piece saying it had exclusive access to alleged declarations by the McCann couple to 'investigators' looking into the disappearance of Madeleine.
"On the basis of this news, the spokesman for the couple, Clarence Mitchell, publicly expressed the view, to diverse media outlets, his certainty that the PJ was responsible for the leaks.
Snip>>>>>
My mate know a bloke whose next door neighbour is related to a woman in the next village who thinks .......
Pull the other bell it has legs on (yes I know).
*&*%£
So, statements that should be safely in the keep of the PJ end up in the paper - how do you suppose they got there...? &%+((£
-
So, statements that should be safely in the keep of the PJ end up in the paper - how do you suppose they got there...? &%+((£
Well there is a comment that a TV station had access to them. Do you have a copy of the paper they were printed in with the actual documents shown with PJ stamps and all that good stuff? If not I will take it all with bushels of salt thanks.
-
Not Amaral, surely? Statements do seem to have had a habit of wandering off on his watch.
Yeah, and falling into Felicia Cabrita's little paws.
-
Well there is a comment that a TV station had access to them. Do you have a copy of the paper they were printed in with the actual documents shown with PJ stamps and all that good stuff? If not I will take it all with bushels of salt thanks.
How does a TV station get access to statements given to the police as part of their investigation, pray tell?
-
I am asking the question. Can you prove he didn't?
What makes you think he did ?
-
What makes you think he did ?
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/police-deny-bid-to-smear-mccanns-in-leaks-furore-26348877.html
-
What makes you think he did ?
We have gone a bit passed that now, so your obfuscation is wasted i'm afraid.
-
Context is everything.mthis was the week of the Rogatory interviews and who else had access to the information published ?
A nice little piece of distraction ?
-
We have gone a bit passed that now, so your obfuscation is wasted i'm afraid.
I see those charm classes were avwaste of money Eleanor.
Anyhow it has been established Rebelo left early. What hasn't been established is that it was over any leak. In fact the PJ absolutely denied that they had anything to do with the leak.
-
I see those charm classes were avwaste of money Eleanor.
Anyhow it has been established Rebelo left early. What hasn't been established is that it was over any leak. In fact the PJ absolutely denied that they had anything to do with the leak.
Well, they would, wouldn't they.
-
Well, they would, wouldn't they.
So point 1. You have not proved that Rebelo's early return to Portugal was anything to do with any leak.
Point 2. Have you any evidence that implicates the PJ in the leak ? There was a number of people who knew about the 'why didn't you come' comment, not least of them Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner and Rachel Oldfield, their partners and the Leicestershire police who would have seen the original statements and had just been reminded of the comment by the aforementioned ladies. Oh and of course the McCanns.
-
Absolutely astounding that there is any criticism of individuals who were not prepared to put themselves and their families at risk given the lies printed about them in the press which were undoubtedly deeply prejudicial.
It is possible the leak which occurred was not so much directed at the Drs McCann and their friends but was instead intended to damage Paulo Rebelo ... it certainly undermined him and compromised the case he was conducting into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
As we know there were and are people who would be perfectly happy with that and who remain distressed that there is a fresh investigation ongoing today.
Following is just a taste of the innuendo and downright lies prevalent in 2007, 2008 which has pertained in some quarters till the present day ... such is the power of propaganda.
Quote -
List of available babysitters.
Sunday Evening: Matt Oldfield : ...Matt too sick to attend dinner
Monday OR Tuesday Evening: Russell O' Brian......... Did not attend dinner becasuse child was ' sick' (Jane cannot confirm which night or she does not wish to)
Tuesday evening: Kate McCann was not seen at dinner by the quiz mistress.
Wednesday Evening: Rachael Oldfield : too sick to attend dinner
The babysitters...one sat each evening with the children ,just as Paulo Rebelo had suspected , the children were all together, the issue of neglect had been removed....AND now understanding why it was impossible for the tapas to return for a reconstruction , they were truly afraid !
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html
The Cancelled reconstruction End Quote
http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/list-of-available-babysitters.html
-
Brietta posted 'It is possible the leak which occurred was not so much directed at the Drs McCann and their friends but was instead intended to damage Paulo Rebelo ... it certainly undermined him and compromised the case he was conducting into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.'
I totally agree. At the time Rebelo was questioning the McCanns's friends and was also pushing for a reconstitution. If nothing else this would have told the doctors that although their was a new co-ordinatior on the case he was still focusing on the McCamns as his predecessor had done. What better way to undermine his credibility than to suggest that his team were leaking information to smear the good doctors. After all it had worked before.
-
I am asking the question. Can you prove he didn't?
You asked a leading question with no basis. A bit disingenuous.
-
You asked a leading question with no basis. A bit disingenuous.
Thanks for the compliment.
-
So point 1. You have not proved that Rebelo's early return to Portugal was anything to do with any leak.
Point 2. Have you any evidence that implicates the PJ in the leak ? There was a number of people who knew about the 'why didn't you come' comment, not least of them Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner and Rachel Oldfield, their partners and the Leicestershire police who would have seen the original statements and had just been reminded of the comment by the aforementioned ladies. Oh and of course the McCanns.
Why would any of these people leak information considered to be of a damaging nature to the McCanns? Why not leak something a little less contentious? Why do you struggle to believe the PJ would ever do such a thing? It's not like it would have been the first time would it? All rhetorical questions which I don't expect you to (be able to) answer.
-
Why would any of these people leak information considered to be of a damaging nature to the McCanns? Why not leak something a little less contentious? Why do you struggle to believe the PJ would ever do such a thing? It's not like it would have been the first time would it? All rhetorical questions which I don't expect you to (be able to) answer.
Well a Leicestershire police employee may have because he was sickened to the stomach with the thought that even though Madeleine had told her mother and father that she and her siblings were crying while left alone and still her parents left her the next night.
One of their friends might have because of the havoc the circus the McCanns had created was having on their lives ( perhaps it was the same friend who released the 'F**k off ' mobile phone footage of Gerry to the media ).
Or even Mitchell himself to deflect from the spectacle of the Rogatories and to justify their and their friends reconstitution refusal. You said it yourself , why would something so damaging be released especially by the McCanns ? That is exactly what a clever PR man would want the public to think.
-
Well a Leicestershire police employee may have because he was sickened to the stomach with the thought that even though Madeleine had told her mother and father that she and her siblings were crying while left alone and still her parents left her the next night.
One of their friends might have because of the havoc the circus the McCanns had created was having on their lives ( perhaps it was the same friend who released the 'F**k off ' mobile phone footage of Gerry to the media ).
Or even Mitchell himself to deflect from the spectacle of the Rogatories and to justify their and their friends reconstitution refusal. You said it yourself , why would something so damaging be released especially by the McCanns ? That is exactly what a clever PR man would want the public to think.
And why do you discount the idea that the leak cam from the Portuguese police, seeing as the leak occurred in Portugal, to a Portuguese paper? Why do you favour the far more improbable sources as listed above?
-
PS: what was the spectacle of the Rogatories...?
-
And why do you discount the idea that the leak cam from the Portuguese police, seeing as the leak occurred in Portugal, to a Portuguese paper? Why do you favour the far more improbable sources as listed above?
Thought it was a Spanish paper/TV station?
-
Why would any of these people leak information considered to be of a damaging nature to the McCanns? Why not leak something a little less contentious? Why do you struggle to believe the PJ would ever do such a thing? It's not like it would have been the first time would it? All rhetorical questions which I don't expect you to (be able to) answer.
Bridget O'Donnell / David James Smith
It was the first time the McCanns' friends had been named in public, but Sol's journalist Felicia Cabrita had their names and phone numbers and details from their witness statements.
...
The information had been handed to Cabrita by the police - she says she acquired the material through good journalism, which in a sense it was - and her source is widely believed by her colleagues to have been the former head of the inquiry, Goncalo Amaral.
-
Do you think Clarence, the McCanns or their friends had in their possession transcripts of their police statements? Do you think Clarence would choose the day the McCanns went to Portugal to launch the Amber Alert scheme as the best day to leak these transcripts which he didn't have in his possession? Get real Faithlilly.
-
Thought it was a Spanish paper/TV station?
My mistake.
-
It added: "At the end of last week, the Spanish television station Telecinco broadcast a news piece saying it had exclusive access to alleged declarations by the McCann couple to 'investigators' looking into the disappearance of Madeleine.
So, straight from the police statements then.
-
And why do you discount the idea that the leak cam from the Portuguese police, seeing as the leak occurred in Portugal, to a Portuguese paper? Why do you favour the far more improbable sources as listed above?
And why do you discount the leak was from another source other than the PJ ? The McCanns employed a Portuguese PR company. This is exactly the sort of thing they'd be employed to do.
-
It added: "At the end of last week, the Spanish television station Telecinco broadcast a news piece saying it had exclusive access to alleged declarations by the McCann couple to 'investigators' looking into the disappearance of Madeleine.
So, straight from the police statements then.
Do you think all leaks came from one place, or a mixture of places?
-
And why do you discount the leak was from another source other than the PJ ? The McCanns employed a Portuguese PR company. This is exactly the sort of thing they'd be employed to do.
And how did they come by copies of the police statements?
-
Do you think all leaks came from one place, or a mixture of places?
Who knows? How many places had copies of transcripts of the McCanns statements?
-
Thought it was a Spanish paper/TV station?
Madeleine Case - A Pact of Silence SOL (http://sol.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Sociedade/Interior.aspx?content_id=42529)
By Felicia Cabrita and Margarida Davim
30 June 2007
Thanks Astro for translation
- Extract -
Only Jane saw the man carrying a child
But there is a witness whose deposition contradicts this theory. Jeremy Wilkins - a TV producer who had met Maddie's father during their holidays and used to play tennis with him - was walking his eight months old son at that time. He met Gerry, who went out through the apartment's back door after having checked on the children, and the two men exchanged a brief conversation. At that time, if one is to believe the first accounts, Jane would have left Tapas in the direction of the apartment's main entrance, and would have crossed paths with both of them. "It was a very narrow road and I think it would have been almost impossible to walk by without me taking notice", Jeremy says, pointing out the fact that he saw no man carrying a child, as Jane states.
But Jane continues to guarantee that, at the top of the street, she saw a man with a child in his arms.
Although the area is scarcely lit, and the situation did not make her suspicious at the time, she describes the beige trousers, the dark thick jacket and the black classic-style shoes in a detailed way. Once again, Jeremy disagrees: "If that happened, I would have likely seen it".
...........................................................................
Bridget O'Donnell / David James Smith
It was the first time the McCanns' friends had been named in public, but Sol's journalist Felicia Cabrita had their names and phone numbers and details from their witness statements.
...
The information had been handed to Cabrita by the police - she says she acquired the material through good journalism, which in a sense it was - and her source is widely believed by her colleagues to have been the former head of the inquiry, Goncalo Amaral.
-
And why do you discount the leak was from another source other than the PJ ? The McCanns employed a Portuguese PR company. This is exactly the sort of thing they'd be employed to do.
BTW PR firms are usually employed to positively manage clients' reputations, not plant negative stories about them in the press, except in the topsy-turvy world of the 'sceptic". Now, tell me why it just couldn't have been the PJ?
-
And how did they come by copies of the police statements?
Does it say statements or simply declarations ?
-
Who knows? How many places had copies of transcripts of the McCanns statements?
Wasn't a big chunk of Leveson about British police selling information to newspapers?
-
Does it say statements or simply declarations ?
I believe, documents and statements in here:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559151/Portuguese-police-leaks-shameless-smears-discredit-say-McCanns.html
-
Wasn't a big chunk of Leveson about British police selling information to newspapers?
No, Portuguese police and journo.
2.46pm: Daniel Sanderson's witness statement has now been published. It says that the former News of the World news editor Ian Edmondson approved a €18,000 payment to a Portuguese journalist for the Kate McCann diaries.
12.19pm: Sanderson explains how he got in touch with a Portuguese journalist and they discussed payment for a copy of the diary. Sanderson then liaised with the news editor at the time, Ian Edmondson.
Edmondson hired a freelancer, Gerard Couzens, who is based in Spain to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the diary.
Sanderson says he wasn't aware at the time that the ultimate source was the Portuguese police.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic17221.html
-
I believe, documents and statements in here:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559151/Portuguese-police-leaks-shameless-smears-discredit-say-McCanns.html
Thank you Anna but with the greatest respect this is a tabloid article no doubt taken from a Mitchell press release.
Those implying that the statement was released to smear the McCanns must think their admission is as awful as I do because only then could it inflict the amount of damage on the McCann's reputation and credibility as is being suggested.
-
No, Portuguese police and journo.
2.46pm: Daniel Sanderson's witness statement has now been published. It says that the former News of the World news editor Ian Edmondson approved a €18,000 payment to a Portuguese journalist for the Kate McCann diaries.
12.19pm: Sanderson explains how he got in touch with a Portuguese journalist and they discussed payment for a copy of the diary. Sanderson then liaised with the news editor at the time, Ian Edmondson.
Edmondson hired a freelancer, Gerard Couzens, who is based in Spain to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the diary.
Sanderson says he wasn't aware at the time that the ultimate source was the Portuguese police.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic17221.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304977/Jefferies-Police-leaked-statement
-
No, Portuguese police and journo.
2.46pm: Daniel Sanderson's witness statement has now been published. It says that the former News of the World news editor Ian Edmondson approved a €18,000 payment to a Portuguese journalist for the Kate McCann diaries.
12.19pm: Sanderson explains how he got in touch with a Portuguese journalist and they discussed payment for a copy of the diary. Sanderson then liaised with the news editor at the time, Ian Edmondson.
Edmondson hired a freelancer, Gerard Couzens, who is based in Spain to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the diary.
Sanderson says he wasn't aware at the time that the ultimate source was the Portuguese police.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic17221.html
I know about that, but in 2011 the NOTW scandal broke and since then more and more has come out about the activities of British police with journalists. There are still cases either at trial or yet to get to trial.
You believe there was none of that going on in 2007/8 involving the most high profile case of all?
-
I know about that, but in 2011 the NOTW scandal broke and since then more and more has come out about the activities of British police with journalists. There are still cases either at trial or yet to get to trial.
You believe there was none of that going on in 2007/8 involving the most high profile case of all?
The fact is Lyall almost everything the Portuguese police had in the way of evidence the Leicestershire police had access to too.
-
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304977/Jefferies-Police-leaked-statement
What's jefferies got to do with this topic
-
What's jefferies got to do with this topic
The British police at that time were also leaking information that should have been sub judici so it is entirely possible that information was being leaked by Leicestershire police who would have had access to much of the information held by the Portuguese police.
One thing I have never understood. If many of the articles about the McCanns were not true why do they need to have been leaked by anyone ? Isn't it just possible that they came from the fetid imagination of a tabloid journalust ?
-
The fact is Lyall almost everything the Portuguese police had in the way of evidence the Leicestershire police had access to too.
Not just them either. As someone pointed out earlier there was also Metodo, and Control Risks, and Halligen's jokers, and who knows who else.
(And Clarence, of course.)
-
Not just them either. As someone pointed out earlier there was also Metodo, and Control Risks, and Halligen's jokers, and who knows who else.
(And Clarence, of course.)
Well here is one guy who certainly wasn't going to give anything out even if he knew the continuing leaks from Portugal were total rubbish ...
"Integrity" ... how very 'stiff upper lipped' and all that.
Leveson inquiry: ex-police chief defends not preventing false McCann DNA reports
Matthew Baggott says it was correct 'not to put the record straight' over false reports about Madeleine McCann case
Lisa O'Carroll
@lisaocarroll
Wednesday 28 March 2012 18.40 BST
The UK police were right not to "put the record straight" over false reports claiming Gerry and Kate McCann were implicated in their daughter's disappearance, the Leveson inquiry has heard.
Matthew Baggott, the former chief constable of Leicestershire police, told the inquiry on Wednesday he could not have released information about DNA tests conducted in the UK to counter leaks by the Portuguese police that falsely claimed they showed the McCanns had hidden Madeleine in the boot of a hire car in Portugal.
Baggott said there were both legal and professional reasons for this. Portuguese secrecy laws made it "utterly wrong to have somehow, in an off-the-record way, have breached what was a very clear legal requirement upon the Portuguese themselves", he told Lord Justice Leveson.
He also said the Leicestershire force's priority was to maintain a positive relationship with the Portuguese police, with a view to "eventually ... resolving what happened to that poor child".
Last November the Leveson inquiry heard how the Daily Express reported there was DNA evidence that could show the little girl's body had been stored in the spare tyre well of a hire car.
It turned out the analysis conducted in the UK was "inconclusive" and there was no foundation for making that allegation. Express Newspapers paid £550,000 damages to the McCann's in 2008 for inaccurate reporting by the Daily Express and the publisher's three other titles.
Leveson asked Baggot about evidence submitted by a Daily Star crime reporter two weeks ago that the Leicestershire police "knew perfectly well that the results didn't demonstrate that", and could have given off-the-record briefings to British journalists not to report a DNA link.
"Even with the benefit of hindsight, sir, I'm still convinced we did the right thing and I think integrity and confidence, particularly with the Portuguese, featured very highly in our decision-making at that time," said Baggott.
He added: "So the relationship of trust and confidence would have been undermined if we had gone off the record in some way or tried to put the record straight, contrary to the way in which the Portuguese law was configured and their own leadership of that."
When they appeared before Leveson late last year, Gerry and Kate McCann told how they were left distraught by false claims in the UK press that they were responsible for their daughter's disappearance or her death.
Leveson later accused the Daily Express of writing "complete piffle" and "tittle tattle" about Madeleine McCann.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/28/leveson-madeleine-mccann-dna-police
-
Well here is one guy who certainly wasn't going to give anything out even if he knew the continuing leaks from Portugal were total rubbish ...
"Integrity" ... how very 'stiff upper lipped' and all that.
Leveson inquiry: ex-police chief defends not preventing false McCann DNA reports
Matthew Baggott says it was correct 'not to put the record straight' over false reports about Madeleine McCann case
Lisa O'Carroll
@lisaocarroll
Wednesday 28 March 2012 18.40 BST
The UK police were right not to "put the record straight" over false reports claiming Gerry and Kate McCann were implicated in their daughter's disappearance, the Leveson inquiry has heard.
Matthew Baggott, the former chief constable of Leicestershire police, told the inquiry on Wednesday he could not have released information about DNA tests conducted in the UK to counter leaks by the Portuguese police that falsely claimed they showed the McCanns had hidden Madeleine in the boot of a hire car in Portugal.
Baggott said there were both legal and professional reasons for this. Portuguese secrecy laws made it "utterly wrong to have somehow, in an off-the-record way, have breached what was a very clear legal requirement upon the Portuguese themselves", he told Lord Justice Leveson.
He also said the Leicestershire force's priority was to maintain a positive relationship with the Portuguese police, with a view to "eventually ... resolving what happened to that poor child".
Last November the Leveson inquiry heard how the Daily Express reported there was DNA evidence that could show the little girl's body had been stored in the spare tyre well of a hire car.
It turned out the analysis conducted in the UK was "inconclusive" and there was no foundation for making that allegation. Express Newspapers paid £550,000 damages to the McCann's in 2008 for inaccurate reporting by the Daily Express and the publisher's three other titles.
Leveson asked Baggot about evidence submitted by a Daily Star crime reporter two weeks ago that the Leicestershire police "knew perfectly well that the results didn't demonstrate that", and could have given off-the-record briefings to British journalists not to report a DNA link.
"Even with the benefit of hindsight, sir, I'm still convinced we did the right thing and I think integrity and confidence, particularly with the Portuguese, featured very highly in our decision-making at that time," said Baggott.
He added: "So the relationship of trust and confidence would have been undermined if we had gone off the record in some way or tried to put the record straight, contrary to the way in which the Portuguese law was configured and their own leadership of that."
When they appeared before Leveson late last year, Gerry and Kate McCann told how they were left distraught by false claims in the UK press that they were responsible for their daughter's disappearance or her death.
Leveson later accused the Daily Express of writing "complete piffle" and "tittle tattle" about Madeleine McCann.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/28/leveson-madeleine-mccann-dna-police
Fair enough. But just as it would be foolish for someone to claim no leaks were made by any Portuguese police, it's just as foolish for someone to deny some could have come from any of the other sources.
A great many newspaper article clearly did originate from Metodo's work. They were disregarding judicial secrecy, as were the articles by other witnesses (and articles about JT and the sighting). Everyone was doing it.
Mitchell's 'Creepyman' press briefing also did. There were many other examples.
It's clearly absurd to just say only sources in Portugal were.
-
You know where some of the many inaccuracies in articles came from. Not from Portuguese police. They took rumours and gossip and online speculation and a bit of imagination and made them up. When there was such a demand for 'news' it was easy work.
-
Does it say statements or simply declarations ?
Transcripts of police statements. Now are you going to explain why you think it unlikely the leaks originated from the PJ or are you going to keep side-stepping the question?
-
You know where some of the many inaccuracies in articles came from. Not from Portuguese police. They took rumours and gossip and online speculation and a bit of imagination and made them up. When there was such a demand for 'news' it was easy work.
That's true in some instances. However, many of the most enduring myths had an origin in PJ leaks, however distorted they became in the news. "A 100% DNA match", "bodily fluids" and "clumps of hair" in the boot, for example.
-
Transcripts of police statements. Now are you going to explain why you think it unlikely the leaks originated from the PJ or are you going to keep side-stepping the question?
Because the PJ categorically denied it.
Strange that in the article above Baggott's declaration of no wrong-doing is automatically accepted by the faithful yet when the PJ claim the same thing the are seem as being less than honest.
Can you see the bias in your and your friends position ?
-
Because the PJ categorically denied it.
Strange that in the article above Baggott's declaration of no wrong-doing is automatically accepted by the faithful yet when the PJ claim the same thing the are seem as being less than honest.
Can you see the bias in your and your friends position ?
LLOL - happy to take the PJ's denial at face value but A... ......... is clearly lying to the great British public. Can you see the bias in you and your friends' position?
The PJ swiftly denied they had leaked - but had they conducted a thorough investigation by that point? Their response seems pretty knee-jerk to me. The PJ had form when it came to leaking in this case but if you think it is far more likely that the McCanns and their friends had transcripts of their own police statements and gave these to Clarence to leak to Spanish media then that indicates to me a certain lack of clear-thinking on your part.
-
LLOL - happy to take the PJ's denial at face value but A... ....... is clearly lying to the great British public. Can you see the bias in you and your friends' position?
The PJ swiftly denied they had leaked - but had they conducted a thorough investigation by that point? Their response seems pretty knee-jerk to me. The PJ had form when it came to leaking in this case but if you think it is far more likely that the McCanns and their friends had transcripts of their own police statements and gave these to Clarence to leak to Spanish media then that indicates to me a certain lack of clear-thinking on your part.
And the PJ would leak to the Spanish media because....... ?
-
That's true in some instances. However, many of the most enduring myths had an origin in PJ leaks, however distorted they became in the news. "A 100% DNA match", "bodily fluids" and "clumps of hair" in the boot, for example.
That was because, or partly because, TV joined in with the papers (briefly). Brunt's broadcasts being the most obvious examples.
And TV joined in because the McCanns themselves leaked on arguido day, with McGuiness and Philomena telling anyone who would listen about the 'hire car theory' and that Kate was about to be charged.
So in fact everyone was leaking.
Up until that moment the TV channels refrained from reporting anything that hadn't been confirmed.
-
How does a TV station get access to statements given to the police as part of their investigation, pray tell?
We don't know for sure that they did.
The article posted from the Independent seems mostly to be what the prospective member for Brighton Pavilion said or thought.
Being a cautious kid I trust neither side farther than I can kick a lamp post.
-
We don't know for sure that they did.
The article posted from the Independent seems mostly to be what the prospective member for Brighton Pavilion said or thought.
Being a cautious kid I trust neither side farther than I can kick a lamp post.
So we don't know that a Spanish TV channel broke the story referencing transcripts of the McCanns statements, is that what you're saying? Should be easy enough to verify I would have thought...
-
So we don't know that a Spanish TV channel broke the story referencing transcripts of the McCanns statements, is that what you're saying? Should be easy enough to verify I would have thought...
That is about what I said three or four posts ago but no one has verified it yet. I even asked you if you had such verification. Having now gone around in a circle I presume you don't.
-
That is about what I said three or four posts ago but no one has verified it yet. I even asked you if you had such verification. Having now gone around in a circle I presume you don't.
I didn't see that post, having jumped on here quickly in my lunch break. About to jump off again, so maybe someone else can oblige...?
-
Telecinco Journalist refutes the Judiciary Police statement
The denial of the Judiciary Police (PJ), in a declaration issued on Monday, to the news piece aired by the TV channel Spanish Telecinco, where it was revealed an alleged statement of Kate McCann given to the police, a statement that would be under the secrecy of justice, where Kate criticized her daughter Madeleine, just a few hours before the girl disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007, from the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, near to Lagos, deserve a reaction from the author of the surprising revelation.
In declarations, yesterday to the DN, the journalist Nacho Abad reaffirmed that it "is truthful" the content of the information disclosed by the Spanish TV channel, guaranteeing to have access to documents that can prove it.
"It surprises me that the McCann family says that it is true and that the Portuguese police say that it is false. But I do not want to take part in any battle between the McCanns and the PJ. I am going to keep on doing my work and try to find the truth about Madeleine's disappearance "emphasized Nacho Abad.
The journalist denied to have had as a source the McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell - a conviction inside the PJ who thought that this situation was instigated in order to try to discredit the investigation and to find a pretext to avoid the re-enactment of the events in the night in which the child disappeared - or the Spanish agency of detectives M├®todo3, hired since September 2007 by the McCanns. And he didn't say anything further, stating that: "Obviously, I have to protect my source".
The case originated in a news piece aired last week by Telecinco about an alleged statement where Gerry and Kate McCann described to the PJ that hours before Madeleine had disappeared, their daughter questioned them on their absence in the previous night.
President of the Bar Association criticizes PJ
On the other side, in accordance with the TV Globe's Site, the President of the Bar, Ant├│nio Marinho Pinto, affirmed, on Monday, in a meeting in Lisbon with international correspondents, that the PJ " failed to recognize the lack of advancements in the Madeleine McCann's case", having the investigation of the case, in his perspective, arrived to "a dead end" and that "the police is unable to acknowledge that fact". For Marinho Pinto, the PJ dedicated the first months of the investigation "sending messages through the press about who were the guilty persons".
In this period, remembered the President of the Bar, the headlines of the press "were implying" that Gerry and Kate McCann were involved in Madeleine's disappearance, reinforcing in this sense criticism to the police actions in a country where much "is investigated for the newspapers", besides existing, in some cases, "frictions" between the different forces of national security.
Source: Diário de Notícias
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9851&sid=5a298c97a7f20bcfd98485e53838f951
-
For information. This is a new topic.
-
Telecinco Journalist refutes the Judiciary Police statement
The denial of the Judiciary Police (PJ), in a declaration issued on Monday, to the news piece aired by the TV channel Spanish Telecinco, where it was revealed an alleged statement of Kate McCann given to the police, a statement that would be under the secrecy of justice, where Kate criticized her daughter Madeleine, just a few hours before the girl disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007, from the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, near to Lagos, deserve a reaction from the author of the surprising revelation.
In declarations, yesterday to the DN, the journalist Nacho Abad reaffirmed that it "is truthful" the content of the information disclosed by the Spanish TV channel, guaranteeing to have access to documents that can prove it.
"It surprises me that the McCann family says that it is true and that the Portuguese police say that it is false. But I do not want to take part in any battle between the McCanns and the PJ. I am going to keep on doing my work and try to find the truth about Madeleine's disappearance "emphasized Nacho Abad.
The journalist denied to have had as a source the McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell - a conviction inside the PJ who thought that this situation was instigated in order to try to discredit the investigation and to find a pretext to avoid the re-enactment of the events in the night in which the child disappeared - or the Spanish agency of detectives M├®todo3, hired since September 2007 by the McCanns. And he didn't say anything further, stating that: "Obviously, I have to protect my source".
The case originated in a news piece aired last week by Telecinco about an alleged statement where Gerry and Kate McCann described to the PJ that hours before Madeleine had disappeared, their daughter questioned them on their absence in the previous night.
President of the Bar Association criticizes PJ
On the other side, in accordance with the TV Globe's Site, the President of the Bar, Ant├│nio Marinho Pinto, affirmed, on Monday, in a meeting in Lisbon with international correspondents, that the PJ " failed to recognize the lack of advancements in the Madeleine McCann's case", having the investigation of the case, in his perspective, arrived to "a dead end" and that "the police is unable to acknowledge that fact". For Marinho Pinto, the PJ dedicated the first months of the investigation "sending messages through the press about who were the guilty persons".
In this period, remembered the President of the Bar, the headlines of the press "were implying" that Gerry and Kate McCann were involved in Madeleine's disappearance, reinforcing in this sense criticism to the police actions in a country where much "is investigated for the newspapers", besides existing, in some cases, "frictions" between the different forces of national security.
Source: Diário de Notícias
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9851&sid=5a298c97a7f20bcfd98485e53838f951
Well done Anna, I think that rather backs up the news article, ie: that it was official PJ statements by the McCanns that were leaked. Still think Clarrie did it Faithlilly? I expect you do....
-
The fact is Lyall almost everything the Portuguese police had in the way of evidence the Leicestershire police had access to too.
Due to the thirst for information from the media, every individual working in
Leicestershire supporting the Portuguese investigation signed a confidentiality
agreement. Messages were also disseminated to all staff to make them aware that
even private conversations with friends could be reported on in the me
(...)
During the investigation the media quoted, who they claimed to be, unnamed
Leicestershire police sources. These comments reported by the media bore little
resemblance to the facts. However, Leicestershire Constabulary did conduct an
enquiry to establish if any police employee could be identified as leaking
information to the media. No such person was identified.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Witness-Statement-of-Chief-Constable-Matthew-Baggott.pdf
-
And the PJ would leak to the Spanish media because....... ?
Intermediaries? A lot of cash was floating around in those days.
-
No, Portuguese police and journo.
2.46pm: Daniel Sanderson's witness statement has now been published. It says that the former News of the World news editor Ian Edmondson approved a €18,000 payment to a Portuguese journalist for the Kate McCann diaries.
12.19pm: Sanderson explains how he got in touch with a Portuguese journalist and they discussed payment for a copy of the diary. Sanderson then liaised with the news editor at the time, Ian Edmondson.
Edmondson hired a freelancer, Gerard Couzens, who is based in Spain to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the diary.
Sanderson says he wasn't aware at the time that the ultimate source was the Portuguese police.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic17221.html
Statement of Daniel Sanderson
In response to the numbered questions set out in the letter from the Leveson Inquiry dated
2nd December 2011
1. Please explain exactly how NoW obtained a copy of Dr Kate McCann’s diary: you are not
required to name any sources, but you are required to identify the precise provenance of
the diary, explain the circumstances in which NoW received it, and confirm (if it be the
case) that it was of the original which had been seized by the Portuguese authorities.
A story appeared in The Sun newspaper on July 28, 2008, which said that extracts of Kate
McCann’s diary had emerged in Portugal, covering the first weeks after her daughter
Madeleine disappeared.
In the article there were two extracts that Mrs McCann had made in her diary.
I was asked by my news editor lan Edmondson to track down the person who was in
possession of the diary and was leaking extracts of it in Portugal.
After Mr Edmondson agreed, I called several newspapers in Portugal to ascertain who had
the diary.
I was put in touch with a journalist in Portugal who confirmed that they were in possession
of a copy of the diary and were willing to sell it to the NoW for, if my memory serves me
correctly, 18,000 Euros.
I believe the newspaper agreed to pay something like 9,000 Euros immediately and the rest
on publication of the story. The purchase was authorised by Mr Edmondson.
I liaised with Mr Edmondson and was told to ask a freelance journalist called Gerard
Couzens, who is based in Spain, to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the
diary.
From there my involvement ended until the diary reached the offices of the NoW.
My understanding is that Mr Edmondson took control of the diary’s delivery to our offices.
I believe that Mr Couzens met the journalist on Friday September 5, 2008 in Portugal and
paid her Euro 9,000 for a copy of the diary.
It’s my understanding that Mr Couzens delivered the diary to the NoW’s offices on Saturday
September 6, 2008.
It did not appear to be the original diary, but a copy that had been translated from English
into Portuguese.
2. Was the copy
NoW
obtained in English or Portuguese?
The NoW copy was in Portuguese.
3. What steps, if any, did you take to establish its authenticity and that it was a document
which you were entitled to possess?
Over the course of the working week commencing on Tuesday September 9th 2008, I
organised for the diary to be translated back into English using a London-based translation
service (I cannot recall the name).
It was a laborious task and the final section was completed on Friday September 12, 2008 -
two days before the story was published.
I spent the week writing the story as and when sections had been successfully translated.
In terms of its authenticity, we approached the diary from the viewpoint that it was a fake.
We had to cross check every entry against our online cuttings system to check that each
I was first made aware that the newspaper had the document when I returned to the office
after the weekend on Tuesday September 9, 2008.
Mr Edmondson showed me the diary that morning.
3. What steps, if any, did you take to establish its authenticity and that it was a document
which you were entitled to possess?
Over the course of the working week commencing on Tuesday September 9th 2008, I
organised for the diary to be translated back into English using a London-based translation
service (I cannot recall the name).
It was a laborious task and the final section was completed on Friday September 12, 2008 -
two days before the story was published.
I spent the week writing the story as and when sections had been successfully translated.
In terms of its authenticity, we approached the diary from the viewpoint that it was a fake.
We had to cross check every entry against our online cuttings system to check that each
entry was correct and the diary was genuine.
For example, if there was an entry where it said the McCanns had met The Pope that day,
I had to check in cuttings that newspapers had reported that the McCanns had indeed met
The Pope on the corresponding date.
My understanding of the situation was that the news editor, Mr Edmondson, would also
confirm with the McCann’s press spokesman Clarence Mitchell that the diary was genuine.
4. What was paid for the diary and to whom?
I believe 18,000 Euros were paid to the Portuguese journalist (the P J). It was paid in two
parts; 9,000 Euros up front and 9,000 Euros on publication. I can’t be certain of this figure,
but it is certainly a fairly accurate estimate. I am aware of the approximate figure because
that is the price that had been agreed with the PJ in my initial phone conversations with the
PJ. The PJ set the price, which I had communicated to Mr Edmondson. Mr Edmondson then
authorised both payments to the source. The PJ then contacted me after publication to
organise the second payment, which was authorised by Mr Edmondson.
(...)
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Witness-Statement-of-Daniel-Sanderson.pdf
The journalist in question appears to be a woman if Sanderson is correct.
Way before this though, there were extracts published way back in the September 07 Portuguese anti-McCann media blitz.
-
CdaM
13.09.2007 13:01 Kate chama histéricos aos filhos no diário O diário de Kate é fundamental para os investigadores da Polícia Judiciária, que o encontraram aberto na vivenda alugada pelos McCann depois do desaparecimento de Madeleine do Ocean Club.
Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/exclusivos/detalhe/kate-chama-histericos-aos-filhos-no-diario.html
The next day something similar ends up in El Mundo:
LA PRENSA PUBLICA ALGUNOS EXTRACTOS
Kate McCann se quejaba en su diario del agotador exceso de vitalidad de Madeleine
Vídeo: Atlas
Actualizado viernes 14/09/2007 11:04
No bylines on either.
-
Madeleine McCann: police chief breaks silence
12:01AM BST 23 Sep 2007
It was a moment of quiet satisfaction for Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa.
Since making his sudden, dramatic announcement exactly one week ago, that he was no longer prepared to act as the official Portuguese police spokesman in the Madeleine McCann investigation, he had pretty much maintained his silence.
To a tight trio of trusted colleagues he had confided that he was ''unhappy" about the inquiry and ''exasperated" with the constant leaks from junior officers who, in exchange for extravagant meals, were willing to either reveal snippets of confidential information, or to embroider vague facts if they felt that was what their moles in the Portuguese media wanted.
In public he has said nothing.
But this weekend Mr Sousa, for four months the public face of the Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance, has come clean.
He has made it clear to friends that he feels his resignation has been vindicated – and why.
He has acknowledged that the leaks were intended to push Kate and Gerry McCann into confessing they had killed their daughter.
More crucially, he believes that the concerted fightback by the McCanns will reveal that, for all the police posturing when they named the couple as suspects, their evidence was at best flimsy, at worst supposition. ''He has told me he always worried that the evidence against the McCanns was weak," says one former policeman. ''He was worried it would not bear scrutiny."
It has not been Mr Sousa's only concern over the investigation.
He also feels that he has been dragged into a war of words.
"He told me he felt caught in the middle of a propaganda war between his police colleagues and the McCanns," another investigator who has spoken to Mr Sousa confirmed.
He has complained that while fellow officers were leaking information illegally — Portugal has strict secrecy laws — the same officers would instruct him to deny the stories when printed. The problem for Sousa was that the denials rarely got into the media.
The result has been endless column inches slandering the McCanns. ''Some Portuguese journalists were fairly convinced the so-called evidence passed on to them by police was nowhere near as concrete as their sources suggested," says Jose Lugios, a freelance reporter based in the Algarve.
"The way it works here is that we can't get official police comments so we have to rely on tip-offs from them. We know they use us at times?…?as they did when they drip-fed us snippets that might exert enough pressure on the McCanns to confess.
But that's the strange way it works. It's the only way we can get crime stories."
Such lax practice has shocked even the country's politicians. ''The leaks to the press of some details that are supposed to be classified have been used as an easy way to manipulate and shape public opinion," says Francisco Louçã, leader of a Portuguese opposition party.
''It is clear the leaks have been used in a battle to turn public opinion against the McCanns and convince people they are guilty when there is no concrete evidence to support this," said another politician, who asked to remain anonymous.
For months the McCanns have been angered by snide suggestions that their PR machine, dubbed Team McCann — a term they hate — is too slick.
The truth is that it has not been, until now.
In Praia da Luz it was little more than a borrowed fax, two mobile telephones and Gerry McCann's Apple laptop. And while friends and family in the UK did what they could, in Portugal the McCanns had only one official spokesman, provided and paid for initially by the Foreign Office.
Last week that became a six-strong team, top-heavy on legal experts and media representatives.
That transformation was borne of necessity.
Not least because Mr Sousa's observation is nearer to the truth than he may know.
What began as a tale of heartbreaking loss has become a fierce propaganda battle, punctuated by smears and in-fighting. For an increasingly embittered Portuguese police force, to lose such a battle would mean world-wide ridicule, allegations that they have attempted to "fit up" an innocent mother and accusations from a £2.8 billion tourism industry that they were ruining the Algarve's reputation.
Yesterday there was additional embarrassment when it emerged unofficially that Robert Murat, the only other suspect in the case, is unlikely to face charges.
But the greater tragedy is that Madeleine's fate – to her parents' anguish – appears to have been forgotten.
Instead the propaganda war has led to lurid headlines such as "The DNA found in the McCanns' rented Renault Scenic, is 100 per cent positively that of Madeleine" and "McCanns killed Maddie with an accidental overdose of sedative".
Kate has been attacked as an unfit mother, who could not cope with her three toddlers and resented bearing the bulk of the child care; she had "lost control" in police interviews — proof, Portuguese officers concluded, that she was capable of having harmed her child; the sniffer dogs "reacted wildly to the scent of death" in the McCanns' car.
Then, on Friday, came the allegation that there were six hours of Madeleine's life unaccounted for on the afternoon of her disappearance. It was an accusation swiftly denied by Kate McCann's friends, who have consistently substantiated the family's version of events.
"The Portimão police were definitely furious that they were depicted as bumbling and ineffectual," confirms a Portuguese officer from another force. "They were especially furious about stories of their long, drunken lunches and their alleged willingness to force a confession to cover their ineffectual investigations.
They know they made mistakes – a whole catalogue – from failing to secure the crime scene, to leaving the border with Spain open for a further twelve hours after Madeleine vanished, to returning the hire car to the McCanns despite having allegedly found incriminating evidence inside.
But their own press would never write critically of them – they need to keep the relationship sweet. It was a slap in the face and a shock when the British press not only branded them inept but heaped ridicule upon them, too."
Chief Inspector Sousa could only look on in despair.
He knew that these leaks were long on exaggeration.
Then came the McCann retaliation which, Mr Sousa must have known, would be brisk, logical and based on sound facts.
Possibly unnerved by a recent British newspaper poll which revealed that only 20 per cent of the public considered them utterly innocent, and that almost half thought they could have been involved in their daughter's death, the couple's response was swift.
Within hours of an announcement by the Portuguese attorney general that local police had not gathered enough evidence yet to press charges against them, the McCanns had re-hired Clarence Mitchell, a former BBC reporter who had originally been assigned to them by the Foreign Office.
Mitchell, canny, erudite and well versed in media hardball — whose salary, it is believed, is being covered by Brian Kennedy, the millionaire owner of Sale Sharks rugby club — turned the couple from victims to combatants. He succinctly rebuffed the flimsy evidence against them, telling the Portuguese authorities to "put up or shut up".
Perhaps more significantly, the couple also swiftly assembled a world-class team of lawyers
Privately they admitted to relatives that they had been against seeking legal counsel: now they had no option. "Was it naivety or just total belief in their own innocence that they didn't think they needed a lawyer?" asks Gerry's brother John. "They were so convinced that because of their close collaboration with the police they didn't need one." Now, of course, they are all too aware that this "close collaboration" was a smokescreen: they did not realise was that the Portuguese police's efforts to find Madeleine had been lacklustre for some time.
Unbeknown to the McCanns, investigators had quickly decided Madeleine died the night she vanished.
All involved with the fightback are convinced of the McCanns' innocence.
But they acknowledge that the couple's public support has been battered by weeks of lurid allegations originating from the Portuguese police.
This weekend Kate and Gerry McCann are staying out of the media limelight. "Let's call it regrouping, re-energising," says a friend. "But make no mistake: while their primary, vital, aim is to keep the hunt for their daughter alive, they are aware that if they are not to risk ending up doing so from behind prison bars they must clear their names.
For they know, and we know, that the McCanns did not kill their daughter."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563938/Madeleine-McCann-police-chief-breaks-silence.html
-
Madeleine McCann: police chief breaks silence
12:01AM BST 23 Sep 2007
It was a moment of quiet satisfaction for Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa.
Since making his sudden, dramatic announcement exactly one week ago, that he was no longer prepared to act as the official Portuguese police spokesman in the Madeleine McCann investigation, he had pretty much maintained his silence.
To a tight trio of trusted colleagues he had confided that he was ''unhappy" about the inquiry and ''exasperated" with the constant leaks from junior officers who, in exchange for extravagant meals, were willing to either reveal snippets of confidential information, or to embroider vague facts if they felt that was what their moles in the Portuguese media wanted.
In public he has said nothing.
But this weekend Mr Sousa, for four months the public face of the Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance, has come clean.
He has made it clear to friends that he feels his resignation has been vindicated – and why.
He has acknowledged that the leaks were intended to push Kate and Gerry McCann into confessing they had killed their daughter.
More crucially, he believes that the concerted fightback by the McCanns will reveal that, for all the police posturing when they named the couple as suspects, their evidence was at best flimsy, at worst supposition. ''He has told me he always worried that the evidence against the McCanns was weak," says one former policeman. ''He was worried it would not bear scrutiny."
It has not been Mr Sousa's only concern over the investigation.
He also feels that he has been dragged into a war of words.
"He told me he felt caught in the middle of a propaganda war between his police colleagues and the McCanns," another investigator who has spoken to Mr Sousa confirmed.
He has complained that while fellow officers were leaking information illegally — Portugal has strict secrecy laws — the same officers would instruct him to deny the stories when printed. The problem for Sousa was that the denials rarely got into the media.
The result has been endless column inches slandering the McCanns. ''Some Portuguese journalists were fairly convinced the so-called evidence passed on to them by police was nowhere near as concrete as their sources suggested," says Jose Lugios, a freelance reporter based in the Algarve.
"The way it works here is that we can't get official police comments so we have to rely on tip-offs from them. We know they use us at times?…?as they did when they drip-fed us snippets that might exert enough pressure on the McCanns to confess.
But that's the strange way it works. It's the only way we can get crime stories."
Such lax practice has shocked even the country's politicians. ''The leaks to the press of some details that are supposed to be classified have been used as an easy way to manipulate and shape public opinion," says Francisco Louçã, leader of a Portuguese opposition party.
''It is clear the leaks have been used in a battle to turn public opinion against the McCanns and convince people they are guilty when there is no concrete evidence to support this," said another politician, who asked to remain anonymous.
For months the McCanns have been angered by snide suggestions that their PR machine, dubbed Team McCann — a term they hate — is too slick.
The truth is that it has not been, until now.
In Praia da Luz it was little more than a borrowed fax, two mobile telephones and Gerry McCann's Apple laptop. And while friends and family in the UK did what they could, in Portugal the McCanns had only one official spokesman, provided and paid for initially by the Foreign Office.
Last week that became a six-strong team, top-heavy on legal experts and media representatives.
That transformation was borne of necessity.
Not least because Mr Sousa's observation is nearer to the truth than he may know.
What began as a tale of heartbreaking loss has become a fierce propaganda battle, punctuated by smears and in-fighting. For an increasingly embittered Portuguese police force, to lose such a battle would mean world-wide ridicule, allegations that they have attempted to "fit up" an innocent mother and accusations from a £2.8 billion tourism industry that they were ruining the Algarve's reputation.
Yesterday there was additional embarrassment when it emerged unofficially that Robert Murat, the only other suspect in the case, is unlikely to face charges.
But the greater tragedy is that Madeleine's fate – to her parents' anguish – appears to have been forgotten.
Instead the propaganda war has led to lurid headlines such as "The DNA found in the McCanns' rented Renault Scenic, is 100 per cent positively that of Madeleine" and "McCanns killed Maddie with an accidental overdose of sedative".
Kate has been attacked as an unfit mother, who could not cope with her three toddlers and resented bearing the bulk of the child care; she had "lost control" in police interviews — proof, Portuguese officers concluded, that she was capable of having harmed her child; the sniffer dogs "reacted wildly to the scent of death" in the McCanns' car.
Then, on Friday, came the allegation that there were six hours of Madeleine's life unaccounted for on the afternoon of her disappearance. It was an accusation swiftly denied by Kate McCann's friends, who have consistently substantiated the family's version of events.
"The Portimão police were definitely furious that they were depicted as bumbling and ineffectual," confirms a Portuguese officer from another force. "They were especially furious about stories of their long, drunken lunches and their alleged willingness to force a confession to cover their ineffectual investigations.
They know they made mistakes – a whole catalogue – from failing to secure the crime scene, to leaving the border with Spain open for a further twelve hours after Madeleine vanished, to returning the hire car to the McCanns despite having allegedly found incriminating evidence inside.
But their own press would never write critically of them – they need to keep the relationship sweet. It was a slap in the face and a shock when the British press not only branded them inept but heaped ridicule upon them, too."
Chief Inspector Sousa could only look on in despair.
He knew that these leaks were long on exaggeration.
Then came the McCann retaliation which, Mr Sousa must have known, would be brisk, logical and based on sound facts.
Possibly unnerved by a recent British newspaper poll which revealed that only 20 per cent of the public considered them utterly innocent, and that almost half thought they could have been involved in their daughter's death, the couple's response was swift.
Within hours of an announcement by the Portuguese attorney general that local police had not gathered enough evidence yet to press charges against them, the McCanns had re-hired Clarence Mitchell, a former BBC reporter who had originally been assigned to them by the Foreign Office.
Mitchell, canny, erudite and well versed in media hardball — whose salary, it is believed, is being covered by Brian Kennedy, the millionaire owner of Sale Sharks rugby club — turned the couple from victims to combatants. He succinctly rebuffed the flimsy evidence against them, telling the Portuguese authorities to "put up or shut up".
Perhaps more significantly, the couple also swiftly assembled a world-class team of lawyers
Privately they admitted to relatives that they had been against seeking legal counsel: now they had no option. "Was it naivety or just total belief in their own innocence that they didn't think they needed a lawyer?" asks Gerry's brother John. "They were so convinced that because of their close collaboration with the police they didn't need one." Now, of course, they are all too aware that this "close collaboration" was a smokescreen: they did not realise was that the Portuguese police's efforts to find Madeleine had been lacklustre for some time.
Unbeknown to the McCanns, investigators had quickly decided Madeleine died the night she vanished.
All involved with the fightback are convinced of the McCanns' innocence.
But they acknowledge that the couple's public support has been battered by weeks of lurid allegations originating from the Portuguese police.
This weekend Kate and Gerry McCann are staying out of the media limelight. "Let's call it regrouping, re-energising," says a friend. "But make no mistake: while their primary, vital, aim is to keep the hunt for their daughter alive, they are aware that if they are not to risk ending up doing so from behind prison bars they must clear their names.
For they know, and we know, that the McCanns did not kill their daughter."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563938/Madeleine-McCann-police-chief-breaks-silence.html
what a great article...the only surprise is how some people pretend this isn't true whilst those with any sense realise exactly what was happening. it is the disgraceful behaviour of the Portuguese police and journalists that has spawned this on line abuse against the McCanns
-
what a great article...the only surprise is how some people pretend this isn't true whilst those with any sense realise exactly what was happening. it is the disgraceful behaviour of the Portuguese police and journalists that has spawned this on line abuse against the McCanns
All in the pay of the McCanns they'll say...
-
what a great article...the only surprise is how some people pretend this isn't true whilst those with any sense realise exactly what was happening. it is the disgraceful behaviour of the Portuguese police and journalists that has spawned this on line abuse against the McCanns
I had never read this particular article before.
Considering it was written in 2007 it gives a particularly insightful view of events.
Not only is it unequivocal about the how and the why of the leaks, it chronicles their part in the build up of the myths, intended initially as a short term expediency, which have continued to fuel the campaign directed against Madeleine and her family for nearly eight years.
-
Thanks Brietta, Great article.
The words of Mr Sousa, as told by his colleagues, seem to paint the perfect picture of what was really going on behind the scenes.
-
Thanks Brietta, Great article.
The words of Mr Sousa, seem to paint the perfect picture of what was really going on behind the scenes.
Sorry Anna I must have missed those words. As far as I can see there is not one direct quote from Mr Sousa in that article.
-
Sorry Anna I must have missed those words. As far as I can see there is not one direct quote from Mr Sousa in that article.
Of course you are absolutely, correct, Faith.
They are his words as interpreted/conveyed, by his friends/colleagues.
My apologies for any misunderstanding, my mistake may have caused.
-
Of course you are absolutely, correct, Faith.
They are his words as interpreted/conveyed, by his friends/colleagues.
My apologies for any misunderstanding, my mistake may have caused.
NP Anna ?{)(**
-
It appears that it didn't take the press leaks directed against Madeleine McCann's parents too long to hit the pages of the Portuguese press ... no time at all, investigative or otherwise for that particular thesis to be determined and publicised before any evidence which might have been relevant could possibly have been gathered, collated and discussed.
The question arises, if the PJ were concentrating on developing a case against Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends almost immediately ... how much time and energy were they expending on looking for a possible abductor let alone a living recoverable child?
It appears that the answer to that is ... none. They never looked for Madeleine McCann.
"This narrative was unfolding at a time when Maddie’s disappearance could still be counted in hours."
taken from
Spinning the Web: The influence of the Internet on the
reporting of crime and criminal justice in traditional
media
Joy Cameron-Dow, MComn
5.2.11 Representation of the criminal justice system
Yet the traditional media were not blameless. Greenhill, & Harris (2007, September 19, para. 1) reported in the Daily Mail that the propaganda campaign began “within 24 hours of Madeleine vanishing,” with a Portuguese police source alerting the daily newspaper Diario de Noticias on May 4 of doubts the child had been abducted.
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1064&context=theses
taken from
Jonbenet and Maddie: Case Studies in the Ethical Deficit of Contemporary Journalism
Professor Michael Tracey
Journalism and Mass Communication
University of Colorado at Boulder
Boulder, Colorado, 80309
USA
2.2 The Case of Madeleine McCann
By the following day at least one detective was telling journalists that there were doubts about whether Madeleine had really been abducted and that “police thought the couple were not telling the truth…” (Chrisman, 2007).
The story appeared the following day, Saturday May 5, in the respected Portuguese newspaper, Diario de Noticias.
The story, headlined “This Is A Very Badly Told Story,”had been written by Jose Manuel Oliveira who had received an off the record briefing by one of the top investigators of the Policia Judiciaria ( PJ ), the Portuguese criminal investigation police and said that “the headline/quote is based on the police and PJ sense that the testimonies gathered from the initial questioning of the McCanns, friends, and staff of the Ocean Club were confusing.
Oliveira believes this report was leaked because the PJ were beginning to have ‘doubts’ about the McCanns – that they were somehow connected or they knew someone who had had something to do with her disappearance – not at this stage that she might be dead.
Astonishingly Oliveria says he got the information from the PJ for this leak by 5pm., on the 4th May – less than 24 hours after Maddie disappeared…” ( Chrisman, 2007).
This was immediately denied by the JP, but on the 7th May Diario de Noticias published an article headlined “Police clues points to Madeleine’s death,” with an inside page headline “Port authority already looking for Madeleine’s body,” citing “police sources.”
At the same time another paper was reporting that police suspicions were based on the couple’s behavior, and one said that detectives “suspected them because their wives said Kate was too controlled to be the distraught mother” while another claimed forensic scientists reported that her controlled public appearance and make up indicated a “cold and manipulative” personality.
This narrative was unfolding at a time when Maddie’s disappearance could still be counted in hours.
http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_15_August_2013/1.pdf
-
Huge exaggerations, Brietta. They don't really help your cause.
-
Huge exaggerations, Brietta. They don't really help your cause.
I beg your pardon?
-
Interesting find, Brietta.
I just found the original:
"Esta é uma história muito mal contada"
por José Manuel Oliveira e Paula Martinheira
05 maio 2007
Uma criança inglesa desapareceu do quarto de hotel onde dormia com os irmãos mais novos, na Praia da Luz, no Algarve, enquanto os pais jantavam num restaurante do aldeamento. Autoridades e populares lançaram-se em megaoperação de busca, já alargada a Espanha.
O desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann, a criança inglesa de três anos que se encontrava de férias em Lagos, "é uma história muito mal contada", confidenciou ao DN fonte da Polícia Judiciária de Portimão. A afirmação reflecte as dúvidas das autoridades face aos depoimentos "confusos" expressos ontem pelas testemunhas ao longo de todo o dia.
(...)
http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=977892&especial=Caso%20Maddie&seccao=SOCIEDADE
-
That raises another question: if a PJ officer had already said that to the press, then what was that excuse about not doing a reconstruction again? Not wanting them to know that they were suspects? How does that work?
-
I beg your pardon?
The question arises, if the PJ were concentrating on developing a case against Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends almost immediately ... how much time and energy were they expending on looking for a possible abductor let alone a living recoverable child?
It appears that the answer to that is ... none. They never looked for Madeleine McCann.
Reads like propaganda.
It is huge exaggeration from the evidence you posted.
It is far more exaggerated than Madeleine's parents themselves have ever said.
-
The question arises, if the PJ were concentrating on developing a case against Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends almost immediately ... how much time and energy were they expending on looking for a possible abductor let alone a living recoverable child?
It appears that the answer to that is ... none. They never looked for Madeleine McCann.
Reads like propaganda.
It is huge exaggeration from the evidence you posted.
It is far more exaggerated than Madeleine's parents themselves have ever said.
A scholarly article without proper citation is evidence?
-
That raises another question: if a PJ officer had already said that to the press, then what was that excuse about not doing a reconstruction again? Not wanting them to know that they were suspects? How does that work?
There are so many questions about the conduct of Madeleine's case and the way in which the press was utilised to cement distrust of her parents into the public perception.
We know for sure that hours into Madeleine's disappearance not only were her parents being investigated ...
absolutely right and proper police procedure ... but not to the exclusion of every other avenue for investigation.
Having decided their guilt, what on earth would have been the point of going to the trouble and expense of actually looking for the real perpetrator by staging a reconstitution ... they had their woman and they were going to get their confession ... worked on at least one previous occasion.
-
There are so many questions about the conduct of Madeleine's case and the way in which the press was utilised to cement distrust of her parents into the public perception.
We know for sure that hours into Madeleine's disappearance not only were her parents being investigated ...
absolutely right and proper police procedure ... but not to the exclusion of every other avenue for investigation.
Having decided their guilt, what on earth would have been the point of going to the trouble and expense of actually looking for the real perpetrator by staging a reconstitution ... they had their woman and they were going to get their confession ... worked on at least one previous occasion.
They had their woman? &%+((£
The woman who had her husband in the room with her during the first interview, who missed the 2nd round of interviews altogether and who wasn't seen again for four months?
That evidence doesn't fit your theory.
-
The question arises, if the PJ were concentrating on developing a case against Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends almost immediately ... how much time and energy were they expending on looking for a possible abductor let alone a living recoverable child?
It appears that the answer to that is ... none. They never looked for Madeleine McCann.
Reads like propaganda.
It is huge exaggeration from the evidence you posted.
It is far more exaggerated than Madeleine's parents themselves have ever said.
If you are disputing the veracity of the sources I have used in forming my argument please counter with a valid argument backed up by sources of your own perhaps starting with an explanation of what I have exaggerated?
-
They had their woman? &%+((£
The woman who had her husband in the room with her during the first interview, who missed the 2nd round of interviews altogether and who wasn't seen again for four months?
That evidence doesn't fit your theory.
Please be kind enough to support your argument with the requisite cites.
-
Please be kind enough to support your argument with the requisite cites.
The McCann's book 8**8:/:
They are undisputed facts.
-
Sorry Anna I must have missed those words. As far as I can see there is not one direct quote from Mr Sousa in that article.
So intrinsically the article was 'created' by the Telegraph to support the McCann's.
Now do we have any witnessed statements from Portuguese officers to back it up ?
-
The McCann's book 8**8:/:
Neither of your posts contribute to the substance of the debate.
I have and will provide information to back up the claim that the case against the Drs McCann has been largely the result of leaks to the Portuguese press emanating from highly placed sources within the PJ, who at one time you would have thought didn't require backhanders, and that there were indeed too many public opinion manipulating leaks ... unless trial by media has replaced the criminal justice system.
The sad thing is that so many of these lies continue to be believed by some even today.
-
Neither of your posts contribute to the substance of the debate.
I have and will provide information to back up the claim that the case against the Drs McCann has been largely the result of leaks to the Portuguese press emanating from highly placed sources within the PJ, who at one time you would have thought didn't require backhanders, and that there were indeed too many public opinion manipulating leaks ... unless trial by media has replaced the criminal justice system.
The sad thing is that so many of these lies continue to be believed by some even today.
and the leaks and misinformation on behalf of the McCann's ?
Remember the Victoria Beckham 'lookalike' that was under investigation by Edgar and co. ?
Never was looked for. &%+((£
-
Neither of your posts contribute to the substance of the debate.
I have and will provide information to back up the claim that the case against the Drs McCann has been largely the result of leaks to the Portuguese press emanating from highly placed sources within the PJ, who at one time you would have thought didn't require backhanders, and that there were indeed too many public opinion manipulating leaks ... unless trial by media has replaced the criminal justice system.
The sad thing is that so many of these lies continue to be believed by some even today.
That's your opinion and that's fine. But you need to explain why Madeleine's parents themselves, and the rest of her family, don't agree with you.
You seem to be trying to suggest some things that occurred in August and September had their roots in May, when actually their roots were the alerts in early August. That's what Madeleine's parents themselves say.
-
That's your opinion and that's fine. But you need to explain why Madeleine's parents themselves, and the rest of her family, don't agree with you.
You seem to be trying to suggest some things that occurred in August and September had their roots in May, when actually their roots were the alerts in early August. That's what Madeleine's parents themselves say.
You may have read my posts but you haven't understood them.
Senior officers started leaking misinformation to the press within hours of Madeleine's disappearance.
The leaks were duly reported in the press using language still used by 'sceptics' today.
That was the genesis of the campaign directed against Madeleine McCann's family; I am sorry you do not accept that and nothing I say will make a dent in your armour but with respect you really do not know what the McCann family think ; IMO the libel case they were forced to take out indicates quite a lot.
-
You may have read my posts but you haven't understood them.
Senior officers started leaking misinformation to the press within hours of Madeleine's disappearance.
The leaks were duly reported in the press using language still used by 'sceptics' today.
That was the genesis of the campaign directed against Madeleine McCann's family; I am sorry you do not accept that and nothing I say will make a dent in your armour but with respect you really do not know what the McCann family think ; IMO the libel case they were forced to take out indicates quite a lot.
You have provided documents written by Joy Cameron-Dow and Tracey, which indicate there was some discussion between journalists and police very early.
Fair enough but then you state "they never looked for Madeleine McCann".
That's a massive leap. Too big a leap for Madeleine's family themselves, but obviously not for you. Yet you have no evidence to support the claim, or at least haven't shown any. Where's the evidence? Joy Cameron-Dow and Tracey don't provide any for your accusation.
-
Hmmm.
The GNR and associated S & R entities did search for her as best they could, trying to adapt their training and experience to an unusual situation.
The PJ clearly suspected the McCanns / T7, but also followed the "lead" concerning Murat, which led nowhere.
Then... they were stuck. No obvious forensic leads (they didn't have a DNA database anyway), nothing they could actually pin on Murat, no national sex offender register... and so it was no doubt easier to go back to assuming the parents were involved and concentrate on that.
They didn't have a crime investigation manual to assist until sometime in 2009.
Shoe-horning had worked in the Cipriano affair, the only other case of a missing child that the lead investigator with 27 years of experience had worked on, but slippery stairs weren't an option this time.
The propaganda machine was the only weapon (and that was used extensively in the previous case, with effective results in terms of securing a conviction).
To this day, anyone questioning the lack of evidence or the absurd theory in the Cipriano case gets branded as a child-murderer supporter, so the propaganda machine clearly did work.
-
Please adhere to the topic, being discussed on this thread.
-
The fact that there were leaks from the PJ on the Madeleine case is all over the Internet, including via hacks providing testimony in the Leveson inquiry.
Similar leaks occurred during the build-up to the Cipriano case.
However, I have no intention of making the mods' job any more difficult than it already is, which is why I supported a separate sub-forum on that case.
I do NOT support child-murderers / abusers. I DO support potential miscarriages of justice, which, perhaps coincidentally, happens to be the title of this forum.
There is a Cipriano sub-forum which I'm sure that you can all find.
-
Some totally mangled myths based on misunderstood forensics continue to be posted as fact to this day.
Steve Kingston may have said this at some point, if that is what he was given as "news" to report, but anyone who has actually read the files would know that it is doesn't correspond to any such thing in the files. So why do some people insist on repeating long-discredited erroneous "information"?
Martin Brunt found himself in the same situation at the time.
Steve Kingston's story of a laryngeal blood spray pattern disappeared off t BBC website on t day K8 Healey was made an arguida.#mccann
3:58 am - 3 Feb 2015
https://twitter.com/vivienmiss/status/562580835694804992
Two questions:
- who fed this to the media at the time?
- why do Amaral supporters continue to support out-dated "news" that has no basis in fact?
-
The fact that there were leaks from the PJ on the Madeleine case is all over the Internet, including via hacks providing testimony in the Leveson inquiry.
Similar leaks occurred during the build-up to the Cipriano case.
However, I have no intention of making the mods' job any more difficult than it already is, which is why I supported a separate sub-forum on that case.
I do NOT support child-murderers / abusers. I DO support potential miscarriages of justice, which, perhaps coincidentally, happens to be the title of this forum.
There is a Cipriano sub-forum which I'm sure that you can all find.
The msm does not come out well from Madeleine McCann's case and this has been accepted and proven as the following from LEVESON indicates ...
The McCanns
Leveson devotes almost 12 pages to the McCann family. Some of the reporting of the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine McCann from Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007 was, Leveson says, "outrageous". A number of newspapers were "guilty of gross libels", with the Daily Star singled out for its headline claiming the McCanns sold their child: "Maddie sold by hard up McCanns".
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/nov/29/leveson-report-key-points
I don't think there has been anything like it and the longevity of the lies is stupefying .
“Nature abhors a vacuum” exemplifies a failure of the Portuguese Secrecy Laws which allowed such character assassination ... particularly sad because in the case of a missing person the Secrecy Laws can be relaxed.
If this had happened in Madeleine's case one wonders if the common currency of misinformation might have been ameliorated.
-
No one is looking for Joana Cipriano, yet she could be holed up somewhere.
It may be highly unlikely that Madeleine could be with her... but who knows?
The Dutroux victims weren't all of the same age. And at least two could have been saved.
-
The msm does not come out well from Madeleine McCann's case and this has been accepted and proven as the following from LEVESON indicates ...
The McCanns
Leveson devotes almost 12 pages to the McCann family. Some of the reporting of the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine McCann from Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007 was, Leveson says, "outrageous". A number of newspapers were "guilty of gross libels", with the Daily Star singled out for its headline claiming the McCanns sold their child: "Maddie sold by hard up McCanns".
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/nov/29/leveson-report-key-points
And the McCanns told the truth at that inquiry? Clarrie doll was leaking to the media anyone want to shriek, squeal, or just have a sharp in take of breath at such a claim? I mean, imagine your daughter is abducted and the Sky news get hold of the story and your family are telling what happened...*SHUDDERS*
I don't think there has been anything like it and the longevity of the lies is stupefying .
“Nature abhors a vacuum” exemplifies a failure of the Portuguese Secrecy Laws which allowed such character assassination ... particularly sad because in the case of a missing person the Secrecy Laws can be relaxed.
If this had happened in Madeleine's case one wonders if the common currency of misinformation might have been ameliorated.