UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on December 15, 2015, 07:14:34 PM
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There's no evidence of NB's blood in the main bedroom or casings his side of the bedroom other than the two attributable to SC. Dr Vanezis states the trajectory of the two facial shots were both 20 degrees below the horizontal. NB was taller than JB and SC.
The trajectory of the shoulder and elbow shots were also both downwards.
My theory is that the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June. As NB approached the main bedroom he was shot twice on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the bedroom in the lip and jaw. Casings 3 and 4 pertain to these shots. The perp was stood at the entrance with the barrel extending onto the landing but the ejection port just inside the door. NB then turned and fled down the stairs with the perp behind him. The perp then shot NB in the shoulder and elbow on the main staircase. Casings 13 and 14 pertain to these shots. The perp was parallel with the main bedroom door and the ejection port ejected cartridge 13 onto the transition plate of the main bedroom door. The ejection port ejected cartridge 14 to a similar location but it rolled down the stairs and landed a little way down the landing.
Two diagrams which may, or may not, support your understanding ?>)()<
Other docs and SoC photos supporting the above will be posted shortly.
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There's no evidence of NB's blood in the main bedroom or casings his side of the bedroom other than the two attributable to SC. Dr Vanezis states the trajectory of the two facial shots were both 20 degrees below the horizontal. NB was taller than JB and SC.
The trajectory of the shoulder and elbow shots were also both downwards.
My theory is that the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June. As NB approached the main bedroom he was shot twice on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the bedroom in the lip and jaw. Casings 3 and 4 are attributable to these shots. The perp was stood at the entrance with the barrel extending onto the landing but the ejection port just inside the door. NB then turned and fled down the stairs with the perp behind him. The perp then shot NB in the shoulder and elbow on the main staircase. Casings 13 and 14 are attributable to these shots. The perp was parallel with the main bedroom door and the ejection port ejected cartridge 13 onto the transition plate of the main bedroom door. The ejection port ejected cartridge 14 to a similar location but it rolled down the stairs and landed a little way down the landing.
Two diagrams which may, or may not, support your understanding ?>)()<
Other docs and SoC photos supporting the above will be posted shortly.
holly were the droplets of blood near sheila and on the blue socks ever analyzed
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Carpet samples were taken and blood on them when analysed was found to be June's, not Nevill's... so I understand.
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Carpet samples were taken and blood on them when analysed was found to be June's, not Nevill's... so I understand.
that is very puzzling
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Carpet samples were taken and blood on them when analysed was found to be June's, not Nevill's... so I understand.
if its true .my theory of bamber placing her there to cover signs of nevilles blood 'goes down the toilet pan 8()(((@# 8)><(
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if its true .my theory of bamber placing her there to cover signs of nevilles blood 'goes down the toilet pan 8()(((@# 8)><(
What made you think that in the first place? Theories like this require Jeremy to so forensically aware he would have done a much better Job and the crime suggests otherwise.
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What made you think that in the first place? Theories like this require Jeremy to so forensically aware he would have done a much better Job and the crime suggests otherwise.
i thought he did that to cover nevilles blood.and the fact that he didnt want police to work out why after receiving his shots he never tacked sheila in the bedroom.did they test every droplet of blood found near sheila or just one or two from a piece of carpet which may have contained many droplets.i cant understand why junes blood would be in that corner.if she walked there and than walked back to die by the door.she would have blood on her feet .also may have touched the bedframe with her bloody hand.was she found with any blood on hands or feet.junes that is.those bungling cops have made sure there will always be an element of doubt.which bambers supporter can expolit
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if its true .my theory of bamber placing her there to cover signs of nevilles blood 'goes down the toilet pan 8()(((@# 8)><(
Had NB bled in the main bedroom and JB attempted to pass it off by placing SC on top I'm pretty certain it would be obvious from the blood trails/patterns from the different wounds that something was amiss.
The only blood found in the bedroom: bed, carpet, socks belonged to June.
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Had NB bled in the main bedroom and JB attempted to pass it off by placing SC on top I'm pretty certain it would be obvious from the blood trails/patterns from the different wounds that something was amiss.
The only blood found in the bedroom: bed, carpet, socks belonged to June.
holly have you any photos of the whole of that carpet in the masterbedroom.one that show all of the carpet in one photo .with out that you havent got the full picture of any blood trails.are you telling me they checked every droplet of blood from that room.because thats the only way i will accept your claim that it was all junes blood.if you or any got a photo showing both bodies in situe and the whole of the carpet in the same photo please show it
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i though he did that to cover nevilles blood.and the fact that he didnt want police to work out why after receiving his shots he never tacked sheila in the bedroom.did they test every droplet of blood found near sheila or just one or two from a piece of carpet which may have contained many droplets.i cant understand why junes blood would be in that corner.if she walked there and than walked back to die by the door.she would have blood on her feet .also may have touched the bedframe with her bloody hand.was she found with any blood on hands or feet.junes that is.those bungling cops have made sure there will always be an element of doubt.]which bambers supporter can expolit
There's no need for anyone who believes JB is the victim of a MoJ to exploit anything. The truth stares you in the face.
If NB was shot in the main bedroom how do you account for the trajectory of the wounds he received upstairs which were all downwards? NB was taller than SC and JB which would mean the perp would need to raise the rifle so the stock was above his/her head or stand on something. The only alternative is if NB was lower than the perp and this can only be accounted by NB being on the stairs and the location of the casings are testament to this.
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There's no need for anyone who believes JB is the victim of a MoJ to exploit anything. The truth stares you in the face.
If NB was shot in the main bedroom how do you account for the trajectory of the wounds he received upstairs which were all downwards? NB was taller than SC and JB which would mean the perp would need to raise the rifle so the stock was above his/her head or stand on something. The only alternative is if NB was lower than the perp and this can only be accounted by NB being on the stairs and the location of the casings are testament to this.
Or Neville got out of Bed then fell on the floor, or the perpetrator stood on the bed
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There's no evidence of NB's blood in the main bedroom or casings his side of the bedroom other than the two attributable to SC. Dr Vanezis states the trajectory of the two facial shots were both 20 degrees below the horizontal. NB was taller than JB and SC.
The trajectory of the shoulder and elbow shots were also both downwards.
My theory is that the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June. As NB approached the main bedroom he was shot twice on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the bedroom in the lip and jaw. Casings 3 and 4 are attributable to these shots. The perp was stood at the entrance with the barrel extending onto the landing but the ejection port just inside the door. NB then turned and fled down the stairs with the perp behind him. The perp then shot NB in the shoulder and elbow on the main staircase. Casings 13 and 14 are attributable to these shots. The perp was parallel with the main bedroom door and the ejection port ejected cartridge 13 onto the transition plate of the main bedroom door. The ejection port ejected cartridge 14 to a similar location but it rolled down the stairs and landed a little way down the landing.
Two diagrams which may, or may not, support your understanding ?>)()<
Other docs and SoC photos supporting the above will be posted shortly.
The bullet casing were ejected out of the rifle towards the direction of June indicating the rifle was pointing towards the far side of the bedroom and the direction Nevill would have come from after getting out of bed. Blood spotting was found on the carpet at the end of the bed which could only have come from Nevill's initial wounds since June never made it that far and Sheila never moved after being shot twice in the neck. If the trajectory of the shots were downward then Nevill clearly put his head down and ran towards his assailant. Thus why he was able to get out of the room and down the stairs evidenced by the blood stains on the wallpaper halfway down.
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Or Neville got out of Bed then fell on the floor, or the perpetrator stood on the bed
Yes but that wouldn't fit with the casings 8(0(*
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There's no need for anyone who believes JB is the victim of a MoJ to exploit anything. The truth stares you in the face.
If NB was shot in the main bedroom how do you account for the trajectory of the wounds he received upstairs which were all downwards? NB was taller than SC and JB which would mean the perp would need to raise the rifle so the stock was above his/her head or stand on something. The only alternative is if NB was lower than the perp and this can only be accounted by NB being on the stairs and the location of the casings are testament to this.
easily neville was in bed and bamber standing over him.SHOW me the photo i asked for .or a lab report that that every drop of blood found in the masterbedroom belonged to june
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Yes but that wouldn't fit with the casings 8(0(*
Yes it would. Nevile could have fallen near the door way like triping over june
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There's no evidence of NB's blood in the main bedroom or casings his side of the bedroom other than the two attributable to SC. Dr Vanezis states the trajectory of the two facial shots were both 20 degrees below the horizontal. NB was taller than JB and SC.
The trajectory of the shoulder and elbow shots were also both downwards.
My theory is that the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June. As NB approached the main bedroom he was shot twice on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the bedroom in the lip and jaw. Casings 3 and 4 are attributable to these shots. The perp was stood at the entrance with the barrel extending onto the landing but the ejection port just inside the door. NB then turned and fled down the stairs with the perp behind him. The perp then shot NB in the shoulder and elbow on the main staircase. Casings 13 and 14 are attributable to these shots. The perp was parallel with the main bedroom door and the ejection port ejected cartridge 13 onto the transition plate of the main bedroom door. The ejection port ejected cartridge 14 to a similar location but it rolled down the stairs and landed a little way down the landing.
Two diagrams which may, or may not, support your understanding ?>)()<
Other docs and SoC photos supporting the above will be posted shortly.
You are just as much of a broken record as Mike. You post the same nonsense in 50 threads.
Each time you post the same nonsense you are going to get the same response.
1) Nevill's shots were to his left profile. Nevill was not facing his killer when shot nor was his back to the killer his left profile was to the killer.
2) One bullet grazed Nevill from left to right across his body. That bullet was found in the master bedroom not the hall or any other room.
3) If the killer were shooting out the door then the casings would have been near the window because the window would be to the right side where the shells were ejected. The fact the shells were ejected onto the bed and near June's side of the bed means the ejection port was where June slept which means the killer was shooting at Nevill's side of the bed.
Your half baked ideas fell apart long ago. You can keep spouting them all you like but they are total nonsense thus you will not find a single expert to support such. You made it up yourself without any expertise at all and with a total disregard for the evidence.
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The bullet casing were ejected out of the rifle towards the direction of June indicating the rifle was pointing towards the far side of the bedroom and the direction Nevill would have come from after getting out of bed. Blood spotting was found on the carpet at the end of the bed which could only have come from Nevill's initial wounds.
All I can say is that none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom by SoC officers/FSS. Of course that doesn't mean to say that there definitely wasn't any. 5 carpet samples were analysed along with the blue socks and all bedding. As I said to sherlock the trajectories of the wounds sustained upstairs: lip, jaw, shoulder and elbow were all downwards. NB was taller than SC and JB.
Have you see my diagrams John in post #1? 8)><( What do you think? It seems plausible to me?
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holly have you any photos of the whole of that carpet in the masterbedroom.one that show all of the carpet in one photo .with out that you havent got the full picture of any blood trails.are you telling me they checked every droplet of blood from that room.because thats the only way i will accept your claim that it was all junes blood.if you or any got a photo showing both bodies in situe and the whole of the carpet in the same photo please show it
I agree, since June never reached the end of the bed, her blood could only have reached there by secondary transfer.
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There's no need for anyone who believes JB is the victim of a MoJ to exploit anything. The truth stares you in the face.
If NB was shot in the main bedroom how do you account for the trajectory of the wounds he received upstairs which were all downwards? NB was taller than SC and JB which would mean the perp would need to raise the rifle so the stock was above his/her head or stand on something. The only alternative is if NB was lower than the perp and this can only be accounted by NB being on the stairs and the location of the casings are testament to this.
A sentient being recognizes that this means the shot to Nevill's shoulder and jaw were delivered while Nevill was not fully upright or much less likely Jeremy was standing on a chair or the like to fire.
A sentient being would not pretend that such shots were fired while Nevill was on the stairs because a sentient being would recognize it is impossible for shots to be fired at Nevill's left profile while he was on the stairs. A sentient being would also recognize it is impossible to fire at someone on the stairs from the master bedroom.
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All I can say is that none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom by SoC officers/FSS. Of course that doesn't mean to say that there definitely wasn't any. 5 carpet samples were analysed along with the blue socks and all bedding. As I said to sherlock the trajectories of the wounds sustained upstairs: lip, jaw, shoulder and elbow were all downwards. NB was taller than SC and JB.
Have you see my diagrams John in post #1? 8)><( What do you think? It seems plausible to me?
I saw them but I will have another look. Bottom line though is the location of the empty casings indicates that shots fired at June and Nevill were fired by someone holding a rifle just inside the master bedroom door. Had Nevill been shot by someone standing just outside the door on the landing, the casings would have ended up on the landing/stairs.
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All I can say is that none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom by SoC officers/FSS. Of course that doesn't mean to say that there definitely wasn't any. 5 carpet samples were analysed along with the blue socks and all bedding. As I said to sherlock the trajectories of the wounds sustained upstairs: lip, jaw, shoulder and elbow were all downwards. NB was taller than SC and JB.
Have you see my diagrams John in post #1? 8)><( What do you think? It seems plausible to me?
For the 100th time:
1) They didn't test all the blood in the room so NO ONE has any way to know whether any of Nevill's blood was in the bedroom.
2) Nevill's wounds were such that he may not have leaked any blood in the bedroom.
You keep making up that he would have to leak blood in there if he were shot there and ignoring his blood may have been there among the considerable amount of blood that was never tested.
SO you MAKE UP tha this blood would have to be there and wasn't so it means he can't have been shot there though this is complete nonsense and thus NOT A SINGLE defense expert supports it.
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Let's face it, the police made a pig's ear of collecting enough blood samples off the floor, because according to this drawing only two pieces of carpet were cut away, and Nevill's blood might have been in the areas they missed and later burned.
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I don't think there is any mileage in your theory Holly, it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
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A sentient being recognizes that this means the shot to Nevill's shoulder and jaw were delivered while Nevill was not fully upright or much less likely Jeremy was standing on a chair or the like to fire.
A sentient being would not pretend that such shots were fired while Nevill was on the stairs because a sentient being would recognize it is impossible for shots to be fired at Nevill's left profile while he was on the stairs. A sentient being would also recognize it is impossible to fire at someone on the stairs from the master bedroom.
and thats why scipio usmc is the master.excellent summary master 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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You are just as much of a broken record as Mike. You post the same nonsense in 50 threads.
Each time you post the same nonsense you are going to get the same response.
1) Nevill's shots were to his left profile. Nevill was not facing his killer when shot nor was his back to the killer his left profile was to the killer.
2) One bullet grazed Nevill from left to right across his body. That bullet was found in the master bedroom not the hall or any other room.
3) If the killer were shooting out the door then the casings would have been near the window because the window would be to the right side where the shells were ejected. The fact the shells were ejected onto the bed and near June's side of the bed means the ejection port was where June slept which means the killer was shooting at Nevill's side of the bed.
Your half baked ideas fell apart long ago. You can keep spouting them all you like but they are total nonsense thus you will not find a single expert to support such. You made it up yourself without any expertise at all and with a total disregard for the evidence.
The gunshot wounds NB sustained to his lip and jaw were not to his left profile:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5885
The autopsy reports confirms this too:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676
NB was taller than SC and JB how do you account for the downward trajectory of these wounds?
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A reminder guys to keep posts convivial. TY
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The gunshot wounds NB sustained to his lip and jaw were not to his left profile:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5885
The autopsy reports confirms this too:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676
NB was taller than SC and JB how do you account for the downward trajectory of these wounds?
I believe Scipio means Nevill's left side as per your diag.
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Let's face it, the police made a pig's ear of collecting enough blood samples off the floor, because according to this drawing only two pieces of carpet were cut away, and Nevill's blood might have been in the areas they missed and later burned.
Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds. My theory is plausible for all three.
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I don't think there is any mileage in your theory Holly, it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
good point master john.holly you've awoken 2 of the 3 masters Scipio USMC. and John.they will answer your every point with facts.not fiction 8((()*/
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Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds. My theory is plausible for all three.
Holly, with respect, the location of the empty casings renders your theory impossible.
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A sentient being recognizes that this means the shot to Nevill's shoulder and jaw were delivered while Nevill was not fully upright or much less likely Jeremy was standing on a chair or the like to fire.
A sentient being would not pretend that such shots were fired while Nevill was on the stairs because a sentient being would recognize it is impossible for shots to be fired at Nevill's left profile while he was on the stairs. A sentient being would also recognize it is impossible to fire at someone on the stairs from the master bedroom.
So your scenario now needs JB firing shots standing on a chair? The trajectories of the facial shots were only 20 degrees below the horizontal.
It's not impossible for the shots to have been fired at NB while he was on the two stairs immediately preceding the main bedroom:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947
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I agree, since June never reached the end of the bed, her blood could only have reached there by secondary transfer.
It is thought June walked round the bed to use the phone and back again, not my thought btw, but certainly explains her blood NB's side of the bed.
How would June's blood get on NB's side by secondary transfer?
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Do people understand what a left profile is?
This is Nevill's left profile this is what was facing the killer when the killer shot at Nevill:
(http://s18.postimg.org/3zzqlf7zd/nevillleftprofile.jpg)
The lines are not showing the angle of the shots just pointing to the shots to number them. The trajectory of the shot to his arm and jaw were downward but not as downward as in the lines so disregard them.
Obviously if Nevill were walking past the master bedroom door towards the stairs, thus had his left profile facing the door, then he would be fully upright. Jeremy would have to be standing on the bed or something else in order to deliver such shots.
Since the jaw and lip shots were also to the left profile not fired head on this means Nevill would have to have been walking buy with his face looking at the stairs instead of inside the room as he was shot. That would be rather strange to not look in and just run down the stairs. Worse yet if he were shot near the doorway then ran down the stairs his blood should not have been found in the hall near Sheila's door to be found there he would have to have turned around after being shot and running to her door instead of going down the stairs.
If he was shot in the hall then the bullet that grazed his body would have been found in the hall it would not magically turn around and fly back in the bedroom.
In the meantime if the killer were shooting out the door then the casings would have been in the corner of the wall that had the window. But no casings were found there. The casings were all to the the opposite side which is where they land when shooting at people who are in the bed.
(http://s22.postimg.org/hf5zncpkx/bedroomtrajectory.jpg)
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Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds. My theory is plausible for all three.
Your whole "Landing" theory is based on Nevill coming upstairs AFTER phoning his son. There is no way that could have happened because as soon as Nevill heard shots and/or screams if he was in the kitchen sat in his favourite chair reading "Farmers Guardian", his first instinct would be investigate what was happening and if Sheila had hold of a weapon, disarm her. Not waste precious time on a rotary dial phone waiting for his son to answer. It defies common sense!
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Holly, with respect, the location of the empty casings renders your theory impossible.
Why?
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So your scenario now needs JB firing shots standing on a chair? The trajectories of the facial shots were only 20 degrees below the horizontal.
It's not impossible for the shots to have been fired at NB while he was on the two stairs immediately preceding the main bedroom:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947
not at all .neville may have been sitting upright.and lifted his arm up and head down while the gun was aimed at him 3 seconds.when the gun was pointed at sheila neville fled to the kitchen.
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good point master john.holly you've awoken 2 of the 3 masters Scipio USMC. and John.they will answer your every point with facts.not fiction 8((()*/
sherlock, masters Scipio USMC and John are no more qualified to offer opinion than you or I . Plenty of folk read these forums so if there's any mileage in my theory it will be seized on and developed to its full potential by those who are qualified 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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So your scenario now needs JB firing shots standing on a chair? The trajectories of the facial shots were only 20 degrees below the horizontal.
It's not impossible for the shots to have been fired at NB while he was on the two stairs immediately preceding the main bedroom:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947
This is a perfect illustration of how you ignore things not to your liking in order to come up with made up BS.
Scipio: Nevill was seated in bed or on the bed when shot. The only other way for the shots to be achieved while Neivll was fully upright would be for the killer to stand on a chair or something which is unlikely.
Holly's interpretation of the above:
"Jeremy was standing on a chair when Nevill was shot"
You distorted what I wrote in order to try to pretend your preferred nonsense is credible and that is exactly what you do with every aspect of this case. You distort ever aspect from pretending Nevill's blood would have to be int he bedroom and pretending they tested all the blood so know it wasn't to falsely claiming 22LR bullets will not result in drawback.
Pretense makes you look foolish, dishonest and incompetent. That doesn't help your cause it DETRACTS from it.
It's impossible for Nevill to have been shot while on the stairs. The only way to target him while on the stairs is to fire at his back. The shots were not to his back they were to his left side. If shooting at him on the stairs then the casings would be in the hall in fact they would go down the stairs most likely.
You just keep embarrassing yourself.
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not at all .neville may have been sitting upright.and lifted his arm up and head down while the gun was aimed at him 3 seconds.when the gun was pointed at sheila neville fled to the kitchen.
If NB's head was down the perp would be need to be underneath him to shoot at his lip and jaw and the trajectory would be upwards.
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good point master john.holly you've awoken 2 of the 3 masters Scipio USMC. and John.they will answer your every point with facts.not fiction 8((()*/
You forgot Master Bates.... still asleep, but he'll come at the climax of this debate.
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sherlock, masters Scipio USMC and John are no more qualified to offer opinion than you or I . Plenty of folk read these forums so if there's any mileage in my theory it will be seized on and developed to its full potential by those who are qualified 8((()*/ 8@??)(
1) I could qualify as a weapons expert based on my training. I have more expertise than the average person which is all that is required to be considered an expert.
2) The experts in this case assessed the casings among other evidence indicates the shots had to have been fired from the foot of the bed to the doorway with the gun aiming INSIDE the room.
3) The experts assessed the trajectory of the wounds being to Neivll's left profile
4) All one needs is half a brain to know that it is impossible for the left profile to be targeted if someone is on the stairs with their left side facing a wall.
5) All one needs is half a brain to know that it someone is looking at your back they can't shoot your left profile.
6) All one needs is to not be blind to see the ejection port is on the right side of the gun and understand this means the casings are ejected to the right.
7) All one needs is half a brain to recognize that if the gun were aimed at the doorway that the wall with the window would be to the right of the weapon.
8) All one needs is the ability to know how to read to know that not a single casing was found near that wall where the casings would have been if the gun were aimed out the door.
Your claims have been thoroughly refuted and been shown to be totally unsupportable.
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You forgot Master Bates.... still asleep, but he'll come at the climax of this debate.
Leaving Seaman Staines behind for puglove to take in hand @)(++(*
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Your whole "Landing" theory is based on Nevill coming upstairs AFTER phoning his son. There is no way that could have happened because as soon as Nevill heard shots and/or screams if he was in the kitchen sat in his favourite chair reading "Farmers Guardian", his first instinct would be investigate what was happening and if Sheila had hold of a weapon, disarm her. Not waste precious time on a rotary dial phone waiting for his son to answer. It defies common sense!
he might well have gone to the back office to arm himself.had he been downstairs
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sherlock, masters Scipio USMC and John are no more qualified to offer opinion than you or I . Plenty of folk read these forums so if there's any mileage in my theory it will be seized on and developed to its full potential by those who are qualified 8((()*/ 8@??)(
i disagree holly the the 3 masters Scipio usmc.John and Admin.have more combined knowledge on the case than all the other members put together .thats my honest and personal opinion.why dont you join us holly.in the guilty camp
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Even if I wanted to be a Bamber supporter or were hired to support Bamber I would have to face certain realities.
One such reality is that the killer stood somewhere in the shaded area when firing the shots at the victims either in the bed or near the bed. As my addition illustrates the casings would be elsewhere if aiming out the door.
(http://s22.postimg.org/hf5zncpkx/bedroomtrajectory.jpg)
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Why?
I give up seriously %#£%
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sherlock, masters Scipio USMC and John are no more qualified to offer opinion than you or I . Plenty of folk read these forums so if there's any mileage in my theory it will be seized on and developed to its full potential by those who are qualified 8((()*/ 8@??)(
I beg to differ Holly, I am firearms qualified as is Scipio
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Even if I wanted to be a Bamber supporter or were hired to support Bamber I would have to face certain realities.
One such reality is that the killer stood somewhere in the shaded area when firing the shots at the victims either in the bed or near the bed. As my addition illustrates the casings would be elsewhere if aiming out the door.
(http://s22.postimg.org/hf5zncpkx/bedroomtrajectory.jpg)
Holly take note.. Shooter was stood in the Shaded Area.
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i disagree holly the the 3 masters Scipio usmc.John and Admin.have more combined knowledge on the case than all the other members put together .thats my honest and personal opinion.why dont you join us holly.in the guilty camp
Do any of us meet the criteria for expert witness in the courts? As far as I'm aware no. We all contribute and have different strengths and weaknesses. You seem to think the masters are those who share your theories sherlock. The real masters or mistresses are those whose theories closely align with expert witnesses who either maintain/uphold JB's conviction or overturn it. Exciting times 8(0(*
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Holly take note.. Shooter was stood in the Shaded Area.
Anywhere in the shaded area with the gun pointed inside the room towards any area of the bed.
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Do any of us meet the criteria for expert witness in the courts? As far as I'm aware no. We all contribute and have different strengths and weaknesses. You seem to think the masters are those who share your theories sherlock. The real masters or mistresses are those whose theories closely align with expert witnesses who either maintain/uphold JB's conviction or overturn it. Exciting times 8(0(*
An expert witness must have more knowledge than the average person. I have such knowledge with respect to several subjects including firearms. I have had extensive training in firearms. The experts in this very case though agree the shots could only have been fired int he shaded areas and with the gun aimed in the direction of the bed.
Quite obviously if June were on her back then the only way to target her right side would be standing at the foot of the bed in the shaded area that is most extreme to the left. Standing in the doorway would not permit targeting her right side if she were on her back. So we can narrow things down further on such basis.
Ignoring all this and simply making up that the shooter could have been firing into the hall is a complete waste of time. The experts in the case rejected such long ago for the reasons already cited.
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I beg to differ Holly, I am firearms qualified as is Scipio
But we're not talking about firearms per se are we? We're talking about cartridge ejection patterns, blood at SoC and trajectories.
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Holly take note.. Shooter was stood in the Shaded Area.
I have taken note and my theory fits with the shooter stood in this area for the lip and jaw shots.
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Do any of us meet the criteria for expert witness in the courts? As far as I'm aware no. We all contribute and have different strengths and weaknesses. You seem to think the masters are those who share your theories sherlock. The real masters or mistresses are those whose theories closely align with expert witnesses who either maintain/uphold JB's conviction or overturn it. Exciting times 8(0(*
not at all holly .iam sure i might have opinions which conflict with the Masters on other cases .but not this one.the 3 masters are humble people .that dont blow their own trumpets.so i feel i should blow it for them.they analyse this case with the cunning and intelligents of a police officer or csi officer.their knowledge on the case is unrivaled long live the masters
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not at all holly .iam sure i might have opinions which conflict with the Masters on other cases .but not this one.the 3 masters are humble people .that dont blow their own trumpets.so i feel i should blow it for them.they analyse this case with the cunning and intelligents of a police officer or csi officer.their knowledge on the case is unrivaled long live the masters
Aw shucks sherlock, I haven't got a trumpet but *&(+(+ anyway.
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An expert witness must have more knowledge than the average person. I have such knowledge with respect to several subjects including firearms. I have had extensive training in firearms. The experts in this very case though agree the shots could only have been fired int he shaded areas and with the gun aimed in the direction of the bed.
Quite obviously if June were on her back then the only way to target her right side would be standing at the foot of the bed in the shaded area that is most extreme to the left. Standing in the doorway would not permit targeting her right side if she were on her back. So we can narrow things down further on such basis.
Ignoring all this and simply making up that the shooter could have been firing into the hall is a complete waste of time. The experts in the case rejected such long ago for the reasons already cited.
I TOTALLY diagree my theory is entirely plausible and accounts for:
- None of NB's blood found in the main bedroom
- Casing location
- Trajectories of wounds
My post #1 in this thread is by far the best post I have made to date on Blue or Red and is potentially a real game changer.
NB's location on the stairs immediately preceding the main bedroom will be proven by taking the difference in height between NB and SC, the depth of the step and trajectories of wounds.
Who drew the sketch of the main bedroom showing location of casings?
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Aw shucks sherlock, I haven't got a trumpet but *&(+(+ anyway.
just a phrase master Jhon 8((()*/
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But we're not talking about firearms per se are we? We're talking about cartridge ejection patterns, blood at SoC and trajectories.
I don't need to test fire an Anshutz to know I ejects to the right. I can see with my own two eyes the weapon and have seen videos of the shells being ejected. I know base don such that the shells are not ejected to the left.
I know the experts FROM THIS CASE assessed the shooter could only have stood in the shaded area and could only have aimed the weapon in the direction of the bed. The gun had to be aimed with the victim in bed or next to the bed.
You disregard such and just keep making up it is possible for the shooter to have been shooting into the hall. You want to pretend Nevill was sideways on the stairs being shot at though the gun was aimed inside the room and it would make no sense to be sideways on the stairs.
There is good reason the defense didn't try raising any such claims- it is nonsense.
Make up the victims were anywhere next to the bed you want trying to explain where the shooter stood and the victim was by the bed or in the bed. That is the most one can do. The killer was shooting at people in/on the bed or next to the bed with the exception of the shot fired when June was in the doorway.
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not at all holly .iam sure i might have opinions which conflict with the Masters on other cases .but not this one.the 3 masters are humble people .that dont blow their own trumpets.so i feel i should blow it for them.they analyse this case with the cunning and intelligents of a police officer or csi officer.their knowledge on the case is unrivaled long live the masters
Oh yes I forgot you're right Scipio is very unassuming!
Can we please just stick to debating the case. As I said everyone makes a contribution and has strengths and weaknesses based on their various life experiences, careers, education etc.
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I don't need to test fire an Anshutz to know I ejects to the right. I can see with my own two eyes the weapon and have seen videos of the shells being ejected. I know base don such that the shells are not ejected to the left.
I know the experts FROM THIS CASE assessed the shooter could only have stood in the shaded area and could only have aimed the weapon in the direction of the bed. The gun had to be aimed with the victim in bed or next to the bed.
You disregard such and just keep making up it is possible for the shooter to have been shooting into the hall. You want to pretend Nevill was sideways on the stairs being shot at though the gun was aimed inside the room and it would make no sense to be sideways on the stairs.
There is good reason the defense didn't try raising any such claims- it is nonsense.
Make up the victims were anywhere next to the bed you want trying to explain where the shooter stood and the victim was by the bed or in the bed. That is the most one can do. The killer was shooting at people in/on the bed or next to the bed with the exception of the shot fired when June was in the doorway.
another excellent point master scipio.more of the same please 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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I don't need to test fire an Anshutz to know I ejects to the right. I can see with my own two eyes the weapon and have seen videos of the shells being ejected. I know base don such that the shells are not ejected to the left.
I know the experts FROM THIS CASE assessed the shooter could only have stood in the shaded area and could only have aimed the weapon in the direction of the bed. The gun had to be aimed with the victim in bed or next to the bed.
You disregard such and just keep making up it is possible for the shooter to have been shooting into the hall. You want to pretend Nevill was sideways on the stairs being shot at though the gun was aimed inside the room and it would make no sense to be sideways on the stairs.
There is good reason the defense didn't try raising any such claims- it is nonsense.
Make up the victims were anywhere next to the bed you want trying to explain where the shooter stood and the victim was by the bed or in the bed. That is the most one can do. The killer was shooting at people in/on the bed or next to the bed with the exception of the shot fired when June was in the doorway.
I'm very well aware that the anshutz ejects spent cartridges to the right and my theory fits with this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgz0lqGVouo
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Does anyone know who was responsible for drawing this up:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5896
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I TOTALLY diagree my theory is entirely plausible and accounts for:
- None of NB's blood found in the main bedroom
- Casing location
- Trajectories of wounds
My post #1 in this thread is by far the best post I have made to date on Blue or Red and is potentially a real game changer.
NB's location on the stairs immediately preceding the main bedroom will be proven by taking the difference in height between NB and SC, the depth of the step and trajectories of wounds.
Who drew the sketch of the main bedroom showing location of casings?
Post expert evidence that Nevill's blood would have to be found in the room where he received the 4 shots to the left side of his body. You have none because it is not mandatory for his blood to have dripped in the room where he received these shots.
The graze wound would not result in him dripping blood.
The arm wound wound not be likely to result in him dripping blood his clothing soaked up the blood. When his blood soaked clothing bumped the wall that was when he transferred blood.
The lip wound wound not be likely to result in blood leaking.
The jaw wound would likely result in internal bleeding in his mouth. If he tried to speak while his mouth was full of blood that is when he would be likely to have blood leak out most of which would end up on him though a little could hit the floor.
So your entire premise is built around the false proposition that the room where he was shot would have to have his blood. You made this up from thin air you have no expert support at all.
It is also built on the fictional notion none of his blood was in the master bedroom though it very well could have been. They didn't test the bedding or most of the blood stains on the carpet. The only way to prove his blood wasn't there would be to test all such evidence to detail whose blood every drop was. But even if his blood wasn't there it is meaningless because the wounds would not necessarily result in any blood in the room where he was shot.
You are even more delusional in claiming the casings support you. The casings prove the shooter was int he bedroom and shot in the direction of the bed. The casings would have been in the hallway if the shooter were firing while in the hall or by the wall with the window if in the bedroom firing into the hall.
The trajectory of the shots makes your claims totally impossible you are delusional in claiming the trajectory supports you. The killer was facing Nevill's left profile. Nevill can't have been on the stairs and yet shot in his left profile unless he was coming up the stairs and the killer was standing in Sheila's doorway. That would result in the casings going down the stairs not into the master bedroom. Indeed most of the casings were behind the doorway which means the door would have to be closed for the casings to get there. With the door closed the shooter would have to be inside the room.
You completely ignore the bullet that grazed Nevill was found in the bedroom in the meantime.
All you keep doing is ignoring reality and saying the evidence supports you when in reality it refutes your babble instead.
Your behavior is much like NGB's irrational behavior when we debated history. He said he saw the US military being defeated in Vietnam and trashed the US military. I noted the US military won every battle and left as victors with a peace treaty in hand I dared him to post where we were defeated. He said he saw the US military get crushed when the US military pulled out of the US embassy. I retorted that at a result of the Peace treaty our military left and we had only about 200 military left in country most guarding the embassy only. How does a million man force facing 200 men guarding an embassy amount to defeating the US military and mean that the US military is weak?
NGB is so anti-American that he has to live the pretense in his mind that the US has a weak military and evil foreign policy. He is Soviet sympathizer which would seem to account for his bias. The same way he prefers to live in a fantasy world rather than face reality so too do you seem to do so. You are doing the same exact thing he did. Like he wants to pretend that the US military was defeated in Vietnam you want to pretend that the evidence proves what you wish it proved instead of facing what it actually proves. NGB does the same with some issues of this case for instance he said he thinks it is possible Sheila was killed in the kitchen and her body moved which made Harters go crazy and he got banned for tearing into NGB so heavily. The same way he ignored the evidence that proves she was shot in the bedroom so too do you ignore the evidence proving that is where Nevill was shot. In NGB you have chosen a poor example to worship and emulate. It won't get you very far.
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I'm very well aware that the anshutz ejects spent cartridges to the right and my theory fits with this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgz0lqGVouo
No it doesn't. If the shooter were in the hall shooting at someone on the stairs then the casings would be on the stairs or at the bottom of the stairs. In the meantime the trajectory of the shots wound have been to Nevill's back not his profile. The bullet that grazed him would not be in the bedroom either.
Shooting from the bedroom into the hall would result in the casings being near the chair against the wall with the window. Instead they were found behind the door which not only is to the left of where the weapon would be but worse would be impossible for the casing to go unless the door were a hologram...
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Post expert evidence that Nevill's blood would have to be found in the room where he received the 4 shots to the left side of his body. You have none because it is not mandatory for his blood to have dripped in the room where he received these shots.
The graze wound would not result in him dripping blood.
The arm wound wound not be likely to result in him dripping blood his clothing soaked up the blood. When his blood soaked clothing bumped the wall that was when he transferred blood.
The lip wound wound not be likely to result in blood leaking.
The jaw wound would likely result in internal bleeding in his mouth. If he tried to speak while his mouth was full of blood that is when he would be likely to have blood leak out most of which would end up on him though a little could hit the floor.
So your entire premise is built around the false proposition that the room where he was shot would have to have his blood. You made this up from thin air you have no expert support at all.
blood loss.
It is also built on the fictional notion none of his blood was in the master bedroom though it very well could have been. They didn't test the bedding or most of the blood stains on the carpet. The only way to prove his blood wasn't there would be to test all such evidence to detail whose blood every drop was. But even if his blood wasn't there it is meaningless because the wounds would not necessarily result in any blood int he room where he was shot.
You are even more delusional in claiming the casings support you. The casings prove the shooter was int he bedroom and shot in the direction of the bed. The casings woudl have been int he hallway if the shooter were firing while in the hall or by the wall with the window if in the bedroom firing into the hall.
The trajectory of the shots makes your claims totally impossible you are delusional in claimign the trajectory supports you. The killer was facing Nevill's left profile. Nevill can't have been on the stairs and yet shot in his left profile unless he was coming up the stairs and the killer was standing in Sheila's doorway. That would result in the casings going down the stairs not into the master bedroom. Indeed most of the casings were behind the doorway which means the door would have to be closed for the casings to get there. With the door closed the shooter would have to be inside the room.
You completely ignore the bullet that grazed Nevill was found in the bedroom in the meantime.
All you keep doing is ignoring reality and saying the evidence supports you when in reality it refutes your babble instead.
Your behavior is much like NGB's irraitional behavior when we debated history. He said he saw the US military being defeated in Vietnam and trashed the US military. I noted the US military won every battle and left as victors with a peace treaty in hand I dared him to post where we were defeated. He said he saw the US military get crushed when the US military pulled out of the US embassy. I retorted that at a result of the Peace treaty out military left and we had only about 200 military left in country most guarding the embassy only. How does a million man force facing 200 men guarding an embassy amount to defeating the US military and mean that the US military is weak?
NGB is so anti-American that he has to live the pretense in his mind that the US has a weak military and evil foreign policy. He is Soviet sympathizer which would seem to account for his bias. The same way he prefers to live in a fantasy world rather than face reality so too do you seem to do so. You are doing the same exact thing he did. Like he wants to pretend that the US military was defeated in Vietnam you want to pretend that the evidence proves what you wish it proved instead of facing what it actually proves. NGB does the same with some issues of this case for instance he said he thinks it is possible Heila was killed in the kitchen and her body moved which made Harters go crazy and he got banned for tearing into NGB so heavily. The same way he ignored the evidence that proves she was shot in the bedroom so too do you ignore the evidence proving that is where Nevill was shot. In NGB you have chosen a poor example to worship and emulate. It won't get you very far.
brilliantly explained.master Scipio. 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Post expert evidence that Nevill's blood would have to be found in the room where he received the 4 shots to the left side of his body. You have none because it is not mandatory for his blood to have dripped in the room where he received these shots.
The graze wound would not result in him dripping blood.
The arm wound wound not be likely to result in him dripping blood his clothing soaked up the blood. When his blood soaked clothing bumped the wall that was when he transferred blood.
The lip wound wound not be likely to result in blood leaking.
The jaw wound would likely result in internal bleeding in his mouth. If he tried to speak while his mouth was full of blood that is when he would be likely to have blood leak out most of which would end up on him though a little could hit the floor.
So your entire premise is built around the false proposition that the room where he was shot would have to have his blood. You made this up from thin air you have no expert support at all.
blood loss.
It is also built on the fictional notion none of his blood was in the master bedroom though it very well could have been. They didn't test the bedding or most of the blood stains on the carpet. The only way to prove his blood wasn't there would be to test all such evidence to detail whose blood every drop was. But even if his blood wasn't there it is meaningless because the wounds would not necessarily result in any blood int he room where he was shot.
You are even more delusional in claiming the casings support you. The casings prove the shooter was int he bedroom and shot in the direction of the bed. The casings woudl have been int he hallway if the shooter were firing while in the hall or by the wall with the window if in the bedroom firing into the hall.
The trajectory of the shots makes your claims totally impossible you are delusional in claimign the trajectory supports you. The killer was facing Nevill's left profile. Nevill can't have been on the stairs and yet shot in his left profile unless he was coming up the stairs and the killer was standing in Sheila's doorway. That would result in the casings going down the stairs not into the master bedroom. Indeed most of the casings were behind the doorway which means the door would have to be closed for the casings to get there. With the door closed the shooter would have to be inside the room.
You completely ignore the bullet that grazed Nevill was found in the bedroom in the meantime.
All you keep doing is ignoring reality and saying the evidence supports you when in reality it refutes your babble instead.
Your behavior is much like NGB's irraitional behavior when we debated history. He said he saw the US military being defeated in Vietnam and trashed the US military. I noted the US military won every battle and left as victors with a peace treaty in hand I dared him to post where we were defeated. He said he saw the US military get crushed when the US military pulled out of the US embassy. I retorted that at a result of the Peace treaty out military left and we had only about 200 military left in country most guarding the embassy only. How does a million man force facing 200 men guarding an embassy amount to defeating the US military and mean that the US military is weak?
NGB is so anti-American that he has to live the pretense in his mind that the US has a weak military and evil foreign policy. He is Soviet sympathizer which would seem to account for his bias. The same way he prefers to live in a fantasy world rather than face reality so too do you seem to do so. You are doing the same exact thing he did. Like he wants to pretend that the US military was defeated in Vietnam you want to pretend that the evidence proves what you wish it proved instead of facing what it actually proves. NGB does the same with some issues of this case for instance he said he thinks it is possible Heila was killed in the kitchen and her body moved which made Harters go crazy and he got banned for tearing into NGB so heavily. The same way he ignored the evidence that proves she was shot in the bedroom so too do you ignore the evidence proving that is where Nevill was shot. In NGB you have chosen a poor example to worship and emulate. It won't get you very far.
If you dont think NB's blood dripped whose blood was this then?
Two blood stained carpet samples were taken from the landing DRH/47 and DRH/49. Again I havent seen any results even if negative.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=221
According to AE's WS EP pointed out some blood on the stairs:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3100
There was also a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=216;image
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217
NB's facial wounds were not to the left side as per diagram and autopsy report:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6883.0;attach=5944
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676
These wounds were so serious they would have killed NB had the head shots not supervened. Had the facial shots been to the left profile as you claim they would not have been so serious.
Can I ask that you stick to topic please. Your comments re NGB have no relevance to this thread.
I would be grateful if you could respond to my post on the other thread re the garment hanging over banister.
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Post expert evidence that Nevill's blood would have to be found in the room where he received the 4 shots to the left side of his body. You have none because it is not mandatory for his blood to have dripped in the room where he received these shots.
The graze wound would not result in him dripping blood.
The arm wound wound not be likely to result in him dripping blood his clothing soaked up the blood. When his blood soaked clothing bumped the wall that was when he transferred blood.
The lip wound wound not be likely to result in blood leaking.
The jaw wound would likely result in internal bleeding in his mouth. If he tried to speak while his mouth was full of blood that is when he would be likely to have blood leak out most of which would end up on him though a little could hit the floor.
So your entire premise is built around the false proposition that the room where he was shot would have to have his blood. You made this up from thin air you have no expert support at all.
It is also built on the fictional notion none of his blood was in the master bedroom though it very well could have been. They didn't test the bedding or most of the blood stains on the carpet. The only way to prove his blood wasn't there would be to test all such evidence to detail whose blood every drop was. But even if his blood wasn't there it is meaningless because the wounds would not necessarily result in any blood in the room where he was shot.
You are even more delusional in claiming the casings support you. The casings prove the shooter was int he bedroom and shot in the direction of the bed. The casings would have been in the hallway if the shooter were firing while in the hall or by the wall with the window if in the bedroom firing into the hall.
The trajectory of the shots makes your claims totally impossible you are delusional in claiming the trajectory supports you. The killer was facing Nevill's left profile. Nevill can't have been on the stairs and yet shot in his left profile unless he was coming up the stairs and the killer was standing in Sheila's doorway. That would result in the casings going down the stairs not into the master bedroom. Indeed most of the casings were behind the doorway which means the door would have to be closed for the casings to get there. With the door closed the shooter would have to be inside the room.
You completely ignore the bullet that grazed Nevill was found in the bedroom in the meantime.
All you keep doing is ignoring reality and saying the evidence supports you when in reality it refutes your babble instead.
SNIP:
As far as I am aware the bedding was tested. DC Hammersley's trial testimony confirms everything of evidential value was removed. I assume removed for forensic analysis?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=223;image
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As far as I am aware the bedding was tested. DC Hammersley's trial testimony confirms everything of evidential value was removed. I assume removed for forensic analysis?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=223;image
In other words you choose to just make things up. The bedding was not tested. They did not test ANY of the blood on the bedding. What they took was the pillowcases and bottom sheet. They intended to leave most of the bedding for the family to dispose of but burned it for Jeremy. rational person would look for evidence of sheets being sent to the lab and tested before asserting blood testing was done. It wasn't. The only items blood tested from the bedroom were the socks and 5 drops from each of the 2 pieces of carpet they took.
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No it doesn't. If the shooter were in the hall shooting at someone on the stairs then the casings would be on the stairs or at the bottom of the stairs. In the meantime the trajectory of the shots wound have been to Nevill's back not his profile. The bullet that grazed him would not be in the bedroom either.
Shooting from the bedroom into the hall would result in the casings being near the chair against the wall with the window. Instead they were found behind the door which not only is to the left of where the weapon would be but worse would be impossible for the casing to go unless the door were a hologram...
The shooter was standing in the bedroom for the facial shots with the barrel extending onto the landing and the ejector port within the main bedroom. This accounts for casing DRH/3 and DRH/4. They were restricted from going far due to internal walls. The shooter and NB were on the main stairs facing downwards towards the main hall for the elbow and shoulder shots and casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 account for these shots. The ejection port ejected the cartridges to the right with DRH/13 landing on the transition plate and DRH/14 rolling a little further back.
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As far as I am aware the bedding was tested. DC Hammersley's trial testimony confirms everything of evidential value was removed. I assume removed for forensic analysis?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=223;image
the bedsheets and pillow would not have any evidence them.because they were not on the bed.the ones on the bed bamber took with him
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In other words you choose to just make things up. The bedding was not tested. They did not test ANY of the blood on the bedding. What they took was the pillowcases and bottom sheet. They intended to leave most of the bedding for the family to dispose of but burned it for Jeremy. rational person would look for evidence of sheets being sent to the lab and tested before asserting blood testing was done. It wasn't. The only items blood tested from the bedroom were the socks and 5 drops from each of the 2 pieces of carpet they took.
How am I making things up when SoC officer, DC Hammersley, stated in his trial testimony that the bed was stripped and everything of evidential value removed?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=223;image
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the bedsheets and pillow would not have any evidence them.because they were not on the bed.the ones on the bed bamber took with him
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5594.0;attach=4504
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If you dont think NB's blood dripped whose blood was this then?
Two blood stained carpet samples were taken from the landing DRH/47 and DRH/49. Again I havent seen any results even if negative.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=221
According to AE's WS EP pointed out some blood on the stairs:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3100
There was also a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=216;image
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217
NB's facial wounds were not to the left side as per diagram and autopsy report:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6883.0;attach=5944
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676
These wounds were so serious they would have killed NB had the head shots not supervened. Had the facial shots been to the left profile as you claim they would not have been so serious.
Can I ask that you stick to topic please. Your comments re NGB have no relevance to this thread.
I would be grateful if you could respond to my post on the other thread re the garment hanging over banister.
Nevill's blood dripped in the hall one of 2 ways:
1) he tried to wake Sheila by talking or otherwise opened his mouth for some other reason resulting in some blood loss
or
2) a little of his blood dripped off the weapon/killer which had been his with his spatter.
It is obvious that the blood didn't leak as a result of him being shot there but rather was dripped there subsequent to him being wounded or killed.
You keep making the false argument that his blood would have to have been in the bedroom if he was shot there which is false. Even if he dripped blood in the hall and down the stairs it would not prove he had to drip it in the bedroom. His mouth first had to fill with blood and then him to open his mouth for him to drip blood.
FURTHERMORE, they didn't test most of the blood in the bedroom so you have no way to know whether any of the multitude of drops on the carpet were his blood or not and no way to know if any of his blood was on the bedding or not. All you know is that the blood on the socks and the ten drops tested from the carpet were not his. The samples of carpet contained more than 5 drops of blood but only 5 were tested. It is possible for one of the untested drops to be Nevill's. There was more blood on the rugs that was not cut out also.
It doesn't matter how many times you raise your nonsense the following facts will still always be true:
1) Nevill could have been shot in the bedroom and left without dripping any blood in there.
2) Some of the blood in the bedroom never tested could have been Nevill's.
You just keep making up the fiction that his blood would have to have been dripped in the room where he was shot and that the bedroom definitely had none of his blood. The same way a court woudl ignore your mad eup claims so too do I.
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In other words you choose to just make things up. The bedding was not tested. They did not test ANY of the blood on the bedding. What they took was the pillowcases and bottom sheet. They intended to leave most of the bedding for the family to dispose of but burned it for Jeremy. rational person would look for evidence of sheets being sent to the lab and tested before asserting blood testing was done. It wasn't. The only items blood tested from the bedroom were the socks and 5 drops from each of the 2 pieces of carpet they took.
see holly now you know why is called the master.if youre going to discuss facts with master scipio.than you better read every bit of information regarding the case and also every diagram and photo.because thats what the master has done
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How am I making things up when SoC officer, DC Hammersley, stated in his trial testimony that the bed was stripped and everything of evidential value removed?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=223;image
They said they burned most of the bedding. You chose to ignore most of it was burned and PRETEND it was all send to the lab to be blood tested though as i have pointed out to you COUNTLESS TIMES EVERY piece of evidence that was blood tested was addressed by defense expert Lincoln so all you have to do is read his report to know what was tested you don't even need to go through all the lab HOLAB crap posted on blue to try to figure it out.
They didn't consider the most of the bedding important evidence wise so burned it. They already had enough proof that Nevill, June and Sheila were shot in the bedroom so had no need to test most of the blood. They tested the blood they did to help establish June's movements.
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see holly now you know why is called the master.if youre going to discuss facts with master scipio.than you better read every bit of information regarding the case and also every diagram and photo.because thats what the master has done
What I am citing is common knowledge. Most on blue have read Lincoln's report and know what was blood tested. Holly intentionally refuses to go to sources when she doesn't like what answer the source provides. That is when she plays games.
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Nevill's blood dripped in the hall one of 2 ways:
1) he tried to wake Sheila by talking or otherwise opened his mouth for some other reason resulting in some blood loss
or
2) a little of his blood dripped off the weapon/killer which had been his with his spatter.
It is obvious that the blood didn't leak as a result of him being shot there but rather was dripped there subsequent to him being wounded or killed.
You keep making the false argument that his blood would have to have been in the bedroom if he was shot there which is false. Even if he dripped blood in the hall and down the stairs it would not prove he had to drip it in the bedroom. His mouth first had to fill with blood and then him to open his mouth for him to drip blood.
FURTHERMORE, they didn't test most of the blood in the bedroom so you have no way to know whether any of the multitude of drops on the carpet were his blood or not and no way to know if any of his blood was on the bedding or not. All you know is that the blood on the socks and the ten drops tested from the carpet were not his. The samples of carpet contained more than 5 drops of blood but only 5 were tested. It is possible for one of the untested drops to be Nevill's. There was more blood on the rugs that was not cut out also.
It doesn't matter how many times you raise your nonsense the following facts will still always be true:
1) Nevill could have been shot in the bedroom and left without dripping any blood in there.
2) Some of the blood in the bedroom never tested could have been Nevill's.
You just keep making up the fiction that his blood would have to have been dripped in the room where he was shot and that the bedroom definitely had none of his blood. The same way a court woudl ignore your mad eup claims so too do I.
Look at the SoC photos and blood pertaining to June. Not one spot of blood pertaining to NB and yet claim he was shot four times in the bedroom? It's not just the lack of blood but the trajectories of wounds.
Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds. They all stack up with my theory.
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Look at the SoC photos and blood pertaining to June. Not one spot of blood pertaining to NB and yet you claim he was shot four times in the bedroom? It's not just the lack of blood but the trajectories of wounds.
Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds. They all stack up with my theory.
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Scipio are you able to answer my Q here plse. There was some misunderstanding.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6697.msg294188#msg294188
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Look at the SoC photos and blood pertaining to June. Not one spot of blood pertaining to NB and yet claim he was shot four times in the bedroom? It's not just the lack of blood but the trajectories of wounds.
Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds. They all stack up with my theory.
The trajectories and casings totally refute your theory they are not in accord except in your delusional mind.
With Nevill on the stairs it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire a shot into his left profile from the doorway of the master bedroom or anywhere else unless once is a ghost with a ghost rifle and can stick their rifle through the wall. The casings would shoot into the hall in such situation not left.
As for the blood all you keep doing is making up that he would have to bleed in the room where the shots were fired though that is false and making up that all the blood was tested and wasn't his though that is blatantly false and most of the blood on the floor was not tested and none of the blood on the bed was tested so we don't know if his blood was there or not.
That's it you just repeated the same disproved stuff over and over like a broken record so this debate can go round and round and you will still be wrong now matter how many times you keep raising it.
Go to any doorway you want and have someone stand on the left side where Nevill would be in relation to the bedroom door if he had been on the stairs going down. Can you see the left shoulder of such person and target the side of it? NO you can see their back only and the right half of their back at that because the corner HIDES the left side. That is before even taking it no account the stairs wall.
It he were coming up the stairs then the shots would come from right to left but still would be frontal. The trajectory was the complete opposite of this it was left to right and from the side. Your claims are totally impossible except in your mind.
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The shooter was standing in the bedroom for the facial shots with the barrel extending onto the landing and the ejector port within the main bedroom. This accounts for casing DRH/3 and DRH/4. They were restricted from going far due to internal walls. The shooter and NB were on the main stairs facing downwards towards the main hall for the elbow and shoulder shots and casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 account for these shots. The ejection port ejected the cartridges to the right with DRH/13 landing on the transition plate and DRH/14 rolling a little further back.
I looked at this in a some depth years ago Holly, casings DRH/3 and DRH/4 are attributed to the rounds which were fired at June whilst the shooter was standing just inside the door and directly in front of the bed.
DRH/13 would also appear to have come from a shot taken from inside the bedroom. DRH/14 was most probably the result of a shot taken from a position just outside the bedroom door with the rifle pointing towards the bedroom. The experts who attended the scene reckoned that both DRH/13 and DRH/14 were shots directed at June during the second phase. It is my view that casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 were probably kicked about by the shooter or by the police first responders.
(http://i.imgur.com/pNkdjFU.png?1)
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The trajectories and casings totally refute your theory they are not in accord except in your delusional mind.
With Nevill on the stairs it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire a shot into his left profile from the doorway of the master bedroom or anywhere else unless once is a ghost with a ghost rifle and can stick their rifle through the wall. The casings would shoot into the hall in such situation not left.
As for the blood all you keep doing is making up that he would have to bleed in the room where the shots were fired though that is false and making up that all the blood was tested and wasn't his though that is blatantly false and most of the blood on the floor was not tested and none of the blood on the bed was tested so we don't know if his blood was there or not.
That's it you just repeated the same disproved stuff over and over like a broken record so this debate can go round and round and you will still be wrong now matter how many times you keep raising it.
Go to any doorway you want and have someone stand on the left side where Nevill would be in relation to the bedroom door if he had been on the stairs going down. Can you see the left shoulder of such person and target the side of it? NO you can see their back only and the right half of their back at that because the corner HIDES the left side. That is before even taking it no account the stairs wall.
It he were coming up the stairs then the shots would come from right to left but still would be frontal. The trajectory was the complete opposite of this it was left to right and from the side. Your claims are totally impossible except in your mind.
another brilliant explanation by the master .master Scipio your knowledge in this case is fantastic 8((()*/ 8@??)(you dont give bamberretts a leg to stand on.
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The trajectories and casings totally refute your theory they are not in accord except in your delusional mind.
With Nevill on the stairs it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire a shot into his left profile from the doorway of the master bedroom or anywhere else unless once is a ghost with a ghost rifle and can stick their rifle through the wall. The casings would shoot into the hall in such situation not left.
As for the blood all you keep doing is making up that he would have to bleed in the room where the shots were fired though that is false and making up that all the blood was tested and wasn't his though that is blatantly false and most of the blood on the floor was not tested and none of the blood on the bed was tested so we don't know if his blood was there or not.
That's it you just repeated the same disproved stuff over and over like a broken record so this debate can go round and round and you will still be wrong now matter how many times you keep raising it.
Go to any doorway you want and have someone stand on the left side where Nevill would be in relation to the bedroom door if he had been on the stairs going down. Can you see the left shoulder of such person and target the side of it? NO you can see their back only and the right half of their back at that because the corner HIDES the left side. That is before even taking it no account the stairs wall.
It he were coming up the stairs then the shots would come from right to left but still would be frontal. The trajectory was the complete opposite of this it was left to right and from the side. Your claims are totally impossible except in your mind.
Are you aware which sets of stairs I am referring to? I am referring to the 2 stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom for the facial shots:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920
And the main stairs for the elbow and shoulder shots:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947
Where does it state the shots are to the left profile?
I have already posted the diagram and autopsy reports showing the nature of the wounds. They are not to the left profile.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5885
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676
Compare the SoC photos and the amount of blood attributed to June and the fact none of NB's was found:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6697.msg294176#msg294176
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5594.0;attach=4504
The trajectories of the facial wounds were both 20 degrees below the horizontal. How do you account for this when JB and SC were both shorter than NB?
How do you account for casing DRH 14 on the landing?
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I looked at this in a some depth years ago Holly, casings DRH/3, DRH/4 and DRH/5 are attributed to the rounds which were fired at June whilst the shooter was standing just inside the door and directly in front of the bed.
(http://i.imgur.com/pNkdjFU.png?1)
I disagree John. I think the perp was stood around the entrance with the ejection port in such a postion DRH/3 and DRH/4 ejected within the main bedroom and the barrel was facing towards NB on the two stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom:
DRH/5 is a bullet not a casing:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201
That's why it is black on the following to differentiate between a casing and a bullet:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg294238#msg294238
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I disagree John. I think the perp was stood around the entrance with the ejection port in such a postion DRH/3 and DRH/4 ejected within the main bedroom and the barrel was facing towards NB on the two stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom:
DRH/5 is a bullet not a casing:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201
That's why it is black on the following to differentiate between a casing and a bullet:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg294238#msg294238
Virtually impossible as casings are normally ejected forward and to the right. In your scenario the casings would have ended up across the bed. You have to fire a weapon to realise that theory and practice can be two different things. With the best will in the world, ejected cases dont always obey sods law and can hit you in the face rather than disappear off to the side.
If the shooter was stood in the bedroom door entrance the casings could very well have ended up down the stairs. Failing that they could have rebounded off the bedroom door but for them to have landed together is impossible.
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Virtually impossible as casings are normally ejected forward and to the right. In your scenario the casings would have ended up across the bed. You have to fire a weapon to realise that theory and practice can be two different things. Ejected cases dont always obey sods law and can hit you in the face rather than disappear off to the side.
another good explanation.master john 8((()*/ 8@??)(
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Virtually impossible as casings are normally ejected forward and to the right. In your scenario the casings would have ended up across the bed. You have to fire a weapon to realise that theory and practice can be two different things. With the best will in the world, ejected cases dont always obey sods law and can hit you in the face rather than disappear off to the side.
If the shooter was stood in the bedroom door entrance the casings could very well have ended up down the stairs. Failing that they could have rebounded off the bedroom door but for them to have landed together is impossible.
How would my scenario have the casings ejecting onto the bed? If the perp was facing NB on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and fired the rifle from that postion the casings would eject forward and to the right but their flight impeded by the right angle of the walls.
They eject forward and right which accounts for DRH/3 and DRH/4 as the internal wall impeded their flight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgz0lqGVouo
The rifle also has a deflector plate.
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Are you aware which sets of stairs I am referring to? I am referring to the 2 stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom for the facial shots:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920
And the main stairs for the elbow and shoulder shots:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947
Where does it state the shots are to the left profile?
I have already posted the diagram and autopsy reports showing the nature of the wounds. They are not to the left profile.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5885
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676
Compare the SoC photos and the amount of blood attributed to June and the fact none of NB's was found:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6697.msg294176#msg294176
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5594.0;attach=4504
The trajectories of the facial wounds were both 20 degrees below the horizontal. How do you account for this when JB and SC were both shorter than NB?
How do you account for casing DRH 14 on the landing?
The only stairs near the bedroom are the stairs that are arrived at by walking out the door and then TURNING left. Unless one is completely blind and knows so little about guns that they think bullets zig zag one would recognize that the left side of someone walking down the stairs is hidden by the wall.
As i have stated no less than 50 times Nevill was most likely seated on the bed or just getting off the bed when he was shot and thus not fully upright. I based such on the location of the casing and location of the wounds because it explains BOTH.
With the shooter at the foot of the bed and Nevill seated on the bed getting up Nevill's left profile would be facing the killer which is how he was facing the killer when he was shot! His left profile was to the killer when he was shot. He was not walking towards the killer, he was not walking away from the killer his left profile was facing the killer which would only be the case in a few circumstances one of them being as he was getting out of bed.
The casings would shoot to June's side of the bed with the gun aimed at Nevill as he was seated on the bed. One casing was on June's side of the bed and others were on the floor right next to where June got up. They could have been knocked off the bed when June got up, could have ricocheted off the bed to that location.
The fact he was seated or in the process of rising explains the downward angle of the shots in addition to the fact they were fired at his left profile. It would also explain why he shot lower on the body than he wanted. He aimed at where Nevill's head was but as Nevill rose it ended up hitting his shoulder instead and his jaw and lip instead of his head. Getting up also caused him to only graze Nevill.
I already posted this to you the other day and many months ago in addition to posting in blue countless times which you read religiously because anytime I posted you commented here on what I wrote.
In fact all along since I have posted here I indicated he was not fully upright when shot this is nothing new. I noted that since his left profile was hit he can't have been shot on the stairs, this is nothing new.
Did you ever fire a gun in your life?
The green line represents where a shooter would have to be to fire the shots into Nevill's shoulder with him on the stairs. The shooter would have to be even further north in the room to achieve the shots to his lip, jaw and chest (blue line) Were there holes in the wall so as to suggest he was shot through the wall? NO!
From the doorway the only areas that a shooter could target on Nevill if he were walking downstairs would be from the middle of his body to the right side of his body. The left side of his body is hidden.
In the meantime the casings would shoot into the hall. The casings go right and forward. So they would have gone towards Sheila's door and either landed in the hall near her door or went through the stair railing to the bottom of the stairs. If the shooter had the gun far enough inside the room so that the casings landed in the room then they would be in the right corner.
(http://s18.postimg.org/jga9pv5mx/masterbedroom.jpg)
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The casings would shoot to June's side of the bed with the gun aimed at Nevill as he was seated on the bed. One casing was on June's side of the bed and others were on the floor right next to where June got up. They could have been knocked off the bed when June got up, could have ricocheted off the bed to that location.
The Anschutz 525 expels the casings at a forward angle.
https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s (https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s)
By looking at the diagram of the twins room it seems to make sense when you look at the pattern
(http://s17.postimg.org/g5vgpqz9r/twinsdiagram.jpg)
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The Anschutz 525 expels the casings at a forward angle.
https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s (https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s)
By looking at the diagram of the twins room it seems to make sense when you look at the pattern
(http://s17.postimg.org/g5vgpqz9r/twinsdiagram.jpg)
It expels them forward right. Forward right while shooting at Nevill would result in them landing on top of June. Only 1 casing was found on top of June though most either bounced off the bed as she was kicking around or fell off when she got up.
She was likely getting out of bed when the 2 chest shots were fired. Jeremy had to move the angle at which he was shooting at her which in turn resulted in those 2 casing being closer to the door. For some odd reason people think that the casings should have been on the floor on Nevill's side of the bed if he had been shot in the room but that's not the case they would land on the bed/deflect off the bed to where the mass grouping was. This is in part why the experts do not doubt Nevill was shot in the bedroom. The fact the bullet that grazed him was found in the bedroom is certainly another reason. Then of course there is the struggle in the kitchen which never would have happened but for the fact after firing 10 shots in the bedroom the gun was empty.
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Yes it would. Nevile could have fallen near the door way like triping over june
Tripping backwards then ie if forwards how did he sustain the lip and jaw shots 20 degrees below the horizontal?
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Tripping backwards then ie if forwards how did he sustain the lip and jaw shots 20 degrees below the horizontal?
Holly, are you being purposely obtuse?
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Holly, are you being purposely obtuse?
No, just seeking clarification on david1819's post.
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It expels them forward right. Forward right while shooting at Nevill would result in them landing on top of June. Only 1 casing was found on top of June though most either bounced off the bed as she was kicking around or fell off when she got up.
She was likely getting out of bed when the 2 chest shots were fired. Jeremy had to move the angle at which he was shooting at her which in turn resulted in those 2 casing being closer to the door. For some odd reason people think that the casings should have been on the floor on Nevill's side of the bed if he had been shot in the room but that's not the case they would land on the bed/deflect off the bed to where the mass grouping was. This is in part why the experts do not doubt Nevill was shot in the bedroom. The fact the bullet that grazed him was found in the bedroom is certainly another reason. Then of course there is the struggle in the kitchen which never would have happened but for the fact after firing 10 shots in the bedroom the gun was empty.
All bullets recovered from the main bedroom pertain to June:
- DRH 35 x 2 - DRH35 is the exhibit number for the pillow which when examined contained two bullets.
- DRH 9
- DRH 5
Confirmed in the following:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6883.0;attach=5949
You claim the bullet pertaining to NB's elbow shot was found in the bedroom?
Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 are both on the landing denoted by the different lettering how does this fit with the shootings taking place in the bedroom?
June was shot 7 times in the main bedroom. IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:
DRH/6
DRH/7 - one casing only - no idea why it's marked up twice on the above
DRH/8
DRH/10
DRH/11
DRH/12
DRH/43
NB was shot 4 times upstairs all of which were on the landing (2 steps by main bedroom) and the staircase marked S1 on WHF layout plan. IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:
DRH/3
DRH/4
DRH/13
DRH/14
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hi holly .i do respect your views.without you and some others this site would be boring .it would be full of people who think bamber is guilty .you bring a lot to this conversation .well done 8((()*/
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All bullets recovered from the main bedroom pertain to June:
- DRH 35 x 2 - DRH35 is the exhibit number for the pillow which when examined contained two bullets.
- DRH 9
- DRH 5
Confirmed in the following:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6883.0;attach=5949
You claim the bullet pertaining to NB's elbow shot was found in the bedroom?
Do you know how to count Holly? June was shot 7 times. She suffered 3 exit wounds which means 3 bullets exited her body. Fragments from 4 different bullets were removed from June's body. 4 plus 3=7. To anyone who can count and comprehends that there were only 3 exit wounds comprehends that only 3 of the 4 fragments recovered from the master bedroom were associated with her 3 exit wounds. The 4th (most likely DRH/5) was associated with Nevill's graze wound.
Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20
Nevill
1) PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
2) PV/9 slightly above wound 1
3) PV/3 top of skull
4) PV/4 top of skull
5) PV/10 (lip)
6) PV/11 (jaw)
7)PV/2 (Shoulder)
8)DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)
Wounds 1-4 were received in the kitchen, wounds 5-8 in the master bedroom. DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom.
June
1) PV/25 between eyes
2) PV/26 above right ear
3) DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
4) DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
5) PV/24 right upper chest
6) PV/23 lower chest
7) DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)
Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 are both on the landing denoted by the different lettering how does this fit with the shootings taking place in the bedroom?
There was 1 casing on the landing and it was in the corner directly against the wall. That casing was transported from the kitchen and was kicked off of the shoe it attached to thus landing right against the wall. DRH/13 was just inside the bedroom doorway touching the metal transition plate. Not only did the ballistic expert state such so did Hammersley in his report:
(http://s8.postimg.org/4f9off48l/hammersleyreport.jpg)
and trial testimony:
(http://s29.postimg.org/jsi1pwwnr/hammersleytestimony.jpg)
13 casings were found in the master bedroom. 1 on the landing (which was assocated with a shot fired in the kitchen), 3 in the kitchen and 8 in the boys room.
June was shot 7 times in the main bedroom. IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:
DRH/6
DRH/7 - one casing only - no idea why it's marked up twice on the above
DRH/8
DRH/10
DRH/11
DRH/12
DRH/43
NB was shot 4 times upstairs all of which were on the landing (2 steps by main bedroom) and the staircase marked S1 on WHF layout plan. IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:
DRH/3
DRH/4
DRH/13
DRH/14
Exhibit DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings not one just like DRH/35 consisted of 2 bullets not one. So you start right off the bat with an error.
DRH/14 is the missing casing from the kitchen. It either stuck to the killer's shoe or a cop's shoe and was kicked off while on the landing resulting in it ending up in a corner right against the wall. It was right in the area where the wall meets the floor of the landing.
13 casings were in the master bedroom. DRH/1 &2 were associated with Sheila's wounds. The remaining 11- DRH: 3, 4, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 43 were associated with the 11 wounds June and Nevill suffered in the bedroom. DRH/3 and 4 were most likely associated with the 2 chest shots to June which she received as she was getting out of bed. DRH/13 is associated with the shot between her eyes and DRH/8 associated with a shot to Nevill.
6, 7a, 7b, 10, 11, 12 and 43 are associated with the remaining 3 shots to Nevill and 4 shots June suffered while lying in bed. Since they are all in the same vicinity there is no way to try to separate them out. DRH/8 was on the bed thus landed on top of June. That could only happen if the gun were being aimed at Nevill's side of the bed so we know it pertains to a shot fired at Nevill. The other 3 casings from Nevill's shots either bounced off the bed as she was kicking the covers or fell off when she got up. There is no sure way to separate out which 3 bounced/fell off from the 4 that were associated with her being shot in bed since they were all in the same area. One could be simplistic and say the 3 on the floor closest to the bed were associated with the shots to Nevill and other 4 to June but that might not be the case.
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hi holly .i do respect your views.without you and some others this site would be boring .it would be full of people who think bamber is guilty .you bring a lot to this conversation .well done 8((()*/
Thanks sherlock 8((()*/ I might not be around much over the next couple of weeks as I have a lot of things on with the normal Christmas/New Year things.
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Thanks sherlock 8((()*/ I might not be around much over the next couple of weeks as I have a lot of things on with the normal Christmas/New Year things.
yes i think we will all have less time free because of the festive season.i know master scipio usmc can be very rude at times.but you have to ignore that and look at the facts he presents.iam personally in awe at the knowledge he has on this case.its fantastic.i was only 60% sure about bambers guilt when i joined this forum.but now i would say its 100%
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yes i think we will all have less time free because of the festive season.i know master scipio usmc can be very rude at times.but you have to ignore that and look at the facts he presents.iam personally in awe at the knowledge he has on this case.its fantastic.i was only 60% sure about bambers guilt when i joined this forum.but now i would say its 100%
The Jeremy Bamber forum AKA blue forum has many primary documents which are conveniently indexed in the archive section. It is worth registering there in order to be able to read such documents. Many of the claims made there consist of lies and nonsense, particularly from Mike T and his fans but if you ignore such and read the materials you will be able to get a strong understanding. I have explored all the supporter claims particularly the most damning ones to see if there is any truth to their allegations. Upon scrutiny they all fall apart. The stuff that really attracts you to this case- the claims of police switching moderators, moving bodies around, shooting the victims etc all turned out to be utter bunk. When all that crap is stripped away it is a pretty mundane case. The notion police concealed receiving a phone call from Nevill particularly intrigued me. I thought maybe they were railroading Jeremy. But after I found out the frivolous basis of such allegations and the others it became clear that supporters like Mike and the Campaign Team are out to distort and play games for their own purposes simply.
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Do you know how to count Holly? June was shot 7 times. She suffered 3 exit wounds which means 3 bullets exited her body. Fragments from 4 different bullets were removed from June's body. 4 plus 3=7. To anyone who can count and comprehends that there were only 3 exit wounds comprehends that only 3 of the 4 fragments recovered from the master bedroom were associated with her 3 exit wounds. The 4th (most likely DRH/5) was associated with Nevill's graze wound.
Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20
Nevill
1) PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
2) PV/9 slightly above wound 1
3) PV/3 top of skull
4) PV/4 top of skull
5) PV/10 (lip)
6) PV/11 (jaw)
7)PV/2 (Shoulder)
8)DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)
Wounds 1-4 were received in the kitchen, wounds 5-8 in the master bedroom. DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom.
June
1) PV/25 between eyes
2) PV/26 above right ear
3) DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
4) DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
5) PV/24 right upper chest
6) PV/23 lower chest
7) DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)
There was 1 casing on the landing and it was in the corner directly against the wall. That casing was transported from the kitchen and was kicked off of the shoe it attached to thus landing right against the wall. DRH/13 was just inside the bedroom doorway touching the metal transition plate. Not only did the ballistic expert state such so did Hammersley in his report:
(http://s8.postimg.org/4f9off48l/hammersleyreport.jpg)
and trial testimony:
(http://s29.postimg.org/jsi1pwwnr/hammersleytestimony.jpg)
13 casings were found in the master bedroom. 1 on the landing (which was assocated with a shot fired in the kitchen), 3 in the kitchen and 8 in the boys room.
Exhibit DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings not one just like DRH/35 consisted of 2 bullets not one. So you start right off the bat with an error.
DRH/14 is the missing casing from the kitchen. It either stuck to the killer's shoe or a cop's shoe and was kicked off while on the landing resulting in it ending up in a corner right against the wall. It was right in the area where the wall meets the floor of the landing.
13 casings were in the master bedroom. DRH/1 &2 were associated with Sheila's wounds. The remaining 11- DRH: 3, 4, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 43 were associated with the 11 wounds June and Nevill suffered in the bedroom. DRH/3 and 4 were most likely associated with the 2 chest shots to June which she received as she was getting out of bed. DRH/13 is associated with the shot between her eyes and DRH/8 associated with a shot to Nevill.
6, 7a, 7b, 10, 11, 12 and 43 are associated with the remaining 3 shots to Nevill and 4 shots June suffered while lying in bed. Since they are all in the same vicinity there is no way to try to separate them out. DRH/8 was on the bed thus landed on top of June. That could only happen if the gun were being aimed at Nevill's side of the bed so we know it pertains to a shot fired at Nevill. The other 3 casings from Nevill's shots either bounced off the bed as she was kicking the covers or fell off when she got up. There is no sure way to separate out which 3 bounced/fell off from the 4 that were associated with her being shot in bed since they were all in the same area. One could be simplistic and say the 3 on the floor closest to the bed were associated with the shots to Nevill and other 4 to June but that might not be the case.
Can I ask you right now please to cut the condescending comments.
June's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:
All June's gunshot wounds occur ed in the bedroom
1. Bullet recovered
2. Fragments recovered no exit wound
3. Exit wound
4. Exit wound
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Exit wound
Nevill's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:
NB's gunshot wounds 1 - 4 incl occurred in the kitchen
1. Bullet recovered
2. Bullet recovered
3. Bullet recovered
4. Bullet recovered
NB's gunshot wounds 5 - 8 incl location within WHF landing/stairs and/or main bedroom
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Bullet recovered
8. Fragments recovered no exit wound
The diagram showing the casing layout states all four bullets found in the main bedroom pertain to June - below
Contrary to your assertion there is no 7a and 7b simply DRH/7 one whole casing as per the list of exhibits - below
Excl the casings that pertain to SC, the main bedroom contained 9 casings with a further one casing on the transition strip separating main bedroom and landing and a further one casing on the landing.
A theory exists that a police officer carried a casing on his boot from the kitchen to the landing as only 3 casings were found in the kitchen when the pathology report indicates NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds in the kitchen. However this is just a theory there's no hard evidence to prove or disprove it. The casing may have slipped down some nook or cranny in the kitchen or got lost in the clean up.
To sustain your theory that NB was shot in the main bedroom you need to divide up one whole casing DRH/7 and create 7a and 7b even though no such exhibits exist and promote the theory that casing DRH/14 was transferred by a police officer's boot from the kitchen to the landing.
My theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs doesn't require whole casing DRH/7 to morph into 7a and 7b which have never featured as a recognised exhibit. Nor does it require a police officer to transfer a casing under his boot from the kitchen to the landing.
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Just to clarify where I have stated bullet recovered above I mean recovered by pathologist at autopsy.
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Can I ask you right now please to cut the condescending comments.
June's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:
All June's gunshot wounds occur ed in the bedroom
1. Bullet recovered
2. Fragments recovered no exit wound
3. Exit wound
4. Exit wound
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Exit wound
Nevill's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:
NB's gunshot wounds 1 - 4 incl occurred in the kitchen
1. Bullet recovered
2. Bullet recovered
3. Bullet recovered
4. Bullet recovered
NB's gunshot wounds 5 - 8 incl location within WHF landing/stairs and/or main bedroom
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Bullet recovered
8. Fragments recovered no exit wound
The diagram showing the casing layout states all four bullets found in the main bedroom pertain to June - below
Contrary to your assertion there is no 7a and 7b simply DRH/7 one whole casing as per the list of exhibits - below
Excl the casings that pertain to SC, the main bedroom contained 9 casings with a further one casing on the transition strip separating main bedroom and landing and a further one casing on the landing.
A theory exists that a police officer carried a casing on his boot from the kitchen to the landing as only 3 casings were found in the kitchen when the pathology report indicates NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds in the kitchen. However this is just a theory there's no hard evidence to prove or disprove it. The casing may have slipped down some nook or cranny in the kitchen or got lost in the clean up.
To sustain your theory that NB was shot in the main bedroom you need to divide up one whole casing DRH/7 and create 7a and 7b even though no such exhibits exist and promote the theory that casing DRH/14 was transferred by a police officer's boot from the kitchen to the landing.
My theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs doesn't require whole casing DRH/7 to morph into 7a and 7b which have never featured as a recognised exhibit. Nor does it require a police officer to transfer a bullet under his boot from the kitchen to the landing.
Where do you believe Neville was when Bamber opened fire on him.
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Can I ask you right now please to cut the condescending comments.
You asserted 4 loose bullets and 4 removed from June at autopsy were associated with 7 gunshot wounds June suffered. You should have enough sense to recognize that is 1 bullet too many to have been associated with her shots. In this post you have doubled down on that claim even though it is impossible. You earn such condescension. Of the 7 bullets that June suffered 4 lodged inside her body and were removed at autopsy. 3 exited and were found in the room. That means the other bullet found in the room wounded someone else. That someone else is Nevill, he suffered a graze wound which means the bullet scraped against the outside of his body. That bullet didn't disintegrate into thin air or lodge inside a wall where it could not be recovered from, it was recovered.
June's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:
All June's gunshot wounds occur ed in the bedroom
1. Bullet recovered
2. Fragments recovered no exit wound
3. Exit wound
4. Exit wound
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Exit wound
Nevill's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:
NB's gunshot wounds 1 - 4 incl occurred in the kitchen
1. Bullet recovered
2. Bullet recovered
3. Bullet recovered
4. Bullet recovered
NB's gunshot wounds 5 - 8 incl location within WHF landing/stairs and/or main bedroom
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Bullet recovered
8. Fragments recovered no exit wound
The list I provided details the wounds according to the order of the Autopsy report and also listed the exact exhibit fragments associated with each that Vanezis removed. I did so in order to be extremely clear about what bullet is associated with which wound. My list notes that Vanezis didn't recover any fragments from the bullet that grazed Nevill. You are wrong about a bullet being recovered by Vanezis. Vanezis determined that the bullet grazed Nevill's arm then SPLIT. A tiny portion broke off and entered Nevill's side and this tiny fragment was seen on the xray but could NOT be recovered because it was too small. The remainder of the bullet grazed his chest and ended up in the room.
So 7 of 8 bullets that hit Nevill were recovered from his body meaning the 8th which did not enter his body but only grazed his body thus was not recovered from his body HAD to still be inside the room where he was shot.
(http://s23.postimg.org/auj68zoa3/autopsy7entrancewounds.jpg)
June suffered 7 wounds- 4 lodged in her body and were removed while 3 exited so were not recovered at autopsy and thus these 3 still had to be in the room. 4 bullets were recovered from the master bedroom only 3 could have been associated with June's wounds so the 4th had to be associated with a shot to someone else and we know that someone else is Nevill.
The diagram showing the casing layout states all four bullets found in the main bedroom pertain to June - below
That's what police initially thought. Only after Vanezis published his autopsy report in September did they find out that June only suffered 3 exit wounds and that Nevill suffered a graze wound and that the 4th bullet was associated with such graze wound. I'm going by what ULTIMATELY was determined and argued at trial not by what police initially erroneously believed because what they erroneously believed initially is meaningless to the what is true.
Contrary to your assertion there is no 7a and 7b simply DRH/7 one whole casing as per the list of exhibits - below
You never learn for your mistakes and just keep on spouting the same erroneous nonsense over and over. Hammersley wrote in his report that exhibit 7 consisted of 2 casings as did his trial testimony. It also is stated in the ballistic report by Fletcher. You deserve the condescension you get because you don't ever face facts.
Note how Fletcher wrote in his report cases plural for DRH/7 but singular case for the others:
(http://s22.postimg.org/jhzi9aho1/fletchercases.jpg)
Note how Hammersley wrote he collected 2 cases as exhibit DRH/7 in his report
(http://s4.postimg.org/fzyn4egrh/hammersleyreportcases.jpg)
and his trial testimony:
(http://s2.postimg.org/nvbh0tt7d/hammerleycasestestimony.jpg)
The one wrong is you not me.
Excl the casings that pertain to SC, the main bedroom contained 9 casings with a further one casing on the transition strip separating main bedroom and landing and a further one casing on the landing.
A theory exists that a police officer carried a casing on his boot from the kitchen to the landing as only 3 casings were found in the kitchen when the pathology report indicates NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds in the kitchen. However this is just a theory there's no hard evidence to prove or disprove it. The casing may have slipped down some nook or cranny in the kitchen or got lost in the clean up.
To sustain your theory that NB was shot in the main bedroom you need to divide up one whole casing DRH/7 and create 7a and 7b even though no such exhibits exist and promote the theory that casing DRH/14 was transferred by a police officer's boot from the kitchen to the landing.
My theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs doesn't require whole casing DRH/7 to morph into 7a and 7b which have never featured as a recognised exhibit. Nor does it require a police officer to transfer a bullet under his boot from the kitchen to the landing.
11 casings were found in the bedroom. I didn't make up DRH/7 morphing into 2 cases I was accurate about it being 2 cases. There would be a case missing no matter what if DRH/7 were only 1 case so that alone should clue you in that you are wrong. You are living in fantasyland. Firing at him on the stairs from inside the bedroom doorway would not result in a casing landing in the doorway it would land near the chair because it is ejected right not left.
Worse yet your claims of Nevill being shot on the stairs is physically impossible. I already demonstrated it is impossible to fire shots at the angles of the wounds unless someone were shooting through the wall. Shooting from the doorway one could ONLY SEE and TARGET the middle of Nevill's back to the right side of his back. He wasn't shot in the back at all he was shot while Nevill's left profile was facing the shooter. Your theories are absurd and deserve being made fun of.
The diagram you place so much stock in states 13 cases were found in the bedroom and asserts DRH/14 was associated with a shot to June!
(http://s21.postimg.org/zaskdqvvb/diagramcasesassessment.jpg)
It lists DRH 1 and 2 as being associated with the shots to Sheila
It asserts June suffered a shot to her head and another between her eyes in a second episode and that the casings associated with such were DRH/13 and 14.
It says the other 10 found in the bedroom were associated with 5 shots to Nevill and 5 to June during the first episode. SUBSEQUENTLY they found out that Nevill was shot only 4 times in the bedroom not 5 and that in fact DRH/14 was a missing casing from the kitchen. They also found out that June's head wound was delivered while she was in bed not in a second episode only the shot between her eyes was delivered in a second episode. So they still maintained DRH/13 was from the shot between her eyes but changed to concluding DRH/14 was from the kitchen. They determined only 4 (not 5) of the other 10 casings in the bedroom were associated with Nevill so an additional of these had to be associated with a shot to June (6 instead of 5 like they originally thought).
Given you studied this case so much longer than me one has to wonder how you can be so wrong always about basic facts.
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Scipio I did not assert that June was shot a total of 8 times. I simply stated that the following document attributes all four bullets found in the bedroom to June.
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Scipio if you persist with this notion that casing DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings then you deserve to be lumped together with Mike, JB and the CT. Claiming DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings is on par with the aforementioned claiming 2 dead bodies in the kitchen and 2 telephone calls.
Worse still you attempt to liken the two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 to the one casing with exhibit label DRH/7. There is no comparison. The reason there are two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 is that the bullets were embedded in the pillow unbeknown to SoC officers. When the pillow arrived at the lab for forensic analysis the two bullets were identified and hence the two bullets found by FSS simply retained the exhibit label DRH/35 which pertains to the pillow. SoC officers identified DRH/7 at the SoC. It becomes plainly obvious DRH/7 relates to one casing from DC Hammersley's trial testimony. Where two casings are referred to simply relates to the fact that two casings were found under the wardrobe DRH/7 and DRH/43 and two casings can be seen in crime scene photo 40.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=219
The above can all be evidenced by crime scene photo 40: One casing DRH/7 and one casing DRH/43: two cases found under the wardrobe.
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Scipio, it is obviously straight-forward to identify bullets removed from victims by the pathologist at autopsy. It is far less straight-forward to identify which bullets relate to which victims where the bullets have exited. Were the exited bullets forensicially analysed for biological matter? Not that I am aware of.
It seems a given that DRH/35 x 2 relate to June since they were found embedded in the pillow she was using. DRH/9 appears to also relate to June. I don't accept DRH/5 necessarily relates to the graze wound NB sustained. Fragments were seen radiologically but not at post mortem. Dr Vanezis has suggested the reason for this is that the fragments were in clothing. Therefore it is possible the non-fragmented part of the bullet could have lodged in NB's pyjamas and lost at various stages. If it was difficult to determine visually whether the exited bullets were whole or fragmented then I would expect that to be determined by weight. Were they weighed?
June's wound '2' is unclear from the autopsy report in that fragments were identified at autopsy but no exit wound.
As I pointed out previously the diagram layout of the casings identifies bullet DRH/35 x2, DRH/9 and DRH/5 as all pertaining to June.
Bottom line is excl the two casings to SC there were 9 casings in the main bedroom, 1 on the transition strip and 1 on the landing which supports my theory that NB did not sustain any gunshot wounds in the main bedroom. NB sustained the gunshot wounds to his lip and jaw whilst he was stood on the two stairs immediately preceding the main entrance with the perp stood within the doorway. Casing DRH/3 and DRH/4 pertain to these wounds. NB sustained the gunshot wounds to his shoulder and elbow whilst he was on the main staircase with the perp behind him. Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 pertain to these wounds. It is entirely plausible. I have recently stated in another thread that exact measurements using lasers need to be taken from WHF taking into account all features such as door width, depth of stairs, width of spindles, including gaps between, and height of banisters. I am afraid you will not convince me otherwise using marker pens on the diagram below.
A police officer did not transfer casing DRH/14 from the kitchen to the landing under his foot. Impossible. NB and June were shot a total of 11 times upstairs if DRH/14 was transferred from the kitchen then a casing is missing from upstairs.
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Scipio, it is obviously straight-forward to identify bullets removed from victims by the pathologist at autopsy. It is far less straight-forward to identify which bullets relate to which victims where the bullets have exited. Were the exited bullets forensicially analysed for biological matter? Not that I am aware of.
It seems a given that DRH/35 x 2 relate to June since they were found embedded in the pillow she was using. DRH/9 appears to also relate to June. I don't accept DRH/5 necessarily relates to the graze wound NB sustained. Fragments were seen radiologically but not at post mortem. Dr Vanezis has suggested the reason for this is that the fragments were in clothing. Therefore it is possible the non-fragmented part of the bullet could have lodged in NB's pyjamas and lost at various stages. If it was difficult to determine visually whether the exited bullets were whole or fragmented then I would expect that to be determined by weight. Were they weighed?
June's wound '2' is unclear from the autopsy report in that fragments were identified at autopsy but no exit wound.
As I pointed out previously the diagram layout of the casings identifies bullet DRH/35 x2, DRH/9 and DRH/5 as all pertaining to June.
Bottom line is excl the two casings to SC there were 9 casings in the main bedroom, 1 on the transition strip and 1 on the landing which supports my theory that NB did not sustain any gunshot wounds in the main bedroom. NB sustained the gunshot wounds to his lip and jaw whilst he was stood on the two stairs immediately preceding the main entrance with the perp stood within the doorway. Casing DRH/3 and DRH/4 pertain to these wounds. NB sustained the gunshot wounds to his shoulder and elbow whilst he was on the main staircase with the perp behind him. Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 pertain to these wounds. It is entirely plausible. I have recently stated in another thread that exact measurements using lasers need to be taken from WHF taking into account all features such as door width, depth of stairs, width of spindles, including gaps between, and height of banisters. I am afraid you will not convince me otherwise using marker pens on the diagram below.
A police officer did not transfer casing DRH/14 from the kitchen to the landing under his foot. Impossible. NB and June were shot a total of 11 times upstairs if DRH/14 was transferred from the kitchen then a casing is missing from upstairs.
i see your point holly. &%+((£
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Scipio I did not assert that June was shot a total of 8 times. I simply stated that the following document attributes all four bullets found in the bedroom to June.
It attributes 6 casings in the bedroom to June and the one on the landing. Your reading comprehension skills either do not exist or you intentionally choose to pretend anything you feel like.
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Scipio if you persist with this notion that casing DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings then you deserve to be lumped together with Mike, JB and the CT. Claiming DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings is on par with the aforementioned claiming 2 dead bodies in the kitchen and 2 telephone calls.
Worse still you attempt to liken the two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 to the one casing with exhibit label DRH/7. There is no comparison. The reason there are two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 is that the bullets were embedded in the pillow unbeknown to SoC officers. When the pillow arrived at the lab for forensic analysis the two bullets were identified and hence the two bullets found by FSS simply retained the exhibit label DRH/35 which pertains to the pillow. SoC officers identified DRH/7 at the SoC. It becomes plainly obvious DRH/7 relates to one casing from DC Hammersley's trial testimony. Where two casings are referred to simply relates to the fact that two casings were found under the wardrobe DRH/7 and DRH/43 and two casings can be seen in crime scene photo 40.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=219
The above can all be evidenced by crime scene photo 40: One casing DRH/7 and one casing DRH/43: two cases found under the wardrobe.
The one like Mike is you. I presented the actual evidence in this case. The diagram says there are 2 bullets in exhibit DRH/7, the trial testimony says there were 2 casings the ballistic report says it consisted of multiple casing the report by Hammersley says it consisted of 2 casings.
You MADE UP that it is one casing and in so doing you claim there were only 24 casings found at the scene. Where did the 25th casings go? Did it vanish?
You make up things just like Mike in order to then allege idiotic things that make no sense to try to pretend Jeremy is innocent. That is exactly what Mike does he ignores evidence and reality to make up nonsense.
The diagram you place so much stock in clearly states 5 of ten casings related to June in the first episode and lists those 10 casings. DRH/7 is listed twice and on the drawing twice because it was 2 casings. Only with it listed twice are there 10 casings in that list that states it is composed of ten.
Exhibit DRH/39 also consisted of 2 casings. Hammersley did such 2 times not just one. You spend all your time ignoring facts and thus can't get a single thing right ever. It takes extreme ignorance or outright dishonesty to claim Nevill could be shot to his left profile form someone standing in the master bedroom doorway as Nevill was on the stairs.
For the sake of accuracy here are the 25 casings:
Associated with Master Bedroom Shootings:
1) DRH/1 right side of Sheila's body
2) DRH/2 Left hand side of Sheila's body
3) DRH/3 on the floor inside the door of the main bedroom to the left of June's body.
4) DRH/4 next to DRH/3
5) DRH/6 top of quit right hand side of the bed
6) DRH/7a under wardrobe
7) DRH/7b under wardrobe
8) DRH/8 left hand side of bed 4inches from the pillow
9) DRH/10 on the quilt right hand side of the bed on floor.
10) DRH/11 right hand side of bed on the floor near the wardrobe
11) DRH/12 on the floor right hand side of the bed
12) DRH/13 metal strip of doorway
13) DRH/43 under the wardrobe right hand side of bed
Kitchen Episode:
14) DRH/14...landing floor adjacent to the wall.
15) DRH/19
16) DRH/20
17) DRH/41
TWINS ROOM
18) DRH/16 floor between both beds
19) DRH/17 On wooden cabinet between both beds
20) DRH18 right hand side of bed
21) DRH/37 under wooden bedside cabinet
22) DRH/38 Under right hand side of the bed at the head of the bed
23) DRH 39 right hand corner under right hand side of the bed
24) DRH/39 right hand side bed
25) DRH 40 under the middle of the right hand bed
YOu render yourself little more than a joke when you ignore trial testimony which expressly states the photo they are examining shows two casings in exhibit DRH/7 and then ridiculously assert the testimony was false and that there was only one. It makes you appear to be a dishonest clown but if instead tyou are just thoroughly incompetent that is just as bad.
For the coup de grace here is the lab examination record for DRH/7 which not only clearly states it consisted of 2 spent cases it also provides a drawing for the head stamp of BOTH cases. The firing pin hot them in different locations. The cases have a big fat E which stands for Eley the manufacturer. You cna tell which way the case was spun and sitting int he chamber when the firing pin struck. They were quite differently positioned based on the firing pin impression being to the upper left of the E for one casings and lower right of the E for the other casing.
Now whine how you are not being treated fairly after you accuse others of lying when it is you who are so wrong and clueless.
(http://s28.postimg.org/hfod67vzh/labexamrecorddrh7.jpg)
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The one like Mike is you. I presented the actual evidence in this case. The diagram says there are 2 bullets in exhibit DRH/7, the trial testimony says there were 2 casings the ballistic report says it consisted of multiple casing the report by Hammersley says it consisted of 2 casings.
You MADE UP that it is one casing and in so doing you claim there were only 24 casings found at the scene. Where did the 25th casings go? Did it vanish?
You make up things just like Mike in order to then allege idiotic things that make no sense to try to pretend Jeremy is innocent. That is exactly what Mike does he ignores evidence and reality to make up nonsense.
The diagram you place so much stock in clearly states 5 of ten casings related to June in the first episode and lists those 10 casings. DRH/7 is listed twice and on the drawing twice because it was 2 casings. Only with it listed twice are there 10 casings in that list that states it is composed of ten.
Exhibit DRH/39 also consisted of 2 casings. Hammersley did such 2 times not just one. You spend all your time ignoring facts and thus can't get a single thing right ever. It takes extreme ignorance or outright dishonesty to claim Nevill could be shot to his left profile form someone standing in the master bedroom doorway as Nevill was on the stairs.
For the sake of accuracy here are the 25 casings:
Associated with Master Bedroom Shootings:
1) DRH/1 right side of Sheila's body
2) DRH/2 Left hand side of Sheila's body
3) DRH/3 on the floor inside the door of the main bedroom to the left of June's body.
4) DRH/4 next to DRH/3
5) DRH/6 top of quit right hand side of the bed
6) DRH/7a under wardrobe
7) DRH/7b under wardrobe
8) DRH/8 left hand side of bed 4inches from the pillow
9) DRH/10 on the quilt right hand side of the bed on floor.
10) DRH/11 right hand side of bed on the floor near the wardrobe
11) DRH/12 on the floor right hand side of the bed
12) DRH/13 metal strip of doorway
13) DRH/43 under the wardrobe right hand side of bed
Kitchen Episode:
14) DRH/14...landing floor adjacent to the wall.
15) DRH/19
16) DRH/20
17) DRH/41
TWINS ROOM
18) DRH/16 floor between both beds
19) DRH/17 On wooden cabinet between both beds
20) DRH18 right hand side of bed
21) DRH/37 under wooden bedside cabinet
22) DRH/38 Under right hand side of the bed at the head of the bed
23) DRH 39 right hand corner under right hand side of the bed
24) DRH/39 right hand side bed
25) DRH 40 under the middle of the right hand bed
YOu render yourself little more than a joke when you ignore trial testimony which expressly states the photo they are examining shows two casings in exhibit DRH/7 and then ridiculously assert the testimony was false and that there was only one. It makes you appear to be a dishonest clown but if instead tyou are just thoroughly incompetent that is just as bad.
For the coup de grace here is the lab examination record for DRH/7 which not only clearly states it consisted of 2 spent cases it also provides a drawing for the head stamp of BOTH cases. The firing pin hot them in different locations. The cases have a big fat E which stands for Eley the manufacturer. You cna tell which way the case was spun and sitting int he chamber when the firing pin struck. They were quite differently positioned based on the firing pin impression being to the upper left of the E for one casings and lower right of the E for the other casing.
Now whine how you are not being treated fairly after you accuse others of lying when it is you who are so wrong and clueless.
(http://s28.postimg.org/hfod67vzh/labexamrecorddrh7.jpg)
i think its pretty clear now holly.explained beautifully once again by master Scipio usmc 8@??)(
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Scipio, it is obviously straight-forward to identify bullets removed from victims by the pathologist at autopsy. It is far less straight-forward to identify which bullets relate to which victims where the bullets have exited. Were the exited bullets forensicially analysed for biological matter? Not that I am aware of.
All that matters is the fact that only 3 bullets exited June so only 3 of the 4 bullets recovered in the bedroom could be related to the shots fired to June. Only someone who has an IQ under 70 can't understand such.
Nevill suffered a graze wound. The bullet didn't enter his body so there should have been a 4th loose bullet in the room and there was. It makes no difference which of the 3 specifically relate to June and which is the one that relates to Nevill all that matters is that it is an irrefutable fact that only 3 relate to June and 1 relates to Nevill.
You dishonestly want to IGNORE the medical records and go with an erroneous statement written on a diagram BEFORE police knew that June only suffered 3 exit wounds so the 4th bullet had to relate to Nevill. All that does is demonstrate you to be an untrustworthy clown. A claim on a diagram can't refute medical evidence.
It seems a given that DRH/35 x 2 relate to June since they were found embedded in the pillow she was using. DRH/9 appears to also relate to June. I don't accept DRH/5 necessarily relates to the graze wound NB sustained. Fragments were seen radiologically but not at post mortem. Dr Vanezis has suggested the reason for this is that the fragments were in clothing. Therefore it is possible the non-fragmented part of the bullet could have lodged in NB's pyjamas and lost at various stages. If it was difficult to determine visually whether the exited bullets were whole or fragmented then I would expect that to be determined by weight. Were they weighed?
Of course they were weighed. All 4 are so large and heavy that they can't be part of any fragments recovered by Vanezis. The 4 fragments recovered at autopsy are the bulk of 4 individual bullets. The 4 loose ones are the bulk of 4 individual bullets. The ONLY way that all 8 could relate to June would be if June had suffered 8 gunshot wounds not 7.
Nevill's xray showed very tiny particles in his side area. These particles were WAY TO SMALL to be more than a quarter of a bullet and clearly were less than that. Because they were so small they were not able to be found.
DRH/5 weighed 37 grains so 92.5% of a complete bullet if they were 40 grain rounds or 98.6% if they were 37.5 grain rounds. Eley markerted 37.5 and 40 grain rounds and nothing has been presented on Blue which shows which is what Nevill purchased. Either way there was less than 10% of the round missing.
DRH/9 weighed 25.8 grains so either .645 if 40 grain or .688 if 37.5 grain rounds. Either way it is more than 2/3s of a complete round.
The bullets removed at autopsy weighed 2.29 grams, 2.42 grams, 1.79 grams and 1.77 grams. If 40 grain then the complete bullets weighed 2.59 grams. So if 40 grain then he recovered more than 86% of each the bullets recovered from her chest, 69 percent of the bullet between her eyes and 68 percent of the bullet that entered above her right ear.
June's wound '2' is unclear from the autopsy report in that fragments were identified at autopsy but no exit wound.
Wound 2 is the wound above her right ear. There is nothing unclear, he recovered PV/26 from this wound. PV/26 weighed 1.77 grams so at minimum 68% of the original bullet. The remaining amount broke off into small parts that he could not recover.
As I pointed out previously the diagram layout of the casings identifies bullet DRH/35 x2, DRH/9 and DRH/5 as all pertaining to June.
And as I pointed out that diagram was prepared before they knew that June only suffered 3 exit wounds and that Nevill suffered a graze wound thus before they were told by the experts that one of these bullets related to a graze wound Nevill suffered.
You keep humiliating yourself by saying we have to stick with the diagram though the experts stopped maintaining such and maintained at trial that one of the loose bullets pertained to Nevill's graze wound which the defense failed to challenge because they had no way to do so. Only a moron would claim June suffered 7 wounds but was struck by 8 bullets.
In the meantime you keep ignoring that the diagram states 13 bullets were found in the bedroom and lists all 13. It also lists DRH/14 and asserts it relates to a shot to June. They asserted on the diagram that 2 casings from the bedroom related to Sheila, that 1 case from the bedroom (DRH/13 and the case on the landing related to June's second episode. It asserted the remaining 10 cases found in the bedroom related to the first episode where June and Nevill were shot. You are not only wrong you are not even consistent you ignore anything you feel like and just make up whatever you feel like.
You want to live by the diagram so here is the diagram assertions about the casings:
(http://s21.postimg.org/zaskdqvvb/diagramcasesassessment.jpg)
Bottom line is excl the two casings to SC there were 9 casings in the main bedroom, 1 on the transition strip and 1 on the landing which supports my theory that NB did not sustain any gunshot wounds in the main bedroom.
First of all, how could 25 shots be fired by 24 casings? The number of bullets and casings has to match. You keep eliminating a casing yet keeping 25 shots fired. That alone should tell you that you ar enot making any sense.
Seocnd the casing against the transition strip was in the bedroom genius. Counting that casing there were 13 total in the bedroom. The diagram you keep making such a big deal out of lists 13 casings found in the bedroom these 13 cases:
1) DRH/1 right side of Sheila's body
2) DRH/2 Left hand side of Sheila's body
3) DRH/3 on the floor inside the door of the main bedroom to the left of June's body.
4) DRH/4 next to DRH/3
5) DRH/6 top of quit right hand side of the bed
6) DRH/7a under wardrobe
7) DRH/7b under wardrobe
8) DRH/8 left hand side of bed 4inches from the pillow
9) DRH/10 on the quilt right hand side of the bed on floor.
10) DRH/11 right hand side of bed on the floor near the wardrobe
11) DRH/12 on the floor right hand side of the bed
12) DRH/13 metal strip of doorway
13) DRH/43 under the wardrobe right hand side of bed
(http://s21.postimg.org/zaskdqvvb/diagramcasesassessment.jpg)
You keep ignoring reality on how many cases were found in the bedroom and pretending that 8 bullets caused June's 7 wounds so you can pretend that the graze wound Nevill suffered was not suffered in the bedroom all so you can pretend Nevill wasn't shot in the bedroom. It's bad enough you keep trying to pretend he wasn't shot in the bedroom but worse you keep telling us he was shot on the stairs though it is physically impossible for him to have been shot on the stairs because the ONLY WAY to achieve the trajectories of the wounds if he had been on the stairs would be by firing through the wall. One has to be a blathering idiot to buy the nonsense you post.
NB sustained the gunshot wounds to his lip and jaw whilst he was stood on the two stairs immediately preceding the main entrance with the perp stood within the doorway. Casing DRH/3 and DRH/4 pertain to these wounds.
It's physically impossible to hit his lip and jaw at the angle and trajectory they were hit from the doorway. So your theory is impossible. If Nevill were on the stairs the wounds could only be delivered if fired through the wall. In the meantime firing from the doorway would result in the casings flying near the chair. You want us to believe they simply fell underneath the gun as if they simply dropped out of the bottom of the weapon. But why bother you with reality when you couldn't care less about facts and just make up anything you feel like.
NB sustained the gunshot wounds to his shoulder and elbow whilst he was on the main staircase with the perp behind him. Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 pertain to these wounds. It is entirely plausible. I have recently stated in another thread that exact measurements using lasers need to be taken from WHF taking into account all features such as door width, depth of stairs, width of spindles, including gaps between, and height of banisters. I am afraid you will not convince me otherwise using marker pens on the diagram below.
It's physically impossible to hit his shoulder and graze his arm and chest from the doorway if he were on the stairs. The killer had to be facing his left profile. The only way to hit him at the angles in question would be to shoot through the wall. You just keep embarrassing yourself by positing impossible nonsense. In the meantime DRH/13 pertains to the shot between June's eyes. That was the assessment even on the diagram you place so much stock in. That diagram assessed DRH/14 was related to the shot to her head assuming the killer was in the hallway with the weapon's eject port facing the stairs when it was fired but after learning it was fired while she was in bed and learning about a casing missing from the kitchen decided DRH/14 was transferred from the kitchen.
A police officer did not transfer casing DRH/14 from the kitchen to the landing under his foot. Impossible. NB and June were shot a total of 11 times upstairs if DRH/14 was transferred from the kitchen then a casing is missing from upstairs.
Impossible because you say so? You are always wrong so your opinion means absolutely nothing. You are so hapless you keep telling us Nevill was shot on the stairs though it is physically impossible unless he were shot through the wall and keep telling us that 8 bullets caused June's 7 bullet wounds in order to pretend that the bullet that grazed Nevill wasn't in the bedroom. You even keep insisting there were only 24 casings found at WHF though you concede 25 shots were fired. You make up your own rules out of thin air and your made up rules bear no relation to reality. You make up there were 24 casings for no rational reason and keep denying irrefutable evidence that DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings. That just renders you a joke.
25 casings total were recovered in the house. 3 in the kitchen, 1 on the landing, 13 in the master bedroom and 8 in the room the twins were shot in.
The victims suffered 25 gunshot wounds so the casings from all 25 gunshot wounds were recovered.
Nevill was shot 4 times in the kitchen but only 3 casings were found in the kitchen so 1 casing was missing.
June was shot 7 times in the master bedroom and Sheila was shot 2 times in the master bedroom. That adds up to 9 but there were 13 found in the master bedroom so 4 more shots were fired in the master bedroom. Nevill was shot 4 other times so clearly these relate to Nevill being shot.
4 bullets lodged inside June and were removed at autopsy. 3 bullets exited June so were in the house somewhere.
7 bullets lodged inside Nevill and were removed at autopsy. 1 bullet grazed Nevill so was in the house somewhere.
4 loose bullets were found in the bedroom. 3 related to June and the 4th to Nevill.
All 13 casings associated with the master bedroom shootings were accounted for.
All 8 casings associated with the shooting of the twins were found in their bedroom thus accounted for.
The only missing case was from the kitchen so we know that DRH/14 was transferred from the kitchen.
Whether it stuck to Jeremy's shoe or a cops shoe there is no way to know. It is not only possible but a fact that it stuck to a shoe of Jeremy or a cop because at the time it was found only the killer and cops had passed from the kitchen to where it was found.
Your claims are all impossible nonsense that ignores reality.
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Nevill's 4 shots received to his left side were all fired at his side profile. The shooter fired into the left side of his jaw while the killer was facing the side of his jaw but Nevill was looking straight ahead. The same is true of the other shots. nevill's arm was raised so that the bullet grazed the back of his arm and then grazer across his chest. The lip shot came from the side slightly and slightly from the front. The shoulder shot cam slightly from the side but slightly behind. None of these shots could be achieved unless the killer and Nevill were like this:
left front
Killer Back-Front Nevill left-right
right back
How could the killer and Nevill be in such positions while Nevill was on the stairs? With Nevill on the stairs the shooter would have to fire through the wall to be able to achieve such shots.
This shows the angle of shots that could be achieved from shooting from right inside the doorway. The wall blocks the ability to target the left side of someone who is on the stairs. Holly's suggestions are ludicrous.
(http://s21.postimg.org/ddeamq8gn/masterbedroom1.jpg)
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Do you know how to count Holly? June was shot 7 times. She suffered 3 exit wounds which means 3 bullets exited her body. Fragments from 4 different bullets were removed from June's body. 4 plus 3=7. To anyone who can count and comprehends that there were only 3 exit wounds comprehends that only 3 of the 4 fragments recovered from the master bedroom were associated with her 3 exit wounds. The 4th (most likely DRH/5) was associated with Nevill's graze wound.
Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20
Nevill
1) PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
2) PV/9 slightly above wound 1
3) PV/3 top of skull
4) PV/4 top of skull
5) PV/10 (lip)
6) PV/11 (jaw)
7)PV/2 (Shoulder)
8)DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)
Wounds 1-4 were received in the kitchen, wounds 5-8 in the master bedroom. DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom.
June
1) PV/25 between eyes
2) PV/26 above right ear
3) DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
4) DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
5) PV/24 right upper chest
6) PV/23 lower chest
7) DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)
There was 1 casing on the landing and it was in the corner directly against the wall. That casing was transported from the kitchen and was kicked off of the shoe it attached to thus landing right against the wall. DRH/13 was just inside the bedroom doorway touching the metal transition plate. Not only did the ballistic expert state such so did Hammersley in his report:
(http://s8.postimg.org/4f9off48l/hammersleyreport.jpg)
and trial testimony:
(http://s29.postimg.org/jsi1pwwnr/hammersleytestimony.jpg)
13 casings were found in the master bedroom. 1 on the landing (which was assocated with a shot fired in the kitchen), 3 in the kitchen and 8 in the boys room.
Exhibit DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings not one just like DRH/35 consisted of 2 bullets not one. So you start right off the bat with an error.
DRH/14 is the missing casing from the kitchen. It either stuck to the killer's shoe or a cop's shoe and was kicked off while on the landing resulting in it ending up in a corner right against the wall. It was right in the area where the wall meets the floor of the landing.
13 casings were in the master bedroom. DRH/1 &2 were associated with Sheila's wounds. The remaining 11- DRH: 3, 4, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 43 were associated with the 11 wounds June and Nevill suffered in the bedroom. DRH/3 and 4 were most likely associated with the 2 chest shots to June which she received as she was getting out of bed. DRH/13 is associated with the shot between her eyes and DRH/8 associated with a shot to Nevill.
6, 7a, 7b, 10, 11, 12 and 43 are associated with the remaining 3 shots to Nevill and 4 shots June suffered while lying in bed. Since they are all in the same vicinity there is no way to try to separate them out. DRH/8 was on the bed thus landed on top of June. That could only happen if the gun were being aimed at Nevill's side of the bed so we know it pertains to a shot fired at Nevill. The other 3 casings from Nevill's shots either bounced off the bed as she was kicking the covers or fell off when she got up. There is no sure way to separate out which 3 bounced/fell off from the 4 that were associated with her being shot in bed since they were all in the same area. One could be simplistic and say the 3 on the floor closest to the bed were associated with the shots to Nevill and other 4 to June but that might not be the case.
Very well explained Scipio. I went into this in detail some time ago and came to the same conclusions. As with most things in this case it is a matter of common sense.
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The Jeremy Bamber forum AKA blue forum has many primary documents which are conveniently indexed in the archive section. It is worth registering there in order to be able to read such documents. Many of the claims made there consist of lies and nonsense, particularly from Mike T and his fans but if you ignore such and read the materials you will be able to get a strong understanding. I have explored all the supporter claims particularly the most damning ones to see if there is any truth to their allegations. Upon scrutiny they all fall apart. The stuff that really attracts you to this case- the claims of police switching moderators, moving bodies around, shooting the victims etc all turned out to be utter bunk. When all that crap is stripped away it is a pretty mundane case. The notion police concealed receiving a phone call from Nevill particularly intrigued me. I thought maybe they were railroading Jeremy. But after I found out the frivolous basis of such allegations and the others it became clear that supporters like Mike and the Campaign Team are out to distort and play games for their own purposes simply.
I agree, strip away the silly conspiracy theories and the case is relatively simple. A psychopathic adopted son full of hate and driven by greed, it was always going to end badly.
As far as the topic heading is concerned, had Nevill been shot on the landing outside the master bedroom then all the empty shell casdings would have ended up on the landing or the stairs and not in the bedroom itself.
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Scipio if you persist with this notion that casing DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings then you deserve to be lumped together with Mike, JB and the CT. Claiming DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings is on par with the aforementioned claiming 2 dead bodies in the kitchen and 2 telephone calls.
Worse still you attempt to liken the two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 to the one casing with exhibit label DRH/7. There is no comparison. The reason there are two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 is that the bullets were embedded in the pillow unbeknown to SoC officers. When the pillow arrived at the lab for forensic analysis the two bullets were identified and hence the two bullets found by FSS simply retained the exhibit label DRH/35 which pertains to the pillow. SoC officers identified DRH/7 at the SoC. It becomes plainly obvious DRH/7 relates to one casing from DC Hammersley's trial testimony. Where two casings are referred to simply relates to the fact that two casings were found under the wardrobe DRH/7 and DRH/43 and two casings can be seen in crime scene photo 40.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=219
The above can all be evidenced by crime scene photo 40: One casing DRH/7 and one casing DRH/43: two cases found under the wardrobe.
Holly, it is clearly stated in the original forensics report that DRH/7 relates to cases, plural.
(http://i.imgur.com/SAXWlML.jpg)
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I agree, strip away the silly conspiracy theories and the case is relatively simple. A psychopathic adopted son full of hate and driven by greed, it was always going to end badly.
As far as the topic heading is concerned, had Nevill been shot on the landing outside the master bedroom then all the empty shell casdings would have ended up on the landing or the stairs and not in the bedroom itself.
If Nevill were shot while on the stairs while the killer was in the hall then the casing would have gone down the stairs or in the hall near Sheila's door. If firing from in the bedroom at someone on the stairs then the casings would have gone in the room by the chair. but the casing location is less significant than the fact that it is not possible for Nevill to be shot on the stairs at the angles/locations where he was shot. The fact it is impossible for him to be shot at such locations tells us tha tit is impossible for him to be shot on the stairs. SO there is no need to even look at the location of the casings.
Nevill was neither shot from the front nor the back he was shot to his side profile. Unless someone is firing though the wall he can't be shot in such manner while on the stairs. Since the shots did not pass through the wall we know this didn't happen.
Holly devotes a great deal of time to distorting the casing evidence in order to assert the impossible happened.
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I agree, strip away the silly conspiracy theories and the case is relatively simple. A psychopathic adopted son full of hate and driven by greed, it was always going to end badly.
As far as the topic heading is concerned, had Nevill been shot on the landing outside the master bedroom then all the empty shell casdings would have ended up on the landing or the stairs and not in the bedroom itself.
It's a high profile case where the police changed stance after one month and the only other suspect can't speak.
Bamber reached the point of no return quickly. And he is much too arrogant to admit guilt and say his plan failed. At just 25 upon conviction, a release on a technicality, even if it took ten years was worth going for. He failed to get this, but got so used to trying he just continued, cheered on by a few supporters.
It is a straight forward case.
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John/Scipio
No I disagree entirely. We know for a fact the standard of communication/paperwork is poor. Hence:-
- In communication with someone in WHF
- Two dead bodies [in kitchen] 1 x dead male 1 x dead female
- Two tel calls which give the impression they are from two different callers: JB and NB
Taken at face value the above appear to exonerate JB but delve a little deeper and it appears they are little more than ambiguities/genuine errors in paperwork.
However I have a deep sense of unease with regard to DRH/7, DRH/14 and the exited bullets on par with the silencer:
DRH/7
1. Who was responsible for drawing up the diagram below?
2. Why would two separate casings be given the same unique number?
3. Why does the general examination record refer to two casings DRH/7 labelled A and B "for convenience"?
4. Why does the above document state "P'king (packaging I assume) has been cut open and stapled closed at some time"
5. At trail no reference is made of DRH/7 A and DRH/7 B. Simply DRH/7. Crime scene photographs 40 and 41 are referred to. It is somewhat ambiguous in that DRH/7 and DRH/43 were found under the wardrobe. My interpretation of the testimony is that it is referring to two casings under the wardrobe DRH/7 and DRH/43 and there's no second DRH/7 or DRH/7 A and DRH/7 B?
DRH/14
It is claimed this casing found on the landing was there as a result of a police officer transferring it from the kitchen under his boot.
1. Was this casing forensically analysed in an attempt to find any evidence to support this? Along with boots from police officers and JB's footwear eg to look for indentations?
2. The casing was found against a wall which seems a strange location if it was transferred to that location by way of a boot?
3. The diagram questions whether this pertained to a wound sustained by June? (If we are to accept the diagram has two casings DRH/7 this equates to a total of 12 casings for NB and June (NB shot 4 x's upstairs; June shot 7 times).
Exited Bullets
June sustained 7 gunshot wounds. 3 bullets exited, 3 were recovered at autopsy along with fragments associated with another gunshot wound.
1. The diagram below states the following bullets all pertain to wounds sustained by June?
DRH/5
DRH/9
DRH/35 x 2
Scipio claims in post #110:
And as I pointed out that diagram was prepared before they knew that June only suffered 3 exit wounds and that Nevill suffered a graze wound thus before they were told by the experts that one of these bullets related to a graze wound Nevill suffered.
You keep humiliating yourself by saying we have to stick with the diagram though the experts stopped maintaining such and maintained at trial that one of the loose bullets pertained to Nevill's graze wound which the defense failed to challenge because they had no way to do so. Only a moron would claim June suffered 7 wounds but was struck by 8 bullets.
And yet DC Hammersley was one of 4 officers who attended the complete post mortems on 7th and 8th August. We know the diagram was drawn up after 8th August as casing DRH/43 was not found until 9th August. We also know on 8th August, after the last post mortem, Dr Vanezis attended WHF with all four officers who attended post mortem. This being the case how did they make so many howlers in the diagram?
(For the record Scipio I have never claimed June was struck by 8 bullets).
The following docs have been uploaded to support the above:
1. Casing layout diagram - casings in main bedroom.
2. General Examination Record - DRH/7
3. Autopsy report - June's GSW '2' which refers to fragments. Dr Vanezis does not make reference to fragments associated with any of June's other wounds.
4. Trial testimony - casing DRH/7 and DRH/43
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As it stands I still support my theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom with the perp stood within the doorway including casing ejection port with the barrel extending onto landing where NB sustained the GSW's to his lip and jaw as evidenced by casings DRH/3 and DRH/4.
NB turned to flee and was then on the main staircase facing down towards the hall with the perp behind him where he sustained the GSW's to the back of his elbow and shoulder as evidenced by casing DRH/13 and DRH/14.
There is nothing that makes this theory implausible. Scipio's claims that it isn't possible to shoot through walls (no bullet holes found in walls) are in fact correct. However my theory doesn't require shots through walls. It is clear from diagrams and SoC photos my theory is entirely plausible.
There is nothing in Scipio's claims that diminishes my theory in any shape or form.
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Regarding DRH13 and DRH14 attributed to June? - it seems feasible that both could have been fired by the perp standing in the area of the black spot near the capital D in diagram below, with the rifle pointing down at June's head. The impact of the two shells ejecting downwards and to the right was cushioned by the carpet, resulting in DRH13 coming to rest on the doorway metal strip and DRH14 tumbling down alongside the skirting to the lower landing. Rather than the latter being carried up jammed in and released, from a boot sole or from a stovepipe blockage in the rifle.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Regarding DRH13 and DRH14 attributed to June? - it seems feasible that both could have been fired by the perp standing in the area of the black spot near the capital D in diagram below, with the rifle pointing down at June's head. The impact of the two shells ejecting downwards and to the right was cushioned by the carpet, resulting in DRH13 coming to rest on the doorway metal strip and DRH14 tumbling down alongside the skirting to the lower landing. Rather than the latter being carried up jammed in and released, from a boot sole or from a stovepipe blockage in the rifle.
I don't think so as it wouldn't fit with the tracts and trajectories of June's wounds?
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I don't think so as it wouldn't fit with the tracts and trajectories of June's wounds?
Why not? One wound between her eyes just above the nose, the other above her right ear... not much different to the way her head was positioned when discovered (1 & 2).
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=684;image)
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=686;image)
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Why not? One wound between her eyes just above the nose, the other above her right ear... not much different to the way her head was positioned when discovered (1 & 2).
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=684;image)
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=686;image)
I believe the GSW to the ear was sustained while June was in bed but I can't be sure of that.
Where Dr Vanezis refers to "the track of the wound..." I think from this a pathologist will be able to determine for example whether the perp fired a shot from position D, as you have suggested, which would also mean the casing ejection port is on the landing with the barrel pointing inside the bedroom thus allowing DRH/14 to eject along the landing and land against the wall compared with shots fired by rotating the perp and rifle 180 degrees? Am I making sense and have I understood you correctly?
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I don't think so as it wouldn't fit with the tracts and trajectories of June's wounds?
Wrong as always. The shot between her eyes was indeed delivered in such position and that is why never waivered and continued to assert DRH/13 was the casing associated with such shot.
While the right side head shot could have been delivered while she was on the floor based on trajectory, the blood evidence on June's pillow proved she suffered this shot while she was lying down in bed. Thus they had to face she was shot in the head while in bed and their theory that this shot was fired while the killer stood in the hall with the weapon's ejection port facing the stairs no longer applied. Thus they no longer asserted DRH/14 was associated with such shot. Vanezis assessed that Nevill was shot all 4 times in the skull while in the kitchen. One kitchen casing was unaccounted for so they realized DRH/14 was accidentally transported from the kitchen by either the killer or raid team members.
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If June was shot above the right ear whilst her head was resting on the pillow, where has all the blood on that pillow come from?
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If June was shot above the right ear whilst her head was resting on the pillow, where has all the blood on that pillow come from?
I assume you meant to say "if June wasn't shot" while her head was on the pillow how did her blood get there. I just want to be sure.
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I assume you meant to say "if June wasn't shot" while her head was on the pillow how did her blood get there. I just want to be sure.
I meant was.
June must have been lying down on her left side, or sat up facing the wardrobe with her legs outside the bed for her to have received a shot just above the right ear. Vanezis didn't report any exit wound on the left side for that bullet. There's a large blood stain on the pillow, which means that her head must have been stationary on it for a period while blood drained from a (left-sided?) head wound. Also, there doesn't appear to be any smearing on the right side of her face (in the doorway photo) which I would have expected had that side been in contact with the pillow blood stain. The stain also appears too high up on the pillow for the blood to have come from the neck wound? The question is... after receiving such a devastating shot which caused cerebral bruising, haemorrhaging and brain disruption, how come she was able to wander about the bedroom for a period as evidenced by the large amount of blood staining on her nightie from her other wounds and the numerous spots which dripped onto the carpet?
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I meant was.
June must have been lying down on her left side, or sat up facing the wardrobe with her legs outside the bed for her to have received a shot just above the right ear. Vanezis didn't report any exit wound on the left side for that bullet. There's a large blood stain on the pillow, which means that her head must have been stationary on it for a period while blood drained from a (left-sided?) head wound. Also, there doesn't appear to be any smearing on the right side of her face (in the doorway photo) which I would have expected had that side been in contact with the pillow blood stain. The stain also appears too high up on the pillow for the blood to have come from the neck wound? The question is... after receiving such a devastating shot which caused cerebral bruising, haemorrhaging and brain disruption, how come she was able to wander about the bedroom for a period as evidenced by the large amount of blood staining on her nightie from her other wounds and the numerous spots which dripped onto the carpet?
The killer was at the foot of the bed in either the center or partially in front of Nevill when firing at June.
If you consider such position then you will see why the shots were hitting June's right side. With her lying on her back he was to her right. That is why the blood is on the right side of the pillow from her perspective. Looking at it from ours it is to the left but that is where the right side of her head was.
Shooting at her from the foot of the bed not only results in her right side being targeted but also would result in the casings landing in the upper corner of the room next to her side of the bed which is where they were found.
After some shots were fired at her the killer stayed near the foot of the bed but turned towards Nevill as he was sitting up or getting out of bed. He may have moved further toward's June's side to try to angle his shots better. That resulted in the shots coming to Nevill's left side and the casings would land either on June's side of the bed or the corner next to June's bed.
The 2 casings associated with June's chest shots are further towards the door rather than in the corner which suggests she was getting out of bed when shot. By her body being a foot over from where it was the killer had to aim the gun more towards the door which in turn caused the casings to fall closer to the door instead of up in the corner.
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I'm not even remotely a competent artist so ignore the pathetic nature of June's body you are lucky it is not a stick figure.
The killer was standing around the K. The lines mark the trajectory of the bullets and show where the rifle was generally pointed for each shot. The reason the neck wound is in purple is because if red you would not see it because of the overlap over the other lines.
The yellow lines show where the casings would go from shots fired in such locations. You can see that the casings line up with where they were found.
The 2 chest wounds are the ones delivered when June was getting out of bed or entirely out of bed. Because she was getting out of bed her body was much further towards the door than when she was lying in bed. The killer had to turn to the right to aim at her and in turn this caused the shell casings to fall further to the right instead of with the others in the corner next to the bed.
As she was getting out of bed her right side was facing the killer hence the chest wounds also came to her right side. This is why all these entrance wounds are to her right side.
As I stated on blue many times, I personally believe that after emptying the gun and seeing that Nevill was coming after him that he fled to get more bullets. At that point June either walked around the bed to try to aid Nevill and walked back with him to the door but collapsed or after Nevill left to pursue Jeremy she walked around the bed for some unknown reason perhaps because she was in a daze then turned around and collapsed on her way to the door. Nevill in the meantime either walked towards Sheila's door and tried to speak to her but was unable to speak and thereby dripped blood on the carpet or he simply went down stairs as fast as he could and caught up with Jeremy in the kitchen as he was trying to load the magazine and tried to grab the weapon then Jeremy grabbed it back and they struggled and upon taking full sole control Jeremy then beat him with it until he was unconscious then reloaded in peace and shot him killing him. Then upon going upstairs he shot the boys then went back to the other wing and if Nevill didn't drip the blood near her door before going downstairs then it dripped off the weapon or Jeremy's gloves on his way to get Sheila. Either before he got Sheila or after he killed Sheila he fired a shot between June's eyes to make sure she was dead.
Nevill could not move that fast he was even bouncing against the walls as he was moving. Even if he managed to bolt past Jeremy somehow as they fought in the bedroom, Jeremy should have been able to catch Nevill before he reached the kitchen. So it seems more likely to me that Nevill chased Jeremy to stop him from reloading and to try to subdue him. I have been stabbed before. I was furious and went into a rage with adrenaline pumping. Between seeing his wife shot and being shot himself I am sure Nevill wanted to rip his head off. Jeremy was very lucky that Nevill's arm was broken or the outcome might have been very different.
(http://s29.postimg.org/et5enxe0n/masterbedroomjuneshot.jpg)
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As for Nevill, with Nevill seated on the side of the bed like this in order to get up what faces the killer? His left profile which happens to be where all 4 shots he suffered in the bedroom came from. All 4 shots were to his left profile.
(http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/96175509-patient-sits-on-edge-of-bed-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=9T54T7IATOmI%2FDZNsG4%2B%2BH%2BZpaorvEQLi1DV8rT3glTpC618lSH0sV7ugECL8yA0)
The killer could be in the same location as where June's shots were fired from or a little bit further towards June's side of the bed. What is clear is the killer was at the foot of the bed when shooting both of them. The exact position at the foot of the bed can vary.
If Nevill sat up in bed so was looking towards the foot of the bed then the killer had to be further towards June's side of the bed to be able to target him in the areas he was hit. After shooting June Jeremy could have moved a little closer to the door then shot Nevill. It could be a mix where he shot Nevill sitting up then as Nevill turned to get up Jeremy moved closer to shoot him some more. What is obvious as day is that Nevill began to turn to get up and then the shot to his shoulder was fired. Though it was to his left profile it was a little behind Nevill so it means he could not simply have been sitting up in bed facing the headboard he had to have begun to move to get up.
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As for Nevill, with Nevill seated on the side of the bed like this in order to get up what faces the killer? His left profile which happens to be where all 4 shots he suffered in the bedroom came from. All 4 shots were to his left profile.
(http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/96175509-patient-sits-on-edge-of-bed-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=9T54T7IATOmI%2FDZNsG4%2B%2BH%2BZpaorvEQLi1DV8rT3glTpC618lSH0sV7ugECL8yA0)
The killer could be in the same location as where June's shots were fired from or a little bit further towards June's side of the bed. What is clear is the killer was at the foot of the bed when shooting both of them. The exact position at the foot of the bed can vary.
If Nevill sat up in bed so was looking towards the foot of the bed then the killer had to be further towards June's side of the bed to be able to target him in the areas he was hit. After shooting June Jeremy could have moved a little closer to the door then shot Nevill. It could be a mix where he shot Nevill sitting up then as Nevill turned to get up Jeremy moved closer to shoot him some more. What is obvious as day is that Nevill began to turn to get up and then the shot to his shoulder was fired. Though it was to his left profile it was a little behind Nevill so it means he could not simply have been sitting up in bed facing the headboard he had to have begun to move to get up.
I've been meaning to get back to you on this but with Christmas and New Yr have been quite busy.
You seem to be implying that the lip and jaw gun shot wound (gsw) NB sustained entered via his side and yet the tracts of the wounds and location of the bullets show that the following were injured which is difficult to reconcile if the shots entered sideways unless the two bullets took a sharp turn:
- cervical musculature
- cervical vertebra
- laryngeal
- submandibular
My interpretation is that where Dr Vanezis refers to "left side of the lower lip" and "left lower jaw" this in no way indicates the shots entered sideways. They were face on.
The same applies to the shoulder and elbow shot. If you follow the tract wounds and final resting place of the bullet the wounds are to the back of his left shoulder and elbow. I dont believe they entered sideways.
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I'm not even remotely a competent artist so ignore the pathetic nature of June's body you are lucky it is not a stick figure.
The killer was standing around the K. The lines mark the trajectory of the bullets and show where the rifle was generally pointed for each shot. The reason the neck wound is in purple is because if red you would not see it because of the overlap over the other lines.
The yellow lines show where the casings would go from shots fired in such locations. You can see that the casings line up with where they were found.
The 2 chest wounds are the ones delivered when June was getting out of bed or entirely out of bed. Because she was getting out of bed her body was much further towards the door than when she was lying in bed. The killer had to turn to the right to aim at her and in turn this caused the shell casings to fall further to the right instead of with the others in the corner next to the bed.
As she was getting out of bed her right side was facing the killer hence the chest wounds also came to her right side. This is why all these entrance wounds are to her right side.
As I stated on blue many times, I personally believe that after emptying the gun and seeing that Nevill was coming after him that he fled to get more bullets. At that point June either walked around the bed to try to aid Nevill and walked back with him to the door but collapsed or after Nevill left to pursue Jeremy she walked around the bed for some unknown reason perhaps because she was in a daze then turned around and collapsed on her way to the door. Nevill in the meantime either walked towards Sheila's door and tried to speak to her but was unable to speak and thereby dripped blood on the carpet or he simply went down stairs as fast as he could and caught up with Jeremy in the kitchen as he was trying to load the magazine and tried to grab the weapon then Jeremy grabbed it back and they struggled and upon taking full sole control Jeremy then beat him with it until he was unconscious then reloaded in peace and shot him killing him. Then upon going upstairs he shot the boys then went back to the other wing and if Nevill didn't drip the blood near her door before going downstairs then it dripped off the weapon or Jeremy's gloves on his way to get Sheila. Either before he got Sheila or after he killed Sheila he fired a shot between June's eyes to make sure she was dead.
Nevill could not move that fast he was even bouncing against the walls as he was moving. Even if he managed to bolt past Jeremy somehow as they fought in the bedroom, Jeremy should have been able to catch Nevill before he reached the kitchen. So it seems more likely to me that Nevill chased Jeremy to stop him from reloading and to try to subdue him. I have been stabbed before. I was furious and went into a rage with adrenaline pumping. Between seeing his wife shot and being shot himself I am sure Nevill wanted to rip his head off. Jeremy was very lucky that Nevill's arm was broken or the outcome might have been very different.
(http://s29.postimg.org/et5enxe0n/masterbedroomjuneshot.jpg)
If NB needed June to aid him in walking how did he enter into a "violent struggle" with JB in the kitchen?
If the rifle had blood dripping from it why were the scientists unable to recover sufficient blood for grouping? And why didn't it leave any marks on SC's nightdress? The photo of the rifle resting on SC doesn't show any visible blood?
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I think June was having enough problems walking on her own to bother about supporting Nevill.
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If NB needed June to aid him in walking how did he enter into a "violent struggle" with JB in the kitchen?
If the rifle had blood dripping from it why were the scientists unable to recover sufficient blood for grouping? And why didn't it leave any marks on SC's nightdress? The photo of the rifle resting on SC doesn't show any visible blood?
1) He didn't need June to aid him to walk but she may have tried to walk over to him to check him out or even to try running to him for comfort. She could have walked to that side after Jeremy and Nevill both left already there is no way to know.
2) The blood on the rifle was already dry by the time the rifle was placed on Sheila. The blood was spatter it wasn't that big so didn't take that long to try. You would need to look very close up to notice it and we don't have nice detailed photos of the rifle. Some of it certainly rubbed off on Jeremy but Jeremy would have been hit with the spatter directly anyway.
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No way did Sheila and Nevill switch places. Caroline and the others on blue who came up with such are simply being ridiculous. What grown woman sleeps in their mother's bed and kicks their father to another bed unless the mother is physically ill and needs care so staying all night permits such or the mother is pissed off at her husband and refuses to let him sleep with her and there are not enough beds in the house for both the daughter and husband to sleep elsewhere so the daughter sleeps with the mother to allow her father to still have a place to sleep. Jeremy's former room had another bed so there was no such need.
Common sense is ignored to pretend a grown woman would need to sleep with a mother she was not close to and the entire premise is woven around the claim that the slippers in Sheila's room must be Nevill's even though neither police nor Eaton say they were man's slippers and there are women's slippers that look like that.
There is no question at all that the bullet that grazed Nevill as well as 4 casings associated with shots fired at Nevill were found in the master bedroom. He was shot in there. The location of those casings support him being shot while near his side of the bed. The gun had to be facing in when fired because if fired with the gun facing the door then the ejection port would have ejected the cases along the wall that had the window. The trajectory of at least 2 shots supports he was seated in bed/on the bed when shot. The trajectory of all 4 of these shots featured Nevill's left profile facing the killer not his front as would be the case if he was shot after walking in. The gun was empty and only then did things proceed to the kitchen. There is no way in hell that Jeremy would have shot June and then Nevill after he entered and run down to fight in the kitchen leaving Sheila awake in the master bedroom unscathed so she could wake up her kids and flee let alone is it credible that Sheila failed to go wake her kids and try to hide them or flee and instead just sat there in the bedroom waiting for Jeremy or Nevill to return. Either she was chased into the bedroom and trapped on the other side of the bed or Jeremy forced her there at gunpoint.
I'm going to make a compass out of Nevill he is the center. S = shoulder shot, L= lip shot, G = graze wound and J = Jaw shot.
North
J,L,G
West Nevill East
S
South
With Nevill's face facing to the North his right is to the East and his left is to the West. Note the trajectory of the shots. he killer was to Nevill's West but not straight to his West. The shoulder shot was a little Southwest. So the shooter was the the left and slightly behind Nevill. The other 3 shots were the opposite. The killer was to the left but ever so slightly in front of Nevill. Either Nevill was moving as he was being shot at, or the killer was moving, or a little of both. Nevill moving is most likely because it would explain it would explain his shots. He was moving to his right to get off the bed thus exposing his left side to the killer and also in the process of rising. Rising resulted in the killer striking him lower than the killer intended. Aiming at his head the killer hit his jaw and lip because he stood up so his jaw and lip were where his head had been at the time the killer was aiming and as he was moving right the bullets got more shallow. The jaw shot was probably first, the lip had more of an angle and the graze shot even more of an angle still much closer to 90 degrees than the others. Then after he moved so far to the right that he was Southeast of the killer instead of Northeast the 4th shot to the shoulder was fired. If Nevill had been standing upright then to hit that location the rifle would have to have been aimed up instead of down so clearly he was either sitting still or in the process of getting up and not fully upright. The killer would have to be at the foot of the bed and the casings would have to be on June's side of the bed or on the floor near June's side of the bed in the corner. 1 was on June's side of the bed and the other 3 were in the corner. So it is pretty clear Nevill was on his side of the bed when he was shot. The bullet from the graze wound had to ricochet or have been moved because there is no natural way it could get where it was found. I suppose it is possible it somehow got stuck in Nevill's gown and fell out as he walked by but I think it more likely it ricocheted there. here is no way to place Nevill's body in a location where the bullet can graze him in the manner it did and land there naturally and yet the killer to be to his Southeast.
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PC Woodcock identified the casing on the landing before it appears any officer stepped there which seems to rule out the theory this casing arrived there on the sole of an officers boot.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249
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PC Woodcock identified the casing on the landing before it appears any officer stepped there which seems to rule out the theory this casing arrived there on the sole of an officers boot.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249)
So if it was the fourth missing kitchen casing, then JB carried it up on his own shoe/boot sole (doubtful) or it was stovepipe jammed in the rifle and released by same; or it was one of two from the final bullets to be fired at June's head. I still go for either of the last two theories. Unless another TFU member preceded PC Woodcock up the stairs.
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PC Woodcock identified the casing on the landing before it appears any officer stepped there which seems to rule out the theory this casing arrived there on the sole of an officers boot.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249
Other police such as Collins preceded Woodcock. Thus it is still possible that police did it not Jeremy. Mind you Woodcock stayed there while the rest of the raid team left the scene. He could have seen it at a later time and incorrectly thought he saw it when he was going up the initial time.
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Other police such as Collins preceded Woodcock. Thus it is still possible that police did it not Jeremy. Mind you Woodcock stayed there while the rest of the raid team left the scene. He could have seen it at a later time and incorrectly thought he saw it when he was going up the initial time.
Like much of the paperwork it is somewhat ambiguous or at least that's how I find it! PC Collins states he mirrored up the stairs and identified June. Members then proceeded up the stairs and entered the main bedroom. At this time PC Woodcock states he observed a casing on the landing:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249
Yes if JB was the perp he could have carried it on the sole of his shoe.
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Yes if JB was the perp he could have carried it on the sole of his shoe.
If he wore Grensons brogues... no chance, they're smooth-bottomed.
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If he wore Grensons brogues... no chance, they're smooth-bottomed.
I heard he had a penchant for smooth-bottoms so maybe 8)-)))
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Like much of the paperwork it is somewhat ambiguous or at least that's how I find it! PC Collins states he mirrored up the stairs and identified June. Members then proceeded up the stairs and entered the main bedroom. At this time PC Woodcock states he observed a casing on the landing:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249
Yes if JB was the perp he could have carried it on the sole of his shoe.
He was on the landing where the casing was found when he saw June. that means he was there before Woodcock. We will never know if it stuck to Jeremy's shoe or a cop there is simply no way to ever figure it out. All we know for sure is it came from the kitchen and someone transported it there.
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He was on the landing where the casing was found when he saw June. that means he was there before Woodcock. We will never know if it stuck to Jeremy's shoe or a cop there is simply no way to ever figure it out. All we know for sure is it came from the kitchen and someone transported it there.
We don't know for sure. It's simply a theory.
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hi everyone iam back got fed up with the grandchildren ,and got banned from the blue forum by a very drunk mike tesko.have made some changes to my debating skills,no more 'masters' ?{)(**
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hi everyone iam back got fed up with the grandchildren ,and got banned from the blue forum by a very drunk mike tesko.have made some changes to my debating skills,no more 'masters' ?{)(**
Hello rotti... serves you right for winding him up!
As you already know, you won't find much opposition here. I can count them on the fingers of one finger.
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hi everyone iam back got fed up with the grandchildren ,and got banned from the blue forum by a very drunk mike tesko.have made some changes to my debating skills,no more 'masters' ?{)(**
Ho ho!! Mike's always either drunk, on the toilet, or drunk on the toilet. He's as mad as a sugarpuff. He'll probably unban you, then call you a c*** and a donkey turd. Be grateful that you don't live next door to him, your house would look like Coventry after a heavy night on the doodlebugs.
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Ho ho!! Mike's always either drunk, on the toilet, or drunk on the toilet. He's as mad as a sugarpuff. He'll probably unban you, then call you a c*** and a donkey turd. Be grateful that you don't live next door to him, your house would look like Coventry after a heavy night on the doodlebugs.
spot on pugs @)(++(*
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I've been meaning to get back to you on this but with Christmas and New Yr have been quite busy.
You seem to be implying that the lip and jaw gun shot wound (gsw) NB sustained entered via his side and yet the tracts of the wounds and location of the bullets show that the following were injured which is difficult to reconcile if the shots entered sideways unless the two bullets took a sharp turn:
- cervical musculature
- cervical vertebra
- laryngeal
- submandibular
My interpretation is that where Dr Vanezis refers to "left side of the lower lip" and "left lower jaw" this in no way indicates the shots entered sideways. They were face on.
The same applies to the shoulder and elbow shot. If you follow the tract wounds and final resting place of the bullet the wounds are to the back of his left shoulder and elbow. I dont believe they entered sideways.
I recently made available new material, or certainly new to me, by way of trial testimony from the following:
- Malcolm Fletcher
- John Hayward
- Glynis Howard
- Prof Knight
- Dr Vanezis
They are currently sitting in a thread but I'm going to pm Admin and ask for them to be uploaded to the relevant sections of the library: forensics and pathology. Meanwhile if anyone wants a browse some are contained in the following thread attached to posts #35, 36 and 37.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7845.msg378135#msg378135
Has anyone read these previously?
Re the above post I am now able to provide confirmation by way of Dr Vanezis' trial testimony that NB's lip and jaw gsw's were not to his side profile but to the front of his face/lip and jaw ie went straight on and backwards.
I had to suffer the embarrassment of letting my son know of my ongoing interest in JB's case by seeking his help in copying scanned docs as per the format of the attachment. I wrote it down as he explained it and I was ok first time but this one has ended up with all the surrounding bits copied! In any event the fact that I have mastered this is in itself a miracle!
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This is saying the entrance wounds were not on the side of the face. The trajectory of the wounds was not straight front to back but relatively straight merely. The bullets traveled down and slightly towards the right. They were not that steep an angle but still were left to right and down.
If someone is standing at the foot of the bed and is aiming the gun at Nevill as he sit up then you get the angle of the shots. The angle of the shots can't be achieved while Nevill is standing unless someone is at a higher elevation.
Here are the locations of the entrance wounds:
(https://s27.postimg.org/5xbv8ysw3/headskull.jpg)
Jaw wound:
Path of bullets: were slightly to the right and down ending up by the third vertebrae
This shows the path and while it might look steep the trajectory is actually not that steep. The distance is not that great.
(https://s29.postimg.org/lkbkr1s07/head.jpg)
If Nevill were standing then the trajectory would have been up instead of down. Likewise is Nevill had been lying down the trajectory would be up instead of down. He had to be sitting up in bed when he was shot.
The locations of the spent casings is consistent with him being shot while seated in bed.
Aside from the casings not being consistent with him being shot while walking up the stairs (the casings eject to the right of the weapon so would end up at the bottom of the stairs) the angle of the shots is not consistent.
If Nevill were on the stairs the further down he is the more steep the angle of a shot would be. He would have to be near the top of the stairs with the weapon close to his face to achieve the angle. He most certainly would not have continued walking up to the bedroom if the killer just shot him 2 times in the face. Yet he was shot 2 other times in the bedroom- one wound that grazed him while the other broke his arm. The location of the casings and left side being hit are all consistent with him being shot while on his side of the bed.
June is shot several times, Nevill wakes up and sits up. He is then shot 2 times in the face. He then turns to get out of bed exposing the left side of his body to the shooter and begins to rise. The killer shoots him in the arm and another grazes his arm. That is what the evidence supports happening.