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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 05:51:33 PM

Title: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 05:51:33 PM: Kate McCann the 6th Sept 2007 "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."

I generally believe every word Kate utters, but I struggle with that statement. Does Kate keep to this story in her book. Does she not mention the business about Jane seeing a man or Russell and Matt heading off together at the check that should have been her's?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2018, 06:19:35 PM: Quote from: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 05:51:33 PM
Kate McCann the 6th Sept 2007 "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."

I generally believe every word Kate utters, but I struggle with that statement. Does Kate keep to this story in her book. Does she not mention the business about Jane seeing a man or Russell and Matt heading off together at the check that should have been her's?

It's strange how memory works;

When asked about May 1, 2007 (holiday), she says that on that day they left the apartment around 8:30PM, the same time that was repeated every night.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Although the Wednesday was different according to Jes Wilkins;

After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell......At this time his wife [Kate] was putting the children to bed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 10:45:12 PM: I Googled the complete phrase ""Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table" and it only gave results that related to the actual statement and not to any discussion of the issue around Russell and Jane going back and forth to their sick child. I am finding that amount of movements hard to explain as to why some part of that wasn't locked into her memory.
I find it odd that no one in the last 11 years has discussed this statement of Kate's.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 11:20:45 PM: In her book Kate acknowledges Jane left the table. "By this time Jane had left to make sure her daughters were OK"
She mentions Matt going and returning but nothing yet about Russell going back with Matt.

For that whole episode of Russell going to clean up after his daughter being sick and Jane having to go to relieve him so he can get back to have is meal to be missing from the book is significant IMO.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 11:23:07 PM: It is hard to explain how this isn't remembered but because Kate doesn't discuss it I find it hard to get a lead onto it.

I wonder if Gerry mentions Russell in his arguido statement?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 11:40:06 PM: The word Russell comes up twice http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm -
1. "--- Regarding the disclosure of Madeleine's photograph, he says that he gave the authorities a photograph from a digital camera, and he thinks it was Russell who printed it at the main 24-hour reception of the complex."

2. "Terms of Joining

On this date, due to being considered of interest to the investigation, joined to the files are two cover sheets of a children’s book, with handwritten notes on the inside covers, which were provided to this police force on the night of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann by one of those who feature in the case files and a member of the McCann couple group of friends, named Russell O’Brien."

Nothing about visits to their apartment. Jane Tanner is not mentioned at all.

OK what about the prior statements?

There is a document with a list of questions the McCanns wanted asked of their friends:

"Did you see Jane leave the table during the meal? At what time? How long was she away? What did she say when she came back? Was her behaviour or attitude different when she returned?

Did you see Matthew leave the table during the meal? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he came back? Was his behaviour or attitude different when he returned?

Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

Did you see Kate leave the table during the meal? At what time? How long was she away? What did she say when she came back? How did she look and behave? Were you shocked at what she said? What did you do?

Did you go into the McCann apartment? Did you go into the bedroom where the children were sleeping? Can you describe what you saw? Did you see the twins? Did you notice anything unusual about them?"

Which in some way is pretty weird for they don't mention anything about this themselves!
Source "3085 to 3088 -Group 1 Faxed copy of Letter with questions to ask persons whom McCanns want interviewed (in English and Portuguese)"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS-WANTED.htm
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 11:51:05 PM: It is not an insignificant mix up as Gerry admits in his 10th May statement:

"----- The deponent had had the wrong idea that MATHEW had seen the bedroom external blinds closed when he was there at 21H30, the reason for that was that he thought the disappearance would have been happened between 21h30 and 22h00, it being that, actually, he is [?] convinced that the abduction occurred in the period understood to be between his visit at 21h05 and MATHEW'S visit at 21H30. Only about 01h00 on 4 May 2007 did he learn through RUSSELL that his companion, JANE, at 21h10, could have seen an individual crossing the top of the road with a child in his arms, that may or may not have been his daughter MADELEINE."

Yet the supposed agreed timeline says "SEQUENCE OF EVENTS: THURSDAY 3rd MAY 2007
20.30 TO 22.00 AS RECALLED BY TAPAS 9" http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm:

"JT checked only 5D entering via the deadlocked door on the car park side of the apartment. Both children inside were asleep. She did not check 5A or 5B.

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM had also returned. The entire party then begins eating their starters which have arrived.
2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.
2130: RJO remains in 5D as daughter has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance. The outside gate is probably shut, but the child gate on the stairs up to the patio is possibly open. The patio door is closed but unlocked.
MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot. He does not enter the bedroom but can see through a now quite open door (greater than 45 degrees) into the room.
He sees the two twins in their cot, but does not check Madeleine formally as no sounds and twins asleep. He recalls the room did seem lighter than expected, perhaps suggesting the shutter had been raised or the curtains opened?
2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell.
2140: JT returns to 5D to take over care of Evie from RJO.
2145: RJO returns to table to eat main course leaving JT in 5D.
2155: RMO asked time at table. RJO's main course arrives. "
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 11:54:48 PM: That to me is a complete contradiction in that the McCanns want to know about Russell and Jane's movements and what was said when they returned yet Kate says "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."!
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 07, 2018, 03:55:07 AM: Quote from: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 11:54:48 PM
That to me is a complete contradiction in that the McCanns want to know about Russell and Jane's movements and what was said when they returned yet Kate says "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."!
If Kate and Gerry were at the table when Russell and Jane left to do their checks wouldn't they be just as aware of what time they returned? Is there some degree of finger pointing going on here? Matt reported back to the McCanns "all quiet" when he returned. Do the others answer those questions?

Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: sadie on April 07, 2018, 09:48:20 PM: Quote from: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2018, 05:51:33 PM
Kate McCann the 6th Sept 2007 "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."

I generally believe every word Kate utters, but I struggle with that statement. Does Kate keep to this story in her book. Does she not mention the business about Jane seeing a man or Russell and Matt heading off together at the check that should have been her's?
When I met Kate, it was only for a brief 2 or 3 minutes but her eye contact was total and sincere. Her eyes met mine and stayed there and she listened intently.

Someone who concentrates that hard on another person may well not notice people moving on the other side of the table.

She sat between Rachel and Fiona and my bet is that almost all her conversation was with her two main friends, and Gerry and David. Mainly she would be looking to her right hand side.

(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/table.jpg)

It is also likely that she conversed less with Dianne, Jane and Russell who sat on her LHS and who she hardly knew before that holiday IIRC. Please correct me if I am wrong on hardly knowing Jane and Russell

Easy to miss the comings and goings to and from a table when concentrating on a conversation as Kate did with me.

AIMO
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 03:15:39 AM: Jane leaves twice before 10:00 PM according to the agreed timeline. How long was Russell away and Kate had not noted that either?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 06:08:38 AM: I'm struggling and then the mcCanns have specific questions about the Tanner and O'Brien absences from the table! Yet they were supposedly at the table at these times too! How come they were not aware of it too?

Why would they want to know what was said? Were they suspicious of them in some way?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 08:37:52 AM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

Rachael http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm:

Rachael does not answer any of these questions.
"Russell was still up with Evie, so Jane ate her dinner and then she went up to relieve Russell, which is like our standing joke of the holiday, erm and so Russell came back and he'd ordered steak or something but they couldn't do another one and brought him his food, we'd all finished I think, erm so he was eating his dinner and Kate said that she you know was, must have been about five to ten then or ten o'clock."

The time Rachael mentions is related to Kate's check not when Russell returns.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2018, 09:29:44 AM: Quote from: G-Unit on April 06, 2018, 06:19:35 PM
It's strange how memory works;

When asked about May 1, 2007 (holiday), she says that on that day they left the apartment around 8:30PM, the same time that was repeated every night.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Although the Wednesday was different according to Jes Wilkins;

After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell......At this time his wife [Kate] was putting the children to bed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9AIAAOSwa0VaAP2F/s-l300.jpg)
Absolutely: strange that it was not easier to locate a man with the distinctive hairstyle "he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
The location was certainly relevant.
The timing was relevant.
Wonder if it too was a disguise pre-dating Oakley?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: G-Unit on April 08, 2018, 10:30:10 AM: Quote from: Brietta on April 08, 2018, 09:29:44 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9AIAAOSwa0VaAP2F/s-l300.jpg)
Absolutely: strange that it was not easier to locate a man with the distinctive hairstyle "he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
The location was certainly relevant.
The timing was relevant.
Wonder if it too was a disguise pre-dating Oakley?

Wilkins memory certainly seems unreliable. He was either in the restaurant, on the road or in the toilet when he saw this man. The man was either alone or with a woman. I wonder why Wilkins changed his mind between Friday and Monday about being in the restaurant?

4th May
"between 8.30 and 9pm, while he was in the "TAPAS" restaurant, he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

7th May
"I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I could not see inside the restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

April 2008
"At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing. When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area. He also was in the WC but appeared to be a taking a long time"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 08, 2018, 10:42:51 AM: Quote from: Brietta on April 08, 2018, 09:29:44 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9AIAAOSwa0VaAP2F/s-l300.jpg)
Absolutely: strange that it was not easier to locate a man with the distinctive hairstyle "he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
The location was certainly relevant.
The timing was relevant.
Wonder if it too was a disguise pre-dating Oakley?

He was found and booked into the tapas that night at 9pm - Sperry. Hardly suspicious @)(++(*

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/T/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_608.jpg)
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 08:30:51 PM: "between 8.30 and 9pm, while he was in the "TAPAS" restaurant" - could just mean he was on the inside WRT the secondary reception entrance. I see it as Jez saw Sperry prior to seeing Gerry. The timing seems to be OK until Wilkin's rogatory where he fails to identify the time he meets Gerry.
I also find it odd that the PJ don't go and interview Michael Sperry.

And why was Bridget O'Donnell never interviewed separately to see if her recollection of what Jeremy did was the same as his.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 09:38:00 PM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

Matt Oldfield http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm:

He know Jane did the first check: "I think the kids hadn't settle particularly well and that's why they, erm, Russell and Jane had come separately in the evening, and so she went back, erm, to check on, presumably to check on, to check on her kids and then came back and we, erm, had starters by then'."
Why does he introduce doubt there with the word "presumably"?

Matt makes it pretty clear Russell goes with him. ", so it may well have been sort of closer to sort of twenty past, twenty-five past nine, sometime round there before we did the next check'.

00.23.05 4078 'Okay'.
Reply 'Erm, so I went to check on Grace and I stood up and Russell stood up and said he was going to go and check as well and Kate stood up and I said, you know, do you want us to go and check on, erm, do you want me to go and check on your kids, erm, and she said yes. And I think I offered at that point just because we had been together all week and we had similar routines and it just kind of seemed like a nice thing to do that would save her a journey back up and, you know, it may or it may not have been different. But, erm, I said that and she said yeah fine and she said that the patio door was open and go in through there. And there was me and Russell as well, so, erm, you know, it seemed, at the time, a very reasonable thing to do, even though it was the first time that we'd certainly done it. Also, having somebody else there with me, it sort of felt sort of more, more sort of natural and normal. So we went out and we debated about whether we'd go in first or go in later, but Russell wanted to get back because Evie had been a little bit unsettled and so we went back first and he went in and I went in to check on Grace and actually went in through the door, unlocked the door, looked in, into her room, all fine, came back out, shut the door, erm, went over to his apartment and he said that Evie had been sick so he was staying back with her. So I went back and did the check on five 'A', on Madeleine and the kids, erm, and went back through the patio entrance, so through the gate, through the patio doors, erm, there was, it was light enough to see through the apartment and there sort of a little table light on the right at the end of the sofa and when you walk into the room, you could see straight into it, because the door was open."

How Kate would not be aware that the person doing her check was not accompanied by Russell to me is unbelievable.

Now focusing on Russell's return as per the Rogatory questions "Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?" We've covered when he left - i.e. the same time as Matt did.

"How long was he away?":
"Reply 'Erm, well everybody, apart from Russell and I were back, so I arrived back before Russell, erm, I think I said, all quiet, or something to, erm, to, you know, Kate and Gerry and just sort of sat back down and we carried on and I told Jane that Evie had been sick and so later on when his food came, we said, he's going to be late, can we sort of send it back or you just keep it warm and he'll have it later on, erm, we had a conversation as normal, I just remember launching into this Jane relieving Russell'.

4078 'We touched on that yesterday'.
Reply 'It probably came up but seemed inappropriate to mention. But, erm, she went off to relieve Russell, as it were, to sort of take over, erm, sort of duties and make sure that Evie was alright and then Russell came back and they actually redid his food, erm, I mean, he was eating it when the next sort of checks went, which were about half an hour later.'"

Jane leaves before Russell comes back. Has Matt mentioned when did Russell return? IMO not really.
Did he answer "How long was he away"? Nothing about a period of time there.

Does Matt answer the next question:
"What did he say when he returned?"

He talks of chatting here "Gerry said or Kate said, it's about thirty minutes since the last check, we ought to go, so that's why I think it's thirty minutes, erm, because I think that main course would have taken a bit longer because, you know, Russell came back and we started chatting, you know, how's Evie and all that sort of thing, erm, so, I think he was still eating at the time, so we waited until he'd finished before we went'."

so we waited until he'd finished before we went must be referring to a time prior to going together at around 9:30. So was the conversation prior to at as well?

In other words what he is saying is not chronological and really doesn't make sense.

So in conclusion Matt nearly answers one question only but then introduces a delay " so we waited until he'd finished before we went" into the time Russell left.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 10:52:33 PM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

The question is about Russell and as the story goes Jane is back at their apartment looking after the kids so really can only give an estimate of when Russell left the apartment after she took over the duties.

Russell - the questions are about Russell so we will need to look at what he says about himself:

"Erm, the, and the only real point of reference that we can, that I can remember now is that, is that somebody did ask what time it was at some point, probably while Kate was away, and Rachael, erm, sort of said that it was around the ten o’clock mark, so I think, you know, although we have to be a little bit, you know, there’s a bit of, erm, a bit of a guesstimate going on, on sort of the other times, there as certainly a time check that was announced, you know, around the ten o’clock mark. Erm, my food had arrived, well my food had arrived I think by this point."

So is he also not answering the questions?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 08, 2018, 11:02:54 PM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

OK so we are now left with the Payne group, David Fiona and Dianne. They already have a cloud hanging over their testimony. How long were you talking to Kate, 30 seconds, 5 minutes or 30 minutes?
Where did you pass Matt on your way down the the Tapas?

Can we trust their answers? I do not know.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Brietta on April 09, 2018, 12:13:50 AM: Quote from: pathfinder73 on April 08, 2018, 10:42:51 AM
He was found and booked into the tapas that night at 9pm - Sperry. Hardly suspicious @)(++(*

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/T/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_608.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/280x280_RS/f0/d9/b6/f0d9b6f9d6a1bc9b7528323d028c5560.jpg)
Michael Sperrey ~ according to textusa
*%87 I suppose it all depends on how one would describe a rasta hairstyle.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 09, 2018, 12:39:13 AM: Was that taken on 3 May 2007?

------ In the main reception (open 24h) of the Ocean Club, the signatory [undersigned] was able to observe a person with long hair, curly, blonde in colour, with camouflage shorts and green sweat-shirt, which fit the description of the suspect of the "Rastas", it being that I questioned the receptionist about him, who said that this individual and his wife are guests in the hotel and he has been tireless, since yesterday, in search of the missing girl. Attached are photocopies of their passports as well as the hotel registration form. ----

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

121 to 125 - External diligences carried with OC staff followed by copies of passports inc copies of the Michael & Clare Sperrey passport identified as the man with 'Rasta' hairstyle,

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Brietta on April 09, 2018, 02:08:21 AM: Quote from: pathfinder73 on April 09, 2018, 12:39:13 AM
Was that taken on 3 May 2007?

------ In the main reception (open 24h) of the Ocean Club, the signatory [undersigned] was able to observe a person with long hair, curly, blonde in colour, with camouflage shorts and green sweat-shirt, which fit the description of the suspect of the "Rastas", it being that I questioned the receptionist about him, who said that this individual and his wife are guests in the hotel and he has been tireless, since yesterday, in search of the missing girl. Attached are photocopies of their passports as well as the hotel registration form. ----

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

121 to 125 - External diligences carried with OC staff followed by copies of passports inc copies of the Michael & Clare Sperrey passport identified as the man with 'Rasta' hairstyle,

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm

Who identified him? The only witness who described seeing the man with the 'Rasta' hairstyle? In my opinion there is no mistaking dreadlocks for curly hair.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 09, 2018, 10:37:48 PM: I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

The woman was his wife and he had blonde hair. Jez saw him at around 9pm when the Sperrey's were booked at the tapas. Another remarkable coincidence?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Brietta on April 09, 2018, 10:50:35 PM: Quote from: pathfinder73 on April 09, 2018, 10:37:48 PM
I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

The woman was his wife and he had blonde hair. Jez saw him at around 9pm when the Sperrey's were booked at the tapas. Another remarkable coincidence?

Who identified Michael Sperrey as 'Rasta man'?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: sadie on April 09, 2018, 10:53:26 PM: Quote from: Brietta on April 08, 2018, 09:29:44 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9AIAAOSwa0VaAP2F/s-l300.jpg)
Absolutely: strange that it was not easier to locate a man with the distinctive hairstyle "he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
The location was certainly relevant.
The timing was relevant.
Wonder if it too was a disguise pre-dating Oakley?

Original post by 'twisted'

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2917.msg101640#msg101640

And responses by the very perceptive 'Pegasus'

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2917.msg102161#msg102161
and
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2917.msg103134#msg103134
and
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2917.msg105210#msg105210
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 09, 2018, 11:34:37 PM: That was Pegasus' view on the matter but was that true? The real test would have been to get Jez Wilkins to confirm that they had identified the right man.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 09, 2018, 11:41:08 PM: Quote from: Brietta on April 09, 2018, 12:13:50 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/280x280_RS/f0/d9/b6/f0d9b6f9d6a1bc9b7528323d028c5560.jpg)
Michael Sperrey ~ according to textusa
*%87 I suppose it all depends on how one would describe a rasta hairstyle.
When Arlindo turns up just after 9:20 he doesn't say the Sperrys were there, the booking sheet has been ticked so I presume they turned up for their meal.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 10, 2018, 12:19:42 AM: Quote from: Brietta on April 09, 2018, 10:50:35 PM
Who identified Michael Sperrey as 'Rasta man'?

Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 04:22:54 AM: Quote from: pathfinder73 on April 10, 2018, 12:19:42 AM
Tweedledum and Tweedledee
They were GNR officers.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 04:47:39 AM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?
David Payne http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm:

"... Err again I was aware that err you know that other people were leaving the table, err I know that err the, err between Russell and Jane they were leaving the table err to look after Evie.
It transpired that at some stage she'd been unwell and err Evie, sorry then Russ, so Russell was basically, was missing the part of the main course and then Jane went you know and ate hers and then disappeared off to take over so we all you know I think made the same joke that Jane said oh I've gone to relieve you know Russell and you know that's, and then you know I remember the other people that night you know again it's in part of the things that we discussed after but you know I was sort of aware as well that there was, rather than all just checking on their own they were just cross-checking as well but still you know very err frequently. Err and then you know it got to obviously when Kate, Kate left, I hadn't realised that she'd, you know, left the table again just busy chatting, then Kate came back just after ten o' clock, you know absolutely distraught err you know just, you know her face I'll never forget."
So David doesn't really cover those specific questions either.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 05:04:02 AM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

Now we'll see how Fiona Payne gets on. Fiona Payne http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

"Reply
'Erm, after Jane, I think the next, the next people to leave were Matt and Russell together, erm, and that, again, I would assume is around the sort half nine mark, erm, just to fit in with the way they were checking the children. Erm, tut, and Matt, I do remember Matt coming back and saying well, you know, that 'Evie had been sick so Russell was staying with her', erm, and had told Jane, you know, 'If you can kind of eat up and then go back and we'll swap'. And I remember Jane wolfing down her main meal that had just arrived, erm, really quickly and then sort of heading back to relieve Russell. Erm, huh, I know everyone else has said this, because there was a lot of joking about Jane relieving Russell (laughs)'.

1485
'I was trying not to giggle then. Are you able to say what sort of, what time that was''

Reply
'As I say, I'm guessing, in my mind, it's about half nine, because that would fit in with what they've done every other evening, and I know that was the sort of time it felt like, that half an hour had elapsed and, plus, thinking we'd had our starters and the main meals were arriving, so that was, that all sort of fits in, in my mind, with, with the time. Erm, Russell had ordered a steak, I remember that, that night, because I had ordered a steak and they were really perfectly cooked and his arrived, obviously, and he wasn't there to eat it, erm, so they said they'll keep it warm and I remember thinking well, you know, it'll be really rubbish if you keep it warm. Erm, anyway Jane, as I say, wolfed hers down and headed back and then Russell came back to the table and, erm, and I recall this because I thought how good the service was that they actually came to the table and said 'Oh don't worry', you know, 'we'll cook you another steak', you know, 'the last one would be ruined'. So he sat down and there was a bit of a wait while they did another steak for Russell, erm, and so that must be between sort of quarter to ten and ten, because I remember just before Kate returned to the table having, having gone to check on, erm, on their kids, because that was pretty much when Russell's steak arrived, I remember that being at that point'.

00.43.59
1485
'Sorry, his steak arrived when Kate went to go and check or when Kate came back''

Reply
'I remember the steak being here sort of just before Kate came back'."

OK some progress - the steak comes back just before Kate came back' But the other 2 questions left unanswered.
How long was he away?
What did he say when he returned?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 05:15:37 AM: Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

What are the chances of Dianne Webster being the only one who answers the McCann questions?
Dianne Webster http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm :

"Now I can’t remember, I know that err Jane err during that time, you see there, I can’t remember it was Jane or Russell when they went back to check on their children, Evie had been err sick, so I think err I think it might, might have been Russell that found her sick and he came back and I think Jane went back then and that might have been, yeah that must have been at the time when err no, I don’t know. I know they had to sort of err relieve each other because Evie had been sick.”

4078 ”Yeah.”
Reply ”One of them would stay, or stayed in the apartment while the other one gobbled down their meal and then, so I think Russell, Russell must have gone back and let Jane come and eat her meal because by that time err we’d, we’d ordered our main courses and err Russell had ordered steak and of course he wasn’t at the table when it was ready and he said oh you know (inaudible) to go back, he’ll be back later, once Jane finishes hers err just keep his steak warm err so Jane sort of gobbled down her, her meal and went, went back so that Russell could come and have his dinner and, and this must have been getting on for, I don’t know, maybe ten to ten or something like that. Again I wasn’t looking at the time but just thinking to what happened is that err Russell came back to table and err they’d actually cooked him a fresh steak and he was just starting to tuck into it when err Kate had obviously gone back to check on the children, came running in you know, as far as I can recollect she said you know she’s gone, Gerry, Madeleine’s gone, screaming you know.”"

"4078 ”Can you remember what conversation was going on in the time before Kate discovered Madeleine missing?”

Reply ”Well again now, because err you know when you’ve got a group of nine people you’re not all talking…”

4078 ”No.”

Reply ”In the middle of the table, you know, I would be, I was probably talking to Russell when he came back you know and talking about the fact he’d got a new steak, he didn’t get a warmed up one. Err no I can’t remember any conversation, I mean obviously one of the jokes err probably was the fact of err Russell rescuing Matt, being able to steer the boat to pick him up out the water, you know.”
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 09:33:31 AM: When you compare the importance to the McCanns to have their questions asked and in the end no one specifically answers any part of the 4 questions direct, some (2) answer parts indirectly in an around about fashion.

The police directing the questions to the 7 witnesses don't make a strong effort to get these questions answered. Maybe they couldn't see the relevance of the questions.
It is difficult to say the questions were deliberately avoided, even though in my suspicions I think this is the case.
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 10:30:26 PM: Using the statements of the two people who nearly answered one of the McCann questions ("Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?") They both referred to a conversation involving jokes that day, so we should look to see if the people who heard that conversation behave in an odd way that could in part be attributed to a conversation involving a joke.

There were 7 people interviewed but we can excuse Jane if she was in her apartment, so 6 of the Tapas 7 left to answer the 4 questions so we should expect 24 answers but we only get 2 partial answers.

Of those 6 two were sitting closer to the McCann side of the table (Rachael and Fiona) and might not have overheard what Russell said when he returned, so how does Rachael's behaviour differ from Dianne's?
In fact the women all react in different ways that make it rather difficult to see a pattern.

As I recall it:
1. Dianne stayed at the table.
2. Rachael went to her apartment (right next door to the McCanns, spoke with Jane, and Fiona but not Kate)
3. Fiona stays predominantly with Kate.
4. Jane stays near her apartment, talks with Russell and Matt at first and only with Gerry later.

Did Dianne talk to Fiona privately? - yes I think they did.
Did David discuss the situation with Fiona or Jane?
I do recall there seemed to be a discussion among the subgroup (David Matt Russell Fiona) regarding calling the police. You would wonder why that was decided by that group and not Kate and Gerry?
Title: Re: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2018, 10:45:45 PM: It is particularly evident that there are discussions going on which don't involve the McCanns, they are appear to be kept out of the loop.

You expect that from Kate's statement. Kate is only aware that Matt left, but not the others. That is weird in itself, and then to ask the police to enquire as to what Russell talked about when he returned, even though they (the McCanns) themselves were at the table but they weren't part of the conversation.

And from my study it appears the Tapas 7 were reluctant to divulge what the conversation was about.