The net curtains being light would not take too much breeze to make them woosh. For a long time it hasn't been appreciated that there were net curtains involved. This has been the result of the photo on file where no net curtains are visible at all.
Would the police photographer have pushed the net curtains so that the state of the window and shutters are visible?
I assume that when the family arrived the shutters and curtains were open. The nets were probably closed for privacy. They closed the shutters and curtains and the closed curtains flew up on 3rd. Kate is quite clear in her book.
I very much doubt that the police photographer moved anything. His job was to record the scene as the police found it, not to rearrange it. If the curtains and nets were opened it wasn't by him imo.
On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from
the inside, and closed the curtains. We left them that way all week.....
As I ran back into the children’s room the closed curtains flew up in a gust of wind. My heart lurched as I saw now that, behind them, the window was wide open and the shutters on the outside raised all the way up. [Madeleine]
I assume that when the family arrived the shutters and curtains were open. The nets were probably closed for privacy. They closed the shutters and curtains and the closed curtains flew up on 3rd. Kate is quite clear in her book.That photo shows the nets showing, the window pane is removed and on the floor and the long drapes have been moved.
I very much doubt that the police photographer moved anything. His job was to record the scene as the police found it, not to rearrange it. If the curtains and nets were opened it wasn't by him imo.
On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from
the inside, and closed the curtains. We left them that way all week.....
As I ran back into the children’s room the closed curtains flew up in a gust of wind. My heart lurched as I saw now that, behind them, the window was wide open and the shutters on the outside raised all the way up. [Madeleine]
All just minor details. But it all sounds perfectly logical to me. Someone other than The McCanns opened the window and the shutters.
I simply don't understand why anyone would think that Kate McCann made this up.
If The McCanns wanted to stage an abduction then all they had to do was to pretend that Madeleine had been abducted during the night when they were all asleep.
This isn't even rocket science.
I couldn't agree more Eleanor, and who in their right mind would devise a plan which was designed to start at the end of the day when everyone was tired out after being up and about for around 15 hours.
They would all have to be as thick as two planks to go along with such a dicey plan - when such a simple alternative was staring them in the face.
The very idea that 7 normal, sane, ordinary people would ever agree to be involved in a plan to cover up the death and disposal of a child in the first place is nonsense AFAIAC.
IMO
This particular little world has all gone mad, Benice. The logic of truth is as plain as day. Madeleine was abducted. And not just in my opinion.
All just minor details. But it all sounds perfectly logical to me. Someone other than The McCanns opened the window and the shutters.
I simply don't understand why anyone would think that Kate McCann made this up.
If The McCanns wanted to stage an abduction then all they had to do was to pretend that Madeleine had been abducted during the night when they were all asleep.
This isn't even rocket science.
How do the scenarios differ? In one the parents are not there, they are elsewhere with alibis. In the other they are present with no alibis.
In one scenario the parents can be blamed for leaving the children. In the other they cannot.
PS. Children have been abducted while their parents were asleep. Many times, as it happens.
Leaving three children under four years-of-age alone in an unlocked apartment was the epitome of stupidity. As stated previously, some people leave their common sense at passport control when they go abroad.
we are looking at something even more simpler who moved the nets? Kate says the curtains were closed yet they are photographed open and the nets are fully hidden behind the drapes. Who hid the nets behind the drapes?
Leaving three children under four years-of-age alone in an unlocked apartment was the epitome of stupidity. As stated previously, some people leave their common sense at passport control when they go abroad.I agree with you John
In one scenario the parents can be blamed for leaving the children. In the other they cannot.
PS. Children have been abducted while their parents were asleep. Many times, as it happens.
According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children it's exceptionally rare.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865558906/Child-abductions-from-homes-exceptionally-rare-expert-says.html
According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children it's exceptionally rare.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865558906/Child-abductions-from-homes-exceptionally-rare-expert-says.html
It might not have been very sensible, but hardly the best scenario to fake an abduction.
Leaving three children under four years-of-age alone in an unlocked apartment was the epitome of stupidity. As stated previously, some people leave their common sense at passport control when they go abroad.The only entrance that the Mccanns were aware of, which was unlocked was the patio door .. and that was illuminated from the street light opposite and was overlooked by the tapas friends in the restaurant which was 50 metres away .... and was effectively the main rear garden to block 5
The only entrance that the Mccanns were aware of, which was unlocked was the patio door .. and that was illuminated from the street light opposite and was overlooked by the tapas friends in the restaurant which was 50 metres away .... and was effectively the main rear garden to block 5
Even Amaral said that no perp. would go in by that route because it was lit, too close and in view of the group /parents.
As Brits unused to roller shutters, The Mccanns thought that if the shutter was down, then from the ouitside it was impossible to open it. That was patently wrong
We dont know if the bedroom window was left unlatched, or not. It might have been unlatched by a perp from inside, or outside.
AIMO
You know John, in innocence people can be stupid, which they realise afterwards. I well remember that someone on here once bragged about how they never had any crying problems with their babies cos they took them into bed with them all night if they cried. That is a NO NO in baby rearing circles.
How lucky they were that their babies were not smothered in the night.
Hindsight is wonderful.
We all make mistakes but are lucky and not criticized for ever after.
We ALL make mistakes but thank Gaod we are not criticized and destroyed for the rest of our lives
Some interesting points there Sadie. I must admit our sons mostly stayed in the parental bed when they were babies but then that was our choice and the natural way to do things. When away from home we would never have contemplated for a moment leaving young children alone and unattended in a strange hotel room or apartment. Its a very selfish thing to do imo.
I agree with you John
It just didn't seem stupid to them at the time
People do stupid things
Children sitting on laps in cars
Most get away with doing stupid things
The McCanns were very unlucky
People in certain occupations (police, doctors and nurses for eg) know more about child protection than others do. They see, deal with and treat the results of parental inattention and carelessness all the time. They are trained in these matters.
I find it very difficult to believe that people in those professions leave all their training and experience at passport control as well as their common sense.
I totally agree. It is an altogether puzzling mystery but we have to be guided by the clues as exist.
Having babies in bed with parents can be quite dangerous
They thought it was safe
I've done it and I thought it was safe
Lots of people have done similar
As I have said people sit in cars with children on their lap
People sleep with babies in there bed
You just have to be the unlucky one
They thought it was safe
I've done it and I thought it was safe
Lots of people have done similar
As I have said people sit in cars with children on their lap
People sleep with babies in there bed
You just have to be the unlucky one
Isn't sitting a child on your lap in a car , whilst in motion or otherwise, a criminal offense ?
They thought it was safe
I've done it and I thought it was safe
Lots of people have done similar
As I have said people sit in cars with children on their lap
People sleep with babies in there bed
You just have to be the unlucky one
Perhaps someone can explain to me , how leaving small children by themselves, with the odd brief check and not protected, in insecure accomodation in a foreign country (or in your own country), is a safe thing to do ?I shudder now and I was very worried then. Our children didn't have safety belts in the car. The Law didn't specify them and hubby thought them totally unnecessary. I had no money so was unable to provide them.
Everyone makes mistakes Eleanor.
However, some do admit that and don't blame others for what they themselves have done wrong.
e.g. I heard a little earlier, the leader of the Council in Kensington and Chelsea, blame the tenants in the apartment block for not installing sprinkler systems. He didn't admit, surprisingly enough, that the government, let alone that council had been told by engineers and surveyors, not to install the cladding on the building, which had been shown to be as fire hazard and banned in other countries.
Off Topic. Please do not pursue this. Thank You.
I don't need to and I won't.
It's all over the news.
Isn't sitting a child on your lap in a car , whilst in motion or otherwise, a criminal offense ?It is now but when I was a child it was what happened. We used to travel on the back of the truck as well, three kids sat down with a blanket behind the cab while mum and dad were in the front dad driving and the twins on mum's lap. No safety belts in those days.
Perhaps someone can explain to me , how leaving small children by themselves, with the odd brief check and not protected, in insecure accomodation in a foreign country (or in your own country), is a safe thing to do ?
Kate McCann didn't even think about it;
"If I'd had to think for one second about it, it wouldn't have happened. I never even had to think like that, to make the decision. It felt so safe that I didn't even have to - I mean, I don't think we took a risk.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleines-parents-we-were-wrong-to-believe-she-was-safe-alone-6610698.html
Kate McCann didn't even think about it;Was this common practice at OC in PdL? The Tapas 9 had booked a table for the week against normal policy and it was written in note form at the reception of some place, so if it was such an unusual practice why didn't someone warn Kate?
"If I'd had to think for one second about it, it wouldn't have happened. I never even had to think like that, to make the decision. It felt so safe that I didn't even have to - I mean, I don't think we took a risk.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleines-parents-we-were-wrong-to-believe-she-was-safe-alone-6610698.html
It is now but when I was a child it was what happened. We used to travel on the back of the truck as well, three kids sat down with a blanket behind the cab while mum and dad were in the front dad driving and the twins on mum's lap. No safety belts in those days.I dont think many cars had safety belts at all in the days that mine were babies/young children. I can remember it becoming Law later that the driver and passengers must have safety belts ... and the uproar as some (stupid) people refused to conform.
I dont think many cars had safety belts at all in the days that mine were babies/young children. I can remember it becoming Law later that the driver and passengers must have safety belts ... and the uproar as some (stupid) people refused to conform.
However a friend had child car seats with restraints and I desperately wanted them for my children. The traffic wasn't so heavy then and I guess I/we were pretty OK drivers cos despite driving to and thru London etc we never had a bump. Not many women drove in those days.
I made several mistakes with my children, but I was aware and never took them as babies into our bed. Our son was a dreadful sleeper and I was up all thru the night walking and rocking him or lieing on the carpet by his cot patting him. It left me like a zombie in the daytime but after seven years and specialists treatment (they did no good, but eventually put him on phenobarbitrates YIKE! ... I didn't give them to him) suddenly he started sleeping .... Bliss
Nobody, NOBODY ever held my mistakes against me.
FGS the way some of you keep putting the boot into Tha Mccanns is absolutely appalling
And BTW, Sstephen , it was not immediate but The Mccanns very resoundingly expressed their regret at the mistake they had made.
I think that they (at least Kate) had experienced holidays as children themselves where the BUTLINS type checking was considered OK ... and it took them a while to comprehend the situation fully.
Kates dad talks about his daughter and son in Law and their "CHALET" in Praia de Luz. I think it is in his statement.
BUTLINS Child Checking Service was a member of staff cycling around and listening at each chalet every half hour. The parents were not involved and could be anywhere on the Butlins site. Some of them were pretty massive. My understanding is that they were called back if their child was crying.
The duty of taking care of your own children when they are in your charge is with the parents, no one else.
Remember that when arguing the toss about the tragic situation this week, won't you?
I dont think many cars had safety belts at all in the days that mine were babies/young children. I can remember it becoming Law later that the driver and passengers must have safety belts ... and the uproar as some (stupid) people refused to conform.
However a friend had child car seats with restraints and I desperately wanted them for my children. The traffic wasn't so heavy then and I guess I/we were pretty OK drivers cos despite driving to and thru London etc we never had a bump. Not many women drove in those days.
I made several mistakes with my children, but I was aware and never took them as babies into our bed. Our son was a dreadful sleeper and I was up all thru the night walking and rocking him or lieing on the carpet by his cot patting him. It left me like a zombie in the daytime but after seven years and specialists treatment (they did no good, but eventually put him on phenobarbitrates YIKE! ... I didn't give them to him) suddenly he started sleeping .... Bliss
Nobody, NOBODY ever held my mistakes against me.
FGS the way some of you keep putting the boot into Tha Mccanns is absolutely appalling
And BTW, Sstephen , it was not immediate but The Mccanns very resoundingly expressed their regret at the mistake they had made.
I think that they (at least Kate) had experienced holidays as children themselves where the BUTLINS type checking was considered OK ... and it took them a while to comprehend the situation fully.
Kates dad talks about his daughter and son in Law and their "CHALET" in Praia de Luz. I think it is in his statement.
BUTLINS Child Checking Service was a member of staff cycling around and listening at each chalet every half hour. The parents were not involved and could be anywhere on the Butlins site. Some of them were pretty massive. My understanding is that they were called back if their child was crying.
Butlins now think that using nurseries and baby listening services is somewhat old fashioned;
During the 1940s the attitude towards child care and holidaying as a family was very different to today. Parents would often prefer for someone to look after their children for a couple of hours whilst they enjoyed some time to themselves, a rare thing in these times.....Recognising this and hoping to create a solution, Billy asked one of the team, Anna Hayter, to organise child care for children aged between 2-5 years and with that the first nursery centre was created at Clacton in 1946.....Today we no longer have nurseries on resort as we understand that families needs have changed....Another service welcomed by parents of the 1940s & 1950s was the baby listening service.
http://blog.butlins.com/2016/04/08/80years-of-tots/
... and it seems this Baby Listening Service continued into the 80's.
Kate and Gerry were both born in the mid to late 60's
Kates father talked about CHALETS in his ?statement, so it seems that Kate (and possibly Gerry) may have experienced the baby/child Listening Service when she/they were children. If so and it had been the norm in their childhood, why would she/they see any wrong in it?
After all their checks were better than the Butlins checks, they went inside the flat against listening outside by a stranger at Butlins. The group of friends also had a good view at 50 metres of the illuminated patio where a stranger had to pass thru to get in. They (erroniusly) believed the front of the house to be secure. They must have felt that their method was pretty good ..., and it was relative to the Butlins service
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100303074132AABr8ay&page=1
At butlins in the eighties, I never used it as I thought my children should be with me, and perverts haven't just suddenly appeared, they have been around always. The person walking around listening for a child crying could have easily been one. It's a very sad world we live in, and I think the focus should be taken off the McCanns, and onto the disgusting perverts we have to have living amongst us! These people were loving parents, not chain smoking, cannabis taking, useless excuses for parents that we have to put up with in this country! Spending all their dole money on drink and drugs, never even taking their children for a day out, let alone a family holiday! But, as usual, the very shallow people go for the easy targets.Phew, thank goodness I got all that lot out. XXX
... and it seems this Baby Listening Service continued into the 80's.
Kate and Gerry were both born in the mid to late 60's
Kates father talked about CHALETS in his ?statement, so it seems that Kate (and possibly Gerry) may have experienced the baby/child Listening Service when she/they were children. If so and it had been the norm in their childhood, why would she/they see any wrong in it?
After all their checks were better than the Butlins checks, they went inside the flat against listening outside by a stranger at Butlins. The group of friends also had a good view at 50 metres of the illuminated patio where a stranger had to pass thru to get in. They (erroniusly) believed the front of the house to be secure. They must have felt that their method was pretty good ..., and it was relative to the Butlins service
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100303074132AABr8ay&page=1
At butlins in the eighties, I never used it as I thought my children should be with me, and perverts haven't just suddenly appeared, they have been around always. The person walking around listening for a child crying could have easily been one. It's a very sad world we live in, and I think the focus should be taken off the McCanns, and onto the disgusting perverts we have to have living amongst us! These people were loving parents, not chain smoking, cannabis taking, useless excuses for parents that we have to put up with in this country! Spending all their dole money on drink and drugs, never even taking their children for a day out, let alone a family holiday! But, as usual, the very shallow people go for the easy targets.Phew, thank goodness I got all that lot out. XXX
I assume that when the family arrived the shutters and curtains were open. The nets were probably closed for privacy. They closed the shutters and curtains and the closed curtains flew up on 3rd. Kate is quite clear in her book."As I ran back into the children’s room the closed curtains flew up in a gust of wind. My heart lurched as I saw now that, behind them, the window was wide open and the shutters on the outside raised all the way up. [Madeleine]" If the heavy drape curtains "flew up" when they settled down they would fall over the bed and the chair, so I can't imagine the strength of the wind that would enable that to happen, so I can only accept that it was the net curtains that raised in the breeze.
I very much doubt that the police photographer moved anything. His job was to record the scene as the police found it, not to rearrange it. If the curtains and nets were opened it wasn't by him imo.
On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from
the inside, and closed the curtains. We left them that way all week.....
As I ran back into the children’s room the closed curtains flew up in a gust of wind. My heart lurched as I saw now that, behind them, the window was wide open and the shutters on the outside raised all the way up. [Madeleine]
Kate's father could just as easily been thinking of Mark Warner when he said 'chalet'. They made their name offering chalet holidays to skiers.
Leaving the door unlocked means the children were not being cared for as if there was a listening service.
No-one was watching the apartments, and even if they glanced over Rchael said they could only see the top of the patio doors.
They never even thought about the front or they would have made sure to lock the front door and window.
I get the impression that to be a loving parent you have to be a non-smoking, non-drinking, non-drug taking working person with enough money to pay for family holidays.
Love can be found in the poorest households, Sadie, and family holidays are not an indicator that it exists. Love is putting the other person's needs before your own, spending time with them, listening to them and having fun together. IMO.
....and accepting that even the most loving parents can make mistakes - as A&E depts in every hospital can testify on a daily basis.
It's obvious to me that Madeleine was truly wanted, loved and adored by her parents. This loving, happy family was in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO - in the same way that Ben Needham, Sara Payne and Jamie Bulger's families, amongst others, also were.
All those children's parents have suffered criticism and denigration by some. None of it even remotely deserved IMO. It's just plain cruel.
It's noticeable that the parents of other abducted children who have met with or spoken to the McCanns all support them and believe that Madeleine was a abducted. If anyone could spot a fake it would be those people IMO. They couldn't be more expert on the subject if they tried.
IMO
"As I ran back into the children’s room the closed curtains flew up in a gust of wind. My heart lurched as I saw now that, behind them, the window was wide open and the shutters on the outside raised all the way up. [Madeleine]" If the heavy drape curtains "flew up" when they settled down they would fall over the bed and the chair, so I can't imagine the strength of the wind that would enable that to happen, so I can only accept that it was the net curtains that raised in the breeze.
It could be Kate that opened the nets for she seems to admit at least looking behind them "I saw now that, behind them, the window was wide open and the shutters on the outside raised all the way up".
If an A & E doctor discovered that a child was injured because it's parents had gone out and left it home alone would he or she see that as a mistake or a worrying error of judgement?
I would be interested in exactly what convinces you that the McCanns wanted, loved and adored MBM.
If an A & E doctor discovered that a child was injured because it's parents had gone out and left it home alone would he or she see that as a mistake or a worrying error of judgement?
I would be interested in exactly what convinces you that the McCanns wanted, loved and adored MBM.
You have said previously that in your opinion Kate told the truth. She has said the curtains were closed and they whooshed in the wind. You have spotted that it's unlikely that the wind could blow those curtains up like she says it did. So now you're saying she said curtains but meant nets? Do you have any reason to suppose she doesn't know the difference between curtains and nets? Most people do. Theories should follow evidence, not change it.It is a bit confusing if it all happened as Kate says so how can we make sense out of it?
....and accepting that even the most loving parents can make mistakes - as A&E depts in every hospital can testify on a daily basis.
It's obvious to me that Madeleine was truly wanted, loved and adored by her parents. This loving, happy family was in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO - in the same way that Ben Needham, Sara Payne and Jamie Bulger's families, amongst others, also were.
All those children's parents have suffered criticism and denigration by some. None of it even remotely deserved IMO. It's just plain cruel.
It's noticeable that the parents of other abducted children who have met with or spoken to the McCanns all support them and believe that Madeleine was a abducted. If anyone could spot a fake it would be those people IMO. They couldn't be more expert on the subject if they tried.
IMO
The McCann's made the same 'mistake' for every night they were there.
It wasn't a one off.
It was a deliberate action, because they thought they knew better.
(https://unalettricedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/4c9dfc54f2f90f2319feeb46ec9389e7.jpg?w=201)To get back to the topic ... which refers to the fact that Kate McCann was alerted to the fact that there was something amiss ... when she saw the curtains in Madeleine's bed room being blown by a gust of air.
I fail to see what the problem is and why we require an in depth discussion. The internet is full of illustrations of curtains blowing in the breeze at open windows ... so no great mystery there.
We do not know for a fact, the window was open.
The police believed that the McCanns are telling the truth
That's what's important
...and how many police didn't or don't believe the McCann's ?
The police who matter do! imo.imo.
I would bet my house that the majority of parents of children who end up in A&E are essentially to blame - either because they took their eye off the ball,or they made an error of judgement etc etc. Fortunately not being a perfect parent at all times isn't a crime in this country. Unless your name is McCann of course.
The McCanns tried for a family for years - and then eventually resorted to IVF. Surely that in itself is a measure of their deep longing for a child. They were so delighted to have Madeleine - they decided to have more children.
There are loads of family photographs showing what a lovely life Madeleine had - some would say 'privileged' compared to many other children. The McCann's joy at being parents also shines through many photos - and videos imo.
Not a single person who actually knows them has a bad word to say about them - either as parents or people. Quite the opposite in fact.
Anyone who has any doubts that Madeleine was not wanted, loved and adored needs to back it up with evidence IMO.
There are many dangers in life and even the most careful parent can't have eyes in the back of their heads. It takes just a moment for a child to have an accident.
On the other hand, leaving three small children unsupervised in an unlocked apartment for four evenings on the trot is a conscious decision to take your eye off the ball. You have decided to leave those children alone despite the fact that they can access all the various dangers in the home. They can also get out and access other dangers. It's not a mistake it's a sign of bad judgement.
Your 'evidence' that MBM was wanted, loved and adored consists of;
IVF treatment was used.
OK, I agree they wanted a child.
They did it again 'because they were delighted to have Madeleine'
Was that the reason? I don't know and, I suspect, neither do you.
Photo's and videos of MBM's life.
You have given your interpretation of this evidence. Others have interpreted it differently.
Friends and relatives didn't criticise them.
They were unlikely to do so; at least publicly, considering the circumstances.
You ask for evidence which might create doubt, but seem unable to produce incontrovertible evidence to support your claims.
And you haven't produced evidence of what you appear to believe.
...and how many police didn't or don't believe the McCann's ?
I haven't said what I believe. I am debating what others believe and asking why they believe it. So far their evidence is sparse imo.It's not worthy of debate
...and what have these police 'who matter' achieved ?
More than those who do not matter. imo imo
More than those who do not matter. imo imo
SY consider the McCanns are not suspects
That's all that matters
SY consider the McCanns are not suspects
That's all that matters
Suspect of what exactly?
Not suspects in the disappearance of Maddie as SY consider Maddie was abducted
Ah yes, the entity whose existence has not been proved.
...and what have these police 'who matter' achieved ?
We don't know
But at least the poor parents have been ruled out
Ah yes, the entity whose existence has not been proved.
As Rowley admitted;
"we don’t have definitive evidence about what happened to Madeleine."
Not to worry though;
"Until we get to the point where we have solved it, we’re unlikely to have definitive evidence as to exactly what happened at the time."
Even so, he says he does know what happened to Madeleine;
"However she left that apartment, she has been abducted."
So they know she's been abducted, despite having no evidence of what happened to her. Clever these Met police aren't they?
Indeed G-Unit.
They claim to know what happened, but don't know what happened.
Very inciteful.
The McCann's made the same 'mistake' for every night they were there until and including the night Madeleine 'disappeared'.
It wasn't a one off.
It was a deliberate action, because they thought they knew better.
But McCanns are not suspects so everything is OKNever a truer word spoken, Jassie; the pity of it is that it has all got lost within the deluge of trivia which was designed in my opinion with the definite intent of denigrating Madeleine McCann's parents.
Never a truer word spoken, Jassie; the pity of it is that it has all got lost within the deluge of trivia which was designed in my opinion with the definite intent of denigrating Madeleine McCann's parents.
A prime example of which is the doubt cast on Jane Tanner's sighting of the man carrying a child and as we are discussing here, how high do curtains blow in a gust of wind or air.
Way back in 2008 it was being reported that ...
PJ volta a acreditar no rapto de Maddie
PJ re-believes Maddie's abduction
03.05.2008 at 5:00 p.m
The Judiciary Police (PJ) is preparing to release the McCann couple from any involvement in the death and disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.
A year of investigations was not enough to gather evidence or strong evidence to support an indictment against Kate and Gerry.
According to an official of the PJ, the analysis of the testimony of the seven friends of the couple, collected last month in England, "did not detect contradictions that can not be solved."
More: the biological traces found in the apartment and in the car rented by the McCanns are insufficient to support the thesis of accidental murder and subsequent concealment of the child's corpse, which disappeared today a year ago.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/dossies/dossiest_actualidade/dos_madeleine_mccan/pj-volta-a-acreditar-no-rapto-de-maddie=f310393
As Mulder would say "The truth is out there." One can only wonder at the way it has got lost in a sea of misinformation and propaganda.
The McCanns made one mistake and that was to believe that their childcare arrangements were safe. Thousands upon thousands of other parents have done the same on holiday - with no ill effects on their children.
Hindsight with it's 20/20 vision is indeed a wonderful thing - just as it is so easy to be wise after the event. Both being perfect descriptions of the pious attitude of many sceptics IMO.
AIMHO
The result of spending too much time going into the minutiae of the minutiae tends to be that folk end up not being able to see the wood for the trees IMO.
The McCanns made one mistake and that was to believe that their childcare arrangements were safe. Thousands upon thousands of other parents have done the same on holiday - with no ill effects on their children.They didn't make just the one mistake though.
Hindsight with it's 20/20 vision is indeed a wonderful thing - just as it is so easy to be wise after the event. Both being perfect descriptions of the pious attitude of many sceptics IMO.
AIMHO
I haven't said what I believe. I am debating what others believe and asking why they believe it. So far their evidence is sparse imo.
They didn't make just the one mistake though.
Were those curtains meant to represent the ones in Madeleine's room?(https://unalettricedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/4c9dfc54f2f90f2319feeb46ec9389e7.jpg?w=201)To get back to the topic ... which refers to the fact that Kate McCann was alerted to the fact that there was something amiss ... when she saw the curtains in Madeleine's bed room being blown by a gust of air.
I fail to see what the problem is and why we require an in depth discussion. The internet is full of illustrations of curtains blowing in the breeze at open windows ... so no great mystery there.
They didn't make just the one mistake though.They made one mistake
It is the 'poor parents' whose actions instigated this case .Yes the poor parentz
No one else davel, and no one else has been found to have been there, other than the known people.
Indeed G-Unit.
They claim to know what happened, but don't know what happened.
Very inciteful.
Its quite simple
They know she was abducted but not exactly how it happened
They made one mistakeAnd they let other people check the kids - another mistake IMO.
They thought their children were safe in the apartment
That's one mistake
Merely saying abduction is not evidence or proof.
It is merely a belief.
And they let other people check the kids - another mistake IMO.
Its what SY believe based on the evidence
And its what SY believe that's important
Not anonymous bloggers on the net
Have they solved the crime ?
No, they haven't.
No mistake at so still only one mistake
They know what happened but not who did it
So they have made progress
The McCann's claimed THEY regularly checked their children.
We only have 1 check recorded for each of them.
Rowley stated as fact Maddie was abducted
You do not know that.
Have you forgotten, they have several hypotheses.
Are you calling them liars
That would be libellous
Rowley stated as fact Maddie was abducted
That's pretty clear
Davel, that is a matter of recorded fact.They said they checked on them regularly
They said they checked on them regularly
Are you calling them liars
All that is very clear, is that Rowley doesn't know what happened.
By the way davel, can you tell me how Rowley is involved in this investigation ?
I didn't know he was one of the 4 officers still working on the case.
And they let other people check the kids - another mistake IMO.Or to be more accurate, they let one person not check on Madeleine.
There are 2 recorded checks.They said regularly
So Dave, when else did the McCann's check their children ?
Cite.
Rowley says Maddie was abducted
Are you saying he doesn't know ow what he is talking about
He is speaking for the official police investigation
They said regularly
Therefore they were checked regularly unless they are lying
They said regularlyThen read p60 of 'madeleine' where Kate describes the lack of a 30min check at the end of Wednesday evening.
Therefore they were checked regularly unless they are lying
Then read p60 of 'madeleine' where Kate describes the lack of a 30min check at the end of Wednesday evening.According to you but you have not been accurate in the past
This is really very easy to understand.
Saying something doesn't make it true.
He has already admitted the team are looking at several different hypotheses.
This means they have not determined what happened.
Cite these other checks.The McCann's said they checked regularlyeithet they did or they are lying
He said Maddie was abducted
That is a fact
The McCann's said they checked regularlyeithet they did or they are lying
You are suggesting they did not which is libellous
In order to defend your libel you would have to prove they didnt
I'm off now
The McCann's said they checked regularlyeithet they did or they are lyingSee p60 of Kate's book. 8((()*/
You are suggesting they did not which is libellous
In order to defend your libel you would have to prove they didnt
I'm off now
According to you but you have not been accurate in the pastComing from someone who invented a car to 'win' a debate, that is rich. 8@??)(
Coming from someone who invented a car to 'win' a debate, that is rich. 8@??)(
It does not make abduction a fact.
Try to understand that.
What I said is not libel.They said they checked regularly
There are two recorded instances of them checking.
They said they checked regularly
If you imply they didn't that is libel
I never invented a carYou were the one who said you invented it.
You just think I did
You were the one who said you invented it.He drives a BMW
Are you now claiming that your son's 2007, LHD, Portuguese-plated Renault Scenic exists?
Cite the other checks.
I am reporting facts.
Two recorded checks.
That's all.
Two reported checks
Must be others unless the McCanns are lying
Then CITE the checks.I don't need to
I don't need to
They exist unless the mcanns are lying
The McCann's said they checked regularly
Where ?
The McCann's said they checked regularly
Are you really suggesting they only checked twice all week
That's absurd
Then CITE these checks.Why are you asking me to cite them when they have not been reported
It seems to me that a person entering a room where the main curtains had been closed all week would notice if they were open. If, at the same time, the closed shutters had been opened the difference in light levels would be apparent. There would be no need for nets to blow in the wind to attract attention."What does seem clear is that the main curtains would be too long and heavy to blow up in the wind." I agree with that.
What does seem clear is that the main curtains would be too long and heavy to blow up in the wind.
"What does seem clear is that the main curtains would be too long and heavy to blow up in the wind." I agree with that.
"It seems to me that a person entering a room where the main curtains had been closed all week would notice if they were open. If, at the same time, the closed shutters had been opened the difference in light levels would be apparent. There would be no need for nets to blow in the wind to attract attention." I'm thinking this may have been Kate's first check that week hence lack of previous experience..
If she slept in that room on Wednesday night she had made her way to the bed under the window so had experience of the level of light in there.Well true but she wasn't in checking mode but going from one room to the other. Perception changes depending on the task at hand.