UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: misty on June 14, 2016, 11:02:03 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/sir-clement-freud-exposed-as-a-paedophile-as-police-urged-to-pro/
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/sir-clement-freud-exposed-as-a-paedophile-as-police-urged-to-pro/
Unlike Jimmy Savile, I always rather enjoyed seeing Clement Freud on the telly or listening to him on the radio, but what a depraved creep he's turned out to be. My symapthies are with his victims, his family and also everyone else he managed to dupe with his charms. Was everyone on telly in the 70s a paedo?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/sir-clement-freud-exposed-as-a-paedophile-as-police-urged-to-pro/
- alledged paedophile
- villa in PDL, invited mccanns over, mccanns story full of paedophile connections
- what to say? Nothing at present , surprised grange might treat it as a lead...83 year old new suspect? In missing 3 yr old child case? Most probably not imo but maybe investigate every possible connection
Another telegraph article and a daily mail one
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/how-clement-freud-invited-kate-and-gerry-mccann-for-lunch-after/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641755/Clement-Freud-child-abuser-Former-Liberal-MP-molested-girls-young-10-TV-documentary-reveals-two-victims-tell-pain.html#reader-comments
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It should be remembered that Clement Freud is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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It should be remembered that Clement Freud is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Please remember that the McCanns are innocent every time you post. Unlike anyone associated with Sir Clement Freud or his villa in Luz ... the McCanns have been subject to police investigation to the nth degree and cleared by the Portuguese AG.
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Please remember that the McCanns are innocent every time you post. Unlike anyone associated with Sir Clement Freud or his villa in Luz ... the McCanns have been subject to police investigation to the nth degree and cleared by the Portuguese AG.
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There are ties to the Mccanns clearly, and Clarence Mitchell worked for Matthew Freud (son of Clement Freud,September 2008 – February 2010 (1 year 6 months) ), Freud Communications.
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There are ties to the Mccanns clearly, and Clarence Mitchell worked for Matthew Freud (son of Clement Freud,September 2008 – February 2010 (1 year 6 months) ), Freud Communications.
Fascinating - it would be interesting to know if he surfaced in OG's investigations.
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Fascinating - it would be interesting to know if he surfaced in OG's investigations.
Indeed it would.
The story is being taken up by most of the newspapers.
I wonder how many will mention the connection of Freud's son Matthew to the Mccanns , via Mitchell.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sir-clement-freud-madeleine-mccann-police-investigate-paedophile-mp-link-a7082806.html
The headline says it all - except that it doesn't.
Nowhere in the article does it say that SY will investigate, only that they might - makes for a good headline, though
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sir-clement-freud-madeleine-mccann-police-investigate-paedophile-mp-link-a7082806.html
The headline says it all - except that it doesn't.
Nowhere in the article does it say that SY will investigate, only that they might - makes for a good headline, though
i.e. as to looking at Freud regarding Madeleine's disappearance, it's all hot air.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sir-clement-freud-madeleine-mccann-police-investigate-paedophile-mp-link-a7082806.html
The headline says it all - except that it doesn't.
Nowhere in the article does it say that SY will investigate, only that they might - makes for a good headline, though
Lots of people have holiday homes in Portugal and lots of people have had contact with the Freud family ... it doesn't mean they all automatically have a criminal past as allegedly did Sir Clement.
In my opinion what singles him out is his interest in Madeleine's case and his contact with her parents ... who initially thought they were being hoaxed when invited to his villa.
I think the relevance of the Freud connection will be checked out if it hasn't already been, as it would be remiss not to do so to enable it to be ruled in or out.
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Police may not wish to probe any link too deeply.
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Lots of people have holiday homes in Portugal and lots of people have had contact with the Freud family ... it doesn't mean they all automatically have a criminal past as allegedly did Sir Clement.
In my opinion what singles him out is his interest in Madeleine's case and his contact with her parents ... who initially thought they were being hoaxed when invited to his villa.
I think the relevance of the Freud connection will be checked out if it hasn't already been, as it would be remiss not to do so to enable it to be ruled in or out.
I didn't realised that they had been invited to his villa in PDL, I thought it was his home in UK.
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Police may not wish to probe any link too deeply.
what does that mean?
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It means they display a certain reluctance to investigate members of the 'establishment', even when dead, though that has changed of late.
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i.e. as to looking at Freud regarding Madeleine's disappearance, it's all hot air.
Though if we were to follow the accepted route, we should start a thread about the criminal past of one of the McCann's friends...
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Though if we were to follow the accepted route, we should start a thread about the criminal past of one of the McCann's friends...
What's stopping you?
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Unlike Jimmy Savile, I always rather enjoyed seeing Clement Freud on the telly or listening to him on the radio, but what a depraved creep he's turned out to be. My symapthies are with his victims, his family and also everyone else he managed to dupe with his charms. Was everyone on telly in the 70s a paedo?
He preferred his participles dangled and probably his infinitives split.
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I didn't realised that they had been invited to his villa in PDL, I thought it was his home in UK.
As the C&P will clarify ... Madeleine's parents were invited to his villa in Luz.
The first meeting, a lunch, took place in July 2007.
Freud had written them a letter saying he was 'ashamed of the intrusion to your lives by our media'.
He went on to offer: 'If you would care to come to lunch/dinner at any time before Wednesday next, do ring and let me know. I cook decent meals.'
At his villa the next day, Mrs McCann recalled his 'razor-sharp intellect' and said he treated them to a strawberry vodka followed by chicken and mushroom risotto.
He wore 'so many hats' that he was hard to pin down, Mrs McCann noted, and was 'incredibly warm, funny and instantly likeable', cheering the couple up with his 'lugubrious wit', she wrote in her book on her daughter's disappearance.
She said Freud kept in touch by email after his return to England, and called them again when he was back in Luz that August.
The next time they saw him, after the McCanns had been made suspects by bungling Portuguese police, he joked with them about the useless police investigation.
Offering Mrs McCann a brandy, he also teased her about the press coverage, saying: 'So, Kate, which of the devout Catholic, alcoholic, depressed, nymphomaniac parts is correct?', she wrote in her book Madeleine.
A source close to the McCanns said: 'Clement Freud invited them round for drinks, just to show some sympathy.
'He had a family home in Praia da Luz and the invitation came as a bolt from the blue. They were grateful for his sympathy. It was a chance for them to take time out and have a drink by someone being friendly.'
The Metropolitan Police have not commented on how the new information about Freud might relate to Operation Grange, the ongoing investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
Former murder squad detective Colin Sutton told the Telegraph: 'If this is something that investigators had not been aware of then it would be certainly a potential line of inquiry that would be worth pursuing.
'It is not something that ought to be taken lightly and you would also want to look any connections he may have had in the area at the time.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3642312/Kate-Gerry-McCann-horrified-Clement-Freud-child-abuse-claims-emerged-home-Praia-da-Luz-befriended-Madeleine-vanished.html#ixzz4BeIAmujA
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Kate said in her book;
We now knew that there had been hundreds of paedophiles on the Algarve at that time
It appears they may have been closer than she imagined.
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Kate said in her book;
We now knew that there had been hundreds of paedophiles on the Algarve at that time
It appears they may have been closer than she imagined.
Has she paid any attention to the paedophile in Leicestershire.
Why just the Algarve.
Presumably their method of childcare was not a 1 off.
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Kate said in her book;
We now knew that there had been hundreds of paedophiles on the Algarve at that time
It appears they may have been closer than she imagined.
I have been giving some thought to the devastation and betrayal Madeleine McCann's parents must be experiencing at the news that a person they thought had sought them out for altruistic reasons and who had shown them kindness in their hour of need is an alleged paedophile.
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I have been giving some thought to the devastation and betrayal Madeleine McCann's parents must be experiencing at the news that a person they thought had sought them out for altruistic reasons and who had shown them kindness in their hour of need is an alleged paedophile.
He wasn't there when she disappeared.
As to betrayal, IMO , that is what the mccanns are culpable of in not keeping their children safe.
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What's stopping you?
The fact that it's an invalid argument to smear people by the acquaintances they make.
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He wasn't there when she disappeared.
As to betrayal, IMO , that is what the mccanns are culpable of in not keeping their children safe.
Perhaps not ... but his villa was. As were the villas and domiciles of others of his alleged persuasion. Perhaps all the paedophiles and their haunts whose residence Kate noted in her book were checked out at the time, perhaps not.
We will never know.
However, it is worth bearing in mind that the parents of a kidnapped child are not the miscreants you insist on making them. The person who took her is.
To save me the bother of responding to your reply ... the answer is ...
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke, someone took her and that person or people should be the sole target of opprobrium.
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The fact that it's an invalid argument to smear people by the acquaintances they make.
In this case I think you're probably right, but it doesn't always follow...you can tell alot about a person by the company he keeps, but no one could accuse the McCanns of seeking out Clement Freud and developing any sort of regular sustained contact with him - or could they....? &%+((£
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Perhaps not ... but his villa was. As were the villas and domiciles of others of his alleged persuasion. Perhaps all the paedophiles and their haunts whose residence Kate noted in her book were checked out at the time, perhaps not.
We will never know.
However, it is worth bearing in mind that the parents of a kidnapped child are not the miscreants you insist on making them. The person who took her is.
To save me the bother of responding to your reply ... the answer is ...
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke, someone took her and that person or people should be the sole target of opprobrium.
I think we can all agree with that.
She was removed from apartment 5A - person unknown - purpose unknown.
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I think we can all agree with that.
She was removed from apartment 5A - person unknown - purpose unknown.
I thought it covered the bases for all opinions ...
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Perhaps not ... but his villa was. As were the villas and domiciles of others of his alleged persuasion. Perhaps all the paedophiles and their haunts whose residence Kate noted in her book were checked out at the time, perhaps not.
We will never know.
However, it is worth bearing in mind that the parents of a kidnapped child are not the miscreants you insist on making them. The person who took her is.
To save me the bother of responding to your reply ... the answer is ...
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke, someone took her and that person or people should be the sole target of opprobrium.
Yet again this fixation with a person or persons who have not even been proven to exist.
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Yet again this fixation with a person or persons who have not even been proven to exist.
Thats half the problem, there is no person people can be angry with, as the supports keep urging,we have a vast array of possible suspects probably all of them dud, then we have unknown possible suspects with no names or faces, but as you say no real person, quite bizarre the whole affair, its like looking for the scarlet pimpernel but at least he had a name/sign of identificationand a known motive and modus operandi
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In this case I think you're probably right, but it doesn't always follow...you can tell alot about a person by the company he keeps, but no one could accuse the McCanns of seeking out Clement Freud and developing any sort of regular sustained contact with him - or could they....? &%+((£
I believe on the night that they were told they were going to be made arguidos Kate called Clement so yes I think that could be referred to as 'seeking out' and I also believe that the friendship continued via email.
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I believe on the night that they were told they were going to be made arguidos Kate called Clement so yes I think that could be referred to as 'seeking out' and I also believe that the friendship continued via email.
To cancel a dinner invitation , perhaps?
**snip
He invited them for dinner again in September that year but they cancelled because they had been named arguidos in the investigation.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-warned-paedophile-clement-freuds-8201970?
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To cancel a dinner invitation , perhaps?
**snip
He invited them for dinner again in September that year but they cancelled because they had been named arguidos in the investigation.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-warned-paedophile-clement-freuds-8201970?
They did indeed cancel, although it was before they were formally declared arguidos. It was on the evening of 3rd September when Ricardo Paiva informed them it was imminent;
Our plans for the evening went out of the window. We cancelled an interview we were scheduled to give Paris Match and dinner with Clement Freud.
They still went to see him though;
At 9.50pm, I rang Clement. ‘Come on round,’ he said. ‘It’ll be nice to see you. But you’ll have to forgive my night-time attire.’
From Kate's book.
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Please bear in mind that the allegations against Sir Clement Freud are unproven, and should be treated as allegations.
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Please bear in mind that the allegations against Sir Clement Freud are unproven, and should be treated as allegations.
Hasn't his wife admitted he was culpable and the police were already 'aware' of his behaviour.
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Hasn't his wife admitted he was culpable and the police were already 'aware' of his behaviour.
His wife has apologised, why she did so, I've no idea. I have not seen that these allegations were made while Clement Freud was alive and able to defend himself.
I find it puzzling that no-one came forward at any time during his political career, in 1987 when he received his knighthood or when his association with the McCanns became known. It hasn't been a secret, certainly on the internet although I don't know if there were press reports at the time. It is mentioned in MADELEINE.
Like Shining I would err on the side of caution and refer to the claims as allegations.
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Hasn't his wife admitted he was culpable and the police were already 'aware' of his behaviour.
I have no issues with facts being published on this. Equally, since UK law permits aspersions cast against recently dead people, I have no issues there. (Actually, I do, but the forum rules permit it.)
I do not know whether his wife is alive or not. I certainly don't know if she has admitted to anything. And I have yet to see anything proving the police have been informed.
It would be helpful if posters stuck to facts that can be supported. But speculation, inference and guilt by association is going to hit the delete button.
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according to the Telrgraph...
Sir Clement Freud, the former broadcaster and politician, was exposed on Tuesday night as a paedophile who sexually abused girls as young as 10 for decades.
Freud, who died in 2009, spent years abusing a girl who he brought up as a daughter, and violently raped a teenager while he was an MP.
His widow, Lady Freud, has apologised to his victims, saying she is “shocked, deeply saddened and profoundly sorry” for what her husband of 58 years did to them.
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according to the Telrgraph...
Sir Clement Freud, the former broadcaster and politician, was exposed on Tuesday night as a paedophile who sexually abused girls as young as 10 for decades.
Freud, who died in 2009, spent years abusing a girl who he brought up as a daughter, and violently raped a teenager while he was an MP.
His widow, Lady Freud, has apologised to his victims, saying she is “shocked, deeply saddened and profoundly sorry” for what her husband of 58 years did to them.
Please post a link to this article.
Thank you.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/sir-clement-freud-exposed-as-a-paedophile-as-police-urged-to-pro/
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/sir-clement-freud-exposed-as-a-paedophile-as-police-urged-to-pro/
Thank you.
ETA "Enjoy unlimited content by becoming a Telegraph subscriber", which I'm not. By Martin Evans and Gordon Rayner, 15 June 2016 at 9.56am. Is this a rehash of the Exposure programme, or does it have something new?
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'Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law'.....
(unless the alleged crime is paedophilia, in which case you can just assume the man, be they dead or alive, is or was a paedo, no need for all that legal nonsense).
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according to the Telrgraph...
Sir Clement Freud, the former broadcaster and politician, was exposed on Tuesday night as a paedophile who sexually abused girls as young as 10 for decades.
Freud, who died in 2009, spent years abusing a girl who he brought up as a daughter, and violently raped a teenager while he was an MP.
His widow, Lady Freud, has apologised to his victims, saying she is “shocked, deeply saddened and profoundly sorry” for what her husband of 58 years did to them.
Was his widow really apologising to the women? Does that mean she believes their stories?
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'Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law'.....
(unless the alleged crime is paedophilia, in which case you can just assume the man, be they dead or alive, is or was a paedo, no need for all that legal nonsense).
It does appear to be the case.
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The McCanns must be appalled that they unwittingly allowed the twins contact with this man.
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
Exclusive
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
18th June 2016, 8:27 pm
PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.
Freud, who was unmasked as a child abuser last week, was also a regular at a pub in Praia da Luz dubbed The Plough and Paedophile.
The fact Freud and Murat knew each other is one in a series of odd links that the dead former Liberal MP had to the McCanns.
He had also entertained Gerry and Kate at his house in the days after Madeleine disappeared in 2007.
Murat, 43, lived close to the apartment where the three-year-old was snatched. He was named a as a suspect by Portuguese police, but later cleared of any involvement. And Freud’s Casa da Colina villa in the resort is a few hundred yards from a key sighting of Madeleine.
A Brit said that he saw a man carrying a little girl in the early hours of May 4, 2007.
The villa is also dwarfed by a huge hill that Kate, 47, was once convinced was where Madeleine was buried and begged cops to have it searched.
Her plea came in July 2007, when Freud befriended the McCanns.
Robert Hurst, landlord of the Pigs Head, said: “I find that really odd. I can’t imagine why he would suddenly want to invite them to his house.
“At the time Madeleine went, all hell was going on. Police everywhere, people just stunned and he’s straight in there having them over to dinner.
“When it came out this week that he was a paedophile, it made you wonder what he was up to?”
Freud, who was revealed in an ITV documentary to have abused girls as young as ten, also visited the nearby Plough and Harrow.
It was nicknamed the Plough and Paedophile after a Brit working there dubbed DJ Shifty went on the run when cops tried to speak to him over alleged grooming and child sex abuse images.
Christian Ridout, 32, whose parents owned the bar and lived next door to Murat, has never been traced.
In her book about Madeleine, Kate told how Freud, then 83, sent a letter out of the blue inviting them to his house for a meal.She said he offered her strawberry vodka and cooked her and Gerry, 48, risotto for dinner.
The McCanns grew fond of Freud, who once teased Kate about rumours she was a nymphomaniac.
She said in her book that his humour helped their pain, saying: “Thank God for people like Clement who kept us smiling.”
The couple are said to be horrified by the revelations about Freud.
One of his victims, Vicky Haynes, 64, went to police after reading Kate’s book four years ago.
She said he was a private man and it “beggared belief he would suddenly befriend a couple who had intense media attention”.
She is convinced Freud, who died in 2009, was part of a paedophile gang operating in Praia da Luz.
Police in the resort last night refused to say whether Freud was ever part of their investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
But a spokesman said officers are “considering” the latest information.
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'Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law'.....
(unless the alleged crime is paedophilia, in which case you can just assume the man, be they dead or alive, is or was a paedo, no need for all that legal nonsense).
Let's see, the McCanns are alive, had their arguido statuses withdrawn after Portuguese prosecutors could find no basis of any case against them and are regularly accused of direct responsibility for the death of Madeleine, and of covering up; (implicitly or explicitly, explicitly by Amaral) launching a fraudulent fund in their (dead) daughter's name.
Rum .....
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Let's see, the McCanns are alive, had their arguido statuses withdrawn after Portuguese prosecutors could find no basis of any case against them and are regularly accused of direct responsibility for the death of Madeleine, and of covering up; (implicitly or explicitly, explicitly by Amaral) launching a fraudulent fund in their (dead) daughter's name.
Rum .....
no flies around them you mean ? Stop having a laugh
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
Exclusive
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
18th June 2016, 8:27 pm
PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.
Freud, who was unmasked as a child abuser last week, was also a regular at a pub in Praia da Luz dubbed The Plough and Paedophile.
The fact Freud and Murat knew each other is one in a series of odd links that the dead former Liberal MP had to the McCanns.
He had also entertained Gerry and Kate at his house in the days after Madeleine disappeared in 2007.
Murat, 43, lived close to the apartment where the three-year-old was snatched. He was named a as a suspect by Portuguese police, but later cleared of any involvement. And Freud’s Casa da Colina villa in the resort is a few hundred yards from a key sighting of Madeleine.
A Brit said that he saw a man carrying a little girl in the early hours of May 4, 2007.
The villa is also dwarfed by a huge hill that Kate, 47, was once convinced was where Madeleine was buried and begged cops to have it searched.
Her plea came in July 2007, when Freud befriended the McCanns.
Robert Hurst, landlord of the Pigs Head, said: “I find that really odd. I can’t imagine why he would suddenly want to invite them to his house.
“At the time Madeleine went, all hell was going on. Police everywhere, people just stunned and he’s straight in there having them over to dinner.
“When it came out this week that he was a paedophile, it made you wonder what he was up to?”
Freud, who was revealed in an ITV documentary to have abused girls as young as ten, also visited the nearby Plough and Harrow.
It was nicknamed the Plough and Paedophile after a Brit working there dubbed DJ Shifty went on the run when cops tried to speak to him over alleged grooming and child sex abuse images.
Christian Ridout, 32, whose parents owned the bar and lived next door to Murat, has never been traced.
In her book about Madeleine, Kate told how Freud, then 83, sent a letter out of the blue inviting them to his house for a meal.She said he offered her strawberry vodka and cooked her and Gerry, 48, risotto for dinner.
The McCanns grew fond of Freud, who once teased Kate about rumours she was a nymphomaniac.
She said in her book that his humour helped their pain, saying: “Thank God for people like Clement who kept us smiling.”
The couple are said to be horrified by the revelations about Freud.
One of his victims, Vicky Haynes, 64, went to police after reading Kate’s book four years ago.
She said he was a private man and it “beggared belief he would suddenly befriend a couple who had intense media attention”.
She is convinced Freud, who died in 2009, was part of a paedophile gang operating in Praia da Luz.
Police in the resort last night refused to say whether Freud was ever part of their investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
But a spokesman said officers are “considering” the latest information.
so freud was 83 at the time and his alledged crime was grooming from 10 years old until attacking at 18
Hardly a status for abducting a three yr old , hed be , well, probably dead by that time, pathetic
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so freud was 83 at the time and his alledged crime was grooming from 10 years old until attacking at 18
Hardly a status for abducting a three yr old , hed be , well, probably dead by that time, pathetic
I think you're missing the real point in the article, Merc, but never mind.
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I think you're missing the real point in the article, Merc, but never mind.
Makes reading between the lines very depressing Misty. I've been thinking about the sketch of 'ugly, spotty man'.
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Makes reading between the lines very depressing Misty. I've been thinking about the sketch of 'ugly, spotty man'.
You would have thought they would say "it looked like Clement Freud".
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I think you're missing the real point in the article, Merc, but never mind.
...and the real point is ?
Pass the buck to anyone else, but the Mccanns. 8)-)))
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You would have thought they would say "it looked like Clement Freud".
We are told Sir Clement wasn't in Luz at the time Madeleine disappeared ~ but apparently many were. Some of whom became subject of interest of the PJ at the time and some of whose files were part of the request for confidentiality.
Perhaps an explanation of the resistance experienced by SY to their renewed investigation centered in Luz.
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We are told Sir Clement wasn't in Luz at the time Madeleine disappeared ~ but apparently many were. Some of whom became subject of interest of the PJ at the time and some of whose files were part of the request for confidentiality.
Perhaps an explanation of the resistance experienced by SY to their renewed investigation centered in Luz.
Or just desperation on your part ?
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'Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law'.....
(unless the alleged crime is paedophilia, in which case you can just assume the man, be they dead or alive, is or was a paedo, no need for all that legal nonsense).
Spammers, I think the issue has been; there have been cover ups on a scale that is incomprehensible. Yes , some people do jmp on a band wagon I agree, so each case should be treated individually.
It was made knows to Doctor friend of mine that 5 boys all from different areas, (one from Africa) all at different times, made a claim about another doctor. They were dissmissed as fantasists and trouble makers and attention seekers. What he did to those boys, I wouldn't put in print. When that doctor died someone made a joke about getting horny alter boys... that was taken seriously when the doctors own son stood up and told everyone that he wasn't the great dad, and up standing member of the community everyone thought he was. A scuffle broke out and my doctor friend said he had clinical evidence that the son was speaking the truth.
Not all are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law. SOME ARE JUST GUILTY.
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The McCanns must be appalled that they unwittingly allowed the twins contact with this man.
Became friends...
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Became friends...
Weren't the McCanns Arguidos when they met Freud ?
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We were previously told that Luz was a hiding place for many British paedophiles who were subsequently interviewed by the police so could that have include Clement Freud?
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We were previously told that Luz was a hiding place for many British paedophiles who were subsequently interviewed by the police so could that have include Clement Freud?
It has been reported UK police already knew about him at leat 2 years ago.
He wasn't according to the information available in Portugal when Madeleine disappeared.
Freud appears to be yet another diversion away from the McCanns.
Have you 'read' the Sun article ?
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
Exclusive
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
18th June 2016, 8:27 pm
PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.
Freud, who was unmasked as a child abuser last week, was also a regular at a pub in Praia da Luz dubbed The Plough and Paedophile.
“At the time Madeleine went, all hell was going on. Police everywhere, people just stunned and he’s straight in there having them over to dinner.
“When it came out this week that he was a paedophile, it made you wonder what he was up to?”
Well I could think of a few things he could have been up to since he would have known quite a few offenders in the Luz area. It is well known that sex offenders and paedophiles form associations.
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Well I could think of a few things he could have been up to since he would have known quite a few offenders in the Luz area. It is well known that sex offenders and paedophiles form associations.
That is supposition.
He could have been there just for a holiday.
We will never know now.
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Well I could think of a few things he could have been up to since he would have known quite a few offenders in the Luz area. It is well known that sex offenders and paedophiles form associations.
Wondering about 3 things
1. Kate saying they have taken her... who were 'they'? She also claimed she 'knows' what happened to her.
2. Gerry was asked if he knew or had met Murat before... I can't remeebr the response
3.Gerry also mentioned paedophiles- how did he know about them, and why did they ask for her to be returned knowing that sex offenders who abduct children NEVER give them BACK! All very interesting to say the least.
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Wondering about 3 things
1. Kate saying they have taken her... who were 'they'? She also claimed she 'knows' what happened to her.
2. Gerry was asked if he knew or had met Murat before... I can't remeebr the response
3.Gerry also mentioned paedophiles- how did he know about them, and why did they ask for her to be returned knowing that sex offenders who abduct children NEVER give them BACK! All very interesting to say the least.
It's good to wonder.
I believe mccann's answer to the second question was 'no comment'.
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
Freud was on 'nodding terms' with former suspect in tot's disappearance as well as being a regular at a pub 'for paedos'
Exclusive
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
18th June 2016, 8:27 pm
PAEDOPHILE Clement Freud regularly drank at a pub frequented by the former prime suspect in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
He and Robert Murat were on “nodding terms” at the Pigs Head, according to the landlord of the boozer in Portugal.
Freud, who was unmasked as a child abuser last week, was also a regular at a pub in Praia da Luz dubbed The Plough and Paedophile.
The fact Freud and Murat knew each other is one in a series of odd links that the dead former Liberal MP had to the McCanns.
He had also entertained Gerry and Kate at his house in the days after Madeleine disappeared in 2007.
Murat, 43, lived close to the apartment where the three-year-old was snatched. He was named a as a suspect by Portuguese police, but later cleared of any involvement. And Freud’s Casa da Colina villa in the resort is a few hundred yards from a key sighting of Madeleine.
A Brit said that he saw a man carrying a little girl in the early hours of May 4, 2007.
The villa is also dwarfed by a huge hill that Kate, 47, was once convinced was where Madeleine was buried and begged cops to have it searched.
Her plea came in July 2007, when Freud befriended the McCanns.
Robert Hurst, landlord of the Pigs Head, said: “I find that really odd. I can’t imagine why he would suddenly want to invite them to his house.
“At the time Madeleine went, all hell was going on. Police everywhere, people just stunned and he’s straight in there having them over to dinner.
“When it came out this week that he was a paedophile, it made you wonder what he was up to?”
Freud, who was revealed in an ITV documentary to have abused girls as young as ten, also visited the nearby Plough and Harrow.
It was nicknamed the Plough and Paedophile after a Brit working there dubbed DJ Shifty went on the run when cops tried to speak to him over alleged grooming and child sex abuse images.
Christian Ridout, 32, whose parents owned the bar and lived next door to Murat, has never been traced.
In her book about Madeleine, Kate told how Freud, then 83, sent a letter out of the blue inviting them to his house for a meal.She said he offered her strawberry vodka and cooked her and Gerry, 48, risotto for dinner.
The McCanns grew fond of Freud, who once teased Kate about rumours she was a nymphomaniac.
She said in her book that his humour helped their pain, saying: “Thank God for people like Clement who kept us smiling.”
The couple are said to be horrified by the revelations about Freud.
One of his victims, Vicky Haynes, 64, went to police after reading Kate’s book four years ago.
She said he was a private man and it “beggared belief he would suddenly befriend a couple who had intense media attention”.
She is convinced Freud, who died in 2009, was part of a paedophile gang operating in Praia da Luz.
Police in the resort last night refused to say whether Freud was ever part of their investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
But a spokesman said officers are “considering” the latest information.
We have visited the Pig's Head once, for a family Sunday Lunch. It is about half way between Luz and Burgau, so it seems an odd place for either Murat or Freud to use as a watering hole.
I would rate it as a bit below average. Not a dump but somewhat less than middle class.
I could not eat my lunch. I happen to like small portions of good food. The idea here was pile it high and sell it cheap. And cheap lamb in a roast is a non-starter. The chef was ex-army, and he was obviously still working to the idea the army-bods need 3,000 calories a day to cope with a very active lifestyle. Out of a large family group, no-one actually thought the meal was good.
The bar tender was gruff and unfriendly. I don't know whether he was the landlord noted in this article.
Anyway, we chalked it off our list of places for Sunday lunch.
I cannot for a moment see someone like Freud frequenting such a place. The idea that someone who likes good food and strawberry vodkas would travel to get to a somewhat downmarket pub/restaurant sounds a bit off.
I can't make any judgement about Robert Murat using it, based on a character assessment, as I don't know enough about him.
Moving on to the Plough, the son of the owners was, allegedly, guilty of a paedophile offence. He is mentioned, not by name, in Amaral's book. The parents said he was in Iraq at the time, IIRC, and the PJ confirmed that, so he was ruled out.
The Plough changed hands and was later run by Paul and June Wright, who feature in the files. On 3 May 2007, they were running the Duque de Hollandia, and both took part in the search for Madeleine. June was also asked whether Murat was around 5A that evening, as she knew him by sight, and she says she did not see him.
That just leaves me with the small puzzle of how Antonella Lazzeri got in touch with Robert Hurst, the landlord of the Pig's Head, a pub/restaurant that is outside Luz. Either her contact list is immense, or Hurst must have got in touch with her when the Freud story broke.
I have to say, with the quality and tone of writing in the article, I wonder how much of it has simply been cobbled together to get a sensationalist 'paedophile ring' angle.
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We were previously told that Luz was a hiding place for many British paedophiles who were subsequently interviewed by the police so could that have include Clement Freud?
We haven't been told that at all.
Joana Morais has posted a piece from Correia da Manha which says the UK police sent a list of 10 to 12 paedophiles who had connections to the ALGARVE to the PJ, and that these were investigated and ruled out.
That would have been in Amaral or Rebelo's tenures, before the PJ enquiry was archived. Freud was not on the radar then, hence not investigated.
The allegations against him were all made after his death, in April 2009. So if OG dug into the connection, they did so after he died. Since I didn't track the story, I can't be certain about the media, but it looks like the first time this connection surfaced was when Kate's book was published in 2011
Given the villa is in Luz, any viable connection should have involved the dogs, whether in 2007 (hardly) or 2014 when allegation(s) had surfaced.
Either Freud and the villa have been ruled out (don't see how, but hey-ho) or Freud has only recently been linked to the McCann case.
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It is no secret that paeds share their stuff, they also congregate where there are children, holiday parks, parks, schools,nurseries, youth clubs,churches,swiming pools etc. why not a holiday resort?
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I'm never at ease with sensational revelations made about people after their death ... or the use of the Moorov doctrine in cases of historic abuse involving neither those incapable of speaking for themselves such as infants, or vulnerable children or adults.
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It would appear that the landlord of the Pig's Head actually said Freud was in the pub once. And never with Murat.
And the guy from the Plough departed Luz, never to return, in 2005.
Allegedly.
8((()*/
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It would appear that the landlord of the Pig's Head actually said Freud was in the pub once. And never with Murat.
And the guy from the Plough departed Luz, never to return, in 2005.
Allegedly.
8((()*/
I wonder how he would remember that specific thing?
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I wonder how he would remember that specific thing?
The Freud visit was allegedly 20 years ago. A donkey could have ID'd Freud. That bit is easy.
The other bit is harder. Why would he recognise Murat? Do people in pubs say "Hello, my surname is Murat, and I would like a pint of your best ..."
Can't see that happening.
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The Freud visit was allegedly 20 years ago. A donkey could have ID'd Freud. That bit is easy.
The other bit is harder. Why would he recognise Murat? Do people in pubs say "Hello, my surname is Murat, and I would like a pint of your best ..."
Can't see that happening.
You could ask the same question to Martin Smith.
For a man who apparently spent most of his life between 1990 & 2003 in the UK, RM appears to have become a familiar figure in Luz after that time & prior to May 2007.
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You could ask the same question to Martin Smith.
For a man who apparently spent most of his life between 1990 & 2003 in the UK, RM appears to have become a familiar figure in Luz after that time & prior to May 2007.
So what ?
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So Misty, is this yet another attempt by a mccann supporter to put Murat in the frame ? 8)-)))
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Robert Hurst
As the landlord of The Pigs Head I can categorically state that this article is factually ridiculous .When asked if Clement Freud had been a regular in the pub I told them he had been here once at least 20 years ago.Further when asked about Robert Murat I told them he had also been in here once about 8years ago.How they then manage to connect the two of them is another piece of nonsense.As the next question asked was did I know Robert to which I said we were on nodding terms,which when you consider we have lived about 2 miles apart for 30 years is fairly normal.The fact that they then tack on a re hashed story from many years ago just makes the article confusing and misleading .The two bars and two stories are not connected in any way as I suspect nether were Freud and Murat.This type of irresponsible journalism can do no good what so ever for anyone.Heavan only knows what kind of feeding frenzy will be unleashed next year on the tenth anniversary .Yours in total honestly Robert Mark Hurst ,proprietor of The Pigs Head pub mentioned in this article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
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Robert Hurst
As the landlord of The Pigs Head I can categorically state that this article is factually ridiculous .When asked if Clement Freud had been a regular in the pub I told them he had been here once at least 20 years ago.Further when asked about Robert Murat I told them he had also been in here once about 8years ago.How they then manage to connect the two of them is another piece of nonsense.As the next question asked was did I know Robert to which I said we were on nodding terms,which when you consider we have lived about 2 miles apart for 30 years is fairly normal.The fact that they then tack on a re hashed story from many years ago just makes the article confusing and misleading .The two bars and two stories are not connected in any way as I suspect nether were Freud and Murat.This type of irresponsible journalism can do no good what so ever for anyone.Heavan only knows what kind of feeding frenzy will be unleashed next year on the tenth anniversary .Yours in total honestly Robert Mark Hurst ,proprietor of The Pigs Head pub mentioned in this article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
Thanks for that Pathfinder.
The truth is the very thing the newspapers don't to print.
The deflection from the mccanns has become ridiculous.
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You could ask the same question to Martin Smith.
For a man who apparently spent most of his life between 1990 & 2003 in the UK, RM appears to have become a familiar figure in Luz after that time & prior to May 2007.
Wasn't Robert Murat a scion of port wine etc. aristocracy and as such could be expected to be well known locally?
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Thanks for that Pathfinder.
The truth is the very thing the newspapers don't to print.
The deflection from the mccanns has become ridiculous.
At least one Sun reporter has been exposed as a fantasist then.
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At least one Sun reporter has been exposed as a fantasist then.
Interesting punctuation in that post from R. Hurst in the Sun.
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At least one Sun reporter has been exposed as a fantasist then.
She is , and a friend of the McCanns.
IMHO.
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Wasn't Robert Murat a scion of port wine etc. aristocracy and as such could be expected to be well known locally?
Not well enough for someone who had apparently known the family for 30 years.
*snipped*
SECOND PAGE BATISTA
She's here as a witness. She is responsible for maintenance in the Ocean Club Resort located in Praia da Luz - Lagos. Because of her profession she knows many people of the English community, who live in Praia da Luz.
She knows the Murat (sic !) family, who has been there for about 30 years. In particular Mr. Murat and his wife Jenny. Mr. Murat was linked to building business and development of tourism enterprises, in Salema in her opinion. Mr. Murat died some years ago.
The Murat live in a house named "casa Liliana", near the Ocean Club.
Asked, she said not to remember whether the Murats have any child.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
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Robert Hurst
As the landlord of The Pigs Head I can categorically state that this article is factually ridiculous .When asked if Clement Freud had been a regular in the pub I told them he had been here once at least 20 years ago.Further when asked about Robert Murat I told them he had also been in here once about 8years ago.How they then manage to connect the two of them is another piece of nonsense.As the next question asked was did I know Robert to which I said we were on nodding terms,which when you consider we have lived about 2 miles apart for 30 years is fairly normal.The fact that they then tack on a re hashed story from many years ago just makes the article confusing and misleading .The two bars and two stories are not connected in any way as I suspect nether were Freud and Murat.This type of irresponsible journalism can do no good what so ever for anyone.Heavan only knows what kind of feeding frenzy will be unleashed next year on the tenth anniversary .Yours in total honestly Robert Mark Hurst ,proprietor of The Pigs Head pub mentioned in this article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1304699/clement-freud-drank-with-madeleine-mccann-suspect-and-at-perv-pub-with-child-sex-beast-dj-shifty/
Where was that rebuttal published out of interest?
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Where was that rebuttal published out of interest?
In the comments section under the Sun article, 3rd newest.
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In the comments section under the Sun article, 3rd newest.
Oh right. So 100% confirmed as the god's honest truth then. Not.
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Wasn't Robert Murat a scion of port wine etc. aristocracy and as such could be expected to be well known locally?
I think that was the Symingtons, one of whom [David] was part owner of the Ocean Club.
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Natasha acting for the Portuguese defence:-
http://portugalresident.com/burgau-pub-landlord-trashes-british-press-for-latest-mccann-%E2%80%9Clunacy%E2%80%9D
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Natasha acting for the Portuguese defence:-
http://portugalresident.com/burgau-pub-landlord-trashes-british-press-for-latest-mccann-%E2%80%9Clunacy%E2%80%9D
That landlord doesn't sound Portuguese to me.
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That landlord doesn't sound Portuguese to me.
He doesn't but he's clearly been there a long time. A piccy would have been nice, if only to prove Natasha wasn't just rehashing the comment in the Sun.
ETA
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g312712-d1794750-r371583069-Pigs_Head-Burgau_Faro_District_Algarve.html
Cross this guy at your peril! He's up to speed on the libel laws if not the hospitality.
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He doesn't but he's clearly been there a long time. A piccy would have been nice, if only to prove Natasha wasn't just rehashing the comment in the Sun.
ETA
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g312712-d1794750-r371583069-Pigs_Head-Burgau_Faro_District_Algarve.html
Cross this guy at your peril! He's up to speed on the libel laws if not the hospitality.
Well he's been there a long time and gets great reviews on the whole. I expect that's why he doesn't appreciate being accused of trying to pass of one drink as another, particularly as the drink he was accused of serving isn't available in Portugal.
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He doesn't but he's clearly been there a long time. A piccy would have been nice, if only to prove Natasha wasn't just rehashing the comment in the Sun.
ETA
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g312712-d1794750-r371583069-Pigs_Head-Burgau_Faro_District_Algarve.html
Cross this guy at your peril! He's up to speed on the libel laws if not the hospitality.
A piccy of what? Natasha has additional information that isn't in the Sun. Perhaps she just picked up a phone and talked to the landlord.
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Oh right. So 100% confirmed as the god's honest truth then. Not.
As much as any other bit of literature in this case...
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A piccy of what? Natasha has additional information that isn't in the Sun. Perhaps she just picked up a phone and talked to the landlord.
So, different stories from different reporters. Perhaps "Rotten" didn't know the 2 men he first spoke to were investigators, Who knows what the truth is?
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The Freud visit was allegedly 20 years ago. A donkey could have ID'd Freud. That bit is easy.
The other bit is harder. Why would he recognise Murat? Do people in pubs say "Hello, my surname is Murat, and I would like a pint of your best ..."
Can't see that happening.
In a small place like Pdl I can understand a landlord finding out who his customers are.
What I cannot understand is how a landlord would remember if one specific customer had chatted with another specific customer, years before.
That's not the sort of thing that one notices and remembers usually. imo
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So, different stories from different reporters. Perhaps "Rotten" didn't know the 2 men he first spoke to were investigators, Who knows what the truth is?
I have no idea what CF's preferred watering hole was in Luz. Going through the lot, I'm struggling to find many that would pass the champagne or strawberry vodka test.
It seems the landlord claims the source is a mangled conversation with 2 men who came in for a drink and asked a few questions before they left.
Perhaps the Sun sent in a couple of investigators to the Pig's Head when they were sitting on the CF story. But why connect CF to the Pig's Head? This sounds extremely unlikely to me.
Perhaps the 2 guys asked all the relevant questions before the CF story broke, and got in touch with the Sun to add their tuppence worth. As to why they would be asking about CF? This also sounds extremely unlikely to me.
The only other option I can think of is that the CF story broke, and that the landlord of the Pig's Head got in touch with the Sun about this revelation. As per free advertising. Then the story got written up with a distinct paedo flavour, and the landlord backed off very rapidly. Of course, I cannot provide evidence of that, so as you say, who knows what the truth is?
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He doesn't but he's clearly been there a long time. A piccy would have been nice, if only to prove Natasha wasn't just rehashing the comment in the Sun.
ETA
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g312712-d1794750-r371583069-Pigs_Head-Burgau_Faro_District_Algarve.html
Cross this guy at your peril! He's up to speed on the libel laws if not the hospitality.
Yes, if Natasha was a "real" journo she would have phoned up the Pigs Head and asked for a quote from the publican himself, not simply assumed that the person leaving the message on the Sun's website was the actual landlord himself. That's the MSM for you I guess....lazy, lazy, lazy.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Clbf1LEWIAAC2YE.jpg:large)
https://t.co/PFBAiKptTW
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Yes, if Natasha was a "real" journo she would have phoned up the Pigs Head and asked for a quote from the publican himself, not simply assumed that the person leaving the message on the Sun's website was the actual landlord himself. That's the MSM for you I guess....lazy, lazy, lazy.
I do not know why you write this sort of stuff.
From Natasha's article
“It’s absolute lunacy,” Hurst told the Resident. “It wasn’t even an interview. Two people came in and had a drink, and then asked me a few questions as they were leaving.”
Hurst did, however, have one memory of Clement Freud’s visit to his establishment.
“He came in with a friend, who asked me whether we had any champagne,” he told the Resident.
“I said that we didn’t. He asked me ‘why ever not’, in a superior kind of way. I said because it might attract the wrong kind of clientele.”
Hurst claims “no one believes a word” of the latest stories
How many quotes from the landlord do you need before you accept that the landlord and the Resident were in direct conversation?
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In a small place like Pdl I can understand a landlord finding out who his customers are.
What I cannot understand is how a landlord would remember if one specific customer had chatted with another specific customer, years before.
That's not the sort of thing that one notices and remembers usually. imo
Why not ?
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I do not know why you write this sort of stuff.
From Natasha's article
“It’s absolute lunacy,” Hurst told the Resident. “It wasn’t even an interview. Two people came in and had a drink, and then asked me a few questions as they were leaving.”
Hurst did, however, have one memory of Clement Freud’s visit to his establishment.
“He came in with a friend, who asked me whether we had any champagne,” he told the Resident.
“I said that we didn’t. He asked me ‘why ever not’, in a superior kind of way. I said because it might attract the wrong kind of clientele.”
Hurst claims “no one believes a word” of the latest stories
How many quotes from the landlord do you need before you accept that the landlord and the Resident were in direct conversation?
My apologies to Natasha Donn, I didn't read the article properly, I'm suitably ashamed, and beg forgiveness for my utter stupidity. She is not a lazy journalist, I'm a lazy sod for skim reading the article.
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My apologies to Natasha Donn, I didn't read the article properly, I'm suitably ashamed, and beg forgiveness for my utter stupidity. She is not a lazy journalist, I'm a lazy sod for not skim reading the article.
I think she is a lazy journalist.
The story was about Clement Freud. She knew Freud had entertained the McCanns at his villa. Did she seek out comments from the neighbours in the vicinity of his villa? No, she chose to pick up on the aspect of the Sun linking 2 men to a particular pub well away from either of their homes.
Which parts of the real news story do locals have difficulty believing, other than RM knew Freud?
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I think she is a lazy journalist.
The story was about Clement Freud. She knew Freud had entertained the McCanns at his villa. Did she seek out comments from the neighbours in the vicinity of his villa? No, she chose to pick up on the aspect of the Sun linking 2 men to a particular pub well away from either of their homes.
Which parts of the real news story do locals have difficulty believing, other than RM knew Freud?
Ok, you've convinced me @)(++(*
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I think she is a lazy journalist.
The story was about Clement Freud. She knew Freud had entertained the McCanns at his villa. Did she seek out comments from the neighbours in the vicinity of his villa? No, she chose to pick up on the aspect of the Sun linking 2 men to a particular pub well away from either of their homes.
Which parts of the real news story do locals have difficulty believing, other than RM knew Freud?
in
This local has trouble in believing the original Sun story, in it's entirety.
Landlord of the Pig's Head says Freud was in his pub once, 20 years ago. Murat was in his pub, about 8 years ago. From that, the Sun says Freud and Murat were on nodding terms. The landlord of the Pig's head says he - the landlord - was on nodding terms with Murat.
The Sun then joins this to the Plough, a pub perhaps 3 miles away. It puts one or both of CF and RM as frequenters of this, without a shred of evidence.
The Sun makes it the Paedo Plough, again without a shred of evidence. So we are now supposed to believe there was a paedo pub in Luz, where CF and Murat met, and whilst the paedos were all aware of this, the locals either did not know, or worse, they turned a blind eye.
The Plough is in the PJ Files, so you can look up the reality.
The Pig's Head is not in the PJ Files, so you've got a choice of running with the Sun or with the Algarve Resident.
Natasha Donn made 1 major error in her article. Without trawling through the Sun article or the Natasha Donn article, does anyone know what it is?
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I think she is a lazy journalist.
The story was about Clement Freud. She knew Freud had entertained the McCanns at his villa. Did she seek out comments from the neighbours in the vicinity of his villa? No, she chose to pick up on the aspect of the Sun linking 2 men to a particular pub well away from either of their homes.
Which parts of the real news story do locals have difficulty believing, other than RM knew Freud?
It is Lazerri who is the lazy journalist, typing pap.
IMHO.
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It is Lazerri who is the lazy journalist, typing pap.
IMHO.
ITV had sat on the Freud Exposure for at least 3 months.
I wonder at what stage these 2 gentlemen called on Mr "Rotten" & spoke to him about Freud and why the conversation included RM, who was not, after all, on the list of known paedophiles frequenting the local watering holes?
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ITV had sat on the Freud Exposure for at least 3 months.
I wonder at what stage these 2 gentlemen called on Mr "Rotten" & spoke to him about Freud and why the conversation included RM, who was not, after all, on the list of known paedophiles frequenting the local watering holes?
It has been reported the Police knew about Freud at least 2 years ago.
This clutching at straws is quite pathetic.
IMHO.
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It has been reported the Police knew about Freud at least 2 years ago.
This clutching at straws is quite pathetic.
IMHO.
Yes, I know the police were told about Freud 2 years ago.
Question is - of all the people in Luz whom Freud probably did socialise with, why focus on an apparent non-connection?
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Yes, I know the police w4ere told about Freud 2 years ago.
Question is - of all the people in Luz whom Freud probably did socialise with, why focus on an apparent non-connection?
Ask Ms. Lazerri.
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I think she is a lazy journalist.
The story was about Clement Freud. She knew Freud had entertained the McCanns at his villa. Did she seek out comments from the neighbours in the vicinity of his villa? No, she chose to pick up on the aspect of the Sun linking 2 men to a particular pub well away from either of their homes.
Which parts of the real news story do locals have difficulty believing, other than RM knew Freud?
In my opinion a useful attribute in a journalistic career is an enquiring mind. Maybe Shining should give some consideration to gaining her credentials. I'll guarantee she would somehow have engineered a good old chin wag with the relevant people if she had them.
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/madeleine-clement-freud-villa/
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Clbf1LEWIAAC2YE.jpg:large)
https://t.co/PFBAiKptTW
If that map is accurate, and it seems to be, then Kate and Gerry would run right past Freuds villa, up the narrow roadway to the area leading to the obelisk. This was quiet and incredibly steep. When I went up there, (just to the lower level) my hubby parked somewhere almost opposite CF's gateway. I was puffed just getting up to the lower plateau at about 30 metres above sea level
I think that Kate and Gerry did this run every day. They must have been incredibly fit. According to GE the obelisk is 109 metres above sea level (equal in height to a 30+ storey building.) I doubt many people would be able to run up that incline.
Maybe Freud saw them running past each day and that made him more interested than he might have been otherwise?
Only a suggestion.
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If that map is accurate, and it seems to be, then Kate and Gerry would run right past Freuds villa, up the narrow roadway to the area leading to the obelisk. This was quiet and incredibly steep. When I went up there, (just to the lower level) my hubby parked somewhere almost opposite CF's gateway. I was puffed just getting up to the lower plateau at about 30 metres above sea level
I think that Kate and Gerry did this run every day. They must have been incredibly fit. According to GE the obelisk is 109 metres above sea level (equal in height to a 30+ storey building.) I doubt many people would be able to run up that incline.
Maybe Freud saw them running past each day and that made him more interested than he might have been otherwise?
Only a suggestion.
This graphic is somewhat better re Freud's villa than the one I used on my blog, so well done.
The no-through road is the main way for tourists etc to get to the top of the cliffs and it does match the Kate and Gerry jogging photo I have seen.
May I enquire why you were up there? And at the top end of the road, it peters out onto a large flat plateau where locals take their dogs to let them romp off the lead. Didn't you go up and park there?
I just hope I don't have to attempt the cliff ascent again until it cools off. The last time I tried was about 3pm on the final day of the OG dig. I thought it was cool enough, but the chemist's sign was 33C. I got to within 100 or 150 yards of the top, but by that time I was baked, desiccated, and getting close to a heart attack. So I turned round.
Don't get me wrong. I have been up and down the cliffs. And I've seen many a person do the same, including one guy who did it both up and down on a mountain bike.
And I've also seen a lot of people making the ascent/descent on all fours at the crunchy bits.
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[Quote from: ShiningInLuz on June 21, 2016, 10:27:47 PM]
Shinings words in black
My responses in Maroon
This graphic is somewhat better re Freud's villa than the one I used on my blog, so well done.
All credit to Pathfinder for that. She found it. I just repasted it.
The no-through road is the main way for tourists etc to get to the top of the cliffs and it does match the Kate and Gerry jogging photo I have seen.
May I enquire why you were up there? And at the top end of the road, it peters out onto a large flat plateau where locals take their dogs to let them romp off the lead. Didn't you go up and park there?
In 2010 I came to PdL expressly to look for Madeleine McCann ... and also to follow up a theory that I had about someone interesting in the case, who was from the north of PT.... but also had links to the PdL / Algarve area.
It was whistle stop. Three days in PdL, three days in Lisbon mainly to look up a couple of friends ... and three days in the Porto area ... but I packed a good deal into those few days, and discovered amazing things.
I was interested in the plateau area because a forum friend had a theory about it, based on things she had noticed and possible Volcanic caves and lava tubes underneath. She thought that Madeleine might have been taken there.
I realised that a big cavern underneath that plateau might be possible because I had visited Lanzarote and seen amazing enormous caverns there along with lava tubes. Lanzarote is very volcanic. The Rocha Negro gave me the clue that PdL might also be volcanic. Black or red rock is often volcanic.
In Lisbon I was able to confirm via an expert, that the Rocha Negro is the result of volcanic activity there. Terrifically high temperature flows of volcanic molten rock can flow for miles and as they flow the outer shell cools and so forms a tube. Some of these lava tubes are of massive diameter. I have seen a concert hall, complete with many tiers of seats within one.
I suspect that PdL is riddled with volcanic tubes and quite possibly huge caverns underground as after much searching I found a website stating that there was a presently extinct volcano just 10 miles (or was it 10 Km ? ... cant remember) inland.
I also was aware that the lights of a vehicle were reported to have been seen driving up there, towards the plateau, late on May 3rd 2007
Jeez have just thought. Hope it went beyond CF's place. I think it did. From the way it was worded I thought it went to the plateau.
When we went up, in 2010, I left my hubby and the car high up en route, fairly near the Plateau area, probably outside CF's rather nice pile, because the already narrow road was narrowing and twisting with walls and we suspected a dead end. Didn't want to have to back all the way down.
My visit was only partially successful because I was wearing shorts and the undergrowth was scratchy. Also I am diabetic and cannot afford to get low on sugars. Climbing drastically lowers my sugar levels. I didn't want a hypo
I just hope I don't have to attempt the cliff ascent again until it cools off. The last time I tried was about 3pm on the final day of the OG dig. I thought it was cool enough, but the chemist's sign was 33C. I got to within 100 or 150 yards of the top, but by that time I was baked, desiccated, and getting close to a heart attack. So I turned round.
Don't get me wrong. I have been up and down the cliffs. And I've seen many a person do the same, including one guy who did it both up and down on a mountain bike.
And I've also seen a lot of people making the ascent/descent on all fours at the crunchy bits.
[End quote]
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I think posters should be aware that Robert Hurst of the Pigs Head Pub in Burgau has just joined the forum. Maybe those who doubt the veracity of the newspaper report by Natasha can ask him directly?
I for one believe in exposing Press and media lies, I hope Robert takes this opportunity to do so as so many others have done here in the past.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/nintchdbpict000245625825.jpg?w=960)
The Pigs Head Pub, Burgau, Algarve, Portugal.
(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/39/db/50/pigs-head.jpg)
Landlord Pigs Head Pub (Courtesy The Management July 2013)
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I think posters should be aware that Robert Hurst of the Pigs Head Pub in Burgau has just joined the forum. Maybe those who doubt the veracity of the newspaper report by Natasha can ask him directly?
I for one believe in exposing Press and media lies, I hope Robert takes this opportunity to do so as so many others have done here in the past.
A big welcome to Robert. It is good to have people from on the spot near PdL.
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snip- I suspect that PdL is riddled with volcanic tubes and quite possibly huge caverns underground as after much searching I found a website stating that there was a presently extinct volcano just 10 miles (or was it 10 Km ? ... cant remember) inland.
It is possible that there might have been other smaller branch eruptions from the volcano that appears at Rocha Negro and the entrances to these may now be hidden within buildings, deliberately built over them.
Some people who built over any entrances would have done it for business purposes. Others might have done it for nepharious purposes. The Romans used lava tunnels and other natural tunnels to store things in.
Someone on the now sadly gone forum PFA2 produced maps of tunnels in PdL. I have no idea if they were complete or just partial maps ... but they were quite extensive.
Furthermore I have no idea whether there are openings that connect to the inside of a possible network of tunnels /Caverns under that plateau.
What is pretty certain, imo, and from those wonderful images that Pathfinder posted showing the sharp edged plateaus, is that some enormous ground movement has taken place milleniums ago.
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Just to clear up a few issues regarding the news story in question.First of all the two people that visited me that day were a female journalist (who I now know to be Antonella Lazzeri) and her photographer a seemingly friendly chap from Barnsley.The two ordered a small beer and a can of Sprite and went outside on the back terrace,then repeated the order.He started chatting about football as we have a huge collection of shirts on the wall in our games room.The subject then switched to whether or not we get a lot of celebrity visitors and footballers coming in the place.I said over 22 years we had had a good many call in.Which is when she said "actually we were in a bar in Luz earlier and the barman said he once met Clement Freud in here".It turns out the barman worked for us about 20 years ago ,he later phoned up to apolgise saying it was an innocent comment and not meant to unleash the shit storm it had.
I said that Clement Freud had been in here once about 20 years ago ,the reason I remember was it was not that long after we had opened and his face was well known to most people for amongst other things the dog food adverts.I reiterated once only and told her my story about the champagne and also his friend saying"do you know who he is" to which I replied "of course ,isn't he the gentleman that did the dog food adverts".This exchange was probably a factor in his never returning again I told the two of them.
She next asked if Robert Murat had ever called in to which I responded "yes once about 8 years ago for Sunday lunch with his family" I then added that " it was shortly after he had been cleared in the Maddie case". She then volunteered the information that she was a journalist ,and that she was with The Sun.To which I sighed"oh dear" and she countered with "oh your not a Liverpool fan as well are you" ." No I'm from Sheffield and know only too well how terrible the South Yorkshire police were due to my own experiences in the 70".
Her next question was did I know Robert to which I replied "of course I do and not only because he's been a high profile person in the news over the McCann case,but also because he lived about 2 miles away when he was younger,his Aunty and uncle lived a few hundred yards away and across almost 30 years it would be quite normal that we would know who one another were.
"So how would you describe your relationship with Robert" she probed to which I replied "we are just about on nodding terms " This she then somehow twists in her story to be about Freud and Murat.
Regarding Natasha Donn she called me as we have known each other since when we first came here to live,she original miss quoted that there had been two male journalists ,so after I contacted her she rectified this.
As for the speculation about the wall mural it relates directly to a gross misunderstanding with the local police who once set up a stop operation on our lower level car park.They refused to cease it when I requested saying it was a public area ,I told them it was our land.They still refused so I took some photos hoping to show them to a lawyer ,that such a thing might not become a regular occurrence ( you can imagine trading alcohol under such conditions could be tricky).
Anyway they arrested me saying I was a danger to national security as it was illegal to take images of a police operation in progress .My missus called a lawyer wh *&*%£o arrived within 10 minutes of my entering the police station.He told them that he had dealt with our purchasing the land and that was indeed our property they had mounted the operation on.The next day I had to meet with the district attorney who told me that the council,land registration office,chief of police and he had all met and decided that there would be no charges,but would I please consider not pressing charges myself.Being as the police budget is always negative anyway my choice was simple. So outside there is a permanent reminder to all cloaked by artistic licence.
By the way it was the lay out of the article in The Sun that has confused people as to this being perhaps the other bar in the article,you see the other is long gone so they used an unsolicited photograph of our place and stuck that in a segment of the article that leads to some confusion.
Finally to the person that suggested that I may have offered them information in return for fiscal remuneration ,it's ridiculous to imagine that any amount could compensate for the negative publicity this has caused us.Thanks for your patience if you got this far and bye.
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Thank you, Robert. You have taken a lot of trouble.
Good to get it straight from the "horses mouth"
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The no-through road is the main way for tourists etc to get to the top of the cliffs and it does match the Kate and Gerry jogging photo I have seen.
At the top end of the road, it peters out onto a large flat plateau where locals take their dogs to let them romp off the lead. Didn't you go up and park there?
I also was aware that the lights of a vehicle were reported to have been seen driving up there, towards the plateau, late on May 3rd 2007
Praia da Luz, where the road ends and the trails start on the way up the hill. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0896035,-8.7217367,3a,66.8y,330.4h,81.14t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s1qWSPzxyXOueJ3HXk70atA!2e0)
Open above link with Google Maps.
The no-through road is the main way for tourists etc to get to the top of the cliffs and it does match the Kate and Gerry jogging photo I have seen.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mXbRBcSh0gs/R1M1UuP1wNI/AAAAAAAABhA/byAQ8b96kj4/s400/Jogging001.gif) (http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tcm11.jpg) (http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/zzkgjog2007d.jpg.w180h201.jpg)
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I was quite happy with the explanation in the comments section of the newspaper article. Anyone who expects The Sun, and particularly this journalist to deliver responsible, well-researched journalism may now understand why their 'stories' can't be relied on.
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I was quite happy with the explanation in the comments section of the newspaper article. Anyone who expects The Sun, and particularly this journalist to deliver responsible, well-researched journalism may now understand why their 'stories' can't be relied on.
Tell me about it, the Press are only interested in one thing and that is how much they can get for their embroidered stories and many lies.
A big thanks to Robert for his setting the record straight. I hope this publicity is helpful, your premises look very pleasant.
ps Is the pic of the pub the right one, I think the Google images are a bit aged?
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Just to clear up a few issues regarding the news story in question.First of all the two people that visited me that day were a female journalist (who I now know to be Antonella Lazzeri) and her photographer a seemingly friendly chap from Barnsley.The two ordered a small beer and a can of Sprite and went outside on the back terrace,then repeated the order.He started chatting about football as we have a huge collection of shirts on the wall in our games room.The subject then switched to whether or not we get a lot of celebrity visitors and footballers coming in the place.I said over 22 years we had had a good many call in.Which is when she said "actually we were in a bar in Luz earlier and the barman said he once met Clement Freud in here".It turns out the barman worked for us about 20 years ago ,he later phoned up to apolgise saying it was an innocent comment and not meant to unleash the shit storm it had.
I said that Clement Freud had been in here once about 20 years ago ,the reason I remember was it was not that long after we had opened and his face was well known to most people for amongst other things the dog food adverts.I reiterated once only and told her my story about the champagne and also his friend saying"do you know who he is" to which I replied "of course ,isn't he the gentleman that did the dog food adverts".This exchange was probably a factor in his never returning again I told the two of them.
She next asked if Robert Murat had ever called in to which I responded "yes once about 8 years ago for Sunday lunch with his family" I then added that " it was shortly after he had been cleared in the Maddie case". She then volunteered the information that she was a journalist ,and that she was with The Sun.To which I sighed"oh dear" and she countered with "oh your not a Liverpool fan as well are you" ." No I'm from Sheffield and know only too well how terrible the South Yorkshire police were due to my own experiences in the 70".
Her next question was did I know Robert to which I replied "of course I do and not only because he's been a high profile person in the news over the McCann case,but also because he lived about 2 miles away when he was younger,his Aunty and uncle lived a few hundred yards away and across almost 30 years it would be quite normal that we would know who one another were.
"So how would you describe your relationship with Robert" she probed to which I replied "we are just about on nodding terms " This she then somehow twists in her story to be about Freud and Murat.
Regarding Natasha Donn she called me as we have known each other since when we first came here to live,she original miss quoted that there had been two male journalists ,so after I contacted her she rectified this.
As for the speculation about the wall mural it relates directly to a gross misunderstanding with the local police who once set up a stop operation on our lower level car park.They refused to cease it when I requested saying it was a public area ,I told them it was our land.They still refused so I took some photos hoping to show them to a lawyer ,that such a thing might not become a regular occurrence ( you can imagine trading alcohol under such conditions could be tricky).
Anyway they arrested me saying I was a danger to national security as it was illegal to take images of a police operation in progress .My missus called a lawyer wh *&*%£o arrived within 10 minutes of my entering the police station.He told them that he had dealt with our purchasing the land and that was indeed our property they had mounted the operation on.The next day I had to meet with the district attorney who told me that the council,land registration office,chief of police and he had all met and decided that there would be no charges,but would I please consider not pressing charges myself.Being as the police budget is always negative anyway my choice was simple. So outside there is a permanent reminder to all cloaked by artistic licence.
By the way it was the lay out of the article in The Sun that has confused people as to this being perhaps the other bar in the article,you see the other is long gone so they used an unsolicited photograph of our place and stuck that in a segment of the article that leads to some confusion.
Finally to the person that suggested that I may have offered them information in return for fiscal remuneration ,it's ridiculous to imagine that any amount could compensate for the negative publicity this has caused us.Thanks for your patience if you got this far and bye.
Re your final para. In the absence of full evidence, we turn to speculation based on what evidence we do have. Since you have now clarified the encounter, we now have fuller evidence of what happened, so thanks for clarifying.
I have a few questions.
The first is which bar is the one your ex-barman is working in? I am hoping this will reveal a little bit about how Antonella Lazzeri was working, something that intrigues me.
And I would appreciate knowing when Lazzeri's visit to the Pig's Head occurred, which may clarify the link to the recent Exposure programme.
Finally, are you someone who has followed the forum for a while? If not, how did you find out we were discussing the Sun article?
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The visit was last Friday .I would prefer not to name the bar where he works in case that is interpreted as sour grapes .Finally I found this forum amongst others when I typed irresponsible journalism and Clement Freud into google.The picture of the bar is current ,but the picture of me is slightly older and I don't generally sport a fez and glasses .My motivation for searching such links is to try and learn more info myself ,and in particular about Antonella Lazzeri who has not impressed me at all.
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Praia da Luz, where the road ends and the trails start on the way up the hill. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0896035,-8.7217367,3a,66.8y,330.4h,81.14t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s1qWSPzxyXOueJ3HXk70atA!2e0)
Open above link with Google Maps.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mXbRBcSh0gs/R1M1UuP1wNI/AAAAAAAABhA/byAQ8b96kj4/s400/Jogging001.gif) (http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tcm11.jpg) (http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/zzkgjog2007d.jpg.w180h201.jpg)
Those images brought back memories. Thank you John
ETA: Upon re-reading this, I see that the images of the plateaus are missing in the quote. The pictures of Kate and Gerry did not, except for the background ! ?>)()<
John the top quote, which you attributed to me, was actually Shinings words. Her input was in black and mine in maroon . You must have missed that.
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The visit was last Friday .I would prefer not to name the bar where he works in case that is interpreted as sour grapes .Finally I found this forum amongst others when I typed irresponsible journalism and Clement Freud into google.The picture of the bar is current ,but the picture of me is slightly older and I don't generally sport a fez and glasses .My motivation for searching such links is to try and learn more info myself ,and in particular about Antonella Lazzeri who has not impressed me at all.
Thanks, things are now making much more sense.
As it happens, I had not chanced across the name Antonella Lazzeri before. Perhaps others on the forum have.
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“ He came in with a friend, who asked me whether we had any champagne ... I said that we didn’t. He asked me ‘why ever not’, in a superior kind of way. I said because it might attract the wrong kind of clientele.”
A brilliantly witty riposte by the publican, well done.
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IMO CF has nothing to do with this case. Also we've been told he was not there anyway so presumably it would be a waste of time to wade through the many pages of Faro airport car rental records in the files?
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IMO CF has nothing to do with this case. Also we've been told he was not there anyway so presumably it would be a waste of time to wade through the many pages of Faro airport car rental records in the files.
Strangely this has come up on another high profile case, a potential suspect conveniently abroad. &%+((£
Also, the village of Burgau has come up previously. Remember that strange Polish couple and their hire car!
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The visit was last Friday .I would prefer not to name the bar where he works in case that is interpreted as sour grapes .Finally I found this forum amongst others when I typed irresponsible journalism and Clement Freud into google.The picture of the bar is current ,but the picture of me is slightly older and I don't generally sport a fez and glasses .My motivation for searching such links is to try and learn more info myself ,and in particular about Antonella Lazzeri who has not impressed me at all.
If you would prefer your pic removed please say. We only used it since it appears on another site promoting the pub.
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g312712-d1794750-r119892031-Pigs_Head-Burgau_Faro_District_Algarve.html
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Strangely this has come up on another high profile case, a potential suspect conveniently abroad. &%+((£
Also, the village of Burgau has come up previously. Remember that strange Polish couple and their hire car!
Also Robert Murats and the Symingtons relative, Mrs Everitt, lived there at Burgau. She was sister to Robert Murats mother.
In the early days it was mooted that she had something to do with adoption. IIRC, she found children suitable for families wanting to adopt a certain type of child.
Maybe others will remember more about this.
Unlikely that this has anything to do with Madeleine, but it should be mentioned
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CF sold the villa in 2002, but afterwards sometimes rented it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3643373/PICTURED-sinister-holiday-villa-paedophile-MP-Clement-Freud-hosted-McCanns-weeks-Madeleine-vanished.html
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(snip) ... his friend saying"do you know who he is" to which I replied "of course ,isn't he the gentleman that did the dog food adverts". This exchange was probably a factor in his never returning again ... (snip)
Brilliant.
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The visit was last Friday .I would prefer not to name the bar where he works in case that is interpreted as sour grapes .Finally I found this forum amongst others when I typed irresponsible journalism and Clement Freud into google.The picture of the bar is current ,but the picture of me is slightly older and I don't generally sport a fez and glasses .My motivation for searching such links is to try and learn more info myself ,and in particular about Antonella Lazzeri who has not impressed me at all.
She hasnt impressed anyone, she writes crap mostly, a very sad so called journalist
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Also Robert Murats and the Symingtons relative, Mrs Everitt, lived there at Burgau. She was sister to Robert Murats mother.
In the early days it was mooted that she had something to do with adoption. IIRC, she found children suitable for families wanting to adopt a certain type of child.
Maybe others will remember more about this.
Unlikely that this has anything to do with Madeleine, but it should be mentioned
So why mention it??
Make your mind up sadie, madeleine was taken by paedos or an illegal adoption agency and or sold or given to an elite man who loves dressing up, is it dame edna everage?
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Those images brought back memories. Thank you John
ETA: Upon re-reading this, I see that the images of the plateaus are missing in the quote. The pictures of Kate and Gerry did not, except for the background ! ?>)()<
John the top quote, which you attributed to me, was actually Shinings words. Her input was in black and mine in maroon . You must have missed that.
Sorry Sadie, my mistake, I should have checked it but its been a long 36 hours. I have corrected the quote header.
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IMO CF is irrelevant, but re the claim he was not there, has anyone checked the Faro car rental records for 3rd, for stage names?
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So in reality, there is no link between Madeleine's disappearance and Freud.
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So in reality, there is no link between Madeleine's disappearance and Freud.
We don't know would be correct
As there is no evidence either way by your logic it is 50/50
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Please remember that the McCanns are innocent every time you post. Unlike anyone associated with Sir Clement Freud or his villa in Luz ... the McCanns have been subject to police investigation to the nth degree and cleared by the Portuguese AG.
Minor quibble.
The Portuguese prosecutors could find no basis of accusation against the McCanns, which is why their agruido status was dropped.
The Portuguese Attorney General affirmed the correctness of that judgement.
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Sorry Sadie, my mistake, I should have checked it but its been a long 36 hours. I have corrected the quote header.
Thanks John 8((()*/
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659322/Police-launch-probe-Freud-knew-Maddie-uncover-new-details-ex-MP-s-disturbing-relationship-McCanns.html
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So why mention it??
Make your mind up sadie, madeleine was taken by paedos or an illegal adoption agency and or sold or given to an elite man who loves dressing up, is it dame edna everage?
I have accused no one of anything. Where have I mentioned an illegal Adoption Agency either? Get your facts straight mercury.
Do not put untrue words in my mouth.
To Clarify: I am almost 100% sure that Madeleine was taken by a group commissioned by an elite paedo. I don't believe she has been sold, but that might have been the original reason for taking her ... to sell on to a person who particularly wanted her.
My suspect does appear to like dressing up. I believe that I have 3 instances of it.
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I have accused no one of anything. Where have I mentioned an illegal Adoption Agency either? Get your facts straight mercury.
Do not put untrue words in my mouth.
To Clarify: I am almost 100% sure that Madeleine was taken by a group commissioned by an elite paedo. I don't believe she has been sold, but that might have been the original reason for taking her ... to sell on to a person who particularly wanted her.
My suspect does appear to like dressing up. I believe that I have 3 instances of it.
Why did you post this? If not to cast aspersions? ie why should it be mentioned? as you say
Quote
Also Robert Murats and the Symingtons relative, Mrs Everitt, lived there at Burgau. She was sister to Robert Murats mother.
In the early days it was mooted that she had something to do with adoption. IIRC, she found children suitable for families wanting to adopt a certain type of child.
Maybe others will remember more about this.
Unlikely that this has anything to do with Madeleine, but it should be mentioned
Unuote
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"Clay" Freud had one drink then left, because he was pissed off about the Meaty Chunks advert. Everyone was asking where Henry was. Presumably, he toddled off to fiddle with a vulnerable 14 year old, while his wife looked the other way.
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"his son Matthew Freud said his father had been in the UK on the night Madeleine vanished"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3642312/Kate-Gerry-McCann-horrified-Clement-Freud-child-abuse-claims-emerged-home-Praia-da-Luz-befriended-Madeleine-vanished.html
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"his son Matthew Freud said his father had been in the UK on the night Madeleine vanished"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3642312/Kate-Gerry-McCann-horrified-Clement-Freud-child-abuse-claims-emerged-home-Praia-da-Luz-befriended-Madeleine-vanished.html
It would have been much better journalism to have tried to establish if anyone was actually staying in the ex-Freud villa at the relevant time.
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Madeleine's abductor was fleet-of-foot.
Clement Freud certainly wasn't ...
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Op Grange contacted the villa owner about 2 years ago.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659322/Police-launch-probe-Freud-knew-Maddie-uncover-new-details-ex-MP-s-disturbing-relationship-McCanns.html
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I have removed the inappropriate inference that CF abducted Madeleine. He was 83 in 2007 for heavens sake.
Bloodhounds make excellent scent dogs.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/12/article-1319616-0B92D756000005DC-681_468x335.jpg)
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I have removed the inappropriate inference that CF abducted Madeleine. He was 83 in 2007 for heavens sake.
Bloodhounds make excellent scent dogs.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/12/article-1319616-0B92D756000005DC-681_468x335.jpg)
I'm not quite sure what you actually did or what you considered was inappropriate, therefore I am in no position to comment on your actions.
Perhaps because I also write a blog I take a somewhat different approach on such situations. I happen to prefer putting the idea under the microscope to examine what stacks up and what doesn't.
That is, I have no issue with an alleged serial paedophile being connected with Luz. If Sir Clement did the things he is alleged to have done, he deserves to have the true story told.
The connection to Madeleine should also be scrutinised. Thus far, it appears to amount to an invite to the parents for one lunch and one evening drink. While OG may or may not have investigated.
Mr Hurst has clarified how the Pig's Head story came about, and I'm grateful for the insight.
Things get simpler the more information we have.
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I am surprised the conspiracists among us haven't suggested the reason why Clement invited the McCanns to his villa was to introduce DNA contaminants associated with Madeleine thereby confusing any potential forensic investigation.
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I am surprised the conspiracists among us haven't suggested the reason why Clement invited the McCanns to his villa was to introduce DNA contaminants associated with Madeleine thereby confusing any potential forensic investigation.
Oh yes. I expect his dodgy associates were busy in the car boot while the McCanns enjoyed lunch. Did he ask to hold cuddle cat I wonder?
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Oh yes. I expect his dodgy associates were busy in the car boot while the McCanns enjoyed lunch. Did he ask to hold cuddle cat I wonder?
Were there any associates, dodgy or otherwise? Have any been mentioned? We appear to have a neighbour who says that Freud did not mingle. A newspaper reporter seems to have tracked down a single visit to a pub, in some 20 years. I have not chanced across anything that implies his holiday visits were with other people, and Kate's book makes no mention of anyone in Casa da Colina other than Sir Clement.
Basically, I have little idea what he saw in Luz before he sold the villa, and less about why he then chose to holiday here.
Any ideas?
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Were there any associates, dodgy or otherwise? Have any been mentioned? We appear to have a neighbour who says that Freud did not mingle. A newspaper reporter seems to have tracked down a single visit to a pub, in some 20 years. I have not chanced across anything that implies his holiday visits were with other people, and Kate's book makes no mention of anyone in Casa da Colina other than Sir Clement.
Basically, I have little idea what he saw in Luz before he sold the villa, and less about why he then chose to holiday here.
Any ideas?
As I said before, a good journalist would have investigated those issues. To me, Freud was not the primary subject matter.
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OG spoke with the owner about 2 yrs ago so presumably OG must have asked who rented it on the 3rd?
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OG spoke with the owner about 2 yrs ago so presumably OG must have asked who rented it on the 3rd?
I don't believe OG would have divulged any information to the press. Locals would have known who was there that night, if anyone.
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I am surprised the conspiracists among us haven't suggested the reason why Clement invited the McCanns to his villa was to introduce DNA contaminants associated with Madeleine thereby confusing any potential forensic investigation.
Or that the T9 only went to PdL because he was there...
Don't give the [ censored word ]s more ideas, John.
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Were there any associates, dodgy or otherwise? Have any been mentioned? We appear to have a neighbour who says that Freud did not mingle. A newspaper reporter seems to have tracked down a single visit to a pub, in some 20 years. I have not chanced across anything that implies his holiday visits were with other people, and Kate's book makes no mention of anyone in Casa da Colina other than Sir Clement.
Basically, I have little idea what he saw in Luz before he sold the villa, and less about why he then chose to holiday here.
Any ideas?
Perhaps it was his private getaway for peace and quiet, maybe he holidayed once and loved it and bought a place there, how can anyone know why anyone else likes a place
I suppose the next step might be he could be the stranger going into villas all over the algarve over the years molesting children
Tenuous as tenuous can be
Didnt Cliff Richard have a villa there too? What did he like about the place? He has been accused and cleared of sexual allegations, Freud is dead so cant defend himself, but if its true he groomed an 11 yr old and raped her when she was 18 its a million miles away from abducting a three yr old at the age of 83!!! Poppycock IMO The Mccanns SY or the media or someone mght be looking for a patsy to put it all to bed. Its sounds pathetic, it seems pathetic and probably 99% is
If one were cyncal enough these two people have been accused of crimes just for having residences in PDL
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I'm not quite sure what you actually did or what you considered was inappropriate, therefore I am in no position to comment on your actions.
Perhaps because I also write a blog I take a somewhat different approach on such situations. I happen to prefer putting the idea under the microscope to examine what stacks up and what doesn't.
That is, I have no issue with an alleged serial paedophile being connected with Luz. If Sir Clement did the things he is alleged to have done, he deserves to have the true story told.
The connection to Madeleine should also be scrutinised. Thus far, it appears to amount to an invite to the parents for one lunch and one evening drink. While OG may or may not have investigated.
Mr Hurst has clarified how the Pig's Head story came about, and I'm grateful for the insight.
Things get simpler the more information we have.
8@??)(
The more background info we have the better. I agree
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8@??)(
The more background info we have the better. I agree
Only if you put it together properly and logically and without wanton speculation if its the FACTS youre after
I agree
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Perhaps it was his private getaway for peace and quiet, maybe he holidayed once and loved it and bought a place there, how can anyone know why anyone else likes a place
I suppose the next step might be he could be the stranger going into villas all over the algarve over the years molesting children
Tenuous as tenuous can be
Didnt Cliff Richard have a villa there too? What did he like about the place? He has been accused and cleared of sexual allegations, Freud is dead so cant defend himself, but if its true he groomed an 11 yr old and raped her when she was 18 its a million miles away from abducting a three yr old at the age of 83!!! Poppycock IMO The Mccanns SY or the media or someone mght be looking for a patsy to put it all to bed. Its sounds pathetic, it seems pathetic and probably 99% is
If one were cyncal enough these two people have been accused of crimes just for having residences in PDL
I believe Sir Cliff has a villa and vineyard somewhere on the Algarve, but he has no connections to Luz.
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I believe Sir Cliff has a villa and vineyard somewhere on the Algarve, but he has no connections to Luz.
Since 1993 he had a villa and vineyard at Quinta do Moinho (Windmill Farm), a sprawling whitewashed estate in the Algarve, sitting on top of a hill near Guia, Albufeira, it was put on the market in April this year, don't know if he sold it.
Google maps. https://goo.gl/maps/AzrEiwAw3mq
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03015/cliff_3015319b.jpg)
http://portugalresident.com/albufeira’s-famous-adega-do-cantor-winery-up-for-sale
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I believe Sir Cliff has a villa and vineyard somewhere on the Algarve, but he has no connections to Luz.
He has a direct link to a charity shop on Rua Direta.
http://portugalresident.com/sir-cliff-gives-patronage%C2%A0%C2%A0to-algarve-charity
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Sir Cliff has zero connections to Madeleine.
Poor chap has just emerged from a series of allegations (with zero credibility) against his name.
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I think they would be interested in WHY Clement wanted to help the McCanns. At the start of July when he wrote that letter the McCanns were not suspects. Also that same month the car boot is reported to be open at their villa. The media backlash started in August after the dog searches.
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Sir Cliff has zero connections to Madeleine.
Poor chap has just emerged from a series of allegations (with zero credibility) against his name.
I agree, Ferryman.
Many of the elder generation have some sort of link to the Algarve & maybe Praia da Luz, even Sir Paul McCartney.
Freud was into horseracing - perhaps he was linked to the theft of Shergar in some small way too.
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He has a direct link to a charity shop on Rua Direta.
http://portugalresident.com/sir-cliff-gives-patronage%C2%A0%C2%A0to-algarve-charity
Sorry, but I would count being patron of a charity and said charity having a shop in Luz as indirect.
Otherwise, through the everyone-is-connected-to-everyone chain, the entire UK would be directly linked to Luz.
Mind you, just as well this happened after Madeleine disappeared, or no doubt some journalists would be writing up the connection.
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I think they would be interested in WHY Clement wanted to help the McCanns. At the start of July when he wrote that letter the McCanns were not suspects. Also that same month the car boot is reported to be open at their villa. The media backlash started in August after the dog searches.
Given that Freud was dead, the obvious way to find out why was to go to the 5 adults who went to lunch first time round, and presumably just the McCanns for drinks, when they had been made arguidos.
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Given that Freud was dead, the obvious way to find out why was to go to the 5 adults who went to lunch first time round, and presumably just the McCanns for drinks, when they had been made arguidos.
Before they were formally made arguidos; 3rd September. It was the day they were told by Ricardo Paiva that they were going to be questioned as arguidos.
They cancelled an interview with Paris Match and dinner with Freud. They made frantic phone calls, had dinner and settled the children in bed. At 9.50pm Kate rang Freud and he invited them round. She said it was comforting, a bit like going to see your Grandad after a horrible day at school.
Kate seems to have had a relatively untroubled life so far if the worst she could think of was a horrible day at school. Is that really up there with being suspected of having a hand in your daughter's disappearance?
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Before they were formally made arguidos; 3rd September. It was the day they were told by Ricardo Paiva that they were going to be questioned as arguidos.
They cancelled an interview with Paris Match and dinner with Freud. They made frantic phone calls, had dinner and settled the children in bed. At 9.50pm Kate rang Freud and he invited them round. She said it was comforting, a bit like going to see your Grandad after a horrible day at school.
Kate seems to have had a relatively untroubled life so far if the worst she could think of was a horrible day at school. Is that really up there with being suspected of having a hand in your daughter's disappearance?
She probably thought what a ridiculously stupid idea it was
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Before they were formally made arguidos; 3rd September. It was the day they were told by Ricardo Paiva that they were going to be questioned as arguidos.
They cancelled an interview with Paris Match and dinner with Freud. They made frantic phone calls, had dinner and settled the children in bed. At 9.50pm Kate rang Freud and he invited them round. She said it was comforting, a bit like going to see your Grandad after a horrible day at school.
Kate seems to have had a relatively untroubled life so far if the worst she could think of was a horrible day at school. Is that really up there with being suspected of having a hand in your daughter's disappearance?
Not trying to be picky, but have you got your date right?
That sounds like the day before they actually were made arguidos. I thought the second Freud visit was on the day they had been made arguidos, and they discussed the dog alerts.
Arrrrgh!!!! When did the dog alerts get published? Were they leaked before arguido day?
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Not trying to be picky, but have you got your date right?
That sounds like the day before they actually were made arguidos. I thought the second Freud visit was on the day they had been made arguidos, and they discussed the dog alerts.
Arrrrgh!!!! When did the dog alerts get published? Were they leaked before arguido day?
I woke on the morning of Monday 3 September with puffier ones. There was a phone call from Ricardo. He would be coming over later.....At 4.30pm Ricardo arrived with a female colleague.......He clarified with us the date of our planned departure back to the UK and told us that the PJ wanted to ‘interrogate’ me on Wednesday and Gerry on Thursday......We were not going to be questioned as witnesses, Ricardo finally admitted. ‘So what will our status be, then?’ Gerry pressed him. ‘It’s called arguido.’ .......At 9.50pm, I rang Clement. ‘Come on round,’ he said......When he heard about the dogs, he remarked laconically, ‘So what are they going to do? Put them on the stand? One bark for yes, two for no?
Kate McCann Madeleine
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I woke on the morning of Monday 3 September with puffier ones. There was a phone call from Ricardo. He would be coming over later.....At 4.30pm Ricardo arrived with a female colleague.......He clarified with us the date of our planned departure back to the UK and told us that the PJ wanted to ‘interrogate’ me on Wednesday and Gerry on Thursday......We were not going to be questioned as witnesses, Ricardo finally admitted. ‘So what will our status be, then?’ Gerry pressed him. ‘It’s called arguido.’ .......At 9.50pm, I rang Clement. ‘Come on round,’ he said......When he heard about the dogs, he remarked laconically, ‘So what are they going to do? Put them on the stand? One bark for yes, two for no?
Kate McCann Madeleine
One bark for yes
Two for no
That is funny
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One bark for yes
Two for no
That is funny
But only if you have a sense of humour ...
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But only if you have a sense of humour ...
Dead funny when a dog trained to detect the smell of cadavers alerted to the place you last saw your missing daughter. I would have been in fits of laughter, me.
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Dead funny when a dog trained to detect the smell of cadavers alerted to the place you last saw your missing daughter. I would have been in fits of laughter, me.
That's because you don't understand the alerts
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Dead funny when a dog trained to detect the smell of cadavers alerted to the place you last saw your missing daughter. I would have been in fits of laughter, me.
Quite
At first at least before Gerrys so called research there just must have been shock, no reason to disbelieve that it was possible an intruder killed the child, instead it was, derision, well, according to KMs book, so "unscientific" ...not as "scientific" as KM telling police to investigate a friend of hers' psychic vision as it was very important, got to laugh
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Eddie, Keela and Henry....... &%+((£
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That's because you don't understand the alerts
I know enough to know I wouldn't have been laughing at childish jokes about them.
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I know enough to know I wouldn't have been laughing at childish jokes about them.
It isn't a childish joke
It showed a lot of insight
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I know enough to know I wouldn't have been laughing at childish jokes about them.
You like to talk about evidence
Where is the independent scientific evidence to support the alerts
There is none
Absolutely none
Why
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You like to talk about evidence
Where is the independent scientific evidence to support the alerts
There is none
Absolutely none
Why
You are speaking with hindsight. Freud and the McCanns had no idea what the forensic tests had found. Whatever it was, it led to the PJ deciding to interview them as arguidos. At that moment it was not something to make facetious remarks about. Unless, of course, they knew what the results of the forensic tests were. Whatever the reason their lack of concern is surprising. For all they knew their daughter was dead.
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You are speaking with hindsight. Freud and the McCanns had no idea what the forensic tests had found. Whatever it was, it led to the PJ deciding to interview them as arguidos. At that moment it was not something to make facetious remarks about. Unless, of course, they knew what the results of the forensic tests were. Whatever the reason their lack of concern is surprising. For all they knew their daughter was dead.
Every action is surprising or odd ... To you
You are trying to make the facts fit your agenda
It was Freud who made the remark
He was absolutely right
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freud was right about what?
Its up to police and judiciary to decide on anythng and everything not him or the mccanns, neither of them have any say
And thats a fact lol
the mccanns thought they were running everythng from day one, those days are long gone and should never ever have been allowed to carry on as long as they were, that was a major failure of the PT and UK police
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You are speaking with hindsight. Freud and the McCanns had no idea what the forensic tests had found. Whatever it was, it led to the PJ deciding to interview them as arguidos. At that moment it was not something to make facetious remarks about. Unless, of course, they knew what the results of the forensic tests were. Whatever the reason their lack of concern is surprising. For all they knew their daughter was dead.
Who made a facetious remark?
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Who made a facetious remark?
Kate and gerry mccann, do keep up , the very fact they did should prove to you what a stupid persons they are
As are all their connections that print pathetic stories ad infintum forever and a day about absolute crap
There should be a law against it
There really should
We cant have suspects on the loose making stuff up and supported by the british govt lolol
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Given that Freud was dead, the obvious way to find out why was to go to the 5 adults who went to lunch first time round, and presumably just the McCanns for drinks, when they had been made arguidos.
I would be investigating phone calls the McCanns made to Clement Freud in July after this first meeting. How frequent were the contacts.
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I would be investigating phone calls the McCanns made to Clement Freud in July after this first meeting. How frequent were the contacts.
What would you hope to glean from that?
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What would you hope to glean from that?
Whether to send in the dogs for further investigation.
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Whether to send in the dogs for further investigation.
Send the dogs where? Clement Freud's gaffe?
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Bit late in the day, I would have thought.
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Bit late in the day, I would have thought.
You never know
The dogs in the zapata case alerted years and years later then again i suppose if remains remain a long time and stench a place out they would do
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You should know how unreliable these dogs are - we've been told often enough by those who think they know.
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Please stay on topic. Thank you
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Maybe he takes Fido out for a walk now and again.
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Maybe he takes Fido out for a walk now and again.
Do you not think Pluto may have been more apposite ?
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C.F. doesn't occur on any of the 223 pages of car rental lists, however ...
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C.F. doesn't occur on any of the 223 pages of car rental lists, however ...
May I ask what date range the car rental lists cover?
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May I ask what date range the car rental lists cover?
The aim was IMO to identify every car rental which included the day 3rd May or the day 4th May 2007.
Lists were obtained from every car rental company located at Faro airport or in the PDL area.
The lists are huge - about 243 pages.
Source: Outros Apensos 8, pages 54-277
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The aim was IMO to identify every car rental which included the day 3rd May or the day 4th May 2007.
Lists were obtained from every car rental company located at Faro airport or in the PDL area.
The lists are huge - about 243 pages.
Source: Outros Apensos 8, pages 54-277
Maybe he kept a car there and took a taxi from the airport ... or relied on a friend to transport him to and from the airport ? A reciprocal agreement ?
If I had a place like his, especially well up a steep hill, I would want a car there. Any old car that I had finished with at home would suffice. Feud could afford something much better, I would think
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The aim was IMO to identify every car rental which included the day 3rd May or the day 4th May 2007.
Lists were obtained from every car rental company located at Faro airport or in the PDL area.
The lists are huge - about 243 pages.
Source: Outros Apensos 8, pages 54-277
Many thanks.
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Maybe he kept a car there and took a taxi from the airport ... or relied on a friend to transport him to and from the airport ? A reciprocal agreement ?
If I had a place like his, especially well up a steep hill, I would want a car there. Any old car that I had finished with at home would suffice. Feud could afford something much better, I would think
It wasn't his villa in 2007. He sold it in 2002.
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It wasn't his villa in 2007. He sold it in 2002.
Correct, however sometimes rented it after that, for example for at least 2 periods in 2007.
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Correct, however sometimes rented it after that, for example for at least 2 periods in 2007.
Agreed, but the premise was, did he keep a car there? Was he keeping a car at his old villa about 5 years after he sold it?
What do you think?
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Agreed, but the premise was, did he keep a car there? Was he keeping a car at his old villa about 5 years after he sold it?
What do you think?
IMO no car would be kept in portugal. Renting a car would be much more sensible.
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Agreed, but the premise was, did he keep a car there? Was he keeping a car at his old villa about 5 years after he sold it?
What do you think?
Do you know, did the villa rent with a car?
Had he a friend with a car who was willing to run him around a bit?
We know that he was there soon after Madeleine vanished. I feel sure that a man of his age and wealth wouldn't carry his shopping up that steep incline.
Maybe he always called a taxi ?
There are so many options that we really are in the dark about this imo
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IMO no car would be kept in portugal. Renting a car would be much more sensible.
May have had an employee/chauffeur, in any case, I fail to see how he could be linked to MMs abduction, tenuous in the utter extreme IMHO, except for desperate or irresponsible joirnalists
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Do you know, did the villa rent with a car?
Had he a friend with a car who was willing to run him around a bit?
We know that he was there soon after Madeleine vanished. I feel sure that a man of his age and wealth wouldn't carry his shopping up that steep incline.
Maybe he always called a taxi ?
There are so many options that we really are in the dark about this imo
Without wishing to sound ageist, he was what, 83 at the time of the meeting? I doubt he flew to Faro, rented a car, then drove himself to Luz.
Car insurance in Portugal is odd. It is the car that is insured, not the driver. If the villa owner had a car there, and consented to Freud using it, then assuming Freud was legal to drive in the UK he was legal to use the villa car in Portugal.
But why would he? Baptista delivered to his door. Chicken and mushroom risotto is hardly pushing the envelope.
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Do you know, did the villa rent with a car? ... (snip)
Some villa rental agents do, on request, also arrange car rental.
For example some entries in the car rental lists have a PDL villa rental agent in one column, and the first-named-driver in another column. Further drivers eg spouse are not listed.
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Without wishing to sound ageist, he was what, 83 at the time of the meeting? I doubt he flew to Faro, rented a car, then drove himself to Luz.
Car insurance in Portugal is odd. It is the car that is insured, not the driver. If the villa owner had a car there, and consented to Freud using it, then assuming Freud was legal to drive in the UK he was legal to use the villa car in Portugal.
But why would he? Baptista delivered to his door. Chicken and mushroom risotto is hardly pushing the envelope.
My hubbie is 81 in a few days time. Last month we were in Toronto and my hubby was driving around in a wretched giant American limousine on the roads around Toronto. These are not quiet PdL / western Algarve roads, they are city roads. He had driven the same car in Fla only 15 months before, which helped. The Panhandle was much quieter than Toronto. He didn't fancy doing it, but needs must .... and he drove
Another member of the family until the age of about 83 used to drive down to Richmond, Virginia. .... all the way from London Ontario. I would guess that is over 500 miles. She is now 86 and drives occasionally from London Ont to Toronto, about 100miles.
I don't think that we can be certain that Freud, an international man, would not be able to manage driving the easy route from Faro airport to PdL. He might even have flown it by light aircraft to the little air strip in nearby Lagos. Celebs do these sort of things .... but I know that I am only speculating
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May have had an employee/chauffeur, in any case, I fail to see how he could be linked to MMs abduction, tenuous in the utter extreme IMHO, except for desperate or irresponsible joirnalists
There may be some connection if CF was a peadophile,and M was a victim of his or others who indulged in this kind of activity it would be worth while exploring...interesting he became 'friends' with the MCs.
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Gerry's bedtime reading in Portugal which featured Clement's grandfather.
"Sigmund Freud arrives in New York on his first – and only – visit to the United States in 1909..................
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SV_SPxKf0RI/AAAAAAAADCw/WF_C13pUoXU/s400/iom.jpg)
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Without wishing to sound ageist, he was what, 83 at the time of the meeting? I doubt he flew to Faro, rented a car, then drove himself to Luz.
Car insurance in Portugal is odd. It is the car that is insured, not the driver. If the villa owner had a car there, and consented to Freud using it, then assuming Freud was legal to drive in the UK he was legal to use the villa car in Portugal.
But why would he? Baptista delivered to his door. Chicken and mushroom risotto is hardly pushing the envelope.
"More than 1 million drivers on Britain’s roads are aged over 80 according to the latest official figures" Source: Telegraph
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IMO it is extremely unlikely, even if was in PT then, that it would have any relevance at all. The profile does not fit and I don't see how it could be relevant. However just mentioning that in the 200+ pages of many thousands of airport car rental records there is one listing which, only in that it possibly resembles a connected name, might theoretically be of hypothetical interest.
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Gerry's bedtime reading in Portugal which featured Clement's grandfather.
"Sigmund Freud arrives in New York on his first – and only – visit to the United States in 1909..................
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SV_SPxKf0RI/AAAAAAAADCw/WF_C13pUoXU/s400/iom.jpg)
And? That book was a very popular read in 2007.
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And? That book was a very popular read in 2007.
Was it really? Have you got sales figures to support that statement?
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And? That book was a very popular read in 2007.
Your child is missing and possibly murdered so yes it's a strange book title to be reading - "The Interpretation of Murder".
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Your child is missing and possibly murdered so yes it's a strange book title to be reading - "The Interpretation of Murder".
The Interpretation of Murder has nothing at all to do with a child being abducted and murdered. It was one of Richard and Judy's book clubs choices for a good read back in 2007 -
Book Club 2007
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie - Half of a Yellow Sun
William Boyd - Restless
A.M. Homes - This Book Will Save Your Life
Lori Lansens - The Girls
James Robertson - The Testament of Gideon Mack
Griff Rhys Jones - Semi-detached
Jed Rubenfeld - The Interpretation of Murder (winner)
Catherine Ryan Hyde - Love in the Present Tense
Just a book Gerry took on holiday.
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The Interpretation of Murder has nothing at all to do with a child being abducted and murdered. It was one of Richard and Judy's book clubs choices for a good read back in 2007 -
Book Club 2007
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie - Half of a Yellow Sun
William Boyd - Restless
A.M. Homes - This Book Will Save Your Life
Lori Lansens - The Girls
James Robertson - The Testament of Gideon Mack
Griff Rhys Jones - Semi-detached
Jed Rubenfeld - The Interpretation of Murder (winner)
Catherine Ryan Hyde - Love in the Present Tense
Just a book Gerry took on holiday.
Have you got any proof that he brought that book to PDL? Police searches/photos of 5A didn't feature that book. And police would be interested in a book with that title in a suspicious missing child case.
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Have you got any proof that he brought that book to PDL? Police searches/photos of 5A didn't feature that book. And police would be interested in a book with that title in a suspicious missing child case.
I have no idea if he took the book to PDL or whether he bought it there as a holiday read. Why would the police be interested in that book the title has nothing to do with a missing child, it was just a popular read in 2007. You are really trying to make something out of nothing.
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I have no idea if he took the book to PDL or whether he bought it there as a holiday read. Why would the police be interested in that book the title has nothing to do with a missing child, it was just a popular read in 2007. You are really trying to make something out of nothing.
Or maybe Clement gave him it but maybe don't cut it. That book is a link to Clement Freud featuring his grandfather re thread title.
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I have no idea if he took the book to PDL or whether he bought it there as a holiday read. Why would the police be interested in that book the title has nothing to do with a missing child, it was just a popular read in 2007. You are really trying to make something out of nothing.
Isn't this whole thread something out of nothing ?
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Was it really? Have you got sales figures to support that statement?
The 14 R&J choices that feature in the chart account for 22%, or £25.4m, of revenue in the Hot 100, based on BookScan’s Total Consumer Market data.</p>
<p>Industry cynics have claimed that the book battle in 2007 was little more than a duel between J K Rowling and R&J producer Amanda Ross. Indeed, sales of <i>Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows</i> (worth £36.5m) and sales of all editions of all 16 R&J picks (worth £26.8m) combined to take 3.5%, or £63.3m, of total sales in 2007.<br />
<br />
<b>The interpretation of data</b></p>
<p>It is R&J’s Book of the Year that sits atop the 2007 paperback bestseller chart. Jed Rubenfeld’s <i>The Interpretation of Murder</i> (Headline) clinches the top spot in a repeat of last year, when the show’s chosen Book of the Year, <i>Labyrinth</i> by Kate Mosse, came out on top. Rubenfeld’s total sales figure is 45,000 copies short of the lofty height gained by Mosse in 2006. The 2005 winner, <i>Cloud Atlas</i> by David Mitchell, sold fewer than 300,000 copies in its mass market edition.</p>
http://www.thebookseller.com/feature/review-2007-paperbacks-ride-high
It would appear to have sold reasonably well in 2007 and would probably have made for good holiday reading. Why possession of it should be the cause for any suspicion is way beyond me.
However the fact that the senior investigating officer found difficulty in differentiating between top secret police pamphlets unavailable to the general public and a conference handout is indicative of the sort of rubbish he circulated at the time.
Not even the Bible was exempt from wild speculation ... the 'highly suspicious' marked reading belonged not to Kate but to the mother who had lent the Bible to comfort her.
Such is the power of anti McCann baseless propaganda that the innuendo and insinuation persists to raise its head using the title of a best selling book. Seamlessly progressing into 'questions' in some quarters (not this forum) about police interest in communication between Sir Clement Freud and Madeleine's parents.
The pity of which is that the universally accepted damning accusations were made only after the death of Clement Freud when he was way beyond defending himself or being accountable for his activities, contacts or correspondence.
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Isn't this whole thread something out of nothing ?
Sigh ... looks very like it Stephen, but you must admit we are very good at doing that.
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If the book had been called "101 Ways To Dispose of a Corpse" then it might have had some significance otherwise....? &%+((£
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IMO it is extremely unlikely, even if was in PT then, that it would have any relevance at all. The profile does not fit and I don't see how it could be relevant. However just mentioning that in the 200+ pages of many thousands of airport car rental records there is one listing which, only in that it possibly resembles a connected name, might theoretically be of hypothetical interest.
Are you referring to one particular name on page 144?
I take my hat off to you, Pegasus.
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Are you referring to one particular name on page 144?
I take my hat off to you, Pegasus.
and continues onto 145 Misty
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and continues onto 145 Misty
I'm struggling on page 145, unless it's Schm---.
Last one on 144 is possibly of interest in light of destination.
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7th on 145 for make and model Misty.
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7th on 145 for make and model Misty.
Yes, it does help to look at the correct page!! I had already seen the vehicle details.
Too much of a coincidence if you factor in the date & the known associates of the other woman named? (although not necessarily implicating CF).
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What relevance is Jill Freud and her friend (apparently an art historian?) and renault clio?
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What relevance is Jill Freud and her friend (apparently an art historian?) and renault clio?
Col 5 in this line is simply the property rental agent, who also booked car rental for the customer.
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It helps to read the column headings. Col 5 = "Entitade principal". Col 6 = "Condutor principal".
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It helps to read the column headings. Col 5 = "Entitade principal". Col 6 = "Condutor principal".
Cant you just tell me?
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Col 5 in this line is simply the property rental agent, who also booked car rental for the customer.
OK, different JL (long term resident & ex-property management in PdL, looks close to Freud villa on map).
Weird coincidence in name association all the same.
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Cant you just tell me?
Column headers on p128 for this car rental company, Mercury.
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There must be hundreds of places with thu changeover?
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There must be hundreds of places with thu changeover?
Not sure what you mean, Pegasus.
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Or maybe Clement gave him it but maybe don't cut it. That book is a link to Clement Freud featuring his grandfather re thread title.
He may have got it signed by CF... Oh the what If's ... I just wonder if the parents mentioned to CF they suspected paedopile gang of kidknapping their daughter, and what CF's reaction to that would have been...in fact it would be interesting to find out what cosy chats they had with dear ole clems.
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Not sure what you mean, Pegasus.
Many holiday rentals have a rigid changeover/turnaround day, for example a cottage in Wales might advertise that it can be rented only Sat to Sat.
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Column headers on p128 for this car rental company, Mercury.
Thanks Misty,but no worries, I just dont understand what the conversation is all about
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Whoops!
owned by the senior Freud, and the McCann family had enjoyed dinner at that same villa with Sir Clement on at least one occasion not long before she went missing.
http://everything-pr.com/carrie-byalick-portland-communications-freud-pr-walker-sands-freud/82526/
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@)(++(* Cue a letter from Carter Ruck about that.
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Whoops!
owned by the senior Freud, and the McCann family had enjoyed dinner at that same villa with Sir Clement on at least one occasion not long before she went missing.
http://everything-pr.com/carrie-byalick-portland-communications-freud-pr-walker-sands-freud/82526/
Whoops yes obviously a typo where some lazy person at that site typed "before" instead of "after".
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Which country was he in on 3 May?
The only source in the UK press is the Mail:
"... he told a Mail reporter his father had been in Britain on May 3, 2007 ..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659322/Police-launch-probe-Freud-knew-Maddie-uncover-new-details-ex-MP-s-disturbing-relationship-McCanns.html
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Which country was he in on 3 May?
The only source in the UK press is the Mail:
"... he told a Mail reporter his father had been in Britain on May 3, 2007 ..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659322/Police-launch-probe-Freud-knew-Maddie-uncover-new-details-ex-MP-s-disturbing-relationship-McCanns.html
Probably true- but BA run 3 flights a day out of Gatwick in May, duration 2hrs 40mins.
Marleybone home in the morning, Luz by nightfall.
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Probably true- but BA run 3 flights a day out of Gatwick in May, duration 2hrs 40mins.
Marleybone home in the morning, Luz by nightfall.
MIsty!!
Do you think an 83 yr old man who raped alledgedly an 18 yr old decades ago albeit alledgedly grooming her for a few years would be interested in a three yr old child? In 2007 fgs
Dont you think this is a desperate "lead"? Not that it is one at all.
It is normally ALWAYS the family or friend of (but not an octanagerian)
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MIsty!!
Do you thnk an 83 yr old man who raped alledgedly an 18 yr old albeit alledgedly grooming her for a few years would be interested in a three yr old child? Fgs
I'm not saying that at all, Mercury. No doubt SY will know if he was in the country or not.
But I've read there is a motto on the Algarve - "anything goes" - and who knows what sort of "parties" are hosted by the Elite in their holiday retreats.
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(snip) ... BA run 3 flights a day out of Gatwick in May ...(snip)
On 3 May 2007 there were 16 direct flights from London (LGW/LHR/LTN/STN) to Faro.
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On 3 May 2007 there were 16 direct flights from London (LGW/LHR/LTN/STN) to Faro.
Interesting as this may be, what is the connection?
Even if Freud had jetted out to Faro, then up to Luz, the question would be why? As pointed out, it doesn't fit his MO.
There is also the issue of renting the villa at the drop of a hat.
And the issue of Freud knowing about the existence of Madeleine within Luz. This requires some sort of collaboration from A N Other.
Perhaps his personal circumstances were that he could jet off outside the UK without his wife or family knowing, though that strikes me as a bit tenuous.
At the minimum, it looks like a conspiracy of three would be required in this scenario - Freud, the owner of the villa, and whoever snatched Madeleine, and it is complex beyond belief.
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Which country was he in on 3 May?
The only source in the UK press is the Mail:
"... he told a Mail reporter his father had been in Britain on May 3, 2007 ..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659322/Police-launch-probe-Freud-knew-Maddie-uncover-new-details-ex-MP-s-disturbing-relationship-McCanns.html
Quite a memory he has there. I couldn't tell you where I was on 3rd May 2007, let alone where a relative was.
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MIsty!!
Do you think an 83 yr old man who raped alledgedly an 18 yr old decades ago albeit alledgedly grooming her for a few years would be interested in a three yr old child? In 2007 fgs
Dont you think this is a desperate "lead"? Not that it is one at all.
It is normally ALWAYS the family or friend of (but not an octanagerian)
having sex with an 18 year old does not make someone a paedophile!! the word 'paed' implies child! 16 year olds are classed as adults! WTF .... lol
83 year old paedophiles don't stop their vile behaviour due to age! They do like to share as well everyone knows. Even convicted sex offenders who are in prison 'enjoy' their fantasies and share experiences. Having access to material for medical puroses they do seem to enjoy talking about their disgusting exploits in fine detail which caused me to actually,physically be sick.
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I'm not saying that at all, Mercury. No doubt SY will know if he was in the country or not.
But I've read there is a motto on the Algarve - "anything goes" - and who knows what sort of "parties" are hosted by the Elite in their holiday retreats.
Indeed and on their yachts in and around the MED...someone mentioned a boat...
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Not sure what you mean, Pegasus.
For example a villa rental may specify something like "Letting weeks are Thursday to Thursday"
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I'm not saying that at all, Mercury. No doubt SY will know if he was in the country or not.
But I've read there is a motto on the Algarve - "anything goes" - and who knows what sort of "parties" are hosted by the Elite in their holiday retreats.
There are always those abominable things but what ths man has been accused of is neither that nor paedophlia, just beng a dirty old man and rapist with a single 18 yr old and grooming them from 11
Why the heck would he or his wife allow depraved parties in his house?
There needs go be perspective here,not for just him but for everyone press labelled as a paedophile like that teacher who ran off to france with his 15 yr old student
My apologies anyway
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Quite a memory he has there. I couldn't tell you where I was on 3rd May 2007, let alone where a relative was.
Being in business usually means records exist for day to day, I dont find that strange
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There are always those abominable things but what ths man has been accused of is neither that nor paedophlia, just beng a dirty old man and rapist with a single 18 yr old and grooming them from 11
Why the heck would he or his wife allow depraved parties in his house?
There needs go be perspective here,not for just him but for everyone press labelled as a paedophile like that teacher who ran off to france with his 15 yr old student
My apologies anyway
dirty old man and rapist, well not as bad as I first thought..WTF?
"Sylvia Woosley said Freud befriended her family in 1948, when he was working at a hotel in the South of France, and started abusing her when she was 10." Okay this does pass over to some as paedophilia and dirty old man is another word for paedophile if the 'being dirty' involved children. Just saying...
Because he and his wife liked these kind of parties? His wife acknowledged and apologised for his behaviour.....hmm
Children coming forward to talk about a very difficult subject which has tormented them for many years and have suffered in silence, should NEVER be denied a platform in what ever form it comes. Yes I do agree to be wrongly labelled a sex pest,rapist, paedophile is a disgusting and vile state of affair for the victims and their families, the law is there to protect them as well. Let's not confuse the two.
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Being in business usually means records exist for day to day, I dont find that strange
That would constitute proof, which wasn't mentioned.
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That would constitute proof, which wasn't mentioned.
when Freud heard the news re Maddie PDL would register...first thing most would do would be to ring his father if he was there......he obviously didn't as he wasnt....thats how he would remember
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when Freud heard the news re Maddie PDL would register...first thing most would do would be to ring his father if he was there......he obviously didn't as he wasnt....thats how he would remember
Well put Davel,
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Should I be searching for any more names of interest in those rental lists, Pegasus?
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Should I be searching for any more names of interest in those rental lists, Pegasus?
Apart from the one entry possibly relevant to this thread, I found no other entries of any importance. There are a few rentals by witnesses but they are not important IMO.
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Apart from the one entry possibly relevant to this thread, I found no other entries of any importance. There are a few rentals by witnesses but they are not important IMO.
Thank you. It is a laborious process & some of the documents are almost illegible.
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BTW these car rental pages list only the booker and the first named driver, and do not list other named drivers
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BTW these car rental pages list only the booker and the first named driver, and do not list other named drivers
Yes, thanks for that.
Did you come across a booking for RS Balu when you were checking? I saw very little evidence of any MW guests' names on those lists. Do you consider that odd?
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Yes, thanks for that.
Did you come across a booking for RS Balu when you were checking? I saw very little evidence of any MW guests' names on those lists. Do you consider that odd?
Nothing odd there at all Misty, women are quite capable of booking a car.
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Nothing odd there at all Misty, women are quite capable of booking a car.
Must have missed C-X, yes?
Do you have any thoughts on JF 3/5 which could be posted here?
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Nothing odd there at all Misty, women are quite capable of booking a car.
Yep, but if with a man, it is more usual for the man to do it.
But I guess you are right, all possibilities must be looked at.
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(snip) any thoughts on JF 3/5 (snip)
The agent is luz area and the car co has luz name.
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The agent is luz area and the car co has luz name.
2 branches, Lagoa & Faro?
I thought it was an airport booking as Faro is named.
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2 branches, Lagoa & Faro?
I thought it was an airport booking as Faro is named.
Car co based in Lagos.Accom agent based in luz, books cars (obviously airport pickup) for customers visiting luz area, and did I mention changeover days?
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Car co based in Lagos.Accom agent based in luz, books cars (obviously airport pickup) for customers visiting luz area, and did I mention changeover days?
Thursdays were mentioned as a regular changeover day at OC, so nothing strange there. It's quite surprising to see just how many cars were hired in the area in that short period of time.
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I wonder why Freud's wife wasn't with him in Portugal, or did she holiday with him at some point.
Perhaps he wanted the McCann's over to find out how the case was going and to see if they had any suspects who might know him, and know exactly what he was.
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I wonder why Freud's wife wasn't with him in Portugal, or did she holiday with him at some point.
Perhaps he wanted the McCann's over to find out how the case was going and to see if they had any suspects who might know him, and know exactly what he was.
Where did you read mr freud was in portugal?
His wife was according to the posts you havent read when she rented a car, then again, is it the same jill freud? Its just a name and in this case and in life same names never prove it is the same person
John brown rented that car a week later, a john brown is gordon browns brother, theres been dots linked to gordon brown and MM case, same difference, see?
You may argue CF is a paedo, its not proven and even if it was, youd have to make massive leaps and if you DO then you have to discard the stolen to be loved and brought up theory
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Where did you read mr freud was in portugal?
His wife was according to the posts you havent read when she rented a car, then again, is it the same jill freud? Its just a name and in this case and in life same names never prove it is the same person
John brown rented that car a week later, a john brown is gordon browns brother, theres been dots linked to gordon brown and MM case, same difference, see?
You may argue CF is a paedo, its not proven and even if it was, youd have to make massive leaps and if you DO then you have to discard the stolen to be loved and brought up theory
Allegations were made and believed, CF's wife apologised, so she must have been aware or believed them. If it was my husband I would never apologise If I knew he was innocent.
I don't know anyone who believes Maddie was stolen to order for a bereaving family to make her happy or swapped with a corpse to help a family of a child who died.
Claiming abduction had sinister tones to imply she was abducted by a lone paedophile or paedophile gang. Some do not believe in the theory that there was indeed a phaedophile ring in that area and that Maddie wandered off out of the house and was picked up by one. It does seem more plausable IMO.
I still wonder about the conversations betwee parents and CF. Something bothering me about this.
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Where did you read mr freud was in portugal?
His wife was according to the posts you havent read when she rented a car, then again, is it the same jill freud? Its just a name and in this case and in life same names never prove it is the same person
John brown rented that car a week later, a john brown is gordon browns brother, theres been dots linked to gordon brown and MM case, same difference, see?
You may argue CF is a paedo, its not proven and even if it was, youd have to make massive leaps and if you DO then you have to discard the stolen to be loved and brought up theory
I dont believe that Clement Freud abducted Madeleine, but there do seem to be interesting 'links' and I think that it is a good idea to look at them
1) It is reputed that CF visited the pub, which I think was nicknamed 'The Plough and Paedo'. Tannerman could have been heading there after being seen by Jane. He was walking in the right general direction
He was going east along Rua Dr.Agostinho de Silva. First turn right after about 30 metres and he was in an ill lit alleyway leading straight down to the main route out of PdL, called Rua Direita. The Plough and Paedo was on the corner of this alleyway and that main route.
This was a walk in a little used, dimly lit and little overlooked alleyway. A total distance from Janes sighting of about 180 metres.
From GE street scene, the pub now seems to be called Barroca Bar and Restaurante
Shining: Please would you correct me, if I have any of this description wrong. You have valuable on the spot local knowledge
If you are interested and want to look on GE, it is the next alleyway east of and running in a parallel SSE direction from Rua Dr F G Martins (the road Jane was walking up)
2) A cars headlights were reported to have been seen going up towards the plateau at the eastern end of PdL. CF's house was well up this road
3) CF is reputed to be a paedo. Paedos are reported to "flock" together. I don't know whether this is true, but seems they do support each other.
4) CF approached Kate and Gerry to come around for a meal. Was this simply kindness or was it to find out how the investigation was progressing from their point of view and private investigators?
Are there any other links that anyone can think of ?
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I dont believe that Clement Freud abducted Madeleine, but there do seem to be interesting 'links' and I think that it is a good idea to look at them
1) It is reputed that CF visited the pub, which I think was nicknamed 'The Plough and Paedo'. Tannerman could have been heading there after being seen by Jane. He was walking in the right general direction
He was going east along Rua Dr.Agostinho de Silva. First turn right after about 30 metres and he was in an ill lit alleyway leading straight down to the main route out of PdL, called Rua Direita. The Plough and Paedo was on the corner of this alleyway and that main route.
This was a walk in a little used, dimly lit and little overlooked alleyway. A total distance from Janes sighting of about 180 metres.
From GE street scene, the pub now seems to be called Barroca Bar and Restaurante
Shining: Please would you correct me, if I have any of this description wrong. You have valuable on the spot local knowledge
If you are interested and want to look on GE, it is the next alleyway east of and running in a parallel SSE direction from Rua Dr F G Martins (the road Jane was walking up)
2) A cars headlights were reported to have been seen going up towards the plateau at the eastern end of PdL. CF's house was well up this road
3) CF is reputed to be a paedo. Paedos are reported to "flock" together. I don't know whether this is true, but seems they do support each other.
4) CF approached Kate and Gerry to come around for a meal. Was this simply kindness or was it to find out how the investigation was progressing from their point of view and private investigators?
Are there any other links that anyone can think of ?
I am working through this step by step on my blog, Sadie.
I am loathe to paint the current proprietors of the bar/restaurant with this tale. They both went out (from what they did back at the time of the disappearance) and searched for Madeleine on the night of 3 May 2007. Later, when my family was getting bounced around from pillar to post in Luz in 2013, we rented their villa for a couple of months, which made the difference to us between going under and surviving. The lady of the house has a reputation as an excellent cook. But when we met her, she told us that she had been diagnosed with cancer, had been treated by Portuguese medical facilities on the Algarve, and had been given the all-clear. Consequently she had decided to concentrate on things a bit more important in her life than making money by cooking in her restaurant.
The story of the Plough is quite separate, IMO.
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Thursdays were mentioned as a regular changeover day at OC, so nothing strange there ....(snip)
And at cc misty
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And at cc misty
It sleeps 11, Pegasus, so I doubt she was there on her own.
No doubt the maid & gardener have been interviewed.
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It sleeps 11, Pegasus, so I doubt she was there on her own.... (snip)
that makes sense Misty
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...and with whom does an adult most commonly go on holiday?
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...and with whom does an adult most commonly go on holiday?
In many cases it would be a spouse/partner. However, the Freuds were not your average couple and if the hire car period was representative of the duration of the holiday in Luz, I suggest JF may have been accompanied by friend(s) or another family member.
JF was very busy with her theatre company during the summer of 2007, which would explain her absence when CF entertained the McCanns. http://www.fespa.co.uk/Back%20numbers/Friends%20news%2027.pdf
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Does anyone have a clue as to what Freud did in Luz when he owned the villa, or in the later years when he rented it for holidays?
I've got a profile of Freud the person, but frankly, it is not stacking up with a profile of Luz, the place.
Something is out of kilter.
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...and with whom does an adult most commonly go on holiday?
In many cases it would be a spouse/partner ... (snip)
IMO that is the most likely possibility Misty
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There were two villas with that name in PDL so it's important to get the right one.
The relevant one had a Thu to Thu rental week.
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There were two villas with that name in PDL so it's important to get the right one.
The relevant one had a Thu to Thu rental week.
The one in Parque da Praia is rather attractive & in keeping with the more affluent in society.
I assume, however, that the journalist has shown the correct one in the report.
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I often wonder about this villa no name though- http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/103035/Madeleine-The-missed-clues-at-1m-villa
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Does anyone have a clue as to what Freud did in Luz when he owned the villa, or in the later years when he rented it for holidays?
I've got a profile of Freud the person, but frankly, it is not stacking up with a profile of Luz, the place.
Something is out of kilter.
Indeed! I believe this should be given further attention.
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I often wonder about this villa no name though- http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/103035/Madeleine-The-missed-clues-at-1m-villa
I do recall a conversation I had with someone about this claim, a long time ago Lace, CF was not mentioned at the time, but others linked too the government were. I was shocked when CF name was mentioned because it did reveal something to me along with other little bits of information that has not been openly challenged.
The gray thing we keep looking at is the elephant in the room I think.
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I do recall a conversation I had with someone about this claim, a long time ago Lace, CF was not mentioned at the time, but others linked too the government were. I was shocked when CF name was mentioned because it did reveal something to me along with other little bits of information that has not been openly challenged.
The gray thing we keep looking at is the elephant in the room I think.
Which is? Not following.....
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Which is? Not following.....
Sorry Merc, I can't say openly. &%&£(+
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Sorry Merc, I can't say openly. &%&£(+
So you are making claims that can't be validated. Is this allowed?
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So you are making claims that can't be validated. Is this allowed?
Pot, Kettle?
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So you are making claims that can't be validated. Is this allowed?
I havn't made any claims, or accused anyone of anything.
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I havn't made any claims, or accused anyone of anything.
There were, but it isn't important to the case, so I won't waste my time developing the argument.
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There were, but it isn't important to the case, so I won't waste my time developing the argument.
Excuse me for butting in. I'd like to have a cite and link for the video.
The video with Kate McCann saying she found Cuddle Cat on the high shelf.
If you can't produce that, I'd suggest all your posts about this, as well as all your speculations related to your as yet unsubstanciated claim, to be deleted.
If only for the credibility of this forum
Kindest regards
parapono
I probably posted this on the wrong thread, mods can you please put it on one of the Cuddle Cat threads.