UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: VIXTE on May 04, 2015, 12:45:48 AM
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Regarding the GNR dogs route and the car park and lampost.. isn't this quite interesting:
Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout
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Regarding the GNR dogs route and the car park and lampost.. isn't this quite interesting:
I think that calls for another efit and an appeal to trace the speeding car.
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Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
After 12 years she has put Casa Liliana up for sale. “It is very sad but the place has become a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons,” she said. “I get people banging on my gate and someone broke in once. I don’t feel safe. Robert’s life has been badly damaged by lies. It never goes away, it never ends. It gets you down.”
She will live with her daughter, Sammy, in Devon, but Robert, wife Michaela and their four-year-old son will remain on the Algarve.
“I might buy a small flat in Luz but we will see,” said Jenny. “It is not the same place.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/JS.jpg)
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Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
After 12 years she has put Casa Liliana up for sale. “It is very sad but the place has become a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons,” she said. “I get people banging on my gate and someone broke in once. I don’t feel safe. Robert’s life has been badly damaged by lies. It never goes away, it never ends. It gets you down.”
She will live with her daughter, Sammy, in Devon, but Robert, wife Michaela and their four-year-old son will remain on the Algarve.
“I might buy a small flat in Luz but we will see,” said Jenny. “It is not the same place.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/JS.jpg)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time
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So either Jane was hanging around outside the apartment block for half an hour or Jenny was much later home than she stated. Or perhaps she was just having a dig at the woman who allegedly implicated her son.
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Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
After 12 years she has put Casa Liliana up for sale. “It is very sad but the place has become a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons,” she said. “I get people banging on my gate and someone broke in once. I don’t feel safe. Robert’s life has been badly damaged by lies. It never goes away, it never ends. It gets you down.”
She will live with her daughter, Sammy, in Devon, but Robert, wife Michaela and their four-year-old son will remain on the Algarve.
“I might buy a small flat in Luz but we will see,” said Jenny. “It is not the same place.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout)
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm)
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/JS.jpg)
She didn't put that in her statement, PF.
She said
--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert'™s project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JENNIFER-MURAT.htm
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time
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So either Jane was hanging around outside the apartment block for half an hour or Jenny was much later home than she stated. Or perhaps she was just having a dig at the woman who allegedly implicated her son.
You've got it wrong! She said she went to the supermarket at 8 and after getting her shopping and coming back she saw the woman so by that time it is after 8pm and possibly connects to around 8:30.
"At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a."
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You've got it wrong! She said she went to the supermarket at 8 and after getting her shopping and coming back she saw the woman so by that time it is after 8pm and possibly connects to around 8:30.
"At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a."
What vehicle was she driving? Robert had the V/W & arrived home at the same time as her.
*snipped*
Everybody left together, went to the VW which was parked in the car park at the rear of the Marina, they gave a ride to Jorge S. and his son to the bus station, next to the CTT in the city centre Lagos. Then he went to the home of MICHAELA, close to 19.00. He said farewell to them in the VW and headed for his residence, where he arrived between 19.15 and 19.30. He parked the VW in front of the house and entered. He does not know if his mother was at home, but thinks so because it was late for her to walk the dogs, as they usually leave at 17:00 and return at 19.00.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
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[quote removed]
Sorry - was my question too difficult? I was merely addressing the inconsistencies in the mother & son's statements which have been conveniently overlooked by those who question the Tapas group not breathing in unison.
RM had been out all day in the VW. He stated he returned home at 7.15-7.30. If Jenny went out in the V/W at 7.50 to the Baptista, she would have known that her son had returned home (even if she hadn't actually seen him) but she didn't say that in her statement - she said RM returned home at the same time she was putting the vehicle she drove to the supermarket on the driveway. Pathfinder feels that she must have returned close to 8.30 to have seen Jane Tanner.
So, where had RM been between 7.30 & approx. 8.30 when Jenny said he returned home? A missing hour in his "alibi".
If Jenny didn't take the V/W to the supermarket, which vehicle was she driving? (bearing in mind the desperate need for a hire car when the V/W was indisposed a week later)
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How is it a missing hour when Gerry says that he saw Madeleine at about 21.00 h?
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[quote removed]
There are those who allege GM & RM knew each other. There are those who allege that something happened to Madeleine between 5.30 & 8.30. Yet you cannot see the relevance of a missing hour in an alibi?
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Casa Liliana is on a cul-de-sac, so that speeding car going the wrong way was magic.
And since Casa Liliana is 90m from the lamp post at the top of the street near 5A and block 6, Mrs Murat must have had razor sharp eyes, deployed whilst opening her gate and dodging a speeding car.
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Casa Liliana is on a cul-de-sac, so that speeding car going the wrong way was magic.
And since Casa Liliana is 90m from the lamp post at the top of the street near 5A and block 6, Mrs Murat must have had razor sharp eyes, deployed whilst opening her gate and dodging a speeding car.
It's amazing she could see the lampost at all, Luz, from the gates. It was like a jungle around those gates in 2007. I can't understand why she rang an MP in Devon, and Leicester police, to tell them. Why didn't she tell the PJ, in her statement, or tell Robert when she gave him the statements she got at her table? She gave no statement till Robert was made arguido, and never mentioned this.
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It's amazing she could see the lampost at all, Luz, from the gates. It was like a jungle around those gates in 2007. I can't understand why she rang an MP in Devon, and Leicester police, to tell them. Why didn't she tell the PJ, in her statement, or tell Robert when she gave him the statements she got at her table? She gave no statement till Robert was made arguido, and never mentioned this.
She reported this to the press back in 2009 but she wanted to remain anonymous back then.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/100071/EXCLUSIVE-Who-was-the-woman-outside-Maddie-s-flat
EXCLUSIVE: Who was the woman outside Maddie's flat?
A WOMAN was seen acting suspiciously outside Kate and Gerry McCann’s apartment just an hour before their daughter Madeleine was abducted.
By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, May 10, 2009
MYSTERY The slim Portuguese looking woman was seen outside the McCann s apartment
The slim, Portuguese-looking woman in a plum-coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept-back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex.
She was standing under a streetlight at a crossroads only 40 feet from where Madeleine was sleeping with her brother Sean and his twin sister Amelie.
Investigators are being urged to find her to see if she was in any way connected to a pockmarked prowler seen several times outside the apartment in the day leading up to the kidnap.
Details of the mystery woman have only just become known after a Sunday Express investigation into the baffling case was alerted by an elderly British woman who has lived in Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve for more than 30 years.
Speaking from her villa near the Ocean Club, the woman, who has asked not to be named, recalled: “On that night I went to the supermarket at the bottom of the road just before it closed at 8pm.
“As I drove past the entrance to the Ocean Club I saw a woman standing opposite Apartment 5A the McCanns were staying in.
“Even at that time of night the streets were deserted, so I was surprised to see someone there. I remember thinking it was unusual because it is just not the sort of place you would hang around.
“As I drove up to the junction she stepped around to the other side of the street lamp as though she didn’t want me to look at her. She was not carrying a bag or a mobile phone. I thought she might have been waiting for a lift but no car came along while I was there.
“I turned right and could see quite clearly she was looking at Apartment 5A.
“As I approached another junction a small, brown car, with just one English-looking man in it swung round and nearly hit mine.”
When she heard that Madeleine had vanished she asked a relative to inform the police about her sightings.
More than 30 people have so far phoned in about the artist’s impression shown on a Channel 4 documentary last Thursday of a scar-faced man seen loitering outside the McCanns’ apartment.
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The MP she contacted also made a point of raising a question on the case 17/3/2008 to the then-Home Secretary.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk
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She reported this to the press back in 2009 but she wanted to remain anonymous back then.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/100071/EXCLUSIVE-Who-was-the-woman-outside-Maddie-s-flat (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/100071/EXCLUSIVE-Who-was-the-woman-outside-Maddie-s-flat)
EXCLUSIVE: Who was the woman outside Maddie's flat?
A WOMAN was seen acting suspiciously outside Kate and Gerry McCann’s apartment just an hour before their daughter Madeleine was abducted.
By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, May 10, 2009
MYSTERY The slim Portuguese looking woman was seen outside the McCann s apartment
The slim, Portuguese-looking woman in a plum-coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept-back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex.
She was standing under a streetlight at a crossroads only 40 feet from where Madeleine was sleeping with her brother Sean and his twin sister Amelie.
Investigators are being urged to find her to see if she was in any way connected to a pockmarked prowler seen several times outside the apartment in the day leading up to the kidnap.
Details of the mystery woman have only just become known after a Sunday Express investigation into the baffling case was alerted by an elderly British woman who has lived in Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve for more than 30 years.
Speaking from her villa near the Ocean Club, the woman, who has asked not to be named, recalled: “On that night I went to the supermarket at the bottom of the road just before it closed at 8pm.
“As I drove past the entrance to the Ocean Club I saw a woman standing opposite Apartment 5A the McCanns were staying in.
“Even at that time of night the streets were deserted, so I was surprised to see someone there. I remember thinking it was unusual because it is just not the sort of place you would hang around.
“As I drove up to the junction she stepped around to the other side of the street lamp as though she didn’t want me to look at her. She was not carrying a bag or a mobile phone. I thought she might have been waiting for a lift but no car came along while I was there.
“I turned right and could see quite clearly she was looking at Apartment 5A.
“As I approached another junction a small, brown car, with just one English-looking man in it swung round and nearly hit mine.”
When she heard that Madeleine had vanished she asked a relative to inform the police about her sightings.
More than 30 people have so far phoned in about the artist’s impression shown on a Channel 4 documentary last Thursday of a scar-faced man seen loitering outside the McCanns’ apartment.
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The MP she contacted also made a point of raising a question on the case 17/3/2008 to the then-Home Secretary.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk (http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk)
Thanks Misty.
So back then, she had different details of clothing.
The slim, Portuguese-looking woman in a plum-coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept-back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex.
I still can't get my head round her not reporting it to the PJ. In 2007. Was she scared, or didn't like talking to PJ's.
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Casa Liliana is on a cul-de-sac, so that speeding car going the wrong way was magic.
And since Casa Liliana is 90m from the lamp post at the top of the street near 5A and block 6, Mrs Murat must have had razor sharp eyes, deployed whilst opening her gate and dodging a speeding car.
I dont think she said a speeding car, but a car going the wrong way
"As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates ...."
As you may have noticed Shining,
Unusually, driving in from the NW end of R. Dr Agostinho da Silva, there are a pair of fairly imposing white gate posts [no gates]. Most people on here are not aware of these.
Then there is a stretch of mosaic paved ?pavement of some length leading to the gates [the Murat gates we are all familiar with] of the Murat villa. This pavement has to be driven over to gain access to the Murats gates.
This is "pavement is as wide as the adjacent roadway and runs close to it. It is only seperated from R Dr A.de S. by a long narrow grassed area with a high mesh fencing like that around tennis courts and of a somewhat similar height.
THis mosaic paved entrance before the Murat gates is some considerable length measuring approx 39 m to those gates on GE. It runs in a SE direction from Rua do Ramalhete, which the main east to west thru route in PdL. It is approx 6 metres wide.
It is almost private but does carry on to what I think might be OC Laundry.. Please correct me if I am wrong on the Laundry, Shining.
So I wonder, just where was this car that was going the wrong way?
I agree with you about Mrs Murat, who was quite elderly, needing razor sharp eyes, but just maybe she had? We just dont know for certain. It seems a bit unlikely tho.
I cant post GE images. It would be so much clearer if a well-zoomed-in GE image of the birds eye view of that mosaic pathway/driveway were shown along with the street scene image of the two white gate posts (without gates) taken from Rua do Ramalhete. John does very good GE images.
Any chance please, John ?
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"As I approached another junction a small, brown car, with just one English-looking man in it swung round and nearly hit mine" Probably like this? (junc R do Ramalhete / R Dr Agosthino)
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Thanks Misty.
So back then, she had different details of clothing.
The slim, Portuguese-looking woman in a plum-coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept-back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex.
I still can't get my head round her not reporting it to the PJ. In 2007. Was she scared, or didn't like talking to PJ's.
I don't think she deemed her sighting relevant to the case when she made her statement on 15th May.
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"As I approached another junction a small, brown car, with just one English-looking man in it swung round and nearly hit mine" Probably like this? (junc R do Ramalhete / R Dr Agosthino)
Thanks Pegasus
Your image in post 1646 helps illustrate my long winded description in « Reply #1644 on: May 04, 2015, 09:35:30 PM.
The green arrow you show is Mrs Murats car travelling along Rua Agostinho da Silva having passed 5A about 100metres before. The car has to pass the Murat gates that we know [unfortunately off image] and then as you show swing round the White pillars to return in a parallel path in the opposite direction until reaching the Murat gates.
If you look carefully you will see a small white mark in the middle of the green swing round. That is one of the pillars . After turning thru the pillars and Mrs Murats car moves towards the Murat gates it is crossing a wide mosaic ?pavement.
Peagasus
As the car that nearly hit her was coming so fast, do you think that it might have come from the opposite direction to your arrow, in a south westerly direction along Rua do Ramalhete and badly cut the corner as it swung around ?
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I dont think she said a speeding car, but a car going the wrong way
"As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates ...."
As you may have noticed Shining,
Unusually, driving in from the NW end of R. Dr Agostinho da Silva, there are a pair of fairly imposing white gate posts [no gates]. Most people on here are not aware of these.
Then there is a stretch of mosaic paved ?pavement of some length leading to the gates [the Murat gates we are all familiar with] of the Murat villa. This pavement has to be driven over to gain access to the Murats gates.
This is "pavement is as wide as the adjacent roadway and runs close to it. It is only seperated from R Dr A.de S. by a long narrow grassed area with a high mesh fencing like that around tennis courts and of a somewhat similar height.
THis mosaic paved entrance before the Murat gates is some considerable length measuring approx 39 m to those gates on GE. It runs in a SE direction from Rua do Ramalhete, which the main east to west thru route in PdL. It is approx 6 metres wide.
It is almost private but does carry on to what I think might be OC Laundry.. Please correct me if I am wrong on the Laundry, Shining.
So I wonder, just where was this car that was going the wrong way?
I agree with you about Mrs Murat, who was quite elderly, needing razor sharp eyes, but just maybe she had? We just dont know for certain. It seems a bit unlikely tho.
I cant post GE images. It would be so much clearer if a well-zoomed-in GE image of the birds eye view of that mosaic pathway/driveway were shown along with the street scene image of the two white gate posts (without gates) taken from Rua do Ramalhete. John does very good GE images.
Any chance please, John ?
Please let me give up on speeding car. I'd need to read the entire thread to see if I got it right or wrong.
Where does the cul-de-sac link to? All the Palms apartments. Fuji Palms plus others.
No, the laundry for the OC is not down this road I think this bit comes from seeing a laundry vehicle down a back street, but the OC laundry is in the OC proper.
By the way, my driveway is only about the size of the Murat cul de sac. Not boastin nor nuffin.
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Yes that is also possible, that the brown car was driving west on R Ramalhete and turned left into R Agosthino.
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Madeleine: The missed clues at £1m villa Sunday Express
Sunday Express, 24 May 2009
EXCLUSIVE by James Murray and Ted Jeory
Sunday May 24, 2009
**snip
The Sunday Express has been conducting intensive inquiries in the resort town and asked scores of people if they saw anyone acting suspiciously.
One elderly British resident told us both she and a friend, a retired British woman detective, went to Portuguese police about a couple who rented the villa, which has its own swimming pool.
The resident told us: "I used to meet up with the retired detective to walk our dogs down by the seafront. Both of us became concerned about a couple aged about 30 who rented the villa.
"What struck us was that they drove a very tatty, British-registered small red saloon car. It was one those vehicles you would normally see on a gypsy camp, not going in and out of a very expensive villa.
"We only saw them coming and going in the car and not walking about, which is odd given the location of the villa. We both got the impression they were trying to keep a low profile."
Another source said that after Maddie disappeared, search teams combed the seafront, where luxury villas stand next to large areas of barren land.
Anglican priest Paul Luckman, owner and publisher of Portugal News, said: "The location and description of that villa mentioned by your source fits the one that a searcher told me about.
"The searcher told me the villa was empty and somehow they got inside some weeks after Madeleine disappeared.
"The search dog handler said the villa had a room with a kind of amateur studio with video equipment and cameras with children's toys and pictures of children on the wall.
"He felt it was something to do with paedophiles. He told the police and they seemed to know something about it, but we don't think they took it any further."
The Sunday Express took him to the villa and he confirmed that it fits the description and location of the one he was told about.
Although we know where it is, we are not naming the villa for legal reasons as we have been unable to locate the owner.
The British woman resident said: "I know the owner was contacted after we raised our concerns with the police.
"The person was angry because she said she did not know the people who rented it and was annoyed about being contacted by detectives.
"We heard nothing more about it. The day after Maddie disappeared the couple moved out and we didn't see them again.
"There was an older woman in a very expensive car who visited them during their stay."
The McCanns' private investigators have been conducting surveillance on several properties for some time. Retired detective inspector Dave Edgar returned from Portugal on Friday night and is pursuing a number of leads he is not prepared to discuss.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id238.html
There seems to have been a plethora of information coming in from an 'elderly British resident' on a variety of themes, although I don't recall coming across any of it in the files.
Odd comment here from Paul Luckman.
Who would have the authority to enter private property with a search dog? who later 'told the police'?
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She reported this to the press back in 2009 but she wanted to remain anonymous back then.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/100071/EXCLUSIVE-Who-was-the-woman-outside-Maddie-s-flat
EXCLUSIVE: Who was the woman outside Maddie's flat?
A WOMAN was seen acting suspiciously outside Kate and Gerry McCann’s apartment just an hour before their daughter Madeleine was abducted.
By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, May 10, 2009
MYSTERY The slim Portuguese looking woman was seen outside the McCann s apartment
The slim, Portuguese-looking woman in a plum-coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept-back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex.
She was standing under a streetlight at a crossroads only 40 feet from where Madeleine was sleeping with her brother Sean and his twin sister Amelie.
Investigators are being urged to find her to see if she was in any way connected to a pockmarked prowler seen several times outside the apartment in the day leading up to the kidnap.
Details of the mystery woman have only just become known after a Sunday Express investigation into the baffling case was alerted by an elderly British woman who has lived in Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve for more than 30 years.
Speaking from her villa near the Ocean Club, the woman, who has asked not to be named, recalled: “On that night I went to the supermarket at the bottom of the road just before it closed at 8pm.
“As I drove past the entrance to the Ocean Club I saw a woman standing opposite Apartment 5A the McCanns were staying in.
“Even at that time of night the streets were deserted, so I was surprised to see someone there. I remember thinking it was unusual because it is just not the sort of place you would hang around.
“As I drove up to the junction she stepped around to the other side of the street lamp as though she didn’t want me to look at her. She was not carrying a bag or a mobile phone. I thought she might have been waiting for a lift but no car came along while I was there.
“I turned right and could see quite clearly she was looking at Apartment 5A.
“As I approached another junction a small, brown car, with just one English-looking man in it swung round and nearly hit mine.”
When she heard that Madeleine had vanished she asked a relative to inform the police about her sightings.
More than 30 people have so far phoned in about the artist’s impression shown on a Channel 4 documentary last Thursday of a scar-faced man seen loitering outside the McCanns’ apartment.
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The MP she contacted also made a point of raising a question on the case 17/3/2008 to the then-Home Secretary.
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk
At least this variant does not contain impossibilities.
She is now sighting the woman as she drives up the hill from Baptista, goes past the Tapas reception, goes past block 6 car park entrance, and sees the woman close up by the street light. (She is taking the correct route, which is always a good thing.)
She travels east then north on Agostinho, then has an incident near the junction. She then heads down the cul-de-sac to her drive. (All of this is better as she does not need to be eagle eyed while dodging a car.)
Now it gets a bit more iffy. She says she asked a relative to inform the police. The obvious relative is Robert, who was working with the police in the early days. I doubt she asked Robert to pass this info on after he was made an arguido. Then she gave a statement on 15 May 2007, after he was made an arguido, and did not mention a sighting which would have weighed in his favour.
In this tale, we also have a woman at a lamppost who was possibly waiting for a car, but none was coming, except for the one Mrs Murat nearly had a collision with.
I don't know if this is the first media report on this incident, therefore I may be being cynical. Did this information really first circulate around the second anniversary of the disappearance, when a fresh Maddie angle would have been gold dust?
One which comes from a source who does not wish to be identified, yet sticks out like a sore thumb from the PJ files.
The only thing I have learned, or at least I think I can rely on, is that Baptista shut at 8, which is what I thought. Mind you, if Mrs Murat first came up with this tale two years on, then I'm relying on her recollection of what Baptista's hours were, rather than what they actually were.
@Sadie. The cul-de-sac is cobbled, but it is a street. The cobbles are used to slow traffic down. Rua Direita (etc.) is surfaced with them, so you can see them clearly in Google street view.
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... I'm relying on her recollection of what Baptista's hours were, rather than what they actually were....
Supermarket webpage with opening hours, captured on 02 May 2007
http://web.archive.org/web/20070502014641/http://supermercado-baptista.com/
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I dont think she said a speeding car, but a car going the wrong way
"As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates ...."
As you may have noticed Shining,
Unusually, driving in from the NW end of R. Dr Agostinho da Silva, there are a pair of fairly imposing white gate posts [no gates]. Most people on here are not aware of these.
Then there is a stretch of mosaic paved ?pavement of some length leading to the gates [the Murat gates we are all familiar with] of the Murat villa. This pavement has to be driven over to gain access to the Murats gates.
This is "pavement is as wide as the adjacent roadway and runs close to it. It is only seperated from R Dr A.de S. by a long narrow grassed area with a high mesh fencing like that around tennis courts and of a somewhat similar height.
THis mosaic paved entrance before the Murat gates is some considerable length measuring approx 39 m to those gates on GE. It runs in a SE direction from Rua do Ramalhete, which the main east to west thru route in PdL. It is approx 6 metres wide.
It is almost private but does carry on to what I think might be OC Laundry.. Please correct me if I am wrong on the Laundry, Shining.
So I wonder, just where was this car that was going the wrong way?
I agree with you about Mrs Murat, who was quite elderly, needing razor sharp eyes, but just maybe she had? We just dont know for certain. It seems a bit unlikely tho.
I cant post GE images. It would be so much clearer if a well-zoomed-in GE image of the birds eye view of that mosaic pathway/driveway were shown along with the street scene image of the two white gate posts (without gates) taken from Rua do Ramalhete. John does very good GE images.
Any chance please, John ?
(http://i.imgur.com/NpgPPE8.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/QL2iSsX.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/nIZIwsl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/EgwlTZk.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/gfS8o6G.jpg?1)
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Supermarket webpage with opening hours, captured on 02 May 2007
http://web.archive.org/web/20070502014641/http://supermercado-baptista.com/
Thank you. One more loose end tied up!
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(http://i.imgur.com/NpgPPE8.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/QL2iSsX.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/nIZIwsl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/EgwlTZk.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/gfS8o6G.jpg?1)
Thanks for the images, John.
I can see where she may have almost collided with a vehicle exiting the car park behind the apartments as it is in effect a shared entrance with the paved Murat drive branching off, but I don't see why she has said the vehicle was going the wrong way.
It would have to have been in the Murat drive?? is that possible?
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(http://i.imgur.com/NpgPPE8.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/QL2iSsX.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/nIZIwsl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/EgwlTZk.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/gfS8o6G.jpg?1)
Thank you John. You have gone to a lot of trouble there. I appreciate that.
I hope that people can now understand my long description
Unfortunately, I am not able to come in much to discuss things atm .... as we, my little family, have suffereed as many major problems in our life during just the past 4-5 months as most people encounter in 10 + years. All very worrying, tiring and time consuming.
A number of problems are hopefully going to improve but others are on going, so goodness knows when some normality will come back and I can post in a less sporadic manner.
PS I wonder if I am remembering the very high "tennis Court" Mesh properly? It seems lower than I remember it.
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JM has to swing out to start that 360 turn. Someone comes round the corner from R Ramalhete much too fast, almost collides. Nothing unusual there. Drivers going round corners too fast happens every day. So the brown car is of little interest IMO (even if it was the car which picked up the woman).
More interesting is the woman who is standing on the corner, looking straight at 5A, at about 8pm. Here are some possibilities:
1. She is waiting for a lift. Possibly works at the same supermarket that JM went to (Do any shifts there finish at 8pm? Yes certainly. That is a no-brainer!). Or works in tapas restaurant or laundry which is same location as tapas (Do any shifts there finish at 8pm? I don't know). She walks up to corner because that's easier for friend/relative who gives her lift home. When someone is standing waiting for a lift obviously they look at whatever buildings are nearby. So this is the most likely, and completely innocuous explanation. (Other possibilities to follow ...)
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Jeremy Wilkins saw Jane Tanner there between 8.15 and 8.30. also in purple.
Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
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JT was IMO wearing a dark blue fleece, and cropped dark trousers.
The woman seen by JM was wearing a plum-coloured jacket and white skirt.
The woman seen by JW was wearing something purple.
Maybe JW saw the same woman that JM saw? And he mistakenly thought it was JT ???
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JT was IMO wearing a dark blue fleece, and cropped dark trousers.
The woman seen by JM was wearing a plum-coloured jacket and white skirt.
The woman seen by JW was wearing something purple.
Maybe JW saw the same woman that JM saw? And he mistakenly thought it was JT ???
(corrected)
She must have looked similar to Jane Tanner because JW did know her as a member of the group. Not many men know the difference between plum and purple (not sure I would at a glance). Jane could have changed later I suppose, if it was her. She was around alone that evening - Rob stayed behind with their child. At 8.30pm she texted her friend Charlotte Gorrod. I think Clarence Mitchell said none of them had phones or watches with them at dinner.
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She must have looked similar to Jane Tanner because JW did know her as a member of the group. Not many men know the difference between plum and purple (not sure I would at a glance). Jane could have changed later I suppose, if it was her. She was around alone that evening - Rob stayed behind with their child. At 8.30pm she texted her friend Charlotte Gorrod. I think Clarence Mitchell said none of them had phones or watches with them at dinner.
I don't really have enough of an opinion on this to have looked into it thoroughly, so correct me if I've got it wrong ... I don't think it is so much the shades of purple as the location.
JM saw her woman standing at the corner beside a lampost which she moved behind as the car approached ... JW saw his woman standing in the vicinity of the apartments ~ he thought she might have been waiting for someone coming out.
Two different women?
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JT was IMO wearing a dark blue fleece, and cropped dark trousers.
The woman seen by JM was wearing a plum-coloured jacket and white skirt.
The woman seen by JW was wearing something purple.
Maybe JW saw the same woman that JM saw? And he mistakenly thought it was JT ???
JW said she was wearing purple and so did Jenny Murat so It is pretty crystal clear who it was in a quiet spot. Russell must be colour blind.
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IMO JT was not wearing anything that could be described as purple.
The other woman was wearing something plum-coloured that is easily described as purple.
IMO it is possible that JW did not see JT, but saw the other woman (the same woman which Mrs M saw).
Please note that both women had long swept back dark hair.
JW says he saw the women on the "street" (need to check this is the original word), level with the T9 group's apartments. So at just after 8pm a woman in plum/purple is standing on the pavement on the corner at the lamppost. And some minutes later a woman in plum/purple has crossed the road and is standing on the pavement level with block 5 carpark. I will try to make a map.
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You wouldn't make a good detective. Plum and purple are both seen here.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/JS.jpg)
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I wouldn't call Jane Tanner either "slight" or "slim"
&%+((£
It might have been Rachel Oldfield, slight bodied, long dark hair and definitely more Portuguese looking than Jane Tanner.
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You wouldn't make a good detective. Plum and purple are both seen here.
That photo was not taken on the relevant evening.
BTW what is your expert answer to this question please:
When JW saw a woman in purple clothing whom he thought was JT, what was the distance in metres between JW and the woman?
ETA Based on the files I estimate at least 30 metres maybe more.
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That photo was not taken on the relevant evening.
BTW what is your expert answer to this question please:
When JW saw a woman in purple clothing whom he thought was JT, what was the distance in metres between JW and the woman?
ETA Based on the files I estimate at least 30 metres maybe more.
Yes but it was not dark at that time and Jane left the apartment before Russell. She used her mobile to text.
The raw telecom data provided to OP TASK shows that the mobile phone attributed to Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007 and again at 09:04:46 hrs on 4th May 2007. Each contact was an 'SMS'. Enquiries are underway to subscribe the '1884’ number.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
4078 “Okay and the last number then, is 07949 731844”?
Reply “Yeah this is the one I think it would be, this is erm, this is Charlotte, my friend in Exeter who was actually out in Portugal with us when we were there, but I think I rang her, she went home on the Saturday and she hadn’t taken her mobile out with her, cos I’d (inaudible) texted her, that day we were supposed to go, it was her husband’s birthday, I must have, I’ve still got the text on here that she, we were supposed to go to their apartment for a barbecue at lunch time, so I text her in the morning and said, (inaudible) text (inaudible), there you go, I text her in the morning and said that, so you see what time that is and but she didn’t answer so, cos she hadn’t got her mobile phone”.
4078 “No”.
Reply “With her, so I rang her when she was home, that’s (inaudible) I want to talk to her then”.
4078 “But we’ve got that record that you texted her, I think you actually texted her the evening before as well”.
Reply “That was to say do we need to erm bring, I think she was saying, come up for the afternoon, I think it was something along the lines of, do we need to bring food or something along those lines cos we were going for, for lunch”.
4078 “Yes”.
Reply “Cos it was Jim’s birthday”.
4078 “Okay. That’s the end of the telephone questions”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/James_Gorrod.htm
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Yes but it was not dark at that time and Jane left the apartment before Russell. She used her mobile to text.
The raw telecom data provided to OP TASK shows that the mobile phone attributed to Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007 and again at 09:04:46 hrs on 4th May 2007. Each contact was an 'SMS'. Enquiries are underway to subscribe the '1884’ number.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
4078 “Okay and the last number then, is 07949 731844”?
Reply “Yeah this is the one I think it would be, this is erm, this is Charlotte, my friend in Exeter who was actually out in Portugal with us when we were there, but I think I rang her, she went home on the Saturday and she hadn’t taken her mobile out with her, cos I’d (inaudible) texted her, that day we were supposed to go, it was her husband’s birthday, I must have, I’ve still got the text on here that she, we were supposed to go to their apartment for a barbecue at lunch time, so I text her in the morning and said, (inaudible) text (inaudible), there you go, I text her in the morning and said that, so you see what time that is and but she didn’t answer so, cos she hadn’t got her mobile phone”.
4078 “No”.
Reply “With her, so I rang her when she was home, that’s (inaudible) I want to talk to her then”.
4078 “But we’ve got that record that you texted her, I think you actually texted her the evening before as well”.
Reply “That was to say do we need to erm bring, I think she was saying, come up for the afternoon, I think it was something along the lines of, do we need to bring food or something along those lines cos we were going for, for lunch”.
4078 “Yes”.
Reply “Cos it was Jim’s birthday”.
4078 “Okay. That’s the end of the telephone questions”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/James_Gorrod.htm
It would appear that this was the first time the Gorrods are mentioned, when the phone calls are questioned, but the PJ were interested in the relationship in 2007, the Gorrod's hire car was one of those screened by Eddie;
RUSSELL O'BRIEN
To the coordinator of the criminal investigation.
In the context of the investigation, we have collected information concerning a vehicle used by RUSSELL O'BRIEN, friend and member of the group who spent their holiday with the McCann family in the Algarve . At the time of the request for vehicles considered important to the procedures that follow, we were not aware of the identification details of this vehicle. Meantime, our investigation has led us to establish that it may be a vehicle of the "Opel" range, a "Corsa" model, registration....AG - 62. At the present time, we do not have a mandate to search for and seize the vehicle to allow us to add the vehicle to the planned inspections. As a consequence, we request such a legal mandate in order to be able to realize the planned inspections.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
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You wouldn't make a good detective. Plum and purple are both seen here.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/JS.jpg)
I don't see plum and purple in that photo...
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then. Oh I’m sidetracking a bit, but that’s why I knew one of the pictures in the paper wasn’t from the holiday, because I hadn’t got jeans on the holiday with me, so. (JT rog)
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I wouldn't call Jane Tanner either "slight" or "slim"
&%+((£
It might have been Rachel Oldfield, slight bodied, long dark hair and definitely more Portuguese looking than Jane Tanner.
I wouldn't call her slight either...
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I don't see plum and purple in that photo...
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then. Oh I’m sidetracking a bit, but that’s why I knew one of the pictures in the paper wasn’t from the holiday, because I hadn’t got jeans on the holiday with me, so. (JT rog)
What colours would you call her top and the jumper around her waist ?
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What colours would you call her top and the jumper around her waist ?
Deep dusty pink and burgundy-ish. But people describe colours differently.
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Indeed they do - not everyone is a walking colour chart for Homes & Gardens. @)(++(*
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So when he saw the lady in purple, where was JW standing, and where was the woman standing?
I will post my opinion soon.
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So when he saw the lady in purple, where was JW standing, and where was the woman standing?
I will post my opinion soon.
Excerpts:-
Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry'
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner. At the next crossing, I turned right and continued on down the hill. At this point,
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Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
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Indeed they do - not everyone is a walking colour chart for Homes & Gardens. @)(++(*
RAL numbers and a spectrophotometer might be better!
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@ Anna. thanks yes that is what I was working from until I realised that the original rog of Mr W, which was in english, is not in the published files. The most original document we have is the PJ portuguese translation, which is in the files. The english we read tertiary internet translation, not the original, so I provide for the first time an accurate translation in this post.
I went back to the most original document of this rog that we have, the portuguese translation, which says:
"... julgo tê-la visto quando primeiro iniciei o meu passeio. Ela estava parada na rua em frente do apartamento de um dos elementos do grupo, quando eu passei para baixo a saída do meu apartamento. Não sei se era o seu proprio apartamento ou não. Recordo-me que usava um vestuário de cor purpura"
and my accurate translation is
"... I think I saw her when I first began my walk. She was standing in the street in front of the apartment of one of the group members, as I went down to the exit of my apartment. I do not know if it was her own apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing a purple colored clothing"
Therefore at the moment Mr W saw this woman, IMO he was just leaving his apartment, and looking out from the walkway on the 4th floor of block 4, and saw a woman wearing something purple, standing in the street Rua Dr Agosthina Da Silva, and level with block 5.
So when he sees this woman on the street, he is on the 4th floor, at a great distance, 30 metres at least, very probably more. IMO he saw the same woman that Mrs M saw, not JT.
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@ Anna. thanks yes that is what I was working from until I realised that the original rog of Mr W, which was in english, is not in the published files. The most original document we have is the PJ portuguese translation, which is in the files. The english we read is a tertiary internet translation, not the original.
So I went back to the most original document of this rog that we have, the portuguese translation, which says:
"... julgo tê-la visto quando primeiro iniciei o meu passeio. Ela estava parada na rua em frente do apartamento de um dos elementos do grupo, quando eu passei para baixo a saída do meu apartamento. Não sei se era o seu proprio apartamento ou não. Recordo-me que usava um vestuário de cor purpura"
"... I think I saw her when I first began my walk. She was standing in the street in front of the apartment of one of the group members, as I went down to the exit of my apartment. I do not know if it was her own apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing a purple colored clothing"
Therefore at the moment Mr W saw this woman, IMO he was just leaving his apartment, and looking out from the walkway on the 4th floor of block 4, and saw a woman wearing something purple, standing in the street Rua Dr Agosthina Da Silva, and level with block 5.
So when he sees this woman on the street, he is on the 4th floor, at a great distance, 30 metres at least, very probably more. IMO he saw the same woman that Mrs M saw, not JT.
It was JT. Both JW and JM saw the same women in purple at the same location around the same time. And we know Jane left the apartment before Russell at around 8:30 and sent a text. So Jane was outside and close to the apartment at the time two witnesses saw her. So I wonder who it could be &%+((£ Another woman? I don't think so!
(http://gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/jane.jpg)
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It was JT. Both JW and JM saw the same women in purple at the same location around the same time. And we know Jane left the apartment before Russell at around 8:30 and sent a text. So Jane was outside and close to the apartment at the time two witnesses saw her. So I wonder who it could be &%+((£ Another woman? I don't think so!
So now you are suggesting that JT was the woman standing on the SE corner of the T junction under the streetlight ? Wearing a white skirt? What on earth would she be doing there? It is illogical. Obviously the woman seen by Mrs M is not JT, JiMAO.
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So now you are suggesting that JT was the woman standing on the SE corner of the T junction under the streetlight ? Wearing a white skirt? What on earth would she be doing there? It is illogical. Obviously the woman seen by Mrs M is not JT, JiMAO.
She was most likely typing and sending that text before going to the tapas bar.
Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007 and again at 09:04:46 hrs on 4th May 2007. Each contact was an 'SMS'.
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She was most likely typing and sending that text before going to the tapas bar.
Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007 and again at 09:04:46 hrs on 4th May 2007. Each contact was an 'SMS'.
Of course Jenny Murat never mentioned this woman to the investigators, despite having made a statement. Jeremy Wilkins doesn't mention seeing her until his rogatory statement, although he made two statements before that one.
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@ Anna. thanks yes that is what I was working from until I realised that the original rog of Mr W, which was in english, is not in the published files. The most original document we have is the PJ portuguese translation, which is in the files. The english we read tertiary internet translation, not the original, so I provide for the first time an accurate translation in this post.
I went back to the most original document of this rog that we have, the portuguese translation, which says:
"... julgo tê-la visto quando primeiro iniciei o meu passeio. Ela estava parada na rua em frente do apartamento de um dos elementos do grupo, quando eu passei para baixo a saída do meu apartamento. Não sei se era o seu proprio apartamento ou não. Recordo-me que usava um vestuário de cor purpura"
and my accurate translation is
"... I think I saw her when I first began my walk. She was standing in the street in front of the apartment of one of the group members, as I went down to the exit of my apartment. I do not know if it was her own apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing a purple colored clothing"
Therefore at the moment Mr W saw this woman, IMO he was just leaving his apartment, and looking out from the walkway on the 4th floor of block 4, and saw a woman wearing something purple, standing in the street Rua Dr Agosthina Da Silva, and level with block 5.
So when he sees this woman on the street, he is on the 4th floor, at a great distance, 30 metres at least, very probably more. IMO he saw the same woman that Mrs M saw, not JT.
Interesting.
JM sees a woman in a purple top at the top of the street.
If JM reported her sighting to the PJ it would have given them the opportunity to determine who the woman she saw was.
JW sees a woman in a purple top outside the apartments in block A.
If JW reported his sighting it would also have given the opportunity for a reconstitution of the event with JT wearing the same clothing worn on the 3rd.
Then one wonders how much significance the investigators would have given to that aspect of the inquiry as there doesn't seem to have been due diligence in ascertaining the business of others seen by witnesses in the vicinity of the McCann accommodation.