UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: ShiningInLuz on October 16, 2016, 01:57:02 AM
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I have chunked my way through paedophilia in Holland, Spain, Portugal, the USA and world-wide.
The last piece of this putrid puzzle I need is the bit that relates specifically to the Madeleine McCann incident. That is, sexual assaults upon minors, in the Algarve, around the time Madeleine disappeared.
I can dig my own way through this issue, but it strikes me it would be easier if forum members chipped in with their personal understanding.
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There is a lot of press references to it and a few statements from SY that mention it.
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I have chunked my way through paedophilia in Holland, Spain, Portugal, the USA and world-wide.
The last piece of this putrid puzzle I need is the bit that relates specifically to the Madeleine McCann incident. That is, sexual assaults upon minors, in the Algarve, around the time Madeleine disappeared.
I can dig my own way through this issue, but it strikes me it would be easier if forum members chipped in with their personal understanding.
Cant help you, sorry
But there certainly were some reported on here, maybe before you joined the forum?
They should still be there if you can find the trigger word ... and if the "search" facility works for you.
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As i was sayng in answer to the OP the only info available is a few newspaper reports in portugal describing child molestation or sitting on a childs bed gawping at them
No evidence of rape murder or abduction
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As i was sayng in answer to the OP the only info available is a few newspaper reports in portugal describing child molestation or sitting on a childs bed gawping at them
No evidence of rape murder or abduction
It was difficult to work out when or if the offences were reported to the police. There was an impression that people came forward as part of the appeal.
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It was difficult to work out when or if the offences were reported to the police. There was an impression that people came forward as part of the appeal.
IIRC - more parents of sexually assaulted children came forward as a result of the appeal.
In her book Kate quotes part of a letter of complaint by one of the parents and sent to the GNR about 'the sexual abuse of her daughter and the lack of proper attention paid to it :-
Quote
It is difficult to see with this lack of investigation or interest how a profile of this man can be built up. It did not appear to us that there was any great incentive or determination to find the offender and bring him to justice....... Furthermore, it could all have been so much worse......indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he's not stopped now.
End quote
Also IIRC DCI Redwood asked for people to contact them even if they had reported the crime to the police in PT - as it could be that SY had no information or knowledge of their particular child's sexual assault. (from memory)
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IIRC - more parents of sexually assaulted children came forward as a result of the appeal.
In her book Kate quotes part of a letter of complaint by one of the parents and sent to the GNR about 'the sexual abuse of her daughter and the lack of proper attention paid to it :-
Quote
It is difficult to see with this lack of investigation or interest how a profile of this man can be built up. It did not appear to us that there was any great incentive or determination to find the offender and bring him to justice....... Furthermore, it could all have been so much worse......indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he's not stopped now.
End quote
Also IIRC DCI Redwood asked for people to contact them even if they had reported the crime to the police in PT - as it could be that SY had no information or knowledge of their particular child's sexual assault. (from memory)
Interestingly the book implies that the reports on the assaults are in the files which AFAIK they aren't.
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Interestingly the book implies that the reports on the assaults are in the files which AFAIK they aren't.
I thought it was common knowledge that those reports were left out of the files that were posted on the net?
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I thought it was common knowledge that those reports were left out of the files that were posted on the net?
Yes.
Not everything committed to the archiving dispatch washed up online.
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Interestingly the book implies that the reports on the assaults are in the files which AFAIK they aren't.
On the contrary, Kate doesn't 'imply' - she makes it clear that information about sexual assaults on UK children was contained in the files in their possession.
Pages 322 onwards show that to be the case in several places - including this extract on page 323.
Quote
Page 322 -In the meantime I set to work on the files.
........................SNIP.......................................
Page 323 . These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Praia da Luz over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance. The PJ had never mentioned any of them to us. In fact I gathered from the files, some them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes) So they might never have come to light if the parents of these children hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British Police after Madeleine was taken and relive their nightmares. They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what happened to their chidren and what had happened to her.
It broke my heart to read the terrible accounts................. etc etc
end quote
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On the contrary, Kate doesn't 'imply' - she makes it clear that information about sexual assaults on UK children was contained in the files in their possession.
Pages 322 onwards show that to be the case in several places - including this extract on page 323.
Quote
Page 322 -In the meantime I set to work on the files.
........................SNIP.......................................
Page 323 . These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Praia da Luz over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance. The PJ had never mentioned any of them to us. In fact I gathered from the files, some them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes) So they might never have come to light if the parents of these children hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British Police after Madeleine was taken and relive their nightmares. They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what happened to their chidren and what had happened to her.
It broke my heart to read the terrible accounts................. etc etc
end quote
Is right, Benice.
And Slarti overlooks that not everything in the archiving dispatch washed-up on line.
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On the contrary, Kate doesn't 'imply' - she makes it clear that information about sexual assaults on UK children was contained in the files in their possession.
Pages 322 onwards show that to be the case in several places - including this extract on page 323.
Quote
Page 322 -In the meantime I set to work on the files.
........................SNIP.......................................
Page 323 . These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Praia da Luz over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance. The PJ had never mentioned any of them to us. In fact I gathered from the files, some them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes) So they might never have come to light if the parents of these children hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British Police after Madeleine was taken and relive their nightmares. They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what happened to their chidren and what had happened to her.
It broke my heart to read the terrible accounts................. etc etc
end quote
I can't see how they could both be in the PJ Files and simultaneously not be recorded by the PJ.
Having reread the relevant pages in the book (thank you) Kate appears to be describing a process whereby information was becoming public by UK people going to the UK police with these incidents in the light of media coverage of Madeleine's case.
There's no evidence these assaults were linked by the PJ to Madeleine. The process described by Andy Redwood suggests the PJ were not linking them to each other either. This line of thought seems to have into effect by about March 2014, when Redwood and co were appealing for more information on the topic from the public.
As to the media, how much of this had been aired in the time before Kate's book was written?
As to the British Consul, Kate has a guess about his source of information.
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I can't see how they could both be in the PJ Files and simultaneously not be recorded by the PJ.
Having reread the relevant pages in the book (thank you) Kate appears to be describing a process whereby information was becoming public by UK people going to the UK police with these incidents in the light of media coverage of Madeleine's case.
There's no evidence these assaults were linked by the PJ to Madeleine. The process described by Andy Redwood suggests the PJ were not linking them to each other either. This line of thought seems to have into effect by about March 2014, when Redwood and co were appealing for more information on the topic from the public.
As to the media, how much of this had been aired in the time before Kate's book was written?
As to the British Consul, Kate has a guess about his source of information.
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that OG have linked them to Madeleine either.
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There doesn't seem to be any evidence that OG have linked them to Madeleine either.
Madeleine McCann: British police now investigating 18 linked break-ins by a lone paedophile prowler at Algarve villas
06:58, 24 APR 2014
BY TOM PETTIFOR
DETECTIVES looking for Madeleine McCann are investigating a sex assault on a 10-year-old girl from the UK at the same Algarve resort two years before Maddie vanished.
BRITISH police looking for Madeleine McCann are investigating a sex assault on a 10-year-old girl from the UK in the same resort.
The 10-year-old was attacked in Praia da Luz two years before Maddie vanished, but details of the crime have only just been reported to Scotland Yard.
Detectives are now looking at EIGHTEEN break-ins by a lone paedophile prowler at Algarve villas to see if they are linked to the McCann case. They appealed last month for information to help them trace a smelly, pot-bellied intruder, and more than 500 people have come forward with information so far.
But they fear that Portuguese police who investigated the break-ins at the time may have left vital forensic clues languishing in storage.
The 10-year-old victim of the newly reported assault was molested by an intruder in 2005 at a villa in Praia da Luz.
It happened a few hundred yards from the villa where Madeleine, three, disappeared in 2007 while on holiday with her parents, brother and sister.
The new victim came forward after last month’s Scotland Yard appeal. She is now 19, and it’s believed she may have only just revealed what happened to her.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, leading the Scotland Yard team, said: “This offence now takes us into the resort, so of course it is very significant.
“Clearly the fact that we’ve now got an assault in the heart of Praia da Luz means we are even more interested in this as part of the inquiry.”
DCI Redwood’s appeal in March also led to reports of four more new sex assaults and one “near miss”.
Five of the new incidents were reported to local police at the time, but the Portuguese did not tell the Scotland Yard team about them.
And DCI Redwood fears other important evidence may have been forgotten.
He believes local officers on the Algarve may have gathered forensics from the attack scenes which could unlock the mystery – but then failed to tell the country’s national force, the Policia Judiciaria, about them.
He said: “If there’s a breakdown in communication between local cops and the Policia Judiciaria, there could be forensic material sitting in exhibit stores somewhere that we and the PJ are not aware of.”
The newly reported attacks happened between 2004 and 2006 and involved British girls aged between six and 12.
DCI Redwood said he was “extremely positive” about where the new reports could lead.
He said: “They all pre-date the disappearance of Madeleine. They give us a real, clear focus going forward.
“For every singleone, this has been a horrendous experience. This is your worst nightmare.”
Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, welcomed the new developments.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The fact new information is coming out shows the scale of work yet to be done, and Kate and Gerry hope it can be completed as soon as possible.”
Scotland Yard yesterday said they are waiting for agreement from the Portuguese to begin “operational activity” on the Algarve as early next week. This could involve making arrests and questioning witnesses, in co-operation with the Portuguese police.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt said: “I am cautiously optimistic that in the not-too-distant future we are going to start to see activity.”
The British detectives want to speak to a number of suspects in Portugal but cannot arrest people or do interviews themselves. They can only accompany Portuguese officers.
A source close to Kate and Gerry said: “It appears the Yard have X, Y and Z they want to interview out there
but they won’t have the power to do it themselves.
“Any arrests and formal interviews will be conducted by the Portuguese police with Met officers sitting in on them.
“They can’t be the lead police force in a foreign country and just go and knock doors. They have to be hosted.
“It’s very frustrating for them. And the fact that previous attacks haven’t been fully investigated by the Portuguese authorities shows a degree of incompetence.”
Anyone with information can call police on 0207 321 9251 or Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-british-police-now-3448321
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Madeleine McCann: British police now investigating 18 linked break-ins by a lone paedophile prowler at Algarve villas
06:58, 24 APR 2014
BY TOM PETTIFOR
DETECTIVES looking for Madeleine McCann are investigating a sex assault on a 10-year-old girl from the UK at the same Algarve resort two years before Maddie vanished.
BRITISH police looking for Madeleine McCann are investigating a sex assault on a 10-year-old girl from the UK in the same resort.
The 10-year-old was attacked in Praia da Luz two years before Maddie vanished, but details of the crime have only just been reported to Scotland Yard.
Detectives are now looking at EIGHTEEN break-ins by a lone paedophile prowler at Algarve villas to see if they are linked to the McCann case. They appealed last month for information to help them trace a smelly, pot-bellied intruder, and more than 500 people have come forward with information so far.
But they fear that Portuguese police who investigated the break-ins at the time may have left vital forensic clues languishing in storage.
The 10-year-old victim of the newly reported assault was molested by an intruder in 2005 at a villa in Praia da Luz.
It happened a few hundred yards from the villa where Madeleine, three, disappeared in 2007 while on holiday with her parents, brother and sister.
The new victim came forward after last month’s Scotland Yard appeal. She is now 19, and it’s believed she may have only just revealed what happened to her.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, leading the Scotland Yard team, said: “This offence now takes us into the resort, so of course it is very significant.
“Clearly the fact that we’ve now got an assault in the heart of Praia da Luz means we are even more interested in this as part of the inquiry.”
DCI Redwood’s appeal in March also led to reports of four more new sex assaults and one “near miss”.
Five of the new incidents were reported to local police at the time, but the Portuguese did not tell the Scotland Yard team about them.
And DCI Redwood fears other important evidence may have been forgotten.
He believes local officers on the Algarve may have gathered forensics from the attack scenes which could unlock the mystery – but then failed to tell the country’s national force, the Policia Judiciaria, about them.
He said: “If there’s a breakdown in communication between local cops and the Policia Judiciaria, there could be forensic material sitting in exhibit stores somewhere that we and the PJ are not aware of.”
The newly reported attacks happened between 2004 and 2006 and involved British girls aged between six and 12.
DCI Redwood said he was “extremely positive” about where the new reports could lead.
He said: “They all pre-date the disappearance of Madeleine. They give us a real, clear focus going forward.
“For every singleone, this has been a horrendous experience. This is your worst nightmare.”
Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, welcomed the new developments.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The fact new information is coming out shows the scale of work yet to be done, and Kate and Gerry hope it can be completed as soon as possible.”
Scotland Yard yesterday said they are waiting for agreement from the Portuguese to begin “operational activity” on the Algarve as early next week. This could involve making arrests and questioning witnesses, in co-operation with the Portuguese police.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt said: “I am cautiously optimistic that in the not-too-distant future we are going to start to see activity.”
The British detectives want to speak to a number of suspects in Portugal but cannot arrest people or do interviews themselves. They can only accompany Portuguese officers.
A source close to Kate and Gerry said: “It appears the Yard have X, Y and Z they want to interview out there
but they won’t have the power to do it themselves.
“Any arrests and formal interviews will be conducted by the Portuguese police with Met officers sitting in on them.
“They can’t be the lead police force in a foreign country and just go and knock doors. They have to be hosted.
“It’s very frustrating for them. And the fact that previous attacks haven’t been fully investigated by the Portuguese authorities shows a degree of incompetence.”
Anyone with information can call police on 0207 321 9251 or Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-british-police-now-3448321
Giving it a quick thrash through the jolly old winnowing macheeny we get the bits in bold as kosher comment from the Runners.
Not alot there. Oh what surprise.
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I think the DAC was wise to be cautious
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what short memories some people have:
Redwood "These offences are very serious and no one has been charged in connection with them. We also need to eliminate this man from our inquiries and ascertain whether these offences are linked to Madeleine's disappearance," he said.
"If you have been a victim of a similar crime please come forward even if you reported the incident to police in Portugal, or anywhere else, please do not assume we have been made aware of it."
There was also a "very close resonance" to some features of Madeleine's disappearance, said Redwood.
"We really need to identify the offender, to bring to a close the trauma and the tragedy that these families have suffered, and then seek to establish whether this is connected to Madeleine's disappearance."
Also, from the same article, this (which will no doubt be scoffed at as the source is not named):
Scotland Yard also revealed it was looking at 38 "people of interest" in relation to her disappearance, having dismissed 22 others from that category. They were also trying to find out more about 530 known sex offenders – 59 regarded as of high interest – across Europe.
However Portugal's Polícia Judiciária (PJ) claimed that Wednesday's press conference simply confirmed a primary line of investigation which has been investigated by Portuguese police since last October. Suggestions that the information released by the Met had initially been discounted by Portuguese detectives were denied by a source at the PJ's headquarters in Lisbon.
He said that evidence of a string of crimes had been the driving force behind Portuguese officials re-opening the case. "It is all there in the police case files," said the source. "You will see when it is made public."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve
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what short memories some people have:
Redwood "These offences are very serious and no one has been charged in connection with them. We also need to eliminate this man from our inquiries and ascertain whether these offences are linked to Madeleine's disappearance," he said.
"If you have been a victim of a similar crime please come forward even if you reported the incident to police in Portugal, or anywhere else, please do not assume we have been made aware of it."
There was also a "very close resonance" to some features of Madeleine's disappearance, said Redwood.
"We really need to identify the offender, to bring to a close the trauma and the tragedy that these families have suffered, and then seek to establish whether this is connected to Madeleine's disappearance."
Also, from the same article, this (which will no doubt be scoffed at as the source is not named):
Scotland Yard also revealed it was looking at 38 "people of interest" in relation to her disappearance, having dismissed 22 others from that category. They were also trying to find out more about 530 known sex offenders – 59 regarded as of high interest – across Europe.
However Portugal's Polícia Judiciária (PJ) claimed that Wednesday's press conference simply confirmed a primary line of investigation which has been investigated by Portuguese police since last October. Suggestions that the information released by the Met had initially been discounted by Portuguese detectives were denied by a source at the PJ's headquarters in Lisbon.
He said that evidence of a string of crimes had been the driving force behind Portuguese officials re-opening the case. "It is all there in the police case files," said the source. "You will see when it is made public."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve
And did he achieve any of that ?
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And did he achieve any of that ?
I have no idea what has or hasn't been achieved as the Met don't give a running commentary on their progress but that is beside the point. You wanted evidence that the police were linking these incidents to Madeleine's case - I have provided it.
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I have no idea what has or hasn't been achieved as the Met don't give a running commentary on their progress but that is beside the point. You wanted evidence that the police were linking these incidents to Madeleine's case - I have provided it.
DCI Redwood did not link them except in the sense they are mentioned in the same sentence.
He seems to have said look to see if they are connected/linked.
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It seems to be saying that someone who didn't report anything in 2005 but waited 9 years before reporting an assault in Portugal to SY in 2014.
&%+((£
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It seems to be saying that someone who didn't report anything in 2005 but waited 9 years before reporting an assault in Portugal to SY in 2014.
&%+((£
What does? Please provide a cite.
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It was difficult to work out when or if the offences were reported to the police. There was an impression that people came forward as part of the appeal.
If one or 100 were reported none were abductions
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What does? Please provide a cite.
Maybe you should read Briettas post.
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Maybe you should read Briettas post.
Thanks, I have now. I don't know what is puzzling you though. Sometimes it takes years for victims of historical sex abuse to pluck up the courage to come forward. Why does this seem to puzzle you so?
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Thanks, I have now. I don't know what is puzzling you though. Sometimes it takes years for victims of historical sex abuse to pluck up the courage to come forward. Why does this seem to puzzle you so?
It wasnt them that took years to come forward it was their parents.
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It wasnt them that took years to come forward it was their parents.
Some may not have told their parents at the time.
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Some may not have told their parents at the time.
Yeah ok brietta nice try
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Some may not have told their parents at the time.
Quite feasible. I've yet to tell my parents about my own brush with a paedo. Wouldn't want to upset them.
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Quite feasible. I've yet to tell my parents about my own brush with a paedo. Wouldn't want to upset them.
Yes so a wave of kids decided to after crimewatch. Ok then
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Yes so a wave of kids decided to after crimewatch. Ok then
FGS mercury, haven't you been reading this forum at all?
The parents were in the apartments in the local area as the sexual assaults by a paedo took place. Of course they would know about them.
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FGS mercury, haven't you been reading this forum at all?
The parents were in the apartments in the local area as the sexual assaults by a paedo took place. Of course they would know about them.
Pure belief.
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Quite feasible. I've yet to tell my parents about my own brush with a paedo. Wouldn't want to upset them.
Why would you upset your parents by telling them? is it a family member? would they not belive you? do you, like many tens of thousands of abused children, feel shame or guilty about something which you should never feel shame or guilt about. Was he/ she percieved as a 'nice person'.
I am of the opinion some were looking for attention from the story and jumped onto a bandwagon. If their children were abused in PDL then surely as soon as adults knew they should have told the police there or here at home or gone to the papers to warn others?
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FGS mercury, haven't you been reading this forum at all?
The parents were in the apartments in the local area as the sexual assaults by a paedo took place. Of course they would know about them.
Seems you havent been reading this thread
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Seems you havent been reading this thread
So please show me where I have gone wrong.
I dont believe I have as SY have mentioned the child abuse in the apartments of British families whilst the families were asleep in an adjoining room
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There is no reason to believe that the instances of child abuse in the Portuguese Algarve are any more prevalent than they are in any other European holiday destination. These things are happening all the time all over the world to varying degrees.
Madeleine's disappearance has never been linked to other cases of child abuse by strangers as far as I recall.
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There is no reason to believe that the instances of child abuse in the Portuguese Algarve are any more prevalent than they are in any other European holiday destination. These things are happening all the time all over the world to varying degrees.
Madeleine's disappearance has never been linked to other cases of child abuse by strangers as far as I recall.
As I recall on the Algarve it concerned English victims and sundry smelly Iberian types who knew instinctively to speak in English to their victims.