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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on September 02, 2016, 11:14:05 AM
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It always surprises me that supporters are not more angered that funds donated to further the search for a little girl they claim to care about are being diverted to pay for unnecessary litigation.
We are told that the case against Amaral was brought because his book was harming the search for Madeleine but what has really caused more harm, a book which most people would never have heard of if not for the litigation or having very little money in the fund to pay for the investigators needed to further the search?
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It always surprises me that supporters are not more angered that funds donated to further the search for a little girl they claim to care about are being diverted to pay for unnecessary litigation.
We are told that the case against Amaral was brought because his book was harming the search for Madeleine but what has really caused more harm, a book which most people would never have heard of if not for the litigation or having very little money in the fund to pay for the investigators needed to further the search?
The family of Ben Needham have managed to conduct a search for their son over many years on a shoestring so why does Madeleine deserve any less?
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It always surprises me that supporters are not more angered that funds donated to further the search for a little girl they claim to care about are being diverted to pay for unnecessary litigation.
We are told that the case against Amaral was brought because his book was harming the search for Madeleine but what has really caused more harm, a book which most people would never have heard of if not for the litigation or having very little money in the fund to pay for the investigators needed to further the search?
I thought Amaral was a national celebrity author and media pundit in the country where Madeleine went missing, even before the McCanns began legal proceedings against him?
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I thought Amaral was a national celebrity author and media pundit in the country where Madeleine went missing, even before the McCanns began legal proceedings against him?
I noticed you avoided my question Alfie.
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I noticed you avoided my question Alfie.
Your question was built on a false premise which is why I didn't answer it. Try asking it again, only leave out the bit about Amaral's book being virtually unknown, because actually he and his book were very (in)famous in the country where Madeleine was last seen, weren't they?
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Your question was built on a false premise which is why I didn't answer it. Try asking it again, only leave out the bit about Amaral's book being virtually unknown, because actually he and his book were very (in)famous in the country where Madeleine was last seen, weren't they?
What damaged the search more Amaral's book or not having enough money in the fund to pay PI's when OG is inevitably winds down ?
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What damaged the search more Amaral's book or not having enough money in the fund to pay PI's when OG is inevitably winds down ?
So far, clearly Amaral's book has done far more damage to the search than the Fund's current financial situation, a situation which may change for the better if the McCanns win their appeal, or if wealthy benefactor(s) make further donations.
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So far, clearly Amaral's book has done far more damage to the search than the Fund's current financial situation, a situation which may change for the better if the McCanns win their appeal, or if wealthy benefactor(s) make further donations.
Thus far the courts have ruled the book did not harm the search. So both sides of the equation above = zero.
The significance being ..... &%+((£
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So far, clearly Amaral's book has done far more damage to the search than the Fund's current financial situation, a situation which may change for the better if the McCanns win their appeal, or if wealthy benefactor(s) make further donations.
That ship has sailed or hadn't you noticed?
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Thus far the courts have ruled the book did not harm the search. So both sides of the equation above = zero.
The significance being ..... &%+((£
I'm with Alfie on this one, Alice.
It's not just Amaral's book, but his entire long-lasting media blitz insisting on his theory, the worst of which (IMO) being that the child died and was therefore not worth the vigilance of the public at large.
How many people who believe him to be one of the foremost "we, experts, policemen" realise that he hadn't a clue what he was talking about concerning the DNA results for example, particularly when nodding donkey presenters on various TV couches don't even question him?
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What damaged the search more Amaral's book or not having enough money in the fund to pay PI's when OG is inevitably winds down ?
If Amaral had shut up, perhaps more information might have been forthcoming earlier... Just a thought.
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I'm with Alfie on this one, Alice.
It's not just Amaral's book, but his entire long-lasting media blitz insisting on his theory, the worst of which (IMO) being that the child died and was therefore not worth the vigilance of the public at large.
How many people who believe him to be one of the foremost "we, experts, policemen" realise that he hadn't a clue what he was talking about concerning the DNA results for example, particularly when nodding donkey presenters on various TV couches don't even question him?
Amaral will be privy to a hell of a lot more stuff than that written down in documents and since that is what you and I rely on I know who I would believe.
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If Amaral had shut up, perhaps more information might have been forthcoming earlier... Just a thought.
Would that be from those potential witnesses who were scared off by the McCann's fearsome private investigators?
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Amaral will be privy to a hell of a lot more stuff than that written down in documents and since that is what you and I rely on I know who I would believe.
Like his understanding of basic DNA, for example?
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If Amaral had shut up, perhaps more information might have been forthcoming earlier... Just a thought.
Or more likely not.
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If Amaral had shut up, perhaps more information might have been forthcoming earlier... Just a thought.
If the McCanns had ignored Amaral's book it would have faded into obscurity.
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If the McCanns had ignored Amaral's book it would have faded into obscurity.
How do you know? It might have been made into a movie, a sequel might have been written with even more scurrilous crap in it. The case hasn't faded into obscurity, so I don't see why a determined wannabe celeb like Amaral would allow his profile to dip significantly in his home country at least.
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Benice it always surprises me that supporters are not more angered that funds donated to further the search for a little girl they claim to care about are being diverted to pay for unnecessary litigation.
We are told that the case against Amaral was brought because his book was harming the search for Madeleine but what has really caused more harm, a book which most people would never have heard of if not for the litigation or having very little money in the fund to pay for the investigators needed to further the search?
IMO Amaral via his libelous book attempted to take away Madeleine's fundamental right to be considered alive (until there is evidence to prove otherwise) and her right to be searched for. IMO a successful case brought by the McCanns would have gone a long way to restore her right in the public's eye to be regarded as a living child who could be found.
His book was not virtually unknown - it was a best-seller and so IMO the McCanns were left with no choice but to challenge it for Madeleine's sake. As far as I am concerned to use money from the fund to try to achieve that aim is perfectly acceptable.
AIMHO
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IMO Amaral via his libelous book attempted to take away Madeleine's fundamental right to be considered alive (until there is evidence to prove otherwise) and her right to be searched for. IMO a successful case brought by the McCanns would have gone a long way to restore her right in the public's eye to be regarded as a living child who could be found.
His book was not virtually unknown - it was a best-seller and so IMO the McCanns were left with no choice but to challenge it for Madeleine's sake. As far as I am concerned to use money from the fund to try to achieve that aim is perfectly acceptable.
AIMHO
'libelous book'.
Perhaps you can tell me which court case has confirmed it to be libelous ?
As to the Mccanns, their actions ensured through the court actions that Amaral's book received a much wider audience.
They are responsible for the books wider distribution. They should have left it alone.
IMHO of course.
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@Faithlilly, don't you accept the argument that Goncalo Amaral's book was damaging for the search for Madeleine?
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@Faithlilly, don't you accept the argument that Goncalo Amaral's book was damaging for the search for Madeleine?
The judge in the lower court found it not proved. How could it be proved?
11. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?
Not proved.
22. The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published?
Not proved.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0
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Don't you accept the argument that Goncalo Amaral's book was damaging for the search for Madeleine?
No I don't. It's a ridiculous argument roundly trashed by the trial judge and was used merely to justify the McCanns using the fund for their own private litigation. With so many different sightings of Madeleine even after the book was published the truth of my position is self-evident.
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The judge in the lower court found it not proved. How could it be proved?
11. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?
Not proved.
22. The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published?
Not proved.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0
I see what you mean, there needed to be some study to show people's perceptions had changed because of the claims in the book. Maybe that was a mistake on the McCann's part for my gut feeling is that it could easily have been proven. But since they hadn't done the study it wasn't proven. There doesn't seem to be the appreciation of the inevitable.
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No I don't. It's a ridiculous argument roundly trashed by the trial judge and was used merely to justify the McCanns using the fund for their own private litigation. With so many different sightings of Madeleine even after the book was published the truth of my position is self-evident.
"Not proven". What do you understand by this phrase?
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No I don't. It's a ridiculous argument roundly trashed by the trial judge and was used merely to justify the McCanns using the fund for their own private litigation. With so many different sightings of Madeleine even after the book was published the truth of my position is self-evident.
If you are talking about the first-instance judge, she commented that the book did not harm the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance,
It didn't.
The book was published after the investigation was shelved.
Is that what you are referring to?
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"Not proven". What do you understand by this phrase?
Which means that after looking at all the evidence the judge did not consider it proved the McCanns claim. Surely after 6 or so years of the case if the McCanns had such evidence they would have presented it?
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No I don't. It's a ridiculous argument roundly trashed by the trial judge and was used merely to justify the McCanns using the fund for their own private litigation. With so many different sightings of Madeleine even after the book was published the truth of my position is self-evident.
Hundreds of false alarms don't help. It is that insider information that they really needed.
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Which means that after looking at all the evidence the judge did not consider it proved the McCanns claim. Surely after 6 or so years of the case if the McCanns had such evidence they would have presented it?
So, neither proven nor disproven in other words. No firm evidence either way. Maybe it did harm the search, maybe it didn't - who knows?
Did the judge not have the option to state firmly that the accusation was false?
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Hundreds of false alarms don't help. It is that insider information that they really needed.
If it was an insider who had come forward Amaral's book would have no bearing on that.
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So, neither proven nor disproven in other words. No firm evidence either way. Maybe it did harm the search, maybe it didn't - who knows?
Did the judge not have the option to state firmly that the accusation was false?
But supporters and the McCanns strenuously claim Amaral's book harmed the search. They must base that claim on something.
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If it was an insider who had come forward Amaral's book would have no bearing on that.
Have you got proof?
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What's the point of providing you with cites?
Last time I provided a cite (to prove Amaral wrongly attributed to Harrison responsibility for switching the enquiry to one for a little girl assumed dead) you just ignored it.
I answered you ferryman. I pointed out that Harrison also found nothing strange about the investigators considering a possible death; he thought it a reasonable response.
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Have you got proof?
Sorry? Proof of what? It's simply common sense that if an insider came forward with information they would know Madeleine's status and therefore wouldn't be swayed by the book.
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Sorry? Proof of what? It's simply common sense that if an insider came forward with information they would know Madeleine's status and therefore wouldn't be swayed by the book.
I was being a bit naughty asking you for proof like the McCanns were expected to provide proof.
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I didn't want to swamp the forum with too many threads but I can now bring this spin-off back on line for discussion.
Question: What do members think would happen to Amaral and his book if Madeleine were one day to return alive and well?
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I didn't want to swamp the forum with too many threads but I can now bring this spin-off back on line for discussion.
Question: What do members think would happen to Amaral and his book if Madeleine were one day to return alive and well?
I don't think anything would happen to Amaral but I would expect sales of his phenomenal bestseller to take a bit of a dive...
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I didn't want to swamp the forum with too many threads but I can now bring this spin-off back on line for discussion.
Question: What do members think would happen to Amaral and his book if Madeleine were one day to return alive and well?
Not a lot on both fronts. I'm not sure why you asked the question really.
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Not a lot on both fronts. I'm not sure why you asked the question really.
For the simple reason that nobody is going to put their entire reputation and credibility so publicly on the line unless they were damn sure of their facts. If Madeleine were to walk back some day Amaral would end up a laughing stock surely?
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For the simple reason that nobody is going to put their entire reputation and credibility so publicly on the line unless they were damn sure of their facts. If Madeleine were to walk back some day Amaral would end up a laughing stock surely?
Amaral's book was no more than a summary of the investigation up to the point he was moved. It was not simply his personal opinion so no embarrassment needed.
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Amaral's book was no more than a summary of the investigation up to the point he was moved. It was not simply his personal opinion so no embarrassment needed.
Indeed, I think any bombshell would be if the mccanns were ever proved to be involved and how would kateys book look like then?
I dread to think
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For the simple reason that nobody is going to put their entire reputation and credibility so publicly on the line unless they were damn sure of their facts. If Madeleine were to walk back some day Amaral would end up a laughing stock surely?
Your proposition being that Snr Amaral, for one reason or another, was reasonably convinced that it would never happen ?
I think any expansion now has to be cerebral in consideration rather than written.... 8(>((
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Thus far the courts have ruled the book did not harm the search. So both sides of the equation above = zero.
The significance being ..... &%+((£
I've no clue about this second-instance judge, but the first instance judge said the book had not harmed the investigation.
Nothing else.
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Amaral's book was no more than a summary of the investigation up to the point he was moved. It was not simply his personal opinion so no embarrassment needed.
It's not just the book though but every interview he has given since August 2007. I don't recall his theory relating to a refrigerator being included within the archive or his claim that the parents were involved in an abduction simulation?
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I've no clue about this second-instance judge, but the first instance judge said the book had not harmed the investigation.
Nothing else.
And her comments were found wanting so overruled.
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And her comments were found wanting so overruled.
Found wanting how?
The book was published after the investigation was shelved and so the book cannot have harmed the investigation.
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Found wanting how?
The book was published after the investigation was shelved and so the book cannot have harmed the investigation.
I wonder why the McCann's lawyer included that point? They did say in 2010;
They said there were cases where their investigators had passed leads on to the Portuguese authorities and Leicestershire Police, their local force, only for them to be ignored.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id311.html
I wonder if they were referring to those 'Smithman' e-fits?
11. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?
Not proved.