UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Eleanor on January 29, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
-
The Portuguese Secrecy Laws were obviously broken, if not worse.
16
-
I think he would have been aware of the Secrecy laws.
-
I think he would have been aware of the Secrecy laws.
Does the fact that the judge said amaral broke the secrecy laws actually mean he did...do you have a cite...or does it mean something completely different like other statements made by legal peeps in this case
-
I think he would have been aware of the Secrecy laws.
Whether you like it or not, the internet overrides that.
and leaks will always occur.
-
Whether you like it or not, the internet overrides that.
and leaks will always occur.
In Portugal? Heaven forfend.
-
I suppose if Dr Amaral broke the secrecy laws of Portugal, it can be proven and someone wishes to prosecute him then he will wind up in court. Unless the Portuguese want to "do a Nelson" of course *.
It always struck me that the Portuguese secrecy laws were in fact a bit complex and not readily understood by yer actual average internet punter thereby making endless debate possible like is a Zebra black with white stripes or white with black stripes?
* don't all shout xenophobic comments at once. *&*%£
-
I suppose if Dr Amaral broke the secrecy laws of Portugal, it can be proven and someone wishes to prosecute him then he will wind up in court. Unless the Portuguese want to "do a Nelson" of course *.
It always struck me that the Portuguese secrecy laws were in fact a bit complex and not readily understood by yer actual average internet punter thereby making endless debate possible like is a Zebra black with white stripes or white with black stripes?
* don't all shout xenophobic comments at once. *&*%£
It appears the judge has made the statement..no debate ..no internet punter..
-
One might wonder if Amaral received The Gaspar Statements and "Accidentally" mislaid them.
You are probably correct there, Eleanor.
Amaral had no right to use any files in his book. The book would have been written well before the release date. All the photos he used were from the files.
Case archived 21/7/2008
Book launched 24/7/2008
Files released to public 4/8/2008
First payment he received of €22.500 16/7/2008.
-
His book was released after the files were released. He didn't officially retire from the PJ until 1 July 2008.
Tuesday 01 July 2008
Thanks to ‘astro’ for translation
The controversial coordinator, who was removed from the Maddie case, says he “leaves proud” and that he is not “hurt”. His last action was delivering the service mobile phone
The PJ’s coordinator, Gonçalo Amaral, who was removed from the Maddie case over an opinion offence, is, from today onwards, a free man. At midnight, he went into retirement and, according to what he told 24horas yesterday, his first day “is going to be beautiful, with plenty to do and the ability to savour the plenitude of his freedom of expression”.
Just enigmatic enough, Gonçalo Amaral, aged 49, had his last day at the PJ yesterday, “a perfectly normal day”. He arrived early, finished the operation into the process that lead, over the weekend, to the apprehension of two and a half tons of hashish and the detention of six traffickers, and dispatched a few more cases. Before lunch, which lasted from 1 p.m. until 3 p.m., the controversial coordinator of criminal investigation delivered his duty pistol, his badge and his card at the Faro Directory. At the end of the day, around 5.30 p.m., he delivered his service mobile phone.
http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/goncalo-amaral-the-interviews-july-08/
-
Of course they wouldn't Anna. You would think they would have picked up on a few things written too.
So does that mean that the publishers read the book, while it was still under Secrecy?
-
His book was released after the files were released. He didn't officially retire from the PJ until 1 July 2008.
Tuesday 01 July 2008
Thanks to ‘astro’ for translation
The controversial coordinator, who was removed from the Maddie case, says he “leaves proud” and that he is not “hurt”. His last action was delivering the service mobile phone
The PJ’s coordinator, Gonçalo Amaral, who was removed from the Maddie case over an opinion offence, is, from today onwards, a free man. At midnight, he went into retirement and, according to what he told 24horas yesterday, his first day “is going to be beautiful, with plenty to do and the ability to savour the plenitude of his freedom of expression”.
Just enigmatic enough, Gonçalo Amaral, aged 49, had his last day at the PJ yesterday, “a perfectly normal day”. He arrived early, finished the operation into the process that lead, over the weekend, to the apprehension of two and a half tons of hashish and the detention of six traffickers, and dispatched a few more cases. Before lunch, which lasted from 1 p.m. until 3 p.m., the controversial coordinator of criminal investigation delivered his duty pistol, his badge and his card at the Faro Directory. At the end of the day, around 5.30 p.m., he delivered his service mobile phone.
http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/goncalo-amaral-the-interviews-july-08/ (http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/goncalo-amaral-the-interviews-july-08/)
Wrong.
English translations - McCann PJ files (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm)www.mccann (http://www.mccann)pjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htmThis information belongs to the Ministerio Publico in Portimao, Portugal. It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law ...
-
So does that mean that the publishers read the book, while it was still under Secrecy?
I would say so Anna, same as CM who printed from the book the day of release.
That's why I believe the judge did say he broke the secrecy law.
-
I would say so Anna, same as CM who printed from the book the day of release.
That's why I believe the judge did say he broke the secrecy law.
Thank you DCI, For that very helpful, information.
-
Thank you DCI, For that very helpful, information.
From Pathfinders link.
03 July 2008
Note: Tomorrow Expresso will publish the full interview. The book is finished. 200 pages. Ready for publishing “immediately” upon the secrecy being lifted. Also notice Mr. Gonçalo Amaral has a good sense of humour, his already grilling some sardines. -
-
From Pathfinders link.
03 July 2008
Note: Tomorrow Expresso will publish the full interview. The book is finished. 200 pages. Ready for publishing “immediately” upon the secrecy being lifted. Also notice Mr. Gonçalo Amaral has a good sense of humour, his already grilling some sardines. -
Was the supposed breaking of the secrecy law one of the points cited by the McCanns in their writ ? Because if not I'm not sure why you feel it relevant.
-
Was the supposed breaking of the secrecy law one of the points cited by the McCanns in their writ ? Because if not I'm not sure why you feel it relevant.
The secrecy law was not included in the current damages case.
-
The secrecy law was not included in the current damages case.
Of course not Montclair.
And it's interesting that the faithful think the accounts of the PUBLICLY funded company run by the McCanns is none of our business yet chew over Amaral's PRIVATE income like so many rabid dogs ( sorry not supposed to mention dogs ) on a week old carcass.
Now that really is hypocrisy.
-
bump
-
Just as a matter of interest ... does anyone know how many people have been punished for breaking the Judicial Secrecy Laws of Portugal?
A brief search reveals that in Britain prosecutions, some resulting in heavy sentences depending on the severity of the offence, take place on a regular basis.
Man arrested over alleged Official Secrets Act breach
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-26995615
CPS decides no retrial for Daniel James - soldier faces sentence over Official Secrets breach http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/172_08/
Submariner sentenced for breaching Official Secrets Act
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/news/news-by-category/criminal-cases/submariner-sentenced-for-breaching-official-secrets-act.html
Counter-terrorism officer charged with breaching Official Secrets Act
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/9579352/Counter-terrorism-officer-charged-with-breaching-Official-Secrets-Act.html
A London police borough commander has been sacked by a disciplinary panel for giving details of a "sensitive" police investigation to a journalist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30858871
-
Of course not Montclair.
And it's interesting that the faithful think the accounts of the PUBLICLY funded company run by the McCanns is none of our business yet chew over Amaral's PRIVATE income like so many rabid dogs ( sorry not supposed to mention dogs ) on a week old carcass.
Now that really is hypocrisy.
IMO the accusation of hypocrisy against sceptics is because they constantly criticise the lack of detail which they demand should be shown in the fund accounts. They claim that they are entitled to know every tiny little expenditure - because donations were made by the public. But simultaneously they completely approve - and have no criticism whatsoever of Amaral's decision to give no account at all of how donations to his fund also made by the public, have been used.
How anyone can claim that stance is not hypocritical is a mystery to me.
-
Does the fact that the judge said amaral broke the secrecy laws actually mean he did...do you have a cite...or does it mean something completely different like other statements made by legal peeps in this case
When did the judge say that Gonçalo Amaral broke the secrecy laws? She did not say a word about secrecy laws since that question was not part of the trial. Isabel Duarte did try to put her spin on it when the first manipulated news about the proven and unproven facts were given to the news agency Lusa.
-
When did the judge say that Gonçalo Amaral broke the secrecy laws? She did not say a word about secrecy laws since that question was not part of the trial. Isabel Duarte did try to put her spin on it when the first manipulated news about the proven and unproven facts were given to the news agency Lusa.
Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.[/color]
Because according to the defense of the parents of the missing child to May 3, 2007, the book was given as ready three days after the prosecutor of the Republic of Portimão, Magalhães Menezes, had written the order of termination of proceedings against the McCanns dated notification of July 29, 2008
-
IMO the accusation of hypocrisy against sceptics is because they constantly criticise the lack of detail which they demand should be shown in the fund accounts. They claim that they are entitled to know every tiny little expenditure - because donations were made by the public. But simultaneously they completely approve - and have no criticism whatsoever of Amaral's decision to give no account at all of how donations to his fund also made by the public, have been used.
How anyone can claim that stance is not hypocritical is a mystery to me.
But Benice I'm not referring to the legal fund set up by well-wishers to finance Amaral's defence but his PRIVATE finances.
-
Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.[/color]
Because according to the defense of the parents of the missing child to May 3, 2007, the book was given as ready three days after the prosecutor of the Republic of Portimão, Magalhães Menezes, had written the order of termination of proceedings against the McCanns dated notification of July 29, 2008
I notice the 'which is a violation of the secrecy of justice' is not in quote marks which I assume is because the judge didn't say it. Care to supply the whole article ?
-
Just as a matter of interest ... does anyone know how many people have been punished for breaking the Judicial Secrecy Laws of Portugal?
A brief search reveals that in Britain prosecutions, some resulting in heavy sentences depending on the severity of the offence, take place on a regular basis.
Man arrested over alleged Official Secrets Act breach
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-26995615
CPS decides no retrial for Daniel James - soldier faces sentence over Official Secrets breach http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/172_08/
Submariner sentenced for breaching Official Secrets Act
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/news/news-by-category/criminal-cases/submariner-sentenced-for-breaching-official-secrets-act.html
Counter-terrorism officer charged with breaching Official Secrets Act
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/9579352/Counter-terrorism-officer-charged-with-breaching-Official-Secrets-Act.html
A London police borough commander has been sacked by a disciplinary panel for giving details of a "sensitive" police investigation to a journalist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30858871
There have been a few prosecutions in Portugal
- PJ inspector José Torrão (Setúbal) got an 8-month suspended sentence for leaking about the never-ending Freeport saga (but he was seemingly caught red-handed). I have no idea if the sentence was upheld on appeal or not.
Inspector da PJ condenado a 8 meses de pena suspensa
Data: 2007.07.18
Fonte: JN
Autor: Redacção
Jornalistas Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira foram absolvidos. O ex-inspector da PJ José Torrão foi ontem condenado a oito meses de pena suspensa por violação de segredo de justiça, no âmbito do caso Freeport . A pena foi suspensa por 18 meses, mediante o compromisso de entregar cinco mil euros à Quercus. Os dois jornalistas envolvidos no processo, Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira, foram absolvidos do mesmo crime, de acordo com a Lusa. A defesa do ex-inspector da PJ de Setúbal anunciou que vai decorrer da sentença para o Tribunal da Relação de Lisboa.
http://www.tretas.org/Freeport/Artigos
- There was another prosecution involving quite a few PJ officers in the Casa Pia affair, IIRC. I'll add a link when I find one.
- There also seem to be noises about cracking down on it more generally, but it might just be... noise.
http://pesquisa.rtp.pt/default.aspx?relid=19230&ind=rtpnoticias
- A general article by Henrique Monteiro (11 Jan 2014) on the subject, discussing various options ETA I modified my original wording to read: from the perspective of journalists. Unfortunately, I can only get the gist of it as his prose is somewhat above that of CdaM.
A general summary of what I think I understand (with apologies if I've got some of it wrong and the points don't necessarily follow the ones made in the article):
The gripe seems to be that judicial secrecy is in theory so all-encompassing that journalists have a hard time doing their job. Some end up as arguidos and are not even sure what they've done wrong. Others often completely ignore it, which ironically sometimes leads to cases of injustice. (He mentions the "British example" early on - by which I presume he means the Leveson inquiry.)
One proposal on the table appears to be recorded conversations between journalists and their sources... (I can't see that ever happening.)
His view seems to be that judicial secrecy should be the exception rather than the norm, and journalists should be given more access to information, with clearer guidelines as to the boundaries, as well as being given justified reasons why some cases may need to be off limits (I'm not sure if he means during the investigation phase or whether he means the entire judicial process). If journalists are told to shut up, then all journalists must respect it and clear sanctions should be imposed if it is broken.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/contra-o-segredo-de-justica-e-um-aplauso-a-pgr=f850074
-
There have been a few prosecutions in Portugal
- PJ inspector José Torrão (Setúbal) got an 8-month suspended sentence for leaking about the never-ending Freeport saga (but he was seemingly caught red-handed). I have no idea if the sentence was upheld on appeal or not.
Inspector da PJ condenado a 8 meses de pena suspensa
Data: 2007.07.18
Fonte: JN
Autor: Redacção
Jornalistas Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira foram absolvidos. O ex-inspector da PJ José Torrão foi ontem condenado a oito meses de pena suspensa por violação de segredo de justiça, no âmbito do caso Freeport . A pena foi suspensa por 18 meses, mediante o compromisso de entregar cinco mil euros à Quercus. Os dois jornalistas envolvidos no processo, Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira, foram absolvidos do mesmo crime, de acordo com a Lusa. A defesa do ex-inspector da PJ de Setúbal anunciou que vai decorrer da sentença para o Tribunal da Relação de Lisboa.
http://www.tretas.org/Freeport/Artigos
- There was another prosecution involving quite a few PJ officers in the Casa Pia affair, IIRC. I'll add a link when I find one.
- There also seem to be noises about cracking down on it more generally, but it might just be... noise.
http://pesquisa.rtp.pt/default.aspx?relid=19230&ind=rtpnoticias
- A general article by Henrique Monteiro (11 Jan 2014) on the subject, discussing various options concerning journalists who break it. Unfortunately, I can only get the gist of it as his prose is somewhat above that of CdaM.
A general summary of what I think I understand (with apologies if I've got some of it wrong and the points don't necessarily follow the ones made in the article):
The gripe seems to be that judicial secrecy is in theory so all-encompassing that journalists have a hard time doing their job. Some end up as arguidos and are not even sure what they've done wrong. Others often completely ignore it, which ironically sometimes leads to cases of injustice. (He mentions the "British example" early on - by which I presume he means the Leveson inquiry.)
One proposal on the table appears to be recorded conversations between journalists and their sources... (I can't see that ever happening.)
His view seems to be that judicial secrecy should be the exception rather than the norm, and journalists should be given more access to information, with clearer guidelines as to the boundaries, as well as being given justified reasons why some cases may need to be off limits (I'm not sure if he means during the investigation phase or whether he means the entire judicial process). If journalists are told to shut up, then all journalists must respect it and clear sanctions should be imposed if it is broken.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/contra-o-segredo-de-justica-e-um-aplauso-a-pgr=f850074
And what about Tanner discussing the case on Panorama or indeed Gerry briefing David James Smith for his Beyond the Smears article ? Or are you also subscribing to the idea that if they spoke publicly in the UK then no laws were broken ?
-
And what about Tanner discussing the case on Panorama or indeed Gerry briefing David James Smith for his Beyond the Smears article ? Or are you also subscribing to the idea that if they spoke publicly in the UK then no laws were broken ?
We've had this discussion before.
- I simply don't know whether JT technically broke it or not. Despite various PT pundits declaring that the McCanns had broken judicial secrecy and had signed the child's fate by publicising the fleck in her eye, one of the few things I give Amaral credit for was actually organising a description of her (including the eye detail) very quickly. The McCanns had been on TV to present the type of pyjamas she had been wearing. Was that a breach of secrecy? Or was it publicising details that could have helped to find her that the PJ hadn't done? JT's description of what she'd seen was surely in the same vein: trying to jog people's memories to help find the missing child.
ETA: I find it inconceivable that Panorama did not seek legal advice concerning the content. JT may have also sought legal advice independently.
- David James Smith is an investigative journalist. Do you have a reliable source that Gerry briefed him?
-
I notice the 'which is a violation of the secrecy of justice' is not in quote marks which I assume is because the judge didn't say it. Care to supply the whole article ?
why bother...you won't accept anything that doesn't fit with your views
-
But Benice I'm not referring to the legal fund set up by well-wishers to finance Amaral's defence but his PRIVATE finances.
I was explaining to you why people find sceptics to be hypocritical. You brought Madeleine's Fund into the equation.
There has been plenty of discussion over the years about the McCanns private income - even down to assessing Gerry's salary.
What is never discussed by sceptics is the extent of their own money the McCanns have put into the fund and the considerable amount of money they have raised for charity. It has however been sneered at on occasions. Very sad IMO.
-
We've had this discussion before.
- I simply don't know whether JT technically broke it or not. Despite various PT pundits declaring that the McCanns had broken judicial secrecy and had signed the child's fate by publicising the fleck in her eye, one of the few things I give Amaral credit for was actually organising a description of her (including the eye detail) very quickly. The McCanns had been on TV to present the type of pyjamas she had been wearing. Was that a breach of secrecy? Or was it publicising details that could have helped to find her that the PJ hadn't done? JT's description of what she'd seen was surely in the same vein: trying to jog people's memories to help find the missing child.
ETA: I find it inconceivable that Panorama did not seek legal advice concerning the content. JT may have also sought legal advice independently.
- David James Smith is an investigative journalist. Do you have a reliable source that Gerry briefed him?
But we are not talking about descriptions are we Carana, we are talking about detail and, yes, we have had this discussion before and we will probably have it again in the future too as a consensus is extremely unlikely.
-
why bother...you won't accept anything that doesn't fit with your views
That'll be a no then.
However I do love this little gem of duplicity as it shows the spin employed by certain parties in all its abhorrent, dishonest glory.
The judge said that Amaral's book, contrary to the McCanns claims, was based on information from the files. Strike one for Amaral you would have thought. But no, once it has been put through the McCann spin cycle, via Duarte and Lusa, it actually means that the judge thinks Amaral has broken the judicial secrecy law. You really couldn't make this up.
-
It appears the judge has made the statement..no debate ..no internet punter..
It rather looks more like someone said the judge said.
-
That'll be a no then.
However I do love this little gem of duplicity as it shows the spin employed by certain parties in all its abhorrent, dishonest glory.
The judge said that Amaral's book, contrary to the McCanns claims, was based on information from the files. Strike one for Amaral you would have thought. But no, once it has been put through the McCann spin cycle, via Duarte and Lusa, it actually means that the judge thinks Amaral has broken the judicial secrecy law. You really couldn't make this up.
As far as I can work out, a breach of judicial secrecy would be the object of a potential criminal prosecution and therefore beyond the scope of points to consider in the current civil trial.
I could be wrong, but at least that's how I understand the situation.
-
It rather looks more like someone said the judge said.
Isn't it all just that?
-
As far as I can work out, a breach of judicial secrecy would be the object of a potential criminal prosecution and therefore beyond the scope of points to consider in the current civil trial.
I could be wrong, but at least that's how I understand the situation.
Breach of secrecy is relevant to the libel trial in one, crucial, respect. It annuls the principle to s/he who is willing no harm can come, which might otherwise have annulled the McCanns' action.
But I agree it is unlikely that will play a part in the final judgment.
-
From Pathfinders link.
03 July 2008
Note: Tomorrow Expresso will publish the full interview. The book is finished. 200 pages. Ready for publishing “immediately” upon the secrecy being lifted. Also notice Mr. Gonçalo Amaral has a good sense of humour, his already grilling some sardines. -
Yep.
The case was archived in August.
Any publication before that date would be breach of secrecy.
-
Breach of secrecy is relevant to the libel trial in one, crucial, respect. It annuls the principle to s/he who is willing no harm can come, which might otherwise have annulled the McCanns' action.
But I agree it is unlikely that will play a part in the final judgment.
It doesn't seem to appear in the list of proven / unproven facts. I guess we'll just have to wait to see what the judge makes of it all. And then wait for any appeal process, which could then go on for another decade or more.
I can only hope that whatever has happened to this little girl will be discovered way before this defamation saga comes to an end.
-
Isn't it all just that?
Well it looks to me like we have the following activities:
The judge said .............
The translation in to English of what the judge said says............
The Portuguese newspaper said the judge said then added a bit of its own opinion ..............
The translation into English of what the Portuguese newspaper said the judge said after the newspaper added a bit of its own opinion says ................
one finger one thumb keep moving 8(0(*
Tune in next week.
-
Well it looks to me like we have the following activities:
The judge said .............
The translation in to English of what the judge said says............
The Portuguese newspaper said the judge said then added a bit of its own opinion ..............
The translation into English of what the Portuguese newspaper said the judge said after the newspaper added a bit of its own opinion says ................
one finger one thumb keep moving 8(0(*
Tune in next week.
My friend, Punxsutawney Phil, was saying something similar just the other day...
-
It doesn't seem to appear in the list of proven / unproven facts. I guess we'll just have to wait to see what the judge makes of it all. And then wait for any appeal process, which could then go on for another decade or more.
I can only hope that whatever has happened to this little girl will be discovered way before this defamation saga comes to an end.
I very much doubt whether the McCanns or Amaral will have the stomach, or indeed the finances, to appeal.
-
IMO the accusation of hypocrisy against sceptics is because they constantly criticise the lack of detail which they demand should be shown in the fund accounts. They claim that they are entitled to know every tiny little expenditure - because donations were made by the public. But simultaneously they completely approve - and have no criticism whatsoever of Amaral's decision to give no account at all of how donations to his fund also made by the public, have been used.
How anyone can claim that stance is not hypocritical is a mystery to me.
Gonçalo Âmaral does not have any control over or access to the "fund" set up to pay the legal costs incurred by this case. Certain people hate this fund because it gave him the financial means to defend himself. It is obvious that the McCanns and their lawyers believed that, due to being financially strangled by the injunction, he would give in and settle out of court. That is why the McCanns witnesses were so feeble and useless, they never thought that they would have to see the inside of a court room.
-
Gonçalo Âmaral does not have any control over or access to the "fund" set up to pay the legal costs incurred by this case. Certain people hate this fund because it gave him the financial means to defend himself. It is obvious that the McCanns and their lawyers believed that, due to being financially strangled by the injunction, he would give in and settle out of court. That is why the McCanns witnesses were so feeble and useless, they never thought that they would have to see the inside of a court room.
Could that be why they always offer to settle any libel action?
-
I very much doubt whether the McCanns or Amaral will have the stomach, or indeed the finances, to appeal.
Snr Amaral has already made known that he is not in a position to take any further legal action while his assets remain under embargo. That situation will change dramatically if the current damages trial finds in his favour or finds against him but awards a nominal award. The possibilities then available to him will be many.
-
Gonçalo Âmaral does not have any control over or access to the "fund" set up to pay the legal costs incurred by this case. Certain people hate this fund because it gave him the financial means to defend himself. It is obvious that the McCanns and their lawyers believed that, due to being financially strangled by the injunction, he would give in and settle out of court. That is why the McCanns witnesses were so feeble and useless, they never thought that they would have to see the inside of a court room.
Absolutely Montclair. It's heartening that much of the donated to the fund has come directly from supporters in the UK. It seems that while individuals willing to donate to the Madeleine Fund dwindles, the fund to enable Amaral to defend himself goes from strength to strength.
-
Absolutely Montclair. It's heartening that much of the donated to the fund has come directly from supporters in the UK. It seems that while individuals willing to donate to the Madeleine Fund dwindles, the fund to enable Amaral to defend himself goes from strength to strength.
So why didn't his last but one Lawyer get paid?
-
There have been a few prosecutions in Portugal
- PJ inspector José Torrão (Setúbal) got an 8-month suspended sentence for leaking about the never-ending Freeport saga (but he was seemingly caught red-handed). I have no idea if the sentence was upheld on appeal or not.
Inspector da PJ condenado a 8 meses de pena suspensa
Data: 2007.07.18
Fonte: JN
Autor: Redacção
Jornalistas Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira foram absolvidos. O ex-inspector da PJ José Torrão foi ontem condenado a oito meses de pena suspensa por violação de segredo de justiça, no âmbito do caso Freeport . A pena foi suspensa por 18 meses, mediante o compromisso de entregar cinco mil euros à Quercus. Os dois jornalistas envolvidos no processo, Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira, foram absolvidos do mesmo crime, de acordo com a Lusa. A defesa do ex-inspector da PJ de Setúbal anunciou que vai decorrer da sentença para o Tribunal da Relação de Lisboa.
http://www.tretas.org/Freeport/Artigos
- There was another prosecution involving quite a few PJ officers in the Casa Pia affair, IIRC. I'll add a link when I find one.
- There also seem to be noises about cracking down on it more generally, but it might just be... noise.
http://pesquisa.rtp.pt/default.aspx?relid=19230&ind=rtpnoticias
- A general article by Henrique Monteiro (11 Jan 2014) on the subject, discussing various options ETA I modified my original wording to read: from the perspective of journalists. Unfortunately, I can only get the gist of it as his prose is somewhat above that of CdaM.
A general summary of what I think I understand (with apologies if I've got some of it wrong and the points don't necessarily follow the ones made in the article):
The gripe seems to be that judicial secrecy is in theory so all-encompassing that journalists have a hard time doing their job. Some end up as arguidos and are not even sure what they've done wrong. Others often completely ignore it, which ironically sometimes leads to cases of injustice. (He mentions the "British example" early on - by which I presume he means the Leveson inquiry.)
One proposal on the table appears to be recorded conversations between journalists and their sources... (I can't see that ever happening.)
His view seems to be that judicial secrecy should be the exception rather than the norm, and journalists should be given more access to information, with clearer guidelines as to the boundaries, as well as being given justified reasons why some cases may need to be off limits (I'm not sure if he means during the investigation phase or whether he means the entire judicial process). If journalists are told to shut up, then all journalists must respect it and clear sanctions should be imposed if it is broken.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/contra-o-segredo-de-justica-e-um-aplauso-a-pgr=f850074
Thanks for that research, Carana. I was beginning to wonder if it was one of those laws on the Statute Books which was more honoured in the breach than in the observance.
-
So why didn't his last but one Lawyer get paid?
He wasn't ? Do tell ?
-
He wasn't ? Do tell ?
June 17, 2014
“I was caught by surprise. Gonçalo Amaral called me at 22h00 on Sunday warning me that he was going to dismiss my services in the McCann process. He didn’t say why”, lawyer Santos de Oliveira, who had prepared closing arguments to be presented on Monday, told DN yesterday. Due to Amaral’s decision, yesterday’s session was only used to schedule closing arguments for July.
“What happened was more than bizarre. My fees have not been paid in full yet. I have only received part of it”, Santos de Oliveira mentioned, refusing to comment if Gonçalo Amaral’s eventual financial difficulties lie behind the former Judiciary Police inspector’s decision to dismiss his defence.
In the defamation trial, the McCanns claim the payment of 1.2 million euro from Gonçalo Amaral, the author of Maddie: A Verdade da Mentira.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic22982.html#p298483
-
Thanks, Anna.
-
June 17, 2014
“I was caught by surprise. Gonçalo Amaral called me at 22h00 on Sunday warning me that he was going to dismiss my services in the McCann process. He didn’t say why”, lawyer Santos de Oliveira, who had prepared closing arguments to be presented on Monday, told DN yesterday. Due to Amaral’s decision, yesterday’s session was only used to schedule closing arguments for July.
“What happened was more than bizarre. My fees have not been paid in full yet. I have only received part of it”, Santos de Oliveira mentioned, refusing to comment if Gonçalo Amaral’s eventual financial difficulties lie behind the former Judiciary Police inspector’s decision to dismiss his defence.
In the defamation trial, the McCanns claim the payment of 1.2 million euro from Gonçalo Amaral, the author of Maddie: A Verdade da Mentira.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic22982.html#p298483
So Sr Santos de Oliveira said in June 2014 he had received part of his fee. Do we have evidence that Dr Amaral has not paid the balance in the intervening seven months?
-
So Sr Santos de Oliveira said in June 2014 he had received part of his fee. Do we have evidence that Dr Amaral has not paid the balance in the intervening seven months?
No I do not, I don't know about you, Alice.
Did Amaral not have a fund, back then to pay his legal fees in full?
-
June 17, 2014
“I was caught by surprise. Gonçalo Amaral called me at 22h00 on Sunday warning me that he was going to dismiss my services in the McCann process. He didn’t say why”, lawyer Santos de Oliveira, who had prepared closing arguments to be presented on Monday, told DN yesterday. Due to Amaral’s decision, yesterday’s session was only used to schedule closing arguments for July.
“What happened was more than bizarre. My fees have not been paid in full yet. I have only received part of it”, Santos de Oliveira mentioned, refusing to comment if Gonçalo Amaral’s eventual financial difficulties lie behind the former Judiciary Police inspector’s decision to dismiss his defence.
In the defamation trial, the McCanns claim the payment of 1.2 million euro from Gonçalo Amaral, the author of Maddie: A Verdade da Mentira.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic22982.html#p298483
Thank you Anna. I notice the lawyer says 'yet' so am I right in assuming that we don't know whether it was eventually paid ?
-
So Sr Santos de Oliveira said in June 2014 he had received part of his fee. Do we have evidence that Dr Amaral has not paid the balance in the intervening seven months?
Great minds and all that !!!
-
So Sr Santos de Oliveira said in June 2014 he had received part of his fee. Do we have evidence that Dr Amaral has not paid the balance in the intervening seven months?
It would have been polite to pay his lawyer before he fired him. But perhaps he didn't have the money.
-
Thank you Anna. I notice the lawyer says 'yet' so am I right in assuming that we don't know whether it was eventually paid ?
That is true, Faith. We don't know, but I will see what I can find out.
-
It would have been polite to pay his lawyer before he fired him. But perhaps he didn't have the money.
Or was unable to reach the people who administer the fund before he made his decision ?
-
Or was unable to reach the people who administer the fund before he made his decision ?
A law unto himself then. Why discuss it with anyone, least of all those doing the work or paying the bills. How very ill mannered.
-
Had Sr Santos de Oliveira submitted an invoice for all his fees ?
Did Dr Amaral have a legitimate reason for withholding funds?
Does anyone know with any degree of certainty?
All we can say with certainty is: as of June 2014 Dr Amaral had paid part of of his legal fees.
The rest is all speculation.
-
Thank you Anna. I notice the lawyer says 'yet' so am I right in assuming that we don't know whether it was eventually paid ?
Are they not normally paid in advance? The next session was in July.
-
A law unto himself then. Why discuss it with anyone, least of all those doing the work or paying the bills. How very ill mannered.
I wonder what happened to the almost €8,000 in his fund?
Seems Santos de Oliveira, got the same treatment as Cabrita did.
-
I wonder what happened to the almost €8,000 in his fund?
Seems Santos de Oliveira, got the same treatment as Cabrita did.
Spent some on slow horses and fast women then just wasted the rest I guess 8(>((
He's a real dodgy dude that one.
-
Spent some on slow horses and fast women then just wasted the rest I guess 8(>((
He's a real dodgy dude that one.
Oh the dodgiest !! @)(++(*
-
Spent some on slow horses and fast women then just wasted the rest I guess 8(>((
He's a real dodgy dude that one.
Nah! €2,000 was paid to Cabrita for outstanding fees. I wonder why Cabrita wrote a letter to the courts saying that he renounced to all the powers of attorney from Amaral.
-
There have been a few prosecutions in Portugal
- PJ inspector José Torrão (Setúbal) got an 8-month suspended sentence for leaking about the never-ending Freeport saga (but he was seemingly caught red-handed). I have no idea if the sentence was upheld on appeal or not.
Inspector da PJ condenado a 8 meses de pena suspensa
Data: 2007.07.18
Fonte: JN
Autor: Redacção
Jornalistas Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira foram absolvidos. O ex-inspector da PJ José Torrão foi ontem condenado a oito meses de pena suspensa por violação de segredo de justiça, no âmbito do caso Freeport . A pena foi suspensa por 18 meses, mediante o compromisso de entregar cinco mil euros à Quercus. Os dois jornalistas envolvidos no processo, Inês Serra Lopes e Francisco Teixeira, foram absolvidos do mesmo crime, de acordo com a Lusa. A defesa do ex-inspector da PJ de Setúbal anunciou que vai decorrer da sentença para o Tribunal da Relação de Lisboa.
http://www.tretas.org/Freeport/Artigos
- There was another prosecution involving quite a few PJ officers in the Casa Pia affair, IIRC. I'll add a link when I find one.
- There also seem to be noises about cracking down on it more generally, but it might just be... noise.
http://pesquisa.rtp.pt/default.aspx?relid=19230&ind=rtpnoticias
- A general article by Henrique Monteiro (11 Jan 2014) on the subject, discussing various options ETA I modified my original wording to read: from the perspective of journalists. Unfortunately, I can only get the gist of it as his prose is somewhat above that of CdaM.
A general summary of what I think I understand (with apologies if I've got some of it wrong and the points don't necessarily follow the ones made in the article):
The gripe seems to be that judicial secrecy is in theory so all-encompassing that journalists have a hard time doing their job. Some end up as arguidos and are not even sure what they've done wrong. Others often completely ignore it, which ironically sometimes leads to cases of injustice. (He mentions the "British example" early on - by which I presume he means the Leveson inquiry.)
One proposal on the table appears to be recorded conversations between journalists and their sources... (I can't see that ever happening.)
His view seems to be that judicial secrecy should be the exception rather than the norm, and journalists should be given more access to information, with clearer guidelines as to the boundaries, as well as being given justified reasons why some cases may need to be off limits (I'm not sure if he means during the investigation phase or whether he means the entire judicial process). If journalists are told to shut up, then all journalists must respect it and clear sanctions should be imposed if it is broken.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/contra-o-segredo-de-justica-e-um-aplauso-a-pgr=f850074
Nice bit of research . Thanks Carana
-
Can we now please try and stay close to topic....I know, I strayed too.
-
Another of Amaral's pal up in court at last. The one that used to be stuck to his side when in court, till he was found to be another PJ crook. Two of them in this scam.
Pereira Cistovao comes to court bar
Antena 1
Feb 05, 2015 24:38
The trial of former leader of the Sporting Paulo Pereira Cristovao is scheduled for April 8, starting at 9:30 am.
The same will take place in the first section of the Lisbon criminal district.
The defendants in this case are Paulo Pereira Cristovao and Victor Viegas.
The first was vice president of the Alvalade club between March 26, 2011 and June 24, 2012.
Victor Viegas ex PJ -inspector in May 2011 set up a company at the request of Pereira Cristovao in order to provide services to the Sporting including advice on personal and social life of Leo players.
In the indictment it is stated that Paulo Pereira Cristovao had a list with tax identification number , NIB, income, real estate ownership and referees furniture, assistant referees, league observers and respective spouses.
Joseph Cardinal assistant referee that was not the Pereira Cristovao of satisfaction was named to the Sporting-Marítimo of Portugal Cup in 2011 and the old white green leader will have chalked a plan by which would deposit by a stranger in Funchal, in the referee's bank account a certain amount of money. Then would deliver the respective deposit slip to the police authorities thus creating suspicion and manufacturing practice material evidence of corruption crimes by the assistant referee Joseph Cardinal and someone Maritime.
two thousand euros were deposited at Cardinal and Paulo Pereira Cristovao account denounced the alleged corruption to the PJ.
According to what Antena 1 found Pereira Christopher is accused of a serious fraud crime, a crime of money laundering, two counts of embezzlement, an illegitimate access to computer crime through database and one wanton crime by slanderous denunciation.
In addition to the "Cardinal case," Paulo Pereira Cristovao is also accused of having improperly seized 57 thousand euros that used for personal purposes. In instructory decision is said that the abundance of existing evidence in the record supports the facts narrated in the indictment.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?article=802547&tm=45&layout=158&visual=49
-
Another of Amaral's pal up in court at last. The one that used to be stuck to his side when in court, till he was found to be another PJ crook. Two of them in this scam.
Pereira Cistovao comes to court bar
Antena 1
Feb 05, 2015 24:38
The trial of former leader of the Sporting Paulo Pereira Cristovao is scheduled for April 8, starting at 9:30 am.
The same will take place in the first section of the Lisbon criminal district.
The defendants in this case are Paulo Pereira Cristovao and Victor Viegas.
The first was vice president of the Alvalade club between March 26, 2011 and June 24, 2012.
Victor Viegas ex PJ -inspector in May 2011 set up a company at the request of Pereira Cristovao in order to provide services to the Sporting including advice on personal and social life of Leo players.
In the indictment it is stated that Paulo Pereira Cristovao had a list with tax identification number , NIB, income, real estate ownership and referees furniture, assistant referees, league observers and respective spouses.
Joseph Cardinal assistant referee that was not the Pereira Cristovao of satisfaction was named to the Sporting-Marítimo of Portugal Cup in 2011 and the old white green leader will have chalked a plan by which would deposit by a stranger in Funchal, in the referee's bank account a certain amount of money. Then would deliver the respective deposit slip to the police authorities thus creating suspicion and manufacturing practice material evidence of corruption crimes by the assistant referee Joseph Cardinal and someone Maritime.
two thousand euros were deposited at Cardinal and Paulo Pereira Cristovao account denounced the alleged corruption to the PJ.
According to what Antena 1 found Pereira Christopher is accused of a serious fraud crime, a crime of money laundering, two counts of embezzlement, an illegitimate access to computer crime through database and one wanton crime by slanderous denunciation.
In addition to the "Cardinal case," Paulo Pereira Cristovao is also accused of having improperly seized 57 thousand euros that used for personal purposes. In instructory decision is said that the abundance of existing evidence in the record supports the facts narrated in the indictment.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?article=802547&tm=45&layout=158&visual=49
Shades of the Brighton Police Force in the late 1950s.
Now why is Brighton ringing bells in my head?. Oh I remember now!
-
Another of Amaral's pal up in court at last. The one that used to be stuck to his side when in court, till he was found to be another PJ crook. Two of them in this scam.
Pereira Cistovao comes to court bar
Antena 1
Feb 05, 2015 24:38
The trial of former leader of the Sporting Paulo Pereira Cristovao is scheduled for April 8, starting at 9:30 am.
The same will take place in the first section of the Lisbon criminal district.
The defendants in this case are Paulo Pereira Cristovao and Victor Viegas.
The first was vice president of the Alvalade club between March 26, 2011 and June 24, 2012.
Victor Viegas ex PJ -inspector in May 2011 set up a company at the request of Pereira Cristovao in order to provide services to the Sporting including advice on personal and social life of Leo players.
In the indictment it is stated that Paulo Pereira Cristovao had a list with tax identification number , NIB, income, real estate ownership and referees furniture, assistant referees, league observers and respective spouses.
Joseph Cardinal assistant referee that was not the Pereira Cristovao of satisfaction was named to the Sporting-Marítimo of Portugal Cup in 2011 and the old white green leader will have chalked a plan by which would deposit by a stranger in Funchal, in the referee's bank account a certain amount of money. Then would deliver the respective deposit slip to the police authorities thus creating suspicion and manufacturing practice material evidence of corruption crimes by the assistant referee Joseph Cardinal and someone Maritime.
two thousand euros were deposited at Cardinal and Paulo Pereira Cristovao account denounced the alleged corruption to the PJ.
According to what Antena 1 found Pereira Christopher is accused of a serious fraud crime, a crime of money laundering, two counts of embezzlement, an illegitimate access to computer crime through database and one wanton crime by slanderous denunciation.
In addition to the "Cardinal case," Paulo Pereira Cristovao is also accused of having improperly seized 57 thousand euros that used for personal purposes. In instructory decision is said that the abundance of existing evidence in the record supports the facts narrated in the indictment.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?article=802547&tm=45&layout=158&visual=49
Careful DCI you are beginning to look rather desperate. That Cristovao is on trial impacts on Amaral how ? Probably the same as Halligen doing time for fraud does on the McCanns.
-
Interesting article (from Jan 2014), reporting that 83 criminal investigations into violations of judicial secrecy were opened into cases to which judicial secrecy applied in 2011-2012. (The totality of cases under judicial secrecy during that period was 6,696).
Most of the violations concerned cases of drug trafficking (475 cases), child sex abuse (189) and domestic violence (102). Out of those, 49 were archived, 9 led to charges and 25 were still ongoing (at the time of the article).
The types of violations at "critical moments" were related to searches (15), judicial interrogations (9), "comunicados de imprensa" (press releases doesn't sound right, information published by the press?) (6), and "escutas" (listening - phone tapping? Other illicit means of interception?) (5). Violations at unspecified "other moments" (40) are also on the list.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?article=708687&tm=8&layout=121&visual=49
The nature of the cases of violation under investigation at critical moments makes sense of the need for secrecy in certain circumstances. I expect that there will be lessons learned in terms of the live media coverage of the recent hostage cases in Sydney and France, for example, and the tense situation over elite forces zooming in on the nutjob in southern France, where seemingly the police had to rely on the voluntary cooperation of the media. (I wonder where Sargento's case over allegedly tipping off the media over the presumed serial rapist saga is at?)
Amaral clearly did breach judicial secrecy on at least two occasions: disclosing information to the publishing industry prior to the secrecy being lifted, and his rant to his wife's friend who also happened to be a journalist (which got him booted off the case).
It's not clear whether he was also directly leaking to the media on other occasions, but the constant drip of half-baked leaks, nearly all designed to smear the McCanns and Murat, happened under his watch. One, about the crying episode, leaked under Rebelo, but it's not clear when the information was leaked - it could have been leaked earlier and kept for a rainy day, e.g, when the McCanns were in Brussels. It's quite possible that those drip leaks are now timed-out for criminal inquiry purposes... or were quietly dealt with internally.
IMO, although, as it happens, they couldn't be described as being at "critical" moments of the investigation (as in forewarning of a potential dawn raid), they nonetheless constituted a violation of personal rights including irrelevant personal information (e.g., Kate's diary), and a potential obstruction of justice in terms of presumed innocence and influence on public opinion prior to any potential trial involving a jury.
I'm not convinced that all of the "leaks" flew out of PJ windows for free, either... which raises a different issue.
-
Not me fruit cake.
Cristoavo was Amarals heavy, till he was caught on the fiddle. He was also involved in the Cipriano case.
That's nearly all those PJ involved in Madeliene's case been had for fraud and other crimes. Amaral being the worst!
Of course they are all innocent, unless called McCann.
-
Not me fruit cake.
Cristoavo was Amarals heavy, till he was caught on the fiddle. He was also involved in the Cipriano case.
That's nearly all those PJ involved in Madeliene's case been had for fraud and other crimes. Amaral being the worst!
Of course they are all innocent, unless called McCann.
On the other hand, almost all the PIs employed by the McCanns have been officially investigated or imprisoned at some point. So where does that get us ?
-
If The Portuguese Judiciary don't pursue Amaral for breaching The Secrecy Laws then the whole thing will be a mockery. Who is likely to get prosecuted in future if they don't? Portugal might just as well give it up. And then any idiot who works on a case can write a book based on insider knowledge.
Try that one for size.
-
If The Portuguese Judiciary don't pursue Amaral for breaching The Secrecy Laws then the whole thing will be a mockery. Who is likely to get prosecuted in future if they don't? Portugal might just as well give it up. And then any idiot who works on a case can write a book based on insider knowledge.
Try that one for size.
Is there any reason why any of us should care, one way or the other?
-
If The Portuguese Judiciary don't pursue Amaral for breaching The Secrecy Laws then the whole thing will be a mockery. Who is likely to get prosecuted in future if they don't? Portugal might just as well give it up. And then any idiot who works on a case can write a book based on insider knowledge.
Try that one for size.
It's getting more apparent Eleanor that you supporters don't care what Amaral is found guilty of, just as long as he is found guilty of SOMETHING.
The Portuguese Judiciary have had almost seven years to bring a case against Amaral for breaching the secrecy laws and seem in no way interested in doing so and, to be honest, up until it became apparent that it was unlikely the McCanns were going to come out of the damages trial greatly enriched it didn't seem the supporters had much interest in the alleged breach either.
-
Is there any reason why any of us should care, one way or the other?
I care. The Law is The Law, and should most certainly apply to those who are employed to uphold The Law.
-
It's getting more apparent Eleanor that you supporters don't care what Amaral is found guilty of, just as long as he is found guilty of SOMETHING.
The Portuguese Judiciary have had almost seven years to bring a case against Amaral for breaching the secrecy laws and seem in no way interested in doing so and, to be honest, up until it became apparent that it was unlikely the McCanns were going to come out of the damages trial greatly enriched it didn't seem the supporters had much interest in the alleged breach either.
That's it in a nutshell.
Anything to attack Amaral, by the McCann's and their backers.
-
If The Portuguese Judiciary don't pursue Amaral for breaching The Secrecy Laws then the whole thing will be a mockery. Who is likely to get prosecuted in future if they don't? Portugal might just as well give it up. And then any idiot who works on a case can write a book based on insider knowledge.
Try that one for size.
I think they will Eleanor, after the verdict. I still believe the first report that came out, then was suddenly whooshed.
-
I think they will Eleanor, after the verdict. I still believe the first report that came out, then was suddenly whooshed.
why would the judiciary wait until after the verdict of a civil case ? If they have enough evidence, and the inclination, to take the case to court surely sooner is better than later. What benefit would be had by waiting ?
-
I care. The Law is The Law, and should most certainly apply to those who are employed to uphold The Law.
As I don't live in or visit Portugal, how they conduct their internal affairs is of no concern to me, any more than for example, are those of America or Venezuela.
-
why would the judiciary wait until after the verdict of a civil case ? If they have enough evidence, and the inclination, to take the case to court surely sooner is better than later. What benefit would be had by waiting ?
It would be a separate case. I thought you would know how the courts work.
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
-
I think they will Eleanor, after the verdict. I still believe the first report that came out, then was suddenly whooshed.
Well, I hope they do. Amaral did most definitely break The Secrecy Laws. And we didn't need a Judge to tell us that. This one has been in the air since his book was first released.
Why haven't they done it sooner? Amaral is up to his neck in a Civil Case, and breaking The Law is a Criminal Case.
They are still trying to establish if he made up the book, Like how much came from The Files and how much was in his imagination. But since he is insisting that it all came from The Investigation then he is condemning himself.
Lose Lose, as far as I can see.
-
I think they will Eleanor, after the verdict. I still believe the first report that came out, then was suddenly whooshed.
Personally, I doubt it... if a criminal prosecution wasn't launched in 2007 concerning the investigation, or 2008 concerning the book, then I find it somewhat unlikely that one would suddenly be launched now (2015).
On a more constructive note, there does seem to be more discussion about how to deal with breaches / possibly even moves towards more transparency in the system these days... even if it only serves future cases.
-
Personally, I doubt it... if a criminal prosecution wasn't launched in 2007 concerning the investigation, or 2008 concerning the book, then I find it somewhat unlikely that one would suddenly be launched now (2015).
On a more constructive note, there does seem to be more discussion about how to deal with breaches / possibly even moves towards more transparency in the system these days... even if it only serves future cases.
I don't Carana.
This is the first judge on the case that has picked up on the "secrecy" breach.
-
As I don't live in or visit Portugal, how they conduct their internal affairs is of no concern to me, any more than for example, are those of America or Venezuela.
I wonder if you are a contributor to forums or other on-line outlets concerning the internal affairs of the USA or Venezuela.
You do appear to have a certain predilection for posting regarding all things McCann and Portugal ... but nice try at deflection though.
Were the Drs McCann suspected to be in breach of any laws either Portuguese or British there would be a hue and cry about it and I am sure you would have an opinion then.
Did you contribute at all to the threads discussing whether or not they should be charged for alleged neglect?
Carana has provided evidence that the Judicial Secrecy Laws of Portugal are indeed taken very seriously and enforced.
If a former public servant is suspected of having breached the law of the land why should he exempt from the scrutiny which applies to other Portuguese citizens?
Personally, I would not give two hoots as you profess not to, but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and perhaps it is time for some of the conundrums associated with Madeleine McCann's case to be unravelled, one of which is surely the drip feed of poisonous misinformation designed to denigrate her parents and implicate them in a heinous crime.
-
I don't Carana.
This is the first judge on the case that has picked up on the "secrecy" breach.
Did he make it all up, or did he use the information from the investigation? That is the crux of the matter. Amaral cannot have it both ways.
Personally, I think he did a bit of both. And there is not much doubt that some of his information came from after he was sacked. But using any information from The Investigation was a Breach of The Secrecy Laws.
-
Did he make it all up, or did he use the information from the investigation? That is the crux of the matter. Amaral cannot have it both ways.
Personally, I think he did a bit of both. And there is not much doubt that some of his information came from after he was sacked. But using any information from The Investigation was a Breach of The Secrecy Laws.
There's no doubt he used info from the investigation.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
Investigation file photos used in his book.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK.htm
-
There's no doubt he used info from the investigation.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
I would say so. And then, whatever didn't fit the evidence, he made up. So he really ought to lose on both counts.
I would like to think that he is an abomination, but in fact he is just a prideful fool. He thought he was all powerful, and consequently proceeded to destroy himself.
-
It would be a separate case. I thought you would know how the courts work.
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
As I have already pointed out the 'which is a violation of the secrecy of justice' is not a quote from the judge but I assume 'a source close to the process' ie Isabel Duarte. Of course we also know that the Lusa article has now been discredited.
-
I don't Carana.
This is the first judge on the case that has picked up on the "secrecy" breach.
She didn't, as you say, pick up on the secrecy breach. She asseterf that the book dame from the investigation file as Amaral had claimed.
It is a point FOR Amaral, not against, no matter how you and your cohorts try to spin it
-
She didn't, as you say, pick up on the secrecy breach. She asseterf that the book dame from the investigation file as Amaral had claimed.
It is a point FOR Amaral, not against, no matter how you and your cohorts try to spin it
Exactly, he shouldn't have used the investigation files.
First report from CM newspaper
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
-
Did he make it all up, or did he use the information from the investigation? That is the crux of the matter. Amaral cannot have it both ways.
Personally, I think he did a bit of both. And there is not much doubt that some of his information came from after he was sacked. But using any information from The Investigation was a Breach of The Secrecy Laws.
In one of his numerous interviews, he said that he wrote it all "from memory". Does that change anything?
Speaking to me during the court lunch-break on Thursday, however, Amaral remained defiantly on the offensive. With a female supporter acting as interpreter, he said he wrote his 200-page book in just two months, fuelled by endless cigarettes at his home on the Algarve.
He didn't work from police documents or diaries, but purely from memory, he told me, tapping his head for emphasis. And he used a personal computer kept disconnected from the internet for 'security' reasons.
From:
She's terrifyingly thin, he's boiling with rage: So why HAVE the McCanns put themselves on trial? Daily Mail
By DAVID JONES
Last updated at 8:16 PM on 15th January 2010
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id299.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243596/Shes-terrifyingly-hes-boiling-rage-So-HAVE-McCanns-trial.html
-
Memory of The Investigation. Same difference in my book. He obviously got the information from somewhere. Information that only the investigation was party to. Unless he made it all up.
-
In one of his numerous interviews, he said that he wrote it all "from memory". Does that change anything?
Speaking to me during the court lunch-break on Thursday, however, Amaral remained defiantly on the offensive. With a female supporter acting as interpreter, he said he wrote his 200-page book in just two months, fuelled by endless cigarettes at his home on the Algarve.
He didn't work from police documents or diaries, but purely from memory, he told me, tapping his head for emphasis. And he used a personal computer kept disconnected from the internet for 'security' reasons.
From:
She's terrifyingly thin, he's boiling with rage: So why HAVE the McCanns put themselves on trial? Daily Mail
By DAVID JONES
Last updated at 8:16 PM on 15th January 2010
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id299.html (http://www.mccannfiles.com/id299.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243596/Shes-terrifyingly-hes-boiling-rage-So-HAVE-McCanns-trial.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243596/Shes-terrifyingly-hes-boiling-rage-So-HAVE-McCanns-trial.html)
No it changes nothing. How can you print file photos from memory?
-
Memory of The Investigation. Same difference in my book. He obviously got the information from somewhere. Information that only the investigation was party to. Unless he made it all up.
Not quite all of it. But quite a lot ...
-
No it changes nothing. How can you print file photos from memory?
Good point, I'd forgotten about that little detail.
-
Good point, I'd forgotten about that little detail.
Oh My. I wonder how he got those on his computer? That is such colossal cheek. He used File Photos in his Book?
-
Exactly, he shouldn't have used the investigation files.
First report from CM newspaper
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
And Tanner shouldn't have spoken about the contents of her statement when appearing on Panorama while the investigation was still under judicial secrecy, but they did and it doesn't look like there will be any sanction for either breach but hey, if it brings you comfort......!!!!
-
Oh My. I wonder how he got those on his computer? That is such colossal cheek. He used File Photos in his Book?
Yep as shown here, Eleanor.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK.htm
-
In one of his numerous interviews, he said that he wrote it all "from memory". Does that change anything?
Speaking to me during the court lunch-break on Thursday, however, Amaral remained defiantly on the offensive. With a female supporter acting as interpreter, he said he wrote his 200-page book in just two months, fuelled by endless cigarettes at his home on the Algarve.
He didn't work from police documents or diaries, but purely from memory, he told me, tapping his head for emphasis. And he used a personal computer kept disconnected from the internet for 'security' reasons.
From:
She's terrifyingly thin, he's boiling with rage: So why HAVE the McCanns put themselves on trial? Daily Mail
By DAVID JONES
Last updated at 8:16 PM on 15th January 2010
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id299.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243596/Shes-terrifyingly-hes-boiling-rage-So-HAVE-McCanns-trial.html
Nope. Amaral could have written from memory what is in the files.
-
No it changes nothing. How can you print file photos from memory?
Were they file photos or drawings of file photographs ? As far as I am aware there is not one original photograph.
-
Yep as shown here, Eleanor.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK.htm
As I thought.
-
Memory of The Investigation. Same difference in my book. He obviously got the information from somewhere. Information that only the investigation was party to. Unless he made it all up.
Gonçalo Amaral was the co-ordinator of the investigator until October 2007. He would have had first hand knowledge of the case since all the documents went through his office.
-
Yep as shown here, Eleanor.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK.htm
I am gobsmacked, yet again. He actually made money from Judicial Documents. Talk about brass neck. That is theft.
-
Gonçalo Amaral was the co-ordinator of the investigator until October 2007. He would have had first hand knowledge of the case since all the documents went through his office.
So when did he help himself to Official File Photos? The copies of which are in his book.
-
I am gobsmacked, yet again. He actually made money from Judicial Documents. Talk about brass neck. That is theft.
No Eleanor, those are drawings. Retrieving something from one's memory and replicating it in a drawing is not, as far as I am aware, theft. Of course you may know otherwise ?
-
Were they file photos or drawings of file photographs ? As far as I am aware there is not one original photograph.
The "drawings" are faithful to the photos. A Photoshop filter can do that.
-
The "drawings" are faithful to the photos. A Photoshop filter can do that.
Amaral had seen those photographs hundreds, if not thousands of times. I'm sure they wouldn't have been that difficult or him to replicate.
-
Amaral had seen those photographs hundreds, if not thousands of times. I'm sure they wouldn't have been that difficult or him to replicate.
If so, he must also be an accomplished artist, among his many talents.
-
Yep as shown here, Eleanor.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK.htm
Did he log into the PJ systems, to acquire these photos and files, do you think?
-
Amaral had seen those photographs hundreds, if not thousands of times. I'm sure they wouldn't have been that difficult or him to replicate.
Yes replicated them before the files were released.
Pull the other one! Best stop digging Faith.
-
Did he log into the PJ systems, to acquire these photos and files, do you think?
No idea Anna, but he probably didn't have to, wink, wink!
-
No idea Anna, but he probably didn't have to, wink, wink!
Thank you, DCI. I get the picture, now.
-
Gosh we do seem to be getting in a lather over that "dodgy dude".
"The Book" as I recall was published knocking on seven years ago and had been doing the rounds for about a year before it was temporarily banned.
Had someone taken exception to the "dodgy dude" breaking secrecy laws with the book they sure are slow out of the blocks if they intend to do owt about it. Mind you it is Portugal I suppose 8(0(*
-
Gosh we do seem to be getting in a lather over that "dodgy dude".
"The Book" as I recall was published knocking on seven years ago and had been doing the rounds for about a year before it was temporarily banned.
Had someone taken exception to the "dodgy dude" breaking secrecy laws with the book they sure are slow out of the blocks if they intend to do owt about it. Mind you it is Portugal I suppose 8(0(*
That is the eternal problem, Alice. It is Portugal.
-
Yes replicated them before the files were released.
Pull the other one! Best stop digging Faith.
Not digging DCI because it matters not one jot how the drawings were produced, or indeed whether Amaral broke judicial secrecy laws because it's obvious he isn't going to be sanctioned for the breach no matter how appalled a group of Internet apologists are.
Of course it's just a deflection from the main event, the judge's ruling which, if the available signs are anything to go by, will undoubtedly be a Pyrrhic victory if it's any kind of victory at all.
-
We shall have to wait and see.
Oh God, did I really write that?
-
Not digging DCI because it matters not one jot how the drawings were produced, or indeed whether Amaral broke judicial secrecy laws because it's obvious he isn't going to be sanctioned for the breach no matter how appalled a group of Internet apologists are.
Of course it's just a deflection from the main event, the judge's ruling which, if the available signs are anything to go by, will undoubtedly be a Pyrrhic victory if it's any kind of victory at all.
They're obsessed with the fellow. %£&)**#
It's just a book, Eleanor. One book. And that's how they see it in Portugal.
The Portuguese can't be blamed for how people responded to that book. Things could have been done much differently.
-
Thank you, DCI. I get the picture, now.
You are welcome Anna.
Just realised, he used the investigation files in the video too. Unless he drew the pictures of Murat and the efits.
Along with the dog video's.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARAL_DOC_13_04_09.htm
-
They're obsessed with the fellow. %£&)**#
It's just a book, Eleanor. One book. And that's how they see it in Portugal.
No more obsessed than you and others with The McCanns.
-
No more obsessed than you and others with The McCanns.
No, not them personally. With the mystery.
-
You are welcome Anna.
Just realised, he used the investigation files in the video too. Unless he drew the pictures of Murat and the efits.
Along with the dog video's.
Well that would be really, clever &%&£(+
-
You are welcome Anna.
Just realised, he used the investigation files in the video too. Unless he drew the pictures of Murat and the efits.
Along with the dog video's.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARAL_DOC_13_04_09.htm
That was made after the case was archived though?
-
Maybe you should be asking why the publishers didn't just wait a few days/weeks before publishing if there was an issue with secrecy?
Maybe they thought there wasn't? &%+((£
They don't publish without taking legal advice first. Not even in Portugal!
-
Maybe you should be asking why the publishers didn't just wait a few days/weeks before publishing if there was an issue with secrecy?
Maybe they thought there wasn't? &%+((£
They don't publish without taking legal advice first. Not even in Portugal!
They are all in on the conspiracy oops I meant in cahoots.
-
Well that would be really, clever &%&£(+
Not if they'd already been released.
-
Not if they'd already been released.
If you read back, faith, you will see that I was responding to the suggestion of drawing, of e fits and dog videos
-
They are all in on the conspiracy oops I meant in cahoots.
?{)(** They must be.
-
If you read back, faith, you will see that I was responding to the suggestion of drawing, of e fits and dog videos
This is what you responded to Anna from DCI.
"You are welcome Anna.
Just realised, he used the investigation files in the video too. Unless he drew the pictures of Murat and the efits.
Along with the dog video's."
All the items mentioned above would have been in the public domain by the time the video was made, so no, it wouldn't have been very clever.
-
Jolly good effort, all round. I do so love a good, On Topic debate. Well done you all.
-
This is what you responded to Anna from DCI.
"You are welcome Anna.
Just realised, he used the investigation files in the video too. Unless he drew the pictures of Murat and the efits.
Along with the dog video's."
All the items mentioned above would have been in the public domain by the time the video was made, so no, it wouldn't have been very clever.
If he had done(as bold) I think that it would have been very clever, but in reality, impossible.
-
Aarghhhhhh!
3 days after the files were closed Amaral had a book in the public domain - launch - whatever.
I like the book. It is as equally full of facts and insight as it is crap. It is a movie fantasy, only in old fashioned print.
Amaral's book has detailed drawings of 5A that accurately match the incident scene photos. 3 days after the files were closed.
Amaral describes the crime scene in detail, 3 days after the files were closed.
Amaral fairly accurately discloses the case summary that closes the file, 3 days after the files were closed.
Were there leaks? Of course there were!
Was Amaral in breach?
If breach would be a criminal offence, for which if anyone gave a toss, Amaral would have been prosecuted years ago.
The evidence suggests Amaral was in breach, but no one cares a jot,
The illustrator for Amaral's book, the one who carefully redrew the crime scene photos, was he/she also in breach? Or just the person(s) who leaked the photos?
The text, that went to editor or publisher, plus probably many more. Was that in breach? The printer?
How about whoever leaked the final PJ report shelving the case? So that Amaral could copy the conclusion in his book, some 3 days later.
If you want to talk about leaks, please consider the following. SY had a helicopter over Luz with Andy Redwood aboard in June 2013. Sky News had a helicopter filming Andy Redwood's helicopter at the exact same time. Who leaked?
The UK newspapers were full all "3 places to be dug in Luz" in the middle of 2014. Who knows how they came up with the correct answer of 3, and wow, did the rumourmill get the wrong places.
Does any of this matter? Leaks have appeared from just about everyone and his dog about this case.
Does any of this stuff move the Maddie case one iota, one jot further forward?
If it does, please explain it to me in simple English. Then I might give a damn.
-
Aarghhhhhh!
3 days after the files were closed Amaral had a book in the public domain - launch - whatever.
I like the book. It is as equally full of facts and insight as it is crap. It is a movie fantasy, only in old fashioned print.
Amaral's book has detailed drawings of 5A that accurately match the incident scene photos. 3 days after the files were closed.
Amaral describes the crime scene in detail, 3 days after the files were closed.
Amaral fairly accurately discloses the case summary that closes the file, 3 days after the files were closed.
Were there leaks? Of course there were!
Was Amaral in breach?
If breach would be a criminal offence, for which if anyone gave a toss, Amaral would have been prosecuted years ago.
The evidence suggests Amaral was in breach, but no one cares a jot,
The illustrator for Amaral's book, the one who carefully redrew the crime scene photos, was he/she also in breach? Or just the person(s) who leaked the photos?
The text, that went to editor or publisher, plus probably many more. Was that in breach? The printer?
How about whoever leaked the final PJ report shelving the case? So that Amaral could copy the conclusion in his book, some 3 days later.
If you want to talk about leaks, please consider the following. SY had a helicopter over Luz with Andy Redwood aboard in June 2013. Sky News had a helicopter filming Andy Redwood's helicopter at the exact same time. Who leaked?
The UK newspapers were full all "3 places to be dug in Luz" in the middle of 2014. Who knows how they came up with the correct answer of 3, and wow, did the rumourmill get the wrong places.
Does any of this matter? Leaks have appeared from just about everyone and his dog about this case.
Does any of this stuff move the Maddie case one iota, one jot further forward?
If it does, please explain it to me in simple English. Then I might give a damn.
I dont think his drawings are very accurate Shining.
The first thing is that in the top image the cots are running at right angles to Madeleines bed. In the lower image they run parallel. Rather an important point to get wrong, dont you think?.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg)
-
I dont think his drawings are very accurate Shining.
The first thing is that in the top image the cots are running at right angles to Madeleines bed. In the lower image they run paralell. Rather an important point to get wrong, dont you think?.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg)
You may need to enlarge the image to see the anomolies clearly.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg)
And then secondly, it shows the way into the front door as straight in, seemingly from the road; with no indication of the long walled pathway that had to be walked at right angles to the front door... nor of the car park
And the third thing is the way that the rear patio doors are supposed to be accessed; once again from the wrong angle and no indication of steps up.
Then there are the anomolies in Kate and Gerrys bedroom
1) No door in from the sitting room into the bedroom. How do they enter?
2) The beds are the wrong way around and the head of the beds right up against the patio windows/ door with a bedside table alongside. That is completely wrong. Disinformation
3) The wardrobe is also, I think, on the wrong wall
I feel sure if I looked more closely I would find other errors .... and I dont find all the errors very satisfactory tbh.
All very sloppy
-
You may need to enlarge the image to see the anomolies clearly.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg)
And then secondly, it shows the way into the front door as straight in, seemingly from the road; with no indication of the long walled pathway that had to be walked at right angles to the front door... nor of the car park
And the third thing is the way that the rear patio doors are supposed to be accessed; once again from the wrong angle and no indication of steps up.
Then there are the anomolies in Kate and Gerrys bedroom
1) No door in from the sitting room into the bedroom. How do they enter?
2) The beds are the wrong way around and the head of the beds right up against the patio windows/ door with a bedside table alongside. That is completely wrong. Disinformation
3) The wardrobe is also, I think, on the wrong wall
I feel sure if I looked more closely I would find other errors .... and I dont find all the errors very satisfactory tbh.
All very sloppy
So you don't think he broke secrecy laws then.
-
So you don't think he broke secrecy laws then.
does it really matter
-
does it really matter
It's a valid point.
-
I wonder whether these Secrecy Laws hail back to the time before 'democracy'. If so it's about time they repealed the law IMO - even if one of the advantages is the 'protection' of the tourist trade The downside of such a law is that it is open to abuse and therefore unacceptable imo.
-
@ ShiningInLuz
It is almost certainly in technical breach of judicial secrecy.
The book is supposed to be based on the files up until his departure (some of it is, some of it isn't...). Numerous people involved in the publication process would have had access to the contents more than a month prior to secrecy being lifted. Some far earlier (editor, proof-reader, etc).
A Photoshop filter can easily transform photos into looking like sketched "drawings". My comment was tongue-in-cheek that someone actually sat down and drew them by hand.
As he obviously had access to those files while he was working on the investigation, it would have been easy enough to keep or obtain a copy when he left.
On your comments here:
"Amaral fairly accurately discloses the case summary that closes the file, 3 days after the files were closed."
"How about whoever leaked the final PJ report shelving the case? So that Amaral could copy the conclusion in his book, some 3 days later."
Where does he - accurately or otherwise - summarise the legal analysis or the final PJ report? What he presents as the police report and what some people to this day continue to flog as THE police report is the first interim report - the rambling ruminations signed by Tavares de Almeida written before he left.
If he had accurately summarised the legal report, i.e., that the initial suspicions were NOT confirmed, and that there was no evidence of a crime committed by any of the arguidos, he probably wouldn't have been sued.
That said, I find the technical breach over the book relatively unimportant in the scheme of things and deflects from the far greater issue of the leaky cauldron that was the entire investigation while under his command.
He may not have been personally involved leaking (whether all or any of the garbled half-myths), but if he hadn't approved of what was happening under his nose, he would have stopped it. He didn't.
-
I dont think his drawings are very accurate Shining.
The first thing is that in the top image the cots are running at right angles to Madeleines bed. In the lower image they run parallel. Rather an important point to get wrong, dont you think?.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg)
Sadie, the top one is from the book and corresponds to the photo.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg)
The bottom one with the text is based on whatever flew out of a PJ window into the waiting hands of the press one day. And, as you point out, numerous details are incorrect.
-
does it really matter
To most people I doubt it does; there are however those on here who think it is of the utmost import.
-
To most people I doubt it does; there are however those on here who think it is of the utmost import.
Hmmm.
I do find that there are more serious breaches than the fairly obvious one that he gave publishers access to restricted information prior to secrecy being lifted. (It does however raise questions as to what other breaches he may have been involved in...)
Aside from that, there is a question of TIMING.
His pre-publication round of interviews preceded the news of what the legal summary actually said and thus virtually eclipsed the conclusions that there was no evidence to indicate what had actually happened to her, nor any to support the idea that any of the arguidos had any involvement.
After so many half-baked leaks, the official conclusions should have helped to set the record straight in the press both for the McCanns and for Murat, and hopefully renewed the public's vigilance.
Instead, the opposite happened.
The wave of publicity for his book, prior to the publication, insisting that she was dead and the McCanns were involved, and that he 'knew so', was far more "juicy" than the the conclusions of the legal ruling relating to his tenure that his team had been barking up the wrong tree and didn't know how to climb back down.
-
Sadie, the top one is from the book and corresponds to the photo.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg)
The bottom one with the text is based on whatever flew out of a PJ window into the waiting hands of the press one day. And, as you point out, numerous details are incorrect.
Thanks Carana.
So which way round were the beds at the time of the abduction? I have seen them both ways in other images. We are assuming that the traditional way we see them is correct .... but is it?
Anyway to publish such innacurate pictures in a book [which is permanent and becomes "fact" in the eyes of the reader] is disgusting.
It changes reality .... and people can be wrongly judged on such disinformation
-
Thanks Carana.
So which way round were the beds at the time of the abduction? I have seen them both ways in other images. We are assuming that the traditional way we see them is correct .... but is it?
Anyway to publish such innacurate pictures in a book [which is permanent and becomes "fact" in the eyes of the reader] is disgusting.
It changes reality .... and people can be wrongly judged on such disinformation
The "drawings" in the book correspond to the photos in the files (at least concerning 5A).
The earlier illustration, leaked to the media at some point prior to the book, is based on partial leaks.
For example, the dog's alleged alert outside was not in front of Madeleine's window as the illustration purports to show, but in the garden below the patio (which is on the other side of the flat). The fact that a dog allegedly alerted outside at all can only be due to a leak... but it was yet another half-baked one, like thousands of others.
-
He wasn't wrong.
Like Dr McCann says, she's either out there, or, she's not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw#t=470
Considering, according to the Dr's McCanns insistance, she's most definitely out there, why then do you think Mr McCann would even entertain the possibility that she's not?
I'll help you out, it's because she's not.
They have both said that they acknowledge that she may either still be alive or not, but until there is proof that she isn't alive, then they will continue to hope that she is.
If you can be so sure that she isn't alive, I can only presume that you were there that night and have intimate knowledge of what actually did occur.
You're not Smithman, by any chance? ;)
-
They have both said that they acknowledge that she may either still be alive or not, but until there is proof that she isn't alive, then they will continue to hope that she is.
If you can be so sure that she isn't alive, I can only presume that you were there that night and have intimate knowledge of what actually did occur.
You're not Smithman, by any chance? ;)
Is not the issue, pay attention.
Dr McCann presents the following options.
1) She's out there.
2) She's not.
3) She's out there alive.
Clearly the she's not option includes not alive.
He considers that a possibility, her not being out there & not alive.
But hey, she's out there until proven otherwise, isn't she.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw#t=470
If she really had been abducted there'd be no option 2, but there is.
-
Hmmm.
I do find that there are more serious breaches than the fairly obvious one that he gave publishers access to restricted information prior to secrecy being lifted. (It does however raise questions as to what other breaches he may have been involved in...)
Aside from that, there is a question of TIMING.
His pre-publication round of interviews preceded the news of what the legal summary actually said and thus virtually eclipsed the conclusions that there was no evidence to indicate what had actually happened to her, nor any to support the idea that any of the arguidos had any involvement.
After so many half-baked leaks, the official conclusions should have helped to set the record straight in the press both for the McCanns and for Murat, and hopefully renewed the public's vigilance.
Instead, the opposite happened.
The wave of publicity for his book, prior to the publication, insisting that she was dead and the McCanns were involved, and that he 'knew so', was far more "juicy" than the the conclusions of the legal ruling relating to his tenure that his team had been barking up the wrong tree and didn't know how to climb back down.
I have never seen such a precise summation of the immediate and subsequent consequences of the writing of this book.
It took precedence over the official conclusions of the case from which Mr Amaral was dismissed and to this day there are still people who ridiculously think he is in possession of 'reveal all facts'.
It seems that a complaint that judicial secrecy was broken may already have been lodged with the prosecutors and may be why it was mentioned by the judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro.
**snip
The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, alleged that Mr Amaral broke the law by sending a draft of his book to his publishers several months before the judicial secrecy period in the case was lifted in July 2008.
The lawyer also alleged that the ex-policeman released facts about the investigation that were not in the case files.
It will be for the Portuguese public prosecutor to decide whether the former detective has a case to answer.
http://metro.co.uk/2010/01/15/mccanns-lodge-complaint-with-police-33143/
-
Hmmm.
I do find that there are more serious breaches than the fairly obvious one that he gave publishers access to restricted information prior to secrecy being lifted. (It does however raise questions as to what other breaches he may have been involved in...)
Aside from that, there is a question of TIMING.
His pre-publication round of interviews preceded the news of what the legal summary actually said and thus virtually eclipsed the conclusions that there was no evidence to indicate what had actually happened to her, nor any to support the idea that any of the arguidos had any involvement.
After so many half-baked leaks, the official conclusions should have helped to set the record straight in the press both for the McCanns and for Murat, and hopefully renewed the public's vigilance.
Instead, the opposite happened.
The wave of publicity for his book, prior to the publication, insisting that she was dead and the McCanns were involved, and that he 'knew so', was far more "juicy" than the the conclusions of the legal ruling relating to his tenure that his team had been barking up the wrong tree and didn't know how to climb back down.
&%+((£ That really wasn't the conclusion of the investigation. The conclusion was we've reached no conclusions. None.
But GA in 2008 knew very well how CM and the English papers would spin it. I'm sure that influenced him. He simply stuck to his opinion just like the English papers and columnists (and some Portuguese) did.
-
I have never seen such a precise summation of the immediate and subsequent consequences of the writing of this book.
It took precedence over the official conclusions of the case from which Mr Amaral was dismissed and to this day there are still people who ridiculously think he is in possession of 'reveal all facts'.
It seems that a complaint that judicial secrecy was broken may already have been lodged with the prosecutors and may be why it was mentioned by the judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro.
**snip
The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, alleged that Mr Amaral broke the law by sending a draft of his book to his publishers several months before the judicial secrecy period in the case was lifted in July 2008.
The lawyer also alleged that the ex-policeman released facts about the investigation that were not in the case files.
It will be for the Portuguese public prosecutor to decide whether the former detective has a case to answer.
http://metro.co.uk/2010/01/15/mccanns-lodge-complaint-with-police-33143/
The Metro quote is knocking on five years old.
As I suggested in an earlier post if the Portuguese judiciary are hell bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws, their inclination to do so does not seem to have even the same sense of urgency as manana.
-
The Metro quote is knocking on five years old.
As I suggested in an earlier post if the Portuguese judiciary are hell bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws, their inclination to do so does not seem to have even the same sense of urgency as manana.
Who has claimed that the Portuguese Judiciary are "hell-bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws"?
-
Who has claimed that the Portuguese Judiciary are "hell-bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws"?
I think I said "if" somewhere in my post.
My point being .....well you know precisely what my point was.
-
I think I said "if" somewhere in my post.
My point being .....well you know precisely what my point was.
The subject of this thread is did Amaral break secrecy laws not "are the PT judiciary hell-bent on prosecuting Amaral" so what is your point exactly?
-
The subject of this thread is did Amaral break secrecy laws not "are the PT judiciary hell-bent on prosecuting Amaral" so what is your point exactly?
I think the point may be that just as no action appears to have been taken against GA for any breach of those laws, no action was taken against anyone else breaching them either (and that was everyone).
-
The subject of this thread is did Amaral break secrecy laws not "are the PT judiciary hell-bent on prosecuting Amaral" so what is your point exactly?
Well I guess if the mods become as p****d off as you appear to be my posts will be removed.
My point is that Dr Amaral may well have breached secrecy laws we don't really know.
Inaction by the authorities would indicate either he hasn't or it is not considered worthy of prosecution.
-
Mr Amaral was unable to prove his theory that Madeleine McCann had died in apartment 5a and her parents were complicit when he was the co-ordinator of the force investigating her disappearance.
His investigation was such a disaster that it eventually cost him his job; for this he apparently blamed Madeleine's parents and became an author it could be argued partly to use his former position and inside knowledge of the case for pay-back time and partly as a new career move.
In doing so the restrictions placed on him by the rule of law were summarily dismissed and a mob rule informed by propaganda instituted in its place.
The speed with which this was done after the archiving of Madeleine's case made it obvious that Mr Amaral was in breach of the code governing secrecy in Portugal and as DCI has pointed out on this thread this is exemplified by his use of illustrations taken, not from memory but from official sources.
This unprofessional conduct does indeed raise a thought.
Anyone in this country who has had access to information which is covered by the Official Secrets Act is considered to be bound by it for life and many take outdated information to their graves in respecting this.
Surely there is something amiss in the Judicial Secrecy Laws in Portugal if a public official is enabled to release information with impunity in the case of a missing child just because he has resigned his position?
-
According to Amaral, he asked for permissions from The PJ to write his book while he was still employed, but it was refused. Which is why he resigned.
Not sure what this says about anything to do with The Secrecy Laws.
-
Mr Amaral was unable to prove his theory that Madeleine McCann had died in apartment 5a and her parents were complicit when he was the co-ordinator of the force investigating her disappearance.
His investigation was such a disaster that it eventually cost him his job; for this he apparently blamed Madeleine's parents and became an author it could be argued partly to use his former position and inside knowledge of the case for pay-back time and partly as a new career move.
In doing so the restrictions placed on him by the rule of law were summarily dismissed and a mob rule informed by propaganda instituted in its place.
The speed with which this was done after the archiving of Madeleine's case made it obvious that Mr Amaral was in breach of the code governing secrecy in Portugal and as DCI has pointed out on this thread this is exemplified by his use of illustrations taken, not from memory but from official sources.
This unprofessional conduct does indeed raise a thought.
Anyone in this country who has had access to information which is covered by the Official Secrets Act is considered to be bound by it for life and many take outdated information to their graves in respecting this.
Surely there is something amiss in the Judicial Secrecy Laws in Portugal if a public official is enabled to release information with impunity in the case of a missing child just because he has resigned his position?
As much of the archived investigation has been put into the public domain quite legally in Portugal I would suggest comparing The Official Secrets Act of the UK with Judicial Secrecy in Portugal is inappropriate.
We do not know with any degree of certainty that the controlling magistrate did not give him [Dr Amaral] permission to use selected documents as sources for his book do we ?
For all I know he [Dr Amaral] may be .........t little s**t on the face of the earth, bent as a dockers hook and the book bootlegged from official sources without permission. Those factors however do not appear to have cut it with the judge at the trial.
-
Mr Amaral was unable to prove his theory that Madeleine McCann had died in apartment 5a and her parents were complicit when he was the co-ordinator of the force investigating her disappearance.
His investigation was such a disaster that it eventually cost him his job; for this he apparently blamed Madeleine's parents and became an author it could be argued partly to use his former position and inside knowledge of the case for pay-back time and partly as a new career move.
In doing so the restrictions placed on him by the rule of law were summarily dismissed and a mob rule informed by propaganda instituted in its place.
The speed with which this was done after the archiving of Madeleine's case made it obvious that Mr Amaral was in breach of the code governing secrecy in Portugal and as DCI has pointed out on this thread this is exemplified by his use of illustrations taken, not from memory but from official sources.
This unprofessional conduct does indeed raise a thought.
Anyone in this country who has had access to information which is covered by the Official Secrets Act is considered to be bound by it for life and many take outdated information to their graves in respecting this.
Surely there is something amiss in the Judicial Secrecy Laws in Portugal if a public official is enabled to release information with impunity in the case of a missing child just because he has resigned his position?
Are you for real ?
You do realize that Amaral's basic theory has not been disproved, don't you ?
and what has this got to do with the official secrets act ?
It isn't a matter of national security.
-
Those factors however do not appear to have cut it with the judge at the trial.
The judges considered libel, not Portuguese secrecy laws.
Breach of secrecy laws may be a consideration of (subsequent) criminal proceedings in Amaral's crowded schedule of court proceedings ...
-
Those factors however do not appear to have cut it with the judge at the trial.
The judges considered libel, not Portuguese secrecy laws.
Breach of secrecy laws may be a consideration of (subsequent) criminal proceedings in Amaral's crowded schedule of court proceedings ...
Really ?
Unfortunately, all the information was already in the public domain.
So that won't wash.
-
Mr Amaral was unable to prove his theory that Madeleine McCann had died in apartment 5a and her parents were complicit when he was the co-ordinator of the force investigating her disappearance.
His investigation was such a disaster that it eventually cost him his job; for this he apparently blamed Madeleine's parents and became an author it could be argued partly to use his former position and inside knowledge of the case for pay-back time and partly as a new career move.
In doing so the restrictions placed on him by the rule of law were summarily dismissed and a mob rule informed by propaganda instituted in its place.
The speed with which this was done after the archiving of Madeleine's case made it obvious that Mr Amaral was in breach of the code governing secrecy in Portugal and as DCI has pointed out on this thread this is exemplified by his use of illustrations taken, not from memory but from official sources.
This unprofessional conduct does indeed raise a thought.
Anyone in this country who has had access to information which is covered by the Official Secrets Act is considered to be bound by it for life and many take outdated information to their graves in respecting this.
Surely there is something amiss in the Judicial Secrecy Laws in Portugal if a public official is enabled to release information with impunity in the case of a missing child just because he has resigned his position?
His investigation was not a disaster. He was after the right man when he was removed. The same guy SY are after 7 years later. The UK interfering here there and everywhere was the real disaster. Not receiving statements - Gaspar, crecheman - not that is a cluster fk!
-
His investigation was not a disaster. He was after the right man when he was removed. The same guy SY are after 7 years later. The UK interfering here there and everywhere was the real disaster. Not receiving statements - Gaspar, crecheman - not that is a cluster fk!
His investigation WAS a disaster. Right from day one he treated Madeleine as being dead. No evidence to point to that at all. He was NOT searching for a living child at all, just ?hoping for a dead one .... ? so that he could pin the crime on Kate or Gerry. IMO
Also, he didn't understand the dogs alerts and made a right pigs ear of that.
The ordinary cops at Portimao are to be congratulated on their diligent work, but Amaral messed up badly ... ably assisted by some of his senior officers
And now,are we finding that he breached Secrecy Laws. Jeez !
-
His investigation WAS a disaster. Right from day one he treated Madeleine as being dead. No evidence to point to that at all. He was NOT searching for a living child at all, just ?hoping for a dead one .... ? so that he could pin the crime on Kate or Gerry. IMO
Also, he didn't understand the dogs alerts and made a right pigs ear of that.
The ordinary cops at Portimao are to be congratulated on their diligent work, but Amaral messed up badly ... ably assisted by some of his senior officers
And now,are we finding that he breached Secrecy Laws. Jeez !
Only in the eyes of the mccanns and those who support them sadie.
As to 'secrecy laws', how do you breach something that is already in the public domain ?
............and try not to believe everything emanating from the mccann camp.
-
Back on topic please
-
Those factors however do not appear to have cut it with the judge at the trial.
The judges considered libel, not Portuguese secrecy laws.
Breach of secrecy laws may be a consideration of (subsequent) criminal proceedings in Amaral's crowded schedule of court proceedings ...
I think I had worked that out.
But they are sure taking a long time doing anything about the secrecy bit don't they?
-
As much of the archived investigation has been put into the public domain quite legally in Portugal I would suggest comparing The Official Secrets Act of the UK with Judicial Secrecy in Portugal is inappropriate.
We do not know with any degree of certainty that the controlling magistrate did not give him [Dr Amaral] permission to use selected documents as sources for his book do we ?
For all I know he [Dr Amaral] may be .........t little s**t on the face of the earth, bent as a dockers hook and the book bootlegged from official sources without permission. Those factors however do not appear to have cut it with the judge at the trial.
I think you may be wrong about the legality of the PJ files being posted en mass on the internet by a blogging journalist.
Can you give another example when case files have been so published ... for example Jacinta Reese who apparently committed suicide by whacking herself over the head repeatedly with an axe? or the murder of Rachel Charles? or Joana Cipriano?
It is my understanding that the files can be read by interested parties, lawyers, journalists in the interests of transparancy and that is it ... unless you can clearly state otherwise I would consider that their release on the internet was illegal.
IMO there is no dichotomy between the Official Secrets Act in Britain and Judicial Secrecy Law in Portugal.
-
I think you may be wrong about the legality of the PJ files being posted en mass on the internet by a blogging journalist.
Can you give another example when case files have been so published ... for example Jacinta Reese who apparently committed suicide by whacking herself over the head repeatedly with an axe? or the murder of Rachel Charles? or Joana Cipriano?
It is my understanding that the files can be read by interested parties, lawyers, journalists in the interests of transparancy and that is it ... unless you can clearly state otherwise I would consider that their release on the internet was illegal.
IMO there is no dichotomy between the Official Secrets Act in Britain and Judicial Secrecy Law in Portugal.
Funnily enough Alice was quite happy to bring up the Official Secrets Act when discussing JT's supposed breach of judicial secrecy a while back! http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5795.msg206496#msg206496
-
Funnily enough Alice was quite happy to bring up the Official Secrets Act when discussing JT's supposed breach of judicial secrecy a while back! http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5795.msg206496#msg206496
Indeed I did saying pretty much what I am saying now.
Whats yer point Alf?
-
Who leaked all the classified information to Paulo Cristaveo to enable him to publish his book - long before the case was shelved and Amaral's book was published?
-
Indeed I did saying pretty much what I am saying now.
Whats yer point Alf?
"" I would suggest comparing The Official Secrets Act of the UK with Judicial Secrecy in Portugal is inappropriate" you said (except obviously when discussing JT's alleged breaking of judicial secrecy of course!)
-
"" I would suggest comparing The Official Secrets Act of the UK with Judicial Secrecy in Portugal is inappropriate" you said (except obviously when discussing JT's alleged breaking of judicial secrecy of course!)
The comparison of the two laws is inappropriate. They are designed for different applications.
I said that one way or another in both posts.
But then you realise that is what I was saying. I don't believe you are daft enough not to have realised...............
-
Who leaked all the classified information to Paulo Cristaveo to enable him to publish his book - long before the case was shelved and Amaral's book was published?
Oh yes, "The Star of Madeliene" Released 19/03/2008. Doesn't take too much working out does it Misty?
Cristovao, who left the force following the case, even though he never worked on it. Odd that!
-
Oh yes, "The Star of Madeliene" Released 19/03/2008. Doesn't take too much working out does it Misty?
Cristovao, who left the force following the case, even though he never worked on it. Odd that!
It does make you wonder how the 2 men could put pen to paper, safe in the knowledge that their hard work and deadline dates wouldn't be spoiled by the reappearance of the subject.
-
Funnily enough Alice was quite happy to bring up the Official Secrets Act when discussing JT's supposed breach of judicial secrecy a while back! http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5795.msg206496#msg206496
LOL a leak may not be a leak if it is Goncalo Amaral doing the leaking ... we shall await any repercussions with bated breath.
Actually I was not aware that one had to sign the act for it to be binding and I would be of the opinion that sensitive material didn't become less sensitive when the handler changed jobs or retired.
However the point I was trying to make was that not only did Mr Amaral behave in a distinctly unprofessional manner ... he acted illegally by writing his book.
He was not a whistle blower against officialdom; he unleashed a maelstrom of hatred against the parents of a missing child when he appointed himself as hanging judge and fixed jury.
-
It does make you wonder how the 2 men could put pen to paper, safe in the knowledge that their hard work and deadline dates wouldn't be spoiled by the reappearance of the subject.
I was wondering about that as well. That would have been awkward, although I've no doubt a different heroic ending could have been rustled up.
-
It does make you wonder how the 2 men could put pen to paper, safe in the knowledge that their hard work and deadline dates wouldn't be spoiled by the reappearance of the subject.
Concidering Christoavo was never on the case, where did he get all his file information from?
Was his book not mentioned by the judge?
-
Concidering Christoavo was never on the case, where did he get all his file information from?
Was his book not mentioned by the judge?
PPC never went as far as accusing the parents of concealing a cadaver iirc.
I'd hazard a (not too wild) guess that TDA was the source of his information. I believe his role in all this has slipped very much under the radar.
-
PPC never went as far as accusing the parents of concealing a cadaver iirc.
I'd hazard a (not too wild) guess that TDA was the source of his information. I believe his role in all has slipped very much under the radar.
Has it ever been established whether or not he did actually take "leave" at around the time Amaral got booted from the case?
-
Has it ever been established whether or not he did actually take "leave" at around the time Amaral got booted from the case?
TAVARES ALMEIDA
A senior police officer in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has asked for an extended leave of absence. Chief Inspector Tavares Almeida's request, reported in the Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas, emerged after his boss, Goncalo Amaral, was taken off the case. It is reported that Mr Almeida has asked for a "licenga sem vencimento" - an extended period of absence, lasting between one month and a year, usually used for studying or training.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/INVESTIGATION.htm
-
TAVARES ALMEIDA
A senior police officer in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has asked for an extended leave of absence. Chief Inspector Tavares Almeida's request, reported in the Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas, emerged after his boss, Goncalo Amaral, was taken off the case. It is reported that Mr Almeida has asked for a "licenga sem vencimento" - an extended period of absence, lasting between one month and a year, usually used for studying or training.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/INVESTIGATION.htm
Thanks.
The pro-Amaral spin that I remember from the time was that he'd requested leave as a protest of solidarity for Amaral being booted.
However....
10/10/07
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/fotonews/2661/pdf/24.PDF
Amaral's booting happens to coincide with the Virgolino Borges affair in which Tavares de Almeida was accused of torture.
Perhaps he took leave to study horticulture?
-
quote author=misty link=topic=5997.msg219094#msg219094 date=1423608075
Who leaked all the classified information to Paulo Cristaveo to enable him to publish his book - long before the case was shelved and Amaral's book was published?
- end quote -
Were Amaral and Cristavao best friends? Cos it seemed that Cristavao was on so many photos with Amaral.
It was rumoured at the time, soon after Madeleine was taken, that Cristavao was attached to the red top newspaper in PT that was putting out all the terrible lies about the Mccanns ... spreading anti Mccann propaganda..... malicious stuff
Anyone know if he was on the payroll ?
IMO, both the Joana Cipriano case and the Rachel Charles cases [Michael Cook] were heavily affected by disinformation and propaganda put out
-
Thanks.
The pro-Amaral spin that I remember from the time was that he'd requested leave as a protest of solidarity for Amaral being booted.
However....
10/10/07
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/fotonews/2661/pdf/24.PDF
Amaral's booting happens to coincide with the Virgolino Borges affair in which Tavares de Almeida was accused of torture.
Perhaps he took leave to study horticulture?
POW !
And he was convicted.
So
- Amaral a criminal .... Perjury ... lying to the Courts.
- Tavares de Almeida a criminal .... found guilty on torture changes in the Virgolino Borges case
- Paulo Cristavao up on, is it, seven charges of a very serious nature?
- Riccardo Paiva, who sent sex photos of himself via email to a Brit, a blond model
http://ricardopaivakatesfingtosser.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/mccann-maddie-cop-sent-sex-pics-to-brit.html
All of them senior officers with the PJ and involved in the Madeleine case
Nice lot aren't they?
Have I missed any? Were there more?
-
POW !
And he was convicted.
So
- Amaral a criminal .... Perjury ... lying to the Courts.
- Tavares de Almeida a criminal .... found guilty on torture changes in the Virgolino Borges case
- Paulo Cristavao up on, is it, seven charges of a very serious nature?
- Riccardo Paiva, who sent sex photos of himself via email to a Brit, a blond model
http://ricardopaivakatesfingtosser.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/mccann-maddie-cop-sent-sex-pics-to-brit.html
All of them senior officers with the PJ and involved in the Madeleine case
Nice lot aren't they?
Have I missed any? Were there more?
Probably a conspiracy by the PTB to get them out of the way....
-
POW !
And he was convicted.
So
- Amaral a criminal .... Perjury ... lying to the Courts.
- Tavares de Almeida a criminal .... found guilty on torture changes in the Virgolino Borges case
- Paulo Cristavao up on, is it, seven charges of a very serious nature?
- Riccardo Paiva, who sent sex photos of himself via email to a Brit, a blond model
http://ricardopaivakatesfingtosser.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/mccann-maddie-cop-sent-sex-pics-to-brit.html
All of them senior officers with the PJ and involved in the Madeleine case
Nice lot aren't they?
Have I missed any? Were there more?
The obsession with Amaral and co., merely highlights the desperation mccann supporters are now feeling, no doubt along with the mccanns themselves.
Do you think these attacks will change the outcome of the trial and the judges findings ?
Rather like the attempt last week when the 'judicial secrecy' was brought up, and that has backfired. Clearly pathetic.
What is the legal status of Amaral these days sadie ?
What have Paiva's photos got to do with this case, by the way ?
If you want to bring up 'personal details' sadie which have nothing to do with this case, well that can be a two edged sword, as to other 'parties' involved in this case.
and which of these people have acted illegally in this case ?
Please be accurate
-
The obsession with Amaral and co., merely highlights the desperation mccann supporters are now feeling, no doubt along with the mccanns themselves.
Do you think these attacks will change the outcome of the trial and the judges findings ?
Rather like the attempt last week when the 'judicial secrecy' was brought up, and that has backfired. Clearly pathetic.
What is the legal status of Amaral these days sadie ?
What have Paiva's photos got to do with this case, by the way ?
If you want to bring up 'personal details' sadie which have nothing to do with this case, well that can be a two edged sword, as to other 'parties' involved in this case.
and which of these people have acted illegally in this case ?
Please be accurate
Why is it an attack to post proven facts about police officers who were involved in this case?
Considering your own repeated 'attacks' on DCI Redwood over the Barry George case - your post is more than a tad hypocritical imo.
As far as I know Amaral's present legal status is that he is an ex-policeman with a criminal conviction who was removed from a case for breaking the Secrecy Laws. How would you describe his status?
Please be accurate.
-
The obsession with Amaral and co., merely highlights the desperation mccann supporters are now feeling, no doubt along with the mccanns themselves.
Do you think these attacks will change the outcome of the trial and the judges findings ?
Rather like the attempt last week when the 'judicial secrecy' was brought up, and that has backfired. Clearly pathetic.
What is the legal status of Amaral these days sadie ?
What have Paiva's photos got to do with this case, by the way ?
If you want to bring up 'personal details' sadie which have nothing to do with this case, well that can be a two edged sword, as to other 'parties' involved in this case.
and which of these people have acted illegally in this case ?
Please be accurate
I haven't heard if Dr Gerry McCann and Dr Kate McCann have as much as a traffic violation between them let alone a criminal conviction.
I'm sure we would have heard all about it had that been the case.
I can say with some confidence that their companions on the holiday come into the same category; if any had committed a criminal offence I am sure we would have heard all about it.
The propaganda doing the rounds containing smears, insinuation and innuendo ... none of which has any basis but which is part of the lexicon of hate directed at Madeleine McCann's parents ... is just that, propaganda started in the early hours of Madeleine's disappearance to build their case.
Makes one wonder why they knew so soon and with such certainty that they weren't going to find her.
On the other hand, it appears that the Portuguese courts have determined that the senior investigators in Madeleine's case and their associates were mired in corruption and have been awarded criminal convictions as a result.
I think that makes the small matter of leaking false information about an ongoing investigation - that is - breaking the law on judicial secrecy very small beer indeed.
As Sadie has pointed out ... trial by media worked for them in the past.
-
I haven't heard if Dr Gerry McCann and Dr Kate McCann have as much as a traffic violation between them let alone a criminal conviction.
I'm sure we would have heard all about it had that been the case.
I can say with some confidence that their companions on the holiday come into the same category; if any had committed a criminal offence I am sure we would have heard all about it.
The propaganda doing the rounds containing smears, insinuation and innuendo ... none of which has any basis but which is part of the lexicon of hate directed at Madeleine McCann's parents ... is just that, propaganda started in the early hours of Madeleine's disappearance to build their case.
Makes one wonder why they knew so soon and with such certainty that they weren't going to find her.
On the other hand, it appears that the Portuguese courts have determined that the senior investigators in Madeleine's case and their associates were mired in corruption and have been awarded criminal convictions as a result.
I think that makes the small matter of leaking false information about an ongoing investigation - that is - breaking the law on judicial secrecy very small beer indeed.
As Sadie has pointed out ... trial by media worked for them in the past.
I hope they sue you for that.
-
I hope they sue you for that.
Be specific ... who and what?