Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on February 19, 2015, 10:07:33 PM
Title: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Angelo222 on February 19, 2015, 10:07:33 PM
Consider for a moment, would one consider the comment ,"f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" published in Kate McCann's book and directed at a named Portuguese police officer Ricardo Paiva to be grossly abusive or offensive?
Why then is a similar comment directed at Kate McCann any different?
Or is it a case of, one Law for them and another for the rest of us? 8)-)))
186
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on February 19, 2015, 10:18:40 PM
Consider for a moment, would one consider the comment ,"f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" published in Kate McCann's book and directed at a named Portuguese police officer Ricardo Paiva to be grossly abusive or offensive?
Why then is a similar comment directed at Kate McCann any different?
Or is it a case of, one Law for them and another for the rest of us? 8)-)))
Depends what you call grossly offensive as against being spot on, to the mark, accurate and truthful!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Angelo222 on February 19, 2015, 10:23:34 PM
Depends what you call grossly offensive as against being spot on, to the mark, accurate and truthful!
We could have a vote on this very point. Is Kate McCanns comment grossly abusive if not grossly insulting and offensive. I most definitely know what my vote is.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 19, 2015, 10:29:22 PM
Depends what you call grossly offensive as against being spot on, to the mark, accurate and truthful!
Consider for a moment, would one consider the comment ,"f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" published in Kate McCann's book and directed at a named Portuguese police officer Ricardo Paiva to be grossly abusive or offensive?
Why then is a similar comment directed at Kate McCann any different?
Or is it a case of, one Law for them and another for the rest of us? 8)-)))
BL made thousands of unpleasant tweets, some of which were aimed at another twitter user who she repeatedly mocked as being fat, claimed falsely that she was a prostitute and rejoiced at the prospect of her losing her job - would you call any of that grossly offensive?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Angelo222 on February 20, 2015, 10:56:18 AM
Depends what you call grossly offensive as against being spot on, to the mark, accurate and truthful!
Consider for a moment, would one consider the comment ,"f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" published in Kate McCann's book and directed at a named Portuguese police officer Ricardo Paiva to be grossly abusive or offensive?
Why then is a similar comment directed at Kate McCann any different?
Or is it a case of, one Law for them and another for the rest of us? 8)-)))
I see none of the [ pr0s ] faithful have responded to my earlier post about Kate McCanns reference to a serving Portuguese police officer as a "f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" in her book Madeleine?
Is this too not grossly offensive language??
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 20, 2015, 11:34:09 AM
I see none of the [ pr0s ] faithful have responded to my earlier post about Kate McCanns reference to a serving Portuguese police officer as a "f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" in her book Madeleine?
Is this too not grossly offensive language??
It is very rude yes, Angelo, nasty, horrible woman saying such offensive things about poor Ricardo, but does that make the campaign of BL et all thoroughly justified then, in your view?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Angelo222 on February 20, 2015, 11:38:32 AM
It is very rude yes, Angelo, nasty, horrible woman saying such offensive things about poor Ricardo, but does that make the campaign of BL et al thoroughly justified then, in your view?
I asked you about Kate McCanns comment Alfie. Why do you think she felt it necessary to make that comment, a comment which I am sure she was warned about. Maybe it's Paiva who should be raising an action for defamation?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: ferryman on February 20, 2015, 11:53:50 AM
I asked you about Kate McCanns comment Alfie. Why do you think she felt it necessary to make that comment, a comment which I am sure she was warned about. Maybe it's Paiva who should be raising an action for defamation?
I would argue that Kate was entitled to vent a little steam after the way Paivia turned on them.
Remember, in the very early days, he had invited the McCanns to dinner and their children played with Pavia's children .....
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: DCI on February 20, 2015, 12:02:33 PM
I asked you about Kate McCanns comment Alfie. Why do you think she felt it necessary to make that comment, a comment which I am sure she was warned about. Maybe it's Paiva who should be raising an action for defamation?
I see you don't give the reason Kate said he was a F T, who and why would anyone warn her when it was something she whispered under her breath?
Paiva proved himself to be a F T, flashing his truncheon at a woman over the net.
A COP who comforted Madeleine McCann’s parents is being probed for allegedly sending filthy photos to a woman
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Matthew Wyse on February 20, 2015, 12:05:36 PM
I would argue that Kate was entitled to vent a little steam after the way Paivia turned on them.
Remember, in the very early days, he had invited the McCanns to dinner and their children played with Pavia's children .....
I would argue she had no right to use that language, what he does in his own time is his business. If anyone is a f.....g tsser it is Kate McCann. He was a detectve and did his job and called them out to which they reacted badly, their problem not his.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on February 20, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
I would argue she had no right to use that language, what he does in his own time is his business. If anyone is a f.....g tsser it is Kate McCann. He was a detectve and did his job and called them out to which they reacted badly, their problem not his.
Kate McCann muttered it under her breath, she did not say it to the detective.
So if you had been in Kate McCann's position and had been accused of hiding your child's body what would you have been thinking maybe - 'what a very nice detective', I think not.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on February 20, 2015, 12:24:36 PM
I would argue she had no right to use that language, what he does in his own time is his business. If anyone is a f.....g tsser it is Kate McCann. He was a detectve and did his job and called them out to which they reacted badly, their problem not his.
I suppose that she could have written that she was saying to herself "Ricardo, I'm really disappointed with you", as one does in an intimidating situation, when suddenly realising that someone you'd trusted was apparently trying to stitch you up for a crime that you hadn't committed and that no one had been looking for your missing child for ages and was unlikely to ever do so henceforth.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: John on February 20, 2015, 12:29:49 PM
Kate McCann muttered it under her breath, she did not say it to the detective.
So if you had been in Kate McCann's position and had been accused of hiding your child's body what would you have been thinking maybe - 'what a very nice detective', I think not.
And that's where it should have stayed but that isn't Kate McCanns style is it?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: ferryman on February 20, 2015, 12:33:21 PM
I suppose that she could have written that she was saying to herself "Ricardo, I'm really disappointed with you", as one does in an intimidating situation, when suddenly realising that someone you'd trusted was apparently trying to stitch you up for a crime that you hadn't committed and that no one had been looking for your missing child for ages and was unlikely to ever do so henceforth.
That's the nub ...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: DCI on February 20, 2015, 12:40:54 PM
Kate McCann muttered it under her breath, she did not say it to the detective.
So if you had been in Kate McCann's position and had been accused of hiding your child's body what would you have been thinking maybe - 'what a very nice detective', I think not.
Her reason
"Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this.These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’ Instead I said I couldn’t explain it, but neither could he. I remember feeling such disdain for Ricardo at this point. What was he doing? I thought. Just following orders? Under my breath, I found myself whispering,‘F*****g t****r, f*****g t****r.’ This quiet chant somehow kept me strong, kept me in control. This man did not deserve my respect. ‘F*****g t****r . . .’"
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on February 20, 2015, 12:41:52 PM
"Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this.These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’ Instead I said I couldn’t explain it, but neither could he. I remember feeling such disdain for Ricardo at this point. What was he doing? I thought. Just following orders? Under my breath, I found myself whispering,‘F*****g t****r, f*****g t****r.’ This quiet chant somehow kept me strong, kept me in control. This man did not deserve my respect. ‘F*****g t****r . . .’".
Exactly DCI.
They don't seem to appreciate what Kate McCann was having to endure. Telling her the DNA matched Madeleine's when they didn't, letting her believe Madeleine was dead, then accusing her of doing something to her daughter.
it must have been horrendous for her, I think I would be shouting it out rather than saying it under my breath, I'd want to scream at them.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2015, 12:56:03 PM
They don't seem to appreciate what Kate McCann was having to endure. Telling her the DNA matched Madeleine's when they didn't, letting her believe Madeleine was dead, then accusing her of doing something to her daughter.
it must have been horrendous for her, I think I would be shouting it out rather than saying it under my breath, I'd want to scream at them.
It was a form of mental torture designed to force a 'confession' ... not being a poor Portuguese National, and having a lawyer in attendance with her ... the plastic bag over the head technique was probably considered inappropriate.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 20, 2015, 01:06:09 PM
It was a form of mental torture designed to force a 'confession' ... not being a poor Portuguese National, and having a lawyer in attendance with her ... the plastic bag over the head technique was probably considered inappropriate.
Gosh we are becoming emotional.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: John on February 20, 2015, 01:10:27 PM
They don't seem to appreciate what Kate McCann was having to endure. Telling her the DNA matched Madeleine's when they didn't, letting her believe Madeleine was dead, then accusing her of doing something to her daughter.
it must have been horrendous for her, I think I would be shouting it out rather than saying it under my breath, I'd want to scream at them.
Normal police procedure I'm afraid. Always check out the parents and other family members and friends first. Despite claims to the contrary, the McCanns weren't dealt with any more severely than any other parents of a child who disappeared under suspicious circumstances. In fact, given Kate's refusal to cooperate and answer the simplest questions I am surprised they weren't detained. I believe Amaral wanted to give them as much rope as possible and was secretly hoping they would flee...it nearly worked!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on February 20, 2015, 01:18:35 PM
Normal police procedure I'm afraid. Always check out the parents and other family members and friends first. Despite claims to the contrary, the McCanns weren't dealt with any more severely than any other parents of a child who disappeared under suspicious circumstances. In fact, given Kate's refusal to cooperate and answer the simplest questions I am surprised they weren't detained. I believe Amaral wanted to give them as much rope as possible and was secretly hoping they would flee...it nearly worked!
Is it any wonder Kate refused to answer the questions [on her lawyers advice] They were trying to frame them.
They couldn't detain them as they didn't have any evidence that they were guilty.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2015, 01:21:22 PM
I asked you about Kate McCanns comment Alfie. Why do you think she felt it necessary to make that comment, a comment which I am sure she was warned about. Maybe it's Paiva who should be raising an action for defamation?
She was writing a book about how she felt at the time. If she really DID mutter "f..king tosser" under her breath then her book is an accurate reflection of those feelings - and who can really blame her for the way she felt at the time. Calling someone an effing tosser is not libellous, it is merely an insult so Paiva would not have had a leg to stand on with regard to any legal action.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on February 20, 2015, 02:35:42 PM
She was writing a book about how she felt at the time. If she really DID mutter "f..king tosser" under her breath then her book is an accurate reflection of those feelings - and who can really blame her for the way she felt at the time. Calling someone an effing tosser is not libellous, it is merely an insult so Paiva would not have had a leg to stand on with regard to any legal action.
as Pavia was telling lies..to a witness in order to force a confession...he certainly wouldn't have a leg to stand on.... would pavias action account to misconduct in the uk
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Anna on February 20, 2015, 02:43:53 PM
as Pavia was telling lies..to a witness in order to force a confession...he certainly wouldn't have a leg to stand on.... would pavias action account to misconduct in the uk
I believe, Davel, that lying to witness/suspect to achieve a confession can count as coercion and any confession would be invalid…..In this country that is.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on February 20, 2015, 03:11:42 PM
I believe, Davel, that lying to witness/suspect to achieve a confession can count as coercion and any confession would be invalid…..In this country that is.
I believe in Portugal a confession is not valid unless it is repeated in court Anna.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2015, 04:34:53 PM
I asked you about Kate McCanns comment Alfie. Why do you think she felt it necessary to make that comment, a comment which I am sure she was warned about. Maybe it's Paiva who should be raising an action for defamation?
LOL Angelo, if the allegation could be proven I doubt Ricardo Paiva would have a leg to stand on ... I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again ... when Kate McCann said f****** t***** she was merely being prescient as a future internet encounter was to prove.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: John on April 02, 2015, 12:35:03 AM
LOL Angelo, if the allegation could be proven I doubt Ricardo Paiva would have a leg to stand on ... I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again ... when Kate McCann said f****** t***** she was merely being prescient as a future internet encounter was to prove.
I don't see it that way at all. Ricardo was only doing his job and that job was to get to the truth of Madeleine's disappearance regardless of the consequences. His job was to get close to the parents of the missing girl and report back any suspicions and any observations. If Kate McCann thought he was socialising with them out of some sort of comradery then she was the naive one.
I have no doubt the publishers of Kate's book had a discussion with her regarding the inclusion of the offending comment just as I have no doubt she insisted it be included.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 12:53:54 AM
Personally I don't use bad language, so for me it's unacceptable. Also, wasn't the book said to be for her children to read later in life? My children have never heard me use such language, I assume hers have. Was Ricardo the liaison officer? In England the job of the liaison officer is to inform the family but also to report back on what they say, how they behave, etc. They are part of the investigating team, not separate from it. Her lawyers should perhaps have made her aware of that fact.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: misty on April 02, 2015, 01:20:14 AM
Exactly how offensive is Kate's comment compared to the ones hurled at football referees every weekend who are only "doing their job"? Seriously.....some folk are being "oversensitive" out of sheer bloody-mindedness. I guess flogging page 129 must have been exhausted.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 02, 2015, 01:20:36 AM
Kate is not naive but she likes to play the damsel in distress to receive pity but the other side come out when it matters. Her book is fascinating.
I sat there quietly, trying to compose myself despite the anger bubbling below the surface. They haven’t been looking for Madeleine . . . Then they started. What had I seen and heard after entering apartment 5A at 10pm on 3 May 2007? Who called the police? At what time? Who contacted the media? It’s actually quite difficult not to answer when someone asks you a question. The natural reaction is to reply, out of politeness if nothing else. And of course the urge to say what I thought about some of their vile and ridiculous insinuations was hard to suppress. On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating ‘No comment’ didn’t involve engaging my brain. It certainly speeded up the translation process. With luck it would mean these proceedings wouldn’t drag on any longer than they had to. (Madeleine)
A QUESTION SHE DID ANSWER
Q. Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardising the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?
A. 'Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.' (KM)
Why would she answer that one. What did your lawyer say 8(0(*
Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?
A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment. (GA)
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: John on April 02, 2015, 02:55:45 AM
Exactly how offensive is Kate's comment compared to the ones hurled at football referees every weekend who are only "doing their job"? Seriously.....some folk are being "oversensitive" out of sheer bloody-mindedness. I guess flogging page 129 must have been exhausted.
The difference being of course that the comment in the book was carefully calculated and not off-the-cuff. Just as the decision to refuse to answer the Portuguese police questions was...by design regardless of the consequences for Madeleine, a calculated decision to impede the investigation. The reason for which only she knows.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 02, 2015, 07:42:21 AM
It's purely a matter of opinion ...the sceptics will say it's offensive and the supporters will say it isn't
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
There was no respect for the Portuguese police from the beginning; remember Tweedledum and Tweedledee? This group of friends seem to me to have had an inflated sense of their own importance. They bombarded Mark Warner with demands before they got there, hogged the Tapas bookings so others couldn't get in for a meal and moved the tennis times to suit themselves. When Mrs Fenn asked what was wrong she was 'a woman with a plummy voice' and Kate McCann and Fiona Payne made a short and to the point reply. When KM realised the police suspected her her first reaction wasn't 'Oh no! They haven't been looking for Madeleine' it was 'What do they know? What will people say?'
Some people have decided that the McCanns are innocent of any wrong doing and they may be right, I don't know. What I find hard to understand is why they then have to praise and excuse everything they say and do. Her swearing isnt bad, oh no, she was justified. I have seen 'He deserved it' 'She was just letting off steam' 'BL did it worse' (lol, lol) 'It was under her breath' (lol) 'He may be an internet perv' 'football fans do it'.
The McCanns and their friends may be innocent of any crime, but they don't come across as a very pleasant bunch in my opinion.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 02, 2015, 09:28:10 AM
There was no respect for the Portuguese police from the beginning; remember Tweedledum and Tweedledee? This group of friends seem to me to have had an inflated sense of their own importance. They bombarded Mark Warner with demands before they got there, hogged the Tapas bookings so others couldn't get in for a meal and moved the tennis times to suit themselves. When Mrs Fenn asked what was wrong she was 'a woman with a plummy voice' and Kate McCann and Fiona Payne made a short and to the point reply. When KM realised the police suspected her her first reaction wasn't 'Oh no! They haven't been looking for Madeleine' it was 'What do they know? What will people say?'
Some people have decided that the McCanns are innocent of any wrong doing and they may be right, I don't know. What I find hard to understand is why they then have to praise and excuse everything they say and do. Her swearing isnt bad, oh no, she was justified. I have seen 'He deserved it' 'She was just letting off steam' 'BL did it worse' (lol, lol) 'It was under her breath' (lol) 'He may be an internet perv' 'football fans do it'.
The McCanns and their friends may be innocent of any crime, but they don't come across as a very pleasant bunch in my opinion.
Not that's its on any importance, but that is pretty much my veiw as well
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 09:38:20 AM
Not that's its on any importance, but that is pretty much my veiw as well
Do you know where we can buy some rose tinted spectacles? We could fit in great if we had some. @)(++(*
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 02, 2015, 10:10:09 AM
She hasn't finished with Ricardo Paiva yet.
At 4.30pm Ricardo arrived with a female colleague and the forms Gerry needed to complete. After his colleague left with the paperwork, Ricardo asked if we had any queries he could answer. ‘Do you have any information for us?’ I inquired. He clarified with us the date of our planned departure back to the UK and told us that the PJ wanted to ‘interrogate’ me on Wednesday and Gerry on Thursday. We’d waited almost four weeks for these interviews and it was obvious they had been hastily arranged once Bob Small notified the PJ that we would be leaving the country. Otherwise, why now? As far as we knew, they didn’t have the forensic results back yet. We should bring our lawyer with us to the police station, Ricardo went on. Gerry smelled a rat. The law has changed now, but back then witnesses were not normally entitled to legal representation. ‘Isn’t it unusual for witnesses to be questioned with their lawyer present?’ he asked. It was like pulling teeth, but these were teeth that would have been falling out very soon anyway. We were not going to be questioned as witnesses, Ricardo finally admitted. ‘So what will our status be, then?’ Gerry pressed him. ‘It’s called arguido.’ As if we’d never heard the word. I dropped my head in my hands in utter disbelief. I began to shake and cry. I shouted at Ricardo, ‘What are you doing? Why are you doing this? I can’t believe what’s going on! This is ridiculous. It’s despicable.’ I shook my head over and over again. ‘This can’t be happening. This just cannotbe true!’ What kind of country was this? And while the PJ were going down this track, leading the media and public to believe we were responsible for our daughter’s disappearance, who was looking for Madeleine? I remember crying out in despair, ‘What will our parents think? How will they cope with this? What are you trying to do? Destroy our family completely?’ These were of course rhetorical questions, but they would subsequently be thrown back at me as some kind of proof of a guilty conscience. My remark about our parents in particular was perceived as strange and suspicious. To me it was a completely understandable reaction. We love our parents and were greatly concerned about their health and emotional state. They had lost their granddaughter. They had seen their own son and daughter in extreme pain and distress and every aspect of our characters ripped to shreds in the newspapers. They’d been through so much already, and now this. Trisha and Eileen were staying with us for what was intended to be our final week in Luz. Hearing the commotion from the next room, where they were playing with Sean and Amelie, they came running in demanding to know what was happening. Within seconds there were more tears and more shouts of dismay and disbelief. Once again things were going from bad to worse. Much worse. Ricardo left, looking every inch the sheepish messenger boy he was. (Madeleine)
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Eleanor on April 02, 2015, 10:13:16 AM
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I've been called worse than that during the last eight years. In fact I was, after the very first post I ever made on the Case. He's a grown man and a Police Officer, who was lying to a witness in the most distressing circumstances. Why isn't anyone complaining about that? Why this precious defence of a man who has at least some decidedly suspect morals, who certainly knew he was lying?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 02, 2015, 10:18:38 AM
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I've been called worse than that during the last eight years. In fact I was, after the very first post I ever made on the Case. He's a grown man and a Police Officer, who was lying to a witness in the most distressing circumstances. Why isn't anyone complaining about that? Why this precious defence of a man who has at least some decidedly suspect morals, who certainly knew he was lying?
He wasn't lying. The dogs alerted behind that sofa. Blood was found there. Parents are always investigated in these cases but the McCanns don't like it and are playing the sympathy card. Well it doesn't wash with many. They can answer questions like all the other arguidos in this case! You keep on making excuses for them. It's their daughter, they refuse to answer questions and the tapas lot didn't go back and do a reconstruction. They can stop blaming others and the evil PJ because if anyone is to blame it's them for not cooperating! They would rather hire lawyers and sue people instead!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Eleanor on April 02, 2015, 10:39:46 AM
He wasn't lying. The dogs alerted behind that sofa. Blood was found there. Parents are always investigated in these cases but the McCanns don't like it and are playing the sympathy card. Well it doesn't wash with many who can see through their BS. They can answer questions like all the other arguidos in this case! You keep on making excuses for them. It's their daughter, they refuse to answer questions and they didn't go back and do a reconstruction. They can stop blaming others and the evil PJ because if anyone is to blame it's them for not cooperating! They would rather hire lawyers and sue people instead!
What has this got to do with what Kate said?
Paiva is not a totally stupid man. He knew that what he was accusing her of could not be proved.
I do not keep making excuses for The McCanns. I just happen to believe in Innocent until Proven Guilty. And where in English Law does it say that witnesses or suspects are forced to answer questions designed to implicate them?
And quite frankly, if F****** T***** was the best she could come up with, then she could do with a few lessons.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Benice on April 02, 2015, 11:09:08 AM
Kate is not naive but she likes to play the damsel in distress to receive pity but the other side come out when it matters. Her book is fascinating.
I sat there quietly, trying to compose myself despite the anger bubbling below the surface. They haven’t been looking for Madeleine . . . Then they started. What had I seen and heard after entering apartment 5A at 10pm on 3 May 2007? Who called the police? At what time? Who contacted the media? It’s actually quite difficult not to answer when someone asks you a question. The natural reaction is to reply, out of politeness if nothing else. And of course the urge to say what I thought about some of their vile and ridiculous insinuations was hard to suppress. On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating ‘No comment’ didn’t involve engaging my brain. It certainly speeded up the translation process. With luck it would mean these proceedings wouldn’t drag on any longer than they had to. (Madeleine)
A QUESTION SHE DID ANSWER
Q. Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardising the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?
A. 'Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.' (KM)
Why would she answer that one. What did your lawyer say 8(0(*
Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?
A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment. (GA)
Quite a detailed description of Kate, for someone who had never met her or spoken to her.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Eleanor on April 02, 2015, 11:09:33 AM
This Thread is not going Off Topic, so please take Off Topic comments elsewhere.
Was Kate McCanns comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
I don't think it was, especially in the light of the book written by Amaral, which Paiva made a half hearted attempt to justify, wherein much worse things were said about Kate McCann.
Some of you might well have a different opinion, in which case voice then here.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 02, 2015, 11:19:35 AM
Were it in public directed at an individual, in England it could be considered an offence under the Public Order Act. Were it two mates having a barney down the "battle" it would be slightly different. Draw your own conclusions from that.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 02, 2015, 11:20:00 AM
There was no respect for the Portuguese police from the beginning; remember Tweedledum and Tweedledee? This group of friends seem to me to have had an inflated sense of their own importance. They bombarded Mark Warner with demands before they got there, hogged the Tapas bookings so others couldn't get in for a meal and moved the tennis times to suit themselves. When Mrs Fenn asked what was wrong she was 'a woman with a plummy voice' and Kate McCann and Fiona Payne made a short and to the point reply. When KM realised the police suspected her her first reaction wasn't 'Oh no! They haven't been looking for Madeleine' it was 'What do they know? What will people say?'
Some people have decided that the McCanns are innocent of any wrong doing and they may be right, I don't know. What I find hard to understand is why they then have to praise and excuse everything they say and do. Her swearing isnt bad, oh no, she was justified. I have seen 'He deserved it' 'She was just letting off steam' 'BL did it worse' (lol, lol) 'It was under her breath' (lol) 'He may be an internet perv' 'football fans do it'.
The McCanns and their friends may be innocent of any crime, but they don't come across as a very pleasant bunch in my opinion.
Agree with this post 100% well said G.
Kate does have a nasty streak in my opinion. It is one thing to be upset at being questioned about involvement in your childs disappearance, quite another to slagg off the police and a countrys legal system. Seem strange to say the least- what did she expect British rule to be enforced? Her behaviour would have been interpreted as a sign of guilt.. Of that I am sure. She seemed to like the attention of having they upper hand?
And I still believe that the parents were more concerned with their reputation...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 02, 2015, 11:21:00 AM
Personally I don't use bad language, so for me it's unacceptable. Also, wasn't the book said to be for her children to read later in life? My children have never heard me use such language, I assume hers have. Was Ricardo the liaison officer? In England the job of the liaison officer is to inform the family but also to report back on what they say, how they behave, etc. They are part of the investigating team, not separate from it. Her lawyers should perhaps have made her aware of that fact.
Indeed, and the language was crude and aggressive in my opinion.
The children would have been used to that kind of language,It is claimed Gerry said on the bus he was not there to F**** enjoy himself?
Not the perfect family as is potrayed.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Benice on April 02, 2015, 11:41:47 AM
Yes he was behind a 2 way mirror watching proceedings. Have you ever seen them in police stations or films?
Then why does he never mention a 2-way mirror? After all that would be a perfectly acceptable reason for many of his comments in which he gives the distinct impression to the reader that he was actually there with the McCanns. He had the perfect opportunity to do that when interviewed - but instead chose to lie and claim that he had met the McCanns.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 02, 2015, 11:44:00 AM
He wasn't lying. The dogs alerted behind that sofa. Blood was found there. Parents are always investigated in these cases but the McCanns don't like it and are playing the sympathy card. Well it doesn't wash with many. They can answer questions like all the other arguidos in this case! You keep on making excuses for them. It's their daughter, they refuse to answer questions and the tapas lot didn't go back and do a reconstruction. They can stop blaming others and the evil PJ because if anyone is to blame it's them for not cooperating! They would rather hire lawyers and sue people instead!
Really?
"Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this.These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’
Have I missed something? Perhaps you could provide the forensic report confirming that the samples matched Madeleine.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 11:48:26 AM
Indeed, and the language was crude and aggressive in my opinion.
The children would have been used to that kind of language,It is claimed Gerry said on the bus he was not there to F**** enjoy himself?
Not the perfect family as is potrayed.
It might be quite fun if they gave an interview using their normal language. I expect it would have to be shown after the watershed. They could give their opinions of all those who have obstructed or suspected them. 8(>((
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 11:57:38 AM
"Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this.These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’
Have I missed something? Perhaps you could provide the forensic report confirming that the samples matched Madeleine.
Can you provide evidence that Ricardo said that? Also, if he did, was it a lie? Some of the forensics did match Madeleine's DNA, but not closely enough to say beyond doubt it was hers.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Benice on April 02, 2015, 12:29:21 PM
Disputing or challenging points/opinions on here does not equate to believing the McCanns are perfect. I might as well claim that posters who defend Amaral only do so because they think he is perfect. Would you accept that.
Too daft for words IMO - just as the attempt to 'prove' there is something uniquely unacceptable about the McCanns for using the F word - is too petty for words IMO.
Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 12:44:37 PM
Disputing or challenging points/opinions on here does not equate to believing the McCanns are perfect. I might as well claim that posters who defend Amaral only do so because they think he is perfect. Would you accept that.
Too daft for words IMO - just as the attempt to 'prove' there is something uniquely unacceptable about the McCanns for using the F word - is too petty for words IMO.
Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Well, I'm glad to hear it. My impression was mistaken then. Perhaps we should have a discussion on their imperfections at some point.
You may find coarse or offensive language petty, but I don't. I judge people who use such language because I don't find it acceptable. I find it unnecessary and demeaning to the person who uses it. If it is so acceptable why is it not used on the news, in newspapers, in most workplaces? Why do the police object when people use it to them on those reality programmes? Because it's coarse and offensive, that's why. I can see no reason for Amaral being brought into this discussion either. The thread is about the language used by Kate McCann. If people wish to discuss Amaral's character and use of language then perhaps another thread is needed?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 02, 2015, 01:00:50 PM
Can we get something straight, Kate McCann did not say these words aloud, they were muttered under her breath.
Also you have to take the circumstances into account, she wasn't been handed a parking fine, she was being accused of faking an abduction and hiding her child's body!!!
Can you put yourself in Kate McCann's position? No you can't.
Imagine the horror, she was imagining they were searching for the person who took Madeleine, then all of a sudden they are saying not only that her daughter was 'dead' that would be enough to send someone over the edge, but that they had faked her abduction and hidden their daughters body, they weren't searching for her at all.
Believe me they would have had to hold me down and sedate me, I would have screamed like a banshee, I think Kate McCann behaved very well in the circumstances.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 02, 2015, 01:08:27 PM
Well, I'm glad to hear it. My impression was mistaken then. Perhaps we should have a discussion on their imperfections at some point.
You may find coarse or offensive language petty, but I don't. I judge people who use such language because I don't find it acceptable. I find it unnecessary and demeaning to the person who uses it. If it is so acceptable why is it not used on the news, in newspapers, in most workplaces? Why do the police object when people use it to them on those reality programmes? Because it's coarse and offensive, that's why. I can see no reason for Amaral being brought into this discussion either. The thread is about the language used by Kate McCann. If people wish to discuss Amaral's character and use of language then perhaps another thread is needed?
Don't know if you have noticed or not ... whatever the title of the thread it always degenerates into discussion of "their imperfections at some point" and/or their parenting skills.
When almost being totalled by a ten ton truck on a roundabout I shocked myself by uttering an expletive I didn't know I knew as what I thought was going to be my last word instead of the pious prayer I had always imagined it would be.
I'm amused that people can get themselves so worked up by two words, when they don't seem to give a tinker's curse that someone saw fit to 'vanish' a little girl and direct a little of their negative energy in that person/s' direction.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 02, 2015, 01:18:27 PM
Well, I'm glad to hear it. My impression was mistaken then. Perhaps we should have a discussion on their imperfections at some point.
You may find coarse or offensive language petty, but I don't. I judge people who use such language because I don't find it acceptable. I find it unnecessary and demeaning to the person who uses it. If it is so acceptable why is it not used on the news, in newspapers, in most workplaces? Why do the police object when people use it to them on those reality programmes? Because it's coarse and offensive, that's why. I can see no reason for Amaral being brought into this discussion either. The thread is about the language used by Kate McCann. If people wish to discuss Amaral's character and use of language then perhaps another thread is needed?
that sort of language is quite common amongst the middle classes...including doctors
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 02, 2015, 01:28:28 PM
Well, I'm glad to hear it. My impression was mistaken then. Perhaps we should have a discussion on their imperfections at some point.
You may find coarse or offensive language petty, but I don't. I judge people who use such language because I don't find it acceptable. I find it unnecessary and demeaning to the person who uses it. If it is so acceptable why is it not used on the news, in newspapers, in most workplaces? Why do the police object when people use it to them on those reality programmes? Because it's coarse and offensive, that's why. I can see no reason for Amaral being brought into this discussion either. The thread is about the language used by Kate McCann. If people wish to discuss Amaral's character and use of language then perhaps another thread is needed?
Oh for heavens sake, dont be so "precious".
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 02, 2015, 01:46:45 PM
As a neutral re the McCanns (just parking that in advance), I find the words appropriate for the situation described by the Kate McCann. That is, assuming that the situation was as described in her book, as I have only Kate's book to say that the situation and the expletive existed.
Kate's description about repeated stopping of the tape to explain blood and DNA had been found does not match files or the videos on this point. Keela alerted 3 times. Eddie alerted in lots of places, including lots where Keela did not. The only clear match to Madeleine was in 5A. Therefore I wonder whether artistic licence has been taken by Kate.
The only reference I can find to Kate dropping her head in the interview is in Amaral's book, so I am equally cautious about whether such an event actually happened, or it is artistic licence.
For anyone thinking Kate's expletive might offend the children, here's my take. The files were out before her book, and I would expect someone in her position to mount a strong attack on the dogs, whether that person was innocent or guilty. And Kate would have wanted the twins to know, in the passage of time, that she reacted strongly. Whether she actually did or not, whether the tape-stopping happened as she said it had, or not.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 02:10:22 PM
I'm well aware that coarse and offensive is now widespread. In my youth it wasn't. Maybe I'm old-fashioned in seeing it as unacceptable, but I do. That's my opinion, always has been and always will be.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 02, 2015, 02:16:05 PM
And of course no "McCann sceptic would ever use anything stronger than "bother" 8)-)))
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 02, 2015, 02:18:22 PM
I'm always surprised when I see it in printed form in a book or newspaper, even though it is commonplace in speech.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 02, 2015, 02:29:01 PM
And of course no "McCann sceptic would ever use anything stronger than "bother" 8)-)))
Exactly!!
I've been called disgusting names in the past three years or so just for voicing my opinion. God knows what I would have been called if I'd accused someone of being involved in a crime such as hiding a child's body.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Swearing is a language in its own right. I cringe when I hear people swear incorrectly. It shows a lack of knowledge of the principle in an attempt to appear cool. imho of course. Consider the word "f**k". It is one of the most versatile words in our language having properties like no other. It can be an adjective or adverb It can be a verb avalent, transitive, intransitive and ditransitive. It can be a noun It can be both prefix and suffix. A cool versatile word when used correctly. The question is when KM said f*****g t****r was f*****g used as an adjective?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: DCI on April 02, 2015, 05:09:33 PM
Swearing is a language in its own right. I cringe when I hear people swear incorrectly. It shows a lack of knowledge of the principle in an attempt to appear cool. imho of course. Consider the word "f**k". It is one of the most versatile words in our language having properties like no other. It can be an adjective or adverb It can be a verb avalent, transitive, intransitive and ditransitive. It can be a noun It can be both prefix and suffix. A cool versatile word when used correctly. The question is when KM said f*****g t****r was f*****g used as an adjective?
Funny, I have just read an article about a father shouting F*****g T****r in court, at a chap that killed his son.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 02, 2015, 06:31:09 PM
Consider for a moment, would one consider the comment ,"f.....g tosser f.....g tosser" published in Kate McCann's book and directed at a named Portuguese police officer Ricardo Paiva to be grossly abusive or offensive?
Why then is a similar comment directed at Kate McCann any different?
Or is it a case of, one Law for them and another for the rest of us? 8)-)))
31
Just noticed this thread ... and felt the need to respond
Whilst I am too "lily livered" to use such an expression myself, 8**8:/: I loved it
Well done Kate:
[ moderated ]
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 10:19:03 AM
The words were used in court this week by a bereaved father...no one has criticised him.
If Kate had used them loudly directed at a supermarket cashier who got her change wrong that would be totally different to her mumbling them under her breath in the situation she was in....that's called context.
If you cannot see that you are just showing how severely biased your opinions are.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 03, 2015, 11:12:06 AM
the fact that you say it is never acceptable to use bad language shows what an outlier you are as regards the general population and therefore your views and opinions are extreme...are you some sort of religious fundamentalist?
How sad that people find incomprehensible a point of view that was generally accepted in my youth. Was it that long ago? I know the world has moved on (I live in it) and the widespread use of bad language is, in my opinion, not a good thing. It shows how much the world has moved on when someone who finds swearing offensive is considered an extremist.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 11:19:02 AM
How sad that people find incomprehensible a point of view that was generally accepted in my youth. Was it that long ago? I know the world has moved on (I live in it) and the widespread use of bad language is, in my opinion, not a good thing. It shows how much the world has moved on when someone who finds swearing offensive is considered an extremist.
You posted...using bad language is acceptable. My position is clear - never.......that's what sets you apart...your use of the word never......most people accept that whilst bad language should not be used there are instances when the provocation is so great that it is understandable.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2015, 11:27:01 AM
How sad that people find incomprehensible a point of view that was generally accepted in my youth. Was it that long ago? I know the world has moved on (I live in it) and the widespread use of bad language is, in my opinion, not a good thing. It shows how much the world has moved on when someone who finds swearing offensive is considered an extremist.
It would seem the only occasion bad language is offensive is if it is, wrongly as it turned out, directed at the McCanns. I remember the supporters beong apoplectic when they thought Amaral had said 'f**k the McCanns' after a libel hearing. Of course he hadn't but I seem to remember that context wasn't considered in that instance. If my livelihood had been wrenched from me, my refutation pulled through the mud and my assists frozen I think I could be forgiven for directing the odd expletive in the direction of my detractors.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 03, 2015, 11:32:12 AM
That is probably what Kate's mother called them all when she wanted to shake every one of them. 8(0(* The first thing she said was "Where were you?"
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Matthew Wyse on April 03, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
It would seem the only occasion bad language is offensive is if it is, wrongly as it turned out, directed at the McCanns. I remember the supporters beong apoplectic when they thought Amaral had said 'f**k the McCanns' after a libel hearing. Of course he hadn't but I seem to remember that context wasn't considered in that instance. If my livelihood had been wrenched from me, my refutation pulled through the mud and my assists frozen I think I could be forgiven for directing the odd expletive in the direction of my detractors.
I wouldnt blame him for cursing them
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 11:35:41 AM
It would seem the only occasion bad language is offensive is if it is, wrongly as it turned out, directed at the McCanns. I remember the supporters beong apoplectic when they thought Amaral had said 'f**k the McCanns' after a libel hearing. Of course he hadn't but I seem to remember that context wasn't considered in that instance. If my livelihood had been wrenched from me, my refutation pulled through the mud and my assists frozen I think I could be forgiven for directing the odd expletive in the direction of my detractors.
so you agree it's all about context
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 03, 2015, 11:36:34 AM
You posted...using bad language is acceptable. My position is clear - never.......that's what sets you apart...your use of the word never......most people accept that whilst bad language should not be used there are instances when the provocation is so great that it is understandable.
I very rarely heard it as a child, and accepted the general opinion that it was unacceptable. I found other ways of making my feelings known. Easy.
From an American point of view, but I agree (don't think they're fundamentalists);
What's Wrong With Swearing?
Swearing Imposes a Personal Penalty It gives a bad impression It makes you unpleasant to be with It endangers your relationships It's a tool for whiners and complainers It reduces respect people have for you It shows you don't have control It's a sign of a bad attitude It discloses a lack of character It's immature It reflects ignorance It sets a bad example
Swearing is Bad for Society It contributes to the decline of civility It represents the dumbing down of America It offends more people than you think It makes others uncomfortable It is disrespectful of others It turns discussions into arguments It can be a sign of hostility It can lead to violence
Swearing corrupts the English language It's abrasive, lazy language It doesn't communicate clearly It neglects more meaningful words It lacks imagination It has lost its effectiveness http://www.cusscontrol.com/swearing.html
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2015, 11:37:37 AM
I cant understand all the fuss about Kate calling Riccardo Paiva a f******g t****r, when from the photo he sent of himself on the internet to some poor woman clearly shows that he was one.
Why isn't there any fuss about him sending an unsolicited nude photo of himself ?"waving" his truncheon around on the internet ? Why is everyone so happy about that but picking on Kate for telling the truth?
DOUBLE STANDARDS!
Oh I don't think it was 'unsolicited' sadie but looking at the sting in context it does show who desperate certain factions were to discredit Pavia after his 'dream' evidence at the libel hearing.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 12:30:04 PM
I very rarely heard it as a child, and accepted the general opinion that it was unacceptable. I found other ways of making my feelings known. Easy.
From an American point of view, but I agree (don't think they're fundamentalists);
What's Wrong With Swearing?
Swearing Imposes a Personal Penalty It gives a bad impression It makes you unpleasant to be with It endangers your relationships It's a tool for whiners and complainers It reduces respect people have for you It shows you don't have control It's a sign of a bad attitude It discloses a lack of character It's immature It reflects ignorance It sets a bad example
Swearing is Bad for Society It contributes to the decline of civility It represents the dumbing down of America It offends more people than you think It makes others uncomfortable It is disrespectful of others It turns discussions into arguments It can be a sign of hostility It can lead to violence
Swearing corrupts the English language It's abrasive, lazy language It doesn't communicate clearly It neglects more meaningful words It lacks imagination It has lost its effectiveness http://www.cusscontrol.com/swearing.html
America is full of fundamentalists...looks like I hit the nail on the head
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 03, 2015, 12:35:23 PM
I very rarely heard it as a child, and accepted the general opinion that it was unacceptable. I found other ways of making my feelings known. Easy.
From an American point of view, but I agree (don't think they're fundamentalists);
What's Wrong With Swearing?
Swearing Imposes a Personal Penalty It gives a bad impression It makes you unpleasant to be with It endangers your relationships It's a tool for whiners and complainers It reduces respect people have for you It shows you don't have control It's a sign of a bad attitude It discloses a lack of character It's immature It reflects ignorance It sets a bad example
Swearing is Bad for Society It contributes to the decline of civility It represents the dumbing down of America It offends more people than you think It makes others uncomfortable It is disrespectful of others It turns discussions into arguments It can be a sign of hostility It can lead to violence
Swearing corrupts the English language It's abrasive, lazy language It doesn't communicate clearly It neglects more meaningful words It lacks imagination It has lost its effectiveness http://www.cusscontrol.com/swearing.html
A British take on the matter ... "Never say a word you don't want God to hear" ... I think that might encompass far more than the F word and I think the Drs McCann have suffered more than most.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 12:53:30 PM
Could it be related to the title of the thread? I find the words offensive full stop. No-one seems to be saying they're not offensive full stop. The question is quite clear, but the answers are anything but.
I don't find what Kate said in any way offensive...not in the slightest
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 03, 2015, 02:34:41 PM
It would seem the only occasion bad language is offensive is if it is, wrongly as it turned out, directed at the McCanns. I remember the supporters beong apoplectic when they thought Amaral had said 'f**k the McCanns' after a libel hearing. Of course he hadn't but I seem to remember that context wasn't considered in that instance. If my livelihood had been wrenched from me, my refutation pulled through the mud and my assists frozen I think I could be forgiven for directing the odd expletive in the direction of my detractors.
LOL. but you struggle to understand how anyone could mutter a swear word under their breath at a man who they felt was falsely accusing them of hiding the body of their little daughter and trying to pressure a confession out of them? That's totally reasonable of you. Not.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 03, 2015, 02:35:52 PM
To Fornicate Under the Command of the King.. You all know the abbreviated version. I never swore in my childrens presence, but sometimes in adult company to repeat a joke or someones conversations I do swear. But not directed at anyone. which is gross bad manners.
I admire G for her stance with regards to her beliefs. I am perpelxed at the usual crew baying at her for doing so.
Kate made a point in her book, like she was giving them the 'bird' as it were... IMO She was going tpo have the last laugh...ppft
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 03, 2015, 02:46:12 PM
It seems no-one except me finds the comment offensive in itself. Everyone else seems to be saying that such comments can be offensive or justified depending on who says it and who they say it to.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 03, 2015, 02:46:48 PM
To Fornicate Under the Command of the King.. You all know the abbreviated version. I never swore in my childrens presence, but sometimes in adult company to repeat a joke or someones conversations I do swear. But not directed at anyone. which is gross bad manners.
I admire G for her stance with regards to her beliefs. I am perpelxed at the usual crew baying at her for doing so.
Kate made a point in her book, like she was giving them the 'bird' as it were... IMO She was going tpo have the last laugh...ppft
First bit me too. Second bit I am not. They respond involuntarily to certain stimuli. It is probably akin to OCD.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 03, 2015, 02:52:56 PM
To Fornicate Under the Command of the King.. You all know the abbreviated version. I never swore in my childrens presence, but sometimes in adult company to repeat a joke or someones conversations I do swear. But not directed at anyone. which is gross bad manners.
I admire G for her stance with regards to her beliefs. I am perpelxed at the usual crew baying at her for doing so.
Kate made a point in her book, like she was giving them the 'bird' as it were... IMO She was going tpo have the last laugh...ppft
You admire g for her stance re her beliefs but admonish those who take a different stance...that's hypocrisy for you...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 03, 2015, 03:11:51 PM
I stand up for my opinions as should everyone. I expect to be attacked whatever I say so no surprises there. I find it quite amusing when some people can't sustain their opinions without some quite convoluted mental gymnastics. Fair play to davel, he seems to be saying there's nothing offensive about that comment at all, no matter who uses it or where or why. In my opinion that's the only answer that counts. Once you allow context into the debate it's down to personal opinion, and we will all disagree. There may be no 'right' answer, but I have one that I am happy with and I can give my reasons for it.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 03:25:50 PM
I stand up for my opinions as should everyone. I expect to be attacked whatever I say so no surprises there. I find it quite amusing when some people can't sustain their opinions without some quite convoluted mental gymnastics. Fair play to davel, he seems to be saying there's nothing offensive about that comment at all, no matter who uses it or where or why. In my opinion that's the only answer that counts. Once you allow context into the debate it's down to personal opinion, and we will all disagree. There may be no 'right' answer, but I have one that I am happy with and I can give my reasons for it.
That isn't what I have said...in fact I have said the opposite...from one of my posts today..
The words were used in court this week by a bereaved father...no one has criticised him.
If Kate had used them loudly directed at a supermarket cashier who got her change wrong that would be totally different to her mumbling them under her breath in the situation she was in....that's called context.
If you cannot see that you are just showing how severely biased your opinions are.
Context is important.......it isn't just personal opinion we have laws....using those words in some situations could result in a criminal charge...in others not
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 03, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
That isn't what I have said...in fact I have said the opposite...from one of my posts today..
The words were used in court this week by a bereaved father...no one has criticised him.
If Kate had used them loudly directed at a supermarket cashier who got her change wrong that would be totally different to her mumbling them under her breath in the situation she was in....that's called context.
If you cannot see that you are just showing how severely biased your opinions are.
Context is important.......it isn't just personal opinion we have laws....using those words in some situations could result in a criminal charge...in others not
So the comment is only offensive if;
The law says so.
The comment is not offensive;
So long as it's not illegal and you say it isn't because in your opinion it was justified?
Right, got it. 8((()*/
PS read the comments about the man in court - loss of dignity is mentioned by someone who seems to think shouting abuse in court might not be such a great idea.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2015, 03:59:08 PM
So long as it's not illegal and you say it isn't because in your opinion it was justified?
Right, got it. 8((()*/
PS read the comments about the man in court - loss of dignity is mentioned by someone who seems to think shouting abuse in court might not be such a great idea.
It's a matter of opinion...simple as that. I think the vast majority of people would understand that the father in court is understandable...I'm sure most of the comments were supportive and very, very few critical.
Although it is a matter of opinion but there would come time when it would be seen as against the law. The man was not arrested in this case. What you should understand is that people have different opinions and their opinions are just as valid as yours.
If you go to the beach you ill see lots of women with no tops on...it is considered acceptable...can you imagine them walking around the supermarket with no top...it's a matter of context
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2015, 10:45:33 PM
LOL. but you struggle to understand how anyone could mutter a swear word under their breath at a man who they felt was falsely accusing them of hiding the body of their little daughter and trying to pressure a confession out of them? That's totally reasonable of you. Not.
So you wouldn't have minded if Amaral had said 'f**k the McCanns ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 04, 2015, 09:43:29 AM
I don't think Kates language was offensive ...I think paiva was disgusting..thats it ..end of converastion
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 10:03:23 AM
I think the words going through Dr Kate McCann's mind as a defence mechanism ... pale into insignificance when the abusive onslaught she was being subjected to is taken into consideration.
There are very few posters posting here who would have been able to withstand that level of mental torture.
It is revealing that words ... which were not uttered ... can cause you such offence ~ but the aggressive and false allegations she was subject to does not.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 04, 2015, 10:09:34 AM
I think the words going through Dr Kate McCann's mind as a defence mechanism ... pale into insignificance when the abusive onslaught she was being subjected to is taken into consideration.
There are very few posters posting here who would have been able to withstand that level of mental torture.
It is revealing that words ... which were not uttered ... can cause you such offence ~ but the aggressive and false allegations she was subject to does not.
Yes it's very revealing that posters should find Kate's words...which were not even said out loud...offensive...but are willing to overlook her appalling treatment at the hands of the pj. We have seen from the cipriano pictures just how sadistic these men are.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 04, 2015, 10:26:23 AM
I think the words going through Dr Kate McCann's mind as a defence mechanism ... pale into insignificance when the abusive onslaught she was being subjected to is taken into consideration.
There are very few posters posting here who would have been able to withstand that level of mental torture.
It is revealing that words ... which were not uttered ... can cause you such offence ~ but the aggressive and false allegations she was subject to does not.
She was suspected of having a role in her daughter's disappearance. How do you expect police officers to act ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 10:53:56 AM
I think the words going through Dr Kate McCann's mind as a defence mechanism ... pale into insignificance when the abusive onslaught she was being subjected to is taken into consideration.
There are very few posters posting here who would have been able to withstand that level of mental torture.
It is revealing that words ... which were not uttered ... can cause you such offence ~ but the aggressive and false allegations she was subject to does not.
Not uttered and wouldn't have been known about had they not been written in a book for all to see. The words don't offend me, they would only offend me if they were said to me. They are, however, intrinsically offensive.
There is a record of this interview in the PJ files. Three police officers and Kate McCann's lawyer were present, as was an interpreter chosen by Kate from a list 'provided by the consulate' (British?). It lasted 3.5 hours. She was shown the video of the dog alerts as was Gerald McCann in his interview. she was asked other questions which she refused to answer. As a human rights lawyer her lawyer should have spoken up if anything resembling torture took place.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 04, 2015, 12:45:39 PM
The transcripts of interviews with Kate and Gerry McCann came from notes made by a police officer because the sessions were not recorded. According to the files, Mr McCann was told on September 7 that Madeleine's DNA was discovered in the boot of the rented Renault Scenic, and behind a sofa in the family's holiday apartment. "Confronted with the fact that Madeleine's DNA was gathered from behind the sofa and from the boot of the vehicle, and analysed by a British laboratory, he said he could not explain why this would be," the officer wrote. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2501055/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-detectives-lied-to-Gerry-McCann-about-DNA-evidence.html
MADELEINE paragraph 2 page 312 Kate McCann
When Gerry asked to see the DNA report, Ricardo became quite flustered, waving PC Grime's document in the air and saying, 'It is the dogs that are important!'
Ah it comes from Madeleine so not a reliable source then.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 12:47:25 PM
The transcripts of interviews with Kate and Gerry McCann came from notes made by a police officer because the sessions were not recorded. According to the files, Mr McCann was told on September 7 that Madeleine's DNA was discovered in the boot of the rented Renault Scenic, and behind a sofa in the family's holiday apartment. "Confronted with the fact that Madeleine's DNA was gathered from behind the sofa and from the boot of the vehicle, and analysed by a British laboratory, he said he could not explain why this would be," the officer wrote. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2501055/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-detectives-lied-to-Gerry-McCann-about-DNA-evidence.html
MADELEINE paragraph 2 page 312 Kate McCann
When Gerry asked to see the DNA report, Ricardo became quite flustered, waving PC Grime's document in the air and saying, 'It is the dogs that are important!'
Hearsay.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 01:08:03 PM
Hmmm ... not an entirely unexpected response but a rather hypocritical one.
I don't think you should make a pretence of fence sitting which is always a very uncomfortable position.
You see ... the only provenance for Kate McCann's F...T... statement is from exactly the same source I have used, different page; but you have seen fit to make a song and dance out of that particular piece of 'hearsay'.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 01:18:47 PM
Hmmm ... not an entirely unexpected response but a rather hypocritical one.
I don't think you should make a pretence of fence sitting which is always a very uncomfortable position.
You see ... the only provenance for Kate McCann's F...T... statement is from exactly the same source I have used, different page; but you have seen fit to make a song and dance out of that particular piece of 'hearsay'.
It's one thing to report something said by yourself and something someone else tells you they said. Primary source, secondary source. Not recorded in interview record.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 04, 2015, 02:07:16 PM
Ah it comes from Madeleine so not a reliable source then.
As does the f..king tossers quote, ergo she probably never said it all, ergo this thread is a complete waste of time, eh Faithlilly? Surprised you're still discussing it actually seeing as how it's never been of interest to you until now.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 04, 2015, 02:12:59 PM
She, or her ghost writer did put it into print, though, even if she never actually said it. To me, printing it is worse that saying it on the spur of the moment.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 04, 2015, 02:14:43 PM
She, or her ghost writer did put it into print, though, even if she never actually said it. To me, printing it is worse that saying it on the spur of the moment.
have you got a cite for your assertion that the book was ghost written please?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 04, 2015, 02:18:58 PM
have you got a cite for your assertion that the book was ghost written please?
No, it was an either or option not an assertion that a ghost writer was used. If there was no ghost writer, then she is responsible for what was printed.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
No, it was an either or option not an assertion that a ghost writer was used. If there was no ghost writer, then she is responsible for what was printed.
I think she's responsible either way because she would have agreed with what was written before putting her name to it.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 03:32:42 PM
She, or her ghost writer did put it into print, though, even if she never actually said it. To me, printing it is worse that saying it on the spur of the moment.
Nope ... cherry picking quotes to suit your particular agenda is really questionable, particularly when dissing quotes from the same source which don't suit.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 04, 2015, 03:39:40 PM
Nope ... cherry picking quotes to suit your particular agenda is really questionable, particularly when dissing quotes from the same source which don't suit.
Like to show me which quotes I've dissed ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 04, 2015, 03:45:19 PM
My goodness it must be exhausting defending the McCanns. They really haven't made it easy have they ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 03:49:25 PM
My goodness it must be exhausting defending the McCanns. They really haven't made it easy have they ?
I would be as happy to follow that link as I would be to watch another Taylor video ... glad to see you have kissed and made up after his little indiscretion.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 04, 2015, 03:55:19 PM
I would be as happy to follow that link as I would be to watch another Taylor video ... glad to see you have kissed and made up after his little indiscretion.
@)(++(* I'm glad that you're glad Brietta though I'm not entirely sure why.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 04:06:29 PM
I'm glad that you're glad that I am glad ... makes the world such a brighter place. ?>)()<
@)(++(* 8(>((
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 04, 2015, 06:03:34 PM
I'd just like to put it in print that I think both Amaral and Paiva are fully deserving of the term "f..king tosser" and I do apologise deeply for any offence this horrid term causes those of you with a delicate disposition.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 04, 2015, 06:05:46 PM
Shocked I am, absolutely shocked @)(++(*
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 04, 2015, 06:15:26 PM
I knew you would be, I could tell from your photograph that you'd be easily shocked. 8)--))
Things were so different when Victoria was on the throne - abuse was something that only happened to one's servants . ?{)(**
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 07:57:37 PM
I think I've seen the light Brietta. It came to me all of a sudden. I'm converted to the truth. Out vile doubters! Can I join your gang? 8**8:/: 8**8:/: 8**8:/:
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 04, 2015, 08:04:29 PM
I think I've seen the light Brietta. It came to me all of a sudden. I'm converted to the truth. Out vile doubters! Can I join your gang? 8**8:/: 8**8:/: 8**8:/:
You have your own values...your own standards...could you tell me why you think we should all live our lives by your values
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 08:12:03 PM
Do I want you all to live by my standards? No. Do what I did, work it all out for yourself and live by your own standards.
And yet you repeatedly judge the McCanns by your standards and every time you do you find that they fail to meet your standards, and you delight in reminding us of this fact. Yawn.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 08:18:27 PM
And you have never lambasted the McCanns? "no not ever M'Lud - I'm a nice girl I am innit".
No I have not! And that's an emphatic no! What's all this 'innit' all of a sudden? I won't be answering any more posts about my philosophy of life as we're off topic and it's all a wind up IMO.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 04, 2015, 08:27:00 PM
Kate McCann did not say these words aloud!!!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 08:28:27 PM
I think I've seen the light Brietta. It came to me all of a sudden. I'm converted to the truth. Out vile doubters! Can I join your gang? 8**8:/: 8**8:/: 8**8:/:
Sadly since being drummed out of the Sons of Silence for showing some empathy, I've been a gang of one ... but keep up heading for the light, you may find it beneficial.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: slartibartfast on April 04, 2015, 08:45:14 PM
Strangely enough, I can accept her saying it during the interview, I can also accept her saying it to Gerry afterwards, but yet again you have to wonder at the motive behind putting it in the book.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 04, 2015, 08:56:09 PM
Strangely enough, I can accept her saying it during the interview, I can also accept her saying it to Gerry afterwards, but yet again you have to wonder at the motive behind putting it in the book.
Kate McCann said it helped her to get through the questioning, it helped her hold it together.
I can understand that, repeating something over and over, trying to calm yourself. It must have been an horrific experience, no doubt she felt she was going to start screaming and shouting.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: slartibartfast on April 04, 2015, 09:01:53 PM
Kate McCann said it helped her to get through the questioning, it helped her hold it together.
I can understand that, repeating something over and over, trying to calm yourself. It must have been an horrific experience, no doubt she felt she was going to start screaming and shouting.
...but why put it in the book...?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Strangely enough, I can accept her saying it during the interview, I can also accept her saying it to Gerry afterwards, but yet again you have to wonder at the motive behind putting it in the book.
To show how her innocence made her strong perhaps? To show how nasty as well as bungling the Portuguese police were? Poor judgement? Definitely.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2015, 09:20:15 PM
Kate McCann said it helped her to get through the questioning, it helped her hold it together.
I can understand that, repeating something over and over, trying to calm yourself. It must have been an horrific experience, no doubt she felt she was going to start screaming and shouting.
Perhaps a few Hail Mary's would have been more appropriate?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 04, 2015, 09:30:31 PM
Exactly, so why are people so disgusted at something she said under her breath? We have all done it, well at least I have and a lot, just lately. We don't know what she was going through at that time with a person who was previously thought of as a friend.
And why shouldn't she put it in her book, if it was the truth and nothing to be ashamed of. IMO.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 05, 2015, 02:02:29 PM
Exactly, so why are people so disgusted at something she said under her breath? We have all done it, well at least I have and a lot, just lately. We don't know what she was going through at that time with a person who was previously thought of as a friend.
And why shouldn't shce put it in her book, if it was the truth and nothing to be ashamed of. IMO.
So if anyone else was to describe the mccanns in the same way, without saying it out loud, that is also perfectly acceptable as well.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Matthew Wyse on April 05, 2015, 02:09:13 PM
Exactly, so why are people so disgusted at something she said under her breath? We have all done it, well at least I have and a lot, just lately. We don't know what she was going through at that time with a person who was previously thought of as a friend.
And why shouldn't she put it in her book, if it was the truth and nothing to be ashamed of. IMO.
That comment was engineered. It does not matter how many times Kate McCann whispered profanities under her breath the point which appears to be lost or at least overlooked by supporters is that she engineered the comment into her book in order to make a statement.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 05, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
That comment was engineered. It does not matter how many times Kate McCann whispered profanities under her breath the point which appears to be lost or at least overlooked by supporters is that she engineered the comment into her book in order to make a point.
Precisely.
It was done for effect and in an attempt to draw sympathy.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Matthew Wyse on April 05, 2015, 02:11:13 PM
It was done for effect and in an attempt to draw sympathy.
If you do not believe it ever happened(under her breath mantra) and was only an elaborated comment in her book, what is there to complain about? Don't all authors do the same?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 05, 2015, 02:23:50 PM
If you do not believe it ever happened(under her breath mantra) and was only an elaborated comment in her book, what is there to complain about? Don't all authors do the same?
As far as I am concerned, it was done in the book along with other 'expressions' for very calculated reasons.
As to what other things she may have have said to family and friends as regards Paiva or anyone else, that simply reveals her mind-set.
It is also a sign of the times when people don't take real responsibility for their own actions, and blame someone who was doing his job.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: sadie on April 05, 2015, 02:27:31 PM
The PJ, in their interview with GM, deliberately lied about the "evidence" they purported to have.
"During this interview several films of a forensic nature showing sniffer dogs were shown where their signalling can be seen regarding indication of cadaver odour and traces of blood also human, and only of a human nature, as well as the comments made by the expert in charge of the procedure. -- After viewing the films and after the signalling of cadaver odour in their room next to the wardrobe and behind the sofa against the window in the living room, he says that he has no comments, neither has he any explanation for this fact. --- Also, the dog that detects human blood signalled human blood behind the sofa mentioned above, he says that he cannot explain this fact. -- Regarding the cadaver odour in the car that was rented at the end of May, (xx)-DA-27, he says he cannot explain more than what he already has. --- Regarding the presence of human blood in the boot of the same vehicle, he says that he has not explanation for this fact. -- When confronted with the fact that Madeleine's DNA was collected from behind the sofa and in the boot of the vehicle and analyzed by a British laboratory, situations also described before, he says that he cannot explain. --- When asked if on any occasion Madeleine was injured, he says that he has no comments."
So it is not inconceivable that they used the same tactics with KM.
Can you think of a reason why a police force would deliberately lie about evidence, Stephen?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 05, 2015, 02:54:44 PM
The PJ, in their interview with GM, deliberately lied about the "evidence" they purported to have.
"During this interview several films of a forensic nature showing sniffer dogs were shown where their signalling can be seen regarding indication of cadaver odour and traces of blood also human, and only of a human nature, as well as the comments made by the expert in charge of the procedure. -- After viewing the films and after the signalling of cadaver odour in their room next to the wardrobe and behind the sofa against the window in the living room, he says that he has no comments, neither has he any explanation for this fact. --- Also, the dog that detects human blood signalled human blood behind the sofa mentioned above, he says that he cannot explain this fact. -- Regarding the cadaver odour in the car that was rented at the end of May, (xx)-DA-27, he says he cannot explain more than what he already has. --- Regarding the presence of human blood in the boot of the same vehicle, he says that he has not explanation for this fact. -- When confronted with the fact that Madeleine's DNA was collected from behind the sofa and in the boot of the vehicle and analyzed by a British laboratory, situations also described before, he says that he cannot explain. --- When asked if on any occasion Madeleine was injured, he says that he has no comments."
So it is not inconceivable that they used the same tactics with KM.
Can you think of a reason why a police force would deliberately lie about evidence, Stephen?
Are you aware JP of 'standard police practices' around the world when questioning suspects whom they believe guilty of a crime and who do not have absolute proof of it ?
As to framing the mccanns, that's crap.
They were in the frame, as they would have been if Madeleine disappeared over in the UK.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 05, 2015, 02:57:04 PM
Are you aware JP of 'standard police practices' around the world when questioning suspects whom they believe guilty of a crime and who do not have absolute proof of it ?
As to framing the mccanns, that's crap.
They were in the frame, as they would have been if Madeleine disappeared over in the UK.
Very aware Stephen.
One of the reasons why having proper representation is so important.
But also a particularly stupid tactic.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 05, 2015, 03:00:12 PM
One of the reasons why having proper representation is so important.
But also a particularly stupid tactic.
It is used worldwide, including in the UK.
As you will be were also, evidence is not always forthcoming, and many police work on what is called their 'gut instinct'.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2015, 04:01:55 PM
I think the comment was included in the book simply as part of the McCann's immediate and ongoing campaign to discredit the Portuguese police. Those who have joined in with this campaign of hate are just demonstrating their gullibility.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: misty on April 05, 2015, 04:07:37 PM
I think the comment was included in the book simply as part of the McCann's immediate and ongoing campaign to discredit the Portuguese police. Those who have joined in with this campaign of hate are just demonstrating their gullibility.
Several of the Portuguese officers involved in the McCann investigation discredited themselves without any input from the McCanns.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 05, 2015, 04:08:02 PM
I think the comment was included in the book simply as part of the McCann's immediate and ongoing campaign to discredit the Portuguese police. Those who have joined in with this campaign of hate are just demonstrating their gullibility.
It never ceases to amaze me the utter contempt the McCanns display for their supporter's intelligence.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Eleanor on April 05, 2015, 04:08:14 PM
I think the comment was included in the book simply as part of the McCann's immediate and ongoing campaign to discredit the Portuguese police. Those who have joined in with this campaign of hate are just demonstrating their gullibility.
What Hate would that be? No one Hates Amaral. He was just a very stupid man with vast problems of his own long before Madeleine was even born. McCann Supporters don't Hate anyone. They, sorry, We are only too much aware of what a very damaged man he is. And of how immoral he had become.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 05, 2015, 04:13:50 PM
What Hate would that be? No one Hates Amaral. He was just a very stupid man with vast problems of his own long before Madeleine was even born. McCann Supporters don't Hate anyone. They, sorry, We are only too much aware of what a very damaged man he is. And of how immoral he had become.
@)(++(* Can I borrow your pink spectacles ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 05, 2015, 04:30:18 PM
As you will be were also, evidence is not always forthcoming, and many police work on what is called their 'gut instinct'.
Stephen you may not be aware that there is a fundamental difference between what can braodly be termed collaborative and what can broadly be termed combative systems. In the former, the police and legal teams (in theory at least) work together to discover the truth. This means that the police heading off on a vague fishing expedition can damage the process.
Gut instinct? Do me a favour. It is police and prosecutors heading off a path divergent from the evidence that leads to nonsenses like the Kercher case.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 05, 2015, 04:36:40 PM
Pause for thought: All Portuguese police are incompetent or it was unlucky that all the rotten apples wound up on a single case (The disappearance of MM) or the upper hierarchy in the Portuguese judiciary thought " we don't really care about this case it's only a foreigner after all so lets put all our f*****g t*****s on it to keep them off the important stuff". &%+((£
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Eleanor on April 05, 2015, 04:39:34 PM
You wouldn't know how to wear them, presuming that I owned such things. My mind isn't distorted by unkindness, or spectacles.
I don't actually have an opinion about Kate's comment, neither under her breath or in her book. But I suspect that given the same circumstances, I could have though of much worse to say.
I have never in all of my life used The C Word. But I might have done if I was her at that time.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 05, 2015, 04:44:13 PM
I think the comment was included in the book simply as part of the McCann's immediate and ongoing campaign to discredit the Portuguese police. Those who have joined in with this campaign of hate are just demonstrating their gullibility.
do you believe that Kate McCann never actually uttered the phrase f..king tossers under her breath?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 05, 2015, 04:46:00 PM
It never ceases to amaze me the utter contempt the McCanns display for their supporter's intelligence.
Well, there's not a lot of evidence for their intelligence either in my opinion. Look at all those much heralded detectives who got 'loads a money' for doing nothing. Look at Krugel and his machine. Look at the psychics and mediums; giving credence to them is against the teaching of their church.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 05, 2015, 05:02:01 PM
Well, there's not a lot of evidence for their intelligence either in my opinion. Look at all those much heralded detectives who got 'loads a money' for doing nothing. Look at Krugel and his machine. Look at the psychics and mediums; giving credence to them is against the teaching of their church.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 05, 2015, 05:06:31 PM
Well, there's not a lot of evidence for their intelligence either in my opinion. Look at all those much heralded detectives who got 'loads a money' for doing nothing. Look at Krugel and his machine. Look at the psychics and mediums; giving credence to them is against the teaching of their church.
Sadly, it's often when you're at your most vulnerable that con artists move in.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 05, 2015, 05:08:41 PM
Sadly, it's often when you're at your most vulnerable that con artists move in.
So they were clever enough to suss the Portuguese police out within a couple of hours, but not clever enough to suss the phony detectives out? You can't have it both ways, they're either perceptive or not. %£&)**#
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 05, 2015, 05:13:57 PM
So they were clever enough to suss the Portuguese police out within a couple of hours, but not clever enough to suss the phony detectives out? You can't have it both ways, they're either perceptive or not. %£&)**#
Perhaps they preferred to go private as that way they could control the direction of the investigation.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 05, 2015, 05:14:12 PM
So they were clever enough to suss the Portuguese police out within a couple of hours, but not clever enough to suss the phony detectives out? You can't have it both ways, they're either perceptive or not. %£&)**#
It's less to do with intelligence and more to do with desperation. I doubt you'd understand - you don't strike me as particularly empathetic.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2015, 05:18:11 PM
But only if there is a well advertised pile of dosh about.
Where did that enormous reward originate? NotW was involved - it may have been done with good intentions (and a guaranteed increase in sales), but wasn't necessarily helpful.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2015, 05:23:13 PM
Are you aware JP of 'standard police practices' around the world when questioning suspects whom they believe guilty of a crime and who do not have absolute proof of it ?
As to framing the mccanns, that's crap.
They were in the frame, as they would have been if Madeleine disappeared over in the UK.
Very much doubt that, Stephen, had Madeleine vanished in the UK the first people to be 'in the frame' or eliminated from the inquiry would have been those closest to her. The police would have followed the evidence, not decided what had happened then tried to make the evidence fit.
Not one of the British liaison officers found anything to be suspicious about during their assignment to the family ... and I have never heard of the senior British officer in a missing child case he had botched writing a book of spite to implicate the parents.
In the circumstances the words ~ "f.....g tosser" ~ which it should be remembered were not actually said aloud seem to me to be quite appropriate and far less offensive than the lies and accusations levelled at the Drs Mccann.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2015, 05:27:00 PM
Where did that enormous reward originate? NotW was involved - it may have been done with good intentions (and a guaranteed increase in sales), but wasn't necessarily helpful.
Why was the reward unhelpful? No PI's got that. I know where it went after the NoW closed, and it wasn't that enormous as most of it was pledges.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 05, 2015, 05:31:31 PM
Very much doubt that, Stephen, had Madeleine vanished in the UK the first people to be 'in the frame' or eliminated from the inquiry would have been those closest to her. The police would have followed the evidence, not decided what had happened then tried to make the evidence fit.
Not one of the British liaison officers found anything to be suspicious about during their assignment to the family ... and I have never heard of the senior British officer in a missing child case he had botched writing a book of spite to implicate the parents.
In the circumstances the words ~ "f.....g tosser" ~ which it should be remembered were not actually said aloud seem to me to be quite appropriate and far less offensive than the lies and accusations levelled at the Drs Mccann.
The British liaison officers may have found nothing suspicious in the McCann's behaviour but the Portuguese liaison officer, who it could be argued spent much more time with them, certainly did.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 05, 2015, 05:35:23 PM
Even then rumour said some of the investigators (Oakley) criticised the parents! Fancy paying to be criticised. @)(++(*
If you mean the Sunday Times' article, the ST ended up paying £55k to children's charities. Methinks the journos working on that article hadn't done much homework.
And that's a problem - once the smear is out there, an apology on page 2000 tends to get ignored.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 05, 2015, 05:46:14 PM
Stephen you may not be aware that there is a fundamental difference between what can braodly be termed collaborative and what can broadly be termed combative systems. In the former, the police and legal teams (in theory at least) work together to discover the truth. This means that the police heading off on a vague fishing expedition can damage the process.
Gut instinct? Do me a favour. It is police and prosecutors heading off a path divergent from the evidence that leads to nonsenses like the Kercher case.
So you are saying 100% that a police officer's gut instinct is always wrong.
As you are well aware JP, some cases offer little in the way of useful evidence.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 05, 2015, 06:15:04 PM
So you are saying 100% that a police officer's gut instinct is always wrong.
As you are well aware JP, some cases offer little in the way of useful evidence.
If a case offers little by way of useful evidence, then the sensible course of action is to look harder or in different place for useful evidence to take the case forward.
And clearly not 100% always wrong - but a police officer's gut instinct unsupported by, or even against the evidence, stands too high a chance of being wrong. Criminal law is not a computer game or a reality TV show. There are real consequences for real live people.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Anna on April 05, 2015, 06:38:57 PM
Can we get Back on the topic of the thread please Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?.
Off topic posts will be deleted Thank you.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: John on April 06, 2015, 04:26:31 AM
There is no doubt that Paiva was rather foolish in succumbing to temptation but has it ever been discovered who was behind it? The Sun undoubtedly has this information since they revealed the story but just how involved were they bearing in mind the recent criminal prosecutions of journalists at their former sister publication.
When police take the parents of a missing infant in for interview it goes without saying that they expect said parents to answer every question and provide their full cooperation. If this does not happen police are entitled to consider other possibilities including parental involvement.
Ricardo Paiva was not sent in to Praia da Luz to nursemaid the McCanns, he was sent in to watch, listen, learn and report back. This was his job and this was what he did.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 08:10:43 AM
There is no doubt that Paiva was rather foolish in succumbing to temptation but has it ever been discovered who was behind it? The Sun undoubtedly has this information since they revealed the story but just how involved were they bearing in mind the recent criminal prosecutions of journalists at their former sister publication.
When police take the parents of a missing infant in for interview it goes without saying that they expect said parents to answer ever question and provide their full cooperation. If this does not happen police are entitled to consider other possibilities including parental involvement.
Ricardo Paiva was not sent in to Praia da Luz to nursemaid the McCanns, he was sent in to watch, listen, learn and report back. This was his job and this was what he did.
Indeed, he was doing his job, and was undoubtedly following standard procedure.
Now as to who sent him up, now that is an interesting question.
Clearly someone(s) with a vested interest in attacking and discrediting him.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: sadie on April 06, 2015, 08:56:46 AM
If a case offers little by way of useful evidence, then the sensible course of action is to look harder or in different place for useful evidence to take the case forward.
And clearly not 100% always wrong - but a police officer's gut instinct unsupported by, or even against the evidence, stands too high a chance of being wrong. Criminal law is not a computer game or a reality TV show. There are real consequences for real live people.
a police officer's gut instinct unsupported by, or even against the evidence, stands too high a chance of being wrong. Criminal law is not a computer game or a reality TV show. There are real consequences for real live people.
There are real consequences for real people
8@??)(
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 09:01:35 AM
If Kate McCann thought Paiva was an FT, and actually expressed this sentiment under her breath at the time, then isn't she entitled to report this in her book? What woudl have happened if she hadn't written it and subsequently Paiva decided to write a book in which he wrote "I could hear Kate was swearing at me under her breath"? then all the "sceptics would be jumping up and down about her lying by omission. Kate gains nothing significant telling us she thought and said these words, we gain some understanding in how she felt in that situation, Paiva might possibly feel somewhat insulted to read this passage (if he has bothered to read her book in the first place) and a few buttoned up old dears might have decide dto take offence at the naughty words. Big f.....g deal - is this really worthy of such intense debate? Isn't it time we moved on to the " torn genitals" again, which really give some people a fit of the vapours? Then you can all spend Easter Monday slagging off Kate with renewed vigour!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 09:05:14 AM
a police officer's gut instinct unsupported by, or even against the evidence, stands too high a chance of being wrong. Criminal law is not a computer game or a reality TV show. There are real consequences for real live people.
There are real consequences for real people
8@??)(
Indeed there are Sadie.
The consequences of the mccanns actions are the ones pertinent for Madeleine.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 09:07:38 AM
If Kate McCann thought Paiva was an FT, and actually expressed this sentiment under her breath at the time, then isn't she entitled to report this in her book? What woudl have happened if she hadn't written it and subsequently Paiva decided to write a book in which he wrote "I could hear Kate was swearing at me under her breath"? then all the "sceptics would be jumping up and down about her lying by omission. Kate gains nothing significant telling us she thought and said these words, we gain some understanding in how she felt in that situation, Paiva might possibly feel somewhat insulted to read this passage (if he has bothered to read her book in the first place) and a few buttoned up old dears might have decide dto take offence at the naughty words. Big f.....g deal - is this really worthy of such intense debate? Isn't it time we moved on to the " torn genitals" again, which really give some people a fit of the vapours? Then you can all spend Easter Monday slagging off Kate with renewed vigour!
Kate was quite deliberately trying to gain the sympathy of the readers of the book, by the words chosen.
Unfortunately, she and her husband never thought through the consequences of their actions in the first place.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 09:41:18 AM
Kate was quite deliberately trying to gain the sympathy of the readers of the book, by the words chosen.
Unfortunately, she and her husband never thought through the consequences of their actions in the first place.
How does her admitting to muttering "f..king tossers" gain sympathy? If she'd claimed that she'd burst into tears and got down on her knees to plead with Paiva that she didn't do it then maybe I could see your point.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 09:51:15 AM
How does her admitting to muttering "f.....g tossers" gain sympathy? If she'd claimed that she'd burst into tears and got down on her knees to plead with Paiva that she didn't do it then maybe I could see your point.
Quite simple really.
She was trying to play the victim of standard police procedure in 'how dare they possibly accuse me'.
All the mccanns have tried to do throughout this case, is deflect the attention from themselves.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: sadie on April 06, 2015, 09:53:34 AM
The consequences of Amarals lack of action in the right direction ARE THE ONES PERTINENT TO poor Madeleine.
The PJ force in general were really hard working. Seems that it was a set of Officers under Amarals direction that messed up
The searches for Madeleine following her disappearance were extremely extensive, and many hundreds of people spent days and nights searching for her, along with the local and other countries police forces.
and need I remind you, Amaral was the case coordinator.
As to the 'messing up', that was the responsibility of Madeleine's parents and no one else.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 10:06:54 AM
If Kate McCann thought Paiva was an FT, and actually expressed this sentiment under her breath at the time, then isn't she entitled to report this in her book? What woudl have happened if she hadn't written it and subsequently Paiva decided to write a book in which he wrote "I could hear Kate was swearing at me under her breath"? then all the "sceptics would be jumping up and down about her lying by omission. Kate gains nothing significant telling us she thought and said these words, we gain some understanding in how she felt in that situation, Paiva might possibly feel somewhat insulted to read this passage (if he has bothered to read her book in the first place) and a few buttoned up old dears might have decide dto take offence at the naughty words. Big f.....g deal - is this really worthy of such intense debate? Isn't it time we moved on to the " torn genitals" again, which really give some people a fit of the vapours? Then you can all spend Easter Monday slagging off Kate with renewed vigour!
I would describe the comment as 'bad language' which is defined as 'words which are considered offensive by most people'. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bad-language
However, do 'most people' see swearing as offensive any more? Judging by the posts on this thread a lot of people don't. It seems to be seen as an acceptable method of expressing yourself.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 06, 2015, 10:26:36 AM
If Kate McCann thought Paiva was an FT, and actually expressed this sentiment under her breath at the time, then isn't she entitled to report this in her book? What woudl have happened if she hadn't written it and subsequently Paiva decided to write a book in which he wrote "I could hear Kate was swearing at me under her breath"? then all the "sceptics would be jumping up and down about her lying by omission. Kate gains nothing significant telling us she thought and said these words, we gain some understanding in how she felt in that situation, Paiva might possibly feel somewhat insulted to read this passage (if he has bothered to read her book in the first place) and a few buttoned up old dears might have decide dto take offence at the naughty words. Big f.....g deal - is this really worthy of such intense debate? Isn't it time we moved on to the " torn genitals" again, which really give some people a fit of the vapours? Then you can all spend Easter Monday slagging off Kate with renewed vigour!
I presume that is meant to be irony rather than a serious proposition? I would think there are far more interesting things to discuss and do on Easter Monday. Like spray weed killer on about 60 metres of gravel drive, catch you rater arrigator.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 10:26:52 AM
I would describe the comment as 'bad language' which is defined as 'words which are considered offensive by most people'. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bad-language
However, do 'most people' see swearing as offensive any more? Judging by the posts on this thread a lot of people don't. It seems to be seen as an acceptable method of expressing yourself.
it's all about context
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 10:31:42 AM
She was trying to play the victim of standard police procedure in 'how dare they possibly accuse me'.
All the mccanns have tried to do throughout this case, is deflect the attention from themselves.
I'm not actually sure why Kate took such offence to Pavia's actions in particular. It wasn't as if she didn't know he was a police officer or indeed what his role entailed.
Of course by the time Madeleine was published Paiva had given his 'dream' evidence in the libel trial and a concentrated effort among supporters had already begun to descredit him ( the Facebook 'sting' being part of that ) so perhaps this explains Kate's inclusion of the expletives in her book rather than any real outrage at his part in her questioning ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 10:35:12 AM
I'm not actually sure why Kate took such offence to Pavia's actions in particular. It wasn't as if she didn't know he was a police officer or indeed what his role entailed.
Of course by the time Madeleine was published Paiva had given his 'dream' evidence in the libel trial and a concentrated effort among supporters had already begun to descredit him ( the Facebook 'sting' being part of that ) so perhaps this explains Kate's inclusion of the expletives in her book rather than any real outrage at his part in her questioning ?
it is no surprise that opinion on this is divided strictly down part lines...did we expect anything else....boring and predictable
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: John on April 06, 2015, 10:43:47 AM
As Alfred posted previously, Paiva would have been grossly insulted to read the comment and that in my opinion was the crux of it. For those who have not read the extract in the book...
Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this. These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’ Instead I said I couldn’t explain it, but neither could he. I remember feeling such disdain for Ricardo at this point. What was he doing? I thought. Just folowing orders? Under my breath, I found myself whispering, ‘f.....g tosser, f.....g tosser.’ This quiet chant somehow kept me strong, kept me in control. This man did not deserve my respect. ‘f.....g tosser . . (Madeleine)
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 10:44:07 AM
I would describe the comment as 'bad language' which is defined as 'words which are considered offensive by most people'. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bad-language
However, do 'most people' see swearing as offensive any more? Judging by the posts on this thread a lot of people don't. It seems to be seen as an acceptable method of expressing yourself.
Yes it is (in certain contexts, a book written for adults being one of them) - welcome to the 21st century.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 10:48:29 AM
Yes it is (in certain contexts, a book written for adults being one of them) - welcome to the 21st century.
Indeed Alfie and by the time her children are old enough to read the book I'm sure they will be well used to both their mother and father's foul language.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 10:50:06 AM
Indeed Alfie and by the time her children are old enough to read the book I'm sure they will be well used to both their mother and father's foul language.
Children hear this sort of language everyday at school...they are used to it
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 06, 2015, 10:54:29 AM
Not quite the sort of language you expect your mother to use though.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 10:56:14 AM
Indeed Alfie and by the time her children are old enough to read the book I'm sure they will be well used to both their mother and father's foul language.
mine are very used to my "foul language" and don't seem any the worse for it. It's hardly uncommon for kids to hear their parents curse and swear these days - declining moral standards innit? The world's going to hell in a handcart, wasn't like that in my day, I blame the EU, etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 10:57:43 AM
As Alfred posted previously, Paiva would have been grossly insulted to read the comment and that in my opinion was the crux of it. For those who have not read the extract in the book...
Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this. These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’ Instead I said I couldn’t explain it, but neither could he. I remember feeling such disdain for Ricardo at this point. What was he doing? I thought. Just folowing orders? Under my breath, I found myself whispering, ‘f.....g tosser, f.....g tosser.’ This quiet chant somehow kept me strong, kept me in control. This man did not deserve my respect. ‘f.....g tosser . . (Madeleine)
Really John? Pavia grossly insulted by reportedly being thought a f****** t*****? What a precious little flower you must think him to be.
And this from a married father of two young children who sent explicit photos of himself to a young woman.
We must all be more careful to accord him the respect he deserves in future.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
I'm not actually sure why Kate took such offence to Pavia's actions in particular. It wasn't as if she didn't know he was a police officer or indeed what his role entailed.
Of course by the time Madeleine was published Paiva had given his 'dream' evidence in the libel trial and a concentrated effort among supporters had already begun to descredit him ( the Facebook 'sting' being part of that ) so perhaps this explains Kate's inclusion of the expletives in her book rather than any real outrage at his part in her questioning ?
Pavia's duty as a police officer was to get at the truth.
I believe there is a technique, deemed acceptable used by police forces of some countries, actually to lie to witnesses to test them, the theory being that if the accused has nothing to hide, they will remain strong, just as the McCanns did.
And in fairness, the prosecutors made quite plain there was/is not a shred of evidence against the Mccanns.
That might be a morally dubious approach, but it does seem to be one regarded as acceptable in the police forces of some countries.
Still, the real tragedy remains that time wasted investigating the (innocent) parents (and their friends) was time also wasted in attempting to track down the true perpetrators ....
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 11:15:06 AM
The British liaison officers may have found nothing suspicious in the McCann's behaviour but the Portuguese liaison officer, who it could be argued spent much more time with them, certainly did.
Can you give a cite for the respective times spent by the single Portuguese liaison officer ~ who it is alleged is a "f*****g tosser" and the teams sent out from Britain.
Is it common in Portugal to suspect a person is guilty of a heinous crime by alleging they have told you about a dream they have had. Don't know if I would describe that as conventional detective work or proof positive that he is indeed a "f*****g tosser".
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 12:02:32 PM
Indeed, he was doing his job, and was undoubtedly following standard procedure.
Now as to who sent him up, now that is an interesting question.
Clearly someone(s) with a vested interest in attacking and discrediting him.
Interestingly, the alleged "f*****g tosser" wasn't doing his job when he took over from Rebelo. He was so certain of the theory that Madeleine McCann was dead he didn't bother to investigate any of the evidence sent to him, some of it by other police forces some of it from members of the public and some from the McCann detectives.
"Not Relevant to the Inquiry" files spring immediately to mind.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 12:52:53 PM
Interestingly, the alleged "f*****g tosser" wasn't doing his job when he took over from Rebelo. He was so certain of the theory that Madeleine McCann was dead he didn't bother to investigate any of the evidence sent to him, some of it by other police forces some of it from members of the public and some from the McCann detectives.
"Not Relevant to the Inquiry" files spring immediately to mind.
Yet you have never disproved that the evidence was followed up before being considered ' not relevant to the inquiry' have you Brietta ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: John on April 06, 2015, 01:07:38 PM
Why is it some people still live with the delusion that serving police officers are little angels once the uniform comes off? What they do on duty has no relevance to what they get up to in their own spare time as long as it isn't illegal. Police officers are human too, with human frailties and everything else that goes with it.
Paiva was given the job of liaison officer in the McCann case because of his police background and his language skills, not what he did or didn't get up to while off duty.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 01:10:55 PM
Why is it some people still live with the delusion that serving police officers are little angels once the uniform comes off? What they do on duty has no relevance to what they get up to in their own spare time as long as it isn't illegal. Police officers are human too, with human frailties and everything else that goes with it.
so why do mccan supporters say that GA was drunk while out for dinner and that it affected his work wasnt he off duty having dinner??
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 01:14:17 PM
Why is it some people still live with the delusion that serving police officers are little angels once the uniform comes off? What they do on duty has no relevance to what they get up to in their own spare time as long as it isn't illegal. Police officers are human too, with human frailties and everything else that goes with it.
Paiva was given the job of liaison officer in the McCann case because of his police background and his language skills, not what he did or didn't get up to while off duty.
Well said John.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: John on April 06, 2015, 01:18:13 PM
so why do mccan supporters say that GA was drunk while out for dinner and that it affected his work wasnt he off duty having dinner??
Many serving police officers drink regularly and get drunk off duty as a means to counter stress, often this escalates with the inevitable result. Amaral was no different and what's more, he acknowledges it.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 01:20:17 PM
Many serving police officers drink regularly and get drunk off duty as a means to counter stress, often this escalates with the inevitable result. Amaral was no different and what's more, he acknowledges it.
exactly and you might say the same about doctors the mcanns are no diffrent to GA with 3 little kids and being drs etc being a doctor has pressures etc so whats to say they didnt drink heaps to ease their stresses? and whos to say they were not drunk while the kids were alone ??? get my point . mcann supporters deny the mcanns were drunk that week or on the 3rd or may but how do they know??
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2015, 01:22:22 PM
Interestingly, the alleged "f*****g tosser" wasn't doing his job when he took over from Rebelo. He was so certain of the theory that Madeleine McCann was dead he didn't bother to investigate any of the evidence sent to him, some of it by other police forces some of it from members of the public and some from the McCann detectives.
"Not Relevant to the Inquiry" files spring immediately to mind.
Is that file fact or rumour?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 01:22:50 PM
Yet you have never disproved that the evidence was followed up before being considered ' not relevant to the inquiry' have you Brietta ?
Sigh ... not only might Ricardo Paiva have been classed a FT ... he could also in my opinion have been considered a lazy incompetent cop who was derelict in his duty by deliberately not investigating information relevant to the search for a missing child. I don't think it possible to sink much lower than having such an accusation levelled at one ... in comparison to be called a "f*****g tosser* is an accolade.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 01:28:53 PM
Many serving police officers drink regularly and get drunk off duty as a means to counter stress, often this escalates with the inevitable result. Amaral was no different and what's more, he acknowledges it.
Precisely.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 01:31:52 PM
Sigh ... not only might Ricardo Paiva have been classed a FT ... he could also in my opinion have been considered a lazy incompetent cop who was derelict in his duty by deliberately not investigating information relevant to the search for a missing child. I don't think it possible to sink much lower than having such an accusation levelled at one ... in comparison to be called a "f*****g tosser* is an accolade.
So as regards parenting skills.
Where would the mccanns be placed on the scale of applying two certain words ?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 01:32:43 PM
Sigh ... not only might Ricardo Paiva have been classed a FT ... he could also in my opinion have been considered a lazy incompetent cop who was derelict in his duty by deliberately not investigating information relevant to the search for a missing child. I don't think it possible to sink much lower than having such an accusation levelled at one ... in comparison to be called a "f*****g tosser* is an accolade.
To claim Paiva is a ' lazy, incompetent cop' who did not follow up information you must first prove that the information provided was not followed up. So far you have failed to do so. Can I suggest that therefore you are either being astonishingly lazy or the proof simply does not exist. Which is it Brietta ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: DCI on April 06, 2015, 01:37:19 PM
Portuguese police have ignored hundreds of potential new leads in the Madeleine McCann case because of their belief that she is already dead, it has been claimed.
By Fiona Govan in Lisbon 7:30AM GMT 12 Feb 2010
Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up,” said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.” The potential new leads date from July 2008 when the case was officially shelved by Portuguese police after they failed to find any evidence of the missing girl.
The confidential dossier contains hundreds of statements that could prove useful in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance from an Algarve holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.
The McCanns’ legal team became aware of the file during court proceedings as part of a libel trial brought by the couple against the former detective, Goncalo Amaral, who led the initial investigation. The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, accused current Algarve police chief Ricardo Paiva of deliberately ignoring the leads because they did not fit in with the theory that Madeleine’s parents were involved in her disappearance. Last month he appeared in court as a witness in support of former colleague Mr Amaral, who has written a book alleging that the girl died in the holiday apartment and her parents fabricated a tale of abduction after hiding her body. "Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday. “He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts. Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter. "But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added. "They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."
That file is very sadly ... fact ... and what an indictment it is as well as being one of the most scandalous examples of dereliction of duty by the wilful calculated neglect ignoring information being submitted about a missing child.
One can see where the priorities lay in finding out what may have become of Madeleine McCann.
Those who find the use of the words FT to describe this person should be aware that the only people at that time seeking "justice" and their child, were Madeleine McCann's parents, those tasked with the duty to do so were not.
** snip
"Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday.
“He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”.
She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts.
Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter.
"But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added.
"They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."
Sigh ... not only might Ricardo Paiva have been classed a FT ... he could also in my opinion have been considered a lazy incompetent cop who was derelict in his duty by deliberately not investigating information relevant to the search for a missing child. I don't think it possible to sink much lower than having such an accusation levelled at one ... in comparison to be called a "f*****g tosser* is an accolade.
I think that sweeping statement is just a tad unfair and disingenuous Brietta. Do you have any evidence independent of the Madeleine case to justify it. Always remembering that Paiva is still a serving senior officer in the PJ in Madeira.
Why would the PJ pursue any external enquiries and/or leads given what occurred?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 01:42:41 PM
I think that sweeping statement is just a tad unfair and disingenuous Brietta. Do you have any evidence independent of the Madeleine case to justify it. Always remembering that Paiva is still a serving senior officer in the PJ in Madeira.
the thing is too john the police officers are not respnsible for whatever did happen to maddie she had parents and their lack of care led to the probable death of a little girl i guess some people have to blame somebody other then the mcanns dont they
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: John on April 06, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
the thing is too john the police officers are not respnsible for whatever did happen to maddie she had parents and their lack of care led to the probable death of a little girl i guess some people have to blame somebody other then the mcanns dont they
It called shifting the blame, a phenomena well known to detectives.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
Where would the mccanns be placed on the scale of applying two certain words ?
Probably slightly lower down the scale of offensiveness than a disgraceful cop endangering his four year old by drunken driving with her in the vehicle.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 01:47:25 PM
It called shifting the blame, a phenomena well known to detectives.
yep so they blame the police officers on the case which is very unfair imo the PJ did the best they could in finding maddie with the limited story they had
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 01:49:08 PM
Probably slightly lower down the scale of offensiveness than a disgraceful cop endangering his four year old by drunken driving with her in the vehicle.
while i dont condone drink driving ( you have no proof except hearsay anyway) it is nothing to do with the mcanns he was off duty like john says some people have to shift the blame
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 01:58:32 PM
I think that sweeping statement is just a tad unfair and disingenuous Brietta. Do you have any evidence independent of the Madeleine case to justify it. Always remembering that Paiva is still a serving senior officer in the PJ in Madeira.
Why would the PJ pursue any external enquiries and/or leads given what occurred?
What would the result be if a British police officer acted in the same fashion that the alleged FT, Ricardo Paiva did by totally ignoring information sent to him as head of an investigation?
When this scandal was revealed in 2010 ( that's nearly two years of information on a missing child being totally ignored) no-one in the Portuguese judiciary seemed unduly perturbed as there is no evidence of an inquiry being conducted or any disciplinary proceedings being undertaken as a result.
Exactly why he was sent to Madeira after his alleged internet activities is not made entirely clear but from what I can gather, it is not looked on by PJ officers as a career enhancing move.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 02:01:15 PM
Many serving police officers drink regularly and get drunk off duty as a means to counter stress, often this escalates with the inevitable result. Amaral was no different and what's more, he acknowledges it.
getting drunk off duty on a regular basis is not acceptable and professional misconduct...it leads to arriving at work hungover and an inability to carry out work. How would anyone feel if their heart surgeon was hungover when he arrived for work
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 02:03:27 PM
When amaral received the information Maddie had been abducted he was out drinking at 1.00am...what state was he in the following morning to take charge of the case
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: jassi on April 06, 2015, 02:03:34 PM
What would the result be if a British police officer acted in the same fashion that the alleged FT, Ricardo Paiva did by totally ignoring information sent to him as head of an investigation?
When this scandal was revealed in 2010 ( that's nearly two years of information on a missing child being totally ignored) no-one in the Portuguese judiciary seemed unduly perturbed as there is no evidence of an inquiry being conducted or any disciplinary proceedings being undertaken as a result.
Exactly why he was sent to Madeira after his alleged internet activities is not made entirely clear but from what I can gather, it is not looked on by PJ officers as a career enhancing move.
Would this be the same information that, SY have worked through to no avail (IMP), do you think?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 02:04:12 PM
while i dont condone drink driving ( you have no proof except hearsay anyway) it is nothing to do with the mcanns he was off duty like john says some people have to shift the blame
The child's mother was not as relaxed about the endangerment of her daughter as you are ... she did go to the bother of making an official complaint about it.
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal
Excellency Dr. Guilhermino Encarnação Faro's Director of the Judiciary Police
Faro, 23/12/2007
Dear Sir:
As you know I'm the wife of the Coordinator of Criminal Investigation Gonçalo Amaral, with whom I have a daughter minor of age, with 4 years old, named Inês Sofia. You know also that Inês Sofia is living temporarily with her father. By the present way I want to expose to you:
1. As agreed with my husband, Inês Sofia should spend Christmas with me, since last Thursday, day 20th. In that day, I contacted Gonçalo by mobile phone, and I was informed that Inês was with him, in trip to Coimbra and would only return on the following day;
2. On Friday 21st, I called again my husband, around lunch time. He informed me they were still on trip and at soon he arrive to Faro he will give me Inês. I waited until 8 PM without any news and Gonçalo never answered my phone calls. I then decided to go to a pub where I encountered Gonçalo and other colleagues of him consuming alcoholic beverages, asking him by Inês Sofia, he answered, visible drunken, that “she was resting” and that he will give me the child the following day. Then he departed, driving an Audi car from the police.
3. On Saturday 22nd , and after many attempts, my husband finally answered the phone in the middle of the afternoon, and asked me to get Inês in home. I rushed to the residence, but nobody was there. After a while, Gonçalo appeared driving the same car, and again in a notorious state of drunkenness. Having asked him for Inês Sofia, he ordered me to go inside the house, where he insulted me and threatened me of death. I abandoned the place.
4.Today, Sunday 23rd, and after numerous attempts, Gonçalo never answered his phone and he is not at home.
Unfortunately, this situation is not a unique and isolated act, and you Sir well know about other times in the past where I've also asked for your help. Once more, I ask again for your help, in order to guarantee Inês Sofia integrity, and in order to localize her.
Best Regards,
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 06, 2015, 02:12:20 PM
Probably slightly lower down the scale of offensiveness than a disgraceful cop endangering his four year old by drunken driving with her in the vehicle.
Loads of people do it all the time.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: jassi on April 06, 2015, 02:13:03 PM
Portuguese police have ignored hundreds of potential new leads in the Madeleine McCann case because of their belief that she is already dead, it has been claimed.
By Fiona Govan in Lisbon 7:30AM GMT 12 Feb 2010
Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up,” said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.” The potential new leads date from July 2008 when the case was officially shelved by Portuguese police after they failed to find any evidence of the missing girl.
The confidential dossier contains hundreds of statements that could prove useful in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance from an Algarve holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.
The McCanns’ legal team became aware of the file during court proceedings as part of a libel trial brought by the couple against the former detective, Goncalo Amaral, who led the initial investigation. The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, accused current Algarve police chief Ricardo Paiva of deliberately ignoring the leads because they did not fit in with the theory that Madeleine’s parents were involved in her disappearance. Last month he appeared in court as a witness in support of former colleague Mr Amaral, who has written a book alleging that the girl died in the holiday apartment and her parents fabricated a tale of abduction after hiding her body. "Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday. “He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts. Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter. "But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added. "They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."
Probably slightly lower down the scale of offensiveness than a disgraceful cop endangering his four year old by drunken driving with her in the vehicle.
and where did this case originate ?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: DCI on April 06, 2015, 02:18:13 PM
The child's mother was not as relaxed about the endangerment of her daughter as you are ... she did go to the bother of making an official complaint about it.
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal
Excellency Dr. Guilhermino Encarnação Faro's Director of the Judiciary Police
Faro, 23/12/2007
Dear Sir:
As you know I'm the wife of the Coordinator of Criminal Investigation Gonçalo Amaral, with whom I have a daughter minor of age, with 4 years old, named Inês Sofia. You know also that Inês Sofia is living temporarily with her father. By the present way I want to expose to you:
1. As agreed with my husband, Inês Sofia should spend Christmas with me, since last Thursday, day 20th. In that day, I contacted Gonçalo by mobile phone, and I was informed that Inês was with him, in trip to Coimbra and would only return on the following day;
2. On Friday 21st, I called again my husband, around lunch time. He informed me they were still on trip and at soon he arrive to Faro he will give me Inês. I waited until 8 PM without any news and Gonçalo never answered my phone calls. I then decided to go to a pub where I encountered Gonçalo and other colleagues of him consuming alcoholic beverages, asking him by Inês Sofia, he answered, visible drunken, that “she was resting” and that he will give me the child the following day. Then he departed, driving an Audi car from the police.
3. On Saturday 22nd , and after many attempts, my husband finally answered the phone in the middle of the afternoon, and asked me to get Inês in home. I rushed to the residence, but nobody was there. After a while, Gonçalo appeared driving the same car, and again in a notorious state of drunkenness. Having asked him for Inês Sofia, he ordered me to go inside the house, where he insulted me and threatened me of death. I abandoned the place.
4.Today, Sunday 23rd, and after numerous attempts, Gonçalo never answered his phone and he is not at home.
Unfortunately, this situation is not a unique and isolated act, and you Sir well know about other times in the past where I've also asked for your help. Once more, I ask again for your help, in order to guarantee Inês Sofia integrity, and in order to localize her.
Best Regards,
Alexandra Sofia de Sousa Manjua Leal
Thanks Brietta, I was just looking for that.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 02:30:57 PM
Probably slightly lower down the scale of offensiveness than a disgraceful cop endangering his four year old by drunken driving with her in the vehicle.
Whichever makes you feel better @)(++(*. I ain't fussed.
john is right the mcann supporters need someone to blame and since they dont see the mcanns at fault they have to blame someone so they blame the police sad i think
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 02:48:25 PM
john is right the mcann supporters need someone to blame and since they dont see the mcanns at fault they have to blame someone so they blame the police sad i think
The one thing they will never do is blame their idols.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 02:54:39 PM
john is right the mcann supporters need someone to blame and since they dont see the mcanns at fault they have to blame someone so they blame the police sad i think
Where did John say that?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 06, 2015, 03:14:41 PM
But only if there is a well advertised pile of dosh about.
They couldn't have known whether this was a good idea or not. It could have sparked hoaxes (which it did) and wasted police time on unlikely sightings (which it did), even though numerous sightings may have been genuine.
On the other hand, imagine the headlines "Parents refuse huge reward offered for anyone who finds and returns their child alive".
Can't win, can you?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2015, 03:28:11 PM
john is right the mcann supporters need someone to blame and since they dont see the mcanns at fault they have to blame someone so they blame the police sad i think
I don't suppose either of the McCanns would be impressed if one of their patients told them what was wrong with them and what the treatment should be. I doubt if the Portuguese police were greatly impressed to be told how to do their job either.
Not only did the parents inform the police what crime had been committed, they told them how to investigate it too. 'Bring sniffer dogs!' 'Close the roads!'. I doubt if even our wonderful police would have managed that within a couple of hours. The criticism began immediately. 'No-ones looking for her!' when the town was full of people and police officers looking till 4.30am.
The comment by Kate McCann was just a continuation of the contempt and lack of respect the parents had towards the Portuguese police from the very beginning. Those joining in should perhaps remember that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Our own police force has been shown to be less than perfect itself recently, and is having to be investigated for a variety of failings. Hopefully the McCann case won't end up on the list too.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2015, 03:31:07 PM
I don't suppose either of the McCanns would be impressed if one of their patients told them what was wrong with them and what the treatment should be. I doubt if the Portuguese police were greatly impressed to be told how to do their job either.
Not only did the parents inform the police what crime had been committed, they told them how to investigate it too. 'Bring sniffer dogs!' 'Close the roads!'. I doubt if even our wonderful police would have managed that within a couple of hours. The criticism began immediately. 'No-ones looking for her!' when the town was full of people and police officers looking till 4.30am.
The comment by Kate McCann was just a continuation of the contempt and lack of respect the parents had towards the Portuguese police from the very beginning. Those joining in should perhaps remember that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Our own police force has been shown to be less than perfect itself recently, and is having to be investigated for a variety of failings. Hopefully the McCann case won't end up on the list too.
Hopefully, seasoned police would be used to panicked reactions in the case of frequent crimes.
As missing children are a relatively rare occurrence in Portugal (so we are told), what training would they have had to deal with the situation?
Wouldn't a growing or even sudden realisation that a police officer you trusted was convinced that you had harmed your child, and therefore no one was searching for her - perhaps hadn't done for some time, be a reason to be upset?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 06, 2015, 03:49:51 PM
They couldn't have known whether this was a good idea or not. It could have sparked hoaxes (which it did) and wasted police time on unlikely sightings (which it did), even though numerous sightings may have been genuine.
On the other hand, imagine the headlines "Parents refuse huge reward offered for anyone who finds and returns their child alive".
Can't win, can you?
My point being that regardless of the surnames, religion, education and sexual proclivities of those involved, a well advertised pile of dosh, be it a reward or fund, for an altruistic purpose will attract those with an eye to the main chance. For better or worse that is how the world spins. Maybe the Drs McCann were innocents abroad in that world but some of their advisers purported not to be and should have been a bit more hip. If you are going to let a £1/2MM contract the least an experienced person would do is carry out a Dun and Bradstreet search or its equivalent.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: Carana on April 06, 2015, 03:56:52 PM
Many serving police officers drink regularly and get drunk off duty as a means to counter stress, often this escalates with the inevitable result. Amaral was no different and what's more, he acknowledges it.
Quite possibly. However, it's not clear to me from his own accounts as to where he was during critical moments, i.e. on duty and sober.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 03:57:59 PM
Portuguese police have ignored hundreds of potential new leads in the Madeleine McCann case because of their belief that she is already dead, it has been claimed.
By Fiona Govan in Lisbon 7:30AM GMT 12 Feb 2010
Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up,” said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.” The potential new leads date from July 2008 when the case was officially shelved by Portuguese police after they failed to find any evidence of the missing girl.
The confidential dossier contains hundreds of statements that could prove useful in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance from an Algarve holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.
The McCanns’ legal team became aware of the file during court proceedings as part of a libel trial brought by the couple against the former detective, Goncalo Amaral, who led the initial investigation. The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, accused current Algarve police chief Ricardo Paiva of deliberately ignoring the leads because they did not fit in with the theory that Madeleine’s parents were involved in her disappearance. Last month he appeared in court as a witness in support of former colleague Mr Amaral, who has written a book alleging that the girl died in the holiday apartment and her parents fabricated a tale of abduction after hiding her body. "Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday. “He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts. Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter. "But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added. "They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."
' Johan Selle, the director of operations at iJet, the US firm that managed the Find Madeleine phone line, revealed that for a year nobody even asked his company if they could listen to any of the calls received. Mr Selle said his operators, in Annapolis, Virginia, had answered 'hundreds of calls', but the information seemed wasted - possibly squandering valuable leads. He said: 'We delivered Oakley a report with a summary of the calls and said if they wanted to come back they could listen to the recording, but nobody did. 'For someone with an understanding of the case it would be very easy for some to say that maybe 80 or 90 per cent of the calls were hogwash, but there may be a percentage where one would say maybe we should listen to this one or listen to that one. But our understanding is that this never took place '
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 04:03:20 PM
What would the result be if a British police officer acted in the same fashion that the alleged FT, Ricardo Paiva did by totally ignoring information sent to him as head of an investigation?
When this scandal was revealed in 2010 ( that's nearly two years of information on a missing child being totally ignored) no-one in the Portuguese judiciary seemed unduly perturbed as there is no evidence of an inquiry being conducted or any disciplinary proceedings being undertaken as a result.
Exactly why he was sent to Madeira after his alleged internet activities is not made entirely clear but from what I can gather, it is not looked on by PJ officers as a career enhancing move.
And still no proof is forthcoming.
Yet what we do have proof of is not one call to the Find Madeleine helpline was listened to by Oakley who were agents of the McCanns at the time and the McCanns not once queried this lack of feedback. AND THIS WAS THEIR DAUGHTER !
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 06, 2015, 04:04:04 PM
' Johan Selle, the director of operations at iJet, the US firm that managed the Find Madeleine phone line, revealed that for a year nobody even asked his company if they could listen to any of the calls received. Mr Selle said his operators, in Annapolis, Virginia, had answered 'hundreds of calls', but the information seemed wasted - possibly squandering valuable leads. He said: 'We delivered Oakley a report with a summary of the calls and said if they wanted to come back they could listen to the recording, but nobody did. 'For someone with an understanding of the case it would be very easy for some to say that maybe 80 or 90 per cent of the calls were hogwash, but there may be a percentage where one would say maybe we should listen to this one or listen to that one. But our understanding is that this never took place '
Was iJet paid by Oakley?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 04:13:08 PM
Only two things are relevant with regard to the current discussion.
1) The only 'proof' we have that none of the information in the file marked 'not relevant to the investigation' by Paiva was followed up comes from the McCanns and their lawyer Duarte. There is not one jot of independent confirmation.
2) We have independent confirmation that not one call to the Madeleine helpline was listened to never mind auctioned by Oakley or the McCanns.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 04:43:01 PM
[quote *&*%£ author=Faithlilly link=topic=6176.msg230872#msg230872 date=1428315306] I'm sure they are, poor mites 8(8-)) [/quote] @)(++(* perhaps you should report me to social services? Swearing in front of two teenagers must surely be a case of child abuse innit?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 04:48:54 PM
@)(++(* perhaps you should report me to social services? Swearing in front of two teenagers must surely be a case of child abuse innit?
Of course not but I'm sure the social embarrassment of having a dad who spends endless hours on the computer defending people he has never met must be, right ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 04:50:23 PM
Of course not but I'm sure the social embarrassment of having a dad who spends endless hours on the computer defending people he has never met must be, right ?
I've been out all day with my kids, what have you been doing?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 04:51:30 PM
Portuguese police have ignored hundreds of potential new leads in the Madeleine McCann case because of their belief that she is already dead, it has been claimed.
By Fiona Govan in Lisbon 7:30AM GMT 12 Feb 2010
Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up,” said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.” The potential new leads date from July 2008 when the case was officially shelved by Portuguese police after they failed to find any evidence of the missing girl.
The confidential dossier contains hundreds of statements that could prove useful in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance from an Algarve holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.
The McCanns’ legal team became aware of the file during court proceedings as part of a libel trial brought by the couple against the former detective, Goncalo Amaral, who led the initial investigation. The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, accused current Algarve police chief Ricardo Paiva of deliberately ignoring the leads because they did not fit in with the theory that Madeleine’s parents were involved in her disappearance. Last month he appeared in court as a witness in support of former colleague Mr Amaral, who has written a book alleging that the girl died in the holiday apartment and her parents fabricated a tale of abduction after hiding her body. "Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday. “He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts. Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter. "But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added. "They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."
Only two things are relevant with regard to the current discussion.
1) The only 'proof' we have that none of the information in the file marked 'not relevant to the investigation' by Paiva was followed up comes from the McCanns and their lawyer Duarte. There is not one jot of independent confirmation.
2) We have independent confirmation that not one call to the Madeleine helpline was listened to never mind auctioned by Oakley or the McCanns.
The independent source being... ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: DCI on April 06, 2015, 05:09:50 PM
What on earth could Portuguese police do about sightings in "UK, Spain, France and Italy"?
Ask Police Forces who sent them, to Paiva.
Looks like you pounced before reading.
She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lyall on April 06, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts.
I read every word. I didn't see Mitchell or Duarte asking for the Portuguese to reopen their investigation.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: carlymichelle on April 06, 2015, 05:15:21 PM
I don't suppose either of the McCanns would be impressed if one of their patients told them what was wrong with them and what the treatment should be. I doubt if the Portuguese police were greatly impressed to be told how to do their job either.
Not only did the parents inform the police what crime had been committed, they told them how to investigate it too. 'Bring sniffer dogs!' 'Close the roads!'. I doubt if even our wonderful police would have managed that within a couple of hours. The criticism began immediately. 'No-ones looking for her!' when the town was full of people and police officers looking till 4.30am.
The comment by Kate McCann was just a continuation of the contempt and lack of respect the parents had towards the Portuguese police from the very beginning. Those joining in should perhaps remember that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Our own police force has been shown to be less than perfect itself recently, and is having to be investigated for a variety of failings. Hopefully the McCann case won't end up on the list too.
exactly why should the PJ etc have been nice to the mcanns when the mcanns showed them no respect and continue not too?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: DCI on April 06, 2015, 05:19:45 PM
BUMPED
You still haven't said where John said this, Carly??
john is right the mcann supporters need someone to blame and since they dont see the mcanns at fault they have to blame someone so they blame the police sad i think
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 05:31:30 PM
She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts.
So you have asked police forces have you DCI and received confirmation ? Or perhaps you know a journalist who has ?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: DCI on April 06, 2015, 05:35:15 PM
Go play your games with some else, Faith, I ain't biting!
I'm not playing games, I'm simply asking a straightforward question. Do you have any evidence that Paiva didn't follow up the leads passed to him before marking them 'not relevant' ?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 05:45:30 PM
I don't suppose either of the McCanns would be impressed if one of their patients told them what was wrong with them and what the treatment should be. I doubt if the Portuguese police were greatly impressed to be told how to do their job either.
Not only did the parents inform the police what crime had been committed, they told them how to investigate it too. 'Bring sniffer dogs!' 'Close the roads!'. I doubt if even our wonderful police would have managed that within a couple of hours. The criticism began immediately. 'No-ones looking for her!' when the town was full of people and police officers looking till 4.30am.
The comment by Kate McCann was just a continuation of the contempt and lack of respect the parents had towards the Portuguese police from the very beginning. Those joining in should perhaps remember that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Our own police force has been shown to be less than perfect itself recently, and is having to be investigated for a variety of failings. Hopefully the McCann case won't end up on the list too.
I'm not sure I equate the disrespect shown to a missing child by not looking for her outweighs the words "f****** tosser" silently said to oneself when under great stress. Funny that one offends and the other is fine ... but it takes all sorts.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 06, 2015, 05:51:39 PM
I'm not sure I equate the disrespect shown to a missing child by not looking for her outweighs the words "f****** tosser" silently said to oneself when under great stress. Funny that one offends and the other is fine ... but it takes all sorts.
You can't evidence your claim so instead go for the emotional jugular. Nice touch Brietta.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 06:10:33 PM
So can I conclude by the silence of both DCI and Brietta that there is no evidence that the PJ, including Paiva, didn't follow leads before marking them ' not relevant'.
Glad we've cleared that one up ?{)(**
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 06, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
So can I conclude by the silence of both DCI and Brietta that there is no evidence that the PJ, including Paiva, didn't follow leads before marking them ' not relevant'.
Glad we've cleared that one up ?{)(**
It rather puts me in mind of a Robert Mitchum quote about his press reports (paraphrased of course 8(0(*) "The brawls the broads the booze all true. Make up some more if you want to".
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 06:27:10 PM
I read every word. I didn't see Mitchell or Duarte asking for the Portuguese to reopen their investigation.
Indeed both the mccanns and their supporters are invariably blinded by the facts.
Another poster elsewhere has put this into perspective on Amazon.
--------------------------------- 'I see a fresh row has broken out on the JF over the supposed file of sightings as mentioned in this newspaper report
"Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up," said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all."
There was only one problem with this claim. It was a big lie.
Duarte made this claim outside of the courtroom where of course she could not be challenged on it. It was part of the attempt to make it appear that Amaral's book ''harmed the search'' for Madeleine, a claim the judge in the ongoing case has since found ''not proven''
However, the McCanns and their chief dementors had not taken into account an unexpected fly in the ointment. A rather large fly in the shape of four UK newspapers, who jointly petitioned the Portuguese court for access to said file, which was duly granted.
Hence they discovered that far from being red-hot credible leads they were mostly the rambling insane jottings of people who had refused to take their medication and were insisting that they had seen Maddie on the telly in a choir, or that she had popped into their shop. In New Zealand.
They had also been followed up locally, found to be worthless, and forwarded to the PJ for their information.
The McCanns were very cross when this got out. In fact they called a press conference, claimed the papers were ''harming the search'' (again) and Kate, in as blinding a piece of bare-faced cheek as I have ever witnessed, called upon people to ''take personal responsibility'', which is pretty rich coming from a woman who at the time her 3 year old child supposedly went missing wasn't there as she was wrapped around a ......................'
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2015, 06:41:23 PM
They couldn't have known whether this was a good idea or not. It could have sparked hoaxes (which it did) and wasted police time on unlikely sightings (which it did), even though numerous sightings may have been genuine.
On the other hand, imagine the headlines "Parents refuse huge reward offered for anyone who finds and returns their child alive".
Can't win, can you?
The McCanns have never offered a reward as far as I know. The News of the World did.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 06:41:58 PM
So can I conclude by the silence of both DCI and Brietta that there is no evidence that the PJ, including Paiva, didn't follow leads before marking them ' not relevant'.
Glad we've cleared that one up ?{)(**
End of mind games for me ?>)()< back into the silly box for you ... sometimes one does incline towards approval of appropriate quotes such as "f*****g tosser" when used in context.
You are allowed to read and digest information contained in posts not directly aimed at you, but if that is beyond your capabilities and just for reference in case there is any doubt ...
Ricardo Paiva received information in Madeleine McCann's case from other policing authorities. Ricardo Paiva ignored all such information. Ricardo Paiva marked all such information as irrelevant.
"Ignored" evidence may lead to re-opening of Madeleine case Algarve Resident
Special Report by CHRIS GRAEME at Lisbon Civil Court Updated: 11-Feb-2010
Lawyers acting on behalf of Kate and Gerry McCann and Gonçalo Amaral admitted in Lisbon on Wednesday (February 10) that evidence ignored by police investigators could pave the way for the Madeleine Case to be reopened.
The lawyers were speaking outside the Lisbon Civil Court, Tribunal Civel de Lisboa, on the last day of an injunction case which the McCanns hope will permanently ban publication of Madeleine – the Secret of the Lie, the book which purports that the three-year-old toddler died in a tragic accident in their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007, and that the parents tried to conceal the body.
Isabel Duarte, representing the McCanns, who were in Lisbon at the hearing, said that there was "evidence that could compromise the Polícia Judiciária investigation" in Portimão and pave the way for "the reopening of the Madeleine Case".
The firebrand lawyer, who caused a sensation in the highly-charged court room in her passionate summing up deliberations by using emotive words against the book, the author, its publishers and a television channel, such as vultures, crows and vampires attracted to the "smell of fresh meat" said that she had attempted to show that the PJ had "undervalued successive sightings of a child" which the British police had given credence too.
"What I saw was various relevant pieces of information, photographs, some of them shocking, similar to the girl, places and car number plates," she said, which the McCanns had not been called in to identify, but which could show that a girl like Madeleine could have been in Spain or Italy.
When pressed further, Isabel Duarte said that Inspector Ricardo Paiva, the Chief Investigator in the case after Gonçalo Amaral's removal for allegedly criticising British police, "had been reported as having received sightings of Madeleine" but then later, in court, changed his story.
"What I heard, and this is taped (in court), is that Inspector Paiva said he believed the girl was dead and so, straight off, that means no one is going to investigate a girl that's alive, don't you think?” she said.
Isabel Duarte said that French, Spanish and British investigators had confirmed that the leads "were promising" but that the Portuguese investigators "didn't take them seriously and follow them up".
In a statement outside the court house, Gerry McCann said that the couple would be delighted if the case were reopened.
"We have no problem with that but what we need is real investigation not dismissal," he said as both issued a fresh plea for the Portuguese to come forward with any information about Madeleine.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id308.html
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 06:46:02 PM
Indeed both the mccanns and their supporters are invariably blinded by the facts.
Another poster elsewhere has put this into perspective on Amazon.
--------------------------------- 'I see a fresh row has broken out on the JF over the supposed file of sightings as mentioned in this newspaper report
"Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up," said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all."
There was only one problem with this claim. It was a big lie.
Duarte made this claim outside of the courtroom where of course she could not be challenged on it. It was part of the attempt to make it appear that Amaral's book ''harmed the search'' for Madeleine, a claim the judge in the ongoing case has since found ''not proven''
However, the McCanns and their chief dementors had not taken into account an unexpected fly in the ointment. A rather large fly in the shape of four UK newspapers, who jointly petitioned the Portuguese court for access to said file, which was duly granted.
Hence they discovered that far from being red-hot credible leads they were mostly the rambling insane jottings of people who had refused to take their medication and were insisting that they had seen Maddie on the telly in a choir, or that she had popped into their shop. In New Zealand.
They had also been followed up locally, found to be worthless, and forwarded to the PJ for their information.
The McCanns were very cross when this got out. In fact they called a press conference, claimed the papers were ''harming the search'' (again) and Kate, in as blinding a piece of bare-faced cheek as I have ever witnessed, called upon people to ''take personal responsibility'', which is pretty rich coming from a woman who at the time her 3 year old child supposedly went missing wasn't there as she was wrapped around a ......................'
Hmmm ... wonder if you would mind terribly asking your fellow poster for a cite ... @)(++(* probably not, cites aren't really your thing.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 06:47:02 PM
Indeed both the mccanns and their supporters are invariably blinded by the facts.
Another poster elsewhere has put this into perspective on Amazon.
--------------------------------- 'I see a fresh row has broken out on the JF over the supposed file of sightings as mentioned in this newspaper report
"Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up," said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all."
There was only one problem with this claim. It was a big lie.
Duarte made this claim outside of the courtroom where of course she could not be challenged on it. It was part of the attempt to make it appear that Amaral's book ''harmed the search'' for Madeleine, a claim the judge in the ongoing case has since found ''not proven''
However, the McCanns and their chief dementors had not taken into account an unexpected fly in the ointment. A rather large fly in the shape of four UK newspapers, who jointly petitioned the Portuguese court for access to said file, which was duly granted.
Hence they discovered that far from being red-hot credible leads they were mostly the rambling insane jottings of people who had refused to take their medication and were insisting that they had seen Maddie on the telly in a choir, or that she had popped into their shop. In New Zealand.
They had also been followed up locally, found to be worthless, and forwarded to the PJ for their information.
The McCanns were very cross when this got out. In fact they called a press conference, claimed the papers were ''harming the search'' (again) and Kate, in as blinding a piece of bare-faced cheek as I have ever witnessed, called upon people to ''take personal responsibility'', which is pretty rich coming from a woman who at the time her 3 year old child supposedly went missing wasn't there as she was wrapped around a ......................'
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 06:48:26 PM
Indeed both the mccanns and their supporters are invariably blinded by the facts.
Another poster elsewhere has put this into perspective on Amazon.
--------------------------------- 'I see a fresh row has broken out on the JF over the supposed file of sightings as mentioned in this newspaper report
"Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.
Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.
"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up," said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.
"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all."
There was only one problem with this claim. It was a big lie.
Duarte made this claim outside of the courtroom where of course she could not be challenged on it. It was part of the attempt to make it appear that Amaral's book ''harmed the search'' for Madeleine, a claim the judge in the ongoing case has since found ''not proven''
However, the McCanns and their chief dementors had not taken into account an unexpected fly in the ointment. A rather large fly in the shape of four UK newspapers, who jointly petitioned the Portuguese court for access to said file, which was duly granted.
Hence they discovered that far from being red-hot credible leads they were mostly the rambling insane jottings of people who had refused to take their medication and were insisting that they had seen Maddie on the telly in a choir, or that she had popped into their shop. In New Zealand.
They had also been followed up locally, found to be worthless, and forwarded to the PJ for their information.
The McCanns were very cross when this got out. In fact they called a press conference, claimed the papers were ''harming the search'' (again) and Kate, in as blinding a piece of bare-faced cheek as I have ever witnessed, called upon people to ''take personal responsibility'', which is pretty rich coming from a woman who at the time her 3 year old child supposedly went missing wasn't there as she was wrapped around a ......................'
Cheers Stephen. Must admit I wasn't following the case much in 2010, though I did see GM being very angry indeed outside the court one day (you can partly understand why I think - they must be very much regretting taking action in Lisbon instead of London now).
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 06:53:13 PM
End of mind games for me ?>)()< back into the silly box for you ... sometimes one does incline towards approval of appropriate quotes such as "f*****g tosser" when used in context.
You are allowed to read and digest information contained in posts not directly aimed at you, but if that is beyond your capabilities and just for reference in case there is any doubt ...
Ricardo Paiva received information in Madeleine McCann's case from other policing authorities. Ricardo Paiva ignored all such information. Ricardo Paiva marked all such information as irrelevant.
"Ignored" evidence may lead to re-opening of Madeleine case Algarve Resident
Special Report by CHRIS GRAEME at Lisbon Civil Court Updated: 11-Feb-2010
Lawyers acting on behalf of Kate and Gerry McCann and Gonçalo Amaral admitted in Lisbon on Wednesday (February 10) that evidence ignored by police investigators could pave the way for the Madeleine Case to be reopened.
The lawyers were speaking outside the Lisbon Civil Court, Tribunal Civel de Lisboa, on the last day of an injunction case which the McCanns hope will permanently ban publication of Madeleine – the Secret of the Lie, the book which purports that the three-year-old toddler died in a tragic accident in their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007, and that the parents tried to conceal the body.
Isabel Duarte, representing the McCanns, who were in Lisbon at the hearing, said that there was "evidence that could compromise the Polícia Judiciária investigation" in Portimão and pave the way for "the reopening of the Madeleine Case".
The firebrand lawyer, who caused a sensation in the highly-charged court room in her passionate summing up deliberations by using emotive words against the book, the author, its publishers and a television channel, such as vultures, crows and vampires attracted to the "smell of fresh meat" said that she had attempted to show that the PJ had "undervalued successive sightings of a child" which the British police had given credence too.
"What I saw was various relevant pieces of information, photographs, some of them shocking, similar to the girl, places and car number plates," she said, which the McCanns had not been called in to identify, but which could show that a girl like Madeleine could have been in Spain or Italy.
When pressed further, Isabel Duarte said that Inspector Ricardo Paiva, the Chief Investigator in the case after Gonçalo Amaral's removal for allegedly criticising British police, "had been reported as having received sightings of Madeleine" but then later, in court, changed his story.
"What I heard, and this is taped (in court), is that Inspector Paiva said he believed the girl was dead and so, straight off, that means no one is going to investigate a girl that's alive, don't you think?” she said.
Isabel Duarte said that French, Spanish and British investigators had confirmed that the leads "were promising" but that the Portuguese investigators "didn't take them seriously and follow them up".
In a statement outside the court house, Gerry McCann said that the couple would be delighted if the case were reopened.
"We have no problem with that but what we need is real investigation not dismissal," he said as both issued a fresh plea for the Portuguese to come forward with any information about Madeleine.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id308.html
Ah right Brietta now you've wriiten it in red it must be true !! Of course anyone who saw the press conference with Gerry described in the article knows that far from expressing his delight if the case was reopened had to be badgered by one of the journalists present into finally admitting that they would welcome the reopening. So a skewed article all in all.
Soooooooo still no independent verification !
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 06:54:30 PM
Cheers Stephen. Must admit I wasn't following the case much in 2010, though I did see GM being very angry indeed outside the court one day (you can partly understand why I think - they must be very much regretting taking action in Lisbon instead of London now).
My pleasure Lyall.
However, the thanks should go to the Amazon poster, whose post I cut and paste here, well most of it anyway.
8)-)))
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 06, 2015, 06:55:55 PM
Not sure what ironing p is, but you've also found time to make 21 posts today, whilst I was spending quality time with the family (and I didn't even swear once). 8(>((
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2015, 06:58:29 PM
Hopefully, seasoned police would be used to panicked reactions in the case of frequent crimes.
As missing children are a relatively rare occurrence in Portugal (so we are told), what training would they have had to deal with the situation?
Wouldn't a growing or even sudden realisation that a police officer you trusted was convinced that you had harmed your child, and therefore no one was searching for her - perhaps hadn't done for some time, be a reason to be upset?
I imagine all police officers know to discount relative's reactions, which they did. I have no idea what training the Portuguese police had, but they certainly got lots of interference advice from the UK. The realisation that the iaison officer you thought was in your pocket trusted was not there to tell you what the PJ were doing and thinking would have been upsetting too. It can be read both ways.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 06, 2015, 07:02:03 PM
End of mind games for me ?>)()< back into the silly box for you ... sometimes one does incline towards approval of appropriate quotes such as "f*****g tosser" when used in context.
You are allowed to read and digest information contained in posts not directly aimed at you, but if that is beyond your capabilities and just for reference in case there is any doubt ...
Ricardo Paiva received information in Madeleine McCann's case from other policing authorities. Ricardo Paiva ignored all such information. Ricardo Paiva marked all such information as irrelevant.
"Ignored" evidence may lead to re-opening of Madeleine case Algarve Resident
Special Report by CHRIS GRAEME at Lisbon Civil Court Updated: 11-Feb-2010
Lawyers acting on behalf of Kate and Gerry McCann and Gonçalo Amaral admitted in Lisbon on Wednesday (February 10) that evidence ignored by police investigators could pave the way for the Madeleine Case to be reopened.
The lawyers were speaking outside the Lisbon Civil Court, Tribunal Civel de Lisboa, on the last day of an injunction case which the McCanns hope will permanently ban publication of Madeleine – the Secret of the Lie, the book which purports that the three-year-old toddler died in a tragic accident in their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007, and that the parents tried to conceal the body.
Isabel Duarte, representing the McCanns, who were in Lisbon at the hearing, said that there was "evidence that could compromise the Polícia Judiciária investigation" in Portimão and pave the way for "the reopening of the Madeleine Case".
The firebrand lawyer, who caused a sensation in the highly-charged court room in her passionate summing up deliberations by using emotive words against the book, the author, its publishers and a television channel, such as vultures, crows and vampires attracted to the "smell of fresh meat" said that she had attempted to show that the PJ had "undervalued successive sightings of a child" which the British police had given credence too.
"What I saw was various relevant pieces of information, photographs, some of them shocking, similar to the girl, places and car number plates," she said, which the McCanns had not been called in to identify, but which could show that a girl like Madeleine could have been in Spain or Italy.
When pressed further, Isabel Duarte said that Inspector Ricardo Paiva, the Chief Investigator in the case after Gonçalo Amaral's removal for allegedly criticising British police, "had been reported as having received sightings of Madeleine" but then later, in court, changed his story.
"What I heard, and this is taped (in court), is that Inspector Paiva said he believed the girl was dead and so, straight off, that means no one is going to investigate a girl that's alive, don't you think?” she said.
Isabel Duarte said that French, Spanish and British investigators had confirmed that the leads "were promising" but that the Portuguese investigators "didn't take them seriously and follow them up".
In a statement outside the court house, Gerry McCann said that the couple would be delighted if the case were reopened.
"We have no problem with that but what we need is real investigation not dismissal," he said as both issued a fresh plea for the Portuguese to come forward with any information about Madeleine.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id308.html
There's none so blind...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 07:04:00 PM
Not sure what ironing p is, but you've also found time to make 21 posts today, whilst I was spending quality time with the family (and I didn't even swear once). 8(>((
Ah but is that 'real' family time ( choosing to spend time with them ) or 'McCann' family time ( no option because the kids club is closed ) ? @)(++(*
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 06, 2015, 07:08:14 PM
I know, but as you are flitting back and fro looking for things to post on this forum, I thought you could ask this poster, after all you keep asking posters on here to go to the Amazon forum.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 07:09:45 PM
Quote
Goncalo Amaral, the former detective who led the original case before being removed after criticising British involvement, admitted making mistakes.
"It's a fact that our investigation had its faults and lost a lot of time, lots of time," he told the programme. "And a lot of things didn't get followed up. And I'm just as much to blame for that as anyone else."
Is that independent enough?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 07:11:15 PM
I know, but as you are flitting back and fro looking for things to post on this forum, I thought you could ask this poster, after all you keep asking posters on here to go to the Amazon forum.
I presume you understand the concept of an open forum.
The distinct impression is that mccann supporters won't post on a forum where there is impartial moderating.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 07:12:31 PM
That's honesty. People saying "they never looked for Madeleine" is dishonesty. Even Madeleine's parents never said that themselves.
It stands to reason IMO that if Amaral didn't follow up leads that may have helped secure a conviction against the parents, then following up leads that may have helped find the child alive would have taken an even lower priority.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 07:20:46 PM
It stands to reason IMO that if Amaral didn't follow up leads that may have helped secure a conviction against the parents, then following up leads that may have helped find the child alive would have taken an even lower priority.
Absolute top priority is to find the child. He isn't just talking about "leads that may have helped secure a conviction against the parents".
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 07:29:56 PM
Stephen, as not many seem to be on this Amazon forum you keep going on about, why doesn't this poster come and post on this forum?
I think there is a fair probability that poster already does, Lace, whether or not having an opinion on what Dr McCann wrote of her utter contempt for Ricardo Paiva.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 06, 2015, 07:31:25 PM
Is he? In which case he's admitting leads to find Madeleine weren't followed up then.
'Sightings' aren't leads unless there's accompanying information, but there's never yet been a perfect investigation in any country. Of course he doesn't claim that for his.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
This is an example of a properly moderated forum ... Amazon has zero credibility as demonstrated by allowing posters to 'review' books they have neither purchased or read.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 06, 2015, 07:37:24 PM
French, Spanish and British investigators had confirmed the leads 'were promising' yet they failed to following them up, that's just arrogance, their theory was right and that's the end of it. The McCann's must be left wondering 'what if'.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lyall on April 06, 2015, 07:40:00 PM
French, Spanish and British investigators had confirmed the leads 'were promising' yet they failed to following them up, that's just arrogance, their theory was right and that's the end of it. The McCann's must be left wondering 'what if'.
What if they'd asked for the investigation to continue in 2008 you mean?
There was no investigation in 2010.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 07:44:20 PM
This is an example of a properly moderated forum ... Amazon has zero credibility as demonstrated by allowing posters to 'review' books they have neither purchased or read.
Utter cobblers as per usual.
The reason you and your fellow mccann backers don't like Amazon, is not because of 'zero credibilty'.
That doesn't wash.
It is moderated.
The key difference is that the mods don't post on there.
As to people reviewing books, when I last checked this is a free country.
Unless of course you don't believe the mccanns. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 07:48:40 PM
'Sightings' aren't leads unless there's accompanying information, but there's never yet been a perfect investigation in any country. Of course he doesn't claim that for his.
Those who still support the allegations re efits which cost the Sunday Times a bit of their sales profit ~ but condone Paiva's inaction when in possession of photographs which resemble a missing child, surely inhabit a paralell universe.
The least that could have been expected was to show the photographs to Madeleine's parents? FT is a well deserved epithet for the man who disregarded those photographs and had no desire to carry out his duty to investigate the disappearance of a child..
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2015, 07:51:57 PM
Those who still support the allegations re efits which cost the Sunday Times a bit of their sales profit ~ but condone Paiva's inaction when in possession of photographs which resemble a missing child, surely inhabit a paralell universe.
The least that could have been expected was to show the photographs to Madeleine's parents? FT is a well deserved epithet for the man who disregarded those photographs and had no desire to carry out his duty to investigate the disappearance of a child..
Who says there were photographs?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 08:00:12 PM
As stated the other day, they would run rings around you.
Your comment merely reveals what you lack.
Perhaps the Watcher who's watching us watching him from behind the wall would care to post his source, here or there, for information contained in files after Aug 2008 which were not released to the public.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 08:05:07 PM
The reason you and your fellow mccann backers don't like Amazon, is not because of 'zero credibilty'.
That doesn't wash.
It is moderated.
The key difference is that the mods don't post on there.
As to people reviewing books, when I last checked this is a free country.
Unless of course you don't believe the mccanns. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
I don't feel the need to post in another place then quote myself and add plaudits on a properly moderated forum.
Although it may be an allegedly free country ... sensible people expect book reviewers to have at least read the book ... and if others do not wish their intelligence to be insulted by joining nincompoops in arguing the toss on a chat line which tolerates such dishonesty ... that is entirely up to them ... not you.
Is there any reason why you appear unable to stick to the theme of a thread??
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 06, 2015, 08:05:52 PM
you should sign up...if you have absolutely nothing to do and are completely tired of life
It is much more fun on here watching the antics of folk who take themselves far too seriously. As for having nothing to do; compare your posting rate with mine and that does not include your "against the rules" posts that are given the bums rush. Hey ho says Rowley
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2015, 08:12:43 PM
I don't feel the need to post in another place then quote myself and add plaudits on a properly moderated forum.
Although it may be an allegedly free country ... sensible people expect book reviewers to have at least read the book ... and if others do not wish their intelligence to be insulted by joining nincompoops in arguing the toss on a chat line which tolerates such dishonesty ... that is entirely up to them ... not you.
Is there any reason why you appear unable to stick to the theme of a thread??
I am quite able to stick to a theme.
However, you try to bend threads to reflect your total bias to the mccanns.
You aren't fooling anyone on that by the way, in pretending to be open to alternative viewpoints.
As to amazon, the lack of McCann supporters on there merely reflects in the weakness of your and their positions on this case.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 08:34:34 PM
Hmmm ... wonder if you would mind terribly asking your fellow poster for a cite ... @)(++(* probably not, cites aren't really your thing.
The McCanns were not impressed by the story. This was on the Find Madeleine website, but it's not there now.
Statement March 5th 2010
Events this week have yet again been incomprehensible and particularly upsetting.
On Tuesday, the Public Prosecutor in Portugal released a large number of documents (relating to the investigation to find our daughter Madeleine) to the British Media, following their request for access. Disclosing such information publicly greatly jeopardises the search for Madeleine and puts witnesses and innocent members of the general public at risk (as well as causing them great anxiety). Release and publication of information in this manner also potentially compromises future investigations. It is difficult to see how anyone benefits from this week's actions.
It is imperative that the Authorities take responsibility for sensitive and confidential information. We, together with the general public, need assurances that this will not be allowed to happen again. Equally, we need absolute assurances that all credible information and leads will be investigated.
We also urge each individual working for the media to consider their own personal responsibility - to put commercial interests aside occasionally and to bear in mind the potential consequences of their actions, especially when people's lives and well-being are at risk.
Our own investigators have acted professionally and with complete integrity. We are eager to encourage anybody who has any information which may relate to Madeleine's abduction to contact our investigation team directly by phone (0845 838 4699 or 800 814 028), by email (http://www.investigation@findmadeleine.com/) or via the P.O box address given on the website. Information may be given anonymously via each route.
We are incredibly grateful to all those who continue to support us in our search for Madeleine. During weeks such as these, it is invaluable to know that we are not facing this difficult journey alone
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 06, 2015, 08:37:46 PM
it seems my post to faith has been removed... I was just expressing concern for a fellow poster wellbeing. Anyone suffering from depression and anxiety should not spend time on forums engaging in nasty argumnets...it will make there condition worse
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Admin on April 06, 2015, 08:38:14 PM
it seems my post to faith has been removed... I was just expressing concern for a fellow poster wellbeing. Anyone suffering from depression and anxiety should not spend time on forums engaging in nasty argumnets...it will make there condition worse
Members are reminded that abusive and insulting posts will attract a penalty followed by suspension.
Be warned!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: jassi on April 06, 2015, 09:00:02 PM
The McCanns were not impressed by the story. This was on the Find Madeleine website, but it's not there now.
Statement March 5th 2010
Events this week have yet again been incomprehensible and particularly upsetting.
On Tuesday, the Public Prosecutor in Portugal released a large number of documents (relating to the investigation to find our daughter Madeleine) to the British Media, following their request for access. Disclosing such information publicly greatly jeopardises the search for Madeleine and puts witnesses and innocent members of the general public at risk (as well as causing them great anxiety). Release and publication of information in this manner also potentially compromises future investigations. It is difficult to see how anyone benefits from this week's actions.
It is imperative that the Authorities take responsibility for sensitive and confidential information. We, together with the general public, need assurances that this will not be allowed to happen again. Equally, we need absolute assurances that all credible information and leads will be investigated.
We also urge each individual working for the media to consider their own personal responsibility - to put commercial interests aside occasionally and to bear in mind the potential consequences of their actions, especially when people's lives and well-being are at risk.
Our own investigators have acted professionally and with complete integrity. We are eager to encourage anybody who has any information which may relate to Madeleine's abduction to contact our investigation team directly by phone (0845 838 4699 or 800 814 028), by email (http://www.investigation@findmadeleine.com/) or via the P.O box address given on the website. Information may be given anonymously via each route.
We are incredibly grateful to all those who continue to support us in our search for Madeleine. During weeks such as these, it is invaluable to know that we are not facing this difficult journey alone
Hadn't seen that before. Just goes to show the impossility of removing something once posted on the internet.
Certainly gives the impression that they were less than happy about the release of the information into the public domain.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2015, 09:27:51 PM
However, you try to bend threads to reflect your total bias to the mccanns.
You aren't fooling anyone on that by the way, in pretending to be open to alternative viewpoints.
As to amazon, the lack of McCann supporters on there merely reflects in the weakness of your and their positions on this case.
What in your opinion is the case, Stephen?
The search for Madeleine McCann which some think is a worthwhile exercise? Or is it hounding her parents which some seem to think takes precedence over a missing child and is far more fun?
Whatever gave you the notion that I am open to vile viewpoints from those whose only view is a myopic and malevolent one?
Your insistence that we all troop over and post on Amazon could be considered another manifestation of your unimaginative outlook. Please desist, you are at risk of making yourself appear ridiculous and obsessive.
Are you on commission or something??
Now as I was saying somewhere ... the pejorative concentration on two words which when taken in context are perfectly understandable is rendered risible when it is realised the justification for outrage is the identity of the person who (did not) utter them.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2015, 11:06:08 PM
The McCanns were not impressed by the story. This was on the Find Madeleine website, but it's not there now.
Statement March 5th 2010
Events this week have yet again been incomprehensible and particularly upsetting.
On Tuesday, the Public Prosecutor in Portugal released a large number of documents (relating to the investigation to find our daughter Madeleine) to the British Media, following their request for access. Disclosing such information publicly greatly jeopardises the search for Madeleine and puts witnesses and innocent members of the general public at risk (as well as causing them great anxiety). Release and publication of information in this manner also potentially compromises future investigations. It is difficult to see how anyone benefits from this week's actions.
It is imperative that the Authorities take responsibility for sensitive and confidential information. We, together with the general public, need assurances that this will not be allowed to happen again. Equally, we need absolute assurances that all credible information and leads will be investigated.
We also urge each individual working for the media to consider their own personal responsibility - to put commercial interests aside occasionally and to bear in mind the potential consequences of their actions, especially when people's lives and well-being are at risk.
Our own investigators have acted professionally and with complete integrity. We are eager to encourage anybody who has any information which may relate to Madeleine's abduction to contact our investigation team directly by phone (0845 838 4699 or 800 814 028), by email (http://www.investigation@ (http://www.investigation@)findmadeleine.com/) or via the P.O box address given on the website. Information may be given anonymously via each route.
We are incredibly grateful to all those who continue to support us in our search for Madeleine. During weeks such as these, it is invaluable to know that we are not facing this difficult journey alone
Amarals answer to it, was, Thanks to Astro (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/03/goncalo-amaral-most-important-thing-is.html) for translation What is happening "is propaganda", given that "nobody is looking for the little girl, neither here nor there (in England)". These words are from former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who sees the criticism from the McCann couple and from the English press against the Portuguese investigation as pure "folklore".
"These sightings, that are being talked about, almost always came from the English police, if they are so important, as some people are saying now, why weren't they investigated by Scotland Yard? After all, the little girl is a British citizen," the author of the book "The Truth of the Lie", based on the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in the Algarve, in 2007, recalls.
"The important things is not going around talking about sightings, saying that the little girl was seen here and there, the important thing is to reopen the process. The truth is that after I left Portimão, nothing more was done, the process was archived by the Public Ministry half way through, many diligences remained to be carried out, and that is what not allows for all sort of speculation," the former inspector told 24horas.
"The process was possibly archived half way through because the State was afraid of (the McCanns') demands for compensation. That fear was also transmitted to us by our colleagues, the English policemen, who used to say that it was a very common thing in England," Gonçalo Amaral recalled.
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, has a very different opinion about the evolution of the Maddie case. For her, "it is shocking and sad" that the leads that are now being publicly revealed "were not handed over to the parents". The revelation of that information is also criticised by Isabel Duarte, because "it puts the little girl's safety at risk".
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 07, 2015, 01:18:08 AM
Amarals answer to it, was, Thanks to Astro (http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/03/goncalo-amaral-most-important-thing-is.html) for translation What is happening "is propaganda", given that "nobody is looking for the little girl, neither here nor there (in England)". These words are from former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who sees the criticism from the McCann couple and from the English press against the Portuguese investigation as pure "folklore".
"These sightings, that are being talked about, almost always came from the English police, if they are so important, as some people are saying now, why weren't they investigated by Scotland Yard? After all, the little girl is a British citizen," the author of the book "The Truth of the Lie", based on the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in the Algarve, in 2007, recalls.
"The important things is not going around talking about sightings, saying that the little girl was seen here and there, the important thing is to reopen the process. The truth is that after I left Portimão, nothing more was done, the process was archived by the Public Ministry half way through, many diligences remained to be carried out, and that is what not allows for all sort of speculation," the former inspector told 24horas.
"The process was possibly archived half way through because the State was afraid of (the McCanns') demands for compensation. That fear was also transmitted to us by our colleagues, the English policemen, who used to say that it was a very common thing in England," Gonçalo Amaral recalled.
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, has a very different opinion about the evolution of the Maddie case. For her, "it is shocking and sad" that the leads that are now being publicly revealed "were not handed over to the parents". The revelation of that information is also criticised by Isabel Duarte, because "it puts the little girl's safety at risk".
Forewarned is forearmed and the people who could very well have profited from the release of this information are the perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine.
The timing is interesting.
The Drs McCann had met with the Home Secretary to plead for a review into Madeleine's case. Alan Johnston the Home Secretary was sympathetic to such a review. Talks were taking place with the Portuguese. Guilhermino Encarnacao, head of the PJ and a firm believer that Madeleine was dead had died. The disgraceful disclosure that Ricardo Paiva had not been investigating information sent to the PJ added pressure.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 07, 2015, 07:02:07 AM
The search for Madeleine McCann which some think is a worthwhile exercise? Or is it hounding her parents which some seem to think takes precedence over a missing child and is far more fun?
Whatever gave you the notion that I am open to vile viewpoints from those whose only view is a myopic and malevolent one?
Your insistence that we all troop over and post on Amazon could be considered another manifestation of your unimaginative outlook. Please desist, you are at risk of making yourself appear ridiculous and obsessive.
Are you on commission or something??
Now as I was saying somewhere ... the pejorative concentration on two words which when taken in context are perfectly understandable is rendered risible when it is realised the justification for outrage is the identity of the person who (did not) utter them.
My opinion is well known as to what happened to Madeleine.
I view the investigation to be a waste of time, as it has proved to be.
You are clearly obsessive in your support of the mccanns and abduction, when there is not one iota of evidence to support that.
As to the other forum, my point has been well made.
'Whatever gave you the not ion that I am open to vile viewpoints from those whose only view is a myopic and malevolent one? '
..........and that statement really does reveal your mindset.
Unfortunately for you, real people, who are perfectly normal, socially and emotionally , don't believe the mccanns.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 07, 2015, 07:39:18 AM
SY have spent 10 million pounds investigating an abduction...they are the professionals..
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 07, 2015, 07:43:28 AM
The shelved PJ enquiry ruled out the McCanns and their friends, stressed by Andy Redwood way back.
No it didn't, the AG final report stated they had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence, not really the same thing but carry on obfuscating. Redwood never established anything of consequence in the entire time he led Operation Grange, all bets are still on I'm afraid.
Added for good measure. Regardless of their involvement or non involvement in Maddie's disappearance there is a case to answer in relation to the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice but that's for another thread coming soon.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: ferryman on April 07, 2015, 11:58:44 AM
No it didn't, the AG final report stated they had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence, not really the same thing but carry on obfuscating. Redwood never established anything of consequence in the entire time he led Operation Grange, all bets are still on I'm afraid.
Added for good measure. Regardless of their involvement or non involvement in Maddie's disappearance there is a case to answer in relation to the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice but that's for another thread coming soon.
The McCanns lost an opportunity to demonstrate their innocence, not needed, as the report itself (of the prosecutors) stressed ...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 07, 2015, 12:18:44 PM
It was not acceptable for Kate to publicise the words.
Dr McCann's words are included in her book as an honest record of her experience while being shown the videos we have seen of a frenetic dog, which was being paused while Ricardo Paiva demanded answers as to why the dog was alerting to her daughter's blood.
She couldn't answer the question. However it didn't really matter, did it? ... Ricardo Paiva already had the answer ... he knew the minuscule spots were not Madeleine's blood because he had the FSS report to hand.
Possibly excellent interview technique to trap a criminal ... possibly an unethical ordeal to subject a grieving mother to.
Some of us may say we are offended by "f*****g tosser" ... some of us may consider that when said in the context of the time and circumstances in which it was said it is understandable. A retrospective look at what Ricardo Paiva knew at the time possibly renders it quite appropriate.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Angelo222 on April 07, 2015, 06:29:31 PM
I wonder what Mrs Healy thought of her GP daughters comments? I bet she was humiliated. Oh the shame!!
To answer your post Brie, there was no need to print the vulgar comment at all. She could just as easily have explained what she thought of her Portuguese liaison officer in simple English.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 07, 2015, 06:30:49 PM
I wonder what Mrs Healy thought of her GP daughters comment? I bet she was humiliated.
I doubt very much that Mrs Healy would appreciate the ordeal that Ricardo Paiva deliberately put her daughter through ... I think she would have been sick to her stomach at the thought if not enraged by the realisation that no-one was looking for her granddaughter.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Brietta on April 07, 2015, 06:46:50 PM
I wonder what Mrs Healy thought of her GP daughters comments? I bet she was humiliated. Oh the shame!!
To answer your post Brie, there was no need to print the vulgar comment at all. She could just as easily have explained what she thought of her Portuguese liaison officer in simple English.
It is not a description I would use myself under normal circumstances; but were I writing a factual account of events when I had used it ... I would not have bowdlerised the occurrence.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Angelo222 on April 07, 2015, 06:47:00 PM
I doubt very much that Mrs Healy would appreciate the ordeal that Ricardo Paiva deliberately put her daughter through ... I think she would have been sick to her stomach at the thought if not enraged by the realisation that no-one was looking for her granddaughter.
I think you just might have the cart before the horse there. The ordeal as you put it was of their own making.
A massive land and sea search was undertaken for weeks by both government agencies and the public and not a sign was ever found of her. Out of interest. where would you have them look?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 07, 2015, 06:52:38 PM
I wonder what Mrs Healy thought of her GP daughters comments? I bet she was humiliated. Oh the shame!!
To answer your post Brie, there was no need to print the vulgar comment at all. She could just as easily have explained what she thought of her Portuguese liaison officer in simple English.
I bet Mrs Healy was very proud of her daughter's book, f..king tossers and all.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 07, 2015, 06:54:47 PM
It's a matter of appropriateness, dignity, standards and class. Some understand those words, some don't.
You come across as rather priggish and prim, is it never acceptable under any circumstances to use the words f..king tosser in your view? Have you ever uttered an expletive in your life?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Angelo222 on April 07, 2015, 06:54:59 PM
I think you just might have the cart before the horse there. The ordeal as you put it was of their own making.
A massive land and sea search was undertaken for weeks by both government agencies and the public and not a sign was ever found of her. Out of interest. where would you have them look?
Perhaps more attention should have been given to witness accounts. In abduction cases very often witnesses provide the only available evidential route.
Reopening the case was based on witness evidence which had not been followed through. How much easier that would have been in 2007 ... but once Goncalo Amaral had decided on his theory of parental involvement, which he tells us in his book was the 4th May, the die was cast.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Angelo222 on April 07, 2015, 06:58:40 PM
You come across as rather priggish and prim, is it never acceptable under any circumstances to use the words f.....g tosser in your view? Have you ever uttered an expletive in your life?
It was in very bad taste. She didn't dare call any of the British officers f...... t....... but then she knew better.
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 07, 2015, 07:12:25 PM
I think you just might have the cart before the horse there. The ordeal as you put it was of their own making.
A massive land and sea search was undertaken for weeks by both government agencies and the public and not a sign was ever found of her. Out of interest. where would you have them look?
1:35 Susan Healy: They won't be refusing to answer any questions! So it's in their own interest to allow the police to do this!
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 07, 2015, 07:15:27 PM
It was in very bad taste. She didn't dare call any of the British officers f...... t....... but then she knew better.
She had no reason to call any of the British Officers f..king tossers, but even if she had, what do you think they would have done to her as a result?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 07, 2015, 07:24:21 PM
Of the hundreds of positive reviews Kate's book has received on Amazon and elsewhere how many even mention the effing tosser remark, let alone complain about it?
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: stephen25000 on April 07, 2015, 07:26:12 PM
You come across as rather priggish and prim, is it never acceptable under any circumstances to use the words f.....g tosser in your view? Have you ever uttered an expletive in your life?
You make me sound like the proverbial maiden aunt. How sad when people who find swearing acceptable can't understand that expletives are not necessarily used by all and sundry. I was an army wife and the only soldiers who swore in front of women in my day were the Scottish ones, particularly the Glaswegians because it was part of their everyday vocabulary. The others would tell them off. Now women think it's clever to use foul language themselves, but I think it's a sign of lack of vocabulary and self respect.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 07, 2015, 07:46:50 PM
You make me sound like the proverbial maiden aunt. How sad when people who find swearing acceptable can't understand that expletives are not necessarily used by all and sundry. I was an army wife and the only soldiers who swore in front of women in my day were the Scottish ones, particularly the Glaswegians because it was part of their everyday vocabulary. The others would tell them off. Now women think it's clever to use foul language themselves, but I think it's a sign of lack of vocabulary and self respect.
Do you think Kate lacks vocabulary...what words would you find acceptable in the circumstances...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 07, 2015, 07:55:57 PM
Of the hundreds of positive reviews Kate's book has received on Amazon and elsewhere how many even mention the effing tosser remark, let alone complain about it?
The thread title seems to be: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive? According to your post, at best a few hundred people who having read the book gave a positive review, whatever that may mean, did not comment. The logic seems to be their silence is approval and/or they did not find it offensive. I might believe that had they been asked the specific question but it seems they were not asked. As it stands 'tis merely your "reading" of the meaning of the reviews. I don't think one can draw any conclusion from the reviews with respect to whether or not the reviewers found the remark offensive. So there we go we now have two stakes in the ground 8(>((
Title: Re:Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive
Post by: sadie on April 07, 2015, 10:30:39 PM
The thread title seems to be: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive? According to your post, at best a few hundred people who having read the book gave a positive review, whatever that may mean, did not comment. The logic seems to be their silence is approval and/or they did not find it offensive. I might believe that had they been asked the specific question but it seems they were not asked. As it stands 'tis merely your "reading" of the meaning of the reviews. I don't think one can draw any conclusion from the reviews with respect to whether or not the reviewers found the remark offensive. So there we go we now have two stakes in the ground 8(>((
With respect I don't give an effing toss what you think. 8(>((
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2015, 07:47:39 AM
I can see why some support Kate McCann's comment. They react in a similar manner when they have no valid answers.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 08:00:16 AM
I can see why some support Kate McCann's comment. They react in a similar manner when they have no valid answers.
You cannot accept that people have a different opinion to you...a very uneducated stance. There are very few answers at the moment...allowing people like you to speculate and imagine your opinions are facts
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 08, 2015, 08:03:53 AM
You cannot accept that people have a different opinion to you...a very uneducated stance. There are very few answers at the moment...allowing people like you to speculate and imagine your opinions are facts
..and that is precisely what you do.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 08:06:59 AM
You cannot accept that people have a different opinion to you...a very uneducated stance. There are very few answers at the moment...allowing people like you to speculate and imagine your opinions are facts
I think you have that the wrong way round davel. @)(++(*
I was merely commenting on how some people attack others when they don't like what they're saying. Do Jesuits swear I wonder? I wouldn't be surprised myself.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 08, 2015, 08:16:13 AM
I can see why some support Kate McCann's comment. They react in a similar manner when they have no valid answers.
For a bunch of "sceptics" who profess to be great believers in freedom of expression you really are a precious lot. There is no definitive answer to the question posed by this thread. It is wholly subjective and a matter of opinion. You think f.....g tossers is beyond the pale, I don't. You probably held Mary Whitehouse in high esteem too, I didn't. You are perfectly entitled to being utterly disgusted and outraged by Kate's comment, just as i am entitled to view it as a perfectly understandable comment given the circs. Nothing, not another million words on the subject, is going to change our views (on this or anything else).
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 08, 2015, 08:18:12 AM
I think you have that the wrong way round davel. @)(++(*
I was merely commenting on how some people attack others when they don't like what they're saying. Do Jesuits swear I wonder? I wouldn't be surprised myself.
I can see why you find it difficult when you do not understand context. Kate saying in a surgery to a patient would result in serious professional charges whereas in this situation it seems the GMC have deemed it acceptable.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 08:31:40 AM
Based on the evidence I have seen...based on what SY are investigating...it seems that abduction is the most probable scenario. SY seem not to be considering the woke and wandered theory...I have my reasons why that is...
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 08, 2015, 08:33:10 AM
Based on the evidence I have seen...based on what SY are investigating...it seems that abduction is the most probable scenario. SY seem not to be considering the woke and wandered theory...I have my reasons why that is...
What evidence have you seen ?
You are not privy to the police or this case.
You would not have access to the police files.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 08:46:46 AM
For a bunch of "sceptics" who profess to be great believers in freedom of expression you really are a precious lot. There is no definitive answer to the question posed by this thread. It is wholly subjective and a matter of opinion. You think f.....g tossers is beyond the pale, I don't. You probably held Mary Whitehouse in high esteem too, I didn't. You are perfectly entitled to being utterly disgusted and outraged by Kate's comment, just as i am perfectly entitled to view it as a perfectly understandable comment given the circs. Nothing, not another million words on the subject, is going to change our views (on this or anything else).
There you go again making assumptions and being slightly insulting. What a bad habit to get into.
My point (again) is that the words used are offensive by definition, they come under the heading of bad language, which is defined as coarse and offensive. That is a fact. Therefore the comment was offensive.
We have then all spent ages arguing whether it's OK to use bad language sometimes. Lots of people think it's fine. I don't think it's either acceptable or necessary. My opinion is not accepted as a valid one however, and I'm mocked and insulted for it. Very mature.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 08, 2015, 08:58:45 AM
There you go again making assumptions and being slightly insulting. What a bad habit to get into.
My point (again) is that the words used are offensive by definition, they come under the heading of bad language, which is defined as coarse and offensive. That is a fact. Therefore the comment was offensive.
We have then all spent ages arguing whether it's OK to use bad language sometimes. Lots of people think it's fine. I don't think it's either acceptable or necessary. My opinion is not accepted as a valid one however, and I'm mocked and insulted for it. Very mature.
gosh, you're touchy. The words are only offensive if they cause offence, hence it is subjective. I don't think "blimey" or "god" used as a mild swear are offensive, but some Christians would. Your opinion is perfectly valid, and I'm sure you're more than capable of rising above the mockery and insults.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2015, 09:05:32 AM
I can see why you find it difficult when you do not understand context. Kate saying in a surgery to a patient would result in serious professional charges whereas in this situation it seems the GMC have deemed it acceptable.
Why do you think i don't understand context? That's your opinion, just as saying using coarse and offensive language is OK if used in the right context is your opinion. Which context it can be used in is also a matter of opinion. When you're not giving us your opinions you're making assumptions, as above about the GMC. The only 'evidence' you can give for the abduction theory is lack of evidence for any other scenario (in your opinion); oh - and it's logical (in your opinion).
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2015, 09:15:55 AM
gosh, you're touchy. The words are only offensive if they cause offence, hence it is subjective. I don't think "blimey" or "god" used as a mild swear are offensive, but some Christians would. Your opinion is perfectly valid, and I'm sure you're more than capable of rising above the mockery and insults.
There you go again - every post has to contain a 'dig'. Look up bad language the words are offensive words, that isn't subjective, it's a matter of definition. You may choose not to take offence, but the words are still offensive, your opinion can't change that fact. You accept I am mocked and insulted then? Thank you for your honesty. Of course it doesn't bother me, it's just frustrating sometimes when the only way people can dismiss my posts is by attacking me instead of my opinions.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Benice on April 08, 2015, 09:34:04 AM
I can see why some support Kate McCann's comment. They react in a similar manner when they have no valid answers.
It simply never occurs to me to swear- but I can't say I have NEVER sworn - and I can fully understand why Kate did so in such horrendous circumstances.
Also - I don't believe that unless a person coped with a stressful situation in exactly the same way that I think I would have - then they have done something terribly wrong and deserve to be held to account - for what is in effect - the 'crime' of being different to me.
The stress/pressure Kate was under at that time was immense. As I have never been in such an horrific situation - who am I to criticise her way of coping with it.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 08, 2015, 09:37:56 AM
There you go again - every post has to contain a 'dig'. Look up bad language the words are offensive words, that isn't subjective, it's a matter of definition. You may choose not to take offence, but the words are still offensive, your opinion can't change that fact. You accept I am mocked and insulted then? Thank you for your honesty. Of course it doesn't bother me, it's just frustrating sometimes when the only way people can dismiss my posts is by attacking me instead of my opinions.
Of course the words are offensive. What good would it have done Kate if she had muttered under her breath [she did not say those words aloud] 'Nasty tossers' what help would that have been? The words Kate used are strong and forceful, offensive yes, they helped her through a very difficult situation.
How many times do you see people who would never swear normally, utter a profanity when under extreme stress?
That is why it needs to be taken in context, I don't hold it against Kate I wouldn't hold it against anyone who was in similar situations.
I am sure Paiva if he read Kate's book would probably think to himself, well yes, she was being accused of hiding her child's body. I doubt if he would throw up his hands in offense.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 08, 2015, 09:39:21 AM
There you go again - every post has to contain a 'dig'. Look up bad language the words are offensive words, that isn't subjective, it's a matter of definition. You may choose not to take offence, but the words are still offensive, your opinion can't change that fact. You accept I am mocked and insulted then? Thank you for your honesty. Of course it doesn't bother me, it's just frustrating sometimes when the only way people can dismiss my posts is by attacking me instead of my opinions.
If it is a matter of fact that the words Kate used are offensive then why was the question even posed in the first place? should the publisher have removed this "offensive" passage? You say it is unacceptable to use offensive language, so should people be fined or given an Asbo or imprisoned for using it, in your view?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2015, 10:24:49 AM
The discussion on whether or not “f*****g tosser” is offensive to some and not to others is one which I would have thought more apt if taking place in the bible belt. Now that the 'body language' gurus have been outed anything on which to base criticism must be used to best effect even if relevant or not.
Indeed I can understand people being offended. I think that is probably the purpose of offensive language … but there is so much more to get hot under the collar about in Madeleine McCann's case that I find the emphasis on two words which her mother told us she used absolutely hilarious. The simple reason being that those who categorically refuse to believe a word Kate McCann utters, have built the cursing atrocity attributed directly to her into their lexicon.
The words and the faux outrage pale into insignificance when the real curse worthy failures and paranoia associated with the initial investigation are looked at.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 08, 2015, 10:44:55 AM
The discussion on whether or not “f*****g tosser” is offensive to some and not to others is one which I would have thought more apt if taking place in the bible belt. Now that the 'body language' gurus have been outed anything on which to base criticism must be used to best effect even if relevant or not.
Indeed I can understand people being offended. I think that is probably the purpose of offensive language … but there is so much more to get hot under the collar about in Madeleine McCann's case that I find the emphasis on two words which her mother told us she used absolutely hilarious. The simple reason being that those who categorically refuse to believe a word Kate McCann utters, have built the cursing atrocity attributed directly to her into their lexicon.
The words and the faux outrage pale into insignificance when the real curse worthy failures and paranoia associated with the initial investigation are looked at.
Why?
I suppose one question is "did she really say it or is it just poetic licence in the book"?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 08, 2015, 10:46:14 AM
I don't understand why this is (so far) a 31-page thread.
If the book had simply worded it differently, e.g., "I mentally expressed my disappointment in him using rude words"... would that have been more acceptable?
Or is this nitpicking to avoid the issue of what it must feel like to realise that someone you trusted to help find your child is now accusing you of criminal activity against your own child (months later) and - worse - the realisation tht he must have stopped helping to find her some time ago?
Which is more offensive?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensiv
Post by: Angelo222 on April 08, 2015, 10:49:18 AM
The comment repeated twice was a broadsides just for Paiva's benefit and nothing more. A childish comment in an otherwise reasonable book.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 08, 2015, 10:49:37 AM
I don't understand why this is (so far) a 31-page thread.
If the book had simply worded it differently, e.g., "I mentally expressed my disappointment in him using rude words"... would that have been more acceptable?
Or is this nitpicking to avoid the issue of what it must feel like to realise that someone you trusted to help find your child is now accusing you of criminal activity against your own child (months later) and - worse - the realisation tht he must have stopped helping to find her some time ago?
Which is more offensive?
He was a policeman Carana, not the McCanns friend. He was simply doing his job.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 08, 2015, 10:55:26 AM
He was a policeman Carana, not the McCanns friend. He was simply doing his job.
The fact is Alice you do not know what you would say in those circumstances, they are circumstances that hopefully no one here will ever to be in, they are circumstances that unless you are there and actually going through it you cannot imagine.
Kate McCann directed her words at him, he was the person who had befriended them, his children had played with hers, he was to her someone who didn't deserve her respect at the time.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2015, 11:09:21 AM
The discussion on whether or not “f*****g tosser” is offensive to some and not to others is one which I would have thought more apt if taking place in the bible belt. Is it only religious people who are offended by bad language then? Rather a sweeping assumption IMO Now that the 'body language' gurus have been outed anything on which to base criticism must be used to best effect even if relevant or not. I haven't discussed body language but I know UK police have had such experts watching people making TV appeals because they're suspicious of them
Indeed I can understand people being offended. Well done! I think that is probably the purpose of offensive language … but there is so much more to get hot under the collar about in Madeleine McCann's case that I find the emphasis on two words which her mother told us she used absolutely hilarious. There sure is The simple reason being that those who categorically refuse to believe a word Kate McCann utters, have built the cursing atrocity attributed directly to her into their lexicon. The only reason some people don't believe some of Kate McCann's 'utterances' is because they don't make sense.
The words and the faux outrage pale into insignificance when the real curse worthy failures and paranoia associated with the initial investigation are looked at.
In chapter 6 of his book, Goncalo Amaral states ...
We insist on knowing what our English counterparts have come to Portugal to do. I assign one of my investigators to follow the English superintendent like a shadow and to keep me informed about his actions. I want to be informed of everything he learns, the names of the people he meets and the places he goes to. There is reason to suspect that the UK police were over-friendly with the parents. They seem to have been emotionally involved which is not useful to any investigation. Amaral spotted that.
We know Paiva speaks excellent English, so although not named he would be my choice for this task … but whatever … the deployment succinctly sums up exactly where the priorities of the chief investigator lay in the case of a missing child. If his investigation was suggesting that he look at the parents he would be justified in making sure they weren't forewarned by policemen who may have lost their objectivity
I find it extraordinary and I find it so much more offensive than a helpless mother muttering “f*****g tosser” under her breath that instead of prioritising the search for a missing child as was their duty … the priority for the PJ was suspicion of and spying on the British police.
I wouldn't describe Kate McCann as helpless myself. I would agree that she likes to portray herself that way until someone or something upsets her. The PJ's duty was to investigate the case which is what they did. They did far more actual searching than the parents and their friends. They cancelled leave and worked round the clock while the parents called their friends back from the search to mind their twins for them, gave interviews to the media, visited the Pope and asked all and sundry to Look for Madeleine. Local people did more searching than the parents did! The PJ were not alone in suspecting the parents either. You seem to think your opinion of the case is the only one possible. Not true.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: faithlilly on April 08, 2015, 11:11:52 AM
You see Alfie no good ever comes of using profane language ( even if done badly) ! 40% watched eh ! Glad to see the mods have a sense of propriety.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 08, 2015, 11:13:08 AM
He was a policeman Carana, not the McCanns friend. He was simply doing his job.
I'd have been fuming that I hadn't been thoroughly investigated and eliminated months previously so as to concentrate again on finding my missing child.
And attempting to make me believe that dog alerts in clearly non-blind circumstances were somehow supposed to indicate my guilt, let alone trying to tell me that LCN was a "gold standard".
That, too, was his job.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2015, 11:19:35 AM
Why? As for the rest you seem to have lost sight of the thread title. I suppose one question is "did she really say it or is it just poetic licence in the book"?
Inadvertently Dr McCann had hit on a technique which enabled her to handle aggressive questioning, very much as others have discovered their own coping mechanisms when under the stress of a police interview.
Different accusations, different interviews but same techniques both for interviewer and interviewee.
Both women knew they were innocent which was borne out by neither being charged.
There the similarity ends.
One was accused of the theft of some miniature bottles of alcohol the other of disposing of her daughter and being shown what was alleged to be her daughter's blood.
One tried to pray to quietly ... the other found strength in cursing quietly. So what?
**snip
“And while being questioned over a seven-hour period I had my rosary beads removed from me and was accused, very specifically, of acting like an IRA terrorist for simply following my QC’s instructions and remaining silent.
I'd have been fuming that I hadn't been thoroughly investigated and eliminated months previously so as to concentrate again on finding my missing child.
And attempting to make me believe that dog alerts in clearly non-blind circumstances were somehow supposed to indicate my guilt, let alone trying to tell me that LCN was a "gold standard".
That, too, was his job.
Perhaps her anger needs to be directed at her own PI Dave Edgar too then.
I wouldn't describe Kate McCann as helpless myself. I would agree that she likes to portray herself that way until someone or something upsets her. The PJ's duty was to investigate the case which is what they did. They did far more actual searching than the parents and their friends. They cancelled leave and worked round the clock while the parents called their friends back from the search to mind their twins for them, gave interviews to the media, visited the Pope and asked all and sundry to Look for Madeleine. Local people did more searching than the parents did! The PJ were not alone in suspecting the parents either. You seem to think your opinion of the case is the only one possible. Not true.
My opinion of the case has as much relevance and value as yours or any other of us armchair detectives posting here there and everywhere.
But just as we seem to disagree on the "f*****g tosser" atrocity ... it seems we will probably disagree on almost everything connected with the conduct of Madeleine's case.
I can live with that.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Lace on April 08, 2015, 11:29:22 AM
I wouldn't describe Kate McCann as helpless myself. I would agree that she likes to portray herself that way until someone or something upsets her. The PJ's duty was to investigate the case which is what they did. They did far more actual searching than the parents and their friends. They cancelled leave and worked round the clock while the parents called their friends back from the search to mind their twins for them, gave interviews to the media, visited the Pope and asked all and sundry to Look for Madeleine. Local people did more searching than the parents did! The PJ were not alone in suspecting the parents either. You seem to think your opinion of the case is the only one possible. Not true.
Well Kate McCann WAS helpless, yes she is probably a strong woman normally, but faced with your child going missing and not found, not knowing where she was or who she was with, I would say that she was feeling helpless.
When did the McCann's call their friends back from the search to mind the twins for them?
Of course they give interviews, for goodness sake all parents of missing children give interviews. As for meeting the Pope, Clarence Mitchell said the Pope had shown an interest in the McCann case and a meeting was arranged. Why would they turn it down? Kate says in her book that the Pope was the next thing to God in their eyes, it helped them and it put the word out to the crowds there that Madeleine was missing.
Asking people to search for Madeleine meant for them to look out for her in the different countries she could have been taken to. They didn't know where she was so this was the only way to try and find her.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 08, 2015, 03:58:05 PM
Inadvertently Dr McCann had hit on a technique which enabled her to handle aggressive questioning, very much as others have discovered their own coping mechanisms when under the stress of a police interview.
Different accusations, different interviews but same techniques both for interviewer and interviewee.
Both women knew they were innocent which was borne out by neither being charged.
There the similarity ends.
One was accused of the theft of some miniature bottles of alcohol the other of disposing of her daughter and being shown what was alleged to be her daughter's blood.
One tried to pray to quietly ... the other found strength in cursing quietly. So what?
**snip
“And while being questioned over a seven-hour period I had my rosary beads removed from me and was accused, very specifically, of acting like an IRA terrorist for simply following my QC’s instructions and remaining silent.
I am not clear on why you feel the post is relevant to the thread title: "Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?" I presume you think it wasn't. You could come right out and say so I guess rather than prevaricate.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: misty on April 08, 2015, 04:24:44 PM
Can't we just have a poll & be done with it?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2015, 05:08:18 PM
That possibly wouldn't answer the question. Which is, was the comment etc offensive. NOT do individual posters find it offensive. In the UK the comment would likely be an offence under Section 5 of The Public Order Act. Quite what it is Portugal I do not know.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Carana on April 08, 2015, 05:30:36 PM
I don't see the point of forum polls. What would it indicate?
All of a sudden, dozens of people who rarely post here would express their "disgust" or "approval" or "don't care" over two words expressed in a moment of despair?
Yeah...
It doesn't change the facts, does it?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
That possibly wouldn't answer the question. Which is, was the comment etc offensive. NOT do individual posters find it offensive. In the UK the comment would likely be an offence under Section 5 of The Public Order Act. Quite what it is Portugal I do not know.
It was said under her breath
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 08, 2015, 06:36:23 PM
So in other words there is no independent corroboration it was ever said at all, it possibly being merely just poetic licence for effect in the book.
Yup.
You've got it Alice.
Done for effect.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 08, 2015, 07:15:03 PM
I wonder if there is a 30+ page thread on this subject on any other forum on the world wide web?
I guess not, and I guess it's probably what makes this forum so uniquely....unique. &%+((£
So the conclusion now seems to be Kate never actually said "f..king tosser" under her breath, but decided to add this "highly offensive and unacceptable" term to her (no doubt) ghost-written memoirs in order to a) elicit sympathy (not really sure it worked!) and b) send a message to Paiva.
Glad we've got that all sorted.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 08, 2015, 08:58:37 PM
I wonder if there is a 30+ page thread on this subject on any other forum on the world wide web?
I guess not, and I guess it's probably what makes this forum so uniquely....unique. &%+((£
So the conclusion now seems to be Kate never actually said "f.....g tosser" under her breath, but decided to add this "highly offensive and unacceptable" term to her (no doubt) ghost-written memoirs in order to a) elicit sympathy (not really sure it worked!) and b) send a message to Paiva.
Glad we've got that all sorted.
Well davel said she[Kate] only said "f*****g t****r" under her breath so on that basis no one really knows. Good innit
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 09:03:17 PM
There is also the possibility that the inaudible whisper was a non existent whisper.
I couldn't give a tos*....I hope I haven't offended anyone...it is just sooooo unimportant....but as there is b....r(sorry) all real facts to criticise the McCanns for ...this one will have to do
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 08, 2015, 10:05:25 PM
I couldn't give a tos*....I hope I haven't offended anyone...it is just sooooo unimportant....but as there is b....r(sorry) all real facts to criticise the McCanns for ...this one will have to do
Point out to me where I have been critical of the McCanns?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 08, 2015, 10:09:25 PM
Point out to me where I have been critical of the McCanns?
I'm speaking of the board in general but if I looked I reckon I could find an example for you
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 08, 2015, 11:01:11 PM
Excellent article here about the F word. Seems the higher you are up the class system the less likely you are to be offended by the word, which in itself is not deemed that offensive any more anyway (nor is tosser).
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 09, 2015, 10:38:05 AM
It was two to three years after the event she wrote the book so paraphrasing the faithful in other circumstances "you can't expect them to have perfect recall of events".
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 09, 2015, 06:42:21 PM
If you don't believe me just google the f.....g Fulfords. Top toff televisual entertainment.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Anna on April 14, 2015, 12:49:38 AM
Please try to stay with the topic of the thread, Thank you
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 14, 2015, 09:08:44 AM
That possibly wouldn't answer the question. Which is, was the comment etc offensive. NOT do individual posters find it offensive. In the UK the comment would likely be an offence under Section 5 of The Public Order Act. Quite what it is Portugal I do not know.
It may have been, 31 years ago.....
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 10:03:47 AM
If it had been said aloud it might have been ... but it loses quite a bit of it's thrust when written in a book.
I am left with the impression that those affecting horror think that 'modesty' dictates they should cover their piano legs, and why not? they subscribe to every other myth doing the rounds it seems.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 10:47:46 AM
If it had been said aloud it might have been ... but it loses quite a bit of it's thrust when written in a book.
I am left with the impression that those affecting horror think that 'modesty' dictates they should cover their piano legs, and why not? they subscribe to every other myth doing the rounds it seems.
I don't find it offensive. But that wasn't the question posed. You seem to be scraping the bottom of the hogshead here old stick.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2015, 11:00:05 PM
so it is relevant that you don't find it offensive
How?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 09:16:51 AM
I read the question as asking 'Was the comment offensive?' I looked up 'bad language' and it is defined as 'coarse or offensive'. As the comment is what we would probably describe as bad language then the answer is yes.
The question didn't say 'do you think the comment was offensive?' Then individual opinions come into play.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 09:20:55 AM
I read the question as asking 'Was the comment offensive?' I looked up 'bad language' and it is defined as 'coarse or offensive'. As the comment is what we would probably describe as bad language then the answer is yes.
The question didn't say 'do you think the comment was offensive?' Then individual opinions come into play.
If forums weren't about expressing opinions then most threads would last less than a page. This one should have ended on post 2 if you'd had your way!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 02:46:10 PM
It's nothing to do with 'my way', just pointing out the meaning of the question.
You keep telling us that there is only one answer to the question, that it is not about opinion, therefore it is about "your way" - ie: you have determined that anyone questioning whether or not the term is offensive is in the wrong. It IS offensive according to the dictionary and that's that - case closed!
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 07:00:54 PM
But then again Alfie, enyone expressing an opinion which does not fit in with your thinking is deemed to be 'bashing' someone or being a sceptic...
So, are or are we not to express an opinion? because Kate did express her opinions in her book. F.....T.....
Am I telling you not to express an opinion? Am I not allowed to give my opinion on your opinion? What is your problem with the word sceptic? Do you think it does not describe your stance adequately?
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 07:09:11 PM
You keep telling us that there is only one answer to the question, that it is not about opinion, therefore it is about "your way" - ie: you have determined that anyone questioning whether or not the term is offensive is in the wrong. It IS offensive according to the dictionary and that's that - case closed!
If you take the literal meaning of the question, yes. Instead everyone expressed their opinions and that's OK by me too. Some people didn't find the term offensive by their standards, others did. Some said context was important. We learned a lot about each other's views on offensive language.
That's not enough for some people though. They move on to personally attacking others for their opinions. That's where debate ends and turns into something else.
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 15, 2015, 07:10:40 PM
Am I telling you not to express an opinion? Am I not allowed to give my opinion on your opinion? What is your problem with the word sceptic? Do you think it does not describe your stance adequately?
and what are you Alfred, but an all out believer in 'cause mccann' .
Title: Re: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:28:41 PM
Am I telling you not to express an opinion? Am I not allowed to give my opinion on your opinion? What is your problem with the word sceptic? Do you think it does not describe your stance adequately?
Oh I have no issue wh- ever- about what you call me, I just wondred what the criteria was to be awarded such an accolade...Now I know.
If I question anything the McCanns did or do, and do not belive every single word ( even varying recollections of accounts) This makes, me a sceptic? ahhh see..
Can't even get to chose which version of the truth by Team McCanns I like.tsk!