UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Alfred R Jones on August 05, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
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For the purposes of clarity, please let it be known that I did not start this thread, it was started by Admin. I am not suggesting that prosecuting historic sex abuse cases are a waste of police funds, nor that the McCann case be wound up because I beleive those culpable to be dead.
For thos complaining about the cost of the Madeleine investigation, what about the cost of investigating historic sex abuse allegations in which the protagonist is already dead and can never be brought to justice?
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For thos complaining about the cost of the Madeleine investigation, what about the cost of investigating historic sex abuse allegations in which the protagonist is already dead and can never be brought to justice?
What about it?
Did all those abuses take place in countries where for example Wiltshire Police have no jurisdiction?
Some hitherto undiscovered protagonists may still be alive.
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What about it?
Did all those abuses take place in countries where for example Wiltshire Police have no jurisdiction?
Some hitherto undiscovered protagonists may still be alive.
Round them up. More strength to your elbow, Scotland Yard !
Let's get them locked away. Keep our children safe.
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What about it?
Did all those abuses take place in countries where for example Wiltshire Police have no jurisdiction?
Some hitherto undiscovered protagonists may still be alive.
Well Ted Heath is definitely dead and the subject of what looks likely to be a lenghty and expensive investigation but I see your objection to the cost of the investigation is to the fact that the "crime" occurred abroad, so if Ted Heath had allegedly abused children whilst on Portuguese soil only, then obviously you'd be complaining about the investigation into his activities, right?
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Well Ted Heath is definitely dead and the subject of what looks likely to be a lenghty and expensive investigation but I see your objection to the cost of the investigation is to the fact that the "crime" occurred abroad, so if Ted Heath had allegedly abused children whilst on Portuguese soil only, then obviously you'd be complaining about the investigation into his activities, right?
Heath is just one of the names.
There are others Alfred.
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Well Ted Heath is definitely dead and the subject of what looks likely to be a lenghty and expensive investigation but I see your objection to the cost of the investigation is to the fact that the "crime" occurred abroad, so if Ted Heath had allegedly abused children whilst on Portuguese soil only, then obviously you'd be complaining about the investigation into his activities, right?
Wrong!
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Wrong!
Why so?
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Why so?
You asked a question I answered it.
Are you now wanting to play twenty* questions until we both get bored ?
*or may be I should have said play 48 questions.
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You asked a question I answered it.
Are you now wanting to play twenty* questions until we both get bored ?
*or may be I should have said play 48 questions.
Yes, that sounds likea good idea for whiling away the day, so once again- why so?
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Yes, that sounds likea good idea for whiling away the day, so once again- why so?
I am going to while away some of the rest of day standing up to my nicky nacky noos in a river waving a stick at some trout.
Catch you rater arrigator.
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I am going to while away some of the rest of day standing up to my nicky nacky noos in a river waving a stick at some trout.
Catch you rater arrigator.
damn, and with that he wriggled off my hook and swam away as fast as his little fins would carry him!
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I am going to while away some of the rest of day standing up to my nicky nacky noos in a river waving a stick at some trout.
Catch you rater arrigator.
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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For thos complaining about the cost of the Madeleine investigation, what about the cost of investigating historic sex abuse allegations in which the protagonist is already dead and can never be brought to justice?
Interesting question Alfred, are you suggesting that the Madeleine investigation should now be abandoned on the basis the perpetrator or perpetrators are deceased?
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Interesting question Alfred, are you suggesting that the Madeleine investigation should now be abandoned on the basis the perpetrator or perpetrators are deceased?
No I'm not, and I'm a bit annoyed that I appear to have started a thread inferring this without my knowledge.
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I would much rather that the police put their resources into investigating live criminals and relatively current crimes
Perhaps the Home Office could consider a special unit to look into historic crime
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I would much rather that the police put their resources into investigating live criminals and relatively current crimes
Perhaps the Home Office could consider a special unit to look into historic crime
I have grave concerns that accusations are being made against people who are unable to defend themselves for the simple reason they are dead.
The implications for the Estate of those accused could have far reaching consequences as in the Savile instances.
I would far prefer that money is ploughed into protecting vulnerable children who are suffering abuse today initially to protect and remove them from it then to address the people perpetrating the abuse with the full force of the law.
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I have grave concerns that accusations are being made against people who are unable to defend themselves for the simple reason they are dead.
The implications for the Estate of those accused could have far reaching consequences as in the Savile instances.
I would far prefer that money is ploughed into protecting vulnerable children who are suffering abuse today initially to protect and remove them from it then to address the people perpetrating the abuse with the full force of the law.
I agree, Brietta. You just beat me too my similar post
The difference between the historic sex abuse cases and Madeleine, is that she is still missing and the police, need to find out what happened.
If and when the mystery is solved, the culprit, (if there is one) will be punished.
If there is a culprit and he is dead, at least we will know what happened to her.
With historic sex abuse cases we already know that the culprits are dead and what allegedly happened. The supposed culprits have no voice with which to defend themselves, if they are dead.
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No I'm not, and I'm a bit annoyed that I appear to have started a thread inferring this without my knowledge.
You can edit the thread opening post at any time, however, the thread can be removed if you so wish?
Posts which stray from the thread topic are removed, merged with another thread or are used to start a new thread. I felt your question merited it own thread in the circumstances.
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I agree, Brietta. You just beat me too my similar post
The difference between the historic sex abuse cases and Madeleine, is that she is still missing and the police, need to find out what happened.
If and when the mystery is solved, the culprit, (if there is one) will be punished.
If there is a culprit and he is dead, at least we will know what happened to her.
With historic sex abuse cases we already know that the culprits are dead and what allegedly happened. The supposed culprits have no voice with which to defend themselves, if they are dead.
Not entirely true.
Nobody ( IE the public) knew about Heath before this week. Its only when investigations are taken seriously that the information becomes public.
While this is important and may tie in with more current investigations, the police should be pursuing live criminals, particularly those who are still committing their crimes.
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Not entirely true.
Nobody ( IE the public) knew about Heath before this week. Its only when investigations are taken seriously that the information becomes public.
While this is important and may tie in with more current investigations, the police should be pursuing live criminals, particularly those who are still committing their crimes.
Has he been proved to be guilty? If so... what now?
I agree that it can sometimes lead to other criminals who are alive, which would be worthwhile if a prosecution was successful.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/edward-heath-child-sex-abuse-claims-convicted-brothel-keeper-myra-lingling-forde-threatened-to-expose-former-tory-prime-minister-10438790.html
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Has he been proved to be guilty? If so... what now?
I agree that it can sometimes lead to other criminals who are alive, which would be worthwhile if a prosecution was successful.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/edward-heath-child-sex-abuse-claims-convicted-brothel-keeper-myra-lingling-forde-threatened-to-expose-former-tory-prime-minister-10438790.html
Has Saville proved to be guilty? Would it have been better if nothing had come out about him?
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Has Saville proved to be guilty? Would it have been better if nothing had come out about him?
Its a pity that the allegations didn't come to light when they were alive, answerable, and could be punished if found guilty. I guess, That's what makes them historic sex abuse cases.
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Its a pity that the allegations didn't come to light when they were alive, answerable, and could be punished if found guilty. I guess, That's what makes them historic sex abuse cases.
Maybe in another 50 years society will be looking to prosecute the guy who took the country into the Iraq war on a false pretext.
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Maybe in another 50 years society will be looking to prosecute the guy who took the country into the Iran war on a false pretext.
We're at war with Iran ?
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Maybe in another 50 years society will be looking to prosecute the guy who took the country into the Iraq war on a false pretext.
Later rather than sooner, seems to be the norm, in many cases.
We should never had been at war with Iraq. The weapons of mass destruction, did not materialise. It was no more than an ally thing.
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We're at war with Iran ?
Seems my tablet thinks so. I have edited the error. 8((()*/
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I have grave concerns that accusations are being made against people who are unable to defend themselves for the simple reason they are dead.
The implications for the Estate of those accused could have far reaching consequences as in the Savile instances.
I would far prefer that money is ploughed into protecting vulnerable children who are suffering abuse today initially to protect and remove them from it then to address the people perpetrating the abuse with the full force of the law.
So you believe Savile had nothing to answer for ?
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Later rather than sooner, seems to be the norm, in many cases.
We should never had been at war with Iraq. The weapons of mass destruction, did not materialise. It was no more than an ally thing.
It was all about protecting the dollar. Sadaam Hussein was going to flog off his oil in Euros which would have damaged the US dollar significantly. If you delve into the sorry mess which the Middle East is nowadays, you will find US vested interest plays a huge part in it.
Somali was Africa's Vietnam. The US has never got over their defeat and humiliation in Mogadishu when they and the UN had to abandon their fortifications.
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It was all about protecting the dollar. Sadaam Hussein was going to flog off his oil in Euros which would have damaged the US dollar significantly. If you delve into the sorry mess which the Middle East is nowadays, you will find US vested interest plays a huge part in it.
Somali was Africa's Vietnam. The US has never got over their defeat and humiliation in Mogadishu when they %#&£and the UN had to abandon their fortifications.
The whole affair was a bloody fiasco. And heads should roll, but as we have been discussing. It will be in 50+ years time and too damned late to help all those who suffered because of governments cockups.
Oops! We appear to have gone Off topic.
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The whole affair was a bloody fiasco. And heads should roll, but as we have been discussing. It will be in 50+ years time and too damned late to help all those who suffered because of governments cockups.
It would appear so, but could the tide be turning? Is power, privilege and celebrity status still an impediment to justice?
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It would appear so, but could the tide be turning? Is power, privilege and celebrity status still an impediment to justice?
I don't think that, that will ever change. That's what power is all about, after all.
So while alive they get away with dodging the system in every possible way.
As has been demonstrated by the now being investigated, historic sex abuse allegations. Too little too late.
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I don't think that, that will ever change. That's what power is all about, after all.
So while alive they get away with dodging the system in every possible way.
As has been demonstrated by the now being investigated, historic sex abuse allegations. Too little too late.
If a former Prime Minister or two can get away with it what hope for us mere mortals?
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If a former Prime Minister or two can get away with it what hope for us mere morsels?
@)(++(* "us mere morsels" @)(++(* Sorry, I know it was probably autocorrect but that made me laff!
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If a former Prime Minister or two can get away with it what hope for us mere mortals?
None whatsoever, Angelo.
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@)(++(* "us mere morsels" @)(++(* Sorry, I know it was probably autocorrect but that made me laff!
Its been a slow day. Corrected ta
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Its a pity that the allegations didn't come to light when they were alive, answerable, and could be punished if found guilty. I guess, That's what makes them historic sex abuse cases.
It is my firm opinion that there is always a danger that Justice may not be best served if there is guaranteed financial compensation to be had in conjunction with trawls using the Moorov Doctrine as a tool.
Don't think it is only the rich dead who may be worth an historical compensation claim ... you may be worth pursuing if you are very much alive and your employer is capable of paying out.
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It is my firm opinion that there is always a danger that Justice may not be best served if there is guaranteed financial compensation to be had in conjunction with trawls using the Moorov Doctrine as a tool.
Don't think it is only the rich dead who may be worth an historical compensation claim ... you may be worth pursuing if you are very much alive and your employer is capable of paying out.
Power, makes all the difference, but not necessarily the power of wealth.
However most of these proved and unproved allegations are directed at the wealthy and famous. Hence the publicity. How many have been found guilty now?
Publicity is less harsh, on the proved allegations of sexual abuse by Mr Joe Common man.
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I see the Jersey children's home has re emerged in the Ted Heath accusations. Isn't is wonderful too how the dead can be accused of just about anything these days?
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I see the Jersey children's home has re emerged in the Ted Heath accusations. Isn't is wonderful too how the dead can be accused of just about anything these days?
Perhaps we might see a re-examination of the coconut shell ?{)(**
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I see the Jersey children's home has re emerged in the Ted Heath accusations. Isn't is wonderful too how the dead can be accused of just about anything these days?
That's been around a long time Angelo.
As have other names.
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Its a pity that the allegations didn't come to light when they were alive, answerable, and could be punished if found guilty. I guess, That's what makes them historic sex abuse cases.
People complained about them when they were alive, but were ignored, weren't they? Aren't Wiltshire police being accused of a cover-up in regard to Heath? Of course that's the other reason to investigate, it seems our Police were less than thorough and we need to know about that too.
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I see the Jersey children's home has re emerged in the Ted Heath accusations. Isn't is wonderful too how the dead can be accused of just about anything these days?
It sounds like Jersey was a holiday resort for Paedophiles from around the UK.....Just like Casa Pia was for the Portugal?
As for the dead being accused....Some would say, that it was because they didn't speak up for themselves.
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Bit strange though how 5 forces are apparently simultaneously carrying out investigations in Heath.
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People complained about them when they were alive, but were ignored, weren't they? Aren't Wiltshire police being accused of a cover-up in regard to Heath? Of course that's the other reason to investigate, it seems our Police were less than thorough and we need to know about that too.
Indeed.
If the allegations are true, members of the 'establishment' have been covering up certain 'activities' for decades.
Think about Thatcher.
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Indeed.
If the allegations are true, members of the 'establishment' have been covering up certain 'activities' for decades.
Think about Thatcher.
I prefer not to.
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Bit strange though how 5 forces are apparently simultaneously carrying out investigations in Heath.
He's an easier target, but his name has been 'around' for years.
There are 'several' other well know names which could well come to the surface.
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I prefer not to.
I can understand why.
She had many things to answer for.
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Yes, I know, but suddenly he's 'outed' by 5 forces apparently working independently.
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Indeed.
If the allegations are true, members of the 'establishment' have been covering up certain 'activities' for decades.
Think about Thatcher.
She wasn't Heath's biggest fan was she?
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She wasn't Heath's biggest fan was she?
Hardly, but a very close friend of Savile.
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Yes, I know, but suddenly he's 'outed' by 5 forces apparently working independently.
Is he merely being used as a diversion from other people ? &%+((£
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Is he merely being used as a diversion from other people ? &%+((£
Could be. Better to implicate a dead person rather than have a live 'brother' prosecuted for the same thing.
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Could be. Better to implicate a dead person rather than have a live 'brother' prosecuted for the same thing.
Oh for God's sake don't mention paedophile gangs and masons if Sadie's about. @)(++(*
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Oh for God's sake don't mention paedophile gangs if Sadie's about. @)(++(*
Sorry 8()-000(
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Historic cases need to be investigated just as much as current ones, as both have victims that need justice.
Investigating old cases, where the police and/or other authorities have failed the victims or, worse, been complicit, also needs to be brought to light.
IMHO.
PS, on the off topic issue of the Iraq war, Jeremy Corbyn has called for Tony Blair to be tried for war crimes if the Chilcot Report (which incidentally Cameron has now demanded a date for) shows he broke international law (as the UN has already stated he has). So, it may not be 50 years after all!
Taking a country to war on false pretences is a huge crime, and that is not counting the fallout whch carries on to this day.
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Historic cases need to be investigated just as much as current ones, as both have victims that need justice.
Investigating old cases, where the police and/or other authorities have failed the victims or, worse, been complicit, also needs to be brought to light.
IMHO.
PS, on the off topic issue of the Iraq war, Jeremy Corbyn has called for Tony Blair to be tried for war crimes if the Chilcot Report (which incidentally Cameron has now demanded a date for) shows he broke international law (as the UN has already stated he has). So, it may not be 50 years after all!
Taking a country to war on false pretences is a huge crime, and that is not counting the fallout whch carries on to this day.
There is no argument from me regarding the first part of your post: particularly when victims of crime have reported offences and been ignored without adequate investigation being carried out.
There is a very fine line indeed between justice being served and justice being abused. You can say what you like about a dead person with impunity ... for the simple reason s\he isn't around to argue the point.
Edward Heath's diary secretary has spoken in his defence; it will be interesting if his diaries match up with times and dates remembered by his accuser.
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There is no argument from me regarding the first part of your post: particularly when victims of crime have reported offences and been ignored without adequate investigation being carried out.
There is a very fine line indeed between justice being served and justice being abused. You can say what you like about a dead person with impunity ... for the simple reason s\he isn't around to argue the point.
Edward Heath's diary secretary has spoken in his defence; it will be interesting if his diaries match up with times and dates remembered by his accuser.
Won't really matter. You know how bad people's memory can be when it comes down to details during traumatic events
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Not entirely true.
Nobody ( IE the public) knew about Heath before this week. Its only when investigations are taken seriously that the information becomes public.
While this is important and may tie in with more current investigations, the police should be pursuing live criminals, particularly those who are still committing their crimes.
You have to be joking jassi.
Heaths interest in boys has been on the internet for years.
And there is something else about him and what happened when he was sailing that I am not going to mention, but if true it is diabolical.
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Maybe in another 50 years society will be looking to prosecute the guy who took the country into the Iraq war on a false pretext.
I would go along with that, but sooner rather than later.
Was he the guy who introduced the one hundred year secrecy Law?
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He's an easier target, but his name has been 'around' for years.
There are 'several' other well know names which could well come to the surface.
Exactly
Even if it is rather late, let's sort them out,
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There is no argument from me regarding the first part of your post: particularly when victims of crime have reported offences and been ignored without adequate investigation being carried out.
There is a very fine line indeed between justice being served and justice being abused. You can say what you like about a dead person with impunity ... for the simple reason s\he isn't around to argue the point.
Edward Heath's diary secretary has spoken in his defence; it will be interesting if his diaries match up with times and dates remembered by his accuser.
There are always going to be chancers, (in these cases despicable IMO) it is up to police to deal with it. You cannot just dismiss all claims and tell people just to go home just because some may be false IMO.
If evidence and proof beyond reasonable doubt is there, IMO it doesn't matter if a person is dead or not.
Diary Secretary? Fat lot of use that is.
PS Not sure why this subject is on the Madeleine board.
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Oh for God's sake don't mention paedophile gangs and masons if Sadie's about. @)(++(*
Too late
I am here ! @)(++(*
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Too late
I am here ! @)(++(*
Greetings 8()-000(
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Edward Heath claims:
Brothel keeper denies accusing former PM
3 hours ago
From the section UK
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/94F1/production/_84692183_84686839.jpg)
A former brothel keeper has denied accusing ex-Prime Minister Edward Heath of involvement in child sexual abuse.
Myra Forde's ex-lawyer says she did not state that the late PM was a client, nor did she threaten to expose him if a prosecution against her was continued.
Forde says she has "no knowledge of any misconduct on his part" and recent media coverage had caused her distress.
The UK's historical child sex abuse inquiry is to examine claims about Sir Edward if "the facts justify it".
The Metropolitan, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Jersey and Kent forces are conducting separate inquiries into the late MP.
The BBC understands Wiltshire Police halted an inquiry into Forde in the 1990s.
Previous convictions
On Monday, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said it would look at whether a case was dropped by Wiltshire Police when a person involved made claims against Sir Edward.
Forde was later convicted of controlling prostitutes after a successful prosecution by the same force.
She was jailed for six years after a trial that included allegations that she had supplied children as young as 13 to her clients.
(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/FF45/production/_84694356_7adbbe52-f500-4239-a63c-ef615ec3ce70.jpg)
Myra Forde was convicted in July 2009 of running a brothel in a residential street in Salisbury
Fourteen years later Forde was prosecuted and jailed again for inciting prostitution.
Richard Griffiths, Forde's solicitor in 1992, has now spoken on her behalf to the Salisbury Journal.
He told the newspaper: "My former client wishes me to make it very clear that at no stage did she state that Ted Heath was a client and at no stage did she threaten to expose him as a client of hers if the prosecution was continued.
"For the avoidance of any doubt, Myra Forde wishes me to make it clear that she had no involvement with Ted Heath of any kind and has no knowledge of any misconduct on his part."
He also said that, at the time of that case, the prosecution "took what, at the time, seemed a sensible decision that they could not prove their case and offered no evidence".
Heath investigations
Operation Midland: The BBC understands Sir Edward is being looked at as part of the operation examining claims that boys were abused by a group of powerful men at locations across southern England and in London in the 1970s and 1980s. It has focused on the Dolphin Square estate in Pimlico, south-west London.
Operation Whistle: The States of Jersey Police has confirmed Sir Edward forms part of its investigation into historical allegations of abuse. It says some of the allegations relate to abuse "within institutions or by people of public prominence".
Operation Hydrant: A nationally co-ordinated exercise to collate all allegations of historical abuse involving high profile-figures. The operation has been notified of Sir Edward being named in connection with an allegation of sexual assault in the 1960s.
Historical child abuse: Key investigations

A spokesman for the UK's ongoing independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, chaired by Justice Lowell Goddard, said that although the allegations about Sir Edward fell within its terms of reference, it had not received any direct allegations.
Sir Edward, who was Conservative prime minister from 1970 to 1974, died aged 89 in 2005 at his home in Salisbury.
Wiltshire Police has declined to comment on the claims that it did not follow up accusations against him during his lifetime, but has appealed for information regarding allegations against Sir Edward.
Meanwhile, Labour MP Tom Watson said he had referred two allegations of child sexual abuse by Sir Edward to the police since 2012, with police confirming that at least one of those allegations was being investigated.
Friends of Sir Edward have dismissed the claims, saying there is not a shred of evidence to link him to abuse.
The Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation, which operates the museum at Arundells, his home in Salisbury, said it "wholeheartedly" believed the investigation would clear Sir Edward's name.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33794974
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I hope that photo of her wasn't taken while within police custody @)(++(*
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You have to be joking jassi.
Heaths interest in boys has been on the internet for years.
And there is something else about him and what happened when he was sailing that I am not going to mention, but if true it is diabolical.
I believe unfortunately Sadie I know what you mean.
There was an unfortunate nickname for his boat by his security officers.
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The boat? News is very busy today. You will have to follow the news link for videos, which are interesting.
Edward Heath: Five Police Forces Investigating
A fifth police force receives allegations against Sir Edward Heath - amid claims the ex-PM took boys from Jersey out on his boat.
14:31, UK, Wednesday 05 August 2015
Five police forces have confirmed they have received allegations of child sex abuse involving the former prime minister Sir Edward Heath.
Police in Jersey, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Kent and London are all investigating allegations involving the former politician.
Late last night, the Hampshire force was the latest to confirm it is looking into allegations made against the former PM.
Earlier, police in Jersey said Sir Edward was being investigated as part of their historical child sex abuse inquiry.
Sir Edward was ousted as Tory leader by Margaret Thatcher in 1975
The disclosure followed claims that he would take children from care homes for a ride in his yacht.
Wiltshire Police, meanwhile, disclosed it has received a number of calls to a helpline it set up appealing for potential victims and witnesses.
Play video "'Police Discovered Lots of Names'"
Video: 'Police Discovered Lots of Names'
Kent Police said it had received a report of a sexual assault against Sir Edward in East Kent in the 1960s.
And the Metropolitan Police is looking into accusations by a man, now aged 65. He claims he was raped at the age of 12 by Sir Edward, in Mayfair, London.
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: "In April 2015 an allegation of rape was made to the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS).
"An officer from Operation Fairbank interviewed the complainant that same month and obtained a full account. Support services were offered.
"However, after a full assessment of the allegation there were no lines of inquiry that could proportionately be pursued by the MPS."
It is also claimed the politician was seen by a Met Police detective going into a north London property where boys were abused in the '70s.
The first allegation against Sir Edward emerged on Monday.
Wiltshire Police disclosed the force was being investigated for failing to handle an apparent allegation made against the politician in the 1990s.
A woman at the centre of the claims has been revealed to be a Filipino prostitute called Myra Ling-Ling Forde - now 67.
According to a retired detective she had been arrested on inciting prostitution charges in the mid 90s but the court case against her was dropped after she threatened to expose Sir Edward as a paedophile.
1/15
Gallery: A Life In Politics: Edward Heath
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, Sir Edward's former principal private secretary, told Sky News the allegations were "absolute nonsense".
But since then further details of claims have emerged including those on Jersey.
In a statement, Jersey Police said: "Sir Edward Heath does feature as part of Operation Whistle, currently investigating historical allegations of abuse in Jersey."
The force says the allegations of abuse involve 13 "people of public prominence".
Many of the claims centre on the Haut de la Garenne children's home, which closed in 1986.
The home was said to have been "frequented" by Jimmy Savile, who has been accused of abusing youngsters there.
US Newsweek reporter Leah Goodman has claimed she was told of allegations against Sir Edward on Jersey in 2011.
But she says she was then thrown out of the UK for investigating them.
She told Sky News: "(Police officers investigating claims at the children's home) had heard the rumours and I know a few of the senior members of the police believed that (Heath) was at it.
"The yachting culture had long been known for bringing boys and other children out on boats into international waters ... murky legalities ... it was a place where it was understood people couldn't escape.
Play video "'There Have Been Rumours'"
Video: 'There Have Been Rumours'
"I know Edward Heath was involved in the yachting culture on the island."
Sir Edward, PM for four years in the 1970s, is the highest-profile figure to be named in historical abuse allegations against prominent figures.
An independent inquiry has been set up into claims public bodies failed to act or attempted to cover up claims against senior politicians.
The inquiry has been told by David Cameron there are no limits to their investigations and officers should "go as high as they like".
The Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation said: "We welcome the investigation by Wiltshire Police, which we wholeheartedly believe will clear Sir Edward's name and we will co-operate fully with the police in their inquiries."
Sir Edward, who led the Conservative government between 1970 and 1974, never married and kept his private life under wraps.
He died at his home in Salisbury aged 89 in July 2005.
:: The NSPCC helpline for the Edward Heath inquiry is 0808 800 5000.
http://news.sky.com/story/1530217/edward-heath-five-police-forces-investigating
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Won't really matter. You know how bad people's memory can be when it comes down to details during traumatic events
No-one is relying on a diary secretary's memory whether traumatised or not.
I think a diary with a record of official engagements contained therein ... all of which are matters of record and can be corroborated ... might carry some weight in an investigation.
If there is any real concern for the truth to be established all available evidence must be open to investigation.
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Edward Heath claims:
Brothel keeper denies accusing former PM
3 hours ago
From the section UK
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/94F1/production/_84692183_84686839.jpg)
A former brothel keeper has denied accusing ex-Prime Minister Edward Heath of involvement in child sexual abuse.
Myra Forde's ex-lawyer says she did not state that the late PM was a client, nor did she threaten to expose him if a prosecution against her was continued.
Forde says she has "no knowledge of any misconduct on his part" and recent media coverage had caused her distress.
The UK's historical child sex abuse inquiry is to examine claims about Sir Edward if "the facts justify it".
The Metropolitan, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Jersey and Kent forces are conducting separate inquiries into the late MP.
The BBC understands Wiltshire Police halted an inquiry into Forde in the 1990s.
Previous convictions
On Monday, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said it would look at whether a case was dropped by Wiltshire Police when a person involved made claims against Sir Edward.
Forde was later convicted of controlling prostitutes after a successful prosecution by the same force.
She was jailed for six years after a trial that included allegations that she had supplied children as young as 13 to her clients.
(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/FF45/production/_84694356_7adbbe52-f500-4239-a63c-ef615ec3ce70.jpg)
Myra Forde was convicted in July 2009 of running a brothel in a residential street in Salisbury
Fourteen years later Forde was prosecuted and jailed again for inciting prostitution.
Richard Griffiths, Forde's solicitor in 1992, has now spoken on her behalf to the Salisbury Journal.
He told the newspaper: "My former client wishes me to make it very clear that at no stage did she state that Ted Heath was a client and at no stage did she threaten to expose him as a client of hers if the prosecution was continued.
"For the avoidance of any doubt, Myra Forde wishes me to make it clear that she had no involvement with Ted Heath of any kind and has no knowledge of any misconduct on his part."
He also said that, at the time of that case, the prosecution "took what, at the time, seemed a sensible decision that they could not prove their case and offered no evidence".
Heath investigations
Operation Midland: The BBC understands Sir Edward is being looked at as part of the operation examining claims that boys were abused by a group of powerful men at locations across southern England and in London in the 1970s and 1980s. It has focused on the Dolphin Square estate in Pimlico, south-west London.
Operation Whistle: The States of Jersey Police has confirmed Sir Edward forms part of its investigation into historical allegations of abuse. It says some of the allegations relate to abuse "within institutions or by people of public prominence".
Operation Hydrant: A nationally co-ordinated exercise to collate all allegations of historical abuse involving high profile-figures. The operation has been notified of Sir Edward being named in connection with an allegation of sexual assault in the 1960s.
Historical child abuse: Key investigations

A spokesman for the UK's ongoing independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, chaired by Justice Lowell Goddard, said that although the allegations about Sir Edward fell within its terms of reference, it had not received any direct allegations.
Sir Edward, who was Conservative prime minister from 1970 to 1974, died aged 89 in 2005 at his home in Salisbury.
Wiltshire Police has declined to comment on the claims that it did not follow up accusations against him during his lifetime, but has appealed for information regarding allegations against Sir Edward.
Meanwhile, Labour MP Tom Watson said he had referred two allegations of child sexual abuse by Sir Edward to the police since 2012, with police confirming that at least one of those allegations was being investigated.
Friends of Sir Edward have dismissed the claims, saying there is not a shred of evidence to link him to abuse.
The Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation, which operates the museum at Arundells, his home in Salisbury, said it "wholeheartedly" believed the investigation would clear Sir Edward's name.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33794974
A Time Lord no less!
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A Time Lord no less!
Yes, Alice, It does indeed read, a bit like that.
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No-one is relying on a diary secretary's memory whether traumatised or not.
I think a diary with a record of official engagements contained therein ... all of which are matters of record and can be corroborated ... might carry some weight in an investigation.
If there is any real concern for the truth to be established all available evidence must be open to investigation.
I was thinking of the witnesses memory, not that of the secretary.
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Mr Heath's Diary is important in this case. Was he where his accusers say he was?
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There are always going to be chancers, (in these cases despicable IMO) it is up to police to deal with it. You cannot just dismiss all claims and tell people just to go home just because some may be false IMO.
If evidence and proof beyond reasonable doubt is there, IMO it doesn't matter if a person is dead or not.
Diary Secretary? Fat lot of use that is.
PS Not sure why this subject is on the Madeleine board.
i dont know either isnt it off topic to boot??
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Mr Heath's Diary is important in this case. Was he where his accusers say he was?
I'm not so sure Elle.... His secretary will put in his diary official engagements only. Not whilst he is sailing or visiting 'friends'. I do not know if the allegations are true or not, but I do believe they should be investigated.
4 Reasons
1. child abuse ruins lives
2. no one should be above the law
3. The police service are paid for by the public to serve the public- they do not get to become judge and jury to *let people off*
4. Powerfull, influencial, political people, can be blackmailed into doing things that are detrimental to our nations moral standing and our security and safety. MI5/6 will know for sure. He made bad descisions as PM, we should think about what pressure was on him to do so.
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I'm not so sure Elle.... His secretary will put in his diary official engagements only. Not whilst he is sailing or visiting 'friends'. I do not know if the allegations are true or not, but I do believe they should be investigated.
4 Reasons
1. child abuse ruins lives
2. no one should be above the law
3. The police service are paid for by the public to serve the public- they do not get to become judge and jury to *let people off*
4. Powerfull, influencial, political people, can be blackmailed into doing things that are detrimental to our nations moral standing and our security and safety. MI5/6 will know for sure. He made bad descisions as PM, we should think about what pressure was on him to do so.
I don't have a problem with investigating Child Sex Abuse. But I do have a problem with investigating Dead People. No real conclusion can be arrived at, while costing probably millions.
And then what? Dig him up? Put him in prison?
Let's see some investigating of these people while they are still alive. They can't all be dead, can they? If there were so many of them.
I suspect a bit of mass hysteria. Find the dead guilty and then we can all go home. That's that problem sorted.
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I don't have a problem with investigating Child Sex Abuse. But I do have a problem with investigating Dead People. No real conclusion can be arrived at, while costing probably millions.
And then what? Dig him up? Put him in prison?
Let's see some investigating of these people while they are still alive. They can't all be dead, can they? If there were so many of them.
I suspect a bit of mass hysteria. Find the dead guilty and then we can all go home. That's that problem sorted.
I said yesterday that the investigation into Heath could be a smokescreen to take attention off those still alive.
Let's see if there any arrests of those currently alive in politics, the media or elsewhere.
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I don't have a problem with investigating Child Sex Abuse. But I do have a problem with investigating Dead People. No real conclusion can be arrived at, while costing probably millions.
And then what? Dig him up? Put him in prison?
Let's see some investigating of these people while they are still alive. They can't all be dead, can they? If there were so many of them.
I suspect a bit of mass hysteria. Find the dead guilty and then we can all go home. That's that problem sorted.
Certainly seems the attitude of the authorities - sacrifice a few dead ones and some aging 'celebrities' to the masses, while concealing those rather nearer nearer to the centre of power.
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I said yesterday that the investigation into Heath could be a smokescreen to take attention off those still alive.
Let's see if there any arrests of those currently alive in politics, the media or elsewhere.
Oh My God. We agree again. We defo need our own Thread, Stephen.
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Certainly seems the attitude of the authorities - sacrifice a few dead ones and some aging 'celebrities' to the masses, while concealing those rather nearer nearer to the centre of power.
But will any of them be exposed? Bearing in mind that the live ones have a nasty habit of fighting back.
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I said yesterday that the investigation into Heath could be a smokescreen to take attention off those still alive.
Let's see if there any arrests of those currently alive in politics, the media or elsewhere.
Probably not. They are having a go at Janner, but by all accounts he is gaga anyway.
As in the case of Madeleine, the police will likely do a competent investigation, but ultimately be unable to bring any prosecution.
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Probably not. They are having a go at Janner, but by all accounts he is gaga anyway.
As in the case of Madeleine, the police will likely do a competent investigation, but ultimately be unable to bring any prosecution.
God, I have truly thought so much about this. I have even managed to create an overall picture in my mind of the phone data and the current Arguidos, and various sexual abuse allegations, albeit not actually historic.
But if they are Arguidos then they don't have to answer question, which I wouldn't be doing if I were them. This could be The End to actually nailing anyone.
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Probably not. They are having a go at Janner, but by all accounts he is gaga anyway.
As in the case of Madeleine, the police will likely do a competent investigation, but ultimately be unable to bring any prosecution.
Has Janner been actually medically diagnosed ?
Remember the case of Earnest Saunders ?
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I believe this was done when the CPS were initially looking at whether to prosecute.
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http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/28/lord-janner-face-trial-dpp-ruling-overturned-sexual-abuse-allegations
Janner is going to be tried
As for Ted Heath, I have read a couple newspaper reports, it seems just one person named him
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http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/28/lord-janner-face-trial-dpp-ruling-overturned-sexual-abuse-allegations
Janner is going to be tried
As for Ted Heath, I have read a couple newspaper reports, it seems just one person named him
Nah,
Seems he was known for it.... but it would be a bit tricky naming the Prime Minister, now wouldn't it?
If you dont believe me, ask stephen. He has known about it for a long time, but of course we must consider him innocent [ I guess ... SIGH] until found guilty.
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Nah,
Seems he was known for it.... but it would be a bit tricky naming the Prime Minister, now wouldn't it?
If you dont believe me, ask stephen. He has known about it for a long time, but of course we must consider him innocent [ I guess ... SIGH] until found guilty.
Hes had ONE accuser
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Hes had ONE accuser
Are you sure?
Some dreadful thing were said about him on the internet. I will not repeat them
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Are you sure?
Some dreadful thing were said about him on the internet. I will not repeat them
This is what the papers say, one accuser of rape, his identity revealed to them through a published in the papers photo, one other accuser, a brothel madam, who alledgedly accused/named him but then said she didnt
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This is what the papers say, one accuser of rape, his identity revealed to them through a published in the papers photo, one other accuser, a brothel madam, who alledgedly accused/named him but then said she didnt
That's what the recent papers said maybe.
What about all the talk when Heath was alive?
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That's what the recent papers said maybe.
What about all the talk when Heath was alive?
I don't know anythng about that, sorry.
Talk is cheap. Politics can be dirty. Benefit of the doubt, and all that.? Look at Cliff Richard? It has gone beyond the ridiculous sometimes.
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I don't know anythng about that, sorry.
Talk is cheap. Politics can be dirty. Benefit of the doubt, and all that.? Look at Cliff Richard? It has gone beyond the ridiculous sometimes.
Ah Cliff Richards.
Now there are some pointers there. Are they correct?
Elm Guest House in London has him signed in. To get the low down on that you only have to google Elm Guest House and Cliff Richards
They say that he has fled the Country to some country where he could not be extradited from. Is it Barbados?
They also say that he was a rent boy himself
Dunno if it is all correct, but some of his mates are a bit iffy
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Ah Cliff Richards.
Now there are some pointers there. Are they correct?
Elm Guest House in London has him signed in. To get the low down on that you only have to google Elm Guest House and Cliff Richards
They say that he has fled the Country to some country where he could not be extradited from. Is it Barbados?
They also say that he was a rent boy himself
Dunno if it is all correct, but some of his mates are a bit iffy
"They"? who would "They" be Sadie? You spend a lot of time defending parents and accusing people of creating myths and here you are...
For the record. Cliff Richard may or may not be a homosexual -he may or may not be a practising homosexual, what that has got to do with anyone I have no idea!
Homosexuality was a criminal act and punishable by a prison sentence not that long ago! so some men socialised at the Elm Guest house in private for fear of being jailed for loving someone! FFS.... it is also reported that another group also had socials at that address- nothing to do with gay males socials.. So your two and two do not make 4.
Historic abuse should be investigated and those caught should be punished! It is very wrong to associate ALL gay men as sexual predators-paedophiles it is like saying all straight men are paedophiles!
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British police drop Cliff Richard case
(http://i.imgur.com/Cc5v4Ht.jpg?1)
By Natasha Donn
20 September 2015
(http://portugalresident.com/sites/default/files/styles/node-detail/public/field/image/cliff-richard_reuters_1200.jpg?itok=Mm2b-lhe)
Exactly a month since he was awarded the Golden Key to the City of Albufeira, iconic British singer Sir Cliff Richard has heard that police investigations into historic allegations that he sexually abused young men are foundering.
A report in today’s Sunday Times claims “one of the three investigations into alleged sex abuse by Sir Cliff Richard has been dropped” while the millionaire star is “understood to have provided police with evidence that he was never alone with two men who allege he attacked them in separate incidents in the 1980s”.
As the ST explains, “the inquiry is said to have foundered because detectives have been unable to substantiate the claims”.
“South Yorkshire Police and a spokesman for Richard declined to comment”, the ST adds, “but the prospect of an end to the 13-month inquiry will be a boost to Richard as he prepares for a UK concert tour to mark his 75th birthday”.
The much-loved star, who is estimated to have sold 250 million records during his incredible 60-year career, was described as devastated last year when police raided his Berkshire home on live TV as he was on holiday in his longtime home-from-home in the Algarve.
Sir Cliff had been given no prior warning of the investigation - operating under the umbrella of Operation Yewtree, the inquiry into allegations of historical sex abuse involving showbiz personalities - and the incident led to a public outcry over the way celebrities were being ‘named and shamed’ long before any claims against them had been proven.
Certainly Albufeira’s most internationally famous home-owner, Sir Cliff had been due to receive the Freedom of the City last year, but pulled out of the ceremony due to the sudden press furore saying he thought his presence might have overshadowed the event.
As it was this year, the award giving went ahead calmly with local mayor Carlos Sousa e Silva saying that Sir Cliff’s “strong contribution” to the town had “played a huge role in establishing it as an international destination”.
The Sunday Times story has now been picked up by the rest of British mainstream media, and is being repeated on news websites around the world.
Seven other celebrities - including comedians Freddie Starr, Jim Davidson and Jimmy Tarbuck, DJ Mike Osman and broadcaster Paul Gambuccini were also accused of offences under Operation Yewtree only to see themselves subsequently exonerated.
A friend talking to the Sunday Times has suggested Sir Cliff’s upcoming tour - due to begin in Birmingham on September 29 and end with five nights at the Royal Albert Hall from October 12 - was a sign that Richard believed he too “would soon be cleared”.
http://portugalresident.com/british-police-drop-cliff-richard-case#sthash.NhrkJKE8.dpuf
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British police drop Cliff Richard case
(http://i.imgur.com/Cc5v4Ht.jpg?1)
By Natasha Donn
20 September 2015
(http://portugalresident.com/sites/default/files/styles/node-detail/public/field/image/cliff-richard_reuters_1200.jpg?itok=Mm2b-lhe)
Exactly a month since he was awarded the Golden Key to the City of Albufeira, iconic British singer Sir Cliff Richard has heard that police investigations into historic allegations that he sexually abused young men are foundering.
A report in today’s Sunday Times claims “one of the three investigations into alleged sex abuse by Sir Cliff Richard has been dropped” while the millionaire star is “understood to have provided police with evidence that he was never alone with two men who allege he attacked them in separate incidents in the 1980s”.
As the ST explains, “the inquiry is said to have foundered because detectives have been unable to substantiate the claims”.
“South Yorkshire Police and a spokesman for Richard declined to comment”, the ST adds, “but the prospect of an end to the 13-month inquiry will be a boost to Richard as he prepares for a UK concert tour to mark his 75th birthday”.
The much-loved star, who is estimated to have sold 250 million records during his incredible 60-year career, was described as devastated last year when police raided his Berkshire home on live TV as he was on holiday in his longtime home-from-home in the Algarve.
Sir Cliff had been given no prior warning of the investigation - operating under the umbrella of Operation Yewtree, the inquiry into allegations of historical sex abuse involving showbiz personalities - and the incident led to a public outcry over the way celebrities were being ‘named and shamed’ long before any claims against them had been proven.
Certainly Albufeira’s most internationally famous home-owner, Sir Cliff had been due to receive the Freedom of the City last year, but pulled out of the ceremony due to the sudden press furore saying he thought his presence might have overshadowed the event.
As it was this year, the award giving went ahead calmly with local mayor Carlos Sousa e Silva saying that Sir Cliff’s “strong contribution” to the town had “played a huge role in establishing it as an international destination”.
The Sunday Times story has now been picked up by the rest of British mainstream media, and is being repeated on news websites around the world.
Seven other celebrities - including comedians Freddie Starr, Jim Davidson and Jimmy Tarbuck, DJ Mike Osman and broadcaster Paul Gambuccini were also accused of offences under Operation Yewtree only to see themselves subsequently exonerated.
A friend talking to the Sunday Times has suggested Sir Cliff’s upcoming tour - due to begin in Birmingham on September 29 and end with five nights at the Royal Albert Hall from October 12 - was a sign that Richard believed he too “would soon be cleared”.
http://portugalresident.com/british-police-drop-cliff-richard-case#sthash.NhrkJKE8.dpuf
strange...not....that there are no cries of how can he be exonerated/cleared when he hasn't been charged
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strange...not....that there are no cries of how can he be exonerated/cleared when he hasn't been charged
Of course Cliff et al have already been tried and found guilty by the online paedo-obsessed mob so it's fair to say that as far as they're concerned he will never be cleared or exonerated.
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Of course Cliff et al have already been tried and found guilty by the online paedo-obsessed mob so it's fair to say that as far as they're concerned he will never be cleared or exonerated.
Ask the in house incumbents what they think?
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Although I agree with the sentiment that historic abuse should be investigated, The MEDIA WERE culpable for accusing- arresting-charging- finding guilty Everyone the police wanted to question. Their handling of this has been shambolic. Taking the BBC to Cliffs house? wtf?
THE Good news is Cliff has not been charged with anything- The bad news is, he is free to go on tour!! God nooooooooooooo crime against humanity that.
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My only concerns about historical prosecutions is the fallibility of memory over time both from accuser and accused PoV. Unless there is more solid evidence than the statements of the accuser and accused, there will always be doubts. Discounting the correctness of prevailing attitudes at the time, prosecuting a 50 year old crime based on modern values seems a little unfair.
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My only concerns about historical prosecutions is the fallibility of memory over time both from accuser and accused PoV. Unless there is more solid evidence than the statements of the accuser and accused, there will always be doubts. Discounting the correctness of prevailing attitudes at the time, prosecuting a 50 year old crime based on modern values seems a little unfair.
I tend to agree.
Back in the sixties at every motor bike grand prix the "stars" trailer park was full of young girls queuing at trailers for "autographs". Similar things prevailed at many venues where pro and semi pro rock and jazz bands played it was all part of a way of life which now is frowned upon.
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My only concerns about historical prosecutions is the fallibility of memory over time both from accuser and accused PoV. Unless there is more solid evidence than the statements of the accuser and accused, there will always be doubts. Discounting the correctness of prevailing attitudes at the time, prosecuting a 50 year old crime based on modern values seems a little unfair.
I agree. Attitudes were very different years ago. Perhaps they should prosecute only the cases which would have been crimes at the time?
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I agree. Attitudes were very different years ago. Perhaps they should prosecute only the cases which would have been crimes at the time?
Homosexuality?
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Homosexuality?
@)(++(* nice one.
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Homosexuality?
If one of the parties was underage at the time, why not?
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If one of the parties was underage at the time, why not?
You can't go around prosecuting people for actions that WERE crimes at the time but which aren't now, don't be silly.
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Would it not be sexual molestation or assault of a minor ? - which is still a crime today.
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Would it not be sexual molestation or assault of a minor ? - which is still a crime today.
Re-read G-Unit's suggestion.
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Homosexuality?
If force was used on anyone that's rape, which was a crime then just as it is now.
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If force was used on anyone that's rape, which was a crime then just as it is now.
Agreed.
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If force was used on anyone that's rape, which was a crime then just as it is now.
Although technically, not so long ago, a husband could force his wife to have sex (in whatever form) and that was legal. Now it is classed as rape. It was also legal to use canes and leather belts to punish children in school. Barbaric!
The historic abuse investigations I am supporting is: actual bodily harm, grooming (offering money,toys,alcohol, drugs) to mentally, physically, sexualy abuse children and rape. I would also include to corrupt children- deny them of their childhood, and adulthood where sexual relations/intimacy can be very difficult, not to mention the continued mental torture during.and many years after the events. Self harming is rife for people affected by sexual abuse.
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The historic abuse investigations I am supporting is: actual bodily harm, grooming (offering money,toys,alcohol, drugs) to mentally, physically, sexualy abuse children and rape. I would also include to corrupt children- deny them of their childhood, and adulthood where sexual relations/intimacy can be very difficult, not to mention the continued mental torture during.and many years after the events. Self harming is rife for people affected by sexual abuse.
Sounds reasonable.