UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Anna on March 15, 2015, 12:03:41 AM
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BELGRADE – Three arrested kidnappers told the police that the motive for kidnapping of the two-year-old girl Masa was supposedly obtain custody over an almost identical child that lives in France, and whose mother is one of the kidnappers, Serbian media reported.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
(http://i2.wp.com/inserbia.info/today/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/otmicar-branko-sebastijan.jpg)
“Three kidnappers who were arrested for kidnapping Masa are members of the same family. Misel Sebastian and his wife Sandrin Goren went to Serbia together with their daughter Kristel Etje to kidnap the girl, who incredibly looks like Kristel’s child,” media reports.
Kidnappers’ intention, as they claim, was to kidnap the girl who looks like the daughter Kristel (26) really does have in France. Masa was supposed to serve them in a lawsuit Kristel filed against her husband, with the goal to prove that the daughter they have is not his,” the police said.
Kidnappers planned to take Masa out of Serbia using the passport of Kristel’s real daughter. Then they planned to take Masa to the court, as Kristela’s daughter, and to have DNA taken from her to be tested to prove that she is not the daughter of Kristel’s husband. In that way, Kristela would have her child only to herself, and they counted that the fraud could have worked because Kristel’s husband has seen his daughter only once.
“Kidnappers claim that they planned to return Masa to Serbia after the fraud is over,” said the police.
The Prosecutor’s Office says that they are still waiting for information from their counterparts in France.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/03/belgrade-kidnappers-took-the-girl-to-deceive-the-court-and-win-custody/
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BELGRADE – Three arrested kidnappers told the police that the motive for kidnapping of the two-year-old girl Masa was supposedly obtain custody over an almost identical child that lives in France, and whose mother is one of the kidnappers, Serbian media reported.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
(http://i2.wp.com/inserbia.info/today/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/otmicar-branko-sebastijan.jpg)
“Three kidnappers who were arrested for kidnapping Masa are members of the same family. Misel Sebastian and his wife Sandrin Goren went to Serbia together with their daughter Kristel Etje to kidnap the girl, who incredibly looks like Kristel’s child,” media reports.
Kidnappers’ intention, as they claim, was to kidnap the girl who looks like the daughter Kristel (26) really does have in France. Masa was supposed to serve them in a lawsuit Kristel filed against her husband, with the goal to prove that the daughter they have is not his,” the police said.
Kidnappers planned to take Masa out of Serbia using the passport of Kristel’s real daughter. Then they planned to take Masa to the court, as Kristela’s daughter, and to have DNA taken from her to be tested to prove that she is not the daughter of Kristel’s husband. In that way, Kristela would have her child only to herself, and they counted that the fraud could have worked because Kristel’s husband has seen his daughter only once.
“Kidnappers claim that they planned to return Masa to Serbia after the fraud is over,” said the police.
The Prosecutor’s Office says that they are still waiting for information from their counterparts in France.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/03/belgrade-kidnappers-took-the-girl-to-deceive-the-court-and-win-custody/
There is an obvious (DNA) flaw in that cunning & convoluted plan.
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Something doesn't add up.
I suspected there may have been a child that they tried to find a copy too, but only for passport reasons and being able to show the child (real one in passport) if investigated.
It is a Mother, Father and daughter team, so why speaking in different languages? I don't think we have heard the end of it yet.
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There is an obvious (DNA) flaw in that cunning & convoluted plan.
Well spotted Misty.
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BELGRADE – Three arrested kidnappers told the police that the motive for kidnapping of the two-year-old girl Masa was supposedly obtain custody over an almost identical child that lives in France, and whose mother is one of the kidnappers, Serbian media reported.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
(http://i2.wp.com/inserbia.info/today/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/otmicar-branko-sebastijan.jpg)
“Three kidnappers who were arrested for kidnapping Masa are members of the same family. Misel Sebastian and his wife Sandrin Goren went to Serbia together with their daughter Kristel Etje to kidnap the girl, who incredibly looks like Kristel’s child,” media reports.
Kidnappers’ intention, as they claim, was to kidnap the girl who looks like the daughter Kristel (26) really does have in France. Masa was supposed to serve them in a lawsuit Kristel filed against her husband, with the goal to prove that the daughter they have is not his,” the police said.
Kidnappers planned to take Masa out of Serbia using the passport of Kristel’s real daughter. Then they planned to take Masa to the court, as Kristela’s daughter, and to have DNA taken from her to be tested to prove that she is not the daughter of Kristel’s husband. In that way, Kristela would have her child only to herself, and they counted that the fraud could have worked because Kristel’s husband has seen his daughter only once.
“Kidnappers claim that they planned to return Masa to Serbia after the fraud is over,” said the police.
The Prosecutor’s Office says that they are still waiting for information from their counterparts in France.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/03/belgrade-kidnappers-took-the-girl-to-deceive-the-court-and-win-custody/
It certainly appears to be stranger abduction carried out in broad daylight and prevented only by the swift response of the police.
At every stage of the kidnap these horrible people put the little girl at serious risk. It will be interesting to see what information comes out of France about them.
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My goodness, that's a convoluted plot. Not sure if I believe this. How daft did they think that The Courts are?
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Something doesn't add up.
I suspected there may have been a child that they tried to find a copy too, but only for passport reasons and being able to show the child (real one in passport) if investigated.
It is a Mother, Father and daughter team, so why speaking in different languages? I don't think we have heard the end of it yet.
It's making no sense to me whatsoever, Anna. Hopefully there will be some kind of official information from the police or the public prosecutor: breaking news is notoriously unreliable.
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The lengths some people will go to in paternity suits can never be underestimated. It's a pity they didn't have the same respect for the kidnapped child though.
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The lengths some people will go to in paternity suits can never be underestimated. It's a pity they didn't have the same respect for the kidnapped child though.
At the moment, little seems to be clear aside from one man and two women were apparently arrested following a car chase ending near a border and the rescue of a young child.
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It's making no sense to me whatsoever, Anna. Hopefully there will be some kind of official information from the police or the public prosecutor: breaking news is notoriously unreliable.
I agree Carana.
I believe that story said that the daughters father had only seen her once, so it doesn't sound as if he wants her, that much.
Anyone who has a child or loves children, could not have done such a thing to a mother and child, surely?
I think it is a team thing (possibly father included) but, I hope it is soon discovered what reason lies behind it.
I would not want to hear that another mother had go through what that little girls Mum did 8(8-))
The little girl is safe and right now that is all that matters.
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The lengths some people will go to in paternity suits can never be underestimated. It's a pity they didn't have the same respect for the kidnapped child though.
I think the child is often used as a punishment stick, in these severe cases. Terribly unkind, but that's life nowadays.
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Posted by Vixte..
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=sr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prvi.saznaj.net%2Fekskluzivno%2Fovo-bi-svi-roditelji-trebali-znati-otmicarima-djevojcice-pomogao-je-fejsbuk-njenih-roditelja-evo-kako%2F&edit-text=
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There is an obvious (DNA) flaw in that cunning & convoluted plan.
The DNA test would prove she is not her mother either.
Like in the French case reported earlier this month.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950424/My-baby-swapped-birth-bringing-stranger.html
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The DNA test would prove she is not her mother either.
Like in the French case reported earlier this month.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950424/My-baby-swapped-birth-bringing-stranger.html
Exactly. So possibly a bit more to this.
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Interview with the Serbian Interior Minister.
Hoping Vixte can translate what he's saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3O2SEbVYTA#t=16
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More footage: moving reunion with her dad. The young guy with glasses seems to be the Minister of the Interior (or his twin brother).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTgaO3tcH40
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Devastating. Good. Thank God they caught the barstards, whatever the agenda. Just lock them up.
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Devastating. Good. Thank God they caught the barstards, whatever the agenda. Just lock them up.
Quite.
However traumatising this must be for the little victim's family, they're still extremely lucky that there were witnesses to the abduction, a witness quick-witted enough to alert the police immediately, the police were quick to respond and had CCTV to corroborate it and chase the vehicle...
How often do abductions with such actionable (yes, I hate the word as well) evidence take place?
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Quite.
However traumatising this must be for the little victim's family, they're still extremely lucky that there were witnesses to the abduction, a witness quick-witted enough to alert the police immediately, the police were quick to respond and had CCTV to corroborate it and chase the vehicle...
How often do abductions with such actionable (yes, I hate the word as well) evidence take place?
The police were unbelievably fast with cars and helicopters joining the search. This was all on the same day as the helicopter crash that killed 7 whilst taking a baby to hospital.
ETA
And if you are superstitious ...I believe it was Friday 13th
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BELGRADE – The special department of Belgrade’s high court has placed in detention for up to 30 days three French nationals suspected of kidnapping a two-year girl in Belgrade on Friday.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
The two women and one man are facing charges of kidnapping, because they snatched the toddler in Belgrade’s Brace Jerkovic district around 1 p.m.
They tried to leave Serbia in their BMW car, but a timely police intervention prevented them from doing so.
The motives behind the kidnapping are still unknown, but if tried and convicted in Serbia as human traffickers following an investigation, the suspects could face up to 15 years in prison.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/03/serbia-30-days-detention-for-3-french-nationals-suspected-of-kidnapping/
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Nothing Third World about Serbia. So well done for that. But I cannot see what on earth they hoped to do, unless they had gotten away with it.
Give her back? And my Aunt Fanny.
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I don't believe that they would risk taking her back to her parents. &%&£(+
I think it is all a Cock and Bull story.
Nobody who truly cares for children would take a child from it's mother for such selfish reasons.
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I think as far as they were concerned the child was nothing more than a commodity. I do not believe for a minute that there was any intention to return her; I think if they had succeeded her parents would never have seen her again.
Without witnesses and CCTV followed by the highly efficient police rescue operation ... this story would have been in the realms of fantasy.
For example, had the mother been walking in an isolated country road with her daughter what would have been the proof of abduction?? Would the mother's version of events have been believed?
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Its always more difficult to resolve a crime when there are no witnesses to the actual event.
The McCann case is a good example of this.
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Its always more difficult to resolve a crime when there are no witnesses to the actual event.
The McCann case is a good example of this.
And much the same as the murders of Lin and Megan Russell.
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And much the same as the murders of Lin and Megan Russell.
And the Dando one, which has not been solved to this day.
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Its always more difficult to resolve a crime when there are no witnesses to the actual event.
The McCann case is a good example of this.
In the hypothetical circumstances I have described had the mother's witness statement been all the police had to go on would she have been believed?
The abduction of a minor as in the Belgrade incident is of itself difficult to take in for normal human beings who would never contemplate such actions in their wildest dreams.
However in the event there are no witnesses to the event there is always the fall back to forensic evidence. Unfortunately Madeleine's case is a prime example of collection of that evidence being botched by the primary forensics team.
There has been much discussion of the veracity of Jane Tanner's witness of a person carrying a child in the immediate vicinity of apartment 5A ... the veracity of which has been questioned because of her description of the manner in which the child was carried.
The still taken from a video of an actual abduction in progress shows exactly the child being carried in the manner described by Jane Tanner.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2995680/Boy-15-wore-fake-mustache-try-abduct-child-linked-kidnap-case-nine-months-ago.html#ixzz3UXok5WQV
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I think as far as they were concerned the child was nothing more than a commodity. I do not believe for a minute that there was any intention to return her; I think if they had succeeded her parents would never have seen her again.
Without witnesses and CCTV followed by the highly efficient police rescue operation ... this story would have been in the realms of fantasy.
For example, had the mother been walking in an isolated country road with her daughter what would have been the proof of abduction?? Would the mother's version of events have been believed?
I believe that this is where she was abducted, Brietta, so there must have luckily, been a few people around at the time.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1476366-romanians-kidnapped-two-year-old-in-vozdovac-a-hot-pursuit-in-belgrade
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/13/Mirjana-i-Damir-otmica-Vozdovac-Braca-Jerkovic-2.jpg)
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/13/mala1-670x5021-620x350.jpg)
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I believe that this is where she was abducted, Brietta, so there must have luckily, been a few people around at the time.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1476366-romanians-kidnapped-two-year-old-in-vozdovac-a-hot-pursuit-in-belgrade
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/13/Mirjana-i-Damir-otmica-Vozdovac-Braca-Jerkovic-2.jpg)
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/13/mala1-670x5021-620x350.jpg)
Thanks Anna.
Looks like garages and parking (the P sign gave it away) for the nearby flats.
At the time of day the kidnap occurred there is a fair chance it was deserted, children at school and residents at work. With no-one around except for the mother and child these people must have taken their opportunity to snatch the child.
They must have thought they would get away with it, just remains to be seen if we find out what was behind it all.
What a lovely family ... thank goodness for the safe return of the little girl.
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Interview with the Serbian Interior Minister.
Hoping Vixte can translate what he's saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3O2SEbVYTA#t=16
In the first video the Minister is saying they will work around the clock to figure out what the motive was.
Then the reporter is showing the car is saying the car was intercepted on the border where they got the child unhurt and the father later came to pick up his daughter. The minister is saying again that the kidnappers had the passport of a child but they are not sure which child is this because it is a baby photo on it and they are investigating whether the photo of the baby matches the kidnapped child. He said he saw the passport, the photo is of a small child and they would like to know who this child is. Since the passport was produced some time ago this could be her photo or a photo or some other child. They would know the next day if the photo is matching the kidnapped child. They are waiting for more information about this passport from their French colleagues.
The video (cctv) at 1:10 then is showing the part of the kidnapping showing the actual car.Then there is some social worker talking about the unusual profile of the stolen child in this case. Usually a missing child would be known to social services and in her 11 years of her career she's never heard of a similar case of a kidnapping. And in Serbian law this kind of kidnapping is facing the prison term from 3 to 15 years.
In the next video the Minister is talking: he's saying they received a call from area of Vozdovac in capital Belgrade where the child was stolen from mums arms. Their transport police acted quickly and soon they knew the position of the car in question and they deployed the helicopters and intercepting vehicles. The policemen behind him were part of the team trying to intercept the car with kidnappers. At one point they tried to push the child through the window and over a fence but the police persuited them and surrounded them and prevented this action.
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In the first video the Minister is saying they will work around the clock to figure out what the motive was.
Then the reporter is showing the car is saying the car was intercepted on the border where they got the child unhurt and the father later came to pick up his daughter. The minister is saying again that the kidnappers had the passport of a child but they are not sure which child is this because it is a baby photo on it and they are investigating whether the photo of the baby matches the kidnapped child. He said he saw the passport, the photo is of a small child and they would like to know who this child is. Since the passport was produced some time ago this could be her photo or a photo or some other child. They would know the next day if the photo is matching the kidnapped child. They are waiting for more information about this passport from their French colleagues.
The video (cctv) at 1:10 then is showing the part of the kidnapping showing the actual car.Then there is some social worker talking about the unusual profile of the stolen child in this case. Usually a missing child would be known to social services and in her 11 years of her career she's never heard of a similar case of a kidnapping. And in Serbian law this kind of kidnapping is facing the prison term from 3 to 15 years.
In the next video the Minister is talking: he's saying they received a call from area of Vozdovac in capital Belgrade where the child was stolen from mums arms. Their transport police acted quickly and soon they knew the position of the car in question and they deployed the helicopters and intercepting vehicles. The policemen behind him were part of the team trying to intercept the car with kidnappers. At one point they tried to push the child through the window and over a fence but the police persuited them and surrounded them and prevented this action.
Thank you Vixte,
That is very helpful. So they tried to throw the child out of the window and over a fence..........Why would someone do that?
If the passport photo was a baby photo, it is unlikely they found this little girl with face recognition software, but I could be wrong, as I don't know much about it.
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Thank you Vixte,
That is very helpful. So they tried to throw the child out of the window and over a fence..........Why would someone do that?
If the passport photo was a baby photo, it is unlikely they found this little girl with face recognition software, but I could be wrong, as I don't know much about it.
The only thing I can think of regarding the passport is that dependent on the issue date, they stole the child aged to suit ... and children change so much in months they would probably have gone through a border check with ease.
I have seen it said many times, "Why Madeleine, when there are so many street urchins in the world who would hardly be missed, why take the risk of entering the apartment?"
Why this well nurtured, loved little girl stolen from her mother's arms in broad daylight?
I think the lesson from this very fortunately failed kidnap ... is that normal people just do not have a clue as to how the minds and motivations work of people who would steal a child.
PS ... thanks to VIXTE for keeping us informed, I don't think our press are taking much notice of the case.
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Many thanks, Vixte.
No recent updates that I can find. I guess enquiries are still pending.
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Minister suspects child was abducted "to be sold"
Source: Tanjug
BELGRADE -- Nebojsa Stefanovic says it is suspected that the French citizens who last week abducted a child in Belgrade were operating as part of a human trafficking ring.
(http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2015/03/18/11596513015509623558d96945469787_v4big.jpg)
(Tanjug, file)
According to the interior minister, the 2-year-old girl could have been taken in order to be "sold."
The minister told the Pink TV broadcaster on Wednesday that the investigation was developing with "several operative working versions" emerging, and thanked the French police for their cooperation.
Stefanovic also said it would be known "in the coming days" whether the child in question was specifically targeted or chosen randomly.
"The police showed them they should not be doing that in Serbia," the minister said of the kidnappers, and revealed they arrived in the country on March 12, spent much of that day and the followign night in Pancevo, and then headed for Belgrade on Friday, March 13, where they snatched the toddler from her mother while they were walking in the street.
Stefanovic noted that Serbia was "not a high-risk country" when it comes to abductions, but advised parents to "keep an eye on their kids, especially the small ones."
According to the minister, the three suspects, who used stolen Romanian car plates during the kidnapping, made many "illogical statements" while in custody.
The suspects were arrested after a police chase on a highway northwest of Belgrade, when the child was rescued unharmed. A Belgrade court on Monday ordered the French citizens kept in detention for one month.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2015&mm=03&dd=18&nav_id=93521
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Thanks Anna. I can't find a clear view of the entire licence plate. I'm looking for one with the country abbreviation in the blue EU box on the left. I haven't checked, but I can't imagine offhand why Romanian plates would have a large "30" on the right-hand side. They look more like French plates to me at the moment. I could be wrong, though...
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Thanks Anna. I can't find a clear view of the entire licence plate. I'm looking for one with the country abbreviation in the blue EU box on the left. I haven't checked, but I can't imagine offhand why Romanian plates would have a large "30" on the right-hand side. They look more like French plates to me at the moment. I could be wrong, though...
I believe that I read, that they had French plates when they were eventually stopped, but possibly had false plates during the kidnap, Carana.
I will see if I can find that article again
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Not the one but does say French plates as well.
3 French citizens arrested for kidnapping 2-year old Serbian girl print
Published on March 13, 2015 by pmnews · No Comments
Police line logo
Three French citizens were arrested in Serbia Friday after kidnapping a two-year-old girl in the capital Belgrade, prompting a movie-style police chase.
Around noon a man snatched the girl from her mother’s arms on the street and fled in a car driven by a woman, police said.
“We heard a voice screaming ‘my child, my child’ and saw a man and a woman who took away the child speeding off in a car,” a witness told national RTS television channel.
Police used cars and helicopters in a sensational chase for some three hours, eventually managing to stop the vehicle with French number plates after it crashed through a ramp at pay toll some 30 kilometres (18 miles) northwest of the capital, Interior Minister Nebojsa Stefanovic said.
The girl was found unharmed and returned to her parents, the minister said.
“The kidnappers had French passports so we immediately contacted the French police and learnt that the documents were valid and persons were known to the police there as they had committed a number of crimes before,” Stefanovic said.
He said the motive and whether they targeted a particular child was unclear. They had on them the passport of a French child of a similar age.
In a separate statement, the interior ministry said they were suspected to be human traffickers.
If they are tried in Serbia and convicted, they face up to a 15-year jail term.
http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2015/03/13/3-french-citizens-arrested-for-kidnapping-2-year-old-serbian-girl/
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I think the rumour of Romanian plates is false.
I don't see how they would have taken time to change them after the kidnap. They are definitely French plates on the car.
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I think the rumour of Roumanian plates is false.
I don't see how they would have taken time to change them after the kidnap. They are definitely French plates on the car.
They were using French plates when they were caught.
I think it is possible within the 3 hours that the police had to find them and chase them that they could have changed the plates.
If they are seasoned criminals as has been suggested, surely they wouldn’t be daft enough to have their own plates on view to the mother and witnesses during the kidnap?
I tried to enlarge the car at the time of the kidnap(from the video) but not very successfully, I’m afraid. Maybe the Romanian plates were found in the car.
Part of the Article:-
According to the minister, the three suspects, who used stolen Romanian car plates during the kidnapping, made many "illogical statements" while in custody.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2015&mm=03&dd=18&nav_id=93521
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I have my doubts, Anna. One rumour was that they had been spotted coming
in from the direction of Romania at one point... but, as we know, such rumours are often false, possibly based on well-intentioned people trying to help. That may be the origin of the plates issue.
Would they seriously have had time to stop to change plates when witnesses gave the alert immediately?
Why would they have paraded in Romania in a "posh" BMW with local plates? If they had been stopped anywhere in which they had had to give ID, wouldn't French passports with Romanian plates have raised questions?
Why bother to change plates while keeping a prominent Swiss motorway sticker on the windscreen?
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Again, reading elsewhere, has it been confirmed that the alleged child whose passport was found is safe - if she exists?
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I have my doubts, Anna. One rumour was that they had been spotted coming in the direction of Romania at one point... but, as we know, such rumours are often false, possibly based on well-intentioned people trying to help. That may be the origin of the plates issue.
Would they seriously have had time to stop to change plates when witnesses gave the alert immediately?
Why would they have paraded in Romania in a "posh" BMW with local plates? If they had been stopped anywhere in which they had had to give ID, wouldn't French passports with Romanian plates have raised questions?
Why bother to change plates while keeping a prominent Swiss motorway sticker on the windscreen?
I know how unreliable the press can be, Carana, but none of it makes sense at all really. We will have to wait for further news, with more details, I guess.
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I know how unreliable the press can be, Carana, but none of it makes sense at all really. We will have to wait for further news, with more details, I guess.
My previous post should have read from Romania.
Anyway, it seems that there has been a court order to hold them in custody for a month, but it's not clear what the charges actually are. Possibly because no one actually knows what exactly they were up to, but were a threat to the public.
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I am really curious why exactly that child! I wonder whether we would ever know?
I have seen it on a Croatian news channel they are referring to this case by warning parents not to put photos of their children on Facebook, saying 'putting photos of your children on Facebook is same as standing on a street and sharing the same photos with the passers by'
But I am personally not convinced the kidnappers saw the photos of a random child on facebook and then they went to a foreign country that actually has a border control and kidnapped a child.. It is just not logical! There must be something else there!
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My previous post should have read from Romania.
Anyway, it seems that there has been a court order to hold them in custody for a month, but it's not clear what the charges actually are. Possibly because no one actually knows what exactly they were up to, but were a threat to the public.
They are being held, because of the high risk of them fleeing and while more evidence is acquired from france, apparently, according to press reports. They are probably investigating that passport too. If there is a child, I wonder who is caring for her?
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I am really curious why exactly that child! I wonder whether we would ever know?
I have seen it on a Croatian news channel they are referring to this case by warning parents not to put photos of their children on Facebook, saying 'putting photos of your children on Facebook is same as standing on a street and sharing the same photos with the passers by'
Very wise advice, Vixte.....In any country.
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They are being held, because of the high risk of them fleeing and while more evidence is acquired from france, apparently, according to press reports. They are probably investigating that passport too. If there is a child, I wonder who is caring for her?
I'm wondering the same thing, Vixte. Reports seem to vary. Does this French child exist? If so, who has been looking after her?
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What's this? It looks like the car on a ferry.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2015&mm=03&dd=19&nav_id=93542
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To a certain extent, the content of that article sounds like one of those "we shall not be defeated" pieces. However, Serbia does appear to have been on the ball in terms of finding apparently relevant CCTV footage to back trace their movements.
I know that CCTV can appear to be Big-Brother land, but if it's used appropriately (and irrelevant kiss-and-tell footage isn't sold to tabloids), then it would seem to be a major asset in crime investigation.
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What's this? It looks like the car on a ferry.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2015&mm=03&dd=19&nav_id=93542
That video is amazing, Carana, Thanks.
They have managed to follow them all the way from, (wherever) to the kidnap site. I wonder if our police could do as well?
Fantastic job they have done in this case. They should all be very proud of their achievement.
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I'm wondering the same thing, Vixte. Reports seem to vary. Does this French child exist? If so, who has been looking after her?
Thanks for the video, Carana.
I'm with you and Vixte on this, I think the whole scenario runs very deep. I hope international police co-operation can get to the root of it all.
The Police action was superb ... and I think Serbia has sent a zero tolerance message to would be kidnappers.
I must admit I still can't get my head round it at all ... thanks for all the updates as there are still no reports about this incident at all on our news.
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It was supposedly the man who grabbed the child, while the older woman drove (unconfirmed).
A few potentially interesting details on that video clip.
It looks to me like a ferry crossing of some kind or possibly the entrance to a major fee-paying tunnel for which there is a wait (two dogs let out for a play in the background). * ETA: It could just be a motorway toll with a traffic jam.
There is some kind of control kiosk / booth off camera and the woman has to get out. Nothing unusual about that as the car is parked too far away to simply hand any money / tickets over through the window. However, the man (driving) has to get out as does the back seat occupant (presumably the young woman). That seems to me as if it's an international crossing of some kind otherwise why would all occupants have to get out and go to the booth?
The licence plate (though fuzzy) appears to be the same as the one on the car when they got caught. If so, it would be the French one and the Romanian plate rumour seems even less likely. That could be either true for some unexplained reason, a genuine mistake or a bit of anti-Romanian sentiment poking through.
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Another curious detail is that the sticker on the driver's side of the windscreen does indeed appear to be a Swiss motorway sticker. A bit of googling later... it could well be a 2014 sticker as it's red. Otherwise, the last red one that I can find dates back to 2006.
Not sure that I can attach more than one pic here at a time... but will see.
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Now, if it is correct that that is a 2014 Swiss motorway sticker... then that car either transited through Swiss motorways at some point before March 2015, or it was purchased and stuck on it to make it appear to be the case. &%+((£
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Doesn't this look like it?
(http://www.automobile-club.org/img/Boutique/VS14_BIG.jpg)
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Anyone think they might have abducted her to keep for themselves?
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Anyone think they might have abducted her to keep for themselves?
I am wondering why her mother wasn't at the reunion.
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Anyone think they might have abducted her to keep for themselves?
Weird things do happen... but I can't quite fathom why a family (if indeed it is a family) would go all the way from the south of France to Belgrade to suddenly decide to grab a child off the street. The police appear to be still trying to work out whether the child in question was a specific target or a random one.
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I am wondering why her mother wasn't at the reunion.
According to one report, she was injured when she tried to latch onto the car and either fell off or was thrown off it. She could have still been in medical care at that point.
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I am wondering why her mother wasn't at the reunion.
I believe(according to press reports, which is all we have to go on) that the Mother was injured trying to stop the car and get her baby out, Her fingers were broken too, so possibly at the hospital, when the father was informed that they were found or else he was in a car with the police for identification of the child. The mother would also have been in a very distressed state after the abduction.
Better now that they are all back as a family. ?{)(**
She will be nervous of going out with her child, though.
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The average 2 year old can normally speak in short sentences & understands much of what is said to them. Why would a French (or Spanish) speaking person opt to try & pass off a Serbian-speaking child in a paternity case?
Then there is the issue of how the abductors knew exactly where to find the child....and when the mother was going out shopping.....that's not random.
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The average 2 year old can normally speak in short sentences & understands much of what is said to them. Why would a French (or Spanish) speaking person opt to try & pass off a Serbian-speaking child in a paternity case?
Then there is the issue of how the abductors knew exactly where to find the child....and when the mother was going out shopping.....that's not random.
This "paternity suit" excuse seems somewhat implausible.
I'm not sure if the kidnapping could have been random or not...
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Need Vixte... ;)
If the images shown are from Serbian cctv, where would this tunnel / ferry / toll place be?
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If they were stealing the child for themselves then they might have thought to to get as far as possible from where they lived while still able to drive there.
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17:16 18. March 2015.
HERE'S HOW WE KIDNAPPED SERBIAN GIRL: The French woman told the scary details of the case that shook Serbia
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- It is all Sebastijan's fault. He even took my granddaughter's passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins - said Sandrin Branshi at her hearing
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/13/Otmica-dete-311-620x350.jpg)
Foto: Facebook/Prenković Damir
Sandrin Aleksija Gorin Branshi (49) who was suspected of kidnapping a two-year-old barely accepted to answer the prosecutor’s questions, blaming her husband, Sebastijan Michael Branshi (46)Sandrin told how Sebastijan thought of everything and he only told her about the plan when they were on their way to Romania.
– It is all Sebastijan’s fault. He even took my granddaughter’s passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins – said Branshi
She explained that the divorce litigation is underway between her daughter and her husband so Sebastian tried to help her daughter win the custody over child.
– When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion. My daughter and I tried to talk him out of it but we failed – said Sandrin.
According to her testimony, three of them entered Serbia at the 12th of March, over the Vatin border crossing, near Vrsac. After they spent the night in Pancevo, they headed for Belgrade.
- We were driving around the city and saw the child that looked like my granddaughter. Sebastijan snatched her from her mother and dragged her into the car. We started our escape but when we saw that we were chased, we wanted to leave the child next to the road and carry on – claims Sandrin Branshi.
Investigation showed that the kidnappers didn’t have any help in Serbia, as well as that their relatives in Vers Pont Du Grad in France didn’t have any idea of their intentions.
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/14/Otmica-otmicari-dete1.jpg)
Printskrin: RTS, N1, MUP Srbije
French police contacted Kristel Eje’s husband who confirmed that they were divorcing, as well as the struggle over custody is underway. Their relations are confusing and it will take some time to clear everything out.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1483445-heres-how-we-kidnapped-serbian-girl-the-french-woman-told-the-scary-details-of-the-case-that-shook-serbia
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17:16 18. March 2015.
HERE'S HOW WE KIDNAPPED SERBIAN GIRL: The French woman told the scary details of the case that shook Serbia
0
- It is all Sebastijan's fault. He even took my granddaughter's passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins - said Sandrin Branshi at her hearing
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/13/Otmica-dete-311-620x350.jpg)
Foto: Facebook/Prenković Damir
Sandrin Aleksija Gorin Branshi (49) who was suspected of kidnapping a two-year-old barely accepted to answer the prosecutor’s questions, blaming her husband, Sebastijan Michael Branshi (46)Sandrin told how Sebastijan thought of everything and he only told her about the plan when they were on their way to Romania.
– It is all Sebastijan’s fault. He even took my granddaughter’s passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins – said Branshi
She explained that the divorce litigation is underway between her daughter and her husband so Sebastian tried to help her daughter win the custody over child.
– When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion. My daughter and I tried to talk him out of it but we failed – said Sandrin.
According to her testimony, three of them entered Serbia at the 12th of March, over the Vatin border crossing, near Vrsac. After they spent the night in Pancevo, they headed for Belgrade.
- We were driving around the city and saw the child that looked like my granddaughter. Sebastijan snatched her from her mother and dragged her into the car. We started our escape but when we saw that we were chased, we wanted to leave the child next to the road and carry on – claims Sandrin Branshi.
Investigation showed that the kidnappers didn’t have any help in Serbia, as well as that their relatives in Vers Pont Du Grad in France didn’t have any idea of their intentions.
(http://cdn.tf.rs/2015/03/14/Otmica-otmicari-dete1.jpg)
Printskrin: RTS, N1, MUP Srbije
French police contacted Kristel Eje’s husband who confirmed that they were divorcing, as well as the struggle over custody is underway. Their relations are confusing and it will take some time to clear everything out.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1483445-heres-how-we-kidnapped-serbian-girl-the-french-woman-told-the-scary-details-of-the-case-that-shook-serbia
There is a husband and there is an ongoing divorce and custody battle ... as for the rest ?? How could they possibly have thought that stealing someone else's child was a solution to anything?
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There is a husband and there is an ongoing divorce and custody battle ... as for the rest ?? How could they possibly have thought that stealing someone else's child was a solution to anything?
Really daft if you ask me and they are known offenders in France.
At the end of the day, what ever their reason for abduction, it is punishable with imprisonment.
They were going to chuck the baby out on the side of the road, to save their own necks.............................They deserve all, that I hope that they get.
And the women who say they didn't know...what rubbish...Why would he take her wardrobe and only the mother of the French child could have given him the passport. So planned well ahead. IMO
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I am wondering why her mother wasn't at the reunion.
I think she was in hospital. She jumped on the car as they drove with her child and her fingers were injured.
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What's this? It looks like the car on a ferry.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2015&mm=03&dd=19&nav_id=93542
It is not the ferry. It is a border crossing Vatin in between Romania and Serbia.
But what is not clear to me is why they were in Romania, because to get to Romania from France they have to pass Serbia. And this was on their way back to France.
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It is not the ferry. It is a border crossing Vatin in between Romania and Serbia.
But what is not clear to me is why they were in Romania, because to get to Romania from France they have to pass Serbia. And this was on their way back to France.
There was some mention of relatives in Romania, I think.
So they had already crossed Serbia into Romania and were returning to France via Serbia when they abducted the little girl.
I think this runs much deeper than a custody case ... I wonder how far the authorities will get in finding out the true story.
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It is not the ferry. It is a border crossing Vatin in between Romania and Serbia.
But what is not clear to me is why they were in Romania, because to get to Romania from France they have to pass Serbia. And this was on their way back to France.
It is all Sebastijan’s fault. He even took my granddaughter’s passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins – said Branshi
She explained that the divorce litigation is underway between her daughter and her husband so Sebastian tried to help her daughter win the custody over child.
– When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion. My daughter and I tried to talk him out of it but we failed – said Sandrin.
According to her testimony, three of them entered Serbia at the 12th of March, over the Vatin border crossing, near Vrsac. After they spent the night in Pancevo, they headed for Belgrade.
- We were driving around the city and saw the child that looked like my granddaughter. Sebastijan snatched her from her mother and dragged her into the car. We started our escape but when we saw that we were chased, we wanted to leave the child next to the road and carry on – claims Sandrin Branshi.
Investigation showed that the kidnappers didn’t have any help in Serbia, as well as that their relatives in Vers Pont Du Grad in France didn’t have any idea of their intentions.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1483445-heres-how-we-kidnapped-serbian-girl-the-french-woman-told-the-scary-details-of-the-case-that-shook-serbia
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There was some mention of relatives in Romania, I think.
So they had already crossed Serbia into Romania and were returning to France via Serbia when they abducted the little girl.
I think this runs much deeper than a custody case ... I wonder how far the authorities will get in finding out the true story.
I am really curious about the French side of the story. Maybe the father of the little French girl, their granddaughter, was in all of this with them and has confirmed the story as they previously arranged. I wonder if truth is ever is going to be published?
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It is all Sebastijan’s fault. He even took my granddaughter’s passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins – said Branshi
She explained that the divorce litigation is underway between her daughter and her husband so Sebastian tried to help her daughter win the custody over child.
– When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion. My daughter and I tried to talk him out of it but we failed – said Sandrin.
According to her testimony, three of them entered Serbia at the 12th of March, over the Vatin border crossing, near Vrsac. After they spent the night in Pancevo, they headed for Belgrade.
- We were driving around the city and saw the child that looked like my granddaughter. Sebastijan snatched her from her mother and dragged her into the car. We started our escape but when we saw that we were chased, we wanted to leave the child next to the road and carry on – claims Sandrin Branshi.
Investigation showed that the kidnappers didn’t have any help in Serbia, as well as that their relatives in Vers Pont Du Grad in France didn’t have any idea of their intentions.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1483445-heres-how-we-kidnapped-serbian-girl-the-french-woman-told-the-scary-details-of-the-case-that-shook-serbia
Thank you, Anna. Now is clearer. I also notice the Facebook photo the journalist had found.
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It is all Sebastijan’s fault. He even took my granddaughter’s passport and wardrobe. he told us that he intended to kidnap some girl that looked like our granddaughter only when we were on our way to Romania, to his cousins – said Branshi
She explained that the divorce litigation is underway between her daughter and her husband so Sebastian tried to help her daughter win the custody over child.
– When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion. My daughter and I tried to talk him out of it but we failed – said Sandrin.
According to her testimony, three of them entered Serbia at the 12th of March, over the Vatin border crossing, near Vrsac. After they spent the night in Pancevo, they headed for Belgrade.
- We were driving around the city and saw the child that looked like my granddaughter. Sebastijan snatched her from her mother and dragged her into the car. We started our escape but when we saw that we were chased, we wanted to leave the child next to the road and carry on – claims Sandrin Branshi.
Investigation showed that the kidnappers didn’t have any help in Serbia, as well as that their relatives in Vers Pont Du Grad in France didn’t have any idea of their intentions.
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1483445-heres-how-we-kidnapped-serbian-girl-the-french-woman-told-the-scary-details-of-the-case-that-shook-serbia
"When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion."
Had their original intention been to abduct a child in Romania?
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This is a fairly one sided conversation.
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This is a fairly one sided conversation.
Any one is very welcome to join in ... you just have.
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Any one is very welcome to join in ... you just have.
Not exactly a point for discussion.
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Not exactly a point for discussion.
You've lost me there I'm afraid. I haven't a clue what you are on about.
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"When we arrived to Romania we noticed that children are of a bit darker complexion."
Had their original intention been to abduct a child in Romania?
It would appear so, Brietta.
Another link, badly translated but more photographs.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd3_1426536275
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It would appear so, Brietta.
Another link, badly translated but more photographs.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd3_1426536275
The translation made me smile, Anna, I loved the description of the inspectors allowing the wee one to play 'Pepa Pig' on their computer (at least I think that is what it said).
Having had a good look at the photograph of Sandrin Goran, I don't think she looks like a woman who could be prevailed upon to do anything she didn't want to. I certainly wouldn't like to try.
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The translation made me smile, Anna, I loved the description of the inspectors allowing the wee one to play 'Pepa Pig' on their computer (at least I think that is what it said).
Having had a good look at the photograph of Sandrin Goran, I don't think she looks like a woman who could be prevailed upon to do anything she didn't want to. I certainly wouldn't like to try.
@)(++(*
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I think the rumour of Romanian plates is false.
I don't see how they would have taken time to change them after the kidnap. They are definitely French plates on the car.
I think I have seen the report that during the chase they stopped somewhere and changed the plates.
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I think I have seen the report that during the chase they stopped somewhere and changed the plates.
Hi Vixte, trying to catch up and I have lots of questions.
If they had stopped to change plates, that would have been a very risky time, wouldn't it?
Has it been verified that the BMW actually belonged to them?
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Hi Vixte, trying to catch up and I have lots of questions.
If they had stopped to change plates, that would have been a very risky time, wouldn't it?
Has it been verified that the BMW actually belonged to them?
http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476891-otmicari-menjali-tablice-ovako-su-planirali-da-pobegnu-srpskoj-policiji
Here is the link to the article saying they stopped at a petrol station and changed the number plates. Then after that they changed their direction towards Zagreb.. this means towards European Union.
So basically they used Romanian plates when kidnapping the child. That means they planned it all..
Thinking about this case I cannot stop thinking about the moments when Madeleine disappeared.
There were no witnesses, although the potentially there could have been witnesses who were not aware they were witnesses. There were no car chases and no border control checks.
And look how here they nearly got away with the child.. even though the police knew where they were and were chasing them..
What kind of motivation would lead someone to get away with a child? I don't think the motivation has been established yet in Madeleine's case..but by watching cases like this unfold you get closer to the state of mind of these people.
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http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476891-otmicari-menjali-tablice-ovako-su-planirali-da-pobegnu-srpskoj-policiji
Here is the link to the article saying they stopped at a petrol station and changed the number plates. Then after that they changed their direction towards Zagreb.. this means towards European Union.
So basically they used Romanian plates when kidnapping the child. That means they planned it all..
Thinking about this case I cannot stop thinking about the moments when Madeleine disappeared.
There were no witnesses, although the potentially there could have been witnesses who were not aware they were witnesses. There were no car chases and no border control checks.
And look how here they nearly got away with the child.. even though the police knew where they were and were chasing them..
What kind of motivation would lead someone to get away with a child? I don't think the motivation has been established yet in Madeleine's case..but by watching cases like this unfold you get closer to the state of mind of these people.
If the police hadn't acted immediately and perhaps if they hadn't stopped to change number plates - if one changed the front and one the back plate it wouldn't have taken too long - they might have got away with it.
I will be surprised if the car can be traced to them and there would probably not have been clear CCTV images of them, so once across the border they might never have been found.
They probably hadn't taken the immediate deployment of a helicopter into account which I think would have been able to monitor the vehicle from the air. The police had the advantage of knowing the child had been taken in a car and had a description of the vehicle and I saw in one of the links you posted that they were traffic cops.
They were determined to abduct either that or any other child.
The presence of the child's mother was no deterrent, in the event she was injured but I think these people ran the risk of killing her had she been dragged while trying to stop the car.
In comparison with Madeleine's case I think this abduction illustrates that if Madeleine had been targeted she would have been taken on the 3rd/4th May whatever the circumstances and whether or not her parents were in the apartment at the time. The absence of her parents only lessened the risk.
Normal people would never in 100 years be able to work out what motivates people like that.
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I wonder if there had been no witnesses in this case and someone to alert the Police, if this Mum would have been suspect also.
It is a strange world with too many strange people IMO.
More importance in personal, Financial gain than the life of others.
Where mum was walking with baby and shopping when attacked.......shopping on the road.
https://youtu.be/rM7mRKK1R0I
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Appreciation for the job done, goes a long way. These guys really deserve it.
DECORATIONS Stefanovic awarded police officers for the arrest the kidnappers
With this action, Stefanovic said, we were able to prevent the tragedy and showed that Serbia will not tolerate those who try to steal our children.
(http://www.blic.rs/data/images/2015-03-18/586946_nebojsa-stefanovic-nagrada-foto-mup_f.jpg?ver=1426679311)
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Hronika/543294/ODLIKOVANJA-Stefanovic-nagradio-policajce-za-hapsenje-otmicara-male-Mase
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Poor Dad went through hell
http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476326-gde-mi-je-dete-otac-otete-devojcice-u-ocaju-cekao-vesti-o-n[Name removed]
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Appreciation for the job done, goes a long way. These guys really deserve it.
DECORATIONS Stefanovic awarded police officers for the arrest the kidnappers
(http://www.blic.rs/data/images/2015-03-18/586946_nebojsa-stefanovic-nagrada-foto-mup_f.jpg?ver=1426679311)
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Hronika/543294/ODLIKOVANJA-Stefanovic-nagradio-policajce-za-hapsenje-otmicara-male-Mase
-----------------------------------
Poor Dad went through hell
http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476326-gde-mi-je-dete-otac-otete-devojcice-u-ocaju-cekao-vesti-o-n[Name removed]
I can see in comments readers are very angry that the policemen were given awards.. They are all saying: this was their job, this was in their job description, they were just doing their jobs.. should you award anyone doing their job properly.. etc etc..
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Appreciation for the job done, goes a long way. These guys really deserve it.
DECORATIONS Stefanovic awarded police officers for the arrest the kidnappers
(http://www.blic.rs/data/images/2015-03-18/586946_nebojsa-stefanovic-nagrada-foto-mup_f.jpg?ver=1426679311)
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Hronika/543294/ODLIKOVANJA-Stefanovic-nagradio-policajce-za-hapsenje-otmicara-male-Mase
-----------------------------------
Poor Dad went through hell
http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476326-gde-mi-je-dete-otac-otete-devojcice-u-ocaju-cekao-vesti-o-n[Name removed]
If ever recognition was deserved these officers most certainly earned it ... they did an absolutely brilliant job, their training must be second to none.
I think those parents' lives will be changed forever, Anna.
Mother and child must have been nearly at their doorstep when the little girl was snatched ... it will be a long time before she feels safe to venture out with confidence. What happened is unthinkable.
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I can see in comments readers are very angry that the policemen were given awards.. They are all saying: this was their job, this was in their job description, they were just doing their jobs.. should you award anyone doing their job properly.. etc etc..
True, they were only doing their job ... but they did it absolutely brilliantly and in exemplary fashion. Soldiers only do their jobs too but if they do something spectacular they get a medal.
If something had gone disastrously wrong when they were rescuing the child, would the readers' comments just have shrugged that off too?
I'm sorry they feel like that.
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If ever recognition was deserved these officers most certainly earned it ... they did an absolutely brilliant job, their training must be second to none.
I think those parents' lives will be changed forever, Anna.
Mother and child must have been nearly at their doorstep when the little girl was snatched ... it will be a long time before she feels safe to venture out with confidence. What happened is unthinkable.
I believe they may be taken for granted, by the people they serve so well, who some to think they don't deserve a medal.
The action taken, can only encourage their police to be the best possible. A lesson that could help other countries IMO
We have a very happy reunited family, but they will always be wary with their children outdoors.
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Here is the new article. They have an interview with the French baby's father but I am not sure what would be his name as in Serbia they write names the way they pronounce them..
The baby's father has confirmed his request for a DNA analysis but he is also saying he has no clue where the child is.
http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/hronika/aktuelno.291.html:539568-Bivsi-suprug-kidnaperke-Ne-cudi-me-sto-su-oteli-Masu
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Here is the new article. They have an interview with the French baby's father but I am not sure what would be his name as in Serbia they write names the way they pronounce them..
The baby's father has confirmed his request for a DNA analysis but he is also saying he has no clue where the child is.
http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/hronika/aktuelno.291.html:539568-Bivsi-suprug-kidnaperke-Ne-cudi-me-sto-su-oteli-Masu
I wonder if they dropped the little one off with relatives in Romania? That may have been the purpose of their visit.
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In the comments section, a girl said she knew the father (Axel) who was in a panic trying to find out where his daughter (Ambre) was. The last comment she made was that she'd been found and was safe... but it's not clear which child she was talking about, I presume she meant little Ambre.
http://www.midilibre.fr/2015/03/15/des-gardois-a-l-origine-du-rapt-d-une-fillette-en-serbie,1136072.php
The French child's mother is known as Emmeline and her mother's name is Alexia (48). Emmeline's father (50) is a lorry driver and his wife works for a kindergarten. The village is Vers-Pont-du-Gard. They could often be heard arguing and had a few problems with their neighbours, but seemingly nothing out of the ordinary.
Emmeline and Axel had attempted a reconciliation, but it didn't work out (obviously).
http://www.objectifgard.com/2015/03/18/vers-pont-du-gard-une-famille-accusee-dun-rapt-en-serbie/
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In the comments section, a girl said she knew the father (Axel) who was in a panic trying to find out where his daughter (Ambre) was. The last comment she made was that she'd been found and was safe... but it's not clear which child she was talking about, I presume she meant little Ambre.
http://www.midilibre.fr/2015/03/15/des-gardois-a-l-origine-du-rapt-d-une-fillette-en-serbie,1136072.php
The French child's mother is known as Emmeline and her mother's name is Alexia (48). Emmeline's father (50) is a lorry driver and his wife works for a kindergarten. The village is Vers-Pont-du-Gard. They could often be heard arguing and had a few problems with their neighbours, but seemingly nothing out of the ordinary.
Emmeline and Axel had attempted a reconciliation, but it didn't work out (obviously).
http://www.objectifgard.com/2015/03/18/vers-pont-du-gard-une-famille-accusee-dun-rapt-en-serbie/
From reading that it seems there may be an element of truth in their 'cover' story.
Had they even thought far enough forward to have a plan for the Serbian child once the custody issue was settled?
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From reading that it seems there may be an element of truth in their 'cover' story.
Had they even thought far enough forward to have a plan for the Serbian child once the custody issue was settled?
One neighbour said she wasn't surprised they'd bungled it - they're not the brightest people in the world in her view. So... I'm wondering whether they actually believed that their crackpot plan could have worked.
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One neighbour said she wasn't surprised they'd bungled it - they're not the brightest people in the world in her view. So... I'm wondering whether they actually believed that their crackpot plan could have worked.
I think it illustrates that there are many complex issues going on in the background of a crime such as this ... who in their wildest dreams would have come up with such a scenario?
They treated the little Serbian girl as a commodity and I shudder as to what their next step might have been when she had served her purpose. Words fail me!
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I haven't found any official confirmation that the little French girl really is safe, nor where she is...
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I haven't found any official confirmation that the little French girl really is safe, nor where she is...
Here's hoping she will be found safe and well, Carana.
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Not sure if this is connected to the subject of this thread or not.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcorreia%2Bda%2Bmanha%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D669
Exchange baby by BMW and 8000 euros Trafficking network judged in France.
Ten people accused of trafficking of babies began yesterday on trial in Marseille, France. Among the defendants are a couple - Carmen and Mike Gorgan - accused of having bought the baby a Romanian woman in exchange for 8000 euros and a BMW. Companion and brother of the woman are accused of complicity.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3028764/Roma-gang-sold-newborn-baby-6-500-BMW-French-court-hears-accused-say-child-gift.html
More on the same story.
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Not sure if this is connected to the subject of this thread or not.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcorreia%2Bda%2Bmanha%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D669
Exchange baby by BMW and 8000 euros Trafficking network judged in France.
Ten people accused of trafficking of babies began yesterday on trial in Marseille, France. Among the defendants are a couple - Carmen and Mike Gorgan - accused of having bought the baby a Romanian woman in exchange for 8000 euros and a BMW. Companion and brother of the woman are accused of complicity.
There is a French connection ... as there was with the abduction in Serbia.
There is a Romanian connection ... the abductors of the Serbian child had been in Romania ... why we don't know.
Very disturbing that ten people have gone on trial accused of trafficking babies ... yet people pretend such a thing just doesn't happen ... and as long as society is encouraged in denial, human trafficking will continue undisturbed.
... and isn't a human life cheap at 8000 euros and a BMW.
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There is a French connection ... as there was with the abduction in Serbia.
There is a Romanian connection ... the abductors of the Serbian child had been in Romania ... why we don't know.
Very disturbing that ten people have gone on trial accused of trafficking babies ... yet people pretend such a thing just doesn't happen ... and as long as society is encouraged in denial, human trafficking will continue undisturbed.
... and isn't a human life cheap at 8000 euros and a BMW.
If trafficking babies was the aim why wasn't Amelie or Sean taken instead ?
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Kidnappers engaged in human trafficking in France
Today
Society
Published: Mar 22, 2015 at 9:23 am
Modified: Mar 22, 2015 at 9:23 am
0
BELGRADE – Three kidnappers who had taken Masa Prenkovic (2) were part of a criminal clan engaged in human trafficking in France, “Blic” reported.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
Kristel Emelin Eje (26), her mother Alexia Sandrin Goren Bransu (50) and stepfather Sebastian Bransu (46) came to Serbia on March 12 to kidnap a child who will later be given to an organized group, a source close to the investigation told the daily.
“The investigation progresses thanks to the cooperation of the French and Serbian police and international help. The kidnappers wanted to sell the child and that was arranged with a criminal clan dealing with human trafficking. It has not yet been determined whether they received a task to kidnap the child which they were only supposed to carry out, or they arranged to kidnap the child, and later sell it to the group. In both cases, Serbian and French police have determined that their alibi with DNA analysis was a prepared lie,” said the source.
As suspected, the kidnappers came to Serbia with prepared alibi and documents for the child they planned to abduct.
“In Romania, where they resided before Serbia, they could not carry out the kidnapping because the children were not similar to a child whose documents they had. That they randomly chose a child they will abduct witness videos recorded by security cameras in Belgrade, showing them roaming Belgrade and stopping at many places. As soon as they saw a child that resembles the one whose photo was in the passport they had, they carried out the kidnapping,” said the source for “Blic”.
Minister of Police, Nebojsa Stefanovic, confirmed at a press conference that the kidnapping of the girl was part of an organized human trafficking.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/03/kidnappers-engaged-in-human-trafficking-in-france/
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Kidnappers engaged in human trafficking in France
Today
Society
Published: Mar 22, 2015 at 9:23 am
Modified: Mar 22, 2015 at 9:23 am
0
BELGRADE – Three kidnappers who had taken Masa Prenkovic (2) were part of a criminal clan engaged in human trafficking in France, “Blic” reported.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
Kristel Emelin Eje (26), her mother Alexia Sandrin Goren Bransu (50) and stepfather Sebastian Bransu (46) came to Serbia on March 12 to kidnap a child who will later be given to an organized group, a source close to the investigation told the daily.
“The investigation progresses thanks to the cooperation of the French and Serbian police and international help. The kidnappers wanted to sell the child and that was arranged with a criminal clan dealing with human trafficking. It has not yet been determined whether they received a task to kidnap the child which they were only supposed to carry out, or they arranged to kidnap the child, and later sell it to the group. In both cases, Serbian and French police have determined that their alibi with DNA analysis was a prepared lie,” said the source.
As suspected, the kidnappers came to Serbia with prepared alibi and documents for the child they planned to abduct.
“In Romania, where they resided before Serbia, they could not carry out the kidnapping because the children were not similar to a child whose documents they had. That they randomly chose a child they will abduct witness videos recorded by security cameras in Belgrade, showing them roaming Belgrade and stopping at many places. As soon as they saw a child that resembles the one whose photo was in the passport they had, they carried out the kidnapping,” said the source for “Blic”.
Minister of Police, Nebojsa Stefanovic, confirmed at a press conference that the kidnapping of the girl was part of an organized human trafficking.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/03/kidnappers-engaged-in-human-trafficking-in-france/
It's all so sad and that little girl was very very fortunate her kidnappers weren't exactly the most proficient.
If that's the MO - match the child to the documents - perhaps that provides the explanation as to why Madeleine was selected, rather than her siblings or any of the other unattended children - in an abduction scenario.
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It's all so sad and that little girl was very very fortunate her kidnappers weren't exactly the most proficient.
If that's the MO - match the child to the documents - perhaps that provides the explanation as to why Madeleine was selected, rather than her siblings or any of the other unattended children - in an abduction scenario.
Matching a child to a passport is what I have thought many times too, in the Maddie case, Misty.
When questioned the abductor could provide proof of a child, who resembled the child missing...alibi sorted!
Who interviewed or sighted had a child who looked like Maddie?
Back to this case of the French kidnappers....The father of the child on the passport, must also have been in on this plot with the DNA rubbish.
I am so glad that they have been caught, before any more little ones were abducted by them.
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Matching a child to a passport is what I have thought many times too, in the Maddie case, Misty.
When questioned the abductor could provide proof of a child, who resembled the child missing...alibi sorted!
Who interviewed or sighted had a child who looked like Maddie?
Back to this case of the French kidnappers....The father of the child on the passport, must also have been in on this plot with the DNA rubbish.
I am so glad that they have been caught, before any more little ones were abducted by them.
There is an interesting sentence in one of the witness statements regarding a passport.
Sadly, although these 3 have been caught, others will have already been recruited to take their place. Rather like the drug traffickers & their mules, only the merchandise is of value and young children must be premium goods.
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It's all so sad and that little girl was very very fortunate her kidnappers weren't exactly the most proficient.
If that's the MO - match the child to the documents - perhaps that provides the explanation as to why Madeleine was selected, rather than her siblings or any of the other unattended children - in an abduction scenario.
Maybe it lends a little weight to the doubters' mad theories about clones and non-existent children, although not quite in the way they conceived.
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I'm father's of the girl who is a french kidnapper and ex-husband also.excuse my bad english because I'm french.
I can't say all about this subject but I can say the story began in france beetween 2 families, 2 years ago.
And they were in front of a problem and they haven't found any solution.Just I can say they are not gangsters.
And they were in detress, just the solution they found was to false the paternity test.
I know it's impossible because the mother also pass the test, but they forgot this.It's a supid idea,they are stupids.
And I think the true is in their phones . just a thing, the serbian parents speak french, and in serbia no more people speaks french. What do you think about this? I' waiting for you. Thanks.
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Maybe it lends a little weight to the doubters' mad theories about clones and non-existent children, although not quite in the way they conceived.
I don't believe in mad theories anymore than I believe in the zero evidence abduction.
How about you ?
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I'm father's of the girl who is a french kidnapper and ex-husband also.excuse my bad english because I'm french.
I can't say all about this subject but I can say the story began in france beetween 2 families, 2 years ago.
And they were in front of a problem and they haven't found any solution.Just I can say they are not gangsters.
And they were in detress, just the solution they found was to false the paternity test.
I know it's impossible because the mother also pass the test, but they forgot this.It's a supid idea,they are stupids.
And I think the true is in their phones . just a thing, the serbian parents speak french, and in serbia no more people speaks french. What do you think about this? I' waiting for you. Thanks.
Thank you for getting in touch with us, Michel, but I found the message hard to understand. If you wish to post it again in French, we can interpret it.
It seems that you are saying that you are the ex husband of the younger woman who kidnapped the child and you share a daughter who is in france.
Where is the child now?
The Serbian parents speaking French(which many people speak) What relevance do you think this has?
Do you not believe that they were going to sell the Serbian child?
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I'm father's of the girl who is a french kidnapper and ex-husband also.excuse my bad english because I'm french.
I can't say all about this subject but I can say the story began in france beetween 2 families, 2 years ago.
And they were in front of a problem and they haven't found any solution.Just I can say they are not gangsters.
And they were in detress, just the solution they found was to false the paternity test.
I know it's impossible because the mother also pass the test, but they forgot this.It's a supid idea,they are stupids.
And I think the true is in their phones . just a thing, the serbian parents speak french, and in serbia no more people speaks french. What do you think about this? I' waiting for you. Thanks.
Thank you, Michel. I understand about the DNA Test because as you say, the child's mother will have had to take this. I think this has already been mentioned here.
Stupid indeed. But mainly we are pleased that the child is safe and that The Police did such a good job.
But did these fools not think about the danger to the child that they abducted?
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I'm father's of the girl who is a french kidnapper and ex-husband also.excuse my bad english because I'm french.
I can't say all about this subject but I can say the story began in france beetween 2 families, 2 years ago.
And they were in front of a problem and they haven't found any solution.Just I can say they are not gangsters.
And they were in detress, just the solution they found was to false the paternity test.
I know it's impossible because the mother also pass the test, but they forgot this.It's a supid idea,they are stupids.
And I think the true is in their phones . just a thing, the serbian parents speak french, and in serbia no more people speaks french. What do you think about this? I' waiting for you. Thanks.
Who do you mean? The parents of the Serbian child who was apparently abducted? Or do you mean someone else? What makes you think that they understood / were able to communicate in French?
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I think Michel is the father of the young woman who was arrested, and the ex husband of the other woman who was arrested. Therefor the grandfather of the French child.
Michel is in some distress because he believes that these people are not part of a child abduction gang, although he had no idea of their intentions.
I think we should try to be a bit kind.
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Hopefully Michel will tell us a bit more about what has and is happening, so that we can form an opinion on what this is all about.
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My main question is: are the two little girls safe? The rest can wait...
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My main question is: are the two little girls safe? The rest can wait...
Yes, they are both safe.
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I don't think that the three who were arrested have been tried yet, so are probably awaiting trial in Serbia, somewhere.
I wonder if they will be sent to France to serve their sentence or be kept there? Just thinking of the little one left in France.
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I don't think that the three who were arrested have been tried yet, so are probably awaiting trial in Serbia, somewhere.
I wonder if they will be sent to France to serve their sentence or be kept there? Just thinking of the little one left in France.
No idea. Thankfully no one died. Normally, trials and sentences are carried out where the crime took place, but there may be exceptions, and I expect that that would depend on the conclusions of 10 billion pages of legalese.
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No idea. Thankfully no one died. Normally, trials and sentences are carried out where the crime took place, but there may be exceptions, and I expect that that would depend on the conclusions of 10 billion pages of legalese.
There is a lot of red tape to go through, I know. So a lot of waiting to come yet.
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(http://)no anna, I'm not the father of the young french baby, i'm his grand-father.The girl aged 26 years is my daughter and her mother is my ex_ wife. The two are now in prison in serbia.I don't know where, near belgrade, it seems.
The french little baby is her birthday today, she is today 2 .A poor birthday,whithout a mother and family.
And I choose this day for her to speak about.I can't speak about the problem in serbia because I was in france but I'm the only person who knows the 2 kidnappers. So, I don't know where is the french little girl I know only she is in a family ( famille d'accueil en francais) in south of france. In France, also there are a girl 22 years old, a girl 13 years old
(they are my daughters also) and a boy 13 years old ( son of the male kidnapper) and a baby 2 years old (today).
These children need also their parents in france, even if is to see in prison but in france.
on the picture you can see my daughter 26 years old ( you can recognize fair hairs on the pictures on the arrest) and the baby with her it's the real frebch baby 2 years old (yesterday was her birthday)
As you can see that I say is true
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Hello Michel
Try contacting the French consulate in Belgrade. They may be able to explain more to you.
http://www.ambafrance-srb.org/Equipe-contacts-et-horaires-1884
http://www.ambafrance-srb.org/Liste-des-contacts-a-l-Ambassade-2379
Aide aux détenus à l’étranger:
http://www.ambafrance-srb.org/Conseils-aux-Francais-en
http://www.cepprobation.org/page/97
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I hope your little granddaughter has as happy a birthday as possible in the circumstances.
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Thanks for that information, Carana. It might help.
And yes, a happy birthday to that little girl.
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(http://)no anna, I'm not the father of the young french baby, i'm his grand-father.The girl aged 26 years is my daughter and her mother is my ex_ wife. The two are now in prison in serbia.I don't know where, near belgrade, it seems.
The french little baby is her birthday today, she is today 2 .A poor birthday,whithout a mother and family.
And I choose this day for her to speak about.I can't speak about the problem in serbia because I was in france but I'm the only person who knows the 2 kidnappers. So, I don't know where is the french little girl I know only she is in a family ( famille d'accueil en francais) in south of france. In France, also there are a girl 22 years old, a girl 13 years old
(they are my daughters also) and a boy 13 years old ( son of the male kidnapper) and a baby 2 years old (today).
These children need also their parents in france, even if is to see in prison but in france.
on the picture you can see my daughter 26 years old ( you can recognize fair hairs on the pictures on the arrest) and the baby with her it's the real frebch baby 2 years old (yesterday was her birthday)
As you can see that I say is true
Thank you Michele, I hope that the information given by Carana is of some assistance to you.
Your Grandchild's birthday was the day after the Serbian child's birthday, so only a day younger.
I doubt if you saw her on her birthday, which is rather sad, but I hope she was given a good birthday by the people she is with. Her colouring and build is much like the Serbian child.
We would be pleased to hear of anything that may be happening, or led up to this dreadful situation to help us understand, so please keep in touch with us and we will help where we can.
Merci Michele, je espère que l'information donnée par Carana est d'une certaine utilité pour vous.
L'anniversaire de votre petit-enfant était le lendemain de l'anniversaire de l'enfant serbe, donc seulement un jour plus jeune.
Je doute que vous l'avez vue pour son anniversaire, ce qui est plutôt triste, mais je espère qu'elle a été donné un bon anniversaire par les gens qu'elle est avec. Sa coloration et la construction est un peu comme l'enfant serbe.
Nous serions heureux d'entendre parler de tout ce qui peut se passer, ou conduit à cette situation terrible pour nous aider à comprendre, alors se il vous plaît de rester en contact avec nous et nous vous aiderons où nous le pouvons.
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Thank you Michele, I hope that the information given by Carana is of some assistance to you.
Your Grandchild's birthday was the day after the Serbian child's birthday, so only a day younger.
I doubt if you saw her on her birthday, which is rather sad, but I hope she was given a good birthday by the people she is with. Her colouring and build is much like the Serbian child.
We would be pleased to hear of anything that may be happening, or led up to this dreadful situation to help us understand, so please keep in touch with us and we will help where we can.
Merci Michele, je espère que l'information donnée par Carana est d'une certaine utilité pour vous.
L'anniversaire de votre petit-enfant était le lendemain de l'anniversaire de l'enfant serbe, donc seulement un jour plus jeune.
Je doute que vous l'avez vue pour son anniversaire, ce qui est plutôt triste, mais je espère qu'elle a été donné un bon anniversaire par les gens qu'elle est avec. Sa coloration et la construction est un peu comme l'enfant serbe.
Nous serions heureux d'entendre parler de tout ce qui peut se passer, ou conduit à cette situation terrible pour nous aider à comprendre, alors se il vous plaît de rester en contact avec nous et nous vous aiderons où nous le pouvons.
Some lovely kind responses here, helpful too... and in French !
Well done guys.
I would like to add my good wishes and hope for a speedy and good resolution.
Thinking of you
sadie x
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For your information, my french litlle grand-daughter is born the april 18 th 2013, she was 2 years old yestreday.
For the little serbian girl abducted I don't know her real date of birthday.
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For your information, my french litlle grand-daughter is born the april 18 th 2013, she was 2 years old yestreday.
For the little serbian girl abducted I don't know her real date of birthday.
Just coincidence, Michel,
- Doctors say that Masha will not remember this. April 17, her second birthday - adds Damir.
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The latest news article on the kidnappers:-
French natives, who kidnapped two year old Masha in Belgrade’s settlement Braca Jerkovic on March 13th, did not find the girl through social media networks, as was originally claimed, but the little girl was randomly tipped as they wandered Belgrade.
Police have completely reconstructed the movements of the French, from the moment they entered Serbia from Romania. They were first in Pancevo, visiting a mall, but because they did not have success with their original intent, they moved to Belgrade. Wandering the streets of Belgrade, they ended up in Braca Jerkovic, where the kidnapping took place.
Although they initially claimed that they would not hurt Masha, and that they would return her to Serbia, new insight from the French Police predict a terrifying epilogue.
08:32 14. April 2015.
Little Masha's kidnappers wanted to remove her heart, liver and kidney: the creepy new details about the kidnapping of the century
The French police have come to know that the kidnappers from France were linked to an organized crime group involved in organ trade
Primtskrin: N1, MUP Srbije
French investigative forces conducting a parallel investigation of three of their national residents who kidnapped little Masha in Serbia, have come to the information that Masha was supposed to be delivered to retailers of human organs.
read more
http://www.telegraf.rs/english/1523293-little-mashas-kidnappers-wanted-to-remove-her-heart-liver-and-kidney-the-creepy-new-details-about-the-kidnapping-of-the-century
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How much truth and how much sensationalism is in these articles is unknown, as we know very little about the country they come from, but I will continue to post update as usual.
If Michel is indeed a relative of kristel, is must be a great worry for him, no matter what the real story entails.
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Hmmm. I suspect that it's tabloid invention à la CdaM.
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Hmmm. I suspect that it's tabloid invention à la CdaM.
Probably correct there, Carana, but I am just passing on the news.
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I can't find anything in the non-Serbian press about this organ trafficking allegation.
The latest I can find in the French press is this:
http://videos.tf1.fr/infos/2015/le-combat-d-axel-pour-retrouver-sa-fille-ce-qui-se-cache-derriere-8582885.html
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I can't find anything in the non-Serbian press about this organ trafficking allegation.
The latest I can find in the French press is this:
http://videos.tf1.fr/infos/2015/le-combat-d-axel-pour-retrouver-sa-fille-ce-qui-se-cache-derriere-8582885.html
There does not seem to be much at all on the French news, but they are busy with the Zoe case who was murdered by a foreigner. A foreign criminal always seems to get more space.
I suspect the Body part news from Serbia is possibly the result of an overactive imagination trying to work out the possibilities, that have not been ruled out…………but who knows?
They (the kidnappers) are being held in Belgrade prison
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From March, but I don't recall having seen it before.
A narrator describes what happened and the Serbian mother describes how she managed to grab her daughter, but was pushed off and broke her fingers. The family apparently left their home in Belgrade for a while to get over it (and probably to avoid the media pack). The mother is a French teacher, oddly enough, but there's no indication as to whether the child understood French or not.
The little one was in shock "as if she didn't hear anything".
There's a short interview with the lawyer for Alexia (the French grandmother) who said that what has emerged in the media is just speculation and he doesn't know where the theories have come from. He doesn't believe the paternity DNA story that appeared in the press or the human trafficking one. (And probably even less the latest "organ-trafficking" one, although that only emerged a few days ago.) He doesn't say what he thinks did happen, though.
http://videos.tf1.fr/infos/2015/deux-semaines-apres-le-rapt-de-sa-fille-a-belgrade-elle-temoigne-8582893.html
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(http://)
With this pictures I can prove that I'm the ex_husband and the father of the two kidnappers and the grand_father of the baby in france and that I say is true.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I hope you are managing to cope, Michel, and getting some legal assistance.
The two little girls are safe which is the most important thing.
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A great story and thanks to everyone who have contributed and helped with translations.
If ever we needed a reality check this case was it. This sort of thing goes on in third-world back-waters all the time but for it to be attempted in broad daylight in the middle of Europe is astonishing.
The kidnappers obviously thought that by sticking on stolen Romanian plates that they would defeat any police chase but thankfully they misjudged the Serbian ability to track vehicles.
Time will tell whether there is any truth in the paternity story or whether this fiasco was simply a child trafficking abduction gone wrong.