UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 12:50:07 AM

Title: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 12:50:07 AM
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?

1149

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?
Are you suggesting that the media should be denied the opportunity to report on anything they believe is in the public interest lest it leads to the suicide of the subject of its news story?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 08:07:49 AM
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 08:12:14 AM
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.


A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 20, 2018, 08:12:59 AM
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.

exactly the dossier  creators and  sky  news    uk  are  to blame for brenda killing herself imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 08:22:43 AM

A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.

Who decides whether a crime has been or is about to be committed? The police. The police were made aware and there the 'concerned citizen's' involvement ends.

 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 08:28:07 AM
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?


Brenda Leyland got vilified and didn't break any laws,Cliff Richard's on the other hand broke no laws but won compensation, go figure.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 08:36:19 AM

Brenda Leyland got vilified and didn't break any laws,Cliff Richard's on the other hand broke no laws but won compensation, go figure.

Did her family take any action against Sky?
Not necessarily legal action but did they express any grievance with Sky.
If I felt a family member had committed suicide because of the behaviour of a television channel, I would certainly make my opinion known.
But perhaps the family knew her better than any of us and perhaps because she had attempted suicide before, they were aware perhaps that it was much more complex than any of us would know.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 08:38:23 AM
Who decides whether a crime has been or is about to be committed? The police. The police were made aware and there the 'concerned citizen's' involvement ends.

Does behaviour have to be criminal before it is deemed wrong?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 08:39:06 AM
Did her family take any action against Sky?
Not necessarily legal action but did they express any grievance with Sky.
If I felt a family member had committed suicide because of the behaviour of a television channel, I would certainly make my opinion known.
But perhaps the family knew her better than any of us and perhaps because she had attempted suicide before, they were aware perhaps that it was much more complex than any of us would know.


Doesn't escape the fact there was a trial my media in both cases,yet one goes on to win compensation,the other sadly loses her life.Neither of them broke any laws.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 08:43:44 AM

A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.

 Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 20, 2018, 08:45:42 AM
Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!

exactly  its been a taboo subject for  supporters but   i have no doubt if they had not taken it on themselves to act on the mcanns behalf   brenda would be alive right  now
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 09:10:17 AM
exactly  its been a taboo subject for  supporters but   i have no doubt if they had not taken it on themselves to act on the mcanns behalf   brenda would be alive right  now

 Yes, the McCanns supposedly were unaware of twitter and didn't use it. So how could they say any of it impacted on them?

  The people compiling the dossier couldn't get Brenda banned from twitter because she wasn't breaking their rules and the police weren't particularly interested because she made no threats or stalking ( as defined in law) occurred.
 
They used the press before the police had concluded anything, intimidating someone as their preferred method of stifling free speech.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 09:11:43 AM
Does behaviour have to be criminal before it is deemed wrong?

Deemed wrong by some, but who decides that their opinion is right? Them?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 09:14:20 AM
Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!

Very well put.  8@??)(
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:15:46 AM

Brenda Leyland got vilified and didn't break any laws,Cliff Richard's on the other hand broke no laws but won compensation, go figure.
Cliff Richard has been vilified for years on the internet, and probably still is being to this day, "Brenda Leyland - internet troll" was a storm in a teacup and had she not chosen to end her life, her brush with infamy would have been yesterday's fish and chip paper by the weekend.  As it is, I doubt her name or her story now means anything whatsoever to 99.9% of the country's population. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 09:15:50 AM
Yes, the McCanns supposedly were unaware of twitter and didn't use it. So how could they say any of it impacted on them?

  The people compiling the dossier couldn't get Brenda banned from twitter because she wasn't breaking their rules and the police weren't particularly interested because she made no threats or stalking ( as defined in law) occurred.
 
They used the press before the police had concluded anything, intimidating someone as their preferred method of stifling free speech.

So if you read continuing threatening and nasty posts against a named person who were themselves unaware of these threats, you would deem these posts as unimportant just because the person being threatened was unaware of the threats.
Just because the rules of posting on social media are so futile does not make it acceptable to post  hate!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:16:46 AM
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.
What do you think of the Hacked Off campaign?  Rhetorical question, no need to answer. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:18:10 AM
Who decides whether a crime has been or is about to be committed? The police. The police were made aware and there the 'concerned citizen's' involvement ends.
Your complete and utter trust in the police to decide when to pursue a criminal prosecution is very surprising to me. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 09:19:18 AM
Deemed wrong by some, but who decides that their opinion is right? Them?

Most right minding folk would deem it wrong to post threatening and abusive posts to a family of a missing child, even if the recipients of such posts are unaware of them.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:20:42 AM
Most right minding folk would deem it wrong to post threatening and abusive posts to a family of a missing child, even if the recipients of such posts are unaware of them.

Brenda leyland commited no crime so what threating and abusive post's are you refering to?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:23:59 AM
Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!
The people who compiled the dossier did just that - compile a dossier.  There's no law against it.  There is no law against sending it to the media, it's up to the media if they act on it.  No one held a gun to anyone's head as far as I'm aware, nor was Brenda specifically targeted but was one of dozens of anonymous tweeters, Brunt tracked down her identity himself.  What exactly are you suggesting - that concerned members of the public, who are ignored by the police, should just put up with things, as the police have the final word on all matters?  Tell that to the victims of the Hillsborough disaster, to child sex grooming gangs, and thousands of other injustices that have been highlighted by the media, forcing the police to finally get their arses in gear and act. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 09:25:09 AM
Brenda leyland commited no crime so what threating and abusive post's are you refering to?

That's the problem.
It would seem posting nasty and abusive posts is not a crime.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 09:25:22 AM
So if you read continuing threatening and nasty posts against a named person who were themselves unaware of these threats, you would deem these posts as unimportant just because the person being threatened was unaware of the threats.
Just because the rules of posting on social media are so futile does not make it acceptable to post  hate!

Nasty is a subjective term.    'threat' is not so subjective. Where did Brenda threaten anyone, she didn't!

 The problem with the 'troll dossier' is people taking it upon themselves to be moral police and trying to silence other people based on their opinions.  no-one has a right to do that IMO, there are laws there for if someone makes threats towards you, having 'nasty' opinions is not against the law, so people shouldn't be contacting the police and media about it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
Your complete and utter trust in the police to decide when to pursue a criminal prosecution is very surprising to me.

I never said I trusted them, I said it's their job not the public's or the media's.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:29:57 AM
Cliff Richard has been vilified for years on the internet, and probably still is being to this day, "Brenda Leyland - internet troll" was a storm in a teacup and had she not chosen to end her life, her brush with infamy would have been yesterday's fish and chip paper by the weekend.  As it is, I doubt her name or her story now means anything whatsoever to 99.9% of the country's population.

Shouldn't two innocent parties receive the same amount of privacy?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 09:31:38 AM
Nasty is a subjective term.    'threat' is not so subjective. Where did Brenda threaten anyone, she didn't!

 The problem with the 'troll dossier' is people taking it upon themselves to be moral police and trying to silence other people based on their opinions.  no-one has a right to do that IMO, there are laws there for if someone makes threats towards you, having 'nasty' opinions is not against the law, so people shouldn't be contacting the police and media about it.

If you don't describe the abuse and threats made on social media to the McCanns as nasty, then we have different standards of acceptable behaviour.
There are now two threads about this lady and for today I am finished posting on either.
In modern terminology, we are in the process of a a major refurbishment and I will be very busy.j
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 09:34:25 AM
The people who compiled the dossier did just that - compile a dossier.  There's no law against it.  There is no law against sending it to the media, it's up to the media if they act on it.  No one held a gun to anyone's head as far as I'm aware, nor was Brenda specifically targeted but was one of dozens of anonymous tweeters, Brunt tracked down her identity himself.  What exactly are you suggesting - that concerned members of the public, who are ignored by the police, should just put up with things, as the police have the final word on all matters?  Tell that to the victims of the Hillsborough disaster, to child sex grooming gangs, and thousands of other injustices that have been highlighted by the media, forcing the police to finally get their arses in gear and act.

 Yes Brenda was unfairly targeted. It was her doorstep that Sky turned up on. Was she someone with resources or a press team of her own to handle such intrusion?  If we want to get into moral debates then there's one for you.  Why did sky not want to doorstep some male 'trolls' or was an older single woman on her own an easier target?

   Brenda's name was unfairly linked with other people's messages in the Daily Mail giving the impression that she was responsible for most of what was said. She was set up as a scapegoat.

  The concerned members of the public in this case chose not to wait for the police to investigate, this is not the same as Hillsborough where police refused to investigate!  Also Brenda committed no crime by expressing her opinions, so how was the situation an 'injustice'?  How you can compare it to Hillsborough, I don't know.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 09:35:46 AM
If you don't describe the abuse and threats made on social media to the McCanns as nasty, then we have different standards of acceptable behaviour.
There are now two threads about this lady and for today I am finished posting on either.
In modern terminology, we are in the process of a a major refurbishment and I will be very busy.j

You originally said Brenda made threats. She didn't.  ....and you miss the point again, being nasty is not a crime and never should be. The whole point of freedom of speech is that we defend people's opinions even if we don't agree with them.
 
   
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 09:36:06 AM
exactly the dossier  creators and  sky  news    uk  are  to blame for brenda killing herself imo

You are making a very serious accusation there carly.    No one knows what drove BL to kill herself,  she had attempted it once before.   It could have been a row with one of her sons for example.   Martin Brunt stated she was in a good frame of mind when he last spoke to her. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:39:03 AM
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?

At 28 seconds Brunt tells Leyland she had been reported to the police and Scotland yard were investigating.So she didn't or wasn't receiving any right it would seem.

 https://youtu.be/2pW0_bh4bz4?t=30s
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:40:54 AM
I never said I trusted them, I said it's their job not the public's or the media's.
So if the police refuse to investigate serious allegations of misconduct within their own ranks for example, then tough shit, live with it, don't take the evidence to the media.  Okie dokes.  Sounds a bit police state-ish to me.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:42:09 AM
So if the police refuse to investigate serious allegations of misconduct within their own ranks for example, then tough shit, live with it, don't take the evidence to the media.  Okie dokes.  Sounds a bit police state-ish to me.

It is at times when the police investigate themselves.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:42:54 AM
Shouldn't two innocent parties receive the same amount of privacy?
Well you'll be pleased to learn that Cliff's Law means that anyone simply suspected of any crime by the police will be protected from any media coverage in future. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:44:30 AM
Well you'll be pleased to learn that Cliff's Law means that anyone simply suspected of any crime by the police will be protected from any media coverage in future.

10/15 yrs ago it wouldn't have been known before the internet age anyway.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 09:45:33 AM
Yes Brenda was unfairly targeted. It was her doorstep that Sky turned up on. Was she someone with resources or a press team of her own to handle such intrusion?  If we want to get into moral debates then there's one for you.  Why did sky not want to doorstep some male 'trolls' or was an older single woman on her own an easier target?

   Brenda's name was unfairly linked with other people's messages in the Daily Mail giving the impression that she was responsible for most of what was said. She was set up as a scapegoat.

  The concerned members of the public in this case chose not to wait for the police to investigate, this is not the same as Hillsborough where police refused to investigate!  Also Brenda committed no crime by expressing her opinions, so how was the situation an 'injustice'?  How you can compare it to Hillsborough, I don't know.

I believe BL was in conversation with Martin Brunt on twitter.    He was not to know she was mentally delicate,  on the contrary she sounded by her tweets to be a very confident woman.   Her tweets were among those others that were taken from the internet.   Martin Brunt no doubt knew BL and where she lived.   Its a journalists job to confront people,  he was doing his job.   It is very unfortunate that he chose BL to confront as unknown to him she was mentally ill.   Martin Brunt said he was devastated by her death.   BL didn't have to take Martin Brunt into her home,  she didn't have to converse with him at all.   When asked why she was sending her tweets she replied 'I have a right to' or similar words,  she could have just left it at that.   BL made it quite clear in the area where she lived her views on the McCann's.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 09:49:19 AM
Yes Brenda was unfairly targeted. It was her doorstep that Sky turned up on. Was she someone with resources or a press team of her own to handle such intrusion?  If we want to get into moral debates then there's one for you.  Why did sky not want to doorstep some male 'trolls' or was an older single woman on her own an easier target?

   Brenda's name was unfairly linked with other people's messages in the Daily Mail giving the impression that she was responsible for most of what was said. She was set up as a scapegoat.

  The concerned members of the public in this case chose not to wait for the police to investigate, this is not the same as Hillsborough where police refused to investigate!  Also Brenda committed no crime by expressing her opinions, so how was the situation an 'injustice'?  How you can compare it to Hillsborough, I don't know.
I am talking about the principle of alerting the media to perceived injustices or criminal behaviour.   You either believe in the right of any individual to go to the media with their concerns when the police seem disinterested, and in the right of the media to decide whether or not what has been brought to them is worthy of reporting, or you don't - whether it's a big tragic case like Hillsborough in which police failings seemed to be brushed under the carper by a police force closing ranks and protecting its own,  or the sustained and lengthy campaign of a bunch of online anonymous commentators who use social media to intimidate, mock, deride, insinuate, threaten, accuse and spread lies about the family of a missing child and anyone associated with them, including their supporters.  Phew!  Long sentence.  Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:50:48 AM
Well you'll be pleased to learn that Cliff's Law means that anyone simply suspected of any crime by the police will be protected from any media coverage in future.

In the Claudia Lawrence Murder case there have been around 5 men arrested at various times later released with out charge,as far as I can see only one man was named and that was possibly it seems locally.So not naming anyone doesn't need no cliff's law.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 09:51:23 AM
If you don't describe the abuse and threats made on social media to the McCanns as nasty, then we have different standards of acceptable behaviour.
There are now two threads about this lady and for today I am finished posting on either.
In modern terminology, we are in the process of a a major refurbishment and I will be very busy.j

It's obvious that people have different opinions on what is 'nasty'. Some think its nasty to criticise the McCann's childcare arrangements. I think it's not. Some think it's OK to make fun of policemen in another country. I think it's nasty. Standards of acceptable behaviour are based on opinion. Opinion can't be used as a benchmark. Law is the universal benchmark.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 09:56:53 AM
I believe BL was in conversation with Martin Brunt on twitter.    He was not to know she was mentally delicate,  on the contrary she sounded by her tweets to be a very confident woman.   Her tweets were among those others that were taken from the internet.   Martin Brunt no doubt knew BL and where she lived.   Its a journalists job to confront people,  he was doing his job.   It is very unfortunate that he chose BL to confront as unknown to him she was mentally ill.   Martin Brunt said he was devastated by her death.   BL didn't have to take Martin Brunt into her home,  she didn't have to converse with him at all.   When asked why she was sending her tweets she replied 'I have a right to' or similar words,  she could have just left it at that.   BL made it quite clear in the area where she lived her views on the McCann's.

   So why not phone her up first?  Don't you think a well known TV journalist turning up with a camera crew at an ordinary member of the publics house might be intimidating?  She was not a TV personality or head of some large organisation or politician with a press office that was used to dealing with the press.

Why not give her the chance to engage some representation or at least advice from family members before plastering her all over the nations media?  Why did Brunt not try and arrange a meeting with and a few of these 'trolls'? You say he didn't know she was ill, so then maybe he should have done better research and not put her in the such a David and Goliath scenario up against the entire press. It was a very bad judgement on his part.

   
 

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 09:59:39 AM
It's obvious that people have different opinions on what is 'nasty'. Some think its nasty to criticise the McCann's childcare arrangements. I think it's not. Some think it's OK to make fun of policemen in another country. I think it's nasty. Standards of acceptable behaviour are based on opinion. Opinion can't be used as a benchmark. Law is the universal benchmark.

In the case of Brenda no laws were broken so in pursuit of a story sky news were certainly lacking in what they would describe as "in the public interest".
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 10:01:20 AM
   So why not phone her up first?  Don't you think a well known TV journalist turning up with a camera crew at an ordinary member of the publics house might be intimidating?  She was not a TV personality or head of some large organisation or politician with a press office that was used to dealing with the press.

Why not give her the chance to engage some representation or at least advice from family members before plastering her all over the nations media?  Why did Brunt not try and arrange a meeting with and a few of these 'trolls'? You say he didn't know she was ill, so then maybe he should have done better research and not put her in the such a David and Goliath scenario up against the entire press. It was a very bad judgement on his part.

   
 
Do you think the media considered the possible fragile mental state of Kate McCann before going to print with their outrageous lies?  Where's your anger at those news stories?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 10:03:00 AM
Do you think the media considered the possible fragile mental state of Kate McCann before going to print with their outrageous lies?  Where's your anger at those news stories?

Start a new thread?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:04:51 AM
I am talking about the principle of alerting the media to perceived injustices or criminal behaviour.   You either believe in the right of any individual to go to the media with their concerns when the police seem disinterested, and in the right of the media to decide whether or not what has been brought to them is worthy of reporting, or you don't - whether it's a big tragic case like Hillsborough in which police failings seemed to be brushed under the carper by a police force closing ranks and protecting its own,  or the sustained and lengthy campaign of a bunch of online anonymous commentators who use social media to intimidate, mock, deride, insinuate, threaten, accuse and spread lies about the family of a missing child and anyone associated with them, including their supporters. Phew!  Long sentence.  Sorry about that.


Can you not see that all those things you describe come under the banner of freedom of speech, except 'threaten' - but Brenda Leyland did not threaten anyone and the police did not find evidence of any threats in the dossier.
 
  This is a completely different matter than Hillsborough where people died and family wanted it investigating properly. You seem to be saying that what Brenda is on a par with the Hillsborough cover up and refer to it as a 'case'.
  It was not a case, it was someone's opinions, no crime was committed.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
Do you think the media considered the possible fragile mental state of Kate McCann before going to print with their outrageous lies?  Where's your anger at those news stories?

What lies exactly?  Is criticism lies?  As was determined in the Supreme Court ruling in 2017, the McCanns, through Kate's book and voluntarily engagements with the press on various stories and interviews, were complicit in bringing criticism to themselves.

  This really for me is about balance. The McCanns, suspects in a high profile crime, had a P.R. spokesman to engage and field the media, help from politicians etc. Opportunity to engage lawyers backed by a large 'fund'.   What did Brenda Leyland have at hand when Brunt decided to make an example of her?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 10:15:15 AM

Can you not see that all those things you describe come under the banner of freedom of speech, except 'threaten' - but Brenda Leyland did not threaten anyone and the police did not find evidence of any threats in the dossier.
 
  This is a completely different matter than Hillsborough where people died and family wanted it investigating properly. You seem to be saying that what Brenda is on a par with the Hillsborough cover up and refer to it as a 'case'.
  It was not a case, it was someone's opinions, no crime was committed.
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:16:36 AM
Quote
In a letter to the campaigners, Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."

https://news.sky.com/story/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action-10361261 (https://news.sky.com/story/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action-10361261)
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 10:21:06 AM
28 seconds in

"They are considering a whole file".

[youtube]http://youtu.be/2pW0_bh4bz4[/youtube]
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:22:38 AM
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?

No offence but I think it's a really poor choice to use Hillsborough to illustrate this principle.

   Hillsborough was a tragedy where many people died and the inquest was a whitewash, the 'Troll Dossier' was a case of members of the public trying to police the free speech of other members of the public who were giving opinions on other members of the public. No comparison IMO.

 The person/s who compiled the dossier should be done for wasting police time imo!

   
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 10:25:18 AM
Why shouldn't have B Leyland expected the same as Sir C?

Quote
Mr Justice Mann said a suspect in a police investigation "has a reasonable expectation of privacy" and while Sir Cliff being investigated "might be of interest to the gossip-monger", there was not a "genuine public interest" case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44871799
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 10:33:42 AM
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?

Whatever actions people take consequences follow. The McCanns choose to leave their children home alone and then claimed a child was abducted. If the child was abducted it's reasonable to argue that being left alone contributed to her abduction.

The dossier compilers handed their dossier to Sky News. The result was that Sky's actions contributed to the loss of a life. Those actions were triggered by being handed the dossier. Therefore it's reasonable to argue that handing over the dossier contributed to that loss of life.



Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 10:36:48 AM
What lies exactly?  Is criticism lies?  As was determined in the Supreme Court ruling in 2017, the McCanns, through Kate's book and voluntarily engagements with the press on various stories and interviews, were complicit in bringing criticism to themselves.

  This really for me is about balance. The McCanns, suspects in a high profile crime, had a P.R. spokesman to engage and field the media, help from politicians etc. Opportunity to engage lawyers backed by a large 'fund'.   What did Brenda Leyland have at hand when Brunt decided to make an example of her?
Oh please.  If you're going to pretend the media didn't print outright lies about the McCanns  is there really any point in even continuing this discussion with you?

Once again your beef appears to be with the media (not the dossier compilers), who you seem to believe should treat everyone with kid gloves unless their targets have a high powered lawyer, political support, a bucket of cash and PR firm on hand.  This would no doubt be welcomed by those cowboys and shysters who get doorstepped by programmes like Watchdog, certainly.

 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 10:41:52 AM
   So why not phone her up first?  Don't you think a well known TV journalist turning up with a camera crew at an ordinary member of the publics house might be intimidating?  She was not a TV personality or head of some large organisation or politician with a press office that was used to dealing with the press.

Why not give her the chance to engage some representation or at least advice from family members before plastering her all over the nations media?  Why did Brunt not try and arrange a meeting with and a few of these 'trolls'? You say he didn't know she was ill, so then maybe he should have done better research and not put her in the such a David and Goliath scenario up against the entire press. It was a very bad judgement on his part.

   
 


That is you will have to take up with Sky news.    Sky news give a statement saying that Martin Brunt was just doing his job,  so it seems that is how they work.

How would Martin Brunt know that BL was ill?  What 'research' could he have done beforehand?

On the other hand all those tweeters tweeting abusive threats to the McCann's,  would know that he McCann's were vunerable,  their child was missing how do you think they were feeling?    Some of them were stalking the McCann's saying how they saw them and where they went,  that is so creepy.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:44:01 AM
Oh please.  If you're going to pretend the media didn't print outright lies about the McCanns  is there really any point in even continuing this discussion with you?

Once again your beef appears to be with the media (not the dossier compilers), who you seem to believe should treat everyone with kid gloves unless their targets have a high powered lawyer, political support, a bucket of cash and PR firm on hand.  This would no doubt be welcomed by those cowboys and shysters who get doorstepped by programmes like Watchdog, certainly.

  I'm not pretending anything. The McCanns engaged with the media and have pretty much been able to repeat their version of events unhindered. The media should be balanced, if McCanns can engage the media with their version of events, the media should be able to write critical pieces. Sorting out what percentage were downright lies would be another topic and a bit pointless. I said nothing about kid gloves, I'm talking about fairness and balance.

 I said up thread, I think the dossier compilers should be charged for wasting police time because they were acting as moral police on the subject of free speech.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 10:47:25 AM
No offence but I think it's a really poor choice to use Hillsborough to illustrate this principle.

   Hillsborough was a tragedy where many people died and the inquest was a whitewash, the 'Troll Dossier' was a case of members of the public trying to police the free speech of other members of the public who were giving opinions on other members of the public. No comparison IMO.

 The person/s who compiled the dossier should be done for wasting police time imo!

 
That's a good idea.  Prosecute anyone who brings their concerns to the police when the concerns don't result in a criminal investigation.  That's really going to encourage people to come forward to the police with vital information about potentially criminal activities.
And please stop wilfully misunderstanding my posts - I was talking about a principle, which can be applied to ALL cases, big and small of members of the general public taking concerns to the media in the absence of police interest.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 10:49:00 AM
  I'm not pretending anything. The McCanns engaged with the media and have pretty much been able to repeat their version of events unhindered. The media should be balanced, if McCanns can engage the media with their version of events, the media should be able to write critical pieces. Sorting out what percentage were downright lies would be another topic and a bit pointless. I said nothing about kid gloves, I'm talking about fairness and balance.

 I said up thread, I think the dossier compilers should be charged for wasting police time because they were acting as moral police on the subject of free speech.
I think that's utterly ridiculous for the reason I have given above. 

Also, if the McCanns can be criticised by the media, why can't an unmasked internet troll?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:49:18 AM

That is you will have to take up with Sky news.    Sky news give a statement saying that Martin Brunt was just doing his job,  so it seems that is how they work.

How would Martin Brunt know that BL was ill?  What 'research' could he have done beforehand?

On the other hand all those tweeters tweeting abusive threats to the McCann's,  would know that he McCann's were vunerable,  their child was missing how do you think they were feeling?    Some of them were stalking the McCann's saying how they saw them and where they went,  that is so creepy.

How many members of the public have been doorstepped for tweeting by Sky News? I don't think it's typical of how Sky news work.

re. the dossier, the police found no crimes to prosecute, doesn't really matter if it seemed 'creepy' does it?  If someone specifically threatens you, that is a crime which the police will prosecute. 

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 10:58:56 AM
That's a good idea.  Prosecute anyone who brings their concerns to the police when the concerns don't result in a criminal investigation.  That's really going to encourage people to come forward to the police with vital information about potentially criminal activities.
And please stop wilfully misunderstanding my posts - I was talking about a principle, which can be applied to ALL cases, big and small of members of the general public taking concerns to the media in the absence of police interest.

I'm not wilfully misunderstanding, members of the public being concerned about what other individuals said say online is really not in the same league as using the press to put pressure on the government for inquiries into tragic events. One is  'member of the public vs another member of the public'. One is - 'member of the public vs. large public body'. So I don't see how one principal covers them. It's your insistence only, that the two scenarios should be protected by some kind of principal.

 And the prosecution idea is just my opinion with regards to people who get in a flap over 'nasty' things said on the internet. It should never be a police matter unless specific threats are made.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 20, 2018, 11:01:53 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/safety/resources/aztopics/door-stepping.html

It didn't say doorstepping was illegal.  Do the Sky management have a policy as does the BBC. 
Then it is a decision of the editor before it is sent to air. 

Would there be the same uproar if it hadn't been aired?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2018, 11:05:26 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/safety/resources/aztopics/door-stepping.html

It didn't say doorstepping was illegal.  Do the Sky management have a policy as does the BBC. 
Then it is a decision of the editor before it is sent to air. 

Would there be the same uproar if it hadn't been aired?



Seeing its the Brenda Leyland thread,then you must be referring to that,hindsight Rob and it can't be answered imo.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 11:09:41 AM
I'm not wilfully misunderstanding, members of the public being concerned about what other individuals said say online is really not in the same league as using the press to put pressure on the government for inquiries into tragic events. One is  'member of the public vs another member of the public'. One is - 'member of the public vs. large public body'. So I don't see how one principal covers them. It's your insistence only, that the two scenarios should be protected by some kind of principal.

 And the prosecution idea is just my opinion with regards to people who get in a flap over 'nasty' things said on the internet. It should never be a police matter unless specific threats are made.
You ARE wilfully misunderstanding IMO - the dossier was not about one member of the public against another member of the public.  It was a compilation of dozens (hundreds?) of tweets and other social media posts made by numerous different individuals brought to the attention to the police out of (presumably) concern for the safety of a high profile couple, incidentally whose home address has been widely circulated amongst the same online group. 

What you seem to be saying is that taking your concerns to the police should be a criminal matter if the police don't view your concerns seriously.  That is utterly absurd IMO. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:11:06 AM
Did her family take any action against Sky?
Not necessarily legal action but did they express any grievance with Sky.
If I felt a family member had committed suicide because of the behaviour of a television channel, I would certainly make my opinion known.
But perhaps the family knew her better than any of us and perhaps because she had attempted suicide before, they were aware perhaps that it was much more complex than any of us would know.

Or perhaps most individuals don’t necessarily feel it dignified to go running to the press every time they feel they have been slighted ? Perhaps they contacted Sky privately ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
Does behaviour have to be criminal before it is deemed wrong?

Isn’t that an objective opinion ? I think killing animals for their meat is wrong but it certainly isn’t criminal.

I wonder if we looked into someone supporters background we’d find the same mental health issues that beset BL? Do you think that even though they tweeted day in, day out about the calumny of Amaral’s behaviour that they’s be a danger to his wellbeing ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:20:29 AM
So if you read continuing threatening and nasty posts against a named person who were themselves unaware of these threats, you would deem these posts as unimportant just because the person being threatened was unaware of the threats.
Just because the rules of posting on social media are so futile does not make it acceptable to post  hate!

Did BL ever threaten the McCanns ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:22:14 AM
The people who compiled the dossier did just that - compile a dossier.  There's no law against it.  There is no law against sending it to the media, it's up to the media if they act on it.  No one held a gun to anyone's head as far as I'm aware, nor was Brenda specifically targeted but was one of dozens of anonymous tweeters, Brunt tracked down her identity himself.  What exactly are you suggesting - that concerned members of the public, who are ignored by the police, should just put up with things, as the police have the final word on all matters?  Tell that to the victims of the Hillsborough disaster, to child sex grooming gangs, and thousands of other injustices that have been highlighted by the media, forcing the police to finally get their arses in gear and act.

But that’s the point. The police had not finished their investigation.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 11:26:35 AM
But that’s the point. The police had not finished their investigation.
What were the timings then?  When was the dossier handed in?  When was it handed to Sky?  When did the police inform the dossier compilers that they won't taking any action? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:28:15 AM
I believe BL was in conversation with Martin Brunt on twitter.    He was not to know she was mentally delicate,  on the contrary she sounded by her tweets to be a very confident woman.   Her tweets were among those others that were taken from the internet.   Martin Brunt no doubt knew BL and where she lived.   Its a journalists job to confront people,  he was doing his job.   It is very unfortunate that he chose BL to confront as unknown to him she was mentally ill.   Martin Brunt said he was devastated by her death.   BL didn't have to take Martin Brunt into her home,  she didn't have to converse with him at all.   When asked why she was sending her tweets she replied 'I have a right to' or similar words,  she could have just left it at that.   BL made it quite clear in the area where she lived her views on the McCann's.

When did Brunt start conversing with BL ? Was it after the dossier had been handed to him ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 11:35:52 AM
How many members of the public have been doorstepped for tweeting by Sky News? I don't think it's typical of how Sky news work.

re. the dossier, the police found no crimes to prosecute, doesn't really matter if it seemed 'creepy' does it?  If someone specifically threatens you, that is a crime which the police will prosecute.

I have no idea how many members of the public have been door stepped for tweeting.    You don't understand do you,   these people were stalking the McCann's,  finding out where they went and what they did.   It only takes one person to decide to carry out a threat that had been tweeted about on line.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 11:36:25 AM
When did Brunt start conversing with BL ? Was it after the dossier had been handed to him ?

No before.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 11:40:08 AM
I have no idea how many members of the public have been door stepped for tweeting.    You don't understand do you,   these people were stalking the McCann's,  finding out where they went and what they did.   It only takes one person to decide to carry out a threat that had been tweeted about on line.
I think it was Richard Bacon who made a whole TV programme about confronting a specific troll who had relentlessly targeted him.  That was above and beyond doorstepping if I recall.  They had a meeting in which the troll was very contrite (I think, I may have made this last bit up, relying on memory).  I suppose Bacon would have been vilified for naming and shaming had the troll then gone on to kill himself. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:40:40 AM
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?

And if BL had been charged ? Don’t you think vilifying her on rolling news would have jeopardised any resulting court case ?

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 11:42:53 AM
Did BL ever threaten the McCanns ?

BL belonged in a group who threatened and stalked the McCann's,  they boasted there were thousands in their group.

BL was also one of the tweeters who drove a young girl from twitter,  they said she was one of the nannies.  BL tweeted 'I bet she's scared now we know her address'   she also tweeted that the young woman was a prostitute,  I won't say what other nasty accusations she made about her.   Did BL care that this girl was probably scared that some of them would turn up at her address?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:43:25 AM
Oh please.  If you're going to pretend the media didn't print outright lies about the McCanns  is there really any point in even continuing this discussion with you?

Once again your beef appears to be with the media (not the dossier compilers), who you seem to believe should treat everyone with kid gloves unless their targets have a high powered lawyer, political support, a bucket of cash and PR firm on hand.  This would no doubt be welcomed by those cowboys and shysters who get doorstepped by programmes like Watchdog, certainly.

Do you agree with Sonia Poulton’s doorstepping of Kate and if not, why not ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 20, 2018, 11:45:30 AM
But that’s the point. The police had not finished their investigation.
Did she leave a note saying why she did it?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 11:46:10 AM
And if BL had been charged ? Don’t you think vilifying her on rolling news would have jeopardised any resulting court case ?
How was she vilified exactly?  What nasty things did Martin Brunt say about her?  You could of course use the same argument about the media who vilified the McCanns, to the power of 100.  Which is worse - internet troll or child neglecter / body occulter?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 11:47:31 AM
Do you agree with Sonia Poulton’s doorstepping of Kate and if not, why not ?

Do you think Sonia Poulton was the first journalist to door step the McCann's?    The McCann's had journalists camping out the front of their house for months.   They also had the public shouting at them.


I believe Sonia Poulton is looking for recognition,  she jumped on the band wagon hopefully thinking it would make her name known.   Unfortunately no one wants to air her documentary as she won't cut BL from it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 11:48:23 AM
Do you agree with Sonia Poulton’s doorstepping of Kate and if not, why not ?
I don't agree with it, but it's not illegal and she is exercising her right as a journalist to do so.  I presume you think it was a heinous thing to do?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:48:39 AM
What were the timings then?  When was the dossier handed in?  When was it handed to Sky?  When did the police inform the dossier compilers that they won't taking any action?

I believe the public announcement from the police re: action being taken is further up the thread and was given some time after the Sky debacle.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:50:00 AM
No before.

How do you know ? Do you know when the dossier was handed to Sky ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:51:51 AM
I think it was Richard Bacon who made a whole TV programme about confronting a specific troll who had relentlessly targeted him.  That was above and beyond doorstepping if I recall.  They had a meeting in which the troll was very contrite (I think, I may have made this last bit up, relying on memory).  I suppose Bacon would have been vilified for naming and shaming had the troll then gone on to kill himself.

I think if he wanted some real action to be taken lawfully he should not have done it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:54:42 AM
BL belonged in a group who threatened and stalked the McCann's,  they boasted there were thousands in their group.

BL was also one of the tweeters who drove a young girl from twitter,  they said she was one of the nannies.  BL tweeted 'I bet she's scared now we know her address'   she also tweeted that the young woman was a prostitute,  I won't say what other nasty accusations she made about her.   Did BL care that this girl was probably scared that some of them would turn up at her address?

I seem to remember supporters tweeting that they knew BL personal details.

TBH it’s much of a muchness. They were all taking part in rather bizarre behaviour but afaia it was lawful.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:57:52 AM
How was she vilified exactly?  What nasty things did Martin Brunt say about her?  You could of course use the same argument about the media who vilified the McCanns, to the power of 100.  Which is worse - internet troll or child neglecter / body occulter?

Yes you could say that but BL didn’t invite the media into her life. The McCanns had a full retinue of legal support. It’s not comparable.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 12:01:01 PM
I don't agree with it, but it's not illegal and she is exercising her right as a journalist to do so.  I presume you think it was a heinous thing to do?

Yes I think it was absolutely wrong.

So if you don’t agree with Kate being doorstepped you must feel the same about BL. Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 12:46:52 PM

A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.

The correct procedure is to report the user to the social media platform involved and to the police if necessary.  Sky News and Brunt had no business doing what they did, it was a cowardly thing to do just to create a story.  It is very noticeable that they don't approach hard criminals in the street but soft targets like pensioners.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 12:52:32 PM
I have no idea how many members of the public have been door stepped for tweeting.    You don't understand do you,   these people were stalking the McCann's,  finding out where they went and what they did.   It only takes one person to decide to carry out a threat that had been tweeted about on line.

You don't seem to understand - The thread is about Brenda Leyland. Not the others that might have stalked the McCanns.

   Funnily enough Brunt went after Brenda rather than these 'others' that we are told issued death threats and engaged in stalking behaviour worse than hers. Then the police found there were no threats or stalking to prosecute. Why do you think that was? probably because there were no credible threats.
   Wishing someone would suffer or saying you hate someone is not the same as credible threats, after all Kate McCann has done the same on a public platform.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 20, 2018, 12:53:35 PM
No offence but I think it's a really poor choice to use Hillsborough to illustrate this principle.

   Hillsborough was a tragedy where many people died and the inquest was a whitewash, the 'Troll Dossier' was a case of members of the public trying to police the free speech of other members of the public who were giving opinions on other members of the public. No comparison IMO.

 The person/s who compiled the dossier should be done for wasting police time imo!

 

Good post.
I concur.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 01:01:03 PM
That's the problem.
It would seem posting nasty and abusive posts is not a crime.

Neither is publishing a book referring to a policeman as a f....ing tosser three times. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2018, 01:06:52 PM
You ARE wilfully misunderstanding IMO - the dossier was not about one member of the public against another member of the public.  It was a compilation of dozens (hundreds?) of tweets and other social media posts made by numerous different individuals brought to the attention to the police out of (presumably) concern for the safety of a high profile couple, incidentally whose home address has been widely circulated amongst the same online group. 

What you seem to be saying is that taking your concerns to the police should be a criminal matter if the police don't view your concerns seriously.  That is utterly absurd IMO.

If the McCanns did not read reports about them why do others take offence on their behalf?   Brenda did wat she did aired her views, perhaps not to supporters liking, but the suppoters do not have the moral high ground on disgraceful behaviour. SOME WOULD ARGUE  the Parents of MBM, acted disgracefully in the treatment of their daughter- leaving her alone after she complained to them, set up a company, slagged of police, community  and the countries Judiciary. and the supporters followed like sheep.  Brendas life and death had no impact on them whatsoever.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 01:08:30 PM
The correct procedure is to report the user to the social media platform involved and to the police if necessary.  Sky News and Brunt had no business doing what they did, it was a cowardly thing to do just to create a story.  It is very noticeable that they don't approach hard criminals in the street but soft targets like pensioners.


At the risk of fuelling one sceptics erroneous notion that I have knowledge of the dossier contents, I will add my thoughts..
Perhaps individual threats etc had been reported to the social media platforms.
Perhaps individual threats etc had been reported to the police.

The threats continue even to this day, and perhaps the people who compiled the dossier felt that if many of these posts were detailed and given to the police, some form of caution would be given.
As previously stated, I see no wrong in presenting evidence of concern to the media.
And as previously stated  the presentation of this evidence is outwith the control of those who were involved in the compilation of the dossier.

Can anyone answer my question?
I genuinely don't know that if a member of the public is stopped by a TV crew and asked questions which cause unease, can that person ask or demand that the footage be not shown.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
You ARE wilfully misunderstanding IMO - the dossier was not about one member of the public against another member of the public.  It was a compilation of dozens (hundreds?) of tweets and other social media posts made by numerous different individuals brought to the attention to the police out of (presumably) concern for the safety of a high profile couple, incidentally whose home address has been widely circulated amongst the same online group. 

What you seem to be saying is that taking your concerns to the police should be a criminal matter if the police don't view your concerns seriously.  That is utterly absurd IMO.

   The dossier was initiated by members of the public against other members of the public. We were given the impression that there were dangerous threats in there and that all the people mentioned were rabid '[ censored word ]' out for blood and issuing threats. Who told us all this about the dossier? - the people that hawked it to the press. It doesn't matter how many people were in it, they weren't doing anything unlawful. If anything only a handful were doing anything remotely questionable in legal terms. This is in no way comparable to, or could be the same in principle as members of the public trying to get justice from a large public body. With that I shall leave this particular discussion if you don't mind.

Vertigo -  the prosecuted thing was really an aside, I suppose I should have put some kind of international symbol for 'flippant' next to it but I couldn't find one ?{)(**  Having said that I do believe people running to the police over nasty stuff said on the internet is wasting police time.  Credible threats and actual harassment are different than 'nasty' opinions and are already defined in law.  There's no need to go to the media before the police have looked at it either.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 01:21:19 PM
You don't seem to understand - The thread is about Brenda Leyland. Not the others that might have stalked the McCanns.

   Funnily enough Brunt went after Brenda rather than these 'others' that we are told issued death threats and engaged in stalking behaviour worse than hers. Then the police found there were no threats or stalking to prosecute. Why do you think that was? probably because there were no credible threats.
   Wishing someone would suffer or saying you hate someone is not the same as credible threats, after all Kate McCann has done the same on a public platform.

I believe Brunt went after Brenda because he had been conversing with her on twitter,  she give her real name away.    Brenda's tweets were among those others who had been stalking and threatening the McCann's.


Credible threats were made,   they threatened to kidnap the twins,  to kidnap the McCann's and beat the truth out of them among other threats.   


IMO the police didn't procecute because BL committed suicide.    Suddenly they deleted their tweets and stopped the threats.   Now though things are starting to go back to how it was.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 01:22:53 PM

At the risk of fuelling one sceptics erroneous notion that I have knowledge of the dossier contents, I will add my thoughts..
Perhaps individual threats etc had been reported to the social media platforms.
Perhaps individual threats etc had been reported to the police.

The threats continue even to this day, and perhaps the people who compiled the dossier felt that if many of these posts were detailed and given to the police, some form of caution would be given.
As previously stated, I see no wrong in presenting evidence of concern to the media.
And as previously stated  the presentation of this evidence is outwith the control of those who were involved in the compilation of the dossier.

Can anyone answer my question?
I genuinely don't know that if a member of the public is stopped by a TV crew and asked questions which cause unease, can that person ask or demand that the footage be not shown.

 You can't object to footage being broadcast when it's live can you?

As for the 'threats'.  Brenda made no threats. No credible threats were made or the police would have taken action, they didn't. Saying you want someone to 'burn' or joking about it is not a prosecutable offence...unless people here think every time a driver shouts at another driver in his car or someone says 'I'll kill' my boss, kid, friend whatever they should be arrested.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2018, 01:26:21 PM
Neither is publishing a book referring to a policeman as a f....ing tosser three times.


And instrumental in sending a media pack to hound RM and his elderly mother, the staff of MW and neighbours for 'gossip' they were also instrumental in the vilifying the police in particular Sr Amaral who also took a media beating- the media were directed away and then only had to print .nice things with nice pictures and nice fluffy stories about how wonderful their family life was...

Kate did say she wanted Amaral to suffer.... nice one Kate!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 01:33:27 PM
What lies exactly?  Is criticism lies?  As was determined in the Supreme Court ruling in 2017, the McCanns, through Kate's book and voluntarily engagements with the press on various stories and interviews, were complicit in bringing criticism to themselves.

  This really for me is about balance. The McCanns, suspects in a high profile crime, had a P.R. spokesman to engage and field the media, help from politicians etc. Opportunity to engage lawyers backed by a large 'fund'.   What did Brenda Leyland have at hand when Brunt decided to make an example of her?

Exactly, it was cowardly and that's why Brunt disappeared for so long afterwards. News organisations should not be going after vulnerable people and that is why Jonathan Levy and Martin Brunt were so very out of order in what they did. This was trial by media pure and simple which on this occasion went up in flames in their faces when a woman died.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 01:35:06 PM
I believe Brunt went after Brenda because he had been conversing with her on twitter,  she give her real name away.    Brenda's tweets were among those others who had been stalking and threatening the McCann's.


Credible threats were made,   they threatened to kidnap the twins,  to kidnap the McCann's and beat the truth out of them among other threats.   


IMO the police didn't procecute because BL committed suicide.    Suddenly they deleted their tweets and stopped the threats.   Now though things are starting to go back to how it was.

It should be made clear it's your opinion they were credible.  The police issued a statement saying they didn't find anything unlawful.  The 'threat' about the twins was relayed from McCann's friend of the family in the libel court. It was therefore his interpretation of the forum conversation that the threats were credible.

The police go by the law which says that threats must be credible and have some degree of being likely to be carried out, people letting off steam and making bad taste jokes is not considered unlawful.

   
Quote
Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 01:39:32 PM
I believe Brunt went after Brenda because he had been conversing with her on twitter,  she give her real name away.    Brenda's tweets were among those others who had been stalking and threatening the McCann's.


Credible threats were made,   they threatened to kidnap the twins,  to kidnap the McCann's and beat the truth out of them among other threats.   


IMO the police didn't procecute because BL committed suicide.    Suddenly they deleted their tweets and stopped the threats.   Now though things are starting to go back to how it was.


Somehow these threats are deemed to be acceptable in the name of free speech and because these threats are on social media and not voiced in the street.
Strange!

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
It should be made clear it's your opinion they were credible.  The police issued a statement saying they didn't find anything unlawful.  The 'threat' about the twins was relayed from McCann's friend of the family in the libel court. It was therefore his interpretation of the forum conversation that the threats were credible.

The police go by the law which says that threats must be credible and have some degree of being likely to be carried out, people letting off steam and making bad taste jokes is not considered unlawful.

 
#

So you think it was ok for them to tweet threats?   Threats against innocent children?   What if one of them actually acted on it?

They were obviously stopped by the process,  they deleted their tweets and stopped being so vicious,  they weren't prosecuted but that doesn't mean the police didn't caution them.  I think some were banned from twitter too.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 01:43:27 PM

At the risk of fuelling one sceptics erroneous notion that I have knowledge of the dossier contents, I will add my thoughts..
Perhaps individual threats etc had been reported to the social media platforms.
Perhaps individual threats etc had been reported to the police.

The threats continue even to this day, and perhaps the people who compiled the dossier felt that if many of these posts were detailed and given to the police, some form of caution would be given.
As previously stated, I see no wrong in presenting evidence of concern to the media.
And as previously stated  the presentation of this evidence is outwith the control of those who were involved in the compilation of the dossier.

Can anyone answer my question?
I genuinely don't know that if a member of the public is stopped by a TV crew and asked questions which cause unease, can that person ask or demand that the footage be not shown.

We don't know what was given to Sky News and Martin Brunt. I suspect that BL's private address was also given to them thus why they were able to turn up on her doorstep unannounced.

The media don't require permission before publishing photos or video.  They are bound by the journalists charter but we have all seen how much that is worth as a result of the failed Leveson Enquiry.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 20, 2018, 01:44:24 PM

Somehow these threats are deemed to be acceptable in the name of free speech and because these threats are on social media and not voiced in the street.
Strange!


I know it beggars belief doesn't it,  aren't they changing the law though, I think I read something about the law regarding tweeting.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 01:45:50 PM
We don't know what was given to Sky News and Martin Brunt. I suspect that BL's private address was also given to them thus why they were able to turn up on her doorstep unannounced.

I believe she engaged in Twitter conversations with Martin Blunt or had at  least made some approach to him on Twitter.
It would be very easy for him to find.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 01:47:46 PM

I know it beggars belief doesn't it,  aren't they changing the law though, I think I read something about the law regarding tweeting.

I hope so.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 02:02:36 PM
I believe she engaged in Twitter conversations with Martin Blunt or had at  least made some approach to him on Twitter.
It would be very easy for him to find.

I dont see how as Twitter users are anonymous.  I think someone who knew her snitched on her.

Brenda did have a right to due process and that right was denied to her. I think Sky News did very wrong and got off very lightly.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 02:07:51 PM

Somehow these threats are deemed to be acceptable in the name of free speech and because these threats are on social media and not voiced in the street.
Strange!

I thought it was just Portuguese law which people had trouble understanding. It seems some find English law equally mystifying.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2018, 02:14:39 PM
It is very noticable that supporters on here are talking about other people who made threats .  This is about Brenda and the treatment of her by sneaky cowardly supporter trolls, and the consequenses of that.

Brenda did not make threats about the McCanns or to kill twins so please refrain from trying to tie her into that.

why not start a thread about 'nasty trolls'...and not use this thread. Don't forget to condem supporter trolls to make is all even and such.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 02:22:57 PM
28 seconds in

"They are considering a whole file".

[youtube]http://youtu.be/2pW0_bh4bz4[/youtube]

If you watch the beginning of that video you will see that Brenda answered NO three times when asked for an interview but Brunt pushed it.  Despicable man.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 20, 2018, 02:37:27 PM
If you watch the beginning of that video you will see that Brenda answered NO three times when asked for an interview but Brunt pushed it.  Despicable man.
brunt ran away from the world media for  weeks afterwoods    too  didnt he??
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
brunt ran away from the world media for  weeks afterwoods    too  didnt he??

Yes, like the dossier complilers, he couldn't handle the  negative 'media' en masse. poor wee love
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 02:58:16 PM
I think that's utterly ridiculous for the reason I have given above. 

Also, if the McCanns can be criticised by the media, why can't an unmasked internet troll?

Because the former by their own actions courted the media whereas BL didn't.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 03:17:21 PM
I believe Brunt went after Brenda because he had been conversing with her on twitter,  she give her real name away.    Brenda's tweets were among those others who had been stalking and threatening the McCann's.


Credible threats were made,   they threatened to kidnap the twins,  to kidnap the McCann's and beat the truth out of them among other threats.   


IMO the police didn't procecute because BL committed suicide.    Suddenly they deleted their tweets and stopped the threats.   Now though things are starting to go back to how it was.

Again Lace I will ask. How do you know that Brunt started conversing with BL before Sky received the dossier ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 03:22:51 PM

Somehow these threats are deemed to be acceptable in the name of free speech and because these threats are on social media and not voiced in the street.
Strange!

BL didn’t threaten the McCanns so on this thread your point is moot. However if the McCanns were being threatened by others why didn’t the supporters pass on that information to the McCanns or their representatives? Surely if the complaint came from those threatened it would have to be looked at more closely by any police force it was reported to ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 03:33:29 PM
Again Lace I will ask. How do you know that Brunt started conversing with BL before Sky received the dossier ?

The dossier was sent to Sky News before Brunt started following Brenda on twitter.

Before her encounter with Brunt, Leyland was a keen Sky News viewer. On 29 September, five days before she died, Leyland tweeted that Brunt had started following her on Twitter. This was the day she stopped tweeting and appears to also have been when the @Sweepyface account was deleted.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-10/6/10/enhanced/webdr04/longform-original-7415-1412605501-3.jpg?downsize=1200:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 03:39:45 PM

Somehow these threats are deemed to be acceptable in the name of free speech and because these threats are on social media and not voiced in the street.
Strange!

They weren't credible threats. The people who compiled the dossier had the opinion that they might be, the police didn't agree. The law says a threat has to have a reasonable chance of being carried out to be prosecutable.

   If you don't agree then your standard would also be applied to Kate McCann who said Amaral "deserves to be miserable and feel fear'"   ..... its an opinion.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 03:42:41 PM
I thought it was just Portuguese law which people had trouble understanding. It seems some find English law equally mystifying.


Fortunately I have no familiarity with English law.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
Because the former by their own actions courted the media whereas BL didn't.
So only people who “court the media” should be allowed to be criticised by the media?  Again, what utter nonsense IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 03:47:23 PM
They weren't credible threats. The people who compiled the dossier had the opinion that they might be, the police didn't agree. The law says a threat has to have a reasonable chance of being carried out to be prosecutable.

   If you don't agree then your standard would also be applied to Kate McCann who said Amaral "deserves to be miserable and feel fear'"   ..... its an opinion.

And you can guarantee that the threats made this week are not credible?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 03:55:49 PM
Exactly what is it all you angry Brenda supporters want?  For people to not be allowed to contact the media with their concerns about online threats and abuse?  For the media not to be allowed to report on individuals who have been unmasked as internet trolls or online abusers?  What?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 03:56:29 PM
Before her encounter with Brunt, Leyland was a keen Sky News viewer. On 29 September, five days before she died, Leyland tweeted that Brunt had started following her on Twitter. This was the day she stopped tweeting and appears to also have been when the @Sweepyface account was deleted.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-10/6/10/enhanced/webdr04/longform-original-7415-1412605501-3.jpg?downsize=1200:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto

The point being did Brunt start following BL before the dossier was presented to Sky. Lace seems to be of the opinion that it was before.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 03:58:33 PM
Exactly what is it all you angry Brenda supporters want?  For people to not be allowed to contact the media with their concerns about online threats and abuse?  For the media not to be allowed to report on individuals who have been unmasked as internet trolls or online abusers?  What?

Personally I want reports of threats and abuse passed on to the police dealt with by the police. What is so bizarre about that ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 04:02:13 PM
Personally I want reports of threats and abuse passed on to the police dealt with by the police. What is so bizarre about that ?
I believe that is what happened in this case too, but you have failed to answer my question (no surprise there of course!)
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 04:04:42 PM
Did any of Brend’s supporters think to report the dossier compilers and Sky News to the police for “causing the death” of a pensioner?  If so what was the response?  If not, why not?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 04:05:45 PM
I believe that is what happened in this case too, but you have failed to answer my question (no surprise there of course!)

This is what you asked  ‘Exactly what is it all you angry Brenda supporters want? and I told you. How is that avoiding your question?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 20, 2018, 04:14:05 PM
Right for all of the supporters saying Brenda gave her name to Martin Brunt.


No she did not. That was give by the dossier gatherers.  Here is my cite

A dossier compiled by a third party came into Martin Brunt's hands. He was not willing to say where the dossier had come from.

Martin Brunt was asked how did he make the connection between the dossier and @sweepyface as she was not named and there was no indication of a name and address.

One of his sources told him that she was Brenda Leyland and Leicester(shire/area?)

Brunt said he had done basic Internet searches and found two Brenda Leyland's in Leicester.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Brenda_Leyland.htm

So Martin Brunt was given her name and her county.  Hardly he found her all by himself. Even he has said that he only did basic internet searches to find. He was given her on a plate IMO.

Did Martin Brunt ever converse with Brenda on twitter. I have read her tweets and seen no replies from Brunty and a mention that he was following her.

So IMO unless someone can provide cites there is no evidence that Brenda had any idea that Martin Brunt was taking any interest in her apart from following her on twitter.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 04:20:03 PM
Right for all of the supporters saying Brenda gave her name to Martin Brunt.


No she did not. That was give by the dossier gatherers.  Here is my cite

A dossier compiled by a third party came into Martin Brunt's hands. He was not willing to say where the dossier had come from.

Martin Brunt was asked how did he make the connection between the dossier and @sweepyface as she was not named and there was no indication of a name and address.

One of his sources told him that she was Brenda Leyland and Leicester(shire/area?)

Brunt said he had done basic Internet searches and found two Brenda Leyland's in Leicester.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Brenda_Leyland.htm

So Martin Brunt was given her name and her county.  Hardly he found her all by himself. Even he has said that he only did basic internet searches to find. He was given her on a plate IMO.

Did Martin Brunt ever converse with Brenda on twitter. I have read her tweets and seen no replies from Brunty and a mention that he was following her.

So IMO unless someone can provide cites there is no evidence that Brenda had any idea that Martin Brunt was taking any interest in her apart from following her on twitter.

If BL’s name was specifically given to Brunt by the compilers of the dossier then they are indeed complicit in her death.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 04:21:06 PM
Right for all of the supporters saying Brenda gave her name to Martin Brunt.


No she did not. That was give by the dossier gatherers.  Here is my cite

A dossier compiled by a third party came into Martin Brunt's hands. He was not willing to say where the dossier had come from.

Martin Brunt was asked how did he make the connection between the dossier and @sweepyface as she was not named and there was no indication of a name and address.

One of his sources told him that she was Brenda Leyland and Leicester(shire/area?)

Brunt said he had done basic Internet searches and found two Brenda Leyland's in Leicester.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Brenda_Leyland.htm

So Martin Brunt was given her name and her county.  Hardly he found her all by himself. Even he has said that he only did basic internet searches to find. He was given her on a plate IMO.

Did Martin Brunt ever converse with Brenda on twitter. I have read her tweets and seen no replies from Brunty and a mention that he was following her.

So IMO unless someone can provide cites there is no evidence that Brenda had any idea that Martin Brunt was taking any interest in her apart from following her on twitter.

Thank you Sunny.  The first time Brenda had any direct contact with Brunt and Sky was when the idiots turned up in the street outside her home.  He was there waiting to ambush her.  He asked for an interview, she repeatedly said no but he carried on like a fox after a rabbit.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 04:33:09 PM
If BL’s name was specifically given to Brunt by the compilers of the dossier then they are indeed complicit in her death.

A harsh reality but one all the same.  Had they not targeted her things could have been oh so different. A statement by her son Benjamin who lived in Los Angeles was read out at the inquest which said that Brunt's unwelcome visit and the exposure on national TV  "left him in no doubt was the final straw which pushed my mum to do what she did. She was broken ... destroyed".

[youtube]http://youtu.be/Fxsd9gUT6Ek[/youtube]
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 04:34:59 PM
This is what you asked  ‘Exactly what is it all you angry Brenda supporters want? and I told you. How is that avoiding your question?
I meant as a result of Brenda’s sad demise.  What do you want to happen?  A change in the law to prevent this happening again?  If not, why not?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 04:37:34 PM
If BL’s name was specifically given to Brunt by the compilers of the dossier then they are indeed complicit in her death.
Isn’t being complicit in someone ‘s death a criminal matter?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 20, 2018, 04:43:05 PM
Isn’t being complicit in someone ‘s death a criminal matter?

You don't seem to care that I have shown the dossier was given with names and at least part addresses to Martin Brunt and I believe the Daily Mail too.

So it wasn't just a random list of tweets with usernames was it. It was a full dossier with the information on all of those who had posted anything that the dossier gathers though interesting.

Martin Brunt was given the ENTIRE story by an unnamed group of McCann supporters.  The question is why chose an elderly lady from Burton Overy who had made no threats to the McCanns. Who suggested Brenda to Martin Brunt.  Was it the dossier gatherers?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 04:45:22 PM
I meant as a result of Brenda’s sad demise.  What do you want to happen?  A change in the law to prevent this happening again?  If not, why not?

What change in the law would you suggest ? That old busybodies be forced to go to lunch clubs and knitting bees to stop them taking the law into their own hands ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
You don't seem to care that I have shown the dossier was given with names and at least part addresses to Martin Brunt and I believe the Daily Mail too.

So it wasn't just a random list of tweets with usernames was it. It was a full dossier with the information on all of those who had posted anything that the dossier gathers though interesting.

Martin Brunt was given the ENTIRE story by an unnamed group of McCann supporters.  The question is why chose an elderly lady from Burton Overy who had made no threats to the McCanns. Who suggested Brenda to Martin Brunt.  Was it the dossier gatherers?

It would appear so. I believe Brenda was chosen chiefly due to her proximity to the McCanns home.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
You don't seem to care that I have shown the dossier was given with names and at least part addresses to Martin Brunt and I believe the Daily Mail too.

So it wasn't just a random list of tweets with usernames was it. It was a full dossier with the information on all of those who had posted anything that the dossier gathers though interesting.

Martin Brunt was given the ENTIRE story by an unnamed group of McCann supporters.  The question is why chose an elderly lady from Burton Overy who had made no threats to the McCanns. Who suggested Brenda to Martin Brunt.  Was it the dossier gatherers?
I have no idea, nor any idea why you replied as you did to the question I asked.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 04:52:05 PM
What change in the law would you suggest ? That old busybodies be forced to go to lunch clubs and knitting bees to stop them taking the law into their own hands ?
Do you have a pathological hatred of old people by any chance?  You do seem to enjoy trotting out the stereotypes.  I take it from your response then that you are satisfied with the laws as they stand and that should allow any concerned members of the public  to compile dossiers on any activity they consider worth further investigation and pass it on to the police and/or media.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 04:53:01 PM
I believe she had been estranged from her own son for quite some time.
This must have caused her huge heartache.
She had attempted suicide before.

She seemed a sad lady who filled her time in obsessive tweeting and posting about the family of a missing child.
I've googled her name and many of her tweets appeared, one in particular about how she hates the McCanns.
Such a pity that she couldn't find a more worthwhile cause.
All very sad.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 20, 2018, 04:57:01 PM
And you can guarantee that the threats made this week are not credible?

What has that got to do with the unfair treatment of Brenda Leyland, who didn't make any threats?

 I like anybody can read the law guidelines on what is a credible threat and what isn't. If you know of any credible threats against anyone and they really concern you, you can report them to police. Just don't expect them to treat online insults or opinions as a crime.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 05:01:39 PM
I believe she had been estranged from her own son for quite some time.
This must have caused her huge heartache.
She had attempted suicide before.

She seemed a sad lady who filled her time in obsessive tweeting and posting about the family of a missing child.
I've googled her name and many of her tweets appeared, one in particular about how she hates the McCanns.
Such a pity that she couldn't find a more worthwhile cause.
All very sad.

The only way the McCanns would have known about her tweets directed at them would be if they went searching for them or were told.  She was harmless really and didn't deserve what happened to her.  She was to be pitied more than anything imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:01:55 PM
Do you have a pathological hatred of old people by any chance?  You do seem to enjoy trotting out the stereotypes.  I take it from your response then that you are satisfied with the laws as they stand and that should allow any concerned members of the public  to compile dossiers on any activity they consider worth further investigation and pass it on to the police and/or media.

I believe, as I have consistently said, that any information passed on to the police should be dealt with by the police and until a decision on their part is made there should be no part played by the media. If BL had been found to have performed an unlawful act then I would have had no issue with the involvement of the media but that  wasn’t allowed to happen. The reason why we can only guessed at.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 20, 2018, 05:02:51 PM
Right for all of the supporters saying Brenda gave her name to Martin Brunt.


No she did not. That was give by the dossier gatherers.  Here is my cite

A dossier compiled by a third party came into Martin Brunt's hands. He was not willing to say where the dossier had come from.

Martin Brunt was asked how did he make the connection between the dossier and @sweepyface as she was not named and there was no indication of a name and address.

One of his sources told him that she was Brenda Leyland and Leicester(shire/area?)

Brunt said he had done basic Internet searches and found two Brenda Leyland's in Leicester.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Brenda_Leyland.htm

So Martin Brunt was given her name and her county.  Hardly he found her all by himself. Even he has said that he only did basic internet searches to find. He was given her on a plate IMO.

Did Martin Brunt ever converse with Brenda on twitter. I have read her tweets and seen no replies from Brunty and a mention that he was following her.

So IMO unless someone can provide cites there is no evidence that Brenda had any idea that Martin Brunt was taking any interest in her apart from following her on twitter.


Have you considered Brunt's source for Brenda's details may have been Sonia Poulton, another Sky employee?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:03:25 PM
I believe she had been estranged from her own son for quite some time.
This must have caused her huge heartache.
She had attempted suicide before.

She seemed a sad lady who filled her time in obsessive tweeting and posting about the family of a missing child.
I've googled her name and many of her tweets appeared, one in particular about how she hates the McCanns.
Such a pity that she couldn't find a more worthwhile cause.
All very sad.

Your faux sympathy does you no credit.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
The only way the McCanns would have known about her tweets directed at them would be if they went searching for them or were told.  She was harmless really and didn't deserve what happened to her.  She was to be pitied more than anything imo

Harmless but more importantly, in the eyes of the law, innocent of any wrongdoing.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 05:06:53 PM
I believe, as I have consistently said, that any information passed on to the police should be dealt with by the police and until a decision on their part is made there should be no part played by the media. If BL had been found to have performed an unlawful act then I would have had no issue with the involvement of the media but that  wasn’t allowed to happen. The reason why we can only guessed at.
So therefore do you believe the law needs to be changed, and if you belive the dossier makers are complicit in Brenda’s death are you not concerned that they have not been prosecuted for a criminal act themselves?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:07:12 PM

Have you considered Brunt's source for Brenda's details may have been Sonia Poulton, another Sky employee?

I believe SP is freelance and why in heaven’s name would she pass on BL’s details to Brunt ? Was she even aware of NL at the time ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 05:09:10 PM
Harmless but more importantly, in the eyes of the law, innocent of any wrongdoing.
But Brenda did set out to harm, to harm the reputation of at least three people using tweets to do so.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:09:58 PM
So therefore do you believe the law needs to be changed, and if you belive the dossier makers are complicit in Brenda’s death are you not concerned that they have not been prosecuted for a criminal act themselves?

No the law doesn’t need to be changed. Certain individuals simply need to grow a conscience.

Did I say criminally complicit ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2018, 05:12:47 PM
The case of Brenda Leyland and the McCanns is a thoroughly modern tale of internet lawlessness

You can’t accuse a TV reporter of ‘hounding’ someone who is guilty of trolling

Grace Dent
Monday 6 October 2014 18:25

The circumstances around the death of Brenda Leyland, whose body was found in a Leicester hotel room this weekend, are all at once sad, complex, divisive and thoroughly modern.

Ms. Leyland, I cannot help but feel, is yet another victim of what I’ve termed “the internet wild west era” in which we’re living. The rules of civility are yet to be established. We’re naught but electronic guinea pigs. One man’s “troll” is another man’s prophet of truth. One woman’s systematic campaign of abuse is another woman’s brave battle to be heard.

Ms Leyland was doorstepped last week by Martin Brunt from Sky News over her alleged obsessive and relentless Twtter campaign to expose what she felt was “the truth” about Madeleine McCann’s parents Gerry and Kate.

A Twitter account by the handle @sweepyface had tweeted over 4,300 times supporting its firm - albeit incorrect - view that the McCanns are implicated nefariously in their daughter’s disappearance. The account’s contempt and anger for the McCanns was multi-faceted, inexhaustible, and at times breathtakingly unpleasant.

Mr Brunt took pains in his report to say that @sweepyface was not the worst offender. This I believe, as over many years I’ve noticed the anti-McCann conspiracy theory lobby to be some of the most furious, combative and unsettling message-propellers one might come across.

The McCann conspiracy theory is the perfect tinderbox for internet trolls. It involves a child’s disappearance, a possible paedophile bogeyman, a £2m fund with accusations of misuse, plus handily placed daft foreigners open to accusations of fecklessness and corruption. But more than this the McCann case appeals to firmly entrenched class war tensions that these evil middle class folk are able to pull strings or use their money or power to cover something up. I cannot remember blame and spite directed at Jamie Bulger’s mother or Sarah Payne’s grandparents alleging that it was flaws in their attention which had led to utter woe. In these cases, empathy and compassion were abundant.

Yet there is something about doctors eating patatas bravas within metres of sleeping children which drove Twitter accounts like @sweepyface to a bleak place. The @sweepyface account begged for attention endlessly - from like-minded people, from detractors, from journalists and from TV people. Matthew Wright received many tweets, Matin Brunt also – and with this in mind Brunt approached Ms Leyland to allot her just this - attention.

But, as I say, we’re in the wild west. While @sweepyface was desperate for exposure, Ms Leyland did not welcome it at all. While @sweepyface may have been in her element flinging around accusations, gossip and provoking ill-will, the real life Ms. Leyland met Mr Brunt’s request for a comment with a firm No and an attempt to disappear into her car.

Mr. Brunt is now being accused by some sections of “hounding” Ms. Leyland to her death. This seems extreme. Reporters have been doorstepping people and requesting answers on British television for the past 50 years. Are we now saying that in this new internet age, any person who draws attention to themselves vehemently but anonymously online is out of bounds for reporters?

Are we saying that we must accept that internet users working anonymously to spread misery are most probably mentally delicate and fuelled on their own shortcomings, so let’s leave be? Should a person's privacy be respected even if their modus operandi is disrespecting privacy? The only certainty this incident has underlined is we have no strong idea how to tackle harmful internet unpleasantness, aside from “ignore”.

There should be more help, support, understanding and escape routes offered to people living angrily behind keyboards. Their numbers are growing. In our ever web-dependent, fresh-air lacking, screen-chained world, we’re all more powerful, more superhuman behind our laptops in bed at midnight than we ever could be in real life.

And being an internet idiot, even just momentarily, is in all our sights. When we’re safely miles away from our target, we feel righteous, war-like, invincible and remorseless over our ability to wound. Ms. Leyland’s meeting with Mr Brunt was a reminder that when human beings propel anger electronically, the last thing they want is to be greeted with is a human face.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-case-of-brenda-leyland-and-the-mccanns-is-a-thoroughly-modern-tale-of-internet-lawlessness-9778262.html


"Matthew Wright received many tweets, Martin Brunt also ..."  If that is true and I have no doubt it is ... what on earth is this thread really about?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 20, 2018, 05:13:24 PM
I believe SP is freelance and why in heaven’s name would she pass on BL’s details to Brunt ? Was she even aware of NL at the time ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJ7aDmcuG4

Note the date on the video. How did Sonia know her own details were in the dossier?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2018, 05:14:11 PM
Your faux sympathy does you no credit.


I have three sons and if I was estranged from one of them I would be heartbroken..
This must have made her very sad.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 05:18:54 PM
No the law doesn’t need to be changed. Certain individuals simply need to grow a conscience.

Did I say criminally complicit ?
So you think being concerned by the unrelenting hateful campaign against the McCanns and sending a dossier about it to the media indicates a lack of conscience do you?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:19:56 PM
But Brenda did set out to harm, to harm the reputation of at least three people using tweets to do so.

Catch yourself on.

https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/womens-issues/brenda-leyland-wasnt-troll-didnt-deserve-die-544755.html
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 05:26:06 PM
So you think being concerned by the unrelenting hateful campaign against the McCanns and sending a dossier about it to the media indicates a lack of conscience do you?

I think the dossier compilers suffered from a lack of judgement fuelled by self-importance. I think Martin Brunt showed a lack of conscience....for heaven’s sake the woman told him she had thought of suicide over the doorstepping and yet he still ran the VT.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 05:27:21 PM
Catch yourself on.

https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/womens-issues/brenda-leyland-wasnt-troll-didnt-deserve-die-544755.html
What does “catch yourself on” mean?  And what is the relevance of this article to my post? The blog even agrees that she was involved in a lot of mud slinging and could have found herself up to her neck in legal issues - what would they be then?  I am correct when I say Brenda set out to cause further harm to reputations, not least of whom was Amy Tierney’s a perfectly innocent young woman.  Do you approve of individuals being defamed in such a  manner?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 05:30:41 PM
I think the dossier compilers suffered from a lack of judgement fuelled by self-importance. I think Martin Brunt showed a lack of conscience....for heaven’s sake the woman told him she had thought of suicide over the doorstepping and yet he still ran the VT.
Martin Brunt clearly had a conscience as he professed to be devastated by her death.  I’m sure he regrets his actions, but I am glad we have established that no laws were broken, no laws need to be changed and that the dossier compilers are not complicit in Brenda’s death ( I don’t think you can be complicit in another’s death and it not be a criminal matter tbh).
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 06:13:15 PM
What does “catch yourself on” mean?  And what is the relevance of this article to my post? The blog even agrees that she was involved in a lot of mud slinging and could have found herself up to her neck in legal issues - what would they be then?  I am correct when I say Brenda set out to cause further harm to reputations, not least of whom was Amy Tierney’s a perfectly innocent young woman.  Do you approve of individuals being defamed in such a  manner?

As I have told you before a young physiotherapist with my name was threatened with having their employer contacted by a supporter. Do you approve of that kind of behaviour?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 06:18:09 PM
As I have told you before a young physiotherapist with my name was threatened with having their employer contacted by a supporter. Do you approve of that kind of behaviour?
If you are going to reply to my posts at least have the good manners to reply to my questions before posimg you own.  You answer, you ask, I answer,  easy. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 06:23:31 PM
Martin Brunt clearly had a conscience as he professed to be devastated by her death.  I’m sure he regrets his actions, but I am glad we have established that no laws were broken, no laws need to be changed and that the dossier compilers are not complicit in Brenda’s death ( I don’t think you can be complicit in another’s death and it not be a criminal matter tbh).

No laws were broken and certainly not by BL or anyone included in the dossier. No laws need to be changed as the law as it stands was adequate and yes the dossier compilers are morally complicit in BL’s death.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 20, 2018, 07:25:40 PM
I have no idea, nor any idea why you replied as you did to the question I asked.

Apologies Vertigo Swirl, I had a post all ready to go then I had to go out.  Sorry for replying in a different way I was just intrigued to get your answer to my new post.

As regards your question can you be complicit in someones death without breaking the law.  I have no idea but I imagine that there is case law somewhere about it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 20, 2018, 07:42:05 PM
Apologies Vertigo Swirl, I had a post all ready to go then I had to go out.  Sorry for replying in a different way I was just intrigued to get your answer to my new post.

As regards your question can you be complicit in someones death without breaking the law.  I have no idea but I imagine that there is case law somewhere about it.
The executioner flicks the switch, but he doesn't break the law.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2018, 07:49:51 PM
The executioner flicks the switch, but he doesn't break the law.
Oookay, the exception that proves the rule...  8((()*/
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 07:59:55 PM
The executioner flicks the switch, but he doesn't break the law.

He's not complicit in the death either because the death is lawful.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 20, 2018, 08:05:15 PM
Apologies Vertigo Swirl, I had a post all ready to go then I had to go out.  Sorry for replying in a different way I was just intrigued to get your answer to my new post.

As regards your question can you be complicit in someones death without breaking the law.  I have no idea but I imagine that there is case law somewhere about it.

One can be morally complicit with others in an endeavor which ultimately results in a death. IMO the dossier compilers were complicit with Martin Brunt and he with them in what occurred. By attempting to gain the moral high and do the rebuking, they ultimately became the ones rebuked.  Unfortunately, two wrongs do not make a right! 

Best to leave these things to the police.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 20, 2018, 08:15:56 PM
One can be morally complicit with others in an endeavor which ultimately results in a death. IMO the dossier compilers were complicit with Martin Brunt and he with them in what occurred. By attempting to gain the moral high ground they ultimately lost it because of what occurred. Unfortunately, two wrongs do not make a right!

Calling them that affords them a sense a credibilty and importance which traits they no doubt crave.
I would have thought there were more accurate descriptions.

"Dossier Compilers! ?; makes 'em sound like something from SOE or SIS..... @)(++(*
Deranged Tpots more like.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2018, 08:55:04 PM
Calling them that affords them a sense a credibilty and importance which traits they no doubt crave.
I would have thought there were more accurate descriptions.

"Dossier Compilers! ?; makes 'em sound like something from SOE or SIS..... @)(++(*
Deranged Tpots more like.

It's something they will have to carry with them to the grave.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 09:52:40 PM
It's something they will have to carry with them to the grave.

And the disapprobation of every right thinking member of their families.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 20, 2018, 09:54:29 PM
And the disapprobation of every right thinking member of their families.

One of the dossier gatherers has already fallen out with his family as I remember, but under different circumstances IMO.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 09:57:37 PM
One of the dossier gatherers has already fallen out with his family as I remember, but under different circumstances IMO.

Then it is nothing more than he deserves.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2018, 10:36:40 PM
It's something they will have to carry with them to the grave.

I don''t think it will worry them having read some of the opinions on this thread.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 10:45:05 PM
I don''t think it will worry them having read some of the opinions on this thread.

I think the desperate efforts of some to distance themselves from those who compiled the dossier belies their suppport for the dossier posted here.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 20, 2018, 11:53:31 PM
If you are going to reply to my posts at least have the good manners to reply to my questions before posimg you own.  You answer, you ask, I answer,  easy.

If Amy Tierney was defamed then it is up to her to seek a resolution.

It is interesting though that while condemning the actions of Brenda you have yet to condemn the actions of your fellow supporter.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 12:22:00 AM
Amy Tierney what is this?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 06:04:56 AM
If Amy Tierney was defamed then it is up to her to seek a resolution.

It is interesting though that while condemning the actions of Brenda you have yet to condemn the actions of your fellow supporter.

I would add an s onto supporter making it supporters Faithlilly although, I don't believe the one person who made that block of threatening posts was a McCann supporter just a real troll, unlike Brenda Leyland.

I have seen the text of tweets posted by a couple of supporters regarding Brenda Leyland and their glee at finding her and her sons boxer dog so knew who she was.    They had clearly been looking for her for a while IMO.  From my reading this looked like a concerted effort to name and shame so to speak, as many sceptics as possible without caring who they were or what they had posted.

Robittybob, Amy Tierney was a member of the Ocean Club staff and I think Brenda Leyland amongst others mistakenly thought that a poster on twitter was her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:25:43 AM
If Amy Tierney was defamed then it is up to her to seek a resolution.

It is interesting though that while condemning the actions of Brenda you have yet to condemn the actions of your fellow supporter.
I asked you if you approved of Brenda’s posts in which she defamed an individual, interesting that your support for Brenda is such that you can’t bring yourself to answer the question.  As for your other point I brlieve I did already condemn those vile tweets but there was no evidence that they were made by a McCann supporter, no previous posts made on the subject, just an out and out troll.  And even if they WERE a regular McCann supporter posting under a new account created solely for that purpose then I would still condemn them absolutely.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 08:54:40 AM
I asked you if you approved of Brenda’s posts in which she defamed an individual, interesting that your support for Brenda is such that you can’t bring yourself to answer the question.  As for your other point I brlieve I did already condemn those vile tweets but there was no evidence that they were made by a McCann supporter, no previous posts made on the subject, just an out and out troll.  And even if they WERE a regular McCann supporter posting under a new account created solely for that purpose then I would still condemn them absolutely.


What had Brenda Leyland done wrong.

What gave brunt the right - to do what he did to her.

Why did he think it important to sky news to do what he did - or even news worthy.

All Brenda did is what thousands do every day - and still do.

IMO, he wouldn't have dared  go to the mcns door - demanding them to answer questions.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 21, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
One can be morally complicit with others in an endeavor which ultimately results in a death. IMO the dossier compilers were complicit with Martin Brunt and he with them in what occurred. By attempting to gain the moral high and do the rebuking, they ultimately became the ones rebuked.  Unfortunately, two wrongs do not make a right! 

Best to leave these things to the police.

Sorry John I disagree,   the dossier compiler/s did what they thought was right,  they were worried about consequences,   Martin Brunt then [knowing who BL was as she had put her name on the internet]  confronted her about the tweets she and the group she was in were posting on the internet.   Now I am sorry but journalists confront people in this way all the time,  they don't go out and take their life over it.   Are you saying that citizens shouldn't gather information together if they think something bad was going to happen?   What about the boy who tweeted he was going to kill?  His fellow pupils ignored it thinking he was just a weirdo,  he went on to kill how do you think those children feel?   Do you think they are thinking 'if only'.    BL decided to take her own life,  she had attempted it before,  no one is to blame IMO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 10:05:32 AM
Sorry John I disagree,   the dossier compiler/s did what they thought was right,  they were worried about consequences,   Martin Brunt then [knowing who BL was as she had put her name on the internet]  confronted her about the tweets she and the group she was in were posting on the internet.   Now I am sorry but journalists confront people in this way all the time,  they don't go out and take their life over it.   Are you saying that citizens shouldn't gather information together if they think something bad was going to happen?   What about the boy who tweeted he was going to kill?  His fellow pupils ignored it thinking he was just a weirdo,  he went on to kill how do you think those children feel?   Do you think they are thinking 'if only'.    BL decided to take her own life,  she had attempted it before,  no one is to blame IMO


If they thought it was right why was it all done anonymously then.

Why did they not contact the police - if they honestly thought something bad was going to happen
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 21, 2018, 10:11:17 AM

If they thought it was right why was it all done anonymously then.

Why did they not contact the police - if they honestly thought something bad was going to happen

I doubt if they were anonymous to the police.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 10:16:44 AM
I asked you if you approved of Brenda’s posts in which she defamed an individual, interesting that your support for Brenda is such that you can’t bring yourself to answer the question.  As for your other point I brlieve I did already condemn those vile tweets but there was no evidence that they were made by a McCann supporter, no previous posts made on the subject, just an out and out troll.  And even if they WERE a regular McCann supporter posting under a new account created solely for that purpose then I would still condemn them absolutely.

I wasn’t talking about Raine, I believe, but the supporter who threatened to contact a wholly innocent young woman’s employer simply because she had the same name as me.

As to Brenda, I believe it was tit for tat with none of those taking part in the twitter dialogue being covered in glory.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 10:21:56 AM
I doubt if they were anonymous to the police.

All the supporters here who have been accused of taking part in the dossier seem appalled at the suggestion even though they are also anonymous here and would not be exposed by admitting it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the actions taken is it ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 10:29:50 AM
I doubt if they were anonymous to the police.


So did they hand it to the police first.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:41:08 AM

So did they hand it to the police first.
Are you asking did they hand the dossier to the police first?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 11:02:26 AM
Are you asking did they hand the dossier to the police first?

Yes
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:07:49 AM
Yes

They did Kizzy but imo when the police failed to hand out quickly enough the retribution the compilers so obviously craved they handed it to Sky news.


Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 11:47:50 AM
They did Kizzy but imo when the police failed to hand out quickly enough the retribution the compilers so obviously craved they handed it to Sky news.

Well when you've spent all that time and effort compiling these dossiers, to have it discarded is just not good enough, is it? Vindication of your actions is what you want

What really amazes me is why they bothered accumulating all the information.
It clearly didn't achieve what they wanted - prosecution, and rather backfired on them.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 21, 2018, 11:55:22 AM
No one knows the pressures suffered by an individual which leads them to despair of their lives and give up by ending it all.

We know from the evidence presented at her inquest that Brenda Leyland had previously attempted suicide; we know that on this occasion her attempt was successful; what we cannot know is what exactly was going through her mind when she went out and purchased the means of ending her life.

As an aside ... she had 'friends' on twitter.  Did any perhaps contact her either with support when she was 'outed' or condemnation for not making a better case?
Or was this fragile and perhaps desperately lonely woman ignored.

Martin Brunt (who did not know her medical history) did speak with her and she spoke with her son (who did know her medical history) who thought she was devastated by being headline news ... but neither man ~ or the neighbour with whom she made arrangements for the care of her cat ~ had an inkling of the action she would take later.

Did Brenda Leyland have the right to due process?
I sincerely think she did.

Why didn't she take it? 
Wasn't her son a lawyer who could have advised her of the best course of action to take in the circumstances?

Something which has been conspicuously absent from this whole internet fest is any comment from Brenda Leyland's family.
There has been no public statement of outrage or any attempt to take legal action against anyone associated with either compiling the hate dossier or anyone revealing her role in the now more than eleven year continual internet onslaught directed at the McCann family.

I think respect for Brenda Leyland's family is sadly lacking by those turning an incredibly sad and troubled woman into an icon for the hatred that burns in their hearts which refuses to allow her to rest in the peace she didn't have in her life.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
I think we have all learned a valuable lesson from the incident and the repercussions which followed and that is not to interfere in what is really an issue which must be decided by the police and ultimately the CPS or its devolved equivalents.  I'm sure we can all agree that trial by media is totally unacceptable?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 12:03:22 PM
No one knows the pressures suffered by an individual which leads them to despair of their lives and give up by ending it all.

We know from the evidence presented at her inquest that Brenda Leyland had previously attempted suicide; we know that on this occasion her attempt was successful; what we cannot know is what exactly was going through her mind when she went out and purchased the means of ending her life.

As an aside ... she had 'friends' on twitter.  Did any perhaps contact her either with support when she was 'outed' or condemnation for not making a better case?
Or was this fragile and perhaps desperately lonely woman ignored.

Martin Brunt (who did not know her medical history) did speak with her and she spoke with her son (who did know her medical history) who thought she was devastated by being headline news ... but neither man ~ or the neighbour with whom she made arrangements for the care of her cat ~ had an inkling of the action she would take later.

Did Brenda Leyland have the right to due process?
I sincerely think she did.

Why didn't she take it? 
Wasn't her son a lawyer who could have advised her of the best course of action to take in the circumstances?

Something which has been conspicuously absent from this whole internet fest is any comment from Brenda Leyland's family.
There has been no public statement of outrage or any attempt to take legal action against anyone associated with either compiling the hate dossier or anyone revealing her role in the now more than eleven year continual internet onslaught directed at the McCann family.

I think respect for Brenda Leyland's family is sadly lacking by those turning an incredibly sad and troubled woman into an icon for the hatred that burns in their hearts which refuses to allow her to rest in the peace she didn't have in her life.

All the more reason he should not have done what he did. Hopefully a lesson learned but unfortunately a hard one for some.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 21, 2018, 12:26:58 PM
All the more reason he should not have done what he did. Hopefully a lesson learned but unfortunately a hard one for some.

He was doing his job, John, in the time honoured way rolling news is covered.
There are those who would perhaps revel in the notoriety (apparently you were no-one unless you were named in the dossier).   

If individuals devote their lives to joining a very active hate campaign against named individuals without realising how easy it is to be 'outed' there should be some means of warning them that this is not the case.

I have no doubt Brenda Leland's easy exposure made a few think twice about their internet use ... particularly those who have chosen to 'anonymously' pursue a different abuse target from the McCann family.
Some of whom have committed suicide as a result of suffering such abuse.

The legislation is already in existence to combat internet misuse ... it just isn't being used.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 21, 2018, 12:36:12 PM
All the supporters here who have been accused of taking part in the dossier seem appalled at the suggestion even though they are also anonymous here and would not be exposed by admitting it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the actions taken is it ?


I'm not appalled at the suggestion.

They stay anonymous so that crazy abuse threatening morons don't take revenge.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 12:40:28 PM

I'm not appalled at the suggestion.

They stay anonymous so that crazy abuse threatening morons don't take revenge.

But were quite happy to behave as   'crazy abuse threatening morons' in the first place.
Perhaps they should have thought about potential consequences before unleashing their ire on others
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 12:47:51 PM
Judging by the comments on this thread no-one has learned anything from what happened imo. I get the impression that if people feel the police and the law don't deal with what IN THEIR OPINION is criminal behaviour then it's OK to use other methods to deal with these 'criminals'.

That includes informing the media and then letting them do as they think fit; after all, it wasn't the fault of the 'concerned citizens' if the media chose to doorstep one of these 'criminals' and broadcast the results, was it.

When tragic consequences follow, it's no-one's fault either because none of them knew they were pursuing a vulnerable person, did they?

Talk about passing the buck!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2018, 12:50:54 PM
Does behaviour have to be criminal before it is deemed wrong?

Best if it is.
So what are you proposing as an alternative?.
I don't think you would actually like the alternative unless you were on the dispensing end.
But in those circumstances "might is right" and your "might" may not hold sway.

You do sound like an adolescent in a 1950s/1960s dance hall.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 21, 2018, 12:57:16 PM
I think we have all learned a valuable lesson from the incident and the repercussions which followed and that is not to interfere in what is really an issue which must be decided by the police and ultimately the CPS or its devolved equivalents.  I'm sure we can all agree that trial by media is totally unacceptable?

Trial by media is what started it all John.   People decided the McCann's were guilty and took it upon themselves to try them on media like a pack of crazy mediaeval witches.   Not satisfied with posts proclaiming the McCann's were guilty they formed groups where they met to stir up hatred for the family, then the threats about what should happen to them to get to the 'truth' as they called it.

Still it goes on to this day.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 21, 2018, 01:00:26 PM
Judging by the comments on this thread no-one has learned anything from what happened imo. I get the impression that if people feel the police and the law don't deal with what IN THEIR OPINION is criminal behaviour then it's OK to use other methods to deal with these 'criminals'.

That includes informing the media and then letting them do as they think fit; after all, it wasn't the fault of the 'concerned citizens' if the media chose to doorstep one of these 'criminals' and broadcast the results, was it.

When tragic consequences follow, it's no-one's fault either because none of them knew they were pursuing a vulnerable person, did they?

Talk about passing the buck!

No nothing has been learned you're right,  they are still at it.

They decided the McCann's were criminals and make it their right to abuse and threaten the family.

Is that ok with you?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2018, 01:05:37 PM
But were quite happy to behave as   'crazy abuse threatening morons' in the first place.
Perhaps they should have thought about potential consequences before unleashing their ire on others

May the gods preserve us from the zealots.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 01:08:19 PM
Best if it is.
So what are you proposing as an alternative?.
I don't think you would actually like the alternative unless you were on the dispensing end.
But in those circumstances "might is right" and your "might" may not hold sway.

You do sound like an adolescent in a 1950s/1960s dance hall.


If someone has an elderly parent whom they only visit  or contact once or twice a year, then in my opinion that is wrong but not criminal.

If someone skips their place in a queue by barging in front, then in my opinion that is wrong but not criminal.

If a partner cheats on their wife or husband then in my opinion that is wrong but not criminal

If someone posts hate on social media then in my opinion that is wrong and should be a crime.

I do wonder why you feel the need to add sneering personal remarks to other posters.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2018, 01:16:33 PM

If someone has an elderly parent whom they only visit  or contact once or twice a year, then in my opinion that is wrong but not criminal.

If someone skips their place in a queue by barging in front, then in my opinion that is wrong but not criminal.

If a partner cheats on their wife or husband then in my opinion that is wrong but not criminal

If someone posts hate on social media then in my opinion that is wrong and should be a crime.

I do wonder why you feel the need to add sneering personal remarks to other posters.


See my post.
Your post is living proof you like to dispense not to receive.
QED

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 01:36:38 PM
Sorry John I disagree,   the dossier compiler/s did what they thought was right,  they were worried about consequences,   Martin Brunt then [knowing who BL was as she had put her name on the internet]  confronted her about the tweets she and the group she was in were posting on the internet.   Now I am sorry but journalists confront people in this way all the time,  they don't go out and take their life over it.   Are you saying that citizens shouldn't gather information together if they think something bad was going to happen?   What about the boy who tweeted he was going to kill?  His fellow pupils ignored it thinking he was just a weirdo,  he went on to kill how do you think those children feel?   Do you think they are thinking 'if only'.    BL decided to take her own life,  she had attempted it before,  no one is to blame IMO

A few points Lace regarding your post. 

1)the dossier compiler/s did what they thought was right - How would you know if you were not at least aware of the dossier prior to it going to Sky etc.

2) Martin Brunt then [knowing who BL was as she had put her name on the internet]  - NO her name was not "all on the internet" in connection with sweepyface. It took a few other supporters to find out who she is and I have read the thread on how they found her. Martin Brunt was given her full name and that she lived in Leicester(shire)

3) Now I am sorry but journalists confront people in this way all the time,  they don't go out and take their life over it.  - They may confont people all the time but generally not right outside their house and give it a full rolling news every 30 minutes or so, plus the other media screaming TROLL at Brenda Leyland.

4) What about the boy who tweeted he was going to kill?  His fellow pupils ignored it thinking he was just a weirdo,  he went on to kill how do you think those children feel?   - So you think going to the media would save a person's life or wouldn't it be better to go straight to the police and bypass the outing of the person who made the tweets until after they were arrested.

5) BL decided to take her own life,  she had attempted it before,  no one is to blame IMO - you would say that wouldn't you.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 21, 2018, 01:57:35 PM
Trial by media is what started it all John.   People decided the McCann's were guilty and took it upon themselves to try them on media like a pack of crazy mediaeval witches.   Not satisfied with posts proclaiming the McCann's were guilty they formed groups where they met to stir up hatred for the family, then the threats about what should happen to them to get to the 'truth' as they called it.

Still it goes on to this day.

 The Mccanns were official asuspects in a case and who admitted leaving young children alone night after night... no wonder people have negative opinions and express them.

then you have Brenda Leyland, like many others expressing this opinion but she is doorstepped and singled out on national TV without any warning. Why anyone could condone this or think it fair treatment I can't understand.
  Even the McCanns had time to pick who they spoke to in the media/ interviews, on the night of the abduction, they got consular support, Embassy support and days after flew out family members, police and secured lawyers / P.R to represent them.

 Yes people's opinions are still expressed today, that is not the same as 'threats'. Maybe a cite should be required for claims of 'threats', as the police found no credible threats in an 80 page document. Even the police could only describe it as 'unpleasant'. Why did the concerned dossier compilers have to collate so much discussion from fora and online when none of it turned out legally to be threats?  IMO it was an attempted intimidation exercise in order to curtail free discussion on an issue they didn't want people to discuss. Brenda was the scapegoat in this exercise.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 02:04:18 PM
The Mccanns were official asuspects in a case and who admitted leaving young children alone night after night... no wonder people have negative opinions and express them.

then you have Brenda Leyland, like many others expressing this opinion but she is doorstepped and singled out on national TV without any warning. Why anyone could condone this or think it fair treatment I can't understand.
  Even the McCanns had time to pick who they spoke to in the media/ interviews, on the night of the abduction, they got consular support, Embassy support and days after flew out family members, police and secured lawyers / P.R to represent them.

 Yes people's opinions are still expressed today, that is not the same as 'threats'. Maybe a cite should be required for claims of 'threats', as the police found no credible threats in an 80 page document. Even the police could only describe it as 'unpleasant'. Why did the concerned dossier compilers have to collate so much discussion from fora and online when none of it turned out legally to be threats?  IMO it was an attempted intimidation exercise in order to curtail free discussion on an issue they didn't want people to discuss. Brenda was the scapegoat in this exercise.


Sounds reasonable to me
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 02:22:51 PM
The Mccanns were official asuspects in a case and who admitted leaving young children alone night after night... no wonder people have negative opinions and express them.

then you have Brenda Leyland, like many others expressing this opinion but she is doorstepped and singled out on national TV without any warning. Why anyone could condone this or think it fair treatment I can't understand.
  Even the McCanns had time to pick who they spoke to in the media/ interviews, on the night of the abduction, they got consular support, Embassy support and days after flew out family members, police and secured lawyers / P.R to represent them.

 Yes people's opinions are still expressed today, that is not the same as 'threats'. Maybe a cite should be required for claims of 'threats', as the police found no credible threats in an 80 page document. Even the police could only describe it as 'unpleasant'. Why did the concerned dossier compilers have to collate so much discussion from fora and online when none of it turned out legally to be threats?  IMO it was an attempted intimidation exercise in order to curtail free discussion on an issue they didn't want people to discuss. Brenda was the scapegoat in this exercise.

Very well put.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 02:32:52 PM
No one knows the pressures suffered by an individual which leads them to despair of their lives and give up by ending it all.

We know from the evidence presented at her inquest that Brenda Leyland had previously attempted suicide; we know that on this occasion her attempt was successful; what we cannot know is what exactly was going through her mind when she went out and purchased the means of ending her life.

As an aside ... she had 'friends' on twitter.  Did any perhaps contact her either with support when she was 'outed' or condemnation for not making a better case?
Or was this fragile and perhaps desperately lonely woman ignored.

Martin Brunt (who did not know her medical history) did speak with her and she spoke with her son (who did know her medical history) who thought she was devastated by being headline news ... but neither man ~ or the neighbour with whom she made arrangements for the care of her cat ~ had an inkling of the action she would take later.

Did Brenda Leyland have the right to due process?
I sincerely think she did.

Why didn't she take it? 
Wasn't her son a lawyer who could have advised her of the best course of action to take in the circumstances?

Something which has been conspicuously absent from this whole internet fest is any comment from Brenda Leyland's family.
There has been no public statement of outrage or any attempt to take legal action against anyone associated with either compiling the hate dossier or anyone revealing her role in the now more than eleven year continual internet onslaught directed at the McCann family.

I think respect for Brenda Leyland's family is sadly lacking by those turning an incredibly sad and troubled woman into an icon for the hatred that burns in their hearts which refuses to allow her to rest in the peace she didn't have in her life.

Excellent post
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 04:07:12 PM
He was doing his job, John, in the time honoured way rolling news is covered.
There are those who would perhaps revel in the notoriety (apparently you were no-one unless you were named in the dossier).   

If individuals devote their lives to joining a very active hate campaign against named individuals without realising how easy it is to be 'outed' there should be some means of warning them that this is not the case.

I have no doubt Brenda Leland's easy exposure made a few think twice about their internet use ... particularly those who have chosen to 'anonymously' pursue a different abuse target from the McCann family.
Some of whom have committed suicide as a result of suffering such abuse.

The legislation is already in existence to combat internet misuse ... it just isn't being used.

I strongly disagree, it was not Martin Brunt's job to doorstep a member of the public in such a way. BL was not a criminal, she was not about to be arrested nor was she the subject of any criminal proceedings.

The aftermath indicates that Sky News, their producer and reporter all overstepped the mark.  They had no right to single out a member of the public in such a cowardly manner. All Sky was after was some sensationalist footage to broadcast and to hell with the consequences. The Sky team were lucky to keep their jobs following such a stupid prank. They appear to have learned their lesson but all too late for the victim.

I suspect the truth behind what occurred was more to do with saving face over the fiasco in Praia da Luz than it was to do with unearthing an internet troll.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 21, 2018, 04:09:46 PM
I find the notion that Brenda was an 'incredibly sad troubled woman' a bit patronising really. Many people suffer from depression. It doesn't mean Brunt, Sky or the compilers of the no substance dossier are resolved of responsibility for what they set into motion.

Her son said she once attempted suicide 'a long time ago', yes he was a lawyer and he had spoken to her about trying to get the media not to publish her photo in the paper after she phoned him in a panic. A bit of a tall order after being plastered live all over sky news the day before!
 Saying people want to use her and make her an icon of their 'hatred' is absurd to me, I for one am appalled that she was unjustly hounded in this way for expressing her views in a country where we supposedly have freedom of speech.
 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 04:14:39 PM
A little point but an important one, the Sky broadcast was not live.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 04:20:21 PM
I find the notion that Brenda was an 'incredibly sad troubled woman' a bit patronising really. Many people suffer from depression. It doesn't mean Brunt, Sky or the compilers of the no substance dossier are resolved of responsibility for what they set into motion.

Her son said she once attempted suicide 'a long time ago', yes he was a lawyer and he had spoken to her about trying to get the media not to publish her photo in the paper after she phoned him in a panic. A bit of a tall order after being plastered live all over sky news the day before!
 Saying people want to use her and make her an icon of their 'hatred' is absurd to me, I for one am appalled that she was unjustly hounded in this way for expressing her views in a country where we supposedly have freedom of speech.
 


But our freedom of speech is constrained in many ways which I hope you believe is correct.
We cannot  venture out into public and voice hatred towards any person because of their ethinticity, religion, sexual preference. etc.
None of this is allowed either on social media.
She could certainly express her views on whether she believed that Madeleine was abducted but why did she express hatred.
Why hate?


Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 04:40:50 PM
IMO if Brenda had been contrite & apologised (on camera at the time)  for any hurt her words may have caused to the McCanns or other individuals then it is probable she would not have been the subject of rolling footage. Her defiant attitude  in appearing to not accept she had done anything wrong was her undoing imo & why she was made an example of. Had she been charged, the exchange with Brunt would have been used as further evidence against her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 05:35:54 PM
He was doing his job, John, in the time honoured way rolling news is covered.
There are those who would perhaps revel in the notoriety (apparently you were no-one unless you were named in the dossier).   

If individuals devote their lives to joining a very active hate campaign against named individuals without realising how easy it is to be 'outed' there should be some means of warning them that this is not the case.

I have no doubt Brenda Leland's easy exposure made a few think twice about their internet use ... particularly those who have chosen to 'anonymously' pursue a different abuse target from the McCann family.
Some of whom have committed suicide as a result of suffering such abuse.

The legislation is already in existence to combat internet misuse ... it just isn't being used.



He was doing his job, John,


Oh fgs. - you think that ok then to harass someone to imo death.

What about GA then - he was only doing his ...job.

Fair to say there i think B - a bit of double standerds going on there. imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 05:36:45 PM
I wasn’t talking about Raine, I believe, but the supporter who threatened to contact a wholly innocent young woman’s employer simply because she had the same name as me.

As to Brenda, I believe it was tit for tat with none of those taking part in the twitter dialogue being covered in glory.
Anyone who contacts someone’s place of work out of spite is to be comdemned utterly, and as I’m sure you are already aware this has also happened to McCann supporters.  Don’t ask for cites as I’m not prepared to drag up anciemt history and would have to name names.  I’m sure you know I’m right however.  It’s all incredibly childish behaviour IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 21, 2018, 05:37:31 PM
IMO if Brenda had been contrite & apologised (on camera at the time)  for any hurt her words may have caused to the McCanns or other individuals then it is probable she would not have been the subject of rolling footage. Her defiant attitude  in appearing to not accept she had done anything wrong was her undoing imo & why she was made an example of. Had she been charged, the exchange with Brunt would have been used as further evidence against her.

Quite ironic that... contrite and apologetic...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 05:42:35 PM

See my post.
Your post is living proof you like to dispense not to receive.
QED
Who really would like to be on the receiving end of you regularly dispensed withering contempt andd occasional obscenity?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 21, 2018, 05:44:20 PM

But our freedom of speech is constrained in many ways which I hope you believe is correct.
We cannot  venture out into public and voice hatred towards any person because of their ethinticity, religion, sexual preference. etc.
None of this is allowed either on social media.
She could certainly express her views on whether she believed that Madeleine was abducted but why did she express hatred.
Why hate?

We can be quite strong in our condemnation of others behaviour without crossing the bounds of legality.

It all comes down to whether you are commenting on a person or their actions.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 05:45:28 PM
The Mccanns were official asuspects in a case and who admitted leaving young children alone night after night... no wonder people have negative opinions and express them.

then you have Brenda Leyland, like many others expressing this opinion but she is doorstepped and singled out LIVE on national TV without any warning. Why anyone could condone this or think it fair treatment I can't understand.
  Even the McCanns had time to pick who they spoke to in the media/ interviews, on the night of the abduction, they got consular support, Embassy support and days after flew out family members, police and secured lawyers / P.R to represent them.

 Yes people's opinions are still expressed today, that is not the same as 'threats'. Maybe a cite should be required for claims of 'threats', as the police found no credible threats in an 80 page document. Even the police could only describe it as 'unpleasant'. Why did the concerned dossier compilers have to collate so much discussion from fora and online when none of it turned out legally to be threats?  IMO it was an attempted intimidation exercise in order to curtail free discussion on an issue they didn't want people to discuss. Brenda was the scapegoat in this exercise.
I don’t believe Martin Brunt conducted a live broadcast from outside Brenda’s house -that would have been very risky.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 21, 2018, 05:45:54 PM
Who really would like to be on the receiving end of you regularly dispensed withering contempt andd occasional obscenity?

Who would really care?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 05:50:08 PM
Who would really care?
Well I doubt you would let it stand if you were on the receiving end would you?  It would be deleted in seconds and penalty points issued in a jiffy, ergo you would really care, obviously.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 05:57:15 PM
We can be quite strong in our condemnation of others behaviour without crossing the bounds of legality.

It all comes down to whether you are commenting on a person or their actions.

Hate is a very strong comment to use to the parents of a missing child.
Even if in the context of  their baby sitting arrangements.
I assume that would be what Brenda was condemning.
I still don't understand the hatred.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 21, 2018, 06:00:17 PM
Hate is a very strong comment to use to the parents of a missing child.
Even if in the context of  their baby sitting arrangements.
I assume that would be what Brenda was condemning.
I still don't understand the hatred.

Can you cite this hate?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2018, 06:01:41 PM
IMO if Brenda had been contrite & apologised (on camera at the time)  for any hurt her words may have caused to the McCanns or other individuals then it is probable she would not have been the subject of rolling footage. Her defiant attitude  in appearing to not accept she had done anything wrong was her undoing imo & why she was made an example of. Had she been charged, the exchange with Brunt would have been used as further evidence against her.

But she wasn't charged, she wasn't even investigated.  She was an innocent woman who had very strong views on the McCann case. Just wtf Martin Brunt thought he was doing is beyond me. He must feel such a fool now at being used as a tool by supporters.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2018, 06:03:24 PM
Anyone who contacts someone’s place of work out of spite is to be comdemned utterly, and as I’m sure you are already aware this has also happened to McCann supporters.  Don’t ask for cites as I’m not prepared to drag up anciemt history and would have to name names.  I’m sure you know I’m right however.  It’s all incredibly childish behaviour IMO.

I must say I agree totally with you Alf, it is extremely childish.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2018, 06:05:10 PM
IMO if Brenda had been contrite & apologised (on camera at the time)  for any hurt her words may have caused to the McCanns or other individuals then it is probable she would not have been the subject of rolling footage. Her defiant attitude  in appearing to not accept she had done anything wrong was her undoing imo & why she was made an example of. Had she been charged, the exchange with Brunt would have been used as further evidence against her.

If Brunt had approached me he would have gotten his microphone shoved down his throat.  But then he only approaches soft targets.  Sky has quite the reputation for bullying reporters like Alex Crawford and Lisa Holland.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 06:08:25 PM
Can you cite this hate?

I read Buzzfeed the deleted tweets of .........then her user name.
I "hate" cruelty, liars,those who profit from an others tragedy, ergo my "hate for Kate and "Gerry" is justified.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 06:09:43 PM
I must say I agree totally with you Alf, it is extremely childish.

I don’t think anyone would disagree.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 06:09:52 PM


As an aside ... she had 'friends' on twitter.  Did any perhaps contact her either with support when she was 'outed' or condemnation for not making a better case?
Or was this fragile and perhaps desperately lonely woman ignored.

Did her "friends" on twitter know who she was (what her name was and where she lived) and I remember reading that she didn't read her twitter from the day Martin Brunt visited her so how would they get in touch with her?

Could you let me know how they could have done so please Brietta.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:22:32 PM
I don’t think anyone would disagree.
Brenda’s mistake was getting swept along on a twitter tidal wave of childish spite, where she seemed rather gleeful at the prospect of someone’s employer being contacted.  What turns perfectly nice respectable people into such nasty online personas?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 06:26:24 PM
Brenda’s mistake was getting swept along on a twitter tidal wave of childish spite, where she seemed rather gleeful at the prospect of someone’s employer being contacted.  What turns perfectly nice respectable people into such nasty online personas?

So do you believe the person that threatened to contact Gartnavel Hospital and attempt to ruin a young girl’s career should have been doorstepped too ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 21, 2018, 06:32:43 PM
I read Buzzfeed the deleted tweets of .........then her user name.
I "hate" cruelty, liars,those who profit from an others tragedy, ergo my "hate for Kate and "Gerry" is justified.

Did you notice the quotation marks?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:33:18 PM
So do you believe the person that threatened to contact Gartnavel Hospital and attempt to ruin a young girl’s career should have been doorstepped too ?
No, I think they should have been put in stocks and had rotten fruit thrown at them.  That’d learn ‘em!!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 06:36:01 PM
No, I think they should have been put in stocks and had rotten fruit thrown at them.  That’d learn ‘em!!

But the most Brenda seems to have done proactively is laugh at another tweeters outing and she was doorstepped. Surely actually outing, wrongly, a young professional and perhaps ruining her career deserves at least the same treatment?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:37:04 PM
But the most Brenda seems to have done proactively is laugh at another tweeters outing and she was doorstepped. Surely actually outing, wrongly, a young professional and perhaps ruining her career deserves at least the same treatment?
If you say so.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 06:38:35 PM
Did you notice the quotation marks?

Yes.
The article was quite supportive of Brenda.
Do you not find her obsessive tweeting and "hatred" of the McCanns strange, not criminal perhaps  but worrying.if it was directed at one of your family?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 06:46:58 PM
If you say so.

You really don’t want to answer do you ? I can understand why.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:48:21 PM
“To Kate and Gerry, you will be hated by millions for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!” - Brenda Leyland.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 06:50:48 PM
“To Kate and Gerry, you will be hated by millions for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!” - Brenda Leyland.

Did they read it ? Did that poor physiotherapist from Gartnavel do anything to deserve having her employers contacted by some deranged supporter?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:51:15 PM
You really don’t want to answer do you ? I can understand why.
If a reporter wants to doorstep some spiteful bitch to ask her why she tried to get someone the sack for supporting the McCanns then I really don’t have a problem with it. Is that frank and fulsome enough for you?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:53:16 PM
Did they read it ? Did that poor physiotherapist from Gartnavel do anything to deserve having her employers contacted by some deranged supporter?
Deflection, deflection, deflection.  Slarti asked for examples of Brenda’s hate as if it was all a figment of the imagination.  The post outlines very well the depth of her hatred, it’s an utterly horrible tweet, any decent person would say so.  Harping on about other hateful actions by other hateful people cannot detract from that fact.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2018, 06:53:43 PM
Yes.
The article was quite supportive of Brenda.
Do you not find her obsessive tweeting and "hatred" of the McCanns strange, not criminal perhaps  but worrying.if it was directed at one of your family?

I can understand it, it's how social media platforms like Twitter operate. Many users on twitter are anonymous and that adds to the attraction for some people. Any twitter user can block accounts which are abusive and that's what makes it workable.  If you're not on twitter you cannot be sent abusive messages. The hashtag #McCann name has become synonymous with the Maddie case, it's what Twitter users use to get their comments noticed by anyone remotely interested in the investigation.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 06:54:47 PM
If a reporter wants to doorstep some spiteful bitch to ask her why she tried to get someone the sack for supporting the McCanns then I really don’t have a problem with it. Is that frank and fulsome enough for you?

For not supporting the McCanns.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 06:55:24 PM
I have found a post on here where supporters discussing finding Brenda on twitter
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6144.195

Look at their mature sensible language..not.  How nasty they were to her.

Some of the tweets from the link.

> TrulyJudy73 to @sweepyface
Are you alright in your bonce Sweepy? I have never used AB Mash nor would I ever. Sad life stalking the wrong person

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1
is that her name? PM me how you know this will you Tony?

--> TrulyJudy73 to @alfibab3 @WAWinter1 @sweepyface
the name rings a bell with me but for why I just am trying hard to recall

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3
@sweepyface <<< you are right. I see her fb page! Same boxer dog & she's more of a dog herself!

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
ugh! She is one ugly Mama

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
here she is on some fb page:https://t.co/IZAREOVYBR #McCann. Take a look at the boxer!

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
yes that Brenda is sweepyface & lives too close to the #McCann s for my comfort tbh.

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
rough looking isn't she?

--> TrulyJudy73 to @alfibab3 @WAWinter1 @sweepyface
It is her Jasmine so look at other tweets.

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @Josephodriscoll
I should have said she wruff! She only has doggies for companions & cruelly dresses them up like reindeer
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 06:56:42 PM
Did her "friends" on twitter know who she was (what her name was and where she lived) and I remember reading that she didn't read her twitter from the day Martin Brunt visited her so how would they get in touch with her?

Could you let me know how they could have done so please Brietta.

The top sceptic troll on twitter posted a message of condolence on Brenda's son's Facebook page just a few hours (the Sunday) after he announced her passing,  He lives in USA, as does the troll. Is that proof enough some sceptics knew exactly who Brenda was?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 06:58:38 PM
I have found a post on here where supporters discussing finding Brenda on twitter
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6144.195

Look at their mature sensible language..not.  How nasty they were to her.

Some of the tweets from the link.

> TrulyJudy73 to @sweepyface
Are you alright in your bonce Sweepy? I have never used AB Mash nor would I ever. Sad life stalking the wrong person

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1
is that her name? PM me how you know this will you Tony?

--> TrulyJudy73 to @alfibab3 @WAWinter1 @sweepyface
the name rings a bell with me but for why I just am trying hard to recall

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3
@sweepyface <<< you are right. I see her fb page! Same boxer dog & she's more of a dog herself!

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
ugh! She is one ugly Mama

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
here she is on some fb page:https://t.co/IZAREOVYBR #McCann. Take a look at the boxer!

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
yes that Brenda is sweepyface & lives too close to the #McCann s for my comfort tbh.

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @alfibab3 @sweepyface
rough looking isn't she?

--> TrulyJudy73 to @alfibab3 @WAWinter1 @sweepyface
It is her Jasmine so look at other tweets.

--> TrulyJudy73 to @WAWinter1 @Josephodriscoll
I should have said she wruff! She only has doggies for companions & cruelly dresses them up like reindeer



Tolerant lot, weren't they   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 21, 2018, 06:58:51 PM
Did her "friends" on twitter know who she was (what her name was and where she lived) and I remember reading that she didn't read her twitter from the day Martin Brunt visited her so how would they get in touch with her?

Could you let me know how they could have done so please Brietta.

      "On Twitter she uses the name Sweepy face ..." Martin Brunt ~ from the Sky News report.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:59:13 PM
The moral of the story is - if you would feel ashamed of having your nasty, spiteful vindictive tweets splashed across the front pages of the Daily Mail or broadcast on Sky, probably best not to make them in the first place.  If you are not able to justify your actions or unable to take pride in the fact that you tried to get someone the sack for supporting (or tweeting against) the McCanns, don’t do it in the first place. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 06:59:56 PM
For not supporting the McCanns.
For ANY REASON.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 07:01:15 PM
The top sceptic troll on twitter posted a message of condolence on Brenda's son's Facebook page just a few hours (the Sunday) after he announced her passing,  He lives in USA, as does the troll. Is that proof enough some sceptics knew exactly who Brenda was?

I don't know who the top sceptic troll is and no I didn't know he/she had left a message on Brenda's son's page.  I have never seen it. So do we know if she knew Brenda? That I know nothing about and if she knew Brenda then she should have got in touch with her.

As a matter on interest how do you know Erngath?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:01:42 PM
The moral of the story is - if you would feel ashamed of having your nasty, spiteful vindictive tweets splashed across the front pages of the Daily Mail or broadcast on Sky, probably best not to make them in the first place.  If you are not to justify your actions or unable to take pride in the fact that you tried to get someone the sack for supporting the McCanns, don’t do it in the first place.

Would you apply that same advise to the dossier Compiler in Chief ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 07:03:21 PM
I can understand it, it's how social media like Twitter operates. Many users on twitter are anonymous and that adds to the attraction for some people. Any twitter user can block accounts which are abusive and that's what makes it workable.

Perhaps there are other subjects which seem to attract such an obsession and such strong " hatred " as the tragedy of Madeleine's disappearance but I'm not aware of them.
My interest first and foremost has always been In the tragic disappearance of a little child, but why people have such a strong antipathy to her family has always puzzled me.
I didn't use the word hate but sometimes hatred does seem to be there.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Would you apply that same advise to the dossier Compiler in Chief ?
What spiteful vindictive tweets did they make?  Whose employer did they contact?  Was their name splashed all over the media?  I bet you wish it had been.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 07:04:57 PM
For ANY REASON.

It was me she was targeting. The poor girl was just unfortunate to have the same name as me.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:05:21 PM
“Indeed “hate” is a powerful emotion, it is a compliment to Maddie that we “hate” her parents who betrayed her” - Brenda Leyland.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:07:11 PM
What spiteful vindictive tweets did they make?  Whose employer did they contact?  Was their name splashed all over the media?  I bet you wish it had been.

In the interest of balance, it would have been reasonable for thoss papers who reported on the incident to name the compiler.
Its very unlikely that the name would have meant anything to me, but it would have to some people.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:10:17 PM
I find hate an overrated emotion that gnaws away at ones inner self.
I suggest anger management  classes for those so afflicted.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:12:01 PM
It was me she was targeting. The poor girl was just unfortunate to have the same name as me.
Out of interest how do you know this?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 07:14:51 PM
Out of interest how do you know this?

Because the supporter tweeted the details of, she thought, my job and workplace.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:16:30 PM
Because the supporter tweeted the details of, she thought, my job and workplace.
But how do you know they contacted “the poor girl”’s employer?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 07:18:41 PM
“To Kate and Gerry, you will be hated by millions for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!” - Brenda Leyland.


well i dont have a problem with that

If that is what B L thought of the mcns so be it  - it was her prerogative to do so imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
I find hate an overrated emotion that gnaws away at ones inner self.
I suggest anger management  classes for those so afflicted.
Sadly it’s too late to suggest it to Brenda, perhaps if she had taken your advice before joining twitter she’d still be alive today.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:20:22 PM

well i dont have a problem with that

If that is what B L thought of the mcns so be it  - it was her prerogative to do so imo
I’m sure you don’t have a problem with it, I posted it as an example of Brenda’s hatred, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you agreed with it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 07:21:12 PM
Because the supporter tweeted the details of, she thought, my job and workplace.

I believe some obsessives have visited the hospital where Gerry McCann works, have visited the farm where Madeleine used to go with her mother, have shadowed him at the Houses of Parliament, have photographed Magpreleines siblings and put those photos on the internet.
None of this, nor what happened to you is acceptable.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 07:23:28 PM
I don't know who the top sceptic troll is and no I didn't know he/she had left a message on Brenda's son's page.  I have never seen it. So do we know if she knew Brenda? That I know nothing about and if she knew Brenda then she should have got in touch with her.

As a matter on interest how do you know Erngath?

Top sceptic troll makes it her business to know people's real-life identities & yes, Top Troll knew Brenda.

Why are you so interested about who I am or where I may know people from?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:24:07 PM
I believe some obsessives have visited the hospital where Gerry McCann works, have visited the farm where Madeleine used to go with her mother, have shadowed him at the Houses of Parliament, have photographed Magpreleines siblings and put those photos on the internet.
None of this, nor what happened to you is acceptable.
Didn’t someone recently tweet the McCanns whereabouts in a restaurant? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:24:11 PM
Some obsessive even visit PDL and take lots of photos and measurements around 5A
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 07:26:20 PM
      "On Twitter she uses the name Sweepy face ..." Martin Brunt ~ from the Sky News report.

So was her name Brenda Leyland Sweepy Face or was her name hidden and not apparent on twitter. Looking at the tweets I have posted earlier it would appear it was the latter Brietta.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 07:27:06 PM
Some obsessive even visit PDL and take lots of photos and measurements around 5A
Sounds like something to do one day.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:28:50 PM
Sounds like something to do one day.

Don't do it. No good can come of it
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 21, 2018, 07:36:46 PM
I’m sure you don’t have a problem with it, I posted it as an example of Brenda’s hatred, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you agreed with it.

B L was allowed her opinion of the mcns...if she hated them that is not a crime.

As for me agreeing with it - the mcns are absolutely  nothing to me.

LOL i wouldn't even waste my hate on them.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Lace on August 21, 2018, 07:39:15 PM
A few points Lace regarding your post. 

1)the dossier compiler/s did what they thought was right - How would you know if you were not at least aware of the dossier prior to it going to Sky etc.

2) Martin Brunt then [knowing who BL was as she had put her name on the internet]  - NO her name was not "all on the internet" in connection with sweepyface. It took a few other supporters to find out who she is and I have read the thread on how they found her. Martin Brunt was given her full name and that she lived in Leicester(shire)

3) Now I am sorry but journalists confront people in this way all the time,  they don't go out and take their life over it.  - They may confont people all the time but generally not right outside their house and give it a full rolling news every 30 minutes or so, plus the other media screaming TROLL at Brenda Leyland.

4) What about the boy who tweeted he was going to kill?  His fellow pupils ignored it thinking he was just a weirdo,  he went on to kill how do you think those children feel?   - So you think going to the media would save a person's life or wouldn't it be better to go straight to the police and bypass the outing of the person who made the tweets until after they were arrested.

5) BL decided to take her own life,  she had attempted it before,  no one is to blame IMO - you would say that wouldn't you.

I will answer you using the number for each question.

1.   I know as I watched the video of the person who handed the dossier in,  she said she couldn't live with herself if she hadn't of acted.   Didn't you see the video?

2.  BL was tweeting Sky news she wanted them to investigate her ideas of what happened to Madeleine,  did she use Sweepyface when she tweeted Sky news?

3.  It was up to Sky news whether they used the footage Martin Brunt took.

4.  I believe the dossier was taken to the Police.

5.  No one is to blame are the words of the coroner in summing up the death of BL.



snipped -   Brunt spoke to Brenda on the Wednesday night and explained what they would be doing. When asked by the coroner he said he hadn't detected anything in her voice at all. In the conversation she had said " Oh, I have thought about ending it all. But I am feeling better, I have spoken to my son in LA." There was a 10 minute conversation. Brunt said they wouldn't name her or identify the village. Martin Brunt had no serious concern about her (from her voice). She said it was a pleasure to meet you.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 07:42:22 PM
Top sceptic troll makes it her business to know people's real-life identities & yes, Top Troll knew Brenda.

Why are you so interested about who I am or where I may know people from?

I didn't ask you Misty I asked Erngath and that was only because I hadn't heard of it before. I don't even know who this top troll is. I don't care who you or erngath is to be fair. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 07:42:36 PM
I believe some obsessives have visited the hospital where Gerry McCann works, have visited the farm where Madeleine used to go with her mother, have shadowed him at the Houses of Parliament, have photographed Magpreleines siblings and put those photos on the internet.
None of this, nor what happened to you is acceptable.

The case seems to have attracted some people who are prone to becoming obsessed and emotionally involved. I can see similarities with those who become obsessed with pop stars or royalty. The difference lies in the emotional reaction; extreme adulation v extreme dislike.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:47:23 PM
I will answer you using the number for each question.

1.   I know as I watched the video of the person who handed the dossier in,  she said she couldn't live with herself if she hadn't of acted.  Didn't you see the video?

2.  BL was tweeting Sky news she wanted them to investigate her ideas of what happened to Madeleine,  did she use Sweepyface when she tweeted Sky news?

3.  It was up to Sky news whether they used the footage Martin Brunt took.

4.  I believe the dossier was taken to the Police.

5.  No one is to blame are the words of the coroner in summing up the death of BL.



snipped -   Brunt spoke to Brenda on the Wednesday night and explained what they would be doing. When asked by the coroner he said he hadn't detected anything in her voice at all. In the conversation she had said " Oh, I have thought about ending it all. But I am feeling better, I have spoken to my son in LA." There was a 10 minute conversation. Brunt said they wouldn't name her or identify the village. Martin Brunt had no serious concern about her (from her voice). She said it was a pleasure to meet you.

No, where can this video be viewed
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 07:48:19 PM
I didn't ask you Misty I asked Erngath and that was only because I hadn't heard of it before. I don't even know who this top troll is. I don't care who you or erngath is to be fair.

I've never heard of this person either, Sunny. Then again I've never been interested in this 'who's who' game. I'm more interested in researching 'what's what'.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Some obsessive even visit PDL and take lots of photos and measurements around 5A


Please note that I accepted Faithlillys post as being true.
Didn't ask for a cite.
No reason to disbelieve her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 07:50:15 PM
But how do you know they contacted “the poor girl”’s employer?

Why would the supporter threaten if they weren’t going to follow through ? What would they have to gain ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 21, 2018, 07:51:03 PM

Please note that I accepted Faithlillys post as being true.
Didn't ask for a cite.
No reason to disbelieve her.

Good for you. What relevance does that have to my post that you quoted ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 07:51:27 PM
B L was allowed her opinion of the mcns...if she hated them that is not a crime.

As for me agreeing with it - the mcns are absolutely  nothing to me.

LOL i wouldn't even waste my hate on them.

So you reserve hate for whom?
Best not to have hate for anyone.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 07:52:00 PM
B L was allowed her opinion of the mcns...if she hated them that is not a crime.

As for me agreeing with it - the mcns are absolutely  nothing to me.

LOL i wouldn't even waste my hate on them.
Did I say she wasn’t allowed an opinon? No.  Did I say her hate was a crime?  No.  The McCanns are clearly beneath your contempt, thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 07:56:26 PM
Did I say she wasn’t allowed an opinon? No.  Did I say her hate was a crime?  No.  The McCanns are clearly beneath your contempt, thanks for clarifying.
Something seen clearly shouldn't need clarifying.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 07:57:06 PM

Please note that I accepted Faithlillys post as being true.
Didn't ask for a cite.
No reason to disbelieve her.

Perhaps because you know what I said is true ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 21, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
I will answer you using the number for each question.

1.   I know as I watched the video of the person who handed the dossier in,  she said she couldn't live with herself if she hadn't of acted.   Didn't you see the video? - OK yes I see what you mean Lace

2.  BL was tweeting Sky news she wanted them to investigate her ideas of what happened to Madeleine,  did she use Sweepyface when she tweeted Sky news? - She didn't tweet using her name Brenda Leyland. Martin Brunt was given that by someone else.

3.  It was up to Sky news whether they used the footage Martin Brunt took. - True.

4.  I believe the dossier was taken to the Police. - That doesn't answer my question regarding your quote about the boy tweeting about killing people at all.  Any sensible person would not take it to the media they would simply take it to the police and quickly at that.

5.  No one is to blame are the words of the coroner in summing up the death of BL. - That is a matter of opinion IMO.



snipped -   Brunt spoke to Brenda on the Wednesday night and explained what they would be doing. When asked by the coroner he said he hadn't detected anything in her voice at all. In the conversation she had said " Oh, I have thought about ending it all. But I am feeling better, I have spoken to my son in LA." There was a 10 minute conversation. Brunt said they wouldn't name her or identify the village. Martin Brunt had no serious concern about her (from her voice). She said it was a pleasure to meet you.

Was the last paragraph to show that Brenda was fine about it? She may have expected the usual rogue trader type exposure not the rolling news item regularly all day on Sky followed by the Daily Mail etc all calling her a troll some evil troll, giving her name and village out and interviewing her friends etc and this going on solid for 3 days.   Is it any wonder she cracked?

Video of dossier representative
https://news.sky.com/story/evil-trolls-in-hate-campaign-against-mccanns-10387832
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 07:59:11 PM
Perhaps because you know what I said is true ?

I accept it as true.
Why would I know it to be true?
I hope you are not suggesting that I have any reason to KNOW it is true??

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 08:02:30 PM
I accept it as true.
I just would like that trust to be reciprocated.
Trust would be earned.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 08:03:59 PM
Trust would be earned.

Fortunately in real life my trust in those I know has always been well deserved.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 08:53:49 PM
Why would the supporter threaten if they weren’t going to follow through ? What would they have to gain ?
Are you suggesting that all threats made on twitter are carried through?  Then no wonder the dossier compilers had cause for concern!  I take it you are only speculating that this”poor girl’s” employer was contacted then...?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 09:09:02 PM
Are you suggesting that all threats made on twitter are carried through?  Then no wonder the dossier compilers had cause for concern!  I take it you are only speculating that this”poor girl’s” employer was contacted then...?

Why would they threaten ? To intimidate? Why ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2018, 09:50:02 PM
Why would they threaten ? To intimidate? Why ?

They clearly had not thought it through very well.
In the real world one of two things would happen.
Any company fielding such a letter or phone call would pass it to the police were a name were given [ho ho]
or; chuck it in the bin/forget it if no name were given.
"They" [whomsoever "they" are] appear to have delusions of grandeur.
One concludes they only prepared to deal with those who are vulnerable.
Sez it all really.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 09:53:28 PM
Was the last paragraph to show that Brenda was fine about it? She may have expected the usual rogue trader type exposure not the rolling news item regularly all day on Sky followed by the Daily Mail etc all calling her a troll some evil troll, giving her name and village out and interviewing her friends etc and this going on solid for 3 days.   Is it any wonder she cracked?

Video of dossier representative
https://news.sky.com/story/evil-trolls-in-hate-campaign-against-mccanns-10387832

I remember watching throughout the day as the item about Brenda was continually broadcast and dissected in great detail by the usual commentators. It was appalling to watch if I'm honest, I really felt for her.  Garbage television at its worst IMO, it had the whiff of The News of the World about it.  I wouldn't be in the least surprised if the former editor Rebekah Brooks had her grubby paws all over it too, her connections with the McCanns are well known.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rebekah-brooks-accused-of-bullying-government-over-mccanns-7737611.html
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2018, 10:00:18 PM
Are you suggesting that all threats made on twitter are carried through?  Then no wonder the dossier compilers had cause for concern!  I take it you are only speculating that this”poor girl’s” employer was contacted then...?


Rob said asking questions is goading.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 10:01:10 PM
They clearly had not thought it through very well.
In the real world one of two things would happen.
Any company fielding such a letter or phone call would pass it to the police were a name were given [ho ho]
or; chuck it in the bin/forget it if no name were given.
"They" [whomsoever "they" are] appear to have delusions of grandeur.
One concludes they only prepared to deal with those who are vulnerable.
Sez it all really.

There was allegedly an attempt to discredit/censor Enid O'Dowd by reporting her to her Professional body;

My report upset an unknown McCann supporter so much that he or she complained to my professional body, the ICEAW (Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales). 

 This happened in November 2012 but I only learned of it recently when by chance I came across a post which the person concerned had made on the Internet.

 I was never contacted as the complaint did not meet the standards required by the ICEAW to warrant asking to hear my side of the story. The ICEAW reply to the complainant included the sentence:

‘Mrs O'Dowd is entitled to her opinions and views and freedom of speech’. 
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/106feb16/Enid_O_Dowd_01_02_2016.htm
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:05:08 PM

Rob said asking questions is goading.
Cite please
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 10:09:25 PM
I remember watching throughout the day as the item about Brenda was continually broadcast and dissected in great detail by the usual commentators. It was appalling to watch if I'm honest, I really felt for her.  Garbage television at its worst IMO, it had the whiff of The News of the World about it.  I wouldn't be in the least surprised if the former editor Rebekah Brooks had her grubby paws all over it too, her connections with the McCanns are well known.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rebekah-brooks-accused-of-bullying-government-over-mccanns-7737611.html

Is there a cite for the former editor Rebekah Brooks having her grubby paws all over it it too, or are you just allowed to say that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 21, 2018, 10:13:43 PM
Is there a cite for the former editor Rebekah Brooks having her grubby paws all over it it too, or are you just allowed to say that?

“I wouldn’t be in the least surprised....”
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:18:59 PM
Is there a cite for the former editor Rebekah Brooks having her grubby paws all over it it too, or are you just allowed to say that?
"I wouldn't be surprised ...." is a statement of opinion.  No cite is required.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2018, 10:22:37 PM
Cite please

Re: "Start by Asking Yourself What is a Supporter and Work on from There”
« Reply #330 on: Today at 09:41:31 PM »
Quote
Quote from: slartibartfast on Today at 09:34:51 PM
It’s a question?


You said
"Bordering on libel, bordering on goading, I think I was just letting everyone know they were bordering on goading.
Goading could be via questions, we had established that.

 8**8:/:
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 10:23:44 PM
Why would they threaten ? To intimidate? Why ?
You’d have to ask the threateners why they do it, but yes, to intimidate I would imagine. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:27:44 PM
Re: "Start by Asking Yourself What is a Supporter and Work on from There”
« Reply #330 on: Today at 09:41:31 PM »
Quote
Quote from: slartibartfast on Today at 09:34:51 PM
It’s a question?


You said
"Bordering on libel, bordering on goading, I think I was just letting everyone know they were bordering on goading.
Goading could be via questions, we had established that.

 8**8:/:
"Goading could be via questions,"  is not the same as "Rob said asking questions is goading".
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 10:34:09 PM
There was allegedly an attempt to discredit/censor Enid O'Dowd by reporting her to her Professional body;

My report upset an unknown McCann supporter so much that he or she complained to my professional body, the ICEAW (Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales). 

 This happened in November 2012 but I only learned of it recently when by chance I came across a post which the person concerned had made on the Internet.

 I was never contacted as the complaint did not meet the standards required by the ICEAW to warrant asking to hear my side of the story. The ICEAW reply to the complainant included the sentence:

‘Mrs O'Dowd is entitled to her opinions and views and freedom of speech’. 
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/106feb16/Enid_O_Dowd_01_02_2016.htm

Didn’t Gerry contact the head of Yorkshire police to complain about Martin Grime ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 10:35:27 PM
You’d have to ask the threateners why they do it, but yes, to intimidate I would imagine.

So supporters go on Twitter to intimidate sceptics to do what, shut up ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2018, 10:35:53 PM
Is there a cite for the former editor Rebekah Brooks having her grubby paws all over it it too, or are you just allowed to say that?

You could read pages 94 to 105 of the official Leveson transcript of Mrs Brooks' evidence then draw your own conclusion.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
Didn’t Gerry contact the head of Yorkshire police to complain about Martin Grime ?
Was that just a random question?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2018, 10:40:12 PM
"Goading could be via questions,"  is not the same as "Rob said asking questions is goading".


It reads that way!  or are you just concerning yourself with questions being asked by non supporters?

Perhaps you could avail where a question is goading and where it isn't- any example would suffice.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 10:45:22 PM
Didn’t Gerry contact the head of Yorkshire police to complain about Martin Grime ?

He did contact him, but we weren't told why. Perhaps he wanted to thank him for sending his best dogs and their handler to help the investigation.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 10:46:42 PM
Didn’t Gerry contact the head of Yorkshire police to complain about Martin Grime ?

Martin Grime wasn't working for SYP on 16/8/2007; he'd already retired.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 10:49:18 PM
So supporters go on Twitter to intimidate sceptics to do what, shut up ?
I have no idea if they ALL do, but it is certainly not a one way street with all the dozens of poor honest decent little sceptics being intimidated and threatened by a handful of supporters if that’s what you’re suggesting.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:50:29 PM

It reads that way!  or are you just concerning yourself with questions being asked by non supporters?

Perhaps you could avail where a question is goading and where it isn't- any example would suffice.
"I'm about to go out".  Here is an example "are you just concerning yourself with questions being asked by non supporters?"  You are questioning me whether I'm biased and hence not moderating fairly (hence goading).  I have no firm concepts of who is a supporter or non supporter.  I have a feeling most of your posts tend to be non-supporting.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 10:52:51 PM
Martin Grime wasn't working for SYP on 16/8/2007; he'd already retired.

From Martin Grime’s rogatory.


'At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case''
I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.’
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 10:54:54 PM
I have no idea if they ALL do, but it is certainly not a one way street with all the dozens of poor honest decent little sceptics being intimidated and threatened by a handful of supporters if that’s what you’re suggesting.

That didn’t answer my question.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2018, 10:57:04 PM
Martin Grime wasn't working for SYP on 16/8/2007; he'd already retired.

Why 16th August? Where is that recorded?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 21, 2018, 10:58:31 PM
From Martin Grime’s rogatory.


'At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case''
I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.’
So was that really a "yes" then? 
At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case?  "YES"
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 10:59:01 PM
That didn’t answer my question.
How do you expect me, someone who doesn’t take part in twitter wars, to speak on behalf of supporters that do, pray tell me?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 21, 2018, 10:59:32 PM
I think we all should take responsibility for what we post and be prepared to justify it if necessary... It's just to easy to post anonymous abuse online.
Brenda had every right to hate the McCann's just as, we all have the right to hate anyone or any group... The problem arises when and how that hatred is expressed.

What Brenda did may not have been illegal but perhaps it should be... And if the police don't take action it's a normal procedure to take a greivance to the newspapers to highlight  the issue and get the law changed... I see a, lot of sympathy  for Brenda but I have far greater sympathy  for her target.... Far more sympathy for the McCanns
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 11:01:04 PM
From Martin Grime’s rogatory.


'At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case''
I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.’

Screenshot of the 2 calls made by Gerry on 16/8/07. Grime had retired by then so Hughes was no longer his supervisor. As Grime was a PC, there would have been other people below Hughes in the chain of command.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:04:55 PM
How do you expect me, someone who doesn’t take part in twitter wars, to speak on behalf of supporters that do, pray tell me?

Take a wild guess.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 11:11:20 PM
Take a wild guess.
It seems you’ve already decided what the answer is and want me to say it.  OK then.  Here’s a wild guess: All McCann supporters on twitter are only there to threaten poor little honest decent sceptics into silence, not for any other reason.  All they do all day long is threaten to call up sceptics employers to try and get them the sack.  If it’s not that, then they are threatening to go round to the poor little sceptics’ houses, smash down their front doors and take a hammer to their laptops.  Do you need cites for this, or are you satisfied with my answer? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2018, 11:14:43 PM
I think we all should take responsibility for what we post and be prepared to justify it if necessary... It's just to easy to post anonymous abuse online.
Brenda had every right to hate the McCann's just as, we all have the right to hate anyone or any group... The problem arises when and how that hatred is expressed.

What Brenda did may not have been illegal but perhaps it should be... And if the police don't take action it's a normal procedure to take a greivance to the newspapers to highlight  the issue and get the law changed... I see a, lot of sympathy  for Brenda but I have far greater sympathy  for her target.... Far more sympathy for the McCanns

Perhaps it should be against the law to leave your children alone every night to be 'abducted'. I do not have sympathy for the McCanns as their behaviour before, during and after their daughters disappearance was disgraceful imo. 

They have moved on with their lives despite their selfish behaviour. I feel sorry for Madeleine and all the other victims.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 21, 2018, 11:20:30 PM

Perhaps it should be against the law to leave your children alone every night to be 'abducted'. I do not have sympathy for the McCanns as their behaviour before, during and after their daughters disappearance was disgraceful imo. 

They have moved on with their lives despite their selfish behaviour. I feel sorry for Madeleine and all the other victims.

That's up to you... As I said.. My sympathies lie with the McCanns and I have explained  why. How many suicides, are we seeing from people who are victims of online abuse.. That's why it needs to be addressed and I support those who compiled the dossier and brought the abuse to light
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:22:35 PM
It seems you’ve already decided what the answer is and want me to say it.  OK then.  Here’s a wild guess: All McCann supporters on twitter are only there to threaten poor little honest decent sceptics into silence, not for any other reason.  All they do all day long is threaten to call up sceptics employers to try and get them the sack.  If it’s not that, then they are threatening to go round to the poor little sceptics’ houses, smash down their front doors and take a hammer to their laptops.  Do you need cites for this, or are you satisfied with my answer?

Yes, thank you.

So supporters use threats of exposure to intimidate sceptics into silence.

My what a murky world you supporters must inhabit.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 21, 2018, 11:24:24 PM
As regards.. Due process... Isnnt that exactly what BL and others, were denying the McCanns
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 21, 2018, 11:27:35 PM
That's up to you... As I said.. My sympathies lie with the McCanns and I have explained  why. How many suicides, are we seeing from people who are victims of online abuse.. That's why it needs to be addressed and I support those who compiled the dossier and brought the abuse to light


This alleged abuse had no impact on the McCanns as they didn't know about it as they don't do social media...are you suggesting supporters were so upset by the alledged abuse that they may have commited suicide?  how strange.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 21, 2018, 11:27:56 PM
Yes, thank you.

So supporters use threats of exposure to intimidate sceptics into silence.

My what a murky world you supporters must inhabit.
Indeed we do, we are a nest of Gollum-like creatures who live together in a stinky cave full of our own excrement, unlike sceptics who are so decent, so kind, so empathetic, so unthreatening, all these  endearing traits are there to be seen on the #mccann tag, with delightful comments like the ones I have already highlighted from Brenda herself, whose tweets are perfect examples of kindness, empathy and decency.   
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 11:28:51 PM
Is there a cite for the former editor Rebekah Brooks having her grubby paws all over it it too, or are you just allowed to say that?

I didn't say she had, I said I wouldn't be surprised if she had (given her history with the McCann case).
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 21, 2018, 11:29:58 PM

This alleged abuse had no impact on the McCanns as they didn't know about it as they don't do social media...are you suggesting supporters were so upset by the alledged abuse that they may have commited suicide?  how strange.

I don't think you should make little of those driven to suicide by online abuse... That's most unkind... I believe  the abusive posts did affect the mccanns
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 11:34:14 PM
I didn't say she had, I said I wouldn't be surprised if she had (given her history with the McCann case).

So no cite necessary, just I wouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 11:36:03 PM
So was that really a "yes" then? 
At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case?  "YES"

That's pretty laughable, the suspect contacting the police to complain about the investigation.  This just gets more crazy by the day.  Was Gerry an expert dog handler then too?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 11:39:02 PM
I think we all should take responsibility for what we post and be prepared to justify it if necessary... It's just to easy to post anonymous abuse online.
Brenda had every right to hate the McCann's just as, we all have the right to hate anyone or any group... The problem arises when and how that hatred is expressed.

What Brenda did may not have been illegal but perhaps it should be... And if the police don't take action it's a normal procedure to take a greivance to the newspapers to highlight  the issue and get the law changed... I see a, lot of sympathy  for Brenda but I have far greater sympathy  for her target.... Far more sympathy for the McCanns

A good post davel.  I have more sympathy for Brenda though given that she died unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 21, 2018, 11:40:04 PM
That's pretty laughable, the suspect contacting the police to complain about the investigation.  This just gets more crazy by the day.  Was Gerry an expert dog handler then too?

I think as the PJ were completely misunderstanding  the alerts it was reasonable for Gerry to get advice from those who undrstood
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2018, 11:41:22 PM
Indeed we do, we are a nest of Gollum-like creatures who live together in a stinky cave full of our own excrement, unlike sceptics who are so decent, so kind, so empathetic, so unthreatening, all these  endearing traits are there to be seen on the #mccann tag, with delightful comments like the ones I have already highlighted from Brenda herself, whose tweets are perfect examples of kindness, empathy and decency.

My observation is that you are collectively more like the Yitai.
Look it up in the front of "Fate Is The Hunter" by Ernest Gann.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 11:42:07 PM
Indeed we do, we are a nest of Gollum-like creatures who live together in a stinky cave full of our own excrement, unlike sceptics who are so decent, so kind, so empathetic, so unthreatening, all these  endearing traits are there to be seen on the #mccann tag, with delightful comments like the ones I have already highlighted from Brenda herself, whose tweets are perfect examples of kindness, empathy and decency.

Faithlilly clearly hasn't followed Smiffy to his latest haunt........
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 21, 2018, 11:46:15 PM
A good post davel.  I have more sympathy for Brenda though given that she died unnecessarily.

All suicides are unnecessary.
Completely tragic.
I cannot imagine the pain of the family left behind.
Accidents and illness resulting in death, at least can be accepted but to know that a loved family member has chosen to take their own life must be a nightmare for their loved ones.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 21, 2018, 11:46:58 PM
As regards.. Due process... Isnnt that exactly what BL and others, were denying the McCanns

Actually I think they were hoping for due process, not denying it?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:51:11 PM
I think as the PJ were completely misunderstanding  the alerts it was reasonable for Gerry to get advice from those who undrstood

So was Meredith Hughes an expert dog handler ? Or was Gerry actually complaining about one of his employees ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:51:52 PM
Faithlilly clearly hasn't followed Smiffy to his latest haunt........

Really ? I’m sure you can do better than that Misty.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 11:53:32 PM
So was Meredith Hughes an expert dog handler ? Or was Gerry actually complaining about one of his employees ?

Do you have a cite for Gerry making a complaint during the 2 telephone conversations please?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:54:00 PM
All suicides are unnecessary.
Completely tragic.
I cannot imagine the pain of the family left behind.
Accidents and illness resulting in death, at least can be accepted but to know that a loved family member has chosen to take their own life must be a nightmare for their loved ones.

What do you think Brenda’s sons think of the dossier compilers and supporters faux sympathy? I can just imagine the look of disgust on their faces.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 21, 2018, 11:55:13 PM
Do you have a cite for Gerry making a complaint during the 2 telephone conversations please?

What do you think he was talking about Misty ? Congratulating him on his wonderful dogs ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 21, 2018, 11:59:49 PM
What do you think he was talking about Misty ? Congratulating him on his wonderful dogs ?

Do you have a cite or not?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 01:13:08 AM


He was doing his job, John,


Oh fgs. - you think that ok then to harass someone to imo death.

What about GA then - he was only doing his ...job.

Fair to say there i think B - a bit of double standerds going on there. imo
You are mistaken that Brenda Leyland was "harassed to death".  The inquest did not reach that conclusion.

As far as Amaral is concerned ... he was sacked from Madeleine's case.  Brunt is still working in his chosen field. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 02:15:23 AM
Didn’t someone recently tweet the McCanns whereabouts in a restaurant?

Photographed them and their children and immediately posted it while they were there ... with their exact location!

Why would anyone with even a modicum of common sense/decency actually do that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 02:24:42 AM
Some obsessive even visit PDL and take lots of photos and measurements around 5A

I know Faithlilly has claimed to have taken photographs in Luz ... and I know that quite a few of our forum members took advantage of Shining's residency to ask him to photograph particular areas of interest in the village.

Obsessive?  Perhaps? ... but a few of us post about Luz on a regular basis so it is helpful to get an idea of what we are talking about.
Then there is always Google earth as an obsessive's standby. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 02:33:11 AM
So was her name Brenda Leyland Sweepy Face or was her name hidden and not apparent on twitter. Looking at the tweets I have posted earlier it would appear it was the latter Brietta.
Did you miss Misty's post?

She posted as Sweepyface.
Martin Brunt identified her only with the name she used on Twitter ... which was Sweepyface.
Any of her twitter friends who wanted to show their support for her could have done so very easily using twitter ... did any of them bother?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 04:11:09 AM
Did you miss Misty's post?

She posted as Sweepyface.
Martin Brunt identified her only with the name she used on Twitter ... which was Sweepyface.
Any of her twitter friends who wanted to show their support for her could have done so very easily using twitter ... did any of them bother?
I'd be surprised if they didn't.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 07:11:04 AM
That's pretty laughable, the suspect contacting the police to complain about the investigation.  This just gets more crazy by the day.  Was Gerry an expert dog handler then too?

Is this the cite

I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

I doubt he was contacting Martin Grimes superior to compliment him.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 07:11:25 AM
I know Faithlilly has claimed to have taken photographs in Luz ... and I know that quite a few of our forum members took advantage of Shining's residency to ask him to photograph particular areas of interest in the village.

Obsessive?  Perhaps? ... but a few of us post about Luz on a regular basis so it is helpful to get an idea of what we are talking about.
Then there is always Google earth as an obsessive's standby.

Who is obsessed with Google Earth?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 07:28:43 AM
Did you miss Misty's post?

She posted as Sweepyface.
Martin Brunt identified her only with the name she used on Twitter ... which was Sweepyface.


I have snipped from your longer post Brietta (sorry).

No Martin Brunt did NOT just know her twitter name Sweepyface he was given her name and that she lived in Leicester(shire).  He didn't find her himself.

How many times do I need to say this? Her details were fed to the media by someone, who clearly wanted her named and shamed so to speak. IMO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 07:45:33 AM
Opinion ought to read like it is opinion not fact.  IMO or I think or some variant.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 07:46:09 AM
Did you miss Misty's post?

She posted as Sweepyface.
Martin Brunt identified her only with the name she used on Twitter ... which was Sweepyface.
Any of her twitter friends who wanted to show their support for her could have done so very easily using twitter ... did any of them bother?

Timeline:

29/09/14. Sweepyface stops tweeting and deletes account
01/10/14. Doorstepped.
04/10/14. Found dead.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:26:51 AM
I have snipped from your longer post Brietta (sorry).

No Martin Brunt did NOT just know her twitter name Sweepyface he was given her name and that she lived in Leicester(shire).  He didn't find her himself.

How many times do I need to say this? Her details were fed to the media by someone, who clearly wanted her named and shamed so to speak. IMO

[That is opinion Sunny]
I for one see nothing wrong with the compilation of the dossier and the handing of it to the police, and press... Abuse online needs to be addressed
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 08:34:24 AM
Timeline:

29/09/14. Sweepyface stops tweeting and deletes account
01/10/14. Doorstepped.
04/10/14. Found dead.

Brenda Leyland was found dead days after being accused on Sky News of trolling the parents of Madeleine McCann. Since then thousands of tweets from her deleted Twitter account have emerged.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.bb9jxaxjQ#.shz8BvB8Y
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 08:56:21 AM
Brenda Leyland was found dead days after being accused on Sky News of trolling the parents of Madeleine McCann. Since then thousands of tweets from her deleted Twitter account have emerged.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.bb9jxaxjQ#.shz8BvB8Y

Is that agreement of the timeline or an attempt to suggest it is incorrect?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 09:26:14 AM
I for one see nothing wrong with the compilation of the dossier and the handing of it to the police, and press... Abuse online needs to be addressed

There are procedures for dealing with online abuse and doorstepping vulnerable pensioners isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 09:29:23 AM
Posters are reminded that this is a discussion forum with rules. Comments should be constructive and polite at all times.  Goading, snide remarks and abuse will not be tolerated. TY
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:32:24 AM
There are procedures for dealing with online abuse and doorstepping vulnerable pensioners isn't one of them.

The procedures don't seem to be working so it's, reasonable to go to the press ti change things
We could say that Brenda should have left it to the police Re the McCann's rather than get involved with an online campaign  directed at them...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 09:34:53 AM
Is that agreement of the timeline or an attempt to suggest it is incorrect?

Please note the link underneath my post which is missing from yours
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 09:44:25 AM
Please note the link underneath my post which is missing from yours

Can you be a little less mysterious and let me know what your point is?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:45:59 AM
I think it's important  to remember that as regards the dossier Brenda, was not the victim.. She was one of the perpetrators... The McCann's were the victims
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 09:48:03 AM
I think it's important  to remember that as regards the dossier Brenda, was not the victim.. She was one of the perpetrators... The McCann's were the victims

In the same way Madeleine was the victim...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:51:05 AM
In the same way Madeleine was the victim...

Of course Madeleine was a victim... And so are her family.. Imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 09:51:43 AM
Of course Madeleine was s victim... And so are her family.. Imo

And so was Brenda Leyland.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:52:11 AM
And so was Brenda Leyland.

Victim of what
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 09:52:36 AM
I think it's important  to remember that as regards the dossier Brenda, was not the victim.. She was one of the perpetrators... The McCann's were the victims

Actually they weren't 'victims', they were targets as was BL.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 09:54:47 AM
Of course Madeleine was a victim... And so are her family.. Imo

That is yet to be determined by the Portuguese investigation. Nobody yet knows what happened to Madeleine, who was involved and who was behind what later took place.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:55:31 AM
Actually they weren't 'victims', they were targets as was BL.

I don't think it's unreasonable to refer to them as victims... There seems to be a concerted effort to sanitise Brendas actions...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:57:26 AM
That is yet to be determined by the Portuguese investigation. Nobody yet knows what happened to Madeleine, who was involved and who was behind what later took place.

That's, why I have to put imo but IMO it's almost certain Maddie was the victim of an abductor... Most likely from inside the apartment ..
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
I think it's important  to remember that as regards the dossier Brenda, was not the victim.. She was one of the perpetrators... The McCann's were the victims

Misuse of the internet is becoming more and more of a major problem with the abuse rate being numbered in thousands ... it is recognised in parliament and is the subject of many reports and academic studies.

It is ironic that the plight of victims many of whom are teenagers who feel driven to kill themselves as a result is superseded by the mess a perpetrator found herself in as a direct result of her obsession with Madeleine's parents.

Brenda Leyland was not a case of mistaken identity ... she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family with thousands of posts over a long period.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:07:28 AM
Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  Looking at the timeline she made that rather difficult to achieve.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:08:09 AM
Misuse of the internet is becoming more and more of a major problem with the abuse rate being numbered in thousands ... it is recognised in parliament and is the subject of many reports and academic studies.

It is ironic that the plight of victims many of whom are teenagers who feel driven to kill themselves as a result is superseded by the mess a perpetrator found herself in as a direct result of her obsession with Madeleine's parents.

Brenda Leyland was not a case of mistaken identity ... she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family with thousands of posts over a long period.

So you think she shouldn’t have been allowed to severely criticise the McCanns?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:08:58 AM
That is yet to be determined by the Portuguese investigation. Nobody yet knows what happened to Madeleine, who was involved and who was behind what later took place.

The PJ have said the McCann's, are not suspects... Rowley has said maddie was abducted... Sutton said the McCanns are not being investigated... Could it be any clearer
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:11:12 AM
Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  Looking at the timeline she made that rather difficult to achieve.
Do you have a cite for the timeline?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 10:12:07 AM
The PJ have said the McCann's, are not suspects... Rowley has said madduecwas abducted... Suttin said the McCann's are not being investigated... Could ut be any clearer

lol yes if you stop the cryptic in your post.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
So you think she shouldn’t have been allowed to severely criticise the McCanns?

she was doing a lot more than that  imo...she was part of a campaign spreading hatred towards the mccanns .......a word she used herself...up to 50 tweets a day
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:14:56 AM
Do you have a cite for the timeline?

It was in the link you posted.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:16:43 AM
she was doing a lot more than that  imo...she was part of a campaign spreading hatred towards the mccanns .......a word she used herself...up to 50 tweets a day

In response to now deleted tweets.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:18:32 AM
In response the now deleted tweets.

I can't understand how anyone can support her awful behaviour... She was, ashamed of it herself it seems
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:19:06 AM
It was in the link you posted.
So the one you posted ~ minus a cite ~ is false?  Have you amended it in line with forum policy or have you allowed misinformation to stand?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:20:53 AM
Do you have a cite for the timeline?
It was posted on the forum.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:21:16 AM
So the one you posted ~ minus a cite ~ is false?  Have you amended it in line with forum policy or have you allowed misinformation to stand?

Please point out where it is false.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:24:23 AM
It was posted on the forum.
I knew that Robitty ... but if you used the post I think you may have for reference, I believe the information it contained was wrong.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 10:24:53 AM
Misuse of the internet is becoming more and more of a major problem with the abuse rate being numbered in thousands ... it is recognised in parliament and is the subject of many reports and academic studies.

It is ironic that the plight of victims many of whom are teenagers who feel driven to kill themselves as a result is superseded by the mess a perpetrator found herself in as a direct result of her obsession with Madeleine's parents.

Brenda Leyland was not a case of mistaken identity ... she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family with thousands of posts over a long period.

Her obsession with Madeleine’s parents ? From the Guardian

‘The inquest heard between November 2013 and September 2014, using the Twitter ID @sweepyface, she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard.’

So less than a quarter of her tweets mentioned the McCanns. To date you have chalked up over 13,000 posts, a great many more than a quarter mentioning the McCanns I’d warrant, so it would appear you have a bit of an obsession yourself. Just because your posts are supportive of the McCanns doesn’t make your behaviour any less obsessive.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:25:24 AM
I knew that Robitty ... but if you used the post I think you may have for reference, I believe the information it contained was wrong.

Again, please point out where it is wrong.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 22, 2018, 10:25:46 AM
this thread isnt about the mcanns it is about brenda  it is not about their  innocence  or lack of innocence  brenda was treated badly by sky news and some supporters and thats IMHO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:26:41 AM
Her obsession with Madeleine’s parents ? From the Guardian

‘The inquest heard between November 2013 and September 2014, using the Twitter ID @sweepyface, she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard.’

So less than a quarter of her tweets mentioned the McCanns. To date you have chalked up over 13,000 posts, a great many more than a quarter mentioning the McCanns I’d warrant, so it would appear you have a bit of an obsession yourself. Just because your posts are supportive of the McCanns doesn’t make your behaviour any less obsessive.
You've got "mentioned" but also "alluded to" and "referred to".
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:30:07 AM
I knew that Robitty ... but if you used the post I think you may have for reference, I believe the information it contained was wrong.
Personally I have no idea if it was right or wrong but just the short time between the doorstepping and  the suicide is surprising.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
she was doing a lot more than that  imo...she was part of a campaign spreading hatred towards the mccanns .......a word she used herself...up to 50 tweets a day

why wont you accept not everyone like the mccanns -  or what they did.

How is it a campaign.

No one knows yet what happened to maddie
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:32:14 AM
You've got "mentioned" but also "alluded to" and "referred to".

You get the squabbles on here, supporters having a go at sceptics and sceptics having a go at supporters. Some would probably like to represent all the sceptics posts as being anti McCann whereas most of them are just against arguments put forward by supporters. The whole Brenda Leyland and her twitter opponents was similar IMO but a lot more robust.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
Last time the subject was discussed the point was raised that Brenda committed suicide on her estranged sons birthday...which is strange...it might suggest a different reason for her suicide
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:34:40 AM
I knew that Robitty ... but if you used the post I think you may have for reference, I believe the information it contained was wrong.
Would it be out by a week or just a day?  How much out was it? 
It shouldn't be hard to see when Brunt doorstepped her and when her death occurred.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:37:44 AM
Would it be out by a week or just a day?  How much out was it? 
It shouldn't be hard to see when Brunt doorstepped her and when her death occurred.

Agreed, if my dates were wrong someone please say so.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:41:23 AM
Personally I have no idea if it was right or wrong but just the short time between the doorstepping and  the suicide is surprising.
There was a very short time between both ... but no cite given as yet to substantiate the date when Brenda closed her account.

What might have caused her to do that at just that moment in time do you think?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 10:43:03 AM
Last time the subject was discussed the point was raised that Brenda committed suicide on her estranged sons birthday...which is strange...it might suggest a different reason for her suicide

Or then again it might not.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 22, 2018, 10:44:06 AM
Would it be out by a week or just a day?  How much out was it? 
It shouldn't be hard to see when Brunt doorstepped her and when her death occurred.

According to this, she was confronted by Brunt on Wednesday and died on the Saturday

http://thetruthseekersguide.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-strange-case-of-brenda-leyland_8.html
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:45:27 AM
why wont you accept not everyone like the mccanns -  or what they did.

How is it a campaign.

No one knows yet what happened to maddie

Please note ... a libellous statement cannot be posted even if an imo is added ... it is still libel
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
Or then again it might not.


it seems a very strange thing to do....commit suicide on your estranged sons birthday.....how can he ever enjoy a birthday again... It seems quite a cruel thing to do
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:46:51 AM
Agreed, if my dates were wrong someone please say so.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/20/sky-news-mccann-brenda-leyland
"Sky News offers condolences to family of Brenda Leyland, who was found dead in a Leicester hotel two days after channel broadcast footage of her"

So it is possible they held the footage for a while. 

"On 30 September she was approached by Brunt and a cameraman outside her village home in Burton Overy, Leicestershire, after the journalist was given a dossier containing details of people allegedly posting abusive tweets about Kate and Gerry McCann, whose daughter Madeleine disappeared in Portugal in 2007. Leyland had posted or reposted more than 400 tweets about the McCanns, the inquest heard.

"Leyland was found dead in a hotel room in Leicester on 4 October last year, two days after Brunt’s report aired on Sky."

So the report seems to have been delayed for 2 days before it was aired.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:51:34 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/20/sky-news-mccann-brenda-leyland
"Sky News offers condolences to family of Brenda Leyland, who was found dead in a Leicester hotel two days after channel broadcast footage of her"

So it is possible they held the footage for a while. 

"On 30 September she was approached by Brunt and a cameraman outside her village home in Burton Overy, Leicestershire, after the journalist was given a dossier containing details of people allegedly posting abusive tweets about Kate and Gerry McCann, whose daughter Madeleine disappeared in Portugal in 2007. Leyland had posted or reposted more than 400 tweets about the McCanns, the inquest heard.

"Leyland was found dead in a hotel room in Leicester on 4 October last year, two days after Brunt’s report aired on Sky."

So the report seems to have been delayed for 2 days before it was aired.

The date in question and the cite required is for the suspension of Brenda Leyland's twitter account.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 10:52:53 AM
it seems a very strange thing to do....commit suicide on your estranged sons birthday.....how can he ever enjoy a birthday again... It seems quite a cruel thing to do

I’m sure he’ll never forgive those who put his Mum in such a position in the first place.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 10:54:25 AM
There was a very short time between both ... but no cite given as yet to substantiate the date when Brenda closed her account.

What might have caused her to do that at just that moment in time do you think?

From your link...maybe you missed it.

Quote
On 29 September, five days before she died, Leyland tweeted that Brunt had started following her on Twitter.
This was the day she stopped tweeting and appears to also have been when the @Sweepyface account was deleted.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 10:56:34 AM
Last time the subject was discussed the point was raised that Brenda committed suicide on her estranged sons birthday...which is strange...it might suggest a different reason for her suicide

Oh my isn't it tragic enough -  without insinuating an ulterior motive.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:57:02 AM
I’m sure he’ll never forgive those who put his Mum in such a position in the first place.

I think we would need to know more about their relationship  before being sure of anything... You are making assumptions.. It could well be it was the breakdown of their relationship and the fact she would have no contact with her son on his birthday that triggered the suicide
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2018, 10:57:17 AM
From your link...maybe you missed it.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:57:33 AM
Oh my isn't it tragic enough -  without insinuating an ulterior motive.

It's a discussion  forum
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 11:02:13 AM
I think we would need to know more about their relationship  before being sure of anything... You are making assumptions.. It could well be it was the breakdown of their relationship and the fact she would have no contact with her son on his birthday that triggered the suicide

Nothing evidenced at the inquest suggested her estrangement with her son caused her suicide so I think it is you Whois making assumptions.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 11:02:57 AM
I will change the doorstepping date to 30/09/14. One source said Wednesday which would have been 01/10/14, however inquest says 30th. Apologies.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:03:05 AM
Nothing evidenced at the inquest suggested her estrangement with her son caused her suicide so I think it is you Whois making assumptions.
The evidence is the birthday

You said you are sure..
I said it may well be

I'm making no assumptions
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 11:07:02 AM
It's a discussion  forum

Ok then - was there anything to suggest there was a reason BL committed suicide on her sons birthday.

have you got something to back up -  there was a reason.

The state the poor woman was in she probably didn't even realise what day it was.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:08:15 AM
Ok then - was there anything to suggest there was a reason BL committed suicide on her sons birthday.

have you got something to back up -  there was a reason.

The state the poor woman was in she probably didn't even realise what day it was.

Her suicide was it, seems carefully planned ...and it was her estranged sons birthday... Estranged being the possible reason
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 22, 2018, 11:10:14 AM
I saw a slogan last night which is being circulated by suicide awareness.
I can't remember the quote exactly but the jist of it was
Suicide doesn't end the pain, the pain is just given to someone else.


Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 11:10:44 AM
The evidence is the birthday

You said you are sure..
I said it may well be

I'm making no assumptions


No you are making something out of nothing.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:11:46 AM

No you are making something out of nothing.

Iyo.... I don't think I am...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 22, 2018, 11:12:21 AM

No you are making something out of nothing.

Don't think so.
It must have been very painful for her to not have any contact with her son.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 22, 2018, 11:18:34 AM
Where is an emoticon depicting honking in a bucket over all the self righteous indignation expressed by the supporters ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:21:12 AM
Where is an emoticon depicting honking in a bucket over all the self righteous indignation expressed by the supporters ?

I see lots of self rightous indignation from sceptics... But I don't really do emoticons
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 11:25:30 AM
Don't think so.
It must have been very painful for her to not have any contact with her son.


Oh fgs the estranged will probably mean - he lived in los angelos.

Maybe his age might be a clue as well

Bens tribute to his mum. notice no apology for anything.

Ben had earlier paid tribute to his mother,

writing on Twitter: “I am love and I am light, thanks to you.

"I love you mum and I will miss you forever.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 22, 2018, 11:29:06 AM

Oh fgs the estranged will probably mean - he lived in los angelos.

Maybe his age might be a clue as well

Bens tribute to his mum. notice no apology for anything.

Ben had earlier paid tribute to his mother,

writing on Twitter: “I am love and I am light, thanks to you.

"I love you mum and I will miss you forever.

I believe she had two sons.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 11:36:18 AM
The evidence is the birthday

You said you are sure..
I said it may well be

I'm making no assumptions


Seems you don't understand the evidence D

Can you imagine the state her mind must have been in

the last thing on her mind would have been her sons birthday.




There are decisions to be made and you may be surprised that it rarely has to do with how the ones that love you will feel when you leave them behind. The reason why this isn’t considered is because people that are willing to commit to suicide rarely feel anything anymore.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 11:37:19 AM
I believe she had two sons.

She did...and
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:38:08 AM
supporters will blame  anybody but their  beloved    mcanns and them selves

The McCann's are in no way to blame for Brendas death... Neither are the dossier compilers
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:38:47 AM

Oh fgs the estranged will probably mean - he lived in los angelos.

Maybe his age might be a clue as well

Bens tribute to his mum. notice no apology for anything.

Ben had earlier paid tribute to his mother,

writing on Twitter: “I am love and I am light, thanks to you.

"I love you mum and I will miss you forever.

Yet nothing from her estranged son
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:40:48 AM

Seems you don't understand the evidence D

Can you imagine the state her mind must have been in

the last thing on her mind would have been her sons birthday.




There are decisions to be made and you may be surprised that it rarely has to do with how the ones that love you will feel when you leave them behind. The reason why this isn’t considered is because people that are willing to commit to suicide rarely feel anything anymore.

She was under pressure from the, results of her tweets... With no family to support her... The fact that she was estranged from her son on his birthday may well have tipped her over the edge... Imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:42:29 AM

Seems you don't understand the evidence D

Can you imagine the state her mind must have been in

the last thing on her mind would have been her sons birthday.




There are decisions to be made and you may be surprised that it rarely has to do with how the ones that love you will feel when you leave them behind. The reason why this isn’t considered is because people that are willing to commit to suicide rarely feel anything anymore.

That's mostly your opinion
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 22, 2018, 11:45:19 AM
She did...and

It wasn't the son you mention in your post
It was another son from whom she was estranged.
That must have caused her immense pain.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 11:48:13 AM
Her suicide was it, seems carefully planned ...and it was her estranged sons birthday... Estranged being the possible reason

The searches for helium etc were after she was doorstepped. There is absolutely nothing to suggest she was thinking of taking her life before that time.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 11:51:26 AM
It wasn't the son you mention in your post
It was another son from whom she was estranged.
That must have caused her immense pain.

It must but I wonder on that weekend what was her greatest fear ? I believe she had been estranged from her son for some time without committing suicide however she had never been shamefully exposed on worldwide TV before.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 22, 2018, 11:53:20 AM
It must but I wonder on that weekend what was her greatest fear ? I believe she had been estranged from her son for some time without committing suicide however she had never been shamefully exposed on worldwide TV before.

She had attempted suicide before.
Long before she became the subject of Skynews.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 11:54:42 AM
The McCann's are in no way to blame for Brendas death... Neither are the dossier compilers

The McCanns are in no way to blame unless they or someone on their behest passed the dossier to Sky. The compilers are another matter and not because they compiled the dossier but because they singled out BL and specifically passed on her name to Brunt, who it would appear, is too stupid to know when he is being played.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 11:55:10 AM
She had attempted suicide before.
Long before she became the subject of Skynews.

Yes many years before but not since.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 11:55:54 AM
It must but I wonder on that weekend what was her greatest fear ? I believe she had been estranged from her son for some time without committing suicide however she had never been shamefully exposed on worldwide TV before.
If you and your posting history on the subject were exposed on national TV by a doorstepping journalist would you be ashamed or defiant?  Do you think you would be supported by your friends and family or shunned by everyone?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
The McCanns are in no way to blame unless they or someone on their behest passed the dossier to Sky. The compilers are another matter and not because they compiled the dossier but because they singled out BL and specifically passed on her name to Brunt, who it would appear, is too stupid to know when he is being played.

I don't see anyone you mention to blame for Brendas death.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:58:40 AM
Yes many years before but not since.

Her son said the sky incident  was the final straw... So what were the other things happening in her life, at that time
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 12:25:43 PM
That's mostly your opinion

Well her son who knew her best opinion was.


The court also heard evidence from her son Ben, who said he believed the confrontation had been the final straw.

In a statement, he said he believed she was "completely destroyed" by what had occurred.

He said he heard "panic and fear" in her voice when he spoke to her after the Sky interview.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 12:29:21 PM
Well her son who knew her best opinion was.


The court also heard evidence from her son Ben, who said he believed the confrontation had been the final straw.

In a statement, he said he believed she was "completely destroyed" by what had occurred.

He said he heard "panic and fear" in her voice when he spoke to her after the Sky interview.


He said it was the final straw... The final straw  is, a relatively small thing... So what were the other larger things happening... We don't know
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 12:31:53 PM
It wasn't the son you mention in your post
It was another son from whom she was estranged.
That must have caused her immense pain.

Only in your opinion.

You don't know what the circumstances was.

Or who estranged from who - unless you have a cite to back your post up E.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 12:36:54 PM
Only in your opinion.

You don't know what the circumstances was.

Or who estranged from who - unless you have a cite to back your post up E.
We don't have all the facts so it's, quite possible my suggestion is correct
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 12:41:18 PM
I think the words "final straw" should not be taken lightly.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 12:43:13 PM
He said it was the final straw... The final straw  is, a relatively small thing... So what were the other larger things happening... We don't know

No mention of larger things - seems to me an accumulation of smaller things like to do with the situation caused by brunt
 
phrase. If an event is the last straw or the straw that broke the camel's back, it is the latest in a series of unpleasant or undesirable events, and makes you feel that you cannot tolerate a situation any longer.


Or maybe tweets on here could have added to her anguish -  from mcns supporters.IMO


https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/womens-issues/brenda-leyland-wasnt-troll-didnt-deserve-die-544755.html
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 12:46:00 PM
We don't have all the facts so it's, quite possible my suggestion is correct


Possibly wrong as well.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 12:59:33 PM

Possibly wrong as well.

Yes, we don't know... But some think they do
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2018, 01:18:23 PM
Yes, we don't know... But some think they do

Ok D shall i be the adult and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 01:21:09 PM
Ok D shall i be the adult and leave it at that.
Yes.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 22, 2018, 04:19:46 PM
I think the words "final straw" should not be taken lightly.

It is the one that breaks the camels back.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 04:29:28 PM
Misuse of the internet is becoming more and more of a major problem with the abuse rate being numbered in thousands ... it is recognised in parliament and is the subject of many reports and academic studies.

It is ironic that the plight of victims many of whom are teenagers who feel driven to kill themselves as a result is superseded by the mess a perpetrator found herself in as a direct result of her obsession with Madeleine's parents.

Brenda Leyland was not a case of mistaken identity ... she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family with thousands of posts over a long period.

Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family" please Brietta as I have seen she had a facebook page and may have been a member of forums on many other topics for all we know.

Of course Brietta I have read some really horrendous trolling posts on both sides of this case so perhaps you would like the perpetrators from the supporter side to be charged by the police too?

Do we know if there were any supporter tweets, posts in the dossier sent to the police....sorry of course there weren't.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 04:33:28 PM
It is the one that breaks the camels back.

When the camel is already overloaded... Otherwise the straw, would be of no consequence
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 05:04:36 PM
Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family" please Brietta as I have seen she had a facebook page and may have been a member of forums on many other topics for all we know.

Of course Brietta I have read some really horrendous trolling posts on both sides of this case so perhaps you would like the perpetrators from the supporter side to be charged by the police too?

Do we know if there were any supporter tweets, posts in the dossier sent to the police....sorry of course there weren't.

The dossier was Re abuse towards the McCann's... Not abuse on the net in general...

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 07:00:03 PM
The dossier was Re abuse towards the McCann's... Not abuse on the net in general...

So you do agree that some of your fellow supporters dish out abuse then.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 07:00:56 PM
Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family" please Brietta as I have seen she had a facebook page and may have been a member of forums on many other topics for all we know.

Of course Brietta I have read some really horrendous trolling posts on both sides of this case so perhaps you would like the perpetrators from the supporter side to be charged by the police too?

Do we know if there were any supporter tweets, posts in the dossier sent to the police....sorry of course there weren't.

Brietta just reminding you I am still awaiting my cite.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 07:04:01 PM
So you do agree that some of your fellow supporters dish out abuse then.

I dont have any fellow supporters......I only speak for myself...and you have failed to provide a cite for that I  post elsewhere
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 07:18:05 PM
If you and your posting history on the subject were exposed on national TV by a doorstepping journalist would you be ashamed or defiant?  Do you think you would be supported by your friends and family or shunned by everyone?  Just curious.

Oh I think if I was doorstepped by a journalist he would come off worse.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Oh I think if I was doorstepped by a journalist he would come off worse.

so you wouldnt follow due process
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 07:21:40 PM
so you wouldnt follow due process

What due process? The same ones that the dossier collectors did?   Some special supporters type weird due process that means you take evidence to the media not the police? That one Davel?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 07:26:21 PM
What due process? The same ones that the dossier collectors did?   Some special supporters type weird due process that means you take evidence to the media not the police? That one Davel?

you need to read the post I responded to and you might understand what due process.....
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 07:30:24 PM
you need to read the post I responded to and you might understand what due process.....

And the post was
Oh I think if I was doorstepped by a journalist he would come off worse

So just what due process were you talking about davel?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 07:32:47 PM
And the post was
Oh I think if I was doorstepped by a journalist he would come off worse

So just what due process were you talking about davel?

so you dont understand what faith means by come off worse...does she mean she would report her to the police for harrassment...that due process
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 08:12:45 PM
He said it was the final straw... The final straw  is, a relatively small thing... So what were the other larger things happening... We don't know


Oh stop making it up as you go along. You are actually contradicting her son? The dossier was a trigger-end of!  feel proud and argue your corner, but it won't change a thing. A vulnerable woman was singled out- not those who actually DID threaten the McCanns alledgedly -oh no not them.

The death penalty was a sure big surprise for the dossier writers.. they were just expecting jail time!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:14:20 PM

Oh stop making it up as you go along. You are actually contradicting her son? The dossier was a trigger-end of!  feel proud and argue your corner, but it won't change a thing. A vulnerable woman was singled out- not those who actually DID threaten the McCanns alledgedly -oh no not them.

The death penalty was a sure big surprise for the dossier writers.. they were just expecting jail time!

a vulnerable woman was not singled out..lets start with the truth...no one knew  Brenda had a history of suicide and mental illness
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 08:18:39 PM
a vulnerable woman was not singled out..lets start with the truth...no one knew  Brenda had a history of suicide and mental illness

Firstly how would you know that? Secondly Brunt as he was given Brenda Leylands name and roughly where she lived would certainly know her age and that she lived alone.

To me she looked very vulnerable yet they didn't show her once on Sky they showed her dozens of times.

Do you think that was right DaveL?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 08:19:37 PM
a vulnerable woman was not singled out..lets start with the truth...no one knew  Brenda had a history of suicide and mental illness

Yes, you wouldn’t expect a journalist to do some research.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:22:22 PM
Firstly how would you know that? Secondly Brunt as he was given Brenda Leylands name and roughly where she lived would certainly know her age and that she lived alone.

To me she looked very vulnerable yet they didn't show her once on Sky they showed her dozens of times.

Do you think that was right DaveL?

I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 22, 2018, 08:25:07 PM
so you wouldnt follow due process

Yep!
Politely ask him  to leave my property.
After that it's his call.
Resonable force to eject an undesirable is OK.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:26:19 PM
Yep!
Politely ask him  to leave my property.
After that it's his call.
Resonable force to eject an undesirable is OK.

i cant imagine you dropping the nut
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 08:26:40 PM
I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims

What about online abuse against unknown people Davel or is your sympathy only for the McCanns?

I suppose you were one of the architects of the dossier then Davel as you seem to agree with in fact almost appear proud of it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:29:56 PM
What about online abuse against unknown people Davel or is your sympathy only for the McCanns?

I suppose you were one of the architects of the dossier then Davel as you seem to agree with in fact almost appear proud of it.

how can  there be online abuse against unknown people...they do not exist... I myself have been subject to vile abuse online...not related to this case...  my children asked me why poeple were being so mean to us..so i have a better understanding than most...I was not part of the dossier compilers but i fully support them
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 08:40:45 PM
so you wouldnt follow due process
It would be a process alright.  Something like mincing comes to mind.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:43:20 PM
It would be a process alright.  Something like mincing comes to mind.

then it would not be due process...its quite revealing how many posters claim to support due process but when it came to their own situation...wouldnt give it the time of day...hypocrisy again
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 08:45:31 PM
then it would not be due process...its quite revealing how many posters claim to support due process but when it came to their own situation...wouldnt give it the time of day...hypocrisy again
That is the rapid "due Process" rather than the drawn out due process.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:47:33 PM
That is the rapid "due Process" rather than the drawn out due process.

so the dossier compilers have every right to ignore the standard due process that faith has proposed ...if I could be so bold ...that is the idiots view...if you start assaulting journalists it si you who will end up in the dock...and i have been doorstepped
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 22, 2018, 08:50:03 PM
Oh I think if I was doorstepped by a journalist he would come off worse.

In the BBC guidelines, it is emphasised that it can be a risky tactic and dangerous for the journalist , so a thorough risk assessment must be made.

Quote
This activity can present a significant safety risk, especially if the subject is contentious and/or the target interviewee confrontational. It may provoke an aggressive or even a violent response, not only from the target but also from their family, friends and colleagues. The target may try to avoid being interviewed by either taking refuge or escaping on foot or by vehicle, which may create a collateral damage risk.

Also, tensions can be heightened if there is a media scrum to be first to get an interview.

What Can Go Wrong?
Physical attack to crew aiming to injure persons or damage camera equipment.
Injury from weapons (firearms. knives), projectiles (bricks), clubs, high pressure hose pipes etc.
Injury from animals such as dogs, horses etc.
Injury from vehicles caused by erratic and/or fast driving.
Injuries from entanglement with other crews or others at the location.
Getting cornered or unable to escape from threatening situations.
Verbal threats or abuse.


I don't find it particularly surprising that Brunt and his crew chose to track down a single, elderly lady living alone.

This is from Offcom guidelines ;

"Doorstepping for factual programmes should not take place unless a request for an interview has been refused, or it has not been possible to request an interview"

 Brunt had a means of contacting Brenda through twitter, had he tried to arrange an interview? It doesn't look like it. He and his employer tried to argue it was in 'the public interest' but who's interest did outing someone for expressing lawful opinions serve?  Can anyone find any examples of Brunt doorstepping any private individual in his long career?

Some might argue that it would be in the public interest to confront some of the last people to see Madeleine over police statements made about them allegedly being involved in child abuse. Or maybe someone in the Leicestershire police could be confronted about not passing that statement on immediately to the officers in an ongoing missing child case that has cost the taxpayer 12 million.
Questions about disturbing statements not passed on really would tick the boxes of 'public interest'.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:51:50 PM
In the BBC guidelines, it is emphasised that it can be a risky tactic and dangerous for the journalist , so a thorough risk assessment must be made.


I don't find it particularly surprising that Brunt and his crew chose to track down a single, elderly lady living alone.

This is from Offcom guidelines ;

"Doorstepping for factual programmes should not take place unless a request for an interview has been refused, or it has not been possible to request an interview"

 Brunt had a means of contacting Brenda through twitter, had he tried to arrange an interview? It doesn't look like it. He and his employer tried to argue it was in 'the public interest' but who's interest did outing someone for expressing lawful opinions serve?  Can anyone find any examples of Brunt doorstepping any private individual in his long career?

Some might argue that it would be in the public interest to confront some of the last people to see Madeleine over police statements made about them allegedly being involved in child abuse. Or maybe someone in the Leicestershire police could be confronted about not passing that statement on immediately to the officers in an ongoing missing child case that has cost the taxpayer 12 million.
Questions about disturbing statements not passed on really would tick the boxes of 'public interest'.

I have sympathy with the victims of online abuse but none with the perpertrators...none whatsoever
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 22, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims

The problem with that is that it's subjective. People saying 'vile' stuff or calling you names isn't unlawful.

 Please provide a cite for Brenda being an 'abuser'. The police found no laws broken in 80 pages of the dossier.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 08:53:57 PM
I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims

No you don't. You have abused Amaral and Brenda and called sceptics mentally ill for not agreeing with you!   Selective abuse is what you want dealt with.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 08:57:33 PM
Yep!
Politely ask him  to leave my property.
After that it's his call.
Resonable force to eject an undesirable is OK.

That raincoat in itself is offensive!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 08:58:32 PM
No you don't. You have abused Amaral and Brenda and called sceptics mentally ill for not agreeing with you!   Selective abuse is what you want dealt with.
Each to their own.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 08:59:17 PM
No you don't. You have abused Amaral and Brenda and called sceptics mentally ill for not agreeing with you!   Selective abuse is what you want dealt with.

I havent abused anyone ..report me to the police if you think i have..
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 22, 2018, 09:00:22 PM
Davel doesn't seem to understand that being abusive online isn't actually a crime.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 09:01:04 PM
so the dossier compilers have every right to ignore the standard due process that faith has proposed ...if I could be so bold ...that is the idiots view...if you start assaulting journalists it si you who will end up in the dock...and i have been doorstepped

Davel have you done everything or is this a tale?  Why on earth would any one want to doorstep you?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 09:02:01 PM
Davel doesn't seem to understand that being abusive online isn't actually a crime.
Have you got a cite for that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 22, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
i cant imagine you dropping the nut

Take your pick from:
1) I am not surprised you never did have much of an imagination.
2) I am surprised you always displayed such a fertile imagination.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:03:25 PM
Davel have you done everything or is this a tale?  Why on earth would any one want to doorstep you?

Ive had a film  crew outside my place of work...concerning something  one of my employees did....it even reached the sun who asked me for a quote
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:04:16 PM
Take your pick from:
1) I am not surprised you never did have much of an imagination.
2) I am surprised you always displayed such a fertile imagination.

I cant imagine you dropping the nut
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 22, 2018, 09:04:38 PM
Have you got a cite for that?

Yes. Davel 's post above.

"I havent abused anyone ..report me to the police if you think i have.."

   Only someone that thought online abuse was a criminal act would suggest reporting it to the police.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 09:06:06 PM
I havent abused anyone ..report me to the police if you think i have..


I don't think... it is all in the threads although I imagine most of them have been deleted. I don't care enough about you or your posts to be bothered about reporting. I will leave that up to the McCann supporters.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:07:46 PM
Yes. Davel 's post above.

"I havent abused anyone ..report me to the police if you think i have.."

   Only someone that thought online abuse was a criminal act would suggest reporting it to the police.

online abuse can be a criminal act
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:09:02 PM

I don't think... it is all in the threads although I imagine most of them have been deleted. I don't care enough about you or your posts to be bothered about reporting. I will leave that up to the McCann supporters.

you cannot abuse an anonymous person...do you not undertsatnd...when the abuse is against a real person its completely different
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 09:21:46 PM
you cannot abuse an anonymous person...do you not undertsatnd...when the abuse is against a real person its completely different


ok let us look at what you typed and try not to fall over our laptops with laughter... you are saying an anonymous person  isn't a real person?  *%87

ooooooookaaaaayyyyyyyy

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 22, 2018, 09:23:00 PM
online abuse can be a criminal act

  The original post I was referring to accused you of abusing Amaral and calling sceptical people mentally ill. Which is in effect name calling. You said 'report it to the police if I have abused anyone'

  It seems like you are saying name calling is OK and 'abuse' is not. Abuse is not defined in the Malicious Communication Act 1988.  The general term 'Abuse' is not specifically a crime in UK law.

In the Malicious Communication Act 1988 and the Communications Act 2003.

 "a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;'

Any person who sends to another person—
(a)a [F1letter, electronic communication or article of any description] which conveys—
(i)a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;
(ii)a threat; or
(iii)information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or
(b)any [F2article or electronic communication] which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature",

If Brenda didn't send anything 'indecent or grossly offensive', ( as the police concluded) then she wasn't engaging in 'online abuse'.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:24:28 PM

ok let us look at what you typed and try not to fall over our laptops with laughter... you are saying an anonymous person  isn't a real person?  *%87

ooooooookaaaaayyyyyyyy

do you not understand that....
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 09:29:14 PM
do you not understand that....

No your grasp of explaining yourself is a deliberate ploy  to pretend you do not have a grasp of English-to prevent you from explaining yourself.  If this isn't the case and your English is not your first language then accept my apologies.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 09:32:06 PM
how can  there be online abuse against unknown people...they do not exist... I myself have been subject to vile abuse online...not related to this case...  my children asked me why poeple were being so mean to us..so i have a better understanding than most...I was not part of the dossier compilers but i fully support them

Now why would someone want to be horrible to you Davel?

So you don't mind people being abusive to people that don't exist Davel?   

How on earth can that make sense.   

Your original post.

I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims


On your support of Sky's actions. Shame on you.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:38:05 PM
Now why would someone want to be horrible to you Davel?

So you don't mind people being abusive to people that don't exist Davel?   

How on earth can that make sense.   

Your original post.

I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims


On your support of Sky's actions. Shame on you.

shame on you that you support onine abuse that has resulted in several suicides...on line abuse needs to be stopped ..  do you suport online abuse ...I dont..  because online abuse has resulted in the death by suicide of several young people I think it needs to be addressed...my name is freely available and I am not posting anonymously...you are.. why
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 22, 2018, 09:46:20 PM
shame on you that you support onine abuse that has resulted in several suicides...on line abuse needs to be stopped ..  do you suport online abuse ...I dont..  because online abuse has resulted in the death by suicide of several young people I think it needs to be addressed...my name is freely available and I am not posting anonymously...you are.. why

What was Alfie saying about strawmen.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 09:48:03 PM
Now why would someone want to be horrible to you Davel?

So you don't mind people being abusive to people that don't exist Davel?   

How on earth can that make sense.   

Your original post.

I think online abuse against known poeple is vile...i think it needs to be stopped ...the abusers are causing the problems not the victims...Brenda was an abuser...I dont condemn skys action in the slightest... I would like to see them confront more vicims of online abuse and support the victims


On your support of Sky's actions. Shame on you.

Several posters on the McCann case (and the wider internet) have/had multiple online persona. How do you identify the real person behind all the masks when working out who is abusing or being abused? Even with legal intervention, often old habits die hard.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 09:49:33 PM
shame on you that you support onine abuse that has resulted in several suicides...on line abuse needs to be stopped ..  do you suport online abuse ...I dont..  because online abuse has resulted in the death by suicide of several young people I think it needs to be addressed...my name is freely available and I am not posting anonymously...you are.. why

Two things where have I said I support online abuse and just where is your name freely available, perhaps in your local electoral roll?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 09:50:06 PM
shame on you that you support onine abuse that has resulted in several suicides...on line abuse needs to be stopped ..  do you suport online abuse ...I dont..  because online abuse has resulted in the death by suicide of several young people I think it needs to be addressed...my name is freely available and I am not posting anonymously...you are.. why

cite for supporting online abuse. ta.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:51:09 PM
cite for supporting online abuse. ta.

do you condemn brenda or not
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
Two things where have I said I support online abuse and just where is your name freely available, perhaps in your local electoral roll?

again...do you support the abuse by brenda... im quite happy to give you my real identity by pm...are you
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 10:19:22 PM
do you condemn brenda or not

goading....

 condemn her for what exactly? I never knew her- I don't do social media.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 22, 2018, 10:20:54 PM
goading....

 condemn her for what exactly? I never knew her- I don't do social media.

it  seems if a supporter   doesnt  agree  with   what you   say  IE honesty   you are  goading  doesnt it??
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:22:11 PM
do you condemn brenda or not
Does it matter? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
again...do you support the abuse by brenda... im quite happy to give you my real identity by pm...are you

I don't believe Brenda posted abuse about the McCanns she posted her opinions in a rather unpleasant way, and I don't believe you would give me your real identity so no thank you.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:24:40 PM
Does it matter?

not to me it doesnt...brenda was the abuser...the mccanns were th victims IMO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:25:50 PM
I don't believe Brenda posted abuse about the McCanns she posted her opinions in a rather unpleasant way, and I don't believe you would give me your real identity so no thank you.

she did post abuse  imo have you read her tweets
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:26:42 PM
not to me it doesnt...brenda was the abuser..the mccanns were th victims IMO
So don't ask that question again. "Do you condemn Brenda?" is no longer a valid question.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 10:28:21 PM
Posters please note that any attempt to out members is viewed as a serious rule breach. Any further violations of this rule will result in posting privileges being moderated.  No further warning will be given.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 10:30:12 PM
she did post abuse  imo have you read her twwete

Yes I have read her tweets elsewhere and although some were deeply unpleasant they were not as bad as others I have seen elsewhere on this subject and others.  I have seen many much more unpleasant and some indeed threatening messages and posts from other sceptics and also supporters too. I am not naming nicknames or giving details of the posts as I probably would be able to find them again and some of them made me feel ill.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 22, 2018, 10:30:27 PM
i  think the  thing is no matter how  someone  feels about this case  the dossier/s   butted in when they had no  need  too and brenda  finally  snapped   and ever since supporters have been defensive and hostile about her/their  actions  the mcanns should have condemmed the supporters actions but they  condoned it but  that doesnt  suprise me considering kate wanted amaral to feel fear and pain
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:30:35 PM
So don't ask that question again. "Do you condemn Brenda?" is no longer a valid question.

I dont need to ask any question..i have made my position clear
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:31:59 PM
i  think the  thing is no matter how  someone  feels about this case  the dossier/s   butted in when they had no  need  too and brenda  finally  snapped   and ever since supporters have been defensive and hostile about her/their  actions  the mcanns should have condemmed the supporters actions but they  condoned it but  that doesnt  suprise me considering kate wanted amaral to feel fear and pain

online abuse is a serious issue...it was absolutely right to highlight it..imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 10:36:46 PM
not to me it doesnt...brenda was the abuser..the mccanns were the victims

Can people who don't subscribe to social media be a victim of online abuse?

The reality about twitter is that if you are not a subscriber, the only way you would know if someone was posting abusive messages about you is if you were to go looking for them or someone who is a member went looking for them and thereafter told you about it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:40:13 PM
Can people who don't subscribe to social media be a victim of online abuse?
absolutely...just because some one does not see abuse or libel directed at them it is still abuse or libel
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 10:41:32 PM
Can people who don't subscribe to social media be a victim of online abuse?
I think so.  It is the potential effect it has on a person's reputation.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 10:43:22 PM
absolutely...just because some one does not see abuse or libel directed at them it is still abuse or libel

If you don't know about abuse you cannot be described as a victim.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 22, 2018, 10:44:32 PM
If you don't know about abuse you cannot be described as a victim.

unless some supporters know them/are part of their circle of their family and friends and run  to them about every  little  thing
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:45:57 PM
If you don't know about abuse you cannot be described as a victim.

That is absolute rubbish John.....abuse is abuse
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 10:49:24 PM
Can people who don't subscribe to social media be a victim of online abuse?

The reality about twitter is that if you are not a subscriber, the only way you would know if someone was posting abusive messages about you is if you were to go looking for them or someone who is a member went looking for them and thereafter told you about it.

Did Lord McAlpine frequent social media?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 10:52:56 PM
If you don't know about abuse you cannot be described as a victim.
That’s untrue IMO.  You don’t always have to be aware of a harmful action in order to be considered a victim.  For example you could be a victim of computer hacking without knowing about it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 10:55:37 PM
its quite obvious Leyland was the perpertartor and the mccanns were the victims....
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 10:56:41 PM
Theoretically ANY mod could, why single out supporter mods?

Have sceptics ever compiled a dossier ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 10:57:55 PM
Have sceptics ever compiled a dossier ?
Quite possibly, how would I know? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 10:58:37 PM
Have sceptics ever compiled a dossier ?

I think some tried but gave up due to lack of relevant data.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 10:59:56 PM
I think some tried but gave up due to lack of relevant data.
Yes I seem to recall threats of that nature to submit a dossier of alleged McCann supporter abuse, I wonder whatever happened to that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 11:00:22 PM
That is absolute rubbish John.....abuse is abuse

If you don't receive abuse directly then you cannot be said to be a victim of it.  If someone says something nasty about you behind your back at work you will be totally unaware of the comment so cannot be a victim. If they said the same comment within your hearing then you could be said to be a victim.  Everything in this world is relative.

I think you confuse 'target of abuse' with 'victim of abuse'

People in the public eye like President Trump or PM Theresa May are targets of abuse every day but they aren't victims.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 11:03:08 PM
If you don't receive abuse directly then you cannot be said to be a victim of it.  If someone says something nasty about you behind your back at work you will be totally unaware of the comment so cannot be a victim. If they said the same comment within your hearing then you could be said to be a victim.  Everything in this world is relative.

I think you confuse 'target of abuse' with 'victim of abuse'

People in the public eye like President Trump or PM Theresa May are targets of abuse every day but they aren't victims.
Do you think the McCanns (or President Trump or Theresa May) are totally unaware of the abuse that gets heaped on them daily on social media?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:04:17 PM
If you don't receive abuse directly then you cannot be said to be a victim of it.  If someone says something nasty about you behind your back at work you will be totally unaware of the comment so cannot be a victim. If they said the same comment within your hearing then you could be said to be a victim.  Everything in this world is relative.

I think you confuse 'target of abuse' with 'victim of abuse'

People in the public eye like President Trump or PM Theresa May are targets of abuse every day but they aren't victims.

I dont confuse anything.. leyland posted up to 50 posts a day...have you seen them...many abusive posts towards the mccanns ...an absolute disgrace..she and others needed to be stopped
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 22, 2018, 11:06:34 PM
I think some tried but gave up due to lack of relevant data.

Or maybe they just lacked the obsessive temperament needed for such an endeavour.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
If you don't receive abuse directly then you cannot be said to be a victim of it.  If someone says something nasty about you behind your back at work you will be totally unaware of the comment so cannot be a victim. If they said the same comment within your hearing then you could be said to be a victim.  Everything in this world is relative.

I think you confuse 'target of abuse' with 'victim of abuse'

People in the public eye like President Trump or PM Theresa May are targets of abuse every day but they aren't victims.

Abuse on social media comes in the written form. If people weren't victims, the likes of Lord McAlpine wouldn't be able to sue.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 22, 2018, 11:08:09 PM
Or maybe they just lacked the obsessive temperament needed for such an endeavour.

we  havent made this case  our whole life like supporters they    do   would   do anything for the mcanns 8((()*/  they  dont hide their attachment to the mcanns do they??
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 11:09:31 PM
Or maybe they just lacked the obsessive temperament needed for such an endeavour.
Or maybe they were just too exhausted after a hard day’s tweeting bile to muster the energy to trawl the internet looking for a few needles in a giant haystack.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 11:09:48 PM
I dont confuse anything.. leyland posted up to 50 posts a day...have you seen them...many abusive posts towards the mccanns ...an absolute disgrace..she and others needed to be stopped

Well Brenda Leyland was stopped wasn't she Davel.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 11:10:00 PM
Or maybe they just lacked the obsessive temperament needed for such an endeavour.

How hard could it have been, given how few of us there are & compared to many thousands of them obsessively posting & tweeting?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 22, 2018, 11:11:17 PM
Well Brenda Leyland was stopped wasn't she Davel.

forever  too  sunny  supporters dont  realise  brenda  went  all around the world they  played her  on sky news australia here many times  she was  exposed worldwide for having  a  opinion  very sad  imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 11:13:24 PM
Do you think the McCanns (or President Trump or Theresa May) are totally unaware of the abuse that gets heaped on them daily on social media?

Everyone in the public arena receives abuse of one sort or another, it goes with the territory.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 22, 2018, 11:15:46 PM
Everyone in the public arena receives abuse of one sort or another, it goes with the territory.
I don’t dispute it, in fact I said as much only the other day.  They are all victims of vile online abuse as are most people in the public eye.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 11:19:59 PM
I dont confuse anything.. leyland posted up to 50 posts a day...have you seen them...many abusive posts towards the mccanns ...an absolute disgrace..she and others needed to be stopped

Stopped by who exactly?  Everyone has the right to opinions and the right to air those opinions. The last time I looked, the only people who have any right to do anything about it are the police. Sky News, Jonathan Levy or Martin Brunt had no right to involves themselves in what BL was doing just for the sake of a cheap scoop.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:22:38 PM
Stopped by who exactly?  Everyone has the right to an opinion and the right to air those opinions. The last time I looked, the only people who have any right to do anything about it are the police.

stopped by the law... and if people decide taht the law is not sufficient they have the right to go to press or to a civil court
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 11:27:37 PM
stopped by the law... and if people decide taht the law is not sufficient they have the right to go to press or to a civil court

And creating a dossier with names and details of people and passing this information to the media fits into the above where?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 22, 2018, 11:31:43 PM
stopped by the law... and if people decide taht the law is not sufficient they have the right to go to press or to a civil court

I understand the police looked at the dossier but found that no laws had been broken.  That should have been an end to it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:32:26 PM
And creating a dossier with names and details of people and passing this information to the media fits into the above where?

the police are far to busyy to police crme...so when they dont act...give it to the medai...totally justified imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 11:34:28 PM
And creating a dossier with names and details of people and passing this information to the media fits into the above where?

When someone suspects they are being stalked, they are told to log all suspicious events before the police can decide if any action needs to be taken against the alleged stalker. Very often the police do not act until it's too late & the victim has been attacked or killed.
Think of the dossier as a perfectly legitimate log of abusive & threatening online behaviour carried out in a warped sense of "justice for Madeleine".
IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:37:59 PM
I understand the police looked at the dossier but found that no laws had been broken.  That should have been an end to it.

no it shouldnt....wasnt OJ simpson found not guilty...should her family have left it there. ... total rubbish John
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:38:53 PM
I understand the police looked at the dossier but found that no laws had been broken.  That should have been an end to it.

I really cant undersatnd your blind faith in the police...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 22, 2018, 11:39:37 PM
no it shouldnt....wasnt OJ simpson found not guilty...should her family have left it there. ... total rubbish John

Then there was the Daily Mail & Stephen Lawrence case.......
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 22, 2018, 11:40:29 PM
Then there was the Daily Mail & Stephen Lawrence case.......

yes its atotally laughable suggestion that the police are always right
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 22, 2018, 11:45:46 PM
don't talk like that Davel.  We are only human.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2018, 04:07:47 AM
Brietta just reminding you I am still awaiting my cite.

You asked …   “Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family" please Brietta as I have seen she had a facebook page and may have been a member of forums on many other topics for all we know”

Unfortunately I am spoilt for choice as far as your cite goes.

But think on this, and wonder how you would cope were you to discover that an individual who had an unhealthy obsession with your family had allegedly gone out of her way to wander the streets of your town where they could be walking in ignorance of her presence or even her existence.

Kate McCann and her children could well have been going about their daily lives in their home village unaware that an anonymous individual who professed hatred for the family could be in closer proximity than the fifteen miles between her village and theirs.

I find that a chilling thought.

Snip
"When Madeleine first went missing she used to go over to her home village all the time.
She used to go to the local pub and the shops telling everyone what she thought about the family. It seemed very odd behaviour."
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2629697/exposed-mccann-troll-was-mired-in-loneliness/




The cite(s) you requested ...

'Snip'
However if the law cannot always bring these online offenders to justice then the task inevitably falls to journalists like Brunt. Some have criticised his decision to target Leyland because she did not actually threaten to kill the McCanns, unlike other trolls. But she did send thousands of hate tweets. Some days she would send more than 50 messages attacking the McCanns.

Had she hurled this abuse at the couple in the street, she would have been hauled off in handcuffs. Instead she continued to publish with impunity, safe from scrutiny at home in Burton Overy, just 15 miles from where the McCanns live in Leicestershire. Yes, these were the acts of an obsessed loner but "being an oddball" is not a defence to this sort of criminal behaviour.
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/camilla-tominey/521746/Camilla-Tominey-McCanns-trolls-wake-up-selfies-the-real-Prince-Phillip


"Snip"
When Martin Brunt, the Sky crime correspondent, interviewed Brenda Leyland about her nearly 5,000 tweets which formed part of a vitriolic campaign against the parents of missing toddler Madeleine McCann, she declared that she was doing nothing illegal.
https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/10/07/why-skys-martin-brunt-was-right-investigate-story-mccann-twitter-troll-brenda


"Snip"
First, the entire Twitter history of Ms Leyland’s @SweepyFace Twitter account can currently be viewed and downloaded via GrepTweet  (or here as a .txt file).  There are over 4,000 tweets in the account and all of them appear to be about the McCanns… or rather, about #McCann, the ongoing “he said, she said” debate between pro- and anti- tweeters. 
http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2014/10/07/brenda-leyland-and-twitter-storms/


"Snip"
Yet, hiding behind the alias @sweepyface, she insinuated that the McCanns were implicated in their three-year-old daughter's disappearance during a family holiday in Portugal in 2007 - a theme that had obsessed her for four years. According to the website BuzzFeed, she was sometimes posting more than 50 tweets a day, even on Christmas Eve, from 7am until midnight.
She claimed the McCanns were trying to silence their critics. The accusations were not original but her turn of phrase was blithe and deadly. "You will be hated for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!"
and she developed such an obsession with the McCanns that almost all the 4625 tweets she sent from December 2010 were about the case, many taking issue with their supporters.
It was an industrious hidden life.
Emboldened by disguise, she shared the assumption of all internet trolls that she could say anything she pleased without being held accountable.
As Professor Mary Beard told the London Daily Telegraph when she was campaigning last year against misogynist trolling: "Anonymity has disguised the nature of authorship.
It has allowed these evanescent creatures on the web to blast off without thinking of the victims.
Somehow no-one in this conversation is real. They are just names."

Mrs Leyland tweeted triumphantly at the height of her persecution: "You can move to France, anywhere, but social media is everywhere! Our memories are long, Maddie deserves it."

Her message seemed mild compared with some of the foul-mouthed stuff that has continued to rain down on the McCanns - but there was menace in it, too. Questioned by Sky News reporter Martin Brunt, she said she was "entitled" to tweet as she did - though her justification, without the protective cloak of anonymity, sounded far from confident.
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2629697/exposed-mccann-troll-was-mired-in-loneliness/
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 07:10:22 AM
You asked …   “Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family" please Brietta as I have seen she had a facebook page and may have been a member of forums on many other topics for all we know”

Unfortunately I am spoilt for choice as far as your cite goes.

But think on this, and wonder how you would cope were you to discover that an individual who had an unhealthy obsession with your family had allegedly gone out of her way to wander the streets of your town where they could be walking in ignorance of her presence or even her existence.

Kate McCann and her children could well have been going about their daily lives in their home village unaware that an anonymous individual who professed hatred for the family could be in closer proximity than the fifteen miles between her village and theirs.

I find that a chilling thought.

Snip
"When Madeleine first went missing she used to go over to her home village all the time.
She used to go to the local pub and the shops telling everyone what she thought about the family. It seemed very odd behaviour."
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2629697/exposed-mccann-troll-was-mired-in-loneliness/




The cite(s) you requested ...

'Snip'
However if the law cannot always bring these online offenders to justice then the task inevitably falls to journalists like Brunt. Some have criticised his decision to target Leyland because she did not actually threaten to kill the McCanns, unlike other trolls. But she did send thousands of hate tweets. Some days she would send more than 50 messages attacking the McCanns.

Had she hurled this abuse at the couple in the street, she would have been hauled off in handcuffs. Instead she continued to publish with impunity, safe from scrutiny at home in Burton Overy, just 15 miles from where the McCanns live in Leicestershire. Yes, these were the acts of an obsessed loner but "being an oddball" is not a defence to this sort of criminal behaviour.
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/camilla-tominey/521746/Camilla-Tominey-McCanns-trolls-wake-up-selfies-the-real-Prince-Phillip


"Snip"
When Martin Brunt, the Sky crime correspondent, interviewed Brenda Leyland about her nearly 5,000 tweets which formed part of a vitriolic campaign against the parents of missing toddler Madeleine McCann, she declared that she was doing nothing illegal.
https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/10/07/why-skys-martin-brunt-was-right-investigate-story-mccann-twitter-troll-brenda


"Snip"
First, the entire Twitter history of Ms Leyland’s @SweepyFace Twitter account can currently be viewed and downloaded via GrepTweet  (or here as a .txt file).  There are over 4,000 tweets in the account and all of them appear to be about the McCanns… or rather, about #McCann, the ongoing “he said, she said” debate between pro- and anti- tweeters. 
http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2014/10/07/brenda-leyland-and-twitter-storms/


"Snip"
Yet, hiding behind the alias @sweepyface, she insinuated that the McCanns were implicated in their three-year-old daughter's disappearance during a family holiday in Portugal in 2007 - a theme that had obsessed her for four years. According to the website BuzzFeed, she was sometimes posting more than 50 tweets a day, even on Christmas Eve, from 7am until midnight.
She claimed the McCanns were trying to silence their critics. The accusations were not original but her turn of phrase was blithe and deadly. "You will be hated for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!"
and she developed such an obsession with the McCanns that almost all the 4625 tweets she sent from December 2010 were about the case, many taking issue with their supporters.
It was an industrious hidden life.
Emboldened by disguise, she shared the assumption of all internet trolls that she could say anything she pleased without being held accountable.
As Professor Mary Beard told the London Daily Telegraph when she was campaigning last year against misogynist trolling: "Anonymity has disguised the nature of authorship.
It has allowed these evanescent creatures on the web to blast off without thinking of the victims.
Somehow no-one in this conversation is real. They are just names."

Mrs Leyland tweeted triumphantly at the height of her persecution: "You can move to France, anywhere, but social media is everywhere! Our memories are long, Maddie deserves it."

Her message seemed mild compared with some of the foul-mouthed stuff that has continued to rain down on the McCanns - but there was menace in it, too. Questioned by Sky News reporter Martin Brunt, she said she was "entitled" to tweet as she did - though her justification, without the protective cloak of anonymity, sounded far from confident.
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2629697/exposed-mccann-troll-was-mired-in-loneliness/

Thank you Brietta, your post shows she was very interested in the case and made up to 50 posts per day (some days) but what your post does not show is that "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family". It does not show the time on facebook, shopping on the internet, reading other news, watching videos, listening to music.  So no your cite will not do IMO, sorry.  Almost solely implies at least 90% of her time on the internet was spent looking at things McCann related. Your cites do not do that. 

So I ask again  “Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family"
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 07:37:54 AM
Can people who don't subscribe to social media be a victim of online abuse?

The reality about twitter is that if you are not a subscriber, the only way you would know if someone was posting abusive messages about you is if you were to go looking for them or someone who is a member went looking for them and thereafter told you about it.

It’s a bit like someone who repeats libel being guilty of libel.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 23, 2018, 08:15:09 AM
It’s a bit like someone who repeats libel being guilty of libel.
Doesn’t that rather depend on the context?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 23, 2018, 08:57:10 AM
Can anyone provide a cite that Brenda was being 'abusive' ?

 and what the legal definition of 'online abuse' is?   I would say you can't because it isn't defined in law.

  We have laws already covering harassment and sending 'grossly offensive' materials online. Police did not find Brenda was doing these things, so the claim that she was engaging in abuse which warrants targeting by the media is entirely subjective and it's a moot point even using Brenda being 'abusive' as she broke no law.

 Some posters think it was justified doorstepping a private individual just because one group of people don't like some of the opinions expressed by another?   Maybe China, Russia or Saudi Arabia is the kind of place these people would prefer to live, where discussion on certain subjects is restricted and punished?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 08:59:59 AM
Can anyone provide a cite that Brenda was being 'abusive' ?

 and what the legal definition of 'online abuse' is?   I would say you can't because it isn't defined in law.

  We have laws already covering harassment and sending 'grossly offensive' materials online. Police did not find Brenda was doing these things, so the claim that she was engaging in abuse which warrants targeting by the media is entirely subjective and it's a moot point even using Brenda being 'abusive' as she broke no law.

 Some posters think it was justified doorstepping a private individual just because one group of people don't like some of the opinions expressed by another?   Maybe China, Russia or Saudi Arabia is the kind of place these people would prefer to live, where discussion on certain subjects is restricted and punished?

We have a free press in this country that it seems you and others, want to suppress.... When it suits you
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 23, 2018, 09:01:01 AM
Can anyone provide a cite that Brenda was being 'abusive' ?

 and what the legal definition of 'online abuse' is?   I would say you can't because it isn't defined in law.

  We have laws already covering harassment and sending 'grossly offensive' materials online. Police did not find Brenda was doing these things, so the claim that she was engaging in abuse which warrants targeting by the media is entirely subjective and it's a moot point even using Brenda being 'abusive' as she broke no law.

 Some posters think it was justified doorstepping a private individual just because one group of people don't like some of the opinions expressed by another?   Maybe China, Russia or Saudi Arabia is the kind of place these people would prefer to live, where discussion on certain subjects is restricted and punished?

well said
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 09:03:00 AM
We have a free press in this country that it seems you and others, want to suppress.... When it suits you

Do you want freedom of speech?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 09:08:22 AM
Do you want freedom of speech?

That is rather a silly question.... Total and complete... The right to abuse others.. The right to mock other religions.... Gays...

No I don't....Freedom of speech has to have limitations
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 09:14:07 AM
You asked …   “Do you have a cite for "she did use the internet almost solely to excoriate the McCann family" please Brietta as I have seen she had a facebook page and may have been a member of forums on many other topics for all we know”

Unfortunately I am spoilt for choice as far as your cite goes.

But think on this, and wonder how you would cope were you to discover that an individual who had an unhealthy obsession with your family had allegedly gone out of her way to wander the streets of your town where they could be walking in ignorance of her presence or even her existence.

Kate McCann and her children could well have been going about their daily lives in their home village unaware that an anonymous individual who professed hatred for the family could be in closer proximity than the fifteen miles between her village and theirs.

I find that a chilling thought.

Snip
"When Madeleine first went missing she used to go over to her home village all the time.
She used to go to the local pub and the shops telling everyone what she thought about the family. It seemed very odd behaviour."
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2629697/exposed-mccann-troll-was-mired-in-loneliness/




The cite(s) you requested ...

'Snip'
However if the law cannot always bring these online offenders to justice then the task inevitably falls to journalists like Brunt. Some have criticised his decision to target Leyland because she did not actually threaten to kill the McCanns, unlike other trolls. But she did send thousands of hate tweets. Some days she would send more than 50 messages attacking the McCanns.

Had she hurled this abuse at the couple in the street, she would have been hauled off in handcuffs. Instead she continued to publish with impunity, safe from scrutiny at home in Burton Overy, just 15 miles from where the McCanns live in Leicestershire. Yes, these were the acts of an obsessed loner but "being an oddball" is not a defence to this sort of criminal behaviour.
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/camilla-tominey/521746/Camilla-Tominey-McCanns-trolls-wake-up-selfies-the-real-Prince-Phillip


"Snip"
When Martin Brunt, the Sky crime correspondent, interviewed Brenda Leyland about her nearly 5,000 tweets which formed part of a vitriolic campaign against the parents of missing toddler Madeleine McCann, she declared that she was doing nothing illegal.
https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/10/07/why-skys-martin-brunt-was-right-investigate-story-mccann-twitter-troll-brenda


"Snip"
First, the entire Twitter history of Ms Leyland’s @SweepyFace Twitter account can currently be viewed and downloaded via GrepTweet  (or here as a .txt file).  There are over 4,000 tweets in the account and all of them appear to be about the McCanns… or rather, about #McCann, the ongoing “he said, she said” debate between pro- and anti- tweeters. 
http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2014/10/07/brenda-leyland-and-twitter-storms/


"Snip"
Yet, hiding behind the alias @sweepyface, she insinuated that the McCanns were implicated in their three-year-old daughter's disappearance during a family holiday in Portugal in 2007 - a theme that had obsessed her for four years. According to the website BuzzFeed, she was sometimes posting more than 50 tweets a day, even on Christmas Eve, from 7am until midnight.
She claimed the McCanns were trying to silence their critics. The accusations were not original but her turn of phrase was blithe and deadly. "You will be hated for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!"
and she developed such an obsession with the McCanns that almost all the 4625 tweets she sent from December 2010 were about the case, many taking issue with their supporters.
It was an industrious hidden life.
Emboldened by disguise, she shared the assumption of all internet trolls that she could say anything she pleased without being held accountable.
As Professor Mary Beard told the London Daily Telegraph when she was campaigning last year against misogynist trolling: "Anonymity has disguised the nature of authorship.
It has allowed these evanescent creatures on the web to blast off without thinking of the victims.
Somehow no-one in this conversation is real. They are just names."

Mrs Leyland tweeted triumphantly at the height of her persecution: "You can move to France, anywhere, but social media is everywhere! Our memories are long, Maddie deserves it."

Her message seemed mild compared with some of the foul-mouthed stuff that has continued to rain down on the McCanns - but there was menace in it, too. Questioned by Sky News reporter Martin Brunt, she said she was "entitled" to tweet as she did - though her justification, without the protective cloak of anonymity, sounded far from confident.
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2629697/exposed-mccann-troll-was-mired-in-loneliness/


How anyone can deny that her tweets about the family of a missing child were  obsessive and in some cases quite menacing is a puzzle to me.
I still wonder how anyone can defend this behaviour under the cloak of entitlement to free speech.
Brenda certainly had a strong belief in her own entitlement to express her own dark thoughts.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 09:17:24 AM
That is rather a silly question.... Total and complete... The right to abuse others.. The right to mock other religions.... Gays...

No I don't....Freedom of speech has to have limitations

I said much the same a few days ago.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 09:18:58 AM
That is rather a silly question.... Total and complete... The right to abuse others.. The right to mock other religions.... Gays...

No I don't....Freedom of speech has to have limitations

As should the press.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
As should the press.

As they do.... Was there any complaint Re the press action against Brenda...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 09:26:18 AM
As they do.... Was there any complaint Re the press action against Brenda...

Yes.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
Yes.

And what was the result of the complaint
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 09:37:05 AM
Can anyone provide a cite that Brenda was being 'abusive' ?

 and what the legal definition of 'online abuse' is?   I would say you can't because it isn't defined in law.

  We have laws already covering harassment and sending 'grossly offensive' materials online. Police did not find Brenda was doing these things, so the claim that she was engaging in abuse which warrants targeting by the media is entirely subjective and it's a moot point even using Brenda being 'abusive' as she broke no law.

 Some posters think it was justified doorstepping a private individual just because one group of people don't like some of the opinions expressed by another?   Maybe China, Russia or Saudi Arabia is the kind of place these people would prefer to live, where discussion on certain subjects is restricted and punished?


I spent many years teaching children from age five to eleven.
Children can often blurt out unkind remarks to each other when they are annoyed or feel they have a grievance .
Much time is spent by the teacher in helping the children to become more mature in their behaviour and to find a better way of handling their sense of grievance.
Hopefully by the time they are adults these children will have developed and matured enough to be able to express their grievances without resorting to unkind and abusive language.

Brenda, in my opinion, felt very aggrieved by the parents of a missing child and handled her grievance in a very immature way.
She certainly had the right to express her doubts about the parents of a missing child but she chose to express those doubts in abusive and menacing language in a public arena.
Like the children, her words may not have been criminal but in my opinion they were wrong.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 09:39:29 AM

I spent many years teaching children from age five to eleven.
Children can often blurt out unkind remarks to each other when they are annoyed or feel they have a grievance .
Much time is spent by the teacher in helping the children to become more mature in their behaviour and to find a better way of handling their sense of grievance.
Hopefully by the time they are adults these children will have developed and matured enough to be able to express their grievances without resorting to unkind and abusive language.

Brenda, in my opinion, felt very aggrieved by the parents of a missing child and handled her grievance in a very immature way.
She certainly had the right to express her doubts about the parents of a missing child but she chose to express those doubts in abusive and menacing language in a public arena.
Like the children, her words may not have been criminal but in my opinion they were wrong.

So is “He [Gonçalo Amaral] deserves to be miserable and feel fear” Abuse?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 09:41:45 AM
So is “He [Gonçalo Amaral] deserves to be miserable and feel fear” Abuse?

If it was repeated 50 times, a day for 2 years it would be ( this is a made up number not related to Brenda Leyland )
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 09:42:46 AM
So is “He [Gonçalo Amaral] deserves to be miserable and feel fear” Abuse?

How it be - it was uttered by the saintly Kate
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 09:54:58 AM
How it be - it was uttered by the saintly Kate

I wouldn't describe Kate as a Saint.
One has to be dead to be given that title.

Kate felt that Amaral had abandoned the search for her missing child. You may not agree.
He was accusing them of being complicit in their child's disappearance.

She felt fear and misery because of him.
Rightly or wrongly she expressed the wish that he too might feel the misery and recalled that feeling in her book

Why did Brenda feel so aggrieved?
Why did she feel the need to wish them fear and why spend so much of her time in expressing such dark thoughts about the family of a missing child?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 10:05:25 AM
All tidied.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2018, 10:06:42 AM
Not ridiculous at all, Davel is pursuing a poster over a minor disagreement over definitions yet makes a false claim that Brenda Leyland made 36,500 posts against the McCanns when the inquest heard that She made 400 about the McCanns

To me that indicates rank hypocrisy.

Haven't you noticed that I am being pursued by a poster whose request for a cite was complied with but continues in his/her demand for a cite because the cites I provided didn't for some obscure reason suit?

This "cite" business is becoming rather ridiculous in my opinion when it is misused in the way it is currently being abused on the forum:  it appears to me to be the concerted reflex action of choice to disrupt and goad.

In my opinion we have already had two examples of this already today.

In my opinion it is rather becoming a pattern.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 10:11:23 AM
Haven't you noticed that I am being pursued by a poster whose request for a cite was complied with but continues in his/her demand for a cite because the cites I provided didn't for some obscure reason suit?

This "cite" business is becoming rather ridiculous in my opinion when it is misused in the way it is currently being abused on the forum:  it appears to me to be the concerted reflex action of choice to disrupt and goad.

In my opinion we have already had two examples of this already today.

In my opinion it is rather becoming a pattern.

Now which side was it wanted cites in the first place?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 10:12:47 AM
I wouldn't describe Kate as a Saint.
One has to be dead to be given that title.

Kate felt that Amaral had abandoned the search for her missing child. You may not agree.
He was accusing them of being complicit in their child's disappearance.

She felt fear and misery because of him.
Rightly or wrongly she expressed the wish that he too might feel the misery and recalled that feeling in her book

Why did Brenda feel so aggrieved?
Why did she feel the need to wish them fear and why spend so much of her time in expressing such dark thoughts about the family of a missing child?

And yet she was willing to forgive the alleged abductor.
Strange priorities - to my mind.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 10:12:56 AM
I wouldn't describe Kate as a Saint.
One has to be dead to be given that title.

Kate felt that Amaral had abandoned the search for her missing child. You may not agree.
He was accusing them of being complicit in their child's disappearance.

She felt fear and misery because of him.
Rightly or wrongly she expressed the wish that he too might feel the misery and recalled that feeling in her book

Why did Brenda feel so aggrieved?
Why did she feel the need to wish them fear and why spend so much of her time in expressing such dark thoughts about the family of a missing child?



Obviously because she thought the mcns involved in maddie disappearance.

BL did at one time support the mcns - even adding a substantial amount to the fund.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
Now which side was it wanted cites in the first place?

Could I suggest you stopped seeing posters as having sides... Or holding grudges... And simply judge each post on it's merits
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 10:21:49 AM
Could I suggest you stopped seeing posters as having sides... Or holding grudges... And simply judge each post on it's merits

I then get accused of bias.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 10:22:13 AM


Obviously because she thought the mcns involved in maddie disappearance.

BL did at one time support the mcns - even adding a substantial amount to the fund.

I find that very hard to believe
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 10:23:15 AM


Obviously because she thought the mcns involved in maddie disappearance.

BL did at one time support the mcns - even adding a substantial amount to the fund.


That does not explain her obsession and her use of menacing language.
What did she hope to achieve?

Can I ask how you know that she added "a substantial amount to the fund" ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 10:25:41 AM
And yet she was willing to forgive the alleged abductor.
Strange priorities - to my mind.


Can you give me the cite for "she was willing to forgive the abductor"?

I've read this before and believe she said it in a broadcast but would like to hear her exact words.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 10:27:12 AM

Can you give me the cite for "she was willing to forgive the abductor"?

I've read this before and believe she said it in a broadcast but would like to hear her exact words.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310279/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-Kate-says-forgive-Maddies-abductor.html
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 10:38:34 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310279/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-Kate-says-forgive-Maddies-abductor.html

From the newspaper report.
I COULD probably forgive the abductor, not would.

While her child is still missing, I imagine this would be the message she would wish to impart.

I would like to see the recording of the programme.
It was a religious programme and she was being asked about her Faith.
Was she asked directly about forgiveness?

E TA

I now notice you said "willing".
I suppose we could have an endless debate about the difference in  the meaning of  willing and could and would.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 10:41:22 AM
From the newspaper report.
I COULD probably forgive the abductor, not would.

While her child is still missing, I imagine this would be the message she would wish to impart.

I would like to see the recording of the programme.
It was a religious programme and she was being asked about her Faith.
Was she asked directly about forgiveness?

It's all about context... Taking a statement out of context can totally change it's meaning


The Pope arrives in new York... As he gets off the plane a journalist asks... Will you be going to any night clubs in New York... Pope replies... Are there any night clubs in new York..

Next days papers... First words from pope on arrival...

Are there, any night clubs in new York
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 10:44:58 AM
From the newspaper report.
I COULD probably forgive the abductor, not would.

While her child is still missing, I imagine this would be the message she would wish to impart.

I would like to see the recording of the programme.
It was a religious programme and she was being asked about her Faith.
Was she asked directly about forgiveness?

You are on the verge of becoming as tedious as old "Dangerous"

I made no pretence to quote her actual words, but rather paraphrased the sentiment of what she said.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 10:46:33 AM
It's all about context... Taking a statement out of context can totally change it's meaning

That's why I would like to have a link to the broadcast.
It was a religious programme and I think she was being asked about her Faith and forgiveness.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 10:49:11 AM
That's why I would like to have a link to the broadcast.
It was a religious programme and I think she was being asked about her Faith and forgiveness.

Yes... Context
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 10:56:58 AM
You are on the verge of becoming as tedious as old "Dangerous"

I made no pretence to quote her actual words, but rather paraphrased the sentiment of what she said.


I have no idea of what you are wittering about.
Who is old "Dangerous."

So paraphrasing Kate's words is an acceptable cite.

This paraphrased quote has been used often.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 11:01:43 AM

I have no idea of what you are wittering about.
Who is old "Dangerous."

So paraphrasing Kate's words is an acceptable cite.

This paraphrased quote has been used often.

The cite was the Daily Mail, not my words

Old " Dangerous"? You really must keep - Brietta refereed to Davel as dangerous last night. I'm just spreading her humour
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 11:13:25 AM
The cite was the Daily Mail, not my words

Old " Dangerous"? You really must keep - Brietta refereed to Davel as dangerous last night. I'm just spreading her humour


I do my best to "keep up" but don't have the time or dedication that you seem to have.
So the Daily Mail  8)-)))
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 11:20:32 AM

I do my best to "keep up" but don't have the time or dedication that you seem to have.
So the Daily Mail  8)-)))

Just one of many. Pick another if you don't like that one

https://www.google.com/search?q=kate+mccann+forgives+abductor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 11:24:27 AM
Just one of many. Pick another if you don't like that one

https://www.google.com/search?q=kate+mccann+forgives+abductor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Thank you .
Is there a link to the original broadcast.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 23, 2018, 11:48:39 AM
Thank you .
Is there a link to the original broadcast.


Why don't you go look for it yourself, since you are the one making the claim.

This wondefull  christian gesture of Kate to 'feel she could forgive the abductor' after describing in detail in her book her daughters  possible physical state at the hands of a  P.......phile..  Really is quite telling.

 Comparing to  THE F''KING TO ss   ERS and Amaral to feel the fear it displays an eratic mind. Seriously scarie.

I wonder if MBM can forgive the person/s responsible for her 'disappearance'. Great he mum can though. helps with the guilt and all that.

       
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 11:55:05 AM

Why don't you go look for it yourself, since you are the one making the claim.

This wondefull  christian gesture of Kate to 'feel she could forgive the abductor' after describing in detail in her book her daughters  possible physical state at the hands of a  P.......phile..  Really is quite telling.

 Comparing to  THE F''KING TO ss   ERS and Amaral to feel the fear it displays an eratic mind. Seriously scarie.

I wonder if MBM can forgive the person/s responsible for her 'disappearance'. Great he mum can though. helps with the guilt and all that.

       
IThank you for your polite and carefully worded and measured response.
At a later time today when I have the  time and the inclination, I will attempt to study and decipher your post.
I may or may not bother to reply. ^*&&
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 12:51:32 PM
Brenda Leyland was a woman who seemed to firmly stand behind exactly what she had to say online, using her internet persona '@sweepyface'. She wasn't putting out these 'hateful' tweets or messages because she wanted to annoy, but rather because she thought that a serious miscarriage of justice had taken place at the expense of a young child, and she wanted things to be put right. Whether she is correct in what she believed is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
Brenda Leyland was a woman who seemed to firmly stand behind exactly what she had to say online, using her internet persona '@sweepyface'. She wasn't putting out these 'hateful' tweets or messages because she wanted to annoy, but rather because she thought that a serious miscarriage of justice had taken place at the expense of a young child, and she wanted things to be put right. Whether she is correct in what she believed is another matter entirely.

Just because someone stands firmly behind what they believe does not make that belief correct.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 01:10:17 PM
Just because someone stands firmly behind what they bee does not make that belief correct.

That's what I've been telling supporters for several years.  8)-)))
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 01:13:13 PM
That's what I've been telling supporters for several years.  8)-)))

Likewise to your good self.

Although you don't seem to have any beliefs in this case, just lots of doubts
Brenda didn't seem just to have doubts, more total beliefs.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 23, 2018, 01:16:29 PM
The whole point of the debate is to challenge the content and not the member.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 01:17:39 PM
Likewise to your good self.

Although you don't seem to have any beliefs in this case, just lots of doubts
Brenda didn't seem just to have doubts, more total beliefs.


I think that is the description of a sceptic
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 01:18:14 PM
The whole point of the debate is to challenge the content and not the member. This is all you have done since you 'arrived'.


Nothing wrong  with highlighting abuse... I certainly support it... But I don't have any hatred towards Brenda... More sympathy  for her unhappiness with her life
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
Haven't you noticed that I am being pursued by a poster whose request for a cite was complied with but continues in his/her demand for a cite because the cites I provided didn't for some obscure reason suit?

This "cite" business is becoming rather ridiculous in my opinion when it is misused in the way it is currently being abused on the forum:  it appears to me to be the concerted reflex action of choice to disrupt and goad.

In my opinion we have already had two examples of this already today.

In my opinion it is rather becoming a pattern.

I suppose it depends upon the person as to what is "ridiculous". You implied that Brenda pretty much spent all her time on the internet making posts about the McCanns but you haven't been able to provide a cite.

According to the rules here you could  alter your post and say it was your opinion or provide a cite but without either think you malign Brenda Leyland by implying what you have without any evidence.

You say I am pursuing you for a cite but how many posts last night did Davel make to G-unit for a cite. Considerably more than 3 IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 23, 2018, 01:35:41 PM
The 'cite' becomes an issue when it is made up or it is an opinion dressed as fact.

Brenda has nothing to apologise for imo. She broke no laws. I am of the opinion the pressure and global publicity was instrumental in her becoming 'cornered' as she may not have wanted her family subjected to that kind of exposure.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 01:39:41 PM

I think that is the description of a sceptic


Probably.
But if all someone has are doubts, should they act on those doubts in the way that Brenda and others did and still do?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 01:46:57 PM

Probably.
But if all someone has are doubts, should they act on those doubts in the way that Brenda and others did and still do?

That's for the individual to decide. I limit my action to posting on a relatively benign and ineffectual forum

Hardly world shattering
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 01:48:05 PM

The 'cite' becomes an issue when it is made up or it is an opinion dressed as fact. The supporters really do not have a reasoned argument regarding any thread worthy of having a adult debate.  They are preoccupied with attacking the member. Which is interesting as it shows their lack of integrity as to their claim they care about MBM. When ALL the heads turn to attacking witnesses  who do not show the McCanns as  perfect parents who had a wee whoopsie of a mistake.


Brenda has nothing to apologise for. She broke no law. I am of the opinion the pressure and global publicity was instrumental in her becoming 'cornered' as she may not have wanted her family subjected to that kind of exposure.


'Old Dangerous' post about not hating Brenda doesn't fit with the rest of his posts.

Could you show me one post that indicates hate towards Brenda from me... You do post some rubbish
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 01:53:34 PM
That's for the individual to decide. I limit my action to posting on a relatively benign and ineffectual forum

Hardly world shattering

You are not usually so reticent about giving your opinion on the actions of others.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 23, 2018, 01:56:09 PM
We have a free press in this country that it seems you and others, want to suppress.... When it suits you

When have I ever said I want to suppress the press?   I have talked about balance and fairness. Brenda was one ordinary person pitted against the whole of the UK's media with absolutely no warning. It was not balanced or fair in any conceivable way. I don't believe Sky followed their own guidelines or those of OFCOM but they got away with it anyway.

  You are the one talking about stopping 'abuse' but you won't even define it.  That's picking and choosing things that you personally dislike said online and thinking you have a right to suppress it even when people have done nothing unlawful. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 02:01:40 PM
You are not usually so reticent about giving your opinion on the actions of others.

Indeed and I do it through the medium of this forum. I don't say what others should do
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 02:05:06 PM
I see it looks like supporters are trying to put words into sceptics mouths again, on this thread this time.  IMO that is where some of Brenda Leyland's so called worst tweets came from where she partially quoted a McCann supporter I have read.

So my question to you supporters is, are you on a fishing expedition?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 02:08:26 PM
When have I ever said I want to suppress the press?   I have talked about balance and fairness. Brenda was one ordinary person pitted against the whole of the UK's media with absolutely no warning. It was not balanced or fair in any conceivable way. I don't believe Sky followed their own guidelines or those of OFCOM but they got away with it anyway.

  You are the one talking about stopping 'abuse' but you won't even define it.  That's picking and choosing things that you personally dislike said online and thinking you have a right to suppress it even when people have done nothing unlawful.

Just because something is not unlawful  does not mean it isn't wrong... Sometimes it's the law that needs changing... Have you seen brendas tweets... She, was part of a group directing hate, towards the McCann's..  Hatred, was a word she used... That's abusive imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 23, 2018, 02:09:59 PM
Could you show me one post that indicates hate towards Brenda from me... You do post some rubbish

You said she was abusive- and support the dossier compliers and Sky for doorstepping. that is not thw words of someone who sympythises with her is ?

Just a few posts from you. The Brenda thread back at the time of her death is far more revealing. but many of your posts are deleted.

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #508 on: August 22, 2018, 10:55:37 PM »
•   Quote
its quite obvious Leyland was the perpertartor and the mccanns were the victims....

no sympathy here


Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #486 on: August 22, 2018, 09:51:09 PM »
•   Quote
Quote from: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 09:50:06 PM
cite for supporting online abuse. ta.

do you condemn brenda or not

You seek condemnation of a dead  woman who was  tweeting? not sympathetic here

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #487 on: August 22, 2018, 09:53:07 PM »
•   Quote
Quote from: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 09:49:33 PM

again...do you support the abuse by brenda...'Edited'

You are accusing Brenda of abuse- YOUR interpretation of her tweets- not shwoing sympathy here

Reply #460 on: August 22, 2018, 08:51:50 PM »
I have sympathy with the victims of online abuse but none with the perpertrators...none whatsoever

sympathy?  NONE WHAT SO EVER.  oh dear..

I do not believe you feel sorry for Brenda at all!


Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 23, 2018, 02:14:12 PM

I spent many years teaching children from age five to eleven.
Children can often blurt out unkind remarks to each other when they are annoyed or feel they have a grievance .
Much time is spent by the teacher in helping the children to become more mature in their behaviour and to find a better way of handling their sense of grievance.
Hopefully by the time they are adults these children will have developed and matured enough to be able to express their grievances without resorting to unkind and abusive language.

Brenda, in my opinion, felt very aggrieved by the parents of a missing child and handled her grievance in a very immature way.
She certainly had the right to express her doubts about the parents of a missing child but she chose to express those doubts in abusive and menacing language in a public arena.
Like the children, her words may not have been criminal but in my opinion they were wrong.

This is completely subjective again. You thought the language used was 'abusive' and 'menacing', many others didn't. 

At least you admit it was not criminal. So how was doorstepping Brenda justified just because one group of people thought what she said overstepped their own moral standards? 

    You mention teaching 5 year olds. To me wanting to police what other adults say lawfully online does seem like a school teacher trying to decide what's best for everyone else. You find what Brenda said 'unkind', that's purely your own moral judgement. How many times have the press said 'unkind' things about people? So the public can't say unkind things but the press can?
 The press being encouraged to exact revenge on ordinary people for uttering things others find 'unkind' is an attack on free speech IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 02:14:22 PM
I see it looks like supporters are trying to put words into sceptics mouths again, on this thread this time.  IMO that is where some of Brenda Leyland's so called worst tweets came from where she partially quoted a McCann supporter I have read.

So my question to you supporters is, are you on a fishing expedition?


Can I ask what you mean by your question to supporters?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 02:14:48 PM
You said she was abusive- and support the dossier compliers and Sky for doorstepping. that is not thw words of someone who sympythises with her is ?

Just a few posts from you. The Brenda thread back at the time of her death is far more revealing. but many of your posts are deleted.

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #508 on: August 22, 2018, 10:55:37 PM »
•   Quote
its quite obvious Leyland was the perpertartor and the mccanns were the victims....

no sympathy here


Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #486 on: August 22, 2018, 09:51:09 PM »
•   Quote
Quote from: Miss Taken Identity on August 22, 2018, 09:50:06 PM
cite for supporting online abuse. ta.

do you condemn brenda or not

You seek condemnation of a dead  woman who was  tweeting? not sympathetic here

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #487 on: August 22, 2018, 09:53:07 PM »
•   Quote
Quote from: Sunny on August 22, 2018, 09:49:33 PM

again...do you support the abuse by brenda...'Edited'

You are accusing Brenda of abuse- YOUR interpretation of her tweets- not shwoing sympathy here

Reply #460 on: August 22, 2018, 08:51:50 PM »
I have sympathy with the victims of online abuse but none with the perpertrators...none whatsoever

sympathy?  NONE WHAT SO EVER.  oh dear..

I do not believe you feel sorry for Brenda at all!
So I have not used the word hate...and not directed any hatred towards Brenda... As you have implied... Like others, you take my posts out if context but none talk of hate


My post said I have no sympathy for those who post on-line abuse... I don't... I do have sympathy for those who suffer mental illness... In that respect I have sympathy  for Brenda
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 02:17:18 PM
So I have not used the word hate...and not directed any hatred towards Brenda... As you have implied... Like others, you take my posts out if context but none talk of hate

The irony of all of this is Brenda did tweet about her hatred for the parents of a missing child.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 23, 2018, 02:21:43 PM
Just because something is not unlawful  does not mean it isn't wrong... Sometimes it's the law that needs changing... Have you seen brendas tweets... She, was part of a group directing hate, towards the McCann's..  Hatred, was a word she used... That's abusive imo

  'hating' someone is not against the law. You think it's 'abuse'. How far do you want it to go, no-one online is ever allowed to say they hate someone online?!

   When a driver cuts another driver up and they shout an insult or swear they should be arrested? If you are against abuse why not? It would be a ridiculous notion because people are just expressing how they feel.

Yes I have read Brenda's tweets, I think they are pretty mild to be honest, she wasn't happy with what the McCanns got away with ( leaving the kids) and she was entitled to say so.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 02:23:52 PM
  'hating' someone is not against the law. You think it's 'abuse'. How far do you want it to go, no-one online is ever allowed to say they hate someone online?!

   When a driver cuts another driver up and they shout an insult or swear they should be arrested? If you are against abuse why not? It would be a ridiculous notion because people are just expressing how they feel.

Yes I have read Brenda's tweets, I think they are pretty mild to be honest, she wasn't happy with what the McCanns got away with ( leaving the kids) and she was entitled to say so.

Being part of a, group promoting hatred online is abuse afaiac... And needs to be, stopped... Several young people have committed suicide as a result if it... So in my view the law needs, changing
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 23, 2018, 02:36:07 PM
Being part of a, group promoting hatred online is abuse afaiac... And needs to be, stopped... Several young people have committed suicide as a result if it... So in my view the law needs, changing

Completely subjective again. Just view some of the comments about the McCanns online re. the last round of funding for Operation Grange. They are not popular people judging by the majority opinion. Should all those people be arrested?

  People are allowed to feel hatred and express those emotions, it isn't promoting anything.  People driven to suicide are usually being directly harassed or stalked which there is already a law against, so nothing to do with opinions expressed about the McCanns.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 23, 2018, 02:37:42 PM
So I have not used the word hate...and not directed any hatred towards Brenda... As you have implied... Like others, you take my posts out if context but none talk of hate


My post said I have no sympathy for those who post on-line abuse... I don't... I do have sympathy for those who suffer mental illness... In that respect I have sympathy  for Brenda

I never said you used the word hate.  I am challenging your claim that you have sympathy for Brenda when your posts display a very different view.

I told my neighbour I hate Golf... so shoot me!

Some people feel it is theor right to be loved and respected regardless of their behaviour. Let us make a comparison.

Is leaving your daughter alone everynight to be 'abducted' by a paedophile gang better or worse- than someone saying they hate you.


ummmm yeah tough one that!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 02:43:38 PM

Can you show where  I have ever said she deservedwhat she got?

Can you show the not nice posts I have made about her?

Just because someone stands firmly behind what they bee does not make that belief correct.

Just because someone stands firmly behind what they bee does not make that belief correct


No it doesn't make yours correct either -  Brenda believed in the mcns at on point .


your quote
How anyone can deny that her tweets about the family of a missing child were  obsessive and in some cases quite menacing is a puzzle to me.
I still wonder how anyone can defend this behaviour under the cloak of entitlement to free speech.
Brenda certainly had a strong belief in her own entitlement to express her own dark thoughts



Who are you really to call her obsessive and menacing ....

I for one can relate to her she didn't believe the mcns

I have said similar things my self and would object to being called menacing or obsessive.


Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 02:50:04 PM
I never said you used the word hate.  I am challenging your claim that you have sympathy for Brenda when your posts display a very different view.

I told my neighbour I hate Golf... so shoot me!

Some people feel it is theor right to be loved and respected regardless of their behaviour. Let us make a comparison.

Is leaving your daughter alone everynight to be 'abducted' by a paedophile gang better or worse- than someone saying they hate you.


ummmm yeah tough one that!

It's a very easy one... Hatred has been responsible for millions if deaths
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 02:50:40 PM

Can I ask what you mean by your question to supporters?

I thought my post was quite clear Erngath.   
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 02:52:33 PM
I thought my post was quite clear Erngath.   

Can someone else please explain what this means?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Just because someone stands firmly behind what they bee does not make that belief correct


No it doesn't make yours correct either -  Brenda believed in the mcns at on point .


your quote
How anyone can deny that her tweets about the family of a missing child were  obsessive and in some cases quite menacing is a puzzle to me.
I still wonder how anyone can defend this behaviour under the cloak of entitlement to free speech.
Brenda certainly had a strong belief in her own entitlement to express her own dark thoughts



Who are you really to call her obsessive and menacing ....

I for one can relate to her she didn't believe the mcns

I have said similar things my self and would object to being called menacing or obsessive.



Object all you like.
Within the much applauded and all encompassing freedom of speech which you totally adhere to I have the complete right to say that I find such behaviour obsessive and menacing
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 03:03:49 PM
some supporters said it was  good that brenda  was  dead  on twitter and in some forums they  went   crazy with it no one better bother me with a  cite because i  wont give one  everybody  not obsessed with the mcanns welfare  saw the torrid of abuse brenda  got

Some of that abuse on here carly scroll down a bit.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.qidn61pAq#.hfVEZDyYx
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 23, 2018, 03:10:11 PM
Right, I'm on here now and if anyone cares to post another rude comment prepare to be moderated or suspended for three days.  The mods are fed up having to clean up this mess every day so watch out!!!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 23, 2018, 03:11:05 PM
Today we can disclose some of the appalling comments sent to her. The first states: “Hoping you get beaten so bad you beg for mercy, only to have gasoline thrown on you and set ablaze.”

The next adds: “You have reached the end of your torturing campaign against the McCann family, understand.”

The third message is a direct threat against her life with the sadistic author stating: “Death is waiting and watching for u @sweepyface..Do you feel it????”

The next attack was so disgusting it is unsuitable for publication.

The last message states: “Sweepyface, we’re coming for you. Do you feel us?? The decent kind folk who pray for this family and their sad loss.You go to hell *****.”



https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/169572/Mccann-troll-Brenda-Leyland-driven-to-suicide-after-twitter-death-threats
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 03:12:38 PM
Some of that abuse on here carly scroll down a bit.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.qidn61pAq#.hfVEZDyYx

I see that Brenda tweeted that her hate for Gerry and Kate was "justified"
This hatred she had for Kate and Gerry , a couple she had never met and had no personal experience with must have been very unhealthy for her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 03:13:43 PM
Today we can disclose some of the appalling comments sent to her. The first states: “Hoping you get beaten so bad you beg for mercy, only to have gasoline thrown on you and set ablaze.”

The next adds: “You have reached the end of your torturing campaign against the McCann family, understand.”

The third message is a direct threat against her life with the sadistic author stating: “Death is waiting and watching for u @sweepyface..Do you feel it????”

The next attack was so disgusting it is unsuitable for publication.

The last message states: “Sweepyface, we’re coming for you. Do you feel us?? The decent kind folk who pray for this family and their sad loss.You go to hell *****.”



https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/169572/Mccann-troll-Brenda-Leyland-driven-to-suicide-after-twitter-death-threats

Those tweets, are awful... So are you saying it was the tweets that drove her to commit suicide
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 03:16:37 PM
I see that Brenda tweeted that her hate for Gerry and Kate was "justified"
This hatred she had for Kate and Gerry , a couple she had never met and had no personal experience with must have been very unhealthy for her.

Does anyone have the tweets she was responding to?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 03:22:35 PM


Object all you like.
Within the much applauded and all encompassing freedom of speech which you totally adhere to I have the complete right to say that I find such behaviour obsessive and menacing

I have the complete right to say that I find such behaviour obsessive and menacing

Yes well so was brenda she had the right to say what she did and unlike the mcns she is not here to defend herself is she.

So compassionate person fire away with what you thought of her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 03:28:29 PM
I have the complete right to say that I find such behaviour obsessive and menacing

Yes well so was brenda she had the right to say what she did and unlike the mcns she is not here to defend herself is she.

So compassionate person fire away with what you thought of her.

I think it's fair comment to describe the tweets as obsesive and menacing......
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 03:33:24 PM
Did the dossier compllers provide the complete twitter exchanges or just the those  that were critical of the McCanns?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
I have the complete right to say that I find such behaviour obsessive and menacing

Yes well so was brenda she had the right to say what she did and unlike the mcns she is not here to defend herself is she.

So compassionate person fire away with what you thought of her.

Not nice and I do mean your post.
I have never said one unpleasant work about her.

So just to reiterate.
I think her behaviour in her obsessive and menacing tweets ( in my opinion) was totally unjustified.
I think some of her tweets were extremely unpleasant.
I do not know why anyone would feel the need to spend a great deal of their time doing so.

She looked to be a very attractive lady, seemed educated and articulate.
I feel sad that she chose to end own life.
And I feel even sadder for her sons.



Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 03:38:11 PM
I think it's fair comment to describe the tweets as obsesive and menacing......

No nit if she believed the mcns involved in maddie's disappearance.

She once supported them  and gave to the fund reasonably generously wonder what changed her faith in them
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 03:42:59 PM
Did the dossier compllers provide the complete twitter exchanges or just the those  that were critical of the McCanns?

Exactly Slartibartfast. Some of Brenda's tweets were in reply and used the same wording as twitter posts sent to her. I have read the full exchanges somewhere but I cant remember exactly where at the moment..  The supporters were fishing.


Note: unsubstantiated allegation removed as it requires a cite
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 03:45:13 PM
No nit if she believed the mcns involved in maddie's disappearance.

She once supported them  and gave to the fund reasonably generously wonder what changed her faith in them

How much did she give and how you know about this
Second time of asking.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 03:47:31 PM
Exactly Slartibartfast. Some of Brenda's tweets were in reply and used the same wording as twitter posts sent to her. I have read the full exchanges somewhere but I cant remember exactly where at the moment..  The supporters were fishing.

Without corroboration your post has no validity... I've read them some time ago and didn't see any fishing
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 04:00:51 PM
Without corroboration your post has no validity... I've read them some time ago and didn't see any fishing

Maybe you could find them again and let us all have a look?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 04:04:11 PM
How much did she give and how you know about this
Second time of asking.

Don't know how much she gave it just said reasonably generous.

Some of B Leyland tweets...

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-10/6/6/enhanced/webdr08/longform-original-1512-1412592002-15.png?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)


https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.qidn61pAq#.hfVEZDyYx
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 04:06:32 PM
Maybe you could find them again and let us all have a look?

Maybe the person who claimed supporters were fishing could find them to substantiate her claim
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 04:16:26 PM
Don't know how much she gave it just said reasonably generous.



https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.qidn61pAq#.hfVEZDyYx

I've read that and seem to miss any reference to donation.
I'll read it again later.
If true, then it was indeed very kind of her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 04:17:34 PM
Maybe the person who claimed supporters were fishing could find them to substantiate her claim

I agree.
I want to know what the accusation is about.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 04:33:30 PM
I've read that and seem to miss any reference to donation.
I'll read it again later.
If true, then it was indeed very kind of her.

Well i cant see her lying about it. yes it was very kind of her she seemed a very nice person.

Its just like most the mccns can bring the worst out in you imo


if you look for the below on the link it is the 4th tweet down underneath it

At times, Leyland painted herself almost as a campaigning journalist, as here on 7 December 2013 when she tried to find evidence that royalties from Kate McCann's book were deposited in the Find Madeleine fund.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 04:38:14 PM
Well i cant see her lying about it. yes it was very kind of her she seemed a very nice person.

Its just like most the mccns can bring the worst out in you imo


if you look for the below on the link it is the 4th tweet down underneath it

At times, Leyland painted herself almost as a campaigning journalist, as here on 7 December 2013 when she tried to find evidence that royalties from Kate McCann's book were deposited in the Find Madeleine fund.

Thank you
I see it now.
I didn't realise it was her own tweet.

Why do the McCanns bring out the worst in you or do you mean Brenda or others?
And what do you mean "by the worst"
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 23, 2018, 04:38:40 PM
Don't know how much she gave it just said reasonably generous.

Some of B Leyland tweets...

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-10/6/6/enhanced/webdr08/longform-original-1512-1412592002-15.png?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)


https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/read-the-deleted-tweets-brenda-leyland-sent-the-mccanns?utm_term=.qidn61pAq#.hfVEZDyYx

It is not beyond reason imo to suggest that many people made small donations to the Madeleine Fund initially but subsequently had a change of heart when so much more was known about the case.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 04:41:17 PM
It is not beyond reason imo to suggest that many people made small donations to the Madeleine Fund initially but subsequently had a change of heart when so much more was known about the case.

I can imagine when they were made arguidos some people regretted their decision to give a donation.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 04:55:38 PM
Thank you
I see it now.
I didn't realise it was her own tweet.

Why do the McCanns bring out the worst in you or do you mean Brenda or others?
And what do you mean "by the worst"


Talking personally me and by that i can see - how brenda was not that person IRL and should not be judged by her tweet etc etc.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 04:56:33 PM
It is not beyond reason imo to suggest that many people made small donations to the Madeleine Fund initially but subsequently had a change of heart when so much more was known about the case.

That is correct i know my mother and sister donated several times.

As you say had a change of heart when more was known about the case.

Feeling annoyed [not sure if allowed to quote them] but they felt completely conned.

Also lost any sympathy for the mcns
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 05:02:56 PM
It is not beyond reason imo to suggest that many people made small donations to the Madeleine Fund initially but subsequently had a change of heart when so much more was known about the case.

Depends what they believe... If they believed the dogs scented a cadaver in the apartment and Maddie's blood was found in the hire car then it's no wonder they feel cheated
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 05:16:09 PM
That is correct i know my mother and sister donated several times.

As you say had a change of heart when more was known about the case.

Feeling annoyed [not sure if allowed to quote them] but they felt completely conned.

Also lost any sympathy for the mcns

I see my post has been removed but when I said according to my son Gerry had a lot of support and was, well liked at Leicester I received a lot of abuse from posters here
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2018, 05:28:14 PM
I see my post has been removed but when I said according to my son Gerry had a lot of support and was, well liked at Leicester I received a lot of abuse from posters here

So does that mean you should give abuse back?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 05:32:05 PM
So does that mean you should give abuse back?

I didn't give any abuse back... I merely pointed out that such a claim was uncorroborated... Is that abuse... That rather supports the claim that brendas tweets were abusive
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2018, 06:01:20 PM
I didn't give any abuse back... I merely pointed out that such a claim was uncorroborated... Is that abuse... That rather supports the claim that brendas tweets were abusive

IYO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 23, 2018, 06:05:11 PM
Fun and games.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 06:17:02 PM
IYO

I merely said your post was uncorroborated... If that's abuse what does that make brendas comments of her hatred fir the mccanns
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 23, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
I merely said your post was uncorroborated... If that's abuse what does that make brendas comments of her hatred fir the mccanns
A good test would be, would Brenda's posts on twitter be acceptable on this forum?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 06:31:12 PM
A good test would be, would Brenda's posts on twitter be acceptable on this forum?

I very much hope not.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 23, 2018, 06:34:09 PM
A good test would be, would Brenda's posts on twitter be acceptable on this forum?

Maybe you could start a new thread and we can discuss and  analyse them one by one  8)-)))
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 23, 2018, 06:35:31 PM


Obviously because she thought the mcns involved in maddie disappearance.

BL did at one time support the mcns - even adding a substantial amount to the fund.
So she said.  Any actual evidence of this?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 23, 2018, 06:52:18 PM
So she said.  Any actual evidence of this?

Looks like it's uncorroborated
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 07:40:18 PM
A good test would be, would Brenda's posts on twitter be acceptable on this forum?

Robittybob1 Here is a link to a list of Brenda's tweets  http://themaddiecasefiles.com/sweepyface-tweet-archive-t23555.html

I assume they are all there.

I am sorry everyone but I have been unable to find the information regarding supporters prior posting etc so I retract what I say for now. When I find it I will put it back up.

However I do have this gem I found (this was posted prior to Martin Brunt accosting Brenda in the street)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF63-JwXoAAVlmv.jpg)
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 23, 2018, 07:46:43 PM
Robittybob1 Here is a link to a list of Brenda's tweets  http://themaddiecasefiles.com/sweepyface-tweet-archive-t23555.html

I assume they are all there.

I am sorry everyone but I have been unable to find the information regarding supporters prior posting etc so I retract what I say for now. When I find it I will put it back up.

However I do have this gem I found (this was posted prior to Martin Brunt accosting Brenda in the street)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF63-JwXoAAVlmv.jpg)


No one's home should be disclosed on the internet.

I'm reminded of the leaflet campaign by some  sceptics targeting the homes of the McCann's neighbours
Quite shocking.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 23, 2018, 08:21:54 PM
Her posts weren't abusive or no more abusive than many other tweets I have read since imo.  There is a particularly nasty one called Michael Walker who seems to take delight in calling Brenda sweepyknickers following her death.

One thing I want to say though about Brenda's posts is that I disagree completely with her posts about AT.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 23, 2018, 08:28:00 PM
Her posts weren't abusive or no more abusive than many other tweets I have read since imo.  There is a particularly nasty one called Michael Walker who seems to take delight in calling Brenda sweepyknickers following her death.

One thing I want to say though about Brenda's posts is that I disagree completely with her posts about AT.

Some tweeters simply get carried away with it all and forget the real life consequences which could follow.

Note to members: Do not post comments from anonymous blog sites.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 23, 2018, 09:22:37 PM
Robittybob1 Here is a link to a list of Brenda's tweets  http://themaddiecasefiles.com/sweepyface-tweet-archive-t23555.html

I assume they are all there.

I am sorry everyone but I have been unable to find the information regarding supporters prior posting etc so I retract what I say for now. When I find it I will put it back up.

However I do have this gem I found (this was posted prior to Martin Brunt accosting Brenda in the street)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF63-JwXoAAVlmv.jpg)
Have you read the tweets Brenda made on September 29th?  This is her first one of the day (thanks for the link) written BEFORE the tweet you pictured.  Do you think it (and others)might give that tweet some useful context?  Here it is:

516506719313473536|Mon Sep 29 08:36:12 +0000 2014|#mccann Outing Shills who have threatened others, is no different to FBI releasing name of Jihadi John, 4 good of safety
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 23, 2018, 09:29:22 PM
Another of Brenda’s tweets that morning written BEFORE the tweet pictured above

516511484919439360|Mon Sep 29 08:55:08 +0000 2014|#mccann Not trying to b flippant, however harm is harm in whatever degree , if it silences Amys mischief then that can only be good

The “it” being referred to being the outing of the tweeter she believed to be Amy Tierney.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 12:19:58 AM
IMO it is all madness.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 24, 2018, 06:35:19 AM
So does that mean you should give abuse back?

I didn't see any abuse to that poster, only other posters trying to clarify it.  But then one person's abuse is another person's discussion on here and elsewhere it would seem.

Some people are certainly more sensitive than others when posts are concerned although their own posts may be considered abusive by others. This post is not with any particular poster in mind and is IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 24, 2018, 07:45:10 AM
Another of Brenda’s tweets that morning written BEFORE the tweet pictured above

516511484919439360|Mon Sep 29 08:55:08 +0000 2014|#mccann Not trying to b flippant, however harm is harm in whatever degree , if it silences Amys mischief then that can only be good

The “it” being referred to being the outing of the tweeter she believed to be Amy Tierney.

I take your point Vertigo Swirl and it is duly noted. I have already mentioned my distaste at Brenda's posts about AT already.

Did you see my second image with Vee8's post, that I found using a google image search.  That indicates that he at least had prior knowledge of the dossier and what was about to happen, these happenings of course lead ultimately to Brenda's death. So if Vee8 from that forum knew about the dossier, how many others on there were complicit.

Either that or Vee8 is a psychic.

All IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 07:50:28 AM
I take your point Vertigo Swirl and it is duly noted. I have already mentioned my distaste at Brenda's posts about AT already.

Did you see my second image with Vee8's post, that I found using a google image search.  That indicates that he at least had prior knowledge of the dossier and what was about to happen, these happenings of course lead ultimately to Brenda's death. So if Vee8 from that forum knew about the dossier, how many others on there were complicit.

Either that or Vee8 is a psychic.

All IMO.
You could be giving 99.9% of psychics a bad name.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 08:20:21 AM
we seem to be going away from the thread title...the question is ...did the dossier compilers have the right to go to the ppress...the answer has to be yes...imo....who has the right to stop them
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 08:30:49 AM
we seem to be going away from the thread title...the question is ...did the dossier compilers have the right to go to the ppress...the answer has to be yes...imo....who has the right to stop them
How did you go from this: "Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?" to that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 08:33:29 AM
How did you go from this: "Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?" to that?

because due process means that if the police do not take action the compilers have no right to take the dossier to the press...which supposedely...denies brenda ...due process
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2018, 08:43:11 AM
because due process means that if the police do not take action the compilers have no right to take the dossier to the press...which supposedely...denies brenda ...due process

That way leads to vigilantes.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 08:46:59 AM
That way leads to vigilantes.

brendas way leads to vigilantes.....taking a greivance to the press is perfectly acceptable ......
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2018, 09:11:04 AM
brendas way leads to vigilantes.....taking a greivance to the press is perfectly acceptable ......

So when she was trying to get the press involved it was fine?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 09:21:24 AM
brendas way leads to vigilantes.....taking a greivance to the press is perfectly acceptable ......

Brenda put her opinions across [strongly] but it is what she believed in.

The press were happy enough  to jump on it because of public interest in mcn case.

Imagine someone [maybe already have] taking a dossier on the mcns.

The press would not dare touch it with a barge pole [we no why]

So this is all still very one sided, even though mcns have not been cleared.

When you say Brenda's way leads to vigilantes, you do realise. vigilantes would be mcn supporters.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 09:29:14 AM
So when she was trying to get the press involved it was fine?

Of course... But no need, for abuse
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 09:30:13 AM
So she said.  Any actual evidence of this?

Why would Brenda lie.

Why do you need evidence on this.

Its the evidence of maddie being abducted , you should be more concerned about.

Is there any actual evidence maddie was ....No

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 09:31:22 AM
Brenda put her opinions across [strongly] but it is what she believed in.

The press were happy enough  to jump on it because of public interest in mcn case.

Imagine someone [maybe already have] taking a dossier on the mcns.

The press would not dare touch it with a barge pole [we no why]

So this is all still very one sided, even though mcns have not been cleared.

When you say Brenda's way leads to vigilantes, you do realise. vigilantes would be mcn supporters.

I'm referring to brendas way encouraging people to take vigilante action against the mccanns
You need ti understand that because I'm a, supporter I don't support everything  that every supporter does... I don't support abuse for instance
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 09:33:28 AM
Why would Brenda lie.

Why do you need evidence on this.

Its the evidence of maddie being abducted , you should be more concerned about.

Is there any actual evidence maddie was ....No

Asking for evidence is not accusing someone of lying.... Otherwise anyone could say anything on here and expect it to be accepted  as fact....
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 09:36:32 AM
Brenda put her opinions across [strongly] but it is what she believed in.

The press were happy enough  to jump on it because of public interest in mcn case.

Imagine someone [maybe already have] taking a dossier on the mcns.

The press would not dare touch it with a barge pole [we no why]

So this is all still very one sided, even though mcns have not been cleared.

When you say Brenda's way leads to vigilantes, you do realise. vigilantes would be mcn supporters.


Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the public accusing a couple of being complicit in their child's disappearance.
Vigilantes are the ones who organise meetings to further discuss their campaign progress against the family of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who send FOI requests to obtain information about the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the neighbours of the parents of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who visit and leave a leaflet at the work place of a parent of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who photograph the siblings of a missing child and put said photos on the internet.
 Vigilantes are those who set up Facebook sites dedicated to maligning the parents of a missing child.
I'm sure I haven't listed all the vigilante behaviour.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 09:56:07 AM

Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the public accusing a couple of being complicit in their child's disappearance.
Vigilantes are the ones who organise meetings to further discuss their campaign progress against the family of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who send FOI requests to obtain information about the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the neighbours of the parents of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who visit and leave a leaflet at the work place of a parent of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who photograph the siblings of a missing child and put said photos on the internet.
 Vigilantes are those who set up Facebook sites dedicated to maligning the parents of a missing child.
I'm sure I haven't listened all the vigilante behaviour.

None of the listed are actually a crime are they.

Same as Brenda was not commiting a crime.

Maybe you dont understand the vigilate meaning. so i have looked it up E

Imo what the above did was to do just that.



Vigilante is a form of the word "vigilant," which means keeping a watchful or close eye on events and people. Sometimes a vigilante will make news for catching a criminal, and sometimes vigilante groups form to target crimes in a bad neighborhood.
vigilante - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vigilante
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 09:58:42 AM
None of the listed are actually a crime are they.

Same as Brenda was not commiting a crime.

Maybe you dont understand the vigilate meaning. so i have looked it up E

Imo what the above did was to do just that.



Vigilante is a form of the word "vigilant," which means keeping a watchful or close eye on events and people. Sometimes a vigilante will make news for catching a criminal, and sometimes vigilante groups form to target crimes in a bad neighborhood.
vigilante - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vigilante


You obviously think the behaviour I listed is perfectly acceptable.
I don't.

How you can believe it is acceptable to leaflet the McCanns neighbours or put photographs of Madeleine's siblings on the internet is acceptable is beyond my understanding?
That behaviour may not be criminal but it is most certainly not within the bounds of common decency.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 24, 2018, 09:59:49 AM
None of the listed are actually a crime are they.

Same as Brenda was not commiting a crime.

Maybe you dont understand the vigilate meaning. so i have looked it up E

Imo what the above did was to do just that.



Vigilante is a form of the word "vigilant," which means keeping a watchful or close eye on events and people. Sometimes a vigilante will make news for catching a criminal, and sometimes vigilante groups form to target crimes in a bad neighborhood.
vigilante - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vigilante

i find the wording the family     of a  missiing child emotional blackmail if maddie is    alive she isnt a  child anymore  its just emotional properganda  IMO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 10:04:23 AM
i find the wording the family     of a  missiing child emotional blackmail if maddie is    alive she isnt a  child anymore  its just emotional properganda  IMO

She was a missing CHILD when these abhorrent, IMO ,behaviours were enacted!

Reading my posts?
Not on ignore?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 10:19:08 AM
Everyone  has the right to take their concerns to the press... It's ridiculous to try and restrict this right
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 10:35:04 AM

You obviously think the behaviour I listed is perfectly acceptable.
I don't.

How you can believe it is acceptable to leaflet the McCanns neighbours or put photographs of Madeleine's siblings on the internet is acceptable is beyond my understanding?
That behaviour may not be criminal but it is most certainly not within the bounds of common decency.

Ihave no problem with what anyone does - to get to the truth of what happened to maddie.


That behaviour is obviously from people who do not believe maddie was abducted.

How can it be acceptable to leave babies on there own

How can you call spending other peoples money to do a witch hunt on GA etc etc common decency.

There is many photos of mcn twins on internet allowed by mcns when it suits.

You believe mcns did nothing wrong ...I Don't.

And neither did brenda leyland.

She never had the chance to say why she did it apart from being entitled - and she was.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 10:37:04 AM
Ihave no problem with what anyone does - to get to the truth of what happened to maddie.


That behaviour is obviously from people who do not believe maddie was abducted.

How can it be acceptable to leave babies on there own

How can you call spending other peoples money to do a witch hunt on GA etc etc common decency.

There is many photos of mcn twins on internet allowed by mcns when it suits.

You believe mcns did nothing wrong ...I Don't.

And neither did brenda leyland.

She never had the chance to say why she did it apart from being entitled - and she was.

All this is off topic... Or is every thread going to be an acceptable  child care thread
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 24, 2018, 10:38:50 AM
  Remember the Lord MacAlpine debacle?

He was outed ( by a concerned citizen) on live TV as being a suspect of child abuse.  He won various apologies, damages and OFCOM ruled;

' both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.'

He was found to have done nothing illegal. So why did he get apologies and damages when Brenda got thrown to the dogs?  Is it because he had more money and influence than she did and she was a disposable 'no-body'?

Quote
During a live broadcast of This Morning on 8 November 2012, presenter Phillip Schofield produced a list of people linked to allegations of child abuse, which he said he had put together by searching on the internet.

He handed the list - which included Lord McAlpine's name - to Prime Minister David Cameron, asking whether there should be an overarching inquiry into the recent scandal.

The list was briefly and inadvertently broadcast by ITV.

ITV accepted this was "an uncharacteristic lapse in editorial judgement on the part of the programme's editorial team".

Ofcom ruled both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.

Both the BBC and ITV subsequently apologised to Lord McAlpine and paid substantial libel damages.

At the time the Tory peer had said it was "terrifying" to find himself "a figure of public hatred".

ITV also fell foul of rules relating to providing adequate protection for members of the public from the inclusion of harmful material.


 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 10:40:43 AM
Ihave no problem with what anyone does - to get to the truth of what happened to maddie.


That behaviour is obviously from people who do not believe maddie was abducted.

How can it be acceptable to leave babies on there own

How can you call spending other peoples money to do a witch hunt on GA etc etc common decency.

There is many photos of mcn twins on internet allowed by mcns when it suits.

You believe mcns did nothing wrong ...I Don't.

And neither did brenda leyland.

She never had the chance to say why she did it apart from being entitled - and she was.

Your attitude and philosophy is neatly stated in this part of your post."I have no problem with what anyone does-to get to the truth of what happened to Maddie"
Exactly!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 10:43:30 AM
All this is off topic... Or is every thread going to be an acceptable  child care thread

It' has developed into what is acceptable behaviour on the part of sceptics and supporters in the aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2018, 10:45:19 AM
  Remember the Lord MacAlpine debacle?

He was outed ( by a concerned citizen) on live TV as being a suspect of child abuse.  He won various apologies, damages and OFCOM ruled;

' both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.'

He was found to have done nothing illegal. So why did he get apologies and damages when Brenda got thrown to the dogs?  Is it because he had more money and influence than she did and she was a disposable 'no-body'?


Quite possibly because he was still alive to fight his case while she was dead.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
  Remember the Lord MacAlpine debacle?

He was outed ( by a concerned citizen) on live TV as being a suspect of child abuse.  He won various apologies, damages and OFCOM ruled;

' both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.'

He was found to have done nothing illegal. So why did he get apologies and damages when Brenda got thrown to the dogs?  Is it because he had more money and influence than she did and she was a disposable 'no-body'?
snip
  Remember the Lord MacAlpine debacle?

He was outed ( by a concerned citizen) on live TV as being a suspect of child abuse.  He won various apologies, damages and OFCOM ruled;

' both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.'

He was found to have done nothing illegal. So why did he get apologies and damages when Brenda got thrown to the dogs?  Is it because he had more money and influence than she did and she was a disposable 'no-body'?



Exactly great post it more or less what i was trying to point out

Brenda didn't have the money

T
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 10:49:51 AM
Your attitude and philosophy is neatly stated in this part of your post."I have no problem with what anyone does-to get to the truth of what happened to Maddie"
Exactly!

OH right  @)(++(*

Well i would certainly have my due process if anyone doorstepped me. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Gertrude on August 24, 2018, 10:54:01 AM

Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the public accusing a couple of being complicit in their child's disappearance.
Vigilantes are the ones who organise meetings to further discuss their campaign progress against the family of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who send FOI requests to obtain information about the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the neighbours of the parents of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who visit and leave a leaflet at the work place of a parent of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who photograph the siblings of a missing child and put said photos on the internet.
 Vigilantes are those who set up Facebook sites dedicated to maligning the parents of a missing child.
I'm sure I haven't listened all the vigilante behaviour.

  The definition of vigilante is  "a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate."

 Dropping leaflets is not 'law enforcement' and neither is setting up facebook sites, or sending off for FOI requests. Do you really think people who lawfully request information are doing something wrong?

   The taking of photographs thing would be stalking, which is an offence obviously. The things you listed are irrelevant to Brenda Leyland, as she didn't do any of them.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 10:56:19 AM
OH right  @)(++(*

Well i would certainly have my due process if anyone doorstepped me. 8((()*/


You obviously approve of the vigilante type action of those sceptics involved in that behaviour.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 10:58:12 AM
OH right  @)(++(*

Well i would certainly have my due process if anyone doorstepped me. 8((()*/

What would you do
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 10:58:52 AM
  The definition of vigilante is  "a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate."

 Dropping leaflets is not 'law enforcement' and neither is setting up facebook sites, or sending off for FOI requests. Do you really think people who lawfully request information are doing something wrong?

   The taking of photographs thing would be stalking, which is an offence obviously. The things you listed are irrelevant to Brenda Leyland, as she didn't do any of them.

Change my post to vigilante type of behaviour then and it applies to the disgraceful behaviour listed.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 24, 2018, 11:01:36 AM

Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the public accusing a couple of being complicit in their child's disappearance.
Vigilantes are the ones who organise meetings to further discuss their campaign progress against the family of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who send FOI requests to obtain information about the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the neighbours of the parents of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who visit and leave a leaflet at the work place of a parent of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who photograph the siblings of a missing child and put said photos on the internet.
 Vigilantes are those who set up Facebook sites dedicated to maligning the parents of a missing child.
I'm sure I haven't listed all the vigilante behaviour.

Not really a strict definition of what a vigilante is.  People who participate in those sort of activities you listed are trouble makers or hooligans imo.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 11:04:24 AM
Not really a strict definition of what a vigilante is.  People who participate in those activities you listed are trouble makers.

The word vigilante was brought into the thread and I used it to make my post.
I agree trouble makers would be a better word but I still find some of the behaviour verging on vigilante type of behaviour.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 24, 2018, 11:08:00 AM
  Remember the Lord MacAlpine debacle?

He was outed ( by a concerned citizen) on live TV as being a suspect of child abuse.  He won various apologies, damages and OFCOM ruled;

' both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.'

He was found to have done nothing illegal. So why did he get apologies and damages when Brenda got thrown to the dogs?  Is it because he had more money and influence than she did and she was a disposable 'no-body'?

Could it be that some of the comments made by BL as @sweepyface were morally wrong rather than being illegal?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 11:09:07 AM
Could it be that some of the comments made by BL as @sweepyface were morally wrong rather than being illegal?

Of course
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2018, 12:05:40 PM
Not really a strict definition of what a vigilante is.  People who participate in those sort of activities you listed are trouble makers or hooligans imo.

That description could equally apply to the dossier makers - IMO
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 12:18:29 PM

You obviously approve of the vigilante type action of those sceptics involved in that behaviour.

what behaviour, what vigilanti type action.

You are either a vigilante or not - what you posted in your list was not vigilantes.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 12:20:13 PM
What would you do


What i do - what i am entitled to do.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 12:21:09 PM

Quite possibly because he was still alive to fight his case while she was dead.
At least you are observant.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2018, 12:29:33 PM
At least you are observant.

Oh aye, Hawkeye that's me.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 12:32:23 PM
what behaviour, what vigilanti type action.

You are either a vigilante or not - what you posted in your list was not vigilantes.

Ok.

Most of it was exceptionally disgraceful, against most people's sense of decency , completely unwarranted and troublesome.
Better ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 12:33:07 PM
Oh aye, Hawkeye that's me.
M.A.S.H
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2018, 12:34:48 PM
M.A.S.H

Very appropriate, the title of the theme song being 'Suicide is painless'
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 12:40:09 PM
Very appropriate, the title of the theme song being 'Suicide is painless'

Sadly not to those left behind.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2018, 12:43:33 PM
  Remember the Lord MacAlpine debacle?

He was outed ( by a concerned citizen) on live TV as being a suspect of child abuse.  He won various apologies, damages and OFCOM ruled;

' both programmes had breached the broadcasting code and had treated Lord McAlpine unfairly, causing him distress and embarrassment.'

He was found to have done nothing illegal. So why did he get apologies and damages when Brenda got thrown to the dogs?  Is it because he had more money and influence than she did and she was a disposable 'no-body'?

Do you have any idea what Brenda Leyland's economic situation was to enable you to make that assessment which sounds a bit like the tired old class argument used by some in relation to Madeleine's family v council house families.

Lord McCalpine took legal action and won redress as a result.  Tragically Brenda Leyland did not and denied herself the right to use the due process referred to in the thread title.

Ironically Gerry McCann was actively campaigning to allow ordinary individuals a measure of protection from press barons and intrusion while Brenda Leland was busying herself in her tweeting campaign involving him and his family.
Funny old world.

Snip
In the statement, the McCanns said: “Despite the history of admitted libels in respect of my family by so many newspapers, the Sunday Times still felt able to print an indefensible front page story last year and then force us to instruct lawyers – and even to start court proceedings – before it behaved reasonably. But the damage to reputation and to feelings has been done and the Sunday Times can sit back and enjoy its sales boost based on lies and abuse.

“This is exactly why parliament and Lord Justice Leveson called for truly effective independent self-regulation of newspapers – to protect ordinary members of the public from this sort of abuse. The fact is that most families could not take the financial and legal risk of going to the high court and facing down a big press bully as we have. That is why News UK and the big newspapers have opposed Leveson’s reforms and the arbitration scheme which is a necessary part of it.”

Carter-Ruck agreed to act on a no-win, no-fee basis, a system threatened by proposed changes to the law. The £55,000 is to be donated to two charities for missing people and sick children.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/02/gerry-mccann-madeleine-sunday-times-libel-payout
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 12:48:39 PM
Very appropriate, the title of the theme song being 'Suicide is painless'

Sorry I didn't mean to be callous.  I had forgotten that till you reminded me.

The song ends "and you can do the same thing if you please".    Strange to have a song that advocates suicide on a very popular program in its day.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 12:52:51 PM
You are making a very serious accusation there carly.    No one knows what drove BL to kill herself,  she had attempted it once before.   It could have been a row with one of her sons for example.   Martin Brunt stated she was in a good frame of mind when he last spoke to her.


IMO you are very very wrong with that post L

nothing to do with any row with sons


Asked by the coroner if there was anything which indicated a concern for her life, Mr Brunt said: "No, but when I asked her how she was, she said 'oh I have thought about ending it all but I am feeling better - I have had a drink and spoken to my son'".



The key issues in this case skilfully avoided and evaded by everyone - a vulnerable woman

pushed over the edge by a bullying, story-hungry, pro-McCann media empire,

A and no-one seems to bat an eyelid or raise even a whisper of protest. IMO



Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 12:53:52 PM
Ok.

Most of it was exceptionally disgraceful, against most people's sense of decency , completely unwarranted and troublesome.
Better ?

You don't have to please me E

But thanks for the attempt.  8((()*/

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 01:00:40 PM
Do you have any idea what Brenda Leyland's economic situation was to enable you to make that assessment which sounds a bit like the tired old class argument used by some in relation to Madeleine's family v council house families.

Lord McCalpine took legal action and won redress as a result.  Tragically Brenda Leyland did not and denied herself the right to use the due process referred to in the thread title.

Ironically Gerry McCann was actively campaigning to allow ordinary individuals a measure of protection from press barons and intrusion while Brenda Leland was busying herself in her tweeting campaign involving him and his family.
Funny old world.

Snip
In the statement, the McCanns said: “Despite the history of admitted libels in respect of my family by so many newspapers, the Sunday Times still felt able to print an indefensible front page story last year and then force us to instruct lawyers – and even to start court proceedings – before it behaved reasonably. But the damage to reputation and to feelings has been done and the Sunday Times can sit back and enjoy its sales boost based on lies and abuse.

“This is exactly why parliament and Lord Justice Leveson called for truly effective independent self-regulation of newspapers – to protect ordinary members of the public from this sort of abuse. The fact is that most families could not take the financial and legal risk of going to the high court and facing down a big press bully as we have. That is why News UK and the big newspapers have opposed Leveson’s reforms and the arbitration scheme which is a necessary part of it.”

Carter-Ruck agreed to act on a no-win, no-fee basis, a system threatened by proposed changes to the law. The £55,000 is to be donated to two charities for missing people and sick children.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/02/gerry-mccann-madeleine-sunday-times-libel-payout


Ironically Gerry McCann was actively campaigning to allow ordinary individuals a measure of protection from press barons and intrusion while Brenda Leland was busying herself in her tweeting campaign involving him and his family.
Funny old world.



In short.

None of the messages sent by Brenda Leyland were directed personally at the mcns,


It wasn't a campaign it was her right. of opinion and free speech B
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 01:01:29 PM

What i do - what i am entitled to do.

You are not entitled to do much... That's why I asked
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 01:03:14 PM

Ironically Gerry McCann was actively campaigning to allow ordinary individuals a measure of protection from press barons and intrusion while Brenda Leland was busying herself in her tweeting campaign involving him and his family.
Funny old world.



In short.

None of the messages sent by Brenda Leyland were directed personally at the mcns,


It wasn't a campaign it was her right. of opinion and free speech B

They don't have to be directed personally  towards the McCann's... Brenda enjoyed her free speech..... And so did Brunt and the newspapers
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: misty on August 24, 2018, 01:21:12 PM
Did it sound as if Brenda was suicidal based on this tweet?


516626506563731457|Mon Sep 29 16:32:12 +0000 2014|@RothleyPillow #mccann I am not suffering, the stalking and threats have been most useful for me, cannot thank the perps enough
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 01:43:23 PM
You are not entitled to do much... That's why I asked



Maybe not , thanks to the mccanns and the fund they used to put that in place.

back on topic.

They don't have to be directed personally  towards the McCann's... Brenda enjoyed her free speech..... And so did Brunt and the newspapers

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2018, 01:57:30 PM

IMO you are very very wrong with that post L

nothing to do with any row with sons


Asked by the coroner if there was anything which indicated a concern for her life, Mr Brunt said: "No, but when I asked her how she was, she said 'oh I have thought about ending it all but I am feeling better - I have had a drink and spoken to my son'".



The key issues in this case skilfully avoided and evaded by everyone - a vulnerable woman

pushed over the edge by a bullying, story-hungry, pro-McCann media empire,

A and no-one seems to bat an eyelid or raise even a whisper of protest. IMO

Suicide and what drives individuals to it is a far more complex issue than you are crediting it with.  The inquest verdict pointed the finger of blame at no-one ... in my opinion it is inappropriate for anyone to second guess that.

Brenda's son who seems to have been her confidant ... even with knowledge of his mother's medical history and previous suicidal tendencies ... did not suspect anything was amiss with her and thought when he couldn't reach her she was merely lying low.

Snip
Leyand’s younger son, Ben, who was not present, said in a statement she was a loving mother, a proud and stubborn woman, and “could not bear to think she could be disliked by those in her community”. He said she suffered from extreme bouts of depression and anxiety and was on medication.

Before the Sky News approach, she had been upset by a “fractious” dispute with a neighbour over an issue concerning a wall.

He had “no doubt” from the panic in his mother’s voice when she telephoned to tell him of the Sky News incident that “this was the final straw that pushed her then to do what she did”.

He said his mother was “completely destroyed” by what had occurred. He was trying to organise legal advice for her, he said. In her last email to him, she said she felt “cheerier”.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/20/sky-news-mccann-brenda-leyland

So why Martin Brunt should have suspected her vulnerability is a mystery to me ... almost as much of a mystery as why her family's obvious desire for privacy is abused and why Brenda Leyland herself is not allowed to rest in peace in the anonymity she valued as some insist more than life itself.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 01:58:48 PM
They don't have to be directed personally  towards the McCann's... Brenda enjoyed her free speech..... And so did Brunt and the newspapers






For me, it highlights that Sky and all involved in the decision making processes within it, are just part of the Establishment.

Certainly with regards to the McCann affair, Sky have demonstrated a bias in the reporting, offering the viewers a one-sided account.

A Broadcaster should be impartial and unbiased.Cover all opinions equally.

I hardly think that Sky have been anywhere near those values in the McCann case.

Instead, individuals who voice concerns about the honesty and innocence of the mcns

in the disappearance of maddie, are targeted as 'trolls'.

Sky took a pathetic dossier of alleged 'abusive' comments about the mcns as a reason to support the parents.


some how included in davels quote apologies
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2018, 02:02:00 PM





For me, it highlights that Sky and all involved in the decision making processes within it, are just part of the Establishment.

Certainly with regards to the McCann affair, Sky have demonstrated a bias in the reporting, offering the viewers a one-sided account.

A Broadcaster should be impartial and unbiased.Cover all opinions equally.

I hardly think that Sky have been anywhere near those values in the McCann case.

Instead, individuals who voice concerns about the honesty and innocence of the mcns

in the disappearance of maddie, are targeted as 'trolls'.

Sky took a pathetic dossier of alleged 'abusive' comments about the mcns as a reason to support the parents.


some how included in davels quote apologies

Brenda was offered the opportunity to make her case on prime time television by Martin Brunt ... what I would call the right of reply ... she didn't avail herself of it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 02:08:29 PM
Suicide and what drives individuals to it is a far more complex issue than you are crediting it with.  The inquest verdict pointed the finger of blame at no-one ... in my opinion it is inappropriate for anyone to second guess that.

Brenda's son who seems to have been her confidant ... even with knowledge of his mother's medical history and previous suicidal tendencies ... did not suspect anything was amiss with her and thought when he couldn't reach her she was merely lying low.

Snip
Leyand’s younger son, Ben, who was not present, said in a statement she was a loving mother, a proud and stubborn woman, and “could not bear to think she could be disliked by those in her community”. He said she suffered from extreme bouts of depression and anxiety and was on medication.

Before the Sky News approach, she had been upset by a “fractious” dispute with a neighbour over an issue concerning a wall.

He had “no doubt” from the panic in his mother’s voice when she telephoned to tell him of the Sky News incident that “this was the final straw that pushed her then to do what she did”.

He said his mother was “completely destroyed” by what had occurred. He was trying to organise legal advice for her, he said. In her last email to him, she said she felt “cheerier”.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/20/sky-news-mccann-brenda-leyland

So why Martin Brunt should have suspected her vulnerability is a mystery to me ... almost as much of a mystery as why her family's obvious desire for privacy is abused and why Brenda Leyland herself is not allowed to rest in peace in the anonymity she valued as some insist more than life itself.


So why Martin Brunt should have suspected her vulnerability is a mystery to me ... almost as much of a mystery as why her family's obvious desire for privacy is abused and why Brenda Leyland herself is not allowed to rest in peace in the anonymity she valued as some insist more than life itself.


Brunt spoke with her inside and out the house, he imo will have seen that distress.

He called Brenda she told him she was thinking of ending it all

opening post
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?



Alive or dead brenda Did nothing wrong ....that is my point.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 02:13:19 PM
Brenda was offered the opportunity to make her case on prime time television by Martin Brunt ... what I would call the right of reply ... she didn't avail herself of it.


No she killed herself instead, brunt told her she was being reported to CPS.

Her son said

He said she was 'proud but stubborn’, was worried about how she was viewed by others in her 'social circle’, and her exposure as a troll was the 'final straw

In her state she wasn't going to hang around.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 02:14:23 PM

No she killed herself instead, brunt told her she was being reported to CPS.

Her son said

He said she was 'proud but stubborn’, was worried about how she was viewed by others in her 'social circle’, and her exposure as a troll was the 'final straw

In her state she wasn't going to hang around.

Final straw... So she, was already nearly there
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2018, 04:46:37 PM
Sorry I didn't mean to be callous.  I had forgotten that till you reminded me.

The song ends "and you can do the same thing if you please".    Strange to have a song that advocates suicide on a very popular program in its day.

If you watch the film it has very different connotations.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2018, 04:48:20 PM
Did it sound as if Brenda was suicidal based on this tweet?


516626506563731457|Mon Sep 29 16:32:12 +0000 2014|@RothleyPillow #mccann I am not suffering, the stalking and threats have been most useful for me, cannot thank the perps enough

The day before the doorstepping.

No she didn’t, shows what effect it had.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 05:05:37 PM
The day before the doorstepping.

No she didn’t, shows what effect it had.


Seems she did the next day


 

Daily Mirror

Madeleine McCann: Sky News journalist 'devastated' after being told internet troll killed herself following TV report
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-sky-news-journalist-5371486
15:34, 20 March 2015
By Martin Fricker


snip

Targeted: Kate McCann and her husband Gerry McCann
Her messages featured in a dossier of evidence given to Scotland Yard about suspected online hounding of the McCanns.
She was confronted at her home in Burton Overy, Leics, by Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt last September.
After her face appeared in a broadcast on the TV channel two days later, Mrs Leyland checked into a Leicester hotel and killed herself.
Mr Brunt told her inquest today he was left “devastated” after being told about her death by his boss, Sky News head Jonathan Levy.
“I was devastated and I still am,” he added. “The enormity of what happened will always be with me."
Her son Ben Leyland, who lives in America, said her ‘outing’ as @sweepyface left his mother “a broken wreck”.
He added: "She was completely destroyed by what had occurred. It was the final straw that pushed my mum to do what she did."
Mr Brunt told the hearing at Leicester Town Hall how he discovered Mrs Leyland’s identity after being handed the dossier by a third party.
He went to her home with a cameraman on September 30 last year and confronted her about the tweets - which were later found to not be unlawful.
Mrs Leyland invited him into her home after the initial confrontation and seemed “calm” and rational, he added.
She told him she was “entitled” to tweet her concerns the McCanns had left their children alone on the night Madeleine disappeared in 2007.
Mr Brunt, a respected veteran journalist, said he ended the conversation by telling her: “I hope I have not ruined your day”.
She replied: “I don’t know yet if you have ruined my day or my life."



Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 05:18:48 PM
"She replied: “I don’t know yet if you have ruined my day or my life.""  The only reason we know this is that Martin Brunt reported it to us.

It shows she was suicidal at that time IMO.  Probably went unnoticed at the time.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:31:40 PM
Why would Brenda lie.

Why do you need evidence on this.

Its the evidence of maddie being abducted , you should be more concerned about.

Is there any actual evidence maddie was ....No
Why would she lie about giving a substantial donation to the Madeleine Fund?  I think the answer’s obvious.  It gives her (in her view) a legitimate grievance, as a donor to the fund.  If she hadn’t donated to the fund she has less of a right to compain about it IMO.  It makes her look good too, doesn’t it?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 24, 2018, 05:35:12 PM
"She replied: “I don’t know yet if you have ruined my day or my life.""  The only reason we know this is that Martin Brunt reported it to us.

It shows she was suicidal at that time IMO.  Probably went unnoticed at the time.

She had attempted suicide before.
There must have been reasons which led her to attempt to take her own life long before the exposure on television.
Recently a young lad known to my grandson hanged himself after a quarrel with his girlfriend.
Noone not even his parents ever, ever imagined he would end his life.
The sadness left behind is unrelenting.

So much of the sympathy shown is for the person who chose to end their own life but as someone who witnessed the devastating effect of the suicides of parents of pupils, my sympathy is for those who have to carry the burden of living with the fact that a loved family member chose to die and leave them.
Heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:37:43 PM
i find the wording the family     of a  missiing child emotional blackmail if maddie is    alive she isnt a  child anymore  its just emotional properganda  IMO
When did Madeleine cease beimg a child then?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:39:06 PM

Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the public accusing a couple of being complicit in their child's disappearance.
Vigilantes are the ones who organise meetings to further discuss their campaign progress against the family of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who send FOI requests to obtain information about the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who leaflet the neighbours of the parents of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who visit and leave a leaflet at the work place of a parent of a missing child.
Vigilantes are the ones who photograph the siblings of a missing child and put said photos on the internet.
 Vigilantes are those who set up Facebook sites dedicated to maligning the parents of a missing child.
I'm sure I haven't listed all the vigilante behaviour.
Vigilantes put out an apb on social media alerting other like minded souls of the exact whereabouts of their targets, like in a restaurant for example.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:42:31 PM
Ihave no problem with what anyone does - to get to the truth of what happened to maddie.


That behaviour is obviously from people who do not believe maddie was abducted.

How can it be acceptable to leave babies on there own

How can you call spending other peoples money to do a witch hunt on GA etc etc common decency.

There is many photos of mcn twins on internet allowed by mcns when it suits.

You believe mcns did nothing wrong ...I Don't.

And neither did brenda leyland.

She never had the chance to say why she did it apart from being entitled - and she was.
That’s why people like us supporters have a problem with you “justice seekers”, the fact that you see nothing wrong with the kind of behaviour listed by Erngarth, but fall into a righteous fury because someone compiled a dossier of abuse directed towards this family and passed it on to the police and media frankly boggles the mind.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:45:48 PM
Very appropriate, the title of the theme song being 'Suicide is painless'
I always found that an absurd lyric.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:47:59 PM

Ironically Gerry McCann was actively campaigning to allow ordinary individuals a measure of protection from press barons and intrusion while Brenda Leland was busying herself in her tweeting campaign involving him and his family.
Funny old world.



In short.

None of the messages sent by Brenda Leyland were directed personally at the mcns,


It wasn't a campaign it was her right. of opinion and free speech B
The dossier compilers had the right to do what they did too, as did Martin Brunt.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2018, 05:48:20 PM
Why would she lie about giving a substantial donation to the Madeleine Fund?  I think the answer’s obvious.  It gives her (in her view) a legitimate grievance, as a donor to the fund.  If she hadn’t donated to the fund she has less of a right to compain about it IMO.  It makes her look good too, doesn’t it?

Why did brenda at that time need to look good - why would she have too...and who for.

Her grievance was the mccs leaving there children alone etc etc

So already had a legitimate reason.

IMO you believe everything mccn says - so why not brenda leyland.

As she said she donated when she believed in them- you cant really prove otherwise VS
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 24, 2018, 05:55:32 PM
Why did brenda at that time need to look good - why would she have too...and who for.

Her grievance was the mccs leaving there children alone etc etc

So already had a legitimate reason.

IMO you believe everything mccn says - so why not brenda leyland.

As she said she donated when she believed in them- you cant really prove otherwise VS
She made the comment as part of a twitter discussion, no doubt to try and give herself the moral high ground.  I don’t know if she actually donated or not, that’s why I asked for evidence.  Why should I trust the comments of an (at the time anonymous) tweeter on the internet?  You’d really have to be a fool not to take most comments on there with a large pinch of salt IMO.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 24, 2018, 05:57:04 PM
Just seen an item on Sky News about Venezuelan women who travel to Columbia to work as prostitutes.  Sky were very careful not to reveal their identities by partially hiding their faces.  It's a pity Sky News didn't afford BL the same consideration but then we all know that wouldn't have had the same impact.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2018, 06:07:04 PM
She made the comment as part of a twitter discussion, no doubt to try and give herself the moral high ground. I don’t know if she actually donated or not, that’s why I asked for evidence.  Why should I trust the comments of an (at the time anonymous) tweeter on the internet?  You’d really have to be a fool not to take most comments on there with a large pinch of salt IMO.

Is it important for you to know/ What will you do with information ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 24, 2018, 06:29:55 PM
I always found that an absurd lyric.

But the original book is entertaining as is M*A*S*H Goes to Maine.
The Painless Pole... @)(++(*
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 06:38:50 PM
I'm surprised  no one has mentioned, that if the McCanns had not left three children alone to go out boozing... The Brenda would not have made the tweets and would still be alive.... So we know whose fault it really is
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
I'm surprised  no one has mentioned, that if the McCanns had not left three children alone to go out boozing... The Brenda would not have made the tweets and would still be alive.... So we know whose fault it really is

IMO it wasn’t the leaving of the children that has generated the most opposition, it has been the reputation management.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 07:00:13 PM
IMO it wasn’t the leaving of the children that has generated the most opposition, it has been the reputation management.
So the reputation management is more to be criticised than leaving the children
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 24, 2018, 07:08:32 PM
IMO it wasn’t the leaving of the children that has generated the most opposition, it has been the reputation management.

So if you are accused of serious criminal acts you think it's wrong to counter those allegations
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 24, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
I'm surprised  no one has mentioned, that if the McCanns had not left three children alone to go out boozing... The Brenda would not have made the tweets and would still be alive.... So we know whose fault it really is
It is great to see you do on rare occasions have a sense of humour.  You had me there.  I thought for a moment you've been turned!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 27, 2018, 07:24:20 PM
Did Brenda have the right to accuse the McCanns of being murderers (repeatedly) on social media?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 27, 2018, 07:40:51 PM
Did Brenda have the right to accuse the McCanns of being murderers (repeatedly) on social media?

Cite.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 27, 2018, 07:46:42 PM
Cite.
Here’s one as a taster, let me know how many more you require.
Tue Sep 23 15:52:38 " ooh I say " have you been in any Carry on Films, e.g. " Carry on #mccann s, murder at will
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 27, 2018, 10:34:52 PM
Did Brenda have the right to accuse the McCanns of being murderers (repeatedly) on social media?

She felt she had the right .
Surely no-one has the right to do so.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 27, 2018, 10:35:23 PM
Here’s one as a taster, let me know how many more you require.
Tue Sep 23 15:52:38 " ooh I say " have you been in any Carry on Films, e.g. " Carry on #mccann s, murder at will

 8(8-))
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 27, 2018, 10:59:00 PM
Here’s one as a taster, let me know how many more you require.
Tue Sep 23 15:52:38 " ooh I say " have you been in any Carry on Films, e.g. " Carry on #mccann s, murder at will
Reads more like fiction than fact.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2018, 09:34:41 AM
An interesting question in my opinion is why Sky chose to reveal this story. Was it to pressurise the police into acting against those in the dossier or did they know that the police had decided no crime had been committed?

Whatever the answer, they pursued a woman who hadn't broken the law.

When a man who fundraised for the Fund and who wrote a blog saying some pretty nasty things about others was convicted of viewing child porn Sky took no notice at all.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 28, 2018, 09:43:22 AM
An interesting question in my opinion is why Sky chose to reveal this story. Was it to pressurise the police into acting against those in the dossier or did they know that the police had decided no crime had been committed?

Whatever the answer, they pursued a woman who hadn't broken the law.

When a man who fundraised for the Fund and who wrote a blog saying some pretty nasty things about others was convicted of viewing child porn Sky took no notice at all.


When a sceptic was convicted of the dreadful neglect of her elderly parents Sky took no notice at all.
Possibly there are other sceptics and supporters with convictions which Sky has not publlicized.
Possibly Sky were not aware of these convictions.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2018, 10:16:12 AM
An interesting question in my opinion is why Sky chose to reveal this story. Was it to pressurise the police into acting against those in the dossier or did they know that the police had decided no crime had been committed?

Whatever the answer, they pursued a woman who hadn't broken the law.

When a man who fundraised for the Fund and who wrote a blog saying some pretty nasty things about others was convicted of viewing child porn Sky took no notice at all.

His conviction  had nothing to do with the mccanns
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 28, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
His conviction  had nothing to do with the mccanns

Nor had the woman who was convicted of appalling neglect, her conviction was unrelated to the McCanns But her campaign against the McCanns was reprehensible.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2018, 10:45:47 AM
His conviction  had nothing to do with the mccanns

His online behaviour in support of the McCanns was as reprehensible as the behaviour of those collected in the dossier imo. If their 'trolling' was newsworthy then so was his.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 28, 2018, 10:54:59 AM
Nor had the woman who was convicted of appalling neglect, her conviction was unrelated to the McCanns But her campaign against the McCanns was reprehensible

Very little about her case online at all.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2018, 11:16:08 AM
His online behaviour in support of the McCanns was as reprehensible as the behaviour of those collected in the dossier imo. If their 'trolling' was newsworthy then so was his.

Then if you feel that way you need to compile a dossier and take it to the police
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2018, 11:28:30 AM
Then if you feel that way you need to compile a dossier and take it to the police

As we know, the police don't see bad behaviour online as criminal behaviour. I'm not interested in compiling dossiers on anyone and those who were/are were unable to understand the difference.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2018, 11:38:09 AM
As we know, the police don't see bad behaviour online as criminal behaviour. I'm not interested in compiling dossiers on anyone and those who were/are were unable to understand the difference.

I respect the right of anyone to report a suspected crime... That's the difference  between us
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 28, 2018, 12:39:13 PM
I respect the right of anyone to report a suspected crime... That's the difference  between us

I think nobody would argue with you on the first bit.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2018, 12:41:01 PM
I think nobody would argue with you on the first bit.

And if the police don't take action I respect peoples right to go to the press
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 28, 2018, 12:45:11 PM
I think nobody would argue with you on the first bit.

Though I think most would leave it at that and let the police follow through.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2018, 02:48:11 PM
And if the police don't take action I respect peoples right to go to the press

Successfully too in this case. "This person has committed no crime, but we and others disapprove of them" is what Sky chose to broadcast. It wasn't news, it was opinion broadcast on a news channel.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2018, 02:52:44 PM
Though I think most would leave it at that and let the police follow through.

I wouldnt
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 28, 2018, 02:57:57 PM
Successfully too in this case. "This person has committed no crime, but we and others disapprove of them" is what Sky chose to broadcast. It wasn't news, it was opinion broadcast on a news channel.


Opinions are broadcast each and every day on news channels.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 28, 2018, 03:01:47 PM

Opinions are broadcast each and every day on news channels.

Unlike the majority of 'victims' of the media ... on this occasion the opportunity to have the right of reply aired on the rolling news was offered and was declined.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 28, 2018, 04:07:17 PM
Unlike the majority of 'victims' of the media ... on this occasion the opportunity to have the right of reply aired on the rolling news was offered and was declined.

Brietta would you agree to be interviewed without warning on national news, regardless of the topic?   


He waited for over 3 hours outside her house apparently.   I imagine some of her neighbours would have spotted him then he collars her saying apparently.

No, WE CAUGHT YOU!    Can we talk to you about your Twitter… handle, and your attacks on the McCanns?

IMO the Sky expose of Brenda was tied into the Summers and Swan book launch. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 28, 2018, 04:11:33 PM
Brietta would you agree to be interviewed without warning on national news, regardless of the topic?   


He waited for over 3 hours outside her house apparently.   I imagine some of her neighbours would have spotted him then he collars her saying apparently.

No, WE CAUGHT YOU!    Can we talk to you about your Twitter… handle, and your attacks on the McCanns?

IMO the Sky expose of Brenda was tied into the Summers and Swan book launch. 

That's a very serious accusation !
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 28, 2018, 04:16:23 PM
That's a very serious accusation !

I don't mean that Summers & Swann wanted to ruin anyone's life just that IMO it is one hell of a coincidence that Summers and Swann were interviewed on the same programme by Brunt, that Brenda Leyland was confronted by Brunt in the street where she lived. 

They had copies of the dossier and so did Martin Brunt. Where did they get their copy from then?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 28, 2018, 04:18:32 PM
I don't mean that Summers & Swann wanted to ruin anyone's life just that IMO it is one hell of a coincidence that Summers and Swann were interviewed on the same programme by Brunt, that Brenda Leyland was confronted by Brunt in the street where she lived. 

They had copies of the dossier and so did Martin Brunt. Where did they get their copy from then?

More accusations.
Have you cites for these accusations?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2018, 05:57:29 PM
Though I think most would leave it at that and let the police follow through.
Your faith in the ability of the police to always do the right thing is quite charming.   
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Faithlilly on August 28, 2018, 06:21:24 PM
Your faith in the ability of the police to always do the right thing is quite charming.   

Does that extend to OG ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2018, 06:28:44 PM
An example of when going to the media with a dossier of abuse is the only way to get the police to act:

re: the whistleblower Jayne Senior who exposed the child sex grooming scandal in Rotherham.

“Frustrated by the fact the council rarely took any action, she bravely made contact with a journalist from The Times and handed over 200 confidential documents which contained evidence that Rotherham’s police and social services had been aware of the sexual abuse happening but had done nothing to prevent it.

She was awarded Women of the Year Outstanding Achievement Award in 2015 for her courage in blowing the whistle on the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal and helping the victims get the justice they deserved”.

I suppose she should have just piped down and wait for the police to get theri arses in gear, eh?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 28, 2018, 11:53:02 PM
Does that extend to OG ?
I don’t know, you’ll have to ask her.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 29, 2018, 07:29:36 AM
An example of when going to the media with a dossier of abuse is the only way to get the police to act:

re: the whistleblower Jayne Senior who exposed the child sex grooming scandal in Rotherham.

“Frustrated by the fact the council rarely took any action, she bravely made contact with a journalist from The Times and handed over 200 confidential documents which contained evidence that Rotherham’s police and social services had been aware of the sexual abuse happening but had done nothing to prevent it.

She was awarded Women of the Year Outstanding Achievement Award in 2015 for her courage in blowing the whistle on the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal and helping the victims get the justice they deserved”.

I suppose she should have just piped down and wait for the police to get theri arses in gear, eh?

So you equate someone saying something nasty on the internet to child sex abuse?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 08:16:59 AM
So you equate someone saying something nasty on the internet to child sex abuse?
Is that what I said, or are you putting words into my mouth again? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 08:19:48 AM
So you equate someone saying something nasty on the internet to child sex abuse?

Strawman
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 08:27:30 AM
So you equate someone saying something nasty on the internet to child sex abuse?
The view expressed on this forum by most Brenda supporters is that it is morally reprehensible to compile a dossier of perceived wrong doings and, if the police seem to be dragging their feet or fail to act on something  perceived to be criminal, to then send the dossier to the media.  Is this your view too?  The perceived criminal activity is immaterial, it is the principle I am asking about.  Of course once the dossier is with the media outlet it is then up to them what they do with it and completely out of the dossier compilers’ hands.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 08:33:01 AM
An example of when going to the media with a dossier of abuse is the only way to get the police to act:

re: the whistleblower Jayne Senior who exposed the child sex grooming scandal in Rotherham.

“Frustrated by the fact the council rarely took any action, she bravely made contact with a journalist from The Times and handed over 200 confidential documents which contained evidence that Rotherham’s police and social services had been aware of the sexual abuse happening but had done nothing to prevent it.

She was awarded Women of the Year Outstanding Achievement Award in 2015 for her courage in blowing the whistle on the Rotherham child sex abuse scandal and helping the victims get the justice they deserved”.

I suppose she should have just piped down and wait for the police to get theri arses in gear, eh?

This woman exposed crimes. The dossier compilers and Sky exposed things which were not crimes.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 08:43:50 AM
This woman exposed crimes. The dossier compilers and Sky exposed things which were not crimes.
If the woman (Jayne Senior to give her a name) exposed crimes then why did the police who knew all about them do nothing at all until the Times picked up the story?  In any case you are missing the point completely, but never mind.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 08:45:07 AM
The view expressed on this forum by most Brenda supporters is that it is morally reprehensible to compile a dossier of perceived wrong doings and, if the police seem to be dragging their feet or fail to act on something  perceived to be criminal, to then send the dossier to the media.  Is this your view too?  The perceived criminal activity is immaterial, it is the principle I am asking about.  Of course once the dossier is with the media outlet it is then up to them what they do with it and completely out of the dossier compilers’ hands.

The dossier compilers remind me of Mary Whitehouse.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 08:45:57 AM
The dossier compilers remind me of Mary Whitehouse.
Is that really the best you can do? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 08:57:50 AM
This woman exposed crimes. The dossier compilers and Sky exposed things which were not crimes.

Do you feel there is anything wrong in the hate expressed by some on social media towards Madeleine's family?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 08:59:49 AM
Let's get this clear... Do the, sceptics think that members if the public have no right to go to the press if they feel something needs to be investigated and the police won't help
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 09:15:25 AM
The dossier compilers remind me of Mary Whitehouse.
Mary Whitehouse was a person guided by her strong moral beliefs and religious principles.  Do you believe she was a malign influence on British society?  The dossier compilers seem to be considered malign by some on here, were they in your view?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 09:27:41 AM
Let's get this clear... Do the, sceptics think that members if the public have no right to go to the press if they feel something needs to be investigated and the police won't help
Good question.  To which I would add - did Brenda have the right to publicly accuse the McCanns of being murderers on social media?  Didn’t really get an answer to this question before...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 09:36:02 AM
Do you feel there is anything wrong in the hate expressed by some on social media towards Madeleine's family?

What does 'expressing hate' mean?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 09:37:46 AM
What does 'expressing hate' mean?

Brenda talks about her hatred for the McCann's... That's, expressing hate
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 29, 2018, 09:39:36 AM
Mary Whitehouse was a person guided by her strong moral beliefs and religious principles.  Do you believe she was a malign influence on British society?  The dossier compilers seem to be considered malign by some on here, were they in your view?

I think many treated her as an anachronistic joke.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 10:00:17 AM
I think many treated her as an anachronistic joke.
You don’t say!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 10:02:39 AM
Mary Whitehouse was a person guided by her strong moral beliefs and religious principles.  Do you believe she was a malign influence on British society?  The dossier compilers seem to be considered malign by some on here, were they in your view?

Mary Whitehouse and the dossier compiler's both disapproved of certain things. Not only did they disapprove they wanted everyone else to comply with their opinions. They had every right to have opinions, but no right to insist that there opinions should dominate.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 10:06:17 AM
Mary Whitehouse and the dossier compiler's both disapproved of certain things. Not only did they disapprove they wanted everyone else to comply with their opinions. They had every right to have opinions, but no right to insist that there opinions should dominate.
Can you provideva link to the dossier compilers insistence that their opinions should dominate?  Was Whitehouse wrong to insist that “kiddie porn” was wrong?  Was Jayne Senior wrong to go to the Times when she thought it wrong that Asian gangs were grooming underage girls and the police turned a blind eye? Rhetorical, my questions are far too difficult  to give an honest answer to, I know.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 10:11:12 AM
I think many treated her as an anachronistic joke.

She certainly didn't share the mood of the 1960's.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 10:12:48 AM
She certainly didn't share the mood of the 1960's.
Was she a bad person?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 10:35:21 AM
Can you provideva link to the dossier compilers insistence that their opinions should dominate?  Was Whitehouse wrong to insist that “kiddie porn” was wrong?  Was Jayne Senior wrong to go to the Times when she thought it wrong that Asian gangs were grooming underage girls and the police turned a blind eye? Rhetorical, my questions are far too difficult  to give an honest answer to, I know.

Jayne Senior isn't the same because she exposed actual crimes.
Mary Whitehouse wanted censorship of the media and the BBC.
The dossier compilers wanted people to be prosecuted for what they thought were crimes;

Brunt said those who compiled the dossier have reacted with "absolute dismay" at the decision not to prosecute.

"They say it is tantamount to giving the trolls, as they call them, carte blanche to carry on abusing the McCanns," he said.
https://news.sky.com/story/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action-10361261



Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 29, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
Was she a bad person?

 Merely a subjective decision based on an individual's  outlook.

I would consider her misguided rather than bad.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 10:48:13 AM
Merely a subjective decision based on an individual's  outlook.

I would consider her misguided rather than bad.

I'm finding this deflection from  pertinent questions asked to a Mary Whitehouse discussion, very cleverly done.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 10:56:06 AM
I'm finding this deflection from  pertinent questions asked to a Mary Whitehouse discussion, very cleverly done.

Maybe such a high profile case will bring about a clarification  of the law... Brenda felt what she, was doing was perfectly acceptable.   It is if you accept victims of online abuse committing suicide... It isn't if you dont
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 10:56:40 AM
Was she a bad person?

What on earth has that got to do with it? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I will always oppose anyone who seeks to stop others saying, reading or watching something just because they disapprove of it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 10:58:44 AM
Jayne Senior isn't the same because she exposed actual crimes.
Mary Whitehouse wanted censorship of the media and the BBC.
The dossier compilers wanted people to be prosecuted for what they thought were crimes;

Brunt said those who compiled the dossier have reacted with "absolute dismay" at the decision not to prosecute.

"They say it is tantamount to giving the trolls, as they call them, carte blanche to carry on abusing the McCanns," he said.
https://news.sky.com/story/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action-10361261
Jayne Senior IS IMO the same because until she went to the Times, the police were not interested in investigating these crimes.  In other words, they weren't crimes as far as the police were concerned UNTIL the media shone a light on their complacency about child sex grooming.  As far as she or the Times knew at the time of blowing the whistle, the police could still have come back with a decision not to prosecute.  The only difference is that in the case of the malign tweets being made about the McCanns and accusing them, of among other things, being murderers, the police decided not to go ahead with any prosecutions.   The dossier compilers have every right to be dismayed at what they perceived to be police complacency, that doesn't mean they insisted on anything. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 10:59:36 AM
What on earth has that got to do with it? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I will always oppose anyone who seeks to stop others saying, reading or watching something just because they disapprove of it.
Does that include looking at child pornography, which thanks in large part to Mary Whitehouse is now an illegal activity?  Did Mary Whitehouse pave the road to hell in your view?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 11:00:20 AM
What on earth has that got to do with it? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I will always oppose anyone who seeks to stop others saying, reading or watching something just because they disapprove of it.
The law does exactly that... But sets limits. So you oppose the law
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 11:03:06 AM
What on earth has that got to do with it? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I will always oppose anyone who seeks to stop others saying, reading or watching something just because they disapprove of it.

And I will always, support an individuals right to appeal to the press to expose something they see, as, an injustice
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:05:27 AM
And I will always, support an individuals right to appeal to the press to expose something they see, as, an injustice
#metoo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 29, 2018, 11:05:43 AM
I'm finding this deflection from  pertinent questions asked to a Mary Whitehouse discussion, very cleverly done.

I'm only replying to VS's  question about her - I didn't bring her up  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 11:25:28 AM
Maybe such a high profile case will bring about a clarification  of the law... Brenda felt what she, was doing was perfectly acceptable.   It is if you accept victims of online abuse committing suicide... It isn't if you dont

Perhaps it will, and I have no objection to people lobbying for such changes. Naming, shaming and door-stepping people who have committed no offence I do object to because two wrongs don't make a right.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 11:35:18 AM
Perhaps it will, and I have no objection to people lobbying for such changes. Naming, shaming and door-stepping people who have committed no offence I do object to because two wrongs don't make a right.

Then complain to sky... The dossier compliers didn't publicly identify brenda... Sky did
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 11:46:01 AM
Perhaps it will, and I have no objection to people lobbying for such changes. Naming, shaming and door-stepping people who have committed no offence I do object to because two wrongs don't make a right.

Bullying on social media is in the news, today Re young girls, self harming... Bullying is wrong...the on-line bullies need to be stopped
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:46:52 AM
Perhaps it will, and I have no objection to people lobbying for such changes. Naming, shaming and door-stepping people who have committed no offence I do object to because two wrongs don't make a right.
This is in direct contradiction to your earlier statement that
Mary Whitehouse and the dossier compiler's both disapproved of certain things. Not only did they disapprove they wanted everyone else to comply with their opinions. They had every right to have opinions, but no right to insist that there opinions should dominate.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2018, 11:56:55 AM
Perhaps it will, and I have no objection to people lobbying for such changes. Naming, shaming and door-stepping people who have committed no offence I do object to because two wrongs don't make a right.

I think you are missing the point just a little here.

Brenda Leyland was one of a number of individuals who had taken it upon themselves to troll and mount a hate campaign directed towards the family of a missing child.

If you think such people don't deserve to have their activities properly investigated when reported to the police that is a matter entirely for you.

But just as the dossier compilers had the right to do that ... everyone mentioned in that document had the right to await the outcome of the police investigation and the right to due process should that have been necessary.

Brenda Leyland had the right to due process, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous, she also had the opportunity of right to reply ... not on the doorstep (the confrontation was not broadcast live) but once she had time to gather her thoughts together ... she could also have sued Sky news much as Sir Cliff did with the BBC.

She chose another route of suicide.
One wonders if any of the targets of those named in the dossier had taken that route ... and I include their vulnerable adolescents without apology in that ... if it would have roused the same passion on this thread that we see about one of the contributors to their abuse?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 12:02:27 PM
Bullying on social media is in the news, today Re young girls, self harming... Bullying is wrong...the on-line bullies need to be stopped
She also mercilessly bullied a young woman she thought was Amy Tierney.  There’s no question about it, Brenda WAS an online bully, though some people refuse to accept it.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 12:07:59 PM
From what you are, saying you don't object to any sort of bullying or harassment... Wait till it's, directed towards you or your family you will soon change your mind
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 12:16:37 PM
Bullying on social media is in the news, today Re young girls, self harming... Bullying is wrong...the on-line bullies need to be stopped

Bullying is in the news for sure. A 9 year old boy in Colorado committed suicide after school mates bullied him in person after he came out as gay. Bullying happens all over the place; at school, at work, in the home, and online. It hurts if you let it. The hardest job I had as a parent was helping my children to learn how to deal with this nasty and cowardly behaviour. Whether it can be stopped in all it's forms I don't know; it's been around for a very long time.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 12:23:19 PM
Bullying is in the news for sure. A 9 year old boy in Colorado committed suicide after school mates bullied him in person after he came out as gay. Bullying happens all over the place; at school, at work, in the home, and online. It hurts if you let it. The hardest job I had as a parent was helping my children to learn how to deal with this nasty and cowardly behaviour. Whether it can be stopped in all it's forms I don't know; it's been around for a very long time.

It has but social media hasn't.... Social media, gives the bullies a platform to bully 24 hrs, a day.... Brenda could say what she wanted to her friends... But when you publish hatred nationaly there is a difference
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 29, 2018, 12:24:54 PM
Bullying is in the news for sure. A 9 year old boy in Colorado committed suicide after school mates bullied him in person after he came out as gay. Bullying happens all over the place; at school, at work, in the home, and online. It hurts if you let it. The hardest job I had as a parent was helping my children to learn how to deal with this nasty and cowardly behaviour. Whether it can be stopped in all it's forms I don't know; it's been around for a very long time.


Jeez, what sort of  a world to live in.  Aged 9 I didn't even know what homosexuality was.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 12:27:29 PM
Bullying is in the news for sure. A 9 year old boy in Colorado committed suicide after school mates bullied him in person after he came out as gay. Bullying happens all over the place; at school, at work, in the home, and online. It hurts if you let it. The hardest job I had as a parent was helping my children to learn how to deal with this nasty and cowardly behaviour. Whether it can be stopped in all it's forms I don't know; it's been around for a very long time.

But bullying shouldn't happen .
Just because it has gone on in the past is no excuse for not trying to stop it nowadays.
Schools have a duty of care to prevent bullying and hopefully workplaces should have the same concern.
Fortunately your children had a concerned parent to help them deal with the bullying.
Not all children are so fortunate.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 12:31:02 PM
It has but social media hasn't.... Social media, gives the bullies a platform to bully 24 hrs, a day.... Brenda could say what she wanted to her friends... But when you publish hatred nationaly there is a difference

Social media is now the home for bullies.
A headteacher I know has to deal with the carry over to school on a Monday from all the social media nastiness of the weekend.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 01:09:31 PM
Bullying's a matter of opinion, not fact. I believe in free speech some of which may be seen as bullying by some but not by others.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
Bullying on social media is in the news, today Re young girls, self harming... Bullying is wrong... Brenda tried to bully the McCann's....the on-line bullies need to be stopped

If they are breaking the law report them to the appropriate authorities if there is sufficient evidence.
If they are not and there isn't there is always the "off" button.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 01:24:25 PM

Bullying's a matter of opinion, not fact. I believe in free speech some of which may be seen as bullying by some but not by others.

No doubt the bullies see it as their right of free speech.The others who see it as bullying are no doubt their victims.

In school bullies usually worked as part of a group, usually targeted one or two individuals by insulting, accusing and threatening.
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 01:25:19 PM
If they are breaking the law report them to the appropriate authorities if there is sufficient evidence.
If they are not and there isn't there is always the "off" button.

And there is, always going to the papers to highlight  the situation and get the law, changed
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 01:27:04 PM

Bullying's a matter of opinion, not fact. I believe in free speech some of which may be seen as bullying by some but not by others.

So when it's, against  your children it's bullying... Against others, it's free-speech.... I think we expected that... Earlier you described jt as nasty cowardly  behaviour.... Now it's free speech
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 01:29:38 PM
If they are breaking the law report them to the appropriate authorities if there is sufficient evidence.
If they are not and there isn't there is always the "off" button.

Same goes for brenda and her supporters here... If what sky or the compliers, did is illegal report them...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 03:07:06 PM
There would be no Madeleine forums if a significant proportion of people hadn’t decided to be outraged about the McCanns and the decisions they made in the first place. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 29, 2018, 04:19:48 PM
There would be no Madeleine forums if a significant proportion of people hadn’t decided to be outraged about the McCanns and the decisions they made in the first place. 

And equally there wouldn't be if a handful of self appointed defenders hadn't emerged.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 04:29:46 PM
And equally there wouldn't be if a handful of self appointed defenders hadn't emerged.


Which came first?
The attack or the defence?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 04:40:35 PM
And equally there wouldn't be if a handful of self appointed defenders hadn't emerged.
Oh I think there would...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 04:51:35 PM

Bullying's a matter of opinion, not fact. I believe in free speech some of which may be seen as bullying by some but not by others.
"I find it reprehensible for anyone to be abusive online. It ranges from calling others stupid to really bad abuse" - G-Unit.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6268.msg236214#msg236214
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 04:57:48 PM
"I find it reprehensible for anyone to be abusive online. It ranges from calling others stupid to really bad abuse" - G-Unit.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6268.msg236214#msg236214

I think It's one thing calling an anonymous blogger stupid but that isn't the same as directing abuse at a real person... Martin Brunt can doorstep me any day... I stand by everthing I have said... That doesn't seem to be the same for the sceptics.... I think brenda deserved to be named and shamed and I'd like more, anonymous bloggers, getting the same treatment...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 05:04:56 PM
By G-Unit's own definition Brenda behaved in a reprehensible fashion, though she would never come straight out and say so.  Brenda went beyond calling someone stupid.  She repeatedly accused the McCanns of being murderers, and bullied a young woman quite mercilessly (the fact that she was mistaken in her target is neither here nor there, the intent to hurt and bully is the issue here).  In fact I haven't heard a single sceptic describe Brenda's actions as in any way reprehensible, all we ever here is what a lovely lady she was.  Well I'm sorry but I don't find her actions particularly lovely.   I'm sure she was a delight in real life, but why did she have to be so vile online?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2018, 05:21:51 PM
And there is, always going to the papers to highlight  the situation and get the law, changed

Laws are changed by parliament.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2018, 05:26:35 PM
There would be no Madeleine forums if a significant proportion of people hadn’t decided to be outraged about the McCanns and the decisions they made in the first place.  You are a part of that, so please don’t pretend you ocupy any sort of higher ground.

Would you care to put a number against that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 05:42:48 PM
Would you care to put a number against that?
No.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 06:08:10 PM
Laws are changed by parliament.
Ultimately, yes, but some laws come about owing initially to the activism of members of the public. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
There would be no Madeleine forums if a significant proportion of people hadn’t decided to be outraged about the McCanns and the decisions they made in the first place.  You are a part of that, so please don’t pretend you ocupy any sort of higher ground.

Is that the reason people founded and joined forums? Outrage? News to me. I think that's just your opinion.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Eleanor on August 29, 2018, 06:19:29 PM

Tis time someone changed The Law on On Line Bullying.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 06:22:08 PM
Is that the reason people founded and joined forums? Outrage? News to me. I think that's just your opinion.
Think what you like.  I first joined a forum about the case because I was gobsmacked by the callous hatred being spewed towards the family of a missing child, long before they were considered suspects by most of these people spewing their bile.  They were on the whole full of righteous fury about the McCanns' child "neglect".  I thought their vile comments were OTT, and there was hardly anyone else voicing an alternative opinion.  Yes, I was outraged by their outrage, but theirs was first, believe me!  I never would have got involved in Madeleine forums in the first place if I hadn't been so shocked by the vitriol and lack of IMO common decency and restraint on display. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 06:50:43 PM
Think what you like.  I first joined a forum about the case because I was gobsmacked by the callous hatred being spewed towards the family of a missing child, long before they were considered suspects by most of these people spewing their bile.  They were on the whole full of righteous fury about the McCanns' child "neglect".  I thought their vile comments were OTT, and there was hardly anyone else voicing an alternative opinion.  Yes, I was outraged by their outrage, but theirs was first, believe me!  I never would have got involved in Madeleine forums in the first place if I hadn't been so shocked by the vitriol and lack of IMO common decency and restraint on display.


Much the same as myself.
I was reading Sky news and there was another headline story about Madeleine's disappearance.
I noticed the comments section and began to read.
The comments were appalling.
The ones about Gerry's brother and sister especially so.
I made a post commenting about the vitriol.
Again the attack and abuse came first.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2018, 07:44:49 PM
By G-Unit's own definition Brenda behaved in a reprehensible fashion, though she would never come straight out and say so.  Brenda went beyond calling someone stupid.  She repeatedly accused the McCanns of being murderers, and bullied a young woman quite mercilessly (the fact that she was mistaken in her target is neither here nor there, the intent to hurt and bully is the issue here).  In fact I haven't heard a single sceptic describe Brenda's actions as in any way reprehensible, all we ever here is what a lovely lady she was.  Well I'm sorry but I don't find her actions particularly lovely.   I'm sure she was a delight in real life, but why did she have to be so vile online?

I think you have missed a few times I have posted about Brenda. I have never condoned what she tweeted, or agreed with what she said. It does you no favours to class all skeptics as having one voice. we don't. You insist in trying to make sceptic members of this forum as bad people,nasty trolls etc. but this has yet to be evidenced.

The fact I do not agree with Brenda Layland's tweets does not give me the right to silence her. Brenda committed no crime in the eyes of the law. The dossier complilers achieved NOTHING...SKY achieved nothing... Brenda Died and MBM is missing (perhaps dead). All thanks to the behaviour of others...says a lot to me.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 07:58:43 PM
I think you have missed a few times I have posted about Brenda. I have never condoned what she tweeted, or agreed with what she said. It does you no favours to class all skeptics as having one voice. we don't. You insist in trying to make sceptic members of this forum as bad people,nasty trolls etc. but this has yet to be evidenced.

The fact I do not agree with Brenda Layland's tweets does not give me the right to silence her. Brenda committed no crime in the eyes of the law. The dossier complilers achieved NOTHING...SKY achieved nothing... Brenda Died and MBM is missing (perhaps dead). All thanks to the behaviour of others...says a lot to me.

I am certainly not suggesting that any sceptic here has ever posted the vitriol which was the cause of my and VS involvement in Madeleine discussions but rather we were explaining which came first.
The attacks on the McCann family or those who who sought to counteract those attacks.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 08:01:40 PM
It is wrong to blame others.
The families of suicide victims have so much guilt blaming themselves.
Ultimately someone decides to take their own life and they and they alone make that choice.
The family are the victims.
They are the ones left behind to carry that pain forever.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 08:12:52 PM
Ultimately, yes, but some laws come about owing initially to the activism of members of the public.

The poll tax riots being a case in point. Laws get made or changed when there's sufficient interest by the general population. I don't see a grass roots interest in protecting the McCanns from online questions and criticisms. 




Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 08:19:44 PM
The poll tax riots being a case in point. Laws get made or changed when there's sufficient interest by the general population. I don't see a grass roots interest in protecting the McCanns from online questions and criticisms.

On-line questioning and criticism is quite different from online abuse and threats..
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 29, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
The poll tax riots being a case in point. Laws get made or changed when there's sufficient interest by the general population. I don't see a grass roots interest in protecting the McCanns from online questions and criticisms.
Online questions and criticism is fine...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2018, 08:29:22 PM
It is wrong to blame others.
The families of suicide victims have so much guilt blaming themselves.
Ultimately someone decides to take their own life and they and they alone make that choice.
The family are the victims.
They are the ones left behind to carry that pain forever.

Is this your opinion as a qualified  clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist or a retired school teacher?


In bold is evidence you know  nothing about Mental Health issues, just guessing is fun though.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 08:30:17 PM
Think what you like.  I first joined a forum about the case because I was gobsmacked by the callous hatred being spewed towards the family of a missing child, long before they were considered suspects by most of these people spewing their bile.  They were on the whole full of righteous fury about the McCanns' child "neglect".  I thought their vile comments were OTT, and there was hardly anyone else voicing an alternative opinion.  Yes, I was outraged by their outrage, but theirs was first, believe me!  I never would have got involved in Madeleine forums in the first place if I hadn't been so shocked by the vitriol and lack of IMO common decency and restraint on display.

Have you seen posts about the case which dispassionately examine and discuss the evidence? No 'callous hatred' being 'spewed', no 'bile', no 'righteous fury', no 'vile comments', no 'vitriol'? I have. Perhaps you were reading the wrong sites?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2018, 08:40:26 PM
I am certainly not suggesting that any sceptic here has ever posted the vitriol which was the cause of my and VS involvement in Madeleine discussions but rather we were explaining which came first.
The attacks on the McCann family or those who who sought to counteract those attacks.

I have read the posts.  I understand what the message is. The outrage you both feel about 'McCann bashers, H*ters, evil trolls, etc posting bile. what that has to do with this forum I have absolutely no idea.

I have never been to a McCann forum. I have no reason to frequent such a described 'toxic enviroment'. If it is so bad I would wonder why go there then come here to bemoan about 'skeptics' if not to try and lump us all as one massive gang of bullies.

This forum is about finding out what happened to MBM by discussion. Not the same as trying to 'solve the case'  Any talk about the situation leading up to and the aftermath of MBM's claimed disappearance by her parents, is seen by you and others as mccann bashing etc.   This is the case as you always attack the poster
(many of me ) and not the post.

I take confort from that as it proves that the supporters have no real arguement to offer, just to be 'offended' on behalf of people they don't even know.


So what came first?

My opinion : On a yahoo chatsite, with many threads on different subjects, some  posters were questioning the behaviour of the McCanns on the week MBM disappeared. there were no accusations or nastyness, however, after a while the chat turned bad by 'new people' coming in hard selling the 'abduction' and began to name call anyone who challenged the theory... I left long before the Amaral hatred came about.

The McCanns created their own monster.

Forum parents discussed  nightmares for many children who thought they would be abducted from their bed via a window as was 'that little girl'.
.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
Is this your opinion as a qualified  clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist or a retired school teacher?


In bold is evidence you know  nothing about Mental Health issues, just guessing is fun though.


You always take such an exaggerated and quite personal and rather a deprecating tone to any of my posts.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
I have read the posts.  I understand what the message is. The outrage you both feel about 'McCann bashers, H*ters, evil trolls, etc posting bile. what that has to do with this forum I have absolutely no idea.

I have never been to a McCann forum. I have no reason to frequent such a described 'toxic enviroment'. If it is so bad I would wonder why go there then come here to bemoan about 'skeptics' if not to try and lump us all as one massive gang of bullies.

This forum is about finding out what happened to MBM by discussion. Not the same as trying to 'solve the case'  Any talk about the situation leading up to and the aftermath of MBM's claimed disappearance by her parents, is seen by you and others as mccann bashing etc.   This is the case as you always attack the poster
(many of me ) and not the post.

I take confort from that as it proves that the supporters have no real arguement to offer, just to be 'offended' on behalf of people they don't even know.


So what came first?

My opinion : On a yahoo chatsite, with many threads on different subjects, some  posters were questioning the behaviour of the McCanns on the week MBM disappeared. there were no accusations or nastyness, however, after a while the chat turned bad by 'new people' coming in hard selling the 'abduction' and began to name call anyone who challenged the theory... I left long before the Amaral hatred came about.

The McCanns created their own monster.

Forum parents discussed  nightmares for many children who thought they would be abducted from their bed via a window as was 'that little girl'.
.


This thread is about Brenda who among many another did post threats and hatred against Madeleine's parents.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 09:44:34 PM
Anything that some people don't approve of SHOULD BE STOPPED! Any means are acceptable so long as the end is achieved.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 09:54:11 PM
Anything that some people don't approve of SHOULD BE STOPPED! Any means are acceptable so long as the end is achieved.

Rather an exaggerated statement in my opinion.
Just hate and bullying on the internet should be stopped.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 10:06:15 PM
Rather an exaggerated statement in my opinion.
Just hate and bullying on the internet should be stopped.


It sounds simple, but it isn't. The first step is to agree on a definition of 'hate' and 'bullying'.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 10:16:45 PM

It sounds simple, but it isn't. The first step is to agree on a definition of 'hate' and 'bullying'.

What constitutes hate speech and bullying seems to have been accepted in school, workplaces and in the publc arena.
Shouldn't be too difficult to carry this over into the internet.

Do you consider any of the internet speculation about the McCann family to be  outwith the bounds of decency?
How far is free speech allowed?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2018, 10:17:33 PM
Anything that some people don't approve of SHOULD BE STOPPED! Any means are acceptable so long as the end is achieved.

Kris Kristofferson:
'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
Who they can feel better than at any time they please
Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on


I believe Terry Pratchett had something with this:
"It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing it".
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: John on August 29, 2018, 10:18:36 PM
A reminder to keep posts amiable and constructive please guys. TY
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2018, 10:21:05 PM
What constitutes hate speech and bullying seems to have been accepted in school, workplaces and in the publc arena.
Shouldn't be too difficult to carry this over into the internet.

Do you consider any of the internet speculation about the McCann family to be  outwith the bounds of decency?
How far is free speech allowed?

That would depend alot on where one lived.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 10:26:15 PM
That would depend alot on where one lived.

I wasn't thinking of North Korea.
Obviously the discussion is related to what happens in this country.
I thought that was understood.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 29, 2018, 10:28:04 PM

It sounds simple, but it isn't. The first step is to agree on a definition of 'hate' and 'bullying'.

Well in some quarters if someone  is offended by what you say or do it is deemed as bullying.The offence may be real or not it is how they 'feel'.  Now as we undestand it - if we believe the McCanns, they do not 'do' social media. therefor can't possibly be offended. So no harm done.

  'Curtain tweekers' were disliked in post WW2  Russia and Germany. AND now we know why!



love this:Amaral,and the McCanns and Rupert Murdoch ,sky news bbc  all media ... making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 29, 2018, 10:33:46 PM
1) I wasn't thinking of North Korea.
Obviously the discussion is related to what happens in this country.
2)I thought that was understood.

1) Neither was I.
2) It was/is.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 10:37:24 PM
Well in some quarters if someone  is offended by what you say or do it is deemed as bullying.The offence may be real or not it is how they 'feel'.  Now as we undestand it - if we believe the McCanns, they do not 'do' social media. therefor can't possibly be offended. So no harm done.

  'Curtain tweekers' were disliked in post WW2  Russia and Germany. AND now we know why!



love this:Amaral,and the McCanns and Rupert Murdoch ,sky news bbc  all media ... making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.



I'm glad you liked it
It's so true.
I copied it from Stephen who had it at the end of all his posts.
Obviously not exactly the same but my little twist of his quote.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 10:38:00 PM
1) Neither was I.
2) It was/is.

Good.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:02:26 PM
The poll tax riots being a case in point. Laws get made or changed when there's sufficient interest by the general population. I don't see a grass roots interest in protecting the McCanns from online questions and criticisms.
There is a grass roots interest in doing more to prevent internet bullying and abuse though and hold social media platforms to account, don’t you think? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:03:31 PM
Have you seen posts about the case which dispassionately examine and discuss the evidence? No 'callous hatred' being 'spewed', no 'bile', no 'righteous fury', no 'vile comments', no 'vitriol'? I have. Perhaps you were reading the wrong sites?
Yes I have seen posts like that.  What is your point?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:06:40 PM

It sounds simple, but it isn't. The first step is to agree on a definition of 'hate' and 'bullying'.
OK, is it bullying to call someone fat and ugly, and to out them on social media?  Is it acceptable to imply publicly that someone is guilty of murder?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
I have read the posts.  I understand what the message is. The outrage you both feel about 'McCann bashers, H*ters, evil trolls, etc posting bile. what that has to do with this forum I have absolutely no idea.

I have never been to a McCann forum. I have no reason to frequent such a described 'toxic enviroment'. If it is so bad I would wonder why go there then come here to bemoan about 'skeptics' if not to try and lump us all as one massive gang of bullies.

This forum is about finding out what happened to MBM by discussion. Not the same as trying to 'solve the case'  Any talk about the situation leading up to and the aftermath of MBM's claimed disappearance by her parents, is seen by you and others as mccann bashing etc.   This is the case as you always attack the poster
(many of me ) and not the post.

I take confort from that as it proves that the supporters have no real arguement to offer, just to be 'offended' on behalf of people they don't even know.


So what came first?

My opinion : On a yahoo chatsite, with many threads on different subjects, some  posters were questioning the behaviour of the McCanns on the week MBM disappeared. there were no accusations or nastyness, however, after a while the chat turned bad by 'new people' coming in hard selling the 'abduction' and began to name call anyone who challenged the theory... I left long before the Amaral hatred came about.

The McCanns created their own monster.

Forum parents discussed  nightmares for many children who thought they would be abducted from their bed via a window as was 'that little girl'.
.
If this forum is about finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann they why have we spent 57 pages discussing the reprehensible activities of an OAP in Leicestershire?

As for the rest of your post, without evidence of this lovely little friendly chatroom that turned nasty when the bad ol’ supporters turned up I’m afraid I’m going to have to trat that with a large spoonful of salt, having witnessed a very similar high profile forum and the comments there shortly after Madeleine’s disappearance.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2018, 11:19:50 PM
What constitutes hate speech and bullying seems to have been accepted in school, workplaces and in the publc arena.
Shouldn't be too difficult to carry this over into the internet.

Do you consider any of the internet speculation about the McCann family to be  outwith the bounds of decency?
How far is free speech allowed?

Hate speech (as opposed to just 'hate') does have a legal definition and those practicing it can be prosecuted. No-one has been prosecuted for directing such speech at the McCanns.

There is no legal definition of bullying, it isn't a criminal offense.

'The bounds of decency' means nothing to me because I don''t know what you mean by it. We may disagree as to what is or isn't 'decent'.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:34:01 PM
Hate speech (as opposed to just 'hate') does have a legal definition and those practicing it can be prosecuted. No-one has been prosecuted for directing such speech at the McCanns.

There is no legal definition of bullying, it isn't a criminal offense.

'The bounds of decency' means nothing to me because I don''t know what you mean by it. We may disagree as to what is or isn't 'decent'.
The law

Some forms of bullying are illegal and should be reported to the police. These include:

violence or assault
theft
repeated harassment or intimidation, for example name calling, threats and abusive phone calls, emails or text messages
hate crimes

https://www.gov.uk/bullying-at-school
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2018, 11:34:17 PM
Hate speech (as opposed to just 'hate') does have a legal definition and those practicing it can be prosecuted. No-one has been prosecuted for directing such speech at the McCanns.

There is no legal definition of bullying, it isn't a criminal offense.

'The bounds of decency' means nothing to me because I don''t know what you mean by it. We may disagree as to what is or isn't 'decent'.


When you said your child was bullied I assume name calling was involved.
Perhaps the bully felt that whatever he/she said was within the bounds of decency.
It cannot be left for individuals to decide what is or is not decent if that decision impacts on another person.
There may be no legal definition of bullying but in schools, workplaces etc bullying has to be defined and dealt with.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 29, 2018, 11:35:08 PM
Bullying - a definition

There is no legal definition of bullying.

However, it’s usually defined as behaviour that is:

repeated
intended to hurt someone either physically or emotionally
often aimed at certain groups, for example because of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation
It takes many forms and can include:

physical assault
teasing
making threats
name calling
cyberbullying - bullying via mobile phone or online (for example email, social networks and instant messenger)
https://www.gov.uk/bullying-at-school/bullying-a-definition
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 06:41:56 AM
Online questions and criticism is fine...

I have read the last few pages and seen very little in the way of sympathy (this does not mean none) for Brenda. Yes she made some horrible posts about the McCanns but most of them were not, they were simply questioning what the couple did and from what I can see she responded to goading by supporters and gave back what they gave her.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 07:27:15 AM
I have read the last few pages and seen very little in the way of sympathy (this does not mean none) for Brenda. Yes she made some horrible posts about the McCanns but most of them were not, they were simply questioning what the couple did and from what I can see she responded to goading by supporters and gave back what they gave her.

Do you not find her bullying behaviour of a young woman reprehensible?  Did she have the right to repeatedly accuse the McCanns in your view? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 07:30:57 AM
Do you not find her bullying behaviour of a young woman reprehensible?  Did she have the right to repeatedly accuse the McCanns in your view?

No and no but did she deserve what happened to her thanks to the dossier compilers and the media. I don't believe she deserved any of it. Perhaps a knock  on the door by the police if she had broken the law (which she hadn't I believe) but not the media onslaught she got.

Can any decent person justify that?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 08:23:53 AM
No and no but did she deserve what happened to her thanks to the dossier compilers and the media. I don't believe she deserved any of it. Perhaps a knock  on the door by the police if she had broken the law (which she hadn't I believe) but not the media onslaught she got.

Can any decent person justify that?
So if you saw someone behaving repeatedly reprehensibly, bullying  and accusing others repeatedly of being murderers you would do nothing?  Just let them get on with it?  Can any decent person justify that?

Listening to R4 about the twitter abuse of Sandy Hook parents right now, very interesting...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 09:02:57 AM
Either the dossier compilers were doing a good thing, as claimed, in which case it shouldn’t be an issue to be associated with it, or they were doing a bad thing.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 09:12:42 AM
Either the dossier compilers were doing a good thing, as claimed, in which case it shouldn’t be an issue to be associated with it, or they were doing a bad thing.


I totally support them and would like to see more posters of offensive posts outed.
The risk of suicide relates to the victims of online bullying and abuse... Not the perpetrators
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 09:18:54 AM
I would love to see a definition of a 'decent' person. I see it as related to 'respectable'. In my opinion many people have been seen as decent and respectable..............until they were found out.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 09:19:46 AM
What does it matter if an anonymous person on an Internet forum was part of an anonymous group producing an dossier that the anonymous person supported?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 30, 2018, 09:25:16 AM
I totally support them and would like to see more posters of offensive posts outed.
The risk of suicide relates to the victims of online bullying and abuse... Not the perpetrators


I don't believe the dossier compilers were wrong either.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 09:27:21 AM
I don't believe the dossier compilers were wrong either.

Feel free, we are all anonymous on here. Interesting that someone supporting a group outing people complains about being outed.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 30, 2018, 09:28:30 AM
I would love to see a definition of a 'decent' person. I see it as related to 'respectable'. In my opinion many people have been seen as decent and respectable..............until they were found out.

Well they obviously were not decent and respectable.
Just hypocrites.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 09:41:45 AM
Well they obviously were not decent and respectable.
Just hypocrites.

Quite. So how do we decide who's decent and respectable before they're found out?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 30, 2018, 09:47:17 AM
NB ... ALL future Off Topic posts will be deleted ... Topic "Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?"
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 09:57:13 AM
So you feel that the dossier compilers would be in danger if their identities were revealed?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 09:57:53 AM
So you feel that the dossier compilers would be in danger if their identities were revealed?

Quite possibly
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 30, 2018, 10:34:01 AM
All posts containing personal comments and/or goading will be removed as per previous edicts.

The dossier compilers were nothing more than a bunch of busybodies imo who got burned by their stupid actions.  The correct port of call for any online abuse is the social media platform involved and then the police. The press and media have no right to get involved where the police deem abuse to not be criminal. If the laws are too loose as someone already suggested then petition the government to tighten them up.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:51:05 AM
All posts containing personal comments and/or goading will be removed as per previous edicts.

The dossier compilers were nothing more than a bunch of busybodies imo who got burned by their stupid actions.  The correct port of call for any online abuse is the social media platform involved and then the police. The press and media have no right to get involved where the police deem abuse to not be criminal. If the laws are too loose as someone already suggested then petition the government to tighten them up.

the dossier compliers didn't get burned...no one knows who they are...they had every right to go to the press...that is not opinion..its fact
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 11:07:27 AM
All posts containing personal comments and/or goading will be removed as per previous edicts.

The dossier compilers were nothing more than a bunch of busybodies imo who got burned by their stupid actions.  The correct port of call for any online abuse is the social media platform involved and then the police. The press and media have no right to get involved where the police deem abuse to not be criminal. If the laws are too loose as someone already suggested then petition the government to tighten them up.

I agree. The internet has given everyone the opportunity to express their opinions. We all read opinions we disagree with or which we find offensive. That doesn't give us the right to take action against those who have offended us. Posting anonymously and offending others isn't illegal.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 11:11:06 AM
I agree. The internet has given everyone the opportunity to express their opinions. We all read opinions we disagree with or which we find offensive. That doesn't give us the right to take action against those who have offended us. Posting anonymously and offending others isn't illegal.

It does give us the right to take action against poeple who have offended us.......totally....as long as we act within the law
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 30, 2018, 11:32:30 AM
the dossier compilers didn't get burned...no one knows who they are...they had every right to go to the press...that is not opinion..its fact

There is quite a bit of concern being shown in academic circles about misuse of the internet, if the number of studies being carried out is anything to go by.

With some of the offending organised groups taking pains to object specifically to at least one study featuring the abuse suffered by the McCann family.

If I am not mistaken ... haven't we seen that attitude of denial posted on this thread?   along the lines of ~ If we say it ain't so then it ain't!

As far as I am concerned ... that is an acknowledgement that cyberbullying ... in this instance of Madeleine's family is inherently wrong and using a woman suffering with her own demons as an icon to justify it is inherently wrong.

Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
It does give us the right to take action against poeple who have offended us.......totally....as long as we act within the law

In the end it comes down to different opinions, doesn't it? Some of us think the dossier compilers were a 'bunch of busybodies' and others think they were justifiably concerned citizens doing all they could to clean up the internet Personally I admire those who have the courage to identify themselves and defend their opinions publicly. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
In the end it comes down to different opinions, doesn't it? Some of us think the dossier compilers were a 'bunch of busybodies' and others think they were justifiably concerned citizens doing all they could to clean up the internet Personally I admire those who have the courage to identify themselves and defend their opinions publicly.
Then why do you post anonymously.... there is a very good reason why posters do not post with their real name....Brenda certainly didnt and look what happened when her name was known......Brendas problem was she did not want to ...or could not defend her opinions publicly
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Then why do you post anonymously.... there is a very good reason why posters do not post with their real name....Brenda certainly didnt and look what happened when her name was known......Brendas problem was she did not want to ...or could not defend her opinions publicly

The dossier compilers showed no desire to defend their opinions and actions publicly either.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 12:55:44 PM
The dossier compilers showed no desire to defend their opinions and actions publicly either.

Neither had anyone on this forum.. Apart from John... And I stiil post even though my identity iis known and I have received the expected abuse
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 01:19:37 PM
Neither had anyone on this forum.. Apart from John... And I stiil post even though my identity iis known and I have received the expected abuse

What "abuse" Davel ?  I have no idea who you are nor do I want to know but anyone could say their identity is known...to their family and friends at least.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 30, 2018, 01:29:08 PM
the doddier compliers didnt get burned...no one knows who they are...they had every right to go to the press...that is not opinion..its fact

Oh but they did.  They will have the death of a woman on their consciences for ever.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 01:31:24 PM
Oh but they did.  They will have the death of a woman on their consciences for ever.

In your opinion... I doubt it will be on their conscience as I doubt they attach any blame to themselves... Quite right they are too.. Imo
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 30, 2018, 01:31:39 PM
The dossier compilers showed no desire to defend their opinions and actions publicly either.

They disappeared as quickly as Brunty did for fear of exposure so lesson learned imo. Such hypocrites, no more dossiers since.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 01:36:22 PM
They disappeared as quickly as Brunty did for fear of exposure so lesson learned imo. Such hypocrites, no more dossiers since.

May be more in the future... Who knows
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 30, 2018, 01:37:49 PM
In your opinion... I doubt it will be on their conscience as I doubt they attach any blame to themselves... Quite right they are too.. Imo

I attach much blame to them just as I do Sky News, Jonathan Levy and Martin Brunt. In my opinion the coroner was wrong not to attach blame to what occurred. The statement by Brenda's son said it all imo.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 01:48:39 PM
I attach much blame to them just as I do Sky News, Jonathan Levy and Martin Brunt. In my opinion the coroner was wrong not to attach blame to what occurred. The statement by Brenda's son said it all imo.

I dont
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 30, 2018, 02:06:45 PM
They disappeared as quickly as Brunty did for fear of exposure so lesson learned imo. Such hypocrites, no more dossiers since.

No point in dossiers if the police neither have the power, the will or the resources to combat online abuse.  As more and more of our legislators find not only themselves but many of their constituents on the receiving end of it and as it gets aired on a regular basis in parliament it is only a matter of time before that situation will change.

Two years ago MPs such as Maria Miller were campaigning...
Snip
Miller successfully pushed the government to create a new offence of revenge pornography in 2014, outlawing the distribution of a private sexual image of someone without their consent and with the intention of causing them distress. In the same year, ministers quadrupled the maximum six-month prison term for internet trolls targeting people with offensive or threatening material to two years. The time limit for prosecutions has been extended to three years.

However, the MP argued the laws around abuse and harm on the internet could be updated further

Miller said people had tried to talk her out of trying to get the law changed to create a specific offence of revenge pornography, some by saying it was already illegal. “It was quite clear after talking to victims and the police that the complex set of existing and sometimes overlapping legislation made it difficult for the police to take meaningful action,” she said.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/13/britain-needs-better-laws-stop-online-abuse-maria-miller-internet
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 02:07:43 PM
Neither had anyone on this forum.. Apart from John... And I stiil post even though my identity iis known and I have received the expected abuse

I'm not talking about anyone on this forum. I'm talking about people who seemed to want others to be exposed to public scrutiny but weren't prepared to expose themselves. 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 02:10:46 PM
I'm not talking about anyone on this forum. I'm talking about people who seemed to want others to be exposed to public scrutiny but weren't prepared to expose themselves.

Poison Pen Letters.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 02:15:31 PM
Poison Pen Letters.

A good analogy.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 30, 2018, 02:16:43 PM
I attach much blame to them just as I do Sky News, Jonathan Levy and Martin Brunt. In my opinion the coroner was wrong not to attach blame to what occurred. The statement by Brenda's son said it all imo.

The letter from Brenda's son which was accepted into evidence, reveals that he had no concerns about his mother's state of mind or any fear that she would attempt suicide.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Brietta on August 30, 2018, 02:21:47 PM
A good analogy.

In many ways perhaps when one takes the cowardice and malice involved.  But usually the poison pen writer is a very sad individual ... in my opinion when abuse is systematic and organised and the abusers can be counted in their hundreds worldwide ... it alters the whole dynamics of the assaults.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Angelo222 on August 30, 2018, 02:28:52 PM
The letter from Brenda's son which was accepted into evidence, reveals that he had no concerns about his mother's state of mind or any fear that she would attempt suicide.

However...

Her son Ben Leyland, who lives in America, said her ‘outing’ as @sweepyface left his mother “a broken wreck”.

He added: "She was completely destroyed by what had occurred. It was the final straw that pushed my mum to do what she did."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-sky-news-journalist-5371486

That to me implies blame?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 02:34:23 PM
I'm not talking about anyone on this forum. I'm talking about people who seemed to want others to be exposed to public scrutiny but weren't prepared to expose themselves.

It's their business afaiac
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 30, 2018, 02:45:59 PM
In many ways perhaps when one takes the cowardice and malice involved.  But usually the poison pen writer is a very sad individual ... in my opinion when abuse is systematic and organised and the abusers can be counted in their hundreds worldwide ... it alters the whole dynamics of the assaults.

I never thought you would have been that critical of the dossier compilers.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 30, 2018, 02:53:26 PM
I never thought you would have been that critical of the dossier compilers.

mcann  supporters dont have any empathy  for anyone but the mcanns they could  care less  about brenda you know it i know it they know  it   if it had not gone  wrong they wouldnt of  given  brenda anymore thought   as long as the mcanns  were protected   all IMO  the mcanns  dont  even care about    anybody online or so  supporters  say
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 02:54:02 PM
I'm not talking about anyone on this forum. I'm talking about people who seemed to want others to be exposed to public scrutiny but weren't prepared to expose themselves.
So you think police should not act on anonymous tip offs... Everything here is opinion... Sceptics support brenda.... Supporters, support the dossier...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
However...

Her son Ben Leyland, who lives in America, said her ‘outing’ as @sweepyface left his mother “a broken wreck”.

He added: "She was completely destroyed by what had occurred. It was the final straw that pushed my mum to do what she did."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-sky-news-journalist-5371486

That to me implies blame?

Final straw confirms there were other factors at play
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: carlymichelle on August 30, 2018, 03:04:19 PM
However...

Her son Ben Leyland, who lives in America, said her ‘outing’ as @sweepyface left his mother “a broken wreck”.

He added: "She was completely destroyed by what had occurred. It was the final straw that pushed my mum to do what she did."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-sky-news-journalist-5371486

That to me implies blame?

to me too brunt  etc  the dossier  put her ove rthe edge brunt and the dossier  people are to blame for that imho
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 03:05:08 PM
So you think police should not act on anonymous tip offs... Everything here is opinion... Sceptics support brenda.... Supporters, support the dossier...


I am sure that would at least be against forum rules. Why does it matter who anyone is.

Why did it matter who Brenda was in real life, she clearly was no threat to the McCanns yet Brunt collared her outside her house and the media attacked her like baying hounds.   

Because of the dossier people and Brunt etc's actions Brenda is dead. Unless one of the supporters can show that she would have taken her life anyway, without having her life ruined by them.   Regardless of what you think about her tweets she did not deserve that but at least one poster on here appear to think that dossier mark 2 is worth thinking about.  Then another death may be (at least partially) on their hands IMO.

Why did the McCanns not speak out on her behalf as surely this was exactly what their Hacked off campaign was all about.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 30, 2018, 03:21:43 PM
So you think police should not act on anonymous tip offs... Everything here is opinion... Sceptics support brenda.... Supporters, support the dossier...

It is fatuous to assume it can be so simply delineated.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Erngath on August 30, 2018, 03:30:27 PM
mcann  supporters dont have any empathy  for anyone but the mcanns they could  care less  about brenda you know it i know it they know  it   if it had not gone  wrong they wouldnt of  given  brenda anymore thought   as long as the mcanns  were protected   all IMO  the mcanns  dont  even care about    anybody online or so  supporters  say


Once again you post the same untruths.
No matter how often I and others tell you that we do have empathy for others as well as the McCanns, you continue to trot out the same line over and over.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 03:34:22 PM
It is fatuous to asume it can be so simply delineated.
That makes me smile...
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 05:31:14 PM
I think it's a major problem of anonymous  social media comments, that posters make posts that they would not make to a persons face... That's exactly what happened  to Brenda... As I posted previously posters need to be more responsible... I would be happy to repeat any criticism I have made here to the person concerned
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:46:42 PM
Either the dossier compilers were doing a good thing, as claimed, in which case it shouldn’t be an issue to be associated with it, or they were doing a bad thing.
If I admitted to being one of the dossier compilers what sort of reaction could I expect from Brend’s supporters on here?  How about if I gave you my full name and contact details, could you guarantee I would be safe from harrassment and abuse?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:47:49 PM
I would love to see a definition of a 'decent' person. I see it as related to 'respectable'. In my opinion many people have been seen as decent and respectable..............until they were found out.
Exactly like Brenda.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:50:31 PM
I agree. The internet has given everyone the opportunity to express their opinions. We all read opinions we disagree with or which we find offensive. That doesn't give us the right to take action against those who have offended us. Posting anonymously and offending others isn't illegal.
You cannot be serious.  I don’t have the right to take action against those who have offended me?!  Of course I have that right!
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 30, 2018, 05:53:30 PM
What sort of action would you have in mind ?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:54:45 PM
I attach much blame to them just as I do Sky News, Jonathan Levy and Martin Brunt. In my opinion the coroner was wrong not to attach blame to what occurred. The statement by Brenda's son said it all imo.
What nonsense.  You’ll be calling for it to be made illegal for people to contact the media with their concerns about possible criminal behaviour next.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:56:22 PM
I'm not talking about anyone on this forum. I'm talking about people who seemed to want others to be exposed to public scrutiny but weren't prepared to expose themselves.
What’s wrong with that? 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:57:04 PM
A good analogy.
A rubbish analogy.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
What sort of action would you have in mind ?
Depends doesn’t it?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
If I admitted to being one of the dossier compilers what sort of reaction could I expect from Brend’s supporters on here?  How about if I gave you my full name and contact details, could you guarantee I would be safe from harrassment and abuse?

If you admitted to be a compiler then you would get nothing from me apart from a couple of questions.

1) Did you think of any possible consequences of providing the full details of sceptics to various sources in the media
2) Would you do it again.

There may be more questions but I can't think of any at present. Of course you could admit it (if you were a dossier compiler of course) without giving your name and contact details. I can't see why anyone would need those, unless they were compiling a dossier of course.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 30, 2018, 06:04:29 PM
Depends doesn’t it?

Does It ? Upon what does it depend?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 06:11:10 PM
If you admitted to be a compiler then you would get nothing from me apart from a couple of questions.

1) Did you think of any possible consequences of providing the full details of sceptics to various sources in the media
2) Would you do it again.

There may be more questions but I can't think of any at present. Of course you could admit it (if you were a dossier compiler of course) without giving your name and contact details. I can't see why anyone would need those, unless they were compiling a dossier of course.
If I was a (the) dossier compiler I would answer your questions.  As I’m not I can’t.  I could pretend to be one though if you like, and see where we go with it...?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 06:12:43 PM
Does It ? Upon what does it depend?
What was said, where it was said, how it was said, why it was said, who said it, etc.  Do you think I would have no right to take action against those that offend me, seriously?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 30, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
What was said, where it was said, how it was said, why it was said, who said it, etc. Do you think I would have no right to take action against those that offend me, seriously?

That wasn't my query, which was about your action.
Not sure that you should or would have a right, as your action might be illegal.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 06:20:09 PM
Does It ? Upon what does it depend?

As most bullies are cowards at heart it would depend if they made a grovelling apology
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 06:21:38 PM
That wasn't my query, which was about your action.
Not sure that you should or would have a right, as your action might be illegal.
I don’t do illegal so would I have the right to take action legally or not?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: jassi on August 30, 2018, 06:25:53 PM
I don’t do illegal so would I have the right to take action, legally or not?

No body has given you this 'right', though you have  a degree of freedom of action, as long as you stay within the law.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 06:27:00 PM
No body has given you this 'right', though you have  a degree of freedom of action, as long as you stay within the law.

Then he has that right... As I do..
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 06:32:35 PM
No body has given you this 'right', though you have  a degree of freedom of action, as long as you stay within the law.
In other words it is nonsense to say I have no right to take action against someone who offends me.  I can sue them for starters, if their offensive statement is based on lies, I can remonstrate with them in person or by message, I can reciprocate in kind, if the offensive statement concerns my sexuality or ethnic origin or religion I can go to the police, likewise if the offensive statement is threatening or intimidating, I can even go to the media, if the offensive statement was made by someone with a public profile that would be in the public interest, or of interest to the public.  Plenty of ways I could take action, all within the law.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 06:39:16 PM
Brenda thought she had the right to say what she liked with impunity... She didn't.   
 
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 06:57:03 PM
Is it true that every UK citizen has the right not to have their name publicised by the media until they have been charged with a crime, as per the OP? Wasn’t there a nurse in the news recently arrested for murdering eight babies, her name released but no charges brought so far.  Who’s to blame if she were to take her own life?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 07:53:13 PM
Twitter is a lawless place where insults seem to be the norm. This forum is pretty good in my opinion as there are rules preventing such behaviour.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 07:55:09 PM
Twitter is a lawless place where insults seem to be the norm. This forum is pretty good in my opinion as there are rules preventing such behaviour.

You miss, a very important  point... Twitter isn't lawless
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 08:00:50 PM
You miss, a very important  point... Twitter isn't lawless

Compared to this forum it is imo. Surely the dossier compilers tried complaining on there first?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 08:03:15 PM
Compared to this forum it is imo. Surely the dossier compilers tried complaining on there first?

The correct place for them to take their complaint was to the police... IMO... And if the police don't act... Go to the press

If a certain person hadn't stopped harassing and abusing me and my wife I would have done exactly the same
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: barrier on August 30, 2018, 08:47:57 PM
Is it true that every UK citizen has the right not to have their name publicised by the media until they have been charged with a crime, as per the OP? Wasn’t there a nurse in the news recently arrested for murdering eight babies, her name released but no charges brought so far.  Who’s to blame if she were to take her own life?

So you agree that Brenda shouldn't have had her name published having committed no crime,much the same as Alec Salmond who is being dragged through the mud having to defend his name against as yet unsubstantiated claims. Carl Sargeant a welsh MP committed suicide after being named after allegations him surfaced. note not having been convicted, the press have an awful lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 09:47:50 PM
So you agree that Brenda shouldn't have had her name published having committed no crime,much the same as Alec Salmond who is being dragged through the mud having to defend his name against as yet unsubstantiated claims. Carl Sargeant a welsh MP committed suicide after being named after allegations him surfaced. note not having been convicted, the press have an awful lot to answer for.
I don’t believe I ever said what you said I said did I?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 09:49:52 PM
So you agree that Brenda shouldn't have had her name published having committed no crime,much the same as Alec Salmond who is being dragged through the mud having to defend his name against as yet unsubstantiated claims. Carl Sargeant a welsh MP committed suicide after being named after allegations him surfaced. note not having been convicted, the press have an awful lot to answer for.

Gutter journalism relying on gossip and innuendo rather than facts. They have driven people to alternative sources in their search for the truth. I imagine they're surviving on those piles of ads festooning their sites on the internet now. You can't read their 'stories' for them now.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:00:14 PM
Gutter journalism relying on gossip and innuendo rather than facts. They have driven people to alternative sources in their search for the truth. I imagine they're surviving on those piles of ads festooning their sites on the internet now. You can't read their 'stories' for them now.

No complaints when the press, were printing gossip and innuendo about the McCanns?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 10:07:49 PM
No complaints when the press, were printing gossip and innuendo about the McCanns?

Was G-Unit there? I know I wasn't.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:12:40 PM
Was G-Unit there? I know I wasn't.

You mean you weren't following  the case, when the press was printing gossip and inuendo against the McCann's.. I certainly was
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2018, 10:15:30 PM
No complaints when the press, were printing gossip and innuendo about the McCanns

I wasn't interested at the time and I haven't read newspapers for years anyway. They have continued printing gossip and innuendo ever since, just not about the McCanns; they're too scared of Carter-Ruck. They pick on those who can't fight back now, like 'women in purple'.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 10:17:55 PM
I wasn't interested at the time and I haven't read newspapers for years anyway. They have continued printing gossip and innuendo ever since, just not about the McCanns; they're too scared of Carter-Ruck. They pick on those who can't fight back now, like 'women in purple'.

And of course Brenda Leyland.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:18:18 PM
I wasn't interested at the time and I haven't read newspapers for years anyway. They have continued printing gossip and innuendo ever since, just not about the McCanns; they're too scared of Carter-Ruck. They pick on those who can't fight back now, like 'women in purple'.
I read them online.. Of course they are frightened  of CR... And so they should be... They can print anything supported by evidence.. And that's how it should be
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:19:18 PM
And of course Brenda Leyland.

IMO nothing was printed about Brenda that wasn't true... That was her problem
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 30, 2018, 10:20:23 PM
I wasn't interested at the time and I haven't read newspapers for years anyway. They have continued printing gossip and innuendo ever since, just not about the McCanns; they're too scared of Carter-Ruck. They pick on those who can't fight back now, like 'women in purple'.
Cliff Richard, Alex Salmond, Harvey Weinstein, are these less scary than the McCanns?
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:26:14 PM
I've been far more harshly treated by the media than brenda ever was... But I never contemplated suicide... It's ridiculous  to suggest sky caused brendas death
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Sunny on August 30, 2018, 10:31:08 PM
IMO nothing was printed about  Brenda that wasn't true... That was her problem

Apart from calling her a troll perhaps?

In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

This sense of both the noun and the verb "troll" is associated with Internet discourse, but also has been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, the mass media have used "troll" to mean "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families".[4][5] In addition, depictions of trolling have been included in popular fictional works, such as the HBO television program The Newsroom, in which a main character encounters harassing persons online and tries to infiltrate their circles by posting negative sexual comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

From what I have read Brenda wasn't doing twitter to laugh at the McCanns but because she genuinely believed that the parents were guilty in some way. She was more of a justice seeker than a troll IMO but perhaps got carried away from time to time as many on there appear to do.  There are some nasty unpleasant posters on twitter that I have read, on both sides of the argument but I don't see any of the nastier supporters being "outed" in the dossier.
Title: Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
Post by: Davel on August 30, 2018, 10:34:09 PM
Apart from calling her a troll perhaps?

In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous