UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 11:28:28 AM

Title: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
And what do they need to do to tackle it ?

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/12/02/the-tory-racism-problem-is-as-severe-as-labour-s

As a Jewish person who supports the Labour party, it's fair to say that last week was not fun.

The Chief Rabbi's condemnation of Labour was a depressing moment. Jeremy Corbyn's failure to apologise on television for the hurt caused to the Jewish community was intensely frustrating. But for me the nadir came in a tweet from Michael Gove.

He was responding to the historian Sir Richard Evans, who had written that he was planning to vote Labour. With his characteristic pious charm, Gove pronounced: "History teaches us where a failure to stand up to anti-semitism leads – which is why it is all the sadder to see this historian of the twentieth century fail to heed its lessons."

Never mind that Evans has spent his career explaining the rise of Nazism and helped demolish the reputation of a prominent Holocaust denier. Never mind that during the referendum campaign Gove compared pro-EU experts to Nazi scientists. Here was a Cabinet minister, standing on an overtly xenophobic and nationalistic election platform, daring to lecture us about the dangers of racism and implicitly likening the threat of Corbyn to that of Adolf Hitler.

There is a real crisis of anti-semitism in this country, across the political spectrum. It has in recent years taken root in a fringe of the left. The Labour party dismally failed in its early response. But under no circumstances will a party that has promoted racist exclusionary politics all my life presume to speak for me or defend my interests.

Perhaps we should remind ourselves about the credentials of our new 'anti-racist' party. In the last ten years, the Conservative government unveiled the hostile environment, which systematically dehumanised immigrants, split up families and overwhelmingly discriminated against non-white people. That government dispatched the famously friendly 'Go Home' vans. Under Theresa May's watch, black Britons were denied medical treatment or deported in the Windrush scandal. And the drum-beat of English nationalism reached a crescendo as Gove and Boris Johnson deliberately terrified voters during the referendum campaign with the fake prospect of 76 million Turks imminently arriving in Britain through an open door.

In this election campaign, the health secretary has already dog-whistled about the 'International Health Service' in reference to an imaginary problem about foreign users of the NHS. Last week a Tory press release described the "strain" placed on schools by children from the EU "increasing the demand for places". In both cases the party has explicitly aped the language of the far right.

But of course the Tories have form when it comes to election campaigns. We have already forgotten Zac Goldsmith's scorched-earth pursuit of the London mayoralty in 2016, which advised voters with Indian-sounding surnames that Sadiq Khan was planning a tax on family heirlooms, labelled his Muslim opponent with the coded word "radical", and culminated with a Goldsmith op-ed in the Daily Mail painting Khan as a friend of terrorists and illustrated by the bus blown up on 7/7. Johnson, incidentally, joined that campaign wholeheartedly and himself wrote that Khan was "pandering to extremists".

Funnily enough, there was also a prominent politician of Jewish origin who fell victim to coded right-wing smears. The Tory machine was never so crass to shout about Ed Miliband's ethnicity, but the constant pictures of the bacon sandwich, references to 'north London', and, worst of all, the declaration by then-Cabinet minister Michael Fallon that "Ed Miliband stabbed his own brother in the back to become Labour leader" and was now "willing to stab the United Kingdom in the back to become prime minister" did the job well enough.

Fallon's remark invoked the notorious 'stab in the back' myth from the Weimar Republic and recalled the anti-semitic trope about Jews' supposed lack of loyalty to their adopted countries. It neatly echoed the Daily Mail's earlier assault on Miliband's father Ralph, a war hero and refugee from the Nazis, as a man who "hated Britain".

The Conservatives have been perfectly comfortable with anti-semites for years. As recently as Thursday, Theresa May unveiled a statue of the notorious anti-semite Nancy Astor, who proposed that Hitler might solve the "world problem" of Jews. The Tories have proved cheerleaders in the European parliament for Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, who propelled the anti-semitic abuse against George Soros into its own category of electioneering.

Then, of course, there is the Conservative party's endemic Islamophobia. This does not simply relate to parliamentary candidates, but also the membership. A YouGov poll in June found that 40% of members wanted to place limits on the number of Muslims permitted to enter the country, and 43% would object to a Muslim prime minister.

This problem attracts a distinct double standard. Imagine if a senior Labour figure had ridiculed orthodox Jewish attire, or if a shadow Cabinet minister had told Margaret Hodge to take a more "balanced" approach to antisemitism, as Matt Hancock advised Baroness Warsi regarding Islamophobia. Last Tuesday the prime minister helpfully declared that anyone in the party "done for Islamophobia" would be "out first bounce". Sadly the man who likened women wearing the burka to letter-boxes and bank robbers remains the party's leader.

This election is not just dragging in Jews and Muslims. The Conservatives are additionally managing to persuade Hindus that Labour is anti-Indian, following Labour's conference motion condemning the Indian government's recent actions in Kashmir. No matter that ministers have described this as an "international issue" and expressed their concerns with Indian counterparts. Communities must be pitched against one another. Ethnicity must be weaponised. People must be scared, divided and ruled.

This is not about which racism is worse, but which electoral path will do the most to tackle it. A party which opportunistically instrumentalises racism, and uses the anguish of the Jewish community to cleanse both its past record and current platform, will never be a champion of tolerant or progressive politics. It will throw any number of people under the bus to secure victory.

We need to talk about the antisemitism problem in the Labour party. But let it never be said the Tories don't care about racism. They literally depend on it.

Jonathan Lis is deputy director of the pro-EU think tank British Influence and a political writer and commentator.



Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 03:12:13 PM
https://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/youngreporter/18072524.tories-institutionally-racist/

Are the Tories institutionally racist?

   

Boris Johnson and the Conservative Party have come under fire for fostering Islamophobia and turning a blind eye to racism? But to what extent is this accurate?

Although the problem of racism within the Conservative Party hasn’t been addressed as much within the mainstream media, compared to the problem of many prominent left-wing political pundits such as Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar the problems of racism and Islamophobia within the Conservative Party and the failure of the party to address it. But is racism a widespread problem within the Tory Party, and if so, what needs to be done to this, should it exist?


In addition to the complaints of Conservative Party MPs such as Derek Laud and Andrew have freely admitted there is ‘endemic racism’ within the party, Sayeeda Warsi, a former party chair and prominent Tory figure, admitted she could not encourage Muslims to join the party, arguing that racism and Islamophobia ran through the ‘top’ of the Party. Since being voted in by Conservative party members during the leadership elections earlier this year, Boris Johnson has been widely criticised over a number of insensitive comments made towards minorities prior to becoming elected, with him coming under fire for comparing gay marriage to sex between ‘three dogs and a man’, claiming that ‘the poorest 20% of British society’ is comprised of "chavs," "losers," "burglars," "drug addicts," and "criminals in an unearthed 2005 column, dismissing workers as ‘drunk, criminal and feckless’, referring to disabled people as ‘spasos’, referring to those devastated by the atrocities of Hillsborough as ‘wallowing in self pity’, describing gay people as ‘tank-topped bumboys’, in addition to a sleu of racially problematic comments made during his time as editor of the Spectator and Mayor of London. Indeed, Boris has been quoted as believing that believing a return to imperialism would be best for Africa, in addition to joking about clearing away dead bodies in Libya, but also describing black people as ‘ with watermelon smiles’, stating in the Spectator that ‘black people broadly have lower IQs’. Furthermore, left-wing political commentators such as Owen Jones have noted the correlation between his incendiary rhetoric towards the Muslim community (likening Muslim women to ‘ and ‘bank-robbers’ for exercising their right to wear a religious garment and arguing Islam has caused the Muslim world to be “literally centuries behind” the west) and the 375% spike in hate crime. Whilst Boris Johnson has defended these remarks as being ‘satirical’ and stating that some of these remarks have been ‘misquoted’, this rhetoric does arguably cast some doubt over whether the Conservative Party suffers to some extent from institutional racism, especially when leading right-wing figures are commenting on supposed problems with and racism.


That said, it would be reductive to simply look at Boris Johnson, the leader of the Conservatives when investigating if there really is a scourge of endemic racism within the Tory Party. Indeed, former leader Theresa May also came under fire for being quoted as saying that ‘the aim is to create, here in Britain, a really hostile environment for illegal immigrants", along with the ‘go home’ vans’ and black British citizens being deported and denied jobs, homes and hospital treatment due to the Windrush scandal. Furthermore, amongst local Tory members and councillors, there has also been a history of racist tropes being peddled, without being duly addressed or reprimanded. In 2009, Bolton Councillor Bob Allen posted a picture of a gorilla next to comments about a colleague, and yet he still remains a Tory councillor to this day, which does raise questions even from an independent perspective. Furthermore, when Tory Councillor complained about the number of Pakistani immigrants in his town (albeit with coarser language), the council’s Leader, Tony Bennett complained that calls for Benson to step down were ‘too harsh’, which also flags up questions as to whether the Tories are doing enough to stamp out the grave threat of racism. Similarly, in 2015, back when Gavin Barwell was an MP the Croydon Conservatives failed to for, or take disciplinary action over, the racist, xenophobic and Islamophobic tweets of Anne Piles, a member of their executive committee.  60% of Conservative Party members think Islam is a threat to and 15 Conservative councillors were quietly reinstated following being suspended for Islamophobia, most notably David to Islam as ‘the religion of rape’ and yet still he wasn’t duly punished by the Tories.

That said, Boris Johnson’s current Conservative cabinet is amongst the most diverse it has ever been and it would be remiss of me to broadly dismiss the Tory Party as a racist based on specific cases. Whilst the issue of whether the Tory Party en suffers from a trend of institutional racism is nebulous and for you to try and decipher, it is clear that leaders such as Boris Johnson and Theresa May need to be more careful with their rhetoric to ensure they don’t inadvertently foster within their party.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 04:07:27 PM
https://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/youngreporter/18072524.tories-institutionally-racist/

Are the Tories institutionally racist?

   

Boris Johnson and the Conservative Party have come under fire for fostering Islamophobia and turning a blind eye to racism? But to what extent is this accurate?

Although the problem of racism within the Conservative Party hasn’t been addressed as much within the mainstream media, compared to the problem of many prominent left-wing political pundits such as Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar the problems of racism and Islamophobia within the Conservative Party and the failure of the party to address it. But is racism a widespread problem within the Tory Party, and if so, what needs to be done to this, should it exist?


In addition to the complaints of Conservative Party MPs such as Derek Laud and Andrew have freely admitted there is ‘endemic racism’ within the party, Sayeeda Warsi, a former party chair and prominent Tory figure, admitted she could not encourage Muslims to join the party, arguing that racism and Islamophobia ran through the ‘top’ of the Party. Since being voted in by Conservative party members during the leadership elections earlier this year, Boris Johnson has been widely criticised over a number of insensitive comments made towards minorities prior to becoming elected, with him coming under fire for comparing gay marriage to sex between ‘three dogs and a man’, claiming that ‘the poorest 20% of British society’ is comprised of "chavs," "losers," "burglars," "drug addicts," and "criminals in an unearthed 2005 column, dismissing workers as ‘drunk, criminal and feckless’, referring to disabled people as ‘spasos’, referring to those devastated by the atrocities of Hillsborough as ‘wallowing in self pity’, describing gay people as ‘tank-topped bumboys’, in addition to a sleu of racially problematic comments made during his time as editor of the Spectator and Mayor of London. Indeed, Boris has been quoted as believing that believing a return to imperialism would be best for Africa, in addition to joking about clearing away dead bodies in Libya, but also describing black people as ‘ with watermelon smiles’, stating in the Spectator that ‘black people broadly have lower IQs’. Furthermore, left-wing political commentators such as Owen Jones have noted the correlation between his incendiary rhetoric towards the Muslim community (likening Muslim women to ‘ and ‘bank-robbers’ for exercising their right to wear a religious garment and arguing Islam has caused the Muslim world to be “literally centuries behind” the west) and the 375% spike in hate crime. Whilst Boris Johnson has defended these remarks as being ‘satirical’ and stating that some of these remarks have been ‘misquoted’, this rhetoric does arguably cast some doubt over whether the Conservative Party suffers to some extent from institutional racism, especially when leading right-wing figures are commenting on supposed problems with and racism.


That said, it would be reductive to simply look at Boris Johnson, the leader of the Conservatives when investigating if there really is a scourge of endemic racism within the Tory Party. Indeed, former leader Theresa May also came under fire for being quoted as saying that ‘the aim is to create, here in Britain, a really hostile environment for illegal immigrants", along with the ‘go home’ vans’ and black British citizens being deported and denied jobs, homes and hospital treatment due to the Windrush scandal. Furthermore, amongst local Tory members and councillors, there has also been a history of racist tropes being peddled, without being duly addressed or reprimanded. In 2009, Bolton Councillor Bob Allen posted a picture of a gorilla next to comments about a colleague, and yet he still remains a Tory councillor to this day, which does raise questions even from an independent perspective. Furthermore, when Tory Councillor complained about the number of Pakistani immigrants in his town (albeit with coarser language), the council’s Leader, Tony Bennett complained that calls for Benson to step down were ‘too harsh’, which also flags up questions as to whether the Tories are doing enough to stamp out the grave threat of racism. Similarly, in 2015, back when Gavin Barwell was an MP the Croydon Conservatives failed to for, or take disciplinary action over, the racist, xenophobic and Islamophobic tweets of Anne Piles, a member of their executive committee.  60% of Conservative Party members think Islam is a threat to and 15 Conservative councillors were quietly reinstated following being suspended for Islamophobia, most notably David to Islam as ‘the religion of rape’ and yet still he wasn’t duly punished by the Tories.

That said, Boris Johnson’s current Conservative cabinet is amongst the most diverse it has ever been and it would be remiss of me to broadly dismiss the Tory Party as a racist based on specific cases. Whilst the issue of whether the Tory Party en suffers from a trend of institutional racism is nebulous and for you to try and decipher, it is clear that leaders such as Boris Johnson and Theresa May need to be more careful with their rhetoric to ensure they don’t inadvertently foster within their party.


I find myself taking the racist stance because that is the box in which I am placed by those who feel they are better placed than me to have the correct opinion.

The rise of the  far right is down to the pathetic race card holding of the  minority. People do not want to accept they are the ones causing racial tension and division. The far right picked up that ticket and ran with it because citizens of this country who were affected by illegal immigration en mass had no one to listen to them- due to the race card holders.

There is NOTHING wrong with sending out of our country people who have arrived here illegally. They are  not here on a work permit with A JOB and housing secured for them and their families. The government has a duty to protect the taxpayer from over burdening them to provide housing,health,education and welfare payouts.

They are not impressed by the law breaking which goes on in their communities , again , is seen as racist to challenge this. Millions are spent on legal representatives and court time to allow these people to state a case to stay here and become good citizens. There is no guarantee some/many will be. What do we do then?

At school we studied the slave trade in earlier centuries- Yes, Jews and black African/middle eastern people were slaves for the Egyptians and Roman empires- and latterly know in the Americas and British empire.  The horrors of that stayed with me and always has.

The open borders have been used to keep alive the slave trade: drug runners, sex slaves, working slaves and the silence on these issues is deafening from the race card holders ready to wave it at anyone who dares to highlight any issues regarding illegal immigration.  This makes me a proud racist, because I want it to stop!

-  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7957865/Police-raid-4m-county-lines-cannabis-farm-discover-three-Vietnamese-slaves-locked-inside.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

Just one bit of information- they came on a visitor visa then wanted a job? why not apply for a works visa?

 Martin Luther King a wonderful man of courage and dignity brought about an awareness to injustice- real injustice!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 04:23:55 PM

I find myself taking the racist stance because that is the box in which I am placed by those who feel they are better placed than me to have the correct opinion.

The rise of the  far right is down to the pathetic race card holding of the  minority. People do not want to accept they are the ones causing racial tension and division. The far right picked up that ticket and ran with it because citizens of this country who were affected by illegal immigration en mass had no one to listen to them- due to the race card holders.

There is NOTHING wrong with sending out of our country people who have arrived here illegally. They are  not here on a work permit with A JOB and housing secured for them and their families. The government has a duty to protect the taxpayer from over burdening them to provide housing,health,education and welfare payouts.

They are not impressed by the law breaking which goes on in their communities , again , is seen as racist to challenge this. Millions are spent on legal representatives and court time to allow these people to state a case to stay here and become good citizens. There is no guarantee some/many will be. What do we do then?

At school we studied the slave trade in earlier centuries- Yes, Jews and black African/middle eastern people were slaves for the Egyptians and Roman empires- and latterly know in the Americas and British empire.  The horrors of that stayed with me and always has.

The open borders have been used to keep alive the slave trade: drug runners, sex slaves, working slaves and the silence on these issues is deafening from the race card holders ready to wave it at anyone who dares to highlight any issues regarding illegal immigration.  This makes me a proud racist, because I want it to stop!

-  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7957865/Police-raid-4m-county-lines-cannabis-farm-discover-three-Vietnamese-slaves-locked-inside.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

Just one bit of information- they came on a visitor visa then wanted a job? why not apply for a works visa?

 Martin Luther King a wonderful man of courage and dignity brought about an awareness to injustice- real injustice!

But on the single subject of racism within the Conservative party ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 04:47:58 PM
But on the single subject of racism within the Conservative party ?

Faith, I don't know. There is nothing wrong with not liking people. ALL races and creeds and colours do it.  If there is a law proposed to open up death camps in London to kill Jews/ Muslims / black citizens I would vehemently oppose it- I would take up arms against it- and I hate violence.

Waving the race card at white UK citizens only, is a disgrace and should not be tolerated.

We have to accept the fact that some Indians only marry their cousins some  hate those of a darker skin colour- black people attack and kill white people,  white people attack and kill black people. Some Jews hate Muslims and some muslims hate Jews  some hate anyone who isn't a Muslim!  Then you have those from Africa with their own hate crime against tribes.

They all live in this country no amount of name calling is going to make these people love each other. So best stop trying and making criminals of those who highlight these issues. IMO
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 05:52:05 PM
But on the single subject of racism within the Conservative party ?
Now if I’d posted what Miss Taken had posted I would have expected a more robust response from you than that! 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 06:23:01 PM
Now if I’d posted what Miss Taken had posted I would have expected a more robust response from you than that!

Faith was correct I didn't answer the direct question in her post.  I just made it clear that not everyone will play fair and to love each other is an achievable goal for social harmony.

Well, why ask someone else to do your tasks- tell me yourself.

 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 06:26:33 PM
Faith was correct I didn't answer the direct question in her post.  I just made it clear that not everyone will play fair and to love each other is an achievable goal for social harmony.

Well, why ask someone else to do your tasks- tell me yourself.
What do you want to know?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 06:29:15 PM
Now if I’d posted what Miss Taken had posted I would have expected a more robust response from you than that!

Then you flatter yourself.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 06:32:25 PM
Then you flatter yourself.
Quite the opposite.  I figured I was so loathed by yourself that had I expressed what imo appears to be an apology for racism that you would have let me know exactly what you thought of me, perhaps past allegiances are preventing you from doing likewise with the post’s author?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 06:58:46 PM
What do you want to know?

From you? absolutely nothing. I find your posts boring and repetitive and worthless.

I just wondered why you ask Faith  why she has not had a  go at me. Then I remember why you are here. Tsk.

I have not posted any lies. so what's to challenge?


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quite the opposite.  I figured I was so loathed by yourself that had I expressed what imo appears to be an apology for racism that you would have let me know exactly what you thought of me, perhaps past allegiances are preventing you from doing likewise with the post’s author?

I don’t loath you, I don’t know you.


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Erngath on February 03, 2020, 07:24:32 PM
From you? absolutely nothing. I find your posts boring and repetitive and worthless.

I just wondered why you ask Faith  why she has not had a  go at me. Then I remember why you are here. Tsk.

I have not posted any lies. so what's to challenge?

Three insults and all false and very unnecessary.
Why do you feel the need to do such posts?
Out of curiousity I do ask why is VS here?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Three insults and all false and very unnecessary.
Why do you feel the need to do such posts?
Out of curiousity I do ask why is VS here?

I did not insult anyone. Stop trying to cause trouble- I passed comment and opinion on his posts! not the person, unlike you who are very vocal about me and what I am like...

Stop thinking you are special, and above being challenged. I will not pander to your curiosity.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Erngath on February 03, 2020, 07:48:54 PM
I did not insult anyone. Stop trying to cause trouble- I passed comment and opinion on his posts! not the person, unlike you who are very vocal about me and what I am like...

Stop thinking you are special, and above being challenged. I will not pander to your curiosity.

Fair enough.
If you find VS posts boring and repetitive and worthless, I do find it strange you bother to reply to such boring and repetitive and worthless posts.
I don't think I'm "special" but my family keep telling me I am.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 08:12:05 PM
From you? absolutely nothing. I find your posts boring and repetitive and worthless.

I just wondered why you ask Faith  why she has not had a  go at me. Then I remember why you are here. Tsk.

I have not posted any lies. so what's to challenge?
You have posted a defence of racism which I would have expected a right-on socialist to challenge.
Btw, thanks for the feedback.  I am similarly deeply unimpressed by your semi-literate posts.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 08:13:27 PM
I don’t loath you, I don’t know you.
You loathe my opinions though, surely??!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 08:24:39 PM
You loathe my opinions though, surely??!

I disagree vehemently with many of them but loath is too strong a term.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 08:25:43 PM
I disagree vehemently with many of them but loath is too strong a term.
But you don’t disagree vehemently with anything Miss Taken has written on this thread.  How strange.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 08:29:12 PM
But you don’t disagree vehemently with anything Miss Taken has written on this thread.  How strange.

Care to comment on the topic ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 08:32:53 PM
Care to comment on the topic ?
Sure.  Miss Taken is spot on, all her views are absolutely correct.  Now you can debate with me if it’s too uncomfortable for you to debate with her.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 08:35:58 PM
Sure.  Miss Taken is spot on, all her views are absolutely correct.  Now you can debate with me if it’s too uncomfortable for you to debate with her.

This is getting rather dull now. It’s good to see that you and MIT actually do have something in common though.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 08:40:58 PM
This is getting rather dull now. It’s good to see that you and MIT actually do have something in common though.
Aww, you wouldn’t play.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 08:46:04 PM
Aww, you wouldn’t play.

No because I’m a grown up.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 09:25:59 PM
No because I’m a grown up.
what a stunning putdown.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 09:49:41 PM
what a stunning putdown.

It’s as much as you deserve.

Now you either begin posting on topic or I will stop replying.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 03, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
It’s as much as you deserve.

Now you either begin posting on topic or I will stop replying.
Ooh, I love it when you’re strict!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Erngath on February 03, 2020, 11:58:08 PM
Ooh, I love it when you’re strict!

God that reminds of that ghastly Benny Hill.
One comedian who made me feel quite ill.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2020, 12:51:52 AM
God that reminds of that ghastly Benny Hill.
One comedian who made me feel quite ill.

Ugh! Me too, along with the ghastly Carry On fims. Anyone want to talk about sexism?

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Erngath on February 04, 2020, 12:53:48 AM
Ugh! Me too, along with the ghastly Carry On fims. Anyone want to talk about sexism?

I loathe the Carry On Films.
Good to know I am not alone.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 06:44:45 AM
Ugh! Me too, along with the ghastly Carry On fims. Anyone want to talk about sexism?
Sure, I’m up for that, seeing as how no one seems interested in discussing Tory racism.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 11:14:51 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/24/tory-islamophobia-row-15-suspended-councillors-quietly-reinstated?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tory Islamophobia row: 15 suspended councillors quietly reinstated
 
Guardian investigation finds suspensions lifted despite apparent Islamophobia or racism
Tory members’ online comments deepen Islamophobia row
Frances Perraudin and Simon Murphy
Sun 24 Mar 2019 18.00 GMT Last modified on Fri 5 Apr 2019 09.01 BST

 Cllr Andrew Bowles was readmitted to the party after a 13-day suspension for retweeting a post describing the far-right leader Tommy Robinson as a patriot. Photograph: KMG/SWNS
More than a dozen Conservative councillors who were suspended over posting Islamophobic or racist content online – with some describing Saudis as “sand peasants” and sharing material comparing Asian people to dogs – have had their membership quietly reinstated, a Guardian investigation has found.

The chairman of the Conservative Muslim Forum, Mohammed Amin, called on the party to publish a set of formal disciplinary processes after the Guardian found 15 examples of politicians who posted content that was deemed objectionable.

The findings come amid growing concerns over the Conservative party’s attitude to reports of Islamophobia in a febrile wider climate, with the number of hate crimes against Muslims reported to have risen by 593% in the week after the attack on two New Zealand mosques.


Tory members' online comments deepen Islamophobia row

The Labour mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, told the Observer on Sunday that he had been repeatedly subjected to anti-Muslim abuse from the Tory party’s members and supporters.

James Cleverly, the deputy Tory chairman, has said he disagrees “deeply” with claims from within the party that it is institutionally Islamophobic. On Sunday a spokesperson told the Guardian that the party “acted swiftly, suspending members and launching immediate investigations, in sharp contrast to other parties” when shown evidence of racism.

But after dozens of members were suspended over alleged anti-Muslim comments last week, the Guardian found evidence of five more apparent members who have posted Islamophobic comments online – referring to Muslims as “cavemen” and claiming “most” of the religion’s followers are sex offenders.

The party’s investigation process will come under severe scrutiny after the disclosure that 15 councillors were reinstated despite apparently Islamophobic or racist remarks. The Guardian’s research suggested that in the majority of cases where a councillor was reprimanded for retweeting or sharing offensive content, they were later readmitted to the party. The party said that selective cases did not provide a complete picture of how complaints were dealt with.


This week, the Conservative leader of Swale borough council, Andrew Bowles, was readmitted to the party after a 13-day suspension for retweeting a post that described the far-right leader Tommy Robinson as a patriot, condemned the decision by Facebook and Instagram to ban him and urged people to retweet if they agreed.

He said he had retweeted the post because he supported Robinson’s “right to have his say” and told the Guardian he did not “have any racist or Islamophobic views”.

In June 2017, the Pendle borough council councillor Rosemary Carroll was suspended for three months for sharing a racist joke on Facebook that compared an Asian person to a dog. She claimed she had shared the post by accident. She was allowed back into the Conservative group on the council on the day of the local election count, meaning the party took control of the local authority by one seat.

Rosemary Carroll
 Rosemary Carroll shared a racist joke on social media. Photograph: PendleConservatives/Facebook
A councillor on Dover district council, Bob Frost, quit the party last year after being suspended for a third time for offensive social media posts. He was suspended in 2011 after he joked with another Facebook user about the London riots: “I can assure you that all the bunnies here are of the woodland variety rather than jungle,” he said. He later said he had been referring to “the urban jungle”.

In 2015 he was suspended for joking that he had told a Big Issue seller to “f**ck off back to Romania”. Later that year he described Saudi men as “sand peasants” in a tweet.

He was suspended again in May and told the Guardian in an email: “I have indeed now left the Conservative party as I didn’t wish to waste either mine or their time with suspension (which is apparently de rigueur nowadays when anyone claims someone has been using hurty words).” He described the situation as “a load of bollocks conjured up by a load of humourless lefties”.

The Solihull borough council councillor Jeff Potts was suspended in September after retweeting a post that said Muslims should to be deported or terrorists would “kill innocent people for generations to come”. A further retweet read: “You’ve clearly not experienced the Pakistani hospitality, having a daughter raped by men who think she’s ‘white trash’.” In November it emerged he had been readmitted to the party, though he is still sitting as an independent on the council.

Amin said his party had historically been slow in “coming to terms with the way our country had changed over the last 60s years”. “There is a problem, in my view, particularly at grassroots level, with far too many people who have absorbed anti-Muslim bigotry, because there is quite a lot of it around,” he said.

“In terms of terrorism carried out in the name of Islam – 9/11, 7/7 etc – it’s quite easy to see where these anti-Muslim ideas come from. But the party as a whole, in my view, hasn’t succeeded in getting to grips with that.”

“There is one fundamental change that is required,” Amin said. “There needs to be a more transparent process, much clearer criteria, which are published. Not just criteria for suspending people but criteria for unsuspending people.

“I personally don’t necessarily have a problem with unsuspending people who have apologised and undergone diversity training, for example. But what we need is a clear published rule book.”

 Miqdaad Versi of the Muslim Council of Britain
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 Miqdaad Versi of the Muslim Council of Britain said it seemed the party ‘wants to sweep this issue under the carpet’. Photograph: Martin Godwin/The Guardian
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A Conservative spokesman said: “Discrimination or abuse of any kind is wrong. When CCHQ has been made aware of the small number of such cases we have acted swiftly, suspending members and launching immediate investigations, in sharp contrast to other parties.

“Our complaints process is rightly a confidential one but there are a wide range of sanctions to challenge and change behaviour, including conditions to undertake training, a period of suspension and expulsion, and these are applied on a case-by-case basis.”

Not all complaints are made to CCHQ (Conservative Campaign Headquarters), and some cases are handled locally.

Other examples of councillors readmitted to the party include the Calderdale councillor Mike Payne, who was suspended after it emerged he had posted an article entitled “France slashes benefits to Muslim parasites by 83%” on his Facebook and Twitter accounts in 2013 before he was a councillor. He has since been reinstated.


Contact the Guardian securely
 Read more
The article said France was “no longer able to hold back the crowd of Muslim invaders, many of whom do not want to integrate into the social and economic life of their new home country, and are content to live off the state and breed like rabbits”.

Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “It’s clear to me that the party wants to sweep this issue under the carpet and it cares more about the public image than stopping racism have a hold in the party.”

“At the very minimum they need to have an independent person look at this. I don’t think people really have trust that the chair of the party has any handle on the situation whatsoever.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/19/tory-aberdeen-candidate-ryan-houghton-suspended-holocaust-tweets

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-tory-candidate-suspended-islamophobia-racism-flora-scarabello-a9220406.html

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-07/three-tory-candidates-face-party-probe-over-anti-semitism-allegations/



Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 07:58:45 PM
This is getting rather dull now. It’s good to see that you and MIT actually do have something in common though.


"It’s good to see that you and MIT actually do have something in common though."

Say what???!

 ^*&&


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 08:00:45 PM

"It’s good to see that you and MIT actually do have something in common though."

Say what???!

 ^*&&
Don’t worry, we don’t really.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 08:11:29 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/24/tory-islamophobia-row-15-suspended-councillors-quietly-reinstated?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tory Islamophobia row: 15 suspended councillors quietly reinstated
 
Guardian investigation finds suspensions lifted despite apparent Islamophobia or racism
Tory members’ online comments deepen Islamophobia row
Frances Perraudin and Simon Murphy
Sun 24 Mar 2019 18.00 GMT Last modified on Fri 5 Apr 2019 09.01 BST

 Cllr Andrew Bowles was readmitted to the party after a 13-day suspension for retweeting a post describing the far-right leader Tommy Robinson as a patriot. Photograph: KMG/SWNS
More than a dozen Conservative councillors who were suspended over posting Islamophobic or racist content online – with some describing Saudis as “sand peasants” and sharing material comparing Asian people to dogs – have had their membership quietly reinstated, a Guardian investigation has found.

The chairman of the Conservative Muslim Forum, Mohammed Amin, called on the party to publish a set of formal disciplinary processes after the Guardian found 15 examples of politicians who posted content that was deemed objectionable.

The findings come amid growing concerns over the Conservative party’s attitude to reports of Islamophobia in a febrile wider climate, with the number of hate crimes against Muslims reported to have risen by 593% in the week after the attack on two New Zealand mosques.


Tory members' online comments deepen Islamophobia row

The Labour mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, told the Observer on Sunday that he had been repeatedly subjected to anti-Muslim abuse from the Tory party’s members and supporters.

James Cleverly, the deputy Tory chairman, has said he disagrees “deeply” with claims from within the party that it is institutionally Islamophobic. On Sunday a spokesperson told the Guardian that the party “acted swiftly, suspending members and launching immediate investigations, in sharp contrast to other parties” when shown evidence of racism.

But after dozens of members were suspended over alleged anti-Muslim comments last week, the Guardian found evidence of five more apparent members who have posted Islamophobic comments online – referring to Muslims as “cavemen” and claiming “most” of the religion’s followers are sex offenders.

The party’s investigation process will come under severe scrutiny after the disclosure that 15 councillors were reinstated despite apparently Islamophobic or racist remarks. The Guardian’s research suggested that in the majority of cases where a councillor was reprimanded for retweeting or sharing offensive content, they were later readmitted to the party. The party said that selective cases did not provide a complete picture of how complaints were dealt with.


This week, the Conservative leader of Swale borough council, Andrew Bowles, was readmitted to the party after a 13-day suspension for retweeting a post that described the far-right leader Tommy Robinson as a patriot, condemned the decision by Facebook and Instagram to ban him and urged people to retweet if they agreed.

He said he had retweeted the post because he supported Robinson’s “right to have his say” and told the Guardian he did not “have any racist or Islamophobic views”.

In June 2017, the Pendle borough council councillor Rosemary Carroll was suspended for three months for sharing a racist joke on Facebook that compared an Asian person to a dog. She claimed she had shared the post by accident. She was allowed back into the Conservative group on the council on the day of the local election count, meaning the party took control of the local authority by one seat.

Rosemary Carroll
 Rosemary Carroll shared a racist joke on social media. Photograph: PendleConservatives/Facebook
A councillor on Dover district council, Bob Frost, quit the party last year after being suspended for a third time for offensive social media posts. He was suspended in 2011 after he joked with another Facebook user about the London riots: “I can assure you that all the bunnies here are of the woodland variety rather than jungle,” he said. He later said he had been referring to “the urban jungle”.

In 2015 he was suspended for joking that he had told a Big Issue seller to “f**ck off back to Romania”. Later that year he described Saudi men as “sand peasants” in a tweet.

He was suspended again in May and told the Guardian in an email: “I have indeed now left the Conservative party as I didn’t wish to waste either mine or their time with suspension (which is apparently de rigueur nowadays when anyone claims someone has been using hurty words).” He described the situation as “a load of bollocks conjured up by a load of humourless lefties”.

The Solihull borough council councillor Jeff Potts was suspended in September after retweeting a post that said Muslims should to be deported or terrorists would “kill innocent people for generations to come”. A further retweet read: “You’ve clearly not experienced the Pakistani hospitality, having a daughter raped by men who think she’s ‘white trash’.” In November it emerged he had been readmitted to the party, though he is still sitting as an independent on the council.

Amin said his party had historically been slow in “coming to terms with the way our country had changed over the last 60s years”. “There is a problem, in my view, particularly at grassroots level, with far too many people who have absorbed anti-Muslim bigotry, because there is quite a lot of it around,” he said.

“In terms of terrorism carried out in the name of Islam – 9/11, 7/7 etc – it’s quite easy to see where these anti-Muslim ideas come from. But the party as a whole, in my view, hasn’t succeeded in getting to grips with that.”

“There is one fundamental change that is required,” Amin said. “There needs to be a more transparent process, much clearer criteria, which are published. Not just criteria for suspending people but criteria for unsuspending people.

“I personally don’t necessarily have a problem with unsuspending people who have apologised and undergone diversity training, for example. But what we need is a clear published rule book.”

 Miqdaad Versi of the Muslim Council of Britain
Facebook Twitter Pinterest
 Miqdaad Versi of the Muslim Council of Britain said it seemed the party ‘wants to sweep this issue under the carpet’. Photograph: Martin Godwin/The Guardian
Advertisement

A Conservative spokesman said: “Discrimination or abuse of any kind is wrong. When CCHQ has been made aware of the small number of such cases we have acted swiftly, suspending members and launching immediate investigations, in sharp contrast to other parties.

“Our complaints process is rightly a confidential one but there are a wide range of sanctions to challenge and change behaviour, including conditions to undertake training, a period of suspension and expulsion, and these are applied on a case-by-case basis.”

Not all complaints are made to CCHQ (Conservative Campaign Headquarters), and some cases are handled locally.

Other examples of councillors readmitted to the party include the Calderdale councillor Mike Payne, who was suspended after it emerged he had posted an article entitled “France slashes benefits to Muslim parasites by 83%” on his Facebook and Twitter accounts in 2013 before he was a councillor. He has since been reinstated.


Contact the Guardian securely
 Read more
The article said France was “no longer able to hold back the crowd of Muslim invaders, many of whom do not want to integrate into the social and economic life of their new home country, and are content to live off the state and breed like rabbits”.

Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “It’s clear to me that the party wants to sweep this issue under the carpet and it cares more about the public image than stopping racism have a hold in the party.”

“At the very minimum they need to have an independent person look at this. I don’t think people really have trust that the chair of the party has any handle on the situation whatsoever.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/19/tory-aberdeen-candidate-ryan-houghton-suspended-holocaust-tweets

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-tory-candidate-suspended-islamophobia-racism-flora-scarabello-a9220406.html

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-07/three-tory-candidates-face-party-probe-over-anti-semitism-allegations/

Islamophobia and anti-Semite taken totally out of context in most cases IMO.  It is all about feelings BEING HURT ON OTHERS BEHALF and nothing to do about reporting situations/problems and issues. I know of no one who has actual phobia of Islam- made up word!  I know many including many muslims who have issues with certain sections of muslim population.  We won't talk about forced marriages-honour killings- acid punishments, FGM and grooming gangs drugging and pimping underage 'white sluts' (not my words) for sex.

Spare me the racist chants I get it already and don't care.

The Muslim Council of Britain?  do you know these people and their affiliations ?  Perhaps the Guardian can dig deeper into their 'business'.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 08:20:39 PM
Islamophobia and anti-Semite taken totally out of context in most cases IMO.  It is all about feelings BEING HURT ON OTHERS BEHALF and nothing to do about reporting situations/problems and issues. I know of no one who has actual phobia of Islam- made up word!  I know many including many muslims who have issues with certain sections of muslim population.  We won't talk about forced marriages-honour killings- acid punishments, FGM and grooming gangs drugging and pimping underage 'white sluts' (not my words) for sex.

Spare me the racist chants I get it already and don't care.

The Muslim Council of Britain?  do you know these people and their affiliations ?  Perhaps the Guardian can dig deeper into their 'business'.

It’s okay to be blasé about racism when you aren’t the victim.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 08:22:26 PM
It’s okay to be blasé about racism when you aren’t the victim.
No it’s not.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 08:31:03 PM
It’s okay to be blasé about racism when you aren’t the victim.

My Husband is from Afghanistan. His whole family bar one brother was slaughtered/tortured by the taliban- some sought asylum here!

 What do you want to teach me about Muslims having to put up with Islamophobia exactly? I have already mentioned many victims who are Muslims of certain REAL crimes committed by Muslims.
Name calling is pathetic, but hardly  warrants being classed as a criminal. FGS let's keep it real.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 08:32:44 PM
No it’s not.

For the hard of thinking shall in substitute easy for okay ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 08:37:04 PM
For the hard of thinking shall in substitute easy for okay ?
Do what you like you rude lady.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 08:42:44 PM
My Husband is from Afghanistan. His whole family bar one brother was slaughtered/tortured by the taliban- some sought asylum here!

 What do you want to teach me about Muslims having to put up with Islamophobia exactly? I have already mentioned many victims who are Muslims of certain REAL crimes committed by Muslims.
Name calling is pathetic, but hardly  warrants being classed as a criminal. FGS let's keep it real.

I’m not sure the point you are making ? Black people commit crimes against black people, Chinese people commit crimes against Chinese people....and ? Should we just turn a blind eye to the real, pernicious spread of racism in this country because their own race do worse to each other ?

I would hate for your husband or any of his relations after suffering so horrifically in their homeland to be faced with the same cruelty and violence here simply because of their race, religion or nationality.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 08:44:35 PM
Do what you like you rude lady.

I’m not rude and unless you really are intellectually challenged it was abundantly clear what I meant....MIT certainly knew.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 08:58:07 PM
I’m not rude and unless you really are intellectually challenged it was abundantly clear what I meant....MIT certainly knew.
Yup I’m definitely intellectually challenged, as well as deluded and all the other insults you want to throw at me.  I was simply pointing out that we shouldn’t be blase about racism, and it’s interesting that you are attacking me for saying so.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 09:05:01 PM
Yup I’m definitely intellectually challenged, as well as deluded and all the other insults you want to throw at me.  I was simply pointing out that we shouldn’t be blase about racism, and it’s interesting that you are attacking me for saying so.

I’m not attacking you...I was merely pointing out that my meaning was clear....except to you it would seem.

You know what Alfie....let’s just rejoice in a meeting of minds...for once.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 09:07:41 PM
I’m not attacking you...I was merely pointing out that my meaning was clear....except to you it would seem.

You know what Alfie....let’s just rejoice in a meeting of minds...for once.
Nah..  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 09:13:13 PM
Nah..  *&^^&

Then I’ll rejoice. People agreeing that racism is bad can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 09:13:39 PM
I’m not sure the point you are making ? Black people commit crimes against black people, Chinese people commit crimes against Chinese people....and ? Should we just turn a blind eye to the real, pernicious spread of racism in this country because their own race do worse to each other ?

I would hate for your husband or any of his relations after suffering so horrifically in their homeland to be faced with the same cruelty and violence here simply because of their race, religion or nationality.

The point I am making is very clear.  I am challenging what is racism exactly?  is it white people not liking some black people or  black people not liking Muslims? can you be specific about racism- an example perhaps?

 I love Michael Jackson's and black soul music I dislike Diane Abbot , does this make me a racist or if I said I hate all black/chinese people does that make me a racist?

any example will do...



Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 09:29:51 PM
The point I am making is very clear.  I am challenging what is racism exactly?  is it white people not liking some black people or  black people not liking Muslims? can you be specific about racism- an example perhaps?

 I love Michael Jackson's and black soul music I dislike Diane Abbot , does this make me a racist or if I said I hate all black/chinese people does that make me a racist?

any example will do...
Yes, if you said you hated all black or chinese people that makes you a racist, definitely.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
The point I am making is very clear.  I am challenging what is racism exactly?  is it white people not liking some black people or  black people not liking Muslims? can you be specific about racism- an example perhaps?

 I love Michael Jackson's and black soul music I dislike Diane Abbot , does this make me a racist or if I said I hate all black/chinese people does that make me a racist?

any example will do...

Racism is a belief in the superiority of one race over another resulting in discrimination or prejudice....and it exists in all races.

Example ? Diane Abbot is rubbish at her job because she can’t count...that wouldn’t be racist but if you said Diane Abbot is rubbish at her job because all black people are stupid...that would be...and if you said ‘ I hate all black/Chinese people ‘ I’m not sure how it could be perceived to be anything else but racist.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 09:38:38 PM
Yes, if you said you hated all black or chinese people that makes you a racist, definitely.

Oh Good then I am not a racist! whooha!  but, what if I say  I don't like Diane Abbot does that make me racist (probably in some sections of the community I guess).  what sayeth you?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 09:44:00 PM
Oh Good then I am not a racist! whooha!  but, what if I say  I don't like Diane Abbot does that make me racist (probably in some sections of the community I guess).  what sayeth you?
Depends on your reasons for not liking her I guess. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 09:54:10 PM
I do not like her due to her racism! lol

I also find her pseudo snobbery a bit much. She joined a party which removed assisted places at private schools for bright children and sent her own son to a private school as she didn't want him going to a comprehensive school with other  children predominately of colour. So effectively the tax payers paid for her son.  I don't like a lot of white and Asian MP's as well for similar reasons. I just mentioned her as an example.

I seem to walk on a different road to many - I abhor any kind of discrimination positive or negative- it is diversive, and not diversity. It has nothing to do with equality at all - which some people try and sell.


I refuse to see colour/creed/race/disability in people I meet. I only see fellow humans -some I like and some I don't- some people do not like that kind of thinking...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 04, 2020, 09:58:59 PM
Yes, if you said you hated all black or chinese people that makes you a racist, definitely.

What if you hated all Black Chinese people?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 10:11:51 PM
I do not like her due to her racism! lol

I also find her pseudo snobbery a bit much. She joined a party which removed assisted places at private schools for bright children and sent her own son to a private school as she didn't want him going to a comprehensive school with other  children predominately of colour. So effectively the tax payers paid for her son.  I don't like a lot of white and Asian MP's as well for similar reasons. I just mentioned her as an example.

I seem to walk on a different road to many - I abhor any kind of discrimination positive or negative- it is diversive, and not diversity. It has nothing to do with equality at all - which some people try and sell.


I refuse to see colour/creed/race/disability in people I meet. I only see fellow humans -some I like and some I don't- some people do not like that kind of thinking...

What do you mean by ‘positive discrimination’ ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 04, 2020, 10:20:27 PM
I do not like her due to her racism! lol

I also find her pseudo snobbery a bit much. She joined a party which removed assisted places at private schools for bright children and sent her own son to a private school as she didn't want him going to a comprehensive school with other  children predominately of colour. So effectively the tax payers paid for her son.  I don't like a lot of white and Asian MP's as well for similar reasons. I just mentioned her as an example.

I seem to walk on a different road to many - I abhor any kind of discrimination positive or negative- it is diversive, and not diversity. It has nothing to do with equality at all - which some people try and sell.


I refuse to see colour/creed/race/disability in people I meet. I only see fellow humans -some I like and some I don't- some people do not like that kind of thinking...
she is a ghastly hypocrite as so many of these socialist types are.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 10:30:20 PM
What do you mean by ‘positive discrimination’ ?

Giving people jobs purely based on race/gender etc. mostly in the public sector to meet 'targets'.

People are saying LABOUR PARTY should have a female leader. Should one be GIVEN the job just because she is a woman?  I don't think so.

when two Asian men applied for a job- they both had similar skills and attributes- one got the job based on his 'personality and skills. no problem with that. That was won fair and square. but if a white/black man went up against the Asian guy it could quite easily be the Asian or Black man if quotas for either have to be met.  That is discrimination.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 10:37:41 PM
Giving people jobs purely based on race/gender etc. mostly in the public sector to meet 'targets'.

People are saying LABOUR PARTY should have a female leader. Should one be GIVEN the job just because she is a woman?  I don't think so.

when two Asian men applied for a job- they both had similar skills and attributes- one got the job based on his 'personality and skills. no problem with that. That was won fair and square. but if a white/black man went up against the Asian guy it could quite easily be the Asian or Black man if quotas for either have to be met.  That is discrimination.

That is illegal.


Positive discrimination is generally unlawful in the UK. For example, an employer recruiting a person because he or she has a relevant protected characteristic rather than because he or she is the best candidate would be committing discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. It is also unlawful to set quotas to recruit or promote a specific number or proportion of people with a particular protected characteristic.
There are limited circumstances in which it is lawful to require a job applicant or worker to have a particular protected characteristic, for example where an occupational requirement applies. Equality and Human Rights Commission guidance gives the example of a women’s refuge requiring all members of staff to be women.
Positive discrimination, should be distinguished from positive action, which is lawful.


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 04, 2020, 10:45:38 PM
That is illegal.


Positive discrimination is generally unlawful in the UK. For example, an employer recruiting a person because he or she has a relevant protected characteristic rather than because he or she is the best candidate would be committing discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. It is also unlawful to set quotas to recruit or promote a specific number or proportion of people with a particular protected characteristic.
There are limited circumstances in which it is lawful to require a job applicant or worker to have a particular protected characteristic, for example where an occupational requirement applies. Equality and Human Rights Commission guidance gives the example of a women’s refuge requiring all members of staff to be women.
Positive discrimination, should be distinguished from positive action, which is lawful.

No Faith. That is where you are wrong. it is practiced especially within the police and local government/not to mention TV.  Not openly done of-course.  We now have the cultural appropriate sham- another form of discrimination.

I agree with the selection based on gender issues. men and women should have male /female support workers for certain  health/social issues. That is different completely.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 04, 2020, 10:56:42 PM
No Faith. That is where you are wrong. it is practiced especially within the police and local government/not to mention TV.  Not openly done of-course.  We now have the cultural appropriate sham- another form of discrimination.

I agree with the selection based on gender issues. men and women should have male /female support workers for certain  health/social issues. That is different completely.

But it is still illegal.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 05, 2020, 11:10:33 PM
If both Jewish and Muslim representatives have condemned this MPs contact with the far right – why has he not been censured?
05
Wednesday
Feb 2020

Both the Muslim Council of Britain and the Board of Deputies of British Jews have condemned Daniel Kawczynski for attending a conference with far-right European leaders.

But the Conservative government has said nothing.

What does that say about the politics of your cuddly, lovable, bumbling ol’ Boris Johnson?


 
Doesn’t it suggest that his own leanings are a little further to the right than we have been led to believe?

(That’s for readers who aren’t on benefits, of course. They all know the score.)

A Tory MP has defended his decision to speak at a conference in Rome alongside “some of Europe’s most notorious far-right politicians”.
Daniel Kawczynski has been condemned by the Board of Deputies of British Jews for attending the National Conservatism conference in Rome alongside Hungary’s far-right prime minister Viktor Orban.
Also speaking at the conference was Ryszard Legutko, the Polish Law and Justice MEP who has described homophobia as a “totally fictitious problem”
Misdaad Versie, a spokesperson for the Muslim Council of Britain also criticised Mr Kawczynski – as well as the Tory Chief Whip, whom the MP claims he informed about the conference ahead of time.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
If both Jewish and Muslim representatives have condemned this MPs contact with the far right – why has he not been censured?
05
Wednesday
Feb 2020

Both the Muslim Council of Britain and the Board of Deputies of British Jews have condemned Daniel Kawczynski for attending a conference with far-right European leaders.

But the Conservative government has said nothing.

What does that say about the politics of your cuddly, lovable, bumbling ol’ Boris Johnson?


 
Doesn’t it suggest that his own leanings are a little further to the right than we have been led to believe?

(That’s for readers who aren’t on benefits, of course. They all know the score.)

A Tory MP has defended his decision to speak at a conference in Rome alongside “some of Europe’s most notorious far-right politicians”.
Daniel Kawczynski has been condemned by the Board of Deputies of British Jews for attending the National Conservatism conference in Rome alongside Hungary’s far-right prime minister Viktor Orban.
Also speaking at the conference was Ryszard Legutko, the Polish Law and Justice MEP who has described homophobia as a “totally fictitious problem”
Misdaad Versie, a spokesperson for the Muslim Council of Britain also criticised Mr Kawczynski – as well as the Tory Chief Whip, whom the MP claims he informed about the conference ahead of time.

Jewish and Muslim representatives have condemned this MPs contact with the far right – why has he not been censured?
Why should they decide who has free speech and who hasn't- why should that power be handed over to them- considering they and their  family history would show they  were 'saved' by tyranny themselves to come to a' free country'.

So,

He is entitled to his point of view no matter how much you or I dislike it.

WE all are.

 And we should stop with the shoving people into them and us boxes. That belongs in the Nazi and Stalin era of history in Europe. I find it a bit much with all this: no debate and not allowing free speech an abomination and an attack on my and fellow citizens  rights.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 02:29:38 PM
Jewish and Muslim representatives have condemned this MPs contact with the far right – why has he not been censured?
Why should they decide who has free speech and who hasn't- why should that power be handed over to them- considering they and their  family history would show they  were 'saved' by tyranny themselves to come to a' free country'.

So,

He is entitled to his point of view no matter how much you or I dislike it.

WE all are.

 And we should stop with the shoving people into them and us boxes. That belongs in the Nazi and Stalin era of history in Europe. I find it a bit much with all this: no debate and not allowing free speech an abomination and an attack on my and fellow citizens  rights.

There is no freedom of speech without responsibility and when hate speech leads to the desensitising of a population and allows communities to be vilified then it must be called out for what it is. Fascism breeds when the ‘them and us’ rhetoric is employed.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 02:49:42 PM
There is no freedom of speech without responsibility and when hate speech leads to the desensitising of a population and allows communities to be vilified then it must be called out for what it is. Fascism breeds when the ‘them and us’ rhetoric is employed.



You have changed the conversation. No one mentioned
 hate speech. But just so you know   there is a them and us situation and always will be throughout humanity.

Fascism begins with censorship!

Not allowing this - not allowing that - only saying this- and only saying that.

Ask any German jew who has survived -how the mass murders were initiated.

You will be told- it started with the little things...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 02:55:22 PM


You have changed the conversation. No one mentioned
 hate speech. But just so you know   there is a them and us situation and always will be throughout humanity.

Fascism begins with censorship!

Not allowing this - not allowing that - only saying this- and only saying that.

Ask any German jew who has survived -how the mass murders were initiated.

You will be told- it started with the little things...

You didn’t mention hate speech but isn’t that really what we’re talking about ?


And yes I agree, it did start with the little things.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 03:16:26 PM
As far as I’m aware it’s not a crime to attend a conference of politicians including democratically elected heads of government who have far right views.  If and until it is I don’t really see why this politician deserves condemnation from his party leader.  I’m sure RLB would receive no condemnation from Jeremy Corbyn if she entertained Hamas and Hezbollah representatives at her office (even though these are officially proscribed organisations).
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
As far as I’m aware it’s not a crime to attend a conference of politicians including democratically elected heads of government who have far right views.  If and until it is I don’t really see why this politician deserves condemnation from his party leader.  I’m sure RLB would receive no condemnation from Jeremy Corbyn if she entertained Hamas and Hezbollah representatives at her office (even though these are officially proscribed organisations).

So no politician should be circumspect in who they associate with ? Is that your opinion ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 03:33:07 PM
You didn’t mention hate speech but isn’t that really what we’re talking about ?


And yes I agree, it did start with the little things.

No faith. That conference was not about' hate speech'- unless we all missed something. I shall define my definition of hate speech, and you can define yours in case we are on a wrong conversation here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQLpG5b18pk

Calling people to take arms against others is  hate speech- inciting hatred. 

Discussing lack of integration of illegal and legal migrants is NOT hate speech. and neither is challenging behaviors which is against the law for  the majority of this country.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 03:48:33 PM
So no politician should be circumspect in who they associate with ? Is that your opinion ?
In my view associating with proscribed organisations is a no-no and deserves to be called out.  Associating with the PM of Hungary or the president of the USA should not result in a rebuke from your party leader, no.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 04:45:51 PM
No faith. That conference was not about' hate speech'- unless we all missed something. I shall define my definition of hate speech, and you can define yours in case we are on a wrong conversation here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQLpG5b18pk

Calling people to take arms against others is  hate speech- inciting hatred. 

Discussing lack of integration of illegal and legal migrants is NOT hate speech. and neither is challenging behaviors which is against the law for  the majority of this country.

I’m not disagreeing.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 04:51:15 PM
In my view associating with proscribed organisations is a no-no and deserves to be called out.  Associating with the PM of Hungary or the president of the USA should not result in a rebuke from your party leader, no.

Margaret Thatcher And Tony Blair’s governments ‘associated’ with the IRA to bring about peace.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 04:57:11 PM
Margaret Thatcher And Tony Blair’s governments ‘associated’ with the IRA to bring about peace.
They didn’t associate with them by bigging them up, calling them friends and laying wreaths for their fallen “heroes”. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
They didn’t associate with them by bigging them up, calling them friends and laying wreaths for their fallen “heroes”.

Begging them up ? When did Corbyn ‘big up’ any terrorist group ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 05:04:39 PM
Begging them up ? When did Corbyn ‘big up’ any terrorist group ?
by inviting them to tea, calling them friends and laying wreaths for their dead.  For a start. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
They didn’t associate with them by bigging them up, calling them friends and laying wreaths for their fallen “heroes”.


No, Tony certainly didn't do that 'coughs'

He forgave them all sins, started a which hunt in the army and turned a blind eye to the continued drug cartels, knee capping,and other 'minor' offenses committed against Irish Roman Catholics...

I do agree that some soldiers under their own violation who killed innocent people within skirmishes should  be held accountable, and like the pardoned IRA should be forgiven. But the witch hunt goes on and on  and on...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 05:17:19 PM
by inviting them to tea, calling them friends and laying wreaths for their dead.  For a start.

You know of all the accusations thrown at Corbyn the ‘friends’ one displays most clearly the writers lack of sophistication.

BTW while you’re here why not pop over to the Rachel Riley thread and leave your view. Is Rosen one of those antisemitic jews who deny the Holocaust, even though either they or their families were directly affected or is Rachel Riley simply jumping on the antisemitism bandwagon as she knows it plays well with the masses ?

Love her ‘I don’t look like a typical Jew’ remark during her Channel 4 interview. Talk about hoisted by her own petard !
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 05:29:54 PM
You know of all the accusations thrown at Corbyn the ‘friends’ one displays most clearly the writers lack of sophistication.

BTW while you’re here why not pop over to the Rachel Riley thread and leave your view. Is Rosen one of those antisemitic jews who deny the Holocaust, even though either they or their families were directly affected or is Rachel Riley simply jumping on the antisemitism bandwagon as she knows it plays well with the masses ?

Love her ‘I don’t look like a typical Jew’ remark during her Channel 4 interview. Talk about hoisted by her own petard !

She is indeed jumping on a few band wagons going around and that quote' I don’t look like a typical Jew' is unbelievable!  a real put down. own goal IMO
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
You know of all the accusations thrown at Corbyn the ‘friends’ one displays most clearly the writers lack of sophistication.

BTW while you’re here why not pop over to the Rachel Riley thread and leave your view. Is Rosen one of those antisemitic jews who deny the Holocaust, even though either they or their families were directly affected or is Rachel Riley simply jumping on the antisemitism bandwagon as she knows it plays well with the masses ?

Love her ‘I don’t look like a typical Jew’ remark during her Channel 4 interview. Talk about hoisted by her own petard !
I really have no idea what you’re on about.  Who is Rachel Riley?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 06:38:26 PM
I really have no idea what you’re on about.  Who is Rachel Riley?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11219.0
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
I really have no idea what you’re on about.  Who is Rachel Riley?

Some one who doesn't look like a typical jew- by her own admission.

She is on Twatter bleating on about anti semites... READ Faiths link for more info.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 06:41:18 PM
Some one who doesn't look like a typical jew- by her own admission.

She is on Twatter bleating on about anti semites... READ Faiths link for more info.

It appears the usual suspects have lost interest in antisemitism now they can’t use it as a stick to beat Corbyn with.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 07:19:15 PM
It appears the usual suspects have lost interest in antisemitism now they can’t use it as a stick to beat Corbyn with.

Yeah.

I see some of his own are turning on him for their own  self interest ambitions... Politics is a rat infested quagmire. IMO
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
Yeah.

I see some of his own are turning on him for their own  self interest ambitions... Politics is a rat infested quagmire. IMO

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 08:00:28 PM
Some one who doesn't look like a typical jew- by her own admission.

She is on Twatter bleating on about anti semites... READ Faiths link for more info.
Why would I give a toss about her and what she has to say?  Is she standing as leader of the Labour Party?  I’m confused as to why this is remotely relevant to politics in the UK. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 08:40:22 PM
Why would I give a toss about her and what she has to say?  Is she standing as leader of the Labour Party?  I’m confused as to why this is remotely relevant to politics in the UK.

It’s an example of how easy it is to label someone an antisemite without any evidence.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 08:42:35 PM
It’s an example of how easy it is to label someone an antisemite without any evidence.

Or they offer up their evidence as 'feelings' rather than hard core evidence.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 08:55:41 PM
It’s an example of how easy it is to label someone an antisemite without any evidence.
So what?   there’s plenty of evidence of antisemitism in the labour party, that’s why they are currently being investigated.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 09:16:57 PM
So what?   there’s plenty of evidence of antisemitism in the labour party, that’s why they are currently being investigated.

There has even claims made of antisemitism in the Labour Party, that’s why they are currently being investigated.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2020, 10:45:40 PM
There has even claims made of antisemitism in the Labour Party, that’s why they are currently being investigated.
Claims in the form of sworn testimony is evidence, or do you now not class that as evidence?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 09, 2020, 11:23:17 PM
Claims in the form of sworn testimony is evidence, or do you now not class that as evidence?

Evidence is not proof as you well know. They are merely claims until investigated.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 10, 2020, 07:09:16 AM
Evidence is not proof as you well know. They are merely claims until investigated.
Of course I know that, but for some reason you took exception to my use of the word “evidence” and replaced it with “claims”.  It seems you are intent in rewriting everything I write to suit your own agenda. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 10, 2020, 10:15:55 AM
Of course I know that, but for some reason you took exception to my use of the word “evidence” and replaced it with “claims”.  It seems you are intent in rewriting everything I write to suit your own agenda.

Took exception ? They both mean the same, why would I take exception?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 10, 2020, 05:38:23 PM
Took exception ? They both mean the same, why would I take exception?
Why did you copy my post and change the word “evidence” to “claims” then?  Kindly explain.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 10, 2020, 06:24:53 PM
Why did you copy my post and change the word “evidence” to “claims” then?  Kindly explain.

Not doing this again.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 10, 2020, 06:35:54 PM
Not doing this again.
you haven’t explained at all.  You took the trouble to change my post by one word and then claimed both words mean the same anyway, so why bother, unless you actually thought that my use of the word “evidence” was incorrect in the first place?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 11, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2020/02/10/jamaica-deportation-will-the-tories-go-ahead-after-appeal-court-decision/
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 11, 2020, 05:42:37 PM
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2020/02/10/jamaica-deportation-will-the-tories-go-ahead-after-appeal-court-decision/
this kind of thing is popular with the electorate unfortunately.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 11, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
this kind of thing is popular with the electorate unfortunately.

What is wrong with this country ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 11, 2020, 08:58:27 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2020/feb/11/steve-bell-jamaica-deportation-flights-cartoon?CMP=share_btn_fb
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 11, 2020, 09:09:52 PM
What is wrong with this country ?
We’ve always been conservative with a small c, that’s why real socialism will never float.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 11, 2020, 11:01:09 PM
We’ve always been conservative with a small c, that’s why real socialism will never float.

Yes, there is and has always been something of the masochist in the souls of the British. They’ve been raised to not hope for any better than fate has bequeathed them.....and that’s exactly what they’ve always settled for.....better the devil and all that !
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2020, 07:10:13 AM
Yes, there is and has always been something of the masochist in the souls of the British. They’ve been raised to not hope for any better than fate has bequeathed them.....and that’s exactly what they’ve always settled for.....better the devil and all that !
I really don’t think it’s that, I think they realise that socialism is a fairy tale that doesn’t work.  They also have a keenly developed sense of natinal pride, justice,  right and wrong and retribution which is why deporting criminals and terrorists is always going to sit well with the majority.  Give em half a chance and they’d be hanging remainers from lamposts too!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 12, 2020, 01:00:32 PM
I really don’t think it’s that, I think they realise that socialism is a fairy tale that doesn’t work.  They also have a keenly developed sense of natinal pride, justice,  right and wrong and retribution which is why deporting criminals and terrorists is always going to sit well with the majority.  Give em half a chance and they’d be hanging remainers from lamposts too!

The Labour Party was offering democratic socialism, a system that is embraced by many other countries including Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Great Britain, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand....countries who also believe in justice, the rule of law etc etc etc. This myth that they were offering communism, or something close to it, red in tooth and claw, is merely a myth peddled by the print media to people who don’t understand the difference.

I noticed you didn’t include tolerance in your list of British qualities....no wonder when we see the rise of racist attacks towards Chinese people simply because of the coronavirus and also the rise of attacks on Eastern European’s since the 2016 referendum.

As to deporting criminals...like the British nationals deported just yesterday ? BTW where did it say in Labour’s manifesto that they would not extradite terrorists to their countries of origin?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2020, 08:51:34 PM
The Labour Party was offering democratic socialism, a system that is embraced by many other countries including Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Great Britain, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand....countries who also believe in justice, the rule of law etc etc etc. This myth that they were offering communism, or something close to it, red in tooth and claw, is merely a myth peddled by the print media to people who don’t understand the difference.

I noticed you didn’t include tolerance in your list of British qualities....no wonder when we see the rise of racist attacks towards Chinese people simply because of the coronavirus and also the rise of attacks on Eastern European’s since the 2016 referendum.

As to deporting criminals...like the British nationals deported just yesterday ? BTW where did it say in Labour’s manifesto that they would not extradite terrorists to their countries of origin?
I think when you cosy up to known terrorist organisations and brandish Mao’s Little Red Book in Parliament and have a history of supporting republicanism I think you can’t really blame people for having supicions about the brand of socialism on offer.  It’s never worked in this country before why would Corbyn’s brand have been any better?  I think the British are pretty tolerant actually, especially when compared to many of the socialist countries on your list, they’re just not very tolerant of criminals especially ones that are perceived to have been treated leniently by the justice system.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 12, 2020, 10:54:28 PM
I think when you cosy up to known terrorist organisations and brandish Mao’s Little Red Book in Parliament and have a history of republicanism I think you can’t really blame people for having supicions about the brand of socialism on offer.  It’s never worked in this country before why would Corbyn’s brand have been any better?  I think the British are pretty tolerant actually, especially when compared to many of the socialist countries on your list, they’re just not very tolerant of criminals especially ones that are perceived to have been treated leniently by the justice system.

I’d be interested to know what in Labour’s manifesto you don’t think the public would be interested in ? Re-nationalisation of the railways ? The new Green Deal ? The scrapping of zero hours contracts or the despised UC ? Your thoughts ?

Whether socialist or capitalism I can’t think of one country whose people are tolerant of criminals being treated leniently by their justice system. Care to expand ?

As to Britain being a tolerant country https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/the-uk-has-a-long-way-to-go-before-becoming-a-tolerant-multicultural-society-a7196021.html
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2020, 10:59:31 PM
Proof that Britain is one of the least racist countries in Europe
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/jaxt/blogposts/piblogpost005.html
Look at little ol’ Portugal though!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2020, 11:09:44 PM
I’d be interested to know what in Labour’s manifesto you don’t think the public would be interested in ? Re-nationalisation of the railways ? The new Green Deal ? The scrapping of zero hours contracts or the despised UC ? Your thoughts ?

Whether socialist or capitalism I can’t think of one country whose people are tolerant of criminals being treated leniently by their justice system. Care to expand ?

As to Britain being a tolerant country https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/the-uk-has-a-long-way-to-go-before-becoming-a-tolerant-multicultural-society-a7196021.html
If Labour’s manifesto was so doggone popular you’d have to ask yourself why everyone didn’t vote for it.  Perhaps it boils down to a trust issue with the leadership to deliver their promises?  Just a thought.  No one likes criminals being treated leniently, apart of course from bleeding heart liberals who believe in criminals only serving half their sentences, in ISIS brides being flown home from the middle east to be rehabilitated and given a second chance,  that sort of thing.  Ask most people if foreign born drug dealers and rapists should be deported and I would imagine most Brits would say yes in a second. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 12, 2020, 11:33:10 PM
If Labour’s manifesto was so doggone popular you’d have to ask yourself why everyone didn’t vote for it.  Perhaps it boils down to a trust issue with the leadership to deliver their promises?  Just a thought.  No one likes criminals being treated leniently, apart of course from bleeding heart liberals who believe in criminals only serving half their sentences, in ISIS brides being flown home from the middle east to be rehabilitated and given a second chance,  that sort of thing.  Ask most people if foreign born drug dealers and rapists should be deported and I would imagine most Brits would say yes in a second.

I’m sorry but exactly what policy of Labour’s ‘socialist’ manifesto didn’t the public like ?

The last two terror attacks where perpetrated after 10 years of Tory rule. They can now bring in emergency legislation to deal with the early release of terrorist prisoners so why not in the last 10 years ? Further Nazir Afzal warned that the country needed a proper deradicalisation programme but was told by Johnson that there was not enough money.

I’ve always found it very strange that while it is accepted that the poor white girls of 13, 14, 15 were groomed by older men during the Oxford, Rotherham scandals yet no such sympathy is given to the 15 year old Muslim girl groomed by one of the most sophisticated terror networks the world has ever seen. Can you explain that ?

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/deradicalisation-terrorism-daniel-koehler


Who were the foreign drug dealers and rapists that were being deported ? One of the young men deported last year had
been convicted of dangerous driving and spent seven months in prison. Does that really deserve that he be ripped from his family and his home ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2020, 11:50:14 PM
I’m sorry but exactly what policy of Labour’s ‘socialist’ manifesto didn’t the public like ?

The last two terror attacks where perpetrated after 10 years of Tory rule. They can now bring in emergency legislation to deal with the early release of terrorist prisoners so why not in the last 10 years ? Further Nazir Afzal warned that the country needed a proper deradicalisation programme but was told by Johnson that there was not enough money.

I’ve always found it very strange that while it is accepted that the poor white girls of 13, 14, 15 were groomed by older men during the Oxford, Rotherham scandals yet no such sympathy is given to the 15 year old Muslim girl groomed by one of the most sophisticated terror networks the world has ever seen. Can you explain that ?

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/deradicalisation-terrorism-daniel-koehler


Who were the foreign drug dealers and rapists that were being deported ? One of the young men deported last year had
been convicted of dangerous driving and spent seven months in prison. Does that really deserve that he be ripped from his family and his home ?
Yes, you’re definitely one of the bleeding heart liberals that I’m talking about.  I am too about many things  so don’t ask me, people hold all sorts of views I find inexplicable or contrary to mine, but they are entitled to their views and many of them seem far more popular than mine, so what can you do?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 13, 2020, 07:12:47 AM
not a good move.  An example of the kind of socially progressive thing that people in the UK really aren’t tolerant of, and one which really tries my own liberal sensibilities



“Rebecca Long Bailey, seeking the Labour leadership, has reached for the transgender issue. Via Twitter — the worst possible medium for discussing these questions — she has endorsed the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights manifesto.

The manifesto condemns as a “hate group” Women’s Place UK, a grassroots movement founded by lifelong Labour feminists. It holds public meetings to discuss new laws that could allow any male-born person who felt so inclined to be legally treated as female and thus gain access to the services, spaces and rights that the law at present reserves for women.

To some trans activists, even suggesting that new laws can create tension is transphobic. Since they believe “trans women are women”, admitting them (and, in some cases, their penises) to women’s refuges, changing rooms and prisons is no different to admitting biological women. The manifesto demands that anyone who dissents (perhaps by suggesting that differences in anatomy matter) be expelled from Labour.

Long Bailey may calculate that this plays well with some Labour members, although the thousands of them tweeting #expelme following her move suggests not all are yet signed up to identity politics and witch-hunting”.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 13, 2020, 11:30:50 AM
not a good move.  An example of the kind of socially progressive thing that people in the UK really aren’t tolerant of, and one which really tries my own liberal sensibilities



“Rebecca Long Bailey, seeking the Labour leadership, has reached for the transgender issue. Via Twitter — the worst possible medium for discussing these questions — she has endorsed the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights manifesto.

The manifesto condemns as a “hate group” Women’s Place UK, a grassroots movement founded by lifelong Labour feminists. It holds public meetings to discuss new laws that could allow any male-born person who felt so inclined to be legally treated as female and thus gain access to the services, spaces and rights that the law at present reserves for women.

To some trans activists, even suggesting that new laws can create tension is transphobic. Since they believe “trans women are women”, admitting them (and, in some cases, their penises) to women’s refuges, changing rooms and prisons is no different to admitting biological women. The manifesto demands that anyone who dissents (perhaps by suggesting that differences in anatomy matter) be expelled from Labour.

Long Bailey may calculate that this plays well with some Labour members, although the thousands of them tweeting #expelme following her move suggests not all are yet signed up to identity politics and witch-hunting”.

Like the antisemitism issue I think that this won’t even cross most voters minds when voting.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 13, 2020, 06:47:52 PM
Like the antisemitism issue I think that this won’t even cross most voters minds when voting.
It doesn’t help though does it?  Not that she’s likely to be the next Labour leader thankfully.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 13, 2020, 07:31:33 PM
It doesn’t help though does it?  Not that she’s likely to be the next Labour leader thankfully.

No it doesn’t. This really is not what her focus should be.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 13, 2020, 08:20:24 PM
No it doesn’t. This really is not what her focus should be.
Nandy’s jumped on the bandwagon too.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 13, 2020, 11:17:37 PM
Nandy’s jumped on the bandwagon too.

These are things that concern Labour’s new urban voters. They are not going to win back their traditional voters.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 13, 2020, 11:36:39 PM
These are things that concern Labour’s new urban voters. They are not going to win back their traditional voters.
Well exactly. When are they going to realise this?  Are they thick or something?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 14, 2020, 12:13:53 AM
Well exactly. When are they going to realise this?  Are they thick or something?

I’m not sure what’s going on tbh. They seem to be trying to be all things to all men ( and women) but failing to please anyone.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on February 15, 2020, 04:11:36 PM

This has got to be my opportunity to put forward my ideas as a working class ignoramus with pretentions.

I do not believe that The Tory Party is Institutionally Racist.  I have always supported them so they can't be.  And it caused mayhem in our house when I said I had voted for them.
Besides, voting Tory was my first step up into The Upper Classes.  I never quite made it, but I put up a good front.  Most of the people I know in Real Life think I went to Roedean.  This might suggest that they are easily fooled.

Transgender Men are only Women in my book once they have gone the whole hog and had It chopped off.  They might then be safe around women in All Female situations.

No Woman with half a brain wants to be a Man unless seriously disturbed.  So end of that one.

ISIS Brides?  Shamima Begum was only fifteen so might not have realised what she was getting into.  But she was savvy enough to steal the money for her air fare and her sister's passport and to organise her escape.  And then to marry a Terrorist that someone else chose for her.  While I thought these girls wanted to make their own choices.  Something not quite right here.

Oh, and then it all got a bit horrid because ISIS Lost.  So she is either deranged or manipulative.  Either is not a good idea.
 
Brexit.  I have long believed that Brexit is Best for Britain.  But since I don't live in Britain and haven't for a very long time it is probably none of my business.

Antisemitism remains my one big horror story.  I have known a lot of Jews in my life time and I will never understand it.  I don't even know what it means.  And I don't think Antisemites  do either.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: steve_trousers on February 15, 2020, 04:28:45 PM
The conservative party have shown they are the real representatives of working people in Britain today.
Labour failed to listen to their working class voters, two thirds of whom voted for Brexit. The majority of their MP's then pressured Corbyn into a 2nd referendum stance that their constituents didn't want.

I don't see anything institutionally racist about them, it's just London labour crying into their beer because they lost. Labour should have got a handle on the blatant anti semitism within their own ranks but chose not to. Another own goal seeing as many Jewish folk supported them.
 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 04:41:53 PM
This has got to be my opportunity to put forward my ideas as a working class ignoramus with pretentions.

I do not believe that The Tory Party is Institutionally Racist.  I have always supported them so they can't be.  And it caused mayhem in our house when I said I had voted for them.
Besides, voting Tory was my first step up into The Upper Classes.  I never quite made it, but I put up a good front.  Most of the people I know in Real Life think I went to Roedean.  This might suggest that they are easily fooled.

Transgender Men are only Women in my book once they have gone the whole hog and had It chopped off.  They might then be safe around women in All Female situations.

No Woman with half a brain wants to be a Man unless seriously disturbed.  So end of that one.

ISIS Brides?  Shamima Begum was only fifteen so might not have realised what she was getting into.  But she was savvy enough to steal the money for her air fare and her sister's passport and to organise her escape.  And then to marry a Terrorist that someone else chose for her.  While I thought these girls wanted to make their own choices.  Something not quite right here.

Oh, and then it all got a bit horrid because ISIS Lost.  So she is either deranged or manipulative.  Either is not a good idea.
 
Brexit.  I have long believed that Brexit is Best for Britain.  But since I don't live in Britain and haven't for a very long time it is probably none of my business.

Antisemitism remains my one big horror story.  I have known a lot of Jews in my life time and I will never understand it.  I don't even know what it means.  And I don't think Antisemites  do either.

Thank you Eleanor...very interesting answers....a few questions.

Do you think it’s possible for the Tories to be institutionally racist but as you are simply a voter and not a member it might have slipped by you ? Many voters simply avail themselves of the information they needed to make a, hopefully, informed choice but no more.

Do you think the poor girls groomed in the Oxford and Rotherham grooming scandal where somehow complicit in their own abuse simply because they drank the alcohol offered, took the drugs offered, lied to their parents etc etc ? There are cases of young girl being sexually groomed on line, taking their passports and arranging to run away. Are the complicit in their own abuse ? Isn’t grooming grooming whether it’s to run away to join a terrorist organisation or your far older abuser ?

Brexit....we will just have to wait and see.

Antisemitism is abhorrent and so is any kind of racism. Are we to ignore the sort that lead to the deportations to Jamaica this week, while mourning the bullying of our Jewish neighbours ? I think Corbyn put it excellently this week when he asked Johnson if a foreign born, white man who took cocaine should face deportation ? It’s the double standard that appalls me.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 04:50:12 PM
The conservative party have shown they are the real representatives of working people in Britain today.
Labour failed to listen to their working class voters, two thirds of whom voted for Brexit. The majority of their MP's then pressured Corbyn into a 2nd referendum stance that their constituents didn't want.

I don't see anything institutionally racist about them, it's just London labour crying into their beer because they lost. Labour should have got a handle on the blatant anti semitism within their own ranks but chose not to. Another own goal seeing as many Jewish folk supported them.

I agree, Brexit lost Labour the election but that certainly doesn’t mean that the Tory party has those voters best interests at heart. They were a means to an end and I do pity the poor souls who think otherwise.

There are around 300,000 Jewish people in the UK...many of them Labour members and many of them voted for Labour and I’m afraid you are sadly deluded if you think the the red wall fell because Labour were accused of being antisemitic. Do your research....three Conservative MPs were accused of antisemitism in the election campaign...two of who are still members of the party...now tell me how Labour aren’t getting a handle on claims of antisemitism.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: steve_trousers on February 15, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
I agree, Brexit lost Labour the election but that certainly doesn’t mean that the Tory party has those voters best interests at heart. They were a means to an end and I do pity the poor souls who think otherwise.

There are around 300,000 Jewish people in the UK...many of them Labour members and many of them voted for Labour and
Quote
I’m afraid you are sadly deluded if you think the the red wall fell because Labour were accused of being antisemitic
. Do your research....three Conservative MPs were accused of antisemitism in the election campaign...two of who are still members of the party...now tell me how Labour aren’t getting a handle on claims of antisemitism.

I didn't. I said the red wall fell because 2 thirds of them voted for Brexit and their own party ignored them, alienating Jewish folk was yet another own goal.
There is without doubt an antisemitism problem within Labour at grass roots level, I was at the London demonstrations in 2015 I know what I heard. Bile and Hatred was all too commonplace.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on February 15, 2020, 05:26:07 PM
The conservative party have shown they are the real representatives of working people in Britain today.
Labour failed to listen to their working class voters, two thirds of whom voted for Brexit. The majority of their MP's then pressured Corbyn into a 2nd referendum stance that their constituents didn't want.

I don't see anything institutionally racist about them, it's just London labour crying into their beer because they lost. Labour should have got a handle on the blatant anti semitism within their own ranks but chose not to. Another own goal seeing as many Jewish folk supported them.

It seems that Antisemitism crept up on The Labour Party.  They seem to think that, as ever, Jews own all of The Money.  I don't know if they do, or not.  But Jews are good with money.  Is this now a crime?

I am good with money, I just never had all that much to be good with, so I stagger on.

My half brother whom I do love, inherited all of the Mitchell money from my Jewish stepmother after my gentile father died first. But I seriously can't get upset about this.

But it has always been to do with the ability to make money, most of which was hard earned.

Meanwhile Hitler slaughtered 6 Million people in an attempt to take over the wealth of The Jews.  It was nothing else but envy.  And we all know where that went.

Just as a matter of interest,  Shakespeare wasn't an anti-Semite.  Shylock was the greatest part he ever created.  And Antonio was a classic, over privileged dick head who thought he could abuse and use Jews. 

Don't even talk to me about Portia.  I would have sicked up playing her "Quality of Mercy" speech.  I mean, have you read it?  Vomit, vomit. 
But I did once play Shylock.  That was glorious.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 05:27:43 PM
Thank you Eleanor...very interesting answers....a few questions.

Do you think it’s possible for the Tories to be institutionally racist but as you are simply a voter and not a member it might have slipped by you ? Many voters simply avail themselves of the information they needed to make a, hopefully, informed choice but no more.

Do you think the poor girls groomed in the Oxford and Rotherham grooming scandal where somehow complicit in their own abuse simply because they drank the alcohol offered, took the drugs offered, lied to their parents etc etc ? There are cases of young girl being sexually groomed on line, taking their passports and arranging to run away. Are the complicit in their own abuse ? Isn’t grooming grooming whether it’s to run away to join a terrorist organisation or your far older abuser ?

Brexit....we will just have to wait and see.

Antisemitism is abhorrent and so is any kind of racism. Are we to ignore the sort that lead to the deportations to Jamaica this week, while mourning the bullying of our Jewish neighbours ? I think Corbyn put it excellently this week when he asked Johnson if a foreign born, white man who took cocaine should face deportation ? It’s the double standard that appalls me.
Was snorting cocaine the worst crime these deported Jamaican offenders committed?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on February 15, 2020, 06:27:23 PM
Thank you Eleanor...very interesting answers....a few questions.

Do you think it’s possible for the Tories to be institutionally racist but as you are simply a voter and not a member it might have slipped by you ? Many voters simply avail themselves of the information they needed to make a, hopefully, informed choice but no more.

Do you think the poor girls groomed in the Oxford and Rotherham grooming scandal where somehow complicit in their own abuse simply because they drank the alcohol offered, took the drugs offered, lied to their parents etc etc ? There are cases of young girl being sexually groomed on line, taking their passports and arranging to run away. Are the complicit in their own abuse ? Isn’t grooming grooming whether it’s to run away to join a terrorist organisation or your far older abuser ?

Brexit....we will just have to wait and see.

Antisemitism is abhorrent and so is any kind of racism. Are we to ignore the sort that lead to the deportations to Jamaica this week, while mourning the bullying of our Jewish neighbours ? I think Corbyn put it excellently this week when he asked Johnson if a foreign born, white man who took cocaine should face deportation ? It’s the double standard that appalls me.

Dear Faith,   Thanks for the opportunity.  I gave up on voting 35 years ago, 25 years before I moved to France.  So I am not a Voter.  I worked stoically for The Tory Party until I realised that they were making a fool of me.  I despise Politicians in general.  Much more to it, of course.

My Comment was tongue in cheek, by the way.  I was tying to say how ridiculous it all is.  Or did you take me literally?

Children being groomed makes me sick to my stomach, but where were their parents and the authorities?

Am I Racist?  Too bloody true I am on occasions, if white, girl children are being targeted by depraved morons.  But try saying so.  The Police were a disgrace.  But then they often are.

I would like to feel more sorry for Shamima Begum, but she came from a fairly solid family who I doubt ever treated her badly.  So why was she looking to be radicalised?  She was just a spoilt brat looking for attention.  But even spoilt brats have to learn.  However, I suspect that it might be a bit too late for that for her, and some others.  She is not alone.  Cock a snook at Britain and then find out what it means.
She stole her sister's passport and the money.  Is that okay?  Stealing a Passport is a major crime.

Anti Semitism isn't actually Racism.  It is a Crime against Humanity.

I am not sure of the damage that Labour has done to itself, or even if it meant to, but the more of this shite that is out there then the better.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 07:50:30 PM
. Do your research....three Conservative MPs were accused of antisemitism in the election campaign...two of who are still members of the party...now tell me how Labour aren’t getting a handle on claims of antisemitism.


I didn't. I said the red wall fell because 2 thirds of them voted for Brexit and their own party ignored them, alienating Jewish folk was yet another own goal.
There is without doubt an antisemitism problem within Labour at grass roots level, I was at the London demonstrations in 2015 I know what I heard. Bile and Hatred was all too commonplace.

What demonstrations ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 07:51:51 PM
Was snorting cocaine the worst crime these deported Jamaican offenders committed?

Some of them.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 08:05:28 PM
Dear Faith,   Thanks for the opportunity.  I gave up on voting 35 years ago, 25 years before I moved to France.  So I am not a Voter.  I worked stoically for The Tory Party until I realised that they were making a fool of me.  I despise Politicians in general.  Much more to it, of course.

My Comment was tongue in cheek, by the way.  I was tying to say how ridiculous it all is.  Or did you take me literally?

Children being groomed makes me sick to my stomach, but where were their parents and the authorities?

Am I Racist?  Too bloody true I am on occasions, if white, girl children are being targeted by depraved morons.  But try saying so.  The Police were a disgrace.  But then they often are.

I would like to feel more sorry for Shamima Begum, but she came from a fairly solid family who I doubt ever treated her badly.  So why was she looking to be radicalised?  She was just a spoilt brat looking for attention.  But even spoilt brats have to learn.  However, I suspect that it might be a bit too late for that for her, and some others.  She is not alone.  Cock a snook at Britain and then find out what it means.
She stole her sister's passport and the money.  Is that okay?  Stealing a Passport is a major crime.

Anti Semitism isn't actually Racism.  It is a Crime against Humanity.

I am not sure of the damage that Labour has done to itself, or even if it meant to, but the more of this shite that is out there then the better.

Wasn’t Shamima Begum targeted by depraved morons ? The girls groomed by the Asian men in Rotherham and Oxford had free will but also the vulnerability that comes with age.....Shamima Begum was every bit as vulnerable. If you think not then why not ?

Antisemitism is racism.

I agree a light should be shone on every corner where racism lives....and that’s in every party.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 09:40:07 PM
Some of them.
Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 10:09:58 PM
Do you have a link?

Course. From the government’s own website


Class   Drug   Possession
A   Crack cocaine, cocaine, ecstasy (MDMA), heroin, LSD, magic mushrooms, methadone, methamphetamine (crystal meth)   Up to 7 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both.


The PM could have been jailed for seven years. I wonder how many of the deportees were convicted of a crime carrying a seven year sentence?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 10:11:07 PM
Course. From the government’s own website


Class   Drug   Possession
A   Crack cocaine, cocaine, ecstasy (MDMA), heroin, LSD, magic mushrooms, methadone, methamphetamine (crystal meth)   Up to 7 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both.


The PM could have been jailed for seven years. I wonder how many of the deportees were convicted of a crime carrying a seven year sentence?
no, a link to the cases of the men deported for snorting cocaine.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 10:22:09 PM
no, a link to the cases of the men deported for snorting cocaine.

Possession of cocaine...the sentence if caught, up to seven years in prison.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 10:58:02 PM
Possession of cocaine...the sentence if caught, up to seven years in prison.
No, you keep on misunderstanding (deliberately?)  You said that for some of the deportees their worst crime was snorting cocaine.  Do you have a link to these cases of men who were deported for simply snorting cocaine?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 11:03:37 PM
As you don’t seem able to supply the link I asked for I went and had a look myself.  These are the criminal acts pertaining to the 17 deportees

A government breakdown of the 17 people on the Jamaica deportation flight today: Rape 1 convicted for rape and given an 11 year sentence 1 convicted of rape and given a sentence of 4 years and 6 months   Violent crime 1 convicted for a violent assault and given a sentence of 1 year and 3 months 1 convicted of wounding with intend to cause GBH, possession of a weapon in public place Violent offences against a person (Wounding) 7 years 1 convicted of a violent crime against a person and given a 8 year sentence Drugs 1 convicted for intent to supply class A drugs – 7 year sentence 1 persistent offender, whose most recent conviction was for drugs offences and intimidating a witness and given a total sentence of 11 months 1 convicted for importing controlled drugs and given a sentence of four years 1 convicted to supplying class  A drugs and given a sentence of four years and six months 1 convicted to supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of three years 1 convicted of importing controlled class B drugs and given a three year sentence 1 convicted of supplying class A drugs (crack cocaine) and given a sentence of 3 years and 2 months 1 convicted of supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of 3 years and 4 months Robbery and firearm offences: 1 convicted of robbery and give a life sentence 1 convicted of robbery, firearms offence, theft of a vehicle and possessing class A drugs, given a five year sentence 1 convicted for conspiracy to rob and possession of a firearm and given a sentence of 9 years Burglary 1 convicted of burglary and given a prison sentence of 2 years and 6 months

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-moved-uk-child-served-two-years-burglary-deported-jamaica-12222159/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

As I thought - no one deported simply for snorting coke.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 11:06:20 PM
No, you keep on misunderstanding (deliberately?)  You said that for some of the deportees their worst crime was snorting cocaine.  Do you have a link to these cases of men who were deported for simply snorting cocaine?

If the crime carries a prison sentence does it really matter what the crime was ? If Johnson had been jailed for possession of a class A drug and been Jamaican he could very well have been deported.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 11:08:04 PM
If the crime carries a prison sentence does it really matter what the crime was ? If Johnson had been jailed for possession of a class A drug and been Jamaican he could very well have been deported.
I have never heard of anyone being imprisoned for snorting cocaine.  Yes the crimes DO matter and I don’t think Boris would have been found guilty of any of the crimes committed by these 17 deportees, unless you have evidence to the contrary? 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 11:11:54 PM
As you don’t seem able to supply the link I asked for I went and had a look myself.  These are the criminal acts pertaining to the 17 deportees

A government breakdown of the 17 people on the Jamaica deportation flight today: Rape 1 convicted for rape and given an 11 year sentence 1 convicted of rape and given a sentence of 4 years and 6 months   Violent crime 1 convicted for a violent assault and given a sentence of 1 year and 3 months 1 convicted of wounding with intend to cause GBH, possession of a weapon in public place Violent offences against a person (Wounding) 7 years 1 convicted of a violent crime against a person and given a 8 year sentence Drugs 1 convicted for intent to supply class A drugs – 7 year sentence 1 persistent offender, whose most recent conviction was for drugs offences and intimidating a witness and given a total sentence of 11 months 1 convicted for importing controlled drugs and given a sentence of four years 1 convicted to supplying class  A drugs and given a sentence of four years and six months 1 convicted to supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of three years 1 convicted of importing controlled class B drugs and given a three year sentence 1 convicted of supplying class A drugs (crack cocaine) and given a sentence of 3 years and 2 months 1 convicted of supplying class A drugs and given a sentence of 3 years and 4 months Robbery and firearm offences: 1 convicted of robbery and give a life sentence 1 convicted of robbery, firearms offence, theft of a vehicle and possessing class A drugs, given a five year sentence 1 convicted for conspiracy to rob and possession of a firearm and given a sentence of 9 years Burglary 1 convicted of burglary and given a prison sentence of 2 years and 6 months

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-moved-uk-child-served-two-years-burglary-deported-jamaica-12222159/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

As I thought - no one deported simply for snorting coke.

Okay...what about  possession of a class A drug, destruction of private property ( Johnson spent a night in the cells ) and conspiracy to commit ABH ( 5 years in prison).
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 11:16:54 PM
Okay...what about  possession of a class A drug, destruction of private property ( Johnson spent a night in the cells ) and conspiracy to commit ABH ( 5 years in prison).
What about them?  This is a ludicrous argument.  Boris is not Jamaican in case you hadn’t noticed.  Which of these offences has he been found guilty of, or served time for?  Why do you think he should be deported?  Do you think any foreign national who commits a crime involving a prison sentence should automatically be given leave to remain in this country when their sentence is spent?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 11:36:07 PM
If Boris is against Blacks full stop why is his government opening its arms out to Africa?

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/uk/boris-johnson-immigration-south-africans-easier-uk-why/

https://www.monitor.co.ug/News/World/Britain-will-be-more-open-to-migrants-from-Africa/688340-5425566-a8af0vz/index.html
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 11:37:29 PM
What about them?  This is a ludicrous argument.  Boris is not Jamaican in case you hadn’t noticed.  Which of these offences has he been found guilty of, or served time for?  Why do you think he should be deported?  Do you think any foreign national who commits a crime involving a prison sentence should automatically be given leave to remain in this country when their sentence is spent?

No Johnson isn’t a Jamaican and the deportees weren’t rich....and that is the difference. By his own admission he conspired to commit ABH, destroyed private property and possessed a class A drug...two of which are imprisonable offences...that he wasn’t convicted of those crimes is down more to his family’s standing than lack of guilt.

Johnson was born in America and was involved in a conspiracy to commit a violent crime. The deportees where born in Jamaica and had conspired or actually committed violent crimes...the only difference I see is thatJohnson is white and wealthy.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 11:41:16 PM
If Boris is against Blacks full stop why is his government opening its arms out to Africa?

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/uk/boris-johnson-immigration-south-africans-easier-uk-why/

https://www.monitor.co.ug/News/World/Britain-will-be-more-open-to-migrants-from-Africa/688340-5425566-a8af0vz/index.html

Oh I’m sure he doesn't mind black people wiping the backsides of our old people.....what with all the Eastern European’s now heading home.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 11:41:48 PM
No Johnson isn’t a Jamaican and the deportees weren’t rich....and that is the difference. By his own admission he conspired to commit ABH, destroyed private property and possessed a class A drug...two of which are imprisonable offences...that he wasn’t convicted of those crimes is down more to his family’s standing than lack of guilt.

Johnson was born in America and was involved in a conspiracy to commit a violent crime. The deportees where born in Jamaica and had conspired or actually committed violent crimes...the only difference I see is thatJohnson is white and wealthy.
Oh right, so Johnson (never convicted of any crime and a British citizen) is just the same as foreign nationals with a criminal record.  Rightyho then.  So tell me, is it just cos they is black that you’re kicking off about this, or would you be equally upset if it was middle class white American criminals being deported?   And you didn’t answer my question - should all foreign national criminals who have served 12 months or more in British jails be given leave to remain in this country, or only the Jamaican ones?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 15, 2020, 11:43:16 PM
Oh I’m sure he doesn't mind black people wiping the backsides of our old people.....what with all the Eastern European’s now heading home.
Is that all you think African migrants are good for then?  How frightfully racist of you! 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 11:54:39 PM
Oh right, so Johnson (never convicted of any crime and a British citizen) is just the same as foreign nationals with a criminal record.  Rightyho then.  So tell me, is it just cos they is black that you’re kicking off about this, or would you be equally upset if it was middle class white American criminals being deported?   And you didn’t answer my question - should all foreign national criminals who have served 12 months or more in British jails be given leave to remain in this country, or only the Jamaican ones?

Rupert Smith, one of those deported to Jamaica was protecting his daughter from unwanted advances and was convicted of ABH. Conspiracy to commit ABH...where’s the difference?

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 15, 2020, 11:56:13 PM
Is that all you think African migrants are good for then?  How frightfully racist of you!

No that’s what Johnson thinks....those pycanninies with their watermelon smiles.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 12:31:09 AM
No that’s what Johnson thinks....those pycanninies with their watermelon smiles.
So you know for a fact Boris doesn’t want skilled immigration from Africa on a points based system, just bum-wiping skivvies?  Gosh, did he tell you this himself?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Rupert Smith, one of those deported to Jamaica was protecting his daughter from unwanted advances and was convicted of ABH. Conspiracy to commit ABH...where’s the difference?
You have completely avoided addressing my post and the question therein.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 10:55:08 AM
I wonder how many laws were broken with the current deportations.

Deportation after a criminal sentence

If a deportation order has been made against you, you will be issued with notice of deportation arrangements, and this should be in keeping with the removal notice periods above.

To prevent your deportation, you need to prove that it would breach your rights under the Refugee Convention or the Human Rights Convention.
The immigration rules are now weighted very much in favour of deporting a person after a criminal sentence.

The rules state that if you were sentenced for more than 12 months, your deportation is “conducive to the public good and in the public interest”. The rules also say that your deportation is “conducive to the public good and in the public interest” if your offending “caused serious harm” as determined by the Home Office, or you are a “persistent offender who shows a particular disregard for the law”, irrespective of how long you were sentenced for.

If you are liable to deportation, your spouse or civil partner and/or your child  are also liable to be deported unless they have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK in their own right, or are British, or have been living apart from you.

If you were sentenced to more than four years, the Home Office guidance says you will need to have “very compelling circumstances” in order for a deportation order not to be made or to be revoked. Remember, however, that a court may have a different interpretation of what counts as those circumstances than the Home Office.

If you have been sentenced for less than four years but more than 12 months, or your offending is deemed to fall into the “causing serious harm” category described above, the immigration rules say that deportation would be proportionate except if deportation would be in breach of your Article 8 rights to family and private life, AND:

(1) you have a child under the age of 18 in the UK,

you have a “genuine and subsisting parental relationship” with your child
your child is a British citizen or has lived in the UK for at least seven years immediately prior to the decision to deport you
it would be “unduly harsh” for your child to live in the country to which you will be deported, and
it would be “unduly harsh” for your child to remain in the UK without you.
OR

(2) you have a “genuine and subsisting relationship” with a partner who is in the UK and has British citizen or Indefinite Leave to Remain, and

the relationship was formed at a time when you were in the UK lawfully and your immigration status was “not precarious”; and
it would be unduly harsh for your partner to live in the country to which you are being deported, because of compelling circumstances over and above very significant difficulties which would be faced by you and your partner in continuing your family life together outside the UK and which could not be overcome or would entail very serious hardship for you and your partner; and
it would be unduly harsh for your partner to remain in the UK without you.
You also need to show that you have been lawfully resident in the UK for most of your life; and you are “socially and culturally integrated in the UK”; and there would be “very significant obstacles” to integration into the country to which you are being deported.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 11:19:50 AM
Do Guardian readers believe there is ever a good reason for deporting black and Asian foreign nationals back to the country of their birth?  If so what would those reasons be I wonder?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Do Guardian readers believe there is ever a good reason for deporting black and Asian foreign nationals back to the country of their birth?  If so what would those reasons be I wonder?

No matter what paper you read I would hope that you’d be prepared to hold your government to account if they don’t follow the law.

Do you know if our government followed the law in all the cases of the men deported ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 12:50:54 PM
No matter what paper you read I would hope that you’d be prepared to hold your government to account if they don’t follow the law.

Do you know if our government followed the law in all the cases of the men deported ?
You’d have to ask someone well versed in the law on these matters.  Copying and pasting bits from the Citizen’s Advice website isn’t good enough to make a decision one way or the other.   Presumably some law was broken to allow 25 drug pushers, murderers and rapists not to be deported, so maybe these poor violent criminals will get a reprieve and be allowed to reoffend here at a later date.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on February 16, 2020, 01:09:48 PM
You’d have to ask someone well versed in the law on these matters.  Copying and pasting bits from the Citizen’s Advice website isn’t good enough to make a decision one way or the other.   Presumably some law was broken to allow 25 drug pushers, murderers and rapists not to be deported, so maybe these poor violent criminals will get a reprieve and be allowed to reoffend here at a later date.

They quite likely already have.  When does Britain have the right to say that this will not be tolerated?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 02:24:03 PM
You’d have to ask someone well versed in the law on these matters.  Copying and pasting bits from the Citizen’s Advice website isn’t good enough to make a decision one way or the other.   Presumably some law was broken to allow 25 drug pushers, murderers and rapists not to be deported, so maybe these poor violent criminals will get a reprieve and be allowed to reoffend here at a later date.

You can’t pick and chose what laws you like to adhere to.

Your stance reminds me of that famous poem

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
They quite likely already have.  When does Britain have the right to say that this will not be tolerated?

It does have the right but the government must follow the law as it stands. What a different outcome.....change the law.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
You can’t pick and chose what laws you like to adhere to.

Your stance reminds me of that famous poem

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
*sanctimonious cliche klaxon*
Can you please point out in what way I have picked and chosen which laws to abide by?  Thanking you in advance for your enlightenment in this matter.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
*sanctimonious cliche klaxon*
Can you please point out in what way I have picked and chosen which laws to abide by?  Thanking you in advance for your enlightenment in this matter.

You haven’t, the government has.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 04:04:23 PM
You haven’t, the government has.
Under a socialist government would black foreign nationals ever be deported do you think, or would they be given British citizenship on release from prison if they wanted it?  I think it’s one of many problems Labour has.  The Great British Public no longer believes Labour has its best interests at heart and instead are more concerned with the welfare of the rest of the world’s poor and disadvantaged IMO.  The Tories are only doing what the vast majority of ordinary Brits think is the best for their country and it only enhances their reputation IMO.  You may not like it but what are you going to do about it?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
Under a socialist government would black foreign nationals ever be deported do you think, or would they be given British citizenship on release from prison if they wanted it?  I think it’s one of many problems Labour has.  The Great British Public no longer believes Labour has its best interests at heart and instead are more concerned with the welfare of the rest of the world’s poor and disadvantaged IMO.  The Tories are only doing what the vast majority of ordinary Brits think is the best for their country and it only enhances their reputation IMO.  You may not like it but what are you going to do about it?

Any government, no matter what their colour, should be guided by their own laws.  Also I think you should avoid using phrases like ‘ the Great British Public believes’, at best it’s a lazy generalisation. Lest we forget Labour is the largest political party in Europe with some half a million members, while the Conservatives lag behind with around the 160000 mark, so there is certainly a large section of the population who support both them and their policies. That Johnson filled a need in the electorate this election is true but I don’t think those voters can be relied upon by the Conservatives long term. Kier Starmer, for me, will be the pragmatic choice as he will show Johnson up for  the inadequate charlatan he has always been.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
Any government, no matter what their colour, should be guided by their own laws.  Also I think you should avoid using phrases like ‘ the Great British Public believes’, at best it’s a lazy generalisation. Lest we forget Labour is the largest political party in Europe with some half a million members, while the Conservatives lag behind with around the 160000 mark, so there is certainly a large section of the population who support both them and their policies. That Johnson filled a need in the electorate this election is true but I don’t think those voters can be relied upon by the Conservatives long term. Kier Starmer, for me, will be the pragmatic choice as he will show Johnson up for  the inadequate charlatan he has always been.
I think I should be allowed to say “the Great Beitish public believes that deporting rapists, murderers and drug dealers is a good thing” if that is my opinion, which it is.  Do you think if there was a national referendum on the subject that the majority would vote NOT to deport them?  Do you really seriously believe that?  Please!  I look forward to Keir Starmer showing Boris up in parliament and in finding a way to reconnect with erstwhile Labour voters who were so alienated and repulsed by his predecessor.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
From a wide ranging report on British public’s attitiude to immigration conducted by Hope Not Hate

Trust in the Government and politicians is low
Among those who took part in the citizens’ panels there was very little trust in the Government to manage immigration, both adding to and reflecting a broader mistrust of politicians and politics. Just 15% of respondents in the ICM research felt that the Government had managed immigration into the UK competently and fairly. The citizens’ panels did not trust the Government to enforce immigration policy competently or follow through policy commitments. High profile policy failures such as the Windrush scandal, failure to deport foreign national prisoners and failure to meet the net migration target added to political mistrust.
http://nationalconversation.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/national-conversation-exec-summary-2018-09-v2-PRINT.pdf
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 06:10:55 PM
By far the largest nimber of foreign national criminals facing deportation from this country have white skin.  Where’s Labour’s outrage about these people?  In fact, Keith Vaz (Lab) used this report to criticise the government for not doing enough to deport them! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-referendum-more-than-13000-foreign-criminals-awaiting-deportation-from-uk-a7063026.html

While the majority of FNOs (foreign national offenders) in the UK are in prisons, nearly 6,000 were living in communities at the end of 2015, the report said. Of the predominant nationalities among FNOs, the top three were all EU countries: Poland, Ireland and Romania.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 06:26:32 PM
I think I should be allowed to say “the Great Beitish public believes that deporting rapists, murderers and drug dealers is a good thing” if that is my opinion, which it is.  Do you think if there was a national referendum on the subject that the majority would vote NOT to deport them?  Do you really seriously believe that?  Please!  I look forward to Keir Starmer showing Boris up in parliament and in finding a way to reconnect with erstwhile Labour voters who were so alienated and repulsed by his predecessor.

You can of course say whatever you like but that particular phrase shows you up as being somewhat lazy in your thinking....but then again we know how you love your generalisations...let the MSM do all your thinking for you, much simpler. Let’s be clear though....the law is the law and any government who bends it to gain popularity simply isn’t fit to be in power.

Phrase most used by Labour voters who voted Conservative......”I don’t like/ trust Johnson but he’ll get Brexit done”. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. On the other hand Corbyn is the most popular Labour leader in the last 100 years among Labour members.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 06:28:12 PM
From a wide ranging report on British public’s attitiude to immigration conducted by Hope Not Hate

Trust in the Government and politicians is low
Among those who took part in the citizens’ panels there was very little trust in the Government to manage immigration, both adding to and reflecting a broader mistrust of politicians and politics. Just 15% of respondents in the ICM research felt that the Government had managed immigration into the UK competently and fairly. The citizens’ panels did not trust the Government to enforce immigration policy competently or follow through policy commitments. High profile policy failures such as the Windrush scandal, failure to deport foreign national prisoners and failure to meet the net migration target added to political mistrust.
http://nationalconversation.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/national-conversation-exec-summary-2018-09-v2-PRINT.pdf

And who has been in government for the last 10 years ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 06:29:57 PM
By far the largest nimber of foreign national criminals facing deportation from this country have white skin.  Where’s Labour’s outrage about these people?  In fact, Keith Vaz (Lab) used this report to criticise the government for not doing enough to deport them! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-referendum-more-than-13000-foreign-criminals-awaiting-deportation-from-uk-a7063026.html

While the majority of FNOs (foreign national offenders) in the UK are in prisons, nearly 6,000 were living in communities at the end of 2015, the report said. Of the predominant nationalities among FNOs, the top three were all EU countries: Poland, Ireland and Romania.

It’s not about deportation per say it’s about what is lawful....why can’t you get your head around that ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 06:31:57 PM
And who has been in government for the last 10 years ?
The “institutionally racist” Tory Party, who failed for 10years to deport foreign national offenders to much criticism, and now they are getting round to it they are getting even more criticism!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 06:32:54 PM
It’s not about deportation per say it’s about what is lawful....why can’t you get your head around that ?
My head is totally around it, what makes you think otherwise?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 06:43:17 PM
The “institutionally racist” Tory Party, who failed for 10years to deport foreign national offenders to much criticism, and now they are getting round to it they are getting even more criticism!

Are you forgetting the Windrush scandal....the hostile environment...the fact that the Muslim Council of Britain hold ”long-standing concerns about bigotry in our politics and our governing party”....that most Tory members believe that Islam is a threat to our British way of life ?

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 06:43:57 PM
My head is totally around it, what makes you think otherwise?

Your posts suggest otherwise
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 07:07:15 PM
Are you forgetting the Windrush scandal....the hostile environment...the fact that the Muslim Council of Britain hold ”long-standing concerns about bigotry in our politics and our governing party”....that most Tory members believe that Islam is a threat to our British way of life ?
A fairly widely held view if I may refer you back to the Hope Not Hate report.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 07:08:33 PM
Your posts suggest otherwise
Yes well your comprehension of my posts has always been a bit lacking IMO.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 07:13:59 PM
A fairly widely held view if I may refer you back to the Hope Not Hate report.

What is ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 07:17:45 PM
What is ?
Anti-Muslim sentiment and attitudes.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 07:23:01 PM
Anti-Muslim sentiment and attitudes.

Does that make it acceptable ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
Does that make it acceptable ?
Did I say it did?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 07:31:53 PM
Did I say it did?

So it isn’t ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 16, 2020, 07:33:26 PM
I have no problem with it whatsoever.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 07:35:04 PM
I have no problem with it whatsoever.

Could you be a bit more specific?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 16, 2020, 07:38:33 PM
Could you be a bit more specific?

Anti Muslim sentiment. It doesn't concern me.

Islam in the extreme form is a hateful, oppressive, barbaric & backwards ideology.

You don't see devout Christians, Hindus or Buddhists flying passenger jets into tall buildings.

E.T.A....Or, chucking homosexuals off of tall buildings, stoning women to death etc etc.

E.T.A....& Acid attacks.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 07:45:34 PM
Anti Muslim sentiment. It doesn't concern me.

Islam in the extreme form is a hateful, oppressive, barbaric & backwards ideology.

You don't see devout Christians, Hindus or Buddhists flying passenger jets into tall buildings.

E.T.A....Or, chucking homosexuals off of tall buildings, stoning women to death etc etc.

E.T.A....& Acid attacks.

Of course it doesn’t concern you....you’re not a Muslim.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 08:32:09 PM
So it isn’t ?
Racism is not acceptable, there are laws against it but it you will never be able to completely eradicate people’s prejudices, some of which are perhaps more understandable than others.  Perhaps a fear of Muslim immigration and what it may mean for the future of this country is not completely irrational?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 16, 2020, 10:35:08 PM
Racism is not acceptable, there are laws against it but it you will never be able to completely eradicate people’s prejudices, some of which are perhaps more understandable than others.  Perhaps a fear of Muslim immigration and what it may mean for the future of this country is not completely irrational?

In what way not completely irrational? Why more rational than fearing immigration from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean and while I agree that you will never completely eradicate people’s prejudices we must never stop calling them out for what they are, a stain on the British psyche.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 16, 2020, 10:59:57 PM
In what way not completely irrational? Why more rational than fearing immigration from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean and while I agree that you will never completely eradicate people’s prejudices we must never stop calling them out for what they are, a stain on the British psyche.
Because people from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean are not on a supposedly God given mission to convert us to their religions, laws, culture and customs.  Because people from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean don’t use their religion as an excuse to attack random strangers on London pavements with machetes.   Of course the majority of Muslims don’t do these things either, but unfortunately for them some of their more extreme brethren do, and this makes people wary and suspicious of the whole group.  Now, I consider myself a reasonable, rational person who is not a terrible racist but when I was stood on a London tube train and a young Muslim man in religious garb and a rucksack boarded the train and then fished out the Koran to read whilst standing right next to me, guess what thoughts were running through my head?  I didn’t move to the next carriage and I didn’t abuse him or give him filthy looks but I was apprehensive.  Is this completely irrational of me?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 08:43:35 AM
Because people from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean are not on a supposedly God given mission to convert us to their religions, laws, culture and customs.  Because people from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean don’t use their religion as an excuse to attack random strangers on London pavements with machetes.   Of course the majority of Muslims don’t do these things either, but unfortunately for them some of their more extreme brethren do, and this makes people wary and suspicious of the whole group.  Now, I consider myself a reasonable, rational person who is not a terrible racist but when I was stood on a London tube train and a young Muslim man in religious garb and a rucksack boarded the train and then fished out the Koran to read whilst standing right next to me, guess what thoughts were running through my head?  I didn’t move to the next carriage and I didn’t abuse him or give him filthy looks but I was apprehensive.  Is this completely irrational of me?

Absolutely irrational. Can I ask if, in the 70s, you felt nervous standing next to a gentleman from NI ? TBH you’re probably more endanger from some poor soul with schizophrenia not having the support they need than some machete welding terrorist. And I suppose the fact that the fastest growing terrorist threat in this country is from the far right doesn’t assuage you of your mindset....perhaps because you’re less likely to be a victim ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/19/fastest-growing-uk-terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 02:58:10 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/17/no-10-refuses-to-comment-on-pms-views-of-racial-iq

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2020, 05:57:26 PM
Absolutely irrational. Can I ask if, in the 70s, you felt nervous standing next to a gentleman from NI ? TBH you’re probably more endanger from some poor soul with schizophrenia not having the support they need than some machete welding terrorist. And I suppose the fact that the fastest growing terrorist threat in this country is from the far right doesn’t assuage you of your mindset....perhaps because you’re less likely to be a victim ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/19/fastest-growing-uk-terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police
Well it seems I was not alone
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4717251.stm
Would it be irrational of the same Muslim fellow I described to be apprehensive of a man on the same carriage with a skinhead and an EDL tattoo?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2020, 06:21:03 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/17/no-10-refuses-to-comment-on-pms-views-of-racial-iq
When the press go after Corbyn you find it a disgrace and symptomatic of the right wing media’s bias.  Now they are going for Boris, you seem to be all in favour of the guilt by association style reportage.  Strange isn’t it? 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2020, 07:10:31 PM
BTW, you seem to be rather obsessed with comparing people with Nazis, have you noticed?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 08:36:57 PM
Well it seems I was not alone
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4717251.stm
Would it be irrational of the same Muslim fellow I described to be apprehensive of a man on the same carriage with a skinhead and an EDL tattoo?

Both would be irrational however an EDL tattoo does suggest the man is a racist, reading the Koran doesn’t make the Muslim man a terrorist.

And I didn’t need a BBC headline to tell me your not alone in stereotyping Muslims, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 08:39:19 PM
When the press go after Corbyn you find it a disgrace and symptomatic of the right wing media’s bias.  Now they are going for Boris, you seem to be all in favour of the guilt by association style reportage.  Strange isn’t it?

Then Johnson needs to make his feelings clear re his advisor’s comments then there would be no chance of ambiguity.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 08:39:52 PM
BTW, you seem to be rather obsessed with comparing people with Nazis, have you noticed?

If the cap fits.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2020, 08:44:10 PM
Both would be irrational however an EDL tattoo does suggest the man is a racist, reading the Koran doesn’t make the Muslim man a terrorist.

And I didn’t need a BBC headline to tell me your not alone in stereotyping Muslims, unfortunately.
It’s perfectly understandable in the circs, and anyone claiming that such thoughts would never enter their mind in such a situation  is lying imo.  People are only human and it is only human to be wary of other humans who may possibly prove a threat in some way.  I used to be apprehensive of lone men walking behind me late night on the way home too.  I suppose that was completely irrational and sexist of me!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2020, 08:59:43 PM
Then Johnson needs to make his feelings clear re his advisor’s comments then there would be no chance of ambiguity.
And when he makes it clear that he does not support these views (as he invariably will have to) that will be the end of it as far as you’re concerned will it?  LOL.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 09:19:42 PM
It’s perfectly understandable in the circs, and anyone claiming that such thoughts would never enter their mind in such a situation  is lying imo.  People are only human and it is only human to be wary of other humans who may possibly prove a threat in some way.  I used to be apprehensive of lone men walking behind me late night on the way home too.  I suppose that was completely irrational and sexist of me!

It was irrational however keenly felt.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 09:20:33 PM
And when he makes it clear that he does not support these views (as he invariably will have to) that will be the end of it as far as you’re concerned will it?  LOL.

Let’s see what happens shall we ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
It was irrational however keenly felt.
IYO.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
IYO.

I think it’s just common sense. The man, in all likelihood was going to attack you just like the young man reading the Koran wasn’t a terrorist. In fact people are more likely to be crushed by their own furniture than be killed by a terrorist.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
I think it’s just common sense. The man, in all likelihood was going to attack you just like the young man reading the Koran wasn’t a terrorist. In fact people are more likely to be crushed by their own furniture than be killed by a terrorist.
Eh?  The man didn’t attack me, so was I wrong to quicken my step and clutch my keys in my hand as a weapon, just in case?
Are you seriously trying to tell me you have never been wary or apprehensive of a stranger based purely on their appearance, actions, utterances or what they were carrying?   
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 18, 2020, 01:25:39 AM
Eh?  The man didn’t attack me, so was I wrong to quicken my step and clutch my keys in my hand as a weapon, just in case?
Are you seriously trying to tell me you have never been wary or apprehensive of a stranger based purely on their appearance, actions, utterances or what they were carrying?

I’m telling you that it’s irrational to fear someone simply on appearance etc, etc, etc.

Can I ask, during the IRA bombing campaign did you fear everyone with an northern Irish accent ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2020, 07:31:39 AM
I’m telling you that it’s irrational to fear someone simply on appearance etc, etc, etc.

Can I ask, during the IRA bombing campaign did you fear everyone with an northern Irish accent ?
I once had to stay in the most bombed hotel in Europe, in Belfast once (in the early 90s) and I was certainly apprehensive about that.  The irony about all this is, that despite my apprehension (fear is too strong a word) I obviously preferred to be blown up than make a fuss or to appear unfriendly or racist.  In otherwords I was more fearful of being seen as a racist than I was of losing my life in a terrorist atrocity but nothing can legislate against the thoughts that went through my head which were quite understandable imo.  We make value judgements based on appearance  or behaviour  all the time, it’s human nature and you cannot say it is always irrational because sometimes it may be perfectly rational, theres no way of knowing in advance though, is there?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 18, 2020, 11:16:27 AM
I once had to stay in the most bombed hotel in Europe, in Belfast once (in the early 90s) and I was certainly apprehensive about that.  The irony about all this is, that despite my apprehension (fear is too strong a word) I obviously preferred to be blown up than make a fuss or to appear unfriendly or racist.  In otherwords I was more fearful of being seen as a racist than I was of losing my life in a terrorist atrocity but nothing can legislate against the thoughts that went through my head which were quite understandable imo.  We make value judgements based on appearance  or behaviour  all the time, it’s human nature and you cannot say it is always irrational because sometimes it may be perfectly rational, theres no way of knowing in advance though, is there?

All very interesting but you haven’t quite answered my question. In the 70s during the IRA bombing campaign did you fell apprehensive when hearing a northern Irish accent ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2020, 11:33:50 AM
All very interesting but you haven’t quite answered my question. In the 70s during the IRA bombing campaign did you fell apprehensive when hearing a northern Irish accent ?
I honestly never encountered a Northern Irish person in the 70s and would have been too young to mind if I had.  Now how about addressing some of my points? 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Erngath on February 18, 2020, 11:43:31 AM
I don't remember any IRA suicide bombers?

I'm sure the fact that many of these atrocities are carried out  by Muslim suicide bombers , willing to die themselves, does rather increase the fear and apprehension of the public.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2020, 12:12:49 PM
I don't remember any IRA suicide bombers?

I'm sure the fact that many of these atrocities are carried out  by Muslim suicide bombers , willing to die themselves, does rather increase the fear and apprehension of the public.
Exactly!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 18, 2020, 06:12:37 PM
I don't remember any IRA suicide bombers?

I'm sure the fact that many of these atrocities are carried out  by Muslim suicide bombers , willing to die themselves, does rather increase the fear and apprehension of the public.

I’m sure that the distinction would be lost on the families who lost loved ones in the troubles.

I’m not sure why a bomb which the bomber detonates from miles away is any different to a suicide bomber....they both kill. Could you explain please ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 18, 2020, 06:14:07 PM
Exactly!

Read my reply....perhaps you’d like to answer ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2020, 06:58:17 PM
I’m sure that the distinction would be lost on the families who lost loved ones in the troubles.

I’m not sure why a bomb which the bomber detonates from miles away is any different to a suicide bomber....they both kill. Could you explain please ?
do you really need it explaining?!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 18, 2020, 07:31:14 PM
do you really need it explaining?!

I’m afraid I do.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 01:19:36 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/dave-brit-awards-2020-black-lyrics-boris-johnson-racist-psychodrama-prime-minister-a9343201.html
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 01:21:32 AM
I’m afraid I do.
Oh dear, I am amazed you can’t see the difference.  If IRA terrorists are unlikely to blow themselves up on a tube train then standing next to someone with an Irish accent on the tube is unlikely to give one pause for concern for one’s immediate safety.  We do know however that Muslim terrorists frequently detonate themselves in their mission to take the lives of others and so therefore standing next to a mullah with a backpack clutching the Koran presents more of a concern.  Get it now?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 10:26:54 AM
Oh dear, I am amazed you can’t see the difference.  If IRA terrorists are unlikely to blow themselves up on a tube train then standing next to someone with an Irish accent on the tube is unlikely to give one pause for concern for one’s immediate safety.  We do know however that Muslim terrorists frequently detonate themselves in their mission to take the lives of others and so therefore standing next to a mullah with a backpack clutching the Koran presents more of a concern.  Get it now?

No IRA operatives demoted bombs from a distance that killed hundreds of people. In the 70s while standing on a tube you were just as likely to be in mortal danger from a planted bomb than a Muslim standing next to you yet you don’t taint all Irish people as terrorists. In fact in the 70s you were probably more in danger of a terrorist attack than now.
Anyhow I suppose your thinking on this matter shouldn’t come as surprise as you appear to view the Portuguese in the stereotypical fashion....the Mail has a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 11:53:32 AM
No IRA operatives demoted bombs from a distance that killed hundreds of people. In the 70s while standing on a tube you were just as likely to be in mortal danger from a planted bomb than a Muslim standing next to you yet you don’t taint all Irish people as terrorists. In fact in the 70s you were probably more in danger of a terrorist attack than now.
Anyhow I suppose your thinking on this matter shouldn’t come as surprise as you appear to view the Portuguese in the stereotypical fashion....the Mail has a lot to answer for.
you have completely moved the goalposts of your argument (not surprise there).  You asked if I would be fearful of someone with a north Irish accent.  Please explain why being in close proximity to someone with a North Irish accent should cause me to be concerned for my immediate safety in the way that standing next to a mullah with a rucksack and a Koran might?  I predict You will not be able to answer this question and will instead flim-flam and deflect.  Also, fyi I do not taint all Muslims as terrorists as you seem to be implying.

ETA: What Portuguese stereotypes have I referred to?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 05:03:48 PM
you have completely moved the goalposts of your argument (not surprise there).  You asked if I would be fearful of someone with a north Irish accent.  Please explain why being in close proximity to someone with a North Irish accent should cause me to be concerned for my immediate safety in the way that standing next to a mullah with a rucksack and a Koran might?  I predict You will not be able to answer this question and will instead flim-flam and deflect.  Also, fyi I do not taint all Muslims as terrorists as you seem to be implying.

ETA: What Portuguese stereotypes have I referred to?

Quoting the example of a perfectly respectable Muslim man going about his daily business as being someone who would somehow give you  ‘cause for concern for your immediate safety’ is painting all Muslims as potential terrorists whether you can see it or not.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 05:26:52 PM
Quoting the example of a perfectly respectable Muslim man going about his daily business as being someone who would somehow give you  ‘cause for concern for your immediate safety’ is painting all Muslims as potential terrorists whether you can see it or not.
Firstly no it's not as not all Muslims are devout, Koran carrying, robe wearing mullahs, and secondly, you don't know a thing about his respectability or otherwise.  He could have been a lovely decent chap or he could have been planning to hook-up with 42 virgins in the afterlife.  We will never know. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 05:58:40 PM
Firstly no it's not as not all Muslims are devout, Koran carrying, robe wearing mullahs, and secondly, you don't know a thing about his respectability or otherwise.  He could have been a lovely decent chap or he could have been planning to hook-up with 42 virgins in the afterlife.  We will never know.

So it’s the devout Muslims you’re worried about is it ? What do you think should happen ? Perhaps they should read the Koran in the privacy of their own home....you know, just to make you feel less apprehensive.....or, thinking outside the box, perhaps you should stop indulging in lazy, racist stereotypes....I’m sure that would make your mind a little easier ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:10:13 PM
So it’s the devout Muslims you’re worried about is it ? What do you think should happen ? Perhaps they should read the Koran in the privacy of their own home....you know, just to make you feel less apprehensive.....or, thinking outside the box, perhaps you should stop indulging in lazy, racist stereotypes....I’m sure that would make your mind a little easier ?
Can you dial down your hysterical ranting for one moment?  How about going back to the very first post I made on the subject and re-read what I wrote.  It was a very reasonable post.  I did not for one moment suggest that he shouldn’t have been on the train, nor that he shouldn’t have been reading the Koran.  I acknowledge that the problem was mine, not his, I was apprehensive in his presence, for IMO understandable reasons.  I made no attempt to express my apprehension, nor to make him feel in any way intimidated or uncomfortable.  You are completely intolerant of my point of view and incapable of seeing the situation from my point of view, why am I not surprised?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 06:18:08 PM
Can you dial down your hysterical ranting for one moment?  How about going back to the very first post I made on the subject and re-read what I wrote.  It was a very reasonable post.  I did not for one moment suggest that he shouldn’t have been on the train, nor that he shouldn’t have been reading the Koran.  I acknowledge that the problem was mine, not his, I was apprehensive in his presence, for IMO understandable reasons.  I made no attempt to express my apprehension, nor to make him feel in any way intimidated or uncomfortable.  You are completely intolerant of my point of view and incapable of seeing the situation from my point of view, why am I not surprised?

I agree, the problem was most definitely yours and yes I am intolerant of the stereotyping of individuals because of their race or religion.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:19:23 PM
“ I am British Asian. I was born here in London and I love the place. I have been travelling on the Northern Line to work every morning for the past 8 years without incident. After the recent bombings, I've noticed that I've been getting persistent looks and sneers on the underground. I also get the bus in the evenings to London Bridge and usually sit upstairs. There have been times when no one has sat next to me on a crowded bus. I don't look threatening in the slightest. I do have a beard although I'm not Muslim. Peoples reactions are understandable but they need to understand that I'm as terrified of being bombed as they are. I have a blog at www.bozoduck.blogspot.com
Bijal Shah, London, UK”

Thank you for your understanding Bijal, it’s more than Faithlilly possesses!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
I agree, the problem was most definitely yours and yes I am intolerant of the stereotyping of individuals because of their race or religion.
You are IMO in complete denial or lying if you are claiming that you don’t do this yourself.  Everyone does it.  It’s human nature.  You probably stereotype Tory toffs.  Be honest for once. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:23:52 PM
“. It is almost impossible not to look around you as get onto a train these days. I know I have done it and sat there worried. The only worry you have is what you'd do if you think someone does look suspicious. You won't want to challenge them but you won't want to move away for fear of inciting panic and insulting to the person who will almost certainly turn out to be innocent of nothing more than going to work with their gym kit.”
Mat Fletcher, Stevenage

Yes Mat, you’re quite right, but then you’re just being a normal, honest person, not claiming to be holier-than-thou like some people.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:25:57 PM
“I love living in London and one of the things I enjoy the most is the International City aspect. I travel on the Northern Line to work everyday and the mood has changed for the worse. I really feel sorry for my fellow commuters that people would regard as of Muslim appearance. But I think considering the loss of life so far it is totally understandable the people are a lot more aware of the people around them”.
craig, London, ex-New Zealand

Yup Craig, it is totally understandable. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 06:39:28 PM
“ I am British Asian. I was born here in London and I love the place. I have been travelling on the Northern Line to work every morning for the past 8 years without incident. After the recent bombings, I've noticed that I've been getting persistent looks and sneers on the underground. I also get the bus in the evenings to London Bridge and usually sit upstairs. There have been times when no one has sat next to me on a crowded bus. I don't look threatening in the slightest. I do have a beard although I'm not Muslim. Peoples reactions are understandable but they need to understand that I'm as terrified of being bombed as they are. I have a blog at www.bozoduck.blogspot.com
Bijal Shah, London, UK”

Thank you for your understanding Bijal, it’s more than Faithlilly possesses!

You feel justified by Bijal’s comment....I simply feel ashamed.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:43:59 PM
You feel justified by Bijal’s comment....I simply feel ashamed.
Bless you, why should you feel ashamed?  You are a prefect specimen of tolerance and entirely racist-free.  You are untainted as I and many others are by perfectly normal human fears and foibles.  Rejoice for you are the superior being.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 06:47:21 PM
You are IMO in complete denial or lying if you are claiming that you don’t do this yourself.  Everyone does it.  It’s human nature.  You probably stereotype Tory toffs.  Be honest for once.

You really can’t see beyond your own lazy racism, can you ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 06:50:40 PM
Bless you, why should you feel ashamed?  You are a prefect specimen of tolerance and entirely racist-free.  You are untainted as I and many others are by perfectly normal human fears and foibles.  Rejoice for you are the superior being.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 06:57:47 PM
You really can’t see beyond your own lazy racism, can you ?
Unlike you, I am very clear sighted, honest and candid with my opinions.  I acknowledge that I am not perfect and that one shouldn’t judge by appearances but that one can’t help doing so because it is part of the human condition.  The best I can offer is kindness and to treat people fairly and without prejudice in my day to day dealings with them.  If that makes me a lazy racist in your eyes, then fine, at least I’m not a sanctimonious, self-deluding prig.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 07:15:15 PM
Unlike you, I am very clear sighted, honest and candid with my opinions.  I acknowledge that I am not perfect and that one shouldn’t judge by appearances but that one can’t help doing so because it is part of the human condition.  The best I can offer is kindness and to treat people fairly and without prejudice in my day to day dealings with them.  If that makes me a lazy racist in your eyes, then fine, at least I’m not a sanctimonious, self-deluding prig.

Funny that’s exactly how you come across.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 19, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Funny that’s exactly how you come across.
So I’m a lazy racist AND a sanctimonious, self-deluding prig?  LOL, OK, whatever.  Now you’ve uncovered my alleged racism it’s probably time you returned to searching out news stories about the racist Tories, don’t you think?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2020, 11:58:18 PM
So I’m a lazy racist AND a sanctimonious, self-deluding prig?  LOL, OK, whatever.  Now you’ve uncovered my alleged racism it’s probably time you returned to searching out news stories about the racist Tories, don’t you think?

Bless, you do make me chuckle VS.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2020, 07:15:53 AM
Bless, you do make me chuckle VS.
I really don’t think so.  Now, you’ve made the last few pages of this thread all about me (flattered by the attention obvs), isn’t it time you resumed your hunt for more Tory racist fodder?  Is Priti Patel a lazy racist in your view?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 20, 2020, 09:40:26 AM
I really don’t think so.  Now, you’ve made the last few pages of this thread all about me (flattered by the attention obvs), isn’t it time you resumed your hunt for more Tory racist fodder?  Is Priti Patel a lazy racist in your view?

No I think Patel is a populist who knows exactly what buttons to push with the British public.

Glad to see Sabiksy is gone though it would have been better for Johnson’s reputation if he had been sacked rather than resigned. Still no word from him though on Sabisky’s musings on eugenics.....and on Cumming’s blog too so no one can claim ignorance.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 20, 2020, 11:16:20 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/19/immigration-proposal-english-language
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 21, 2020, 12:28:03 AM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/home-office-is-institutionally-racist-said-report-into-windrush-scandal-76w9mrw2w

https://www.ein.org.uk/blog/home-office-comes-under-fire-allegations-institutional-racism-surface

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/sajid-javid-home-office-hostile-environment.html
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on February 21, 2020, 12:46:49 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dave-racist-boris-johnson-brit-awards-theresa-may-a9344791.html
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 02, 2020, 09:23:56 PM
No I think Patel is a populist who knows exactly what buttons to push with the British public.

Glad to see Sabiksy is gone though it would have been better for Johnson’s reputation if he had been sacked rather than resigned. Still no word from him though on Sabisky’s musings on eugenics.....and on Cumming’s blog too so no one can claim ignorance.

Or maybe she speaks from listening to the great British public majority?   Was Sabisky employed on the basis of his previous online chat ?  he was sacked for this.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 02, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
Or maybe she speaks from listening to the great British public majority?   Was Sabisky employed on the basis of his previous online chat ?  he was sacked for this.
He wasn’t sacked.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on March 03, 2020, 11:11:48 AM
Or maybe she speaks from listening to the great British public majority?   Was Sabisky employed on the basis of his previous online chat ?  he was sacked for this.

Who she described ‘as the worst idlers in Europe’...that British public ?

Sabisky resigned.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 03, 2020, 10:55:53 PM
Who she described ‘as the worst idlers in Europe’...that British public ?

Sabisky resigned.

Yes we do have a great many jobs and work shy people. No problem hearing that.

Sabisky resigned - yes I was going to correct that on VS quote.

Having said that... he was pretending to be a agony uncle online and was playing the fool.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on March 03, 2020, 11:38:51 PM
Yes we do have a great many jobs and work shy people. No problem hearing that.

Sabisky resigned - yes I was going to correct that on VS quote.

Having said that... he was pretending to be a agony uncle online and was playing the fool.

You obviously wish to give this deplorable character the benefit of the doubt...your choice. I’m just glad he resigned.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 04, 2020, 08:50:20 PM
You obviously wish to give this deplorable character the benefit of the doubt...your choice. I’m just glad he resigned.

If I wanted to give him any benefit of doubt I would have said it straight up. I was telling what I read. I do not know if it is true or not and don't care. He is deplorable and pathetic and I would have sacked him had he not left., if he was in my employ.

The issue here is about point scoring, and blaming others without looking at the whole picture. A great many politicians are IMO: morally bankrupt, greedy, selfish, only after the top job. They come in all shapes. sizes races,colours and political persuasions.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on March 06, 2020, 10:31:45 AM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/muslim-council-reveals-300-islamophobia-21640080

Muslim Council reveals 300 Islamophobia cases in the Tories in damning dossier
The submission to the Equality and Human Rights Commission contains allegations against 16 MPs, one MEP, nine election candidates and 183 party members according to the MCB. They want the body to investigate the party

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The Muslim Council of Britain has sent a dossier of 300 cases of alleged Islamophobia of members of the Conservative Party including claims about MPs, party members, councillors and advisers to Prime Minister Boris Johnson to the Equalities watchdog.

The dossier sent to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) and seen by the Mirror also reiterates allegations of Islamophobia against the Prime Minister.

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The submission contains allegations against 16 MPs, one MEP, nine election candidates and 183 party members, among others, according to the MCB.

MCB secretary general Harun Khan said the Tories have a "systemic and widespread" Islamophobia crisis and accused the party of "denial, dismissal and deceit".

He criticised the EHRC for having "failed to give any response" to its first formal call for the watchdog to investigate in May and urged it to now take "swift action".

The Tories have committed to an inquiry into all forms of discrimination within the party but have resisted calls to set up an independent inquiry into Islamophobia specifically.


Harun Rashid Khan, Secretary General Muslim Council of Britain. (Image: Rehan Jamil)
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The MCB, which represents mosques, schools and charitable associations, handed its first document to the EHRC in May detailing about 150 individuals it believes have displayed Islamophobia or made anti-Islam or anti-Muslim comments.

But in renewing its calls for the EHRC to investigate it has submitted a document which has swelled to include double the number of claims.

Mr Khan said it was "extraordinary" that the watchdog has not announced whether it will take action in the 10 months since the first document was submitted.

"There is no doubt that the Conservative Party has an Islamophobia crisis: it is institutional, systemic and widespread. The party's response has been one of denial, dismissal and deceit," he said.

"This results in clear discrimination against Muslims because of their religion.

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"The absence of meaningful action by the Conservative Party despite the wealth of evidence makes it all the more important that the EHRC recognises the impact of this level of Islamophobia in our governing party, and takes swift action."

An EHRC spokeswoman said the watchdog was still waiting for the Tories to reveal the terms of its inquiry while considering a decision.

"We are actively considering what, if any, action we may take in relation to the handling of Islamophobia and other discrimination within the Conservative Party," she said.

"We are also awaiting the final terms of reference of the party's independent review which we will consider as part of our decision making process."


Daniel Kawczynski (Image: AFP/Getty Images)
Allegations added to the dossier include:

- The PM's chief adviser Dominic Cummings orchestrating the Vote Leave campaign playing on "fears of immigration and hate against Muslims", including when claiming Muslim-majority country Turkey was joining the EU.


- Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski being reprimanded but not suspended over speaking at a conference alongside far-right leaders.

- New MP Dehenna Davison being pictured with two far-right activists, one of whom was allegedly pictured burning a Koran next to a message with a racial slur reading "f*** P****". She has said the pictures were taken at a public event and that she "in no way whatsoever" condones their views.


Dominic Cummings (Image: Getty)
- Karl McCartney, who is also from the new intake of Tory MPs, retweeting posts by the anti-Islam activist known as Tommy Robinson.

- Sally-Ann Hart, another newcomer, describing as an "affecting read" an anti-Islam activist's article claiming the women's march against Donald Trump had been hijacked to promote the "Muslim agenda".

- Andrew Sabisky, who was forced to stand down as an adviser over numerous comments, using a discredited statistic forecasting the UK to be a "majority Islamic nation" by 2050.

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The MCB submission includes the "dehumanising and offensive" remarks by the PM in which he likened Muslim women who wear a veil to "bank robbers" and "letter boxes".


During the general election campaign, he apologised for "all the hurt and offence" that had been caused to the Muslim community by Islamophobia within the party.

The PM has insisted the party has a "zero-tolerance approach" to Islamophobia, but the MCB said "this does not appear to be the case".

The Conservatives and all the individuals named in this report have been contacted for comment apart from Mr Sabisky, who has not been contactable.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 07, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/muslim-council-reveals-300-islamophobia-21640080

Muslim Council reveals 300 Islamophobia cases in the Tories in damning dossier
The submission to the Equality and Human Rights Commission contains allegations against 16 MPs, one MEP, nine election candidates and 183 party members according to the MCB. They want the body to investigate the party

SHARE
 
2974
SHARES

The dossier contains allegations against the PM (Image: WILL OLIVER/POOL/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock)
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We will use your email address only for sending you newsletters. Please see ourPrivacy Noticefor details of your data protection rights
The Muslim Council of Britain has sent a dossier of 300 cases of alleged Islamophobia of members of the Conservative Party including claims about MPs, party members, councillors and advisers to Prime Minister Boris Johnson to the Equalities watchdog.

The dossier sent to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) and seen by the Mirror also reiterates allegations of Islamophobia against the Prime Minister.

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Ads by Teads
The submission contains allegations against 16 MPs, one MEP, nine election candidates and 183 party members, among others, according to the MCB.

MCB secretary general Harun Khan said the Tories have a "systemic and widespread" Islamophobia crisis and accused the party of "denial, dismissal and deceit".

He criticised the EHRC for having "failed to give any response" to its first formal call for the watchdog to investigate in May and urged it to now take "swift action".

The Tories have committed to an inquiry into all forms of discrimination within the party but have resisted calls to set up an independent inquiry into Islamophobia specifically.


Harun Rashid Khan, Secretary General Muslim Council of Britain. (Image: Rehan Jamil)
RELATED ARTICLES

Rory Stewart opposes rent controls after pocketing £20,000 in rental income

Donald Trump tweets racial slur as Elizabeth Warren drops out of US election
The MCB, which represents mosques, schools and charitable associations, handed its first document to the EHRC in May detailing about 150 individuals it believes have displayed Islamophobia or made anti-Islam or anti-Muslim comments.

But in renewing its calls for the EHRC to investigate it has submitted a document which has swelled to include double the number of claims.

Mr Khan said it was "extraordinary" that the watchdog has not announced whether it will take action in the 10 months since the first document was submitted.

"There is no doubt that the Conservative Party has an Islamophobia crisis: it is institutional, systemic and widespread. The party's response has been one of denial, dismissal and deceit," he said.

"This results in clear discrimination against Muslims because of their religion.

READ MORE
Tory fury at Budget 'fuel duty rise' plan which would 'flip a V-sign' at voters
"The absence of meaningful action by the Conservative Party despite the wealth of evidence makes it all the more important that the EHRC recognises the impact of this level of Islamophobia in our governing party, and takes swift action."

An EHRC spokeswoman said the watchdog was still waiting for the Tories to reveal the terms of its inquiry while considering a decision.

"We are actively considering what, if any, action we may take in relation to the handling of Islamophobia and other discrimination within the Conservative Party," she said.

"We are also awaiting the final terms of reference of the party's independent review which we will consider as part of our decision making process."


Daniel Kawczynski (Image: AFP/Getty Images)
Allegations added to the dossier include:

- The PM's chief adviser Dominic Cummings orchestrating the Vote Leave campaign playing on "fears of immigration and hate against Muslims", including when claiming Muslim-majority country Turkey was joining the EU.


- Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski being reprimanded but not suspended over speaking at a conference alongside far-right leaders.

- New MP Dehenna Davison being pictured with two far-right activists, one of whom was allegedly pictured burning a Koran next to a message with a racial slur reading "f*** P****". She has said the pictures were taken at a public event and that she "in no way whatsoever" condones their views.


Dominic Cummings (Image: Getty)
- Karl McCartney, who is also from the new intake of Tory MPs, retweeting posts by the anti-Islam activist known as Tommy Robinson.

- Sally-Ann Hart, another newcomer, describing as an "affecting read" an anti-Islam activist's article claiming the women's march against Donald Trump had been hijacked to promote the "Muslim agenda".

- Andrew Sabisky, who was forced to stand down as an adviser over numerous comments, using a discredited statistic forecasting the UK to be a "majority Islamic nation" by 2050.

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The MCB submission includes the "dehumanising and offensive" remarks by the PM in which he likened Muslim women who wear a veil to "bank robbers" and "letter boxes".


During the general election campaign, he apologised for "all the hurt and offence" that had been caused to the Muslim community by Islamophobia within the party.

The PM has insisted the party has a "zero-tolerance approach" to Islamophobia, but the MCB said "this does not appear to be the case".

The Conservatives and all the individuals named in this report have been contacted for comment apart from Mr Sabisky, who has not been contactable.


The Muslim council of Great Britain?  nice people?  ermmm ummm

Daniel Kawczynski (Image: AFP/Getty Images)
Allegations added to the dossier include:

- The PM's chief adviser Dominic Cummings orchestrating the Vote Leave campaign playing on "fears of immigration and hate against Muslims", including when claiming Muslim-majority country Turkey was joining the EU.

The orchestration was actually led by Tony Blair et el who opened up the borders  in the UK, and we were forced to take ‘refugees’ mostly young males of fighting age with sex drives which have been reported and played down for many years!  We don’t know how many claiming to be child refugees and infiltrating our schools, collages.

- Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski being reprimanded but not suspended over speaking at a conference alongside   far-right leader.

So it is OK to speak with the far left Stalinists?  Who gets to decide where people speak? No Platforming is a Stalin driven ideology. And we know he slaughtered millions of innocent citizens for doing just that!

- New MP Dehenna Davison being pictured with two far-right activists, one of whom was allegedly pictured burning a Koran next to a message with a racial slur reading "f*** P****". She has said the pictures were taken at a public event and that she "in no way whatsoever" condones their views.

And there was no apologies when the British flag was being burned in London by  ‘peaceful Muslims’ b the Muslim council of Great Britain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uig1nYdZnrA

Real free speech!

Dominic Cummings (Image: Getty)
- Karl McCartney, who is also from the new intake of Tory MPs, retweeting posts by the anti-Islam activist known as Tommy Robinson.

Why is Tommy Robinson being singled out? we have terrorists living among us- MUSLIM terrorists- should we not be concerned about this? Are we to stay silent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7xhNYJV430

- Sally-Ann Hart, another newcomer, describing as an "affecting read" an anti-Islam activist's article claiming the women's march against Donald Trump had been hijacked to promote the "Muslim agenda".

So say some who are allowed to say what they think…

- Andrew Sabisky, who was forced to stand down as an adviser over numerous comments, using a discredited statistic forecasting the UK to be a "majority Islamic nation" by 2050.

Yes, who buries that idea? Probably by the Jews and other Islamophobic people= majority of the UK non  Muslim communities  perhaps?  poor them!


I find it astonishing, that there are many on the left who take up the mantra of the fundamentalist Muslim ideology, who are known to persecute other Muslims from different races and British born Muslims within their community.   There is no such thing as islamophobia, this is a made up word to protect those who would harm anyone who doesn’t uptake their will to change the west.

This is my favourite ‘Islamophobic’  man- right wing Nazi- he should be imprisoned for 50 years!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVR_WxWWLek

This is also happening  in Scotland …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_vRCOtr1Mw
 
 lets shut them all up!





Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Mortis on April 01, 2020, 01:29:39 AM
And what do they need to do to tackle it ?

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/12/02/the-tory-racism-problem-is-as-severe-as-labour-s

As a Jewish person who supports the Labour party, it's fair to say that last week was not fun.

The Chief Rabbi's condemnation of Labour was a depressing moment. Jeremy Corbyn's failure to apologise on television for the hurt caused to the Jewish community was intensely frustrating. But for me the nadir came in a tweet from Michael Gove.

He was responding to the historian Sir Richard Evans, who had written that he was planning to vote Labour. With his characteristic pious charm, Gove pronounced: "History teaches us where a failure to stand up to anti-semitism leads – which is why it is all the sadder to see this historian of the twentieth century fail to heed its lessons."

Never mind that Evans has spent his career explaining the rise of Nazism and helped demolish the reputation of a prominent Holocaust denier. Never mind that during the referendum campaign Gove compared pro-EU experts to Nazi scientists. Here was a Cabinet minister, standing on an overtly xenophobic and nationalistic election platform, daring to lecture us about the dangers of racism and implicitly likening the threat of Corbyn to that of Adolf Hitler.

There is a real crisis of anti-semitism in this country, across the political spectrum. It has in recent years taken root in a fringe of the left. The Labour party dismally failed in its early response. But under no circumstances will a party that has promoted racist exclusionary politics all my life presume to speak for me or defend my interests.

Perhaps we should remind ourselves about the credentials of our new 'anti-racist' party. In the last ten years, the Conservative government unveiled the hostile environment, which systematically dehumanised immigrants, split up families and overwhelmingly discriminated against non-white people. That government dispatched the famously friendly 'Go Home' vans. Under Theresa May's watch, black Britons were denied medical treatment or deported in the Windrush scandal. And the drum-beat of English nationalism reached a crescendo as Gove and Boris Johnson deliberately terrified voters during the referendum campaign with the fake prospect of 76 million Turks imminently arriving in Britain through an open door.

In this election campaign, the health secretary has already dog-whistled about the 'International Health Service' in reference to an imaginary problem about foreign users of the NHS. Last week a Tory press release described the "strain" placed on schools by children from the EU "increasing the demand for places". In both cases the party has explicitly aped the language of the far right.

But of course the Tories have form when it comes to election campaigns. We have already forgotten Zac Goldsmith's scorched-earth pursuit of the London mayoralty in 2016, which advised voters with Indian-sounding surnames that Sadiq Khan was planning a tax on family heirlooms, labelled his Muslim opponent with the coded word "radical", and culminated with a Goldsmith op-ed in the Daily Mail painting Khan as a friend of terrorists and illustrated by the bus blown up on 7/7. Johnson, incidentally, joined that campaign wholeheartedly and himself wrote that Khan was "pandering to extremists".

Funnily enough, there was also a prominent politician of Jewish origin who fell victim to coded right-wing smears. The Tory machine was never so crass to shout about Ed Miliband's ethnicity, but the constant pictures of the bacon sandwich, references to 'north London', and, worst of all, the declaration by then-Cabinet minister Michael Fallon that "Ed Miliband stabbed his own brother in the back to become Labour leader" and was now "willing to stab the United Kingdom in the back to become prime minister" did the job well enough.

Fallon's remark invoked the notorious 'stab in the back' myth from the Weimar Republic and recalled the anti-semitic trope about Jews' supposed lack of loyalty to their adopted countries. It neatly echoed the Daily Mail's earlier assault on Miliband's father Ralph, a war hero and refugee from the Nazis, as a man who "hated Britain".

The Conservatives have been perfectly comfortable with anti-semites for years. As recently as Thursday, Theresa May unveiled a statue of the notorious anti-semite Nancy Astor, who proposed that Hitler might solve the "world problem" of Jews. The Tories have proved cheerleaders in the European parliament for Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, who propelled the anti-semitic abuse against George Soros into its own category of electioneering.

Then, of course, there is the Conservative party's endemic Islamophobia. This does not simply relate to parliamentary candidates, but also the membership. A YouGov poll in June found that 40% of members wanted to place limits on the number of Muslims permitted to enter the country, and 43% would object to a Muslim prime minister.

This problem attracts a distinct double standard. Imagine if a senior Labour figure had ridiculed orthodox Jewish attire, or if a shadow Cabinet minister had told Margaret Hodge to take a more "balanced" approach to antisemitism, as Matt Hancock advised Baroness Warsi regarding Islamophobia. Last Tuesday the prime minister helpfully declared that anyone in the party "done for Islamophobia" would be "out first bounce". Sadly the man who likened women wearing the burka to letter-boxes and bank robbers remains the party's leader.

This election is not just dragging in Jews and Muslims. The Conservatives are additionally managing to persuade Hindus that Labour is anti-Indian, following Labour's conference motion condemning the Indian government's recent actions in Kashmir. No matter that ministers have described this as an "international issue" and expressed their concerns with Indian counterparts. Communities must be pitched against one another. Ethnicity must be weaponised. People must be scared, divided and ruled.

This is not about which racism is worse, but which electoral path will do the most to tackle it. A party which opportunistically instrumentalises racism, and uses the anguish of the Jewish community to cleanse both its past record and current platform, will never be a champion of tolerant or progressive politics. It will throw any number of people under the bus to secure victory.

We need to talk about the antisemitism problem in the Labour party. But let it never be said the Tories don't care about racism. They literally depend on it.

Jonathan Lis is deputy director of the pro-EU think tank British Influence and a political writer and commentator.
This is utter poison.
I have never seen* such a load of utter horse sh** in my life.
* Windrush aside, this was really badly handled but there was no racist intent at all.
How can you ask the question is the Tory party... then ask what they need to do to tackle it.
 
I see nothing but agenda in your post to be honest.

Do you think it feasible to have a muslim Prime Minister?
Would it be feasible in every country in the world?
Does it even matter?
You seem to offer several occasions of racism in the Tory party as a reason for the (probably less serious, in your opinion) anti semitic views and acts of The Labour Party.
I don’t know, but the Labour Party are staunch supporters of Palestine, I’m not.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 01, 2020, 06:04:36 PM
How can you ask the question is the Tory party... then ask what they need to do to tackle it.
 
I see nothing but agenda in your post to be honest.

Do you think it feasible to have a muslim Prime Minister?
Would it be feasible in every country in the world?
Does it even matter?
You seem to offer several occasions of racism in the Tory party as a reason for the (probably less serious, in your opinion) anti semitic views and acts of The Labour Party.
I don’t know, but the Labour Party are staunch supporters of Palestine, I’m not.

Have you been sniffing your tippex again ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Mortis on April 01, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Hmmm, ok I give up. You’re obviously not interested so I assume that you think my post unworthy of reasonable reply.
Please try to remember that it’s quite possible that not everyone has had the same opportunities as yourself. I may not be as well informed, I don’t pretend to be clever or well educated but I see support for a Labour Party steeped in hatred for so many causes which are dear to me.
I have no interest in annoying or boring you or anyone else.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 01, 2020, 09:30:13 PM
Hmmm, ok I give up. You’re obviously not interested so I assume that you think my post unworthy of reasonable reply.
Please try to remember that it’s quite possible that not everyone has had the same opportunities as yourself. I may not be as well informed, I don’t pretend to be clever or well educated but I see support for a Labour Party steeped in hatred for so many causes which are dear to me.
I have no interest in annoying or boring you or anyone else.
Faithlilly specialises in ad homs and spiteful personal remarks, it’s best to leave her to stew in her own juices imo. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Mortis on April 01, 2020, 09:52:21 PM
You appear to be totally correct. Thank you!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 01, 2020, 11:15:40 PM
Hmmm, ok I give up. You’re obviously not interested so I assume that you think my post unworthy of reasonable reply.
Please try to remember that it’s quite possible that not everyone has had the same opportunities as yourself. I may not be as well informed, I don’t pretend to be clever or well educated but I see support for a Labour Party steeped in hatred for so many causes which are dear to me.
I have no interest in annoying or boring you or anyone else.

And I see a Tory party steeped in hatred of the poor and vulnerable...causes very dear to me. So where does that leave us ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 01, 2020, 11:17:38 PM
You appear to be totally correct. Thank you!

I just don’t suffer fools gladly....what can I say ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Mortis on April 02, 2020, 12:01:15 AM
Say that whilst you’re looking in the mirror, you fool.
What can you say?
Well I suppose an apology would be in order, but I’m not expecting one from You. Whats the point
You’re not worth the effort
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 02, 2020, 12:14:17 AM
Say that whilst you’re looking in the mirror, you fool.
What can you say?
Well I suppose an apology would be in order, but I’m not expecting one from You. Whats the point
You’re not worth the effort

I’m sure you’re a lovely chap filled with the milk of human kindness....just not for Labour members or the Palestinians....and that’s where it gets sticky....but hey you’re entitled to your opinion, and I’m sure you’ll agree that I’m entitled to mine.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
I just don’t suffer fools gladly....what can I say ?

Perhaps it is time that you tried.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2020, 06:47:31 PM
Perhaps it is time that you tried.

I’m afraid it’s the way I’m wired Eleanor. Can’t stand injustice of an kind, whether by word or deed.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2020, 06:50:56 PM
I’m afraid it’s the way I’m wired Eleanor. Can’t stand injustice of an kind, whether by word or deed.

No one is in a position to assume that someone else is a fool.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 03, 2020, 06:56:25 PM
Virtue-signalling - don’t it make you slightly nauseous?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2020, 11:57:20 PM
No one is in a position to assume that someone else is a fool.

Like the old saying goes ‘It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.’
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 06, 2020, 05:51:33 PM
And I see a Tory party steeped in hatred of the poor and vulnerable...causes very dear to me. So where does that leave us ?

Faith, you are coming across as being intolerant of other peoples views, and accusing those who don't share it as having to suffer fools, is what people expect from left wing luvvies.  It is worth noting that among those 'poor and vulnerable' people whom you care about they are racists and Nazis in that mix  do you want to 'save' them too?

I read your posts as someone who cannot see beyond their own view point.

I would argue that the Tory party is NOT awash with Islamophobic, racists, Nazis, there may be some who have an opinion about certain people. That is their business,until it spills over to laws of segregation.

The labour party have always raised taxes for the 'working man' they did nothing about the ofshore accounts of which many labour MPs and families made good from and what have the kinnocks done -apart from slurp from that EU gravy train.

Poverty is not a Tory problem it is a social problem!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2020, 06:17:58 PM
Faith, you are coming across as being intolerant of other peoples views, and accusing those who don't share it as having to suffer fools, is what people expect from left wing luvvies.  It is worth noting that among those 'poor and vulnerable' people whom you care about they are racists and Nazis in that mix  do you want to 'save' them too?

I read your posts as someone who cannot see beyond their own view point.

I would argue that the Tory party is NOT awash with Islamophobic, racists, Nazis, there may be some who have an opinion about certain people. That is their business,until it spills over to laws of segregation.

The labour party have always raised taxes for the 'working man' they did nothing about the ofshore accounts of which many labour MPs and families made good from and what have the kinnocks done -apart from slurp from that EU gravy train.

Poverty is not a Tory problem it is a social problem!

My, my MTI you accuse me of calling people names by....mmmm....calling me names.

The rest is just your usual stream of consciousness, containing all the usual suspects.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 06, 2020, 06:33:10 PM
My, my MTI you accuse me of calling people names by....mmmm....calling me names.

The rest is just your usual stream of consciousness, containing all the usual suspects.

What names did I call you?

I may have hit a nerve as you didn't seem to want to reply to my claim:
"The labour party have always raised taxes for the 'working man' they did nothing about the ofshore accounts of which many labour MPs and families made good from and what have the kinnocks done -apart from slurp from that EU gravy train.

Poverty is not a Tory problem it is a social problem! "


ofcourse it can't be challenged because it is true.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2020, 06:43:58 PM
What names did I call you?

I may have hit a nerve as you didn't seem to want to reply to my claim:
"The labour party have always raised taxes for the 'working man' they did nothing about the ofshore accounts of which many labour MPs and families made good from and what have the kinnocks done -apart from slurp from that EU gravy train.

Poverty is not a Tory problem it is a social problem! "


ofcourse it can't be challenged because it is true.

You make statements that you proffer no evidence for....that’s why I haven’t challenged your statements.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 06, 2020, 08:51:45 PM
You make statements that you proffer no evidence for....that’s why I haven’t challenged your statements.


You never mentioned the name I called you?

The tax increases were quite a hike according to my parents in 90's under bliar. The argument was pretencious as the calimmwas tax goes up when earnings go up -however if earnings don't up then you are goosed. My parents also said they added tax to insurance, holidays,gas,electric and many other services so it wasn't income tax! Sly Bstrds

https://www.ifs.org.uk/budgets/gb2005/05chap6.pdf

Hypocrisy is here- just one to name many

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-chief-given-pound15m-shares-from-tax-haven-ghpz37wn2kp


AND well hidden for many...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/28/tony-blair-sought-eu-funding-trying-stop-brexit/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/dec/17/mystery-tony-blairs-money-solved


Is the labour party really out to help the poor and vulnerable? OR to help themselves and their families?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

Food bank anyone?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 06, 2020, 09:23:44 PM

You never mentioned the name I called you?

The tax increases were quite a hike according to my parents in 90's under bliar. The argument was pretencious as the calimmwas tax goes up when earnings go up -however if earnings don't up then you are goosed. My parents also said they added tax to insurance, holidays,gas,electric and many other services so it wasn't income tax! Sly Bstrds

https://www.ifs.org.uk/budgets/gb2005/05chap6.pdf

Hypocrisy is here- just one to name many

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-chief-given-pound15m-shares-from-tax-haven-ghpz37wn2kp


AND well hidden for many...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/28/tony-blair-sought-eu-funding-trying-stop-brexit/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/dec/17/mystery-tony-blairs-money-solved


Is the labour party really out to help the poor and vulnerable? OR to help themselves and their families?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

Food bank anyone?

Anything more relevant....say from the last 5 years ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 07, 2020, 10:28:20 PM
Anything more relevant....say from the last 5 years ?


 Probably and on both sides of the house, but 1. I can't be bothered to look them up and 2. it shows up the labour party as greedy b@strds much the same as Tory ones. but I can be independent and see wrong on both sides.
others only see one side and hate on the other. as far as I am concerned that is pointless.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 07, 2020, 11:31:13 PM


 Probably and on both sides of the house, but 1. I can't be bothered to look them up and 2. it shows up the labour party as greedy b@strds much the same as Tory ones. but I can be independent and see wrong on both sides.
others only see one side and hate on the other. as far as I am concerned that is pointless.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/06/jeremy-corbyn-labour-will-chase-down-tax-dodgers
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 12:02:54 PM
The damning Windrush scandal review has been buried under the coronavirus crisis for a reason
The report tells the tragic story of what happens when the state stops listening. We cannot let the government conceal this, writes Satbir Singh



UNPACKING OUR BORDER OBSESSION

Friday 20 March 2020 15:16
 
EPA
Experts and facts really matter. And, if the crisis currently gripping the nation has taught us anything, it’s that government works better for all of us when politicians listen to facts and reason, even (or perhaps especially) when the facts don’t tell a story the powerful want to hear. But yesterday’s damning report of the Windrush Lessons Learned review, commissioned in the wake of the Windrush Scandal, lays bare the reality of a Home Office that’s hostile not only to migrants but to anybody who disagrees with it. If we’re to avoid another tragedy, this has to change.

For decades, governments of all colours have been warned that the political scapegoating and demonising of migrants and minorities and the use of ever-more hostile legislation to restrict our rights and freedoms would inevitably lead to tragedy. Communities, academics, journalists, campaigners – even judges and civil servants – have produced reams of evidence, sat on committees and met with MPs and ministers to beg for even a moment’s consideration for the mothers and fathers, friends and communities whose lives are shattered every time the despatch box is used to announce a new set of "measures" designed to punish us for political gain.

 
The compensation scheme traps Windrush victims in a cycle of debt
 
The Windrush scandal was no mistake – it was a failure on every level
 
Home Office showed ‘institutional ignorance towards race’
 
Windrush draft 'branding Home Office racist was watered down'
 
The proof that ministers haven’t learnt the lessons from Windrush

From the 1971 Immigration Act, introduced with the explicit goal of curtailing the rights of "coloured people", to the passage of David Cameron and Theresa May’s twisted "hostile environment" laws in 2012 and 2014, there has been no shortage of effort from concerned groups and experts to try to work with government to do and be better. But our pleas and our offers have invariably fallen on deaf ears. Home secretaries and prime ministers have come and gone, but in the dark recesses of Whitehall and Tufton Street, the goal has always been the same: if you run the NHS into ruin or fail to build enough houses, you can always blame the migrants for everything, announce ever-more punitive laws and hope that a big enough wedge of focus-grouped marginal voters will hear the dog-whistles and join your witch-hunt.


This routine seemed so well-rehearsed by 2012 that, even in the face of strong opposition from other cabinet ministers, and stark warnings of the effects they would have on long-resident Commonwealth nationals, the Cameron-May government felt confident enough in the political calculus to push ahead with draconian laws conscripting landlords, doctors, nurses and teachers as the all-seeing eyes of their hostile environment.

Allegations briefly swirled about a minister being sacked over his position on the now-infamous "Go Home" vans sent to neighbourhoods like mine. And Cameron is reported to have stormed out of a meeting with then communities secretary, Eric Pickles, after a disagreement over the Right to Rent scheme. As the High Court heard in 2018, the government ignored evidence that the scheme forces landlords to discriminate against minorities (for fear of going to jail or getting fined) and continues to spend tens of thousands of pounds on legal costs to defend a policy the Court described as “beyond repair”.

Read any Home Office response to the reports of the independent chief inspector or the Home Affairs Select Committee and you will find most findings ignored or dismissed altogether. And note the growing frequency with which government outriders seek to delegitimise civil society groups who oppose Home Office diktat. Imagine a business secretary who refused to talk to businesses. Or an education secretary who thought headteachers were the "enemy". We should all be alarmed that the Windrush Review finds at the heart of the Home Office a culture of “defensiveness, lack of awareness and an unwillingness to listen and learn from mistakes”, deflecting criticism instead of improving over time.

And, given these findings, it should come as little surprise that in 2017 when stories began to emerge of long-resident Britons being detained and deported, denied life-saving treatment and forced to prove their Britishness, the official government response was that these were isolated incidents, rather than the inevitable outcome of political and institutional rot, despite internal memos confirming that staff were aware of a serious problem within the Home Office.

As late as March 2018, I found myself face-to-face with ministers who insisted that Home Office policy was not to blame for elderly black Britons being denied cancer care and left to die. And in the days after we were forced to upstage the Commonwealth Summit in London in order to get the government’s attention, I left a meeting at No 10 aghast, having been asked by the prime minister’s staff to “issue a supportive statement” to “help fix public confidence in the Home Office” after a meeting with officials who still believed that death, detention and deportations were fundamentally a PR issue to be swept aside rather than a political or policy problem to be solved.


 
Home Office showed 'institutional ignorance and thoughtlessness' towards race Windrush report finds
Two home secretaries later, little has changed. Most of the victims of the Windrush injustices are yet to receive compensation for their losses. Many are still chasing paperwork and secure status. And the ministerial insistence on hostility to migrants and critics deepens, with Priti Patel, the home secretary, alleged to have forced senior staff to work until they collapsed in order to push ahead with a controversial charter flight deportation to Jamaica, sending men who had lived their whole lives here to a country they barely know. They can apologise all they like, but ministers know that nothing will change until they listen to critical voices both outside and inside the Home Office.

As odd as it may sound, there are some important parallels between the findings of the Windrush Review and the pandemic we are currently staring down. It’s important to listen to experts, including those who disagree with you. It’s important to remember the human beings your decisions affect. And it’s important to be accountable. If the only feedback loop in the system is crisis, the system needs to be rebuilt.

After months of waiting for this report, many will question the government’s decision to publish it at a time when the nation is understandably distracted. But the need for root-and-branch reform of the way the Home Office works, the way it engages with those who disagree, and the way we think about immigration policy in this country will not go away. And, whether or not they succeed in burying this damning report under the Covid-19 crisis, building a Home Office that’s fit-for-purpose is not something the government can wash its hands of.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/windrush-review-coronavirus-home-office-priti-patel-racism-a9413796.html

The comments are interesting.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 09, 2020, 02:29:03 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/06/jeremy-corbyn-labour-will-chase-down-tax-dodgers

Hahahaha  and he could start with his own party then- no wonder they didn't like him!


UNPACKING OUR BORDER OBSESSION

this person is not the only one with an opinion- sanctimonious comes to mind.
 Perhaps he/she would like to explain WHY the majority should pander to the many minorities. I mean these is a reason  right?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 04:38:43 PM
Hahahaha  and he could start with his own party then- no wonder they didn't like him!


UNPACKING OUR BORDER OBSESSION

this person is not the only one with an opinion- sanctimonious comes to mind.
 Perhaps he/she would like to explain WHY the majority should pander to the many minorities. I mean these is a reason  right?

I think it’s called humanity.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 09, 2020, 05:06:31 PM
I think it’s called humanity.

Nice terminology. However, when humanity is used to steal from one person to give to another then it's not so nice.

No body owes you or me a living,  AND we don't owe anyone else  anything.

Paying money to businesses  (civil service/governments/public bodies) is vastly wasted on projects which don't matter to those who pay in. They are unaccountable. Hardly humanity.

Helping people who are in need and are deserving of help by the better off IS  and should be a voluntary thing.

I don't see many screeching celebrities running to pick up the boat people arriving as we suffer a pandemic and are struggling to house them in their spare rooms-and go shopping for them. Humanity  banded about to make people feel guilty about things they need not feel guilty about.

Humanity-  dropping bombs on innocent men women and children- labour party= blood on their hands!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
Nice terminology. However, when humanity is used to steal from one person to give to another then it's not so nice.

No body owes you or me a living,  AND we don't owe anyone else  anything.

Paying money to businesses  (civil service/governments/public bodies) is vastly wasted on projects which don't matter to those who pay in. They are unaccountable. Hardly humanity.

Helping people who are in need and are deserving of help by the better off IS  and should be a voluntary thing.

I don't see many screeching celebrities running to pick up the boat people arriving as we suffer a pandemic and are struggling to house them in their spare rooms-and go shopping for them. Humanity  banded about to make people feel guilty about things they need not feel guilty about.

Humanity-  dropping bombs on innocent men women and children- labour party= blood on their hands!

Firstly can I assume that your not going to be volunteering to help anyone anytime soon ?

Secondly I hear nothing from you about the bombs dropped on Libya or the selling of arms to Saudi Arabia so they can wage war on Yemen. Do you condemn those acts too ?

Thirdly Corbyn campaigned against every war in recent history.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 09, 2020, 06:16:59 PM
Firstly can I assume that your not going to be volunteering to help anyone anytime soon ?

Secondly I hear nothing from you about the bombs dropped on Libya or the selling of arms to Saudi Arabia so they can wage war on Yemen. Do you condemn those acts too ?

Thirdly Corbyn campaigned against every war in recent history.


" Firstly can I assume that your not going to be volunteering to help anyone anytime soon ?"
 I will not be helping boat people NO.  giving to large corporate global charities NO. Involved with other  local project YES absolutely!


"Secondly I hear nothing from you about the bombs dropped on Libya or the selling of arms to Saudi Arabia so they can wage war on Yemen. Do you condemn those acts too ? "

Ask Tony about Saudi money...

I most certainly do condemn the UK government of each persuasion pandering to the Saudi war mongers- who are behind the Muslim uprising with their version/interpretation of the Koran.

"Thirdly Corbyn campaigned against every war in recent history. "

I know this and commend him for it, I wholeheartedly supported him on some issues and I don't think he is antisemitic either.


As I keep saying. I have no badge to flash, or other humans to fall on  my knees to...




Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 07:02:10 PM

" Firstly can I assume that your not going to be volunteering to help anyone anytime soon ?"
 I will not be helping boat people NO.  giving to large corporate global charities NO. Involved with other  local project YES absolutely!


"Secondly I hear nothing from you about the bombs dropped on Libya or the selling of arms to Saudi Arabia so they can wage war on Yemen. Do you condemn those acts too ? "

Ask Tony about Saudi money...

I most certainly do condemn the UK government of each persuasion pandering to the Saudi war mongers- who are behind the Muslim uprising with their version/interpretation of the Koran.

"Thirdly Corbyn campaigned against every war in recent history. "

I know this and commend him for it, I wholeheartedly supported him on some issues and I don't think he is antisemitic either.


As I keep saying. I have no badge to flash, or other humans to fall on  my knees to...

And what if ‘boat people’ are among the beneficiaries of local charity projects ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 09, 2020, 07:18:54 PM
And what if ‘boat people’ are among the beneficiaries of local charity projects ?

They are not. We have a mixed close community in our village. We help each other and our extended families.

 We also raise money for assistance to those we see in out local area. Recently - fully furnished and redecorated a home for a woman and three children placed outside our village who fled domestic abuse. She and her children lived in a B & B  for 10 months! Boat people - all males  put up in hotels-food provided and mobile phones to call home. All now claiming asylum all costing millions in housing/food and legal aid.
 
No  'charity' for illegal immigrant people sorry, I will let you chose your preference to assist. We chose the abused woman and her children who were born here (not white).  She is now settled - got back to work and children at,local school.. There was a bit of a fight for the school place due to the demand by people not born here.

That is the crux of the matter Faith. Only so many houses /school places there are bound to be losers so who should chose who loses?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 07:29:11 PM
They are not. We have a mixed close community in our village. We help each other and our extended families.

 We also raise money for assistance to those we see in out local area. Recently - fully furnished and redecorated a home for a woman and three children placed outside our village who fled domestic abuse. She and her children lived in a B & B  for 10 months! Boat people - all males  put up in hotels-food provided and mobile phones to call home. All now claiming asylum all costing millions in housing/food and legal aid.
 
No  'charity' for illegal immigrant people sorry, I will let you chose your preference to assist. We chose the abused woman and her children who were born here (not white).  She is now settled - got back to work and children at,local school.. There was a bit of a fight for the school place due to the demand by people not born here.

That is the crux of the matter Faith. Only so many houses /school places there are bound to be losers so who should chose who loses?

Where did you get the idea all boat people are males ?

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/migrants-land-lincolnshire-coast-border-2399307

So no charity for these little ones ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 09, 2020, 07:45:35 PM
Where did you get the idea all boat people are males ?

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/migrants-land-lincolnshire-coast-border-2399307

So no charity for these little ones ?

Faith I did not say all boat people are males- I know what you are trying to do- It won't work.

I gave an instance of a situation which happened.

 You do not even want to know about the little ones!It is too horrific to bring here and you would find an excuse to covet many of these people.

I will say again. If people want to come to this country to work and live ALL they have to do is seek out companies- apply for jobs- arrange their own housing and transport. Many people do this every year!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 09, 2020, 08:22:02 PM
It’s another socialist dilemma.  We are all the same, we are all equal, mi casa es tu casa, to the point where they believe we must be obliged to open arms to every single person on the planet who wishes to live here, or be considered racists and fascists.  Is there another country anywhere in the world where such a policy exists?  What happens to our country and its inhabitants if we welcome in a million newcomers a year for the next ten years?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 10:30:29 PM
Faith I did not say all boat people are males- I know what you are trying to do- It won't work.

I gave an instance of a situation which happened.

 You do not even want to know about the little ones!It is too horrific to bring here and you would find an excuse to covet many of these people.

I will say again. If people want to come to this country to work and live ALL they have to do is seek out companies- apply for jobs- arrange their own housing and transport. Many people do this every year!

So the women and children should be helped ? Surely that’s the humane thing to do ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 09, 2020, 10:33:12 PM
It’s another socialist dilemma.  We are all the same, we are all equal, mi casa es tu casa, to the point where they believe we must be obliged to open arms to every single person on the planet who wishes to live here, or be considered racists and fascists.  Is there another country anywhere in the world where such a policy exists?  What happens to our country and its inhabitants if we welcome in a million newcomers a year for the next ten years?

The same old rightwing arguments.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 10, 2020, 07:13:58 PM
So the women and children should be helped ? Surely that’s the humane thing to do ?


I really don't know what cotton, poppy, fluffy, version of reality you hail from.

Your child sees a child drowning in the sea- they jump in to rescue them- but the other child is pushing to get nearer to the shore- they are now both drowning

You have one lifebelt. two people are drowning one is your child the other is another persons child . What do you do? who do you save?  You can't jump in because you can't swim and no one else around...

it makes you think- hang on if only they asked if they could come ashore we would go and greet them.

There isn't enough to go around, and your socialist model of taxing the rich just doesn't cut it for the majority. Something you have to live with.


And you couldn't handle the truth about what is actually happening with many illegal immigrants- especially children!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2020, 07:22:06 PM

I really don't know what cotton, poppy, fluffy, version of reality you hail from.

Your child sees a child drowning in the sea- they jump in to rescue them- but the other child is pushing to get nearer to the shore- they are now both drowning

You have one lifebelt. two people are drowning one is your child the other is another persons child . What do you do? who do you save?  You can't jump in because you can't swim and no one else around...

it makes you think- hang on if only they asked if they could come ashore we would go and greet them.

There isn't enough to go around, and your socialist model of taxing the rich just doesn't cut it for the majority. Something you have to live with.


And you couldn't handle the truth about what is actually happening with many illegal immigrants- especially children!
Obviously as a good socialist you would save the other person’s child and blame the Tories for the death of your own child for only providing one lifebelt.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 10, 2020, 07:28:45 PM
Obviously as a good socialist you would save the other person’s child and blame the Tories for the death of your own child for only providing one lifebelt.

Oh God I loath to agree with you on this.

But this has been evidence all over Europe. Look at the situation in Greece- shocking!

 I have also given evidence of 'illegal immigrant- getting asylum housing and clothes food and many homeless people here being told their isn't enough housing for them!

Not a Tory fault -  a socialist fault.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 10, 2020, 07:31:39 PM

I really don't know what cotton, poppy, fluffy, version of reality you hail from.

Your child sees a child drowning in the sea- they jump in to rescue them- but the other child is pushing to get nearer to the shore- they are now both drowning

You have one lifebelt. two people are drowning one is your child the other is another persons child . What do you do? who do you save?  You can't jump in because you can't swim and no one else around...

it makes you think- hang on if only they asked if they could come ashore we would go and greet them.

There isn't enough to go around, and your socialist model of taxing the rich just doesn't cut it for the majority. Something you have to live with.


And you couldn't handle the truth about what is actually happening with many illegal immigrants- especially children!

There is absolutely enough to go around...a capitalist society just doesn’t distribute that plenty fairly.

As to the drowning scenario, a good socialist would have saved the other child because they’d have been sensible enough to teach their own child to swim.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 10, 2020, 07:35:24 PM
Oh God I loath to agree with you on this.

But this has been evidence all over Europe. Look at the situation in Greece- shocking!

 I have also given evidence of 'illegal immigrant- getting asylum housing and clothes food and many homeless people here being told their isn't enough housing for them!

Not a Tory fault -  a socialist fault.

Explain that while we have had a capitalist government for the last 10 years it’s a ‘socialist fault’ ( can’t wait for this ).

What is the evidence of illegal immigrants getting housing that you have been given.....and a copy of the Sun doesn’t count.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 10, 2020, 07:51:46 PM
Explain that while we have had a capitalist government for the last 10 years it’s a ‘socialist fault’ ( can’t wait for this ).

What is the evidence of illegal immigrants getting housing that you have been given.....and a copy of the Sun doesn’t count.

The councils control the housing- the mass immigration was a socialist UK/EU POLICY.

I own my own property- It doesn't affect me personally.

I have already supplied you with evidence. You must have been sleeping when it was highlighted that key workers in London could not get housing a few years  back , and yet at the same time  We see with our own eyes many parts of London are non white-non UK born areas.

I won't convince you  and you won't convince me, my claims are backed up- hence Brexit and a TORY Government with HUGE majority. Thanks to labour and EU cr@p over the years.

At one point the BNP were getting a lot of votes and that was a concern for many ,especially me!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 10, 2020, 08:29:05 PM
The councils control the housing- the mass immigration was a socialist UK/EU POLICY.

I own my own property- It doesn't affect me personally.

I have already supplied you with evidence. You must have been sleeping when it was highlighted that key workers in London could not get housing a few years  back , and yet at the same time  We see with our own eyes many parts of London are non white-non UK born areas.

I won't convince you  and you won't convince me, my claims are backed up- hence Brexit and a TORY Government with HUGE majority. Thanks to labour and EU cr@p over the years.

At one point the BNP were getting a lot of votes and that was a concern for many ,especially me!

A socialist U.K./EU policy ? How so ? Are to talking freedom of movement?

Not sure why we needed to know that you own your own house...TMI.

Key workers can’t get housing in many parts of the south because successive Labour and Conservative governments haven’t reinvested the money made from selling council homes back into council stock but hey immigrants are a convenient whipping boy.

The problem is that you don't know your history. Britain never was a friendly place for immigrants and the hostile environment we see now is certainly nothing new.  From Oswald Mosley in the 30s to ‘no blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs in rental accommodation more recently the truth is we have never been a particularly tolerant society.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 10, 2020, 09:58:41 PM
A socialist U.K./EU policy ? How so ? Are to talking freedom of movement?

Not sure why we needed to know that you own your own house...TMI.

Key workers can’t get housing in many parts of the south because successive Labour and Conservative governments haven’t reinvested the money made from selling council homes back into council stock but hey immigrants are a convenient whipping boy.

The problem is that you don't know your history. Britain never was a friendly place for immigrants and the hostile environment we see now is certainly nothing new.  From Oswald Mosley in the 30s to ‘no blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs in rental accommodation more recently the truth is we have never been a particularly tolerant society.

"A socialist U.K./EU policy ? How so ? Are to talking freedom of movement?"

Open borders and multiculturalism= not working. When we knew it wasn't working we didn't stop to take stock- we just exasperate the situation.  And even now you and your lot are still walking about pretending you care about the homeless and poor!  You have shown your limitations.

"Not sure why we needed to know that you own your own house...TMI."

You don't. but you are trying to make this personal! as if I am only thinking about my own situation.


"What is the evidence of illegal immigrants getting housing that you have been given".   Please note illegal immigrants are now being called asylum seekers even when it has not been proved they are!!!

https://www.parliament.scot/S5_Equal_Opps/General%20Documents/AylumSeekerHousingProject.pdf


Many Syrian refugees have been given housing in good areas jumping the housing queue- due to the complaints about giving them bad housing. I have no crux with that apart from why are they special why not have nice houses for key workers who can't afford to buy! Why come all this way to the UK if fleeing terror?


"Key workers can’t get housing in many parts of the south because successive Labour and Conservative governments haven’t reinvested the money made from selling council homes back into council stock but hey immigrants are a convenient whipping boy."

Well it is good to see you understand the situation- immigrants are NOT being whipped- illegal immigrants are causing a bad situation dire . We do not have the infrastructure to accommodate the sheer numbers coming from all over the world.  You don't like it. But if you think over taxing the rich to give these people housing and food etc  then what will you do when they take their money with them and hop off somewhere else? Then  you can open your door they can sleep on your sofa and share your food.


"The problem is that you don't know your history. Britain never was a friendly place for immigrants and the hostile environment we see now is certainly nothing new.  From Oswald Mosley in the 30s to ‘no blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs in rental accommodation more recently the truth is we have never been a particularly tolerant society.
"


I have a history problem? So this is  personal. OK.

From Oswald Mosley in the 30s
Stalinism was creeping in to the UK. ying and yang and all that Jazz. The people of the UK never voted for him so what is your point? 

 Private renters could choose who THEY want as boarders
no blacks= racism and ignorant
 no dogs= who wants dog hairs to clean?
no Irish= The Irish were at 'war' with the UK. They were also 'neutral' cough during the second world war.
people just didn't trust them for that reason. 

and Some people don't want same sex couples boarding- so what, it is their property. Why should you get to tell people how to live their lives- none of your business really.


"we have never been a particularly tolerant society. "


I am fed up with these outrageous claims by a minority of bleeding hearts.

Tolerance goes both ways. Your ignorance of  what some minority groups get up to is astonishing, and I may say embarrassing.

So what, people are not tolerant of other peoples cultures. should we be? I think you will find if you really did want to see for yourself many intolerant minorities in the country  and many, if not all. are RACIST against white indigenous population. What we claim to be a majority!












Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 10, 2020, 11:06:44 PM
"A socialist U.K./EU policy ? How so ? Are to talking freedom of movement?"

Open borders and multiculturalism= not working. When we knew it wasn't working we didn't stop to take stock- we just exasperate the situation.  And even now you and your lot are still walking about pretending you care about the homeless and poor!  You have shown your limitations.

"Not sure why we needed to know that you own your own house...TMI."

You don't. but you are trying to make this personal! as if I am only thinking about my own situation.


"What is the evidence of illegal immigrants getting housing that you have been given".   Please note illegal immigrants are now being called asylum seekers even when it has not been proved they are!!!

https://www.parliament.scot/S5_Equal_Opps/General%20Documents/AylumSeekerHousingProject.pdf


Many Syrian refugees have been given housing in good areas jumping the housing queue- due to the complaints about giving them bad housing. I have no crux with that apart from why are they special why not have nice houses for key workers who can't afford to buy! Why come all this way to the UK if fleeing terror?


"Key workers can’t get housing in many parts of the south because successive Labour and Conservative governments haven’t reinvested the money made from selling council homes back into council stock but hey immigrants are a convenient whipping boy."

Well it is good to see you understand the situation- immigrants are NOT being whipped- illegal immigrants are causing a bad situation dire . We do not have the infrastructure to accommodate the sheer numbers coming from all over the world.  You don't like it. But if you think over taxing the rich to give these people housing and food etc  then what will you do when they take their money with them and hop off somewhere else? Then  you can open your door they can sleep on your sofa and share your food.


"The problem is that you don't know your history. Britain never was a friendly place for immigrants and the hostile environment we see now is certainly nothing new.  From Oswald Mosley in the 30s to ‘no blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs in rental accommodation more recently the truth is we have never been a particularly tolerant society.
"


I have a history problem? So this is  personal. OK.

From Oswald Mosley in the 30s
Stalinism was creeping in to the UK. ying and yang and all that Jazz. The people of the UK never voted for him so what is your point? 

 Private renters could choose who THEY want as boarders
no blacks= racism and ignorant
 no dogs= who wants dog hairs to clean?
no Irish= The Irish were at 'war' with the UK. They were also 'neutral' cough during the second world war.
people just didn't trust them for that reason. 

and Some people don't want same sex couples boarding- so what, it is their property. Why should you get to tell people how to live their lives- none of your business really.


"we have never been a particularly tolerant society. "


I am fed up with these outrageous claims by a minority of bleeding hearts.

Tolerance goes both ways. Your ignorance of  what some minority groups get up to is astonishing, and I may say embarrassing.

So what, people are not tolerant of other peoples cultures. should we be? I think you will find if you really did want to see for yourself many intolerant minorities in the country  and many, if not all. are RACIST against white indigenous population. What we claim to be a majority!

Tell me MTI, what’s your job ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 10, 2020, 11:13:11 PM
If this country is so appalling, so intolerant and so racist it really makes one wonder why the immigrants to the west don’t just stop in one of the lovely cuddly welcoming socialist countries of Europe. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 10, 2020, 11:25:59 PM
If this country is so appalling, so intolerant and so racist it really makes one wonder why the immigrants to the west don’t just stop in one of the lovely cuddly welcoming socialist countries of Europe.

Perhaps they hope for better ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 12:16:09 PM
Perhaps they hope for better ?

Perhaps you and all the other like minded people should go and tell them the truth as you see it. Your socialist duty I would insist. bag lily Allen - take plenty hankies.

You asked about my job?  what has that got to do with anything?  Oh yes, I must be the great unwashed , council house white trash BNP supporter.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2020, 12:29:00 PM
Perhaps you and all the other like minded people should go and tell them the truth as you see it. Your socialist duty I would insist. bag lily Allen - take plenty hankies.

You asked about my job?  what has that got to do with anything?  Oh yes, I must be the great unwashed , council house white trash BNP supporter.
Unless you’re actually Mother Theresa you’ve got no hope in any argument with the Holier Than Thou.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 12:35:44 PM
Unless you’re actually Mother Theresa you’ve got no hope in any argument with the Holier Than Thou.

Ha  and even Mother Teresa had her faults!!  I just find it important to challenge those who feel they know what is good for me and my community without asking my opinion or permission.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 02:05:38 PM
Perhaps you and all the other like minded people should go and tell them the truth as you see it. Your socialist duty I would insist. bag lily Allen - take plenty hankies.

You asked about my job?  what has that got to do with anything?  Oh yes, I must be the great unwashed , council house white trash BNP supporter.

My, my you’re touchy. I asked about your job to appreciate if you opinions come from experience, that’s all ( it was you who mentioned without prompting that you own your own house, obviously a sore point with you )
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
Unless you’re actually Mother Theresa you’ve got no hope in any argument with the Holier Than Thou.

It must be eating you up VS, having to wait until MTI posts before you can have a dig while upholding the fiction that you’re not reading my posts......hilarious  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 02:15:17 PM
Ha  and even Mother Teresa had her faults!!  I just find it important to challenge those who feel they know what is good for me and my community without asking my opinion or permission.

You really do see yourself as a moral crusader, don’t you ? You are not challenging anything...merely voicing your prejudices.

BTW many, many of the healthcare staff who have died over the last weeks have been immigrants...many, I’d bet, who started their career journey by seeking asylum in this country. Your thoughts ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 03:38:58 PM
My, my you’re touchy. I asked about your job to appreciate if you opinions come from experience, that’s all ( it was you who mentioned without prompting that you own your own house, obviously a sore point with you )

"My, my you’re touchy."

Oh dear the name calling never ends. You just get it all off your chest.. I am selfish, touchy blah blah blah. Ok  what next?

 I asked about your job to appreciate if you opinions come from experience, that’s all ( it was you who mentioned without prompting that you own your own house, obviously a sore point with you )

Why did you not say why you needed to know where my opinions come from- I CAN SHARE. But on other threads having been called islamophobic  and a Nazi. So took that argument and stood it on its head.

I have personal experience in three charities I work with on a part time basis. My real job- I will keep you guessing on that! Just so you can rant away about me.  Water off a ducks back.


So now if you want you can explain, to anyone who cares, what your job is and what experience of socialism you can bring to the table.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
You really do see yourself as a moral crusader, don’t you ? You are not challenging anything...merely voicing your prejudices.

BTW many, many of the healthcare staff who have died over the last weeks have been immigrants...many, I’d bet, who started their career journey by seeking asylum in this country. Your thoughts ?

You really do see yourself as a moral crusader, don’t you ?  That particular badge is yours  Faith wear it with pride.

 You are not challenging anything...merely voicing your prejudices. Nothing wrong with having opinions merely ones or not. My prejudice. I am sure you will expand on that claim.

So why not put YOUR money where YOUR moral high ground mouth is and take in  say 5 illegal immigrants- house feed and cloth them instead of telling us to do it with our money!


"BTW many, many of the healthcare staff who have died over the last weeks have been immigrants...many, I’d bet, who started their career journey by seeking asylum in this country. Your thoughts ?"


You bet...  Ha!  so you don't know?

I work with some legal immigrants who work extremely hard and have been given  respect  from myself of those around them- what is your point?

I am deeply saddened for anyone who has died as a result of the COVID19- should I say except for white ones-would that make me pass the test?

 You are trying VERY HARD to call me out as a racist why not just do it get it off your chest.

One charity I work with  vulnerable illegally bought here women who have been raped tortured kid knapped as children- came over as slaves, sold to old men as wives,forced have abortions if their child is female. Have their genitalia removed! So don't even go there with me being intolerant of other peoples cultures. 

You and people like you should be ashamed to ignore these issues! AND they have been ignored for years put down to " it's their culture". and you are racist. Islamophobic/anti Semitic blah blah.

I know what I know and will challenge anyone with romantic ideas of poor immigrants coming here illegally.

Oh and for YOUR INFORMATION the NHS advertise abroad for medical staff- offer housing and settle in period etc so their credentials can now be checked, no charlitans and bombers  falling off boats.

Some larger charities look down on this as they see this as stealing much needed medical staff in poor countries fighting life threatening conditions.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2020, 05:21:17 PM
Oh it’s such fun to see someone else on the receiving end of Faithlilly’s tired old goads and insults for a change. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
"My, my you’re touchy."

Oh dear the name calling never ends. You just get it all off your chest.. I am selfish, touchy blah blah blah. Ok  what next?

 I asked about your job to appreciate if you opinions come from experience, that’s all ( it was you who mentioned without prompting that you own your own house, obviously a sore point with you )

Why did you not say why you needed to know where my opinions come from- I CAN SHARE. But on other threads having been called islamophobic  and a Nazi. So took that argument and stood it on its head.

I have personal experience in three charities I work with on a part time basis. My real job- I will keep you guessing on that! Just so you can rant away about me.  Water off a ducks back.


So now if you want you can explain, to anyone who cares, what your job is and what experience of socialism you can bring to the table.

Name calling ? Is pointing out that someone seems touchy about something? Well you live and learn.

No idea what you mean by your second paragraph....you really do talk in riddles.

Your third...tbh broadly your job is your business and of course you don’t have to divulge it but I was just exploring if it had coloured your opinions in anyway.  My job....I work for a large charity, one which plays a role in helping displaced individuals resettle.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 06:29:12 PM
Oh it’s such fun to see someone else on the receiving end of Faithlilly’s tired old goads and insults for a change.

Yes...you and MTI have more in common than I would ever have imagined.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 06:37:42 PM
Name calling ? Is pointing out that someone seems touchy about something? Well you live and learn.

No idea what you mean by your second paragraph....you really do talk in riddles.

Your third...tbh broadly your job is your business and of course you don’t have to divulge it but I was just exploring if it had coloured your opinions in anyway.  My job....I work for a large charity, one which plays a role in helping displaced individuals resettle.


You tried to be smart by calling me touchy. you overate your opinion of people. are illegal immigrants touchy when asked to leave? and if they are called such are you not horrified and offended for them?

I have raised issues about FGM and forced marriages/abortions and other horrific behavior which is attached to certain minorities on this forum before and was called Islamophobic- by the ignorant. AND  Nazi! by those who don't yet know they are ignorant.

So you are assuming I am part of an ignorant herd and are not an independent thinker. To be honest, I really don't need to justify myself to you for any of my opinions. I mean, I don't need your approval.


Well your agenda is very clear- big corporate business(charity)dependent on misplaced people- not at all self serving eh? No displaced people=no CEO hundred thousand bank notes in pocket. Oh these selfless people!

I and my twelve colleagues (mix races/religions) don't get paid for any charity work we do. It seems to smack dirty money grabbing like them big rich folks you dislike so much.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
You really do see yourself as a moral crusader, don’t you ?  That particular badge is yours  Faith wear it with pride.

 You are not challenging anything...merely voicing your prejudices. Nothing wrong with having opinions merely ones or not. My prejudice. I am sure you will expand on that claim.

So why not put YOUR money where YOUR moral high ground mouth is and take in  say 5 illegal immigrants- house feed and cloth them instead of telling us to do it with our money!


"BTW many, many of the healthcare staff who have died over the last weeks have been immigrants...many, I’d bet, who started their career journey by seeking asylum in this country. Your thoughts ?"


You bet...  Ha!  so you don't know?

I work with some legal immigrants who work extremely hard and have been given  respect  from myself of those around them- what is your point?

I am deeply saddened for anyone who has died as a result of the COVID19- should I say except for white ones-would that make me pass the test?

 You are trying VERY HARD to call me out as a racist why not just do it get it off your chest.

One charity I work with  vulnerable illegally bought here women who have been raped tortured kid knapped as children- came over as slaves, sold to old men as wives,forced have abortions if their child is female. Have their genitalia removed! So don't even go there with me being intolerant of other peoples cultures. 

You and people like you should be ashamed to ignore these issues! AND they have been ignored for years put down to " it's their culture". and you are racist. Islamophobic/anti Semitic blah blah.

I know what I know and will challenge anyone with romantic ideas of poor immigrants coming here illegally.

Oh and for YOUR INFORMATION the NHS advertise abroad for medical staff- offer housing and settle in period etc so their credentials can now be checked, no charlitans and bombers  falling off boats.

Some larger charities look down on this as they see this as stealing much needed medical staff in poor countries fighting life threatening conditions.

I really don’t need to call you out as a racist MTI...your posts save me the bother. Thank you.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 06:39:29 PM
Yes...you and MTI have more in common than I would ever have imagined.

Oh Dear! Oh dear !

two people disagree on some threads and agree on others. wow ! how horrible is that!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 06:43:10 PM
I really don’t need to call you out as a racist MTI...your posts save me the bother. Thank you.



 (&^& (&^& (&^& (&^&


disagree with a socialist and WHAM"!  is just get right out there.

"a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another."

So racist= hating other people from other races. ok let us be more specific which race of people do I hate.

Don't leave any out now!


Can't wait for this reply!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2020, 06:46:36 PM
Oh Dear! Oh dear !

two people disagree on some threads and agree on others. wow ! how horrible is that!
It’s Venn diagrams innit.  You and I have a rather tiny area of intersection and that is a shared dislike of holier-than-thou sanctimonious lefties trying to force their authoritarian (and often plain daft) views on the rest of us.  And that’s where our commonality pretty much ends. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Oh Dear! Oh dear !

two people disagree on some threads and agree on others. wow ! how horrible is that!

You think you and VS have similar opinions? Interesting.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 06:51:46 PM
It’s Venn diagrams innit.  You and I have a rather tiny area of intersection and that is a shared dislike of holier-than-thou sanctimonious lefties trying to force their authoritarian (and often plain daft) views on the rest of us.  And that’s where our commonality pretty much ends.

Phew...I thought it was me you didn’t like...#relieved  8(0(*
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 06:53:13 PM
You think you and VS have similar opinions? Interesting.

On  issues YES. We both Believe JB is guilty, and we both seem to share our view on Bullying lefties.

Just the two.
Think that covers it for now.

 But now it seems I have joined your 'intolerant' list. ouch"!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2020, 06:54:00 PM
If you’re not a socialist you’re quite an evil person, I think that’s the overriding message I get from those I observe and debate with.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 06:56:28 PM
Phew...I thought it was me you didn’t like...#relieved  8(0(*

Are you kidding- it is me as well. look at the global warming and Maddie threads!

VS is not on my person to invite to  tea list.  (god I hope vs isn't coloured or not British that would make me a racist.) ^*&&
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 07:07:18 PM
On  issues YES. We both Believe JB is guilty, and we both seem to share our view on Bullying lefties.

Just the two.
Think that covers it for now.

 But now it seems I have joined your 'intolerant' list. ouch"!

JB ? Jeremy Bamber ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2020, 07:16:51 PM
Are you kidding- it is me as well. look at the global warming and Maddie threads!

VS is not on my person to invite to  tea list.  (god I hope vs isn't coloured or not British that would make me a racist.) ^*&&
Why would you not want to invite me to tea?  I’m a perfectly nice person.  The colour of my skin or nationality is entirely irrelevant.  I have impeccable table manners too, and do not slurp or dunk.  I would also leave your toilet facilities spotless. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 07:18:46 PM
JB ? Jeremy Bamber ?

Yes. It is a good discussion thread.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 07:26:07 PM
Why would you not want to invite me to tea?  I’m a perfectly nice person.  The colour of my skin or nationality is entirely irrelevant.  I have impeccable table manners too, and do not slurp or dunk.  I would also leave your toilet facilities spotless.

 @)(++(*

 "The colour of my skin or nationality is entirely irrelevant."  Of course it is irrelevant- I was being facetious about being labelled a racist.

My papa brought me up with Jazz/blues. All black singers/musicians prefer it to white pop music I love Freddy Mercury,Really enjoy Michael Jacksons music. Married a 'bloody foreigner'my fav person from history is Martin Luther King, I  Rent out our cottage to women who have suffered abuse within their community (90%asian) free of charge.

 FFS I'm not being very good at this racist thingy
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 07:41:17 PM
Yes. It is a good discussion thread.

I’m reading Roger Wilkes book on the case just now and I agree, definitely guilty.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 11, 2020, 07:55:37 PM
I’m reading Roger Wilkes book on the case just now and I agree, definitely guilty.

Oh not seen that one Faith, is it a good read?

some people believe him guilty-but didn't get a fair trial some believe him to be innocent... It is a good debate though.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 08:41:03 PM
Oh not seen that one Faith, is it a good read?

some people believe him guilty-but didn't get a fair trial some believe him to be innocent... It is a good debate though.

It’s certainly thorough. The book on the case by Carol Ann Lee isn’t bad either. 

If you study the info on Bamber’s website there are anomalies in the evidence but on the whole I think the jury was correct.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 11, 2020, 08:49:27 PM
It seems the vile creep Jeremy Bamber has united us.  Group Hug!!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 09:10:28 PM
It seems the vile creep Jeremy Bamber has united us.  Group Hug!!

As Jo Cox, that wonderful Labour politician said ‘ We are far more united than the things that divide us’.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 11, 2020, 10:30:09 PM

Priti Patel is a rather ironic name for someone who looks like the back end of a bus.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 11, 2020, 11:13:06 PM
Priti Patel is a rather ironic name for someone who looks like the back end of a bus.

It’s that unfortunate smirk of hers that grates.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2020, 08:12:14 PM
It’s that unfortunate smirk of hers that grates.

The female version of Mandleson- best be careful you may be called out as a racist.

Oh no it's ok  you are on the left .
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 15, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
The female version of Mandleson- best be careful you may be called out as a racist.

Oh no it's ok  you are on the left .

No it’s okay because I didn’t mention her colour.

Remember....if you said Diane Abbot couldn’t count, that wouldn’t be racist. If you said Diane Abbot couldn’t count because she’s black that would be racist.

Learn the lesson.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 26, 2020, 10:57:41 PM
No it’s okay because I didn’t mention her colour.

Remember....if you said Diane Abbot couldn’t count, that wouldn’t be racist. If you said Diane Abbot couldn’t count because she’s black that would be racist.

Learn the lesson.

Fighting that educational bluff !

No,  that is NOT the way we [ censored word ] move. we just have to disagree and we are racist,because it is a subliminal thought that the left can see.  which actually isn't really there at all.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 26, 2020, 11:11:22 PM
Fighting that educational bluff !

No,  that is NOT the way we [ censored word ] move. we just have to disagree and we are racist,because it is a subliminal thought that the left can see.  which actually isn't really there at all.

When a racist talks it doesn’t take much guesswork to know they are a racist.

Good to have you back MTI...I was getting rather worried about you.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 26, 2020, 11:26:27 PM
When a racist talks it doesn’t take much guesswork to know they are a racist.

Good to have you back MTI...I was getting rather worried about you.

But you have to admit the race card gets played a lot by minorities in this country.

Yes, I do enjoy our debating.

I am a key worker, very busy!  and tired!   I should be in Russia next month for three week holiday!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 27, 2020, 12:15:26 AM
But you have to admit the race card gets played a lot by minorities in this country.

Yes, I do enjoy our debating.

I am a key worker, very busy!  and tired!   I should be in Russia next month for three week holiday!

Never been but it’s on my to do list. I’ve always been fascinated by Tsarist Russia.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
When a racist talks it doesn’t take much guesswork to know they are a racist.

Good to have you back MTI...I was getting rather worried about you.

Diane Abbott is on record saying West Indian Mothers will go that little further for their children...i dont think shes racist just stupid


Diane Abbott was criticised yesterday after playing the race card over her controversial decision to send her son to a top private school.

The Labour leadership contender defended sending her son James to a £10,000-a-year school claiming: 'West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.'

Miss Abbott also risked fury among her white colleagues in the Labour Party by saying they would 'never understand' the Afro-Caribbean culture of parents wanting to do the best for their children.


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 27, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Diane Abbott is on record saying West Indian Mothers will go that little further for their children...i dont think shes racist just stupid


Diane Abbott was criticised yesterday after playing the race card over her controversial decision to send her son to a top private school.

The Labour leadership contender defended sending her son James to a £10,000-a-year school claiming: 'West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.'

Miss Abbott also risked fury among her white colleagues in the Labour Party by saying they would 'never understand' the Afro-Caribbean culture of parents wanting to do the best for their children.


If a white woman said English mothers would go to the wall for their children would you consider it racist ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 04:06:35 PM
If a white woman said English mothers would go to the wall for their children would you consider it racist ?

of course....If i said it to a black person
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 27, 2020, 04:40:01 PM
Diane Abbott is on record saying West Indian Mothers will go that little further for their children...i dont think shes racist just stupid


Diane Abbott was criticised yesterday after playing the race card over her controversial decision to send her son to a top private school.

The Labour leadership contender defended sending her son James to a £10,000-a-year school claiming: 'West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.'

Miss Abbott also risked fury among her white colleagues in the Labour Party by saying they would 'never understand' the Afro-Caribbean culture of parents wanting to do the best for their children.

She is a breath-taking hypocrite of the highest order.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 27, 2020, 04:48:45 PM
of course....If i said it to a black person

How do you know that the quote wasn’t said to a black reporter ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 05:42:15 PM
How do you know that the quote wasn’t said to a black reporter ?
what if someone replied to her that affro carribean mothers have to go that little bit extra because the lack of the affro carribean father being around.....I think that shows her commnet as racist


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 27, 2020, 05:55:22 PM
what if someone replied to her that affro carribean mothers have to go that little bit extra because the lack of the affro carribean father being around.....I think that shows her commnet as racist

Your comment makes now sense.....you are Donald Trump and I claim my £50.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 06:03:50 PM
Your comment makes now sense.....you are Donald Trump and I claim you £50.

as you no doubt realise...your comment makes no sense
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 27, 2020, 06:22:27 PM
as you no doubt realise...your comment makes no sense

It does now.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 06:31:15 PM
It does now.

have another go
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 27, 2020, 06:57:21 PM
Dianne Abbott once said  “Blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" are unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before"
Can you imagine the fury if Boris had said “Black haired, brown-eyed Nigerian girls are unsuitable nurses because they have never met a white person before” ?!


Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 27, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
Dianne Abbott also said
 "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game"
And if Dominic Raab had made some negstive sweeping statement about black people would he still be in a job?  I think not.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 27, 2020, 07:03:13 PM
But of course, if you’re a Leftie it’s perfectly acceptable to be hateful and racist about white folk, cos they deserve it.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 08:44:06 PM
diane put her son first...made sure her son had a good education and a good start in life...im sure she instilled some good socialist values into him....anyone know what hes up to now
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 27, 2020, 08:47:03 PM
diane put her son first...made sure her son had a good education and a good start in life...anyone know what hes up to now
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/23/diane-abbotts-son-admits-spitting-police-officer-biting-colleague/
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 08:49:12 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/23/diane-abbotts-son-admits-spitting-police-officer-biting-colleague/

Probably just the anti labour right wing press making things up...enough to drive her to drink....
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on April 27, 2020, 10:31:39 PM
Probably just the anti labour right wing press making things up...enough to drive her to drink....

I’m not particularly fond of Dianne Abbott but neither am I very fond of grown men bullying a female MP no matter what her colour.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on April 27, 2020, 10:35:54 PM
I’m not particularly fond of Dianne Abbott but neither am I very fond of grown men bullying a female MP no matter what her colour.
I'm not happy with anyone bullying anyone... I don't think sex colour or age comes into it.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 30, 2020, 08:50:50 PM
I’m not particularly fond of Dianne Abbott but neither am I very fond of grown men bullying a female MP no matter what her colour.

What grown men are bullying who?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2020, 01:03:02 AM
What grown men are bullying who?

Have you seen the abuse that Dianne Abbott receives on Twitter. It far outstrips any other female politician. Now why do you think that is ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 11:45:30 AM
Have you seen the abuse that Dianne Abbott receives on Twitter. It far outstrips any other female politician. Now why do you think that is ?

I think it's because she says so many stupid things... And drinks from a can on the tube.

I certainly don't believe it's because she is black
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2020, 12:45:20 PM
I think it's because she says so many stupid things... And drinks from a can on the tube.

I certainly don't believe it's because she is black

Of course it’s not !

Are you condoning her treatment?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 01:38:15 PM
Of course it’s not !

Are you condoning her treatment?

Shes a politician...was shadow home secretary.......and obvioulsy not fit for the job. The criticism she gets goes with her position...so yes... I think its to be expected
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2020, 04:44:04 PM
Shes a politician...was shadow home secretary.......and obvioulsy not fit for the job. The criticism she gets goes with her position...so yes... I think its to be expected

So you think that it’s acceptable for a woman to be threatened with rape, her looks to be criticised and be racially abused just because ‘she’s a politician’ ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 01, 2020, 04:53:21 PM
So it’s not ok to criticise the looks of Dianne Abbott but it IS OK to criticise the looks of Kate McCann and be generally abusive about her, her house and her family, and that’s because...?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 05:14:07 PM
So you think that it’s acceptable for a woman to be threatened with rape, her looks to be criticised and be racially abused just because ‘she’s a politician’ ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election

Absolutely not and that isn't what I've said.... But of course as VS points out it seems its OK to be abusive towards the McCanns. Those who make those sort of threats against DA are as stupid and pathetic as those who abuse the McCanns
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 01, 2020, 05:21:23 PM
Absolutely not and that isn't what I've said.... But of course as VS points out it seems its OK to be abusive towards the McCanns. Those who make those sort of threats against DA are as stupid and pathetic as those who abuse the McCanns
Faithlilly will no doubt claim she has never made any bitchy personal comments about Kate McCann, but before she does it would be a good idea if she consulted her conscience before making such a claim...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2020, 05:26:08 PM
Absolutely not and that isn't what I've said.... But of course as VS points out it seems its OK to be abusive towards the McCanns. Those who make those sort of threats against DA are as stupid and pathetic as those who abuse the McCanns

So how much abuse is too much ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
I've actually got a lot of sympathy for DA as a person.... But not as a politician...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2020, 05:34:31 PM
I've actually got a lot of sympathy for DA as a person.... But not as a politician...

Yet you still believe that she deserves the racist, misogynistic abuse she gets ‘because she’s a politician’ ?


Shes a politician...was shadow home secretary.......and obvioulsy not fit for the job. The criticism she gets goes with her position...so yes... I think its to be expected’
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
Yet you still believe that she deserves the racist, misogynistic abuse she gets ‘because she’s a politician’ ?


Shes a politician...was shadow home secretary.......and obvioulsy not fit for the job. The criticism she gets goes with her position...so yes... I think its to be expected’

Im surprised you have made such a pigs ear of reading my post.....I sad the criticism she gets....never mentioned racism or misogony which im sure you should be aware of....I dont agree with
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2020, 06:59:29 PM
Im surprised you have made such a pigs ear of reading my post.....I sad the criticism she gets....never mentioned racism or misogony which im sure you should be aware of....I dont agree with

Most of the criticism she gets is racially motivated...evidenced by examples of that criticism’ ( read abuse). You, wrongly, denied the abuse was racially motivated. You are wrong.

When you’re in a hole...stop digging Davel.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 07:17:20 PM
Most of the criticism she gets is racially motivated...evidenced by examples of that criticism’ ( read abuse). You, wrongly, denied the abuse was racially motivated. You are wrong.

When you’re in a hole...stop digging Davel.

Im not wrong at all...she may get some racist abuse and I certainly wouldnt condone that but the main reason she is criticised is because she makes such a fool of herself. Only today we read she is being criticised by Starmer himself for taking part in a debate with acouple of anti semitic Labour party members
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 01, 2020, 08:08:41 PM
Im surprised you have made such a pigs ear of reading my post.....I sad the criticism she gets....never mentioned racism or misogony which im sure you should be aware of....I dont agree with
I’m not surprised at all, this is the modus operandi of a dishonest debater, deliberately misunderstanding what you’ve written.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 01, 2020, 08:24:58 PM
I’m not surprised at all, this is the modus operandi of a dishonest debater, deliberately misunderstanding what you’ve written.

I'm sure...and I'm not joking ...Diane is  a very nice well meaning person with a good heart. The fault lies with the idiot who made her shadow foreign secretary....her ex boyfriend as I understand
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 01, 2020, 09:50:34 PM
I'm sure...and I'm not joking ...Diane is  a very nice well meaning person with a good heart. The fault lies with the idiot who made her shadow foreign secretary....her ex boyfriend as I understand
I have no idea if she’s a nice person or not, I just think she’s one of those socialists that doesn’t practice what they preach, like most of them in fact.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 12:09:30 AM
Im not wrong at all...she may get some racist abuse and I certainly wouldnt condone that but the main reason she is criticised is because she makes such a fool of herself. Only today we read she is being criticised by Starmer himself for taking part in a debate with acouple of anti semitic Labour party members

Then if that’s true let’s hear your criticism of Johnson whose actions singlehandedly lead to the further detention  of a British National in Iran ?

And who commented about police probes into historical child abuse allegations where he said money spent on the investigations had been “spaffed up the wall” and would have been better used putting officers on the street ?

Or commented on Libya “They have got a brilliant vision to turn Sirte into the next Dubai. The only thing they have got to do is clear the dead bodies away.”


Or who berated at a Sikh temple in Bristol for talking about increasing whisky exports to India – despite alcohol being forbidden in the Sikh faith.


And of course there’s the classic ‘smoked kipper’ episode where he ranted about EU regulations making fish more expensive as it had to be transported on ice. Of course that turned out to be a UK regulation.


And if Abbott wanted to talk to an antisemite she need look no further than the PM himself.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/boris-johnsons-record-of-bigotry-antisemitism-and-far-right-politics-must-not-be-forgotten


As to the university educated MP being stupid, you really shouldn’t believe the hype.I found this interesting especially the quote from the Telegraph :

Abbott was later appointed Shadow Minister for Public Health by Ed Miliband, taking shadow responsibility for a range of issues including children's health, maternity services, sexual health, tobacco, nursing, obesity and alcohol abuse.[27] Following her move onto the front-bench, the Telegraph said on 27 September 2011 that Abbott had "become one of Labour’s best front bench performers".[28]

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 12:14:43 AM
I'm sure...and I'm not joking ...Diane is  a very nice well meaning person with a good heart. The fault lies with the idiot who made her shadow foreign secretary....her ex boyfriend as I understand

And Ed Miliband who made her Shadow Minister for Public Health ? Or the Telegraph who described her as ‘ one of Labour’s best front bench performers“ ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2020, 09:49:13 AM
And Ed Miliband who made her Shadow Minister for Public Health ? Or the Telegraph who described her as ‘ one of Labour’s best front bench performers“ ?

I think you will find that was 9 years ago and doesnt say a lot for the rest of the front bench. Are you really suggesting that much of the criticism she has received has not been due to some of the confused things she has said and her own actions...such as drinking alcohol from a can on the tube.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2020, 11:18:42 AM
I think you will find that was 9 years ago and doesnt say a lot for the rest of the front bench. Are you really suggesting that much of the criticism she has received has not been due to some of the confused things she has said and her own actions...such as drinking alcohol from a can on the tube.
I wonder if word for word she has received more or less hateful online abuse in the last 13 years than, say, Kate McCann?  It would be an interesting study. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
I think you will find that was 9 years ago and doesnt say a lot for the rest of the front bench. Are you really suggesting that much of the criticism she has received has not been due to some of the confused things she has said and her own actions...such as drinking alcohol from a can on the tube.

What deserves more criticism ? Drinking alcohol on the tube but harming no one or leaving your three under fives alone to drink alcohol into the small hours ?  I know which one I’d choose.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2020, 11:47:58 AM
What deserves more criticism ? Drinking alcohol on the tube but harming no one or leaving your three under fives alone to drink alcohol into the small hours ?  I know which one I’d choose.

thats confirmation youve lost the argument
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 12:40:55 PM
thats confirmation youve lost the argument

No it confirms that you are displaying a double standard.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2020, 12:50:01 PM
No it confirms that you are displaying a double standard.

For the record i think the McCanns were wrong to leave the children and its understandable for people to be critical but not abusive towards them...thats life
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 01:20:54 PM
For the record i think the McCanns were wrong to leave the children and its understandable for people to be critical but not abusive towards them...thats life

Agreed and any politician who is not up to the job deserves to be criticised for that deficiency, as I did Johnson above,  but no politician deserves the kind of racist, misogynistic abuse Diane Abbott receives.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2020, 01:27:43 PM
Agreed and any politician who is not up to the job deserves to be criticised for that deficiency, as I did Johnson above,  but no politician deserves the kind of racist, misogynistic abuse Diane Abbott receives.

I agree.. I had a bit of that on Stephens forum which several posters here seemed to enjoy... Thanks for highlighting what a despicable act that was
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: John on May 02, 2020, 01:30:35 PM
Agreed and any politician who is not up to the job deserves to be criticised for that deficiency, as I did Johnson above,  but no politician deserves the kind of racist, misogynistic abuse Diane Abbott receives.

No I agree, she's just a racist with an inferiority complex and a big chip on her shoulder.  She espouses what's worst about London these days.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 02, 2020, 01:38:29 PM
Is it OK to abuse Trump on the basis of the way he looks and the way he speaks?  Just curious...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 01:40:57 PM
I agree.. I had a bit of that on Stephens forum which several posters here seemed to enjoy... Thanks for highlighting what a despicable act that was

You will get no argument from me.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 02, 2020, 01:43:45 PM
No I agree, she's just a racist with an inferiority complex and a big chip on her shoulder.  She espouses what's worst about London these days.

If she thinks she is better than white people ie racist, surely she has a superiority complex ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Davel on May 02, 2020, 01:48:20 PM
You will get no argument from me.

I don't need any argument... It's ipse facto loquor... Or something like that
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on May 17, 2020, 02:29:15 PM

Is any Party inherently Racist?  There is a difference between Inherently and Institutionally Racist.  It could depend on whose side you are on.

I didn't see the difference when I was 15 years old.  We were all just people to me.  It was the likes of Diane Abbott who ultimately brought this to the fore.

I then spent some years in Singapore where most of my neighbours were coloured and just as well able as I was.  I don't understand what went wrong.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 17, 2020, 02:53:04 PM
Is any Party inherently Racist?  There is a difference between Inherently and Institutionally Racist.  It could depend on whose side you are on.

I didn't see the difference when I was 15 years old.  We were all just people to me.  It was the likes of Diane Abbott who ultimately brought this to the fore.

I then spent some years in Singapore where most of my neighbours were coloured and just as well able as I was.  I don't understand what went wrong.

Diane Abbott brought this to the fore ? So in the thousands of years before Diane Abbott are you saying that there was no racism ? What about the civil rights movement in America or apartheid in South Africa ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on May 17, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
Diane Abbott brought this to the fore ? So in the thousands of years before Diane Abbott are you saying that there was no racism ? What about the civil rights movement in America or apartheid in South Africa ?

No.  I am saying that there was No Racism for Me.  I don't know what else was going on.

Were The Beors wrong?  Did they have any rights to Africa?  After all at the time they worked the land and made it fertile.  Was this worth nothing?

I simply don't know.  And don't really care.  But what a horrible mess Africa now is.  Despot all over the place and who will be the next one.

You might have a better idea.  But I somewhat doubt it.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 17, 2020, 05:13:30 PM
No.  I am saying that there was No Racism for Me.  I don't know what else was going on.

Were The Beors wrong?  Did they have any rights to Africa?  After all at the time they worked the land and made it fertile.  Was this worth nothing?

I simply don't know.  And don't really care.  But what a horrible mess Africa now is.  Despot all over the place and who will be the next one.

You might have a better idea.  But I somewhat doubt it.

Then your ignorance of the world around you is truly stunning. Apartheid in Africa passed you by yet Diane Abbott talking about racism piqued your interest. Astounding.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on May 17, 2020, 06:38:50 PM
Then your ignorance of the world around you is truly stunning. Apartheid in Africa passed you by yet Diane Abbott talking about racism piqued your interest. Astounding.

I think that you have missed the point.  I am never downright rude while you are, so never any chance of a sensible discussion.

Africa isn't wonderful, although Botswana  is probably the closest.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 17, 2020, 07:38:15 PM
I think that you have missed the point.  I am never downright rude while you are, so never any chance of a sensible discussion.

Africa isn't wonderful, although Botswana  is probably the closest.

I’m honest...some people don’t like that.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on May 17, 2020, 08:36:22 PM
I’m honest...some people don’t like that.

I try not to be.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 20, 2020, 08:42:55 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/19/nhs-surcharge-tories-key-workers-government-healthcare?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR3hCkFvbgl5PkKjO6kn5a7ArID5a8jPYJoGURB43HDJ4GqaxwVqaV2vw0w
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on May 21, 2020, 10:00:32 AM
Can someone explain this to me ? If a migrant comes to this country and works and pays taxes, why are they being charged a surcharge to use the NHS, which they pay for, like us, with their taxes ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 22, 2020, 04:24:31 PM

Because they haven't been paying into the pot all their working lives like the rest of us?

Why should Johnny Foreigner get the same level of healthcare as me if he hasn't paid in for as long as I have?

The migrant surcharge was earning 900 million a year which helped fund the NHS.

How is this money going to be found now?  Answers on the side of a bus.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 22, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Because they haven't been paying into the pot all their working lives like the rest of us?

Why should Johnny Foreigner get the same level of healthcare as me if he hasn't paid in for as long as I have?

The migrant surcharge was earning 900 million a year which helped fund the NHS.

How is this money going to be found now?  Answers on the side of a bus.
Exactly, that’s less tham 3 weeks of “Brexit Bonus” so that’s obviously where it will come from.  No need to worry Spam, Brexit will sort it alllll out.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 22, 2020, 04:34:02 PM
Exactly, that’s less tham 3 weeks of “Brexit Bonus” so that’s obviously where it will come from.  No need to worry Spam, Brexit will sort it alllll out.

If Brexit got rid of all the foreigners it would be worth losing 900 million a year imo.
But it isn't going to do that. We will be getting Brexit light, not the evil, fascist, nazi kind of Brexit that I voted for.

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 22, 2020, 04:52:57 PM
If Brexit got rid of all the foreigners it would be worth losing 900 million a year imo.
But it isn't going to do that. We will be getting Brexit light, not the evil, fascist, nazi kind of Brexit that I voted for.
What were you promised that you’re sad not to be getting and who promised it to you?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 23, 2020, 12:04:13 PM
What were you promised that you’re sad not to be getting and who promised it to you?

I wasn't promised anything personally, but I was told that voting for Brexit made me a racist, which I am.

I was under the impression we'd be booting out all the illegal economic migrants (who masquerade as refugees) & sending them back home where they belong, & that we'd be pulling up the draw bridge on them for good.
This isn't happening, instead we're now letting Johnny foreigner use our health service for free, which he doesn't deserve.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 23, 2020, 12:18:52 PM
I wasn't promised anything personally, but I was told that voting for Brexit made me a racist, which I am.

I was under the impression we'd be booting out all the illegal economic migrants (who masquerade as refugees) & sending them back home where they belong, & that we'd be pulling up the draw bridge on them for good.
This isn't happening, instead we're now letting Johnny foreigner use our health service for free, which he doesn't deserve.
I'm afraid you've just demonstrated how thick the average Brexit voter was then.  Oh well, you have your uses at least, and for that we should be thankful. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 02, 2020, 11:02:00 PM
Boris is offering 3 million HK citizens the right to live in the UK if Beijing removes more of their freedoms, a surprising move from such a massive racist, and one that is bound to go down like a lead balloon with Brexiteers.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 01:45:47 PM
Boris is offering 3 million HK citizens the right to live in the UK if Beijing removes more of their freedoms, a surprising move from such a massive racist, and one that is bound to go down like a lead balloon with Brexiteers.

This is not a good one.  Hong Kong Citizens always did have the right to do this when The Lease ran out.

Hong Kong belongs to China.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 03:11:49 PM
This is not a good one.  Hong Kong Citizens always did have the right to do this when The Lease ran out.

Hong Kong belongs to China.
The problem is the people of Hong Kong don't want to belong to China, and who can blame them really?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Angelo222 on June 03, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Boris is offering 3 million HK citizens the right to live in the UK if Beijing removes more of their freedoms, a surprising move from such a massive racist, and one that is bound to go down like a lead balloon with Brexiteers.

Very much so. These people are Chinese whether they like it or not so they can stay in Hong Kong.  We've enough bloody foreigners in this country.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Angelo222 on June 03, 2020, 03:26:20 PM
The problem is the people of Hong Kong don't want to belong to China, and who can blame them really?

Most of these students weren't even around in 1997 when Hong Kong was 'handed back' to the Chinese do they have had a lifetime to get used to it.

IMO the UK should not have given Hong Kong back because China itself is good at breaking sovereign territory agreements. We can rightly blame Barron Patten for that one
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 03:26:46 PM
Very much so. These people are Chinese whether they like it or not so they can stay in Hong Kong.  We've enough bloody foreigners in this country.
What a let down Boris and Brexit is proving to be to people like you. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 06:06:22 PM
The problem is the people of Hong Kong don't want to belong to China, and who can blame them really?

But they do.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 06:10:46 PM
Most of these students weren't even around in 1997 when Hong Kong was 'handed back' to the Chinese do they have had a lifetime to get used to it.

IMO the UK should not have given Hong Kong back because China itself is good at breaking sovereign territory agreements. We can rightly blame Barron Patten for that one

Britain had no choice.  The Lease ran out.  Hong Kong belongs to China.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 06:52:30 PM
But they do.
If that’s true then we needn’t worry about 3 million of the, applying for citizenship in Britian, need we?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
If that’s true then we needn’t worry about 3 million of the, applying for citizenship in Britian, need we?

I don't know.  You of all people should know.  You saw the best and the worst.

As it is my youngest son should have been.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
I don't know.  You of all people should know.  You saw the best and the worst.

As it is my youngest son should have been.
Sorry, I don’t really understand that comment.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 08:29:55 PM
Sorry, I don’t really understand that comment.

No, sorry, of course not.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 08:50:46 PM
“According to figures obtained by the Mingpao newspaper from the British Passport Office, as the unrest began in the second half of last year, BNO (British National Overseas)  renewal applications increased, with the number totalling more than 120,000 in 2019 compared with about 14,000 in 2017 and 2018”.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 03, 2020, 09:06:29 PM


I don't mind a few million Hong Kong Chinkys coming over here.

It's the bloody Muslims that need to stay away, safe in their own countries where they belong, keeping their suicide bombings, paedophilia & acid attacks out of the UK.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 10:02:25 PM

I don't mind a few million Hong Kong Chinkys coming over here.

It's the bloody Muslims that need to stay away, safe in their own countries where they belong, keeping their suicide bombings, paedophilia & acid attacks out of the UK.
Give me an Indian over a Chinese any day.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 03, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Give me an Indian over a Chinese any day.

I wouldn't want the main land Chinkys here, they can stay in their communist utopia, eating dogs & bats, watching their state censored media & being sent to gulags.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 10:36:47 PM
I wouldn't want the main land Chinkys here, they can stay in their communist utopia, eating dogs & bats, watching their state censored media & being sent to gulags.

No, Gulags is Russian.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 07, 2020, 07:40:38 PM
Very much so. These people are Chinese whether they like it or not so they can stay in Hong Kong.  We've enough bloody foreigners in this country.
#The Chinese are very high breeders- 3 million now-then within their own very special community this will grow some...
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 07, 2020, 11:23:49 PM
#The Chinese are very high breeders- 3 million now-then within their own very special community this will grow some...
The Hong Kong birthrate is very low, at 1.1

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=HK.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 09:05:49 AM
Wrong thread.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 07:56:53 PM
And they mock Diane Abbott.

https://youtu.be/xk4EMBXxG5A
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 08:19:05 PM
And they mock Diane Abbott.

https://youtu.be/xk4EMBXxG5A

The Diane abbot who  is living on the streets- no job and  starving to death because of the racist abuse she faces every day- That ONE?


Ho ho Ho belly laugh at that one.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 09:20:18 PM
The Diane abbot who  is living on the streets- no job and  starving to death because of the racist abuse she faces every day- That ONE?


Ho ho Ho belly laugh at that one.

Sorry...I don’t quite see your point ?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 09:39:12 PM
Sorry...I don’t quite see your point ?

No. You wouldn't. That is OK.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on September 07, 2020, 05:48:32 PM
Because people from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean are not on a supposedly God given mission to convert us to their religions, laws, culture and customs.  Because people from Eastern Europe or the Caribbean don’t use their religion as an excuse to attack random strangers on London pavements with machetes.   Of course the majority of Muslims don’t do these things either, but unfortunately for them some of their more extreme brethren do, and this makes people wary and suspicious of the whole group.  Now, I consider myself a reasonable, rational person who is not a terrible racist but when I was stood on a London tube train and a young Muslim man in religious garb and a rucksack boarded the train and then fished out the Koran to read whilst standing right next to me, guess what thoughts were running through my head?  I didn’t move to the next carriage and I didn’t abuse him or give him filthy looks but I was apprehensive.  Is this completely irrational of me?
It seems not.  Look at what is coming out today re: the Manchester Arena bombing.  Presumably some people om this forum would brand those who tried to warn thr authorities before the bomb went off as racists, for the same reason they branded me a racist for posting the above, yet imagine if those “racists” hadn’t been dismissed for their politically incorrect views, how many young people would probably still be alive today:

From the Times

“The inquiry heard that in two possible “missed opportunities”, witnesses had passed on concerns about a man matching the description of Salman Abedi that were not acted upon.

Mr Greaney said that experts had been asked to look into security at the arena that night.

He said they “consider on the basis of the information currently available to them, that, on May 22, there were missed opportunities to identify Salman Abedi as a threat and take mitigating action”.


If the “presence of a potential suicide bomber had been reported,” the experts found, “it is very likely that mitigating actions would’ve been taken that could have reduced the impact of the attack.”

This, Mr Greaney said, was because “there was sufficient time between Abedi first being spotted by, and also reported to staff and his attack to effectively react”.

The witnesses included two officials from a private firm working on an “anti-bootlegging operation”.

Julie Merchant and William Drysdale were employed by Reflex Security, and working for SMG, the arena operators. They saw Abedi with a large backpack sitting down on the mezzanine floor above the City Room foyer at about 9.41pm, less than an hour before the attack.

Mr Drysdale believed he was “praying”, Mr Greaney said.

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CCTV footage then shows Ms Merchant approaching a British Transport Police (BTP) constable, Jessica Bullough, 32 minutes before the bomb was detonated.

They are seen having a conversation in which she “appeared to be pointing in the direction of where Salman Abedi was sitting”.

Ms Merchant has a recollection of the conversation, but “not a perfect one”, Mr Greaney told the inquiry.

She believed it was “something to do with praying and political correctness” and had also remembered being told by her colleague about a man praying.

Meanwhile PC Bullough cannot remember the conversation taking place, the inquiry was told.

She was the first police officer to enter the City Rooms after the attack and was commended for her bravery.

The inquiry also heard that a member of the public was “fobbed off” when he reported a man matching the appearance of Abedi to security.

Described as witness A, the onlooker claimed the individual looked “out of place” with his large rucksack.

Mr Greaney explained how witness A went over to the man and asked: “What have you got in your rucksack? It doesn’t look very good, you know what you see with bombs and such, you with a rucksack in a place like this. What are you doing?”

The man told him: “I’m waiting for somebody mate” and asked “Have you got the time?”

Witness A said he did not know and then walked away.

He approached the member of the security team, Mohammed Agha, who “did not seem interested in what he had to say and he felt, in his words, fobbed off,” Mr Greaney said. “It does seem likely that the man witness A saw was Salman Abedi but that will have to be explored in evidence.”

Witness A had been at the concert with his wife, witness B, who had earlier suggested they move away from the man due to him looking suspicious. They had been at the concert to collect their daughter and her friend.

In response to the concerns raised by witness A, Mr Agha spoke to a colleague, Kyle Lawler, eight minutes before the bomb went off. Mr Lawler told police that a member of the public who he believed was ex-military alerted him and Mr Agha and they realised the man with the backpack “didn’t belong there”.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on September 07, 2020, 09:53:34 PM
It seems not.  Look at what is coming out today re: the Manchester Arena bombing.  Presumably some people om this forum would brand those who tried to warn thr authorities before the bomb went off as racists, for the same reason they branded me a racist for posting the above, yet imagine if those “racists” hadn’t been dismissed for their politically incorrect views, how many young people would probably still be alive today:

From the Times

“The inquiry heard that in two possible “missed opportunities”, witnesses had passed on concerns about a man matching the description of Salman Abedi that were not acted upon.

Mr Greaney said that experts had been asked to look into security at the arena that night.

He said they “consider on the basis of the information currently available to them, that, on May 22, there were missed opportunities to identify Salman Abedi as a threat and take mitigating action”.


If the “presence of a potential suicide bomber had been reported,” the experts found, “it is very likely that mitigating actions would’ve been taken that could have reduced the impact of the attack.”

This, Mr Greaney said, was because “there was sufficient time between Abedi first being spotted by, and also reported to staff and his attack to effectively react”.

The witnesses included two officials from a private firm working on an “anti-bootlegging operation”.

Julie Merchant and William Drysdale were employed by Reflex Security, and working for SMG, the arena operators. They saw Abedi with a large backpack sitting down on the mezzanine floor above the City Room foyer at about 9.41pm, less than an hour before the attack.

Mr Drysdale believed he was “praying”, Mr Greaney said.

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CCTV footage then shows Ms Merchant approaching a British Transport Police (BTP) constable, Jessica Bullough, 32 minutes before the bomb was detonated.

They are seen having a conversation in which she “appeared to be pointing in the direction of where Salman Abedi was sitting”.

Ms Merchant has a recollection of the conversation, but “not a perfect one”, Mr Greaney told the inquiry.

She believed it was “something to do with praying and political correctness” and had also remembered being told by her colleague about a man praying.

Meanwhile PC Bullough cannot remember the conversation taking place, the inquiry was told.

She was the first police officer to enter the City Rooms after the attack and was commended for her bravery.

The inquiry also heard that a member of the public was “fobbed off” when he reported a man matching the appearance of Abedi to security.

Described as witness A, the onlooker claimed the individual looked “out of place” with his large rucksack.

Mr Greaney explained how witness A went over to the man and asked: “What have you got in your rucksack? It doesn’t look very good, you know what you see with bombs and such, you with a rucksack in a place like this. What are you doing?”

The man told him: “I’m waiting for somebody mate” and asked “Have you got the time?”

Witness A said he did not know and then walked away.

He approached the member of the security team, Mohammed Agha, who “did not seem interested in what he had to say and he felt, in his words, fobbed off,” Mr Greaney said. “It does seem likely that the man witness A saw was Salman Abedi but that will have to be explored in evidence.”

Witness A had been at the concert with his wife, witness B, who had earlier suggested they move away from the man due to him looking suspicious. They had been at the concert to collect their daughter and her friend.

In response to the concerns raised by witness A, Mr Agha spoke to a colleague, Kyle Lawler, eight minutes before the bomb went off. Mr Lawler told police that a member of the public who he believed was ex-military alerted him and Mr Agha and they realised the man with the backpack “didn’t belong there”.

It is the same with the asian grooming gangs- they are not racists,but we white folks are fascists for bringing this to the attention ofthe authorities for many years!

AND guess what? it is still going on. also the Birmingham stabber is black... BLM and all that jazz!
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: faithlilly on September 21, 2020, 10:38:38 PM
Nadeem Ahmed
@Muqadaam
A conservative councillor said “Muslims are violent” and “I do not like Muslims".

Boris Johnson and his party have still not sacked him.

This shows that the party is institutionally racist.
4:57 pm · 21 Sep 2020·Twitter for iPhone

Now imagine if this was a Labour councillor and he had said “Jews are money mad” and “I don’t like Jews”.

It would be all over the media before he’d finished his sentence.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on September 24, 2020, 05:17:41 PM
Nadeem Ahmed
@Muqadaam
A conservative councillor said “Muslims are violent” and “I do not like Muslims".

Boris Johnson and his party have still not sacked him.

This shows that the party is institutionally racist.
4:57 pm · 21 Sep 2020·Twitter for iPhone

Now imagine if this was a Labour councillor and he had said “Jews are money mad” and “I don’t like Jews”.

It would be all over the media before he’d finished his sentence.

Since when did it become a race hate crime o say they do not like people? confused about what racists realy means.

What it used to mean was : hating a person so much you wish them to be dead, or discriminate against them in some form.  The Government have employed many Muslims. so what was your point again?

There is nothing wrong with people saying they do not like xyz people. We are entitled to that opinion what is wrong if they go out of their way to cause hurt or harm in an unprovoked attack.

I take it from your posts you don't like 'tories' does that make YOU a BAD person?

Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 27, 2020, 10:29:51 PM
A security guard who was working on the night of the Manchester Arena attack has told an inquiry he did not raise the alarm about Salman Abedi because he was scared of being "branded a racist”.  How many lives might he have saved had he not been afraid, if he’s been a “racist”?
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 28, 2020, 09:31:08 AM
A security guard who was working on the night of the Manchester Arena attack has told an inquiry he did not raise the alarm about Salman Abedi because he was scared of being "branded a racist”.  How many lives might he have saved had he not been afraid, if he’s been a “racist”?

Yet more evidence that racism is a good thing.
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
Yet more evidence that racism is a good thing.
Racism is not a good thing, but then neither is the labelling of any sensible, precautionary action as racist by hand-wringing sanctimonious (usually white middle class) finger-pointers, as this can sometimes cause just as much harm to the recipient of such slurs as racist behaviour itself.  Common sense must prevail no matter what. 
Title: Re: Is The Tory Party Institutionally Racist....
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 28, 2020, 10:39:58 PM
A security guard who was working on the night of the Manchester Arena attack has told an inquiry he did not raise the alarm about Salman Abedi because he was scared of being "branded a racist”.  How many lives might he have saved had he not been afraid, if he’s been a “racist”?

This is the whole point. if you point out crimes are being committed by people with  black skin  they are being singled out and victimized, if you point out white people are committing crime... oh nothing.  Many areas in this country are a no go area for police as it may 'upset' some people ad interfere with their  kul choor, which seems to trump our culture and laws. Funny that then complain  about that as well.