UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: Miss Taken Identity on February 17, 2019, 04:43:31 PM

Title: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 17, 2019, 04:43:31 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1088370/brexit-news-nigel-farage-brexit-party-ukip-new-party
 
There seems to be a growing debate regarding ISIS brides returning to the UK. Should they be allowed to further stain our nation with their poisenous,vile,distorted islamic learning/teachings?


"Ms Begum said she was lured to leave her comfortable life and family in Bethnal Green behind by slickly produced videos she found on social media." But this is the excuse for sympathy (twatters get a twitting about her human rights), although it is fair to say she really liked being an ISI bride and was 'just a housewife' untill they lost control of ground. oh diddums.

“It would be a really big shock to go back to the UK and start life again.”

oh not really, the home bred extremist with asstistance from bleedin hearts are alive and well and at work to keep your nasty lifestyle a reality in this fair dear land.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/two-hour-rape-and-torture-of-honour-killing-girl-murdered-by-her-family-7296270.html

you can skip to 1:00.25 onwards if you are squeamish.

As a note, when I and other were writing about this we were classed as rascist we still are... Pround to be a rascist- thanks.


What sort of life did she enjoy with ISIS?  rape,sex slaves, whipping and beating women for letting a scarf slip to the side of a face- no education for women...sounds idilyic !

We now have a growing number of Islamic schools where children wear clothing akin to arabic/muslim culture- we have no way of interfering or disinfecting the brainwashing of young people- and it isn't just muslims either. Young people are being recriuted of any age and any culture/colour.  Schools Universities etc

FGM is still alive and well- and was ignored for many,many years. some nurses lost their jobs for being whistleblowers.

The ISIS returning bride- will feel right at home amonst her 'own folks'.

The fight goes on to rid us of these ideaoligist and their apologists. We really do need to bring back Treason as a real implementable law.

42
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2019, 05:10:14 PM
Yes I think she should be allowed back and given a nice flat in Tower Hamlets.  I think we should give her all the benefits she and her child deserve, poor wee things. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2019, 05:12:43 PM
This OP is way too emotive.  I am not sure if I should have Approved this.  But there does have to be a middle of the road attitude.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 17, 2019, 05:17:43 PM
Yes I think she should be allowed back and given a nice flat in Tower Hamlets.  I think we should give her all the benefits she and her child deserve, poor wee things.

Oh to be so glib about a real threat to British born women of any colour or faith. Your post shows you have no real concern for fellow citizens and the real threat posed to us.

Boring banal diatribe is all that eminates from you.

nothing to see here folks.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2019, 05:26:52 PM
Oh to be so glib about a real threat to British born women of any colour or faith. Your post shows you have no real concern for fellow citizens and the real threat posed to us.

Boring banal diatribe is all that eminates from you.

nothing to see here folks.

You can stop this sort of attack now.  Or this thread will go no further with your imput..
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2019, 05:45:05 PM
Oh to be so glib about a real threat to British born women of any colour or faith. Your post shows you have no real concern for fellow citizens and the real threat posed to us.

Boring banal diatribe is all that eminates from you.

nothing to see here folks.
  8)><( you’re being soooooo nasty to me today.  8)><(
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2019, 06:16:42 PM
  8)><( you’re being soooooo nasty to me today.  8)><(

There are times when you deserve everything you get.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2019, 07:06:07 PM
There are times when you deserve everything you get.
  Feel free to give me a warning, I haven’t had one in ages and I’m sure I’m long overdue.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2019, 07:08:02 PM
Incidentally, for the avoidance of doubt, IMO ISIS Brides can do one.  No pity, no forgiveness, no ticket home.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2019, 09:49:33 PM
ISIS brides have the right to come back, but not to have the journey funded by the UK authorities as I understand it.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
ISIS brides have the right to come back, but not to have the journey funded by the UK authorities as I understand it.
The question was “should they be allowed back?”
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 06:13:03 AM
The question was “should they be allowed back?”
It's not a case of allowing  them, they can;t be stoppd if they're UK citizens.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2019, 07:19:56 AM
It's not a case of allowing  them, they can;t be stoppd if they're UK citizens.
If she was born in the UK her child would have the right to apply for British citizenship.....
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 07:29:38 AM
It's not a case of allowing  them, they can;t be stoppd if they're UK citizens.
They can be stripped of their citizenship.  Leaving the country to join ISIS should result in an automatic rescinding of all citizenship rights IMO.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2019, 07:48:55 AM
They can be stripped of their citizenship.  Leaving the country to join ISIS should result in an automatic rescinding of all citizenship rights IMO.

Being s threat to national security can result in loss of citizenship
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 08:08:51 AM
Being s threat to national security can result in loss of citizenship
This woman should be made an example of so that when other girls decide to go find an ISIS husband they know that they will be banished from the country forever. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 08:10:39 AM
They can be stripped of their citizenship.  Leaving the country to join ISIS should result in an automatic rescinding of all citizenship rights IMO.

People with only British citizenship can't be stripped of their citizenship.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 08:14:53 AM
People with only British citizenship can't be stripped of their citizenship.
Oh.  Better tell the Home Secretary then cos he said they could.  Once again, you demonstrate your superior knowledge in all things.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2019, 08:16:43 AM
you need to do a little more research



People with only British citizenship can't be stripped of their citizenship.

You can lose your citizenship if you’re a naturalised British citizen if it’s found that you’ve lied on your application. Although it’s possible to lose your citizenship if you’re a British national by birth, it’s unusual, and usually only happens if someone is considered a threat to national security. The Home Secretary can choose to remove citizenship in this case.

transferwise.com/gb/blog/dual-citizenship-united-kingdom

British citizenship used to be for life - but a growing number of people are being stripped of their passports. BBC Radio 4's Law in Action programme investigates.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21783475


Under section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981, as amended in 2006, the home secretary may make an order depriving a person of citizenship status if they are "satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good". No reasons need be given and no court approval is required.

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 08:23:40 AM
Perhaps we should put it to a national referendum,  I have a feeling I know which way the public would vote and then we would be morally obliged to carry out the will of the people.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 08:36:20 AM
This woman should be made an example of so that when other girls decide to go find an ISIS husband they know that they will be banished from the country forever.

Making examples of people has never been shown to work, unfortunately. It's an empty threat anyway as British  born citizens can't be banished. She should be prosecuted if she's committed an offence and she should be closely monitored. The best outcome would be rehabilitation followed by her speaking out to advise others not to do as she did, She may be saying certain things at the moment to keep herself safe from retaliation.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 08:53:22 AM
you need to do a little more research



You can lose your citizenship if you’re a naturalised British citizen if it’s found that you’ve lied on your application. Although it’s possible to lose your citizenship if you’re a British national by birth, it’s unusual, and usually only happens if someone is considered a threat to national security. The Home Secretary can choose to remove citizenship in this case.

transferwise.com/gb/blog/dual-citizenship-united-kingdom

British citizenship used to be for life - but a growing number of people are being stripped of their passports. BBC Radio 4's Law in Action programme investigates.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21783475


Under section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981, as amended in 2006, the home secretary may make an order depriving a person of citizenship status if they are "satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good". No reasons need be given and no court approval is required.


As I understand it citizenship can be removed from naturalised citizens and those with dual nationalities. It can't be removed from someone who is British by birth and only British. Renoving their citizenship would nake them stateless which would be a breach of international law.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 08:59:35 AM
Making examples of people has never been shown to work, unfortunately. It's an empty threat anyway as British  born citizens can't be banished. She should be prosecuted if she's committed an offence and she should be closely monitored. The best outcome would be rehabilitation followed by her speaking out to advise others not to do as she did, She may be saying certain things at the moment to keep herself safe from retaliation.
What, like if she’d said she was disturbed at the sight of a head in a bin they’d retaliate? 

 I get the feeling that if I had made a post like yours above you would have found a reason to disagree with it.  Is running away to get married to an ISIS terrorist a criminal offence in this country?  Perhaps she should be tried in Syria where the offence was committed? 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 09:10:59 AM
What, like if she’d said she was disturbed at the sight of a head in a bin they’d retaliate? 

 I get the feeling that if I had made a post like yours above you would have found a reason to disagree with it.  Is running away to get married to an ISIS terrorist a criminal offence in this country?  Perhaps she should be tried in Syria where the offence was committed?

I expect there are ISIS people in that camp and it's not unreasonable to imagine they woouldn't take kindly to her speaking against them.

I don't know if it's against the law to do what she did, but if it is she will no doubt be prosecuted if she makes it back here.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 09:16:49 AM
I expect there are ISIS people in that camp and it's not unreasonable to imagine they woouldn't take kindly to her speaking against them.

I don't know if it's against the law to do what she did, but if it is she will no doubt be prosecuted if she makes it back here.
She has made it plain it’s not much fun out there, the caliphate is over and she’s desperate to come home, but you don’t think the ISIS people would take issue with that?

And if she is prosecuted over here and found not guilty will that be ok with The Will Of The People?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 09:29:22 AM
From today’s Times


A teenager caught as she headed to Syria to become a jihadist bride was never prosecuted despite police finding a cache of extremist material including plans of a key target for Islamic State, The Times can reveal.

The girl, 15, was hauled by police from a flight, which had been just about to take off from Heathrow in December 2014. She was one of five school-aged girls from Bethnal Green, east London, to attempt to join the terrorist group and the only one not to be successful.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: John on February 18, 2019, 10:06:58 AM
People with only British citizenship can't be stripped of their citizenship.

The thing is though, she voluntarily left the UK to join a terrorist State in the form of ISIS or Daesh.  Furthermore, as she joined our enemies during a state of war she has committed treason and is a traitor. I'm quite sure those who are supposed to run our justice department in Whitehall or wherever they hang out can work that one out for themselves or am I wrong?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 10:11:06 AM
She has made it plain it’s not much fun out there, the caliphate is over and she’s desperate to come home, but you don’t think the ISIS people would take issue with that?

And if she is prosecuted over here and found not guilty will that be ok with The Will Of The People?

As neither of us are there, we don't know, do we? All I said was that she may be being careful what she says avout them.

Decisions to prosecute and the outcome are matters of law, not of will.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: John on February 18, 2019, 10:13:55 AM
Perhaps we should put it to a national referendum,  I have a feeling I know which way the public would vote and then we would be morally obliged to carry out the will of the people.

We asked the question on twitter with this response by nearly 18,000 uses...

The UK government needs to be extremely careful how they respond in case they set the wrong preceded to others who will follow.  Are we really going to accept these individuals back with little or no consequences?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2019, 10:33:37 AM
As I understand it citizenship can be removed from naturalised citizens and those with dual nationalities. It can't be removed from someone who is British by birth and only British. Renoving their citizenship would nake them stateless which would be a breach of international law.

 Citizenship can be removed make ng someone stateless as Ling as they are eligible to apply for citizenship of another country..
I would imagine her parents have, a nationality she would be entitled to... Her husband is dutch... She us eligible... So legally her citizenship can be removed
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
The thing is though, she voluntarily left the UK to join a terrorist State in the form of ISIS or Daesh.  Furthermore, as she joined our enemies during a state of war she has committed treason and is a traitor. I'm quite sure those who are supposed to run our justice department in Whitehall or wherever they hang out can work that one out for themselves or am I wrong?

Even those who went to fight haven't been charged with treason on their retirn AFAIK, but I don't know why.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: John on February 18, 2019, 10:45:53 AM
Citizenship can be removed make ng someone stateless as Ling as they are eligible to apply for citizenship of another country..
I would imagine her parents have, a nationality she would be entitled to... Her husband is dutch... She us eligible... So legally her citizenship can be removed

Good point.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 10:47:45 AM
Citizenship can be removed make ng someone stateless as Ling as they are eligible to apply for citizenship of another country..
I would imagine her parents have, a nationality she would be entitled to... Her husband is dutch... She us eligible... So legally her citizenship can be removed

So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: John on February 18, 2019, 10:48:53 AM
Even those who went to fight haven't been charged with treason on their retirn AFAIK, but I don't know why.

Many went to fight and help the Kurds when they were being slaughtered by IS. They will be allowed to return without prosecution.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 10:50:23 AM
As neither of us are there, we don't know, do we? All I said was that she may be being careful what she says avout them.

Decisions to prosecute and the outcome are matters of law, not of will.
And she may be lying, absolutely loving it out there and desperate to come back the UK in order to take part in some future plot to assassinate the Queen, and the baby thing is a lie.  We just don't know do we?  Better safe than sorry IMO. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 10:53:34 AM
So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?
What did International Law have to say about Guantanamo Bay?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2019, 10:58:18 AM
So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?

I don't think anything... Ms Weston... An immigration barrister does... From the BBC link


But Amanda Weston, a barrister who practises in immigration law, told Law in Action the Home Office often waited until individuals were outside the UK before depriving them of their citizenship. Challenging the decision from abroad could be difficult, especially if issues of national security were involved.

Ms Weston said the home secretary could not take away a person's citizenship if that would leave the individual stateless.

But the barrister said it was not necessary for the person to hold another nationality before losing UK citizenship, provided they were deemed eligible to seek a passport from another country.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 11:04:04 AM
And she may be lying, absolutely loving it out there and desperate to come back the UK in order to take part in some future plot to assassinate the Queen, and the baby thing is a lie.  We just don't know do we?  Better safe than sorry IMO.

It's a matter of law, not opinion. As I understand it she can't be prevented from entering the UK if she turns up here.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 11:16:10 AM
It's a matter of law, not opinion. As I understand it she can't be prevented from entering the UK if she turns up here.
You were giving your opinion that she was saying things because ISIS were threatening her.  I was giving my opinion that she might be lying.  If you can give yours, why can I not give mine without you pulling the rug from under the discussion?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 12:42:44 PM
I don't think anything... Ms Weston... An immigration barrister does... From the BBC link


But Amanda Weston, a barrister who practises in immigration law, told Law in Action the Home Office often waited until individuals were outside the UK before depriving them of their citizenship. Challenging the decision from abroad could be difficult, especially if issues of national security were involved.

Ms Weston said the home secretary could not take away a person's citizenship if that would leave the individual stateless.

But the barrister said it was not necessary for the person to hold another nationality before losing UK citizenship, provided they were deemed eligible to seek a passport from another country.

We don't know if she's eligible for another nationality though, do we?  I expect that would need to be confirmed before any action was taken.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
We don't know if she's eligible for another nationality though, do we?  I expect that would need to be confirmed before any action was taken.

Yes we do
Her son does not have a uk passport...he can apply for uk citizenship...
the point I am making is a uk citizen can be stripped of citizenship...i  am fairly sure her father was not born in the UK....

British citizenship if she is not a dual national, as that would leave her stateless, which is contrary to international law. However, the home secretary has been advised that because Begum’s mother holds a Bangladeshi passport, he may be able to.


looks like the Home Office understand the law
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 18, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
The thing is though, she voluntarily left the UK to join a terrorist State in the form of ISIS or Daesh.  Furthermore, as she joined our enemies during a state of war she has committed treason and is a traitor. I'm quite sure those who are supposed to run our justice department in Whitehall or wherever they hang out can work that one out for themselves or am I wrong?
I think that may be a part of the problem, John: who exactly are our enemies?  I think we have very many strange bedfellows over in that part of the world as suits the exigencies of the men in faraway lands playing war games ... only with real people.

If I recall correctly the genesis of our present bout of meddling on the fringes of 'tyrant regime change' was aimed at removing Assad which left a vacuum in huge areas of Syria which IS opportunistically claimed as its Caliphate.

The caliphate as an entity hasn't lasted long but the individual units of which it was composed are still in existence and getting ready to lash out like a wounded animal to bring their ideology of death and destruction to their countries of origin while survivors they displaced in Syria etc. are returning to reclaim the civilised lives they once enjoyed.

That a child born, nurtured and educated in Britain could by the age of fifteen be so desensitised to all that is decent that describing viewing severed heads in trash bins without experiencing a qualm then or in retrospect must surely give us pause for thought.
These people were indoctrinated and radicalised while here and I think the challenge for us as a society is to prevent that happening to others now and in the future with returnees from the chaos they participated in perhaps being adopted as role models.

I think we are up against an ideology here ... so what is the best way to combat that?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: John on February 19, 2019, 01:53:20 PM
I think that may be a part of the problem, John: who exactly are our enemies?  I think we have very many strange bedfellows over in that part of the world as suits the exigencies of the men in faraway lands playing war games ... only with real people.

If I recall correctly the genesis of our present bout of meddling on the fringes of 'tyrant regime change' was aimed at removing Assad which left a vacuum in huge areas of Syria which IS opportunistically claimed as its Caliphate.

The caliphate as an entity hasn't lasted long but the individual units of which it was composed are still in existence and getting ready to lash out like a wounded animal to bring their ideology of death and destruction to their countries of origin while survivors they displaced in Syria etc. are returning to reclaim the civilised lives they once enjoyed.

That a child born, nurtured and educated in Britain could by the age of fifteen be so desensitised to all that is decent that describing viewing severed heads in trash bins without experiencing a qualm then or in retrospect must surely give us pause for thought.
These people were indoctrinated and radicalised while here and I think the challenge for us as a society is to prevent that happening to others now and in the future with returnees from the chaos they participated in perhaps being adopted as role models.

I think we are up against an ideology here ... so what is the best way to combat that?

Well for starters I would ban any form of radcal Islam in the UK and deport all Muslims involved in such to a 'Muslim' country where they can spread the word of Allah to their heart's content without disrupting true Islam or our Christian values.

And some people wonder why these girls have grown up radicalised.

Independent Online SA
Published 15 February 2019


The father of Sharmeena Begum – the first teenager from the East London school to flee to Syria – urged the British government to forgive her.

Begum, who loved watching EastEnders and wanted to be a doctor, vanished in December 2015 at the age of 15.

Two months later she was joined in Raqqa, the self-styled capital of the Islamic State, by her best friends Kadiza Sultana, Amira Abase and Shamima Begum.

RELATED ARTICLES
Last night Sharmeena’s father Mohammad Uddin said the girls should be forgiven because they were radicalised and brainwashed. A local imam disagreed, sayinig they were "a danger to the community".

Mr Uddin, a restaurant worker, said: "They should all be allowed to come home. When they went to Syria they were not mature and they had been radicalised.

"They were not able to form their own opinions because they had been brainwashed. They went when they were very young and it’s not a big deal if they realise what they did is wrong. We should forgive them.

"If they do the wrong thing and then realise 'that was totally wrong' then they should be forgiven. If my daughter could come home and say 'forgive me', I would forgive her, obviously."

Abase’s father Hussen claimed that his daughter fled to Syria on a humanitarian mission after seeing images of civilians starving on the internet. He urged the government to let her and the others back in to the country, insisting: "They are no threat to us."

Mr Abase, 52, a security guard who came to Britain as a refugee from Ethiopia in 1999, said: "The girls should be allowed to come back. When they left the country they were teenagers. They [British officials] have to understand that.

"She is a naturally generous person. She saw in the media and on the internet [that] people over there are starving and I think she wanted to go and help. I have had no contact with her since she left. It’s been very hard on my family – I have a wife and two other children, aged 13 and 17. They all miss her. It was just a mistake that the girls left their families to go to a place like that."

Shamima Begum, the third surviving Bethnal Green schoolgirl, who is pregnant with her third child, was tracked down by The Times to a refugee camp in northern Syria. Her family echoed the words of Mr Uddin and Mr Abase and pleaded with the Government to allow her to return to the UK.

Her sister Renu told ITV News: "She’s pregnant and vulnerable, and it’s important we get her out of al-Hawl camp and home as soon as possible. We hope the British government will help us bring her home to us where she belongs. This news has come to us as a shock."

Tasnime Akunjee, the family’s lawyer, added: "The family do not want to comment, they are trying to process it at the moment."

Mr Akunjee said he was not sure if Begum’s family are considering whether they would take custody of her child if it was removed from her care on her return to the UK.

"That’s something they would have to work out for themselves," he said. "My role with the family is trying to bring Shamima back."

When asked if Shamima could be prosecuted, he said: ‘The question would be has she committed any offences? It depends on the evidence there is of her activities.

"These girls were children that were groomed and once someone is out there it is difficult to try to come back ... sometimes it can be lethal."

Mr Uddin issued an emotional plea to his daughter, saying: ‘All I want is for you to come home. I last heard from Sharmeena two or three months ago.

"She sent me a WhatsApp message. She said: 'I’m okay, how are you?' But by the time I saw the message I couldn’t contact her back, the number wasn’t going through. I think she [sent messages] from internet cafes. She hasn’t told me she wants to come home or anything, just a few messages."

The family of Sultana, who is believed to have been killed by a Russian airstrike on Raqqa in 2016, did not want to comment.

East London community leaders in the area warned against letting the girls return. Moulana Malik, the imam at the Baitul Aman mosque and cultural centre in Bethnal Green, said: "For the peace of the country we think that for all types of criminal people we don’t want them to come back into the community or at large.

"They are a danger. They think bad things – their views are not in line with the peace of the community. We think the girls were brainwashed. Online and here as well, some people may have communicated bad thoughts to them. They are a danger for the community."

Mr Abase himself came under fire after it emerged that he had been part of a flag-burning mob outside the US embassy in London in 2012.

Also at the rally were hate cleric Anjem Choudary and Michael Adebowale, one of the killers of Fusilier Lee Rigby. Mr Abase admitted going to two further rallies, with his impressionable daughter in tow.

The mother of the white British Islamic convert known as ‘Jihadi Jack’ joined the calls for Shamima Begum to be allowed back into Britain. Sally Letts, 55, said at her Oxford home: "Of course she should allowed back. She was a child, she was groomed and abused and now they want to judge her as an adult!"

Jack Letts, 22, went to IS territory and was captured two years ago by Kurdish fighters. He is awaiting trial in northern Syria.

Letts denies joining the terror group and his parents deny three charges of financially aiding terrorism. They are due to go on trial at the Old Bailey in May They allege Letts went to the region for "religious and humanitarian reasons".


https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/families-say-brainwashed-jihadi-brides-should-be-forgiven-19322108
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2019, 07:25:02 PM
It seems Shamima Begum has had her British citizenship revoked.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 19, 2019, 07:30:29 PM
So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?

as I correctly said...her citizenship could be,...and has been revoked...those who you think did understand the law...did not....she can now apply for her bangladeshi passport....im fairly sure her son has no right to a UK passport either...I wonder what diane abbott...the shadow home secretary ...will have to say
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
It seems Shamima Begum has had her British citizenship revoked.
Good news, and confirms what I said a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 19, 2019, 08:15:52 PM
It seems Shamima Begum has had her British citizenship revoked.

It seems she is entitled to a Bangladeshi Passport.  Her son is not entitled to a British Passport.

Excellent outcome.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2019, 08:34:28 PM
It seems she is entitled to a Bangladeshi Passport.  Her son is not entitled to a British Passport.

Excellent outcome.
The poor wee child.  Perhaps Dutch or perhaps Bangladeshi but certainly stateless at the moment.  A bit ironic considering his maternal grandparents made the leap to come to Britain no doubt for a better life.  Which his mother has just taken it into her mind to trample into the dust on his behalf without giving it a thought much as she didn't give a thought to those displaced, terrorised or killed by the Daesh monsters whose ideals she actively espoused.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 19, 2019, 08:40:47 PM
The poor wee child.  Perhaps Dutch or perhaps Bangladeshi but certainly stateless at the moment.  A bit ironic considering his maternal grandparents made the leap to come to Britain no doubt for a better life.  Which his mother has just taken it into her mind to trample into the dust on his behalf without giving it a thought much as she didn't give a thought to those displaced, terrorised or killed by the Daesh monsters whose ideals she actively espoused.

In these situations, and there will be others, only The Law can apply.  The child could well be entitled to a Dutch Passport.

Removing him from his mother sounds like a good idea to me.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 19, 2019, 10:13:57 PM
It seems she is entitled to a Bangladeshi Passport.  Her son is not entitled to a British Passport.

Excellent outcome.

It is indeed an excellent outcome. Her parents talk about her being groomed and brainwashed- the only reason she is coming back is because they lost ground in their  world domination plan! AND she is hungry and it isn't nice over there anymore.


She also claims that the Manchester Bombing was justified...


Her family must be wealthy  I doubt if they will get legal aid as they have no claim to make. Their daughter is an adult who enjoys being a terrorist- talking the talk and walking the walk! will not receive legal aid either.

 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 06:59:40 AM
In my opinion the Home Secretary knows very well that he is breaking international law. What he has achieved is a delay.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 07:13:08 AM
In my opinion the Home Secretary knows very well that he is breaking international law. What he has achieved is a delay.
And good on him I say. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 07:27:24 AM
And good on him I say.

Why this girl when 400 others, including fighters, have been allowed back in?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 07:31:05 AM
Why this girl when 400 others, including fighters, have been allowed back in?
These two haven’t
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/oct/09/uk-has-no-legal-obligations-over-isis-suspects-el-shafee-elsheikh-high-court-told

It’s time we got tougher and stopped letting these people back.  Most UK citizens agree with me so it is the will of the people.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 08:38:48 AM
These two haven’t
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/oct/09/uk-has-no-legal-obligations-over-isis-suspects-el-shafee-elsheikh-high-court-told

It’s time we got tougher and stopped letting these people back.  Most UK citizens agree with me so it is the will of the people.

We can get tough if we have the laws needed. Getting tough by bending the law is another matter. Hundreds have been allowed back but only 40 have been prosecuted. If the UK want to get tough they need to pass new laws.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1088454/shamima-begum-isis-news-islamic-state-home-office-returning-jihadis

The will of the people isn't expressed in newspaper stories, it's exppressed via the Ballot Box.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 20, 2019, 09:14:52 AM
We can get tough if we have the laws needed. Getting tough by bending the law is another matter. Hundreds have been allowed back but only 40 have been prosecuted. If the UK want to get tough they need to pass new laws.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1088454/shamima-begum-isis-news-islamic-state-home-office-returning-jihadis

The will of the people isn't expressed in newspaper stories, it's exppressed via the Ballot Box.

If any of these persons has the right to another passport then they can be deprived of their UK Nationality.  That is already The Law.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
If any of these persons has the right to another passport then they can be deprived of their UK Nationality.  That is already The Law.

If being the important word. It's by no means certain that this girl has the right to Bangladeshi nationality. If she had the right she wouldn't need to ask for it and they wouldn't be able to refuse her imo.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 20, 2019, 10:33:53 AM
If being the important word. It's by no means certain that this girl has the right to Bangladeshi nationality. If she had the right she wouldn't need to ask for it and they wouldn't be able to refuse her imo.

Her mother has a Bangladeshi Passport.  This girl only has to apply.  She cannot be refused.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 11:24:33 AM
Her mother has a Bangladeshi Passport.  This girl only has to apply.  She cannot be refused.

If one of her parents had settled status or indefinate leave to remain in the UK when she was born she is British by birth. Is there a cite confirming that Bangladesh can't refuse her application?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 11:59:35 AM
If being the important word. It's by no means certain that this girl has the right to Bangladeshi nationality. If she had the right she wouldn't need to ask for it and they wouldn't be able to refuse her imo.

She has to ask for the passport and shows she is entitled to it... I can't see why she would be refused... If she was then it would be Bangladesh making her stateless
If a child was born in the US and both parents were British... What nationality would the child be.... Think about it
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 12:02:13 PM
We can get tough if we have the laws needed. Getting tough by bending the law is another matter. Hundreds have been allowed back but only 40 have been prosecuted. If the UK want to get tough they need to pass new laws.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1088454/shamima-begum-isis-news-islamic-state-home-office-returning-jihadis

The will of the people isn't expressed in newspaper stories, it's exppressed via the Ballot Box.

Who says the law has been bent
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 12:24:57 PM
She has to ask for the passport and shows she is entitled to it... I can't see why she would be refused... If she was then it would be Bangladesh making her stateless
If a child was born in the US and both parents were British... What nationality would the child be.... Think about it

I'm interested in cites. At the moment I;m seeing opinions.

A child born in the US is a US citizen;

 it does not matter whether the child’s parents were in the United States legally, nor does it matter what citizenships, if any, the parents have, or what other countries the child might also be a citizen of, or have the right to claim citizenship of. Finally, it does not matter whether the parents wish for their child to be a US citizen, and the parents of the child cannot in any way repudiate or otherwise act to renounce or impair their child’s US citizenship.
https://www.quora.com/Will-a-child-born-in-US-be-American-if-the-parents-are-Indian



Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 12:29:18 PM
I'm interested in cites. At the moment I;m seeing opinions.

A child born in the US is a US citizen;

 it does not matter whether the child’s parents were in the United States legally, nor does it matter what citizenships, if any, the parents have, or what other countries the child might also be a citizen of, or have the right to claim citizenship of. Finally, it does not matter whether the parents wish for their child to be a US citizen, and the parents of the child cannot in any way repudiate or otherwise act to renounce or impair their child’s US citizenship.
https://www.quora.com/Will-a-child-born-in-US-be-American-if-the-parents-are-Indian

I'm not giving an opinion on this... I'm stating facts... If a child us born in the US of British parents the child has dual nationality... Fact..
It would not matter if the child never visited the UK or ever had a UK passport.. The child would be entitled to UK citizenship
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 12:36:58 PM
Who says the law has been bent

I do. At this moment the girl and her child are stateless because the UK has removed their citizenship andr they have none. That's against international law.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 12:42:56 PM
I do. At this moment the girl and her child are stateless because the UK has removed their citizenship andr they have none. That's against international law.

She is not stateless...you are posting opinion... The home office does not agree.. She had dual nationality
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 01:00:06 PM
She is not stateless...you are posting opinion... The home office does not agree

Where are your cites?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 01:01:14 PM
Where are your cites?

I've just read a newspaper article .....and I gave a cite yesterday from an immigration  barrister

The Home Office believes that because Begum's mother was born in Bangladesh her daughter is entitled to dual citizenship meaning she would not be left stateless, which is illegal under international law.


Legal experts including Lord Carlile QC, Britain's former reviewer of terrorism legislation, have said that it appears the Home Office does have a genuine case to revoke her British citizenship and keep her in Syria.


/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6724023/Will-ISIS-bride-Shamima-Begum-use-BABY-door-Britain.html
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 01:19:47 PM
I've just read a newspaper article .....and I gave a cite yesterday from an immigration  barrister

The Bandladeshi authorities hace said it's nothing to do with them, so the girl clealy doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship today. Therefore today she's stateless due to the actions taken by the UK authorities.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 01:21:46 PM
The Bandladeshi authorities hace said it's nothing to do with them, so the girl clealy doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship today. Therefore today she's stateless due to the actions taken by the UK authorities.

more opinion from you

cite required........she does not have to hold a passport...she just needs to be eligible..

now you are postingwithout a cite
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 01:23:17 PM
The Bandladeshi authorities hace said it's nothing to do with them, so the girl clealy doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship today. Therefore today she's stateless due to the actions taken by the UK authorities.

Lord Carlile QC believes that Britain does have a strong case to block her from Britain.

He said: 'The Home Office has had a good look at the law and the citizenship of Miss Begum. Under Bangladesh law if her mother is a Bangladesh national or a duel Bangladesh-British national then Miss Begum acquires Bangladesh nationality.

'She doesn't have a Bangladesh passport and apparently she's never been there but that doesn't effect that issue.


from the same article
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 01:26:54 PM
The Bandladeshi authorities hace said it's nothing to do with them, so the girl clealy doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship today. Therefore today she's stateless due to the actions taken by the UK authorities.

if a child is birn in the  US of british parents the child has US citizenship...and also UK citizenship from birth
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 20, 2019, 01:40:14 PM

She intends to wait for her husband until he is released.  And then no doubt he can join his British son in Britain along with his Bangladeshi wife.  Then they can all claim Benefits.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 05:21:35 PM
I think that without the media exposure this action wouldn't have been taken. Other people who are probably more dangerous than this girl have been allowed to return. She is being used as a scapegoat imo.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 20, 2019, 05:24:07 PM
I think that without the media exposure this action wouldn't have been taken. Other people who are probably more dangerous than this girl have been allowed to return. She is being used as a scapegoat imo.

Do these other people have dual nationality?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2019, 06:06:51 PM
I do. At this moment the girl and her child are stateless because the UK has removed their citizenship andr they have none. That's against international law.

Did she or did she not leave Britain of her own volition to affiliate with Islamic State?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 06:10:18 PM
I think that without the media exposure this action wouldn't have been taken. Other people who are probably more dangerous than this girl have been allowed to return. She is being used as a scapegoat imo.
Just because other more dangerous have been allowed to return doesn’t mean she should.  Other more dangerous people should also have their citizenship removed. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2019, 06:22:28 PM
I think that without the media exposure this action wouldn't have been taken. Other people who are probably more dangerous than this girl have been allowed to return. She is being used as a scapegoat imo.

You have absolutely no idea what Shamima Begum might have involved herself with while in Syria and she is hardly likely to volunteer the information.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 06:36:30 PM
I think that without the media exposure this action wouldn't have been taken. Other people who are probably more dangerous than this girl have been allowed to return. She is being used as a scapegoat imo.

all opinion....if she had not claimed rape of the yasidi and the terror atttacks in the UK were justified she may have been let back in.......but she has shown she still supports ISIS
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2019, 06:46:02 PM
all opinion....if she had not claimed rape of the yasidi and the terror atttacks in the UK were justified she may have been let back in.......but she has shown she still supports ISIS
I watched her interview on BBC tonight and I think she has been shaken to the core by the Home Secretary's decision.

It is something she should have considered before affiliating with a group dedicated to the violation of the rights of others but I don't think she did or she would not have presumed the entitlement for herself which she fully expected.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 06:48:00 PM
I watched her interview on BBC tonight and I think she has been shaken to the core by the Home Secretary's decision.

It is something she should have considered before affiliating with a group dedicated to the violation of the rights of others but I don't think she did or she would not have presumed the entitlement for herself which she fully expected.
She expected more sympathy...  @)(++(*
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 06:48:23 PM
The fact remains that she is being singled out for different treatment.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 20, 2019, 06:50:37 PM
The fact remains that she is being singled out for different treatment.

in your opinion
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 06:57:49 PM
The fact remains that she is being singled out for different treatment.
Is she the only British citizen to have her citizenship revoked because of her treasonous acts?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 20, 2019, 07:39:08 PM
I watched her interview on BBC tonight and I think she has been shaken to the core by the Home Secretary's decision.

It is something she should have considered before affiliating with a group dedicated to the violation of the rights of others but I don't think she did or she would not have presumed the entitlement for herself which she fully expected.

An overprivileged spoilt brat who gave no thought to the country that nurtured and educated her, or the opportunities afforded to her family.
She expected to swan off and then swan back when she felt like it.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 20, 2019, 07:45:54 PM

Apparently she is now hoping to go to Holland to wait for her husband to come out of prison.  So she obviously didn't intend to hang around in England for all that long.

Or back to, Bring him to England where they can all three claim Benefits.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 21, 2019, 06:21:01 AM
Bangladesh and the Netherlands have made it quite clear that this girl is not a citizen of theirs. Therefore she is stateless due to the UK Home Secretary's actions.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 21, 2019, 07:57:06 AM
Ach well, it was worth a try.  So much for “taking back control”.  Perhaps we could Brexit from the rest of the world while we’re at it,   @)(++(*
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 21, 2019, 08:05:29 AM
Bangladesh and the Netherlands have made it quite clear that this girl is not a citizen of theirs. Therefore she is stateless due to the UK Home Secretary's actions.

In your opinion
She has no right to citizenship of Holland.... She does have a right to citizenship of Bangladesh through her mother at least... On what grounds are Bangladesh denying this..
Think about it.. If her son is a britsh citizen as his mothervwss British.... Then she has the right to Bangladesh citizenship... If you don't agree point out the flaw in this logic

My opinion... Bangladesh are illegally making her, stateless

Perhaps you could explain why you assume Bangladesh are acting legally and the UK are not
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 21, 2019, 08:29:21 AM
Bangladesh and the Netherlands have made it quite clear that this girl is not a citizen of theirs. Therefore she is stateless due to the UK Home Secretary's actions.

Jus sanguinis   
Edit
Bangladeshi citizenship is provided primarily jus sanguinis, or through bloodline, irrespectively of the place or legitimacy of the birth.[2] Therefore, any person born to a Bangladeshi woman illegitimately outside Bangladeshi soil would still be a Bangladeshi citizen, whereas a person born to two non-nationals in Bangladesh would not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladeshi_nationality_law
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 21, 2019, 08:50:07 AM
 you travel.

If you’re a dual British-Bangladeshi national you’ll be considered by the Bangladesh government to be a Bangladeshi citizen, even if you don’t hold, or have never held, a Bangladeshi passport and were born outside Bangladesh. This may limit the assistance the British government can offer you. For further information on Bangladesh nationality, check with the Bangladesh High Commission.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 21, 2019, 08:54:02 AM
In your opinion
She has no right to citizenship of Holland.... She does have a right to citizenship of Bangladesh through her mother at least... On what grounds are Bangladesh denying this..
Think about it.. If her son is a britsh citizen as his mothervwss British.... Then she has the right to Bangladesh citizenship... If you don't agree point out the flaw in this logic

My opinion... Bangladesh are illegally making her, stateless

Perhaps you could explain why you assume Bangladesh are acting legally and the UK are not

The important question in my opinion is whether the girl's mother has British citizenship or not. If she does, her daughter isn't automatically entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship.

.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 21, 2019, 08:56:06 AM
The important question in my opinion is whether the girl's mother has British citizenship or not. If she does, her daughter isn't automatically entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship.

.

Do you have a cite fir that... You continually post opinion with no cite...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 21, 2019, 09:27:18 AM

Why can't they just leave her where she is?  Her son is a Syrian Citizen, absolutely.  Although I don't know what Syria would want to do with her.

She looks far from starving and ill treated, so what is the problem?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 21, 2019, 09:37:49 AM
The important question in my opinion is whether the girl's mother has British citizenship or not. If she does, her daughter isn't automatically entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship.

.
CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH
Those that are born to at least one Bangladeshi parent acquire citizenship at birth. Those that are born in Bangladesh to parents whose identity and/or nationality are unknown also acquire citizenship by birth, as the child is assumed to be born to Bangladeshi nationals.

Citizenship at birth is also conferred upon Urdu-speaking people of Bangladesh since May 2008.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 21, 2019, 09:57:49 AM

5. Citizenship by descent.- (1) A person born in a country outside Bangladesh on or after
the 25th day of March, 1971, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his either parent
is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth.
6. Dual Citizenship: (1) Except as provided in sub-section (2), if a citizen of Bangladesh
acquires a citizenship of any country other than a country that the Government of
Bangladesh do not recognize, shall retain his citizenship of Bangladesh.

http://www.lawcommissionbangladesh.org/reports/67.pdf
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 21, 2019, 10:03:27 AM
My youngest son was born in Singapore and is a Singapore Citizen.  I had to apply for permission to take him back to England, so now he is also a Nationalised British Subject by right of his mother.  He has every right to reside in Singapore if he wishes.

I don't know if Britain could have refused me.  Probably not.  Unless I was a Terrorist.

The point I am trying to make is that at this stage of the game Begum's son is not a British Subject.  He is Syrian.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 21, 2019, 11:51:56 AM
I think the reality is that just simply no-one wants her and until all the legalities are sorted out between the countries who do not want to allow her entry and residency she will be in a parlous situation for quite some time.

In the interim there is a duty of care owed towards her son ... not least by her.

She has already borne two other children who did not survive, the time and place of whose birth was entirely of her choosing.

So will she decide to keep her newborn as a moral bargaining chip ... or will she put the child first and make the attempt to get him away from from the alleged squalor of the refugee camp where she ended up.

She is not the only one from the sisterhood of the jihadi brides who embarked on their enterprise for love and adventure according to the narrative now desperate to get out.

I think they were as committed to Jihad as any of the male participants in the enterprise and as such present a real threat to homeland security on their return.

Snip
As one scholar put it, the focus on jihadi brides makes the development of counter terrorism measures difficult because “women are often active participants in Islamic State operations rather than just vulnerable, young girls lured with the promise of romance.”

These challenges aside, the scope and size of the phenomenon is also something that has not been covered.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Perhaps the most obvious is that the data utilized in this article does not allow the authors to paint a clear picture of what these women were doing in Syria, other than that they stayed at a guesthouse operated by the Islamic State.
https://ctc.usma.edu/jihadi-brides-examining-female-guesthouse-registry-islamic-states-caliphate/
_______________________________________________________________________________

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 21, 2019, 05:43:25 PM
Is she entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship?
Expert lawyers with experience in Bangladeshi citizenship cases have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum, if born to a Bangladeshi parent, is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality.
If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.
Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make efforts to activate and retain it.
So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship

from the BBC website.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 21, 2019, 05:45:54 PM
My youngest son was born in Singapore and is a Singapore Citizen.  I had to apply for permission to take him back to England, so now he is also a Nationalised British Subject by right of his mother.  He has every right to reside in Singapore if he wishes.

I don't know if Britain could have refused me.  Probably not.  Unless I was a Terrorist.

The point I am trying to make is that at this stage of the game Begum's son is not a British Subject.  He is Syrian.
Lucky him.  I was born in Singapore but as I understand it have no citizenship rights to reside there whatsoever.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 21, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
Lucky him.  I was born in Singapore but as I understand it have no citizenship rights to reside there whatsoever.

It can depend on when and where in Singapore you were born.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 21, 2019, 06:08:48 PM
It can depend on when and where in Singapore you were born.
Was he born in Gleneagles hospital? 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 21, 2019, 06:19:20 PM
Was he born in Gleneagles hospital?

No.  He was born in BMH in 1966.  But while BMH was still considered to be Singapore Island Territory.  BMH became British Territory some time later.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 21, 2019, 06:24:45 PM
No.  He was born in BMH in 1966.  But while BMH was still considered to be Singapore Island Territory.  BMH became British Territory some time later.
I don’t know what BMH means.  I think as I was born before Sept 1963 my parents could have applied for Singaporean citizenship for me but didn’t which is annoying.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 21, 2019, 06:28:18 PM
I don’t know what BMH means.  I think as I was born before Sept 1963 my parents could have applied for Singaporean citizenship for me but didn’t which is annoying.

British Military Hospital.

Yes, it is a pity that your parents didn't apply.  It is probably the best Citizenship in the world.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 21, 2019, 06:34:32 PM
British Military Hospital.

Yes, it is a pity that your parents didn't apply.  It is probably the best Citizenship in the world.

As I understand it the procedure was to register babies wth the local authorities and then with the British High Commission.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 21, 2019, 07:18:01 PM
I don’t know what BMH means.  I think as I was born before Sept 1963 my parents could have applied for Singaporean citizenship for me but didn’t which is annoying.

Singapore was still part of Malaysia in 1963 which probably had something to do with it.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 22, 2019, 10:28:26 AM
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.


Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 22, 2019, 10:42:28 AM
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.

The rule of law says her citizenship has been removed... That can be challenged in court... That's the rule of law..
I haven't heard, anyone here use the word hate....
She defends themanchester bombings... That's pretty awful in my book...

You can have your opinion but it's the law that matters
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 22, 2019, 10:52:26 AM
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.

But she isn't the only one.  She is unrepentant and most certainly wouldn't be wanting sanctuary if ISIS wasn't on it's last legs.

She is one of the last legs, and therefor dangerous.  Personally, I doubt she is mentally stable, or ever was.  Your average 15 year old doesn't run away to play with terrorists who think beheading people is fun.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 22, 2019, 11:50:39 AM
But she isn't the only one.  She is unrepentant and most certainly wouldn't be wanting sanctuary if ISIS wasn't on it's last legs.

She is one of the last legs, and therefor dangerous.  Personally, I doubt she is mentally stable, or ever was.  Your average 15 year old doesn't run away to play with terrorists who think beheading people is fun.

You can't decide what she really thinks by what she says when living in a refugee camp sourounded by IS members and supporters. Given that thpse who tried to excape were killed you also can't say that she didn't want to. I don't see how she can be dangerous and if deradicalised she could be a force for good,

I don't know what her mental state was, but I very nuch doubt if she's thinking straight now after her experiences.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 22, 2019, 11:54:08 AM
The rule of law says her citizenship has been removed... That can be challenged in court... That's the rule of law..
I haven't heard, anyone here use the word hate....
She defends themanchester bombings... That's pretty awful in my book...

You can have your opinion but it's the law that matters

The Home Secretary said it was lawful to renove her citizenship. Others say is wasn't. Just because you agree with him doesn't make either of you right.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 22, 2019, 12:00:30 PM
The Home Secretary said it was lawful to renove her citizenship. Others say is wasn't. Just because you agree with him doesn't make either of you right.

According to UK law it is correct... According to expert opinion it us correct. .according to a previous case involving Bangladesh it's correct...
You are again qoting opinion...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 22, 2019, 12:04:37 PM
The Home Secretary said it was lawful to renove her citizenship. Others say is wasn't. Just because you agree with him doesn't make either of you right.

The Bangladeshi govt say she dies not have citizenship... And the won't let her in... She may not have citizenship at the moment but Case law shows she's entitled  to it... It's up to Bangladesh Ti show in what grounds they intend to refuse it.. And deny her entry... According to UK law as long as she is entitled to claim citizenship of Bangladesh... The UK can remove her citizenship.   Read the guardian... It explains it very well
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Carana on February 22, 2019, 12:35:58 PM
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.



(Some legal ruling or other is expected in March - didn't have time to take much notice.)

I was thinking the same thing about fuelling discontent.

As to the other aspects, I've been listening to both sides. No time to list all the points so far, just a few.

Many of the points made here about kicking her out don't need repeating.

And I'd agree with others that her TV interviews are disturbing.

Another point is that it could take years to build a legal case against whatever crimes she may have committed (or been an accomplice to, or whatever else) if she were allowed back.

On the other side, I'm hearing:

- At 15, she was a victim of grooming.
- A cult phenomenon.
- Populist politics at work.
- A diversion from Brexit
- If a UK Jew were in a similar position, could that person have their UK citizenship cancelled?

Probably a few more to add.

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 22, 2019, 02:11:28 PM
You can't decide what she really thinks by what she says when living in a refugee camp sourounded by IS members and supporters. Given that thpse who tried to excape were killed you also can't say that she didn't want to. I don't see how she can be dangerous and if deradicalised she could be a force for good,

I don't know what her mental state was, but I very nuch doubt if she's thinking straight now after her experiences.

What are all of these people doing in the Refugee Camp?  Who are they?  It's not a prison.  Do they all need deradicalising?  This is getting more scary by the minute.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 22, 2019, 05:45:34 PM
You can't decide what she really thinks by what she says when living in a refugee camp sourounded by IS members and supporters. Given that thpse who tried to excape were killed you also can't say that she didn't want to. I don't see how she can be dangerous and if deradicalised she could be a force for good,

I don't know what her mental state was, but I very nuch doubt if she's thinking straight now after her experiences.
She wants to escape so why haven’t they killed her yet?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 22, 2019, 05:47:51 PM
deleted
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 22, 2019, 05:52:47 PM
I find it hard to understand why some people find it hard to understand the alleged hatred shown to a traitorous enemy of the state but seem to have no problem whatsoever when such alleged hatred is shown every time (for example) the home office announces more funds to investigate a missing child case.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 22, 2019, 06:18:04 PM
What are all of these people doing in the Refugee Camp?  Who are they?  It's not a prison.  Do they all need deradicalising?  This is getting more scary by the minute.

Most of them are ex Caliphate fighters and their families. There are around 30,000 pf them in that camp, including British, Canadian and French citizens.
 https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-isis-bride

If every country does the same as the UK then are the locals expected to look after these people indefinately? That's hardly fair.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 22, 2019, 06:26:15 PM


(Some legal ruling or other is expected in March - didn't have time to take much notice.)

I was thinking the same thing about fuelling discontent.

As to the other aspects, I've been listening to both sides. No time to list all the points so far, just a few.

Many of the points made here about kicking her out don't need repeating.

And I'd agree with others that her TV interviews are disturbing.

Another point is that it could take years to build a legal case against whatever crimes she may have committed (or been an accomplice to, or whatever else) if she were allowed back.

On the other side, I'm hearing:

- At 15, she was a victim of grooming.
- A cult phenomenon.
- Populist politics at work.
- A diversion from Brexit
- If a UK Jew were in a similar position, could that person have their UK citizenship cancelled?

Probably a few more to add.

The message being sent out is that citizenship isn't sonething to feel secure about.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 22, 2019, 06:29:06 PM
The message being sent out is that citizenship isn't sonething to feel secure about.

Precisely... It should not be taken for granted... I think most if us have nothing to worry about ..Abu hamzas son has list his too... Have you been crying fir him as, well

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6731669/amp/Now-Abu-Hamzas-terrorist-son-begs-let-Britain.html

Why are the UK govt so cruel... At least they haven't sawn their heads off live on video
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 22, 2019, 06:35:40 PM
Most of them are ex Caliphate fighters and their families. There are around 30,000 pf them in that camp, including British, Canadian and French citizens.
 https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-isis-bride

If every country does the same as the UK then are the locals expected to look after these people indefinately? That's hardly fair.

That is Syria's problem.  Begum's baby is Syrian.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 22, 2019, 06:44:24 PM
That is Syria's problem.  Begum's baby is Syrian.

Why is it Syria's problem? Did they invite these people in? I think the baby is British, whch I think the Home Secretary acknowledged.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 22, 2019, 06:45:17 PM
Why is it Syria's problem? Did they invite these people in? I think the baby is British, whch I think the Home Secretary acknowledged ut.
Why is the baby not Dutch?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 22, 2019, 06:53:31 PM
Why is it Syria's problem? Did they invite these people in? I think the baby is British, whch I think the Home Secretary acknowledged.

It is Syria's problem because that is where they are.

The baby is Syrian because he was born in Syria.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 22, 2019, 06:56:25 PM
Why is it Syria's problem? Did they invite these people in? I think the baby is British, whch I think the Home Secretary acknowledged.

Why is it the uks problem... The UK didn't tell them to go... It's their own problem... Why is the baby British... He has never been to the uk and doesn't have a uk passport.. Is he British by descent as his mother is Bangladeshi by descent
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 23, 2019, 09:29:25 AM
It is Syria's problem because that is where they are.

The baby is Syrian because he was born in Syria.

Most of those in the refugee camp entered Syria illegally by sneaking across the border with Turkey. I assume that they can be deported as illegal immigrants. Children born in Syria arem't automatically citizens. If their parents have another natiionality at the time of the child's birth it takes their nationality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_nationality_law
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 23, 2019, 09:46:01 AM
Most of those in the refugee camp entered Syria illegally by sneaking across the border with Turkey. I assume that they can be deported as illegal immigrants. Children born in Syria arem't automatically citizens. If their parents have another natiionality at the time of the child's birth it takes their nationality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_nationality_law

as i understand a child has to apply for nationality...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 23, 2019, 09:46:27 AM
Most of those in the refugee camp entered Syria illegally by sneaking across the border with Turkey. I assume that they can be deported as illegal immigrants. Children born in Syria arem't automatically citizens. If their parents have another natiionality at the time of the child's birth it takes their nationality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_nationality_law

Shamima Begum had two nationalities.  Now she has one.  And it isn't British.

You can't have this two ways to which.

If the baby takes his mother's nationality then his mother takes her mother's nationality.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 23, 2019, 09:56:24 AM
In the UK its necessarry to provide evidence when applying for a childs first passport....birth certificate.....i presume she will need to provide some sort of evidence...what evidence can she provide that the child is hers....i think we have to have some proof of this before granting citizenship and granting  passport

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 23, 2019, 10:29:28 AM
Shamima Begum had two nationalities.  Now she has one.  And it isn't British.

You can't have this two ways to which.

If the baby takes his mother's nationality then his mother takes her mother's nationality.

Begum is, at this moment, stateless.

Nationality laws aren't all the same; each country has it's own. Syria's law is quite clear; the child isn't Syrian, he's either British or Dutch.

It has not yet been decided whether Begum can take her mother's nationality.

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 23, 2019, 10:35:27 AM
Begum is, at this moment, stateless.

Nationality laws aren't all the same; each country has it's own. Syria's law is quite clear; the child isn't Syrian, he's either British or Dutch.

It has not yet been decided whether Begum can take her mother's nationality.

the child may be neither british or dutch without further evidence...

she is eligible to apply for a bangladeshi passport....thats why the HO were able to remove her UK citizenship

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 23, 2019, 10:41:31 AM
In the UK its necessarry to provide evidence when applying for a childs first passport....birth certificate.....i presume she will need to provide some sort of evidence...what evidence can she provide that the child is hers....i think we have to have some proof of this before granting citizenship and granting  passport

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything


It isn't necessary to have a British birth certificate to get a passport for a British child.

.You can still apply for a UK passport for your child even if you don’t register the birth in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 23, 2019, 10:42:48 AM
Begum is, at this moment, stateless.

Nationality laws aren't all the same; each country has it's own. Syria's law is quite clear; the child isn't Syrian, he's either British or Dutch.

It has not yet been decided whether Begum can take her mother's nationality.

Bangladeshi citizenship is based primarily on jus sanguinis, through blood.

Citizenship By City-of-birth
CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH
Those that are born to at least one Bangladeshi parent acquire citizenship at birth. Those that are born in Bangladesh to parents whose identity and/or nationality are unknown also acquire citizenship by birth, as the child is assumed to be born to Bangladeshi nationals.

Citizenship at birth is also conferred upon Urdu-speaking people of Bangladesh since May 2008.
https://www.dualcitizenship.com/countries/bangladesh.html


Her legal argument would not appear to be with Britain.  She may not want to go to Bangladesh and Bangladesh may not want her to go there either ... but according to the above ... I don't think either she or Bangladesh have much legal say in the matter.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 23, 2019, 10:44:47 AM
Begum is, at this moment, stateless.

Nationality laws aren't all the same; each country has it's own. Syria's law is quite clear; the child isn't Syrian, he's either British or Dutch.

It has not yet been decided whether Begum can take her mother's nationality.

So you can take your pick, which ever suits you best?

Personally, I don't think that Javid is going to get away with this, and I can't say that I care all that much, but it will all take some time, which will give her and others time to reflect on what they have done.

Don't mock Britain.  Britain has a nasty habit of fighting back, eventually.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 23, 2019, 10:46:49 AM

It isn't necessary to have a British birth certificate to get a passport for a British child.

.You can still apply for a UK passport for your child even if you don’t register the birth in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

does she have any birth certificate....are you suggesting she can simply obtain a british passport for this child with no evidence it is hers..



You must register the birth according to the regulations in Syria.

You can’t currently register the birth with the UK authorities.

The local birth certificate, with a certified translation, should be acceptable for all purposes in the UK. You can apply for registration at any time in the future - check travel advice to find out if consular services have reopened in Syria.


from your link

Overseas British passport applications
You can’t apply for a British passport from Syria.



Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 23, 2019, 10:50:10 AM

It isn't necessary to have a British birth certificate to get a passport for a British child.

.You can still apply for a UK passport for your child even if you don’t register the birth in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

My son has a Singapore Birth Certificate.  He was granted entry to UK by right of his mother.  But he is only a Naturalised  UK Citizen, so not the whole shilling, and that would be the first to be denied to him if he misbehaved.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 24, 2019, 08:08:53 AM
It is now known her father is Bangladeshi... And lives in Bangladesh... he also supports the home office decision... I cannot see how she does not have a right to Bangladeshi citizenship....
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 24, 2019, 09:10:40 AM
It is now known her father is Bangladeshi... And lives in Bangladesh... he also supports the home office decision... I cannot see how she does not have a right to Bangladeshi citizenship....

Yes, that was pretty damning on all counts.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 24, 2019, 01:07:28 PM
Most of those in the refugee camp entered Syria illegally by sneaking across the border with Turkey. I assume that they can be deported as illegal immigrants. Children born in Syria arem't automatically citizens. If their parents have another natiionality at the time of the child's birth it takes their nationality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_nationality_law

They are in a refugee camp becuase their killing and slaughtering of the innocents were challenged and they lost!

That ISIS bride. sounds so romantic. lets us cller what she is a terrorist- She knew she was 'invading' with aggressive behavior another country to cause death and distruction of that countries freedoms and human rights. they only seem to know their own, funny that!

This is a snippet from a written testament from someone I know-jouralist- Who was given it by a 19 year old who was 11 at the time. Found starved and almost dead.

Snip-
“ I was with my brother and two sisters at the market, a young boy  around age 5/6 shouted something and pointed at us. The two women ISIS WIVES ran towards us shouting in Arabic/English (I didn’t know it was English at the time)” whore, whore!  trying to get my son to sin”. They grabbed me. All I recall is this child beating me with a belt across my face-  After a severe beating, my family was told I brought them shame as my scarf fell to the side of my face . My brother was taken away and never seen since that day. As punishment my sisters and I were taken as sex slaves. I never saw them again”


And then there is this...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6738131/SAS-troops-severed-heads-50-Yazidi-sex-slaves-close-barbaric-ISIS.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6738163/Pregnant-just-10-girl-trapped-sex-slave-ISIS-capital.html


I do pride my self in having compassion and humanity for those who cannot defend themselves .especially children.  That terrorist brought crimes against humanity to that country and ENJOYED it  , she still does!

There is no place for her here. she would be a heroine for these b@stards who live among us.

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 03:16:04 PM
They are in a refugee camp becuase their killing and slaughtering of the innocents were challenged and they lost!

That ISIS bride. sounds so romantic. lets us cller what she is a terrorist- She knew she was 'invading' with aggressive behavior another country to cause death and distruction of that countries freedoms and human rights. they only seem to know their own, funny that!

This is a snippet from a written testament from someone I know-jouralist- Who was given it by a 19 year old who was 11 at the time. Found starved and almost dead.

Snip-
“ I was with my brother and two sisters at the market, a young boy  around age 5/6 shouted something and pointed at us. The two women ISIS WIVES ran towards us shouting in Arabic/English (I didn’t know it was English at the time)” whore, whore!  trying to get my son to sin”. They grabbed me. All I recall is this child beating me with a belt across my face-  After a severe beating, my family was told I brought them shame as my scarf fell to the side of my face . My brother was taken away and never seen since that day. As punishment my sisters and I were taken as sex slaves. I never saw them again”


And then there is this...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6738131/SAS-troops-severed-heads-50-Yazidi-sex-slaves-close-barbaric-ISIS.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6738163/Pregnant-just-10-girl-trapped-sex-slave-ISIS-capital.html


I do pride my self in having compassion and humanity for those who cannot defend themselves .especially children.  That terrorist brought crimes against humanity to that country and ENJOYED it  , she still does!

There is no place for her here. she would be a heroine for these b@stards who live among us.

Whatever is done should be done using the law, however. If the UK treats international law with contempt others will do the same.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 24, 2019, 03:28:50 PM
Whatever is done should be done using the law, however. If the UK treats international law with contempt others will do the same.
......
the law i have seen says that if a person is eligible for citizenship of another country then citizenship can be removed....the UK have complied with this law...could you quote the law you think they broke..this is uk law...

But that does not prevent the Secretary of State from making an order under subsection (2) to deprive a person of a citizenship status if—
(a)the citizenship status results from the person's naturalisation,
(b)the Secretary of State is satisfied that the deprivation is conducive to the public good because the person, while having that citizenship status, has conducted him or herself in a manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, any of the Islands, or any British overseas territory, and
(c)the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory.]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/40
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 08:04:30 PM
......
the law i have seen says that if a person is eligible for citizenship of another country then citizenship can be removed....the UK have complied with this law...could you quote the law you think they broke..this is uk law...

But that does not prevent the Secretary of State from making an order under subsection (2) to deprive a person of a citizenship status if—
(a)the citizenship status results from the person's naturalisation,
(b)the Secretary of State is satisfied that the deprivation is conducive to the public good because the person, while having that citizenship status, has conducted him or herself in a manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, any of the Islands, or any British overseas territory, and
(c)the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory.]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/40

International Law, which is slightly different. A person must already possess another citizenship, not 'be able to become' a citizen in the future.
https://www.unhcr.org/un-conventions-on-statelessness.html
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 24, 2019, 08:18:24 PM
Abu Hamza’s son had his British citizen revoked in 2017 when he went off to Syria to fight.  I suppose we should all be righteously indignant about that as well?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 12:37:02 AM
International Law, which is slightly different. A person must already possess another citizenship, not 'be able to become' a citizen in the future.
https://www.unhcr.org/un-conventions-on-statelessness.html

Can you provide a cite from your link to support your statement.... I don't think you can.. If you can't your post is merely your opinion stated as, fact
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 09:06:05 AM
International Law, which is slightly different. A person must already possess another citizenship, not 'be able to become' a citizen in the future.
https://www.unhcr.org/un-conventions-on-statelessness.html

so no cite...just your opinion.

The UK govt have decided in their opinion she is entitled to Bangaldeshi citizenship and is therefore not stateless.....all her solicitor needs to do is show this is incorrect....why has he not done that...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 25, 2019, 09:29:28 AM
Can you provide a cite from your link to support your statement.... I don't think you can.. If you can't your post is merely your opinion stated as, fact

The thing is, it's various laws which make the point. There's a very good article which explains it all, including the human rights being affected;

Building on article 15 of the UDHR's assurance of the right to be free from arbitrary deprivation of nationality, article 8(1) of the 1961 Statelessness Reduction Convention articulates a duty of states not to create statelessness through the deprivation of nationality, stating that a “Contracting State shall not deprive a person of his nationality if such deprivation would render him stateless”
https://academic.oup.com/rsq/article/27/3/93/1515115

When the Home Secretary took away her citizenship he made her stateless.




Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 09:42:12 AM
The thing is, it's various laws which make the point. There's a very good article which explains it all, including the human rights being affected;

Building on article 15 of the UDHR's assurance of the right to be free from arbitrary deprivation of nationality, article 8(1) of the 1961 Statelessness Reduction Convention articulates a duty of states not to create statelessness through the deprivation of nationality, stating that a “Contracting State shall not deprive a person of his nationality if such deprivation would render him stateless”
https://academic.oup.com/rsq/article/27/3/93/1515115

When the Home Secretary took away her citizenship he made her stateless.

in your opinion...but she is not stateless...she is entitled to bangladeshi citizenship by birth
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 25, 2019, 09:58:28 AM
in your opinion...but she is not stateless...she is entitled to bangladeshi citizenship by birth

In the opinion of the Home Secretary she was entitled to claim Bngladeshi citixenship. No-one needs to claim something they already possess. Therefore Bangladeshu citizenship was not in her possession when he took away her British citizenship. Therefore he made her stateless.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 10:33:11 AM
In the opinion of the Home Secretary she was entitled to claim Bngladeshi citixenship. No-one needs to claim something they already possess. Therefore Bangladeshu citizenship was not in her possession when he took away her British citizenship. Therefore he made her stateless.

In your opinion... There are millions of UK residents who do not have a passport... Are they stateless. ...no but they need to apply for a passport if they wish
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 10:36:10 AM
In the opinion of the Home Secretary she was entitled to claim Bngladeshi citixenship. No-one needs to claim something they already possess. Therefore Bangladeshu citizenship was not in her possession when he took away her British citizenship. Therefore he made her stateless.

 Do you have a cite from the home secretary where he says she can claim citizenship... She us entitled to it.. By law
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 25, 2019, 10:38:49 AM

Her Father lives in Bangladesh.  What price his citizenship?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 26, 2019, 01:22:08 PM
Whatever is done should be done using the law, however. If the UK treats international law with contempt others will do the same.


I don't think it is that easy to convict these ISIS wives due to the fact they have had their whole body covered!!!! So in that situation we can take from that they want to come back here are bring their version of a sect which they claim is Islam, to engage in terrorist activity. We can shove two fingers at anyone who says we must...

 I do love the idea that WE must obey laws where these low life trash can cry oh what about the law... they get to pick and choose which laws they break and which ones we have to obey?
 heehee

Anyway, the thing is She made herself and her baby 'refugees' she went as a terrorist and ended up a refugee Karama!


I am sure her and her son would feel more at home in Saudi Arabia- all those limbs being chopped off and heads flying off in the market quare, women being stoned  oh the joys! It wil be a home from home for her and her baby.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 26, 2019, 06:57:34 PM

I don't think it is that easy to convict these ISIS wives due to the fact they have had their whole body covered!!!! So in that situation we can take from that they want to come back here are bring their version of a sect which they claim is Islam, to engage in terrorist activity. We can shove two fingers at anyone who says we must...

 I do love the idea that WE must obey laws where these low life trash can cry oh what about the law... they get to pick and choose which laws they break and which ones we have to obey?
 heehee

Anyway, the thing is She made herself and her baby 'refugees' she went as a terrorist and ended up a refugee Karama!


I am sure her and her son would feel more at home in Saudi Arabia- all those limbs being chopped off and heads flying off in the market quare, women being stoned  oh the joys! It wil be a home from home for her and her baby.

I'm not supporting the IS brides, just saying that to claim the moral high ground we need to do things legally.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 26, 2019, 07:09:28 PM
I'm not supporting the IS brides, just saying that to claim the moral high ground we need to do things legally.
We have the moral high ground over individuals who support acts of barbarity and terrorism, don’t worry.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 26, 2019, 08:04:40 PM
I'm not supporting the IS brides, just saying that to claim the moral high ground we need to do things legally.
It has been done legally... She can challenge it in court if she wants.... More than the poor victims who were burnt alive by the laws she supported were able to do
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2019, 07:50:29 AM
We have the moral high ground over individuals who support acts of barbarity and terrorism, don’t worry.

Yes, of course we do. We don't support barbaric regimes like Saudi Arabia, do we?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 27, 2019, 08:05:33 AM
Yes, of course we do. We don't support barbaric regimes like Saudi Arabia, do we?

Or Israel... Or the PJ.... Depends where the line us drawn...
I haven't heard either if the above burning people alive
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 27, 2019, 08:29:42 AM
Yes, of course we do. We don't support barbaric regimes like Saudi Arabia, do we?
Is Saudi Arabia internationally recognised as a terrorist regime? 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2019, 10:03:18 AM
Is Saudi Arabia internationally recognised as a terrorist regime?

Is it a country whivh tramples on the human rights of it's people? Is it a country which provided a large proprtion of IS fighters? Are you proud that the UK supports such a barbaric regime? Do we do it because we occupy the moral high ground or because we want their oil?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 27, 2019, 02:08:10 PM
Is it a country whivh tramples on the human rights of it's people? Is it a country which provided a large proprtion of IS fighters? Are you proud that the UK supports such a barbaric regime? Do we do it because we occupy the moral high ground or because we want their oil?
One minute you’re saying we can only occupy the moral high ground if we act within the law and now you’re saying even if act within the law we cannot claim the moral high ground because we buy oil from Saudi Arabia, oh well...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2019, 02:15:04 PM
One minute you’re saying we can only occupy the moral high ground if we act within the law and now you’re saying even if act within the law we cannot claim the moral high ground because we buy oil from Saudi Arabia, oh well...

There's more than one path leading to the moral high ground.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 27, 2019, 09:03:39 PM
There's more than one path leading to the moral high ground.
Gosh how profound.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2019, 07:55:48 AM
There's more than one path leading to the moral high ground.

And we all think we are on it.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 28, 2019, 08:06:40 AM
And we all think we are on it.

Anyone who thinks the UK occupies it is mistaken in my opinion.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2019, 08:16:02 AM
Anyone who thinks the UK occupies it is mistaken in my opinion.

No one really knows what the moral high ground is.  Tis the Sin of Pride.  Thank you God for making me a better person.

I only know that I struggle with what is right and what is wrong.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 28, 2019, 08:23:19 AM
Anyone who thinks the UK occupies it is mistaken in my opinion.
Which countries in the world occupy the moral high ground in your view?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2019, 09:11:44 AM
Anyone who thinks the UK occupies it is mistaken in my opinion.

morals are a matter of opinion so your argument is facile....im sure isis consider they occupy the moral high ground
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2019, 09:14:13 AM
morals are a matter of opinion so your argument is facile....im sure isis consider they occupy the moral high ground

Oh they do.  And so does she.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2019, 09:46:14 AM
morals are a matter of opinion so your argument is facile....im sure isis consider they occupy the moral high ground

They believe it to the extent that they are prepared to commit atrocities, to kill and commit genocide to do so and like the Nazis of yesteryear filmed and documented what they did; so proud were they of the moral high ground they occupied they used clips of horrible deaths on the internet (else how would we know about men locked in cages and set alight ~ being thrown from high buildings ~ or beheaded for the edification of baying crowds) to encourage worldwide recruitment to their cause.

The demographic weapon of the jihadi brides watched all that and decided they wanted to cross continents to play out their part in it ... no one forced them to become radicalised ... they watched and approved the videos which would have turned the stomachs of most normal individuals.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2019, 10:28:39 AM
They believe it to the extent that they are prepared to commit atrocities, to kill and commit genocide to do so and like the Nazis of yesteryear filmed and documented what they did; so proud were they of the moral high ground they occupied they used clips of horrible deaths on the internet (else how would we know about men locked in cages and set alight ~ being thrown from high buildings ~ or beheaded for the edification of baying crowds) to encourage worldwide recruitment to their cause.

The demographic weapon of the jihadi brides watched all that and decided they wanted to cross continents to play out their part in it ... no one forced them to become radicalised ... they watched and approved the videos which would have turned the stomachs of most normal individuals.

And all they got in the end was a bunch Psychopaths, which is probably where it all began.

And you can't cure that.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 28, 2019, 11:31:09 AM
morals are a matter of opinion so your argument is facile....im sure isis consider they occupy the moral high ground

So in your opinion there is no objective morality. When we say that stoning womem to death for committing adultery is wrong we are simply expressing an opinion which is no more valid than the opinions of those who think it's a right and proper punishment.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2019, 12:19:28 PM
So in your opinion there is no objective morality. When we say that stoning womem to death for committing adultery is wrong we are simply expressing an opinion which is no more valid than the opinions of those who think it's a right and proper punishment.

It's wrong in our opinion but not in theirs.... It is not wrong in theirs because it is the will of their God.... Who has told them to do these things..
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2019, 12:22:45 PM
So in your opinion there is no objective morality. When we say that stoning womem to death for committing adultery is wrong we are simply expressing an opinion which is no more valid than the opinions of those who think it's a right and proper punishment.
Snip
In one voice in May 2015, she described a stoning as 'cool'.

She said: 'Guess what today there's going to be a stoning of a woman. Me and my husband are going to go and see it inshallah. So cool man.'   Sumaiyyah Wakil an ISIS bride
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6713865/Family-girl-fled-ISIS-bride-16-beg-return-Britain-child.html


Apparently the people you think should be allowed entry into the country have absolutely no qualms about the barbaric practice of public stoning.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 28, 2019, 01:45:29 PM
It's wrong in our opinion but not in theirs.... It is not wrong in theirs because it is the will of their God.... Who has told them to do these things..

On what grounds do we claim that our opinion is the correct one?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
On what grounds do we claim that our opinion is the correct one?

We can't to a certain extent... Ours is a secular opinion.. Christians tell us we can't have any morals if we don't follow the bible... That we can't invent our own morals without divine guidance.. Isis claims divine guidelines....
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2019, 05:01:42 PM
On what grounds do we claim that our opinion is the correct one?

Do we need to?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 28, 2019, 05:32:00 PM
We can't to a certain extent... Ours is a secular opinion.. Christians tell us we can't have any morals if we don't follow the bible... That we can't invent our own morals without divine guidance.. Isis claims divine guidelines....

So whatever people think and do no-one is qualified to criticise them on moral grounds. There's no right or wrong, good or bad, just opinions?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2019, 05:37:34 PM
So whatever people think and do no-one is qualified to criticise them on moral grounds. There's no right or wrong, good or bad, just opinions?

We can criticise... We can disagree... Is homosexuality moral.. Is working in the Sabbath... Is sex before marriage..
There is no real answer and therefore morals are subjective... Di you believe you have a list if what's right and wrong... And anyone who disagrees with you is wrong
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: John on February 28, 2019, 05:40:50 PM
It's wrong in our opinion but not in theirs.... It is not wrong in theirs because it is the will of their God.... Who has told them to do these things..

They're nutters, pure and simple...  8(8-))

These people would take over the world if they could and ultimately destroy humanity as we know it.  They have weaselled their way into just about every western society and are spreading their poison wherever they go.  They want to destroy Christianity in all its forms.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on February 28, 2019, 06:18:00 PM
They're nutters, pure and simple...  8(8-))

These people would take over the world if they could and ultimately destroy humanity as we know it.  They have weaselled their way into just about every western society and are spreading their poison wherever they go.  They want to destroy Christianity in all its forms.

A group of Muslim men worked for the same company as me in around 2002. They had a 'leader' who seemed to be seen as the most devout. He negotiated the use of a room for daily prayers, never went on any nights out or bought a raffle ticket. His screen saver on his computer was a globe of the world with arrows showing how Islam was spreading across it. A clear statement of intent.

We used shared printers and I often came upon Islamic tracts which this group were researching and printing out in working hours. I brought it to the attention of my manager but nothing was done about it.

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Erngath on February 28, 2019, 09:08:19 PM
A group of Muslim men worked for the same company as me in around 2002. They had a 'leader' who seemed to be seen as the most devout. He negotiated the use of a room for daily prayers, never went on any nights out or bought a raffle ticket. His screen saver on his computer was a globe of the world with arrows showing how Islam was spreading across it. A clear statement of intent.

We used shared printers and I often came upon Islamic tracts which this group were researching and printing out in working hours. I brought it to the attention of my manager but nothing was done about it.

My husband worked for our local authority.
There was a room set aside for Muslim workers to use for their daily prayers.
However my husband was not allowed to have any time off to attend mass on a Holy Day of Obligation which amounted to less than one hour four times a year.

Did seem unfair.


Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2019, 06:44:21 AM
My husband worked for our local authority.
There was a room set aside for Muslim workers to use for their daily prayers.
However my husband was not allowed to have any time off to attend mass on a Holy Day of Obligation which amounted to less than one hour four times a year.

Did seem unfair.

I didn't mind the prayer room as such, it was using work time and equipment for their own ends which I saw as stealing from the employer.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 01, 2019, 07:10:21 AM
I didn't mind the prayer room as such, it was using work time and equipment for their own ends which I saw as stealing from the employer.

Yuman Rites.  But only for some.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2019, 07:47:41 AM
Yuman Rites.  But only for some.

Yes; there was the fuss about the woman forbidden to wear a crusifix at work while others were using religion to justify breaking rules. Girls had to wear skirts at school and I think that rule changed due to Muslim girls wanting to cover themselves with trousers. Sikhs are excused crash helmets on motor bikes and are allowed to carry knives.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 01, 2019, 05:21:33 PM
Yes; there was the fuss about the woman forbidden to wear a crusifix at work while others were using religion to justify breaking rules. Girls had to wear skirts at school and I think that rule changed due to Muslim girls wanting to cover themselves with trousers. Sikhs are excused crash helmets on motor bikes and are allowed to carry knives.

I see Bin Ladin's son has been stripped of his Saudi citizenship.... Are you concerned he may become stateless
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 01, 2019, 05:55:19 PM
I see Bin Ladin's son has been stripped of his Saudi citizenship.... Are you concerned he may become stateless
I’m sure there’s a nice cosy cave with his name on it in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2019, 06:27:59 PM
I see Bin Ladin's son has been stripped of his Saudi citizenship.... Are you concerned he may become stateless

If it has been done in accordance with international ans Saudi national law I have no reason to opine.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 08, 2019, 02:15:17 PM
I’m sure there’s a nice cosy cave with his name on it in Afghanistan.


If so the Afghans will probably want to find him and kill him....They got rid of most of the Taliban they only exist in some pockets of the country. Many hate Pakistan for they support they give to these  murderers, killers and slaughterers of the innocents.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 08, 2019, 02:22:33 PM
I didn't mind the prayer room as such, it was using work time and equipment for their own ends which I saw as stealing from the employer.


You would cry out loud at what goes on in the NHS to accommodate such superstitions..

The good news is: it used to be 'fathers' who had to sign a childs passports and claim rights. all changed now it is the Mothers.  (This means Asian children born here cannot be sold or forced ointo a marriage by dear daddy)

Parents are now going to be proscecuted for forcing FGM of UK born children. not long ago nurses where disciplined for even mentioning it.- them damn whistleblowers.

Slowely but surely we are regaining our way of life to be forced upon the minority and not the other way round.


SNP want ISIS brides to be welcomed back... hopefully not to train an disabled child to walk into their parliament with a suicide vest.. Oh they wouldn't dare....!
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 08, 2019, 08:08:14 PM
Predictably and possibly preventably Shameena Begum's third child has died.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 08, 2019, 08:21:30 PM
Predictably and possibly preventably Shameena Begum's third child has died.

Not according to other reports.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 08, 2019, 10:38:01 PM
Predictably and possibly preventably Shameena Begum's third child has died.

Life is so cheap to these people.  they use children as human shields and train them, especially if they have a disability or mental impairment, to become vest wearers. The actual depth of their evilness cannot be fathomed by decent thinking humans.

Who could really go live in a place where your child walks to school and witneses people being thrashed, beaten, tortured for minor mistameanours, how about hands,feet  having been removed from a body-laying at the side of the road or heads being stuck on walls... Nice mother- she wasn't  if we have to bring God into this then peerhaps he made a good descision on this case!

What will she do now ? she hasn't got a 'baby' for the looney left to scream and shout about   a baby. aww and ahh and aww a baby.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 08, 2019, 10:58:57 PM
Not according to other reports.

News just in...

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/militia-confirmed-shamima-begums-baby-2626474


The poor child had died.


and it is all your fault.
 and mine
and  the Home Secretary
 and everyone who didn't fall for her cr@p.

 The child was in danger it should have been removed from her and taken care of.

It is interesting she metiones that the other ISIS brides would  not approve of her 'leaving'-  makes a case for those 'other' hard core 'Brides' to stay the flock away.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 08, 2019, 11:00:13 PM

Sadly, she has no one to blame but herself.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 08:53:19 AM
IS were and are people who follow a barbaric version of Islan. They have shown no mercy for anyone including their women and children; they have exposed them to terrible danger and lack of care, They tempted silly young girls to join them.

No one knows why these gitls decided that leaving their lives and fanilies to go into danger was a good idea because we don't know how they were persuaded. In my opinion they were too young to make such a life-changing decision and are therefore victims.

Had this girl been an adult male who went there to fight and kill then stripping him of his citizenship would have been understandable. Choosing to make an exanple of a heavily pregnant teenager who, in my opinion, could have been deradicalised was an error of judgement in my opinion. We showed no more mercy and concern for the vulnerable than IS.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 09:10:32 AM

Even had she been allowed to return to UK this could not have been accomplished before that poor baby died.  She hasn't even got a British Passport and is in no position to apply for one as I doubt she can prove who she is.  And no one is going to Syria to rescue her, not should they.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2019, 09:24:41 AM
IS were and are people who follow a barbaric version of Islan. They have shown no mercy for anyone including their women and children; they have exposed them to terrible danger and lack of care, They tempted silly young girls to join them.

No one knows why these gitls decided that leaving their lives and fanilies to go into danger was a good idea because we don't know how they were persuaded. In my opinion they were too young to make such a life-changing decision and are therefore victims.

Had this girl been an adult male who went there to fight and kill then stripping him of his citizenship would have been understandable. Choosing to make an exanple of a heavily pregnant teenager who, in my opinion, could have been deradicalised was an error of judgement in my opinion. We showed no more mercy and concern for the vulnerable than IS.
Bit sexist the day after after International Women's Day don't you think?  There isn't a woman amongst these women who was not as capable and as committed to Jihad as any jihadi warrior who had made his way into Syria and who had made her own choices in the matter by doing likewise.  It is on record that some of these these women aided and abetted atrocities which will be next to impossible to prove because of (a) the chaos and destruction they brought to the country they chose as their Caliphate, (b) the difficulty of finding witnesses who are now either dead or dispersed and (c) one black robed and gloved jihadi looks very much like any one of a hundred others.
Shamima Begum looked upon attending a public beheading as a social event. My opinion is that the vulnerable are those who had no choice in the matter of being brutalised by and massacred.  Shamima Begum and her like do not come into that category ... they are the perpetrators.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on March 09, 2019, 09:29:30 AM
IS were and are people who follow a barbaric version of Islan. They have shown no mercy for anyone including their women and children; they have exposed them to terrible danger and lack of care, They tempted silly young girls to join them.

No one knows why these gitls decided that leaving their lives and fanilies to go into danger was a good idea because we don't know how they were persuaded. In my opinion they were too young to make such a life-changing decision and are therefore victims.

Had this girl been an adult male who went there to fight and kill then stripping him of his citizenship would have been understandable. Choosing to make an exanple of a heavily pregnant teenager who, in my opinion, could have been deradicalised was an error of judgement in my opinion. We showed no more mercy and concern for the vulnerable than IS.

Blimey G-Unit for once I tend to agree with you!

Was this young girl 1 of 3 all of whom were captured on cctv at the airport departing UK for onward flight to Turkey?  If so I remember thinking they all looked so Western in skinny jeans with fashionable shoes and bags now she has returned wearing a burka  8(8-))

I would have thought the way forward would be an interview with the security services to gather all possible intelligence and then place her under some sort of house arrest with her family who I believe are moderate Muslims? 

At some stage she might wish to assist the UK authorities by going public and warning off other would be ISIS brides from making the same mistakes.

I don't think she has helped her cause though as she very recently seemed to still be loosely supporting ISIS?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 09:31:07 AM
How did she pay her air fares, I would like to know.  She wasn't short of stealing her sister's passport, so did she steal money as well?
And then got herself half way around the World,  Devious to say the least.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2019, 09:33:15 AM
Even had she been allowed to return to UK this could not have been accomplished before that poor baby died.  She hasn't even got a British Passport and is in no position to apply for one as I doubt she can prove who she is.  And no one is going to Syria to rescue her, not should they.

She lost two other children and therefore knew that her child was at high risk even before he was born. I doubt she had access to appropriate ante and post natal care and the child was reported to be sick from birth.  Yet she made absolutely no effort to have the child evacuated to a safe zone where he could receive medical treatment.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 09:55:11 AM
Blimey G-Unit for once I tend to agree with you!

Was this young girl 1 of 3 all of whom were captured on cctv at the airport departing UK for onward flight to Turkey?  If so I remember thinking they all looked so Western in skinny jeans with fashionable shoes and bags now she has returned wearing a burka  8(8-))

I would have thought the way forward would be an interview with the security services to gather all possible intelligence and then place her under some sort of house arrest with her family who I believe are moderate Muslims? 

At some stage she might wish to assist the UK authorities by going public and warning off other would be ISIS brides from making the same mistakes.

I don't think she has helped her cause though as she very recently seemed to still be loosely supporting ISIS?

She hasn't done herself any favours at all, but she must have been aware that she was surrounded by committed IS people. Criticising them wouldn't have been a smart move imo.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 10:01:55 AM
Bit sexist the day after after International Women's Day don't you think?  There isn't a woman amongst these women who was not as capable and as committed to Jihad as any jihadi warrior who had made his way into Syria and who had made her own choices in the matter by doing likewise.  It is on record that some of these these women aided and abetted atrocities which will be next to impossible to prove because of (a) the chaos and destruction they brought to the country they chose as their Caliphate, (b) the difficulty of finding witnesses who are now either dead or dispersed and (c) one black robed and gloved jihadi looks very much like any one of a hundred others.
Shamima Begum looked upon attending a public beheading as a social event. My opinion is that the vulnerable are those who had no choice in the matter of being brutalised by and massacred.  Shamima Begum and her like do not come into that category ... they are the perpetrators.

It has nothing to do with being sexist. She was a silly impressionable young girl, but O expect there were silly impressionable young boys who were also targetted and who can be seen as victims.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2019, 10:13:36 AM
It has nothing to do with being sexist. She was a silly impressionable young girl, but O expect there were silly impressionable young boys who were also targetted and who can be seen as victims.
Two quite different viewpoints.

Your sympathies lie with the perpetrators.

My sympathies lie very much with the victims and the survivors of the jihadi regime which for a time took over their country and imposed their perverted rule.
Maybe it is empathy?  I sure would not like these jihadi brides ... who made their own choices ... to do to me and mine what they did to people they considered lesser mortals ... if they thought of them as people at all.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Angelo222 on March 09, 2019, 10:19:55 AM
Predictably and possibly preventably Shameena Begum's third child has died.

There is no proof she even had a child, we never saw it and she never held it once on camera.  What was that all about?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Angelo222 on March 09, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
How did she pay her air fares, I would like to know.  She wasn't short of stealing her sister's passport, so did she steal money as well?
And then got herself half way around the World,  Devious to say the least.

Absolutely, not the sort of thing you do without planning it all beforehand.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 02:06:25 PM
IS were and are people who follow a barbaric version of Islan. They have shown no mercy for anyone including their women and children; they have exposed them to terrible danger and lack of care, They tempted silly young girls to join them.

No one knows why these gitls decided that leaving their lives and fanilies to go into danger was a good idea because we don't know how they were persuaded. In my opinion they were too young to make such a life-changing decision and are therefore victims.

Had this girl been an adult male who went there to fight and kill then stripping him of his citizenship would have been understandable. Choosing to make an exanple of a heavily pregnant teenager who, in my opinion, could have been deradicalised was an error of judgement in my opinion. We showed no more mercy and concern for the vulnerable than IS.

in red...what an absoluteley ridiculous thing to say....equating removing her passport to the sort of things IS did....burning poeple alive...drowning people....rape of the Yazidi young women on a massive scale and murder of the older women and men.....do you expect to be taken seriously after posting such tripe...imo of course
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 02:39:16 PM
Two quite different viewpoints.

Your sympathies lie with the perpetrators.

My sympathies lie very much with the victims and the survivors of the jihadi regime which for a time took over their country and imposed their perverted rule.
Maybe it is empathy?  I sure would not like these jihadi brides ... who made their own choices ... to do to me and mine what they did to people they considered lesser mortals ... if they thought of them as people at all.

It's not about sympathy or empathy. It's about trying to understand why people do what they do because that's the only way to stop them. Whether it's people going to join IS or young lads stabbing each other punishment doesn't work. If it did we would have no crime.

What does work is rehabilitation. Understanding why people do things and helping them to change may be a permanent solution. Punishment is temporary and solves nothing.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/24/special-prison-unit-where-rehabilitation-rules-hmp-new-hall
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 02:51:06 PM
It's not about sympathy or empathy. It's about trying to understand why people do what they do because that's the only way to stop them. Whether it's people going to join IS or young lads stabbing each other punishment doesn't work. If it did we would have no crime.

What does work is rehabilitation. Understanding why people do things and helping them to change may be a permanent solution. Punishment is temporary and solves nothing.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/24/special-prison-unit-where-rehabilitation-rules-hmp-new-hall

what absolute claptrap...do you think you can rehabilitate the muderers of lee Rigby...do you really beleive you can reabilitate those who beleive there is a special place in heaven for them and this world is not important...do you raelly believe you can persuade someone who can earn £!000 a day  dealing drugs to get a 9 to 5 job...you really are totally out of touch ..imo

It might be a good idea to read the link you've posted so you understand  what it, refers to
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 04:18:16 PM

These were young girls with a twisted mind set, probably already emotionally damaged, by God knows what.  Ask their parents, who I believe are ultimately responsible.  No child grows up without input from the family home, who were quite possibly keeping the flag flying.  Blame some silly girl.  Nothing to do with me.  The Caliphate will win.  And then we can all praise Allah.

Whoops, got that wrong.  Nothing to do with me.  Send my silly daughter back home, and then we can all be grateful to Britain, who let's face it, are a soft touch.

Shamima Begum did not get out of Britain without some help from her family, even if she stole it.

I am sad that she lost three children, who would appear to have been at risk from their mother, who at her age should not have been having children in the first place.  Probably from under developed lungs.  And let's face it, three children in four years is not a good idea.  Certainly not starting at the age of fifteen.

But I am tired of this now.  I don't really care what Britain does with her.  But I would be having her family nailed to the cross.  Who are these people?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 04:33:38 PM
These were young girls with a twisted mind set, probably already emotionally damaged, by God knows what.  Ask their parents, who I believe are ultimately responsible.  No child grows up without input from the family home, who were quite possibly keeping the flag flying.  Blame some silly girl.  Nothing to do with me.  The Caliphate will win.  And then we can all praise Allah.

Whoops, got that wrong.  Nothing to do with me.  Send my silly daughter back home, and then we can all be grateful to Britain, who let's face it, are a soft touch.

Shamima Begum did not get out of Britain without some help from her family, even if she stole it.

I am sad that she lost three children, who would appear to have been at risk from their mother, who at her age should not have been having children in the first place.  Probably from under developed lungs.  And let's face it, three children in four years is not a good idea.  Certainly not starting at the age of fifteen.

But I am tired of this now.  I don't really care what Britain does with her.  But I would be having her family nailed to the cross.  Who are these people?

She has been indocrinated since birth by her family... Richard Dawkins calls this a form of child abuse... Perhaps he's right
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 09, 2019, 05:31:15 PM
in red...what an absoluteley ridiculous thing to say....equating removing her passport to the sort of things IS did....burning poeple alive...drowning people....rape of the Yazidi young women on a massive scale and murder of the older women and men.....do you expect to be taken seriously after posting such tripe...imo of course
Exactly what I was going to say. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 06:45:27 PM
She has been indocrinated since birth by her family... Richard Dawkins calls this a form of child abuse... Perhaps he's right

Not even perhaps.  How could they have done this to her, and then allowed the blame to fall on her alone?  She didn't just decide to bog off to Syria without any help at all.  She stole her sister's passport.  Hopefully her sister doesn't have a passport anymore either.  I would seriously want to know if her sister can now apply for another passport.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 06:49:04 PM
These were young girls with a twisted mind set, probably already emotionally damaged, by God knows what.  Ask their parents, who I believe are ultimately responsible.  No child grows up without input from the family home, who were quite possibly keeping the flag flying.  Blame some silly girl.  Nothing to do with me.  The Caliphate will win.  And then we can all praise Allah.

Whoops, got that wrong.  Nothing to do with me.  Send my silly daughter back home, and then we can all be grateful to Britain, who let's face it, are a soft touch.

Shamima Begum did not get out of Britain without some help from her family, even if she stole it.

I am sad that she lost three children, who would appear to have been at risk from their mother, who at her age should not have been having children in the first place.  Probably from under developed lungs.  And let's face it, three children in four years is not a good idea.  Certainly not starting at the age of fifteen.

But I am tired of this now.  I don't really care what Britain does with her.  But I would be having her family nailed to the cross.  Who are these people?

As you see, it's a complicated subject. Happy well-adjusted people are less likely to be tempted to get involved in these things. We don't know much about her family but her father seems to have abandoned them. He went back to Bangladesh and took another wife when he retired apparently. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
As you see, it's a complicated subject. Happy well-adjusted people are less likely to be tempted to get involved in these things. We don't know much about her family but her father seems to have abandoned them. He went back to Bangladesh and took another wife when he retired apparently.

So if a 15 year old from a single parent family stabs and kills someone we should not send them to prison because prison doesn't work.... Do you think if we followed your stupid logic we would see less knife crime
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 07:30:47 PM
As you see, it's a complicated subject. Happy well-adjusted people are less likely to be tempted to get involved in these things. We don't know much about her family but her father seems to have abandoned them. He went back to Bangladesh and took another wife when he retired apparently.

Not that complicated.  And who the hell lives a good and happy life?  And then bogs off to The Caliphate to slaughter other people.
She only wants to go back to Britain because The Caliphate is done.  Her Father is irrelevant.  But she could always go live with him.

I don't want to be unkind to her in her distress,  and she is only a pain in the neck for Britain, but She is not sorry for what these people did to countless innocents.

The girl is a moron with no shame.  Would you have ever behaved like this?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 07:33:27 PM
So if a 15 year old from a single parent family stabs and kills someone we should not send them to prison because prison doesn't work.... Do you think if we followed your stupid logic we would see less knife crime

Did you really have a need to use the word  "Stupid?"  Your point would have ben made without that.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 08:33:58 AM
It's not about sympathy or empathy. It's about trying to understand why people do what they do because that's the only way to stop them. Whether it's people going to join IS or young lads stabbing each other punishment doesn't work. If it did we would have no crime.

What does work is rehabilitation. Understanding why people do things and helping them to change may be a permanent solution. Punishment is temporary and solves nothing.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/24/special-prison-unit-where-rehabilitation-rules-hmp-new-hall

Here you are again stating your opinion as facts... We have an epidemic of knife crime and you suggest these people should not be jailed as it doesn't work... Where is the evidence that jail does not work
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 09:17:50 AM
G-Unit is now playing the part of a bleeding heart liberal which is IMO somewhat at odds with her Pro-Brexit “will of the people” stance.  One has to wonder if there is a degree of devils advocate going on here?  If she believes jail serves no purpose and rehabilitation is the only solution for young criminals I suggest she tell that to the parents of Jamie Bulger for a start.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 10, 2019, 11:16:37 AM
G-Unit is now playing the part of a bleeding heart liberal which is IMO somewhat at odds with her Pro-Brexit “will of the people” stance.  One has to wonder if there is a degree of devils advocate going on here?  If she believes jail serves no purpose and rehabilitation is the only solution for young criminals I suggest she tell that to the parents of Jamie Bulger for a start.

You do love applying labels, don't you? I don't understand quite why 'beeding heart liverals' can;t support Brexit, but it obviously makes sense to you. I'm neither pro or anti Brexit, btw, I'm pro democracy. If the people are asked to decide on an issue the result should be honoured, not overridden.

I havem't said we should abandon prison sentences, I said they don't deter other people or stop people from reoffending. Rehabilitation during a sentence is what has enabled some offenders to change their behaviour,
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 11:28:43 AM
You do love applying labels, don't you? I don't understand quite why 'beeding heart liverals' can;t support Brexit, but it obviously makes sense to you. I'm neither pro or anti Brexit, btw, I'm pro democracy. If the people are asked to decide on an issue the result should be honoured, not overridden.

I havem't said we should abandon prison sentences, I said they don't deter other people or stop people from reoffending. Rehabilitation during a sentence is what has enabled some offenders to change their behaviour,

Again you are, stating your opinion as, fact.... Who says prison sentences dint deter criminal activity... That's a ridiculous statement to make...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 01:26:53 PM
G-Unit is now playing the part of a bleeding heart liberal which is IMO somewhat at odds with her Pro-Brexit “will of the people” stance.  One has to wonder if there is a degree of devils advocate going on here?  If she believes jail serves no purpose and rehabilitation is the only solution for young criminals I suggest she tell that to the parents of Jamie Bulger for a start.

Actually, Picking Jamie Bulgers killers was a bad idead to shout down G unit. The fact is one of those boys became a real 'bad un'  and the other was 'rehabilitated', lives with a partner, who know who he really is- and hasn't been in troube since.

It just shows that on this forum there is a gang mentality. I disagree with G on this thread, but just do not feel the need to attack her with naked aggression. i respect her opinion because I know it is genuine.

"G-Unit is now playing the part of a bleeding heart liberal which is IMO somewhat at odds with her Pro-Brexit “will of the people” stance"  AND who the hell are you  and your gang to name call?

We who do not lick the boots of the McCanns, WHO ARE NOT INNOCENT, because they have not been on trial,  are called facists, bleedin heart liberals...

I thought the forum mods had been warned not to allow name calling?


I very much doubt the ISIS brides can be rehabilitated if they are die hard supporters- they are an evil who live among us and want to destroy our way of life. There is no place in MY homeland for such babaric fanatics. Who, let's face it have a severe mental illness.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 01:51:47 PM
Actually, Picking Jamie Bulgers killers was a bad idead to shout down G unit. The fact is one of those boys became a real 'bad un'  and the other was 'rehabilitated', lives with a partner, who know who he really is- and hasn't been in troube since.

It just shows that on this forum there is a gang mentality. I disagree with G on this thread, but just do not feel the need to attack her with naked aggression. i respect her opinion because I know it is genuine.

"G-Unit is now playing the part of a bleeding heart liberal which is IMO somewhat at odds with her Pro-Brexit “will of the people” stance"  AND who the hell are you  and your gang to name call?

We who do not lick the boots of the McCanns, WHO ARE NOT INNOCENT, because they have not been on trial,  are called facists, bleedin heart liberals...

I thought the forum mods had been warned not to allow name calling?


I very much doubt the ISIS brides can be rehabilitated if they are die hard supporters- they are an evil who live among us and want to destroy our way of life. There is no place in MY homeland for such babaric fanatics. Who, let's face it have a severe mental illness.
Jesus.  Talk about naked aggression.  Anyone who advocates not punishment but rehabilitation for criminals can legitimately be called a bleeding heart liberal.  If you disagree feel free to say why.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 01:56:36 PM
You do love applying labels, don't you? I don't understand quite why 'beeding heart liverals' can;t support Brexit, but it obviously makes sense to you. I'm neither pro or anti Brexit, btw, I'm pro democracy. If the people are asked to decide on an issue the result should be honoured, not overridden.

I havem't said we should abandon prison sentences, I said they don't deter other people or stop people from reoffending. Rehabilitation during a sentence is what has enabled some offenders to change their behaviour,
According to you “punishment doesn’t work” (no cites given) but rehabilitation does (no cites given) so what do you propose we do with individuals who act like traitors by running away to foreign countries of their own volition to join terrorist organisations whose main aim is to bring down western civilisation and replace it with an Islamic state? 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
Jesus.  Talk about naked aggression.  Anyone who advocates not punishment but rehabilitation for criminals can legitimately be called a bleeding heart liberal.  If you disagree feel free to say why.

AS always, you are changing what has been said. just as well you didn't take part in a certain survey...

G unit has not claimed all criminals should not be jailed. she is claiming that some can be rehabiltated. and that seems to be the case. SOME being the operative word here.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:31:38 PM
AS always, you are changing what has been said. just as well you didn't take part in a certain survey...

G unit has not claimed all criminals should not be jailed. she is claiming that some can be rehabiltated. and that seems to be the case. SOME being the operative word here.
I have changed nothing.  I have accurately presented G-Unit’s views. “Punishment doesn’t work, rehabilitation does”.  This is a typical bleeding-heart liberal view.  Some people are proud to be viewed as such anyway, I myself am more BHL than the typical Mail reader “Flog ‘Em & Hang ‘Em” brigade.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:34:08 PM
AS always, you are changing what has been said. just as well you didn't take part in a certain survey...

G unit has not claimed all criminals should not be jailed. she is claiming that some can be rehabiltated. and that seems to be the case. SOME being the operative word here.
Oh and just a reminder of your first post to me on this thread when I adopted the Bleeding Heart Liberal approach
“Oh to be so glib about a real threat to British born women of any colour or faith. Your post shows you have no real concern for fellow citizens and the real threat posed to us.

Boring banal diatribe is all that eminates from you”.
Straight in with the insults before I’d addressed a post to anyone on this thread. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 02:37:58 PM
I have changed nothing.  I have accurately presented G-Unit’s views. “Punishment doesn’t work, rehabilitation does”.  This is a typical bleeding-heart liberal view.  Some people are proud to be viewed as such anyway, I myself am more BHL than the typical Mail reader “Flog ‘Em & Hang ‘Em” brigade.

 People should be punished for henious crimes.- if while in prison they get rehabilitated then all is good- it can also change the most hardened criminal- when they get fed up.

I am more a 'each case based on merit to be judged' kinda person. Since my grandad was one!  I just do not follow a crowd,join a gang, or push an agenda- Free thinking is always better.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:39:27 PM
People should be punished for henious crimes.- if while in prison they get rehabilitated then all is good- it can also change the most hardened criminal- when they get fed up.

I am more a 'each case based on merit to be judged' kinda person. Since my grandad was one!  I just do not follow a crowd,join a gang, or push an agenda- Free thinking is always better.
Wow.  Simply in awe here at your free spiritedness.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 10, 2019, 03:04:07 PM
According to you “punishment doesn’t work” (no cites given) but rehabilitation does (no cites given) so what do you propose we do with individuals who act like traitors by running away to foreign countries of their own volition to join terrorist organisations whose main aim is to bring down western civilisation and replace it with an Islamic state?

I thought anyone who took an interest in the world knew that prison doesn't stop people reoffending or deter others from committing crimes. If you disagree then explain why we still have prisons packed with those who weren't deterred even though they knew they would go to prison and those who had been in there before but still committed new crimes?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 03:10:52 PM
I thought anyone who took an interest in the world knew that prison doesn't stop people reoffending or deter others from committing crimes. If you disagree then explain why we still have prisons packed with those who weren't deterred even though they knew they would go to prison and those who had been in there before but still committed new crimes?
How about you answer my question before posing your own?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 03:51:05 PM
I thought anyone who took an interest in the world knew that prison doesn't stop people reoffending or deter others from committing crimes. If you disagree then explain why we still have prisons packed with those who weren't deterred even though they knew they would go to prison and those who had been in there before but still committed new crimes?

you are making a false assumption that prison is not a deterrant to those who do not commit crimes and dont end up in prison....many commit crimes because they think they wont get caught....or wont get sent to prison

so speeding fines are not a deterrant because poeple still speed...speed cameras not a deterrant...your logic is false and poorly thought out ...why do those who commit crimes cover their faces if prison is not a deterrant
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 06:25:28 PM
you are making a false assumption that prison is not a deterrant to those who do not commit crimes and dont end up in prison....many commit crimes because they think they wont get caught....or wont get sent to prison

so speeding fines are not a deterrant because poeple still speed...speed cameras not a deterrant...your logic is false and poorly thought out ...why do those who commit crimes cover their faces if prison is not a deterrant
Rehabilitation is also not the solution as Miss Taken kindly pointed out.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 11, 2019, 10:47:18 AM
Rehabilitation is also not the solution as Miss Taken kindly pointed out.

Miss Taken did NOT say rehbilitation does not work. in reply th Gunit.

quote
Actually, Picking Jamie Bulgers killers was a bad idead to shout down G unit. The fact is one of those boys became a real 'bad un'  and the other was 'rehabilitated', lives with a partner, who know who he really is- and hasn't been in troube since.unquote.


I did say fundamentalist jihadis would not respond to just rehabilitation- they should be jailed!.- Due to their mental capacity  having been brainwashed.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 11:41:57 AM
Miss Taken did NOT say rehbilitation does not work. in reply th Gunit.

quote
Actually, Picking Jamie Bulgers killers was a bad idead to shout down G unit. The fact is one of those boys became a real 'bad un'  and the other was 'rehabilitated', lives with a partner, who know who he really is- and hasn't been in troube since.unquote.


I did say fundamentalist jihadis would not respond to just rehabilitation- they should be jailed!.- Due to their mental capacity  having been brainwashed.
Using the Bulger killers as an example, it seems that rehabilitation has a 50% chance of success.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 12:01:30 PM
Rehabilitation is also not the solution as Miss Taken kindly pointed out.

It is in Norway;

The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12?r=US&IR=T
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 12:36:37 PM
It is in Norway;

The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12?r=US&IR=T
Is that the model you would like to see in the UK?  A system in which murderers, terrorists, rapists and child sex abusers are treated well, in prisons more closely resembling hotels, and released after a few short years of rehabilitation back into the community?  It's very progressive of you.  Perhaps we should have a referendum on the matter.  I wonder how the GBP would vote...
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 03:41:48 PM
Is that the model you would like to see in the UK?  A system in which murderers, terrorists, rapists and child sex abusers are treated well, in prisons more closely resembling hotels, and released after a few short years of rehabilitation back into the community?  It's very progressive of you.  Perhaps we should have a referendum on the matter.  I wonder how the GBP would vote...

Only 20% of Norway's criminals reoffend.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 03:47:01 PM
Only 20% of Norway's criminals reoffend.
Another question neatly dodged. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 05:54:44 PM
Only 20% of Norway's criminals reoffend.

If you read the article you quoted that may be because Norway keeps people locked up longer and doesn't let then out until they feel they are rehabilitated.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 11, 2019, 06:09:06 PM

How does anyone rehabilitate anyone who pays allegiance only to Allah, and will kill you if you don't? Given half a chance.

I have no idea of how Allah thinks of this.  But then they probably don't either.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 06:33:39 PM
If you read the article you quoted that may be because Norway keeps people locked up longer and doesn't let then out until they feel they are rehabilitated.
“In general, offenders who were convicted for lower level index crimes, which tend to be committed in higher volumes, are more likely to be reconvicted than those who commit more serious crimes.
"This is largely because these offenders commit relatively low-level crimes such as shoplifting, and tend to commit them in higher volumes so they are reconvicted more often."”
They probably don’t bother imprisoning petty thieves or street corner drug dealers at all in Norway which might help explain why their recidivism level is lower.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 06:36:55 PM
Oslo in 2012 seems to have a murder rate of 3.2 per 100,000
London 1.1..gunit needs to do a bit more research and a bit more thinking
https://www.statista.com/statistics/318810/homicide-rate-for-the-most-populous-city-in-european-countries/
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 06:41:45 PM
 Really Funny
Edit
A large proportion of the crime that is carried out in Norway is committed by criminals from overseas.[13] 34 percent of the Norwegian prison population are foreigners.[13] In his autobiography Undesirables, British criminal Colin Blaney has claimed that gangs of English thieves target the nation on account of the perception that its prisons are relatively comfortable compared to those of other countries.[14] Studies also indicate that this is one of the reasons that criminals from other parts of the world commit crime in Norway
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 06:59:59 PM
How does anyone rehabilitate anyone who pays allegiance only to Allah, and will kill you if you don't? Given half a chance.

I have no idea of how Allah thinks of this.  But then they probably don't either.

There are other organisations which brainwash people; remember the fuss some years ago about the Moonies? I assune there are ways and means.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 09:10:37 AM
There are other organisations which brainwash people; remember the fuss some years ago about the Moonies? I assune there are ways and means.

Having seen how sceptics refuse to change their minds ...only accepting their own version of the evidence... I can see how difficult it might be to deradicalise someone...
You yourself having been shown clear, evidence that smoking causes, cancer simply refuse to accept it
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 30, 2019, 12:44:09 PM
Having seen how sceptics refuse to change their minds ...only accepting their own version of the evidence... I can see how difficult it might be to deradicalise someone...
You yourself having been shown clear, evidence that smoking causes, cancer simply refuse to accept it

condescending post.... I as a non believer of abduction from windows - as is mothers testimoney

The supporters have no case to present due no crime being established. was MBM kidknapped/Murdered/ sold?- due to the fact there is absolutely no evidence of this event taking place. The two police investigating are also looking away from the window story- as a possible red herring I wonder.

Therefore as I have not made up my mind what happened and who dun it  My mind cannot be changed- your post is just made up for entertainment value only IMO.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Angelo222 on March 30, 2019, 12:47:13 PM
Having seen how sceptics refuse to change their minds ...only accepting their own version of the evidence... I can see how difficult it might be to deradicalise someone...
You yourself having been shown clear, evidence that smoking causes, cancer simply refuse to accept it

Not only for the smoker but everyone around them is also at risk.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 02:12:55 PM
condescending post.... I as a non believer of abduction from windows - as is mothers testimoney

The supporters have no case to present due no crime being established. was MBM kidknapped/Murdered/ sold?- due to the fact there is absolutely no evidence of this event taking place. The two police investigating are also looking away from the window story- as a possible red herring I wonder.

Therefore as I have not made up my mind what happened and who dun it  My mind cannot be changed- your post is just made up for entertainment value only IMO.

Way Off Topic, and not relevant.  Don't do this again.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 02:15:41 PM
Not only for the smoker but everyone around them is also at risk.

So why not me?  Or any of the other long time smokers of my family.  They all lived way beyond ninety, and I ain't all that far off.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:13:45 PM
So why not me?  Or any of the other long time smokers of my family.  They all lived way beyond ninety, and I ain't all that far off.
Genetics probably.  In the same way that havng unprotected sex can lead to getting Aids, not everyone who is exposed to the HIV virus will test positive, even after numerous encounters.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 06:29:11 PM
Genetics probably.  In the same way that havng unprotected sex can lead to getting Aids, not everyone who is exposed to the HIV virus will test positive, even after numerous encounters.

Of course it's genetics.  So nothing much to do with smoking then.  My choice.

HIV?  I've done a bit of that in my time, and I haven't got that either.  Natural Selection, peut etre.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:52:13 PM
Of course it's genetics.  So nothing much to do with smoking then.  My choice.

HIV?  I've done a bit of that in my time, and I haven't got that either.  Natural Selection, peut etre.
Of course it’s to do with smoking, just as getting HIV is to do with having unprotected sex with others who are infected, it’s just that some people have a natural protection against the disease built into their genetic makeup.  So I believe some people could smoke a hundred fags a day for 80 years and not develop cancer but that doesn’t mean smoking does not cause cancer in others.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:57:53 PM
Here’s a question for you - do you accept that prolonged exposure to harsh sun rays can cause skin cancer? 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Of course it’s to do with smoking, just as getting HIV is to do with having unprotected sex with others who are infected, it’s just that some people have a natural protection against the disease built into their genetic makeup.  So I believe some people could smoke a hundred fags a day for 80 years and not develop cancer but that doesn’t mean smoking does not cause cancer in others.

There are a fair few people who don't.  Actually, I can't be bothered with this.  Don't screw.  Don't smoke.  Don't drink.  Don't eat.

Actually, food has caused me far more problems and made me more ill.  But no one is interested in this.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 07:16:48 PM
Here’s a question for you - do you accept that prolonged exposure to harsh sun rays can cause skin cancer?

I don't understand that either.  I spent most of my life getting as brown as I could, including three years in The Tropics.  Vitamin D not withstanding.  I liked being tanned.  I don't know what skin cancer looks like and I am certainly not searching my body to see if I've got it.  And it's all a bit late now.

Most of it is all in the mind.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 07:29:44 PM
I don't understand that either.  I spent most of my life getting as brown as I could, including three years in The Tropics.  Vitamin D not withstanding.  I liked being tanned.  I don't know what skin cancer looks like and I am certainly not searching my body to see if I've got it.  And it's all a bit late now.

Most of it is all in the mind.
Haha, OK. 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 07:33:24 PM
Haha, OK.

Yep.  Wouldn't it be a laugh if I am wrong.  What should I die of, do you think?
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 08:17:12 PM
Yep.  Wouldn't it be a laugh if I am wrong.  What should I die of, do you think?
Very, very old age I hope x
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:25:25 PM
Very, very old age I hope x

#MeToo.  x
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 10:46:57 PM
Having seen how sceptics refuse to change their minds ...only accepting their own version of the evidence... I can see how difficult it might be to deradicalise someone...
You yourself having been shown clear, evidence that smoking causes, cancer simply refuse to accept it

Smoking is associated with lung cancer, it doesn't cause it.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:20:25 PM
Smoking is associated with lung cancer, it doesn't cause it.
”Smoking doesn’t cause cancer” says leading McCann sceptic, read all about it!”
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 30, 2019, 11:46:41 PM
Yep.  Wouldn't it be a laugh if I am wrong.  What should I die of, do you think?

You should die of a healthy lifestyle- with evidence -at the ripe ole age of 145... then have your body frozen to come

Did red Indians, black africans   native australians, all die off with skin cancer?

No. it is a gene pool thing. We all have cancer in our body,something can trigger a growth in some people and not in others.

my great gran lived until she was 98...  she smoked untipped cigarettes and had a glass of wine every single day! and tiinies of guiness at the weekend.   She needed the iron!! 
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 31, 2019, 12:10:54 AM
You should die of a healthy lifestyle- with evidence -at the ripe ole age of 145... then have your body frozen to come

Did red Indians, black africans   native australians, all die off with skin cancer?

No. it is a gene pool thing. We all have cancer in our body,something can trigger a growth in some people and not in others.

my great gran lived until she was 98...  she smoked untipped cigarettes and had a glass of wine every single day! and tiinies of guiness at the weekend.   She needed the iron!!

“Dark pigmented people living in high sunlight environments are at an advantage due to the high amounts of melanin produced in their skin. The dark pigmentation protects from DNA damage and absorbs the right amounts of UV radiation needed by the body, as well as protects against folate depletion”.
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Davel on April 07, 2019, 12:25:34 PM
Smoking is associated with lung cancer, it doesn't cause it.

I think you now realise hoe wrong you are
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 25, 2019, 09:38:23 AM
Well away from the front page news. Tens of Thousands of Tax payers money are being spent- deradicalising the ISIS brides to allow them to return. lessons learned and all that. ^*&&-  wool over eyes- being duped  IS what money being spent on!

Group Hug anyone...People need to know what these 'brides' and their sons took part in...Not pleasant!
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 31, 2019, 06:43:03 PM
Well away from the front page news. Tens of Thousands of Tax payers money are being spent- deradicalising the ISIS brides to allow them to return. lessons learned and all that. ^*&&-  wool over eyes- being duped  IS what money being spent on!

Group Hug anyone...People need to know what these 'brides' and their sons took part in...Not pleasant!

AND it is ALL your fault!
'London: The lawyer representing the runaway Islamic State (ISIS) bride Shamima Begum on Friday accused the UK government of failing to protect her from grooming and radicalisation by Islamist extremists and demanded the teenager be allowed to return to her home in London'


She is to get legal aid... will cost millions but  like the advert says  she's worth it... ^*&&

https://www.news18.com/news/world/isis-brides-lawyer-accuses-uk-of-failing-to-protect-her-2167519.html

Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 10:50:17 PM
Anyone crying over the decision to strip Jihadi Jack of his British citizenship?

https://news.sky.com/story/jihadi-jack-stripped-of-uk-citizenship-sky-sources-11788024
Title: Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 20, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
Anyone crying over the decision to strip Jihadi Jack of his British citizenship?

https://news.sky.com/story/jihadi-jack-stripped-of-uk-citizenship-sky-sources-11788024


Great idea   AND also there is to be no addmittance of children born in 'isis land'- due to them being exposed  to extreme parenting beliefs and educational environment.

If anyone has been watching the compelling TV series 'The Handmaids Tale'(ch4) although based on fictional christian fundamentalist take over. The similarities to isis  ideology ,being the muslim equivelant, is bloody scary!

Someone known to me who was over in the camp has informed me that most of the 'brides with children' are the trojan horses seeking to cause war and mayhem in the west.