Kate is a terrible person for calling the two Policemen who were first to the scene 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee' yet they called the McCann's 'praying arabs' when the McCann's were distraught in their bedroom. That's ok though.
Kate is a terrible person for calling the two Policemen who were first to the scene 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee' yet they called the McCann's 'praying arabs' when the McCann's were distraught in their bedroom. That's ok though.
So you can easily explain what Tweedledum and Tweedledee means than, what it is supposed to convey? Everyone knows what praying like Arabs means and can easily visualise the situation.
Kate is a terrible person for calling the two Policemen who were first to the scene 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee' yet they called the McCann's 'praying arabs' when the McCann's were distraught in their bedroom. That's ok though.
Do you have a cite showing that the first two policemen called the McCanns 'praying arabs'? I only found these statements;
He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA.htm
After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm
Yet in Amarals documentary the parents are portrayed as being on top of the bed. If I remember correctly.The words "Amarals documentary" could be a clue.
I do wonder why,?
The words "Amarals documentary" could be a clue.
Do you have a cite showing that the first two policemen called the McCanns 'praying arabs'? I only found these statements;
He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA.htm
After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm
I didn't say the first two policemen called the McCann's praying arabs, I said Kate called them Tweddle Dee and Tweedle Dum and was called nasty for doing so, when the Portuguese police called the McCann's praying arabs, when they were distraught in the bedroom, and they weren't called nasty were they?
Ok CORRECTION !! It was when Gerry so relieved the Police had finally arrived he threw himself down on the floor, 'like a praying arab' the Portuguese police described him, obviously not in touch with a father who had lost his child and had waited so long for the police to be doing something, the man was in absolute despair.
I didn't say the first two policemen called the McCann's praying arabs, I said Kate called them Tweddle Dee and Tweedle Dum and was called nasty for doing so, when the Portuguese police called the McCann's praying arabs, when they were distraught in the bedroom, and they weren't called nasty were they?
Ok CORRECTION !! It was when Gerry so relieved the Police had finally arrived he threw himself down on the floor, 'like a praying arab' the Portuguese police described him, obviously not in touch with a father who had lost his child and had waited so long for the police to be doing something, the man was in absolute despair.
So do you have a cite for any Portuguese policeman describing them as 'praying arabs'?
So, if not the police, who was it, because I remember reading it.
Kate is a terrible person for calling the two Policemen who were first to the scene 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee' yet they called the McCann's 'praying arabs' when the McCann's were distraught in their bedroom. That's ok though.
I take it you can't find a cite upholding your allegation about the Portuguese police? It was said, but not by the police as far as I know. They seem to be blamed for everything.
I don't think the GNR officers ever referred to the incident as such, they were too professional to sink to those depths.
It was Amaral I found this -
06.04 – According to the testimony of the Ocean Club’s manager, when the GNR patrol arrived on location, the child’s father threw himself at the officers’ feet, like a praying Arab, completely out of control over his daughter’s disappearance. The same scene was repeated, according to the officers, in the couple’s bedroom.
Link - https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/maddie-truth-of-lie-documentary.html
Well if you have read the book 'Alice in Wonderland' as a child, you would be familiar with Tweedledum and Tweedledee they didn't know anything about what was going on, and at a loss to help. Kate explains later in her book why she got this impression, but then goes on to say [and sounding apologetic] they found out that the two officers were indeed out of their depth, they were not trained for the task they had been sent to investigate.
The praying Arabs or wailing Mullah descriptions are pure internet creations.From memory Amaral says that expression in one of his documentaries.
It was Amaral I found this -So Amaral is quoting the words of one of the OC managers and the only Manager who says that in her statement is Sylvia Batista.
06.04 – According to the testimony of the Ocean Club’s manager, when the GNR patrol arrived on location, the child’s father threw himself at the officers’ feet, like a praying Arab, completely out of control over his daughter’s disappearance. The same scene was repeated, according to the officers, in the couple’s bedroom.
Link - https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/maddie-truth-of-lie-documentary.html
So Amaral is quoting the words of one of the OC managers and the only Manager who says that in her statement is Sylvia Batista.
Well done Rob, you've found the culprit and it wasn't a Portuguese policeman was it? Kate McCann gave the GNR officers childish nicknames but they spoke of her and her husband respectfully. Not that I see the 'praying arab' simile as an insult, it's a description in my opinion.I think it’s quite offensive and racially mocking actually. It’s taking the kick out of another race’s religion whilst simultaneously mocking the parents of a child on discovering their child had just gone missing. IMO.
Well done Rob, you've found the culprit and it wasn't a Portuguese policeman was it? Kate McCann gave the GNR officers childish nicknames but they spoke of her and her husband respectfully. Not that I see the 'praying arab' simile as an insult, it's a description in my opinion.
It wasn't Amaral who said it first though, was it?
Well done Rob, you've found the culprit and it wasn't a Portuguese policeman was it? Kate McCann gave the GNR officers childish nicknames but they spoke of her and her husband respectfully. Not that I see the 'praying arab' simile as an insult, it's a description in my opinion.Raised by Silvia and repeated by Amaral.
Do we only have amsrals claim for this... There are several things in the doc that are plainly untrue.... I can't see the OC manager using these offensive wordsRead her statement, it is in there alright.
Read her statement, it is in there alright.
Do you have a link... That needs, a cite.. The OC manager was, a man... Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this ...what's her nameThe Manager that was a man (John Hill) worked for Mark Warner not Ocean Club, I have seen him reported to be " John Hill, operations manager for Mark Warner at Ocean Club" but at other times Ocean Club Manager.
The Manager that was a man (John Hill) worked for Mark Warner not Ocean Club, I have seen him reported to be " John Hill, operations manager for Mark Warner at Ocean Club" but at other times Ocean Club Manager.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
"Then Gerry kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5."
The Manager that was a man (John Hill) worked for Mark Warner not Ocean Club, I have seen him reported to be " John Hill, operations manager for Mark Warner at Ocean Club" but at other times Ocean Club Manager.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
"Then Gerry kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5."
I think it’s quite offensive and racially mocking actually. It’s taking the kick out of another race’s religion whilst simultaneously mocking the parents of a child on discovering their child had just gone missing. IMO.
Amaral said it in his documentary and also said that they had repeated the action in their bedroom, in other words were like 'praying arabs' when they were kneeling by the bed crying. That I find quite insensitive and insulting.
I agree.
I find their kneeling to pray beside a bed quite a natural pose for stricken Catholic parents to adopt.
What is perplexing is why Amaral, in his documentary, allowed this to be altered to the bizarre shot of the actors in the roles of the parents being on top of the bed.
Which he got from the statement of Batista...
I think it is worth posting the full accounts of this episode which occurred in Main Reception.
From Silvia Batista statement:
7 May 2007
"After she arrived she went immediately to the apartment A5 where she found several people inside the apartment and outside of it. She entered in the flat but soon left without having spoken with anyone, because she was informed that elements of the GNR were in the principal reception. She went there to meet them.
When she came close to the elements of the GNR she found that behind her was
Gerry, Madeleine's father, accompanied by another man whose identity she doesn't remember.
Then Gerry kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm#p5p1289to1290
From Silvia Batista statement:
15 May 2007
"When she
arrived at the resort she went immediately to apartment 5A where she found several people as
much/many inside the apartment as outside it."
"When she arrived at the officer's location she saw that behind them was Gerry, Madeleine's
father, with another person but she does not remember who it was. At that time Gerry was on the
ground on his knees, he hit the ground with both his hands, looking like an Arab at prayer, and
emitted two screams of rage [fury, madness] but she could not understand what he said. Then
Gerry stood up and accompanied the deponent and the other person to the GNR vehicle next to
the 5A apartment."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm#p8p1975to1977
I see nothing wrong with the phrase praying Arab or Arab at prayer. It is simply a description that everyone will recognise. Now fu**ing tosser’, I do find that offensive and especially when directed at a police officer who was only doing his job.
I see nothing wrong with the phrase praying Arab or Arab at prayer. It is simply a description that everyone will recognise. Now fu**ing tosser’, I do find that offensive and especially when directed at a police officer who was only doing his job.
I see nothing wrong with the phrase praying Arab or Arab at prayer. It is simply a description that everyone will recognise. Now fu**ing tosser’, I do find that offensive and especially when directed at a police officer who was only doing his job.
I think it’s quite offensive and racially mocking actually. It’s taking the kick out of another race’s religion whilst simultaneously mocking the parents of a child on discovering their child had just gone missing. IMO.
I see nothing wrong with the phrase praying Arab or Arab at prayer. It is simply a description that everyone will recognise. Now fu**ing tosser’, I do find that offensive and especially when directed at a police officer who was only doing his job.there are plenty of police officers “only doing their job” that could rightly be described using that term. What makes members of the PJ exempt from criticism? Kate was expressing her thoughts and feelings honestly in her book, if she thought they were f..king tossers at the time then she is simply faithfully recording events and thoughts as they happened. Perhaps she shouldn’t have been so honest and therefore saved you from being so offended?
Well that's a surprise Faithlilly !!
Post removed
Did you mean to say taking the kick? I've not heard that saying before. In my opinion too much is being read into what Silvia Batista said, she was just describing what she saw. Anything else is opinion as we don't know what her intentions were.taking the mick- my phone chose to change the word to kick.
There is no doubt that Kate McCann's remarks about the GNR officers were derogatory and were intended to be.
To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn’t shake the images of Tweedledum and
Tweedledee out of my head. [madeleine]
What you fail to remember Faithlilly, was that Kate had been on friendly terms with the Police officer, then found herself being accused of hiding her child's body. Kate said that mantra under her breath, so what would you have been thinking? 'Nice policeman?' maybe?
Let’s cut through all the emotive nonsense and concentrate solely on the phrase ‘praying Arab’.I would find “praying like a Jew” to be quite racist personally. But anyway, do you think the description evokes sympathy or ridicule? It seems to have been used by some to ridicule the McCanns ever since, why do you think that is?
Why do you find ‘praying Arab’ offensive ? Is it perhaps because you consider being referred to as an arab offensive in itself ? What if we substitute arab for catholic or jew ? Would you find that offensive too ? Isn’t the phrase simply a way of conjuring up an image everyone will be familiar with?
there are plenty of police officers “only doing their job” that could rightly be described using that term. What makes members of the PJ exempt from criticism? Kate was expressing her thoughts and feelings honestly in her book, if she thought they were f....ing tossers at the time then she is simply faithfully recording events and thoughts as they happened. Perhaps she shouldn’t have been so honest and therefore saved you from being so offended?
I would find “praying like a Jew” to be quite racist personally. But anyway, do you think the description evokes sympathy or ridicule? It seems to have been used by some to ridicule the McCanns ever since, why do you think that is?
taking the mick- my phone chose to change the word to kick.
The point is no matter what the context calling someone a ‘f**cking tosser’ is offensive to every right minded person. To take offence at the phrase. praying Arab, which simply describes an image everyone is familiar, with while defending a phrase that most people would deplore is hypocrisy of the most unvarnished kind.so in your opinion there is never any excuse to call someone an FT even if they have gravely upset you or done you wrong, but it’s ok to use racial imagery to describe the actions of distraught parents?
So what evidence do you have that Silvia Batista's intention was to 'take the mick' out of Arabs?i have no evidence she intended to mock Arabs but in effect she is comparing a ritualistic commune with one’s god to the actions of hysterical parents distraught at the discovery of their missing child. It’s insensitive at the very least imo
so in your opinion there is never any excuse to call someone an FT even if they have gravely upset you or done you wrong, but it’s ok to use racial imagery to describe the actions of distraught parents?
The point is no matter what the context calling someone a ‘f**cking tosser’ is offensive to every right minded person. To take offence at the phrase. praying Arab, which simply describes an image everyone is familiar with, while defending a phrase that most people would deplore is hypocrisy of the most unvarnished kind.
so in your opinion there is never any excuse to call someone an FT even if they have gravely upset you or done you wrong, but it’s ok to use racial imagery to describe the actions of distraught parents?
The f....ing tosser slight could well be applied to KM herself given what occurred.
Let’s cut through all the emotive nonsense and concentrate solely on the phrase ‘praying Arab’.
Why do you find ‘praying Arab’ offensive ? Is it perhaps because you consider being referred to as an arab offensive in itself ? What if we substitute arab for catholic or jew ? Would you find that offensive too ? Isn’t the phrase simply a way of conjuring up an image everyone will be familiar with?
It is the fact that Amaral found it 'odd' and chose to add it to his documentary, showing the McCann's lying on the bed wailing, I find it mocking, insensitive and degrading.
Yet again you are taking my words and making them say what you want them to say.I don’t think it’s hypocritical at all. One phrase is undoubtedly rude (but understandable in the circumstances imo), the other phrase was ill-advised and inappropriate in the circumstances imo. But both parties are entitled to say whatever they want.
Everyone has the right to use whichever phrase they wish however it is hypocrisy to criticise your interpretation of the phrase praying arab while simultaneously defending the use of a phrase that most of civilicised society would find appalling.
It depends on the intention, surely? You have no evidence that Silvia Batista intended any offence when she said what she said. In my opinion we know exactly what Kate McCann's intentions were; to convince her audience of her innocence and of the ineptitude of the Portuguese police.
This man did not deserve my respect. ‘F*****g t****r . .[madeleine]
Again I think it's, quite reasonable for kate to use this term in the circumstances
What about the fact that it is deemed acceptable in this forum to refer to the McCanns as shit parents.... Is that really acceptable
What about the fact that it is deemed acceptable in this forum to refer to the McCanns as shit parents.... Is that really acceptable
It is an adjective which seems to be acceptable on this forum but only in relation to the parents of a missing child.
I doubt it would be allowed to describe the capabilities of other main persons in this sad case.
It is an adjective which seems to be acceptable on this forum but only in relation to the parents of a missing child.
I doubt it would be allowed to describe the capabilities of other main persons in this sad case.
Why don't you try it and see ? 8(>((
I can think of a few shit private investigators and former PJ officers if that helps?
I can think of a few shit private investigators and former PJ officers if that helps?
So it's fine to have the opinion that amaral was, a, shit copper
Apparently that word is now considered vulgar and profane here in the UK but acceptable in Japan, well according to Wikipedia?
I would use the words inept or rubbish or useless copper.
The point is no matter what the context calling someone a ‘f**cking tosser’ is offensive to every right minded person. To take offence at the phrase. praying Arab, which simply describes an image everyone is familiar with, while defending a phrase that most people would deplore is hypocrisy of the most unvarnished kind.
You just have to accept that some like to make a career out of becoming offended on behalf of others.So you would defend Kate's, description of the two GNR as perfectly acceptable... Good
In my experience they frequently receive their just deserts at the hands of those very people on whose behalf they purport to be offended.
You just have to accept that some like to make a career out of becoming offended on behalf of others.
In my experience they frequently receive their just deserts at the hands of those very people on whose behalf they purport to be offended.
So you would defend Kate's, description of the two GNR as perfectly acceptable... Good
I don't normally use it... I think it seriously lowers the tone of the forum.... But a senior mod has set the acceptable standards
You may not use the word, but you're happy to repeat it when it suits your argument. I wouldn't use it because it's very imprecise. In my opinion the whole group acted without due consideration for their children's safety in the evenings. One was sick, and may have had a lucky escape;
Boy, four, choked to death on his own vomit in hospital bed
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626067/Boy-four-choked-death-vomit-hospital-bed-nurse-went-two-hour-break.html#ixzz5Dasy5DTw
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Daniel died while his mother was present at his bedside.
The point being that the same thing could have happened to any of those eight children in Portugal, but their doctor parents seemed oblivious to that possibility. They all lacked basic common sense and awareness of the way a child can go from fine to quite ill quite quickly. That, in my opinion, is a measure of their lack of parenting skills.
I would defend anyone's right to say what they pleased within the law.
They must of course accept that their utterances may show them up to be childish, ignorant or small beer and possibly all three.
I would defend anyone's right to say what they pleased within the law.On that basis you should defend the mccanns choice if childcare as that too appears to be within the law
They must of course accept that their utterances may show them up to be childish, ignorant or small beer and possibly all three.
You just have to accept that some like to make a career out of becoming offended on behalf of others.and yet some people seem terribly offended on the pj’s behalf about the fuvking tosser s and tweedle Dee comments. Pathetic really IMO.
In my experience they frequently receive their just deserts at the hands of those very people on whose behalf they purport to be offended.
On that basis you should defend the mccanns choice if childcare as that too appears to be within the law
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/kg_small.jpg)(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/gnr1_small.jpg)
In my opinion the above stills from Amaral's depiction of the scene from his book epitomises your sentiment precisely.
I found the depiction indeed childish, ignorant, small beer as well as petty, mean and spiteful.
there are plenty of police officers “only doing their job” that could rightly be described using that term. What makes members of the PJ exempt from criticism? Kate was expressing her thoughts and feelings honestly in her book, if she thought they were f....ing tossers at the time then she is simply faithfully recording events and thoughts as they happened. Perhaps she shouldn’t have been so honest and therefore saved you from being so offended?
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/kg_small.jpg)(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/gnr1_small.jpg)
In my opinion the above stills from Amaral's depiction of the scene from his book epitomises your sentiment precisely.
I found the depiction indeed childish, ignorant, small beer as well as petty, mean and spiteful.
and yet some people seem terribly offended on the pj’s behalf about the fuvking tosser s and tweedle Dee comments. Pathetic really IMO.
Is it any wonder the poor GNR officers couldn't get any sense out of them? If I had come across such a scene in my former career my first thoughts would be to call a medic.
I'm not 'terribly offended on the pj’s behalf' at all. It was said about them, not to them. The Tweedledum and Tweedledee comment I find unwarranted and childish. Consequently I see Kate's decision to tell the world how her mind works as an error of judgement. Not everyone applauds when the police are abused.
Then again perhaps she should have answered all the questions put to her frankly and honestly and then just possibly they could have been finally cleared of suspicion. However, as it stands, the Portuguese Supreme Court in their final judgement made the extraordinary pronouncement to the effect that at things stand, they had not been cleared.
I would imagine most police officers both here and in Portugal have been "abused" in much more colourful language than "Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
I hope they have received counseling to enable them to cope with such abuse.
Then again perhaps she should have answered all the questions put to her frankly and honestly and then just possibly they could have been finally cleared of suspicion. However, as it stands, the Portuguese Supreme Court in their final judgement made the extraordinary pronouncement to the effect that at things stand, they had not been cleared.I think this is what we call in Forumland a "strawman". It certainly has no bearing on the topic subject header "the name calling which marks this case out". IMO.
Is that an attempt to show how childish you are, how ignorant you are,how small beer you are or all three?I have reported your comment a it is clearly an ad hom but before it gets deleted perhaps you would care to explain in what way my comment was
I agree, so no need, as I said, to be concerned about them. It's the person telling everyone about her low opinion of them who is more in need of help in my opinion.
I'm not 'terribly offended on the pj’s behalf' at all. It was said about them, not to them. The Tweedledum and Tweedledee comment I find unwarranted and childish. Consequently I see Kate's decision to tell the world how her mind works as an error of judgement. Not everyone applauds when the police are abused.It depends which police are being abused though doesn't it? There's a few on this forum who mock the efforts of the Met and their "wild goose chase" in PdL, but I don't see you condemning such mockery. Why is that?
I agree, so no need, as I said, to be concerned about them. It's the person telling everyone about her low opinion of them who is more in need of help in my opinion.Why does she need help exactly? Because she has a low opinion of the police, or because she expressed it in a book? What sort of help should she be given in your view?
It depends which police are being abused though doesn't it? There's a few on this forum who mock the efforts of the Met and their "wild goose chase" in PdL, but I don't see you condemning such mockery. Why is that?
I see nothing wrong with the phrase praying Arab or Arab at prayer. It is simply a description that everyone will recognise. Now fu**ing tosser’, I do find that offensive and especially when directed at a police officer who was only doing his job.I say that about your post too, but weren't they just thoughts in her head, not words said aloud?
Did you mean to say taking the kick? I've not heard that saying before. In my opinion too much is being read into what Silvia Batista said, she was just describing what she saw. Anything else is opinion as we don't know what her intentions were.What Kate said about the GNR was factual, they were out of their depth. Not a good position to in when attending an incident. Somehow that speaks of the McCanns innocence doesn't it.
There is no doubt that Kate McCann's remarks about the GNR officers were derogatory and were intended to be.
To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn’t shake the images of Tweedledum and
Tweedledee out of my head. [madeleine]
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/kg_small.jpg)(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/GAD/gnr1_small.jpg)
In my opinion the above stills from Amaral's depiction of the scene from his book epitomises your sentiment precisely.
I found the depiction indeed childish, ignorant, small beer as well as petty, mean and spiteful.
She and her husband were indeed in need of professional and experienced police support.
I'm sure Kate would appreciate your concern.
In your opinion and in their opinion the Portuguese police fell short. Whether those opinions are valid or not I don't know. I'm not concerned about Kate McCann at all because I don't know her. If one of my relatives or friends chose to share similar thoughts so frankly four years after the event I would be concerned that they were making themselves look vindictive. The GNR officers on and off duty came to search for her daughter all night and carried on for seven days. Were they ever thanked for their efforts?If you thought your child was abducted and everyone just carries on as if she has wandered off, and in the long run it appears your thoughts are proven right because the child is not found, I don't see the need to be grateful for the unsuccessful searches.
No one here is offended by the way Muslims pray, what a very strange misinterpretation of what has been said.
In my opinion, this display of drama is quite unnerving actually. They are like 'praying arabs' because that is how arabs pray, catholics only kneel and bow the head slightly.
PS I checked with my closest Muslim friend and he couldn't stop laughing at people being offended by the way he prays.
This dramatic effect would confuse police officers. And it is important to recognise when they got all distressed like.. hmm yeah when the police arrived. Strange indeed.
In your opinion and in their opinion the Portuguese police fell short. Whether those opinions are valid or not I don't know. I'm not concerned about Kate McCann at all because I don't know her. If one of my relatives or friends chose to share similar thoughts so frankly four years after the event I would be concerned that they were making themselves look vindictive. The GNR officers on and off duty came to search for her daughter all night and carried on for seven days. Were they ever thanked for their efforts?If one of your relatives or friends was badly treated by the police (in their view) do you think expressing how they felt at the time about the way they were handled would be just them being vindictive, and not simply them expressing an honestly held view of their feelings? Do you view every strongly worded public criticism of police behaviour as simply vindictive?
If you thought your child was abducted and everyone just carries on as if she has wandered off, and in the long run it appears your thoughts are proven right because the child is not found, I don't see the need to be grateful for the unsuccessful searches.
No one here is offended by the way Muslims pray, what a very strange misinterpretation of what has been said.
If you thought your child was abducted and everyone just carries on as if she has wandered off, and in the long run it appears your thoughts are proven right because the child is not found, I don't see the need to be grateful for the unsuccessful searches.I find this very odd.
It seems to be the context of how it was said that makes to the McCanns weird for adopting this position. It being described as like praying Arabs, which in turns makes the phrase sound like a insult.
No Misinterpretation here...
If no one was offended, then why are some supporters whining about someone saying they fell and looked like praying arabs? like that was a nasty thing to say?
As I mentioned, they only got this distressed in front of the police... weird!!!, they didn't do that at the feet of the pope!
I find this very odd.
May I suggest that if you ever make it to Luz, telling the citizens that their time effort in searching for Madeleine is not deserving of gratitude is hardly likely to endear you to the locals.
I find this very odd.We are looking at it from Kate's point of view. She thinks her child has been abducted and no effort is being made to investigate that.
May I suggest that if you ever make it to Luz, telling the citizens that their time effort in searching for Madeleine is not deserving of gratitude is hardly likely to endear you to the locals.
It seems to be the context of how it was said that makes to the McCanns weird for adopting this position. It being described as like praying Arabs, which in turns makes the phrase sound like a insult.
OK the McCanns reverently and humbly humbled themselves like Arabs in prayer. It seemed like the right thing to do in the circumstance.
We are looking at it from Kate's point of view. She thinks her child has been abducted and no effort is being made to investigate that.
IMO Madeleine woke and wandered so I think the searching was essential. It all depends on your point of view.
No one is whining, in fact that is a rather pejorative term to use IMO, did you intend to be insulting? If you read people's replies on this subject I think it's fully explanatory what the views are on this subject and none of them is that people object to the way Muslims pray - that is quite an absurd deduction to draw from what has been written IMO.
No Misinterpretation here...
If no one was offended, then why are some supporters whining about someone saying they fell and looked like praying arabs? like that was a nasty thing to say?
As I mentioned, they only got this distressed in front of the police... weird!!!, they didn't do that at the feet of the pope!
When I first read Silvia's statement I thought she comes across as being prejudiced against Arabs because of their form of prayer. Do most people think the same way who knows, but describing the GNR as Tweedledee and Tweedledum is rather comical rather than prejudiced to me.
How it was said? So someone was offended because of the WAY it was said. praying like an arab, swimming like a fish, laughing like a hyena? all insults if you want to be offended, the trick is to stop being offended about nothing at all.
Their behaviour was strange, weird why do that in front of the police and not in the TAPAS bar when they were first told about the 'abduction' AND the twins slept through this racket? I thought Kate said she didn't want to wake them up by shouting to the others that MBM was missing/ had been abducted? change of heart eh in front of the police who may have arrested them?
YES, and So what evidence did she and her family provide to show this was the case? NONE!Don't bring "her family" into it. I'm talking about Kate's point of view.
No one is whining, in fact that is a rather pejorative term to use IMO, did you intend to be insulting? If you read people's replies on this subject I think it's fully explanatory what the views are on this subject and none of them is that people object to the way Muslims pray - that is quite an absurd deduction to draw from what has been written IMO.
They only got distressed in front of the police? Do you have a cite for them not being distressed at any other time?
of course, not all Arabs are Muslims so at the very least it was a somewhat ignorant stereotype.
Don't bring "her family" into it. I'm talking about Kate's point of view.
Kate's point of view has been well documented -, sold to the media, forced upon a mislead UK public, and trashed by many experts in the field.
She comes across as a vindictive, unstable person IMO name calling, police officers, cursing Amaral, then acting all catholic mother like butter wouldn't melt... even though catholic mothers are never encouraged to drink and leave their children alone.. it is all show.show show. most people can see right through it.
of course, not all Arabs are Muslims so at the very least it was a somewhat ignorant stereotype.
I say that about your post too, but weren't they just thoughts in her head, not words said aloud?
We are looking at it from Kate's point of view. She thinks her child has been abducted and no effort is being made to investigate that.
IMO Madeleine woke and wandered so I think the searching was essential. It all depends on your point of view.
Please stop trying to wriggle the contents of my words to suit your interpretation. Thank you.As I haven't suggested they did I don't think the onus is on me to provide a cite. You however claimed the McCanns were only distressed when the police arrived. There are plenty of witnesses to their distress both before and after the police arrived, aren't there? Or is it only real distress if you look like you're praying like an Arab (sic)?
it is very clear to me that some people were complaining that the terminology was indeed insulting.
cite? I can find no witness comments on the distressed state as was described by SB and PJ officers who also saw this behaviour before the arrival of the police. They did not fall down like praying arabs, screaming etc in the tapas bar, or back at the flat, or in the street. So I cannot cite they did this, as it isn't documented by anyone who was there. Can you provide a cite that they did behave like this before the PJ arrived?
vindictive...unstable...might be best to choose your words carefully when writing such a post
so what is it when people make statements like the above about Kate McCann? Perfectly unvindictive?
Kate's point of view has been well documented -, sold to the media, forced upon a mislead UK public, and trashed by many experts in the field.
She comes across as a vindictive, unstable person IMO name calling, police officers, cursing Amaral, then acting all catholic mother like butter wouldn't melt... even though catholic mothers are never encouraged to drink and leave their children alone.. it is all show.show show. most people can see right through it.
Gosh what a revelation! we never knew that.I made a statement of fact, what's your problem with it?
As I recall from days in Amman approx 6% are Christian. So in Jordan at least a "typical" Arab will be Muslim.
Would you care to delineate your proposition?
They were words in her head until she decided to write them down and publish them.I doubt if she names these officers.
It depends which police are being abused though doesn't it? There's a few on this forum who mock the efforts of the Met and their "wild goose chase" in PdL, but I don't see you condemning such mockery. Why is that?
I doubt if she names these officers.
If you thought your child was abducted and everyone just carries on as if she has wandered off, and in the long run it appears your thoughts are proven right because the child is not found, I don't see the need to be grateful for the unsuccessful searches.
If one of your relatives or friends was badly treated by the police (in their view) do you think expressing how they felt at the time about the way they were handled would be just them being vindictive, and not simply them expressing an honestly held view of their feelings? Do you view every strongly worded public criticism of police behaviour as simply vindictive?
I think there's a difference between criticising an investigation on a forum and making personal comments about individual police officers in a book.What essentially is the main difference in your view?
Criticism is one thing, name-calling another.to be honest I'd rather be described in a book as a f..king tosser than to be described as corrupt, incompetent or ill-educated, for example. One description is far more damaging and hurtful than the other, but which in your view?
I doubt if she names these officers.
It's quite clear who they are; the first two officers to arrive.So you object to what Kate writes in her book but not to what amaral writes in his... That really puts things into perspective
So you object to what Kate writes in her book but not to what amaral writes in his... That really puts things into perspectiveyes but Amaral didn't refer to the McCanns as Tweedledum and Tweedledee, he merely used the book to portray them as deceitful body occulters, which is far less hurtful obviously.
to be honest I'd rather be described in a book as a f....ing tosser than to be described as corrupt, incompetent or ill-educated, for example. One description is far more damaging and hurtful than the other, but which in your view?
yes but Amaral didn't refer to the McCanns as Tweedledum and Tweedledee, he merely used the book to portray them as deceitful body occulters, which is far less hurtful obviously.
...and?Hardly "making personal comments about individual police officers in a book" if they are unnamed.
His book, as was proved by the court case, was a description of a police investigation up to a point of time. He is describing what the investigation thought.And Kate was describing what she thought. Her description of the two unnamed GNR officers are unlikely to have had the same impact on them as Amaral's thoughts about the McCanns had on them.
One is libellous and the other isn't, which is why some posts are removed and others aren't.which is libellous and which isn't then?
So when the police arrive at a crime scene their job is to carry out the instructions of those they find on the spot, not to make their own decisions?The GNR were not trained to handle abductions from what I understand so it is not a matter of having a choice.
So you object to what Kate writes in her book but not to what amaral writes in his... That really puts things into perspective
I don't think object is quite the right word. I think she made an error of judgement by revealing more about herself than about the GNR officers. It's a litany of blame all aimed at others imo.She was writing the book from her persepctive - of course she's going to reveal more about herself and her feelings than about two nameless GNR officers and their take on events.
His book, as was proved by the court case, was a description of a police investigation up to a point of time. He is describing what the investigation thought.
In my opinion, this display of drama is quite unnerving actually. They are like 'praying arabs' because that is how arabs pray, catholics only kneel and bow the head slightly.
PS I checked with my closest Muslim friend and he couldn't stop laughing at people being offended by the way he prays.
This dramatic effect would confuse police officers. And it is important to recognise when they got all distressed like.. hmm yeah when the police arrived. Strange indeed.
I don't think object is quite the right word. I think she made an error of judgement by revealing more about herself than about the GNR officers. It's a litany of blame all aimed at others imo.
The GNR were not trained to handle abductions from what I understand so it is not a matter of having a choice.
'A litany of blame all aimed at others' you say. Kate had been accused of hiding her child's body, Ricardo showed her the video of the dogs and kept stopping it and saying blood had been found belonging to Madeleine, the DNA matched Madeleine, this was her daughter they were talking about. Can't you imagine the horror she must have felt [no you can't as you think the McCann's are guilty] but try and imagine for one minute that they are innocent. Can you imagine being accused of that crime? So what would you be thinking 'what a nice man' maybe? Get real.And not only that but being accused by the same man you had previously considered to be on your side, almost like a friend.
Which is why they brought in the PJ; just in case the parents were correct.So not as Angelo claimed because the parents we're acting strange... The PJ we're brought in because a crime was suspected
Which is why they brought in the PJ; just in case the parents were correct.Hours later.
'A litany of blame all aimed at others' you say. Kate had been accused of hiding her child's body, Ricardo showed her the video of the dogs and kept stopping it and saying blood had been found belonging to Madeleine, the DNA matched Madeleine, this was her daughter they were talking about. Can't you imagine the horror she must have felt [no you can't as you think the McCann's are guilty] but try and imagine for one minute that they are innocent. Can you imagine being accused of that crime? So what would you be thinking 'what a nice man' maybe? Get real.
I made a statement of fact, what's your problem with it?There is nothing wrong with it as a bald fact.
I have reported your comment a it is clearly an ad hom but before it gets deleted perhaps you would care to explain in what way my comment was
a) childish
b) ignorant
c"small beer" (whatever that means)
It is a fact that some people find the two comments I mentioned highly offensive and take especial exception to them being used in relation to the PJ. Perhaps you could comment on that, rather than on me. Many thanks.
If you look carefully there is, at the end of the string of wordy things a funny shaped little Johnny with a dot on its tail. That is a question mark denoting the preceding wordy things frame a question. An ad hom attack cannot take the form of a question. It was more a sort of attack on your post designed to make you wonder whether or not your argument needed a few Acrow Props shoving under it to make it stand up.
I am sure there will be an expert on parsing and stuff along shortly to tell me where I am wrong.
Thank You
There is nothing wrong with it as a bald fact.I didn't hint at anything, I stated it - praying like Arabs is a misnomer as not all Arabs pray the same way - fact. Praying like Muslims would have been more accurate, if in fact Gerry & Kate were really ever in such a position, kneeling with their heads to the carpet, backsides aloft and palms down either side of their heads.
The Arab World consists of 236MM people of whom 18MM are non muslim.
By inspection it can be seen that more than 90% of The Arab World are muslims.
Your hinting at perceived ignorance stereotyping or whatever it was on your part, because most arabs will kneel on their mat to pray at the appropriate time will not stand up to objective scrutiny.
which is libellous and which isn't then?
And not only that but being accused by the same man you had previously considered to be on your side, almost like a friend.
You make it sound like it was sprung on them. They knew very well which way the investigation was developing. Paiva had a job to do; nothing personal, I'm sure.What makes you think "they knew very well which way the investigation was developing"?
The one making damaging comments about someone working reputation.right so Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum causes no damage to someone's working reputation glad we got that sorted.
You make it sound like it was sprung on them. They knew very well which way the investigation was developing. Paiva had a job to do; nothing personal, I'm sure.Which is all very well when looked at dispassionately as a third party and not in any way personally involved.
I didn't hint at anything, I stated it - praying like Arabs is a misnomer as not all Arabs pray the same way - fact. Praying like Muslims would have been more accurate, if in fact Gerry & Kate were really ever in such a position, kneeling with their heads to the carpet, backsides aloft and palms down either side of their heads.
So you took a cheap shot at the person who described Kate N Gerrys 'distraught parents' event because she should have said praying like Muslims not Arabs. So thereforE, they were not praying like the person describes? you do not like this one bit, none of the supporters do, some even go to deny it happened "if in fact Gerry & Kate were really ever in such a position, kneeling with their heads to the carpet, backsides aloft and palms down either side of their heads."Would you have expected to behave in exactly the same manner every time they moved location?
Hmmmmm
Now then why did they wait until the police were there to behave like that? They didn't do this in the tapas bar or anywhere else...knowing she was 'abducted' probably by a paedophile Gang as Gerry mentioned.
So you took a cheap shot at the person who described Kate N Gerrys 'distraught parents' event because she should have said praying like Muslims not Arabs. So thereforE, they were not praying like the person describes? you do not like this one bit, none of the supporters do, some even go to deny it happened "if in fact Gerry & Kate were really ever in such a position, kneeling with their heads to the carpet, backsides aloft and palms down either side of their heads."Why did they wait until the police were there to behave like that?
Hmmmmm
Now then why did they wait until the police were there to behave like that? They didn't do this in the tapas bar or anywhere else...knowing she was 'abducted' probably by a paedophile Gang as Gerry mentioned.
Why did they wait until the police were there to behave like that?You're implying this was a deliberate act on their part - to put on a show for the police - is that what you believe they did?
You're implying this was a deliberate act on their part - to put on a show for the police - is that what you believe they did?
Instead of trying to create strawman arguments by deciding why people ask questions why don’t you answer them?
Instead of trying to create strawman arguments by deciding why people ask questions why don’t you answer them?Well as I am not the McCanns I cannot answer what I assume was a rhetorical questiion, unless you would like me to make something up?
You're implying this was a deliberate act on their part - to put on a show for the police - is that what you believe they did?I repeated the question posed by MTI.
I repeated the question posed by MTI.Were you expecting an answer that directly addressed the question though? Who here would know?
Were you expecting an answer that directly addressed the question though? Who here would know?They could venture an opinion.
In my opinion name-calling is calling people names. The only individuals I have seen doing that are Kate McCann and her friends. The names used to describe the Portuguese police included Tweedledum and Tweedledee, baby face, and the sotto voce comment about Paiva.Well exactly - it's not really that important in the grand scheme of things. Some people who have a low opinion of the woman anyway enjoy making something out of nothing by citing these words in her book. The topic is regularly discussed as if it somehow proves something significant. It's not the first time an author has "name called" in an autobiography and I doubt it will be the last. My opinion is - sharing her honest thoughts and feelings at the time, even at the risk of painting herself as a less than fragrant example of the "fairer" sex, is nothing for her to be ashamed about plus it adds colour and authenticity to the book.
Although I find the name-calling childish I don't think it can be described as marking the case out.
Well exactly - it's not really that important in the grand scheme of things. Some people who have a low opinion of the woman anyway enjoy making something out of nothing by citing these words in her book. The topic is regularly discussed as if it somehow proves something significant. It's not the first time an author has "name called" in an autobiography and I doubt it will be the last. My opinion is - sharing her honest thoughts and feelings at the time, even at the risk of painting herself as a less than fragrant example of the "fairer" sex, is nothing for her to be ashamed about plus it adds colour and authenticity to the book.
Well exactly - it's not really that important in the grand scheme of things. Some people who have a low opinion of the woman anyway enjoy making something out of nothing by citing these words in her book. The topic is regularly discussed as if it somehow proves something significant. It's not the first time an author has "name called" in an autobiography and I doubt it will be the last. My opinion is - sharing her honest thoughts and feelings at the time, even at the risk of painting herself as a less than fragrant example of the "fairer" sex, is nothing for her to be ashamed about plus it adds colour and authenticity to the book.
Indeed.
Much ado about nothing springs to mind!
Just another excuse to criticize the mother of a missing little girl.
One wonders what is achieved by this endless criticism of Madeleine's parents.
Indeed.
Much ado about nothing springs to mind!
Just another excuse to criticize the mother of a missing little girl.
One wonders what is achieved by this endless criticism of Madeleine's parents.
Why does being the mother of a missing child place Kate McCann above criticism?
It’s not an excuse to criticise, it’s just exploring the mentality of those involved in the case to try and find any hint as to what happened on that holiday.
It’s not an excuse to criticise, it’s just exploring the mentality of those involved in the case to try and find any hint as to what happened on that holiday.
I think Kate's name calling of a few people she had direct acquaintance with pales into insignificance after comparison with this brutal blog post written by someone who has never met her.
http://laidbareblog.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Blaze%3A%20A%20mother%27s%20jealousy
I couldn't read all of that!
It certainly explored Kate's mentality , but didn't give give any hint of what might have happened to Madeleine.
A very, very nasty and quite sickening blog imo.
I assume the quote in blue from Amarals book is obviously aimed at Kate??
It doesn't for criticism which is valid.
Namely their decision to leave the children in the apartment while they dined nearby.
However, the criticism extends to their every action, word and now thought .
And I ask again what has this eleven years of criticism achieved?
The one question to that Blooger could be, "Just what Mental Illness does Kate not suffer from?"
In my opinion she did indeed paint herself as a less than fragrant example of the "fairer" sex. Those admiring her for her honesty would, I assume, also support and admire their children if they referred to a teacher as a f*****g t****r so long as the child truly felt that way. I would be more inclined to tell them it wasn't acceptable to use that language at all.With respect I thing that is a ridiculous analogy. Firstly I don't believe children should abuse teachers to their face (but who has;t called a teacher a tosser or worse behindd their back) , secondly Kate McCann did not abuse a policeman to his face so no offence was caused. If a child grows up and writes about their sadistic teachers who made their lives hell and described them as f....ing tossers in a memoir then I would be perfectly fine with that, I suppose you wouldn't?
If being the mother of a missing child doesn't disbar criticism why mention it?
You seem to be permitting criticism of one particular decision. In my opinion it's not anyone's place to tell others what they can or cannot criticise.
In many instances commentators are accused of criticising when they are actually commenting. Pointing out that the parents didn't search for their daughter is often seen as a criticism when it isn't imo.
Why did they wait until the police were there to behave like that?How do you know that before the GNR arrived, they hadn't done exactly the same in the privacy of their apartment ?
Why did they wait until the police were there to behave like that?
How do you know that before the GNR arrived, they hadn't done exactly the same in the privacy of their apartment ?
How do any of us know if upon the GNR arriving, they were in further despair because someone told them that The GNR were not the "proper Police", they are actually soldiers. They were not detectives deakling with Kidnaps etc., but merely according to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Republican_Guard_(Portugal)
[The GNR is] responsible for the preventive police and highway patrol in the countryside and small towns of Mainland Portugal
also,
At national level, GNR also has duties of customs enforcement, coastal control, nature protection, search and rescue operations and state ceremonial guards of honor.
The PJ , however, are the police responsible for kidnappings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol%C3%ADcia_Judici%C3%A1ria
(Judicial Police) is the national criminal investigation police agency of Portugal, focused in fighting serious crimes, including homicides, kidnapping, organized crime, terrorism, illegal drug trade, corruption, cybercrime and financial crime. It is integrated into the Ministry of Justice, but operates under the supervision of the Public Ministry.
Were they upset, destitute even, that having waited so long, the WRONG force arrived ?
What a botch up with the Golden Hour already gone! But with some of the "silver" hour still available !
Little wonder after the stress of waiting so long to then get the wrong force there that they collapsed, imo
Talking of name calling I've just noticed that someone called Darren Osbourne has been called an Idiot over 8,700 times on this forum.
How do you know that before the GNR arrived, they hadn't done exactly the same in the privacy of their apartment ?
How do any of us know if upon the GNR arriving, they were in further despair because someone told them that The GNR were not the "proper Police", they are actually soldiers. They were not detectives deakling with Kidnaps etc., but merely according to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Republican_Guard_(Portugal)
[The GNR is] responsible for the preventive police and highway patrol in the countryside and small towns of Mainland Portugal
also,
At national level, GNR also has duties of customs enforcement, coastal control, nature protection, search and rescue operations and state ceremonial guards of honor.
The PJ , however, are the police responsible for kidnappings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol%C3%ADcia_Judici%C3%A1ria
(Judicial Police) is the national criminal investigation police agency of Portugal, focused in fighting serious crimes, including homicides, kidnapping, organized crime, terrorism, illegal drug trade, corruption, cybercrime and financial crime. It is integrated into the Ministry of Justice, but operates under the supervision of the Public Ministry.
Were they upset, destitute even, that having waited so long, the WRONG force arrived ?
What a botch up with the Golden Hour already gone! But with some of the "silver" hour still available !
Little wonder after the stress of waiting so long to then get the wrong force there that they collapsed, imo
GNR Search and Rescue
PJ Murder and Kidnapping
Seems reasonable when someone goes missing to send the GNR in first.
Mark Warner called the police, and they were organising searches for a wandered child at the time, as they continued to do all night. Were they told that it was an abduction? Why didn't they listen?That's a critical point.
That's a critical point.
When did 'abduction' enter the fray?
If the GNR had to prioritise between a security call in Odiaxere, and an abduction in Luz, which one would have come out on top?
I don't know the content of the calls from the OC to GNR Lagos, but nothing is suggestive of 'abduction'.
That's a critical point.
When did 'abduction' enter the fray?
If the GNR had to prioritise between a security call in Odiaxere, and an abduction in Luz, which one would have come out on top?
I don't know the content of the calls from the OC to GNR Lagos, but nothing is suggestive of 'abduction'.
"A security alarm has gone off" v "A 3 year old girl is missing in the dark near water".
No contest - unless property is more valuable than human life.
Talking of name calling I've just noticed that someone called Darren Osbourne has been called an Idiot over 8,700 times on this forum.
If the calls came in simultaneously then the child would get priority, but police otherwise would respond to the earlier call.I think people are missing the point.
I believe the nickname given to Andy Redwood was 'Deadwood' wasn't it and this man was just doing his job too.
The failure of the digs to present any thing new during his tenure would suggest not very well.what do you think that the digs were about?
I think people are missing the point.
If the 10.41 call was of sufficient urgency, why not interrupt the Odiaxere work to attend to something of higher priority?
If the 10.41 call was of sufficient urgency, why not despatch a second car to Luz immediately?
One obvious explanation is that the 10.41 call was simply not of sufficient urgency.
what do you think that the digs were about?
I think they were done for two reasons:
1) To confirm or otherwise suspicions put to them by the public or the PJ
2) To clear the way for their final theory; the one that they appear to be going thru at the moment
Remember OG also used criss cross flights .... using ground penetrating radar?
Seems that they are pretty convinced that Madeleine is not buried anywhere, so it is
all-guns-go on their final theory
OMO and it might not be correct, but is plausible
I rather got the impression that there only was one car on duty that night, covering a large area.How many GNR officers responded that night, and surely they did not all use their own cars?
How many GNR officers responded that night, and surely they did not all use their own cars?
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id258.htm
GNR officers' statements.
As Jassi said, one patrol car carrying 2 GNR officers & one supervisor at HQ were the only ones on duty that night. We can only speculate who would have dealt with any major disturbances in Lagos.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id258.htm
GNR officers' statements.
As Jassi said, one patrol car carrying 2 GNR officers & one supervisor at HQ were the only ones on duty that night. We can only speculate who would have dealt with any major disturbances in Lagos.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id258.htmLagos is PSP.
GNR officers' statements.
As Jassi said, one patrol car carrying 2 GNR officers & one supervisor at HQ were the only ones on duty that night. We can only speculate who would have dealt with any major disturbances in Lagos.
GNR Search and Rescue
PJ Murder and Kidnapping
Seems reasonable when someone goes missing to send the GNR in first.
Which raises the question as to why Kate -who knew right away he daughter was abducted by the,moving door, window/shutters open and whooshing curtains- didn't call a 999 number [or equivalent] to relay this urgent message. What was being said and looked like being believed at those inotial hours;was MBM has got out of the apartment and wandered off. That story soon changed.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id258.htm
GNR officers' statements.
As Jassi said, one patrol car carrying 2 GNR officers & one supervisor at HQ were the only ones on duty that night. We can only speculate who would have dealt with any major disturbances in Lagos.
I think it was the perfect storm.3rd May 2007 was the 96th anniversary of the GNR. It was celebrated with a parade in Lisbon, in front of the then prime minister, José Socrates.
I've lost the cite given by you some time ago, of Madeleine's disappearance coinciding with a huge police celebration the previous day complete with police dogs et al in conjunction with what police who were on duty that night being diverted to check out an alarm going off elsewhere.
Maybe the diversion if there was one, was to cover for something else entirely and unrelated to Madeleine's disappearance, on the other hand, did anyone check out the coincidence?
When Joana Cipriano disappeared a fair was being held in her home village close to Luz.
Snip
Ophelia Zeferino helped, incidentally, the family trying to find the child, the night she disappeared, walking the neighbourhood, and even looking to find her among the people who were at the fair that was in the village.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3031.msg109624#msg109624
3rd May 2007 was the 96th anniversary of the GNR. It was celebrated with a parade in Lisbon, in front of the then prime minister, José Socrates.
It was also the first time that the GNR celebrated this event in Albufeira. A dog team from Portimão took part in the event.
Lagos is PSP.
Fair enough - but if 2 GNR patrolmen are covering all the rural areas around Lagos, how many would be on duty to cover any disturbances in the town?I have no idea how many PSP officers were on duty to cover Lagos that night.
I have no idea how many PSP officers were on duty to cover Lagos that night.
No GNR were on duty to cover Lagos, because it is covered by the PSP, not the GNR.
So if someone goes missing in Lagos town, the GNR stationed there (according to the phone directory) wouldn't be the ones deployed first?No, its PSP territory. Large towns and cities are PSP then PJ.
Which raises the question as to why Kate -who knew right away he daughter was abducted by the,moving door, window/shutters open and whooshing curtains- didn't call a 999 number [or equivalent] to relay this urgent message. What was being said and looked like being believed at those inotial hours;was MBM has got out of the apartment and wandered off. That story soon changed.
No, its PSP territory. Large towns and cities are PSP then PJ.
The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.So Luz with the GNR, Lagos with the PSP.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm
The failure of the digs to present any thing new during his tenure would suggest not very well.
So Luz with the GNR, Lagos with the PSP.
I wonder what territory the Lagos GNR are supposed to cover? Surely it cannot extend to Sagres or Portimão?
How was that his fault?IMO because.