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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on January 02, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
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The question of Silvia Batista's (SB) conflict of interest (COI) is raised often and needs to be determined.
There are a range of opinions:
"It is not so improbable when you consider the conflict of interest being dealt with by Silvia Batista. Head of the OC Childcare services and a child gone missing on her watch."
OR
"Strictly speaking it was outside her remit.
Would you care to delineate this conflict of interest wrt Sra Batista, that you persistently refer to?"
"If I may intrude here - SB was responsible for the people who had access to the apartments & vitally, who had access to the apartment keys on behalf of OC. Is that a conflict of interest?"
"Conflict of interest:
a situation in which a person is in a position to derive personal benefit from actions or decisions made in their official capacity."
"Taking that as a definition it is difficult to see how a conflict of interest existed between her employment as Head of Maintenance and Janitorial Services with OC and providing a service as an interpreter, the disappearance of a child from a building outside the OC compound limits notwithstanding. One would need to look at some contractual relationships together with the full extent of Sr Batista's duties, that is her full job description and terms of employment, in order to gain a full appreciation. I doubt we will lay our hands on any of that.
I do not think it appropriate, apart from potentially being libelous, to speculate about what personal benefit she may have derived in order to satisfy a conflict of interest."
4
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Can I suggest you get basic facts correct?
From Silvia's statement "until the present date, as a head of maintenance and services.
The head of maintenance and services, in the area of services, is responsible for the admission of employees and, in the area of maintenance, is responsible for the admission of employees and the good functioning of all equipment of the Ocean Club, including : flats, swimming pools, gardens, fences, etc."
This has nothing to do with childcare, so your starting premise appears to be fatally flawed.
I believe that the overall head of childcare had been changed shortly before the incident, and that the previous occupant, Donna Hill, was not interviewed in 2007. It seems she was one of those interviewed by Operation Grange in Dec 2014, so one presumes they were interested in the childcare staffing arrangements.
However, you are going to have to start again if you wish to make a case for a conflict of interest between Madeleine McCann going missing and Silvia Batista translating.
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Can I suggest you get basic facts correct?
From Silvia's statement "until the present date, as a head of maintenance and services.
The head of maintenance and services, in the area of services, is responsible for the admission of employees and, in the area of maintenance, is responsible for the admission of employees and the good functioning of all equipment of the Ocean Club, including : flats, swimming pools, gardens, fences, etc."
This has nothing to do with childcare, so your starting premise appears to be fatally flawed.
I believe that the overall head of childcare had been changed shortly before the incident, and that the previous occupant, Donna Hill, was not interviewed in 2007. It seems she was one of those interviewed by Operation Grange in Dec 2014, so one presumes they were interested in the childcare staffing arrangements.
However, you are going to have to start again if you wish to make a case for a conflict of interest between Madeleine McCann going missing and Silvia Batista translating.
All these aspects will need checking of course.
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From Kate's book
"A lady called Silvia, who worked at Ocean Club, had arrived to help out with translations. We learned later that she was the maintenance and services manager. .... She was very kind and I was glad of her help and support.
What were the services manager's duties?
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The question of Silvia Batista's (SB) conflict of interest (COI) is raised often and needs to be determined.
There are a range of opinions:
"It is not so improbable when you consider the conflict of interest being dealt with by Silvia Batista. Head of the OC Childcare services and a child gone missing on her watch."
OR
"Strictly speaking it was outside her remit.
Would you care to delineate this conflict of interest wrt Sra Batista, that you persistently refer to?"
"If I may intrude here - SB was responsible for the people who had access to the apartments & vitally, who had access to the apartment keys on behalf of OC. Is that a conflict of interest?"
"Conflict of interest:
a situation in which a person is in a position to derive personal benefit from actions or decisions made in their official capacity."
"Taking that as a definition it is difficult to see how a conflict of interest existed between her employment as Head of Maintenance and Janitorial Services with OC and providing a service as an interpreter, the disappearance of a child from a building outside the OC compound limits notwithstanding. One would need to look at some contractual relationships together with the full extent of Sr Batista's duties, that is her full job description and terms of employment, in order to gain a full appreciation. I doubt we will lay our hands on any of that.
I do not think it appropriate, apart from potentially being libelous, to speculate about what personal benefit she may have derived in order to satisfy a conflict of interest."
There was a clear conflict of interest. Police interpreters should be totally independent of any persons or prior activity being investigated. What if there had been neglect on behalf of the OC management, using a manager as an interpreter was simply asking for trouble.
Additionally, employing Robert Murat to act as an interpreter must have been really embarassing for them when he later became a suspect. Using the services of Sra Batista was convenient for them at the time but very unprofessional imo and just one more cock-up to consider.
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There was a clear conflict of interest. Police interpreters should be totally independent of any persons or prior activity being investigated. What if there had been neglect on behalf of the OC management, using a manager as an interpreter was simply asking for trouble.
Additionally, employing Robert Murat to act as an interpreter must have been really embarassing for them when he later became a suspect. Using the services of Sra Batista was convenient for them at the time but very unprofessional imo and just one more cock-up to consider.
So what in your opinion did Silvia Batista or tha OC gain in order to satisfy the alleged conflict of interest ?
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So what in your opinion did Silvia Batista or tha OC gain in order to satisfy the alleged conflict of interest ?
Inside knowledge. Look at it this way, the parents of the missing child weren't going to question the resort security when a manager was interpreting their every word.
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So what in your opinion did Silvia Batista or tha OC gain in order to satisfy the alleged conflict of interest ?
Do you accept that she made the statements recorded in this article? http://www.infobae.com/2007/08/15/331952-crecen-las-sospechas-contra-los-padres-madeleine/
In particular:
1. "The technical director of the Ocean Club resort, Silvia Batista, stated that the same night that Madeleine disappeared, she personally offered the childcare service "because the hotel is responsible for the children of the clients, but they Rejected ".
2. "According to the director of the housing, " every month have theft records in place, so a nanny service are advised " but even knowing this, Maddie's parents did not accept it "
3. ""We did not have guilt in the disappearance of small, could not say who was at fault, but ours did not , " said the director, noting that "parents of that child night were very unconcerned" , reason They would not have asked for the babysitting service.
We might need a better translation of the 3rd quote as it doesn't quite make sense as it is. Do you read Portuguese?
In 3 there are clear hints of a conflict of interest. She is basically declaring that she and the OC are not guilty, like responsible for Madeleine's disappearance. Then she goes on to say something like it wouldn't have happened had the parents not refused the babysitting service.
Is Silvia involved in providing the nanny service? If she personally offered it earlier that day it sounds like she had some involvement in providing the service.
These issues are not raised in her statement yet seem very important to the case. Why were they not raised with the PJ in her statement?
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Can I suggest you get basic facts correct?
From Silvia's statement "until the present date, as a head of maintenance and services.
The head of maintenance and services, in the area of services, is responsible for the admission of employees and, in the area of maintenance, is responsible for the admission of employees and the good functioning of all equipment of the Ocean Club, including : flats, swimming pools, gardens, fences, etc."
This has nothing to do with childcare, so your starting premise appears to be fatally flawed.
I believe that the overall head of childcare had been changed shortly before the incident, and that the previous occupant, Donna Hill, was not interviewed in 2007. It seems she was one of those interviewed by Operation Grange in Dec 2014, so one presumes they were interested in the childcare staffing arrangements.
However, you are going to have to start again if you wish to make a case for a conflict of interest between Madeleine McCann going missing and Silvia Batista translating.
Donna Hill was spoken to & made some form of statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KIDS-CLUB-STAFF.htm
Officer responsible: Inspector Manuel Pinho
Description and Result:
On this date, in the company of my colleague L.Madeira, we spoke with Mrs Silvia Maria Correia Ramos B., director of maintenance and services for the company "GREENTROUST", which manages the "OCEAN CLUB" company, contactable by mobile phone 964....
Through her, we contacted Donna Louise Rafferty Hill (contactable by mobile phone number 964...) responsible for the crèche employees belonging to the "MARK WARNER" company, who were responsible for Madeleine and the twins for several periods during the day after their arrival in Portugal.
She told us that all these employees are English nationals and that they work in Portugal from
March/April until November; that there are 13 people who work in the crèche, their names and telephone numbers being as follows: [NOTE: Phone numbers withheld]
- Pauline Francis M.
- Emma Louise W.
- Sarah Elizabeth W.
- Susan Bernadette O.
- Leanne Danielle W.
- Shinead Maria V.
- Jacqueline Mary W.
- Kirsty Louise M.
- Lynne R.F.
- Catriona Treasa Sisile B.
- Stacey P.
- Lyndsay Jayne J.
- Amy Ellen T.
--- It was also determined that all these girls live outside the resort, although quite close to it, and that Catriona B. was responsible for Madeleine during the day yesterday.
--- Stacey P. was the staff member responsible for the McCann twins.
--- Usually, it is always the same nanny who cares for each child.
--- The latest to arrive in Portugal were Sarah W. and Charlotte Pennington who arrived last Saturday, April 28th 2007.
--- The witness is the one responsible for coordination, and who distributed the children between the various girls, allocating each child to one of them.
--- Nothing abnormal happened today and no one was absent from work except those who were on their day off.
--- All the carers have made themselves available to speak with the police.
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There was a clear conflict of interest. Police interpreters should be totally independent of any persons or prior activity being investigated. What if there had been neglect on behalf of the OC management, using a manager as an interpreter was simply asking for trouble.
Additionally, employing Robert Murat to act as an interpreter must have been really embarassing for them when he later became a suspect. Using the services of Sra Batista was convenient for them at the time but very unprofessional imo and just one more cock-up to consider.
I don't believe SB was ever an official police interpreter (for written statements). She gave much-needed assistance to the English-speaking holidaymakers at a critical time when little other linguistic help was forthcoming.
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I don't believe SB was ever an official police interpreter (for written statements). She gave much-needed assistance to the English-speaking holidaymakers at a critical time when little other linguistic help was forthcoming.
She interprets the day Amy Tierney makes a statement about the photos. That is a clear conflict of interest.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY-1.htm
"Name: Amy Tierney
Has made previous statements in May last year.
Given that she does not speak Portuguese, Silvia Batista acted as interpreter."
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I don't believe SB was ever an official police interpreter (for written statements). She gave much-needed assistance to the English-speaking holidaymakers at a critical time when little other linguistic help was forthcoming.
It can be a difficult balancing act when urgency is required I agree.
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She interprets the day Amy Tierney makes a statement about the photos. That is a clear conflict of interest.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY-1.htm
"Name: Amy Tierney
Has made previous statements in May last year.
Given that she does not speak Portuguese, Silvia Batista acted as interpreter."
Fair enough - but that was a year after the disappearance.
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Fair enough - but that was a year after the disappearance.
A very controversial statement though. I wouldn't say all on this forum would accept what Amy says in it is fact.
I think Silvia would have been controlling the dialogue. It has never been explained how Bridget O'Donnell got the photo of Madeleine so soon. Was this photo one of the ones produced by Amy Tierney?
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As an aside, why was Joao Carlos pursuing issues about the photos in any event?
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As an aside, why was Joao Carlos pursuing issues about the photos in any event?
There has always been the issue as to whether the McCanns had pre-printed the posters and photos planning Madeleine's disappearance even before arriving.
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A very controversial statement though. I wouldn't say all on this forum would accept what Amy says in it is fact.
I think Silvia would have been controlling the dialogue. It has never been explained how Bridget O'Donnell got the photo of Madeleine so soon. Was this photo one of the ones produced by Amy Tierney?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm
*snipped*
They went to bed about 2300hrs but were waken about 0100hrs by a knock at the door. On answering the door they spoke with the resort manager and a person they knew was a member of the group but they only knew him as Matthew. It was then they found out that Madeleine was missing.
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If the photos were printed off just after 12 midnight then one could have been given to JW at 1am.
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Donna Hill was spoken to & made some form of statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KIDS-CLUB-STAFF.htm
Officer responsible: Inspector Manuel Pinho
Description and Result:
On this date, in the company of my colleague L.Madeira, we spoke with Mrs Silvia Maria Correia Ramos B., director of maintenance and services for the company "GREENTROUST", which manages the "OCEAN CLUB" company, contactable by mobile phone 964....
Through her, we contacted Donna Louise Rafferty Hill (contactable by mobile phone number 964...) responsible for the crèche employees belonging to the "MARK WARNER" company, who were responsible for Madeleine and the twins for several periods during the day after their arrival in Portugal.
She told us that all these employees are English nationals and that they work in Portugal from
March/April until November; that there are 13 people who work in the crèche, their names and telephone numbers being as follows: [NOTE: Phone numbers withheld]
- Pauline Francis M.
- Emma Louise W.
- Sarah Elizabeth W.
- Susan Bernadette O.
- Leanne Danielle W.
- Shinead Maria V.
- Jacqueline Mary W.
- Kirsty Louise M.
- Lynne R.F.
- Catriona Treasa Sisile B.
- Stacey P.
- Lyndsay Jayne J.
- Amy Ellen T.
--- It was also determined that all these girls live outside the resort, although quite close to it, and that Catriona B. was responsible for Madeleine during the day yesterday.
--- Stacey P. was the staff member responsible for the McCann twins.
--- Usually, it is always the same nanny who cares for each child.
--- The latest to arrive in Portugal were Sarah W. and Charlotte Pennington who arrived last Saturday, April 28th 2007.
--- The witness is the one responsible for coordination, and who distributed the children between the various girls, allocating each child to one of them.
--- Nothing abnormal happened today and no one was absent from work except those who were on their day off.
--- All the carers have made themselves available to speak with the police.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
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Do you accept that she made the statements recorded in this article? http://www.infobae.com/2007/08/15/331952-crecen-las-sospechas-contra-los-padres-madeleine/
In particular:
1. "The technical director of the Ocean Club resort, Silvia Batista, stated that the same night that Madeleine disappeared, she personally offered the childcare service "because the hotel is responsible for the children of the clients, but they Rejected ".
2. "According to the director of the housing, " every month have theft records in place, so a nanny service are advised " but even knowing this, Maddie's parents did not accept it "
3. ""We did not have guilt in the disappearance of small, could not say who was at fault, but ours did not , " said the director, noting that "parents of that child night were very unconcerned" , reason They would not have asked for the babysitting service.
We might need a better translation of the 3rd quote as it doesn't quite make sense as it is. Do you read Portuguese?
In 3 there are clear hints of a conflict of interest. She is basically declaring that she and the OC are not guilty, like responsible for Madeleine's disappearance. Then she goes on to say something like it wouldn't have happened had the parents not refused the babysitting service.
Is Silvia involved in providing the nanny service? If she personally offered it earlier that day it sounds like she had some involvement in providing the service.
These issues are not raised in her statement yet seem very important to the case. Why were they not raised with the PJ in her statement?
Here is another version of the statement 3 ""We did not bear the blame for the disappearance of the little girl, it couldn't be said whose fault it was, but certainly not ours", assured the director and indicated that "THE PARENTS OF THE GIRL THAT NIGHT WERE VERY UNCONCERNED", and there was no reason they should not have requested the service of a child-minder."
Here is an alternate version of statement 1. "In an exclusive interview with G1 on the afternoon of Tuesday (14), the director of technical services at the Ocean Club resort, Silvia Batista says that there was no fault of the hotel on the girl's disappearance. "The resort is not responsible for the children of clients. And we offer a babysitting service, which was not requested by the couple."
Which the opposite of ""because the hotel is responsible for the children of the clients, but they Rejected "
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I still find this hard to believe "When she arrived at the resort, she went immediately to apartment 5A, where she met several persons both on the inside and on the outside of the apartment. She went into the apartment but left it right away without speaking to anyone, because she was informed that the GNR officers were at the main reception, so she went to meet them." http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post3855.html#p3855
Enter a potential crime scene, speak to no one and then leave. That is weird. To feel that she is so needed, also weird!
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm
*snipped*
They went to bed about 2300hrs but were waken about 0100hrs by a knock at the door. On answering the door they spoke with the resort manager and a person they knew was a member of the group but they only knew him as Matthew. It was then they found out that Madeleine was missing.
=====================================================================
If the photos were printed off just after 12 midnight then one could have been given to JW at 1am.
Who would have given the photo to JW - John Hill or Matt?
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How was Silvia able to get a statement like this accepted yet Kate couldn't get a drug test done on her twins, or even a mention that she was concerned!
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
"Witness statement of Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista 2007.07.26
Date: 26 July 2007; Time: 16h00; Place: DIC Portimao
Officer: Paulo F., Inspector
To the matter at hand she said:
--- Already having given declarations in this case several times recalling the content of what she
had stated previously, reproducing [repeating] them all unchanged for this document.
--- The deponent appears again given that in the time since Madeleine disappeared she [S.B.] has
remembered some details of witnessed facts/events that she considers may, in some way, be of
interest to the investigation.
--- As already stated she was alerted to disappearance of Madeleine between 22h30 and 23h00.
She was at home and was informed of what happened by telephone. She went immediately to the
Ocean Club where she arrived a few minutes before the GNR officers arrived there. When she
arrived at the resort she went immediately to apartment 5A where she found several people as
much/many inside the apartment as outside it. Still she entered the apartment but left straight away
without having spoken with anyone who was there, since at the same time she was told that GNR
officers were at the main reception and she went to find them.
--- When she arrived at the officer's location she saw that behind them was Gerry, Madeleine's
father, with another person but she does not remember who it was. At that time Gerry was on the
ground on his knees, he hit the ground with both his hands, looking like an Arab at prayer, and
emitted two screams of rage [fury, madness] but she could not understand what he said. Then
Gerry stood up and accompanied the deponent and the other person to the GNR vehicle next to
the 5A apartment.
--- Once inside the apartment she asked those present for the passports of all members of their
families, as well as photographs of the missing girl. The deponent accompanied Gerry to the GNR
vehicle in order to deliver the requested documents. She states that she did this work, as well as
other work, at the request of the GNR Commander because they used her knowledge of English to
translate questions put to members of the family of the missing girl, as well as the answers that
were given. She recalls Gerry delivered several photographs of the missing girl to the GNR
Commander. The photos were postcard-style, they having that dimension and format. In truth they
were photographs of the dimension and format [size and shape] of a postcard, and they all looked
the same to her.
--- She was aware that from the first moment either Gerry or the others insisted in affirming that
Madeleine had been abducted always using the word "abducted" instead of disappeared, and all
showed great interest that the press were informed of the situation.
--- The deponent recalls further that she entered the bedroom where Madeleine had been
sleeping. Remembering it now that the door was closed. The interior of the room was dark. The
external blinds were down, light entering [the room] only through the holes in them. The windows
were shut and the curtains were slightly open. Gerry accompanied her on this visit, also with GNR
officers and he said that it had been him who had closed the window because the babies were still
sleeping there, which the deponent noticed to be true. Gerry stated that when he he was told about
Madeleine's disappearance he had found there the window and the blinds open, and the curtains
fluttering [as in the wind]. The deponent recalls that there were beds in the middle of the room and
that those being used by the babies were aligned [with each other] and therefore she thought it
strange that someone had taken Madeleine from the bed where she had been sleeping as far as to
the window because from that layout [of the beds] there had been no space to get past. The
deponent opened the wardrobes in the bedroom in order to check if possibly Madeleine wasn't
hidden in there. Then everyone left the bedroom someone having returned to close the door. The
deponent then spent some time in the room [lounge], with the GNR officers, Gerry and other
members of the group there who were in a large whirl, who came in, left and spoke on the mobile
phone. She noticed that none of the group, including the child's parents, were occupied with the
search. The mother was seated on the bed in the couple's bedroom, the father accompanied her
and the police officers and the other members of the group entered, left and spoke on the phone,
appearing to her to be preoccupied with informing the press about what had happened.
--- She thought that the child's mother was dejected [downcast; depressed; discouraged], the
father was preoccupied [worried] and also asked whether the media had been advised or the
search dogs had been arranged [organised]. Of the others she only recalls that Fiona and her
husband, Payne, were hysterical with the situation. At a given point, soon after the PJ officers
arrived, the parents took the twins from their beds where they were sleeping, taking them up to the
apartment on the first floor. At Kate's request the deponent took from the babies' cots the dolls and
a blanket also up to the first floor. The cots stayed with only the mattresses [in them].
--- The deponent wanted also to state that around 03h00 Madeleine's parents asked [about] the
presence of a priest in the area. They didn't explain their reason for wanting a priest but the
deponent found it strange since there was no indication that the child was dead and it is usual only
in those circumstances that one would ask for a priest.
--- At a certain point the deponent translated a statement from one of the ladies of the English
group, the lady she indicated as being dark-skinned. This lady said to the police officers, and the
deponent translated, that she had seen a man walking [passing] in the street, possibly with a child
in his arms. The deponent thought this strange because she was convinced that when she had
seen the man the lady was positioned in an area that had no line of sight to the area where she
would have seen the man. She doesn't know exactly where the lady was positioned when she saw
the man pass, but she knows that she indicated having seen him passing in the road that was in
front of the bedroom window where Madeleine had been, walking in the direction of the road of the
road that then goes to the Baptista supermarket.
--- Questioned as to the clothing the members of the English group had worn that night she states
that she only recalls that Fiona wore a green blouse, that Gerry wore a dark shirt and that Fiona's
husband wore plain trousers, cream, she thinks.
Nothing more said. Read, ratifies and is going to sign."
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Inside knowledge. Look at it this way, the parents of the missing child weren't going to question the resort security when a manager was interpreting their every word.
Why would they question the resort security anyway when the child was not strictly in the OC resort nor under their care when she disappeared?. Had the child been in the care of OC then there would have been a conflict of interest. OC ceased to have responsiblity when the parents signed her out.
I note that K McCann's statement of 4-5-2007 to the police was not translated by Sra Batista.
If carried to its logical conclusion some of the arguments put forward suggestig conflicts of interest could only be satisfied by bussing in full time interpreters who had no connections with Luz from about 20 klicks away. I don't see that happening.
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Why would they question the resort security anyway when the child was not strictly in the OC resort nor under their care when she disappeared?. Had the child been in the care of OC then there would have been a conflict of interest. OC ceased to have responsibility when the parents signed her out.
I note that K McCann's statement of 4-5-2007 to the police was not translated by Sra Batista.
If carried to its logical conclusion some of the arguments put forward suggesting conflicts of interest could only be satisfied by bussing in full time interpreters who had no connections with Luz from about 20 klicks away. I don't see that happening.
Alice did you read http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7864.msg373004#msg373004 ? I left a question for you in that post. In this Portuguese press release the translations back to English give us varying description of OC responsibilities to the children. What is your translation of it?
You say "If carried to its logical conclusion some of the arguments put forward suggesting conflicts of interest could only be satisfied by bussing in full time interpreters who had no connections with Luz from about 20 klicks away. I don't see that happening." Well that appears to be what OC did to make sure an interpreter was on hand.
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Alice did you read http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7864.msg373004#msg373004 ? I left a question for you in that post. In this Portuguese press release the translations back to English give us varying description of OC responsibilities to the children. What is your translation of it?
You say "If carried to its logical conclusion some of the arguments put forward suggesting conflicts of interest could only be satisfied by bussing in full time interpreters who had no connections with Luz from about 20 klicks away. I don't see that happening." Well that appears to be what OC did to make sure an interpreter was on hand.
I would start from first principles and not in the middle.
Potentially there are 6 parties involved with potentially a total of 13 contracts between them one way or another.
I would attempt to unravel that lot before going off half cocked.
Conflicts of interest are rarely illegal. It is doubtful any conflict of interest that existed in the circumstances under discussion here would be illegal. The issue then is: is there a conflict of interest contrary to contract where
it is possible to act on the conflict in such manner that causes harm to a party to whom you have a duty under the contract, or you fail to disclose or take steps to mitigate the conflict. When considering this you may have trouble with proving there was no disclosure or mitigation.
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I would start from first principles and not in the middle.
Potentially there are 6 parties involved with potentially a total of 13 contracts between them one way or another.
I would attempt to unravel that lot before going off half cocked.
Conflicts of interest are rarely illegal. It is doubtful any conflict of interest that existed in the circumstances under discussion here would be illegal. The issue then is: is there a conflict of interest contrary to contract where
it is possible to act on the conflict in such manner that causes harm to a party to whom you have a duty under the contract, or you fail to disclose or take steps to mitigate the conflict. When considering this you may have trouble with proving there was no disclosure or mitigation.
Well with Kate we do have a statement of disclosure, and that was that Kate found out later that Silvia was the OC manager of Maintenance and services. She didn't disclose this to begin with. Do the first two GNR officers speak of her role with the Ocean Club?
Jose Roque "When they arrived, they saw the girl's father, a friend whom he cannot describe, an OC employee and a translator who was also an OC employee, named Silvia Batista." No managerial role defined.
Da Costa - Silvia not mentioned.
Antonio Henrique de Conceicao Duarte does mention her role but the statement is long after the McCanns were made arguidos.
Antonio Henrique da Duarte Conceicao - "He was told that (Roque) had already gone to main reception of the complex in Rua Direita and had met the father of the little girl who had appeared in the reception with a friend. Together with employee Silvia (service manager of the OC and who also acted as translator, the father (Gerald McCann) and the friend they went inside the apartment from which Madeleine McCann had disappeared. After Roque checked that the child was not in the apartment, he gathered information from the mother and father. He was told by the patrol, that the father had put forward a theory saying that it could have been an abduction. He was also told that there was a shutter that had been 'raised'. "
There doesn't seem to be the right number of brackets. but "(service manager of the OC) seems an after thought.
"At the scene, he talked directly to the patrol and to Silvia who informed him about what had been said. His hope was that the child had left the apartment alone and got lost or that someone had seen her and stayed with her temporarily."
It is a bit ambiguous as to who it is who says this. Was this from Gerry talking to Silvia or Duarte's own thoughts.
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Instead of concerning ourselves whether an actual conflict of interest occurred the GNR should have considered whether there is the potential for a conflict of interest to occur.
With Joao saying his wife was called in specifically to act as an interpreter, an instruction delivered to her by the Manager or owner of the OC business, that in itself is suggesting a more serious conflict of interest even higher up the scale than just Silvia acting on her own.
Silvia blames Robin Crosland but it appears that is unlikely when you cross check the related statements.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7824.msg373022#msg373022 for an analysis of who could have contacted Silvia.
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It is in her third statement where she influences the course of the investigation that shows she is being more than an interpreter. Why does she appear to point the finger at Robert Murat in her second statement? (Suggestive messages only always allowing herself an out.)
Why does she criticise Jane's testimony without doing an actual check that she has her facts straight?
Why does she suggest the parents were not being genuine in their distress?
Probably many more points too but these are from my recall.
And then to think she may not have transmitted Kate's concern about the twins being sedated to the GNR or the PJ on Kate's behalf. Why? What could be going on that would make her say these things?
And then to give an interview where she claims to have personally offered a babysitting service to Kate that very day. Isn't that confirming the conflict of interest, she has a personal issue that involves the lost child. Saying basically "if only Kate or Gerry had listened to me, this may not have happened". I wonder who it was she spoke to, was it to Kate or Gerry?
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Can I suggest you get basic facts correct?
From Silvia's statement "until the present date, as a head of maintenance and services.
The head of maintenance and services, in the area of services, is responsible for the admission of employees and, in the area of maintenance, is responsible for the admission of employees and the good functioning of all equipment of the Ocean Club, including : flats, swimming pools, gardens, fences, etc."
This has nothing to do with childcare, so your starting premise appears to be fatally flawed.
.....
This web entry was supported by a link which has subsequently disappeared.
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14070&sid=7c0d0c8ed6dd8ecedb83682290d29550#p380929
"Como funciona esse serviço no resort?
Resp:O h├│spede deve pedir pelo telefone e as garotas (meninas inglesas) v├úo at├® o quarto para cuidar das crian├ºas. ├ë gratuito e est├í inclu├¡do no pacote de f├®rias, assim como as recrea├º├Áes diurnas. Mas os McCann n├úo pediram esse servi├ºo.
How does this service (babysitting) work in the resort?
Answer (Sylvia Batista): The guest has to make the request by phone and the babysitters (English girls) go to the room to look after the children. This is free and is included in the holiday package, as is the daily recreation. But the McCanns did not request this service."
So from that it appears the one of the services is "babysitting". It would make sense since SB says she offered this to the McCanns. What I find odd from her response is that the service for on site babysitters is "free" for I have seen it previously quoted at 15 Euro per hour. What is the truth about the cost of the babysitting service?
This quote was posted on this forum some years back http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6341.35;wap2
This service is mentioned in the Summary http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm "at an additional cost, apart from another babysitting service with no defined schedule" That doesn't flow right for me to understand that. I think we'd call that "cash under the table", is that what they mean?
https://www.oceanclubresorts.com/cms/images/babysitting_services.pdf It may have been different in Portugal in 2007
From someone who went to Algarve http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2007/05/my_experience_o.html "The McCanns’ choice to leave their children at the flat and make regular checks is surprising given the alternatives. In their defence, they may have been expecting, as advertised in Mark Warner brochures, a ‘listening service’. Staff told us that the service had been discontinued because the apartments were too spread out. The resort, however, offered a baby-sitting service for 15 euros (£10) an hour, which was staffed by a member of the daytime nursery teams, or a ‘dining out club’. This involved parents dropping off children at the crèche where they would be supervised watching videos until they went to sleep. Parents would then return before 11.30 to scoop up their sleepy offspring.
I can imagine the McCanns’ dilemma. The ‘dining out club’ was more than a five-minute walk from where the McCanns stayed along cobbled streets or a winding pedestrian path through the apartments. It’s not far - it worked brilliantly for us on most nights - but it would have felt much further if you had to ferry thee children there and back (and hope they were still asleep after doing so). Plus parents were required to wait until children under two, which includes the McCanns’ twins, were asleep. We talked to parents who said this was enough to put them off the option."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm
". For an additional fee, parents can obtain a "babysitting" service without a fixed time, to be arranged between the parents and the baby-sitter."
So it definitely wasn't free.
From Stacey Portz http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STACY-POTZ.htm
"--- Further still is the "Babysitting" service between 19h30 and 01h00 carried out in the apartments of the persons using it." So it went right through to 1:00 AM.
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Were I you I would stop wasting my time and potentially getting RSI until I had sorted out who was contracted to do what and what all the contractual relationships were.
Until you know that you are guessing wildly.
I'll join in again when you have posted copies of all the contracts.
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This web entry was supported by a link which has subsequently disappeared.
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14070&sid=7c0d0c8ed6dd8ecedb83682290d29550#p380929
"Como funciona esse serviço no resort?
Resp:O h├│spede deve pedir pelo telefone e as garotas (meninas inglesas) v├úo at├® o quarto para cuidar das crian├ºas. ├ë gratuito e est├í inclu├¡do no pacote de f├®rias, assim como as recrea├º├Áes diurnas. Mas os McCann n├úo pediram esse servi├ºo.
How does this service (babysitting) work in the resort?
Answer (Sylvia Batista): The guest has to make the request by phone and the babysitters (English girls) go to the room to look after the children. This is free and is included in the holiday package, as is the daily recreation. But the McCanns did not request this service."
So from that it appears the one of the services is "babysitting". It would make sense since SB says she offered this to the McCanns. What I find odd from her response is that the service for on site babysitters is "free" for I have seen it previously quoted at 15 Euro per hour. What is the truth about the cost of the babysitting service?
This quote was posted on this forum some years back http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6341.35;wap2
This service is mentioned in the Summary http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm "at an additional cost, apart from another babysitting service with no defined schedule" That doesn't flow right for me to understand that. I think we'd call that "cash under the table", is that what they mean?
https://www.oceanclubresorts.com/cms/images/babysitting_services.pdf It may have been different in Portugal in 2007
From someone who went to Algarve http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2007/05/my_experience_o.html "The McCanns’ choice to leave their children at the flat and make regular checks is surprising given the alternatives. In their defence, they may have been expecting, as advertised in Mark Warner brochures, a ‘listening service’. Staff told us that the service had been discontinued because the apartments were too spread out. The resort, however, offered a baby-sitting service for 15 euros (£10) an hour, which was staffed by a member of the daytime nursery teams, or a ‘dining out club’. This involved parents dropping off children at the crèche where they would be supervised watching videos until they went to sleep. Parents would then return before 11.30 to scoop up their sleepy offspring.
I can imagine the McCanns’ dilemma. The ‘dining out club’ was more than a five-minute walk from where the McCanns stayed along cobbled streets or a winding pedestrian path through the apartments. It’s not far - it worked brilliantly for us on most nights - but it would have felt much further if you had to ferry thee children there and back (and hope they were still asleep after doing so). Plus parents were required to wait until children under two, which includes the McCanns’ twins, were asleep. We talked to parents who said this was enough to put them off the option."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm
". For an additional fee, parents can obtain a "babysitting" service without a fixed time, to be arranged between the parents and the baby-sitter."
So it definitely wasn't free.
From Stacey Portz http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STACY-POTZ.htm
"--- Further still is the "Babysitting" service between 19h30 and 01h00 carried out in the apartments of the persons using it." So it went right through to 1:00 AM.
Stating or implying that Silvia Batista was personally making money from baby sitting services without evidence of such is libel. Do not repeat it.
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Stating or implying that Silvia Batista was personally making money from baby sitting services without evidence of such is libel. Do not repeat it.
But accusing two parents on neing drunk with no evidence is quite acceptable
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Stating or implying that Silvia Batista was personally making money from baby sitting services without evidence of such is libel. Do not repeat it.
Could you kindly make some enquires as to how the money generated from the babysitting fees is split between the OC and the girls please?
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But accusing two parents of being drunk with no evidence is quite acceptable
If you have seen a post which states they were drunk, you should have reported it. I cannot recall anything that came near to that in the period that I have been a moderator, but of course I may have missed it. Should I see such a post in future, I would amend or delete it, with warning points if appropriate.
I suggest you either provide evidence of your claim or desist. Moderators are entitled to protection from libel too.
Drinking = yes, since there is ample evidence of that. Drunk = no, since there is no evidence to support it.
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Could you kindly make some enquires as to how the money generated from the fees is split between the OC and the girls?
I don't need to. It's all in the files.
The parents could put a child in the night crèche. From memory this service was free.
Alternatively, the parents could request that one of the childminders baby-sat in their apartment. The fee for that was agreed between the parents and the childminder. In my experience that is how baby-sitting is usually arranged. There is no evidence of the OC controlling this, or of the OC or anyone in the OC taking a cut.
Our granddaughter was deflated at New Year. She had agreed to baby-sit for our children's youngsters whilst the kids had a New Year out. They had agreed a modest fee for this service. in something like August. Our granddaughter is a very popular baby-sitter, and as New Year approached she received multiple offers to babysit at €20 per hour, which she had to refuse. I dare say she will remember next New Year that parents are keen to go out on the eve, and that demand for baby-sitters outstrips supply.
The only OC 'involvement' is that those doing private deals would not be those scheduled for duty in the night crèche, as they were not free. Again without checking the files, the parents tended to ask the childminder who looked after their children during the day, presumably to ensure a familiar face.
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Could you kindly make some enquires as to how the money generated from the babysitting fees is split between the OC and the girls please?
Could you explain to me the relevance of this ?
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Could you explain to me the relevance of this ?
This relates to a non-evidenced allegation that I have recently removed from Robbity's post. Please don't ask him to repeat it.
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The babysitting provided by OC had to be organised officially through a manager as I have shown in my previous post.
"How does this service (babysitting) work in the resort?
Answer (Sylvia Batista): The guest has to make the request by phone and the babysitters (English girls) go to the room to look after the children. This is free and is included in the holiday package, as is the daily recreation. But the McCanns did not request this service."
I would be most surprised if it was casually arranged between the girls and guests.
I would also be most surprised if the "in room babysitting service" was free. I understand the night creche was part of the package.
Could you explain to me the relevance of this ?
I was simply trying to find if there was a conflict of interest when Silvia Batista was doing the translating.
Could you kindly make some enquires as to how the money generated from the babysitting fees is split between the OC @ PDL and the girls please?
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It is weird that Silvia Batista makes no mention of Emma Knight, and how Emma Knight misses making a statement till nearly a year later.
Is there even a hint that Emma Knight is the one who called Silvia to do the translations? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7824.msg373266#msg373266
No trace of Emma Knights in Silvia's statement.
Does it happen the other way around, does Emma acknowledge the presence of Silvia?
Emma states:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
"In March 2007 I travelled to the Mark Warner complex in Praia da Luz, Portugal. My position was Client Support Manager and my function was to receive and welcome the new guests and be available to resolve any problem that might arise during their stay. "
John Hill sends her back to the apartment:
"The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police. John stayed at the location and I several times went to search the grounds. I went with Amy and we searched the highest part of the complex behind the apartments. The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned. At that moment John asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need."
Maybe that is where and why Emma Knights calls Silvia because John said "provide all the help the family might need.
For they definitely needed a translator.
Emma mentions John Hill but not Silvia Batista. We seem to be having one of these not seeing moments again.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7805.0
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Were I you I would stop wasting my time and potentially getting RSI until I had sorted out who was contracted to do what and what all the contractual relationships were.
Until you know that you are guessing wildly.
I'll join in again when you have posted copies of all the contracts.
I'll see if Operation Grange can sort that out, for it is not covered that well in the file.
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Were I you I would stop wasting my time and potentially getting RSI until I had sorted out who was contracted to do what and what all the contractual relationships were.
Until you know that you are guessing wildly.
I'll join in again when you have posted copies of all the contracts.
I don't think that really matters.
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It is weird that Silvia Batista makes no mention of Emma Knight, and how Emma Knight misses making a statement till nearly a year later.
Is there even a hint that Emma Knight is the one who called Silvia to do the translations? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7824.msg373266#msg373266
No trace of Emma Knights in Silvia's statement.
Does it happen the other way around, does Emma acknowledge the presence of Silvia?
Emma states:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
"In March 2007 I travelled to the Mark Warner complex in Praia da Luz, Portugal. My position was Client Support Manager and my function was to receive and welcome the new guests and be available to resolve any problem that might arise during their stay. "
John Hill sends her back to the apartment:
"The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police. John stayed at the location and I several times went to search the grounds. I went with Amy and we searched the highest part of the complex behind the apartments. The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned. At that moment John asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need."
Maybe that is where and why Emma Knights calls Silvia because John said "provide all the help the family might need.
For they definitely needed a translator.
Emma mentions John Hill but not Silvia Batista. We seem to be having one of these not seeing moments again.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7805.0
How come I don't get any comments on a post like this?
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What I couldn't understand is why Silvia's evidence about Robert Murat was allowed to remain in the file even though she didn't turn up at the confrontational meeting between Robert Murat and the three other who identified him in the file (all three were from the Tapas 7 group).
Pegasus kept on saying this was because SB didn't feel confident about her accusation. OK but then she should have been re-questioned and her statement changed.
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José Carlos Leal Pimental – Statement, 16 May 2007
Processos Volume V
Pages 1346 – 1347
Witness Statement
José Carlos Leal Pimental
Date: 2007 – 05 – 16
Occupation: GNR Officer
*snipped*
When asked about Robert Murat, he says that he does not remember having seen him at dawn, having seen him during the day on 4th May in the afternoon at about 17.00- 18.00. He saw Murat pass by close to the mobile post accompanied by Officer Costa. At this time he was searching, he (RM) appeared with roll of electrical cable, that he was going to give to the mobile GNR post in the Rua Agostinho da Silva.
The witness saw him that night at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant. He was sitting at a table with some OC employees, including, as he recalls, Silvia responsible for maintenance at the resort.
=====================================================================
So, Sylvia still managed to get her identification of the man she saw the night before wrong?
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What I couldn't understand is why Silvia's evidence about Robert Murat was allowed to remain in the file even though she didn't turn up at the confrontational meeting between Robert Murat and the three other who identified him in the file (all three were from the Tapas 7 group).
Pegasus kept on saying this was because SB didn't feel confident about her accusation. OK but then she should have been re-questioned and her statement changed.
Silvia never actually said she saw him. She said she saw;
an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann...... That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
So someone told her it was him, she didn't know him. In fact she suggests that other people are asked;
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
Most of the other stuff about Silvia, responsibilities and baby sitters seems to be from Portuguese news articles. Are they more or less trustworthy than UK news articles I wonder?
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Silvia never actually said she saw him. She said she saw;
an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann...... That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
So someone told her it was him, she didn't know him. In fact she suggests that other people are asked;
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
Most of the other stuff about Silvia, responsibilities and baby sitters seems to be from Portuguese news articles. Are they more or less trustworthy than UK news articles I wonder?
If Sylvia didn't know Murat, how did she know that the Wrights & Mr Byron knew him?
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snip ...
So, Sylvia still managed to get her identification of the man she saw the night before wrong?
It might be possible she is confusing what she saw on the night of the 4th with what was on the night of the 3rd for there is that real strange bit in her statement where she asks the PJ to confirm what she is saying by them asking these two unknown characters.
What is she really saying here? "She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details."
Is this saying that these are the people who were going to give Robert an alibi? Or were they near to where Silvia was when she saw Robert at the G5 apartment block?
Silvia never actually said she saw him. She said she saw;
an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann...... That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
So someone told her it was him, she didn't know him. In fact she suggests that other people are asked;
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
Most of the other stuff about Silvia, responsibilities and baby sitters seems to be from Portuguese news articles. Are they more or less trustworthy than UK news articles I wonder?
Did they follow up with these three names to confirm it?
If Sylvia didn't know Murat, how did she know that the Wrights & Mr Byron knew him?
Bloody good question.
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Silvia never actually said she saw him. She said she saw;
an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann...... That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
So someone told her it was him, she didn't know him. In fact she suggests that other people are asked;
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
Most of the other stuff about Silvia, responsibilities and baby sitters seems to be from Portuguese news articles. Are they more or less trustworthy than UK news articles I wonder?
Basically she is saying she spoke to or spoke to another party about this individual for how else could she have known that he "wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann"?
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5701.msg281802#msg281802
Pegasus makes a series of claims in there that may or may not have merit.
Robert Murat's hair isn't light brown but it isn't black either.
Silvia doesn't say anything about the lens colour of his glasses.
His comment re the expats learning Portuguese reveals something too.
One important point to note is that if RM or whoever was there, he was there interpreting before Silvia Batista turned up. She had been specifically called in by her manager to act as the interpreter so she would find another interpreter a potential conflict of interest.
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Something else has come up http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1566.msg46472#msg46472
"Heriberto Janosch states: "The bad procedure I saw in the videos is that Silvia Batista (a witness and OC manager) was inside the apartment when Eddie was searching (you can see her legs). The right procedure would be she giving the apartment key and waiting outside. Heri."
This could be significant if she was involved in anyway otherwise what difference would it make? Where they going to take more hair or DNA samples after the dog searches - well they did take swabs of the blood spots. So yes but she had already been in there on the night anyway.
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The thing that bothers me more than others is that Silvia Batista controlled the keys so had control over which apartments Eddie checked.
If there was any potential involvement in the removal of a cadaver from 5A by Ocean Club staff having control over which rooms she allowed Martin Grimes access to becomes really significant theoretically.
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I feel there is becoming a case for Silvia to be questioned by SY.
Did she state in an interview that she had offered babysitting services to the McCanns that day? This is a really important issue for it could even through causality result in a motive something like "I'll teach those people a lesson for being so slack in their child minding and for turning me down!"
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The thing that bothers me more than others is that Silvia Batista controlled the keys so had control over which apartments Eddie checked.
If there was any potential involvement in the removal of a cadaver from 5A by Ocean Club staff having control over which rooms she allowed Martin Grimes access to becomes really significant theoretically.
There were guests in the rooms Grime had been asked to check so I don't really see an issue with SB having access to the keys in the circumstances.
08-Processo Vol 8...Pages 2218 to 2221
also Outros Apensos IV, Vol I Pages 281 to 284
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2218
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2219
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2220
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2221
Page 2220 :
*snipped*
The people undersigned and identified are temporarily lodgers, during their holidays, of the apartments, also identified.
They state that they authorise that Portuguese and English police officers displace themselves to the said apartments, on July 31 (Note : plus August also included but no date indicated), between 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. This is the reason why they gave the keys of the said apartments to Mrs. Silvia Baptista, Manager of the Ocean Club Resort.
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OK I had seen those before. But take apartment 5C for instance - there was no check on that one.
"4G Apartment
Mr. Jerrett
British passport No : 20XXXXXXX
(Signed)
5A Apartment : empty apartment,
Ocean Club Manager, Mrs. Silvia Baptista
(Signed)
5B Apartment
Mrs. Amery
British passport No : 30XXXXXXX
(Signed)
Page 2221 :
5D Apartment
Mr. Farrel
British passport No : 45XXXXXXX
(Signed)
5H Apartment
Mr. Brossington
British passport No : 10XXXXXXX
(Signed)"
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OK I had seen those before. But take apartment 5C for instance - there was no check on that one.
"4G Apartment
Mr. Jerrett
British passport No : 20XXXXXXX
(Signed)
5A Apartment : empty apartment,
Ocean Club Manager, Mrs. Silvia Baptista
(Signed)
5B Apartment
Mrs. Amery
British passport No : 30XXXXXXX
(Signed)
Page 2221 :
5D Apartment
Mr. Farrel
British passport No : 45XXXXXXX
(Signed)
5H Apartment
Mr. Brossington
British passport No : 10XXXXXXX
(Signed)"
That was a failure but not as big as failing to take the dogs into 5J. However, I don't believe Eddie would have signalled in any other apartment.
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That was a failure but not as big as failing to take the dogs into 5J. However, I don't believe Eddie would have signalled in any other apartment.
My original point is why weren't those two apartments checked? That is not covered in the file, was it simply Silvia saying "I don't have the key".
What was happening in 5J, why did you think it important to check it?
It is an error to prejudge the outcomes of the checks not done.
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My original point is why weren't those two apartments checked? That is not covered in the file, was it simply Silvia saying "I don't have the key".
What was happening in 5J, why did you think it important to check it?
It is an error to prejudge the outcomes of the checks not done.
You could argue that all the apartments in blocks 2,4.5 & 6 should have been checked by the cadaver dogs.
5J was the apartment which was apparently unoccupied during the McCanns stay & the days after yet the s&r dogs were very interested in the door. It was subsequently discovered that the fridge door was open inside & a quantity of rotten food was emitting odour. The PJ had to break into the property as no-one local had a key.
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You could argue that all the apartments in blocks 2,4.5 & 6 should have been checked by the cadaver dogs.
5J was the apartment which was apparently unoccupied during the McCanns stay & the days after yet the s&r dogs were very interested in the door. It was subsequently discovered that the fridge door was open inside & a quantity of rotten food was emitting odour. The PJ had to break into the property as no-one local had a key.
It is worth considering. The logistics of searching multiple premises becomes a nightmare. Should this type of search been done in the first few days, sniffer /tracker dogs and cadaver dogs in tandem checking every building within 500 meters of apartment 5A, even that would take days and would they need search warrants and permission for each residence?
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If Sylvia didn't know Murat, how did she know that the Wrights & Mr Byron knew him?
They were standing near the man she saw? Maybe speaking to him?
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What I couldn't understand is why Silvia's evidence about Robert Murat was allowed to remain in the file even though she didn't turn up at the confrontational meeting between Robert Murat and the three other who identified him in the file (all three were from the Tapas 7 group).
Pegasus kept on saying this was because SB didn't feel confident about her accusation. OK but then she should have been re-questioned and her statement changed.
This topic was tackled on this previous post:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5701.msg282148#msg282148
"Despite the exhaustive and methodical investigation into MURAT and the persons close to him, no elements whatsoever were collected to relate him to the crime that was under investigation, and it should be noted that contrary to what witnesses within the group stated concerning his hypothetical participation in the searches on the night of the disappearance, other witnesses (like SILVIA BAPTISTA and elements of the GNR) asserted that they had not seen him during those diligences." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm
Yet it is in her statement as "She doesn't remember who was with him, whether he came walking or in some vehicle. That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
Robert speaks fluently English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR of Lagos and later the PJ, translating the testimony of some British persons."
So indirectly she identifies Robert Murat so I wonder what diligences the final report is referring to?
They were standing near the man she saw? Maybe speaking to him?
Where did you get that from please?
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I writer who has always impressed me with his research is Textusa.
There is a article about SY investigating the OC management and he notices the same discrepancies I have noted in this thread.
http://textusa1.rssing.com/chan-26005015/all_p4.html
"b. Group 2 – The Ocean Club
This group is made up of John and Donna Hill, Silvia Baptista and Tiago da Silva.
Unlike what happened in July, when the resort was involved through a minor employee, a driver, Ocean Club has now been involved at managerial level by SY. Nothing more, nothing less than 2 of them and the resort’s head of the maintenance.
Silvia Baptista“works at Ocean Club since 03/03/1986, as a receptionist for about a year and a half, and as head of Reception for about three years. After and until the present date, as a head of maintenance and services.”
We find it quite odd for the head of maintenance and services to be made aware of what happened by one of the Ocean Club Owners: “She is aware of the events that occurred in the Ocean Club resort, having had knowledge of the girl's disappearance, by 22H.30 on 03/05/2007, through a telephone call from the administrator George Robin Crosland”
And it becomes even more strange because on May 7, Crosland doesn’t remember this call: “That at around 22h15 of 03 May 2007, he was alone in his residence, situated in Lagos, and was contacted by John Hill, Mark Warner manager who works in the Ocean Club establishment and who informed him that a child, a minor, of the feminine sex, who was staying with her family in that resort, had disappeared and that he was going to initiate the 'procedure for missing child' (sic); . The deponent left toward the local where he arrived at 22H25 and there found John Hill and other functionaries, Silvia Batista, Joao Batista, the former who is employee manager and the latter maintenance;”
John Hill, the manager, arrives at the scene at 22.33 after “he knew of these facts by means of a phone call from Lindsay, head of the child care service, who told him about a female child staying at the resort who had disappeared. This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007. About 5 minutes later the deponent presented himself at the resort”
So, John Hill calls George Crosland around 13 minutes before John Hill knows Maddie had gone missing and then Crosland doesn’t remember calling the head of maintenance who assures he did but who he, Crosland remembers seeing when he arrives on scene.
Why call the head of maintenance when one already has the manager engaged? See how strange it all seems?
Silvia remembers seeing a man that night who might have been Robert Murat but doesn’t confirm to be him:
“She remembers, although she is not absolutely certain, given the time already elapsed, that an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann.
She doesn't remember at what time she saw him.
She doesn't remember how he was dressed up.
She doesn't remember who was with him, whether he came walking or in some vehicle. That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Murat, his first name is ROBERT.
Robert speaks fluently English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR of Lagos and later the PJ, translating the testimony of some British persons.
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.”
The head of maintenance is not a job where one is holed up in an office. After having worked in the Ocean Club for 21 years, in such small community, we wouldn’t say it was unlikely but affirm impossible for her not to know who Robert Murat was.
If she saw the man she says she saw then she had to know clearly whether this man was, or wasn’t, Robert Murat.
She speaks of him as if she’s never seen Robert Murat before in her life. A man whose girlfriend at the time was married to an employee she had fired. An expat who has a business in town and who lives in a villa less than fifty yards, if that, from one of the Blocks (Block 1) of the resort:
She speaks as if she only knew Murat’s father but never had seen his son.
And on May 15, she even doesn’t remember the first time she spoke to Robert Murat: “She clarifies that on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or even Monday (07-05-2007) she spoke to Robert for the first time, during breaks between interviews, where he was acting as translator.”
Silvia, it seems, has since been made redundant and no longer works for the Ocean Club.
Donna Hill, is the one the Portugal Resident says in the whooshed article on December 22, 2014 that “only last month, Ocean Club manager Donna Hill told us: “I really cannot comment. One day I would love to break my silence”” and is the one who is really optimistic concerning Mark Warner’s exit from the Ocean Club (their only operation in the Algarve) as per the same Portugal resident on January 8, 2015:
“But as Ocean Club manager Donna Hill told us, they were reacting without knowing the facts.
Mark Warner’s owners, Mark Chitty and Andrew Searle, had simply decided to offer the Ocean Club exclusively to travel company Thomas Cook.
Chitty and Searle’s holiday company has pulled out of Portugal - not because of any fall-off in business over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann but because Thomas Cook has offered them “a very good deal”, said Ms Hill.
“We’re all excited about it,” she added. “This is actually a golden opportunity for the Ocean Club as now everyone staying here will come from the same operator and we will be able to offer the same services for all our guests.
“This didn’t happen before as we had some people staying on the resort that came through Mark Warner and others that didn’t.
“It made organising activities extremely difficult, whereas now we’ll be able to put things on for everyone equally.
“We are all looking forward to it - and we’re hoping for an excellent 2015 season!””
Lastly on the list we have maintenance worker Tiago da Silva.
He’s brought to the case by the Express on February 9, 2014:
“The Sunday Express tracked down the maintenance worker who allegedly lost the keys, 29-year-old Tiago da Silva, who lives a few miles from Luz in Lagos, a pretty coastal town.
When we put it to him that keys were lost, he paused momentarily before saying: “That is not the case. I can’t remember any keys going missing. The keys in maintenance were kept in a safe and nobody could get to them.””
However an unnamed colleague insisted:
“I know what he told me at the time. The keys for all the blocks were kept on a cable and clearly marked.
He said he had lost the keys to block five. He told me in the same week when the little girl went missing. I am sure of this.
From my memory I think they were replaced with duplicate keys for the apartments which were held at reception. I remember all this very clearly. He did not want us to tell people about it, so we didn’t say anything.”
This, according to Sunday Express suggested “the kidnap was well planned and executed using stolen keys.”
Tiago da Silva, is in our opinion, the green plant in this group’s bouquet. To show Swinging BH Deciders that the burglary thesis hasn’t been abandoned completely.
But another way to look at Tiago da Silva being part of the list would be to highlight that from the Ocean Club 2 managers and 2 maintenance personnel were questioned, thus highlighting the maintenance area. You know, shutter fixings and washing machine operation lessons.
Laundryman has, for us, a completely specific reason to have been called, as we’ll explain.
SY by calling John Hill, Donna Hill, Silvia Batista and Tiago da Silva are clearly involving Ocean Club in this affair. Please add José da Silva, the driver who was given the arguido status in July 2014."
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If there were as many inconsistencies in the Tapas 9 statements there would be plenty of criticism of the McCanns. Yet here we have statements by the OC management that don't even join together properly, in fact so badly I can't put it down to bad memory on their part.
I Just hope SY can get to bottom of it and find the reason OC management are hiding something vital. Once we know what they are hiding (I say hiding because of the awkward way all of their statements begin) we will have a clue as to what happened on that night.
Then we have a manager who has a conflict of interest acting as the main interpreter that night, fingers Robert Murat, criticises Jane Tanner and makes judgement calls on Gerry and Kate McCann.
Someone who doesn't mention the presence of Emma Knight who was there with her at all.
It doesn't seem right to me.
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If there were as many inconsistencies in the Tapas 9 statements there would be plenty of criticism of the McCanns. Yet here we have statements by the OC management that don't even join together properly, in fact so badly I can't put it down to bad memory on their part.
I Just hope SY can get to bottom of it and find the reason OC management are hiding something vital. Once we know what they are hiding (I say hiding because of the awkward way all of their statements begin) we will have a clue as to what happened on that night.
Then we have a manager who has a conflict of interest acting as the main interpreter that night, fingers Robert Murat, criticises Jane Tanner and makes judgement calls on Gerry and Kate McCann.
Someone who doesn't mention the presence of Emma Knight who was there with her at all.
It doesn't seem right to me.
From which you conclude ?
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From which you conclude ?
As I said before I'd like to see their statements all start from at least 9:00 PM onward.
Trace their phone logs to confirm their new statements.
Check their alibis to confirm their new statements.
For example:
If Robin Crosland says John Hill rang him at 10:15 PM, why does John Hill say the first thing he knew was when Lyndsay rang him at 10:28 PM? We have to wind the clock back to see where all their statements agree and then come forward again.
I must admit it seems rather impossible for I couldn't remember what happened on a certain day 10 years ago, but I have a feeling in this case something happened that they can't forget.
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I'd love to know why Amaral didn't notice these glaring inconsistencies right at the beginning. Maybe he needs to be questioned too. That would be a laugh; to make him an arguido in this case.
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Tiago da Silva. - I don't know too much about this customer. He has come up several times on the forum.
Search results for: "Tiago da Silva"
Pages: [1]
1
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« by Alice Purjorick on January 22, 2017, 09:15:27 PM »
...... worker who allegedly lost the keys, 29-year-old Tiago da Silva, who lives a few miles from Luz in Lagos, a ............ well planned and executed using stolen keys.” Tiago da Silva, is in our opinion, the green plant in this group’ ............ abandoned completely. But another way to look at Tiago da Silva being part of the list would be to highlight that ......
2
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« by ShiningInLuz on May 15, 2016, 03:51:52 AM »
...... person was a prankster whom he did not like. Tiago da Silva comes to mind, but there are so many da Silvas in ......
3
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Did Silvia Batista have a conflict of interest acting as an interpreter?
« by Robittybob1 on Today at 06:24:34 AM »
...... Tiago da Silva. - I don't know too much about this customer. ......
4
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« by ShiningInLuz on September 13, 2015, 12:53:42 PM »
...... McCann. The e-fit and the sole photo (AFAIK) of Tiago da Silva are attached. Tiago was one of the 11 witnesses ......
5
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« by Brietta on October 05, 2014, 01:25:14 AM »
...... worker who allegedly lost the keys, 29-year-old Tiago da Silva, who lives a few miles from Luz in Lagos, a ......
6
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« by pathfinder73 on February 09, 2014, 12:34:03 PM »
...... worker who allegedly lost the keys, 29-year-old Tiago da Silva, who lives a few miles from Luz in Lagos, a ......
7
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Latest reports claim the keys at OC had been stolen?
« by Mr Moderator on February 06, 2014, 01:50:32 PM »
...... guests were out. DENIALS: Maintenance worker Tiago da Silva. The Sunday Express tracked down the maintenance ............ who allegedly lost the keys, 29-year-old Tiago da Silva, who lives a few miles from Luz in Lagos, a ......
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Could this be what was being covered up by the OC management? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3367.msg126819#msg126819
"Apartment key theft cover-up by resort staff in Madeleine McCann case."
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/125876.jpg) I've seen that photo before.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3367.msg127775#msg127775
Pegasus pointed out what should have been done in this case:
Montclair: "From my experience working in a tourist resort in the Algarve, the locks on all of the apartments would have been replaced and new keys made."
Pegasus: "Yes that's what should happen.
Either way I dont see how maintenance department could get all those replacement keys from reception (or replacement locks fitted) without at least one worker at reception also knowing, and without at least one top manager also knowing.Yet zero employees/managers mention this in statements.
The involvement of reputation control peeps from day one obviously had nothing to do with it hopefully.
Of course this is all based on the generous assumption that the Express has accurately represented what was said by the two employees it interviewed."
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Why are we becoming hung up on the fact that keys could have gone missing or been stolen ?
Correct me if I am wrong but are apartments not rented out with keys given to every Tom Dick and Harry who rents the apartments such that they may gain access? In that event any Tom Dick or Harry could have the keys copied for any nefarious reason he may have had in mind.
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Why are we becoming hung up on the fact that keys could have gone missing or been stolen ?
Correct me if I am wrong but are apartments not rented out with keys given to every Tom Dick and Harry who rents the apartments such that they may gain access? In that event any Tom Dick or Harry could have the keys copied for any nefarious reason he may have had in mind.
So are you saying a client could rent an apartment and copy a key, and then come back at sometime and commit a crime in that same apartment. Yes that is possible but really unlikely.
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So are you saying a client could rent an apartment and copy a key, and then come back at sometime and commit a crime in that same apartment. Yes that is possible but really unlikely.
Why? But I was thinking more in terms of copying the key and passing it on.
Bearing in mind the "experts" on this case indicate that The Algarve is the paedophilia and child trafficking "capital" of the world I could imagine there being a roaring trade in keys to family apartments.
The lawless hinterland and all that bollox.
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Why? But I was thinking more in terms of copying the key and passing it on.
Bearing in mind the "experts" on this case indicate that The Algarve is the paedophilia and child trafficking "capital" of the world I could imagine there being a roaring trade in keys to family apartments.
The lawless hinterland and all that bollox.
Every trick in the book has been played one time or another, anything is possible.
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I'd love to know why Amaral didn't notice these glaring inconsistencies right at the beginning. Maybe he needs to be questioned too. That would be a laugh; to make him an arguido in this case.
This is also a possibility.
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This is also a possibility.
That is right. I'm taking a break and doing some manual work, but I'll keep reading the forum for while.