Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Alfred R Jones on May 29, 2015, 01:40:07 PM
Title: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 29, 2015, 01:40:07 PM
According to some the parents of a missing child don't matter, only the missing child him or herself - what is meant by "don't matter" though? That we should have no consideration for them? That they should not be considered victims of loss? What about the other members of the missing child's family - do they "not matter" either? And if the parents "don't matter" why is so much time spent criticising them?
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Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: John on May 29, 2015, 02:27:16 PM
According to some the parents of a missing child don't matter, only the missing child him or herself - what is meant by "don't matter" though? That we should have no consideration for them? That they should not be considered victims of loss? What about the other members of the missing child's family - do they "not matter" either?
And if the parents "don't matter" why is so much time spent criticising them?
An interesting question Alfred. I suppose it could always be argued if the parent or parents of any missing child had a hand in their disappearance then that is a somewhat different proposition to being completely innocent.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on May 29, 2015, 03:19:53 PM
WHOEVER may be involved in someone's disappearance doesn't mean that the primary victim should be assumed to be dead and unworthy of being found, nor that other people close to the victim (extended family and friends) aren't suffering as well in the absence of a conclusion, surely?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 29, 2015, 03:31:23 PM
An interesting question Alfred. I suppose it could always be argued if the parent or parents of any missing child had a hand in their disappearance then that is a somewhat different proposition to being completely innocent.
The McCanns have a legal right to be treated as innocent
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on May 29, 2015, 03:53:47 PM
Indeed, but the court of public opinion is not bound by that convention and can come to any conclusion it likes.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 29, 2015, 03:58:45 PM
Indeed, but the court of public opinion is not bound by that convention and can come to any conclusion it likes.
Should we have any consideration for the family of a missing child, even if we believe that their foolish actions were partly responsible for the child's fate?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 29, 2015, 04:12:36 PM
I don't know whether the McCann parents are innocent or guilty of anything.
Therefore ...
since I define a zero on the empathy scale, I don't give a toss.
If the trail leads onward to finding Madeleine, so be it.
That is the most important issue ~ finding Madeleine ~ and it is something that I think the demonisation of her parents was designed to prevent.
One only has to think of the sneering reaction of some to every sighting of a child who resembled Madeleine because they preferred the fiction of her death to the possibility she is alive and findable.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2015, 08:27:12 AM
That is the most important issue ~ finding Madeleine ~ and it is something that I think the demonisation of her parents was designed to prevent.
One only has to think of the sneering reaction of some to every sighting of a child who resembled Madeleine because they preferred the fiction of her death to the possibility she is alive and findable.
Are you saying that some people didn't want Madeleine to be found and 'designed' a strategy aimed at achieving that goal? Who and why?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 30, 2015, 08:29:16 AM
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 30, 2015, 10:49:02 AM
Should we have any consideration for the family of a missing child, even if we believe that their foolish actions were partly responsible for the child's fate?
I suppose so, but, the parents have caused many people, who suspect they are not being entirely honest about what happened that night, to dislike them due to the fact that these people are labelled as trolls and [ censored word ]s.
They vilify anyone who does not subcome to their agenda. Bought about by arrogance, and self importance gained through playing a victim. And don't forget Kate was very vocal about her 'suffering' and lack of sex life due to her daughters absence, but claimed that Madeleine came to 'no harm'. well do they deserve sympathy? The jury is out on this one regarding the McCANNs.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
In what way did the strategy of the vilification of Madeleine McCann's parents assist in solving her case?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 10:52:40 AM
I suppose so, but, the parents have caused many people, who suspect they are not being entirely honest about what happened that night, to dislike them due to the fact that these people are labelled as trolls and [ censored word ]s.
They vilify anyone who does not subcome to their agenda. Bought about by arrogance, and self importance gained through playing a victim. And don't forget Kate was very vocal about her 'suffering' and lack of sex life due to her daughters absence, but claimed that Madeleine came to 'no harm'. well do they deserve sympathy? The jury is out on this one regarding the McCANNs.
You may have missed the point ... the parents of a missing child are victims.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: lordpookles on May 30, 2015, 10:55:34 AM
You may have missed the point ... the parents of a missing child are victims.
No, there is no missing point at all. Some parents deserve sympathy and empathy some don't. That answers the question of the thread. Oh, I guess you don't approve of that reply dear me.
Re McCanns; What are they victims of exactly? a crime? has a crime against the parents been established?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: lordpookles on May 30, 2015, 11:13:20 AM
Well whoever it was they have done a pretty good job of hiding her.
IMO the McCanns guilty or innocent which is too big a topic, so let's shelve that have suffered the perfect storm. Almost anyone I mention this case too are horrified when they realise they were left alone in the apartment. Many here, maybe of an older generation can relate to leaving children alone as this was perhaps a more common practice in the old days, but the sympathy many may have had is all but gone when this is revealed. Also, add in their cold behaviour and lack of emotion in interviews and people jump to their own conclusions, which unfairly imo is complete amateur psychology(In fact the cold behaviour could be interpreted as bravery/guilt for what happened and be seen as a tragedy imo). Finally, add in the dogs and some are completely convinced, add to this the intense discussion in the press and on the internet and the resulting Chinese whispers, myths and jumped to conclusions and many people, which I believe is the majority in the UK and you have very little sympathy. Is very sad and unfair in many ways. On a more positive note for the McCanns lets not forget the immense support they have also received from many quarters.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 11:17:55 AM
No, there is no missing point at all. Some parents deserve sympathy and empathy some don't. That answers the question of the thread. Oh, I guess you don't approve of that reply dear me.
Re McCanns; What are they victims of exactly? a crime? has a crime against the parents been established?
The first thing to be remembered is that Madeleine McCann is a missing child ... it has taken her parents many years to get a review going into her case and as a result having her case reopened.
In what way did the vilification campaigns against your alleged 'undeserving of sympathy couple' assist in that process?
Very sad indeed that you consider the victims of a crime unworthy ... particularly the parents of missing, abducted or murdered children. Whether or not I "approve" your response is neither here nor there, the fact it is your opinion makes it of interest when mulling over a much wider set of circumstances.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 11:35:17 AM
Well whoever it was they have done a pretty good job of hiding her.
IMO the McCanns guilty or innocent which is too big a topic, so let's shelve that have suffered the perfect storm. Almost anyone I mention this case too are horrified when they realise they were left alone in the apartment. Many here, maybe of an older generation can relate to leaving children alone as this was perhaps a more common practice in the old days, but the sympathy many may have had is all but gone when this is revealed. Also, add in their cold behaviour and lack of emotion in interviews and people jump to their own conclusions, which unfairly imo is complete amateur psychology(In fact the cold behaviour could be interpreted as bravery/guilt for what happened and be seen as a tragedy imo). Finally, add in the dogs and some are completely convinced, add to this the intense discussion in the press and on the internet and the resulting Chinese whispers, myths and jumped to conclusions and many people, which I believe is the majority in the UK and you have very little sympathy. Is very sad and unfair in many ways. On a more positive note for the McCanns lets not forget the immense support they have also received from many quarters.
I would not allow myself to discount the amount of sympathy there is for the parents of missing children including the McCann's. People are capable of great feelings of empathy.
I think the vociferous very few on #mccann and on many unfriendly sites are deluded, not for any logical thought process ... but just simply because they want to be, and perhaps find comfort in belonging to a 'community' whatever that may be.
A case which relied on the myth and innuendo, which you have mentioned, to sustain it is no case at all. How much of the ire directed at Madeleine McCann's parents do you think is as a result of their unceasing efforts to find out what happened to her?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 30, 2015, 11:37:59 AM
The first thing to be remembered is that Madeleine McCann is a missing child ... it has taken her parents many years to get a review going into her case and as a result having her case reopened.
In what way did the vilification campaigns against your alleged 'undeserving of sympathy couple' assist in that process?
Very sad indeed that you consider the victims of a crime unworthy ... particularly the parents of missing, abducted or murdered children. Whether or not I "approve" your response is neither here nor there, the fact it is your opinion makes it of interest when mulling over a much wider set of circumstances.
Firstly let me remind you of the thread question. re: The parents of a missing child don't matter. I answered that!
It does not mention McCanns by name, but is that what was intended?; to associate Maddies disappearance with 'others' and to demand the McCanns deserve sympathy?. No crime has been established against the parents, they may know where she is and her mortal state, so as I said the jury is out on that one for everyone.
I am not responsible for little Maddies disappearance, I will not be responsible, or take credit for her recovery (if that ever materialises).
Your posting here makes no difference to Maddie either..
So to answer again(3rd time)... some people do not believe the McCanns deserve sympathy or empathy.
[edited]
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 30, 2015, 11:43:05 AM
The first thing to be remembered is that Madeleine McCann is a missing child ... it has taken her parents many years to get a review going into her case and as a result having her case reopened.
In what way did the vilification campaigns against your alleged 'undeserving of sympathy couple' assist in that process?
Very sad indeed that you consider the victims of a crime unworthy ... particularly the parents of missing, abducted or murdered children. Whether or not I "approve" your response is neither here nor there, the fact it is your opinion makes it of interest when mulling over a much wider set of circumstances.
in bold, please provide a cite, where I claimed I did not sympathise or empathise with parents of missing children.. OR even the McCanns!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Admin on May 30, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
I would not allow myself to discount the amount of sympathy there is for the parents of missing children including the McCann's. People are capable of great feelings of empathy.
I think the vociferous very few on #mccann and on many unfriendly sites are deluded, not for any logical thought process ... but just simply because they want to be, and perhaps find comfort in belonging to a 'community' whatever that may be.
A case which relied on the myth and innuendo, which you have mentioned, to sustain it is no case at all. How much of the ire directed at Madeleine McCann's parents do you think is as a result of their unceasing efforts to find out what happened to her?
A load to be fair. It's kept the issue in the limelight. Rather like having to step into the fire again and again to find their child. If it wasn't for Mr Grimes dogs I think the suspicion would have died down a long time ago. That is largely what fuels suspicion and I admit mine too when I read about this case. It is the only indication they may have been involved and frankly that is not enough to warrant this level of finger pointing. A moment of clarity for me when reading about this case was during an interview with Kate when she said something like if people really want to see the truth it is there, they just don't want to see it. The fact is there is no evidence to implicate them. If they are innocent we should give them as much support as possible. The fact there is a huge investigation on going and not for other missing children is because in this big bad world if you work hard enough and try hard enough good stuff happens.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 12:02:09 PM
Firstly let me remind you of the thread question. re: The parents of a missing child don't matter. I answered that!
It does not mention McCanns by name, but is that what was intended?; to associate Maddies disappearance with 'others' and to demand the McCanns deserve sympathy?. No crime has been established against the parents, they may know where she is and her mortal state, so as I said the jury is out on that one for everyone.
And of course you you do like to give or withhold your 'approval' you spend many hours here pontificating about peoples lower intelligence, demanding 'cites'... so one has to wonder in passing, why waste all your uber intelligence on this site?
I am not responsible for little Maddies disappearance, I will not be responsible, or take credit for her recovery (if that ever materialises).
Your posting here makes no difference to Maddie either.. so... get over yourself.
So to answer again(3rd time)... some people do not believe the McCanns deserve sympathy or empathy.
"I answered that!" %£&)**# Indeed you did.
Correct me if I'm wrong ... you seem to be of the opinion there are two classes of crime victims ... the deserving and the undeserving. Are you of the opinion the parents of a missing child come into the latter category?
May I respectfully remind you that personal mud slinging adds nothing to the debate, should what we post be considered debate and if you find my posting style annoying ~ I won't be offended if you ignore ~ I find it useful to do that on occasion.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 12:03:18 PM
I believe you should add the word 'innocent' prior to parents for that statement to hold water.
I would accept that absolutely.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Admin on May 30, 2015, 12:05:03 PM
Members are reminded not to make personal attacks on fellow members. Posts which breach the forum rules will be edited or removed completely.
Several pages of irrelevant discussion have already been removed from this thread so please keep to the general subject matter of the theme being discussed.
Admin
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 30, 2015, 12:24:32 PM
A load to be fair. It's kept the issue in the limelight. Rather like having to step into the fire again and again to find their child. If it wasn't for Mr Grimes dogs I think the suspicion would have died down a long time ago. That is largely what fuels suspicion and I admit mine too when I read about this case. It is the only indication they may have been involved and frankly that is not enough to warrant this level of finger pointing. A moment of clarity for me when reading about this case was during an interview with Kate when she said something like if people really want to see the truth it is there, they just don't want to see it. The fact is there is no evidence to implicate them. If they are innocent we should give them as much support as possible. The fact there is a huge investigation on going and not for other missing children is because in this big bad world if you work hard enough and try hard enough good stuff happens.
Misinterpretation of the dogs' work certainly partly led to the arguido status which had such a devastating effect on the public perception.
Dogs work cases all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes without. The public are never privy to any of the work being carried out by the teams except from a distance. What happened in Madeleine's case is a perfect illustration of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
Even in Madeleine McCann's case public interest had begun to flag leading to a drop off in donations to the Madeleine Fund which necessitated active steps to be taken to raise money in the form of writing a best seller. So yet again the parents' drive achieved the impossible of raising money to keep the search going and ultimately to have Madeleine's case reviewed and re-opened. How many people have that amount of expertise or energy to mimic what the McCanns have done? ... and their much criticised involvement with the Missing People charity must have benefited from it.
Why Madeleine's parents should be vilified for keeping her case alive against all the odds is beyond my comprehension.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Admin on May 30, 2015, 12:34:51 PM
Misinterpretation of the dogs' work certainly partly led to the arguido status which had such a devastating effect on the public perception.
Dogs work cases all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes without. The public are never privy to any of the work being carried out by the teams except from a distance. What happened in Madeleine's case is a perfect illustration of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
Even in Madeleine McCann's case public interest had begun to flag leading to a drop off in donations to the Madeleine Fund which necessitated active steps to be taken to raise money in the form of writing a best seller. So yet again the parents' drive achieved the impossible of raising money to keep the search going and ultimately to have Madeleine's case reviewed and re-opened. How many people have that amount of expertise or energy to mimic what the McCanns have done? ... and their much criticised involvement with the Missing People charity must have benefited from it.
Why Madeleine's parents should be vilified for keeping her case alive against all the odds is beyond my comprehension.
Good post!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lyall on May 30, 2015, 12:36:40 PM
Misinterpretation of the dogs' work certainly partly led to the arguido status which had such a devastating effect on the public perception.
Dogs work cases all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes without. The public are never privy to any of the work being carried out by the teams except from a distance. What happened in Madeleine's case is a perfect illustration of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
Even in Madeleine McCann's case public interest had begun to flag leading to a drop off in donations to the Madeleine Fund which necessitated active steps to be taken to raise money in the form of writing a best seller. So yet again the parents' drive achieved the impossible of raising money to keep the search going and ultimately to have Madeleine's case reviewed and re-opened. How many people have that amount of expertise or energy to mimic what the McCanns have done? ... and their much criticised involvement with the Missing People charity must have benefited from it.
Why Madeleine's parents should be vilified for keeping her case alive against all the odds is beyond my comprehension.
Did they ask for a review in 2008, Brietta?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 30, 2015, 12:43:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong ... you seem to be of the opinion there are two classes of crime victims ... the deserving and the undeserving. Are you of the opinion the parents of a missing child come into the latter category?
May I respectfully remind you that personal mud slinging adds nothing to the debate, should what we post be considered debate and if you find my posting style annoying ~ I won't be offended if you ignore ~ I find it useful to do that on occasion.
Your posting style is not annnoying- just nasty/trolling accusatory behaviour.
I have NOT expressed an opinion on either. The fact that you feel you 'know' my opinion is a bit arrogant. You only 'think' you know because it is what you want it to be.
I was responding to the thread. I was just throwing questions out there for discussion. I have never wrongly accused the McCANNS OF ANYTHING So Keep a lid on your accusations!
How long do you think it took to get the files properly translated and then to go through them?
That's a fair point about their own efforts, but British police would have done that themselves.
It's OT in this thread but you keep stating, in many posts and threads, that they did everything they could. But history actually shows they were urged to request a review in 2008, and they did not.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: John on May 30, 2015, 01:13:09 PM
This is an intriguing subject, but do we have empathy for the parents who kill?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ferryman on May 30, 2015, 01:28:26 PM
That's a fair point about their own efforts, but British police would have done that themselves.
It's OT in this thread but you keep stating, in many posts and threads, that they did everything they could. But history actually shows they were urged to request a review in 2008, and they did not.
No, I don't think that's right. The shelved investigation was concluded in August 2008 when it was considered that all possible avenues of investigation had been exhausted by the joint Portuguese/Anglo investigation.
It was always made plain that new information or evidence was needed to re-open the investigation and, at that juncture (early August, 2008) that just didn't exist.
So there just wasn't any prospect of the Portuguese officials re-opening the case.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lyall on May 30, 2015, 01:37:08 PM
No, I don't think that's right. The shelved investigation was concluded in August 2008 when it was considered that all possible avenues of investigation had been exhausted by the joint Portuguese/Anglo investigation.
It was always made plain that new information or evidence was needed to re-open the investigation and, at that juncture (early August, 2008) that just didn't exist.
So there just wasn't any prospect of the Portuguese officials re-opening the case.
No, my point is about the British police. A petition was launched requesting a Met review in late 2010, but why wasn't it done in 2008?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2015, 02:11:06 PM
This is an intriguing subject, but do we have empathy for the parents who kill?
That's a very interesting question John. Parents kill for many reasons, don't they? We can understand how it may happen in certain circumstances. Some parents want to die and think it's better for the children to take them also. Others just lose their tempers and lash out with no intention to kill. Some parents get into a cycle of 'scapegoating' one child, and their lack of empathy leads to cruelty which ends in the death of the child.
empathy = the capacity to understand what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: John on May 30, 2015, 02:43:15 PM
That's a very interesting question John. Parents kill for many reasons, don't they? We can understand how it may happen in certain circumstances. Some parents want to die and think it's better for the children to take them also. Others just lose their tempers and lash out with no intention to kill. Some parents get into a cycle of 'scapegoating' one child, and their lack of empathy leads to cruelty which ends in the death of the child.
empathy = the capacity to understand what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes.
I have met many men convicted of murderer and what surprised me the most but not in every case was the regret. Regret that things had escalated to the point where someone died. These were not psychopaths or men with mental illnesses but just ordinary Joe Bloggs from the street. I spent a lot of time talking with them and yes, I certainly have sympathy with them the fate which awaited them.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2015, 03:00:54 PM
I have met many men convicted of murderer and what surprised me the most but not in every case was the regret. Regret that things had escalated to the point where someone died. These were not psychopaths or men with mental illnesses but just ordinary Joe Bloggs from the street. I spent a lot of time talking with them and yes, I certainly have sympathy with them the fate which awaited them.
Yes, not all murderers are so different from anyone else. There's a huge range of people and circumstances involved, so really it depends on the circumstances whether it's possible to empathise or sympathise, I think. By the way, not all psychopaths are criminals, you know, just some of them. Others are hugely successful people because psychopathic traits are very useful in business.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 30, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
Really? 0 on the empathy scale? Just a glib remark?
There's a set of tests on the BBC dating back maybe 15 years, designed to show the brain differences between men and women.
One was an empathy test, with scores in the range 0-20.
It was a long time ago, so please allow for memory errors on my part.
The average scores for men and for women were surprisingly close, indicating that empathy is not a good way to differentiate men and women. I believe the average was 12 for men and 14 for women.
I scored a 2.
Folks who know me in real life know that if they want help/experience/problem resolution, I'm great at that. But if they want empathy they go elsewhere.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 04:00:52 PM
That's a fair point about their own efforts, but British police would have done that themselves.
It's OT in this thread but you keep stating, in many posts and threads, that they did everything they could. But history actually shows they were urged to request a review in 2008, and they did not.
I don't think your post is OT as you mention yet another infamous criticism of the parents of a missing child.
Without going seriously into dates for the shelving of Madeleine's case, dates for the release of the files and time scales for finding grounds for and submitting such a request ... I think mention of a review in 2008 just did not happen and became common currency because of parental continuing efforts on their daughter's behalf being an irritation. Bear in mind the case was archived because of a lack of evidence ... we have been repeatedly told it would be reopened only when new evidence would be found which allowed it.
(a) who urged them to ask for a review? (b) what grounds would they have used for a review?
Operation Grange undertook a review of the evidence in 2011, including that which had been submitted since the archiving. It was deemed necessary to have a working review involving many of the Met's resources and personnel as well as the co-operation of the Portuguese who remain the lead authority.
What parents would have the resources to do that, and perhaps more importantly why should parents be expected to?
The fact remains that grounds were found justify the re-opening of the case. So what was it that drove the campaigns against, in which every device in the book was used to prevent the only type of investigation likely ever to uncover what happened to Madeleine McCann?
I think it shows that in this case the parents of a missing child do matter greatly in getting the case investigated properly ~ which makes the constant criticism of their every action by those who pay lip service to slogans such as 'justice' and 'truth for Maddy' all the more incomprehensible.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 30, 2015, 04:18:25 PM
There's a set of tests on the BBC dating back maybe 15 years, designed to show the brain differences between men and women.
One was an empathy test, with scores in the range 0-20.
It was a long time ago, so please allow for memory errors on my part.
The average scores for men and for women were surprisingly close, indicating that empathy is not a good way to differentiate men and women. I believe the average was 12 for men and 14 for women.
I scored a 2.
Folks who know me in real life know that if they want help/experience/problem resolution, I'm great at that. But if they want empathy they go elsewhere.
Funnily enough, I did get that sort of vibe off you, it seems this case attracts a lot of people with zero empathy - I wonder why?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2015, 04:57:07 PM
Dear dear dear. Four hours away and interacting with normal and caring people, and I am shocked yet again. There is never any mention of the culpability of some other person. Always and only it is the fault of the parents, despite obvious other possibilities. So when do the parents of a missing child actually matter?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carew on May 30, 2015, 05:05:08 PM
In what way did the strategy of the vilification of Madeleine McCann's parents assist in solving her case?
......and how exactly does this reply answer my post to which you`ve attached it ?
I did not mention any "strategy" to vilify the parents.
The "strategy" I referred to was that employed by those who possibly do not want Madeleine found.
This is the post, in case you are confused.....
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on May 30, 2015, 06:12:34 PM
Dear dear dear. Four hours away and interacting with normal and caring people, and I am shocked yet again. There is never any mention of the culpability of some other person. Always and only it is the fault of the parents, despite obvious other possibilities. So when do the parents of a missing child actually matter?
Which other person would that be?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 07:37:39 PM
......and how exactly does this reply answer my post to which you`ve attached it ?
I did not mention any "strategy" to vilify the parents.
The "strategy" I referred to was that employed by those who possibly do not want Madeleine found.
This is the post, in case you are confused.....
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
I think what I have written in reply "In what way did the strategy of the vilification of Madeleine McCann's parents assist in solving her case?" fits the bill entirely. If you don't like it, that's your prerogative.
Are you saying there has been no strategy of vilification directed at Madeleine McCann's parents and that this has not on occasion indirectly affected Madeleine's case and on occasion direct attempts at interference made?
You admit that there are those "who possibly don't want Madeleine found" ... so who would be better pleased at the strategy of defaming her parents and pulling out all the stops to derail any inquiry into her case?
I don't think anyone who had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance can be a happy bunny today ... they've had a jolly easy ride over the past eight years ... and the unprecedented campaign waged against Madeleine McCann's parents most certainly must have given comfort.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 30, 2015, 07:56:03 PM
I think what I have written in reply "In what way did the strategy of the vilification of Madeleine McCann's parents assist in solving her case?" fits the bill entirely. If you don't like it, that's your prerogative.
Are you saying there has been no strategy of vilification directed at Madeleine McCann's parents and that this has not on occasion indirectly affected Madeleine's case and on occasion direct attempts at interference made?
You admit that there are those "who possibly don't want Madeleine found" ... so who would be better pleased at the strategy of defaming her parents and pulling out all the stops to derail any inquiry into her case?
I don't think anyone who had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance can be a happy bunny today ... they've had a jolly easy ride over the past eight years ... and the unprecedented campaign waged against Madeleine McCann's parents most certainly must have given comfort.
You clearly believe there has been a strategy. In your opinion has this strategy been implemented by a lone nutter? or is it a carefully coordinated strategy involving a group of people?. What do you suppose is the long term aim for this strategy? Is it not possible that it amounts to little more than a bunch of spiteful people sounding off? A bit like those who behave like a herd of alpacas, toward a well known Portuguese ex detective.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carew on May 30, 2015, 08:01:43 PM
I think what I have written in reply "In what way did the strategy of the vilification of Madeleine McCann's parents assist in solving her case?" fits the bill entirely. If you don't like it, that's your prerogative.
Are you saying there has been no strategy of vilification directed at Madeleine McCann's parents and that this has not on occasion indirectly affected Madeleine's case and on occasion direct attempts at interference made?
You admit that there are those "who possibly don't want Madeleine found" ... so who would be better pleased at the strategy of defaming her parents and pulling out all the stops to derail any inquiry into her case?
I don't think anyone who had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance can be a happy bunny today ... they've had a jolly easy ride over the past eight years ... and the unprecedented campaign waged against Madeleine McCann's parents most certainly must have given comfort.
Your reply does not relate to my post. Whether I like or dislike it is neither here nor there.
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
Your use of my post on which to attach your own "material," about the vilification of Madeleine`s parents, no matter how loosely connected, is noted.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 08:36:38 PM
You clearly believe there has been a strategy. In your opinion has this strategy been implemented by a lone nutter? or is it a carefully coordinated strategy involving a group of people?. What do you suppose is the long term aim for this strategy? Is it not possible that it amounts to little more than a bunch of spiteful people sounding off? A bit like those who behave like a herd of alpacas, toward a well known Portuguese ex detective.
Do you have any involvement in politics? If you do you will be aware of the use of social media ... if you don't a little browse into the mire of the political blogs and tweets ... will inform you.
With the defection of a recruiter from fundamental Islamists we have been given a glimpse of the high tech social media recruitment campaign utilised. Now that one has to be really good ~ "Come and join us for the opportunity to behead a couple of folk then you can do a stint as a suicide bomber" ~ but it seems to be working just fine. As ordinary folk and their families are getting drowned trying to get away from the mayhem ... these young folk are queuing up to join in.
That there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child is undeniable ... who may actually be pulling the strings is something the police may know or may discover.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 08:52:02 PM
Your reply does not relate to my post. Whether I like or dislike it is neither here nor there.
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
Your use of my post on which to attach your own "material," about the vilification of Madeleine`s parents, no matter how loosely connected, is noted.
OK ... let's take it step by step ... my post was not attached to your post ... it was my reply to your post.
However your outrage seems to indicate that my "material" has hit a mark and illustrates exactly the type of unwarranted vilification to which Madeleine McCann's parents have been subject for over eight years.
There sure is someone out there who doesn't want Madeleine found ... if you took the blinkers off for a millisecond you might realise it is neither of her parents.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2015, 09:17:04 PM
Do you have any involvement in politics? If you do you will be aware of the use of social media ... if you don't a little browse into the mire of the political blogs and tweets ... will inform you.
With the defection of a recruiter from fundamental Islamists we have been given a glimpse of the high tech social media recruitment campaign utilised. Now that one has to be really good ~ "Come and join us for the opportunity to behead a couple of folk then you can do a stint as a suicide bomber" ~ but it seems to be working just fine. As ordinary folk and their families are getting drowned trying to get away from the mayhem ... these young folk are queuing up to join in.
That there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child is undeniable ... who may actually be pulling the strings is something the police may know or may discover.
I'll discuss your post Brietta, point by point.
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 30, 2015, 09:51:48 PM
Funnily enough, I did get that sort of vibe off you, it seems this case attracts a lot of people with zero empathy - I wonder why?
Oddly enough, I see the case as being many people vehemently against the McCanns or vehemently for the McCanns. A major driver appears to be behavioural analysis.
Given my lack of empathy, I am not feeling for either side on this basis.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on May 30, 2015, 10:22:40 PM
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
I would say that spreading the word amongst sceptics via various forums that a newspaper article is open for comments and encouraging fellow sceptics to go and leave comments is a form of organised malice.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
I fail to see the point of your question, although I'm sure you have one.
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
You mean you have read nothing from#mccann?
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
Hmmm … current affairs not really your thing then, glad I was able to inform.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
New to the internet are you? Just type in Madeleine McCann and see what interesting places you can visit … then you may already be familiar with them and find it all quite innocuous … who can tell?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
LOL … at exactly the same moment in time … some individuals think it a good idea to set up a petition on …………… fill in the blanks.
Then at exactly the same moment in time individuals independently come up with the idea of bombarding the phone lines of a television programme seeking information about a missing child.
Organised and coordinated cyber attacks on charity websites.
Organised and coordinated attacks on newspaper comments to the extent many newspapers no longer allow comments on a McCann article.
Is someone pulling the strings or are they the forerunners of ~ Telepathy-like brain-to-brain communication achieved across 5000 miles: What does it mean? http://www.techtimes.com/articles/15103/20140908/telepathy-like-brain-to-brain-communication-achieved-across-5000-miles-what-does-it-mean.htm
Just for information ... debate does not consist of firing off a string of questions ... it goes along the lines of starting a sentence along the lines of ... "I do not agree with what you have said because .............." If you try it you may find it a more constructive and satisfying approach.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 30, 2015, 10:43:55 PM
Do you have any involvement in politics? If you do you will be aware of the use of social media ... if you don't a little browse into the mire of the political blogs and tweets ... will inform you.
With the defection of a recruiter from fundamental Islamists we have been given a glimpse of the high tech social media recruitment campaign utilised. Now that one has to be really good ~ "Come and join us for the opportunity to behead a couple of folk then you can do a stint as a suicide bomber" ~ but it seems to be working just fine. As ordinary folk and their families are getting drowned trying to get away from the mayhem ... these young folk are queuing up to join in.
That there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child is undeniable ... who may actually be pulling the strings is something the police may know or may discover.
Most of it has gone over my head as you have failed to address the question with a load of nebulous hooha. As for the highlighted bit ; well the last time a dossier was presented to the law as being "the smoking gun" the cops and CPS metaphorically laughed in the face of the presenters.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2015, 10:58:29 PM
Most of it has gone over my head as you have failed to address the question with a load of nebulous hooha. As for the highlighted bit ; well the last time a dossier was presented to the law as being "the smoking gun" the cops and CPS metaphorically laughed in the face of the presenters.
"well the last time a dossier was presented to the law as being "the smoking gun" the cops and CPS metaphorically laughed in the face of the presenters."
Nothing exemplifies the disdain in which the parents of a missing child are held by the Leicestershire Police and CPS than the lack of action on this and the attacks on Madeleine McCann's parents without let up over the past eight years.
It takes a special kind of person to revel in that level of abuse being tolerated and allowed to continue without let or hindrance by the authorities.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 06:50:49 AM
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
I fail to see the point of your question, although I'm sure you have one.
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
You mean you have read nothing from#mccann?
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
Hmmm … current affairs not really your thing then, glad I was able to inform.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
New to the internet are you? Just type in Madeleine McCann and see what interesting places you can visit … then you may already be familiar with them and find it all quite innocuous … who can tell?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
LOL … at exactly the same moment in time … some individuals think it a good idea to set up a petition on …………… fill in the blanks.
Then at exactly the same moment in time individuals independently come up with the idea of bombarding the phone lines of a television programme seeking information about a missing child.
Organised and coordinated cyber attacks on charity websites.
Organised and coordinated attacks on newspaper comments to the extent many newspapers no longer allow comments on a McCann article.
Is someone pulling the strings or are they the forerunners of ~ Telepathy-like brain-to-brain communication achieved across 5000 miles: What does it mean? http://www.techtimes.com/articles/15103/20140908/telepathy-like-brain-to-brain-communication-achieved-across-5000-miles-what-does-it-mean.htm
Just for information ... debate does not consist of firing off a string of questions ... it goes along the lines of starting a sentence along the lines of ... "I do not agree with what you have said because .............." If you try it you may find it a more constructive and satisfying approach.
I have difficulty sometimes understanding what point (apart from 'look at all the mcCann bashing') you are trying to make. That's why it's difficult to answer you.
I don't see how #mccann can be described as political. I look at it occasionally because it tends to get any latest news out quickly. I ignore the idiots on there (of both hues) and would have thought any intelligent person would do likewise. I don't trawl the internet looking for derogatory comments about the McCanns, I look for information which seems to have a basis in fact. Some people try to organise petitions and some say silly things on websites, but I doubt if they're as organised as you seem to think. I believe someone tried to get Leanne's gofundme page stopped and she had to prove it was above board to continue with her appeal for Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on May 31, 2015, 08:21:20 AM
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
I fail to see the point of your question, although I'm sure you have one.
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
You mean you have read nothing from#mccann?
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
Hmmm … current affairs not really your thing then, glad I was able to inform.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
New to the internet are you? Just type in Madeleine McCann and see what interesting places you can visit … then you may already be familiar with them and find it all quite innocuous … who can tell?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
LOL … at exactly the same moment in time … some individuals think it a good idea to set up a petition on …………… fill in the blanks.
Then at exactly the same moment in time individuals independently come up with the idea of bombarding the phone lines of a television programme seeking information about a missing child.
Organised and coordinated cyber attacks on charity websites.
Organised and coordinated attacks on newspaper comments to the extent many newspapers no longer allow comments on a McCann article.
Is someone pulling the strings or are they the forerunners of ~ Telepathy-like brain-to-brain communication achieved across 5000 miles: What does it mean? http://www.techtimes.com/articles/15103/20140908/telepathy-like-brain-to-brain-communication-achieved-across-5000-miles-what-does-it-mean.htm
Just for information ... debate does not consist of firing off a string of questions ... it goes along the lines of starting a sentence along the lines of ... "I do not agree with what you have said because .............." If you try it you may find it a more constructive and satisfying approach.
What you seem completely unable to comprehend, is that many people don't believe the mccanns story.
Whist there are small groups of people on either side who operate in groups, it does mean there is a conspiracy against the mccanns.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carew on May 31, 2015, 08:55:20 AM
OK ... let's take it step by step ... my post was not attached to your post ... it was my reply to your post.
However your outrage seems to indicate that my "material" has hit a mark and illustrates exactly the type of unwarranted vilification to which Madeleine McCann's parents have been subject for over eight years.
There sure is someone out there who doesn't want Madeleine found ... if you took the blinkers off for a millisecond you might realise it is neither of her parents.
......erm, no!
You seem to have used a post of mine as an excuse to eventually launch into an unrelated lecture about 8 years of vilification of the parents , my blinkered outrage and your hitting the mark !
Quote from: Carew on May 30, 2015, 10:27:10 AM
If she had not been alive when she left the apartment........which is being considered as a possibility according to SY comments..........then it figures that the removers did not want her found.
Could this have led to a "strategy" designed to prevent her being found?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 08:58:55 AM
I have difficulty sometimes understanding what point (apart from 'look at all the mcCann bashing') you are trying to make. That's why it's difficult to answer you.
I don't see how #mccann can be described as political. I look at it occasionally because it tends to get any latest news out quickly. I ignore the idiots on there (of both hues) and would have thought any intelligent person would do likewise. I don't trawl the internet looking for derogatory comments about the McCanns, I look for information which seems to have a basis in fact. Some people try to organise petitions and some say silly things on websites, but I doubt if they're as organised as you seem to think. I believe someone tried to get Leanne's gofundme page stopped and she had to prove it was above board to continue with her appeal for Goncalo Amaral.
Don't you think that sometimes you have difficulty in responding to what I have posted for reason it is irrefutable.
For example there is no dearth of examples of exactly what the Drs McCann have suffered as the parents of a missing child as one is spoiled for choice with eight years of background material to choose from.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on May 31, 2015, 09:04:10 AM
Don't you think that sometimes you have difficulty in responding to what I have posted for reason it is irrefutable.
For example there is no dearth of examples of exactly what the Drs McCann have suffered as the parents of a missing child as one is spoiled for choice with eight years of background material to choose from.
A 'suffering' that was a result of their own actions.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on May 31, 2015, 09:12:52 AM
Why would anyone need to be involved in politics to be aware of social media?
Why are political blogs and tweets described by you as 'mire'? Where are they so we can see them.
ISIS recruiters use social media do they? I don't really know anything about that.
If 'there are organised campaigns of malice directed towards the parents of a missing child' where are they?
Do you have any basis for saying that someone is 'pulling the strings'? Please provide more information to support thia allegation.
What about the leafletting campaign organised by Tony Bennet and Co when libellous leaflets were distributed around the McCanns village.
Despite his promise to desist - (after his court case) - to this day he still persists in trying to organise people to join him in his ongoing campaign against the McCanns - e.g. by urging folk to write to the same people he writes to.
If those actions don't come under the heading of sustained 'organised malice' against the parents of a missing child - I don't know what does.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on May 31, 2015, 09:16:02 AM
What about the leafletting campaign organised by Tony Bennet and Co when libellous leaflets were distributed around the McCanns village.
Despite his promise to desist - (after his court case) - to this day he still persists in trying to organise people to join him in his ongoing campaign against the McCanns - e.g. by urging folk to write to the same people he writes to.
If those actions don't come under the heading of sustained 'organised malice' against the parents of a missing child - I don't know what does.
Let's not forget the DOSSIER
Please remind me who died.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 09:18:29 AM
Don't you think that sometimes you have difficulty in responding to what I have posted for reason it is irrefutable.
For example there is no dearth of examples of exactly what the Drs McCann have suffered as the parents of a missing child as one is spoiled for choice with eight years of background material to choose from.
I have difficulty in responding to what you post because it consists mostly of opinion, which is obviously irrefutable because it has no basis in fact.
If there is 'no dearth' of examples of 'what the Drs McCann have suffered' then please give examples, although what it has to do with this forum I don't know.
They are the parents of a missing child, true. They are also a couple who's version of events is not believed by everyone. Because of their inconsistent stories they aroused the suspicions of the Portuguese police and were eventually made arguidos. Although not enough evidence was collected to charge them the fact remains that they have failed to convince many people that they told the truth. The only people to blame for that is the McCanns, no-one else.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 09:37:55 AM
What about the leafletting campaign organised by Tony Bennet and Co when libellous leaflets were distributed around the McCanns village.
Despite his promise to desist - (after his court case) - to this day he still persists in trying to organise people to join him in his ongoing campaign against the McCanns - e.g. by urging folk to write to the same people he writes to.
If those actions don't come under the heading of sustained 'organised malice' against the parents of a missing child - I don't know what does.
I don't know how many people are influenced by Tony Bennett. From what I know not many. He can't be accused of hiding, at least. Everything he says he says under his own name. I also have no idea what his motivation is. It may be malice or it may be something else. You can say it's 'organised malice', but that is just your opinion.
The parents of a stolen child must suffer terribly. Although the McCanns say their child was stolen we only have their word for it. There is no proof of what happened to Madeleine Mccann. She is missing and hopefully one day someone will be able to prove what happened to her. Until then people will wonder and discuss the case. Some believe the parent's story, some don't. Attacking people for their honest opinions achieves nothing useful at all in my opinion. The worst attacks I have seen, to be honest, are upon those who doubt their story.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 31, 2015, 10:50:43 AM
"well the last time a dossier was presented to the law as being "the smoking gun" the cops and CPS metaphorically laughed in the face of the presenters."
Nothing exemplifies the disdain in which the parents of a missing child are held by the Leicestershire Police and CPS than the lack of action on this and the attacks on Madeleine McCann's parents without let up over the past eight years.
It takes a special kind of person to revel in that level of abuse being tolerated and allowed to continue without let or hindrance by the authorities.
You seem to be ignoring the basic questions. Lest ye forget they were: You clearly believe there has been a strategy. In your opinion has this strategy been implemented by a lone nutter? or is it a carefully coordinated strategy involving a group of people?. What do you suppose is the long term aim for this strategy?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on May 31, 2015, 12:14:54 PM
I don't know how many people are influenced by Tony Bennett. From what I know not many. He can't be accused of hiding, at least. Everything he says he says under his own name. I also have no idea what his motivation is. It may be malice or it may be something else. You can say it's 'organised malice', but that is just your opinion.
The parents of a stolen child must suffer terribly. Although the McCanns say their child was stolen we only have their word for it. There is no proof of what happened to Madeleine Mccann. She is missing and hopefully one day someone will be able to prove what happened to her. Until then people will wonder and discuss the case. Some believe the parent's story, some don't. Attacking people for their honest opinions achieves nothing useful at all in my opinion. The worst attacks I have seen, to be honest, are upon those who doubt their story.
[/b]
There is no proof of what happened to Ben Needham either. I find the idea that his family may be culpable simply on the grounds of 'no proof' as bizarre as the McCanns being suspected of the disposal of Madeleine on those same grounds - and for the same reasons too i.e.:
There is not a scrap of evidence that either families were capable of even thinking about committing such a vile crime against their own beloved children - let alone carrying it out. No adverse evidence about the kind of families they are - either before or since they lost their children has emerged to change my mind. It's obvious that both children were loved and wanted.
Both families are still trying to keep their missing child's profile in the public's mind. IMO it's a strange kind of mindset that believes guilty people would CHOOSE to embark on such a personally dangerous course of action year in year out - which clearly involves the serious risk of their own incarceration being the final outcome - when they have no need to. That makes no sense whatsoever to me.
Pure speculation on my part but I suspect that quite a few of Tony Bennet's opinions are 'shared' by his co-horts who are willing and able to promote identical opinions to those he cannot express himself in public.
IMO there is a vast difference between folk who choose to hurl abuse at one another on the internet (they can get on with it IMO) and the fact that sustained malice is directed at the parents of a missing child via the internet on a daily basis and has been for the last 8 years. Your comment appears to relate to the former. My concern refers to the latter.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 01:17:55 PM
A 'suffering' that was a result of their own actions.
Interesting you should say that in an attempt to justify the contemptible eight year campaigns to hound the parents of a missing child which attempt to block every single move Madeleine McCann's parents have ever initiated in the attempt to find out what happened to their daughter.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 01:33:48 PM
What you seem completely unable to comprehend, is that many people don't believe the mccanns story.
Whist there are small groups of people on either side who operate in groups, it does mean there is a conspiracy against the mccanns.
I completely understand there is a core of maliciously motivated people who debase words such as 'Truth' or 'Justice' in Madeleine's name. I am also of the understanding that some do better than make ends meet using the tragic case of a missing little girl to suit their own ends.
Whether these people choose to believe a convicted perjurer or whether they choose to disbelieve the parents of a missing child ... is entirely up to them.
To have participated in an eight year daily campaign against Madeleine McCann's parents, as some have, is something beyond understanding and decency.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on May 31, 2015, 01:38:17 PM
Interesting you should say that in an attempt to justify the contemptible eight year campaigns to hound the parents of a missing child which attempt to block every single move Madeleine McCann's parents have ever initiated in the attempt to find out what happened to their daughter.
The investigation into Madeleine's disappearance has never been blocked.
You need to smell the coffee.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on May 31, 2015, 01:39:31 PM
I completely understand there is a core of maliciously motivated people who debase words such as 'Truth' or 'Justice' in Madeleine's name. I am also of the understanding that some do better than make ends meet using the tragic case of a missing little girl to suit their own ends.
Whether these people choose to believe a convicted perjurer or whether they choose to disbelieve the parents of a missing child ... is entirely up to them.
To have participated in an eight year daily campaign against Madeleine McCann's parents, as some have, is something beyond understanding and decency.
Your clear hatred of Amaral blocks your reasoning.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 01:41:48 PM
I have difficulty in responding to what you post because it consists mostly of opinion, which is obviously irrefutable because it has no basis in fact.
If there is 'no dearth' of examples of 'what the Drs McCann have suffered' then please give examples, although what it has to do with this forum I don't know.
They are the parents of a missing child, true. They are also a couple who's version of events is not believed by everyone. Because of their inconsistent stories they aroused the suspicions of the Portuguese police and were eventually made arguidos. Although not enough evidence was collected to charge them the fact remains that they have failed to convince many people that they told the truth. The only people to blame for that is the McCanns, no-one else.
Hasn't it struck you that these much maligned parents ... are innocent ... a status confirmed by the Portuguese Judiciary.
Hasn't it struck you how ridiculous it is when you state "The only people to blame for that is the McCanns, no-one else."and how it illustrates exactly your unfounded and downright nasty opinions of people you really know nothing about and mirrors the rationale used to abuse them on a daily basis.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 01:46:58 PM
You seem to be ignoring the basic questions. Lest ye forget they were: You clearly believe there has been a strategy. In your opinion has this strategy been implemented by a lone nutter? or is it a carefully coordinated strategy involving a group of people?. What do you suppose is the long term aim for this strategy?
If you had been responsible for a heinous crime for which someone else was being blamed ... you would of course join a group which advocated the innocence of the accused parties and take up the cudgels on their behalf.
£5%4%
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 01:54:03 PM
The actual fact is, it has been ascertained who is guilty of removing Madeleine from the apartment.
I hope you are not primed to demonstrate more aversion to Madeleine McCann's parents in my anticipated reply ... although it is possible you might have managed a variation on a theme of your disdain for them, I doubt it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on May 31, 2015, 02:27:34 PM
I hope you are not primed to demonstrate more aversion to Madeleine McCann's parents in my anticipated reply ... although it is possible you might have managed a variation on a theme of your disdain for them, I doubt it.
Give me one logical reason why I should admire the pair who are responsible for this case ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 31, 2015, 02:29:03 PM
If you had been responsible for a heinous crime for which someone else was being blamed ... you would of course join a group which advocated the innocence of the accused parties and take up the cudgels on their behalf.
£5%4%
Was that a question or a statement? It seems however you are implying that one of the people, who does all "the McCann bashing" to which you refer, is actually the guilty party? An interesting notion considering no one knows what if any crime was committed. You still seem to be avoiding the questions I posed.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 03:03:58 PM
Hasn't it struck you that these much maligned parents ... are innocent ... a status confirmed by the Portuguese Judiciary.
Hasn't it struck you how ridiculous it is when you state "The only people to blame for that is the McCanns, no-one else."and how it illustrates exactly your unfounded and downright nasty opinions of people you really know nothing about and mirrors the rationale used to abuse them on a daily basis.
I don't know whether the McCanns are innocent of any involvement in the disappearance of their daughter or not, and neither do you, You believe in them and I'm not sure.
What I find ridiculous is that a group of people who have no more knowledge of what happened than I do choose to defend this couple, whom they know nothing about, to the extent that they do. My opinions are definitely not unfounded, they are based on what I have seen and read about the case, and if I post something it's based on the facts in so far as we know them.
The reason people doubt the McCanns are many. They have had many years to put the record straight but have never even attempted to do so. If people conclude that's because they can't, then the blame for that lies with them, no-one else. I think some people have got frustrated and have gone too far and made personal attacks on the Mccanns. I don't support that and don't do it myself. Abuse and questioning are not the same thing.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 31, 2015, 04:03:06 PM
I don't know whether the McCanns are innocent of any involvement in the disappearance of their daughter or not, and neither do you, You believe in them and I'm not sure.
What I find ridiculous is that a group of people who have no more knowledge of what happened than I do choose to defend this couple, whom they know nothing about, to the extent that they do. My opinions are definitely not unfounded, they are based on what I have seen and read about the case, and if I post something it's based on the facts in so far as we know them.
The reason people doubt the McCanns are many. They have had many years to put the record straight but have never even attempted to do so. If people conclude that's because they can't, then the blame for that lies with them, no-one else. I think some people have got frustrated and have gone too far and made personal attacks on the Mccanns. I don't support that and don't do it myself. Abuse and questioning are not the same thing.
Kate McCann has written a book and both McCanns have given countless interviews over the years. In what way would you like them to attempt to put the record straight exactly? What haven't they told you that you think you need to know in order to stop doubting them?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 07:37:49 PM
Kate McCann has written a book and both McCanns have given countless interviews over the years. In what way would you like them to attempt to put the record straight exactly? What haven't they told you that you think you need to know in order to stop doubting them?
They have given many interviews, but have only been asked difficult questions by one interviewer; Sandra Felgueiras. Each time she asked a difficult question the answer was either flippant or deflected, never answered seriously. They could start there, perhaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyjVmxWzDY
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 31, 2015, 07:59:23 PM
They have given many interviews, but have only been asked difficult questions by one interviewer; Sandra Felgueiras. Each time she asked a difficult question the answer was either flippant or deflected, never answered seriously. They could start there, perhaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyjVmxWzDY
Now perhaps you can answer my question. What haven't they told you that you think you need to know in order to stop doubting them?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 31, 2015, 08:04:44 PM
Kate McCann has written a book and both McCanns have given countless interviews over the years. In what way would you like them to attempt to put the record straight exactly? What haven't they told you that you think you need to know in order to stop doubting them?
I have got to say that on the theme of unturned stones, the McCanns are in prime position to turn over quite a few.
They are not the only people who can turn over unturned stones. Indeed, they cannot turn over the majority of the unturned stones.
Further, they do not have to prove their innocence. That notion is ridiculous
However, the pile of unturned stones they control is large. Turning over a few would progress the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Surely this is central to working out what happened?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 31, 2015, 08:27:00 PM
I have got to say that on the theme of unturned stones, the McCanns are in prime position to turn over quite a few.
They are not the only people who can turn over unturned stones. Indeed, they cannot turn over the majority of the unturned stones.
Further, they do not have to prove their innocence. That notion is ridiculous
However, the pile of unturned stones they control is large. Turning over a few would progress the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Surely this is central to working out what happened?
Would you kindly furnish us with some examples of these unturned stones?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 08:46:17 PM
Now perhaps you can answer my question. What haven't they told you that you think you need to know in order to stop doubting them?
I'm not wasting time making a list if that's what you want. It's all out there and if you haven't seen it maybe you should do some research. You may then find that your faith in this couple whom you don't know (I assume) could be somewhat naive.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 31, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
I'm not wasting time making a list if that's what you want. It's all out there and if you haven't seen it maybe you should do some research. You may then find that your faith in this couple whom you don't know (I assume) could be somewhat naive.
No need to be so stroppy! I didn't ask for a list so how about just giving me one example of something they haven't told us that would make you doubt them less.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2015, 08:53:40 PM
Give me one logical reason why I should admire the pair who are responsible for this case ?
Did I ask you to "admire" any one? Although it would be appropriate if you examined your conscience now and again as I am sure fixating on one or two odious posting phrases you use to denigrate the parents of a missing child cannot be good for you.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on May 31, 2015, 09:09:29 PM
Okay. Enough. This is bordering on Libel. Get back to The Topic.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 31, 2015, 10:03:52 PM
Would you kindly furnish us with some examples of these unturned stones?
Yup. Did one today on the blog.
The two free mobiles that turned up on 4th May 2007 in Portimão could well contain a treasure trove of information.
This information could well point to guilt, or to innocence, or of course to neither.
David Payne's free mobile might well have been picked up Leicestershire Police, and be part of the SY phone analysis. Or it may not.
The McCann's free mobile could point to, or to rule out, all sorts of vague broo-ha-ha around the case.
Rumour 1. Gerry plants body in flowerbed of Urbanisation Melody. UM is in a different cell on the network to Luz. I have seen nothing in the PJ phone traffic analysis to place him in UM.
Rumour 2. Gerry uses the Scenic to dispose of Madeleine's body in .... well take your pick on this one. Huge chunks of Portugal and Spain. I have seen nothing in the PJ analysis to suggest this.
The main PJ analysis made an assumption - that any period of phone silence over 30 minutes was potentially significant. This on the basis that such a time period allows travel to Burgau in the west, Almádena to the north west, and Oxiáxere, to the east. And back again, whilst all the time looking like being in Luz.
If the traffic between two said mobiles establishes some weird diversion somewhere, it points to guilt. If the traffic fills in some of the half hour gaps, it can increase the evidence of innocence.
It could do neither, and since I don't know where the McCanns free mobile ended up, I can at this time only speculate.
However, the McCanns know where that free mobile ended up. It is just one unturned stone that could advance the investigation. (And no, I don't know whether SY has had access to that phone.)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 10:25:20 PM
No need to be so stroppy! I didn't ask for a list so how about just giving me one example of something they haven't told us that would make you doubt them less.
I'll give just one subject I would like answers to. Did Madeleine have a coloboma or not? If she did, was it medically diagnosed and tested. If she did not, why was it publicised when she disappeared?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on May 31, 2015, 10:26:16 PM
The two free mobiles that turned up on 4th May 2007 in Portimão could well contain a treasure trove of information.
This information could well point to guilt, or to innocence, or of course to neither.
David Payne's free mobile might well have been picked up Leicestershire Police, and be part of the SY phone analysis. Or it may not.
The McCann's free mobile could point to, or to rule out, all sorts of vague broo-ha-ha around the case.
Rumour 1. Gerry plants body in flowerbed of Urbanisation Melody. UM is in a different cell on the network to Luz. I have seen nothing in the PJ phone traffic analysis to place him in UM.
Rumour 2. Gerry uses the Scenic to dispose of Madeleine's body in .... well take your pick on this one. Huge chunks of Portugal and Spain. I have seen nothing in the PJ analysis to suggest this.
The main PJ analysis made an assumption - that any period of phone silence over 30 minutes was potentially significant. This on the basis that such a time period allows travel to Burgau in the west, Almádena to the north west, and Oxiáxere, to the east. And back again, whilst all the time looking like being in Luz.
If the traffic between two said mobiles establishes some weird diversion somewhere, it points to guilt. If the traffic fills in some of the half hour gaps, it can increase the evidence of innocence.
It could do neither, and since I don't know where the McCanns free mobile ended up, I can at this time only speculate.
However, the McCanns know where that free mobile ended up. It is just one unturned stone that could advance the investigation. (And no, I don't know whether SY has had access to that phone.)
This is an interesting post. But it isn't On Topic.
I will be removing Off Topic Posts from now on.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 31, 2015, 10:30:29 PM
I'll give just one subject I would like answers to. Did Madeleine have a coloboma or not? If she did, was it medically diagnosed and tested. If she did not, why was it publicised when she disappeared?
Madeleine clearly did have a noticeable mark in her eye which was used in publicity as a distinguishing mark, no mystery there. Whether it was a coloboma or not has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on why or how she disappeared. Her parents have already spoken about this at some length. I'm bemused to hear that answers to the questions you posed above would make you doubt the McCanns less tbh.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 10:51:44 PM
Madeleine clearly did have a noticeable mark in her eye which was used in publicity as a distinguishing mark, no mystery there. Whether it was a coloboma or not has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on why or how she disappeared. Her parents have already spoken about this at some length. I'm bemused to hear that answers to the questions you posed above would make you doubt the McCanns less tbh.
Whether it was a coloboma or not is very important. It was used as a distinguishing feature in posters and was mentioned on 'The Lancet' website. It was 'a good marketing ploy' according to her father, even at the risk of someone harming her or her eye as a result.
Coloboma's are a serious problem. A child with a coloboma has many check-ups to make sure their sight is OK. Other problems are associated with them also. After publicising the coloboma so much, the parents later told Piers Morgan that they hadn't made much of it because it was only a fleck. They even said it probably wasn't one after all.
Due to the medical ramifications a parent would know for sure whether a child had a coloboma or not. That's why the coloboma interests me. Madeleine either had one or she didn't, but the parents let everyone, including The Lancet, believe that she did have one. Why would they do that if she didn't? Why not be totally honest and say it was a small fleck at the beginning?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 31, 2015, 11:09:48 PM
Whether it was a coloboma or not is very important. It was used as a distinguishing feature in posters and was mentioned on 'The Lancet' website. It was 'a good marketing ploy' according to her father, even at the risk of someone harming her or her eye as a result.
Coloboma's are a serious problem. A child with a coloboma has many check-ups to make sure their sight is OK. Other problems are associated with them also. After publicising the coloboma so much, the parents later told Piers Morgan that they hadn't made much of it because it was only a fleck. They even said it probably wasn't one after all.
Due to the medical ramifications a parent would know for sure whether a child had a coloboma or not. That's why the coloboma interests me. Madeleine either had one or she didn't, but the parents let everyone, including The Lancet, believe that she did have one. Why would they do that if she didn't? Why not be totally honest and say it was a small fleck at the beginning?
Why not look at this from another perspective: why if they were involved in Madeleine's disappearance would they have any reason to lie about whether or not the fleck in her eye (which they chose to draw to the world's attention and which did actually exist) was a coloboma? There is no logical reason, hence this is not an important issue in determining the facts of Madeleine's disappearance. Now if you want to argue against this I feel a new thread may be in order as this is way off topic.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2015, 11:37:12 PM
Why not look at this from another perspective: why if they were involved in Madeleine's disappearance would they have any reason to lie about whether or not the fleck in her eye (which they chose to draw to the world's attention and which did actually exist) was a coloboma? There is no logical reason, hence this is not an important issue in determining the facts of Madeleine's disappearance. Now if you want to argue against this I feel a new thread may be in order as this is way off topic.
The thread is about whether the parents of a missing child matter. My stance is that the parents of a stolen child matter because they have had a child stolen and must be frantic with worry about where she could be and what happened to her. Madeleine is a missing child though, and we don't know how she came to be missing. The parents decided she had been stolen but failed to convince everyone that this is what happened. In due course they became suspects in the investigation due to doubts about their story. One of the reasons why I have doubts is that they said she had a quite serious defect in her eye. They later changed this to a barely noticeable fleck, and denied publicising it. For me, this points to the parents being economical with the truth. Complete openness and honesty would have been more helpful to their cause. Why would they lie about the coloboma? I can think of a couple of reasons. It was a good marketing ploy, and any child without one could be automatically excluded.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on May 31, 2015, 11:47:27 PM
They have given many interviews, but have only been asked difficult questions by one interviewer; Sandra Felgueiras. Each time she asked a difficult question the answer was either flippant or deflected, never answered seriously. They could start there, perhaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyjVmxWzDY
Only an abservation, but how interesting "Felguiras". Yet another Jewish / Hebrew name.
Virtually everyone in this case seems to have a Jewish bloodline.
Also the missing 7 children ... [not sure about Rene Hassee] .... they seem to have Jewish / Hebrew names
Madeleine BETH
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: misty on June 01, 2015, 01:07:41 AM
I find it very sad that the funding campaign set up recently to help with the personal expenses incurred by the parent of a missing British child has so far raised less than £3000, yet the ex-PJ officer who was the author of his own downfall has attracted over £25000 in hard cash. Why is Amaral worth more to the GBP than Kerry Needham?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 01, 2015, 01:25:22 AM
I find it very sad that the funding campaign set up recently to help with the personal expenses incurred by the parent of a missing British child has so far raised less than £3000, yet the ex-PJ officer who was the author of his own downfall has attracted over £25000 in hard cash. Why is Amaral worth more to the GBP than Kerry Needham?
8@??)( And a bent cop at that.
One wonders why.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pegasus on June 01, 2015, 02:17:09 AM
I find it very sad that the funding campaign set up recently to help with the personal expenses incurred by the parent of a missing British child has so far raised less than £3000, yet the ex-PJ officer who was the author of his own downfall has attracted over £25000 in hard cash. Why is Amaral worth more to the GBP than Kerry Needham?
If a Senior Investigating Officer had been removed from solving that Greek case and was then sued by a parent and attempts made to destroy him, I would donate to his defence.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: misty on June 01, 2015, 02:39:23 AM
If a Senior Investigating Officer had been removed from solving that Greek case and was then sued by a parent and attempts made to destroy him, I would donate to his defence.
You only sue if there is good reason to sue. The Needhams would have been pursuing the Greek police authority rather than any one individual, don't you think?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pegasus on June 01, 2015, 03:21:18 AM
You only sue if there is good reason to sue. The Needhams would have been pursuing the Greek police authority rather than any one individual, don't you think?
What I mean is KN has never sued the greek police SIO who investigated her case.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 08:17:44 AM
What I mean is KN has never sued the greek police SIO who investigated her case.
As far as I am aware Kerry has never sued anyone. Then again perhaps that's because any donations she has received have actually been used to look for Ben.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 11:52:44 AM
The thread is about whether the parents of a missing child matter. My stance is that the parents of a stolen child matter because they have had a child stolen and must be frantic with worry about where she could be and what happened to her. Madeleine is a missing child though, and we don't know how she came to be missing. The parents decided she had been stolen but failed to convince everyone that this is what happened. In due course they became suspects in the investigation due to doubts about their story. One of the reasons why I have doubts is that they said she had a quite serious defect in her eye. They later changed this to a barely noticeable fleck, and denied publicising it. For me, this points to the parents being economical with the truth. Complete openness and honesty would have been more helpful to their cause. Why would they lie about the coloboma? I can think of a couple of reasons. It was a good marketing ploy, and any child without one could be automatically excluded.
There are a couple of myths in your post, however this is not the place to discuss them, and frankly this issue has been discussed to death (as have all aspects of this case) and it really is beyond tiresome that you can't find something a bit more worthwhile to do with your time other than continually criticise the parents of a missing child simply because they failed to convince YOU of their honesty. Remember Lindy Chamberlain? Did she matter any less because she failed to convince certain people of her innocence at the time?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2015, 12:03:26 PM
What I mean is KN has never sued the greek police SIO who investigated her case.
Might that not be because no senior investigating Greek officer wrote a book accusing her of guilt in her son's disappearance and who went on to make a media career for himself based on promoting her alleged guilt.
While Kerry and her family were struggling to keep the search for Ben going ... unlike the McCanns, they were not diverted by struggling against accusations of involvement in their child's disappearance and disposal by a senior police officer who had worked on the case.
Mr Amaral's actions have been unethical to say the least ... yet he is lauded for them??????
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 01, 2015, 12:14:14 PM
Might that not be because no senior investigating Greek officer wrote a book accusing her of guilt in her son's disappearance and who went on to make a media career for himself based on promoting her alleged guilt.
While Kerry and her family were struggling to keep the search for Ben going ... unlike the McCanns, they were not diverted by struggling against accusations of involvement in their child's disappearance and disposal by a senior police officer who had worked on the case.
Mr Amaral's actions have been unethical to say the least ... yet he is lauded for them??????
Perhaps Kerry has never been diverted because no police force has ever believed that she 'disappeared' her child.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2015, 01:53:40 PM
There are a couple of myths in your post, however this is not the place to discuss them, and frankly this issue has been discussed to death (as have all aspects of this case) and it really is beyond tiresome that you can't find something a bit more worthwhile to do with your time other than continually criticise the parents of a missing child simply because they failed to convince YOU of their honesty. Remember Lindy Chamberlain? Did she matter any less because she failed to convince certain people of her innocence at the time?
I find it beyond tiresome that some people can't find something more worthwhile to do with their time than continually support the parents of a missing child simply because they have convinced THEM of their honesty. Same game, different outlook is all. Until it emerges why and how the child went missing the debate looks set to continue. Anyone finding it too tiresome does have a choice, of course. Withholding support and criticising are two different things it may interest you to know. As are pointing out inconsistencies and criticising. Until we know what happened comparing this case to others achieves what? If Madeleine McCann was abducted her parents deserve all the sympathy we can muster.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 01:58:27 PM
I find it beyond tiresome that some people can't find something more worthwhile to do with their time than continually support the parents of a missing child simply because they have convinced THEM of their honesty. Same game, different outlook is all. Until it emerges why and how the child went missing the debate looks set to continue. Anyone finding it too tiresome does have a choice, of course. Withholding support and criticising are two different things it may interest you to know. As are pointing out inconsistencies and criticising. Until we know what happened comparing this case to others achieves what? If Madeleine McCann was abducted her parents deserve all the sympathy we can muster.
It will be a bit late for that from those who have spent the last 8 years slagging them off, not that I believe for one moment that any sympathy would be forth-coming from the majority of "sceptics" if and when it is established beyond doubt that Madeleine WAS abducted by a stranger.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 01, 2015, 01:59:45 PM
You do have to admire the tenacity of those prepared to spend so many hours on board, posting upward of 10 posts a day, every day, for such little effect. 8(0(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 02:00:52 PM
PS: yes, how very tiresome it is supporting the parents of a missing child, far better I'm sure to be doubting them and slagging them off, that's way more worthwhile!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 02:02:34 PM
You do have to admire the tenacity of those prepared to spend so many hours on board, posting upward of 10 posts a day, every day, for such little effect. 8(0(*
If that's a dig at me (which obviously it is) you should know that I don't post on this board for effect, or to effect anything or anybody. Hope that's clear now. 8(0(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 01, 2015, 02:02:49 PM
PS: yes, how very tiresome it is supporting the parents of a missing child, far better I'm sure to be doubting them and slagging them off, that's way more worthwhile!
Couldn't have put it better, myself @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 02:04:59 PM
PS: yes, how very tiresome it is supporting the parents of a missing child, far better I'm sure to be doubting them and slagging them off, that's way more worthwhile!
I think it's sweet that some people care so much about the reputation and feelings of a couple they don't know and have no idea what they're like. So much do they care that anyone who doesn't share their devotion is labelled '[ censored word ]''troll' 'stupid' 'deluded'. How is it that people can care so much for strangers and hate other strangers so much? Is it the wierdness of being anonymous on the internet? I think those who defend people they don't know may be mistaken or a tad naive, but I prefer not to indulge in schoolyard type name-calling. Obviously the parents of a missing child matter to some people very much, even though no-one knows why or how she came to be missing.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2015, 03:23:41 PM
I think if you asked the McCann's the question 'The parents of a missing child don't matter' they would probably say they don't care if they don't matter as long as people care about Madeleine and remember that she is out there somewhere waiting to be found.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 03:25:48 PM
I think if you asked the McCann's the question 'The parents of a missing child don't matter' they would probably say they don't care if they don't matter as long as people care about Madeleine and remember that she is out there somewhere waiting to be found.
Waiting to be found alive ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 03:32:21 PM
I think it's sweet that some people care so much about the reputation and feelings of a couple they don't know and have no idea what they're like. So much do they care that anyone who doesn't share their devotion is labelled '[ censored word ]''troll' 'stupid' 'deluded'. How is it that people can care so much for strangers and hate other strangers so much? Is it the wierdness of being anonymous on the internet? I think those who defend people they don't know may be mistaken or a tad naive, but I prefer not to indulge in schoolyard type name-calling. Obviously the parents of a missing child matter to some people very much, even though no-one knows why or how she came to be missing.
You seem to be running in full deluded mode at the moment so it is difficult to know where to start in correcting you....
so you think those who support amaral are mistaken or naive
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2015, 03:42:09 PM
You seem to be running in full deluded mode at the moment so it is difficult to know where to start in correcting you....
so you think those who support amaral are mistaken or naive
Why would I have to be deluded to wonder why people care so passionately about people they have never met? So passionate are they that anyone who disagrees with them is attacked? I don't think I'm the deluded one @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 03:49:50 PM
Why would I have to be deluded to wonder why people care so passionately about people they have never met? So passionate are they that anyone who disagrees with them is attacked? I don't think I'm the deluded one @)(++(*
not surprisingly you have not addressed the topic of the post......
Maddie had a slight fleck...coloboma...in one eye. She did not suffer from Coloboma Syndrome..nothing suspicious there ...another delusion on your behalf
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 03:58:04 PM
Why would I have to be deluded to wonder why people care so passionately about people they have never met? So passionate are they that anyone who disagrees with them is attacked? I don't think I'm the deluded one @)(++(*
You are deluded to think I care passionately about the McCanns. I care passionately about justice and fairness. I detest thuggish policemen like amaral.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 04:16:09 PM
You are deluded to think I care passionately about the McCanns. I care passionately about justice and fairness. I detest thuggish policemen like amaral.
In what way was he a 'thug' ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 04:17:43 PM
not surprisingly you have not addressed the topic of the post......
Maddie had a slight fleck...coloboma...in one eye. She did not suffer from Coloboma Syndrome..nothing suspicious there ...another delusion on your behalf
The Lancet said she had a coloboma? Speaking of the topic.........said the person who is now discussing Amaral @)(++(*
The parents of an abducted child are deserving of sympathy. The parents of a missing child may or may not be, depending on why she went missing.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2015, 04:40:16 PM
The Lancet said she had a coloboma? Speaking of the topic.........said the person who is now discussing Amaral @)(++(*
The parents of an abducted child are deserving of sympathy. The parents of a missing child may or may not be, depending on why she went missing.
Interesting ... you know nothing ... but you condone a mob acting as judge and jury using the internet as their own personal court, making your own small contribution by discussing the parents of a missing child in a pejorative fashion.
When dislike of parents impinges onto the child by indulging in active campaigns to obstruct whenever possible an inquiry into what happened to her I think the bounds of decency have been breached.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 04:49:50 PM
I think it's sweet that some people care so much about the reputation and feelings of a couple they don't know and have no idea what they're like. So much do they care that anyone who doesn't share their devotion is labelled '[ censored word ]''troll' 'stupid' 'deluded'. How is it that people can care so much for strangers and hate other strangers so much? Is it the wierdness of being anonymous on the internet? I think those who defend people they don't know may be mistaken or a tad naive, but I prefer not to indulge in schoolyard type name-calling. Obviously the parents of a missing child matter to some people very much, even though no-one knows why or how she came to be missing.
How sweet it is to be patronised by you-be-do-be-do!
Have I ever called you a [ censored word ] or a troll or stupid or deluded?
Have I ever told you that I hate you? 8**8:/:
Would it make any difference if I said I have no particular strong emotional attachment to or feelings for Kate and Gerry or their family (or Madeleine) per se, but that I do have a strenuous objection to those who have taken part a prolonged and concerted witch-hunt which is what has been going on for years against these two parents of a missing child? And no, I know YOU are not part of the witch hunt because you are sweet and lovely and "only asking questions" - my objection is with the people that ARE carrying out the witch-hunt, and also those who like to pretend that the McCanns are not victims of a sustained internet campaign of hate and vitriol, myths and lies.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 05:30:13 PM
How sweet it is to be patronised by you-be-do-be-do!
Have I ever called you a [ censored word ] or a troll or stupid or deluded?
Have I ever told you that I hate you? 8**8:/:
Would it make any difference if I said I have no particular strong emotional attachment to or feelings for Kate and Gerry or their family (or Madeleine) per se, but that I do have a strenuous objection to those who have taken part a prolonged and concerted witch-hunt which is what has been going on for years against these two parents of a missing child? And no, I know YOU are not part of the witch hunt because you are sweet and lovely and "only asking questions" - my objection is with the people that ARE carrying out the witch-hunt, and also those who like to pretend that the McCanns are not victims of a sustained internet campaign of hate and vitriol, myths and lies.
I think you need to direct your opinions to the people whom you strenuously object to then. No point in telling us on this forum. A missing child is not an abducted child by the way. Anything could have happened. Being the parents of a missing child doesn't carry any entitlements whatsoever.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 01, 2015, 05:56:17 PM
I think you need to direct your opinions to the people whom you strenuously object to then. No point in telling us on this forum. A missing child is not an abducted child by the way. Anything could have happened. Being the parents of a missing child doesn't carry any entitlements whatsoever.
I think the overwhelming vast majority have sympathy for the mccanns
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 06:15:02 PM
I think you need to direct your opinions to the people whom you strenuously object to then. No point in telling us on this forum. A missing child is not an abducted child by the way. Anything could have happened. Being the parents of a missing child doesn't carry any entitlements whatsoever.
My opinions are directed at the people to whom I strenuously object. If you object to hearing my views on the matter you can always ignore my posts then you won't have to sully yourself with the things I write and which are clearly beneath your contempt. Being the parents of a missing child should at the very least entitle you to a modicum of sympathy and kindness but I don't expect you to agree.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 06:26:55 PM
Merely the truth of what the ccanns did, and got away with.
Sounds a bit libellous to me ... certainly just one of the opinions which illustrates why Mr Amaral is going to have to start an appeal process ... which however long it takes ... and however long 'go-fund-me' has to run to support him ... is ultimately doomed to failure.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 07:07:53 PM
Sounds a bit libellous to me ... certainly just one of the opinions which illustrates why Mr Amaral is going to have to start an appeal process ... which however long it takes ... and however long 'go-fund-me' has to run to support him ... is ultimately doomed to failure.
Libellous ?
Leaving children by themselves, with infrequent checks, which are not verified, for hours on end.
and of course in an unlocked apartment, whilst they drank and ate. Not forgetting of course, b....r all evidence of abduction.
Just the facts mam.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 07:11:10 PM
Sounds a bit libellous to me ... certainly just one of the opinions which illustrates why Mr Amaral is going to have to start an appeal process ... which however long it takes ... and however long 'go-fund-me' has to run to support him ... is ultimately doomed to failure.
How is your obsession with Amaral coming on? This thread is about Missing children...
Yes Davel, some people do criticize the parents and believe in a stranger abduction, some of them are disgusted at the parents wasting time and money on a law suit... Some other people believe other things, and like to discuss these issues on a forum like this one!
Since there is N O sight or sound about Maddie being found aftr 8 years!- no one can be right or wrong now can they? regardless of their preferred choice of theory.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 07:31:03 PM
The more people know what the mccanns really did, the better.
everyone knows the mccanns left the children while they dined 50 mtrs away.....SY have said they are not suspects....SY are in Portugal trying to find the abductor...those are the facts
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 08:19:18 PM
everyone knows the mccanns left the children while they dined 50 mtrs away.....SY have said they are not suspects....SY are in Portugal trying to find the abductor...those are the facts
Wrong dave.
THE KEY FACT IS THAT THE CRIME IS UNDETERMINED.
Try to remember that salient point.
N.B. SY Have found NOTHING.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 08:38:19 PM
How many even care? They do believe their own PR... It is embarrassing.
Another bad idea making them ambassadors. I think it was due to their high profile and access to the 'good and great' Money. All charities need money they have high over heads= executives etc...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 08:55:28 PM
everyone knows the mccanns left the children while they dined 50 mtrs away.....SY have said they are not suspects....SY are in Portugal trying to find the abductor...those are the facts
11th August 2007
Quote
Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa said Kate and Gerry McCann were not being considered as suspects following recent rumours they were under suspicion.
7th September 2007
Quote
During further questioning of Mr and Mrs McCann, detectives make them both "arguidos".
4th July 2013
Quote
Madeleine’s parents Gerry and Kate, as well as their travelling friends known as the ‘Tapas Seven’, have all been ruled out as suspects.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2015, 08:58:28 PM
I think the overwhelming vast majority have sympathy for the mccanns
I have sympathy for them for a nanosecond but then I remember how they left three young toddlers alone in a foreign holiday resort while they went out to socialize. Thereafter...well we all know what happened next.
Pity would be a better emotion Dave.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 01, 2015, 09:15:36 PM
everyone knows the mccanns left the children while they dined 50 mtrs away.....SY have said they are not suspects....SY are in Portugal trying to find the abductor...those are the facts
Fiona only found about the unlocked door from Kate just before Maddy disappeared.
It did surprise me a bit with Kate, because I think, you know, she is, between her and Gerry, they are very different, she is very cautious. (FP)
Anything out of the norm is investigated.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2015, 09:19:26 PM
I have sympathy for them for a nanosecond but then I remember how they left three young toddlers alone in a foreign holiday resort while they went out to socialize. Thereafter...well we all know what happened next.
Pity would be a better emotion Dave.
I have no feelings either for Mr Amaral or for the Drs McCann.
I am one of those who reserve emotion for my nearest and dearest.
I do however despise the activities of those who have made it their business to do their utmost, sometimes using the most despicable methods possible, to denigrate the parents of a missing child.
The fact that they build their case on lies and innuendo shows they have no case. IMO of course.
The fact they have sustained and justified it amongst themselves for over eight years is something I find incomprehensible.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 01, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
everyone knows the mccanns left the children while they dined 50 mtrs away.....SY have said they are not suspects....SY are in Portugal trying to find the abductor...those are the facts
The mccanns and co., were drinking.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 01, 2015, 09:33:32 PM
I have no feelings either for Mr Amaral or for the Drs McCann.
I am one of those who reserve emotion for my nearest and dearest.
I do however despise the activities of those who have made it their business to do their utmost, sometimes using the most despicable methods possible, to denigrate the parents of a missing child.
The fact that they build their case on lies and innuendo shows they have no case. IMO of course.
The fact they have sustained and justified it amongst themselves for over eight years is something I find incomprehensible.
The bit I have emboldened is not restricted to this case. Sadly it is not unusual behaviour among human beings so what made you pick this particular case to major on?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 09:39:45 PM
The bit I have emboldened is not restricted to this case. Sadly it is not unusual behaviour among human beings so what made you pick this particular case to major on?
can you give another example in the UK that has anywhere close the number of posts
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 01, 2015, 09:55:58 PM
can you give another example in the UK that has anywhere close the number of posts
Oh right, the decision is taken on the basis of how many posts there are? yeah cool. I guessed it was b****r all to do with justice by the behaviour displayed.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
Oh right, the decision is taken on the basis of how many posts there are? yeah cool. I guessed it was b****r all to do with justice by the behaviour displayed.
justice is ignored by many on this forum
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2015, 10:18:18 PM
Oh right, the decision is taken on the basis of how many posts there are? yeah cool. I guessed it was b****r all to do with justice by the behaviour displayed.
We have Madeleine McCann and her parents and the eight year vile campaign directed at them ... then we have ........ and his\her parents and the ........ year vile campaign directed at them.
What made me pick this particular case to major on you asked ~ fill in the dots and direct me to the requisite hounder sites and I may check that one or those out too.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 01, 2015, 10:30:56 PM
We have Madeleine McCann and her parents and the eight year vile campaign directed at them ... then we have ........ and his\her parents and the ........ year vile campaign directed at them.
What made me pick this particular case to major on you asked ~ fill in the dots and direct me to the requisite hounder sites and I may check that one or those out too.
Given you are so hot on justice for all you shouldn't need directions from me.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 01, 2015, 10:33:52 PM
I base my feelings on how I would feel if it were me, in so far as this is possible. I think this is called Empathy.
I wonder how many others have thought of this.
I think that applies to both sides. Those with doubts struggle to understand the actions of the McCanns as this is not how they feel they would act themselves.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 09:20:06 AM
I think that applies to both sides. Those with doubts struggle to understand the actions of the McCanns as this is not how they feel they would act themselves.
A very early example of something which raises questions is Kate telling us 'it felt so safe' 'I never had to think twice about leaving the chidren' then at around 11pm Gerald McCann is on the phone saying 'there's paedophile gangs in Portugal'. Who told him that? If he knew about these gangs why didn't he take more care? Did Kate know these gangs were around? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2015, 09:21:33 AM
I think that applies to both sides. Those with doubts struggle to understand the actions of the McCanns as this is not how they feel they would act themselves.
But they don't actually know how they would have acted, do they. The thought of losing one of my children in similar circumstances paralyses me, my fault or not. I simply don't believe that The McCanns harmed their daughter or disposed of her body. So they are left in an agony of never ending grief.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 02, 2015, 09:36:53 AM
IMO - Empathy is putting yourself in another persons shoes and looking at things from their point of view. This leads to questions like:-
(1) Would I allow/encourage my elderly mother to be part of a criminal cover up of the death of someone else's child - which could end up with her being arrested and imprisoned in a foreign country?
I know I couldn't do that - and I don't believe Fiona Payne or any loving daughter could either.
Or:
(2) 'Could I and my friends casually go and publically enjoy a nice meal and exchange banter - all knowing that my daughter had just died!! and that in an hour's time the place would be crawling with police and we were all going to have to tell a pack of lies to them?'
No I couldn't - and I don't know anyone who could. Apart from anything else - 'eating' would be a sheer impossibility in those circumstances - the fear of what was about to happen would see to that.
IMO anyone who thinks the McCanns and their friends could do any of the above has little or no ability to empathise.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 02, 2015, 09:39:43 AM
I think that applies to both sides. Those with doubts struggle to understand the actions of the McCanns as this is not how they feel they would act themselves.
So you find it difficult to have any sympathy for people who behave differently to you and who, through their own stupidity or thoughtlessness, end up suffering a terrible tragedy? Maybe that's the difference between the two "sides"...? One "side" thinks "there but for the grace of God" and admits that they too could, through their own thoughtlessness and stupidity, find themselves in a similar situation, whilst the other side refuses to countenance the idea that they could ever do anything stupid or foolish and that people who do such things deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 02, 2015, 10:08:36 AM
So you find it difficult to have any sympathy for people who behave differently to you and who, through their own stupidity or thoughtlessness, end up suffering a terrible tragedy? Maybe that's the difference between the two "sides"...? One "side" thinks "there but for the grace of God" and admits that they too could, through their own thoughtlessness and stupidity, find themselves in a similar situation, whilst the other side refuses to countenance the idea that they could ever do anything stupid or foolish and that people who do such things deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions.
I don't think there is any 'Maybe' about it Alfred - I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Some take the.... 'You've made your bed now lie in it' ....stance
and others (as you say) take the ..'There for the Grace of God go I'.. stance'
For various reasons we don't all have the same levels of empathy or compassion - and that is not a criticism it's simply a fact of life. IMO.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 02, 2015, 10:09:23 AM
A very early example of something which raises questions is Kate telling us 'it felt so safe' 'I never had to think twice about leaving the chidren' then at around 11pm Gerald McCann is on the phone saying 'there's paedophile gangs in Portugal'. Who told him that? If he knew about these gangs why didn't he take more care? Did Kate know these gangs were around? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm
Reads like a fantasy film script. How do you control people? By fear. I can't wait for the next twist @)(++(*
Kate McCann: "He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."
You won't control Amaral or the dogs.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2015, 10:11:32 AM
IMO - Empathy is putting yourself in another persons shoes and looking at things from their point of view. This leads to questions like:-
(1) Would I allow/encourage my elderly mother to be part of a criminal cover up of the death of someone else's child - which could end up with her being arrested and imprisoned in a foreign country?
I know I couldn't do that - and I don't believe Fiona Payne or any loving daughter could either.
Or:
(2) 'Could I and my friends casually go and publically enjoy a nice meal and exchange banter - all knowing that my daughter had just died!! and that in an hour's time the place would be crawling with police and we were all going to have to tell a pack of lies to them?'
No I couldn't - and I don't know anyone who could. Apart from anything else - 'eating' would be a sheer impossibility in those circumstances - the fear of what was about to happen would see to that.
IMO anyone who thinks the McCanns and their friends could do any of the above has little or no ability to empathise.
This is it, in my opinion. "Inability to Empathise." Not that this is anyone's actual fault. You can either do it, or you can't. I do it only too well.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 10:24:03 AM
I learned a lot about about empathy once I had children. I changed completely and understood that my wants and needs had to come second. I missed out on fun because I didn't have a baby-sitter. I missed out on new clothes because the children needed something. My number one concern was ensuring my children's needs were satisfied and they were as happy as I could make them. My reward was doing things with them, watching their personalities develop and enjoying seeing them learn new things.
So my first problem is this; had my child asked why I didn't come when she and her brother were crying I would have been upset. I would have knelt down and hugged her and said sorry straight away. Knowing I'd gone out and left them alone my guilt would have made me stop that immediately. I would have either taken the children to the night creche, hired a baby-sitter or stayed in for the rest of the holiday. That's one reason why empathy with the McCann parents is difficult for me, we're just so different.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 02, 2015, 10:31:13 AM
A great argument. I still can't believe they never went with others to watch the children sailing for the first time that morning and why they didn't go to the beach later with the others is even more strange. What was really going on that day?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 02, 2015, 10:37:59 AM
I learned a lot about about empathy once I had children. I changed completely and understood that my wants and needs had to come second. I missed out on fun because I didn't have a baby-sitter. I missed out on new clothes because the children needed something. My number one concern was ensuring my children's needs were satisfied and they were as happy as I could make them. My reward was doing things with them, watching their personalities develop and enjoying seeing them learn new things.
So my first problem is this; had my child asked why I didn't come when she and her brother were crying I would have been upset. I would have knelt down and hugged her and said sorry straight away. Knowing I'd gone out and left them alone my guilt would have made me stop that immediately. I would have either taken the children to the night creche, hired a baby-sitter or stayed in for the rest of the holiday. That's one reason why empathy with the McCann parents is difficult for me, we're just so different.
As Kate McCann revealed this detail to the judging world (she could have chosen not to) does this not indicate an honest rather than a deceitful nature?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 02, 2015, 10:46:46 AM
As Kate McCann revealed this detail to the judging world (she could have chosen not to) does this not indicate an honest rather than a deceitful nature?
It is not believable is it?
Relative to the allegation that Madeleine made regarding Sean's crying, I do not have any idea what possessed Madeleine to make such an affirmation and also would state that Madeleine had a very fertile imagination. (JK)
Are you sure it's Madeleine with the very fertile imagination?
I had a conversation with Kate regarding care of the children in particular, leaving the children to cry until exhaustion. (JK)
How bloody interesting.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 10:51:31 AM
A great argument. I still can't believe they never went with others to watch the children sailing for the first time that morning and why they didn't go to the beach later with the others is even more strange. What was really going on that day?
The rest of the group seemed to strike a better balance during the day. Some 'me' time and some 'family' time. The fathers seemed quite keen to spend time with their children, which they didn't get the time to at home, particularly Russell O'Brien. He was a bit disappointed that his child liked the creche so much. Only one couple used every single opportunity to use the creche and showed no desire to spend any 'quality family time' with their children. I was present at most of the 'firsts' in my children's lives, and enjoyed their pleasure immensely.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2015, 10:59:57 AM
So you find it difficult to have any sympathy for people who behave differently to you and who, through their own stupidity or thoughtlessness, end up suffering a terrible tragedy? Maybe that's the difference between the two "sides"...? One "side" thinks "there but for the grace of God" and admits that they too could, through their own thoughtlessness and stupidity, find themselves in a similar situation, whilst the other side refuses to countenance the idea that they could ever do anything stupid or foolish and that people who do such things deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions.
We are not talking sympathy but empathy. Putting yourself in someone else's place and trying to understand what motivates them.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 02, 2015, 11:00:12 AM
Relative to the allegation that Madeleine made regarding Sean's crying, I do not have any idea what possessed Madeleine to make such an affirmation and also would state that Madeleine had a very fertile imagination. (JK)
Are you sure it's Madeleine with the very fertile imagination?
I had a conversation with Kate regarding care of the children in particular, leaving the children to cry until exhaustion. (JK)
How bloody interesting.
Hang on, so you don't believe Madeleine DID wake up and cry nor that she said what she did to Kate?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 11:01:15 AM
As Kate McCann revealed this detail to the judging world (she could have chosen not to) does this not indicate an honest rather than a deceitful nature?
Some people have suggested it was an attempt to move the crying incident from Tuesday to Wednesday evening in order to suggest that the 'abductor' tried a 'dummy run' the night before, but that is just speculation. Honest? Yes indeed. Why? I can only assume that their approach to parenting was such that she could see nothing strange about her reaction to the crying incident.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 02, 2015, 11:01:27 AM
IMO - Empathy is putting yourself in another persons shoes and looking at things from their point of view. This leads to questions like:-
(1) Would I allow/encourage my elderly mother to be part of a criminal cover up of the death of someone else's child - which could end up with her being arrested and imprisoned in a foreign country?
I know I couldn't do that - and I don't believe Fiona Payne or any loving daughter could either.
Or:
(2) 'Could I and my friends casually go and publically enjoy a nice meal and exchange banter - all knowing that my daughter had just died!! and that in an hour's time the place would be crawling with police and we were all going to have to tell a pack of lies to them?'
No I couldn't - and I don't know anyone who could. Apart from anything else - 'eating' would be a sheer impossibility in those circumstances - the fear of what was about to happen would see to that.
IMO anyone who thinks the McCanns and their friends could do any of the above has little or no ability to empathise.
Every one of your "how could anyone" emotionally loaded appeals above ............
i.e. the condoning of the behaviour of others ; the ability to eat and enjoy a relaxed meal complete with jolly banter;......could be applied to the notion of empathy with the potentially waking and distressed child coming........(or not)..... from the adults.
"How could anyone," indeed.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: John on June 02, 2015, 11:09:36 AM
So you can have sympathy for people who make bad decisions and suffer a tragedy but no empathy, is that what you're saying?
I don't believe one can have empathy until all the facts are known. I have pity for them all, both sides, and the position they find themselves in which I do believe was not of their own doing. Circumstances have conspired to create a situation which neither side really want to find themselves in imo.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carew on June 02, 2015, 11:18:21 AM
So you find it difficult to have any sympathy for people who behave differently to you and who, through their own stupidity or thoughtlessness, end up suffering a terrible tragedy? Maybe that's the difference between the two "sides"...? One "side" thinks "there but for the grace of God" and admits that they too could, through their own thoughtlessness and stupidity, find themselves in a similar situation, whilst the other side refuses to countenance the idea that they could ever do anything stupid or foolish and that people who do such things deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions.
I don`t think your "two sides" stance is as clear cut as that.
I suspect there were many on the side claiming the high moral ground in the sympathy/empathy stakes who did not apply it to the late Brenda Leyland.............and possibly would not apply it should anything befall a few others prominent in the "behave differently from you" category!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 02, 2015, 11:27:06 AM
Given you are so hot on justice for all you shouldn't need directions from me.
In other words you are unable to direct me to other sites where the parents of missing children have been subjected to anything approaching the vituperation of the eight year assault Madeleine McCann's parents have endured ... for the simple reason there are none.
That gives me pause for thought ... that there are those who revel in the situation without thought for all the ramifications there may be to Madeleine's nearest and dearest family and friends shows a side of human nature best avoided.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 11:38:04 AM
So you can have sympathy for people who make bad decisions and suffer a tragedy but no empathy, is that what you're saying?
I can sympathise with the Mccanns. Their daughter disappeared and they became suspects. The reasons why they were suspected are all there in the files. They weren't charged because the evidence against them was not sufficient, and their friends refused to return to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction which may have completely cleared them. The McCanns have always maintained their innocence, and have sued anyone who said they weren't innocent. In spite of this, many people still suspect them of something. Unless Operation Grange or the re-opened investigation in Portugal can find some other explanation, the McCanns will always have a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. That must feel pretty bad.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2015, 11:48:42 AM
I can sympathise with the Mccanns. Their daughter disappeared and they became suspects. The reasons why they were suspected are all there in the files. They weren't charged because the evidence against them was not sufficient, and their friends refused to return to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction which may have completely cleared them. The McCanns have always maintained their innocence, and have sued anyone who said they weren't innocent. In spite of this, many people still suspect them of something. Unless Operation Grange or the re-opened investigation in Portugal can find some other explanation, the McCanns will always have a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. That must feel pretty bad.
Probably not as bad as some might hope. They know that they are innocent. They will never be charged, so never found guilty. So all they have to deal with is the loss of their daughter. Suspicion by some people On Line will mean nothing to them now.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 02, 2015, 11:51:44 AM
In other words you are unable to direct me to other sites where the parents of missing children have been subjected to anything approaching the vituperation of the eight year assault Madeleine McCann's parents have endured ... for the simple reason there are none.
That gives me pause for thought ... that there are those who revel in the situation without thought for all the ramifications there may be to Madeleine's nearest and dearest family and friends shows a side of human nature best avoided.
Long before 2007 I had worked out there are some pretty unpleasant people about who revel in the misfortunes of others, revel in being unpleasant to those perceived as "different from us" and revel in being unpleasant to those having a different viewpoint. Why be surprised it has spilled over into the McCann case? it has been happening for centuries. I think it is reprehensible that some post things the way they do against the McCanns but equally reprehensible is the behaviour of some on the "other side". In my book they are as bad as each other with no redeeming features. They would all be as "happy" debating the merits of different types of clothesline as long as it offered the opportunity to be unpleasant and form pointless little gangs giving each other high fives End of rant 8(*(
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: lordpookles on June 02, 2015, 12:28:44 PM
Lindy Chamberlain seemed to have a worse ride then the McCanns..
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 02, 2015, 12:40:42 PM
Probably not as bad as some might hope. They know that they are innocent. They will never be charged, so never found guilty. So all they have to deal with is the loss of their daughter. Suspicion by some people On Line will mean nothing to them now.
They didn't actually say that though did they. They either said there is no evidence to implicate them or explained how it couldn't be them because they had an alibi at the time she disappeared.
For Maria Bandeirinha, the owner of a rent a car business, the parents' attitude is incriminating. "Kate passed by my door, laughing her head off, with a friend, days after her daughter disappeared. What mother has a child in an unknown location and feels like laughing? Looking back, I don't even know how she managed to convince the people that her daughter had been stolen from her… Just compare her with Rui Pedro's mother. I'm not going any further, because I'm a mother myself and I cannot imagine life for one minute, if I lost my daughter." Maria Bandeirinha adds: "Sometimes, popular justice would be a good thing. It would be swifter and easier. Nobody believes a word they say anymore. They still have some support in church, but the priests also know very well what happened that night."
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9333.html
"If she died when we were in the apartment or fell and did something why would we cover that up?"
Many would be outraged if asked this question.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 12:42:54 PM
Probably not as bad as some might hope. They know that they are innocent. They will never be charged, so never found guilty. So all they have to deal with is the loss of their daughter. Suspicion by some people On Line will mean nothing to them now.
No need for sympathy then? That's good to know.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 02, 2015, 12:46:32 PM
Long before 2007 I had worked out there are some pretty unpleasant people about who revel in the misfortunes of others, revel in being unpleasant to those perceived as "different from us" and revel in being unpleasant to those having a different viewpoint. Why be surprised it has spilled over into the McCann case? it has been happening for centuries. I think it is reprehensible that some post things the way they do against the McCanns but equally reprehensible is the behaviour of some on the "other side". In my book they are as bad as each other with no redeeming features. They would all be as "happy" debating the merits of different types of clothesline as long as it offered the opportunity to be unpleasant and form pointless little gangs giving each other high fives End of rant 8(*(
Chicken and egg situation Alice.
Do you think I would be here putting my oar in if people like you were not here putting their oar in &%+((£
If there was such a strong belief in Justice ... people would be standing back and watching events unfold and giving Madeleine McCann's parents the benefit of the doubt while mulling over that it is probably unprecedented for the perpetrators of a crime to draw attention to themselves in their efforts to have the investigation into the crime by, not one, but two National police forces reopened.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 02, 2015, 12:46:56 PM
Are there people who would prefer it that Dr McCann did serious jail time in a foreign prison before being found innocent?
Lindy Chamberlain went through due process ~ which got it wrong ~ not the kangaroo court of public opinion.
From the little I know of the case I've heard she went through a similar experience as the McCanns regarding public opinion, so not just public opinion but the authorities got it wrong too. Look at Colin Stagg also.
Regarding the jail time - I can only speak for myself but of course not. If they were taken to court and I was on the jury and they presented the info we know of I wouldn't even consider a guilty verdict.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2015, 01:03:10 PM
That is not what I said, and well you know it. So don't play games with my words.
One might also assume from your post that you hope they are suffering from the suspicion that certain people are trying to heap on their heads.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying Eleanor. I thought you were saying that as they know they're innocent they won't care what people online think. If they don't care then they don't need sympathy I thought. You may assume anything you wish, but assuming something doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2015, 01:05:59 PM
I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying Eleanor. I thought you were saying that as they know they're innocent they won't care what people online think. If they don't care then they don't need sympathy I thought. You may assume anything you wish, but assuming something doesn't make it true.
Your apology is accepted.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 02, 2015, 03:03:53 PM
Do you think I would be here putting my oar in if people like you were not here putting their oar in &%+((£
If there was such a strong belief in Justice ... people would be standing back and watching events unfold and giving Madeleine McCann's parents the benefit of the doubt while mulling over that it is probably unprecedented for the perpetrators of a crime to draw attention to themselves in their efforts to have the investigation into the crime by, not one, but two National police forces reopened.
I don't understand the "people like you" comment. Perhaps you will be kind enough to fill in the detail.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2015, 03:11:49 PM
I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying Eleanor. I thought you were saying that as they know they're innocent they won't care what people online think. If they don't care then they don't need sympathy I thought. You may assume anything you wish, but assuming something doesn't make it true.
I would think the McCanns no longer care what a group of people... who are in their opinion a bunch of idiots...think about them. They probably do care about how this might affect the twins
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2015, 03:52:50 PM
I don't understand the "people like you" comment. Perhaps you will be kind enough to fill in the detail.
I thought about the wording of that before posting because I knew you would come back at me on it, as you seem to prefer the fiction you are a canny lad ... I have seen no evidence of that ... so think about it and fill in the detail for yourself.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: John on June 02, 2015, 04:19:04 PM
Members should at least try to get along and stop sniping, it makes the mods lives so much easier. TY
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 03, 2015, 06:50:46 AM
I would think the McCanns no longer care what a group of people... who are in their opinion a bunch of idiots...think about them. They probably do care about how this might affect the twins
I disagree. They will be very disturbed that so many more people have publicly voiced their support for Amaral and his theory than have supported Kates charity run. Has public opinion eventually shifted at last??
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 03, 2015, 07:18:38 AM
I disagree. They will be very disturbed that so many more people have publicly voiced their support for Amaral and his theory than have supported Kates charity run. Has public opinion eventually shifted at last??
They will have realised that the tiny band of doubters on the net are [ moderated ]...they will have realised that whatever people do in life their will be those who criticise..probably because they are so unhappy with their own lives. What has happened now is that the net has given these people a platform
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 08:10:36 AM
I disagree. They will be very disturbed that so many more people have publicly voiced their support for Amaral and his theory than have supported Kates charity run. Has public opinion eventually shifted at last??
Oh please. It's only the usual 1000 "sceptics" who have supported Amaral, even with publicity from the MSM - what percentage of the population is that? Using Kate's cycle ride as a measure of their support is absurd. If the boot was on the other foot and the McCanns were facing financial ruin because of the malevolent agenda of a corrupt ex-cop from Portugal I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if there was a fund to help them it would raise many more thousands than Amaral's. And no before you ask I don't have a cite, it's my opinion innit.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 03, 2015, 08:12:21 AM
Oh please. It's only the usual 1000 "sceptics" who have supported Amaral, even with publicity from the MSM - what percentage of the population is that? Using Kate's cycle ride as a measure of their support is absurd. If the boot was on the other foot and the McCanns were facing financial ruin because of the malevolent agenda of a corrupt ex-cop from Portugal I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if there was a fund to help them it would raise many more thousands than Amaral's. And no before you ask I don't have a cite, it's my opinion innit.
If the boot was on the other foot, mccann supporters would be gloating.
As is obvious from comments pages in the mail, support for the mccanns has been dwindling for some time.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on June 03, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
I disagree. They will be very disturbed that so many more people have publicly voiced their support for Amaral and his theory than have supported Kates charity run. Has public opinion eventually shifted at last??
Kate isn't doing the charity run to raise money for herself is she?
People have been making numerous donations to the fund for Amaral splitting their donations into small amounts and donating many times to make the numbers look good.
They lied saying the fund would help Madeleine, people were sucked in by that.
Then the donation by ahem Police officers, which really needs to be looked into as that is just disgusting.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 03, 2015, 09:40:56 AM
Kate isn't doing the charity run to raise money for herself is she?
People have been making numerous donations to the fund for Amaral splitting their donations into small amounts and donating many times to make the numbers look good.
They lied saying the fund would help Madeleine, people were sucked in by that.
Then the donation by ahem Police officers, which really needs to be looked into as that is just disgusting.
You would think LB would want to take steps to correct the mis-information presently being publically displayed - regarding how many people have donated - if she really wanted to show how squeaky clean the fund was. It can't be a difficult task.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 03, 2015, 09:45:16 AM
Kate isn't doing the charity run to raise money for herself is she?
People have been making numerous donations to the fund for Amaral splitting their donations into small amounts and donating many times to make the numbers look good.
They lied saying the fund would help Madeleine, people were sucked in by that.
Then the donation by ahem Police officers, which really needs to be looked into as that is just disgusting.
That is merely a result of your support for the mccanns.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carew on June 03, 2015, 09:47:00 AM
Kate isn't doing the charity run to raise money for herself is she?
People have been making numerous donations to the fund for Amaral splitting their donations into small amounts and donating many times to make the numbers look good.
They lied saying the fund would help Madeleine, people were sucked in by that.
Then the donation by ahem Police officers, which really needs to be looked into as that is just disgusting.
Perhaps another dossier is called for..........Maybe present it to the police and get these people dealt with!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 09:48:44 AM
If the boot was on the other foot, mccann supporters would be gloating.
As is obvious from comments pages in the mail, support for the mccanns has been dwindling for some time.
Maybe those who raised over £40,000 in three days to enable a challenge to be made to MP Alistair Carmichael have room to "gloat" ... I think what the Gofundme exercise on behalf of Goncalo Amaral illustrates yet again is the small number of dyed in the wool supporters there actually are. The accompanying comments section illustrates the antipathy this hard core has for the parents of a missing child.
A casual observer might be led to wonder why the Portuguese Justice System is in such a state a Portuguese citizen has to be funded by the British to attain it ... but they will immediately pick up on the mean spirited sentiments expressed, motivated by an almost pathological malice directed at the parents of a missing child and wonder at the mentality behind it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 03, 2015, 09:51:08 AM
Maybe those who raised over £40,000 in three days to enable a challenge to be made to MP Alistair Carmichael have room to "gloat" ... I think what the Gofundme exercise on behalf of Goncalo Amaral illustrates yet again is the small number of dyed in the wool supporters there actually are. The accompanying comments section illustrates the antipathy this hard core has for the parents of a missing child.
A casual observer might be led to wonder why the Portuguese Justice System is in such a state a Portuguese citizen has to be funded by the British to attain it ... but they will immediately pick up on the mean spirited sentiments expressed, motivated by an almost pathological malice directed at the parents of a missing child and wonder at the mentality behind it.
maddie wouldnt be missing without the actions of her parents its called parental responsibility and they had none
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 09:56:14 AM
Kate isn't doing the charity run to raise money for herself is she?
People have been making numerous donations to the fund for Amaral splitting their donations into small amounts and donating many times to make the numbers look good.
They lied saying the fund would help Madeleine, people were sucked in by that.
Then the donation by ahem Police officers, which really needs to be looked into as that is just disgusting.
Goncalo Amaral isn't raising money for himself. His friends and Leanne Baulch are raising money to pay his lawyers to prepare and file his appeal. I don't know who said the fund would help Madeleine? Why is it disgusting that police officers should demonstrate solidarity with a fellow policeman? What is clear is that some people think there are unanswered questions in this case which are connected to Madeleine's parents.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 09:59:18 AM
Maybe those who raised over £40,000 in three days to enable a challenge to be made to MP Alistair Carmichael have room to "gloat" ... I think what the Gofundme exercise on behalf of Goncalo Amaral illustrates yet again is the small number of dyed in the wool supporters there actually are. The accompanying comments section illustrates the antipathy this hard core has for the parents of a missing child.
A casual observer might be led to wonder why the Portuguese Justice System is in such a state a Portuguese citizen has to be funded by the British to attain it ... but they will immediately pick up on the mean spirited sentiments expressed, motivated by an almost pathological malice directed at the parents of a missing child and wonder at the mentality behind it.
Examples?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 10:42:49 AM
Maxine Crowther The McCanns can't keep the truth suppressed forever. There is a battle going on in social media land to force this through to the mainstream media who for some reason only publish the McScam's version of events. £5 kathleen hammett Mr Amaral has scarified so much to find justice for Madeleine , the persecution from her 'parents' he has had to endure is a disgrace they are a disgrace vile excuses for human beings. At least Madeleine has Mr Amaral and the least we can do is help him for all he has done. £5 Mike McGee Good luck in your battle against them! £10 Stephen Farrant Your day will come Mr Amaral and the McCanns will one day be brought to justice because of you Sir. MagPie TRYtheMcCanns PJ should re-question the McCanns since they can't hide behind the arguido status. They'd have to answer about their claim of "smashed window" and "damaged shutter" which was a lie. Interesting comment by Gerry "it's not about the money" -- turns out to be all about it. £5 Ceri TruthOrKarma Here we are, donating to a former police inspector being sued by funds from a misleading "search" fund masquerading as a charity. Let's have the couple of con artists arrested and be done with this nonsense! Good luck Goncalo £5 Lilo Lil Money the McCann's should have spent on the search for their daughter, received through public donation has been spent on pursuing the detective formerly in charge of the investigation into what happened to her, through the Portuguese courts. He has the right to defend himself against the force of the McCann fund. He legitimately wrote a book and gave interviews based on the facts of the case, like many police officers and Criminologists have before him about their own respective cases too numerous to name. I cannot and will not support parents who neglected their children and strongly object to the way they are portrayed in the UK media. Forca Goncalo! £20 Brigette Barnes 2nd of monthly donations I will make to this cause, for however long it takes. As someone who personally was "stitched-up" by MSM & Govt concerning this case, I hope Dr Amaral draws on the strength and support the majority of UK gives him, and will fight & fight again to bring this vile, greedy couple to justice. And to MSM..grow a pair, report the truth, UK public have had enough of you being up the McCann's asses. Shame on you all. £10 Monika S McCanns - why did you lie about the shutters, why did Kate not answer 48questions to help find her daughter, why did you flee Portugal as soon as you were made suspects. I am a mother - I would never leave the country , I would turn every stone on the Portuguese soil and then turn it again until I die or find her. £5 Rosalind S My uncle died at Passchendaele aged seventeen. He did not die for the likes of the McCanns to come along a hundred years later and threaten our freedom of speech from within. I will not tolerate it on his behalf. I will not stand by silently and witness obscene injustice. And injustice has been grievously inflicted on Dr Amaral. That gutter rag The Sun is a disgrace to the nation and I hope Dr Amaral sues Lazzeri and all who have defamed him in such a cowardly fashion, all hiding behind each other and behaving like the worst of the British Colonial mindset £5
Not a cherry picked 'selection' of the worst ... merely the first that came to hand ... and I am sure you are already well aware of the shared sentiments being expressed, (G-force ... I think that may be a kitchen cleaning product, sorry, but it does have a ring) G-Unit.
However you did ask for examples.
Sentiments such as "The dogs don't lie, only humans who refuse to answer 48 questions do..... GO GET 'EM AMARAL!!" julia barton and "the mccanns hiding in plain sight" tend to add a little colour to the piece but a part of the resentment is made clear in what S Brown has to say, just another who believed the hype and was devastated when the preferred verdict was not delivered.
Steven Brown McCANN STATEMENT: "We want to emphasise that the action was never about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that was done to the search for Madeleine" >>>>>> COURT VERDICT: Book factual. NO Libel. NO lies. NO harm to search. NO harm to twins >>>>>> RESULT: £500k awarded for damage to image >>>>>> EFFECT: Image trounces the truth... every time. £5
amending wrong name
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 03, 2015, 11:41:17 AM
Maxine Crowther The McCanns can't keep the truth suppressed forever. There is a battle going on in social media land to force this through to the mainstream media who for some reason only publish the McScam's version of events. £5 kathleen hammett Mr Amaral has scarified so much to find justice for Madeleine , the persecution from her 'parents' he has had to endure is a disgrace they are a disgrace vile excuses for human beings. At least Madeleine has Mr Amaral and the least we can do is help him for all he has done. £5 Mike McGee Good luck in your battle against them! £10 Stephen Farrant Your day will come Mr Amaral and the McCanns will one day be brought to justice because of you Sir. MagPie TRYtheMcCanns PJ should re-question the McCanns since they can't hide behind the arguido status. They'd have to answer about their claim of "smashed window" and "damaged shutter" which was a lie. Interesting comment by Gerry "it's not about the money" -- turns out to be all about it. £5 Ceri TruthOrKarma Here we are, donating to a former police inspector being sued by funds from a misleading "search" fund masquerading as a charity. Let's have the couple of con artists arrested and be done with this nonsense! Good luck Goncalo £5 Lilo Lil Money the McCann's should have spent on the search for their daughter, received through public donation has been spent on pursuing the detective formerly in charge of the investigation into what happened to her, through the Portuguese courts. He has the right to defend himself against the force of the McCann fund. He legitimately wrote a book and gave interviews based on the facts of the case, like many police officers and Criminologists have before him about their own respective cases too numerous to name. I cannot and will not support parents who neglected their children and strongly object to the way they are portrayed in the UK media. Forca Goncalo! £20 Brigette Barnes 2nd of monthly donations I will make to this cause, for however long it takes. As someone who personally was "stitched-up" by MSM & Govt concerning this case, I hope Dr Amaral draws on the strength and support the majority of UK gives him, and will fight & fight again to bring this vile, greedy couple to justice. And to MSM..grow a pair, report the truth, UK public have had enough of you being up the McCann's asses. Shame on you all. £10 Monika S McCanns - why did you lie about the shutters, why did Kate not answer 48questions to help find her daughter, why did you flee Portugal as soon as you were made suspects. I am a mother - I would never leave the country , I would turn every stone on the Portuguese soil and then turn it again until I die or find her. £5 Rosalind S My uncle died at Passchendaele aged seventeen. He did not die for the likes of the McCanns to come along a hundred years later and threaten our freedom of speech from within. I will not tolerate it on his behalf. I will not stand by silently and witness obscene injustice. And injustice has been grievously inflicted on Dr Amaral. That gutter rag The Sun is a disgrace to the nation and I hope Dr Amaral sues Lazzeri and all who have defamed him in such a cowardly fashion, all hiding behind each other and behaving like the worst of the British Colonial mindset £5
Not a cherry picked 'selection' of the worst ... merely the first that came to hand ... and I am sure you are already well aware of the shared sentiments being expressed, (G-force ... I think that may be a kitchen cleaning product, sorry, but it does have a ring) G-Unit.
However you did ask for examples.
Sentiments such as "The dogs don't lie, only humans who refuse to answer 48 questions do..... GO GET 'EM AMARAL!!" julia barton and "the mccanns hiding in plain sight" tend to add a little colour to the piece but a part of the resentment is made clear in what S Brown has to say, just another who believed the hype and was devastated when the preferred verdict was not delivered.
Steven Brown McCANN STATEMENT: "We want to emphasise that the action was never about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that was done to the search for Madeleine" >>>>>> COURT VERDICT: Book factual. NO Libel. NO lies. NO harm to search. NO harm to twins >>>>>> RESULT: £500k awarded for damage to image >>>>>> EFFECT: Image trounces the truth... every time. £5
amending wrong name
If that's the impact of his "expert" opinion on an anglophone audience, is it any wonder what impact he may have had on the Portuguese one?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 12:17:51 PM
Maxine Crowther The McCanns can't keep the truth suppressed forever. There is a battle going on in social media land to force this through to the mainstream media who for some reason only publish the McScam's version of events. £5 kathleen hammett Mr Amaral has scarified so much to find justice for Madeleine , the persecution from her 'parents' he has had to endure is a disgrace they are a disgrace vile excuses for human beings. At least Madeleine has Mr Amaral and the least we can do is help him for all he has done. £5 Mike McGee Good luck in your battle against them! £10 Stephen Farrant Your day will come Mr Amaral and the McCanns will one day be brought to justice because of you Sir. MagPie TRYtheMcCanns PJ should re-question the McCanns since they can't hide behind the arguido status. They'd have to answer about their claim of "smashed window" and "damaged shutter" which was a lie. Interesting comment by Gerry "it's not about the money" -- turns out to be all about it. £5 Ceri TruthOrKarma Here we are, donating to a former police inspector being sued by funds from a misleading "search" fund masquerading as a charity. Let's have the couple of con artists arrested and be done with this nonsense! Good luck Goncalo £5 Lilo Lil Money the McCann's should have spent on the search for their daughter, received through public donation has been spent on pursuing the detective formerly in charge of the investigation into what happened to her, through the Portuguese courts. He has the right to defend himself against the force of the McCann fund. He legitimately wrote a book and gave interviews based on the facts of the case, like many police officers and Criminologists have before him about their own respective cases too numerous to name. I cannot and will not support parents who neglected their children and strongly object to the way they are portrayed in the UK media. Forca Goncalo! £20 Brigette Barnes 2nd of monthly donations I will make to this cause, for however long it takes. As someone who personally was "stitched-up" by MSM & Govt concerning this case, I hope Dr Amaral draws on the strength and support the majority of UK gives him, and will fight & fight again to bring this vile, greedy couple to justice. And to MSM..grow a pair, report the truth, UK public have had enough of you being up the McCann's asses. Shame on you all. £10 Monika S McCanns - why did you lie about the shutters, why did Kate not answer 48questions to help find her daughter, why did you flee Portugal as soon as you were made suspects. I am a mother - I would never leave the country , I would turn every stone on the Portuguese soil and then turn it again until I die or find her. £5 Rosalind S My uncle died at Passchendaele aged seventeen. He did not die for the likes of the McCanns to come along a hundred years later and threaten our freedom of speech from within. I will not tolerate it on his behalf. I will not stand by silently and witness obscene injustice. And injustice has been grievously inflicted on Dr Amaral. That gutter rag The Sun is a disgrace to the nation and I hope Dr Amaral sues Lazzeri and all who have defamed him in such a cowardly fashion, all hiding behind each other and behaving like the worst of the British Colonial mindset £5
Not a cherry picked 'selection' of the worst ... merely the first that came to hand ... and I am sure you are already well aware of the shared sentiments being expressed, (G-force ... I think that may be a kitchen cleaning product, sorry, but it does have a ring) G-Unit.
However you did ask for examples.
Sentiments such as "The dogs don't lie, only humans who refuse to answer 48 questions do..... GO GET 'EM AMARAL!!" julia barton and "the mccanns hiding in plain sight" tend to add a little colour to the piece but a part of the resentment is made clear in what S Brown has to say, just another who believed the hype and was devastated when the preferred verdict was not delivered.
Steven Brown McCANN STATEMENT: "We want to emphasise that the action was never about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that was done to the search for Madeleine" >>>>>> COURT VERDICT: Book factual. NO Libel. NO lies. NO harm to search. NO harm to twins >>>>>> RESULT: £500k awarded for damage to image >>>>>> EFFECT: Image trounces the truth... every time. £5
amending wrong name
Well, we'll have to differ once again. I see things I wouldn't say, but mostly I see anger at the sycophantic attitude of the UK Media, disbelief of the McCann's version of events, but no 'pathological malice'. I assume you are accusing people of being mentally rather than physically ill?
If something is caused by a physical or mental disease https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pathological&rlz=1C1DSGL_enGB457GB457&oq=pathological&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3828j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
Well, we'll have to differ once again. I see things I wouldn't say, but mostly I see anger at the sycophantic attitude of the UK Media, disbelief of the McCann's version of events, but no 'pathological malice'. I assume you are accusing people of being mentally rather than physically ill?
If something is caused by a physical or mental disease https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pathological&rlz=1C1DSGL_enGB457GB457&oq=pathological&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3828j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Read the comments again but this time from the perspective of an innocent person who has been awarded damages against a man who claimed in a best-selling book that you overdosed your kid and hid her body on the beach. How do you feel about them then?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 12:40:14 PM
Well, we'll have to differ once again. I see things I wouldn't say, but mostly I see anger at the sycophantic attitude of the UK Media, disbelief of the McCann's version of events, but no 'pathological malice'. I assume you are accusing people of being mentally rather than physically ill?
If something is caused by a physical or mental disease https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pathological&rlz=1C1DSGL_enGB457GB457&oq=pathological&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3828j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
1 pathological behaviour or feelings happen regularly, and are strong, unreasonable, and impossible to control:
There you go then ... just an everyday phrase ... how could one imagine it is a definition of a real medical condition such as cancer ... or as you have said ... mental illness.
Substitute 'McCann' for 'women' in the above definition and I think you may have actually summed up the situation very succinctly indeed. The malice and the apparent obsessiveness of it directed at the parents of a missing child are more understandable when considered in context. Although nonetheless abhorrent despite recognition of what may be the 'reasoning' behind it all.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 03, 2015, 01:01:02 PM
Oh please. It's only the usual 1000 "sceptics" who have supported Amaral, even with publicity from the MSM - what percentage of the population is that? Using Kate's cycle ride as a measure of their support is absurd. If the boot was on the other foot and the McCanns were facing financial ruin because of the malevolent agenda of a corrupt ex-cop from Portugal I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if there was a fund to help them it would raise many more thousands than Amaral's. And no before you ask I don't have a cite, it's my opinion innit.
Ah Alfie but opinions are like noses ain't they.
Further if the McCanns were so sure that the public would financially support litigation why oh why have they never made it clear that that was what their donations were funding ? Why the subtefuge ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 01:03:21 PM
Since you insist ... and when reading it I would bear in mind your definition of 'pathological'.
I can appreciate people making a donation to a good cause ... but I wonder at those who use their charity as a platform to abuse the parents of a missing child with just a touch of sectarianism thrown into the mix.
Mark and Sheila Hale One day I hope the McCanns will discover belonging to the RC Church and confessing to a RC Priest will not save them only confession of their sin to Jesus is the answer.
My hope for the McCanns is that they are saved by believing in the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven (1Corinthians 15:1-4) see - maureen-ray.com/therebelliousson.
The RC Church is an apostate organisation which preaches salvation by works not through God's grace and by faith in that Gospel.
God hates liars and the destiny of those who deliberately lie is eternal death.
Only belonging in the Body of the One true Church (the Body of Christ) can save them.
He sees right into their hearts and knows the truth about this heinous crime and He alone knows the truth about the way they have made plenty of money out of this terrible tragedy then to claim that money is not the reason for pursuing Goncalo Amaral deserves only a snort of disbelief from me.
Freedom of speech and writing his opinion should not ruffle their feathers if they were innocent and neither should he have to pay one cent for writing his opinion. I sincerely hope that the Daily Express Newspaper, and so many others the McCanns have pursued for monetary gain will be vindicated. Our thoughts cannot be excised from any one of us by any legal process.
Goncalo Amaral is a very brave man. £2
Just realised some of these comments are more interesting and informative than I first gave them credit for.
The next round of contributions will no doubt bear that in mind. 8**8:/:
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 01:06:28 PM
Further if the McCanns were so sure that the public would financially support litigation why oh why have they never made it clear that that was what their donations were funding ? Why the subtefuge ?
There you go accusing the McCanns of deceit again - you just can't help yourself can you??
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 01:31:50 PM
Read the comments again but this time from the perspective of an innocent person who has been awarded damages against a man who claimed in a best-selling book that you overdosed your kid and hid her body on the beach. How do you feel about them then?
It is unfortunate if innocent people are being doubted, but there is no causal connection between Amaral's book and the doubts. People doubted the McCanns before the release of the PJ Files and before the publication of Amaral's book.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 03, 2015, 01:43:44 PM
There you go then ... just an everyday phrase ... how could one imagine it is a definition of a real medical condition such as cancer ... or as you have said ... mental illness.
Substitute 'McCann' for 'women' in the above definition and I think you may have actually summed up the situation very succinctly indeed. The malice and the apparent obsessiveness of it directed at the parents of a missing child are more understandable when considered in context. Although nonetheless abhorrent despite recognition of what may be the 'reasoning' behind it all.
and what of the pathological hatred shown by the mccanns and some of their supporters towards Amaral, and the supporters of course have nt even met him ? &%+((£
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 01:44:47 PM
There you go then ... just an everyday phrase ... how could one imagine it is a definition of a real medical condition such as cancer ... or as you have said ... mental illness.
Substitute 'McCann' for 'women' in the above definition and I think you may have actually summed up the situation very succinctly indeed. The malice and the apparent obsessiveness of it directed at the parents of a missing child are more understandable when considered in context. Although nonetheless abhorrent despite recognition of what may be the 'reasoning' behind it all.
As you are quoting from a psychiatric definition mental disturbance seems to be involved. I see no signs of pathological traits in most posts.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 01:46:40 PM
It is unfortunate if innocent people are being doubted, but there is no causal connection between Amaral's book and the doubts. People doubted the McCanns before the release of the PJ Files and before the publication of Amaral's book.
you've shifted the focus of the discussion, my point was in reply to this, re: your perception of the nature of the comments being left on the fund page:
Well, we'll have to differ once again. I see things I wouldn't say, but mostly I see anger at the sycophantic attitude of the UK Media, disbelief of the McCann's version of events, but no 'pathological malice'. I assume you are accusing people of being mentally rather than physically ill?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 02:02:13 PM
you've shifted the focus of the discussion, my point was in reply to this, re: your perception of the nature of the comments being left on the fund page:
Well, we'll have to differ once again. I see things I wouldn't say, but mostly I see anger at the sycophantic attitude of the UK Media, disbelief of the McCann's version of events, but no 'pathological malice'. I assume you are accusing people of being mentally rather than physically ill?
I answered your point which asked me to read the posts again from the point of view of innocent people. I said that it was unfortunate if innocent people were being doubted. You then went on a rant about Amaral's book, and I replied that there was no causal connection between the book and the doubts. The post above was in reply to Brietta, not you.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 02:16:25 PM
I answered your point which asked me to read the posts again from the point of view of innocent people. I said that it was unfortunate if innocent people were being doubted. You then went on a rant about Amaral's book, and I replied that there was no causal connection between the book and the doubts. The post above was in reply to Brietta, not you.
You've deliberately avoided or misunderstood the point, never mind. I didn't "rant" about Amaral's book either.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 02:21:43 PM
It is unfortunate if innocent people are being doubted, but there is no causal connection between Amaral's book and the doubts. People doubted the McCanns before the release of the PJ Files and before the publication of Amaral's book.
Furthermore, there IS a connection between those people leaving the comments and Amaral's book. Those people are leaving the comments BECAUSE Amaral wrote the book in the first place, if he hadn't, there would be no fund, and no comments. If you were reading those comments from the point of view of someone who had experienced hurt and damage because of Amaral's book you would clearly view many of them as unjust, hurtful, cruel and vindictive. In fact, if you were able to empathise with someone who had been damaged by his book you would clearly be able to see that too, but then you don't so you can't!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 03, 2015, 02:24:21 PM
and what of the pathological hatred shown by the mccanns and some of their supporters towards Amaral, and the supporters of course have nt even met him ? &%+((£
It doesn't count for Sr Amaral is Beelzebub incarnate, allegedly.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 03, 2015, 02:27:47 PM
It doesn't count for Sr Amaral is Beelzebub incarnate, allegedly.
I agree that Amaral is probably pathologically hated by some people (I'm not very keen on him for a start), however that hatred doesn't extend to anything like the level of trolling,abuse and vindictiveness that we see directed McCann-ward. Hashtag Amaral anyone?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 03, 2015, 02:54:38 PM
I agree that Amaral is probably pathologically hated by some people (I'm not very keen on him for a start), however that hatred doesn't extend to anything like the level of trolling,abuse and vindictiveness that we see directed McCann-ward. Hashtag Amaral anyone?
if you dont like what we say why read it?? you mcann supporters are nasty to GA and yet you think we are nasty to the mcanns?/ GA was at work doing his job the mcanns should have been with their kids and were not huge diffrence
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2015, 03:01:53 PM
if you dont like what we say why read it?? you mcann supporters are nasty to GA and yet you think we are nasty to the mcanns?/ GA was at work doing his job the mcanns should have been with their kids and were not huge diffrence
Amaral was driving around drunk with his daughter in the car. But I suppose that's okay, eh?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 03:03:56 PM
if you dont like what we say why read it?? you mcann supporters are nasty to GA and yet you think we are nasty to the mcanns?/ GA was at work doing his job the mcanns should have been with their kids and were not huge diffrence
If you don't like what I say why read it? Ignore it. Byeeeeeee... &8#£%
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 03:25:25 PM
Furthermore, there IS a connection between those people leaving the comments and Amaral's book. Those people are leaving the comments BECAUSE Amaral wrote the book in the first place, if he hadn't, there would be no fund, and no comments. If you were reading those comments from the point of view of someone who had experienced hurt and damage because of Amaral's book you would clearly view many of them as unjust, hurtful, cruel and vindictive. In fact, if you were able to empathise with someone who had been damaged by his book you would clearly be able to see that too, but then you don't so you can't!
There would have been comments elsewhere instead Alfred. The book may have affected some people's views, but by no means everyone who doubts the McCann's story does so because of Amaral's book.
If I was innocent and I'd just been awarded a large sum of money because someone hurt me why would I care what people said? If the people who matter (Operation Grange, the reopened PJ investigation, David Cameron, Theresa May and Hugh Grant) believe me I wouldn't bother about a small number of internet trolls would I?.....although I might wonder about a large number of British Police Officers............
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 03, 2015, 03:30:44 PM
There would have been comments elsewhere instead Alfred. The book may have affected some people's views, but by no means everyone who doubts the McCann's story does so because of Amaral's book.
If I was innocent and I'd just been awarded a large sum of money because someone hurt me why would I care what people said? If the people who matter (Operation Grange, the reopened PJ investigation, David Cameron, Theresa May and Hugh Grant) believe me I wouldn't bother about a small number of internet trolls would I?.....although I might wonder about a large number of British Police Officers............
Again I feel you are missing the point. It was you who asked for evidence of pathological hatred of the McCanns on the Funding Page. When these were pointed out to you, you seemed to think these were all very reasonable and moderate points of view being expressed and not remotely trollish, which is why I asked you to imagine how you would view those comments if they were directed at you, knowing that you were innocent yourself. Maybe you genuinely wouldn't be bothered by them, though I find that extremely hard to believe. Nobody likes to be falsely accused and abused, even if it is "only" by 1000 people on the internet!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 03, 2015, 03:46:47 PM
Again I feel you are missing the point. It was you who asked for evidence of pathological hatred of the McCanns on the Funding Page. When these were pointed out to you, you seemed to think these were all very reasonable and moderate points of view being expressed and not remotely trollish, which is why I asked you to imagine how you would view those comments if they were directed at you, knowing that you were innocent yourself. Maybe you genuinely wouldn't be bothered by them, though I find that extremely hard to believe. Nobody likes to be falsely accused and abused, even if it is "only" by 1000 people on the internet!
It was Brietta who said the comments displayed 'pathological hatred'. I questioned that because 'pathological' suggests mental or physical illness, and I can see no evidence of either. She then tried to suggest she was using 'pathological' in an everyday manner, and quoted a definition which was in a psychiatric area of a dictionary, which also suggests it's related to mental illness.
I have said that it must be unpleasant for innocent people to be accused. If the McCanns are innocent perhaps they could do more to demonstrate that. People don't doubt them because of a book, they doubt them because of their actions and statements. They created the doubts, no-one else did it. There's your causal connection.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 04:29:42 PM
It was Brietta who said the comments displayed 'pathological hatred'. I questioned that because 'pathological' suggests mental or physical illness, and I can see no evidence of either. She then tried to suggest she was using 'pathological' in an everyday manner, and quoted a definition which was in a psychiatric area of a dictionary, which also suggests it's related to mental illness.
I have said that it must be unpleasant for innocent people to be accused. If the McCanns are innocent perhaps they could do more to demonstrate that. People don't doubt them because of a book, they doubt them because of their actions and statements. They created the doubts, no-one else did it. There's your causal connection.
So even if the McCanns are 100% innocent, all the shit directed at them is their fault anyway!! Gotta love your rationalisation for the hate campaign! 8((()*/
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 04:42:27 PM
It is unfortunate if innocent people are being doubted, but there is no causal connection between Amaral's book and the doubts. People doubted the McCanns before the release of the PJ Files and before the publication of Amaral's book.
It is unfortunate as well as despicable to mount an eight year campaign of vilification against the parents of a missing child based on pathological dislike and nothing more.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 05:16:48 PM
It doesn't count for Sr Amaral is Beelzebub incarnate, allegedly.
Not at all ... if you read the comments there are those who appear to have opinions raising Mr Amaral above sainthood, sometimes with sometimes without an accompanying nasty dig at Madeleine's parents.
Billy Goat-Gruff Had the McCann's put half the effort Goncalo & the PJ into the search for Madeleine instead of pedalling their ridiculous story around the world, the case would have been solved in 8 weeks - never mind 8 years & counting £12
Billy Goat-Gruff seems to miss the point that Mr Amaral was the person with the greatest chance of solving Madeleine's case in eight weeks since he was coordinating the case right from the Golden Hours and determined the investigative strategy.
Seems to be some sort of transference of responsibility in BGG's narrative ... unless it is the norm that parents of missing children should be responsible for doing the job of law enforcement.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 05:18:49 PM
So even if the McCanns are 100% innocent, all the shit directed at them is their fault anyway!! Gotta love your rationalisation for the hate campaign! 8((()*/
If they're innocent they've done a really good job of suggesting otherwise. If these 'intelligent' people can't work out what they've done wrong then I would have to question their intelligence - it's all out there if they really want to know.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 05:26:03 PM
It was Brietta who said the comments displayed 'pathological hatred'. I questioned that because 'pathological' suggests mental or physical illness, and I can see no evidence of either. She then tried to suggest she was using 'pathological' in an everyday manner, and quoted a definition which was in a psychiatric area of a dictionary, which also suggests it's related to mental illness.
I have said that it must be unpleasant for innocent people to be accused. If the McCanns are innocent perhaps they could do more to demonstrate that. People don't doubt them because of a book, they doubt them because of their actions and statements. They created the doubts, no-one else did it. There's your causal connection.
"It was Brietta who said the comments displayed 'pathological hatred'."
That sounds sooooo much like " ... a big boy dunnit and ran away ...". Some of the people making these comments care nothing about the sheer nastiness being displayed to people who have suffered more than can be imagined (there's that empathy thing again) and sadly, have no idea the way in which it reveals them for what they are to a casual observer.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 03, 2015, 05:27:13 PM
Not at all ... if you read the comments there are those who appear to have opinions raising Mr Amaral above sainthood, sometimes with sometimes without an accompanying nasty dig at Madeleine's parents.
Billy Goat-Gruff Had the McCann's put half the effort Goncalo & the PJ into the search for Madeleine instead of pedalling their ridiculous story around the world, the case would have been solved in 8 weeks - never mind 8 years & counting £12
Billy Goat-Gruff seems to miss the point that Mr Amaral was the person with the greatest chance of solving Madeleine's case in eight weeks since he was coordinating the case right from the Golden Hours and determined the investigative strategy.
Seems to be some sort of transference of responsibility in BGG's narrative ... unless it is the norm that parents of missing children should be responsible for doing the job of law enforcement.
I see not the suggestion that Sr Amaral should be beatified. Ignoring the fact he remains alive so probably would not, on those grounds, qualify anyway.
This is an interesting fundraiser which kind of like shades all the rest of the trollocks about fund raising on here. It tops out at £98K raised by 27 people. http://www.everydayhero.co.uk/event/cyclemadagascar/top_ten http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?PBID=fd43d530-29cf-4e45-97e3-b093db37d8f0 page 10
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 05:37:05 PM
It is unfortunate as well as despicable to mount an eight year campaign of vilification against the parents of a missing child based on pathological dislike and nothing more.
Your posts are always entertaining if rather tiresomely repetitious. While some on the internet may be suffering from a pathological condition you are not qualified to diagnose them as far as I know. Not everyone believes the McCanns, That's a fact and no matter how many names you or The Star call them that won't change unless the case is solved and someone is successfully prosecuted for whatever crime was committed.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 05:39:31 PM
If they're innocent they've done a really good job of suggesting otherwise. If these 'intelligent' people can't work out what they've done wrong then I would have to question their intelligence - it's all out there if they really want to know.
Have you ever considered the possibility that it's you and your fellow "sceptics" that have done a really good job of convincing yourselves of the McCanns' guilt and not the McCanns themselves? I am intelligent and I don't think the McCanns dunnit. How do you explain that phenomenon?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 03, 2015, 05:42:00 PM
Your posts are always entertaining if rather tiresomely repetitious. While some on the internet may be suffering from a pathological condition you are not qualified to diagnose them as far as I know. Not everyone believes the McCanns, That's a fact and no matter how many names you or The Star call them that won't change unless the case is solved and someone is successfully prosecuted for whatever crime was committed.
You are wrong on so many things .....even if someone was successfully prosecuted there would still be some who would still think the mcanns were guilty.... Nutters on the net
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 05:43:48 PM
You are wrong on so many things .....even if someone was successfully prosecuted there would still be some who would still think the mc and were guilty.... Nutters on the net
Yup, in the same way that Gonc's Barmy Army refuse to accept the ruling of a Portuguese Judge, so too would the same people refuse to accept the due process of the law if it were directed at anyone else apart from the McCanns in their daughter's disappearance.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 05:48:40 PM
Have you ever considered the possibility that it's you and your fellow "sceptics" that have done a really good job of convincing yourselves of the McCanns' guilt and not the McCanns themselves? I am intelligent and I don't think the McCanns dunnit. How do you explain that phenomenon?
Had there been no strangeness in their stories there would be no doubts. I can't tell you why your intelligence is directed to supporting a couple whose stories don't add up, only you can.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 05:51:00 PM
Had there been no strangeness in their stories there would be no doubts. I can't tell you why your intelligence is directed to supporting a couple whose stories don't add up, only you can.
Dear me, G, if the McCanns stories did not add up they would be arguidos again, can you rationalise why they are not? Please use your undoubted intelligence to explain that to us.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Your posts are always entertaining if rather tiresomely repetitious. While some on the internet may be suffering from a pathological condition you are not qualified to diagnose them as far as I know. Not everyone believes the McCanns, That's a fact and no matter how many names you or The Star call them that won't change unless the case is solved and someone is successfully prosecuted for whatever crime was committed.
Let me see now &%+((£ pathological liar ~ pathological hatred ~ pathological compulsion ~ pathological obsession ~ et all cannot be used unless unless one has a qualification determined by you ??
Just as you have it entirely wrong on your defence of the abuse of the parents of a missing child ~ you have it entirely wrong on the usage of the English Language ... don't rely on the on-line dictionary in the attempt to support your prejudices try listening to colloquial language, or even English as it is spoke.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 03, 2015, 06:00:28 PM
Dear me, G, if the McCanns stories did not add up they would be arguidos again, can you rationalise why they are not? Please use your undoubted intelligence to explain that to us.
Always provided that Portuguese law has the status "arguido(a) in absentia" as it were. Anyone know for sure. On yer marks, set, "Google"
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 06:07:13 PM
Dear me, G, if the McCanns stories did not add up they would be arguidos again, can you rationalise why they are not? Please use your undoubted intelligence to explain that to us.
As I have no idea what the investigators are doing I can't answer that question. I haven't said, remember, that the McCanns are guilty of anything except lax parenting and telling really confusing stories. That may mean they are guilty of something, it may just mean they tell illogical stories. Their confusing stories have led to them being suspected by the PJ and by others.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 06:08:37 PM
Always provided that Portuguese law has the status "arguido(a) in absentia" as it were. Anyone know for sure. On yer marks, set, "Google"
Well I seem to remember some legal expert sceptic trying to convince us that the McCanns would automatically become arguidos again the very nano-second the case was re-opened. Perhaps Montclair knows the answer to your question - he or she seems to know everything you ever needed to know about the Portuguese legal system (but were afraid to ask!)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 06:10:27 PM
As I have no idea what the investigators are doing I can't answer that question. I haven't said, remember, that the McCanns are guilty of anything except lax parenting and telling really confusing stories. That may mean they are guilty of something, it may just mean they tell illogical stories. Their confusing stories have led to them being suspected by the PJ and by others.
that's not strictly true is it? We have some idea of what they've been up to over the last couple of years, but very oddly none of it seems to involve treating the McCanns as suspects, I wonder why.... &%+((£
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 06:16:33 PM
Let me see now &%+((£ pathological liar ~ pathological hatred ~ pathological compulsion ~ pathological obsession ~ et all cannot be used unless unless one has a qualification determined by you ??
Just as you have it entirely wrong on your defence of the abuse of the parents of a missing child ~ you have it entirely wrong on the usage of the English Language ... don't rely on the on-line dictionary in the attempt to support your prejudices try listening to colloquial language, or even English as it is spoke.
I truly hope you don't speak as you write. @)(++(*
You can say what you like, it doesn't make it correct.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 03, 2015, 06:36:05 PM
Well I seem to remember some legal expert sceptic trying to convince us that the McCanns would automatically become arguidos again the very nano-second the case was re-opened. Perhaps Montclair knows the answer to your question - he or she seems to know everything you ever needed to know about the Portuguese legal system (but were afraid to ask!)
You said: Dear me, G, if the McCanns stories did not add up they would be arguidos again, can you rationalise why they are not? Please use your undoubted intelligence to explain that to us.
Presumably then you either believed Montclair or know yourself from another source that is the case, otherwise from whence thine opinion ?.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 06:53:46 PM
You said: Dear me, G, if the McCanns stories did not add up they would be arguidos again, can you rationalise why they are not? Please use your undoubted intelligence to explain that to us.
Presumably then you either believed Montclair or know yourself from another source that is the case, otherwise from whence thine opinion ?.
I was led to believe by someone claiming to be an authority on the subject, from "your" side of the divide. If you know better ( you usually do!) then do tell....
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2015, 07:00:23 PM
I truly hope you don't speak as you write. @)(++(*
You can say what you like, it doesn't make it correct.
Guess what? I always have although I have had to "dumb it down" of late ... communicating with teenagers who do not know what simple words like "incline" or "akimbo" mean has necessitated I do so. I have also had to take into account the level of language capable of being understood by some other posters and adjust accordingly.
There seems to be extreme difficulty with "empathy" ~ "innocence" ~ "compassion" ~ particularly as these relate to the parents of a missing child.
Kind of you though to give me permission to exercise my freedom of speech.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2015, 07:13:26 PM
that's not strictly true is it? We have some idea of what they've been up to over the last couple of years, but very oddly none of it seems to involve treating the McCanns as suspects, I wonder why.... &%+((£
Well if I knew how suspects are treated I might have an opinion, but I don't. The police seem to go along doing whatever they do and then they pounce. There's been no pouncing obviously. Whether any pouncing is planned and upon whom I don't know.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 03, 2015, 07:27:17 PM
Dear me, G, if the McCanns stories did not add up they would be arguidos again, can you rationalise why they are not? Please use your undoubted intelligence to explain that to us.
SY has a remit that does not involve, directly, investigating the McCanns.
PJ are pursuing a line of enquiry that does not involve the McCanns.
Why should pursuing alternative lines of enquiry make the McCanns arguidos?
Thinks out loud ... was the Brit media bleating on about arguido status expiring on the last 3 from autumn 2014? Then things went quiet, so what actually happened has joined other info, mysteriously lost without trace in the Algarve triangle.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 07:49:53 PM
SY has a remit that does not involve, directly, investigating the McCanns.
PJ are pursuing a line of enquiry that does not involve the McCanns.
Why should pursuing alternative lines of enquiry make the McCanns arguidos?
Thinks out loud ... was the Brit media bleating on about arguido status expiring on the last 3 from autumn 2014? Then things went quiet, so what actually happened has joined other info, mysteriously lost without trace in the Algarve triangle.
Correct, neither the Met nor the PJ are investigating the McCanns, which must be a real puzzle to those who have convinced themselves that their stories don't add up.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 03, 2015, 09:23:18 PM
As I have no idea what the investigators are doing I can't answer that question. I haven't said, remember, that the McCanns are guilty of anything except lax parenting and telling really confusing stories. That may mean they are guilty of something, it may just mean they tell illogical stories. Their confusing stories have led to them being suspected by the PJ and by others.
Good post, reflects my thoughts.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 03, 2015, 09:28:40 PM
I was led to believe by someone claiming to be an authority on the subject, from "your" side of the divide. If you know better ( you usually do!) then do tell....
In common with most on here I haven't a bleeding clue mate. It just struck me that "arguido(a) in absentia" did not have much purpose. I could be wrong , I frequently am, unlike some on here who profess to have a batting average of 0.330.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 03, 2015, 09:37:37 PM
In common with most on here I haven't a bleeding clue mate. It just struck me that "arguido(a) in absentia" did not have much purpose. I could be wrong , I frequently am, unlike some on here who profess to have a batting average of 0.330.
Ironside was a bit of a leading sceptic authority, his or her pronouncements are recorded on Pamalam's blog for posterity, must be important, eh?
Quote
The McCanns have not been cleared , their arguido status has been lifted. If the investigation were to be re-opened tomorrow the McCanns would once again become arguidos. They have both also made it very clear they are not to be question on their version of what they claim happened to Madeleine.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 03, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Are you suggesting that Madeleine McCann's parents were accompanied by a lawyer during initial interviews when the police were still looking for their child.
You really do come up with utter nonsense on occasion ... but this piece of innuendo takes the biscuit ... that tragic father had no need to engage a lawyer initially ... and initially ... neither did Madeleine's parents.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 04, 2015, 02:04:32 AM
Control Risks were with them in May - I think the clue is in the name. Re-took the McCanns' statements as it was feared that parts of these might have been lost in translation (this later proved to be the case) @)(++(* And innocent parents of a missing child matter to the police.
12 Aug 07
The man in charge of the case, Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, stressed they were not suspects.
"They are victims of the crime because they have lost their little child," he said.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 04, 2015, 03:05:22 AM
Control Risks were with them in May - I think the clue is in the name. Re-took the McCanns' statements as it was feared that parts of these might have been lost in translation (this later proved to be the case) @)(++(* And innocent parents of a missing child matter to the police.
12 Aug 07
The man in charge of the case, Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, stressed they were not suspects.
"They are victims of the crime because they have lost their little child," he said.
So are you saying Control Risks sat in police interviews with them?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 04, 2015, 07:40:58 AM
So are you saying Control Risks sat in police interviews with them?
They went over everything with Control Risks and then changed their statements. They said the Portuguese translators were wrong, they said the dogs were wrong, they said Pamela Fenn was wrong, they said the cleaner was wrong. They said everybody was wrong except them.
There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. (Gonçalo Amaral)
The first arguido Robert Murat fully co-operated and answered all questions to the police.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom. She thought her daughter's comment strange because it was the first time she had talked about it. (KM 4 May)
Madeleine made a comment where were you when I cried. (KM 2008)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 04, 2015, 07:48:21 AM
They went over everything with Control Risks and then changed their statements. They said the Portuguese translators were wrong, they said the dogs were wrong, they said Pamela Fenn was wrong, they said the cleaner was wrong. They said everybody was wrong except them.
There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. (Gonçalo Amaral)
The first arguido Robert Murat fully co-operated and answered all questions to the police.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom. She thought her daughter's comment strange because it was the first time she had talked about it. (KM 4 May)
Madeleine made a comment where were you when I cried. (KM 2008)
I think they are right
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 04, 2015, 08:12:07 AM
They went over everything with Control Risks and then changed their statements. They said the Portuguese translators were wrong, they said the dogs were wrong, they said Pamela Fenn was wrong, they said the cleaner was wrong. They said everybody was wrong except them.
There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. (Gonçalo Amaral)
The first arguido Robert Murat fully co-operated and answered all questions to the police.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom. She thought her daughter's comment strange because it was the first time she had talked about it. (KM 4 May)
Madeleine made a comment where were you when I cried. (KM 2008)
Two things strike me about these videos:
1) How slick and professional they are.
Am I right that Hideho is just a craft type painter? And not a video producer by profession.
Who is providing these pieces of propaganda .... and making these slick productions? They are professional and would cost megabucks to produce
... and they blatently provide bits of untruth, like Gerry coming in via the front door.
It is obvious someone has a lot to lose if he / his backing organisation is found responsible .... so he/they are willing to pay out the mega bucks money to try and twist the evidence
2) IMO, Pfinder finds, twists and produces far too much info. for her to do it on her own.
Who is feeding her? Who is pulling her strings?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 04, 2015, 05:52:08 PM
I do my own research. Try it and you keep getting things wrong.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. (KM 4 May)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 04, 2015, 06:15:42 PM
They went over everything with Control Risks and then changed their statements. They said the Portuguese translators were wrong, they said the dogs were wrong, they said Pamela Fenn was wrong, they said the cleaner was wrong. They said everybody was wrong except them.
There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. (Gonçalo Amaral)
The first arguido Robert Murat fully co-operated and answered all questions to the police.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom. She thought her daughter's comment strange because it was the first time she had talked about it. (KM 4 May)
Madeleine made a comment where were you when I cried. (KM 2008)
There are those who say David Payne may have gone to help Kate with the children. Interesting that in the 'crying' interview Gerry wonders if Madeleine was crying 'when they were bathing them'. Probably just a slip of the tongue.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lyall on June 04, 2015, 06:52:10 PM
Am I right that Hideho is just a craft type painter? And not a video producer by profession.
Who is providing these pieces of propaganda .... and making these slick productions? They are professional and would cost megabucks to produce
... and they blatently provide bits of untruth, like Gerry coming in via the front door.
It is obvious someone has a lot to lose if he / his backing organisation is found responsible .... so he/they are willing to pay out the mega bucks money to try and twist the evidence
2) IMO, Pfinder finds, twists and produces far too much info. for her to do it on her own.
Who is feeding her? Who is pulling her strings?
Nah, it's very easy to make them these days Sadie. Maybe too easy!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: lordpookles on June 04, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
Yeah copy of iMovie and you are away. You could even make these on your phone. Don't look slick or professional to me.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lyall on June 04, 2015, 06:59:57 PM
I do my own research. Try it and you keep getting things wrong.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. (KM 4 May)
Tis you that gets things wrong, almost all the time.
I always admit if I am not sure.
You state incorrect things as fact. THen base monstrous accusations on them
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 04, 2015, 09:26:14 PM
I have corrected you many times over the past months .... even suggesting that you give up if you cant get it right.
Many will have seen this and my other comments about incorrect statements.
I have no intention in wasting my time proving what many will have read, and know to be untrue..
You may kid some of them, some of the time, but loads of people will know that you are regularly wrong.
I dont like keep picking you up and correcting you, pFinder, but it is important for the sake of Justice that new myths based on lies are not being circulated.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2015, 10:01:34 PM
You perpetually stalk me and make great efforts to undemine me
I wonder why? [I think I know]
Because you don't add to the debate. You are obsessed with bloodlines, Jewishness and shady organisations which you can't mention, you want us to believe that SY are hanging on your every word but are unwilling to state anything so that it can be challenged or refuted. I know something you don't know is so childish.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 04, 2015, 10:24:02 PM
Look now. I am not having much more of this, from any of you. I am just going to delete anything that is even remotely Off Topic or Insulting. So just don't try me.
What you all do is insulting to the rights that this Forum affords you all.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 04, 2015, 10:30:26 PM
Because you don't add to the debate. You are obsessed with bloodlines, Jewishness and shady organisations which you can't mention, you want us to believe that SY are hanging on your every word but are unwilling to state anything so that it can be challenged or refuted. I know something you don't know is so childish.
I have no idea if SY are hanging on to my every word, but I do KNOW that they have taken notice of what I have said in at least one area, and acted.
They also appear to have publicly acknowledged me, but in a way that neither you nor anyone on here, unless in the know, would recognise
I cant say anymore.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2015, 07:16:47 AM
Musn't forget a link to blacksmith's latest...his fans must be very proud of him.
http://www.blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 05, 2015, 07:40:53 AM
You said what I felt when I read that. I had no answer except....Huh?
Anyway, back to the subject. The parents of a stolen child matter a great deal. In this case there is no evidence that Madeleine was stolen. Her parents were the last to see her and their stories aroused suspicion.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 05, 2015, 08:56:24 AM
You said what I felt when I read that. I had no answer except....Huh?
Anyway, back to the subject. The parents of a stolen child matter a great deal. In this case there is no evidence that Madeleine was stolen. Her parents were the last to see her and their stories aroused suspicion.
That states the situation precisely G-Unit.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on June 05, 2015, 10:28:18 AM
You said what I felt when I read that. I had no answer except....Huh?
Anyway, back to the subject. The parents of a stolen child matter a great deal. In this case there is no evidence that Madeleine was stolen. Her parents were the last to see her and their stories aroused suspicion.
Strange how their stories haven't aroused suspicion with SY isn't it? They say the McCann's are not suspects.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 10:44:19 AM
Extremely strange. It is, of course, almost two years since DCI Redwood said that. Have SY made any pronouncements since then?
Obviously you consider it necessary for SY to make a periodic announcement confirming Madeleine McCann's parents are not persons of interest ... for the majority, once is enough.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 10:51:55 AM
The McCanns' statements and actions all preceded DCI Redwood's pronouncement - what do you think might have changed?
And when Redwood made that announcement all those moons ago he also admitted that not all the files had been looked at. Who knows what's happened since.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 05, 2015, 11:08:02 AM
And when Redwood made that announcement all those moons ago he also admitted that not all the files had been looked at. Who knows what's happened since.
@)(++(* Who knows what's happened since? Well, I do know that the Met made a whole bunch of people arguidos and none of them was the McCanns and they also seem to be linking Madeleine's disappearance to a spate of burglaries and sex assaults on the Algarve but I'm sure that's all secret code for "we think the McCanns dunnit".
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 05, 2015, 11:10:51 AM
@)(++(* Who knows what's happened since? Well, I do know that the Met made a whole bunch of people arguidos and none of them was the McCanns and they also seem to be linking Madeleine's disappearance to a spate of burglaries and sex assaults on the Algarve but I'm sure that's all secret code for "we think the McCanns dunnit".
I suppose they have to do something to justify their time, but nothing seems to have come out of that particular spurt of activity, nor from all the excavations they did.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 11:20:29 AM
Obviously you consider it necessary for SY to make a periodic announcement confirming Madeleine McCann's parents are not persons of interest ... for the majority, once is enough.
I think SY keeping their mouths firmly shut is the right thing to do. Why Redwood didn't I can't imagine. What majority? Has there been a headcount?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2015, 11:56:12 AM
You said what I felt when I read that. I had no answer except....Huh?
Anyway, back to the subject. The parents of a stolen child matter a great deal. In this case there is no evidence that Madeleine was stolen. Her parents were the last to see her and their stories aroused suspicion.
there is no evidence Ben Needham was stolen...his grandmother was the last to see him alive...his family were suspects...we have not seen their statements so we don't know what they told the police. I have no reason to believe they are involved but they have not been cleared
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2015, 12:04:06 PM
I think SY keeping their mouths firmly shut is the right thing to do. Why Redwood didn't I can't imagine. What majority? Has there been a headcount?
That it was considered necessary to officially remove Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends from the equation shows an awareness of the customary abuse they, as the parents of a missing child have been subjected to.
Not I would think it the statement of an individual but a statement made after thought and discussion ... the necessity for which should make some hang their heads in black burning shame ... if they were capable of that emotion.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 12:21:06 PM
That it was considered necessary to officially remove Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends from the equation shows an awareness of the customary abuse they, as the parents of a missing child have been subjected to.
Not I would think it the statement of an individual but a statement made after thought and discussion ... the necessity for which should make some hang their heads in black burning shame ... if they were capable of that emotion.
That is just your opinion, not that of SY, unless they told you so? Otherwise it was what Redwood thought two years ago.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 05, 2015, 12:24:34 PM
That is just your opinion, not that of SY, unless they told you so? Otherwise it was what Redwood thought two years ago.
Consider all the action taken by the Met and the PJ since that statement was made 2 years ago and then tell me if there is anything at all that has been done that leads you to believe that the McCanns are suspects? Now do the same exercise and again but this time ask yourself what conclusions about the direction the investigation has taken (based on these actions) any logically-minded person should draw?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2015, 12:40:04 PM
That is just your opinion, not that of SY, unless they told you so? Otherwise it was what Redwood thought two years ago.
Merely a logical deduction based on myriads of evidence regarding the malice I know is heaped on Madeleine McCann's parents ... and something to which Operation Grange became accustomed from its inception through numerous FOI requests and the outrage engendered by the fact there was an official review into Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 01:01:06 PM
Merely a logical deduction based on myriads of evidence regarding the malice I know is heaped on Madeleine McCann's parents ... and something to which Operation Grange became accustomed from its inception through numerous FOI requests and the outrage engendered by the fact there was an official review into Madeleine's disappearance.
Here's a somewhat more logical logical deduction. Operation Grange was set up to review/investigate an abduction. It is unlikely that Madeleine's parents and their friends abducted Madeleine. Therefore they and their friends are not suspects.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2015, 01:13:43 PM
Here's a somewhat more logical logical deduction. Operation Grange was set up to review/investigate an abduction. It is unlikely that Madeleine's parents and their friends abducted Madeleine. Therefore they and their friends are not suspects.
Delighted you recognise that Madeleine's parents and their friends are not suspects ... it will be a good day when those who question that arrive at the same conclusion and give up their pass time of showing their ignorance with every McCann related comment they feel the compulsion to make.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 05, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
Here's a somewhat more logical logical deduction. Operation Grange was set up to review/investigate an abduction. It is unlikely that Madeleine's parents and their friends abducted Madeleine. Therefore they and their friends are not suspects.
Absolutely spot on - to investigate nothing else. Not sure what the position will be if no abduction can actually be proved.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 05, 2015, 01:30:59 PM
Absolutely spot on - to investigate nothing else. Not sure what the position will be if no abduction can actually be proved.
Imagine The Met. finding that the original investigation was thorough apart from a few minor holes The Met plugged then to declare "Well we don't know what if any crime was committed", as you were. I wouldn't quibble would you?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 02:39:28 PM
Delighted you recognise that Madeleine's parents and their friends are not suspects ... it will be a good day when those who question that arrive at the same conclusion and give up their pass time of showing their ignorance with every McCann related comment they feel the compulsion to make.
Sigh...my deduction was that they are not suspected of abducting Madeleine. I have no idea if abduction is still the remit or if it has changed.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 05, 2015, 02:52:51 PM
Here's a somewhat more logical logical deduction. Operation Grange was set up to review/investigate an abduction. It is unlikely that Madeleine's parents and their friends abducted Madeleine. Therefore they and their friends are not suspects.
Are you trying to tell us that Op Grange are only allowed to investigate one possible theory?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 03:32:49 PM
Are you trying to tell us that Op Grange are only allowed to investigate one possible theory?
Remit.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 05, 2015, 04:07:18 PM
"Merely a logical deduction based on myriads of evidence regarding the malice I know is heaped on Madeleine McCann's parents ... and something to which Operation Grange became accustomed from its inception through numerous FOI requests and the outrage engendered by the fact there was an official review into Madeleine's disappearance".
Anyone for "spot the fact". I make it three; any advance?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 05, 2015, 04:07:27 PM
Here's a somewhat more logical logical deduction. Operation Grange was set up to review/investigate an abduction. It is unlikely that Madeleine's parents and their friends abducted Madeleine. Therefore they and their friends are not suspects.
Andy Redwood also said they are 'not persons of interest' in other words, they didn't have anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 05, 2015, 04:45:00 PM
Sigh...my deduction was that they are not suspected of abducting Madeleine. I have no idea if abduction is still the remit or if it has changed.
You've got that bit of it absolutely correct ... and for those with eyes to see and ears to hear is the assurance that Madeleine McCann's parents are of no interest whatsoever to the present investigators ~ either British or Portuguese.
Mr Amaral's theory has been totally discredited as has every bizarre theory regarding Madeleine's parents he has come up with ... that his following persist in believing that a cop who jumped before he was pushed is worth the hateful campaigns directed against the parents of a missing child ... will remain one of the mysteries of the human psyche.
“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects” ~DCI Andy Redwood
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 05, 2015, 05:24:37 PM
You've got that bit of it absolutely correct ... and for those with eyes to see and ears to hear is the assurance that Madeleine McCann's parents are of no interest whatsoever to the present investigators ~ either British or Portuguese.
Mr Amaral's theory has been totally discredited as has every bizarre theory regarding Madeleine's parents he has come up with ... that his following persist in believing that a cop who jumped before he was pushed is worth the hateful campaigns directed against the parents of a missing child ... will remain one of the mysteries of the human psyche.
“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects” ~DCI Andy Redwood
WRONG.
Since when has accidental death been disproved ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2015, 05:40:41 PM
Why are you so anxious that Madeleine McCann is dead? Why are you so opposed to finding out what happened to her?
There is not one shred of proof that Madeleine is dead, but if she is her remains should be looked for and cause of death determined .
Her parents have campaigned tirelessly to have her case reopened because a little girl who may be alive is worthy of being looked for; the virulent campaign directed against them is as a direct result of their efforts to keep Madeleine's case alive, and that is rather worrying.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 05, 2015, 05:44:54 PM
Why are you so anxious that Madeleine McCann is dead? Why are you so opposed to finding out what happened to her?
There is not one shred of proof that Madeleine is dead, but if she is her remains should be looked for and cause of death determined .
Her parents have campaigned tirelessly to have her case reopened because a little girl who may be alive is worthy of being looked for; the virulent campaign directed against them is as a direct result of their efforts to keep Madeleine's case alive, and that is rather worrying.
There is a subtle difference between wanting someone dead and using common sense is something you don't appear to have grasped.
So where would this little girl be right now ?
With a paedophile or with a really nice family who don't have a clue ?
Answers on a post card.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2015, 05:49:56 PM
It isn't original because you keep spouting the same things...I would say that accidental has been proved on the balance of probabilities not to have taken place...the same goes for alien abduction
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2015, 06:29:22 PM
You've got that bit of it absolutely correct ... and for those with eyes to see and ears to hear is the assurance that Madeleine McCann's parents are of no interest whatsoever to the present investigators ~ either British or Portuguese.
Mr Amaral's theory has been totally discredited as has every bizarre theory regarding Madeleine's parents he has come up with ... that his following persist in believing that a cop who jumped before he was pushed is worth the hateful campaigns directed against the parents of a missing child ... will remain one of the mysteries of the human psyche.
“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects” ~DCI Andy Redwood
If they are working on the assumption that Madeleine was abducted then the parents and their friends would not be suspects, is what I actually said of course.
If they are investigating all possible scenarios, who knows what they think now. Not me and not anyone else, no matter how much some people think they know.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 05, 2015, 06:36:24 PM
If they are working on the assumption that Madeleine was abducted then the parents and their friends would not be suspects, is what I actually said of course.
If they are investigating all possible scenarios, who knows what they think now. Not me and not anyone else, no matter how much some people think they know.
Hmm...well we know that they were interested in tracing intruder(s) involved in sex attacks on children in the Algarve, we know they made a number of people arguidos (none of them the McCanns or their friends), so we do know a little bit about what they're thinking don't we...? Certainly there isn't a single solitary shred of evidence to suggest that they might now suspect the parents, is there?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 05, 2015, 08:46:59 PM
Topic. Please.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 05, 2015, 10:36:34 PM
It isn't original because you keep spouting the same things...I would say that accidental has been proved on the balance of probabilities not to have taken place...the same goes for alien abduction
Proved?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2015, 10:40:46 PM
You've got that bit of it absolutely correct ... and for those with eyes to see and ears to hear is the assurance that Madeleine McCann's parents are of no interest whatsoever to the present investigators ~ either British or Portuguese.
Mr Amaral's theory has been totally discredited as has every bizarre theory regarding Madeleine's parents he has come up with ... that his following persist in believing that a cop who jumped before he was pushed is worth the hateful campaigns directed against the parents of a missing child ... will remain one of the mysteries of the human psyche.
“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects” ~DCI Andy Redwood
(http://i61.tinypic.com/33l07qb.jpg)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 05, 2015, 11:38:04 PM
1. This is the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann not the Abduction of.
2. A SY Homicide team are investigating the disappearance.
3. All are suspects in homicide cases - statistics prove it whatever DCI Redwood said to the public.
4. SY were looking for a body last year.
1. It probably is an abduction .... in fact it was ... of that I am almost certain. Why cant statistics including abduction be used? Why should your fetish of death / the parents dunnit be the only scenario looked at?
3. All have been suspects, but how do you know if The Parents are still suspects? You dont. Evidence may have come to light completely implicating someone, but they are not yet able to prove it.
4. SY were looking for evidence last year, not specifically for a body.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: TitoMuzzy on June 06, 2015, 01:59:08 AM
Which proves that sadly in a number of cases, children under 5 have been murdered by complete strangers. Now what are the percentages for abduction?
Alfie my boy, you've hit the nail on the head (though you probably haven't figured out how) !! 3% STRANGER murder... It's looking more and more like an 'inside' job....
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2015, 07:26:42 AM
Alfie my boy, you've hit the nail on the head (though you probably haven't figured out how) !! 3% STRANGER murder... It's looking more and more like an 'inside' job....
Is anyone suggesting that maddie was murdered by family or friends...more people who do not understand statistics
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 06, 2015, 08:31:31 AM
Alfie my boy, you've hit the nail on the head (though you probably haven't figured out how) !! 3% STRANGER murder... It's looking more and more like an 'inside' job....
Why don't you write a letter to the Met with your insightful deduction? I'm sure they'd be glad of your help! @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 06, 2015, 08:40:12 AM
I do...you need to look a little deeper than the figures quoted. if you look at families where children are harmed you will see some recurring traits.....parents not married so one parent and one new partner...drug abuse...criminal history...known to social services...history of abuse...etc ..
The McCanns simply do not fit into this model. So what are the statistics for the number of children harmed by parents when none of the above are present...probably zero making harm by a stranger much more likely...statistically speaking of course.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2015, 08:53:57 AM
I do...you need to look a little deeper than the figures quoted. if you look at families where children are harmed you will see some recurring traits.....parents not married so one parent and one new partner...drug abuse...criminal history...known to social services...history of abuse...etc ..
The McCanns simply do not fit into this model. So what are the statistics for the number of children harmed by parents when none of the above are present...probably zero making harm by a stranger much more likely...statistically speaking of course.
Why ?
What model are you referring to exactly ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ferryman on June 06, 2015, 09:24:51 AM
Statistics are irrelevant.
Madeleine was abducted.
Andy Redwood said so.
That some people choose to disbelieve him is their problem.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 06, 2015, 09:33:57 AM
I do...you need to look a little deeper than the figures quoted. if you look at families where children are harmed you will see some recurring traits.....parents not married so one parent and one new partner...drug abuse...criminal history...known to social services...history of abuse...etc ..
The McCanns simply do not fit into this model. So what are the statistics for the number of children harmed by parents when none of the above are present...probably zero making harm by a stranger much more likely...statistically speaking of course.
Statistics tell us that certain people are more likely to end up in gaol; people from certain ethnic minorities, drug addicts, blue collar workers. Do these people commit most crime? We don't know, it depends on the attitudes of the police and courts. A group of working class teenagers causing mayhem outside the local shops are likely to get in trouble. A group of public school boys do the same? High spirits. We all tend to make assumptions. I've lived on council estates and in detached properties and the attitude of the authorities has been noticeably different.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lyall on June 06, 2015, 09:37:04 AM
I do...you need to look a little deeper than the figures quoted. if you look at families where children are harmed you will see some recurring traits.....parents not married so one parent and one new partner...drug abuse...criminal history...known to social services...history of abuse...etc ..
The McCanns simply do not fit into this model. So what are the statistics for the number of children harmed by parents when none of the above are present...probably zero making harm by a stranger much more likely...statistically speaking of course.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2015, 11:16:07 AM
I am leaving th videos because they are heart breaking.
But they are Off Topic, so no comments please.
I will be deleting Off Topic Posts.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 06, 2015, 03:59:18 PM
Pathfinder's find is heart-breaking as regards a psychotic mother who murdered her children in their home's bathtub, but back to topic... which is (or was): The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 07, 2015, 10:58:17 AM
Oh I seem to have hit a sour note....This is evidence that there is no such thing as happy families 24/7.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 07, 2015, 11:03:04 AM
Oh I seem to have hit a sour note....This is evidence that there is no such thing as happy families 24/7.
the title is exactly right gerry and kate dont matter maddie was left to fend for herself with deadly results i personally think by mcann supporters gerry and kate get TOO much focus maddie never has sadly 8(8-))
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 07, 2015, 11:03:39 AM
So what is your conclusion? That the parents of a missing child don't matter?
Does it matter what I think? I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. If the parents were involved, like the little boy in Scotland for eg. Mother claimed he was abducted but was found dead-killed by his mother.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 07, 2015, 11:28:19 AM
Does it matter what I think? I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. If the parents were involved, like the little boy in Scotland for eg. Mother claimed he was abducted but was found dead-killed by his mother.
maddie mcann went missing because her parents lack of parental responibility the mcann supporters dont care about that and yet abuse those of us who think the mcanns are crap parents
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 07, 2015, 12:34:49 PM
Does it matter what I think? I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. If the parents were involved, like the little boy in Scotland for eg. Mother claimed he was abducted but was found dead-killed by his mother.
There are indeed some awful cases in which the parents / family have been found to be involved. But each case has to be considered individually.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 07, 2015, 12:45:57 PM
There are indeed some awful cases in which the parents / family have been found to be involved. But each case has to be considered individually.
Yes Indeed. I agree with that. Some mothers deserve pity because of their mental state at that time. Which should not be confused with outright cruelty and abuse over a period of time.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 07, 2015, 12:51:01 PM
There are indeed some awful cases in which the parents / family have been found to be involved. But each case has to be considered individually.
Very true. In this case the parents have continually reiterated their innocence and promoted the theory that their daughter was abducted. If that's true, the parents deserve support and sympathy even though their actions facilitated the crime. The problem is that their story was disbelieved by those investigating the case and is still disbelieved by members of the public. If the parents were involved in either the disappearance of their daughter or in some other cover-up then they don't deserve any support or sympathy. Take your choice.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 07, 2015, 12:52:01 PM
Yes Indeed. I agree with that. Some mothers deserve pity because of their mental state at that time. Which should not be confused with outright cruelty and abuse over a period of time.
And in yet other cases, the families had no hand in whatever happened to their missing children...
Jaycee Duggard's stepdad was apparently long assumed to have been responsible for her disappearance as he was the last one to see her getting stuffed into a car (or something similar) with no independent witnesses.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 07, 2015, 01:17:21 PM
And in yet other cases, the families had no hand in whatever happened to their missing children...
Jaycee Duggard's stepdad was apparently long assumed to have been responsible for her disappearance as he was the last one to see her getting stuffed into a car (or something similar) with no independent witnesses.
Indeed! I do believe the social services in this country get over zealous in weak cases ie children who are obese being removed from parents,but known abusers being ignored and unmonitored. If Maddie had disappeared in this country a different outcome would have been achieved.
Re G post. That is the situation the McCanns find themselves in. They are not belived by many people due to what may be nothing more than their fear of being investigated and punished for leaving Maddie alone- IF that is what happened.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 07, 2015, 04:11:08 PM
Indeed! I do believe the social services in this country get over zealous in weak cases ie children who are obese being removed from parents,but known abusers being ignored and unmonitored. If Maddie had disappeared in this country a different outcome would have been achieved.
Re G post. That is the situation the McCanns find themselves in. They are not belived by many people due to what may be nothing more than their fear of being investigated and punished for leaving Maddie alone- IF that is what happened.
Quite so. Attempting to cover up something relatively minor may have caused all their later problems.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 07, 2015, 04:19:05 PM
Quite so. Attempting to cover up something relatively minor may have caused all their later problems.
What exactly do you think they covered up? Did they ever pretend they did not leave their children alone? did not the waiters at the Tapas make statements to the effect that they regularly observed members of the group leaving to check on their children?? Did not Kate volunteer the information regarding Madeleine crying one night and asking where they were? So - what exactly do you think they are lying about?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 07, 2015, 04:36:24 PM
What exactly do you think they covered up? Did they ever pretend they did not leave their children alone? did not the waiters at the Tapas make statements to the effect that they regularly observed members of the group leaving to check on their children?? Did not Kate volunteer the information regarding Madeleine crying one night and asking where they were? So - what exactly do you think they are lying about?
They have told us things that don't make sense. Their stories have changed over time. They have offered explanations for things after the event. They have refused to answer direct questions. Why? I don't know.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 07, 2015, 04:39:52 PM
They have told us things that don't make sense. Their stories have changed over time. They have offered explanations for things after the event. They have refused to answer direct questions. Why? I don't know.
All very vague accusations. By "they" do you mean all nine members of the party? Do you or do you not accept that a) 9 different recollections will not all mesh perfectly with regard to the series of events leading up to the disappearance and b) that memories are susceptible to change as time marches on? And apart from Kate's refusal to answer 48 leading police questions whilst being interrogated as an arguido what questions have they refused to answer to your satisfaction?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 07, 2015, 04:55:54 PM
If a child had gone missing while on a school holiday / summer camp, whatever else, would there be more sympathy for parents then? If so, why? If not, why not?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 07, 2015, 05:00:34 PM
If a child had gone missing while on a school holiday / summer camp, whatever else, would there be more sympathy for parents then? If so, why? If not, why not?
Clearly. The parents are automatically excluded if the child is away from it's parents when it goes missing. When the parents are the last people to see a missing child they are automatically included in any investigations.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 10, 2015, 11:40:52 PM
What exactly do you think they covered up? Did they ever pretend they did not leave their children alone? did not the waiters at the Tapas make statements to the effect that they regularly observed members of the group leaving to check on their children?? Did not Kate volunteer the information regarding Madeleine crying one night and asking where they were? So - what exactly do you think they are lying about?
I think they are lying about the 'jemmid shutters' and open window with the whooshing curtains. My reason for that mind set is quite simple: PR ! they did not want to be scolded /arrested/ for leaving their babies and toddler alone each evening- no physical checks- no scheduled checks- unlocked apartment for easy access for any 'abductor'. What they did was cruel and disgraceful, but to invent a scenario to make it look like they were the victims of an abductor through a window, is beyond vile in many peoples minds. ( people whom I have spoken with). and they came out of that country clean as whistles- no fault -no blame- all nice and luverly.
Looks like the child does't matter...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 11, 2015, 02:31:17 AM
What exactly do you think they covered up? Did they ever pretend they did not leave their children alone? did not the waiters at the Tapas make statements to the effect that they regularly observed members of the group leaving to check on their children?? Did not Kate volunteer the information regarding Madeleine crying one night and asking where they were? So - what exactly do you think they are lying about?
Both parents on their 4 May 2007 statements say Madeleine reported the twins crying. The twins, not Madeleine.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pegasus on June 11, 2015, 03:28:13 AM
Both parents on their 4 May 2007 statements say Madeleine reported the twins crying. The twins, not Madeleine.
That fits with the statements in the files by 2 Leic Police liaison officers in PDL.
"At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ. One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening." Source: Statement of liaison officer SM
"at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ. I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared." Source: Statement of liaison officer JM
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 11, 2015, 08:09:39 AM
I think they are lying about the 'jemmid shutters' and open window with the whooshing curtains. My reason for that mind set is quite simple: PR ! they did not want to be scolded /arrested/ for leaving their babies and toddler alone each evening- no physical checks- no scheduled checks- unlocked apartment for easy access for any 'abductor'. What they did was cruel and disgraceful, but to invent a scenario to make it look like they were the victims of an abductor through a window, is beyond vile in many peoples minds. ( people whom I have spoken with). and they came out of that country clean as whistles- no fault -no blame- all nice and luverly.
Looks like the child does't matter...
Yup, the abduction scenario is the own the reflects least badly on K & G. I wonder why it is the most popular with K & G supporters? 8(0(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 11, 2015, 08:19:42 AM
so every time it's retold..it changes slightly....that isn't suspicious...it's normal
Is it normal to forget your child's (almost) last words to you? Madeleine said the twins cried. Both parents reported this to the PJ in their statements. They also told the liaison officers. At the table the night before, however, Kate told her friends a different story as Rachael reported;
Kate did, when we sat down at the table on the Thursday night. Kate said that, errm... Madeleine and Sean had cried... said they'd been crying, errm... and, you know, wondered where she was, or wondered where, you know, Mummy and Daddy were, errm.. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id242.html
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on June 11, 2015, 11:32:43 AM
Kate said Madeleine asked 'why didn't you come when Sean and me cried'.
What curtains that were open then closed?
It is changes in the story such as these which have prevented some people from empathising with the McCanns. as I have said, the parents of a stolen child matter, but this case involves a missing child who was last seen by her parents;
She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
The possible missed chance came at breakfast on the day Madeleine vanished, when the little girl disconcerted her mother by asking: ‘Why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night?’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384828/Kate-McCann-fears-daughter-Madeleine-tried-warn-intruder.html#ixzz3cko6CqHw Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn,… were closed, … whoosh … It was like a gust of wind, kinda, just blew them open http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/kate-mccann-further-re-writing-of.html
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 11, 2015, 03:18:08 PM
It is changes in the story such as these which have prevented some people from empathising with the McCanns. as I have said, the parents of a stolen child matter, but this case involves a missing child who was last seen by her parents;
She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
The possible missed chance came at breakfast on the day Madeleine vanished, when the little girl disconcerted her mother by asking: ‘Why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night?’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384828/Kate-McCann-fears-daughter-Madeleine-tried-warn-intruder.html#ixzz3cko6CqHw Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn,… were closed, … whoosh … It was like a gust of wind, kinda, just blew them open http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/kate-mccann-further-re-writing-of.html
All highly significant, I'm sure, if you could only come up with any reason at all why Kate would "change her story" about these events. Anything at all will do, you have carte blanche to invent one now, to put to the plausibility test.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2015, 03:25:11 PM
All highly significant, I'm sure, if you could only come up with any reason at all why Kate would "change her story" about these events. Anything at all will do, you have carte blanche to invent one now, to put to the plausibility test.
Only as long as it's On Topic.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 11, 2015, 03:59:15 PM
All highly significant, I'm sure, if you could only come up with any reason at all why Kate would "change her story" about these events. Anything at all will do, you have carte blanche to invent one now, to put to the plausibility test.
I prefer not to speculate because only the person involved knows why she changed her stories. I'm just pointing out that the changing stories are one of the reasons why some people aren't feeling the sympathy that others feel for these parents.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 11, 2015, 04:05:21 PM
I prefer not to speculate because only the person involved knows why she changed her stories. I'm just pointing out that the changing stories are one of the reasons why some people aren't feeling the sympathy that others feel for these parents.
Then may I respectfully suggest that those people who cannot get their heads around how an account can change subtly from the witness, to the statement taker, via the translator and back again, need to get a serious grip on reality. How anyone can claim that their sympathy for the parents of a missing child evaporated because of these slight, completely understandable (given the circumstances) discrepancies is beyond me.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 11, 2015, 05:20:47 PM
Then may I respectfully suggest that those people who cannot get their heads around how an account can change subtly from the witness, to the statement taker, via the translator and back again, need to get a serious grip on reality. How anyone can claim that their sympathy for the parents of a missing child evaporated because of these slight, completely understandable (given the circumstances) discrepancies is beyond me.
I can assure you that I have no problem in identifying what's real and what isn't. You may see changing stories as slight and understandable, I don't. There are more examples of changing stories but these two are particularly interesting because they were told so often, with actions. I wonder why, when the PJ files were examined, Kate McCann didn't notice that her story of slamming doors and closed curtains blowing in the wind contradicted what she said the morning after the event? Same with her daughter's comment, retold frequently, which was different to how she first reported it. We all have our opinions and mine is that their accounts lack credibility and therefore it's difficult to be sympathetic.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 11, 2015, 05:35:53 PM
I can assure you that I have no problem in identifying what's real and what isn't. You may see changing stories as slight and understandable, I don't. There are more examples of changing stories but these two are particularly interesting because they were told so often, with actions. I wonder why, when the PJ files were examined, Kate McCann didn't notice that her story of slamming doors and closed curtains blowing in the wind contradicted what she said the morning after the event? Same with her daughter's comment, retold frequently, which was different to how she first reported it. We all have our opinions and mine is that their accounts lack credibility and therefore it's difficult to be sympathetic.
There is no plausible, logical reason for Kate to lie about these fairly minor details, and therefore the only logical plausible explanation for the slight contradictions is human fallibility, not mendacity. Perhaps the problem here is that I see the McCanns as ordinary human beings, whilst you view them as something other, something slightly malevolent, scheming, selfish, uncaring and that is why you find it easy to disbelieve every word they say and to have no sympathy for them.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2015, 08:53:09 PM
I can assure you that I have no problem in identifying what's real and what isn't. You may see changing stories as slight and understandable, I don't. There are more examples of changing stories but these two are particularly interesting because they were told so often, with actions. I wonder why, when the PJ files were examined, Kate McCann didn't notice that her story of slamming doors and closed curtains blowing in the wind contradicted what she said the morning after the event? Same with her daughter's comment, retold frequently, which was different to how she first reported it. We all have our opinions and mine is that their accounts lack credibility and therefore it's difficult to be sympathetic.
Does this mean that you think that the parent's of this particular child don't matter?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 11, 2015, 10:05:58 PM
The parents only matter if they are suspects otherwise the child is paramount, as its not the parents who are MISSING!!!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2015, 10:46:50 PM
Then may I respectfully suggest that those people who cannot get their heads around how an account can change subtly from the witness, to the statement taker, via the translator and back again, need to get a serious grip on reality. How anyone can claim that their sympathy for the parents of a missing child evaporated because of these slight, completely understandable (given the circumstances) discrepancies is beyond me.
I agree.
IMO it is never taken into account that the files have been translated back and forth by different people - including amateurs - and that it is highly improbable that no mistakes were ever made? Even the interpretors have included notes at times saying that it was not possibe to accurately translate - and so simply did their best in the circumstances.
Also - why is the possibility of human error never taken into account? For example - much is made of Gerry's apparently 'strange' comment to Mrs. Fenn that... 'A little girl is missing' . Could he actually have said ''OUR little girl is missing' - and Mrs Fenn simply misheard him? The latter seems to make more sense to me.
If the files are accurate why would the McCanns pay £100,000 to have them professionally translated?
Treating every word in the limited number of files that we are privy to as 'gospel' and picking out a few words here and there to prove a point is a waste of time and energy IMO. We do not have the 'full set' and what we do have are not reliable enough for them to be used for such meticulous exercises IMO.
An example of how translating and retranslating can produce errors is mentioned in Kate's book about her diary which was translated from English to Portuguese and then back to English.
Quote
''I was really upset'' had become ''I was fed up''
''I never felt that relaxed'' had become 'I'd never felt so relaxed'' Unquote
In that last example by changing just two little words i.e...............
''I''..... to..... ''I'd''
and
''that''..... to.... ''so''
............the opposite meaning of what she had really said was wrongly conveyed to the reader.
In view of the above anyone claiming that 'changing stories' as shown in the files is a valid reason not to sympathise with the parents is misguided IMO.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2015, 08:43:38 AM
An eight year campaign of the type waged against Madeleine McCann's parents raises a lot of questions in my mind none more so than the ludicrous beliefs on which it based and which are the 'excuse' to get the boot in.
For example ... the new leading light has forty eight questions she would like addressed and her intellect shines clearly through each one.
&%+((£ Question 7. Where is Madeleine's pink blanket now, we know it was on her bed 4th May? &%+((£
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 12, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
SY will have them - and they are the only ones who matter.
They will also have all the files. As well as access to all the information which has come in since Madeleine's case was archived and since the case was reopened. Why anyone would think that they have superior knowledge and superior information than the PJ and SY is a mystery to me. Why they feel justified in using incomplete, flawed and poorly understood material to malign Madeleine McCann's parents in the way they have been for over eight years is an even bigger mystery.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2015, 10:03:03 AM
Surely, anything that helps removes suspicion about them is to their benefit? They have spent the money, they have a website, why not publish?
Let me see now &%+((£ ... Hmmm really going to have to give it a lot of thought why all the details of an active investigation are not published throughout the investigation ... I mean ... that is what the police do isn't it?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2015, 10:30:38 AM
Strange how one statement saying there were cigarette ends on a balcony can lead to pages of posts about just who was lurking there. Perhaps that statement was mistranslated? If we can't rely on the McCann's statements being correct then we can't rely on any of them.
Leaving the PJ files out of what about Madeleine's eye? Either she had a coloboma or she didn't. if she had the parents would have known because she would have been tested. If she didn't then they shouldn't have publicised it as a coloboma. it was on all the early posters 'Look for me'. It was included in the appeal in the Lancet;
'The McCann family has asked health professionals to look out for Madeleine McCann, a 4-year-old English girl with a coloboma of her right iris, who was abducted while on holiday in Praia Da Luz, Portugal, on May 3, 2007'
Gerry admitted he used it;
Gerry McCann: "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy."
Then they spoke to Piers Morgan;
K. MCCANN: If I'm honest, we haven't put too much emphasis on her eye, because I think you have to be very close to her to see it. But her eyes are slightly different colors, and one of them has this brown fleck in it. But you do notice, particularly on photographs, but --
MORGAN: Slightly distinctive eye colors and a little fleck.
MORGAN: And do you know if that would be still there if she's now eight years old?
G. MCCANN: Certainly believe it wouldn't have changed. I think there's been a pattern to be still there. That it's -- the technical term is coloboma, where there's a defect in the iris. I don't think it is actually. I think it's actually an additional bit of color. She certainly had no visual problems.
For years people have been looking for a child with a quite distinctive line in her eye which has suddenly become 'a little fleck'. Not much chance of her being identified then? It is strange tales such as these which have led to people doubting the McCanns and wondering about them. Sympathy is not forthcoming unless honesty is observed imo.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 12, 2015, 10:54:53 AM
Strange how one statement saying there were cigarette ends on a balcony can lead to pages of posts about just who was lurking there. Perhaps that statement was mistranslated? If we can't rely on the McCann's statements being correct then we can't rely on any of them.
Leaving the PJ files out of what about Madeleine's eye? Either she had a coloboma or she didn't. if she had the parents would have known because she would have been tested. If she didn't then they shouldn't have publicised it as a coloboma. it was on all the early posters 'Look for me'. It was included in the appeal in the Lancet;
'The McCann family has asked health professionals to look out for Madeleine McCann, a 4-year-old English girl with a coloboma of her right iris, who was abducted while on holiday in Praia Da Luz, Portugal, on May 3, 2007'
Gerry admitted he used it;
Gerry McCann: "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy."
Then they spoke to Piers Morgan;
K. MCCANN: If I'm honest, we haven't put too much emphasis on her eye, because I think you have to be very close to her to see it. But her eyes are slightly different colors, and one of them has this brown fleck in it. But you do notice, particularly on photographs, but --
MORGAN: Slightly distinctive eye colors and a little fleck.
MORGAN: And do you know if that would be still there if she's now eight years old?
G. MCCANN: Certainly believe it wouldn't have changed. I think there's been a pattern to be still there. That it's -- the technical term is coloboma, where there's a defect in the iris. I don't think it is actually. I think it's actually an additional bit of color. She certainly had no visual problems.
For years people have been looking for a child with a quite distinctive line in her eye which has suddenly become 'a little fleck'. Not much chance of her being identified then? It is strange tales such as these which have led to people doubting the McCanns and wondering about them. Sympathy is not forthcoming unless honesty is observed imo.
[/b]
We have all seen the photograph showing a defect in one eye. What does it matter if it is called a coloboma, a little fleck, a distinctive line or a defect? We all know she has one - so what difference does it's description make in the grand scheme of things? Are you saying that because of the different ways it has been described that people will no longer regard it as a means of identification? Surely not.
Sorry G-Unit but this is pure nitpicking IMO.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 12, 2015, 11:29:45 AM
Let me see now &%+((£ ... Hmmm really going to have to give it a lot of thought why all the details of an active investigation are not published throughout the investigation ... I mean ... that is what the police do isn't it?
That is a complete non sequitur, the translations were publish, why not the McCann translations? Nothing to do with active investigations.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2015, 11:38:55 AM
Strange how one statement saying there were cigarette ends on a balcony can lead to pages of posts about just who was lurking there. Perhaps that statement was mistranslated? If we can't rely on the McCann's statements being correct then we can't rely on any of them.
Leaving the PJ files out of what about Madeleine's eye? Either she had a coloboma or she didn't. if she had the parents would have known because she would have been tested. If she didn't then they shouldn't have publicised it as a coloboma. it was on all the early posters 'Look for me'. It was included in the appeal in the Lancet;
'The McCann family has asked health professionals to look out for Madeleine McCann, a 4-year-old English girl with a coloboma of her right iris, who was abducted while on holiday in Praia Da Luz, Portugal, on May 3, 2007'
Gerry admitted he used it;
Gerry McCann: "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy."
Then they spoke to Piers Morgan;
K. MCCANN: If I'm honest, we haven't put too much emphasis on her eye, because I think you have to be very close to her to see it. But her eyes are slightly different colors, and one of them has this brown fleck in it. But you do notice, particularly on photographs, but --
MORGAN: Slightly distinctive eye colors and a little fleck.
MORGAN: And do you know if that would be still there if she's now eight years old?
G. MCCANN: Certainly believe it wouldn't have changed. I think there's been a pattern to be still there. That it's -- the technical term is coloboma, where there's a defect in the iris. I don't think it is actually. I think it's actually an additional bit of color. She certainly had no visual problems.
For years people have been looking for a child with a quite distinctive line in her eye which has suddenly become 'a little fleck'. Not much chance of her being identified then? It is strange tales such as these which have led to people doubting the McCanns and wondering about them. Sympathy is not forthcoming unless honesty is observed imo.
I've been unable to find the quote you have used coming from the horse's mouth ... plenty of attributes on various sites ... wonder if you can help with a proper cite you have it in quotation marks so he must have said it or something approximating it ... but where?
Gerry admitted he used it; Gerry McCann: "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy."
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 12, 2015, 11:53:43 AM
Strange how one statement saying there were cigarette ends on a balcony can lead to pages of posts about just who was lurking there. Perhaps that statement was mistranslated? If we can't rely on the McCann's statements being correct then we can't rely on any of them.
Leaving the PJ files out of what about Madeleine's eye? Either she had a coloboma or she didn't. if she had the parents would have known because she would have been tested. If she didn't then they shouldn't have publicised it as a coloboma. it was on all the early posters 'Look for me'. It was included in the appeal in the Lancet;
'The McCann family has asked health professionals to look out for Madeleine McCann, a 4-year-old English girl with a coloboma of her right iris, who was abducted while on holiday in Praia Da Luz, Portugal, on May 3, 2007'
Gerry admitted he used it;
Gerry McCann: "We thought it was possible this could hurt her. Her abductor might do something to her eye. But in marketing terms it was a good ploy."
Then they spoke to Piers Morgan;
K. MCCANN: If I'm honest, we haven't put too much emphasis on her eye, because I think you have to be very close to her to see it. But her eyes are slightly different colors, and one of them has this brown fleck in it. But you do notice, particularly on photographs, but --
MORGAN: Slightly distinctive eye colors and a little fleck.
MORGAN: And do you know if that would be still there if she's now eight years old?
G. MCCANN: Certainly believe it wouldn't have changed. I think there's been a pattern to be still there. That it's -- the technical term is coloboma, where there's a defect in the iris. I don't think it is actually. I think it's actually an additional bit of color. She certainly had no visual problems.
For years people have been looking for a child with a quite distinctive line in her eye which has suddenly become 'a little fleck'. Not much chance of her being identified then? It is strange tales such as these which have led to people doubting the McCanns and wondering about them. Sympathy is not forthcoming unless honesty is observed imo.
These days coloboma is hidden by cosmetic prosthetic lenses
Tell a little girl like Madeleine that they are very pretty but they have "snake" eyes or something similar and she would soon be happily wanting cosmetic cover ups. Any colour she liked !
I am afraid that no longer can the coloboma, whether fleck or line, be relied upon as an instant identification feature. And neither can the eye colour.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2015, 12:23:26 PM
That is a complete non sequitur, the translations were publish, why not the McCann translations? Nothing to do with active investigations.
There is absolutely no precedent for information on an active police investigation to be published on the internet and it is the height of presumption to think it should.
But hey ... why should another preposterous assertion be ignored if it can be twisted to criticise Madeleine' parents?
If you are so keen to have information published on the internet ... why not give a thought to the PJGA Fund?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 12, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
Surely, anything that helps removes suspicion about them is to their benefit? They have spent the money, they have a website, why not publish?
Slartibarti, I doubt the McCanns are really all that bothered that you think they are guilty, but please be honest even if every mistranslation was corrected and published it wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference to you or the "sceptic" community. There would always be the dogs, the Smiths, the Gaspar statement to fall back on.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 12, 2015, 05:56:19 PM
What about actually addressing the point I made in my post? Would correctly translated files clearing up some of the anomalies make any difference whatsoever to your opinion of the McCanns?
If the answer is no then perhaps you can tell us why you believe that releasing correctly translated files for the general public's benefit would benefit the McCanns?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 12, 2015, 06:06:18 PM
Releasing the "professionally" translated files would show the general public what the truth is which is what it is all about. It was never about the money.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 12, 2015, 06:14:12 PM
Releasing the "professionally" translated files would show the general public what the truth is which is what it is all about. It was never about the money.
You think the "general public" gives a toss?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2015, 09:00:07 PM
TOPIC. PLEASE. 8)--))
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carew on June 12, 2015, 09:44:12 PM
What about actually addressing the point I made in my post? Would correctly translated files clearing up some of the anomalies make any difference whatsoever to your opinion of the McCanns?
If the answer is no then perhaps you can tell us why you believe that releasing correctly translated files for the general public's benefit would benefit the McCanns?
It's possible, I am a sceptic which means uncertainty.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 12, 2015, 10:41:03 PM
It's possible, I am a sceptic which means uncertainty.
I you're a sceptic then you would have to concede that accepted belief is that Madeleine was abducted, ergo no need for the McCanns to try and convince your type of anything.
Sceptic:
n 1. (Philosophy) a person who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs 2. a person who mistrusts people, ideas, etc, in general 3. (Philosophy) a person who doubts the truth of religion, esp Christianity
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 13, 2015, 06:27:31 AM
I you're a sceptic then you would have to concede that accepted belief is that Madeleine was abducted, ergo no need for the McCanns to try and convince your type of anything.
Sceptic:
n 1. (Philosophy) a person who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs 2. a person who mistrusts people, ideas, etc, in general 3. (Philosophy) a person who doubts the truth of religion, esp Christianity
History is full of accepted beliefs that have been proved wrong.
P.S. You could also have...
Quote
Skepticism or scepticism (see spelling differences) is generally any questioning attitude towards unempirical knowledge or opinions/beliefs stated as facts,[1] or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere.[2]
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 06:43:21 AM
If no-one had ever challenged accepted beliefs we would all still believe the earth was flat. It's part of human nature to ask questions. In this case there is no proof that the 'accepted belief' in abduction is true. In fact there are indications that something else may have happened. That makes people wonder why the McCanns refuse to consider other options to the point that they will sue anyone who puts forward an alternative theory. People wonder why the parents hired private investigators instead of letting the police get on with their jobs. People wonder why the parent's paid out lots of money hiring PR spokespeople. For some, the parents didn't behave like people whose child had been stolen. Hence the lack of sympathy.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 08:13:12 AM
If no-one had ever challenged accepted beliefs we would all still believe the earth was flat. It's part of human nature to ask questions. In this case there is no proof that the 'accepted belief' in abduction is true. In fact there are indications that something else may have happened. That makes people wonder why the McCanns refuse to consider other options to the point that they will sue anyone who puts forward an alternative theory. People wonder why the parents hired private investigators instead of letting the police get on with their jobs. People wonder why the parent's paid out lots of money hiring PR spokespeople. For some, the parents didn't behave like people whose child had been stolen. Hence the lack of sympathy.
What sort of behaviour is expected of parents whose child has been stolen ... is there a handbook of guidelines for them to consult?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 08:25:42 AM
What sort of behaviour is expected of parents whose child has been stolen ... is there a handbook of guidelines for them to consult?
I don't know Brietta, but I do know that the McCanns have failed to convince some people. It's just one of the reasons why people doubt them and therefore don't sympathise, which is the subject I was addressing.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 08:37:15 AM
History is full of accepted beliefs that have been proved wrong.
P.S. You could also have...
All true but beside the point I was making. Currently the accepted belief is that Madeleine was abducted. That being the case there is currently no onus on the McCanns to try and win over the minority who don't accept it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 09:59:20 AM
I don't know Brietta, but I do know that the McCanns have failed to convince some people. It's just one of the reasons why people doubt them and therefore don't sympathise, which is the subject I was addressing.
That the McCanns have failed to convince you is patently obvious ... then why should anyone think you know better than Scotland Yard and the Polícia Judiciária?
You are unable to define what the behaviour of parents whose child had been stolen should be ... yet you use it pejoratively in your argument. Odd.
The main thing is that Madeleine is being looked for and looked for officially ... a situation which hasn't been happening since Mr Amaral first promulgated his theory and decided her parents dunnit whatever 'it' may have been.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 13, 2015, 11:15:11 AM
All true but beside the point I was making. Currently the accepted belief is that Madeleine was abducted. That being the case there is currently no onus on the McCanns to try and win over the minority who don't accept it.
They just financially beat them up instead.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM
All true but beside the point I was making. Currently the accepted belief is that Madeleine was abducted. That being the case there is currently no onus on the McCanns to try and win over the minority who don't accept it.
Really, so a belief carries more weight than evidence then. 8(0(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
That the McCanns have failed to convince you is patently obvious ... then why should anyone think you know better than Scotland Yard and the Polícia Judiciária?
You are unable to define what the behaviour of parents whose child had been stolen should be ... yet you use it pejoratively in your argument. Odd.
The main thing is that Madeleine is being looked for and looked for officially ... a situation which hasn't been happening since Mr Amaral first promulgated his theory and decided her parents dunnit whatever 'it' may have been.
As we don't know what SY and the PJ are thinking there's not a lot of point in mentioning them. If SY have been looking for Madeleine then they seem to have suspected she may have been hiding underground in PdL. The theory was not Snr Amaral's theory it was the theory of the team. The investigators continued to investigate until 2008 after he was taken off the investigation. I don't need to explain how parents of a stolen child should behave because all I'm saying is that some people think their behaviour wasn't quite right. Their views can be seen on all those websites which keep being mentioned.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 12:39:12 PM
As we don't know what SY and the PJ are thinking there's not a lot of point in mentioning them. If SY have been looking for Madeleine then they seem to have suspected she may have been hiding underground in PdL. The theory was not Snr Amaral's theory it was the theory of the team. The investigators continued to investigate until 2008 after he was taken off the investigation. I don't need to explain how parents of a stolen child should behave because all I'm saying is that some people think their behaviour wasn't quite right. Their views can be seen on all those websites which keep being mentioned.
Please let us get one thing straight and put your reasoning and your suspicions and just plain distaste for Madeleine McCann's parents into proper perspective.
In 2015 Scotland Yard and the Polícia Judiciária are still playing 'catch up' with ignored evidence stemming from the botched investigation of 2007. They have absolutely no interest in Madeleine McCann's parents ... and there are arguidos in the case, who under the law advantage of which the McCanns were denied, could only be made arguidos on the basis of evidence to enable it.
Your views ~ my views ~ the views of other armchair detectives on whichever website ~ mean absolutely nothing at all: all hot air. The only people who matter in this are the professionals ... that what they have said and what they are doing doesn't fit your particular agenda is a problem for you ... and even more of a problem for anyone associated with the crime against Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 13, 2015, 12:52:17 PM
Please let us get one thing straight and put your reasoning and your suspicions and just plain distaste for Madeleine McCann's parents into proper perspective.
In 2015 Scotland Yard and the Polícia Judiciária are still playing 'catch up' with ignored evidence stemming from the botched investigation of 2007. They have absolutely no interest in Madeleine McCann's parents ... and there are arguidos in the case, who under the law advantage of which the McCanns were denied, could only be made arguidos on the basis of evidence to enable it.
Your views ~ my views ~ the views of other armchair detectives on whichever website ~ mean absolutely nothing at all: all hot air. The only people who matter in this are the professionals ... that what they have said and what they are doing doesn't fit your particular agenda is a problem for you ... and even more of a problem for anyone associated with the crime against Madeleine McCann.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to demonstrate the veracity of that statement. It could otherwise be just another of your unsubstantiated assertions. Ignoring for a moment the wonderfully emotive terms you tend to use are you seriously suggesting that after four years of Met Review and two years of Portuguese review they are not even in square one yet?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 13, 2015, 01:55:36 PM
All true but beside the point I was making. Currently the accepted belief is that Madeleine was abducted. That being the case there is currently no onus on the McCanns to try and win over the minority who don't accept it.
How do you know it is a minority ?
i.e. Who do you think this majority are who believe in 'abduction' ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 02:09:05 PM
Please let us get one thing straight and put your reasoning and your suspicions and just plain distaste for Madeleine McCann's parents into proper perspective.
In 2015 Scotland Yard and the Polícia Judiciária are still playing 'catch up' with ignored evidence stemming from the botched investigation of 2007. They have absolutely no interest in Madeleine McCann's parents ... and there are arguidos in the case, who under the law advantage of which the McCanns were denied, could only be made arguidos on the basis of evidence to enable it.
Your views ~ my views ~ the views of other armchair detectives on whichever website ~ mean absolutely nothing at all: all hot air. The only people who matter in this are the professionals ... that what they have said and what they are doing doesn't fit your particular agenda is a problem for you ... and even more of a problem for anyone associated with the crime against Madeleine McCann.
I'm only saying what people think. I wonder why it upsets you so much? Denying it or attacking me won't change anyone's opinions, but, as you say, our opinions are just so much hot air. My only agenda is to remind people that the parents have behaved in such a way as to arouse suspicion. You assume that what the police are doing fits your agenda, but as they haven't said I don't know how you can claim to be so sure.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 02:12:33 PM
I'm only saying what people think. I wonder why it upsets you so much? Denying it or attacking me won't change anyone's opinions, but, as you say, our opinions are just so much hot air. My only agenda is to remind people that the parents have behaved in such a way as to arouse suspicion. You assume that what the police are doing fits your agenda, but as they haven't said I don't know how you can claim to be so sure.
Re: the bit in bold: why do you feel it is incumbent on you to do this?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 02:18:26 PM
Perhaps you would be kind enough to demonstrate the veracity of that statement. It could otherwise be just another of your unsubstantiated assertions. Ignoring for a moment the wonderfully emotive terms you tend to use are you seriously suggesting that after four years of Met Review and two years of Portuguese review they are not even in square one yet?
What requires verification?
£5%4%
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 03:21:16 PM
I'm only saying what people think. I wonder why it upsets you so much? Denying it or attacking me won't change anyone's opinions, but, as you say, our opinions are just so much hot air. My only agenda is to remind people that the parents have behaved in such a way as to arouse suspicion. You assume that what the police are doing fits your agenda, but as they haven't said I don't know how you can claim to be so sure.
Are you too embarrassed to say it is what you think too ... or just another display of "a big boy did it and ran away" syndrome?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 13, 2015, 03:23:03 PM
That The Met are still playing "catch up" in 2015. They are very slow by your reckoning then? So it is just another unsubstantiated assertion from the "Desk of Brietta".
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 04:28:44 PM
That The Met are still playing "catch up" in 2015. They are very slow by your reckoning then? So it is just another unsubstantiated assertion from the "Desk of Brietta".
Do make up your mind ... you object to huge cut and paste attributed posts ... and you object to "Desk of Brietta" ones. One can only surmise it is because you have no answer to either as you have illustrated above.
The hostility directed towards Madeleine McCann's parents seems to have blinded you and others to the positive aspects of the investigation into her case ... and they are still investigating.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 13, 2015, 04:45:59 PM
Do make up your mind ... you object to huge cut and paste attributed posts ... and you object to "Desk of Brietta" ones. One can only surmise it is because you have no answer to either as you have illustrated above.
The hostility directed towards Madeleine McCann's parents seems to have blinded you and others to the positive aspects of the investigation into her case ... and they are still investigating.
So you can't substantiate your assertion that The Met are playing catch up. A simple "I can't substantiate it" would have done. There's nothing embarrassing about making a mistake. Do you remember the old saw " a person who has never made a mistake has never made anything"?. Or are you one of the types who professes a batting average of 0.400?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 07:00:53 PM
Are you too embarrassed to say it is what you think too ... or just another display of "a big boy did it and ran away" syndrome?
I keep my opinions to myself and leave it to others to trumpet theirs far and wide. I doubt that the MacCanns have told the whole truth, but I don't know why they didn't. I doubt that those investigating the case have told anyone what they're thinking, which is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2015, 07:09:20 PM
I keep my opinions to myself and leave it to others to trumpet theirs far and wide. I doubt that the MacCanns have told the whole truth, but I don't know why they didn't. I doubt that those investigating the case have told anyone what they're thinking, which is the right thing to do.
I would say the McCanns have told the truth and don't see why they haven't...I don't see any way they are covering up Maddie's fate
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 07:14:59 PM
I keep my opinions to myself and leave it to others to trumpet theirs far and wide. I doubt that the MacCanns have told the whole truth, but I don't know why they didn't. I doubt that those investigating the case have told anyone what they're thinking, which is the right thing to do.
If the McCanns HAVE told the whole truth and are at some point in the future completely and utterly proven to have had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance then how will you feel about those who have repeatedly pointed the finger and voiced their suspicion as widely as possible for the last 8 years?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 07:33:20 PM
If the McCanns HAVE told the whole truth and are at some point in the future completely and utterly proven to have had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance then how will you feel about those who have repeatedly pointed the finger and voiced their suspicion as widely as possible for the last 8 years?
Probably the same way I feel now. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion and debating with others. It's wrong to call people names whoever they are (even foreign policemen lol)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 07:37:54 PM
Probably the same way I feel now. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion and debating with others. It's wrong to call people names whoever they are (even foreign policemen lol)
So, you think the campaign of suspicion against the parents of a missing child is perfectly justifiable whether they are innocent or guilty. I see.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 08:33:06 PM
I keep my opinions to myself and leave it to others to trumpet theirs far and wide. I doubt that the MacCanns have told the whole truth, but I don't know why they didn't. I doubt that those investigating the case have told anyone what they're thinking, which is the right thing to do.
I'm terribly sorry ... I just do not understand it when you say ... "I keep my opinions to myself and leave it to others to trumpet theirs far and wide."
In what way does that tie in with what you are posting on a discussion forum? You post nothing of you? ... everything you post is someone else's opinion?
I think that would be a mind blowing assertion if I could comprehend it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2015, 09:31:41 PM
I'm terribly sorry ... I just do not understand it when you say ... "I keep my opinions to myself and leave it to others to trumpet theirs far and wide."
In what way does that tie in with what you are posting on a discussion forum? You post nothing of you? ... everything you post is someone else's opinion?
I think that would be a mind blowing assertion if I could comprehend it.
Why is it so hard to understand? I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann. I have doubts about the story promoted by the parents, and I point that out and that I'm not the only one. I see no point in posting anything of 'me'; I don't even know how to do that. My opinion is of no use at all, nor is anyone else's. I prefer to post about facts if I can, and I do try not to add my own opinion of why something happened.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 10:26:56 PM
So, you think the campaign of suspicion against the parents of a missing child is perfectly justifiable whether they are innocent or guilty. I see.
What is a "campaign of suspicion" when its at home? Unless you think all people are ignorant sheep that is a very odd phrase. There is no crime committed when someone is suspicious. Its the modus operandi of LE worldwide and many others.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 10:29:03 PM
Why is it so hard to understand? I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann. I have doubts about the story promoted by the parents, and I point that out and that I'm not the only one. I see no point in posting anything of 'me'; I don't even know how to do that. My opinion is of no use at all, nor is anyone else's. I prefer to post about facts if I can, and I do try not to add my own opinion of why something happened.
Its terribly sad when one is lambasted for having a suspicion/view/freedom of thought and speech, what was that about cults the other day? @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 10:40:22 PM
What is a "campaign of suspicion" when its at home? Unless you think all people are ignorant sheep that is a very odd phrase. There is no crime committed when someone is suspicious. Its the modus operandi of LE worldwide and many others.
Another one who refuses to acknowledge the 8 year plus campaign to try and convince as many people as possible that the McCanns dunnit.. ?8)@)-)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 10:49:22 PM
Why is it so hard to understand? I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann. I have doubts about the story promoted by the parents, and I point that out and that I'm not the only one. I see no point in posting anything of 'me'; I don't even know how to do that. My opinion is of no use at all, nor is anyone else's. I prefer to post about facts if I can, and I do try not to add my own opinion of why something happened.
No-one on this forum or any other knows what happened to Madeleine McCann unless s/he is the perpetrator of the crime. "Doubting" the victims of the crime while propagating many of the myths and misinformation which have been doing the rounds for over eight years ... may be what is considered a 'polite' way of hounding and harassing them. It is risible to claim you have no opinion ... or perhaps on occasion you would actually find a fact which shone a positive light on the victims of the crime ... rather than the 'doubters' litany of your preference.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 10:57:25 PM
Well do you acknowledge there has been a concerted effort to spread suspicion of the McCanns or not?
As opposed to a massive concerted effort to convince people they are innocent? You mean. LOL Answer to your question is No by the way...it makes me shudder to think anyone would want to silence people voicing their thoughts in a so called democratic free country under the bullying and threats, quite shocking really, and took large amounts of money out of the Madeleine Fund to boot
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2015, 11:00:07 PM
Another one who refuses to acknowledge the 8 year plus campaign to try and convince as many people as possible that the McCanns dunnit.. ?8)@)-)
I think deep, deep down there is a small flicker of recognition that what has been happening to Madeleine McCann's parents is vile and beyond the pale ... that is why participants take pains to disassociate from it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
No-one on this forum or any other knows what happened to Madeleine McCann unless s/he is the perpetrator of the crime. "Doubting" the victims of the crime while propagating many of the myths and misinformation which have been doing the rounds for over eight years ... may be what is considered a 'polite' way of hounding and harassing them. It is risible to claim you have no opinion ... or perhaps on occasion you would actually find a fact which shone a positive light on the victims of the crime ... rather than the 'doubters' litany of your preference.
Dont make your assumptions seem like fact please. You have no proof the Mccanns are victims of a crime as you said in your very first words of your post, no one knows.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 11:03:12 PM
Dont make your assumptions seem like fact please. You have no proof the Mccanns are victims of a crime as you said in your very first words of your post, no one knows.
how about giving them the benefit of the doubt then?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 11:05:55 PM
how about giving them the benefit of the doubt then?
Oh,dear Alfred, if only you knew how many times I have. That nagging voice though always tells me something smells. And I want to know what it is if thats Ok with you. You are at liberty though to completely believe the narrative. your life, your choice.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 13, 2015, 11:17:05 PM
Oh,dear Alfred, if only you knew how many times I have. That nagging voice though always tells me something smells. And I want to know what it is if thats Ok with you. You are at liberty though to completely believe the narrative. your life, your choice.
You're very kind, but not kind enough sadly to give the parents of a missing child the benefit of the doubt. So, carry on slagging them off, it clearly enriches your life somehow.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2015, 08:28:32 AM
No-one on this forum or any other knows what happened to Madeleine McCann unless s/he is the perpetrator of the crime. "Doubting" the victims of the crime while propagating many of the myths and misinformation which have been doing the rounds for over eight years ... may be what is considered a 'polite' way of hounding and harassing them. It is risible to claim you have no opinion ... or perhaps on occasion you would actually find a fact which shone a positive light on the victims of the crime ... rather than the 'doubters' litany of your preference.
I don't know what the 'myths and misinformation' you refer to are (nicely alliterative). I try to provide cites for what I say rather than propagating my own opinions, so how is that 'hounding and harassing' anyone?(more nice alliteration). There's enough people on here attempting to shine a positive light on the McCanns, mainly by giving us their opinions on why the McCanns did or said something which seems strange. As we have no idea what crime has been committed we don't yet know who the victims are, apart from Madeleine of course.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 14, 2015, 08:51:14 AM
I don't know what the 'myths and misinformation' you refer to are (nicely alliterative). I try to provide cites for what I say rather than propagating my own opinions, so how is that 'hounding and harassing' anyone?(more nice alliteration). There's enough people on here attempting to shine a positive light on the McCanns, mainly by giving us their opinions on why the McCanns did or said something which seems strange. As we have no idea what crime has been committed we don't yet know who the victims are, apart from Madeleine of course.
so basically according to you and Stephen ...we are all suspects until it is proven we are not involved...good job SY have more than a little more sense than you two
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2015, 09:28:15 AM
so basically according to you and Stephen ...we are all suspects until it is proven we are not involved...good job SY have more than a little more sense than you two
I've noticed you keep calling Stephen stupid. I don't hand out insults, but the above statement calls into serious question your high opinion of your intellectual prowess. Neither I nor Stephen has ever said that as far as I know. Good job SY have 'more than a little more sense than you'. There have been suspects in this case but they couldn't be charged due to lack of evidence.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 14, 2015, 09:35:07 AM
I've noticed you keep calling Stephen stupid. I don't hand out insults, but the above statement calls into serious question your high opinion of your intellectual prowess. Neither I nor Stephen has ever said that as far as I know. Good job SY have 'more than a little more sense than you'. There have been suspects in this case but they couldn't be charged due to lack of evidence.
I think it shows how little understanding of the case both you and Stephen have...the fact that SY have not publicly ruled out alien abduction ...and the fact that the crime is unknown ...does not mean that alien abduction is considered a possibility. It should be obvious...even to you...that if SY have ruled out the parents...which they have told us they have.....then the options as to what happened to Maddie are limited
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2015, 09:46:49 AM
I think it shows how little understanding of the case both you and Stephen have...the fact that SY have not publicly ruled out alien abduction ...and the fact that the crime is unknown ...does not mean that alien abduction is considered a possibility. It should be obvious...even to you...that if SY have ruled out the parents...which they have told us they have.....then the options as to what happened to Maddie are limited
Well, the PJ said they weren't suspects and then questioned them as arguidos. I'm sure SY wouldn't be so devious as to tell us two years ago that the parents weren't suspects and then change their minds. It should be obvious 'even to you' that investigations develop and the police don't always tell us what they really think. It seems somewhat desperate to me to keep clinging to something said by a DCI two years ago who is now retired. His replacement has said........?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 14, 2015, 10:10:56 AM
Well, the PJ said they weren't suspects and then questioned them as arguidos. I'm sure SY wouldn't be so devious as to tell us two years ago that the parents weren't suspects and then change their minds. It should be obvious 'even to you' that investigations develop and the police don't always tell us what they really think. It seems somewhat desperate to me to keep clinging to something said by a DCI two years ago who is now retired. His replacement has said........?
I'm not placing my belief on that one statement...it's the statement plus the activity of the police since the statement....it is desperation by you to think that some new evidence has come to light ...but never mind tick tock...it took 150 years for Galilleo to be proved right according to one prominent amaral supporter...so only 143 years to go before the mccanns are arrested...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 14, 2015, 10:37:26 AM
I think deep, deep down there is a small flicker of recognition that what has been happening to Madeleine McCann's parents is vile and beyond the pale ... that is why participants take pains to disassociate from it.
Your 'thoughts' are interesting- thanks for sharing, however, you would also be invited to understand there is no flicker anywhere I discuss this mystery. Facts are facts- the parents created the situation which left a child in a place yet unknown to the police.. That is their story. Not everyone beileves in the abduction- so no flickering and no shying away- I do not beleive in the stranger abduction via a jemmied window theory being put about by the parents!
Is that non flickering enough?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2015, 10:44:15 AM
Your 'thoughts' are interesting- thanks for sharing, however, you would also be invited to understand there is no flicker anywhere I discuss this mystery. Facts are facts- the parents created the situation which left a child in a place yet unknown to the police.. That is their story. Not everyone beileves in the abduction- so no flickering and no shying away- I do not beleive in the stranger abduction via a jemmied window theory being put about by the parents!
Is that non flickering enough?
Good rebuttal! Why do people insist on telling us what we think and feel? 8((()*/
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2015, 10:48:00 AM
Topic. Please.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2015, 11:17:29 AM
I also don't believe in the stranger abduction as proposed by the parents. They should have left the investigating to those qualified to do it. For all their efforts to drive the investigation, if that's what they were doing, nothing was achieved. They were arrogant and dismissive of the police force in Portugal from the moment they met them. They courted the press and then complained about them. Had they been a little more restrained they may not have raised doubts. Consequently the lack of sympathy is, at least in part, their own fault.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 14, 2015, 11:21:35 AM
I also don't believe in the stranger abduction as proposed by the parents. They should have left the investigating to those qualified to do it. For all their efforts to drive the investigation, if that's what they were doing, nothing was achieved. They were arrogant and dismissive of the police force in Portugal from the moment they met them. They courted the press and then complained about them. Had they been a little more restrained they may not have raised doubts. Consequently the lack of sympathy is, at least in part, their own fault.
Stranger abduction is proposed by the Met. They are qualified investigators Do you not believe in them either?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 14, 2015, 11:26:23 AM
Basically what G-Unit is saying is that if the McCanns had remained quiet shadowy figures who never appeared in the press, did nothing to promote their daughter's disappearance, went along with everything the PJ accused them of, never fought any battles along the way, then she might have sympathy for them. Yeah, right. G Unit is similar to so many online commentators these days who simply love to blame the victims for their own problems and tragedies. I'm not sure if this is a relatively new phenomenon or just an aspect of human nature that hadn't been quite so obvious until the arrival of the internet.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2015, 02:32:08 PM
Basically what G-Unit is saying is that if the McCanns had remained quiet shadowy figures who never appeared in the press, did nothing to promote their daughter's disappearance, went along with everything the PJ accused them of, never fought any battles along the way, then she might have sympathy for them. Yeah, right. G Unit is similar to so many online commentators these days who simply love to blame the victims for their own problems and tragedies. I'm not sure if this is a relatively new phenomenon or just an aspect of human nature that hadn't been quite so obvious until the arrival of the internet.
You have an uncanny ability to read something and completely misunderstand it. I see no need to sympathise with the McCanns because it has yet to be seen if they are victims. The only basis anyone has for saying they are is an out-of-date statement by DCI Redwood.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 14, 2015, 02:35:19 PM
You have an uncanny ability to read something and completely misunderstand it. I see no need to sympathise with the McCanns because it has yet to be seen if they are victims. The only basis anyone has for saying they are is an out-of-date statement by DCI Redwood.
maddie is the one who paid the price not gerry and kate
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 14, 2015, 02:56:35 PM
If you had disappeared, Carly, wouldn't you hope that your parents were supported in helping to find you? Or not?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 15, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
Stranger abduction is proposed by the Met. They are qualified investigators Do you not believe in them either?
Everyone in the Met? or just DCI Redwood- who is no longer there. AND, if he was so sure then what is stopping with the arrests of the criminals-what is holding them back? Answers on a postcard...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 15, 2015, 11:54:32 PM
Everyone in the Met? or just DCI Redwood- who is no longer there. AND, if he was so sure then what is stopping with the arrests of the criminals-what is holding them back? Answers on a postcard...
Ah, I think that I know the answer to that, but sorry I cant share it ?{)(**
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 16, 2015, 08:10:21 PM
No, I don't think you do Sadie. The 'they are jews names' just won't cut it sorry. dream on...
There have been no charges brought against anyone!
That is about the jist of it.
That is just an observation and may mean nothing. I have become very interested in Judaism since I discovered that I am almost certainly a Jewess .... something I never knew until about 9 months ago. And I notice people and places associated with Judism now.
The case is littered with people with Jewish names, most especially the senior PJ officers starting with Guilherminho Encarnacao , thru Goncalo de Sousa Amaral and several other PJ senior Officers. Each part of Guilherminhos name and Amarals name is Jewish... even de Sousa and Goncalo ....so they are pure blood, almost without doubt.
Also all the missing children thought abducted, seven of them, appear to have Jewish names; that is with the exception of Rene Hassee. I am not sure about him.
BTW, did you know that just over 2 miles north of Pdl, there is a village called Monte Judeu (Jewish Mountain) In the same area, there is also a range of hills called Monte Judeu.
Co-incidences do happen, but there are an awful lot of Jewish coincidences here ... and I think that I am right to note these strange co-incidences..
Especially as Madeleine BETH Mccann is almost certainly pure blood Jewish and we are interested in what happened to her.
Do YOU think that I ought to hide these coincidences ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2015, 10:03:34 AM
That is just an observation and may mean nothing. I have become very interested in Judaism since I discovered that I am almost certainly a Jewess .... something I never knew until about 9 months ago. And I notice people and places associated with Judism now.
The case is littered with people with Jewish names, most especially the senior PJ officers starting with Guilherminho Encarnacao , thru Goncalo de Sousa Amaral and several other PJ senior Officers. Each part of Guilherminhos name and Amarals name is Jewish... even de Sousa and Goncalo ....so they are pure blood, almost without doubt.
Also all the missing children thought abducted, seven of them, appear to have Jewish names; that is with the exception of Rene Hassee. I am not sure about him.
BTW, did you know that just over 2 miles north of Pdl, there is a village called Monte Judeu (Jewish Mountain) In the same area, there is also a range of hills called Monte Judeu.
Co-incidences do happen, but there are an awful lot of Jewish coincidences here ... and I think that I am right to note these strange co-incidences..
Especially as Madeleine BETH Mccann is almost certainly pure blood Jewish and we are interested in what happened to her.
Do YOU think that I ought to hide these coincidences ?
I thought the McCanns and Healeys were of Irish/Scottish catholic stock? How is Madeleine Jewish?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 17, 2015, 10:06:42 AM
Is Gerry circumcised? We demand to know @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 10:07:19 AM
I thought the McCanns and Healeys were of Irish/Scottish catholic stock? How is Madeleine Jewish?
Lost tribe of Israel ??
In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.
—Isaiah 11:11
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 10:42:10 AM
sadie has her pointers..............................
For an Englishwoman Sadie's pointers are seldom wrong ... but you being part Scottish should know something about the old legends (I think DNA testing bears some of them out) your Scottish part has failed you down the line somewhere, Stephen. Very cosmopolitan people are the Scots.
Judah "The Sceptre shall not depart from Judah"
Royal sons of Perez and Zerah: includes the royal lineages of Ireland, Scotland, and England. Ethnic Israelis; Occidental (white) Jews , Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews; also sons of Shelah: http://www.british-israel.ca/israel.htm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 10:59:45 AM
For an Englishwoman Sadie's pointers are seldom wrong ... but you being part Scottish should know something about the old legends (I think DNA testing bears some of them out) your Scottish part has failed you down the line somewhere, Stephen. Very cosmopolitan people are the Scots.
Judah "The Sceptre shall not depart from Judah"
Royal sons of Perez and Zerah: includes the royal lineages of Ireland, Scotland, and England. Ethnic Israelis; Occidental (white) Jews , Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews; also sons of Shelah: http://www.british-israel.ca/israel.htm
and you believe that all biblical references are true ?
As to sadie's pointers as you call them, I take them with a pinch of salt, preferably from the Dead Sea. 8(0(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 11:03:05 AM
For an Englishwoman Sadie's pointers are seldom wrong ... but you being part Scottish should know something about the old legends (I think DNA testing bears some of them out) your Scottish part has failed you down the line somewhere, Stephen. Very cosmopolitan people are the Scots.
Judah "The Sceptre shall not depart from Judah"
Royal sons of Perez and Zerah: includes the royal lineages of Ireland, Scotland, and England. Ethnic Israelis; Occidental (white) Jews , Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews; also sons of Shelah: http://www.british-israel.ca/israel.htm
Have you been reading Dan Brown's books perhaps ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 11:20:15 AM
and you believe that all biblical references are true ?
As to sadie's pointers as you call them, I take them with a pinch of salt, preferably from the Dead Sea. 8(0(*
Before most people could read and write the history of the people was recorded in stories, songs, poems. Genealogies were remembered and recited back to the dawning of time. Sadie seems to have a lot more of that race memory at her fingertips than the Scottish part of you. So please don't scoff when you have no idea what you are scoffing at.
In another place having run out calumnies with which to castigate Madeleine McCann's parents I note the 'experts' are delving into the mysteries surrounding their respective genealogies ... whatever next!
What drives these people to the extremes of delving not only into every aspect of the Drs McCann's lives but to obsessively checking out their family trees?
Hope you're not thinking of going down that route.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 11:22:46 AM
Before most people could read and write the history of the people was recorded in stories, songs, poems. Genealogies were remembered and recited back to the dawning of time. Sadie seems to have a lot more of that race memory at her fingertips than the Scottish part of you. So please don't scoff when you have no idea what you are scoffing at.
In another place having run out calumnies with which to castigate Madeleine McCann's parents I note the 'experts' are delving into the mysteries surrounding their respective genealogies ... whatever next!
What drives these people to the extremes of delving not only into every aspect of the Drs McCann's lives but to obsessively checking out their family trees?
Hope you're not thinking of going down that route.
Family trees ?
That's sadie's forte, surely. 8)--))
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2015, 11:24:54 AM
Now and again I'm rendered speechless and it's just happened again. The lost tribes of Israel is a whole other subject and, in my opinion, has no place or relevance on here. Talk about tenuous connections!
I assume that the 'they' who took Madeleine were members of some secret sinister organisation who had researched her bloodline, decided they needed her for some reason, watched the family but didn't manage to grab her, followed them on holiday and finally had their chance in Praia da Luz?
Top marks for effort then. @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 11:26:52 AM
Probably a more realistic book than Mr Amaral's and certainly with a more believable theory behind it ... but I have not read Dan Brown. As far as I know his theories have not damaged anyone's reputation nor have they stirred up obsessive antipathy towards the parents of a missing child. So safe to presume his books won't be of any interest to you either.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 11:28:35 AM
Now and again I'm rendered speechless and it's just happened again. The lost tribes of Israel is a whole other subject and, in my opinion, has no place or relevance on here. Talk about tenuous connections!
I assume that the 'they' who took Madeleine were members of some secret sinister organisation who had researched her bloodline, decided they needed her for some reason, watched the family but didn't manage to grab her, followed them on holiday and finally had their chance in Praia da Luz?
Top marks for effort then. @)(++(*
Now that's magic. 8(*( 8(*( 8(*(
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 11:29:23 AM
Probably a more realistic book than Mr Amaral's and certainly with a more believable theory behind it ... but I have not read Dan Brown. As far as I know his theories have not damaged anyone's reputation nor have they stirred up obsessive antipathy towards the parents of a missing child. So safe to presume his books won't be of any interest to you either.
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 11:29:33 AM
Now and again I'm rendered speechless and it's just happened again. The lost tribes of Israel is a whole other subject and, in my opinion, has no place or relevance on here. Talk about tenuous connections!
I assume that the 'they' who took Madeleine were members of some secret sinister organisation who had researched her bloodline, decided they needed her for some reason, watched the family but didn't manage to grab her, followed them on holiday and finally had their chance in Praia da Luz?
Top marks for effort then. @)(++(*
?{)(** Wow ... do you really think so? Must be a spot on certainty then.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 17, 2015, 12:40:34 PM
To counter the inherent racism. From another place.
Quote
1). There is no basis in biology for race. Full STOP. Race is entirely a social construct. If someone identifies a group as a race... Then that's what it is..... Because there is no such thing as a race... Geddit?? 2) The concept of race is actually a function of racism... Which is negative behaviours towards a identifiable sub groupwithin society...
So... Racism doesn't start with race... Race starts with racism. If a individual behaves negatively towards a identifiable subgoup within our society based upon common cultural or physical traits... Then that racism, it's entirely meaningless to say... Ooh... They are not a race... So that's not racism.. Cause race is a social construct.
So... When someone comes on and calls all scots stupid... Then that is racism. Not because then the scots are or are not a race per se... but because of the behaviour.
Common societal designations of race change continously over time... In the past people talked of the English Race, the Jewish Race, even the Irish... So the identification or otherwise of race is meaningless.. It's the behaviour that's important... And you can't behave like a racist and then play the get out of jails free card of "there not a race so that's not racism..." Line to excuse it cause frankly.... Its bullshit.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 17, 2015, 12:44:27 PM
Before most people could read and write the history of the people was recorded in stories, songs, poems. Genealogies were remembered and recited back to the dawning of time. Sadie seems to have a lot more of that race memory at her fingertips than the Scottish part of you. So please don't scoff when you have no idea what you are scoffing at.
In another place having run out calumnies with which to castigate Madeleine McCann's parents I note the 'experts' are delving into the mysteries surrounding their respective genealogies ... whatever next!
What drives these people to the extremes of delving not only into every aspect of the Drs McCann's lives but to obsessively checking out their family trees?
Hope you're not thinking of going down that route.
"I was only looking for a piece of wood to make drum"
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 17, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Now and again I'm rendered speechless and it's just happened again. The lost tribes of Israel is a whole other subject and, in my opinion, has no place or relevance on here. Talk about tenuous connections!
I assume that the 'they' who took Madeleine were members of some secret sinister organisation who had researched her bloodline, decided they needed her for some reason, watched the family but didn't manage to grab her, followed them on holiday and finally had their chance in Praia da Luz?
Top marks for effort then. @)(++(*
The film Dogma?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 01:12:40 PM
To counter the inherent racism. From another place.
Oh dear ... is it my reference to race memory to which you refer? Just in case, here is the dictionary definition ...
Definition of race memory in English: noun
A supposedly inherited subconscious memory of events in human history or prehistory. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/race-memory
On such trivia as confusing 'race memory' with 'inherent racism' is built the misunderstanding and prejudice which is used to berate the parents of a missing child. Sometimes the meaning of a phrase is corrupted when taken out of context or misunderstood.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2015, 03:12:30 PM
I've never seen it, but it certainly seems to rest on similar ideas lol.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 17, 2015, 03:25:37 PM
Well worth a view. Matt Damon is brilliant as The Angel of Death. "Religious films have always been slightly controversial. The line is so fine that if you attempt to make a movie in the genre, you will eventually offend somebody. But that didn’t deter Kevin Smith in his perhaps most ambitious cinematic outing, which was a satire of the Catholic Church, and would result in Smith receiving over 30,000 pieces of hate mail and two death threats". Just for making an irreverent bloody film. Mercy!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 17, 2015, 03:33:48 PM
Well worth a view. Matt Damon is brilliant as The Angel of Death. "Religious films have always been slightly controversial. The line is so fine that if you attempt to make a movie in the genre, you will eventually offend somebody. But that didn’t deter Kevin Smith in his perhaps most ambitious cinematic outing, which was a satire of the Catholic Church, and would result in Smith receiving over 30,000 pieces of hate mail and two death threats". Just for making an irreverent bloody film. Mercy!
Just an average day in the life of the McCanns. 8(8-))
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 17, 2015, 03:39:05 PM
Oh dear ... is it my reference to race memory to which you refer? Just in case, here is the dictionary definition ...
Definition of race memory in English: noun
A supposedly inherited subconscious memory of events in human history or prehistory. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/race-memory
On such trivia as confusing 'race memory' with 'inherent racism' is built the misunderstanding and prejudice which is used to berate the parents of a missing child. Sometimes the meaning of a phrase is corrupted when taken out of context or misunderstood.
???
Not sure what racial memory has to do with anything?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 17, 2015, 05:04:07 PM
Gosh 30,000 an hour is 8 a second; that is going some. Who are all these people with such phenomenal keyboard skills?. What do your "sauces" tell you? Mine say this a number snatched out of thin air and multiplied by the number of the next bus to pass presented in the hope there is no saddo about who will do a bit of mental arithmetic to get a sense check 8(*( 8(*(
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 05:26:34 PM
Gosh 30,000 an hour is 8 a second; that is going some. Who are all these people with such phenomenal keyboard skills?. What do your "sauces" tell you? Mine say this a number snatched out of thin air and multiplied by the number of the next bus to pass presented in the hope there is no saddo about who will do a bit of mental arithmetic to get a sense check 8(*( 8(*(
Alice, I thought you had a sense of humour, but seems I was wrong. Mind you, if Faithlilly is right at the McCanns were able to purchase half a million new FB likes overnight then I guess it is possible that a malevolent Ay-En-Tee-Eye has paid some poor villagers in India or somewhere to churn out thousands of hate letters an hour. you gotta pity the poor postie though.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 17, 2015, 05:45:54 PM
Alice, I thought you had a sense of humour, but seems I was wrong. Mind you, if Faithlilly is right at the McCanns were able to purchase half a million new FB likes overnight then I guess it is possible that a malevolent Ay-En-Tee-Eye has paid some poor villagers in India or somewhere to churn out thousands of hate letters an hour. you gotta pity the poor postie though.
Do you mean cleft stick runners? I thought my previous post was rather droll. I clearly need to do slapstick on here then.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 17, 2015, 06:34:00 PM
Well you are the forum clown so that would be appropriate. 8)--))
Well someone has to be a clown amongst all those who take themselves and their own opinions far too seriously. It is only me being here that makes me stay 8(>((
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2015, 07:12:34 PM
Well worth a view. Matt Damon is brilliant as The Angel of Death. "Religious films have always been slightly controversial. The line is so fine that if you attempt to make a movie in the genre, you will eventually offend somebody. But that didn’t deter Kevin Smith in his perhaps most ambitious cinematic outing, which was a satire of the Catholic Church, and would result in Smith receiving over 30,000 pieces of hate mail and two death threats". Just for making an irreverent bloody film. Mercy!
Remember the fuss over Life of Brian? Particularly in the Bible belt. Help, I'm off topic! Eleanor where are you? And why are my posts on a blus background?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2015, 07:22:39 PM
Remember the fuss over Life of Brian? Particularly in the Bible belt. Help, I'm off topic! Eleanor where are you? And why are my posts on a blus background?
Don't worry. I have been out and about in the real world. I will probably delete your post later. If I can be bothered.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 17, 2015, 07:27:32 PM
She doesn't. I could well be a Jew for all I know. I certainly know a lot more about Judaism than most. But Jews aren't actually a Race. You would know that if you knew anything at all about the subject.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2015, 08:14:28 PM
Sadie wasn't even posting at the time, so not a very sensible thing to do just throwing a post up into the air and letting it hang there particularly when using emotive language.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 08:20:41 PM
She doesn't. I could well be a Jew for all I know. I certainly know a lot more about Judaism than most. But Jews aren't actually a Race. You would know that if you knew anything at all about the subject.
Were all members of Homo Sapiens with a few Neanderthal genes thrown into the mix.
However, sadie is fixated with certain peoples origins.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2015, 08:32:08 PM
My religious beliefs are none of your business, Stephen. But actually, I am much more into Carbon Dating and Dust to Dust.
But The Old Testament is the only real history that we have of The Jews, giving regard to translations, which are always a bit dodgy.
And, of course, so many of us would still be Jews, were it not for The Crucifixion. Presuming that we still wanted to be.
It appears that there is so much more that you don't even want to know about, let alone should it matter.
So discard The McCanns because they don't matter to you.
The old testament is merely written words by people whose scientific knowledge was quite basic.
I do not regard the Jewish people as special, as some clearly do.
We all belong to one specie, something which many people need to learn and understand.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 09:10:11 PM
Many who claim religious devotion are the biggest bigots of the lot.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: lordpookles on June 17, 2015, 09:24:54 PM
I really don't understand the loyalty some of you profess for the McCann side and are on here 24/7 as if this is some battle that is actually worth winning. You know some people take pleasure in bullying or denigrating others and hiding behind the veil of ethics and moral standing when really it is just a legitimate way to be an asshole. I'm reasonably neutral on this whole affair but on this forum the people who are indulging in the most spiteful and disingenuous behaviour are you supporters. Forget Twitter/Facebook/other forums and try and have a reasonable discussion/argument without resulting to insulting behaviour. If this was down the pub and we were all having a friendly debate would you still use this same strategy - I think not and really what is the difference?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2015, 09:25:41 PM
My religious beliefs are none of your business, Stephen. But actually, I am much more into Carbon Dating and Dust to Dust.
But The Old Testament is the only real history that we have of The Jews, giving regard to translations, which are always a bit dodgy.
And, of course, so many of us would still be Jews, were it not for The Crucifixion. Presuming that we still wanted to be.
It appears that there is so much more that you don't even want to know about, let alone should it matter.
So discard The McCanns because they don't matter to you.
Why do you think we would 'still' be Jews? Britain was never Jewish as far as I know. At the time of the Crucifixion Britain was in the hands of various Celtic tribes?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2015, 09:34:30 PM
The old testament is merely written words by people whose scientific knowledge was quite basic.
I do not regard the Jewish people as special, as some clearly do.
We all belong to one specie, something which many people need to learn and understand.
Indeed we do. But a religion of sorts did appear. And for reasons that make some sort of sense to me. There was no reason for scientific beliefs in those days.
I am an Agnostic. I believe in The Universe. And we all matter.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 17, 2015, 09:37:44 PM
Sadie wasn't even posting at the time, so not a very sensible thing to do just throwing a post up into the air and letting it hang there particularly when using emotive language.
See Post 507 (until the Post fairy starts deleting).
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2015, 09:37:49 PM
Why do you think we would 'still' be Jews? Britain was never Jewish as far as I know. At the time of the Crucifixion Britain was in the hands of various Celtic tribes?
The Tribes of Israel spread far and wide.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2015, 09:39:02 PM
I really don't understand the loyalty some of you profess for the McCann side and are on here 24/7 as if this is some battle that is actually worth winning. You know some people take pleasure in bullying or denigrating others and hiding behind the veil of ethics and moral standing when really it is just a legitimate way to be an asshole. I'm reasonably neutral on this whole affair but on this forum the people who are indulging in the most spiteful and disingenuous behaviour are you supporters. Forget Twitter/Facebook/other forums and try and have a reasonable discussion/argument without resulting to insulting behaviour. If this was down the pub and we were all having a friendly debate would you still use this same strategy - I think not and really what is the difference?
Well said. 8@??)(
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on June 17, 2015, 09:43:33 PM
Indeed, I'll second that.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 17, 2015, 09:45:58 PM
sadie is particularly interested in Judism atm because she has lived all her life in ignorance, believing a lie. She has now found out that she is almost certainly from Jewish blood and pure blood at that, going back to Biblical times and Judea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It has been most interesting researching it, not only with respect to myself, sadie .... but also because of the fact that I find that the Mccann case is riddled with Jews. In massive doses. Both within the senior Faro/ Portimao PJ and the jurisdiction of PT, but also within the string of abducted children in PT
Is she not to tell you about these astounding FACTs ? Do you prefer to be in ignorance of them?
Even the hillside immediately behind PdL. are called Monte Judeu [Hills of the Jews]. Just 2 1/2 miles away from PdL
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 18, 2015, 01:44:05 AM
sadie is particularly interested in Judism atm because she has lived all her life in ignorance, believing a lie. She has now found out that she is almost certainly from Jewish blood and pure blood at that, going back to Biblical times and Judea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It has been most interesting researching it, not only with respect to myself, sadie .... but also because of the fact that I find that the Mccann case is riddled with Jews. In massive doses. Both within the senior Faro/ Portimao PJ and the jurisdiction of PT, but also within the string of abducted children in PT
Is she not to tell you about these astounding FACTs ? Do you prefer to be in ignorance of them?
Even the hillside immediately behind PdL. are called Monte Judeu [Hills of the Jews]. Just 2 1/2 miles away from PdL
I rest my case... ?{)(**
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 18, 2015, 07:55:54 AM
sadie is particularly interested in Judism atm because she has lived all her life in ignorance, believing a lie. She has now found out that she is almost certainly from Jewish blood and pure blood at that, going back to Biblical times and Judea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It has been most interesting researching it, not only with respect to myself, sadie .... but also because of the fact that I find that the Mccann case is riddled with Jews. In massive doses. Both within the senior Faro/ Portimao PJ and the jurisdiction of PT, but also within the string of abducted children in PT
Is she not to tell you about these astounding FACTs ? Do you prefer to be in ignorance of them?
Even the hillside immediately behind PdL. are called Monte Judeu [Hills of the Jews]. Just 2 1/2 miles away from PdL
Speaking of yourself in the third person ?
What is this obsession you have with Jewish origins ?
You do realize that Dan Brown's books are works of fiction ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 18, 2015, 07:56:48 AM
What is this obsession you have with Jewish origins ?
You do realize that Dan Brown's books are works of fiction ?
Is it your mission to constantly post OT and mount ad hominem attacks while doing so? Sadie's posts have the benefit of being always well thought out and informative. She never resorts to the abuse of fllow members.
I think there is a lot you could learn from her ... but anyway, I'm not keen on reporting posts hoping that the majority know enough to comply with the forum rules ... but I am going to start reporting posts which are used to ridicule another poster.
So please don't make me go down that route.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 18, 2015, 09:12:16 AM
Is it your mission to constantly post OT and mount ad hominem attacks while doing so? Sadie's posts have the benefit of being always well thought out and informative. She never resorts to the abuse of fllow members.
I think there is a lot you could learn from her ... but anyway, I'm not keen on reporting posts hoping that the majority know enough to comply with the forum rules ... but I am going to start reporting posts which are used to ridicule another poster.
So please don't make me go down that route.
She does abuse posters and accuses them.
Now in one of her last posts she 'suggested' I and others who don't believe the mccanns have Aspergers.
She has accused me of being on a forum I never heard of until she mentioned it.
The other day she got my gender wrong.
You seem to forget it is not only me who finds Sadie's theories wild and downright strange, and I a being being polite.
P.S. How do you know Sadie's posts are well thought out and informative ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 18, 2015, 10:29:28 AM
Not quite sure exactly where to post this ... but for those who say such things just don't happen ... think again. I found the initial police response at the end of the article illuminating, I also think the parallels with the situation in Praia da Luz are extraordinary.
Holiday hell: Gang dressed as waiters try to snatch children from Cyprus resort packed with Scots holidaymakers 06:00, 18 JUNE 2015 BY JAMES MONCUR THREE youngsters were being lured into cars at the Anastasia Beach Complex, near Protaras, when the child-snatcher were caught.
A GANG dressed as waiters tried to snatch children from a hotel packed with Scots holidaymakers.
Three youngsters were being lured into cars when the child-snatchers were caught.
A holidaymaker at the Cyprus resort with a wedding party from Dundee said: “We had seen these people around the hotel all week. They’d been in the pool and interacting with some of the children.
“Some of them were wearing staff outfits so they could blend in more easily. It was really scary.”
Scots dad Greg Letford, 28, told how the gang – who staff claimed were Romanians – targeted kids on Tuesday night.
He said: “This Romanian couple were leading the two young children towards a waiting car, another person had a third child up against a wall ready to go, too.
“Someone spotted what they were up to and stopped them. If he hadn’t been there those kids would have gone.
“One of the men got away and we heard the getaway car crashed a short distance away too.
“When the police turned up, they took the man and woman into an office in the hotel and a crowd built up in the foyer – there must have been about 60 or 70 really angry people. It was chaos.
“The police got them into a van through a window for their protection. One of the hotel staff later told us they were Romanian and that one of them used to work at the hotel.”
The children involved in the drama at the Anastasia Beach Complex, near Protaras, were all under 10.
Dad-of-two Greg was staying there as part of the 25-strong wedding party.
He told how members of his group gave statements to police, who also took cameras and phones from the two suspects.
Tour operators Thomas Cook have since moved about 60 British and Irish holidaymakers from the hotel amid fears for children’s safety.
After they were spotted, the alleged abductors were grabbed, frogmarched to the hotel office and handed over to police.
Alarmed holidaymakers organised their own round-the-clock safety patrol of the hotel grounds to protect their children.
It is understood that a gang of at least 10 men and women had been scoping out the plush hotel for the last week.
They were spotted filming and taking photographs of the children as they played in the pool and it is claimed some wore waiters’ outfits to blend in to their surroundings.
Police maintained a security presence at the hotel throughout yesterday as they investigated the allegations.
A member of the Dundee group said: “What should have been a fantastic wedding has turned into a bit of a nightmare.
“Just thinking of what might have happened to those children makes your stomach flip. After it happened, we started patrolling around the accommodation to keep an eye out for them again. We just couldn’t take chances.”
The Anastasia Beach Complex is run by Thomas Cook and is on the eastern tip of Cyprus. It has 191 rooms and 50 studios and apartments.
On the company website it is described as being “a perfect family choice”. It has a kids’ splash pool, water park and a lazy river.
Holidaymakers, who were mainly from Scotland and Ireland, were offered a new hotel in nearby Paphos by Thomas Cook.
Greg praised the speedy and professional way Thomas Cook’s reps handled the difficult situation and tried to calm fears.
They arranged return flights to the UK for those families directly affected by the attempted abductions and agreed to move others who didn’t feel safe.
Greg’s party were transferred from Protaras to a five-star hotel in Paphos, a three-hour coach ride away, yesterday morning. A Thomas Cook spokeswoman said the company were taking the incident extremely seriously.
She said: “Thomas Cook have requested an increased and immediate security presence at the hotel.
“The safety and welfare of our customers is always our first priority and, upon hearing about the incident, we immediately deployed our experienced resort team to the property to provide those customers in residence with individual support.
“Customers who did not wish to stay at the property were moved to alternative hotels of a similar or higher standard.
“While incidents of this nature are extremely rare, we would like to reassure all customers that this is being taken seriously and we are continuing to work closely with the local authorities and the hotel as the investigation continues.
“Any customers with concerns about future holidays at this hotel are asked to contact us directly so we can deal with them personally and directly.”
A Thomas Cook insider said: “We have a lot of reps on the ground out there to support people.
“Our teams will be liaising with the authorities and the hotel.
“But it becomes a police matter once the police are called, which is the understanding in this case.”
Police in Cyprus initially denied any incident had taken place and said their officers had never attended at the Anastasia – despite the Daily Record emailing them photographs of squad cars outside the main entrance.
We then contacted the Cypriot High Commission in London to clarify the situation.
A short time later, a representative told us to retry the police in Cyprus who now had “information about the incident”.
The same police spokesman in Cyprus – who had earlier denied any involvement – confirmed officers did attend but said that it was all a “misunderstanding”.
He claimed a 19-year-old man had been seen filming a show at the hotel and was “attacked” by 50 or 60 holidaymakers and officers had to remove him for his own safety. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/holiday-hell-gang-dressed-waiters-5902767
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 18, 2015, 10:41:02 AM
Not quite sure exactly where to post this ... but for those who say such things just don't happen ... think again. I found the initial police response at the end of the article illuminating, I also think the parallels with the situation in Praia da Luz are extraordinary.
Holiday hell: Gang dressed as waiters try to snatch children from Cyprus resort packed with Scots holidaymakers 06:00, 18 JUNE 2015 BY JAMES MONCUR THREE youngsters were being lured into cars at the Anastasia Beach Complex, near Protaras, when the child-snatcher were caught.
A GANG dressed as waiters tried to snatch children from a hotel packed with Scots holidaymakers.
Three youngsters were being lured into cars when the child-snatchers were caught.
A holidaymaker at the Cyprus resort with a wedding party from Dundee said: “We had seen these people around the hotel all week. They’d been in the pool and interacting with some of the children.
“Some of them were wearing staff outfits so they could blend in more easily. It was really scary.”
Scots dad Greg Letford, 28, told how the gang – who staff claimed were Romanians – targeted kids on Tuesday night.
He said: “This Romanian couple were leading the two young children towards a waiting car, another person had a third child up against a wall ready to go, too.
“Someone spotted what they were up to and stopped them. If he hadn’t been there those kids would have gone.
“One of the men got away and we heard the getaway car crashed a short distance away too.
“When the police turned up, they took the man and woman into an office in the hotel and a crowd built up in the foyer – there must have been about 60 or 70 really angry people. It was chaos.
“The police got them into a van through a window for their protection. One of the hotel staff later told us they were Romanian and that one of them used to work at the hotel.”
The children involved in the drama at the Anastasia Beach Complex, near Protaras, were all under 10.
Dad-of-two Greg was staying there as part of the 25-strong wedding party.
He told how members of his group gave statements to police, who also took cameras and phones from the two suspects.
Tour operators Thomas Cook have since moved about 60 British and Irish holidaymakers from the hotel amid fears for children’s safety.
After they were spotted, the alleged abductors were grabbed, frogmarched to the hotel office and handed over to police.
Alarmed holidaymakers organised their own round-the-clock safety patrol of the hotel grounds to protect their children.
It is understood that a gang of at least 10 men and women had been scoping out the plush hotel for the last week.
They were spotted filming and taking photographs of the children as they played in the pool and it is claimed some wore waiters’ outfits to blend in to their surroundings.
Police maintained a security presence at the hotel throughout yesterday as they investigated the allegations.
A member of the Dundee group said: “What should have been a fantastic wedding has turned into a bit of a nightmare.
“Just thinking of what might have happened to those children makes your stomach flip. After it happened, we started patrolling around the accommodation to keep an eye out for them again. We just couldn’t take chances.”
The Anastasia Beach Complex is run by Thomas Cook and is on the eastern tip of Cyprus. It has 191 rooms and 50 studios and apartments.
On the company website it is described as being “a perfect family choice”. It has a kids’ splash pool, water park and a lazy river.
Holidaymakers, who were mainly from Scotland and Ireland, were offered a new hotel in nearby Paphos by Thomas Cook.
Greg praised the speedy and professional way Thomas Cook’s reps handled the difficult situation and tried to calm fears.
They arranged return flights to the UK for those families directly affected by the attempted abductions and agreed to move others who didn’t feel safe.
Greg’s party were transferred from Protaras to a five-star hotel in Paphos, a three-hour coach ride away, yesterday morning. A Thomas Cook spokeswoman said the company were taking the incident extremely seriously.
She said: “Thomas Cook have requested an increased and immediate security presence at the hotel.
“The safety and welfare of our customers is always our first priority and, upon hearing about the incident, we immediately deployed our experienced resort team to the property to provide those customers in residence with individual support.
“Customers who did not wish to stay at the property were moved to alternative hotels of a similar or higher standard.
“While incidents of this nature are extremely rare, we would like to reassure all customers that this is being taken seriously and we are continuing to work closely with the local authorities and the hotel as the investigation continues.
“Any customers with concerns about future holidays at this hotel are asked to contact us directly so we can deal with them personally and directly.”
A Thomas Cook insider said: “We have a lot of reps on the ground out there to support people.
“Our teams will be liaising with the authorities and the hotel.
“But it becomes a police matter once the police are called, which is the understanding in this case.”
Police in Cyprus initially denied any incident had taken place and said their officers had never attended at the Anastasia – despite the Daily Record emailing them photographs of squad cars outside the main entrance.
We then contacted the Cypriot High Commission in London to clarify the situation.
A short time later, a representative told us to retry the police in Cyprus who now had “information about the incident”.
The same police spokesman in Cyprus – who had earlier denied any involvement – confirmed officers did attend but said that it was all a “misunderstanding”.
He claimed a 19-year-old man had been seen filming a show at the hotel and was “attacked” by 50 or 60 holidaymakers and officers had to remove him for his own safety. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/holiday-hell-gang-dressed-waiters-5902767
No one ever said it couldn't happen did they? I see the parallels of course. Mob handed Rumanians dressed as waiters who had been casing the joint for days and crashed getaway cars. What else?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 18, 2015, 07:14:29 PM
No one ever said it couldn't happen did they? I see the parallels of course. Mob handed Rumanians dressed as waiters who had been casing the joint for days and crashed getaway cars. What else?
I think I have posted this in the wrong thread ... but as you have noted in your inimitable style (don't think too many are queuing up to imitate) there are parallels which are striking. Interestingly it is said that some of the perpetrators had worn staff uniform to allow themselves to blend in. Others had been seen all week ... just other holidaymakers enjoying themselves and relaxing.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 19, 2015, 04:25:33 AM
Not quite sure exactly where to post this ... but for those who say such things just don't happen ... think again. I found the initial police response at the end of the article illuminating, I also think the parallels with the situation in Praia da Luz are extraordinary.
Holiday hell: Gang dressed as waiters try to snatch children from Cyprus resort packed with Scots holidaymakers 06:00, 18 JUNE 2015 BY JAMES MONCUR THREE youngsters were being lured into cars at the Anastasia Beach Complex, near Protaras, when the child-snatcher were caught.
A GANG dressed as waiters tried to snatch children from a hotel packed with Scots holidaymakers.
Three youngsters were being lured into cars when the child-snatchers were caught.
A holidaymaker at the Cyprus resort with a wedding party from Dundee said: “We had seen these people around the hotel all week. They’d been in the pool and interacting with some of the children.
“Some of them were wearing staff outfits so they could blend in more easily. It was really scary.”
Scots dad Greg Letford, 28, told how the gang – who staff claimed were Romanians – targeted kids on Tuesday night.
He said: “This Romanian couple were leading the two young children towards a waiting car, another person had a third child up against a wall ready to go, too.
“Someone spotted what they were up to and stopped them. If he hadn’t been there those kids would have gone.
“One of the men got away and we heard the getaway car crashed a short distance away too.
“When the police turned up, they took the man and woman into an office in the hotel and a crowd built up in the foyer – there must have been about 60 or 70 really angry people. It was chaos.
“The police got them into a van through a window for their protection. One of the hotel staff later told us they were Romanian and that one of them used to work at the hotel.”
The children involved in the drama at the Anastasia Beach Complex, near Protaras, were all under 10.
Dad-of-two Greg was staying there as part of the 25-strong wedding party.
He told how members of his group gave statements to police, who also took cameras and phones from the two suspects.
Tour operators Thomas Cook have since moved about 60 British and Irish holidaymakers from the hotel amid fears for children’s safety.
After they were spotted, the alleged abductors were grabbed, frogmarched to the hotel office and handed over to police.
Alarmed holidaymakers organised their own round-the-clock safety patrol of the hotel grounds to protect their children.
It is understood that a gang of at least 10 men and women had been scoping out the plush hotel for the last week.
They were spotted filming and taking photographs of the children as they played in the pool and it is claimed some wore waiters’ outfits to blend in to their surroundings.
Police maintained a security presence at the hotel throughout yesterday as they investigated the allegations.
A member of the Dundee group said: “What should have been a fantastic wedding has turned into a bit of a nightmare.
“Just thinking of what might have happened to those children makes your stomach flip. After it happened, we started patrolling around the accommodation to keep an eye out for them again. We just couldn’t take chances.”
The Anastasia Beach Complex is run by Thomas Cook and is on the eastern tip of Cyprus. It has 191 rooms and 50 studios and apartments.
On the company website it is described as being “a perfect family choice”. It has a kids’ splash pool, water park and a lazy river.
Holidaymakers, who were mainly from Scotland and Ireland, were offered a new hotel in nearby Paphos by Thomas Cook.
Greg praised the speedy and professional way Thomas Cook’s reps handled the difficult situation and tried to calm fears.
They arranged return flights to the UK for those families directly affected by the attempted abductions and agreed to move others who didn’t feel safe.
Greg’s party were transferred from Protaras to a five-star hotel in Paphos, a three-hour coach ride away, yesterday morning. A Thomas Cook spokeswoman said the company were taking the incident extremely seriously.
She said: “Thomas Cook have requested an increased and immediate security presence at the hotel.
“The safety and welfare of our customers is always our first priority and, upon hearing about the incident, we immediately deployed our experienced resort team to the property to provide those customers in residence with individual support.
“Customers who did not wish to stay at the property were moved to alternative hotels of a similar or higher standard.
“While incidents of this nature are extremely rare, we would like to reassure all customers that this is being taken seriously and we are continuing to work closely with the local authorities and the hotel as the investigation continues.
“Any customers with concerns about future holidays at this hotel are asked to contact us directly so we can deal with them personally and directly.”
A Thomas Cook insider said: “We have a lot of reps on the ground out there to support people.
“Our teams will be liaising with the authorities and the hotel.
“But it becomes a police matter once the police are called, which is the understanding in this case.”
Police in Cyprus initially denied any incident had taken place and said their officers had never attended at the Anastasia – despite the Daily Record emailing them photographs of squad cars outside the main entrance.
We then contacted the Cypriot High Commission in London to clarify the situation.
A short time later, a representative told us to retry the police in Cyprus who now had “information about the incident”.
The same police spokesman in Cyprus – who had earlier denied any involvement – confirmed officers did attend but said that it was all a “misunderstanding”.
He claimed a 19-year-old man had been seen filming a show at the hotel and was “attacked” by 50 or 60 holidaymakers and officers had to remove him for his own safety. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/holiday-hell-gang-dressed-waiters-5902767
Always best to not believe one source before researching hey? Gosh shock horror the British press overhyped and invented, whoever would have thought that? But it's always "them dodgy foreigners" fault LOL
Always best to not believe one source before researching hey? Gosh shock horror the British press overhyped and invented, whoever would have thought that? But it's always "them dodgy foreigners" fault LOL
Always best to not believe one source before researching hey? Gosh shock horror the British press overhyped and invented, whoever would have thought that? But it's always "them dodgy foreigners" fault LOL
I see ... there is absolutely no significance to the fact ... as confirmed in this newspaper ... that Thomas Cook relocated families to other hotels, and that two families cut short their holidays and returned home.
**snip “Although there are conflicting reports as to what exactly occurred at the property, we would like to reassure all customers that we take all allegations incredibly seriously and we are continuing to work closely with our customers in resort and the local authorities,” the Thomas Cook statement said.
On request, the company assisted 16 customer bookings who wished to move to an alternative hotel and two families who travelled back to the UK early. But the company said it continued to offer holidays to the Anastasia, though it had requested increased security. “Thomas Cook continues to offer holidays to the Anastasia Beach and the island of Cyprus, where customers are continuing to enjoy their holidays with us,” the company said.
Police on Thursday denied the attempted kidnap of three young children from the hotel as British newspapers hyped up the story with headlines as ‘Holiday Hell’. http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/06/18/police-deny-attempted-abduction/
Nor is there any significance at all that a common thread seems to be that holiday companies and the local police apparently take great pains to downplay such situations when they occur. Lillie's parents were concerned enough to report an incident which happened last year to their local police force; then of course this was in relation to an event which happened on holiday in a foreign country ... so it is perfectly obvious the British parents must automatically be considered to be fabricating a story.
**snip As the couple got more and more distraught, Kay, also 28, spotted a woman carrying Lillie under arms around 400 yards from the hotel.
Daniel, of Horden, Co Durham, said: “We found her in the arms of an Eastern European woman who was walking towards a car park.
"My partner saw her, she thought she was carrying a bag of potatoes, then she realised it was our child. She ran after her, screaming.”
Kay added: “Lillie was hysterical.”
The woman claimed she found the toddler alone and was taking her to the hotel.
But Kay said: “By the time I checked over Lillie, she had gone.”
The couple did not believe her and asked staff to call police. But Daniel said: “The manager said to us, ‘You’ve got her back, that’s it’.”
The pair reported the kidnap attempt to Durham Police when they returned home after the holiday last August.
The case was referred to Operation Grange, the unit leading the search for Madeleine. It was also shared with detectives in Cyprus. There have been no arrests.
Daniel told how the latest kidnap bids at the hotel brought their own horror flooding back.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 19, 2015, 10:32:44 PM
I (and you) do not know if and how many people moved hotel or returned home or more importantly, why they did.
The Cyprus police, their government and the British High Commission, all, (according to the Independent) have said the story is NOT as reported/fabricated/misreported/whipped up by one or two sections of the the UK press. That is good enough for me.
Tabloids have weighty proven form for their , how can I put it, shenanigans
I forgot to add this original story in the Independent reporting on "parallels"
Alice, I thought you had a sense of humour, but seems I was wrong. Mind you, if Faithlilly is right at the McCanns were able to purchase half a million new FB likes overnight then I guess it is possible that a malevolent Ay-En-Tee-Eye has paid some poor villagers in India or somewhere to churn out thousands of hate letters an hour. you gotta pity the poor postie though.
Not quite true Alfie. I said the likes went from just over 160,000 to over 500,000 almost overnight so if you're going to quote me I'd be obliged if you'd do it accurately.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 19, 2015, 11:37:16 PM
I didn't think it would be long before this toe rag stuck his oar in.
"The McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the Daily Star: "The question of whether child traffickers were involved in Madeleine’s abduction was always one line of investigation among many.
If there is any suggestion of a connection between this incident and others in the wider European region than that is a matter for Operation Grange to investigate and to liaise with the Cypriot authorities."
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 19, 2015, 11:38:08 PM
Post subject: Re: Main McThread 7PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:22 pm Offline
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:47 pm Posts: 2150 HIGH COMMISSION FOR THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS 13 St. James’s Square, London SW1Y 4LB Tel: 020 7321 4100 Fax: 020 7321 4164/5 E-mail: cyphclondon@btconnect.com Statement on recent media reports on an alleged child abduction incident in Cyprus We have been following various media reports in the UK regarding the alleged child abduction case at the Anastasia Beach Hotel in Cyprus. We fully appreciate the concerns of parents regarding the safety of their children. The allegations are taken seriously by the authorities in Cyprus. The Police responded rapidly to complaints made by British nationals that an unknown man was taking pictures and approaching children at the hotel grounds. The individual, a 19 year old foreign national, was taken into custody for questioning. He has been living in Cyprus with his parents for the past few years and has no police record. His mobile phone, personal computer and home were thoroughly searched by the Police and nothing incriminating or suspicious was found. The Police also took statements from the British parents who filed the complaint, as well as from the children themselves. Their statements did not corroborate the allegations concerning a possible abduction plan on the part of the said foreign national. All allegations were duly examined and no evidence was found to support them. The various press reports in the UK alleging a planned abduction of children from the hotel by a group of foreign nationals are, therefore, unsubstantiated. In view of the fact that due process has been followed, the Cyprus government considers that the news stories in the UK media do not reflect the facts, thus unfairly tarnishing the good reputation of Cyprus. The Cyprus Government has excellent co-operation with the competent British authorities in many fields, including crime and justice affairs. The Cyprus Police has been in continuous contact and is cooperating with the British High Commission in Cyprus regarding this matter. Cyprus is a hospitable holiday destination that receives almost 2.5 million visitors a year. It is a family friendly destination with one of the lowest crime-rates in the EU and across the world and continues to be one of the safest tourist destinations. 19 June 2015 http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/HighCom/londo ... CYPRUS.pdf
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 19, 2015, 11:38:15 PM
Pray tell how l could possibly make them unpopular ?
You or people like you are part of a campaign to spread suspicion and hatred about the McCanns (poorly disguised as "only asking questions") and which actively seeks to recruit new members to the cause, that's how.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 19, 2015, 11:40:19 PM
Not quite true Alfie. I said the likes went from just over 160,000 to over 500,000 almost overnight so if you're going to quote me I'd be obliged if you'd do it accurately.
If you're going to make allegations such as the one above I'd be obliged if you'd provide the supporting evidence, eg: a screenshot showing membership one day, and a screenshot the following day showing increased likes of 340k, thanks.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 19, 2015, 11:41:23 PM
I didn't think it would be long before this toe rag stuck his oar in.
"The McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the Daily Star: "The question of whether child traffickers were involved in Madeleine’s abduction was always one line of investigation among many.
If there is any suggestion of a connection between this incident and others in the wider European region than that is a matter for Operation Grange to investigate and to liaise with the Cypriot authorities."
What did Clarence actually say that upset you so much that you felt it necessary to call him a toe rag?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 19, 2015, 11:46:46 PM
What did Clarence actually say that upset you so much that you felt it necessary to call him a toe rag?
Your question wasn't addressed to me but I have to say Clarence Mitchell is a seasoned media man, he will KNOW what is likely true or false and has chosen to to ...well, work it out for yourself!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 19, 2015, 11:51:07 PM
Your question wasn't addressed to me but I have to say Clarence Mitchell is a seasoned media man, he will KNOW what is likely true or false and has chosen to to ...well, work it out for yourself!
He has chosen to say it's a matter for the police to investigateto see if there is any connection - how scandalous!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 19, 2015, 11:54:33 PM
You or people like you are part of a campaign to spread suspicion and hatred about the McCanns (poorly disguised as "only asking questions") and which actively seeks to recruit new members to the cause, that's how.
Do you realise for one second how nuts that sounds ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 20, 2015, 12:05:35 AM
Is it a bird, is it a plane? What was that that apparently went over my head? Do tell!
If you don't have the intelligence to understand, or are pretending not to, (neither of which I believe btw) I don't have the will,time,or inclination to help you out...clue ...CM does not get paid thousands upon thousands to just spout, oh well, it's the polices job
@)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 12:11:03 AM
So how do I, or people like me, actually 'radicalise', because that's what you are talking about, individuals who up to having contact with we unbelievers thought the McCanns had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
If you don't have the intelligence to understand, or are pretending not to, (neither of which I believe btw) I don't have the will,time,or inclination to help you out...clue ...CM does not get paid thousands upon thousands to just spout, oh well, it's the polices job
@)(++(*
What did he say that you found particularly shocking, controversial or unacceptable, out of interest?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 20, 2015, 12:32:42 AM
! The Police responded rapidly to complaints made by British nationals that an unknown man was taking pictures and approaching children at the hotel grounds. The individual, a 19 year old foreign national, was taken into custody for questioning. He has been living in Cyprus with his parents for the past few years and has no police record. His mobile phone, personal computer and home were thoroughly searched by the Police and nothing incriminating or suspicious was found. The Police also took statements from the British parents who filed the complaint, as well as from the children themselves. Their statements did not corroborate the allegations concerning a possible abduction plan on the part of the said foreign national. All allegations were duly examined and no evidence was found to support them. The various press reports in the UK alleging a planned abduction of children from the hotel by a group of foreign nationals are, therefore, unsubstantiated. In view of the fact that due process has been followed, the Cyprus government considers that the news stories in the UK media do not reflect the facts, thus unfairly tarnishing the good reputation of Cyprus.''
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 08:11:16 AM
Did I say he was shocking controversial or unacceptable? YOUR words. The man is a pointless waste of boring space IMO. End of story.
I'm sure his family and friends would disagree with you. It must be so galling when "a pointless waste of space" is often quoted in the media while your voice remains unheard.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 20, 2015, 08:41:50 AM
I'm sure his family and friends would disagree with you. It must be so galling when "a pointless waste of space" is often quoted in the media while your voice remains unheard.
He supports the McCanns. Therefore he must be attacked, sneered at and ripped to shreds at every opportunity - in the same way as anyone else who publicly supports them. Inexplicable logic IMO.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 20, 2015, 10:22:39 AM
He supports the McCanns. Therefore he must be attacked, sneered at and ripped to shreds at every opportunity - in the same way as anyone else who publicly supports them. Inexplicable logic IMO.
He is a spin doctor. They are the same whoever they are working for.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 10:34:28 AM
He is a spin doctor. They are the same whoever they are working for.
Please highlight the spin in the following quote:
"The question of whether child traffickers were involved in Madeleine’s abduction was always one line of investigation among many.
If there is any suggestion of a connection between this incident and others in the wider European region than that is a matter for Operation Grange to investigate and to liaise with the Cypriot authorities."
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
So how do I, or people like me, actually 'radicalise', because that's what you are talking about, individuals who up to having contact with we unbelievers thought the McCanns had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance ?
It's a shame my response to your question was deleted - I hope you had a chance to read it before that happened, as I believe it was on topic to this thread. The parents of a missing child don't matter to conspiracy theorists hell bent at promulgating their myths and smears at the parents' expense and recruiting new members to their "Justice" cause.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 20, 2015, 10:41:49 AM
"The question of whether child traffickers were involved in Madeleine’s abduction was always one line of investigation among many.
If there is any suggestion of a connection between this incident and others in the wider European region than that is a matter for Operation Grange to investigate and to liaise with the Cypriot authorities."
It's a shame my response to your question was deleted - I hope you had a chance to read it before that happened, as I believe it was on topic to this thread. The parents of a missing child don't matter to conspiracy theorists hell bent at promulgating their myths and smears at the parents' expense and recruiting new members to their "Justice" cause.
Yet another tirade.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 10:52:55 AM
It's a shame my response to your question was deleted - I hope you had a chance to read it before that happened, as I believe it was on topic to this thread. The parents of a missing child don't matter to conspiracy theorists hell bent at promulgating their myths and smears at the parents' expense and recruiting new members to their "Justice" cause.
Recruiting new members ? How ? People follow SP on Twitter, read Blacksmith and join Facebook groups of their own free will. There is no recruiting.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2015, 10:53:30 AM
It is an interesting concept that if you are British and you express concerns about an attempted abduction of your child while on holiday abroad it immediately attracts opprobrium ~ ridicule ~ and the assumption you are lying through your teeth.
So the new rule of thumb for Brits abroad seems to be if you are sunning yourself at the poolside and you happen to see your child being led away in the direction of a car park by someone you don't know ... have no fear ... all is well ... adjust your sunglasses and continue working on your tan.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 10:56:24 AM
It is an interesting concept that if you are British and you express concerns about an attempted abduction of your child while on holiday abroad it immediately attracts opprobrium ~ ridicule ~ and the assumption you are lying through your teeth.
So the new rule of thumb for Brits abroad seems to be if you are sunning yourself at the poolside and you happen to see your child being led away in the direction of a car park by someone you don't know ... have no fear ... all is well ... adjust your sunglasses and continue working on your tan.
Give it up Brietta. The story's hogwash and you know it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 11:18:01 AM
How did he say it then? How should he have said it? What could he have said or done that wouldn't have met with widespread scorn from the sceptic community apart from "forgive me sceptics for I have sinned - it woz them parents wot dunnit"?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 11:20:56 AM
You or people like you are part of a campaign to spread suspicion and hatred about the McCanns (poorly disguised as "only asking questions") and which actively seeks to recruit new members to the cause, that's how.
Do you believe there is a conspiracy then? Is it yet another movement or cult ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 11:21:12 AM
It is an interesting concept that if you are British and you express concerns about an attempted abduction of your child while on holiday abroad it immediately attracts opprobrium ~ ridicule ~ and the assumption you are lying through your teeth.
So the new rule of thumb for Brits abroad seems to be if you are sunning yourself at the poolside and you happen to see your child being led away in the direction of a car park by someone you don't know ... have no fear ... all is well ... adjust your sunglasses and continue working on your tan.
The default position of all McCann sceptics anywhere is - if there is a reported abduction attempt anywhere in the world then somehow the McCanns and Clarence are behind it and so it must be fake.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 11:23:09 AM
Do you believe there is a conspiracy then? Is it yet another movement or cult ?
No, it's not a conspiracy because it's not hidden - it's very obviously going on and many sceptics actively crow about the increasing numbers of their army, particularly on Facebook and Twitter - you don't "do" social media (allegedly) so you are ignorant of all this (allegedly). And yes, it certainly is a movement (or cult if you prefer).
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 11:36:50 AM
No, it's not a conspiracy because it's not hidden - it's very obviously going on and many sceptics actively crow about the increasing numbers of their army, particularly on Facebook and Twitter - you don't "do" social media (allegedly) so you are ignorant of all this (allegedly). And yes, it certainly is a movement (or cult if you prefer).
So we 'sceptics' are luring the unaware to our cause like some latter day child catchers, is that what you're saying ?
Tell me Alfie how do we recruit these individuals previously unblemished by any doubts about the McCanns ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 20, 2015, 11:43:46 AM
No, it's not a conspiracy because it's not hidden - it's very obviously going on and many sceptics actively crow about the increasing numbers of their army, particularly on Facebook and Twitter - you don't "do" social media (allegedly) so you are ignorant of all this (allegedly). And yes, it certainly is a movement (or cult if you prefer).
No allegedly about it chief, I don't see the point of it. I talk to my friends on the phone or in the pub or send them emails and letters. "Txtspk tw..ter duz mi ed in m8" rollyeyes smiley. FFS we are supposed to be literate adults don't encourage them. I will only notice when billboards have posters of a Lord Kitchener lookylikey pointing saying "The Sceptics Need YOU"
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 20, 2015, 11:45:51 AM
No allegedly about it chief, I don't see the point of it. I talk to my friends on the phone or in the pub or send them emails and letters. "Txtspk tw..ter duz mi ed in m8" rollyeyes smiley. FFS we are supposed to be literate adults don't encourage them. I will only notice when billboards have posters of a Lord Kitchener lookylikey pointing saying "The Sceptics Need YOU"
@)(++(*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Moderator on June 20, 2015, 12:48:59 PM
It is an interesting concept that if you are British and you express concerns about an attempted abduction of your child while on holiday abroad it immediately attracts opprobrium ~ ridicule ~ and the assumption you are lying through your teeth.
So the new rule of thumb for Brits abroad seems to be if you are sunning yourself at the poolside and you happen to see your child being led away in the direction of a car park by someone you don't know ... have no fear ... all is well ... adjust your sunglasses and continue working on your tan.
I see no problem with anxious parents of any nationality reporting suspicious events around children. Given it does not spark off vigil[ censored word]m, a rush in the press to link it to the McCann case merely because it was on the same continent or the ubiquitous Jim Gamble (former head of CEOP as a subtitle) pontificating on the telly. Huh! fat chance of that ever. What ever happened to the tale of the mob handed Romanian geezers dressed up as waiters, crashed getaway cars and all that haraz?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 12:57:39 PM
So we 'sceptics' are luring the unaware to our cause like some latter day child catchers, is that what you're saying ?
Tell me Alfie how do we recruit these individuals previously unblemished by any doubts about the McCanns ?
Do you deny that there is a concerted effort by the likes of Poulton, Bennett, Blacksmith et al to "educate the masses of sheeple" who have been "indoctrinated" by the "McCann-biased MSM" ? Do you deny that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook groups about the case, sometimes without their knowledge? Do you deny that there are countless individuals who have claimed on social media that they had fallen for the "McCann Scam" until they'd joined one of these groups and been shown the error of their ways? If you want to describe these people and organised sceptic groups as child-catchers then those are your words not mine.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 01:03:16 PM
No allegedly about it chief, I don't see the point of it. I talk to my friends on the phone or in the pub or send them emails and letters. "Txtspk tw..ter duz mi ed in m8" rollyeyes smiley. FFS we are supposed to be literate adults don't encourage them. I will only notice when billboards have posters of a Lord Kitchener lookylikey pointing saying "The Sceptics Need YOU"
There seem to be some "sceptics" with more money and sense so it probably won't be long before billboards with just such a message are being paid for. After all defacing billboards and traffic signs was quite popular for a while, why not go to the next stage of marketing?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 20, 2015, 01:21:35 PM
There seem to be some "sceptics" with more money and sense so it probably won't be long before billboards with just such a message are being paid for. After all defacing billboards and traffic signs was quite popular for a while, why not go to the next stage of marketing?
"Bill Posters is innocent! it was Bill Stickers wot dunnit"
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 20, 2015, 01:28:30 PM
Do you deny that there is a concerted effort by the likes of Poulton, Bennett, Blacksmith et al to "educate the masses of sheeple" who have been "indoctrinated" by the "McCann-biased MSM" ? Do you deny that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook groups about the case, sometimes without their knowledge? Do you deny that there are countless individuals who have claimed on social media that they had fallen for the "McCann Scam" until they'd joined one of these groups and been shown the error of their ways? If you want to describe these people and organised sceptic groups as child-catchers then those are your words not mine.
If you are daft enough to sign up to a system that wants access to your email address book then ......? One could of course, were one a trusting soul, create a specific email account for facebook with nowt else in it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2015, 01:36:06 PM
If you are daft enough to sign up to a system that wants access to your email address book then ......? One could of course, were one a trusting soul, create a specific email account for facebook with nowt else in it.
haven't you seen the message....you may sign in with your facebook account....quite innocuous at first glance
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 20, 2015, 01:44:20 PM
Which message where ? Facebook can access your address book that's why I don't "belong".
you may not use the net as much as others but more and more sites allow you to sign in using Facebook....this gives them access to your list of friends
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2015, 01:48:15 PM
If you are daft enough to sign up to a system that wants access to your email address book then ......? One could of course, were one a trusting soul, create a specific email account for facebook with nowt else in it.
It's got nothing to do with e-mail addresses.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 02:01:00 PM
I trust these Scottish MSPs will receive equal amounts of scorn and derision from Faithlilly et al?
Dundee Call for UK police to investigate Cyprus abduction attempt claims By Mark Mackay, 20 June 2015 8.25am.
There have been calls for UK officers to assist Cypriot police with the investigation.Supplied
Terrifying allegations of child abduction abroad should be investigated by UK police amidst claims of a cover-up, Scots MSPs have said.
Authorities have poured scorn on statements made by a Dundee man – and other tourists from Scotland – that a gang of child snatchers attempted to seize youngsters at a holiday resort in Cyprus.
That has sparked fears that the incident has not been treated seriously – and Scots politicians have now risked a diplomatic furore by calling for UK intervention in the investigation.
Liz Smith MSP said it was “perfectly in order” for the tourists to seek help from UK police if they are concerned by Cypriot handling of the incident.
Colleague Alex Johnstone MSP pledged to raise the matter at Westminster in light of concerns.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 02:12:24 PM
Do you deny that there is a concerted effort by the likes of Poulton, Bennett, Blacksmith et al to "educate the masses of sheeple" who have been "indoctrinated" by the "McCann-biased MSM" ? Do you deny that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook groups about the case, sometimes without their knowledge? Do you deny that there are countless individuals who have claimed on social media that they had fallen for the "McCann Scam" until they'd joined one of these groups and been shown the error of their ways? If you want to describe these people and organised sceptic groups as child-catchers then those are your words not mine.
Firstly I have seen no 'concentrated effort' by anyone to educate the masses. I have seen individuals express in public their doubts about the McCanns and individuals with the same doubts agreeing. That their opinions doesn't match yours is unfortunate but hey, that's democracy for you.
Secondly claiming that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook pages without their knowledge is a serious allegation and one I hope you can back up with a cite.
Thirdly no one joins a sceptic group unless they have had serious doubts about the perceived narrative already, why would they ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2015, 02:15:36 PM
Firstly I have seen no 'concentrated effort' by anyone to educate the masses. I have seen individuals express in public their doubts about the McCanns and individuals with the same doubts agreeing. That their opinions doesn't match yours is unfortunate but hey, that's democracy for you.
Secondly claiming that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook pages without their knowledge is a serious allegation and one I hope you can back up with a cite.
Thirdly no one joins a sceptic group unless they have had serious doubts about the perceived narrative already, why would they ?
claiming that the McCanns have lied to the police....have covered up Maddies death ...have committed fraud through the fund..is a serious allegation
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 02:16:04 PM
I trust these Scottish MSPs will receive equal amounts of scorn and derision from Faithlilly et al?
Dundee Call for UK police to investigate Cyprus abduction attempt claims By Mark Mackay, 20 June 2015 8.25am.
There have been calls for UK officers to assist Cypriot police with the investigation.Supplied
Terrifying allegations of child abduction abroad should be investigated by UK police amidst claims of a cover-up, Scots MSPs have said.
Authorities have poured scorn on statements made by a Dundee man – and other tourists from Scotland – that a gang of child snatchers attempted to seize youngsters at a holiday resort in Cyprus.
That has sparked fears that the incident has not been treated seriously – and Scots politicians have now risked a diplomatic furore by calling for UK intervention in the investigation.
Liz Smith MSP said it was “perfectly in order” for the tourists to seek help from UK police if they are concerned by Cypriot handling of the incident.
Colleague Alex Johnstone MSP pledged to raise the matter at Westminster in light of concerns.
No direct quotes then.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 02:22:04 PM
Firstly I have seen no 'concentrated effort' by anyone to educate the masses. I have seen individuals express in public their doubts about the McCanns and individuals with the same doubts agreeing. That their opinions doesn't match yours is unfortunate but hey, that's democracy for you.
Secondly claiming that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook pages without their knowledge is a serious allegation and one I hope you can back up with a cite.
Thirdly no one joins a sceptic group unless they have had serious doubts about the perceived narrative already, why would they ?
Firstly, well you would say that wouldn't you? Secondly, my cite will be forthcoming once I've had your cite (previously requested by me) for the hundreds of thousands of people that liked the OFM FB page almost overnight. Inciddentally I didn't claim 100s had been added without their knowledge, re-read my post. Thirdly, are you telling me that no one has ever joined a sceptic group (wittingly or unwittingly) out of curiosity or because a friend was already in the group and added them without their asking?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 02:23:13 PM
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 02:28:09 PM
The strapline of Jill Havern's Forum is
What really happened to Madeleine McCann?
Why not join our forum and help search for the truth?
That is a recruitment advertisement is it not?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
Madeleine McCann: Unite For Justice (scary overtones of a movement there if ever I heard one) FB Page says:
Please join us in our search for truth and justice for Madeleine McCann
Actively seeking new members, yes?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 02:34:04 PM
Controversy FB page has a long ranting introduction culminating in:
If you're not angry yet, you're not paying attention!
We are. Join us if you are too. We WILL NOT allow a cover up.
WE WANT ANSWERS!
Please join us and refuse to accept a whitewash, or a dead criminal being fitted up for an abduction that never happened. (The latter has been attempted more than once.)
That's actively seeking to recruit new members as far as I can see...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 02:47:33 PM
Firstly, well you would say that wouldn't you? Secondly, my cite will be forthcoming once I've had your cite (previously requested by me) for the hundreds of thousands of people that liked the OFM FB page almost overnight. Inciddentally I didn't claim 100s had been added without their knowledge, re-read my post. Thirdly, are you telling me that no one has ever joined a sceptic group (wittingly or unwittingly) out of curiosity or because a friend was already in the group and added them without their asking?
Firstly of course I would because it's true.
Secondly this is what you said 'Do you deny that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook groups about the case, sometimes without their knowledge?.' So how many do you think have been added to Facebook groups 'without their knowledge' Alfie.
As to your third point when a friend adds you to a Facebook group you are informed and can leave if you wish.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 02:50:23 PM
Controversy FB page has a long ranting introduction culminating in:
If you're not angry yet, you're not paying attention!
We are. Join us if you are too. We WILL NOT allow a cover up.
WE WANT ANSWERS!
Please join us and refuse to accept a whitewash, or a dead criminal being fitted up for an abduction that never happened. (The latter has been attempted more than once.)
Not sure what you point is Alfie. That's actively seeking to recruit new members as far as I can see...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 03:56:53 PM
Secondly this is what you said 'Do you deny that hundreds of people have been added to Facebook groups about the case, sometimes without their knowledge?.' So how many do you think have been added to Facebook groups 'without their knowledge' Alfie.
As to your third point when a friend adds you to a Facebook group you are informed and can leave if you wish.
Firstly, truth is subjective - in my opinion what you say is not true. Secondly, I don't have a specific number because I'm not quite sad enough to log numbers of disgruntled FB "sceptic" site add-ees. I've seen several people complain about being added, put it that way. You will of course choose to disbelieve me, that's fine - it's your choice. Thirdly - yes, people can leave if they wish but that is beside the point, which was that there is a recruitment drive in operation to increase forum and facebook numbers. That is why links to both are frequently tweeted too.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2015, 05:10:07 PM
Firstly, truth is subjective - in my opinion what you say is not true. Secondly, I don't have a specific number because I'm not quite sad enough to log numbers of disgruntled FB "sceptic" site add-ees. I've seen several people complain about being added, put it that way. You will of course choose to disbelieve me, that's fine - it's your choice. Thirdly - yes, people can leave if they wish but that is beside the point, which was that there is a recruitment drive in operation to increase forum and facebook numbers. That is why links to both are frequently tweeted too.
Firstly okay dokey.
Secondly I don't believe you and yes it is my choice.
Thirdly you can't make people believe something they don't want to. People join groups etc because that's where the evidence leads them. No one is forced to join and no one is stopped from leaving so I really don't understand your gripe?.......nope scrub that yes I do. You just can't fathom how anyone could possibly believe anything different from you unless they were coerced into it. Problem is you have nothing but anecdotal evidence that that has ever happened.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2015, 05:22:53 PM
Secondly I don't believe you and yes it is my choice.
Thirdly you can't make people believe something they don't want to. People join groups etc because that's where the evidence leads them. No one is forced to join and no one is stopped from leaving so I really don't understand your gripe?.......nope scrub that yes I do. You just can't fathom how anyone could possibly believe anything different from you unless they were coerced into it. Problem is you have nothing but anecdotal evidence that that has ever happened.
what we do know is that amaral has fed lies to the public and the gullible have believed them...beliefs based on lies are worthless... you only have to look at amarals gofundme page to see examples
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 20, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
what we do know is that amaral has fed lies to the public and the gullible have believed them...beliefs based on lies are worthless... you only have to look at amarals gofundme page to see examples
Oh dear, he we go again.
Pro mccann propaganda.
Boring.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 20, 2015, 05:27:31 PM
Secondly I don't believe you and yes it is my choice.
Thirdly you can't make people believe something they don't want to. People join groups etc because that's where the evidence leads them. No one is forced to join and no one is stopped from leaving so I really don't understand your gripe?.......nope scrub that yes I do. You just can't fathom how anyone could possibly believe anything different from you unless they were coerced into it. Problem is you have nothing but anecdotal evidence that that has ever happened.
Believe what you want. I know for a fact that Facebook "sceptic" groups and forums actively seek out new recruits to bolster "Maddie's Army" of justice seekers. They do this by tweeting links to pages and sites, and by getting existing members to add their own friends. Numbers are very important to the justice seekers, hence why people like you like to compare and contrast numbers of donors to Amaral's Fund vs Kate's charity bike ridde, for instance. It gives you great comfort because you believe the numbers tell you that your crusade is just and that the army is growing and that collectively your 8 year "truth" campaign is bearing fruit.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 20, 2015, 05:32:40 PM
Tell me, do you approve of the "pro Amaral" propaganda on this forum, Stephen?
Define pro amaral propaganda... Are you referring to what he has written in 'the truth of the lie'? or the fact people like me support his right to freedom of expression. Not necessarily agreeing or liking what he wrote?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2015, 06:49:16 PM
Define pro amaral propaganda... Are you referring to what he has written in 'the truth of the lie'? or the fact people like me support his right to freedom of expression. Not necessarily agreeing or liking what he wrote?
pro amaral propaganda...lies repeated on the website to build support....
Fact, evidence confirms someone died in apartment 5a.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 20, 2015, 06:50:47 PM
Define pro amaral propaganda... Are you referring to what he has written in 'the truth of the lie'? or the fact people like me support his right to freedom of expression. Not necessarily agreeing or liking what he wrote?
Tell me, does the right to freedom of expression include the right to tell malicious lies about someone? Not specifically talking about Amaral, but generally speaking. For example would it be ok with you for a journalist to track you down and write in a national newspaper that you are a vicious McCann bashing troll, with a deeply ugly personality and looks to match? I guess you'd support the journo's right to do that unconditionally, yes?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 20, 2015, 07:00:12 PM
Define pro amaral propaganda... Are you referring to what he has written in 'the truth of the lie'? or the fact people like me support his right to freedom of expression. Not necessarily agreeing or liking what he wrote?
Stephen was complaining about "pro McCann propaganda" on this forum. I was merely asking what he though about the "pro Amaral" propaganda here - form a few posters - (not you as it happens)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 20, 2015, 07:39:59 PM
He was removed after complaining about interference in the case. 8(0(*
Interference from whom?
IIRC he was removed for breaking the secrecy laws by whining to a journalist about the UK police. His removal was totally self-inflicted and not before time. Having been made an Arguido - he should never have been let near the case in the first place.
IMO
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 20, 2015, 07:41:19 PM
IIRC he was removed for breaking the secrecy laws by whining to a journalist about the UK police. His removal was totally self-inflicted and not before time. Having been made an Arguido - he should never have been let near the case in the first place.
IMO
Rubbish.
As if you didn't know. 8)--))
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2015, 07:43:51 PM
I'm merely asking you to back up your claims with the evidence you have for making them. That is normal practice on this forum so what is there to object to in that request?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 20, 2015, 08:28:43 PM
I'm merely asking you to back up your claims with the evidence you have for making them. That is normal practice on this forum so what is there to object to in that request?
Now where exactly in my post did I mention see recycling laws Benice ?
Do you enjoy making things up ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 20, 2015, 08:47:11 PM
Believe what you want. I know for a fact that Facebook "sceptic" groups and forums actively seek out new recruits to bolster "Maddie's Army" of justice seekers. They do this by tweeting links to pages and sites, and by getting existing members to add their own friends. Numbers are very important to the justice seekers, hence why people like you like to compare and contrast numbers of donors to Amaral's Fund vs Kate's charity bike ridde, for instance. It gives you great comfort because you believe the numbers tell you that your crusade is just and that the army is growing and that collectively your 8 year "truth" campaign is bearing fruit.
Explain to me Alfie what would be the use of anyone adding their friends to a Facebook group when firstly the friend is not interested in the case and secondly will remove themselves at the first opportunity ? As to posting or tweeting links to pages and sites, there is no one more guilty of that than you and your compadres.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 20, 2015, 10:24:53 PM
Explain to me Alfie what would be the use of anyone adding their friends to a Facebook group when firstly the friend is not interested in the case and secondly will remove themselves at the first opportunity ? As to posting or tweeting links to pages and sites, there is no one more guilty of that than you and your compadres.
The point of adding people to your groups is to swell numbers and convert people to the cause of course. Some people may choose to remove themselves but some might be persuaded by the myths you lot peddle that there is something worth staying for.
Please provide evidence of me posting and tweeting links to pages an sites please. I have linked to a science paper about scent dogs but never to a propaganda site, unlike yourself and your devotion to the Stud Muffin's blog that you never cease to promote.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2015, 10:54:02 PM
I don't understand the type of person who with malice aforethought indulges in vicious attacks on Madeleine McCann's parents and who have kept up concerted campaigns intended for their detriment. The fact that these onslaughts have continued for over eight years is beyond reason and belief.
What is the justification? Who benefits? Most certainly not Madeleine.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 20, 2015, 10:56:12 PM
The point of adding people to your groups is to swell numbers and convert people to the cause of course. Some people may choose to remove themselves but some might be persuaded by the myths you lot peddle that there is something worth staying for.
Absolutely right. To swell numbers and spread propaganda.
To hurt The Mccanns and to try and change the public perception of Amaral.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 20, 2015, 11:06:08 PM
I don't understand the type of person who with malice aforethought indulges in vicious attacks on Madeleine McCann's parents and who have kept up concerted campaigns intended for their detriment. The fact that these onslaughts have continued for over eight years is beyond reason and belief.
What is the justification? Who benefits? Most certainly not Madeleine.
8@??)( 8@??)(
There are only two reasons that I can think of.
1) Because the attacking type person gets pleasure out of trying to destroy The Mccanns. It makes them feel big and important to bully people who never answer back.
2) The attacking person is part of a group desperately trying to hide what really happened, cos if "they" are found out, their money making and /or pleasure making ventures will be exposed. They might lose a lot of income or end up in jail.
Maybe both.
Any other suggestions Faith? Please do not say that it is getting Justice for Madeleine, cos that is plainly untrue
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 20, 2015, 11:14:57 PM
Where is your evidence that Amaral did not break the Secrecy laws by talking to a journalist?
Where is your evidence that he did? He "slagged off" the UK police to put it one way. See extract from his book.
If anyone broke the secrecy laws it was Jane Tanner but the PJ weren't so peurile as to go after her.
On Monday August 1st, I go back to work at DIC in Portimão, where two pieces of news are waiting for me: officials at Buckingham Palace have received an email informing them that a little girl – Madeleine – has disappeared from a hotel complex situated….in Lisbon! The second was brought to us by an English tourist – Kate – on holiday in Praia da Luz: she allegedly saw a stranger hanging about near the Baptista supermarket in the vicinity of the Ocean Club.
BAD RESPONSE TO A JOURNALIST This is where we’re at: reduced to receiving that type of tip-off and chasing a phantom, that of the imaginary abductor. This Monday gets off to a bad start, with its load of irritation and preoccupations.
In the evening, while driving, I receive an unidentified phone call, the last straw…A journalist asks me if I want to comment on the subject of the email. Whether due to the difficult day, the raging storm or the fact of driving through rain…I lose my cool. I reply, irritably, without thinking, that the message is of no interest and that it would be better for the English police to occupy themselves with the Portuguese investigation. Even as I am hanging up, I realise that I have not only made a blunder, but I have been unfair towards the majority of the British police who have helped us throughout these difficult months. I drive on, certain that I have triggered a diplomatic incident with predictable consequences: as soon as these simple words are made public, I risk not being able to continue to direct the Portimão Department of Criminal Investigation.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: faithlilly on June 21, 2015, 12:19:23 AM
I think I have posted this in the wrong thread ... but as you have noted in your inimitable style (don't think too many are queuing up to imitate) there are parallels which are striking. Interestingly it is said that some of the perpetrators had worn staff uniform to allow themselves to blend in. Others had been seen all week ... just other holidaymakers enjoying themselves and relaxing.
Parallels which are striking ? Indeed Brietta, both abduction stories are a load of old ballcocks !
HomeCyprus Protaras child ‘kidnap’ turns into U.K. media frenzy JUNE 19TH, 2015 CYPRUS 110 COMMENTS Protaras child ‘kidnap’ turns into U.K. media frenzyCYPRUS
By Constantinos Psillides
BRITISH media reporting on the alleged attempted kidnapping of three youngsters at a Protaras hotel, “has been completely blown out of proportion and it’s all wrong,” an eyewitness has told the Cyprus Mail, as others now believe they “over-reacted” after hearing rumours and “Chinese whispers” that a child kidnap gang was in action.
The incident took place on Tuesday, when guests at a wedding party held at Anastasia hotel in Protaras attacked a Bulgarian man after they apparently thought he had been trying to kidnap their children. Subsequent press reports claimed the alleged abduction attempt had been the work of a gang that had been planning it for days.
Delivery driver from Glasgow James Hagan, 54, dismissed the reports and claimed some of the people involved acknowledged having gone “overboard and over-reacting”, and apologised to the hotel staff.
“There were lots of crazy stories about things that never happened,” he told the Cyprus Mail.
“There was definitely no kidnap attempt. Some of those involved told me later ‘we went overboard’. Some apologised to staff later, saying they over-reacted.”
Another tourist, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that while he wasn’t part of the wedding party that was taking place at the hotel at the time, he witnessed what happened firsthand.
“At some point we heard a large commotion and screams. Somebody attacked a young man yelling ‘Paedophile! Paedophile!’ and then suddenly a group of around 50 people were chasing him,” he said.
“We joined them and chased two people to the front desk, a man and a woman. Police came and took the young man in custody – a 19-year-old Bulgarian — but let the woman go because it turned out that she had nothing to do with the incident; she just happened to be there.”
“That’s what really happened, nothing more,” said the holidaymaker, adding that he was appalled after reading wildly exaggerated news reports on the story.
A Sheffield couple, who are friends with the man who chased and punched the Bulgarian, offered a similar account.
“My friend said this ‘gypsy’ had put his arms around his 7-year-old son in the pool earlier that afternoon,” the couple said.
“His wife shouted the man out, but later she saw him back in the foyer. [My friend] ran in and punched him a few times, hard, shouting ‘You had your arms around my kid in the pool’. He wasn’t shouting anything about kidnap gangs.”
But then, the couple recalled, “loads of people rushed into the foyer, saying ‘that’s the paedo’.”
British media reported that a gang of three persons – two men and one woman, all Romanians – were filming kids and trying to lure them away to a pick-up truck, and that their attempt was foiled at the last minute by a passerby.
The third gang member supposedly left in a getaway car which crashed a short while after leaving the hotel.
“It was Chinese whispers, a lot of rumours,” another eyewitness said.
“[In the foyer, the Bulgarian] looked terrified, he was cowering. I didn’t see him get punched.”
It was also reported that the gang was 18-person strong and that the Romanians where stalking children throughout the week, posing as hotel waiters.
“We saw nothing suspicious all the time we were here and there’s absolutely no truth to the story some of these people were dressed up as waiters,” Hagan said.
“They said that child snatchers were posing as hotel staff. That’s completely ridiculous, I have no idea where they got that from,” the anonymous holidaymaker confirmed.
“I also noticed that some have been connecting this incident to the Madeleine case. That is both wrong and disrespectful,” stressed the holidaymaker, referring to the famous case of then three-year old Madeleine McCann who disappeared from her room while holidaying with her family in a holiday resort in Portugal in 2007.
“I really don’t think there’s a child-trafficking gang in the area, and it’s shameful for the Mirror to bring up Madeleine McCann,” another Briton said.
Tony Blackhurst, a 47-year-old self-employed butcher from Southport, in Cyprus with his wife and 9-year-old daughter, said that while he wasn’t sure what had happened, he and his family still enjoyed their stay.
“A lot of people were blaming the [hotel] staff and Thomas Cook for the security but I feel they were very good throughout and did everything they could,” he said.
“They were very helpful, offering to move families to different hotels if they wanted. They offered to put us in a five-star hotel, which is an upgrade – as this is a four-star. We didn’t want to move because my daughter’s made friends at the hotel and didn’t want to go. We’ve still enjoyed our stay.”
Meanwhile, a source close to the investigation told the Cyprus Mail that the parents of the 19-year old Bulgarian that was arrested are employed by the company that owns Anastasia Beach hotel, Tsokkos Hotels.
The 19-year old apparently spent a lot of time in the hotel, frequenting the pool area.
The source said that on the 19-year-old’s phone, police found four pictures, none of which depicted children.
“They were pictures of a hotel show. We went through the suspect’s phone, we searched his house thoroughly and found absolutely nothing to suggest that he was a paedophile or a kidnapper, or that he was part of a gang.”
Police have repeatedly rejected claims of child abduction.
The government also entered the fray, rejecting the reports as “unnecessary and unsubstantiated.”
“The government wishes to emphatically stress that Cyprus was and remains one of the safest tourist destinations worldwide, both for locals and foreign visitors and their children,” deputy government spokesman Victoras Papadopoulos said on Friday.
Meanwhile, the Cyprus High Commission in London issued a statement stressing that the police investigation into the allegations produced nothing incriminating.
The statement notes that the concerns of parents regarding the safety of their children are fully appreciated and that the allegations were taken seriously by the authorities in Cyprus.
It added that police statements taken from the British parents who filed the complaint, as well as from the children themselves did not corroborate the allegations.
Therefore, the High Commission describes the various press reports in the UK alleging a planned abduction of children as “unsubstantiated.”
“The news stories in the UK media do not reflect the facts, thus unfairly tarnishing the good reputation of Cyprus”, continued the statement.
(Additional reporting by special correspondent in Protaras)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 21, 2015, 12:27:01 AM
Good one Faithlilly, I read about this story on another forum (NOT a McCann related one) and all the latest media links, but couldn't find it to post. Thanks.
8((()*/
It's "head shaking" material.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 21, 2015, 11:34:30 AM
Where is your evidence that he did? He "slagged off" the UK police to put it one way. See extract from his book.
If anyone broke the secrecy laws it was Jane Tanner but the PJ weren't so peurile as to go after her.
On Monday August 1st, I go back to work at DIC in Portimão, where two pieces of news are waiting for me: officials at Buckingham Palace have received an email informing them that a little girl – Madeleine – has disappeared from a hotel complex situated….in Lisbon! The second was brought to us by an English tourist – Kate – on holiday in Praia da Luz: she allegedly saw a stranger hanging about near the Baptista supermarket in the vicinity of the Ocean Club.
BAD RESPONSE TO A JOURNALIST This is where we’re at: reduced to receiving that type of tip-off and chasing a phantom, that of the imaginary abductor. This Monday gets off to a bad start, with its load of irritation and preoccupations.
In the evening, while driving, I receive an unidentified phone call, the last straw…A journalist asks me if I want to comment on the subject of the email. Whether due to the difficult day, the raging storm or the fact of driving through rain…I lose my cool. I reply, irritably, without thinking, that the message is of no interest and that it would be better for the English police to occupy themselves with the Portuguese investigation. Even as I am hanging up, I realise that I have not only made a blunder, but I have been unfair towards the majority of the British police who have helped us throughout these difficult months. I drive on, certain that I have triggered a diplomatic incident with predictable consequences: as soon as these simple words are made public, I risk not being able to continue to direct the Portimão Department of Criminal Investigation.
By his own admission he was talking to a journalist about the case. If that isn't breaking the secrecy laws - then maybe you can explain why it isn't.
Stephen claimed that Amaral left because of 'interference' - but by his own admission he had made a blunder so big that it could trigger a diplomatic incident and get him removed from the case. No mention at all of 'interference' being the reason.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 21, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
I don't understand the type of person who with malice aforethought indulges in vicious attacks on Madeleine McCann's parents and who have kept up concerted campaigns intended for their detriment. The fact that these onslaughts have continued for over eight years is beyond reason and belief.
What is the justification? Who benefits? Most certainly not Madeleine.
Well indeed, now would you please name and shame these people Brietta SO we can avoid them like the plague. and be a real dear and report those who do so on this forum.
Thanks in advance.
Oh just for clarification do you consider people who do not 'support' one favoured thesis,unproved by the family , that there was a stranger abduction who gained entry through a'jemmied'window and stole Maddie?
Or those who remind people ( who seem to forget or try to re write history),that the parents did facilitate Maddies fate( what ever that is/was) by their behaviour and lack of concern for their children on that and previous nights?
Again thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 21, 2015, 06:49:00 PM
By his own admission he was talking to a journalist about the case. If that isn't breaking the secrecy laws - then maybe you can explain why it isn't.
Stephen claimed that Amaral left because of 'interference' - but by his own admission he had made a blunder so big that it could trigger a diplomatic incident and get him removed from the case. No mention at all of 'interference' being the reason.
Don't be so silly, if everyone was guilty of the crime of breaking secrecy laws, so many would be in court. Get some perspective. Telling a journo who got his number (and splashed the convo the next day on the front page) who asked him what he thought of an email to prince Charles, that the UK police should ignore cranks and just work with the PJ is hardly crime if the century. It hasn't escaped my notice that you did not respond to my mention of Tanner telling the BBC about very particular aspects of the investigation. Also do not forget the Mccanns lawyer tried to get Mr Amaral on secrecy laws and was thrown out of court. it's all hogwash.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 21, 2015, 09:03:27 PM
Don't be so silly, if everyone was guilty of the crime of breaking secrecy laws, so many would be in court. Get some perspective. Telling a journo who got his number (and splashed the convo the next day on the front page) who asked him what he thought of an email to prince Charles, that the UK police should ignore cranks and just work with the PJ is hardly crime if the century. It hasn't escaped my notice that you did not respond to my mention of Tanner telling the BBC about very particular aspects of the investigation. Also do not forget the Mccanns lawyer tried to get Mr Amaral on secrecy laws and was thrown out of court. it's all hogwash.
So IYO it's OK for the lead investigator to break the secrecy laws - but very serious if a witness does it.
If Amaral regarded the incident to be as trivial as you seem to - then why did he describe it as a blunder which could cause a diplomatic incident and lead to his being removed from his job? That doesn't sound trivial to me.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 21, 2015, 09:07:40 PM
So IYO it's OK for the lead investigator to break the secrecy laws - but very serious if a witness does it.
If Amaral regarded the incident to be as trivial as you seem to - then why did he describe it as a blunder which could cause a diplomatic incident and lead to his being removed from his job? That doesn't sound trivial to me.
Firstly, my post explained why I thought he HADNT broken the secrecy laws as opposed to Tanner. Secondly, even if he triggered a diplomatic incident, has nothing to do with secrecy laws
OK now?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 21, 2015, 11:00:23 PM
Well indeed, now would you please name and shame these people Brietta SO we can avoid them like the plague. and be a real dear and report those who do so on this forum.
Thanks in advance.
Oh just for clarification do you consider people who do not 'support' one favoured thesis,unproved by the family , that there was a stranger abduction who gained entry through a'jemmied'window and stole Maddie?
Or those who remind people ( who seem to forget or try to re write history),that the parents did facilitate Maddies fate( what ever that is/was) by their behaviour and lack of concern for their children on that and previous nights?
Again thank you in advance.
Oh dear, what a pity we cant.
What a pity that the forum would do nothing about these unkind, uncaring and quite often lying people, even if we could.
There would hardly be a soul on your side Mistaken, ... two or three maybe.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 21, 2015, 11:40:29 PM
Well indeed, now would you please name and shame these people Brietta SO we can avoid them like the plague. and be a real dear and report those who do so on this forum.
Thanks in advance.
Oh just for clarification do you consider people who do not 'support' one favoured thesis,unproved by the family , that there was a stranger abduction who gained entry through a'jemmied'window and stole Maddie?
Or those who remind people ( who seem to forget or try to re write history),that the parents did facilitate Maddies fate( what ever that is/was) by their behaviour and lack of concern for their children on that and previous nights?
Again thank you in advance.
It seems quite clear that no-one on this forum is saying anything which is not allowed. If they were they wouldn't be here, they'd be banned. There are people elsewhere on the internet who overstep the mark, but I see no point in referring to them here, it serves no useful purpose.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 21, 2015, 11:46:51 PM
It seems quite clear that no-one on this forum is saying anything which is not allowed. If they were they wouldn't be here, they'd be banned. There are people elsewhere on the internet who overstep the mark, but I see no point in referring to them here, it serves no useful purpose.
Quite.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 22, 2015, 12:14:03 AM
What a pity that the forum would do nothing about these unkind, uncaring and quite often lying people, even if we could.
There would hardly be a soul on your side Mistaken, ... two or three maybe.
Lying people exist on the other"side" as you put it, even if yiu stick your fingers in your ears about them Don't polarise the debate anymore than it is please as you add to the negativity
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2015, 12:14:37 AM
Don't be so silly, if everyone was guilty of the crime of breaking secrecy laws, so many would be in court. Get some perspective. Telling a journo who got his number (and splashed the convo the next day on the front page) who asked him what he thought of an email to prince Charles, that the UK police should ignore cranks and just work with the PJ is hardly crime if the century. It hasn't escaped my notice that you did not respond to my mention of Tanner telling the BBC about very particular aspects of the investigation. Also do not forget the Mccanns lawyer tried to get Mr Amaral on secrecy laws and was thrown out of court. it's all hogwash.
Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro seems to have given the matter of secrecy some serious consideration ... she also considered that Mr Amaral had denied Madeleine McCann's parents their right to innocence. So ... what does she think she knows ... obviously it must all be hogwash if you say so.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 22, 2015, 05:06:29 AM
Lying people exist on the other"side" as you put it, even if yiu stick your fingers in your ears about them Don't polarise the debate anymore than it is please as you add to the negativity
Absolute rubbish. We have no need to lie. we use facts.
But your side often lies. We have the added burden of having to deal with myths, twisting of facts and downright lies.
Plus the frequent accusations from certain posters on your side that our side is not being truthful, when it is. Deliberate attempts to make us appear liars.
Such underhand tactics.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: slartibartfast on June 22, 2015, 06:54:27 AM
Absolute rubbish. We have no need to lie. we use facts.
But your side often lies. We have the added burden of having to deal with myths, twisting of facts and downright lies.
Plus the frequent accusations from certain posters on your side that our side is not being truthful, when it is. Deliberate attempts to make us appear liars.
Such underhand tactics.
Posting repeatedly that your own side is clearly winning the argument is a sign of desperation.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2015, 07:27:57 AM
The parents of any missing child matter. Anyone who says otherwise lacks a lot in their make up.
Surely you dont lack a lot. &%+((£
Do you Carly ?
A missing child has an immense effect on immediate as well as extended family members. Obviously people have not been reading what siblings of the missing go through or if they have read, it means nothing possibly because they really don't care.
One of the most important things the parents of a missing child can achieve is to ensure as normal and stable a life as is possible for the children they still have.
Anyone intending to harm the parents of a missing child by definition are harming that child's siblings ... that is unforgivable.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 22, 2015, 09:00:40 PM
A missing child has an immense effect on immediate as well as extended family members. Obviously people have not been reading what siblings of the missing go through or if they have read, it means nothing possibly because they really don't care.
One of the most important things the parents of a missing child can achieve is to ensure as normal and stable a life as is possible for the children they still have.
Anyone intending to harm the parents of a missing child by definition are harming that child's siblings ... that is unforgivable.
Crime not established.
You do not know who removed Madeleine from the apartment.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2015, 09:03:45 PM
I dont know who the lifters and actual on the spot abductors were, but I have ideas.
My interest has been in the man who ordered Madeleine and paid his abduction team
Nigh night stephen. Sleep well.
So, as I said all hot air and no facts.
Still no evidence of abduction, in the real world.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 07:08:18 AM
The parents of a stolen child must suffer horribly. I can imagine the desperation and fear of what's happened which the parents must go through. I've seen them on TV, sobbing and begging for their child to be returned. It's very upsetting.
Then the McCann couple appeared on my TV screen. Emotionless. Expressionless. Defensive. Reading from crib sheets. Referring to Madeleine as 'a child', not 'my child', not 'our child', not 'my daughter', not 'our daughter'. Lots of animated descriptions of slamming doors and whoosing curtains, along with actions. Not a word of how it felt to discover that empty bed. Never a tear.
I watched in disbelief. How controlled and cold. Clutching each other always. Why? No sign of breaking down when they spoke of her. No having to stop to gain control of emotion.
They didn't convince me then and they still haven't convinced me that their daughter was stolen. Madeleine is missing, yes, but we don't know how or why. Judging by the parents behaviour, their desperate desire to see what evidence there was against them, their unconvincing statements, I can't accept that they are innocent victims. They may not have harmed their daughter but they're hiding something in my opinion.
Consequently I reserve judgement. They may just be unemotional unfeeling people. They may be able to exert iron control over their feelings. They may have thought the shutters were forced. They may still be asking people to look for Tannerman because they can't be bothered to update their website (does that 'harm the search'? Yes, if people haven't seen Crimewatch).
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2015, 07:14:20 AM
The parents of a stolen child must suffer horribly. I can imagine the desperation and fear of what's happened which the parents must go through. I've seen them on TV, sobbing and begging for their child to be returned. It's very upsetting.
Then the McCann couple appeared on my TV screen. Emotionless. Expressionless. Defensive. Reading from crib sheets. Referring to Madeleine as 'a child', not 'my child', not 'our child', not 'my daughter', not 'our daughter'. Lots of animated descriptions of slamming doors and whoosing curtains, along with actions. Not a word of how it felt to discover that empty bed. Never a tear.
I watched in disbelief. How controlled and cold. Clutching each other always. Why? No sign of breaking down when they spoke of her. No having to stop to gain control of emotion.
They didn't convince me then and they still haven't convinced me that their daughter was stolen. Madeleine is missing, yes, but we don't know how or why. Judging by the parents behaviour, their desperate desire to see what evidence there was against them, their unconvincing statements, I can't accept that they are innocent victims. They may not have harmed their daughter but they're hiding something in my opinion.
Consequently I reserve judgement. They may just be unemotional unfeeling people. They may be able to exert iron control over their feelings. They may have thought the shutters were forced. They may still be asking people to look for Tannerman because they can't be bothered to update their website (does that 'harm the search'? Yes, if people haven't seen Crimewatch).
I've seen the McCanns showing lots of emotion...I think what we know about the case convinces me they are telling the truth...
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 07:33:21 AM
you really dislike them don't you...and that colours all your opinions.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2015, 07:59:55 AM
What you both show is how biased your opinions are...you totally ignore the times when kate has shown how broken she is...how Gerry broke down and cried on the phone to his family...this is why your conclusions are just wrong
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 08:01:31 AM
What you both show is how biased your opinions are...you totally ignore the times when kate has shown how broken she is...how Gerry broke down and cried on the phone to his family...this is why your conclusions are just wrong
I'm happy to view anything which shows me how broken Kate is, please remind me. We only have hearsay evidence of Gerry breaking down. Roaring and lying on the floor kicking isn't crying by the way. The GNR said the couple 'made crying noises', they saw no real tears. His sister said he cried on the phone. She also said he told her the shutters had been jemmied and the apartment was locked. Are you choosing to believe some of what she said but not the rest of it?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 08:09:04 AM
you really dislike them don't you...and that colours all your opinions.
Nope. I have no feelings about them whatsoever, I don't know them. I dislike their behaviour which is quite a different matter and which I've seen and heard and read.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2015, 08:10:18 AM
I'm happy to view anything which shows me how broken Kate is, please remind me. We only have hearsay evidence of Gerry breaking down. Roaring and lying on the floor kicking isn't crying by the way. The GNR said the couple 'made crying noises', they saw no real tears. His sister said he cried on the phone. She also said he told her the shutters had been jemmied and the apartment was locked. Are you choosing to believe some of what she said but not the rest of it?
no...I'm showing a little intelligence in the way I interpret the information...something you seem unable to do...not everything is black and white...
you belittle "roaring and kicking on the floor".......what has happenend in your life to cause you to be so cold and heartless
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 08:11:34 AM
The parents of a stolen child must suffer horribly. I can imagine the desperation and fear of what's happened which the parents must go through. I've seen them on TV, sobbing and begging for their child to be returned. It's very upsetting.
Then the McCann couple appeared on my TV screen. Emotionless. Expressionless. Defensive. Reading from crib sheets. Referring to Madeleine as 'a child', not 'my child', not 'our child', not 'my daughter', not 'our daughter'. Lots of animated descriptions of slamming doors and whoosing curtains, along with actions. Not a word of how it felt to discover that empty bed. Never a tear.
I watched in disbelief. How controlled and cold. Clutching each other always. Why? No sign of breaking down when they spoke of her. No having to stop to gain control of emotion.
They didn't convince me then and they still haven't convinced me that their daughter was stolen. Madeleine is missing, yes, but we don't know how or why. Judging by the parents behaviour, their desperate desire to see what evidence there was against them, their unconvincing statements, I can't accept that they are innocent victims. They may not have harmed their daughter but they're hiding something in my opinion.
Consequently I reserve judgement. They may just be unemotional unfeeling people. They may be able to exert iron control over their feelings. They may have thought the shutters were forced. They may still be asking people to look for Tannerman because they can't be bothered to update their website (does that 'harm the search'? Yes, if people haven't seen Crimewatch).
The Drs McCann just cannot win as far as some people are concerned ... Kate doesn't cry ... Kate cries too much ... and goodness gracious, Gerry is pulling his right earlobe with his left hand ...
Shannon Matthews mother knew how to cry for the camera.
The mother of two small boys, Susan Smith, who blamed a black carjacker who had driven off with her sons in the back of her car, but who had actually cold bloodedly strapped them in and rolled the car with them in it into water, cried copiosly for the cameras.
It later emerged that her mother, Karen Matthews, who had made several tearful television appeals for Shannon’s return, staged her daughter’s disappearance and kept her captive in a ruse to collect £50,000 reward money offered by the Sun after the girl was “found”. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/apr/07/bbc-drama-shannon-matthews-kidnap-moorside-project
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2015, 08:12:32 AM
Nope. I have no feelings about them whatsoever, I don't know them. I dislike their behaviour which is quite a different matter and which I've seen and heard and read.
their behaviour and personality is part of them...however much you try and deny it...your utter dislike of them is obvious...shame you cannot be more truthful
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 23, 2015, 08:29:49 AM
Okay. Enough of the insults. I shall shortly be deleting entire posts if they contain an insult of any kind.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 08:36:24 AM
no...I'm showing a little intelligence in the way I interpret the information...something you seem unable to do...not everything is black and white...
you belittle "roaring and kicking on the floor".......what has happenend in your life to cause you to be so cold and heartless
I find it strange. These are not people who display their emotions, they are disciplined and in control. Roaring and kicking seems completely out of character. I am also disciplined and in control of my emotions, and roaring and kicking would be impossible for me.
I also know what it's like to lose a young family member. I know that you can't speak about them without breaking down. I know that you can't eat, sleep, watch TV, listen to music or have normal conversations for months, even years. I know that family bonds are tested to their limits. I know how hard it is to go to work and try to behave normally. I know how guilty everyone feels for every time they were impatient or unsympathetic to that person. I know what it feels like to have your heart broken. All that happens even when you know all the details of what happened to them.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 08:43:15 AM
their behaviour and personality is part of them...however much you try and deny it...your utter dislike of them is obvious...shame you cannot be more truthful
Are you calling me a liar? I love my children but I don't always like their behaviour. I am indifferent to the McCanns but I don't like their behaviour. Please explain the difference.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 08:45:21 AM
Are you calling me a liar? I love my children but I don't always like their behaviour. I am indifferent to the McCanns but I don't like their behaviour. Please explain the difference.
It seems certain people only have sympathy for the mccanns.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 23, 2015, 08:52:50 AM
It seems certain people only have sympathy for the mccanns.
the thing is i feel no sympathy for gerry and kate only maddie gerry and kate were adults they knew their choices and behaviour was wrong and still did it even after a 3 year old basically in her own little way that it was wrong and they brushed her off
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 23, 2015, 08:57:17 AM
The parents of a stolen child must suffer horribly. I can imagine the desperation and fear of what's happened which the parents must go through. I've seen them on TV, sobbing and begging for their child to be returned. It's very upsetting.
Then the McCann couple appeared on my TV screen. Emotionless. Expressionless. Defensive. Reading from crib sheets. Referring to Madeleine as 'a child', not 'my child', not 'our child', not 'my daughter', not 'our daughter'. Lots of animated descriptions of slamming doors and whoosing curtains, along with actions. Not a word of how it felt to discover that empty bed. Never a tear.
I watched in disbelief. How controlled and cold. Clutching each other always. Why? No sign of breaking down when they spoke of her. No having to stop to gain control of emotion.
They didn't convince me then and they still haven't convinced me that their daughter was stolen. Madeleine is missing, yes, but we don't know how or why. Judging by the parents behaviour, their desperate desire to see what evidence there was against them, their unconvincing statements, I can't accept that they are innocent victims. They may not have harmed their daughter but they're hiding something in my opinion.
Consequently I reserve judgement. They may just be unemotional unfeeling people. They may be able to exert iron control over their feelings. They may have thought the shutters were forced. They may still be asking people to look for Tannerman because they can't be bothered to update their website (does that 'harm the search'? Yes, if people haven't seen Crimewatch).
You seem to have forgotten that the McCanns were advised not to show emotion in public as the abductor could get a kick out of that.
You were not there with the McCanns. The people who were there have said how desperately distressed they both were. Are they all lying?
The fact that they depended greatly on the trauma counsellors - especially Alan Pike to help them to get through every parents worst nightmare should tell you something. Cold and emotionless people don't need counselling. IIRC the trauma counsellor said their reaction to the loss of their child was exactly what he would have expected and, unlike yourself, they actually spent a lot of time with them.
It seems to me that because the McCanns did not behave in exactly the way that YOU think they should have - then IYO that proves something nasty and unacceptable about them. For someone who has never been in their situation - that's quite an arrogant stance to take IMO
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 23, 2015, 08:59:35 AM
no...I'm showing a little intelligence in the way I interpret the information...something you seem unable to do...not everything is black and white...
you belittle "roaring and kicking on the floor".......what has happenend in your life to cause you to be so cold and heartless
What you mean is you believe Gerry's sister when she says Gerry cried, but not when she says he told her the apartment was locked and broken into. Not a terribly intelligent conclusion in my opinion. You still haven't pointed me at anything which supports your belief that Kate has demonstrated how 'broken' she is by the way. It's because not everything is black and white that I am justified in rejecting the abduction theory, which has been presented as the only theory worth investigating by the parents, no alternatives possible according to them. Had they been more open minded and left the investigation alone to reach it's own conclusions I may have been more sympathetic to their plight.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
You seem to have forgotten that the McCanns were advised not to show emotion in public as the abductor could get a kick out of that.
You were not there with the McCanns. The people who were there have said how desperately distressed they both were. Are they all lying?
The fact that they depended greatly on the trauma counsellors - especially Alan Pike to help them to get through every parents worst nightmare should tell you something. Cold and emotionless people don't need counselling. IIRC the trauma counsellor said their reaction to the loss of their child was exactly what he would have expected and, unlike yourself, they actually spent a lot of time with them.
It seems to me that because the McCanns did not behave in exactly the way that YOU think they should have - then IYO that proves something nasty and unacceptable about them. For someone who has never been in their situation - that's quite an arrogant stance to take IMO
8((()*/ WELL SAID BENICE
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 23, 2015, 09:07:51 AM
You seem to have forgotten that the McCanns were advised not to show emotion in public as the abductor could get a kick out of that.
You were not there with the McCanns. The people who were there have said how desperately distressed they both were. Are they all lying?
The fact that they depended greatly on the trauma counsellors - especially Alan Pike to help them to get through every parents worst nightmare should tell you something. Cold and emotionless people don't need counselling. IIRC the trauma counsellor said their reaction to the loss of their child was exactly what he would have expected and, unlike yourself, they actually spent a lot of time with them.
It seems to me that because the McCanns did not behave in exactly the way that YOU think they should have - then IYO that proves something nasty and unacceptable about them. For someone who has never been in their situation - that's quite an arrogant stance to take IMO
I have highlighted the most salient point you have made above. It seems some people think they can judge people's behaviour from short video clips much better than those who are experiencing that behaviour first hand and for long periods. You're right - it's supreme arrogance to assume you know better than experts with first hand knowledge but hasn't that been the case throughout?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 09:20:12 AM
I find it strange. These are not people who display their emotions, they are disciplined and in control. Roaring and kicking seems completely out of character. I am also disciplined and in control of my emotions, and roaring and kicking would be impossible for me.
I also know what it's like to lose a young family member. I know that you can't speak about them without breaking down. I know that you can't eat, sleep, watch TV, listen to music or have normal conversations for months, even years. I know that family bonds are tested to their limits. I know how hard it is to go to work and try to behave normally. I know how guilty everyone feels for every time they were impatient or unsympathetic to that person. I know what it feels like to have your heart broken. All that happens even when you know all the details of what happened to them.
You know that is how you felt. You know that is how you acted. Did you do that in private and in public put on the stiff upper lip so that no casual observer would have had any idea of the inner turmoil you were going through?
With due respect ... in your loss ... I doubt if you faced the barrage of cameras and analysis of your behaviour and every move that Madeleine McCann's family did.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 09:21:22 AM
If the McCanns had been found guilty of concealment of a cadaver or neglect, they would probably have served their sentence by now. However the punishment continues. What do you hope to achieve by attacking them on a daily basis? Just curious as to the reasons behind it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 23, 2015, 09:28:54 AM
Would the mccann supporters be so active, if the mccanns were a poor family from a council estate ?
Would some sceptics be so violently against the McCanns if they were a poor family from a council estate?
Where they live is of no interest to me as it has no bearing on the case.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 09:35:18 AM
Like everybody else on here, I know that there is no evidence of wrong doing. I don't know what happened to Madeleine. Maybe the parents were involved, I don't know. The only thing that I defend is the right to Innocent until proven guilty, It is not my place to be Judge and jury.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 09:36:20 AM
You seem to have forgotten that the McCanns were advised not to show emotion in public as the abductor could get a kick out of that.
You were not there with the McCanns. The people who were there have said how desperately distressed they both were. Are they all lying?
The fact that they depended greatly on the trauma counsellors - especially Alan Pike to help them to get through every parents worst nightmare should tell you something. Cold and emotionless people don't need counselling. IIRC the trauma counsellor said their reaction to the loss of their child was exactly what he would have expected and, unlike yourself, they actually spent a lot of time with them.
It seems to me that because the McCanns did not behave in exactly the way that YOU think they should have - then IYO that proves something nasty and unacceptable about them. For someone who has never been in their situation - that's quite an arrogant stance to take IMO
Strong emotion can't be controlled, it breaks out when you least expect it to . A word, a thought and you're gone. So quickly no control is possible. I don't base my opinion just on the parents behaviour before the cameras either. There are many 'pointers' as Sadie says which suggest to me that things are not as they should be. You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time as Abraham Lincoln put it. Thank you for your analysis of my stance. I can now add arrogance to untruthfulness, unintelligence and stupidity to my list of attributes. For caring and empathetic people some of you can sure dish out the insults.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 23, 2015, 09:40:52 AM
Any post containing an insult will be deleted in it's entirety.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 09:47:43 AM
You know that is how you felt. You know that is how you acted. Did you do that in private and in public put on the stiff upper lip so that no casual observer would have had any idea of the inner turmoil you were going through?
With due respect ... in your loss ... I doubt if you faced the barrage of cameras and analysis of your behaviour and every move that Madeleine McCann's family did.
I grieved as privately as I could, Brietta, because I don't like public shows of emotion. What I discovered was that you can't always control it. All it takes is for someone to say something innocently and the emotions escape with no warning. You can regain control, but you can't help losing it. I truly find it impossible to understand how this couple could discuss the case and never show signs of losing control, unless they were drugged to the eyeballs. Some of my family had to resort to such help at times just to carry on, but the emotion still escaped.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 09:52:23 AM
Strong emotion can't be controlled, it breaks out when you least expect it to . A word, a thought and you're gone. So quickly no control is possible. I don't base my opinion just on the parents behaviour before the cameras either. There are many 'pointers' as Sadie says which suggest to me that things are not as they should be. You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time as Abraham Lincoln put it. Thank you for your analysis of my stance. I can now add arrogance to untruthfulness, unintelligence and stupidity to my list of attributes. For caring and empathetic people some of you can sure dish out the insults.
Some of us do not fit in with that assumption, G. I would rather remove myself from the company of others before I cry, or embarrass myself, but that is how I am. Please correct me if I am wrong, but is this what you are saying.. You would be more likely to believe their account of what happened, if they were blubbering in full public view, even now after 8 years?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 09:53:26 AM
The BBC PANORAMA programme clarified so many of the calumnies directed at the McCanns at the time which were put around at the time in some sort of propaganda war and which have become the litany and common currency of the 'doubters'. People who have neglected to assimilate all that has transpired in Madeleine McCann's case ... in particular the FSS final report and the AG's report ... to cling onto the misinformation deliberately put about from the early days are in my opinion deceiving themselves.
I think in this way they can justify hounding and questioning the parents of that particular missing child because it satisfies an inner need of some kind. They are convinced they have the 'information' ... they just haven't yet worked out exactly why it is so flawed.
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE DATE: 19:11:07
JOHN McCANN: They were getting advice. If you're too tearful you're gonna have the emotional impact but you're not going to get the message over.
And yes what comes out of their mouths sounds measured, controlled, and.. you know, a nice tempo.
They don't speak like that normally. That is a false situation, okay, and they had to work damned hard to get to that place.
Because the number of tears before that were shed before they went out there, because I saw that. I was backstage there. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 09:59:29 AM
The BBC PANORAMA programme clarified so many of the calumnies directed at the McCanns at the time which were put around at the time in some sort of propaganda war and which have become the litany and common currency of the 'doubters'. People who have neglected to assimilate all that has transpired in Madeleine McCann's case ... in particular the FSS final report and the AG's report ... to cling onto the misinformation deliberately put about from the early days are in my opinion deceiving themselves.
I think in this way they can justify hounding and questioning the parents of that particular missing child because it satisfies an inner need of some kind. They are convinced they have the 'information' ... they just haven't yet worked out exactly why it is so flawed.
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE DATE: 19:11:07
JOHN McCANN: They were getting advice. If you're too tearful you're gonna have the emotional impact but you're not going to get the message over.
And yes what comes out of their mouths sounds measured, controlled, and.. you know, a nice tempo.
They don't speak like that normally. That is a false situation, okay, and they had to work damned hard to get to that place.
Because the number of tears before that were shed before they went out there, because I saw that. I was backstage there. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
The BBC program merely reflected the mccann message.
At what point did it deal with all possible scenarios into the disappearance of Madeleine ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 09:59:51 AM
I have highlighted the most salient point you have made above. It seems some people think they can judge people's behaviour from short video clips much better than those who are experiencing that behaviour first hand and for long periods. You're right - it's supreme arrogance to assume you know better than experts with first hand knowledge but hasn't that been the case throughout?
How true. The McCanns were convinced they knew better than the Portuguese Police. They thought their Private Investigators were more able to solve the case than the Portuguese Police. They thought they should be given all the evidence collected by the UK and Portuguese Police so they could carry out their own investigation. They thought is was acceptable to re-interview witnesses and harass them. They thought they could demonstrate the unreliability of the dogs. They thought they could control the media.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 10:04:11 AM
How true. The McCanns were convinced they knew better than the Portuguese Police. They thought their Private Investigators were more able to solve the case than the Portuguese Police. They thought they should be given all the evidence collected by the UK and Portuguese Police so they could carry out their own investigation. They thought is was acceptable to re-interview witnesses and harass them. They thought they could demonstrate the unreliability of the dogs. They thought they could control the media.
I think the McCanns were absolutely right.....it is not unusual to question professional judgement...people...particularly intelligent people do it all the time. no one on here was criticising Ashya Kings parents for thinking they knew more than the doctors...everything you bring up is easily countered
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 23, 2015, 10:05:45 AM
How true. The McCanns were convinced they knew better than the Portuguese Police. They thought their Private Investigators were more able to solve the case than the Portuguese Police. They thought they should be given all the evidence collected by the UK and Portuguese Police so they could carry out their own investigation. They thought is was acceptable to re-interview witnesses and harass them. They thought they could demonstrate the unreliability of the dogs. They thought they could control the media.
the mcanns and supporters have also harrased liabled and slandered a pollice officer for 8 years are they any better?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on June 23, 2015, 10:06:46 AM
Strong emotion can't be controlled, it breaks out when you least expect it to . A word, a thought and you're gone. So quickly no control is possible. I don't base my opinion just on the parents behaviour before the cameras either. There are many 'pointers' as Sadie says which suggest to me that things are not as they should be. You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time as Abraham Lincoln put it. Thank you for your analysis of my stance. I can now add arrogance to untruthfulness, unintelligence and stupidity to my list of attributes. For caring and empathetic people some of you can sure dish out the insults.
There you go again posting your opinions as if they were facts. I speak from personal experience when I say that strong emotions can be controlled. I was devastated when my husband died. He and my grandson who was 4 at the time adored one-another. Everytime I saw my grandson I was reminded of what he had lost (a wonderful grandfather) as well as what I had lost. I was so sad for him - but I managed to never cry in front of him.
I didn't cry in front of my kids either when they came to visit me. They were upset enough without me adding to their distress by sending them home worrying about me - as well as coping with the loss of their beloved dad.
As soon as I was on my own again - it was a different story.
That is how I behaved, but I would not be so arrogant as to tell people who handled things differently that unless they behaved like me - there was something wrong and unnatural about them.
There are no right or wrong ways to deal with grief. You don't seem to understand that.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 10:07:44 AM
Some of us do not fit in with that assumption, G. I would rather remove myself from the company of others before I cry, or embarrass myself, but that is how I am. Please correct me if I am wrong, but is this what you are saying.. You would be more likely to believe their account of what happened, if they were blubbering in full public view, even now after 8 years?
Just like you, Anna, I have never broken down in public in my life. Then, a few years ago, I learned that sometimes you can't control it because it catches you unawares. I was mortified because that upset others too, but it was beyond my control. I don't expect 'blubbering' now or at the beginning of the saga. In the beginning I would have expected loss of control, even if only a momentary crumble such as i experienced. I didn't see it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 10:08:32 AM
I grieved as privately as I could, Brietta, because I don't like public shows of emotion. What I discovered was that you can't always control it. All it takes is for someone to say something innocently and the emotions escape with no warning. You can regain control, but you can't help losing it. I truly find it impossible to understand how this couple could discuss the case and never show signs of losing control, unless they were drugged to the eyeballs. Some of my family had to resort to such help at times just to carry on, but the emotion still escaped.
I have NEVER cried in public whatever the circumstances. Members of my family did not show deep emotion in public and that is my upbringing. That does not mean that I do not feel things deeply but in traumatic circumstances my instinct and my practice is to stay in control.
I do not criticise people who show their feelings. I empathise. I do not criticise those who don't. I empathise. Everyone has different coping mechanisms and I try not to judge others by what I think I would do ... I think that is the mistake which is made when Madeleine's parents are judged and found wanting.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 10:16:49 AM
Just like you, Anna, I have never broken down in public in my life. Then, a few years ago, I learned that sometimes you can't control it because it catches you unawares. I was mortified because that upset others too, but it was beyond my control. I don't expect 'blubbering' now or at the beginning of the saga. In the beginning I would have expected loss of control, even if only a momentary crumble such as i experienced. I didn't see it.
They obviously have a different way of showing grief, shock or crumbling as you call it. Anger and loss of control, is what they appear too have experienced by the look of it. Gerry was on his knees howling like an animal and Kate was hitting out at anything, to the point of leaving herself bruised. And who was she blaming.......Herself. "We let her down Gerry" or words to that effect.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 10:20:01 AM
There you go again posting your opinions as if they were facts. I speak from personal experience when I say that strong emotions can be controlled. I was devastated when my husband died. He and my grandson who was 4 at the time adored one-another. Everytime I saw my grandson I was reminded of what he had lost (a wonderful grandfather) as well as what I had lost. I was so sad for him - but I managed to never cry in front of him.
I didn't cry in front of my kids either when they came to visit me. They were upset enough without me adding to their distress by sending them home worrying about me - as well as coping with the loss of their beloved dad.
As soon as I was on my own again - it was a different story.
That is how I behaved, but I would not be so arrogant as to tell people who handled things differently that unless they behaved like me - there was something wrong and unnatural about them.
There are no right or wrong ways to deal with grief. You don't seem to understand that.
I don't intend to be arrogant at all. I shared a little of my life because I was accused of being cold and uncaring. I learned the difference between losing someone who is older and has had a good shot at life and losing someone who had great promise which remains unfulfilled. My grief wasn't for myself, it was for a young person who never got to experience those things which older people have done. It's very painful when a life is cut short.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 10:23:23 AM
How true. The McCanns were convinced they knew better than the Portuguese Police. They thought their Private Investigators were more able to solve the case than the Portuguese Police. They thought they should be given all the evidence collected by the UK and Portuguese Police so they could carry out their own investigation. They thought is was acceptable to re-interview witnesses and harass them. They thought they could demonstrate the unreliability of the dogs. They thought they could control the media.
They didn't control it ... but you cannot deny they made a damn good job of using it ... they got their message out and they got the maximum publicity for their daughter. Well done them!
Unfortunately they were not alone in getting a message out.
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE DATE: 19:11:07
MAY 5th We would again like to appeal for any information, however small, that may lead to the safe return of Madeleine.
BILTON: First appeals are made, but what we didn't know at the time was that some Portuguese detectives are already telling Portuguese journalists that they don't believe the McCann story.
JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA
Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
Information started circulating from sources connected to the Portuguese police that the story was full of holes from the side of the McCanns and their friends.
Indeed within two days of Madeleine disappearing, this crime correspondent was filing this piece in the Portuguese Daily: Diario of the Noticias: "Headline: a badly told story."
We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped.
To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 10:25:19 AM
They didn't control it ... but you cannot deny they made a damn good job of using it ... they got their message out and they got the maximum publicity for their daughter. Well done them!
Unfortunately they were not alone in getting a message out.
RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE DATE: 19:11:07
MAY 5th We would again like to appeal for any information, however small, that may lead to the safe return of Madeleine.
BILTON: First appeals are made, but what we didn't know at the time was that some Portuguese detectives are already telling Portuguese journalists that they don't believe the McCann story.
JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA
Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
Information started circulating from sources connected to the Portuguese police that the story was full of holes from the side of the McCanns and their friends.
Indeed within two days of Madeleine disappearing, this crime correspondent was filing this piece in the Portuguese Daily: Diario of the Noticias: "Headline: a badly told story."
We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped.
To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
and the message has achieved what ?
DON'T LEAVE VERY YOUNG CHILDREN BY THEMSELVES WHILST GOING OUT DRINKING, perhaps ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 10:27:09 AM
They obviously have a different way of showing grief, shock or crumbling as you call it. Anger and loss of control, is what they appear too have experienced by the look of it. Gerry was on his knees howling like an animal and Kate was hitting out at anything, to the point of leaving herself bruised. And who was she blaming.......Herself. "We let her down Gerry" or words to that effect.
Which makes them seem very emotional people, not reticent and in control. Then it changed to the complete opposite. Iron discipline and control thereafter. I do agree with Kate Mccann, they did let Madeleine down with tragic results.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 10:31:29 AM
So you are saying that it is too late, so why do you keep telling us of their neglect, if nothing can now be achieved by doing so?
I will rephrase what I said.
They are unlikely to be prosecuted for clear neglect.
Too much egg on too many faces for that to happen.
The Portuguese should have charged them whilst they were still there after her disappearance, and of course they can't be charged in this country, but they feared extradition.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 10:41:28 AM
Which makes them seem very emotional people, not reticent and in control. Then it changed to the complete opposite. Iron discipline and control thereafter. I do agree with Kate Mccann, they did let Madeleine down with tragic results.
Like you G, I had a someone that I loved dearly, a brother in fact who died very young. I was angry and blamed everyone including myself. I was so angry that I broke a mirror when I threw an ornament which hit it, instead of the wall in my bedroom. Publicly, I had to be strong for my mother and younger siblings. I cried in private and I walked around the village for hours at a time, trying to make sense of it all. I guess that is why I am as I am now. I never saw my parents cry either.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 10:47:51 AM
Which makes them seem very emotional people, not reticent and in control. Then it changed to the complete opposite. Iron discipline and control thereafter. I do agree with Kate Mccann, they did let Madeleine down with tragic results.
Mr Amaral apparently thought the phrase had a medical connotation meaning Madeleine was dead ... perhaps that is something he should have checked out with someone who might have been able to assuage his prejudices on that.
Between that and wanting to see a priest ?? case closed.
I can just see why there has been a cultural misinterpretation here. I find it extraordinary that Brits still quote it as 'evidence' of guilt (check the gofundme comments) and justification for hounding Madeleine McCann's parents.
You would think they would know better, but apparently not.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 10:54:56 AM
They are unlikely to be prosecuted for clear neglect.
Too much egg on too many faces for that to happen.
The Portuguese should have charged them whilst they were still there after her disappearance, and of course they can't be charged in this country, but they feared extradition.
They weren't charged in Portugal, because they were found to be not guilty of abandonment.
How do you know that they feared extradition?
And back to the original question: What can be achieved now from reminding us on a daily basis, that they left their children to go and have dinner. Character assassination?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2015, 10:58:24 AM
If the mccanns were trying to cover up any crime it would have been easy to feign emotion...they haven't...another sign of their innocence
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2015, 11:19:01 AM
Like you G, I had a someone that I loved dearly, a brother in fact who died very young. I was angry and blamed everyone including myself. I was so angry that I broke a mirror when I threw an ornament which hit it, instead of the wall in my bedroom. Publicly, I had to be strong for my mother and younger siblings. I cried in private and I walked around the village for hours at a time, trying to make sense of it all. I guess that is why I am as I am now. I never saw my parents cry either.
How awful, please accept my sympathies. Things like that leave deep wounds, don't they? Yes, anger too. Anger at anyone and everyone, at God if you're a believer, at fate if not. Eventually you find an answer which enables you to carry on, but it takes a long time. The answer we found was that living might have been worse for him, strange as that sounds. I never actually cried, but filled up and had to stop speaking at times.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 11:21:35 AM
They weren't charged in Portugal, because they were found to be not guilty of abandonment.
How do you know that they feared extradition?
And back to the original question: What can be achieved now from reminding us on a daily basis, that they left their children to go and have dinner. Character assassination?
Don't you know Anna, they hired a lawyer whose expertise in extradition proceeding is well known, and has been mentioned on this forum numerous times. &%+((£
Which is one aspect I have noted among mccann supporters
Even though information has been supplied before, they still want cites.
My memory is excellent by the way.
Michael Caplan. ?{)(**
As to character assassination, they did that all by themselves.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 11:28:56 AM
Don't you know Anna, they hired a lawyer whose expertise in extradition proceeding is well known, and has been mentioned on this forum numerous times. &%+((£
Which is one aspect I have noted among mccann supporters
Even though information has been supplied before, they still want cites.
My memory is excellent by the way.
Michael Caplan. ?{)(**
As to character assassination, they did that all by themselves.
Because they hired this lawyer does not necessarily mean that they feared extradition, does it? To be honest, I must admit that it would scare me too.
If you believe they have assassinated their own character, all by themselves, then I am sure they don't need the intervention of others.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 11:37:59 AM
How awful, please accept my sympathies. Things like that leave deep wounds, don't they? Yes, anger too. Anger at anyone and everyone, at God if you're a believer, at fate if not. Eventually you find an answer which enables you to carry on, but it takes a long time. The answer we found was that living might have been worse for him, strange as that sounds. I never actually cried, but filled up and had to stop speaking at times.
My sympathies to you too, G. It is hard to lose a loved one, no matter what the circumstances. I get the lump in my throat thing too at times, but I can soon shrug it off, if in company. You can cry all night without causing embarrassment, but the red piggy eyes gives you away in the morning.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 11:53:47 AM
oh dear ...i went on that link and got this...........When did I first doubt Madeleine McCann's parents? ... @)(++(*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70qJA0c9hQU
I am not quite sure what you think you are doing here. You cannot have failed to notice that link to Isabelle McFadden is not the link I posted which is quite clearly DCI Redwood stating that neither the parents nor their friends are suspects https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA
Why on earth do you feel the need for such duplicity? You really fail your cause if all you have to back it up are underhand tactics and gives a fair idea of what the case built assiduously against Madeleine McCann's parents largely consists of.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: ferryman on June 23, 2015, 01:40:13 PM
oh.....look well if thats what the british police..... end up doing....... &%54%
There has been a lot of discussion on this in another thread, but sorry to say that, I am unsure of which one it is right now.
Just a little here…………………………….
"I know we are absolutely innocent," Gerry McCann said in an Aug. 10 interview. "I would ask people to continue to believe in us." Neither British nor Portuguese police have commented on the specific allegations in the press, though Portuguese Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa did announce on Aug. 11 that "the McCanns are not suspects in the case ... they are victims."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id208.html And here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6942198.stm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 03:32:47 PM
Just press the "quote" button on my earlier post and you will see how I have done it.
1. Read the word in square brackets that I have typed before the Youtube title.
Type that in front of your youtube title
2. Do the same with the word that I have typed after the Youtube title {same word but with a slash (/) in front of it. Again in square brackets.
Type that after the youtube title
Try it with this youtube title. Copy and paste it in first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA
That generally works, so long as there isn't a security block on. Pathfinder told me about this. Thanks again Pfinder.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
However with the youtube title that you used, a security block has been put on it Can you see the difference between these two youtube titles below?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA <<< this has an extra "s" after http. That is the security block that was on your title .... and must be removed
So if you see https, just remove the "s" and make it http, then it should work
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 04:00:27 PM
Just press the "quote" button on my earlier post and you will see how I have done it.
1. Read the word in square brackets that I have typed before the Youtube title.
Type that in front of your youtube title
2. Do the same with the word that I have typed after the Youtube title {same word but with a slash (/) in front of it. Again in square brackets.
Type that after the youtube title
Try it with this youtube title. Copy and paste it in first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA
That generally works, so long as there isn't a security block on. Pathfinder told me about this. Thanks again Pfinder.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
However with the youtube title that you used, a security block has been put on it Can you see the difference between these two youtube titles below?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA <<< this has an extra "s" after http. That is the security block that was on your title .... and must be removed
So if you see https, just remove the "s" and make it http, then it should work
Thanks for that, Sadie, I'll try that next time I want to post a video.
Thanks to you too PF ... just proof that you do sometimes have your uses.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 04:11:44 PM
Like you G, I had a someone that I loved dearly, a brother in fact who died very young. I was angry and blamed everyone including myself. I was so angry that I broke a mirror when I threw an ornament which hit it, instead of the wall in my bedroom. Publicly, I had to be strong for my mother and younger siblings. I cried in private and I walked around the village for hours at a time, trying to make sense of it all. I guess that is why I am as I am now. I never saw my parents cry either.
Like you, Anna, I never cried either, neither publicly nor privately.
My shock was in finding out that my little boy had a brain tumour and was going to die. I cried myself out, privately, during the period of many months, that he went thru it .. and felt relief for him when he was finally out of his pain.
Such a huge loss tho. I cannot describe the void within me. After his death I never cried again for about 10 years, not even when my much loved Mum and Dad died.
Like you, I had to be strong for our daughter and our elderly parents .. and for my hubby .... even tho I was bleeding inside from the horror and loss.
Having been fairly religeous, my hubby could not believe that our lovely, previously lively, young son might die. He had never done anything wrong and was too young. He would not accept what the brain specialist told us, so was not prepared, as I tried to be.
Now I know that the loss of Madeleine was different, but at least they have the hope that Madeleine is still alive. I am pretty sure that she is ... or was 3 years ago.
Everybody re-acts differently ... and you cant judge someone by what you see. Try compassion. Try empathy. You would feel better for doing that, I think.
If Madeleine is found alive, you are going to feel such sh......... I think you get my meaning.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 04:28:02 PM
Thanks for that, Sadie, I'll try that next time I want to post a video.
Thanks to you too PF ... just proof that you do sometimes have your uses.
I know that like me, you tend to be a technophobe.
Do try it now, and if you succeeed then practice it, so you dont forget it.
BTW, the square brackets before something are a computer command to do something. The square brackets with a slash at the back end are the computer command to include what is inside the two lots of brackets.
A very nice ant! on my first forum, called "La Vie En Rose" told me that.
http://youtu.be/kFzViYkZAz4
For you La Vie En Rose as a little thank you
With thanks also to the amazing Edith Piaf
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Carana on June 23, 2015, 04:31:52 PM
You can also simply highlight the YouTube link and click the YT button (3rd from the right). Or click the button, then c&p the link within the two bits of code.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 05:30:25 PM
You can also simply highlight the YouTube link and click the YT button (3rd from the right). Or click the button, then c&p the link within the two bits of code.
Yep, thanks Carana, that is a better way probably
but if it is a https link then the "s" from the Https must be removed first to leave just http. [minus the "s"]
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Pathfinder that video was before they were made arquida and still not considered suspects
The day they received arquido status…..
Keep on believing the myths Anna. That interview date is 10th August.
Kate hasn't been treated like a suspect in her own words but only 2 days prior she is accused of hiding her daughter's dead body. Gimme a break from McCanns fantasyland!
Maybe the interview on 8 August, when they’d clearly tried to get me to confess, had been their best shot at getting us to crack and, since that hadn’t worked, they would now change tack? (Madeleine)
WED 8 AUG
If we’d wondered about the change of venue for our regular informal meeting, the reason for it soon became clear: this wasn’t our regular informal meeting. We were taken to an upstairs room at the police station where we were greeted by Luís Neves and Guilhermino Encarnação. Our interpreter this time was a police officer, not Proconsul Angela Morado, as was usually the case. The whole demeanour of Neves and Encarnação was different. They looked serious and cold. There had been a ‘shift’ in the investigation, they said. They had always been optimistic that Madeleine was alive, but now things had changed. Almost instantaneously I could feel my breathing pattern altering and that familiar constriction in my throat. Gerry asked if any evidence had come to light to suggest that Madeleine was dead but they wouldn’t reply. There was a lot of frowning going on which, combined with the language barrier, made it less obvious that they weren’t answering us. Gerry was then asked to leave the room. Now the sirens in my head were deafening. I was on my own and afraid. Please God, let my Madeleine be OK. Tell us about that night, they said. Tell us everything that happened after the children went to bed. I gave them every detail I could remember, as I had before, but this time they responded by just staring at me and shaking their heads. I was reeling with confusion, disbelief and panic. What the hell was going on? Evidently not satisfied with my account, they pressed me. Was there anything else I wanted to add? Anything else unusual that had occurred that night? Of course there wasn’t. If there had been I would have told them on 3 May. I’d recounted absolutely everything and anything – more than they wanted or needed to know, probably, just in case some triviality I recalled might be significant. How could they think I would hold something back that might help my daughter? Why were they asking me this? Why? Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. Didn’t fit? What did they know? I was sobbing now, well past the stage of silent tears and stifled sniffs. I began to wail hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps. Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm. Had I ever considered that she may be dead? Yes, of course. Early on that was all I thought, all the time: that some paedophile had grabbed her, abused her and later killed her. Then I’d begun to wonder if she was being held by pornographers, I told them, or had been taken for someone who wanted a child. I was becoming more and more distressed and more and more scared. I wanted Gerry. Still they pushed me. They proposed that when I’d put Madeleine to bed that night, it wasn’t actually the last time I’d seen her. But it was. It was! I felt I was being bullied, and I suppose I was. I assume these tactics were deliberate: knock her off balance by telling her that her daughter is dead and get her to confess. Because I was in no doubt now that they were trying to make me say I’d killed Madeleine or knew what had happened to her. I might be naive but I’m not stupid. On and on it went. They tried to convince me I’d had a blackout – a ‘loss of memory episode’, I think they called it. My denials, answers and pleas fell on deaf ears. This was their theory and they wanted to shoehorn me into it, end of story. At last they seemed to decide that the interview was over. They told me I could ring them any time, day or night, to give them the information they were waiting for. I was allowed to spend a couple of minutes with Gerry, but I don’t think he was able to get much sense out of me. Then it was his turn to be interrogated. He managed to remain a little calmer than I had but he was still visibly upset and shaken afterwards. He gave the police his account of the events of 3 May and the reasons why he didn’t believe Madeleine had been killed in the apartment. Through his tears he pleaded with the two men: ‘Do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? We’re her parents. You have to tell us.’ ‘It’s coming,’ Neves told him. ‘It’s coming!’ Outside the room, I was praying – begging prayers. I was beginning to come unstuck. But if I thought the police had finished with me, I was mistaken. Before long I was ordered back into the room to join Gerry for round three. Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response.’ In a slightly threatening manner, Luís asked why I wasn’t looking him straight in the eye. There was no reason, other than that I was incapable of looking at anyone properly: my own eyes were so swollen and sore that I was struggling to keep them from closing completely. Finally, Gerry tried to establish when – and if – we would be having another meeting with them. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ The message behind this rather Delphic statement was clear: there would be no more informal meetings. (Madeleine)
THURSDAY AUGUST 9, 2007
By: CECÍLIA PIRES
GERRY AND Kate McCann are keeping in regular contact with the Polícia Judiciária to find out about any developments from the latest investigations, although some newspapers have been reporting this week that the couple were called in by the PJ for new inquiries.
Some Portuguese newspapers reported this morning (Thursday) that the couple was questioned again yesterday (Wed) afternoon “as police wanted to confirm what had happened between 6pm and 9pm of May 3”, the day Madeleine McCann disappeared from her room in a holiday apartment at Praia da Luz
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pegasus on June 23, 2015, 06:30:31 PM
"on my own". Yes the proper procedure for a police interview is to not allow another witness to sit in.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on June 23, 2015, 06:41:32 PM
How true. The McCanns were convinced they knew better than the Portuguese Police. They thought their Private Investigators were more able to solve the case than the Portuguese Police. They thought they should be given all the evidence collected by the UK and Portuguese Police so they could carry out their own investigation. They thought is was acceptable to re-interview witnesses and harass them. They thought they could demonstrate the unreliability of the dogs. They thought they could control the media.
I would say it was desperation rather than arrogance that led the McCanns to hire private detectives. I know you're not able to empathise with the McCanns but put yourself in the shoes of someone relying on the police to find a loved one you believe taken by a stranger only to discover to your horror that the police believe you are responsible for that loved one's disappearance and that furthermore you hid your loved one's body somewhere. Knowing this, and having the funds to engage private detectives to follow leads the police are clearly not following do you do nothing and simply hope to persuade the police of your innocence somehow? Or do you put those funds to use trying to find your loved one?
When you say the McCanns thought they could harass people and control the media those are ill-founded accusations. They did what they could to find their child - your arrogance is in assuming you know the McCanns behaved oddly when those trained to be around people in similar circumstances found their behaviour perfectly in keeping with the situation in which they found themselves.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 07:09:03 PM
Keep on believing the myths Anna. That interview date is 10th August.
Kate hasn't been treated like a suspect in her own words but only 2 days prior she is accused of hiding her daughter's dead body. Gimme a break from McCanns fantasyland!
Maybe the interview on 8 August, when they’d clearly tried to get me to confess, had been their best shot at getting us to crack and, since that hadn’t worked, they would now change tack? (Madeleine)
WED 8 AUG
If we’d wondered about the change of venue for our regular informal meeting, the reason for it soon became clear: this wasn’t our regular informal meeting. We were taken to an upstairs room at the police station where we were greeted by Luís Neves and Guilhermino Encarnação. Our interpreter this time was a police officer, not Proconsul Angela Morado, as was usually the case. The whole demeanour of Neves and Encarnação was different. They looked serious and cold. There had been a ‘shift’ in the investigation, they said. They had always been optimistic that Madeleine was alive, but now things had changed. Almost instantaneously I could feel my breathing pattern altering and that familiar constriction in my throat. Gerry asked if any evidence had come to light to suggest that Madeleine was dead but they wouldn’t reply. There was a lot of frowning going on which, combined with the language barrier, made it less obvious that they weren’t answering us. Gerry was then asked to leave the room. Now the sirens in my head were deafening. I was on my own and afraid. Please God, let my Madeleine be OK. Tell us about that night, they said. Tell us everything that happened after the children went to bed. I gave them every detail I could remember, as I had before, but this time they responded by just staring at me and shaking their heads. I was reeling with confusion, disbelief and panic. What the hell was going on? Evidently not satisfied with my account, they pressed me. Was there anything else I wanted to add? Anything else unusual that had occurred that night? Of course there wasn’t. If there had been I would have told them on 3 May. I’d recounted absolutely everything and anything – more than they wanted or needed to know, probably, just in case some triviality I recalled might be significant. How could they think I would hold something back that might help my daughter? Why were they asking me this? Why? Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. Didn’t fit? What did they know? I was sobbing now, well past the stage of silent tears and stifled sniffs. I began to wail hysterically, drawing breath in desperate gasps. Why did I think Madeleine had been alive when she was taken from the apartment? they persisted. I explained between sobs that there had been nothing to suggest otherwise; no indication that she might have come to harm. Had I ever considered that she may be dead? Yes, of course. Early on that was all I thought, all the time: that some paedophile had grabbed her, abused her and later killed her. Then I’d begun to wonder if she was being held by pornographers, I told them, or had been taken for someone who wanted a child. I was becoming more and more distressed and more and more scared. I wanted Gerry. Still they pushed me. They proposed that when I’d put Madeleine to bed that night, it wasn’t actually the last time I’d seen her. But it was. It was! I felt I was being bullied, and I suppose I was. I assume these tactics were deliberate: knock her off balance by telling her that her daughter is dead and get her to confess. Because I was in no doubt now that they were trying to make me say I’d killed Madeleine or knew what had happened to her. I might be naive but I’m not stupid. On and on it went. They tried to convince me I’d had a blackout – a ‘loss of memory episode’, I think they called it. My denials, answers and pleas fell on deaf ears. This was their theory and they wanted to shoehorn me into it, end of story. At last they seemed to decide that the interview was over. They told me I could ring them any time, day or night, to give them the information they were waiting for. I was allowed to spend a couple of minutes with Gerry, but I don’t think he was able to get much sense out of me. Then it was his turn to be interrogated. He managed to remain a little calmer than I had but he was still visibly upset and shaken afterwards. He gave the police his account of the events of 3 May and the reasons why he didn’t believe Madeleine had been killed in the apartment. Through his tears he pleaded with the two men: ‘Do you have evidence that Madeleine is dead? We’re her parents. You have to tell us.’ ‘It’s coming,’ Neves told him. ‘It’s coming!’ Outside the room, I was praying – begging prayers. I was beginning to come unstuck. But if I thought the police had finished with me, I was mistaken. Before long I was ordered back into the room to join Gerry for round three. Once again Gerry wanted to know if the case had now become a murder inquiry. The answer was indirect: ‘You can probably guess that from our lack of response.’ In a slightly threatening manner, Luís asked why I wasn’t looking him straight in the eye. There was no reason, other than that I was incapable of looking at anyone properly: my own eyes were so swollen and sore that I was struggling to keep them from closing completely. Finally, Gerry tried to establish when – and if – we would be having another meeting with them. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ The message behind this rather Delphic statement was clear: there would be no more informal meetings. (Madeleine)
THURSDAY AUGUST 9, 2007
By: CECÍLIA PIRES
GERRY AND Kate McCann are keeping in regular contact with the Polícia Judiciária to find out about any developments from the latest investigations, although some newspapers have been reporting this week that the couple were called in by the PJ for new inquiries.
Some Portuguese newspapers reported this morning (Thursday) that the couple was questioned again yesterday (Wed) afternoon “as police wanted to confirm what had happened between 6pm and 9pm of May 3”, the day Madeleine McCann disappeared from her room in a holiday apartment at Praia da Luz
Yep. your interview video was 8th aug 2007 when they were not considered suspects " Neither British nor Portuguese police have commented on the specific allegations in the press, though Portuguese Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa did announce on Aug. 11 that "the McCanns are not suspects in the case ... they are victims."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id208.html And here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6942198.stm
My video 8/9/07 after being made arquido https://youtu.be/VGsbPZtUue4 Sky News clip of Gerry McCann on 8/9/07 leaving the police station in Portugal after being declared an arguido. The second half shows Kate McCann as she left the same police station after being declared an arguido earlier that day.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 23, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
Like you, Anna, I never cried either, neither publicly nor privately.
My shock was in finding out that my little boy had a brain tumour and was going to die. I cried myself out, privately, during the period of many months, that he went thru it .. and felt relief for him when he was finally out of his pain.
Such a huge loss tho. I cannot describe the void within me. After his death I never cried again for about 10 years, not even when my much loved Mum and Dad died.
Like you, I had to be strong for our daughter and our elderly parents .. and for my hubby .... even tho I was bleeding inside from the horror and loss.
Having been fairly religeous, my hubby could not believe that our lovely, previously lively, young son might die. He had never done anything wrong and was too young. He would not accept what the brain specialist told us, so was not prepared, as I tried to be.
Now I know that the loss of Madeleine was different, but at least they have the hope that Madeleine is still alive. I am pretty sure that she is ... or was 3 years ago.
Everybody re-acts differently ... and you cant judge someone by what you see. Try compassion. Try empathy. You would feel better for doing that, I think.
If Madeleine is found alive, you are going to feel such sh......... I think you get my meaning.
I can't begin to imagine the pain that must have caused you Sadie. And is probably still causing you. 8(8-))
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pegasus on June 23, 2015, 08:01:50 PM
The book excerpt tells us that before 8th Aug the regular informal meetings between PJ and parents were at a UK govt property translated by a UK govt employee. The PJ were treating the parents with exceptional consideration before 8th Aug.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 23, 2015, 08:31:47 PM
Yep. your interview video was 8th aug 2007 when they were not considered suspects " Neither British nor Portuguese police have commented on the specific allegations in the press, though Portuguese Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa did announce on Aug. 11 that "the McCanns are not suspects in the case ... they are victims."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id208.html And here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6942198.stm
My video 8/9/07 after being made arquido https://youtu.be/VGsbPZtUue4 Sky News clip of Gerry McCann on 8/9/07 leaving the police station in Portugal after being declared an arguido. The second half shows Kate McCann as she left the same police station after being declared an arguido earlier that day.
They WERE considered suspects at the time, at the end of the dog searches, just not officially made such until a few weeks later
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 08:56:39 PM
I can't begin to imagine the pain that must have caused you Sadie. And is probably still causing you. 8(8-))
Thanks Anna. You too, by the sound of things.
It is 40 years ago now and time does help.
I, and maybe you(?) can totally understand Kates anguish and her attempts to appear calm. She had to keep it from the twins. She had to be strong for Gerry and her parents.
She was told that if she appeared upset, then the perp might "get off on it". Sorry to be so crude, but I dont know a better way of putting it.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2015, 08:59:05 PM
I, and maybe you(?) can totally understand Kates anguish and her attempts to appear calm. She had to keep it from the twins. She had to be strong for Gerry and her parents.
She was told that if she appeared upset, then the perp might "get off on it". Sorry to be so crude, but I dont know a better way of putting it.
No 'perp' has been established.
Pure speculation.
Evidence needed and not pointers.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 09:21:35 PM
Yep. your interview video was 8th aug 2007 when they were not considered suspects " Neither British nor Portuguese police have commented on the specific allegations in the press, though Portuguese Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa did announce on Aug. 11 that "the McCanns are not suspects in the case ... they are victims."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id208.html And here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6942198.stm
My video 8/9/07 after being made arquido https://youtu.be/VGsbPZtUue4 Sky News clip of Gerry McCann on 8/9/07 leaving the police station in Portugal after being declared an arguido. The second half shows Kate McCann as she left the same police station after being declared an arguido earlier that day.
What are you on about? The video is 10th August. They were accused 2 days before on the 8th. Not suspects only in McCann fantasyland.
"Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ " (8 AUG)
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 11:19:26 PM
What are you on about? The video is 10th August. They were accused 2 days before on the 8th. Not suspects only in McCann fantasyland.
"Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ " (8 AUG)
Sorry PFinder but you owe Anna an apology, according to the Daily Telegraph they were made arguidos a month after the date you stated in August.
Investigators named the McCanns, both 39, as arguidos on September 7 after allegedly finding microscopic traces of blood in their holiday apartment and "bodily fluids" they thought could have belonged to Madeleine in the boot of their hire car.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2015, 11:20:36 PM
Investigators named the McCanns, both 39, as arguidos on September 7 after allegedly finding microscopic traces of blood in their holiday apartment and "bodily fluids" they thought could have belonged to Madeleine in the boot of their hire car.
So what? That means nothing. They knew the police had them as suspects on 8 August because they tried to get them to confess. The dogs had done their investigation work before they were accused on the 8th.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: sadie on June 23, 2015, 11:28:24 PM
they were made arguidos in Sept 07 but were suspects straight after the dog inspections ....have IQs dropped sharply recently, I already posted this fact
Pfinder said :
"What are you on about? The video is 10th August. They were accused 2 days before on the 8th. Not suspects only in McCann fantasyland."
They were not made arguidos until September 7th or 8th.
You both got it wrong . Sorry.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on June 23, 2015, 11:33:33 PM
"What are you on about? The video is 10th August. They were accused 2 days before on the 8th. Not suspects only in McCann fantasyland."
They were not made arguidos until September 7th or 8th.
You both got it wrong . Sorry.
They were SUSPECTED straight after the dog findings, even though not made official suspects until September, bad on the police, Brit police commentators were right, they left it too late to rule them out
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2015, 11:36:58 PM
"What are you on about? The video is 10th August. They were accused 2 days before on the 8th. Not suspects only in McCann fantasyland."
They were not made arguidos until September 7th or 8th.
You both got it wrong . Sorry.
I haven't been talking about arguido status. They were accused on the 8th August and tried to get them to confess. Being told they think they did it and we don't believe your story is a lot more serious than being made arguidos! Kate lied on the 10th when she said she hasn't been made to feel like a suspect. That's a blatant lie! They only made them arguidos later because they wanted to do further questioning and get test results before they left Portugal. The game continues.............
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2015, 11:51:30 PM
I haven't been talking about arguido status. They were accused on the 8th August and tried to get them to confess. Being told they think they did it and we don't believe your story is a lot more serious than being made arguidos! Kate lied on the 10th when she said she hasn't been made to feel like a suspect. That's a blatant lie! They only made them arguidos later because they wanted to do further questioning and get test results before they left Portugal. The game continues.............
The game indeed continues with a totally new set of players, some of whom may even be able to shed some light on what happened to Madeleine McCann ... even if they do not know her present whereabouts.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on June 24, 2015, 06:15:48 AM
All posts containing insults or abuse will be removed in their entirety.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Anna on June 24, 2015, 03:24:29 PM
What are you on about? The video is 10th August. They were accused 2 days before on the 8th. Not suspects only in McCann fantasyland.
"Neves stated bluntly that they didn’t believe my version of events. It ‘didn’t fit’ with what they knew. ‘The next time we meet it will be across the table.’ " (8 AUG)
We appear to have got our wires crossed here, Pathfinder, so I will try and make it clearer……………….
1. The dogs finished their searches on 7th of august . http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
2. Gerry and kate were interviewed by police, on the 8th of august 2007 according to you and perhaps Kate’s book. There is no record of that interview or meeting that I can find . do you have a link? or was it all done hushy hushy?
3. Portuguese Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa did announce on Aug. 11 2007 that "the McCanns are not suspects in the case ... they are victims." http://www.mccannfiles.com/id208.html And here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6942198.stm
If Kate and Gerry were grilled on the 8th aug as suspects, do you believe OS was lying?
4 .The McCanns were interviewed on 10th aug .When asked, they replied that they did not feel that they were being treated as suspects…….
What else would you expect them to say, when they were held back by secrecy laws?
5. Despite the words of Olegario Sousa, They were made arquidos just 4 weeks later on 9th sep 2007.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 24, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
Day 97 - 08/08/2007
At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary.
Chief Insp Olegario Sousa, a Portuguese police spokesman, said last night: "The family are not suspects. This is the official position." TELEGRAPH: 09 AUGUST 2007
They are suspects whatever the official position is.
At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary.
Chief Insp Olegario Sousa, a Portuguese police spokesman, said last night: "The family are not suspects. This is the official position." TELEGRAPH: 09 AUGUST 2007
They are suspects whatever the official position is.
On no account should anyone suggest that they might be innocent, of dastardly and heinous crimes against their loved and cherished daughter ....
Dastardly and heinous? That's a bit harsh as even the PJ suggested only that MM had a fatal accident.
How do you love and cherish a child? Take her on holiday and see her only at mealtimes? Leave her alone with her siblings every night while you go out with your friends? That's not how most people do it, despite claims to the contrary.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2015, 10:41:06 AM
On no account should anyone suggest that they might be innocent, of dastardly and heinous crimes against their loved and cherished daughter ....
How many people on here have accused the parents of "dastardly and heinous crimes against their loved and cherished daughter ...." ? Are you posting on the right forum? Or are you trying to create a link/association to those who have an unhealthy obsession, with nasty intentions towards the family of Maddie?
The parents behaviour suggests differently. " Mummy where were you.... " Child asks parents where they were when children woke up crying...they do not reply to the child? seriously? OK lol. So after that heart churning concern from a 3 year old- they ignore her and do it again... very loving very cherishing behaviour?
Hmm No!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on August 29, 2015, 12:39:22 PM
Dastardly and heinous? That's a bit harsh as even the PJ suggested only that MM had a fatal accident.
How do you love and cherish a child? Take her on holiday and see her only at mealtimes? Leave her alone with her siblings every night while you go out with your friends? That's not how most people do it, despite claims to the contrary.
If that was the case there would be no Kiddies clubs, creches or listening services in any holiday resort. They are there because there is a demand for them by a very large number of PARENTS - who also love and cherish their children.
What about the folk who leave their children alone every night and just take a baby alarm out with them - and don't make any physical checks at all? And all the thousands of other parents who have left their children asleep but made regular checks on them?
They do it (and some still do) because they think it's safe - in the same way the McCanns thought it was safe.
Why do sceptics never even acknowledge the existence of these hundreds of thousands of other parents? Let alone criticise them.
IMO the constant singling out of the McCanns as if they were the ONLY people in the world to have ever left their children asleep and gone to dinner is totally irrational - and so is the inference that signing children up for a creche/ Kiddies club is something that only parents who did not love and cherish their children would do. And particularly irrational IMO is the idea that it is ONLY the McCanns who must be villified because of their childcare arrangements. That mindset makes no sense to me.
The only difference between the McCanns and those other parents is that none of their children were targetted by an abductor. They were the lucky ones - as I am certain many of them would acknowledge.
There for the Grace of God.............etc
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2015, 01:07:47 PM
If that was the case there would be no Kiddies clubs, creches or listening services in any holiday resort. They are there because there is a demand for them by a very large number of PARENTS - who also love and cherish their children.
What about the folk who leave their children alone every night and just take a baby alarm out with them - and don't make any physical checks at all? And all the thousands of other parents who have left their children asleep but made regular checks on them?
They do it (and some still do) because they think it's safe - in the same way the McCanns thought it was safe.
Why do sceptics never even acknowledge the existence of these hundreds of thousands of other parents? Let alone criticise them.
IMO the constant singling out of the McCanns as if they were the ONLY people in the world to have ever left their children asleep and gone to dinner is totally irrational - and so is the inference that signing children up for a creche/ Kiddies club is something that only parents who did not love and cherish their children would do. And particularly irrational IMO is the idea that it is ONLY the McCanns who must be villified because of their childcare arrangements. That mindset makes no sense to me.
The only difference between the McCanns and those other parents is that none of their children were targetted by an abductor. They were the lucky ones - as I am certain many of them would acknowledge.
There for the Grace of God.............etc
Yes, what about those parents doing that? what should be done if their child is 'abducted'? well, nothng according to you and people of your ilk. Just one of those things huh? part of growing up huh? bit of bad luck eh?
anyway... two wrongs do not make a right!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 01:18:01 PM
Dastardly and heinous? That's a bit harsh as even the PJ suggested only that MM had a fatal accident.
How do you love and cherish a child? Take her on holiday and see her only at mealtimes? Leave her alone with her siblings every night while you go out with your friends? That's not how most people do it, despite claims to the contrary.
So you don't think covering up the death of your child, sticking her body in a bin or down a hole, and then launching a worldwide search for her and appealing for funds to do so would be classed as dastardly or heinous?
Interesting.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on August 29, 2015, 01:20:24 PM
Yes, what about those parents doing that? what should be done if their child is 'abducted'? well, nothng according to you and people of your ilk. Just one of those things huh? part of growing up huh? bit of bad luck eh?
anyway... two wrongs do not make a right!
Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. IMO your post bears no relation to anything in my post. Care to elucidate?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2015, 01:22:00 PM
So you don't think covering up the death of your child, sticking her body in a bin or down a hole, and then launching a worldwide search for her and appealing for funds to do so would be classed as dastardly or heinous?
Interesting.
That was said on this site? by a poster? could I have a link to that please.
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on August 29, 2015, 01:30:32 PM
Dastardly and heinous? That's a bit harsh as even the PJ suggested only that MM had a fatal accident.
How do you love and cherish a child? Take her on holiday and see her only at mealtimes? Leave her alone with her siblings every night while you go out with your friends? That's not how most people do it, despite claims to the contrary.
I wouldn't put my children in a crèche, but I wouldn't call people who do unloving to their children either.
I have friends who put their children in a kids club when I went on holiday with them, actually the children wanted to join in with the other children, who were putting on shows where we were staying.
The McCann's had had one holiday that year already where they had gone to Ireland and by the look of it Madeleine and the twins had had a lovely time there, they went to the beach and paddled in the sea.
So their trip to Portugal could have been a holiday where the parents would get a bit of 'me time' indeed they were having tennis lessons. I don't see anything wrong with that, the parents worked hard they deserved some me time I think.
The children were not unhappy going to the crèche, believe you me if any of my children didn't want to go somewhere you would hear all about it. I haven't read anything to suggest the children cried when they were taken there, as a matter of fact Kate says herself that Madeleine asked to go back to the crèche after their trip to the beach.
The kids clubs by the sound of it did a lot of activities with the children to keep the happy and occupied. Children love other children and they love playing with other children, they went to the beach and even went on a boat, would they have gone on a boat if they hadn't gone to the crèche?
Some parents leave their children with grandparents to go off for a break by themselves is that being unloving and not cherishing your children?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2015, 02:37:44 PM
I wouldn't put my children in a crèche, but I wouldn't call people who do unloving to their children either.
I have friends who put their children in a kids club when I went on holiday with them, actually the children wanted to join in with the other children, who were putting on shows where we were staying.
The McCann's had had one holiday that year already where they had gone to Ireland and by the look of it Madeleine and the twins had had a lovely time there, they went to the beach and paddled in the sea.
So their trip to Portugal could have been a holiday where the parents would get a bit of 'me time' indeed they were having tennis lessons. I don't see anything wrong with that, the parents worked hard they deserved some me time I think.
The children were not unhappy going to the crèche, believe you me if any of my children didn't want to go somewhere you would hear all about it. I haven't read anything to suggest the children cried when they were taken there, as a matter of fact Kate says herself that Madeleine asked to go back to the crèche after their trip to the beach.
The kids clubs by the sound of it did a lot of activities with the children to keep the happy and occupied. Children love other children and they love playing with other children, they went to the beach and even went on a boat, would they have gone on a boat if they hadn't gone to the crèche?
Some parents leave their children with grandparents to go off for a break by themselves is that being unloving and not cherishing your children?
If children are used to being put into creches so parents can work/shop/whatever they will know that objecting gets them nowhere. I find it sad that parents take their children abroad and put them in a creche. No exploring the local culture, no visiting local attractions, no fun with Mum and Dad. They might as well be with relatives back home who would give them some attention. The twins had a much better time when their aunt arrived and kept them out of the creche in the afternoons so they could go on outings to the zoo. etc. She seemed to have the same outlook on childcare as I do.
In the afternoons we would go out with the children, I didnt think it was a good idea for them to be in the creche for the whole day, we tried to maintain a routine in order to give them a sense of normality. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 02:38:37 PM
That was said on this site? by a poster? could I have a link to that please.
Thank you in advance.
@)(++(* You're not allowed to SAY it, but you are allowed to INFER it and to use euphemisms to skirt around it. Are you actually of the belief that no one on here believes the parents covered up the child's death?!
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 02:43:33 PM
If children are used to being put into creches so parents can work/shop/whatever they will know that objecting gets them nowhere. I find it sad that parents take their children abroad and put them in a creche. No exploring the local culture, no visiting local attractions, no fun with Mum and Dad. They might as well be with relatives back home who would give them some attention. The twins had a much better time when their aunt arrived and kept them out of the creche in the afternoons so they could go on outings to the zoo. etc. She seemed to have the same outlook on childcare as I do.
In the afternoons we would go out with the children, I didnt think it was a good idea for them to be in the creche for the whole day, we tried to maintain a routine in order to give them a sense of normality. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
May I ask what you personally gain from regularly criticising the McCanns' parenting skills and comparing them unfavourably to your own?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2015, 02:54:48 PM
May I ask what you personally gain from regularly criticising the McCanns' parenting skills and comparing them unfavourably to your own?
Why would I personally gain, and why would I want to gain? I mention their (lack of) parenting skills because others constantly refer to them as loving parents who cherished their adored children. Funny way of showing it imo. Old sayings spring to mind; 'handsome is as handsome does'or 'actions speak louder than words'.
“I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of their thoughts.” ― John Locke
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 02:58:21 PM
Why would I personally gain, and why would I want to gain? I mention their (lack of) parenting skills because others constantly refer to them as loving parents who cherished their adored children. Funny way of showing it imo. Old sayings spring to mind; 'handsome is as handsome does'or 'actions speak louder than words'.
“I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of their thoughts.” ― John Locke
making things uo again to try and justify your nastiness
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2015, 02:58:26 PM
If children are used to being put into creches so parents can work/shop/whatever they will know that objecting gets them nowhere. I find it sad that parents take their children abroad and put them in a creche. No exploring the local culture, no visiting local attractions, no fun with Mum and Dad. They might as well be with relatives back home who would give them some attention. The twins had a much better time when their aunt arrived and kept them out of the creche in the afternoons so they could go on outings to the zoo. etc. She seemed to have the same outlook on childcare as I do.
In the afternoons we would go out with the children, I didnt think it was a good idea for them to be in the creche for the whole day, we tried to maintain a routine in order to give them a sense of normality. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
There is all the difference in the world in children enjoying new adventures and friends during supervised play for a few days while on a family holiday ... and taking them on outings which mirrored their normal home lives in the weeks and months of their enforced stay in Portugal.
Extraordinary that you fail to recognise that.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on August 29, 2015, 03:01:03 PM
Why would I personally gain, and why would I want to gain? I mention their (lack of) parenting skills because others constantly refer to them as loving parents who cherished their adored children. Funny way of showing it imo. Old sayings spring to mind; 'handsome is as handsome does'or 'actions speak louder than words'.
“I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of their thoughts.” ― John Locke
I have always known that I was a less than perfect parent. I don't have any terrible hang ups about this.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 03:04:52 PM
Why would I personally gain, and why would I want to gain? I mention their (lack of) parenting skills because others constantly refer to them as loving parents who cherished their adored children. Funny way of showing it imo. Old sayings spring to mind; 'handsome is as handsome does'or 'actions speak louder than words'.
“I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of their thoughts.” ― John Locke
So is it your contention that the McCanns are not loving parents who do not cherish and adore their children?
ETA: I think what you might stand to gain from unfavourably comparing the McCanns' parenting skills to your own is a sense of smug self-satisfaction and a way of bigging yourself up, IMO.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2015, 03:10:00 PM
There is all the difference in the world in children enjoying new adventures and friends during supervised play for a few days while on a family holiday ... and taking them on outings which mirrored their normal home lives in the weeks and months of their enforced stay in Portugal.
Extraordinary that you fail to recognise that.
I find it extraordinary that some people fail to see that a 'family holiday' where three fifths of the family spend most of the time with non family members is a misnomer.
No one was 'forced' to stay in Portugal.
What outings took place during 'normal home life'? One each week? Two? More? Any?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2015, 03:12:29 PM
So is it your contention that the McCanns are not loving parents who do not cherish and adore their children?
ETA: I think what you might stand to gain from unfavourably comparing the McCanns' parenting skills to your own is a sense of smug self-satisfaction and a way of bigging yourself up, IMO.
What was it you said to me a while back about ad hominems?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: jassi on August 29, 2015, 03:13:59 PM
I find it extraordinary that some people fail to see that a 'family holiday' where three fifths of the family spend most of the time with non family members is a misnomer. No one was 'forced' to stay in Portugal.
What outings took place during 'normal home life'? One each week? Two? More? Any?
Not just them of course, their family and some of their friends were forced to be there as well.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2015, 03:19:16 PM
So is it your contention that the McCanns are not loving parents who do not cherish and adore their children?
ETA: I think what you might stand to gain from unfavourably comparing the McCanns' parenting skills to your own is a sense of smug self-satisfaction and a way of bigging yourself up, IMO.
It's my contention that we don't know what kind of parents they were. Some people insist that they were loving parents who cherished and adored their children. I am pointing out that their actions don't support this viewpoint. Their actions suggest that their main aim in life was getting rid of the kids as often as possible.
What you think of my motives means less than nothing to me as I know you are just being nasty and trying to get a reaction.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2015, 03:23:51 PM
Not just them of course, their family and some of their friends were forced to be there as well.
I know, such a drag. Mark Warner were very helpful though;
That every day around 13H00, he heads to no. 4-G (where the family of the missing child is staying) and to no. 4-1 (where 10 people are lodged) to deliver lunch. He repeats this routine at 20H00 to take them dinner. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIAGO_BARREIROS.htm
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 03:27:39 PM
It's my contention that we don't know what kind of parents they were. Some people insist that they were loving parents who cherished and adored their children. I am pointing out that their actions don't support this viewpoint.
What you think of my motives means less than nothing to me as I know you are just being nasty and trying to get a reaction.
So you don't believe they were loving or caring, based on the events of a one week holiday. What is your view of parents who work full-time and put their kids into nursery from 8am - 6pm every work day from the age of 4 months? Are they not capable of being loving or caring parents in your view?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pegasus on August 29, 2015, 03:40:26 PM
I know, such a drag. Mark Warner were very helpful though;
That every day around 13H00, he heads to no. 4-G (where the family of the missing child is staying) and to no. 4-1 (where 10 people are lodged) to deliver lunch. He repeats this routine at 20H00 to take them dinner. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIAGO_BARREIROS.htm
Yes and possibly he goes back after each meal to pick up the used plates etc? (source GNR dog handler statements).
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Lace on August 29, 2015, 03:57:48 PM
If children are used to being put into creches so parents can work/shop/whatever they will know that objecting gets them nowhere. I find it sad that parents take their children abroad and put them in a creche. No exploring the local culture, no visiting local attractions, no fun with Mum and Dad. They might as well be with relatives back home who would give them some attention. The twins had a much better time when their aunt arrived and kept them out of the creche in the afternoons so they could go on outings to the zoo. etc. She seemed to have the same outlook on childcare as I do.
In the afternoons we would go out with the children, I didnt think it was a good idea for them to be in the creche for the whole day, we tried to maintain a routine in order to give them a sense of normality. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
I am sorry Gunit but how people choose to spend their holidays in my opinion is up to them.
How do you know they weren't going on another holiday later in the year?
How much to do you think a child of almost four and twins aged two was going to lap up the wonder of the local culture? Or attractions? All kids want at that age is the beach and the sea and games and fun they had all that didn't they?
I really don't begrudge the parents having a holiday that wasn't totally revolved around the children, as I said they had been on holiday once that year as it was, the parents had a bit of fun too and the children enjoyed themselves. Are you saying they didn't enjoy themselves?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Benice on August 29, 2015, 04:01:07 PM
It's my contention that we don't know what kind of parents they were. Some people insist that they were loving parents who cherished and adored their children. I am pointing out that their actions don't support this viewpoint. Their actions suggest that their main aim in life was getting rid of the kids as often as possible.
What you think of my motives means less than nothing to me as I know you are just being nasty and trying to get a reaction.
Another example IMO of stating the complete opposite of the true facts. If the McCanns aim in life was to get rid of their children as often as possible, they wouldn't have had them in the first place IMO. They were not unfortunate 'accidents'.
After several sad childless years they were so desperate to have a family they turned to IVF. The result was Madeleine, and they loved being her parents so much - they then went on to have the twins. Proof IMO that those children could not have been more wanted and loved. You only have to look at the photos/videos to see that..
You talk as if they were a huge inconvenience on the strength of one weeks holiday - at a place which was specifically designed to cater for the enjoyment of both the parents and children.
You've reminded me of a neighbour of mine who never let her two children out of the house on their own. You could often see them at their bedroom window looking down at the other kids playing together. I used to feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2015, 04:14:01 PM
I find it extraordinary that some people fail to see that a 'family holiday' where three fifths of the family spend most of the time with non family members is a misnomer.
No one was 'forced' to stay in Portugal.
What outings took place during 'normal home life'? One each week? Two? More? Any?
How people wish to spend their time on holiday is a matter for them ... and as has been pointed out already this was the second family holiday in the first few months of the year ... so not bad going for them.
Your dislike of this family is palpable ~ as your belittling of the enforced stay in Portugal reveals.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 04:31:19 PM
Are all these kids clubs empty on holiday or just full of neglected children. posters on here have no right to tell teh mccans how to live their life...just a load of interfering busybodies.
I have no right to tell smokers and fat people to change just because I pay taxes
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 29, 2015, 04:45:31 PM
Another example IMO of stating the complete opposite of the true facts. If the McCanns aim in life was to get rid of their children as often as possible, they wouldn't have had them in the first place IMO. They were not unfortunate 'accidents'.
After several sad childless years they were so desperate to have a family they turned to IVF. The result was Madeleine, and they loved being her parents so much - they then went on to have the twins. Proof IMO that those children could not have been more wanted and loved. You only have to look at the photos/videos to see that..
You talk as if they were a huge inconvenience on the strength of one weeks holiday - at a place which was specifically designed to cater for the enjoyment of both the parents and children.
You've reminded me of a neighbour of mine who never let her two children out of the house on their own. You could often see them at their bedroom window looking down at the other kids playing together. I used to feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 04:54:22 PM
Are all these kids clubs empty on holiday or just full of neglected children. posters on here have no right to tell teh mccans how to live their life...just a load of interfering busybodies.
I have no right to tell smokers and fat people to change just because I pay taxes
By G-Unit's standards it would seem that anyone who allows their children to be looked after by a non-family member for any length of time does not particularly love or cherish their kids, a pretty strange view imo.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 05:30:06 PM
By G-Unit's standards it would seem that anyone who allows their children to be looked after by a non-family member for any length of time does not particularly love or cherish their kids, a pretty strange view imo.
but they are much safer with strangers...look at the statistics
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 05:41:57 PM
What are all these self-satisfied sanctimonious do-gooders who care so much about justice 4 Maddie doing about the poor little neglected and unloved twins? Why are they allowing these children to be brought up in misery and despair by their cold-hearted, heartless, one might almost say psychopathic parents? Why aren't they beating down the doors of social services to get them taken into care? Surely it is incumbent on these do-gooders not to sit idly behind their computer screens whilst the poor little mites suffer day in day out, isn't it?
*waits patiently to be given a warning for 'libelling' the McCanns*
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Eleanor on August 29, 2015, 05:45:38 PM
What are all these self-satisfied sanctimonious do-gooders who care so much about justice 4 Maddie doing about the poor little neglected and unloved twins? Why are they allowing these children to be brought up in misery and despair by their cold-hearted, heartless, one might almost say psychopathic parents? Why aren't they beating down the doors of social services to get them taken into care? Surely it is incumbent on these do-gooders not to sit idly behind their computer screens whilst the poor little mites suffer day in day out, isn't it?
*waits patiently to be given a warning for 'libelling' the McCanns*
I thought they already had tried. Several times. God knows what went wrong. Obviously Social Services don't care.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 05:47:04 PM
Ask ferryman on that one. He doesn't seem to think there was anything untoward there.
I wonder what the convictions were about then? Oh no! surely not The States of Jersey Police at it fitting up innocent people, like you know who.............
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 06:44:34 PM
I wonder what the convictions were about then? Oh no! surely not The States of Jersey Police at it fitting up innocent people, like you know who.............
no it's stephen getting everything wrong again
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 29, 2015, 06:48:41 PM
its a case of your poor accuracy of reading and recall. Like me ferryman does not think there is any evidence of death in Jersey but ther ecould well have been child abuse....there is in most large institutions...so your claim that "nothing happened there" is pure BS
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 29, 2015, 06:55:24 PM
its a case of your poor accuracy of reading and recall. Like me ferryman does not think there is any evidence of death in Jersey but ther ecould well have been child abuse....there is in most large institutions...so your claim that "nothing happened there" is pure BS
Well I suggest you keep an eye on the child abuse inquiry for that.
It is already been stated that police colluded in cover up of abuse.
I presume, you heard the ex-coppers who were interviewed on TV ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 06:59:01 PM
There was a poster on here who did work in Social Services, and unlike some on here knew what she was talking about.
I didn't realise you needed legal powers in order to draw the authorities' attention to child neglect - if you genuinely think the McCanns kids are at risk and if you genuinely care about them then you would be phoning up social services on a daily basis or hammering on their doors until you got some answers. Fact is, I don't think you really DO believe they are at risk, but you probably don't actually care one way or the other.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2015, 07:08:24 PM
I didn't realise you needed legal powers in order to draw the authorities' attention to child neglect - if you genuinely think the McCanns kids are at risk and if you genuinely care about them then you would be phoning up social services on a daily basis or hammering on their doors until you got some answers. Fact is, I don't think you really DO believe they are at risk, but you probably don't actually care one way or the other.
.
What would have happened to the mccanns alfred, if they had left their children as they did repeatedly, in this country and not Portugal ?
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 29, 2015, 07:21:38 PM
Davel wrote "its a case of your poor accuracy of reading and recall. Like me ferryman does not think there is any evidence of death in Jersey but ther ecould well have been child abuse....there is in most large institutions...so your claim that "nothing happened there" is pure BS"
How can you misunerstand that? Just because of the " ther ecould"?
Its as bad as someone writing " take her to the local polupice station, would you make a scene, or take iit on the chin ?" - isn't it *&*%£
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 29, 2015, 07:25:41 PM
Davel wrote "its a case of your poor accuracy of reading and recall. Like me ferryman does not think there is any evidence of death in Jersey but ther ecould well have been child abuse....there is in most large institutions...so your claim that "nothing happened there" is pure BS"
How can you misunerstand that? Just because of the " ther ecould"?
Its as bad as someone writing " take her to the local polupice station, would you make a scene, or take iit on the chin ?" - isn't it *&*%£
Fair enough JP.
8((()*/
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 29, 2015, 07:30:21 PM
and she provide no proof of her claim...and sounded like a bit of a fruit cake
It's hard being challenged by a professional in their field when you're not one I guess. I understand totally.Sometimes you do have to be humble, and listen to the experts. Of,of course, you can slag them off because you dislike what they say.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 09:12:20 PM
It's hard being challenged by a professional in their field when you're not one I guess. I understand totally.Sometimes you do have to be humble, and listen to the experts. Of,of course, you can slag them off because you dislike what they say.
i'm more than happy to listen to experts...i do it every day...and every expert i deal with is more than happy to defend their claims. The point I make is that stephen is happy to accept someone as an expert when they agree with him...hardly an objective view
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 29, 2015, 09:15:49 PM
i'm more than happy to listen to experts...i do it every day...and every expert i deal with is more than happy to defend their claims. The point I make is that stephen is happy to accept someone as an expert when they agree with him...hardly an objective view
Is that why you claimed not so long ago, in some legal proceedings, you were advising your legal team on how to proceed ? *&*%£g
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
Is that why you claimed not so long ago, in some legal proceedings, you were advising your legal team on how to proceed ? *&*%£g
it was quite some time ago...I was suing a solicitor and my counsel thought I didn't have a case...i told him to serve the writ and the solicitor settled out of court... i could expalin the point of law but it's off topic
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 29, 2015, 09:21:23 PM
it was quite some time ago...I was suing a solicitor and my counsel thought I didn't have a case...i told him to serve the writ and the solicitor settled out of court... i could expalin the point of law but it's off topic
Of course dave.
However again, you cannot cite anything.
So as you like to say,
It has no value. 8((()*/
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 09:22:49 PM
i'm more than happy to listen to experts...i do it every day...and every expert i deal with is more than happy to defend their claims. The point I make is that stephen is happy to accept someone as an expert when they agree with him...hardly an objective view
No, your point was someone couldn't prove their claim to be of a certain profession and very experienced (wasn't it?) and that they sounded like a fruitcake...hardly objective. If you demand proof of someone's qualifications and experience, you would then have to provide it yourself for all your "claims" too IMHO
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: mercury on August 29, 2015, 09:24:45 PM
No, your point was someone couldn't prove their claim to be of a certain profession and very experienced (wasn't it?) and that they sounded like a fruitcake...hardly objective. If you demand proof of someone's qualifications and experience, you would then have to provide it yourself for all your "claims" too IMHO
first my opinion is subjective and i have never claimed anything else second...I never asked for proof from her and never would...so you are wrong on both counts it is rather stupid to ask for proof of professional qualifications on this forum but that does not stop one poster
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 09:29:31 PM
first my opinion is subjective and i have never claimed anything else second...I never asked for proof from her and never would...so you are wrong on both counts it is rather stupid to ask for proof of professional qualifications on this forum but that does not stop one poster
I'm not the one making ridiculous claims.
Title: Re: The parents of a missing child don't matter.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2015, 09:30:47 PM