UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on August 06, 2015, 05:22:02 PM
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According to CC Yes - see attachment below. As far as I am aware CC is the only person making this claim?
AE:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3170.0;attach=3162
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According to CC Yes - see attachment below. As far as I am aware CC is the only person making this claim?
AE:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3170.0;attach=3162
If we are to take Colin's recollection at face value, he said that Jeremy thought that his father had been injured when he spoke to him on the phone.
Given that the evidence supports the view that Nevill never phoned Jeremy, don't you think this thread is rather pointless Holly?
Jeremy's story was a fabrication which renders any view he might have had somewhat academic.
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If we are to take Colin's recollection at face value, he said that Jeremy thought that his father had been injured when he spoke to him on the phone.
Given that the evidence supports the view that Nevill never phoned Jeremy, don't you think this thread is rather pointless Holly?
Jeremy's story was a fabrication which renders any view he might have had somewhat academic.
I agree the thread is pointless it could have been tagged on elsewhere but I was just following your earlier request re keeping to topic, retrieving old threads and creating new ones 8)><( 8)><( 8)><(
In the absence of digital/satellite technology it is impossible to say 100% whether the call was made or not. I certainly believe NB called JB.
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I agree the thread is pointless it could have been tagged on elsewhere but I was just following your earlier request re keeping to topic, retrieving old threads and creating new ones 8)><( 8)><( 8)><(
In the absence of digital/satellite technology it is impossible to say 100% whether the call was made or not. I certainly believe NB called JB.
Oh a call was made to Goldhanger alright and answered by Jeremy's ansafone but Nevill was dead by then. The call then being cancelled and the kitchen phone handset left off the hook.
On arriving back in Goldhanger all Jeremy had to do was to wipe the ansafone and phone the police to report the staged call.
Nevill phoning the police was never part of the plan.
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Oh a call was made to Goldhanger alright and answered by Jeremy's ansafone but Nevill was dead by then. On arriving back in Goldhanger all Jeremy had to do was to phone the police and report the call.
What?! What answerphone? How do you know this?
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What?! What answerphone? How do you know this?
Jeremy Bamber had an answerphone, the tapes were taken away by the police for examination.
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And . . . ?
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And . . . ?
As far as I recall nothing unusual could be found but that isn't surprising is it? Jeremy wasn't sure what the BT system recorded back then so he had to dot the i's and cross the t's just in case.
Back to the main topic, Jeremy's comments to police never included any suggestion that Nevill had been shot, was injured or was in pain. Had that been the case then his blood would have been found on or near the kitchen phone.
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I agree the thread is pointless it could have been tagged on elsewhere but I was just following your earlier request re keeping to topic, retrieving old threads and creating new ones 8)><( 8)><( 8)><(
In the absence of digital/satellite technology it is impossible to say 100% whether the call was made or not. I certainly believe NB called JB.
Sorry Holly, it didn't come out the way I had intended. 8(8-)) It might be a pointless discussion but worth having all the same if only to explore the facts.
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As far as I recall nothing unusual could be found but that isn't surprising is it? Jeremy wasn't sure what the BT system recorded back then so he had to dot the i's and cross the t's just in case.
Back to the main topic, Jeremy's comments to police never included any suggestion that Nevill had been shot, was injured or was in pain. Had that been the case then his blood would have been found on or near the kitchen phone.
John I do believe you went off-topic 8)--))
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Sorry Holly, it didn't come out the way I had intended. 8(8-)) It might be a pointless discussion but worth having all the same if only to explore the facts.
That's ok 8((()*/
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If we are to take Colin's recollection at face value, he said that Jeremy thought that his father had been injured when he spoke to him on the phone.
Given that the evidence supports the view that Nevill never phoned Jeremy, don't you think this thread is rather pointless Holly?
Jeremy's story was a fabrication which renders any view he might have had somewhat academic.
If we accept that Jeremy thought his father "sounded" injured -an irony in itself given the mouth injury- does it not make it even MORE strange that rather than reacting immediately and calling 999, he looks up a telephone number, calls it, get no reply, and instead of calling 999, looks up another telephone number. It seems to me that he played out what happened like reading a script verbatim. What he failed to do was experience the emotions -which is maybe why he threw in the "injured" bit as an afterthought to bulk out the story. He gave no indication to the police, when he phoned them, about the pain and fear his father would have been experiencing. As you say, his story was a fabrication.
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If we accept that Jeremy thought his father "sounded" injured -an irony in itself given the mouth injury- does it not make it even MORE strange that rather than reacting immediately and calling 999, he looks up a telephone number, calls it, get no reply, and instead of calling 999, looks up another telephone number. It seems to me that he played out what happened like reading a script verbatim. What he failed to do was experience the emotions -which is maybe why he threw in the "injured" bit as an afterthought to bulk out the story. He gave no indication to the police, when he phoned them, about the pain and fear his father would have been experiencing. As you say, his story was a fabrication.
Which would be a problem for him if he has ASD.
As mentioned elsewhere, without even realising it witnesses of all shapes and forms subtlety augment their stories to fit their belief of what happened.
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Which would be a problem for him if he has ASD.
As mentioned elsewhere, without even realising it witnesses of all shapes and forms subtlety augment their stories to fit their belief of what happened.
I have reason to believe that my late partner had AHD. Whilst it WAS hard for him to recognize emotion -OK, he couldn't!!!- he was a brilliant scientist and he fully understood reason and logic.
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Which would be a problem for himif he has ASD.
As mentioned elsewhere, without even realising it witnesses of all shapes and forms subtlety augment their stories to fit their belief of what happened.
If being the operative word. None of the women he had intimate relationships with said he was 'odd'. An adjective they might use for someone that was displaying signs of ASD at a time when there was a low level of awareness. He also worked in customer facing roles which often presents problems for those with ASD. Again no 'odd' comments.
There's no record of JB saying NB sounded injured anywhere other than Colin's recollections in his book.
- It isn't in any of the police logs.
- None of the police officers at SoC made ref to JB saying he thought NB sounded injured had they have done firearms would have been called earlier along with ambulances. And the raid team would probably have entered sooner.
- It isn't in JB's WS's
- AE made a WS particularly stating she does not recall JB ever saying NB sounded injured
- The prosecution did not make anything of this at trial
It would be interesting to see if it is in CC's WS's.
There does seem to be a preconceived idea that JB staged the phone on the worktop with the prosecution making much of the fact that NB was too badly injured to talk with anyone and had he have handled the handset his blood would have been on it. The defence were very quiet on this point when they could have easily challenged it. NB could quite easily have been on the phone to JB, before any shots had been fired, then heard or seen something that required his immediate attention and left the phone on the worktop intending to resume the conversation.
"People generally see what they look for, and hear what they listen for".
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If being the operative word. None of the women he had intimate relationships with said he was 'odd'. An adjective they might use for someone that was displaying signs of ASD at a time when there was a low level of awareness. He also worked in customer facing roles which often presents problems for those with ASD. Again no 'odd' comments.
There's no record of JB saying NB sounded injured anywhere other than Colin's recollections in his book.
- It isn't in any of the police logs.
- None of the police officers at SoC made ref to JB saying he thought NB sounded injured had they have done firearms would have been called earlier along with ambulances. And the raid team would probably have entered sooner.
- It isn't in JB's WS's
- AE made a WS particularly stating she does not recall JB ever saying NB sounded injured
- The prosecution did not make anything of this at trial
It would be interesting to see if it is in CC's WS's.
There does seem to be a preconceived idea that JB staged the phone on the worktop with the prosecution making much of the fact that NB was too badly injured to talk with anyone and had he have handled the handset his blood would have been on it. The defence were very quiet on this point when they could have easily challenged it. NB could quite easily have been on the phone to JB, before any shots had been fired, then heard or seen something that required his immediate attention and left the phone on the worktop intending to resume the conversation.
"People generally see what they look for, and hear what they listen for".
I think you are thinking of 'odd' in too narrow a sense: being a 'character', being over-confident (unaware of behaving inappropriately) being constantly spontaneous (owing to poor planning skills) leading to being too flash with cash then running out of it, not dealing very well with women expecting him to guess their emotional needs (it's not romantic, but it works better to say exactly what you want, preferably in writing) not learning from past mistakes (cause and effect not being properly linked) causing offence a lot (problematic thinking-through the consequences of actions that involve imagining the unpredictable ways other people may react).
But I agree with the rest, especially the last line. And also CC's knowledge was incomplete when he wrote that book - he clearly hadn't appreciated the depth of experience of life his ex-in-laws had, for example. When we are young we don't look too deeply at others. So I think his story is valuable, but likely not infallible.
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I think you are thinking of 'odd' in too narrow a sense: being a 'character', being over-confident (unaware of behaving inappropriately) being constantly spontaneous (owing to poor planning skills) leading to being too flash with cash then running out of it, not dealing very well with women expecting him to guess their emotional needs (it's not romantic, but it works better to say exactly what you want, preferably in writing) not learning from past mistakes (cause and effect not being properly linked) causing offence a lot (problematic thinking-through the consequences of actions that involve imagining the unpredictable ways other people may react).
But I agree with the rest, especially the last line. And also CC's knowledge was incomplete when he wrote that book - he clearly hadn't appreciated the depth of experience of life his ex-in-laws had, for example. When we are young we don't look too deeply at others. So I think his story is valuable, but likely not infallible.
Could immaturity account for much of JB's behaviour above?
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I'm sure that didn't help: and people were more naive, immature and uninformed generally back then.
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I'm sure that didn't help: and people were more naive, immature and uninformed generally back then.
And deferential! Police officers incl hierarchy to RB; BW to NB and June; jury to expert witnesses, QC's and judge; JB to no one! &%+((£
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