UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 07:27:57 AM

Title: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 07:27:57 AM

Does anyone know what Goncalo Amaral is up to at the moment?  Or where he is?

I am suffering some serious withdrawal symptoms, so anything will do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 13, 2020, 08:32:55 AM
Who cares? save for the dirt baggers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 13, 2020, 08:37:43 AM
Hopefully self-isolating with plenty of cervezas and sardinas in the frigo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 08:38:00 AM
Who cares? save for the dirt baggers.

What is your definition of a Dirt Bagger?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 08:39:28 AM
Hopefully self-isolating with plenty of cervezas and sardinas in the frigo.

Not The Frigo, surely?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 08:44:44 AM
Does anyone know what Goncalo Amaral is up to at the moment?  Or where he is?

I am suffering some serious withdrawal symptoms, so anything will do.

Haven't heard anything since his interview on Spanish television where he just doesn't appear to be able to get over his obsession with Madeleine's parent ...
Snip
But what I know is that he is not that man. He is another ", says Gonçalo Amaral.

This other indicated by the former inspector is also detained in Germany and he is also a pedophile. According to him, the man was flagged after talking about Maddie in  a pedophile chat room .

Amaral also underlined a new fact about the German signaled: "It is similar, almost equal, to Gerry McCann [father of Madeleine]".
https://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-diz-que-suspeito-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-e-quase-igual-a-gerry-mccann


Interestingly I came across this little snippet from around the same time  https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/  but can find nothing further on the statement ...
Snip
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book on the mysterious plot , in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies on Lisbon properties and at a resort in Cascais. The prosecution proved that her role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network .
============================================

Wonder what that is about?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 08:54:50 AM
Haven't heard anything since his interview on Spanish television where he just doesn't appear to be able to get over his obsession with Madeleine's parent ...
Snip
But what I know is that he is not that man. He is another ", says Gonçalo Amaral.

This other indicated by the former inspector is also detained in Germany and he is also a pedophile. According to him, the man was flagged after talking about Maddie in  a pedophile chat room .

Amaral also underlined a new fact about the German signaled: "It is similar, almost equal, to Gerry McCann [father of Madeleine]".
https://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-diz-que-suspeito-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-e-quase-igual-a-gerry-mccann


Interestingly I came across this little snippet from around the same time  https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/  but can find nothing further on the statement ...
Snip
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book on the mysterious plot , in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies on Lisbon properties and at a resort in Cascais. The prosecution proved that her role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network .
============================================

Wonder what that is about?

Oh Dear.  That's a serious accusation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 13, 2020, 09:00:08 AM
Haven't heard anything since his interview on Spanish television where he just doesn't appear to be able to get over his obsession with Madeleine's parent ...
Snip
But what I know is that he is not that man. He is another ", says Gonçalo Amaral.

This other indicated by the former inspector is also detained in Germany and he is also a pedophile. According to him, the man was flagged after talking about Maddie in  a pedophile chat room .

Amaral also underlined a new fact about the German signaled: "It is similar, almost equal, to Gerry McCann [father of Madeleine]".
https://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-diz-que-suspeito-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-e-quase-igual-a-gerry-mccann


Interestingly I came across this little snippet from around the same time  https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/  but can find nothing further on the statement ...
Snip
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book on the mysterious plot , in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies on Lisbon properties and at a resort in Cascais. The prosecution proved that her role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network .
============================================

Wonder what that is about?
if true that would suggest he is currently an arguido.  Again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 13, 2020, 09:35:37 AM
if true that would suggest he is currently an arguido.  Again.
This is something Ive suspected for some time. Amaral seemed quite close to Christovao .Is it realistic to think other police officers did not at least know what was going on. How much did this thug life mentality pervade through the PJ at that time . Remember we also have Almeida who wrote the interim report, another of amarals pals. found guilty of torture.....but still allowed to keep his job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 09:40:25 AM
This is something Ive suspected for some time. Amaral seemed quite close to Christovao .Is it realistic to think other police officers did not at least know what was going on. How much did this thug life mentality pervade through the PJ at that time . Remember we also have Almeida who wrote the interim report, another of amarals pals. found guilty of torture.....but still allowed to keep his job.

Amaral and Cristovao were bosom pals at one time.  And then they distanced themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 13, 2020, 09:41:44 AM
Amaral and Cristovao were bosom pals at one time.  And then they distanced themselves.

That itself raises questions
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 09:43:08 AM
That itself raises questions

It certainly did for me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Around the time Madeleine went missing we know the Judicial Police were being kept busy with drug busts. https://www.publico.pt/2007/06/15/sociedade/noticia/portimao-novo-organismo-europeu-colaborou-na-apreensao-de-cocaina-1296844 

As far as I know this was the sort of criminality in which Amaral had a particular expertise and not investigating missing children.
I wonder if this had any bearing on the obvious resentment he continues to nurse for Madeleine's parents all these years down the line.  Despite his notions being in my opinion totally sidelined by the SY and PJ investigation and as he himself has been eager to broadcast, the investigation of suspects not known to anyone outwith the investigation.

Good to see he has apparently kept in touch with at least one of his 'sources within the PJ'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 11:15:05 AM

And what about Sofia Leal?  I read somewhere that she had bought a B&B in Spain with the book money, but I have no idea if this is true.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 13, 2020, 11:55:39 AM
And what about Sofia Leal?  I read somewhere that she had bought a B&B in Spain with the book money, but I have no idea if this is true.

When ever did truth matter Eleanor ?

Truth is now what you can make people believe and those astute enough to question that truth are labelled heretics. It certainly is a tipsy turvy world.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 13, 2020, 12:04:46 PM
When ever did truth matter Eleanor ?

Truth is now what you can make people believe and those astute enough to question that truth are labelled heretics. It certainly is a tipsy turvy world.

truth has always mattered ...but not to those who I would label gullible. Amaral made many claims...believed by many...but not backed by evidence.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
When ever did truth matter Eleanor ?

Truth is now what you can make people believe and those astute enough to question that truth are labelled heretics. It certainly is a tipsy turvy world.

It never did to some, Faith.  I think that's the point I'm trying to make.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 13, 2020, 12:54:07 PM
truth has always mattered ...but not to those who I would label gullible. Amaral made many claims...believed by many...but not backed by evidence.

The McCanns also made many claims, believed by many, but not backed by evidence.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
The McCanns also made many claims, believed by many, but not backed by evidence.

The McCanns made their claims based on personal & direct experience of the circumstances surrounding Madeleine's disappearance, not as an observer to the aftermath.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 13, 2020, 01:23:34 PM
The McCanns also made many claims, believed by many, but not backed by evidence.

This thread is Re amaral so you are off topic... I think the decision to believe the mccanns or not is based on lots of real evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 01:58:54 PM
And what about Sofia Leal?  I read somewhere that she had bought a B&B in Spain with the book money, but I have no idea if this is true.

She was still working for the Tourist Board in 2016. https://dre.pt/home/-/dre/73013574/details/maximized but I think she was dismissed for poor work attendance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
She was still working for the Tourist Board in 2016. https://dre.pt/home/-/dre/73013574/details/maximized but I think she was dismissed for poor work attendance.

Interesting.  Or not.  Not sure.  She was never going to divorce Goncalo and then she did.  Something to do with Sofia owning half of a house with Goncalo.

And then it all went quiet and now I am wondering where Goncalo might be living.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
if true that would suggest he is currently an arguido.  Again.

Which may explain the silence emanating from Portugal if there is a shred of truth in the allegation.  The Spanish media would not be covered by the same restriction.

It might indeed explain Amaral's presence as photographed outside the court but not why he has not been mentioned by name.
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f89/19/21/66/92/page8_10.jpg)

Although the Spanish press do not have appeared to have been ruled by the same discretion.
Snip
The man was arrested for participating in a criminal network responsible for organizing various robberies of properties and resorts in Portugal . According to information from the Prosecutor's Office, Pereira's role would have been to provide information about the victims of the crimes.

Gonçalo Amaral, chief investigator of the case, is also being investigated for his participation in the same criminal network, but is currently at large.
https://www.24horas.cl/internacional/policia-involucrado-en-el-caso-de-madeleine-mccann-fue-arrestado-y-condenado-a-siete-anos-y-medio-de-prision-3776769
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 13, 2020, 03:08:57 PM
Which may explain the silence emanating from Portugal if there is a shred of truth in the allegation.  The Spanish media would not be covered by the same restriction.

It might indeed explain Amaral's presence as photographed outside the court but not why he has not been mentioned by name.
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f89/19/21/66/92/page8_10.jpg)

Although the Spanish press do not have appeared to have been ruled by the same discretion.
Snip
The man was arrested for participating in a criminal network responsible for organizing various robberies of properties and resorts in Portugal . According to information from the Prosecutor's Office, Pereira's role would have been to provide information about the victims of the crimes.

Gonçalo Amaral, chief investigator of the case, is also being investigated for his participation in the same criminal network, but is currently at large.
https://www.24horas.cl/internacional/policia-involucrado-en-el-caso-de-madeleine-mccann-fue-arrestado-y-condenado-a-siete-anos-y-medio-de-prision-3776769

Is this photo taken recently outside of court
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 03:13:14 PM
Is this photo taken recently outside of court

No I don't think so.  I think it appeared when Cristovao was first charged with the kidnapping offences etc.  I will check.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 03:27:37 PM
Is this photo taken recently outside of court

The caption reads ...
"Former PJ police colleagues Paulo Pereira Cristovão (pictured left) and Gonçalo Amaral, who also authored a book on Madeleine's disappearance (right) pictured outside the Faro Court in 2008. (Photo: Lusa)"
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments

There are four comments referring to the article which sound a bit outraged please find three below which I think are pertinent to the item in the Spanish press ...

Snip

Of all the pictures available you had to choose one that included Mr. Amaral. You are once again showing your bias against Mr. Amaral. Have you forgotten the Fiasco over the court reports?
===============================================


Really? You're trying to make it look as if Amaral was involved in this?! Why not print a picture of Cristovão with Rogério Alves, the McCanns' lawyer who also defended Cristovão? Now that would be interesting! Poor Portugal News, poor journalism.
===============================================


This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
===============================================


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 13, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
The caption reads ...
"Former PJ police colleagues Paulo Pereira Cristovão (pictured left) and Gonçalo Amaral, who also authored a book on Madeleine's disappearance (right) pictured outside the Faro Court in 2008. (Photo: Lusa)"
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments

There are four comments referring to the article which sound a bit outraged please find three below which I think are pertinent to the item in the Spanish press ...

Snip

Of all the pictures available you had to choose one that included Mr. Amaral. You are once again showing your bias against Mr. Amaral. Have you forgotten the Fiasco over the court reports?
===============================================


Really? You're trying to make it look as if Amaral was involved in this?! Why not print a picture of Cristovão with Rogério Alves, the McCanns' lawyer who also defended Cristovão? Now that would be interesting! Poor Portugal News, poor journalism.
===============================================


This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
===============================================

Very interesting that amaral is being investigated Re the Christovao case..... Very interesting... What will he supporters say... LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 13, 2020, 04:29:14 PM
She was still working for the Tourist Board in 2016. https://dre.pt/home/-/dre/73013574/details/maximized but I think she was dismissed for poor work attendance.
Lazy shirker.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 13, 2020, 04:31:32 PM
Very interesting that amaral is being investigated Re the Christovao case..... Very interesting... What will he supporters say... LOL
Apart from me saying 'probably nothing' in this post, probably nothing.
If it wasn't for a couple of barrel scrapers dredging up any old tat on him on an obscure forum, I doubt anyone knows or indeed cares. LOL.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 13, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
Lazy shirker.
Hey, Misty did quite a bit of work finding that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 13, 2020, 04:34:42 PM
Hey, Misty did quite a bit of work finding that.
For the avoidance of any doubt I was referring to the Saintly Mother Sophia Leal as a lazy shirker, not our dealrly beloved Misty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 04:37:10 PM
Lazy shirker.

To be fair, I think she may have been ill at that time. Equally she has no responsibility for how Goncalo acted & behaved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 04:46:28 PM
Very interesting that amaral is being investigated Re the Christovao case..... Very interesting... What will he supporters say... LOL

Here is Amaral connected to the upper echelons of Benica FC whose president Luis Filipe Vieira has been made an arguido in the ongoing Operation Lex. (see https://algarvedailynews.com/news/13538-judges-and-football-magnates-arrested-in-operation-lex). Op. Lex also involves Judge Rui Rangel, a co-author of one of Amaral's books & someone who opined on Madeleine's case on Portuguese TV.

http://blogs.xl.pt/bolanaarea/2012/10/21/policia-judiciaria-apoia-luis-filipe-vieira/

The list of members of the Honor Committee for Luís Filipe Vieira 's candidacy is extensive . I won't go into too much detail.

I will only mention the following names: António Correia de Oliveira, Duarte Oliveira Martins, José Vasconcellos e Sousa, Leonel Sérgio Pinto, Luís Coelho Ribeiro, Luís Óscar Morais, Manuel Jesus Carvalho, Miguel Albuquerque de Lemos, Rui Gomes Girão, José Coelho da Costa , Gonçalo Amaral and Vítor Tavares de Almeida.

Do not know? It is likely that they are all inspectors or ex-inspectors of the Judicial Police. One even joined the Golden Whistle Process Special Team.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 13, 2020, 06:09:54 PM

Gimme a G
Gimme an O
Gimme an N
Gimme a Z
Gimme another O
........GGGGOOOOOOOOO TEAM GONZO. WOOO!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 13, 2020, 06:11:45 PM
To be fair, I think she may have been ill at that time. Equally she has no responsibility for how Goncalo acted & behaved.
You can’t dismiss people for being genuinely ill, surely?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 13, 2020, 06:13:58 PM
Gimme a G
Gimme an O
Gimme an N
Gimme a Z
Gimme another O
........GGGGOOOOOOOOO TEAM GONZO. WOOO!
His fanclub don’t like it when you call him Gonzo, it sounds like a muppet (apt in my view, but not in theirs).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 06:16:03 PM
We don't actually know that Amaral has been or is being investigated regarding any criminality but there is precedence of the huge playing down of past peccadilloes and there was little knowledge if any, of his status of arguido during the time he was in charge of the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 14, 2020, 08:43:40 AM
We don't actually know that Amaral has been or is being investigated regarding any criminality but there is precedence of the huge playing down of past peccadilloes and there was little knowledge if any, of his status of arguido during the time he was in charge of the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Its an interesting development and anaral was close to him...As Ive said before it seems strange that other officers working with Christovoa were unaware what w sgoing on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 14, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Its an interesting development and anaral was close to him...As Ive said before it seems strange that other officers working with Christovoa were unaware what w sgoing on.

Cristovao appears to have been engaged with other PJ Officers in this enterprise.  How did he recruit them in the first place?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 10:34:09 AM
Cristovao appears to have been engaged with other PJ Officers in this enterprise.  How did he recruit them in the first place?

Were I setting up or getting involved in the mafia type criminal enterprise of which Cristovao was found guilty, I would have to know and trust the other criminals involved implicitly.

The cohort of the organisation he was involved with obviously met that requirement and one wonders just how far the tentacles spread out, for how long and encompassing whom.

It was interesting that there was no furore made when Amaral shared a television chat room sofa with individuals who now appear to have fallen foul of the Portuguese State but a photograph showing him with his associate on the start of his fall from grace was enough to set the cat among the pigeons with the resulting spitting of feathers.

If it was a subliminal message from the press it was certainly picked up on by those in the know but I think there might be a little difficulty in pinning the blame for the outcome on Madeleine (or "it") or her parents ... the source is, as always, closer to home than that.

Snip
"This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low (sic) and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 14, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Were I setting up or getting involved in the mafia type criminal enterprise of which Cristovao was found guilty, I would have to know and trust the other criminals involved implicitly.

The cohort of the organisation he was involved with obviously met that requirement and one wonders just how far the tentacles spread out, for how long and encompassing whom.

It was interesting that there was no furore made when Amaral shared a television chat room sofa with individuals who now appear to have fallen foul of the Portuguese State but a photograph showing him with his associate on the start of his fall from grace was enough to set the cat among the pigeons with the resulting spitting of feathers.

If it was a subliminal message from the press it was certainly picked up on by those in the know but I think there might be a little difficulty in pinning the blame for the outcome on Madeleine (or "it") or her parents ... the source is, as always, closer to home than that.

Snip
"This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low (sic) and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments

Did not Goncalo Amaral threaten to abduct the small daughter of his ex girl friend in that infamous phone call when she ended the relationship?

That in itself could be worrying.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 12:01:15 PM
Did not Goncalo Amaral threaten to abduct the small daughter of his ex girl friend in that infamous phone call when she ended the relationship?

That in itself could be worrying.

  🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️ I doubt there will be any trace of that left on the internet now.  What was it ... the golden gun???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 12:43:04 PM
  🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️ I doubt there will be any trace of that left on the internet now.  What was it ... the golden gun???

I was wrong; there is still mention of the episode in various places including on this forum.  Don't know where the 'golden gun' came from in my memory but with or without, it makes illuminating reading when giving thought to the sort of behaviour of which Amaral appears to be capable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2020, 07:17:21 PM
I was wrong; there is still mention of the episode in various places including on this forum.  Don't know where the 'golden gun' came from in my memory but with or without, it makes illuminating reading when giving thought to the sort of behaviour of which Amaral appears to be capable.

I think it was The Golden Bullet.  And not actually The Gun.  This is not a very nice man.  Amaral and his friends threatened to to destroy her.  And they tried.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
I think it was The Golden Bullet.  And not actually The Gun.  This is not a very nice man.  Amaral and his friends threatened to to destroy her.  And they tried.

Any evidence of this alleged incident perchance? Apart from a blog with just one entry and no names, of course.  8(>((
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
Any evidence of this alleged incident perchance? Apart from a blog with just one entry and no names, of course.  8(>((

Didn't J. Morais do a thing about it on her blog which confirmed this particular incident?  It is a long time ago now and unfortunately links to peccadilloes which existed at the time no longer work.

Some posters as on fora such as ours copied the original articles which have kept a record of sorts of what was reported in the Portuguese press at the time.

I don't think we'll ever know the half of it.

These can still be found either by accident or design and are still able to stand as testimony that the "golden bullet" episode - among others - is without doubt a fact which illustrates the nature of Goncalo Amaral and perhaps even those with whom he is associated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 10:15:33 AM
Didn't J. Morais do a thing about it on her blog which confirmed this particular incident?  It is a long time ago now and unfortunately inks to peccadilloes which existed at the time no longer work.

Some posters as on fora such as ours copied the original articles which have kept a record of sorts of what was reported in the Portuguese press at the time.

I don't think we'll ever know the half of it.

These can still be found either by accident or design and are still able to stand as testimony that the "golden bullet" episode - among others - is without doubt a fact which illustrates the nature of Goncalo Amaral and perhaps even those with whom he is associated.

Thanks Brietta.  J Morais did do a Blog about this and The Phone Call was recorded On Line in Portuguese and then Translated.

The incident at a party held by Amaral when there was an attempt to attack this unfortunate lady was reported in The Portuguese Press.  It happened in the street and was witnessed, although nothing appears to have been done about it.

I put this down to the unquestionable rights of some members of The PJ at the time.

Goncalo Amaral owed shed loads of money to Banks, Mortgage Companies and The Portuguese Inland Revenue at the time which so far does not seem to have been recovered, although what was left of his Book Money was sequestered by The Court and not by The McCanns.

Also in 2002 Amaral and Sofia Leal were found guilty of misappropriating funds belonging to Amaral's brother and I don't suppose that the brother ever got that back either.

So much for The Honour of Goncalo Amaral and his wife.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Thanks Brietta.  J Morais did do a Blog about this and The Phone Call was recorded On Line in Portuguese and then Translated.

The incident at a party held by Amaral when there was an attempt to attack this unfortunate lady was reported in The Portuguese Press.  It happened in the street and was witnessed, although nothing appears to have been done about it.

I put this down to the unquestionable rights of some members of The PJ at the time.

Goncalo Amaral owed shed loads of money to Banks, Mortgage Companies and The Portuguese Inland Revenue at the time which so far does not seem to have been recovered, although what was left of his Book Money was sequestered by The Court and not by The McCanns.

Also in 2002 Amaral and Sofia Leal were found guilty of misappropriating funds belonging to Amaral's brother and I don't suppose that the brother ever got that back either.

So much for The Honour of Goncalo Amaral and his wife.

Anyway ... we have a bit of an idea that in the past Goncalo Amaral has had a few suspect dealings with individuals including as Sofia might say his 'Latin' side ... but in the main involving fraud of some kind or other.

For example, the court case involving his brother and the perjury trial; from both of which he emerged on the losing side.

But he has been very quiet - for him - of late.  So what is he doing now?

According to the Spanish press ...

Snip
Apparently this was a way of acting typical of the former police officer, since, as it is remembered, Paulo Pereira Cristovao was one of the main figures who pointed to Madeleine's parents as responsible for his disappearance.

A case because of its social impact, earned its participation in a recent documentary on Netflix which provides statements on the case of the smallest and also the publication of his book "La estrella de Madeleine" (The Star of Madeleine).

Like this former police officer, Gonçalo Amaral , who was the investigator in charge of Madeleine's case, is also under suspicion of having participated in another criminal network. Despite this, he is released until such information is verified.
https://larepublica.pe/mundo/2019/12/07/madeleine-mccann-policia-que-investigo-el-caso-va-a-la-carcel-por-estar-involucrado-en-red-criminal-desaparicion-portugal-trata-de-personas-rddr/

Certainly raises a thought in my mind about whether or not the imprisoned German paedophile fingered by Amaral, actually is the focus of the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard investigations.
Or is it something entirely different.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 01:30:49 PM

Was Amaral a dishonourable man?  Or was it just the way of the World in a Post Revolution time?  Were The PJ exempt from question?  One could hardly blame Amaral if this was so.  It was what he was brought up and educated to believe, and perhaps what he hoped for.  After all, the peasants have to be controlled.

I saw some of this during my visits to Portugal in the 70s.  And thought that it was a bit of a laugh.  How could ordinary people be so afraid?  I didn't believe that they could.  But I didn't know that these ordinary people were being Tortured just for the sake of solving a case.

I will never believe that Amaral didn't know that Leonore Cipriano was being tortured.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2020, 02:52:02 PM
Was Amaral a dishonourable man?  Or was it just the way of the World in a Post Revolution time?  Were The PJ exempt from question?  One could hardly blame Amaral if this was so.  It was what he was brought up and educated to believe, and perhaps what he hoped for.  After all, the peasants have to be controlled.

I saw some of this during my visits to Portugal in the 70s.  And thought that it was a bit of a laugh.  How could ordinary people be so afraid?  I didn't believe that they could.  But I didn't know that these ordinary people were being Tortured just for the sake of solving a case.

I will never believe that Amaral didn't know that Leonore Cipriano was being tortured.

If memory serves me well part of the threat levelled by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' audio recording was to life and liberty by planting evidence.
Which would be quite frightening considering that he had the means to do so.  Such a threat if directed at me, would certainly have ruffled my feathers.

Anyway, I think you are right in what you post about a certain attitude of entitlement among some former PJ which appears to be borne out in an interview with an old friend ...

Snip
MF – What really made them mad was being made arguidos.

GA – Now that you know the process, tell me… Under the old Penal Process, how do I ask Kate: "Are you lying when you say you didn't touch the window? As a matter of fact, it was you who opened the window. We have material evidence of that." A question like this forces the constitution of arguido because it invades her sphere of constitutional rights. I have to give her the right not to reply, instead of lying. The only solution was to make her an arguida.

MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realised anything, she'd be in jail.
GA – Right, but in your time, in our old times, investigation was made with fuel. Now we all move on honey.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id173.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 03:32:40 PM

Amaral also told his departing lady friend that if he abducted her daughter then the child would never be seen again.  How did he think he could do this?

In the light of intervening years we have all forgotten so much of how dreadfully smug he was about who he thought he was and how right he was going to be proved to be when short of a hefty smack to whoever he thought was guilty.

One can only thank God that this didn't happen to Kate McCann.  She might well have caved in.  But The World was watching by then.

I am still bemused by it all, but things moved on and ceased to be important beyond his own get out of jail card.  Amaral is now a busted flush.

Leonor Cipriano served 16 years for a murder that she almost certainly didn't commit.  That is the real horror story.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 17, 2020, 05:33:48 PM
Amaral also told his departing lady friend that if he abducted her daughter then the child would never be seen again.  How did he think he could do this?

In the light of intervening years we have all forgotten so much of how dreadfully smug he was about who he thought he was and how right he was going to be proved to be when short of a hefty smack to whoever he thought was guilty.

One can only thank God that this didn't happen to Kate McCann.  She might well have caved in.  But The World was watching by then.

I am still bemused by it all, but things moved on and ceased to be important beyond his own get out of jail card.  Amaral is now a busted flush.

Leonor Cipriano served 16 years for a murder that she almost certainly didn't commit.  That is the real horror story.

 Goncalo Amaral interviewed by Miguel Sousa Tavares.



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 07:24:09 PM
Goncalo Amaral interviewed by Miguel Sousa Tavares.



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.


And very few people actually did, even in Portugal where no one was allowed to express an opinion, for fear of what would happen to them.

I hope that things have changed somewhat, but I doubt that they actually have.  Portugal has too much to lose and too many past obscenities of actual Justice.
 
Goncalo Amaral was only a very little coq in a very big wheel.  But he was the one who brought it all down.

The rest of them can say what they like but they are no better or more able.

Portugal is now a joke.  There will be no other cases ever taken to a Portuguese Court that will pass unnoticed.

This is the legacy of what was done by Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2020, 09:13:23 AM
Does anyone know what Goncalo Amaral is up to at the moment?  Or where he is?

I am suffering some serious withdrawal symptoms, so anything will do.

Well it seems that Goncalo Amaral is playing things very close to his chest at the moment since no-one seems to have any current information about what he has been doing with himself.

Long may it continue ... but it does raise the thought that life might have been so different for so many people had he had the common decency to take that course of action when he was sacked from Madeleine's case back in 2007.

Then since that was partly for shooting his mouth off it seems that is just what he does in any given situation.  Until now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Well it seems that Goncalo Amaral is playing things very close to his chest at the moment since no-one seems to have any current information about what he has been doing with himself.

Long may it continue ... but it does raise the thought that life might have been so different for so many people had he had the common decency to take that course of action when he was sacked from Madeleine's case back in 2007.

Then since that was partly for shooting his mouth off it seems that is just what he does in any given situation.  Until now.

He’s been vindicated Brietta. I’m sure for him there’s little left to say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2020, 05:55:00 PM
He’s been vindicated Brietta. I’m sure for him there’s little left to say.
In the paralell universe where Corbyn is  a legend...yes
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2020, 07:07:21 PM
In the paralell universe where Corbyn is  a legend...yes

The McCanns took Amaral to court. They lost the case and Amaral won. You may not agree with the verdict but that’s of no consequence. Now the ECHR may still look at the case and the McCanns may even win but they will win against the Portuguese state and the win will detract in no way from the verdict in the libel trial. Amaral will still have been vindicated and will still have said all he needs to say.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
The McCanns took Amaral to court. They lost the case and Amaral won. You may not agree with the verdict but that’s of no consequence. Now the ECHR may still look at the case and the McCanns may even win but they will win against the Portuguese state and the win will detract in no way from the verdict in the libel trial. Amaral will still have been vindicated and will still have said all he needs to say.

My opinion based on looking at other ECHR cases is that the ECHR will be not only critical of the Portuguese Courts but also of Amaral. It is the Mccanns who will therefore be vindicated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2020, 08:01:55 PM
My opinion based on looking at other ECHR cases is that the ECHR will be not only critical of the Portuguese Courts but also of Amaral. It is the Mccanns who will therefore be vindicated.

Whether the court is critical of Amaral, whether it is even within it’s remit, it changes nothing for him. It will not change the verdict of the Portuguese nor his vindication nor that he needs to say not another word.

And with the facts established I take my leave.

Cheery Bye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2020, 08:13:10 PM
Whether the court is critical of Amaral, whether it is even within it’s remit, it changes nothing for him. It will not change the verdict of the Portuguese nor his vindication nor that he needs to say not another word.

And with the facts established I take my leave.

Cheery Bye.

It is within its remit....I think your posts belong to that parallel universe where corbyn is  a legend. I think this poster got it just about right....I wont give the posters name..


If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2020, 08:31:07 PM
It is within its remit....I think your posts belong to that parallel universe where corbyn is  a legend. I think this poster got it just about right....I wont give the posters name..


If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.

 (&^&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2020, 09:18:47 PM
(&^&

You obviously dont know which poster on here said that....do you. I agree with her...its bang on. you shouldnt be so disrespectful to a poster you have so much respect for.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
Whether the court is critical of Amaral, whether it is even within it’s remit, it changes nothing for him. It will not change the verdict of the Portuguese nor his vindication nor that he needs to say not another word.

And with the facts established I take my leave.

Cheery Bye.

Looking at the facts from the other side of the line shows that Amaral is a convicted criminal and many of his known associates are also convicted criminals.  None more so than Cristovao who along with Amaral has dedicated much of his time to advocating that Madeleine McCann is dead and badmouthing her parents on the media circuit for good measure.

What has Amaral been doing of late appears to be not a lot and one can't help wondering why that should be particularly since no-one seems to know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2020, 09:42:57 AM
(&^&

this was the claim you thought was ridiculous..

If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.


this post was ande by gunit...and i think on this occasion she is spot on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 21, 2020, 11:31:13 AM
this was the claim you thought was ridiculous..

If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.


this post was ande by gunit...and i think on this occasion she is spot on

"ande by gunit"?

Don't give up your day job.

 (&^&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2020, 11:57:50 AM
"ande by gunit"?

Don't give up your day job.

 (&^&

Cut the sarcasm, if you please.  There is no need for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2020, 12:39:04 PM
"ande by gunit"?

Don't give up your day job.

 (&^&

I certainly wont..its far too rewarding....Im not a typist....I see you are just trying to deflect from the fact gunit made the post that you thought was so  laughable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2020, 12:40:26 PM
Cut the sarcasm, if you please.  There is no need for it.

I'm actually fine with it. Its an admission  that the poster cant address the point made in the post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
I'm actually fine with it. Its an admission  that the poster cant address the point made in the post.

I know.  But I mind and I am not fine with it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
I'm actually fine with it. Its an admission  that the poster cant address the point made in the post.

Actually both posts do prove a point.

Initially, when Goncalo Amaral became the almost invisible man ... my thoughts were exactly that ... "If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country." G-unit

Nor does it appear that there is anything anyone can say about his lack of a media profile over the past few months or I'm sure someone would have gone to the bother of posting it.

It really does suggest to me that things have gone quiet as a result of yet another of Cristavao's convictions for serious crime and whether or not Goncalo Amaral is presently also being investigated.

Someone knows whether or not there is any foundation in Spanish press reports from December saying unequivocally he is ...
Snip
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network . However, he will remain free until his judicial situation is defined.
https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/

... or someone telling us he is not (maybe even him?)  Should be easy enough one would have thought.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 21, 2020, 04:26:05 PM
Wow, SIL on 50% - did he kill someone??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 22, 2020, 11:31:27 PM
Wow, SIL on 50% - did he kill someone??

Makes even you wonder!  &%%6
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 23, 2020, 08:39:02 AM
Makes even you wonder!  &%%6
Yes because in the past he has been incredibly rude, transgressing forum rules and the most he has ever received is 5% warning, so this time it must have been very serious indeed. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 10:02:20 AM
Anyway ... does anyone have anything of interest to say about Goncalo Amaral and his apparent reticence to hit the airwaves of late (really not like him}.

I've speculated on three? options ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 10:28:07 AM
Anyway ... does anyone have anything of interest to say about Goncalo Amaral and his apparent reticence to hit the airwaves of late (really not like him}.

I've speculated on three? options ...
  • he may be worried about the McCann action in the ECHR and decided to wait for the outcome
  • there may be implications for him arising from the Cristovao affair
  • he may have finally seen the light and realised the wrong path he took regarding Madeleine's investigation and in particular, its aftermath

Love the third option.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 23, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
Love the third option.

He surely must see now just how wrong he was
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 11:20:44 AM
Love the third option.

I don't think he is a stupid man so I think it has probably been apparent to him for quite some time but the fees for his TV appearances as a Madeleine pundit no doubt came in handy.

Which leads me back to option two.  He did nothing that Cristovao didn't also do like two peas in a pod as regards Madeleine and her family.  I think he may be feeling the heat from that association.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 23, 2020, 11:42:07 AM
Anyway ... does anyone have anything of interest to say about Goncalo Amaral and his apparent reticence to hit the airwaves of late (really not like him}.

I've speculated on three? options ...
  • he may be worried about the McCann action in the ECHR and decided to wait for the outcome
  • there may be implications for him arising from the Cristovao affair
  • he may have finally seen the light and realised the wrong path he took regarding Madeleine's investigation and in particular, its aftermath

As media interest in general has declined I don't find it significant at all that Amaral has made no comment lately. The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell are also keeping quiet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 11:49:48 AM
He surely must see now just how wrong he was

I very much doubt it.  Presuming he believed it all in the first place, which I also doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 23, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
As media interest in general has declined I don't find it significant at all that Amaral has made no comment lately. The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell are also keeping quiet.

What is significant is that he had been mentioned Re the Christavao case... Which really doesn't surprise me
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 02:27:59 PM
As media interest in general has declined I don't find it significant at all that Amaral has made no comment lately. The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell are also keeping quiet.

Media interest in almost everything but corona virus has waned but that is recent ... Amaral's radio silence long predates that.

The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell will not speak while Madeleine's disappearance is subject of a live investigation, I think you know that;  unlike Amaral who has never shown the same reticence under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 06:17:06 PM

Amaral might have been warned of the likely out come of the application to The ECHR.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 06:49:08 PM
Amaral might have been warned of the likely out come of the application to The ECHR.

That was my assumption until I came across the December Spanish reports associating him with Cristovao's conviction for organised crime.

I think he would be right to be concerned about the ECHR outcome from the point of view of 'losing face' which I think is important to him ... but would that have been enough to silence him.
Don't forget this is the guy who tried to sell the notion without a blush, that Madeleine's body had been smuggled into the church and put into a coffin with a lady's body who was scheduled to be cremated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 23, 2020, 07:03:59 PM
Amaral might have been warned of the likely out come of the application to The ECHR.

I think thats quite possible...i think  a recipe for humble pie might be very useful for some posters
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 07:51:22 PM
I think thats quite possible...i think  a recipe for humble pie might be very useful for some posters

Let's keep this pleasant please.  Amaral's downfall in whatever form is what I want especially if he has been up to no good with Cristovao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 23, 2020, 08:04:13 PM
Let's keep this pleasant please.  Amaral's downfall in whatever form is what I want especially if he has been up to no good with Cristovao.

i think my post is pleasant...amaral ahs received a lot of support on this forum...i think i should be allowed to say that the support is misplaced...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2020, 07:17:42 AM
i think my post is pleasant...amaral ahs received a lot of support on this forum...i think i should be allowed to say that the support is misplaced...

There is nothing wrong with saying that you think the support was misplaced.  I think it was.  But that isn't quite what you said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 24, 2020, 09:16:18 AM
anyone noticed sils not about...hope theres nothing wrong.....hes normally here 24/7
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 24, 2020, 10:12:28 AM
anyone noticed sils not about...hope theres nothing wrong.....hes normally here 24/7

I certainly hope all is well with him and his family.

When he is on form he makes a valuable contribution to the forum;  what stands out for me was the series of photographs he contributed and I was hoping he might have heard some gossip of interest to this thread, but since Portugal is on lock down like us I rather think that unlikely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 24, 2020, 05:19:43 PM
anyone noticed sils not about...hope theres nothing wrong.....hes normally here 24/7
Perhaps he will be back when his 50% warning has been spent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 24, 2020, 07:30:37 PM
Perhaps he will be back when his 50% warning has been spent.

its not called the Justice Forum for nothing.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 24, 2020, 07:34:57 PM
getting back on topic...goncalo amaral....I wonder why sil called his dog Goncarlo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2020, 07:42:18 PM
getting back on topic...goncalo amaral....I wonder why sil called his dog Goncarlo.

The dog is actually called Lally which I think is nice.  And let's face it, shouting out "Heel, Gonçalo" on The Algarve might cause some consternation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on April 25, 2020, 08:45:31 AM
The dog is actually called Lally which I think is nice.  And let's face it, shouting out "Heel, Gonçalo" on The Algarve might cause some consternation.
The dogs called goncalo.... Which it seems he, has, now changed, to lally... Probably for the reason you describe. I really don't understand why anyone following this case, would call their pet goncalo..
Sil might explain when he, returns

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg528981#msg528981
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 23, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
Apart from me saying 'probably nothing' in this post, probably nothing.
If it wasn't for a couple of barrel scrapers dredging up any old tat on him on an obscure forum, I doubt anyone knows or indeed cares. LOL.



Spot on Gen.

What I would like to know -  what perfect cop are they comparing him with either in the UK or elsewhere
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 23, 2020, 07:15:37 PM


Spot on Gen.

What I would like to know -  what perfect cop are they comparing him with either in the UK or elsewhere

There are no perfect cops ....but there are bad cops ...and thats what I believe amaral is...based on the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 23, 2020, 07:18:12 PM

I don't know why people are still talking about him, considering Scotland Yard have proven Maggie was abducted.
He's 2007's chip paper.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 23, 2020, 07:26:22 PM
I don't know why people are still talking about him, considering Scotland Yard have proven Maggie was abducted.
He's 2007's chip paper.

because sceptics seem to think in sime way hes imnportant but on this occasion i agree  hes 2007 chip paper
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 23, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
I don't know why people are still talking about him, considering Scotland Yard have proven Maggie was abducted.
He's 2007's chip paper.

Is this the same guy who won through in the appeal courts right up to the supreme court?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 23, 2020, 07:30:53 PM
Is this the same guy who won through in the appeal courts right up to the supreme court?

yes the same guy supported by the courts who have an absolutely pathetic record when challenged by the ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 23, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
yes the same guy supported by the courts who have an absolutely pathetic record when challenged by the ECHR

If the McCanns had put as much effort into basic child care as they have in pursuing some ex detective through the Portuguese civil courts, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 23, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
If the McCanns had put as much effort into basic child care as they have in pursuing some ex detective through the Portuguese civil courts, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
So you d to accept that the McCann's level of childcare.. Which  I consider as poor is about the same as Portuguese justice which I rate also poor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 24, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
yes the same guy supported by the courts who have an absolutely pathetic record when challenged by the ECHR

Never the less he can't be challenged by the echr,still mights and maybe's no doubt will be the come back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 24, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
Never the less he can't be challenged by the echr,still mights and maybe's no doubt will be the come back.
Potentially he could be silenced by the ECHR if the court rules in the McCann's favour although not much being said now. The ECHR could also rule that Amarals claims were not backed by evidence and also criticise the SC for statements such as the McCann's have not been ruled innocent. That's a particularly stupid statement imo because suspects even found not guilty in court are not ruled innocent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 24, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Potentially he could be silenced by the ECHR if the court rules in the McCann's favour although not much being said now. The ECHR could also rule that Amarals claims were not backed by evidence and also criticise the SC for statements such as the McCann's have not been ruled innocent. That's a particularly stupid statement imo because suspects even found not guilty in court are not ruled innocent.

Explain how, where and why  individuals have been silenced by the echr.
lest ye forget.
McCann/Healy v Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 24, 2020, 12:28:52 PM
Explain how, where and why  individuals have been silenced by the echr.
lest ye forget.
McCann/Healy v Portugal.

it really is quite simple. The SC judgement went to great lenghts to show it was complying with ECHR law. If the ECHR rule the SC violated the McCanns human rights then any further opinions by amaral could result in a new case against him then the portuguese courts would have to support the McCanns or show that they had no respect for laws that they used to support amarals claims
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 24, 2020, 02:37:45 PM
Potentially he could be silenced by the ECHR if the court rules in the McCann's favour although not much being said now. The ECHR could also rule that Amarals claims were not backed by evidence and also criticise the SC for statements such as the McCann's have not been ruled innocent. That's a particularly stupid statement imo because suspects even found not guilty in court are not ruled innocent.

This is only speculation D - you don't know what the outcome is going to be just your hope IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 24, 2020, 03:18:10 PM
This is only speculation D - you don't know what the outcome is going to be just your hope IMO.

Thats why i said he could...rather than would. Its not hope at all its opinion based on knowledge. I've looked at quite  a few ECHR cases concerning the balance between articles 8 and 10. Then we have portugals very poor record at the ECHR which gunit showed us a link to. it's just  a matter of time.

berween 1959 and 2015 portugal had 309 cases heard at the ECHR. Only in 13 of those cases did the court rule no violation of human rights....thats very poor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 24, 2020, 04:27:52 PM
Thats why i said he could...rather than would. Its not hope at all its opinion based on knowledge. I've looked at quite  a few ECHR cases concerning the balance between articles 8 and 10. Then we have portugals very poor record at the ECHR which gunit showed us a link to. it's just  a matter of time.

berween 1959 and 2015 portugal had 309 cases heard at the ECHR. Only in 13 of those cases did the court rule no violation of human rights....thats very poor

But at this moment in time, GA won his appeal against the mccs - therefore what he said still stands.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 24, 2020, 05:17:27 PM
But at this moment in time, GA won his appeal against the mccs - therefore what he said still stands.

What he said was nonsense. 

All that happened was that the Portuguese Court ruled he was entitled to his 'honour'.  It will be interesting to see what the ECHR thinks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 24, 2020, 06:10:29 PM
What he said was nonsense. 

All that happened was that the Portuguese Court ruled he was entitled to his 'honour'.  It will be interesting to see what the ECHR thinks.

So at least you agree GA still has  honor - you are another one really pinning hopes on ECHR imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 24, 2020, 06:12:18 PM
But at this moment in time, GA won his appeal against the mccs - therefore what he said still stands.

Not sure what you mean by "stands". Are you claiming the SC judement means his opinion is correct...it doesnt.
If you read his book and listen to the documentary its clear his opinion is based on his inability to understand the evidence....that's nothing to be proud of.
then we have Pedro da Carmo when he was head of the PJ confirming the Mccanns are not suspects and theres no evidence aginst them. it will be interesting to se what the ECHR say about the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 24, 2020, 06:13:12 PM
So at least you agree GA still has  honor - you are another one really pinning hopes on ECHR imo.

I dont think he has any honor and that isnt what Brietta said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 24, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
Not sure what you mean by "stands". Are you claiming the SC judement means his opinion is correct...it doesnt.
If you read his book and listen to the documentary its clear his opinion is based on his inability to understand the evidence....that's nothing to be proud of.
then we have Pedro da Carmo when he was head of the PJ confirming the Mccanns are not suspects and theres no evidence aginst them. it will be interesting to se what the ECHR say about the case.

Its not in the echr's remit to comment on supposed ongoing criminal investigations is it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 24, 2020, 06:31:51 PM
Its not in the echr's remit to comment on supposed ongoing criminal investigations is it?

the case im referring to is mccanns vs portugal
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2020, 12:03:32 AM
So at least you agree GA still has  honor - you are another one really pinning hopes on ECHR imo.

You misunderstand me.  I think Amaral has proved categorically that he is not a man who could be described as being honourable ... quite the reverse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2020, 12:14:37 AM
Its not in the echr's remit to comment on supposed ongoing criminal investigations is it?

That's interesting you should mention an ongoing criminal investigation bearing in mind that there was a report Amaral was being investigated in the aftermath of Cristovao's crimes.  Have you heard anything further about that domestic action which seems to be under the veil of secrecy legislation and a suspiciously quiet Amaral?

As Davel has pointed out the present ECHR action concerns Portugal ... not Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 06:54:07 AM
That's interesting you should mention an ongoing criminal investigation bearing in mind that there was a report Amaral was being investigated in the aftermath of Cristovao's crimes.  Have you heard anything further about that domestic action which seems to be under the veil of secrecy legislation and a suspiciously quiet Amaral?

As Davel has pointed out the present ECHR action concerns Portugal ... not Amaral.
At last the nettle is grasped.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 08:20:55 AM
That's interesting you should mention an ongoing criminal investigation bearing in mind that there was a report Amaral was being investigated in the aftermath of Cristovao's crimes.  Have you heard anything further about that domestic action which seems to be under the veil of secrecy legislation and a suspiciously quiet Amaral?

As Davel has pointed out the present ECHR action concerns Portugal ... not Amaral.

a suspiciously quiet Amaral?


IMO more a dignified silence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 08:34:55 AM
At last the nettle is grasped.
Amaral will not be involved. But his statements and the validity of them will.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 08:43:41 AM
Amaral will not be involved. But his statements and the validity of them will.

Given there's no sign of Madeleine its hard to question the validity,thats more opinion based, more the validity of a Portuguese citizens right to free speech and all that jazz under their laws.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 08:48:33 AM
Given there's no sign of Madeleine its hard to question the validity,thats more opinion based, more the validity of a Portuguese citizens right to free speech and all that jazz under their laws.

It's very easy to question the validity... From what I've seen of other cases it's whether those statements were based on sound evidence... They clearly were not.... And it's European law here... The balance between articles 8 and 10.
Remember that the right to free speech has limitations
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 09:01:17 AM
It's very easy to question the validity... From what I've seen of other cases it's whether those statements were based on sound evidence... They clearly were not.... And it's European law here... The balance between articles 8 and 10.
Remember that the right to free speech has limitations

The validity cannot be determined until the fate of Madeleine is known.Its about the right of the Portuguese in allowing a book to be published under their laws.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 09:07:27 AM
The validity cannot be determined until the fate of Madeleine is known.Its about the right of the Portuguese in allowing a book to be published under their laws.
Again you don't seem to understand.. It's not Portuguese laws on which the decision will be made... Its ECHR.
And from what I have seen in other cases it will be based on whether amaral statements were based on sound or reasonable evidence. They were not.

then we have the fact that the SC said the presumption of innocense does not apply in civil cases ,  according to the ECHR it does. Where the SC erred imo , was the exclusion of the presumotion of innocence does  apply to cases such as Barry George
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 09:15:49 AM
Again you don't seem to understand.. It's not Portuguese laws on which the decision will be made... Its ECHR.
And from what I have seen in other cases it will be based on whether amaral statements were based on sound or reasonable evidence. They were not

If at some stage its found to be even in part to have been correct,the echr will have egg on its face should it rule against Portugal whilst the case is supposed to be ongoing,anyhow suns out and lots not to do,but some moron or degenerate will no doubt in the form of a mouthpiece in the not to distant future will say that covid crisis will mean a delay like the brexit debacle was supposed to have done.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 09:18:12 AM
If at some stage its found to be even in part to have been correct,the echr will have egg on its face should it rule against Portugal whilst the case is supposed to be ongoing,anyhow suns out and lots not to do,but some moron or degenerate will no doubt in the form of a mouthpiece in the not to distant future will say that covid crisis will mean a delay like the brexit debacle was supposed to have done.

Again you dont seem to understand....madeleines fate is not in question...its whether the statements by amaral were based on reasonable evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 09:41:09 AM
Again you dont seem to understand....madeleines fate is not in question...its whether the statements by amaral were based on reasonable evidence.

Well GA was there - so it is reasonable to say it is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 09:46:37 AM
Well GA was there - so it is reasonable to say it is.

again you dont seem to understand.....its the evidence amaral used to reach his conclusions which are important...his reasoning was flawed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 09:51:59 AM
from amarals book..

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it's Keela's turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred

so amarl claims that if both dogs alert then its  taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred...that simply is not true

Almeida told the court in the libel case... The main evidence against the McCann's was the alerts..... Flawed evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2020, 09:54:24 AM
Amaral will not be involved. But his statements and the validity of them will.

I wonder if a convicted perjurer and a close associate of torturers and convicted criminals of the worst sort can be considered 'dignified' just by dint of keeping his mouth shut for a change.
Or might it be that journalists like Sandra Felgueiras finally realised how they had been used and abused resulting in his invitations to the chat room sofas drying up and the double act of Amaral & Cristóvão lost its erstwhile credibility and became toxic.


Snip
In July 2008, however, the journalist has access to the process that, until then, was a secret of justice. «When I go to see the preliminary result, which Gonçalo Amaral told me about, and which led him to constitute the McCanns as defendants, I see that the last paragraph said that, despite there being 17 alleles in 20, the sample was so insignificant and small that there were several people in the laboratory with the same genetic identification. Therefore, this evidence could not be considered relevant », he explains.
Sandra Felgueiras feels «deeply deceived». This paragraph was instrumental in undermining everything that had been done before. «At no time did Gonçalo Amaral tell me that the sample was so small and criminally irrelevant», he stresses.
https://www.impala.pt/noticias/portugal-e-o-mundo/sandra-felgueiras-maddie-mccann/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 12:18:53 PM
I wonder if a convicted perjurer and a close associate of torturers and convicted criminals of the worst sort can be considered 'dignified' just by dint of keeping his mouth shut for a change.
Or might it be that journalists like Sandra Felgueiras finally realised how they had been used and abused resulting in his invitations to the chat room sofas drying up and the double act of Amaral & Cristóvão lost its erstwhile credibility and became toxic.


Snip
In July 2008, however, the journalist has access to the process that, until then, was a secret of justice. «When I go to see the preliminary result, which Gonçalo Amaral told me about, and which led him to constitute the McCanns as defendants, I see that the last paragraph said that, despite there being 17 alleles in 20, the sample was so insignificant and small that there were several people in the laboratory with the same genetic identification. Therefore, this evidence could not be considered relevant », he explains.
Sandra Felgueiras feels «deeply deceived». This paragraph was instrumental in undermining everything that had been done before. «At no time did Gonçalo Amaral tell me that the sample was so small and criminally irrelevant», he stresses.
https://www.impala.pt/noticias/portugal-e-o-mundo/sandra-felgueiras-maddie-mccann/

Still doesn't alter the fact - he won the case against the mccs his book is still there for all to read.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 12:32:58 PM
Still doesn't alter the fact - he won the case against the mccs his book is still there for all to read.
The case has moved on.. No evidence against the McCann's according to the present investigation..

Amaral convicted of perjury.. Almeida who wrote the first report guilty of torture in another case... Their colleague Christavao convicted of corruption.. Burglary.. Violence.
But of course in your eyes they are all honourable men

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 01:01:09 PM
from amarals book..

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it's Keela's turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred

so amarl claims that if both dogs alert then its  taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred...that simply is not true

Almeida told the court in the libel case... The main evidence against the McCann's was the alerts..... Flawed evidence

No's 6 and 7  undisputed facts.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 01:15:16 PM
No's 6 and 7  undisputed facts.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].


Just shows how misinformed the Portuguese police were. Duarte tried to point this out.....Gerry tried to point it out...the court wouldnt listen. Amaral and the PJ were told at a meeting with Harrison and Grime the alerts had no evidential value. They wouldnt listen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
No's 6 and 7  undisputed facts.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].


Plus....thats a poor translation of.........marcas de odores de sangue humano e de cadáve


it may well be said they marked the odour....but that mark or alert has no evidentail value.

they certainly didnt detect any blood...or caaver in 5a they did detect blood but no cadaver in the car.

i would say sceptics misunderstand what the proven facts say due to the poor translation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
The case has moved on.. No evidence against the McCann's according to the present investigation..

Amaral convicted of perjury.. Almeida who wrote the first report guilty of torture in another case... Their colleague Christavao convicted of corruption.. Burglary.. Violence.
But of course in your eyes they are all honourable men


The case has moved on - what to.

The only way this case moves on is in years - still no further on then than when Maddie went missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 05:13:17 PM

The case has moved on - what to.

The only way this case moves on is in years - still no further on then than when Maddie went missing.

It has moved on. The McCann's were prime suspects.... There was talk of them being arrested.
They are now not suspects and we have been told there's no evidence against them.
SY are now working with the Pj. SY have told us they believe Maddie was abducted. The case has moved on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 05:56:00 PM
It has moved on. The McCann's were prime suspects.... There was talk of them being arrested.
They are now not suspects and we have been told there's no evidence against them.
SY are now working with the Pj. SY have told us they believe Maddie was abducted. The case has moved on.

The case has moved on.


Yes from 2007 to 2020 - But what is there after £12 mill + spent ....nothing

One story is good till another one is told - you believe your story D ill believe mine.

IMO whatever the evidence you go on about -  GA was on the right track.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
The case has moved on.


Yes from 2007 to 2020 - But what is there after £12 mill + spent ....nothing

One story is good till another one is told - you believe your story D ill believe mine.

IMO whatever the evidence you go on about -  GA was on the right track.

You might think he was on the right but that's all it is... A thought with no real evidence to support it. Speculation.. Based on ignorance as regards amaral. It can be proven he didn't understand the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 25, 2020, 06:13:00 PM
You might think he was on the right but that's all it is... A thought with no real evidence to support it. Speculation.. Based on ignorance as regards amaral. It can be proven he didn't understand the evidence

But it still can't be proven that Maddie was abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 06:26:01 PM
But it still can't be proven that Maddie was abducted.

i would say on the balance of probabilities...it can be proven she was abducted..
i would say it can be prove beyond reasonable doubt...amaral was wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 06:29:01 PM
i would say on the balance of probabilities...it can be proven she was abducted..
i would say it can be prove beyond reasonable doubt...amaral was wrong

Go on then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 06:33:48 PM
Go on then.

ive done it all before...several times. Im not trying to convince anyone.
But....If the McCanns went on trial now they would be found not guilty...which would prove amaral wrong.....beyond reasoanble doubt........perhaps some would dispute that but they would need to come up with some real evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 25, 2020, 06:41:13 PM
ive done it all before...several times. Im not trying to convince anyone.
But....If the McCanns went on trial now they would be found not guilty...which would prove amaral wrong.....beyond reasoanble doubt........perhaps some would dispute that but they would need to come up with some real evidence.

I'd like to see some real abduction evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 06:49:29 PM
I'd like to see some real abduction evidence.

Madeleine is missing what more do you want.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
i would say on the balance of probabilities...it can be proven she was abducted..
i would say it can be prove beyond reasonable doubt...amaral was wrong

So that's on the balance of probabilities - GA was wrong.

Prove it beyond a reasonable  doubt - you can't do
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 25, 2020, 07:09:39 PM
So that's on the balance of probabilities - GA was wrong.

Prove it beyond a reasonable  doubt - you can't do

if the McCanns were tried now on the available evidence they would be found not guilty ...proven beyond reasoanable doubt. Thers no real evidence against them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 25, 2020, 08:04:04 PM
if the McCanns were tried now on the available evidence they would be found not guilty ...proven beyond reasoanable doubt. Thers no real evidence against them

The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on May 25, 2020, 09:09:05 PM
The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.

Did what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 25, 2020, 09:12:12 PM
The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 25, 2020, 09:16:52 PM
The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.
Prove it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on May 25, 2020, 09:18:50 PM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?

Hello Anthro
I've asked that question many times.
Still waiting for an answer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 09:21:22 PM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?

They're not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on May 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
They're not.

Why do you hold that belief?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 26, 2020, 03:14:31 AM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?

I haven't seen them searching anywhere lately.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 26, 2020, 05:59:41 AM
Why do you hold that belief?
There's a supposed active police investigation in place.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?


But are they - It seems like everyone else to me.

Also, they say Maddie was abducted - so they have to at least say things like we have to keep on looking.

IMO that -  has always been left to everyone else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 26, 2020, 09:19:49 AM

But are they - It seems like everyone else to me.

Also, they say Maddie was abducted - so they have to at least say things like we have to keep on looking.

IMO that -  has always been left to everyone else.

Madeleine's case is the subject of a live police investigation.

Scotland Yard and the Judicial Police are doing all the looking that is necessary.  If they need any assistance during the process I am sure they will ask for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 11:03:21 AM
Madeleine's case is the subject of a live police investigation.

Scotland Yard and the Judicial Police are doing all the looking that is necessary.  If they need any assistance during the process I am sure they will ask for it.


Well, suppose your entitled to your opinion B about what is happening.

I mean for a start this live investigation - will have been stopped dead during the lockdown.

Or is it just simply a paper trail and emails - that is actually looking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 26, 2020, 11:35:19 AM

Well, suppose your entitled to your opinion B about what is happening.

I mean for a start this live investigation - will have been stopped dead during the lockdown.

Or is it just simply a paper trail and emails - that is actually looking.

I don't think anyone can argue that the McCann's are suspects or under investigaion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 26, 2020, 12:29:43 PM

Well, suppose your entitled to your opinion B about what is happening.

I mean for a start this live investigation - will have been stopped dead during the lockdown.

Or is it just simply a paper trail and emails - that is actually looking.

The police investigation is to find out what happened to Maddie and I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 01:24:40 PM
The police investigation is to find out what happened to Maddie and I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.

I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.

so how will itt have carried on - ok only 4 of them so social distancing not a prob

It's like I see said the blind man to his deaf daughter....to me IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 26, 2020, 02:10:30 PM
I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.

so how will itt have carried on - ok only 4 of them so social distancing not a prob

It's like I see said the blind man to his deaf daughter....to me IMO.
I'm involved with a police investigation at the moment and it hasn't stopped stone dead... Still collecting evidence and building a case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 04:01:27 PM
I'm involved with a police investigation at the moment and it hasn't stopped stone dead... Still collecting evidence and building a case


Well I would think it safe to say it is a relatively new investigation - not a 12-year-old one where the goal posts moved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on May 26, 2020, 04:39:59 PM

Well I would think it safe to say it is a relatively new investigation - not a 12-year-old one where the goal posts moved.

The point is you don't know if the investigation has stopped dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 05:40:13 PM
The point is you don't know if the investigation has stopped dead.

The point is you don't know if the investigation  hasn't - stopped dead
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 26, 2020, 05:48:12 PM

The point is that it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 27, 2020, 12:27:04 PM
The point is that it doesn't matter.

How come - I'm sure you don't mean if they are looking for Maddie or not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 27, 2020, 12:30:56 PM
How come - I'm sure you don't mean if they are looking for Maddie or not.

I believe that They already know where Madeleine is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 27, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
I believe that They already know where Madeleine is.

I think you might be right there.

I reckon they've found Joana, Bianca Jones & Shergar as well.

They are keeping them under round the clock surveillance & are just waiting for the right time to rescue them.

Shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 27, 2020, 07:04:06 PM
I think you might be right there.

I reckon they've found Joana, Bianca Jones & Shergar as well.

They are keeping them under round the clock surveillance & are just waiting for the right time to rescue them.

Shouldn't be much longer now.

And won't that be a glorious day.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 28, 2020, 05:58:18 PM
I think you might be right there.

I reckon they've found Joana, Bianca Jones & Shergar as well.

They are keeping them under round the clock surveillance & are just waiting for the right time to rescue them.

Shouldn't be much longer now.

Without doubt.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-living-new-life-22071301

Madeleine McCann 'living new life but feels birth parents' concern for her' says psychic
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 28, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
Without doubt.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-living-new-life-22071301

Madeleine McCann 'living new life but feels birth parents' concern for her' says psychic

Jesus wept, what a load of old horse shit.

Another psychic who can see all this bollocks about how Maddie thinks & feels, but still can't see her home address & telephone number.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 29, 2020, 08:40:23 AM
Jesus wept, what a load of old horse shit.

Another psychic who can see all this bollocks about how Maddie thinks & feels, but still can't see her home address & telephone number.
You set a real high bar for the psychics, but a good point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 29, 2020, 10:23:19 AM
You set a real high bar for the psychics, but a good point.

Not really, Rob.  Madeleine will have distant memories of her own so it isn't actually Rocket Science.  This Psychic is just cashing in on possibilities.

And Spammy is doing what Spammy does.  Not making a lot of sense, as usual.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 29, 2020, 11:21:01 AM
Not really, Rob.  Madeleine will have distant memories of her own so it isn't actually Rocket Science.  This Psychic is just cashing in on possibilities.

And Spammy is doing what Spammy does.  Not making a lot of sense, as usual.

Assuming she's alive.
Which she isn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on May 29, 2020, 12:18:32 PM
Assuming she's alive.
Which she isn't.

Are you Psychic too?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 29, 2020, 11:31:16 PM
Assuming she's alive.
Which she isn't.
What was the phone number and name of the person responsible for her death, since you are psychic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
You don't have to be psychic to know - Maddie is no longer with us IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
You don't have to be psychic to know - Maddie is no longer with us IMO

A more accurate expression of opinion might read as ...

"You don't have to be psychic to know" - there is a possibility Madeleine may NO longer be with us but in the absence of proof there is every possibility that she may be alive and well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2020, 05:02:33 PM
A more accurate expression of opinion might read as ...

"You don't have to be psychic to know" - there is a possibility Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof there is every possibility that she may be alive and well.

OR

Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof, of an abduction - she may not be.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2020, 05:33:35 PM
OR

Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof, of an abduction - she may not be.

Sorry, your post is a bit garbled. 

I wonder why people can't bring themselves to hope for the best outcome for a now missing young woman and her family.

Anyway, this thread isn't actually about Madeleine.  It is about the presently elusive Amaral.  Wonder if he is in lockup lockdown I can't recall him being so reticent or even so reticent for so long.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 06:52:58 PM


There's plenty of evidence that Maddie is dead.

What evidence is there that she's alive? 
(excluding wishful nonsense dreamt up by psychics.)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 08:23:22 PM

There's plenty of evidence that Maddie is dead.

What evidence is there that she's alive? 
(excluding wishful nonsense dreamt up by psychics.)

There is no evidence that Madeleine is alive.
What would be the evidence that you are referring to that Madeleine is dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 08:28:46 PM
There is no evidence that Madeleine is alive.
What would be the evidence that you are referring to that Madeleine is dead?

There is none.  Some very sad people have no hope.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 08:53:05 PM
Has Madeleine’s disappearance been investigated and traced to the initial booking with Mark Warner in England? I have always wondered what the first link in the chain of events would have been.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 08:53:17 PM
There is no evidence that Madeleine is alive.
What would be the evidence that you are referring to that Madeleine is dead?

She hasn't phoned or written home, she hasn't touched her bank account & there have been no confirmed sightings of her in the last 12 years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 08:54:47 PM
There is none.  Some very sad people have no hope.

I still have hope, but last time I expressed it some people got offended, I got a 50% warning & you vowed to delete all my posts in future.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
She hasn't phoned or written home, she hasn't touched her bank account & there have been no confirmed sightings of her in the last 12 years.

So, how does this relate to her being dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
I still have hope, but last time I expressed it some people got offended, I got a 50% warning & you vowed to delete all my posts in future.

Did I?  I don't think so.  Your posts aren't worth deleting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 09:11:36 PM
So, how does this relate to her being dead?

If nobody saw me in more than a decade & I never phoned home or touched my bank account, that would be pretty strong evidence I were dead, don't you think?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 09:13:05 PM
Did I?  I don't think so.  Your posts aren't worth deleting.

You most certainly did. When I said I hoped the McCanns suffered a slow & grizzly demise, remember now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:16:53 PM
So, how does this relate to her being dead?

Spammy isn't all there.  Three year old children don't have Bank Accounts or Credit Cards.  But come what may. Spammy couldn't give a logical answer anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:21:44 PM
You most certainly did. When I said I hoped the McCanns suffered a slow & grizzly demise, remember now?

You have proof that it was me, do you?  Although I might have done if I had even seen it.

But from this moment on you may be sure that I will if you continue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 30, 2020, 09:35:57 PM
You most certainly did. When I said I hoped the McCanns suffered a slow & grizzly demise, remember now?

Also along the lines if you were allowed to remain she'd be off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
If nobody saw me in more than a decade & I never phoned home or touched my bank account, that would be pretty strong evidence I were dead, don't you think?

In what way are you contributing to the discourse here when you are posting this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 09:47:08 PM
Also along the lines if you were allowed to remain she'd be off.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that. Such a shame she isn't a man of her words  8)--)) 8)--))
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:51:24 PM
Also along the lines if you were allowed to remain she'd be off.

You can prove this, can you?  Not my style at all.  But please feel free.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 30, 2020, 10:49:39 PM
If nobody saw me in more than a decade & I never phoned home or touched my bank account, that would be pretty strong evidence I were dead, don't you think?
The guy who was abducted as a three year old in China many years ago and who was recently reunited with his parents never once phoned home or touched his bank account either.  I guess he must have been a ghost when he was finally reunited with his family if such things are now proof of death.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 11:11:28 PM
The guy who was abducted as a three year old in China many years ago and who was recently reunited with his parents never once phoned home or touched his bank account either.  I guess he must have been a ghost when he was finally reunited with his family if such things are now proof of death.

Allow me to educate you.

There's a difference between evidence & proof.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 11:15:59 PM
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that. Such a shame she isn't a man of her words  8)--)) 8)--))

This is getting a bit naughty now because you are accusing me of something that you cannot prove and nor did I do.

But you won't be turning this Forum into the likes of The Bamber Forum.  So please do beware.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:02:37 AM
You can prove this, can you?  Not my style at all.  But please feel free.
You know as well as I do it was all deleted,it's only words after all,the worst thing to happen? a ban,whoopy doo.
This is getting a bit naughty now because you are accusing me of something that you cannot prove and nor did I do.

But you won't be turning this Forum into the likes of The Bamber Forum.  So please do beware.
See above.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2020, 08:19:23 AM
Allow me to educate you.

There's a difference between evidence & proof.

You're welcome.
I know the difference between the two, but as you are 100% certain that Madeleine is dead it’s not an unreasonable assumption to make that you believe her absence of phone calls and bank activity are proof rather than evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2020, 10:38:34 AM
Sorry, your post is a bit garbled. 

I wonder why people can't bring themselves to hope for the best outcome for a now missing young woman and her family.

Anyway, this thread isn't actually about Madeleine.  It is about the presently elusive Amaral.  Wonder if he is in lockup lockdown I can't recall him being so reticent or even so reticent for so long.

Oh  @)(++(* garbled I actually pasted the line from your post.

snip
there is a possibility Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof

I just reversed what you said - that I don't believe Maddie is with us no proof of abduction like GA said

What you don't understand either is I do want the best outcome - and I believe GA would have got it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2020, 12:12:57 PM
Oh  @)(++(* garbled I actually pasted the line from your post.

snip
there is a possibility Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof

I just reversed what you said - that I don't believe Maddie is with us no proof of abduction like GA said

What you don't understand either is I do want the best outcome - and I believe GA would have got it.

By your own admission you did not post what I said and what you did post was garbled.  What I was curious about is what Amaral is getting up to these days.
When was the last time a transcript of one of his unlearned ravings from the ubiquitous (at one time) chat show studios was released ... was itYou may think Amaral was capable of achieving "the best outcome" and "would have got it" but I am afraid it seems to have slipped your mind that the Portuguese authorities didn't share your confidence.
They sacked him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 31, 2020, 01:55:21 PM
I know the difference between the two, but as you are 100% certain that Madeleine is dead it’s not an unreasonable assumption to make that you believe her absence of phone calls and bank activity are proof rather than evidence.

It's a ridiculous assumption to make.

If I thought that, don't you think I might have offered up that as proof on this forum during the past 7 odd years I've been a member? Or maybe it to the police?

I've never once said there is proof Maddie is dead. (even though she definitely is)

It's possible to be 100% certain of something without proof.

Take Scotland Yard for example, they are certain the McCanns didn't do it, & they don't have any proof.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
It's a ridiculous assumption to make.

If I thought that, don't you think I might have offered up that as proof on this forum during the past 7 odd years I've been a member? Or maybe it to the police?

I've never once said there is proof Maddie is dead. (even though she definitely is)

It's possible to be 100% certain of something without proof.

Take Scotland Yard for example, they are certain the McCanns didn't do it, & they don't have any proof.
Can you please explain how you can be 100% certain of something without proof?  I mean, I’m an atheist and I’m pretty certain there is no creator but I could never say I was 100% certain I was right because I’m not an arrogant, know-it-all tw...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 31, 2020, 04:29:21 PM
Can you please explain how you can be 100% certain of something without proof?  I mean, I’m an atheist and I’m pretty certain there is no creator but I could never say I was 100% certain I was right because I’m not an arrogant, know-it-all tw...

There are billions of people in the world who are certain some sort of God exists, & they don't have any proof.
They believe such based on evidence.

I'm 100% certain Maddie is dead & wasn't abducted, based on the evidence. I mean, I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

We'll know if I am when the SY surveillance team finally get round to rescuing Maddie & arresting her abductor........ shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
There are billions of people in the world who are certain some sort of God exists, & they don't have any proof.
They believe such based on evidence.

I'm 100% certain Maddie is dead & wasn't abducted, based on the evidence. I mean, I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

We'll know if I am when the SY surveillance team finally get round to rescuing Maddie & arresting her abductor........ shouldn't be much longer now.
There's a hurry?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2020, 05:33:20 PM
There are billions of people in the world who are certain some sort of God exists, & they don't have any proof.
They believe such based on evidence.

I'm 100% certain Maddie is dead & wasn't abducted, based on the evidence. I mean, I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

We'll know if I am when the SY surveillance team finally get round to rescuing Maddie & arresting her abductor........ shouldn't be much longer now.
I can’t prove her parents had nothing to do with her disappearance either but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.  We’ll know if I am when the Met show up in Rothley with handcuffs and a Black Maria....shouldn’t be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on May 31, 2020, 05:41:27 PM
It's a ridiculous assumption to make.

If I thought that, don't you think I might have offered up that as proof on this forum during the past 7 odd years I've been a member? Or maybe it to the police?

I've never once said there is proof Maddie is dead. (even though she definitely is)

It's possible to be 100% certain of something without proof.

Take Scotland Yard for example, they are certain the McCanns didn't do it, & they don't have any proof.

No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 31, 2020, 05:42:48 PM
No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO

In my opinion she's dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 05:47:09 PM
No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO

SY in 2017 said through an assistant commissioner to the MET,they have no definitive evidence either way,which means they're still searching for the elusive breakthrough,no indication three yr's later to indicate otherwise,must be the last.last lead to establish her being or otherwise.Still I'm sure some one with some experience of police investigation will explain how after digging up wasteland obviously looking for a cadaver or evidence of, it then turns in to a live child investigation.

Amaral is yet to be proved wrong,£million's I say £millions and not a peep as to her being alive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 05:51:55 PM
No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO

Not sure how that works,Suzi Lamplugh was declared dead,where's the evidence of such?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2020, 06:18:37 PM
SY in 2017 said through an assistant commissioner to the MET,they have no definitive evidence either way,which means they're still searching for the elusive breakthrough,no indication three yr's later to indicate otherwise,must be the last.last lead to establish her being or otherwise.Still I'm sure some one with some experience of police investigation will explain how after digging up wasteland obviously looking for a cadaver or evidence of, it then turns in to a live child investigation.

Amaral is yet to be proved wrong,£million's I say £millions and not a peep as to her being alive.

The police report on which the Public Prosecutors based the archiving report found that he was wrong from start to finish.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2020, 06:25:36 PM
SY in 2017 said through an assistant commissioner to the MET,they have no definitive evidence either way,which means they're still searching for the elusive breakthrough,no indication three yr's later to indicate otherwise,must be the last.last lead to establish her being or otherwise.Still I'm sure some one with some experience of police investigation will explain how after digging up wasteland obviously looking for a cadaver or evidence of, it then turns in to a live child investigation.

Amaral is yet to be proved wrong,£million's I say £millions and not a peep as to her being alive.

And what was it they did not find "after digging up wasteland"?  The fact that they did not find either cadaver or evidence of one surely must suggest to you that there was not one there to be found.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2020, 06:59:42 PM
Not sure how that works,Suzi Lamplugh was declared dead,where's the evidence of such?
Have the police said she is certainly dead?  The evidence points to the likelihood, but 100% certitude?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:46:05 PM
Have the police said she is certainly dead?  The evidence points to the likelihood, but 100% certitude?

 Today Suzy is officially declared dead. Her father signed the legal papers necessary for a presumption of death allowed after a person has been missing for seven years. 'It marks a finality,' he said. 'It releases us. It allows us to think of Suzy as dead. We loved her very much, but we need to rebuild our lives.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/suzy-lamplugh-declared-dead-by-her-family-seven-years-ago-today-an-estate-agent-vanished-after-1487612.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:47:08 PM
The police report on which the Public Prosecutors based the archiving report found that he was wrong from start to finish.

Yet to be proved wrong,no sign of her since 3/05/2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:49:42 PM
We'll soon know,home by christmas was a claim.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 31, 2020, 07:52:31 PM
We'll soon know,home by christmas was a claim.

They Hoped to have Madeleine home by Christmas.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 31, 2020, 08:16:34 PM
Today Suzy is officially declared dead. Her father signed the legal papers necessary for a presumption of death allowed after a person has been missing for seven years. 'It marks a finality,' he said. 'It releases us. It allows us to think of Suzy as dead. We loved her very much, but we need to rebuild our lives.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/suzy-lamplugh-declared-dead-by-her-family-seven-years-ago-today-an-estate-agent-vanished-after-1487612.html
So that’s a no then, no certitude.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 01, 2020, 12:43:57 AM
So that’s a no then, no certitude.  Thanks.

I'm 100% certain SY are going to rescue Suzy Lamplugh, Claudia Lawrence & Maddie from the abductor.

Shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 01, 2020, 07:14:38 AM
I'm 100% certain SY are going to rescue Suzy Lamplugh, Claudia Lawrence & Maddie from the abductor.

Shouldn't be much longer now.
And I’m 100% certain you write the first stupid and or offensive thought that comes into your head because you are just a troll.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2020, 08:06:01 AM
Not sure how that works,Suzi Lamplugh was declared dead,where's the evidence of such?

The difference is she was an adult when she disappeared,   so having not got in touch with her family after so long I can understand them believing she is dead.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2020, 08:07:28 AM
Is there a family whose missing person was a child when she/he disappeared that has declared their child must be dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2020, 08:44:41 AM
Is there a family whose missing person was a child when she/he disappeared that has declared their child must be dead?

Usually it's done so the relatives can deal with bank accounts and other matters. That's not really an issue with children; no affairs to clear up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 01, 2020, 11:38:39 AM
By your own admission you did not post what I said and what you did post was garbled.  What I was curious about is what Amaral is getting up to these days.
When was the last time a transcript of one of his unlearned ravings from the ubiquitous (at one time) chat show studios was released ... was it
  • after his terribly embarrassing 'revelation' about the alleged old lady and the alleged cremation?
  • or was it after the revelation of his chum and fellow Madeleine author's depravity courtesy of the Portuguese judicial system became common knowledge?
You may think Amaral was capable of achieving "the best outcome" and "would have got it" but I am afraid it seems to have slipped your mind that the Portuguese authorities didn't share your confidence.
They sacked him.

We will never know what he could have achieved - and for reasons, we don't really know he was moved

Considering he wrote a book on what he believed happened - it may have slipped your mind it's still there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 01, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
Usually it's done so the relatives can deal with bank accounts and other matters. That's not really an issue with children; no affairs to clear up.

Being declared dead by a court is not proof of death.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2020, 12:56:37 PM
Being declared dead by a court is not proof of death.

Hello stranger! Been having fun elsewhere?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 01, 2020, 02:28:17 PM
Hello stranger! Been having fun elsewhere?

I've been having fun everywhere....I love the lockdown
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2020, 02:31:31 PM
We will never know what he could have achieved - and for reasons, we don't really know he was moved

Considering he wrote a book on what he believed happened - it may have slipped your mind it's still there.

Actually ... I believe some could hardly contain themselves waiting for the sequel.  Wonder what happened to that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 01, 2020, 03:00:30 PM
Actually ... I believe some could hardly contain themselves waiting for the sequel.  Wonder what happened to that?

Could be writing it now - are you waiting for it.

Along with him being a reserved man it maybe that's what he is up to at the moment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 03:06:49 PM
Actually ... I believe some could hardly contain themselves waiting for the sequel.  Wonder what happened to that?

I think he might have been warned off.  It is  a few years ago now.  Or he might have got writers block.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 03:09:43 PM
I've been having fun everywhere....I love the lockdown

So do I.  I try to look pained when others have to do my shopping, but it's becoming increasingly difficult.

Log Live Lockdown.  Which is what I intend to do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
I think he might have been warned off.  It is  a few years ago now.  Or he might have got writers block.

Maybe he is looking for his Ace.  It never did turn up, did it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 01, 2020, 04:33:02 PM
Yes there are.

I've posted a list twice but the mods keep deleting it.

Keith Bennett.

Genette Tate.

Cheryl Grimmer.
Didn’t Hindley and Brady confess to involvement in Keith Bennett’s murder?  If so it would not be surprising if his  mother accepted he was dead.  In Genette Tate’s case the parents only expressed their belief she was no longer alive 25 years after she went missing.  Don’t know about the other case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 01, 2020, 04:35:16 PM
Yes there are.

I've posted a list twice but the mods keep deleting it.

Keith Bennett.

Genette Tate.

Cheryl Grimmer.
And you’re completely wrong about the last case

In the 2000s, New South Wales Police Minister Michael Gallagher stated that it is entirely possible that both Cheryl and her kidnapper are dead but expressed hope that someone may know the truth. He also theorised that Cheryl may be alive and free and encouraged anybody who believes they may be her to come forward.[12] One of Cheryl's characteristics that was cited as a possible identifier was a belly button which protruded one centimetre due to a medical condition, which may or may not have been corrected by surgery.[13] In 2008 a woman believed that she might be Cheryl but, after submitting a swab taken from her inside cheek, proved not to be a match to Cheryl's DNA.[16]
In May 2011, a coroner formally ruled that Cheryl had died shortly after going missing due to an undetermined cause and recommended that police reopen the investigation—Carole Grimmer stated that she believed her daughter was still alive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 04:57:12 PM
Maybe he is looking for his Ace.  It never did turn up, did it?

Surely there is more than one Ace in the Pack.  Which Ace was it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2020, 05:43:49 PM
Could be writing it now - are you waiting for it.

Along with him being a reserved man it maybe that's what he is up to at the moment.

How do you know he is a 'reserved' man?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 01, 2020, 10:01:35 PM

Say what you like about Goncarlo Amaral, rubbish cop, drunkard, convicted perjurer.

But at least - in my opinion - we can surmise he hasn't faked his daughters abduction & hidden her body.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 01, 2020, 10:24:21 PM

Say what you like about Goncarlo Amaral, rubbish cop, drunkard, convicted perjurer.

But at least - in my opinion - we can surmise he hasn't faked his daughters abduction & hidden her body.

We can’t be 100% certain he isn’t also a wife beater and adulterer who endangers his children’s lives by driving them around while drunk though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 10:29:07 PM
We can’t be 100% certain he isn’t also a wife beater and adulterer who endangers his children’s lives by driving them around while drunk though.

I thought those accusations from his wife in writing were recorded in The Log at Portimao Police Station.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 01, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
I thought those accusations from his wife in writing were recorded in The Log at Portimao Police Station.
His supporters dispute it, make out it’s a forgery or some such nonsense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 10:57:24 PM
His supporters dispute it, make out it’s a forgery or some such nonsense.

I see.  So The Portimao PJ Logged a Forged Letter from the lovely Sofa.  That was before the Face Lift and Make Over, of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 02, 2020, 06:06:29 AM
I see.  So The Portimao PJ Logged a Forged Letter from the lovely Sofa.  That was before the Face Lift and Make Over, of course.
Miaow,biatch, has Jessy Pinkman would say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2020, 07:20:06 AM
Miaow,biatch, has Jessy Pinkman would say.

Nothing wrong with a face lift.  Everyone should have one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 02, 2020, 08:09:08 AM
Say what you like about Goncarlo Amaral, rubbish cop, drunkard, convicted perjurer.

But at least - in my opinion - we can surmise he hasn't faked his daughters abduction & hidden her body.

As a convicted perjurer in the case of a missing child,  IMO he should never have been investigating another case of a missing child.

He lied again though didn't he?  He said the McCann's had given Madeleine Calpol that made her drowsy  Calpol doesn't cause drowsiness it treats pain.  There is no evidence that Madeleine could hear her father speaking out in the road.  There was not 100% DNA of Madeleine in 5a and as far as I know there is no proof Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.   He claimed Madeleine must have been kept in something such as a freezer [the McCann's didn't have a freezer]  or somewhere  cool [like where?]  Then he says the McCann's moved Madeleine from the place where no one could find her in the hired car and took her somewhere else.   Please,  do you believe all this?  Seriously?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2020, 08:30:38 AM
As a convicted perjurer in the case of a missing child,  IMO he should never have been investigating another case of a missing child.

He lied again though didn't he?  He said the McCann's had given Madeleine Calpol that made her drowsy  Calpol doesn't cause drowsiness it treats pain.  There is no evidence that Madeleine could hear her father speaking out in the road.  There was not 100% DNA of Madeleine in 5a and as far as I know there is no proof Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.   He claimed Madeleine must have been kept in something such as a freezer [the McCann's didn't have a freezer]  or somewhere  cool [like where?]  Then he says the McCann's moved Madeleine from the place where no one could find her in the hired car and took her somewhere else.   Please,  do you believe all this?  Seriously?

There's no need to believe Amaral's speculations any more than there's a need to believe the McCann's speculations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 02, 2020, 09:23:35 AM
Nothing wrong with a face lift.  Everyone should have one.
I'm not sure the Vorderman look would suit me.Face like a smacked ass is more my style.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
I'm not sure the Vorderman look would suit me.Face like a smacked ass is more my style.

How's about Katie Price?  Lots to choose from there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 02, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
There's no need to believe Amaral's speculations any more than there's a need to believe the McCann's speculations.

I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2020, 01:56:16 PM
I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.

What on earth possessed them to put Amaral anywhere near The Case.  Detectives aren't supposed to speculate.  The McCanns can do nothing else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 02, 2020, 03:56:44 PM
There's no need to believe Amaral's speculations any more than there's a need to believe the McCann's speculations.
Apart from believing their daughter was abducted, possibly by paedophile(s), what speculations by the McCanns are you referring to?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 02, 2020, 06:42:44 PM
I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.


Amaral said that the fact that McCanns would be considered as "charged" created a turning point in the investigation between the Portuguese and English police. "There was a spoken understanding between two policemen to continue the line of investigation seriously, facing the possibility that her death had occurred in the apartament but, suddenly, the English changed course without any coherent technical explanation. It was always strange how the couple were treated, even after they were considered suspects, and the police information to which they occasionally had access."

That's what happened - I wonder why the sudden change without a reason why
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 02, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.
and all that business about the MI5 interfering with the investigation!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 02, 2020, 08:41:37 PM

Amaral said that the fact that McCanns would be considered as "charged" created a turning point in the investigation between the Portuguese and English police. "There was a spoken understanding between two policemen to continue the line of investigation seriously, facing the possibility that her death had occurred in the apartament but, suddenly, the English changed course without any coherent technical explanation. It was always strange how the couple were treated, even after they were considered suspects, and the police information to which they occasionally had access."

That's what happened - I wonder why the sudden change without a reason why

It is clear that the fact is that the English understood the forensic evidence and Amaral in his incompetence did not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 03, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
It is clear that the fact is that the English understood the forensic evidence and Amaral in his incompetence did not.

And that, kizzy, is probably why there was a sudden splitting of the ways between Amaral and the British police..

The dogs reactions proved nothing.  NOWT … Amaral did not understand that there was no proof of any guilt on the Mccanns part, but kept on pushing the dogs reactions as proof.

The British did understand that there was nothing pointing to Madeleines death in the apartment and almost certainly did not want to be part of a major injustice.   Maybe at a similar time, they heard about Amaral himself being convicted for lying in Court (perjury) and learned about the wicked torture of Leonor Cipriano?   


Also maybe they learned about the injustices against Michael Cook, as recorded in our own Parliaments Hansard.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1992-06-09/Debate-20.html

Two very dicey Court cases over there in PT, both with two little girls vanishing and both with extreme torture to the accused.  Michael Cook never caved in, brave man. 

Leonor, was also subjected to extreme torture, but it took IIRC 24 hours before she caved in.  Please correct me if I have that torture period incorrect.   The minute the PJ left her at the prison again, she immediately told the prison Governor that she had not fallen down stairs as claimed, but had been brutally tortured to obtain a confession.  Amaral was in charge of this.


I wonder that the British police stuck with Amaral for so long


Neither Michael nor Leonor had any pointers to their being involved and both were vulnerable.   
I wonder, was Amaral on the Michael Cook case?

Who knows, but maybe the British police decided with nothing against The Mccanns and this obvious massive misunderstanding on Amarals part, that it was time to withdraw from the Amaral/British police relationship ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 08:15:57 AM
and all that business about the MI5 interfering with the investigation!

Smoke and Mirrors.  Impossible to prove or disprove.  And designed to make Amaral look like David against Goliath.  But without the original end result.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 02:45:29 PM
It is clear that the fact is that the English understood the forensic evidence and Amaral in his incompetence did not.

Well why has that neer been publicly said - why was the book allowed to stand

Why was that not part of the mccs defense - that he didn't understand the evidence?

The book wrote on his belief in the investigation - and is still there to read.

So it is not as clear as you try to make out - the book obviously can't be disputed. [any of it]

The only ones who have tried that is the mccs. - not SY or anyone else
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 02:50:52 PM
And that, kizzy, is probably why there was a sudden splitting of the ways between Amaral and the British police..

The dogs reactions proved nothing.  NOWT … Amaral did not understand that there was no proof of any guilt on the Mccanns part, but kept on pushing the dogs reactions as proof.

The British did understand that there was nothing pointing to Madeleines death in the apartment and almost certainly did not want to be part of a major injustice.   Maybe at a similar time, they heard about Amaral himself being convicted for lying in Court (perjury) and learned about the wicked torture of Leonor Cipriano?   


Also maybe they learned about the injustices against Michael Cook, as recorded in our own Parliaments Hansard.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1992-06-09/Debate-20.html

Two very dicey Court cases over there in PT, both with two little girls vanishing and both with extreme torture to the accused.  Michael Cook never caved in, brave man. 

Leonor, was also subjected to extreme torture, but it took IIRC 24 hours before she caved in.  Please correct me if I have that torture period incorrect.   The minute the PJ left her at the prison again, she immediately told the prison Governor that she had not fallen down stairs as claimed, but had been brutally tortured to obtain a confession.  Amaral was in charge of this.


I wonder that the British police stuck with Amaral for so long


Neither Michael nor Leonor had any pointers to their being involved and both were vulnerable.   
I wonder, was Amaral on the Michael Cook case?

Who knows, but maybe the British police decided with nothing against The Mccanns and this obvious massive misunderstanding on Amarals part, that it was time to withdraw from the Amaral/British police relationship ?

Again Sadie - if Ameral got it so wrong why has British police never done anything about The Truth Of The Lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 03:48:29 PM
Well why has that neer been publicly said - why was the book allowed to stand

Why was that not part of the mccs defense - that he didn't understand the evidence?

The book wrote on his belief in the investigation - and is still there to read.

So it is not as clear as you try to make out - the book obviously can't be disputed. [any of it]

The only ones who have tried that is the mccs. - not SY or anyone else
The book was allowed to stand because Gonc's right to write any old shite was perceived by the PT court to be greater than the McCanns' right not to be publicly accused of hiding their child's body.    The McCanns weren't on trial so why do you ask about their defence?  They were defending nothing, Amaral was the defendant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 03:49:44 PM
Again Sadie - if Ameral got it so wrong why has British police never done anything about The Truth Of The Lie.
What on earth could the British police do about some PT ex-cop's book even if they'd wanted to??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:00:29 PM
The book was allowed to stand because Gonc's right to write any old shite was perceived by the PT court to be greater than the McCanns' right not to be publicly accused of hiding their child's body.    The McCanns weren't on trial so why do you ask about their defence?  They were defending nothing, Amaral was the defendant.

Oi, watch your language - what he put is what he the cop on the case believed had happened. [no abduction]

The mccs tried to have the book banned - they failed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
What on earth could the British police do about some PT ex-cop's book even if they'd wanted to??

Exactly - the British police could do nothing about what was said about them because...... it was true.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 04:22:31 PM
Exactly - the British police could do nothing about what was said about them because...... it was true.
@)(++(*  Which part was true? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 04:24:47 PM
Oi, watch your language - what he put is what he the cop on the case believed had happened. [no abduction]

The mccs tried to have the book banned - they failed.
Yes I'm not disputing any of that but you asked why the book was allowed to stand and I just explained it to you.  I also explained that the McCanns were not the defendants as you seemed unaware of this.  Happy to help as always.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:51:47 PM
Yes I'm not disputing any of that but you asked why the book was allowed to stand and I just explained it to you.  I also explained that the McCanns were not the defendants as you seemed unaware of this.  Happy to help as always.

Well, let's say why didn't the mccs put as one of the reasons wanting it banned -

Is because GA didn't understand the evidence and it wasn't true - they didn't.

Thanks for your help though VS  %56&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:52:33 PM
@)(++(*  Which part was true?


Try reading chapter 6 - The arrival of the English police. and a few more chapters mentioning them,



snip
On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, had been, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

snip


As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 04:54:04 PM

Try reading chapter 6 - The arrival of the English police. and a few more chapters mentioning them,



snip
On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, had been, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

snip


As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.
And all this can be independently verified as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, by whom exactly?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2020, 05:17:19 PM
Well why has that neer been publicly said - why was the book allowed to stand

Why was that not part of the mccs defense - that he didn't understand the evidence?

The book wrote on his belief in the investigation - and is still there to read.

So it is not as clear as you try to make out - the book obviously can't be disputed. [any of it]

The only ones who have tried that is the mccs. - not SY or anyone else

Interesting you should say so and interesting how after so many years you are still getting it so wrong.

Just how wrong is illustrated by the work being carried out on Madeleine McCann's disappearance since her case became very, very active in 2013 and remains so today ... and all started by the untiring efforts of Madeleine's parents to get something done on her behalf.

Amaral was sacked and later retired allegedly to write his self serving book about a case he handled incompetently from start to his finish.
Cristovao wrote a highly informative book about a police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance which he should have known nothing about at the time of writing.

Both these commentators on Madeleine McCann's very lucrative case for them are publicly silent just now ... in Cristovao's case the reason is probably obvious ... I wonder why Amaral is so quiet though.  Any ideas on that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
And all this can be independently verified as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, by whom exactly?

Come on VS ... it is after all a book about lies according to the title ... and who better to write a book full of lies than the author the Portuguese law courts awarded a conviction to for telling them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Again Sadie - if Ameral got it so wrong why has British police never done anything about The Truth Of The Lie.

Because it was The truth of the lie and never anything to prove otherwise.  Amaral had no proof.  Ever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 03, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
BBC BREAKING NEWS

A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Police believe he was in the area where the three-year-old was last seen in May 2007.
They are appealing for information about the van and the suspect's other vehicle, a Jaguar.
The man transferred it to someone else's name the day after she vanished.
"Someone out there knows a lot more than they're letting on,"said DCI Mark Cranwell, who's leading the Met inquiry.
The force said it remained a "missing persons" investigation because it doesn't have "definitive evidence" as to whether Madeleine is alive or not.
However, German investigators at the Federal Criminal Police Office, the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA), have classed it as a "murder inquiry".
■   More funds pledged for Madeleine McCann search
■   McCanns mark 10 years without Madeleine
■   Madeleine McCann: Timeline and search maps
Scotland Yard said the German authorities had taken the lead on this aspect of the case because the German suspect was in custody in their country.
Detectives said he was in jail for an "unrelated matter" and had "previous convictions", but they declined to supply more details.
'Critical' information
An appeal on German television was broadcast this evening at 19:15 BST.
DCI Cranwell said the prisoner, then aged 30, frequented the Algarve between 1995 and 2007, staying for "days upon end" in his camper van and living a "transient lifestyle".
He was in the Praia de Luz area where the McCann family was staying when she disappeared and received a phone call at 7.32pm, which ended at 8.02pm.
Police have released details of the suspect's phone number and the number he dialled saying any information about them could be "critical" to the inquiry.
They also want the person who called the suspect to come forward.
"They're a key witness and we urge them to get in touch," said DCI Cranwell.
"Some people will know the man we're describing today... you may be aware of some of the things he's done," he said.
"He may have confided in you about the disappearance of Madeleine.
"More than 13 years have passed and your loyalties may have changed," he added.
"Now is the time to come forward."
Police said the suspect was one of 600 people that detectives on the inquiry, known as Operation Grange, originally looked at, though he had not been a suspect.
After an appeal in 2017, "significant" fresh information about him was provided.
Since then, Met detectives have carried out "extensive inquiries" in Portugal and Germany in order to gather more details about him.
Scotland Yard said they were trying to "prove or disprove" his involvement in the case and retained an "open mind".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 04, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
It appears that Amaral retained some inside connection with the case as he referred to this suspect a year ago when he spoke to Mark Saunokonoko;

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 04, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
It appears that Amaral retained some inside connection with the case as he referred to this suspect a year ago when he spoke to Mark Saunokonoko;

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357

it would be rather odd if he hadnt....i wouldnt trust amaral's opinion on whether the suspect is a scapegoat. he is just  a little biased
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 01:41:09 PM
it would be rather odd if he hadnt....i wouldnt trust amaral's opinion on whether the suspect is a scapegoat. he is just  a little biased

Well as yet they have no evidence against him so at the mo I would say that is what he is a scapegoat.


Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie. He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.
"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 04, 2020, 01:43:02 PM
Enter Christian Brueckner

(https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PRI_153607665.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C647&ssl=1)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1268516789438353408/h6gQNvqo?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 04, 2020, 02:28:09 PM
Well as yet they have no evidence against him so at the mo I would say that is what he is a scapegoat.


Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie. He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.
"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

they have said they do have evidence...I will wait till i hear it before coming to any conclusion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 02:39:39 PM
they have said they do have evidence...I will wait till i hear it before coming to any conclusion

Well as said previously circumstantial - that was the case at 1 o'clock.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 04, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
Well as said previously circumstantial - that was the case at 1 o'clock.

Who said circumstantial... Are you making things up
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
Who said circumstantial... Are you making things up

Forgot if you don't like something you call posters liers - I'm only repeating sky news so are they making it up

But it shows that after three years, though they have a good deal of circumstantial evidence against the suspect, they are struggling to find hard evidence.


https://news.sky.com/story/christian-b-what-we-know-about-jailed-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12000267
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 04, 2020, 03:07:19 PM
Forgot if you don't like something you call posters liers - I'm only repeating sky news so are they making it up

But it shows that after three years, though they have a good deal of circumstantial evidence against the suspect, they are struggling to find hard evidence.


https://news.sky.com/story/christian-b-what-we-know-about-jailed-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12000267

We don't know what the German police have
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
it would be rather odd if he hadnt....i wouldnt trust amaral's opinion on whether the suspect is a scapegoat. he is just  a little biased
Quite.  Imagine if they have evidence on this guy, it goes to court and he is found guilty, a suspect that the PT police ruled out 12 years ago.  It won’t  exactly enhance the reputation of the PT Plod.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
We don't know what the German police have

well you can read - no hard evidence circumstantial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 03:53:48 PM
well you can read - no hard evidence circumstantial
Are you  pleased that there is no hard evidence, or do you hope that the recent appeal provides the police with enough evidence to press charges? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 03:58:12 PM
Are you  pleased that there is no hard evidence, or do you hope that the recent appeal provides the police with enough evidence to press charges?

Are you pleased they may have a scapegoat. - to prove you right.

Not interested in what really happened. - another one judge and jury.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 04:00:15 PM
Are you pleased they may have a scapegoat. - to prove you right.

Not interested in what really happened. - another one judge and jury.
"Scapegoat" appears to be the word of the moment.  On what basis have you, the judge and jury, decided that this violent rapist and paedophile is the victim in this case?
Are you saying you're not really interested in what happened?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2020, 04:07:00 PM
Are you  pleased that there is no hard evidence, or do you hope that the recent appeal provides the police with enough evidence to press charges?

I've previously said I would be delighted with a conviction, but I don't think it will happen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 04, 2020, 04:12:59 PM
Are you pleased they may have a scapegoat. - to prove you right.

Not interested in what really happened. - another one judge and jury.

you are so misguided. i'm interested to find out what really happened and that's why I want to see the evidence.
Over in sceptic lal la land...jill havern has actually suggested the trial of the german could be  a ploy to get the McCanns in the witness box to cross examine them and check out their story...the voice of a leading sceptic
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
you are so misguided. i'm interested to find out what really happened and that's why I want to see the evidence.
Over in sceptic lal la land...jill havern has actually suggested the trial of the german could be  a ploy to get the McCanns in the witness box to cross examine them and check out their story...the voice of a leading sceptic
Haha, I shouldn't laugh but really....how's Tony Bennett taking the news?  Assuming he's still alive that is...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 04:18:39 PM
"Scapegoat" appears to be the word of the moment.  On what basis have you, the judge and jury, decided that this violent rapist and paedophile is the victim in this case?
Are you saying you're not really interested in what happened?

Did I say victim ....no

Did I say I wasn't interested..... no
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 04:23:25 PM
Was this guy eliminated or not from Amaral's investigation?

If so, on what grounds?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2020, 04:35:16 PM
Was this guy eliminated or not from Amaral's investigation?

If so, on what grounds?

Amaral was only involved for a few months. Did he come to any conclusion over this guy, or was it maybe unfinished business for him ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 04:54:37 PM
Amaral was only involved for a few months. Did he come to any conclusion over this guy, or was it maybe unfinished business for him ?

If he had thoroughly investigated this guy, I can't find anything in the files, aside from Misty's potential find, undated, and the original of that was in Spanish, apparently from M3.

If it was unfinished business, perhaps he could have been less categorical about his "conclusion"?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 04, 2020, 04:58:49 PM
you are so misguided. i'm interested to find out what really happened and that's why I want to see the evidence.
Over in sceptic lal la land...jill havern has actually suggested the trial of the german could be  a ploy to get the McCanns in the witness box to cross examine them and check out their story...the voice of a leading sceptic

Well b....r me sideways, the name Jill Havern rings a vague bell...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 04:59:54 PM
Did I say victim ....no

Did I say I wasn't interested..... no
If you’re claiming he’s a scapegoat then clearly you believe he is in the process of becoming a victim of a miscarriage of justice, no?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Well b....r me sideways, the name Jill Havern rings a vague bell...
Ey up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 04, 2020, 05:02:51 PM
Amaral was only involved for a few months. Did he come to any conclusion over this guy, or was it maybe unfinished business for him ?

The significance of the fact that this guy was a one man crime wave in Portugal for many years apparently with impunity calls into question just exactly the senior officers of the Judicial Police were doing while he was on the rampage.

The same senior officers who had plenty to say over the period of time they were in charge of Madeleine's case and couldn't restrain themselves from trying to put Madeleine's parents in the frame from then to the present day.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 05:27:34 PM
I'm still intrigued by Amaral apparently claiming that this guy would be the "scapegoat".

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09

Did he investigate him at the time or not?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2020, 05:33:26 PM
I'm still intrigued by Amaral apparently claiming that this guy would be the "scapegoat".

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09

Did he investigate him at the time or not?

No idea. All I've seen is that he was eliminated by PJ at some point
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 05:56:28 PM
No idea. All I've seen is that he was eliminated by PJ at some point

I certainly haven't seen anything in the files to that effect. The only caveat being that something may be lurking in the non-accessible paedo ones, but I can't think of even an oblique reference to someone of his profile having been excluded.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 06:28:58 PM
I'm still intrigued by Amaral apparently claiming that this guy would be the "scapegoat".

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09

Did he investigate him at the time or not?
Why was this “scapegoat” never picked up by the PT cops for a brutal torture and rape of a woman in PdL?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 07:15:20 PM
Why was this “scapegoat” never picked up by the PT cops for a brutal torture and rape of a woman in PdL?

Back then, there were laws against crime reporting until someone had been charged or was facing trial.

Not sure where exactly she lived - might have been under the Faro jurisdiction?

There was no mention of the assaults on children at the time, either.

There is also that strange story about an Australian woman who lived alone and died of a head wound...

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 07:22:44 PM
Back then, there were laws against crime reporting until someone had been charged or was facing trial.

Not sure where exactly she lived - might have been under the Faro jurisdiction?

There was no mention of the assaults on children at the time, either.

There is also that strange story about an Australian woman who lived alone and died of a head wound...
I find this all really quite shocking.  There’s a violent rapist at large and the public are not allowed to know about it?  Craziness.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 07:42:19 PM
Yep, judicial secrecy laws at the time. IMO, more juicy than judicious for tabloids.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 04, 2020, 07:52:46 PM
Yep, judicial secrecy laws at the time. IMO, more juicy than judicious for tabloids.
Mental.  In effect if criminals are never found and charged then the crime never happened as far as the public at large are concerned? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 08:04:01 PM
Mental.  In effect if criminals are never found and charged then the crime hever happened as far as the public at large are concerned?

The law has since changed - judicial secrecy is now the exception (unless the laws have changed yet again).

One well-known journalist said something ages ago to the effect that judicial secrecy was like traffic regulations: everyone was aware of them, but no one took any notice.

The lack of official information is what largely led to unofficial (and often dubious) leaks floating out of PJ windows.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 04, 2020, 08:21:00 PM
A convenient device.  Could be strictly enforced to limit the flow of inconvenient information.  But observed in the breech when it suited the police, with no sanction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 09:20:50 PM
A convenient device.  Could be strictly enforced to limit the flow of inconvenient information.  But observed in the breech when it suited the police, with no sanction.

Hi JP,

Yep. Until the final straw when Amaral got unceremoniously booted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 12:14:57 AM
The law has since changed - judicial secrecy is now the exception (unless the laws have changed yet again).

One well-known journalist said something ages ago to the effect that judicial secrecy was like traffic regulations: everyone was aware of them, but no one took any notice.

The lack of official information is what largely led to unofficial (and often dubious) leaks floating out of PJ windows.

And ‘sources’ connected to the parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 12:17:15 AM
Hi JP,

Yep. Until the final straw when Amaral got unceremoniously booted.

And the ‘why didn’t you come when I was crying’ leak on Rebelo’s watch ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 01:58:49 AM
And the ‘why didn’t you come when I was crying’ leak on Rebelo’s watch ?

And while Leonor Cipriano was being beaten to a pulp and her missing daughter Joanna was having books written about her to line the pockets of 'top cop' Cristovao;  while tourist children were being assaulted in their beds by a predator;  while Amaral was leaking pejorative tales to journalists and taking notes for his book on a missing child ... the likes of Christian Brueckner had set up their own crime waves in which burglary played a big part.

It seems the Portuguese police were too entrenched in the things which were of paramount importance to them such as the leaking of witness statements such as you have detailed in your post or making a big issue of 'THE PACT of SILENCE' from people bound by Portuguese law to silence ... to notice the real criminality going on right under their noses.
Incompetence or what but most certainly a disgrace and the Christian Brueckner investigation hasn't half highlighted it and the world is no doubt taking note of the sort of shambles Amaral and some of his colleagues were presiding over in the Algarve region.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 05, 2020, 08:44:36 AM
And the ‘why didn’t you come when I was crying’ leak on Rebelo’s watch ?

Yes, that was one of the very few under Rebelo, from memory. Conveniently leaked while he was in the UK for the interviews and the McCanns were in Brussels to promote a missing child alert system.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2020, 11:02:38 AM
Yes, that was one of the very few under Rebelo, from memory. Conveniently leaked while he was in the UK for the interviews and the McCanns were in Brussels to promote a missing child alert system.

The one which the PJ took the unusual step of issuing a denial, and the details of which bore no relationship to the statements which the journalist claimed he had in his possesion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 11:18:27 AM
Yes, that was one of the very few under Rebelo, from memory. Conveniently leaked while he was in the UK for the interviews and the McCanns were in Brussels to promote a missing child alert system.

But nothing to do with Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 11:23:09 AM
And while Leonor Cipriano was being beaten to a pulp and her missing daughter Joanna was having books written about her to line the pockets of 'top cop' Cristovao;  while tourist children were being assaulted in their beds by a predator;  while Amaral was leaking pejorative tales to journalists and taking notes for his book on a missing child ... the likes of Christian Brueckner had set up their own crime waves in which burglary played a big part.

It seems the Portuguese police were too entrenched in the things which were of paramount importance to them such as the leaking of witness statements such as you have detailed in your post or making a big issue of 'THE PACT of SILENCE' from people bound by Portuguese law to silence ... to notice the real criminality going on right under their noses.
Incompetence or what but most certainly a disgrace and the Christian Brueckner investigation hasn't half highlighted it and the world is no doubt taking note of the sort of shambles Amaral and some of his colleagues were presiding over in the Algarve region.

The world is battling one of the worst viruses in history, do you really think they give a fig about any of the above ?

Of course people want to know what happened to Madeleine but that’s where their interest ends.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 05, 2020, 12:27:32 PM
The world is battling one of the worst viruses in history, do you really think they give a fig about any of the above ?

Of course people want to know what happened to Madeleine but that’s where their interest ends.
The  papers seem to think it's important to highlight the failings of the Portuguese and I think people will be and are interested
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 12:45:06 PM
The  papers seem to think it's important to highlight the failings of the Portuguese and I think people will be and are interested

The papers have to fill column inches.

People are much more concerned at this time with the failings of American law enforcement than the Portuguese. To most it’s just ancient history and a subject that didn’t really interest them in the first place.

The unpalatable truth for those who support the parents is no matter what the outcome of this case or who is charged, the public in general will always apportion some blame to the parents as they made any crime possible. Whether that blame is appropriate is an argument that will, I’m sure, rumble on for many years yet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 05, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
The papers have to fill column inches.

People are much more concerned at this time with the failings of American law enforcement than the Portuguese. To most it’s just ancient history and a subject that didn’t really interest them in the first place.

The unpalatable truth for those who support the parents is no matter what the outcome of this case or who is charged, the public in general will always apportion some blame to the parents as they made any crime possible. Whether that blame is appropriate is an argument that will, I’m sure, rumble on for many years yet.

It's not an unpalatable truth to a certain extent its a reality. People make mistakes all the time and become victims of crime
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 12:52:53 PM
The world is battling one of the worst viruses in history, do you really think they give a fig about any of the above ?

Of course people want to know what happened to Madeleine but that’s where their interest ends.

I can see why you might be a bit miffed that every criticism voiced about Amaral's conduct of Madeleine's case has come to fruition and then some.

Whether or not Brueckner  ever proves to be Madeleine's abductor the published facts about him prove two things to me.  (i) he should have been on Portuguese police radar at some time during his twelve year's residency as a criminal in the Algarve and (ii) he was a burglar; he was a rapist on Portuguese soil; he was in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.  In fact he was all the things and more that Amaral said could not have happened and the time he spent persecuting Madeleine's parents it is now shown could and should have been spent looking for Brueckner or someone else with a similar profile with the opportunity and the means to make a child vanish as though she had never been.

I think you may always have had a niggling doubt though ... I always wondered why you never contributed to the private Amaral thread ... seems you may have recognised something way back then and you were not alone as it was one of the shortest threads in history.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 12:56:12 PM
The papers have to fill column inches.

People are much more concerned at this time with the failings of American law enforcement than the Portuguese. To most it’s just ancient history and a subject that didn’t really interest them in the first place.

The unpalatable truth for those who support the parents is no matter what the outcome of this case or who is charged, the public in general will always apportion some blame to the parents as they made any crime possible. Whether that blame is appropriate is an argument that will, I’m sure, rumble on for many years yet.

I'm sure it will.  I am sure it will.  It will have even less credibility in the future than it does at the moment.  But good luck with it anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
I can see why you might be a bit miffed that every criticism voiced about Amaral's conduct of Madeleine's case has come to fruition and then some.

Whether or not Brueckner  ever proves to be Madeleine's abductor the published facts about him prove two things to me.  (i) he should have been on Portuguese police radar at some time during his twelve year's residency as a criminal in the Algarve and (ii) he was a burglar; he was a rapist on Portuguese soil; he was in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.  In fact he was all the things and more that Amaral said could not have happened and the time he spent persecuting Madeleine's parents it is now shown could and should have been spent looking for Brueckner or someone else with a similar profile with the opportunity and the means to make a child vanish as though she had never been.

I think you may always have had a niggling doubt though ... I always wondered why you never contributed to the private Amaral thread ... seems you may have recognised something way back then and you were not alone as it was one of the shortest threads in history.

It would appear that Brueckner committed crimes in almost every part of Europe but remained, by and large, free. He appears to have been investigated for the disappearance of another young girl in Germany but was released. Are the Germans incompetent too. Further OG have had at least three years to investigate him but so far have absolutely nothing but circumstantial evidence against him...are they incompetent ? Rebelo lead the investigation for 10 months yet Brueckner’s name wasn’t mentioned, as far as we know, on his watch.

You really need to let this Amaral obsession go, you really do. Amaral made mistakes...no one is denying that, but as I have pointed out before, if guilty, those mistakes were just as likely to help the parents as hinder them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 05, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
What would you sooner read the never ending doom and gloom of covid,you must wear a mask on public transport or a live police investigation that in the past OG wouldn't comment on.
I beleive the fact that they have commented is significant
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 05, 2020, 04:19:02 PM
If the hundreds of comments in the Times today are anything to go by (the majority overwhelmingly supportive and sympathetic to the McCanns btw) there is still huge public imterest in this story.  The Media does not put stories on their front pages that they think will bore and repel their readers, the BBC does not go to the effort of sending breaking news message alerts about news stories that no one gives a toss about.  It seems odd to me that someone who has devoted 13 years of their life to following this case in great detail should then claim that it is boring and no body cares about it anymore.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 08:36:39 PM
It would appear that Brueckner committed crimes in almost every part of Europe but remained, by and large, free. He appears to have been investigated for the disappearance of another young girl in Germany but was released. Are the Germans incompetent too. Further OG have had at least three years to investigate him but so far have absolutely nothing but circumstantial evidence against him...are they incompetent ? Rebelo lead the investigation for 10 months yet Brueckner’s name wasn’t mentioned, as far as we know, on his watch.

You really need to let this Amaral obsession go, you really do. Amaral made mistakes...no one is denying that, but as I have pointed out before, if guilty, those mistakes were just as likely to help the parents as hinder them.

Brueckner was in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine was abducted.  He was a burglar and a sexual predator who entered premises via windows.

You have no option but to admit that Amaral made mistakes, the whole world knows that now.  But he went out of his way to compound those mistakes by making his living by exploiting Madeleine's name and persecuting her parents. 

One of his greatest mistakes was in rubbishing Kate McCann's eye witness account of the open window.  With every sceptic in the world joining in.

He rubbished Jane Tanner's eye witness account ... and every sceptic in the world joined in that too.

He concentrated his efforts based not on evidence (unless you agree Calpol is evidence) but based solely on his prejudices against Madeleine's parents to the exclusion of all else ~ particularly burglars.

I agree with you ... Amaral made mistakes - mega mistakes - and he made them at a time of most importance for Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 05, 2020, 10:17:10 PM
Entered through that window without leaving evidence? Yeah of course he did and let's discard evidence because we don't like him *%87  It's time to carry out new DNA tests and reveal the results. They have a reason to do it now!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 12:10:51 AM
Brueckner was in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine was abducted.  He was a burglar and a sexual predator who entered premises via windows.

You have no option but to admit that Amaral made mistakes, the whole world knows that now.  But he went out of his way to compound those mistakes by making his living by exploiting Madeleine's name and persecuting her parents. 

One of his greatest mistakes was in rubbishing Kate McCann's eye witness account of the open window.  With every sceptic in the world joining in.

He rubbished Jane Tanner's eye witness account ... and every sceptic in the world joined in that too.

He concentrated his efforts based not on evidence (unless you agree Calpol is evidence) but based solely on his prejudices against Madeleine's parents to the exclusion of all else ~ particularly burglars.

I agree with you ... Amaral made mistakes - mega mistakes - and he made them at a time of most importance for Madeleine McCann.

Amaral was coordinator of the case for 5 months...that was over 12 years ago. Not one investigator in those 12 years, whether private or publicly funded, have discovered one tangible piece of evidence which has lead to the charging of a suspect....not one. OG were passed Brueckner’s name by the PJ in 2012 and his name has come up periodically after appeals since yet to this day neither OG or the German authorities have been able to find anything but circumstantial evidence against him. 8 years and they still haven’t been able to nail him. Now if he really is Madeleine’s kidnapper that fact alone reeks of incompetence. A not so clever sexual predator who boasted about his horrific abuse, kept the vehicle he may have used for months, if not years, after the alleged abduction and was easily caught for other offences and still no charge. Amaral appears the consummate professional in comparison.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 06, 2020, 10:03:16 AM
Amaral was coordinator of the case for 5 months...that was over 12 years ago. Not one investigator in those 12 years, whether private or publicly funded, have discovered one tangible piece of evidence which has lead to the charging of a suspect....not one. OG were passed Brueckner’s name by the PJ in 2012 and his name has come up periodically after appeals since yet to this day neither OG or the German authorities have been able to find anything but circumstantial evidence against him. 8 years and they still haven’t been able to nail him. Now if he really is Madeleine’s kidnapper that fact alone reeks of incompetence. A not so clever sexual predator who boasted about his horrific abuse, kept the vehicle he may have used for months, if not years, after the alleged abduction and was easily caught for other offences and still no charge. Amaral appears the consummate professional in comparison.

The two sisters who said they saw two men with blonde hair on the balcony of an empty apartment,  said the PJ didn't listen to them at all.

Did the PJ search the camper van belonging to this man?  Did they search his house?

They didn't even do house to house enquiries.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 10:34:27 AM
The two sisters who said they saw two men with blonde hair on the balcony of an empty apartment,  said the PJ didn't listen to them at all.

Did the PJ search the camper van belonging to this man?  Did they search his house?

They didn't even do house to house enquiries.

Old, tabloid gossip....move on Lace.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 10:36:37 AM
Anyone keen to shift the blame away from Amaral and the PT team in the first months of the investigation ison a hiding to nothing IMO.  Imagine if this creep had chosen to keep Madeleine alive for a few days as is claimed he wanted to do (have a young plaything) then there might have been a chance of recovering her alive if the police had targeted known paedophiles and sex offenders first and investigated them thoroughly, not half-heartrdly as appears to have been the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 10:45:17 AM

As far as I know The PJ remain in charge of The Investigation.  Have they ever actually done anything, even after the demise of Goncalo Amaral?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 11:20:14 AM
Amaral was coordinator of the case for 5 months...that was over 12 years ago. Not one investigator in those 12 years, whether private or publicly funded, have discovered one tangible piece of evidence which has lead to the charging of a suspect....not one. OG were passed Brueckner’s name by the PJ in 2012 and his name has come up periodically after appeals since yet to this day neither OG or the German authorities have been able to find anything but circumstantial evidence against him. 8 years and they still haven’t been able to nail him. Now if he really is Madeleine’s kidnapper that fact alone reeks of incompetence. A not so clever sexual predator who boasted about his horrific abuse, kept the vehicle he may have used for months, if not years, after the alleged abduction and was easily caught for other offences and still no charge. Amaral appears the consummate professional in comparison.

It has been succinctly pointed out that this is a Portuguese investigation which operated (or sometimes wasn't allowed to) according to Portuguese rules.
The backlash against the Scotland Yard investigations was enormous when Scotland Yard were having to fight on all fronts against concerted efforts to stop them in their tracks.

On this forum amongst many, many others too numerous to count, there was the spirited defence of the burglars Scotland Yard were given leave to question after months of negotiation to enable them to do so.  They were given one bite at the cherry and were not allowed by the the Portuguese to take their questions to the next stage.

On this forum amongst many, there was the absolute ridiculing of the Scotland Yard initiative to dig for evidence in Luz and a few surrounding areas ... one a spit in the wind in close proximity to where Christian Brueckner, had lived.

If within days of Madelene's disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions about a person now alleged to be Christian Brueckner, I think Goncalo Amaral ~ the man in charge ~ has a lot of very serious questions to answer.  Not least of which should be why his decision to ignore local offenders fitting a profile to directing a vendetta against Madeleine's parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 12:05:32 PM
It has been succinctly pointed out that this is a Portuguese investigation which operated (or sometimes wasn't allowed to) according to Portuguese rules.
The backlash against the Scotland Yard investigations was enormous when Scotland Yard were having to fight on all fronts against concerted efforts to stop them in their tracks.

On this forum amongst many, many others too numerous to count, there was the spirited defence of the burglars Scotland Yard were given leave to question after months of negotiation to enable them to do so.  They were given one bite at the cherry and were not allowed by the the Portuguese to take their questions to the next stage.

On this forum amongst many, there was the absolute ridiculing of the Scotland Yard initiative to dig for evidence in Luz and a few surrounding areas ... one a spit in the wind in close proximity to where Christian Brueckner, had lived.

If within days of Madelene's disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions about a person now alleged to be Christian Brueckner, I think Goncalo Amaral ~ the man in charge ~ has a lot of very serious questions to answer.  Not least of which should be why his decision to ignore local offenders fitting a profile to directing a vendetta against Madeleine's parents.

Backlash ? From who ? You’re truly not suggesting that what any of us say on any of the various forums made a crumb of difference to how OG conducted their investigation?

‘If within days of Madeleine’s disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions’....how do you know this ?

Yet again I feel it necessary to add that Rebelo was coordinator of the investigation for far longer than Amaral but seems to constantly avoid your criticism? Why is that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 12:18:16 PM
It has been succinctly pointed out that this is a Portuguese investigation which operated (or sometimes wasn't allowed to) according to Portuguese rules.
The backlash against the Scotland Yard investigations was enormous when Scotland Yard were having to fight on all fronts against concerted efforts to stop them in their tracks.

On this forum amongst many, many others too numerous to count, there was the spirited defence of the burglars Scotland Yard were given leave to question after months of negotiation to enable them to do so.  They were given one bite at the cherry and were not allowed by the the Portuguese to take their questions to the next stage.

On this forum amongst many, there was the absolute ridiculing of the Scotland Yard initiative to dig for evidence in Luz and a few surrounding areas ... one a spit in the wind in close proximity to where Christian Brueckner, had lived.

If within days of Madelene's disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions about a person now alleged to be Christian Brueckner, I think Goncalo Amaral ~ the man in charge ~ has a lot of very serious questions to answer.  Not least of which should be why his decision to ignore local offenders fitting a profile to directing a vendetta against Madeleine's parents.

It wasn't a vendetta - don't forget the dogs in all this - ok its swept under the carpet on here.

But they still alerted to something - something they are trained to sniff out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 06, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
It wasn't a vendetta - don't forget the dogs in all this - ok its swept under the carpet on here.

But they still alerted to something - something they are trained to sniff out.

the alerts...Yawn
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 12:51:51 PM
It wasn't a vendetta - don't forget the dogs in all this - ok its swept under the carpet on here.

But they still alerted to something - something they are trained to sniff out.

Events have overtaken your prejudices and in my opinion you do not really understand the direction they have moved in therefore I'm not surprised you should raise old shibboleths.

Goncalo Amaral first of all raises the existence of a jailed German paedophile then in a smoke and mirrors move all without a scintilla of evidence rubbishes that he is a 'scapegoat'  ...


Snip
Goncalo Amaral made the explosive allegation that a German child sex offender would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation during an interview in April.

_________________________________________________________________________


Amaral, who was taken off the case after criticising some lines of inquiry by UK detectives, said in an interview with nine.com.au: "[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now."

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

The 43-year-old prisoner has not been named by British cops but was living in a campervan in Praia da Luz in Portugal around the time the youngster vanished on May 3, 2007.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11781188/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
the alerts...Yawn
They just won't let "Dogs Don't Lie" lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 12:59:39 PM
Events have overtaken your prejudices and in my opinion you do not really understand the direction they have moved in therefore I'm not surprised you should raise old shibboleths.

Goncalo Amaral first of all raises the existence of a jailed German paedophile then in a smoke and mirrors move all without a scintilla of evidence rubbishes that he is a 'scapegoat'  ...


Snip
Goncalo Amaral made the explosive allegation that a German child sex offender would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation during an interview in April.

_________________________________________________________________________


Amaral, who was taken off the case after criticising some lines of inquiry by UK detectives, said in an interview with nine.com.au: "[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now."

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

The 43-year-old prisoner has not been named by British cops but was living in a campervan in Praia da Luz in Portugal around the time the youngster vanished on May 3, 2007.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11781188/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile/


Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 06, 2020, 01:01:17 PM

Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found

he may or may not be involved but its a significant development...we will know more fairly soon no doubt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 01:02:20 PM
Events have overtaken your prejudices and in my opinion you do not really understand the direction they have moved in therefore I'm not surprised you should raise old shibboleths.

Goncalo Amaral first of all raises the existence of a jailed German paedophile then in a smoke and mirrors move all without a scintilla of evidence rubbishes that he is a 'scapegoat'  ...


Snip
Goncalo Amaral made the explosive allegation that a German child sex offender would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation during an interview in April.

_________________________________________________________________________


Amaral, who was taken off the case after criticising some lines of inquiry by UK detectives, said in an interview with nine.com.au: "[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now."

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

The 43-year-old prisoner has not been named by British cops but was living in a campervan in Praia da Luz in Portugal around the time the youngster vanished on May 3, 2007.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11781188/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile/

So Amaral is still trying to cover his backside.  What a backside.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 01:03:42 PM

Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found

According to media reports, the campervan has also been examined by German police, who also found no link to Madeleine. I think the same might have been said for the Jaguar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 06, 2020, 02:08:08 PM
Old, tabloid gossip....move on Lace.




No it wasn't,  these women had vital evidence that was ignored by the Portuguese Police.   I wonder how much other evidence was ignored.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/T-I-LONDON-31-12-07.htm


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:18:01 PM

Has anyone heard anything from Amaral, apart from The Scapegoat crack?

He might even have to pay The McCanns Damages.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
Has anyone heard anything from Amaral, apart from The Scapegoat crack?

He might even have to pay The McCanns Damages.

Which damages are these ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
Which damages are these ?

The ones he lost for Libelling The McCanns.  Before The Supreme Court stepped in and added to the shame of Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 02:28:21 PM



No it wasn't,  these women had vital evidence that was ignored by the Portuguese Police.   I wonder how much other evidence was ignored.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/T-I-LONDON-31-12-07.htm

Is there anything in the original files that verifies that they contact the PJ ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 02:31:44 PM
The ones he lost for Libelling The McCanns.  Before The Supreme Court stepped in and added to the shame of Portugal.

Ah, those damages. The ones he doesn't have to pay because he won the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Ah, those damages. The ones he doesn't have to pay because he won the case.

You think?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
You think?

I know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 02:45:24 PM
I expect his book has come in useful during recent loo roll shortages.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 02:54:41 PM

Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found

May I have a cite for that, please.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
I know.

The ECHR might have something to say about that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
The ECHR might have something to say about that.


You come across as an intelligent person, so you must realise that that is bollox.

 If The ECHR judges find in favour of McCann, then the State of Portugal will be liable for any compensatory payment. No one else.
However, if you wish to continue with your delusion in this matter, please feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
I expect his book has come in useful during recent loo roll shortages.

I only ever buy expensive loo paper.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 03:03:00 PM



No it wasn't,  these women had vital evidence that was ignored by the Portuguese Police.   I wonder how much other evidence was ignored.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/T-I-LONDON-31-12-07.htm

Well, we know for a certainty that Ricardo Piava ~ a senior officer from the start of the case and who also worked under Rebelo ~ in his turn filed loads of evidence between 2008 and 2010 during which time it was ignored.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 03:04:43 PM
Anyone keen to shift the blame away from Amaral and the PT team in the first months of the investigation ison a hiding to nothing IMO.  Imagine if this creep had chosen to keep Madeleine alive for a few days as is claimed he wanted to do (have a young plaything) then there might have been a chance of recovering her alive if the police had targeted known paedophiles and sex offenders first and investigated them thoroughly, not half-heartrdly as appears to have been the case.

Being a vile creep is not evidence of him being involved in the disappearance of MM. There are many vile creeps in missing pages from the PJ files. Present your evidence that he was involved as you are so certain about it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:06:29 PM

You come across as an intelligent person, so you must realise that that is bollox.

 If The ECHR judges find in favour of McCann, then the State of Portugal will be liable for any compensatory payment. No one else.
However, if you wish to continue with your delusion in this matter, please feel free to do so.

It will be how Portugal deals with Amaral that will be interesting.  And The Judges of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
It will be how Portugal deals with Amaral that will be interesting.  And The Judges of course.

All depends on whether or not the ECHR finds in favour of McCann, in which case the Supreme Court will take the ECHR judgement on board when considering future cases.

Portugal will take no action against Amaral as the case is done and dusted.

IMO and that of any sensible person.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:14:04 PM
Being a vile creep is not evidence of him being involved in the disappearance of MM. There are many vile creeps in missing pages from the PJ files. Present your evidence that he was involved as you are so certain about it?
I am not certain he did it, but I think there are very credible reasons for suspecting him over anyone else at this stage.  Perhaps you can present your evidence that he couldn't possibly have done it? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
I am not certain he did it, but I think there are very credible reasons for suspecting him over anyone else at this stage. Perhaps you can present your evidence that he couldn't possibly have done it?


Has anyone ever said that or is it just one of your twists?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:18:37 PM

Has anyone ever said that or is it just one of your twists?
What do you care?  Pathfinder twisted my post so I am twisting his - got a problem with that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:20:07 PM
What do you care?  Pathfinder twisted my post so I am twisting his - got a problem with that?

I just like to try and keep the record straight. Have you a problem with that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:21:45 PM
I just like to try and keep the record straight. Have you a problem with that ?
Yes - because you're not interested in keeping the record straight at all, just in finding fault with my posts.  Now kindly buzz off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:23:02 PM
All depends on whether or not the ECHR finds in favour of McCann, in which case the Supreme Court will take the ECHR judgement on board when considering future cases.

Portugal will take no action against Amaral as the case is done and dusted.

IMO and that of any sensible person.

There will be a new Supreme Court.  I'll bet you that for houses.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 03:23:06 PM
Well, we know for a certainty that Ricardo Piava ~ a senior officer from the start of the case and who also worked under Rebelo ~ in his turn filed loads of evidence between 2008 and 2010 during which time it was ignored.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.

No he didn’t....the files were marked not relevant to the case...that is not the same as ignoring them. As far as we know each one could have been followed up.

I do wish posters would stop regurgitating this absolute nonsense as if it was fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:25:00 PM
Yes - because you're not interested in keeping the record straight at all, just in finding fault with my posts.  Now kindly buzz off.

When were you appointed Chief blackboard monitor?

On a free forum I shall post whenever it suits me.

If you don't like that, then complain to a real moderator.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 03:25:59 PM
I am not certain he did it, but I think there are very credible reasons for suspecting him over anyone else at this stage.  Perhaps you can present your evidence that he couldn't possibly have done it? 

He could have done it but you require evidence! I've seen no reports of his jag or campervan being spotted that night.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
There will be a new Supreme Court.  I'll bet you that for houses.

We'll have to wait and see, not that it's important to me as I shall never come under its jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 03:29:38 PM
May I have a cite for that, please.



"He was investigated by the [Policia Judiciaria, Portugal's police] at the time [and] when the case ended they discarded him," he said.
"The trailer that he lived in was taken to Germany for testing but nothing was found there."
Mr Amaral said the German suspect was a convicted sex offender and was serving sentences in Germany unrelated the disappearance of Madeleine, arguably the world's most famous missing person case.
The former cop hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20 million London Metropolitan Police investigation for Maddie.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357?fbclid=IwAR2XeFUu2UGvtCHbKN0TDRLuFIfobTDKPo9Kf3Didgp-uCy15UXtgOAtecA
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:29:50 PM
When were you appointed Chief blackboard monitor?

On a free forum I shall post whenever it suits me.

If you don't like that, then complain to a real moderator.
You're the one "keeping records straight" - lol.  Who appointed you to that role out of interest? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
No he didn’t....the files were marked not relevant to the case...that is not the same as ignoring them. As far as we know each one could have been followed up.

I do wish posters would stop regurgitating this absolute nonsense as if it was fact.
"Not relevant" based on what sort on extensive investigations?  I don't see any evidence of Christian B being hauled in for questioning or his property searched back in 2007 in relation to Madeleine's disappearance. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:32:01 PM
We'll have to wait and see, not that it's important to me as I shall never come under its jurisdiction.

Nor me neither.  Such a pity.  I liked going to Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:32:56 PM
He could have done it but you require evidence! I've seen no reports of his jag or campervan being spotted that night.
How could he have done it, when you are 100% certain Gerry was Smithman?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 03:34:38 PM
Well, we know for a certainty that Ricardo Piava ~ a senior officer from the start of the case and who also worked under Rebelo ~ in his turn filed loads of evidence between 2008 and 2010 during which time it was ignored.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.


Well weren't they supposed to be looking for anything PJ had missed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 06, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
According to media reports, the campervan has also been examined by German police, who also found no link to Madeleine. I think the same might have been said for the Jaguar.

When did the German police get hold of the vehicles?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:45:45 PM
When did the German police get hold of the vehicles?

A couple of years ago, I believe. The van from a Portuguese scrapyard. Not sure about the jaguar

From the Daily Mail - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8392475/Maddie-McCann-suspect-sold-VW-campervan-2015-car-scrapyard.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 03:48:15 PM
It will be how Portugal deals with Amaral that will be interesting.  And The Judges of course.

You called the Supreme Court judgement "the shame of Portugal" which describes it perfectly.  I'm not sure that any corrective measures if taken from a nation so steeped in 'honour' will ever appear in the public domain.  But I think there will be retribution of one kind or another for Amaral as more and more details of his sorry tale receive more currency among those who matter, the ordinary people of Portugal.

I think there are signs of that already happening in his uncharacteristic silence.  The longer the situation in Germany goes on the worse I think it is going to be for Amaral and I wonder how long it will be before people start wondering ... why ignore a locally based criminal and go to the extreme lengths he did to persecute the parents of a missing child?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:53:28 PM
You called the Supreme Court judgement "the shame of Portugal" which describes it perfectly.  I'm not sure that any corrective measures if taken from a nation so steeped in 'honour' will ever appear in the public domain.  But I think there will be retribution of one kind or another for Amaral as more and more details of his sorry tale receive more currency among those who matter, the ordinary people of Portugal.

I think there are signs of that already happening in his uncharacteristic silence.  The longer the situation in Germany goes on the worse I think it is going to be for Amaral and I wonder how long it will be before people start wondering ... why ignore a locally based criminal and go to the extreme lengths he did to persecute the parents of a missing child?

I will never be able to understand this.  It has been pretty vile this last thirteen years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 03:56:40 PM
No he didn’t....the files were marked not relevant to the case...that is not the same as ignoring them. As far as we know each one could have been followed up.

I do wish posters would stop regurgitating this absolute nonsense as if it was fact.

You are in total denial.

The files Piava ignored were not looked at let alone investigated until the McCann private investigators did so in 2010.  They were passed to Scotland Yard as part of their scoping exercise in 2011 and the rest is history.

Of course you do know that ... you just refuse to accept it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 04:26:17 PM
You are in total denial.

The files Piava ignored were not looked at let alone investigated until the McCann private investigators did so in 2010.  They were passed to Scotland Yard as part of their scoping exercise in 2011 and the rest is history.

Of course you do know that ... you just refuse to accept it.


So why did no one else pick him up from the files.

What does the rest is history mean - SY spent 12 million seems on nothing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:29:06 PM

So why did no one else pick him up from the files.

What does the rest is history mean - SY spent 12 million seems on nothing
You don't think we are any closer to resolving this mystery than we were in 2008 then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
You don't think we are any closer to resolving this mystery than we were in 2008 then?

I wish you would stop following me VS  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 04:32:18 PM
You don't think we are any closer to resolving this mystery than we were in 2008 then?


Seriously - no I don't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:36:30 PM

Seriously - no I don't.
Like I said before "nothing to see here, move on, move on".

At the end of the day though your opinion is neither here nor there.  Clearly the police of three countries think they have made a significant breakthrough, and I sincerely hope that they are on the right track.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:37:36 PM
I wish you would stop following me VS  @)(++(*
Would you prefer it if I ignored your witterings?  If so just say the word and I will no longer respond directly to your posts. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 04:48:48 PM
You sincerely hope Maddie was murdered by a paedophile?

Takes all sorts I suppose.

His goal has always been to protect the parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 04:49:26 PM


"He was investigated by the [Policia Judiciaria, Portugal's police] at the time [and] when the case ended they discarded him," he said.
"The trailer that he lived in was taken to Germany for testing but nothing was found there."
Mr Amaral said the German suspect was a convicted sex offender and was serving sentences in Germany unrelated the disappearance of Madeleine, arguably the world's most famous missing person case.
The former cop hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20 million London Metropolitan Police investigation for Maddie.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357?fbclid=IwAR2XeFUu2UGvtCHbKN0TDRLuFIfobTDKPo9Kf3Didgp-uCy15UXtgOAtecA

Thank you.
Why do you think no-one has ever heard of his trailer and Jag being taken to Germany on 2007 and there is no record of it happening ... why would it have been?  I think you will find the quote is inaccurate and if really made by Amaral and not misreporting by 9, highly suspicious.

We know both vehicles were impounded recently to be checked by German forensics ... I wonder why they didn't pull out their 2007 forensic reports and refer to them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:51:06 PM
His goal has always been to protect the parents.
And you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 04:53:21 PM
To discover the truth. You don't want new advanced DNA tests just to convict anybody in anyway but not the parents!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:53:51 PM
It seems I need to repeat this

Someone on this thread has accused others of hoping that this vile specimen is the man responsible for Madeleine’s abduction and murder.  This is a complete misrepresentation of the truth.  Some people hope that justice for Madeleine will soon be achieved, nothing more nothing less.  The idea that this man could have abducted Madeleine and kept her alive for days to torture and abuse her before killing her makes me sick to my stomach and if I had to choose between that scenario and the falling off a sofa after an overdose of Calpol theory, then obviously I would prefer the latter.  I wish people would not twist what is said to make wholly inaccurate and offensive remarks simply to call into question the morality of others, particularly when their own moral judgement has been highly questionable for years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 04:54:16 PM
When did the German police get hold of the vehicles?

I don't know exactly when ... what I am as certain as I can be is that it was not in 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 04:54:24 PM
You are in total denial.

The files Piava ignored were not looked at let alone investigated until the McCann private investigators did so in 2010.  They were passed to Scotland Yard as part of their scoping exercise in 2011 and the rest is history.

Of course you do know that ... you just refuse to accept it.

Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:54:41 PM
To discover the truth. You don't want new advanced DNA tests just to convict anybody in anyway but not the parents!
Complete tripe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.

Ricardo Piava needed no assistance whatsoever to discredit himself.  I am amazed you should bring it up.

I am also amazed you condone his proven dereliction of duty in relation to the file which he thought would never see the light of day.
Was he stupid enough to think that those who had contributed to it such as other police forces might not on occasion wonder why there was no feedback ... or that there wasn't a record of information being being sent to him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 05:58:02 PM
Ricardo Piava needed no assistance whatsoever to discredit himself.  I am amazed you should bring it up.

I am also amazed you condone his proven dereliction of duty in relation to the file which he thought would never see the light of day.
Was he stupid enough to think that those who had contributed to it such as other police forces might not on occasion wonder why there was no feedback ... or that there wasn't a record of information being being sent to him.

There was no dereliction of duty.

How do you think that the parents gained access to the file ? If Pavia wasn’t investigating and compiling the information why was there a file at all ? Why not just throw the lot in the bin.....much less risk of being found out.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read any comments from other police forces re: the information or feedback. Do you have a link ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
Like I said before "nothing to see here, move on, move on".

At the end of the day though your opinion is neither here nor there.  Clearly the police of three countries think they have made a significant breakthrough, and I sincerely hope that they are on the right track.

You hope they are on the right track - I think GA was on the right track an at least he thought it an accident.

I doubt Maddie is ever going to be found - but better she went quickly than suffering god knows what.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 06:38:20 PM
There was no dereliction of duty.

How do you think that the parents gained access to the file ? If Pavia wasn’t investigating and compiling the information why was there a file at all ? Why not just throw the lot in the bin.....much less risk of being found out.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read any comments from other police forces re: the information or feedback. Do you have a link ?

Refresh your memory here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176391#msg176391 then if you want ~ open a thread on Paiva ~ it may assist this one to get back on the topic of Goncalo Amaral.

Neat piece of deflection work though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
You hope they are on the right track - I think GA was on the right track an at least he thought it an accident.

I doubt Maddie is ever going to be found - but better she went quickly than suffering god knows what.
I always believed she was taken by a paedophile but I would be relieved to be proven wrong and that if she is dead that it was swift and painless and without her knowing was was going on.  Sadly the way things are looking now I think her end was possibly horrific and quite terrifying.  Believing this to be the case is not the same as me wanting it to be the case as some people keep trying to make out, do you understand this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
Refresh your memory here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176391#msg176391 then if you want ~ open a thread on Paiva ~ it may assist this one to get back on the topic of Goncalo Amaral.

Neat piece of deflection work though.

It was you who brought up Pavia...but right back at you with your deflection quip.

The link you posted adds nothing.....so nothing new there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on June 06, 2020, 09:38:37 PM
It seems I need to repeat this

Someone on this thread has accused others of hoping that this vile specimen is the man responsible for Madeleine’s abduction and murder.  This is a complete misrepresentation of the truth.  Some people hope that justice for Madeleine will soon be achieved, nothing more nothing less.  The idea that this man could have abducted Madeleine and kept her alive for days to torture and abuse her before killing her makes me sick to my stomach and if I had to choose between that scenario and the falling off a sofa after an overdose of Calpol theory, then obviously I would prefer the latter.  I wish people would not twist what is said to make wholly inaccurate and offensive remarks simply to call into question the morality of others, particularly when their own moral judgement has been highly questionable for years.

It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 06, 2020, 11:55:10 PM
It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.
It’s my understanding that many child abductor/murderers have a history of petty crime that progressively gets less petty the longer they are able to get away with it.  This guy seems to fit that profile exactly up to and including the brutal torture and rape of a woman in the area.  Why do you think he would have stopped there in his quest for stimulation and gratification?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
Senior detective argues Madeleine McCann investigation was flawed from the start
An ex-officer who worked on the investigation explains why the search was doomed to failure


Dr Graham Hill, visiting research fellow at the school of law at the University of Leeds and former senior police officer, on the failings of the Madeleine McCann investigation.

News that a 43-year-old German man is now the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case appears – at last – to be a significant development.

The information from the German authorities and the Metropolitan Police Service indicates that in May 2007 this man was living and frequenting Praia da Luz, Portugal, and possibly committing burglaries at holiday complexes to fund his itinerant lifestyle. It also appears that as a teenager he was convicted of sexual offences against children in Germany and was therefore a known convicted sex offender in 2007.

This raises several questions: was he known to the Portuguese investigation team at the time? If so, when did his name enter their system and what did they do to implicate or eliminate him from their enquiry? When was his name passed on to the UK investigation team? These are questions at the forefront of my mind as I think back to my time in Portugal.

Madeleine McCann had been missing for several days when I arrived in Praia da Luz in May 2007. I had been sent to Portugal as part of the UK’s Child Exploitation Online Protection Centre (CEOP) response to Madeleine’s disappearance. I was a detective superintendent and senior investigating officer (SIO) with knowledge about predatory child sexual abusers and non-familial child abduction.

After being briefed at the British Consulate regarding Madeleine’s disappearance, I met with Gerry and Kate McCann at their holiday apartment and we discussed the Portuguese police investigation strategy and possible scenarios that could have led to their daughter’s disappearance. Understandably, the McCanns were trying to come to terms with the situation they found themselves in.

During our discussion, Gerry asked me directly if I thought his daughter was still alive, and I pointed out that if she had been abducted – statistically – she would by now be dead. The majority of children who are murdered after being abducted by someone unknown to them are dead within three to six hours. It was a difficult conversation, but I was struck by how focused the McCanns remained throughout.

The following day I went to the police station in Praia da Luz and spoke with several of the lead Portuguese investigators. They were all very polite but it was clear from their attitude and response that they didn’t welcome what they considered to be UK interference in a Portuguese crime.

At that time, they were also receiving advice from Leicestershire Police (the McCanns’ home police force) supported by the then UK National Police Improvement Agency (NPIA).

From the outset I was struck by the lack of urgency surrounding the investigation and it was difficult to establish any detailed information around what direction the investigation was taking. Over the next few days, whenever I suggested certain courses of action that they might wish to consider, the Portuguese police either dismissed it out of hand or I was informed that it had already been done without result.

Flawed investigation
As the days went by, I became more and more frustrated and I relayed this back to CEOP in my telephone conversations and daily written reports. After ten exasperating days avoiding the growing media presence, trying to get and impart information and having meetings cancelled at the last minute because investigators were too busy, it was still unclear to me whether many of the key investigative tasks had been adequately completed.

For example, I had serious misgivings about the quality of the search strategy, the recording of full-time and casual staff at the holiday complex, identification of all known suspected and convicted sex offenders living or frequenting the area, and other significant or relevant crimes in the local area.

My professional opinion was that the Portuguese investigative approach to Madeleine’s disappearance was flawed and not fit for purpose when set against what we would have been done in a similar investigation in the UK. This was reflected time and time again in my verbal and written reports and the “fiasco” was regularly reported on in the press.

Disappointingly, as the investigation progressed there was also a certain amount of inter-agency rivalry between the UK agencies involved, which resulted in a fraught working relationship.

‘Golden hours’ wasted
In the years since Madeleine’s disappearance, I have also raised my concerns as to whether agencies across Europe are still any better prepared for these types of investigations.

When an investigation team doesn’t gather information or act in a timely and systematic fashion, the investigation gets away from them and this dramatically reduces the chances of the crime being solved.

My experience then, and even more so now having studied the behaviour of non-familial child abductors and murderers in-depth as a criminologist, is that the first 24 to 48 hours of a child abduction investigation – often referred to as the “golden hours” – are critical to its successful outcome. It requires strong, dynamic leadership supported by clear defensible decision making.

This must be backed up by systems and structures designed to collect and evaluate information quickly. At the same time, information must be retained in a manner so that it can be revisited at appropriate times as the investigation moves forward and alternative lines of enquiry are considered.

Non-familial child abduction attracts vast amounts of media attention. High-profile cases often attract national media coverage and cases where the child is murdered become, what is called in criminology, “mega-homicides”. These cases can attract worldwide attention and generate vast amounts of information.

The potential for this information to overwhelm even the best-prepared investigation agency during the early hours or days of an inquiry is considerable. For this reason, there is a need for a systematic approach to core policing functions to deal with the complexity. And it is vital to have a thorough, well documented investigation strategy.

These investigations also require highly skilled and experienced investigators who have the ability to make defensible decisions based upon reliable information and create investigative strategy and policy that can stand the test of hindsight. A failure to do so can have serious consequences.

Three years after Madeleine’s disappearance, in 2010, I conducted and wrote CEOP’s internal review of the Portuguese investigation, which was subsequently passed to the Home Office. The review contained observations and recommendations that, after repeated requests from the McCanns, led to the Met being tasked to establish their own investigation, Operation Grange.

The information timeline, when fully known, may offer clarity and explanations to many of the questions that have been swirling around this case since 2007. But these explanations may also raise more uncomfortable questions about the effectiveness of the initial police inquiry and the competence of the people who led it. I only hope this new information leads to some form of closure for the McCanns.

Dr Graham Hill, visiting research fellow at the School of Law, University of Leeds.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/107185/madeleine-mccann-investigation-flawed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 08, 2020, 12:28:08 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

But he's an expert... I thought you didn't question the skills of experts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 08, 2020, 12:29:44 PM
Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.

I think the gullible ones are those that believe the rubbish in amarals book
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 12:30:31 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

One day before I die I plan on producing a cite which meets your exacting standards and a witness who meets with your approval.
I always intended to live for a long, long, long time now it looks as if I'll just have to go for immortality instead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 08, 2020, 12:34:28 PM
It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.

This is what has been promoted by some on the forum... But here ee have someone with a history of burglary and child abuse... In that respect it's an astonishing coincidence that someone like him was in Luz that night. He had no history of raping elderly ladies yet that's what one if his burglaries turned into
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 08, 2020, 12:36:49 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

Do you have s cite for the 8 other couples and locking the apartment...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
Do you have s cite for the 8 other couples and locking the apartment...

I wonder if Rosalinda Hutton and Sonia Poulton ring any bells
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
I wonder if Rosalinda Hutton and Sonia Poulton ring any bells

Care to expand ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 08, 2020, 01:15:09 PM
But he's an expert... I thought you didn't question the skills of experts

An expert who didn't know basic facts about this case. That is not an expert.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 08, 2020, 01:18:34 PM
An expert who didn't know basic facts about this case. That is not an expert.

What facts didn't he know... With a cite.  More like you and gunit just don't like to hear his view that the Portuguese investigation was not fit for purpose
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 08, 2020, 01:29:25 PM
You missed G-Unit's post?

16 friends, 8 other couples, locked the apartment - Graham Hill is certainly not an expert on this case!

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2020, 01:30:32 PM
One day before I die I plan on producing a cite which meets your exacting standards and a witness who meets with your approval.
I always intended to live for a long, long, long time now it looks as if I'll just have to go for immortality instead.

Won't we all.  No one is getting anywhere fast at the moment.  But it keeps us all going.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 02:33:10 PM
You missed G-Unit's post?

16 friends, 8 other couples, locked the apartment - Graham Hill is certainly not an expert on this case!


He and his colleague seem to have concentrated on Murat and on developing his psychological profile, according to Amaral. [TOTL .pdf page 45]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
He and his colleague seem to have concentrated on Murat and on developing his psychological profile, according to Amaral. [TOTL .pdf page 45]

Did this investigator even speak to the parents as he seems to know a lot about how they think ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 08, 2020, 06:10:29 PM
You missed G-Unit's post?

16 friends, 8 other couples, locked the apartment - Graham Hill is certainly not an expert on this case!



Damn fine racing driver though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 06:54:46 PM
Did this investigator even speak to the parents as he seems to know a lot about how they think ?

He probably did during the first week he was there waiting for the PJ to notice him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 07:05:40 PM
He probably did during the first week he was there waiting for the PJ to notice him.

But for him to have the level of knowledge about their behaviour and motivations the conversations must have been long and intensive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 08:32:59 PM
But for him to have the level of knowledge about their behaviour and motivations the conversations must have been long and intensive.

He did seem very knowledgeable about them, if not about the details of the disappearance. He seemed to be repeating the McCann's thoughts and explanations rather than having reached his own conclusions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
He did seem very knowledgeable about them, if not about the details of the disappearance. He seemed to be repeating the McCann's thoughts and explanations rather than having reached his own conclusions.

I don't know if it was necessary for him to have interviewed any witnesses.  I rather think he might have been there as observer and adviser.

What I do know is that Amaral never met with Kate and Gerry had met him once, very briefly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 10:07:53 PM
I don't know if it was necessary for him to have interviewed any witnesses.  I rather think he might have been there as observer and adviser.

What I do know is that Amaral never met with Kate and Gerry had met him once, very briefly.

Kate and Gerry McCann had meetings with the men running the investigation; Encarnacao and Neves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 08, 2020, 10:11:56 PM
The German police are now sounding fairly certain that Madeleine is dead and that they have evidence the German did it. 
Whether Graham Hill is an expert on the McCanns or not seems a redundant argument now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 10:45:38 PM
Kate and Gerry McCann had meetings with the men running the investigation; Encarnacao and Neves.

Sorry I forgot Amaral was only the tea boy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 08, 2020, 10:54:23 PM
Sorry I forgot Amaral was only the tea boy.
”I waz only obeying orderz”.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 07:17:31 AM
Sorry I forgot Amaral was only the tea boy.

I didn't say that and you know it's not true. He was the coordinator, but he wasn't in charge.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 09, 2020, 07:25:49 AM
I didn't say that and you know it's not true. He was the coordinator, but he wasn't in charge.
So quite ok for him to form an opinion about the McCanns guilt or otherwise without meeting them, Graham Hill on the other hand...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
So quite ok for him to form an opinion about the McCanns guilt or otherwise without meeting them, Graham Hill on the other hand...

Many many people have formed opinions about the McCann's guilt or innocence without meeting them. When the McCanns wanted to flee Portugal it was the man in charge who they approached and who gave his permission; Encarnacao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
The German police are now sounding fairly certain that Madeleine is dead and that they have evidence the German did it. 
Whether Graham Hill is an expert on the McCanns or not seems a redundant argument now.

Just shows you believe everything you read - the evidence is only CB told someone she was
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
posters want to criticise hills lack of knowledge...what is far far  far more important is amarals lack of knowledge.
He claimed


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment

All wrong and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
posters want to criticise hills lack of knowledge...what is far far  far more important is amarals lack of knowledge.
He claimed


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment

All wrong and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation


All that is going on with CB is circumstantial evidence - IMO GA had more circumstantial on mccs.

The fact is as well - the mccs was definitely there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 10:02:16 AM

All that is going on with CB is circumstantial evidence - IMO GA had more circumstantial on mccs.

The fact is as well - the mccs was definitely there

I'm pointing out how much amaral got wrong...facts not opinions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 10:20:04 AM

I shudder to think of what The Media will do to Goncalo Amaral over The Cipriano Case if this all proves to be true.

No wonder he went quiet.  He surely must see this coming.

Meanwhile, The Portuguese Judiciary have lost all credibility, even if in not knowing that they had a convicted Paedophile and Rapist rampaging around The Algarve.  Although I don't believe that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 10:32:40 AM
posters want to criticise hills lack of knowledge...what is far far  far more important is amarals lack of knowledge.
He claimed


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment

All wrong and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation

You accuse Amaral of lacking knowledge but ignore the fact that his superiors must have agreed with him otherwise the investigation would have changed direction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
You accuse Amaral of lacking knowledge but ignore the fact that his superiors must have agreed with him otherwise the investigation would have changed direction.

Yes it seems they all got it wrong.. In Harrison's report he states how they had a meeting with the PJ and explained the alerts needed to be verified.. It seems they didn't listen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 10:38:58 AM
You accuse Amaral of lacking knowledge but ignore the fact that his superiors must have agreed with him otherwise the investigation would have changed direction.

I've included them in Loss of Credibility.  None of them knew about this Convicted Paedophile and Rapist?

I simply do not believe that they didn't know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
Yes it seems they all got it wrong.. In Harrison's report he states how they had a meeting with the PJ and explained the alerts needed to be verified.. It seems they didn't listen

Who suggested adding the McCann's villa, clothing and car to the dog's itinerary? In my opinion that was Harrison.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 10:42:27 AM
I'm pointing out how much amaral got wrong...facts not opinions.


You - dont know yet if he did get it wrong fact ....it is only your opinion he did.

Oh and no need to say you understood the evidence - on abduction, there wasn't any.fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 11:03:26 AM
I've included them in Loss of Credibility.  None of them knew about this Convicted Paedophile and Rapist?

I simply do not believe that they didn't know.

Was he a convicted rapist at that point? Had the German police notified the Portuguese that he was wanted in Germany? Did anyone draw the attention of the PJ to this man? If so, who were they and what did they say?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:41 AM
The Smith family saw the man with Madeleine that night. Amaral was on the correct path but it is now up to OG  to fully investigate that sighting if they are going to solve this case! If they want to find a body they can start by employing cadaver dogs in boats on Barragem da Bravura lake.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 11:09:23 AM
Was he a convicted rapist at that point? Had the German police notified the Portuguese that he was wanted in Germany? Did anyone draw the attention of the PJ to this man? If so, who were they and what did they say?

He was a Convicted Paedophile.  Isn't that enough?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
Many many people have formed opinions about the McCann's guilt or innocence without meeting them. When the McCanns wanted to flee Portugal it was the man in charge who they approached and who gave his permission; Encarnacao.

What a pejorative word "flee" is particularly when it is used out of context and inaccurately to boot ... but you know that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 11:21:34 AM

You - dont know yet if he did get it wrong fact ....it is only your opinion he did.

Oh and no need to say you understood the evidence - on abduction, there wasn't any.fact

Do you actually read the posts... I've listed the things he got wrong.. The fallacies on which he based his theory... The fallacies I've pointed out are facts... Not opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 11:33:03 AM
I shudder to think of what The Media will do to Goncalo Amaral over The Cipriano Case if this all proves to be true.

No wonder he went quiet.  He surely must see this coming.

Meanwhile, The Portuguese Judiciary have lost all credibility, even if in not knowing that they had a convicted Paedophile and Rapist rampaging around The Algarve.  Although I don't believe that.

I think they knew perfectly well.  I will give them that they may not have known exactly who, maybe they didn't bother to find out.  But for the allegedly top cop in the drug war not to put two and two together is extraordinary, maybe going after the McCanns was was thought to be the easier option. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 11:47:18 AM
What a pejorative word "flee" is particularly when it is used out of context and inaccurately to boot ... but you know that.

Ok, they ran away.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Ok, they ran away.

i'm quite happy with that and i don't blame them...from an inept police force who didn't undersatnd the evidence who might arrest them and hold them in custody
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Ok, they ran away.

No they didn't.  They left with the permission of The PJ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Do you actually read the posts... I've listed the things he got wrong.. The fallacies on which he based his theory... The fallacies I've pointed out are facts... Not opinion


Do you read mine?

Why did GA go on to write TOTL then - and still stands by what he wrote if he thought he got the evidence all wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
No they didn't.  They left with the permission of The PJ.

I think the rush to taint them with suspicion was because they made it known they were returning home.  The let on the villa was up and when they did go it was with the full knowledge and permission of the Portuguese authorities.

On the other hand Davel's post might not be too far off the mark as the definition describes ...
verb: flee; 3rd person present: flees; past tense: fled; past participle: fled; gerund or present participle: fleeing
run away from a place or situation of danger.

In my opinion they were in mortal danger for the reasons posted and more.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 09, 2020, 02:06:38 PM
I think the rush to taint them with suspicion was because they made it known they were returning home.  The let on the villa was up and when they did go it was with the full knowledge and permission of the Portuguese authorities.

On the other hand Davel's post might not be too far off the mark as the definition describes ...
verb: flee; 3rd person present: flees; past tense: fled; past participle: fled; gerund or present participle: fleeing
run away from a place or situation of danger.

In my opinion they were in mortal danger for the reasons posted and more.

Mortal danger ? That’s a pretty big statement. Care to elaborate?

I seem to remember Philomena being interviewed after they were made arguidos and saying that they would not be leaving Portugal until Madeleine was found.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 02:49:37 PM
Who suggested adding the McCann's villa, clothing and car to the dog's itinerary? In my opinion that was Harrison.

so its your opinion...which we know is alittle biased...that the decision to screen the car was Harrisons. thats a big accusation...and you have nothing to support it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 02:52:04 PM

You - dont know yet if he did get it wrong fact ....it is only your opinion he did.

Oh and no need to say you understood the evidence - on abduction, there wasn't any.fact

amaral claimed in his book and documentary..


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment


All wrong   ...not opinion fact and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 03:06:34 PM
amaral claimed in his book and documentary..


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment


All wrong   ...not opinion fact and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation

But he still wrote it in his book. - and still believes Maddie died in the apartment

What you don't know IMO is that she didn't - do you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 09, 2020, 03:13:30 PM
If Brueckner, or any one else for that matter did murder Madeleine in the first few days of her disappearance, Amaral cannot be accused of having hindered the search for her by claiming she was dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 03:18:59 PM
If Brueckner, or any one else for that matter did murder Madeleine in the first few days of her disappearance, Amaral cannot be accused of having hindered the search for her by claiming she was dead.

He certainly can be accused of hindering (I would say obliterating) the search for the perpetrator and getting "justice for Madeleine" by getting even elementary diligences entirely wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 09, 2020, 03:20:55 PM
He certainly can be accused of hindering (I would say obliterating) the search for the perpetrator and getting "justice for Madeleine" by getting even elementary diligences entirely wrong.

Different argument, but thanks for the twist.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 09, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
But he still wrote it in his book. - and still believes Maddie died in the apartment

What you don't know IMO is that she didn't - do you.

I'm pointing out he was wrong.. ..I'm not bothered what amaral thinks... His opinions are based on things thst are not true.. As I've shown
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 09, 2020, 04:58:26 PM
If Brueckner, or any one else for that matter did murder Madeleine in the first few days of her disappearance, Amaral cannot be accused of having hindered the search for her by claiming she was dead.
What can he be accused of, or is he simply a saint in your view?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 09, 2020, 05:01:16 PM
What can he be accused of, or is he simply a saint in your view?
I don't accuse him of anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 09, 2020, 06:16:16 PM
I don't accuse him of anything.
Of course you don’t - the man is the leading figurehead of the anti-McCann crusade of the last 13 years.  No doubt he has your utmost admiration for all he has done for the cause.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 10, 2020, 12:27:37 AM
I'm pointing out he was wrong.. ..I'm not bothered what amaral thinks... His opinions are based on things thst are not true.. As I've shown

As the poster stated you do not know that Madeleine did not die in the Apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 10, 2020, 10:26:30 AM
As the poster stated you do not know that Madeleine did not die in the Apartment.

What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 10, 2020, 10:30:50 AM
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.

There are indications.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 10, 2020, 10:32:59 AM
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.

There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine was abducted from the apartment either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 10:34:05 AM
There are indications.

Oh, those blimmin dogs again.  Where is Martin Grime when you need him?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 10:35:03 AM
As the poster stated you do not know that Madeleine did not die in the Apartment.

What i know is that amaral claimed things that were not true...and these untrue things were part of his evidence to support his theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 10:46:58 AM
What i know is that amaral claimed things that were not true...and these untrue things were part of his evidence to support his theory.

I am still hoping that Amaral was trying to vindicate himself over the cock up of The Cipriano Case and therefor had to try and prove that it was another Mother who did this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 10, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.

Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 11:08:35 AM
Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?

Cadaverines come from many things and not just dead bodies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 10, 2020, 01:50:01 PM
Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?

Dead white blood cells, along with tissue debris & bacteria, can be found in pus. Both the VRD & CSI dog were trained to alert to the individual components of blood.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 02:05:16 PM
Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?

you are making an assumption taht cadaverine was present. you do realise eddie reacts to blood too and whilst keela raects only to blood that has dried in situ ...eddie reacts to blood that has not dried in situ. This means that even if only eddie alerts the alert may be to blood and not cadaverine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 10, 2020, 02:14:28 PM
you are making an assumption taht cadaverine was present. you do realise eddie reacts to blood too and whilst keela raects only to blood that has dried in situ ...eddie reacts to blood that has not dried in situ. This means that even if only eddie alerts the alert may be to blood and not cadaverine

If Keela doesn’t alert then it’s cadaverine. Keela didn’t alert in the bedroom.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 02:15:20 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/DQJWgQd/1591794783002.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
If Keela doesn’t alert then it’s cadaverine. Keela didn’t alert in the bedroom.

not according to Grime...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to both blood dried in itu and blood not dried in situ
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 10, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
not according to Grime...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to both blood dried in itu and blood not dried in situ

Eddie alerts to blood and the scent given off by a cadaver....Keela alerts to blood...therefore if Eddie alerts and Keela doesn’t it isn’t to blood. It really is that simple.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 02:31:47 PM
Eddie alerts to blood and the scent given off by a cadaver....Keela alerts to blood...therefore if Eddie alerts and Keela doesn’t it isn’t to blood. It really is that simple.

you are quite wrong

Its never that simple...im quoting what Grime has said and hes the trainer. Again...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to blood that may have been shed ...diluted with water and not dried immediately. Therefore no alert from keela but an  alert from eddie could be blood.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 02:39:00 PM
Eddie alerts to blood and the scent given off by a cadaver....Keela alerts to blood...therefore if Eddie alerts and Keela doesn’t it isn’t to blood. It really is that simple.

So what do you think Eddie was alerting to?  I have had a bit of a problem with this.

What else stinks of Cadaver?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 02:58:23 PM
you are quite wrong

Its never that simple...im quoting what Grime has said and hes the trainer. Again...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to blood that may have been shed ...diluted with water and not dried immediately. Therefore no alert from keela but an  alert from eddie could be blood.

In Grime's opinion all of Eddie's alerts were to cadaver scent - no blood was found on the clothes and Keela did not alert only Eddie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 03:28:57 PM
In Grime's opinion all of Eddie's alerts were to cadaver scent - no blood was found on the clothes and Keela did not alert only Eddie.

you are wrong...which doesnt say a lot for your understanding of the alerts after 13 years. Grime said possible or suggestive of cadaver scent..he didnt say they were to cadaver scent....he also said keela doesnt react to blood that hasnt dried in situ but eddie does...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 04:35:04 PM
you are wrong...which doesnt say a lot for your understanding of the alerts after 13 years. Grime said possible or suggestive of cadaver scent..he didnt say they were to cadaver scent....he also said keela doesnt react to blood that hasnt dried in situ but eddie does...

You are wrong.

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
You are wrong.

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

It says.. Suggestive... Not that it is cadaver scent.. You've just proved me right.. LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 10, 2020, 05:41:28 PM
There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine was abducted from the apartment either.

Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke and now we have been made aware of individuals fitting a profile on the loose and active in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance it makes it all the more extraordinary that Amaral neglected to do something about that rather than his own thing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 05:47:15 PM
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke and now we have been made aware of individuals fitting a profile on the loose and active in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance it makes it all the more extraordinary that Amaral neglected to do something about that rather than his own thing.

We are never going to get our heads around the gross incompetence of Goncalo Amaral, so probably best to stop trying.

If it was just gross incompetence of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
It says.. Suggestive... Not that it is cadaver scent.. You've just proved me right.. LOL

That is the wording they use. If they ever put Martin Grime on the stand you will know what he thinks!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 10, 2020, 06:10:59 PM
That is the wording they use. If they ever put Martin Grime on the stand you will know what he thinks!

so you accept you are wrong...but of course you think you know what grime thinks
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 10, 2020, 06:36:10 PM
You guys still arguing about the dog alerts 13 years later, hilarious.  They are not relevant and haven’t been for the last 12 years.  Ask the three police forces involved  how much  relevance they have to their current investigation and I guarantee it will be zero.  Why isn’t MG out there now searching for Madeleine’s body on Brückner’s properties?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 08:01:02 PM
That's funny I'm sure I saw dogs with Operation Grange in PDL but maybe I was dreaming!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 10, 2020, 08:10:32 PM
That's funny I'm sure I saw dogs with Operation Grange in PDL but maybe I was dreaming!
Oh, was it Martin Grime?  Maybe you were dreaming!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 10, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
That is the wording they use. If they ever put Martin Grime on the stand you will know what he thinks!

I believe Martin Grime said Eddie could have been alerting to ancient scents. That covers about everything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 10, 2020, 08:13:35 PM
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke and now we have been made aware of individuals fitting a profile on the loose and active in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance it makes it all the more extraordinary that Amaral neglected to do something about that rather than his own thing.

There's still no evidence of abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 10, 2020, 08:17:40 PM
There's still no evidence of abduction.
Yes there is.  Just because you don’t accept it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.  If there is literally no evidence that Madeleine was abducted then you must think three police forces are completely mad or corrupt or both.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 01:15:03 AM
There's still no evidence of abduction.

There is eye witness evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 11, 2020, 04:06:05 AM
There is eye witness evidence.
To what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
To what?

Please do not start another day of stupid, meaningless, disruptive comment. 

Just scroll back to previous immediate comments and it will give an idea of exactly what is being 'debated'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 11, 2020, 08:36:51 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/11/madeleine-mccann-case-police-portugal-remain-convinced-parents/

Hans Christian Wolters, the state prosecutor in Braunschweig, northern Germany, said working with the Portuguese authorities over the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine is "time consuming" as both sides have differing opinions on what happened to the missing three-year-old.

It was Mr Wolters who announced last week that a 43-year-old German man - later identified as convicted paedophile Christian B - was now the key suspect in her disappearance.

He insists it is now a "German investigation" and evidence is passed to the Portuguese police when appropriate.

The suspect is currently serving a jail sentence for a drugs offence and has been put in isolation to protect him from fellow prisoners following last week's revelations. He is also receiving counselling on how to deal with the intense media coverage and has appointed Johann Schwenn, one of Germany's most high-profile defence lawyers, it was disclosed yesterday.

Madeleine went missing from Praia da Luz while on holiday with her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, and two siblings.

The Portuguese police have faced significant criticism for their handling of the case, which involved naming the McCanns as official suspects -- or "arguidos" -- for 10 months.

Mr Wolters said the prosecutor's office in Braunschweig, the town where the suspect lived most recently, has evidence that suggests he killed Madeleine in Portugal not long after her abduction.

"We have no evidence that he held on to Maddie for some period. I personally think that she was killed a short time after she disappeared," he said.

Commenting on the working relationship with the Portuguese police, Mr Wolters said: "Working together with authorities in south European countries is generally more time-consuming. They take a long time for everything and the French or British police are faster. We do stay in contact with the colleagues in Portugal, but everything is more cumbersome.

"I think the Portuguese officials still think that Maddie's parents are responsible for her disappearance." A senior source in the Portuguese police yesterday said that they are not searching any of the suspect's former homes until they get a request from Germany. "We will do what they say," he said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 11, 2020, 10:34:24 AM
There is eye witness evidence.

Yes 9 crucial ones - the Smiths as Amaral said 13 years ago!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 12:19:56 PM
Yes 9 crucial ones - the Smiths as Amaral said 13 years ago!

My reference was to the eye witness who reported what she saw to the police at the earliest possible opportunity, which is when they arrived at the crime scene.
It had nothing to do with the Smiths who only reported their sighting a fortnight after the event as the result of Mr Smith the younger wondering if he had dreamt the whole thing up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 11, 2020, 01:16:23 PM
Still the final lead in this case after the German is cleared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
My reference was to the eye witness who reported what she saw to the police at the earliest possible opportunity, which is when they arrived at the crime scene.
It had nothing to do with the Smiths who only reported their sighting a fortnight after the event as the result of Mr Smith the younger wondering if he had dreamt the whole thing up.

Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

Did this family of 9 have a group hallucination?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 11, 2020, 02:59:42 PM
Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

Did this family of 9 have a group hallucination?

A hallucination that OG made their main suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 03:06:48 PM
Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

Did this family of 9 have a group hallucination?


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 11, 2020, 03:31:08 PM

  • Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

    Have you seen these people? Do you know who they might be?
    witness_accountsThese two pictures show a man carrying a child away from the family's apartment. This sighting was seen by a witness at 21:15 on the evening of Thursday, May 3rd, 2007.

    Based on more recent information, the Metropolitan Police now believe this man may represent a guest at the Ocean Club who was carrying his daughter back to their apartment. However as it is not possible to be certain that these two men are actually the same person, if you have seen this man in the pictures or suspect who it may be, please contact the Metropolitan Police's OPERATION GRANGE on 0207 321 9251 (0044 207 321 9251 from outside the UK) or Operation.Grange@met.pnn.police.uk and/or the Find Madeleine team on +44 845 838 4699 or investigation@findmadeleine.com.
  • What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

    "We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
    Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)  January 3, 2008

Is your first quote from the Find Madeleine site ?

Just checked, yes it is.

Now do you have something from OG because as far as I’m aware OG have never suggested what you have quoted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 05:05:53 PM


  • Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

    Have you seen these people? Do you know who they might be?
    witness_accountsThese two pictures show a man carrying a child away from the family's apartment. This sighting was seen by a witness at 21:15 on the evening of Thursday, May 3rd, 2007.

    Based on more recent information, the Metropolitan Police now believe this man may represent a guest at the Ocean Club who was carrying his daughter back to their apartment. However as it is not possible to be certain that these two men are actually the same person, if you have seen this man in the pictures or suspect who it may be, please contact the Metropolitan Police's OPERATION GRANGE on 0207 321 9251 (0044 207 321 9251 from outside the UK) or Operation.Grange@met.pnn.police.uk and/or the Find Madeleine team on +44 845 838 4699 or investigation@findmadeleine.com.
  • What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

    "We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
    Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)  January 3, 2008

Quoting the find Madeleine website LOL

Remember how they never publicised them Smith e-fits?

I wonder why they did that, considering the whole Smith family were only dreaming & it definitely wasn't Gerry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
Quoting the find Madeleine website LOL

Remember how they never publicised them Smith e-fits?

I wonder why they did that, considering the whole Smith family were only dreaming & it definitely wasn't Gerry.

You have made a claim regarding Jane Tanner which is false.

You asked if the Smiths were hallucinating ... according to them they had to check it out that they weren't dreaming.

I think it might be more pertinent for you to wonder why Amaral didn't bother to do anything about the Smith sighting.  He did know about it between May and September 2007 ... why do you suppose he didn't bother to publicise it at any time during that period?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
Why don't you tell us ? You think you know all the answers
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 11, 2020, 07:14:21 PM
You have made a claim regarding Jane Tanner which is false.

You asked if the Smiths were hallucinating ... according to them they had to check it out that they weren't dreaming.

I think it might be more pertinent for you to wonder why Amaral didn't bother to do anything about the Smith sighting.  He did know about it between May and September 2007 ... why do you suppose he didn't bother to publicise it at any time during that period?

He investigated the sighting, took statements and then later made arrangements for the family to return to Portugal for further questionning and a formal ID.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 07:15:07 PM
You have made a claim regarding Jane Tanner which is false.

You asked if the Smiths were hallucinating ... according to them they had to check it out that they weren't dreaming.

I think it might be more pertinent for you to wonder why Amaral didn't bother to do anything about the Smith sighting.  He did know about it between May and September 2007 ... why do you suppose he didn't bother to publicise it at any time during that period?

The police believe Jane Tanner saw doctor Totman.

Jane Tanner hasn't disputed this. Ergo, she's satisfied she saw him & not an abductor.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
The police believe Jane Tanner saw doctor Totman.

Jane Tanner hasn't disputed this. Ergo, she's satisfied she saw him & not an abductor.

IMO Tanner is keeping her head down and wishes it would all go away.
If only she hadn't listened to Dave when he said' Hey guys how about a week in Portugal?'
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2020, 08:06:57 PM
IMO Tanner is keeping her head down and wishes it would all go away.
If only she hadn't listened to Dave when he said' Hey guys how about a week in Portugal?'

I imagine the whole holiday group feel likewise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 11:50:13 PM
He investigated the sighting, took statements and then later made arrangements for the family to return to Portugal for further questionning and a formal ID.

Between May and September Amaral did absolutely nothing regarding the Smiths.  He just was not interested.             The Smith episode was bracketed by two significant events which makes it stand out.

Why was it that Amaral showed no interest in Richard McCluskey's sworn statement which was in the hands of the PJ prior to Martin Smith's. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 12, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine was abducted from the apartment either.


So how did she vanish?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 12:53:16 AM
Between May and September Amaral did absolutely nothing regarding the Smiths.  He just was not interested.             The Smith episode was bracketed by two significant events which makes it stand out.

Why was it that Amaral showed no interest in Richard McCluskey's sworn statement which was in the hands of the PJ prior to Martin Smith's. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

Do you think if you say something enough times it becomes the truth ? Amaral brought some of the Smith family back for a reconstruction. That isn’t absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 12, 2020, 01:37:52 AM

So how did she vanish?
Best direct that at three separate investigative police forces,doesn't seem to any accord there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 12, 2020, 01:54:04 AM
Do you think if you say something enough times it becomes the truth ? Amaral brought some of the Smith family back for a reconstruction. That isn’t absolutely nothing.

Again I ask - why was the Smith family reconstruction deemed more important than one by the Tapas group?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 02:55:17 AM
Again I ask - why was the Smith family reconstruction deemed more important than one by the Tapas group?

It wasn't. Amaral wanted to do both. Arrangements were made for the Smith family. The T7 threw up loads of obstacles and were most reluctant to agree to a reconstruction arranged by the PJ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 04:44:58 AM
It wasn't. Amaral wanted to do both. Arrangements were made for the Smith family. The T7 threw up loads of obstacles and were most reluctant to agree to a reconstruction arranged by the PJ.
The three Smiths were brought over to Praia da Luz on the 26th May 2007. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
The month of June went past ... Amaral took no action and the Smiths were ignored.
The month of July came and went ... still Amaral took no action re the Smiths.
August passed ... without Amaral doing anything about the Smith sighting.

For most of September the Smiths continued to be ignored until suddenly Amaral claims to have been galvanised into action by an addition made to his original statement by Martin Smiith on 20th September, 2007 as follows ...

Snip
"This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann." ...
"He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head."


Prior to that another credible witness made a change to his statement on 12th September 2007 to the effect that ...

Snip
"I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following; ...
Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

So having the McCluskey amendment to hand on 12th September in conjunction with the amended Smith statement of the 20th September absolutely no arrangements tentative or otherwise, had been made for either party to come to Portugal to assist the investigation in any way whatsoever as Amaral bungled his way towards his sacking from Madeleine's case on the 3rd of October 2007.

Snip
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
_____________________________________________________

Forensic tests were conducted on behalf of the Portuguese police at a government laboratory in Birmingham. Portuguese police leaked to the local press that the evidence indicated DNA from Madeleine was in the boot of a rental car the McCanns used after her disappearance, and led to them becoming formal suspects. However, Mr Ribeiro said the forensic tests were inconclusive.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4


The evidence does not support what Amaral says about making arrangements for the Smiths, but nothing new about Amaral making unsupported allegations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 07:46:05 AM

So how did she vanish?

Nobody knows for sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Nobody knows for sure.
But abduction from the apartment is “virtually impossible “, you forgot to add.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 08:09:03 AM
Between May and September Amaral did absolutely nothing regarding the Smiths.  He just was not interested.             The Smith episode was bracketed by two significant events which makes it stand out.

Why was it that Amaral showed no interest in Richard McCluskey's sworn statement which was in the hands of the PJ prior to Martin Smith's. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

Mr McClusky thought he saw Kate McCann; even though she didn't speak English! The couple he saw were investigated and ruled out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 08:17:53 AM
But abduction from the apartment is “virtually impossible “, you forgot to add.

I was merely referring to the lack of evidence of abduction, not to the logistics of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 08:29:43 AM
I was merely referring to the lack of evidence of abduction, not to the logistics of it.
That makes no sense.  A  LACK of evidence doesn’t make something virtually impossible.  In any case if I recall correctly, your critique included logistics also.  You poo-pooed the idea that there was any time for an abductor to strike.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 09:11:38 AM
That makes no sense. A  LACK of evidence doesn’t make something virtually impossible.  In any case if I recall correctly, your critique included logistics also.  You poo-pooed the idea that there was any time for an abductor to strike.

You are conflating two seperate arguments. One is whether there was any evidence of abduction. The other is whether there was opprtunity for an abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
The three Smiths were brought over to Praia da Luz on the 26th May 2007. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
The month of June went past ... Amaral took no action and the Smiths were ignored.
The month of July came and went ... still Amaral took no action re the Smiths.
August passed ... without Amaral doing anything about the Smith sighting.

For most of September the Smiths continued to be ignored until suddenly Amaral claims to have been galvanised into action by an addition made to his original statement by Martin Smiith on 20th September, 2007 as follows ...

Snip
"This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann." ...
"He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head."


Prior to that another credible witness made a change to his statement on 12th September 2007 to the effect that ...

Snip
"I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following; ...
Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

So having the McCluskey amendment to hand on 12th September in conjunction with the amended Smith statement of the 20th September absolutely no arrangements tentative or otherwise, had been made for either party to come to Portugal to assist the investigation in any way whatsoever as Amaral bungled his way towards his sacking from Madeleine's case on the 3rd of October 2007.

Snip
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
_____________________________________________________

Forensic tests were conducted on behalf of the Portuguese police at a government laboratory in Birmingham. Portuguese police leaked to the local press that the evidence indicated DNA from Madeleine was in the boot of a rental car the McCanns used after her disappearance, and led to them becoming formal suspects. However, Mr Ribeiro said the forensic tests were inconclusive.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4


The evidence does not support what Amaral says about making arrangements for the Smiths, but nothing new about Amaral making unsupported allegations.

It's because Martin Smith had his lightbulb moment and contacted the Police again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 09:30:33 AM
It's because Martin Smith had his lightbulb moment and contacted the Police again.

Some light bulb moment.  That's how most people carry small children.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 12, 2020, 10:10:46 AM
I was merely referring to the lack of evidence of abduction, not to the logistics of it.
In reality the available evidence proves that abduction is highly likely
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 10:36:08 AM
In reality the available evidence proves that abduction is highly likely

And what evidence shows that? I’m yet to see any!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 10:46:42 AM
It's because Martin Smith had his lightbulb moment and contacted the Police again.

You are ignoring the point I made.

Mr McCluskey too had an almost identical "lightbulb moment".

Only he had his on the 10th of September while Mr Smith's was on the 20th of September.

Why would Amaral say he was 'about to act' on one and why ignore the other.

I reiterate ... Amaral apparently had no interest in re-enactments of any kind apart from vetoing an earlier one ... it was Rebelo who tried to organise one through issuing a letter of request and the proposed dates suggested were
28/29 April or 15/16 May.  https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 12, 2020, 10:47:14 AM
And what evidence shows that? I’m yet to see any!
What is the probability of the parents being involved and what do you base that figure on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
Mr McClusky thought he saw Kate McCann; even though she didn't speak English! The couple he saw were investigated and ruled out.

Did the police ever have sight of the lookalike child before the man seen by Mr McCluskey took her to his country of origin?

Apart from asking neighbours what other diligences did they perform ... did they for example check travel arrangements or if the man travelled with one Madeleine McCann lookalike (who might not have been a lookalike) or two?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 10:59:17 AM
Some light bulb moment.  That's how most people carry small children.

Strange then that the McCanns own 'reconstruction' had Smithman's child being carried like firewood.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
Again I ask - why was the Smith family reconstruction deemed more important than one by the Tapas group?

The Smith reconstruction didn’t attract the same publicity that a McCann/Tapas one would. It is worth pointing out that this would not have been only Amaral’s decision to make. For the record I think the decision was wrong. I think the PJ should have physically nailed down the collective Tapas timeline as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 11:31:56 AM
The Smith reconstruction didn’t attract the same publicity that a McCann/Tapas one would. It is worth pointing out that this would not have been only Amaral’s decision to make. For the record I think the decision was wrong. I think the PJ should have physically nailed down the collective Tapas timeline as soon as possible.

With hindsight we know that the group should have been separated and interviewed straight away. So should the Tapas staff. At the time I don't see how that would have been seen as desirable or doable however.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 11:41:42 AM
The Smith reconstruction didn’t attract the same publicity that a McCann/Tapas one would. It is worth pointing out that this would not have been only Amaral’s decision to make. For the record I think the decision was wrong. I think the PJ should have physically nailed down the collective Tapas timeline as soon as possible.

The PJ weren't capable of nailing down anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 11:45:17 AM
With hindsight we know that the group should have been separated and interviewed straight away. So should the Tapas staff. At the time I don't see how that would have been seen as desirable or doable however.

By Whom?  They were interviewed on the next day.  But Amaral had already decided that The McCanns were guilty.

How on earth was Amaral allowed to Coordinate this Case?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Mr McClusky thought he saw Kate McCann; even though she didn't speak English! The couple he saw were investigated and ruled out.

And that sighting happened many miles away and not at the time of the disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 01:57:55 PM
What is the probability of the parents being involved and what do you base that figure on

Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
Strange then that the McCanns own 'reconstruction' had Smithman's child being carried like firewood.

And RH has Smithman carrying a child like Tannerman does.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 12, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
Strange then that the McCanns own 'reconstruction' had Smithman's child being carried like firewood.

The McCann's 'own' reconstruction??   Do you mean the one the Police did for Crimewatch?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 02:07:10 PM
Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.

Or Not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
With hindsight we know that the group should have been separated and interviewed straight away. So should the Tapas staff. At the time I don't see how that would have been seen as desirable or doable however.

I’m not sure why not as we are not talking about large numbers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 12, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.

I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 12, 2020, 02:33:49 PM
I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police

Somehow I don't think they'll be interested in clouding the issue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 02:38:42 PM
Somehow I don't think they'll be interested in clouding the issue.

Tick Tock.  Playing a Blinder, eh what!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 03:07:29 PM
The McCann's 'own' reconstruction??   Do you mean the one the Police did for Crimewatch?

Nope. Crimewatch got it right.
I was talking about the propaganda film that was 'Madeleine was here'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
Excessive propaganda! Tannerman is Smithman  @)(++(*

Tannerman is found but not Smithyboy!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 12, 2020, 04:18:21 PM
You are conflating two seperate arguments. One is whether there was any evidence of abduction. The other is whether there was opprtunity for an abduction.
I’m conflating nothing.  You repeatedly stated that abduction in your view was virtually impossible.  Why do you believe that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
Nope. Crimewatch got it right.
I was talking about the propaganda film that was 'Madeleine was here'.

That's crazy!! They portrayed Smithman as crucial 5 years too late and pretended it was a new breakthrough in the case!! Great e-fit though - I'll grant you that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 08:28:39 PM
Nope. Crimewatch got it right.
I was talking about the propaganda film that was 'Madeleine was here'.

'Madeleine was here' was not made by the McCanns ... it was a Channel 4 documentary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2020, 08:31:56 PM
Their investigators did the reconstruction i.e. their team.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 02:47:14 AM
I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police

They know that already. I was talking about well known statistics. That’s why the OG investigation is flawed. You don’t start from a presumption that there is no family involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 08:55:45 AM
They know that already. I was talking about well known statistics. That’s why the OG investigation is flawed. You don’t start from a presumption that there is no family involvement.

OG examined the evidence in the PJ files and deduced that the McCanns had been ruled out. The Portuguese Supreme Court explained in 2017 that they hadn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
OG examined the evidence in the PJ files and deduced that the McCanns had been ruled out. The Portuguese Supreme Court explained in 2017 that they hadn't.

Exactly!! So OG should have gone back to the possibility of family involvement - even if that's to rule it out. OG was totally flawed from the start.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police

This is from a research article in the BMJ:

Conclusion: Children face the highest risk of homicide by parents and someone they know. Increased investment into the compilation of routine data on child homicide, and the perpetrators of this homicide is imperative for understanding and ultimately reducing child homicide mortality worldwide.

Trial registration number PROSPERO registration number: CRD42015030125.

So OG was flawed from the outset. The parents should have been investigated to rule them out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 09:24:36 AM
They know that already. I was talking about well known statistics. That’s why the OG investigation is flawed. You don’t start from a presumption that there is no family involvement.

Apparently procedure is that you check out the family and anyone else in close contact for elimination purposes.  But according to his book Amaral suspected the parents from day one before any investigation was carried out and never deviated from that. Why don't you think that is devious and flawed when he was subsequently proved to be so wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:08:19 AM
Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.

That is not true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:17:49 AM
This is from a research article in the BMJ:

Conclusion: Children face the highest risk of homicide by parents and someone they know. Increased investment into the compilation of routine data on child homicide, and the perpetrators of this homicide is imperative for understanding and ultimately reducing child homicide mortality worldwide.

Trial registration number PROSPERO registration number: CRD42015030125.

So OG was flawed from the outset. The parents should have been investigated to rule them out.

SY said they looked at the involment of the family..they therefore have looked at the evidence and decided the parents are not involved. what further investigations do you think would be useful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
That's crazy!! They portrayed Smithman as crucial 5 years too late and pretended it was a new breakthrough in the case!! Great e-fit though - I'll grant you that.

Could you expalin why you accept the smith sighting as being totally correct yet dismiss all the sightings of maddie as being suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 10:24:25 AM
SY said they looked at the involment of the family..they therefore have looked at the evidence and decided the parents are not involved. what further investigations do you think would be useful.

Simon Foy was talkiing a load of BS! No police force reviews an old case and rules anything out regardless of what a previous police force has done or not. They look at EVERYTHING with fresh eyes!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:26:30 AM
Simon Foy was talkiing a load of BS! No police force reviews an old case and rules anything out regardless of what a previous police force has done or not. They look at EVERYTHING with fresh eyes!

I would say they have...perhaps you think thta's BS too...but who cares what you think
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:48:26 AM
Simon Foy was talkiing a load of BS! No police force reviews an old case and rules anything out regardless of what a previous police force has done or not. They look at EVERYTHING with fresh eyes!

look at what precisely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
Bungling local Madeleine McCann officers froze me out, says top UK detective who claims 'macho, 1970s culture' of Portuguese police hindered the hunt for suspect
He could have helped while evidence was fresh but his input was unwelcome

On May 7, 2007, Dr Hill – then a Surrey detective superintendent seconded to the UK’s new Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre – flew to Portugal to lend expert help to the hunt for Madeleine.

Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh.

But thanks to systemic dysfunction and suspicion of outside intervention by the Portuguese police team – led by detective Goncalo Amaral, who would be removed from the case and publish a book which made false allegations against Madeleine’s parents – his input was unwelcome.

‘It was fraught from the word go. The detectives were very polite and measured but also suspicious of why we were there and what we were seeking to achieve. I only met Amaral on that first occasion and one further meeting. Clearly he felt he did not need my help.’

Dr Hill said he asked every day for information or a meeting with someone connected to the case, adding: ‘I had to do all the pushing. The meeting would be scheduled then, invariably, cancelled.

‘If I asked about search strategies they would simply tell me they were doing everything possible. If I asked about known sex offenders they would tell me it was all in hand. I was kept at a distance. I could offer advice on predatory sex offenders and hope they would show some interest and engage, but they didn’t.

It was several days before they even told him they were focused on a prime suspect – British expat Robert Murat. Dr Hill offered them advice on interview techniques, which was the only time he believes they ever really listened to him, but Murat proved to be completely innocent.

No other suspects were ever mentioned to him. The McCanns only became suspects, or ‘arguidos’, in September – another indication of how the investigation was run badly from the start.

Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.

‘The job had got away from them very early on and they never recovered. It was too big for them.’

After ten days of passive obstruction, Dr Hill returned to the UK.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Bungling local Madeleine McCann officers froze me out, says top UK detective who claims 'macho, 1970s culture' of Portuguese police hindered the hunt for suspect
He could have helped while evidence was fresh but his input was unwelcome

On May 7, 2007, Dr Hill – then a Surrey detective superintendent seconded to the UK’s new Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre – flew to Portugal to lend expert help to the hunt for Madeleine.

Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh.

But thanks to systemic dysfunction and suspicion of outside intervention by the Portuguese police team – led by detective Goncalo Amaral, who would be removed from the case and publish a book which made false allegations against Madeleine’s parents – his input was unwelcome.

‘It was fraught from the word go. The detectives were very polite and measured but also suspicious of why we were there and what we were seeking to achieve. I only met Amaral on that first occasion and one further meeting. Clearly he felt he did not need my help.’

Dr Hill said he asked every day for information or a meeting with someone connected to the case, adding: ‘I had to do all the pushing. The meeting would be scheduled then, invariably, cancelled.

‘If I asked about search strategies they would simply tell me they were doing everything possible. If I asked about known sex offenders they would tell me it was all in hand. I was kept at a distance. I could offer advice on predatory sex offenders and hope they would show some interest and engage, but they didn’t.

It was several days before they even told him they were focused on a prime suspect – British expat Robert Murat. Dr Hill offered them advice on interview techniques, which was the only time he believes they ever really listened to him, but Murat proved to be completely innocent.

No other suspects were ever mentioned to him. The McCanns only became suspects, or ‘arguidos’, in September – another indication of how the investigation was run badly from the start.

Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.

‘The job had got away from them very early on and they never recovered. It was too big for them.’

After ten days of passive obstruction, Dr Hill returned to the UK.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Sound like an ego who’s had his nose put out of joint.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 11:30:02 AM
Apparently procedure is that you check out the family and anyone else in close contact for elimination purposes.  But according to his book Amaral suspected the parents from day one before any investigation was carried out and never deviated from that. Why don't you think that is devious and flawed when he was subsequently proved to be so wrong.

TOTL pages 15/16

4th May in the morning. Amaral lists the possibilities, but chooses no one of them above the other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Sound like an ego who’s had his nose put out of joint.

That is exactly what I read into it ... the one thing Amaral has in spades is an ego and like a few egocentrics he allowed his to get in the way of functioning efficiently in the day job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 12:01:49 PM
Sound like an ego who’s had his nose put out of joint.

From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 12:41:54 PM
From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.

He was on the ground and had a professional opinion of his experience.  Which was borne out by the back to front way Amaral conducted the case ...
Snip
Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

I think he makes a pretty powerful indictment of the way Madeleine's case was conducted and obviously as a Detective Superintendent had more than clue what he was talking about something Amaral could never be accused of.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 12:52:10 PM
SY said they looked at the involment of the family..they therefore have looked at the evidence and decided the parents are not involved. what further investigations do you think would be useful.

Have you a cite for that please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 12:53:14 PM
Could you expalin why you accept the smith sighting as being totally correct yet dismiss all the sightings of maddie as being suspect.

Which sightings of Maddie?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 12:59:08 PM

He was on the ground and had a professional opinion of his experience.  Which was borne out by the back to front way Amaral conducted the case ...
Snip
Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

I think he makes a pretty powerful indictment of the way Madeleine's case was conducted and obviously as a Detective Superintendent had more than clue what he was talking about something Amaral could never be accused of.

The world and his wife had opinions about how the investigation was conducted, despite it being outwith their areas of expertise or responsibility. None of the British police officers had the right to advise the PJ except Mark Harrison and Martin Grime, whose input was requested.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 13, 2020, 01:13:16 PM
Have you a cite for that please?

I doubt it,Rowley pointed out the didn't, saying it was dealt with in the initial investigation,you know the one led by Amaral,whose integrity is called into question, yet its a ringing endorsement by SY, now did he get it right  and thats why they can't pin the tail on any old donkey.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 01:30:53 PM

He was on the ground and had a professional opinion of his experience.  Which was borne out by the back to front way Amaral conducted the case ...
Snip
Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

I think he makes a pretty powerful indictment of the way Madeleine's case was conducted and obviously as a Detective Superintendent had more than clue what he was talking about something Amaral could never be accused of.

I very much doubt they ruled anybody out at the start with no evidence of a break-in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Which sightings of Maddie?

Starting with the Tanner sighting ... there are quite a few ... then you know that already don't you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 01:32:48 PM
From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 01:33:40 PM
Starting with the Tanner sighting ... there are quite a few ... then you know that already don't you.

The Tanner sighting is not thought to have been Madeleine by OG.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 01:40:49 PM
The world and his wife had opinions about how the investigation was conducted, despite it being outwith their areas of expertise or responsibility. None of the British police officers had the right to advise the PJ except Mark Harrison and Martin Grime, whose input was requested.
Snip
Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Found there was no problem with his offer of using his expertise when the Judicial police had Robert Murat in their sights.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 02:39:04 PM
Snip
Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Found there wan no problem with his offer of using his expertise when the Judicial police had Robert Murat in their sights.

To produce a profile of him. I don't think he was asked to do so by the PJ; the first mention of Murat was made by a British journalist to Leicestershire Police on 6th May. Then an anonymous tip off was received by the PJ on 11th May.
Immediately the PJ started to gather information about him.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 03:07:22 PM
From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.
He sounds eminently qualified to offer advice re: a missing child to a police force out of its depth imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 03:42:18 PM
He sounds eminently qualified to offer advice re: a missing child to a police force out of its depth imo.

He has proven himself NOT to be an expert on this case. He claims the apartment was locked, 16 friends, 8 couples? He needs a lot of help! You cannot clear any theory with no evidence of a break-in. He thought it was locked and there was evidence of a break-in because he is ignorant!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 03:49:13 PM
He has proven himself NOT to be an expert on this case. He claims the apartment was locked, 16 friends, 8 couples? He needs a lot of help! You cannot clear any theory with no evidence of a break-in. He thought it was locked and there was evidence of a break-in because he is ignorant!
He wasn’t offering advice on the number of couples or whether the door was locked or not, I expect he credited the PJ with enough knowledge to be able to work out the basics, he was offering more specialised advice concerning behaviour analysis and child exploitation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 03:59:37 PM
Maybe he should have found this German being in CEOP as they were supposed to be looking for possible child abuse suspects in the area? They concentrated on Murat and missed him too!  A nanny claims the PJ showed the German's photo only days after the disappearance so they were investigating him as a possible suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 04:04:03 PM
Maybe he should have found this German being in CEOP as they were supposed to be looking for possible child abuse suspects in the area? They concentrated on Murat and missed him too!  A nanny claims the PJ showed the German's photo only days after the disappearance so they were investigating him as a possible suspect.
I wasn’t aware that UK police were allowed to conduct their own separate investigations on PT soil in 2007...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 07:55:04 PM
Starting with the Tanner sighting ... there are quite a few ... then you know that already don't you.

No... Tannerman has been accounted for apparently. That only leaves Smithman for a possible sighting of MM on the day she was reported missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
He wasn’t offering advice on the number of couples or whether the door was locked or not, I expect he credited the PJ with enough knowledge to be able to work out the basics, he was offering more specialised advice concerning behaviour analysis and child exploitation.

He was just another uninvited, unneeded foreign policeman who thought he knew better than the PJ. He wasn't there to tell them how to do their jobs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 13, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
No... Tannerman has been accounted for apparently. That only leaves Smithman for a possible sighting of MM on the day she was reported missing.
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 13, 2020, 08:11:19 PM
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.

If I've got the direction of travel correct, they would be converging
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 13, 2020, 08:13:59 PM
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.

Redwood never mentioned who Tanner saw,but what can be determined is whoever Redwood found obviously never saw any thing suspicious,thats why the timeline moved onto to a person carrying a child whose description was close to that of Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 08:25:59 PM
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.

Gerry and Jez must be blind to not notice all these people crossing the road @)(++(*

How Tannerman can morph from Murat to a hippy Beatle is a more interesting question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 13, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
If I've got the direction of travel correct, they would be converging
Totman, apparently, was walking away from block 5. I still do not understand how he was going towards the night crèche at the time? How would he meet with someone, possibly with Madeleine, during that time? In my opinion, it is possible that whoever took Madeleine was aware of all the movements that night. Tanner could have been witnessing what she thought to be Madeleine carried by a man, a few steps behind Totman.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 13, 2020, 08:54:49 PM
He was just another uninvited, unneeded foreign policeman who thought he knew better than the PJ. He wasn't there to tell them how to do their jobs.
IMO, they obviously needed telling but wouldn’t be told.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 08:58:20 PM
The Tanner sighting is not thought to have been Madeleine by OG.


and he looks nothing like the tanner photo fit either...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 09:09:27 PM
Redwood never mentioned who Tanner saw,but what can be determined is whoever Redwood found obviously never saw any thing suspicious,thats why the timeline moved onto to a person carrying a child whose description was close to that of Madeleine McCann.


The time line has always been the  knot in the rope that no one can seem to undo.
IT is THE most important piece of information which really needs to be looked at and explained in detail.

The German suspect will have a savvy lawyer who will tear that apart in no time at all. He/She may insist on a reconstruction to prove his client had an alibi to cover certain times.

I am convinced and of the opinion the Tapas crew, being cowards, were Pretending to have half hour checks to save there necks.

MBM could have been murdered in the apartment by the German suspect and left there in a state, how would her parents explain this disaster  as Gerry Described it?

Phone the police and say their daughter had been raped and murdered while they were having dinner with free drinks?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 09:41:54 PM
That is not true

It is according to BMJ research.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:03:01 PM
Totman, apparently, was walking away from block 5. I still do not understand how he was going towards the night crèche at the time? How would he meet with someone, possibly with Madeleine, during that time? In my opinion, it is possible that whoever took Madeleine was aware of all the movements that night. Tanner could have been witnessing what she thought to be Madeleine carried by a man, a few steps behind Totman.

Is that a serious suggestion? That two men of similar description were carrying a young girl in pyjamas in the same manner and one "a few steps behind" the other!!!  &%%6
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:20:21 PM
It is according to BMJ research.

could you tell me where in the BMJ reserach it says if Maddie is dead its most likely involves her family or friends...thats absolute BS....You dont understand the application of statistics
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
Is that a serious suggestion? That two men of similar description were carrying a young girl in pyjamas in the same manner and one "a few steps behind" the other!!!  &%%6

i remeber posting to sil if he wanted to do something useful he should pop into Luz one night and see how many men he saw carrying a child between 9 and 10 oclock. i still think that would have been a useful exercise
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:33:47 PM
could you tell me where in the BMJ reserach it says if Maddie is dead its most likely involves her family or friends...thats absolute BS....You dont understand the application of statistics

Go back and read my post. It was a generalisation. Statistically parents or close family are the most likely ones involved with child homicide or kidnap. I didn't then claim that as evidence in this case. You've created a straw man. I quoted the BMJ research to say any investigation into a missing child should not, from the outset, rule out family involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Go back and read my post. It was a generalisation. Statistically parents or close family are the most likely ones involved with child homicide or kidnap. I didn't then claim that as evidence in this case. You've created a straw man. I quoted the BMJ research to say any investigation into a missing child should not, from the outset, rule out family involvement.

of course it should I totally agree. ...and the McCanns have been ruled out.

so what is the probability in your opinion taht the McCanns are involved in  a death and cover up...simple question..but you don't have an answer
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:40:42 PM
of course it should I totally agree. ...and the McCanns have been ruled out.

so what is the probability in your opinion taht the McCanns are involved in  a death and cover up...simple question..but you don't have an answer

Who ruled them out? I asked you for a cite some time ago now. Thanks Dave.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 10:43:19 PM
Who ruled them out? I asked you for a cite some time ago now. Thanks Dave.

SY....so what is the probablity of the mcanns being involved ..in your opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:50:09 PM
SY....so what is the probablity of the mcanns being involved ..in your opinion

Please provide a link with some context. On what basis do SY say this? Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 13, 2020, 11:01:07 PM
Please provide a link with some context. On what basis do SY say this? Thanks.

Simon Foy...Redwood...Rowley...im sure you are aware of what they all said but you don't accept it. Believe whay you want..its of no real importance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 12:35:12 AM
Simon Foy...Redwood...Rowley...im sure you are aware of what they all said but you don't accept it. Believe whay you want..its of no real importance

I'm genuinely not aware of how SY investigated parental involvement and why they ruled it out. I've read here on this forum that they stated the PJ investigated it so they didn't need to. Hopefully you can show their investigation was far more thorough?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 12:42:03 AM
I'm genuinely not aware of how SY investigated parental involvement and why they ruled it out. I've read here on this forum that they stated the PJ investigated it so they didn't need to. Hopefully you can show their investigation was far more thorough?

Then unfortunately your hopes are going to be dashed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 12:48:20 AM
The topic is ... Goncalo Amaral  Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 08:45:57 AM
The topic is ... Goncalo Amaral  Thank you

Well to get back on topic it very much looks to me that Amaral had not ruled out parental involvement from early in the investigation, but as you pointed out elsewhere the UK Police were briefing civil servants on their complete assurance that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction" (quote from CM, January 2008). IMO Amaral is acting professionally and our own Police are seen to act in a prejudicial manner from the outset, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 09:07:12 AM
Well to get back on topic it very much looks to me that Amaral had not ruled out parental involvement from early in the investigation, but as you pointed out elsewhere the UK Police were briefing civil servants on their complete assurance that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction" (quote from CM, January 2008). IMO Amaral is acting professionally and our own Police are seen to act in a prejudicial manner from the outset, imo.

The Portuguese didn't share your opinion of Amaral's 'professionalism' when they sacked him from Madeleine's case then gave him a fine and a suspended prison sentence when they found him guilty of perjury.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 09:12:23 AM
Well to get back on topic it very much looks to me that Amaral had not ruled out parental involvement from early in the investigation, but as you pointed out elsewhere the UK Police were briefing civil servants on their complete assurance that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction" (quote from CM, January 2008). IMO Amaral is acting professionally and our own Police are seen to act in a prejudicial manner from the outset, imo.
Amaral’s profession is a TV talking head an author of a very flawed book, in what way is he acting professionally?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 09:28:42 AM
The Portuguese didn't share your opinion of Amaral's 'professionalism' when they sacked him from Madeleine's case then gave him a fine and a suspended prison sentence when they found him guilty of perjury.

Just to qualify what I meant. Amaral was acting professionally in the MM case specifically when (unlike the UK Police and CEOP) he did not rule out parental responsibility in May 2007.

The perjury conviction wasn't in relation to the MM case as far as I know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 09:41:49 AM
Just to qualify what I meant. Amaral was acting professionally in the MM case specifically when (unlike the UK Police and CEOP) he did not rule out parental responsibility in May 2007.

The perjury conviction wasn't in relation to the MM case as far as I know.

It was related to The Case of another Missing Child in proximity to Praia Da Luz.

Amaral should never have Coordinated The McCann Case.  That wasn't very professional either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 10:50:52 AM
It was related to The Case of another Missing Child in proximity to Praia Da Luz.

Amaral should never have Coordinated The McCann Case.  That wasn't very professional either.

That's a fair point. But if he's given the case to investigate then he still needs to act professionally..... and perjury in one case doesn't mean we can safely transfer that to every case he works on. If that was the case he should have been sacked. However, that said I don't have much faith in the Police in either country (or Germany!!)

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 11:14:29 AM
That's a fair point. But if he's given the case to investigate then he still needs to act professionally..... and perjury in one case doesn't mean we can safely transfer that to every case he works on. If that was the case he should have been sacked. However, that said I don't have much faith in the Police in either country (or Germany!!)

Amaral volunteered, despite being due to go on holiday the next day.  Sofia Leal was none too pleased about that.

PS.  Amaral was sacked.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 11:31:55 AM
Amaral volunteered, despite being due to go on holiday the next day.  Sofia Leal was none too pleased about that.

PS.  Amaral was sacked.

Sacked after the perjury case I mean so he couldn't volunteer for this one.... plus his superior doesn't need to take him up on his offer to investigate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
Sacked after the perjury case I mean so he couldn't volunteer for this one.... plus his superior doesn't need to take him up on his offer to investigate.

Exactly.  Lack of professionalism all round.  The whole Investigation was a mess from start to finish.  Mainly due to Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 14, 2020, 12:30:46 PM

and he looks nothing like the tanner photo fit either...

April 2007: He [Brückner] moves out of a farmhouse and into a campervan now linked to the crime. The farmhouse is cleaned and a bag of wigs and 'exotic clothes' is found.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394855/Christian-Brueckner-linked-FOURTH-unsolved-case.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 14, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
April 2007: He [Brückner] moves out of a farmhouse and into a campervan now linked to the crime. The farmhouse is cleaned and a bag of wigs and 'exotic clothes' is found.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394855/Christian-Brueckner-linked-FOURTH-unsolved-case.html

Is that supposed to be incriminating ?

He had girlfriends - maybe they liked to indulge in a little dressing up  8(0(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
Sacked after the perjury case I mean so he couldn't volunteer for this one.... plus his superior doesn't need to take him up on his offer to investigate.

I think you need to read up on the timeline of this case. Amaral had retired from the PJ long before the Cipriano case came to court and he wasn’t sacked, he was taken off of the case. It’s a subtle but important difference.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Is that supposed to be incriminating ?

He had girlfriends - maybe they liked to indulge in a little dressing up  8(0(*

A close cropped blonde man could look entirely different if wearing a dark wig or even one with dreadlocks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 14, 2020, 01:18:00 PM
A close cropped blonde man could look entirely different if wearing a dark wig or even one with dreadlocks.

Of course, but it's all speculation with no substance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 01:45:39 PM
A close cropped blonde man could look entirely different if wearing a dark wig or even one with dreadlocks.

Or wearing stacked shoes, or makeup made to look like a horrendous scar or....or....or.......but there’s no evidence of any of them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
Of course, but it's all speculation with no substance

No it is not speculation.  Unless you think a man with a close cropped blonde head would look exactly the same when wearing a dark coloured wig.
I know he would look different particularly in a poor light.  The effect could be quite startling if the blonde was deeply tanned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
No it is not speculation.  Unless you think a man with a close cropped blonde head would look exactly the same when wearing a dark coloured wig.
I know he would look different particularly in a poor light.  The effect could be quite startling if the blonde was deeply tanned.

Is there an evidence that that happened ? If not it’s speculation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 04:45:12 PM
Exactly.  Lack of professionalism all round.  The whole Investigation was a mess from start to finish.  Mainly due to Amaral.

But the UK response was also totally flawed from the outset as revealed by CM and his "private briefings" of May 2007. Just blaming Amaral when the UK Police and CEOP had a flawed approach, imo, is unfair.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 04:52:04 PM
But the UK response was also totally flawed from the outset as revealed by CM and his "private briefings" of May 2007. Just blaming Amaral when the UK Police and CEOP had a flawed approach, imo, is unfair.

It wasn't The UKs Case.  As we have been repeatedly reminded.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 14, 2020, 04:59:45 PM
It wasn't The UKs Case.  As we have been repeatedly reminded.

Then the UK shouldn't have interfered, acting like a colonial power.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/01/british-police-competition-harmed-madeleine-mccann-investigation-home-office-report
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 05:07:19 PM
Then the UK shouldn't have interfered, acting like a colonial power.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/01/british-police-competition-harmed-madeleine-mccann-investigation-home-office-report

A British Child Missing Abroad.  Her Passport alone gives her the right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 14, 2020, 05:21:39 PM
Is that supposed to be incriminating ?

He had girlfriends - maybe they liked to indulge in a little dressing up  8(0(*

It said the wigs were found in April 2007 after he moved out which is prior to the disappearance. 

Smithman wasn't wearing a wig unless he is bald  8(0(*

Latest: He wore a Wig! Police seek Kojak being the Abductor of Maddie!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 14, 2020, 05:39:42 PM
Amaral volunteered, despite being due to go on holiday the next day.  Sofia Leal was none too pleased about that.

PS.  Amaral was sacked.

Going on holiday the next day … and Amaral volunteered ?   That doesn't make sense
What was it about the case that made Amaral so keen to direct it?

He was a drugs trafficking cop, wasn't he ?
Why would he so want to run another missing child/abducted child case?
After all, he got a criminal record because of his perjury in the Joana Cipriano case.

 *%6^
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 05:55:58 PM
Going on holiday the next day … and Amaral volunteered ?   That doesn't make sense
What was it about the case that made Amaral so keen to direct it?

He was a drugs trafficking cop, wasn't he ?
Why would he so want to run another missing child/abducted child case?
After all, he got a criminal record because of his perjury in the Joana Cipriano case.

 *%6^

He thought it would get him out of trouble if he could prove that Kate done it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 14, 2020, 05:58:44 PM
He thought it would get him out of trouble if he could prove that Kate done it.

 $65*

Nothing more that you can think of ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 06:46:19 PM
Going on holiday the next day … and Amaral volunteered ?   That doesn't make sense
What was it about the case that made Amaral so keen to direct it?

He was a drugs trafficking cop, wasn't he ?
Why would he so want to run another missing child/abducted child case?
After all, he got a criminal record because of his perjury in the Joana Cipriano case.

 *%6^

Yeah but he was only made an arguido for what resulted in his criminal record on the 4th May although he must have known that was going to happen and what the likely outcome would be.

I think he saw an opportunity to circumvent that chain of events by becoming the great detective who having nailed another murdering mother would be bombproof re the perjury charge.

Kate McCann couldn't be tortured into confessing as Leonor Cipriano was and the fact Kate didn't play ball and prevented him having another notch on his gun plus a clean record would account for the pathological hatred which I think inspired him to write his hate filled book about her.

That is only one explanation ... I think there could well be others or a combination of others.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 06:56:10 PM
Yeah but he was only made an arguido for what resulted in his criminal record on the 4th May although he must have known that was going to happen and what the likely outcome would be.

I think he saw an opportunity to circumvent that chain of events by becoming the great detective who having nailed another murdering mother would be bombproof re the perjury charge.

Kate McCann couldn't be tortured into confessing as Leonor Cipriano was and the fact Kate didn't play ball and prevented him having another notch on his gun plus a clean record would account for the pathological hatred which I think inspired him to write his hate filled book about her.

That is only one explanation ... I think there could well be others or a combination of others.

Did he not threaten to abduct his girlfriend's child in that Phone Call, after she dumped him?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 14, 2020, 06:59:00 PM
Yeah but he was only made an arguido for what resulted in his criminal record on the 4th May although he must have known that was going to happen and what the likely outcome would be.

I think he saw an opportunity to circumvent that chain of events by becoming the great detective who having nailed another murdering mother would be bombproof re the perjury charge.

Kate McCann couldn't be tortured into confessing as Leonor Cipriano was and the fact Kate didn't play ball and prevented him having another notch on his gun plus a clean record would account for the pathological hatred which I think inspired him to write his hate filled book about her.

That is only one explanation ... I think there could well be others or a combination of others.

Wow, what a hate-filled post based on opinion IMO.B

GA has never come across to me as hating either g or kmcc quite the opposite.

Perhaps he was a dedicated cop taking on the case - as he came across wanting only the truth

Supprised you said another murdering mother - I didn't realize you thought  LC was guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 07:06:31 PM
Wow, what a hate-filled post based on opinion IMO.B

GA has never come across to me as hating either g or kmcc quite the opposite.

Perhaps he was a dedicated cop taking on the case - as he came across wanting only the truth

Supprised you said another murdering mother - I didn't realize you thought  LC was guilty
The opposite of hate is love.  You think Amaral loved the McCanns?  That’s a novel opinion!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 14, 2020, 07:21:53 PM
The opposite of hate is love.  You think Amaral loved the McCanns?  That’s a novel opinion!

It was B who mentioned hate, not me.

Don't they say though there is a very thin line between love and hate  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
I will never understand the visceral hatred displayed towards Amaral by supporters. It really is quite bizarre.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 07:26:37 PM
It was B who mentioned hate, not me.

Don't they say though there is a very thin line between love and hate  @)(++(*

When you are simply doing your job personal feelings don’t come into it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 14, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
It was B who mentioned hate, not me.

Don't they say though there is a very thin line between love and hate  @)(++(*
It was you who said that Amaral didn’t hate the McCanns but quite the reverse.  So what did you mean exactly? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
Did he not threaten to abduct his girlfriend's child in that Phone Call, after she dumped him?
I believe he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
I believe he did.

‘I know you will have a source for that or else you would not have posted it; please share with the forum.’ Brietta

I’d be obliged if you’d hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others and provide a source for your claim.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 01:33:03 AM
‘I know you will have a source for that or else you would not have posted it; please share with the forum.’ Brietta

I’d be obliged if you’d hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others and provide a source for your claim.

Bumped just in case Brietta hadn’t noticed my post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 15, 2020, 02:27:44 AM

Did he not threaten to abduct his girlfriend's child in that Phone Call, after she dumped him?

I believe he did.

I remember it too; it was a long time ago. 

Didn't Amaral also  threaten her husband/ partner with a Golden Bullet?  I have got the right man, haven't I ?   They were clients of Lawyer Marcos Aragao Corriera IIRC


Can't find anything on the internet anymore.
Maybe its in the "Way back machine" ?  Or maybe someone has vanished it to protect Amaral?



Of course Marcos Correia himself was threatened by someone.   He found the shells of empty bullets on his first floor balcony.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 15, 2020, 03:04:06 AM
‘I know you will have a source for that or else you would not have posted it; please share with the forum.’ Brietta

I’d be obliged if you’d hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others and provide a source for your claim.

You can google "Ana Bras e Goncalo Amaral" for some links.
I am unable to find links to any denials of the accusations against Amaral by either him or his associates; nor can I find details of any libel proceedings issued by against anyone relating to these accusations. Perhaps you can?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 15, 2020, 07:28:58 AM
In any case no cites required for a statement of belief.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 15, 2020, 11:34:42 AM
It was you who said that Amaral didn’t hate the McCanns but quite the reverse.  So what did you mean exactly?

Well, obviously I believe he didn't hate them - what more can I say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
You can google "Ana Bras e Goncalo Amaral" for some links.
I am unable to find links to any denials of the accusations against Amaral by either him or his associates; nor can I find details of any libel proceedings issued by against anyone relating to these accusations. Perhaps you can?

Pardon ?

I can’t find  links to any denials by David Payne or any of his associates to the rumours surrounding him or indeed any libel proceedings relating to those accusations. Does that mean that they’re true ?

It is forum etiquette that when you make a claim you substantiate that claim with evidence, especially such a heinous accusation .....Brietta herself is quite strict on that. It is not for the reader find the evidence.

So again, Brietta could you please substantiate your claim re: Amaral or withdraw it ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:02:51 PM
Pardon ?

I can’t find  links to any denials by David Payne or any of his associates to the rumours surrounding him or indeed any libel proceedings relating to those accusations. Does that mean that they’re true ?

It is forum etiquette that when you make a claim you substantiate that claim with evidence, especially such a heinous accusation .....Brietta herself is quite strict on that. It is not for the reader find the evidence.

So again, Brietta could you please substantiate your claim re: Amaral or withdraw it ?

You mean you never saw or read the transcript of the infamous phone call?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:06:47 PM
You mean you never saw or read the transcript of the infamous phone call?

No, not that I remember.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
No, not that I remember.

Oh well, never mind.  It can't have happened then.  Or reports of Sofia dumping Goncalo's clothes in his nearest drinking den.  And then having dinner with the girlfriend's husband.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:16:00 PM
Oh well, never mind.  It can't have happened then.  Or reports of Sofia dumping Goncalo's clothes in his nearest drinking den.  And then having dinner with the girlfriend's husband.

I’m not really interested in Amaral’s personal life. I’m interested in Brietta substantiating her claim, just as she asks others to do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:20:34 PM
I’m not really interested in Amaral’s personal life. I’m interested in Brietta substantiating her claim, just as she asks others to do.

Who often don't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:24:43 PM
Who often don't.

And ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 15, 2020, 12:32:10 PM
Moderators should lead by example - IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:32:54 PM
And ?

What was it that Brietta didn't provide a Cite for this time?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:36:56 PM
What was it that Brietta didn't provide a Cite for this time?

You already know so not sure why you’re asking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:41:54 PM
You already know so not sure why you’re asking.

Ah Yes.  Brietta said, "I believe he did."  This is an Opinion.

I was the one who brought up the subject, to which I added a Question Mark.

But since no one wants to believe this, having seen neither sight nor sound, then what is the problem?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:47:33 PM
Ah Yes.  Brietta said, "I believe he did."  This is an Opinion.

I was the one who brought up the subject, to which I added a Question Mark.

But since no one wants to believe this, having seen neither sight nor sound, then what is the problem?

The problem is you and Brietta made an accusation with no substantive evidence.....but hey, if that’s the way the forum works now no problem.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:52:16 PM
The problem is you and Brietta made an accusation with no substantive evidence.....but hey, if that’s the way the forum works now no problem.

Misty provided the means to a Cite.  And it did happen.  But God forbid that Amaral threatened to abduct a child.  That might raise a few worries.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 15, 2020, 01:00:20 PM
Misty provided the means to a Cite.  And it did happen.  But God forbid that Amaral threatened to abduct a child.  That might raise a few worries.

Yes, I wonder why the police aren't suspecting Amaral of abducting Maddie & all those assaults on white british girls.

Amaral has dark hair, a tan & a pot belly, a bit like Christian Brueckner hasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 01:02:51 PM
Misty provided the means to a Cite.  And it did happen.  But God forbid that Amaral threatened to abduct a child.  That might raise a few worries.

The cite should have been produced.

TBH Eleanor most of the time this sort of forum minutiae doesn’t bother me but when a moderator time and again only asks members who are sceptical of the parent’s narrative for cites, and often in a rude manner, then it is only fair that they hold themselves to the same standard.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Yes, I wonder why the police aren't suspecting Amaral of abducting Maddie & all those assaults on white british girls.

Amaral has dark hair, a tan & a pot belly, a bit like Christian Brueckner hasn't.

You said it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 15, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
You said it.

How very observant of you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 12:07:48 AM
I remember it too; it was a long time ago. 

Didn't Amaral also  threaten her husband/ partner with a Golden Bullet?  I have got the right man, haven't I ?   They were clients of Lawyer Marcos Aragao Corriera IIRC


Can't find anything on the internet anymore.
Maybe its in the "Way back machine" ?  Or maybe someone has vanished it to protect Amaral?



Of course Marcos Correia himself was threatened by someone.   He found the shells of empty bullets on his first floor balcony.

We don't actually know who threw those shells on to the balcony of Correias first floor flat, but Amaral was at loggerheads with Marcos, who had succeeded in Court in getting Amaral sentenced for Perjury.   18 months wasn't it?

Furthermore Marcos Correia beat Amaral in another Court when Amaral tried to sue him.  My bet is that Amaral must have hated Marcos, but I realise that doesn't mean that Amaral threw the shells onto Marcoses balcony, does it?


Then Amaral (a senior Police Officer) stood by and watched as his friends tried to beat Marcos up after/during Amarals big birthday bash.  Marcos, a tall and very well built man, was locked in the car enjoying the view (sunset?) over the harbour and Amarals mates  tried to pull him out thru the window.  Top cop Amaral just looked on and did nothing.  Marcos reported this to the Police, but it seems that he must have decided against proceeding

Wasn't that the birthday bash when Amaral started wearing a diamond earing?    %#&%%5
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 12:11:34 AM
I’m not really interested in Amaral’s personal life. I’m interested in Brietta substantiating her claim, just as she asks others to do.

Eleanor and I have substantiated it.  It was common knowledge, but like everything else it probably has been wiped from the internet, IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 12:18:40 AM
Eleanor and I have substantiated it.  It was common knowledge, but like everything else it probably has been wiped from the internet, IMO

Without evidence it has not been substantiated. Those are the forum rules.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 01:12:37 AM
Without evidence it has not been substantiated. Those are the forum rules.

Now Faith, with the best will in the world, since when have you been a slave to forum rules?

I think there are enough people who will substantiate it personally, if needed.  Everybody on the supporters side saw it and there was quite a bit of discussion over it.

And didn't Misty substantiate it anyhow?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 01:28:46 AM
Now Faith, with the best will in the world, since when have you been a slave to forum rules?

I think there are enough people who will substantiate it personally, if needed.  Everybody on the supporters side saw it and there was quite a bit of discussion over it.

And didn't Misty substantiate it anyhow?

You are right Sadie I’m not a slave to forum rules but the moderator who jointly claimed the event occurred is....and she should at least hold herself to the same standard as she holds other members.

And no misty didn’t substantiate it, she basically said google it.

Until  a link is posted the claim is simply that, a claim with no substance. TBH with so many supporters seeing it I’m surprised not one of you has a link.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 02:39:40 AM
You are right Sadie I’m not a slave to forum rules but the moderator who jointly claimed the event occurred is....and she should at least hold herself to the same standard as she holds other members.

And no misty didn’t substantiate it, she basically said google it.

Until  a link is posted the claim is simply that, a claim with no substance. TBH with so many supporters seeing it I’m surprised not one of you has a link.

Well this is probably the reason that Brietta is having problems substantiating it.  From our very own forum, seven years ago by the amazing poster DCI.  Thread = MORALS


Re: MORALS

« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2013, 05:59:41 PM »





Quote from: stephen25000 on September 15, 2013, 05:42:22 PM

Quote
Yet again, your magical mystery abduction with no proof 8((()*/

DCI
Quote
'One of them, yes. Sofia was also knocking her husband off. I take it you haven't heard about the golden bullet, Amaral threatened to put between this mans eyes? Or Sofia throwing his clothes in a bar doorway, where the manager asked him to leave?'





Scandal of Summer - wife of Gonçalo who she said she Loved! (former.inspector of PJ) it put his suitcases at the door !

Dates Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:54:25 +0100

Due to the fact that Mr. Gonçalo Amaral (disgraced former inspector of the PJ of Portimão) arrived at his house, several times, late at night and in the early hours of the morning, his wife («known as the best fellatio of Faro») suspected that he had an affair with another woman, because he came home reeking of another woman's perfume. Sofia, Amaral's wife, packed all his clothes and shoes up and threw them in the door of a cafe', along with a letter she had written, explaining the worse things about her husband, for everybody who wanted to read it.

Sofia was still not satisfied with that, the following night, in the absence of her husband Goncalo, she went to have dinner in a well known restaurant in Portimão, with the husband of the woman she believed had an affair with her husband. After dinner, the two "lovers" went for the night to the Praia da Rocha, hand in hand, kissing and showing a fondness and a very strong intimacy for each other, but, because she was still not satisfied with that, she took that gentleman back to her house, the marital home, in the late hours of the night.

It was the biggest scandal of so well-known public figures among residents in Portimão. But this history does not end here. From that day 2 months ago, the couple (Gonçalo Amaral and his wife) do not rest, their relationship is in turmoil and at an all time low, their marriage is under great strain.

They reached the point that Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, inside a well-known bar at Praia da Rocha,got up approximately 4 times from his table and approached the table of the other couple. Goncalo Amaral, made several threats to the man that went out with his wife Sofia, and 3 or 4 times he violently put his hands around the neck of the same man, insulting the couple numerous times, kicking and punching, until Mr. Gonçalo Amaral was finally asked to leave, by the persons present in the bar who were there to have fun, not to see violent discussions, insults, threats and beatings, just because Mr. Gonçalo Amaral and his wife decided to do a big scandal and scene at the place.

It was a shame! How is it possible that so well-educated people, supposedly with "distinction" and an high professional status, behave in such a derogatory fashion and become embroiled in these kind of scandals! And they cannot leave each others husbands and wives alone... Still have more to come!!.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1796-oh-dear-gonc-has-been-caught-at-it-again-or-gonc-in-public-brawl-after-husband-of-lover-kos-him-in-bar

This is the one Joanna Morais tried to get removed, but then had to admit it was true.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t2106-amarals-been-a-naughty-boy-again[/size]

It seems that the reason that Brietta can no longer find her cite is because neither of the above two websites opens any more.  It seems that sadly the forum has now gone.

I believe that this is probably where we all saw it, but there may be other places.


Maybe it could be picked up on the Wayback Machine.  Dunno.

Rest assured Faith, all the things mentioned in the past couple of pages, or so, of this thread, were well reported and discussed at the time.  About 13 years ago.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 05:18:26 AM
Well this is probably the reason that Brietta is having problems substantiating it.  From our very own forum, seven years ago by the amazing poster DCI.  Thread = MORALS


Re: MORALS

« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2013, 05:59:41 PM »





Quote from: stephen25000 on September 15, 2013, 05:42:22 PM

DCI
Quote
'One of them, yes. Sofia was also knocking her husband off. I take it you haven't heard about the golden bullet, Amaral threatened to put between this mans eyes? Or Sofia throwing his clothes in a bar doorway, where the manager asked him to leave?'





Scandal of Summer - wife of Gonçalo who she said she Loved! (former.inspector of PJ) it put his suitcases at the door !

Dates Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:54:25 +0100

Due to the fact that Mr. Gonçalo Amaral (disgraced former inspector of the PJ of Portimão) arrived at his house, several times, late at night and in the early hours of the morning, his wife («known as the best fellatio of Faro») suspected that he had an affair with another woman, because he came home reeking of another woman's perfume. Sofia, Amaral's wife, packed all his clothes and shoes up and threw them in the door of a cafe', along with a letter she had written, explaining the worse things about her husband, for everybody who wanted to read it.

Sofia was still not satisfied with that, the following night, in the absence of her husband Goncalo, she went to have dinner in a well known restaurant in Portimão, with the husband of the woman she believed had an affair with her husband. After dinner, the two "lovers" went for the night to the Praia da Rocha, hand in hand, kissing and showing a fondness and a very strong intimacy for each other, but, because she was still not satisfied with that, she took that gentleman back to her house, the marital home, in the late hours of the night.

It was the biggest scandal of so well-known public figures among residents in Portimão. But this history does not end here. From that day 2 months ago, the couple (Gonçalo Amaral and his wife) do not rest, their relationship is in turmoil and at an all time low, their marriage is under great strain.

They reached the point that Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, inside a well-known bar at Praia da Rocha,got up approximately 4 times from his table and approached the table of the other couple. Goncalo Amaral, made several threats to the man that went out with his wife Sofia, and 3 or 4 times he violently put his hands around the neck of the same man, insulting the couple numerous times, kicking and punching, until Mr. Gonçalo Amaral was finally asked to leave, by the persons present in the bar who were there to have fun, not to see violent discussions, insults, threats and beatings, just because Mr. Gonçalo Amaral and his wife decided to do a big scandal and scene at the place.

It was a shame! How is it possible that so well-educated people, supposedly with "distinction" and an high professional status, behave in such a derogatory fashion and become embroiled in these kind of scandals! And they cannot leave each others husbands and wives alone... Still have more to come!!.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1796-oh-dear-gonc-has-been-caught-at-it-again-or-gonc-in-public-brawl-after-husband-of-lover-kos-him-in-bar

This is the one Joanna Morais tried to get removed, but then had to admit it was true.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t2106-amarals-been-a-naughty-boy-again[/size]

It seems that the reason that Brietta can no longer find her cite is because neither of the above two websites opens any more.  It seems that sadly the forum has now gone.

I believe that this is probably where we all saw it, but there may be other places.


Maybe it could be picked up on the Wayback Machine.  Dunno.

Rest assured Faith, all the things mentioned in the past couple of pages, or so, of this thread, were well reported and discussed at the time.  About 13 years ago.

The fact is, no substantiation or cite was required for a sentence beginning, "I believe ..."

I think Faith is just attention seeking because I have not been responding to her posts and have no intention of doing so. 
At one time there was a lot on the internet about the "Golden Bullet" tape.  With no less an Amaral apologist than Morais substantiating the existence and content of the audio tape in her efforts to suppress it. DCI confirms that in her post.  I'm sure there must be screen grabs in existence because I think her stout defence will have been sanitised from her blog just as the tape and transcript has been from many internet sources.
And no ... I do not have a cite for that which is no longer there.

Steel Magnolia was kind enough to protest about it and record a heavily edited version to criticise it.  So although it may no longer be linked to we have two critical sources indicating it was there at one time.
Snip
Dr Amaral embarked on a vindictive vendetta against the couple, including harassing, threatening and menacing telephone calls.

The couple installed a recorder to capture Amaral's diatribes. There was no entrapment here, The couple did not invite Amaral to phone them, but they had the equipment to record his vituperative outpourings in the event that he did. At least one call was captured on tape.

In this phone call, as his justification for his affair with the other man's wife, Dr Amaral used all the base terms of promiscuity, moral vices and misogyny to describe Ms Bras, and threatened Mr Arauja with a 'golden bullet'.
http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/06/libel-from-blog-promoted-by-mccanns-on.html

Morais and Steel Magnolia confirm is that there is a tape and there used to be a link to it and it could be listened to - but no longer - on the internet.
Some of it said ... "What Amaral also says towards Ana is: "Eu faço-te a folha quando eu quiser", in English, "I sign your papers when I wish".
In Portugal, "fazer a folha" means to harm someone by illegal methods.
This phrase on tape may very well be used as proof that Goncalo Amaral's authenticity of the allegations towards Ana and her husband that Amaral has also threatened them, with planting drugs in their car, in order to send them to jail.
Apparently this is a good example of "fazer a folha" to someone.
They most of all fear that something bad will happen to their daughter, that she will be abducted or something else and that it would be made to look like they had been responsible for it.
People need to remember that this couple have had the strength and courage to report all of this to the PJ and the local police and to the Portuguese attorney general on several occasions and that they are literally living in fear of what Amaral may have done to them! The more people that know this, the less likely it is that anything will happen to them as it would be absolutely foolhardy to do this now, as we all know about the threats and intimidation and so do the Portuguese police and the Portuguese attorney general.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 08:23:44 AM

I think that about says it all on the subject of Amaral's threatening phone call.

Thanks to those who finally found the proof.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:03:40 AM
The fact is, no substantiation or cite was required for a sentence beginning, "I believe ..."

I think Faith is just attention seeking because I have not been responding to her posts and have no intention of doing so. 
At one time there was a lot on the internet about the "Golden Bullet" tape.  With no less an Amaral apologist than Morais substantiating the existence and content of the audio tape in her efforts to suppress it. DCI confirms that in her post.  I'm sure there must be screen grabs in existence because I think her stout defence will have been sanitised from her blog just as the tape and transcript has been from many internet sources.
And no ... I do not have a cite for that which is no longer there.

Steel Magnolia was kind enough to protest about it and record a heavily edited version to criticise it.  So although it may no longer be linked to we have two critical sources indicating it was there at one time.
Snip
Dr Amaral embarked on a vindictive vendetta against the couple, including harassing, threatening and menacing telephone calls.

The couple installed a recorder to capture Amaral's diatribes. There was no entrapment here, The couple did not invite Amaral to phone them, but they had the equipment to record his vituperative outpourings in the event that he did. At least one call was captured on tape.

In this phone call, as his justification for his affair with the other man's wife, Dr Amaral used all the base terms of promiscuity, moral vices and misogyny to describe Ms Bras, and threatened Mr Arauja with a 'golden bullet'.
http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/06/libel-from-blog-promoted-by-mccanns-on.html

Morais and Steel Magnolia confirm is that there is a tape and there used to be a link to it and it could be listened to - but no longer - on the internet.
Some of it said ... "What Amaral also says towards Ana is: "Eu faço-te a folha quando eu quiser", in English, "I sign your papers when I wish".
In Portugal, "fazer a folha" means to harm someone by illegal methods.
This phrase on tape may very well be used as proof that Goncalo Amaral's authenticity of the allegations towards Ana and her husband that Amaral has also threatened them, with planting drugs in their car, in order to send them to jail.
Apparently this is a good example of "fazer a folha" to someone.
They most of all fear that something bad will happen to their daughter, that she will be abducted or something else and that it would be made to look like they had been responsible for it.
People need to remember that this couple have had the strength and courage to report all of this to the PJ and the local police and to the Portuguese attorney general on several occasions and that they are literally living in fear of what Amaral may have done to them! The more people that know this, the less likely it is that anything will happen to them as it would be absolutely foolhardy to do this now, as we all know about the threats and intimidation and so do the Portuguese police and the Portuguese attorney general.

I am asking you to provide a cite because those are the rules, rules that you yourself deem to be important, nothing more. That you have failed to do so makes you a hypocrite.

As to the second hand hearsay you have posted as evidence, the couple concerned were clients of Correia who, at the time, was in a heated court case with Amaral so their testimony is hardly without bias.

Still you believe as you wish....just don’t expect the rest of us to be so gullible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:05:24 AM
I think that about says it all on the subject of Amaral's threatening phone call.

Thanks to those who finally found the proof.

That’s not proof, it’s second hand gossip at best.

Still I suppose we believe what suits us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2020, 10:14:22 AM
One of the forums who reported this with salacious glee is still there to be read. I don't see any cites, however.
https://justice4mccannfam.forumotion.com/t2614-large-amount-of-money-the-gnr-offier-and-goncalo-amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 17, 2020, 10:24:39 AM
What an offensively coloured site. I lingered not  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 17, 2020, 10:26:35 AM
That’s not proof, it’s second hand gossip at best.

Still I suppose we believe what suits us.

Yeah but yeah,it disses dirt on Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
One of the forums who reported this with salacious glee is still there to be read. I don't see any cites, however.
https://justice4mccannfam.forumotion.com/t2614-large-amount-of-money-the-gnr-offier-and-goncalo-amaral

I am Sabot on that Site.  In case anyone has forgotten.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 17, 2020, 10:38:51 AM
As if.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2020, 10:41:07 AM
I am Sabot on that Site.  In case anyone has forgotten.
.
I noticed one of Vee8's posts survived on there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
.
I noticed one of Vee8's posts survived on there.

Ah Vee8, what an upstanding citizen he turned out to be and Rosiepops, who I think eventually defected via the Daily Record comments section.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 11:54:23 AM
.
I noticed one of Vee8's posts survived on there.

Yes he did have rather a fall from grace and I would not hasten to jump to his defence in the way some have rallied behind the German suspect Amaral's podcast broadcast helped to unmask.
Is there any more news on the funding appeal for his defence ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 17, 2020, 12:02:53 PM
Yes he did have rather a fall from grace and I would not hasten to jump to his defence in the way some have rallied behind the German suspect Amaral's podcast broadcast helped to unmask.
Is there any more news on the funding appeal for his defence ?

Is there any news at all about it? I thought it was one of these forum myths
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 12:07:24 PM
Yes he did have rather a fall from grace and I would not hasten to jump to his defence in the way some have rallied behind the German suspect Amaral's podcast broadcast helped to unmask.
Is there any more news on the funding appeal for his defence ?

It depends on which Paedophile.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 12:13:42 PM
One of the forums who reported this with salacious glee is still there to be read. I don't see any cites, however.
https://justice4mccannfam.forumotion.com/t2614-large-amount-of-money-the-gnr-offier-and-goncalo-amaral

Salacious glee or not I believe that in the interest of free speech or perhaps more to protect Amaral's dishonour this is one of the sites that Joana Morais tried to have shut down.

I think there might even be an account of Amaral losing his defamation case against Marcos Aragão Correia who defended Leonor Cipriano pro bono when her lawyer Jao Grade apparently left her somewhat in the lurch.

Interestingly enough in relation to Ana Bras fears as a result of comment made by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' tape Jao Grade was found in possession ... "Portuguese lawyer João Grade dos Santos found with drugs." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 12:26:34 PM
It depends on which Paedophile.

Yeah ... I could have phrased that a bit better.  The German one of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 12:29:45 PM
It depends on which Paedophile.

Not to most of us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
Salacious glee or not I believe that in the interest of free speech or perhaps more to protect Amaral's dishonour this is one of the sites that Joana Morais tried to have shut down.

I think there might even be an account of Amaral losing his defamation case against Marcos Aragão Correia who defended Leonor Cipriano pro bono when her lawyer Jao Grade apparently left her somewhat in the lurch.

Interestingly enough in relation to Ana Bras fears as a result of comment made by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' tape Jao Grade was found in possession ... "Portuguese lawyer João Grade dos Santos found with drugs." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862


Well, there is one thing for sure -  He certainly stood up to the mccs one of the few who wasn't afraid of them.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 12:37:50 PM
Salacious glee or not I believe that in the interest of free speech or perhaps more to protect Amaral's dishonour this is one of the sites that Joana Morais tried to have shut down.

I think there might even be an account of Amaral losing his defamation case against Marcos Aragão Correia who defended Leonor Cipriano pro bono when her lawyer Jao Grade apparently left her somewhat in the lurch.

Interestingly enough in relation to Ana Bras fears as a result of comment made by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' tape Jao Grade was found in possession ... "Portuguese lawyer João Grade dos Santos found with drugs." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862

Interesting thread here if anyone has a mind to investigate.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.0

It would appear that Correia was not working pro bono but was being paid by Metodo3, the parents private investigators and it would also appear that Grade was sacked when Correia came sniffing and did not leave Cipriano ‘in the lurch’.

What a coincidence eh ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 17, 2020, 01:02:43 PM
Interesting thread here if anyone has a mind to investigate.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.0

It would appear that Correia was not working pro bono but was being paid by Metodo3, the parents private investigators and it would also appear that Grade was sacked when Correia came sniffing and did not leave Cipriano ‘in the lurch’.

What a coincidence eh ?

I'm still waiting to hear who was giving orders to Metodo 3, was it Kennedy or McCann?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2020, 01:16:28 PM
I'm still waiting to hear who was giving orders to Metodo 3, was it Kennedy or McCann?

I expect it was both, as Kennedy paid the retainer and the Madeleine Fund the expenses afaik.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 01:46:32 PM
Interesting thread here if anyone has a mind to investigate.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.0

It would appear that Correia was not working pro bono but was being paid by Metodo3, the parents private investigators and it would also appear that Grade was sacked when Correia came sniffing and did not leave Cipriano ‘in the lurch’.

What a coincidence eh ?

I'd have to hunt way back over that.

I'm not a Correia fan.

From memory, M3 did pay Correia for something or other (the dam search? Or something else as well?) Fair enough.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
I'd have to hunt way back over that.

I'm not a Correia fan.

From memory, M3 did pay Correia for something or other (the dam search? Or something else as well?) Fair enough.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djo%25C3%25A3o%2Bgrade%2Bdos%2Bsantos%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 02:04:35 PM
I'm still waiting to hear who was giving orders to Metodo 3, was it Kennedy or McCann?

I'm waiting for proof that Marcos Aragão Correia's alleged campaign to discredit Gonçalo Amaral is anything other than Amaral's mistaken beliefs against him.   

Amaral did attempt to have Correia declared insane and committed to an asylum.  Bear in mind Amaral's accusations of defamation against him were spectacularly kicked out of court leaving Amaral with a bit of a hole in his pocket as a result.

If Correia is a human rights lawyer is it surprising he defends those who believe their rights have been violated such as Ana Bras of the well known 'Golden Bullet saga.
Snip
Not forgetting that it was a client of Correia who claimed that they were Amaral's mistress and that Amaral had threatened her family during a phonecall which was supplied to several supporter forums by Correia himself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.msg170840#msg170840

It is extraordinary that the suggestion appears to be that people should be denied legal representation unless Amaral approves.  In my opinion the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to who is picking on who.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 02:38:52 PM
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djo%25C3%25A3o%2Bgrade%2Bdos%2Bsantos%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

Thanks, Faith, I do vaguely remember that, but I'm still not impressed (by either of them).

I've always been more interested in what happened to these kids than than in alpha male chest-beating.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
My view is that the Joana case was a total miscarriage of justice. Except for the final time she was invited to give her own account. Others don't agree with me, but I still believe it totally plausible that she repeated what she was told to say... No proof, but my opinion.

There's a sub-forum on here to discuss that - I do have sympathy with the mods / admins trying to keep discussions to their respective places.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 03:25:14 PM
I'm waiting for proof that Marcos Aragão Correia's alleged campaign to discredit Gonçalo Amaral is anything other than Amaral's mistaken beliefs against him.   

Amaral did attempt to have Correia declared insane and committed to an asylum.  Bear in mind Amaral's accusations of defamation against him were spectacularly kicked out of court leaving Amaral with a bit of a hole in his pocket as a result.

If Correia is a human rights lawyer is it surprising he defends those who believe their rights have been violated such as Ana Bras of the well known 'Golden Bullet saga.
Snip
Not forgetting that it was a client of Correia who claimed that they were Amaral's mistress and that Amaral had threatened her family during a phonecall which was supplied to several supporter forums by Correia himself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.msg170840#msg170840

It is extraordinary that the suggestion appears to be that people should be denied legal representation unless Amaral approves.  In my opinion the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to who is picking on who.

‘Spectacularly’.......you do so like your hyperbole Brietta.

So it’s just a coincidence that the very woman Amaral is allegedly having an affair with is also the client of Amaral’s arch enemy and someone who is in the pay of Metodo3, the parent’s private investigators ? Is that really the line you’re trying to push ?

It’s funny how Correia seems to have lost all interest in Cipriano after the Amaral trial was over. Another coincidence no doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 04:09:40 PM
AFAICR wasnt Metodo 3 more interested in discrediting Ga than looking for Maddie

although they were paid from the fund money.




The case of Joana Cipriano holds certain relevance in relation to that of Madeleine McCann’s, as Kate and Gerry’s private investigators, Metodo 3, were actively (as will be shown) seeking to discredit Goncalo Amaral. As we stated in our previous article Strange Behaviours!, It was reported that the final bill for Metodo 3’s work could have been anywhere between £300,000 and £750,000, but what were they doing for nearly two months before the McCanns announced that they had been hired?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 04:43:41 PM
AFAICR wasnt Metodo 3 more interested in discrediting Ga than looking for Maddie

although they were paid from the fund money.




The case of Joana Cipriano holds certain relevance in relation to that of Madeleine McCann’s, as Kate and Gerry’s private investigators, Metodo 3, were actively (as will be shown) seeking to discredit Goncalo Amaral. As we stated in our previous article Strange Behaviours!, It was reported that the final bill for Metodo 3’s work could have been anywhere between £300,000 and £750,000, but what were they doing for nearly two months before the McCanns announced that they had been hired?

What are you quoting from?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 05:17:26 PM
What are you quoting from?

Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 05:48:03 PM
Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/

Not very accurate, is it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 17, 2020, 05:50:20 PM
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djo%25C3%25A3o%2Bgrade%2Bdos%2Bsantos%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

If that report is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't then what we had in essence was a criminal conspiracy to influence the outcome into the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or to put it another way, to pervert the course of justice. Patrick Kennedy later admitted on camera that the involvement of M3 in Portugal was illegal but it didn't stop him from doing it.

I have never understood why the Portuguese police didn't pursue these individuals on conspiracy charges.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 05:51:28 PM
Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/

Do you realise this quote is full of lies... Such as Joannas blood was forensically confirmed from the fridge
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
If that report is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't then what we had was a criminal conspiracy to influence the outcome into the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The whole episode stinks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 17, 2020, 05:57:41 PM
AFAICR wasnt Metodo 3 more interested in discrediting Ga than looking for Maddie

although they were paid from the fund money.




The case of Joana Cipriano holds certain relevance in relation to that of Madeleine McCann’s, as Kate and Gerry’s private investigators, Metodo 3, were actively (as will be shown) seeking to discredit Goncalo Amaral. As we stated in our previous article Strange Behaviours!, It was reported that the final bill for Metodo 3’s work could have been anywhere between £300,000 and £750,000, but what were they doing for nearly two months before the McCanns announced that they had been hired?

I recall Correia speaking on camera after coming out of court and boasting that the target (Goncalo Amaral) had been HIT.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 05:59:21 PM
Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/

Ok, thanks, Kizzy.

I had a quick skim, but what is this 3-post blog based on? It sounds like many of the pro-Amaral Portuguese ones, translated into English at the time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 06:03:52 PM
Do you realise this quote is full of lies... Such as Joannas blood was forensically confirmed from the fridge

This bit?

"The confession was also backed forensically with evidence of Joana’s blood, discovered in the freezer at their home."

No. That simply wasn't the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 06:08:54 PM
I recall Correia speaking on camera after coming out of court and boasting that the target (Goncalo Amaral) had been HIT.

I didn't realise you spoke Portuguese.. Afair... No one was ever able to substantiate that claim
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 06:09:19 PM
I recall Correia speaking on camera after coming out of court and boasting that the target (Goncalo Amaral) had been HIT.

The 'target' was Correia ... he was the one being sued for defamation ... by Amaral ... and Amaral was the one trying to have Correia committed to an asylum asserting that Correia was insane ... Amaral lost the case.

I do love the way the blogs have rewritten history to suit themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 06:10:55 PM
This bit?

"The confession was also backed forensically with evidence of Joana’s blood, discovered in the freezer at their home."

No. That simply wasn't the case.

Also The Incestuous Relationship was deemed Unproven by The Court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 06:16:37 PM
This is the one I remember. seems they replaced original lawyer with Marcos Aragão Correia.

Because João Grade dos Santos - wouldn't play ball it seems



Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral



In the contact made with João Grade dos Santos, the detectives of Método 3 spoke specifically of Gonçalo Amaral: "Obviously they had to speak about him: he was the inspector most talked about at that moment - mocked the lawyer - after all he was at the investigation of the two cases", he concludes. In their approach, the detectives emphasised the advantages of the proposal, "They told me that money for expenses was not a problem", stressed the lawyer.

Leonor Cipriano was defended by João Grade of Santos during all the inquest period but, on the eve of the start of the trial, the client waived the lawyer's services.

Months after having refused the proposal for collaboration with Metodo 3, João Grade dos Santos was replaced by Marcos Aragão Correia, a young lawyer with offices in Madeira [Portuguese Island]. From him it was a known a quick, but symbolic, passage through the continent: Aragão Correia participated in the searches for Madeleine, as a medium [psychic]. The lawyer had visions of the girl's corpse in the dam of the river Arade, in Silves. "The Judiciary Police - recognizes Aragão - completely dismissed these evidences, though I was a lawyer, while the Método 3 was very interested", he adds





https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
This is the one I remember. seems they replaced original lawyer with Marcos Aragão Correia.

Because João Grade dos Santos - wouldn't play ball it seems



Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral



In the contact made with João Grade dos Santos, the detectives of Método 3 spoke specifically of Gonçalo Amaral: "Obviously they had to speak about him: he was the inspector most talked about at that moment - mocked the lawyer - after all he was at the investigation of the two cases", he concludes. In their approach, the detectives emphasised the advantages of the proposal, "They told me that money for expenses was not a problem", stressed the lawyer.

Leonor Cipriano was defended by João Grade of Santos during all the inquest period but, on the eve of the start of the trial, the client waived the lawyer's services.

Months after having refused the proposal for collaboration with Metodo 3, João Grade dos Santos was replaced by Marcos Aragão Correia, a young lawyer with offices in Madeira [Portuguese Island]. From him it was a known a quick, but symbolic, passage through the continent: Aragão Correia participated in the searches for Madeleine, as a medium [psychic]. The lawyer had visions of the girl's corpse in the dam of the river Arade, in Silves. "The Judiciary Police - recognizes Aragão - completely dismissed these evidences, though I was a lawyer, while the Método 3 was very interested", he adds





https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html

Another pro amaral site making claims with no evidence to support them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 17, 2020, 06:26:04 PM
Also The Incestuous Relationship was deemed Unproven by The Court.
Was there actually any evidence at all that this incestuous relationship existed?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
This is the one I remember. seems they replaced original lawyer with Marcos Aragão Correia.

Because João Grade dos Santos - wouldn't play ball it seems



Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral



In the contact made with João Grade dos Santos, the detectives of Método 3 spoke specifically of Gonçalo Amaral: "Obviously they had to speak about him: he was the inspector most talked about at that moment - mocked the lawyer - after all he was at the investigation of the two cases", he concludes. In their approach, the detectives emphasised the advantages of the proposal, "They told me that money for expenses was not a problem", stressed the lawyer.

Leonor Cipriano was defended by João Grade of Santos during all the inquest period but, on the eve of the start of the trial, the client waived the lawyer's services.

Months after having refused the proposal for collaboration with Metodo 3, João Grade dos Santos was replaced by Marcos Aragão Correia, a young lawyer with offices in Madeira [Portuguese Island]. From him it was a known a quick, but symbolic, passage through the continent: Aragão Correia participated in the searches for Madeleine, as a medium [psychic]. The lawyer had visions of the girl's corpse in the dam of the river Arade, in Silves. "The Judiciary Police - recognizes Aragão - completely dismissed these evidences, though I was a lawyer, while the Método 3 was very interested", he adds





https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html


I can see why the hatred for Correia if he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer when the Court found Amaral guilty of perjury upheld despite his appeal.  And boy oh boy do these people know how to hate. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 06:30:00 PM
Was there actually any evidence at all that this incestuous relationship existed?

None... There was no evidence for anything claimed... On topic it seems amaral and his team just invented  the whole story
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 06:31:27 PM
Was there actually any evidence at all that this incestuous relationship existed?

Not that I recall.

I read The Trial Transcript at the time, but I have no idea of where to find it.  But the whole thing was a farce.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 06:43:18 PM

I can see why the hatred for Correia if he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer when the Court found Amaral guilty of perjury upheld despite his appeal.  And boy oh boy do these people know how to hate.

Well I believe as often is with the mccs - not everything is as it should be IMO


Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes
 Pereira Cristovão.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 06:45:44 PM
Well I believe as often is with the mccs - not everything is as it should be IMO


Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes
 Pereira Cristovão.

And we all know what happened to Cristovao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 06:57:56 PM

I can see why the hatred for Correia if he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer when the Court found Amaral guilty of perjury upheld despite his appeal.  And boy oh boy do these people know how to hate.

To be fair Amaral, after his spectacular win in the libel case brought by the parents, is still sought out for his opinion on the case by the media....the Netflix docuseries for example...and has continued to happily live his life 

Cipriano, on the other hand,  is still a child murderer and deeply hated by all right-thinking individuals. She was also unceremoniously dumped by Correia when she was no longer of any use to him.

And Correia...Correia, once his funding from Metodo3 ceased went awol and when last heard of was in deepest Brazil.

Well done Amaral say I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:00:06 PM
And we all know what happened to Cristovao.

Well he didn’t take the deal and was found not guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:04:35 PM
Well he didn’t take the deal and was found not guilty.

He was convicted of The Football Club Bribery Case.  And is he not still on trial in the House Invasions?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 07:07:14 PM
To be fair Amaral, after his spectacular win in the libel case brought by the parents, is still sought out for his opinion on the case by the media....the Netflix docuseries for example...and has continued to happily live his life 

Cipriano, on the other hand,  is still a child murderer and deeply hated by all right-thinking individuals. She was also unceremoniously dumped by Correia when she was no longer of any use to him.

And Correia...Correia, once his funding from Metodo3 ceased went awol and when last heard of was in deepest Brazil.

Well done Amaral say I.

We don't know if Cipriano is a child murderer.. There is a claim on here by a Portuguese journalist that most Portuguese thinks she's not guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:10:17 PM
He was convicted of The Football Club Bribery Case.  And is he not still on trial in the House Invasions?

Was he, I wasn’t aware.....mainly because I’m not interested in the downfall of individuals who has done thing wrong to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:13:19 PM
We don't know if Cipriano is a child murderer.. There is a claim on here by a Portuguese journalist that most Portuguese thinks she's not guilty

She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 07:16:13 PM
Reading through...

For the record, I'm not a fan of either of them, to put it politely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:17:44 PM
She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

An awful lot of bodies have gone missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 07:19:29 PM
She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

A conviction isn't absolute proof.. Particularly when the only evidence wsd a confession beaten out of her
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 17, 2020, 07:21:16 PM
An awful lot of bodies have gone missing.
all fed to the pigs by their parents no doubt. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:23:09 PM
An awful lot of bodies have gone missing.

I’ve no idea what you mean.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 07:23:34 PM
She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

Have you ever read the court judgements, Faith? I've honestly never read anything quite so bizarre.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:25:11 PM
A conviction isn't absolute proof.. Particularly when the only evidence wsd a confession beaten out of her

A conviction is the best proof we’ve got so I’d advise you to simply suck it up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Have you ever read the court judgements, Faith? I've honestly never read anything quite so bizarre.

When considering the  innocence or guilt of an accused person I always start with the question ‘ how honest is the defendant’....and no matter if you believe that Cipriano is guilty or innocent you can never call her honest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 07:32:31 PM
A conviction is the best proof we’ve got so I’d advise you to simply suck it up.
I'm hardly likely to regard you as a person to take advice from...I don't think she's guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
When considering the  innocence or guilt of an accused person I always start with the question ‘ how honest is the defendant’....and no matter if you believe that Cipriano is guilty or innocent you can never call her honest.

You couldn't exactly call Amaral honest either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 07:35:19 PM
When considering the  innocence or guilt of an accused person I always start with the question ‘ how honest is the defendant’....and no matter if you believe that Cipriano is guilty or innocent you can never call her honest.

You don't know enough about her or have any first hand knowledge to reach any opinion of value.. Imo.
I look at the evidence and to me it suggests she's innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:36:28 PM
I'm hardly likely to regard you as a person to take advice from...I don't think she's guilty

She’s a convicted murderess...that is not open to opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:37:16 PM
You couldn't exactly call Amaral honest either.

And he was convicted....much like Cipriano.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:41:52 PM
And he was convicted....much like Cipriano.

Oh, of course.  Amaral only committed Perjury after Leonor was beaten nearly senseless.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 17, 2020, 07:52:05 PM
Oh, of course.  Amaral only committed Perjury after Leonor was beaten nearly senseless.

She wasn't beaten hard enough, imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 07:55:54 PM
Well I believe as often is with the mccs - not everything is as it should be IMO


Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes
 Pereira Cristovão.

Are you really quoting Paulo Pereira Cristovão expecting anyone to place any reliance on what he says ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 08:11:12 PM
And he was convicted....much like Cipriano.

the evidence was overwhelming in his case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 08:13:03 PM
She’s a convicted murderess...that is not open to opinion.

What is open to opinion is her guilt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 09:55:56 PM
Oh, of course.  Amaral only committed Perjury after Leonor was beaten nearly senseless.

You know what...I’d believe that she had been beaten if she hadn’t proven herself such a committed liar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 09:57:34 PM
the evidence was overwhelming in his case

No it wasn’t but he was convicted, just like Cipriano so no use bleating.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:02:03 PM
What is open to opinion is her guilt.

No it’s not. She was tried and found guilty. The end.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
You know what...I’d believe that she had been beaten if she hadn’t proven herself such a committed liar.

The Portuguese Court decided that Leonor Cipriano was beaten while in the custody of The PJ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:10:42 PM
The Portuguese Court decided that Leonor Cipriano was beaten while in the custody of The PJ.

And they also said that she was guilty of murder so are you cherry picking the verdicts that suit ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 10:12:36 PM
And they also said that she was guilty of murder so are you cherry picking the verdicts that suit ?

No cherry picking just looking at the evidence.. And there's this..



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 17, 2020, 10:13:16 PM
Leonor Cipriano condemned to seven more months in jail for false accusations

The Court of Faro condemned today Leonor Cipriano to seven more months in jail for making false accusations in the process which incriminated five Judiciary Police officers of the crimes of aggression and torture.

2 - Leonor Cipriano had already confessed to her crimes on October 13 2004, and was accompanied by her lawyer at the time, Célia Costa, during the questioning before the alleged aggressions on October 14 2004 took place.

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:14:19 PM
No cherry picking just looking at the evidence.. And there's this..



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.

As I said on the other thread....did he carry out a poll ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 17, 2020, 10:23:23 PM
As I said on the other thread....did he carry out a poll ?
He certainly shut amaral up which is more to the point
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:36:37 PM
He certainly shut amaral up which is more to the point

Again....has he carried out a poll ? What is he basing his claim on ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 07:51:06 AM
Again....has he carried out a poll ? What is he basing his claim on ?
On his experience...I would think  a portuguese Journalist would have a far better idea of what the portuguese people think than you or anyone on this forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 10:38:16 AM
On his experience...I would think  a portuguese Journalist would have a far better idea of what the portuguese people think than you or anyone on this forum.

So he didn’t do a poll so has no way of knowing. Thank you for verifying that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 10:43:27 AM

I seem to remember that The Journalist is also a Lawyer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 10:51:42 AM
I seem to remember that The Journalist is also a Lawyer.

Nevertheless he was presenting his opinion as fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 10:54:52 AM
Nevertheless he was presenting his opinion as fact

There's a lot of that about.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 11:20:50 AM
There's a lot of that about.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 11:40:31 AM
So he didn’t do a poll so has no way of knowing. Thank you for verifying that.

He is in a perfect position to judge the mood of the nation.. You just can't accept facts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
He is in a perfect position to judge the mood of the nation.. You just can't accept facts

You do realise Davel don’t you that just because someone claims something that you agree with doesn’t necessarily make it true ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 12:02:16 PM
You do realise Davel don’t you that just because someone claims something that you agree with doesn’t necessarily make it true ?

It's a fact that he's in a perfect position to judge.. It's pretty strong evidence.  You also need to accept it is not factual to refer to cipriano as a child murderer... She may be innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 18, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Are you really quoting Paulo Pereira Cristovão expecting anyone to place any reliance on what he says ???

Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else. who are you comparing him with B


Why ever did the mccs involve metido 3 in the first place another disaster IMO they never attempted to reclaim any money paid to them.

They were dodgy - and dodgy detectives do dodgy things. Were they ever looking for Maddie.

I believe to make sence of them being employed was they had ulterior motives.

It still doesn't alter the fact GA believed there was no abduction - and that is still the case.



An Unjust Removal
On 2nd October, 2007, Amaral, after, criticizing his British counterparts in a phone call to a British journalist, was taken off the case and transferred to the nearby Algarve city of Faro. However, Amaral learnt, soon after, that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was privy to this information before Amaral himself was notified. Suspicious? Be it as you shall privately determine.

For those that have followed this case as closely as I have, it is easy to determine why Amaral was unceremoniously removed from the investigation. Bearing in mind, that by now the investigators were scrutinising very closely and leaning towards the possible involvement of the McCanns themselves in the disappearance of their daughter. At this stage, the investigators had found ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of an abduction, but had found huge inconsistencies in the McCann’s (and friend’s) accounts of that night and had procured remarkable evidence retrieved from the highly-trained dog alerts, Eddie and Keela.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 12:16:36 PM
It's a fact that he's in a perfect position to judge.. It's pretty strong evidence.  You also need to accept it is not factual to refer to cipriano as a child murderer... She may be innocent

It’s not evidence at all....it’s opinion. He is in no more a position to judge than you or I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 18, 2020, 01:08:30 PM
Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else. who are you comparing him with B


Why ever did the mccs involve metido 3 in the first place another disaster IMO they never attempted to reclaim any money paid to them.

They were dodgy - and dodgy detectives do dodgy things. Were they ever looking for Maddie.

I believe to make sence of them being employed was they had ulterior motives.

It still doesn't alter the fact GA believed there was no abduction - and that is still the case.



An Unjust Removal
On 2nd October, 2007, Amaral, after, criticizing his British counterparts in a phone call to a British journalist, was taken off the case and transferred to the nearby Algarve city of Faro. However, Amaral learnt, soon after, that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was privy to this information before Amaral himself was notified. Suspicious? Be it as you shall privately determine.

For those that have followed this case as closely as I have, it is easy to determine why Amaral was unceremoniously removed from the investigation. Bearing in mind, that by now the investigators were scrutinising very closely and leaning towards the possible involvement of the McCanns themselves in the disappearance of their daughter. At this stage, the investigators had found ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of an abduction, but had found huge inconsistencies in the McCann’s (and friend’s) accounts of that night and had procured remarkable evidence retrieved from the highly-trained dog alerts, Eddie and Keela.

"Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else."  - Kizzy

I think you have made an excellent point there ... and the fact remains we just don't know the depths of his corruption although the results from the fairly recent court cases against him do give a slight indication.

But the thread isn't about him as a bit part player, and were I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo Amaral.
 
The man who in my opinion by denying Madeleine's parents the presumption of innocence was the instigator of the hatred directed against them ... and fuelled a climate in which there are those who cannot differentiate between the anomaly of insisting that a vile convicted criminal's human rights must be observed in the one breath while in the next continue to deny the McCanns theirs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 01:09:58 PM
You do realise Davel don’t you that just because someone claims something that you agree with doesn’t necessarily make it true ?

Nor does it make Davel wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 18, 2020, 01:35:00 PM
"Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else."  - Kizzy

I think you have made an excellent point there ... and the fact remains we just don't know the depths of his corruption although the results from the fairly recent court cases against him do give a slight indication.

But the thread isn't about him as a bit part player, and were I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo Amaral.
 
The man who in my opinion by denying Madeleine's parents the presumption of innocence was the instigator of the hatred directed against them ... and fuelled a climate in which there are those who cannot differentiate between the anomaly of insisting that a vile convicted criminal's human rights must be observed in the one breath while in the next continue to deny the McCanns theirs.

At this moment in time there's no evidence that the McCann's human rights were denied them. Until the ECHR reach a conclusion that remains an opinion, rather than a fact imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 01:39:04 PM
At this moment in time there's no evidence that the McCann's human rights were denied them. Until the ECHR reach a conclusion that remains an opinion, rather than a fact imo.

Of course there is evidence...but no proof. Evidence will be presented and when the ECHR reach a conclusion that will be proof...not evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 18, 2020, 01:44:38 PM
"Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else."  - Kizzy

I think you have made an excellent point there ... and the fact remains we just don't know the depths of his corruption although the results from the fairly recent court cases against him do give a slight indication.

But the thread isn't about him as a bit part player, and were I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo Amaral.
 
The man who in my opinion by denying Madeleine's parents the presumption of innocence was the instigator of the hatred directed against them ... and fuelled a climate in which there are those who cannot differentiate between the anomaly of insisting that a vile convicted criminal's human rights must be observed in the one breath while in the next continue to deny the McCanns theirs.

I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo

Well, you're, not me are you - is that an order or what.

I think you may find the main players in all this is the mccs -

I think your very deluded when you say GA is to blame for any animosity towards them.

The mccs did a good job of that themselves

I think you underestimate people's intelligence by you blaming GA as to how they think.

I doubt very much that one person on here has there beliefs because of GA.

Or anyone else for that matter - like everything else Its only ur opinion unless you can prove otherwise B
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else. who are you comparing him with B


Why ever did the mccs involve metido 3 in the first place another disaster IMO they never attempted to reclaim any money paid to them.

They were dodgy - and dodgy detectives do dodgy things. Were they ever looking for Maddie.

I believe to make sence of them being employed was they had ulterior motives.

It still doesn't alter the fact GA believed there was no abduction - and that is still the case.



An Unjust Removal
On 2nd October, 2007, Amaral, after, criticizing his British counterparts in a phone call to a British journalist, was taken off the case and transferred to the nearby Algarve city of Faro. However, Amaral learnt, soon after, that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was privy to this information before Amaral himself was notified. Suspicious? Be it as you shall privately determine.

For those that have followed this case as closely as I have, it is easy to determine why Amaral was unceremoniously removed from the investigation. Bearing in mind, that by now the investigators were scrutinising very closely and leaning towards the possible involvement of the McCanns themselves in the disappearance of their daughter. At this stage, the investigators had found ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of an abduction, but had found huge inconsistencies in the McCann’s (and friend’s) accounts of that night and had procured remarkable evidence retrieved from the highly-trained dog alerts, Eddie and Keela.

Cristovao is corrupt.  He has been proven to be so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 01:59:08 PM
Nor does it make Davel wrong.

It makes is claim null and void.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
It makes is claim null and void.

Do you imagine thats a fact or do you realise you are quoting your opinion.

I posted...

I don't think I am... According  to Portuguese journalist interviewing amaral most Portuguese  don't think she's guilty


That is a 100% factually correct statement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:03:25 PM
It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 02:04:34 PM
It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?

I think you are becoming a little obsessed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:17:33 PM
I think you are becoming a little obsessed.

It’s a legitimate question....one you are obviously not comfortable answering.

Not to worry, I’ve opened a new thread on the subject so you can comment there.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 02:27:24 PM
It’s a legitimate question....one you are obviously not comfortable answering.

Not to worry, I’ve opened a new thread on the subject so you can comment there.

its  a legitimite question in your opinion...pointless in mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
its  a legitimite question in your opinion...pointless in mine.

You think Cipriano is innocent...now is your opportunity to help her prove it. You must be champing at the bit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 03:14:28 PM
You think Cipriano is innocent...now is your opportunity to help her prove it. You must be champing at the bit.

Are you crazy... Why should I feel the need to get involved... What a ridiculous idea
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 04:53:41 PM
Are you crazy... Why should I feel the need to get involved... What a ridiculous idea

I thought not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 18, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
I just hope the German police manage to persuade the Portuguese to look again at the Cipriano case with fresh eyes, especially if charges are brought against Bruckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 05:21:54 PM
I just hope the German police manage to persuade the Portuguese to look again at the Cipriano case with fresh eyes, especially if charges are brought against Bruckner.

Yes, because there's a hell of a lot of abduction evidence in the Cipriano case, just as there is in the McCann ca......oh, no wait, that's right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 18, 2020, 05:33:05 PM
Yes, because there's a hell of a lot of abduction evidence in the Cipriano case, just as there is in the McCann ca......oh, no wait, that's right.
Y-A-W-N
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 05:33:54 PM

...& besides, there is photographic evidence that Joana is alive & well, living with Maddie in the Atlas mountains of Morocco.

Just ask Sadie, she can identify Joana by the shape of her ankles.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 18, 2020, 05:48:43 PM
...& besides, there is photographic evidence that Joana is alive & well, living with Maddie in the Atlas mountains of Morocco.

Just ask Sadie, she can identify Joana by the shape of her ankles.
Madeleine and Joana are both little girls who are almost certainly dead, but do carry on taking the piss, we all love a good laugh at their expense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
I just hope the German police manage to persuade the Portuguese to look again at the Cipriano case with fresh eyes, especially if charges are brought against Bruckner.

Not much chance of that, I don't think.  In fact not much chance of anything.  We only now have another farce.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 05:52:04 PM
Madeleine and Joana are both little girls who are almost certainly dead, but do carry on taking the piss, we all love a good laugh at their expense.

Well, if they are dead then they aren't going to be affected by anything I have to say, so I really don't see the problem myself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 05:52:28 PM
Yes, because there's a hell of a lot of abduction evidence in the Cipriano case, just as there is in the McCann ca......oh, no wait, that's right.

Oh for God's sake do bog off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 18, 2020, 06:04:14 PM
Madeleine and Joana are both little girls who are almost certainly dead, but do carry on taking the piss, we all love a good laugh at their expense.
... and Sadie’s. So much disrespect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 18, 2020, 06:27:59 PM
Well, if they are dead then they aren't going to be affected by anything I have to say, so I really don't see the problem myself.
Great, so do carry on taking the piss out of dead children - it’s really most admirable and thanks for your contributions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 18, 2020, 06:29:03 PM
It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?

May taking a claim to the ECHR at the very least...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 06:33:47 PM
Great, so do carry on taking the piss out of dead children - it’s really most admirable and thanks for your contributions.

It's more like I'm taking the piss out of people who claim the dead children were abducted, but never mind.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 06:45:18 PM
May taking a claim to the ECHR at the very least...

At the very least.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 06:58:33 PM
May taking a claim to the ECHR at the very least...

Any ECHR claim needs to be made within 6 months of the judgement...so shes way out of time....i would have thought posters here would have known the facts. i would say with her torture she would ahve had a very easy case re no fair trial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 18, 2020, 06:59:05 PM
At the very least.

claims have to be made within 6 months of judgement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 18, 2020, 07:06:41 PM
It's more like I'm taking the piss out of people who claim the dead children were abducted, but never mind.
And I’m taking the piss out of you so all good.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 07:12:34 PM
And I’m taking the piss out of you so all good.

Are you?  I hadn't noticed, so you're not doing a very good job of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 07:54:43 PM
Are you?  I hadn't noticed, so you're not doing a very good job of it.

No on cares fo what you think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2020, 12:17:14 AM
At this moment in time there's no evidence that the McCann's human rights were denied them. Until the ECHR reach a conclusion that remains an opinion, rather than a fact imo.
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 19, 2020, 01:48:37 AM
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.

Yet incomparable to Madeleine’s.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2020, 02:09:53 AM
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.

And my Worm has just turned.  This is sad.  It is always one step too far with me.  I will now be applying The Rules.  So if in future you are at a thinking it was me who deleted your comment when it wasn't then it is likely that it will be me in future.

I have just about had enough.  All that I require from any of you is good manners.  And it grieves that I actually have to ask.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 19, 2020, 08:09:59 AM
And my Worm has just turned.  This is sad.  It is always one step too far with me.  I will now be applying The Rules.  So if in future you are at a thinking it was me who deleted your comment when it wasn't then it is likely that it will be me in future.

I have just about had enough.  All that I require from any of you is good manners.  And it grieves that I actually have to ask.

for some strange reason eleanor you seem to think the post made clearly by Brietta  was made by me. Not sure how you managed to amke such gross mistake
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 19, 2020, 09:23:19 AM
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.

They suffer without any letup day after day - where do you mean on here.

IMO it doesn't bother them - it bothers you.

They are getting on with life you should - the news that some believe is the culprit only disrupts there lives

What violation are they suffering - do you honestly think they read this or care what is said

Those that don't believe the abduction theory -  your words only fall on deaf ears B
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2020, 09:36:33 AM
They suffer without any letup day after day - where do you mean on here.

IMO it doesn't bother them - it bothers you.

They are getting on with life you should - the news that some believe is the culprit only disrupts there lives

What violation are they suffering - do you honestly think they read this or care what is said

Those that don't believe the abduction theory -  your words only fall on deaf ears B

It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 19, 2020, 09:52:25 AM
It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244

I believe empathy is a continuum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 19, 2020, 09:53:51 AM
I believe empathy is a continuum.
I don't... I think empathy and compassion grow like a, seed from those brave enough to plant it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2020, 10:08:09 AM
It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244

I don't think empathy is either present or absent in a new born. I think it's something children learn - or not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 19, 2020, 10:19:43 AM
I don't think empathy is either present or absent in a new born. I think it's something children learn - or not.

I think it's probably both... Behaviour can be part if a genetic memory.. It's easy to train border collie to herd sheep because it's in bred
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 19, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244


You can show as many snips as you like - but what you don't get is I have Empathy.

But that is for Maddie - Also I don't believe Maddie was abducted.

So what Empathy would I have for the mccs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2020, 05:08:23 PM

You can show as many snips as you like - but what you don't get is I have Empathy.

But that is for Maddie - Also I don't believe Maddie was abducted.

So what Empathy would I have for the mccs.

In my opinion as much as Goncalo Amaral had for them when he wrote a book of lies featuring them.  And in my opinion as much as those who did everything in their power to prevent Madeleine's parents looking for her when no-one else was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 19, 2020, 05:54:45 PM
In my opinion as much as Goncalo Amaral had for them when he wrote a book of lies featuring them.  And in my opinion as much as those who did everything in their power to prevent Madeleine's parents looking for her when no-one else was.

Ye as you say IYO but you don't know its true.

The mccs did everything in there power to ruin GA.

Who did everything in there power to prevent mccs looking for Maddie.

Apart from themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 19, 2020, 05:58:22 PM
In my opinion as much as Goncalo Amaral had for them when he wrote a book of lies featuring them.  And in my opinion as much as those who did everything in their power to prevent Madeleine's parents looking for her when no-one else was.

Who has prevented Kate & Gerry from looking for Madeleine?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 19, 2020, 06:02:40 PM
Ye as you say IYO but you don't know its true.

The mccs did everything in there power to ruin GA.

Who did everything in there power to prevent mccs looking for Maddie.

Apart from themselves.
The reverse is also evident.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 19, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
The reverse is also evident.
Yes, and let’s face it - he started it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 19, 2020, 06:38:28 PM
I don't think empathy is either present or absent in a new born. I think it's something children learn - or not.
I seem to recall you consider empathy to be an overrated quality anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2020, 09:05:20 PM
I seem to recall you consider empathy to be an overrated quality anyway.

Did I? Maybe it was selective empathy that I wasn't keen on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 19, 2020, 10:16:55 PM
Did I? Maybe it was selective empathy that I wasn't keen on.
Something you don’t practice yourself then, having empathy for no one I guess?!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 12:22:42 AM
Who has prevented Kate & Gerry from looking for Madeleine?

Absolutely no one! And the claims they make about being left to look for their daughter alone are such horrible lies.
 They couldn't go look for their daughter -too busy jogging,blogging, gaining celebrity status  way too busy dahlings..

I have no empathy for the parents due to the one fact we do not know what happened to Maddie and if the parents were involved or not.

I agree with Kizzy. Madeleine is our concern -not the parents feelings.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2020, 01:14:26 AM
Back On Topic please ... Goncalo Amaral.  Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 20, 2020, 02:25:57 AM
To be fair Amaral, after his spectacular win in the libel case brought by the parents, is still sought out for his opinion on the case by the media....the Netflix docuseries for example...and has continued to happily live his life 

Cipriano, on the other hand,  is still a child murderer and deeply hated by all right-thinking individuals. She was also unceremoniously dumped by Correia when she was no longer of any use to him.

And Correia...Correia, once his funding from Metodo3 ceased went awol and when last heard of was in deepest Brazil.

Well done Amaral say I.

Yep, he married a Brazilian girl.

Leonor Cipriano is not a murderer in the eyes of people who value Justice.  She was mercilessly tortured.   Her trial was the most unjust trial that I have ever heard of.  Henry Peacock was the judge, IIRC.   Dependent on the results, it will be interesting to find out what happens to him after the ECHR assess the case.

It will be interesting to hear how it affects Amaral and his mate Cristovao too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 20, 2020, 12:05:39 PM
Yep, he married a Brazilian girl.

Leonor Cipriano is not a murderer in the eyes of people who value Justice.  She was mercilessly tortured.   Her trial was the most unjust trial that I have ever heard of.  Henry Peacock was the judge, IIRC.   Dependent on the results, it will be interesting to find out what happens to him after the ECHR assess the case.

It will be interesting to hear how it affects Amaral and his mate Cristovao too
She's a **** of the highest order. Parole? Here's hoping she meets a similar end.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2020, 12:16:20 PM
Yep, he married a Brazilian girl.

Leonor Cipriano is not a murderer in the eyes of people who value Justice.  She was mercilessly tortured.   Her trial was the most unjust trial that I have ever heard of.  Henry Peacock was the judge, IIRC.   Dependent on the results, it will be interesting to find out what happens to him after the ECHR assess the case.

It will be interesting to hear how it affects Amaral and his mate Cristovao too

Is the case going to the ECHR ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 20, 2020, 02:32:06 PM
I seem to recall you consider empathy to be an overrated quality anyway.

Well, your wrong there - and you cant prove otherwise VS.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 20, 2020, 02:32:48 PM
Well, your wrong there - and you cant prove otherwise VS.
Sorry, are you G-Unit's PR person?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 20, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
Sorry, are you G-Unit's PR person?


 *%^^& VS my bad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 20, 2020, 02:52:06 PM
Is the case going to the ECHR ?

Its  a shame it wont be...re the six month limit...shed have an excellent case for an unfair trial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
She's a **** of the highest order. Parole? Here's hoping she meets a similar end.

It is widely known within the community who knew that 'family'  that young girl was abused and treated very badly by the mother and others!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 20, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
It is widely known within the community who knew that 'family'  that young girl was abused and treated very badly by the mother and others!

Do you have any reliable information to back that up....I think you are posting PJ propaganda
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2020, 03:05:38 PM

The topic is GONCALO AMARAL please stay on it ... Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 20, 2020, 09:00:08 PM
Absolutely no one! And the claims they make about being left to look for their daughter alone are such horrible lies.
 They couldn't go look for their daughter -too busy jogging,blogging, gaining celebrity status  way too busy dahlings..

I have no empathy for the parents due to the one fact we do not know what happened to Maddie and if the parents were involved or not.

I agree with Kizzy. Madeleine is our concern -not the parents feelings.

totally  agree the twins and maddie  were babies  kate and gerry were grown adults
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 21, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
Amaral is reported as saying that Brueckner's van had been checked and ruled out.

Does anyone know when that might have been or why it was taken to Germany for testing?

Snip
Also the yellow and white van of Christian Brueckner, a VolksWagen Westphalia where the German lived during his time in Portugal, has already been analyzed by the German authorities. What would prove to be a key piece of evidence turned out to be fruitless, since the vehicle will have already been thoroughly analyzed and no traces of DNA were found that link Christian Brueckner to the murder of Madeleine McCann.

Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector from the Faro PJ who led the case in Portugal, tells Australian channel 9news that it is wrong that Christian Brueckner escaped the radar of the Portuguese authorities and that the German was investigated at the time. "He was investigated by the PJ at the time and, when the investigation was over, he was discarded," says Gonçalo Amaral who reveals that even though Brueckner's van was analyzed even before the German police made the suspect known.

"The caravan where he lived was taken to Germany and analyzed. Tests were done but no DNA evidence was found, nothing was found there," said Gonçalo Amaral.

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/carrinha-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-foi-analisada-mas-nao-encontraram-provas-de-adn?ref=Mais%20Sobre_BlocoMaisSobre
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 22, 2020, 06:36:23 AM
I'm confused. How many vehicles did this guy have?

And which one(s) did he have at the time?



Van used by Madeleine McCann suspect 'was sold for scrap'
THE van used by the suspect in the Madeleine McCann case before she disappeared was sold for scrap, it has been revealed.
By Gerard Couzens
09:14, Sat, Jun 20, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:39, Sat, Jun 20, 2020
It has sparked fears that Portuguese detectives missed vital clues in their hunt for the youngster. The vehicle ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard after reportedly being seized by the authorities after Madeleine's disappearance.
It came as it emerged that Christian B told a Portuguese judge after his 2006 diesel theft arrest that he was a convicted paedophile. The 43-year-old German admitted his sordid past in his initial court quiz after his detention, court papers show.

The suspect had used the blue Bedford van with an Austrian pal in April 2006 to steal diesel from two lorries in Portimao, a half-hour drive from the Praia da Luz resort where the McCanns were staying when their daughter vanished in May 2007.

The files say the vehicle was dismantled after being valued at £90 by a court seeking payment of a fine.

It ended up being crushed in 2009 according to respected Portuguese daily Expresso, which said it was seized seven months after Madeleine vanished, although court papers say it was confiscated before her disappearance and was never returned to the suspect.

His diesel theft accomplice has been identified as drifter Michael Tatschl. They were freed in December 2006 after eight months in prison.

Christian B vanished from a house he was living at in nearby Barrocal, close to the place where he sold a two-tone VW camper van which has been at the centre of the police appeal.

This week it emerged that children's clothing had been found in a 30ft Tiffin Allegro motor home Christian B is said to have driven between Portugal and Germany.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1298611/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-van-sold
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 08:54:43 AM
I'm confused. How many vehicles did this guy have?

And which one(s) did he have at the time?



Van used by Madeleine McCann suspect 'was sold for scrap'
THE van used by the suspect in the Madeleine McCann case before she disappeared was sold for scrap, it has been revealed.
By Gerard Couzens
09:14, Sat, Jun 20, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:39, Sat, Jun 20, 2020
It has sparked fears that Portuguese detectives missed vital clues in their hunt for the youngster. The vehicle ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard after reportedly being seized by the authorities after Madeleine's disappearance.

It came as it emerged that Christian B told a Portuguese judge after his 2006 diesel theft arrest that he was a convicted paedophile. The 43-year-old German admitted his sordid past in his initial court quiz after his detention, court papers show.

The suspect had used the blue Bedford van with an Austrian pal in April 2006 to steal diesel from two lorries in Portimao, a half-hour drive from the Praia da Luz resort where the McCanns were staying when their daughter vanished in May 2007.

The files say the vehicle was dismantled after being valued at £90 by a court seeking payment of a fine.

It ended up being crushed in 2009 according to respected Portuguese daily Expresso, which said it was seized seven months after Madeleine vanished, although court papers say it was confiscated before her disappearance and was never returned to the suspect.

His diesel theft accomplice has been identified as drifter Michael Tatschl. They were freed in December 2006 after eight months in prison.

Christian B vanished from a house he was living at in nearby Barrocal, close to the place where he sold a two-tone VW camper van which has been at the centre of the police appeal.

This week it emerged that children's clothing had been found in a 30ft Tiffin Allegro motor home Christian B is said to have driven between Portugal and Germany.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1298611/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-van-sold

Bit of desperation from the Amaral camp beginning to seep in now as he tries to rewrite history with claims of a very striking one.
Interesting to note his inability to move beyond the lie he made of 2007 and the fact he has been well and truly rumbled.

Snip
But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI on Sunday, he also accused the authorities of altering photos of the two-tone VW camper van Brueckner was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The former PJ chief, who was removed as head of the Madeleine McCann inquiry in 2008 after criticising British police officers, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: 'It's the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

'I think it's important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered. Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don't think so.'

Suggesting the van could have looked very different in 2007 to the way it appeared in the photo put out by British police, he added: 'Is it that the German authorities reached the conclusion that the van wasn't like that when it was being driven in Praia da Luz in 2007? Who said that?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445467/Maddie-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-scapegoat-says-Portuguese-detective.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 22, 2020, 09:15:30 AM
Bit of desperation from the Amaral camp beginning to seep in now as he tries to rewrite history with claims of a very striking one.
Interesting to note his inability to move beyond the lie he made of 2007 and the fact he has been well and truly rumbled.

Snip
But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI on Sunday, he also accused the authorities of altering photos of the two-tone VW camper van Brueckner was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The former PJ chief, who was removed as head of the Madeleine McCann inquiry in 2008 after criticising British police officers, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: 'It's the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

'I think it's important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered. Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don't think so.'

Suggesting the van could have looked very different in 2007 to the way it appeared in the photo put out by British police, he added: 'Is it that the German authorities reached the conclusion that the van wasn't like that when it was being driven in Praia da Luz in 2007? Who said that?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445467/Maddie-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-scapegoat-says-Portuguese-detective.html

Were you there ? which van is it,history will judge who is right or wrong here .

Why haven't the press brought charges yet ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 22, 2020, 09:22:27 AM
Were you there ? which van is it,history will judge who is right or wrong here .

Why haven't the press brought charges yet ?
That's an easy question to answer - they've got very little evidence and what they do have is circumstantial.
The DNA must be a busted flush, as most cold cases now depend on it.
So we have a jail cell witness statement - which in legal terms is almost worthless - hence the requirement to attempt to corroborate it. But the Polizei need to follow up all leads, so let's see what pans out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 09:22:48 AM
Were you there ? which van is it,history will judge who is right or wrong here .

Why haven't the press brought charges yet ?

You read the same information I do - particularly that emanating from Amaral - and appear to be verifying my thinking that ...

"Bit of desperation from the Amaral camp beginning to seep in now as he tries to rewrite history with claims of a very striking one.
Interesting to note his inability to move beyond the lie he made of 2007 and the fact he has been well and truly rumbled."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 22, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
Amaral didn't accuse the parents of knowing what happened in this interview.....whats silencing him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 09:27:10 AM
I'm confused. How many vehicles did this guy have?

And which one(s) did he have at the time?



Van used by Madeleine McCann suspect 'was sold for scrap'
THE van used by the suspect in the Madeleine McCann case before she disappeared was sold for scrap, it has been revealed.
By Gerard Couzens
09:14, Sat, Jun 20, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:39, Sat, Jun 20, 2020
It has sparked fears that Portuguese detectives missed vital clues in their hunt for the youngster. The vehicle ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard after reportedly being seized by the authorities after Madeleine's disappearance.
It came as it emerged that Christian B told a Portuguese judge after his 2006 diesel theft arrest that he was a convicted paedophile. The 43-year-old German admitted his sordid past in his initial court quiz after his detention, court papers show.

The suspect had used the blue Bedford van with an Austrian pal in April 2006 to steal diesel from two lorries in Portimao, a half-hour drive from the Praia da Luz resort where the McCanns were staying when their daughter vanished in May 2007.

The files say the vehicle was dismantled after being valued at £90 by a court seeking payment of a fine.

It ended up being crushed in 2009 according to respected Portuguese daily Expresso, which said it was seized seven months after Madeleine vanished, although court papers say it was confiscated before her disappearance and was never returned to the suspect.

His diesel theft accomplice has been identified as drifter Michael Tatschl. They were freed in December 2006 after eight months in prison.

Christian B vanished from a house he was living at in nearby Barrocal, close to the place where he sold a two-tone VW camper van which has been at the centre of the police appeal.

This week it emerged that children's clothing had been found in a 30ft Tiffin Allegro motor home Christian B is said to have driven between Portugal and Germany.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1298611/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-van-sold

He seems to have had an unlimited supply.

Snip

Mr Tatschl added that he had returned to Praia da Luz in February 2007 to find  Brueckner camping near the town.

He said: 'He was going to raves and I think selling drugs. I stuck around for a bit and then went back to Spain.'

Just weeks after the abduction of Madeleine McCann Brueckner also travelled to Spain where Mr Tatschl was living in Orgiva, Andalucia.

Tatschl said: 'In late May or early June he arrived in Spain with his big American camper van. He knew I had connections to the marijuana world and could help him make money.

'We just thought he was a pervert but didn’t think he liked young children.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 22, 2020, 09:32:51 AM
He seems to have had an unlimited supply.

Snip

Mr Tatschl added that he had returned to Praia da Luz in February 2007 to find  Brueckner camping near the town.

He said: 'He was going to raves and I think selling drugs. I stuck around for a bit and then went back to Spain.'

Just weeks after the abduction of Madeleine McCann Brueckner also travelled to Spain where Mr Tatschl was living in Orgiva, Andalucia.

Tatschl said: 'In late May or early June he arrived in Spain with his big American camper van. He knew I had connections to the marijuana world and could help him make money.

'We just thought he was a pervert but didn’t think he liked young children.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
Let's keep it on topic, guys. Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 09:38:42 AM
Amaral didn't accuse the parents of knowing what happened in this interview.....whats silencing him.

I didn't notice that.  Almost unheard of that he didn't reiterate that slur given the opportunity. He did during his Spanish interview in December 2019 since when we have heard nothing.  In my opinion something has flushed him out into the open and it can only be related to the information coming out about Brueckner and as Misty says is working on rewriting evidential history. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 22, 2020, 10:43:23 AM
I didn't notice that.  Almost unheard of that he didn't reiterate that slur given the opportunity. He did during his Spanish interview in December 2019 since when we have heard nothing.  In my opinion something has flushed him out into the open and it can only be related to the information coming out about Brueckner and as Misty says is working on rewriting evidential history.

Flushed him out ? He’s not BigFoot.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 22, 2020, 10:58:52 AM
Flushed him out ? He’s not BigFoot.

Was he a plod once, all bigfoots they are,allegedly .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 22, 2020, 11:14:46 AM
I didn't notice that.  Almost unheard of that he didn't reiterate that slur given the opportunity. He did during his Spanish interview in December 2019 since when we have heard nothing.  In my opinion something has flushed him out into the open and it can only be related to the information coming out about Brueckner and as Misty says is working on rewriting evidential history.

Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 22, 2020, 11:47:34 AM
Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO

Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 22, 2020, 11:52:42 AM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet

What will definitely make a prosecution difficult is the number of potential witnesses selling their stories to the tabloids.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 22, 2020, 11:58:53 AM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet

Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know.


Well, that's exactly my beliefs in reverse - on who I believe was involved.

Bit hypocritical of you though D isn't it - seeing your such a stickler for evidence/proof not what we think.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know.


Well, that's exactly my beliefs in reverse - on who I believe was involved.

Bit hypocritical of you though D isn't it - seeing your such a stickler for evidence/proof not what we think.




He is a paedo/rapist/burglar/fuel thief who owned lots of vehicles & a memory stick with kid porn on, he lived in PDL & had a phone conversation on 3rd May 07, his friend said that he said that he dunnit.

There's still a complete absence of evidence he ever set foot in G5a but we'll just ignore that minor detail as it's completely irrelevant.

He's guilty, string him up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 22, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet

I thought he was interviewed but dismissed?

It is said at the time of the fuel theft he volunteered his previous in Germany.  Assuming this is true why fess up?  Maybe he thought he would get caught out if he didn't fess up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 22, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
What will definitely make a prosecution difficult is the number of potential witnesses selling their stories to the tabloids.

A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 22, 2020, 12:18:08 PM
What will definitely make a prosecution difficult is the number of potential witnesses selling their stories to the tabloids.

What about if the lead detective wrote a book on the case so far... Do you think that would help
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 22, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO

None of it rings true imo. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 22, 2020, 12:20:22 PM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know.


Well, that's exactly my beliefs in reverse - on who I believe was involved.

Bit hypocritical of you though D isn't it - seeing your such a stickler for evidence/proof not what we think.

I've looked at the evidence Re him and the evidence Re the parents..

Parents 99.9999999999 not involved... CB  99 % involved..
All based on evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:25:23 PM
I've looked at the evidence Re him and the evidence Re the parents..

Parents 99.9999999999 not involved... CB  99 % involved..
All based on evidence

What's the missing 1%?

Him ever setting foot in G5a I suppose.

Just a minor detail. 

Maybe he just stood outside & teleported Maddie through the window.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 12:33:26 PM
Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO

I've been saying for years that Amaral tried to twist the evidence to suit what he thought was the crime.

It isn't very nice is it ... but good to see you have finally caught up with me there.

The only difference I can see is that Madeleine's parents are law abiding folk who were set up by Amaral and Cristovao in the press without evidence or proof ... whereas Brueckner is a time served and presently serving criminal with quite a long rap sheet.

Brueckner is a burglar and a paedophile who was active in Luz and whose phone places him there on the night Madeleine was lifted.  It now appears from what he is saying that Amaral knew about this at the time ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
I've been saying for years that Amaral tried to twist the evidence to suit what he thought was the crime.

It isn't very nice is it ... but good to see you have finally caught up with me there.

The only difference I can see is that Madeleine's parents are law abiding folk who were set up by Amaral and Cristovao in the press without evidence or proof ... whereas Brueckner is a time served and presently serving criminal with quite a long rap sheet.

Brueckner is a burglar and a paedophile who was active in Luz and whose phone places him there on the night Madeleine was lifted.  It now appears from what he is saying that Amaral knew about this at the time ???

* Disappeared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him.

Murat and the McCann's successfully sued.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 12:47:12 PM
What about if the lead detective wrote a book on the case so far... Do you think that would help

An excellent observation.  Certainly a fact which is being blissfully overlooked by those who have widely Applauded Amaral et al holding kangaroo courts on Madeleine's parents with little thought to anything but when the next cheque from media appearances etc was due to bounce off the doormat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 22, 2020, 12:50:40 PM
Absolutely no one! And the claims they make about being left to look for their daughter alone are such horrible lies.
 They couldn't go look for their daughter -too busy jogging,blogging, gaining celebrity status  way too busy dahlings..

I have no empathy for the parents due to the one fact we do not know what happened to Maddie and if the parents were involved or not.

I agree with Kizzy. Madeleine is our concern -not the parents feelings.


Give it a rest!!   Where were they supposed to go looking for Madeleine?  Come on tell us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:53:32 PM

Give it a rest!!   Where were they supposed to go looking for Madeleine?  Come on tell us.

Where they left her, IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 22, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him.

I very much doubt he could sue for anything so far said..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 22, 2020, 01:14:36 PM
Where they left her, IMO


You're going all mystic again,  give your crystal ball a shake.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 22, 2020, 01:49:26 PM
I've looked at the evidence Re him and the evidence Re the parents..

Parents 99.9999999999 not involved... CB  99 % involved..
All based on evidence

Only in your head -  only in your opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 22, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
What about if the lead detective wrote a book on the case so far... Do you think that would help

That would only come into play if the parents were charged.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 22, 2020, 05:37:15 PM
Only in your head -  only in your opinion

Of course it's my opinion but it fits with what's happening  now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 22, 2020, 06:27:35 PM
A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him.
He’s a rapist and burglar and paedophile, what could he sue for?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on June 22, 2020, 06:54:56 PM
He’s a rapist and burglar and paedophile, what could he sue for?
Bringing his name into disrepute.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 22, 2020, 06:55:28 PM
Bringing his name into disrepute.  @)(++(*
Yes, I’m sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 22, 2020, 09:29:54 PM
An example of Amaral’s blatant lying, from his recent TV interview

“GA:… around 10 pm and what these people say is what the whole world knows, that who… was later, who could… came to that conclusion that the person who was transporting that child was the person who was coming down from, from a certain plane, on a certain date with a son in his arms in England, who was the father of the girl… Madeleine. So, they didn't say he was similar, they said 80 or almost 90% it was Maddie's father. By the way of walking, by the structure, and so on ...”

Or put it another way they were 60% or almost 50/50 it was Maddie’s father.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 08:39:44 AM
I notice Amaral corrected the interviewer on the subject of his position in the first investigation;

Gonçalo Amaral was the chief, chief inspector of the delegation… of the directorate of Portimão...

GA: Coordinator of the investigation ...
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21.html#more

It's hard to understand why even in Portugal they don't understand what Amaral's position was. Even I know that Encarnacao was the head man of Portimao and the one in charge of the investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 23, 2020, 09:01:18 AM
An example of Amaral’s blatant lying, from his recent TV interview

“GA:… around 10 pm and what these people say is what the whole world knows, that who… was later, who could… came to that conclusion that the person who was transporting that child was the person who was coming down from, from a certain plane, on a certain date with a son in his arms in England, who was the father of the girl… Madeleine. So, they didn't say he was similar, they said 80 or almost 90% it was Maddie's father. By the way of walking, by the structure, and so on ...”

Or put it another way they were 60% or almost 50/50 it was Maddie’s father.

Presumably there is a kosha translation for that,cite please.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
Presumably there is a kosha translation for that,cite please.

As I'm constantly criticised... It's kosher
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 10:01:12 AM
Seems GA has not been as quiet as some posters think.

Amaral has made numerous appearances on television since the emergence of Christian B as a suspect in the McCann case.


He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop




He told a Portuguese TV interviewer last night: “When I spoke last year I was talking about the situation that’s happening now.

“It matters little who the paedophile is.”

He added: “He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Asked if he believed Christian B was the man responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance, he added: “To answer that question it has to be proven first that an abduction took place.”

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 10:09:30 AM
Seems GA has not been as quiet as some posters think.

Amaral has made numerous appearances on television since the emergence of Christian B as a suspect in the McCann case.


He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop




He told a Portuguese TV interviewer last night: “When I spoke last year I was talking about the situation that’s happening now.

“It matters little who the paedophile is.”

He added: “He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Asked if he believed Christian B was the man responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance, he added: “To answer that question it has to be proven first that an abduction took place.”

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/

Ha ha yes. A suspect has been found for an abduction, but the abduction is a long way from being a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
Seems GA has not been as quiet as some posters think.

Amaral has made numerous appearances on television since the emergence of Christian B as a suspect in the McCann case.


He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop




He told a Portuguese TV interviewer last night: “When I spoke last year I was talking about the situation that’s happening now.

“It matters little who the paedophile is.”

He added: “He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Asked if he believed Christian B was the man responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance, he added: “To answer that question it has to be proven first that an abduction took place.”

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/


A perfect suspect he missed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 11:11:36 AM

A perfect suspect he missed.

yES - depending on what you believe ...... abduction or no abduction I suppose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 11:11:44 AM

A perfect suspect he missed.

A suspect right on his doorstep but who wasn't in when the police called ... but why bother investigating real criminals when you've already made your mind up as Amaral confirms he had in his book.  Or is that just another of his lies?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 11:17:19 AM
yES - depending on what you believe ...... abduction or no abduction I suppose.

I'm going by what the British police and the Portuguese police believe now aided and abetted by the German police.  I think that outranks a disgraced ex-cop, and a rump of internet theorists.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:19:53 AM

A perfect suspect he missed.

I think Amaral means a perfect fall guy. That's why he mentions death; the perfect candidate to blame would be dead as well as suspicious. Perhaps he's read about SY's solution to the Ben Needham disappearance. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 11:20:09 AM
I wonder if anyone has a photo of him wearing a maroon top with a white circle on the back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
I'm going by what the British police and the Portuguese police believe now aided and abetted by the German police.  I think that outranks a disgraced ex-cop, and a rump of internet theorists.

According to the German police the PJ still think that the parents were involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
I'm going by what the British police and the Portuguese police believe now aided and abetted by the German police.  I think that outranks a disgraced ex-cop, and a rump of internet theorists.

You may well be mistaken about the Portuguese police's beliefs, according to some reports.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
I think Amaral means a perfect fall guy. That's why he mentions death; the perfect candidate to blame would be dead as well as suspicious. Perhaps he's read about SY's solution to the Ben Needham disappearance.

I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:32:19 AM
You may well be mistaken about the Portuguese police's beliefs, according to some reports.

Snap.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.

The ‘mate’ has 20,000 reasons to do so. A bit of an incentive I’m sure you’ll agree.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:38:08 AM
I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.

I thought this man was living in a camper van when Madeleine disappeared? It is alleged that he was phoned in the PdL area on 3rd May, it was'nt possible to say he was near the Ocean Club. I have seen nothing suggesting he matched any descriptions, except on the internet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 11:39:17 AM
yES - depending on what you believe ...... abduction or no abduction I suppose.

You may have noticed amaral did not accuse the parents.. He seems to have been silenced. It's also admitted his team didn't interview CB...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 11:43:41 AM
I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.



Yes as Faith said 20.000 reasons - they say money talks and seemed it has made him talk after ten years is it he has kept it to himself.

So what sort of person does that make him - not very reliable IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 11:44:30 AM
You may well be mistaken about the Portuguese police's beliefs, according to some reports.

Tabloid reports ?  Someone 'close to the investigation' reports ?  Bring it on till we have a good laugh.

Never mind then according to you the Portuguese have again abrogated their responsibility ... if so ... at least two reliable police forces are investigating Madeleine's abduction one of which would like to find sufficient evidence to charge their Prime Suspect.

I don't think you realise how you insult the mainstream Policia Judiciaria when you promote tittle tattle which suggests they are less motivated to solve Madeleine's case when compared to others.  Sad, really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:53:41 AM
Tabloid reports ?  Someone 'close to the investigation' reports ?  Bring it on till we have a good laugh.

Never mind then according to you the Portuguese have again abrogated their responsibility ... if so ... at least two reliable police forces are investigating Madeleine's abduction one of which would like to find sufficient evidence to charge their Prime Suspect.

I don't think you realise how you insult the mainstream Policia Judiciaria when you promote tittle tattle which suggests they are less motivated to solve Madeleine's case when compared to others.  Sad, really.

Seems to me the PJ are very motivated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:59:35 AM
Tabloid reports ?  Someone 'close to the investigation' reports ?  Bring it on till we have a good laugh.

Never mind then according to you the Portuguese have again abrogated their responsibility ... if so ... at least two reliable police forces are investigating Madeleine's abduction one of which would like to find sufficient evidence to charge their Prime Suspect.

I don't think you realise how you insult the mainstream Policia Judiciaria when you promote tittle tattle which suggests they are less motivated to solve Madeleine's case when compared to others.  Sad, really.

I don't think I'm the only one quoting tabloid reports, but I can quote do Carmo who said in 2017 that the PJ didn't know what crime had been committed.

I'm not accusing the PJ of being less motivated to solve the case, I'm pointing out that they're not necessarily investigating an abduction and nothing else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 12:05:55 PM
I don't think I'm the only one quoting tabloid reports, but I can quote do Carmo who said in 2017 that the PJ didn't know what crime had been committed.

I'm not accusing the PJ of being less motivated to solve the case, I'm pointing out that they're not necessarily investigating an abduction and nothing else.

He also said the parents were not suspects and there was no evidence against them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:15:26 PM
He also said the parents were not suspects and there was no evidence against them

He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
A suspect right on his doorstep but who wasn't in when the police called ... but why bother investigating real criminals when you've already made your mind up as Amaral confirms he had in his book.  Or is that just another of his lies?


No IMO he believes there was a suspect right on the doorstep - it seems he hasn't changed his mind either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*

i think you misunderstand what Rowley said...I find your emojis quite childish
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:21:12 PM
i think you misunderstand what Rowley said...I find your emojis quite childish

I think not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 12:24:08 PM
I think not.
Rowley is a Cambridge graduate...he went to the same school I did...he seems to follow the same thought processes I do you seem to want to portray him as a fool...he isnt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
Rowley is a Cambridge graduate...he went to the same school I did...he seems to follow the same thought processes I do you seem to want to portray him as a fool...he isnt

You really are the gift that keeps giving. Comedy gold.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 12:31:59 PM
He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*

I can see he was dithering quite a bit when he said ...

''But what I can say,

just as I did back in 2011

and 2013,

is that Maddie's parents are not suspects.

That statement remains:

the parents are not suspects. Full stop.''  Pedro Do Carmo 2017
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 12:36:36 PM

No IMO he believes there was a suspect right on the doorstep - it seems he hasn't changed his mind either.

Quite frankly I don't know what Amaral believes and I care even less.  However if he cannot see the maelstrom bursting up around him now he is a far greater fool than I took him to be.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 12:38:36 PM
I thought this man was living in a camper van when Madeleine disappeared? It is alleged that he was phoned in the PdL area on 3rd May, it was'nt possible to say he was near the Ocean Club. I have seen nothing suggesting he matched any descriptions, except on the internet.


Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:40:36 PM
Rowley is a Cambridge graduate...he went to the same school I did...he seems to follow the same thought processes I do you seem to want to portray him as a fool...he isnt

Do you think only fools say foolish things?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 12:46:22 PM
I thought this man was living in a camper van when Madeleine disappeared? It is alleged that he was phoned in the PdL area on 3rd May, it was'nt possible to say he was near the Ocean Club. I have seen nothing suggesting he matched any descriptions, except on the internet.


New photos and details about German paedophile ”Christian B” match the description of a mystery man spotted nearby at least four times.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:55:51 PM

Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.

Around Praia da Luz is correct, near the Ocean Club doesn't follow. The Luz parish Optimus towers have a 5-8km radius, for example.

(https://h42a.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/russ1.jpg) 
https://h42a.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:57:32 PM

New photos and details about German paedophile ”Christian B” match the description of a mystery man spotted nearby at least four times.

Has this been confirmed by the investigators or is it just internet speculation?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 01:12:15 PM
Do you think only fools say foolish things?

Its your interpretation of it thats foolish imo. Hes making the point that abduction really is the most probable option.
Hes beeng a little sarcastic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 01:19:57 PM
Around Praia da Luz is correct, near the Ocean Club doesn't follow. The Luz parish Optimus towers have a 5-8km radius, for example.

(https://h42a.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/russ1.jpg) 
https://h42a.wordpress.com/

So you are saying the British experts went to all that trouble for worthless information.  What a pity 😢😢
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 01:24:00 PM

Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.

It puts the mobile there not the 43-year-old this has been gone through before.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 01:28:39 PM
It puts the mobile there not the 43-year-old this has been gone through before.

Not according to G-unit it doesn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 01:30:21 PM
Around Praia da Luz is correct, near the Ocean Club doesn't follow. The Luz parish Optimus towers have a 5-8km radius, for example.

(https://h42a.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/russ1.jpg) 
https://h42a.wordpress.com/

As I understand its where those two green circles overlap thats important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2020, 01:32:02 PM
I can see he was dithering quite a bit when he said ...

''But what I can say,

just as I did back in 2011

and 2013,

is that Maddie's parents are not suspects.

That statement remains:

the parents are not suspects. Full stop.''  Pedro Do Carmo 2017

They are not suspects in Portugal. They are also not cleared so can be suspects again!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 01:36:39 PM
They are not suspects in Portugal. They are also not cleared so can be suspects again!

Please provide an official cite confirming that.  If you can't please don't expect it to stand.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 02:12:06 PM
Its your interpretation of it thats foolish imo. Hes making the point that abduction really is the most probable option.
Hes beeng a little sarcastic.

He's offering a strawman argument imo. Nobody ever thought, suggested or considered that Madeleine decided to set off and start a new life, so there was no need to introduce and dismiss that thought at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 02:17:14 PM
They are not suspects in Portugal. They are also not cleared so can be suspects again!

I believe that the Supreme Court made that particularly clear.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 02:18:01 PM
Quite frankly I don't know what Amaral believes and I care even less.  However if he cannot see the maelstrom bursting up around him now he is a far greater fool than I took him to be.

 @)(++(* Do you think it will bother GA what you think B - quite frankly my dear he won't give a damn IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
I believe that the Supreme Court made that particularly clear.

I seem to remember gunit providing us with the fiures re referral to the ECHR and the SC in portugal got it wrong in 96% of the cases heard
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 23, 2020, 03:44:06 PM
I seem to remember gunit providing us with the fiures re referral to the ECHR and the SC in portugal got it wrong in 96% of the cases heard

And,he still won his appeals.

I see a case from around the same time has had a response back in Jan 2019,obviously no hurry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 04:08:39 PM
And,he still won his appeals.

I see a case from around the same time has had a response back in Jan 2019,obviously no hurry.

Maybe something going on behind the scenes... Would explain amarals lack of accusations in his recent interview
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 23, 2020, 04:26:03 PM
Presumably there is a kosha translation for that,cite please.
What would you accept as kosher?  A translation by Joana Morais?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 23, 2020, 04:28:53 PM
He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*
Eh?  Some children DO run away from home, Andrew Gosden for one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 04:29:59 PM
I seem to remember gunit providing us with the fiures re referral to the ECHR and the SC in portugal got it wrong in 96% of the cases heard

Do you have a link ?

( Let me save you the bother.....it was G-Unit that posted the information...if you want to verify it ask her )

For once own the information you post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 04:30:44 PM
Maybe something going on behind the scenes... Would explain amarals lack of accusations in his recent interview

Well, I believe he was doubting the abduction as not proven - so say no more...... than he has too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 04:38:19 PM
Well, I believe he was doubting the abduction as not proven - so say no more...... than he has too.
He didn't mention any accidents and cover ups
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
He didn't mention any accidents and cover ups


Didn't have to if he doesn't believe the abduction - we know the rest FGS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 05:08:09 PM
He didn't mention any accidents and cover ups

Seems he is not too impressed with the present investigation and imo he is right.

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.


The former PJ chief, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: “It’s the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

“I think it’s important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered.

“Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don’t think so.”

He went on to say any appeal focused on the van from the official photos without the distinctive markings would be a waste of time.




He accuses the mccs and tapas 7 of lying as well - so make of that what you will.


He has repeated his well-known criticism of the Brit youngster’s parents and their “Tapas Seven” holiday pals.

Amaral accused them of abandoning their children to eat out at night and lying to Portuguese police, and said Madeleine had been crying the night before she vanished on May 3, 2007.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
Seems he is not too impressed with the present investigation and imo he is right.

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.


The former PJ chief, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: “It’s the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

“I think it’s important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered.

“Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don’t think so.”

He went on to say any appeal focused on the van from the official photos without the distinctive markings would be a waste of time.




He accuses the mccs and tapas 7 of lying as well - so make of that what you will.


He has repeated his well-known criticism of the Brit youngster’s parents and their “Tapas Seven” holiday pals.

Amaral accused them of abandoning their children to eat out at night and lying to Portuguese police, and said Madeleine had been crying the night before she vanished on May 3, 2007.

he was sacked from the invstigation....convicted of lying..lied to the press...Sandra F....hes referred to in the uk press as didcredited.. disgraced....and hes yesterdays man
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 23, 2020, 05:21:17 PM
he was sacked from the invstigation....convicted of lying..lied to the press...Sandra F....hes referred to in the uk press as didcredited.. disgraced....and hes yesterdays man
He even lied in the interview and claimed that the Smiths were up to 90% sure the man they saw was Gerry. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on June 23, 2020, 05:32:04 PM
What happened to the VW Campervan once the PJ had finished with it?  Was it sold on to a car dealer who had Brueckner's kiddy-magnet graffiti sprayed over or removed with T-cut to prepare for reselling, before it eventually ended up in the German BKA's possession?...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 05:44:02 PM
he was sacked from the invstigation....convicted of lying..lied to the press...Sandra F....hes referred to in the uk press as didcredited.. disgraced....and hes yesterdays man


Yesterday's man - I don't think so you bring him up every opportunity you can.

He was mentioned yesterday and today and will be again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 23, 2020, 05:54:02 PM

Yesterday's man - I don't think so you bring him up every opportunity you can.

He was mentioned yesterday and today and will be again tomorrow.
What does he do for a living, apart from TV interviews slagging off Madeleine’s parents and sneering at the investigation into her disappearance? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 23, 2020, 05:56:22 PM

Yesterday's man - I don't think so you bring him up every opportunity you can.

He was mentioned yesterday and today and will be again tomorrow.

Yesterdays man re the investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 06:03:01 PM
What does he do for a living, apart from TV interviews slagging off Madeleine’s parents and sneering at the investigation into her disappearance?

What does he do for a living - why should that interest you.VS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 23, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
What does he do for a living - why should that interest you.VS
It was a rhetorical question, I really couldn’t care less what the ghastly man gets up to, I expect very little apart from renting his gob out every time this case appears in the news.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 07:29:37 PM
It was a rhetorical question, I really couldn’t care less what the ghastly man gets up to, I expect very little apart from renting his gob out every time this case appears in the news.

Surely you remember he's retired? Does he get paid for appearing on TV or are you just mud-slinging?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
I believe that the Supreme Court made that particularly clear.

Yes they certainly did! When the McCanns go to court the truth comes out. The same happened with LP. Not cleared!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on June 23, 2020, 08:20:20 PM
Surely you remember he's retired? Does he get paid for appearing on TV or are you just mud-slinging?
Oh is it mudslinging to suggest people are being paid for talking to the media? Then I guess you’re guilty of the same thing on another thread - lol.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 24, 2020, 09:02:10 AM
Seems he is not too impressed with the present investigation and imo he is right.

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.


The former PJ chief, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: “It’s the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

“I think it’s important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered.

“Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don’t think so.”

He went on to say any appeal focused on the van from the official photos without the distinctive markings would be a waste of time.




He accuses the mccs and tapas 7 of lying as well - so make of that what you will.


He has repeated his well-known criticism of the Brit youngster’s parents and their “Tapas Seven” holiday pals.

Amaral accused them of abandoning their children to eat out at night and lying to Portuguese police, and said Madeleine had been crying the night before she vanished on May 3, 2007.



So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 09:09:50 AM

So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?

Closer than some would like to the investigation? or maybe they are out there somewhere.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 24, 2020, 09:38:03 AM
Closer than some would like to the investigation? or maybe they are out there somewhere.

If they are out there somewhere,  how come the German Police didn't have it?   Why has Amaral got hold of it and when.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 10:17:01 AM

So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?


Think you should be more concerned about why they were altered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 24, 2020, 10:40:16 AM

Think you should be more concerned about why they were altered.

Who is alleged to have altered them ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 10:41:16 AM
If they are out there somewhere,  how come the German Police didn't have it?   Why has Amaral got hold of it and when.

The Germans aren't as clever has you would like to think,thats why the named unnamed German remains free of charge on the Madeleine case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 10:42:22 AM
Who is alleged to have altered them ?

Think you should be more concerned about why they were altered.

Different vehicles? or why the different look.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 10:50:48 AM
Who is alleged to have altered them ?


But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 11:56:51 AM

So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?
Amaral seems to have a finger in more pies than one ...

Snip
Portuguese detectives who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been left facing tough questions after it emerged they identified the German paedophile who is now the chief suspect in 2007 - but 'discarded' him.

Goncalo Amaral, the man who led the investigation, confirmed in April last year that 'a German paedophile currently in jail in Germany' - now named as Christian Brueckner - was identified 13 years ago as a potential suspect.
                                  (https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/05/21/29214814-8393059-Goncalo_Amaral_the_Portuguese_ex_investigator_who_was_in_charge_-a-12_1591388312511.jpg)
But Amaral, who was sacked after naming Kate and Jerry as suspects in the disappearance and maintains they were responsible, said Brueckner was 'discarded' after detectives 'found nothing to suggest he took Madeleine'.

That is despite revelations today that Brueckner had a lengthy criminal record including burglary and child sex crimes, lived in a property just three miles from where Maddie went missing, and can be placed in the area on the night in question using mobile phone records.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8393059/Met-sources-blast-lacklustre-approach-Portuguese-colleagues-Madeleine-McCann-breakthrough.html?fbclid=IwAR3pBhHTxph6Gl__Z141nujPsRD53uJamZ0ls-xVgKnpPUhQouNhZKdWckc
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
Amaral seems to have a finger in more pies than one ...

Snip
Portuguese detectives who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been left facing tough questions after it emerged they identified the German paedophile who is now the chief suspect in 2007 - but 'discarded' him.

Goncalo Amaral, the man who led the investigation, confirmed in April last year that 'a German paedophile currently in jail in Germany' - now named as Christian Brueckner - was identified 13 years ago as a potential suspect.
                                  (https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/05/21/29214814-8393059-Goncalo_Amaral_the_Portuguese_ex_investigator_who_was_in_charge_-a-12_1591388312511.jpg)
But Amaral, who was sacked after naming Kate and Jerry as suspects in the disappearance and maintains they were responsible, said Brueckner was 'discarded' after detectives 'found nothing to suggest he took Madeleine'.

That is despite revelations today that Brueckner had a lengthy criminal record including burglary and child sex crimes, lived in a property just three miles from where Maddie went missing, and can be placed in the area on the night in question using mobile phone records.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8393059/Met-sources-blast-lacklustre-approach-Portuguese-colleagues-Madeleine-McCann-breakthrough.html?fbclid=IwAR3pBhHTxph6Gl__Z141nujPsRD53uJamZ0ls-xVgKnpPUhQouNhZKdWckc


Well, GA said there would be a german suspect used as a scapegoat.

The case will be closed, with this suspect and.

He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop



So we will have to see if its as cut and dried as it is now looking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 24, 2020, 12:31:29 PM

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/

did it ever occur to amaarl the pictres may have been added or removed. Where have these pictures come from...it would be interesting to know that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 24, 2020, 12:36:54 PM
I'm confused. Easily done.

Was this guy thoroughly investigated at the time or not?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 24, 2020, 12:39:54 PM
I'm confused. Easily done.

Was this guy thoroughly investigated at the time or not?

not according to waht is in the press...no interview in the files
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 12:41:53 PM
did it ever occur to amaarl the pictres may have been added or removed. Where have these pictures come from...it would be interesting to know that


I'll ask him, shall I....  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 24, 2020, 12:43:34 PM

I'll ask him, shall I....  @)(++(*

I find your post quite childish...not really sure if its worth discussing anything with you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 24, 2020, 12:50:36 PM
I'm confused. Easily done.

Was this guy thoroughly investigated at the time or not?

I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 24, 2020, 01:02:12 PM
I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.

I havent seem any evidence he was looked at by the PJ or Grange. As the PJ did not record his paedophile record even though it was admitted in court...he would not have been a person of interest
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 24, 2020, 01:07:50 PM
I havent seem any evidence he was looked at by the PJ or Grange. As the PJ did not record his paedophile record even though it was admitted in court...he would not have been a person of interest


The Metropolitan Police admitted that Brueckner had been among 600 people previously considered potentially significant in the McCann inquiry.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner-inga-gehricke-missing-suspect-germany-prison-update-a9551421.html



British police failed to identify Christian Brückner as the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a senior Portuguese police officer has alleged.

Carlos Farinha, deputy director of the Policia Judiciaria says that Brückner's name was handed over to the Metropolitan Police in 2012, but they never requested any information on the serial sex offender.

The failings of British, Portuguese and German authorities to pursue the convicted paedophile were laid bare yesterday, as the Met confirmed that Brückner had formed part of their longstanding investigation, but he had not been treated as a suspect until 2017.

On Thursday, it emerged that Portuguese police had investigated Brückner in the aftermath of Madeleine’s disappearance, but no further action was taken....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/06/british-authorities-failed-identify-madeleine-mccann-suspect/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 24, 2020, 01:08:51 PM

The Metropolitan Police admitted that Brueckner had been among 600 people previously considered potentially significant in the McCann inquiry.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner-inga-gehricke-missing-suspect-germany-prison-update-a9551421.html

was his paedophile history disclosed to them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.

600 person's looked at wasn't the figure reportedly to have been, thoroughly bad form of Grange not to have done so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 01:36:35 PM
I find your post quite childish...not really sure if its worth discussing anything with you

Don't then - your opinion means very little to may anyway D
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 01:37:38 PM
I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.

Grange would be as thorough as the information emanating from Portuguese colleagues allowed them to be.  If the Judicial Police had allegedly discarded him after interview - perhaps as a petty fuel thief with no record of burglary or paedophilia despite him confessing to having one apparently - why do you expect Scotland Yard would second guess that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 02:20:22 PM
Grange would be as thorough as the information emanating from Portuguese colleagues allowed them to be.  If the Judicial Police had allegedly discarded him after interview - perhaps as a petty fuel thief with no record of burglary or paedophilia despite him confessing to having one apparently - why do you expect Scotland Yard would second guess that?

Whats the point of Grange in that case,

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and
accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new
investigation.
MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the
evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what
does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work
your way through the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 02:34:10 PM
Whats the point of Grange in that case,

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and
accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new
investigation.
MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the
evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what
does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work
your way through the case.

Many of the personnel involved in Madeleine's reopened case have spent many precious hours poring over the repercussions of Amaral's botched investigation ~ Portuguese ~ British ~ and it now appears to be Germany's turn.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 24, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
Grange would be as thorough as the information emanating from Portuguese colleagues allowed them to be.  If the Judicial Police had allegedly discarded him after interview - perhaps as a petty fuel thief with no record of burglary or paedophilia despite him confessing to having one apparently - why do you expect Scotland Yard would second guess that?

What do you think OG has spent some 12 million on?

It's OG's responsibility to carry out its own due diligence checks on everyone within a certain radius of PDL whether a permanent resident or visiting.

Afaik all modern democracies maintain a register of criminal convictions.

https://www.bundesjustizamt.de/EN/Topics/citizen_services/BZR/BZR_node.html

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/tools-judicial-cooperation/european-criminal-records-information-system-ecris_en

https://dgaj.justica.gov.pt/Registo-criminal/Criminal-record-certificate

https://www.gov.uk/dbs-check-applicant-criminal-record
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 03:27:42 PM
Many of the personnel involved in Madeleine's reopened case have spent many precious hours poring over the repercussions of Amaral's botched investigation ~ Portuguese ~ British ~ and it now appears to be Germany's turn.

Well so much you thinking they was doing something and all working together IMO its a joke

12 million spent on what - they should have gone back to the very beginning when they took over

Looked at it from the beginning with fresh eyes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 24, 2020, 05:12:05 PM
What do you think OG has spent some 12 million on?

It's OG's responsibility to carry out its own due diligence checks on everyone within a certain radius of PDL whether a permanent resident or visiting.

Afaik all modern democracies maintain a register of criminal convictions.

https://www.bundesjustizamt.de/EN/Topics/citizen_services/BZR/BZR_node.html

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/tools-judicial-cooperation/european-criminal-records-information-system-ecris_en

https://dgaj.justica.gov.pt/Registo-criminal/Criminal-record-certificate

https://www.gov.uk/dbs-check-applicant-criminal-record

If this was the case in 2007, why didn't the PJ access the records of foreign nationals on their soil themselves?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 24, 2020, 07:06:12 PM
This is a comment by someone studying Madeleine’s disappearance:

The forensic technician, taking finger prints on the bedroom window:

This whole area should have been covered with a tent, to prevent further contamination!
She had her hair down which was blowing in the breeze!
She had on only ONE glove and that was on her LEFT hand.
She was applying the powder with the brush with her RIGHT UNGLOVED hand.
Her overalls were not fastened.
She did not have a mask on.
She could have blown away a single hair with her breath, (apart from other contamination's)!
Her case was on the BARE ground, allowing further matter to be carried inside the apartment.
She did NOT have her correct footwear on, or even overshoes, thus allowing further contamination.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 24, 2020, 07:35:12 PM
This is a comment by someone studying Madeleine’s disappearance:

The forensic technician, taking finger prints on the bedroom window:

This whole area should have been covered with a tent, to prevent further contamination!
She had her hair down which was blowing in the breeze!
She had on only ONE glove and that was on her LEFT hand.
She was applying the powder with the brush with her RIGHT UNGLOVED hand.
Her overalls were not fastened.
She did not have a mask on.
She could have blown away a single hair with her breath, (apart from other contamination's)!
Her case was on the BARE ground, allowing further matter to be carried inside the apartment.
She did NOT have her correct footwear on, or even overshoes, thus allowing further contamination.
For a break in?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 08:16:44 PM
For a break in?

Or not as the case maybe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 08:43:40 PM
For a break in?
   
           For a missing child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 24, 2020, 09:15:31 PM
   
           For a missing child.
Really? When? Ever?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 24, 2020, 09:19:05 PM
Or not as the case maybe.
Mobilise CSI: Lagos for what, at the time, was a missing person.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 24, 2020, 09:52:35 PM
This is a comment by someone studying Madeleine’s disappearance:

The forensic technician, taking finger prints on the bedroom window:

This whole area should have been covered with a tent, to prevent further contamination!
She had her hair down which was blowing in the breeze!
She had on only ONE glove and that was on her LEFT hand.
She was applying the powder with the brush with her RIGHT UNGLOVED hand.
Her overalls were not fastened.
She did not have a mask on.
She could have blown away a single hair with her breath, (apart from other contamination's)!
Her case was on the BARE ground, allowing further matter to be carried inside the apartment.
She did NOT have her correct footwear on, or even overshoes, thus allowing further contamination.

I feel a bit sorry for that lady who seems to have taken most of the heat over the forensics. Maybe there wasn't enough forensic gear?

I guess they did what they could with what they had, but - objectively - it was hardly a thorough sweep. Not all their fault, either. By the time they arrived, several people had been in and out of there, including GNR dog paw prints all over the place as well.

Not the GNR's fault, either. There was no manual at the time for first responders.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 24, 2020, 11:21:41 PM
For anyone interested there is a full translation of Amaral's TVI interview over on the Textusa blog.
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21.html
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21_24.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 24, 2020, 11:24:46 PM
She certainly found Dianne Webster's prints on the shutters and Gerry claimed to have lifted them so how many prints were found on the shutters?

The group tampered with crucial evidence. If neither of them touched the shutters maybe there would be no prints found like on the window!

There had to be prints on them to indicate a stranger but that doesn't mean any stranger touched them. That is tampered evidence by the group and not the PJ!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 25, 2020, 12:02:35 AM
For anyone interested there is a full translation of Amaral's TVI interview over on the Textusa blog.
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21.html
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21_24.html

GA: Nowadays there are new techniques for, for analysing and, and... for... and even re-analyse what has been examined. If there is enough remnant, it is possible to reach other conclusions. I remind that in the vehicle rented by the couple there are hairs that were returned that is said that by the colouring it’s from the missing girl's, but as they have no root, they are unable to dee… to determine the DNA. It is known that there are laboratories that can do this...

JAC: Now...

GA: …so Germans who have money can easily solve this mystery.


Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 25, 2020, 12:21:03 AM
GA: Nowadays there are new techniques for, for analysing and, and... for... and even re-analyse what has been examined. If there is enough remnant, it is possible to reach other conclusions. I remind that in the vehicle rented by the couple there are hairs that were returned that is said that by the colouring it’s from the missing girl's, but as they have no root, they are unable to dee… to determine the DNA. It is known that there are laboratories that can do this...

JAC: Now...

GA: …so Germans who have money can easily solve this mystery.


Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

The only problem with just hairs is transference can be argued.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 25, 2020, 07:05:30 AM
She certainly found Dianne Webster's prints on the shutters and Gerry claimed to have lifted them so how many prints were found on the shutters?

The group tampered with crucial evidence. If neither of them touched the shutters maybe there would be no prints found like on the window!

There had to be prints on them to indicate a stranger but that doesn't mean any stranger touched them. That is tampered evidence by the group and not the PJ!

Where were Diane's prints identified in the report?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 25, 2020, 08:52:52 PM
The only problem with just hairs is transference can be argued.

Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 25, 2020, 08:57:54 PM
Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

Transference can still not be absolutely ruled out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 26, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

What makes you think that those objects were sent in from Portugal?

SJM/1 was the pillowcase from Rothley, for example.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 26, 2020, 10:17:05 AM
Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm


How would Madeleine's hair be in the rental vehicle 24 days after her disappearance.   You are surely not suggesting she was put uncovered in the boot and that hairs fell from her head?   Can you imagine what state her body would be in after 24 days?   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 26, 2020, 11:01:23 AM

How would Madeleine's hair be in the rental vehicle 24 days after her disappearance.   You are surely not suggesting she was put uncovered in the boot and that hairs fell from her head?   Can you imagine what state her body would be in after 24 days?

Roll in Amaral's frozen theory... as the "only explanation" for the alleged reports of gruesome findings of "100%" findings of blood and "tufts of hair" that somehow leaked out of those pesky PJ windows into the waiting arms of tabloids with fistfuls of euros.... and all within the context of supposed PT judicial secrecy.

Whether any of this was actually true or not didn't seem to matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 26, 2020, 12:44:15 PM
Transference can still not be absolutely ruled out.

You're not taking the proverbial, by any chance?

Yes, transference can always be an issue.

However, as it happens, the pillow-case in question was from her bed in Rothley.

They were trying to establish a refence sample of her DNA profile at the time (i.e. her identity). That's preliminary to establishing whether or not she was a victim of a crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 26, 2020, 04:28:07 PM

How would Madeleine's hair be in the rental vehicle 24 days after her disappearance.   You are surely not suggesting she was put uncovered in the boot and that hairs fell from her head?   Can you imagine what state her body would be in after 24 days?

That depends how and where it was stored.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 26, 2020, 07:04:55 PM
.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 26, 2020, 07:46:35 PM
.

thats great...why havent they solved it then....he obvioulsy doesnt know what hes talking about
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 27, 2020, 12:29:56 AM
You're not taking the proverbial, by any chance?

Yes, transference can always be an issue.

However, as it happens, the pillow-case in question was from her bed in Rothley.

They were trying to establish a refence sample of her DNA profile at the time (i.e. her identity). That's preliminary to establishing whether or not she was a victim of a crime.

I’m sorry I’ve no idea what you mean by taking the proverbial ?

Transference, from anything carried in the car, is always an issue.

I wasn’t talking about the pillow case and I certainly don’t need to be informed of its purpose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 27, 2020, 12:45:28 AM
thats great...why havent they solved it then....he obvioulsy doesnt know what hes talking about

Oh I think he knew alright … and he was careful with words.

Do you think that he was trying to undermine the OG findings by pre-empting them ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 27, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
That depends how and where it was stored.

Really?  If the wrapped Madeleine's body up would depend on where it was stored?    Such as?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 02:24:56 PM
Really?  If the wrapped Madeleine's body up would depend on where it was stored?    Such as?

A body stored in a freezer wouldn't be in a poor condition.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 27, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
A body stored in a freezer wouldn't be in a poor condition.


What freezer would that be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

What freezer would that be?
If I could answer that it wouldn't be on an internet forum!

Smithman could have handed over the body to a third party with access to a freezer in a nearby property, would be one speculative made up scenario. Or Smithman himself may have had access to a property nearby with a freezer for example. Pure speculation of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 27, 2020, 02:58:03 PM

What freezer would that be?

Was it the one The PJ said Joana Cipriano's body was stored in, or was it the one Amaral said Madeleine's body was stored in?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 03:21:20 PM
Was it the one The PJ said Joana Cipriano's body was stored in, or was it the one Amaral said Madeleine's body was stored in?

On the latter I believe he was speculating since I can't think of any other method of concealment that would fit with Amaral's theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 03:25:36 PM
Yes indeed - it was a line of investigation. He never stated it as fact, Eleanor.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-apartment-freezer-goncalo-amaral-maddie-podcast/4404d9d1-86fa-4c0d-b87d-8ce086f6a3b3

...."Several months after Madeleine McCann vanished Portuguese police were trying to find a mystery apartment where the missing girl's body could have been hidden in a freezer, according to the detective who once led the 2007 investigation.
Speaking on episode 10 of Maddie, nine.com.au's podcast series about Madeleine's disappearance, Goncalo Amaral described a line of inquiry his team was following when he was abruptly removed from the case, in October 2007.
"The team was looking for an apartment," Mr Amaral said, explaining police had been tipped off about the possible unusual development.".
....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 27, 2020, 03:28:31 PM
On the latter I believe he was speculating since I can't think of any other method of concealment that would fit with Amaral's theory.

The same Theory, in fact.  Well, it worked the first time so why not try it again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 27, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
The same Theory, in fact.  Well, it worked the first time so why not try it again.

Deleted
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 27, 2020, 06:19:14 PM
On the latter I believe he was speculating since I can't think of any other method of concealment that would fit with Amaral's theory.

Have you forgotten Amarals theory that Madeleines body was put in the coffin of a woman waiting to be cremated. 
($^6  %77*

IIRC the coffin was in the church where The McCanns prayed. 

So bizarre and the gullible masses swallowed it hook, line and sinker
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 27, 2020, 08:13:34 PM
.

I've just watched a transcript of this interview and amaral seems to be backtracking quite a bit on his  theory.  He. Seems to be saying it wasn't his theory just a description of the investigation at that time...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 27, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
I've just watched a transcript of this interview and amaral seems to be backtracking quite a bit on his  theory.  He. Seems to be saying it wasn't his theory just a description of the investigation at that time...
Just typical!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Davel on June 27, 2020, 08:29:36 PM

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 08:35:18 PM
Have you forgotten Amarals theory that Madeleines body was put in the coffin of a woman waiting to be cremated. 
($^6  %77*

IIRC the coffin was in the church where The McCanns prayed. 

So bizarre and the gullible masses swallowed it hook, line and sinker

And that wouldn't fit with his suggestion  they might have moved the body in the hire car later.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
And that wouldn't fit with his suggestion  they might have moved the body in the hire car later.
That depends when the cremation was done.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 12:24:55 AM
That depends when the cremation was done.

I don’t think a coffin would fit in the Renault hire car... and having got a body in a coffin no-one is then going to take it out again!!!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 12:56:02 AM
I don’t think a coffin would fit in the Renault hire car... and having got a body in a coffin no-one is then going to take it out again!!!!
The coffin was already at the church.  The McCanns just need to bring the body of whoever they want to get rid of and put it in the coffin along with the deceased lady.

That is how I pictured it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 01:39:10 AM
The coffin was already at the church.  The McCanns just need to bring the body of whoever they want to get rid of and put it in the coffin along with the deceased lady.

That is how I pictured it.

Yeah I know but how would that scenario fit with Eddie and Keela’s alerts at the hire car?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 01:45:52 AM
Yeah I know but how would that scenario fit with Eddie and Keela’s alerts at the hire car?
Goncalo thought he had evidence of a body thawing in the back of the hire car.
Title: Re: Gon