UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: John on September 09, 2012, 07:40:38 PM
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Message carved in wood at White House Farm - "I hate this place"
Does anyone have any particular views on this or who could have done it?
(http://i.imgur.com/HiY6A.jpg)
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That's really sad and shows that the house held some bad memories for someone. 8(8-))
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Message carved in wood at White House Farm - "I hate this place"
Does anyone have any particular views on this or who could have done it?
(http://i.imgur.com/HiY6A.jpg)
In my humble opinion it would appear to be the creative work of a child but one wonders how old this particular piece of work was? It has been suggested in the other place that it was Sheila who did it in support of their theory that she was out of control. Could it have been scarved on a door by Jeremy that very morning in order to back up his wild aspersions concerning his sister?
I would suggest his familiarity with upper case script could engender him to such work.
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An interesting point Mr K and worth pursuing. 8@??)(
We have got Jeremy's handwriting on file on the forum so give me twenty minutes or so and I will do a analysis of the letters to see if they have anything in common.
The first significant thing you notice is that the first letter, a capital i is made as an ӏ and not an I.
The second thing in common is that the right leg on the letter A is longer than the left one, another common Jeremy Bamber trait.
(http://i.imgur.com/C74Mi.jpg)
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Look at the angular letter "L"
Going by the letter "L" with the rounded base, in Bamber's hand drawn plan (xdsTv.jpg), I would think it more likely to be the work of Sheila, perhaps in a fit of pique before she left home in her younger days..., that is if it was concealed from her parents' gaze in the meantime.
Then again, Mr Justice K as you say, it could have been part of the Bamber's master plan that morning to discredit Sheila.
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The judge accepted that it was more than likely Sheila wrote that.
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Look at the angular letter "L"
Going by the letter "L" with the rounded base, in Bamber's hand drawn plan (xdsTv.jpg), I would think it more likely to be the work of Sheila, perhaps in a fit of pique before she left home in her younger days..., that is if it was concealed from her parents' gaze in the meantime.
Then again, Mr Justice K as you say, it could have been part of the Bamber's master plan that morning to discredit Sheila.
Totally agree, his normal letter L is very much rounded like a non capital but then again he would be trying to disguise his writing and make it look as if someone else did it. Just a thought. >@@(*&)
Something I never noticed on the plan he drew up that morning Myster, he refers to Nicholas and Daniel as "twin boy" and not his nephew?
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He also puts sheilas height, John. he doesnt mention anyone elses, just hers.
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Look at the angular letter "L"
Going by the letter "L" with the rounded base, in Bamber's hand drawn plan (xdsTv.jpg), I would think it more likely to be the work of Sheila, perhaps in a fit of pique before she left home in her younger days..., that is if it was concealed from her parents' gaze in the meantime.
Then again, Mr Justice K as you say, it could have been part of the Bamber's master plan that morning to discredit Sheila.
Totally agree, his normal letter L is very much rounded like a non capital but then again he would be trying to disguise his writing and make it look as if someone else did it. Just a thought. >@@(*&)
Something I never noticed on the plan he drew up that morning Myster, he refers to Nicholas and Daniel as "twin boy" and not his nephew?
..... as if he was trying to distance himself from his family and what he had done that morning.
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..... as if he was trying to distance himself from his family and what he had done that morning.
It does seem very cold and impersonal doesn't it.
He also puts sheilas height, John. he doesnt mention anyone elses, just hers.
I never noticed that before I must admit.
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You learn something new everyday!
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A rare post from me. The capital letter style is quite relevant and very telling to me. If we take a look at this one, a key feature is that the E tends to slant upward - and that favours JB having written this, as does the l. I would like to see Sheila's writing too, does any one have any examples? My view is that JB wrote this on the wall, the 'coded suicide note' (the G gives it away) and the 'suicide note' in the bible (also in capital letters).
Did Sheila write in capital letters? Or did Jeremy write all these things to implicate Sheila?
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All that private education and Bamber couldn't even spell rifle!
If Sheila did write that message on the wall it's irrelevant as it must be very old. Sheila didn't live at WHF and she was there on hols. with her adored boys. She wasn't forced to be there and as witnessed by many people Sheila was happy as a lark out walking with her boys!
I tend to think the message could be a Bamber ruse too .... the boy who always writes in capital letters!
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He does yes, I had a couple of letters from him and it was always capitals, although I haven't contacted him since I joined here. I can trust myself not to ask-why did you do it? Why did you kill the babies? What did they do? They're innocent like your parents and your gorgeous sister.
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Message written in crayon on bedroom wall - "I hate this place"
Does anyone have any particular views on this or who could have written it?
(http://i.imgur.com/HiY6A.jpg)
In my humble opinion it would appear to be the creative work of a child but one wonders how old this particular piece of graffiti is? It has been suggested in the other place that it was Sheila who did it in support of their theory that she was out of control. Could it have been scribbled on the wall by Jeremy that very morning in order to back up his wild aspersions concerning his sister?
I would suggest his familiarity with upper case script could engender him to such a scribble.
I would have thought if June or Ralph had seen this they would have been horrified, and removed or covered it. So it's possible that it was very recent.
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John I happen to be reading the 2002 Appeal Court decision at the mo and they refer to this matter. The words "I hate this place " were actually a carving into wood and not written in crayon!
Ref: Point no. 392 of AC statement.
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At little more info.; the carving was made on the inside of the cupboard in the bedroom the twins were murdered in by Bamber. The court accepted there was absolutely no way to establish the author (carver) nor a time line for the carving. It's thought it probably was Sheila many years before when WHF was her home.
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John I happen to be reading the 2002 Appeal Court decision at the mo and they refer to this matter. The words "I hate this place " were actually a carving into wood and not written in crayon!
Ref: Point no. 392 of AC statement.
Thanks Tim, I should have checked that out rather than going by something I had read elsewhere. I will change the title accordingly. It was the word 'scrawled' used in the Mail Online article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-144570/Court-examines-mental-state-Bambers-sister.html) which threw me.
It looks like it must have been done some time before the murders.
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At little more info.; the carving was made on the inside of the cupboard in the bedroom the twins were murdered in by Bamber. The court accepted there was absolutely no way to establish the author (carver) nor a time line for the carving. It's thought it probably was Sheila many years before when WHF was her home.
Jeremy is bound to know who wrote it unless it pre-dated the Bambers occupancy of the farmhouse.
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John I happen to be reading the 2002 Appeal Court decision at the mo and they refer to this matter. The words "I hate this place " were actually a carving into wood and not written in crayon!
Ref: Point no. 392 of AC statement.
Thanks Tim, I should have checked that out rather than going by something I had read elsewhere. I will change the title accordingly. It was the word 'scrawled' used in the Mail Online article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-144570/Court-examines-mental-state-Bambers-sister.html) which threw me.
It looks like it must have been done some time before the murders.
It's very much the sort of thing an angry child (or teenager) would do. One of mine scratched her sister's name on the bath once, to get her into trouble, but she spelt it wrongly so we all knew who'd really done it!
I'm suprised June left that message there, though (if she ever saw it.)
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I don't think we will ever find out who wrote the message it's just another mystery surrounding the case and not important in getting to the truth of what happened
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I don't think we will ever find out who wrote the message it's just another mystery surrounding the case and not important in getting to the truth of what happened
Dr. Ferguson said the carving was typical of Sheila who was very immature in many ways in his opinion.
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I don't think we will ever find out who wrote the message it's just another mystery surrounding the case and not important in getting to the truth of what happened
I don't agree that it was Sheila who gouged the message on the cupboard door in the twins bedroom. We don't know when this was done and even if it pre-dated the Bamber family moving into the house. Jeremy is silent on this issue and I for one am suspicious about this. Could it be that it was he who was responsible but as with so many other matters cannot bring himself to admit it? Forgot to add that I think a meeting with Jeremy would be a good thing and suggest that a list of questions is drafted so that they can be put to him. If he is in fact innocent he will want to avail of every possible opportunity to clear his name I would think.
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A ton of possibilities with this, isn't there?
It could even have already been gouged in the door when it came to WHF if they bought it second hand. I don't think an answer will ever come. Although the use of capital letters is interesting.
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A ton of possibilities with this, isn't there?
It could even have already been gouged in the door when it came to WHF if they bought it second hand. I don't think an answer will ever come. Although the use of capital letters is interesting.
I had assumed it was a built in cupboard of some sort rather than a free standing one, at least the only existing photo #101 seems to imply is.
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A ton of possibilities with this, isn't there?
It could even have already been gouged in the door when it came to WHF if they bought it second hand. I don't think an answer will ever come. Although the use of capital letters is interesting.
I had assumed it was a built in cupboard of some sort rather than a free standing one, at least the only existing photo #101 seems to imply is.
Jeremy Bamber's parents were living at Whitehouse Farm by 1957 when Sheila was adopted, and the thought that a member of another family who lived there before them would have also hated living there stretches the imagination a bit. If June or Nevill had seen the scrawl on the cupboard, built-in or not, it would have been removed or painted over as soon as poss. IMHO
And if Sheila did it she may well have covered it up by a drawing or painting on paper taped to the door (as shown by the remnants of whitish marks framed around the words) to prevent either parent seeing it.
Or if it was an act of defiance she could have left it there deliberately, so that her mother would see it.
[When Jeremy Bamber was awaiting trial, Colin Caffell visited the farm with Ann Eaton. As he was sat on "Bambs" old bed in the twins' room (what was formerly Sheila's bedroom) Ann came in and asked if he'd seen the words scratched (not 'carved') into what looked like new paint on the wardrobe door. He recalled seeing them sometime before in the last year or so, and seemed to think that Sheila had written them out of frustration on an earlier visit]
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A ton of possibilities with this, isn't there?
It could even have already been gouged in the door when it came to WHF if they bought it second hand. I don't think an answer will ever come. Although the use of capital letters is interesting.
I had assumed it was a built in cupboard of some sort rather than a free standing one, at least the only existing photo #101 seems to imply is.
Jeremy Bamber's parents were living at Whitehouse Farm by 1957 when Sheila was adopted, and the thought that a member of another family who lived there before them would have also hated living there stretches the imagination a bit. If June or Nevill had seen the scrawl on the cupboard, built-in or not, it would have been removed or painted over as soon as poss. IMHO
And if Sheila did it she may well have covered it up by a drawing or painting on paper taped to the door (as shown by the remnants of whitish marks framed around the words) to prevent either parent seeing it.
Or if it was an act of defiance she could have left it there deliberately, so that her mother would see it.
[When Jeremy Bamber was awaiting trial, Colin Caffell visited the farm with Ann Eaton. As he was sat on "Bambs" old bed in the twins' room (what was formerly Sheila's bedroom) Ann came in and asked if he'd seen the words scratched (not 'carved') into what looked like new paint on the wardrobe door. He recalled seeing them sometime before in the last year or so, and seemed to think that Sheila had written them out of frustration on an earlier visit]
You are probably spot on Myster but I read somewhere that the previous tenant of white house farm committed suicide?
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A ton of possibilities with this, isn't there?
It could even have already been gouged in the door when it came to WHF if they bought it second hand. I don't think an answer will ever come. Although the use of capital letters is interesting.
I had assumed it was a built in cupboard of some sort rather than a free standing one, at least the only existing photo #101 seems to imply is.
Jeremy Bamber's parents were living at Whitehouse Farm by 1957 when Sheila was adopted, and the thought that a member of another family who lived there before them would have also hated living there stretches the imagination a bit. If June or Nevill had seen the scrawl on the cupboard, built-in or not, it would have been removed or painted over as soon as poss. IMHO
And if Sheila did it she may well have covered it up by a drawing or painting on paper taped to the door (as shown by the remnants of whitish marks framed around the words) to prevent either parent seeing it.
Or if it was an act of defiance she could have left it there deliberately, so that her mother would see it.
[When Jeremy Bamber was awaiting trial, Colin Caffell visited the farm with Ann Eaton. As he was sat on "Bambs" old bed in the twins' room (what was formerly Sheila's bedroom) Ann came in and asked if he'd seen the words scratched (not 'carved') into what looked like new paint on the wardrobe door. He recalled seeing them sometime before in the last year or so, and seemed to think that Sheila had written them out of frustration on an earlier visit]
You are probably spot on Myster but I read somewhere that the previous tenant of white house farm committed suicide?
I read that too Milly..., but I can't believe the Bambers had lived there for at least 28 years and not done something about removing it if they had seen it.
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Totally agree, his normal letter L is very much rounded like a non capital but then again he would be trying to disguise his writing and make it look as if someone else did it. Just a thought. >@@(*&)
Something I never noticed on the plan he drew up that morning Myster, he refers to Nicholas and Daniel as "twin boy" and not his nephew?
..... as if he was trying to distance himself from his family and what he had done that morning.
‘Twin boy’ is impersonal
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It does seem very cold and impersonal doesn't it.
(https://i.imgur.com/tohoCxV.jpg)
I never noticed that before I must admit.
What was the explanation of 5'8'' beside Sheilas name?
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What was the explanation of 5'8'' beside Sheilas name?
Height?
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Height?
Yes I realise that,but its a plan from JB,why was just her height pointed out,must have been a reason,or is the reason beyond reason itself.
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Yes I realise that,but its a plan from JB,why was just her height pointed out,must have been a reason,or is the reason beyond reason itself.
The TFU might have asked him to give them an idea of Sheila's height to distinguish her from June who, if still alive, could have been wandering around and mistaken for her should any shooting take place.
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Poor Crispy is nameless
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Why’s he put ‘full magazine’ and the shooter at the top of his list?
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Why’s he put ‘full magazine’ and the shooter at the top of his list?
Because that's what he said he left out (and "Sheila must have seen it as a sign").
(https://i.imgur.com/Bh3ifTj.jpg)
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Because that's what he said he left out (and "Sheila must have seen it as a sign").
(https://i.imgur.com/Bh3ifTj.jpg)
SC lived at WHF for some 16 years. Thereafter she was a regular visitor. She would know where the guns/ammo were kept.
JB said he left the rifle by the settle in the scullery.
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It looks like an inventory for a game of cluedo.
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SC lived at WHF for some 16 years. Thereafter she was a regular visitor. She would know where the guns/ammo were kept.
JB said he left the rifle by the settle in the scullery.
Yes, here...
(https://i.imgur.com/mQt5ngC.jpg)
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Yes, here...
(https://i.imgur.com/mQt5ngC.jpg)
Ooooo better than Mike D from IA, thanks. Yes but the point I was making is that JB saying he left the rifle by the settle is often taken by others as 'staging' when in fact SC going about her normal business would not have had a need to venture into that part of the house at that time of the night. Bearing in mind PB was told by June that SC was off to bed.
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Ooooo better than Mike D from IA, thanks. Yes but the point I was making is that JB saying he left the rifle by the settle is often taken by others as 'staging' when in fact SC going about her normal business would not have had a need to venture into that part of the house at that time of the night. Bearing in mind PB was told by June that SC was off to bed.
Tempus Fugit... I did those three years ago.
Precisely! She didn't venture into the scullery because her stained underwear was already in a bucket in the kitchen, so no need to dirty her feet on its cold, stone-flagged floor. She was upstairs sending them home in her bed before Bamber rudely interrupted and delivered her to another world.