Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: G-Unit on May 12, 2016, 02:59:10 PM
Title: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2016, 02:59:10 PM
The Tapas receptionist said she was approached by a tall thin man on Sunday 29th April asking if he could book dinner for 9 Mark Warner guests for the whole week at 8.30pm.
The man said he wanted the booking because the group had 'many' small children who would be left alone in the apartments during dinner. At intervals two parents would go to check if the children were OK.
She demurred about the booking, pointing out that MW were only allowed 20 diners per night. The man insisted and she managed to make the booking. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUISA_COUTINHO.htm
Perhaps she 'managed' to make the reservation because 'Steve' authorised it and this guy got half the story;
on a date he cannot remember, the group, just the adults because the children were dining with the nannies, had been too late in making their dinner reservation at the Tapas, and an exception was made, authorised by his boss Steve, as the Tapas only provides for 20 dinners for half board clients as was the case. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS_BARROS.htm
A simple tale; Russell or Matthew booked on Sunday for the whole week, and the receptionist allowed it after checking with someone higher; the catering manager. He doesn't mention it but perhaps he forgot if he was busy going away;
He said that he was absent from Portugal between Sunday 29th April and the 2nd May 2007. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEVEN_COVA.htm
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Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 12, 2016, 10:25:13 PM
Well spotted GU! Is it possible a tapas restaraunt employee called the manager whilst he was away? For a guest request? Maybe maybe not
Ps I wouldnt call Russell thin
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 13, 2016, 02:13:26 AM
Well spotted GU! Is it possible a tapas restaraunt employee called the manager whilst he was away? For a guest request? Maybe maybe not
Ps I wouldnt call Russell thin
It's possible that the manager was at work on 29th also and he went home and went away later in the day. I think Russell is thinner than Matthew and Matthew had no interest in food on Sunday 29th. He was ill all day and went to no meals.
Rachael's 15th May statement refers to a hiccup, but on a different day. She also didn't seem to know the table was booked for the whole week;
On Monday they were told that there was no room for all of them in the restaurant, but they obtained a special favour from a waiter and all dined together. In order to obtain this favour they said that the children were asleep and that they could not move anywhere else. For this reason, from this day onwards they would reserve a space in the restaurant (for the adults) for the following day. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm
In her rog interview she says she booked the table on the 29th;
we'd booked to eat in the Tapas Bar that night because The Millennium had just been one kind of a bit of trek and a bit too stressful with all the kids and it was, thought it would be quite nice to have dinner by ourselves, so erm I booked a table for eight thirty in the Tapas for us
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 13, 2016, 10:26:55 PM
It's possible that the manager was at work on 29th also and he went home and went away later in the day. I think Russell is thinner than Matthew and Matthew had no interest in food on Sunday 29th. He was ill all day and went to no meals.
Rachael's 15th May statement refers to a hiccup, but on a different day. She also didn't seem to know the table was booked for the whole week;
On Monday they were told that there was no room for all of them in the restaurant, but they obtained a special favour from a waiter and all dined together. In order to obtain this favour they said that the children were asleep and that they could not move anywhere else. For this reason, from this day onwards they would reserve a space in the restaurant (for the adults) for the following day. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm
In her rog interview she says she booked the table on the 29th;
we'd booked to eat in the Tapas Bar that night because The Millennium had just been one kind of a bit of trek and a bit too stressful with all the kids and it was, thought it would be quite nice to have dinner by ourselves, so erm I booked a table for eight thirty in the Tapas for us
Oh this is interesting G. The poor mites were stressed having to take the children out for dinner/food? or , OR was it because they wanted peace to have a drink . This was a planned event- it really does come across as they couldn't be bothered with their children. Dump them off during the day, Dump them off to bed a night. OMG How cruel.
They seemed determined to get things done there way, expecting people to jump for them...hmm
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 13, 2016, 11:13:31 PM
Oh this is interesting G. The poor mites were stressed having to take the children out for dinner/food? or , OR was it because they wanted peace to have a drink . This was a planned event- it really does come across as they couldn't be bothered with their children. Dump them off during the day, Dump them off to bed a night. OMG How cruel.
They seemed determined to get things done there way, expecting people to jump for them...hmm
I suppose it depends on what you think a parent's role is and what you see as an acceptable balance between the needs of the parent and those of the child. I always wanted to be there for all the firsts; first smile, first swing, first sight of the sea, first boat ride. I also wanted to be sure my child learned my standards, was subjected to my idea of discipline and was comforted by me if they were upset or hurt. Handing any of that over to others wasn't part of my agenda, but seems common these days. Non-family members spend more time with some children than their parents do.
There did seem to be a sense of entitlement.
Anyway, back to the bookings. What does Kate say:
Today [Sunday] we’d been able to make a dinner reservation for the adult contingent at the poolside Tapas restaurant. Apparently, this restaurant, a canopied outdoor addition to the bar, catered for only up to fifteen diners in the evenings, and reservations could not be made until the morning of the day in question.
In spite of what we’d been told about booking the Tapas restaurant, Rachael managed to get a table for nine at 8.30pm pencilled in for the rest of the week after having a word with the receptionist at the pool and Tapas area.
to explain why she was bending the rules a bit, the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently. Madeleine, Kate McCann.
This isn't what Rachael or the receptionist said. The receptionist said Sunday and a man booked for the week, Rachael didn't mention booking for the whole week.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 13, 2016, 11:52:28 PM
This is one of the reasons I believe it was a mistake for the PJ to decide there was no point in UK police doing rogatory interviews with the parents. Kate Mccann wrote a book, she could have relayed most of it to the police instead to clarify everything, and contrast and compare with the rest of them go eiter bolster or show discrepancies.
Ps Matthew Oldfield and Russell O Brien are both tall, ROB the taller, but ROB ,at least from pics at the time seemed podgier
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 14, 2016, 12:07:20 AM
This is one of the reasons I believe it was a mistake for the PJ to decide there was no point in UK police doing rogatory interviews with the parents. Kate Mccann wrote a book, she could have relayed most of it to the police instead to clarify everything, and contrast and compare with the rest of them go eiter bolster or show discrepancies.
Ps Matthew Oldfield and Russell O Brien are both tall, ROB the taller, but ROB ,at least from pics at the time seemed podgier
I'm thinking Matt was sick all day Sunday. Plus the man had an older child with him; the receptionist thought it was MM but Russ's daughter wasn't at kids club Sunday am, MM was.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 14, 2016, 12:14:52 AM
I'm thinking Matt was sick all day Sunday. Plus the man had an older child with him; the receptionist thought it was MM but Russ's daughter wasn't at kids club Sunday am, MM was.
OK, that makes total sense.
Anyone know what Pegasus's photo text says?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 01:11:03 AM
If you look at the employee statement I referred to, and the image filename, it's not rocket science to read the name Mrs H's note is addressed to Merc.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 14, 2016, 01:16:32 AM
If you look at the employee statement I referred to, and the image filename, it's not rocket science to read the name Mrs H's note is addressed to Merc.
see it now, thanks P
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 01:22:13 AM
If you look at the employee statement I referred to, and the image filename, it's not rocket science to read the name Mrs H's note is addressed to Merc.
Who is Elsie?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 14, 2016, 09:22:44 AM
This is the Tapas supervisor Tiago Rochas Barreiros . He was aware of the booking;
From the very beginning, a request was made to the restaurant workers to reserve a table for 20H30 until the end of the week.
When was 'the very beginning?
they were clients of the Tapas restaurant which they began frequenting the 2nd day of their arrival to the OC. [Sunday, then]
He has other interesting snippets;
He goes daily to the family's apartment in order to bring them lunch.
That every day around 13H00, he heads to no. 4-G (where the family of the missing child is staying) and to no. 4-1 (where 10 people are lodged) to deliver lunch. He repeats this routine at 20H00 to take them dinner.
Meals for 12 delivered twice daily. Did he carry them all himself? Poor chap.
It seems extra alcohol was drunk during the week in addition to the free wine;
That the payment for alcohol, not included in the vacation package, was paid by credit card. This payment was made by random members of the group of nine. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIAGO_BARREIROS.htm
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 14, 2016, 03:03:43 PM
So who was the tall thin man? Russell O'Brien says;
thus they opted to have dinner, after that day, in the Tapas Restaurant. That restaurant is situated next to the pool, in the patio areas of the block of apartments where they found themselves lodged. The deponent furthers that the daughters of David and Fiona Payne are very agitated, and that they preferred to be the closest possible to the apartment. All the couples agreed, without objections. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN.htm
We were booked into the Tapas bar, we ate there that night initially it was booked as a one off I think by Rachael as far as I am aware the table was booked for 20:30hours. I am aware that Rachael asked to eat there each night for the remainder of our stay this I believe was booked on the Monday morning as a block booking- the time was agreed by the group. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
As a matter of interest he confirms that other alcohol such as beer may have been drunk in addition to the free wine;
if anything else was ordered there may have been a need to have made an additional payment. I recall that orders may have been put onto a bar bill and paid at the end of the week..... Generally of an evening we would drink beer or have a few glasses of wine
So he doesn't remember booking the Tapas restaurant. How about Matthew;
Prompted about the dinner reservations/bookings at Tapas, he relates that the first time thay made a reservation was on Sunday, not knowing who had made it. Asked if it could have been ROB the deponent admitted that that was possible, reiterating to not know for sure who had made it.
relating to the other days, he clarifies that on Monday morning his wife undertook such reservation, adding still that it would have been for all the remaining days except for Friday, 4 May, as there was to have been a Tennis Club dinner that night. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
So the tall men both deny making a reservation at the Tapas restaurant. Both say Rachael made a one off booking on the Sunday and a block booking for Monday-Thursday on Monday.
According to Kate's book she was horrified to find a note in the files about their home made listening service. She missed what Matthew had to say about MW being informed of their plans when the booking was made;
As far as he [MO] is concerned, he wishes at this time to add that, in conversation with DP on a date he does not recall with certainty but likely to have been on 7 or 8 May, he [DP] confided in him that that, at that time, KH had been particularly reluctant about coming to Portugal because she had had a bad feeling [presentiment] about the children of the group and the non-existence of the 'baby sitting' service.
Nevertheless, he relates that, they had discussed this problem resolving to make the trip since the operator had assured them accommodation sufficiently close together that, collectively, they had managed to assure the checking and supervision of their respective progeny.
Consequently, David had taken charge of negotiations with the operator to have all lodgings as close to each other as possible. Nonetheless, and because he was asked, he adds that on leaving England they did not know the exact apartments which they had been allotted. Nevertheless, he relates that DP had asked the operator that they be provided with lodgings in close proximity to each other because, as a group, they intended to perform that kind of checking collectively over the children of each family.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 08:37:26 PM
Several people were unable to eat at Tapas, because of the special treatment negotiated by someone in the T9. At least two of the T9 disagreed with this block booking of the whole week and thought, correctly, that it was unfair.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 08:46:30 PM
S Hubbard's letter and KM's SMS were both to L Coutinho, no-one elsie Jassi. They and Arthur B C were fairly amateur because they mistakenly delivered them to the door/mobile of J Coutinho. http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccanns-pressure-and-harass-ocean-club.html
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 14, 2016, 08:53:31 PM
S Hubbard's letter and KM's SMS were both to L Coutinho, no-one elsie Jassi. They and Arthur B C were fairly amateur because they mistakenly delivered them to the door/mobile of J Coutinho.
Never mind ?{)(**
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 14, 2016, 10:48:16 PM
So who was the tall thin man? Russell O'Brien says;
thus they opted to have dinner, after that day, in the Tapas Restaurant. That restaurant is situated next to the pool, in the patio areas of the block of apartments where they found themselves lodged. The deponent furthers that the daughters of David and Fiona Payne are very agitated, and that they preferred to be the closest possible to the apartment. All the couples agreed, without objections. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN.htm
We were booked into the Tapas bar, we ate there that night initially it was booked as a one off I think by Rachael as far as I am aware the table was booked for 20:30hours. I am aware that Rachael asked to eat there each night for the remainder of our stay this I believe was booked on the Monday morning as a block booking- the time was agreed by the group. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
As a matter of interest he confirms that other alcohol such as beer may have been drunk in addition to the free wine;
if anything else was ordered there may have been a need to have made an additional payment. I recall that orders may have been put onto a bar bill and paid at the end of the week..... Generally of an evening we would drink beer or have a few glasses of wine
So he doesn't remember booking the Tapas restaurant. How about Matthew;
Prompted about the dinner reservations/bookings at Tapas, he relates that the first time thay made a reservation was on Sunday, not knowing who had made it. Asked if it could have been ROB the deponent admitted that that was possible, reiterating to not know for sure who had made it.
relating to the other days, he clarifies that on Monday morning his wife undertook such reservation, adding still that it would have been for all the remaining days except for Friday, 4 May, as there was to have been a Tennis Club dinner that night. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
So the tall men both deny making a reservation at the Tapas restaurant. Both say Rachael made a one off booking on the Sunday and a block booking for Monday-Thursday on Monday.
According to Kate's book she was horrified to find a note in the files about their home made listening service. She missed what Matthew had to say about MW being informed of their plans when the booking was made;
As far as he [MO] is concerned, he wishes at this time to add that, in conversation with .... ...... on a date he does not recall with certainty but likely to have been on 7 or 8 May, he [.... ......] confided in him that that, at that time, KH had been particularly reluctant about coming to Portugal because she had had a bad feeling [presentiment] about the children of the group and the non-existence of the 'baby sitting' service.
Nevertheless, he relates that, they had discussed this problem resolving to make the trip since the operator had assured them accommodation sufficiently close together that, collectively, they had managed to assure the checking and supervision of their respective progeny.
Consequently, David had taken charge of negotiations with the operator to have all lodgings as close to each other as possible. Nonetheless, and because he was asked, he adds that on leaving England they did not know the exact apartments which they had been allotted. Nevertheless, he relates that .... ...... had asked the operator that they be provided with lodgings in close proximity to each other because, as a group, they intended to perform that kind of checking collectively over the children of each family.
Very interesting GU, its never straightforward, yes, who WAS the tall thin man? And why had all their memories seemngly gone to pot, no stock answers anyone pls.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 11:06:18 PM
Sorry Jassi, I get it now. BTW three people who by Thursday daytime disagreed with selfishly hogging the restaurant all week are JT ROB and KM - it's in the files
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 11:14:46 PM
It must have been really annoying for some of the other guests who were turned away from Tapas. They queued up at 9am in the morning to book a table for that evening, only to be told they couldn't have a table, because some self-important group had block-booked half the restaurant every evening.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 14, 2016, 11:25:45 PM
JT disagreed with the group's restaurant-hogging: "definitely from my point of view I felt quite bad that we were taking this block booking every night and it was affecting other people using it”
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 14, 2016, 11:33:35 PM
It must have been really annoying for some of the other guests who were turned away from Tapas. They queued up at 9am in the morning to book a table for that evening, only to be told they couldn't have a table, because some self-important group had block-booked half the restaurant every evening.
So why did they get it then?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 15, 2016, 12:43:41 AM
Basically because one or two people in the group were very shellfish Merc. Not all of them - JT and KM both very reasonably wanted to go elsewhere on Thu night and give other guests a turn.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 15, 2016, 12:48:30 AM
Basically because one or two people in the group were very shellfish Merc. Not all of them - JT and KM both very reasonably wanted to go elsewhere on Thu night and give other guests a turn.
Why were they allowed to get in? I meant I know how arrogantt and selfish some of that bloody group was
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 15, 2016, 02:17:51 AM
Because one person insisted Merc "upon the insistence of the guest" says the lady who was persuaded to allow the block-booking.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 20, 2016, 07:14:59 PM
...And so BEFORE they left for the resort, and not checking police files for child stealing burglars and paedophile gangs,9 you know all the risk assessment thing) they ALL AGREED they would be dining without the children in the evening. Evidence being; the Paynes took a quality listening device, no one else did. Jane being convinced this is a cultural thing in the UK (maybe in chavland darling). I have never heard of such a thing in my life.
Let us look at what we know from this one thread 1. the parents were intending to leave their children alone, unprotected, unseen, unheard from where they were drinking and dining. 2. This throws away the claim that' it felt safe'.
Whole new ball game.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 20, 2016, 07:33:49 PM
...And so BEFORE they left for the resort, and not checking police files for child stealing burglars and paedophile gangs,9 you know all the risk assessment thing) they ALL AGREED they would be dining without the children in the evening. Evidence being; the Paynes took a quality listening device, no one else did. Jane being convinced this is a cultural thing in the UK (maybe in chavland darling). I have never heard of such a thing in my life.
Let us look at what we know from this one thread 1. the parents were intending to leave their children alone, unprotected, unseen, unheard from where they were drinking and dining. 2. This throws away the claim that' it felt safe'.
Whole new ball game.
Throws up the question - How would they have behaved had they not been able to get a block booking every night?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 20, 2016, 07:43:32 PM
...And so BEFORE they left for the resort, and not checking police files for child stealing burglars and paedophile gangs,9 you know all the risk assessment thing) they ALL AGREED they would be dining without the children in the evening. Evidence being; the Paynes took a quality listening device, no one else did. Jane being convinced this is a cultural thing in the UK (maybe in chavland darling). I have never heard of such a thing in my life.
Let us look at what we know from this one thread 1. the parents were intending to leave their children alone, unprotected, unseen, unheard from where they were drinking and dining. 2. This throws away the claim that' it felt safe'.
Whole new ball game.
Yes, it's beginning to look as if the plan was in place before they went. I wonder if they knew the location of their apartments too? I only wonder because almost all of them made a point of saying they didn't, which makes it important perhaps.
the choice of that apartment having been made at random by OCEAN CLUB management, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
As he remembers, when the travel was booked, the apartments of the four couples were located close to each other in the same block, to make it easier to check on the children. (Russell)
Nevertheless, he relates that, they had discussed this problem resolving to make the trip since the operator had assured them accommodation sufficiently close together that, collectively, they had managed to assure the checking and supervision of their respective progeny.....he adds that on leaving England they did not know the exact apartments which they had been allotted.... they were only informed of their respective apartments on arrival in Portugal. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 20, 2016, 09:52:04 PM
Throws up the question - How would they have behaved had they not been able to get a block booking every night?
They would have got takeaway from the Tapas restaurant. Same great choice of food, same free wine. They could have eaten on 5H balcony, with all 8 kids asleep inside 5G.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 20, 2016, 10:19:36 PM
They would have got takeaway from the Tapas restaurant. Same great choice of food, same free wine. They could have eaten on 5H balcony, with all 8 kids asleep inside 5G.
Great thinking Peggs I mentioned that to my friend, so you have to wonder why they didn't do that and chose to leave the kids unattended. I mean not even a physical check FGS.
AND that would have been like 'sitting in the garden'?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: misty on May 20, 2016, 10:21:35 PM
They would have got takeaway from the Tapas restaurant. Same great choice of food, same free wine. They could have eaten on 5H balcony, with all 8 kids asleep inside 5G.
Poor Mrs Fenn!
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 20, 2016, 10:32:30 PM
Great thinking Peggs I mentioned that to my friend, so you have to wonder why they didn't do that and chose to leave the kids unattended. I mean not even a physical check FGS.
AND that would have been like 'sitting in the garden'?
Because it felt safe leaving them, even with an unlocked door, "it wasnt even a decision"
I thought they had decided before the holiday?? To do a listening service
Eta of course she could be white lying just to save face but even that never washed with the GBP and of course you are right, what kind of parents of toddlers dont look round the door when "checking" after being out...even sitting in your own secure house you stick your head around....but they went out with an unlocked door and on "checking" didnt even bother to see if they were still there, alive, breathng or go in for a kiss.....truly a very very bizarre couple
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 20, 2016, 10:45:09 PM
Great thinking Peggs I mentioned that to my friend, so you have to wonder why they didn't do that and chose to leave the kids unattended. I mean not even a physical check FGS.
AND that would have been like 'sitting in the garden'?
Several couples did get takeaway from Tapas that evening specifically because they couldn't get a table
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 20, 2016, 10:54:48 PM
Actual statements by some of the people who were prevented (by the T9) from eating at Tapas:
"On the night of Madeleine McCann's disappearance we could not get a table at the Tapas bar and decided to get a takeaway from there and have it at the apartment" (Proc15 p3907 - 3908)
"I tried to reserve a table at the Tapas Bar for that night but it was fully booked ... we decided to order a meal from the restaurant and we dined together in our apartment" (CR5 30-32)
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 20, 2016, 11:01:10 PM
Also this:
"I believe that there was some sort of agreement with the tapas bar, as they appeared to have a reservation every night, and it was impossible for other guests to book a spot there." (CR5 25-29)
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 20, 2016, 11:11:02 PM
That was MTI not me Pegasus. Anyway, as an aside someone here claimed lots of other british holidaymakers also left their kids alone when out eating but never of course cited a single syllable froj anywhere. It does seem this group felt it was OK as a whole rather than usng the free night creche and dining wherever they wanted.But this discussion became boring years ago.their choice, their risk.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 21, 2016, 06:51:56 AM
Ah, the 'tall man'
The question asked, regarding the fact that, possibly, on the first day it was RUSSELL who had made the reservation at the restaurant, she admits that as possible, although she cannot be sure which of the two (RACHEL or RUSSELL) would have done it. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
A strange snippet;
The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 21, 2016, 09:10:48 AM
The question asked, regarding the fact that, possibly, on the first day it was RUSSELL who had made the reservation at the restaurant, she admits that as possible, although she cannot be sure which of the two (RACHEL or RUSSELL) would have done it. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
A strange snippet;
The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm
Were these 'shutter' not actually internal blinds, either horizontal or vertical? It would seem unlikely that they would be lifting a vertical device to gain access each time.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 21, 2016, 03:17:44 PM
Quote
"The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm
IMO this can only be a misunderstanding by the translator, of what the witness said.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 21, 2016, 03:27:26 PM
Why should you think this? Why would you doubt the translation as it stands?
Are there photos available that show what these shutters look like?
Certainly the lounge balcony door has two external metal shutters. IMO they were in the raised position that evening. The translator misunderstood what RO was saying IMO.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 21, 2016, 03:44:55 PM
Certainly the lounge balcony door has two external metal shutters. IMO they were in the raised position that evening. The translator misunderstood what RO was saying IMO.
Why should you assume that the translator was wrong, rather than RO ?
Gerry did say, in his first statement, that he had accessed the apartment via a key, so perhaps the shutters were down, just as RO said.
Was this the reason Kate was so adamant that Madeleine could not have wandered?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 21, 2016, 07:02:25 PM
Only if she left of her own volition. If she was removed by an adult, she could have left from north or south door.
If the shutters of the lounge balcony door were down, exit that way by anyone (child or adult) would be impossible without raising one of its shutters.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 21, 2016, 07:29:10 PM
If the shutters of the lounge balcony door were down, exit that way by anyone (child or adult) would be impossible without raising one of its shutters.
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 21, 2016, 11:03:52 PM
OK let's assume the metal shutters of the lounge balcony door were closed all evening, and the checks were via the wooden door.
That scenario would mean that the child, by whatever means, left the apartment via the wooden door.
The front door was probably not/not locked according to the mccann statements, so all it would take is the child to open the door usng the handle, I must add I find this also irresponsible and bizarre if you dont mind me saying!
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 22, 2016, 12:22:23 AM
The front door was probably not/not locked according to the mccann statements, so all it would take is the child to open the door usng the handle, I must add I find this also irresponsible and bizarre if you dont mind me saying!
They left the patio doors unlocked and didn't even check whether the window or front door were unlocked too. Could there be a more irresponsible set of, allegedly , intelligent parents ?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 22, 2016, 01:42:09 AM
They left the patio doors unlocked and didn't even check whether the window or front door were unlocked too. Could there be a more irresponsible set of, allegedly , intelligent parents ?
They would have remembered if they deadlocked the main door. If not deadlocked, it can easily be opened from inside by a 3 yr old.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 22, 2016, 08:50:05 AM
What does Kate McCann have to say about the Tapas booking? No mention of a tall man, Rachael is the one who told the receptionist they were leaving the children alone. Hand on heart it never crossed Kate's mind that leaving the children alone was a bad idea. Well, that's true. According to some she didn't want to go if there was no listening service, so she was committed to leaving the children alone right from the start. She emphasises that it was a joint decision, but not when it was decided. It was decided because the restaurant was so near. If it was decided before they went could they have known the layout before they went? Could they have known where they were going to be housed? Without knowing that, how could they have been able to decide to create their own listening service?
Today [Sunday] we’d been able to make a dinner reservation for the adult contingent at the poolside Tapas restaurant. Apparently, this restaurant, a canopied outdoor addition to the bar, catered for only up to fifteen diners in the evenings, and reservations could not be made until the morning of the day in question.....As the restaurant was so near, we collectively decided to do our own child-checking service. This decision, one that we all made,....Speaking for myself, I can say, hand on heart, that it never once crossed my mind that this might not be a safe option.....In spite of what we’d been told about booking the Tapas restaurant, Rachael managed to get a table for nine at 8.30pm pencilled in for the rest of the week after having a word with the receptionist at thepool and Tapas area.....the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently Madeleine Kate McCann
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 09:37:26 AM
What does Kate McCann have to say about the Tapas booking? No mention of a tall man, Rachael is the one who told the receptionist they were leaving the children alone. Hand on heart it never crossed Kate's mind that leaving the children alone was a bad idea. Well, that's true. According to some she didn't want to go if there was no listening service, so she was committed to leaving the children alone right from the start. She emphasises that it was a joint decision, but not when it was decided. It was decided because the restaurant was so near. If it was decided before they went could they have known the layout before they went? Could they have known where they were going to be housed? Without knowing that, how could they have been able to decide to create their own listening service?
Today [Sunday] we’d been able to make a dinner reservation for the adult contingent at the poolside Tapas restaurant. Apparently, this restaurant, a canopied outdoor addition to the bar, catered for only up to fifteen diners in the evenings, and reservations could not be made until the morning of the day in question.....As the restaurant was so near, we collectively decided to do our own child-checking service. This decision, one that we all made,....Speaking for myself, I can say, hand on heart, that it never once crossed my mind that this might not be a safe option.....In spite of what we’d been told about booking the Tapas restaurant, Rachael managed to get a table for nine at 8.30pm pencilled in for the rest of the week after having a word with the receptionist at thepool and Tapas area.....the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently Madeleine Kate McCann
I wonder if someone else who managed to squeeze into the tapas restaurant despite a whole table being commandeered by a party of nine (WOW ... how the mind boggles at the selfishness of that!!) might have been taking a close note of the comings and goings from that table.
I would have been much more interested in fleshing out the information in the files regarding the booking forms and other diners ~ I think the police have sorted out the tapas nine and their comings and goings long since. Who knows who else was dining ... and who may have been watching and taking note.
Even the Amaral investigation had checked it out and could pin nothing on them despite infamous "inconsistencies".
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 10:16:33 AM
I wonder if someone else who managed to squeeze into the tapas restaurant despite a whole table being commandeered by a party of nine (WOW ... how the mind boggles at the selfishness of that!!) might have been taking a close note of the comings and goings from that table.
I would have been much more interested in fleshing out the information in the files regarding the booking forms and other diners ~ I think the police have sorted out the tapas nine and their comings and goings long since. Who knows who else was dining ... and who may have been watching and taking note.
Even the Amaral investigation had checked it out and could pin nothing on them despite infamous "inconsistencies".
I don't think many people's mind will be boggling, trying to establish just how selfigh these Tapas people were/ still are. IMO
The inconsistances are not made up brietta, all there for people to read, so no need to put that word in "".
The fact is: they didned there and lft their children alone that is the crux of this story.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 01:13:00 PM
I don't think many people's mind will be boggling, trying to establish just how selfigh these Tapas people were/ still are. IMO
The inconsistances are not made up brietta, all there for people to read, so no need to put that word in "".
The fact is: they didned there and lft their children alone that is the crux of this story.
We know they dined there. What we don't know is, did the abductor or any of his/her associates dine there also.
The restaurant was a logical observation point. Could have been so much more convenient to sit down to a quiet meal and reconnoitre movements from the McCann table than having to lurk about outside.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 22, 2016, 01:26:56 PM
We know they dined there. What we don't know is, did the abductor or any of his/her associates dine there also.
The restaurant was a logical observation point. Could have been so much more convenient to sit down to a quiet meal and reconnoitre movements from the McCann table than having to lurk about outside.
Here you go again, abductor, and not a shred of evidence to support it above any other scenario.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
Here you go again, abductor, and not a shred of evidence to support it above any other scenario.
Even Sharon Osbourne, the new truth speaker, believes Madeleine was abducted. What better location was there for an abductor to sit and observe the movements of the McCann party than from another table in the tapas restaurant. Quite a relaxed and logical thing to do. In My Opinion, of course.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 22, 2016, 01:52:14 PM
We know they dined there. What we don't know is, did the abductor or any of his/her associates dine there also.
The restaurant was a logical observation point. Could have been so much more convenient to sit down to a quiet meal and reconnoitre movements from the McCann table than having to lurk about outside.
Is the gang having a reccy inside the Tapas Bar the same as the gang which had a reccy by standing on corners watching or the gang that had a reccy knocking on doors or a composite of all three?
Were there actually any tourists in Luz that week?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 22, 2016, 01:55:33 PM
Even Sharon Osbourne, the new truth speaker, believes Madeleine was abducted. What better location was there for an abductor to sit and observe the movements of the McCann party than from another table in the tapas restaurant. Quite a relaxed and logical thing to do. In My Opinion, of course.
Yet she doesn't say abduction.
Now Brietta, how much does she know about the case ?
Any ideas ? 8(>((
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 22, 2016, 02:44:20 PM
Now Brietta, how much does she know about the case ?
Any ideas ? 8(>((
According to headlines and reports Ms Osbourne is spouting from a position of ignorance. Is that global or selective one has to ask. If she [Ms O.] says "taken" and it is read by supporters as "abducted" to further their argument then as Ms Osbourne is spouting from a position of ignorance then the comment in itself is worthless in the argument. One must conclude there is the usual selectivity being applied in this case. Ah well the rest of what she said was blx but the taken =abducted is right. It's almost as much fun as discussing midgets with Texans. They are never sure whether their midgets are the biggest or the smallest........................
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 02:56:54 PM
Is the gang having a reccy inside the Tapas Bar the same as the gang which had a reccy by standing on corners watching or the gang that had a reccy knocking on doors or a composite of all three?
Were there actually any tourists in Luz that week?
Yeah, they must have looked right out of place with all them child stealing burglurs, blood seeking ancestors, paedophile gangs, demented childless couples looking to bag a child of ther own from unsuspecting tourists.
Alice quote "According to headlines and reports Ms Osbourne is spouting from a position of ignorance. Is that global or selective one has to ask. If she [Ms O.] says "taken" and it is read by supporters as "abducted" to further their argument then as Ms Osbourne is spouting from a position of ignorance then the comment in itself is worthless in the argument."
Yes, spin it ! spin it! The McCanns are doing well with their 'tinternet people' looking out for their well being and protecting their reputation.. which according to some areas seems not to be what they want it to be ah well never mind.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 03:07:07 PM
Is the gang having a reccy inside the Tapas Bar the same as the gang which had a reccy by standing on corners watching or the gang that had a reccy knocking on doors or a composite of all three?
Were there actually any tourists in Luz that week?
If I were getting paid enough for a job, I would be sure of covering all the bases.
One of the bases among others was the tapas bar ... if not, why do we have a whole thread devoted to it?
I would have assumed that would have been an elementary starting point in any investigation. However since no-one seemed too bothered about picking up the cigarette ends left at a vantage point overlooking 5A which may or may not have contained relevant DNA ~ why would anyone bother to check if there might have been some sort of surveillance from the tapas?
I believe there were tourists in Luz that week ... one of whom vanished ... and it is police attitudes mirrored by posts like yours which may have allowed the perpetrator nine years of grace to cover tracks.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 22, 2016, 03:13:43 PM
I wonder if someone else who managed to squeeze into the tapas restaurant despite a whole table being commandeered by a party of nine (WOW ... how the mind boggles at the selfishness of that!!) might have been taking a close note of the comings and goings from that table.
I would have been much more interested in fleshing out the information in the files regarding the booking forms and other diners ~ I think the police have sorted out the tapas nine and their comings and goings long since. Who knows who else was dining ... and who may have been watching and taking note.
Even the Amaral investigation had checked it out and could pin nothing on them despite infamous "inconsistencies".
This thread is about the Tapas bookings and some quite interesting facts have emerged. It seems the decision to create their own 'listening service' was probably taken at the time of booking the holiday before they had seen the resort, let alone before they had seen how 'quiet' and 'safe' it seemed.
It also seems there's a difference of opinion between the receptionist and the group as to who made the block booking. Does it matter? Only to the group, for some reason. They forgot all sorts of details but they all remembered it was Rachael who made the block booking. They weren't sure when or how, but they remembered who.
May I suggest you begin a thread to 'flesh out the information in the files regarding the booking forms and other diners' if you would find that 'much more interesting'? It might be an idea not to cast aspersions on other Mark Warner guests without any evidence, however.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 03:19:40 PM
If I were getting paid enough for a job, I would be sure of covering all the bases.
One of the bases among others was the tapas bar ... if not, why do we have a whole thread devoted to it?
I would have assumed that would have been an elementary starting point in any investigation. However since no-one seemed too bothered about picking up the cigarette ends left at a vantage point overlooking 5A which may or may not have contained relevant DNA ~ why would anyone bother to check if there might have been some sort of surveillance from the tapas?
I believe there were tourists in Luz that week ... one of whom vanished ... and it is police attitudes mirrored by posts like yours which may have allowed the perpetrator nine years of grace to cover tracks.
mm Yes, we know it was the police and Alice's fault that Maddie hasn't been found, nothing to do with the parents who couldn't see or hear their children or the windows and doors ( one which was left unlocked) they were left behind in, you would think though, that with all the coming and going with the vigorous checking being claimed, that the parents would have noticed something ... but then Gerry and Jez didn't see Jane Tanner or the abductor walking off with Maddie...Tsk is there anyone else we can blame here?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 03:22:44 PM
mm Yes, we know it was the police and Alice's fault that Maddie hasn't been found, nothing to do with the parents who couldn't see or hear their children or the windows and doors ( one which was left unlocked) they were left behind in, you would think though, that with all the coming and going with the vigorous checking being claimed, that the parents would have noticed something ... but then Gerry and Jez didn't see Jane Tanner or the abductor walking off with Maddie...Tsk is there anyone else we can blame here?
The person or persons responsible for "taking" Madeleine ... ie the abductor/s?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 03:28:25 PM
If I were getting paid enough for a job, I would be sure of covering all the bases.
One of the bases among others was the tapas bar ... if not, why do we have a whole thread devoted to it?
I would have assumed that would have been an elementary starting point in any investigation. However since no-one seemed too bothered about picking up the cigarette ends left at a vantage point overlooking 5A which may or may not have contained relevant DNA ~ why would anyone bother to check if there might have been some sort of surveillance from the tapas?
I believe there were tourists in Luz that week ... one of whom vanished ... and it is police attitudes mirrored by posts like yours which may have allowed the perpetrator nine years of grace to cover tracks.
1. Good question. This is an internet forum chatting about things that interest the punters which may be poles apart from what the cops found relevant to the investigation. Whatever you may think of the PJ they are the police force with primacy. 2. You really are very funny. As if my posts have any influence on "the abductor" should he/she/they exist.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 04:31:58 PM
This thread is about the Tapas bookings and some quite interesting facts have emerged. It seems the decision to create their own 'listening service' was probably taken at the time of booking the holiday before they had seen the resort, let alone before they had seen how 'quiet' and 'safe' it seemed.
It also seems there's a difference of opinion between the receptionist and the group as to who made the block booking. Does it matter? Only to the group, for some reason. They forgot all sorts of details but they all remembered it was Rachael who made the block booking. They weren't sure when or how, but they remembered who.
May I suggest you begin a thread to 'flesh out the information in the files regarding the booking forms and other diners' if you would find that 'much more interesting'? It might be an idea not to cast aspersions on other Mark Warner guests without any evidence, however.
You seeking special treatment here? what makes them so different lol WE are all in it together dontcha know.
Alas poor jorvik is being accused of preventing Maddie being found. Shame on you I say! Could you stop posting just to see if that does make a difference to the SY and PJ 'search' thankies. I am a stickler for evidence.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 05:29:53 PM
This thread is about the Tapas bookings and some quite interesting facts have emerged. It seems the decision to create their own 'listening service' was probably taken at the time of booking the holiday before they had seen the resort, let alone before they had seen how 'quiet' and 'safe' it seemed.
It also seems there's a difference of opinion between the receptionist and the group as to who made the block booking. Does it matter? Only to the group, for some reason. They forgot all sorts of details but they all remembered it was Rachael who made the block booking. They weren't sure when or how, but they remembered who.
May I suggest you begin a thread to 'flesh out the information in the files regarding the booking forms and other diners' if you would find that 'much more interesting'? It might be an idea not to cast aspersions on other Mark Warner guests without any evidence, however.
Your thread concerns the tapas bookings ... but apparently only in relation to a table of nine diners. Evidently a myopia which enables you to cancel out the other tables of diners, people visiting the toilet, people waiting for a carry out meal etc ~ into a total irrelevance.
The nine sitting at that table have been thoroughly investigated resulting in no suggestion they had a hand in Madeleine's disappearance. One can only wonder at the resistance to the idea an abductor (they do eat, I suppose) might have been sitting in that restaurant watching and taking note of the movements of the nine.
Might I respectfully point out all nine named persons at that table have aspersions cast at them every minute of every day ... "inconsistency" is one word ... but there are many more. Surprised you haven't noticed and raised an eyebrow at that.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 05:54:16 PM
&%+((£
Eyebrow raised. The Tapas 9 borught these 'questions about their story of abduction upon themselves'. Amaral, Mark Warner company and staff, local residents, did nothing to encourage the decision for the tapas 9 to leave their children unattended night after night. The Tapas group made the decision before they left for a holiday, hence why The Payne's took a baby listening monitor with them.
They were the last know people to have seen Maddie alive, they will, and should remain, a link to what happened.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 06:07:42 PM
Eyebrow raised. The Tapas 9 borught these 'questions about their story of abduction upon themselves'. Amaral, Mark Warner company and staff, local residents, did nothing to encourage the decision for the tapas 9 to leave their children unattended night after night. The Tapas group made the decision before they left for a holiday, hence why The Payne's took a baby listening monitor with them.
They were the last know people to have seen Maddie alive, they will, and should remain, a link to what happened.
These nine people have been thoroughly investigated regarding Madeleine McCann's disappearance and there is not one shred of evidence against any one of them.
If not one of the nine had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance it stands to reason someone did. Whether as part of a conspiracy to kidnap or as an opportunistic crime, whether carried out by a lone predator or with accomplices ~ a stranger took Madeleine McCann.
I find it extraordinary there is no condemnation of the criminal or criminals who committed the crime.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 22, 2016, 06:17:29 PM
These nine people have been thoroughly investigated regarding Madeleine McCann's disappearance and there is not one shred of evidence against any one of them.
If not one of the nine had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance it stands to reason someone did. Whether as part of a conspiracy to kidnap or as an opportunistic crime, whether carried out by a lone predator or with accomplices ~ a stranger took Madeleine McCann.
I find it extraordinary there is no condemnation of the criminal or criminals who committed the crime.
Oh I wholeheartedly condemn what happened to Madeleine McCann during her holiday. When we know for sure precisely the extent of what that was one hopes a successful prosecution will be brought finding someone guilty in a court of law then one hopes the full force of the law will be applied. That will be Portuguese law of course culminating in a term in a Portuguese gaol if justice is to be seen to be served.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 06:28:12 PM
This was swiped??? The behaviour of some is getting desperate.
These nine people have been thoroughly investigated regarding Madeleine McCann's disappearance and there is not one shred of evidence against any one of them.
If not one of the nine had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance it stands to reason someone did. Whether as part of a conspiracy to kidnap or as an opportunistic crime, whether carried out by a lone predator or with accomplices ~ a stranger took Madeleine McCann.
I find it extraordinary there is no condemnation of the criminal or criminals who committed the crime.
There is no evidence as yet. as there is no evidence of an abduction as there is no evidence a stranger or strangers did something. NO evidence so by your reckoning as there is no evidence of anything, including the Tapas, nothing has happened and this is just Alice in Wonderland stuff?
" QuoteI find it extraordinary there is no condemnation of the criminal or criminals who committed the crime."
Oh it's all a bit early for that discussion- we have established, have you not, there is no evidence of Tapas involvement or strangers being involved or evidence of Maddie being dead or alive. So as and when the criminal/s are caught-charged- found guilty I will be there with the baying crowd demanding they get punished appropriately!
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 06:54:05 PM
This was swiped??? The behaviour of some is getting desperate.
There is no evidence as yet. as there is no evidence of an abduction as there is no evidence a stranger or strangers did something. NO evidence so by your reckoning as there is no evidence of anything, including the Tapas, nothing has happened and this is just Alice in Wonderland stuff?
" QuoteI find it extraordinary there is no condemnation of the criminal or criminals who committed the crime."
Oh it's all a bit early for that discussion- we have established, have you not, there is no evidence of Tapas involvement or strangers being involved or evidence of Maddie being dead or alive. So as and when the criminal/s are caught-charged- found guilty I will be there with the baying crowd demanding they get punished appropriately!
If and when alleged perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine McCann are apprehended and there is sufficient evidence to bring them to trial ... I will be happy to allow the law to take its course and hope the resolution of Madeleine's case will be a propitious one which she will be there to enjoy.
The last thing I would contemplate would be participating as part of a baying crowd. There has been way too much of that behaviour over the past nine years.
Evidence of absence is evidence therefore the fact that Madeleine is not at home with her family is evidence
There is eye witness evidence of strangers
Shining has written a succinct account of why the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance may have got off on the back foot ... https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2016/05/16/madeleine-smithman-challenge-1/
The pity is that it never picked up from there.
However, if as this thread might suggest the tapas bookings were pivotal to the investigation ... why was the blanket coverage approach abandoned in favour of concentration on the most investigated individuals in Luz (Robert Murat and his associates apart) to the exclusion of investigating those who might have been of interest or not among the other people using the restaurant that week.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 22, 2016, 06:59:14 PM
If and when alleged perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine McCann are apprehended and there is sufficient evidence to bring them to trial ... I will be happy to allow the law to take its course and hope the resolution of Madeleine's case will be a propitious one which she will be there to enjoy.
The last thing I would contemplate would be participating as part of a baying crowd. There has been way too much of that behaviour over the past nine years.
Evidence of absence is evidence therefore the fact that Madeleine is not at home with her family is evidence
There is eye witness evidence of strangers
Shining has written a succinct account of why the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance may have got off on the back foot ... https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2016/05/16/madeleine-smithman-challenge-1/
The pity is that it never picked up from there.
However, if as this thread might suggest the tapas bookings were pivotal to the investigation ... why was the blanket coverage approach abandoned in favour of concentration on the most investigated individuals in Luz (Robert Murat and his associates apart) to the exclusion of investigating those who might have been of interest or not among the other people using the restaurant that week.
Madeleine not in the apartment, and no sign of her since that night in 2007, is evidence of accidental death, or of her walking out of the apartment.
Eye witness of strangers seeing some person or persons staring at a building, doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 22, 2016, 07:06:38 PM
If and when alleged perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine McCann are apprehended and there is sufficient evidence to bring them to trial ... I will be happy to allow the law to take its course and hope the resolution of Madeleine's case will be a propitious one which she will be there to enjoy.
The last thing I would contemplate would be participating as part of a baying crowd. There has been way too much of that behaviour over the past nine years.
Evidence of absence is evidence therefore the fact that Madeleine is not at home with her family is evidence
There is eye witness evidence of strangers
Shining has written a succinct account of why the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance may have got off on the back foot ... https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2016/05/16/madeleine-smithman-challenge-1/
The pity is that it never picked up from there.
However, if as this thread might suggest the tapas bookings were pivotal to the investigation ... why was the blanket coverage approach abandoned in favour of concentration on the most investigated individuals in Luz (Robert Murat and his associates apart) to the exclusion of investigating those who might have been of interest or not among the other people using the restaurant that week.
in red - that was 'tongue in cheek' I have no intentions of going to portugal.
snip
Evidence of absence is evidence therefore the fact that Madeleine is not at home with her family is evidence
There is eye witness evidence of strangers
snip
ok yes there is evidence that Maddie has not come home with her parents. That is ll the evidence we have, nothing else!
There is eyewitness of strangers? well there would be as it was full of strangers, apart from the Tapas group who knew each other, and the staff, and local residents. I know any holiday I go on the place is bloody full of people I don't know.
Snip why was the blanket coverage approach abandoned in favour of concentration on the most investigated individuals in Luz (Robert Murat and his associates apart) to the exclusion of investigating those who might have been of interest or not among the other people using the restaurant that week. snip
Maybe because of the parents behaviour/inconsistant stories and UK police giving advice gave rise to suspicion.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 22, 2016, 07:30:59 PM
Your thread concerns the tapas bookings ... but apparently only in relation to a table of nine diners. Evidently a myopia which enables you to cancel out the other tables of diners, people visiting the toilet, people waiting for a carry out meal etc ~ into a total irrelevance.
The nine sitting at that table have been thoroughly investigated resulting in no suggestion they had a hand in Madeleine's disappearance. One can only wonder at the resistance to the idea an abductor (they do eat, I suppose) might have been sitting in that restaurant watching and taking note of the movements of the nine.
Might I respectfully point out all nine named persons at that table have aspersions cast at them every minute of every day ... "inconsistency" is one word ... but there are many more. Surprised you haven't noticed and raised an eyebrow at that.
You seem to be getting very excited about this thread, Brietta. I say again, instead of complaining why don't you set up a thread discussing the matters you are concerned about? It does involve digging about in the files to get the information but I'm sure that won't be a problem for you. You might find a remark by a waiter about someone who was concentrating on writing in their notebook labelled 'Movements of the naive twerps who have told the receptionist and other holidaymakers that their cute little kids are being left home alone every evening'
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 22, 2016, 08:00:50 PM
You seem to be getting very excited about this thread, Brietta. I say again, instead of complaining why don't you set up a thread discussing the matters you are concerned about? It does involve digging about in the files to get the information but I'm sure that won't be a problem for you. You might find a remark by a waiter about someone who was concentrating on writing in their notebook labelled 'Movements of the naive twerps who have told the receptionist and other holidaymakers that their cute little kids are being left home alone every evening'
I'll leave most of the 'digging about' in the files to those whose forte it is ...
Particularly as the evidence I am interested in never made it to the files. Quite simply because the relevant questions were not asked of the relevant people at the most propitious time in the investigation which was shortly after Madeleine's disappearance. The investigation was being driven not in the direction of 'stranger danger' but rather towards an 'inside job' as Mr Amaral confirms in his book and I believe, Ricardo Paiva has confirmed in court.
A discussion on who else of interest might have been dining in the tapas restaurant at the same time as the nine, or who may have taken the opportunity to observe them from there sits very nicely on a thread discussing the tapas bookings, don't you think? Err well ... obviously not ... but it does however broaden the speculative base rather.
Particularly as none of the nine are either suspects nor persons of interest in Madeleine's disappearance ... leaving the field wide open to pursue other options about everyone else present on the night who have not undergone such thorough vetting from two Portuguese investigations one under Amaral and one under Rebelo.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: slartibartfast on May 22, 2016, 08:03:10 PM
There seemed to have been a fair amount of illness amongst the T9 parents and kids that week, does anyone have a defintive list.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 22, 2016, 08:11:49 PM
You seem to be getting very excited about this thread, Brietta. I say again, instead of complaining why don't you set up a thread discussing the matters you are concerned about? It does involve digging about in the files to get the information but I'm sure that won't be a problem for you. You might find a remark by a waiter about someone who was concentrating on writing in their notebook labelled 'Movements of the naive twerps who have told the receptionist and other holidaymakers that their cute little kids are being left home alone every evening'
Approaching this from a somewhat different angle, doesn't it intrigue you what the other diners in the Tapas restaurant saw from Sun-Thu that week?
The Tapas restaurant is not large and 9 diners (barring illness) sitting at a single big round table (BRT) should have stuck out like a sore thumb.
Waiters, IMO, would have noticed only a little as they served.
Bar staff, IMO, would have noticed next to nothing, at least until the T9 decided to move from wine to a nightcap.
That leaves other diners as the best independent witnesses to the checking routine. Was the T9 quiet or animated? Were people frequently leaving the restaurant, for whatever reason?
My last 2 meals out in Luz have basically been trashed by a lot of noise generated by others. Both times I was trying to have a quiet, discreet discussion of aspects of the case. In the first instance, we picked a quiet table and everything went well, until a party of 6 arrived and chose a table quite near us. There was one woman who thought the only way to talk was at least at 80dB, and quite soon her party of 6 were all shouting. Then the other diners found that the only way they could make themselves heard was to shout louder than the party of 6, and the restaurant turned into a battle of who could talk the loudest. In the second instance, the restaurant owners had a young boy of about 3 who was running around playing, shouting as he went. No quiet conversation there either.
There is a list of people who, potentially, can provide evidence on the checking routine of the Tapas 9. That list is those diners occupying the Tapas restaurant at the same time as the T9.
Did the PJ check this in Amaral or Rebelo's time? I can't see anything to support this.
Did any of the McCann PIs check this? Presumably not, this would be outside their remit.
Did OG check this? Presumably not, given the OG remit.
Will another McCann team check this? I'm guessing not, again based on a remit idea.
But all of this lot should/should have check(ed) this, because it imposes restrictions on an abduction or alternative theories.
The folks who can provide independent verification of what was happening during the Tapas meals are the other diners.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: slartibartfast on May 22, 2016, 08:12:56 PM
I'll leave most of the 'digging about' in the files to those whose forte it is ...
Particularly as the evidence I am interested in never made it to the files. Quite simply because the relevant questions were not asked of the relevant people at the most propitious time in the investigation which was shortly after Madeleine's disappearance. The investigation was being driven not in the direction of 'stranger danger' but rather towards an 'inside job' as Mr Amaral confirms in his book and I believe, Ricardo Paiva has confirmed in court.
A discussion on who else of interest might have been dining in the tapas restaurant at the same time as the nine, or who may have taken the opportunity to observe them from there sits very nicely on a thread discussing the tapas bookings, don't you think? Err well ... obviously not ... but it does however broaden the speculative base rather.
Particularly as none of the nine are either suspects nor persons of interest in Madeleine's disappearance ... leaving the field wide open to pursue other options about everyone else present on the night who have not undergone such thorough vetting from two Portuguese investigations one under Amaral and one under Rebelo.
It's a bit of Audacter calumniare, aliquid semper haeret.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 22, 2016, 09:10:45 PM
I was interested in the group's bookings, no-one else's. My interest arose because the receptionist who took the booking seems to have mistaken a small dark haired woman for a tall thin man accompanied by a child. As far as I know there's no information about anyone else's booking routine, so I can't discuss that. All we know is that there was some concern about the group's apparently privileged status.
Those who wish to broaden the discussion should start another thread instead of highjacking this one. How anyone can be interested in evidence which doesn't exist I don't know. Still, it makes it easier to speculate I suppose, and harder for others to refute the speculations.
I would be very interested in knowing what other diners had to say, but no interviews are in the files, so I can't.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 22, 2016, 09:30:49 PM
How does one define "a stranger" in a holiday resort which by definition has a high transient population aka "strangers".
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 23, 2016, 08:16:58 PM
I am just wondering, why they claimed 'it felt safe' as a reason for leaving the children, when they had every intention of leaving them alone while they dined anyway, before they even set foot on a plane to get there.
The devil is in the detail.
ALWAYS seek the little pennies , when collected, they build into pounds!
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 23, 2016, 10:10:35 PM
Perhaps everyne got to know everyone on holiday and everyone living in the whole village so there were strangers noticed?
&%+((£
What interests me more is the emphasis put on people staring at the apartment or towards it meaning they were dodgy and planning an abduction. What if they were just admiring the bouganvilia bushes, or waiting for a mate or a lift.
Seems to me the PJ were expected to be the worlds super police force and failed each tme they didnt investigate something just in case. LIke the pile of fags in a nearby apartment balcony could have meant someone was spying on 5a. Well, tell that to every smoker who doesnt smoke inside the house. It is impossible the police could have investigated every little thng that "might" have meant something. Especially when half their time was taken chasing bogus sightngs whh were due to the world wide media campaign.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 23, 2016, 11:17:11 PM
Perhaps everyne got to know everyone on holiday and everyone living in the whole village so there were strangers noticed?
&%+((£
What interests me more is the emphasis put on people staring at the apartment or towards it meaning they were dodgy and planning an abduction. What if they were just admiring the bouganvilia bushes, or waiting for a mate or a lift.
Seems to me the PJ were expected to be the worlds super police force and failed each tme they didnt investigate something just in case. LIke the pile of fags in a nearby apartment balcony could have meant someone was spying on 5a. Well, tell that to every smoker who doesnt smoke inside the house. It is impossible the police could have investigated every little thng that "might" have meant something. Especially when half their time was taken chasing bogus sightngs whh were due to the world wide media campaign.
Well, it is interesting that these 'ready to pounce abductors' were quite relaxed about their 'mission', they forgot to 'hide' like 'normal' ready to pounce abductors- I mean the witneses were total cowards not to phone the police or alert someone that 'strangers' were.... standing and... yeah I blame the police for not phoning the tapas bar and asking if there were any strangers needing to be reported- could have saved a lot of heartache for everyone.
* does a twirl* as I am still being watched... just in case...
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 23, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Is the notion of a holiday apartment being watched (cased) for several days before being entered illegally completely absurd, in the view of the sceptics of this forum?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 23, 2016, 11:45:40 PM
Is the notion of a holiday apartment being watched (cased) for several days before being entered illegally completely absurd, in the view of the sceptics of this forum?
No, not entirely. We have neighbourhood watch in our area. There have been many reported sightings of people approaching properties where families were on holiday. It works. But, in this case and the implications of it are absurd in my opinion. For reasons too obvious IF the flat was being watched over several days they would know children were left alone at night. on one occasion it was reported by Maddie that Sean was crying and where were they(the parents) So on that basis burglars would avoid that at all costs! AND if they were so noticable why not report them to the police ?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 26, 2016, 07:13:12 PM
No, not entirely. We have neighbourhood watch in our area. There have been many reported sightings of people approaching properties where families were on holiday. It works. But, in this case and the implications of it are absurd in my opinion. For reasons too obvious IF the flat was being watched over several days they would know children were left alone at night. on one occasion it was reported by Maddie that Sean was crying and where were they(the parents) So on that basis burglars would avoid that at all costs! AND if they were so noticable why not report them to the police ?
I don't follow your logic sorry. If the apartment was being watched over several days then yes, they would know the kids were being left unattended, so what's absurd about that? No one is suggesting that the casing of Apartment 5a happened all night long, every night so those casing the joint wouldn't necessarily have known children inside had been crying, or have heard them even if they were still lurking in the area. And so what if they had? If someone is intent on taking a child from a room of small children, the possibility of one or all of them making a noise would surely already have been considered. But if you knew that it would take a minimum of 2 minutes before a parent would come to investigate then that would give you enough time to take a child and leave the area, especially if traveling by car. Nothing at all absurd about it is there really?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 26, 2016, 07:36:05 PM
Is the notion of a holiday apartment being watched (cased) for several days before being entered illegally completely absurd, in the view of the sceptics of this forum?
So come on then, as you believe in abduction, why wouldn't an abductor take her younger sibling ?
After all, she is of the same bloodline ? 8)-)))
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 27, 2016, 12:23:26 AM
I don't follow your logic sorry. If the apartment was being watched over several days then yes, they would know the kids were being left unattended, so what's absurd about that? No one is suggesting that the casing of Apartment 5a happened all night long, every night so those casing the joint wouldn't necessarily have known children inside had been crying, or have heard them even if they were still lurking in the area. And so what if they had? If someone is intent on taking a child from a room of small children, the possibility of one or all of them making a noise would surely already have been considered. But if you knew that it would take a minimum of 2 minutes before a parent would come to investigate then that would give you enough time to take a child and leave the area, especially if traveling by car. Nothing at all absurd about it is there really?
Why would anyone watch the apartment over several days ? What could they find out ? The family was on holiday so there routine would more than likely change from day to day. One night they might eat dinner out while the next they might decide to stay in and have a takeaway. Anyone watching could never be certain what the occupants of the apartment would do from night to night so what would be the point of watching ?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 27, 2016, 12:37:46 AM
Why would anyone watch the apartment over several days ? What could they find out ? The family was on holiday so there routine would more than likely change from day to day. One night they might each dinner out while the next they might decide to stay in and have a takeaway. Anyone watching could never be certain what the occupants of the apartment would do from night to night so what would be the point of watching ?
It was planned cos maddie was jewish and due to be the new mther of god, do keep up Returning to reality and sanity perhaps there were people watching, no one can peove it one way or the other or similarly think a pile of fags on a nearby balcony means someone was watching vs smeone was a chain smoker outwith their apartment
And the mccanns shouldnt have allowed contamnation of the apartment in the first place something frm their own admission they were aware of while tampering themsleves with the evidence
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 27, 2016, 01:18:18 AM
Doesn't it state in KM's book that another guest had told the T9 that their every-night-booking of tapas was preventing others getting a table?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 27, 2016, 01:26:12 AM
Doesn't it state in KM's book that another guest had told the T9 that their every-night-booking of tapas was preventing others getting a table?
Yes it does but what wasnt stated in kMs BOOK was that they told total strangers they were leaving their kids alone but then had the brass neck to complain that the receptionist left a note for her tapas staff In sharon osbournes words thats insane
8((()*/
So we have this scenario 2 babies and a toddler left alone Back door and front door left unlocked Windows not checked five nights i n a row too Total strangers told kids are alone INSANE is the absolutely correct word
The family friend should be apologising to Sharon Osbourne not the other way around
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 27, 2016, 07:55:23 AM
Yes it does but what wasnt stated in kMs BOOK was that they told total strangers they were leaving their kids alone but then had the brass neck to complain that the receptionist left a note for her tapas staff In sharon osbournes words thats insane
8((()*/
So we have this scenario 2 babies and a toddler left alone Back door and front door left unlocked Windows not checked five nights i n a row too Total strangers told kids are alone INSANE is the absolutely correct word
The family friend should be apologising to Sharon Osbourne not the other way around
That sums up the situation very precisely. 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: carlymichelle on May 27, 2016, 08:17:05 AM
That sums up the situation very precisely. 8((()*/
sure does too bad some cant see it 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Benice on May 27, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
I'm presuming that the claim being made is that telling a stranger that you are leaving your children alone is 'insane' - because being a stranger - you would not know enough about them to trust them with that information - and so you are potentially putting your children in harms way.
And yet some see no potential danger at all in inviting a person who is also just as much a stranger to you and whom you know next to nothing about - to spend hours alone in your apartment babysitting your children?
Strange logic IMO.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 27, 2016, 09:30:28 AM
I'm presuming that the claim being made is that telling a stranger that you are leaving your children alone is 'insane' - because being a stranger - you would not know enough about them to trust them with that information - and so you are potentially putting your children in harms way.
And yet some see no potential danger at all in inviting a person who is also just as much a stranger to you and whom you know next to nothing about - to spend hours alone in your apartment babysitting your children?
Strange logic IMO.
Different strangers is the answer. The baby-sitters were employees of the travel company, they were endorsed by the travel company and could be assumed to have been thoroughly checked out by them.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 27, 2016, 09:33:30 AM
I'm presuming that the claim being made is that telling a stranger that you are leaving your children alone is 'insane' - because being a stranger - you would not know enough about them to trust them with that information - and so you are potentially putting your children in harms way.
And yet some see no potential danger at all in inviting a person who is also just as much a stranger to you and whom you know next to nothing about - to spend hours alone in your apartment babysitting your children?
Strange logic IMO.
A babysitter was available from the creche, and the mccanns and co., had no problem doing that during the daytime.
Your ilogic is staggering.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: carlymichelle on May 27, 2016, 09:36:55 AM
Different strangers is the answer. The baby-sitters were employees of the travel company, they were endorsed by the travel company and could be assumed to have been thoroughly checked out by them.
So on the one hand we must assume that every stranger we meet is capable of harming children and it is 'insane' to mention that you are leaving your children alone to them - but on the other hand strangers who are childminders are above suspicion as checks carried out are 100% foolproof? I presume Vanessa George was checked out by her employers before she was allowed to look after children.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 27, 2016, 10:07:19 AM
So on the one hand we must assume that every stranger we meet is capable of harming children and it is 'insane' to mention that you are leaving your children alone to them - but on the other hand strangers who are childminders are above suspicion as checks carried out are 100% foolproof? I presume Vanessa George was checked out by her employers before she was allowed to look after children.
You run a risk with either. The question here is why the risk was acceptable during the day but not at night.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 27, 2016, 11:10:57 AM
So on the one hand we must assume that every stranger we meet is capable of harming children and it is 'insane' to mention that you are leaving your children alone to them - but on the other hand strangers who are childminders are above suspicion as checks carried out are 100% foolproof? I presume Vanessa George was checked out by her employers before she was allowed to look after children.
I wouldn't trust either of them but if I left my kids alone in an unsecured apartment every night I definitely wouldn't tell anyone.
The baby-sitters were endorsed by the holiday providers who would have been liable had their employees not been checked.
Anyone who trusts any stranger with their kids is 'insane' in my opinion, but I can understand parents trusting the employees of their holiday provider, just as parents trust that nurseries are properly run.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: slartibartfast on May 27, 2016, 11:48:01 AM
So on the one hand we must assume that every stranger we meet is capable of harming children and it is 'insane' to mention that you are leaving your children alone to them - but on the other hand strangers who are childminders are above suspicion as checks carried out are 100% foolproof? I presume Vanessa George was checked out by her employers before she was allowed to look after children.
But a listening service would have been fine?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 27, 2016, 12:42:01 PM
You run a risk with either. The question here is why the risk was acceptable during the day but not at night.
During the day the children were not being looked after in an enclosed space in a one to one basis. During the day the children were involved in activities in public areas, mixing with other children and accompanied by more than one carer.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 27, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
During the day the children were not being looked after in an enclosed space in a one to one basis. During the day the children were involved in activities in public areas, mixing with other children and accompanied by more than one carer.
...and looked after by people they didn't know.
Tut, tut.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 27, 2016, 01:51:23 PM
Why would anyone watch the apartment over several days ? What could they find out ? The family was on holiday so there routine would more than likely change from day to day. One night they might eat dinner out while the next they might decide to stay in and have a takeaway. Anyone watching could never be certain what the occupants of the apartment would do from night to night so what would be the point of watching ?
Why would anyone watch an apartment over several days? To establish the comings and goings of the inhabitants and decide on the best time to strike What could they find out? See above Did the McCanns and their friends evening holiday activities fall into something of a routine or were they all over the place every night, sometimes dragging the kids out, sometimes not?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 27, 2016, 02:10:19 PM
During the day the children were not being looked after in an enclosed space in a one to one basis. During the day the children were involved in activities in public areas, mixing with other children and accompanied by more than one carer.
Do you seriously think that makes a difference? Anglican Church, Catholic Church, Scouts, Guides, Music Teachers, Swimming Instructors.......................etc.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 27, 2016, 07:17:47 PM
So on the one hand we must assume that every stranger we meet is capable of harming children and it is 'insane' to mention that you are leaving your children alone to them - but on the other hand strangers who are childminders are above suspicion as checks carried out are 100% foolproof? I presume Vanessa George was checked out by her employers before she was allowed to look after children.
Yes No Yes.
The thing is VG( VILE DISGUCTING SPECIMEN) imo.... would have been 'innocent' until found guilty in a court of law which would show up on record as such- however if she was a, VDS paedophile, before being found out-( which she was) she would have the same rights as others to be presumed innocent-( you supporters are all about that) whether she was or not! 8(>((
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 27, 2016, 08:21:03 PM
So on the one hand we must assume that every stranger we meet is capable of harming children and it is 'insane' to mention that you are leaving your children alone to them - but on the other hand strangers who are childminders are above suspicion as checks carried out are 100% foolproof? I presume Vanessa George was checked out by her employers before she was allowed to look after children.
I think the scales weigh far heavier on the one side potentally than the other Benice! Add to that the flat was left unsecured and vulnerable to strangers off the street as well. To suggest that using a 20 something female babysitter you interact with daily was more dangerous than telling strangers (and whoever else was withn hearng distance of this) the kids were alone and leaving the flat vulnerable to other strangers is a bit illogical at best IMO. You will call it Mccann bashing, others call it what it is.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 27, 2016, 08:36:10 PM
Why would anyone watch an apartment over several days? To establish the comings and goings of the inhabitants and decide on the best time to strike What could they find out? See above Did the McCanns and their friends evening holiday activities fall into something of a routine or were they all over the place every night, sometimes dragging the kids out, sometimes not?
to see if it was worth breaking into? oh and but well, they would have discovered that there were crying children in that room ( having been watching for several days/nights.) which would be a risk not worth taking, also they would know one of the doors was left unlocked... Do'h and the best time to strike would have been right after the McCanns left the apartment fr their free drinks and meal as' they abducting burglars' would have been aware that the parents would be 'coming and going all night' Double Do'h. Because, well ,you see the thing is :as they claimed to be coming and going all night checking the children no one actually physically checked the children- so Maddie could have been 'abducted' 'stolen' 'kidknapped'just minutes after her parents left...
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: slartibartfast on May 27, 2016, 09:33:19 PM
Other guests who wanted to eat an evening meal at Tapas had to queue up at 9AM in the morning to try to make a reservation.
I don't quite see the point you are trying to make here, Pegasus. Or rather I do, and I am disappointed in a poster of your stature making it.
The resort was hardly bursting at the seams with holidaymakers as the season was just starting. At a busy period the tapas restaurant would probably have to had to stick to the rule of first come first served.
As it turned out the accommodation made for the party of nine ~ who it must be remembered had to be catered for anyway ~ ultimately did not work out to their advantage.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 28, 2016, 08:48:50 AM
I don't quite see the point you are trying to make here, Pegasus. Or rather I do, and I am disappointed in a poster of your stature making it.
The resort was hardly bursting at the seams with holidaymakers as the season was just starting. At a busy period the tapas restaurant would probably have to had to stick to the rule of first come first served.
As it turned out the accommodation made for the party of nine ~ who it must be remembered had to be catered for anyway ~ ultimately did not work out to their advantage.
We already know.
The tapas party were doing the 'big i am' and got preferential treatment, over other people.
That does sound behaviour characteristic of that group.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Mr Gray on May 28, 2016, 08:52:53 AM
#not a freudian slip at all...you have used the word repeatedly re the mccanns
So pray tell, in what way am I wrong in the use of the word ARROGANT as regards their behaviour in trying and getting preferential treatment over other holidaymakers ?
The very same holidaymakers (if UK residents, paying those doctors in the tapas parties salaries).
By the way, I do know quite a few Doctors as friends, or though work.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 28, 2016, 12:00:35 PM
During the day the children were not being looked after in an enclosed space in a one to one basis. During the day the children were involved in activities in public areas, mixing with other children and accompanied by more than one carer.
There are several instances in this country in the last few years of child abuse being perpetrated in a nursery.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 12:04:58 PM
The tapas party were doing the 'big i am' and got preferential treatment, over other people.
That does sound behaviour characteristic of that group.
The arrangement would have been vetoed if there had been any question the tapas restaurant would have been unable to accommodate the party of nine. Had that been the case they would have made another arrangement which would have involved a trek with tired children to the Millenium or eating carry out at home.
They made the request ... after checking ... the request was allowed. I fail to see the problem. They were after all entitled to eat.
I must say that for me the objection to the party eating together is a new spewing of bile for those whose pastime is posting pejorative comments about Madeleine's parents. I have not seen it anywhere else ... feel free to correct me if I am wrong on that.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 28, 2016, 12:05:49 PM
Why would anyone watch an apartment over several days? To establish the comings and goings of the inhabitants and decide on the best time to strike What could they find out? See above Did the McCanns and their friends evening holiday activities fall into something of a routine or were they all over the place every night, sometimes dragging the kids out, sometimes not?
No matter how long a perspective criminal watched they would never have been able to be sure if or when the routine would change. The first night the party ate in the Millenium and the McCanns have admitted that on the Thursday night they had considered going out as a family to eat so watching the apartment, if that's what the alleged abductor did, would seem to have been a definite exercise in futility.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: lordpookles on May 28, 2016, 12:16:27 PM
Obviously if they were being observed they would know straight after a check that they would have some time before the next one...
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 12:19:56 PM
The arrangement would have been vetoed if there had been any question the tapas restaurant would have been unable to accommodate the party of nine. Had that been the case they would have made another arrangement which would have involved a trek with tired children to the Millenium or eating carry out at home.
Heaven forbid that they would have the inconvenience of looking after their children.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: stephen25000 on May 28, 2016, 12:34:39 PM
I believe it is known as "casing the joint". A practice which criminals carry out to enable their nefarious activities.
This is true. Usually carried out surreptitiously and not in manner that makes them as inconspicuous as a crocogator in a bath such that 9 years later internet pundits can be saying "ere wot about all these geezers wot was casing the joint look there's spotty man, Nordic looking blokes, the Hungarian twins Rollup and Tailor Fagash, Chugger The Mugger" the list goes on and on. Gimme a break, stop flogging a dead horse it ain't gonna get up and start running.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 12:51:48 PM
There is something disconcerting and disruptive in the manner in which the forum is consistently bogged down in meaningless drivel thread after thread. One wonders if that may be by design or merely by chance.
A block booking for the tapas restaurant nine years ago must have some relevance to Madeleine's case nine years down the line ... with the exception of an even more inventive method to 'get the boot in' to the parents of a missing child ... I am afraid that relevancy escapes me.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 28, 2016, 01:15:38 PM
There is something disconcerting and disruptive in the manner in which the forum is consistently bogged down in meaningless drivel thread after thread. One wonders if that may be by design or merely by chance.
A block booking for the tapas restaurant nine years ago must have some relevance to Madeleine's case nine years down the line ... with the exception of an even more inventive method to 'get the boot in' to the parents of a missing child ... I am afraid that relevancy escapes me.
From my perspective many of my posts are to try to make people think beyond the "call centre list" pinned up in front of them. Don't ever think I don't care about what happened to the child. That would be pretty dumb thing to do I have to say. In my case I don't recall any traducing or opprobrium in my posts. The worst I have said is they gambled and lost but the sad truth is after 48 hours MM was likely dead.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Mr Gray on May 28, 2016, 01:37:49 PM
From my perspective many of my posts are to try to make people think beyond the "call centre list" pinned up in front of them. Don't ever think I don't care about what happened to the child. That would be pretty dumb thing to do I have to say. In my case I don't recall any traducing or opprobrium in my posts. The worst I have said is they gambled and lost but the sad truth is after 48 hours MM was likely dead.
I actually agree with you
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 28, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
From my perspective many of my posts are to try to make people think beyond the "call centre list" pinned up in front of them. Don't ever think I don't care about what happened to the child. That would be pretty dumb thing to do I have to say. In my case I don't recall any traducing or opprobrium in my posts. The worst I have said is they gambled and lost but the sad truth is after 48 hours MM was likely dead.
From your perspective many of your posts are to mock those 'afflicted' with a predisposition to sympathy towards the McCanns.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 28, 2016, 02:45:50 PM
From your perspective many of your posts are to mock those 'afflicted' with a predisposition to sympathy towards the McCanns.
I have never tried to pretend, like some on here, my posts are for a higher moral purpose whilst simultaneously likening other posters to terrorist sympathisers, paedophiles or to insinuate that by saying anything not in adoration of the McCanns one is somehow lacking in social graces and/or intelligence. The latter is manifestly incorrect and any one who promulgates such a theory deserves to be booed and hissed off the stage for putting forward such stupid propositions.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 28, 2016, 05:37:20 PM
I have never tried to pretend, like some on here, my posts are for a higher moral purpose whilst simultaneously likening other posters to terrorist sympathisers, paedophiles or to insinuate that by saying anything not in adoration of the McCanns one is somehow lacking in social graces and/or intelligence. The latter is manifestly incorrect and any one who promulgates such a theory deserves to be booed and hissed off the stage for putting forward such stupid propositions.
Who here has argued that adoration of the McCanns is a prerequisite of anyone with intelligence and social graces? What utter rot!
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 28, 2016, 07:20:20 PM
Allegedly they didn't reckon much to the Millenium evening meals. I wonder how they would have coped if they hadn't thought much of the Tapas meals, either.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 28, 2016, 07:29:28 PM
I believe it is known as "casing the joint". A practice which criminals carry out to enable their nefarious activities.
Perhaps if 'the joint' was a bank or commercial property if could see the point or perhaps observing an apartment for a couple of hours to make sure the apartment was empty but any other 'observing' makes no sense.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 28, 2016, 07:30:23 PM
Perhaps if 'the joint' was a bank or commercial property if could see the point or perhaps observing an apartment for a couple of hours to make sure the apartment was empty but any other 'observing' makes no sense.
Madeleine's disappearance "makes no sense" ... yet she did vanish.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 28, 2016, 07:42:18 PM
I'm sure Madeleine's disappearance made perfect sense to someone - we just don't have that information.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 07:55:06 PM
From my perspective many of my posts are to try to make people think beyond the "call centre list" pinned up in front of them. Don't ever think I don't care about what happened to the child. That would be pretty dumb thing to do I have to say. In my case I don't recall any traducing or opprobrium in my posts. The worst I have said is they gambled and lost but the sad truth is after 48 hours MM was likely dead.
Would that all posters had your high standards (and that is not irony, you are not abusive). There is a fifty fifty chance Madeleine is dead but equally there is a fifty fifty chance Madeleine is alive ... and she is at least worth that amount of consideration.
However in my opinion there has been a gradual general 'dumbing down' of the forum with some pretty puerile posting. Do our guests visit to get information or to watch us imploding? and who would that suit?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 07:56:52 PM
Would that all posters had your high standards (and that is not irony, you are not abusive). There is a fifty fifty chance Madeleine is dead but equally there is a fifty fifty chance Madeleine is alive ... and she is at least worth that amount of consideration.
However in my opinion there has been a gradual general 'dumbing down' of the forum with some pretty puerile posting. Do our guests visit to get information or to watch us imploding? and who would that suit?
I suspect a large number of the guests are from some of the less than desirable sites. But the dumbing down is insoluble. As I have said before if I posted "Euler-Bernoulli Theory" is to do with beams some supporter would post it isn't simply because it cannot be seen to be agreeing with someone considered to be a sceptic. Hey ho says Rowley.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 28, 2016, 08:11:17 PM
Really? Find me a post where anyone claims those that don't adore the McCanns are stupid or graceless to prove your point then
Are we playing semantic word games or principle of comment old stick ?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 11:43:05 PM
Without access to the full story and accurate translations of the files in my opinion your analysis is based on incomplete and inaccurate information. It can only be as reliable as the reliability of your source which in my opinion is fatally flawed.
I think you will find that criticism of a group of people making a block booking at a tapas restaurant whether implied or direct but almost entirely negative will probably not satisfy your curiosity.
It certainly will go nowhere in casting any light on what happened to Madeleine McCann ... which I presume is the event to which you refer ... and not either the booking of nor the authorisation for a group of nine to eat at the tapas restaurant.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 28, 2016, 11:56:05 PM
Without access to the full story and accurate translations of the files in my opinion your analysis is based on incomplete and inaccurate information. It can only be as reliable as the reliability of your source which in my opinion is fatally flawed.
I think you will find that criticism of a group of people making a block booking at a tapas restaurant whether implied or direct but almost entirely negative will probably not satisfy your curiosity.
It certainly will go nowhere in casting any light on what happened to Madeleine McCann ... which I presume is the event to which you refer ... and not either the booking of nor the authorisation for a group of nine to eat at the tapas restaurant.
The tabloid articles that you insist on posting likewise cast no light on what happened to Madeleine and are almost always based on incomplete and inaccurate information but still you persist in posting them.
Can you see the hypocrisy here ?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Brietta on May 29, 2016, 12:38:20 AM
The tabloid articles that you insist on posting likewise cast no light on what happened to Madeleine and are almost always based on incomplete and inaccurate information but still you persist in posting them.
Can you see the hypocrisy here ?
Your post would probably have had more relevance had you gone to the bother of locating even one post to illustrate your accusation of hypocrisy ... but not to worry.
Many tabloid articles, particularly the earlier ones, were indeed based entirely on pejorative leaks emanating from the investigation ... and as a result were certainly entirely based on incomplete, inaccurate and downright fabricated information.
The wonder is that even today there are those who base an entire interpretation of Madeleine's case solely on the inaccuracies so promulgated and the matching misconceptions publicised in Mr Amaral's book.
Where the booking of the tapas table figures ... why it figures ... is all a bit of a mystery to me and probably would be to any disinterested observer.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 29, 2016, 07:04:37 AM
Without access to the full story and accurate translations of the files in my opinion your analysis is based on incomplete and inaccurate information. It can only be as reliable as the reliability of your source which in my opinion is fatally flawed.
I think you will find that criticism of a group of people making a block booking at a tapas restaurant whether implied or direct but almost entirely negative will probably not satisfy your curiosity.
It certainly will go nowhere in casting any light on what happened to Madeleine McCann ... which I presume is the event to which you refer ... and not either the booking of nor the authorisation for a group of nine to eat at the tapas restaurant.
I started a thread to look at the Tapas booking because the whole group said or implied that Rachael booked it and the receptionist said it was booked on Sunday for the whole week by a tall thin man accompanied by Madeleine McCann. If the receptionist told the truth there was no need for Rachael's input whatsoever.
The thread was approved and some interesting facts have emerged. The thread is clearly not to your taste, but this forum is not yours and your opinion of what should or should not be discussed is irrelevant.
I get the impression that you have relied on various websites of your choice and some questionable newspaper stories to form your opinions. I prefer the official files, which you seem to have dismissed wholesale as inaccurate. I find that quite amusing from one who relies so heavily on articles in the gutter press for 'facts'.
If you disagree with what I have written you need to come up with more than 'in my opinion' to refute it. I can recommend the group's statements, where alternative facts can often be found, sometimes even in the same statement. They are rather more difficult to tackle than a trashy newspaper article I must admit, but much more enlightening.
Perhaps you could start with the answer to just one question. Why did the group say Rachael made the restaurant bookings instead of naming the 'tall thin man'?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Benice on May 29, 2016, 07:53:50 AM
I started a thread to look at the Tapas booking because the whole group said or implied that Rachael booked it and the receptionist said it was booked on Sunday for the whole week by a tall thin man accompanied by Madeleine McCann. If the receptionist told the truth there was no need for Rachael's input whatsoever.
The thread was approved and some interesting facts have emerged. The thread is clearly not to your taste, but this forum is not yours and your opinion of what should or should not be discussed is irrelevant.
I get the impression that you have relied on various websites of your choice and some questionable newspaper stories to form your opinions. I prefer the official files, which you seem to have dismissed wholesale as inaccurate. I find that quite amusing from one who relies so heavily on articles in the gutter press for 'facts'.
If you disagree with what I have written you need to come up with more than 'in my opinion' to refute it. I can recommend the group's statements, where alternative facts can often be found, sometimes even in the same statement. They are rather more difficult to tackle than a trashy newspaper article I must admit, but much more enlightening.
Perhaps you could start with the answer to just one question. Why did the group say Rachael made the restaurant bookings instead of naming the 'tall thin man'?
Could it possibly be that they thought she had? Or do you think they all sat down and said 'Look it's very important that we say Rachael made the booking - even though we know that's not true - so let's agree to lie about it.'' Why?? What possible difference to the case does it make who made the booking? Why is booking a table even remotely sinister? I don't get it.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 29, 2016, 09:13:19 AM
Could it possibly be that they thought she had? Or do you think they all sat down and said 'Look it's very important that we say Rachael made the booking - even though we know that's not true - so let's agree to lie about it.'' Why?? What possible difference to the case does it make who made the booking? Why is booking a table even remotely sinister? I don't get it.
What a lot of questions! I can't imagine why you think I have the answers. I could make some guesses but I try to keep my speculations to myself. I have found some slightly strange information and posted it. What people make of it is up to them.
Dianne Webster, when asked, seemed to know who booked the restaurant...then she wasn't so sure. ;
Asked who has done the booking of the restaurant, says that it has been done by RACHEL.......The question asked, regarding the fact that, possibly, on the first day it was RUSSELL who had made the reservation at the restaurant, she admits that as possible, although she cannot be sure which of the two (RACHEL or RUSSELL) would have done it. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Benice on May 29, 2016, 09:47:30 AM
What a lot of questions! I can't imagine why you think I have the answers. I could make some guesses but I try to keep my speculations to myself. I have found some slightly strange information and posted it. What people make of it is up to them.
Dianne Webster, when asked, seemed to know who booked the restaurant...then she wasn't so sure. ;
Asked who has done the booking of the restaurant, says that it has been done by RACHEL.......The question asked, regarding the fact that, possibly, on the first day it was RUSSELL who had made the reservation at the restaurant, she admits that as possible, although she cannot be sure which of the two (RACHEL or RUSSELL) would have done it. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
Unless you can come up with a credible reason why the group would decide it was vital to lie about who made the booking then there is no reason to believe there was some 'hidden agenda' associated with it. Therefore - I think it is reasonable to believe that they all gave their own genuine recollections of who it was - at the time they were being asked about it. Whether they remembered correctly or not - we don't know - but as it doesn't affect anything IMO - does it matter anyway? I think not.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 29, 2016, 11:43:35 AM
Unless you can come up with a credible reason why the group would decide it was vital to lie about who made the booking then there is no reason to believe there was some 'hidden agenda' associated with it. Therefore - I think it is reasonable to believe that they all gave their own genuine recollections of who it was - at the time they were being asked about it. Whether they remembered correctly or not - we don't know - but as it doesn't affect anything IMO - does it matter anyway? I think not.
Okay. Let's assume the receptionist didn't mistake a small dark woman fr a tall thin man. So Russell (?) the tall thin man heads to the Tapas reception Sunday morning with the intention of booking dinner there for the rest of the week. He achieves his objective by insisting on the booking because they're leaving their kids home alone each evening.
It's against the rules to book for the week, the restaurant functions on a daily first-come first-served basis because there are limited places available. The receptionist tells the client so, but still he insists so she 'manages' to make the booking.
I have no idea of the level of responsibility a receptionist enjoyed. Was she able to take the decision to break the rules by tying up virtually half of the MW restaurant places for the week? Would her employers have accepted that leaving children home alone was a good reason for breaking the rules? Did she get into trouble later if she didn't let anyone know about the information she was given? She admits to being puzzled at their actions and refers to the other options available which clients normally opt for. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUISA_COUTINHO.htm
Kate McCann has no problem at all with Russell/Jane telling the receptionist why they wanted the block booking. She's 'horrified', however, to find that the receptionist wrote the information down where people could see it (allegedly, I haven't seen evidence of it myself). Perhaps she should have been annoyed with the one who gave the information out too?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ferryman on May 29, 2016, 12:42:28 PM
15 pages to say that a group of friends booked a holiday?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 29, 2016, 12:54:33 PM
You know how these things can drag on ?{)(**
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 29, 2016, 02:07:27 PM
I started a thread to look at the Tapas booking because the whole group said or implied that Rachael booked it and the receptionist said it was booked on Sunday for the whole week by a tall thin man accompanied by Madeleine McCann. If the receptionist told the truth there was no need for Rachael's input whatsoever.
The thread was approved and some interesting facts have emerged. The thread is clearly not to your taste, but this forum is not yours and your opinion of what should or should not be discussed is irrelevant.
I get the impression that you have relied on various websites of your choice and some questionable newspaper stories to form your opinions. I prefer the official files, which you seem to have dismissed wholesale as inaccurate. I find that quite amusing from one who relies so heavily on articles in the gutter press for 'facts'.
If you disagree with what I have written you need to come up with more than 'in my opinion' to refute it. I can recommend the group's statements, where alternative facts can often be found, sometimes even in the same statement. They are rather more difficult to tackle than a trashy newspaper article I must admit, but much more enlightening.
Perhaps you could start with the answer to just one question. Why did the group say Rachael made the restaurant bookings instead of naming the 'tall thin man'?
Or you could ask why did the receptionist say a "tall thin man" made the booking and not Rachel, but note this question did not seem to occur to you.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: jassi on May 29, 2016, 02:17:27 PM
Perhaps the receptionist had never seen Rachel, didn't even know she existed, whereas she had dealt with a tall thin man, which is why she mentioned him.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 29, 2016, 02:26:23 PM
Perhaps the receptionist had never seen Rachel, didn't even know she existed, whereas she had dealt with a tall thin man, which is why she mentioned him.
One thing is for sure we will never know, and the significance of this issue is minor to say the very least.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 29, 2016, 04:52:55 PM
Okay. Let's assume the receptionist didn't mistake a small dark woman fr a tall thin man. So Russell (?) the tall thin man heads to the Tapas reception Sunday morning with the intention of booking dinner there for the rest of the week. He achieves his objective by insisting on the booking because they're leaving their kids home alone each evening.
It's against the rules to book for the week, the restaurant functions on a daily first-come first-served basis because there are limited places available. The receptionist tells the client so, but still he insists so she 'manages' to make the booking.
I have no idea of the level of responsibility a receptionist enjoyed. Was she able to take the decision to break the rules by tying up virtually half of the MW restaurant places for the week? Would her employers have accepted that leaving children home alone was a good reason for breaking the rules? Did she get into trouble later if she didn't let anyone know about the information she was given? She admits to being puzzled at their actions and refers to the other options available which clients normally opt for. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUISA_COUTINHO.htm
Kate McCann has no problem at all with Russell/Jane telling the receptionist why they wanted the block booking. She's 'horrified', however, to find that the receptionist wrote the information down where people could see it (allegedly, I haven't seen evidence of it myself). Perhaps she should have been annoyed with the one who gave the information out too?
I haven't read the thread in detail, my apologies if this has already been covered.
Coutinho's statement is that on 3 May 2007 she worked 09:00 to 17:00.
Yet she also states that on an unspecified occasion, she saw 2 members of the group going to check on children. If that is correct, she must been there after 20.30 on at least one evening.
Then we have the issue of how the Tapas reception was staffed. The Tapas restaurant was closed on a Saturday, was it not? That implies cover for 6 days, 8 hours per day, by one person. Much worse if duties did extend to 20.30 and beyond. I'm wondering if someone else covered at times.
I thought, from memory, the rogs described a situation in which the Tapas was tried on the Sunday, then a block booking was made for the remainder of the week. Does anyone know? I do not intend plodding through the statements to dig this out.
If there were two instances of booking, rather than just the one, is it the source of the apparent differences?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 29, 2016, 06:41:03 PM
I haven't read the thread in detail, my apologies if this has already been covered.
Coutinho's statement is that on 3 May 2007 she worked 09:00 to 17:00.
Yet she also states that on an unspecified occasion, she saw 2 members of the group going to check on children. If that is correct, she must been there after 20.30 on at least one evening.
Then we have the issue of how the Tapas reception was staffed. The Tapas restaurant was closed on a Saturday, was it not? That implies cover for 6 days, 8 hours per day, by one person. Much worse if duties did extend to 20.30 and beyond. I'm wondering if someone else covered at times.
I thought, from memory, the rogs described a situation in which the Tapas was tried on the Sunday, then a block booking was made for the remainder of the week. Does anyone know? I do not intend plodding through the statements to dig this out.
If there were two instances of booking, rather than just the one, is it the source of the apparent differences?
There was a trainee who worked Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at that reception, 9am-7pm. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ELISA.htm
Luisa seemed sure who booked and what was booked;
She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30.
When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company.
The man justified his request by saying that the group had many small children whom they would leave alone when they went to dine. She said that at intervals some two parents would go to the apartments to see if everything was OK. [should this say 'he' - sometimes male and female get mixed up. Gerry was referred to as 'she' in one of his statement translations. Also Russell mentioned elsewhere that the plan was that two people would carry out each check]
The deponent made some comments about the request, saying that the Tapas received many requests and that MW only had a quota of 20 per day, but upon the insistence of the guest she managed to make the bookings requested. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUISA_COUTINHO.htm
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 29, 2016, 06:47:53 PM
15 pages to say that a group of friends booked a holiday?
The thread was authorised. They sometimes get overlong because people post comments which either have nothing to do with the subject or add nothing to the debate. Do you have any thoughts as to why the receptionist said a man booked dinner for the week on Sunday and none of the group, including the man in question, agreed with her?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 29, 2016, 06:53:13 PM
Perhaps the receptionist had never seen Rachel, didn't even know she existed, whereas she had dealt with a tall thin man, which is why she mentioned him.
I tend to lean towards the receptionist's statement because she mentions a child being with the man. She thought the child was Madeleine, but Russell's daughter was very similar looking.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 29, 2016, 06:57:33 PM
Perhaps the receptionist was being economical with the truth? Perhaps she had something to hide?
NB: as it's OK to speculate about the McCanns and their friends honesty in the above way, then why not everyone? Let's be even-handed!
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 29, 2016, 08:15:26 PM
Everyone who was in PdL that week is a potential suspect remember...
Yes, some more than others. To date, none have been implicated.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 01:00:20 PM
Perhaps it might be useful at this stage to summarise the key findings of this thread so far, and what they might help to tell us re: the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2016, 02:07:17 PM
Perhaps it might be useful at this stage to summarise the key findings of this thread so far, and what they might help to tell us re: the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Useful to whom? The findings are documented, with supporting cites, for those interested enough to make the effort and read the thread.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 02:17:21 PM
Well, if you care to read the thread and gather it all into one easy to understand post I wouldn't dream of dissuading you.
Well to me it boils down to this: she said this, he said that, she said something else. We are unlikely ever to know who was right. The matter of who actually made the booking at the beginning of the week of the holiday has no discernible importance in addressing the question of what happened to Madeleine McCann. There really is no next stage for this discussion to move onto without taking it off-topic. IMO.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2016, 04:02:41 PM
Well to me it boils down to this: she said this, he said that, she said something else. We are unlikely ever to know who was right. The matter of who actually made the booking at the beginning of the week of the holiday has no discernible importance in addressing the question of what happened to Madeleine McCann. There really is no next stage for this discussion to move onto without taking it off-topic. IMO.
Do you mind if I ask some questions? When did the group decide to leave their children home alone each evening while they dined?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 05:12:47 PM
Do you mind if I ask some questions? When did the group decide to leave their children home alone each evening while they dined?
If you're asking me I have no idea, however haven't you already uncovered some vitally important info which suggests it was before they actually went on holiday? Which would therefore seem to suggest....what exactly, with relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 30, 2016, 05:41:46 PM
If you're asking me I have no idea, however haven't you already uncovered some vitally important info which suggests it was before they actually went on holiday? Which would therefore seem to suggest....what exactly, with relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?
The establishment of what happened when in the run-up to Madeleine's disappearance happens to be of interest to me.
The SY idea that the 'time line' starts at 8.30pm on 3 May 2007 strikes me as naïve.
Therefore, getting a grip on what went before strikes me as being important, whether it happens to progress the case or not.
Kate seemed to think so too, given her reference to the block-booking note available to all in the Tapas reception. A note that I, like G-Unit, cannot find.
Anyone uninterested in the thread has the option of not reading it, leaving the rest of us to get on with it.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 05:45:24 PM
The establishment of what happened when in the run-up to Madeleine's disappearance happens to be of interest to me.
The SY idea that the 'time line' starts at 8.30pm on 3 May 2007 strikes me as naïve.
Therefore, getting a grip on what went before strikes me as being important, whether it happens to progress the case or not.
Kate seemed to think so too, given her reference to the block-booking note available to all in the Tapas reception. A note that I, like G-Unit, cannot find.
Anyone uninterested in the thread has the option of not reading it, leaving the rest of us to get on with it.
Why is it of importance if it has no actual bearing on the disappearance? I am entitled to ask this question am I not, or are you politely telling me to do one?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 30, 2016, 06:00:19 PM
Why is it of importance if it has no actual bearing on the disappearance? I am entitled to ask this question am I not, or are you politely telling me to do one?
You are entitled to ask. I have no problem with that.
Quite why establishing the mechanics of the booking is unimportant is beyond me.
It establishes or reinforces who knew that a clutch of children were being left in block 5 while the Tapas 9 dined out, and when that knowledge became available.
If this happens to be a pre-planned abduction, then the timing of the booking and the information that went with it is one potential trigger.
Things may or may not have started before this time, but the Tapas booking is critical. It makes abduction just so much easier.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Mr Gray on May 30, 2016, 06:01:01 PM
Not to the disappearance per se but certainly to the subject of neglect. It would seem no matter what the couples had found in PDL to be like it had already been decided before the left England that the children would be left in the apartments alone while the parents dined nearby.
rubbish The first night they dined in Chaplins with the children
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 06:22:16 PM
Not to the disappearance per se but certainly to the subject of neglect. It would seem no matter what the couples had found in PDL to be like it had already been decided before the left England that the children would be left in the apartments alone while the parents dined nearby.
So it's your view that this supposed plan was set in stone in England prior to the holiday and that nothing, not even discovering that the resort was dangerous and non-child friendly would have dissuaded them?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
You are entitled to ask. I have no problem with that.
Quite why establishing the mechanics of the booking is unimportant is beyond me.
It establishes or reinforces who knew that a clutch of children were being left in block 5 while the Tapas 9 dined out, and when that knowledge became available.
If this happens to be a pre-planned abduction, then the timing of the booking and the information that went with it is one potential trigger.
Things may or may not have started before this time, but the Tapas booking is critical. It makes abduction just so much easier.
The big question being posed by this thread seems to have been more "who made the booking", rather than when (though a recent attempt to move the discussion from who to when has been made by the OP). On that point I fail to see any relevance whatsoever, can you?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 30, 2016, 06:37:53 PM
The big question being posed by this thread seems to have been more "who made the booking", rather than when (though a recent attempt to move the discussion from who to when has been made by the OP). On that point I fail to see any relevance whatsoever, can you?
I do.
There appears to be confusion over who made it, who logged it, and when it was made.
If it was block-booked on Sunday morning, the clock runs from then. If it was not block-booked until Monday morning, the clock starts at that time.
The receptionist appears to give a statement that is self-contradictory, such as working hours that would not allow her to observe the T9 behaviour, but simultaneously claiming 2 of the parents were checking.
Whether this Schrodinger's cat dilemma can be resolved is another issue.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2016, 06:53:36 PM
You are entitled to ask. I have no problem with that.
Quite why establishing the mechanics of the booking is unimportant is beyond me.
It establishes or reinforces who knew that a clutch of children were being left in block 5 while the Tapas 9 dined out, and when that knowledge became available.
If this happens to be a pre-planned abduction, then the timing of the booking and the information that went with it is one potential trigger.
Things may or may not have started before this time, but the Tapas booking is critical. It makes abduction just so much easier.
Apparently I am not entitled to ask despite what you have written above and have received a warning for supposedly repeatedly trying to shut down discussion. What absurd nonsense. Clearly my input is not welcome here. Perhaps I should stick to posting pictures of my pets or favourite pop videos.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 30, 2016, 10:30:07 PM
On Saturday evening they ate at the Millenium and then went back to the apartments and went to bed. Sunday evening they left the children and went to the Tapas. At that moment they hadn't been out and about in Luz at night so had no idea if it was quiet and safe after dark or not. According to Russell he entered 5A on Sunday night to check the McCann children. The patio door wasn't locked.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: faithlilly on May 30, 2016, 10:55:00 PM
On Saturday evening they ate at the Millenium and then went back to the apartments and went to bed. Sunday evening they left the children and went to the Tapas. At that moment they hadn't been out and about in Luz at night so had no idea if it was quiet and safe after dark or not. According to Russell he entered 5A on Sunday night to check the McCann children. The patio door wasn't locked.
Precisely. It absolutely makes my stomach churn imagining those children trustingly falling asleep, safe in the knowledge that their parents would be there if they woke, only for those same parents to sneak out like thieves in the night unconcerned how distressed their children would be on waking in dark and unfamiliar surrounding and finding they weren't there.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Alfie on May 30, 2016, 11:05:55 PM
Precisely. It absolutely makes my stomach churn imagining those children trustingly falling asleep, safe in the knowledge that their parents would be there if they woke, only for those same parents to sneak out like thieves in the night unconcerned how distressed their children would be on waking in dark and unfamiliar surrounding and finding they weren't there.
Poor you, try not to take these things to heart so, you'll make yourself ill.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on May 31, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
Do burglers molesters paedos and murderers wear labels? Do high balconies and steep concrete steps have signs on them for 2 and 3 yr olds to read "pls dont come near here"? Do...ad infnitum
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on May 31, 2016, 12:31:16 AM
Precisely. It absolutely makes my stomach churn imagining those children trustingly falling asleep, safe in the knowledge that their parents would be there if they woke, only for those same parents to sneak out like thieves in the night unconcerned how distressed their children would be on waking in dark and unfamiliar surrounding and finding they weren't there.
Excellent post Faithliliy. Thanks heavens someone is capable of thinking what it was like from the childrens' perspective, waking up and discovering parents have sneaked out and left them alone.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: G-Unit on May 31, 2016, 10:36:03 AM
Now, the tapas bookings. Were they made on Sunday by Russell or on Sunday and Monday or every day by Rachael. Did the receptionist write a note or did she not. How did Dianne confuse Russell and Rachael? Why did she say it was Rachael then change her mind when challenged? If she wasn't sure why offer an answer in the first place?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on June 02, 2016, 02:53:36 AM
If that block booking hadn't been made and the T9 had eaten there on Sunday then let everyone else have a fair turn.... 9 other tourists could have eaten at Tapas on Mon night. 9 more on Tue night, 9 more on Wed night, 9 more on Thu night. That adds up to about 36 guests who missed out on a fair turn at eating at Tapas.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: misty on June 03, 2016, 12:20:31 AM
Yes now you are catching on...missing is more accurate than 'abduction' as there is no evidence of 'abduction'
The plain fact that many people cannot understand is why they couldn't take the children with them for a meal or why not dine at tea time 5/6 o'clock and let the children fall asleep in their buggies etc. Selfish/uncaring parents comes to mind.
I believe that neither the Tapas Bar nor the Millenium restaurant offered general dining as early as 5/6pm. If you'd paid for half board & children's high tea in the crèche costs, would you want to pay again to dine early outside the resort? The parents had 2 options - the night crèche (get your children to sleep before you can leave them) or 4 nannies in the various apartments. I wonder if MW could have coped with 19 children in the night crèche during that particular week?
Title: Re: The Tapas Booking
Post by: mercury on June 03, 2016, 12:27:16 AM
I believe that neither the Tapas Bar nor the Millenium restaurant offered general dining as early as 5/6pm. If you'd paid for half board & children's high tea in the crèche costs, would you want to pay again to dine early outside the resort? The parents had 2 options - the night crèche (get your children to sleep before you can leave them) or 4 nannies in the various apartments. I wonder if MW could have coped with 19 children in the night crèche during that particular week?
4 options actually if you want to be correct, the two missing being Eat in or take the kids with them, all four being a better option safety wise, not "putting the boot in" And if the kids were sleepy/tired theyd fall asleep in buggies A 5th option could be taking it in turns to stay home combined with the night creche or nanny option To those who say who would trust a female 20 something nanny, well is it logical to mistrust a nanny but trust kids that young ut of sight and hesring wouldbe ok?
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: pegasus on June 03, 2016, 12:31:34 AM
You missed out a very good and completely safe option Misty. Takeaway from Tapas. The group had seen other guests collecting takeaway meals from Tapas. They knew Tapas takeaway was available. Exactly the same choice of great food, and it included the free wine too !
Title: Re: The Tapas Booking
Post by: misty on June 03, 2016, 12:39:39 AM
4 options actually if you want to be correct, the two missing being Eat in or take the kids with them, all four being a better option safety wise, not "putting the boot in" And if the kids were sleepy/tired theyd fall asleep in buggies A 5th option could be taking it in turns to stay home combined with the night creche or nanny option To those who say who would trust a female 20 something nanny, well is it logical to mistrust a nanny but trust kids that young ut of sight and hesring wouldbe ok?
Again, Merc - they'd paid for half board. Why pay again to eat in (they didn't know about the Tapas takeaway) Take the children with them - the elder ones wouldn't fall asleep in buggies, they'd be running around. Take in turns - how would that work? All the cots & bed in one apartment, move them in then move them back out? As for the nanny option - well, folk are saying the group monopolised the Tapas Bar. They'd have been even more riled if both the Bar & most of the nannies had been monopolised. I don't think the group actually got the holiday package they believed they had paid for, especially in relation to dining arrangements - but I doubt cancellation was a financial option.
Title: Re: The Tapas Booking
Post by: mercury on June 03, 2016, 12:47:08 AM
Again, Merc - they'd paid for half board. Why pay again to eat in (they didn't know about the Tapas takeaway) Take the children with them - the elder ones wouldn't fall asleep in buggies, they'd be running around. Take in turns - how would that work? All the cots & bed in one apartment, move them in then move them back out? As for the nanny option - well, folk are saying the group monopolised the Tapas Bar. They'd have been even more riled if both the Bar & most of the nannies had been monopolised. I don't think the group actually got the holiday package they believed they had paid for, especially in relation to dining arrangements - but I doubt cancellation was a financial option.
Doesnt matter anymore,waste of time discussng it but them leaving their toddlers in an unsecure flat cant be whitewashed
Title: Re: The Tapas Booking
Post by: G-Unit on June 03, 2016, 10:20:54 AM
Again, Merc - they'd paid for half board. Why pay again to eat in (they didn't know about the Tapas takeaway) Take the children with them - the elder ones wouldn't fall asleep in buggies, they'd be running around. Take in turns - how would that work? All the cots & bed in one apartment, move them in then move them back out? As for the nanny option - well, folk are saying the group monopolised the Tapas Bar. They'd have been even more riled if both the Bar & most of the nannies had been monopolised. I don't think the group actually got the holiday package they believed they had paid for, especially in relation to dining arrangements - but I doubt cancellation was a financial option.
They'd paid for breakfast but didn't eat it allegedly. Do you have a cite that they didn't know about the takeaway? What do you mean they didn't get the package they thought they paid for in relation to dining arrangements? Their main 'complaint' was the lack of the listening service which led to much correspondence. They also had correspondence about dining arrangements but I suspect that was related to 'listening'.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 08, 2016, 08:14:17 PM
Precisely. It absolutely makes my stomach churn imagining those children trustingly falling asleep, safe in the knowledge that their parents would be there if they woke, only for those same parents to sneak out like thieves in the night unconcerned how distressed their children would be on waking in dark and unfamiliar surrounding and finding they weren't there.
Heart and stomach churning indeed Faith. And to think Little 3 year old Maddie challenged her mother about that very thing when her brother woke up crying and found the parents not there for comfort.
We never did get that whole story, Kate brushes it off... you know the verbatim conversation missing. I wonder why. What are we not being told about that conversation, how it began and how it ended. It obviously wasn't that important to the parents because they totally blanked her and went out the next night. The act of loving parents who 'felt it was safe' to leave children who could wake up and .....well....
That episode really does bring home the callous nature of those Tapas group towards their babies and children.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 08, 2016, 08:19:33 PM
Poor you, try not to take these things to heart so, you'll make yourself ill.
Protect the parents honour and reputation as you believe them deserving of it, but to show contempt for those little babies and children is gut wrenching to be honest.
Perhaps you could take your own advice when adults challenge parents behaviour regarding their childrens welfare being put at risk.
Beating Kate with sticks well... Poor you, try not to take these things to heart so, you'll make yourself ill.
Title: Re: The Tapas Bookings
Post by: mercury on June 09, 2016, 12:49:44 AM
Protect the parents honour and reputation as you believe them deserving of it, but to show contempt for those little babies and children is gut wrenching to be honest.
Perhaps you could take your own advice when adults challenge parents behaviour regarding their childrens welfare being put at risk.
Beating Kate with sticks well... Poor you, try not to take these things to heart so, you'll make yourself ill.
Miss Kate and her hubby were the perpetrators of all this crap ie not the victims , their child was, well said
Kate bleated on crimewatch...we never did anythng wrong!
Yes you left your three babies alone out of site out of hearing and pretended it was ok just so you could have adult time, well, guess what, you would have had better adult time with a taps meal in your balcony with your kids within 20 m and them beng safe and you feeling better and relaxing proper instead of playing musical chairs, dumbos all of them