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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on May 24, 2016, 11:53:11 PM
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If the McCann's appeal to the Supreme Court fails it is more than likely that they will face a huge legal bill for costs. As I'm sure no supporter would wish to see the search for Madeleine grind to a halt through lack of money in the fund would they consider setting up an account on a crowdfunding site, as the sceptics did for Amaral, in order to help the McCanns pay for their litigation instead of it coming from the Leaving No Stone Unturned Fund ?
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If the McCann's appeal to the Supreme Court fails it is more than likely that they will face a huge legal bill for costs. As I'm sure no supporter would wish to see the search for Madeleine grind to a halt through lack of money in the fund would they consider setting up an account on a crowdfunding site, as the sceptics did for Amaral, in order to help the McCanns pay for their litigation instead of it coming from the Leaving No Stone Unturned Fund ?
I'm sure some kind benefactor will step in should they require resources as several did previously.
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benefactor? ! Doubt it lol its not may 2007 anymore
What bnefactor would want to tarnish their name?
Anyway faith havent they cornered a part of their fund?
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I'm sure some kind benefactor will step in should they require resources as several did previously.
As far as I am aware all their libel litigation has been paid for either through conditional fee arrangements or from the fund. Of course if you have evidence that I'm mistaken I'll be happy to concede the point.
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benefactor? ! Doubt it lol its not may 2007 anymore
What bnefactor would want to tarnish their name?
Anyway faith havent they cornered a part of their fund?
For the search yes.
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For the search yes.
OH that dud thng yes of course theyhavemeh
Nite
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If the McCann's appeal to the Supreme Court fails it is more than likely that they will face a huge legal bill for costs. As I'm sure no supporter would wish to see the search for Madeleine grind to a halt through lack of money in the fund would they consider setting up an account on a crowdfunding site, as the sceptics did for Amaral, in order to help the McCanns pay for their litigation instead of it coming from the Leaving No Stone Unturned Fund ?
Why don't you get the ball rolling and set one up yourself, I'm sure you'd hate to think that the McCanns were denied justice simply because of a lack of funds. I'll make a donation once you've set it up. Great idea btw.
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Why don't you get the ball rolling and set one up yourself, I'm sure you'd hate to think that the McCanns were denied justice simply because of a lack of funds. I'll make a donation once you've set it up. Great idea btw.
Why don't the mccanns pay for it themselves.
After all , they haven't done it themselves, merely relying on others to do it for them.
They were quite happy for Amaral to have his assets seized, so he had to rely on the goodwill of others.
Meanwhile they have wasted millions themselves, which they never contributed to themselves.
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Why don't you get the ball rolling and set one up yourself, I'm sure you'd hate to think that the McCanns were denied justice simply because of a lack of funds. I'll make a donation once you've set it up. Great idea btw.
It is a good idea isn't it Alfie. Strange no supporter has thought of it before. As to setting up an account myself of course I would if only to ensure that the fund wasn't drained but unfortunately being a committed sceptic I'm not sure I'd be the right person to front such a venture. You, on the other hand, or perhaps Brietta, misty, Carana or Benice would be a much better choice. Surely any one of you would jump at the chance to make a real difference to the search for Madeleine ?
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As far as I am aware all their libel litigation has been paid for either through conditional fee arrangements or from the fund. Of course if you have evidence that I'm mistaken I'll be happy to concede the point.
Conditional fee arrangements aren't allowed in Portugal. So their lawyers will have to be paid and, if they lose, they will have to pay all the court fees plus 50% of them to the three defendants as a contribution to their lawyer costs, in addition to other expenses. The court fees are calculated according to the size of the claim, and seem to be around 12% of it for a straightforward case. A complex case may cost more.
http://www.chambersandpartners.com/guide/practice-guides/location/241/6617/1422-200
I think there's a difference between crowd funding to help a defendant with frozen assets and helping those who have chosen to attack.
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benefactor? ! Doubt it lol its not may 2007 anymore
What bnefactor would want to tarnish their name?
Anyway faith havent they cornered a part of their fund?
What is name-tarnishing about supporting truth and justice for an innocent, put-upon couple hovering between hope and grief for their lost daughter?
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What is name-tarnishing about supporting truth and justice for an innocent, put-upon couple hovering between hope and grief for their lost daughter?
You do not know who is innocent or otherwise in this case ferryman.
As to funding, it is about time they funded their own campaign, and not rely on other people to fund their mistakes.
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Conditional fee arrangements aren't allowed in Portugal. So their lawyers will have to be paid and, if they lose, they will have to pay all the court fees plus 50% of them to the three defendants as a contribution to their lawyer costs, in addition to other expenses. The court fees are calculated according to the size of the claim, and seem to be around 12% of it for a straightforward case. A complex case may cost more.
http://www.chambersandpartners.com/guide/practice-guides/location/241/6617/1422-200
I think there's a difference between crowd funding to help a defendant with frozen assets and helping those who have chosen to attack.
Perhaps it would be easier for the supporters to answer the original question if they knew just how the McCanns, if they lose at the SC, are going to pay the court costs.
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What is name-tarnishing about supporting truth and justice for an innocent, put-upon couple hovering between hope and grief for their lost daughter?
So are you willing to turn that support into something positive ferryman ? Something that will avoid the depletion of the fund if the McCanns lose at the SC ?
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So are you willing to turn that support into something positive ferryman ? Something that will avoid the depletion of the fund if the McCanns lose at the SC ?
Willing, yes.
And if I do, I shall use a reputable crowd-funding platform such as justgiving
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Willing, yes.
And if I do, I shall use a reputable crowd-funding platform such as justgiving
Are you willing to set it up ?
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Are you willing to set it up ?
I already have a justgiving page (used for other purposes).
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I already have a justgiving page (used for other purposes).
Excellent ! So you know how it works and setting up another account specifically to help the McCanns pay their legal bills, if it comes to that, shouldn't be too much trouble.
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It is a good idea isn't it Alfie. Strange no supporter has thought of it before. As to setting up an account myself of course I would if only to ensure that the fund wasn't drained but unfortunately being a committed sceptic I'm not sure I'd be the right person to front such a venture. You, on the other hand, or perhaps Brietta, misty, Carana or Benice would be a much better choice. Surely any one of you would jump at the chance to make a real difference to the search for Madeleine ?
Why would another fund be necessary when anyone can already donate to the existing fund. I shall happily donate if necessary - as I have no problem at all with how the McCanns would choose to use my donation.
Faith - do you think a separate Justgiving fund would be allowed to operate without the attention of those sceptics who would pay just for the gleeful pleasure of posting their poison? I don't.
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Excellent ! So you know how it works and setting up another account specifically to help the McCanns pay their legal bills, if it comes to that, shouldn't be too much trouble.
Correct.
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Why would another fund be necessary when anyone can already donate to the existing fund. I shall happily donate if necessary - as I have no problem at all with how the McCanns would choose to use my donation.
Faith - do you think a separate Justgiving fund would be allowed to operate without the attention of those sceptics who would pay just for the gleeful pleasure of posting their poison? I don't.
You may not have any problem with how the couple choose to use your donation to the fund Benice but there are many that do and it is those individuals who would be reassured that their donation was going to the actual search rather than the McCann's legal bills if another mechanism was set up to specifically pay for those legal bills.
As to your second paragraph the possibility that the spectics would use a Justgiving page to 'post their poison' didn't stop both Kate and Gerry setting up just such a page to raise money for MP so why should it be a deterrent to the supporters now ?
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Correct.
Marvellous !
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Why would another fund be necessary when anyone can already donate to the existing fund. I shall happily donate if necessary - as I have no problem at all with how the McCanns would choose to use my donation.
Faith - do you think a separate Justgiving fund would be allowed to operate without the attention of those sceptics who would pay just for the gleeful pleasure of posting their poison? I don't.
The problem with the existing fund is whether paying legal fees and costs for failed litigation is in line with it's stated aims. That's a decision for all the directors, not just two of them.
Is there really a need for the hyperbole? It gets quite boring after a while.
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You may not have any problem with how the couple choose to use your donation to the fund Benice but there are many that do and it is those individuals who would be reassured that their donation was going to the actual search rather than the McCann's legal bills if another mechanism was set up to specifically pay for those legal bills.
As to your second paragraph the possibility that the spectics would use a Justgiving page to 'post their poison' didn't stop both Kate and Gerry setting up just such a page to raise money for MP so why should it be a deterrent to the supporters now ?
IMO the people who criticise how donations to the fund are used - are those who have never donated in the first place. Nitpicking of the fund has just become another stick for sceptics to beat the McCanns with IMO.
There is a vast difference between the McCanns raising money for MP and the McCanns raising money for their own legal fees - although IIRC even that didn't stop some sceptics from attempting to use the site to abuse the McCanns. IMO any such site would be bombarded with sceptics - and it would take 24/7 monitoring to deal with them. So why bother - when there is already a perfectly good alternative.
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The problem with the existing fund is whether paying legal fees and costs for failed litigation is in line with it's stated aims. That's a decision for all the directors, not just two of them.
Is there really a need for the hyperbole? It gets quite boring after a while.
The only 'problems' with the fund are those perceived by sceptics IMO . In 9 years no-one in authority has found fault with how the fund has been managed or used. That's good enough for me.
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IMO the people who criticise how donations to the fund are used - are those who have never donated in the first place. Nitpicking of the fund has just become another stick for sceptics to beat the McCanns with IMO.
There is a vast difference between the McCanns raising money for MP and the McCanns raising money for their own legal fees - although IIRC even that didn't stop some sceptics from attempting to use the site to abuse the McCanns. IMO any such site would be bombarded with sceptics - and it would take 24/7 monitoring to deal with them. So why bother - when there is already a perfectly good alternative.
Firstly I was not advocating that the McCanns themselves raise money for their legal fees but rather that the supporters who place such hope in Madeleine being a findable child actually do something to actively help.
Secondly if OG is shelved the McCanns will need every penny they can raise to continue the search for their daughter and no matter what way you look at it by paying the court costs for their ill advised litigation they will seriously damage their ability to fund that search. Are you happy that in the final reckoning it may actually come down to either paying for private investigators or Amaral et al's court costs ?
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Firstly I was not advocating that the McCanns themselves raise money for their legal fees but rather that the supporters who place such hope in Madeleine being a findable child actually do something to actively help.
Secondly if OG is shelved the McCanns will need every penny they can raise to continue the search for their daughter and no matter what way you look at it by paying the court costs for their ill advised litigation they will seriously damage their ability to fund that search. Are you happy that in the final reckoning it may actually come down to either paying for private investigators or Amaral et al's court costs ?
Oh come on Faith - it wouldn't matter who set up a public fund to raise money for the McCanns legal expenses - the result would be the same. But I'm sure you already know that.
As we have only just been informed about the appeal, I would rather wait to see what the outcome is before making predictions about the future.
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What is name-tarnishing about supporting truth and justice for an innocent, put-upon couple hovering between hope and grief for their lost daughter?
Its called risk when the facts are unknown, tut
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Oh come on Faith - it wouldn't matter who set up a public fund to raise money for the McCanns legal expenses - the result would be the same. But I'm sure you already know that.
As we have only just been informed about the appeal, I would rather wait to see what the outcome is before making predictions about the future.
'The result would ge the same ' ? Not sure what you mean.
To be honest I always get the feeling with supporters that while they are quite willing to sit on forums like this and defend every questionable action of the McCanns they actually do precious little to actively help find Madeleine. When was the last time any supporter on here actually did some fundraising for the NSU fund ?
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'The result would ge the same ' ? Not sure what you mean.
To be honest I always get the feeling with supporters that while they are quite willing to sit on forums like this and defend every questionable action of the McCanns they actually do precious little to actively help find Madeleine. When was the last time any supporter on here actually did some fundraising for the NSU fund ?
Quite right.
They seem all mouth and no trousers.
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'The result would ge the same ' ? Not sure what you mean.
See my previous post re 'gleeful pleasure'
To be honest I always get the feeling with supporters that while they are quite willing to sit on forums like this and defend every questionable action of the McCanns they actually do precious little to actively help find Madeleine. When was the last time any supporter on here actually did some fundraising for the NSU fund ?
The idea that supporters should have to individually fund- raise to justify their objections to kangaroo courts, lynch mob mentality and to the venom they see being daily inflicted on innocent people is truly risible. Are you expecting the same from 'sceptics'?
Apols if I am wrong Faith - but it seems to me that all your comments re the McCanns are based on your own very obvious personal feelings of deep animosity towards them above all else. That doesn't apply to me - it was not because I 'like' the McCanns that I joined in the 'fray' - I don't have any fixed opinions on them - because I don't know them. It was because I hate injustice and cruelty - no matter who the victims are. In this case it happens to be the McCanns
If I contribute to their fund in the future it will not be because they are the McCanns - it will be because I see them as people who have been - and still are - the victims of gross injustice and cruelty - and who deserve to be supported.
AIMHO
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The idea that supporters should have to individually fund- raise to justify their objections to kangaroo courts, lynch mob mentality and to the venom they see being daily inflicted on innocent people is truly risible. Are you expecting the same from 'sceptics'?
Apols if I am wrong Faith - but it seems to me that all your comments re the McCanns are based on your own very obvious personal feelings of deep animosity towards them above all else. That doesn't apply to me - it was not because I 'like' the McCanns that I joined in the 'fray' - I don't have any fixed opinions on them - because I don't know them. It was because I hate injustice and cruelty - no matter who the victims are. In this case it happens to be the McCanns
If I contribute to their fund in the future it will not be because they are the McCanns - it will be because I see them as people who have been - and still are - the victims of gross injustice and cruelty - and who deserve to be supported.
AIMHO
Don't make me laugh.
'.... the victims of gross injustice and cruelty...'
How can you be a victim of what they did ?
Please explain that statement logically.
Madeleine was the victim.
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'The result would ge the same ' ? Not sure what you mean.
To be honest I always get the feeling with supporters that while they are quite willing to sit on forums like this and defend every questionable action of the McCanns they actually do precious little to actively help find Madeleine. When was the last time any supporter on here actually did some fundraising for the NSU fund ?
What would you know about it? Any idea how much money I have donated to the Fund over the years? Don't bother guessing, I wouldn't tell you anyway.
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The idea that supporters should have to individually fund- raise to justify their objections to kangaroo courts, lynch mob mentality and to the venom they see being daily inflicted on innocent people is truly risible. Are you expecting the same from 'sceptics'?
Apols if I am wrong Faith - but it seems to me that all your comments re the McCanns are based on your own very obvious personal feelings of deep animosity towards them above all else. That doesn't apply to me - it was not because I 'like' the McCanns that I joined in the 'fray' - I don't have any fixed opinions on them - because I don't know them. It was because I hate injustice and cruelty - no matter who the victims are. In this case it happens to be the McCanns
If I contribute to their fund in the future it will not be because they are the McCanns - it will be because I see them as people who have been - and still are - the victims of gross injustice and cruelty - and who deserve to be supported.
AIMHO
In reply to your opening salvo I think the sceptics have very adequately proved they will actually put their money where their mouths are when they see injustice being perpetrated. And no I don't think supporters should individually fundraise but if they feel so strongly that Madeleine deserves a proper search why not if it will take the financial pressure off of the official fund ?
As you know nothing about me or my motivations your second paragraph actually doesn't deserve a reply.
Your third paragraph is actually the most interesting as you don't even pretend that your contribution to the fund would be to further the search but rather to 'support' the parents in their various litigations. How very revealing.
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In reply to your opening salvo I think the sceptics have very adequately proved they will actually put their money where their mouths are when they see injustice being perpetrated. And no I don't think supporters should individually fundraise but if they feel so strongly that Madeleine deserves a proper search why not if it will take the financial pressure off of the official fund ?
As you know nothing about me or my motivations your second paragraph actually doesn't deserve a reply.
Your third paragraph is actually the most interesting as you don't even pretend that your contribution to the fund would be to further the search but rather to 'support' the parents in their various litigations. How very revealing.
Supporting the parents against injustice and cruelty is the same as supporting their daughter in my book. The parents are fighting for their daughter's right to be searched for as long as there is no evidence that she is dead. People like Amaral are trying to remove that right IMO. That's both cruel and unjust IMO.
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What would you know about it? Any idea how much money I have donated to the Fund over the years? Don't bother guessing, I wouldn't tell you anyway.
Thank the Lord the organisers of Goncalo Amaral's appeal fund had the foresight to circumvent all speculation by concealing all solicited contributions in a bank account which they can keep entirely confidential and outwith the public domain.
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In reply to your opening salvo I think the sceptics have very adequately proved they will actually put their money where their mouths are when they see injustice being perpetrated. And no I don't think supporters should individually fundraise but if they feel so strongly that Madeleine deserves a proper search why not if it will take the financial pressure off of the official fund ?
As you know nothing about me or my motivations your second paragraph actually doesn't deserve a reply.
Your third paragraph is actually the most interesting as you don't even pretend that your contribution to the fund would be to further the search but rather to 'support' the parents in their various litigations. How very revealing.
What do you think has been revealed?
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Supporting the parents against injustice and cruelty is the same as supporting their daughter in my book. The parents are fighting for their daughter's right to be searched for as long as there is no evidence that she is dead. People like Amaral are trying to remove that right IMO. That's both cruel and unjust IMO.
So how is depleting, through litigation, the fund set up to find Madeleine going to help exactly ?
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So how is depleting, through litigation, the fund set up to find Madeleine going to help exactly ?
Faith - unlike yourself IMO the search for Madeleine and the litigation which imo the McCanns had no choice but to bring against Amaral - because he was encouraging the public to believe she was dead - are not separate entities. They are intertwined. So whatever they use the fund for - it's all the same to me.
Must go - my new three piece suite has arrived!!!
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Faith - unlike yourself IMO the search for Madeleine and the litigation which imo the McCanns had no choice but to bring against Amaral - because he was encouraging the public to believe she was dead - are not separate entities. They are intertwined. So whatever they use the fund for - it's all the same to me.
Must go - my new three piece suite has arrived!!!
So if there's a finite pot of money what do you feel is more important, paying for private detectives to search for Madeleine or paying the McCann's court costs ?
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Thank the Lord the organisers of Goncalo Amaral's appeal fund had the foresight to circumvent all speculation by concealing all solicited contributions in a bank account which they can keep entirely confidential and outwith the public domain.
Since when Brietta are all the contributors to the mccanns fund known ?
Do you have a reason for wanting to know all the people who did contribute to Amaral's fund ?
If so, this is treading on 'dossier' territory again, which given the nature of some supporters would not surprise me one iota.
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In my opinion any attempt at crowdfunding the McCann's legal fees would be laughed off the internet.
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In my opinion any attempt at crowdfunding the McCann's legal fees would be laughed off the internet.
I agree.
Yet I wonder if any of the supporters club on here would give their money to the mccanns for legal expenses, when it is very apparent, the mccanns have never done that, and relied on donations to them.
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So seven pages in and we only have ferryman amongst the supporters who would be willing to donate to a separate fund to help the McCanns pay their legal fees and avoid the need for the money to come from the search fund. Very revealing.
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wrong...some of us have not bothered to comment so you have no idea of our intentions
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So seven pages in and we only have ferryman amongst the supporters who would be willing to donate to a separate fund to help the McCanns pay their legal fees and avoid the need for the money to come from the search fund. Very revealing.
What has been revealed, in your opinion?
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In my opinion any attempt at crowdfunding the McCann's legal fees would be laughed off the internet.
My reply to this post was removed. I have no idea why as it was on topic and not libellous. Could you explain why, when the Madeleine Fund has been in existence for 9 years and raised huge amounts of cash both on and offline (despite all the online sneering and attempts to bring it down), an attempt to raise money for the McCanns legal fees would be laughed off the internet? How would that process work then?
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My reply to this post was removed. I have no idea why as it was on topic and not libellous. Could you explain why, when the Madeleine Fund has been in existence for 9 years and raised huge amounts of cash both on and offline (despite all the online sneering and attempts to bring it down), an attempt to raise money for the McCanns legal fees would be laughed off the internet? How would that process work then?
I don't think it would ever come to that, another Kennedy or Branson is sure to appear.
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I don't think it would ever come to that, another Kennedy or Branson is sure to appear.
You mean another donation to the mccanns ?
Hugh Grant maybe ?
After his Hollywood activities in the past, that would not be a good idea.
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I don't think it would ever come to that, another Kennedy or Branson is sure to appear.
If Branson or Kennedy had paid any of their legal fees there would have been no need for conditional fee agreements or for the McCanns to use the fund.
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I don't think it would ever come to that, another Kennedy or Branson is sure to appear.
Do you think so? The only one who still seems to be interested is Stephen Winyard. Even Mr Mitchell seems to have moved on.
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Now that we have confirmation that if the McCanns loose their appeal against the appeal court judgement the costs will all be paid from the fund set up to find their daughter I think it may be interesting to revisit this topic.
As the amount in the fund at the last accounts was around £750, 000 and we are being told by the tabloids that it is now somewhere around the £480,000 it would appear that a large chunk of money has already left the fund and as we know that this is not funding 'the search' at the moment it seems logical to presume that the money has gone towards expenses connected to the court case.
We are now therefore in the situation that if OG is wound down there will be very little, if any, money left in the fund for the McCanns to sustain a private investigation. Outwith concerns of whether the public's donations where spent appropriately and in the spirit of those donations, the McCanns will now have to raise a lot of money if they wish to conduct a new private investigation and with the goodwill the public felt towards them in 2007, when most of the original fund money was raised, somewhat disapated is it now time for supporters to do their bit and find ways to raise the much needed money ?
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Now that we have confirmation that if the McCanns loose their appeal against the appeal court judgement the costs will all be paid from the fund set up to find their daughter I think it may be interesting to revisit this topic.
As the amount in the fund at the last accounts was around £750, 000 and we are being told by the tabloids that it is now somewhere around the £480,000 it would appear that a large chunk of money has already left the fund and as we know that this is not funding 'the search' at the moment it seems logical to presume that the money has gone towards expenses connected to the court case.
We are now therefore in the situation that if OG is wound down there will be very little, if any, money left in the fund for the McCanns to sustain a private investigation. Outwith concerns of whether the public's donations where spent appropriately and in the spirit of those donations, the McCanns will now have to raise a lot of money if they wish to conduct a new private investigation and with the goodwill the public felt towards them in 2007, when most of the original fund money was raised, somewhat disapated is it now time for supporters to do their bit and find ways to raise the much needed money ?
Perhaps we should wait for official announcements from the PJ & SY, yes?
Only last week it was reported SY may be applying for extra funding, so clearly the investigation is not dead yet.
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Perhaps we should wait for official announcements from the PJ & SY, yes?
Only last week it was reported SY may be applying for extra funding, so clearly the investigation is not dead yet.
Did the extra funding claim come from a SY or government representative ?
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Did the extra funding claim come from a SY or government representative ?
"On Wednesday, Scotland Yard said it would talk to the Home Office about funding.
A force spokesman told the Press Association: ‘Whilst there remains outstanding work on this case, the Metropolitan Police Service will remain in dialogue with the Home Office regarding the continuation of funding"
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/24/madeleine-mccann-police-to-ask-for-more-money-for-outstanding-work-6088574/#ixzz4IuNcSJr0
A British police source to the British press. What's not to believe?
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"On Wednesday, Scotland Yard said it would talk to the Home Office about funding.
A force spokesman told the Press Association: ‘Whilst there remains outstanding work on this case, the Metropolitan Police Service will remain in dialogue with the Home Office regarding the continuation of funding"
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/24/madeleine-mccann-police-to-ask-for-more-money-for-outstanding-work-6088574/#ixzz4IuNcSJr0
A British police source to the British press. What's not to believe?
A 'force spokesman' ? Is that it ?
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A 'force spokesman' ? Is that it ?
It's a bit like the "source close to the PJ investigation" you rely on.
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A 'force spokesman' ? Is that it ?
Are you insinuating that the following is a media lie?
A force spokesman told the Press Association: ‘Whilst there remains outstanding work on this case, the Metropolitan Police Service will remain in dialogue with the Home Office regarding the continuation of funding"
If so, to whose advantage and why?
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Are you insinuating that the following is a media lie?
A force spokesman told the Press Association: ‘Whilst there remains outstanding work on this case, the Metropolitan Police Service will remain in dialogue with the Home Office regarding the continuation of funding"
If so, to whose advantage and why?
Probably not a lie just SY looking for extra cash.
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Probably not a lie just SY looking for extra cash.
Well yes, exactly, however an insinuation has been made that this statement cannot be taken seriously as the SY source has not been named, and that therefore this casts doubt on the claim that the Met wish to keep the investigation open.
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Well yes, exactly, however an insinuation has been made that this statement cannot be taken seriously as the SY source has not been named, and that therefore this casts doubt on the claim that the Met wish to keep the investigation open.
Well we know they want to keep the cash flowing...
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Well we know they want to keep the cash flowing...
Who are you talking about?
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If they were as desprate to find their daughter as they claim, they could sell their house-down size or get rented, and cut back on holidays etc...
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Who are you talking about?
SY.
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http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/542025/Cash-crisis-hits-search-Maddie-fund-down-last-46k
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/155456/maddie-lies-cop-to-pay-mccanns-434k/
Do they not require journalists these days to have basic gcses? ie in englsh comprehension for starters, let alone the basics of journalistic research , or is journalism nothing at all to do with reporting facts
The magic 434k transforms itself from a libel payout TO the mccanns into a payment TO Amarals lawyer leaving them with only 46 grand
8)><(
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/542025/Cash-crisis-hits-search-Maddie-fund-down-last-46k
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/155456/maddie-lies-cop-to-pay-mccanns-434k/
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http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/542025/Cash-crisis-hits-search-Maddie-fund-down-last-46k
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/155456/maddie-lies-cop-to-pay-mccanns-434k/
Do they not require journalists these days to have basic gcses? ie in englsh comprehension for starters, let alone the basics of journalistic research , or is journalism nothing at all to do with reporting facts
The magic 434k transforms itself from a libel payout TO the mccanns into a payment TO Amarals lawyer leaving them with only 46 grand
8)><(
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/542025/Cash-crisis-hits-search-Maddie-fund-down-last-46k
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/155456/maddie-lies-cop-to-pay-mccanns-434k/
What happened to the money we were told by Clarence had been put into another account in case OG was wound down?
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What happened to the money we were told by Clarence had been put into another account in case OG was wound down?
yes, about 270k of it has gone somewhere rather fast
dunno faith
What i do know isclarence massages the truth
He is on record for it, live on media
Problem is, not a single one of these stories canbe taken as true or untrue as the press and pr geeks are not answerable to anyone unless it gets serious then theyre in front of judges and select committees
The nearest to the accountable truth is their accounts
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If anyone's daft enough to crowdfund more 'searching' they can. I prefer to spend my money elsewhere.
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If anyone's daft enough to crowdfund more 'searching' they can. I prefer to spend my money elsewhere.
I thought Faithlilly's totally uncynical little idea was that we supporters crowd-funded to support the McCanns' litigation, not more searching...?
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I thought Faithlilly's totally uncynical little idea was that we supporters crowd-funded to support the McCanns' litigation, not more searching...?
Well, people donated to a Fund to be used to search for Madeleine. That money was used to fund litigation, so the terms seem to be interchangeable as far as I can see.
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Well, people donated to a Fund to be used to search for Madeleine. That money was used to fund litigation, so the terms seem to be interchangeable as far as I can see.
of course they do, to you.
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of course they do, to you.
And me.
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And me.
That goes without saying @)(++(*
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That goes without saying @)(++(*
Therefore G-Unit is quite right.
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Stick to the topic please. Crowdfunding. Should be easy enough.
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Surely crowdfunding for whatever reason won't be needed as the Fund will grow immediately now the Sun has made the position clear;
MADDIE CASH CRISIS Kate and Gerry McCann desperate for new donations as search fund is down to last £46k
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1701671/kate-and-gerry-mccann-desperate-for-new-donations-as-search-fund-is-down-to-last-46k/
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Surely crowdfunding for whatever reason won't be needed as the Fund will grow immediately now the Sun has made the position clear;
MADDIE CASH CRISIS Kate and Gerry McCann desperate for new donations as search fund is down to last £46k
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1701671/kate-and-gerry-mccann-desperate-for-new-donations-as-search-fund-is-down-to-last-46k/
Thanks G.... yes very clear. The story is going down the bad portuguese are taking their search fund money off them road, please help. There doesn't seem to be a open 'comments' section, probably a typing error by staff.
It will be interesting to see the funds swell again, and how the money will be spent this time.
The UK public will now be able to read about Amaral and his thesis, and there is nothing the McCanns can do.
On another note; the public will also be aware, some newspaper will print it or say it, that 3 private detective companies costing milllions, one police force involved in initial investigation, then two police forces 'searchig' for clues as to what happened to little Maddie, one known costing over 13 million pounds have come up with NOTHING. So how many more millions do the family want or need to 'continue their search' and what is the prospect of them finding their daughter,how long and how much will it take and will the public support them. I don't think so. In fact I suspect a new story will appear- to explain what may have happened.
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Several 'points' spring to mind on comments in the Sun article.
How much did the Mccanns receive for:
1. The Oprah Winfrey Show.
2. The serialization rights of Kate Mccann's book in the Sun.
3. The Hello Magazine Article.
4. Did any of the monies received go into the fund, and if so, is there any proof this has happened ?
5. If any of the fees received did not go into the fund, it therefore suggests the Mccanns have personally benefited.
I await replies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-510483/Kate-Gerry-McCann-1million-deal-tell-Oprah-Winfrey.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576625/Madeleine-McCann-parents-in-1m-Oprah-bid.html
(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hello.jpg)
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Please note ... the thread topic is Crowdfunding ... please stick to that. Thankyou
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After the SC judgement yesterday and the very real possibility that now the Find Madeleine fund will be drained of all its funds I thought it may be timely to resurrect this theard.
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After the SC judgement yesterday and the very real possibility that now the Find Madeleine fund will be drained of all its funds I thought it may be timely to resurrect this theard.
Don't they already have crowdfunding AKA 'The Fund'?
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Don't they already have crowdfunding AKA 'The Fund'?
Supposedly for the'search'. I don't believe there's any actual funding for unsuccessful litigation.
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Supposedly for the'search'. I don't believe there's any actual funding for unsuccessful litigation.
in that case wouldnt they have to be declaired bankrupt??
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Could use of the Fund to pay legal costs spawn a court case regarding what would be considered appropriate use?
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After the SC judgement yesterday and the very real possibility that now the Find Madeleine fund will be drained of all its funds I thought it may be timely to resurrect this theard.
I wondered how long it would be before you brought this up again @)(++(* I would say that this was a rather overt form of goading McCanns supporters.
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in that case wouldnt they have to be declaired bankrupt??
Good move on their part - then they could come to a Bennett-like agreement of paying back £10 a month @)(++(*
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That would do their reputation, such as it is, a lot of good, wouldn't it?
Remember the it is the Portuguese court that would be pursuing them for the money, not Amaral
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That would do their reputation, such as it is, a lot of good, wouldn't it?
Remember the it is the Portuguese court that would be pursuing them for the money, not Amaral
I should think they're beyond caring about their reputation in Portugal now. I'm sure they are seeking legal advice right now on what options are available to them to minimise the amount they have to pay.
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I should think they're beyond caring about their reputation in Portugal now. I'm sure they are seeking legal advice right now on what options are available to them to minimise the amount they have to pay.
I ahve no doubt they are.
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I should think they're beyond caring about their reputation in Portugal now. I'm sure they are seeking legal advice right now on what options are available to them to minimise the amount they have to pay.
I'm sure their newly acquired ' investments' on behalf of the fund can now be seen in their proper context.
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I should think they're beyond caring about their reputation in Portugal now. I'm sure they are seeking legal advice right now on what options are available to them to minimise the amount they have to pay.
Were I them I would endeavour to pay the court costs in full or come to an agreement about payment as soon as possible. I believe they are liable for Amaral's costs as well which would probably form part of that negotiation.
After that they will legitimately have little left to pay for the affront to Amaral's dignity and recognition of his right to freedom of speech so I am sure they will be able to reach a legal accommodation regarding that. While not having recourse to doing a Bennet ~ the effect could be similar.
The sale of Madeleine's and the twins home is quite an emotive thing to think about ... however that may be the upshot. I wonder how many will find satisfaction in that.
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Were I them I would endeavour to pay the court costs in full or come to an agreement about payment as soon as possible. I believe they are liable for Amaral's costs as well which would probably form part of that negotiation.
After that they will legitimately have little left to pay for the affront to Amaral's dignity and recognition of his right to freedom of speech so I am sure they will be able to reach a legal accommodation regarding that. While not having recourse to doing a Bennet ~ the effect could be similar.
The sale of Madeleine's and the twins home is quite an emotive thing to think about ... however that may be the upshot. I wonder how many will find satisfaction in that.
with all due respect no one asked them to drag this on for 8 years
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Were I them I would endeavour to pay the court costs in full or come to an agreement about payment as soon as possible. I believe they are liable for Amaral's costs as well which would probably form part of that negotiation.
After that they will legitimately have little left to pay for the affront to Amaral's dignity and recognition of his right to freedom of speech so I am sure they will be able to reach a legal accommodation regarding that. While not having recourse to doing a Bennet ~ the effect could be similar.
The sale of Madeleine's and the twins home is quite an emotive thing to think about ... however that may be the upshot. I wonder how many will find satisfaction in that.
I saw little sympathy from supporters when Amaral lost his income, house, marriage. In fact they revelled in his misfortune.
If the McCanns couldn't afford to lose they shouldn't have sued.
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I saw little sympathy from supporters when Amaral lost his income, house, marriage. In fact they revelled in his misfortune.
If the McCanns couldn't afford to lose they shouldn't have sued.
exactly i totally agree
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with all due respect no one asked them to drag this on for 8 years
With all due respect ... no-one asked Amaral to write a book defaming them by accusing them of involvement in the death of their daughter.
Are you saying that had someone made a similar vile accusation about you ... you would not have tried to stop them? Most normal people would, in my opinion.
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With all due respect ... no-one asked Amaral to write a book defaming them by accusing them of involvement in the death of their daughter.
Are you saying that had someone made a similar vile accusation about you ... you would not have tried to stop them? Most normal people would, in my opinion.
Now they face the consequences of that action.
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Now they face the consequences of that action.
exactly they started it knowing they could lose and they lost once and kept going and lost again
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I saw little sympathy from supporters when Amaral lost his income, house, marriage. In fact they revelled in his misfortune.
If the McCanns couldn't afford to lose they shouldn't have sued.
Amaral lost his house because he didn't pay the mortgage.
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I saw little sympathy from supporters when Amaral lost his income, house, marriage. In fact they revelled in his misfortune.
If the McCanns couldn't afford to lose they shouldn't have sued.
Many of Amaral's plagues regarding his finances long predated his disastrous conduct of Madeleine's case.
He had problems with the tax authorities.
He was involved in an expensive divorce from his first wife.
He was involved in expensive litigation which he lost
- with his brother who he defrauded
- with Dr Marcos Aragão Correia who he accused of defamation
So he was doing a pretty good job of digging a financial hole for himself long before the McCanns ever set foot in Portugal.
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Were I them I would endeavour to pay the court costs in full or come to an agreement about payment as soon as possible. I believe they are liable for Amaral's costs as well which would probably form part of that negotiation.
After that they will legitimately have little left to pay for the affront to Amaral's dignity and recognition of his right to freedom of speech so I am sure they will be able to reach a legal accommodation regarding that. While not having recourse to doing a Bennet ~ the effect could be similar.
The sale of Madeleine's and the twins home is quite an emotive thing to think about ... however that may be the upshot. I wonder how many will find satisfaction in that.
I think it would bring immense joy to their many detractors, sadly.
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I think it would bring immense joy to their many detractors, sadly.
I feel deep sympathy for a pair of children who's home may have been sacrificed to their parents arrogance.
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I feel deep sympathy for a pair of children who's home may have been sacrificed to their parents arrogance.
exactly and greed imo
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Unfortunately it's the innocent children who suffer for their parents bad decisions.
It's not spectics fault that the McCanns risked everything in their hunt for revenge. Perhaps they should have thought about their remaining children's security before proceeding on such a perilous venture ?
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Unfortunately it's the innocent children who suffer for their parents bad decisions.
It's not spectics fault that the McCanns risked everything in their hunt for revenge. Perhaps they should have thought about their remaining children's security before proceeding on such a perilous venture ?
totally agree it wasnt the fault of GA that maddie went missing was it??
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I hope the McCanns have remortgaged their house already so there is no equity in it who knows
The McCanns may have no money
So they may be declared bankrupt
If there is little or no equity in the house thy will be able to keep it
Wait a year for discharge then write a million pound book
Amaral would not get a penny
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They are adults and therefore responsible for their actions.
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I hope the McCanns have remortgaged their house already so there is no equity in it who knows
The McCanns may have no money
So they may be declared bankrupt
If there is little or no equity in the house thy will be able to keep it
Wait a year for discharge then write a million pound book
Amaral would not get a penny
You keep reiterating this alternative fact.
Amaral merely gets his own money back which was sequestered.
The McCanns pay the Portuguese court for the legal costs
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They are adults and therefore responsible for their actions.
exactly faithlily GA didnt start this the mcanns did by leaving the kids which lead to maddies fate whatever that is and then instead of taking personal responsibility for their actions they blamed everybody else didnt they?
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They are adults and therefore responsible for their actions.
As are we all. Sometimes we make decisions that we think are the right ones for ourselves and our families that end up having negative consequences which cause nothing but hurt for ourselves and our families. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but most people would be sympathetic of people in such a position, not accuse them of being able to predict the outcome beforehand.
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As are we all. Sometimes we make decisions that we think are the right ones for ourselves and our families that end up having negative consequences which cause nothing but hurt for ourselves and our families. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but most people would be sympathetic of people in such a position, not accuse them of being able to predict the outcome beforehand.
It's strange you and your fellow supporters where four square behind the McCanns in this action. That is until they lost.
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It's strange you and your fellow supporters where four square behind the McCanns in this action. That is until they lost.
is reality starting to set in do you think?? most of us not emotionally involved could tell it was a stupid thing to do
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As are we all. Sometimes we make decisions that we think are the right ones for ourselves and our families that end up having negative consequences which cause nothing but hurt for ourselves and our families. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but most people would be sympathetic of people in such a position, not accuse them of being able to predict the outcome beforehand.
One might have felt a little sympathy if they had accepted the Appeal Court judgement, but the lure of half a million euro within their grasp drove them on.
They lost Tough.
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One might have felt a little sympathy if they had accepted the Appeal Court judgement, but the lure of half a million euro within their grasp drove them on.
They lost Tough.
exactly whats that saying you play with fire you get burnt?? @)(++(*
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is reality starting to set in do you think?? most of us not emotionally involved could tell it was a stupid thing to do
I don't think anyone on the forum is emotionally involved
The idea is quite ridiculous
There's one poster who seems very excited though
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You keep reiterating this alternative fact.
Amaral merely gets his own money back which was sequestered.
The McCanns pay the Portuguese court for the legal costs
Depends very much on where he may be in the queue of those who may have a prior claim of entitlement.
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Depends very much on where he may be in the queue of those who may have a prior claim of entitlement.
He doesn't have a claim It was said that he may be liable for his lawyer's fees, but he has 50K from crowd funding for that.
The McCanns owe the state of Portugal.
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He doesn't have a claim It was said that he may be liable for his lawyer's fees, but he has 50K from crowd funding for that.
The McCanns owe the state of Portugal.
Please read what I said more carefully while bearing in mind that it is highly likely that Amaral may still be paying off his tax debt to the Portuguese state.
It is possible that he is still indebted to the brother he defrauded in a property deal and there may be other creditors along the way.
I'm not entirely sure what is considered as Amaral's legal costs. It may be that he is entitled to do what he wishes with the crowdfunding 50K etc and the rest of the donations that have kept him going over the years.
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Please read what I said more carefully while bearing in mind that it is highly likely that Amaral may still be paying off his tax debt to the Portuguese state.
It is possible that he is still indebted to the brother he defrauded in a property deal and there may be other creditors along the way.
I'm not entirely sure what is considered as Amaral's legal costs. It may be that he is entitled to do what he wishes with the crowdfunding 50K etc and the rest of the donations that have kept him going over the years.
Just get over it. McCanns lost big time. Anything else is irrelevant.
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Just get over it. McCanns lost big time. Anything else is irrelevant.
No need at all to be rude ... but the fact you have been tends to illustrate the recognition that it may be over as far as Portuguese law is concerned but there are still many loose ends to be dealt with.
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Just get over it. McCanns lost big time. Anything else is irrelevant.
exactly 8((()*/
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Just get over it. McCanns lost big time. Anything else is irrelevant.
there is a little girl still missing...that is not irrelevant
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It's strange you and your fellow supporters where four square behind the McCanns in this action. That is until they lost.
I would have done exactly the same as them.
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One might have felt a little sympathy if they had accepted the Appeal Court judgement, but the lure of half a million euro within their grasp drove them on.
They lost Tough.
So as far as you're concerned it was only ever about the money? This is what I mean about doubters who have neither the imagination nor the empathy to put themselves into the position of someone in such an invidfious situation because they refuse to accept the possibility that the McCanns might actually be innocent of Amaral's accusations.
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Were I them I would endeavour to pay the court costs in full or come to an agreement about payment as soon as possible. I believe they are liable for Amaral's costs as well which would probably form part of that negotiation.
After that they will legitimately have little left to pay for the affront to Amaral's dignity and recognition of his right to freedom of speech so I am sure they will be able to reach a legal accommodation regarding that. While not having recourse to doing a Bennet ~ the effect could be similar.
The sale of Madeleine's and the twins home is quite an emotive thing to think about ... however that may be the upshot. I wonder how many will find satisfaction in that.
I would feel the same as when I watch a sparrowhawk take a blue tit off the top of one my apple trees.
These things happen all the time, what is about this couple over all others that I should feel more, taste more and care more?
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So as far as you're concerned it was only ever about the money? This is what I mean about doubters who have neither the imagination nor the empathy to put themselves into the position of someone in such an invidfious situation because they refuse to accept the possibility that the McCanns might actually be innocent of Amaral's accusations.
Of course the appeal was about money.
On the one hand they had 500K and their costs within their grasp, on the other they stood to incur substantial costs.
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Many of Amaral's plagues regarding his finances long predated his disastrous conduct of Madeleine's case.
He had problems with the tax authorities.
He was involved in an expensive divorce from his first wife.
He was involved in expensive litigation which he lost
- with his brother who he defrauded
- with Dr Marcos Aragão Correia who he accused of defamation
So he was doing a pretty good job of digging a financial hole for himself long before the McCanns ever set foot in Portugal.
Isn't this off topic? Crowdfunding the McCanns Litigation
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You keep reiterating this alternative fact.
Amaral merely gets his own money back which was sequestered.
The McCanns pay the Portuguese court for the legal costs
This alternative fact from the man who fought the law and won.......................... &%+((£
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This alternative fact from the man who fought the law and won.......................... &%+((£
I fought the law and won...absolutely
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I would have done exactly the same as them.
And I would have considered how the money in the fund would be better used, to pay for individuals and awareness raising to find my daughter or to protect my own reputation by suing for libel in a country where I had very little knowledge of the law. I guess it shows how different we are Alfie
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AFAIK, the McCanns must pay Gonçalo Amaral's court costs as well as their own but not his lawyer's fees. As, the court costs have already been paid, I doubt that will be a problem. However, they probably face a very hefty bill from Isabel Duarte.
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AFAIK, the McCanns must pay Gonçalo Amaral's court costs as well as their own but not his lawyer's fees. As, the court costs have already been paid, I doubt that will be a problem. However, they probably face a very hefty bill from Isabel Duarte.
Have you a cite for this?
It would seem very swift, given the judgement was only announced a couple of days ago The Portuguese Court must be very fast in rendering their accounts.
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AFAIK, the McCanns must pay Gonçalo Amaral's court costs as well as their own but not his lawyer's fees. As, the court costs have already been paid, I doubt that will be a problem. However, they probably face a very hefty bill from Isabel Duarte.
interesting...thank you Montclair
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And I would have considered how the money in the fund would be better used, to pay for individuals and awareness raising to find my daughter or to protect my own reputation by suing for libel in a country where I had very little knowledge of the law. I guess it shows how different we are Alfie
True, and I'm grateful for that.
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Have you a cite for this?
It would seem very swift, given the judgement was only announced a couple of days ago The Portuguese Court must be very fast in rendering their accounts.
If it is similar to this country some of the fee is payable upfront when the papers are lodged with the court.
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If it is similar to this country some of the fee is payable upfront when the papers are lodged with the court.
What about the court costs for the earlier hearings - would they have been paid up front as well?
Will some need to be reimbursed now that Amaral has won?
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What about the court costs for the earlier hearings - would they have been paid up front as well?
Will some need to be reimbursed now that Amaral has won?
The court will recover all their costs from the McCanns as the McCanns lost all up. Any court costs paid by Sr Amaral up to now will be reinbursed to him. He didn't bring the case and he won so must be held harmless.
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So not really something sorted out in five minutes , figuratively speaking.
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So not really something sorted out in five minutes , figuratively speaking.
I doubt; we are talking about courts here.... 8(0(*
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So not really something sorted out in five minutes , figuratively speaking.
We don't do 5 minutes in Portugal.
That is why a sardine munching session here is typically 2 to 3 hours. 8)-)))
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So the post saying costs had already been paid ( post 129) is probably bollocks. 8)-)))
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Agreement twice in the one week. That must be a bit of a record 8(0(*
No, a record is a black disc with a hole in the middle.
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No, a record is a black disc with a hole in the middle.
Spike Milligan ca 1955
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So the post saying costs had already been paid ( post 129) is probably bollocks. 8)-)))
Just indistinctly worded I think [he said in a charitable tone of voice].
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The court will recover all their costs from the McCanns as the McCanns lost all up. Any court costs paid by Sr Amaral up to now will be reinbursed to him. He didn't bring the case and he won so must be held harmless.
and we have no idea what those costs are
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and we have no idea what those costs are
It doesn't really matter.
The principle has been decided the quantum will be what it is under the rules obtaining.
The plaintiffs lost the case and will pay whatever the quantum is in a manner acceptable to the courts. If there is any default the court pursue it through its officers.
Ever since the judge of the first instance booted out more than 50 % of the claim it was always difficult to present it as a significant victory for the plaintiffs, though many tried. It is impossible now.
Sr Amaral will have his sequestered funds returned by the trustees managing them.
You need to be able to differentiate between what funds are rightfully his and the pound[Euro] in his pocket.
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I remember that phase well. Arguing black was white they were - all to no avail.
And that is what I am laughing at not the McCann's plight................. 8(0(*
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No, a record is a black disc with a hole in the middle.
Oh yeah my grandma told me about them ?{)(**
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Oh yeah my grandma told me about them ?{)(**
LOL, you need to get hip Faithlilly, haven't you heard of the vinyl revival? 8(>((
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So the post saying costs had already been paid ( post 129) is probably bollocks. 8)-)))
AFAIK, the defendants and plaintiffs pay their court costs as they go along, not just at the end of the case. For example, when an appeal is filed, the person appealing must pay the respective court fees at that time.
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AFAIK, the defendants and plaintiffs pay their court costs as they go along, not just at the end of the case. For example, when an appeal is filed, the person appealing must pay the respective court fees at that time.
I believe this to be true.
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I believe this to be true.
Amaral can now claim back all the fees he has paid plus 50% to go towards his lawyer's costs.
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Amaral can now claim back all the fees he has paid plus 50% to go towards his lawyer's costs.
and people who couldn't care less, are now showing an interst in him and his thesis. All thanks to the parents of a missing child. The BBC docu/film about Shannon Mathews- mentioning the parents Kate n Gerry's 'good fortune' at recieving a lot of money was the motivation for Shannons Mother. Heart breaking stuff for both the children.
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I am surprised something like this has not been set up to be honest. I am sure their supporters would not like to see the costs coming out of the 'search' fund. Mind some people may have donated to the fund for this exact reason I guess. When I donated (a lot of years ago) I did expect the money to be put towards following up leads and such rather than legal fees for failed libel cases, mind my humble 20 quid was unlikely to do anything significant anyway.
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I am surprised something like this has not been set up to be honest. I am sure their supporters would not like to see the costs coming out of the 'search' fund. Mind some people may have donated to the fund for this exact reason I guess. When I donated (a lot of years ago) I did expect the money to be put towards following up leads and such rather than legal fees for failed libel cases, mind my humble 20 quid was unlikely to do anything significant anyway.
As the Tesco advert says, 'every little helps' or in this case helped pay for the lawyers. 8(0(*
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As the Tesco advert says, 'every little helps' or in this case helped pay for the lawyers. 8(0(*
This is not going away soon so it is funding keeping Madeleine in the headlines one way or other.
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I am surprised something like this has not been set up to be honest. I am sure their supporters would not like to see the costs coming out of the 'search' fund. Mind some people may have donated to the fund for this exact reason I guess. When I donated (a lot of years ago) I did expect the money to be put towards following up leads and such rather than legal fees for failed libel cases, mind my humble 20 quid was unlikely to do anything significant anyway.
The widow's mite. Blessed are poor etc.