UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: rotti on December 11, 2015, 10:55:47 PM
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theory on bambers murder plan.and what could have happened.the night before the murders bamber took the rifle loaded it and hid it in the scullery.after that he hid the bedroom phone and left at 10pm .as he entered the farm from the widow he immediately took the rifle and hid the kitchen phone.than crept to his parents bedroom.but the dog sensed a presence and started barking neville and june were awake when bamber burst in firing.june was a sitting target but neville was up probably stood by his side of the bed when receiving his shots.there is no doubt June would have been screaming and while bomber tryed to Finnish her to stop the screaming Neville barged past him heading for kitchen the only reason he made it past bomber was because of brave Junes screams.he identified Junes screaming as more of a threat than his wounded father who with the non fatal shots could not make a sound because of the lip and jaw shots he received.when Neville reached the kitchen there was no phone it had already been hidden plus bamber was on him to quick.bamber fought with brave father and mercilessly beat him unconscious.he may have been wearing a wet suit . he took more bullets out of the shotgun cartridge carrier he was wearing .which the raid team member saw hanging up in the stairway leading from kitchen.and shot neville 4 times every one of these last 4 head shots would have immediately fatal .he than went upstairs with a full magazine to deal with the most important person in his plan.you see for his whole plan to work his sister could not be beaten or shot any other place on her body except the suicide shot head or neck.there for sheila was fast asleep under medication in her bedroom.he could not have her awake and disobeying or screaming or trying to escape because he would not have been able to make the suicide shot to stop. her as with junes case several shots.he shot Sheila while she slept once in the bed than immediately picked her up in both arms tucked her head down and to the right holding her tight so no blood could drip down it would only drip on her and not the floor.he then carried her to the main bedroom and placed her over or near the droplet's of blood from neville were.while placing her down he could sense she was still alive .he had no choice but to shoot her again.he did not want anyone to know neville was shot upstairs.after that he shot the twins as he probably predicted they were fast asleep.he than began to stage the scene he put the rifle in place moved a bible in place .placed a box ammo on the side and replaced the phone .he did not phone home from whitehouse farm.because having paid his own telephone bill in the past he would have known the police would not be able to prove if the call was made or not.he then wiped himself down with a teeshirt or something similar and than left the house via the self catching latch window.what he bought to the house that morning or what he took away no one knows.
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theory on bambers murder plan.and what could have happened.the night before the murders bamber took the rifle loaded it and hid it in the scullery.after that he hid the bedroom phone and left at 10pm .as he entered the farm from the widow he immediately took the rifle and hid the kitchen phone.than crept to his parents bedroom.but the dog sensed a presence and started barking neville and june were awake when bamber burst in firing.june was a sitting target but neville was up probably stood by his side of the bed when receiving his shots.there is no doubt June would have been screaming and while bomber tryed to Finnish her to stop the screaming Neville barged past him heading for kitchen the only reason he made it past bomber was because of brave Junes screams.he identified Junes screaming as more of a threat than his wounded father who with the non fatal shots could not make a sound because of the lip and jaw shots he received.when Neville reached the kitchen there was no phone it had already been hidden plus bamber was on him to quick.bamber fought with brave father and mercilessly beat him unconscious.he may have been wearing a wet suit . he took more bullets out of the shotgun cartridge carrier he was wearing .which the raid team member saw hanging up in the stairway leading from kitchen.and shot neville 4 times every one of these last 4 head shots would have immediately fatal .he than went upstairs with a full magazine to deal with the most important person in his plan.you see for his whole plan to work his sister could not be beaten or shot any other place on her body except the suicide shot head or neck.there for sheila was fast asleep under medication in her bedroom.he could not have her awake and disobeying or screaming or trying to escape because he would not have been able to make the suicide shot to stop. her as with junes case several shots.he shot Sheila while she slept once in the bed than immediately picked her up in both arms tucked her head down and to the right holding her tight so no blood could drip down it would only drip on her and not the floor.he then carried her to the main bedroom and placed her over or near the droplet's of blood from neville were.while placing her down he could sense she was still alive .he had no choice but to shoot her again.he did not want anyone to know neville was shot upstairs.after that he shot the twins as he probably predicted they were fast asleep.he than began to stage the scene he put the rifle in place moved a bible in place .placed a box ammo on the side and replaced the phone .he did not phone home from whitehouse farm.because having paid his own telephone bill in the past he would have known the police would not be able to prove if the call was made or not.he then wiped himself down with a teeshirt or something similar and than left the house via the self catching latch window.what he bought to the house that morning or what he took away no one knows.
1) The phone was removed from the bedroom by the Monday afternoon because it was seen in the kitchen by Pike at that time. It was removed in anticipation of the murders either Sunday or Monday. Jeremy was not sure when he would do the killing during the visit.
2) Why would June have to have screamed? The first shot she suffered was likely the one to her head and for that point forward she would be out of sorts. She may never have fully awakened prior to being shot in the head.
3) The evidence proves Sheila was shot while she was seated. The first shot did not kill her so a second shot was fired. She was subsequently dragged flat so that the gun could be placed on her body.
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hi why remove the bedroom phone when you dont know when you will commit the crime.what would stop neville replacing the bedroom phone for the office one or the kitchen one.he would have done .so he could have access to one at night .i think if the phone had disappeared before the evening of the murders it would have been replaced with another.what bamber was up to that evening at the farm no one can say.its just a theory . why would june not scream.any woman would if confronted by a rifle shooting maniac shooting her .its natural human behaviour for a woman.i think bamber would have had some kind of mask on .even more frightening for june .i dont think june was shot in the head first.because she could not have raised her arm or tucked her legs up in a defencive manner .i dont believe a half asleep person could take a head shot and than fully wake up and crawl about.as for the blood staining on shelea .i suggest if you carry a person in the manner i have stated you will get the same blood staining you see on shelea night dress.if she had been sat up at the time she was shot than moved .you would surely see blood on the front and left side of her night dress.you dont.its a theory and i would like a blood splatter expert to look at those photos and give his opinion
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Interesting that you believe Sheila was carried. Certainly possible as she almost certainly did not wake until it was her turn.
It's possible he shot her in bed while she was asleep. If no blood would splatter onto the bed and no evidence that she had been carried would be left, then why not ?
Being asleep and then shot would mean she would be totally immobilised. Bamber could easily carry someone of Sheila's size a few feet.
She may have been carried some of the way. He may have attempted to persuade her to move from the bedroom or at least get out of bed and move a few feet. Then carried her a few feet across the main bedroom floor, where he had left the gun, before Sheila had fully woken and seen June.
Either way explains the lack of June's blood on her hands and feet.
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If he was wearing a wetsuit, it would have been underneath normal clothes. Wetsuits are quite thick material and would have protected his skin.
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I doubt that he hid the kitchen phone. He believed no one would get downstairs. He may have taken it off the hook to disable all phones in WHF.
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If he was wearing a wetsuit, it would have been underneath normal clothes. Wetsuits are quite thick material and would have protected his skin.
I wouldn't say a wetsuit afforded any more protection than all those jumpers he seemed fond of wearing on top of a shirt and underneath his blouson 8(>(( Anymore layering with a wetsuit and I reckon he would struggle to get through the window and ride the bike!
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theory on bambers murder plan.and what could have happened.the night before the murders bamber took the rifle loaded it and hid it in the scullery.after that he hid the bedroom phone and left at 10pm .as he entered the farm from the widow he immediately took the rifle and hid the kitchen phone.than crept to his parents bedroom.but the dog sensed a presence and started barking neville and june were awake when bamber burst in firing.june was a sitting target but neville was up probably stood by his side of the bed when receiving his shots.there is no doubt June would have been screaming and while bomber tryed to Finnish her to stop the screaming Neville barged past him heading for kitchen the only reason he made it past bomber was because of brave Junes screams.he identified Junes screaming as more of a threat than his wounded father who with the non fatal shots could not make a sound because of the lip and jaw shots he received.when Neville reached the kitchen there was no phone it had already been hidden plus bamber was on him to quick.bamber fought with brave father and mercilessly beat him unconscious.he may have been wearing a wet suit . he took more bullets out of the shotgun cartridge carrier he was wearing .which the raid team member saw hanging up in the stairway leading from kitchen.and shot neville 4 times every one of these last 4 head shots would have immediately fatal .he than went upstairs with a full magazine to deal with the most important person in his plan.you see for his whole plan to work his sister could not be beaten or shot any other place on her body except the suicide shot head or neck.there for sheila was fast asleep under medication in her bedroom.he could not have her awake and disobeying or screaming or trying to escape because he would not have been able to make the suicide shot to stop. her as with junes case several shots.he shot Sheila while she slept once in the bed than immediately picked her up in both arms tucked her head down and to the right holding her tight so no blood could drip down it would only drip on her and not the floor.he then carried her to the main bedroom and placed her over or near the droplet's of blood from neville were.while placing her down he could sense she was still alive .he had no choice but to shoot her again.he did not want anyone to know neville was shot upstairs.after that he shot the twins as he probably predicted they were fast asleep.he than began to stage the scene he put the rifle in place moved a bible in place .placed a box ammo on the side and replaced the phone .he did not phone home from whitehouse farm.because having paid his own telephone bill in the past he would have known the police would not be able to prove if the call was made or not.he then wiped himself down with a teeshirt or something similar and than left the house via the self catching latch window.what he bought to the house that morning or what he took away no one knows.
But why move Sheila? Why not stage the suicide in her own bed? You forgot to move the cartridge case from SC's room to the main bedroom.
Why would he go to the trouble of wearing a wetsuit to protect himself from debris but then wear the ammo carrier which I believe is made of cloth and could potentially pick up debris/incriminating evidence?
How would he know from paying his own phone bill in the past that the police would be unable to prove whether or not a phone call was made? Had he paid his own phone bills in the past? Think he had just rented rooms in the past and the farm paid his phone bill at the cottage.
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hi why remove the bedroom phone when you dont know when you will commit the crime.what would stop neville replacing the bedroom phone for the office one or the kitchen one.he would have done .so he could have access to one at night .i think if the phone had disappeared before the evening of the murders it would have been replaced with another.what bamber was up to that evening at the farm no one can say.
He wasn't sure when he would kill them during the visit he could have done it Sunday night, Monday night, any night they were there...we don't know whether he waited till the 6th to build up his nerve, because that day he was pissed off enough to follow through or what.
He didn't just replace the kitchen phone with the bedroom phone he hid the kitchen phone. Thus putting the bedroom phone back would result in having no phone in the kitchen. They used the kitchen phone way more so would not do that.
If he successfully killed Nevill in the bedroom he would have put the bedroom phone back and tried to make it look like Nevill made the call from there then was attacked. But since he died in the kitchen he didn't put it back ad tried to make it look like he made a call from the kitchen then was attacked. DCI Jones fell hook, line and sinker. But later it was discovered he was shot in the bedroom first and that things proceeded to the kitchen after this. This was a game changer since Nevill could not speak after the attack in the bedroom so could not have told Jeremy anything over the phone.
its just a theory . why would june not scream.any woman would if confronted by a rifle shooting maniac shooting her .its natural human behaviour for a woman.i think bamber would have had some kind of mask on .even more frightening for june .i dont think june was shot in the head first.because she could not have raised her arm or tucked her legs up in a defencive manner .i dont believe a half asleep person could take a head shot and than fully wake up and crawl about.as for the blood staining on shelea .
Half asleep people are not cognizant of everything going on around them fully. Clearly the shot to the head didn't prevent June from getting out of bed and walking around it before walking back to the door and collapsing. Surely she was able to move her arms and legs in the bed after such since she was able to get up and walk around. So your position makes no sense. Women scream when she hope to summon help. Sometimes they are too scared to scream. Nevill was already there int he thick of it she had no need to scream to summon help and was likely not fully in her right mind anyway after the shot to the head.
Someone in Nevill's position would say something like come here you son of a bitch I'm going to ring your neck but he couldn't speak after his jaw wound which severed his vocal chord.
i suggest if you carry a person in the manner i have stated you will get the same blood staining you see on shelea night dress.if she had been sat up at the time she was shot than moved .you would surely see blood on the front and left side of her night dress.you dont.its a theory and i would like a blood splatter expert to look at those photos and give his opinion
Blood experts all say the same thing- that the staining to her dress indicates she was seated when shot and thus the blood leaked down her shoulder, arm and breast area. Your assessments are based on ignoring the expert testimony. You seem to be unaware of the various assessments including by MacDonnell. She was seated the blood leaked down her then she was subsequently moved flat. This is one of the reasons why we know she wasn't lying flat when shot like Jeremy hoped to convey after he moved her body flat and stuck the gun across her body.
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hi i think the wet suit was protection against blood evidence.after wiping himself down and leaving the scene he could get home have a hot shower and all blood evidence would go down plughole.no scratches would be on his body.ds jones asked bamber about the lack of towels in his bath room the morning of the murders.but he could just as well bought a change of clothing with him and simply changed before leaving farmhouse.you say 2 jumpers a blouson.i suggest you have no proof whatsoever what he was wearing the night or morning of the murders.you only know what he turned up in at the farm at 3am.unless some one from the grave told you it was 2 jumpers and a blouson.for you to add a stupid cartoon caption when you dont know yourself is laughable.hi adam i only think she was shot in bed because of the blood pattern on her nightdress .i am no expert but the blood on the nighty doesnt look right for a suicide.if she pushed the trigger while sat on the floor her head would immediately fall backwards the blood would run down the side of the neck and pool on the carpet near her neck .and had she sot herself with her back proped against Neville's bedside cabinet she would have blood on the front and left side of her night .but theres none not even a speck.i am sure we have all carried a sleeping child say a 8 yearold you put 1 arm beneath the knee joints and the other just below the neck and we make sure the head is forward and tucked into our body .not hanging back .now apply that to the photo of Sheila.if she had been shot in bed and than bamber carried her from the left hand bed in her room .than the blood pattern is spot on .i favour him hiding the kitchen phone because he thought if something goes wrong and 3 adults start fleeing in different directions their would not find a phone to tell anyone its bamber doing the killing i dont think he would have took that chance.mine are all theories .think like bamber would have
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Well if there would be no evidence left that he shot Sheila in her bed, then that is the best option. He could simply move the bullet casing next to Sheila in the main bedroom.
One bullet in the neck while she slept and then lift her. She would be immobilised while she slept. So couldn't do anything even if she woke while being carried for the ten seconds it would take Bamber to move her.
The way you explained he would lift her has always been my view. He could easily lift her from the bed in that way.
The advantage of shooting Sheila while she slept, is it gives Bamber more time to aim a fatal shot. His first shot was right in the neck and immobilised her, but didn't kill her. Would it have killed her slowly ? Bamber couldn't take that risk and shot her again. This time in the main bedroom.
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hi . scipio usmc firstly you .john .and admin are master sleuths.and much respected by me the 3 of you dont give bamber a leg to stand on .do you think neville a god fearing man ex magistrate would say son of a bitch .i think maybe b........ would be right. neville only made it past bamber because of something june was doing if he had run out of bullets while neville was still in room he would have started his attack there and than and neville would not have made it past him.what was june doing that bamber had to stop her immediately .certainly not trying to escape she was to wounded to make any sudden movements and she certainly wasnt reaching for a weapon.she might have been shouting and screaming.bamber didnt want her screams to wake shelia.because shelia the most important victim was to be killed using a suicide shot.we will never know. i think shelia was moved to the bedroom to cover any signs of neville being shot there .bamber did not want anyone to think neville was first shot in the bedroom.people would ask why after being shot in lip jaw elbow and shoulder he didnt tackle shelia in the bedroom after she emptied the magazine.also had he not thought that he would have placed shelia near the twin to make it look more believable .he thought if she had been found in her own room the police might smell a rat .any one suggesting bamber had never seen a telephone bill in his life .needs a drugs test.a phone bill would show the number of calls but not the date and time nor the number called
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for you to add a stupid cartoon caption when you dont know yourself is laughable.
And poor Holly thought being a moderator was going to be an easy job. @)(++(*
Never mind Holls... 18 other people liked it! 8((()*/
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in the seconds it takes to fire 10 rounds maybe neville made it downstairs he certainly wasnt in the thick of it or he wouldnt have left the bedroom .any other way to pass bamber in the bedroom and enter the kitchen is impossible junes screams had to be silenced .giving neville time to exit even if junes was shot in the head while in bed .it wasnt her voice box so she could and would have screamed. i would love to know how long she would have to be seated upright to accumulate that amount of blood that can be seen on shelia left side .also nobody sleeps flat on a bed people have pillows and some have 2 or 3 .if shelia was sleeping with her head raised when shot .blood would match the bloodpattern trail on her nightie .you can wear a cartridge Carrier round your waist and facing the back of your body so it would be similar to taking cartridges out of a back pocket .no debris or blood would get on it in that position.if it did get bloody he would have took it with him and not hang it in the kitchen stairway.if there was blood on shelias bedsheets he would simply change them and take blooded one with him.what he took away with him that morning no one knows .he staged the scene at the caravan office its reasonable to assume he done the same at farmhouse .but what we dont know.i think he had a wetsuit. jacket. trainers. scarf. with a mask in his pocket and rode to whitehouse farm.
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also any tough questions i get .i will refer them to the 3 masters scipio usmc.john.admin.iam a amateur and looking at the case with a criminal mind.as bamber would have done
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hi i think the wet suit was protection against blood evidence.after wiping himself down and leaving the scene he could get home have a hot shower and all blood evidence would go down plughole.no scratches would be on his body.ds jones asked bamber about the lack of towels in his bath room the morning of the murders.but he could just as well bought a change of clothing with him and simply changed before leaving farmhouse.you say 2 jumpers a blouson.i suggest you have no proof whatsoever what he was wearing the night or morning of the murders.you only know what he turned up in at the farm at 3am.unless some one from the grave told you it was 2 jumpers and a blouson.for you to add a stupid cartoon caption when you dont know yourself is laughable.hi adam i only think she was shot in bed because of the blood pattern on her nightdress .i am no expert but the blood on the nighty doesnt look right for a suicide.if she pushed the trigger while sat on the floor her head would immediately fall backwards the blood would run down the side of the neck and pool on the carpet near her neck .and had she sot herself with her back proped against Neville's bedside cabinet she would have blood on the front and left side of her night .but theres none not even a speck.i am sure we have all carried a sleeping child say a 8 yearold you put 1 arm beneath the knee joints and the other just below the neck and we make sure the head is forward and tucked into our body .not hanging back .now apply that to the photo of Sheila.if she had been shot in bed and than bamber carried her from the left hand bed in her room .than the blood pattern is spot on .i favour him hiding the kitchen phone because he thought if something goes wrong and 3 adults start fleeing in different directions their would not find a phone to tell anyone its bamber doing the killing i dont think he would have took that chance.mine are all theories .think like bamber would have
Hi sherlock. I apologise if my soh offended you. The comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously. JB layering up has been the butt of many jokes. It wasn't restricted to when he arrived at the farm on 7th Aug eg when he arrived at court, and this was during the day and in the summer, he also wore multiple layers.
Of course I don't know what JB was wearing IF he carried out the murders.
I'm not sure how a wetsuit would have afforded JB much protection though since they are porous and not that thick. They need washing with special shampoos:
http://www.boardridersguide.com/ripcurl-piss-off-wetsuit-cleaner-37129?gclid=ckgrtv-s18kcfalnwgodws4gqg
I believe JB's old bedroom at WHF was in tact and he kept some clothes there.
I also believe EP forensically analysed the wet suit and bike and didn't find anything incriminating.
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Hi sherlock. I apologise if my soh offended you. The comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously. JB layering up has been the butt of many jokes. It wasn't restricted to when he arrived at the farm on 7th Aug eg when he arrived at court, and this was during the day and in the summer, he also wore multiple layers.
Of course I don't know what JB was wearing IF he carried out the murders.
I'm not sure how a wetsuit would have afforded JB much protection though since they are porous and not that thick. They need washing with special shampoos:
http://www.boardridersguide.com/ripcurl-piss-off-wetsuit-cleaner-37129?gclid=ckgrtv-s18kcfalnwgodws4gqg
I believe JB's old bedroom at WHF was in tact and he kept some clothes there.
I also believe EP forensically analysed the wet suit and bike and didn't find anything incriminating.
his plan was to catch every one sound asleep in their beds than he would have set the scene in such a way nobody would ever prove it wasnt shelia who done it .i mean a masterly staged scene like you get in high class operas.and we wouldnt be on this forum .bamber would be in the south of france.why he never used a shotgun i dont know i think the noise.neville would not have got away from bedroom 1 shot each and his plan has succeeded.carry shelia to twins bedroom and the jobs finished.his call to police was a well thought out plan .it keeps him away from the crime scene and also allows him prime. fool .and scare police .like the conductor at a symphony.the lifestyle he wanted was what he had done after the murders jet setting to st tropez Amsterdam a playboy lifestyle not a hardworking farmers lifestyle.he wanted his arse to be sat in sports car not a combine harvester.i think he has got the seat he deserved a nice soft one in the nick.i think child killers who are found guilty should be strapped to a gurney and electric shocked until they reveal the truth.my personal opinion
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hi holly very sorry i didnt a first take it as a joke.also i didnt know you are a moderator.my respects to you.he had worked in some sort of diving business abroad so i think he might have had cleaning shampoos for his suits
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his plan was to catch every one sound asleep in their beds than he would have set the scene in such a way nobody would ever prove it wasnt shelia who done it .i mean a masterly staged scene like you get in high class operas.and we wouldnt be on this forum .bamber would be in the south of france.why he never used a shotgun i dont know i think the noise.neville would not have got away from bedroom 1 shot each and his plan has succeeded.carry shelia to twins bedroom and the jobs finished.his call to police was a well thought out plan .it keeps him away from the crime scene and also allows him prime. fool .and scare police .like the conductor at a symphony.the lifestyle he wanted was what he had done after the murders jet setting to st tropez Amsterdam a playboy lifestyle not a hardworking farmers lifestyle.he wanted his arse to be sat in sports car not a combine harvester.i think he has got the seat he deserved a nice soft one in the nick.i think child killers who are found guilty should be strapped to a gurney and electric shocked until they reveal the truth.my personal opinion
There are many reasons why Bamber didn't use a shotgun. The noise, the mess, the fact that you have to break and reload, a shotgun only gives you 2 shots, Sheila had never touched a shotgun in her life, Bamber didn't leave a shotgun out, he left a rifle.....
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Bamber had it in mind though, when he asked the Eatons about buying a five shot shotgun... one for each member of the family. &%+((£
I understand this was checked out by EP and apparently JB wanted an auto shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord of his local, The Chequers. The Eatons explained it was not sportsmanlike to use this type of gun and JB accepted this and didnt pursue it further.
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his plan was to catch every one sound asleep in their beds than he would have set the scene in such a way nobody would ever prove it wasnt shelia who done it .i mean a masterly staged scene like you get in high class operas.and we wouldnt be on this forum .bamber would be in the south of france.why he never used a shotgun i dont know i think the noise.neville would not have got away from bedroom 1 shot each and his plan has succeeded.carry shelia to twins bedroom and the jobs finished.his call to police was a well thought out plan .it keeps him away from the crime scene and also allows him prime. fool .and scare police .like the conductor at a symphony.the lifestyle he wanted was what he had done after the murders jet setting to st tropez Amsterdam a playboy lifestyle not a hardworking farmers lifestyle.he wanted his arse to be sat in sports car not a combine harvester.i think he has got the seat he deserved a nice soft one in the nick.i think child killers who are found guilty should be strapped to a gurney and electric shocked until they reveal the truth.my personal opinion
Yeah the police would have bought it that Nevill phoned him if he was killed in his sleep...
Sherlock fits you like nicknaming John Candy "tiny".
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The fact he planned to say Nevill called was one of his downfalls. 1) It resulted in him shooting his mother first which in turn resulted in him running out of bullets and the kitchen struggle happening. During this struggle the killer beat Nevill unconscious and was splashed with medium velocity spatter from Neviil. Sheila had no spatter form Nevill on her body and clothing thus proving she wasn't the one who beat him. 2) By claiming to have received a call he ended up giving away that he knew about the murders. When it was established that Sheila didn't do it this means it had to have been Jeremy.
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lookout really is a ghastly old harridan, crowing over the fact that she's received a Christmas card from a man who killed two sleeping children.
I can only presume that she's got dementia. 8(8-))
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Bamber had it in mind though, when he asked the Eatons about buying a five shot shotgun... one for each member of the family. &%+((£
I didn't know that.. ta myster 8((()*/
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The fact he planned to say Nevill called was one of his downfalls. 1) It resulted in him shooting his mother first which in turn resulted in him running out of bullets and the kitchen struggle happening. During this struggle the killer beat Nevill unconscious and was splashed with medium velocity spatter from Neviil. Sheila had no spatter form Nevill on her body and clothing thus proving she wasn't the one who beat him. 2) By claiming to have received a call he ended up giving away that he knew about the murders. When it was established that Sheila didn't do it this means it had to have been Jeremy.
Those facts alone condemn him imo. The killer had to have blood spatter on him/her, no third party was involved given secret entry into the house only known to Jeremy Bamber and Sheila had no blood spatter on her.
It all makes sense now!
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Bamber had it in mind though, when he asked the Eatons about buying a five shot shotgun... one for each member of the family. &%+((£
I didn't know that.. ta myster 8((()*/
Ann Eaton's Statement, 8-13th Sept. 1985
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2171;image)
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hi master scipio usmc.there are a few names that fit you too.but i wont post any you might be offended.only an idiot would say the police would believe the story if every one was asleep in their beds. i said if every one was asleep he would have killed the lot and staged the scene .after killing neville he would have placed him on the floor and his blood on the phone which would be off the hook.shelia would be placed on the floor with shotgun beside her in the twins bedroom.do you understand now or shall i draw you a picture.its laughable that he didnt plan the call from beginning.because he would never take the risk of the remaining family telling police what life was really like between him and his family.also as i said it was done so he could prime the police officers when they came and that part worked perfectly for him. dci jones and the rest except ds jones fell for his priming. hook line and sinker.the noise was why he never chose shotgun.to this day no one can prove without doubt that a call was made or not despite the lack of blood on the phone as the blue forum will say.one of their crazy scenarios is neville phoned bamber while shelia was shooting june he than ran upstairs and took 4 shots in bedroom before fleeing to the kitchen and collapsing and being beaten by shelia.mad shelia waving the rile about while clubbing a semiconscious neville would account for in damage in kitchen.they say its debateable if there was lots of blood on the floors of kitchen and bedroom. someone could easily walk around with out getting Any blood on their feet .did Neville's feet have blood and shards of glass on them.this scenario cant be disproved beyond reasonable doubt .that is what they claim .not me i feel he is guilty. i dont agree with the master scipio usmc that it happened just the way he has explained it .others have got good theories as to how it happened.this forum is to discuss different views until we find one that most people would accept .as for the blood expert the master has said about.and what his report was. iam sure bamber could produce one that will back his theory.for a fee .there is also an expert that says the scratches on the red mantle are not there in the crime scene photos.so master scipio usmc its debatable and not without doubt
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I have recently agreed with you're view that Bamber planned to kill everyone as quickly as possible. In there beds. He just failed to do this with Neville.
Neville or June could then be moved a few feet from the bed. The bedroom phone plugged in and taken off the hook.
The exception being Sheila, who had to be out of her bed in the thick of the action. Although it seems possible that Bamber fired his first bullet into her while she was in bed sleeping.
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Those facts alone condemn him imo. The killer had to have blood spatter on him/her, no third party was involved given secret entry into the house only known to Jeremy Bamber and Sheila had no blood spatter on her.
It all makes sense now!
If he made the bodies be found naturally the moderator evidence among other things would have revealed everyone including Sheila was murdered. Upon coming to that conclusion they would suspect Jeremy because why would someone execute the entire family including the kids? Jeremy would profit from such so would be suspected and had no alibi. But they would have nothing to directly implicate him. Claiming he received a phonecall reveals direct knowledge of the murders so instead of helping him it ended up severely hurting him. He wasn't anywhere as smart as he thought he was.
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There are many reasons why Bamber didn't use a shotgun. The noise, the mess, the fact that you have to break and reload, a shotgun only gives you 2 shots, Sheila had never touched a shotgun in her life, Bamber didn't leave a shotgun out, he left a rifle.....
no one had seen shelia touch a rifle either.the noise is the only reason.if he would have used a shotgun he could have gotaway with it providing he caught every one in bed asleep or not .it would take 1 shot each shotgun can be loaded in seconds
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If he made the bodies be found naturally the moderator evidence among other things would have revealed everyone including Sheila was murdered. Upon coming to that conclusion they would suspect Jeremy because why would someone execute the entire family including the kids? Jeremy would profit from such so would be suspected and had no alibi. But they would have nothing to directly implicate him. Claiming he received a phonecall reveals direct knowledge of the murders so instead of helping him it ended up severely hurting him. He wasn't anywhere as smart as he thought he was.
hi master scipio the moderater is problematic .found by a person who had access to shelias bloodstained nickers.and days latter.i cant understand why he didnt take it with him and on the way home dug a hole in a Field or even hide it in farm out buildings.he could than say it was lost or misplaced some where around the farm .or just ive not seen it .the remaining family members did not regularly use or see the firearms held at the farm .and if they did tell police it was missing bamber would just say while out shooting he took at off when firing at a bird because he wanted to use the sound to frighten it and not kill it. than on way home it must have dropped out his pocket.i still say the call was planned before hand and as a help to his plan not a hindrance.rather than let police or anyone else find the bodies and start making suggestions on what happened.he wanted to be in control of the police minds and for a time it worked on the person that mattered .ie.dci jones
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Bamber had it in mind though, when he asked the Eatons about buying a five shot shotgun... one for each member of the family. &%+((£
I understand this was checked out by EP and apparently JB wanted an auto shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord of his local, The Chequers. The Eatons explained it was not sportsmanlike to use this type of gun and JB accepted this and didnt pursue it further.
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I understand this was checked out by EP and apparently JB wanted an auto shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord of his local, The Chequers. The Eatons explained it was not sportsmanlike to use this type of gun and JB accepted this and didnt pursue it further.
Then why didn't the pub landlord also point out the same to him before he asked the Eatons. Smells pigeony to me.
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hi master scipio usmc.there are a few names that fit you too.but i wont post any you might be offended.only an idiot would say the police would believe the story if every one was asleep in their beds. i said if every one was asleep he would have killed the lot and staged the scene .after killing neville he would have placed him on the floor and his blood on the phone which would be off the hook.shelia would be placed on the floor with shotgun beside her in the twins bedroom.do you understand now or shall i draw you a picture.its laughable that he didnt plan the call from beginning.because he would never take the risk of the remaining family telling police what life was really like between him and his family.also as i said it was done so he could prime the police officers when they came and that part worked perfectly for him. dci jones and the rest except ds jones fell for his priming. hook line and sinker.the noise was why he never chose shotgun.to this day no one can prove without doubt that a call was made or not despite the lack of blood on the phone as the blue forum will say.one of their crazy scenarios is neville phoned bamber while shelia was shooting june he than ran upstairs and took 4 shots in bedroom before fleeing to the kitchen and collapsing and being beaten by shelia.mad shelia waving the rile about while clubbing a semiconscious neville would account for in damage in kitchen.they say its debateable if there was lots of blood on the floors of kitchen and bedroom. someone could easily walk around with out getting Any blood on their feet .did Neville's feet have blood and shards of g;ass on them.this scenario cant be disproved beyond reasonable doubt .that is what they claim .not me i feel he is guilty. i dont agree with the master scipio usmc that it happened just the way he has explained it .others have got good theories as to how it happened.this forum is to discuss different views until we find one that most people would accept .as for the blood expert the master has said about.and what his report was. iam sure bamber could produce one that will back his theory.for a fee .there is also an expert that says the scratches on the red mantle are not there in the crime scene photos.so master scipio usmc its debatable and not without doubt
Yes the forum is to discuss different views but I'm not sure if it will be possible to arrive at one view that most will accept &%+((£ It would be great if that was possible and we could all find a new hobby. Even those within the same camps, ie innocent or guilty, vary widely with their beliefs with regard to the background and how the events unfolded on that fateful morning.
Personally I think the only way most will change their beliefs will be as a result of experts proving them wrong. When I say experts I mean those qualified and with relevant experience to the extent that they are eligible for expert witness status in the courts.
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lookout really is a ghastly old harridan, crowing over the fact that she's received a Christmas card from a man who killed two sleeping children.
I can only presume that she's got dementia. 8(8-))
I've never received a Christmas card from JB 8)><(
I suspect others tell him I can be naughty on occasions!
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6392.msg248375#msg248375
Or maybe it's because I tell him straight I don't agree with much on the OS and his/CT's theories, including the 'bake-off' and his blogs regarding his family.
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All that money you've got salted away and can't afford to send him a stamp for your own Christmas card!?
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I understand this was checked out by EP and apparently JB wanted an auto shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord of his local, The Chequers. The Eatons explained it was not sportsmanlike to use this type of gun and JB accepted this and didnt pursue it further.
i would like to meet a farmer who thinks shooting vermin is unsportsmanlike.also farmers have to be killers of vermin not humans .because of vermin attracted to the farm whether they use rifle or shotgun their dont care.as any farmer will tell you its part of their work and firearms are part of their life
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All that money you've got salted away and can't afford to send him a stamp for your own Christmas card!?
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. He once thanked for me sending him some stamps but I've never sent him any. Was he genuinely muddled or was it a hint he wanted some stamps? I've only ever sent a sae. I did once ask if I could get him anything such as stamps, stationery or books but as he didnt request anything I didn't bother. I get the feeling he spends copious hours writing to numerous people from the likes of me to his lawyers and book authors such as CAL and gets lost in it all. I honestly don't think his overall knowledge of the case is as good as most who post on this forum.
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That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. He once thanked for me sending him some stamps but I've never sent him any. Was he genuinely muddled or was it a hint he wanted some stamps? I've only ever sent a sae. I did once ask if I could get him anything such as stamps, stationery or books but as he didnt request anything I didn't bother. I get the feeling he spends copious hours writing to numerous people from the likes of me to his lawyers and book authors such as CAL and gets lost in it all. I honestly don't think his overall knowledge of the case is as good as most who post on this forum.
All the fanny mail from sex-starved hybristophiliacs have got him confused. He'll also receive a plentiful supply of printouts off the internet, including stuff from this and other forums, so not as ill-informed and unknowing as you think.
Maybe even an advent calendar from Hippolyta... https://twitter.com/Loudbasket/status/674311592650121218 (https://twitter.com/Loudbasket/status/674311592650121218)
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That night might have had quicker if more gruesome outcome had he got his hands on a pump-action shotgun... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQyE5u6kLtU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQyE5u6kLtU)
... and just for you Holls, some destructive totty... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6CBKUM9gk8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6CBKUM9gk8)
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Yes the forum is to discuss different views but I'm not sure if it will be possible to arrive at one view that most will accept &%+((£ It would be great if that was possible and we could all find a new hobby. Even those within the same camps, ie innocent or guilty, vary widely with their beliefs with regard to the background and how the events unfolded on that fateful morning.
Personally I think the only way most will change their beliefs will be as a result of experts proving them wrong. When I say experts I mean those qualified and with relevant experience to the extent that they are eligible for expert witness status in the courts.
holly one can never get everyone to agree on anything .but we could all add to the theories and maybe come to a position where 75% of us agree.that is what i meant. i see puglove said you received a xmas card from childkiller bamber
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All the fanny mail from sex-starved hybristophiliacs have got him confused. He'll also receive a plentiful supply of printouts off the internet, including stuff from this and other forums, so not as ill-informed and unknowing as you think.
Maybe even an advent calendar from Hippolyta... https://twitter.com/Loudbasket/status/674311592650121218 (https://twitter.com/Loudbasket/status/674311592650121218)
awsome youtube clip myster .i can see how if he had bought the auto shotgun how much easier his mornings work would have been .left out loaded with 5 shotgun cartridges .no reloading necessary .police would be more inclined to believe him
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That night might have had quicker if more gruesome outcome had he got his hands on a pump-action shotgun... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQyE5u6kLtU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQyE5u6kLtU)
... and just for you Holls, some destructive totty... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6CBKUM9gk8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6CBKUM9gk8)
8((()*/
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Yeah the police would have bought it that Nevill phoned him if he was killed in his sleep...
Sherlock fits you like nicknaming John Candy "tiny".
master scipio usmc are you a control freak .the way you think is you've got it all figured out .and every one Else is thoughts are nonsense.you sound like a twin for john McEnroe tennis player. he was also a perfectionist like yourself.if you were that good the FBI would want your services.do they
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8((()*/
Bamber had it in mind though, when he asked the Eatons about buying a five shot shotgun... one for each member of the family. &%+((£
I understand this was checked out by EP and apparently JB wanted an auto shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord of his local, The Chequers. The Eatons explained it was not sportsmanlike to use this type of gun and JB accepted this and didnt pursue it further.
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hi holly very sorry i didnt a first take it as a joke.also i didnt know you are a moderator.my respects to you.he had worked in some sort of diving business abroad so i think he might have had cleaning shampoos for his suits
No probs sherlock.
Yes he could of cleaned any wetsuit he may have used but then it would be wet and could potentially have been suspicious if it was discovered. If he was responsible he couldn't be sure EP wouldn't suspect him from the off.
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No probs sherlock.
Yes he could of cleaned any wetsuit he may have used but then it would be wet and could potentially have been suspicious if it was discovered. If he was responsible he couldn't be sure EP wouldn't suspect him from the off.
holly i think it might have dried in couple of days also he knew he wouldn't be suspected right away because he was directing police as to what they might expect when they broke in.i think it took a few days before the remaining family smelt a rat
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hi i think the wet suit was protection against blood evidence.after wiping himself down and leaving the scene he could get home have a hot shower and all blood evidence would go down plughole.no scratches would be on his body.ds jones asked bamber about the lack of towels in his bath room the morning of the murders.but he could just as well bought a change of clothing with him and simply changed before leaving farmhouse.you say 2 jumpers a blouson.i suggest you have no proof whatsoever what he was wearing the night or morning of the murders.you only know what he turned up in at the farm at 3am.unless some one from the grave told you it was 2 jumpers and a blouson.for you to add a stupid cartoon caption when you dont know yourself is laughable.hi adam i only think she was shot in bed because of the blood pattern on her nightdress .i am no expert but the blood on the nighty doesnt look right for a suicide.if she pushed the trigger while sat on the floor her head would immediately fall backwards the blood would run down the side of the neck and pool on the carpet near her neck .and had she sot herself with her back proped against Neville's bedside cabinet she would have blood on the front and left side of her night .but theres none not even a speck.i am sure we have all carried a sleeping child say a 8 yearold you put 1 arm beneath the knee joints and the other just below the shoulders and we make sure the head is forward and tucked into our body .not hanging back .now apply that to the photo of Sheila.if she had been shot in bed and than bamber carried her from the left hand bed in her room .than the blood pattern is spot on .i favour him hiding the kitchen phone because he thought if something goes wrong and 3 adults start fleeing in different directions their would not find a phone to tell anyone its bamber doing the killing i dont think he would have took that chance.mine are all theories .think like bamber would have
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i dont know what dci jones was looking for when he stared at sheilas body for 10 whole minutes than said it was suicide.he did not realise sheilas feet were free from blood so she couldn't have been running about that house.also some have said she was led into the bedroom at gunpoint .if so there would have been blood on her feet .staring down the barrel of a rifle i dont think she would be looking on the floor so she could avoid blood.i think stepping in blood would be the last thing on her mind
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8((()*/ 8@??)(
Then why didn't the pub landlord also point out the same to him before he asked the Eatons. Smells pigeony to me.
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Yeah the police would have bought it that Nevill phoned him if he was killed in his sleep...
Sherlock fits you like nicknaming John Candy "tiny".
hi master scipio i didnt say the paragraph above .i said after shooting them in their sleep he would have staged the scene.i wonder if there is a village missing an idiot.years ago there was always a village idiot
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hi master scipio i didnt say the paragraph above .i said after shooting them in their sleep he would have staged the scene.i wonder if there is a village missing an idiot.years ago there was always a village idiot
That was Bamber's aim. Shoot them all in their sleep. Then stage the scene.
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That was Bamber's aim. Shoot them all in their sleep. Then stage the scene.
yes i agree adam 8@??)(
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There are things that make me feel very uneasy about the conviction of Jeremy Bamber.
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There are things that make me feel very uneasy about the conviction of Jeremy Bamber.
hi Eleanor .what things in particular bother you.anthing specific
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the blood evidence on the nightie.does not prove absolutely that she had been shot first while she was sat up .as some have said .she could just as easily been shot while she slept bought into the master bedroom and sat up against the bedroom cabinet.for a while before bamber realised she may not die.than moved her flat and shot her again
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hi Eleanor .what things in particular bother you.anthing specific
Apart from a complete balls up initially, No, not really, except that I have seen a photograph of the feet of Sheila that were showing signs of glass cuts. {Glass on the kitchen floor when she could have shot her Father?} She also did have obvious mental health issues.
I think I saw this photograph on this Forum, but I wouldn't know how to retrieve it.
I have mostly stayed out of this because I don't have the knowledge that most of you have, but I am uneasy.
Dare I ask you to use some punctuation and sentences? Some of what you say is lost to me because it is difficult to read. Please God that you won't see this as a gross criticism.
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Apart from a complete balls up initially, No, not really, except that I have seen a photograph of the feet of Sheila that were showing signs of glass cuts. {Glass on the kitchen floor when she could have shot her Father?} She also did have obvious mental health issues.
I think I saw this photograph on this Forum, but I wouldn't know how to retrieve it.
I have mostly stayed out of this because I don't have the knowledge that most of you have, but I am uneasy.
Dare I ask you to use some punctuation and sentences? Some of what you say is lost to me because it is difficult to read. Please God that you won't see this as a gross criticism.
no not at all Eleanor 8)><(.i will try' but iam not that good on the computer .the police were fooled by bamber .but i suspect if dci Jones remained alive he would have to pay for his incompetence.as member 'John' put it the photo showing blood on sheilas feet were photoshopped .faked. had they been real the carpet underneath the feet would be beige and not green .and the one showing glass could also be fake .no mention of it was made at original trial .
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adam/sherlock
Just to clarify then you dont beleive JB planned his 'alibi' the phone call? It was an afterthought?
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Apart from a complete balls up initially, No, not really, except that I have seen a photograph of the feet of Sheila that were showing signs of glass cuts. {Glass on the kitchen floor when she could have shot her Father?} She also did have obvious mental health issues.
I think I saw this photograph on this Forum, but I wouldn't know how to retrieve it.
Bamber's legal team were clutching at straws with the bloodied foot submission, Eleanor. The marks can be interpreted in different ways and are not necessarily cuts - dirt from the kitchen floor is possible, but that could have been transferred at any time before she came to bed; marks from the insoles of any slippers she wore; transfer from the blood spots dropped by June onto the floor of the master bedroom as Sheila (was) walked through from her own bedroom.
Her mental condition was sufficiently under control with monthly Haloperidol injections.
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When did I say that ?
I have always believed he planned to create the siege situation. It was his best option.
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the blood evidence on the nightie.does not prove absolutely that she had been shot first while she was sat up .as some have said .she could just as easily been shot while she slept bought into the master bedroom and sat up against the bedroom cabinet.for a while before bamber realised she may not die.than moved her flat and shot her again
What would be the point of JB moving SC? Although overall I'm inclined to see JB as the victim of a MoJ I can't really explain SC taking her own life in her parent's room and the room where June was found, who by all accounts SC had a very difficult relationship with. If SC was found in her own room this would surely seem more authentic?
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When did I say that ?
I have always believed he planned to create the siege situation. It was his best option.
You're losing me adam. You believe JB planned to shoot the victims in their beds whilst they were asleep? If you believe that I can't figure out how to build the phone call JB claims he received from NB into your scenario? Are you saying that's what JB intended but it went awry and the claimed phone call was an afterthought?
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Bamber's legal team were clutching at straws with the bloodied foot submission, Eleanor. The marks can be interpreted in different ways and are not necessarily cuts - dirt from the kitchen floor is possible, but that could have been transferred at any time before she came to bed; marks from the insoles of any slippers she wore; transfer from the blood spots dropped by June onto the floor of the master bedroom as Sheila (was) walked through from her own bedroom.
Her mental condition was sufficiently under control with monthly Haloperidol injections.
Did the bloodied foot ever form part of a submission?
(I finished the diagram yesterday. Eat your heart out John Venn ?>)()< PM winging its way for a bit of tech help).
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What would be the point of JB moving SC? Although overall I'm inclined to see JB as the victim of a MoJ I can't really explain SC taking her own life in her parent's room and the room where June was found, who by all accounts SC had a very difficult relationship with. If SC was found in her own room this would surely seem more authentic?
i think he moved sheila to disguise the fact Neville was shot by the bed first .his plan from the beginning was to stage the phonecall .so he could manipulate the police before they entered the farmhouse .he thought everyone found in different rooms and sheila with 2 gunshots would be suspicious.had sheila been found in her room we would now be asking why she didnt kill herself in the twins room or master bedroom.
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no not at all Eleanor 8)><(.i will try' but iam not that good on the computer .the police were fooled by bamber .but i suspect if dci Jones remained alive he would have to pay for his incompetence.as member 'John' put it the photo showing blood on sheilas feet were photoshopped .faked. had they been real the carpet underneath the feet would be beige and not green .and the one showing glass could also be fake .no mention of it was made at original trial .
Oh, I see, photo shopped, again. Why was it not mentioned at Trial? But thanks for the photo.
It's okay about you not being that good on a computer, just a bit difficult to read, so sometimes your points get lost for the sake of the odd full stop, comma and space..
PS. What about The Silencer? I am not happy about that either. Can you explain that to me, s'il vous plait?
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You're losing me Adam. You believe JB planned to shoot the victims in their beds whilst they were asleep? If you believe that I can't figure out how to build the phone call JB claims he received from NB into your scenario? Are you saying that's what JB intended but it went awry and the claimed phone call was an afterthought?
the phone call was always part of the plan .so he could prime police into what they might find.even if he had caught every one asleep;and killed them in their beds than staged the scene he would most certainly have still made the bogus claim of the phone call
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Bamber's legal team were clutching at straws with the bloodied foot submission, Eleanor. The marks can be interpreted in different ways and are not necessarily cuts - dirt from the kitchen floor is possible, but that could have been transferred at any time before she came to bed; marks from the insoles of any slippers she wore; transfer from the blood spots dropped by June onto the floor of the master bedroom as Sheila (was) walked through from her own bedroom.
Her mental condition was sufficiently under control with monthly Haloperidol injections.
Oh, do come on. Jeremy picked her up and walked her to or from her own bedroom when she was half dead? This simply isn't good enough.
Sufficiently under control? That is ghastly. Just how crackers was she?
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Oh, I see, photo shopped, again. Why was it not mentioned at Trial? But thanks for the photo.
It's okay about you not being that good on a computer, just a bit difficult to read, so sometimes your points get lost for the sake of the odd full stop, comma and space..
PS. What about The Silencer? I am not happy about that either. Can you explain that to me, s'il vous plait?
iam not sure probably it didnt exist.what the heck is s il vous plait
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i dont know what dci jones was looking for when he stared at sheilas body for 10 whole minutes than said it was suicide.he did not realise sheilas feet were free from blood so she couldn't have been running about that house.also some have said she was led into the bedroom at gunpoint .if so there would have been blood on her feet .staring down the barrel of a rifle i dont think she would be looking on the floor so she could avoid blood.i think stepping in blood would be the last thing on her mind
There was very little blood anywhere on the floor other than the pool that formed around NB and there would be no need for SC to tread there.
SC's feet were never swabbed. DC Hammersley placed bags over her feet at SoC. SC was then placed in a body bag and transferred to the path lab. DC Hammersley removed the bags but they were not forensically analysed. So the potential for much movement existed and for any debris to transfer and get lost in the bags.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=229
This is Dr Vanezis' take on SC's feet from CAL's interview with the Dr: (P322/323)
Her feet were clean, save for a couple of minor bloodspots on the soles, suggesting that she hadn't walked through the kitchen, where the floor into the hallway was stippled with blood, but creating a puzzle regarding the blood-streaked bedroom carpet. Pathologist Dr Vanezis explains that the area of marking and porousness of the carpet should be taken into account: 'An expert on blood spatter might tell you that small spots of blood on the carpet won't transfer so easily, particularly if it's more or less dried. If she'd been carried, would that have been willingly? No, I can't see that. The other thing is: if a gun had been held to her head, she would have been led there and told to lie down. Jeremy would then have to get round this blood, thinking he mustn't touch it. I think it was just small amounts of blood on the carpet and it was the luck of the draw whether she got any on her feet or not.'
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You're losing me adam. You believe JB planned to shoot the victims in their beds whilst they were asleep? If you believe that I can't figure out how to build the phone call JB claims he received from NB into your scenario? Are you saying that's what JB intended but it went awry and the claimed phone call was an afterthought?
He planned to move Neville or June a few feet from their bed. Or let them stumble a few feet, as June did.
Then take take the bedroom phone off the hook.
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Oh, do come on. Jeremy picked her up and walked her to or from her own bedroom when she was half dead? This simply isn't good enough.
Sufficiently under control? That is ghastly. Just how crackers was she?
why is it not good enough.like i said before.if she was forced into that room at gunpoint or had she walked in there while bamber was killing neville in kitchen she would have junes and nevilles blood on her feet. if led in at gunpoint she would be staring at the rifle and not the floor.she could not have avoided the blood on the floor .she was carried into that room'
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the phone call was always part of the plan .so he could prime police into what they might find.even if he had caught every one asleep;and killed them in their beds than staged the scene he would most certainly have still made the bogus claim of the phone call
Ok but it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how he could expect all concerned to fall for the phone call if he murdered the victims in their respective beds/asleep.
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8((()*/ 8@??)(
He planned to move Neville or June a few feet from their bed. Or let them stumble a few feet, as June did.
Then take take the bedroom phone off the hook.
8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Oh, do come on. Jeremy picked her up and walked her to or from her own bedroom when she was half dead? This simply isn't good enough.
Sufficiently under control? That is ghastly. Just how crackers was she?
Mmmm... I can see this being more difficult to convince you than I thought!
There are different opinions as to the severity of her physical and mental condition. Haloperidol has sedative-like effects. According the CAL's interview with Sheila's closest friend, Tora Tomkinson, Sheila was incapable of getting up from a seated position without help only a week or so before the murders. On the night in question she sounded vacant and vague ("like a zombie") on the phone to June's sister. Jeremy stated that she never participated in the kitchen conversation that night concerning the future of her twins.
My own view is that she was woken up by the noise of the fracas in the main bedroom and on the stairs, and the struggle between Jeremy and his dad in the kitchen; saw the body of June lying on the floor, then tried to hide in the Box Room adjacent to her parents' bedroom, or crouched down so as not to be seen at Nevill's side of the bed when she heard her brother come back upstairs.
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He planned to move Neville or June a few feet from their bed. Or let them stumble a few feet, as June did.
Then take take the bedroom phone off the hook.
Gotcha. But would he be daft enough to not realise that any shot may have made what he was attempting to do impossible from a pathological perspective?
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There was very little blood anywhere on the floor other than the pool that formed around NB and there would be no need for SC to tread there.
SC's feet were never swabbed. DC Hammersley placed bags over her feet at SoC. SC was then placed in a body bag and transferred to the path lab. DC Hammersley removed the bags but they were not forensically analysed. So the potential for much movement existed and for any debris to transfer and get lost in the bags.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=229
This is Dr Vanezis' take on SC's feet from CAL's interview with the Dr: (P322/323)
Her feet were clean, save for a couple of minor bloodspots on the soles, suggesting that she hadn't walked through the kitchen, where the floor into the hallway was stippled with blood, but creating a puzzle regarding the blood-streaked bedroom carpet. Pathologist Dr Vanezis explains that the area of marking and porousness of the carpet should be taken into account: 'An expert on blood spatter might tell you that small spots of blood on the carpet won't transfer so easily, particularly if it's more or less dried. If she'd been carried, would that have been willingly? No, I can't see that. The other thing is: if a gun had been held to her head, she would have been led there and told to lie down. Jeremy would then have to get round this blood, thinking he mustn't touch it. I think it was just small amounts of blood on the carpet and it was the luck of the draw whether she got any on her feet or not.'
Something that never seems to feature is the box room that connects the twins room and main bedroom. Did victim(s) or perp use this at any point for entry or exit?
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There was very little blood anywhere on the floor other than the pool that formed around NB and there would be no need for SC to tread there.
SC's feet were never swabbed. DC Hammersley placed bags over her feet at SoC. SC was then placed in a body bag and transferred to the path lab. DC Hammersley removed the bags but they were not forensically analysed. So the potential for much movement existed and for any debris to transfer and get lost in the bags.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=229
This is Dr Vanezis' take on SC's feet from CAL's interview with the Dr: (P322/323)
Her feet were clean, save for a couple of minor bloodspots on the soles, suggesting that she hadn't walked through the kitchen, where the floor into the hallway was stippled with blood, but creating a puzzle regarding the blood-streaked bedroom carpet. Pathologist Dr Vanezis explains that the area of marking and porousness of the carpet should be taken into account: 'An expert on blood spatter might tell you that small spots of blood on the carpet won't transfer so easily, particularly if it's more or less dried. If she'd been carried, would that have been willingly? No, I can't see that. The other thing is: if a gun had been held to her head, she would have been led there and told to lie down. Jeremy would then have to get round this blood, thinking he mustn't touch it. I think it was just small amounts of blood on the carpet and it was the luck of the draw whether she got any on her feet or not.'
holly look at the crime scene photos.there is blood droplets on nevilles side of the bed .also where june was lying and probably on the stairs too.there is no reason to say the blood droplets were dry as you say.had she walked about 'there would have been more blood on her feet.no examination of the feet were done as you say .but there had been a visual examination of her feet and over 20 police officers never mentioned blood on her feet
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Did Bamber even need Neville or June out of bed ?
He could simply say Neville/June phoned while on the bed. The bedroom phone was next to both of them.
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holly look at the crime scene photos.there is blood droplets on nevilles side of the bed .also where june was lying and probably on the stairs too.there is no reason to say the blood droplets were dry as you say.had she walked about 'there would have been more blood on her feet.no examination of the feet were done as you say .but there had been a visual examination of her feet and over 20 police officers never mentioned blood on her feet
Not my opinion. It's the opinion of Dr Vanezis
Which 20 police officers examined SC's feet?
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Not my opinion. It's the opinion of Dr Vanezis
Which 20 police officers examined SC's feet?
If 20 police officers examined SC's feet it was certainly 20 more than examined and missed the bloody silencer in the gun cupboard!
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Gotcha. But would he be daft enough to not realise that any shot may have made what he was attempting to do impossible from a pathological perspective?
he was not a clever as he thought.in any crime the killer always makes a few mistakes'its human nature.also previously when i mentioned showering in a wet suit 'holly pointed out that the shower in the farm was clean and not used.there is no way he took a nice hot and soothing show at the farm.no.he wiped himself down rode home and than showered.if you take a hot shower than go outdoors wearing light clothing .you will be freezing cold .one officer wrote in his statement bamber look extremely cold while with police outside the farm that morning.
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Not my opinion. It's the opinion of Dr Vanezis
Which 20 police officers examined SC's feet?
every policemen who saw sheilas body.while looking at her not one person who had entered the farm mentions blood on her feet.blood droplets would never dry as quick as you say.
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he was not a clever as he thought.in any crime the killer always makes a few mistakes'its human nature.also previously when i mentioned showering in a wet suit 'holly pointed out that the shower in the farm was clean and not used.there is no way he took a nice hot and soothing show at the farm.no.he wiped himself down rode home and than showered.if you take a hot shower than go outdoors wearing lighting clothing .you will be freezing cold .one officer wrote in his statement bamber look extremely cold while with police outside the farm that morning.
Did I point out that the shower in the farm was clean? I doubt it as I have no idea whether it was clean or not. I bet it wasn't clean to my OCD standards! AE said the shower head was off the bracket and in the tray. That is all I know about the shower.
Which officer said JB looked "extremely cold"?
Catcha later.
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If 20 police officers examined SC's feet it was certainly 20 more than examined and missed the bloody silencer in the gun cupboard!
what evidence have you seen that the silencer was in that cupboard on the morning of the murders .which member of the family was there that morning.to tell police that the rifle was missing a silencer.none.the police were not looking for a silencer because at that point no one had told police the rifle was missing one. i also believe that silencer left the farm that morning in bambers pocket .and was only put back some time after.
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every policemen who saw sheilas body.while looking at her not one person who had entered the farm mentions blood on her feet.blood droplets would never dry as quick as you say.
The fact officers didn't mention something isn't evidence of anything.
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Not my opinion. It's the opinion of Dr Vanezis
Which 20 police officers examined SC's feet?
they may have been dry when the doc saw them 'but he saw the droplets hours after the crime was committed
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what evidence have you seen that the silencer was in that cupboard on the morning of the murders .which member of the family was there that morning.to tell police that the rifle was missing a silencer.none.the police were not looking for a silencer because no at that point had told the rifle was missing one. i also believe that silencer left the farm that morning in bambers pocket .and was only put back days after.
Did the police conduct a thorough search of the cupboard and compile an inventory of its contents? No
Who put the silencer back two days later?
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Did I point out that the shower in the farm was clean? I doubt it as I have no idea whether it was clean or not. I bet it wasn't clean to my OCD standards! AE said the shower head was off the bracket and in the tray. That is all I know about the shower.
Which officer said JB looked "extremely cold"?
Catcha later.
holly check the police statements .i will have to read them all again to tell you the answer.and i cant be botherd at the moment.but its in there.also i think some has said the bottle of fairy liquid kept on the kitchen window seal 'was not there.i think it was the house keeper that said it
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holly check the police statements .i will have to read them all again to tell you the answer.and i cant be botherd at the moment.but its in there.also i think some has said the bottle of fairy liquid kept on the kitchen window seal 'was not there.i think it was the house keeper that said it
Lol I cant be arsed either @)(++(* Jean Boutell, the housekeeper, said a few bits that were normally kept around the sink had been moved but this was later attributed to the police officers cleaning up.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=569.0;attach=1849
sherlock any chance you can support your posts with some documentary evidence?
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iam not sure probably it didnt exist.what the heck is s il vous plait
The Silencer did exist. It was found where it shouldn't have been.
S'il vous plait is just a polite way of saying, "If you please." It's French.
So can we get back to The Silencer?
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Did the police conduct a thorough search of the cupboard and compile an inventory of its contents? No
Who put the silencer back two days later?
bamber did.when it was put back you cant be sure. also dci jones had told them it was suicide and bamber had put the rifle in the scene .he did not tell them anything about a silencer.so why would they make an inventory.it was a suicide theres the rifle that was used.what have the other guns got to do with the events of that morning.
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If 20 police officers examined SC's feet it was certainly 20 more than examined and missed the bloody silencer in the gun cupboard!
Ahemm... Language!!!
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bamber did.when it was put back you cant be sure. also dci jones had told them it was suicide and bamber had put the rifle in the scene .he did not tell them anything about a silencer.so why would they make an inventory.it was a suicide theres the rifle that was used.what have the other guns got to do with the events of that morning.
After the raid team broke in and busted the door Peter Eaton or David Boutflour (cant recall which) slept outside in Chris Nevill's camper van so I dont think JB had the opportunity to re-enter WHF unnoticed before the relatives found the silencer on 10th Aug.
Given the SoC and the other weapons held at WHF I would like to think the police would conduct a thorough search of the gun cupboard even if only to check all the licences were in order.
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After the raid team broke in and busted the door Peter Eaton or David Boutflour (cant recall which) slept outside in Chris Nevill's camper van so I dont think JB had the opportunity to re-enter WHF unnoticed before the relatives found the silencer on 10th Aug.
Given the SoC and the other weapons held at WHF I would like to think the police would conduct a thorough search of the gun cupboard even if only to check all the licences were in order.
checking licences would not have given them any evidence.to help with the crime that morning.they could do it at any point.unless they wanted to charge sheila with not having one.'joke'so bamber never returned to the farm before the 10th can never be proven.he could have come back covertly and replaced the silencer.can you show any proof he never returned before the 10th
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After the raid team broke in and busted the door Peter Eaton or David Boutflour (cant recall which) slept outside in Chris Nevill's camper van so I dont think JB had the opportunity to re-enter WHF unnoticed before the relatives found the silencer on 10th Aug.
Given the SoC and the other weapons held at WHF I would like to think the police would conduct a thorough search of the gun cupboard even if only to check all the licences were in order.
is there some official written evidence that they slept in a camper van out side the house from the moment the police broke the door in or any time after.or is it hearsay
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The Silencer did exist. It was found where it shouldn't have been.
S'il vous plait is just a polite way of saying, "If you please." It's French.
So can we get back to The Silencer?
what would you like explained about the silencer
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Mmmm... I can see this being more difficult to convince you than I thought!
There are different opinions as to the severity of her physical and mental condition. Haloperidol has sedative-like effects. According the CAL's interview with Sheila's closest friend, Tora Tomkinson, Sheila was incapable of getting up from a seated position without help only a week or so before the murders. On the night in question she sounded vacant and vague ("like a zombie") on the phone to June's sister. Jeremy stated that she never participated in the kitchen conversation that night concerning the future of her twins.
My own view is that she was woken up by the noise of the fracas in the main bedroom and on the stairs, and the struggle between Jeremy and his dad in the kitchen; saw the body of June lying on the floor, then tried to hide in the Box Room adjacent to her parents' bedroom, or crouched down so as not to be seen at Nevill's side of the bed when she heard her brother come back upstairs.
You seriously didn't think I would be coerced that easily, did you?
Ho Ho, the plot thickens. So Sheila was totally moribund, was she? So how would she have been capable of hiding?
But she was still alive when Jeremy was killing his Father. After he killed his mother. So Sheila just sat there and waited for Jeremy to kill her?
At what point did he kill The Twins?
You will have to bear with me on this because I have just picked up on a few things that I see as discrepancies, if I was ever interested in the first place.
But I am ever logical, and there doesn't seem to have been much logic applied to this.
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checking licences would not have given them any evidence.to help with the crime that morning.they could do it at any point.unless they wanted to charge sheila with not having one.'joke'so bamber never returned to the farm before the 10th can never be proven.he could have come back covertly and replaced the silencer.can you show any proof he never returned before the 10th
I think if he'd returned the moderator later than on the night he would have disassembled and thoroughly cleaned it to make sure no blood or paint was inside or out. He had to think on the fly when he realised that Sheila wouldn't be able to reach the trigger with the PH fitted, which is why it was a rushed clean-up and concealment job. White House farm was under police control immediately after the murders (and fitted with a new alarm system) until the family were allowed back in. So if Bamber slipped backed in, he was bloody lucky not to get caught.
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is there some official written evidence that they slept in a camper van out side the house from the moment the police broke the door in or any time after.or is it hearsay
It's in AE's WS that either PE or DB slept in Cris Nevill's campervan until the door was replaced/alarm installed. Dont forget JM was with him thereafter. It was harvest time too so the Foakes who lived in the cottages on Pages Lane would be around from dawn to dusk too.
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what would you like explained about the silencer
When was it used? Why was it used? Why was it found where it was? Why was it not where it should have been when The Police found it, according to their scenario?
Can you tell me that?
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When was it used? Why was it used? Why was it found where it was? Why was it not where it should have been when The Police found it, according to their scenario?
Can you tell me that?
i can give you my opinion.it was used on the morning of the murders.to keep the sound of the shots to a minimun ..why he didnt put it back in the gun cupboard i cant explain.i think ann eaton found it not the police.
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I think if he'd returned the moderator later than on the night he would have disassembled and thoroughly cleaned it to make sure no blood or paint was inside or out. He had to think on the fly when he realised that Sheila wouldn't be able to reach the trigger with the PH fitted, which is why it was a rushed clean-up and concealment job. White House farm was under police control immediately after the murders (and fitted with a new alarm system) until the family were allowed back in. So if Bamber slipped backed in, he was bloody lucky not to get caught.
i agree it could have been a rush job .and he may have wanted to exit the farm house quickly.because as i suggested before if june was screaming before she was killed. he could not be sure the foakes didnt hear the screams.
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You seriously didn't think I would be coerced that easily, did you?
Ho Ho, the plot thickens. So Sheila was totally moribund, was she? So how would she have been capable of hiding?
But she was still alive when Jeremy was killing his Father. After he killed his mother. So Sheila just sat there and waited for Jeremy to kill her?
At what point did he kill The Twins?
You will have to bear with me on this because I have just picked up on a few things that I see as discrepancies, if I was ever interested in the first place.
But I am ever logical, and there doesn't seem to have been much logic applied to this.
i think the twins were shot last.they were no danger to him.we have to ask someone who takes the medication sheila was on ,about drowsy side effects with that medication.also the 2 people that could say whether sheila was a heavy sleeper or not 'are dead and bamber is a lier.so we will never know if she was awake or not.she may well have been comforting june at the doorway and heard bamber coming back up the stairs with not enough time to get clean away she could have tryed to lay flat behind nevilles bed
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Did Bamber even need Neville or June out of bed ?
He could simply say Neville/June phoned while on the bed. The bedroom phone was next to both of them.
There was no phone in the bedroom. Jeremy had allegedly played Box and Cox with the house phones
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You seriously didn't think I would be coerced that easily, did you?
Ho Ho, the plot thickens. So Sheila was totally moribund, was she? So how would she have been capable of hiding?
But she was still alive when Jeremy was killing his Father. After he killed his mother. So Sheila just sat there and waited for Jeremy to kill her?
At what point did he kill The Twins?
You will have to bear with me on this because I have just picked up on a few things that I see as discrepancies, if I was ever interested in the first place.
But I am ever logical, and there doesn't seem to have been much logic applied to this.
I think she was sufficiently alert to attempt to hide, though obviously not successfully. It seems odd that she was found wedged up tight against her father's side of the bed, whereas if she was totally out of it with medication she might have been killed in her own room.
The whole incident imo happened quickly, within a few minutes at the most. It only takes around 4 to 5 seconds to fire off a 10 round magazine. Sheila might not have realised that it was her brother, but thought it could have been a burglar or someone with a grievance against Nevill. Bamber might have been masked or blacked up to conceal his identity too, so she didn't recognize him. People have different reactions when having a rifle pointed at them, but being dozy and depressed could have made her more compliant than normal.
I believe the twins were last in line. Between them they took eight shots, thought by Vanezis to have been fired successively, which meant the magazine would be almost empty and have needed refilling before he attempted to kill his parents. Hence more time wasted. Shooting the twins first would also make enough noise to waken his parents and put them on their guard, which is why they were first to be killed.
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Given my stance on the case SC committing suicide in the main bedroom is one of the mysteries for me. I can only specualte over the reasons such as comforting Crispy if he/she was distressed (she was a known animal lover); best vantage point from the main bedroom window to view all the goings on outside especially if she was paranoid she had previously thought the CIA were following her so seeing all the police and TFU with firearms might have really freaked her out especially the loud hailer; June's bible perhaps it was one she knew June marked highlighting text she wanted to read.
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There was no phone in the bedroom. Jeremy had allegedly played Box and Cox with the house phones
The bedroom phone was in the kitchen. He could move it upstairs.
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I think she was sufficiently alert to attempt to hide, though obviously not successfully. It seems odd that she was found wedged up tight against her father's side of the bed, whereas if she was totally out of it with medication she might have been killed in her own room.
The whole incident imo happened quickly, within a few minutes at the most. It only takes around 4 to 5 seconds to fire off a 10 round magazine. Sheila might not have realised that it was her brother, but thought it could have been a burglar or someone with a grievance against Nevill. Bamber might have been masked or blacked up to conceal his identity too, so she didn't recognize him. People have different reactions when having a rifle pointed at them, but being dozy and depressed could have made her more compliant than normal.
I believe the twins were last in line. Between them they took eight shots, thought by Vanezis to have been fired successively, which meant the magazine would be almost empty and have needed refilling before he attempted to kill his parents. Hence more time wasted. Shooting the twins first would also make enough noise to waken his parents and put them on their guard, which is why they were first to be killed.
There is no chance of Sheila hearing the rifle. It is literally silent with the silencer on.
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The bedroom phone was in the kitchen. He could move it upstairs.
If the phone was downstairs, presumably Nevill wouldn't have known. I can't think why you're saying Jeremy could have moved it upstairs when he'd moved it downstairs so Nevill couldn't use it. It would have been of no use once Nevill was dead downstairs and June was dead upstairs.
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If the phone was downstairs, presumably Nevill wouldn't have known. I can't think why you're saying Jeremy could have moved it upstairs when he'd moved it downstairs so Nevill couldn't use it. It would have been of no use once Nevill was dead downstairs and June was dead upstairs.
I've no idea where the phones were on the night of the massacre. But I am sure Neville knew. He did live there.
The bedroom phone was plugged into the kitchen socket. The kitchen phone was underneath magazines, but in working order.
Bamber just had to take the kitchen phone off the hook to disable all phones upon entrance. He was expecting a silent execution with everyone in bed.
If Neville and June were shot and killed in the main bedroom, he just had to plug the bedroom phone in there and take it off the hook.
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There was no phone in the bedroom. Jeremy had allegedly played Box and Cox with the house phones
the kitchen phone was found in perfect working order 'hidden under some magazines. as myster said if his plan had gone the way he wanted.than neville would be on the floor where sheila was found'and bamber would have replaced the bedroom phone from the kitchen and replaced the bedroom phone back upstairs off the hook and the police would think that this was where he phoned bamber from.in other words all phones would be in there proper places with the bedroom one being left off the hook
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I've no idea where the phones were on the night of the massacre. But I am sure Neville knew. He did live there.
The bedroom phone was plugged into the kitchen socket. The kitchen phone was underneath magazines, but in working order.
Bamber just had to take the kitchen phone off the hook to disable all phones upon entrance. He was expecting a silent execution with everyone in bed.
If Neville and June were shot and killed in the main bedroom, he just had to plug the bedroom phone in there and take it off the hook.
Rather than posting more threads, perhaps you should take more advantage of the wealth of information in the blue archives. I'm sure you'll learn about the re positioning of the phones.
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I've no idea where the phones were on the night of the massacre. But I am sure Neville knew. He did live there.
The bedroom phone was plugged into the kitchen socket. The kitchen phone was underneath magazines, but in working order.
Bamber just had to take the kitchen phone off the hook to disable all phones upon entrance. He was expecting a silent execution with everyone in bed.
If Neville and June were shot and killed in the main bedroom, he just had to plug the bedroom phone in there and take it off the hook.
8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Rather than posting more threads, perhaps you should take more advantage of the wealth of information in the blue archives. I'm sure you'll learn about the re positioning of the phones.
the blue site is controlled by bamber supporters.you will find very few truths there
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If the phone was downstairs, presumably Nevill wouldn't have known. I can't think why you're saying Jeremy could have moved it upstairs when he'd moved it downstairs so Nevill couldn't use it. It would have been of no use once Nevill was dead downstairs and June was dead upstairs.
how could he not have known where the phones in his house were.some have said why he went to kitchen and not front door was to either reach the kitchen or office phone 'maybe even try to arm himself from the gun cabinet.i believe at that particular time he had not received the 4 fatal shots the Doctor said would have immediately rendered him unconscious or instant death
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is there any evidence the drops of blood found near sheila and on the blue socks. &%+((£ was hers or junes
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Given my stance on the case SC committing suicide in the main bedroom is one of the mysteries for me. I can only specualte over the reasons such as comforting Crispy if he/she was distressed (she was a known animal lover); best vantage point from the main bedroom window to view all the goings on outside especially if she was paranoid she had previously thought the CIA were following her so seeing all the police and TFU with firearms might have really freaked her out especially the loud hailer; June's bible perhaps it was one she knew June marked highlighting text she wanted to read.
sheila never saw any police .she was deceased well before any police turned up.ds jones asked bamber about that bible in police interview .bamber replied he may have handled that bible .when asked why he said cant remember but maybe to threaten the dog.asked when he threatened the dog.he said NO COMMENT.very telling
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Lol I cant be arsed either @)(++(* Jean Boutell, the housekeeper, said a few bits that were normally kept around the sink had been moved but this was later attributed to the police officers cleaning up.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=569.0;attach=1849
sherlock any chance you can support your posts with some documentary evidence?
yes i will as soon as i learn how to. not very good on computers.i cant even underline a specific sentence .to show what iam responding to.i can just imagine the officers doing the dishes
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the blue site is controlled by bamber supporters.you will find very few truths there
You're right, Sherlock. There was a time when the blue forum had brilliant members - bob, kaldin, Hartley, Sparks, Andrea, Vidvic, Paul and Simon .....sorry if I've missed out some legends. But now it's just poor old mad Mike and Peggy Mount. It's Boresville, Arizona, and does Bamber no favours at all.
(You're right about the bible, too.)
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You're right, Sherlock. There was a time when the blue forum had brilliant members - bob, kaldin, Hartley, Sparks, Andrea, Vidvic, Paul and Simon .....sorry if I've missed out some legends. But now it's just poor old mad Mike and Peggy Mount. It's Boresville, Arizona, and does Bamber no favours at all.
(You're right about the bible, too.)
hi puglove.i think mike tesko is well overdue a drugs test.he wants part of the million pounds the childkiller has offered anyone with evidence to free him
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hi puglove.i think mike tesko is well overdue a drugs test.he wants part of the million pounds the childkiller has offered anyone with evidence to free him
Ho ho!! (I wonder what happened to that million pounds?)
I don't know if you saw it, sherlock, but a couple of weeks ago, Mike made a very entertaining and informative video of himself discussing the case whilst gurning on the toilet. I'm sure it made Bamber feel just that little bit closer to freedom.
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Ho ho!! (I wonder what happened to that million pounds?)
I don't know if you saw it, sherlock, but a couple of weeks ago, Mike made a very entertaining and informative video of himself discussing the case whilst gurning on the toilet. I'm sure it made Bamber feel just that little bit closer to freedom.
no i didnt see it .but the way you put it is very funny @)(++(*never mind a million i dont think hes got a pot to piss in .his grandmother cut him out of her will after the murders .he lost quite a large amount of money
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no i didnt see it .but the way you put it is very funny @)(++(*never find a million i dont think hes got a pot to piss in .his grandmother cut him out of her will after the murder .he lost quite a large amount of money
I think that Bamber is allowed a piss-pot..it's in the corner of his cell. But I know what you mean.
It's always been about the money, for Bamber. There is a very nice person on here called Daisy, who supported Bamber and tried to help him. When she questioned his demands for more dosh, he dumped her. In a very savage way. She meant well, but was treated in a very shabby way. Holly has offered money but, alas, no Christmas card. 8)><(
You have to remember that Bamber stole from his Dad. And said that he would never share "his money" with Sheila and the boys. He's a greedy sod, and not very bright.
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I think that Bamber is allowed a piss-pot..it's in the corner of his cell. But I know what you mean.
It's always been about the money, for Bamber. There is a very nice person on here called Daisy, who supported Bamber and tried to help him. When she questioned his demands for more dosh, he dumped her. In a very savage way. She meant well, but was treated in a very shabby way. Holly has offered money but, alas, no Christmas card. 8)><(
You have to remember that Bamber stole from his Dad. And said that he would never share "his money" with Sheila and the boys. He's a greedy sod, and not very bright.
that was just a joke.he is a lifer and so will have certain privileges a flushing toilet among other things.he is a master at manipulating people especially women with his good looks.he had 2 women jurors crying when they returned a guilty verdict.you certainly hit the nail on the head when you mentioned greed .thats what it was all about .he wanted a playboy life style.he had the looks and charm he just needed money for the playboy life style to begin
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I think that Bamber is allowed a piss-pot..it's in the corner of his cell. But I know what you mean.
It's always been about the money, for Bamber. There is a very nice person on here called Daisy, who supported Bamber and tried to help him. When she questioned his demands for more dosh, he dumped her. In a very savage way. She meant well, but was treated in a very shabby way. Holly has offered money but, alas, no Christmas card. 8)><(
You have to remember that Bamber stole from his Dad. And said that he would never share "his money" with Sheila and the boys. He's a greedy sod, and not very bright.
holly means well. bless her but i think she is wrong if she thinks he is innocent
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science cannot say why some women have a fascination with male killers'but some do.far more than men befriending women killers.the fascination soon ends when the killer does the same to them.
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that was just a joke.he is a lifer and so will have certain privileges a flushing toilet among other things.he is a master at manipulating people especially women with his good looks.he had 2 women jurors crying when they returned a guilty verdict.you certainly hit the nail on the head when you mentioned greed .thats what it was all about .he wanted a playboy life style.he had the looks and charm he just needed money for the playboy life style to begin
This is the problem of "12 good men and true."
I wouldn't want to be judged by my peers. They could be a right mix of nutters and chavs. It's too arbritary. Two silly tarts blarted because Bamber was young and supposedly good-looking. He was still as guilty as hell.
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This is the problem of "12 good men and true."
I wouldn't want to be judged by my peers. They could be a right mix of nutters and chavs. It's too arbritary. Two silly tarts blarted because Bamber was young and supposedly good-looking. He was still as guilty as hell.
excellently put 8((()*/ 8@??)( every jurer should look at facts and not the appearance
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i think the twins were shot last.they were no danger to him.we have to ask someone who takes the medication sheila was on ,about drowsy side effects with that medication.also the 2 people that could say whether sheila was a heavy sleeper or not 'are dead and bamber is a lier.so we will never know if she was awake or not.she may well have been comforting june at the doorway and heard bamber coming back up the stairs with not enough time to get clean away she could have tryed to lay flat behind nevilles bed
That has really upset me, and made me even more suspicious. There is no logic to what you say.
So Jeremy went down the stairs, for what reason? And then came up again to shoot Sheila who was comforting her already dead mother when she knew that Jeremy was likely to shoot her and her children. While making no attempt to protect her children?
This does not make sense.
Oh, and you don't know that Jeremy is a liar. Excepting of course that The Jury thought he was..
Much as I am loathed to say it, because there never was a less perfect parent than I, I would have been fighting him tooth and bloody claw if I thought he was going to actually kill my children. I would not have been comforting my already dead mother. I would have been with my children. Why was she not?
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i dont know if lawyers or solicitors are given drug tests.but Giovanni de Stefano is a well overdue one .he claims mi5 were involved.even a fool could tell you there could only be 2 people who committed this crime sheila or bamber .i think he bought his law qualifications
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science cannot say why some women have a fascination with male killers'but some do.far more than men befriending women killers.the fascination soon ends when the killer does the same to them.
Please don't patronise me.
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Please don't patronise me.
That has really upset me, and made me even more suspicious. There is no logic to what you say.
So Jeremy went down the stairs, for what reason? And then came up again to shoot Sheila who was comforting her already dead mother when she knew that Jeremy was likely to shoot her and her children. While making no attempt to protect her children?
This does not make sense.
Oh, and you don't know that Jeremy is a liar. Excepting of course that The Jury thought he was..
Much as I am loathed to say it, because there never was a less perfect parent than I, I would have been fighting him tooth and bloody claw if I thought he was going to actually kill my children. I would not have been comforting my already dead mother. I would have been with my children. Why was she not?
bamber was down stairs in kitchen finishing off his father.you dont take the same medications as sheila do you. you also dont suffer from mental illness do you.you can only say what you or any mum without mental illness would do .but with sheila we have to think out of the box .because she wasnt your average mother.why would she comfort the woman she hated.i didnt say it happened that way .i was agreeing with myster who wrote that scenario.that it could have happened that way .i favour her being shot in her bed and carried there.he is a proven lier you will have to read the statements yourself ;like i did and you will see that.he said he left the gun in the kitchen. lie.so he changed it and said hallway .and that hallway is sometimes called the back kitchen.he lied about his relationship with his mother
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Please don't patronise me.
its not meant to patronise you or any other woman.its the truth.and was said in response to a chat i was having with puglove .why didnt she feel patronised.dont take things personal .it wasnt meant to offend you
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bamber was down stairs in kitchen finishing off his father.you dont take the same medications as sheila do you. you also dont suffer from mental illness do you.you can only say what you or any mum without mental illness would do .but with sheila we have to think out of the box .because she wasnt your average mother.why would she comfort the woman she hared.i didnt say it happened that way .i was agreeing with myster who wrote that scenario.that it could have happened that way .i favour her being shot in her bed and carried there
Don't assume. I am crackers, always have been. I can promise you that. But this is just not making sense.
Only Sheila was deemed to be mentally unwell. And I have always thought that she was the most likely to have dun it.
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its not meant to patronise you or any other woman.its the truth.and was said in response to a chat i was having with puglove .why didnt she feel patronised.dont take things personal .it wasnt meant to offend you
I am not offended. Sheesh, why is it not possible to disagree with a man, and have a hearty discussion without offending his manhood.
I love PugLove half to death. I just don't agree with her, frequently.
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Don't assume. I am crackers, always have been. I can promise you that. But this is just not making sense.
Only Sheila was deemed to be mentally unwell. And I have always thought that she was the most likely to have dun it.
yes she was unwell but not suicidal or psychotic.but bamber was greedy.and we know what human beings can do when engrossed in greed.humans will do the most unimaginable things for money
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I am not offended. Sheesh, why is it not possible to disagree with a man, and have a hearty discussion without offending his manhood.
I love PugLove half to death. I just don't agree with her, frequently.
i dont feel offended by anything you have said.and unlike most men you can have a hearty discussion with me ;my manhood is so small if it got offended i would just slap it and it would fall back in line @)(++(*
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Don't assume. I am crackers, always have been. I can promise you that. But this is just not making sense.
Only Sheila was deemed to be mentally unwell. And I have always thought that she was the most likely to have dun it.
eleanor we will try and make you a believer in bambers guilt.forget about bamber and just look at sheila .scientists report .no blood on sheilas hands or feet no gunshot residue on her hands or dress.no one had ever seen her fire a rifle .she may have know how to load a magazine but she would not have know how to chamber a round so the rifle could fire.tests done in the lag and shown to the court that loading 10 rounds in that rifle would leave considerable amounts of residue on the testers hands .nowhere near that amount was found.the amount found was only enough for someone one handling household stuff.when you can see sheila could not have done it .it makes bamber guilty by default
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yes is was unwell but not suicidal or psychotic.but bamber was greedy.and we know what human beings can do when engrossed in greed.humans will do the most unimaginable things for money
No, I don't really know what human beings can do. Perhaps I am naive. I never assume. But I only saw this as a discussion.
And to say that Jeremy Bamber was greedy is only your opinion. For all I know he could have hated them all for very different reasons, or even not at all. Perhaps he is a psychopath. I don't know. But he doesn't look like one to me. And I am just uneasy about his conviction. The Police did not handle this very well, even you must be able to see this.
But it has been a pleasure for me to talk to you. It has been a sojourn away from The Madeleine McCann Forum, which is where I mostly have to be.
That lot could make minced meat out of you. They frequently make minced meat out of me. And No, I do not believe that The McCanns dun it.. That is always the rub. Some of us believe in the best of human nature, and some of us don't.
Personally, I believe that it is genetic, but that gets a bit difficult because who can know? But at least I have not spent my life thinking the .worst of anyone.
I will always look for reasons to defend them rather than look for reasons to condemn them.
But there you go. Tell me why this woman appears to have made no attempt to protect her children.
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i dont feel offended by anything you have said.and unlike most men you can have a hearty discussion with me ;my manhood is so small if it got offended i would just slap it and it would fall back in line @)(++(*
Now that is funny. Well done you.
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eleanor we will try and make you a believer in bambers guilt.forget about bamber and just look at sheila .scientists report .no blood on sheilas hands or feet no gunshot residue on her hands or dress.no one had ever seen her fire a rifle .she may have know how to load a magazine but she would not have know how to chamber a round so the rifle could fire.tests done in the lag and shown to the court that loading 10 rounds in that rifle would leave considerable amounts of residue on the testers hands .nowhere near that amount was found.the amount found was only enough for someone one handling household stuff.when you can see sheila could not have done it .it makes bamber guilty by default
"By Default" is simply not good enough. Can you not see that? Did they find Gun Shot Residue on Jeremy Bamber?
And please don't tell me that The Police left it for too long. Even I in my ignorance know that.
And how long do you think it would take me to suss out how to load a gun? Sheila had been around guns for most of her life, while I don't have the first idea. I could do it in about two minutes.. It's hardly rocket science.
.
But I am simply trying to make a case for his innocence
Incidentally, do you remember The Birminigham Six? Or was it The Manchester Ten? Hand forensics mean nothing.
The Police cock up sometimes, and they badly did on this one. Any minute now you will be telling me that Jimmy Savile was a paedophile. Although they appear to have more evidence against him than they ever had against Jeremy Bamber
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That has really upset me, and made me even more suspicious. There is no logic to what you say.
So Jeremy went down the stairs, for what reason? And then came up again to shoot Sheila who was comforting her already dead mother when she knew that Jeremy was likely to shoot her and her children. While making no attempt to protect her children?
This does not make sense.
Oh, and you don't know that Jeremy is a liar. Excepting of course that The Jury thought he was..
Much as I am loathed to say it, because there never was a less perfect parent than I, I would have been fighting him tooth and bloody claw if I thought he was going to actually kill my children. I would not have been comforting my already dead mother. I would have been with my children. Why was she not?
Sheila didn't wake. There was no blood on her feet and hands. Which there would have been if she had attended to June.
The twins didn't wake either. The rifle with the silencer is virtually silent.
Bamber shot Sheila once, last, in bed and carried her out of bed to make it look like she had been up. Then shot her again in the main bedroom when he realised she was still alive.
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"By Default" is simply not good enough. Can you not see that? Did they find Gun Shot Residue on Jeremy Bamber?
And please don't tell me that The Police left it for too long. Even I in my ignorance know that.
And how long do you think it would take me to suss out how to load a gun? Sheila had been around guns for most of her life, while I don't have the first idea. I could do it in about two minutes.. It's hardly rocket science.
.
But I am simply trying to make a case for his innocence
Incidentally, do you remember The Birminigham Six? Or was it The Manchester Ten? Hand forensics mean nothing.
The Police cock up sometimes, and they badly did on this one. Any minute now you will be telling me that Jimmy Savile was a paedophile. Although they appear to have more evidence against him than they ever had against Jeremy Bamber
You answered you're own question. No gun shot residue on Bamber as he wasn't investigated for several weeks. Why was there no gun shot residue on Sheila. Or oil.
Sheila had to chamber and load the rifle, twice and shoot everyone accurately. Bamber testified she had 'limited' experience with guns. I suspect she had none.
Can you explain how Sheila successfully committed the massacre ? Point by point. You need to include two chambers and reloads, one/two telephone calls from Neville and Neville's horrific beating.
There is a forensic evidence library on another forum. It's currently half completed, but currently has a mountain of forensic evidence against Bamber.
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No, I don't really know what human beings can do. Perhaps I am naive. I never assume. But I only saw this as a discussion.
And to say that Jeremy Bamber was greedy is only your opinion. For all I know he could have hated them all for very different reasons, or even not at all. Perhaps he is a psychopath. I don't know. But he doesn't look like one to me. And I am just uneasy about his conviction. The Police did not handle this very well, even you must be able to see this.
But it has been a pleasure for me to talk to you. It has been a sojourn away from The Madeleine McCann Forum, which is where I mostly have to be.
That lot could make minced meat out of you. They frequently make minced meat out of me. And No, I do not believe that The McCanns dun it.. That is always the rub. Some of us believe in the best of human nature, and some of us don't.
Personally, I believe that it is genetic, but that gets a bit difficult because who can know? But at least I have not spent my life thinking the .worst of anyone.
I will always look for reasons to defend them rather than look for reasons to condemn them.
But there you go. Tell me why this woman appears to have made no attempt to protect her children.
The police changed direction after one month. This was after evidence was processed and Julie came forward. Nothing sinister in that.
Some police were suspicious from the start, it was probably more the media that were bigging up the murder/suicide theory. It made good press.
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You answered you're own question. No gun shot residue on Bamber as he wasn't investigated for several weeks. Why was there no gun shot residue on Sheila. Or oil.
Sheila had to chamber and load the rifle, twice and shoot everyone accurately. Bamber testified she had 'limited' experience with guns. I suspect she had none.
Can you explain how Sheila successfully committed the massacre ? Point by point. You need to include two chambers and reloads, one/two telephone calls from Neville and Neville's horrific beating.
There is a forensic evidence library on another forum. It's currently half completed, but currently has a mountain of forensic evidence against Bamber.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6629.msg272805#msg272805
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It wasn't windy neither was there any inclement weather inside the bedroom and Sheila didn't move her hands after she was shot dead. You're trying to make out that Cooke waved Sheila's hand all over the place for ages, when in fact it was only slightly moved to examine and photograph blood stains or lack of, on her hands and nightie.
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It wasn't windy neither was there any inclement weather inside the bedroom and Sheila didn't move her hands after she was shot dead. You're trying to make out that Cooke waved Sheila's hand all over the place for ages, when in fact it was only slightly moved to examine and photograph blood stains or lack of, on her hands and nightie.
DC Hammersly must have moved SC's hands significantly to place them in polythene bags and then secure the bags in place. Further significant movement occurred when they were removed at the path lab. After all that her hands were swabbed. Anything of evidential value left in the bags was lost as they were not sent to the lab for forensic analysis.
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Sheila didn't wake. There was no blood on her feet and hands. Which there would have been if she had attended to June.
The twins didn't wake either. The rifle with the silencer is virtually silent.
Bamber shot Sheila once, last, in bed and carried her out of bed to make it look like she had been up. Then shot her again in the main bedroom when he realised she was still alive.
excellent summary adam 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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excellent summary adam 8((()*/ 8@??)(
Excellent if you choose to believe adam over Dr Vanezis 8)--)) I know who my money is on ?>)()<
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https://youtu.be/8ow_YqRICT4
This is how quiet a similar rifle is with a silencer.
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Excellent if you choose to believe adam over Dr Vanezis 8)--)) I know who my money is on ?>)()<
yes i do as a matter of fact.the bunglar dr vanezis and the other doctor were fooled by bambers acting and they were already approaching the scene with murder suicide theory.and thats how they were accessing the evidence around them.adam has had 29 years to look at this case without rushing to any conclusions hence makes his opinion equal to the doctors &%+((£.
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"By Default" is simply not good enough. Can you not see that? Did they find Gun Shot Residue on Jeremy Bamber?
And please don't tell me that The Police left it for too long. Even I in my ignorance know that.
And how long do you think it would take me to suss out how to load a gun? Sheila had been around guns for most of her life, while I don't have the first idea. I could do it in about two minutes.. It's hardly rocket science.
.
But I am simply trying to make a case for his innocence
Incidentally, do you remember The Birminigham Six? Or was it The Manchester Ten? Hand forensics mean nothing.
The Police cock up sometimes, and they badly did on this one. Any minute now you will be telling me that Jimmy Savile was a paedophile. Although they appear to have more evidence against him than they ever had against Jeremy Bamber
the police made lots of mistakes and bad decisions but their mistakes did not change the evidence found at the scene.as for jim willfixit.he couldnt fix it for himself
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https://youtu.be/8ow_YqRICT4
This is how quiet a similar rifle is with a silencer.
add to that the fact sheila may have been fast asleep under medication
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Sheila didn't wake. There was no blood on her feet and hands. Which there would have been if she had attended to June.
She did wake. The blood on her night dress shows she was sitting up when one of the shots were fired. There was blood on her hands, if you look at the high resolution photos from the sky3 program you can see it clearly along with her bloody fingerprints on the night dress , you can also read Vanesiz original autopsy were he writes the palm of her hand was bloody.
Bamber shot Sheila once, last, in bed and carried her out of bed to make it look like she had been up. Then shot her again in the main bedroom when he realised she was still alive.
There is no blood on Sheila's bed or the room she was sleeping in that night. the above theory is impossible
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add to that the fact sheila may have been fast asleep under medication
You cant make a judgment on how loud the weapon would be based on a video clip. Turn the volume up and down and the gun then seems as loud or as quiet as you like it to be.
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She did wake. The blood on her night dress shows she was sitting up when one of the shots were fired. There was blood on her hands, if you look at the high resolution photos from the sky3 program you can see it clearly along with her bloody fingerprints on the night dress , you can also read Vanesiz original autopsy were he writes the palm of her hand was bloody.
There is no blood on Sheila's bed or the room she was sleeping in that night. the above theory is impossible
if there was blood on sheilas sheet bamber would have simple changed it and took the blooded one with him.i dont think she was ever awake .when he staged the scene sheila hand could have touched her nightie.it also could get there as he carried her to the bedroom.lifted as i have suggested her right arm would be tight against her body on top and tightly against bambers chest.
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if there was blood on sheilas sheet bamber would have simple changed it and took the blooded one with him.i dont think she was ever awake .when he staged the scene sheila hand could have touched her nightie.it also could get there as he carried her to the bedroom.lifted as i have suggested her right arm would be tight against her body on top and tightly against bambers chest.
If he staged the scene not when. I cannot imagine Jeremy taking bloody bed sheets on his bike ride back home along with his scuba diving outfit this is getting beyond rediculas
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If he staged the scene not when. I cannot imagine Jeremy taking bloody bed sheets on his bike ride back home along with his scuba diving outfit this is getting beyond rediculas
no when he staged the scene .if sheila was sleeping with her head on the pillow when shot. there may have only been blood on that pillow and not on the sheet.a bedsheet form a single bed can be folded up smaller than you think.he wasnt over loaded in my opinion.he arrived at the farm that morning wearing wetsuit trainers.a jacket scarf around his face so no one would recognise him had they seen him riding the bike. and mask in his pocket
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She did wake. The blood on her night dress shows she was sitting up when one of the shots were fired. There was blood on her hands, if you look at the high resolution photos from the sky3 program you can see it clearly along with her bloody fingerprints on the night dress , you can also read Vanesiz original autopsy were he writes the palm of her hand was bloody.
There is no blood on Sheila's bed or the room she was sleeping in that night. the above theory is impossible
She may have been sitting up for the first or second shot.
Bamber may have pulled a sleeping Sheila into a sitting position when she was in bed. To get a good aim. That would not be hard.
Or his second shot in the main bedroom she may have been sitting up. The 2002 appeal report said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot.
There is no reason why there should be blood in Sheila's bed. If she was sitting up and then carried away straight away. Nothing would drip down.
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You cant make a judgment on how loud the weapon would be based on a video clip. Turn the volume up and down and the gun then seems as loud or as quiet as you like it to be.
You seem to believe the silencer would not have made a rifle for shooting vermin, virtually silent. Despite a video clip.
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if there was blood on sheilas sheet bamber would have simple changed it and took the blooded one with him.i dont think she was ever awake .when he staged the scene sheila hand could have touched her nightie.it also could get there as he carried her to the bedroom.lifted as i have suggested her right arm would be tight against her body on top and tightly against bambers chest.
That's a good point. He had that option.
Maybe he did do this and then made Sheila's bed. Supporters often say Sheila's bed looks like it had never been slept in.
Or as you said, he just needed to take one pillow case. Sheila would have been shot once in the neck while in bed.
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no when he staged the scene .if sheila was sleeping with her head on the pillow when shot. there may have only been blood on that pillow and not on the sheet.a bedsheet form a single bed can be folded up smaller than you think.he wasnt over loaded in my opinion.he arrived at the farm that morning wearing wetsuit trainers.a jacket scarf around his face so no one would recognise him had they seen him riding the bike. and mask in his pocket
No if he staged the scene. I suggest you look at the crime scene photos of the room Shelia slept in the pillows are spotless, even more importantly the blood spatter or Shelias night dress shows she was sitting up when shot then fell backwards. Your theories do not match the crime scene.
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She may have been sitting up for the first or second shot.
Bamber may have pulled a sleeping Sheila into a sitting position when she was in bed. To get a good aim. That would not be hard.
Or his second shot in the main bedroom she may have been sitting up. The 2002 appeal report said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot.
There is no reason why there should be blood in Sheila's bed. If she was sitting up and then carried away straight away. Nothing would drip down.
my thoughts exactly adam.also the blood splatter expert saying she was shot first while sitting up right.but i think she could have been shot while flat than taken and placed up right in the bedroom.still alive she would than have been pulled flat and shot again/
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No if he staged the scene. I suggest you look at the crime scene photos of the room Shelia slept in the pillows are spotless, even more importantly the blood spatter or Shelias night dress shows she was sitting up when shot then fell backwards. Your theories do not match the crime scene.
they would be be spotless because the pillow case never had sheila head on it .its the one he replaced.i suggest .i dont see any blood splatter on her nightie. i can see where blood has ran and pooled also soaked into her nightie.you would not get much splatter from a .22 bullet.plus there are no edges to the blood found on her showing me the blood has soaked not splatted/.a splatter is when blood is thrown from a wound .and by the streaks it makes when it lands expert could than tell you which directions it came from
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People seem to think because she may have been sitting when receiving a shot, that she was awake.
Bamber had the freedom to move her into his chosen positions. The first shot because she was asleep. The second because she had already been shot. Bamber was also a lot stronger than her.
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People seem to think because she may have been sitting when receiving a shot, that she was awake.
Bamber had the freedom to move her into his chosen positions. The first shot because she was asleep. The second because she had already been shot. Bamber was also a lot stronger than her.
correct 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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they would be be spotless because the pillow case never had sheila head on it .its the one he replaced.i suggest .i dont see any blood splatter on her nightie. i can see where blood has ran and pooled also soaked into her nightie.you would not get much splatter from a .22 bullet.plus there are no edges to the blood found on her showing me the blood has soaked not splatted/.a splatter is when blood is thrown from a wound .and by the streaks it makes when it lands expert could than tell you which directions it came from
Bamber had the option of replacing a pillow case. He would know where they were. Or he could have just put his hand over the first bullet wound, prior to carrying her. That's if the blood was gushing out of neck like it does in the horror films.
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People seem to think because she may have been sitting when receiving a shot, that she was awake.
Bamber had the freedom to move her into his chosen positions. The first shot because she was asleep. The second because she had already been shot. Bamber was also a lot stronger than her.
Adam she was not shot while asleep there is no blood on her bed and no blood in the room she was staying in what so ever.
For your version of events to be true Jeremy would have to not only have changed her bed sheets but to have replaced the carpet in the bedroom Shelia was sleeping in before he left the scene.
The blood on the carpet in the main bedroom is not consistent with a shot body being moved or dragged. Jeremy would then have to replace that carpet also then some how use residual blood to re simulate the event.
Its easy to say Jeremy could do this and could do that but your really under estimating what is required in order.
There is no evidence of Jeremy replacing sheets and its impossible for him to install new carpets after he killed everyone but before he returned home to call the police. This is utterly absurd or ridiculous
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People seem to think because she may have been sitting when receiving a shot, that she was awake.
Bamber had the freedom to move her into his chosen positions. The first shot because she was asleep. The second because she had already been shot. Bamber was also a lot stronger than her.
How come if Sheila was asleep, she was also capable of sitting up at the side of her parents' bed while Bamber delivered the first shot almost perpendicular to her neck? If you're asleep you body acts like a ragdoll with no resistance to gravity. She must have been at least partially sat up and awake because of the blood spray between arm and chest.
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How come if Sheila was asleep, she was also capable of sitting up at the side of her parents' bed while Bamber delivered the first shot almost perpendicular to her neck? If you're asleep you body acts like a ragdoll with no resistance to gravity. She must have been at least partially sat up and awake because of the blood spray between arm and chest.
was she capable of sitting no she was propped up against the bedcabinet.her head would have fallen .hence leaking blood on to nightie.but a doubt if the whole body would have fallen forward or sideways definitely not backwards the cabinet was there.i disagree about the blood spray as you put it.all the blood spots around sheila were dropped and not thrown there are no streaks or sharp points in those droplets
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they would be be spotless because the pillow case never had sheila head on it .its the one he replaced.i suggest .i dont see any blood splatter on her nightie. i can see where blood has ran and pooled also soaked into her nightie.you would not get much splatter from a .22 bullet.plus there are no edges to the blood found on her showing me the blood has soaked not splatted/.a splatter is when blood is thrown from a wound .and by the streaks it makes when it lands expert could than tell you which directions it came from
Bamber had the option of replacing a pillow case. He would know where they were. Or he could have just put his hand over the first bullet wound, prior to carrying her. That's if the blood was gushing out of neck like it does in the horror films.
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Adam she was not shot while asleep there is no blood on her bed and no blood in the room she was staying in what so ever.
For your version of events to be true Jeremy would have to not only have changed her bed sheets but to have replaced the carpet in the bedroom Shelia was sleeping in before he left the scene.
The blood on the carpet in the main bedroom is not consistent with a shot body being moved or dragged. Jeremy would then have to replace that carpet also then some how use residual blood to re simulate the event.
Its easy to say Jeremy could do this and could do that but your really under estimating what is required in order.
There is no evidence of Jeremy replacing sheets and its impossible for him to install new carpets after he killed everyone but before he returned home to call the police. This is utterly absurd or ridiculous
Why would there be blood ? She was shot once in the neck with a rifle used for shooting rabbits. Or the pillow case was replaced. Simple.
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Bamber had the option of replacing a pillow case. He would know where they were. Or he could have just put his hand over the first bullet wound, prior to carrying her. That's if the blood was gushing out of neck like it does in the horror films.
and if not his hand than a piece of cloth 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Adam she was not shot while asleep there is no blood on her bed and no blood in the room she was staying in what so ever.
For your version of events to be true Jeremy would have to not only have changed her bed sheets but to have replaced the carpet in the bedroom Shelia was sleeping in before he left the scene.
The blood on the carpet in the main bedroom is not consistent with a shot body being moved or dragged. Jeremy would then have to replace that carpet also then some how use residual blood to re simulate the event.
Its easy to say Jeremy could do this and could do that but your really under estimating what is required in order.
There is no evidence of Jeremy replacing sheets and its impossible for him to install new carpets after he killed everyone but before he returned home to call the police. This is utterly absurd or ridiculous
Are you an expert in blood patterns ? Saying this or that is not consistent with her blood patterns.
How did Sheila end up in the main bedroom. Don't tell me you are one of people who believe she slept with June.
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and if not his hand than a piece of cloth 8((()*/ 8@??)(
That's right. A piece of cloth over her first bullet wound. Then lift her like a mother cradles a baby, for the ten seconds it takes to put Sheila in the main bedroom.
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It's surprising that people believe Sheila would be pouring with blood all over the bed and carpet. After one shot into the neck from a rifle used for shooting rabbits. But each to their own.
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Why would there be blood ? She was shot once in the neck with a rifle used for shooting rabbits. Or the pillow case was replaced. Simple.
Adam the Neck has allot of blood circulation. In a text book I have written by William G. Eckert, MD
Forensic Pathologist Simi Valley, California and co authored by Stuart H. James and Associates Forensic Consultants.
I quote from page 123
Injuries to the neck produced by penetration of a projectile or by
slashing or stabbing with a sharp instrument may produce severe bleeding
due to the severance of the jugular vein or the carotid arteries. These major
vessels of the neck are located near the surface and have a fixed structure
beneath them and are perhaps the most vulnerable vessels in the body. The
resulting hemorrhage is massive and disabling. Bleeding from the carotid
arteries is rapid as it exits under pressure. The resulting bloodstain patterns
are distinctive in their appearance. Death may ensue quickly due to acute
blood loss and reduced oxygen supply to the brain.
I hope this answers your question
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Adam she was not shot while asleep there is no blood on her bed and no blood in the room she was staying in what so ever.
For your version of events to be true Jeremy would have to not only have changed her bed sheets but to have replaced the carpet in the bedroom Shelia was sleeping in before he left the scene.
The blood on the carpet in the main bedroom is not consistent with a shot body being moved or dragged. Jeremy would then have to replace that carpet also then some how use residual blood to re simulate the event.
Its easy to say Jeremy could do this and could do that but your really under estimating what is required in order.
There is no evidence of Jeremy replacing sheets and its impossible for him to install new carpets after he killed everyone but before he returned home to call the police. This is utterly absurd or ridiculous
there is certainly no evidence that bamber didnt change the sheets or pillow case.there would be no blood on the carpet when he moved her .it would have leaked onto her nightie and on bamber.also if he placed a teeshirt or cloth was wrapped around in slightly in front of the silencer .than fired the shot all splatter would be contained on the cloth or teeshirt .the same cloth would have than been placed on her wound .than she would have been carried and propped against the bed cabinet.
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Adam the Neck has allot of blood circulation. In a text book I have written by William G. Eckert, MD
Forensic Pathologist Simi Valley, California and co authored by Stuart H. James and Associates Forensic Consultants.
I quote from page 123
Injuries to the neck produced by penetration of a projectile or by
slashing or stabbing with a sharp instrument may produce severe bleeding
due to the severance of the jugular vein or the carotid arteries. These major
vessels of the neck are located near the surface and have a fixed structure
beneath them and are perhaps the most vulnerable vessels in the body. The
resulting hemorrhage is massive and disabling. Bleeding from the carotid
arteries is rapid as it exits under pressure. The resulting bloodstain patterns
are distinctive in their appearance. Death may ensue quickly due to acute
blood loss and reduced oxygen supply to the brain.
I hope this answers your question
It doesn't. And you haven't said how Sheila ended up in the main bedroom.
Do you believe she slept with June ?
Other suggestions are she was lead at gun point or persuaded to. Or maybe a combination. They are possible providing her footsteps avoided June's blood.
I am sure everyone finally agrees her and the twins slept through it all until it was their turn. Bamber would be mad to risk a 6.4 male and his wife getting out of bed while he prioritised two 6 year old's. Besides which there was none of June's blood on Sheila's hands and feet.
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there is certainly no evidence that bamber didnt change the sheets or pillow case.there would be no blood on the carpet when he moved her .it would have leaked onto her nightie and on bamber.also if he placed a teeshirt or cloth was wrapped around in slightly in front of the silencer .than fired the shot all splatter would be contained on the cloth or teeshirt .the same cloth would have than been placed on her wound .than she would have been carried and propped against the bed cabinet.
That's a good point. He could shoot her once and then just put a large plaster or wrap around bandage on the wound straight away. That would prevent any bleeding onto the bed.
Then take it off a few seconds later with Sheila in the main bedroom.
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there is certainly no evidence that bamber didnt change the sheets or pillow case.there would be no blood on the carpet when he moved her .it would have leaked onto her nightie and on bamber.also if he placed a teeshirt or cloth was wrapped around in slightly in front of the silencer .than fired the shot all splatter would be contained on the cloth or teeshirt .the same cloth would have than been placed on her wound .than she would have been carried and propped against the bed cabinet.
You say there is no proof Bamber did not change the sheets, that's not how it works the burden of proof is on you to find evidence to suggest he did change the sheets and pillow case. Its not down to me to prove a negative.
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Bamber either forced Sheila at gun point, persuaded Sheila, or carried her.
The first two may have to be ruled out, dependant on where June's blood was. As Sheila's feet were blood free.
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It doesn't. And you haven't said how Sheila ended up in the main bedroom.
Its simple, she either walked into the room herself then seeing the police from outside the main bedroom window realised suicide was the best option. Or Jeremy chased her into that location pinned her to the floor then forced the barrel of the rifle on her neck then shot her.
Why overcomplicate things with over-imaginative and fanciful theories? That is Mikes Speciality
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Its simple, she either walked into the room herself then seeing the police from outside the main bedroom window realised suicide was the best option. Or Jeremy chased her into that location pinned her to the floor then forced the barrel of the rifle on her neck then shot her.
Why overcomplicate things with over-imaginative and fanciful theories? That is Mikes Speciality
Surely you're not saying Bamber could be innocent ? Oh yes I await you're third modified scenario of how Sheila did it. The last one had Neville phoning Bamber after Sheila shot the twins.
Why was none of June's blood on Sheila's hands and feet ? There was no possibility of Sheila waking. She was asleep, under sedation with her bedroom door closed. The rifle with a silencer on is errr silent ?
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Surely you're not saying Bamber could be innocent ? Oh yes I await you're third modified scenario of how Sheila did it.
Why was none of June's blood on Sheila's hands and feet ? There was no possibility of Sheila waking. She was asleep, under sedation with her bedroom door closed. The rifle with a silencer on is errr silent ?
nicely put adam 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Surely you're not saying Bamber could be innocent ? Oh yes I await you're third modified scenario of how Sheila did it.
Why was none of June's blood on Sheila's hands and feet ? There was no possibility of Sheila waking. She was asleep, under sedation with her bedroom door closed. The rifle with a silencer on is errr silent ?
Yes I am saying Bamber could be innocent that's my opinion. I hope he is not innocent because that would be rather tragic don't you think?
In a senario of Shelia killing herself its always possible she done so at a later time once all the blood of the other deceased had dried into the carpet.
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nicely put adam 8((()*/ 8@??)(
Thank you. To be fair, David did create a scenario. Which I'm sure he will happily post for you. Neville waking after hearing shots, then seeing Sheila standing over the twins with the rifle. Neville then going downstairs to phone Bamber.
All other supporters refuse point blank or just don't answer. I created a point by point scenario of how Bamber did it. Which I will happily post on here.
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Thank you. To be fair, David did create a scenario. Which I'm sure he will happily post for you. Neville waking after hearing shots, then seeing Sheila standing over the twins with the rifle. Neville then going downstairs to phone Bamber.
All other supporters refuse point blank or just don't answer. I created a point by point scenario of how Bamber did it. Which I will happily post on here.
please do adam i would love to read it.if we take bits of every ones theories .we might get a census on how he committed the crime.or get close to it 8((()*/
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one thing we do know was that bamber was a criminal before the murders.also if he did stage a scene that morning .and i think he did.it would be nothing new to him he previously staged one at the caravan park office.when he burgled it. &%+((£
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Cycle to WHF:
Evidence - Bike recently made available. Easy journey. Unseen.
Get into WHF
Evidence - Bathroom window loose or open. Quiet entrance.
Pick up rifle:
Evidence ' Fully loaded rifle available as stated by Jeremy.
Enter main bedroom:
Evidence - Two adults in this room who must be killed first as potential to provide most resistance.
Shoot an in bed June and Neville:
Evidence - Nine of the 11 shots were from inches away by or in the bed.
Go to reload or chase Neville:
Evidence - Spare bullets found in kitchen.
Kitchen fight:
Evidence - Neville was brutally beaten there.
Shoot and kill a knocked out Neville:
Evidence - Four kitchen head shots into Neville.
Return upstairs:
Evidence - All other shots upstairs.
Either wake and shoot or shoot an already awake Sheila:
Evidence - Sheila found shot in the corner of main bedroom.
Shoot June once:
Evidence - June had moved a few feet. Third head shot required.
Reload, shoot the sleeping twins:
Evidence - Twins shot 8 times in bed. Amount of bullets used shows two reloads carried out on the night.
Stage the scene:
Evidence - Gun and bible by Sheila. Silencer put in a box.
Exit out of kitchen window:
Evidence - Twenty sources say it can be banged shut from outside.
Cycle home:
Evidence - Bike found at Jeremy's cottage.
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Copied from another forum. So bits that were bold and underlined, are not on here.
I should re do as it now seems Sheila was shot in bed and carried to the main bedroom.
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i have a new theory for mike tesko.but iam not a member of the blue site so someone on here might forward it to him.and here it is.neville was having affair with Babara wilson and had told her he had changed his will to leave her everything he owned .but Babara wanted the money only and not neville.so she waited outside the farm until neville had finished the killings and were ready to run away together .but Babara had other plans.she took the rifle and killed neville .so she could have it all.why not its about as believable as some of the theories he has come out with @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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Cycle to WHF:
Evidence - Bike recently made available. Easy journey. Unseen.
Get into WHF
Evidence - Bathroom window loose or open. Quiet entrance.
Pick up rifle:
Evidence ' Fully loaded rifle available as stated by Jeremy.
Enter main bedroom:
Evidence - Two adults in this room who must be killed first as potential to provide most resistance.
Shoot an in bed June and Neville:
Evidence - Nine of the 11 shots were from inches away by or in the bed.
Go to reload or chase Neville:
Evidence - Spare bullets found in kitchen.
Kitchen fight:
Evidence - Neville was brutally beaten there.
Shoot and kill a knocked out Neville:
Evidence - Four kitchen head shots into Neville.
Return upstairs:
Evidence - All other shots upstairs.
Either wake and shoot or shoot an already awake Sheila:
Evidence - Sheila found shot in the corner of main bedroom.
Shoot June once:
Evidence - June had moved a few feet. Third head shot required.
Reload, shoot the sleeping twins:
Evidence - Twins shot 8 times in bed. Amount of bullets used shows two reloads carried out on the night.
Stage the scene:
Evidence - Gun and bible by Sheila. Silencer put in a box.
Exit out of kitchen window:
Evidence - Twenty sources say it can be banged shut from outside.
Cycle home:
Evidence - Bike found at Jeremy's cottage.
excellent theory Adam .sounds good to me and i will give my backing to it 8((()*/ 8@??)( 8@??)(
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i also adamantly believe sheila could not and did not know how to chamber a round on that rifle.as some one who knows about firearms has said on this site.that she may have figured out the magazine release button but not how a round would be chambered.there is no one that can say they saw sheila touch clean or fire a rifle in their lives.i think that says alot about her interest in firearms
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i also adamantly believe sheila could not and did not know how to chamber a round on that rifle.as some one who knows about firearms has said on this site.that she may have figured out the magazine release button but not how a round would be chambered.there is no one that can say they saw sheila touch clean or fire a rifle in their lives.i think that says alot about her interest in firearms
Peter Eaton said in his draft answers for the COLP interview that he had seen Shelia use and fire a gun at a holiday in Scotland. This was also mentioned at trial and the Dickinson Inquiry. There are many discrepancies in this area, Also there exists a Photo of Shelia holding a gun that David Boultflour sais he himself has seen.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5DLsf0UggyWN1FEdlh5dUdRWkNfR0prdUJVclFldw/view?pref=2&pli=1 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5DLsf0UggyWN1FEdlh5dUdRWkNfR0prdUJVclFldw/view?pref=2&pli=1)
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Peter Eaton said in his draft answers for the COLP interview that he had seen Shelia use and fire a gun at a holiday in Scotland. This was also mentioned at trial and the Dickinson Inquiry. There are many discrepancies in this area, Also there exists a Photo of Shelia holding a gun that David Boultflour sais he himself has seen.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5DLsf0UggyWN1FEdlh5dUdRWkNfR0prdUJVclFldw/view?pref=2&pli=1 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5DLsf0UggyWN1FEdlh5dUdRWkNfR0prdUJVclFldw/view?pref=2&pli=1)
how old was she when on that holiday.8.can you show the gun she holding is real.could it be an air rifle or a plastic rifle.you cannot prove its real.also i have to sturdy the document .which you have linked.to see if its real .also why not mention the fact she could not have known how to release the mag and chamber a round.
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Its simple, she either walked into the room herself then seeing the police from outside the main bedroom window realised suicide was the best option. Or Jeremy chased her into that location pinned her to the floor then forced the barrel of the rifle on her neck then shot her.
Why overcomplicate things with over-imaginative and fanciful theories? That is Mikes Speciality
if she walked or was chased into the room where are there no blood stains on her feet .why in the photo of her laying on the floor next to the blood droplets .are the droplets not smudged as she would have had to walk over them
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if she walked or was chased into the room where are there no blood stains on her feet .why in the photo of her laying on the floor next to the blood droplets .are the droplets not smudged as she would have had to walk over them
Because it was a carpet not tiles. Blood soaks into carpeting and other fabric materials. Even on tile though stepping in a drip is not going to spread much. If blood pools then it will stick well to most of a foot or shoe thus allowing the foot or shoe to leave recognizable prints and the print can be found in the blood pool itself sometimes.
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Because it was a carpet not tiles. Blood soaks into carpeting and other fabric materials. Even on tile though stepping in a drip is not going to spread much. If blood pools then it will stick well to most of a foot or shoe thus allowing the foot or shoe to leave recognizable prints and the print can be found in the blood pool itself sometimes.
i stand corrected.thank you master.scipio usmc 8)><(
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also why not mention the fact she could not have known how to release the mag and chamber a round.
Because its not a fact she did not know how to operate and reload the rifle, The women was not stupid.
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i stand corrected.thank you master 8)><(
sherlock, could you refer to members by their correct name please.
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Peter Eaton said in his draft answers for the COLP interview that he had seen Shelia use and fire a gun at a holiday in Scotland. This was also mentioned at trial and the Dickinson Inquiry. There are many discrepancies in this area, Also there exists a Photo of Shelia holding a gun that David Boultflour sais he himself has seen.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5DLsf0UggyWN1FEdlh5dUdRWkNfR0prdUJVclFldw/view?pref=2&pli=1 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5DLsf0UggyWN1FEdlh5dUdRWkNfR0prdUJVclFldw/view?pref=2&pli=1)
It's always been very flimsy that Sheila knew how to chamber, load and accurately fire the rifle, because she went on a shooting party, nine years earlier.
There is nothing saying she was taught how to load and chamber a rifle on this shooting party. Or that she even fired any bullets. If she did fire bullets, it would have been from a rifle already loaded for her.
She was 18 at the time, so doubtful anyone at the shooting party would teach her to load and chamber, or she was interested in learning. If a woman has shown no interest by the time she is 18, things won't change. And they didn't. She probably went along for a bit of fresh air and exercise.
CC said she had no experience of guns. Bamber testified she had 'limited' experience with guns. Which probably meant she fired a water pistol one summer. He couldn't say 'no' experience at court.
Sheila was in a mad rage. AE said she could see Sheila firing off ten bullets of an already loaded gun, but not chambering and re loading. She could barely put sugar into coffee.
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Wasn't Sheila so much anti guns that she wouldn't allow her sons to play with toy guns?
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Wasn't Sheila so much anti guns that she wouldn't allow her sons to play with toy guns?
A toy gun was found on a table in one of the other rooms, so Uncle Jem probably bought it for the twins and was teaching them straight-shooting in the opium fields.
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sherlock, could you refer to members by their correct name please.
is it alright to put master before their names.the post above everybody can see who iam replying to and referring to.if you dont want me to refer to you as master admin please tell me and i will stop.the things some people call each other on here are far worse than being called master.and it makes a change to compliment someone rather than call them something derogatory.have John or Scipio usmc.been offended by me calling them master.if so they can massage me and tell me to stop.why you would write the above i do not know iam only showing some respect which makes a change on here 8()(((@#
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You can call me anything you want, sherlock... Mystermaster or Mastermyster will suffice and boost my flagging ego... but deffo not pillock, numpty or bonehead.
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i would love to see this case come up for retrial.with master john.and master scipio usmc leading the prosecution.they would absolutely batter bambers £1500 a day lawyers.i mean proper rip them apart and make them look like idiots.all their expensive law training would be useless when coming up against the 2 above.
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You can call me anything you want, sherlock... Mystermaster or Mastermyster will suffice and boost my flagging ego... but deffo not pillock, numpty or bonehead.
wouldn't dream of calling you any of the above except the first two. i like and respect you.and your therioes. 8((()*/
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wouldn't dream of calling you any of the above.i like and respect you.and your therioes. 8((()*/
... and I love you too! (http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/emb/t1804.gif)
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It's always been very flimsy that Sheila knew how to chamber, load and accurately fire the rifle, because she went on a shooting party, nine years earlier.
There is nothing saying she was taught how to load and chamber a rifle on this shooting party. Or that she even fired any bullets. If she did fire bullets, it would have been from a rifle already loaded for her.
She was 18 at the time, so doubtful anyone at the shooting party would teach her to load and chamber, or she was interested in learning. If a woman has shown no interest by the time she is 18, things won't change. And they didn't. She probably went along for a bit of fresh air and exercise.
CC said she had no experience of guns. Bamber testified she had 'limited' experience with guns. Which probably meant she fired a water pistol one summer. He couldn't say 'no' experience at court.
Sheila was in a mad rage. AE said she could see Sheila firing off ten bullets of an already loaded gun, but not chambering and re loading. She could barely put sugar into coffee.
very nicely put adam 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Because its not a fact she did not know how to operate and reload the rifle, The women was not stupid.
i would like to give a normal house wife with the same lack of interest in firearms as sheila . the rifle used and ask her to release the magazine and chamber a round.and see how long it would take or if she would ever work out how its done.a member who is familiar with firearms has already said.by looking at a photo of that rifle .that sheila may have figured out how to release the magazine but not how to chamber a round.intelligence would not necessarily help you figure out how to use that rifle.experience with firearms would stand you a better chance. SHE HAD NONE.i bet she didnt even know which way the bullet heads faced when inserting them into the magazine. &%+((£
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there is no evidence what so ever.that she had been shown how to load' fire ;or release the magazine on a semi auto rifle.i doubt she even knew what semi auto meant.i have read a member on here say she kept her finger on the trigger thats the reason 2 shots were fired.and it was either master scipio usmc or master john who explained . that keeping the trigger pressed would not discharge 2 shots.the trigger has to be released and pressed again.
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very nicely put adam 8((()*/ 8@??)(
Thank you.
All of Bamber's excuses to try to prove his innocence have always been unbelievably weak.
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there is no evidence what so ever.that she had been shown how to load' fire ;or release the magazine on a semi auto rifle.i doubt she even knew what semi auto meant.i have read a member on here say she kept her finger on the trigger thats the reason 2 shots were fired.and it was either master scipio usmc or master john who explained . that keeping the trigger pressed would not discharge 2 shots.the trigger has to be released and pressed again.
Full-auto means the weapon will fire until either the trigger is released or the gun runs out of bullets.
Semi-auto results in a single bullet being fired for each trigger pull. It is called semi-auto because the action of pulling the trigger will result in not only a bullet firing but also another bullet will be automatically fed into the chamber and the hammer automatically cocked so that it can be fired again with nothing else required except a pull of the trigger. Experts are taught how to doubeltap the weapon this means to pull the trigger 2 ties in rapid succession so that shots are fired slit seconds apart.
The murder weapon was a semi-auto. Even if it had been a full-auto weapon it would not make it anymore plausible that she or anyone else held the trigger down long enough for 2 bullets to fire in rapid succession. The medical evidence established several seconds passed between the 2 shots. That is too long for a double tap of a semi-auto weapon or a 2 round burst from full auto. In the meantime if a doubletap or burst the wounds would have been fired from the same general location at virtually the same angle. Both shots were fired with the killer in a different position.
Moreover, there is no question at all that after the first shot Sheila put her outer palm/wrist area to her neck resulting in blood running down her arm before the second shot was fired. Quite clearly she could not do this if she were holding the weapon and the killer waited long enough for her arm to be out of the way before firing again.
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Full-auto means the weapon will fire until either the trigger is released or the gun runs out of bullets.
Semi-auto results in a single bullet being fired for each trigger pull. It is called semi-auto because the action of pulling the trigger will result in not only a bullet firing but also another bullet will be automatically fed into the chamber and the hammer automatically cocked so that it can be fired again with nothing else required except a pull of the trigger. Experts are taught how to doubeltap the weapon this means to pull the trigger 2 ties in rapid succession so that shots are fired slit seconds apart.
The murder weapon was a semi-auto. Even if it had been a full-auto weapon it would not make it anymore plausible that she or anyone else held the trigger down long enough for 2 bullets to fire in rapid succession. The medical evidence established several seconds passed between the 2 shots. That is too long for a double tap of a semi-auto weapon or a 2 round burst from full auto. In the meantime if a doubletap or burst the wounds would have been fired from the same general location at virtually the same angle. Both shots were fired with the killer in a different position.
Moreover, there is no question at all that after the first shot Sheila put her outer palm/wrist area to her neck resulting in blood running down her arm before the second shot was fired. Quite clearly she could not do this if she were holding the weapon and the killer waited long enough for her arm to be out of the way before firing again.
excellent 8((()*/ 8@??)( 8@??)(
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Someone as docile as Sheila loading, chambering, going crazy with a rifle, bare footed in a nightie.
What does Neville do ? Rings Jeremy. Can't see it.
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Someone as docile as Sheila loading, chambering, going crazy with a rifle, bare footed in a nightie.
What does Neville do ? Rings Jeremy. Can't see it.
@)(++(*.than fighting with neville and all done without even chipping or breaking her finger nails.not even a spec of nail varnish missing.impossible @)(++(*
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its one thing to know all the facts but quite another to present them clearly and correctly. the masters 'john and scipio usmc' do both beutifully.they have to be respected.so must .myster.adam.puglove.excellent sleuths.all have helped me make my mind up on this case.thanks guys 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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@)(++(*.than fighting with neville and all done without even chipping or breaking her finger nails.not even a spec of nail varnish missing.impossible @)(++(*
The killer bashed Nevill with the rifle more than a dozen times. The killer did so by gripping the stock with one hand and gripping the butt around the narrow portion with the other hand and thrusting the butt into Nevill. Nevill tried to block the blows with his right arm. Nevill's watch was torn off his arm and many bruises left on his arm. Eventually the killer was able to bash his skull in and in the process the stock broke. The stock broke but not her nails? Some people, who are delusional, say long nails like hers are super strong and would not chip while wielding the rifle in such manner but anyone who has seen a woman with long nails swinging a bat or similar object knows that upon striking something hard their nails end up chipped.
Moreover, someone who has used a shovel or similar object knows that it will cause blistering as the handle slides. She had no blister like damage to her hands. The place where the stock broke is the narrow portion where the killer was holding it. The only way the killers hand would not receive any kind of damage during it breaking would be if the killer was wearing gloves which also would account for no blistering. No gloves that she could have been wearing were found at the scene.
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The killer bashed Nevill with the rifle more than a dozen times. The killer did so by gripping the stock with one hand and gripping the butt around the narrow portion with the other hand and thrusting the butt into Nevill. Nevill tried to block the blows with his right arm. Nevill's watch was torn off his arm and many bruises left on his arm. Eventually the killer was able to bash his skull in and in the process the stock broke. The stock broke but not her nails? Some people, who are delusional, say long nails like hers are super strong and would not chip while wielding the rifle in such manner but anyone who has seen a woman with long nails swinging a bat or similar object knows that upon striking something hard their nails end up chipped.
Moreover, someone who has used a shovel or similar object knows that it will cause blistering as the handle slides. She had no blister like damage to her hands. The place where the stock broke is the narrow portion where the killer was holding it. The only way the killers hand would not receive any kind of damage during it breaking would be if the killer was wearing gloves which also would account for no blistering. No gloves that she could have been wearing were found at the scene.
another brilliant observation and explanation by master Scipio usmc 8@??)( 8@??)(
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just seen the clear photo of junes body for the first time.i must say she looks a terrorable mess.how one could do that to a person who bought you up with love and gave you all the best things in life .after your real parents had disowned you is incomprehensible.and all for what bits of paper.greed brings out the worst in everybody 8()(((@#
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just seen the clear photo of junes body for the first time.i must say she looks a terrorable mess.how one could do that to a person who bought you up with love and gave you all the best things in life .after your real parents had disowned you is incomprehensible.and all for what bits of paper.greed brings out the worst in everybody 8()(((@#
Greed was likely the deciding factor and motive but he had issues with his parents. He felt they were controlling his life among other things. That made it easier to kill them. Killing someone you love for money alone is hard to do.
I was brought up with a strong sense of morality and only believe in killing in self-defense/defense of others. On the opposite end there are people totally lacking in respect for life who will kill for a simple insult, to rob $5, for the sport of it just to see what it is like, to join a gang... Most American murders are committed in inner cities by people who have no respect for life at all. Jeremy might not have been as callous as these thugs but killing is horrible period.
I recently learned of a case where a woman poisoned her husbands and when police were getting close she poisoned her daughter and wrote a fake suicide letter for her so her daughter could be blamed for the murders. Luckily she didn't die and computer analysis proved the letter was typed up while the daughter was in school. How could you do that to your own daughter? Some people care only about themselves and will do anything for their own benefit.
Murder by Muslim extremists is particularly pointless. Their end is simply to kill innocents for sport essentially until they can be stopped. That is more scary than people who kill for monetary gain.
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The killer bashed Nevill with the rifle more than a dozen times. The killer did so by gripping the stock with one hand and gripping the butt around the narrow portion with the other hand and thrusting the butt into Nevill. Nevill tried to block the blows with his right arm. Nevill's watch was torn off his arm and many bruises left on his arm. Eventually the killer was able to bash his skull in and in the process the stock broke. The stock broke but not her nails? Some people, who are delusional, say long nails like hers are super strong and would not chip while wielding the rifle in such manner but anyone who has seen a woman with long nails swinging a bat or similar object knows that upon striking something hard their nails end up chipped.
Moreover, someone who has used a shovel or similar object knows that it will cause blistering as the handle slides. She had no blister like damage to her hands. The place where the stock broke is the narrow portion where the killer was holding it. The only way the killers hand would not receive any kind of damage during it breaking would be if the killer was wearing gloves which also would account for no blistering. No gloves that she could have been wearing were found at the scene.
Scipio these are your views. The pathologist Dr Vanezis makes no such claims.
Some people who are delusional regularly watch women with long painted nails swinging a bat. They are called tennis players and some hit balls with a bat at speeds of circa 130 mph
http://www.eurweb.com/2013/08/venus-williams-debuts-purple-hair-in-us-open-win-pics/
Note Venus' long nails complete with polish and nail art. And yes this was all whilst she was playing a competive game of tennis.
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Greed was likely the deciding factor and motive but he had issues with his parents. He felt they were controlling his life among other things. That made it easier to kill them. Killing someone you love for money alone is hard to do.
I was brought up with a strong sense of morality and only believe in killing in self-defense/defense of others. On the opposite end there are people totally lacking in respect for life who will kill for a simple insult, to rob $5, for the sport of it just to see what it is like, to join a gang... Most American murders are committed in inner cities by people who have no respect for life at all. Jeremy might not have been as callous as these thugs but killing is horrible period.
I recently learned of a case where a woman poisoned her husbands and when police were getting close she poisoned her daughter and wrote a fake suicide letter for her so her daughter could be blamed for the murders. Luckily she didn't die and computer analysis proved the letter was typed up while the daughter was in school. How could you do that to your own daughter? Some people care only about themselves and will do anything for their own benefit.
Murder by Muslim extremists is particularly pointless. Their end is simply to kill innocents for sport essentially until they can be stopped. That is more scary than people who kill for monetary gain.
very true 8((()*/
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Scipio these are your views. The pathologist Dr Vanezis makes no such claims.
Some people who are delusional regularly watch women with long painted nails swinging a bat. They are called tennis players and some hit balls with a bat at speeds of circa 130 mph
http://www.eurweb.com/2013/08/venus-williams-debuts-purple-hair-in-us-open-win-pics/
Note Venus' long nails complete with polish and nail art. And yes this was all whilst she was playing a competive game of tennis.
holly why would they break playing tennis.they have the ball in their palm throw it up and smash it with the racket.the ball goes nowhere near they nails unless its a direct hit in which case they will break or chip .in all the years ive watched tennis ive never seen a ball hit some ones hand.when they play a return shot one hand is well out the way the other has a two and half foot long and a foot wide racket in it.they would be very poor tennis players if they hit the ball with their hands.sheila was never in that violent struggle in the kitchen.iam positive a ball hit at 130 mph at a false nail would break or chip it
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holly how do you see that mornings events.just a quick summing up.please &%+((£
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cant help feeling really sad when thinking of neville and june.life dealt them a poor hand.first not being able to have children than adopting one that would go on to kill them.relatively well off when married their biggest wish was to have kids so their lives could be complete.sad story very sad 8(8-))
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cant help feeling really sad when thinking of neville and june.life dealt them a poor hand.first not being able to have children than adopting one that would go on to kill them.relatively well off when married their biggest wish was to have kids so their lives could be complete.sad story very sad 8(8-))
It is, indeed, a sad story, and undoubtedly true. But it's probably not the only story.
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The killer bashed Nevill with the rifle more than a dozen times. The killer did so by gripping the stock with one hand and gripping the butt around the narrow portion with the other hand and thrusting the butt into Nevill. Nevill tried to block the blows with his right arm. Nevill's watch was torn off his arm and many bruises left on his arm. Eventually the killer was able to bash his skull in and in the process the stock broke. The stock broke but not her nails? Some people, who are delusional, say long nails like hers are super strong and would not chip while wielding the rifle in such manner but anyone who has seen a woman with long nails swinging a bat or similar object knows that upon striking something hard their nails end up chipped.
Looking at the crime scene photos there does not seem to be any blood spatter were Neville is. The Aga, The walls and the table seem to have no blood spatter, Only drips and pools under were Neviles head is, The gun from Crime scene photos also seems to clear of any blood I would have though bashing the skull would result in alot of blood. Or does there not have be with blunt force?
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Looking at the crime scene photos there does not seem to be any blood spatter were Neville is. The Aga, The walls and the table seem to have no blood spatter, Only drips and pools under were Neviles head is, The gun from Crime scene photos also seems to clear of any blood I would have though bashing the skull would result in alot of blood. Or does there not have be with blunt force?
he could easily have wiped the rifle and no doubt he did.the police were suspicious that having told them he loaded the magazine and took the rifle out to shoot rabbits .there was only 1 print belonging to bamber on the murder weapon .as for not that much blood around.one of the police officers reported blood splashes on the cabinets in the kitchen &%+((£
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It is, indeed, a sad story, and undoubtedly true. But it's probably not the only story.
what do you mean.april &%+((£
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Looking at the crime scene photos there does not seem to be any blood spatter were Neville is. The Aga, The walls and the table seem to have no blood spatter, Only drips and pools under were Neviles head is, The gun from Crime scene photos also seems to clear of any blood I would have though bashing the skull would result in alot of blood. Or does there not have be with blunt force?
Difficult to tell without high resolution photos. The rifle drawing shows smearing and splashes only on one side, but there may be another drawing of the opposite side with similar staining.
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he could easily have wiped the rifle and no doubt he did.
show evidence
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show evidence
read the report on the rifle.i wont be able to post you the rag he used to wipe it.nor will bamber be able to &%+((£
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to april.never mind telling adam to read up on blue.you your self need [ moderated ] and read the facts on here and not be brainwashed by blue .the so called blue is a site run by and for bamber supporters
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firstly i chose that name as a laugh.i wish i had 5% of the intelligence as the great sherlock h.i was trying to ask you to explain the other story .ive not got a crstal ball like you have .nor am i a mind reader. @)(++(*
But you understand that there are two sides to every story, don't you? So try and imagine that you're a square peg and someone is trying to force you into a round hole because they think it's where you should fit. How uncomfortable will you feel? How painful might it be? They may eventually succeed in jamming you into it, but sadly, by that time you may have become stuck. You still know you don't belong in that hole but there's very little room for manoeuvre.
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to april.never mind telling adam to read up on blue [ moderated ] and read the facts on here and not be brainwashed by blue .the so called blue is a site run by and for bamber supporters
I think you'll find that several here have taken advantage of blue's excellent archive and library as could you when you were there.
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I think you'll find that several here have taken advantage of blue's excellent archive and library as could you when you were there.
[ moderated ] ...as for your wonderful assessment of blue.thats your opinion.we have 2 masters on here that know and can explain this case excellently.why would i ever want to go on blue.i would just ask master Scipio usmc or master john. and know ive been given the facts with evidence to back it up.theres no need to go anywhere else.lets stick to debating.
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But you understand that there are two sides to every story, don't you? So try and imagine that you're a square peg and someone is trying to force you into a round hole because they think it's where you should fit. How uncomfortable will you feel? How painful might it be? They may eventually succeed in jamming you into it, but sadly, by that time you may have become stuck. You still know you don't belong in that hole but there's very little room for manoeuvre.
april.any hole bambers in is of his own making.i agree theres 2 sides to every story but once you work out 1side of a story is a lie .than that only leaves the truth
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[ mderated ] ..as for your wonderful assessment of blue.thats your opinion.we have 2 masters on here that know and can explain this case excellently.why would i ever want to go on blue.i would just ask master Scipio usmc or master john. and know ive been given the facts with evidence to back it up.theres no need to go anywhere else.lets stick to debating.
Before you make accusations, perhaps you should ask those you believe I have ridiculed if they feel themselves to have been ridiculed. Their perception may be other than yours. I think, however much you may revere John and Scipio, it's creepy and sycophantic to constantly prefix them with "Master" but if they don't have a problem with it, my opinion is irrelevant.......................nonetheless, I'm delighted you've found a niche here........................................You were saying how sad it was that the Bambers' hopes of a happy,united family life were so cruelly ended. I agreed, but said it wasn't the whole story
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Members are reminded of the forum rules in respect of other members. Please consider carefully responses made to inappropriate remarks.
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sherlock, could you refer to members by their correct name please.
Sherlock, the above is a gentle reminder that you have been asked to use members' correct names. By way of explaining my post, I used the analogy of a square peg in a round hole to explain how it MIGHT feel to an adopted child. I really don't believe I could have put it more clearly. I would like to point out that if Adam felt himself to have been ridiculed, I'm perfectly certain he'd have been capable of saying so, and I expect it will please him to know that you're supporting him.
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i will ask adam if he felt ridiculed by your remarks.i certainly feel you used my username to ridicule me .i was only asking you to explain.lets keep it to debating.its not creepy at all.i call them master out of respect.also i see them as the formost authority on this case .because their knowledge of the facts is unbeatable.please masters john and scip[io usmc let me know if your offended.i will immediately stop
Calling people master sounds like childish mocking. It hurts you not me I don't give a rat's ass about childish insults. If one calls me a liar or wrong though I a going to defend myself by proving others. I only call people liars or wrong when they are. Hence battering Holly over the head with proof DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings.
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Sherlock, the above is a gentle reminder that you have been asked to use members' correct names. By way of explaining my post, I used the analogy of a square peg in a round hole to explain how it MIGHT feel to an adopted child. I really don't believe I could have put it more clearly. I would like to point out that if Adam felt himself to have been ridiculed, I'm perfectly certain he'd have been capable of saying so, and I expect it will please him to know that you're supporting him.
thats right a gentle reminder.when the forum regulator tells me dont use master before members names or you will be banned.then i will stop.yes i regard adam as a Friend.and fellow supporter of bambers guilt.is it right you should tell him to not post any threads until he has read this or that.he is initialed to his opinion.lets forget it and start talking of the case again
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I'm sure scipio and John appreciate your thanks for their well-reasoned arguments, sherlock, but maybe there would be less criticism and hassle if you referred to them only by their forum names.
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I'm sure scipio and John appreciate your thanks for their well-reasoned arguments, sherlock, but maybe there would be less criticism and hassle if you referred to them only by their forum names.
yes i think thats true myster.will consider it now.i think its just jealous bamber supporters though.they fear by me calling them master. might incourage others to look at the reason why .and find the truth.thanks for the advice though. 8((()*/cant understand why they are so upset
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theory on bambers murder plan.and what could have happened.the night before the murders bamber took the rifle loaded it and hid it in the scullery.after that he hid the bedroom phone and left at 10pm .as he entered the farm from the widow he immediately took the rifle and hid the kitchen phone.than crept to his parents bedroom.but the dog sensed a presence and started barking neville and june were awake when bamber burst in firing.june was a sitting target but neville was up probably stood by his side of the bed when receiving his shots.there is no doubt June would have been screaming and while bomber tryed to Finnish her to stop the screaming Neville barged past him heading for kitchen the only reason he made it past bomber was because of brave Junes screams.he identified Junes screaming as more of a threat than his wounded father who with the non fatal shots could not make a sound because of the lip and jaw shots he received.when Neville reached the kitchen there was no phone it had already been hidden plus bamber was on him to quick.bamber fought with brave father and mercilessly beat him unconscious.he may have been wearing a wet suit . he took more bullets out of the shotgun cartridge carrier he was wearing .which the raid team member saw hanging up in the stairway leading from kitchen.and shot neville 4 times every one of these last 4 head shots would have immediately fatal .he than went upstairs with a full magazine to deal with the most important person in his plan.you see for his whole plan to work his sister could not be beaten or shot any other place on her body except the suicide shot head or neck.there for sheila was fast asleep under medication in her bedroom.he could not have her awake and disobeying or screaming or trying to escape because he would not have been able to make the suicide shot to stop. her as with junes case several shots.he shot Sheila while she slept once in the bed than immediately picked her up in both arms tucked her head down and to the right holding her tight so no blood could drip down it would only drip on her and not the floor.he then carried her to the main bedroom and placed her over or near the droplet's of blood from neville were.while placing her down he could sense she was still alive .he had no choice but to shoot her again.he did not want anyone to know neville was shot upstairs.after that he shot the twins as he probably predicted they were fast asleep.he than began to stage the scene he put the rifle in place moved a bible in place .placed a box ammo on the side and replaced the phone .he did not phone home from whitehouse farm.because having paid his own telephone bill in the past he would have known the police would not be able to prove if the call was made or not.he then wiped himself down with a teeshirt or something similar and than left the house via the self catching latch window.what he bought to the house that morning or what he took away no one knows.
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I thought you said a guy called Sweeney was responsible for the murders?
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yes i think thats true myster.will consider it now.i think its just jealous bamber supporters though.they fear by me calling them master. might incourage others to look at the reason why .and find the truth.thanks for the advice though. 8((()*/cant understand why they are so upset
Sherlock, I'm not certain where you're getting your information from, but I can assure you that there are FAR less on blue who think Jeremy is innocent, that there are who believe him to be guilty. I fail to see who are these jealous supporters you speak of because they're not here. I don't think you'll find any who are upset, other than by Jeremy still being in prison. Perhaps there's a little of Adam's influence in what you say.
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I thought you said a guy called Sweeney was responsible for the murders?
i am wrong most of my theory has gone down the toilet pan. 8(8-)).except bambers guilt .i dont mind though because ive learnt the facts and reinforced my belief of bambers guilt.i cant see where i have mentioned anyone called Sweeney .caroline &%+((£
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Sherlock, I'm not certain where you're getting your information from, but I can assure you that there are FAR less on blue who think Jeremy is innocent, that there are who believe him to be guilty. I fail to see who are these jealous supporters you speak of because they're not here. I don't think you'll find any who are upset, other than by Jeremy still being in prison. Perhaps there's a little of Adam's influence in what you say.
if you think bambers spys and supporters of bamber have not joined this forum.than your very nieve.what is the goal of that site .who set it up.lets just get back to the case.oh and because of your insulating comment earlier ive changed my username to rotti.i dont need people like you scoring brownie points on the name sherlock
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if you think bambers spys and supporters of bamber have not joined this forum.than your very nieve.what is the goal of that site .who set it up.lets just get back to the case.oh and because of your insulating comment earlier ive changed my username to rotti.i dont need people like you scoring brownie points on the name sherlock
D'ya know? I have absolutely NO idea what you're trying to say. Your choice of name was clearly not right if you took offence at the suggestion that -because of it, you did some detective work. I have no understanding of why you thought it was insulting and point scoring.
To the best of my knowledge, this forum, like blue, is open to all comers. A difference of opinion is good for debate. Were you not originally a member of blue for a short time? The name is a memorable one, you see.
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if you think bambers spys and supporters of bamber have not joined this forum.than your very nieve.what is the goal of that site .who set it up.lets just get back to the case.oh and because of your insulating comment earlier ive changed my username to rotti.i dont need people like you scoring brownie points on the name sherlock
There are some supporters who inform him of various things - so what? He knows a lot of people think he's guilty and are hardly going to speak well of him. The goal of BOTH sites, is to debate the case - there is no underlying sinister agenda. Apart from a bit of sniping back and forth, most of us come here because we're interested in the case. Isn't that why you came here?
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I thought you said a guy called Sweeney was responsible for the murders?
Yes he did, based on Sweeneys painting lol
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Yes he did, based on Sweeneys painting lol
Ha, ha! You remember @)(++(* @)(++(*
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Can I ask that posters stick to topic please.
TY.
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Aye aye throwing your weight around already! @)(++(*
I should leave them as a fitting epitaph to rotti-sherlock.
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Aye aye throwing your weight around already! @)(++(*
I should leave them as a fitting epitaph to rotti-sherlock.
I need to be consistent ?>)()<
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Can I ask that posters stick to topic please.
TY.
Steady, Holl. The world doesn't need another Gladys. 8(8-))
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Steady, Holl. The world doesn't need another Gladys. 8(8-))
If I was Gladys I'd have banned Scipio by now @)(++(* I haven't even edited the torrent of verbal I have sustained in this thread:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg293857#msg293857
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Steady, Holl. The world doesn't need another Gladys. 8(8-))
Are you sure about that phone number? When I rang, a woman called Hu Ting Ling answered and asked if I wanted a full body or a Thai special.
Seems rotti grew sick of his grandchildren and resurfaced as sami. I thought forums weren't his thing? &%+((£