UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on April 28, 2015, 01:27:35 PM
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No money left for Algarve jollies by the looks of it. Seems that last press article relating that resources are to be diverted was on the money. Police boss says £10 million hunt must end!
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008479/Yes-s-time-stopped-looking-Maddie-police-boss-says-10m-hunt-end-DAVID-JONES-s-reported-case-eight-years-explains-heavy-heart-agrees.html
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No money left for Algarve jollies by the looks of it. Seems that last press article relating that resources are to be diverted was on the money. Police boss says £10 million hunt must end!
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008479/Yes-s-time-stopped-looking-Maddie-police-boss-says-10m-hunt-end-DAVID-JONES-s-reported-case-eight-years-explains-heavy-heart-agrees.html
I wonder if it will be quietly closed next week?
To coin a phrase "the back end of next week would be a good time to bury bad news".
I always was a cynic.
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I wonder if it will be quietly closed next week?
To coin a phrase "the back end of next week would be a good time to bury bad news".
I always was a cynic.
Best thing to be in this case ?{)(**
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I wonder if it will be quietly closed next week?
To coin a phrase "the back end of next week would be a good time to bury bad news".
I always was a cynic.
I've always been a bit of an optimist and to me at the moment ~ no news is good news ~ I have confidence that as long as there is viable evidence to be followed it will be followed.
Mainly because at the end of the day someone is going to have to put their name to it whenever the end of the trail has been reached and no-one will be queuing up to be that person if there is any chance that in the future he/she will be revealed as having acted with undue haste.
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And we all expected so much from Scotland Yard!
Here we are months after DCI Andy Redwood retired from the Madeleine McCann investigation and not a single newsworthy report has resulted from the last frenzied activity in Praia da Luz. All the interviews have come to nothing, no house searches and no arrests.
Activity has all but ceased!
Has the investigation finally run out of money steam?
http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Latest-update-on-Madeleine-McCann-case/1400018438045/1257246745782
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And we all expected so much from Scotland Yard!
Here we are months after DCI Andy Redwood retired from the Madeleine McCann investigation and not a single newsworthy report has resulted from the last frenzied activity in Praia da Luz. All the interviews have come to nothing, no house searches and no arrests.
Activity has all but ceased!
Has the investigation finally run out of money steam?
As SY have assured us they will not be giving us a running commentary on their investigations, I think it's unwise to draw any conclusions from the fact that they are not giving us a running commentary on their investigations.
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Just because SY does not give the public a running commentary of the investigation does not mean that they are not doing anything. We don't need to know what they are doing at this time.
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The absence of anything from Scotland Yard and more importantly Portugal is indicative that the entire investigation has been wound down hugely. Leaks are endemic to SY and the PJ so no leaks speaks volumes.
Could also be that there has been an agreement put into effect to avoid turning Praia da Luz into a circus town during the summer vacation.
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The absence of anything from Scotland Yard and more importantly Portugal is indicative that the entire investigation has been wound down hugely. Leaks are endemic to SY and the PJ so no leaks speaks volumes.
Could also be that there has been an agreement put into effect to avoid turning Praia da Luz into a circus town during the summer vacation.
Quite possibly.
There was a great deal of resentment in Portugal following last year.
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And we all expected so much from Scotland Yard!
Here we are months after DCI Andy Redwood retired from the Madeleine McCann investigation and not a single newsworthy report has resulted from the last frenzied activity in Praia da Luz. All the interviews have come to nothing, no house searches and no arrests.
Activity has all but ceased!
Has the investigation finally run out of money steam?
http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Latest-update-on-Madeleine-McCann-case/1400018438045/1257246745782
The short answer is that it hasn't, because a crime remains unsolved and Madeleine's distraught parents still seek answers (just as any responsible, caring parents in their place would).
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The short answer is that it hasn't, because a crime remains unsolved and Madeleine's distraught parents still seek answers (just as any responsible, caring parents in their place would).
There are many missing British children whose disappearance has never been solved. As for answers, that's a bit rich given what happened.
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There are many missing British children whose disappearance has never been solved. As for answers, that's a bit rich given what happened.
If (God forbid!) anyone were to kidnap your child, would you not want answers?
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If (God forbid!) anyone were to kidnap your child, would you not want answers?
First off I would cooperate with those police officers charged with finding out what happened to my child no matter what my personal feelings of them were. As for calling them f..king tossers....
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First off I would cooperate with those police officers charged with finding out what happened to my child no matter what my personal feelings of them were. As for calling them f.....g tossers....
Groundhog day again.
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Groundhog day again.
and don't forget 'tweedledee and tweedledum.'
The mccanns had nothing but contempt for the Portuguese Police.
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and don't forget 'tweedledee and tweedledum.'
The mccanns had nothing but contempt for the Portuguese Police.
I can't say I'm frightfully impressed with The Portuguese Police either. But Scotland Yard will get there in the end.
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And we all expected so much from Scotland Yard!
Here we are months after DCI Andy Redwood retired from the Madeleine McCann investigation and not a single newsworthy report has resulted from the last frenzied activity in Praia da Luz. All the interviews have come to nothing, no house searches and no arrests.
Activity has all but ceased!
Has the investigation finally run out of money steam?
http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Latest-update-on-Madeleine-McCann-case/1400018438045/1257246745782
The MSM in both countries have been remarkably quiet, its as if someone has thrown a switch. To be fair though, Scotland Yard have more pressing cases to pursue and money is at a premium these days so little wonder things have gone deadly quiet.
Diverging for a moment, I was recently in Portugal and dropped the subject of Madeleine into the odd tapas conversation. I was always pleasantly surprised at the willingness of the British tourist to entertain my questions and most were not slow at suggesting an outcome to the case.
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I can't say I'm frightfully impressed with The Portuguese Police either. But Scotland Yard will get there in the end.
always remembering that it is a Portuguese enquiry and Scotland Yard have no principal role.
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You can bet there's activity. Documentaries on the way (probably), another book (definitely). More 'revelation moments' sooner or later.
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You can bet there's activity. Documentaries on the way (probably), another book (definitely). More 'revelation moments' sooner or later.
what documentary and what book
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what documentary and what book
From the McCanns and their allies.
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The start of the review/investigation coincided with the launch of the first book,and all the publicity surrounding the 4th anniversary. It's unlikely it would be ended without also coinciding with similar media efforts.
(They have probably scaled it down privately though - the Police Federation guy had a point didn't he? What on earth do/did all those detectives do when not on visits to Portugal for interviews/searches?)
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Back on topic, there's no way of knowing how the investigations are going. The last of the leaks in the cauldron appear to have been plugged for the moment.
It's entirely possible that it will wind down at some point, with possibly just a few desk officers left to keep an active eye on anything new, if there isn't sufficient evidence to charge anyone. On the other hand, at least they should have a full and fully searchable database to quickly double-check on anything new of potential significance, either directly related to the Madeleine case or to another one with what may be indirect links.
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Back on topic, there's no way of knowing how the investigations are going. The last of the leaks in the cauldron appear to have been plugged for the moment.
It's entirely possible that it will wind down at some point, with possibly just a few desk officers left to keep an active eye on anything new, if there isn't sufficient evidence to charge anyone. On the other hand, at least they should have a full and fully searchable database to quickly double-check on anything new of potential significance, either directly related to the Madeleine case or to another one with what may be indirect links.
Its inevitable, as it can't go on for ever. Apart from anything else, the officers will get stale and want to move on to more 'satisfying' cases, or in some cases, probably retire.
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Its inevitable, as it can't go on for ever. Apart from anything else, the officers will get stale and want to move on to more 'satisfying' cases, or in some cases, probably retire.
Possibly. On the other hand, a fully searchable database is still a mega step forward, IMO. It may never solve what happened to Madeleine herself (although I still hope so), but the amount of data may help to include or exclude people in other cases that may be under investigation.
I have no reason to doubt that these other sexual assaults did happen (whether actual or potential). Those families deserve closure as well. Whether there is a link or not remains to be seen.
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No. Kate says she said something while being questioned and it doesn't end up in the transcript yet her lawyer doesn't question that ommision. That's the kind of context I'm talking about.
Do you really think everything kate said is in the transcript...kate's interviews lasted 19 hours or so...the transcrpts are probably about 20 mins...
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There is no mention in the transcript of the words "f..king tosser" - is it therefore safe to assume Kate made this up? I guess so!
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What omission would that be. "And neither can you?" Big deal!! Do you really think either of them is going to insist that that comment is recorded as part of a police statement? If she said she said it, she said it. Why lie about it?
Dramatic effect ? Much like the housewife saying she had raised the fact that the twins couldn't be roused with the police on the night of the 3rd yet not one witness who was there at the time, not even her best friend Fiona, verified Kate's claim. Odd that !!
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Clarence Mitchell..............
"I believe Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine's death"
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Clarence Mitchell..............
"I believe Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine's death"
could you supply the context
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Dramatic effect ? Much like the housewife saying she had raised the fact that the twins couldn't be roused with the police on the night of the 3rd yet not one witness who was there at the time, not even her best friend Fiona, verified Kate's claim. Odd that !!
Sorry, you've lost me.
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And we all expected so much from Scotland Yard!
Here we are months after DCI Andy Redwood retired from the Madeleine McCann investigation and not a single newsworthy report has resulted from the last frenzied activity in Praia da Luz. All the interviews have come to nothing, no house searches and no arrests.
Activity has all but ceased!
Has the investigation finally run out of money steam?
http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Latest-update-on-Madeleine-McCann-case/1400018438045/1257246745782
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Angelo, how do you know that activity has all but ceased? Do they secretly brief you?
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Angelo, how do you know that activity has all but ceased? Do they secretly brief you?
I think there will be lasting legacies and lessons learned from the co-operation between SY and the PJ as a result of their involvement in working Madeleine McCann's case.
It is even possible that in the future there will be no barrier or resistance to joint working arrangements in serious cases as a result of the work carried out on this occasion.
In the meantime ... as long as we are hearing nothing about the case ... the investigations are continuing. When they have something to tell us they will, and DCI Redwood did warn it was going to be along haul.
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I think there will be lasting legacies and lessons learned from the co-operation between SY and the PJ as a result of their involvement in working Madeleine McCann's case.
It is even possible that in the future there will be no barrier or resistance to joint working arrangements in serious cases as a result of the work carried out on this occasion.
In the meantime ... as long as we are hearing nothing about the case ... the investigations are continuing. When they have something to tell us they will, and DCI Redwood did warn it was going to be along haul.
That already exists for serious cases. The clue is in "serious".
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That already exists for serious cases. The clue is in "serious".
so...in your opinion...this is not a serious case
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I've just checked this section of Kate's book and she didn't say ' and neither can you' she said no then thought ' and neither could he '. Very different.
Well done. Another criticism of the PJ/translators shown as false.
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It's run it's course on the forums...the criticism of the mccanns is pathetic as the dogs and inconsistencies have been shown for what they are...a nothingness...
It depends what SY find...if it's nothing then taht's the end of the official investigation and I don't see how the mccanns can take it any further
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It's run it's course on the forums...the criticism of the mccanns is pathetic as the dogs and inconsistencies have been shown for what they are...a nothingness...
It depends what SY find...if it's nothing then taht's the end of the official investigation and I don't see how the mccanns can take it any further
''...the criticism of the mccanns is pathetic..''
it only exists for what they did, and the pathetic excuses they made for their behaviour.
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''...the criticism of the mccanns is pathetic..''
it only exists for what they did, and the pathetic excuses they made for their behaviour.
that's absolute rubbish...there are total lies being told about them...
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Well done. Another criticism of the PJ/translators shown as false.
You treating Kate's book as a reliable source? Tut tut.
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that's absolute rubbish...there are total lies being told about them...
and what lies come from their side ???
Like for example the jemmying ?
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That already exists for serious cases. The clue is in "serious".
Indeed joint working arrangements do exist. One of the benefits of such an agreement to pool resources is it cuts bureaucracy and duplication of effort and costs.
Unfortunately it doesn't just happen automatically, it has to be negotiated and agreed.
I wonder why you consider a case concerning a missing child isn't a "serious" one. Would it make a difference if her name didn't end in McCann?
**Snip
Mrs McCann said she was particularly frustrated that police in Portugal had so far ruled out a joint inquiry with their British counterparts.
"As a parent, I find the slowness of action in Portugal really hard to take. I find it quite distressing," she said.
"Even though we're seven years down the line, waiting weeks or months, particularly for letters of request to be processed basically... it is frustrating.
"I suppose I do struggle with the fact. Please work together."
'Parallel investigations'
Mrs McCann said she had not been given a reason why a joint team had not been set up.
"To us, it makes sense that the two police forces should work together, to have a more streamlined approach to avoid duplication and basically to progress the investigation at a faster pace," she added.
Her husband Gerry said: "What is very, very clear is that there are lots of lines of inquiry and a lot of further work needs to be done in Portugal.
"The Met can only do so much with the information that they have."
Mr McCann said it was a "big step forward" that the Portuguese investigation had been reopened but admitted the bureaucratic process was causing delays.
"The concern that we have, and I think also that the Metropolitan Police have, is that at the minute, there's almost parallel investigations going on, which doesn't make sense," said Mr McCann.
"We're not quite sure why there's resistance to the joint investigation team, because clearly resources in Portugal is an issue and this would be one mechanism by which they could have additional funding."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27239149
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Well done. Another criticism of the PJ/translators shown as false.
Are you sure about that?
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Goodness me, you all aren't half finding some misunderstandings. I am really impressed.
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Indeed joint working arrangements do exist. One of the benefits of such an agreement to pool resources is it cuts bureaucracy and duplication of effort and costs.
Unfortunately it doesn't just happen automatically, it has to be negotiated and agreed.
I wonder why you consider a case concerning a missing child isn't a "serious" one. Would it make a difference if her name didn't end in McCann?
**Snip
Mrs McCann said she was particularly frustrated that police in Portugal had so far ruled out a joint inquiry with their British counterparts.
"As a parent, I find the slowness of action in Portugal really hard to take. I find it quite distressing," she said.
"Even though we're seven years down the line, waiting weeks or months, particularly for letters of request to be processed basically... it is frustrating.
"I suppose I do struggle with the fact. Please work together."
'Parallel investigations'
Mrs McCann said she had not been given a reason why a joint team had not been set up.
"To us, it makes sense that the two police forces should work together, to have a more streamlined approach to avoid duplication and basically to progress the investigation at a faster pace," she added.
Her husband Gerry said: "What is very, very clear is that there are lots of lines of inquiry and a lot of further work needs to be done in Portugal.
"The Met can only do so much with the information that they have."
Mr McCann said it was a "big step forward" that the Portuguese investigation had been reopened but admitted the bureaucratic process was causing delays.
"The concern that we have, and I think also that the Metropolitan Police have, is that at the minute, there's almost parallel investigations going on, which doesn't make sense," said Mr McCann.
"We're not quite sure why there's resistance to the joint investigation team, because clearly resources in Portugal is an issue and this would be one mechanism by which they could have additional funding."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27239149
JIT's are set up when requested through and and at the behest of Europol. It's all set out if you look hard enough. Although it may not say what suits you.
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JIT's are set up when requested through and and at the behest of Europol. It's all set out if you look hard enough. Although it may not say what suits you.
Hmmm ... wonder why no one ever thought of that ... surely very remiss ...
**Snip
The Metropolitan Police announce their desire to set up a "joint investigation team" with the Portuguese authorities. Met Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe says the force is seeking agreement for the team from the UK and Portuguese and UK governments, and that it would be more effective than the current "ad-hoc" approach to working together.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
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And we all expected so much from Scotland Yard!
Here we are months after DCI Andy Redwood retired from the Madeleine McCann investigation and not a single newsworthy report has resulted from the last frenzied activity in Praia da Luz. All the interviews have come to nothing, no house searches and no arrests.
Activity has all but ceased!
Has the investigation finally run out of money steam?
http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Latest-update-on-Madeleine-McCann-case/1400018438045/1257246745782
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According to the Home Office it won't run out of money.
Since N Hall took over it has all gone quiet.
Who knows why, mYbe its a good thing. But if they come back with another pile of every couple weeks, then, yes, I for one won't be expecting much
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JIT's are set up when requested through and and at the behest of Europol. It's all set out if you look hard enough. Although it may not say what suits you.
this is why in my view SY are making such slow progress. the Portuguese refuse a joint investigation which would allow the investigation to move much quicker...but they refuse...what have they got to hide...I think we all know the answer to that
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this is why in my view SY are making such slow progress. the Portuguese refuse a joint investigation which would allow the investigation to move much quicker...but they refuse...what have they got to hide...I think we all know the answer to that
Who is "we"? I dont. Do tell.
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Who is "we"? I dont. Do tell.
it's an English expression in common use
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this is why in my view SY are making such slow progress. the Portuguese refuse a joint investigation which would allow the investigation to move much quicker...but they refuse...what have they got to hide...I think we all know the answer to that
JIT's are predominantly set up for more serious crimes that missing persons.
Have the MPS requested a JIT through Europol ?. As you always put it that SY agree with you rather than the other way round one presumes you are the spider at the centre of the web and will have cites for such things. Otherwise 'tis as you say merely your opinion (view) no more valid than mine or any other Tom Dick or Harry.
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JIT's are predominantly set up for more serious crimes that missing persons.
Have the MPS requested a JIT through Europol ?. As you always put it that SY agree with you rather than the other way round one presumes you are the spider at the centre of the web and will have cites for such things. Otherwise 'tis as you say merely your opinion (view) no more valid than mine or any other Tom Dick or Harry.
This isn't a simple missing person case
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This isn't a simple missing person case
Really ?
Are you putting her, or is it really her parents, on a pedestal ?
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In partial agreement with Alice:
Based on what I'd been able to read the last time I looked into it, I'd agree that establishing a JIT doesn't appear to be that simple. Europol appears to be a facilitating agency, not the equivalent of the FBI.
In partial agreement with Davel:
Madeleine's disappearance may well be the tip of an iceberg in terms of serious criminal activity of various types.
Perhaps it's just my impression, but PT seems to be moving forward at great strides, despite enormous obstacles. I find it entirely possible that greater cooperation has now been established, whatever form that has taken.
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Stephen...like anyone else you do not have a clue what Grange have or have not found
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Stephen,
I would like a good answer to that too, please.
What has it achieved Sadie ?
Second, how long should it continue for with no tangible results ?
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What has it achieved Sadie ?
Second, how long should it continue for with no tangible results ?
As much and for as long as the Ben Needham and Claudia Lawrence investigations I would say.
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What has it achieved Sadie ?
Second, how long should it continue for with no tangible results ?
I believe that, that decision, Stephen, is for those in a position to evaluate anything that may have been revealed ,or of value, to date.
We do not know anything of the ongoing investigations and as such are in no position to disagree with those who do.
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As much and for as long as the Ben Needham and Claudia Lawrence investigations I would say.
Out come the clichéd cases.
and what about all other missing people ?
Do they get a look for in with police time and tax payers money ?
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We know what the pj are trying to hide
So, what is it? because I seriously do not know what the secret is that has apparently been the reason behind some alledged refusal to have a JIT.
From now on a non response must prove a "climb down" on statements or assertions. Just to be clear.
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Out come the clichéd cases.
and what about all other missing people ?
Do they get a look for in with police time and tax payers money ?
you think Ben and Claudia's families think these cases are a cliché? Have a little respect. I suppose you think their investigations should be shut down too then?
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There are at least 30 unsolved murders from 2000 up to now. I doubt they are "closed" but I also doubt they each have a 30+ strong task force working on them.
And only today Sir Peter Fahy said words to the effect that missing teen searches were unsustainable to Greater Manchester Police on resource grounds.
So it does rather beg the question why the MPS continue to use considerable resources on a "crime" that comes under another country's jurisdiction.
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There are at least 30 unsolved murders from 2000 up to now. I doubt they are "closed" but I also doubt they each have a 30+ strong task force working on them.
And only today Sir Peter Fahy said words to the effect that missing teen searches were unsustainable to Greater Manchester Police on resource grounds.
So it does rather beg the question why the MPS continue to use considerable resources on a "crime" that comes under another country's jurisdiction.
Out of interest why do you put quote marks around the word "crime"?
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There are at least 30 unsolved murders from 2000 up to now. I doubt they are "closed" but I also doubt they each have a 30+ strong task force working on them.
And only today Sir Peter Fahy said words to the effect that missing teen searches were unsustainable to Greater Manchester Police on resource grounds.
So it does rather beg the question why the MPS continue to use considerable resources on a "crime" that comes under another country's jurisdiction.
A question I have raised before...it could well be that they are making some progress
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A question I have raised before...it could well be that they are making some progress
Of course they are. 8**8:/:
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A question I have raised before...it could well be that they are making some progress
It could equally well be they aren't.
But that does not address the issue of why the Metropolitan Police Service are "investigating" a case in a country where they have no jurisdiction.
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It could equally well be they aren't.
But that does not address the issue of why the Metropolitan Police Service are "investigating" a case in a country where they have no jurisdiction.
Because people, no matter who they are, can't be allowed to go around committing crimes against Brits Abroad without some attempt to find out what happened. And I think you will find that France and Germany feel the same way.
Not sure about the rest of The European Union, but I think they might be a bit bothered as well.
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There are at least 30 unsolved murders from 2000 up to now. I doubt they are "closed" but I also doubt they each have a 30+ strong task force working on them.
And only today Sir Peter Fahy said words to the effect that missing teen searches were unsustainable to Greater Manchester Police on resource grounds.
So it does rather beg the question why the MPS continue to use considerable resources on a "crime" that comes under another country's jurisdiction.
I find it unlikely that finding Madeleine (or whatever happened to her) is the sole objective. Even though the allocated funding is attributed to OG, there are bound to be off-shoot strategic objectives involved, including rebuilding the strained relationships of the past towards more efficient cooperation in the future; mutual enlightenment as to the mysterious workings of each other's jurisdictions; possibly helping to dismantle or track known or suspected gangs of whatever sort...
The UK and Spain now seem to have built up a good working relationship in terms of hunting down wanted criminals, yet PT is just a skip and a jump away...
I doubt that all 30+ are still working full-time on the Madeleine case as such outside of any "all hands on deck" periods. Depending on the skill set, some may be working on other cases (or potentially related ones) while remaining on call, with others getting on with the case plod work. Or some of those nearing retirement may be training more junior staff or even helping PT homologues in specialist areas (or vice versa).
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It could equally well be they aren't.
But that does not address the issue of why the Metropolitan Police Service are "investigating" a case in a country where they have no jurisdiction.
Because they feel that the Portuguese have not done a proper job....... They identified multiple leads that had not been properly investigated
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Because they feel that the Portuguese have not done a proper job....... They identified multiple leads that had not been properly investigated
Says who?
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Says who?
SY are investigating leads from the files which were not properly investigated
Why do you think they are there.... Or do you just criticise others without putting you own ideas up for scrutiny
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Say are investigating leads from the files which were not properly investigated
Why do you think they are there.... Or do you just criticise others without putting you own ideas up for scrutiny
You have evidence for all this I presume ? 8)--))
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Say are investigating leads from the files which were not properly investigated
Why do you think they are there.... Or do you just criticise others without putting you own ideas up for scrutiny
They are there because they've got 10 million quid, courtesy of Cameron and have been told to it on with it.
Exactly what they are doing and whether it will give a result remains to be seen.
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You have evidence for all this I presume ? 8)--))
YES
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They are there because they've got 10 million quid, courtesy of Cameron and have been told to it on with it.
Exactly what they are doing and whether it will give a result remains to be seen.
No...the initial review came to the conclusion that there were leads worth investigating
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Say are investigating leads from the files which were not properly investigated
Why do you think they are there.... Or do you just criticise others without putting you own ideas up for scrutiny
As their being there was resisted by the Home Secretary and the then head of the MPS, which was subsequently overruled by the PM, I would say their presence was directed by the PM for whatever reason.
Do you find it likely under the circumstances that The Met. are out there on the basis that they went to their boss the Home Sec. and said "The Portuguese ballsed it all up we should go and sort it out" ? At that stage what would be the basis for suggesting the Portuguese had ballsed it up other than the Tabloids and a few internet forums?
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YES
Provide it.
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No...the initial review came to the conclusion that there were leads worth investigating
Great what looking at the evidence with an open mind will do ... particularly an analytical professional one.
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Great what looking at the evidence with an open mind will do ... particularly an analytical professional one.
i.e. An open mind only to abduction. 8)--))
That Brietta is not called having an open mind.
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i.e. An open mind only to abduction. 8)--))
That Brietta is not called having an open mind.
It would not have been a very professional review if they had not considered all the options by following the evidence.
Only an idiot would formulate a theory then concentrate only on the evidence to suit that.
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It would not have been a very professional review if they had not considered all the options by following the evidence.
Only an idiot would formulate a theory then concentrate only on the evidence to suit that.
SY have never said they considered all the options.
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As their being there was resisted by the Home Secretary and the then head of the MPS, which was subsequently overruled by the PM, I would say their presence was directed by the PM for whatever reason.
Do you find it likely under the circumstances that The Met. are out there on the basis that they went to their boss the Home Sec. and said "The Portuguese ballsed it all up we should go and sort it out" ? At that stage what would be the basis for suggesting the Portuguese had ballsed it up other than the Tabloids and a few internet forums?
The Portuguese ballsed it up is spot on
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SY have never said they considered all the options.
And they have never said they haven't
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The Portuguese ballsed it up is spot on
So speaketh the expert on balls up. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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SY have never said they considered all the options.
As one doesn't when one doesn't feel the necessity to state the obvious.
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As one doesn't when one doesn't feel the necessity to state the obvious.
Of course brietta, of course.
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As their being there was resisted by the Home Secretary and the then head of the MPS, which was subsequently overruled by the PM, I would say their presence was directed by the PM for whatever reason.
Do you find it likely under the circumstances that The Met. are out there on the basis that they went to their boss the Home Sec. and said "The Portuguese ballsed it all up we should go and sort it out" ? At that stage what would be the basis for suggesting the Portuguese had ballsed it up other than the Tabloids and a few internet forums?
Indeed, same as a PM getting 'intellegence' from a taxi driver via intellegence net work ofcourse, (?)about Saddam Hussian and going into Iraq to 'sort that out'. Good job, Good Job what, what ole boy!
The child will never be found IMO, the chance was lost all those years ago. Saying she is alive to keep looking
( all over the world) is ridiculous. We have serious crimes here which need to be addressed , including the millions invading our country (not looking for work) via the EU.
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Indeed, same as a PM getting 'intellegence' from a taxi driver via intellegence net work ofcourse, (?)about Saddam Hussian and going into Iraq to 'sort that out'. Good job, Good Job what, what ole boy!
The child will never be found IMO, the chance was lost all those years ago. Saying she is alive to keep looking
( all over the world) is ridiculous. We have serious crimes here which need to be addressed , including the millions invading our country (not looking for work) via the EU.
i hate to say this but of all the missing children in the uk why is maddie the most inportant??
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Indeed, same as a PM getting 'intellegence' from a taxi driver via intellegence net work ofcourse, (?)about Saddam Hussian and going into Iraq to 'sort that out'. Good job, Good Job what, what ole boy!
The child will never be found IMO, the chance was lost all those years ago. Saying she is alive to keep looking
( all over the world) is ridiculous. We have serious crimes here which need to be addressed , including the millions invading our country (not looking for work) via the EU.
Horses for Courses, Mistaken. Someone might think twice about doing this again. And there is nothing ridiculous about thinking Madeleine could still be alive.
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i hate to say this but of all the missing children in the uk why is maddie the most inportant??
She isn't the most important. Circumstances dictate.
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Horses for Courses, Mistaken. Someone might think twice about doing this again. And there is nothing ridiculous about thinking Madeleine could still be alive.
Ridiculous referring to search all over the world for 'sightings'. Supporters will be inundating police with their whacky 'oh look This could be her pix.
If Maddie turns up alive some day that is wonderful- what state she will be in is another story. But it is time to let go and bide time. The parents can take up the investigation themselves- leaving no stone unturned as they claimed long time ago!
The parents were let off with the part they played.
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Ridiculous referring to search all over the world for 'sightings'. Supporters will be inundating police with their whacky 'oh look This could be her pix.
If Maddie turns up alive some day that is wonderful- what state she will be in is another story. But it is time to let go and bide time. The parents can take up the investigation themselves- leaving no stone unturned as they claimed long time ago!
The parents were let off with the part they played.
i agree a 100%
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i agree a 100%
Very interesting technique for finding a missing person ... ignore any possible sightings. Perhaps we should recommend it to the authorities who publish photographs of missing people in the hope someone may see them.
Or are we only talking - Madeleine McCann here??
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Very interesting technique for finding a missing person ... ignore any possible sightings. Perhaps we should recommend it to the authorities who publish photographs of missing people in the hope someone may see them.
Or are we only talking - Madeleine McCann here??
Just Madeleine, it seems. Who cares, eh! Some of us actually do care. Which seems a far better reason than some have for being here.
But don't mind me. I am really not important.
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The idea that other missing children are being ignored is rather silly. Most missing children are either abducted by parents in custody disputes or are teenage runaways who don't want to be found. there are very very few cases like Maddie...Ben Needham being one
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The idea that other missing children are being ignored is rather silly. Most missing children are either abducted by parents in custody disputes or are teenage runaways who don't want to be found. there are very very few cases like Maddie...Ben Needham being one
This is something that a lot of people don't seem to understand. A British child, lost abroad. Followed by a less than perfect investigation, and shite the like of which beggars belief.
A decidedly corrupt PJ Officer who used the same tactics in the case of another missing child less than five miles away, who has also never been found. But everyone seems to have given up on her.
No, it hasn't run it's course. But if it ever does then I expect The McCanns to go on fighting.
Sadly, Leonor Cipriano doesn't have the same resources.
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i agree a 100%
If you had gone missing, would you agree that no one should have looked for you? Carly's just another kid, who cares? Or would you hope that people hadn't given up hope and were still trying to find you?
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If you had gone missing, would you agree that no one should have looked for you? Carly's just another kid, who cares? Or would you hope that people hadn't given up hope and were still trying to find you?
Over 8 years and no sign of her and no definitive evidence of how she disappeared.
So again how long should the British taxpayer continue to fork out with no results.
Are there any comparable cases ?
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Over 8 years and no sign of her and no definitive evidence of how she disappeared.
So again how long should the British taxpayer continue to fork out with no results.
Are there any comparable cases ?
yes..they are still looking for Ben
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Over 8 years and no sign of her and no definitive evidence of how she disappeared.
So again how long should the British taxpayer continue to fork out with no results.
Are there any comparable cases ?
Same question to you.
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yes..they are still looking for Ben
Has the tax payer being paying for this for a crime in another country, over which they have no jurisdiction ?
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Same question to you.
So there cases where the UK taxpayer has forked out over £10,000,000 for a crime which happened in another country ?
and with zero results.
In which the parents which received government assistance at the highest level ?
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Has the tax payer being paying for this for a crime in another country, over which they have no jurisdiction ?
There was a long thread on here about jurisdiction. I hope that it's still on here somewhere.
The norm is that the jurisdiction is where a crime was committed.
However, and from memory, this can be open to negotiation in the event of numerous crimes committed in a variety of jurisdictions. Or the person can serve a sentence in one country, be released, and be arrested for crimes committed elsewhere.
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So there cases where the UK taxpayer has forked out over £10,000,000 for a crime which happened in another country ?
and with zero results.
In which the parents which received government assistance at the highest level ?
If you had gone missing as a kid, and you were being held somewhere against your will, and you were screaming out for someone to rescue you... you'd agree that you should have been given up on as being dead and not worth searching for? Seriously?
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If you had gone missing as a kid, and you were being held somewhere against your will, and you were screaming out for someone to rescue you... you'd agree that you should have been given up on as being dead and not worth searching for? Seriously?
You don't know she is being held.
Now how long doyou think the investigation will go on if no trace of Madeleine is found, or the actual cause of her disappearance ?
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Has the tax payer being paying for this for a crime in another country, over which they have no jurisdiction ?
Yes
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An interesting article on the subject here by former Detective Chief Super Neville Blackwood http://www.open.ac.uk/research/main/news/international-co-operation-crucial-for-solving-crimes-against-britons-abroad
There has been an increase in the numbers of UK police who have “taken to the air” to investigate serious crimes committed against British nationals overseas. Globalisation has encouraged British nationals to travel, work and live abroad, and accordingly, they are involved in more overseas crimes: Foreign & Commonwealth Office statistics for 2012/13 show that 310 Britons were sexually assaulted, 710 went missing, 5,435 were arrested and 6,193 died. In many of these circumstances, and particularly in relation to homicide, there will be an investigative role for UK police.
In most murder cases, a state’s sovereignty and territorial integrity will lead to prosecution in that country in relation to homicide committed against a British national. But the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act stipulates that “where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom … by any subject of Her Majesty [it] may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished … in England or Ireland”. Overseas, a lack of forensic testing around the cause of death in many parts of the developing world and even the European Union may preclude an adequate police investigation. As a result, leverage from the bereaved family and UK coroners may bring about a UK police investigation conducted abroad.
This is often true of more complex cases, such as the 2008 murders of Ben and Catherine Mullany on their honeymoon in Antigua. Following a lengthy inquiry extensively supported by the Metropolitan and South Wales Police, two Antiguan nationals, Avie Howell and Kaniel Martin, were convicted of their murder. This investigation came about as a result of request for assistance by the Antiguan government for the expertise of British Police and at a significant financial cost to the British taxpayer. It was also complicated by Antigua’s continued use of the death penalty for murder. This meant that before British police officers could set foot on Antiguan soil, the British government needed assurances from the Antiguan government that the death penalty would not be enacted in this case.
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if we had to stop one operation.....would it be assange or Maddie...as long as we can spend that sort of money on assange then we can afford op grange
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if we had to stop one operation.....would it be assange or Maddie...as long as we can spend that sort of money on assange then we can afford op grange
The Assange 'case' and the money spent has been totally down the drain .
Done for political expediency by the UK Government because Assange pissed off the Americans.
Has Assange been charged with anything by the way ? 8(*(
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The Mccanns are on record for saying they are in it for the long haul. I don't recall Redwood saying anything like that, although the Home Office have apparently said time and money are not of the essence.
Closing in? What makes you think this? Four years they have been reviewing/investigating.If there was anything significant it will have hit our screens by now.
Not that it is important, but I have concluded that SY is nearer the start, not nearer the end. See my blog if you want details.
Here is the summary. SY activity in 2014.
March. Appeal re burglar assaulting white children.
June. Ground hunt around Luz.
July. Four arguidos, Sergey plus possible 'group of three'.
Oct. Trip to Coimbra to check on forensics route.
Dec. 10 people interviewed as witnesses in Faro. Potential connection covers every possibility going.
That lot is not end-game. It's 4 years in, but it is still looking like working through the basics.
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If what you suggest is true, then they have taken an awful long time to get nowhere.
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If what you suggest is true, then they have taken an awful long time to get nowhere.
How do you know they are nowhere?
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Not that it is important, but I have concluded that SY is nearer the start, not nearer the end. See my blog if you want details.
Here is the summary. SY activity in 2014.
March. Appeal re burglar assaulting white children.
June. Ground hunt around Luz.
July. Four arguidos, Sergey plus possible 'group of three'.
Oct. Trip to Coimbra to check on forensics route.
Dec. 10 people interviewed as witnesses in Faro. Potential connection covers every possibility going.
That lot is not end-game. It's 4 years in, but it is still looking like working through the basics.
The passage of time since Madeleine disappeared must obviously have made the task of the present investigation a very difficult one as well as giving anyone involved over eight years to cover their tracks.
I agree with you that they have had to go right back to basics ... but I think they may have and continue to progress a bit further than you anticipate.
There are huge advantages to the investigation in that the leak 'from sources close to the investigation' has been plugged and if we don't know how far away or close they are neither do the people they are investigating.
I have been following your blog ... very interesting ... particularly regarding the interviewee (?) in SY jurisdiction.
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Not that it is important, but I have concluded that SY is nearer the start, not nearer the end. See my blog if you want details.
Here is the summary. SY activity in 2014.
March. Appeal re burglar assaulting white children.
June. Ground hunt around Luz.
July. Four arguidos, Sergey plus possible 'group of three'.
Oct. Trip to Coimbra to check on forensics route.
Dec. 10 people interviewed as witnesses in Faro. Potential connection covers every possibility going.
That lot is not end-game. It's 4 years in, but it is still looking like working through the basics.
Thanks, you might be right, still, four years with 37 detectives working on a case year round and unlimited funds and working in tandem with another national police police force and who knows maybe other elements seems a long time to be at ground zero/basics
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Not that it is important, but I have concluded that SY is nearer the start, not nearer the end. See my blog if you want details.
Here is the summary. SY activity in 2014.
March. Appeal re burglar assaulting white children.
June. Ground hunt around Luz.
July. Four arguidos, Sergey plus possible 'group of three'.
Oct. Trip to Coimbra to check on forensics route.
Dec. 10 people interviewed as witnesses in Faro. Potential connection covers every possibility going.
That lot is not end-game. It's 4 years in, but it is still looking like working through the basics.
That might be the visible side of a multi-pronged approach though. One searching for immediate red flags (the "investigative component" alluded to during the review), the other going through systematic plod work.
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That might be the visible side of a multi-pronged approach though. One searching for immediate red flags (the "investigative component" alluded to during the review), the other going through systematic plod work.
And no doubt hoping the two might meet.
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And no doubt hoping the two might meet.
It does seem like there was a lot of bluster and not much else
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Thanks, you might be right, still, four years with 37 detectives working on a case year round and unlimited funds and working in tandem with another national police police force and who knows maybe other elements seems a long time to be at ground zero/basics
the case is taking along time because the PJ will not agree to a joint investigation meaning every line of enquiry need an ILOR which has to go through the slow Portuguese courts...which close for the summer
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the case is taking along time because the PJ will not agree to a joint investigation meaning every line of enquiry need an ILOR which has to go through the slow Portuguese courts...which close for the summer
So when the PJ wished to interview members of the T9 in England, are you saying that if the UK had agreed to a joint investigation, the PJ would not have been delayed by having to use International Letters of Request?
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So when the PJ wished to interview members of the T9 in England, are you saying that if the UK had agreed to a joint investigation, the PJ would not have been delayed by having to use International Letters of Request?
I think that is the point of having a joint investigation, Pegasus, a lot of red tape can be bypassed which saves a lot of time. Is there any suggestion that the PJ asked for a joint investigation back in 2007 - 2008?
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It does seem like there was a lot of bluster and not much else
If they are both following different lines of enquiries then no point in having a 'joint' investigation. And besides SY are there on wing and prayer, no one will co operate with them.. like mummie Kate co operated.