UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: slartibartfast on February 03, 2015, 08:30:57 AM
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it strikes me reading a number of recent topics that some discrepancies in the statements of those concerned could be attributed to alcohol consumption. There doesn't appear to be any solid information in the files around the amount that was drunk but I would assume that the PJ would have tried to ascertain the condition of the witnesses so that they weigh the reliability of each. What does the forum think?
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Jane Tanner can't handle her drink or she transforms into a flip floppin' ninja after having a few 8)--))
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The McCanns have difficulty crying and are abnormal.
He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying. He did not feel that this was an abduction, although this was the line indicated by the father. (José María Batista Roque)
Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios.
He (Gerry) said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off. (Graham McKenzie)
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No matter how some may hate this, the drinking issue won't go away.
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it strikes me reading a number of recent topics that some discrepancies in the statements of those concerned could be attributed to alcohol consumption. There doesn't appear to be any solid information in the files around the amount that was drunk but I would assume that the PJ would have tried to ascertain the condition of the witnesses so that they weigh the reliability of each. What does the forum think?
AFAIK there are no reports of any of them being inebriated - either from the police - or from witnesses.
The wine came with the meal - which started at around 9.00p.m - the alarm was raised an hour later. During that hour they consumed a three course meal. Hardly time to become inebriated IMO. Especially JT and Russell who both spent part of that hour away from the table and in their apartment - because their little girl was unwell.
AFAIK no-one know whether all the bottles or glasses were empty or not when the alarm was raised. So even the number of bottles of wine provided doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture. IMO.
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AFAIK there are no reports of any of them being inebriated - either from the police - or from witnesses.
The wine came with the meal - which started at around 9.00p.m - the alarm was raised an hour later. During that hour they consumed a three course meal. Hardly time to become inebriated IMO. Especially JT and Russell who both spent part of that hour away from the table and in their apartment - because their little girl was unwell.
AFAIK no-one know whether all the bottles or glasses were empty or not when the alarm was raised. So even the number of bottles of wine provided doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture. IMO.
They drank each night. FACT.
Alcohol distracts. FACT.
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The McCanns have difficulty crying and are abnormal.
He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying. He did not feel that this was an abduction, although this was the line indicated by the father. (José María Batista Roque)
Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios.
He (Gerry) said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off. (Graham McKenzie)
So all those people who commented on the truly horrendous, terrible state both Gerry and Kate were in - are lying are they? Surely you don't really believe that.
IMO Gerry said 'Our little girl has been abducted' not 'A little girl........ '. His Glasgow accent may have accounted for Mrs Fenn thinking the latter.
IMO virtually the first thing any parent would think is that their child had been taken by a paedaphile. I know I would - and that is exactly what I thought when I first heard that Madeleine had been abducted. That's why it's called 'every parent's worst nightmare' IMO
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Course, the McCanns system of checks was just like any baby listening service, wasn't it.
One where the baby listener gets pissed.
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So all those people who commented on the truly horrendous, terrible state both Gerry and Kate were in - are lying are they? Surely you don't really believe that.
IMO Gerry said 'Our little girl has been abducted' not 'A little girl........ '. His Glasgow accent may have accounted for Mrs Fenn thinking the latter.
IMO virtually the first thing any parent would think is that their child had been taken by a paedaphile. I know I would - and that is exactly what I thought when I first heard that Madeleine had been abducted. That's why it's called 'every parent's worst nightmare' IMO
Open window + empty bed = it was paedos wot dunnit.
Genius!
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In relation to alcohol consumption, it never appeared to me to be excessive. The wine was included in the dinner at Tapas and the functionaries were very generous in this respect. The permission was approximately one bottler per person . According to what I remember, and relative to the consumption of alcohol, there were seven bottles between the nine adults. I believe that on the first or second night they dined in the Tapas, they drank a bit more, perhaps eight or nine bottles of wine. I believe that they were also offered liquor this night, as they had been such good clients. The behaviour of the table did not change the night in questions. If anything, the group jested more than usual but no one appeared drunk.
Jeronimo Salcedas.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JERONIMO-SALCEDAS.htm
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In relation to alcohol consumption, it never appeared to me to be excessive. The wine was included in the dinner at Tapas and the functionaries were very generous in this respect. The permission was approximately one bottler per person . According to what I remember, and relative to the consumption of alcohol, there were seven bottles between the nine adults. I believe that on the first or second night they dined in the Tapas, they drank a bit more, perhaps eight or nine bottles of wine. I believe that they were also offered liquor this night, as they had been such good clients. The behaviour of the table did not change the night in questions. If anything, the group jested more than usual but no one appeared drunk.
Jeronimo Salcedas.
8 or 9 bottles divided by 9 = roughly a bottle each.
So, pissed they were then.
They certainly wouldn't be fit to drive anyways, & I wouldn't have them babysit.
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'The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.'
I doubt they shared the glass, so, one glass( 1.5 units) each before they left.
Plus a minimum of 1 or 2 glasses at the table = unfit to drive.
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'The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.'
I doubt they shared the glass, so, one glass( 1.5 units) each before they left.
Plus a minimum of 1 or 2 glasses at the table = unfit to drive.
Cue all the old bolleaux that came out when the breathalyser was introduced over here.
"I can drive better with three pints of Waddies in me" to
"I am much more lucid after I have consumed half a bottle of Chateau d'Yquem"
Despite all the evidence to the contrary.
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AFAIK there are no reports of any of them being inebriated - either from the police - or from witnesses.
The wine came with the meal - which started at around 9.00p.m - the alarm was raised an hour later. During that hour they consumed a three course meal. Hardly time to become inebriated IMO. Especially JT and Russell who both spent part of that hour away from the table and in their apartment - because their little girl was unwell.
AFAIK no-one know whether all the bottles or glasses were empty or not when the alarm was raised. So even the number of bottles of wine provided doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture. IMO.
Quite strange that the supporters claim that alcohol played no part in inconsistent statements. I would have thought it a good explanation.
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Dredging the depths just a little more than usual with this thread are we not?
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They doubtless wouldn't have passed a roadside breathalizer, but none was driving.
Unlike (all to frequently) the man who was investigating them. Often while way over the limit ...
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They doubtless wouldn't have passed a roadside breathalizer, but none was driving.
Unlike (all to frequently) the man who was investigating them. Often while way over the limit ...
So you have proof he was over the limit when investigating ?
What is the legal limit in Portugal ?
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Quite strange that the supporters claim that alcohol played no part in inconsistent statements. I would have thought it a good explanation.
But they been drinking within the bounds of "responsible alcohol consumption"; one of the baristas in the restaurant said so (allegedly)
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But they been drinking within the bounds of "responsible alcohol consumption"; one of the baristas in the restaurant said so (allegedly)
That's a bit like the barman in the last pub in the pub crawl saying they had only had one drink.
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8 or 9 bottles divided by 9 = roughly a bottle each.
So, pissed they were then.
They certainly wouldn't be fit to drive anyways, & I wouldn't have them babysit.
It would be perfectly normal to serve 2 bottles of white and 2 bottles of red, plus water at a table of that size. Then, replace empty bottles, either automatically, or upon request.
Two- to- three dcl of wine over the course of a meal when you don't have to drive anywhere and you're staying next door doesn't seem excessive to me.
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Quite strange that the supporters claim that alcohol played no part in inconsistent statements. I would have thought it a good explanation.
The statements were made on 4 May, starting relatively early. Many had been up all night in a state of panic.
Were all police officers sober on the morning of 4 May?
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It would be perfectly normal to serve 2 bottles of white and 2 bottles of red, plus water at a table of that size. Then, replace empty bottles, either automatically, or upon request.
Two- to- three dcl of wine over the course of a meal when you don't have to drive anywhere and you're staying next door doesn't seem excessive to me.
Would you let your babysitter drink?
& they weren't next door.
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So you have proof he was over the limit when investigating ?
What is the legal limit in Portugal ?
I believe, in all Europe, a little more than half the UK limit ...
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At major points during the investigation, Amaral was in a bar (including late at night on 3 May), by his own admission.
One of his gripes about the media was that if they had said he drank beer at lunchtime, they would have been correct.
His wife even complained about his drink-driving when she was worried about their young daughter. The police ticket on that has already been posted on here.
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The effects of alcohol on the brain are well recorded. Not to mention the effect on the liver over prolonged periods.
"Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Some of these impairments are detectable after only one or two drinks and quickly resolve when drinking stops".
So can someone make out a case for T9 and G. Amaral be atypical ?
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It would be perfectly normal to serve 2 bottles of white and 2 bottles of red, plus water at a table of that size. Then, replace empty bottles, either automatically, or upon request.
Two- to- three dcl of wine over the course of a meal when you don't have to drive anywhere and you're staying next door doesn't seem excessive to me.
Why do you assume it is excessive, they were on holiday. Whether it impaired their memories is another matter.
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it strikes me reading a number of recent topics that some discrepancies in the statements of those concerned could be attributed to alcohol consumption. There doesn't appear to be any solid information in the files around the amount that was drunk but I would assume that the PJ would have tried to ascertain the condition of the witnesses so that they weigh the reliability of each. What does the forum think?
Are you suggesting that discrepancies in their respective statements could have a very simple explanation and that is that their memory and judgement were impaired by the imbibing of a few drinks prior to the events of May 3rd @ 10pm? Hmm...not sure how well that will play to those who insist that these discrepancies are deliberate lies....
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it appears to me the translators had been drinking
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...and of course if any were on medication. Anti- depressants or even paracetamol... Hmm big impact.
I would suspect that they may have sobered up instantly with shock, or became delirious with fear... Kate was worried what people would say...
The sad fact is, they spent very little time with their children on that holiday.
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Are you suggesting that discrepancies in their respective statements could have a very simple explanation and that is that their memory and judgement were impaired by the imbibing of a few drinks prior to the events of May 3rd @ 10pm? Hmm...not sure how well that will play to those who insist that these discrepancies are deliberate lies....
I am suggesting it needs to be thrown into the mix. The reconstruction would have helped.
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I don't recall reading of anyone stating that the McCann's or any of the friends were drunk on the evening of the 3rd of May.
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I don't recall reading of anyone stating that the McCann's or any of the friends were drunk on the evening of the 3rd of May.
I didn't say drunk?