Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: misty on November 25, 2016, 05:35:35 PM
Title: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on November 25, 2016, 05:35:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slziMpXY[Name removed]o&t=34s Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyB29g6nbDo&t=27s Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWWjkL-joS4&t=42s Part 3
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 08:10:29 AM
Have you watched them Misty ?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 09:25:55 AM
I'm watching them now. I think he is wrong in his analysis so far. He believes Madeleine was really tired on the Thursday so that blows Richard's original analysis that MM died days before.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 09:34:00 AM
I've watched all three.
Quite interesting to say the least.
Hyatt admits to have seen only a portion of interviews with the McCann's. and he based his analysis on primarily the clips shown.
Mr. Hyatt, had no time for Hall's conspiracy theories. I would say he was taking him with a pinch of salt. Hall mentioned the Moon landings for some absurd reason.
I've also researched Hyatt's background.
https://www.facebook.com/peter.hyatt.9
I've seen one reference to Hyatt, denouncing him as a fraud, by a Deric Lostutter, but the latter himself has problems of his own with the authorities in the States, including the F.B.I.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 09:59:26 AM
I still think that kate being a doctor makes the analysis flawed for she is a master in analysis herself. So when she knew Madeleine had been taken she is steps ahead of other people who might have just said my child is missing.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 10:03:29 AM
I still think that kate being a doctor makes the analysis flawed for she is a master in analysis herself. So when she knew Madeleine had been taken she is steps ahead of other people who might have just said my child is missing.
Utter drivel.
How could Mccann know what happened ?
After all, she wasn't there when Madeleine disappeared, was she. 8)-)))
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
After all, she wasn't there when Madeleine disappeared, was she. 8)-)))
She saw the scene and read the signs just like Amy T concluded MM was taken because Madeleine's shoes were still there, I wonder if there is such a connection between a 4 year old and their shoes but she did. Amy wasn't there either but she read the signs.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 10:15:13 AM
She saw the scene and read the signs just like Amy T concluded MM was taken because Madeleine's shoes were still there, I wonder if there is such a connection between a 4 year old and their shoes but she did. Amy wasn't there either but she read the signs.
Really ?
Or are you clutching at even more straws than usual. ?
Hyatt, it appears, does have extensive experience in the field of his analytical technique.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 10:18:29 AM
Or are you clutching at even more straws than usual. ?
Hyatt, it appears, does have extensive experience in the field of his analytical technique.
But how many doctors has he worked on? Gerry's "confession" could have some truth but the McCann's had no time to hide the body.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 10:23:14 AM
They had pleaded for the safe return for Madeleine from the beginning. He is an idiot. He doesn't know the case adequately. The McCanns might know where MM is but she is not dead. Peter Hyatt opinion is just another opinion.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 10:25:15 AM
She saw the scene and read the signs just like Amy T concluded MM was taken because Madeleine's shoes were still there, I wonder if there is such a connection between a 4 year old and their shoes but she did. Amy wasn't there either but she read the signs.
But not necessarily correctly.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 10:32:19 AM
As I admit, how much connection should be placed on the shoes, I'm unsure. Amy T and Kate both could have been wrong but their answer at the time was from their ability to sum up the signs.
For Kate the fact that cuddlecat and the blanket being left behind were the clues that MM was taken for if Madeleine had gone on her own (wandered) these items would have been taken by Madeleine herself.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 10:36:45 AM
Solving the MM case is my full time occupation this year. (I was going to give it 6 months or so and the time is up.) So I have failed (timewise) but I think I made some progress in coming up with the New Theory.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 10:50:30 AM
Solving the MM case is my full time occupation this year. (I was going to give it 6 months or so and the time is up.) So I have failed (timewise) but I think I made some progress in coming up with the New Theory.
Why is their profession relevant ?
I hope you are not trying to imply Doctor's are incapable of committing crimes. &%+((£
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 26, 2016, 10:54:57 AM
I admit to having watched the whole lot once and that is my limit.
The chap sounds like he is doing a variation of NLP.
The inferences to be gained from which pronoun was used in a given 'statement' left me less impressed than the dogs, and I'm not impressed by the dogs.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 11:00:50 AM
I admit to having watched the whole lot once and that is my limit.
The chap sounds like he is doing a variation of NLP.
The inferences to be gained from which pronoun was used in a given 'statement' left me less impressed than the dogs, and I'm not impressed by the dogs.
I haven't the time ow, but I will look at his track record as regards cases, after work. Perhaps other posters might want to do this in the meantime.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 11:02:43 AM
I haven't the time now, but I will look at his track record as regards cases, after work. Perhaps other posters might want to do this in the meantime.
From memory of the video, his work is not admissible as evidence. It is allegedly used to give police forces pointers and in some cases obtain confessions. If so, I think getting his track record is going to be problematic.
I wonder how Hall became aware of him.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on November 26, 2016, 11:25:39 AM
Yes, I watched them immediately after posting the links, Stephen. Having previously read his analysis of statements from the Deorr Kunz case, I was extremely interested to listen to what he had to say about the McCanns. IMO it was a mistake to use an interview given by the McCanns 4 years after Madeleine disappeared. It was also a mistake to analyse an isolated interview without first familiarising himself with the accusations made against the McCanns by the PJ during questioning & the subsequent contentious book. Anyone who knows the case pretty well understands that there is no confession of an "accidental sleep-induced fall" embedded in the parents' description of events. I have also just discovered that Hyatt did an almost identical exercise with another questioner in 2012, the transcript of which is available at http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/statement-analysis-mccann-interview-2011.html. There will be no frothing at the mouth or anything else from McCann supporters but I suspect there will be from other quarters when they realise Hall has spectacularly messed up again. Did he really not check Hyatt's credentials?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 26, 2016, 12:31:52 PM
Yes, I watched them immediately after posting the links, Stephen. Having previously read his analysis of statements from the Deorr Kunz case, I was extremely interested to listen to what he had to say about the McCanns. IMO it was a mistake to use an interview given by the McCanns 4 years after Madeleine disappeared. It was also a mistake to analyse an isolated interview without first familiarising himself with the accusations made against the McCanns by the PJ during questioning & the subsequent contentious book. Anyone who knows the case pretty well understands that there is no confession of an "accidental sleep-induced fall" embedded in the parents' description of events. I have also just discovered that Hyatt did an almost identical exercise with another questioner in 2012, the transcript of which is available at http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/statement-analysis-mccann-interview-2011.html. There will be no frothing at the mouth or anything else from McCann supporters but I suspect there will be from other quarters when they realise Hall has spectacularly messed up again. Did he really not check Hyatt's credentials?
"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest". 8(>((
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: G-Unit on November 26, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
Doctors listen to patients, conduct physical examinations, then guess what may be wrong using their knowledge and experience.
Detectives listen to the witnesses, examine the scene, then guess what may have happened using their knowledge and experience.
Both then look for further evidence to support or disprove their initial assessments.
In this case two doctors broadcast their opinion worldwide, bypassing the detectives and making their work very difficult thereafter. Strangely, Alex Woolfall said they held no such opinion at first, but how he missed the pleas they made in the media to 'whoever has Madeleine' I can't imagine.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on November 26, 2016, 03:10:46 PM
Poor RH he tries so hards sometimes...
I skimmed through some of the videos, I am probably being unfair, but I don't think that particular interview was relevent due to the time scale. I was watching body language and listening to all the interviews which were directly recent to the claim of Maddie being missing. I didn't belive the tapas from day one. and I did become aware that the parents were very quickly distancing themselves from their daughter. 'a little girl is missing' because a sort of slogan. If you look back at them you will notice that. Also the delivery in their interviews is very strange indeed, chortling, smirking, sniggering at the suggestion they were involved with their daughters dissapearance in stead of rage and dispair...
This is a very interesting scenario, I found the link on Blacksmiths: It is a long read, but interesting. http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/p/theory-english.html
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on November 26, 2016, 04:00:31 PM
I skimmed through some of the videos, I am probably being unfair, but I don't think that particular interview was relevent due to the time scale. I was watching body language and listening to all the interviews which were directly recent to the claim of Maddie being missing. I didn't belive the tapas from day one. and I did become aware that the parents were very quickly distancing themselves from their daughter. 'a little girl is missing' because a sort of slogan. If you look back at them you will notice that. Also the delivery in their interviews is very strange indeed, chortling, smirking, sniggering at the suggestion they were involved with their daughters dissapearance in stead of rage and dispair...
This is a very interesting scenario, I found the link on Blacksmiths: It is a long read, but interesting. http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/p/theory-english.html
Doing everything they could to keep Madeleine in the public eye - including being interviewed - are not the actions of people who wanted to distance themselves from their daughter imo.
If they had wanted to distance themselves from Madeleine they would have come home and kept their heads down until the case faded into obscurity. Instead they did everything in their power to keep her in the public's mind and constantly pressed for her case to be re-opened.
IOW they did the exact opposite of distancing themselves.
AIMHO
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on November 26, 2016, 04:22:02 PM
Doctors listen to patients, conduct physical examinations, then guess what may be wrong using their knowledge and experience.
Detectives listen to the witnesses, examine the scene, then guess what may have happened using their knowledge and experience.
Both then look for further evidence to support or disprove their initial assessments.
In this case two doctors broadcast their opinion worldwide, bypassing the detectives and making their work very difficult thereafter. Strangely, Alex Woolfall said they held no such opinion at first, but how he missed the pleas they made in the media to 'whoever has Madeleine' I can't imagine.
Actually it was Amaral who 'bypassed' the parents and instead chose to rely on second hand reports from others to make his assessments of a couple whom he personally had never met or spoken to.
Perhaps if he had personally spoken to them, listened to them and observed them - he might have made a different assessment. We shall never know.
IMO
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 26, 2016, 04:32:19 PM
I watched some of the video's but stopped after so long, it is so ridiculous.
He says that when describing Madeleine's birth, they found something wrong with Madeleine by saying she was loud. They were joking for gods sake, Gerry then went on to joke that she was a McCann, because he is loud. This man makes out that they had something against Madeleine from day one.
Then he goes on to say they are talking about her as if she is deceased, they were talking about her because they were asked to talk about her as a baby!!
Kate was concerned about herself he said, no, they were asked about what happened and how far away they were etc. Kate didn't show any concern to what may have been happening to Madeleine, it was weeks later they did that interview, perhaps if they had interviewed her straight away they would have seen she was screaming, shouting and crying hysterically. Stupid man.
Anyway when Kate did say what visions she had, what she thought may have been happening to Madeleine in her book, people made out she was a pervert.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 26, 2016, 04:37:25 PM
Somebody hid her very well and he was seen. SY were in Luz trying to find evidence of where. That's what Amaral was trying to do when he was removed. Find evidence of that hiding place. Nothing has changed.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on November 26, 2016, 04:43:22 PM
Doing everything they could to keep Madeleine in the public eye - including being interviewed - are not the actions of people who wanted to distance themselves from their daughter imo.
If they had wanted to distance themselves from Madeleine they would have come home and kept their heads down until the case faded into obscurity. Instead they did everything in their power to keep her in the public's mind and constantly pressed for her case to be re-opened.
IOW they did the exact opposite of distancing themselves.
AIMHO
Emotionally distancing themselves. Other genuine people who have lost children talk about their children in first terms IE My daughter, my Madeleine, our daughter, our precious daughter, my baby... etc...
Constantly pressed for the case to be reopened why? what new leads were there? what reason did they give? what evidence was there of an intruder that wasn't investigated at the time?
doing everything? not answering 48 questions and refusing to to a reconstruction to clarify the timeline? holding onto an possible important photo fit of 'smithman' OK if you say so.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 05:21:56 PM
I say doctor because Kate is a doctor. The diagnosis - Madeleine has been taken.
That is a statement being passed off as Fact. There is no evidence of her being taken. Officially Maddie is 'missing' not'taken,kiddknapped,abducted'. A diagnosis is arrived at after investigating symptoms and eliminating all other reasons for a health condition.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 05:40:03 PM
Somebody hid her very well and he was seen. SY were in Luz trying to find evidence of where. That's what Amaral was trying to do when he was removed. Find evidence of that hiding place. Nothing has changed.
He blames the parents for hiding the body. Does he say anything about who staged the abduction scene? Does he go along with Amaral and say the friends were somehow involved too? OK Smithman was seen but was it Madeleine? Who was he? Don't you think she could have been alive and hence hidden inside a house?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 05:43:39 PM
Doing everything they could to keep Madeleine in the public eye - including being interviewed - are not the actions of people who wanted to distance themselves from their daughter imo.
If they had wanted to distance themselves from Madeleine they would have come home and kept their heads down until the case faded into obscurity. Instead they did everything in their power to keep her in the public's mind and constantly pressed for her case to be re-opened.
IOW they did the exact opposite of distancing themselves.
AIMHO
They put themselves in the public glare, and as we know within days, a fund was set up for two people who were supposed to have highly paid jobs.
They then proceeded to put out the begging bowl to other people, so the Mccanns would not pay for their own mistakes.
As for searching themselves, that ended the morning after Madeleine disappeared.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 05:47:55 PM
That is a statement being passed off as Fact. There is no evidence of her being taken. Officially Maddie is 'missing' not'taken,kiddknapped,abducted'. A diagnosis is arrived at after investigating symptoms and eliminating all other reasons for a health condition.
The short term quickfire diagnosis seems to have been correct for they never did come across a hidden body in and around PDL have they. I'm just talking about Kate's immediate diagnosis - she been taken. Longer term Kate hopes Madeleine was a replacement child for some couple who have looked after Madeleine all these years. I've heard her say that in an interview. Did the long term view have a connection to the short term diagnosis? How does that all fit in with a staged crime scene and cadaver odours. A living Madeleine won't be producing cadaver odours. I think there is some other story not yet told to explain this mess.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 26, 2016, 05:52:03 PM
Stepping outside her field of expertise to pass comment.
She is a doctor and a mother who loved her child and knew Madeleine's usual behaviour e.g. if she had wandered off she would have taken cuddlecat with her. I'm not so sure she would have put her shoes on by herself though as Amy thought. Kate has never mentioned that Madeleine would do that. Both Amy and Kate agreed in the early stages she had been taken, yet the searches were for someone who had wandered basically, but would also cover circumstance where someone has taken her and dumped her closeby.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 26, 2016, 06:28:03 PM
They put themselves in the public glare, and as we know within days, a fund was set up for two people who were supposed to have highly paid jobs.
They then proceeded to put out the begging bowl to other people, so the Mccanns would not pay for their own mistakes.
As for searching themselves, that ended the morning after Madeleine disappeared.
They put themselves in the public glare in order to keep Madeleine's name alive in the media for gods sake.
The fund was set up because they needed somewhere to put all the money they were given for the search for Madeleine, you make the fund sound so disgusting with your 'begging bowl' comment. Listen many people who have a child missing have a fund for that child, they are begging, begging for their child to be found, you can give to it or not it's your choice.
The last sentence I am going to ignore, because you know very well why the McCann's couldn't go and search.
I watched a programme about two little girls who vanished on their way to school. The father of one of them said he searched, but then he said he had to leave it to the police, and how difficult it was to leave it to the police, I wonder what he would think if he read what you are saying.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 06:39:05 PM
Peter Hyatt emphasises the use of the polygraph. Did the McCanns refuse to take a polygraph?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on November 26, 2016, 06:43:43 PM
She is a doctor and a mother who loved her child and knew Madeleine's usual behaviour e.g. if she had wandered off she would have taken cuddlecat with her. I'm not so sure she would have put her shoes on by herself though as Amy thought. Kate has never mentioned that Madeleine would do that. Both Amy and Kate agreed in the early stages she had been taken, yet the searches were for someone who had wandered basically, but would also cover circumstance where someone has taken her and dumped her closeby.
1 So? 2 Are there any photos of Madeleine cluctching CuddleCat? 3.What is Amy's expertise in the field of child abduction? 4. If everyone was so sure she had been taken and borders should have been closed etc why were they looking only a block away or less?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 06:52:58 PM
1 So? 2 Are there any photos of Madeleine cluctching CuddleCat? 3.What is Amy's expertise in the field of child abduction? 4. If everyone was so sure she had been taken and borders should have been closed etc why were they looking only a block away or less?
1. So there! 2. I can't recall a photo of Madeleine holding cuddlecat, but I'll keep an eye open for that. 3. Ask Amy. Alice ask Amy. 4. Kate's point indeed, but what can the parents do other than ask that the borders be checked and they did ask for that.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 26, 2016, 06:56:27 PM
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 06:58:11 PM
One thing I wanted to ask you sleuths is that the video that Peter Hyatt analyses starts of saying there is never before seen home video and a clue that Madeleine left behind". Does anyone know what the "clue left behind" was? Is it referring to cuddle cat? 30:24 in the first in the series of 3. Where abouts in the original video is the clue?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 07:05:47 PM
They put themselves in the public glare in order to keep Madeleine's name alive in the media for gods sake.
The fund was set up because they needed somewhere to put all the money they were given for the search for Madeleine, you make the fund sound so disgusting with your 'begging bowl' comment. Listen many people who have a child missing have a fund for that child, they are begging, begging for their child to be found, you can give to it or not it's your choice.
The last sentence I am going to ignore, because you know very well why the McCann's couldn't go and search.
I watched a programme about two little girls who vanished on their way to school. The father of one of them said he searched, but then he said he had to leave it to the police, and how difficult it was to leave it to the police, I wonder what he would think if he read what you are saying.
Haven't you kind of got the message yet that I don't believe your McCann mantra propaganda, which you churn out again and again.
Cue the obvious response.
There is of course the point that the publicity, was simply a ploy, which then escalated with the cooperation of most more mbers of the press to call people tr##ls, who dared question the McCann's version of events.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 26, 2016, 07:10:53 PM
One thing I wanted to ask you sleuths is that the video that Peter Hyatt analyses starts of saying there is never before seen home video and a clue that Madeleine left behind". Does anyone know what the "clue left behind" was? Is it referring to cuddle cat? 30:24 in the first in the series of 3. Where abouts in the original video is the clue?
Which sleuths would they be?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 26, 2016, 07:12:45 PM
1. So there! 2. I can't recall a photo of Madeleine holding cuddlecat, but I'll keep an eye open for that. 3. Ask Amy. Alice ask Amy. 4. Kate's point indeed, but what can the parents do other than ask that the borders be checked and they did ask for that.
None of that addresses what I asked.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 07:16:00 PM
I think it does. If you expect me to be answer questions about Amy over and above her statement that is being unreasonable. Check Amy's statement. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm "She confirms that she works as head of the Baby Club and Mini Club, the former being for children aged up to eleven months and the latter for children aged between three and five." So she may have had some other experience of a missing child.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 07:20:25 PM
One thing I wanted to ask you sleuths is that the video that Peter Hyatt analyses starts of saying there is never before seen home video and a clue that Madeleine left behind". Does anyone know what the "clue left behind" was? Is it referring to cuddle cat? 30:24 in the first in the series of 3. Where abouts in the original video is the clue?
What was the clue left behind?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 26, 2016, 07:33:56 PM
If you have had a child that carries a comforter around with it you would tend not to photograph that.
I have no idea what point Alice is trying to make but my son had a "cuddledog" that he went to bed with every night for at least the first 8 years of his life, and took on every holiday. We don't have a single photo of them together, so what does this prove?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on November 26, 2016, 07:34:03 PM
I have no idea what point Alice is trying to make but my son had a "cuddledog" that he went to bed with every night for at least the first 8 years of his life, and took on every holiday. We don't have a single photo of them together, so what does this prove?
I think it proves it is something that happened but it wasn't something you would want to photograph.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 07:46:20 PM
He blames the parents for hiding the body. Does he say anything about who staged the abduction scene? Does he go along with Amaral and say the friends were somehow involved too? OK Smithman was seen but was it Madeleine? Who was he? Don't you think she could have been alive and hence hidden inside a house?
They want to find Madeleine first then the rest would follow. What abduction scene? An open window and raised shutters that the McCanns said they saw or that tidy bed? Or was it a bedroom door that kept moving between checks?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 08:44:17 PM
They want to find Madeleine first then the rest would follow. What abduction scene? An open window and raised shutters that the McCanns said they saw or that tidy bed? Or was it a bedroom door that kept moving between checks?
Yes the open window and raised shutters that Amy T confirmed. If it was like Wyatt states these would not be necessary, or were they done to confuse.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 26, 2016, 08:49:55 PM
Yes the open window and raised shutters that Amy T confirmed. If it was like Wyatt states these would not be necessary, or were they done to confuse.
Please explain to me how Amy could see it but not David/Fiona Payne or Dianne Webster who were in apartment 5A before her? Did any of the tapas 7 see an open window and raised shutters? 8 went straight to that apartment from the table when the alarm was raised. Amy's statement doesn't add up.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 26, 2016, 08:59:26 PM
Please explain to me how Amy could see it but not David/Fiona Payne or Dianne Webster who were in apartment 5A before her? Did any of the tapas 7 see an open window and raised shutters? 8 went straight to that apartment from the table when the alarm was raised. Amy's statement doesn't add up.
Amy's statement is written so it is a fact but she could have been on the scene rather early. Even G-unit questioned why the woman in the creche said the missing child was called "Maddie" when the McCanns always called her Madeleine. John doesn't like it when I say there was an earlier incident, but the thought keeps coming that maybe the first incident involved "Maddie" but the creche workers guessed it was Madeleine McCann (as they admit) and so Amy actually went to the "wrong place" in fact but at a fortuitous time to see the 5A apartment as it was when Kate found it. So Amy could have got there before the others had interfered with the shutters and the window. It seems unbelievable but I don't have a better explanation.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 09:51:53 PM
Please explain to me how Amy could see it but not David/Fiona Payne or Dianne Webster who were in apartment 5A before her? Did any of the tapas 7 see an open window and raised shutters? 8 went straight to that apartment from the table when the alarm was raised. Amy's statement doesn't add up.
As I am saying if Wyatt is right someone has to explain who opened the window and the shutters that Kate and Amy write about. If that scene was important to Kate (if she did it) she would have made everyone aware they were like that. Who else could have set the scene?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 26, 2016, 09:59:10 PM
Amy's statement is written so it is a fact but she could have been on the scene rather early. Even G-unit questioned why the woman in the creche said the missing child was called "Maddie" when the McCanns always called her Madeleine. John doesn't like it when I say there was an earlier incident, but the thought keeps coming that maybe the first incident involved "Maddie" but the creche workers guessed it was Madeleine McCann (as they admit) and so Amy actually went to the "wrong place" in fact but at a fortuitous time to see the 5A apartment as it was when Kate found it. So Amy could have got there before the others had interfered with the shutters and the window. It seems unbelievable but I don't have a better explanation.
Was Amy the abductor? Maddy was called that by family and friends long before she went to Luz. Many examples. Gerry had Maddie written on his friends reunited page. They were shouting and searching for Maddy. Amy's statement doesn't fit. The tapas 9 were on the scene first not Amy.
"That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her."
Was Amy the abductor? Maddy was called that by family and friends long before she went to Luz. Many examples. Gerry had Maddie written on his friends reunited page. They were shouting and searching for Maddy. Amy's statement doesn't fit. The tapas 9 were on the scene first not Amy.
"That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her."
Note that happened at 22.05 a time that is stretching it if you think it was the result of Kate's alarm. It could be I just can't tell, and if Gerry called Madeleine Maddie I don't know, I was just repeating what G-unit had said. Charlotte sort of confirms what you say http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm:
Quote
She adds that it was usual for Madeleine to be called "Maddy", as this is how she [Madeleine] presented herself to the witness; - On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy"; - The witness also clarified that the crêche in the complex also offers complementary services allowing parents to leave their children with baby sitters during dinner-time, between the hours of 19H15 and 23H00; - She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared;
It would take a bit of time to walk to the creche at night so when did this other individual get to know about the disappearance of Maggie or Maddy? So if she is telling them at 22.05 when did she get to know about it?
So Charlotte is saying Madeleine called herself "Maddie", But if the alarm is raised by the McCanns what would they call her? What would they call out to her?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 26, 2016, 10:53:06 PM
Note that happened at 22.05 a time that is stretching it if you think it was the result of Kate's alarm. It could be I just can't tell, and if Gerry called Madeleine Maddie I don't know, I was just repeating what G-unit had said. Charlotte sort of confirms what you say http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm: It would take a bit of time to walk to the creche at night so when did this other individual get to know about the disappearance of Maggie or Maddy? So if she is telling them at 22.05 when did she get to know about it?
So Charlotte is saying Madeleine called herself "Maddie", But if the alarm is raised by the McCanns what would they call her? What would they call out to her?
The alarm being raised before 10 would explain it. I believe Matt is right in his around 9:50 (watch?) Kate left to check not 10. That's why the night creche knew about it early after a mother had gone there and informed them about Maddy. That would suggest Smithman was seen after the alarm. The men out searching were calling for Maddy not Kate. She was in the apartment.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 26, 2016, 11:35:59 PM
So knowing when Kate did her check is the important item. I would say plenty have tried to work that out before.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on November 27, 2016, 12:51:27 AM
Haven't you kind of got the message yet that I don't believe your McCann mantra propaganda, which you churn out again and again.
Cue the obvious response.
There is of course the point that the publicity, was simply a ploy, which then escalated with the cooperation of most more members of the press to call people tr##ls, who dared question the McCann's version of events.
... 8(8-)) ... plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ... this from three years ago ...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2040.msg67980#msg67980 ... A "spanner in the works" ???
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 27, 2016, 03:23:36 AM
A blog with a statement analysis by Peter Hyatt was recorded on 2012 http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/statement-analysis-mccann-interview-2011.html It seems very much in line with what he discusses with Richard D Hall so it certainly doesn't appear to be new information.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 27, 2016, 03:33:42 AM
So knowing when Kate did her check is the important item. I would say plenty have tried to work that out before.
Gosh what a difficult topic but one thing is for certain all the Tapas 9 say Kate's check and alarm was after 10:00 PM whereas the OC reception and other staff indicate something happening from 9:15 PM onward. I have not yet discovered what vital fact will determine the true time. I can see one simple solution - the two incident hypothesis. We know that at 9:15 while Gerry is talking to Jez, Jane sees a person carrying an unconscious child past the OC apartments. Was this Madeleine or someone else, this is the real question. Could this be the start of the girl's father reporting a child missing, but as can be seen she wasn't missing for someone had her, and hence this person could have been located real quick and hence no need to invoke the OC missing child procedures for the first incident. We have a sighting and reports of an incident, clearly distinct from the MM missing alert at 10:00. What more do we need?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 27, 2016, 05:52:37 AM
I always feel solving how Jane Tanner can see Jez and Gerry but they don't see Jane will give us the solution to the MM mystery. I have seen a scientific test where a man in a gorilla suit walks through a game and no one notices it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1378228/Didnt-spot-dancing-gorilla-famous-YouTube-video.html play the video and see if you see the gorilla?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 27, 2016, 06:37:28 AM
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 27, 2016, 02:06:06 PM
Hyatt is an absolute prize plonker Anyone with an ounce of intelligence understands that statement analysis is a guide and not an exact science Yet he is convinced of the McCanns involvement in a cover up It seems he knows very little about statement analysis
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 02:25:55 PM
Statement analysis = junk science.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 27, 2016, 02:47:48 PM
"In a sense, Maddie McCann is the UK's version of the Jonbenet Ramsey murder. This coming week, I am asking a team of experienced analysts to jointly work through the language seeking to uncover a single indicator: Was Madeleine McCann a possible victim of sexual abuse. This will be done live on Thursday, November 30th, over a period of 6 hours online. I hope to post the results of this analysis on Friday, December 1st, as well as put together a written report." Peter Hyatt
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 03:10:41 PM
"In a sense, Maddie McCann is the UK's version of the Jonbenet Ramsey murder. This coming week, I am asking a team of experienced analysts to jointly work through the language seeking to uncover a single indicator: Was Madeleine McCann a possible victim of sexual abuse. This will be done live on Thursday, November 30th, over a period of 6 hours online. I hope to post the results of this analysis on Friday, December 1st, as well as put together a written report." Peter Hyatt
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/
Let me get this straight: Hyatt is going to analyse the McCanns' statements to decide whether or not Madeleine was sexually abused and it's going to be done live, on the internet? Jesus wept.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 27, 2016, 03:15:03 PM
Let me get this straight: Hyatt is going to analyse the McCanns' statements to decide whether or not Madeleine was sexually abused and it's going to be done live, on the internet? Jesus wept.
Notice the cost, Alfie. 6 hours out of one's life.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on November 27, 2016, 03:42:45 PM
Why what? Find me any credible scientific research done on the subject that confirms the validity of statement analysis then. Note the word "credible". This Hyatt claims he will be able to deduce whether or not Madeleine was sexually abused by analysing statements made by her parents. Does that sound plausible to you?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on November 27, 2016, 03:57:04 PM
Why what? Find me any credible scientific research done on the subject that confirms the validity of statement analysis then. Note the word "credible". This Hyatt claims he will be able to deduce whether or not Madeleine was sexually abused by analysing statements made by her parents. Does that sound plausible to you?
You said statement analysis = junk science, which is a general comment.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 03:58:29 PM
I won't persuade the credulous who want to believe, but here is a more learned opinion than mine. You'll no doubt find a reason to slag the author off.
I won't persuade the credulous who want to believe, but here is a more learned opinion than mine. You'll no doubt find a reason to slag the author off.
But if it makes the perpetrators confess to crimes they have committed who cares, as long as it works!
That's the same argument for lie detectors. The threat of being made to take one can lead to a confession but they are generally no more reliable than the throw of a dice and can lead to serious cases of miscarriages of justice. Junk science.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 27, 2016, 06:42:13 PM
Let me get this straight: Hyatt is going to analyse the McCanns' statements to decide whether or not Madeleine was sexually abused and it's going to be done live, on the internet? Jesus wept.
That is disgusting.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 27, 2016, 07:57:21 PM
If statement analysis is such a valuable accurate tool then why does hall have to go to the Us to find a reliable expert Is it taught in U.K. Universities..... are there any experts in the U.K. .. is there any research to back it up None Mr Mod used the word gullible to describe those who believe SY What word should be used to describe those who think Hyatt has ANY credibility It isn't a junk science... it's junk
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 27, 2016, 07:58:46 PM
I always feel solving how Jane Tanner can see Jez and Gerry but they don't see Jane will give us the solution to the MM mystery. I have seen a scientific test where a man in a gorilla suit walks through a game and no one notices it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1378228/Didnt-spot-dancing-gorilla-famous-YouTube-video.html play the video and see if you see the gorilla?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Ok
1) From The Carpenters statements we know that there were a number of vehicles parked to the north of the Tapas Reception
2) We have worked out in previous threads from statements that Gerry was standing on the kerb of the western pavement of Rua Dr Francisco G Martins ... more or less at the entrance to the alleyway that runs between block 5 and the Tapas area. He was looking away from anyone walking up the pavement behind him.
3) Jez was standing in the road close to where it meets the kerb, opposite to Gerry. Little traffic there but for safeties sake with his little one in the pushchair, he presumably tucked in close to a parked vehicle .... blocking a good deal of his vision, left and right
4) Jane passes. Somewhere in the statements (I think) she has made it plain that she doesn't care for Gerry too much. Because Gerry is at the entrance to the alleyway and he is right on the kerb, she circles round him a good metre or so behind and as quietly as is possible*** and quietly continues up the road. It is between street lamps and quite dark.
Jane is not looking her usual attractive self, dressed in an overwhelmingly large, almost certainly dark parka / fleece belonging to Russell who is, I think, about 6'4" tall. She was cold. An amorphous shape and quite possibly with a hood up. Please correct me if I am wrong on the height of Russell..
She is the partner to Russell, a consultant, and also has a good position herself, so not short of money. *** Her so called flip-flops could be very expensive evening sandals which do not SLAP on the ground, but are like ordinary sandals sound wise. The sound is not extra ordinary in any way.
Gerry has his back to her, he does not notice her.
Jez has a very small window to see her, because of parked vehicles and also Gerrys large frame in front of him ... and is in any case talking lovingly about his little one looking down at him. He doesn't know Jane and frankly there was nothing about her in Russells parka to make him notice her. He doesn't notice her. She doesn't even register in his brain.
About three years ago Heriberto Janosch gave a very good scientific analysis of ones field of vision. It was surprisingly narrow
She was out of Gerrys field of Vision all the time. Out of Jezes almost all the time, hidden by vehicles as she walked up and passed by .... and then completely out of their Field of Vision as she walked on up the hill. .
Tannerman was beyond either mans 'Field of Vision'
This is just a hypothesis but all the facts except maybe the closeness of the parked cars and the quality of the shoes is in verifyable from various statements. It is entirely feasible
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 27, 2016, 10:32:43 PM
That's the same argument for lie detectors. The threat of being made to take one can lead to a confession but they are generally no more reliable than the throw of a dice and can lead to serious cases of miscarriages of justice. Junk science.
How does the miscarriage of justice follow on from that?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 11:30:48 PM
One polygraph test passed by a suspect led to an additional 44 victims. Reliance on such tests often lead to investigators looking in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on November 28, 2016, 12:13:21 AM
One polygraph test passed by a suspect led to an additional 44 victims. Reliance on such tests often lead to investigators looking in the wrong direction.
Wow !
That certainly puts all ideas of taking these tests on to the back burner.
I would refuse one.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on November 28, 2016, 12:16:15 AM
Polygraphy has no grounding in science because polygraph techniques in use today were developed by interrogators, not scientists, says George Maschke, a former US Army intelligence officer and co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org. "It's dangerous and irresponsible to place any reliance on polygraph outcomes. Polygraphy has not advanced in the way a scientific field would, and that is because it's not a science, it's an interrogation technique. It can be useful in getting confessions, but it is not reliable in and of itself. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22467640
When Gary Leon Ridgway stood up in a Seattle court on Wednesday and admitted 48 counts of aggravated first degree murder he officially became America's most prolific serial killer.
It is not a very good advertisement for the polygraph, or lie detector test.
In 1987 the man suspected of being the Green River Killer took such a test and passed with flying colours. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3243015.stm
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 28, 2016, 12:35:00 AM
Is a polygraph test admissible as evidence?
In virtually every jurisdiction, the answer is a resounding no.
https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31737
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on November 28, 2016, 12:37:27 AM
With respect, that goes nowhere near explaining exactly what 'embedded confessions' purport to be. If a new language is being contrived for us, I for one want access to the vocabulary for it. My preference is for something that has a dictionary definition attached somewhere. You know that boring old stuff meanings ~ synonyms ~ antonyms and all that stuff.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on November 28, 2016, 01:25:37 AM
Hyatt has not used written statement analysis; he has. in fact, used a narrative of random comments which were not made in response to specific questions about the events of that night or the subsequent accusations made against the parents. Nothing has been analysed in context, especially as the words used were spoken 4 years down the line & not a true reflection of initial thoughts & feelings.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 28, 2016, 08:48:50 AM
Hyatt has not used written statement analysis; he has. in fact, used a narrative of random comments which were not made in response to specific questions about the events of that night or the subsequent accusations made against the parents. Nothing has been analysed in context, especially as the words used were spoken 4 years down the line & not a true reflection of initial thoughts & feelings.
Exactly !!
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 28, 2016, 09:01:46 AM
http://www.hyattanalysis.com/
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 28, 2016, 09:12:12 AM
According to the words of the McCanns, Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal. This is most evidenced in that Maddie was "beyond parental concern"; something that parents who know their child is deceased often indicate. This is why so many thousands of people, particularly in the UK, felt strongly that the McCanns were not truthful. Many comments reveal the line of thinking: 'the McCanns are more concerned about themselves than the child...', of which the analysis agrees.
That is all a pack of lies, just shows he knows nothing doesn't it.
Where have the McCann's ever said 'Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal?'
The McCann's have never said that. They have always said their belief is that Madeleine is alive.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 28, 2016, 09:42:15 AM
According to the words of the McCanns, Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal. This is most evidenced in that Maddie was "beyond parental concern"; something that parents who know their child is deceased often indicate. This is why so many thousands of people, particularly in the UK, felt strongly that the McCanns were not truthful. Many comments reveal the line of thinking: 'the McCanns are more concerned about themselves than the child...', of which the analysis agrees.
That is all a pack of lies, just shows he knows nothing doesn't it.
Where have the McCann's ever said 'Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal?'
The McCann's have never said that. They have always said their belief is that Madeleine is alive.
That is his interpretation of the Mccanns non-intended subliminal communications.
As to the Mccanns being only concerned about themselves, yes I agree.
Right from the start.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 28, 2016, 09:47:42 AM
According to the words of the McCanns, Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal. This is most evidenced in that Maddie was "beyond parental concern"; something that parents who know their child is deceased often indicate. This is why so many thousands of people, particularly in the UK, felt strongly that the McCanns were not truthful. Many comments reveal the line of thinking: 'the McCanns are more concerned about themselves than the child...', of which the analysis agrees.
That is all a pack of lies, just shows he knows nothing doesn't it.
Where have the McCann's ever said 'Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal?'
The McCann's have never said that. They have always said their belief is that Madeleine is alive.
If it was true why do you think they would say it?
Who were blamed within hours of her disappearance?
3 May 2007
One hour into the search by holiday makers of the hotel and surrounding areas, about 23.00 hrs, Mr McKenzie approached the McCann's apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment.
He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann's apartment.
He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone.
Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie.
Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared 'she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles'.
He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member.
Mr McKenzie recognises Mr McCann from being in the same holiday complex at the same time..
That is his interpretation of the Mccanns non-intended subliminal communications.
As to the Mccanns being only concerned about themselves, yes I agree.
Right from the start.
How the hell would he get to that conclusion when the McCann's have always said they believe Madeleine is still alive? The man is a nutcase.
As to only thinking about themselves, what do you want them to do, scream and cry that they don't know what is happening to their child? They probably do in private, but when in an interview they are asked certain questions which they answer.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 28, 2016, 09:51:14 AM
If it was true why do you think they would say it?
Who were blamed within hours of her disappearance?
3 May 2007
One hour into the search by holiday makers of the hotel and surrounding areas, about 23.00 hrs, Mr McKenzie approached the McCann's apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment.
He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann's apartment.
He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone.
Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie.
Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared 'she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles'.
He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member.
Mr McKenzie recognises Mr McCann from being in the same holiday complex at the same time..
How the hell would he get to that conclusion when the McCann's have always said they believe Madeleine is still alive? The man is a nutcase.
As to only thinking about themselves, what do you want them to do, scream and cry that they don't know what is happening to their child? They probably do in private, but when in an interview they are asked certain questions which they answer.
He gave his analysis.
I wonder what he would think of your posts on here.
To your second paragraph, the answer is easy, search.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 28, 2016, 09:56:05 AM
According to the words of the McCanns, Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal. This is most evidenced in that Maddie was "beyond parental concern"; something that parents who know their child is deceased often indicate. This is why so many thousands of people, particularly in the UK, felt strongly that the McCanns were not truthful. Many comments reveal the line of thinking: 'the McCanns are more concerned about themselves than the child...', of which the analysis agrees.
That is all a pack of lies, just shows he knows nothing doesn't it.
Where have the McCann's ever said 'Madeleine was not sold into sexual slavery but died in Portugal?'
The McCann's have never said that. They have always said their belief is that Madeleine is alive.
Was that a quote from Hyatt?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on November 28, 2016, 10:06:33 AM
That is his interpretation of the Mccanns non-intended subliminal communications.
As to the Mccanns being only concerned about themselves, yes I agree.
Right from the start.
If they were only concerned about themselves, then surely they would not have taken the children with them in the first place. Plenty of loving relatives at home to take care of them if necessary.
This was a particular type of holiday - which was specificallly designed for both parents and children to be able to enjoy themselves simultaneously, but both doing different things. e.g. the parents could play tennis knowing the children were enjoying themselves at the creche/kiddies club.
There are lots of different types of holiday available - this happened to be the one they chose on this occasion - along with the other holidaymakers who were there doing the same.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 28, 2016, 10:09:37 AM
If they were only concerned about themselves, then surely they would not have taken the children with them in the first place. Plenty of loving relatives at home to take care of them if necessary.
This was a particular type of holiday - which was specificallly designed for both parents and children to be able to enjoy themselves simultaneously, but both doing different things. e.g. the parents could play tennis knowing the children were enjoying themselves at the creche/kiddies club.
There are lots of different types of holiday available - this happened to be the one they chose on this occasion - along with the other holidaymakers who were there doing the same.
What did Gerry Mccann say at the start of the holiday ?
Need i remind you, it was supposed to be a family holiday.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 28, 2016, 10:13:11 AM
I wonder what he would think of your posts on here.
To your second paragraph, the answer is easy, search.
I wonder what he would think of your posts, gleefully posting that you think SY had found nothing, and that they are no nearer finding Madeleine.
When Kate mentioned the distance they were from the apartment, he jumped on this saying she was only thinking about herself. So was April Jones mother just thinking about herself when she said that April was only allowed out to play because she had done well in her report from the teachers? or that Sara Payne was only thinking about herself when she said they weren't far from the Grand parents house?
Lets take what he says about the birth of Madeleine. He didn't like it when Kate says 'then she opened her mouth' he said it was finding fault with Madeleine. How the hell does he come to that conclusion? As a matter of fact they sounded proud to me especially Gerry when he said she was a 'McCann' Everyone who says 'she/he has a good pair of lungs' then, are finding fault with their child are they?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 28, 2016, 10:31:35 AM
I wonder what he would think of your posts, gleefully posting that you think SY had found nothing, and that they are no nearer finding Madeleine.
When Kate mentioned the distance they were from the apartment, he jumped on this saying she was only thinking about herself. So was April Jones mother just thinking about herself when she said that April was only allowed out to play because she had done well in her report from the teachers? or that Sara Payne was only thinking about herself when she said they weren't far from the Grand parents house?
Lets take what he says about the birth of Madeleine. He didn't like it when Kate says 'then she opened her mouth' he said it was finding fault with Madeleine. How the hell does he come to that conclusion? As a matter of fact they sounded proud to me especially Gerry when he said she was a 'McCann' Everyone who says 'she/he has a good pair of lungs' then, are finding fault with their child are they?
Gleefully posting ?
Hardly dear. Merely commenting on the blatantly obvious.
I'm afraid tagging into other cases which bear no comparison doesn't wash.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 28, 2016, 10:35:40 AM
Hardly dear. Merely commenting on the blatantly obvious.
I'm afraid tagging into other cases which bear no comparison doesn't wash.
I would say gleefully as you sometimes put a smiley at the end.
They do wash though don't they? I was giving a comparison how mothers say things as to why what happened to their child wasn't their fault. Kate being near by, she stresses this, not because she is thinking of herself but because she is blaming herself, parents always blame themselves and they are told by professionals not to do this, as one professional said 'children have been taken from their beds with the parents in the house at the time' which is true, also the man who was entering the bedrooms of the children sitting on their bed or getting into bed with them, the parents were in the apartment at the time.
So what about what he says about the birth of Madeleine do you think he is right or wrong?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 28, 2016, 11:03:44 AM
I would say gleefully as you sometimes put a smiley at the end.
They do wash though don't they? I was giving a comparison how mothers say things as to why what happened to their child wasn't their fault. Kate being near by, she stresses this, not because she is thinking of herself but because she is blaming herself, parents always blame themselves and they are told by professionals not to do this, as one professional said 'children have been taken from their beds with the parents in the house at the time' which is true, also the man who was entering the bedrooms of the children sitting on their bed or getting into bed with them, the parents were in the apartment at the time.
So what about what he says about the birth of Madeleine do you think he is right or wrong?
Well what a surprise, you are trying to link otrher cases, where no link has been established.
So what part of the birth of Madeleine are you referring to ?
Provide a cite please.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 28, 2016, 11:20:22 AM
Well what a surprise, you are trying to link otrher cases, where no link has been established.
So what part of the birth of Madeleine are you referring to ?
Provide a cite please.
The link is to what the parents said Stephen, April Jones mother said they only let April go out later than normal because she did well in school, she didn't have to say this did she? It was said not because she was looking to cover herself but because she was feeling guilty and blaming herself, which she had no need to do.
Kate McCann said she was close by the apartment, not because she was covering herself but because she was blaming herself, so not thinking about herself but blaming herself for Madeleine going missing, so she was thinking of Madeleine and not herself, she was guilty.
You listed to the tapes didn't you? He said that because Kate said 'then she opened her mouth' she was finding fault with Madeleine, the link is the tapes, the second one I think. He makes out that they had something against Madeleine from her birth.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on November 28, 2016, 11:29:00 AM
The link is to what the parents said Stephen, April Jones mother said they only let April go out later than normal because she did well in school, she didn't have to say this did she? It was said not because she was looking to cover herself but because she was feeling guilty and blaming herself, which she had no need to do.
Kate McCann said she was close by the apartment, not because she was covering herself but because she was blaming herself, so not thinking about herself but blaming herself for Madeleine going missing, so she was thinking of Madeleine and not herself, she was guilty.
You listed to the tapes didn't you? He said that because Kate said 'then she opened her mouth' she was finding fault with Madeleine, the link is the tapes, the second one I think. He makes out that they had something against Madeleine from her birth.
How does the April Jones case bare relation to the Mccann case ?
The circumstances are entirely different.
Now tell me how do you know whether Hyatt is right or wrong in his assertions ?
Do you know the Mccanns personally ?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 28, 2016, 11:35:34 AM
There is a pun with the last word of the sentence. Let's see if you get it.
Meanwhile I don't claim to make psychic predictions. I leave that to fakes like Acorah. 8((()*/
I'm glad you are not persuaded by fakes. Therefore you won't need to ask why me? It sounded like a prediction when you said "wait and see", but maybe it was really "what will be will be".
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 29, 2016, 12:32:28 AM
Bradley Walsh of the Chase.
An irritating turn of phrase. If you was to win some money tonight, what would you do with it?
Tonight he got two right and two wrong. In the first 2, he said 'If you were to win some money tonight ...' Then he reverted to type and contestants 3 and 4 got ' If you was to win some money tonight ...'
What is Bradley guilty of? I make him guilty of poor English, nothing more.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 29, 2016, 01:37:22 PM
Why what? Find me any credible scientific research done on the subject that confirms the validity of statement analysis then. Note the word "credible". This Hyatt claims he will be able to deduce whether or not Madeleine was sexually abused by analysing statements made by her parents. Does that sound plausible to you?
1: Does this pass muster master?: My current research involves interviewing to detect deception, where the main focus is to elicit information and maximise differences between liars and truth tellers’ accounts. This research is very relevant for detecting how people engaged in ‘high stake’ deception respond verbally and non-verbally in a variety of scenarios . My work involves cooperation with national and international governments and police. I am a member of the European consortium of Psychological Research on Deception Detection (E-prodd). The consortium utilises cutting edge research from laboratories across Europe to optimise the detection of deception in serious crime. 2:That phraseology suggests there are legions of Hyatts but only this one.................................
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 29, 2016, 01:49:37 PM
1: Does this pass muster master?: My current research involves interviewing to detect deception, where the main focus is to elicit information and maximise differences between liars and truth tellers’ accounts. This research is very relevant for detecting how people engaged in ‘high stake’ deception respond verbally and non-verbally in a variety of scenarios . My work involves cooperation with national and international governments and police. I am a member of the European consortium of Psychological Research on Deception Detection (E-prodd). The consortium utilises cutting edge research from laboratories across Europe to optimise the detection of deception in serious crime. 2:That phraseology suggests there are legions of Hyatts but only this one.................................
Why am I not surprised that you are defending this junk science and its proponents. If you think it would be possible to establish whether or not Madeleine had been sexually abused by analysing witness statements then that's your prerogative. Perhaps we could have some independent research that backs up this claim, not a testimonial from a practitioner himself/herself (no link provided so no idea who wrote that)?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 29, 2016, 02:06:51 PM
Why am I not surprised that you are defending this junk science and its proponents. If you think it would be possible to establish whether or not Madeleine had been sexually abused by analysing witness statements then that's your prerogative. Perhaps we could have some independent research that backs up this claim, not a testimonial from a practitioner himself/herself (no link provided so no idea who wrote that)?
I never said anything about sexually abused nordid I say anything about defending junk science. You maitained it was junk science globally before sexual abuse was introduced into the equation. Your comprehension is truly appalling or an attempt to divert. Now don't try to start a flame war, with your customary name calling or nit picking bo.
I never said anything about sexually abused nordid I say anything about defending junk science. You maitained it was junk science globally before sexual abuse was introduced into the equation. Your comprehension is truly appalling or an attempt to divert. Now don't try to start a flame war, with your customary name calling or nit picking bo.
OK, I am in the mood to stick my neck out for the chopping off of the head thereof.
Who is Sharon Leal and is there a connection?
Dr Sharon Leal is lady the layaydy who, using a similar technology,device,junk-science, methodology call it what you will, demonstrated that Drs McCann were/are innocent of any nefarious goings on. It were on t' telly about a year ago or so and features on here somewhere.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 29, 2016, 05:00:35 PM
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 29, 2016, 06:16:50 PM
Dr Sharon Leal is lady the layaydy who, using a similar technology,device,junk-science, methodology call it what you will, demonstrated that Drs McCann were/are innocent of any nefarious goings on. It were on t' telly about a year ago or so and features on here somewhere.
Thank you. I guess I was probably asleep at the time.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on November 29, 2016, 06:37:07 PM
Thank you. I guess I was probably asleep at the time.
I wonder who wrote...
Quote
When people with no axe to grind, but who actually know how to read body-language, like Sharon Leal, declare the McCanns 100% innocent, it's time for those who doubt such notions to sit up and listen.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 29, 2016, 07:01:46 PM
look up "The Lying Game - Crimes That Fooled Britain" does that help?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 29, 2016, 09:33:25 PM
I've heard of Nostradamus but not Old Mother Shipton. You are a hard case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXtygrRW1cI
Old Mother Shipton lived in a cave near Knaresborough in North Yorkshire UK,in the sixteenth century, where she was a prophetess and soothsayer. She apparently predicted email. It could however have been telegraph, or texting or telephone or radio depending on how you choose to interpret "one day thoughts will travel the world in a flash".
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 29, 2016, 10:36:14 PM
Old Mother Shipton lived in a cave near Knaresborough in North Yorkshire UK,in the sixteenth century, where she was a prophetess and soothsayer. She apparently predicted email. It could however have been telegraph, or texting or telephone or radio depending on how you choose to interpret "one day thoughts will travel the world in a flash".
it is a shame she didn't try and market her idea.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 29, 2016, 11:07:34 PM
I never said anything about sexually abused nordid I say anything about defending junk science. You maitained it was junk science globally before sexual abuse was introduced into the equation. Your comprehension is truly appalling or an attempt to divert. Now don't try to start a flame war, with your customary name calling or nit picking bo.
There's nothing wrong with my comprehension skills Alice, you write posts for your own amusement and assume everyone else knows what the hell you're on about. Mostly though I fear your riddle-me-ree nonsense goes over most people's heads.
You responded to a post that I wrote in reply to someone else claiming Hyatt's view that it was possible to tell if Madeleine had been sexually abused by reading her parents' statements. Your response to my post seemed to suggest that the quote you gave (with no link or name) was sufficient to qualify as the independent research on statement analysis that I asked for in my previous post. It didn't and it wasn't.
Try not to let your determination to get one over on me at every opportunity influence the quality and content of your posts. I think you could probably make quite a valuable contribution to the discussion if you just let it go.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on November 29, 2016, 11:25:30 PM
I suspect Hyatt will be "proving" the sexual abuse element using the video of Madeleine in her fairy princess outfit. I think that's the "clue she left behind" Hyatt was referring to.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 29, 2016, 11:34:04 PM
I suspect Hyatt will be "proving" the sexual abuse element using the video of Madeleine in her fairy princess outfit. I think that's the "clue she left behind" Hyatt was referring to.
What?! Only a sick, sick mind could look at that video and see child sex abuse. Seriously.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 29, 2016, 11:35:22 PM
I suspect Hyatt will be "proving" the sexual abuse element using the video of Madeleine in her fairy princess outfit. I think that's the "clue she left behind" Hyatt was referring to.
That wording was in the narration, a female's voice. She said "there was a clue left behind" and never expanded on that. I know I have commented on that video before and I thought the clue was Gerry's controlling nature. He was making the kids say "Yes Daddy" rather than allowing them to say "yeah". But others thought that was OK. I've never ever tried to control my kids like that. Well I don't think so.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 29, 2016, 11:38:32 PM
There's nothing wrong with my comprehension skills Alice, you write posts for your own amusement and assume everyone else knows what the hell you're on about. Mostly though I fear your riddle-me-ree nonsense goes over most people's heads.
You responded to a post that I wrote in reply to someone else claiming Hyatt's view that it was possible to tell if Madeleine had been sexually abused by reading her parents' statements. Your response to my post seemed to suggest that the quote you gave (with no link or name) was sufficient to qualify as the independent research on statement analysis that I asked for in my previous post. It didn't and it wasn't.
Try not to let your determination to get one over on me at every opportunity influence the quality and content of your posts. I think you could probably make quite a valuable contribution to the discussion if you just let it go.
I thought I did in this instance. But to abbreviate and not be abusive or indeed not to try to get one over on you: I find it droll if not paradoxical that with something like a pseudoscience, some will swear by it while others will swear at it depending upon what suits their argument and/or prejudices* at the time. I find pseudo science just that, pseudo, all of the time. The principle has worked for me so I doubt I will change unless.................................
* in the wider sense of the word.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on November 29, 2016, 11:41:17 PM
I thought I did in this instance. But to abbreviate and not be abusive or indeed not to try to get one over on you: I find it droll if not paradoxical that with something like a pseudoscience, some will swear by it while others will swear at it depending upon what suits their argument and/or prejudices* at the time. I find pseudo science just that, pseudo, all of the time. The principle has worked for me so I doubt I will change unless.................................
* in the wider sense of the word.
..... unless the McCanns confess. ..... unless someone confesses.?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 29, 2016, 11:45:28 PM
I think you are on shaky ground (as we are in NZ) when predicting that.
Maybe I am; but ask yourself why, out of all the interviews the McCanns have participated in, Hall/Hyatt chose this particular one. The sceptics are queuing up over on Statement Analysis blogspot to participate in Friday's Q&A session. Maybe they believe Hyatt is going to solve the case which proper policeman haven't cracked in over 9 years.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 30, 2016, 12:43:21 AM
Maybe I am; but ask yourself why, out of all the interviews the McCanns have participated in, Hall/Hyatt chose this particular one. The sceptics are queuing up over on Statement Analysis blogspot to participate in Friday's Q&A session. Maybe they believe Hyatt is going to solve the case which proper policeman haven't cracked in over 9 years.
That will be interesting, for he only knows if he is right when he gets a confession.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 12:48:58 AM
That will be interesting, for he only knows if he is right when he gets a confession.
as therevwill never be a confession...and as the case is very unlikely to be solved...hyatt is safe in the fact that he cannot be proved to be wrong...its called mud slinging...and thats all he is...a mud slinger
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 30, 2016, 01:37:22 AM
as therevwill never be a confession...and as the case is very unlikely to be solved...hyatt is safe in the fact that he cannot be proved to be wrong...its called mud slinging...and thats all he is...a mud slinger
Well I hope to solve the case. Not sure how though. I'm looking to others rather than Kate McCann. How long will it take? How long is a piece of string? Have I got the time and energy?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 30, 2016, 08:21:54 AM
I thought I did in this instance. But to abbreviate and not be abusive or indeed not to try to get one over on you: I find it droll if not paradoxical that with something like a pseudoscience, some will swear by it while others will swear at it depending upon what suits their argument and/or prejudices* at the time. I find pseudo science just that, pseudo, all of the time. The principle has worked for me so I doubt I will change unless.................................
* in the wider sense of the word.
I don't swear by junk or pseudo science ANY of the time, so whoever your post is aimed at, it surely ain't me.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on November 30, 2016, 08:24:34 AM
as therevwill never be a confession...and as the case is very unlikely to be solved...hyatt is safe in the fact that he cannot be proved to be wrong...its called mud slinging...and thats all he is...a mud slinger
Exactly right. That's one reason why this case is so attractive to most "sceptics" - they know that the chances of them ever being proven wrong once and for all are very slim indeed, so can continue to doubt and question safe in the knowledge that they will never have to eat their words.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 08:33:35 AM
I thought I did in this instance. But to abbreviate and not be abusive or indeed not to try to get one over on you: I find it droll if not paradoxical that with something like a pseudoscience, some will swear by it while others will swear at it depending upon what suits their argument and/or prejudices* at the time. I find pseudo science just that, pseudo, all of the time. The principle has worked for me so I doubt I will change unless.................................
* in the wider sense of the word.
you seem to be joining the ranks of the mud slingers.........you should provide a cite for belief in junk science rather than make baseless accusations against nameless posters
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on November 30, 2016, 09:30:27 AM
you seem to be joining the ranks of the mud slingers.........you should provide a cite for belief in junk science rather than make baseless accusations against nameless posters
Post #154.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on November 30, 2016, 10:04:59 AM
You know that. I know that. I just think I can see exactly where Hyatt will be attempting to turn an innocent video snippet into something far darker.
Yes he will, maybe also the 'make up' photo that some pour over all the time, an innocent photo, yet some will turn it into something else. Quite sickening imo.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on November 30, 2016, 10:13:12 AM
I remember watching that interview at the time and remarking that my sympathies were with the janitor because as the last person to see Holly and Jessica he would be an immediate suspect in whatever had happened to them and would be under close investigation until eliminated.
As it worked out it took a while to find the evidence to bring him to trial ... helped by Carr's forensic cleaning of what we now know was the crime scene.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 30, 2016, 01:04:05 PM
..... unless the McCanns confess. ..... unless someone confesses.?
.
Too narrow limits I am afraid.
Take the situation with "statement analysis"or whatever you wish to call it. Dr Leal is, according to the website I linked, currently a research fellow still researching "interviewing to detect deception". She was obviously confident enough of her research a year ago or so to appear on telly to state in her opinion Drs McCann were innocent. Mr Hyatt it would seem, using basically similar techniques, is prepared to appear on telly stating the opposite opinion. So from the same "dataset" we have two diametrically opposed propositions from two practitioners who are prepared to stick their heads up. Until we are up around 91% of "experts" in agreement based on the same dataset, the beyond reasonable doubt threshold in English courts, then I would suggest what we are looking at is no better in practical terms than the investigating officers "gut feeling". I'll change my mind when we reach the 91%.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 30, 2016, 01:09:35 PM
you seem to be joining the ranks of the mud slingers.........you should provide a cite for belief in junk science rather than make baseless accusations against nameless posters
Would you care to show: 1 Precisely where I have slung mud. 2 I don't belive in junk science sohow can I provide a cite for my belief in it. 3. The baseless accusation I have made against a nameless poster. Thanking you in anticipation
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 01:16:50 PM
Would you care to show: 1 Precisely where I have slung mud. 2 I don't belive in junk science sohow can I provide a cite for my belief in it. 3. The baseless accusation I have made against a nameless poster. Thanking you in anticipation
You have claimed posters on here on both sides are prepared to believe in junk science when it suits them...I only see the sceptics wanting to accept junk as that is basically all they have..... could you point out where we supporters are quoting junk science to show the McCanns innocence We don't have to
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 01:23:00 PM
I remember watching that interview at the time and remarking that my sympathies were with the janitor because as the last person to see Holly and Jessica he would be an immediate suspect in whatever had happened to them and would be under close investigation until eliminated.
As it worked out it took a while to find the evidence to bring him to trial ... helped by Carr's forensic cleaning of what we now know was the crime scene.
Always and unfailingly a laudable trait to accord benefit of doubt, even if, in the long run, it turns out you are mistaken to do so.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 30, 2016, 02:00:29 PM
You have claimed posters on here on both sides are prepared to believe in junk science when it suits them...I only see the sceptics wanting to accept junk as that is basically all they have..... could you point out where we supporters are quoting junk science to show the McCanns innocence We don't have to
This what I posted: "I find it droll if not paradoxical that with something like a pseudoscience, some will swear by it while others will swear at it depending upon what suits their argument and/or prejudices* at the time".
Now let's play "spot the word poster", but before we do perhaps you will be courteous enough to address the other matters raised in my earlier post. Thanking you again in anticipation.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 03:12:39 PM
This what I posted: "I find it droll if not paradoxical that with something like a pseudoscience, some will swear by it while others will swear at it depending upon what suits their argument and/or prejudices* at the time".
Now let's play "spot the word poster", but before we do perhaps you will be courteous enough to address the other matters raised in my earlier post. Thanking you again in anticipation.
So who are you referring to as "some" Are you saying your post has no relevance to posters on here
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on November 30, 2016, 04:29:07 PM
You have claimed posters on here on both sides are prepared to believe in junk science when it suits them...I only see the sceptics wanting to accept junk as that is basically all they have..... could you point out where we supporters are quoting junk science to show the McCanns innocence We don't have to
#154
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 30, 2016, 04:44:17 PM
Take the situation with "statement analysis"or whatever you wish to call it. Dr Leal is, according to the website I linked, currently a research fellow still researching "interviewing to detect deception". She was obviously confident enough of her research a year ago or so to appear on telly to state in her opinion Drs McCann were innocent. Mr Hyatt it would seem, using basically similar techniques, is prepared to appear on telly stating the opposite opinion. So from the same "dataset" we have two diametrically opposed propositions from two practitioners who are prepared to stick their heads up. Until we are up around 91% of "experts" in agreement based on the same dataset, the beyond reasonable doubt threshold in English courts, then I would suggest what we are looking at is no better in practical terms than the investigating officers "gut feeling". I'll change my mind when we reach the 91%.
They might be achieving that already if they looked at the same material. Hyatt looked at only one interview, and applied criteria that was mostly applicable for the first week or so of the disappearance. We aren't going to get a confession if one analyst says guilty and the other innocent are we. I agree with you on this one.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on November 30, 2016, 05:03:41 PM
I remember watching that interview at the time and remarking that my sympathies were with the janitor because as the last person to see Holly and Jessica he would be an immediate suspect in whatever had happened to them and would be under close investigation until eliminated.
As it worked out it took a while to find the evidence to bring him to trial ... helped by Carr's forensic cleaning of what we now know was the crime scene.
I felt the same as you about him, but when little Sharon Matthews went missing, I instantly knew her mum, Karen Matthews, was lying. Dont know what it was but I suspect there was an almost imperceptible quiver at the end of her mouth that I thought that i noticed ... and maybe this was the reason? Seemed to me as tho' she was supressing a smile that she "had got away with it". There was something wrong there.
I wonder how it is that some can lie so ably, yet others cannot? - Maybe some were brought up as liars so very practised and accomplished? - Maybe some are killers without remorse . Are they called sociopaths? They can lie because they feel no guilt?
Dunno, but I doubt the absolute veracity of so called 'scientific' tests to see if people are lying or telling the truth.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 30, 2016, 05:10:38 PM
I felt the same as you about him, but when little Sharon Matthews went missing, I instantly knew her mum, Karen Matthews, was lying. Dont know what it was but I suspect there was an almost imperceptible quiver at the end of her mouth that I thought that i noticed ... and maybe this was the reason? Seemed to me as tho' she was supressing a smile that she "had got away with it". There was something wrong there.
I wonder how it is that some can lie so ably, yet others cannot? - Maybe some were brought up as liars so very practised and accomplished? - Maybe some are killers without remorse . Are they called sociopaths? They can lie because they feel no guilt?
Dunno, but I doubt the absolute veracity of so called 'scientific' tests to see if people are lying or telling the truth.
Body language is a tad different to statement analysis. A person can practice overcoming body language movements.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 05:25:48 PM
Body language is a tad different to statement analysis. A person can practice overcoming body language movements.
statement analysis can offer clues and indicate futher investigation is indicated....it is not an exact science....the fact that i realise this and Hyatt doesn't shows I know more about it than he does
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 30, 2016, 06:13:34 PM
statement analysis can offer clues and indicate futher investigation is indicated....it is not an exact science....the fact that i realise this and Hyatt doesn't shows I know more about it than he does
Oh really! Do you really think so?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 30, 2016, 06:25:18 PM
One analyst said if you don't believe someone just say "Oh really". That's why I tried it out on you.
you are not really making any sense but I can tell alot from analysing your statements. You posted you expect to solve the case....i think that tells us a lot about you
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 30, 2016, 10:19:01 PM
you are not really making any sense but I can tell alot from analysing your statements. You posted you expect to solve the case....i think that tells us a lot about you
I've done it before so let's try it again.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 02, 2016, 02:37:48 PM
This from Mr Hyatt's blog.
"Friday, December 2, 2016
Live Discussion: Madeleine McCann Disappearance Today
Today at 12PM Eastern Time (NY Time), we will host a Q & A Discussion on the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
This will be by invitation to "Go To Meeting" and will allow for both Question and Answers about:
Analysis of the case;
Statement Analysis principles and training opportunities."
Perhaps I am being cynical, but this seems to be phrased as a marketing venture. I wonder how the invitation part works. Let me see, 12pm in NY should be around 5am here. I'm not up for 6 hours of this. I will wait for the summaries.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 02, 2016, 02:53:21 PM
Live Discussion: Madeleine McCann Disappearance Today
Today at 12PM Eastern Time (NY Time), we will host a Q & A Discussion on the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
This will be by invitation to "Go To Meeting" and will allow for both Question and Answers about:
Analysis of the case;
Statement Analysis principles and training opportunities."
Perhaps I am being cynical, but this seems to be phrased as a marketing venture. I wonder how the invitation part works. Let me see, 12pm in NY should be around 7am here. I'm not up for 6 hours of this. I will wait for the summaries.
you've got your time zones mixed up
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 02, 2016, 03:16:03 PM
Good one, Slarti. I wuz just trying to be helpful. Robbity needs help.
I know about ORLY; but she did say "Oh Really" and I try and be quote perfect. The thought of help was rather interesting, also another double meaning word, but I do know you meant no harm.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on December 02, 2016, 05:11:48 PM
I felt the same as you about him, but when little Sharon Matthews went missing, I instantly knew her mum, Karen Matthews, was lying. Dont know what it was but I suspect there was an almost imperceptible quiver at the end of her mouth that I thought that i noticed ... and maybe this was the reason? Seemed to me as tho' she was supressing a smile that she "had got away with it". There was something wrong there.
I wonder how it is that some can lie so ably, yet others cannot? - Maybe some were brought up as liars so very practised and accomplished? - Maybe some are killers without remorse . Are they called sociopaths? They can lie because they feel no guilt?
Dunno, but I doubt the absolute veracity of so called 'scientific' tests to see if people are lying or telling the truth.
I realised the man knew nothing as soon as he went on about the McCann's 'finding fault' with Madeleine when she was born, because Kate said 'then she opened her mouth' meaning probably that she screamed loudly. They sounded pleased about it in my opinion, especially when Gerry said she was a 'McCann'. The way Hyatt said it, he made it sound sinister as though they had it in for Madeleine from the day she was born. God help anyone who says 'she/he has a strong pair of lungs' to the parents of a new born baby.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 02, 2016, 05:35:07 PM
I realised the man knew nothing as soon as he went on about the McCann's 'finding fault' with Madeleine when she was born, because Kate said 'then she opened her mouth' meaning probably that she screamed loudly. They sounded pleased about it in my opinion, especially when Gerry said she was a 'McCann'. The way Hyatt said it, he made it sound sinister as though they had it in for Madeleine from the day she was born. God help anyone who says 'she/he has a strong pair of lungs' to the parents of a new born baby.
Something else then.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on December 02, 2016, 10:50:10 PM
Has anyone observed/participated in the Q&A session held by Hyatt & able to report back anything of interest to us?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 12:10:29 AM
I realised the man knew nothing as soon as he went on about the McCann's 'finding fault' with Madeleine when she was born, because Kate said 'then she opened her mouth' meaning probably that she screamed loudly. They sounded pleased about it in my opinion, especially when Gerry said she was a 'McCann'. The way Hyatt said it, he made it sound sinister as though they had it in for Madeleine from the day she was born. God help anyone who says 'she/he has a strong pair of lungs' to the parents of a new born baby.
His conclusion is the same as Goncalo Amaral.
Q – What are the points, that you believe, implicate the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter?
A – The first thing is that they always defended the theory of the abduction. The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and it is impossible for the girl to have left that way. We worked in the apartment and the window was closed. The parents have always argued that the girl was alive and they were the first to raise that Maddie could be dead.
Q – You talk about inconsistencies in the statements about the monitoring system. The book also indicates that the nine people who had dinner together drank an average of eight bottles of wine, four of red and four of white. Isn’t there the possibility that, between the disappearance and the alcohol, they were confused and that they did not remember the exact minutes in which they watched the children?
A – Okay, but then there is the window where we found Kate’s finger prints, the mother of the girl. She said that she had never touched that window, and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day. And above all she said that the window was open when it was closed, it doesn’t add up.
Q – Would it be possible that the mother or the father closed the window later, when returning to the room to search for the girl?
A – There are three people who say that they walked in front of the apartment and saw the window closed. They did not state that it was open? Which left? And there are other things. The mother says that she entered the room and the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated an abduction. They wanted us to say that someone entered the apartment with the intention of theft and when they saw the girl they killed her.
Gonçalo Amaral: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine’s corpse on the Beach El Mundo SILVIA TAULÉS 06 September 2008
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 03, 2016, 01:15:01 AM
Q – What are the points, that you believe, implicate the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter?
A – The first thing is that they always defended the theory of the abduction. The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and it is impossible for the girl to have left that way. We worked in the apartment and the window was closed. The parents have always argued that the girl was alive and they were the first to raise that Maddie could be dead.
Q – You talk about inconsistencies in the statements about the monitoring system. The book also indicates that the nine people who had dinner together drank an average of eight bottles of wine, four of red and four of white. Isn’t there the possibility that, between the disappearance and the alcohol, they were confused and that they did not remember the exact minutes in which they watched the children?
A – Okay, but then there is the window where we found Kate’s finger prints, the mother of the girl. She said that she had never touched that window, and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day. And above all she said that the window was open when it was closed, it doesn’t add up.
Q – Would it be possible that the mother or the father closed the window later, when returning to the room to search for the girl?
A – There are three people who say that they walked in front of the apartment and saw the window closed. They did not state that it was open? Which left? And there are other things. The mother says that she entered the room and the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated an abduction. They wanted us to say that someone entered the apartment with the intention of theft and when they saw the girl they killed her.
Gonçalo Amaral: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine’s corpse on the Beach El Mundo SILVIA TAULÉS 06 September 2008
Last Amaral answer is baloney.
Heriberto Janosch analysed the situation very well. In order to reach any of the front doors in block 5 one had to walk across the car park from its entrance to the pathway that ran along the front of the building. This pathways entrance was at the centre of the block. It was necessary to walk part of the path to reach a hallway with all the apartments except 5a coming off it.
So all the Tapas group using their front doors, which they all did except Kate and Gerry, had to walk diagonally across the car park to the end of the pathway at the centre of the building before being able to access their front door
With the scienfically accepted maximum angle of vision, as specified by Heri, whether walking across the car park to the centre of block 5 or walking back, the window to Madeleines bedroom was always beyond the accepted maximum angle of vision.
No wonder nobody noticed an open window... it was beyond their vision !
Amaral made a massive booboo of it.
ETA: And what is more, none of them said that they saw the window closed.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 03, 2016, 01:23:01 AM
Heriberto Janosch analysed the situation very well. In order to reach any of the front doors in block 5 one had to walk across the car park from its entrance to the pathway that ran along the front of the building. This pathways entrance was at the centre of the block. It was necessary to walk part of the path to reach a hallway with all the apartments except 5a coming off it.
So all the Tapas group using their front doors, which they all did except Kate and Gerry, had to walk diagonally across the car park to the end of the pathway at the centre of the building before being able to access their front door
With the scienfically accepted maximum angle of vision, as specified by Heri, whether walking across the car park to the centre of block 5 or walking back, the window to Madeleines bedroom was always beyond the accepted maximum angle of vision.
No wonder nobody noticed an open window... it was beyond their vision !
Amaral made a massive booboo of it.
ETA: And what is more, none of them said that they saw the window closed.
Now let's look at Amarals first answer.
Quote
His conclusion is the same as Goncalo Amaral.
Q – What are the points, that you believe, implicate the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter?
A – The first thing is that they always defended the theory of the abduction. The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and it is impossible for the girl to have left that way. We worked in the apartment and the window was closed. The parents have always argued that the girl was alive and they were the first to raise that Maddie could be dead.
This is the same booboo. He got it wrong.
Pity that Amaral didn't have a Masters in Criminology same as Heriberto Janosch. Maybe he would have got things right then?
So this answer by Amaral is a nonsense too
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 01:32:11 AM
Matt Oldfield, Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien could see it from entering the car park - Matt's apartment was next to 5A. Nobody saw raised shutters. If Matt looked at his window he would have seen an open window next to it.
Heri's theory of an abductor lifting her from the outside is fantasy land. The abductor is trapped in the corridor and easily seen by a person or vehicle entering that car park.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 03, 2016, 02:01:22 AM
This is question two to Amaral, with his answer
Quote
Q – You talk about inconsistencies in the statements about the monitoring system. The book also indicates that the nine people who had dinner together drank an average of eight bottles of wine, four of red and four of white. Isn’t there the possibility that, between the disappearance and the alcohol, they were confused and that they did not remember the exact minutes in which they watched the children?
A – Okay, but then there is the window where we found Kate’s finger prints, the mother of the girl. She said that she had never touched that window, and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day. And above all she said that the window was open when it was closed, it doesn’t add up.
Any so called inconsistencies are well within the norm. When different people recount their recollections, such is inevitable. It would be very suspicious if they all had identical recollections
Now the bottles of wine. My understanding is that they were all inclusive, meaning they got 8 bottlesan allocation of wine with their meal. Wine waiter Ricardo Oliveira states that he served two bottles of white and two bottles of red between 9 of them ... and that was a typical amount each evening.
-snip- He states that on that night, after having received the orders, he went into the bar. Immediately, he put two white wine and two red wine bottles, along with a bottle of water, on the table. He cannot be sure that he served more wine that night. The appetiser/starters were served by one of his colleagues. After 25 to 30 minutes, it was the witness who served the main dishes. -snip-
and
-snip- When they were all together, the group sat at the table, he took their orders, including the starters. As already mentioned, on this occasion, he would immediately take two white and two red bottles of wine and one bottle of water to the table. Their main courses would normally be ready 25 to 30 minutes after their order? a time they used to consume the starters. After starters, the group would normally spend about 15 minutes finishing the main course. Generally, during dinner, he would serve four bottles of wine (two white and two red), which the group completely consumed. On that day, he did not serve any more wine. It was also normal for certain members of the group to order dessert. After this, they would normally stay at the table until after 23H00 but would always leave before 00H00, the time when the bar closed. One or more of them, on another night, asked for an after-dinner drink. He remembers this clearly because they asked for Amareto and the bar did not stock it. -snip-
Four bottles of wine, between 9 people, over a meal and two and a half hours, is very moderate. On occasions some had a cocktail before the meal. Even with a cocktail, none were going to be anything like drunk, when taken with a meal over such a period of time.
Why did Amaral say that they had drunk 8 bottles of wine that night? .... when it was only 4 bottles ... which was their normal amount for a whole evening
Why?
Did he make another mistake? .... or was he making it up?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 03, 2016, 02:08:30 AM
Matt Oldfield, Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien could see it from entering the car park - Matt's apartment was next to 5A. Nobody saw raised shutters. If Matt looked at his window he would have seen an open window next to it.
Heri's theory of an abductor lifting her from the outside is fantasy land. The abductor is trapped in the corridor and easily seen by a person or vehicle entering that car park.
PFinder, you are wrong.
They would set their eyes on the light at the end of the pathway , which was in the middle of the building and as they walked in that direction would only needc to look at the lighted area. People do not move their heads and have a good look around into darkness, they look at the bright spots in the direction they are moving. Madeleines window was right at the edge and beyond their periferal vision when taking the shortest route across the car park. Full stop.
That is true in both directions.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 02:35:49 AM
You are wrong. There's a street light there. That's the light Matt saw coming into the bedroom.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 03, 2016, 03:05:56 AM
The street lights were heavily masked by the heads of the trees around the car aprk.
But they are irrelevant to the field of vision.
The field of vision of someone walking to the centre of the building was too narrow to see Madeleines window. Full stop.
Especially in the dark one looks the way one is going ... and also towards light rather than darkness. People do not look at the 'scenery' in the dark
So what do the police do at night, or security guards or sentry duty soldiers? I think when you have the task of checking you do look in all directions. Well you are supposed to.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 03, 2016, 03:14:02 AM
So what do the police do at night, or security guards or sentry duty soldiers? I think when you have the task of checking you do look in all directions. Well you are supposed to.
They were not doing a police /security guard check outside FGS. Just a check to make sure their kids were sleeping peacefully
Nigh Night.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 03:16:47 AM
Q – What are the points, that you believe, implicate the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter?
A – The first thing is that they always defended the theory of the abduction. The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and it is impossible for the girl to have left that way. We worked in the apartment and the window was closed. The parents have always argued that the girl was alive and they were the first to raise that Maddie could be dead.
Q – You talk about inconsistencies in the statements about the monitoring system. The book also indicates that the nine people who had dinner together drank an average of eight bottles of wine, four of red and four of white. Isn’t there the possibility that, between the disappearance and the alcohol, they were confused and that they did not remember the exact minutes in which they watched the children?
A – Okay, but then there is the window where we found Kate’s finger prints, the mother of the girl. She said that she had never touched that window, and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day. And above all she said that the window was open when it was closed, it doesn’t add up.
Q – Would it be possible that the mother or the father closed the window later, when returning to the room to search for the girl?
A – There are three people who say that they walked in front of the apartment and saw the window closed. They did not state that it was open? Which left? And there are other things. The mother says that she entered the room and the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated an abduction. They wanted us to say that someone entered the apartment with the intention of theft and when they saw the girl they killed her.
Gonçalo Amaral: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine’s corpse on the Beach El Mundo SILVIA TAULÉS 06 September 2008
All I can say is he hasn't read all the statements. Amy Tierney states she saw the window open and the shutters up.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 03:19:56 AM
Q – What are the points, that you believe, implicate the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter?
A – The first thing is that they always defended the theory of the abduction. The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and it is impossible for the girl to have left that way. We worked in the apartment and the window was closed. The parents have always argued that the girl was alive and they were the first to raise that Maddie could be dead.
Q – You talk about inconsistencies in the statements about the monitoring system. The book also indicates that the nine people who had dinner together drank an average of eight bottles of wine, four of red and four of white. Isn’t there the possibility that, between the disappearance and the alcohol, they were confused and that they did not remember the exact minutes in which they watched the children?
A – Okay, but then there is the window where we found Kate’s finger prints, the mother of the girl. She said that she had never touched that window, and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day. And above all she said that the window was open when it was closed, it doesn’t add up.
Q – Would it be possible that the mother or the father closed the window later, when returning to the room to search for the girl?
A – There are three people who say that they walked in front of the apartment and saw the window closed. They did not state that it was open? Which left? And there are other things. The mother says that she entered the room and the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated an abduction. They wanted us to say that someone entered the apartment with the intention of theft and when they saw the girl they killed her.
Gonçalo Amaral: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine’s corpse on the Beach El Mundo SILVIA TAULÉS 06 September 2008
Well surprise, surprise.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 10:08:38 AM
All I can say is he hasn't read all the statements. Amy Tierney states she saw the window open and the shutters up.
The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act. (Chapter 22 TOTL)
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 10:42:00 AM
The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act. (Chapter 22 TOTL)
Yes you could open and close the window in a matter of seconds and raise the blinds in 20 seconds I'd imagine, so one could always say that. I felt Amy arrived much earlier than that, so how did you put a time on it? I want to see how you establish a time?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 03, 2016, 10:43:48 AM
The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act. (Chapter 22 TOTL)
The open window and shutters were Kate and Gerry's 'proof' that an intruder had been in 5A. If it was pre-planned and 'staged' - then the one thing they would have made absolutely sure of - was that people SAW the open windows/shutters. They would both have to be extremely stupid not to realise that. IMO
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 10:45:46 AM
The open window and shutters were Kate and Gerry's 'proof' that an intruder had been in 5A. If it was pre-planned and 'staged' - then the one thing they would have made absolutely sure of - was that people SAW the open windows/shutters. They would both have to be extremely stupid not to realise that. IMO
Who's fingerprints were found on the window? That is evidence not belief.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 10:46:56 AM
Yes you could open and close the window in a matter of seconds and raise the blinds in 20 seconds I'd imagine, so one could always say that. I felt Amy arrived much earlier than that, so how did you put a time on it? I want to see how you establish a time?
Emma Knight was first OC staff to apartment 5A at around 10:20 (Kate/Fiona present) so Amy was after.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 10:49:54 AM
Who's fingerprints were found on the window? That is evidence not belief.
All that shows to me is that the person who opened the window was careful and wore gloves maybe or used the edges of the curtain to push the window, or to wipe their own fingerprints off the places they had touched.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 10:53:42 AM
Who's fingerprints were found on the window? That is evidence not belief.
If it was preplanned - then they would have made sure there was no fingerprints on the window. They were not daft.
IMO the prints showed that Kate had put her hand on the window whilst leaning out. People don't normally open sliding windows by pushing the pane across with their hands - they use the handle or whatever is there for that purpose.
She may even have touched the window on day one when they closed the shutters. AFAIK There is no evidence that the windows were cleaned after that and IMO windows would only be cleaned after their departure and before new guests arrived.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 10:58:45 AM
If it was preplanned - then they would have made sure there was no fingerprints on the window. They were not daft.
IMO the prints showed that Kate had put her hand on the window whilst leaning out. People don't normally open sliding windows by pushing the pane across with their hands - they use the handle or whatever is there for that purpose.
She may even have touched the window on day one when they closed the shutters. AFAIK There is no evidence that the windows were cleaned after that and IMO windows would only be cleaned after their departure and before new guests arrived.
They said the window was open but none of the group witnessed it.
TPN: What did you find at the apartment?
GA: No signs of forced entry. There were no signs of glove marks on the window.
Amy was at the night creche after the alarm was raised. If you think she was first on the scene then you are wrong. DW said Kate was alone. EK was sent to 5A to talk to the missing parents and get a description of the missing child not Amy. EK found Kate and Fiona there. Men were out searching.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 11:11:22 AM
Amy was at the night creche after the alarm was raised. If you think she was first on the scene then you are wrong. DW said Kate was alone. EK was sent to 5A to talk to the missing parents and get a description of the missing child not Amy. EK found Kate and Fiona there. Men were out searching.
You are wrong. Emma Knight states "
Quote
At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.
So that means Amy has already been there by that time. EK is sent to 5A by John Hill later and he wasn't notified till 10:28 PM.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 11:20:11 AM
"I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed."
At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
So around 22:20 is my timeline when EK arrived at apartment 5A.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 11:26:10 AM
"I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed."
At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
So around 22:20 is my timeline when EK arrived at apartment 5A.
OK that is Emma Knight but we were talking originally about Amy Tierney.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 11:48:20 AM
OK that is Emma Knight but we were talking originally about Amy Tierney.
Amy was at the night creche when the call was made so it was not possible for her to be in 5A before that time. DW went there first - Kate alone. Fiona went next - EK found Kate and Fiona - nobody else.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: G-Unit on December 03, 2016, 12:44:06 PM
Amy was at the night creche when the call was made so it was not possible for her to be in 5A before that time. DW went there first - Kate alone. Fiona went next - EK found Kate and Fiona - nobody else.
DW and Fiona saw no open window or shutters.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on December 03, 2016, 05:31:48 PM
Amy was at the night creche when the call was made so it was not possible for her to be in 5A before that time. DW went there first - Kate alone. Fiona went next - EK found Kate and Fiona - nobody else.
You are making that up. Amy was at the night creche when the tourist came in and reported that a girl called Maddie was missing. The staff deduced it was Madeleine McCann so Amy went to the apartment. It was before any phone calls were made.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 07:14:10 PM
Who are these others? Why did they tamper with evidence?
I think it is possible to find out who did this but I haven't done so as yet. The "why did they tamper with evidence?" question is a bit more problematic for it would depend on foreknowledge. If we analysed their statements we might pick up on foreknowledge . Have you got spare months/years to devote to that task?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 08:28:15 PM
You are making that up. Amy was at the night creche when the tourist came in and reported that a girl called Maddie was missing. The staff deduced it was Madeleine McCann so Amy went to the apartment. It was before any phone calls were made.
BS! DW said Kate was alone no Amy. Fiona came next no Amy so unless can provide one piece of evidence (which you can't!) to back any of this up I would drop it. The window was closed when the police arrived. The first two GNR officers on the scene didn't belive the McCanns abduction claim.
"At the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed." DW 11 May 2007
You haven't got one member of the group saying they saw the window open have you?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 08:34:08 PM
BS! DW said Kate was alone no Amy. Fiona came next no Amy so unless can provide one piece of evidence (which you can't!) to back any of this up I would drop it. The window was closed when the police arrived. The first two GNR officers on the scene didn't belive the McCanns abduction story.
"At the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed." DW 11 May 2007
You haven't got one member of the group saying they saw the window open have you?
Dianne Webster remained at the table. It was when Dianne Webster was still at the table that I propose Amy went to the apartment. Don't you believe that Dianne Webster stayed behind. So I say you are still wrong on the timing.
By the time DW goes to the apartment the window may well have been closed, but the logic of that must mean that Amy T arrived there and had already left before Dianne Webster appeared in the apartment. How can anything be any more evident than that?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 08:39:38 PM
Dianne Webster remained at the table. It was when Dianne Webster was still at the table that I propose Amy went to the apartment. Don't you believe that Dianne Webster stayed behind. So I say you are still wrong on the timing.
DW didn't stay at the table for long. David told her to leave after checking the tapas area and she went straight to 5A where she found Kate alone. The mother was probably arriving at the night creche a bit later where Amy was working so she wasn't at 5A. Not one of the tapas group saw it open so how can Amy see it open? Her statement doesn't fit with the facts.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 08:42:15 PM
DW didn't stay at the table for long. David told her to leave after checking the tapas area and she went straight to 5A where she found Kate alone. The mother was probably arriving at the night creche around that time if she was quick where Amy was so she wasn't there until later.
Still enough time for Amy to come and go. And you reckon that David told her to leave the table? Where was that? In her statement only I suppose?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 03, 2016, 08:47:12 PM
The night creche is a good distance away. If she did she would have been seen by others e.g. DW or FP.
That doesn't mean you should believe the Paynes and disbelieve the McCanns. Does Gerry say he saw the window open and the shutters up? Does Kate say she saw the window open and the shutters up? Does Amy T say she saw the window open and the shutters up?
Now are you saying the Paynes say nothing about this but later Dianne Webster makes a point they are down. That does not prove anything but definitely allows for the possibility that someone lowered the shutters and closed the window before DW turned up.
Do DW or FP mention Emma Knight? Check it. If they don't mention EK why would they mention AmyT?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 09:02:39 PM
You can't be sure of that, and even if they had would they mention it in their statements?
Emma is mentioned by Fiona but from that you can't tell when she arrived.
Quote
Reply 'Gerry was coming and going. Dave came in and, erm, he came in initially with me, erm, when I went to Kate, I don't think he went in any of the bedrooms, I think he was just mainly in the living room trying to put together what they should all be doing really, he was talking more to Gerry, so he was in. I didn't see Russell or any of the other group in, in Kate and Gerry's apartment. Fairly soon after, erm, a girl called Emma, who, I don't know what her position in MARK WARNER was, she was sort of, erm, tut, I don't know what you call them, she was mainly working at the reception area, just as a, erm, tut, I don't know what you call her job title, she was sort of looking after everybody'.
1485 'Just one of the travel assistants or something, yeah''
Reply 'Yeah. Erm, huh, I mean, I don't know what time she got there, it seemed quite early on, she was, she was in the room for the most part, it was me, Emma and Kate with Gerry and Dave sort of to'ing and fro'ing until the first lot of Police arrived'.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 03, 2016, 10:01:49 PM
But Fiona accepts that the window was open http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
Quote
when Kate, the night when we came back and Madeleine was gone, and I think that was something that had, erm, there had been some discussion about, because she'd, the door had slammed, erm, when she'd gone in, had slammed shut, and she'd gone back to look, thinking she'd left the French doors open and, in fact, they were shut and she thought, well where's the breeze coming from, and it was then that she'd opened the door to realise that the window was open and that's why the door had slammed'.
Quote
'At that point, Gerry, I don't think was in the apartment, it was mainly Kate. And Kate was just, huh, utter disbelief and I had disbelief, thinking she's got to be here, you know, what, how can this have happened. And by that point Kate was already saying that the, what she'd found when she'd gone back, which was that the, she'd found the window open and the shutter open and she was convinced at that point that somebody had taken, taken Madeleine and that's what she was telling me and I was like 'They can't have done. They can't have done this', you know. And I looked, I looked throughout the whole apartment and I looked in all the cupboards, under the drawers, under the beds, behind the curtains, everywhere, erm, just, you know, trying to, knowing it had already been done, but you just do. Erm, tut, I looked, when I went into the room that Madeleine was sleeping in, the room was dark, Madeleine, erm, Madeleine's bed was sort of folded back, the sheets, quite kind of neatly really, erm, Sean and Amelie were fast asleep in their cots, they didn't stir, you know, I was opening the cupboards in the room and moving around the room, they didn't stir at all, which that was, that was odd. Erm, we were trying to ascertain whether Madeleine could have got out, and I've already said earlier the shutters were very heavy, and I was almost trying to convince Kate that she could have opened the shutter and climbed out, although knowing that wasn't a likely thing, but at that point we were just trying to pacify Kate in that Madeleine was going to be alright. Erm, and I, I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room, we went, I went to the front of the house and I was trying to lift the shutter at the, at the back, just to prove whether, you know, whether it could have been opened and whether Madeleine could have opened it from the inside'.
She never says Kate was wrong about the windows and shutters.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 04, 2016, 10:55:20 AM
Emma is mentioned by Fiona but from that you can't tell when she arrived.
I can from her statement. She received a call at 22:17 and went straight to 5A to get a description of the missing child for the search. Only Kate and Fiona being there fits with the statements and the time. Later at 22:30 Pamela Fenn was speaking to Gerry on the balcony. When Emma arrived Gerry wasn't there. Fiona said Emma because she was first OC staff to arrive at 5A - not Amy.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 04, 2016, 10:53:53 PM
Deleted.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 04, 2016, 11:29:31 PM
I can from her statement. She received a call at 22:17 and went straight to 5A to get a description of the missing child for the search. Only Kate and Fiona being there fits with the statements and the time. Later at 22:30 Pamela Fenn was speaking to Gerry on the balcony. When Emma arrived Gerry wasn't there. Fiona said Emma because she was first OC staff to arrive at 5A - not Amy.
You are making it up again - "Fiona said Emma because she was first OC staff to arrive at 5A" that is disputed as there were times Fiona was talking to Jane so she wasn't there all the time.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 12:32:12 AM
From memory, I think that Diane Webster said after waiting at the tapas restaurant, she went back to their apartment. Then she decided to go to 5A, where she tried the shutters. So some little time, or maybe longer, was wasted before she went to 5A.
Someone will correct me if i have this wrong.
Your wish is granted Sadie 8(0(*
Asked about the reaction of other members of the group when they heard the above from KATE, the witness says that everyone, except the witness, left the restaurant and went to the apartment of the couple McCANN in order to find out what was going on.
In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN.
In that apartment she found that KATE was completely in panic, in "state of shock ".
Dave did come back to the table and say can, can you just go back to the apartment, but all this is very, very, very vague and I know when I left the table I went, I did go into err Kate and Gerry’s err apartment, which was just absolute err just terrible.”
You are making it up again - "Fiona said Emma because she was first OC staff to arrive at 5A" that is disputed as there were times Fiona was talking to Jane so she wasn't there all the time.
Amy was at the night creche so wouldn't have been there before Fiona. Dianne was there before Fiona and said Kate was alone. Amaral in correct - Amy would have been there later - 10:25 onwards.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 05, 2016, 01:32:19 AM
Asked about the reaction of other members of the group when they heard the above from KATE, the witness says that everyone, except the witness, left the restaurant and went to the apartment of the couple McCANN in order to find out what was going on.
In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN.
In that apartment she found that KATE was completely in panic, in "state of shock ".
Dave did come back to the table and say can, can you just go back to the apartment, but all this is very, very, very vague and I know when I left the table I went, I did go into err Kate and Gerry’s err apartment, which was just absolute err just terrible.”
Amy was at the night creche so wouldn't have been there before Fiona. Dianne was there before Fiona and said Kate was alone. Amaral in correct - Amy would have been there later - 10:25 onwards.
Why are you blaming Amaral now? You are wrong. Check that Fiona talks to Jane so she must leave the McCann's apartment at some stage. It could be while fiona is out that Amy spends a few minutes there assessing the situation. While fiona is out she does not know who came there. Maybe we need to check Kate's statement.
"Dianne was there before Fiona and said Kate was alone." That might be the exact time she is visiting Jane.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 08:54:49 AM
Why are you blaming Amaral now? You are wrong. Check that Fiona talks to Jane so she must leave the McCann's apartment at some stage. It could be while fiona is out that Amy spends a few minutes there assessing the situation. While fiona is out she does not know who came there. Maybe we need to check Kate's statement.
"Dianne was there before Fiona and said Kate was alone." That might be the exact time she is visiting Jane.
Amaral is correct. You have no evidence of Amy being there before Emma Knight at around 22:20. DW was 10 minutes in 5A according to her the first time (Kate alone) and then Fiona went in around 22:10 (DW saw her the second time she went in after collecting things from the table including the McCanns camera).
"At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment.
The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA, not remembering any other people that were there."
22:00 DW enters 5A - Kate alone 22:09 DW leaves and goes to the table to collect things 22:10 Around the same time Fiona enters 5A after sending Matt to call the police - Kate alone 22:20 Emma Knight arrives and finds Kate and Fiona at 5A
No Amy. Unless you can provide evidence to support it then you are wrong!
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 09:38:54 AM
Amaral is correct. You have no evidence of Amy being there before Emma Knight at around 22:20. DW was 10 minutes in 5A according to her the first time (Kate alone) and then Fiona went in around 22:10 (DW saw her the second time she went in after collecting things from the table including the McCanns camera).
"At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment.
The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA, not remembering any other people that were there."
22:00 DW enters 5A - Kate alone 22:09 DW leaves and goes to the table to collect things 22:10 Around the same time Fiona enters 5A after sending Matt to call the police - Kate alone 22:20 Emma Knight arrives and finds Kate and Fiona at 5A
No Amy. Unless you can provide evidence to support it then you are wrong!
I have Amy's statement that is evidence.
Are you trying to tell me Dianne entered the apartment even before Fiona did? I just find that surprising and I have never considered that before. Have I understood you correctly on that?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 09:50:51 AM
Are you trying to tell me Dianne entered the apartment even before Fiona did? I just find that surprising and I have never considered that before. Have I understood you correctly on that?
Dianne entered 5A first when the others were searching - Kate was alone with the twins. Fiona was with the men searching until she told Matt to go and call the police and then she entered 5A at around 10:10 where she again found Kate alone with the twins. The men were out searching.
1485 'So having got back from your search around the corner, did you go then straight into the McCANN's''
Reply 'Yeah'.
1485 'What did you see when you walked in, describe it''
Reply 'At that point, Gerry, I don't think was in the apartment, it was mainly Kate. And Kate was just, huh, utter disbelief and I had disbelief, thinking she's got to be here, you know, what, how can this have happened. And by that point Kate was already saying that the, what she'd found when she'd gone back, which was that the, she'd found the window open and the shutter open and she was convinced at that point that somebody had taken, taken Madeleine and that's what she was telling me and I was like 'They can't have done. They can't have done this', you know. And I looked, I looked throughout the whole apartment and I looked in all the cupboards, under the drawers, under the beds, behind the curtains, everywhere, erm, just, you know, trying to, knowing it had already been done, but you just do. Erm, tut, I looked, when I went into the room that Madeleine was sleeping in, the room was dark, Madeleine, erm, Madeleine's bed was sort of folded back, the sheets, quite kind of neatly really, erm, Sean and Amelie were fast asleep in their cots, they didn't stir, you know, I was opening the cupboards in the room and moving around the room, they didn't stir at all, which that was, that was odd. Erm, we were trying to ascertain whether Madeleine could have got out, and I've already said earlier the shutters were very heavy, and I was almost trying to convince Kate that she could have opened the shutter and climbed out, although knowing that wasn't a likely thing, but at that point we were just trying to pacify Kate in that Madeleine was going to be alright. Erm, and I, I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room, we went, I went to the front of the house and I was trying to lift the shutter at the, at the back, just to prove whether, you know, whether it could have been opened and whether Madeleine could have opened it from the inside'.
1485 'And''
Reply 'I mean, it was fairly obviously, I think, that that wasn't what had happened and what could have happened'.
1485 'So what did you do, walk out of the apartment and round the other side then''
Reply 'No, I'.
1485 'Or did you do it from the inside''
Reply 'I did it from, I'm talking about, so, again, the back or the front, I did it from the back, which is where their balcony was'.
When Emma Knight arrived she only found Kate and Fiona at 5A.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 10:45:56 AM
This proves Amy wasn't at 5A before 10:20. She made the call to Lyndsay from the night creche after the mother informed them of Maddy's disappearance.
She advised the aforementioned individual (mother who heard shouting for Maddy - PF) that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared;
At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
1. Mother arrives at night creche and informs them of Maddy's disappearance 2. Amy calls her supevisor Lyndsay Johnson (crecehe manager) and informs her 3. Lyndsay calls the hotel manager Emma Knight at 22:17 4. Emma goes straight to 5A to get a description of Madeleine for the search
Amaral is correct.
The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act. (Chapter 22 TOTL)
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: G-Unit on December 05, 2016, 11:00:34 AM
This proves Amy wasn't at 5A before 10:20. She made the call to Lyndsay from the night creche after the mother informed them of Maddy's disappearance.
She advised the aforementioned individual (mother who heard shouting for Maddy - PF) that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared;
At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
1. Mother arrives at night creche and informs them of Maddy's disappearance 2. Amy calls her supevisor Lyndsay Johnson (crecehe manager) and informs her 3. Lyndsay calls the hotel manager Emma Knight at 22:17 4. Emma goes straight to 5A to get a description of Madeleine for the search
How did Amy see the open window and shutters? No-one else did because Gerry had closed them.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 11:04:33 AM
She must have got there before Gerry closed them. Kate in her book says "everyone sprinted back to our apartment" What does that mean? She then tells us not Dianne nor Jane. Page 95 Does Gerry admit to closing the shutters?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 05, 2016, 11:13:15 AM
She must have got there before Gerry closed them. Kate in her book says "everyone sprinted back to our apartment" What does that mean? She then tells us not Dianne nor Jane. Page 95 Does Gerry admit to closing the shutters?
This is what Gerry states 4th of May
Quote
Immediately the group rapidly went to the club, "searched all the accommodations/lodgings, swimming pool, tennis courts, etc. and the apartment, with the help of staff "at the same time that they contacted the authorities who would come to put in an appearance."
So immediately there was staff there.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
in Gerry's second statement he admits closing the shutters.
Quote
----- The deponent ran to the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment. ----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. They continued with searches outside around the various apartment blocks, the deponent having asked MATHEW who went to the secondary reception
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 12:37:47 PM
This is what Gerry states 4th of May So immediately there was staff there.
Where are the staff statements to back this up immediately after the alarm was raised? Tapas staff were first to notice the table was empty apart from Dianne. The night creche staff including Amy were at work. They can't be immediately at 5A when phone calls happened AFTER a mother arrived and informed them.
You need to get a proper timeline not a mess. That statement is not a proper timeline.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 01:10:11 PM
Amy had been there and rang lyndsay from her office at the Tapas Bar and then the phone calls started. I'm including all the statements. You are ignoring Amy's.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: G-Unit on December 05, 2016, 02:43:35 PM
She must have got there before Gerry closed them. Kate in her book says "everyone sprinted back to our apartment" What does that mean? She then tells us not Dianne nor Jane. Page 95 Does Gerry admit to closing the shutters?
As Dianne and Fiona didn't see them open he must have closed them before 10.10pm. Amy was still at the night creche then.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 05, 2016, 02:46:26 PM
Somehow I can't get passed the idea that they might never actually have been open.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 06:45:01 PM
Prove that please? So me how you calculated that please?
G-unit or anyone else, game enough, can you prove G-unit's claim: "As Dianne and Fiona didn't see the [window] open he [Gerry] must have closed them before 10.10pm. Amy was still at the night creche then"?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 05, 2016, 07:31:51 PM
We'll have less of the Liars all round, if you don't mind.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 07:39:41 PM
We'll have less of the Liars all round, if you don't mind.
Fair enough. I've set myself a very high standard. I will never lie so hopefully you won't have any issues from me.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 08:17:21 PM
Who is going to prove "Amy was still at the night creche then [at 10:10 PM]" Did you know I think this is the one thing that unravels the mystery. How could Amy be at the McCann's apartment seemingly even before Kate returns to the Tapas Restaurant? The files seem to show that is the case and the fact there is a distance between the Reception building and the apartment 5A makes it even harder to explain away.
If this is the case when Kate left to tell the T9 about Madeleine's disappearance Amy was still in the apartment so she hadn't left the twins on their own.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 08:32:57 PM
Kate McCann: My memory of that evening, it’s really vivid
Not at night when she found Madeleine missing. Evening is when someone allegedly called with many contradictions. Yeah really vivid.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 05, 2016, 08:38:04 PM
My, my, how you do love to brandish the word liar about. Just accept that not everyone believes the McCann version of events as gospel.
Depends what you mean by 'as gospel'.
I think most sensible people accept that human memory is fallible.
But fallibility in recounting a sequence of events, particularly as stressful as the abduction of Madeleine, is never going to be exact, from person to person, and will be always be subject to the fluctuations of (imperfect) memory-recall, person to person.
I think real detectives understand that.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 05, 2016, 09:40:12 PM
I think most sensible people accept that human memory is fallible.
But fallibility in recounting a sequence of events, particularly as stressful as the abduction of Madeleine, is never going to be exact, from person to person, and will be always be subject to the fluctuations of (imperfect) memory-recall, person to person.
I think real detectives understand that.
I'm sorry Ferry... that is so not the case at all. That day/night will be embedded in their memory. They will remeber everything without thinking, because that is such an important evening-unless they were so drunk and can't recall. They do remember, they just don't want us to know what they remember because they have tried to re write the events.
1. Kate does not remember why DP paid a visit- was he in or out the apartment and for how long 2. Gerry doesn't recall why he asked DP to check on Kate 3. DP doesn't recall why he went to the apartment , how long he was there for , was he inside or out side, or what Kate was wearing ( a towel just out a shower) but recalls and mentions seeing THREE angels all happy. children.
4.none of the Tapas could remember what times they checked children- but claiming a fool proof aliby for each other 5 Kate and Gerry couldn't recall if Maddie was on top of the bed or snuggled up under the covers
Kate did recall the exact positioning of the door by the last time she moved it a few hours before... Jane could not recall the pyjamas description on the 'abducted child' to the police that night, but remembered after speaking to Kate and Gerry that they matched Maddies.
Knowing and telling the truth does not require a good memory.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 05, 2016, 11:37:15 PM
I think most sensible people accept that human memory is fallible.
But fallibility in recounting a sequence of events, particularly as stressful as the abduction of Madeleine, is never going to be exact, from person to person, and will be always be subject to the fluctuations of (imperfect) memory-recall, person to person.
I think real detectives understand that.
You're absolutely right. I watched a programme tonight about the shooting of Mark Duggan and one of the talking heads (a forensic psychologist I think) reiterated the fallibility and fragility of human memory and how in times of high stress it can becoming almost elastic. Fact is, witness statements are always going to be inaccurate to some degree.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: xtina on December 06, 2016, 12:24:43 AM
You're absolutely right. I watched a programme tonight about the shooting of Mark Duggan and one of the talking heads (a forensic psychologist I think) reiterated the fallibility and fragility of human memory and how in times of high stress it can becoming almost elastic. Fact is, witness statements are always going to be inaccurate to some degree.
not a mother..................it would be played in your mind like a video ....over and over and over again....
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 06, 2016, 12:28:27 AM
You're absolutely right. I watched a programme tonight about the shooting of Mark Duggan and one of the talking heads (a forensic psychologist I think) reiterated the fallibility and fragility of human memory and how in times of high stress it can becoming almost elastic. Fact is, witness statements are always going to be inaccurate to some degree.
So how did they get the evening so messed up but not the position of the bedroom door that night. I noticed the door had moved so I thought I'd best look inside. So if it wasn't for a door what were they doing in there? I thought it was to check on their children not move doors.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 06, 2016, 12:33:37 AM
not a mother..................it would be played in your mind like a video ....over and over and over again....
But a video doesn't record the actions of the camera operator person or any other others in the room unless it is panned around onto the other people present, so it is a narrow but accurate view of what is happening but the context of the memory could be wrong. The focus could be too narrow. Zoomed in too much.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 06, 2016, 01:07:41 AM
There are some interesting lectures on statement analysis here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84qJYjsCSE
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 06, 2016, 01:16:44 AM
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 06, 2016, 03:26:32 AM
It is very similar to what I was listening to before, actually the other site is easier to listen to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84qJYjsCSE 4 parts to the lecture.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 06, 2016, 05:00:09 AM
When I listen to his analysis of the McCann case I keep thinking he is relying on hindsight to a large extent. It would be interesting to see a case from the beginning. The thought of hindsight detracts from my respect for Hyatt. I would like to apply his techniques to some of the other witnesses.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 06, 2016, 08:49:35 AM
I'm sorry Ferry... that is so not the case at all. That day/night will be embedded in their memory. They will remeber everything without thinking, because that is such an important evening-unless they were so drunk and can't recall. They do remember, they just don't want us to know what they remember because they have tried to re write the events.
1. Kate does not remember why .... ...... paid a visit- was he in or out the apartment and for how long 2. Gerry doesn't recall why he asked .... ...... to check on Kate 3. .... ...... doesn't recall why he went to the apartment , how long he was there for , was he inside or out side, or what Kate was wearing ( a towel just out a shower) but recalls and mentions seeing THREE angels all happy. children.
4.none of the Tapas could remember what times they checked children- but claiming a fool proof aliby for each other 5 Kate and Gerry couldn't recall if Maddie was on top of the bed or snuggled up under the covers
Kate did recall the exact positioning of the door by the last time she moved it a few hours before... Jane could not recall the pyjamas description on the 'abducted child' to the police that night, but remembered after speaking to Kate and Gerry that they matched Maddies.
Knowing and telling the truth does not require a good memory.
The other big problem is that is a natural human reaction to fill in the gaps in an individual's memory with what is logical and what they have been told.
not a mother..................it would be played in your mind like a video ....over and over and over again....
Perhaps you could provide a cite to some independent study which proves that mothers' memories of a traumatic event involving their children are completely infallible, like a video recording.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 06, 2016, 09:08:10 AM
You're absolutely right. I watched a programme tonight about the shooting of Mark Duggan and one of the talking heads (a forensic psychologist I think) reiterated the fallibility and fragility of human memory and how in times of high stress it can becoming almost elastic. Fact is, witness statements are always going to be inaccurate to some degree.
Fallibility of memory is not a welcome fact to some sceptics in the McCann case.
I have posted the following many times, but AFAIK no sceptic has ever 'acknowledged them'. They would much rather believe that discrepancies in statements mean that someone must be lying - and therefore are proof of deception.
QUOTE: from police officer interviewing JT:
4078 “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”. Unquote.
Quote from Steve Retford.
In a crime situation memory is influenced by many factors such as stress, the presence of a weapon and even just the desire to help police solve the crime.
"Police know how fallible the memory can be," says Steve Retford, a former head of the investigative skills unit at GMP and now specialist interviewing adviser with the force.
"They also know this is usually not through mischievousness on the part of the witnesses, but through stress and shock."
Take the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot at Stockwell Tube station in 2005 by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber.
Eyewitnesses said he had vaulted a ticket barrier when running away from the police. In fact it was later shown by CCTV that Mr Menezes had walked through the barriers, having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving. End quote
AIMHO
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 06, 2016, 09:19:20 AM
Fallibity of memory is not a welcome fact to some sceptics in the McCann case.
I have posted the following many times, but AFAIK no sceptic has ever 'acknowledged them'. They would much rather believe that discrepancies in statements mean that someone must be lying - and therefore are proof of deception.
QUOTE: from police officer interviewing JT:
4078 “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”. Unquote.
Quote from Steve Retford.
In a crime situation memory is influenced by many factors such as stress, the presence of a weapon and even just the desire to help police solve the crime.
"Police know how fallible the memory can be," says Steve Retford, a former head of the investigative skills unit at GMP and now specialist interviewing adviser with the force.
"They also know this is usually not through mischievousness on the part of the witnesses, but through stress and shock."
Take the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot at Stockwell Tube station in 2005 by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber.
Eyewitnesses said he had vaulted a ticket barrier when running away from the police. In fact it was later shown by CCTV that Mr Menezes had walked through the barriers, having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving. End quote
AIMHO
Which eyewitnesses ?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 06, 2016, 09:41:27 AM
Fallibility of memory is not a welcome fact to some sceptics in the McCann case.
I have posted the following many times, but AFAIK no sceptic has ever 'acknowledged them'. They would much rather believe that discrepancies in statements mean that someone must be lying - and therefore are proof of deception.
QUOTE: from police officer interviewing JT:
4078 “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”. Unquote.
Quote from Steve Retford.
In a crime situation memory is influenced by many factors such as stress, the presence of a weapon and even just the desire to help police solve the crime.
"Police know how fallible the memory can be," says Steve Retford, a former head of the investigative skills unit at GMP and now specialist interviewing adviser with the force.
"They also know this is usually not through mischievousness on the part of the witnesses, but through stress and shock."
Take the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot at Stockwell Tube station in 2005 by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber.
Eyewitnesses said he had vaulted a ticket barrier when running away from the police. In fact it was later shown by CCTV that Mr Menezes had walked through the barriers, having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving. End quote
AIMHO
Romancers....................... ?{)(**
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 06, 2016, 03:46:18 PM
Knowing and telling the truth does not require a good memory.
I missed this earlier. I would contend that knowing and telling the truth does require a good memory. Concocting lies requires an even better memory, because you have to remember both the lie, and the 'truth' of the lie.
And getting it plain and simple wrong because it has not registered on your brain or you are filling in or ... That's the easy bit. Because your brain/memory is evolution-designed to dump trivia.
My 'favourite' statement is Aoife's. She knows what she knows (and the facts check out). Plus she is clear about what she doesn't know. I wonder what she is like in real life?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Angelo222 on December 06, 2016, 03:56:58 PM
I missed this earlier. I would contend that knowing and telling the truth does require a good memory. Concocting lies requires an even better memory, because you have to remember both the lie, and the 'truth' of the lie.
And getting it plain and simple wrong because it has not registered on your brain or you are filling in or ... That's the easy bit. Because your brain/memory is evolution-designed to dump trivia.
My 'favourite' statement is Aoife's. She knows what she knows (and the facts check out). Plus she is clear about what she doesn't know. I wonder what she is like in real life?
Am I right in thinking that Martin Smith is the only member of the extended family who were in PdL the night Maddie disappeared who has spoken to the media about the man they came across carrying a child? It would be interesting to hear what Aoife has to say about it all, I wish she would join up here and post.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 06, 2016, 05:09:07 PM
Am I right in thinking that Martin Smith is the only member of the extended family who were in PdL the night Maddie disappeared who has spoken to the media about the man they came across carrying a child? It would be interesting to hear what Aoife has to say about it all, I wish she would join up here and post.
Did she not post on Not Bennet's Cess Pit and get blown out?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: xtina on December 08, 2016, 02:55:18 PM
maybe better to read it then.........
I want to consider parts of what he said, and then to compare his opinion with what other researchers have discovered. There is a remarkable coincidence.
To start with Hyatt explains the importance of detecting hesitation or a disruption of the normal pattern of speech. Some people are naturally fluent, some have less articulacy. It is the disruption of the normal pattern which is important.
He goes on to explain that answering a question with another question may indicate an attempt to buy time, as will searching for a word. The inclusion of unnecessary words and phrases, and particularly of going into unnecessary detail may also assume importance.
He then looks at a full transcript of the interview by SN TV channel in Australia with Gerry and Kate McCann in 2011
PH: "Deceptive people, who have Guilty knowledge of what happened to their child don’t want to talk about it, because it causes internal stress - so they talk for a great deal of time about what happened beforehand" Film 1 21:00
He was then asked specifically if this was scientific or his opinion, and replied: "If I say I believe someone, or I don’t believe someone - as a Statement Analyst - it is my opinion and here’s WHY I have this opinion. I’m going to explain why" 1 27:39
"When someone speaks we presuppose that everything they are telling us is the truth - unless they talk us out of it, deceiving us. What they say in detail can reveal what happened." 1 27:57
He then develops the idea of the ‘need to persuade’ and narrative building. He refers to the McCanns’ emphasising that it was a normal evening, and comments: “Why do you have to convince me that is was a normal evening”
Statement analysis says more about what one doesn’t say.
He listens to further extracts from the interview and says: “Who are they most concerned about. Madeleine, or themselves ? They are always justifying themselves.” 1 43:20
FILM 2
PH: "They give a lot of detail, but not about Madeline, about themselves. What happened is limited to a finite number of things . . . When someone tells us what didn’t happen, there can be an infinite number of things. We are on high alert for deception." 2 3:10
He then watches and listens to the ‘whooshing curtains’ story. Hyatt describes this as narrative building and having considered this whole story he says “She’s Lying. This is deception” 2 35
In a powerful statement he says of Kate’s story about what happened when she visited the apartment - "The room just magically opened itself up and said “Look, look at the evidence . . .” She’s lying. This tells us Madeleine was not kidnapped.” 2 41:10
A little later he is discussing Gerry’s reported reaction to Kate’s returning to the Tapas bar, which includes the phrase “She can’t be . . .” before he stops himself Hyatt fills it in for us “Can’t be . . . - What ? . . . Dead ?” 2 45:18
Gerry continues “And I was saying to Kate as we were both running” PH: "He has a need to persuade that both were in earnest, both were upset, both were in emergency mode. Because they weren’t. Those who are in emergency mode don’t need to tell us they're in emergency mode, and they certainly don’t need to persuade us. He has a need to persuade us that they were in emergency mode. This tells us that this was not unexpected. This was not an emergency." Richard: "He’s lying.” 2 45:40
The three films are highly recommended viewing. It is also instructive to view the original interview in full after having seen the analyst at work.
Some Observations
It has been established that Peter Hyatt, although he was aware of the Madeleine McCann case, had not looked at it in any depth. He was unaware of the research and analysis of the weather and wind charts for the week in question. He did not know of the details in the Tapas 7’s statements, nor of their rogatory interviews. He did not know of the lack of evidence of violent gusts of wind. He was unaware of the body of evidence that begins to suggest that whatever happened to Madeleine probably happened on the Sunday evening to Monday morning.
He was unaware of the work done around the few available photos.
He worked purely with the content of the interview. In other words - He worked purely with what the McCanns told him during the interview
Those who have researched or followed the developments in this case will pick up immediately on Gerry’s comment in the interview where he states “We loved to photograph her, and she loved to be photographed”.
The fact that for the entire week’s holiday only three credible photos seem to exist of Madeleine, or indeed of the twins, is something which has been commented on before. The lack of photos is itself a considerable pointer towards a deliberate decision NOT to take them.
What we are left with is a remarkable coincidence between what Hyatt found, for example on examination of the story about the slamming doors and whooshing curtains., and exactly this same conclusion reached independently. (See Chapter 12, Floppy Sunhat and Flapping Curtains, and many threads on CMoMM.)
Hyatt did not know of the work that has been done, and of the many photos of the 'McCanns' body language during their public interviews. (Appended.)
He did not know that the McCanns had changed both their first Police statements in several material particulars.
He did not know of the Rogatory interviews with the Tapas 7.
He did not know that these professional people, all University graduates, many with post graduate qualifications, some whom routinely teach and profess their own specialism, and who all may, therefore, be assumed to be reasonably at ease with the English Language, to be reasonably articulate, to use normal grammar and syntax, and who would be expected to possess a wide and deep vocabulary . . . . were reduced to gibbering incoherence when they were faced with an English police officer, speaking English and asking a pertinent question in English.
He was working from the transcript of one short interview.
He did not know all the rest.
BUT HE WILL NOW.
Refs:
McCanns’ Australia TV interview
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 08, 2016, 04:41:03 PM
Am I right in thinking that Martin Smith is the only member of the extended family who were in PdL the night Maddie disappeared who has spoken to the media about the man they came across carrying a child? It would be interesting to hear what Aoife has to say about it all, I wish she would join up here and post.
Do we know beyond doubt that Aoife (whom I recall as a poster here) is the same Aoife as Martin Smith's daughter?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on December 08, 2016, 05:03:18 PM
I want to consider parts of what he said, and then to compare his opinion with what other researchers have discovered. There is a remarkable coincidence.
To start with Hyatt explains the importance of detecting hesitation or a disruption of the normal pattern of speech. Some people are naturally fluent, some have less articulacy. It is the disruption of the normal pattern which is important.
He goes on to explain that answering a question with another question may indicate an attempt to buy time, as will searching for a word. The inclusion of unnecessary words and phrases, and particularly of going into unnecessary detail may also assume importance.
He then looks at a full transcript of the interview by SN TV channel in Australia with Gerry and Kate McCann in 2011
PH: "Deceptive people, who have Guilty knowledge of what happened to their child don’t want to talk about it, because it causes internal stress - so they talk for a great deal of time about what happened beforehand" Film 1 21:00
He was then asked specifically if this was scientific or his opinion, and replied: "If I say I believe someone, or I don’t believe someone - as a Statement Analyst - it is my opinion and here’s WHY I have this opinion. I’m going to explain why" 1 27:39
"When someone speaks we presuppose that everything they are telling us is the truth - unless they talk us out of it, deceiving us. What they say in detail can reveal what happened." 1 27:57
He then develops the idea of the ‘need to persuade’ and narrative building. He refers to the McCanns’ emphasising that it was a normal evening, and comments: “Why do you have to convince me that is was a normal evening”
Statement analysis says more about what one doesn’t say.
He listens to further extracts from the interview and says: “Who are they most concerned about. Madeleine, or themselves ? They are always justifying themselves.” 1 43:20
FILM 2
PH: "They give a lot of detail, but not about Madeline, about themselves. What happened is limited to a finite number of things . . . When someone tells us what didn’t happen, there can be an infinite number of things. We are on high alert for deception." 2 3:10
He then watches and listens to the ‘whooshing curtains’ story. Hyatt describes this as narrative building and having considered this whole story he says “She’s Lying. This is deception” 2 35
In a powerful statement he says of Kate’s story about what happened when she visited the apartment - "The room just magically opened itself up and said “Look, look at the evidence . . .” She’s lying. This tells us Madeleine was not kidnapped.” 2 41:10
A little later he is discussing Gerry’s reported reaction to Kate’s returning to the Tapas bar, which includes the phrase “She can’t be . . .” before he stops himself Hyatt fills it in for us “Can’t be . . . - What ? . . . Dead ?” 2 45:18
Gerry continues “And I was saying to Kate as we were both running” PH: "He has a need to persuade that both were in earnest, both were upset, both were in emergency mode. Because they weren’t. Those who are in emergency mode don’t need to tell us they're in emergency mode, and they certainly don’t need to persuade us. He has a need to persuade us that they were in emergency mode. This tells us that this was not unexpected. This was not an emergency." Richard: "He’s lying.” 2 45:40
The three films are highly recommended viewing. It is also instructive to view the original interview in full after having seen the analyst at work.
Some Observations
It has been established that Peter Hyatt, although he was aware of the Madeleine McCann case, had not looked at it in any depth. He was unaware of the research and analysis of the weather and wind charts for the week in question. He did not know of the details in the Tapas 7’s statements, nor of their rogatory interviews. He did not know of the lack of evidence of violent gusts of wind. He was unaware of the body of evidence that begins to suggest that whatever happened to Madeleine probably happened on the Sunday evening to Monday morning.
He was unaware of the work done around the few available photos.
He worked purely with the content of the interview. In other words - He worked purely with what the McCanns told him during the interview
Those who have researched or followed the developments in this case will pick up immediately on Gerry’s comment in the interview where he states “We loved to photograph her, and she loved to be photographed”.
The fact that for the entire week’s holiday only three credible photos seem to exist of Madeleine, or indeed of the twins, is something which has been commented on before. The lack of photos is itself a considerable pointer towards a deliberate decision NOT to take them.
What we are left with is a remarkable coincidence between what Hyatt found, for example on examination of the story about the slamming doors and whooshing curtains., and exactly this same conclusion reached independently. (See Chapter 12, Floppy Sunhat and Flapping Curtains, and many threads on CMoMM.)
Hyatt did not know of the work that has been done, and of the many photos of the 'McCanns' body language during their public interviews. (Appended.)
He did not know that the McCanns had changed both their first Police statements in several material particulars.
He did not know of the Rogatory interviews with the Tapas 7.
He did not know that these professional people, all University graduates, many with post graduate qualifications, some whom routinely teach and profess their own specialism, and who all may, therefore, be assumed to be reasonably at ease with the English Language, to be reasonably articulate, to use normal grammar and syntax, and who would be expected to possess a wide and deep vocabulary . . . . were reduced to gibbering incoherence when they were faced with an English police officer, speaking English and asking a pertinent question in English.
He was working from the transcript of one short interview.
He did not know all the rest.
BUT HE WILL NOW.
Refs:
McCanns’ Australia TV interview
Can I just say that the interviews that Hyatt watched were weeks, months after the event.
If he was analysing a statement given straight after the event, then I might take notice about what Gerry says 'when we were running' Hyatt said Gerry has to tell us he was in emergency mode, I doubt if he would even have mentioned it in a statement straight after the even, actually he doesn't.
'she can't be....' Hyatt says, can't be what 'dead' no, 'missing' would be the first thing I would have thought Gerry was going to say.
Kate again is explaining what happened when she went to check on the children, she was probably asked in the interview to describe what happened. Weeks months after the event. Of course she is going to say everything that happened, when if she had been interviewed straight afterwards she would probably have been much less descriptive about the step by step of what happened.
'She loved to be photographed, and we loved photographing her' yes, some children just love to have their photo taken, one of mine used to pose straight away when she was very small. How does Hyatt know there weren't many photo's taken? He see's three well there were more than that that we have seen, the photo's in the park, the photo with the tennis balls, the photo by the pool, there are probably others but aren't shown because the have other people's children in them as well.
'They give us a lot of detail, but not about Madeleine' well, sorry what does he want them to say about Madeleine? I find that sentence rather weird.
He didn't know much about the case he hadn't read the rogatory statements, how do you know that? because he says so?
Sorry but you are very gullible if you believe all this rubbish, he is saying what he knows you want to hear.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: xtina on December 08, 2016, 05:30:49 PM
Can I just say that the interviews that Hyatt watched were weeks, months after the event.
If he was analysing a statement given straight after the event, then I might take notice about what Gerry says 'when we were running' Hyatt said Gerry has to tell us he was in emergency mode, I doubt if he would even have mentioned it in a statement straight after the even, actually he doesn't.
'she can't be....' Hyatt says, can't be what 'dead' no, 'missing' would be the first thing I would have thought Gerry was going to say.
Kate again is explaining what happened when she went to check on the children, she was probably asked in the interview to describe what happened. Weeks months after the event. Of course she is going to say everything that happened, when if she had been interviewed straight afterwards she would probably have been much less descriptive about the step by step of what happened.
'She loved to be photographed, and we loved photographing her' yes, some children just love to have their photo taken, one of mine used to pose straight away when she was very small. How does Hyatt know there weren't many photo's taken? He see's three well there were more than that that we have seen, the photo's in the park, the photo with the tennis balls, the photo by the pool, there are probably others but aren't shown because the have other people's children in them as well.
'They give us a lot of detail, but not about Madeleine' well, sorry what does he want them to say about Madeleine? I find that sentence rather weird.
He didn't know much about the case he hadn't read the rogatory statements, how do you know that? because he says so?
Sorry but you are very gullible if you believe all this rubbish, he is saying what he knows you want to hear.
did you think it was that good .....you posted it twice ...3 times with this.... @)(++(*
you don't know it is rubbish ..you only think it is ......
so he would be ok .if he was saying what you wanted to hear.............
well not as gullible ...as believing the abduction ....on just the mccs say so lace
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 08, 2016, 05:53:23 PM
Do you really believe that SY have ruled the McCanns out as suspects or persons of interest - just on their say so? Surely not.
I was listening to an interview with Kate and she said after the file had been release they had to pay over 100,000 pounds to get the file translated and then she spent every spare minute going through it reading every file. That really sounded like the work of a guilty party - NOT.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on December 08, 2016, 06:42:01 PM
I don't know how my post got posted twice, I did edit it so maybe I pressed something I shouldn't have. Eleanor could you be so kind as to delete the copy of my post please? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on December 08, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
Fallibility of memory is not a welcome fact to some sceptics in the McCann case.
I have posted the following many times, but AFAIK no sceptic has ever 'acknowledged them'. They would much rather believe that discrepancies in statements mean that someone must be lying - and therefore are proof of deception.
QUOTE: from police officer interviewing JT:
4078 “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”. Unquote.
Quote from Steve Retford.
In a crime situation memory is influenced by many factors such as stress, the presence of a weapon and even just the desire to help police solve the crime.
"Police know how fallible the memory can be," says Steve Retford, a former head of the investigative skills unit at GMP and now specialist interviewing adviser with the force.
"They also know this is usually not through mischievousness on the part of the witnesses, but through stress and shock."
Take the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot at Stockwell Tube station in 2005 by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber.
Eyewitnesses said he had vaulted a ticket barrier when running away from the police. In fact it was later shown by CCTV that Mr Menezes had walked through the barriers, having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving. End quote
AIMHO
The same eyewitnesses also 'saw' Mr Menezes wearing a thick, knee-length coat with leads trailing underneath.
In fact, he was wearing light-weight denim jacket with not a lead in sight.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 09, 2016, 08:43:41 AM
I was listening to an interview with Kate and she said after the file had been release they had to pay over 100,000 pounds to get the file translated and then she spent every spare minute going through it reading every file. That really sounded like the work of a guilty party - NOT.
Perhaps you should study some cases where the actual guilty party or parties have tried through various means to divert an investigation.
By the way, was the £100,000 , the Mccann's own money or had it been part of the donations to them ?
As far as I have heard, the Mccann's have never spent a penny from their own resources to 'search' for their daughter. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.
P.S. I don't count any money obtained from the book. That should have never been required in the first place, if they had done their jobs as parents properly.
AIMHO of course.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 09, 2016, 08:46:51 AM
Perhaps you should study some cases where the actual guilty party or parties have tried through various means to divert an investigation.
By the way, was the £100,000 , the Mccann's own money or had it been part of the donations to them ?
As far as I have heard, the Mccann's have never spent a penny from their own resources to 'search' for their daughter. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.
P.S. I don't count any money obtained from the book. That should have never been required in the first place, if they had done their jobs as parents properly.
AIMHO of course.
Nothing I could say will make an iota of difference to you.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 09, 2016, 09:55:25 AM
Perhaps you should study some cases where the actual guilty party or parties have tried through various means to divert an investigation.
By the way, was the £100,000 , the Mccann's own money or had it been part of the donations to them ?
As far as I have heard, the Mccann's have never spent a penny from their own resources to 'search' for their daughter. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.
P.S. I don't count any money obtained from the book. That should have never been required in the first place, if they had done their jobs as parents properly.
AIMHO of course.
Now don't be silly
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 09, 2016, 09:55:45 AM
I have also used my decades of training, and experience dealing with people.
As for the rest, as I said a while ago, all in good time.
I await the result of the Supreme Court decision.
You may wait for the decision but I have yet to see whether the courts there in Portugal are completely non-political. Tomorrow for me - midnight here. Nite.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 09, 2016, 11:55:01 AM
You may wait for the decision but I have yet to see whether the courts there in Portugal are completely non-political. Tomorrow for me - midnight here. Nite.
I won't matter if it is political or not, the decision, whatever it is, will stand.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 09, 2016, 11:56:20 AM
McCanns interview with SIC, 09 March 2010
Don't you fear if the case is reopened you might be considered suspects again?
KM: It's never even crossed my mind.
SIC: Do you consider the posibility of, errm... Madeleine not being alive?
KM: Well, obviously there's a possibility because we don't know, errm... you know, we're not gonna sit here and lie and be totally naive and say: "She's 100% alive" but we do know there's a very good chance she's alive and while that chance is there we have to keep looking for her. We owe that... we all owe that to Madeleine; she's a little girl, you know, and we know from other cases, you know, there's a chance she's alive, so you have to keep going.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 09, 2016, 04:09:57 PM
What was your point Pathfinder? 3 years later!
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 09, 2016, 08:01:07 PM
Friday, December 9, 2016 Interview Analysis: Kate McCann
BBC "Women's Hour" Jenny Murray interviews Kate McCann 9 AUGUST 2007
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01ld3tf i was able to get this one going.
Where it says "Listen to this item" can you get that to work? It says I need a special program to run it.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 09, 2016, 08:52:16 PM
Could you give me the exact title that works on the BBC search engine please. Was it "Jenny Murray interviews Kate McCann" that gave no results.
Maybe you spelt it wrong "Jenni Murray interviews Kate McCann"? result for both "Sorry, there are no programmes with titles containing Jenni Murray interviews Kate McCann ."
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 09, 2016, 10:41:34 PM
I dont think that you were looking at the case then, Rob, but even 3 or 4 years after Madeleine vanished some were still saying .... "Fancy, how terrible, on that program the Mccanns smiled"
Some only wanted the Mccanns to be showing desperate pain all the time. They were not allowed to be normal and smile every now and again.
Idiots.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 10, 2016, 01:10:18 AM
Perhaps you should study some cases where the actual guilty party or parties have tried through various means to divert an investigation.
By the way, was the £100,000 , the Mccann's own money or had it been part of the donations to them ?
As far as I have heard, the Mccann's have never spent a penny from their own resources to 'search' for their daughter. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.
P.S. I don't count any money obtained from the book. That should have never been required in the first place, if they had done their jobs as parents properly.
AIMHO of course.
They have spent plenty of their own money as you must by now know. It has beenn gone over several times on this forum withy you present
They spent the money that came in for THEM from the libel cases. They spent the money from Kates book
And it is my bet that they spent any moneys coming to them from TV interviews. Anyone know?
I should darn well hope that they didn't spend any other of their money on such necessities as getting proper bona fide translations done.
Are you trying to bankrupt them and deprive the twins of a normal lifestyle, stephen?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 10, 2016, 01:12:24 AM
Could you give me the exact title that works on the BBC search engine please. Was it "Jenny Murray interviews Kate McCann" that gave no results.
Maybe you spelt it wrong "Jenni Murray interviews Kate McCann"? result for both "Sorry, there are no programmes with titles containing Jenni Murray interviews Kate McCann ."
I echo that. Can we see exactly what you are talking about Pfinder?
TY.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 10, 2016, 01:19:07 AM
And that's the problem in a (cleverly disguised) still totalitarian state.
The baddy boys at the top support the other baddy boys at the top.
Ordinary Joe Bloggs doesn't get a look in.
The baddy boys at the top support the other baddy boys at the top. And those baddy boys have baddy boys under them at infinitum. A bit like dogs with fleas.
Quote
"So nat'ralists observe, a flea Has smaller fleas that on him prey; And these have smaller fleas to bite 'em. And so proceeds Ad infinitum."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_infinitum
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 08:06:31 AM
They have spent plenty of their own money as you must by now know. It has beenn gone over several times on this forum withy you present
They spent the money that came in for THEM from the libel cases. They spent the money from Kates book
And it is my bet that they spent any moneys coming to them from TV interviews. Anyone know?
I should darn well hope that they didn't spend any other of their money on such necessities as getting proper bona fide translations done.
Are you trying to bankrupt them and deprive the twins of a normal lifestyle, stephen?
It wasn't their own money Sadie.
It was money they were given as a result of their actions, which is quite distasteful, to put it mildly.
You have never answered properly, one simple question.
Why should others pay for the mistakes of the Mccann's ?
Who said I was trying to bankrupt the Mccann's ?
Asking them to pay from their own resources, seems eminently fair, and most right thinking people would say the same as well.
Meanwhile, haven't the Mccanns been trying to bankrupt Amaral ?
You are clearly OK with that. 8)-)))
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 10, 2016, 10:56:45 AM
Do you read the files that they paid to translate? Who paid for the translation of the PJ files @ http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm commonly known as the McCann files?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 11:03:59 AM
But we are all benefiting from it. They could have spent the money on something more personal which I'm sure they would have if they were in it for themselves.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 11:11:59 AM
But we are all benefiting from it. They could have spent the money on something more personal which I'm sure they would have if they were in it for themselves.
How about 'searching' for Madeleine instead.
As to the case benefiting, in what way ?
it certainly hasn't been solved.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 10, 2016, 11:16:18 AM
Where did you think she was? Unless the files had been translated we would not have noted that those servicemen were also into doing burglaries would we? OK so SY and the PJ have questioned them, but I would say one of them could have easily left the place insecure to get back in, and was more likely to be in there during Gerry's check than was the abductor.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2016, 11:41:56 AM
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 11:47:15 AM
Where did you think she was? Unless the files had been translated we would not have noted that those servicemen were also into doing burglaries would we? OK so SY and the PJ have questioned them, but I would say one of them could have easily left the place insecure to get back in, and was more likely to be in there during Gerry's check than was the abductor.
The PJ were and are in charge of the investigation.
Not the McCann's and not OG.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2016, 12:52:37 PM
The PJ were and are in charge of the investigation.
Not the McCann's and not OG.
Look on the positive side Stevo. The Met, EssWhy, O.G. call them what you will spent in excess of 50,000 man hours on this just going through the files A man year is 1800 manhours so if Robbity is working on his own and actaully takes some kip then: 50,000/1800 = 27ish => only another 27 years of Robbity's NewTheory..... 8(0(*
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 02:08:04 PM
Look on the positive side Stevo. The Met, EssWhy, O.G. call them what you will spent in excess of 50,000 man hours on this just going through the files A man year is 1800 manhours so if Robbity is working on his own and actaully takes some kip then: 50,000/1800 = 27ish => only another 27 years of Robbity's NewTheory..... 8(0(*
Hasn't Bob dedicated his life to solving this case ? 8**8:/:
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: parapono on December 10, 2016, 02:25:36 PM
But we are all benefiting from it. They could have spent the money on something more personal which I'm sure they would have if they were in it for themselves.
Errr we are not 'benefiting' from it at all, sorry. The translation the McCanns alledgedly paid for was not made available to the public. The same goes for the official translation that Operation Grange ordered and paid for. Out of UK taxpayers pockets. With all these FOI requests flying around it keeps surprising me nobody asks for those translations to be made public. It would put all this mistranslation-humbug to rest. All imo of course.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 10, 2016, 03:01:26 PM
It was money they were given as a result of their actions, which is quite distasteful, to put it mildly.
You have never answered properly, one simple question.
Why should others pay for the mistakes of the Mccann's ?
Who said I was trying to bankrupt the Mccann's ?
Asking them to pay from their own resources, seems eminently fair, and most right thinking people would say the same as well.
Meanwhile, haven't the Mccanns been trying to bankrupt Amaral ?
You are clearly OK with that. 8)-)))
If someone libelled you, tried to ruin your good name and worse prevent the search for your missing child. Then it went to Court, and say you won £500,000 as compensation for their libel against you, who would get the money?
Would that money be yours or someone elses? Please explain yourself stephen.
Would it be distasteful to you that someone put out a multitude of disinformation about you and tried to implicate you in the death of your child ... or would that be alright by you ?
Kate went to the considerable trouble of writing a good book about the Madeleine case. It was a great success and she earned hundreds of thousands of pounds for it. Was that money hers to spend as she wished?
Kate and Gerry chose to forgo the monies that were rightfully theirs to try and find their missing daughter. Are you saying that they had no right to do that?
I wonder what you would do with such money?
Probably keep it for yourself as the dishonest Amaral and his criminal friend Cristavao have with the monies they earned writing their books? The writings, in their cases, were biased and libellous by British standards
So kate and Gerry gave huge sums [£1 million plus ?] of their own money to help the search ... and you are bemoaning them ?
What a lot you are saying about yourself stephen. And it is not very nice tbh.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 03:21:30 PM
If someone libelled you, tried to ruin your good name and worse prevent the search for your missing child. Then it went to Court, and say you won £500,000 as compensation for their libel against you, who would get the money?
Would that money be yours or someone elses? Please explain yourself stephen.
Would it be distasteful to you that someone put out a multitude of disinformation about you and tried to implicate you in the death of your child ... or would that be alright by you ?
Kate went to the considerable trouble of writing a good book about the Madeleine case. It was a great success and she earned hundreds of thousands of pounds for it. Was that money hers to spend as she wished?
Kate and Gerry chose to forgo the monies that were rightfully theirs to try and find their missing daughter. Are you saying that they had no right to do that?
I wonder what you would do with such money?
Probably keep it for yourself as the dishonest Amaral and his criminal friend Cristavao have with the monies they earned writing their books? The writings, in their cases, were biased and libellous by British standards
So kate and Gerry gave huge sums [£1 million plus ?] of their own money to help the search ... and you are bemoaning them ?
What a lot you are saying about yourself stephen. And it is not very nice tbh.
That reply in fact says everything about you.
None of this would have happened if they had taken care of their children, as good parents would.
They got their money, and IMHO blood money on the back of their incompetent parenting.
The fact is Sadie, it wasn't money they earned, it was money from the disappearance of their daughter.
You should be ashamed with yourself for supporting that.
IMHO naturally.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 10, 2016, 03:31:27 PM
None of this would have happened if they had taken care of their children, as good parents would.
They got their money, and IMHO blood money on the back of their incompetent parenting.
The fact is Sadie, it wasn't money they earned, it was money from the disappearance of their daughter.
You should be ashamed with yourself for supporting that.
IMHO naturally.
you should be ashamed of yourself for continually attacking parents who have lost a child. Almost ten years now a nd you and others still criticising....totally abnormal behaviour imo
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2016, 03:36:36 PM
None of this would have happened if they had taken care of their children, as good parents would.
They got their money, and IMHO blood money on the back of their incompetent parenting.
The fact is Sadie, it wasn't money they earned, it was money from the disappearance of their daughter.
You should be ashamed with yourself for supporting that.
IMHO naturally.
Having (thank goodness!) abandoned theMcCannsdunsomethingdreadfultoMadeleineandcovereditup, some continue to drone on remorselessly that the McCanns' childcare arrangements (narrowly) failed to thwart an abuction.
Depressing beyond words.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2016, 03:37:43 PM
you should be ashamed of yourself for continually attacking parents who have lost a child. Almost ten years now a nd you and others still criticising....totally abnormal behaviour imo
Yes ....
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 10, 2016, 03:37:47 PM
Errr we are not 'benefiting' from it at all, sorry. The translation the McCanns alledgedly paid for was not made available to the public. The same goes for the official translation that Operation Grange ordered and paid for. Out of UK taxpayers pockets. With all these FOI requests flying around it keeps surprising me nobody asks for those translations to be made public. It would put all this mistranslation-humbug to rest. All imo of course.
you shoulld realise it is only a tiny few online who still attack the Mccanns. nothing could stop their crusade. SY has said teh Mccanns are not suspects but they wont accept that. Why should the Mccanns bother with a small group of............ use any word you wish
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 10, 2016, 03:44:04 PM
you shoulld realise it is only a tiny few online who still attack the Mccanns. nothing could stop their crusade. SY has said teh Mccanns are not suspects but they wont accept that. Why should the Mccanns bother with a small group of............ use any word you wish
Ooo..er Are you sure we can use any word we wish ? @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2016, 03:44:49 PM
Errr we are not 'benefiting' from it at all, sorry. The translation the McCanns alledgedly paid for was not made available to the public. The same goes for the official translation that Operation Grange ordered and paid for. Out of UK taxpayers pockets. With all these FOI requests flying around it keeps surprising me nobody asks for those translations to be made public. It would put all this mistranslation-humbug to rest. All imo of course.
What on earth are you on about?
None of the stuff on-line should ever have gotten on line. Somewhere in the files is a very angry letter written by lawyers protesting at the way information was released into the public domain.
Kate, in her book, made no more than a handful of references from the file.
Swann and Sumer were similarly mindful of the restraints and observed them. Their book might have had much greater punch if they hadn't been so scrupulous.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 03:49:47 PM
What I find particularly obnoxious is those people who defend the mccanns, knowing full well no one else is responsible for this case occurring, and likewise supporting parents who have made money from the disappearance of one of their children.
So how can one describe such people other than being complete ar######s.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2016, 03:53:35 PM
What I find particularly obnoxious is those people who defend the mccanns, knowing full well no one else is responsible for this case occurring, and likewise supporting parents who have made money from the disappearance of one of their children.
So how can one describe such people other than being complete ar######s.
Mirror, mirror, on the wall
Who's the most complete ar######s.
Of them all ....
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2016, 03:56:33 PM
None of the stuff on-line should ever have gotten on line. Somewhere in the files is a very angry letter written by lawyers protesting at the way information was released into the public domain.
Kate, in her book, made no more than a handful of references from the file.
Swann and Sumer were similarly mindful of the restraints and observed them. Their book might have had much greater punch if they hadn't been so scrupulous.
Do you have a cite for the bolded bit?
I'm interested because if one did not have access to the PJ Files (unless involved in the incident), any book written or interview conducted is likely to be tripe. Equally, why are the PJ Files permitted to remain on-line?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
I'm interested because if one did not have access to the PJ Files (unless involved in the incident), any book written or interview conducted is likely to be tripe. Equally, why are the PJ Files permitted to remain on-line?
To be added to the contents of I, expressed above, it should be taken into account that there are a set of legal measures in the UK destined to protect individual rights, for example, The Human Rights Act 1989 (entered into force in the UK following the European Convention on Human Rights), The Data Protection Act 1984, Regulation of Investigative Powers Act 2000 and legislation concerning common rights in the UK which recognises that in a large diversity of cases, there are obligations on the part of the state authorities to intervene in a coherent form with respect to the protection of individual rights.
It should be noted that the divulgation of the above-mentioned elements would most probably affect legal and international police cooperation in the future within the domain of complex criminal investigations, therefore putting into question the execution of Portuguese Justice.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2016, 04:52:46 PM
I'm interested because if one did not have access to the PJ Files (unless involved in the incident), any book written or interview conducted is likely to be tripe. Equally, why are the PJ Files permitted to remain on-line?
It would certainly be interesting to read the response from the Ministry Of Justice. I am sure a Portuguese advogado would make "go sit on a sharp stick" sound very impressive in legalese.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2016, 04:55:08 PM
It would certainly be interesting to read the response from the Ministry Of Justice. I am sure a Portuguese advogado would make "go sit on a sharp stick" sound very impressive in legalese.
It was always the condition, on the British side, of their participation in a joint investigation, that the protocols of English law in releasing information into the public domain be observed.
The way the (joint) second investigation is being conducted is exactly the way the first investigation ought to have been conducted.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2016, 05:10:57 PM
It was always the condition, on the British side, of their participation in a joint investigation, that the protocols of English law in releasing information into the public domain be observed.
The way the (joint) second investigation is being conducted is exactly the way the first investigation ought to have been conducted.
All that is very easy to say but very difficult to impose unless wanting to appear obstructive. Rewritten it says "we will cooperate provided you change your laws." But that is not the thrust of the letter you have linked. Is it the latest edict from HQ that this now has to be refereed to as a Joint Investigation? It wasn't and never will be added to which about a year ago or so "tout le monde" was banging on about how disgraceful it was that it wasn't a joint investigation? Make yer bleedin' minds up. Did yer mums never explain yo can't have yer bun and yer ha'penny.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 10, 2016, 05:31:11 PM
Errr we are not 'benefiting' from it at all, sorry. The translation the McCanns alledgedly paid for was not made available to the public. The same goes for the official translation that Operation Grange ordered and paid for. Out of UK taxpayers pockets. With all these FOI requests flying around it keeps surprising me nobody asks for those translations to be made public. It would put all this mistranslation-humbug to rest. All imo of course.
So does anyone know who paid for the the McCann files translation? The translation that is publicly available.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 10, 2016, 05:34:06 PM
So could we get versions of the PJ Files depending on the flavour of the translator?
Some of the amateur translators point out that there are different language constructs in Portuguese and English, and that this affects the translation.
This would also have affected the original interview records of people who did not speak Portuguese, and hence had to use a translator.
The best we have got is the records in Portuguese, which can be re-checked if something looks not quite right.
There is a very long thread at http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6432.0 on the topic of translation errors.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 10, 2016, 06:01:19 PM
So could we get versions of the PJ Files depending on the flavour of the translator?
All I know is - the files were translated by individuals who already decided the McCanns were involved in their child's disappearance, not by anyone with a completely objective viewpoint. So, make of that what you will.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2016, 06:33:34 PM
All I know is - the files were translated by individuals who already decided the McCanns were involved in their child's disappearance, not by anyone with a completely objective viewpoint. So, make of that what you will.
There was a total disregard both for Portuguese and European convention with in some cases the personal details of witnesses being publicised including home addresses in conjunction with their witness statements. That information should not have been released into the public domain.
Who can tell if a witness unwittingly held the key to solving the case and was put at risk from those 'in the know' when reading the information given. Or were forewarned about something which might incriminate them and enable the appropriate action to be taken to rectify that.
Also, it seems that it was disgracefully never envisaged that Madeleine McCann's case would become live again. Publication of the files has very likely compromised any case that could be made against any named individual within them.
Principle 16 - Protection of witnesses The identity of witnesses should not be disclosed, unless a witness has given his or her prior consent, the identification of a witness is of public concern, or the testimony has already been given in public. The identity of witnesses should never be disclosed where this endangers their lives or security. Due respect shall be paid to protection programmes for witnesses, especially in criminal proceedings against organised crime or crime within the family. https://search.coe.int/cm/Pages/result_details.aspx?ObjectID=09000016805df617
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 10, 2016, 07:17:11 PM
If someone libelled you, tried to ruin your good name and worse prevent the search for your missing child. Then it went to Court, and say you won £500,000 as compensation for their libel against you, who would get the money?
Would that money be yours or someone elses? Please explain yourself stephen.
Would it be distasteful to you that someone put out a multitude of disinformation about you and tried to implicate you in the death of your child ... or would that be alright by you ?
Kate went to the considerable trouble of writing a good book about the Madeleine case. It was a great success and she earned hundreds of thousands of pounds for it. Was that money hers to spend as she wished?
Kate and Gerry chose to forgo the monies that were rightfully theirs to try and find their missing daughter. Are you saying that they had no right to do that?
I wonder what you would do with such money?
Probably keep it for yourself as the dishonest Amaral and his criminal friend Cristavao have with the monies they earned writing their books? The writings, in their cases, were biased and libellous by British standards
So kate and Gerry gave huge sums [£1 million plus ?] of their own money to help the search ... and you are bemoaning them ?
What a lot you are saying about yourself stephen. And it is not very nice tbh.
The money would be yours until you gave it to another person or company.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 10, 2016, 08:03:30 PM
Some of the amateur translators point out that there are different language constructs in Portuguese and English, and that this affects the translation.
This would also have affected the original interview records of people who did not speak Portuguese, and hence had to use a translator.
The best we have got is the records in Portuguese, which can be re-checked if something looks not quite right.
There is a very long thread at http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6432.0 on the topic of translation errors.
what we dont have is a record of what teh mccanns actually said in english....any non verbatim twice translated account is absolutely 100 per cent sure to contain innaccuracies
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 10, 2016, 09:18:45 PM
what we dont have is a record of what teh mccanns actually said in english....any non verbatim twice translated account is absolutely 100 per cent sure to contain innaccuracies
True, their statements could have been really suspicious.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 10, 2016, 09:45:49 PM
Is there only the one set of translations on the net?
As far as I'm aware yes. Can you imagine if they'd been translated by a McCann supporter or by a translator paid for by the McCanns? We wouldn't be allowed to use them as a cite at all!
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2016, 10:25:35 AM
If they had been paid for by the McCanns, I dare say they would not have been made available to us .
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 11, 2016, 10:48:15 AM
If they had been paid for by the McCanns, I dare say they would not have been made available to us .
Maybe, but that wasn't my point. My point was you would have called every single translated word into question.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2016, 10:54:45 AM
Rather a moot point as they would not have seen the light of day to be commented on. It's only because the translations came form elsewhere that we have been able to see them. If the translations are so wrong, then it is in the McCanns hand to correct them.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 11, 2016, 11:28:15 AM
Rather a moot point as they would not have seen the light of day to be commented on. It's only because the translations came form elsewhere that we have been able to see them. If the translations are so wrong, then it is in the McCanns hand to correct them.
Seems they have privately.
Perhaps they prefer to "keep their powder dry" rather than reveal any descrepancies to certain sneering others.?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 11, 2016, 12:39:19 PM
Perhaps they prefer to "keep their powder dry" rather than reveal any descrepancies to certain sneering others.?
So they would rather suffer the "persecution" of the sceptics than release the translations which would address the discrepancies. As you would say ORLY.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 11, 2016, 12:56:43 PM
So they would rather suffer the "persecution" of the sceptics than release the translations which would address the discrepancies. As you would say ORLY.
they are intelligent enough to realise nothing will silence the persecutors....SY has said they bare not suspects....what difference has that made....none
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 11, 2016, 01:12:31 PM
they are intelligent enough to realise nothing will silence the persecutors....SY has said they bare not suspects....what difference has that made....none
The other one has bells on it.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 11, 2016, 02:11:18 PM
All I know is - the files were translated by individuals who already decided the McCanns were involved in their child's disappearance, not by anyone with a completely objective viewpoint. So, make of that what you will.
I do believe that 1) you would have to back up your opinion that the files were translated by sceptics, 2) give an example or two of bias, 3) explain why the McCanns did not release the professional equivalent and/or point out significant discrepancies, 4) why Kate made no comment about this in her book 5) why the McCanns did not take the webmaster to court and 6) why we can see the originals for ourselves and pick up errors.
As far as I can see, the errors do not show bias. They show a bunch of amateur translators working their socks off and making a rare mistake.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 11, 2016, 06:09:51 PM
I do believe that 1) you would have to back up your opinion that the files were translated by sceptics, 2) give an example or two of bias, 3) explain why the McCanns did not release the professional equivalent and/or point out significant discrepancies, 4) why Kate made no comment about this in her book 5) why the McCanns did not take the webmaster to court and 6) why we can see the originals for ourselves and pick up errors.
As far as I can see, the errors do not show bias. They show a bunch of amateur translators working their socks off and making a rare mistake.
As I didn't claim that the translations were biased I don't have to do any of that. The files were translated by sceptics though, forget their names, but I'm sure someone will help me out here.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2016, 06:45:08 PM
I do believe that 1) you would have to back up your opinion that the files were translated by sceptics, 2) give an example or two of bias, 3) explain why the McCanns did not release the professional equivalent and/or point out significant discrepancies, 4) why Kate made no comment about this in her book 5) why the McCanns did not take the webmaster to court and 6) why we can see the originals for ourselves and pick up errors.
As far as I can see, the errors do not show bias. They show a bunch of amateur translators working their socks off and making a rare mistake.
You ask, "3) explain why the McCanns did not release the professional equivalent and/or point out significant discrepancies"
The McCanns paid to have the files translated as part of their endeavour to continue the search for their daughter ... the little girl whose archived case was being studiously ignored by British law enforcement and more particularly by Portuguese law enforcement.
Snip "Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday. “He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts. Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter. "But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added. "They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7215353/Portuguese-police-ignored-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html
Madeleine McCann's case is now active ... it is unheard of for the files in an active police investigation to be released into the public domain ... as far as the Brits are concerned, until it is discovered what happened to Madeleine her case remains open.
It should not be forgotten that until her parents managed to have her case reopened Madeleine had been written off because without a shred of supporting evidence she was believed dead by those who should have been looking for her.
For example, Ricardo Paiva and his infamous "not relevant to the investigation" file.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 11, 2016, 08:29:45 PM
You ask, "3) explain why the McCanns did not release the professional equivalent and/or point out significant discrepancies"
The McCanns paid to have the files translated as part of their endeavour to continue the search for their daughter ... the little girl whose archived case was being studiously ignored by British law enforcement and more particularly by Portuguese law enforcement.
Snip "Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday. “He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts. Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter. "But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added. "They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7215353/Portuguese-police-ignored-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html
Madeleine McCann's case is now active ... it is unheard of for the files in an active police investigation to be released into the public domain ... as far as the Brits are concerned, until it is discovered what happened to Madeleine her case remains open.
It should not be forgotten that until her parents managed to have her case reopened Madeleine had been written off because without a shred of supporting evidence she was believed dead by those who should have been looking for her.
For example, Ricardo Paiva and his infamous "not relevant to the investigation" file.
What has any of this got to do with why the McCanns did not publish officially translated files?
If they have their hands on El Premio Gordo are they supposed to keep the blockbuster hidden?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2016, 10:22:13 PM
What has any of this got to do with why the McCanns did not publish officially translated files?
If they have their hands on El Premio Gordo are they supposed to keep the blockbuster hidden?
Perhaps it is of more relevance that the files are used as one would have assumed their original purpose should have been ... to assist in solving what happened to Madeleine McCann leading to her recovery.
Why do you think the McCanns should have more interest in endowing the hostile feeding frenzy of those with an apparent vested interest in Madeleine's death by publishing details of the ongoing case hoping to find her alive?
Active investigations just are not engineered to appease the lowest common denominator ... the aim of this particular one is to do what was not done ... and Madeleine McCann is the focus.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 12, 2016, 07:32:08 AM
Perhaps it is of more relevance that the files are used as one would have assumed their original purpose should have been ... to assist in solving what happened to Madeleine McCann leading to her recovery.
Why do you think the McCanns should have more interest in endowing the hostile feeding frenzy of those with an apparent vested interest in Madeleine's death by publishing details of the ongoing case hoping to find her alive?
Active investigations just are not engineered to appease the lowest common denominator ... the aim of this particular one is to do what was not done ... and Madeleine McCann is the focus.
If the McCanns think that their translations show that there are no major errors in the online translations, then that makes sense.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 12, 2016, 11:34:25 AM
That he confirms the truth of the statements made previously on 4 May 2007 he being available here to provide any further clarifications.
Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside. Referring to the front door, while he is certain that it was closed it is unlikely that it was locked as [because] they had left by the rear door.
"We'd never lied about anything - not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else. But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have a choice." Madeleine
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 12, 2016, 12:06:55 PM
If the McCanns think that their translations show that there are no major errors in the online translations, then that makes sense.
Quite possibly the content of the on line translations, or the people who set great store by them is not even of passing interest to the McCanns.
Their interest is in the accuracy of the materials in their possession as a means to the end of discovering what happened to Madeleine McCann and where she is now.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 12, 2016, 12:31:01 PM
Quite possibly the content of the on line translations, or the people who set great store by them is not even of passing interest to the McCanns.
Their interest is in the accuracy of the materials in their possession as a means to the end of discovering what happened to Madeleine McCann and where she is now.
So it's only the supporters it bothers?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 12, 2016, 01:44:55 PM
Has there been a Court Case? That will never happen. But you could guarantee that the On Line Translations wouldn't even figure.
Operation Grange and The McCanns have the accredited correct ones, which they are under no obligation to produce On Line.
It would interesting to know if KM and OG have identical versions, or if OG did its own translation, in which case one would expect two 'official' versions.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 12, 2016, 03:06:51 PM
It would interesting to know if KM and OG have identical versions, or if OG did its own translation, in which case one would expect two 'official' versions.
Not really. I doubt that Operation Grange would have used The McCann's translations. But Accredited Translations have to be absolutely correct, which is why they cost so much money.
These people are trained by the same standards, and are open to losing their accreditation if they get it wrong.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 12, 2016, 03:10:52 PM
Has there been a Court Case? That will never happen. But you could guarantee that the On Line Translations wouldn't even figure.
Operation Grange and The McCanns have the accredited correct ones, which they are under no obligation to produce On Line.
Where are Wikileaks when you need them?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 12, 2016, 03:18:06 PM
"Certified Translations in the UK As the translation industry is unregulated, ANYONE can make claims as to the accuracy of a particular translation and therefore it is important to check the credentials of the certifier carefully".
It would interesting to know if KM and OG have identical versions, or if OG did its own translation, in which case one would expect two 'official' versions.
Not forgetting version one ... inclusion of the Policia Judicairia version makes three by my calculation. All of which will no doubt include the pages which were never released on the DVD for the amateur translators to do with as they would.
I find the arrogance of those who feel entitlement to have possession of these official documents astounding. They relate to the investigation into the case of a missing little girl who may now be a teenager. That there is no inhibition in the expectation that the files of a live investigation should be published (an absolutely unheard of suggestion or occurrence) for antagonistic perusal is an indication of exactly the lack of esteem in which Madeleine McCann is held in by some.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 12, 2016, 03:57:52 PM
Not forgetting version one ... inclusion of the Policia Judicairia version makes three by my calculation. All of which will no doubt include the pages which were never released on the DVD for the amateur translators to do with as they would.
I find the arrogance of those who feel entitlement to have possession of these official documents astounding. They relate to the investigation into the case of a missing little girl who may now be a teenager. That there is no inhibition in the expectation that the files of a live investigation should be published (an absolutely unheard of suggestion or occurrence) for antagonistic perusal is an indication of exactly the lack of esteem in which Madeleine McCann is held in by some.
More wishful thinking, than expectation. No doubt you would refuse to take a peek if they were available to all @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 12, 2016, 04:13:49 PM
More wishful thinking, than expectation. No doubt you would refuse to take a peek if they were available to all @)(++(*
Believe it or not, Jassie, I really do not have the slightest interest or need to read the files ... my interest lies in police investigators using them to best effect to find Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 12, 2016, 04:53:48 PM
This is an eye opener: http://www.iti.org.uk/about-industry/certification-sworn
"Many translation buyers believe that a professional translator has to be “certified” or “sworn” to do the job. However, in the common law system in the UK, we do not have the "sworn translator" concept that exists in civil law countries."
It becomes better:
"Acceptability of ITI certification to the authorities.
The legal advice ITI has taken is that ‘a certificate is acceptable if it is accepted’ and that ITI members should certify translations and wait to see whether a certificate is challenged and, if so, by whom. The Institute’s advisers feel that such a challenge is unlikely, or that by the time a challenge does rise, a firm precedent will have been set".
So much for the UK system. It would seem in many other countries the rules are more prescriptive eg:
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 12, 2016, 05:02:09 PM
When it comes to evidence there would have to be some declaration that the translator has no pecuniary or legal interest in the outcome of the case. (Ie definitely no conflict of interest in the outcome).
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 12, 2016, 05:16:40 PM
This is an eye opener: http://www.iti.org.uk/about-industry/certification-sworn
"Many translation buyers believe that a professional translator has to be “certified” or “sworn” to do the job. However, in the common law system in the UK, we do not have the "sworn translator" concept that exists in civil law countries."
It becomes better:
"Acceptability of ITI certification to the authorities.
The legal advice ITI has taken is that ‘a certificate is acceptable if it is accepted’ and that ITI members should certify translations and wait to see whether a certificate is challenged and, if so, by whom. The Institute’s advisers feel that such a challenge is unlikely, or that by the time a challenge does rise, a firm precedent will have been set".
So much for the UK system. It would seem in many other countries the rules are more prescriptive eg:
the portugues had Murat translating...is he sworn.......no
I would say he had no conflict of interest in the case, other than a desire to find out what happened. To remove him from his position of translator someone schemed against him. There is a report of an anonymous phone call dobbing him in. Lori Campbell may have been alerted by someone else too.
I would say he had no conflict of interest in the case, other than a desire to find out what happened. To remove him from his position of translator someone schemed against him. There is a report of an anonymous phone call dobbing him in. Lori Campbell may have been alerted by someone else too. They are very similar when it comes to the likes of Robert Murat and Silvia Batista, but those translating the files are just translators IMO.
Who does Robert Murat strongly resemble Rob ?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on December 12, 2016, 05:49:59 PM
When it comes to evidence that tthere would have to be some declarationhe translator has no pecuniary or legal interest in the outcome of the case. (Ie definitely no conflict of interest in the outcome).
Where does it say that?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 12, 2016, 06:10:56 PM
the portugues had Murat translating...is he sworn.......no
Well if he holds dual nationality then in UK ,had you been paying attention, you would have noted he cannot be "sworn" as there is no such thing in the UK, so no surprise there. Whether he is "sworn" in Portugal I would not know or care. Perhaps you will be kind enough to tell us how you know he is not "sworn" ?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 12, 2016, 06:18:35 PM
Well if he holds dual nationality then in UK ,had you been paying attention, you would have noted he cannot be "sworn" as there is no such thing in the UK, so no surprise there. Whether he is "sworn" in Portugal I would not know or care. Perhaps you will be kind enough to tell us how you know he is not "sworn" ?
Portuguese Translation Services London based translation agency, Romo Translations, provides an accurate and confidential Portuguese translation service to business enterprises across 5 continents. From the translation of Portuguese legal documents(sworn translations) to translating Portuguese-English conferences, our mother-tongue interpreters capture the subtle nuances and emotions that make up effective communication. http://www.romo-translations.com/portuguese-translators.php
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 12, 2016, 06:22:20 PM
Well if he holds dual nationality then in UK ,had you been paying attention, you would have noted he cannot be "sworn" as there is no such thing in the UK, so no surprise there. Whether he is "sworn" in Portugal I would not know or care. Perhaps you will be kind enough to tell us how you know he is not "sworn" ?
if you had been paying attantion you would have heard his friend commnet that his portuguese was poor therefore it follows he was not sworn
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 12, 2016, 06:31:23 PM
This is an eye opener: http://www.iti.org.uk/about-industry/certification-sworn
"Many translation buyers believe that a professional translator has to be “certified” or “sworn” to do the job. However, in the common law system in the UK, we do not have the "sworn translator" concept that exists in civil law countries."
It becomes better:
"Acceptability of ITI certification to the authorities.
The legal advice ITI has taken is that ‘a certificate is acceptable if it is accepted’ and that ITI members should certify translations and wait to see whether a certificate is challenged and, if so, by whom. The Institute’s advisers feel that such a challenge is unlikely, or that by the time a challenge does rise, a firm precedent will have been set".
So much for the UK system. It would seem in many other countries the rules are more prescriptive eg:
this is for translators in general....for court purposes see....http://www.nrpsi.org.uk/
As a result, the 1993 Runciman Royal Commission on Criminal Justice recommended that a national register of qualified interpreters should be established with the aim of ‘using only interpreters with proven competence and skills, who are governed by a nationally recognised code of conduct’. NRPSI was established in 1994.
Every interpreter on our Register has met the standards that we set for education, training and practice in public service. All Registrants are subject to the NRPSI Code of Professional Conduct and we investigate allegations of professional misconduct.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 12, 2016, 06:52:02 PM
It was the words interpreter and translator that were similar. I don't know who Murat was similar to but he had a cousin Angus Symington, who was very similar. http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.nz/2008/11/madeleine-mccann-symington-family.html
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 12, 2016, 07:33:22 PM
I find it so often difficult to read. Beyond insults and goading, I don't have the time or the patience to work out what any of you are trying to say. So the content tends to pass me by.
Just keep it relatively pleasant. And then I won't have a problem.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 12, 2016, 07:43:23 PM
this is for translators in general....for court purposes see....http://www.nrpsi.org.uk/
As a result, the 1993 Runciman Royal Commission on Criminal Justice recommended that a national register of qualified interpreters should be established with the aim of ‘using only interpreters with proven competence and skills, who are governed by a nationally recognised code of conduct’. NRPSI was established in 1994.
Every interpreter on our Register has met the standards that we set for education, training and practice in public service. All Registrants are subject to the NRPSI Code of Professional Conduct and we investigate allegations of professional misconduct.
I haven't read the NRPSI Code of Professional Conduct but I have worked in jobs where there were issues with codes of conduct and declarations of conflict of interest. It would be very important that interpreters and translators had no conflicts of interest at the level of taking evidence.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 12, 2016, 07:53:54 PM
3.10 Practitioners shall disclose any potential conflict of interest or other factor which may make it inappropriate for them to accept work in a particular case.
So for that reason (if the law in Portugal as equivalent) Silvia Batista should never have been used as an interpreter but Robert Murat would have qualified. The fact that Silvia Batista dobbed in Robert Murat makes it doubly difficult to accept her actions as legitimate.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 12, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
It was the words interpreter and translator that were similar. I don't know who Murat was similar to but he had a cousin Angus Symington, who was very similar. http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.nz/2008/11/madeleine-mccann-symington-family.html
I dont agree that they are all that similar, but Murat has another cousin who is not so dissimilar. I am not sure that they could be mistaken for each other tho.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 12, 2016, 07:58:01 PM
I dont agree that they are all that similar, but Murat has another cousin who is not so dissimilar. I am not sure that they could be mistaken for each other tho.
Was this "other cousin" in PDL that night?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 12, 2016, 09:40:23 PM
But Mr Murat's hopes that the likeness could help him clear his name were dealt a blow last night when Mr Symington said he left Praia da Luz at 6pm on May 3 and was seven miles away at the time of the witness sightings, between 10pm and midnight.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 12, 2016, 10:32:51 PM
this is for translators in general....for court purposes see....http://www.nrpsi.org.uk/
As a result, the 1993 Runciman Royal Commission on Criminal Justice recommended that a national register of qualified interpreters should be established with the aim of ‘using only interpreters with proven competence and skills, who are governed by a nationally recognised code of conduct’. NRPSI was established in 1994.
Every interpreter on our Register has met the standards that we set for education, training and practice in public service. All Registrants are subject to the NRPSI Code of Professional Conduct and we investigate allegations of professional misconduct.
So what in this case finished up in court?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 12, 2016, 10:37:31 PM
Portuguese Translation Services London based translation agency, Romo Translations, provides an accurate and confidential Portuguese translation service to business enterprises across 5 continents. From the translation of Portuguese legal documents(sworn translations) to translating Portuguese-English conferences, our mother-tongue interpreters capture the subtle nuances and emotions that make up effective communication. http://www.romo-translations.com/portuguese-translators.php
Yeah! I know about that surprisingly. Show where Murat is or isn't on the list. That was the issue I raised with the gobby Lloyd Bridges TV show.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 12, 2016, 10:46:43 PM
Ask davel he brought Murat into the conversation. I was just pointing out early doors that the translation of documents and those who do it is not regulated in the UK. There is a list of approved court interpreters but that was not the issue under discussion at the time and is of course a bit different.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: sadie on December 13, 2016, 12:53:00 PM
There are a number of cousins but you will have to research them yourself, I'm afraid.
I have no idea if he was in Pdl that night, but according to Blackwatch of The Sargeants Blog, [now defunct] he goes there... and he has had remarks made about him. That is all I can say.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 13, 2016, 04:34:41 PM
Then to aid the search for Madeleine McCann they keep it secret.
What?
You appear to be more concerned with the McCann parents than you are with Madeleine.
your claim I am more concerned with the parents is a boring repetetive sceptic mantra directed at supporters and shows your true colours
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 13, 2016, 05:24:10 PM
Operation Grange have got accredited translations. Why don't they release those. Why should The McCanns do it? It isn't exactly going to help. And who will have the time, first to put them up on line, and then to plod through a whole new set?
It's a pointless idea.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 13, 2016, 06:07:39 PM
Operation Grange have got accredited translations. Why don't they release those. Why should The McCanns do it? It isn't exactly going to help. And who will have the time, first to put them up on line, and then to plod through a whole new set?
It's a pointless idea.
With the "no stone unturned" concept accurate files would be an important issue.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: jassi on December 13, 2016, 06:12:34 PM
Which is why they spent a substantial amount of Fund money on it - not that it led anywhere.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 13, 2016, 06:26:14 PM
Then to aid the search for Madeleine McCann they keep it secret.
What?
You appear to be more concerned with the McCann parents than you are with Madeleine.
What is this "keep it secret" business? Do you think if the McCanns don't publish information about the case on the world wide web for the entire world's population to access, that they are "keeping a secret"? Can you give me one good reason why they should publish their translated files on the net? For whose benefit?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2016, 06:26:32 PM
Which is why they spent a substantial amount of Fund money on it - not that it led anywhere.
We don't know that spending money on the translations led nowhere. Madeleine's parents were able to lobby and make the case for having her case reviewed which led to the investigation being reopened. They had to have reliable information to justify that ... not forgetting that there may have been corroborating links in the files which Ricardo Paiva had filed as "not relevant to the investigation".
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 13, 2016, 07:19:56 PM
Operation Grange have got accredited translations. Why don't they release those. Why should The McCanns do it? It isn't exactly going to help. And who will have the time, first to put them up on line, and then to plod through a whole new set?
It's a pointless idea.
OG. An officinal enquiry. That does not comment on developments. Except when it does.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 13, 2016, 07:22:45 PM
What is this "keep it secret" business? Do you think if the McCanns don't publish information about the case on the world wide web for the entire world's population to access, that they are "keeping a secret"? Can you give me one good reason why they should publish their translated files on the net? For whose benefit?
One good reason?
Madeleine.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 13, 2016, 07:27:40 PM
You haven't explained how a release of the translated files would help the search....I don't see how it would help and I don't think you can come up with a reason that it would
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 13, 2016, 07:35:56 PM
You haven't explained how a release of the translated files would help the search....I don't see how it would help and I don't think you can come up with a reason that it would
The alternative is that confusion is good.
I prefer clarity.
For the benefit of Madeleine.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 13, 2016, 07:37:30 PM
How would the release of the files help the search
The search would depend on who done it. Amaral thought the parent did it so he searched locally. If the files were more accurate we might see more evidence for an alternative reason for Madeleine going missing.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 13, 2016, 08:12:03 PM
The search would depend on who done it. Amaral thought the parent did it so he searched locally. If the files were more accurate we might see more evidence for an alternative reason for Madeleine going missing.
why is it important what "WE" see....none of us are involved in the investigation
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Robittybob1 on December 13, 2016, 08:15:09 PM
To clarify yet again the saying ... "confusion is good" which is oft times attributed to Madeleine's father but more properly may be attributed to "The Slave"
Snip "Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry."
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview. http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: misty on December 13, 2016, 11:02:52 PM
I don't have any problem bashing the McCanns if they deserve bashing.
Make your mind up. Is it about the McCanns? Or is it about Madeleine?
I don't understand your question, nor do I understand why you think it is right to bash the McCanns for not releasing their translated files onto the world wide web. It's a preposterous criticism frankly. It seems there is nothing this couple can do right in the eyes of people like yourself.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 13, 2016, 11:09:16 PM
To clarify yet again the saying ... "confusion is good" which is oft times attributed to Madeleine's father but more properly may be attributed to "The Slave"
Snip "Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry."
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview. http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
It seems SIL is using this phrase to cast a slur on the McCanns intentions re: the translated files, I'd say that was tantamount to libel personally but no doubt it will be allowed to stand.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 13, 2016, 11:12:17 PM
Police forces are trying to find Madeleine for the McCann family, not a bunch of strangers passing the time on the internet.
The arrogance of some of the "internet sleuths" one encounters on the web is truly breath-taking. It's as if they believe the McCanns owe it to them to keep them fully informed and up to date at all times to help them crack the case. What delusions of grandeur!
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 13, 2016, 11:13:39 PM
I don't understand your question, nor do I understand why you think it is right to bash the McCanns for not releasing their translated files onto the world wide web. It's a preposterous criticism frankly. It seems there is nothing this couple can do right in the eyes of people like yourself.
If you cannot tell the simple difference between whether the issue is the McCanns or whether it is Madeleine then frankly you have lost the plot, IMO.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 13, 2016, 11:16:57 PM
If you cannot tell the simple difference between whether the issue is the McCanns or whether it is Madeleine then frankly you have lost the plot, IMO.
Thanks for your kind words. Personally I think it is you who have lost the plot as you are completely unable to tell us how it would help Madeleine to have the McCanns' translation of the files put on the world wide web.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 13, 2016, 11:21:37 PM
Thanks for your kind words. Personally I think it is you who have lost the plot as you are completely unable to tell us how it would help Madeleine to have the McCanns' translation of the files put on the world wide web.
There would be truth and clarity. How hard is that to understand?
Or we can have confusion. Is confusion good?
Which do you prefer?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 13, 2016, 11:28:36 PM
There would be truth and clarity. How hard is that to understand?
Or we can have confusion. Is confusion good?
Which do you prefer?
More rudeness from you. What is hard to understand is why you feel so entitled, and so hard done by and so very disgruntled by the McCanns' "failure" to provide you with all the information that you require. What made you so important?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ferryman on December 13, 2016, 11:55:38 PM
To clarify yet again the saying ... "confusion is good" which is oft times attributed to Madeleine's father but more properly may be attributed to "The Slave"
Snip "Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry."
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview. http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
Gerry mccann DID say it was a good thng that there was confusion, so why try bury this fact!
He was talking about confusion is good for an abductor in his interview
He said it and it stands
why did you leave this fact out of your diatribe
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2016, 02:08:22 AM
Gerry mccann DID say it was a good thng that there was confusion, so why try bury this fact!
He was talking about confusion is good for an abductor in his interview
He said it and it stands
why did you leave this fact out of your diatribe
STV Interview with Gerry McCann (following starts at position 3:10) Quote: Gerry McCann: "The current level of activity, you know, I think you're absolutely right, there is a huge amount of innuendo which is being presented in various ways, suggesting that there may be evidence or facts behind it and there are none, and our opinion of what happened that night has not changed. We know certain facts, unfortunately because of the criminal investigation, we can't divulge them, and I want to make it absolutely clear, the reasons why we're not divulging the information; we will not make it easier for the perpetrator to cover their tracks. The police have all the information and we have bared our soul to them, and we'll continue to assist them in any way possible, but, you know, we have to keep silent. And, in fact, one of the slight positives in... in all of this is that there is so much rumour about what did and didn't happen, it's actually very difficult, if you're reading the newspapers, watching TV, to know what is true and what's not." End quote
"Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry."
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview.
Conclusion Gerry McCann was not praising the amount of innuendo and erroneous media coverage during this interview. He did however state that a "slight positive" was that the perpetrator was not being helped to cover his tracks by gaining factual information about the investigation. http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: mercury on December 14, 2016, 03:03:34 AM
I said the same as you so why you felt the need to write tonnes is beyond me lol What exactly is your problem here?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 14, 2016, 07:05:49 AM
I don't have any problem bashing the McCanns if they deserve bashing.
Make your mind up. Is it about the McCanns? Or is it about Madeleine?
You have failed miserably to give any reason why release of the files would help the search.......you have just produced general statements such as clarity is good. You have then descended into insulting posters who disagree with you.
Madeleine is the most important person here but bashing the parents does not help Maddie.
It is common knowledge taht you were offended by the Mccanns refusal of your help in the search. It seems you are now more interested in bashing the mcCanns than any interest in maddie
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 14, 2016, 09:18:45 AM
Seriously, what would you intend to do should such information be released into the public domain - seek out the trafficking gangs on the Algarve?
Is there any evidence of trafficking gangs on the Algarve in the files? If there is, I've missed it!
OK, Gerry appears to have been on his phone quite soon after the disappearance talking about paedophile rings. Quite why he was ahead of the game on this is anyone's idea.
But trafficking gangs on the Algarve? I think you need a smidgin of evidence if you want that idea to stand.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 14, 2016, 09:25:14 AM
It is common knowledge taht you were offended by the Mccanns refusal of your help in the search. It seems you are now more interested in bashing the mcCanns than any interest in maddie
Please get your facts right. The McCanns are not now and never have refused my offer of help.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 14, 2016, 09:25:48 AM
Is there any evidence of trafficking gangs on the Algarve in the files? If there is, I've missed it!
OK, Gerry appears to have been on his phone quite soon after the disappearance talking about paedophile rings. Quite why he was ahead of the game on this is anyone's idea.
But trafficking gangs on the Algarve? I think you need a smidgin of evidence if you want that idea to stand.
People trafficking is usually incoming in Europe.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 14, 2016, 09:45:28 AM
Is there any evidence of trafficking gangs on the Algarve in the files? If there is, I've missed it!
OK, Gerry appears to have been on his phone quite soon after the disappearance talking about paedophile rings. Quite why he was ahead of the game on this is anyone's idea.
But trafficking gangs on the Algarve? I think you need a smidgin of evidence if you want that idea to stand.
Quote from Amaral's book.
The Algarvian coast, very popular with sailing enthusiasts, is bordered by a large number of marinas. Pleasure boats from every province berth here. Situated 120 nautical miles from the African continent, between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic, it is the most accessible coast for entering the continent of Europe. It attracts many yachtsmen, who appreciate the beauty of its beaches and its inlets, but it also attracts all sorts of traffickers. End quote
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 14, 2016, 09:55:46 AM
The Algarvian coast, very popular with sailing enthusiasts, is bordered by a large number of marinas. Pleasure boats from every province berth here. Situated 120 nautical miles from the African continent, between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic, it is the most accessible coast for entering the continent of Europe. It attracts many yachtsmen, who appreciate the beauty of its beaches and its inlets, but it also attracts all sorts of traffickers. End quote
We appear to have gone in quick order from paedophile rings to people traffickers to drug traffickers.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 14, 2016, 10:03:04 AM
Is there any evidence of trafficking gangs on the Algarve in the files? If there is, I've missed it!
OK, Gerry appears to have been on his phone quite soon after the disappearance talking about paedophile rings. Quite why he was ahead of the game on this is anyone's idea.
But trafficking gangs on the Algarve? I think you need a smidgin of evidence if you want that idea to stand.
I'm surprised that anyone can read anything 'sinister' into Gerry's fears that paedophiles had taken Madeleine.
On hearing the news - my very first thought was that she had been abducted by a paedophile - and without exception so did everyone else I spoke to.
'Taken by a paedophile' is the most common reason why little girls are abducted - and so IMO it was quite natural for Gerry to think along those lines.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 14, 2016, 10:21:09 AM
Anyone who believes the McCanns deliberately put obstacles in the course of the investigation by promoting confusion as a good thing is going to struggle also with the concept that McCann solicited translated files are accurate and unbiased, so why demand them in the first place? Also, are those calling for the McCanns to release into the public domain their version of the files expecting them to release ALL the inormation gathered by the original investigation, including those bits the PJ deemed unsuitable for release?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 14, 2016, 10:25:29 AM
We appear to have gone in quick order from paedophile rings to people traffickers to drug traffickers.
You asked for a 'smidgin' of evidence of trafficking gangs in the Algarve. According to Amaral - ''all sorts of traffickers' are attracted to the Algarve. That sounds like 'evidence' to me.
IMO
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 14, 2016, 10:32:35 AM
I'm surprised that anyone can read anything 'sinister' into Gerry's fears that paedophiles had taken Madeleine.
On hearing the news - my very first thought was that she had been abducted by a paedophile - and without exception so did everyone else I spoke to.
'Taken by a paedophile' is the most common reason why little girls are abducted - and so IMO it was quite natural for Gerry to think along those lines.
I wasn't reading anything sinister into anything.
Gerry had paedo rings on his mind early doors.
We have had people trafficking rings thus far. Perhaps I should include the Lagos slave market (museum) on my tours? It is believed to be the oldest slave market in Europe.
Drug trafficking? I have no doubts that if I really wanted to I could get my hands on some illegal drugs. Just as I have no doubt any forum member could do the same.
The Algarve isn't 100% legit, of that I am certain. But it isn't the frontier of the Wild West either.
Either the McCanns felt safe enough to leave the patio doors unlocked OR they were stupid beyond belief.
So is Luz and the Algarve safe? Or were the McCanns dimwits?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 14, 2016, 10:34:43 AM
"I was beginning to get past my early certainty that Madeleine must have been taken by a paedophile and murdered." Madeleine
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Alfie on December 14, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
We have had people trafficking rings thus far. Perhaps I should include the Lagos slave market (museum) on my tours? It is believed to be the oldest slave market in Europe.
Drug trafficking? I have no doubts that if I really wanted to I could get my hands on some illegal drugs. Just as I have no doubt any forum member could do the same.
The Algarve isn't 100% legit, of that I am certain. But it isn't the frontier of the Wild West either.
Either the McCanns felt safe enough to leave the patio doors unlocked OR they were stupid beyond belief.
So is Luz and the Algarve safe? Or were the McCanns dimwits?
Childish oversimplification in the extreme. Could you try and set a better example and raise the tone of debate, seeing as how you are supposed to be a Moderator?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Benice on December 14, 2016, 10:56:20 AM
We have had people trafficking rings thus far. Perhaps I should include the Lagos slave market (museum) on my tours? It is believed to be the oldest slave market in Europe.
Drug trafficking? I have no doubts that if I really wanted to I could get my hands on some illegal drugs. Just as I have no doubt any forum member could do the same.
The Algarve isn't 100% legit, of that I am certain. But it isn't the frontier of the Wild West either.
Either the McCanns felt safe enough to leave the patio doors unlocked OR they were stupid beyond belief.
So is Luz and the Algarve safe? Or were the McCanns dimwits?
You seem to have wandered off course in your reply.
This is what you said:
Quote Is there any evidence of trafficking gangs on the Algarve in the files? If there is, I've missed it! snipped. But trafficking gangs on the Algarve? I think you need a smidgin of evidence if you want that idea to stand. unquote
That sounded to me as if you think the very idea of trafficking gangs in the Algarve is ridiculous.
You asked for evidence to support it.
I gave it to you. The end.
imo
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 14, 2016, 10:58:21 AM
You seem to have wandered off course in your reply.
This is what you said:
Quote Is there any evidence of trafficking gangs on the Algarve in the files? If there is, I've missed it! snipped. But trafficking gangs on the Algarve? I think you need a smidgin of evidence if you want that idea to stand. unquote
That sounded to me as if you think the very idea of trafficking gangs in the Algarve is ridiculous.
You asked for evidence to support it.
I gave it to you. The end.
imo
Where has any link been established with this case and child trafficking ?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 14, 2016, 12:55:59 PM
Anyone who believes the McCanns deliberately put obstacles in the course of the investigation by promoting confusion as a good thing is going to struggle also with the concept that McCann solicited translated files are accurate and unbiased, so why demand them in the first place? Also, are those calling for the McCanns to release into the public domain their version of the files expecting them to release ALL the inormation gathered by the original investigation, including those bits the PJ deemed unsuitable for release?
The logical conclusion is that the McCann's translation has no significant difference from the online ones.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 14, 2016, 03:26:38 PM
The logical conclusion is that the McCann's translation has no significant difference from the online ones.
the logical conclusion is there are significant diferences and the files online are not accurate.......if the accuracy had been established the mccans would not have comissioned new ones
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 14, 2016, 04:01:47 PM
the logical conclusion is there are significant diferences and the files online are not accurate.......if the accuracy had been established the mccans would not have comissioned new ones
I would say the files online are pretty accurate for the most part in as much as any foreign language translation is never 100% true.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 14, 2016, 04:07:36 PM
the logical conclusion is there are significant diferences and the files online are not accurate.......if the accuracy had been established the mccans would not have comissioned new ones
Please explain how they could establish accuracy without getting professional ones done?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 14, 2016, 04:08:37 PM
the logical conclusion is there are significant diferences and the files online are not accurate.......if the accuracy had been established the mccans would not have comissioned new ones
Antonio Cabrita, told the court that Rainbow wrote: "It was Madeleine's father who was the last one to see her alive.
"The family is a lead that should be followed.
The contradictions in Gerald McCann's statements might lead us to suspect a homicide."
Cabrita added: "This report has never been published before but is part of the investigation. On June 1st 2007 British police had the theory that Madeleine could be dead and the family could be involved.
"It was British police who said they must consider not only abduction but homicide as well."
I would say the files online are pretty accurate for the most part in as much as any foreign language translation is never 100% true.
I would say they are reasonably accurate...but that is not enough....I don't speak portuguese but noticed that the translation of the archiving report asking the mcccanns to prove their innocence was wrong. How many more errors and how significant they are we do not know
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 14, 2016, 04:10:44 PM
the question you are avoiding now is did you email them....i believe you did...try and answer the question
I am not avoiding any question.
Q. Have I emailed the McCanns? No. See how simple that was?
Q. Have I tried to get in touch with the McCanns using email? Yes. Also simple.
Q. Does either Kate or Gerry know I exist? Probably not. They have gatekeepers on the email addresses they publish, and I have no idea whether any gatekeeper has transferred my messages to them.
Q. Who was the last gatekeeper I got in touch with? According to the McCann system, it was Clarence Mitchell.
Q. Has Clarence Mitchell ever read one of my emails? Probably not, but I can't be sure.
Let us keep this simple. The McCanns have NEVER refused my offer of help.
8((()*/
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 14, 2016, 05:48:36 PM
Q. Have I emailed the McCanns? No. See how simple that was?
Q. Have I tried to get in touch with the McCanns using email? Yes. Also simple.
Q. Does either Kate or Gerry know I exist? Probably not. They have gatekeepers on the email addresses they publish, and I have no idea whether any gatekeeper has transferred my messages to them.
Q. Who was the last gatekeeper I got in touch with? According to the McCann system, it was Clarence Mitchell.
Q. Has Clarence Mitchell ever read one of my emails? Probably not, but I can't be sure.
Let us keep this simple. The McCanns have NEVER refused my offer of help.
8((()*/
you have tried to get in touch with the mccannns to offer help and your email was ignored....let us keep it clear and simple
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 14, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Does anyone have any idea what the definition of an "embedded confession" is, or is it safe to assume there is no such thing?
http://prinniefied.com/smf/index.php?topic=133.0
Quote
An "Embedded Confession" is where the brain signals to the tongue to frame the words admitting to the crime. This is not when one quotes another, directly, but uses his own language to frame the words. The words must come, only, from the subject, himself, in order to be a confession.
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Eleanor on December 15, 2016, 05:12:52 AM
Errr we are not 'benefiting' from it at all, sorry. The translation the McCanns alledgedly paid for was not made available to the public. The same goes for the official translation that Operation Grange ordered and paid for. Out of UK taxpayers pockets. With all these FOI requests flying around it keeps surprising me nobody asks for those translations to be made public. It would put all this mistranslation-humbug to rest. All imo of course.
I didn't know that. How did you discover this fact?
Title: Re: McCanns' Embedded Confessions - Statement Analysis ( Richard D Hall release)
Post by: Lace on January 20, 2017, 11:33:42 AM
We have had people trafficking rings thus far. Perhaps I should include the Lagos slave market (museum) on my tours? It is believed to be the oldest slave market in Europe.
Drug trafficking? I have no doubts that if I really wanted to I could get my hands on some illegal drugs. Just as I have no doubt any forum member could do the same.
The Algarve isn't 100% legit, of that I am certain. But it isn't the frontier of the Wild West either.
Either the McCanns felt safe enough to leave the patio doors unlocked OR they were stupid beyond belief.
So is Luz and the Algarve safe? Or were the McCanns dimwits?
The thing is Shining, we don't know whether someone put the idea into Gerry's head do we? We know the McCann's knew nothing about the assaults that took place in the Algarve until they were told about them.
They thought it was safe as it was a family friendly site, it was quiet and felt safe.
There is no doubt that the first thing any parent would think when their child has gone missing and a window was open in said child's bedroom, would be that a Paedophile had taken her. It could be he voiced his concerns and someone said there were Paedophiles in the area.