Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: carlymichelle on October 03, 2015, 11:01:20 AM
Title: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 03, 2015, 11:01:20 AM
some people kiss the ground they walk on on for that reason and it makes me wonder why?? if gerry and kate had been poor would mccan supporters have cared about them so much i doubt it?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 03, 2015, 10:24:40 PM
Some people (including the authorities) still give deference to doctors priests lawyers and other such untouchables of years gone by and demonise elsewhere where it suits as they have not caught up yet with the fact that they are no different to anyone else as a human being
As to the law, it's a litle tricker, aka $$$$$ and connections and the right lawyers can do wonders , whereas the great unwashed just get slung into jail and her majesty apparently is always pleased
HMP = her majesty's pleasure LOL
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 03, 2015, 11:16:21 PM
I remember being brought up to 'respect my betters'. That lasted until I realised that respect should be earned, not given to people just because of their job. I have met marvelous medical staff and terrible ones. The terrible ones deserve no respect just because they're medics.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 12:06:44 AM
Being "poor" never stopped people caring about the family of April Jones. It didn't stop the police conducting a very thorough search for the little girl. It didn't stop the police continuing to search for the little girl's remains even when her killer was put behind bars. The hundreds of "poor" parents who continue to suffer because their child is missing should perhaps be thankful that the "rich" McCanns have raised the profile of all missing children. Because of the McCanns, Kerry Needham now has a funded UK police investigation, which probably would never have otherwise been granted. Because of the McCanns, I think many people do care more about what is happening to children in society today. Yet still, in the eyes of some, they are far greater sinners than the Wests or Bradys of this world. Strange & sad.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 12:15:33 AM
Some of what you say is ok some of it utter rubbish In any case you missed the point the OP was trying to make
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2015, 12:15:59 AM
I remember being brought up to 'respect my betters'. That lasted until I realised that respect should be earned, not given to people just because of their job. I have met marvelous medical staff and terrible ones. The terrible ones deserve no respect just because they're medics.
well said g unit so why because they are doctors do people adore them more then they would other parents?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2015, 12:17:08 AM
Some of what you say is ok some of it utter rubbish In any case you missed the point the OP was trying to make
im glad you undeerstand my point this has always been a class issue imo supporters say we are jealous etc im not one bit jealous and im sure others are not either i would rather not have any money then live with what the mcanns caused to maddie
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 12:22:19 AM
im glad you undeerstand my point this has always been a class issue imo supporters say we are jealous etc im not one bit jealous and im sure others are not either
The people who say anyone being critical or suspicious or cynical is because they are jealous because Kate McCann is so graceful and beautiful or because they earn X $$$ or are successful professionals are not worth even replying to as their own thnking is totally warped and false from the start, you really would not want to engage with such vegetative mindsets
Have to go Carly, good op
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 12:30:17 AM
Some of what you say is ok some of it utter rubbish In any case you missed the point the OP was trying to make
No, I didn't miss the point at all. I was merely trying to inject some rationality. People who assume all those who "hero worship" the McCanns simply because they are doctors with a middle class income do Madeleine a disservice. The fact that the McCanns were in a position to use every resource available to help them find their daughter meant that, instead of languishing in a Portuguese jail labelled as child-killers, they were/ are still actively able to promote the search for her. Still, I guess there are those who would rather the name Madeleine McCann was consigned to Portuguese legal history as another Joana Cipriano and Sr Amaral had basked in the glory of achieving a 2nd murder conviction without a corpse as he supped his finest Port in that million Euro retirement home. What price a child's life?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 01:41:56 AM
oh so misty money does matter of keeping oneself out of jail but not a lot in your opinion????
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 02:10:37 AM
oh so misty money does matter of n keeping oneself out of jail but not a lot in your opinion????
The topic is whether the McCanns, as an educated middle-income family, means that people care more about them.
As far as I am aware, people don't usually rally around or fundraise for the more wealthy in society. Compassion & donations are generously proferred to those less fortunate, such as the homeless or infirm.
Do people care more about the funding of Aysha King's proton beam therapy than they do about the thousands who are having their life-prolonging drugs withdrawn because of cost? £250m being spent on 2 new proton beam centres in the UK, which will treat less than 1% of cancer patients suggests they do. I don't see a Twitter campaign objecting to only the select few being granted a get-out-of-cancer-jail-free card - so why object to the money being spent to find Madeleine, irrespective of her parents' status?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: slartibartfast on October 04, 2015, 08:25:26 AM
I think the OP may be looking at the issue of Social Standing rather than wealth?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2015, 08:57:28 AM
I think the OP may be looking at the issue of Social Standing rather than wealth?
exactly my ? was and is if this was a couple on welfare that were alcholics etc that left their kids while they were drinking and one vanished would they defend them like they do the mcanns?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2015, 08:58:22 AM
Being "poor" never stopped people caring about the family of April Jones. It didn't stop the police conducting a very thorough search for the little girl. It didn't stop the police continuing to search for the little girl's remains even when her killer was put behind bars.
The hundreds of "poor" parents who continue to suffer because their child is missing should perhaps be thankful that the "rich" McCanns have raised the profile of all missing children.
Because of the McCanns, Kerry Needham now has a funded UK police investigation, which probably would never have otherwise been granted.
Because of the McCanns, I think many people do care more about what is happening to children in society today. Yet still, in the eyes of some, they are far greater sinners than the Wests or Bradys of this world. Strange & sad.
An excellent post Misty. I totally agree.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: ferryman on October 04, 2015, 09:24:19 AM
Being "poor" never stopped people caring about the family of April Jones. It didn't stop the police conducting a very thorough search for the little girl. It didn't stop the police continuing to search for the little girl's remains even when her killer was put behind bars. The hundreds of "poor" parents who continue to suffer because their child is missing should perhaps be thankful that the "rich" McCanns have raised the profile of all missing children. Because of the McCanns, Kerry Needham now has a funded UK police investigation, which probably would never have otherwise been granted. Because of the McCanns, I think many people do care more about what is happening to children in society today. Yet still, in the eyes of some, they are far greater sinners than the Wests or Bradys of this world. Strange & sad.
The parents of the little girl Peter Voisey abducted (from a bath) lived in a ground-floor flat.
The police implicitly believed the family from first to last ....
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: slartibartfast on October 04, 2015, 12:29:55 PM
??? This sounds a bit [ censored word ]y to me... &%+((£
You mean governments don't bury bad news?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 12:41:05 PM
What sort of 'special treatment' are you talking about carly?
No doubt they had connections in their field of work that helped them, but by 'special treatment' do you mean being invited to visit the Pope for instance?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 12:46:53 PM
Attached to a disgraced former Portuguese policeman, you mean?
Couldn't agree more.
Just pay a visit to the gofundme site and read the messages.
Yes, that's true ferryman, reading the messages to him you would think he was the messiah himself. Yet, he committed perjury, drank whilst driving his children around and wrote a book whilst still employed as a Police Officer. He loved the attention his book give him, signing autographs and mingling with fans as if he was a rock star. Bought himself a flashy car and a glittery earring, the McCann's did none of this but for some reason they are accused of 'living as celebrities' when the only time THEY went to be interviewed was to raise awareness about the disappearance of Madeleine.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: slartibartfast on October 04, 2015, 12:52:10 PM
What sort of 'special treatment' are you talking about carly?
No doubt they had connections in their field of work that helped them, but by 'special treatment' do you mean being invited to visit the Pope for instance?
How about being visited by the British Ambassador the next day?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 12:54:38 PM
How many Britons abroad have had direct contact with Prime Ministers and other higher government officials ?
Can I ask you Stephen who rang who? Did Gerry or Kate McCann get straight onto the phone to Gordon Brown? As a matter of fact it was one of the friends who rang someone else to even get them on Sky news?
If they had contacts as you say they did, then why didn't Gerry McCann get straight onto the phone to Gordon Brown?
I believe the Prime Minister got in touch with April Jones family too.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2015, 01:30:54 PM
Can I ask you Stephen who rang who? Did Gerry or Kate McCann get straight onto the phone to Gordon Brown? As a matter of fact it was one of the friends who rang someone else to even get them on Sky news?
If they had contacts as you say they did, then why didn't Gerry McCann get straight onto the phone to Gordon Brown?
I believe the Prime Minister got in touch with April Jones family too.
The contacts with Blair, Brown and co., have been admitted.
Do you have a cite for the Jones family ?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 03:08:47 PM
Yes, that's true ferryman, reading the messages to him you would think he was the messiah himself. Yet, he committed perjury, drank whilst driving his children around and wrote a book whilst still employed as a Police Officer. He loved the attention his book give him, signing autographs and mingling with fans as if he was a rock star. Bought himself a flashy car and a glittery earring, the McCann's did none of this but for some reason they are accused of 'living as celebrities' when the only time THEY went to be interviewed was to raise awareness about the disappearance of Madeleine.
Does it annoy you? It sounds like it does.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: slartibartfast on October 04, 2015, 03:17:43 PM
Yes, that's true ferryman, reading the messages to him you would think he was the messiah himself. Yet, he committed perjury, drank whilst driving his children around and wrote a book whilst still employed as a Police Officer. He loved the attention his book give him, signing autographs and mingling with fans as if he was a rock star. Bought himself a flashy car and a glittery earring, the McCann's did none of this but for some reason they are accused of 'living as celebrities' when the only time THEY went to be interviewed was to raise awareness about the disappearance of Madeleine.
Very off topic.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 03:42:14 PM
Sorry!!!
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 03:43:59 PM
The contacts with Blair, Brown and co., have been admitted.
Do you have a cite for the Jones family ?
I can't remember where I read it, or if it was the Jones family or another family will have to do a bit of digging.
Anyway, it depended on the Prime Minister at the time, you can hardly say it was because Gerry was a doctor can you, Gordon Brown rang Gerry not the other way round.
The whole idea that the McCann's had special treatment is in my mind ridiculous they were made Arguido's for goodness sake.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 04, 2015, 04:18:40 PM
The McCanns are especially reviled because they are doctors, middle-class and "should have know better". poor dumb working class folk are almost expected to behave in this way by the chattering classes on social media and so don't come in for nearly as much criticism, IMO.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2015, 04:24:07 PM
The McCanns are especially reviled because they are doctors, middle-class and "should have know better". poor dumb working class folk are almost expected to behave in this way by the chattering classes on social media and so don't come in for nearly as much criticism, IMO.
a shocking post reported working class dont leave their children like the mcanns did i suggest everybody report that goading and insulting post
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Mr Gray on October 04, 2015, 04:27:48 PM
The McCanns are especially reviled because they are doctors, middle-class and "should have know better". poor dumb working class folk are almost expected to behave in this way by the chattering classes on social media and so don't come in for nearly as much criticism, IMO.
The McCanns are reviled because they left three small children alone in an unlocked apartment. They would have been reviled for this no matter what class they were or indeed how they earned their weekly crust.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2015, 04:31:55 PM
The McCanns are reviled because they left three small children alone in an unlocked apartment. They would have been reviled for this no matter what class they were or indeed how they earned their weekly crust.
exactly it is not acceptible in any class
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: John on October 04, 2015, 04:37:00 PM
When my kids were small they would go out with us to the entertainment each evening and simply fall asleep in their buggy. I for one would never have dreamt of leaving a young child alone in a holiday apartment no more than I would have left a valuable camera or a wallet but then maybe things have changed since the 80's? Any thoughts guys?
As has been posted many times, Brits seem to leave their common sense at Passport Control!
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
When my kids were small they would go out with us to the entertainment each evening and simply fall asleep in their buggy. I for one would never have dreamt of leaving a young child alone in a holiday apartment no more than I would have left a valuable camera or a wallet but then maybe things have changed since the 80's? Any thoughts guys?
Being responsible for the safety of your children is not a fad or a mindset that changes with the decades It is a duty unaltered by time or circumstance and should be all that matters to a parent.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Mr Gray on October 04, 2015, 04:46:29 PM
When my kids were small they would go out with us to the entertainment each evening and simply fall asleep in their buggy. I for one would never have dreamt of leaving a young child alone in a holiday apartment no more than I would have left a valuable camera or a wallet but then maybe things have changed since the 80's? Any thoughts guys?
As has been posted many times, Brits seem to leave their common sense at Passport Control!
I've done both and so have many others...wouldn't do it now though
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 04:56:00 PM
Being responsible for the safety of your children is not a fad or a mindset that changes with the decades It is a duty unaltered by time or circumstance and should be all that matters to a parent.
If that was indeed the case, one can only wonder why there are not multiple internet campaigns running against all the negligent parents, whose children have suffered injury or death as a result, reported almost daily in the media. The truth is that many people believe the McCanns did something awful to Madeleine and escaped Portuguese justice. Not only that, they were aided & abetted by the British Establishment, who looked after "their own" purely because of the McCanns social status. It's never really been about the negligence issue.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 05:00:02 PM
Being responsible for the safety of your children is not a fad or a mindset that changes with the decades It is a duty unaltered by time or circumstance and should be all that matters to a parent.
They did leave their children Faithlilly, something they have said they regret and they are being haunted with every day of their lives. Isn't that enough for some? For what reason do people want to keep having a go at them for it? if not to just make their agony worse. Does it feel good to rub salt in their wounds all the time, do you think the McCann's have forgotten about what they did? Or do you think the fact that their daughter is not with them anymore enough of a reminder?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 04, 2015, 05:04:45 PM
If that was indeed the case, one can only wonder why there are not multiple internet campaigns running against all the negligent parents, whose children have suffered injury or death as a result, reported almost daily in the media. The truth is that many people believe the McCanns did something awful to Madeleine and escaped Portuguese justice. Not only that, they were aided & abetted by the British Establishment, who looked after "their own" purely because of the McCanns social status. It's never really been about the negligence issue.
What do you believe "it is about" then?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 05:04:56 PM
When my kids were small they would go out with us to the entertainment each evening and simply fall asleep in their buggy. I for one would never have dreamt of leaving a young child alone in a holiday apartment no more than I would have left a valuable camera or a wallet but then maybe things have changed since the 80's? Any thoughts guys?
As has been posted many times, Brits seem to leave their common sense at Passport Control!
I have seen many a parent, leave their children by the pool whilst they sit and have a drink and read a book, whose to say they won't wander off or drown in the pool?
I see parents leaving their children in tents whilst they go off socialising with other families in other tents or caravans, no lock on tent doors.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Lace on October 04, 2015, 05:08:59 PM
I think it starts with the 'leaving the children' then they hook onto the theory of Amaral, then it's 'those evil negligent McCann's' everything possible has been said about them on twitter and face book, such as 'look at them laughing days after Madeleine went missing' 'look at them behaving like celebrities' 'look at all the money they've conned out of the public, fraudulent fund, Madeleine's dead, they know where she is, they are stealing money. The government, the secret service, royalty their all in on it!!!!
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 04, 2015, 05:14:53 PM
The McCanns are reviled because they left three small children alone in an unlocked apartment. They would have been reviled for this no matter what class they were or indeed how they earned their weekly crust.
Lots of parents have done far worse and we don't se 8 years worth of online carping about it do we?? Why not?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2015, 05:33:14 PM
Mainly because they disappear from view and don't have a PR machine promoting them
Yes, there might be something in that - many people hate the fact that they have used the media to keep the case high profile and would prefer it if they had less to say for themselves, and if we could all have been allowed to forget that Madeleine ever existed.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2015, 05:44:30 PM
I can't remember where I read it, or if it was the Jones family or another family will have to do a bit of digging.
Anyway, it depended on the Prime Minister at the time, you can hardly say it was because Gerry was a doctor can you, Gordon Brown rang Gerry not the other way round.
The whole idea that the McCann's had special treatment is in my mind ridiculous they were made Arguido's for goodness sake.
Being made arguido's was a consequence of normal investigative procedure.
Being contacted by Blair or his wife, ditto the Brown's, is not normal behaviour, unless you are seriously trying to contend every Briton in troiuble abroad gets contacted at the highest level of government. 8**8:/:
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 04, 2015, 06:17:17 PM
Being made arguido's was a consequence of normal investigative procedure.
Being contacted by Blair or his wife, ditto the Brown's, is not normal behaviour, unless you are seriously trying to contend every Briton in troiuble abroad gets contacted at the highest level of government. 8**8:/:
I can't remember the last politician we had that could be described as a statesman. The McCann case has always been high profile since 4th May 2007. Blair Brown and Cameron are/were to an extent lightweights and would become involved in anything and have an opinion on anything just to gain publicity. Maybe chicken and egg here ? Don't forget what Gerry said in his statement to Leveson, how they had used the media through John Corner, early doors.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: slartibartfast on October 04, 2015, 07:18:23 PM
I have seen many a parent, leave their children by the pool whilst they sit and have a drink and read a book, whose to say they won't wander off or drown in the pool?
I see parents leaving their children in tents whilst they go off socialising with other families in other tents or caravans, no lock on tent doors.
Slippery Slope Fallacy.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 07:30:38 PM
I have seen many a parent, leave their children by the pool whilst they sit and have a drink and read a book, whose to say they won't wander off or drown in the pool?
I see parents leaving their children in tents whilst they go off socialising with other families in other tents or caravans, no lock on tent doors.
Have you seen parents taking their attention off 3 under 5's? Leaving 3 under 5's? what are these people on?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Have you seen parents taking their attention off 3 under 5's? Leaving 3 under 5's? what are these people on?
If you safeguard your two and three year olds youre called a helicopter parent in some parts, it just is not the same as leaving older children alone
Some have even posted its good for them developing independence and other such claptrap...I do agree that harping on about a known fact forever doesn't help, but if people post that it was perfectly normal to leave toddlers on their own AND in an insecure dwelling, out of sight and hearing,well, they ask for it IMO
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 07:45:46 PM
How do so many parents manage to run over their own children on the home driveway?
You seem to be saying that if it is ok to leave children in a tent and go to the next tent, it is Ok to leave children in an unlocked apartment and go out for a meal in the same vein it must be ok to leave children in a town centre while you go to a restaurant.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 08:08:04 PM
You seem to be saying that if it is ok to leave children in a tent and go to the next tent, it is Ok to leave children in an unlocked apartment and go out for a meal in the same vein it must be ok to leave children in a town centre while you go to a restaurant.
No, I'm not. What I'm saying is it only takes a moment of negligence to produce catastrophic results. Risk assessment. How many children have ever been abducted from a holiday apartment after being left alone by their parents? Zero, before Madeleine (if abduction was indeed the crime) How many children have been abducted from town centres, accompanied or otherwise? Several.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 08:16:51 PM
Giving examples of the behaviour of other careless parents doesn't somehow excuse the behaviour of the McCanns. It just shows that there's other careless parents out there.
I loved reading, but with three children under 5 I didn't pick up a book for years. Small children are a full-time job. If there's a pool nearby you watch them all the time. If you're in a crowded place you hold onto them.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2015, 08:29:32 PM
No, I'm not. What I'm saying is it only takes a moment of negligence to produce catastrophic results. Risk assessment. How many children have ever been abducted from a holiday apartment after being left alone by their parents? Zero, before Madeleine (if abduction was indeed the crime) How many children have been abducted from town centres, accompanied or otherwise? Several.
So why would you ever leave children alone in a foreign country ?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 08:34:33 PM
Giving examples of the behaviour of other careless parents doesn't somehow excuse the behaviour of the McCanns. It just shows that there's other careless parents out there.
I loved reading, but with three children under 5 I didn't pick up a book for years. Small children are a full-time job. If there's a pool nearby you watch them all the time. If you're in a crowded place you hold onto them.
You could read when the children were tucked up in bed, presumably safe & sound from the risk of an abductor entering the premises. Of course, there is always a risk that a 4 year old will come downstairs, leaving the safety gate open at the top of the stairs....and it's too late when the 2 year old trips down, head first. So I guess you sit at the top of the stairs all night - right? You keep the pills, sharp objects, electrical goods, matches, out of reach. You just don't expect someone to illegally access your home & steal your child.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: slartibartfast on October 04, 2015, 08:44:52 PM
You could read when the children were tucked up in bed, presumably safe & sound from the risk of an abductor entering the premises. Of course, there is always a risk that a 4 year old will come downstairs, leaving the safety gate open at the top of the stairs....and it's too late when the 2 year old trips down, head first. So I guess you sit at the top of the stairs all night - right? You keep the pills, sharp objects, electrical goods, matches, out of reach. You just don't expect someone to illegally access your home & steal your child.
As you say, it is called risk assessment. An abduction wasn't the biggest risk by any means, the biggest risks would be fire, poisoning, electrocution and falls. (Not necessarily in that order). Half hour checks do not mitigate those risks.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 09:06:05 PM
So why would you ever leave children alone in a foreign country ?
I would have considered Madeleine was more at risk on the sailing trip than being left for a short while asleep in her bed, because the danger was far more obvious. Then again - I never liked my children being around people who were drinking alcohol.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 09:16:28 PM
You could read when the children were tucked up in bed, presumably safe & sound from the risk of an abductor entering the premises. Of course, there is always a risk that a 4 year old will come downstairs, leaving the safety gate open at the top of the stairs....and it's too late when the 2 year old trips down, head first. So I guess you sit at the top of the stairs all night - right? You keep the pills, sharp objects, electrical goods, matches, out of reach. You just don't expect someone to illegally access your home & steal your child.
I was replying to the post saying parents read by the pool and don't watch their children. OK if they're 10, not if they're under 5.
Accidents in the home don't occur because of negligence, that's why they're called accident. If my two year old fell headfirst down the stairs when I was eating out, that would be negligent.
Abduction isn't the only reason why people shouldn't leave small children home alone. Making excuses for that negligent behaviour is very irresponsible.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 09:18:33 PM
I would have considered Madeleine was more at risk on the sailing trip than being left for a short while asleep in her bed, because the danger was far more obvious. Then again - I never liked my children being around people who were drinking alcohol.
So did you stay in, get a babysitter or leave them home alone so they wouldn't see drunken people?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 09:28:04 PM
So did you stay in, get a babysitter or leave them home alone so they wouldn't see drunken people?
Usually I stopped in. My youngest was difficult to settle for a long time & would scream the place down if left with someone else. Drunken people can be very frightening to young children - as can elderly grandparents who really shouldn't be allowed to drive, let alone with young children in the car. Danger & risk is everywhere. Different people have different perceptions of what constitutes real danger. A group of 9 didn't see the dangers listed as high risk and I don't suppose abduction even featured in their minds.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 09:32:57 PM
Usually I stopped in. My youngest was difficult to settle for a long time & would scream the place down if left with someone else. Drunken people can be very frightening to young children - as can elderly grandparents who really shouldn't be allowed to drive, let alone with young children in the car. Danger & risk is everywhere. Different people have different perceptions of what constitutes real danger. A group of 9 didn't see the dangers listed as high risk and I don't suppose abduction even featured in their minds.
Abduction never entered my mind either, but I didn't leave my 3 under 5's home alone nevertheless. It really isn't right to make excuses for them, misty.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 09:47:04 PM
Abduction never entered my mind either, but I didn't leave my 3 under 5's home alone nevertheless. It really isn't right to make excuses for them, misty.
The children weren't "home alone", that is what the area of negligence refers to. There have been too many cases of true abandonment/neglect/abuse in recent years to quote here, suffice to say none of them have been the subject of continual abusive bombardment of the guilty. Did the McCanns get special treatment because they were doctors? I don't call the treatment they have received from the Great British public "special". Do you? Had this incident happened in the UK, how much "special treatment" would they have received or warranted from the upper echelons?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 09:49:37 PM
Abduction never entered my mind either, but I didn't leave my 3 under 5's home alone nevertheless. It really isn't right to make excuses for them, misty.
You sound as if you were the perfect parent G-Unit. Did you never make a mistake? I made loads. Not because I was negligent - but because I am human - and most of the time a very tired human due to lack of sleep.
Hundreds of children die every year because their loving parents made a human error. I don't think of them as negligent - even if in theory they were. I have the utmost sympathy for them and am just grateful that none of the mistakes I made resulted in tragedy.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2015, 10:01:38 PM
I suppose they had each other then, apart from that, yes, they were home alone
i dont understadnd why people think it is ok to leave children home alone they dont takke into consideration maddies eotional well being here its always gerry and kate
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 10:12:03 PM
i dont understadnd why people think it is ok to leave children home alone they dont takke into consideration maddies eotional well being here its always gerry and kate
No sane parent who doesn't want to take any unnecessary risks leaves babies alone, older chldren for short times yes, but not 2 and 3 year olds, there is no excuse...I personally couldn't sit at a restaraunt enjoying myself not knowing if they were safe/supervised
My last post on the subject
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Benice on October 04, 2015, 10:15:52 PM
i dont understadnd why people think it is ok to leave children home alone they dont takke into consideration maddies eotional well being here its always gerry and kate
The thousands of parents on holiday who have gone to dinner leaving their children asleep alone in their apartments would disagree with you. Especially those who are still doing it.
Their decision to do that has nothing to do with the McCanns. In fact the McCanns were not even born when that practice began.
I'm still waiting for just one sceptic to acknowledge the existence of those thousands of parents - instead of behaving as if the McCanns were the only people on the planet to leave their children fast asleep in bed and sit less than a minute away from them - with regular checks taking place.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 10:27:21 PM
I suppose they had each other then, apart from that, yes, they were home alone
Both the Portuguese & UK legal system confirmed the parents were not guilty of neglect/abandonment. Can you not accept the legal position & move on from it?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 04, 2015, 10:30:46 PM
The thousands of parents on holiday who have gone to dinner leaving their children asleep alone in their apartments would disagree with you. Especially those who are still doing it.
Their decision to do that has nothing to do with the McCanns. In fact the McCanns were not even born when that practice began.
I'm still waiting for just one sceptic to acknowledge the existence of those thousands of parents - instead of behaving as if the McCanns were the only people on the planet to leave their children fast asleep in bed and sit less than a minute away from them - with regular checks taking place.
What if there's a burglary?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 10:38:00 PM
Both the Portuguese & UK legal system confirmed the parents were not guilty of neglect/abandonment. Can you not accept the legal position & move on from it?
I personally have never said they were guilty of neglect or abandonment...in fact I posted years ago that I was bored with the discussion and that people should move on....as there was no point going over and over the same thing...though I still post on it sometimes if people say it was Ok ...which it was most certainly not..for a variety of reasons....the Mccanns still say in interviews**** it was...like do they like rubbing people up the wrong way or what? iVe no idea what went on or goes on in their minds and rather wouldn't know either tbh
****
and what was all the talk from the pair of them about feeling gulty that they weren't there "at the moment" (and so emphasised) MM was taken.....that doesn't quite cut it when compared to people sayng they regret leaving their kids alone..I never did quite get that emphasis
Example: at approx 7.40 minutes here
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 10:41:44 PM
Life is full of "what ifs", Pegasus. What if the parents had been asleep in their bedroom, comatose after too much wine, and the place was burgled/ Madeleine went missing? Would the scene the following morning have been any different to the one discovered at 10pm?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Benice on October 04, 2015, 10:44:16 PM
Ask the thousands of parents who have decided that it's OK to sign up for the Listening Service, or who use Baby alarms when they go to dinner. Most parents going on holiday don't draw up a list of tragedies which could befall them. Even the thought of the plane crashing doesn't deter them let alone a burglary.
No-one can guard against everything that it is possible could go wrong. That's simply not how human beings think or operate. For anyone to expect the McCanns to be any different is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: mercury on October 04, 2015, 10:47:43 PM
Ask the thousands of parents who have decided that it's OK to sign up for the Listening Service, or who use Baby alarms when they go to dinner. Most parents going on holiday don't draw up a list of tragedies which could befall them. Even the thought of the plane crashing doesn't deter them let alone a burglary.
No-one can guard against everything that it is possible could go wrong. That's simply not how human beings think or operate. For anyone to expect the McCanns to be any different is a mystery to me.
Babies normally sleep in their cot or sit in their cot and cry, they're simple, they can't get up and move around...leaving toddlers to their own devices is negligent behaviour even if it isn't "neglect"
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 04, 2015, 10:59:06 PM
Life is full of "what ifs", Pegasus. What if the parents had been asleep in their bedroom, comatose after too much wine, and the place was burgled/ Madeleine went missing? Would the scene the following morning have been any different to the one discovered at 10pm?
If there had been an attempted burglary via the child bedroom window while the parents were asleep in the other bedroom, the scared child would have simply run to that other bedroom and woken the parents, and all would have been fine.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2015, 11:02:12 PM
On and on it goes. A complete refusal to accept that the Mccanns contributed to whatever happened to Madeleine. If they did what they have said they did they behaved badly by leaving their children alone in an unlocked apartment night after night.
None of their friends left their apartments unlocked. None of the other holiday makers left their children alone in their apartments. Being 'a minute' away means nothing if you can't see or hear what's happening, you may as well be a mile away.
Leaving children in a hotel room or in a secure holiday place with regular listening checks is another thing altogether - especially as the children are usually locked in the rooms. If there are thousands of other Brits doing exactly the same as the Mccanns did we should be ashamed. We are already seen as the worst parents in Europe, and have been for years.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 11:21:59 PM
Now you've moved the goalposts. You said burglary, not attempted burglary. There was no evidence an intruder had entered the McCann apartment via the window, yet the window was open & the shutters up. How did the burglar get in? There was no evidence Madeleine had fled from her bedroom, stopping to look in her parents' bedroom. There was no evidence she had fled from the apartment.
How would that have looked the following morning if the parents had slept through whatever occurred?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 04, 2015, 11:31:46 PM
Now you've moved the goalposts. You said burglary, not attempted burglary. There was no evidence an intruder had entered the McCann apartment via the window, yet the window was open & the shutters up. How did the burglar get in? There was no evidence Madeleine had fled from her bedroom, stopping to look in her parents' bedroom. There was no evidence she had fled from the apartment.
How would that have looked the following morning if the parents had slept through whatever occurred?
Every good Misty you are right, because on seeing a child running out the room, obviously a burglar would not climb in, so thanks, I'll rephrase it... What if there was an attempted burglary while the parents were eating at a restuarant?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 04, 2015, 11:38:45 PM
Every good Misty you are right, because on seeing a child running out the room, obviously a burglar would not climb in, so thanks, I'll rephrase it... What if there was an attempted burglary while the parents were eating at a restuarant?
Then we need to move to the correct thread.......
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 04, 2015, 11:45:25 PM
IMO the parents did not get any special treatment directly because they were doctors. They got special treatment by the coincidence that they happened to know people, who knew people, who had the money and contacts to provide an unusual level of special treatment, with the best of intentions.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 05, 2015, 12:02:14 AM
IMO the parents did not get any special treatment directly because they were doctors. They got special treatment by the coincidence that they happened to know people, who knew people, who had the money and contacts to provide an unusual level of special treatment, with the best of intentions.
I think that is a fairly accurate summary of the scope of UK help the group were able to secure. It is also, imo, the very reason they were treated in a less than special way by certain elements within the Portuguese police.
I do not think they would have been received any more special treatment had they been asleep in bed - imo it would have been much more difficult for them to have demonstrated their innocence.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 05, 2015, 12:32:37 AM
I think that is a fairly accurate summary of the scope of UK help the group were able to secure. It is also, imo, the very reason they were treated in a less than special way by certain elements within the Portuguese police.
I do not think they would have been received any more special treatment had they been asleep in bed - imo it would have been much more difficult for them to have demonstrated their innocence.
As per thread title, the special treatment was for two people, not for the other seven - no-one provided a Foreign Office employee, lawyers and a PR company for them.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 05, 2015, 12:41:09 AM
As per thread title, the special treatment was for two people, not for the other seven - no-one provided a Foreign Office employee, lawyers and a PR company for them.
I meant the special assistance was obtained by a group effort but for the benefit of the McCanns. Don't under-estimate the silent role OC may have played in proceedings, either - their reputation was at stake.
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: Brietta on October 05, 2015, 12:53:25 AM
I meant the special assistance was obtained by a group effort but for the benefit of the McCanns. Don't under-estimate the silent role OC may have played in proceedings, either - their reputation was at stake.
Excellent point about OC involvement, Misty. Weren't they among the first to fly people in to help?
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: misty on October 05, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
Excellent point about OC involvement, Misty. Weren't they among the first to fly people in to help?
I believe they were, having a special department to deal with corporate crises of this nature. I will have to have a look for the names (too many balls in the air at one time here right now)
Title: Re: did the mcanns get special treatment by some because they are doctors
Post by: pegasus on October 05, 2015, 01:14:01 AM
I believe they were, having a special department to deal with corporate crises of this nature. I will have to have a look for the names (too many balls in the air at one time here right now)
BP maybe, but special treatment from the Foreign Office IFLG and CR was nothing to do with the holiday company. IMO it was just coincidence of who knew who back in the UK. They knew someone who occasionally passed in the street a relative of someone who worked for TB. They knew someone who worked at a legal organisation. Etc. All done with the very best of intentions by friends and relatives just trying to help.