UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Erngath on August 14, 2017, 07:15:41 PM
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Some believe that the investigation is limited to protect the McCanns.
They are "off limits" and the investigation has been "designed to find diddly squat.
Do you believe this to be true and if so, why?
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Some believe that the investigation is limited to protect the McCanns.
They are "off limits" and the investigation has been "designed to find diddly squat.
Do you believe this to be true and if so, why?
You have packed too many points into a single post to make it easy to answer.
The May 2017 10th anniversary specials scored as follows. IMO of course.
CMTV's effort quickly fell by the wayside. It was simple an on-site rehash of various Amaral theories.
BBC Panorama was the favourite, but it lost out a bit by being too confrontational. There was a lot more to be gathered from a somewhat softer approach.
Sky won the race by just a nose. It pointed out that the SY remit was flawed. And AC Rowley seemed extremely uncomfortable about the McCanns involvement.
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Some believe that the investigation is limited to protect the McCanns.
They are "off limits" and the investigation has been "designed to find diddly squat.
Do you believe this to be true and if so, why?
Without making any comment about what happened on that night. I think a lot of what has happened since is more about saving face for those who have supported them, in that they don't want any suggestion that that support was a mistake.
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You have packed too many points into a single post to make it easy to answer.
The May 2017 10th anniversary specials scored as follows. IMO of course.
CMTV's effort quickly fell by the wayside. It was simple an on-site rehash of various Amaral theories.
BBC Panorama was the favourite, but it lost out a bit by being too confrontational. There was a lot more to be gathered from a somewhat softer approach.
Sky won the race by just a nose. It pointed out that the SY remit was flawed. And AC Rowley seemed extremely uncomfortable about the McCanns involvement.
Nothing to do with any television programme .
Which do you believe?
Either they are being protected or not.
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Without making any comment about what happened on that night. I think a lot of what has happened since is more about saving face for those who have supported them, in that they don't want any suggestion that that support was a mistake.
Saving face for whom?
The government?
Sheesh compared to the mistakes governments of either hue have made can't believe they would bother too much about admitting this one.
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Saving face for whom?
The government?
Sheesh compared to the mistakes governments of either hue have made can't believe they would bother too much about admitting this one.
Politicians are masters of reputation management and it is second nature to them.
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Politicians are masters of reputation management and it is second nature to them.
But why?
Seriously in this case why?
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Politicians are masters of reputation management and it is second nature to them.
They aren't terribly good at it then, are they?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom
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If we knew all the answers, it wouldn't be a mystery.
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But why?
Seriously in this case why?
High profile support of the McCanns from the get go? When you have a tiger by the tail...
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High profile support of the McCanns from the get go? When you have a tiger by the tail...
So no explanation ?
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High profile support of the McCanns from the get go? When you have a tiger by the tail...
It would not be just egg on their face.
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It would not be just egg on their face.
What would it be?
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So no explanation ?
No known explanation.
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No known explanation.
But there must be one?
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But there must be one?
Anything would be mere speculation.
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The answer to your original question is no, the government is not protecting the McCanns. Whether individuals in positions of authority take default positions based on incomplete information is another question unanswerable by those not involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)
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The answer to your original question is no, the government is not protecting the McCanns. Whether individuals in positions of authority take default positions based on incomplete information is another question unanswerable by those not involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)
Agreed.
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The answer to your original question is no, the government is not protecting the McCanns. Whether individuals in positions of authority take default positions based on incomplete information is another question unanswerable by those not involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)
By that do you mean that these individuals in position of authority are being deprived of information or are content to base their opinion on information which is out of date?
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Imo the all the evidence against the mCcanns has been looked at and it is blindingly obvious they are not involved. Anyone suggesting there are other reasons why the mccanns are not suspects would need to explain why the portuguese have not re investigated the mccanns. So far no one hs been able to do this
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The answer to your original question is no, the government is not protecting the McCanns. Whether individuals in positions of authority take default positions based on incomplete information is another question unanswerable by those not involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor)
You are suggesting that those making decisions have incomplete knowledge when the truth is that they are most likely to have more knowledge of the facts than the armchair detectives on the internet who are criticising them
Your argument doesn't even reach the first hurdle....imo of course
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Imo the all the evidence against the mCcanns has been looked at and it is blindingly obvious they are not involved. Anyone suggesting there are other reasons why the mccanns are not suspects would need to explain why the portuguese have not re investigated the mccanns. So far no one hs been able to do this
What happened is undetermined.
Only the 'blind' can't see or admit that.
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What happened is undetermined.
Only the 'blind' can't see or admit that.
Can you give any reason as to why the government might be protecting the McCanns, or do you not believe they are being protected?
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Can you give any reason as to why the government might be protecting the McCanns, or do you not believe they are being protected?
Haven't you been reading through the posts on this topic ?
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What happened is undetermined.
Only the 'blind' can't see or admit that.
Then tell me why neither SY nor the vPJ are investigating the McCanns
Only the blind cannot see that they have been ruled out
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Haven't you been reading through the posts on this topic ?
Do try a different tactic Stephen.
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Then tell me why neither SY nor the vPJ are investigating the McCanns
Only the blind cannot see that they have been ruled out
I am not blind metaphorically or otherwise.
REMEMBER, no other person than the ones known have been found in the apartment that night.
Then tell me this, and try answering it for once, what would happen to the the McCann's if it was shown there was no abduction ?
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I am not blind metaphorically or otherwise.
REMEMBER, no other person than the ones known have been found in the apartment that night.
Then tell me this, and try answering it for once, what would happen to the the McCann's if it was shown there was no abduction ?
Once again, you do not answer a question but deflect by asking one of your own.
Why are the McCanns not being investigated by the British and Portuguese police?
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Once again, you do not answer a question but deflect by asking one of your own.
Why are the McCanns not being investigated by the British and Portuguese police?
They were evidently told not to.
You know that as well as I do.
So Erngath, what evidence is there of an unknown person in the apartment that night ?
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They were evidently told not to.
You know that as well as I do.
So Erngath, what evidence is there of an unknown person in the apartment that night ?
I don't know what evidence there is.
The initial collection of evidence was deeply flawed.
Evidence could have been destroyed, missed opportunities of evidence being taken, the examination of the finger prints on the window was amateurish etc etc.
Now I didn't know that they were told not to investigate the McCanns.
Do you mean the Portuguese have also been told the McCanns are off limits?
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I don't know what evidence there is.
The initial collection of evidence was deeply flawed.
Evidence could have been destroyed, missed opportunities of evidence being taken, the examination of the finger prints on the window was amateurish etc etc.
Now I didn't know that they were told not to investigate the McCanns.
Do you mean the Portuguese have also been told the McCanns are off limits?
All of that is in your biased opinion.
...and stock McCann supporter propaganda.
As to contamination of the crime scene, the McCann and their friends did that, searching an apartment for an abducted child.
Mmm.
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I am not blind metaphorically or otherwise.
REMEMBER, no other person than the ones known have been found in the apartment that night.
Then tell me this, and try answering it for once, what would happen to the the McCann's if it was shown there was no abduction ?
It would depend on what evidence an abduction was ruled out.....so tell me how that could happen and we will have the answer to your question
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All of that is in your biased opinion.
...and stock McCann supporter propaganda.
As to contamination of the crime scene, the McCann and their friends did that, searching an apartment for an abducted child.
Mmm.
What evidence would you expect to find that would confirm the presence off an abductor
You will not be able to answer this question
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All of that is in your biased opinion.
...and stock McCann supporter propaganda.
As to contamination of the crime scene, the McCann and their friends did that, searching an apartment for an abducted child.
Mmm.
And all of your posts reflect your biased opinion and are full of stock McCann sceptic propaganda.
The McCanns were not responsible for the failure to carry out forensics on Madeleine's bed, or the shoddy retrieval of finger prints.
Mmmmm
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What evidence would you expect to find that would confirm the presence off an abductor
You will not be able to answer this question
Physical evidence of a thirds party in the apartment, that night.
There isn't.
Questioning of those who have abducted children/burglars/kidnappers etc.
Guess what, nothing has been found, and those last 4 arguidos have been cleared.
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And all of your posts reflect your biased opinion and are full of stock McCann sceptic propaganda.
The McCanns were not responsible for the failure to carry out forensics on Madeleine's bed, or the shoddy retrieval of finger prints.
Mmmmm
Is that in your experience of police work ?
Were you there Erngath, or have you just read the MSM ? ?{)(**
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Is that in your experience of police work ?
Were you there Erngath, or have you just read the MSM ? ?{)(**
I have no experience in police work.
I was not there.
Were you?
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Physical evidence of a thirds party in the apartment, that night.
There isn't.
Questioning of those who have abducted children/burglars/kidnappers etc.
Guess what, nothing has been found, and those last 4 arguidos have been cleared.
So what physical evidence would you expect to find
Fingerprints ....hair
That's what was found
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I have no experience in police work.
I was not there.
Were you?
Is that the most original response you can come up with.
As it happens , I do know police officers, and they have been a useful source of information as to investigative procedures.
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So what physical evidence would you expect to find
Fingerprints ....hair
That's what was found
Or dave, yet again, it doesn't mean they were left there that night.
You and others really do clutch as straws.
...and there is no trail from the criminal underworld.
You do know of course, that anyone questioned as an arguido can do what Kate Mccann did.
By the way, can you tell me of any other arguido in this case who has refused to answer questions ?
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Physical evidence of a thirds party in the apartment, that night.
There isn't.
Questioning of those who have abducted children/burglars/kidnappers etc.
Guess what, nothing has been found, and those last 4 arguidos have been cleared.
How come the last four arguidos have been cleared if The McCanns haven't?
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How come the last four arguidos have been cleared if The McCanns haven't?
I should have added the following.
Subject to the 20 year period.
If new evidence emerges, the status of arguido can be re-enacted.
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Or dave, yet again, it doesn't mean they were left there that night.
You and others really do clutch as straws.
...and there is no trail from the criminal underworld.
You do know of course, that anyone questioned as an arguido can do what Kate Mccann did.
By the way, can you tell me of any other arguido in this case who has refused to answer questions ?
Of course it doesn't mean they were left there that night
So what physical evidence would you accept as evidence of an intruder
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Physical evidence of a thirds party in the apartment, that night.
There isn't.
Questioning of those who have abducted children/burglars/kidnappers etc.
Guess what, nothing has been found, and those last 4 arguidos have been cleared.
It is known that abduction involving the removal of a child from her bedroom through a window ... while her whole family are at home ... without the abductor entering to leave forensic trace evidence ... is not only possible in theory, it has happened.
In the case which I have already posted some time ago, I think the screen on the window had been removed.
Does that imply a 'staged' abduction?
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It is known that abduction involving the removal of a child from her bedroom through a window ... while her whole family are at home ... without the abductor entering to leave forensic trace evidence ... is not only possible in theory, it has happened.
In the case which I have already posted some time ago, I think the screen on the window had been removed.
Does that imply a 'staged' abduction?
Which screen on which window?
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It is known that abduction involving the removal of a child from her bedroom through a window ... while her whole family are at home ... without the abductor entering to leave forensic trace evidence ... is not only possible in theory, it has happened.
In the case which I have already posted some time ago, I think the screen on the window had been removed.
Does that imply a 'staged' abduction?
it doesn't mean there was an abduction here.
So yet again Brietta, if there was no abduction, where does that leave the McCann's ?
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Is that the most original response you can come up with.
As it happens , I do know police officers, and they have been a useful source of information as to investigative procedures.
Yes we all know you know police officers.
Well I have nephew in law who is a senior detective in Police Scotland who does find your musing most hilarious.
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Yes we all know you know police officers.
Well I have nephew in law who is a senior detective in Police Scotland who does find your musing most hilarious.
Well, I knew that as well.
You've said that before. 8((()*/
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Well, I knew that as well.
You've said that before. 8((()*/
Indeed I have.
Probably after each time you tell your little story about your helpful police friends. 8**8:/:
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Which screen on which window?
Man, 37, charged with 'kidnapping' girl, 3, through her bedroom window... but child was miraculously saved when her father and uncle chased down her abductor
Ethan Odom, 37, 'reached through window and told girl to come to him'
He then fled with her down street in Santa Clarita, California, police said
However, the girl's father and uncle heard a commotion and gave chase
They 'caught up with suspect, tackled him to ground and got child back'
Odom charged with kidnapping and other crimes; has denied all counts
Bail has been set at $285,000 and he could face up to 13 years in prison
By Sophie Jane Evans For Dailymail.com
PUBLISHED: 14:38, 13 January 2015 | UPDATED: 15:10, 13 January 2015
Snip
In the second alleged attack, at around 7pm last Thursday, Odom - who was 'wearing a hoodie', family members said - allegedly pulled a screen off the girl's bedroom window and leaned in.
'He leaned in the window and then told her to come toward him,' the youngster's aunt, Adriana, told KTLA 5, adding that her entire family had been in the house during the 'frightening' attack.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908283/Man-37-charged-kidnapping-girl-3-bedroom-window-child-miraculously-saved-father-uncle-chased-abductor.html#ixzz4pokY025V
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Indeed I have.
Probably after each time you tell your little story about your helpful police friends. 8**8:/:
That really annoys you, doesn't it.
Tough.
That many police officers don't believe the McCann's version of events, and also police officers and ex members of the force, contributed to Amaral's fund.
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Man, 37, charged with 'kidnapping' girl, 3, through her bedroom window... but child was miraculously saved when her father and uncle chased down her abductor
Ethan Odom, 37, 'reached through window and told girl to come to him'
He then fled with her down street in Santa Clarita, California, police said
However, the girl's father and uncle heard a commotion and gave chase
They 'caught up with suspect, tackled him to ground and got child back'
Odom charged with kidnapping and other crimes; has denied all counts
Bail has been set at $285,000 and he could face up to 13 years in prison
By Sophie Jane Evans For Dailymail.com
PUBLISHED: 14:38, 13 January 2015 | UPDATED: 15:10, 13 January 2015
Snip
In the second alleged attack, at around 7pm last Thursday, Odom - who was 'wearing a hoodie', family members said - allegedly pulled a screen off the girl's bedroom window and leaned in.
'He leaned in the window and then told her to come toward him,' the youngster's aunt, Adriana, told KTLA 5, adding that her entire family had been in the house during the 'frightening' attack.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908283/Man-37-charged-kidnapping-girl-3-bedroom-window-child-miraculously-saved-father-uncle-chased-abductor.html#ixzz4pokY025V
Thank you.
I thought you were talking directly re the Madeleine case rather than a similar case.
Merci bien.
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Just a reminder( to myself especially) the topic of the thread is ...
Is the British government protecting the McCanns and if so for what reason.
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That really annoys you, doesn't it.
Tough.
That many police officers don't believe the McCann's version of events, and also police officers and ex members of the force, contributed to Amaral's fund.
All of your post is your opinion only.
Please provide cites for the fact that"many police officers don't believe the McCanns version of events"
Why are you allowed to post your opinion as fact?
And show me absolute proof that " ex members of the police force contributed to Amarals fund.
Your post shoul be removed.
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That really annoys you, doesn't it.
Tough.
That many police officers don't believe the McCann's version of events, and also police officers and ex members of the force, contributed to Amaral's fund.
It's a fact that some police officers are of limited intelligence
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Just a reminder( to myself especially) the topic of the thread is ...
Is the British government protecting the McCanns and if so for what reason.
The British government's response to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was unprecedented.
Why did the British Ambassador travel from Lisbon on 4th May? No such response occurred in the Ben Needham case;
The British Embassy was informed and was asked to help. However no support was offered due to us not being under arrest for any crime and the Embassy's feeling that the local police had better knowledge and so it should be best to leave it to them.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/help-find-ben-needham/timeline-of-events-since-ben-needhams-disappearance/140138162720690/
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It's a fact that some police officers are of limited intelligence
A cite for this 'fact' should be easy.
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All of your post is your opinion only.
Please provide cites for the fact that"many police officers don't believe the McCanns version of events"
Why are you allowed to post your opinion as fact?
And show me absolute proof that " ex members of the police force contributed to Amarals fund.
Your post shoul be removed.
What a surprise that you typed that.
Perhaps then, we should have all reference to abduction removed as well, as there is no proof of that. 8)--))
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Just a reminder( to myself especially) the topic of the thread is ...
Is the British government protecting the McCanns and if so for what reason.
As far as I am concerned it's the usual stance of many sceptics when they desperately want something to be true, but can't come up with any credible evidence to support their wishful thinking.
i.e
When all else fails - claim a conspiracy.
IMO
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What a surprise that you typed that.
Perhaps then, we should have all reference to abduction removed as well, as there is no proof of that. 8)--))
We supporters have to provide cites .
You seem to be excused this rule.
As a mod you should be setting the correct example.
Your post is stating your opinion only unless you can provide a cite.
Your post is clearly breaking the rules.
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We supporters have to provide cites .
You seem to be excused this rule.
As a mod you should be setting the correct example.
Your post is stating your opinion only unless you can provide a cite.
Your post is clearly breaking the rules.
Since you have chosen of your own free will to post this, I am going forward on the basis that if I refer to you as a 'supporter' in future, you will not take offence at such a description.
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Since you have chosen of your own free will to post this, I am going forward on the basis that if I refer to you as a 'supporter' in future, you will not take offence at such a description.
None taken.
ETA
It's a description which fits me well.
I support a few charities.
I have supported my family over the years
Always support Andy Murray.
I support Scotland in any sport.
I support a well known Scottish football team.
So I like being a supporter.
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We supporters have to provide cites .
You seem to be excused this rule.
As a mod you should be setting the correct example.
Your post is stating your opinion only unless you can provide a cite.
Your post is clearly breaking the rules.
Provide a cite to prove abduction.
If you type abduction as fact, then provide the cite to prove it.
I find the obsession some Mccann supporters seem to have in attacking my posts ......amusing.
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Provide a cite to prove abduction.
If you type abduction as fact, then provide the cite to prove it.
I find the obsession some Mccann supporters seem to have in attacking my posts ......amusing.
Glad we amuse you.
Makes posting worthwhile.
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Glad we amuse you.
Makes posting worthwhile.
So do you have a cite to prove abduction ??? 8(0(*
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What a surprise that you typed that.
Perhaps then, we should have all reference to abduction removed as well, as there is no proof of that. 8)--))
All references to an abduction have been removed
It is now known on this forum as the alleged abduction or the abduction SY are investigating
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Since you have chosen of your own free will to post this, I am going forward on the basis that if I refer to you as a 'supporter' in future, you will not take offence at such a description.
Why should anyone take offence at being referred to as a supporter
Quite a bizarre suggestion
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All references to an abduction have been removed
It is now known on this forum as the alleged abduction or the abduction SY are investigating
Not really.
It is clear cut some are typing it as fact, and won't acknowledge that the other scenarios are p.o..
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Why should anyone take offence at being referred to as a supporter
Quite a bizarre suggestion
Puzzled me too.
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In the extreme unlikelihood that there is a UK government conspiracy, why does it have to be one which is protecting the McCanns? Can anyone explain why, in authorising Operation Grange , the UK Government has in essence not just allowed but encouraged further investigation into said conspiracy? Are the McCanns actually battling against 2 countries' authorities?
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In the extreme unlikelihood that there is a UK government conspiracy, why does it have to be one which is protecting the McCanns? Can anyone explain why, in authorising Operation Grange , the UK Government has in essence not just allowed but encouraged further investigation into said conspiracy? Are the McCanns actually battling against 2 countries' authorities?
If there was conspiracy to protect the mccanns why spend 11 million on an investigation
Why not simply close the case
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All references to an abduction have been removed
It is now known on this forum as the alleged abduction or the abduction SY are investigating
And rightly so since Maddie's fate has never been established.
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I expected nothing from OG.
i predicted it would find nothing, and I also predicted the McCann's would not be investigated.
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I expected nothing from OG.
i predicted it would find nothing, and I also predicted the McCann's would not be investigated.
No you are wrong I predict they will solve it.
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No you are wrong I predict they will solve it.
Of course you do.
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No you are wrong I predict they will solve it.
I hope so.