UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Brietta on January 31, 2018, 07:26:40 PM
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Some members insisted on 'wrapping everything in IMO' ... there was a bit of discussion about it ... and it is now a forum protocol. Clumsy, but it does have the benefit of differentiating fact from opinion.
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Some members insisted on 'wrapping everything in IMO' ... there was a bit of discussion about it ... and it is now a forum protocol. Clumsy, but it does have the benefit of differentiating fact from opinion.
It is factually incorrect that everything has to be wrapped in IMO.
Opinions have to be wrapped in IMO.
Facts do not.
I see a factual accuracy has been airbrushed from this thread. And that is a fact and not IMO.
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It is factually incorrect that everything has to be wrapped in IMO.
Opinions have to be wrapped in IMO.
Facts do not.
I see a factual accuracy has been airbrushed from this thread. And that is a fact and not IMO.
Did you miss the bit in my post which said: "differentiating fact from opinion" ?
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Did you miss the bit in my post which said: "differentiating fact from opinion" ?
Wrapping everything in IMO does absolutely nothing to differentiate fact from opinion.
And it is still not a forum protocol to wrap everything in IMO.
And that is not IMO. That is a fact.
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Wrapping everything in IMO does absolutely nothing to differentiate fact from opinion.
And it is still not a forum protocol to wrap everything in IMO.
And that is not IMO. That is a fact.
Do have it your own way ... quite frankly in my opinion just an inconsequential argument. I think everyone else on the forum has grasped the concept whether or not they adhere to it is another matter entirely.
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Do have it your own way ... quite frankly in my opinion just an inconsequential argument. I think everyone else on the forum has grasped the concept whether or not they adhere to it is another matter entirely.
Quite frankly, I have no interest in discussing your opinion.
Should you get onto facts, things might be different.
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Quite frankly, I have no interest in discussing your opinion.
Should you get onto facts, things might be different.
Perhaps you should give some thought as to why your posts always seems to boil down to you and your opinion while never failing to add just a smidgen of deprecation for good measure.
It wouldn't be so bad if you worked it into the concept of the topic of whichever thread you happened to be on at time of delivery but you seldom do.
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Wrapping everything in IMO does absolutely nothing to differentiate fact from opinion.
And it is still not a forum protocol to wrap everything in IMO.
And that is not IMO. That is a fact.
whether something is a fact or not is sometimes at the discretion of the moderator....it has become necessarry to add imo to avoid factual posts from being removed...that is also a fact
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whether something is a fact or not is sometimes at the discretion of the moderator....it has become necessarry to add imo to avoid factual posts from being removed...that is also a fact
I think posters don't always realise that what they are posting is an opinion. They are also reluctant to accept that fact in my opinion. I think that's why the interpreters and translators are accused of making mistakes. Posters don't want to accept that the facts don't support their opinions so they try to change/discredit the recorded facts.
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I think posters don't always realise that what they are posting is an opinion. They are also reluctant to accept that fact in my opinion. I think that's why the interpreters and translators are accused of making mistakes. Posters don't want to accept that the facts don't support their opinions so they try to change/discredit the recorded facts.
Maybe worth a thread of its own?
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I think posters don't always realise that what they are posting is an opinion. They are also reluctant to accept that fact in my opinion. I think that's why the interpreters and translators are accused of making mistakes. Posters don't want to accept that the facts don't support their opinions so they try to change/discredit the recorded facts.
You prove my point inas much that one persons fact may be an opinion....you want to accept that the twice translated non verbatim statements are accurate and think that is a fact....I would say it isnt and that my opinion is supported by evidence....
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Maybe worth a thread of its own?
Done
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I seem to recall that the IMOs came about due to the posting of “facts” by supporters.
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I seem to recall that the IMOs came about due to the posting of “facts” by supporters.
Whereas all the "facts" posted by sceptics are indeed "facts" ?>)()<
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You prove my point inas much that one persons fact may be an opinion....you want to accept that the twice translated non verbatim statements are accurate and think that is a fact....I would say it isnt and that my opinion is supported by evidence....
My opinion is that the statements themselves are facts. I know they are because I can see and read them.
Others, including you, assert that their contents aren't factual, but I have seen no evidence which confirms that.
People's opinions concerning misinterpretations and faulty translations are not, in my opinion, supported by any evidence.
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My opinion is that the statements themselves are facts. I know they are because I can see and read them.
Others, including you, assert that their contents aren't factual, but I have seen no evidence which confirms that.
People's opinions concerning misinterpretations and faulty translations are not, in my opinion, supported by any evidence.
The statements are factual...whether they are accurate is opinion...there is evidence to support their innaccuracy...imo
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The statements are factual...whether they are accurate is opinion...there is evidence to support their innaccuracy...imo
So far you have produced some minor inconsequential errors in support of your case, that cannot be seen as proof of widespread errors.
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I seem to recall that the IMOs came about due to the posting of “facts” by supporters.
In Your Opinion.
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It is often a fine line between opinion and fact but we here stride to show the difference.
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I seem to recall that the IMOs came about due to the posting of “facts” by supporters.
If I recall it was the constant reference to abduction as if it were a foregone conclusion.
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So far you have produced some minor inconsequential errors in support of your case, that cannot be seen as proof of widespread errors.
All your opinion.... And I have never used the word proof
I have produced several pieces of evidence to support my opinion
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If I recall it was the constant reference to abduction as if it were a foregone conclusion.
Yes, that was it.
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The statements are factual...whether they are accurate is opinion...there is evidence to support their innaccuracy...imo
I have not seen any evidence of ignificant inaccuracies.
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You prove my point inas much that one persons fact may be an opinion....you want to accept that the twice translated non verbatim statements are accurate and think that is a fact....I would say it isnt and that my opinion is supported by evidence....
Interpreting from one language to another is not an exact science as many words do not translate directly. When Anne recorded and translated the libel trial reports I checked them all for accuracy and good English. There were occasions when words had to be replaced but in general the understanding of the content wasn't disturbed. As far as the McCann case files are concerned the interpreters did a good job to the extent that few errors have been found.
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Interpreting from one language to another is not an exact science as many words do not translate directly. When Anne recorded and translated the libel trial reports I checked them all for accuracy and good English. There were occasions when words had to be replaced but in general the understanding of the content wasn't disturbed. As far as the McCann case files are concerned the interpreters did a good job to the extent that few errors have been found.
IM not criticising the translators but we have no transcript to check how accurate they are...they are not verbatim but paraphrased.....Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes.....Sutton has said more...no one should be asked to sign a statement that they cannot understand...it is not possible to claim that the statements are totally accurate......they may or may not be...imo it is unlikely they are
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IM not criticising the translators but we have no transcript to check how accurate they are...they are not verbatim but paraphrased.....Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes.....Sutton has said more...no one should be asked to sign a statement that they cannot understand...it is not possible to claim that the statements are totally accurate......they may or may not be...imo it is unlikely they are
Do you have a cite for your claim that Rebelo admitted that there could be mistakes in the translations?
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Do you have a cite for your claim that Rebelo admitted that there could be mistakes in the translations?
It's from an article in the daily mail which I've posted several times
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Do you have a cite for your claim that Rebelo admitted that there could be mistakes in the translations?
In my opinion just one of the many things the investigation under Rebelo had to put into operation to bring some order to the chaos inherited from his predecessor.
Madeleine McCann: Possible translation errors
By Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz2:16PM GMT 12 Nov 2007
Inconsistencies in the statements given by the McCanns and the group of friends who were dining with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearance may have been caused by errors in translation, it emerged today.
Portuguese detectives investigating the case of the missing four-year-old have admitted that they are reassessing the original witness statements to look for inaccuracies in their translation.
"In the early days of the investigation there were dozens of statements being given at what was a very confusing time," a police source said.
"Obviously the police acted in good faith in their selection of translators but given all that has been said about the various contradictions in the versions of events, detectives are now re-examining the possibility that there may have been some problems," he said.
The admission came as police undertake a thorough review of the case under the new head of the inquiry, Portugal's second most senior policeman Paulo Rebelo, 45.
He was brought in to take over from Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral, 47, who was sacked at the beginning of October, following a swathe of criticism that the police investigation had been flawed from the start.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
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In my opinion just one of the many things the investigation under Rebelo had to put into operation to bring some order to the chaos inherited from his predecessor.
Madeleine McCann: Possible translation errors
By Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz2:16PM GMT 12 Nov 2007
Inconsistencies in the statements given by the McCanns and the group of friends who were dining with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearance may have been caused by errors in translation, it emerged today.
Portuguese detectives investigating the case of the missing four-year-old have admitted that they are reassessing the original witness statements to look for inaccuracies in their translation.
"In the early days of the investigation there were dozens of statements being given at what was a very confusing time," a police source said.
"Obviously the police acted in good faith in their selection of translators but given all that has been said about the various contradictions in the versions of events, detectives are now re-examining the possibility that there may have been some problems," he said.
The admission came as police undertake a thorough review of the case under the new head of the inquiry, Portugal's second most senior policeman Paulo Rebelo, 45.
He was brought in to take over from Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral, 47, who was sacked at the beginning of October, following a swathe of criticism that the police investigation had been flawed from the start.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
So where does Rebelo make the statement claimed ?
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IM not criticising the translators but we have no transcript to check how accurate they are...they are not verbatim but paraphrased.....Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes.....Sutton has said more...no one should be asked to sign a statement that they cannot understand...it is not possible to claim that the statements are totally accurate......they may or may not be...imo it is unlikely they are
In my opinion the bold text is an example of someone thinking they're posting a fact when they're not.
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In my opinion the bold text is an example of someone thinking they're posting a fact when they're not.
I've posted the cite several times
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So where does Rebelo make the statement claimed ?
Actions speak louder than words ... and the men under his command carried out the appropriate action.
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I've posted the cite several times
It's needed again, showing the alleged quote from Rebelo.
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Actions speak louder than words ... and the men under his command carried out the appropriate action.
A cite speaks louder than assumptions Brietta. Can Davel provide one ?
As to the actions of Rebelo it was he who desperately tried to arrange a reconstruction and the rogatory interviews. Those actions certainly don't speak of confidence in the truthfulness of the tapas group's narrative, do they ?
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Perhaps you should give some thought as to why your posts always seems to boil down to you and your opinion while never failing to add just a smidgen of deprecation for good measure.
It wouldn't be so bad if you worked it into the concept of the topic of whichever thread you happened to be on at time of delivery but you seldom do.
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”....G. Orwell.... 8(>((
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A cite speaks louder than assumptions Brietta. Can Davel provide one ?
As to the actions of Rebelo it was he who desperately tried to arrange a reconstruction and the rogatory interviews. Those actions certainly don't speak of confidence in the truthfulness of the tapas group's narrative, do they ?
I would like you to produce a cite to back up your assertion which I believe to be unfounded. Please do so.
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In my opinion the bold text is an example of someone thinking they're posting a fact when they're not.
IMO that is a fact not an opinion. If it was said "I understand Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" then it is your opinion. IMO.
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IMO that is a fact not an opinion. If it was said "I understand Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" then it is your opinion. IMO.
Just to clarify, Davel claimed that Rebelo said there may have been mistakes but has been unable to provide a cite therefore it is opinion. With a cite of him quoted as saying that it would be possible to state it as a fact.
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I would like you to produce a cite to back up your assertion which I believe to be unfounded. Please do so.
Sorry you've lost me Brietta.
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Just to clarify, Davel claimed that Rebelo said there may have been mistakes but has been unable to provide a cite therefore it is opinion. With a cite of him quoted as saying that it would be possible to state it as a fact.
OK I'd go further if that was the case. If a person purports to tell facts that aren't able to be backed up, what is it then? It would be a cop out if just assumed it was opinion. I'd tend to be harsher on that.
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IMO that is a fact not an opinion. If it was said "I understand Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" then it is your opinion. IMO.
Once again I don't understand the point you're trying to make. When discussing the accuracy or otherwise of the statements in the PJ files a poster wrote that "Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes".
Is that a fact or an opinion? The answer is simple. A cite quoting Rebelo is needed to confirm it is a fact. If no cite can be produced it's an opinion being posted as if it were a fact.
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Once again I don't understand the point you're trying to make. When discussing the accuracy or otherwise of the statements in the PJ files a poster wrote that "Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes".
Is that a fact or an opinion? The answer is simple. A cite quoting Rebelo is needed to confirm it is a fact. If no cite can be produced it's an opinion being posted as if it were a fact.
No it could be a simple mistake, he may have accidentally made an error or deliberately made an error. If it is worded as a fact a cite needs to be producible if asked. I feel opinion needs to be made clear that it is opinion e.g . saying something referring to yourself e.g. I think, or IMO.
An example of a mistake is missing out the word "not", a mistake I make too often e.g. ""Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" becomes "Rebelo admitted there could not be mistakes". (Not such a good example as both appear as reported facts, as "admitted" implies there is a statement to that effect.)
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No it could be a simple mistake, he may have accidentally made an error or deliberately made an error. If it is worded as a fact a cite needs to be producible if asked. I feel opinion needs to be made clear that it is opinion e.g . saying something referring to yourself e.g. I think, or IMO.
An example of a mistake is missing out the word "not", a mistake I make too often e.g. ""Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" becomes "Rebelo admitted there could not be mistakes". (Not such a good example as both appear as reported facts, as "admitted" implies there is a statement to that effect.)
Your opinion about someone else's motives isn't really needed. It's up to the poster to explain whether he was posting a fact (cite needed), an opinion (imo needed) or a mistake (acknowledgement needed).
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Your opinion about someone else's motives isn't really needed. It's up to the poster to explain whether he was posting a fact (cite needed), an opinion (imo needed) or a mistake (acknowledgement needed).
Exactly, but the need for a cite would only be in cases where the fact is not generally known. It would get onerous if every fact had to be cited every time IMO.
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Exactly, but the need for a cite would only be in cases where the fact is not generally known. It would get onerous if every fact had to be cited every time IMO.
That doesn't apply in this case.
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That doesn't apply in this case.
Are you looking at just a specific case? I was looking at it more from a moderators POV, assessing whether is it fact or opinion or is it just plain factually incorrect .
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
this is the best I can find at the moment but I seem to remember there was an article in the mail that was more precise...will keep looking
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My opinion is that the statements themselves are facts. I know they are because I can see and read them.
Others, including you, assert that their contents aren't factual, but I have seen no evidence which confirms that.
People's opinions concerning misinterpretations and faulty translations are not, in my opinion, supported by any evidence.
Statements - I was thinking all you can say about a statement is that "Witness x states" Whatever a person states could be a truth or a lie. So it is not a fact as such IMO.
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So where does Rebelo make the statement claimed ?
The claim "that Rebelo admitted that there could be mistakes in the translations?" Is factually incorrect based on that article. It is not an opinion but a "factually incorrect" statement.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
this is the best I can find at the moment but I seem to remember there was an article in the mail that was more precise...will keep looking
I appreciate your effort Davel, thank you. I don't think you'll find anything which quotes Rebelo, but good luck.
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Statements - I was thinking all you can say about a statement is that "Witness x states" Whatever a person states could be a truth or a lie. So it is not a fact as such IMO.
It's a fact that statements exist. What is said in them may or may not be factual.
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It's a fact that statements exist. What is said in them may or may not be factual.
Correct.... And the signature on the mccAns statement shows they have seen it.... But not that they understand it.... That's how uk law works... I would think Portugal is similar
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Correct.... And the signature on the mccAns statement shows they have seen it.... But not that they understand it.... That's how uk law works... I would think Portugal is similar
I think you are wrong. In both countries a witness signing a statement means they are ratifying it in my opinion.
ratify
ˈratɪfʌɪ/Submit
verb
sign or give formal consent to (a treaty, contract, or agreement), making it officially valid.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ratify&oq=ratify&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3564j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
What a signature means in the UK;
Witness statements must:
Start with the name of the case and the claim number;
State the full name and address of the witness;
Set out the witness's evidence clearly in numbered paragraphs on numbered pages;
End with this paragraph: 'I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.' and
be signed by the witness and dated.
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It's a fact that statements exist. What is said in them may or may not be factual.
that is similar to what I said.
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Statements - I was thinking all you can say about a statement is that "Witness x states" Whatever a person states could be a truth or a lie. So it is not a fact as such IMO.
If you say A said X and have proof that A said X then that is fact. You are not saying X is a fact.
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If you say A said X and have proof that A said X then that is fact. You are not saying X is a fact.
If A = Kate McCann most of the people on social media will agree X is not a fact (based on personal experience). But I tend to the opinion they are wrong.
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We seem to be on a hiding to nothing here.
Four pages and no consensus on what is an easy task.
Opinion: a belief or feeling held that cannot be proven.
Fact: a statement that can be proven to be true or false.
Being argumentative by nature I can see why supporters "do" opinion rather than fact.
Thought for the day:
Were there a contract that was simply to pluck silver bars from a tree and flog them down the local market this forum would probably lose money at it.
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We seem to be on a hiding to nothing here.
Four pages and no consensus on what is an easy task.
Opinion: a belief or feeling held that cannot be proven.
Fact: a statement that can be proven to be true or false.
Being argumentative by nature I can see why supporters "do" opinion rather than fact.
Thought for the day:
Were there a contract that was simply to pluck silver bars from a tree and flog them down the local market this forum would probably lose money at it.
A fact is a statement that can be proven to be true..... But proved to whose, satisfaction and what level of proof
It's not as, simple as you think
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If A = Kate McCann most of the people on social media will agree X is not a fact (based on personal experience). But I tend to the opinion they are wrong.
If someone says something it's a fact that they said it. What they actually said can be a true fact, a lie, an opinion or a mistake.
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A fact is a statement that can be proven to be true..... But proved to whose, satisfaction and what level of proof
It's not as, simple as you think
You make my point for me vis a vis plucking silver bars from trees then losing money at it.
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If someone says something it's a fact that they said it. What they actually said can be a true fact, a lie, an opinion or a mistake.
But in this forum "If someone says something is a fact" then it has to have a cite or previously cited, i.e I think of a cite as some reference that carries some additional authority. Maybe we should define what a cite is too while we are at it.
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But in this forum "If someone says something is a fact" then it has to have a cite or previously cited, i.e I think of a cite as some reference that carries some additional authority. Maybe we should define what a cite is too while we are at it.
Are moderator classes needed or are you winding me up?
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Are moderator classes needed or are you winding me up?
This thread is educational. How do you define cite?
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The net value of the silver bar is dropping alarmingly.
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I think you are wrong. In both countries a witness signing a statement means they are ratifying it in my opinion.
ratify
ˈratɪfʌɪ/Submit
verb
sign or give formal consent to (a treaty, contract, or agreement), making it officially valid.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ratify&oq=ratify&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3564j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
What a signature means in the UK;
Witness statements must:
Start with the name of the case and the claim number;
State the full name and address of the witness;
Set out the witness's evidence clearly in numbered paragraphs on numbered pages;
End with this paragraph: 'I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.' and
be signed by the witness and dated.
If a witness is determined to lie in their statement signing or ratifying that declaration doesn't make the lie any more like the truth. But it sets the stage for any consequences if they were ever to be found out, and charged with a perjury offence.
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Is it?
Oh yes!
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If a witness is determined to lie in their statement signing or ratifying that declaration doesn't make the lie any more like the truth. But it sets the stage for any consequences if they were ever to be found out, and charged with a perjury offence.
what if the statement was written in a foreign language they could not understand
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what if the statement was written in a foreign language they could not understand
That would certainly help in their defence of a charge of perjury. It would make it harder to prove the case beyond reasonable doubt.
IMO: The way the statements were made had that flaw in them. No English statement to begin with therefore we will never know what the witness actually said even if the translation back from Portuguese to English (in the PJ files) is flawless.
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This thread is educational. How do you define cite?
As in academia, of course.
citation
sʌɪˈteɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a quotation from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work
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what if the statement was written in a foreign language they could not understand
People often sign things like contracts in their own languages that they don't understand. It's still binding.
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As in academia, of course.
citation
sʌɪˈteɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a quotation from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work
IMO:
We are talking about the Madeleine McCann case! Books - generally Kate McCann's book is treated with disdain. Some won't even read it, certainly won't buy it. So a quote from that will be questioned for sure. The other author's books aren't as accessible.
Paper as in scientific papers - are there any?
Scholarly work? - which ones (Documentaries might fall under this category) I'm sure the over all opinion of this forum just about justifies the description of scholarly work.
We are then left with blogs, newspapers, forums, Facebook groups and Wikipedia. and YouTube e.g. Richard and Lizzy HDH, Bogart! What a bunch!
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IMO:
We are talking about the Madeleine McCann case! Books - generally Kate McCann's book is treated with disdain. Some won't even read it, certainly won't buy it. So a quote from that will be questioned for sure. The other author's books aren't as accessible.
Paper as in scientific papers - are there any?
Scholarly work? - which ones (Documentaries might fall under this category) I'm sure the over all opinion of this forum just about justifies the description of scholarly work.
We are then left with blogs, newspapers, forums, Facebook groups and Wikipedia. and YouTube e.g. Richard and Lizzy HDH, Bogart! What a bunch!
Yes. For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case and the McCann case, as compared to what was claimed in the media, is yours for €30 IIRC. Professora Helena Machado rings a bell. University of Coimbra?
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Yes. For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case and the McCann case, as compared to what was claimed in the media, is yours for €30 IIRC. Professora Helena Machado rings a bell. University of Coimbra?
we know from the trial transcript that the blood claimed to belong to joanna was never forensically checked
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we know from the trial transcript that the blood claimed to belong to joanna was never forensically checked
Does this have ANYTHING to do with the thread title, Robbity's question or my answer to Robbity's question?
Are there any scientific papers? Yes. Fact.
There is a forum for the Cipriano case. Should you wish to discuss that, off ye pop.
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Does this have ANYTHING to do with the thread title, Robbity's question or my answer to Robbity's question?
Are there any scientific papers? Yes. Fact.
There is a forum for the Cipriano case. Should you wish to discuss that, off ye pop.
from your post just 2 posts ago...
For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case ..
so if you are going to introduce the cipriano case in a thread dont be too surprised if others respond........perhaps its best you keep it to the cipriano thread
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IMO:
We are talking about the Madeleine McCann case! Books - generally Kate McCann's book is treated with disdain. Some won't even read it, certainly won't buy it. So a quote from that will be questioned for sure. The other author's books aren't as accessible.
Paper as in scientific papers - are there any?
Scholarly work? - which ones (Documentaries might fall under this category) I'm sure the over all opinion of this forum just about justifies the description of scholarly work.
We are then left with blogs, newspapers, forums, Facebook groups and Wikipedia. and YouTube e.g. Richard and Lizzy HDH, Bogart! What a bunch!
You seem to be talking about two different things. If I provide a quote from Kate McCann's book, you can criticise what she wrote, you can debate what she meant, but you can't deny she wrote it.
Had I been given a cite for "Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" then I would have to accept the fact that he said it. As no cite has been provided I don't have to believe he said it.
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You seem to be talking about two different things. If I provide a quote from Kate McCann's book, you can criticise what she wrote, you can debate what she meant, but you can't deny she wrote it.
Had I been given a cite for "Rebelo admitted there could be mistakes" then I would have to accept the fact that he said it. As no cite has been provided I don't have to believe he said it.
you do not have to accept it as fact...it may be ...but I cannot find a cite. That may be because the article in the mail is no longer available
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Yes. For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case and the McCann case, as compared to what was claimed in the media, is yours for €30 IIRC. Professora Helena Machado rings a bell. University of Coimbra?
You posted a good summary of some of her articles here:
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/madeleine-by-helena-machado-filipe-santos/
This one was written by Felipe Santos as his doctoral project under Helena Machado and touches on the CSI effect via tabloid coverage:
http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/25449/1/Santos%20Filipe%20-%20The%20Dissemination%20and%20Popularisation%20of%20Surveillance.pdf
There's also this one in Portuguese, by Santos and Machado. I haven't found it online in English.
CRIME, DRAMA E ENTRETENIMENTO.
O CASO MADDIE E A META-JUSTIÇA POPULAR
NA IMPRENSA PORTUGUESA
http://www.ces.uc.pt/publicacoes/oficina/ficheiros/310.pdf
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You posted a good summary of some of her articles here:
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/madeleine-by-helena-machado-filipe-santos/
This one was written by Felipe Santos as his doctoral project under Helena Machado and touches on the CSI effect via tabloid coverage:
http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/25449/1/Santos%20Filipe%20-%20The%20Dissemination%20and%20Popularisation%20of%20Surveillance.pdf
There's also this one in Portuguese, by Santos and Machado. I haven't found it online in English.
CRIME, DRAMA E ENTRETENIMENTO.
O CASO MADDIE E A META-JUSTIÇA POPULAR
NA IMPRENSA PORTUGUESA
http://www.ces.uc.pt/publicacoes/oficina/ficheiros/310.pdf
I posted a link to the second one some time ago...it confirms no real evidence in the cipriano case
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I posted a link to the second one some time ago...it confirms no real evidence in the cipriano case
In neither of the cases, in fact, despite the hype in the tabloids.
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you do not have to accept it as fact...it may be ...but I cannot find a cite. That may be because the article in the mail is no longer available
Neither can I, and I have looked. I think it probably said the same as the other newspapers who were repeating the same story. Not a quote from Rebelo anywhere, just 'sources'.
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t one time it was a bannable offence on this forum to say there is no real evidence in the cipriani case....but the fact is apart from the confessions...there isnt
If you apply your noddle a little bit it becomes self evident there will be no "real evidence" as you call it so the "revelation" comes as no surprise.
The surprise is the fuss made over it.
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If you apply your noddle a little bit it becomes self evident there will be no "real evidence" as you call it so the "revelation" comes as no surprise.
The surprise is the fuss made over it.
The revelation was not accepted on the forum.....so the fact there is no real evidence against somone who was sentenced to 20 + years...comes as no surprise... i find it quite shocking...and its not no real evidence...as I call it....as you would find out if you read the link
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Meanwhile back to the real plot:
Airy points are support points such that the ends of a beam will have zero local slope.
Or if you prefer it may be expressed this way:
Supporting a uniform beam at the Airy points produces zero angular deflection of the ends
that is a fact with or without a cite.......except here of course.... 8)--))
p.s I am not being flash. It’s just that there is a rather nice bit of juvenile humour involved here that I know will piss off some of the more po faced on here.
“suspension at the Airy points” was always good for a giggle among generations of metrology/mechanics students both male and female.
For the more cultured we could do the little mnemonic we used to remember bits of our Latin irregular verbs.
I am sure someone will come along and tell us all the proper word where I have used "bits".
dic had a duc with fer on its back and that is a fac......
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Meanwhile back to the real plot:
Airy points are support points such that the ends of a beam will have zero local slope.
Or if you prefer it may be expressed this way:
Supporting a uniform beam at the Airy points produces zero angular deflection of the ends
that is a fact with or without a cite.......except here of course.... 8)--))
p.s I am not being flash. It’s just that there is a rather nice bit of juvenile humour involved here that I know will piss off some of the more po faced on here.
“suspension at the Airy points” was always good for a giggle among generations of metrology/mechanics students both male and female.
For the more cultured we could do the little mnemonic we used to remember bits of our Latin irregular verbs.
I am sure someone will come along and tell us all the proper word where I have used "bits".
dic had a duc with fer on its back and that is a fac......
thats quite tame....oh oh oh to touch and feel.....I wont complete the mnenomic ...im sure you can work out what its for
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from your post just 2 posts ago...
For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case ..
so if you are going to introduce the cipriano case in a thread dont be too surprised if others respond........perhaps its best you keep it to the cipriano thread
Here is my post.
"For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case and the McCann case, as compared to what was claimed in the media, is yours for €30 IIRC. Professora Helena Machado rings a bell. University of Coimbra?"
If you manipulate my posts again, I will simply go the short route of reporting it.
The paper in question covered both cases. Don't change it to Cipriano-only. Take your Cipriano comments to the Cipriano forum.
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The revelation was not accepted on the forum.....so the fact there is no real evidence against somone who was sentenced to 20 + years...comes as no surprise... i find it quite shocking...and its not no real evidence...as I call it....as you would find out if you read the link
In the case of a "no body" murder any conviction will flow from circumstantial evidence and nowt else.
Mainly because the prosecution will have to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that the victim is in fact dead which can only be done by circumstantial evidence.
As for what the forum accepts or does not accept hmmm well let's just say the forum is not reprensentive of leading advocates and legal minds so its opinion is somewhat restricted in scope.
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There is the ongoing issue of "Distinguishing Fact from Opinion" and the other problem is deciphering Alice's comments!
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There is the ongoing issue of "Distinguishing Fact from Opinion" and the other problem is deciphering Alice's comments!
Alice is speaking English IMO
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Alice is speaking English IMO
Well that is a good start. There are plenty of words I've never come across before though., a dialect maybe?
Do the UK citizens have certain characteristic written words as well as dialects? Or is it like Chinese where the written language is common but the pronunciation is so different there are like two main languages?
I always test myself on Alice's posts.
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Here is my post.
"For example, the capability of forensic analysis in the Cipriano case and the McCann case, as compared to what was claimed in the media, is yours for €30 IIRC. Professora Helena Machado rings a bell. University of Coimbra?"
If you manipulate my posts again, I will simply go the short route of reporting it.
The paper in question covered both cases. Don't change it to Cipriano-only. Take your Cipriano comments to the Cipriano forum.
Then if you mention cipriano don't be surprised if others respond.... And mention cipriano
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Well that is a good start. There are plenty of words I've never come across before though., a dialect maybe?
Do the UK citizens have certain characteristic written words as well as dialects? Or is it like Chinese where the written language is common but the pronunciation is so different there are like two main languages?
I always test myself on Alice's posts.
I guess us having vowels must confuse you fv n sxrs.... 8(0(*
If you can pronounce ghoti correctly you are well on your way to grasping English.
I am Scandawegian by ancestry so can do it in HurdyGurdy if you wish. 1001 things to do with a dead herring....1002 if you eat it [that's a clue]
"you'd like a cream bun or a meringue?"; "Yes you are, I would prefer an eclair". Geordie
" it's awroight he's just going to focus; what! both on us at the same toim?" Brummy
" oi loik yer winders Eli"; "them's bay winders Enoch "; "If them's bay winders, Eli, wot bin 'em?". Black Country.
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I guess us having vowels must confuse you fv n sxrs.... 8(0(*
If you can pronounce ghoti correctly you are well on your way to grasping English.
I am Scandawegian by ancestry so can do it in HurdyGurdy if you wish. 1001 things to do with a dead herring....1002 if you eat it [that's a clue]
"you'd like a cream bun or a meringue?"; "Yes you are, I would prefer an eclair". Geordie
" it's awroight he's just going to focus; what! both on us at the same toim?" Brummy
" oi loik yer winders Eli"; "them's bay winders Enoch "; "If them's bay winders, Eli, wot bin 'em?". Black Country.
North-West England
Cut = Canal
Cozzie = Swimming costume
Arrers = Darts
To gawp = To stare
Jackbit = Food
Nowt = Nothing
Nowty = Bad-tempered
Slutch = Mud
Scriking = Crying
Gob = Mouth
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Baines: Young children (note the difference to the more common "bairnes").
Booling: As in "booling a pram".
Breadcake: A large soft bread roll.
Brock: Broken.
Croggie: A lift on a friend's bike. "Gie us a croggie!"
Cockle over: Stumble or fall.
Duvall: A handsome man or playboy.
Frame: As in "frame lad!" - sort yourself out and shape up.
Gerroff: Get off.
Mafting: Hot. As in "it's mafting out there today, I'm sweating cobs."
Pattie: Mashed potato mixed with parsley and sage; formed into a patty and deep fried in batter.
Skeg: To take a look.
Tenfoot: Alley or passageway at the back or side of a building, usually 10 feet wide.
Twagging: To bunk off from school.
Warl: As in "can I borrow a tenner warl Monday?" meaning until Monday.
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North-West England
Cut = Canal
Cozzie = Swimming costume
Arrers = Darts
To gawp = To stare
Jackbit = Food
Nowt = Nothing
Nowty = Bad-tempered
Slutch = Mud
Scriking = Crying
Gob = Mouth
Massive apologies for this, and please look away if you're easily offended, but as I'm probably the only yam yam on here.....
F*ck me backards up a dead dog's arse = Oh my goodness me.
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I guess us having vowels must confuse you fv n sxrs.... 8(0(*
If you can pronounce ghoti correctly you are well on your way to grasping English.
I am Scandawegian by ancestry so can do it in HurdyGurdy if you wish. 1001 things to do with a dead herring....1002 if you eat it [that's a clue]
"you'd like a cream bun or a meringue?"; "Yes you are, I would prefer an eclair". Geordie
" it's awroight he's just going to focus; what! both on us at the same toim?" Brummy
" oi loik yer winders Eli"; "them's bay winders Enoch "; "If them's bay winders, Eli, wot bin 'em?". Black Country.
Do yow sound loike this, Alice mah babby?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS2N1mBsEdM
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In Wiltshire my kids used to rush to the door every week when a local man called asking me if I wanted 'Any taters or aiggs? They found his accent fascinating.
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Do yow sound loike this, Alice mah babby?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS2N1mBsEdM
Yes but a little less cultured!
OK then Yam Yam [or Yo Yo to Shropshire folk I believe]. What's the name of a Chinaman who lives half way between Stourbridge and Halesowen ?
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Yes but a little less cultured!
OK then Yam Yam [or Yo Yo to Shropshire folk I believe]. What's the name of a Chinaman who lives half way between Stourbridge and Halesowen ?
Li (Lye)
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Yes but a little less cultured!
OK then Yam Yam [or Yo Yo to Shropshire folk I believe]. What's the name of a Chinaman who lives half way between Stou
rbridge and Halesowen ?
Is that the Diana Dors thing, Alice?
Why did you call me back?
Then Alan Lake shot himself in the wardrobe?
Or are you doing the cool music thing?
?8)@)-)
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Yes but a little less cultured!
OK then Yam Yam [or Yo Yo to Shropshire folk I believe]. What's the name of a Chinaman who lives half way between Stourbridge and Halesowen ?
lye is pronounced.... lie....so no reference to any chinaman...but its famous for its Baltis
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The answer according to the yam yam wot told it to me is.
Yu Min Li. (pron lie to make the thing work).
OK today's little conundrum/riddle.
Where did Blake come from? (the poet that is not Sexton Blake).
To make Tiger Tiger work you have two options one at evens one at 6/4
Anyone done ghoti yet?