UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2016, 02:57:17 PM
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latest news deserves its own thread....
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html
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Great to see SY have not given up the search
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Great to see that more funding will almost certainly be available.
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Heart-wrenching for (at least some) sceptics, not remotely interested in anything other than seeing the McCanns 'go down' (for the crimes of others) against their loved and precious daughter.
How doubly thrilling it would be (for most of us) if Madeleine were to be found alive ....
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Oh, but in the meantime, the McCanns are still suspects in their daughter's disappearance, of course ...
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Great to see that more funding will almost certainly be available.
IT doesn't say that?
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IT doesn't say that?
He [Mick Duthie] was speaking weeks after the Home Secretary Theresa May granted police £95,000 to extend the five year old inquiry for a further six months.
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....did not have a 'full understanding'....
Which translates in the real world as we don't really have a clue, and in reality how Madeleine disappeared is undetermined as it has continues to be.
I wonder when will this officer actually admit the investigation has been an abject failure ?
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IT doesn't say that?
It says that they can go back and ask. And I did say, "Almost Certainly." Anyone want to bet they will get it?
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There 'is always the possibility' they will find Madeleine and they hope they will find her alive. That's a very weak statement.
He later mention the M word, of course;
“There is a missing girl and if she has been murdered and if we think we have got justifiable and reasonable lines of inquiry to pursue then they should be dealt with.”
Are the lines of inquiry murder related then?
More funding?
“I imagine that if we have not completed our inquiries within six months we will go back to the Home Office and ask for more money.”
The Home Office will decide whether to give them more money next time they ask. No decision has been made yet therefore.
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It says that they can go back and ask. And I did say, "Almost Certainly." Anyone want to bet they will get it?
Anyone want to bet they will never find anything, but a nice little desk job at full pay , away from the fray of normal police work ?
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There 'is always the possibility' they will find Madeleine and they hope they will find her alive. That's a very weak statement.
He later mention the M word, of course;
“There is a missing girl and if she has been murdered and if we think we have got justifiable and reasonable lines of inquiry to pursue then they should be dealt with.”
Are the lines of inquiry murder related then?
More funding?
“I imagine that if we have not completed our inquiries within six months we will go back to the Home Office and ask for more money.”
The Home Office will decide whether to give them more money next time they ask. No decision has been made yet therefore.
it's quite obvious that the parents are not suspected or being investigated
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It is abundantly clear that SY never investigated the parents.
Now a thorough and competent I vestigation would have done that.
It will be interesting to read the comments section of the standard when I get home.
I believe they have investigated the parents and decided they are not involved and that the investigation is thorough and competent...you continue to falsely post your opinion as fact
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That must come as good news for everyone.
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That must come as good news for everyone.
it appears not
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I believe they have investigated the parents and decided they are not involved and that the investigation is thorough and competent...you continue to falsely post your opinion as fact
There is no evidence that they have ever investigated the parents.
This is just a continuation of a nice little desk job at full pay.
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That must come as good news for everyone.
Yet they don't have a 'full understanding' of what happened.
Translates as, we don't have a clue.
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No mention of abduction, just disappearance.
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No mention of abduction, just disappearance.
read it again...it says taken
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There is no evidence that they have ever investigated the parents.
This is just a continuation of a nice little desk job at full pay.
there is no evidence they have not investigated the parents
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That must come as good news for everyone.
What did he say that was new?
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No mention of abduction, just disappearance.
Mr Duthie, who is in overall charge of the investigation Operation Grange, said: “There is ongoing work. There is always a possibility that we will find Madeleine and we hope that we will find her alive.
“That’s what we want and that’s what the family and the public want and that is why the Home Office continue to fund it. There is work that needs to be done still. “
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What did he say that was new?
Well with all the speculation about 'murder squad' they said that Madeleine could still be found alive, good news isn't it?
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read it again...it says taken
Ah, but not by whom.
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No mention of abduction, just disappearance.
You tend to the view that hope (on the part of the investigating team) that Madeleine will be found alive centre on something other than abduction?
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I don't have any expectation of her being found alive.
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I don't have any expectation of her being found alive.
Do do you hold at a hope that she will be found dead?
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I don't recognise the point of hope. What has happened has happened and hoping or praying will make no difference to the outcome.
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Ah, but not by whom.
are you still clinging to the hope they suspect the parents
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are you still clinging to the hope they suspect the parents
I'm not clinging to anything - I'm not emotionally involved, so will be content with whatever conviction is forthcoming, assuming that there is one.
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I'm not clinging to anything - I'm not emotionally involved, so will be content with whatever conviction is forthcoming, assuming that there is one.
you will be surprised that I feel exactly the same...the difference is based on everything I have seen and read I don't think the parents are involved
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If this charade continues both SY and the remaining members of OG will become a laughing stock.
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If this charade continues both SY and the remaining members of OG will become a laughing stock.
your opinion again
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If this charade continues both SY and the remaining members of OG will become a laughing stock.
While all those who mock, deride and accuse the McCanns will be held up as beacons and shining examples to us all ....
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If this charade continues both SY and the remaining members of OG will become a laughing stock.
Ms Wall seems to have disappeared. I suppose that with only a handful of officers left, her skills would be rather wasted.
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Ms Wall seems to have disappeared. I suppose that with only a handful of officers left, her skills would be rather wasted.
She was replaced.
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She was replaced.
When did that happen - I obviously didn't see that announcement.
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When did that happen - I obviously didn't see that announcement.
You are not very observant ....
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You are not very observant ....
That may well be - I'm not an avid follower of these things.
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While all those who mock, deride and accuse the McCanns will be held up as beacons and shining examples to us all ....
and the mccanns and associates who thought drinking, eating and socializing were more important that child care will be held up as ...
Answers on a postcard from the Algarve.
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Behind the headline.
Mr Duthie, who is in overall charge of the investigation Operation Grange, said: “There is ongoing work. There is always a possibility that we will find Madeleine and we hope that we will find her alive.
“That’s what we want and that’s what the family and the public want and that is why the Home Office continue to fund it. There is work that needs to be done still. “
The police chief admitted detectives did not have a “full understanding” of what happened to Madeleine or why she was taken but added: “That is why the work continues. “
He told the Standard: “There is a missing girl and if she has been murdered and if we think we have got justifiable and reasonable lines of inquiry to pursue then they should be dealt with.”
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When did that happen - I obviously didn't see that announcement.
Obviously Ms. Wall thought the case was a dead end.
I've just seen a photo of the officer in question.....
Looks completely clueless.
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Not Vogue material, you mean?
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Perhaps a mccann supporter would like to explain why the same photos are run again and again and again.
Is it to try and catch the sympathy vote for the mccanns ?
Well, that dried up some time ago.
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She was replaced.
Cite.
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Not Vogue material, you mean?
Not exactly Jassi.
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'She's alive, she's dead. She's alive, she's dead. Can we just stop this ridiculous roller coaster of baseless speculation concerning the existence of Madeline McCann? This is all just desperate groping for page clicks and ad revenue.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3546099/Madeleine-McCann-detectives-believe-youngster-disappeared-family-holiday-Portugal-2007-alive.html#ixzz46CcxQWkW
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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"They have always said that in the absence of any evidence that would suggest that Madeleine has come to serious harm, it is perfectly logical to believe that their daughter may still be alive." (spokesman for the McCanns)
"There is always a possibility that we will find Madeleine and we hope that we will find her alive."
The police like to keep you happy. It makes their job so much easier 8(0(*
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Cite.
Process of logical deduction.
If Ms Wall has 'disappeared' (and Operation Grange continues) she has been replaced (by someone heading up Operation Grange).
OR
Ms Wall has not 'disappeared' (from Operation Grange).
In which case Operation Grange still continues.
All ways, Operation Grange continues.
Great news .....
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She was replaced.
Someone from NPHWG is in charge.
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Process of logical deduction.
If Ms Wall has 'disappeared' (and Operation Grange continues) she has been replaced (by someone heading up Operation Grange).
OR
Ms Wall has not 'disappeared' (from Operation Grange).
In which case Operation Grange still continues.
All ways, Operation Grange continues.
Great news .....
Last update from the Met
Oct 28, 2015 14:49 GMT
The enquiry has not reached a conclusion, there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued.
The officers will continue to be overseen by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the current senior investigating officer, and sit within an existing major investigation team on the Homicide and Major Crime Command.
http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
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Process of logical deduction.
If Ms Wall has 'disappeared' (and Operation Grange continues) she has been replaced (by someone heading up Operation Grange).
OR
Ms Wall has not 'disappeared' (from Operation Grange).
In which case Operation Grange still continues.
All ways, Operation Grange continues.
Great news .....
......and they have found absolutely nothing.
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Last update from the Met
Oct 28, 2015 14:49 GMT
The enquiry has not reached a conclusion, there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued.
The officers will continue to be overseen by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the current senior investigating officer, and sit within an existing major investigation team on the Homicide and Major Crime Command.
http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
October 2015?
Last update?
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October 2015?
Last update?
Perhaps you can provide a cite.
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Perhaps you can provide a cite.
That Operation Grange continues?
Read the recent threads ...
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Mr Duthie seems to be the honcho heading up the Met’s Homicide and Major Crime Command.
So I guess Ms Wall is under him.
We don't seem to be being told much we don't know already but that will not stop another 10 pages or so I guess.
http://www.met.police.uk/documentary/mick-duthie.htm
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October 2015?
Last update?
You should provide a cite where it says Nicola Wall has been replaced. DCI Nicola Wall does have ranks above her you know such as Superintendents.
p.s. just saw AP beat me to it.
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Mr Duthie seems to be the honcho heading up the Met’s Homicide and Major Crime Command.
So I guess Ms Wall is under him.
We don't seem to be being told much we don't know already but that will not stop another 10 pages or so I guess.
http://www.met.police.uk/documentary/mick-duthie.htm
Yes DCS is higher up than DCI.
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Well with all the speculation about 'murder squad' they said that Madeleine could still be found alive, good news isn't it?
They didn't sound too sure about finding her at all to me. 'Always the possibility' isn't all that positive. The M word did crop up again too, remember. I wouldn't get too excited if I were you.
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That Operation Grange continues?
Read the recent threads ...
Cite to show Ms. Wall is in charge. 8)--))
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html)
"Detective Chief Superintendent Mick Duthie, the head of the Yard’s homicide squad [...] refused to give further details about the inquiry but confirmed that detectives were still examining possible links to a series of burglaries in the Algrarve area at the time Madeleine went missing."
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html)
"Detective Chief Superintendent Mick Duthie, the head of the Yard’s homicide squad [...] refused to give further details about the inquiry but confirmed that detectives were still examining possible links to a series of burglaries in the Algrarve area at the time Madeleine went missing."
We have read that.
It is meaningless.
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We have read that.
It is meaningless.
then you need to read it again
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They didn't sound too sure about finding her at all to me. 'Always the possibility' isn't all that positive. The M word did crop up again too, remember. I wouldn't get too excited if I were you.
no one is getting excited...just pleased Grange is continuing
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html)
"Detective Chief Superintendent Mick Duthie, the head of the Yard’s homicide squad [...] refused to give further details about the inquiry but confirmed that detectives were still examining possible links to a series of burglaries in the Algrarve area at the time Madeleine went missing."
Have they given up on the smelly sex offender with a fetish for little girls from the UK then?
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We have read that.
It is meaningless.
Precisely Steve. And the new man is definitely aware of the value of South Yorkshire EVRDs.
For example in 2013 somewhere in this landscape a body was concealed extremely well by a perfectionist.
Completely undetectable to the human eye.
So who did they call?
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latest news deserves its own thread....
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html
It is always comforting to the parents of a missing child to hear that the police still hope to find her alive but alas it is a forlorn hope in my opinion. There are no firm leads in this case, one minute she was supposed to have been tucked up in bed and the next she has disappeared. The police say Tanner's mystery man was simply an innocent tourist so there isn't even a sighting near to the apartment despite several people being out walking around it that night. All very mysterious.
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Precisely Steve. And the new man is definitely aware of the value of South Yorkshire EVRDs.
For example in 2013 somewhere in this landscape a body was concealed extremely well by a perfectionist.
Completely undetectable to the human eye.
So who did they call?
Less of this nonsense about "E"vrd, please.
If the "E" bestowed upon the one-and-only victim recovery dog, indeed, dog, (in the history of sniffer dogs) to bear that title did anything, it made that dog's handler very rich.
Nothing else.
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Less of this nonsense about "E"vrd, please.
If the "E" bestowed upon the one-and-only victim recovery dog, indeed, dog, (in the history of sniffer dogs) to bear that title did anything, it made that dog's handler very rich.
Nothing else.
You should be congratulating him for showing incentive. 8(0(*
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HWG?
National Police Homicide Working Group
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You should be congratulating him for showing incentive. 8(0(*
I grant he showed that, all right.
Not sure I'll be congratulating him for it, though ....
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Less of this nonsense about "E"vrd, please.
If the "E" bestowed upon the one-and-only victim recovery dog, indeed, dog, (in the history of sniffer dogs) to bear that title did anything, it made that dog's handler very rich.
Nothing else.
Well a South Yorks EVRD certainly did rather well the case I posted above
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7150.msg321721#msg321721
This is where the dog alerted.
Incidentally the description of this EVRD deployment is in the journal of the HWG.
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Well a South Yorks EVRD certainly did rather well the case I posted above
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7150.msg321721#msg321721
This is where the dog alerted.
Incidentally the description of this EVRD deployment is in the journal of the HWG.
PC Mark Adams and VRD Kip, a Springer Spaniel, and DC Ian Jefferies and VRD Sid, a Labrador, were deployed from South Yorkshire to assist Durham officers in searching vast areas of moorland in West Yorkshire on Sunday, 26 May 2013 as part of the investigation.
Following enquiries by Durham officers, they had been led to believe the body of a missing woman they had been searching over two months for, may have been buried somewhere on the moorland by her partner, who had earlier been charged with her murder.
The forensic archaeologist reported it was the most concealed grave he had come across, being three foot deep with stone slabs also placed on top.
http://www.southyorks.police.uk/news-syp/dog-handlers-commended-assistance-north-east-murder
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Some new pics ...
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2016/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-more-on.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2016/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-more-on.html)
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You found the case Pathfinder well done. Who would certainly have read the details of that case?
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You found the case Pathfinder well done. Who would certainly have read the details of that case?
Thanks Pegasus. "one of the biggest body hunts Durham Police has ever been involved with."
"We were very grateful to South Yorkshire," said Det Insp Sampson. "With their dogs, which can detect the gases given off from graves, we quickly located the grave."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-24206111
Adrian Muir, 51, from Halifax, denies murder at Newcastle Crown Court.
He said that the killer must have seen TV footage of a search of the area, which followed his arrest, then buried her there to implicate him.
When asked why one of his fingerprints was on a plastic bag containing flowers which was found with the body, he said the killer must have taken it from her home.
Mr Robertson added: "It's another unfortunate coincidence that this other person, whoever they may be, has not left any of their prints on either of the bags, the only discernible print is yours. That's very bad luck."
Mr Muir said: "It's one big bad luck. It's terrible."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-24131262
That old chestnut %56&
'Nine years for a man that's capable of killing someone': Anger of son whose mother was killed and buried on moor by lover she met on dating website
'He continued to lie in the face of the huge volume of forensics and telecommunications evidence linking him to Soyland Moor where Pamela was found and, at trial, even made wild accusations of a conspiracy against him in his efforts to evade justice.
'Each and every one of his actions has been motivated by a cowardly sense of self-preservation."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2439304/Adrian-Muir-Pamela-Jacksons-sons-anger-unjust-sentence-given-manslaughter.html
got pdf report
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So, how many people on here seriously believe SY have made any progress with this case at all ?
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So, how many people on here seriously believe SY have made any progress with this case at all ?
they have ruled out the parents
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then you need to read it again
So you think "refused to give further details about the inquiry" and "confirmed that detectives were still examining possible links to a series of burglaries in the Algrarve area at the time Madeleine ..." Are compatible?
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they have ruled out the parents
Yet how and when Madeleine disappeared is unknown.
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So you think "refused to give further details about the inquiry" and "confirmed that detectives were still examining possible links to a series of burglaries in the Algrarve area at the time Madeleine ..." Are compatible?
absolutely
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Some new pics ...
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2016/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-more-on.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2016/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-more-on.html)
But for the steps at the side of the apartment, Casa Maria reminds me very much of the outside of 5A.
End apartment, recessed front door and car park wall immediately outside. Must be quite a few similar apartments in Luz in the same phase of building.
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Yet how and when Madeleine disappeared is unknown.
that's right but the parents are not suspects
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"The British officers questioned them on suspicion of being part of a burglary gang that panicked after killing Madeleine during a bungled break-in. They all protested their innocence and were released without charge."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/
GA: "What is very serious, alarming even, is their attempt to stage a new thesis – a theory if you prefer – that involves someone, a burglar (who breaks into the apartment) intent on stealing, is frightened by a three-year old child, kills her and then takes the body with him – a rather far-fetching scenario (to say the least).
I remember a colleague, a British colleague who also happened to be from Scotland Yard, proposing exactly the same thesis (by the way, he was the only one from Scotland Yard around at the time).
We analysed this hypothesis at the time; discussed it and eventually dismissed it as implausible.
They talk about drug traffickers, dealers who suddenly (presumably), had the imaginative idea to burglar a house for keeps. The fallacy is, there is no way to prove that apartment was burgled; there are no signs of a forced entry. Nothing was stolen from there."
(MP): There are those bank statements…
(GA): Which bank statements? The ones they found on that path? Rubbish? We are talking here of garbage they have been collecting, none of which is associated with…
The bank statements are not from the McCanns’; they were not removed from their apartment. Nothing was removed from that apartment. Nothing was stolen. The only “thing” that was removed from there – and I say “thing” in brackets for it was not a “thing”, it was a person – the only “thing” missing from there, was Madeleine McCann!
Not a television set, not a camera, not a thing! There were no traces of a break-in either! Therefore there was no burglary. Not theft took place in there.
Now we are asked to assume that these burglars were extremely intelligent and decided to take a dead child with them (dead because they killed her or because she died of fright). That they might have thought: “Let’s take the child away with us, because the consequences of an homicide are much worst than those a theft”.
And to make it all more plausible, they are supposed to have simulated a kidnapping – which is where that story of the window found open with the slats of the blind jimmied and the curtains blown by a draft, comes in as if to suggest the child was taken through it, and so on.
Fine thinking! The problem is, there are no signs of a theft (or a break-into the apartment for that matter)…
It seems these burglars must have been very intelligent indeed! Unfortunately, soon afterwards, they run out of common sense and leave the body not far from the crime scene. That was not so clever, was it? It was as if, suddenly, their intelligence had gone.
Another thing that does not seem to match reality is this – they were supposed to be three of them and have arrived at the apartment by feet and yet, if you recall, only one of them was seen carrying the child towards those fields (the British police are searching).
But fair enough! It could have happened as they imagine it did. There were several mobile phone pings in that area (whatever that means) the problem is, I don’t see anything, garbage or otherwise, capable of giving any substance to Scotland Yard’s new thesis.
https://zizipresscuts.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/dr-goncalo-amaral-on-scotland-yards-staging-in-praia-da-luz/
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that's right but the parents are not suspects
Yet pursuing abduction SY have found nothing.
...and without an 'abduction' what is left ?
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Yet pursuing abduction SY have found nothing.
...and without an 'abduction' what is left ?
just because they have not found the abductor doesnt mean there wasn't one
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and that applies to the accidental death scenario Dave.
no it doesn't...accidental death has been ruled out for very obvious reasons
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no it doesn't...accidental death has been ruled out for very obvious reasons
What obvious reasons ?
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So, how many people on here seriously believe SY have made any progress with this case at all ?
Me.
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I will leave you and your fellows to your fantasy of abduction.
and SY of course
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So what have they found that will solve the case ?
I couldn't know that, just observing that they have now put a very senior investigator onto the case.
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8)-)))
But for the steps at the side of the apartment, Casa Maria reminds me very much of the outside of 5A.
End apartment, recessed front door and car park wall immediately outside. Must be quite a few similar apartments in Luz in the same phase of building.
You are right Brietta. Casa María is in block 4.
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2016/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-more-on.html
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I couldn't know that, just observing that they have now put a very senior investigator onto the case.
and the key points..
Have they found how Madeleine was removed from the apartment or who did it ?
Have they determined her fate ?
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(snip) ... reminds me very much of the outside of 5A.
End apartment, recessed front door and car park wall immediately outside. ... (snip)
You have good observation skills Bretta, indeed it is similar.
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Deputy Assistant Commissioner Steve Rodhouse is commenting on the case on Sky news. He is the gold commander of Operation Yewtree.
http://news.sky.com/story/1680884/police-still-hope-madeleine-can-be-found-alive
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"The British officers questioned them on suspicion of being part of a burglary gang that panicked after killing Madeleine during a bungled break-in. They all protested their innocence and were released without charge."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/
GA: "What is very serious, alarming even, is their attempt to stage a new thesis – a theory if you prefer – that involves someone, a burglar (who breaks into the apartment) intent on stealing, is frightened by a three-year old child, kills her and then takes the body with him – a rather far-fetching scenario (to say the least).
I remember a colleague, a British colleague who also happened to be from Scotland Yard, proposing exactly the same thesis (by the way, he was the only one from Scotland Yard around at the time).
We analysed this hypothesis at the time; discussed it and eventually dismissed it as implausible.
They talk about drug traffickers, dealers who suddenly (presumably), had the imaginative idea to burglar a house for keeps. The fallacy is, there is no way to prove that apartment was burgled; there are no signs of a forced entry. Nothing was stolen from there."
(MP): There are those bank statements…
(GA): Which bank statements? The ones they found on that path? Rubbish? We are talking here of garbage they have been collecting, none of which is associated with…
The bank statements are not from the McCanns’; they were not removed from their apartment. Nothing was removed from that apartment. Nothing was stolen. The only “thing” that was removed from there – and I say “thing” in brackets for it was not a “thing”, it was a person – the only “thing” missing from there, was Madeleine McCann!
Not a television set, not a camera, not a thing! There were no traces of a break-in either! Therefore there was no burglary. Not theft took place in there.
Now we are asked to assume that these burglars were extremely intelligent and decided to take a dead child with them (dead because they killed her or because she died of fright). That they might have thought: “Let’s take the child away with us, because the consequences of an homicide are much worst than those a theft”.
And to make it all more plausible, they are supposed to have simulated a kidnapping – which is where that story of the window found open with the slats of the blind jimmied and the curtains blown by a draft, comes in as if to suggest the child was taken through it, and so on.
Fine thinking! The problem is, there are no signs of a theft (or a break-into the apartment for that matter)…
It seems these burglars must have been very intelligent indeed! Unfortunately, soon afterwards, they run out of common sense and leave the body not far from the crime scene. That was not so clever, was it? It was as if, suddenly, their intelligence had gone.
Another thing that does not seem to match reality is this – they were supposed to be three of them and have arrived at the apartment by feet and yet, if you recall, only one of them was seen carrying the child towards those fields (the British police are searching).
But fair enough! It could have happened as they imagine it did. There were several mobile phone pings in that area (whatever that means) the problem is, I don’t see anything, garbage or otherwise, capable of giving any substance to Scotland Yard’s new thesis.
https://zizipresscuts.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/dr-goncalo-amaral-on-scotland-yards-staging-in-praia-da-luz/
**snip
(GA) It’s easy. They appear as a result of checking the records of mobile phones numbers used in that area around the time of the crime – that very same night say, and then finding out who owns them and who has a criminal record.
But, to assume these traffickers were also thieves – that is quite a leap of faith! To presume traffickers go around burgling houses, reveals a complete lack of understanding of drug trafficking in Algarve, what it entails, and the people behind it.
Translators note: Dr. Goncalo Amaral ought to know for he was once head of a police squad involved in the fight against drug-trafficking.
But fair enough, they could have been talking about dealers who sell a few drugs and then go around stealing to support their own addiction.
https://zizipresscuts.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/dr-goncalo-amaral-on-scotland-yards-staging-in-praia-da-luz/
**snip
Ricardo Macedo and Dias Santos, respectively Chief Inspector in assets and now retired engineer, two historical paintings of combating drug trafficking of the Judicial Police, were this morning held a mega-operation's own PJ under suspicion of corruption and money laundering, the receipt of major trafficking networks gloves, to provide inside information and create diversions, within the PJ, which allowed the entry of large amounts of cocaine in Portugal in recent years, thus escaping the police control. There are connections, found the CM, one of the major drug cartels in South America.
**snip
The investigation, according to PJ, will continue with a view to collect more evidence. The latest scandal to hit the PJ department responsible for combating drug trafficking occurred in 2007: the coordinator Ana Paula Matos was investigated and arrested later by embezzling 94,000 euros seizures of the drug dealers. Eventually sentenced to seven years and is held in Brazil awaiting extradition.
http://.....2.forumotion.co.uk/t5212-pj-inspectors-arrested-over-drug-trafficking
Portuguese Judges, Prosecutors and the Policia Judiciaria have been working on many cases of historic corruption, money laundering and those responsible for facilitating major drug dealings in the Algarve.
For Mr Amaral to declare that the reopened Scotland Yard investigation "reveals a complete lack of understanding of drug trafficking in Algarve, what it entails, and the people behind it" when one realises what was going on under his nose when and on his watch "he was once head of a police squad involved in the fight against drug-trafficking"
Recent events have proved him as inept at that job as he was in his role as coordinator of the investigation into the case of a missing child ... where again he seems to have failed to pick up on what was going on right under his nose.
For Mr Amaral to make an appearance on television to criticise SY resuming the search for Madeleine in the disparaging manner he did reflects badly on him, not SY ... they are after all doing the job he failed to do.
One awaits with interest his next lengthy interview and his pronouncements about Scotland Yard's latest statement saying Madeleine could still be found alive.
Although I'm not too sure there will be another interview with him by any serious TV channel.
As time passes and it has become more and more evident that a lot more could and should have been done nearly nine years ago to find Madeleine alive until there was definitive proof of death, not a theory ~ no-one is going to be very interested in what he has to say.
That Scotland Yard have had to justify continuing to work on a missing child case when there are still investigative opportunities to be pursued is absolutely shameful.
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Please stay on-topic.
Thank you.
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I couldn't know that, just observing that they have now put a very senior investigator onto the case.
They did that with Hall..........................
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It's good to see that SY believe there are still lines of enquiry to investigate and again it is obvious that the parents are not suspects
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It's good to see that SY believe there are still lines of enquiry to investigate and again it is obvious that the parents are not suspects
Amazing how you get all of that out of "work still to be done".
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The police chief admitted detectives did not have a “full understanding” of what happened to Madeleine.........
i.e. police talk for we don't have a clue.
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capital letters show how frustrated you are...the case is ongoing and not finished...they may apply for further funding...fact
I'm not frustrated in the slightest.
However, those who perpetuate the abduction story are going to remain VERY DISAPPOINTED.
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I'm not frustrated in the slightest.
However, those who perpetuate the abduction story are going to remain VERY DISAPPOINTED.
Capital letters again...calm down......posting your opinion as fact again
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From the Journal of Homicide and Major Crime Investigation produced by the National Policing Homicide Working group which has Mick Duthie as a member.
"South Yorkshire Police supplied support in the form of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD). Ultimately the VRDs and their handlers discovered Pamela’s ‘deposition grave site’, following a combination of further search and investigation which narrowed down a specific area of interest."
Very interesting piece on the search for Pamela Jackson and recovery of her body by the cadaver dogs from page 57.
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/J_Homicide_MII/J_Homicide_10.1.pdf
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From the Journal of Homicide and Major Crime Investigation produced by the National Policing Homicide Working group which has Mick Duthie as a member.
"South Yorkshire Police supplied support in the form of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD). Ultimately the VRDs and their handlers discovered Pamela’s ‘deposition grave site’, following a combination of further search and investigation which narrowed down a specific area of interest."
He'll certainly know the value of the cadaver dog alerts.
and their limitations...he is saying Maddie may still be alive
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I'm not frustrated in the slightest.
However, those who perpetuate the abduction story are going to remain VERY DISAPPOINTED.
Why all the negativity from you Stephen, you have heard it from a top detective, Madeleine could be found alive, so if that doesn't say 'abduction' I don't know what would.
Aren't you happy that Madeleine could be found alive?
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I couldn't know that, just observing that they have now put a very senior investigator onto the case.
Looking at The Met command structures he was always there.
4 murder teams of up to 50 lead by a DCI each report into a DCS or a DS in each of 6 geographical areas.
If it's good enough for a murder investigation why would they alter it for a missing person?
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Why all the negativity from you Stephen, you have heard it from a top detective, Madeleine could be found alive, so if that doesn't say 'abduction' I don't know what would.
Aren't you happy that Madeleine could be found alive?
I am sure everyone accepts that there is a very slim possibility of Madeleine being found alive and as an outcome would almost certainly be the best possible outcome. However to use that slim probability as proof that police have discounted pointers to her death is disingenuous at best.
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Why all the negativity from you Stephen, you have heard it from a top detective, Madeleine could be found alive, so if that doesn't say 'abduction' I don't know what would.
Aren't you happy that Madeleine could be found alive?
The same detective, a specialist in murder investigations by the way, is hedging his bets, just like Redwood.
Like Redwood, he comes out with cliches.
If you hadn't got the message by now, I don't think Madeleine is alive for a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean I want her dead.
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@Davel the first paragraph on page 57 explains the two reasons why every homicide investigation in which there is no body must concurrently run a missing person investigation.
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/J_Homicide_MII/J_Homicide_10.1.pdf
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8@??)(
I am sure everyone accepts that there is a very slim possibility of Madeleine being found alive and is an outcome would almost certainly be the best possible outcome. However to use that slim probability as proof that police have discounted pointers to her death is disingenuous at best.
Where have I used the probability as proof that police have discounted pointers to her death?
They say COULD be found alive.
I just find all the negativity such as 'they won't find anything, that doesn't mean she was abducted' etc. etc.
Of course SY think she was abducted they wouldn't say that Madeleine COULD be found alive if they didn't.
That doesn't mean that who over abducted her, didn't kill her.
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Where have I used the probability as proof that police have discounted pointers to her death?
They say COULD be found alive.
I just find all the negativity such as 'they won't find anything, that doesn't mean she was abducted' etc. etc.
Of course SY think she was abducted they wouldn't say that Madeleine COULD be found alive if they didn't.
That doesn't mean that who over abducted her, didn't kill her.
In case you need reminding, there is no evidence to charge anyone with anything.
Carry on believing she may be alive.
That is your prerogative.
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In case you need reminding, there is no evidence to charge anyone with anything.
Carry on believing she may be alive.
That is your prerogative.
You know this how? SY are following up leads, who is to say they don't have evidence?
I will carry on HOPING she may still be alive Stephen as will most of the public.
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From the Journal of Homicide and Major Crime Investigation produced by the National Policing Homicide Working group which has Mick Duthie as a member.
"South Yorkshire Police supplied support in the form of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD). Ultimately the VRDs and their handlers discovered Pamela’s ‘deposition grave site’, following a combination of further search and investigation which narrowed down a specific area of interest."
Very interesting piece on the search for Pamela Jackson and recovery of her body by the cadaver dogs from page 57.
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/J_Homicide_MII/J_Homicide_10.1.pdf
I think everyone should read that from page 50. All the deletions discovered on his phone and his cover stories for blood etc. Many believe they can outsmart the police.
"I consider detective's instinct or 'gut-feeling', to be an underplayed attribute in an era of risk aversion and performance management; it should be encouraged in detectives as part of their skllls base."
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Hope all you will.
As to what the police say in statements, they do follow a certain 'protocol', and I thought you would have sufficient awareness to realize that.
I think you will find though that most people believe Madeleine died some time ago.
No. Most people don't believe that Madeleine died some time ago.
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No. Most people don't believe that Madeleine died some time ago.
You say NO, I say YES.
Perhaps you should ask around.
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No. Most people don't believe that Madeleine died some time ago.
You sound very sure. Have you done a poll on this recently ?
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You sound very sure. Have you done a poll on this recently ?
I would think that most would HOPE she is still alive.
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You sound very sure. Have you done a poll on this recently ?
Perhaps Stephen would like to prove his original statement. And perhaps you can help him.
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Perhaps Stephen would like to prove his original statement. And perhaps you can help him.
Perhaps he will. I have no interest in trying to prove it either way.
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I am sure everyone accepts that there is a very slim possibility of Madeleine being found alive and as an outcome would almost certainly be the best possible outcome. However to use that slim probability as proof that police have discounted pointers to her death is disingenuous at best.
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Perhaps Stephen would like to prove his original statement. And perhaps you can help him.
That applies to you as well.
I have yet to meet anyone face to face who I have discussed the case with, that they believe she is alive. Most believe she died very early on.
As for a fair selection of people's views, look in the comments sections of the papers running the story.
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I think everyone should read that from page 50. All the deletions discovered on his phone and his cover stories for blood etc. Many believe they can outsmart the police.
"I consider detective's instinct or 'gut-feeling', to be an underplayed attribute in an era of risk aversion and performance management; it should be encouraged in detectives as part of their skllls base."
That's a very Dixon of Dock Green approach on a good day and a very Gene Hunt approach on a bad one. Don't you think evidence and following and collating it has a place in modern day policing?
Let's face it ... the primary investigation went very much with the detective's "gut feeling" ... I prefer the way it is being done presently with a systematic approach to evidence gathering which has led to the statement that Madeleine may still be found alive.
If that statement had not been evidence based but the senior officer had said it was a "gut feeling" ... what would you be saying to that now?
Reading between the lines Scotland Yard have a definite line of inquiry. I think they are determined that as long as there are investigative opportunities still open in Madeleine McCann's case they intend to follow them to conclusion ... that takes money ... and it has just been made very difficult for any home secretary to cut the funding for that live investigation.
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That applies to you as well.
I have yet to meet anyone face to face who I have discussed the case with, that they believe she is alive. Most believe she died very early on.
As for a fair selection of people's views, look in the comments sections of the papers running the story.
I don't have to prove anything, Stephen. I only have to Hope. What about you?
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I don't have to prove anything, Stephen. I only have to Hope. What about you?
And do you think hope will change anything? Will it bring a dead child back to life or make a living one any more alive?
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I don't have to prove anything, Stephen. I only have to Hope. What about you?
Ah the old moral high ground ploy.
That really doesn't wash anymore.
Believe what you wish, that is your choice.
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That's a very Dixon of Dock Green approach on a good day and a very Gene Hunt approach on a bad one. Don't you think evidence and following and collating it has a place in modern day policing?
Let's face it ... the primary investigation went very much with the detective's "gut feeling" ... I prefer the way it is being done presently with a systematic approach to evidence gathering which has led to the statement that Madeleine may still be found alive.
If that statement had not been evidence based but the senior officer had said it was a "gut feeling" ... what would you be saying to that now?
Reading between the lines Scotland Yard have a definite line of inquiry. I think they are determined that as long as there are investigative opportunities still open in Madeleine McCann's case they intend to follow them to conclusion ... that takes money ... and it has just been made very difficult for any home secretary to cut the funding for that live investigation.
I believe they now know what happened in this case which explains the small team left on it. The suspected burglars were released without charge.
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And do you think hope will change anything? Will it bring a dead child back to life or make a living one any more alive?
No. It just emphasises my attitude to life and to people in general.
And of course, if no one is looking for Madeleine then she is hardly likely to be found.
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Ah the old moral high ground ploy.
That really doesn't wash anymore.
Believe what you wish, that is your choice.
I don't spend my life slagging off the parents of a missing child, or insisting that the child is dead. That is what gives me the moral high ground.
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I believe they now know what happened in this case which explains the small team left on it. The suspected burglars were released without charge.
I believe that they know what happened as well.
By the way, are the three Arguidos still Arguidos?
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I don't spend my life slagging off the parents of a missing child, or insisting that the child is dead. That is what gives me the moral high ground.
You have no moral high ground, when you said you left your children in similar circumstances.
The parents behaviour and the consequences of it, are why these threads exist.
The mccanns are responsible for what they did and what it led to.
Don't you agree.
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You have no moral high ground, when you said you left your children in similar circumstances.
The parents behaviour and the consequences of it, are why these threads exist.
The mccanns are responsible for what they did and what it led to.
Don't you agree.
Your opinion of my leaving my children alone is of less than zero importance to me. I have never lied about it, which is more than can be said for many.
The Abductor is the one responsible. So of course I don't agree.
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I believe that they know what happened as well.
By the way, are the three Arguidos still Arguidos?
I haven't heard about any follow-up interviews. They were released. One was only 16 at the time. Smithman the lone burglar was definitely not 16.
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I haven't heard about any follow-up interviews. They were released. One was only 16 at the time. Smithman the lone burglar was definitely not 16.
So they are likely still Arguidos. And the other two weren't 16. Far from it.
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Your opinion of my leaving my children alone is of less than zero importance to me. I have never lied about it, which is more than can be said for many.
The Abductor is the one responsible. So of course I don't agree.
Yes, you admitted that and you had the honesty to do it.
As to 'abduction', I don'the believe one ever took place, but I am prepared to accept undeniable evidence that one took place. Can you say the same Eleanor about the accidental death scenario ?
As it stands I do not believe this case will ever be solved.
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It seems Scotland Yard are still pursuing a single line of enquiry despite no actual evidence that Madeleine was abducted.
... and they had the head of homicide do the press release just to confuse people?
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Yes, you admitted that and you had the honesty to do it.
As to 'abduction', I don'the believe one ever took place, but I am prepared to accept undeniable evidence that one took place. Can you say the same Eleanor about the accidental death scenario ?
As it stands I do not believe this case will ever be solved.
Undeniable Proof that The McCanns dun it was never going to be a problem for me. I won't feel in the least bit embarrassed if it ever happens.
But isn't that the point. There is no proof against The McCanns. And Madeleine could be found alive.
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And do you think hope will change anything? Will it bring a dead child back to life or make a living one any more alive?
That is a strange question jassi, are you saying that no one ever should have hope? So if a child is dying and the parents have hope that that child won't die are they wrong to have such hope?
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... and they had the head of homicide do the press release just to confuse people?
Good one, Pegasus.
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... and they had the head of homicide do the press release just to confuse people?
I think they are afraid to admit it but up the creek without a paddle would appear to be the substance of it.
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Undeniable Proof that The McCanns dun it was never going to be a problem for me. I won't feel in the least bit embarrassed if it ever happens.
But isn't that the point. There is no proof against The McCanns. And Madeleine could be found alive.
I have never said the mccanns 'dunnit'.
So where did you get that from ?
Are you trying to imply that I did ?
I think they were both arrogant and careless in what they did.
As John says, there is no actual evidence Madeleine was abducted.
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I have never said the mccanns 'dunnit'.
So where did you get that from ?
Are you trying to imply that I did ?
I think they were both arrogant and careless in what they did.
As John says, there is no actual evidence Madeleine was abducted.
Have I said you did say it?
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Have I said you did say it?
So why did you mention 'dunnit' in your previous reply to me.
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So why did you mention 'dunnit' in your previous reply to me.
You really should try reading posts properly, Stephen.
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You really should try reading posts properly, Stephen.
Oh I do Eleanor.
I recommend you choose your words more carefully.
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So they are likely still Arguidos. And the other two weren't 16. Far from it.
Scotland Yard were refused permission to search their homes and check their bank statements ... the fact they wanted to shows they had an interest ... the fact they were unable to investigate them properly is unfortunate.
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Oh I do Eleanor.
I recommend you choose your words more carefully.
So where did I say that you said they dun it, Stephen?
I wouldn't recommend that I do anything, if I were you. This is bordering on an insult, however carefully you have chosen your words.
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So where did I say that you said they dun it, Stephen?
I wouldn't recommend that I do anything, if I were you. This is bordering on an insult, however carefully you have chosen your words.
Who first mentioned 'dunnit' Eleanor ?
Shall we draw a line on this now, and likewise don't recommend what I do either.
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That is a strange question jassi, are you saying that no one ever should have hope? So if a child is dying and the parents have hope that that child won't die are they wrong to have such hope?
They can obviously have hope, but it won't actually change anything - what will be will be.
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Who first mentioned 'dunnit' Eleanor ?
Shall we draw a line on this now, and likewise don't recommend what I do either.
Twisting words again, Stephen. But then this is what you do.
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Twisting words again, Stephen. But then this is what you do.
No more than certain others on here.
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Isn't odd that just as a joint Portuguese/Anglo second enquiry expresses hope of finding Madeleine (possibly) alive, news, apparently, breaks that Amaral has, after all, triumphed in his appeal in libel trial, which has at its centre a book in which he accuses the McCanns of direct responsibility for Madeleine's 'death', covering up the 'fact' of her 'death' and launching a fraudulent appeal in their 'dead' daughter's name.
There's something rum somewhere ....
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Time will reveal all
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if they have to pay all his expenses will the remaining fund be enough??
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if they have to pay all his expenses will the remaining fund be enough??
That may be the reason that a goodly chunk has been sequestered away, so that it cannot be used for costs.
On the other hand, it could be put aside specifically for legal costs.
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That may be the reason that a goodly chunk has been sequestered away, so that it cannot be used for costs.
On the other hand, it could be put aside specifically for legal costs.
It would be interesting to know how, if at all, the Portuguese solicitrix has coppered her bets.
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TOPIC PLEASE.
There is a new Thread concerning Amaral's Appeal.
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TOPIC PLEASE.
There is a new Thread concerning Amaral's Appeal.
There is a certain irony in the coincidence of timing of an announcement (of the present joint enquiry) that there remains hope of finding Madeleine alive coinciding with an announcement that Amaral's book declaring Madeleine is dead (at her own parents hands) should be allowed to resume sale ....
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Can't say I saw any mention of the Portuguese investigation in yesterday's statement. It was all about SY were doing.
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There is a certain irony in the coincidence of timing of an announcement (of the present joint enquiry) that there remains hope of finding Madeleine alive coinciding with an announcement that Amaral's book declaring Madeleine is dead (at her own parents hands) should be allowed to resume sale ....
Unless Scotland Yard are innit as well. In which case it might have been better if they had waited a week.
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Or not said anything at all if there was nothng to be said that hasnt been said before
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Isn't odd that just as a joint Portuguese/Anglo second enquiry expresses hope of finding Madeleine (possibly) alive, news, apparently, breaks that Amaral has, after all, triumphed in his appeal in libel trial, which has at its centre a book in which he accuses the McCanns of direct responsibility for Madeleine's 'death', covering up the 'fact' of her 'death' and launching a fraudulent appeal in their 'dead' daughter's name.
There's something rum somewhere ....
Seems to me the papers/'sources' are just regurgitating the same tripe they have for years. When I saw this reappear my first thought was that the trial results must be due out soon. Look here, not there..and all that
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Can't say I saw any mention of the Portuguese investigation in yesterday's statement. It was all about SY were doing.
Not really something to cheer about after spending millions! I hope to win the lottery,I know I never will because I don't play it, but I can hope that one day I will play it and win on that day. What are those odds? Alice do yer stuff and tell me, what are my odds.
SY are foolish to just spend all that money looking at one theory, after it had been trashed by many experts!