UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on March 07, 2017, 07:11:34 AM
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Does anyone have access to the documentary made by Emma Loach?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/8440440/Hunt-for-Madeleine-McCann-the-next-chapter.html
"Emma Loach, the daughter of the film-maker Ken Loach, has also become a close friend and adviser. She has made two television documentaries about the McCanns, and is a regular visitor to the McCanns’ home in Rothley in Leicestershire.
There has also been input from the Tapas Seven, the group of friends on holiday with the McCanns when Madeleine was abducted on the evening of May 3, 2007. They were dining with the McCanns when Madeleine vanished and have stayed loyal throughout."
Is this it? "Madeleine was here part 1/5"
https://youtu.be/TiYmcU8QxYo
50
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Is this it? "Madeleine was here part 1/5" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw)
Yes... https://youtu.be/EpaiVpHOFKg?t=7m39s (https://youtu.be/EpaiVpHOFKg?t=7m39s)
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Does anyone have access to the documentary made by Emma Loach?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/8440440/Hunt-for-Madeleine-McCann-the-next-chapter.html
"Emma Loach, the daughter of the film-maker Ken Loach, has also become a close friend and adviser. She has made two television documentaries about the McCanns, and is a regular visitor to the McCanns’ home in Rothley in Leicestershire.
There has also been input from the Tapas Seven, the group of friends on holiday with the McCanns when Madeleine was abducted on the evening of May 3, 2007. They were dining with the McCanns when Madeleine vanished and have stayed loyal throughout."
Is this it? "Madeleine was here part 1/5" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw
Sounds as if it was a very objective piece of work, then @)(++(*
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Sounds as if it was a very objective piece of work, then @)(++(*
Are you being cynical by some chance Jassi ? ?{)(**
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This is the same Emma Loach who gave evidence in front of Judge Emilia at the libel trial. You remember surely? She turned up with an interpreter who was not up to the mark and Judge Emilia had to help out for the interpreter!
The same Emma Loach who claimed to know all about the case and then showed she didn't !.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Emma_Loach_12_09_2013.htm
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This is the same Emma Loach who gave evidence in front of Judge Emilia at the libel trial. You remember surely? She turned up with an interpreter who was not up to the mark and Judge Emilia had to help out for the interpreter!
The same Emma Loach who claimed to know all about the case and then showed she didn't !.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Emma_Loach_12_09_2013.htm
Yes that one ! @)(++(*
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I see the usual mocking, 'discrediting' campaign which happens to anyone who dares to believe the McCanns has begun.
So predictable - and also completely irrational IMO.
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Yes that one ! @)(++(*
When I read the account of day one and Emma Loach's contribution I had visions of Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse doing the Julio Geordio sketch. That sketch now comes to mind every time I hear/read "Loach".
Although maybe the Jose Arrogantio sketch ..................?
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I see the usual mocking, 'discrediting' campaign which happens to anyone who dares to believe the McCanns has begun.
So predictable - and also completely irrational IMO.
So is your comment.
Totally predictable.
Ms. Loach didn't have a clue.
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who would you rather have on your team? Emma Loach
http://www.dragonfly.tv/team/emma-loach/41?page=1
or Sonia Poultin, Katie Hopkins, Jodie Marsh and Karen Danzcuk?
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who would you rather have on your team? Emma Loach
http://www.dragonfly.tv/team/emma-loach/41?page=1
or Sonia Poultin, Katie Hopkins, Jodie Marsh and Karen Danzcuk?
Is there transcript available of Ms. Loach's testimony from the Portuguese Court ?
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Yes... https://youtu.be/EpaiVpHOFKg?t=7m39s (https://youtu.be/EpaiVpHOFKg?t=7m39s)
Thanks.
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I see the usual mocking, 'discrediting' campaign which happens to anyone who dares to believe the McCanns has begun.
So predictable - and also completely irrational IMO.
It was obvious Emma Loach had made no attempt at objective research before appearing before the court in Lisbon. I actually felt rather sorry for her. She was obviously letting her heart rule her head. That people trust that the McCanns are telling the truth is not a smear on them but is rather silly if they are basing their evidence on that presumption.
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It was obvious Emma Loach had made no attempt at objective research before appearing before the court in Lisbon. I actually felt rather sorry for her. She was obviously letting her heart rule her head. That people trust that the McCanns are telling the truth is not a smear on them but is rather silly if they are basing their evidence on that presumption.
I trust one and distrust the other.
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The Sunday Times April 27, 2008
Emma Loach
Sharing the McCanns’ hell
This Saturday marks the first anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance. How have the McCanns coped?
Sitting at Kate and Gerry McCann’s kitchen table, watching their three-year-old twins Sean and Amelie playing on the floor, you could be observing any normal family scene. There are no histrionics. No weeping or wailing.
In the general melee of a family of four, it takes a few hours before the absence of their daughter hits you. But when it does, it is overwhelming. The crime that someone has committed against this family is colossal. Someone, somewhere, took Madeleine and in doing so they have come as close as anyone can to destroying the fabric of this family.
Until Madeleine is found, or someone comes forward to tell the McCanns what happened to their four-year-old daughter, they will be forever stuck just after 10pm on Thursday, May 3, 2007. It is a potential life sentence.
When I was initially asked to make a film about the McCanns, I didn’t immediately jump at the chance. I’d found it almost impossible to watch the news bulletins after Madeleine went missing and I didn’t want to make a film that merely indulged in witnessing at first hand her parents’ misery. And what could I say that hadn’t already been said?
I needn’t have worried. The McCanns, too, were uninterested in taking part in a “schlock doc”. They had a different agenda. For eight months they had been trying to ride the media train, with only one aim in mind – finding Madeleine – and every decision they had taken had had that goal at its heart. Now they had decided to add another one.
At our first meeting they talked about how much they had learnt about child abduction, how horrified they were and how they wanted to use their knowledge to try to make Europe a safer place for children. It seemed clear to me that they needed to find a more positive narrative for their lives. This new campaign, however long it might take, had the advantage of being both inextricably connected to finding Madeleine but different enough to provide some respite from the relentless pain.
Kate and Gerry were also well aware that the first anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance on Saturday would rekindle media interest. And they decided it might be productive to try to channel that interest into a campaign that could benefit others.
There were numerous areas that they felt needed attention. Many European countries, they had discovered, do not require Criminal Records Bureau checks on people who want to work with children; many do not have a sex offenders’ register and many do not even have an organisation that deals with missing people, let alone missing children.
Two areas stood out. Soon after Madeleine had gone missing, they had been shocked to find there were no data collected on how many children are abducted each year. The figures simply don’t exist. And it’s not just mainland Europe that doesn’t bother collating them; no one can say for sure how many children are abducted in the UK. Part of the reason is that cases of abduction that end in murder or rape are logged only under the more serious category headings, which means the scale of the problem isn’t recognised.
The McCanns became convinced of the need for “child-rescue alert” – a system that is used with great success in America. There, as soon as a child is abducted, police issue radio and television station alerts. Even more impressively, they can also text-message mobile phone users in the area where the child was last seen with descriptions they may have of the victim and abductor, car registration numbers and other pertinent information.
The first few hours after an abduction are known as the “golden hours” because they are so crucial. Of those children who are ultimately killed after being snatched, 74% are murdered in the first three hours. And 91% are killed in the first 24 hours.
However, only four out of the 27 countries in Europe have a US-style system in place. There is no “child-rescue alert” in Portugal, where Madeleine was taken. In Britain, where we do have an alert system, it has been used only three times since it was introduced in 1997.
Once we started researching alert systems with the McCanns, it quickly became clear that they serve little purpose unless those police officers who are first at the scene of a child abduction are properly trained.
We followed the McCanns as they spoke to experts in London, Brussels and Washington about the mechanics of child-rescue alerts. After each meeting in America, the couple were visibly buoyed. First there was Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart. Six years ago Elizabeth – then 14 – had been snatched from her bed. Her family had then worked tirelessly to keep her photograph in the papers and her story in the news. And for them it paid off: nine months later a passer-by spotted her with her abductor in the street.
She was reunited with her family – a living and breathing vindication of the tactic of keeping press attention high – for which the McCanns themselves have been criticised.
Some have even suggested that if Madeleine’s parents weren’t involved in her death, they probably killed her with the coverage – the implication being that their daughter’s abductor may have panicked at the attention the case was receiving and quickly disposed of her. So it was important to the McCanns to discover that Ed Smart had used the same strategy as they had; and in his case it had worked.
In Washington we also visited the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children – an impressive place, full of committed people who have the proper level of resources to combat child abduction. Since 1997, 393 children have been returned safely to their families because of a child-rescue alerts. And, in 33% of cases, the abductor actually gave up the child after seeing the alert himself.
There is no doubt in Kate’s and Gerry’s minds: these alerts save lives.
Crucially, the National Center has undertaken research that has given them fresh hope that Madeleine may still be alive. Even in the worst kind of kidnappings, just 40%-50% of children are murdered. The younger the child, the less likely that they will be seriously harmed.
The message from the statistics was loud and clear – until we know why Madeleine was taken and who took her, it cannot be assumed that she is dead. It was heartrending to see the McCanns’ hopes rising.
Over the course of four months we followed the couple as they researched child abduction issues and then launched their campaign at the European parliament in Brussels. There were many diversions along the way: more apparent sightings of Madeleine; venomous letters that dropped on the doormat and the leak of their first witness statements.
The McCanns have remained committed. Observing them has been a sobering experience. They live at the edge of human endurance, yet manage to survive. In fact they do more than survive. They are living. Their twins are almost obscenely happy, filling the house with love and laughter.
Kate and Gerry also remain strong. I was struck by how kind and generous they are and how they refuse to be defined by their tragedy. So as well as documenting their campaign for child-rescue alerts, I also wanted to show them as I found them – intelligent and brave but flawed, like everyone else I know. People who made a mistake – parents who made the wrong call.
Before Madeleine was taken, leaving your sleeping children while you ate dinner 50 yards away would have been a question of judgment. Some of us would have made the same decision as the McCanns, some of us wouldn’t. Thankfully, for the most part, our choices don’t lead to catastrophic events and so our parenting goes unscrutinised. For Kate and Gerry McCann, it did. And they are paying for that every second of every day.
I would not have thought it possible to survive the year that Kate and Gerry have just lived through. They have. I’m sure that friends who knew them before miss the people they were. But they resist being victims.
For now, they are determined to build something positive out of the hell of the past year. And they will never give up looking for Madeleine.
Madeleine, One Year On: Campaign for Change is being shown on ITV1 at 8pm on Wednesday
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic3430.html
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The Sunday Times April 27, 2008
Emma Loach
Sharing the McCanns’ hell
This Saturday marks the first anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance. How have the McCanns coped?
Sitting at Kate and Gerry McCann’s kitchen table, watching their three-year-old twins Sean and Amelie playing on the floor, you could be observing any normal family scene. There are no histrionics. No weeping or wailing.
In the general melee of a family of four, it takes a few hours before the absence of their daughter hits you. But when it does, it is overwhelming. The crime that someone has committed against this family is colossal. Someone, somewhere, took Madeleine and in doing so they have come as close as anyone can to destroying the fabric of this family.
Until Madeleine is found, or someone comes forward to tell the McCanns what happened to their four-year-old daughter, they will be forever stuck just after 10pm on Thursday, May 3, 2007. It is a potential life sentence.
When I was initially asked to make a film about the McCanns, I didn’t immediately jump at the chance. I’d found it almost impossible to watch the news bulletins after Madeleine went missing and I didn’t want to make a film that merely indulged in witnessing at first hand her parents’ misery. And what could I say that hadn’t already been said?
I needn’t have worried. The McCanns, too, were uninterested in taking part in a “schlock doc”. They had a different agenda. For eight months they had been trying to ride the media train, with only one aim in mind – finding Madeleine – and every decision they had taken had had that goal at its heart. Now they had decided to add another one.
At our first meeting they talked about how much they had learnt about child abduction, how horrified they were and how they wanted to use their knowledge to try to make Europe a safer place for children. It seemed clear to me that they needed to find a more positive narrative for their lives. This new campaign, however long it might take, had the advantage of being both inextricably connected to finding Madeleine but different enough to provide some respite from the relentless pain.
Kate and Gerry were also well aware that the first anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance on Saturday would rekindle media interest. And they decided it might be productive to try to channel that interest into a campaign that could benefit others.
There were numerous areas that they felt needed attention. Many European countries, they had discovered, do not require Criminal Records Bureau checks on people who want to work with children; many do not have a sex offenders’ register and many do not even have an organisation that deals with missing people, let alone missing children.
Two areas stood out. Soon after Madeleine had gone missing, they had been shocked to find there were no data collected on how many children are abducted each year. The figures simply don’t exist. And it’s not just mainland Europe that doesn’t bother collating them; no one can say for sure how many children are abducted in the UK. Part of the reason is that cases of abduction that end in murder or rape are logged only under the more serious category headings, which means the scale of the problem isn’t recognised.
The McCanns became convinced of the need for “child-rescue alert” – a system that is used with great success in America. There, as soon as a child is abducted, police issue radio and television station alerts. Even more impressively, they can also text-message mobile phone users in the area where the child was last seen with descriptions they may have of the victim and abductor, car registration numbers and other pertinent information.
The first few hours after an abduction are known as the “golden hours” because they are so crucial. Of those children who are ultimately killed after being snatched, 74% are murdered in the first three hours. And 91% are killed in the first 24 hours.
However, only four out of the 27 countries in Europe have a US-style system in place. There is no “child-rescue alert” in Portugal, where Madeleine was taken. In Britain, where we do have an alert system, it has been used only three times since it was introduced in 1997.
Once we started researching alert systems with the McCanns, it quickly became clear that they serve little purpose unless those police officers who are first at the scene of a child abduction are properly trained.
We followed the McCanns as they spoke to experts in London, Brussels and Washington about the mechanics of child-rescue alerts. After each meeting in America, the couple were visibly buoyed. First there was Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart. Six years ago Elizabeth – then 14 – had been snatched from her bed. Her family had then worked tirelessly to keep her photograph in the papers and her story in the news. And for them it paid off: nine months later a passer-by spotted her with her abductor in the street.
She was reunited with her family – a living and breathing vindication of the tactic of keeping press attention high – for which the McCanns themselves have been criticised.
Some have even suggested that if Madeleine’s parents weren’t involved in her death, they probably killed her with the coverage – the implication being that their daughter’s abductor may have panicked at the attention the case was receiving and quickly disposed of her. So it was important to the McCanns to discover that Ed Smart had used the same strategy as they had; and in his case it had worked.
In Washington we also visited the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children – an impressive place, full of committed people who have the proper level of resources to combat child abduction. Since 1997, 393 children have been returned safely to their families because of a child-rescue alerts. And, in 33% of cases, the abductor actually gave up the child after seeing the alert himself.
There is no doubt in Kate’s and Gerry’s minds: these alerts save lives.
Crucially, the National Center has undertaken research that has given them fresh hope that Madeleine may still be alive. Even in the worst kind of kidnappings, just 40%-50% of children are murdered. The younger the child, the less likely that they will be seriously harmed.
The message from the statistics was loud and clear – until we know why Madeleine was taken and who took her, it cannot be assumed that she is dead. It was heartrending to see the McCanns’ hopes rising.
Over the course of four months we followed the couple as they researched child abduction issues and then launched their campaign at the European parliament in Brussels. There were many diversions along the way: more apparent sightings of Madeleine; venomous letters that dropped on the doormat and the leak of their first witness statements.
The McCanns have remained committed. Observing them has been a sobering experience. They live at the edge of human endurance, yet manage to survive. In fact they do more than survive. They are living. Their twins are almost obscenely happy, filling the house with love and laughter.
Kate and Gerry also remain strong. I was struck by how kind and generous they are and how they refuse to be defined by their tragedy. So as well as documenting their campaign for child-rescue alerts, I also wanted to show them as I found them – intelligent and brave but flawed, like everyone else I know. People who made a mistake – parents who made the wrong call.
Before Madeleine was taken, leaving your sleeping children while you ate dinner 50 yards away would have been a question of judgment. Some of us would have made the same decision as the McCanns, some of us wouldn’t. Thankfully, for the most part, our choices don’t lead to catastrophic events and so our parenting goes unscrutinised. For Kate and Gerry McCann, it did. And they are paying for that every second of every day.
I would not have thought it possible to survive the year that Kate and Gerry have just lived through. They have. I’m sure that friends who knew them before miss the people they were. But they resist being victims.
For now, they are determined to build something positive out of the hell of the past year. And they will never give up looking for Madeleine.
Madeleine, One Year On: Campaign for Change is being shown on ITV1 at 8pm on Wednesday
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic3430.html
A friend of the Mccanns.
Second, the 'hell' was self imposed by their own actions.
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That was quite an important documentary for 3 of the Tapas 9 turned up to cover some reconstructions. Did you notice the girl's legs, the one being carried, were not hanging at the angle that appears on Jane's sketch?
It is also the one where Gerry turns the light on as he enters the room to check on Madeleine. (He seems to be specifically checking on Madeleine when he should really be checking on all 3 kids. So that to me suggests there was some concern for Madeleine specifically at that time of the night.
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BBC Radio Times
Madeleine, One Year On: Campaign for Change
* Posted at 2:34pm
* 01 May 2008
* by AlisonGraham-RT
I wonder what particular kind of viciously destructive bile courses through the insides of a person who’d bother to sit down, take up a pen, and scribble hate mail to Kate and Gerry McCann.
In a revelatory sequence during Emma Loach’s excellent, moving film, Madeleine, One Year On: Campaign for Change (Wednesday 30 April, 8:00pm, ITV1), the McCanns were seen sorting through their post. There was a box for the psychic sightings, another for messages from well-wishers and another for, well, the horrible stuff. And it was really horrible. Gerry McCann read the toxic “greeting” on a Christmas card in which the sender claimed their “brat” had been kidnapped because of her parents’ “drunken arrogance”.
But this is the 21st century, where everyone feels free to comment and to have a view on everything, particularly on things they know nothing about. Rolling news channels encourage halfwitted emails from the ill-informed, while that singular 21st century poison, the amateur blogger (because everyone’s a writer these days, too, aren’t they?), pours forth unfettered rubbish, aided by those playgrounds for the ungrammatical and the dim-witted, forums. Thus the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was turned by the internet into a fairy story, with a cherubic little princess at its heart, while her parents, and in particular her mother, were cast as the villains.
Kate McCann absolutely hit the nail on the head when she told Emma Loach: “We’re not just names, we’re not just characters.” Yes, right, because that’s what they were turned into, figures in a drama who weren’t quite real. Thus everyone who knew nothing felt equipped to contribute to the welter of grotesque conspiracy theories, taking no account that actual people were at the heart of this. Said Kate: “Bloggers and people on forums got some kind of kick out of being nasty.” She was being too nice.
The central crime – the snatching of a young child – became fogged by speculation and misguided sentimentality. To this day, Gerry and Kate McCann remain official suspects. Thus they are told nothing of the investigation’s progress. But they still have to function for the sake of their two other children and are pouring their energies into urging European countries to operate the American Amber Alert system when a child goes missing.
In the programme they were told by child abduction investigators not to give up on finding Madeleine alive. I’m not sure how they manage to get out of bed every day, particularly as the guilt of leaving their children alone that night obviously weighs heavily, but they do. Remorseless character assassinations and crackpot amateur theories aside, they continue to hope.
Alison Graham is TV editor of Radio Times.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9973.html
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This is the same Emma Loach who gave evidence in front of Judge Emilia at the libel trial. You remember surely? She turned up with an interpreter who was not up to the mark and Judge Emilia had to help out for the interpreter!
The same Emma Loach who claimed to know all about the case and then showed she didn't !.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Emma_Loach_12_09_2013.htm
I like that bit;
EL says that before the book was published nobody thought that Madeleine could have died in the apartment.
Madeleine 'died in her bedroom'
SCOTSMAN: 08 AUGUST 2007
Police admit Madeleine McCann might be dead
TELEGRAPH: 11 AUGUST 2007
Madeleine McCann police convinced she is dead
TELEGRAPH: 22 AUGUST 2007
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That was quite an important documentary for 3 of the Tapas 9 turned up to cover some reconstructions. Did you notice the girl's legs, the one being carried, were not hanging at the angle that appears on Jane's sketch?
It is also the one where Gerry turns the light on as he enters the room to check on Madeleine. (He seems to be specifically checking on Madeleine when he should really be checking on all 3 kids. So that to me suggests there was some concern for Madeleine specifically at that time of the night.
Did anyone agree?
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Did anyone agree?
I think it is a very important documentary but not necessarily because of the points you have highlighted.
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I think it is a very important documentary but not necessarily because of the points you have highlighted.
Important in what way?
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Actual photographs on this site http://atticshelf.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/mccann-v-amaral-12-sept-2013-emma-loach.html
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Important in what way?
If you care to state why you think the documentary "Madeleine Was Here" may not be of any importance ... or even why you think it may be, that would signal the start of a discussion.
That might possibly be of some interest to me and perhaps to the members who might wish to add their own observations and comments.
Question and answer sessions are not quite the same thing as far as I am concerned.
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That was quite an important documentary for 3 of the Tapas 9 turned up to cover some reconstructions. Did you notice the girl's legs, the one being carried, were not hanging at the angle that appears on Jane's sketch?
It is also the one where Gerry turns the light on as he enters the room to check on Madeleine. (He seems to be specifically checking on Madeleine when he should really be checking on all 3 kids. So that to me suggests there was some concern for Madeleine specifically at that time of the night.
Considering that Gerry reckoned the door to the bedroom had been moved, what could have caused that so early in the night? Combine that with Gerry turning on the light and specifically looking at Madeleine. When could any intruder feel confident to enter the apartment with all the friends still walking to the Tapas.
Could MM have been hurt between 8:30 and 9:00 and reported to Gerry which prompted two quickfire checks one by Matt and the other 5 minutes later by Gerry?
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Important in what way?
Well that lady and little girl taking doggies for walkies on 3/5 is actually quite informative if one pays attention.
Also how Channel 4 presented it is indicative of something.
"Madeleine Was Here
This Cutting Edge film follows Gerry McCann and his investigation team as they return to the Algarve apartment to reconstruct events from when his daughter Madeleine went missing"
I see they fight shy of the "a" word.
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In Loach's documentary Gerry checks the room at 9:05 and Madeleine is asleep in her bed.
Do you agree with that or not? Like is it possible Gerry was mistaken and she had actually died peacefully in her sleep.
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Is there transcript available of Ms. Loach's testimony from the Portuguese Court ?
Yes
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2300.msg75338#msg75338
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If you care to state why you think the documentary "Madeleine Was Here" may not be of any importance ... or even why you think it may be, that would signal the start of a discussion.
That might possibly be of some interest to me and perhaps to the members who might wish to add their own observations and comments.
Question and answer sessions are not quite the same thing as far as I am concerned.
Did I say Loach's documentary was not important ? I think not. I simply asked why you thought it was important.
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In Loach's documentary Gerry checks the room at 9:05 and Madeleine is asleep in her bed.
Do you agree with that or not? Like is it possible Gerry was mistaken and she had actually died peacefully in her sleep.
Can Amaral's theory include Gerry's 9:05 visit?
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Can Amaral's theory include Gerry's 9:05 visit?
amarals theory is based on his total ignorance of the value of the dog alerts and his total ignorance of the dna evidence...so his theory is based on total ignorance...but it seems it impresses some
amaral has claimed he can prove maddie died in the apartment.....he cannot.....that is a fact
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amarals theory is based on his total ignorance of the value of the dog alerts and his total ignorance of the dna evidence...so his theory is based on total ignorance...but it seems it impresses some
amaral has claimed he can prove maddie died in the apartment.....he cannot.....that is a fact
Can it marry to Gerry's 9:05 visit to the apartment?
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Not heard or seen this programme, something to watch this evening and catch up on
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Not heard or seen this programme, something to watch this evening and catch up on
I had not heard of Emma Loach till I began reading the background to the first trial McCann against Amaral.
Yet I have seen the documentary "Madeleine was here" several times.
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Thanks Brietta:
Scary stats to consider: "The first few hours after an abduction are known as the “golden hours” because they are so crucial. Of those children who are ultimately killed after being snatched, 74% are murdered in the first three hours. And 91% are killed in the first 24 hours".
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"Madeleine, One Year on Campaign for Change (2008)" by Emma Loach is harder to find on the internet. Does anyone know how to find it?
How safe would a site like this be? http://nachostime.org/ushq3zbqc4rr-madeleine-one-year-on-campaign-for-change
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"Madeleine, One Year on Campaign for Change (2008)" by Emma Loach is harder to find on the internet. Does anyone know how to find it?
It is rather elusive. If one Googles "Madeleine, One Year on Campaign for Change (2008)" by Emma Loach
There are three hits, one in Russian. But no link to a vdeo. The cast list is interesting.
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The film shows Gerry reading a Christmas greeting from one of his Anti-fans:
"How can you use money given by poor people in good faith to pay your mortgage on your mansion? You f....ing thieving b......s. Your brat is dead because of your drunken arrogance. Shame on you. I curse you and your family to suffer forever. Cursed Christmas. If you had any shame, you would accept full responsibility for your daughter's disappearance and give all the money back. You are s..m."
Who here among the McCanns' detractors would disagree with this sentiment 9 years on?
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The film shows Gerry reading a Christmas greeting from one of his Anti-fans:
"How can you use money given by poor people in good faith to pay your mortgage on your mansion? You f....ing thieving b......s. Your brat is dead because of your drunken arrogance. Shame on you. I curse you and your family to suffer forever. Cursed Christmas. If you had any shame, you would accept full responsibility for your daughter's disappearance and give all the money back. You are s..m."
Who here among the McCanns' detractors would disagree with this sentiment 9 years on?
Utterly shameful! How can anyone take time and effort to compose such hatred.
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The film shows Gerry reading a Christmas greeting from one of his Anti-fans:
"How can you use money given by poor people in good faith to pay your mortgage on your mansion? You f....ing thieving b......s. Your brat is dead because of your drunken arrogance. Shame on you. I curse you and your family to suffer forever. Cursed Christmas. If you had any shame, you would accept full responsibility for your daughter's disappearance and give all the money back. You are s..m."
Who here among the McCanns' detractors would disagree with this sentiment 9 years on?
I think your accusation is disgraceful. I have never seen anything on here that suggests people like that one are amongst us. Neither has anyone on here given you reason to assume that they would agree with such behaviour. I'm quite sure you understand by now that there's a wide variety of people interested in this case on both sides of the opinion divide. I think you do yourself no favours by making cheap shots at others who are obviously not how you try to portray them.
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Watched this through and it is a programme I hadn't seen before, thank you Robittybob1 for posting the You Tube links.
It's an insightful documentary and it left me in no doubt that Madeleine's parents desperately want her back. It also shines a light into how both Mr and Mrs McCann have been living since Madeleine's disappearance. I wasn't aware of the three witnesses who saw the man loitering near the apartment. This should have been a strong lead but clearly this man was never identified. It's certainly not evidence of an abduction but I do believe the two former detectives had very good reason to focus the reconstruction on this man.
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I think your accusation is disgraceful. I have never seen anything on here that suggests people like that one are amongst us. Neither has anyone on here given you reason to assume that they would agree with such behaviour. I'm quite sure you understand by now that there's a wide variety of people interested in this case on both sides of the opinion divide. I think you do yourself no favours by making cheap shots at others who are obviously not how you try to portray them.
" I feel the parents have shown themselves to be greedy, selfish, arrogant to a level of morality so low it could sink a ship.... They are wholly responsible for their daughters disappearance" - so said a member of this forum in February this year. Just one example of hundreds that echoes the sentiments expressed in the Christmas card.
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Who amongst McCann detractors disagrees with the sentiment that they are shameless and arrogant? I've seen it expressed many times. Who amongst McCann detractors disagrees with the sentiment that they only have themselves to blame? Again, it's said on this forum regularly. How many times has the subject of paying for the mortgage from the fund been voiced on this forum as a criticism? Many times by McCann detractors. How often do we hear about the poor people - the little children and hard-up pensioners - who paid into the Fund and who apparently now feel hard done by? More than once on this forum for sure. How many times have the McCanns been accused of failing to take responsibility for their child's disappearance on this forum? I lose count. So, don't get all high and mighty and holier-than-thou with me. The sentiments in the Christmas card, bar some effing and blinding, is pretty much in accord with sentiments I have seen expressed many many times before, including on this forum.
Excellent reply Alfie....absolutely true
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Will someone please define the term "McCann detractor".
Just so we know precisely what is meant.
Strictly speaking the term would mean someone who represents the McCanns as being of little worth.
Is that what is meant or is it a "Humpty Dumpty Expression" ie it means what ever the user wants it to mean at any given moment in time ?.
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Exactly what do these detractors hope to achieve? Some of whom appear to have organised themselves and have been in operation for nearly ten years now; some of whom are lone wolves feeding off people's misery.
Their aspirations can't be beneficial for Madeleine ... else why attack to bring down the only people who were proactively trying to find her ... her parents.
What deep rooted satisfaction is gained from slavishly following every opening to post exactly the same as you have been saying under every comment section in newspapers, under videos and wherever an opening presents itself?
Decidedly odd in my opinion.
Little wonder such behaviour has attracted the interest of academics and what an indictment of our use of the gift of modern technology. Surely we can do better than using it is to torture a couple who have already suffered so much and who seem to have confounded detractors by surviving it all.
ITV1 'Madeleine, One Year On' documentary
Gerry added: "But I mean the worst thing is that you can’t change any of that and it doesn't help find her.
"I think we’ve actually, despite you know our own guilt, we've tried to focus on what we can change and you know in the first few days you know obviously we focused much, much more on the negatives and it doesn't help.
"It doesn't help Madeleine, it doesn't help us and it doesn’t help find her."
Said Kate: "…As Gerry said, the guilt you feel for not being there and giving someone that opportunity, you know but then I just have to
kind of reel myself in and think you know I know how much I love Madeleine and I have no doubt that Madeleine knows how much I love her.
"I think – I mean I know that and I've just got to think regardless of what all those people say out there, you know those bloggers and people on the forums who obviously get some kind of kick out of being nasty, I know that and I know Madeleine knows that and I’ve just got to kind of keep hold of that really."
http://gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id453.htm
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Lump everyone who disbelieves the McCanns together. It makes it so much easier to make it look like a campaign.
As far as I am concerned - there has been a 10 year 'campaign' by some (not all) sceptics who when faced with the inconvenient fact that there is no evidence against the McCanns or their friends, have decided to devote their time to conducting the most vicious character assassination against them. The 'logic' behind that appears to be that if they can prove what a wicked, greedy, evil, lying couple they are - then it must be them wotdunnnit.
Unfortunately for that group of sceptics, during the last 10 years not a shred of evidence has emerged regarding the McCanns private lives to confirm that description of them. In fact quite the opposite has been the case imo.
The answer to that problem appears to be to 'trash' everything they say and do - and also to 'trash' any person who dares to say anything which threatens the description of the McCanns which they want people to believe.
The fact that Emma Loach, who was stranger to the McCanns - but who - after eventually meeting and spending time with them was able to form her opinions on a one to one basis, should be recognised by all reasonable people as having credence imo.
However, the habit of immediately dismissing anyone and anything that is even remotely positive about the McCanns is so entrenched in some quarters that all reasoned logic has also been 'trashed' along the way.
AIMHO.
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As far as I am concerned - there has been a 10 year 'campaign' by some (not all) sceptics who when faced with the inconvenient fact that there is no evidence against the McCanns or their friends, have decided to devote their time to conducting the most vicious character assassination against them. The 'logic' behind that appears to be that if they can prove what a wicked, greedy, evil, lying couple they are - then it must be them wotdunnnit.
Unfortunately for that group of sceptics, during the last 10 years not a shred of evidence has emerged regarding the McCanns private lives to confirm that description of them. In fact quite the opposite has been the case imo.
The answer to that problem appears to be to 'trash' everything they say and do - and also to 'trash' any person who dares to say anything which threatens the description of the McCanns which they want people to believe.
The fact that Emma Loach, who was stranger to the McCanns - but who - after eventually meeting and spending time with them was able to form her opinions on a one to one basis, should be recognised by all reasonable people as having credence imo.
However, the habit of immediately dismissing anything even remotely positive about the McCanns is so entrenched in some quarters that all reasoned logic has also been 'trashed' along the way.
AIMHO.
Tell me Benice, are you happy that some of your fellow supporters trash people such as Amaral and Grime, still, on a regular basis ?
Loach of course, only saw them after the event.
Has she criticized them for what they did ?
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Not necessary for they admit they made a mistake.
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It is very easy to wander off topic and nobody does it more than I do. However despite only two documentaries on Madeleine McCann's case (as far as I can see) associated with Emma Loach, I think there is plenty of material there for discussion by members.
The mods cannot move comments to appropriate threads; we can only modify or delete. Therefore some good points can be in danger of getting lost if the discussion moves too far from the thread title and we start making draconian deletions.
On the other hand the thread should reflect as far as is possible the title it goes under. It is a fine line to tread.
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In order to get it back on track I am refreshing the documentary and a point I just heard was that the files released to the public were all in Portuguese and cost the McCanns around 100,000 pounds to translate them. The judges often make the point the files were released to the public but they were not that much use to those in the UK till they were translated.
In fact isn't that point plus the intense dedication on Kate's part of going through the files reading them show innocence. Show me a guilty person spending that sort of money and time!
The First Instance Judge was concerned with what was released to the public in Portugal. As far as she was concerned the files were disseminated for the benefit of the Portuguese public. The fact that English, French or German speakers took an interest in the case is neither here nor there.
Now as Brietta points out, can we get back to topic.
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The First Instance Judge was concerned with what was released to the public in Portugal. As far as she was concerned the files were disseminated for the benefit of the Portuguese public.
Did the McCanns criticise the investigation on the Portuguese media? I have generally seen them really concerned not to break the Judicial Secrecy rules.
Did the Judicial Secrecy rules terminate once the case was archived? Even later I don't see the McCanns criticising the investigation to any great extent.
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Wouldn't it be a scandal if an abductor was mentioned in the file but hadn't had a visit from the PJ yet.
Where is the example of a guilty person doing such a thing? I can't think of another example but there are plenty examples of murders of a spouse and the third party moves into the vacancy real quickly.
Both classic lines of investigation. Maybe that is how an inspector works; thinking up these weird possibilities.
You jest I hope, Robbitty.
No serious investigator would operate like that. Scenarios may suggest themselves ... but only if there is something which is indicative. If it is not evidence led a theory is worthless just as it is never set in tablets of stone. It evolves as more evidence is found.
Watching the detectives work in the documentary, Madeleine Was Here and listening to what they had to say as they learned more about the case confirms that opinion as far as I am concerned.
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You jest I hope, Robbitty.
No serious investigator would operate like that. Scenarios may suggest themselves ... but only if there is something which is indicative. If it is not evidence led a theory is worthless just as it is never set in tablets of stone. It evolves as more evidence is found.
Watching the detectives work in the documentary, Madeleine Was Here and listening to what they had to say as they learned more about the case confirms that opinion as far as I am concerned.
I wasn't joking, not this time in the morning, but I found the coffin theory bizarre.
[But the reference now seems to be missing.]
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In the Emma Loach (EL) documentary it states the files released to the public were all in Portuguese and cost the McCanns around 100,000 pounds to translate them. The judges often make the point the files were released to the public but they were not that much use to those in the UK till they were translated.
In fact isn't that point plus the intense dedication on Kate's part of going through the files reading them (also mentioned in the EL documentary) show innocence. Can anyone show me a guilty person spending that sort of money and time on a case!
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In the Emma Loach (EL) documentary it states the files released to the public were all in Portuguese and cost the McCanns around 100,000 pounds to translate them. The judges often make the point the files were released to the public but they were not that much use to those in the UK till they were translated.
In fact isn't that point plus the intense dedication on Kate's part of going through the files reading them (also mentioned in the EL documentary) show innocence. Can anyone show me a guilty person spending that sort of money and time on a case!
Firstly it wasn't her money and secondly anyone wanting cover her sorry *rse would do the same to find out what the PJ might have.
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Firstly it wasn't her money and secondly anyone wanting cover her sorry *rse would do the same to find out what the PJ might have.
Is that what you would have done Dear Jassi?
They could have taken several good trips abroad with that sort of money "searching for Madeleine".
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In the Emma Loach (EL) documentary Kate points out from her study of the files the similarity of the Smithman to the Tannerman.
Was this followed up by the PJ properly. Had Smithman been identified? No so obviously she was pointing out a gap in the investigation.
https://youtu.be/fRQQWmpiO3s?t=284
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Is that what you would have done Dear Jassi?
They could have taken several good trips abroad with that sort of money "searching for Madeleine".
Knowing what was in the files was much more pressing. Others could be fooled into doing the searching for them.
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Knowing what was in the files was much more pressing. Others could be fooled into doing the searching for them.
No one is searching for Madeleine at that stage. The Portuguese had archived the case, and Scotland Yard may not have taken up the role as yet. So they put in their own investigators mentioned in the Documentary.
There is no one fooling anyone.
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No one is searching for Madeleine at that stage. The Portuguese had archived the case, and Scotland Yard may not have taken up the role as yet. So they put in their own investigators mentioned in the Documentary.
There is no one fooling anyone.
The public were being fooled into searching
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The public were being fooled into searching
Just being asked to keep your eyes open! Have you ever looked at someone twice wondering if they could be Madeleine? Is that being fooled? Only if the McCanns knew that wasn't the case and where is the proof of that?
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Just being asked to keep your eyes open! Have you ever looked at someone twice wondering if they could be Madeleine? Is that being fooled? Only if the McCanns knew that wasn't the case and where is the proof of that?
No
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No
OK some hard nuts might not, but I think from memory I have, thinking what she may look like now 10 years later.