Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: misty on October 21, 2015, 09:15:06 PM
Title: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 21, 2015, 09:15:06 PM
Since it was started on April 29, 2015, by Leanne Baulch, the gofundme page dedicated to Gonçalo Amaral's defence has collected donations in excess of 50 thousand pounds. These funds have been transferred to the bank account that is held by Dr Paulo Sargento and other friends of Mr Amaral. Less than half of this amount has been spent on legal expenses for the defence of Gonçalo Amaral.
The Paypal account that is associated to the bank account has received over 6 thousand euro during the same period. Donations totaling a smaller amount have also been made directly to the bank account.
We believe that it is time to close the gofundme page, as the bank account currently stands at an amount that seems largely sufficient to face eventual future expenses. As we await the verdict of the Appellate Court of Lisbon on the appeal that has been filed by Mr Amaral's lawyer, the remaining funds will be kept in the bank account. They will be used if necessary in the future. Any unused funds will, as we stated in 2009, be donated to a Portuguese children's charity. May we use this moment to wholeheartedly thank those who have expressed their support of Gonçalo Amaral's right to an appropriate defence? Whether you have contributed financially or by sending a support message - you have made an impact. You have made a difference. Thank you so very, very much.
The gofundme page will be closed on the 28th of October, 2015. Posted by Kazlux at Wednesday, October 21, 2015 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmmm.
270
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on October 21, 2015, 09:18:44 PM
strange..is this an admission that it is all over
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on October 21, 2015, 09:19:03 PM
What a lovely message, thanks Misty. Seems the purpose of the appeal has been fulfilled so no need to carry on regardless with the donate button.
Cool!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 21, 2015, 09:25:12 PM
I have no reason to Youre the one assuming there's somethng there ready to hatch that is NOT to do with lawyers fees plus surplus to charity...lol Time will tell IF your suspcions and aspersions are right....and if they are not? You going to apologise? Or at least say I was wrong?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 21, 2015, 09:34:22 PM
I have no reason to Youre the one assuming there's somethng there ready to hatch that is NOT to do with lawyers fees plus surplus to charity...lol Time will tell IF your suspcions and aspersions are right....and if they are not? You going to apologise? Or at least say I was wrong?
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm wrong less than I'm right, but there's no shame in not being perfect. I perhaps would apologise if I could but I've no idea who to apologise to, so secret is the GGFM appeal. BTW - how do you edit your posts without the "last edited" statement appearing at the bottom?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Eleanor on October 21, 2015, 10:24:12 PM
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm wrong less than I'm right, but there's no shame in not being perfect. I perhaps would apologise if I could but I've no idea who to apologise to, so secret is the GGFM appeal. BTW - how do you edit your posts without the "last edited" statement appearing at the bottom?
If it is done within a short space of time of posting it goes unregistered. I'm not sure how long.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 21, 2015, 10:25:21 PM
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm wrong less than I'm right, but there's no shame in not being perfect. I perhaps would apologise if I could but I've no idea who to apologise to, so secret is the GGFM appeal. BTW - how do you edit your posts without the "last edited" statement appearing at the bottom?
Fair enough, no big deal, long as you're honest with your opnions not a problem
As for edited posts, not sure what you are asking. You can edit your posts to either correct spelling, delete words or whole sentences or add them, anywhere in the post. Oh hang on, I know what you mean now, you have a short period of time after posting, to edit the post and no "edited post" message appears on the bottom...not sure how long it is but no more than a couple of minutes max
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: John on October 22, 2015, 04:29:39 PM
Since it was started on April 29, 2015, by Leanne Baulch, the gofundme page dedicated to Gonçalo Amaral's defence has collected donations in excess of 50 thousand pounds. These funds have been transferred to the bank account that is held by Dr Paulo Sargento and other friends of Mr Amaral. Less than half of this amount has been spent on legal expenses for the defence of Gonçalo Amaral.
The Paypal account that is associated to the bank account has received over 6 thousand euro during the same period. Donations totaling a smaller amount have also been made directly to the bank account.
We believe that it is time to close the gofundme page, as the bank account currently stands at an amount that seems largely sufficient to face eventual future expenses. As we await the verdict of the Appellate Court of Lisbon on the appeal that has been filed by Mr Amaral's lawyer, the remaining funds will be kept in the bank account. They will be used if necessary in the future. Any unused funds will, as we stated in 2009, be donated to a Portuguese children's charity. May we use this moment to wholeheartedly thank those who have expressed their support of Gonçalo Amaral's right to an appropriate defence? Whether you have contributed financially or by sending a support message - you have made an impact. You have made a difference. Thank you so very, very much.
The gofundme page will be closed on the 28th of October, 2015. Posted by Kazlux at Wednesday, October 21, 2015
It is good to see that the Portuguese who now control this account and the funds therein have at last saw fit to respond to calls for an update.
Some additional information now being provided on the GoFundMe page...
PJGA was founded as a quest for justice and backed by supporters from all over the globe, in solidarity, friendship and above all, in the interest of furthering the investigation of the case into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Within this scope, with the relentless support of those who will not let this case pass into obscurity, who do not tolerate the leaving of unanswered questions, there are many who follow Amaral’s dissatisfaction, and whom, like him, urge for the day the truth, or some more of it will emerge.
During the last months of 2009, a group of Gonçalo Amaral friends realised that it would be impossible for him to face the costs of his defence in the civil suit that was filed against him personally – as well as against others – brought by the McCann couple and their children, in response to his book “Maddie, A Verdade Da Mentira”.
Lawsuits in Portugal are expensive, like anywhere else in the world, and the Portuguese State will only help funding legal costs if one is completely destitute. With part of his pension and the total of his assets frozen, Gonçalo Amaral would not be able to cover the legal expenses; what was left of his pension was barely enough to meet everyday living costs, but it was more than enough for the State to refuse financial support.
Therefore, his friends decided to open a private bank account, where funds would be kept to pay, whenever necessary and whenever possible, expenses that were presented by Mr Amaral’s lawyer. Projecto Justiça Gonçalo Amaral was born out of solidarity and friendship.
The trial is ongoing, since 2009, nothing has changed, pending final judgment. We continue to accept your donations only into this one bank account and we continue to meet only legal expenses out of that very same account.
If any funds are left unused, they will be donated to a Portuguese children’s charity, according to Gonçalo Amaral’s wishes.
There are many ways to contribute to this Project. You can help by spreading information about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann by highlighting the Case File information. You can help by voicing your support for freedom of expression and freedom of opinion. You can help by supporting Gonçalo Amaral’s defence account.
We trust that Justice will be served.
Thank you.
https://www.gofundme.com/Legal-DefencePJGA
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Eleanor on October 22, 2015, 04:41:07 PM
What is left of Amaral's Pension is more than twice as much as I have to manage on with my State Pension. So I don't know what they mean by barely enough to meet his everyday living costs.
PS. And I'm not complaining.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 22, 2015, 05:06:22 PM
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 12:16:52 AM
It seems that a handful of people don't want to admit that there is a huge amount of support for Mr Amaral in both the UK and Portugal and therefore are claiming that the £50K+ raised by many hundreds of supporters is a cunningly created illusion?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 23, 2015, 12:27:21 AM
It seems that a handful of people don't want to admit that there is a huge amount of support for Mr Amaral in both the UK and Portugal and therefore are claiming that the £50K+ raised by many hundreds of supporters is a cunningly created illusion?
Perhaps it is. Still a stubborn silence from PJGA when asked to provide accounts.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Eleanor on October 23, 2015, 12:34:29 AM
It seems that a handful of people don't want to admit that there is a huge amount of support for Mr Amaral in both the UK and Portugal and therefore are claiming that the £50K+ raised by many hundreds of supporters is a cunningly created illusion?
I don't think this is entirely true. Amaral has supporters, obviously, but not a huge number, and most of them are Brits.
But prior to the Go Fund Me Page the Portuguese Fund raised very little, so little in fact that it remains embarrassing, although the two Funds are now one and the same.
Not that this matters. Everyone has a right to spend their money as they please, and everyone has the right to accept it if offered. And at least we won't be left with Amaral failing through lack of money. So all in all a good result.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 01:10:02 AM
I don't think this is entirely true. Amaral has supporters, obviously, but not a huge number, and most of them are Brits.
But prior to the Go Fund Me Page the Portuguese Fund raised very little, so little in fact that it remains embarrassing, although the two Funds are now one and the same.
Not that this matters. Everyone has a right to spend their money as they please, and everyone has the right to accept it if offered. And at least we won't be left with Amaral failing through lack of money. So all in all a good result.
8K was donated to gfm by someone who writes perfect portuguese. Or are you suggesting that was a brit who paid a translator to translate his comment into portuguese?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Eleanor on October 23, 2015, 01:45:01 AM
8K was donated to gfm by someone who writes perfect portuguese. Or are you suggesting that was a brit who paid a translator to translate his comment into portuguese?
Why did this person not donate to The Portuguese Fund? It has been going for far longer that The Go Fund Me Page. But this isn't something I want to fall out about, especially not with you who always appears to be reasonable.
Most McCann Supporters really don't mind that this money has been raised, although perhaps some of us mind about some of the comments that are left with donations. And perhaps we mind that The Find Madeleine Fund has frequently been accused of Fraud when in the end they are entirely the same thing. Any one person's right to donate where ever they choose.
Amaral's profit from his book wasn't just sequestered to pay damages to The McCanns if they won. He had already acquired a reputation for not paying his debts long before The McCanns ever went to Portugal, and The Portuguese Court knew that, which is why it was done. So he has no one to blame for that other than himself.
It is a pity that he didn't pay those debts while he still had the money at his disposal. Everyone would have admired him for that. And then there would not have been much money to sequester, if any at all.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 23, 2015, 02:16:48 AM
For reasons that are remaining very quiet, the friends and supporters of former “Maddie cop” Gonçalo Amaral have called time on the gofundme online appeal set up to fund his legal expenses as he challenges the court decision ordering him to pay the parents of Madeleine McCann over €500,000 in damages. The Legal Defence for Gonçalo Amaral page will be closing on Wednesday, October 28. At time of writing, it had already raised over €69,860 and donations were still coming in. The latest, as of lunchtime today (Thursday), was for €100. Over the last five months, 2,757 people have responded to the gofundme campaign, set up by a young single mother from Birmingham who was only 14 when Madeleine went missing. Leanne Baulch, 22, explained to us back in May that she had never imagined the response her initiative received, but she felt compelled to do it as she was “desperate to help” a man she felt was being “persecuted”. But as the money flowed in, so too did the unpleasantness, including slurs in the British press that the fund was powered by “sick online trolls”. With Ms Baulch considering her position as a single parent of a toddler, she removed herself from the process altogether a few months ago. The fund then transferred into the hands of the friends of the former PJ detective whose book, “A Verdade da Mentira”, landed him in the hot seat of litigation - with all his assets, including bank accounts “frozen” - in 2008. Unpleasantness appears nonetheless to have continued, with internet manipulation of the appeal’s online code so that a few weeks ago, it virtually disappeared from sight (see http://portugalresident.com/online-intrigue-as-mccanns-close-twitter-pag...). Now those in charge of the fund have decided it should close. Using the headline “Sufficient” - which translated into Portuguese also stands for “Enough” - they have said: “We believe that it is time to close the gofundme page, as the bank account currently stands at an amount that seems largely sufficient to face eventual future expenses”. A source has confirmed to the Resident that other forms of fundraising remain open, while Amaral’s fundraisers are aware that whatever the result of the latest appeal being considered by Lisbon’s Appellate Court, litigation will continue. “If Amaral is successful, for example, we remain fairly certain that the McCann’s would appeal that decision. And so it continues. The next step would be the Supreme Court and then after that the Constitutional Court”. And should Amaral lose the fight which he feels centres on his right to freedom of expression then a new online appeal will be needed to fund a case against Portuguese justice in the European Court of Human Rights. Thus, for now, it is a case of “serenely awaiting” the next judicial decision, while Amaral’s supporters are no less determined to keep funding avenues open. Sending out the latest message to subscribers, the group of friends writing collectively said: “May we use this moment to wholeheartedly thank those who have expressed their support for Gonçalo Amaral’s right to an appropriate defence. Whether you have contributed financially or by sending a support message, you have made an impact. You have made a difference”. As we wrote this article, yet another donation was received as the six-day countdown to closure begins. Meantime, fund organisers continue to confirm that they will donate any money left unused on legal expenses to a Portuguese children’s charity. natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Eleanor on October 23, 2015, 02:24:24 AM
It doesn't look as though the legal expenses are going to end any time soon. But no doubt the fund to support Amaral will kick off again if needed.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 02:40:23 AM
Again the humble portugalresident outshines the so-called BBC and UK newspapers.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 23, 2015, 02:50:48 AM
It doesn't look as though the legal expenses are going to end any time soon. But no doubt the fund to support Amaral will kick off again if needed.
I don't think the GBP will be anywhere near as supportive of yet another plea for money if he loses at this stage of the process - especially if there are developments in the meantime.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 02:56:42 AM
"£1,000 KJM 11 hours ago"
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 23, 2015, 03:05:36 AM
I do hope someone hasn't lost a few weeks' wages by keying in the wrong amount. Once you press "continue" after entering your card details, your money is whooshed. No chance to correct.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on October 23, 2015, 07:22:20 AM
For reasons that are remaining very quiet, the friends and supporters of former “Maddie cop” Gonçalo Amaral have called time on the gofundme online appeal set up to fund his legal expenses as he challenges the court decision ordering him to pay the parents of Madeleine McCann over €500,000 in damages. The Legal Defence for Gonçalo Amaral page will be closing on Wednesday, October 28. At time of writing, it had already raised over €69,860 and donations were still coming in. The latest, as of lunchtime today (Thursday), was for €100. Over the last five months, 2,757 people have responded to the gofundme campaign, set up by a young single mother from Birmingham who was only 14 when Madeleine went missing. Leanne Baulch, 22, explained to us back in May that she had never imagined the response her initiative received, but she felt compelled to do it as she was “desperate to help” a man she felt was being “persecuted”. But as the money flowed in, so too did the unpleasantness, including slurs in the British press that the fund was powered by “sick online trolls”. With Ms Baulch considering her position as a single parent of a toddler, she removed herself from the process altogether a few months ago. The fund then transferred into the hands of the friends of the former PJ detective whose book, “A Verdade da Mentira”, landed him in the hot seat of litigation - with all his assets, including bank accounts “frozen” - in 2008. Unpleasantness appears nonetheless to have continued, with internet manipulation of the appeal’s online code so that a few weeks ago, it virtually disappeared from sight (see http://portugalresident.com/online-intrigue-as-mccanns-close-twitter-pag...). Now those in charge of the fund have decided it should close. Using the headline “Sufficient” - which translated into Portuguese also stands for “Enough” - they have said: “We believe that it is time to close the gofundme page, as the bank account currently stands at an amount that seems largely sufficient to face eventual future expenses”. A source has confirmed to the Resident that other forms of fundraising remain open, while Amaral’s fundraisers are aware that whatever the result of the latest appeal being considered by Lisbon’s Appellate Court, litigation will continue. “If Amaral is successful, for example, we remain fairly certain that the McCann’s would appeal that decision. And so it continues. The next step would be the Supreme Court and then after that the Constitutional Court”. And should Amaral lose the fight which he feels centres on his right to freedom of expression then a new online appeal will be needed to fund a case against Portuguese justice in the European Court of Human Rights. Thus, for now, it is a case of “serenely awaiting” the next judicial decision, while Amaral’s supporters are no less determined to keep funding avenues open. Sending out the latest message to subscribers, the group of friends writing collectively said: “May we use this moment to wholeheartedly thank those who have expressed their support for Gonçalo Amaral’s right to an appropriate defence. Whether you have contributed financially or by sending a support message, you have made an impact. You have made a difference”. As we wrote this article, yet another donation was received as the six-day countdown to closure begins. Meantime, fund organisers continue to confirm that they will donate any money left unused on legal expenses to a Portuguese children’s charity. natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
so Donn thinks that the internet code was altered whereas the real reason the site is no longer listed is that it is not linked to a facebook page...another deluded amaral supporter
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 23, 2015, 09:32:29 AM
For reasons that are remaining very quiet, the friends and supporters of former “Maddie cop” Gonçalo Amaral have called time on the gofundme online appeal set up to fund his legal expenses as he challenges the court decision ordering him to pay the parents of Madeleine McCann over €500,000 in damages. The Legal Defence for Gonçalo Amaral page will be closing on Wednesday, October 28. At time of writing, it had already raised over €69,860 and donations were still coming in. The latest, as of lunchtime today (Thursday), was for €100. Over the last five months, 2,757 people have responded to the gofundme campaign, set up by a young single mother from Birmingham who was only 14 when Madeleine went missing. Leanne Baulch, 22, explained to us back in May that she had never imagined the response her initiative received, but she felt compelled to do it as she was “desperate to help” a man she felt was being “persecuted”. But as the money flowed in, so too did the unpleasantness, including slurs in the British press that the fund was powered by “sick online trolls”. With Ms Baulch considering her position as a single parent of a toddler, she removed herself from the process altogether a few months ago. The fund then transferred into the hands of the friends of the former PJ detective whose book, “A Verdade da Mentira”, landed him in the hot seat of litigation - with all his assets, including bank accounts “frozen” - in 2008. Unpleasantness appears nonetheless to have continued, with internet manipulation of the appeal’s online code so that a few weeks ago, it virtually disappeared from sight (see http://portugalresident.com/online-intrigue-as-mccanns-close-twitter-pag...). Now those in charge of the fund have decided it should close. Using the headline “Sufficient” - which translated into Portuguese also stands for “Enough” - they have said: “We believe that it is time to close the gofundme page, as the bank account currently stands at an amount that seems largely sufficient to face eventual future expenses”. A source has confirmed to the Resident that other forms of fundraising remain open, while Amaral’s fundraisers are aware that whatever the result of the latest appeal being considered by Lisbon’s Appellate Court, litigation will continue. “If Amaral is successful, for example, we remain fairly certain that the McCann’s would appeal that decision. And so it continues. The next step would be the Supreme Court and then after that the Constitutional Court”. And should Amaral lose the fight which he feels centres on his right to freedom of expression then a new online appeal will be needed to fund a case against Portuguese justice in the European Court of Human Rights. Thus, for now, it is a case of “serenely awaiting” the next judicial decision, while Amaral’s supporters are no less determined to keep funding avenues open. Sending out the latest message to subscribers, the group of friends writing collectively said: “May we use this moment to wholeheartedly thank those who have expressed their support for Gonçalo Amaral’s right to an appropriate defence. Whether you have contributed financially or by sending a support message, you have made an impact. You have made a difference”. As we wrote this article, yet another donation was received as the six-day countdown to closure begins. Meantime, fund organisers continue to confirm that they will donate any money left unused on legal expenses to a Portuguese children’s charity. natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
What does that mean? I thought the reason was because enough (sufficient) money was now available. In fact the author goes on to give that as a reason later on in the article.
I note the total no. of how many people have donated - which is advertised daily on the site - is now being claimed as a fact by this reporter - when it is clearly false.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 11:51:56 AM
What does that mean? I thought the reason was because enough (sufficient) money was now available. In fact the author goes on to give that as a reason later on in the article.
I note the total no. of how many people have donated - which is advertised daily on the site - is now being claimed as a fact by this reporter - when it is clearly false.
2772 donations. If we estimate that on average each donator has made about 5 donations, that means there are about 550 donators. The total £52240 is definitely correct because this figure is provided by gfm and is the actual real amount which has been received.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: ferryman on October 23, 2015, 11:52:54 AM
What does that mean? I thought the reason was because enough (sufficient) money was now available. In fact the author goes on to give that as a reason later on in the article.
I note the total no. of how many people have donated - which is advertised daily on the site - is now being claimed as a fact by this reporter - when it is clearly false.
Not read the rest of the article, but this is interesting, from Natasha Donn's article:
At time of writing, it had already raised over €69,860
So why is the figure (now) showing:
£52,240 of £25k?
Or is that a euro conversion from an amount showing in sterling?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 12:00:43 PM
I do hope someone hasn't lost a few weeks' wages by keying in the wrong amount. Once you press "continue" after entering your card details, your money is whooshed. No chance to correct.
Here is an alternative whacky theory it is wildly speculative and I don't have any evidence to back it up and you might say it makes "nasa photo shows elvis having picnic with lord lucan on moon" seem reasonable in comparision, but anyway here it is - GJM actually donated £1000 on purpose.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 23, 2015, 12:21:11 PM
Not read the rest of the article, but this is interesting, from Natasha Donn's article:
At time of writing, it had already raised over €69,860
So why is the figure (now) showing:
£52,240 of £25k?
Or is that a euro conversion from an amount showing in sterling?
£25,000 was the target now considerably surpassed. As of now, £52,240 or €72,552 has been donated to GoFundMe.
In addition...
Quote
The Paypal account that is associated to the bank account has received over 6 thousand euro during the same period. Donations totaling a smaller amount have also been made directly to the bank account.
https://www.gofundme.com/Legal-DefencePJGA
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: John on October 23, 2015, 02:22:51 PM
What is left of Amaral's Pension is more than twice as much as I have to manage on with my State Pension. So I don't know what they mean by barely enough to meet his everyday living costs.
PS. And I'm not complaining.
In the UK a court can authorise the unfreezing of assets in order to cover any essential living expenses and that includes lawyer fees where appropriate. Surely the Portuguese system cannot be that different?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Anna on October 23, 2015, 02:44:53 PM
Were his assets frozen before the court case for libel/damages commenced?
ETA:-
Sorry..I forgot that the legal fees were also paid by a defence fund made up of charitable donators IIRC.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Eleanor on October 23, 2015, 03:00:25 PM
In the UK a court can authorise the unfreezing of assets in order to cover any essential living expenses and that includes lawyer fees where appropriate. Surely the Portuguese system cannot be that different?
I would agree, John. At least some assistance would have been available to him. Unless they decided that he had enough as things were.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Anna on October 23, 2015, 03:22:08 PM
Doesn't look like he got it first time around.
Amaral seeks state aid in fighting McCanns in News · 31-10-2009 00:00:00 · 0 Comments Gonçalo Amaral has reportedly applied for legal aid to assist him in litigation with the parents of missing toddler Madeleine McCann. The former chief detective in the case has justified the application by stating he has insufficient funds to support the legal costs involved. Kate and Gerry McCann have sued Amaral for 1.2 million euros in damages for suggesting they might have been involved in the disappearance of their daughter. According to media reports, a Lisbon court has also ordered Amaral to hand over his €70,000 Jaguar purchased in May in the name a company registered as Gonçalo Amaral Unipessoal Lda. http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/amaral-seeks-state-aid-in-fighting-mccanns/1442
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Carana on October 23, 2015, 03:56:30 PM
Amaral seeks legal aid support and states he has no assets Jornal de Notícias
by Alexandra Serôdio 01 December 2009 - 00h30m Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
Gonçalo Amaral asked for the help of the State in order to be able to defend himself against the case brought by the McCanns.
Citing economic insufficiency to pay the court costs, the former PJ coordinator saw the Civil Court of Lisbon preventively seize the earnings made from the sale of the book and of the documentary through a sole-proprietorship company in his name, as a way to ensure that there will be money to pay any compensation, whose pertinence can only be examined through the main action.
In the aid application document, dated 24 September, Amaral declared an annual net income of 39 thousand Euros, with a household of four people: himself, his wife and two little girls, of 11 and five-years-old. He also states that he does not own any real estate property.
According to a document from the Land Registry Office of Olhão, dated 21 September, to which the JN had access, Amaral, 'owns' a single-family house consisting of two floors, two terraces and a swimming pool, which is valued at more than 200 thousand euros.
The sole-proprietorship company in Amaral's name, created for the marketing of the book, has a car registered, of the Jaguar brand. The registration of that property was made in May, this year.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id288.html
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 23, 2015, 10:57:12 PM
Perhaps the fund is being closed because Amaral knows, via old police colleagues, that the conclusion to the current investigation will mean that he no longer needs the funds envisioned ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 23, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Perhaps the fund is being closed because Amaral knows, via old police colleagues, that the conclusion to the current investigation will mean that he no longer needs the funds envisioned ?
Are you alluding to unofficial reports posted by an anonymous "sceptic" that Op Grange are going to conclude that the McCanns dunnit? @)(++(*
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 23, 2015, 11:54:31 PM
I've moved on from that. Forget unofficial reports, from anonymous "sceptics" on the internet, they're not worth discussing. Please instead, address my question, many thanks.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 24, 2015, 12:12:20 AM
I've moved on from that. Forget unofficial reports, from anonymous "sceptics" on the internet, they're not worth discussing. Please instead, address my question, many thanks.
You may have moved on Alfie, I haven't. Now you stated that I had posted a comment as a result of an unofficial report by an anonymous sceptic. Surely it is only manners to explain to me what you were alluding to ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 24, 2015, 12:19:44 AM
You may have moved on Alfie, I haven't. Now you stated that I had posted a comment as a result of an unofficial report by an anonymous sceptic. Surely it is only manners to explain to me what you were alluding to ?
I accepted fully that you have not heard of this unofficial report posted by an anonymous sceptic on the net and that it was not the reason for your remark in the first place, which is why I said "fair enough". There is no point repeating unsubstantiated reports (aka malicious gossip) on this forum as I believe it is against forum rules. So - time to move on and answer my question which is why should the conclusion of Operation Grange have any bearing on Amaral's legal costs to appeal a court verdict against him?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 24, 2015, 12:27:58 AM
I accepted fully that you have not heard of this unofficial report posted by an anonymous sceptic on the net and that it was not the reason for your remark in the first place, which is why I said "fair enough". There is no point repeating unsubstantiated reports (aka malicious gossip) on this forum as I believe it is against forum rules. So - time to move on and answer my question which is why should the conclusion of Operation Grange have any bearing on Amaral's legal costs to appeal a court verdict against him?
I'm afraid I'm more interested in the, as yet unsubstantiated, reports of the anonymous sceptic. Where did the report appear ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on October 24, 2015, 08:35:44 AM
Perhaps the fund is being closed because Amaral knows, via old police colleagues, that the conclusion to the current investigation will mean that he no longer needs the funds envisioned ?
much more likely his lawyer told him to start writing a large cheque to Drs McCann
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on October 24, 2015, 08:40:41 AM
if amaral has been told his appeal will be rejected then he would have to stop soliciting funds,,...not to do so woukd be fraudulent and I think he's had enough of courtrooms
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 24, 2015, 08:46:29 AM
if amaral has been told his appeal will be rejected then he would have to stop soliciting funds,,...not to do so woukd be fraudulent and I think he's had enough of courtrooms
He wasn't soliciting funds.
It was done on his behalf.
All that will happen, is that the mccanns, or should i say the donors, will be continuing to pay the mccanns legal expenses.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 24, 2015, 06:20:46 PM
Then why mention it in the first place ? Are you afraid, whatever it is, is true ?
I mentioned it because I thought when you made your comment that I replied to that it was what you were alluding to. And no, I am not afraid that it is true, I'm afraid that it is just more idiotic mischief-making by people who should be old enough to know better.
Now will you ever answer my question or should I give up now?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 24, 2015, 06:59:03 PM
I mentioned it because I thought when you made your comment that I replied to that it was what you were alluding to. And no, I am not afraid that it is true, I'm afraid that it is just more idiotic mischief-making by people who should be old enough to know better.
Now will you ever answer my question or should I give up now?
If the report is so transparently absurd why are you so loath to bring it to the forum ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 24, 2015, 07:02:27 PM
If the report is so transparently absurd why are you so loath to bring it to the forum ?
Because this forum has a rule not to post links to other forums or unsubstantiated gossip from malicious trolls. You're badgering is becoming tiresome now. I will ignore all further attempts you make to get any more information out of me about this- I do believe it's simply diversionary tactics on your part to avoid answering my question to you. Never mind....
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on October 24, 2015, 07:14:05 PM
Because this forum has a rule not to post links to other forums or unsubstantiated gossip from malicious trolls. You're badgering is becoming tiresome now. I will ignore all further attempts you make to get any more information out of me about this- I do believe it's simply diversionary tactics on your part to avoid answering my question to you. Never mind....
When you answer my question I'll be more than happy to answer yours Alfie.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on October 24, 2015, 07:20:39 PM
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 25, 2015, 12:12:12 PM
I do believe many McCann supporters are of the opinion that Amaral is being supported because he wrote a book, a nasty book by their oinion,however, Many I spoke to, this includes myself, it may be a rubbish, boring book and he may be an evil, corrupt, sardine munching ex cop, BUT he has the right to freedom of expression as does everyone else.
And as the court has descided they agree with this! With regards to liable claims- The McCanns failed to prove this in a court setting they initiated! ( by sneaky, snidy means).
The book did not stop any search for their daughter which they claimed-nor did it affect any claim that if the book was not written their daughter would be brought home safe to them.
I accept that the book would have been upsetting to them, but losing a daughter to a 'paedo gang'? would be more on my mind AND more upsetting than a court case which turned into a witch hunt-their behaviour over this was disgraceful.
The clever judge did ask that question...what was more upsetting. I think she was trying to read their psychie...guess the answer to that one!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 25, 2015, 01:23:25 PM
it was already announced that there is sufficient funds to cover the impending court costs, if anything is left over Amaral can chose a Portuguese chilrens charity. And if More money is required in the future, they can begin another collection. Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 25, 2015, 03:42:05 PM
it was already announced that there is sufficient funds to cover the impending court costs, if anything is left over Amaral can chose a Portuguese chilrens charity. And if More money is required in the future, they can begin another collection. Makes sense to me.
If there is more than sufficient money in the fund, why is someone appealing for one final "Fiver Flood" into the GFM to support GA? What's the rush, when you can donate directly to the PJGA a/c?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 25, 2015, 03:48:22 PM
If there is more than sufficient money in the fund, why is someone appealing for one final "Fiver Flood" into the GFM to support GA? What's the rush, when you can donate directly to the PJGA a/c?
I have no idea. who is asking for the fiver flood? ask them.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 25, 2015, 06:56:53 PM
I do believe many McCann supporters are of the opinion that Amaral is being supported because he wrote a book, a nasty book by their oinion,however, Many I spoke to, this includes myself, it may be a rubbish, boring book and he may be an evil, corrupt, sardine munching ex cop, BUT he has the right to freedom of expression as does everyone else.
And as the court has descided they agree with this! With regards to liable claims- The McCanns failed to prove this in a court setting they initiated! ( by sneaky, snidy means).
The book did not stop any search for their daughter which they claimed-nor did it affect any claim that if the book was not written their daughter would be brought home safe to them.
I accept that the book would have been upsetting to them, but losing a daughter to a 'paedo gang'? would be more on my mind AND more upsetting than a court case which turned into a witch hunt-their behaviour over this was disgraceful.
The clever judge did ask that question...what was more upsetting. I think she was trying to read their psychie...guess the answer to that one!
A very good post. After all, it was no surprise to them what the police thought, it had been splashed all over the papers.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: ferryman on October 27, 2015, 09:49:01 PM
I do believe many McCann supporters are of the opinion that Amaral is being supported because he wrote a book, a nasty book by their opnion,however, Many I spoke to, this includes myself, it may be a rubbish, boring book and he may be an evil, corrupt, sardine munching ex cop, BUT he has the right to freedom of expression as does everyone else.
And as the court has decided they agree with this! With regards to liable claims- The McCanns failed to prove this in a court setting they initiated! ( by sneaky, snidy means).
The book did not stop any search for their daughter which they claimed-nor did it affect any claim that if the book was not written their daughter would be brought home safe to them.
I accept that the book would have been upsetting to them, but losing a daughter to a 'paedo gang'? would be more on my mind AND more upsetting than a court case which turned into a witch hunt-their behaviour over this was disgraceful.
The clever judge did ask that question...what was more upsetting. I think she was trying to read their psychie...guess the answer to that one!
I think the judge tried to steer her judgment clear of pronouncements that might provide Amaral with ripe grounds of appeal.
That's probably why she found it not proved that a book declaring Madeleine 'definitely dead' in some way harmed the search for Madeleine.
Quite self-evidently it did, and does ....
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 27, 2015, 10:28:28 PM
I think the judge tried to steer her judgment clear of pronouncements that might provide Amaral with ripe grounds of appeal.
That's probably why she found it not proved that a book declaring Madeleine 'definitely dead' in some way harmed the search for Madeleine.
Quite self-evidently it did, and does ....
The judge found it not proved because it wasn't proved. As Amaral has appealed he must have had grounds. Whether or not the book harmed the search is a matter of opinion, not of fact.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on October 27, 2015, 11:06:56 PM
The idea that a book "harmed the search " is just a flight of fancy at best
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 28, 2015, 11:01:01 PM
In the light of allegations on other sites as to the methods used to "encourage" donations, I now understand exactly why GA has never publicly acknowledged receiving any money from this fund.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 01:10:25 AM
In the light of allegations on other sites as to the methods used to "encourage" donations, I now understand exactly why GA has never publicly acknowledged receiving any money from this fund.
But he has Misty, he wrote a thankyou letter, here is part of it "15th of June ... The wave of solidarity that was generated to support me has been very moving and makes me feel extremely humble. I am so very grateful to each and every one of you, who have supported me and continue to do so; none of this would have been possible without you. ... Gonçalo de Sousa Amaral"
Let's compare like for like. Here is the full text of the thankyou letter from the man on your side, thanking the thousands of people whose support paid for lawyers who launched this case against Mr Amaral: "
"
When it comes to an integrity comparision test Misty, there is no competition at all.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 01:13:52 AM
But he has Misty, he wrote a thankyou letter, here is part of it "15th of June ... The wave of solidarity that was generated to support me has been very moving and makes me feel extremely humble. I am so very grateful to each and every one of you, who have supported me and continue to do so; none of this would have been possible without you. ... Gonçalo de Sousa Amaral"
Let's compare like for like. Here is the full text of the thankyou letter from the man on your side, thanking the thousands of people whose support paid for lawyers who launched this case against Mr Amaral: "
"
When it comes to an integrity comparision test Misty, there is no competition at all.
Does that "thank you" note specifically mention monetary donations made through GFM?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 01:30:04 AM
Does that "thank you" note specifically mention monetary donations made through GFM?
He is thanking the thousands of people who supported him so that he was able to compete with the hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on lawyers by his attackers' supporters Misty, so obviously that includes donators to PJGA via the brilliantly successful GFM appeal, which raised a thousand times more than your side's appeal in the same six months IMO, and that's a measure of the fact the GBP see straight through the PR guff that tried to destroy Mr Amaral.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 01:43:40 AM
Where is the thankyou letter from the person who started this libel case against Sr Amaral, addressed to all the thousands of kind donators who paid for the legal costs of launching it?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 01:45:29 AM
He is thanking the thousands of people who supported him so that he was able to compete with the hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on lawyers by his attackers' supporters Misty, so obviously that includes donators to PJGA via the brilliantly successful GFM appeal, which raised a thousand times more than your side's appeal in the same six months IMO, and that's a measure of the fact the GBP see straight through the PR guff that tried to destroy Mr Amaral.
I'm on the side of justice, Pegasus. Justice for Madeleine & her family. Actually, I don't blame GA for not publicly mentioning the GFM appeal. Disassociation is in his best interest. Curiously, Queen Isabelle, one of his biggest supporters, has been suspended from Twitter sometime this evening. Something is happening, imo.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 01:48:33 AM
Some people would never dare quote Churchill - because they know people would just laugh.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 01:53:34 AM
I'm on the side of justice, Pegasus. Justice for Madeleine & her family. Actually, I don't blame GA for not publicly mentioning the GFM appeal. Disassociation is in his best interest. Curiously, Queen Isabelle, one of his biggest supporters, has been suspended from Twitter sometime this evening. Something is happening, imo.
I was hoping you'd post the thankyou letter from your side to the thousands of people who by donations kindly enabled this libel case against Mr Amaral to be launched Misty.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 02:11:22 AM
I was hoping you'd post the thankyou letter from your side to the thousands of people who by donations kindly enabled this libel case against Mr Amaral to be launched Misty.
Here you go, Pegasus. One of many. Kate McCann: You have all given me strength Liverpool Echo
By PADDY SHENNAN
JUL 27 2007
IN a heartfelt letter to the ECHO, the Liverpool-born mother of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann has thanked the people of Merseyside for giving her the strength to carry on.
Kate McCann says: "I would like to say a huge 'thank you' to all the people in Liverpool and Merseyside who have supported Gerry and I, in different ways, over the past few months. Our family as a whole has gained a great deal of strength from such kindness and it has been particularly important to me that my mum and dad have experienced such solidarity and support.
"It is through such goodwill that we have been able to keep on going, even through our darkest moments."
Kate wrote her message yesterday, 12 weeks to the day after her daughter was abducted from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve.
In the letter, she adds: "We continue to hope and pray that our beautiful little Madeleine will be back with us soon and able to continue bringing such joy into many people's lives."
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 02:14:31 AM
That's the very odd part in that note. Why does he quote Churchill? And the syntax is totally at odds with messages on his own F/B page.
He quotes Churchill because he has a very high regard for the UK Misty. Remember when you read his thankyou note to his supporters (who made his appeal in this libel case possible), it is translated from portuguese, so the exact syntax is a result of translation. BTW for comparision have a look at the thankyou note written by the directors of MFNSLU Ltd to their supporters in gratitude for enabling this case against Sr Amaral to be launched. Anyone got a link?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 02:31:07 AM
He quotes Churchill because he has a very high regard for the UK Misty. Remember when you read his thankyou note to his supporters (who made his appeal in this libel case possible), it is translated from portuguese, so the exact syntax is a result of translation. BTW for comparision have a look at the thankyou note written by the directors of MFNSLU Ltd to their supporters in gratitude for enabling this case against Sr Amaral to be launched. Anyone got a link?
Enough blood has been shed :) We are off topic. Back to the GFM appeal, the uncanny timing of its closure & revelations about people being encouraged to split their contribution into multiple smaller donations using different names.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on October 29, 2015, 02:48:49 AM
In the light of allegations on other sites as to the methods used to "encourage" donations, I now understand exactly why GA has never publicly acknowledged receiving any money from this fund.
why are sooo touchy ahout GAs fund, where nothihg had been proven questionable about it, its a mere 50k or so, but the MULTi million non transparent Mccann fund is ok? In your books?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 02:54:55 AM
why are sooo touchy ahout GAs fund, where nothihg had been proven questionable about it, its a mere 50k or so, but the MULTi million non transparent Mccann fund is ok? In your books?
Nothing has been proven in any respect about GA's fund or the now-defunct GFM appeal. I trust you were sensible enough not to donate.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 29, 2015, 07:48:39 AM
He quotes Churchill because he has a very high regard for the UK Misty.
Remember when you read his thankyou note to his supporters (who made his appeal in this libel case possible), it is translated from portuguese, so the exact syntax is a result of translation. BTW for comparision have a look at the thankyou note written by the directors of MFNSLU Ltd to their supporters in gratitude for enabling this case against Sr Amaral to be launched. Anyone got a link?
Is that so? The impression I get from his book is that he thinks Brits regard Portugal as a third world country - which - in his opinion was being told what to do by big bully UK.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 29, 2015, 08:43:37 AM
Is that so? The impression I get from his book is that he thinks Brits regard Portugal as a third world country - which - in his opinion was being told what to do by big bully UK.
Actually, the impression given in this case, is that Brits think Portugal as a third world country.
One only has to see the disdain given to Portugal by the UK Tabloid press in the last 8 years.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2015, 09:32:00 AM
Actually, the impression given in this case, is that Brits think Portugal as a third world country.
One only has to see the disdain given to Portugal by the UK Tabloid press in the last 8 years.
Such silly prejudice doesn't appear to have affected the zeal of the present Policia Judicairia team in their cooperation with Scotland Yard in the hunt for Madeleine McCann. Nor the thousands of Brits who have chosen Portugal as a place to live and work.
There certainly is quite a lot of discussion elsewhere on the internet about how the figures and the donations to Mr Amaral's appeal were massaged to misrepresent the sum collected and the number who chose to contribute to it.
In the absence of transparency I doubt any armchair detective with an interest will ever know the truth of the matter particularly with the merging of one fund into another and the sum involved hardly qualifying as a top priority for the fraud squad. Wonder why no other Facebook account holder leapt into the breach when Ms Baulch stood down?
I would make a suggestion though as far as the GFM appeal for Goncalo Amaral is concerned. Just imagine for one moment the name on it was Madeleine McCann with the same contingencies in place for the contributions involved and take it from there what opinions would be expressed about it.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 29, 2015, 09:48:40 AM
Such silly prejudice doesn't appear to have affected the zeal of the present Policia Judicairia team in their cooperation with Scotland Yard in the hunt for Madeleine McCann. Nor the thousands of Brits who have chosen Portugal as a place to live and work.
There certainly is quite a lot of discussion elsewhere on the internet about how the figures and the donations to Mr Amaral's appeal were massaged to misrepresent the sum collected and the number who chose to contribute to it.
In the absence of transparency I doubt any armchair detective with an interest will ever know the truth of the matter particularly with the merging of one fund into another and the sum involved hardly qualifying as a top priority for the fraud squad. Wonder why no other Facebook account holder leapt into the breach when Ms Baulch stood down?
I would make a suggestion though as far as the GFM appeal for Goncalo Amaral is concerned. Just imagine for one moment the name on it was Madeleine McCann with the same contingencies in place for the contributions involved and take it from there what opinions would be expressed about it.
It may have escaped your attention, but the Madeleine fund is still in operation, with very few donations.
I wonder how many people would have donated if they knew they would be paying for the mccanns personal and legal expenses, with a paltry amount actually being used to 'search' for Madeleine.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2015, 10:05:46 AM
It may have escaped your attention, but the Madeleine fund is still in operation, with very few donations.
I wonder how many people would have donated if they knew they would be paying for the mccanns personal and legal expenses, with a paltry amount actually being used to 'search' for Madeleine.
Don't be so silly ... Madeleine's Fund is transparent and audited ... in fact aren't we approaching the time of year when the number of paper clips used comes up for serious scrutiny and discussion.
One could hardly expect such a fund to be able to match the £10+million already spent by Operation Grange on a properly conducted investigation which incorporates the detective work paid for by contributors to Madeleine's Fund.
Nothing at all murky there and just as people are free to contribute to Mr Amaral's less than transparent funding ... those who may wish to contribute to Madeleine's Fund enjoy exactly the same privilege of being free to do what they wish with their own money.
Actually the defence fund for Mr Amaral is still accepting donations, so only the GFM appeal which has to meet particular requirements has closed down. Bet the owners of the site never anticipated the comment and alleged multiples attracted by this one ... a very poor precedent which may very well have repercussions for the future.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 29, 2015, 10:14:35 AM
Don't be so silly ... Madeleine's Fund is transparent and audited ... in fact aren't we approaching the time of year when the number of paper clips used comes up for serious scrutiny and discussion.
One could hardly expect such a fund to be able to match the £10+million already spent by Operation Grange on a properly conducted investigation which incorporates the detective work paid for by contributors to Madeleine's Fund.
Nothing at all murky there and just as people are free to contribute to Mr Amaral's less than transparent funding ... those who may wish to contribute to Madeleine's Fund enjoy exactly the same privilege of being free to do what they wish with their own money.
Actually the defence fund for Mr Amaral is still accepting donations, so only the GFM appeal which has to meet particular requirements has closed down. Bet the owners of the site never anticipated the comment and alleged multiples attracted by this one ... a very poor precedent which may very well have repercussions for the future.
Amaral's is a defense fund.
The mccanns is a ltd. company.
As to being transparent........................
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 29, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
Such silly prejudice doesn't appear to have affected the zeal of the present Policia Judicairia team in their cooperation with Scotland Yard in the hunt for Madeleine McCann. Nor the thousands of Brits who have chosen Portugal as a place to live and work.
There certainly is quite a lot of discussion elsewhere on the internet about how the figures and the donations to Mr Amaral's appeal were massaged to misrepresent the sum collected and the number who chose to contribute to it.
In the absence of transparency I doubt any armchair detective with an interest will ever know the truth of the matter particularly with the merging of one fund into another and the sum involved hardly qualifying as a top priority for the fraud squad. Wonder why no other Facebook account holder leapt into the breach when Ms Baulch stood down?
I would make a suggestion though as far as the GFM appeal for Goncalo Amaral is concerned. Just imagine for one moment the name on it was Madeleine McCann with the same contingencies in place for the contributions involved and take it from there what opinions would be expressed about it.
I'm sure sceptics would have turned the same blind eye to a false total of donators being peddled - as they have to the completely false total that has been allowed to stand on the GFM fund - and AFAIK - without even a whisper of criticism.
Hang on - a squadron of pigs has just flown past my window!
IMO - the truth is the McCanns would be torn to shreds and accused of deliberately and dishonestly misleading the public into believing they had far more supporters than was actually the case.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 29, 2015, 10:39:10 AM
I'm sure sceptics would have turned the same blind eye to a false total of donators being peddled - as they have to the completely false total that has been allowed to stand on the GFM fund - and AFAIK - without even a whisper of criticism.
Hang on - a squadron of pigs has just flown past my window!
IMO - the truth is the McCanns would be torn to shreds and accused of deliberately and dishonestly misleading the public into believing they had far more supporters than was actually the case.
'..COMPLETELY FALSE TOTAL..'
You can back up that statement ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 29, 2015, 10:58:01 AM
You asked a question about the GFM fund and I answered it. i.e. The figure shown as the total number of people who have donated to GFM fund is false. And all the deflecting in the world won't change that.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 29, 2015, 12:36:52 PM
You asked a question about the GFM fund and I answered it. i.e. The figure shown as the total number of people who have donated to GFM fund is false. And all the deflecting in the world won't change that.
So what.
People donated to Amaral.
Get over it.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 29, 2015, 02:49:41 PM
I'm sure sceptics would have turned the same blind eye to a false total of donators being peddled - as they have to the completely false total that has been allowed to stand on the GFM fund - and AFAIK - without even a whisper of criticism.
Hang on - a squadron of pigs has just flown past my window!
IMO - the truth is the McCanns would be torn to shreds and accused of deliberately and dishonestly misleading the public into believing they had far more supporters than was actually the case.
Does any one really care how many donors there were in a situation where only the amount of dosh donated is relevant? Both Amaral's Beer and Baccy Fund and Madeleine's Fund: LNSU Ltd are both begging bowls. Chuck in your money say bye bye to it and who knows what happens next. I don't see the difference really.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2015, 04:40:35 PM
Does any one really care how many donors there were in a situation where only the amount of dosh donated is relevant? Both Amaral's Beer and Baccy Fund and Madeleine's Fund: LNSU Ltd are both begging bowls. Chuck in your money say bye bye to it and who knows what happens next. I don't see the difference really.
Only those who wish to magnify the supposed level of support ... by all accounts they put some effort into it.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 29, 2015, 05:02:22 PM
Only those who wish to magnify the supposed level of support ... by all accounts they put some effort into it.
Stands a chance it is merely down to the website method of totaling; but that has nowhere near the potential for scurrilous or mischief making remarks does it?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2015, 05:09:39 PM
Stands a chance it is merely down to the website method of totaling; but that has nowhere near the potential for scurrilous or mischief making remarks does it?
I would agree totally that the potential for some of the accompanying remarks, while being both "scurrilous" and "mischief making" go a lot deeper than that and stand as testament to the truly bizarre nature of the beliefs of the authors.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 05:14:24 PM
Stands a chance it is merely down to the website method of totaling; but that has nowhere near the potential for scurrilous or mischief making remarks does it?
Of course it's down to gofundme. I saw a few donator's posting comments such as 'It's fiver Friday, here's my contribution'. They were obviously trying to fool us. @)(++(*
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 29, 2015, 05:15:16 PM
What has that got to do with my post? You asked a question about the GFM fund and I answered it. i.e. The figure shown as the total number of people who have donated to GFM fund is false. And all the deflecting in the world won't change that.
So someone who is not great with spreasheets, does a counif sum and counts the number of donations and states this must be the amount of people. Easy mistake to make. But anyway, thing is Amaral has not been flying round the world,staying in 5 star hotels whilst telling people he is not happy about the search for his daughter. begging for more all the while. Amaral's fund was set up by someone lse and they will descide how that m oney is best spent!
Not on PR and lobbying politicians, and various legal services.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 29, 2015, 05:23:48 PM
I have never disputed that people donated to Amaral. I pointed out that the number of people which it is claimed have donated is false - and therefore gives a false impression to the public of the level of support which Amaral has actually received from the public. That's dishonest IMO.
If the McCanns did the same you and your fellow sceptics would be up in arms imo.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 05:29:25 PM
I have never disputed that people donated to Amaral. I pointed out that the number of people which it is claimed have donated is false - and therefore gives a false impression to the public of the level of support which Amaral has actually received from the public. That's dishonest IMO.
If the McCanns did the same you and your fellow sceptics would be up in arms imo.
As it seems to be a feature of the way gofundme works perhaps you should explain to them that it should be changed?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 29, 2015, 05:36:53 PM
Of course it's down to gofundme. I saw a few donator's posting comments such as 'It's fiver Friday, here's my contribution'. They were obviously trying to fool us. @)(++(*
*&*%£ Sour grapes anyone? Seems a certain camp is not best please with AMARAL getting funds...bah humbug.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 29, 2015, 05:40:45 PM
As it seems to be a feature of the way gofundme works perhaps you should explain to them that it should be changed?
If the organisers had wanted to change it they would have. It's not rocket science to see why they preferred to turn a blind eye to it. *In fact reading elsewhere it would seem people were encouraged to split their contributions into several small contributions instead of just one. Why do you think they would do that - if not to make the figures look better than they really were? *(I'm sure if I've got that wrong someone will correct me.)
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 05:44:58 PM
If the organisers had wanted to change it they would have. It's not rocket science to see why they preferred to turn a blind eye to it. *In fact reading elsewhere it would seem people were encouraged to split their contributions into several small contributions instead of just one. Why do you think they would do that - if not to make the figures look better than they really were? *(I'm sure if I've got that wrong someone will correct me.)
Who? Leanne? The one the ......... drove away? Could she have changed it? Who suggested making small donations, do you have a link?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on October 29, 2015, 05:53:02 PM
Who? Leanne? The one the ......... drove away? Could she have changed it? Who suggested making small donations, do you have a link?
If it couldn't be changed - there was nothing to stop a note being included on the page - pointing out the 'discrepancy'.
I think I would be breaking forum rules to give a link (even if I could - as I'm not good at that sort of thing). I can copy and paste the info - if that is allowed?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 07:51:04 PM
If it couldn't be changed - there was nothing to stop a note being included on the page - pointing out the 'discrepancy'.
I think I would be breaking forum rules to give a link (even if I could - as I'm not good at that sort of thing). I can copy and paste the info - if that is allowed?
I don't think you are allowed to quote, Don't know about links, sorry. I don't think any deception was considered or intended, but once people realised it was upsetting certain others they probably did it all the more.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 08:22:20 PM
If it couldn't be changed - there was nothing to stop a note being included on the page - pointing out the 'discrepancy'.
I think I would be breaking forum rules to give a link (even if I could - as I'm not good at that sort of thing). I can copy and paste the info - if that is allowed?
Their logic defies belief - GFM charged a fee for each transaction, so splitting a donation incurred multiple fees and possibly multiple currency conversion charges.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 08:38:29 PM
Their logic defies belief - GFM charged a fee for each transaction, so splitting a donation incurred multiple fees and possibly multiple currency conversion charges.
Misty if you check the Stripe transaction fees you will discover that the kind donator, who split their donation to gfm of £8000 into two seperate donations each of £4000, incurred by doing so an extra transaction fee of twenty pence !!! Thankyou for pointing out the scandalous immensity of it, this is certainly your best critique of the gfm amaral appeal ever.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 08:43:04 PM
Misty if you check the Stripe transaction fees you will discover that the kind donator, who split their donation to gfm of £8000 into two seperate donations each of £4000, incurred by doing so an extra transaction fee of twenty pence !!! Thankyou for pointing out the scandalous immensity of it, this is certainly your best critique of the gfm amaral appeal ever.
I'm not referring to the deceptively generous double donation, merely the much smaller donations of, say, £20.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 29, 2015, 08:47:29 PM
Misty if you check the Stripe transaction fees you will discover that the kind donator, who split their donation to gfm of £8000 into two seperate donations each of £4000, incurred by doing so an extra transaction fee of twenty pence !!! Thankyou for pointing out the scandalous immensity of it, this is certainly your best critique of the gfm amaral appeal ever.
*&*%£ *&*%£ *&*%£ OMG too funny!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 08:52:15 PM
I'm not referring to the deceptively generous double donation, merely the much smaller donations of, say, £20.
If someone split a £20 donation into four £5 donations they incur an extra transaction charge of 60pence Misty or twelve shillings in old money. You are talking shillings.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 08:57:19 PM
If someone split a £20 donation into four £5 donations they incur an extra transaction charge of 60pence Misty or twelve shillings in old money. You are talking shillings.
6.9% +20p + any currency conversion charge. Illogical, whichever way you look at it.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 09:13:01 PM
6.9% +20p + any currency conversion charge. Illogical, whichever way you look at it.
Yes gfm fee 5%, plus transaction fee 1.9% + 20p. It's logical and far more efficient than a certain other fund Misty. And the joy of it is there is no £38K website admin charge and no £100K deduction for receipts problems.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on October 29, 2015, 09:25:24 PM
Yes gfm fee 5%, plus transaction fee 1.9% + 20p. It's logical and far more efficient than a certain other fund Misty. And the joy of it is there is no £38K website admin charge and no £100K deduction for receipts problems.
Nicely put.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 09:39:50 PM
I did some calculations and worked out that in its 1st year the other fund (which later used some of the money to sue Mr Amaral) had costs of raising online donations which were closer to 10% of total online donations, which makes gfm's 5% seem very reasonable.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 29, 2015, 09:48:18 PM
Yes gfm fee 5%, plus transaction fee 1.9% + 20p. It's logical and far more efficient than a certain other fund Misty. And the joy of it is there is no £38K website admin charge and no £100K deduction for receipts problems.
The 38k website was a rip off. e-commerce at its worse.
The other difference is: one fund was used for lawyers without the donators knowing and, the other is going to be used WITH the donators knowing... funny ole world innit.
20 Pence debate to shock the world....against Gerrys hotel bill! (not to search for his daughter) Oh My.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 09:55:30 PM
I'm not referring to the deceptively generous double donation, merely the much smaller donations of, say, £20.
Despite your examination of the gofundme page it seems to have escaped your notice that people on low incomes were donating weekly because they couldn't pay larger amounts all at once. Splitting their donations was due to financial constraints, not to a desire to mislead anyone imo.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Despite your examination of the gofundme page it seems to have escaped your notice that people on low incomes were donating weekly because they couldn't pay larger amounts all at once. Splitting their donations was due to financial constraints, not to a desire to mislead anyone imo.
Nothing has escaped my notice, but the proof of someone asking people to split their donations between different names is freely available on one of those sites not in keeping with your own views.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 10:17:59 PM
I did some calculations and worked out that in its 1st year the other fund (which later used some of the money to sue Mr Amaral) had costs of raising online donations which were closer to 10% of total online donations, which makes gfm's 5% seem very reasonable.
You have no doubt done the same calculations on Amaral's overall operational costs to back up your claim?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 10:40:27 PM
Nothing has escaped my notice, but the proof of someone asking people to split their donations between different names is freely available on one of those sites not in keeping with your own views.
As I haven't seen that I'll have to ask you.Is there proof there that anyone took any notice?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
You'd have to ask the administrator of the GFM account about that.
So there were not lots of posts agreeing with the suggestion of splitting donations on this site you refer to then? It was suggested but no-one replied saying 'OK, I'll do that?'
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on October 29, 2015, 11:07:18 PM
So there were not lots of posts agreeing with the suggestion of splitting donations on this site you refer to then? It was suggested but no-one replied saying 'OK, I'll do that?'
I've no idea what any private replies may have said. There is only evidence of what was posted publicly. As I said, you'll have to ask the fund administrator.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on October 29, 2015, 11:24:04 PM
You have no doubt done the same calculations on Amaral's overall operational costs to back up your claim?
100% of the nett donations to PJGA are for paying Mr Amaral's lawyer.
The only costs are: 5% on GFM donations (compare with 10% for the DIY MFLNSU Ltd's website). Transaction fees to Paypal, Stripe etc (just like MFLNSU Ltd). Currency conversion fees (just like MFLNSU Ltd).
There are no other operational costs for PJGA Misty. Public relations and image-management costs = ZERO (Mr Amaral has no need for such rubbish).
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on October 29, 2015, 11:27:45 PM
Jesus christ almghty!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on October 29, 2015, 11:35:39 PM
What has that got to do with my post? You asked a question about the GFM fund and I answered it. i.e. The figure shown as the total number of people who have donated to GFM fund is false. And all the deflecting in the world won't change that.
So what if it is, its hardly of a criminal nature, so much ado about nothng at all....get a grip....if your argument had any merit at all you would first have to prove that the majority of the money was from a small number of people, which created the false impression that mr amaral had lots of supporters,this is untrue, so youre on a hiding to nowhere here
Why dont you challenge gerald mccann who tells you that the vast majority of the madeleine fund has been spent directly on search fees which is a shameless lie? well? why dont you?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 29, 2015, 11:56:17 PM
Ooh, I haven't hears of that. How about some details?
Gary Barlow
May 18 · .
Dear Gary
We are writing to you to ask for some support in any way you can over a matter we are trying to resolve. We know you must receive thousands of requests for help but please read the whole letter through before dismissing it.
We are part of a large group of people trying to find a sense of justice and an end to the farce of the Madeleine McCann case.
As you must be aware, the case has now been going on for 8 yrs she was reported missing in 2007 and hasn't been seen since.
Within an hour and a half without ensuring the Police had been informed the Media and Government were contacted and posters made of her using a photograph of when she was two and the pin prick iris fault embellished to look much bigger. Either to confuse the search as people would be looking for a child that looked much different or as Gerry said it was a good 'marketing ploy' the photo said, look at me i am little and cute, please give, look at me i am little and cute and i have got something wrong with me, please give more.
As you will be aware within eleven days a company was set up with very complicated articles in such a short space of time, not for profit so no corporation tax, allowing the directors to invest fund money in property, educational courses, and to lend money as an investment.
Despite having a multi million pound company and access to the top lawyers and media in the world, instead of using those resources to employ outstanding detectives in the first year to find her, they employed disreputable ones who had no experience of missing children.
The efforts of the fund or company has mostly been chanelled into litigation of the media or anyone who quotes what is in the Police files of both the Portugese and British Police that there was no evidence of an abduction.
You must surely be aware that for the past 5 years they have been in a heated damages case with the Lead Detective of the investigation at the time over his book, Sr Goncalo Amaral.
The McCanns have gone all out to destroy that man in every way possible, their PR feeding the British press with lies about a previous case of a missing child. What many people don't know is that childs mother Leonor Cipriano was making an appeal against her conviction and while this was happening the McCanns detectives Metodo 3 and Clarence Mitchell contacted the lawyer and asked them to get the other accused policemen involved to say it was all Sr Amaral's fault and they would get off with it. He was a reputable lawyer and refused so they found one who would. To this day, Sr Amaral is the only person in that case convicted off falsifying records, even though he didn't write them it was his men. A year later she admitted all of the claims of torture etc she made were false and her brother admitted they did kill the child even though her body still hasn't been found. Sr Amaral has not had the energy or finances to go back to court to clear his name as all of his time and money has gone into defending himself against the McCann's claims.
When Kate and Gerry McCann started the damages case against him they had his assets frozen, Now wages in Portugal are about a third of what they are here so instead of perhaps being paid £75,000 a year it would be £25,000. As he retired early his pension wasn't as much as it should have been only one third so probably £8,000. He has only had half of that amount to live on in the last 5 yrs as half of his pension was frozen for the McCann's as was all of the money he was paid for the book as was half of his house. They wanted all of his house seizing and were told by the courts they couldn't that half belonged to his wife so Kate McCann told the lawyer's make him get divorced I want his house. But it was never about the money she says in public. Sadly they did split up and the house on a middle class estate (not millionaire as msm make out) is boarded up, unable to be sold as half of it has been seized by the court.
This man should have been able to enjoy his retirement, and been putting his children through college. The only thing he is guilty of is causing the McCann's hurt feelings for writing the facts of the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in a book. For his sins he has been ordered to pay them half a million euros and he faces legal costs of about £300,000. He does not have a multi million pound company from public donations like the McCann's to take out law suits, super injunctions etc.
We feel this man and in fact Madeleine and anyone who speaks against the McCann's have been so badly treated.
Which is why we are asking you if you can help in any way possible. We have set up a fund to help toward his legal expenses (he will not accept help with his living expenses he feels as if it is begging and he is a very proud man)
However although we are doing very well with this fund and are very proud of ourselves we are aware that really it is only a drop in the ocean. We are hoping that yourself or people you know may be able to donate anonymously as we are aware that people really don't want their names associated with this case for political reasons. Thirty people who are able to if they donated £10,000 would have it all sorted, it is guaranteed all money raised is going into his friends account so the McCann's will not be able to touch it.
So please we implore you to help if you can and if not for whatever reason, pass this on to people who may be able and willing to.
With Kind Regards
Many many kind, decent, people on the Madeleine forums (not Trolls) Like · Comment 4 people like this.
I haven't put the identity of the sender on but I'm sure you know how to find it. There is another identical one to Olly Murs. Please note there is absolutely no reference to the GFM appeal on the letter, which was running at the time.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: jassi on November 04, 2015, 05:55:53 PM
Thank you. Never heard of either of these people, but then my interest in pop music waned in about 1970
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 04, 2015, 05:57:26 PM
If the organisers had wanted to change it they would have. It's not rocket science to see why they preferred to turn a blind eye to it. *In fact reading elsewhere it would seem people were encouraged to split their contributions into several small contributions instead of just one. Why do you think they would do that - if not to make the figures look better than they really were? *(I'm sure if I've got that wrong someone will correct me.)
You'll have a cite for that Benice ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 04, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
We are writing to you to ask for some support in any way you can over a matter we are trying to resolve. We know you must receive thousands of requests for help but please read the whole letter through before dismissing it.
We are part of a large group of people trying to find a sense of justice and an end to the farce of the Madeleine McCann case.
As you must be aware, the case has now been going on for 8 yrs she was reported missing in 2007 and hasn't been seen since.
Within an hour and a half without ensuring the Police had been informed the Media and Government were contacted and posters made of her using a photograph of when she was two and the pin prick iris fault embellished to look much bigger. Either to confuse the search as people would be looking for a child that looked much different or as Gerry said it was a good 'marketing ploy' the photo said, look at me i am little and cute, please give, look at me i am little and cute and i have got something wrong with me, please give more.
As you will be aware within eleven days a company was set up with very complicated articles in such a short space of time, not for profit so no corporation tax, allowing the directors to invest fund money in property, educational courses, and to lend money as an investment.
Despite having a multi million pound company and access to the top lawyers and media in the world, instead of using those resources to employ outstanding detectives in the first year to find her, they employed disreputable ones who had no experience of missing children.
The efforts of the fund or company has mostly been chanelled into litigation of the media or anyone who quotes what is in the Police files of both the Portugese and British Police that there was no evidence of an abduction.
You must surely be aware that for the past 5 years they have been in a heated damages case with the Lead Detective of the investigation at the time over his book, Sr Goncalo Amaral.
The McCanns have gone all out to destroy that man in every way possible, their PR feeding the British press with lies about a previous case of a missing child. What many people don't know is that childs mother Leonor Cipriano was making an appeal against her conviction and while this was happening the McCanns detectives Metodo 3 and Clarence Mitchell contacted the lawyer and asked them to get the other accused policemen involved to say it was all Sr Amaral's fault and they would get off with it. He was a reputable lawyer and refused so they found one who would. To this day, Sr Amaral is the only person in that case convicted off falsifying records, even though he didn't write them it was his men. A year later she admitted all of the claims of torture etc she made were false and her brother admitted they did kill the child even though her body still hasn't been found. Sr Amaral has not had the energy or finances to go back to court to clear his name as all of his time and money has gone into defending himself against the McCann's claims.
When Kate and Gerry McCann started the damages case against him they had his assets frozen, Now wages in Portugal are about a third of what they are here so instead of perhaps being paid £75,000 a year it would be £25,000. As he retired early his pension wasn't as much as it should have been only one third so probably £8,000. He has only had half of that amount to live on in the last 5 yrs as half of his pension was frozen for the McCann's as was all of the money he was paid for the book as was half of his house. They wanted all of his house seizing and were told by the courts they couldn't that half belonged to his wife so Kate McCann told the lawyer's make him get divorced I want his house. But it was never about the money she says in public. Sadly they did split up and the house on a middle class estate (not millionaire as msm make out) is boarded up, unable to be sold as half of it has been seized by the court.
This man should have been able to enjoy his retirement, and been putting his children through college. The only thing he is guilty of is causing the McCann's hurt feelings for writing the facts of the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in a book. For his sins he has been ordered to pay them half a million euros and he faces legal costs of about £300,000. He does not have a multi million pound company from public donations like the McCann's to take out law suits, super injunctions etc.
We feel this man and in fact Madeleine and anyone who speaks against the McCann's have been so badly treated.
Which is why we are asking you if you can help in any way possible. We have set up a fund to help toward his legal expenses (he will not accept help with his living expenses he feels as if it is begging and he is a very proud man)
However although we are doing very well with this fund and are very proud of ourselves we are aware that really it is only a drop in the ocean. We are hoping that yourself or people you know may be able to donate anonymously as we are aware that people really don't want their names associated with this case for political reasons. Thirty people who are able to if they donated £10,000 would have it all sorted, it is guaranteed all money raised is going into his friends account so the McCann's will not be able to touch it.
So please we implore you to help if you can and if not for whatever reason, pass this on to people who may be able and willing to.
With Kind Regards
Many many kind, decent, people on the Madeleine forums (not Trolls) Like · Comment 4 people like this.
I haven't put the identity of the sender on but I'm sure you know how to find it. There is another identical one to Olly Murs. Please note there is absolutely no reference to the GFM appeal on the letter, which was running at the time.
@)(++(* I've not seen this before, how funny and how desperate, but I hear it worked! All proceeds from the new Take That and Olly Murs singles are going straight to the 'Poor Portuguese Bent Ex-Cop Retirement Fund'!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 04, 2015, 06:48:17 PM
@)(++(* I've not seen this before, how funny and how desperate, but I hear it worked! All proceeds from the new Take That and Olly Murs singles are going straight to the 'Poor Portuguese Bent Ex-Cop Retirement Fund'!
But it does make you wonder how many rich/famous people have been approached in the preceding years to contribute to the begging bowl. No surprise PJGA are so reluctant to be transparent with their accounts.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 04, 2015, 06:51:33 PM
But it does make you wonder how many rich/famous people have been approached in the preceding years to contribute to the begging bowl. No surprise PJGA are so reluctant to be transparent with their accounts.
I think if they'd been successful in their appeal to the rich and famous we'd never be hearing the end of it, quite frankly.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on November 04, 2015, 06:55:41 PM
But it does make you wonder how many rich/famous people have been approached in the preceding years to contribute to the begging bowl. No surprise PJGA are so reluctant to be transparent with their accounts.
How is it different to the mccanns begging bowl? Of 8 years? Plus and especially when theyve had many millions more than the begging bowl
In many ways it is far more transparent and moral....Amarals fund is for monies to defend hmself (one aim and a limit on what was needed) whilst being straightjacketed by the mccanns, and reading that facebook entry shocked me when reading Kate Mccann wanted Amaral to divorce so she could benefit wtf??, the Mccanns fund was alledgedly to look for Madeleine but not much of it was spent on that was it? And their fund has not been transparent.
I suggest you put behind you your prejudice and hatred of the man, it may leave you open to a clearer mind If you cant see this IS a david and goliath situation, well, thats that then
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: stephen25000 on November 04, 2015, 09:32:38 PM
How is it different to the mccanns begging bowl? Of 8 years? Plus and especially when theyve had many millions more than the begging bowl
In many ways it is far more transparent and moral....Amarals fund is for monies to defend hmself (one aim and a limit on what was needed) whilst being straightjacketed by the mccanns, and reading that facebook entry shocked me when reading Kate Mccann wanted Amaral to divorce so she could benefit wtf??, the Mccanns fund was alledgedly to look for Madeleine but not much of it was spent on that was it? And their fund has not been transparent.
I suggest you put behind you your prejudice and hatred of the man, it may leave you open to a clearer mind If you cant see this IS a david and goliath situation, well, thats that then
Perhaps one of the mccanns supporters would care to remind us of how much of the fund was spent on 'searching' ?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 04, 2015, 09:34:23 PM
And which was in the public domain which makes it really brazen... Which makes you wonder what else they lied about....but you must be an evil troll to wonder instead of just believing i suppose lol
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 04, 2015, 09:48:52 PM
How is it different to the mccanns begging bowl? Of 8 years? Plus and especially when theyve had many millions more than the begging bowl
In many ways it is far more transparent and moral....Amarals fund is for monies to defend hmself (one aim and a limit on what was needed) whilst being straightjacketed by the mccanns, and reading that facebook entry shocked me when reading Kate Mccann wanted Amaral to divorce so she could benefit wtf??, the Mccanns fund was alledgedly to look for Madeleine but not much of it was spent on that was it? And their fund has not been transparent.
I suggest you put behind you your prejudice and hatred of the man, it may leave you open to a clearer mind If you cant see this IS a david and goliath situation, well, thats that then
Are you actually defending those open letters to 2 popstars which beg for money for a foreigner's retirement fund? Dearie me. How much searching for Madeleine are Amaral & his merry bunch of retired ex-detective mates currently undertaking in the name of justice for her?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 04, 2015, 10:10:19 PM
Are you actually defending those open letters to 2 popstars which beg for money for a foreigner's retirement fund? Dearie me. How much searching for Madeleine are Amaral & his merry bunch of retired ex-detective mates currently undertaking in the name of justice for her?
Its none of your business what funds they might want to raise And its not up to Amaral to raise funds to look for Madeleine, do you actually know what you are saying? The parents have had millions poured in so why do you want his defence fund his housd and pension?
It was the parents responsibility to safeguard her, they took big risks and now they want someone else to pay? Ie in monetary value? Purleese
How about the Mccanns total fund , house and future pensions be removed? And what was that abut Kate Mccann asking for ghem to get divorced?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 04, 2015, 10:11:57 PM
Its none of your business what funds they might want to raise And its not up to Amaral to raise funds to look for Madeleine, do you actually know what you are saying? The parents have had millions poured in so why do you want his defence fund his housd and pension?
It was the parents responsibility to safeguard her, they took big risks and now they want someone else to pay? Ie in monetary value? Purleese
How about the Mccanns total fund , house and future pensions be removed?
the mccanns aren't the ones that have broken the law amaral has
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 04, 2015, 10:24:38 PM
Its none of your business what funds they might want to raise And its not up to Amaral to raise funds to look for Madeleine, do you actually know what you are saying? The parents have had millions poured in so why do you want his defence fund his housd and pension?
It was the parents responsibility to safeguard her, they took big risks and now they want someone else to pay? Ie in monetary value? Purleese
How about the Mccanns total fund , house and future pensions be removed? And what was that abut Kate Mccann asking for ghem to get divorced?
Equally, then, it's none of your business how the McCanns wish to use money donated to them by wealthy benefactors. It's no business of yours how much SY spend on trying to do what Amaral & his team were paid to do, but failed. It's no business of your yours what actions the McCanns have to legally take to ensure Amaral does not profit in any way from his book of scurrilous allegations. The McCanns have lost their daughter. She is priceless.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 04, 2015, 10:32:43 PM
Equally, then, it's none of your business how the McCanns wish to use money donated to them by wealthy benefactors. It's no business of yours how much SY spend on trying to do what Amaral & his team were paid to do, but failed. It's no business of your yours what actions the McCanns have to legally take to ensure Amaral does not profit in any way from his book of scurrilous allegations. The McCanns have lost their daughter. She is priceless.
Emotional blackmail and manipulation rarely works
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: John on November 04, 2015, 11:36:48 PM
Topic please. TY
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 04, 2015, 11:54:36 PM
Not misty I meant a reputable cite, not another supporter's fetid imaginings.
It seems to me that you have the same approach to screen shots as 'evidence' as you do to newspaper reports. i.e. if they are 'pro' McCann articles then you quickly point out they are unreliable because they are newspaper reports - but if they are 'anti' McCann in your eyes - then you promote them as reliable evidence.
Easy peasy to make a case against anyone about anything - using those 'pick and choose' tactics IMO.
Thank goodness SY don't work like that.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 05, 2015, 07:28:32 PM
It seems to me that you have the same approach to screen shots as 'evidence' as you do to newspaper reports. i.e. if they are 'pro' McCann articles then you quickly point out they are unreliable because they are newspaper reports - but if they are 'anti' McCann in your eyes - then you promote them as reliable evidence.
Easy peasy to make a case against anyone about anything - using those 'pick and choose' tactics IMO.
Thank goodness SY don't work like that.
I have asked Faithlilly for a list of sources that meet with her approval but so far it hasn't been forthcoming. I guess as you say it depends very much on what the source is saying.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
Sofia Leal tried that strategy with her open letter to Kate McCann. Do you think it influenced people to support the "underdog"?
In your opinion, whereas the only simple fact is that it was a response to an attack on her husband via two fronts by K Mccann...if your wife was slagged off I dread to think what your words in response might be, and in that vein, KM got off very lightly
I thought it was rather a measured and good response, do read it again! It is here towards the last quarter of the page
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id163.html
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 05, 2015, 08:01:19 PM
In your opinion, whereas the only simple fact is that it was a response to an attack on her husband via two fronts by K Mccann...if your wife was slagged off I dread to think what your words in response might be, and in that vein, KM got off very lightly
I thought it was rather a measured and good response, do read it again! It is here towards the last quarter of the page
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id163.html
An absolutely unprecedented event which leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth of all but people who may not know what appropriate behaviour is. What on earth did she think she was doing?
**Snip " To finish, on the intimate subject of Gonçalo Amaral, I can only tell you that he is exactly as the Latinos have a reputation for: a wild one, and my modesty does not allow me to say any more." Sofia Leal
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 08:04:42 PM
How so cherrypickingly predictable and droll
The whole letter
Open letter: Wife of Gonçalo Amaral reacts with irony to attack by Kate
17 September 2008 - 00h30 Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
Open letter to Mrs Kate Healy
Dear Madam,
You will forgive my boldness, but after I read your comment (in an interview to Expresso newspaper) concerning Gonçalo Amaral, my husband and the father of my daughters, I cannot avoid sending you these words of gratefulness. For many years, I have been trying to make myself heard in this sentiment that unites us both: "…as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace."
Look at it closely:
a) Professionally
- As a Coordinator of Criminal Investigation for the Polícia Judiciária, my husband has always refused to sit around from 9 to 5 in the comfortable chair in his office, as his hierarchical status implies. Instead, he spent the day (and very often, the night) with the investigators on the terrain, coordinating searches, surveillances, apprehensions and other diligences 'in loco'. A disgrace!
But if it was only the fact that he was subject to the weather, it wouldn't be serious, as our climate is not too bad, as you know. The problem is that this dedication to the cause has earned him a non promotion in his career. Indeed, I will explain this to you, even because this case happened when the searches for your daughter were under way. My husband applied to the category of Superior Coordinator, and in between drug apprehensions, sequestrations and homicides, he somehow managed to produce a thesis about drug trafficking by sea, which he defended in Lisbon, in front of a Jury that congratulated him. Full of hope, Gonçalo Amaral returns to the Algarve and awaits the result. To his surprise, he was passed over by other colleagues (real coordinators, truth be told), because he had not been able to score points in the "professional formation" parameter. That's right, Mrs Kate, my husband spent his life working, involved in complex investigations, he was the man who apprehended the highest volumes of drugs in Portugal, but given the fact that he had no time to go to Lisbon to parade himself up and down the corridors of the PJ's Institute, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!
- As you probably know, even because you seem like a very well informed person to me, my husband's salary was less than 1.5 times the lowest salary in your country. But as a wife, as a mother and as a Portuguese citizen, I can't complain, because Gonçalo Amaral's salary was equal to 4.5 times the lowest salary in Portugal. But pay attention to the following, which is an example of what I'm going to explain next: At some point, an individual shoots a member of the PSP [urban police] and flees into neighbouring Spain. A PJ team follows him, including my husband. They stayed there for over two weeks. Now at that time, the international expense coverage was around 100 euros. As you can easily imagine, it's not possible to sleep and eat in Spain with this amount of money, much less shortly before Christmas and taking into account that the value will only be paid at around Easter time (if one's lucky). But Gonçalo Amaral never refused, not even for one day, to search for the escaped murderer, relaying the expenses onto our family accounts. And this is just one example among many. At some point in time, I suggested that we should create a fund or something similar to deal with these extraordinary expenses, but he never listened to me. You see, we also have mortgages to pay around here… A disgrace, Mrs Kate, a disgrace!
b) As a person, his behaviour has also been a disgrace, because to begin with we could never distinguish that he even had a personal life, due to the manner in which he dealt with the profession that he embraced. But if my good friend Mrs Kate allows me, I can offer you some examples:
- 5 years ago, a child named Joana "disappeared". Her mother, just like you, Mrs Kate, tried to project the case into the media, but she didn't make it any further than SIC…
Eight days later, came the confessions and the evidence: during an incestuous act between mother and uncle, the child was beaten, then dismembered and her body dumped who knows where. Mother and uncle went to jail, in a process that was coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral and which earned them almost 20 years in jail, each. But let us go a bit back in time. The child died on the 12th of September. On Christmas eve, our family was reunited for prayer, when my husband asked me to prepare a bag with some food and warm clothes, because he had not carried out his Christmas act of penance. Can you, Mrs Kate, imagine where Gonçalo Amaral went on that Christmas night under heavy rain and thunder? He went to the Olhão Prison, where João Cipriano, Joana's uncle, a confessed murderer and a clinically diagnosed psychopath, is detained. According to my husband, to simply offer an alimony to some beggar was not a sacrifice to him. The fact that he embraced and shared his Christmas meal with João Cipriano was the sacrifice that he offered to God, in memory of Joana. Is this not a disgrace? You should also know that every year, on the 12th of September, my husband has a mass celebrated in memory of Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro. He says that nobody will ever remember the poor little girl again. Right, but they remember to unjustly accuse him of actions and crimes that he never committed. Isn't this a disgrace, Mrs Kate?
- There is a last episode that I will report to you, one that I still find hard to talk about. Last year, in May, we started to move our family to Portimão. My husband was supposed to enjoy a holiday period starting on the day after your daughter's disappearance. "For obvious reasons" that didn't happen. I started on a new job, looked for a house, moved house, and tried to integrate our daughters in new schools and new routines. All of this I did alone, without any help from my husband, who for obvious reasons, was looking for your daughter, Mrs Kate. In October, on his birthday, a week after our daughters started school, Gonçalo Amaral was dismissed and returned to Faro. This was supposed to be the time of the family's reunion and it turned out to be another separation. Isn't this a disgrace? Our daughters never managed to understand, and we never managed to explain to them what obvious reasons were those that rewarded in this manner a father who left his own daughters to go looking for a child that he had never met and whose parents had neglected her. It was a pity that my dear friend Mrs Kate was not around anymore at that date, because you could have been very helpful to me in explaining these "obvious reasons" that led to their father's dismissal, to our daughters.
Finally, I can only report to you that intimately, Gonçalo Amaral is precisely what the latinos are famed for: shameless, as my pudency does not allow me to write any further.
I ask you, my good friend, to forgive these confidences from a wife and mother, but I'm certain that you will understand. I finish this letter asking you to send your mother my most sincere praises. She sounded so sincere to me, when during an interview she referred that she felt like slapping the face of the person who left her grandchildren alone. She spoke so openly that she sounded like a genuine Portuguese grandmother…
My dear friend Mrs Kate, without wishing to bother you any further, I would like to request one last favour from you: now that you have started to tell some truths, please continue, and let the world hear the truth that it has been waiting for.
Best regards, Sofia Leal Wife and Mother of the Daughters of Gonçalo Amaral
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: carlymichelle on November 05, 2015, 08:09:11 PM
An absolutely unprecedented event which leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth of all but people who may not know what appropriate behaviour is. What on earth did she think she was doing?
**Snip " To finish, on the intimate subject of Gonçalo Amaral, I can only tell you that he is exactly as the Latinos have a reputation for: a wild one, and my modesty does not allow me to say any more." Sofia Leal
It's called letting the world know he is a normal person and not the pantomime villain as portrayed by some.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: carlymichelle on November 05, 2015, 08:15:53 PM
Do you mean callng him Mr Amaral? As the majority of Mccann supporters often do and as he is described in the official Mccanns Fund accounts? (but of course it is always must be a typing error)
8)--))
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: carlymichelle on November 05, 2015, 08:36:08 PM
Do you mean callng him Mr Amaral? As the majority of Mccann supporters often do and as he is described in the official Mccanns Fund accounts? (but of course it is always must be a typing error)
8)--))
@)(++(* i meant they call him A M O R A L the forum censored it
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 05, 2015, 08:38:41 PM
It's called letting the world know he is a normal person and not the pantomime villain as portrayed by some.
Hmmm, interesting you should think it shows either of them in a particularly good light. In my opinion it is one of the most distasteful episodes associated with these people and gives the world a view of exactly who they are.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 08:39:34 PM
Oh, I see Carly, yes, its done the same to my post, good one!
8((()*/
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 05, 2015, 08:40:04 PM
Hmmm, interesting you should think it shows either of them in a particularly good light. In my opinion it is one of the most distasteful episodes associated with these people and gives the world a view of exactly who they are.
In the words if John McEnroe....
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 09:10:36 PM
How many times did the mccanns refer to Madeleine as Daughter A little girl A child The child
If the parents cant call her by her name its a bit rich criticising others for not doing so
One letter against many months of appeals, interviews & litigation. The case is all about Madeleine McCann. Not Goncalo Amaral, his shameless reputation or Sofia Leal's monetary needs.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
One letter against many months of appeals, interviews & litigation. The case is all about Madeleine McCann. Not Goncalo Amaral, his shameless reputation or Sofia Leal's monetary needs.
Bit of skewed thinking there...but I agree it shouldnt be about anyones monetary needs! Unless one party has taken the liberty to remove monies from another and even more brazenly if all news reports are true they demand a defendant get divorced so they can get more money from them Pretty disgraceful at every level Im sure you would agree
&%+((£
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 05, 2015, 10:03:31 PM
Bit of skewed thinking there...but I agree it shouldnt be about anyones monetary needs! Unless one party has taken the liberty to remove monies from another and even more brazenly if all news reports are true they demand a defendant get divorced so they can get more money from them Pretty disgraceful at every level Im sure you would agree
&%+((£
you believe that the mccanns demanded amaral get divorced.... @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 05, 2015, 10:09:15 PM
Bit of skewed thinking there...but I agree it shouldnt be about anyones monetary needs! Unless one party has taken the liberty to remove monies from another and even more brazenly if all news reports are true they demand a defendant get divorced so they can get more money from them Pretty disgraceful at every level Im sure you would agree
&%+((£
I don't think you should believe everything you read in the Portuguese press, Mercury. But it was a court's decision to issue an injunction freezing Amaral's assets, not the McCanns.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 10:12:07 PM
I don't think you should believe everything you read in the Portuguese press, Mercury. But it was a court's decision to issue an injunction freezing Amaral's assets, not the McCanns.
If they hadnt demanded a million euros there would be no freezing...but they said it wasnt abut the money so why not issue a writ for one euro?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 05, 2015, 10:44:21 PM
Would a writ for one euro have achieved the objective?
The objective was to remove his book from sale..(.even though they left it for a whole year before taking action...and in secret).....not to manifest Kate Mccann's revengeful desires as in "he deserves to be miserable and feel fear
Well reminded GU
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 05, 2015, 11:07:19 PM
The objective was to remove his book from sale..(.even though they left it for a whole year before taking action...and in secret).....not to manifest Kate Mccann's revengeful desires as in "he deserves to be miserable and feel fear
Well reminded GU
They had failed in the book-banning route. Trying to ensure that the man didn't profit from the sales of his book was the only alternative route. The McCanns weren't claiming for any assets Amaral held prior to publication of the book. Other financial difficulties & fear were of his own making.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 11:14:16 PM
They had failed in the book-banning route. Trying to ensure that the man didn't profit from the sales of his book was the only alternative route. The McCanns weren't claiming for any assets Amaral held prior to publication of the book. Other financial difficulties & fear were of his own making.
Maybe we have been reading different sites? and papers?
The Mccanns did not fail in the book banning route...it was the first decision in this year long battle given by the court judge, his book was banned
As for not claiming for assets made before well they would have to be kamikaze pilots to try that one....its too preposterous for anyone to suggest they could have.......in the case they tried to claim the whole lot for themselves....you know, the illicit gains...but of course with a very heavy heart!!! Yeah right misty
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 05, 2015, 11:23:40 PM
Maybe we have been reading different sites? and papers?
The Mccanns did not fail in the book banning route...it was the first decision in this year long battle given by the court judge, his book was banned
As for not claiming for assets made before well they would have to be kamikaze pilots to try that one....its too preposterous for anyone to suggest they could have.......in the case they tried to claim the whole lot for themselves....you know, the illicit gains...but of course with a very heavy heart!!! Yeah right misty
Did you miss out on 2010 by any chance?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 05, 2015, 11:28:29 PM
You seem to think the book was banned. It quickly became unbanned in 2010.
Their mllion pound writ was there frm the start banned or unbanned...stop twisting things and changng goalposts
Anyway im so glad he got 52k for lawyers fees..for the david and goliath debacle.....an infitesimal amount compared to the funds garnered by the mccanns of around 5 m with no transparency and ..with unclear aims...the very fact you compare the two is actually extremly laughable at best See ya later
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 05, 2015, 11:52:55 PM
Their mllion pound writ was there frm the start banned or unbanned...stop twisting things and changng goalposts
Anyway im so glad he got 52k for lawyers fees..for the david and goliath debacle.....an infitesimal amount compared to the funds garnered by the mccanns of around 5 m with no transparency and ..with unclear aims...the very fact you compare the two is actually extremly laughable at best See ya later
The £1m was to allow for the potential profits from future book/DVD sales. I wonder how much his slush fund got from the begging letters and other sources in Portugal? It's so difficult to compare the 2 funds, don't you agree?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 06, 2015, 12:04:20 AM
The £1m was to allow for the potential profits from future book/DVD sales. I wonder how much his slush fund got from the begging letters and other sources in Portugal? It's so difficult to compare the 2 funds, don't you agree?
How can you claim a million from potential future sales if your writ is for establshed and saturated sales and a banning? That spin just doesnt work well.
And no its not difficult to compare 5m d a few thousand, that not even the authorities have asked for a return in yet
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on November 06, 2015, 12:08:20 PM
The £1m was to allow for the potential profits from future book/DVD sales. I wonder how much his slush fund got from the begging letters and other sources in Portugal? It's so difficult to compare the 2 funds, don't you agree?
What these begging letters ? From the Daily Record :
'THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann admitted yesterday that most of the money donated to help trace her has been spent.
The Find Madeleine Fund, set up soon after the three-year-old was abducted, once topped £2million.
But after more than three years of searching, there is less than £300,000 left.
Before now, Kate and Gerr y McCann, both 42, have always refused to ask for donations.
But with money drying up, investigators to be paid and the costs of the ongoing search, Gerry has penned a fundraising letter.
It will be sent today to friends and celebrity supporters, including David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo, Sir Richard Branson and JK Rowling.'
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 06, 2015, 12:23:17 PM
The £1m was to allow for the potential profits from future book/DVD sales. I wonder how much his slush fund got from the begging letters and other sources in Portugal? It's so difficult to compare the 2 funds, don't you agree?
Not really; they are both begging bowls held out to the public seeking donations from that same public to fund legal actions of one sort or another. The public have no control howsoever the funds are spent and unless it is proven to be fraudulent in a court of law the public have no means of redress even if they want it.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 06, 2015, 12:55:21 PM
What these begging letters ? From the Daily Record :
'THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann admitted yesterday that most of the money donated to help trace her has been spent.
The Find Madeleine Fund, set up soon after the three-year-old was abducted, once topped £2million.
But after more than three years of searching, there is less than £300,000 left.
Before now, Kate and Gerr y McCann, both 42, have always refused to ask for donations.
But with money drying up, investigators to be paid and the costs of the ongoing search, Gerry has penned a fundraising letter.
It will be sent today to friends and celebrity supporters, including David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo, Sir Richard Branson and JK Rowling.'
Bravo! But there's a world of difference between writing to friends & people who've already offered support to finance further searches, compared to writing to strangers in a foreign country for funds to cover debts you've racked up (& continued to) with blatant disregard as to how those costs were going to be met. Do you have a copy of Gerry's letter?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 06, 2015, 07:48:39 PM
"Please sign our petition" versus "just give us £10k". I can see why you chose not to post Gerry's full, open letter.
"02 Nov 2010 ... The fund has allowed: ... A 24 hour telephone line with translators to receive information from the public" http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/full-letter-written-gerry-mccann-3389405
"29 Aug 2010 ... for a year nobody even asked his company if they could listen to any of the calls received" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231757/Madeleine-McCann-investigator-didnt-listen-ANY-tip-offs-given-hotline--squandered-500-000.html
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 03:35:39 PM
"02 Nov 2010 ... The fund has allowed: ... A 24 hour telephone line with translators to receive information from the public" http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/full-letter-written-gerry-mccann-3389405
"29 Aug 2010 ... for a year nobody even asked his company if they could listen to any of the calls received" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231757/Madeleine-McCann-investigator-didnt-listen-ANY-tip-offs-given-hotline--squandered-500-000.html
The 24hr hotline was the Metado3 one, apparently complete with translators. The US hotline, organised by Halligan, wasn't paid for its services. His record as a fraudster speaks for itself & I don't think you can blame the Fund directors in any way for that.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 03:44:05 PM
The 24hr hotline was the Metado3 one, apparently complete with translators. The US hotline, organised by Halligan, wasn't paid for its services. His record as a fraudster speaks for itself & I don't think you can blame the Fund directors in any way for that.
There was me imagining that the parents and their PR man and the directors would have been keenly monitoring every week the response from that hotline they paid for in the US
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 04:13:33 PM
There was me imagining that the parents and their PR man and the directors would have been keenly monitoring every week the response from that hotline they paid for in the US [/quote
We don't know what BS was being fed to the FMF by Halligan. All above top secret stuff, probably. Now, can we have an itemised list of legal expenses presented to PJGA?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 04:38:23 PM
(snip) ...Now, can we have an itemised list of legal expenses presented to PJGA?
I will post that if you post itemised expenses presented to MFLNSUL by the twelve lawyer companies who they hired to search for the child Misty. And show me the invoices for the dozens of torches and sturdy boots those lawyers must surely have purchased to enable them to search effectively.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
*snip* "Mr Selle said his operators, in Annapolis, Virginia, had answered 'hundreds of calls', but the information seemed wasted - possibly squandering valuable leads.
He said: 'We delivered Oakley a report with a summary of the calls and said if they wanted to come back they could listen to the recording, but nobody did.
'For someone with an understanding of the case it would be very easy for some to say that maybe 80 or 90 per cent of the calls were hogwash, but there may be a percentage where one would say maybe we should listen to this one or listen to that one. But our understanding is that this never took place.
'We are not sure whether Halligen provided our report to the family or to the trust or to those working with them or to the teams working after him, because no one came back to us."
(snip)... Equally, there is no evidence the Fund directors did not see the report containing details of the calls.
If the parents or their spokesman or directors did see the "report with a summary of the calls" wouldn't you expect them to enquire further and ask to listen to some of them? But the call-centre operator says no-one asked.
It is rather cheeky to insinuate there is anything improper at all with PJGA, when there are dozens of questions about the fund which financed the libel case against Mr Amaral. All PJGA does is pay Mr Amaral's lawyer in a libel case which MFLNSUL paid to launch even though its documents at company house say they can spend money only on search.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 07, 2015, 05:11:23 PM
If the parents or their spokesman or directors did see the "report with a summary of the calls" wouldn't you expect them to enquire further and ask to listen to some of them? But the call-centre operator says no-one asked.
Not if they were told none of the calls had provided any leads
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 05:24:37 PM
Not if they were told none of the calls had provided any leads
Well I suggest you read the ch docs Davel and the good practice code too - I don't see anything there like "Clause 42: Oh BTW if someone says everything's fine there's no need to check".
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 06:17:38 PM
If the parents or their spokesman or directors did see the "report with a summary of the calls" wouldn't you expect them to enquire further and ask to listen to some of them? But the call-centre operator says no-one asked.
It is rather cheeky to insinuate there is anything improper at all with PJGA, when there are dozens of questions about the fund which financed the libel case against Mr Amaral. All PJGA does is pay Mr Amaral's lawyer in a libel case which MFLNSUL paid to launch even though its documents at company house say they can spend money only on search.
Not cheeky - just asking for transparency in light of the GFM account set up to add funds to an existing account containing an unspecified amount accessed by unspecified people for purposes stated only on the internet.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: slartibartfast on November 07, 2015, 06:48:31 PM
*snip* "Mr Selle said his operators, in Annapolis, Virginia, had answered 'hundreds of calls', but the information seemed wasted - possibly squandering valuable leads.
He said: 'We delivered Oakley a report with a summary of the calls and said if they wanted to come back they could listen to the recording, but nobody did.
'For someone with an understanding of the case it would be very easy for some to say that maybe 80 or 90 per cent of the calls were hogwash, but there may be a percentage where one would say maybe we should listen to this one or listen to that one. But our understanding is that this never took place.
'We are not sure whether Halligen provided our report to the family or to the trust or to those working with them or to the teams working after him, because no one came back to us."
Not cheeky - just asking for transparency in light of the GFM account set up to add funds to an existing account containing an unspecified amount accessed by unspecified people for purposes stated only on the internet.
But there is not any hint of PJGA using funds for anything other than its one stated purpose. Please show us the MFLNSU Ltd's figures for how much it spent financing a very expensive libel action which BTW is nowhere in its stated aims and never has been.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 07:30:14 PM
So Gerry was sending out begging letters at a time Kate was writing her book to raise funds. Is that correct ?
It was an open letter to sign a petition to get the investigation reviewed - you remember, the one that the PJ shelved despite not following up on Smithman/Crecheman & a multitude of other irrelevant points. Gerry's letter included details of the FMF & what it had already paid for - it did not include the words "Thirty people who are able to if they donated £10,000 would have it all sorted, it is guaranteed all money raised is going into his friends account so the McCann's will not be able to touch it."
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 07:31:38 PM
But there is not any hint of PJGA using funds for anything other than its one stated purpose. Please show us the MFLNSU Ltd's figures for how much it spent financing a very expensive libel action which BTW is nowhere in its stated aims and never has been.
There is not a hint of anything PJGA paid for. Not a single item.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 07, 2015, 07:32:13 PM
But there is not any hint of PJGA using funds for anything other than its one stated purpose. Please show us the MFLNSU Ltd's figures for how much it spent financing a very expensive libel action which BTW is nowhere in its stated aims and never has been.
We don't really know that though, do we? Since we never have sight of accounts we are expected to take on trust what we are told?? Strange coming from a quarter which demands accountability for the spending on every staple used by Madeleine's account.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 07, 2015, 07:35:47 PM
We don't really know that though, do we? Since we never have sight of accounts we are expected to take on trust what we are told?? Strange coming from a quarter which demands accountability for the spending on every staple used by Madeleine's account.
Will you be kind enough to show the post where that was suggested.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 07, 2015, 08:10:48 PM
Well I suggest you read the ch docs Davel and the good practice code too - I don't see anything there like "Clause 42: Oh BTW if someone says everything's fine there's no need to check".
details of all phone calls were passed to halligens outfit.....would you be surprised if none of the phone calls produced any valuable information...I wouldn't. there may well have been nothing worth listening to
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 07, 2015, 08:17:45 PM
details of all phone calls were passed to halligens outfit.....would you be surprised if none of the phone calls produced any valuable information...I wouldn't. there may well have been nothing worth listening to
I wonder whether the thousands of donators and the hundreds of callers would be impressed Davel. I have checked at CH and no the name has not been changed to MFLAPUT Ltd - maybe you could suggest it?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 08:47:53 PM
I wonder whether the thousands of donators and the hundreds of callers would be impressed Davel. I have checked at CH and no the name has not been changed to MFLAPUT Ltd - maybe you could suggest it?
This thread is about GFM, where the money ended up & what it may have been spent on. Any advances on the zero data currently in the public domain?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 09:21:10 PM
This thread is about GFM, where the money ended up & what it may have been spent on. Any advances on the zero data currently in the public domain?
PJGA have stated that they have paid about half the total donations to Mr Amaral's lawyer and are holding the rest for possible future payments to Mr Amaral's lawyer. This is the stated object of PJGA. BTW this is necessary to enable Mr Amaral to fight a libel case which was launched from the unknowing pockets of donators to another fund which does not have launching libel cases listed anywhere in its stated objects.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 07, 2015, 09:28:37 PM
Why are you unable to contribute to a discussion ... sorry ... forgot. Didn't you once post that was not the object of your presence here?
I notice there are some of my posts , even ones directed at you, that you steer well clear of. I guess that is because like the particular question you are ducking here you either have no answer or are too embarrassed to give it, your customary sneering notwithstanding. It rather looks like I hit the inner again ?>)()<
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 07, 2015, 09:30:02 PM
PJGA have stated that they have paid about half the total donations to Mr Amaral's lawyer and are holding the rest for possible future payments to Mr Amaral's lawyer. This is the stated object of PJGA. BTW this is necessary to enable Mr Amaral to fight a libel case which was launched from the unknowing pockets of donators to another fund which does not have launching libel cases listed anywhere in its stated objects.
theres a very simple answer to that...do the PJGA not understand this is NOT a LIBEL case....and they being Portuguese and all that
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 07, 2015, 09:33:49 PM
This thread is about GFM, where the money ended up & what it may have been spent on. Any advances on the zero data currently in the public domain?
No! but I presume it was spent on his legal costs as that is what it was asked for. Do you have evidence to suggest the contrary? If so perhaps you will be good enough to share it with us?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 09:47:44 PM
No! but I presume it was spent on his legal costs as that is what it was asked for. Do you have evidence to suggest the contrary? If so perhaps you will be good enough to share it with us?
Agreed Alice. Some find it inconvenient to accept that a group of real friends set up a fund to help Mr Amaral with legal costs, and have used that money exclusively and honestly on that one clearly stated object.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 07, 2015, 10:02:59 PM
Agreed Alice. Some find it inconvenient to accept that a group of real friends set up a fund to help Mr Amaral with legal costs, and have used that money exclusively and honestly on that one clearly stated object.
its a shame the man it is being used on is dishonest....according to the Portuguese courts
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 07, 2015, 10:05:40 PM
"Please sign our petition" versus "just give us £10k". I can see why you chose not to post Gerry's full, open letter.
Errr...excuse me, but you asked for a link, and no one had replied for a while, I did a quick google search and up it popped, the request for donations was in it....I was not involved in the ins and outs and minutae of your discussion, I was trying to be helpful...next time remind me to remind you to do your own donkey work!
And if you "saw" anything in my just providing the link and not posting the whole article, then you are seeing things!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 07, 2015, 10:13:13 PM
I notice there are some of my posts , even ones directed at you, that you steer well clear of. I guess that is because like the particular question you are ducking here you either have no answer or are too embarrassed to give it, your customary sneering notwithstanding. It rather looks like I hit the inner again ?>)()<
Having scrutinised my posts you may have noticed there are some posters I seldom address ... I think you may possibly be one ... not for any other reason than I seldom find anything you have to say of particular note. Although you do insist on responding to some of mine. Whether I find your response interesting enough to merit a reply is entirely a matter for me.
I do however find it rather touching that it is expected that everything to do with the GFM appeals on behalf of Mr Amaral is to be seen as squeaky clean by those who support the invention of 'fraudulent' into everything associated with benefiting the search for a missing child.
Now where did I put that dictionary to check on 'hypocrisy' ... I'm sure it must have a place in this somewhere.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 07, 2015, 10:21:29 PM
So Gerry was sending out begging letters at a time Kate was writing her book to raise funds. Is that correct ?
Yes, donations were solicited at the same time as KM was writing or near finalised her book. Im not sure why (not that I care) as it will have been a given fact that it would be a bestseller bringing in buckets load more money than a request for donations which had more or less dried up,not to mention the extra half a million paid by the Sun and confirmed by Brookes in court, for the serialisation rights
And at the time or a month or so thereafter KM appeared on GMTV and said her role in the campaign was income generation
I read the list of the things donations could be put to use for....just a tenner for a thousand or was it 10,000posters......where are they? Back in the day 2008 they said they spent 80k on posters in Portugal Spain and Morocco ...where were they? An Al Jazeera documentary made noted a couple of posters were seen in that country, not hundreds of thousands
So no Brietta, people are not carping on about the cost and existence of staples and paperclips!!!
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 07, 2015, 10:31:26 PM
Yes, donations were solicited at the same time as KM was writing or near finalised her book. Im not sure why (not that I care) as it will have been a given fact that it would be a bestseller bringing in buckets load more money than a request for donations which had more or less dried up,not to mention the extra half a million paid by the Sun and confirmed by Brookes in court, for the serialisation rights
And at the time or a month or so thereafter KM appeared on GMTV and said her role in the campaign was income generation
I read the list of the things donations could be put to use for....just a tenner for a thousand or was it 10,000posters......where are they? Back in the day 2008 they said they spent 80k on posters in Portugal Spain and Morocco ...where were they? An Al Jazeera documentary made noted a couple of posters were seen in that country, not hundreds of thousands
So no Brietta, people are not carping on about the cost and existence of staples and paperclips!!!
its a shame the man it is being used on is dishonest....according to the Portuguese courts
And who paid for the PIs to get your alleged info for you for this desperate vendetta against a SIO ? - let's hope it wasn't honest donators who were told their money would be used on searching for a child?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 07, 2015, 10:36:29 PM
Errr...excuse me, but you asked for a link, and no one had replied for a while, I did a quick google search and up it popped, the request for donations was in it....I was not involved in the ins and outs and minutae of your discussion, I was trying to be helpful...next time remind me to remind you to do your own donkey work!
And if you "saw" anything in my just providing the link and not posting the whole article, then you are seeing things!
It was very helpful of you to find the letter on Faithlilly's behalf & I extend thanks on her behalf as she has chosen not to comment on Gerry' letter in its entirety.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: mercury on November 07, 2015, 11:16:05 PM
Thats one billboard...are you trying to suggest thousands upon thousands of posters were put up across a few countries and ripped off or defiled? Dont be silly. We all know your disgust at deliberate actions of , well, whatever they were, and whoever was responsible, just dont try and spread a message of , whatever it was, was happening in imaginary places if it did not exist, and if it did do detail
You cant get away from the fact that certain expenditures have not been detailed and any normal person might question them, which is not a crime, hell, journalists did...
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: faithlilly on November 07, 2015, 11:19:45 PM
It was very helpful of you to find the letter on Faithlilly's behalf & I extend thanks on her behalf as she has chosen not to comment on Gerry' letter in its entirety.
I commented on the part relevant to my point.
Gerry could have easily socialited siginutares, and only signatures, for his petition in the letter, especially as he must have known at the time that Kate's book would be bringing in money in a few months time. He chose not to. Instead he appealed, quite forcibly, for money. It does make you wonder if at first the book revenue was even destined for the fund.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 07, 2015, 11:23:30 PM
Thats one billboard...are you trying to suggest thousands upon thousands of posters were put up across a few countries and ripped off or defiled? Dont be silly. We all know your disgust at deliberate actions of , well, whatever they were, and whoever was responsible, just dont try and spread a message of , whatever it was, was happening in imaginary places if it did not exist, and if it did do detail
You cant get away from the fact that certain expenditures have not been detailed and any normal person might question them, which is not a crime, hell, journalists did...
Wonder why is it some posters are so reluctant to discuss the absolutely opaque funds set up to benefit Mr Amaral which is after all the theme of this thread? What is it they know or being more realistic, do not know, which disallows full and frank discussion in favour of deflection?
As regards the vendetta against Madeleine's posters ... where have you been for the last few years?
There is no point spending expensively on billboards to have them defaced and torn down. There is no point in putting up posters of a missing child for exactly the same reason.
Particularly when people have been indoctrinated into the belief that there is no point because she is dead ... oh the power of the pen and a best seller.
**Snip Gerry returned there last month to film a reconstruction but he was heckled by some residents who blame the couple for a downturn in business.
At the town, he backed a poster campaign and sent out 10,000 letters to locals, appealing for information about the British girl, who disappeared on May 3, 2007.
But they were received with little sympathy by many people, including builder Jose.
He said: "Nobody liked it and I think it was a shame that they sent out those letters. Many people just ripped them up."
Many expats there are equally hostile.
When asked how she felt about Gerry coming back to film a reconstruction, one resident, Nana, said: "Horrible, absolutely horrible. He was totally ignored.
"People didn't put up any posters. They're fed up and we're very angry." http://news.sky.com/story/688705/portuguese-town-is-fed-up-with-madeleine
**Snip Local Rute Fernandes added: "It's a waste of time. "There's not a single person on the Algarve that is unaware of this case and doesn't know who Madeleine McCann was."
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell has said the appeal's aim is to collect the vital clue that could lead to Madeleine being found.
The official Find Madeleine Fund said in a statement earlier this week: "At the time of Madeleine's disappearance the emphasis was placed more on international appeals, and it has been recognised that the local Portuguese residents of Praia da Luz and the surrounding areas have never been properly asked about information they may have to give. "The purpose of the current campaign is to do that - ask the local Portuguese residents for information to help to find Madeleine." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/5055948/Vandals-target-Madeleine-McCann-posters.html
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: misty on November 08, 2015, 01:45:50 AM
"... the gofundme page dedicated to Gonçalo Amaral's defence has collected donations in excess of 50 thousand pounds. These funds have been transferred to the bank account that is held by Dr Paulo Sargento and other friends of Mr Amaral. Less than half of this amount has been spent on legal expenses for the defence of Gonçalo Amaral ... the bank account currently stands at an amount that seems largely sufficient to face eventual future expenses. ... Any unused funds will ... be donated to a Portuguese children's charity..." http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/ That is transparency........snipped
It may be "transparent" but is it true? A blogspot is not a legal document, there is no legally binding contract between a donator & the recipient .....and in May 2015 the legal fees requiring settlement were quoted as £300,000, not £25,000.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 08, 2015, 02:05:12 AM
It may be "transparent" but is it true? A blogspot is not a legal document, there is no legally binding contract between a donator & the recipient .....and in May 2015 the legal fees requiring settlement were quoted as £300,000, not £25,000.
Misty this may amaze you but some people actually trust Mr Amaral and his friends. The MFLNSU Ltd's accounts may be legally binding but try to find out any sort of facts in them like was it 4 spanish PIs and toy cats they paid donators money for or was it 40, or even a rough idea of how much they spent on pursuing this libel case for several years (I bet you can't find that even to the nearest £100K in the accounts?).
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 08, 2015, 02:17:16 AM
Misty this may amaze you but some people actually trust Mr Amaral and his friends. The MFLNSU Ltd's accounts may be legally binding but try to find out any sort of facts in them like was it 4 spanish PIs and toy cats they paid donators money for or was it 40, or even a rough idea of how much they spent on pursuing this libel case for several years (I bet you can't find that even to the nearest £100K in the accounts?).
That will no doubt be of some comfort to the brother he defrauded and others to whom he is indebted ... not least the Portuguese equivalent of the IRS.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Mr Gray on November 08, 2015, 08:17:58 AM
Wonder why is it some posters are so reluctant to discuss the absolutely opaque funds set up to benefit Mr Amaral which is after all the theme of this thread? What is it they know or being more realistic, do not know, which disallows full and frank discussion in favour of deflection?
No one is reluctant to discuss the appeal funds raised, but theres not alot to discuss
As for the rest of your post, too long to copy and bore people, where have YOU been? the issues you discuss happened in 2009/10, the 80k used was in 2007 so your arguments contained in that part of your post are a bit null
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 09, 2015, 01:08:09 AM
Basically there is no evidence at all that a single cent of PJGA money has been used for anything other than its one stated object.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 09, 2015, 01:45:40 AM
Basically there is no evidence at all that a single cent of PJGA money has been used for anything other than its one stated object.
There is no evidence of anything regarding any of the money donated to Mr Amaral over the years ... I believe the transparent fund has only published on one occasion many years ago.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: pegasus on November 09, 2015, 02:40:08 AM
There is no evidence of anything regarding any of the money donated to Mr Amaral over the years ... I believe the transparent fund has only published on one occasion many years ago.
No money has been donated to Mr Amaral. Money has been donated to a fund run by some friends of his, strictly to pay his legal costs defending the libel case. The objects of the UK based fund are equally clearly defined - to find the child, and to bring the perp(s) to justice. It's very clear, both funds say exactly what they are for.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: G-Unit on November 09, 2015, 07:28:20 AM
It may be "transparent" but is it true? A blogspot is not a legal document, there is no legally binding contract between a donator & the recipient .....and in May 2015 the legal fees requiring settlement were quoted as £300,000, not £25,000.
Do you have a cite for that?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Brietta on November 09, 2015, 10:09:50 AM
No money has been donated to Mr Amaral. Money has been donated to a fund run by some friends of his, strictly to pay his legal costs defending the libel case. The objects of the UK based fund are equally clearly defined - to find the child, and to bring the perp(s) to justice. It's very clear, both funds say exactly what they are for.
Then I fail to see the problem people have in their demands for the transparency of every transaction of one but total disinterest in any transaction for the other.
If the properly audited and publicly accountable fund is continually held up as being 'fraudulent' what does that say about one which is conducted totally in camera?
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: jassi on November 09, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
Then I fail to see the problem people have in their demands for the transparency of every transaction of one but total disinterest in any transaction for the other.
If the properly audited and publicly accountable fund is continually held up as being 'fraudulent' what does that say about one which is conducted totally in camera?
Nothing at all.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: Benice on November 09, 2015, 10:29:00 AM
Then I fail to see the problem people have in their demands for the transparency of every transaction of one but total disinterest in any transaction for the other.
If the properly audited and publicly accountable fund is continually held up as being 'fraudulent' what does that say about one which is conducted totally in camera?
An example of hypocrisy on a grand scale IMO.
Title: Re: Gonçalo Amaral Legal Defence fund to be closed on 28 October 2015
Post by: John on February 15, 2017, 04:27:19 PM
Quote
I have my own friends in the Met who tell me the investigating team were convinced about what happened. Unfortunately I could not include that in my blog as my brother is in the Met and it would be presumed he told me (which he didn’t).
But members of the Met investigating team put their own money into Amaral’s appeal against his libel verdict. I think that tells you all you need to know.